"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002206a4ca8d688f46b6b106fa994e376bd3\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 5 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cb0d860128648f383ea153a45bed729\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 5 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6d9e31072c24ab593fe271a80a6d4e4\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a6b794f9db3433d849ce8b2e082a841\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd10f5067fc48c4a2b500bbf9ee3f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd10f5067fc48c4a2b500bbf9ee3f46\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te Ku\u012Bni, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227942de48043941468632ef72916e90ba\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222cb29bb9ff3f43ae8605b4e030b9f1c8\u0022\u003EMembers\u2019 Notice of Motion No. 1\u2014Amendment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00226d0acb3e61f14b6d885cd3b040674188\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d0acb3e61f14b6d885cd3b040674188\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to delete the word \u201Cpossible\u201D from members\u2019 notice of motion No. 1, in my name, to read: That this House is gravely concerned about the severe human rights abuses taking place against Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and that it call on the Government to work with the United Nations, international partners, and to work with all relevant instruments of international law to bring these abuses to an end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022378f173cef554995af51b7b307a7f135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022378f173cef554995af51b7b307a7f135\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d419477adc8492ba1a32a1d7697ccd6\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d1de0c9c4a54be7b55cee276b78d988\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222edd19b5053447d5a0c815a65a791c25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222edd19b5053447d5a0c815a65a791c25\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No papers or select committee reports have been presented, no bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EPetitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227cc6cfaa6d014afd878fe0424c726d10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cc6cfaa6d014afd878fe0424c726d10\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Pete McDonald requesting that the House ask Land Information New Zealand and the New Zealand Walking Access Commission to redesign the track symbols used on New Zealand\u2019s Topo50 maps \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Mary Coupe requesting that the House pass legislation to reduce the limits for collecting sea life currently set under the Fisheries Act 1996.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00226c1001095aa54a2aa0533c4212735ea3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c1001095aa54a2aa0533c4212735ea3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002288f7743421694c97a49970fcbf131539\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ff06772b83248ddbec9cce3a708035c\u0022\u003EWritten Questions\u2014Timeliness of Replies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e9911c5f9a54134a7166a50d3917778\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e9911c5f9a54134a7166a50d3917778\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members have raised with me the timeliness of replies to written questions. After discussions with the Business Committee yesterday, I have agreed to rule on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIncreasingly, Ministers are proactively releasing papers. This should greatly help public access to information. It has the potential to save time for members and to reduce the number of written questions lodged to seek routine information and I encourage it. There have been two main concerns raised with me. The first is that references by a Minister to information being online have not always been specific enough to assist in the location of the information. I would remind members of Speaker\u2019s ruling 194/5, which states that if a Minister chooses to reply by directing a member to information already available, it must be done with some particularity. It is not acceptable to simply state that the information has already been released. Rather, the Minister should provide a sufficiently detailed answer to enable the member to directly locate the information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe other concern is the timeliness of proactive information releases. If information is not released in a timely way, it causes unreasonable delays to members receiving substantive replies to their written questions. Under Standing Orders [392(4)], members are entitled to receive a reply to a written question within six working days. It is not reasonable for them to have to wait much longer than that for a proactive release of information. Therefore, I am ruling that if the information requested in a written question will not be made available for two weeks or more, the Minister must provide a substantive reply to the written question rather than refer the member to information that will be released in the future. Where Ministers do refer a member to information available elsewhere, they must provide specific details to assist in locating it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI will continue to review the matter with the Business Committee periodically to see whether things improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022303662da10834b87904a92be16ac1685\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a3aff9962184d498b62be913bbe932b\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u2014Transfer of Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u00229dd61dde74f44f0d8610aef61e12e0bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dd61dde74f44f0d8610aef61e12e0bc\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek clarification on the transfer of questions from the Prime Minister to her Ministers. I also seek leave of the House to transfer my question back to the Prime Minister, with the original wording as lodged, to ask for her views on this important take [issue].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9e4245dc15245bca838b8ba94361215\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9e4245dc15245bca838b8ba94361215\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising it. I thank him for giving notice to me of the fact that he was going to raise it. There are, I think, two relevant Speakers\u2019 rulings. The first I\u2019ll refer him to is Speakers\u2019 ruling 161/1, which makes it clear that with very limited exceptions it is in the power of the Government to transfer questions to the Minister they think is appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe second Speaker\u2019s ruling I will refer the member to is 160/1, and that is that Speakers have previously ruled that they won\u2019t put leave to transfer questions back, because the decision has already been made by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225aaedc40be364a3ea1990af65673eb42\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022194371821cc84160b7a581036e2d86aa\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002235bf0e1620c34e168b3a7e5abab00548\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235bf0e1620c34e168b3a7e5abab00548\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00226b884ce21d2b41c883a2898feaeb29a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b884ce21d2b41c883a2898feaeb29a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by the further drop in the unemployment rate down to 4.7 percent. The figures released today show not only a drop in our overall unemployment rate and an increase in employment but an increase in women\u2019s employment, with an additional 14,000 more women in work compared to last quarter\u2014not just a number. This builds on our March benefit quarterly statistics, which showed a record number of people have come off benefit, with nearly 33,000 entering paid work. These numbers are evidence that our economic plan is working and that the Government\u2019s employment investments are making a real difference in the lives of New Zealanders, including the expansion of the Flexi-wage to support more people into work, which has already had 1,600 placements in its first six weeks; our Apprenticeship Boost scheme to help employers retain apprentices, which has already benefited over 22,000 apprentices; and our free trades training, which has benefited 106,000. I could well go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229962d8aac60f43ae9cd1f8a462773edc\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was her health Minister correct when he said yesterday that there are two vetoes in the proposed health restructuring; if so, what are those two vetoes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226787ce109e514c9388fc9849982fd030\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe that I would agree with the characterisation of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290eea811703f4f05ab5449aed33e86ca\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: He said it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c489f109f5724d39b7fdb2792da9985d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not agree with the characterisation the member has continuously put to this House. As we have said in answers yesterday, of course the intention is that a Government would set health priorities; that Health New Zealand, alongside the M\u0101ori Health Authority, would then establish national health plans to ensure the delivery of those priorities. Without having that equal footing in approving the way those health plans would work, you essentially just maintain the status quo, which is the idea of consultation, and we are trying to move beyond that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa841855bc07435488c4b635ec688102\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So is there a veto power or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5258cd7169d45419e41b30900ae4cd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, yes, there is a requirement that we reach agreement between Health New Zealand and the M\u0101ori Health Authority on the delivery of those health priorities. Again, just in the same way that K\u014Dhanga Reo determines how they deliver their services and Wh\u0101nau Ora determines how they deliver theirs. This is a response to the fact that our system as it stands has not worked well. It does not remove the ability of the Government of the day to set health priorities, but this will, we hope, enhance the way that we deliver those services on behalf of all New Zealanders, including our Treaty partner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022708b384507a04a3fa68b36441eddbc09\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So what mechanism is she putting in place, or has she put in place, to deal with a situation where the M\u0101ori Health Authority wishes to veto a decision of the national health agency\u2014or whatever name it\u2019s called\u2014when there is no agreement? What\u2019s she going to do about the veto power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224620ce697dc74badac7eb2127b0948bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I would point out that this is in relation to decisions that will affect M\u0101ori health provision, so I think this idea that somehow it\u2019s completely detached or devoid from the delivery of actual services\u2014there will be issues where, of course, we have said that the M\u0101ori Health Authority will be involved in direct commissioning, so you\u2019ll have those priorities set nationally. There might be specific services that they will commission. However, there will be other areas where you are providing a service across the board\u2014say, it might be national cancer screening\u2014where we will be doing general population, and we do need to ensure that the M\u0101ori Health Authority is having a view and a say in the delivery of those services for M\u0101ori, because we haven\u2019t done that to date and we haven\u2019t reached M\u0101ori as a result to date. So some of the things we\u2019re working through is if we do reach an impasse\u2014which I, frankly, don\u2019t believe we often will\u2014we have mechanisms to resolve those issues. That\u2019s part of the work that our transition agencies continue to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de158f0b28740869c72697b26a86fb9\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So if she\u2019s so concerned about using the term \u201Cveto\u201D, then why is it in the health Cabinet paper that her Minister took to Cabinet, and why did he say yesterday there are two vetoes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3bc4542cf4414f8ec0939784ebf852\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: My question is why can the member not say the word \u201Cpartnership\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207881130df15498eab7050b06b466a63\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What commitments has she made to iwi and the Labour M\u0101ori caucus on fresh water and resource management changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a5cd556c26481086898dff36b5c7c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Simply that we\u2019ll try and work together to resolve an issue that has sat on the table and languished and that her previous Government was unable to resolve, and that we have undertaken that we\u2019ll keep up the dialogue to see if we can work through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4a6c682ca024e5e86fd55d845697576\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So when will she start the dialogue with every other New Zealander on these very important issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae4b26f137d4b81ae539d77062650c4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I would push back on this idea that we haven\u2019t had good, robust debate around water use in New Zealand over a number of years. I remember it being a particular subject of interest in an election not so long ago, called 2017. Not all of our ideas were at that time successful, but that debate has long been held in New Zealand. It is not new, and everyone has a voice in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0ef970add145589eb0a69f3aac4ff0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So when is she going to tell the New Zealand public exactly what commitment she has advised Cabinet about when she made that commitment to the Labour M\u0101ori caucus and the collective referred to in her Government\u2019s Cabinet paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31fe1f6d9df4335b3b0c644fd55ea89\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019m not entirely clear on the member\u2019s question. Could you please re-ask?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022466c2ed840b941bea5d9c802a891d03b\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. So when is she going to tell the New Zealand public exactly what is the commitment that she made to the Labour M\u0101ori caucus and the collective referred to in her Government\u2019s Cabinet paper on the meeting around fresh water and resource management control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0339d3380ea4b26bff744aaa2350ccb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly what I said in my first answer: that this issue has been before us for a number of years. No one has been able to resolve it. In fact, some haven\u2019t attempted to. Our commitment is to work together. I say publicly what I say privately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a19f47ef9d45dbac23a2e61d27873d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019m wondering why two P\u0101keh\u0101 women are talking about M\u0101ori issues when they\u2019re not talking to M\u0101ori themselves. There\u2019s a room full of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f198bbc3004d6e974b878928ec9378\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the one thing that I\u2019m not going to take responsibility for is the member\u2019s wondering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232500230db714cc2a1712c0e45bc5b9d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out transferring full or partial governance of the foreshore and seabed to M\u0101ori while she is Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d630e1385b0f41939b762ff642b8b0ee\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We commit to upholding the legislation that\u2019s already in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2eefe114ae4fd8b9fa6a4557d8cafe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 2, Barbara Edmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b957b5ca56774c3dbf5a007be8f5a19a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b957b5ca56774c3dbf5a007be8f5a19a\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba2a06974c345daa8507bdcbcb0b7cc\u0022\u003EHon Aupito William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Bring back Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1a2f11235f4465aac91bd917492d62\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceb63542b2d4fc8a11262426a2fdc78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Barbara Edmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a7d7fe462a4c5684ffaf951663663d\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Finance: what recent reports has he seen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f1a7d6fec7e42eaba9f77173964f17d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry, I am going to interrupt. I am going to require the Hon Aupito William Sio to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d0760b9f4f14d06b2d0147bcd4105ac\u0022\u003EHon Aupito William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a57e626e4f44fd09d56a0042fda3cb1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b68cae41d94b8a8e06c82e72873fc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b68cae41d94b8a8e06c82e72873fc7\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022102c018d9109413da42cfaca2b44ae95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022102c018d9109413da42cfaca2b44ae95\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today, Statistics New Zealand released the job figures for the March 2021 quarter. The data showed the unemployment rate dropped, again, to 4.7 percent, from 4.9 percent in December, with 5,000 fewer people classed as unemployed over the quarter. The unemployment rate is now the same as it was in September 2017. Stats New Zealand said the economy continued to add jobs at the start of the year, with people in employment up 15,000 over the March quarter from December. This meant people in employment is up by 32,000 since the September 2020 quarter and it highlights the strength of the economy under the Government\u2019s recovery and jobs plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4e52689b88b42e0bc49a0a6bd69c72d\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What reactions has he seen to the positive jobs data? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48d5f1b26c049e39f58643686db8a83\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The consensus among economists had been that the unemployment rate would stay at 4.9 percent. The result is also well below Treasury\u2019s forecast at the half-year update in December, which had unemployment to be 6.5 percent in the March 2021 quarter. In their review of the data, ANZ\u2019s economists said New Zealand\u2019s labour market was \u201Cundeniably stronger\u201D, and that the employment numbers demonstrated \u201Cthe remarkable resilience of the New Zealand economy and the success of the Government\u2019s COVID response at keeping workers connected with jobs\u201D. The success of that response can be seen in the data for the Auckland region, which during this quarter was affected by alert level 3 restrictions. Employment in the Auckland region hit a record high during the March quarter. This shows that the Government\u2019s focus on protecting jobs and businesses with the wage subsidy and resurgence support payment continues to be the right approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb39bbad7ebd4ac7a9ac42063f39ca64\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What other recent reports has he seen on the stability of the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4c43625be84f79917e8ec807735c69\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Today, the Reserve Bank released its May Financial Stability Report. The Reserve Bank says its assessment shows \u201CNew Zealand has coped with the COVID-19 pandemic better than initially feared,\u201D. The report said that \u201CThe spread of COVID-19 in New Zealand has been supressed by border restrictions, periodic Alert Level changes, and an effective public health response.\u201D The bank added that \u201CBusiness activity has been able to recover, and confidence in the economic outlook has increased.\u201D The report also warned that some vulnerabilities and risks do remain, and\u2014I\u2019ll quote\u2014\u201CNew Zealand\u2019s economic prospects ultimately depend on the global containment of the pandemic and on the recovery of trading-partner economies.\u201D That\u2019s why it\u2019s important for the Government to continue supporting the economy with our investments: to secure the recovery while tackling long-term issues like housing affordability, which have built up over decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222efbb24922ec4309bf97236a27d9a364\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002276cdd8aba3894692a5359d14c9b4260a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276cdd8aba3894692a5359d14c9b4260a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce6003d19d2f4485b998e7f6f00de1da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce6003d19d2f4485b998e7f6f00de1da\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes\u2014in particular, our recent announcement to reform the healthcare system to make it more accessible for all New Zealanders. The changes have been informed by the Health and Disability System Review, which found our health system was under stress and that greater emphasis on primary healthcare had the greatest potential to improve New Zealanders\u2019 health. As the Minister of Health said at the announcement, the reforms will mean that for the first time we will have a truly national health system; the kind of treatment people get will no longer be determined by where they live. The reforms will help implement the Government healthcare strategies and visions that include all DHBs being replaced by one national organisation\u2014Health New Zealand\u2014a new M\u0101ori health authority, which will have the power to commission health services, monitor the state of M\u0101ori health, and develop policy; and the creation of a new public health agency; and, of course, strengthening the Ministry of Health\u2019s role to monitor performance and advise Government. In my view, this will improve the health of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec6cf722acc648918a3ad0bbd36c240a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her Government\u2019s policy of giving preference to M\u0101ori businesses through procurement; if so, will her Government also give preference to other demographics under-represented in business ownership\u2014for example, women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f175a59c5804f609452a53e856b7b71\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, just on that, the member has raised the issue of businesses\u2014particularly, I would say, the example of women, but indigenous business owners and operators\u2014and what we can do to increase participation, access, and growth of those businesses. It\u2019s actually been a part of our export strategy, as a Government, and been part of some of the trade negotiations we\u2019ve had with other countries. We\u2019re not alone in the work we\u2019re doing. In fact, around procurement policy, we modelled what we\u2019ve done on procurement on Australia, and, likewise, have looked to the experiences of the Canadians, where they\u2019re using both trade instruments and procurement to try and see a boost in the growth of indigenous and women and small business generally in their representation in procurement and trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea6a1fc776d4bc1ba158290345608a1\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If a M\u0101ori-owned business, a Pacific-owned business, and a Chinese-owned business all submit equivalent bids for a Government contract, how will her Government decide who to award it to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b58075222014f32a84989887cc0cf1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, we have a range of procurement guidelines, processes, and policies, which I have an expectation that all departments will make sure that they are applying in the work that they do. Rather than go on to hypotheticals, probably the best thing I can point the member to is a process that\u2019s being adopted by Auckland Council. As part of the Southern Initiative, they undertook some very similar work, and, again, we looked at the way they had operated a similar policy. It has led to really positive outcomes. They\u2019ve seen a spread of a diversity in a number of businesses they\u2019re engaging with. It\u2019s particularly supported small to medium sized enterprises, and it\u2019s seen the growth of employment opportunities within the region. Again, we\u2019re not doing this from a starting base of nothing. Others are leading on this. We have learnt from it. In our view, it means that we\u2019ll be able to support greater representation of both small business, M\u0101ori business, and others, in procurement policy where they\u2019ve previously been excluded for a number of reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e0aa6db60e419eba06a14e33af5097\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government compromise on quality or cost when it procures goods and services from M\u0101ori business, and if it would, what on earth does that say about this Government\u2019s attitude to M\u0101ori? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291228b852d18458aa3b82dc0f0a9b736\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion that\u2019s made in that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997930a0c833408fb050b27873f0f94b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We\u2019ve had an unusual situation now where we had interjection during an ACT question from a number of members, and as a result of that, I will give ACT three additional questions, which they can use this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211b8a7a1f81b4bb0bef8f77d75fa6912\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is it not paternalistic to provide a separate process for M\u0101ori-owned businesses than any other business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff2bdefcfffc45068d27b57b857130cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274ef4e5929d4e40a421aa7bbc1ee767\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t the Government\u2019s goal simply to procure quality goods and services at reasonable prices when it buys on behalf of taxpayers regardless of who is selling them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f3e4fbdbfe4069b34eb558ff31664e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That, of course, is one of the goals of procurement policy as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3eac5e436d042cabe917b9c503ca053\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u00224687dd2c7b234df09b63a0bf11babf40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224687dd2c7b234df09b63a0bf11babf40\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What progress, if any, has been made on accelerating the build of public housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221bb34b52460147eaaa98e5399989d2f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bb34b52460147eaaa98e5399989d2f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E We are on track to deliver on our promise of over 18,000 new housing\u2014public and transitional\u2014places by the end of 2024. We now have a fully funded public house building programme right through to 2024. To date, since we took office, we have delivered 7,631 net new places, of which 5,848 are brand-new builds. I am focused on rebuilding the institutional muscle memory of the State to provide public housing at a scale we have not seen in decades, as K\u0101inga Ora is now well positioned to continue this momentum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022927087bf53844516b8c0adfaac1ec54d\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: Are there instances where public houses are bought in from the private market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3159ac5bf4a4962912babfee662364a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The practice of buying in more houses than we are building that had been developed over the previous decade needed to stop, and we have done that. Since we took office, we\u2019ve seen the proportion of houses bought in from the private market drastically reduce. For example, in 2012, 63 percent of all new State houses were buy-ins. This compares to an average around 23 percent under this Government. In limited circumstances we continue to buy in houses where there is a clear requirement, such as to address urgent demand in locations where stock is limited or where a property is strategically located and beneficial to acquire. We expect the proportion of buy-ins to continue to decline as our public house build programme ramps up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365d7db6937d474f9ac21f206457f407\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: Are there instances under this Government where K\u0101inga Ora sells houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab252f1768354d788411cef66b5ea299\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government came in with a policy to stop the mass sell-off of State houses, and that is exactly what we did. However, as we\u2019ve stated numerous times, there will always be instances where there is a need for K\u0101inga Ora to sell houses. These reasons include where it may be the wrong house in the wrong place\u2014where it does not match demand in that area and it is surplus to requirements. To give perspective, the number of State houses sold between November 2017 and January 2021 was 190, compared with 1,300 sold between 2014 and 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50dbaece6714199bb28e1e1fa6d43e8\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm there are currently 22,803 New Zealanders on the social housing register, and will she seek assistance from the deliverology unit to help address this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230799486f72b43ecbef7bc8d71cb03cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes, I can confirm there are 22,000 people on the State housing register. This is largely the result of a decade of inaction from that member\u2019s party when they were in Government\u2014not only their failure to build houses but the fact that they ended up with 1,500 fewer public houses than they started Government with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c67a87f74ab4c41ba128bdf291a226b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Deputy Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022957ce8e25db44385b23d11215008ac53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022957ce8e25db44385b23d11215008ac53\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Deputy Prime Minister: Which critical initiatives will the implementation unit that he will lead be tasked with monitoring, and why is it only being established more than 42 months after this Government was formed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022845acb323edb4433b82f2b41df92c06c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022845acb323edb4433b82f2b41df92c06c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I do note for the member that this Government was sworn in on 6 November 2020, some six months ago. The focus of the unit will be on programmes and projects funded out of the COVID Response and Recovery Fund, infrastructure, and other key Government priorities. The final list of programmes will be finalised after discussion with the head of the unit, who will shortly be appointed. To the second part of the question, we have set up the implementation unit because of our large investment in the COVID recovery, the number of multi-agency programmes in our response, and because it is international best practice to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecba875a363041ed8e3cb64e5b71acaa\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Will the implementation unit have the authority to tell the CEO of a Government entity what to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227052b0806df94da79ab859bbf240ea0b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The implementation unit changes nothing about the Public Finance Act or the Public Service Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224c608519e254cbbab059a67a7f1889a\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Where will ultimate responsibility for the delivery of key Government projects lie: with the responsible portfolio Minister or with the Minister responsible for the implementation unit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228655f9cb4e644455b912141af7445234\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my last answer, nothing changes in terms of the Public Service Act, the Public Finance Act, or, indeed, the Cabinet Manual. Ministers remain responsible for their portfolios; chief executives remain responsible for their agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccfdca95e1e148539f7cec58a5089a9f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Who will have responsibility for implementing the list of projects on which the implementation project will work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a079b6b4200b43bdbb1d16b50eedd17a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that the member will be delighted to learn that the implementation unit\u2019s programme of work will be subject to the Official Information Act (OIA) and will be released. I find it interesting that the members opposite have such an aversion to the implementation of Government programmes, but we learnt that by what they did in the nine years they were in office, when they failed to implement across a range of portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5d3fcfd8964858a9b041efc18796bc\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister reassure this House and New Zealanders that if we were to make such Official Information Act requests, we would not discover that this implementation unit had had a baby and spawned an implementation unit within an implementation unit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b164e7fae44b09892efec0271d22fe\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be able to OIA to his heart\u2019s content. He also might like to look around the world and see one of the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s favourite politicians, Boris Johnson, working very closely on a very, very similar idea right now\u2014international best practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ce80a44b34048b1b70c71853ee176f0\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government need an implementation unit when 10,000 more bureaucrats have been employed since it came to office in 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1d07c5903343a9b3c0469c6374250b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my primary answer, the $50 billion that was put in through the COVID Response and Recovery Fund is the largest investment that we have seen in the provision of services to the New Zealand public. It includes a wide range of programmes where we have multiple agencies, outside bodies involved. All of those things represent a significant shift in the way the Government is working, and this unit will support the delivery of those programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0ce50357ea43c1815ff0aeef9c9919\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Would an implementation unit have led to the Government actually delivering on its promises like KiwiBuild or the light rail project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227137f87346440678e940bfc23b7bb92\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very proud of the record, which today in the House was talked about, where unemployment finds its way to 4.7 percent, where we\u2019ve delivered a wage subsidy scheme, where we\u2019ve supported small businesses. I am extremely proud of the delivery of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022643f47b26adf48a6a86e5f1575a034a8\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The question was clearly about light rail and KiwiBuild; they weren\u2019t addressed at all by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd481c84354344f7af837314b4c76b15\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a very fair point of order. I\u2019ll invite the Deputy Prime Minister to have another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a32c0cd73184086bd5d7c1f3c8f99c9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am extremely proud of the Government\u2019s delivery and the record that we have. I have already said what the projects will be that we\u2019ll focus on. We are looking forwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa69281a82cc405ea3cf79a30ad0a544\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfd17ea4faec48549112a27f90be7242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfd17ea4faec48549112a27f90be7242\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: What pay and employment relations expectations has the Government set out for the public sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ed06013d30490798fce6461d56c2e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ed06013d30490798fce6461d56c2e9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E Last year, the Public Service Commissioner issued guidance to Public Service agencies asking them to have nil or minimal pay increases for public servants until June of this year. Today, the Public Service Commissioner is updating that guidance to make it clear that pay restraint will need to continue to be exercised across the Public Service for the next three years. The updated guidance will continue to mean that there should be no pay increases for those earning over $100,000 and senior leaders within the Public Service. Any increases should be targeted to those lower-paid public servants, largely those earning below $60,000 a year, who account for about 25 percent of the public sector. We want those on the lower wages to be the focus of any increases in pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff985ae819e245ffbdb00817c8c51801\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How would the Minister respond to concerns about this pay restraint raised by the Public Service Association?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b5cb27fdb842b688215064f028b82c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This is ultimately about prioritising Government spending. I would say to the Public Service Association that we\u2019ll continue to work closely with them on issues around gender and ethnic pay gaps, on issues of pay parity, and on issues around terms and conditions, as we have been doing over the last three years, where we\u2019re making progress and we know more progress is required. I\u2019d also say to them that the guidance is consistent with the decision last year by the Remuneration Authority that Ministers and MPs would not be getting any pay rises for the next three years because of COVID-19 and the decision by the Public Service Commissioner, who sets the pay of Public Service chief executives, who will also not be increasing any of their pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264cefa7d6441488989eac15dd6ae1b93\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What other expectations has the Government set out for the Public Service workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df24b848ae2146bcaf0c25fa3bea59e9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We want the Public Service to use modern, progressive employment practices, to be a good place to work. We also want a productive unified workforce which is grounded in the spirit of service. To achieve these goals, we\u2019ve set four key workforce priorities for the Public Service: employ people fairly, equitably, and in a way that allows them to live good lives and participate in the economy; work collaboratively with unions and other groups to achieve those shared goals; create an inclusive environment for all workers with the aim of achieving a diverse workforce; and achieve all of those goals within the fiscal context of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9f92b12819b48679bf69ac306644a56\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022954661e4872c437b9109e5ef66e04458\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022954661e4872c437b9109e5ef66e04458\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: What influence, if any, did the He Puapua report have on the contents of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: Next Steps for a Declaration Plan \u2013 lodging Cabinet paper and draft talking points briefing paper that he received last month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002225660eb58300407eb092cfca39734f41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225660eb58300407eb092cfca39734f41\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E The next steps to develop a national declaration plan need to be considered by Cabinet. I\u2019m in the process of submitting my proposals for the next steps. To that end, I received the draft Cabinet paper on 7 April 2021 outlining proposed next steps. Part of the draft Cabinet paper includes a summary of He Puapua. He Puapua is one of several elements that fed into the draft Cabinet paper, alongside the guidance provided by the Expert Mechanism on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples on the development of a declaration plan and Cabinet-agreed guidelines on M\u0101ori Crown engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8469dc4e754f63887a11d14dff3a1c\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Which specific Ministers has he consulted with regarding the draft Cabinet paper on the implementation plan for a declaration on the rights of indigenous people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2bb9c0a018469ab800560acbf6a2cc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a process that I\u2019m engaging in now. I haven\u2019t consulted with any Ministers at this stage\u2014it\u2019s a paper that will be going around all Cabinet Ministers\u2014other than speaking with the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c793c981842245a0adeea15117296291\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What specific issues did he discuss in relation to the Cabinet paper on indigenous people in his recent meetings with the declaration working group and Independent Monitoring Mechanism group for He Puapua and the declaration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232c2aed5859a41ac8dcaae0d880b2144\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The independent group who put together He Puapua gave me an overview of their work. They put out some of their aspirations, they asked questions about when recommendations would be going to Cabinet, and we had a very good k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7f530ad9ed403a928096255ccfbbfd\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What should be guiding the development of a declaration plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af9bd4622bac41129d902373de70dcf0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Expert Mechanism on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples visited Aotearoa in April 2019 and provided some helpful guidelines and emphasised the point that any declaration plan should be developed in partnership with M\u0101ori. This aligns with Cabinet-agreed guidelines on M\u0101ori Crown engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242622985ffc1439389c004d67ced769c\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What is the approach outlined in He Puapua for developing a declaration plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223239db8b8f3048ae825459a0c2767437\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Let me be clear that He Puapua is not the draft national declaration plan that the National Party signed up to. The report recommended a two-step engagement process, robust monitoring over any plan that was to be developed, and ministerial oversight and arrangements for partnership with M\u0101ori on the development of the plan. Decisions on the next steps for the development of a national declaration plan, including on targeted and public engagement, are currently under consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d27a2e79bdf476cb5b1071ec5c6dffe\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Do any of the mentioned documents or his meetings discuss the possibility of creating separate M\u0101ori processes and veto powers over public policy, like the recently announced M\u0101ori Health Authority\u2014for instance, over the Resource Management Act or water allocation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bba5c5ef89a4db4a1ccec4c92327d58\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of different views that were put at the meeting that I had with the independent group. That was an important meeting where different views were exchanged, and if you find the document, you will see some of the aspirations of that group. I emphasise, though, that that is an independent group; that is not Government policy, and they have started a conversation that the National Party started in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb201d8d02c74b46950e4afbfb2695a6\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he believe implementing recommendations made in the He Puapua report like powers of veto over public policy will lead to fair and equitable outcomes for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca7c7ee70bec487f9aa0e39505bdf48a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, He Puapua is a starting document. It\u2019s starting the conversation. We want all New Zealanders to participate in that conversation. There are three areas: He Puapua, the plan, and the declaration. The National Party have forgotten that they have signed up to this declaration. In 2014, they talked about a plan, then they forgot the plan. The National Party have also forgotten that they agree with probably 85 percent of our views in terms of te ao M\u0101ori, as Judith Collins has said many times. They support Wh\u0101nau Ora, they support the Treaty settlements process, they support k\u014Dhanga reo, and it\u2019s really disgraceful how they\u2019ve been handling this subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeae75d193584b63900bc962897e7737\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that much of the content informing He Puapua is taken from the Treaty settlement process, the Waitangi Tribunal, and public discourse in relation to social and economic inequities relating to M\u0101ori outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252da1d7d50c349fe8c5f307fd1659bd4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. I can confirm that it\u2019s following all the lines in terms of the Treaty process that the National Party have signed up to. In fact, this process complements the Treaty settlement process and the partnership that we should all want in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217124fa7affc4c9b8675d66725ebdba1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Housing (Public Housing)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002242230a3484f54595a43cf72f30d71124\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242230a3484f54595a43cf72f30d71124\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): What is the Government looking for when it says it will \u201Ccontinue to monitor the rental market closely\u201D, and what would that monitoring have to show to convince the Government to develop new rules to ensure reasonable rents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdca9c2d01d14622a67d5ebfe7c6860e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdca9c2d01d14622a67d5ebfe7c6860e\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing)):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has made a number of changes to ensure better support for renters to find affordable accommodation during the housing crisis that has built up over the last decade, including limiting rent increases to once a year, banning rental bidding, banning letting fees, removing no-cause terminations, and allowing renters to go to the Tenancy Tribunal to request a rent reduction if they think their rent is too high. We will continue to monitor the rental market closely, including rent increases, turnover of rental properties, investor behaviour, and any changes to total rental stock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5a9ecec9ff4cfd9b39877d5f12a71a\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe the rental housing market is delivering efficient and fair outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e5a837250c4cc2a439a30146d77dc2\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Could he repeat that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047ebff04b904e629b3b2babc2ef79db\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe the rental housing market is delivering efficient and fair outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2763606602540a685c59e709df8d2cc\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I do believe is that we\u2019ve made multiple changes to improve the security and rights for renters, including limiting rent increases once a year and banning rental bidding. We\u2019re monitoring what happens with rent rises and will take action when necessary. I want to quote from the Stats New Zealand rental price index, which shows for the year to March 2021 a 1.6 percent increase in rents across the country. Now, this is lower than the last few years, which saw increases of around 2 to 5 percent, and the lowest we\u2019ve seen since 2009. I reiterate: if a tenant thinks that their rent is too expensive and not in line with the market rent, they can seek redress from the Tenancy Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d162318d5f90463daa530128a65b1b80\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair that four out of every 10 people who rent have to spend more than 30 percent of their income on rent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def8b7460f2146a7b1f11400c45308b0\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to point to my previous answer. The Stats New Zealand rental price index shows for the year to March 2021 an increase of 1.6 percent in rents across the country. This is lower than for the last few years, which saw increases of around 2 to 5 percent, and is, in fact, the lowest since 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255584290659a4ee08cd562f103bb6f6c\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it\u2019s reasonable that a landlord can charge $300 a week for a property and then get new tenants and charge them $600 a week for the same property, without making any improvements to the property?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c3f2b977b34c74ae5c8c52004a3da7\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I do think is reasonable is the Government\u2019s support for renters in the multiple changes that we have made to improvement rights and securities of renters. Overall, we have aspirations to ensure that, regardless of where your home is\u2014whether it\u2019s a home you own or a home you rent\u2014that that is affordable, and the Government\u2019s housing package goes a long way to addressing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d81d86aa23456c83edaa2e0b20fe85\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that Treasury expects the Government to subsidise people who rent from private landlords by $2.4 billion this year through the accommodation supplement because landlords are charging higher rents than 394,000 people can afford?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e571a562d94421b5a6ef9def8e3123\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The accommodation supplement is a support mechanism that has been in place for many years to support people to have affordable housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c983b4ff7fb4413190de5faa8307bbda\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: How many new State homes could be built with the money that the Government currently uses to subsidise unaffordable private rental homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a172dcde5efe4c2f819ada190f1297b6\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I think that\u2019s possibly better directed to the Minister of Housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d151b495bb574e51bd5a08424392f257\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5e1025a01a94b9ea90025613dc22cea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5e1025a01a94b9ea90025613dc22cea\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent reports, if any, has she seen about people entering into employment, education, or training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022da5594460ec3426aa6d6feb37a15d4a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da5594460ec3426aa6d6feb37a15d4a0\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the latest household labour force survey was released and it showed a further fall in unemployment down to 4.7 percent from 4.9 percent in the December quarter. This is in line with what we saw in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s March quarter benefit statistics, with a record number of New Zealanders coming off benefit and nearly 33,000 entering paid work, and it\u2019s despite the effects of COVID-19 or the COVID-19 pandemic. We are seeing a resilient labour market, with record numbers of people finding work. We\u2019re also seeing more people feeling secure in their employment. These are good signs, but, as always, we know there is more work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c43871f524142fb9323cdd8321e98de\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to keep people employed throughout the COVID-19 pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e405ab6b7774a39a8e95791b21fbdaf\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has acted as a team across multiple fronts. We worked quickly to implement the wage subsidy support and we invested in sectors such as sport, arts, and conservation with recovery packages to keep Kiwis in work. On top of that, we\u2019ve continued to strengthen our industry partnerships to ensure that we can work with New Zealand businesses to fill any spaces where there are workforce shortages. By resetting the economic conditions, keeping people in work, and helping people retrain, we are seeing a labour market that is performing above expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220516ced2c46e4bf9b032e378bfdf04b8\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to help people who are out of work back into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283dc397a5e3e44c791ee75e3934a79ae\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We have many different employment programmes that are designed to help particularly those who are disadvantaged in the labour market. The aim of these programmes is to instil skills and confidence in job seekers so they are work ready, and then we match them up with the employers and the jobs that are available. As the Prime Minister said earlier, we are seeing some great successes with Apprenticeship Boost, Mana in Mahi, He Poutama Rangatahi, M\u0101ori trades training, and our industry partnership programme. Our expanded Flexi-wage subsidy is also making a real difference to employers by providing them with incentives to take on staff who need a little bit more support in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8835b9fc65b4a0c95d4930d53afa51d\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If the unemployment rate is the same as it was in September 2017, why, then, in the same time period, are there now 75,000 more on the jobseeker benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a4a91b12924c938166a09038f8a08b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that the household labour force survey is a survey. But what the member also knows is that since mid-January 2021 this year, we\u2019ve actually seen a reduction of around 30,000 people on benefit\u2014down from 390,000 to 360,000. I think that is very clear evidence that despite the pandemic and despite the very dim forecasts that we had in front of us, we are doing pretty well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d16ab937da4adaa2ce529cbc8aef50\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the growth in employment that she has reported to the House today has occurred at the same time as the Government\u2019s made significant increases to the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f13e9f6e93174d1592a32dce507fc19e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely right, and despite some of the assertions in the House from the other side that lifting wages could result in a decrease in job opportunities, that is certainly not what we are seeing in New Zealand at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bae9c369c4e6407bb556849c0a272332\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00222af618423cf54233b3e5598ab0b99060\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222af618423cf54233b3e5598ab0b99060\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: When will the Government start publicly reporting on the number of jobs created from all its employment initiatives to support the 196,806 recipients of jobseeker support into paid employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022416dbcdc5925445194f7103386da7bd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022416dbcdc5925445194f7103386da7bd2\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We do report. In fact, a report came out today called the household labour force survey, and it showed more New Zealanders finding paid employment. Unemployment has dropped again\u2014now down to 4.7 percent. It is also important to note that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) does not have any job creation initiatives, but what we do do is we have initiatives that create job-ready people. These job-ready people add value to the businesses who are growing and need staff, but without the whole-of-Government approach to create the economic conditions from which businesses can thrive, we would have nowhere to send our work-ready people. A strong economy is the best job creation scheme possible and our Minister of Finance is delivering. This Government is a team that is making progress on a number of fronts, and today\u2019s unemployment figures show our teamwork is paying off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217dc1f2a2f004096a1a6d955903d8918\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What other employment initiatives are like the shovel-ready projects, where only half the jobs promised in Beehive press releases will be delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e356a7357ba48bc80d07b1c79f0116a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think, as I said, there are a range of initiatives. There are so many Ministers and ministries, Government agencies involved in the employment space\u2014everyone from the Department of Conservation, the Ministry for Culture and Heritage preparing people for work, and also the Ministry for Primary Industries. This is an all-of-Government response to the pandemic with regards to supporting people into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391d70a628e9491f920efae4e3fdee62\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If there are so many Ministers working on this issue, why can\u2019t the Minister deliver a simple answer in terms of how many jobs are being created, when, and where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df9e595552ff4c6ea35e076ed5daa0f5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: If we just refer to the job vacancies in March on SEEK and on TradeMe\u2014on SEEK, we saw a 55 percent increase in job vacancies, up from a year ago; on TradeMe, we saw a 22 percent increase in job vacancies, up from a year ago. I think that\u2019s pretty good evidence that not only are we doing our job as a Government but businesses have been supported to be resilient during a very difficult time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216594f9c61594bd0b2a98f6a3032656d\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is so convinced there are so many jobs out there, why is she failing to support the nearly 200,000 people who don\u2019t have a job, are on jobseeker benefit, and don\u2019t have enough money to put food on the table and a roof over their own heads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657fbadcd2284ebc9df1d4c5e7d14292\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that we have just gone through\u2014or are coming through\u2014a thing called COVID-19. The forecasts were very dim but we have managed to actually do better than every expectation that was in them. I also want to remind the member, who has been around for a long time, that out of the 200,000 people that are on job seeker, about 118,000 of them are job seekers that are work-ready, and about 78,000 of them are actually job seekers with health conditions or disabilities. We\u2019re committed to working with them to actually support their overall wellbeing so that they can get into employment as well. That\u2019s a very important differentiation that that member always conveniently forgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a7c8df5ca74f3faa034b2431d59cac\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why can the Minister not provide answers about the number of jobs created by the Employment, Education and Training Ministers Group that she co-chairs, when the focus of that group is to \u201Cwork with other agencies to develop a job creation measurement framework that will support consistent reporting across the range of job creation programmes.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ed52df86ba4dfe8549f2b4d6385ca9\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: That work is ongoing. However, what I will say\u2014I will offer one example of many that are in place where agencies are working together. That example is the Apprenticeship Boost where MSD has been working effectively with Education to create opportunities for apprenticeships, and now we have something like, I think, 22,000 new apprentice accounts created because of that. That\u2019s a very big improvement on what we saw under the global financial crisis when there was no investment in apprenticeships and we ended up having big gaps with regards to workforce shortages in trades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a556a2e8da824ec7b5d441c51db42339\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00222df9c090b3fc4c4fa49813650c80b775\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222df9c090b3fc4c4fa49813650c80b775\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made about the Government\u2019s response to the Health and Disability System Review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00221028ffc786514e19a9d7e3bb2001ef4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221028ffc786514e19a9d7e3bb2001ef4b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E On Wednesday, 21 April, I announced major reforms to the New Zealand health system that will make healthcare accessible for all New Zealanders. The new health system will replace all district health boards with one national organisation, Health New Zealand; establish a new M\u0101ori health authority; establish a new public health agency; and strengthen the Ministry of Health to monitor performance and advise Government on policy matters. The reforms will mean that, for the first time, we will have a truly national health system, and the kind of treatment people get will no longer be determined by where they live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa550e0a9128468cac7d6b4fc78b6d50\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government taken this approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f6884d56f34f88b5887975d9e1ec2f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The changes are in response to the Health and Disability System Review, which found the public health system was under stress and that a greater emphasis on primary healthcare had the greatest potential to improve New Zealanders\u2019 health. The reforms herald a change in the focus for the health system. We will have the chance to make it a priority to treat more people before they get sick, so they don\u2019t have to go to hospital, thereby taking the pressure off hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e088f7452a4c07a4f3d431e9ead21e\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of feedback has he received on the structure of the new health system so far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab8295a0f3443a98432f0fb9c6fb506\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Since the announcement two weeks ago, I\u2019ve had the opportunity to meet with many health sector groups and stakeholders, and the feedback I\u2019ve received has been overwhelmingly positive. I\u2019ve also seen comments by Sir John Hansen, the chair of the Canterbury District Health Board, who said, \u201CThis will offer a much more coherent view of health, which my experience suggests has been needed for some time.\u201D, and comments by well-known health leader Dr Lester Levy, who said, \u201CIn my view these health reforms are well conceived, soundly constructed, genuinely necessary and, with disciplined and outstanding implementation, will make the difference everyone would like to see.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296c98df9a8c14b778553ee6a087924ff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u00228fe1f395e0594c3580cec6699c7b83ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fe1f395e0594c3580cec6699c7b83ef\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Ko taku p\u0101tai ki te Minita Whanaketanga M\u0101ori, ahakoa he moumou taima. [My question is to the Minister of M\u0101ori Development, though it may be a waste of time.] Does he believe that his statement that \u201Cin every area of New Zealand society, we have institutional racism\u201D includes the Government and Government departments; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00223fc1abf32494442c88563824d8ee09c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fc1abf32494442c88563824d8ee09c3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E In terms of institutional racism, there\u2019s no doubt that it is right across the spectrum in terms of New Zealand society. As far as Government and Government departments go, we have responded positively to the challenge over the last 3\u00BD years. I\u2019m proud of the way this Government is not afraid to roll out programmes that advance the interest of M\u0101ori, and in doing so, we are addressing the huge inequities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa96cbbfcb3a45dba3d7c3b66cd38fe7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Labour Party largesse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147eb18c985948a4b20fb04a4c690d41\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the system, Mr Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246d57026e53b4f87a89cd6ad028b309f\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What programmes or initiatives is this Government actively pursuing to stop racism against tangata whenua, unconscious or otherwise, in their Government, in Government departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299eae387ba7f4a77b4369c3b919d53aa\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We have a number of programmes that are addressing inequity and racism. I think that our support for what Minister Davis is doing in the corrections area is incredibly important, and that change in having prisoners address their culture is incredibly important. The M\u0101ori Health Authority is a statement about tino rangatiratanga and by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori. Right across the spectrum, we are seeing examples of this, and, as we all know, it\u2019s irritating the National Party very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd53045e2834eb4935788ed34b29038\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How are these programmes being measured and by whom, and what recommendations from the He Puapua report, that this Government commissioned, have been agreed to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233dd9af6954d4a949223b5cc429ecbd0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Taking the second part of the question\u2014nothing from the He Puapua report has been agreed to. The He Puapua report is an introduction in terms of a k\u014Drero\u2014it\u2019s a starting k\u014Drero. I thank that group very much for the mahi that they have done, but we\u2019ve got a lot of work to do that is not Government policy but we will be developing that later on. And I forgot the first part of your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b33e52acd004588aa9fb5e2690373c7\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister: what advice would he have for organisations that are clearly suffering from institutionalised racism, who have few M\u0101ori amongst their ranks, who have little or no knowledge of Te Tiriti, whose leadership constantly refuses the need to support M\u0101ori aspirations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227994d4d915e34103a58711c0a944d13d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member was probably right for about one of the\u2014you\u2019re allowed one leg to a supplementary; there were about three there and I think the member went\u2014no, I\u2019m not going to let him answer it. The member went well off track and was a bit too transparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cfeb3a5b0634a2e95bc9b51ba4aff2a\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has the Government taken to address some of the inequities that M\u0101ori face?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb8599d2dd90434eab2549f2621c5405\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We have been a very supportive Government in terms of te ao M\u0101ori. We\u2019re addressing the inequities that M\u0101ori are facing every day. We\u2019ve addressed the wonderful M\u0101ori social procurement target for the public sector, to improve the barriers that M\u0101ori have in its accessing contracts\u2014in fact, 5 percent. We\u2019ve put record investment into Wh\u0101nau Ora, and Mr Waititi should be very supportive of that. To support by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori solutions, we\u2019ve announced the M\u0101ori Health Authority to address inequities M\u0101ori face in the health system. And I have to say, we\u2019re very proud to have announced Matariki and also our commitment to teach New Zealand history, both M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 in our schools\u2014and Pasifika.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c4415aafa3485aaf230996c0b5f88a\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government transfer this question from the Prime Minister, when the question directly asked for her views on whether racism exists within her Government and Government departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e489b28af9ae42359ae587b86e8dbe38\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That question\u2019s not in order. This is not a responsibility of this Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ced1bbbf4b4726b748e77c78a753ab\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please. Why is the Speaker allowing the racism that is coming into this House in the treatment of tangata whenua that we\u2019ve been experiencing and listening to solidly for the last two days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b0310ff69354a72a4dbb7de57989819\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m assuming that that\u2019s a point of order. Applying the rules or the kawa of this House to all members is not something I regard as racist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d89da3a38899451287235f79966f8774\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please. I do want to clarify: is Te Tiriti respected in the basis of this Government and this House or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e94b33aed7e4dd9befdc1d8b01ff269\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is certainly the subject of a PhD dissertation and not an off-the-cuff Speaker\u2019s ruling. [Interruption] The member, I think, knows that if she tries again, she\u2019s being disorderly. Now, I know that her colleague likes being disorderly and likes being tossed out, but I don\u2019t really want to do it to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdbb213335804dbaa8107fa130bcd6fd\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. You were saying that the answers are for the betterment of the whole of New Zealand. Over the last two days, all I have heard is M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori bashing in this House. [Interruption] We don\u2019t hear P\u0101keh\u0101\u2014we only hear M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori bashing. So we want an explanation of why that is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022199bef3f27a045fd9321ddc649bbbab1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think members pointing fingers at each other doesn\u2019t really help in this particular circumstance. I think the questions, the answers, and the debate is a responsibility for the members who take part, and the question of racism is something that I look out for very carefully. I think it\u2019s fair to say, though, that people have different standards, and balancing racism against the ability of members to express their views and the right to free speech in this House is something that requires a balance. Certainly, it\u2019s something which I would take a lot of care on intervening on. I think if the member is unhappy with the actions of particular members, then the appropriate thing to do is to seek appointments with them and to talk it through with them. But I think from this point, we run the risk of becoming disorderly. The member, I understand, has one further supplementary question. Does he wish to use it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f9e1a5f3a245e1886404332475e73d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ae08bcbfee49cf9ff5131ab4a000a6\u0022\u003EHon Aupito William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister, why is it important for you to tackle institutional racism that arises from this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5fc4e9339bc4a138e989f26fbad1e20\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b358b6b0f95a4e1eb31e2942f2d0dc5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry; I\u2019m going to ask the member to repeat the question. I was slightly diverted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b90e850a3c4b9ea395b13b9dab00de\u0022\u003EHon Aupito William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m asking the Minister: why is it important for him to tackle institutional racism head-on that arises from this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba7e368880b44628c36cc63808c5c04\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It might be around the edge of his responsibilities, but it is my responsibility in some ways, and individual members\u2019, but it\u2019s not something that this Minister has responsibility for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8c5a263b3354e1599c5e6b069a6d48a\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002260a7b0bc44994b0ab4446c19b0785ea3\u0022\u003ENo Confidence in Speaker\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002220dbb04b23ff4394bbabf4e488aed52b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220dbb04b23ff4394bbabf4e488aed52b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for members\u2019 notice of motion No. 7, in my name, to be set down for debate forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b36aa7ba4c43e7a50621ba86d66fc4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207e2add74f95499f93b6022db41c9d8a\u0022\u003EXinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region\u2014Human Rights Abuses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00223dfdce5bb7024c4195195e50df874dc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dfdce5bb7024c4195195e50df874dc2\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House is gravely concerned about the severe human rights abuses taking place against Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and that it call on the Government to work with the United Nations, international partners, and to work with all relevant instruments of international law to bring these abuses to an end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, it is important that we are having this debate. I want to thank members of all parties represented in our Parliament who have agreed for this debate to go ahead. Some people think it is brave for our Parliament to debate something the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) may disagree with. Think about that for a moment. We are elected by the people of New Zealand to debate freely and fearlessly, just so long as we don\u2019t offend the Chinese Communist Party\u2014that is what it would have meant to not have this debate. It is vital that we are able to have this debate in the ultimate sanctuary of free speech: our Parliament. It is vital for our democracy, for our conscience, and for our position in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI want to start by saying what this debate is not. I fear that some will try to misrepresent it. So let me be clear: this is not a criticism of the country of China, it is not a criticism of Chinese people, it is certainly not a criticism of our Chinese Kiwi neighbours. In my experience, it is that last group who are often the most strident in warning us about the regime that this debate is about: the Chinese Communist Party. To our Chinese Kiwi friends, I say good afternoon, ni hao, kia ora. We need you to look outside media that is influenced by the CCP, to examine other sources, and to join in the effort to understand the rapidly emerging situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBefore I go any further, I\u2019d like to briefly comment on the procedures and motions that led to this debate. They may tell us almost as much about New Zealand\u2019s position on the matter as the debate to come. Unfortunately, we are only having half this debate. This is not the debate that I proposed to the Parliament last week. I proposed a debate on the exact motion of Nusrat Ghani that the British Parliament unanimously agreed to last month. I read: \u201CThat this House believes that Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are suffering Crimes Against Humanity and Genocide; and calls on the Government to act to fulfil its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide and all relevant instruments of international law to bring it to an end.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EIn that debate, the Minister representing the Government, Nigel Adams, said the United Kingdom Government would not declare a genocide is taking place, saying that is the role of a properly competent court. Many speakers in that debate argued that no such court hearing is possible given the alleged perpetrators will not allow access to the Xinjiang region. I\u2019ll turn to those arguments later. The fact is that the British Parliament had a debate about genocide. Here in New Zealand, other parties, who have the power of veto, would not allow this debate to proceed if the motion mentioned genocide. It\u2019s important for people to know how we got to debating the motion before us today. I started with the same motion as the British, then had to dilute it and soften it to gain the approval of New Zealand\u2019s governing party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETurning to the importance of our democracy, we are fortunate to have inherited the best system of government. It was hard won at times by our ancestors. The names of battles around this Chamber are a daily reminder of that. As recently as this year, we have seen a legislature like ours, in Hong Kong, lose those rights. It is critical that we assert parliamentary sovereignty. We must reject the idea that foreign powers can interfere in our institutions. It remains problematic that we have seen the Chinese Consulate successfully prevent students and faculty at Auckland University of Technology (AUT) commemorating the Tiananmen Square massacre. The Vice Chancellor\u2019s acquiescence was understandable: he was reliant on international student revenue. The CCP could easily turn that tap down or off completely. But, in that decision, he also made AUT a microcosm of New Zealand as we all face the challenge he did on a larger scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EUniversities play an important role as the critic and conscience of society, but Parliament plays an essential role as the democratic expression of people\u2019s sovereignty. For our Parliament to ignore reality and oppose this motion out of fear, as the Minister of trade seemed to suggest we should do yesterday, is intolerable. Our conscience requires that we support this motion. We know that a genocide is taking place. The evidence is voluminous\u2014from multiple sources, and credible. It is also true that the Uyghur people have been engaged in terrorism across China. This should not be without consequence, but genocide is not a justifiable consequence for anything. It is certainly not justifiable to show absolutely no mercy, as President Xi called for in the People\u2019s War on Terror, centred on Xinjiang. Genocide does not require a war. It does not need to be sudden. It can be slow and deliberate, and that is what is happening here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENew Zealand and China both signed the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1949. It gives an internationally agreed definition of genocide: \u201Cany of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the groups; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.\u201D Not one but each of these are occurring in Xinjiang according to multiple sources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo take one example, there has been a mass imposition of contraceptive devices upon Uyghur women and forced sterilisation, matched by an enormous reduction in fertility rates in Xinjiang. The Parliaments of Canada, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands have all passed motions condemning the Chinese Communist Party for genocide. The United States Federal Government has done so twice: once under President Trump and again under President Biden. Not many things can unite those two! Some will say that the convention requires a competent court to decide what is and is not a genocide. That is a principle I would normally agree with, but let\u2019s be honest: the perpetrator of a genocide is not going to submit to a court hearing. Our conscience demands that, if we believe there is a genocide, we should say so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFinally, we must consider the geopolitical and trade implications of this situation. There will be some who say it is irresponsible to bring this motion. The ACT Party believes it would be irresponsible not to. New Zealand plays an important role in the global community. The world is now looking to us to see what standard we are going to set. Can the CCP play us off as the weakest link in the Western alliance? Will we abandon our longest-standing ally, across the Ditch, when enough carrot and stick is applied? We may face the threat of loss for speaking our mind, but we face a much greater danger if we don\u2019t. The standard we set may be our destiny. A small country has more to lose than most in a world where democratic nations are bullied, played off against each other, and cowed by trade sanctions and worse. Our best hope of security and prosperity is collective defence. So we must make sure the standards of the world are set as high as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Standing Orders prevent me from amending my own motion to how the ACT Party thinks it should read, but I have put a signed amendment on the Table which reflects the genocide occurring. I hope that some other member will move the amendment so that it can be debated. In the meantime, I call on the Government to use all instruments of international law available to it to ensure that the genocide under way is investigated and its perpetrators be brought to justice. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002254d81a4da8e841ff992fc8b855a67910\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254d81a4da8e841ff992fc8b855a67910\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002250b26c3f3d4e469cb55c6e743d647e3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250b26c3f3d4e469cb55c6e743d647e3f\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in support of members\u2019 motion No. 1 and I acknowledge the unanimous support across the House for the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EE uhi tai, e uhi tai e. Uhi tai uhi tai e. E uhi tai ana koa ng\u0101 haemanga kei Haina. Kei tutuki t\u014D waewae i te poro o te paewai. E uhi tai uhi tai e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[The tide flows, the tide flows. The tide flows, the tide flows. The tide flows over the ravines of China. Least your foot strikes the piece of driftwood. The tide flows, the tide flows.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Government has publicly stated its grave concerns at the growing number of credible reports of severe human rights abuses taking place against Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Since 2018, when reports began to emerge of large-scale extrajudicial detentions in the region, we have consistently called on China to respect the human rights of the Uyghur people and other ethnic and religious minorities. The Prime Minister has raised our concerns at the highest levels, with China\u2019s leadership, and joined partners in amplifying these concerns at multi-lateral fora, including the United Nations. My Australian counterpart and I issued a joint statement in March this year on Xinjiang, and the Prime Minister reiterated our grave concerns as recently as this week at the China Business Summit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWhile the New Zealand Government has grave concerns about the human rights situation in Xinjiang, we have not formally designated the situation as constituting a genocide. This is not due to a lack of concern. Genocide is the gravest of international crimes, and a formal legal determination should only be reached following a rigorous assessment on the basis of international law. International courts have required fully conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion of genocide. New Zealand has not previously made an independent determination of genocide; we\u2019ve relied upon judicial findings of genocide in the case of Cambodia, Rwanda, and, of course, the Holocaust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Government, in concert with others, will continue to call upon China in the strongest terms to provide meaningful and unfettered access to the United Nations and other independent observers to ascertain the situation in Xinjiang. Aotearoa New Zealand will continue to work with our close partners to speak up to defend the human rights of religious and ethnic minorities in a meaningful way. We will continue to work with the United Nations, international partners, and relevant instruments of international law to bring these abuses to an end. We welcome Parliament forming a view and debating this critical issue. We are, of course, a democracy. It raises awareness of the issue in this House and in the wider community. We call on China to uphold its human rights obligations and to respond to the well-founded concerns of the international community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EE hoa m\u0101, koinei anake te kahu o te wai. Taihoa kia rongo koutou i ng\u0101 mahi nanakia i oti ai r\u0101tou i ng\u0101 tau kua huri, \u0101, inaia tonu nei. Kia h\u014Dhonu te ruku i ng\u0101 whakam\u0101rama o te k\u014Drero nei. Kia kaua noa iho t\u0101tou e m\u014Dhio ki te kahu o te wai. Uhi tai, uhi tai e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Friends, this is only the surface of the water. Soon you will hear the full account of their cruelty over the years, up until now. Let us dive deep into the details. Do not just focus on the surface of the water. The tide flows, the tide flows.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00225b617f8fc64f45d989b3e1ed383cb200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b617f8fc64f45d989b3e1ed383cb200\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party joins with the other parties of the New Zealand Parliament in support of the parliamentary motion No. 1. Two days ago, I had the privilege of attending the seventh annual China Business Summit in Auckland, where our longstanding relationship with China was assessed through the lens of the last 50 years and the mutual challenges and opportunities which sit in front of us. I was reminded of our longstanding diplomatic relationship, dating back to 1972, and our broader history which goes back even further. I listened to what China and New Zealand have built together over this time, how our two countries have grown, and our people succeeded together\u2014in particular, since the signing of the trade agreement in 2008. I reflected that, in a world where people are increasingly at odds and where a shared sense of purpose has often been replaced with self-interest\u2014and conflicts of self-interest\u2014it remains as true as ever that an ability to engage and to discuss issues are critical to our ongoing peace and prosperity. But that peace and prosperity must be shared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe depth of our relationship has also allowed us to sit across the table from each other, or alongside each other, to discuss ideas or to raise concerns. It has meant we can have a frank discussion as two peoples who don\u2019t always agree but who have respect for each other and a willingness to listen and, where necessary, to be criticised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhat also struck me, while listening to the insights from businesses such as Alibaba and Guangxin Technology Co. and Fonterra and Zespri, is that, while analysts see trade in terms of billions of dollars and percentage of exports and the rise of e-commerce, the true strength of our commercial and cultural connection is anchored in the relationships between our people\u2014Chinese and New Zealanders, Chinese New Zealanders and their families back home, and the sharing of ideas and opportunities across borders in a world where those boundaries are increasingly impermeable. It is the strength of the personal relationship between New Zealand and Chinese people that has created our shared history. It is the depth of those personal relationships that will guide us through this difficult conversation, because the conversation will be at times difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is known for its willingness to walk softly amongst the hard paths of geopolitics, but we walk our own path. We are known to speak with a measured tone and a manner that seeks to resolve and not to compound, but we speak with our own voice. We speak it to those we believe should hear us, but we do not seek to grandstand. But neither do we shirk from uncomfortable conversations, and, today, this House speaks in one voice with our concerns about severe human rights abuses in China. We understand that China views any matter relating to its 1.4 billion people as entirely a matter for its own consideration, but we share one planet and there are fundamental tenets of humanity that should not be constrained by borders or political systems or ideologies. This Parliament and the 5 million people we represent believe that it is a basic human right for people to feel safe in their homes, to pray to whom they wish to pray to, to hug who they love, and to identify with a cultural tradition that best reflects their whakapapa and t\u016Brangawaewae. We are very concerned that this is not a reality for the Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EToday is about raising our concerns respectfully but directly to our Chinese counterparts. Two days ago, the Chinese ambassador said these concerns are unfounded, but the National Party urges, in unison with our parliamentary colleagues, that China work with the United Nations and other international partners to confirm that the concerns of our community and this Parliament can be addressed, and conditions significantly improved for the Uyghur people and other ethnic minorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIt is our hope that our voices here today are heard through the appreciation of our shared history, the depth of our personal relationships, and acknowledgment that we have always been able to speak to each other with mutual respect and reciprocity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00224515a0d3fe5a4c8ca26c4bfa0eeed25d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224515a0d3fe5a4c8ca26c4bfa0eeed25d\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the text of the motion be amended to read, according to the Speaker\u2019s Order Paper No. 10: \u201CThat this House believe that Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are suffering crimes against humanity and genocide, and call on the Government to act to fulfil its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and all relevant instruments of international law to bring it to an end.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fad65783f494868bf5b14e68d20234f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendment be agreed to. Has the member finished her speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d911658dd0c408281819a6050dee66a\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, no; that was just the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c84ad9190cd4318a370ebbd389b9a19\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s got another few minutes\u2014so nine minutes to go. If she stops, I\u2019ll put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a7ce214e734fdbb3423164796e9718\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Green Party unequivocally condemns the grave atrocities being suffered by the Uyghur minority in Xinjiang province and other religious, linguistic, and cultural minorities at the hands of the Chinese Government. I rise today, as an indigenous Kurdish woman who has suffered what I would characterise in my own region as amounting to at least crimes against humanity, to ethnic cleansing, and perhaps to genocide. I rise also, I note, as we all do each day in this House, on land that was never ceded by the indigenous people of this land, where we know that similar atrocity crimes have been committed and suffered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI want to thank the member who has brought this motion to the House. I do regret that the final motion that has been debated thus far was, to put it mildly, watered down and that the House has shied away from talking about atrocity crimes being committed by the Government of China, but rather what we\u2019re now calling \u201Csevere human rights breaches\u201D. It is important the words that we use in condemnation of what is happening, at the scale that it\u2019s happening, with the systemicity that is happening in Xinjiang province in China, and at the hands of any Government that treats its minorities with persecution and with what we know is what amounts to torture, what amounts to forcible sterilisation, with children being removed, and what we know the numbers are, which is approaching well over a million. That\u2019s all we know coming out of a closed region, based on UN conservative estimates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe also, here in Aotearoa New Zealand, sit in a House of Representatives where just a year and a half ago, just two years ago, our Muslim minority suffered what our nation now recalls as the latest of grave hate crimes. Again, we know that ethnic violence was not new at that moment on March 15, 2019. We know that our indigenous people have suffered it for a long time. So we stand here in solidarity with the Uyghur minority, knowing a little of their pain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe crime of genocide\u2014and I have sat in courtrooms, both in defence and in prosecution of that crime\u2014amounts to any act with the intention of destroying that population based on its ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race, in whole or in part, in any region. It isn\u2019t the crime of crimes. All atrocity crimes are equal before the law in international courts. The crime of crimes in Nuremberg was actually recognised as the crime of aggression. We don\u2019t often condemn the crime of aggression in our Western Parliaments or by Governments, and I do wonder why we sometimes, in fact, send our troops to be complicit and to aid and abet in that crime when it happens, at least in my region of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo, today, I hope that this marks a shift that New Zealand\u2019s Parliament is going to stand in solidarity with victims of atrocity crimes, whether they are unlawful wars, whether they are war crimes, whether it\u2019s genocide or crimes against humanity, whether they are committed by Governments who we see as our traditional allies, our trading partners, and, indeed, especially if they\u2019re happening in our Asia-Pacific neighbourhood, as these crimes are today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut what matters is not only our words of condemnation. It\u2019s not whether or not we recognise this as a genocide and not another atrocity crime. What matters is our actions. I was deeply disappointed to hear leadership from both major political parties refer to trade as a consideration for them when they were discussing whether or not they would allow a motion using the word \u201Cgenocide\u201D when they were talking about the mass torture. Extrajudicial detention is sterilisation and slavery of some 1 million people. That was stunningly callous. It was absolutely morally indefensible and it is a breach of New Zealand\u2019s legal obligations, our absolute responsibility to support an international rules - based order, where we uphold not only human rights but where we condemn, help to prosecute, punish, and prevent atrocity crimes, because we know that mass crimes like this are an absolute threat to international peace and security to all of our dignity, all of our human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do hope that this is a motion that will trigger action. What the Green Party has been condemning is happening in Xinjiang province requires us to stop trade of slave labour goods coming out of that region. Our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, under questioning and in the select committee, said that they couldn\u2019t even identify if it was happening. Last week, we found out that the Greater Wellington Regional Council had inadvertently bought buses that were very likely produced by Uyghur slave labour, after asking the ministry for go-ahead. We know that that same ministry gave up to 260 permits for trade of military equipment, including under a UN blacklist, which we breached in selling military goods to the Saudi military when they were blacklisted for killing Yemeni children. When I asked ministry officials about that in select committee, they laughed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe know that our Government is not doing enough to prevent atrocity crimes and uphold our international obligations. We know that the ACT Party itself voted down the last time legislation came through this House to prevent slave labour goods from being sold in New Zealand. We want action, not just words. We owe the victims action and we owe victims across the globe that same condemnation and action. We owe it to the Palestinian children being removed from their homes and imprisoned. We owe it to West Papuans being extrajudicially imprisoned in our Asia-Pacific neighbourhood. We owe it to Western Saharans, who are right now under the process of UN\u2019s decolonisation framework. New Zealand remains the only nation trading in their minerals stolen from their land. We owe an even hand to victims of atrocity crimes across the world, and this motion will hopefully be a beginning of that. We owe it to the people of Aotearoa New Zealand to be on the right side of history. Thank you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccac3d2bf0124daba5fc86c48237f951\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccac3d2bf0124daba5fc86c48237f951\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We will support Parliament\u2019s No. 1 motion as it aligns with our values as tangata w\u2019enua. Also, Te Paati M\u0101ori will vote in support of this motion as it rightly draws attention to the suffering of Uyghur people and the human rights abuses they are facing. We are pleased to see the point of order to stop this motion being watered down before it was debated. We must never attempt to silence the atrocities of genocides, and that\u2019s happening to indigenous peoples. We need to be calling out these atrocities for what they are, wherever they are happening in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI stand as a descendant of Pari\u2019aka, a descendant of muru raupatu. The depth of pain of genocide can never be explained. The deliberate killing of a large number of people from particular or ethnic groups with the one aim of destroying or wiping out that nation or group is deplorable. I guess what we are here for today is making sure that we use our sphere of influence to bring to attention that more than a million people are estimated to have been detained at internment camps in the regions, and many are suffering from rape; abuse; horrible, inhumane practices such as organ harvesting; mass torture; slavery; forcible removals. We must condemn these actions for what they are. We must make sure that we never lose sight of those who have been our w\u2019anaunga, those who we have living beside us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori has a strong track record on standing up for human rights and indigenous rights in Aotearoa and internationally\u2014in fact, it\u2019s been the bane of much discussion this week. We will continue to advocate for indigenous peoples and fight racism and bigotry in all its forms. We stand in solidarity with all indigenous and oppressed peoples right around the world. Ethnic violence starts with racism. Racism is something that we shouldn\u2019t be scared of calling each other up for. We should use this place to lead and stamp it out. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the example that we\u2019ve been seeing out of this place, this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EJust as we stand with our w\u2019anau, with our people, we too need to stand with our Pasifika w\u2019anaunga in West Papua who are suffering genocide. We stand with our tangata moemoe\u0101 Aboriginal brothers and sisters. We stand with the First Nations of Turtle Island fighting for justice at Standing Rock and our Hawaiian w\u2019anaunga at Mauna Kea. Let me remind this House again that we normalise and continue to be OK with those who have been perpetrators of genocide, with the monsters we still continue to have on our walls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EFinally, ACT is well known for pushing colonial agendas that oppress indigenous peoples here in Aotearoa, so it\u2019s important that Te Paati M\u0101ori say that we struggled to understand how they\u2019ve all of a sudden adopted or developed a desire to support the indigenous peoples in China. It was just five months ago they were calling to abolish our own Human Rights Commission. In this House, we continue to hear words like segregation, separatism, apartheid\u2014those denying partnerships of Te Tiriti. One would hope that they extend this new moral position to their own country and let the tangata w\u2019enua enjoy the same support that they are proposing for everyone else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0101 t\u0101tou tipuna, ng\u0101 mihi aroha ki a koutou, kia kaha kia m\u0101ia ki te tangata w\u2019enua. Kia ora r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E[Therefore, in line with the characteristic or our ancestor, I wish to sincerely acknowledge the indigenous people, be strong and brave. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd152813d05d43cf9721cb3a40dd0cf7\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216635e3440b44a74b7d953a905e91074\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022dab218c70a1647639bda1f46b29d58a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dab218c70a1647639bda1f46b29d58a5\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s been an interesting 24 hours in the House of Parliament of New Zealand, I must admit, and I think we\u2019d be interested in actually maybe talking about more prosaic matters. I thought what we\u2019re actually observing is a Government that is starting to look like it\u2019s in a little bit of trouble. You know, if I look across the other side and say \u201CWhat are the issues that seem to be surfacing after 42 months of this Government?\u201D, it is where we\u2019ve got issues with COVID, and we\u2019ve seen certain strains coming through on that, and I\u2019ll talk more about that shortly. Housing: I see the Hon Megan Woods here, who was talking about that before. We\u2019ve got issues with gangs and how they\u2019ve been dealt with. We\u2019ve got health issues, and that\u2019s a significant one, because how these have been dealt with is very significant, and I see Mr Faafoi there, the Minister of Immigration. I know he\u2019s not dealing with the issue of immigration well, because all of our electorate offices have been flooded with people who are not getting a proper and timely reaction or response from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut I thought today we might talk about delivery\u2014something a bit different, just a little bit different. So I thought it would be useful just to ask ourselves: what has this Government achieved in 42 months? The first thing that I\u2019d like to note is we\u2019ve got 10,000 more bureaucrats that have been employed under this Labour-led Government over the last three years. I\u2019ve got to say, the small cost that has come with that is roughly about $1.2 billion, so that\u2019s a good delivery! And I would have thought with the Minister of Finance, if he was looking for a bit of extra money\u2014and I\u2019m just looking at my finance colleague here\u2014if he were to go and find some money, that would be a pretty good start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, we had the 340 working groups. Some have been delivered, I think\u2014probably, more likely, delivered to the bottom drawer, because they\u2019re just not going to happen and they are a waste of time anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe had a Prime Minister who proudly banned oil and gas exploration and sailed off into the wind, went off and met President Macron and Angela Merkel in Germany, and said what a wonderful thing it is. So what\u2019s been the downside? Well, we\u2019ve seen energy prices go up fourfold\u2014400 percent; fourfold\u2014or, actually, slightly more than that, since that announcement only a few months ago. We\u2019ve got a Minister who\u2019s so keen on spending over $5 billion on a scheme that is so worrying the electricity and energy markets that they are putting on hold now a lot of their projects because they just regard it as a kahuna of a project that will make such an impact they will not invest in new renewables, and that is why we\u2019re seeing power prices going up four times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re seeing rents go up by 120 bucks a week. I thought this was a Government that\u2019s caring, but, of course, the most damaging thing about that is that these are the people that are the most vulnerable people in New Zealand. These are the people, some of which will be hoping to save for their house, and of course a high rent is not going to help that. So we\u2019ve got lots of these things coming through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the most worrying thing for me is all the projects that are not happening. We\u2019ve got the Mill Road project in Auckland, in my electorate and in Judith Collins\u2019 electorate. We\u2019ve got the Melling interchange, which looks like it\u2019s going to be postponed. We\u2019ve got the Penlink one that\u2019s likely to be delayed. We\u2019ve got the Auckland light rail project. We\u2019ve got the housing: 871 of them out of the 16,000 that have been promised but that, of course, haven\u2019t been delivered. And that weird comment today about \u201Cinstitutional muscle memory of building houses\u201D\u2014I just don\u2019t get that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got, today, the Deputy Prime Minister wanting to set up and talk about his new delivery unit, and, of course, where is the detail behind it? It is based on a UK scheme. It actually got brought in initially, got removed, and has now been brought back in. Here we\u2019ve got a Labour Government trying to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fecc3f1afcdf47a3ae41adb1f6c301fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fecc3f1afcdf47a3ae41adb1f6c301fb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002201601c47cf914097b0d77a37b963cf3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201601c47cf914097b0d77a37b963cf3b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E There is so much to be grateful for here in New Zealand. I think that one of the things that is important, as a group of people or as the team of 5 million, is that we do take from time to time the chance to reflect on the fact that we can look to the future with hope, with optimism, and that we can see opportunity. This is not something that all those around the world have the privilege of doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe did not get here by accident. We got here by collective effort from all New Zealanders, who made a decision that we were going to put people first and that our health response was going to be our best economic response. The hard work that we all put in as a country last year gives us this hope, this optimism, and this ability to see opportunity, and I think that we do have to sometimes pause, be mindful of that, and realise just how we lucky we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe are a Government that has a very clear mission of what needs to happen now. We do need to continue to keep New Zealanders safe from COVID. I think we only need look around the world to see that this is a global pandemic that is far from over. It requires vigilant behaviour on our part as a Government, and that is what we are committed to doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut alongside this, we are a Government that is absolutely committed to accelerating our economic recovery and starting to build back better and address those long-term challenges like housing affordability, like childhood poverty, and like climate change. These are the issues that we must address. What we have to do is continue to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s people and economy are in the best position that they possibly can be at this unprecedented time not only in our nation\u2019s history but in our global history. We have a responsibility as a Government but we also have a responsibility as a House, as a House of Parliament, to do that as well, and that is something that our Government is absolutely committed to doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that New Zealanders all around the country tell me when I\u2019m out and about is how happy they are in the way in which the Government has managed the books through this crisis and the way in which the careful management is now reaping those returns. We can look to the household labour force survey that came out today and showed that, actually, the unemployment rates that we are experiencing are nowhere near what was being predicted. We have managed to care for New Zealanders. We can look at our joblessness rate across those countries in the OECD that we would compare ourselves with and we can see how well we are doing. We can look at how our economy is performing relative to many of those other countries that we would compare ourselves to and we can see how well we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAgain, this was not done by accident, and I would like to acknowledge the work of the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance, who has stewarded us through this period of time to ensure that we are continuing to look after New Zealanders. Jobs aren\u2019t turning up by accident, as the Minister for Social Development and Employment was talking about in the House today. We are investing in our people. We are investing in apprenticeships. We are investing in making sure that we are getting young people into the trades, and they are flocking to those schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhen we have a look at what we have to do, we know there are many challenges ahead of us. We know that we have to continue to repair the damage that was done that has led to the housing crisis. We know we have to continue to build houses, and that is what we are committed to doing. We are committed to continuing to look after one another and to invest in our future, a future that is rich in jobs and responds to those big challenges that we face as a nation. We can continue to hold our heads high and see just how well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022825467ffa59d4c218f451b5ed79e93c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022825467ffa59d4c218f451b5ed79e93c1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00228cefd231ea2b466e9aeeee9e92105b39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cefd231ea2b466e9aeeee9e92105b39\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d just like to start by saying that if the Minister of Housing wrote that speech, she should fire herself and find somebody who can actually write a speech for her. She talked about a team of 5 million, and I\u2019d like to refer to something that my colleague Andrew Bayly has said in terms of the delivery for this Government. That Minister talked about the delivery and what this Government, apparently, have been doing for the last four years, because they were in fact the Government last term and they have already been in Government, second term, for more than six months now, and they haven\u2019t really delivered much, especially if you\u2014not you, Mr Speaker\u2014if one happens to be of an ethnic minority. Consider the fact that the first Asian person, a Chinese man who actually arrived here, came to Nelson in 1842. He is often known as Appo Hocton, but his name is Wong Ahpoo Hock Ting. He was the first Chinese man who actually arrived here, but for many Asian people living in New Zealand, this Government hasn\u2019t really delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ECan I quote: Kelly Feng, the director of Asian Family Services, has stated recently in an article, \u201CCurrently, the Ministry of Health has no policy for Asian mental health, which means [absolutely] no strategy,\u201D. Can I also quote that the Asian suicide rate increased from 5.09 percent to 7.91 percent per 100,000 people in the year to June 2020. One suicide is one too many, and we need to take action. I\u2019ll also quote Auckland councillor Paul Young, who said, \u201CThe DHB mental health services need to find out the needs [of Asian people], not just give [it] translation services.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEven for translation services, let me tell my colleagues in the House that often during COVID-19, the translation services were done by volunteers within the ethnic communities. They weren\u2019t provided with money. They weren\u2019t provided with the budget that this Government seems to think that they have in fact spent on them. Ethnic communities often did it for nothing, because they were worried that their own communities would miss out on the information, the very information that this Government says they were being inclusive and being kind and had provided to all of New Zealand. A country of 5 million people living in harmony\u2014obviously not, because not all New Zealanders received the information, and if they were provided with that information, it came from their own community. It was done for nothing, a pittance\u2014nothing that the Government had in fact provided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Government needs to pay for comprehensive COVID-19 and health information in a variety of languages. Often when we sit in select committee, I have to remind members, and I know that my colleagues across the House will often see me doing this, that we need to include the Asian population, the ethnic population\u2014all of New Zealand\u2014and not just M\u0101ori and Pasifika, because when you stipulate, only M\u0101ori and Pasifika are given the attention. New Zealand is now a diverse country, and to think that there are many New Zealanders\u2014actually, if we look at the Asian population in Aotearoa New Zealand, it is the third largest, behind European and M\u0101ori, and it is projected to increase to 22 percent by 2038, surpassing M\u0101ori and Pacific population groups. They are the fastest-growing group, and yet their needs are often not met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs someone who is actually from that ethnic background, a minority in this country, I would like for this Government to pay a little bit more attention. When you have the Office of Ethnic Communities, which is going to become a ministry of ethnic communities, you would like to think that the actual upgrade will mean that there is going to be attention. But guess what? All of that is just a name change. It\u2019s still going to be under the Department of Internal Affairs. The finances are controlled by the Department of Internal Affairs. The actual work is just a change in name only, and that\u2019s what the ethnic communities are quite concerned about. When the Government said they are delivering for ethnic communities, I just would like to hope that it is not just lip service that they have been providing, like they did with COVID-19. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002262bc68088fbb4269b516744713154137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262bc68088fbb4269b516744713154137\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to lie: I breathed a sigh of relief when the household labour force survey was released today and we saw that, yet again, unemployment has dropped and we are now down to 4.7 percent. These are not easy times globally and many countries are struggling with respect to job losses, businesses are struggling with the pandemic around them, and of course that creates a range of other social issues. Earlier last year, when we were first hit with this pandemic, we had an incredibly bleak outlook. I think at its worst it was forecast that New Zealand would experience benefit numbers up to 490,000. But, instead, what we\u2019ve seen already is since mid-January, those numbers on benefit have dropped by 30,000\u2014from 390,000 people on benefit to 361,000\u2014and we will continue to watch that space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EBut, as my colleague who spoke earlier said, this is not by accident. Every action that we have taken as a Government has been deliberate. The wage subsidy that we were able to roll out and get to businesses, I think, within two weeks of announcing it saved so many businesses. It was a lifeline to so many businesses, and we hear that when we\u2019re out and about and we\u2019re talking to businesses. Of course that meant that as a consequence it saved so many jobs, and so that initial action, that early action, made a difference. Whether it be the resurgence payment, or whether it be the investment into infrastructure and the investment into upskilling and training opportunities, all of that has been deliberate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI do need to say that, yes, there have been challenges with COVID, but many of them were actually pre-existing challenges that were exacerbated by the fact that we were hit with the pandemic. It\u2019s not new that M\u0101ori and Pacific, whenever there is a crisis, are disproportionately impacted with regards to job loss. That\u2019s not new. It\u2019s not new that there are inequities within our health and education systems, and all too often, again, it\u2019s M\u0101ori and Pacific and disabled people, can I say, who are disproportionately affected. So many of those issues have been exacerbated because of COVID, and our response was, yes, in response to COVID, but bigger than that\u2014this is an opportunity for us to do a bit of a reset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs has been said so many times before, it is about building back better. It is about looking at some of the pre-existing challenges that we faced, whether it be housing, whether it be child poverty, whether it be inequities in our health and education system, or whether it be disproportionate numbers of M\u0101ori and Pacific that are unemployed or disadvantaged in the labour market. It is about a reset so we can build back better. This has provided us with an opportunity, and an opportunity that this team of 65 on this side of the House is very, very cognisant of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere is more work to do, and we haven\u2019t shied away from that, but what I will say is I\u2019m very proud of some of the programmes that we have implemented. I\u2019m very proud of the focus on trades and apprenticeships. I\u2019m proud of that for a number of reasons: one, because if we look back to the global financial crisis, where there wasn\u2019t this investment, we ended up with a whole lot of workforce shortages because of the fact that the previous Government didn\u2019t think to invest there. But also it will mean for those New Zealanders that get a chance to upskill and train so that in the longer term, their employment prospects are so much brighter and they are also in a position where employment is more sustainable and more likely to be secure, and they\u2019re able to earn more money for themselves and their wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI have said on so many occasions that when we look at something like employment, it\u2019s not just the Minister for employment\u2019s responsibility, or even the Minister who takes charge of the economy and has done such a good job\u2014our Minister of Finance. But we have a team on this side of the House, a team of Ministers that have been committed to this space. Whether it be the Minister of Education, the Minister for primary industries looking at what\u2019s needed in the horticulture industry, the Minister for Economic and Regional Development, the Minister for Pacific Peoples, or the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, all of us have been sitting at the table and thinking and working strategically to make sure that every action we take leads us to a place and that we do not end up in that very sad position that the forecasts had predicted but that we actually end up in a place where we build back better and New Zealand and New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220b788c47383a4bf7a39e082daa30826e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b788c47383a4bf7a39e082daa30826e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002263c475eefa85420f87e6bec7feda26ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263c475eefa85420f87e6bec7feda26ae\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te Mangai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Today, I am standing to talk about an issue that actually was relatively well highlighted in the Financial Stability Report as aired at the Finance and Expenditure Committee earlier today, which is the housing crisis, and we heard there from the Reserve Bank of New Zealand that they have an immense amount of focus on the need to stabilise our housing market because, at present, it poses a huge amount of risk to our financial system. Now, I\u2019ve spent oodles of time in this House speaking about this feedback loop which has created over successive Governments and through the likes of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s monetary policy almost a \u201Ctoo big to fail\u201D kind of mentality towards the approach we have been taking to ever-escalating house prices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust this week, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has posed the need to start talking about rent controls in Aotearoa New Zealand, because what we saw in response, in particular, to the Government\u2019s suite of tax changes to try and dampen the demand side of the supply and demand issues with regard to housing in this country was a huge number of property investors being wheeled out and talking about mum and dad investors and just how bad this was going to make things for those who own property in this country. But the part of the equation that the Green Party thinks was entirely neglected from that mainstream narrative and debate were mum and dad renters\u2014just renters, actually, as a matter of fact, because we know that a third of this country rent and we also know, based on Statistics New Zealand\u2019s data, that those renters are, typically, paying more of their income towards housing costs. But we also know that if you look at the distribution of homes in this country\u2014and I\u2019ve spoken about this before in the context of wealth inequality, because we know that the spread is such that the top 10 percent of this country owns 59 percent of the wealth, and the bottom half, the bottom 50 percent of New Zealanders, own just 2 percent. How that plays out in the housing market, noting that a third of people rent\u2014based on Real Estate Agents Authority New Zealand data\u2014is 30 percent of homes in this country are owned by people who own between four and more than 20 properties. You don\u2019t start to rebalance this issue or tilt that balance through timidity, but you do it through bold steps to address a problem that has been percolating for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo when we, as the Greens, have put questions to Ministers over the past two days that the House has been back in question time that we have been putting on the table the need for greater discussion for rent controls in Aotearoa, we\u2019ve heard in response from Ministers the need to keep monitoring this issue, noting, of course, the fact that over the past 10 years, we\u2019ve seen wages increase by 20 percent but rents increase\u2014far outpacing that\u2014by 50 percent. Ministers have told us of the need to just keep monitoring\u2014just keep monitoring this issue. In fact, they\u2019ve also thrown out the fact that they believe that we don\u2019t need to engage in this dialogue of rent controls because, in fact, if you look at the past year of 2020, rents only increased by\u2014based on their numbers\u20141.6 percent. But the logic that fails there is the fact that during that record low in the scheme of the past 10 years\u2019 increase in rental prices, we had a six-month rent freeze. That is demonstrative of these kinds of policies working. It shows us that we can do these things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EHere I just want to spend a brief period of time addressing a report produced by the New Zealand Initiative which I think is relatively economically and intellectually disingenuous in the way that it puts forward its arguments, stating, in particular, that in San Francisco with the introduction of rent controls\u2014what they said was that people were less mobile. But, in fact, if you talk to the majority of renters in this country, they would love some stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIn my electorate of Auckland Central, we have the highest rate of transience amongst renters. That has massive flow-on effects to the likes of the transience in schools that the National Party seems to be so concerned about. Then you also have the point made that in Cambridge, Massachusetts, when rent controls were removed in 1995, we saw a massive increase in rents by 45 percent\u2014again, an argument to continue down this pathway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe can do this. We have the willpower to do it, and we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220f12985ee72d4cc7be9813d54918432f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f12985ee72d4cc7be9813d54918432f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00222dee1f709ddc49f3af010071cb8275a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dee1f709ddc49f3af010071cb8275a7\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. The kaupapa for my k\u014Drero today is partnership. I find it really odd that in the seven years of being a member of this House, I stood in this House alongside what I at least would consider a giant in the Treaty settlement space. Minister Finlayson, for his time, premised much of the Treaty settlements under his watch under partnership\u2014not only just the ability to be able to settle grievance, but to establish new partnerships. In fact, this House passed many bills into legislation, making sure that M\u0101ori had partnership in many mechanisms through the settlement process, whether that be at council level, whether that be with Government agencies, or whether that be with the Government itself. We all stood in this House and supported those pieces of legislation, and, sadly, what we\u2019re seeing today from the National Party is dismissive of those achievements made by Minister Finlayson, but, more importantly\u2014and sadly\u2014actually attacking the kinds of partnerships we\u2019re growing on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EPartnership: it was partnership that got this country through COVID-19. What I mean by that is our Minister of Finance led a strong team that went into partnership with community. Why? Because community needed strong Government leadership to see them through COVID-19, and they\u2019re continuing to get that as we look into how we recover from COVID-19. That\u2019s our partnership with the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe other partnership: the Minister of Finance, along with this Government, partnered with business and sectors to make sure that their businesses were resilient and strong through a very difficult time, when the pandemic grabbed hold of this country. We continue that partnership with them today to make sure that our economy grows back stronger and better. We want to look towards the future, not like the National Party, who want to return to how it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAfter the pandemic lockdown and into the future, as we look towards how we grow back stronger and more resilient into the future, one key theme comes through, and that is partnership. Partnership is what\u2019s going to make sure that we have a health service that delivers for its people, and\u2014as the associate health Minister\u2014a M\u0101ori Health Authority will do that. In fact, under the Waitangi Tribunal investigation, under many of the investigations that have gone into the inequities M\u0101ori suffered under the health sector, it\u2019s been quite clear that in order for us to turn the dial on that, a partnership that sees an independent M\u0101ori Health Authority with a strong partnership with Health New Zealand can only lead to better outcomes for this country, and I am in support of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud of the leadership of the Minister of Health, the Hon Andrew Little, with respect to the health reforms. He saw the need for a strong partnership, not just between M\u0101ori and the Government, but M\u0101ori and the institutions of health that look after this country, and I\u2019m proud to support him. I\u2019m proud to support the work that he\u2019s doing and I\u2019m proud of his support for the M\u0101ori Health Authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe also meet quite regularly with another mechanism that was established under the National Government and that is the Iwi Chairs Forum. What are they screaming for? Partnership, and we\u2019re delivering that for them. In fact, I can\u2019t even remember the last time I saw a National member at any of those meetings with iwi chairs or in any progressive discussion with our iwi to develop a partnership to look at how we can make this country more resilient and stronger into the future. I am disappointed in that side of the House, and I look forward to proving them wrong and establishing a strong M\u0101ori Health Authority that will serve our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve set a tight time frame for our delivery of this particular kaupapa. We\u2019ve made it clear that within 13 months, the M\u0101ori Health Authority will deliver primary healthcare outcomes for our people\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b706d8f0effd481fac536b1da7ca24a4\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How will you measure it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6a73dc08fa493790217d6066d9838d\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we\u2019ll make sure that we\u2019ll measure it by showing that we\u2019ve turned around the inequities that were established and supported under that Government\u2014the National-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really excited. That side: their problem ever since they\u2019ve been in the Opposition benches is partnership. They can\u2019t find a partner. Their closest partner is more distant from them than ever before; in fact, one would argue they\u2019re leading them. Kia ora to the ACT Party\u2014that\u2019s partnership. The failure of National to be able to count numbers and have partners at the table is proof today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, partnership will lead us into the future. Partnership will make sure that post-COVID, this country is bigger, better, and stronger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00227bf54c46ea1d474a9f13b3d8c3f2392d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bf54c46ea1d474a9f13b3d8c3f2392d\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This Government is the greatest example of non-delivery since Trevor Chappell did his underarm delivery in 1981, and what is going to happen is the same thing as Brian McKechnie\u2014remember that scene? In utter disgust, he threw his bat away, and, I tell you, in 2023, the country of New Zealand is going to throw this Government out with such disdain because they talk through the hole in their head in terms of ambition and rhetoric, but what about delivery? Well, I tell you, their delivery is absolutely feeble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to talk about two or three things if I can get to them over my four minutes. Firstly, in internal affairs, a serious issue: a royal commission into historical abuse in State care. The budget last year was $23 million. Grant Robertson\u2019s expectation of the budget this year is the same number. What is it? It is $41.9 million\u201482 percent up in secretariat services. They then write a letter to the Minister and say, \u201CWe\u2019ve run out of money. We need another $20 million.\u201D He writes back and says, \u201CNo. Actually, you\u2019ve got to learn to live within your own budget, and I\u2019m appointing my Treasury officials to come and help you count your budget so you don\u2019t spend what\u2019s left.\u201D\u2014absolutely outrageous. Then, when the Minister Jan Tinetti gets tested on it, she says, \u201CIt\u2019s a learning curve.\u201D Well, I\u2019m sorry, but you\u2019re a Minister now. You\u2019re in charge of a multimillion-dollar budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t have time to learn on the job, frankly. You\u2019ve actually got to deliver. You have got to deliver now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYou talk about delivery\u2014$25 million down the toilet, just like that. And what\u2019s worse is it appears now that that mandate, the scope of that commission, is going to be constrained because of the Labour Government\u2019s inability to manage their books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThen we move across to trade. We have heard over the last few weeks from this Government around the importance of diversifying markets. Well, where is your Minister? Forget about hanging around on the West Coast. How about getting on a plane and getting up to Liz Truss\u2014his UK counterpart\u2014and actually negotiating a free-trade deal? Dan Tahan, from Australia, is. They expect it to be done by the end of June. Where is the Minister of trade? He\u2019s lost in Hokitika. He needs to front for New Zealand exporters and actually deliver a trade deal that creates some reality when you talk about diversity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s all very well to stand up in this House, as this Government does, and say, \u201COh, exporters are too reliant on China.\u201D Well, go and deliver a free-trade agreement with other countries so we have more choices. You only do that if you can have a face-to-face conversation, and when others around the world are, where is Damien O\u2019Connor? Where is he? He is not fronting. You need to front\u2014you need to leave the West Coast. I know he likes it, but for goodness\u2019 sake, you\u2019ve got a job to do on behalf of New Zealand exporters. Get over there, negotiate face to face, and actually achieve a free-trade agreement, not only with the UK but also with the EU, also with ASEAN, and also with the Pacific Alliance. You\u2019ve got a job to do. Show some urgency. We\u2019re not seeing it. It\u2019s pedestrian, and he needs to be called to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m on my feet, I want to talk to a local issue which is synonymous with this Government\u2019s inability to deliver. In 2016, we announced funding for the Tauranga Northern Link to go from Tauranga to \u014Cmokoroa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dcec49722474d58b3e575134cb53713\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: How far has it gone? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e0a4dc26d3b4744baa645fa046c3ccd\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: It has gone nowhere. Not only has it gone nowhere\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250e12ce33c6e464f86119396df166edf\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: It was not funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d711c7c2b09a434688e6a9aa5c5f0e4e\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it got stopped while it was out for tender, stopped by that Government, and Michael Wood sits there, as the new transport Minister, reflecting in his own accolades that somehow he\u2019s going to turn this ship around. Well, build a road, mate, and build one in Tauranga. Get it done. Stop fluffing about. Stop talking about it and stop saying, \u201CWell, now we\u2019re not actually sure that we\u2019re going to go to \u014Cmokoroa\u2014we\u2019re not sure.\u201D All these shovel-ready projects that they crowed about before the election to try to give people a sense that infrastructure was going to be prioritised\u2014where is it? It doesn\u2019t exist. They can\u2019t get the public sector to actually get up and procure and execute a roading strategy. They certainly can\u2019t in the Bay of Plenty\u2014fastest-growing area\u2014and, yet again, another community looks with increasing disdain at a party that talks a good game, but when it comes down to it, it fails and fails and fails to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1391e1b00e049a8a7520b6452284ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1391e1b00e049a8a7520b6452284ed0\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to start my comments today with a tribute to the late Brian Corban, the chairperson of KiwiRail and a great New Zealander who passed away suddenly and very sadly over the weekend. Mr Corban will be known to many members around the House. He is the kind of person who I think of as a genuine nation-builder, a man who had an incredibly successful commercial career but who then devoted much of his life to public service. At the time that he passed away, he was the chairperson of KiwiRail, but he held many other roles in recent times with Radio New Zealand, TVNZ, Genesis Energy, the Melanesian Mission, and many, many more which I won\u2019t take the time to mention here. I wish on behalf of the Government to pass on my condolences to his family and those who loved him very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBrian Corban, I note in particular, was the chair of KiwiRail who has really overseen the transformation of that organisation from a dried-out husk that had been run down over many years, asset-stripped, and run off the smell of an oily rag, to a burgeoning organisation that is revitalising parts of New Zealand from the North to the South. It was his leadership skills alongside some real political determination that have helped to turn that organisation around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do want to speak to some of the achievements and the delivery of this Government in respect of New Zealand\u2019s rail network, an organisation which was in a state of managed decline under the previous Government and which is now moving ahead to build a reliable and resilient network for the people and the regions of New Zealand. This is a Government that believes in investing across transport modes, and not being myopically focused on roads, as the other side of the House is. Yes, roads are important for many of our communities, but it is about building a transport network that is mode-neutral, in which people have real transport choices, in which we focus on bringing down our emissions, in which rail serves that nation-building focus that it always has for the regions of New Zealand going back to the 1880s, but that side of the House has just never ever seen it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s investment in rail has also been an important part of our COVID-19 recovery, giving investment and direction to our regions and employing thousands of New Zealanders. I want to speak briefly to some of the work that is under way as we speak, or recent deliveries to build that resilient and reliable network. Recently, I visited the work on the Third Main line, a critical rail project being delivered under the New Zealand Upgrade Programme between Wiri and Westfield in New Zealand. Absolutely essential to make sure that the flows of freight get through our biggest city and that we have an efficient commuter network for the people of T\u0101maki-makau-rau as well\u2014$300 million funded through the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, and that work is under way, employing 200 women and men on that project to deliver a critical piece of work for our rail network in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EVery soon, the work on electrifying the Papakura to Pukekohe line in Auckland will be getting under way as well, bringing the people of Pukekohe into the electrified commuter network and giving them real transport choices. There is $196 million under the New Zealand Upgrade Programme going into, as we speak, improving the Wellington commuter rail network. Again, lacking in investment for many, many years, and it has been this Government which has come forward to make sure that Wellington commuters have access to a reliable, efficient network to move them around our cities and to bust congestion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very proud that only about six weeks ago, with K\u012Bngi T\u016Bheitia and the Prime Minister, I was able to join them to launch the new Te Huia service between Hamilton and Auckland, restoring commuter rail between Auckland and Hamilton, one of New Zealand\u2019s fastest-growing economic and housing zones. As we know from the hoots on the other side of the House, that side has never backed that region in terms of its aspirations for a decent rail service, and perhaps that\u2019s one of the reasons that they lost the two Hamilton seats to Jamie Strange and Gaurav Sharma at the last election, because the people of Hamilton and Waikato are backing that service and they want to see it continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is proud of its investments in rail. We will shortly be announcing the New Zealand Rail Plan, a 10-year strategic plan to continue investing in rail to move people around our cities and regions, to move the freight efficiently, and to decarbonise our transport network. This Government believes in rail and believes in an integrated transport network for all of our people. It will continue to make the investments, will continue to deliver, and it\u2019s an important part of our recovery from COVID-19. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022e79dfe83de0c4935a42b7e22e084022e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e79dfe83de0c4935a42b7e22e084022e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday we learnt that the Government will set out an implementation unit to be run by the Deputy Prime Minister. The focus will be to ensure that the Government\u2019s plethora of announcements on mental health, infrastructure, housing, and climate change are actually delivered. Call me old-fashioned, but making sure Ministers deliver on a Government\u2019s promises used to be the job of the Prime Minister. But there\u2019s no accountability inside the Prime Minister\u2019s Cabinet, and that\u2019s partly because there\u2019s so little talent on the bench. You can\u2019t sack a Minister when there\u2019s nobody there to replace them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe have a marketing-led Government, and its Achilles heel is delivery. The Prime Minister announced in 2019 that it would be a year of delivery for the Government. It turns out no one had told the doctor and no one had booked a birthing suite. The year of delivery never arrived. We were promised 100,000 KiwiBuild homes over 10 years. Labour delivered just 871. In July 2020, Grant Robertson announced around 150 so-called shovel-ready projects, all able to start within the next six to 12 months\u2014an easy win for the Government because many of them were already under construction. They just needed more money. Few others have started. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe Government was going to plant a billion trees over 10 years. It turned out that of the hundred million a year, most of them would be private sector trees, and they\u2019re still not meeting their targets. Auckland light rail is still a pipedream, greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, the number of children living in poverty is stagnant, and that\u2019s why the Prime Minister wants to talk about COVID. It was a COVID election, with endless announcements from the Beehive theatrette\u2014anything to divert attention away from delivery. Only COVID-19 saved the Government from having to admit in an election year that they had delivered practically nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe most critical and important project sitting on the Government\u2019s list is the not even in the implementation unit\u2019s brief. New Zealanders were going to be at the front of the queue for COVID-19 vaccine. Fewer than 5 percent of us have been vaccinated, and we\u2019re second to last in the OECD. The world will soon start opening up and we are going to be left behind at this rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut here\u2019s the real issue: the Government doesn\u2019t trust the private sector. They don\u2019t like the private sector. There\u2019s virtually no commercial experience in this Cabinet. It ignores the advice of the private sector with the skills and experience to actually contribute and deliver. They ignore the advice of businesses most likely to be affected by delays and uncertainties and the loss of productivity that\u2019s associated with this Government\u2019s failure to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThere has been virtually no private sector involvement in the COVID-19 response. Grant Robertson said this implementation unit is needed because the Government is delivering projects that are complex and across departments. Well, it must come as a surprise to the Government and the infrastructure Minister that almost every single infrastructure project crosses multiple asset-owners and affects multiple stakeholders\u2014surprise! The private sector knows how to deliver stuff, and the fact that it\u2019s been frozen out by this Government is one reason of many why it has failed on so many fronts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the reality: the so-called implementation unit will change nothing until this Government changes its attitude to the private sector. We could make progress on so many of our country\u2019s issues if we look beyond the Wellington bureaucracy, whether it\u2019s harnessing the energy and knowledge of local organisations who want to run charter schools and engage kids who\u2019ve been underserved by local State schools, whether it\u2019s replacing the Resource Management Act so that the private sector can get on with the business of building houses, or whether it\u2019s better collaboration with the private sector to deliver better hospitals and elective surgery. The New Zealanders who live outside the Wellington bureaucracy often have better knowledge about how to get results. That is why it is the most cynical abuse of power for this Government to announce it has the plan or the solution when it has no real idea or intention to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAlmost every announcement, whether on infrastructure, climate, or mental health, is simply a political magic wand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228172690dc7ba47c29df84dac8e6a8098\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228172690dc7ba47c29df84dac8e6a8098\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! When I say \u201COrder! Your time has expired\u201D, I mean it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to give the member a warning: do not read a speech again in the general debate. I didn\u2019t interrupt him\u2014the member is new\u2014but that\u2019s the last time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00223941fc7a58e3456f8c6fbeab67397d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223941fc7a58e3456f8c6fbeab67397d82\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, what a misery guts! The last speaker is such a misery guts because, really, to suggest that this Government was saved by its outstanding COVID-19 response\u2014how about joining together with a bit of real partnership and recognising that all New Zealanders and all parliamentarians really worked together to create a fantastic response, which has seen New Zealand in a very, very strong position\u2014a position that is in the top three or four nations in the world, a position where our economy is resilient and prepared for a recovery, a position where we heard the Minister say that unemployment is falling and people in employment is growing. Where in the world can you say that? The average OECD unemployment rate: 6.7 percent. That\u2019s problematic. That\u2019s not a healthy economy. Here, today: 4.7 percent. That\u2019s where we were in 2017. We\u2019re in the same place post-COVID as we were in post-National. Isn\u2019t that fantastic? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, here we are: GDP is 0.9 percent behind where we were a year ago\u2014a tiny fraction. Now, look, and here we are. The US is 2.4 percent down, the UK is 7.3 percent down\u2014compare ourselves with our peers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c98b93b5194f0881c04ee764b1c9a6\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: 7.3\u20147? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229744eaebc253484c9690d7831385c7fd\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: 7.3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a6837d0bea4424b2460fd8e899f8e7\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: What! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6747ae6e4049d29abb8277d5430f3c\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I know. And here we are, and what\u2019s the projection? Good. What did the financial stability report say? That we have a resilient economy, but there are risks ahead. But you know what? We\u2019re well prepared for those risks. We\u2019re well prepared because we\u2019ve got a Minister of Finance who\u2019s going to deliver a Budget in two weeks\u2019 time that is a responsible Budget, a careful Budget, one which focuses on the things which are important. It\u2019s important that it\u2019s a long-term Budget, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick stood up and talked about housing, and she was right to do so. We know that there\u2019s a problem with housing in New Zealand, and housing affordability in particular, and that\u2019s going to be a focus of the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EChild wellbeing\u2014we know we\u2019re working on child wellbeing and child poverty, and we\u2019re making progress. That will continue to be a focus for this Government, and rightly so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other big long-term challenge: climate change. We\u2019re absolutely working on climate change. We will make progress on climate change, and, I\u2019ll tell you what, we\u2019re certainly not going to sit on our hands, like the National Government did for nine years, and sit on a broken system. We fixed that system, and James Shaw has done a great job in getting the climate change legislation in place and getting the auction framework in place and actually making progress where the last Government did nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI must say I\u2019m very happy that under the last Government, we reached an accord with the farming sector, who, with this Government in partnership\u2014as Minister Henare said, partnership is the way to do things, not by conflict. In partnership with the farming community, this Government will move forward on climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s more is you can even take a holiday\u2014some across the other side look like they might need it. But because we\u2019ve had a great response, we can now meet our partners in Australia, meet our friends in the Cook Islands, take a bit of rest and relaxation, and help those economies as well, and, especially, help our Pacific neighbours. I\u2019m really proud of the stance we\u2019ve taken in respect of the vaccine roll-out in the Pacific and that we\u2019re going to take a leadership role in there. So we can go to the Cooks and spend there, just like New Zealanders are spending here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe have such good confidence that retail spending is up. What\u2019s more, so is investment confidence. Investor sentiment is high. People are employing. People are spending on fixed assets. They\u2019re actually expanding their businesses. Look at the work we\u2019re doing in apprenticeships. We\u2019ve got 17 percent more apprenticeships than we did have a year ago\u2014fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe live in a volatile world. We know that there\u2019s storms on the horizon\u2014China, India, Europe\u2014but we\u2019re well placed. Our markets are well placed because we\u2019re taking a responsible approach and building for the future, building our human capital with things like the apprenticeships framework but also our fantastic health reforms. What a fantastic health reform to partner with all of our communities\u2014M\u0101ori communities and wider communities\u2014to deliver better outcomes for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really looking forward to 20 May. I\u2019m going to have a great day. I hope you will too. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd2fc82616154e529329fd03990158f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd2fc82616154e529329fd03990158f4\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was a bit of a try-hard speech from one of the members of the Government, wasn\u2019t it? They\u2019re trying hard to explain how much the Government\u2019s doing, trying hard to try to prove that they\u2019re actually getting stuff done, but, actually, the reality is very different. This Government has this week announced an implementation unit where they\u2019re going to try hard again, try to get things done in this Government, on a whole range of things. Well, the implementation unit should be called Cabinet. Cabinet should be held responsible to actually get things done, but the problem with this Government is Cabinet doesn\u2019t know how to get things done, and Duncan Webb\u2019s just given us a five-minute lesson on a Government which has no idea on how to actually get things done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to talk about how this Government is failing to deliver when it comes to keeping New Zealanders safe. New Zealanders are feeling less safe. Our police are feeling less respected, and they are not getting the resources that they have been promised that they would have had delivered under this Government. This Government promised 1,800 new police over three years to be on the beat, helping to keep New Zealanders safe. They still haven\u2019t even reached 1,400 new police here in New Zealand. They promised that of that 1,800, 700 were to be focused on keeping us safe from gangs and organised crime. They\u2019ve only delivered 240\u2014240\u2014of those officers on the beat, and where\u2019s the plan? Where\u2019s the plan to deliver the remainder of those officers, because what we know is gangs are recruiting faster than the police in New Zealand, and that is something which is concerning more and more New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThere we have it: we have the Government\u2019s major operation, Operation Tauwhiro, an operation tasked to crack down on gangs and illegal firearms, because we know that the gangs have not handed back their guns. The Mongrel Mob has not handed back their guns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo they announced a major operation to crack down on gangs, and what have we seen? We\u2019ve seen a Minister of the Crown turn up to the Mongrel Mob gang pad to try and have a cup of tea and a k\u014Drero and to condone and to give credence to what this gang does. We know the Mongrel Mob hasn\u2019t handed back their guns. We know they continue to deal meth on our streets, and it is absolutely outrageous that no Minister in the Government has condemned the Minister for the prevention of sexual offending turning up to the Mongrel Mob gang pad and giving a speech in front of all of the mobsters there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt asks the question: what are the measures of success for Operation Tauwhiro? Is it actually to crack down on gangs in New Zealand, or is it just another PR exercise by this Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2eee6e152649e5ba3d76031fd364b5\u0022\u003EHon Poto Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the police aren\u2019t going to like you saying that about their hard work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249783783ea0b4fbe80b40ba7396ef4d4\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It asks the question\u2014well, the Minister of Police is interjecting. I ask her to take a call and condemn the Minister for the prevention of sexual offending. I ask her to take a call\u2014stand up and condemn her for going to a gang pad on Saturday and endorsing and giving credence to the violence they perpetrate on our streets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI ask the question: is it part of Operation Tauwhiro for Ministers of the Crown to turn up to gang pads and to give speeches endorsing what they do? I have an Official Information Act request here from the police, where I\u2019ve asked them, \u201CWhat are the measures of success? What are the things that they are going to be doing?\u201D Well, firstly, interestingly enough, the press release from the police in February said that all districts would have tailored initiatives focused on how they were going to target gangs. Well, I would expect, two months into a six-month operation, that all districts would have a tailored initiative. Well, guess what! Only five districts have got tailored initiatives in place so far\u2014only five districts. Two months in, and only five districts have actually got a tailored initiative. I think that\u2019s absolutely unacceptable and a failure to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut it gets worse. You go to the Tasman District and you find out what they\u2019re tasked to be doing, and you\u2019d think, \u201CWell, they\u2019d be going and raiding some gangs down there.\u201D They\u2019ve had a 177 percent increase in gang membership under this Government, the fastest increase of any police district in New Zealand. I read it and it says, \u201CThe Tasman District Police will have ongoing communication and work with gang leaders to bring about long-term change.\u201D The police should be out arresting these gang members, not sitting down and having a k\u014Drero and a cup of tea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis Government is not keeping New Zealanders safe, and I ask the Minister of Police to take a call and condemn Marama Davidson for her outrageous and unbelievable act of turning up to the Mongrel Mob gang pad\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00222ff5feb992bb4e8eb966cca5b7f5d1bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ff5feb992bb4e8eb966cca5b7f5d1bb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u00229ad9e369769a40c2ba3e5ab271993af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ad9e369769a40c2ba3e5ab271993af8\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m absolutely delighted to have the opportunity to speak, following what might have been a rare misstep by Simeon Brown, because I am so proud\u2014so proud\u2014to be a part of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EI\u2019m especially proud and grateful to stand here as the member of Parliament for Ilam, because Ilam has played a pivotal role in keeping New Zealanders safe from COVID-19. The moment you land at Christchurch Airport, you find yourself in Ilam and you know that you\u2019re in safe hands. Four out of six of our managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) facilities in Christchurch are in Ilam, and, of course, we can\u2019t fault the staff at the airport itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EI just wanted to take a moment to express my profound gratitude to all of the staff at our MIQ facilities, but in particular, of course, those in Ilam. I\u2019d like to reference Michael Patterson, who is the manager of the Commodore Hotel, who I\u2019ve met with recently and who expressed gratitude for the fact that the Government was in fact running MIQ facilities through these hotels, which has enabled them to survive since this virus hit our shores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EWe also have a testing facility at Orchard Road. It\u2019s a big testing facility, and I, again, want to express my gratitude to all of the staff members there. They\u2019re part of a testing regime through Canterbury DHB that\u2019s processed 68,782 tests, which I think you\u2019ll agree is a large amount of tests and a good commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EI also wanted to express gratitude to the team of 5 million. But I\u2019m going to revise that to the team of 4,999,967. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud, too, of this Government for taking decisive, swift, and effective action, which has accelerated our economic recovery. The wage subsidy has supported 197,000 jobs in Canterbury alone in the first week of the 12-week roll-out. Businesses like Untouched World in Ilam, run by an extraordinary woman CE and founder, Peri Drysdale, described as a treasured Canterbury company\u2014we have our own manufacturing facility there in Christchurch, in Ilam. They were beneficiaries of the wage subsidy for the first two rounds and have also used other support packages from the Government to re-position their business to create masks. They\u2019re producing a lot of masks\u2014very high-quality masks\u2014and they have a great reputation for having the best masks in the business. They\u2019re quoted as saying the support that they received would \u201Cmake the climb out of this much more effective\u201D. I quote Peri in saying it \u201Cset [them] up for growth\u201D, and that\u2019s what we want. We want us to set up for growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EThe strategic asset funding and the Department of Conservation funding, as well as the wage subsidy, has kept our penguins alive in the International Antarctic Centre. They say that without Government funding, they would have had to shut their doors and go into hibernation. I don\u2019t know an awful lot about penguins, but I\u2019m not sure they\u2019re supposed to hibernate, and, obviously, they have to be kept fed so that they can be entertaining everybody in Christchurch, domestic and international tourists alike, whilst the International Antarctic Centre provides an extraordinary education, actually making us better informed about our environment, conservation, our precious seas, and, obviously, our resource of Antarctica\u2014to which, you\u2019ll be aware, Ilam is, through Christchurch Airport, one of the few gateways in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EThe school holiday period for the International Antarctic Centre has been good. Things are looking up, but they do still need ongoing support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud, too, of the controlled, thoughtful, and flexible border reopening. I\u2019m looking forward to enjoying more family reunions as we continue to keep New Zealanders safe. I\u2019m looking forward to encouraging international tourists as well as, obviously, domestic tourists back into our outstanding attractions like Orana Wildlife Park and the International Antarctic Centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EThank you so much, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity of expressing how proud and grateful I am of being part of this Government, and how we\u2019re continuing to keep New Zealanders safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbe3e912a4a44faaa903450c7a289852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbe3e912a4a44faaa903450c7a289852\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in Committee for consideration of the Immigration (COVID-19 Response) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea8089eb51754733bafdc6ecc6f1f0f0\u0022\u003EImmigration (COVID-19 Response) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0a85f2b3a174270b070d3e2e4638d45\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0bbc975e634450b841b6b7c1d0519ce\u0022\u003EPart 1  Temporary powers relating to visas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc6631b5bd2c43939bdd262b9488bfd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc6631b5bd2c43939bdd262b9488bfd9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee on the Immigration (COVID-19 Response) Amendment Bill. Members, we come to the first part, Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 4 to 16, \u201CTemporary powers relating to visas\u201D. The amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 32, in the name of Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, is out of order as outside the scope of the bill. The member, therefore, cannot speak on that amendment. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022b639c2af8277498ea47e1fee016e281b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b639c2af8277498ea47e1fee016e281b\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Can I begin by giving a little bit of context as to why the bill that we are amending was passed roughly this time last year. Obviously, earlier in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Government made\u2014[Change of Chairperson] that was very swift\u2014one of the biggest and best decisions it could make. It was not an easy decision to make, to make sure that our population kept safe, and that was to close our border in order to put a protective armour around our country to keep New Zealanders safe and to keep COVID-19 out of our country. Obviously, by taking that relatively unprecedented action, the need to regulate the flow of people and also cohorts of groups of visa holders in New Zealand and those outside of New Zealand was necessary, and it had to be done in a different way. The purpose of the original bill and the current Act was to ensure that we could deal with some of those cohorts as groups and not as individuals, because you could imagine the logistical nightmare that Immigration New Zealand would have if we were dealing with changes of visas with people who are in the country on an individual basis. The time that it would take and the resources it would take would have been troublesome, and it would have certainly overwhelmed the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo the bill passed last year, which we are amending through this stage, gives the Government and the Minister of Immigration eight powers, and those powers have to be linked to responding to the COVID-19 pandemic. Those powers are to \u201Cvary or cancel conditions for classes of resident visa class holders; to impose, vary, or cancel conditions for classes of temporary entry visa class holders: [thirdly] waive any regulatory requirements for certain classes of application \u2026 grant visas to individuals and classes of people in the absence of an application: extend the expiry dates of visas for classes of people: waive the requirement to obtain a transit visa in an individual case, or suspend a transit visa waiver made by regulations in an individual case: certify immigration instructions under which an immigration officer may revoke the entry permission of a person who has been detained by regulations made under the principal Act to have been granted entry permission: make regulations suspending the ability to make applications for visas or to submit expressions of interest in applying for visas by classes of people.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Education and Workforce Committee for their very prudent work under time constraints for this piece of legislation. I do note, having had a look at some of the reports that came out of the select committee hearings, that quite a broad number of stakeholders came and gave submissions, and I thank all of them for taking the opportunity to talk either to the issues that they are facing or to the substance in the bill. I would also note now two Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) that have been put before the House both in the name of Erica Stanford. In essence, Supplementary Order Paper 30 is to reduce the extension of the bill from the current proposal of two years to an extension of the current laws and powers in the bill to one. Then Supplementary Order Paper 31, in essence, is to enforce a 28-day rule of enforcement of any special directions or regulations that may come about of the powers that are afforded to the Minister of Immigration and the Government within this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t hear the contributions of the Opposition in the second reading speeches\u2014the quality of them is not for me to judge\u2014but I understand that the Opposition may be predicating its further support on whether or not those two SOPs will pass. I want to put the Opposition members out of their misery nice and early in this debate, because I know that\u2014pre-empting a question\u2014the Government will not be supporting those SOPs. I understand that those issues were relatively well thrashed out and debated in the select committee process and submissions were received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut in order to deal with Supplementary Order Paper 31, which goes to the adding of a 28-day rule, what we have found when we are making decisions about using special directions, for example, is that having the flexibility in our response is important and in a small number of instances, some of the changes had to be made quite quickly in order to take action for cohorts of people who we were making decisions for. Including the 28-day rule within the purview of all the decisions that are made would take away that flexibility for us. So, in that respect, the Government won\u2019t be supporting Supplementary Order Paper 31. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThen to go to pre-empt some of the questions that may come from the Opposition around truncating the extension of the current bill from two years to one, there is a simple answer to that. I know some concerns have been raised, but even in the short time since we had our first reading, COVID-19 has taken an even tighter hold in some countries. So just how long we will be dealing with this pandemic and to have the current border settings as they are is a question mark. So in order to make sure that we do have the tools and do have a flexibility to deal with this ongoing issue, we believe that two years gives us the ability to make the kinds of changes that we need to, that the powers within the current Act give us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo I hope that will deal with some of the questions that might come from the Opposition at some stage. Happy to let the committee stage lie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00226e574ceb6ca9409c8f0f40026d6995d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e574ceb6ca9409c8f0f40026d6995d3\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I have to say I\u2019m very disappointed that the Minister doesn\u2019t go back and look at my speeches on demand. I thought that\u2019s what he did in the evenings\u2014clearly not. But as it turns out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222faeb6d2ba7d482995ff1f814c409ff1\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: He does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b40f746b7c4a2daee168c635f54729\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I bet he does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e070b6965c654eb5985fef71e8327773\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Not yet, not yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c748c32b700145ca9e871943863d5733\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: One day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb56527caf94b78a7022b7daf30c30d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b46731a602143f281fcab30ec049e35\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: But as it turns out not only did he not listen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228400c40aeed0451fb2ef0b453faa4cb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a93a12ff7642d191b666d574de689a\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to my speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8e0743587f45b38eeceea7a7f6d062\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You sit down when I stand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022358a6450a3f44549b5f4273fe7794feb\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e836f430897c4987a5e708986aba4ace\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister knows he should not be interjecting from the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077056015fa94610b4650d37510dc3e0\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0bf6b8fb7bd4e7a96739b863113a78b\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right, a bit of banter. As it turns out, not only did the Minister not listen to my speech, it turns out he also didn\u2019t read Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 31 in my name all the way through, because if he had he would have seen at the bottom it says, \u201Cthat special directions commence no earlier than 28 days after publication unless the Minister is satisfied that extraordinary circumstances exist to justify earlier commencement.\u201D Now, that bit there allows the Minister, when there are circumstances that require him to be nimble and flexible in the small amount of cases\u2014in his own words\u2014that exist from time to time, to require less than 28 days. He would have the ability to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to come back to this later because I didn\u2019t want to start with that because it\u2019s probably not the most important thing. What our support hinges on, in fact, Minister, is not both of the SOPs\u2014although, this is a very important one\u2014but actually the two-year time frame that he\u2019s giving himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI just want to remind the House of some of the important details around this two years. We have to remember, from the Cabinet paper that we\u2019ve seen, that the Minister went to Cabinet actually wanting no expiry date, no sunset clause. His backup was three years. He ended up getting two. It\u2019s important to note that he took this Cabinet paper, asking for no sunset clause, on 22 March this year. If he\u2019d got his way and there was no sunset clause, we would\u2019ve had an extremely truncated process\u2014like we ended up having\u2014for no sunset clause at all, which is a huge grab of power, transfer from the officials to the Minister with effectively no sunset clause and no safeguard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b94af5e4b345d49313b6be8c35b4a2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019ll just stop the member. We\u2019re debating in committee the bill as it was approved at second reading. It\u2019s not appropriate for the member to be debating something that\u2019s not in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022211a66ac34814655b878d8af2df908bd\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll get to my point. The point, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a7df4f2cbf4240b5fa130bc392c4ca\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll make a good Speaker that guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262a2dcb0ef2b47948d2d932405e7129d\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! The point, Mr Speaker, that I was getting to\u2014took a wee while there\u2014is that the Minister ended up with two years, which is what we\u2019ve got. The Regulations Review Committee wrote to us specifically asking us to make sure that we were happy that we had enough information as to why two years was required. That is a red flag from the Regulations Review Committee. Now, we weren\u2019t satisfied in the select committee\u2014the National Party weren\u2019t satisfied\u2014that we had enough of that detail. So I want to get into that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIf you take a look at the first reading speech, the second reading speech, and both legislative statements from the Minister\u2014in all of those speeches and statements that he gave\u2014he only ever committed a very small part of those quite long speeches and statements to the reasons why two years was required. Now, this is really important because this is what the whole crux of this comes down to. It\u2019s not the power but how long he\u2019s got it for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, the New Zealand Law Society themselves said that they weren\u2019t satisfied that enough reasons were given. We weren\u2019t satisfied that enough reasons were given. The only reason the Minister has given us is that COVID still exists\u2014that was the first thing. The second thing that he said was he didn\u2019t want to have to bring the bill back to the House later this year\u2014having a bill two times in one year. Now, that\u2019s not our fault; that\u2019s the Minister\u2019s fault for only bringing the Cabinet paper, as I referred to earlier, in March this year, when he should have taken it last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is this is a huge transfer of power, and we want to know why, other than just COVID still exists\u2014which, by the way, a year ago compared to now is extremely different and in a year\u2019s time it will be different again, which is what all the submitters said. So my question\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair, I\u2019ll finish it up. My question to the Chair is\u2014I want him to stand up and explain to us in detail why he needs two years other than just one. Because every single submitter to this bill who was an organisation, every single one\u2014there wasn\u2019t one that said anything different; they all wanted one year rather than two. There wasn\u2019t a single submitter\u2014oh, sorry, one submitter wanted six months. But there wasn\u2019t a single organisation, not one, that backed the Minister up, and he ignored all of that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to know from the Minister what overarching reason there is, because the Regulations Review Committee have asked us specifically and we\u2019re not happy with what we\u2019ve had so far. I\u2019d like in detail why two years over one, and I don\u2019t want to hear, \u201CWe don\u2019t want to bring it back to the House.\u201D Because, actually, that\u2019s just inconvenient for you, but, actually, this House deserves it. Other than, \u201CWell, COVID\u2019s still around.\u201D\u2014COVID\u2019s going to be around for a really long time, but it doesn\u2019t mean that we transfer the Minister these powers for ever. There has to be a point where he gets his department to a point where they can process visas in the way that they normally would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe Minister never came to this House and gave us figures of how many people\u2014this is prior to last night\u2014were still onshore or the capacity of the workers at Immigration New Zealand to be able to do their jobs. His argument in the first passing of this bill last year was \u201CThere are 350,000 people onshore and none of my officers can work from home.\u201D And we agreed with that and we voted unanimously to transfer these powers to the Minister. But none of those arguments, not a single one, was brought up this time, and they were the main reasons for him to have this power in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhy was it, Minister, that you never came to this House and said, \u201CHere are the number of people onshore now\u201D\u2014because we know a whole lot left\u2014\u201Cand here\u2019s the capacity of my staff in the Department\u201D? Not one single time have we heard from this Minister or his staff as to why\u2014with all of those immigration officials back at work\u2014they now can\u2019t process visas as they normally would. Let\u2019s remember that they\u2019re processing 450,000 fewer applications than they were in 2019 across four categories and there\u2019s only, what, a couple of hundred thousand people onshore? Why is it, Minister, that your officials can\u2019t do the job as they normally would?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis is a huge transfer of power. I think this House deserves an explanation given that those were the reasons you originally asked for the bill\u2014an explanation as to why you never came to this House until we basically brought it up and said, \u201CHey, by the way, you haven\u2019t given us any figures.\u201D He did, at the last minute last night, and has never talked about the capacity of his immigration officials to do their job. It\u2019s not OK to say, \u201CI don\u2019t want to bring the bill back, because it\u2019s inconvenient for me.\u201D It is a huge transfer of power and we expect that this House has the safeguard of one year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe other point I\u2019d like to make is that it was always trumpeted as a one-year safeguard because of the truncated nature of the first select committee. Well, the second select committee was truncated as well; a lot of people didn\u2019t get to have their say. So, again, a one-year sunset clause would be a perfect safeguard for this bill, and yet the Minister has come asking for two. No credible reasons have been given to satisfy this side of the House as to why this bill is needed and certainly hasn\u2019t given us any response that we could give back to the Regulations Review Committee to say, \u201CActually, yes, we\u2019re satisfied.\u201D Because we\u2019re absolutely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo I want to be very clear: I want the Minister to be able to tell us today why he needs these powers for two years rather than one given that all of the submitters wanted one year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00224d885975f8b24f0d87cba35f044122b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d885975f8b24f0d87cba35f044122b5\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just going to speak very briefly and add my thoughts to this. The Minister has asked for a two-year extension of the extraordinary powers, and, as we\u2019ve heard, he is not accepting one year. I think it is fairly obvious that the circumstances that New Zealand will be in over the next two years will be vastly different to when the original Act came into force. So I also ask: why is the Minister asking for two years? What is the basis for that power grab? What is the motivation? What is really going on in the immigration space, behind the scenes? And how does this all fit into a long-term, hypothetical immigration reset\u2014whatever that means?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI have previously questioned the outcomes of the original legislation over the past year. They have been totally insufficient in addressing the critical needs of migrants, employers, and New Zealand at large. In particular, the state of the skilled migrant category, which we\u2019ve spoken about, is an utter disgrace. So I\u2019d like to know how the Minister plans on using his powers in fixing it. If the Minister has the temerity to ask Parliament for two more years of extraordinary powers, then I think he owes us this explanation. The debilitating situation for so many thousands of migrants cannot go on. I do wonder and worry what the Government has in store. If the Minister wants two more years, how about giving the people of New Zealand an explanation as to his thinking for both this bill and long term? Is it good news or just more bad news? Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55b228444004156a41d2f4538f0c780\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55b228444004156a41d2f4538f0c780\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I might just take the opportunity to address a couple of the issues, because I think I may have addressed most of the questions that were asked in my opening statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe powers in this legislation have been framed as a power grab. Now, if they could have any negative effect on people, then I guess that concern in some way might be valid. But in order for us to use these powers within this bill, it cannot have any negative effect on any class of visa holder. So, in fact, the powers that we are asking to extend here\u2014and alleged to be using in a power grab\u2014can only be used to positively benefit visa class holders. We have used it on a number of occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo for those of you who may be listening\u2014or watching, if you\u2019ve stumbled on to Parliament TV this evening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a72d63fcad404ca81ff71cacbea646\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Change channels!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a468136bd54b4f3886ee0108d439c5ff\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, please do, especially if the Opposition is going to drag this out! Any connotation that this is some kind of power grab, I would push back against. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAgain, going to the issue that is in Supplementary Order Paper 30, one of the reasons why we believe this needs to be two years, I will reiterate, is the global issues that continue to rage outside of New Zealand and the reality of what bringing back a piece of legislation that we would only have in force for one year would be, for this House\u2014I don\u2019t think that we should be using the time of very busy officials or the time of this House to be back here in September revisiting some of these issues to extend it for another 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand, towards the end of last year, backed the Government to make the right decisions around our border settings to keep us safe, and they trust us that we are making the right decisions, in order that they can live with relative freedom at a time when things in the rest of the world are markedly different. Even in the first reading speeches from the Opposition, we did hear from some of their members that they did think that, when we used the discretion and the powers that are given to us in the Act that we are amending today, we had used them well. So any suggestion that a power grab is being enacted by extending this legislation actually doesn\u2019t bear out from what has actually happened, and people on that side of the House, to my left, have actually agreed with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThat again goes to the fact that the people of New Zealand have entrusted us, again, with a responsibility to keep that armour around the country and to have the settings of that right to keep us safe. So all of those things in totality mean that we want to ensure that we have these powers for whatever length of time we believe is necessary\u2014and at this stage it is two years\u2014to keep the country safe. If anyone in this hall has got a crystal ball about how long they think the COVID-19 pandemic situation is going to last for, I would happily buy it off you. But I would hazard a guess that we will be in a similar position with our border settings in a year, and therefore we will need to continue having the flexibility that is within this bill to make the decisions that we have been trusted and will continue to be trusted to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00221cec3b776c034e8c8788f3d5c8c3aaea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cec3b776c034e8c8788f3d5c8c3aaea\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I didn\u2019t get the answer to my questions, so I\u2019m going to ask them again, because the Minister has reiterated what he said the whole time, which is just \u201CCOVID\u201D. But actually the arguments in the first place, the arguments he came up with in the first place, were why it was that Immigration New Zealand couldn\u2019t process these visas themselves. He said last year it was because they were all at home and we were in lockdown and they couldn\u2019t process as they normally would. That is not the case now. This is not about keeping people safe in COVID. This is about the department being able to process visas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhy is it that they are unable to do that? They are now back at work. That was one of the single biggest arguments a year ago as to why this bill was required. And we agreed with the Minister, because those officials were at home and they were unable to do their job, and we got that. They are now back at work. Why is it that they are not able to process visas as they normally would, given that their workload has significantly dropped off, because there\u2019s 450,000 less applications going through at the moment\u2014why is it? And I\u2019ll keep talking to give the Minister time to chat with his officials. Why is it that they can\u2019t do their job as they normally would?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAnd also, why is it that it took until last night for the Minister to come forward with the information around the number of people who are on shore, given that that was such an important reasoning in the first place? But the main question here is: why is it that these visas can\u2019t be processed in the normal way that they would be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba020bc8e3dc4f639bf6e0e2ec47b3ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba020bc8e3dc4f639bf6e0e2ec47b3ae\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not sure how that\u2014and maybe I might be wrong\u2014pertains to any clauses in the bill, but I\u2019m happy to address some of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b91b3024928443a798ab5e3272936974\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, how magnanimous of you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221405992b5acd444c90ed38f5d5dffdcc\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Are you done? So I think the question goes to a fundamental misunderstanding of what is going on with the immigration system and the processing system at the moment. Yes, we aren\u2019t able to process visas for people offshore, because the border restrictions are in place. The member may have noticed, though, that there is a border exception regime in place. A lot of the resource that is taken up for some of the very complex processing of visas is actually being taken up by assessing the large volume of border exception applications that are coming into New Zealand. I think I\u2019m right in saying that, as of about two weeks ago, 135,000 people went through managed isolation. Roughly 10 percent of those came into the country on a border exception. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t just take an application and rubber stamp those and say you can come into the country. The process is that there are very strict criteria\u2014given the border closures at the moment, as to whether or not people who don\u2019t have the absolute right to come into New Zealand\u2014they have to meet in order to get a border exception and to be able to come into the country. The criteria vary depending on whether you are wanting to come here for six months or over six months or some other humanitarian or cultural reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAll of those applications have to be processed, and they are not simple processes. They are complex processes. And sometimes, as with a lot of visa applications, some of that information is incomplete. So it does take some time to get through that process. And the people who would otherwise be processing visas as per normal are doing a lot of that border exception work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECan I thank them for that. They are under extreme pressure. As you can imagine, there are plenty of businesses, communities who would like either workers or their loved ones to come to New Zealand for some reason, and I\u2019m sure that that issue will come up at some stage during the debate. But that work is being done by that processing staff, and I want to take my hat off to them for doing that work, which is new work for them, obviously under extreme pressure because the volume of those applications is large.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad719395374242acb9ed7af16c43fbdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad719395374242acb9ed7af16c43fbdb\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. We\u2019re OK with the extension of the two years and the extension of those powers, but I think it\u2019s really important that there is direction in the way that those powers are used and that those powers are used responsibly. One of my concerns and one of our concerns is that, if you use those powers to just plaster over the cracks, people start to fall in those cracks. The mandate of those powers is actually an opportunity to deal with the inaccuracies and the cracks within the system that are already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWith the COVID crisis, we know that there are people here who have been overstayers, people who have been on temporary visas, and the COVID crisis has exacerbated the material conditions of those people as well. So to me it\u2019s like this two-year extension argument that we\u2019re having here is a solution looking for a problem. I would suggest that the problem that we need to be addressing here is helping to create pathways to residency for those people who have been caught here\u2014creating a broad amnesty programme for people who have been overstaying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI understand that there\u2019s around about 14,000 people who are overstayers in this country as well. A large number of those people are essential workers who helped get us through the COVID crisis. Also, a large number of them are Pasifika people as well; so it would embed the relationship with Aotearoa and with the wider Pacific, as well. I think these powers should be directed in that way. I think it would go a long way in addressing the inconsistencies within the immigration system, and I think that is a good way for you to move ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022d009d081d97a4fe7813c913cc238189e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d009d081d97a4fe7813c913cc238189e\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Can I thank the member for that contribution and acknowledge that the safeguards that are in the bill that we\u2019re amending remain, and certainly the powers that are within the bill that we hope to extend, we have, I believe, used extremely responsibly over the last 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut I did want to take his speech as an opportunity to acknowledge some of the issues that are related to the likes of those who don\u2019t have regular immigration statuses at the moment in the context of what we\u2019re trying to do to make sure that people are safe. I want to take this opportunity to reiterate that, in terms of vaccination, we want to make sure that everyone in the country gets vaccinated. Regardless of your visa status, everyone in New Zealand is able to get vaccinated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI certainly know, from some of the Pacific communities that we have spoken to, that they are concerned that if they come forward for testing or vaccination, it may affect their visa status if that information was to be passed on to Immigration. So I want to use this opportunity in the House tonight\u2014and the member has raised some issues like that\u2014to ensure that we reinforce that the information that people hand over to health officials, if they aren\u2019t holders of valid visas, will not be passed on to Immigration New Zealand at all. We want them to know that they are safe to get the COVID vaccine and that, if they fear any retribution because of their immigration status, because they\u2019ve engaged in the vaccination system, they do not need to worry about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe want to make sure, first and foremost, that everyone who should get vaccinated does get vaccinated and, in order to do that, that the information they may hand over to officials, to make sure they have the vaccinations and can be, for want of a better term, ticked off on the vaccination spreadsheet, will not make its way to Immigration. That will not affect them. They do not have to fear anything out of that. I do think that\u2019s one of the side issues that we have at the moment in relation to the community that that member has mentioned, and I want to reinforce that they are safe when they get vaccinated and they are safe in an immigration sense once they get vaccinated and have been through that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7d0d0861ba840adbc647456138e0a6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7d0d0861ba840adbc647456138e0a6d\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to come back to my Supplementary Order Paper and the need for two years, because the Minister in the chair, Kris Faafoi, again is continuing to use COVID as an excuse. COVID is going to be with us for a while\u2014who knows how long?\u2014and it\u2019s not a reason for a wholesale transfer of power, as he actually originally wanted, for a long period of time. It\u2019s up to Ministers to get their departments match fit to be able to deal with what happens as a consequence of COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, a lot of the submitters, and also in my opinion, said that nothing happened over the last 12 months by the Minister to get his department into a position to be able to deal with this, and, actually, the truth came out today in the Minister\u2019s previous response to my question. We finally got down to the reason for this bill, and the reason, as the Minister told us, is that his department does not have the capacity to process visas as they normally would. So when he told us a year ago that it was because they were at home and they couldn\u2019t process visas, that actually wasn\u2019t the reason, because that reason doesn\u2019t exist now and there are fewer people here. The real reason was that back then, and now, the department of immigration doesn\u2019t have the capacity, even though they\u2019re at work, to be able to process these visas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo the question is: are we giving the Minister an extra two years of this extraordinary power because of decisions this Government has made prior to COVID, like closing down offshore offices and transferring that visa processing capacity to onshore? Are we now transferring that power to the Minister because of decisions that they\u2019ve made for our immigration department, who are now not able to process a couple of hundred thousand visas? As I said before, there\u2019s 450,000 fewer visas being processed across four different categories. We\u2019re only talking about a couple of hundred thousand people onshore and, the Minister said, 10 percent of the people who\u2019ve come through managed isolation, which is only 13,500\u2014you add those two together, we\u2019re still only maybe at around 250,000. That\u2019s still 200,000 visas shy of what we were doing in 2019. So why is it that the immigration department can\u2019t process these visas and that we have to give the Minister the power to do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really interesting, actually, I find, that the Regulations Review Committee wrote to us and we asked\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f963778bf448b595605c2f6485e417\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can we please not have side conversations in the Chamber? Sorry about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ecff046f20419d96611ea0a41df52c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s OK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262861185423e44cb9d58560528e9044d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on\u2014sorry, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a48859230df4432b2818f5acd5a3e5f\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s OK; apology accepted. This is important because the Regulations Review Committee wrote to us and they were concerned about two years, and so I\u2019m concerned about two years. The New Zealand Law Society is concerned about two years. In fact, every organisation who\u2019s submitted is concerned about two years. So it\u2019s really important that we get to the bottom of this as to why the Minister needs the powers for such a long time, why his department don\u2019t have the capacity to do it. A year ago, it was because they were at home; today, it\u2019s because we don\u2019t have the capacity to do it. Which one is it, because there are fewer visas being processed today than there were two years ago, by 200,000, and yet your department doesn\u2019t have the capacity to do that. There\u2019s only 13,500 Critical Purpose Visitor Visas that they\u2019re approving. That\u2019s not that many, even when you add it to the people who are onshore. So what are the reasons that this bill is required for such a long time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca1449e363604e64b58664546738619f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca1449e363604e64b58664546738619f\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I hate to burst the member\u2019s bubble, but she may want to go look at the explanatory note, and I think in the version of the Act as it is now, because it says the Act as currently drafted\u2014and this is the original Immigration Act\u2014has a very limited ability to deal with applicants as a class or groups of individuals. In emergency situations, this creates challenges and constrains the Government\u2019s ability to respond flexibly where, for example, large numbers of visas need to be changed or extended at once. So to cherry-pick one of the reasons as to why this piece of legislation was brought in in the first place because of closures under either level 4 or level 3, I believe, is disingenuous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note also goes on to say\u2014and it\u2019s pretty obvious\u2014that at the time the immigration system was facing unprecedented challenges in managing a large number of migrants who, practically, are unable to leave New Zealand due to COVID-19 outbreaks. Ordinarily, temporary migrants are required to submit individual applications for a new visa or to vary its conditions where circumstances change and, for example, they need to be redeployed by their employer into a different role or different region. Now, the reality of what the Opposition is asking us\u2014and if I can take an example of the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme (RSE)\u2014is that if we wanted to change the conditions of some of those visas, the 4,500 RSE workers that were here before we allowed the extra 2,012 in would\u2019ve had to put their applications in to vary or change a circumstance on their visa, whenever that may have come up, on an individual basis. Now, if we allowed that to happen, I can bet quite a lot of money that the Opposition would be in this House saying, \u201CThis is taking too long. What is happening? This is not happening at a fast enough pace.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI have been on that side of the House when you have to try and find something wrong with a piece of proposed legislation, and this is what the Opposition is focusing on, but in order for us to have the flex and the ability to move swiftly, in order to benefit\u2014benefit positively\u2014large cohorts of visa holders, these are the powers that are within this bill. So, to answer the question, this bill was brought in so we could deal with classes of visas, and our ability to deal with individual changes would be very difficult for the immigration system, and I think we\u2019d be here having another conversation which would be remarkably different because things wouldn\u2019t be moving fast enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0fe85e0514b48a1b089a3e30ac04870\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0fe85e0514b48a1b089a3e30ac04870\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Minister Faafoi. I\u2019m pleased you\u2019ve raised the Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) issue. It is an issue very dear to my heart, and actually the Minister really hit it right on the head: it actually is about speed and moving it through. So I\u2019d have to ask the Minister: why did he not, then, deal with RSE workers last year under these provisions, when it was a real problem and people were in Central Otago waiting for their special directions so they could go and earn a living in Marlborough? With the stroke of a pen, the Minister could do it; he dragged his feet for weeks. So it\u2019s all very well having these powers; we have little confidence that the Minister moves with the pace that this bill allows. It\u2019s all very well to have that, but, Minister, you have to back that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s quite rich\u2014it was very interesting that 13,500 number\u2014and it seems very clear that this hasn\u2019t been thought through. We had the Minister, in his Cabinet paper, seeking this to have no time limit at all. Then he got knocked back by his Cabinet colleagues to two years. Now we\u2019re hearing a whole lot of shifting sands as to why these two years are needed. First thing, it was essential because of COVID\u2014and this is my question to the Minister: what is the definition, then, of COVID? COVID is out of the box or out of the laboratory now; it\u2019s with us for ever. It\u2019s not going to be eliminated, like other diseases, I deeply suspect, and I think most of the scientific community agrees with that. So what is the definition of when COVID isn\u2019t with us? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAs per section 50(4B), \u201CHowever, the Minister may not make a special direction under subsection (4A) unless satisfied that (a) doing do is reasonably necessary to manage the effects, or deal with the consequences of, (i) the outbreak of COVID-19; or (ii) measures taken under this Act or any other enactment to contain or mitigate the outbreak of COVID-19 or its effects; or (iii) any other measures (whether in New Zealand or elsewhere) to contain or mitigate the outbreak of COVID-19 or its effects;\u201D. So is this COVID only in New Zealand? Is this COVID-19 overseas? What are the numbers? How many visas\u2014what\u2019s the maximum number or the minimum number that you would say, as Minister, is OK for your department to actually cope with? Because we\u2019re hearing different things from you: it\u2019s all because of COVID; it\u2019s all because we don\u2019t have the capacity; we can\u2019t process the visas\u2014so, very much a shifting sands thing. I think, actually, this has not been thought through. I think, if we go right back to the RSE issues I started on, it is a Minister that is not moving very quickly, not across his portfolio, and he\u2019s trying to make this up as he goes along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThis was absolutely necessary last year. It\u2019s necessary now, but I\u2019m not convinced, and the Opposition is not convinced, that it\u2019s necessary for two years. In addition to that, we have, of course, ADEPT, and I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister about ADEPT, which is a programme that will process visas much more quickly. When that kicks in\u2014and it will be later this year, I understand\u2014won\u2019t that take all this pressure off? Why is it two years, Minister? I think you\u2019re trying to have a dollar each way on this one, and I think the Cabinet paper was very, very revealing. Clearly, the Minister did not want to give up any of this extraordinary power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think the Minister actually understands what he\u2019s actually asking for. He says it can only be used for good. Well, I\u2019m sure there are lots of authoritarian Governments that have said that very thing. That\u2019s not the point, Minister. The point is we have these laws, and we don\u2019t have \u201CHenry VIII\u201D powers just because you\u2019re a decent bloke and you\u2019re not going to use them inappropriately. That\u2019s not the point. Every action that the Minister has, particularly when he has these special directions powers, will have some effect. It might be positive\u2014it might only be positive\u2014but they will have an effect, and that is why we normally have processes. Otherwise, we would have only good laws that the Minister could make and change as they chose as they went along. That\u2019s not how our system works, and, quite frankly, Minister, to get the powers that you\u2019re seeking we have not heard a convincing argument yet. All we\u2019ve heard is a whole lot of bluster about things that aren\u2019t backed up by numbers or facts. I think even your officials aren\u2019t looking that confident there, and I think that says it all, quite frankly. So I\u2019m very interested to hear your response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002265bb076d91a44d83ac3f42d5affc0526\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265bb076d91a44d83ac3f42d5affc0526\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I might just begin by saying I\u2019m the one in the chair, so I would appreciate it if the member could leave the officials out of it, actually\u2014I don\u2019t think that\u2019s appropriate\u2014and I thank him for his earlier kind words. It means a lot to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI find it difficult that the Opposition\u2014I won\u2019t label the whole Opposition\u2014or that member hasn\u2019t quite grasped the seriousness of the COVID pandemic. So to ask the question \u201CWhat is COVID?\u201D\u2014maybe that member should go away and probably watch the news in about 35 minutes and look at what is happening around the world. The simple fact is we don\u2019t want that happening here. It\u2019s that simple. That\u2019s why the border restrictions are in place, and, Mr Stuart Smith, if you don\u2019t get that, then that\u2019s on you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00220079a5bbcb1f4550ae970b4d947fe648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220079a5bbcb1f4550ae970b4d947fe648\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. First of all, I would like to begin by acknowledging and thanking the Minister for the assurances that he has given our communities who have overstayed their visas, around their ability to access vaccinations. I think that\u2019s an important reminder in our response to the pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut participation from migrant communities and for those who have overstayed their visas is clearly about much more than vaccination; it\u2019s about being able to access income support when we potentially go into lockdown, since we\u2019re not immune to a resurgence of COVID-19, and we\u2019re very well aware of that. It\u2019s about not being in exploitative situations as we move from level to level to respond to the pandemic. Ultimately, what we are saying is that the bill needs to ensure that our migrant communities and those on temporary visas are able to fully participate in society and are able to access the support that they need as we need to respond to the pandemic. This is why we\u2019re very clear that the powers granted to the Minister, by nature of this legislation, should be used to grant pathways to residency, as the legislation is clear that these powers can grant visas to individuals and classes of people in the absence of an application. Even though it needs to be in the context of the pandemic, we do believe that the more that people are able to fully participate in society, the more swiftly and nimbly we can all respond together, as a team, to the pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge as well that the Minister did touch on the fact that this legislation cannot be used to affect people negatively. But I do want to point out that, in the absence of action that benefits our migrant communities, we are left with a broken immigration system that already puts a lot of stress and pressure and has a lot of inequities in our communities. For example, even for the Minister, it talks about the rigid criteria for border exemptions and applications for visas. We do have inequities that mean that wealthy individuals and investors, for example, can be granted a visa while our overseas wh\u0101nau who are on post-study work visas are facing uncertainty. These are not so much inequities that exist because of this legislation but, rather, because of our immigration system more broadly, and this legislation does present an opportunity to ensure that there\u2019s equity in our response to the pandemic and our immigration system more broadly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo there are also inequities that exist based on country of origin\u2014who can apply for border exemptions just based on where they\u2019re from\u2014and also the ability for disabled people, who may be here to apply for residency class visas in order to participate in schools, in order to participate in society more fully, and, therefore, for disabled people who are on temporary visas to be able to be part of the team that is responding to the pandemic. It\u2019s a lot harder to respond to the pandemic when you don\u2019t have full access to State services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party does support the powers of this Act being granted for two years, but we\u2019re very clear that the Minister has a responsibility to use the powers to benefit our migrant communities and to address a lot of the points that were raised in our select committee\u2019s report around extending visas for people offshore. I talked earlier about post-study work visas, particularly giving assurances for members of our migrant communities who were back in their homelands and who come from non-visa waiver countries such as India to be able to know that they\u2019ll have a visa once the pandemic truly subsides and once the world contains COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe whole point of this legislation was to keep our communities safe. I don\u2019t want to minimise the effects of the pandemic, as some members in this House may have. The reality is that the pandemic is continuing to kill people, and, actually, people in non-visa waiver countries are some of the places where the pandemic is raging really, really rapidly. For those people stuck overseas, who may have already made Aotearoa their home, they are particularly vulnerable to the effects of the pandemic, and the least we can do is give them reassurance that they\u2019ll be able to come back and that their visas will continue to be valid as our border settings change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo we call on the Minister to act in the benefit of our communities to use the powers granted by this bill. We hope that, in two years, while the wider review of the immigration system happens, our migrant communities will know that this Government backs them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7435b7f8ef14436bf070ecd1282d46b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7435b7f8ef14436bf070ecd1282d46b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and it\u2019s my pleasure to speak in this debate. So this legislation that\u2019s been introduced in this House in a hurried fashion, like most of the legislation by this Government in recent times, is wanting to extend for two years extraordinary powers given to the Minister of Immigration to deal with immigration matters made more complicated by the crisis that we face with COVID-19, and the point of this Opposition is to say that, yes, we agree that those powers are necessary at this time, but we do not agree that it needs to be for two years before we come back and revisit this. We think that one year is sufficient time for those powers to be extended and that the Minister should trouble himself, and his ministry should trouble itself, to come back to Parliament in a timely fashion to allow the people of New Zealand to consider this properly and to have a normal submission process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister regards this as an intolerable inconvenience. He doesn\u2019t want to do this, he doesn\u2019t want his ministry to be troubled with this, and he doesn\u2019t want to be troubled with it himself. In fact, he regards, in an incredibly arrogant way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bedbb5301d1c450fba47b383d227dbfe\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Pesky. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff0bce3f344446b99e8d36614f9dcf0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that this is a pesky requirement from the Opposition and that we shouldn\u2019t be annoying him. The point that I want to make to the Minister is that he should remember that he is serving the people of New Zealand and he is accountable to this Parliament. If he wants to have extraordinary powers extended to him in a time of crisis, he should be accountable for those powers, and we should come back on a regular basis to this Parliament and give New Zealanders an opportunity to talk about it properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, what we saw was it was rammed through urgency originally during the crisis, and we can all understand that. What we\u2019re not so impressed by was the complete lack of organisation on his part, and the part of his officials, to get this legislation into the House early enough so that it could be properly considered by New Zealanders. Because of their incompetence and their slowness and their slackness, it was introduced rather late in the piece, and we haven\u2019t had much time to deal with it. The submitters haven\u2019t had the normal time in order to be able to make their submissions on it\u2014but we\u2019re dealing with it in a timely fashion in this House, nevertheless\u2014and he has the temerity to turn up and say, \u201CI demand another two years.\u201D Apparently, all the word is that he was expecting to have even longer, three years maybe, and at least his Cabinet colleagues pushed back against that and said, \u201CNo, no, you need to come back within two years.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re saying that it is actually important that New Zealanders have a chance to have a say about this. Why? Because the powers in this legislation are extraordinary. This is an area where it is an incredibly fraught area of Government policy: how to handle with the rules around immigration. People\u2019s lives are affected by these decisions in an enormous way, and all New Zealanders are aware\u2014and everybody in this Parliament is aware\u2014of the lives that have been put on hold by the situation that we face with COVID and the extraordinary pressures on many families. So how we handle these issues is incredibly delicate, and it is important that New Zealanders feel absolutely confident that the decision making is made in a way that is defendable, robust, and predictable. So the situation that we have with the extraordinary powers handed into the hands of the Minister is, like I say, something that we accept as a reality that is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut the question I have to the Minister is: why does he have to react in such an arrogant way when we, as the Opposition, are asking what I think is a reasonable request to ensure that, on an annual basis, he takes the time and effort to come back to this Parliament, and we ask ourselves, with a situation that is moving so rapidly, where there is so much change around the world and we can\u2019t predict what the situation will be within nine months\u2019 time or eight months\u2019 time and the consequences thereof\u2014we believe that it is important that Parliament reconsiders this in a timely fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002239d50d4682294b6a8d89b7154520e201\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239d50d4682294b6a8d89b7154520e201\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d4b7994c758e4570b95c1df43e08e081\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002225d737c787c74bdd928615bd9d755705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225d737c787c74bdd928615bd9d755705\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Erica Stanford\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 30 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296e8491b0ff344d7a46f6747e1e312ac\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9892ffe90484ebb82d40c2da5701688\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9892ffe90484ebb82d40c2da5701688\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 32, in the name of Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, is out of order as outside the scope of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe question is that Erica Stanford\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 31 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002235bdf8406462413a901bc02ba4837ea3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228754256c06dc49409e407e59dbb97138\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294d8a7c97c884c19966a1373af4eac2b\u0022\u003EPart 2  Modifications of principal Act in connection with temporary powers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022703f1f025e134ce697224c1ec3045964\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022703f1f025e134ce697224c1ec3045964\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the debate on Part 2. This is the debate on clause 17, \u201CModifications of principal Act in connection with temporary powers\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002211e4812a713141299c17f18a0348757c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e4812a713141299c17f18a0348757c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk to the Minister about the way in which he has exercised some of his powers under this legislation. We talked at first reading and in select committee about some of the ways in which the powers have been used, and most of them for the right reasons\u2014we\u2019re not saying that the Minister has used his powers in the wrong way. The issue has been with the lack of timeliness and the communication around the way in which those powers have been exercised. We saw last year some classes of work visa holders that were given only three days\u2019 notice before their visas were extended. We saw earlier this year, in February, five days\u2019 notice before whole classes of visitor visas were extended. The amount of anxiety and stress for these vulnerable people, who are being given a very, very short period of time before their visas are due to expire, to know that they\u2019ve got that extension, is not very good work on behalf of the Minister, and there has been no reason given for why he has had to give them such a short period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe visitor visas: for the most part the people who are on those visitor visas in this country are elderly people. They are extremely stressed and vulnerable, and when they think that they are going to have to leave the country because their visas expire in five days, they are, as you can imagine, upset and stressed out and anxious. Now, the Minister, for whatever reason, on a number of occasions has chosen to give them only a very, very short period of time\u2014a short notice period. Now, he mentioned at the very start of this process that there were only a few occasions, in fact, that a short notice period would be required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo the question is: why is it that the Minister is unable to give these people a much longer period of notice before these come into effect, given how anxious and vulnerable these people are, who are, in effect, living from extension to extension? That\u2019s how they\u2019re living their lives, and the way that he has conducted himself around giving them notice has, in my view, and in their view\u2014because they came to the committee and told us this\u2014been less than ideal. Now, the Law Commission wanted to have a far greater notice period as an extra safeguard around the bill, but my reason for that was to give these vulnerable people far more time and notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I would point out is that, when the Minister does this, his immigration officials don\u2019t catch up very quickly. When they\u2019ve got only three days\u2019 or five days\u2019 notice, it means entire classes of visa holders become unlawful in this country. Many of them lose their jobs, and still to this day\u2014in fact, this term\u2014there were children who could not go to school, in my electorate, because their status said that they were unlawful, because the officials didn\u2019t have enough time to catch up and get all the paperwork in order. If they were given more time, they would be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAs I said, people lost their jobs because their status was showing as unlawful because the Minister is not giving a long enough time period of notice for officials to catch up, and, as I said earlier, it\u2019s also causing people to buy flights and get stressed and anxious that they\u2019re going to have to leave the country, when, actually, three days before they\u2019re due to expire, it turns out they don\u2019t. That came up very strongly in select committee from our submitters. I\u2019ve heard it, and many members of this House will have heard it as well from their constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThere is very little reason why in most cases the Minister can\u2019t give more notice. There will be some extraordinary circumstances, we understand, where he needs to be flexible and needs to be nimble, but those situations can\u2019t be all of the time. As he even said himself, when he first got up to speak today, it is only in a small percentage of the time. So why is it that the Minister is unable to give these people certainty and surety and reduce their stress and anxiety, and actually let his officials catch up with their paperwork so that people don\u2019t become unlawful? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI know that I have snuck this into Part 2, but we didn\u2019t get a chance to debate my Supplementary Order Paper in the first part\u2014and I apologise\u2014but I would like some answer from the Minister as to why he is unable in the majority of cases to be able to give more notice for these people. We understand that there will be some times when emergency powers are needed at the last minute. Why is it that he can\u2019t give more notice? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002295583db3394a4c6cae3a29b80ace8f74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295583db3394a4c6cae3a29b80ace8f74\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I might quickly just address that question from Erica Stanford by, well, just saying some of the factors that go into consideration when we\u2019re looking at using these powers to extend the period of visas for classes. When we consider that, it is taking into consideration, obviously, their visas, but also the labour market tests and issues that we\u2019re also trying to manage within New Zealand. I can stand up quite happily and say that we\u2019ve had good news in terms of our unemployment record today, but that doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019re not without challenges in New Zealand to get New Zealanders into work. Something that always is a test when we\u2019re looking at visas and the ability to approve a visa, especially for those who are working, is: is there somebody else in New Zealand available to do that work? We\u2019ve during this period tried to make sure that we get that balance right of making sure that we give New Zealanders opportunities to work when the chips have been down but, because of the response that we\u2019ve had, the economy is actually going quite well. But, again, I would reiterate that there are still challenges that we have to meet in balancing that decision about extending visas\u2014and labour market tests are something that we take into consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would also remind the member that these people are on temporary work visas or temporary visas. So at some stage, they also have to do a calculation, as the member said, about whether or not they should stay here in New Zealand and I acknowledge some of the difficulty that they would have in any case if they were to face that situation. I think everything\u2019s been a learning curve over the last 12 months. I think certainly some of the communication to visa holders, Immigration New Zealand and I would say could have been better and we\u2019ve learnt a lot of lessons over the last 12 months as to how we can do it. But I can assure the member that the intent has always been trying to balance some of those competing factors to make sure that we keep the safety intact of New Zealanders and make sure that those businesses who want to be able to keep their workers here in New Zealand can also do that. I think we\u2019ve done that to good effect over the last 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00227f8cfb8a38c24dca90ee72c1e8b7fc3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f8cfb8a38c24dca90ee72c1e8b7fc3e\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Is three days an acceptable notice period to give work visa holders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00220404c61c60384449bc11837c4032ee8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220404c61c60384449bc11837c4032ee8c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I can\u2019t recall the case and the decision which the member talks to. Again, as I mentioned in my previous answer, there have been lessons learnt both in communication and in timing and as one who likes to take lessons when they are offered in front of them, if we are afforded the opportunity to pass this bill, we\u2019ll continue to make sure we learn from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002291868f2f7a874a1c9448f928b0aac107\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291868f2f7a874a1c9448f928b0aac107\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s an explanation of sorts for work visa holders, but if we take visitor visa holders\u2014nothing to do with their ability to work, because they\u2019re not here on a work visa; they\u2019re here via visitor visas. For the most part, they are older people. Earlier this year, in February, they were all sent a letter to say, \u201CYou need to leave.\u201D Five days later, the Minister told them that they had an extension. Is that acceptable, and did he, in fact, learn the lessons from last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Law Society made a very good recommendation for a longer period of time, not only because of these issues we\u2019ve just been speaking about but also because of the fact that this disallowable instrument, the special direction, is only disallowable after it\u2019s been made. If there was an ability before that to have some notice, then this would be an extra safeguard in the bill. Now, I know that the Minister wants to be flexible and nimble, but in most cases he\u2019s been giving three days, five days, and in one case a week\u2019s notice, which he admitted they\u2019re going to learn from and, hopefully, move on and get better processes in place. But, actually, a notice period fixes so many problems and anxieties that these migrants are feeling. Other than \u201CWe\u2019d like to work-test.\u201D, there has been no explanation from the Minister as to why he can\u2019t give more notice period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EGiven the fact that we all agree that there will be some extraordinary circumstances where he will need to be a little bit more flexible and nimble, he can have the ability to make a decision in three days or five days or a week, if that\u2019s what is necessary. But, actually, especially for those people who are here on visitor visas, why is it that they can\u2019t have a far greater notice period, rather than being told as short a time ago as February this year, when they thought they\u2019d have to leave the country in a week, that the Minister turned around and changed his mind, after they\u2019d all been sent a letter, and said, \u201CActually, no, you can have your extension for three months.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThese are the kinds of things that are happening. People are losing their jobs. Kids can\u2019t go to school. Older people are being stressed out and buying flights and having to reschedule them. They\u2019re all living on a knife edge because this Minister is making decisions at the last minute and hasn\u2019t been able to explain why it is that he can\u2019t give more notice to these people, especially those people who are here on visitor visas, who are mostly older people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00227a50b64f2d8d4c26b2e60240b22ba908\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a50b64f2d8d4c26b2e60240b22ba908\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member, if she has another question to ask, to come back to Part 2, which is only clause 17. Notice and time period was all included in her Supplementary Order Paper, and we\u2019ve passed Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe question is that Erica Stanford\u2019s amendment to Part 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 30 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022efae9a9ed0d94e31ae2672bc74901254\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ebf5eedfac6749fca066b261b7c56d38\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f06e890bb7c642529b014359527d2d56\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022393df3d4b19d4849b07f369ed6b077a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022393df3d4b19d4849b07f369ed6b077a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the debate on clauses 1, 2, and 3, which are the title, commencement, and principal Act clauses. The question is that clauses 1 to 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022adaa17a2d2c74127930c94f87c654eb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adaa17a2d2c74127930c94f87c654eb8\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to talk to the Minister about the commencement date of this bill. I want to know from the Minister why it is that\u2014Madam Chair, I\u2019ll take your guidance on this, if it\u2019s out of scope\u2014all of this was done in such a rush. The reason that I want to bring this into the commencement is because we\u2019ve had very, very little time to hear from all of the submitters that we wanted to hear. We had a very short time to consider what is a doubling of the extension of the powers. As the New Zealand Law Society said, the truncated nature of this bill meant that, actually, the one-year sunset clause that we had was a really good safeguard, but the Minister wanted two years. So the fact is that we\u2019ve had a very truncated select committee process, both in the first time we passed this bill and the second time we passed this bill, yet we\u2019re asking for two years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is, why is it\u2014because he\u2019s actually never answered this question\u2014that this bill wasn\u2019t brought last year, when we would have been able to have a proper, long process, especially given that he wasn\u2019t asking for one year? In fact, he originally wanted three years, but he\u2019s actually asking for two years. So my question to the Minister is: what happened? Why do we have this short time frame, given that he\u2019s known about the sunset clause in this bill for a year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e32cf12bacd54a85a28ae3b6707e5411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e32cf12bacd54a85a28ae3b6707e5411\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, while the Minister sits there impassively and declines to trouble himself with answering that question, it is a question that I think New Zealanders want an answer to. What we have here is a perfectly predictable issue that these powers that Parliament granted to this Minister at an extraordinary time under a pandemic were about to expire. He had plenty of time to work out that this was going to happen, and the proper thing to have done would have been to have introduced this legislation earlier in the process so that we would have had a proper amount of time to debate it, to consider it, and to fully understand the implications of it. That\u2019s how Parliament works in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo for the benefit of people who are tuning in on their crystal sets to this publication here, how bills\u2014legislation\u2014are normally passed in this country is that the Government proposes a bill and then it\u2019s sent off to a select committee which calls for submissions, and then there are several months so that New Zealanders have an opportunity to comment on it. One thing that I learnt as a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22e9d5c457f4fc2a2c538d0c641b3dd\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson. This is a very narrow debate about the commencement date for this bill. So far, we have had one and a half contributions that have talked about the select committee process and sunset clauses, but not commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022154e474817ec45f189626e937f9c5e43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has a point. This is about the title and the clause of commencement. The Hon Paul Goldsmith, can you make it relevant, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f718d5f5754877b15c2e0cff04287a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very grateful for your comments, but, of course, the commencement date is only the commencement date because of the timing of this bill. The point I was making was that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225454639de581465fad6d38e8a0a9aeaa\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It was out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c85f63a50404882909c611c1bdbd58d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: And I don\u2019t need any comments from the member from over there. I can handle this myself, thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the proposal around the commencement date of this piece of legislation, and the point I was making was that the normal process\u2014and I was doing it for the benefit of people who might be listening in\u2014is that New Zealanders have an opportunity to talk about it. Now because we haven\u2019t had that opportunity, we\u2019re left here with what is an inadequate scrutiny of this legislation because of this Government\u2019s laziness when it came to introducing this legislation, and that is relevant to the time, notwithstanding the fact that it will be passed because this Government has the numbers in this House. We agree with the basic proposition of these powers being extended; the question is how far and for how long. So my only point to the Minister is I\u2019d just expect a little bit more humility, I suppose, when dealing with the processes of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfe2175531d44b06a522acdfa1873e0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfe2175531d44b06a522acdfa1873e0d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I might just take a quick contribution to address the question that\u2019s been afforded of us in this very narrow debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55d8d4832b44108967230b51dda1ddc\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Make it 2\u00BD minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8aa4d5d1f04ee1a5ba5de236b4d84a\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll try my best. If you do some of the maths on some of that process, this bill extinguishes mid-May. If we were to have a select committee process, whether it be four to six months, you\u2019d take us roughly to January or December of last year. Now, something happened late last year, it\u2019s called an election, and coming into Government and making sure that we were progressing priority legislation was what the new Government wanted to do. We always knew that this piece of legislation would need to be updated in order to allow the officials to have the lead-up and do the policy work to get it to that stage, and the period where there was an election being held obviously affected that. It helps us that the election result is what it is, because we are able to get this piece of legislation through now. So if that answers the question in this very narrow part of this debate, I hope that suffices the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00228c5cf94ceef24c38858da61eafec2ff4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c5cf94ceef24c38858da61eafec2ff4\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd6611e79a2e45c4a2e6b99e800ce56b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd6611e79a2e45c4a2e6b99e800ce56b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clause 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c952409d6842109044c66a5032eb0e\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Madam Chair. I\u2019m just wondering if you could repeat that, because I was slightly distracted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef0c608cc0042678f4630087dbbed77\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the question be now put. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b858b440dcb846f49af452397ea4adeb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000513\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000514\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000515\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00223a134b33316747e6a10c38ae655add28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a134b33316747e6a10c38ae655add28\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, this committee has considered the Immigration (COVID-19 Response) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002270ce064b9d4143db8ee2c74cd0b3c64e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270ce064b9d4143db8ee2c74cd0b3c64e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is now adjourned for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da0aa31cb1324b86bc28d162e76cea07\u0022\u003ECounter-Terrorism Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243e22fe4e52e4d078f5103f95242ecac\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00227c06819d4a3c4d7dbcecd861a2ba3c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c06819d4a3c4d7dbcecd861a2ba3c7f\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6c57ef125d84e1a96a0ff5dd2ae8aa8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290e529dd370446ed86841d797075c9d1\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt will be very hard for many of us to forget the tragic events of 15 March 2019 and the terrorist attack on the two mosques in Christchurch. On that day, a terrorist attack ended 51 lives and directly harmed many more survivors and witnesses. The impact of this attack on New Zealand communities, and in particular on our Muslim community, is immense, and we want to do everything that we can to prevent this from happening again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe nature of terrorism has been changing. We are seeing more lone actors and small groups rather than larger organised terrorist groups, and this is a trend within New Zealand and overseas. We need to ensure that our laws can respond to that changing trend. Our counter-terrorism legislation, particularly the Terrorism Suppression Act of 2002, was developed in response to international experience, such as the 2001 al-Qaeda terrorist attacks in the United States, and focuses on managing prominent terrorist groups. It therefore does not allow us to adequately respond to the range of terrorist activity that we see now. The New Zealand Government coordinates counter-terrorism activities to protect the safety, the rights, and the freedoms of New Zealanders, and our agencies need up-to-date legislation and a legislative framework to give them a mandate to better identify threats and disrupt events before they occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill strengthens New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism legislative framework to better prevent and respond to terrorism and provides law enforcement agencies with clear legal authority to disrupt terrorism and terrorist-related activity. The amendments in the bill balance enhancing our ability to prevent, to disrupt, and to respond to terrorism to protect public safety with the individual rights and freedoms recognised in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn response to the tragic events of March 15, the New Zealand Government commissioned a royal commission of inquiry into the terrorist attack to investigate all aspects of that attack. The royal commission produced recommendations to the Government to make changes across the system to protect the lives and wellbeing of those who make New Zealand their home. The royal commission highlighted the importance of regulatory stewardship and ensuring that our legislation remains fit for purpose. Recommendation 18 of the royal commission\u2019s report was for the New Zealand Government to review all legislation related to the counter-terrorism effort to ensure it is current and enables public sector agencies to operate effectively. The Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill is the first step in implementing recommendation 18 of the royal commission\u2019s report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe royal commission also highlighted the need to consider creating offences which relate to the preparatory behaviour of a terrorist before they attempt a terrorist act. Overseas jurisdictions, including Australia and the United Kingdom, have developed offences that are precursor in nature, but this is currently the gap in our legislation. The bill amends the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 and the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019 and creates offences in the Terrorism Suppression Act that may be broadly described as precursory in nature, including an offence of planning or preparing for a terrorist act. The bill brings New Zealand into line with the way that terrorism is criminalised in overseas jurisdiction with similar legal systems and enhances our ability to meet our international obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIf I can now take an opportunity to set out the key features of the bill. The definition of a terrorist act is the cornerstone of New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism legislation, and it is important that it is clear and appropriately framed. Although there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism, our current definition aligns with definitions used in jurisdictions with similar legal systems to New Zealand and with academic commentary. However, our agencies identified aspects of the current wording that may present unintended difficulties in using it. The bill makes minor changes to that definition to ensure that it is clearer. The definition is made up of three key elements. It specifies the motivation required for a terrorist act\u2014the person must intend to impact others\u2014and what outcome they must be intending to achieve. The definition also has an avoidance of doubt clause. The bill amends the definition to modernise, to provide clarity, and to ensure that the threshold is set at the appropriate level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, we don\u2019t currently specifically criminalise the planning or preparation of a terrorist act. This is a gap that was identified by the royal commission as reducing our ability to intervene at the planning stage to prevent any harm from occurring. Jurisdictions similar to New Zealand\u2014as I mentioned before, the likes of the United Kingdom and Australia\u2014criminalise this type of behaviour, and I believe that New Zealand needs to take this step too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill also introduces a new offence of planning or preparation for a terrorist act, and this offence will ensure that making plans for a terrorist act is specifically criminalised in New Zealand. The new offence will give police the opportunity to effectively intervene when the person or a group is planning or making preparations to carry out a terrorist act. The offence will not reach further than is necessary, because it requires proof that the preparatory behaviours were done with the intent to carry out a terrorist act, whether that be a few hours or a few months away. I believe that in order to ensure that this offence enables early intervention, police also need the ability to use warrantless powers of search or surveillance where this is necessary. Terrorist preparations may quickly escalate into a terrorist attack, particularly where a terrorist wants to seize an opportune moment, so police must be able to intervene and stop this from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the terrorism financing offence framework update that framework to cover the changing nature of terrorism. The framework currently only criminalises providing financial support for terrorism. However, international experience has shown that terrorists have relied on a range of both financial and non-financial support to carry out their terrorist attacks. The bill criminalises material support provided to terrorist persons or groups, and the support that is criminalised includes things like offering advice, providing goods and services, and financial assistance. Currently, a person can be convicted of this offence if they intend for the support to be used to support or facilitate a terrorist act or if they know that it will be. The bill also introduces an alternative mental element of recklessness to the offence. Similar jurisdictions\u2014including Australia and the United Kingdom, again\u2014have also taken this approach. This means that a person who didn\u2019t explicitly know that the material support being provided would be used to support a terrorist act can now be convicted of this offence if they perceived the risk that the support may be used to support a terrorist act and provided it anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill also criminalises participating in weapons or combat training to prepare for a terrorist act or to enhance the ability of a person or a group to carry out a terrorist attack, and I consider that a separate offence ensures that receiving or providing of weapons or combat training will be clearly denounced as criminal conduct. Currently, it is not a crime to travel to or from or via New Zealand with the intention to carry out a terrorist activity. New Zealand\u2019s existing mechanisms to prevent travel, such as cancelling passports, are not responsive and are not suitable in all cases. Because of this, police cannot effectively intervene to prevent a person from travelling for terrorism purposes. Having a specific terrorist travel offence makes it clear that New Zealand considers this behaviour as both harmful and criminal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EControl orders are court-imposed civil orders, and that places requirements\u2014for example, for monitoring and restrictions on association\u2014on individuals who continue to pose a real and public safety risk. Currently, the control order regime is only available for individuals who have engaged in terrorist activities overseas. This bill extends the control orders regime to apply to individuals who have completed a prison sentence for a terrorism-related offence here in New Zealand. The bill also contains amendments that improve the workability of the Terrorism Suppression Act. Although these minor amendments do not make a substantive change to existing law, they will provide clarity and improve coherence and consistency with the Terrorism Suppression Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI am confident that this bill will make a valuable contribution to New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism effort. The bill is the first step in implementing the royal commission\u2019s recommendation to review all legislation related to our counter-terrorism effort. The bill strengthens New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism legislation to enable us to better prevent and respond to terrorist efforts. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8f8fa1ff9d4cb181b4a4b41177480f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022be1d7111564345c08519b84cd92b150c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be1d7111564345c08519b84cd92b150c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to take a call on this, the first reading of the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill, that will be going to the Justice Committee. I don\u2019t sit on that committee, but I\u2019ll be watching the passage of this bill with interest. I have had a chance to read the bill tonight. It looks comprehensive. I\u2019ll talk to some of the parts of the bill later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut I just wanted to state and put on the record for the House that the National Party will, of course, support this bill through first reading and to select committee. It\u2019s important that we do that, because I think that in relation to matters of our national security, we do have a long and proud history in this House of the two major parties recognising that it\u2019s incumbent upon this Parliament to take action to make sure that our population is kept as safe as possible, especially from external threats. That is why we\u2019ll be working with the Labour Party and the other parties on the select committee to try and make this the best possible bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to go back to 2014, when I was chairing the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. The Prime Minister at the time, the Rt Hon John Key, asked me to ask the committee to pass the Countering Terrorist Fighters Legislation Bill. It was a bill that we had to pass through in a truncated time frame because of information that had been received by SIS and GCSB that there was an imminent threat to Kiwis and the country. So I worked very closely, the committee worked very closely\u2014in particular, I want to acknowledge the right honourable Phil Goff and David Shearer, who were both Labour Party members on the committee at that time, and there was a genuine bipartisan approach to making sure that that was the best possible piece of legislation that came back to this House and was then passed. I would hope that the Justice Committee will adopt and take the same attitude and the same approach in their work on the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI think that\u2014in fact, I know that\u2014collectively, as a country, we were left in a state of paralysis and shock for moments on hearing about the terrible terror attack in Christchurch. It was really a time for us as a nation where we lost part of our innocence, because up until that point, me included, probably many of us thought that we\u2019d never have to face a terror attack on our soil, and a terror attack that could come from anywhere, from any corrupted ideology, as we witnessed and were confronted with in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe thing that I like about this bill\u2014one of the things that I really like about this bill\u2014is the fact that they\u2019ve covered off, and the Minister has covered off, through clause 10, the ability to shut down financing for terror networks. This is an area that is not always focused on. We\u2019re always very focused on human intelligence, surveillance, and interventions through warrants, physical interventions, when, in actual fact, one of the major disruptors and a real disruptor that we should not ignore is that of financing, because many of these organised terrorist cells rely on a steady stream of finance to be able to plan and execute a terror attack. So I\u2019m pleased to see that there is a focus on finance in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe other point that the Minister raised, and I agree with, is that often a country\u2019s security services, whether it be the GCSB or the SIS\u2014and I want to acknowledge both of those services and the leadership within them; they are world class. They are services that, as a country, we have come to rely on and trust. And there has to be a high level of trust that\u2019s given because they\u2019re dealing with serious matters around individual rights and privacy. They are given a big licence. With that licence comes accountability and responsibility, and I think that everyone in this House, or certainly myself, acknowledges the fact that we have got a world-class intelligence service in both our SIS and our GCSB. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThese types of bills are critically important in terms of making sure that people\u2019s rights, as much as possible, are protected. Yes, it\u2019s incumbent upon all of us in this House to make sure that New Zealanders are protected from external threats, but it\u2019s also important that, as far as possible, we protect individuals\u2019 rights around privacy. Those will often be a lot of the debates and the discussions that will happen throughout the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe other point that I just wanted to address quickly is the point that the Minister raised around the police being able to respond quickly. We have seen a major change in the way these terror networks and often individuals\u2014and we were a victim of this ourselves in this country\u2014operate. You may get some terrorist cells that operate with a very, very high degree of sophistication. We saw the Twin Towers as a clear example of that, where you had individuals that were planted in the States years before, that went through genuine commercial pilot training, were accepted in the communities and the societies that they lived in, and then they flew commercial airliners into the Twin Towers\u2014a lot of finance, highly organised, and a very sophisticated attack that rocked the entire world. But then you\u2019ll come back to a very basic terror attack where it might quite simply be an individual that is completely corrupted with an ideology, that gets in a truck and drives into a crowd of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo the one thing that the agencies that are tasked to protect us\u2014and here in New Zealand it\u2019s the police, it\u2019s our customs, it\u2019s our SIS, it\u2019s our GCSB. The one thing that we can give them is the ability to be flexible and to be able to move quickly, and if they come across information or they need to respond\u2014because I can tell you now that the person planning a terror attack, or a terrorist cell that is active, is not restricted. They don\u2019t have to be compliant with regulations. So it\u2019s actually really important that we give our police the ability to be able to respond and act quickly if a sudden threat becomes apparent to them, and there seems to be some effort in this bill to be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo I am pleased to be able to stand in support of this bill. We will be watching very carefully as it makes its way through the select committee process, in terms of any changes that need to be made. But in terms of national security, the National Party feel very strongly that it is a responsible position to support this bill through the first reading and to the Justice Committee for select committee process. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022de37f13c2d1249678e3f2bc6267c9f51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de37f13c2d1249678e3f2bc6267c9f51\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I feel very privileged to rise to speak on this very important bill. Before I do so, I\u2019d like to thank the Hon Mark Mitchell for his collaborative and positive view. I, too, would like to start my speech by remembering and acknowledging the 51 shuhada who lost their lives in the March 15 Christchurch terrorist attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EToday, I\u2019m not only speaking to you and to the House as a member of Parliament, but also as a Muslim who sat there in horror and grief. I felt any sense of security I had in our country disappear on that fateful day. In our attempt to debate the counter-terrorism legislation bill today, we must not forget to remember why this bill is being introduced into the House in the first place. The Minister went into details, I am not going to go into that, but the royal commission of inquiry into the terrorist attacks on Christchurch clearly came up with the 44 recommendations, which this Government proudly accepted and agreed, in principle, to implement\u2014particularly number 18, which recommended our Government review legislation related to the counter-terrorism efforts, including the Terrorism Suppression Act of 2002 and the Intelligence Security Act 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWhile the report did not find the attacks could have been stopped or prevented, it was outlined that there was a disproportionate amount of surveillance to minority groups, specifically to Muslims. Just as the report has recommended, our legislation needs to adapt and reflect the changing nature of terrorism. For far too long, terrorism has been unfairly coupled with Islam and Muslims. This was the first time myself and many others heard terrorism finally being used to describe the lone wolf or the white terrorists, white supremacist terrorists. We have watched overseas the rise of white supremacy and the disregard, the subsequent disregard, of the terror and the fear that their actions have caused to so many communities. We need to recognise the surge of lone actors rather than the terrorist groups, and our laws need to respond to that in order to enable public sector agencies to operate effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ETo highlight this, I want to share with you a mini story of what I have experienced a few years ago. While I agree with the Hon Mark Mitchell on the good work that the agencies have done, but also I\u2019ve really\u2014while I was active in my community, as a leader in the refugee and the Muslim communities, I was approached several times by NZSIS and was spoken to over coffee and asking for collaboration with me to find out more about the internal state of my local Muslim community. At that time, this really made me feel uncomfortable and caused me to decline and question the intention behind it. Looking back now, I see that clearly it was an inefficient use of their time. This bill asks us to build the clarity for public agencies, mandating them to undertake the counterterrorism operations, to focus on identifying and dealing with the real threats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EIn the last few months, I had the privilege of accompanying Minister Little and Minister Radhakrishnan, and we conducted over 30 hui around the country. We heard from the Muslim youths, men, women, and panethnic and pan-faith communities who posed a common question: what will the Government do to make us feel safe? And today, I stand here and I remember those faces and words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWe have heard a lot of cynicism about the bill in the media\u2014that it is not going to do what it is intended for. These sentiments are misplaced and do not reflect the voices of the community that were consulted in those huis. So, in fact, it was an unfortunate disregard of those who suffered from the terror attacks. New Zealand should be a place where all people feel that they can openly express their identities, culture, and beliefs, and to feel valued and accepted and safe, without fear of violence. Our laws should act to ensure just that. With that, I highly commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb32c3132773418395d9dabb3d3ab12d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb32c3132773418395d9dabb3d3ab12d\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as a member of the Justice Committee to commend this bill to the House and in the hope that I, as a member of the Justice Committee, will get the opportunity to work on and investigate what is a really important bill. This bill is only a piece of the puzzle. As my colleague has just said\u201444 recommendations. This Government has wholeheartedly and openheartedly accepted our responsibility to action those in principle. This is our start. This is our first pou in the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI was a mum of an eight-month-old baby when the Twin Towers went down and when the world rocked to that terrorism. I remember sitting in front of the television with my eight-month-old on my knee and thinking that the world was ending. We came home a couple of years later to New Zealand. We came home having watched the continuation of a pattern of organised large-scale terrorism across the world, including the return of terrorism to London. It was a relief to get here. I remember my disbelief, therefore, on that sunny Friday afternoon on 15 March, driving home through Maunu in Whang\u0101rei, switching on the radio and hearing, while my children were in the back of the car, there had been this appalling shooting of numerous people in a mosque while they sat and prayed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI thought this must be a family violence murder. My only explanation was this must be one of those appalling femicides of which we have far too many in this country\u2014even one would be too many but we have appalling rates. I thought this was some estranged man taking out his rage on his ex-partner and his children and their community. I could not conceive that what we had faced, what the world was facing, had finally come home to little New Zealand. But so it was. And it is, I think, indicative of what we so often\u2014and Mr Mitchell across the House said we lost our innocence that day. But listening to my colleague Mr Omer, I am reminded that others had had their innocence stripped earlier. And those of us who were able to stand in our white privilege had been comforted and supported and we had not noticed, perhaps sufficiently, what was going on in the world: that it is not just large organisations, it is the lone wolf\u2014although I\u2019m not sure why we say \u201Cthe lone wolf\u201D; the lone rat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill takes the formulation of terrorism as we understood it following 9/11, when it was aimed at those large organisations, and it looks to that lone rat offender. I particularly want to pick out one example, because I think there has been some concern at times expressed that there is no need for some of this legislation and, particularly, the new offence of preparation. So I just want to take us to section 72 of the Crimes Act, because it is necessary that we have clause 9 inserting new section 6B, which is the new offence of preparing to commit a terrorist offence. That is not covered by the Crimes Act section 72. The Crimes Act section 72 covers attempts\u2014and attempts are a very, very limited class of activity. They are immediate and proximate to the act or the actual offence. And they are explicitly not only in preparation for the commission of the offence and too remote to constitute an attempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is necessary. I commend it to the House. I hope it will become an Act. I look forward to the process of select committee investigation. Sadly, I regret that it is necessary but I look forward to us creating a society that is more aware of our lone problems and that brings us together in a more cohesive, tolerant society that I believe New Zealanders want and deserve. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002230234b2753084ed883d86bc4da6e050b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230234b2753084ed883d86bc4da6e050b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hope you\u2019ll give me some latitude. I didn\u2019t want to interrupt the speaker\u2019s speech, but I just wanted to address one issue that she raised. I may have taken it out of context, I\u2019m not sure, but she referred\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287da336b561749c1a7406664024f4a46\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is not strictly a point of order, unless the member can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e18a96deffd4ff4b2c325fc8ea132b5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a point of order in the sense I\u2019m just trying to put some context around it, Madam Speaker. The speaker referred to\u2014I felt that she was reflecting back that I\u2019d spoken about white privilege and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe18b3597263402aa138942cbdbbb73b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe18b3597263402aa138942cbdbbb73b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, the member will resume his seat. That is not a point of order. Thank you. That is a debateable motion. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce47545c50f34591b34c9c03efbc519a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce47545c50f34591b34c9c03efbc519a\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to begin by acknowledging the context that has been raised again and again in support of passing this legislation, which is the suffering of the victims of the Christchurch terror attack from almost two and a half years ago now. So we do stand here in a nation where 51 innocent lives were lost in our Muslim community, targeted because they were seen as being different, targeted because of their faith, and targeted by a white supremacist far-right nationalist terrorist. And, of course, the suffering of their family members, those that were injured, and the mental harm that went with that. So I want to centre that harm, but I also want to say, and recall, that the institutions that failed those victims that day are yet to be reformed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we stand here in a context where institutions that we have entrusted to keep our communities safe, all of our communities safe, failed that day. There\u2019s been a royal commission inquiry. That royal commission came back with damning findings of prejudice in our national security and intelligence agencies, in our police force and\u2014we have to call a spade a spade\u2014essentially, we saw that racism existed in those institutions. We know now, some two and a half years on, that nothing has changed within the institutions that we are entrusting with the administration of the powers being sought to be granted by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe know, and I attended the select committee\u2014the oversight committee for the SIS latest hearings that looked specifically at the changes that were made in reaction to the royal commission findings\u2014and found, breathlessly shocked, that there still remains not a single white supremacist or far-right nationalist group or person added to their lists as a terror threat other than the Christchurch terrorist. So it seems we are broadening the powers given to an institution that will not see a white-nationalist terrorist as a threat unless he has gone on a rampage, killed dozens of people, gone to court, been convicted, sentenced to life, and, then, they will add him to their list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ETo broaden the powers granted to that institution and the definition of what we call terror before we can be assured that that institution is not still riddled with the kind of prejudice that allowed the March 15th attack to happen and go unchecked is callous. The Green Party does not support the use of a tragedy like the March 15th terror attack to broaden the powers of a national security agency that sees, and continues to see, the Muslim community, M\u0101ori, and other communities of colour as terror threats while it leaves white-nationalist threats unchecked. We do not support legislation that broadens the power of the police force to hold people after they\u2019ve served sentences, as this legislation does with the control orders regime,\u00A0which just a month ago was found to be targeting M\u0101ori children by photographing them without an ounce of evidence or a reasonable belief that they\u2019re involved in any crime at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe were assured\u2014and this was really important to us last term in the terror legislation\u2014this wouldn\u2019t happen once the full review happened, and it has happened. It\u2019s here in this bill. We do not support importation of the definition of terror or terrorism related crimes from foreign jurisdictions where protesters and dissidents may be targeted through that kind of law. We see, again, in this legislation that control orders may be applied to people returning to New Zealand after having served a sentence of imprisonment or having been convicted of terrorism related crimes overseas. Now, we know that there are many jurisdictions overseas where terror is defined as dissidency, terror is defined as belonging to a religious minority group\u2014as it might be in my home country of Iran; the teachings of the Baha\u2019i faith might be seen in that light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe know that New Zealanders may travel to Hong Kong to protest the Draconian application of laws and changes in law by the Chinese Government in their home State, and they may be seen as terrorists. We also know that there are jurisdictions overseas where, even if the definition of terror accords with ours, that due process would not apply, that convictions may be entirely unsafe. And I want to remember as well\u2014because the memory of the 9/11 attacks has been invoked in this House tonight and I stand here as a Middle Eastern woman\u2014that this type of legislation, these broadening of powers for tyrannical institutions that operate with prejudice have resulted before. It happened here in New Zealand after 9/11. We pandered to the George Bush era war on terror rhetoric and we held an asylum seeker without charge or trial for some two years when the SIS wouldn\u2019t release information pursuant to which he was held. That was Ahmed Zaoui. That was under the jurisdiction of a very popular, very powerful Labour Party Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we fear for our communities. It was M\u0101ori that raised the voices of the Muslim community and our migrants of colour after the Christchurch terror attacks and said, \u201CActually, this has happened here before. White supremacy does exist here.\u201D That is what we need to address. Until we have the kind of reform that we need in our institutions, in the police force, and in the SIS that actually assure us that our communities are not going to be targeted, that our rights are not going to be undermined, this type of legislation has no place in this House. So, with regret, the Green Party will not be supporting this legislation. We want our communities to be safe. We stand against violence, against terror, but this is not the way to go about it, because we do not trust the prejudice riddled institutions that are getting this Draconian power today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00220603a4cf26dd4388b10a852fbf458fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220603a4cf26dd4388b10a852fbf458fd2\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I stand before you today as the member for the ACT Party supporting this piece of legislation, the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill, through its first reading. We do have some reservations, but we believe that these can be addressed through the select committee process. Legislation of this nature needs to be analysed with the utmost care. Very few pieces of legislation have such powers to suspend people\u2019s liberties as our terrorist-suppression legislation does. And, while ACT believes that such legislation is justified, the onus is firmly on us elected lawmakers to make sure that the problem the legislation is seeking to solve is well defined, that the provisions are justified, and that we are also balancing infringements on liberty with the needs of suppressing the risks of potential terror acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo that end, we continue to trust in a robust and consultative process of lawmaking and that it can be undertaken here by allowing the full time to be set aside for the select committee to hear and consider submissions. One would expect that there are a number of non-terrorist groups who may feel compelled to submit on this bill with concerns of being unduly caught up in what they would deem as innocent activities. While we work through how to upgrade our terrorism laws, we must ensure that we do not do so at the expense of civil liberties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EACT recognises that the threat of terrorism is more complex than it was in 2002, when the Terrorism Suppression Bill was first introduced, and much of this bill provides some sensible updates to this legislation; hence, we are supporting it. However, we do have several reservations, as mentioned before. Our primary reservations relate to the seriousness of some of the provisions that are contained in the bill and ensuring that the powers we are enacting are used well. For example, as mentioned before, there are suggested suppression orders which allow for wide-ranging restrictions on the liberty of certain persons. There are also provisions allowing warrantless searches for preparatory offences. We would, by default, also allow for wider and less accountable searches. And, by making changes to surveillance laws, we would be allowing surveillance for lesser offences than what is already the status quo. If we change the definition of \u201Cterrorist act\u201D, we could potentially lower the standard that must be passed that authorises those search and surveillance powers. There are good justifications made by officials in relation to these powers, but they are of concern simply by the nature of what they do. All lawmakers should take an interest in law that seeks to widen the power of the State and ensure that it is being used well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe risk is always that if provisions are not used well or are ill defined, people who are not intended to be affected by these provisions end up being harmed by them. I well note, for example, the concerns that have been raised around the actions of our security services in the past towards the Islamic community\u2014similarly, concerns from M\u0101ori communities who have in the past felt unduly targeted. In my own career, I have been involved in a community that has been subject to undue vilification following the unconscionable actions of one person. I have already been contacted by people involved in legal sports, such as recreational firearms use, who are worried that the provisions of this bill could target them. We need to have a fulsome debate that addresses concerns such as these and clearly defines the types of problems this bill is seeking to solve. We have to make sure that we get this right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENow for the bits that we think need work and why. Making it an offence for web-based fund-raising tools could mean that foreign terrorist fighters or lone actors are more likely to be captured. The suggested new laws around material support would include transportation, accommodation, and stockpiling of resources. We join the concerns that the current frameworks are not satisfactory but add that a robust select committee debate needs to be had to ensure that there isn\u2019t the unintended capture of an innocent person framed as being a potential or perceived terrorist for their normal activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill also wants to criminalise the planning or preparation of a terrorist act. In order to facilitate proving this, there is a provision to apply warrantless powers of entry and of search and surveillance. We can see the obvious benefits of being able to disrupt terrorism-related activity in this way, but we do believe the standard that currently needs to be met will be lowered, and this is of concern to us. The lowered standard could be abused by officials to the detriment of the innocent. Yes, we recognise that there are some safeguards against misuse of a warrantless search, including it being used when a serious or imminent threat is identified, and we also recognise that this power could only be exercised when a warrant could not have been readily obtained. But this change does have human rights implications, and there are concerns the law could be abused. But, again, we believe that this can be addressed through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re looking forward to participating in the debate, ascertaining what the new definition of a terrorist act would, could, or should be. Bandied around are descriptions of fear or intimidation. We believe that would set a much lower standard and unjustly capture unintended persons. We will argue that the standards need to be kept high, and we believe that the current descriptor of terror does that. There are powers proposed in this bill to cancel passports and travel documents. Our view is that this may not enable intervention in some cases\u2014for example, where a person holds a dual or foreign passport. We must also consider that if we prevent travel of a suspected terrorist, are we going to be creating a domestic security issue? Nevertheless, the offence would enable police to prosecute individuals and manage their risk according to the outcome of that prosecution, and we\u2019re interested in the views of the community here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENow that I\u2019ve outlined some reservations, I would like to speak to the elements within the bill that we do agree with. We support the clearer wording around the financing of terrorism. It allows for prosecution for earlier intentions prior to an act of terror being commissioned. It also criminalises travelling to and from New Zealand for the purpose of supporting terrorism. While we do have some existing laws that capture some of the behaviour leading up to a terrorist event, we note that there is currently no specific offence in New Zealand law for travelling here to undertake terrorist activities. The reality is that people travelling to fight for terrorism purposes is a global problem and one that will not go away even with restricted travel being experienced right now. Eventually, people will be on the move once borders begin reopening around the world, and it would be prudent to prepare this legislation on terrorist financing before it does. This all modernises the legislation that we currently have, and it will better reflect as well as manage the risks that we are facing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETherefore, with so many questions but a knowledge of the need to update the 2002 Act, we support this bill through the first reading and into the select committee stage. In doing so, we request that full time be allocated to allow submissions from all interested parties to take place in a manner that is not rushed but thoughtfully contemplated. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8c65b94ab8b4a63bc9a4ba804220d26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8c65b94ab8b4a63bc9a4ba804220d26\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a short call in relation to this bill, which is a very important bill, but also one that is clearly borne from tragedy. I do want to acknowledge the 51 shuhada who were lost on 15 March 2019 but also those who are injured and for ever changed, both physically as well as emotionally. I want to acknowledge their wh\u0101nau and all those who continue to be affected by the loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EKo t\u014D t\u0101tou k\u0101inga t\u0113nei is a response and report to the royal commission of inquiry terms of reference in to the terrorist attacks, and the meaning of that is \u201Cthis is our home\u201D. The purpose, as the report itself said: \u201CThe country needed to know what had happened, and why, and what should be done to reduce the risk of future attacks.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI want to speak very briefly to a few parts of this bill which respond in part to recommendation 18 of that report\u2014firstly, the clarifying of the definition of \u201Cterrorism\u201D or a \u201Cterrorist act\u201D. The new definition proposed by this bill is one that advances an ideological, political, or religious cause carried out to induce fear in a population. So this is rather than using language of \u201Cterror in a civilian population\u201D. This is important because using \u201Cterror\u201D as part of the definition itself is recursive or circular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWhen we look to other jurisdictions, what we see is more akin to what\u2019s been proposed in this bill. For example, in Australia, they define in part a terrorist act as \u201Cintimidating the public or a section of the public\u201D; the word \u201Cintimidating\u201D is used. The UK also includes the word \u201Cintimidates\u201D in its definition. In the US they use language of \u201Cintimidate or coerce\u201D. So this will help our law become more clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe creation of a new offence to criminalise planning or preparation for a terrorist attack is another element of the bill. This remedies a gap in the law that was referred to in the case of R v S. Now, a few people here have mentioned or made the argument, not tonight but in statements before this debate, that section 175 of the Crimes Act already in part addresses this issue. Section 175 is about conspiracy to commit murder, and I suspect that most of us in this room would agree where actions are planned and prepared for that are similar to those carried out on March 15, that signifies something significantly more than murder. There is an intent to induce terror and the purpose of advancing an ideology or political or religious cause. I am a member of the Justice Committee so I won\u2019t take up more of the House\u2019s time tonight. I am looking forward to receiving some submissions as part of that committee. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229ac15f5ef8bd42d688b14fe14eee2426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ac15f5ef8bd42d688b14fe14eee2426\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Rawiri Waititi\u2014five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u002216e953cd9cc84f9c90a9e69bb10e887d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216e953cd9cc84f9c90a9e69bb10e887d\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, what?! T\u0113nei te mihi atu ki a t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei p\u014D. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. We acknowledge that the impetus of this bill was based on the horrific terrorist attack on the Muslim communities in Christchurch on 15 March 2019, and our aroha and solidarity remains with our Muslim wh\u0101nau always. However, despite this context, we strongly oppose this bill, which seeks to make our already flawed counter-terrorism legislative framework even worse. It would widen the net of potential terrorist activities even more, making it even more likely that M\u0101ori and others are wrongfully accused under these laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EPlanning and undertaking terrorist attacks is already illegal under standard laws. Additional anti-terror laws are unnecessary. We also know that security agencies such as the SIS and the GCSB have traditionally been far more focused on M\u0101ori activists and peaceful Muslim citizens rather than actual terrorists such as white supremacist groups. Changing this would be the single best thing the Government can do to prevent any future attacks. It\u2019s pretty simple, really: focus on the right people and use the laws we already have to protect our communities. Instead of pushing for more Draconian laws, bureaucrats in our security agencies should be reflecting on why they were targeting completely the wrong people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe Crown has weaponised fears around terrorism to target and vilify tangata whenua and has used anti-terror laws to criminalise our people, as we saw with the Urewera raids. As the MP for Te Waiariki, I am reminded often of the terror that was instilled in T\u016Bhoe from those raids. Young children had their school bus boarded by heavily armed officers, and wh\u0101nau were locked in garages without food and water. The elderly were made to lie on the floor for hours on end. In another display of State aggression, the Crown wrongfully tried to prosecute the Urewera Four with anti-terror laws. In the end, the Crown failed in using those laws and instead drummed up firearms charges. It\u2019s likely that the Crown would have tried to use the new provisions in the bill relating to weapons training and planning preparation, which may have ensured their success in demonising T\u016Bhoe wh\u0101nau, who were only practising their mana motuhake on their land, on their whenua, as they have done since time immemorial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori opposed the Search and Surveillance Act 2012 despite being in Government, and have a strong track record in opposing policies dressed up as anti-terrorism measures that undermine the human rights and civil liberties that all parties in this House claim to hold dear. We are proud to continue that track record of opposition tonight and vote against this legislation. The Government needs to refocus on the drivers of violence and hate in our communities, such as white supremacy, racism, and bigotry in all its forms. Te Paati M\u0101ori do not support this bill. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d74721daf6cd4b35afe1648d0a452fa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d74721daf6cd4b35afe1648d0a452fa1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203ddb0762b0f456baa64810556fb2b43\u0022\u003EHolidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed990f522b5644d88a75971a267a5a81\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022183832e3c38641e599d94a9181cab362\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022183832e3c38641e599d94a9181cab362\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present to the House a legislative statement for the second reading of the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022709b3cc76d7e48838267676acf05623e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d52ec95298d463386f3fe07089d9f9b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very happy to be back in the House for the second reading of this important piece of legislation. It\u2019s an important part of the Government\u2019s programme of delivery to ensure fairness for working people and to deal with an important public health issue. It sits with a range of other initiatives that the Government has progressed in its first six months in office this term to ensure that working people do have a fair go. We\u2019ve increased the minimum wage to $20 per hour, brought security guards into the protections of Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act, ensured that seafarer welfare centres are properly funded, and we\u2019ve taken action on longstanding problems with the Holidays Act by accepting the recommendations of the independent task force. And this piece of legislation, which increases the statutory minimum for sick leave from five days per annum to 10 days per annum, is an important part of that programme of delivery, and I\u2019m pleased that we\u2019ve been able to move on it so early on in the term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important part of our response to COVID-19. Having gone through the year of COVID, I think that we have learnt that it is time for New Zealand to move past that dangerous culture of just toughing it out when people are sick and continuing to come into work. I\u2019ve done it, and I suspect that many others in this Chamber have done it from time to time. We feel the pressure, we feel the sense of obligation, we think it\u2019s no big deal, but after a year of dealing with a global pandemic, we have had to learn and relearn that the best thing for Kiwi workers to do for their own health, for the health of their co-workers, and for the public health interest is to stay at home and get well. We know that, for many people, that statutory minimum of five days per year is simply not enough to cater for that, particularly if we think about some groups of workers who might have dependants who are reliant on that sick leave to cover the illness of their children or other dependants as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is important both for the worker themselves; we want to make sure that they don\u2019t have to come into work when they\u2019re unwell, because of a lack of adequate sick leave. It is important for the co-workers, for everyone else in the workplace. We\u2019ve learnt through the course of COVID-19 that bugs do spread, and, of course, if someone comes into work when they are sick, those bugs spread to other people and potentially have a bigger impact on that workplace than had the person taken a couple of days to get over it. A study in the United States in 2015 revealed that workers coming into a workplace when they were sick decreased productivity in that workplace by 20 percent in the period concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThirdly, this is an important public health measure. COVID-19 for most of us in our lifetimes has been the first kind of pandemic that we have to deal with at a scale like we have had to deal with, but it is potentially not the last one that we will have to deal with, and we just have to make sure that\u2014whether it\u2019s in a pandemic like COVID-19, whether it\u2019s during seasonal influenza, or it\u2019s one of those other bugs that people pick up\u2014we don\u2019t spread it around our workplaces and around our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe select committee has reported the bill back and recommended no changes. I want to thank the select committee for their work. They were very ably chaired by chair Marja Lubeck, and they received around 400 submissions and had a large number of oral submissions as a part of that. There were varied submissions in support and in opposition to the bill, and many raised very valid issues that the select committee has carefully considered, and I just want to touch on a few of those in the time that I have remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that was raised with the select committee was the question of the qualifying criteria before people are able to access paid sick leave. At the moment, someone needs to have been employed by their employer for six months before they are entitled to the statutory minimum for sick leave\u2014currently five days, to transition to 10 days under this bill. There were some very reasonable and well-considered representations which argued that, in reality, a person can get sick on day 100 of their employment or on day one of their employment; so it doesn\u2019t necessarily make sense to have that entitlement kicking in after six months and can lead to perverse consequences with people, before that six-month criteria, coming into work when they are unwell, with all of the fallout that I\u2019ve previously discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think this is a very valid point, but it was ruled to be out of scope of this bill by the clerks. But the good news on this front is it is part of the Government\u2019s work picking up the recommendations of the Holidays Act task force. This is one of the recommendations that we have accepted. So officials are right now working on the broader programme of changes that will come into effect through the task force recommendations, and bringing in a staggered entitlement to sick leave from day one of employment is one of those recommendations. So, while that will not be progressed through this piece of legislation, it is on the Government\u2019s work programme, along with a range of other very, very positive changes to simplify and improve the Holidays Act as part of that task force process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESecondly, there were submissions around the possibility of prorating the entitlement of sick leave for part-time employees, and a number of employers raised this and it was given consideration by the select committee. The contention put forward as part of those arguments is that an entitlement of 10 days\u2019 sick leave is more than what might be required by part-time employees who might be working a couple of days per week. The committee and I have received advice from officials on this issue, and, of course, when you think about it, the reality of sick leave for a part-timer is that a part-timer has fewer days on which they are going to be employed and going into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo, on average, the call on paid sick leave that a part-time employee will be making will be less than the call being made by a full-time employee just by dint of the fact that there are going to be fewer days at which that person is at work on which they might be sick. So the concern that this might result in part-time employees maxing out their sick leave entitlement is one that we do not think is borne out, and I do think some of the arguments that were raised around possible abuse of the system are somewhat overblown. I think we do have to operate under a high-trust model, and most employees and employers do. And, of course, there are provisions in employment legislation to deal with any abuses that come into effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere were also representations, primarily from unions, about the question of when the increased entitlement to 10 days\u2019 sick leave will take effect and the commencement of the bill as well. So the provisions of the bill will come into effect two months after the bill receives Royal assent, and employees will then be entitled to the increased allocation of sick leave at their next anniversary date for their sick leave anniversary, which is generally the date that is six months after their starting date with the employer. Effectively, representations\u2014mainly from unions but from some others\u2014were to bring both of those forward; could we have the increased entitlement applying closer to the date of Royal assent and could we bring the increased entitlement forward from an employee\u2019s anniversary date to some earlier point in time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAgain, those arguments do have some utility about them; they would give the benefit of this legislation to employees more quickly. But we have been conscious of bringing this bill forward in a balanced way that is manageable for employers, who will have to make changes to their payroll systems and other systems in their workplaces. So, taking that all into account, we have retained those provisions, which mean that the bill kicks in two months after Royal assent and that the increased provisions will kick into place on the employee\u2019s anniversary date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to address some of the core arguments that I have heard from some people who have been opposed to this bill, including the Opposition. Fundamentally, I think this does come back to the kind of model that we want to have for employment relations in our country. Do we want that low road, low trust, low pay, low entitlement model or do we actually work together and really partner to make sure that we have workplaces that are fair, safe, and productive? As Minister, my view is that for too long we have seen those things as being in conflict with one another. Yet, the very best workplaces and employers that I deal with in my role are employers who recognise that those things go together\u2014that when you treat your workers well, when there are adequate entitlements, when people are able to take time off when they\u2019re unwell, you build up trust with your workforce, you increase productivity, you keep your people for longer. And that actually is the high-road path that this Government is taking with this bill and as part of our broader vision for employment relationships, and I think that is a very important thing that needs to be heard in our communities, and many, many people, I think, get this, particularly after the year of COVID, when we have seen the damage that can be done if people don\u2019t have adequate entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do note that, at the moment, around about 50 percent of people through their agreements do have 10 days or more. So the impact of people relying only on the statutory minimum falls disproportionately at the moment on women, on M\u0101ori, on Pasifika, and more vulnerable workforces. So this is an important bill in terms of the health and wellbeing of individuals, of workforces, for the public health interest, and it\u2019s about making sure that we do have a fair, a safe, and a productive employment relations system that is equitable for all workers in New Zealand. Again, I thank the select committee for their work, I thank submitters, I look forward to the further speeches in this debate, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227a4f7384cda349ad89fccda5ffa63227\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a4f7384cda349ad89fccda5ffa63227\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba4b5187637c48eaa89461bb09476925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba4b5187637c48eaa89461bb09476925\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. On a day when I thought the Minister would come to this House humbly apologising for the way that his Government has treated and thrown under the bus the Public Service and told them that there will be no pay rises for those hard-working civil servants, I\u2019m surprised that he should be here arrogantly professing to understand how business works and how it operates and what motivates and what goes for a high-trust model. What does need to be learnt within the Government, within the Labour Party, and within the trade union movement is what trust means and what a high-trust model could look like, because, on that side of the House, most of them come from a trade union background and they know that in the Finance and Information Workers Union, which the Minister used to be an employee of, they had very little trust, and that was reflected in the way that they engaged with their employers and the way they conducted themselves as union officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo this bill, members will remember, was introduced under urgency very early on after last year\u2019s election, under urgency, and then sent to a select committee for a truncated hearing period of time in which submissions were to be received during the Christmas holiday period. And I think that that was callously designed so that there would be not many submissions. Well, in fact, there were lots of submissions; I think the Minister said there were over 400. And apart from the pro forma trade union submissions that all sounded exactly the same and were probably generated from the same word processor, there were a large number from small businesses and from business organisations who clearly understood that the good intentions of this piece of legislation would have significant negative, unintended consequences on not only the businesses but also the people who work so diligently and hard in those businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt was during the select committee hearings process that we heard about some of those unintended consequences. The primary one, of course, was that this measure of itself, according to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment regulatory impact statement, will cost New Zealand employers something close to a billion dollars a year, near enough to 1 percent of the country\u2019s total payroll, without a single ounce of extra productivity being generated as a result of it, no extra productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo, for those on the other side of the House, what happens when you get extra costs added into your business and you get no productivity added into your business, that\u2019s just a cost that the business has to absorb. And when businesses have to continually absorb extra costs, as they have done under this Government\u2019s administration and look likely to continue to have to absorb, they do one of two or three things. First of all, they will do whatever they have to do to remain competitive and profitable, because if those businesses don\u2019t remain competitive and profitable, then there are no jobs, there is no business, and those employees who work in those businesses end up having no sick leave because they are no longer employed! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat happens is that businesses will then adjust and modify and reconfigure their businesses to accommodate those increased costs. So what they might do, for instance, is put up their prices and it will be consumers, end users, who end up paying the price for this well-intentioned but costly, feel-good piece of legislation. Then what they might also do is they might reconfigure their business into a way that means that their costs of employing people are actually less. And by that I mean they will employ fewer people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWe heard from a number of submitters at select committee who said that they would do exactly that, that the unintended consequence of this piece of legislation and a raft of other pieces of legislation that this Government has pushed through means that businesses will be actually employing fewer people. Because guess what? They\u2019ll be automating. They\u2019ll be changing the way they operate their business. And one only has to look at retail, supermarkets, and all sorts of places like that to see how it is changing, and it\u2019s changing dramatically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI talked to a large employer, a supermarket operator, who told me that, yes, of course, they are putting the minimum wage up. Yes, they\u2019re going to give people an extra week\u2019s sick leave, and yes, there\u2019ll be an extra public holiday and all those sorts of costs. But what will happen is, because of automation, he\u2019s actually going to be employing his people for fewer hours. Now, that surely can\u2019t be the intent or the objective of this Labour Government\u2019s grand plan, to punish business and actually, by unintended consequence, punish employees. So that\u2019s the kind of thing that will be happening up and down the countryside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI wanted to just talk a little bit about something that came as a bit of a surprise to me, and it was the submission from the Children\u2019s Commissioner, Judge Becroft, who actually, when we started questioning him, started to understand the implications for people who may be employees with children. And where we got to, and the judge was very clear on it, was that effectively what this legislation means is that the employer will be, effectively, underwriting the healthcare of his employee\u2019s or her employee\u2019s children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo let me put it to you this way, Madam Speaker\u2014well, not you personally, but let me put it to the House this way. So if an employer is hiring new staff and there are two candidates, both with equally comprehensive and good backgrounds, CVs, experience, and talent, but one of the candidates has no children and one of the candidates has say, I don\u2019t know, four, five, or six children, guess which one the employer is going to employ? It will be, as Judge Becroft succinctly and clearly understood, a negative impact on employees with children, because employers simply don\u2019t want to take the risk of underwriting the good health or otherwise of those children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister spoke\u2014the Minister spoke\u2014[Interruption] Now, I know on the Government side, the trade unions, they forget that they\u2019re now in the Parliament. [Interruption] They\u2019re not in the Trades Hall now. They\u2019re in the Parliament of New Zealand, and they have to actually get beyond the trade union rhetoric and start thinking positively and concisely about the impacts of their legislation. This is not the Trades Hall; this is the Parliament of New Zealand. And what it means, for instance, when the Minister talks about his reluctance to pro rata, is that part-time employees will be disadvantaged as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s why. If you don\u2019t pro rata\u2014and this legislation, effectively, gives a part-time employee 10 days\u2019 sick leave a year. So let\u2019s think about an employee who works one day a week for an employer. They get 10 days\u2019 annual sick leave. That\u2019s potentially about 20 percent of their working year on sick leave, but it gets worse than that. So if that one employee then works for a separate business, another entity, another day of the week, they get another 10 days\u2019 annual sick leave. So it\u2019s not 10 days per employee; it\u2019s 10 days per employment. And that is, I think, a matter that this Government has clearly not understood. The potential there for part-time workers to be disadvantaged will simply mean that businesses will structure their businesses in a way that means that they won\u2019t put themselves at that kind of risk. I don\u2019t think that was what was intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to just refer to one submission, and it was just one that I picked at random from a small-business person, Deirdre Morgan, who came to the select committee and said, and I quote, \u201COn a practical level if an employee is earning $20 per hour and working 40 hours per week, the potential additional cost to employ that person is $800 per annum in sick leave. In addition to that, the company may need to employ a temp worker to cover that period, and that could cost another, say, $1,400 for the same period. Therefore, the total cost is $2,200 per year in extra sick leave. But if there are 10 employees in that business, then the potential added cost is some $22,000.\u201D So one gets an idea how quickly this escalates and snowballs in terms of the cost to small business. Why is this a problem, particularly for small business? Because small businesses don\u2019t have the capacity to cover in the way that large businesses do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAnd so here we have, I think, a probably well-intentioned piece of legislation straight out of the Trades Hall, straight out of the union playbook, using the cover of COVID as an excuse to bring it to the Parliament and using that as a rationale, as an excuse, for actually bringing forward their agenda, but with unintended consequences that will actually lead to significantly less productivity in the country, significantly fewer people actually employed, and businesses not wanting to take the risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002263ecdc3101b44ac98a8c421037a3aefb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263ecdc3101b44ac98a8c421037a3aefb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad1824f4724b4b6ba1a81320d55caf25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad1824f4724b4b6ba1a81320d55caf25\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. Now, the previous speaker talked to us about urgency, and the callously carried-out process of urgency, when this bill actually came to the select committee that I chair on 1 December, which was five months ago. Now, that\u2019s not the kind of urgency that the National Government used many, many times when they were in Government, many times on all sorts of occasions, and, notably, when they were riding roughshod over employment rights, like, for example, internationally recognised workers\u2019 rights, taking away collective bargaining from workers under the \u201CHobbit bill\u201D, overnight without any select committee process at all, without any opportunity for public input at all. The same with 90-day trials\u2014so that full outrage about this urgency is a little bit misplaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBut let me talk about the nearly 400 submissions that we received from businesses, NGOs, not-for-profits, individuals all across the country, and, as well as that, we had time to do the 34 oral submissions that were requested. Of course, it won\u2019t be lost on anyone in the House here how important it is to look at workers\u2019 rights for our New Zealand workers and especially on the back of what has been a very unprecedented COVID period, where people had to be very careful in how they were treating their sick leave and making sure they didn\u2019t bring that to their workplaces and spread any of their germs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EA little word on unintended consequences that the previous speaker was talking so much about. Now, that must be like the unintended consequences that we hear about every time we put the minimum wage up. Apparently, it would result in massive job losses, every time we put this up. But what happened? What did we hear today? Unemployment, in fact, is down to 4.7 percent. I think it\u2019s the lowest that it was since September 2019. So, so much for those unintended consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, I also picked a couple of submissions at random, like the previous speaker did. I picked one from Together, and the one I want to talk about is a hairdresser who came to us and talked about the times that she said she would just make do if she wasn\u2019t 100 percent. Of course, you know, you can imagine in that kind of a job, that definitely has a flow-on effect. But that particular person said to us that she had learnt from the COVID-19 pandemic and that she actually realised that she needed to be more aware of\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Ctaking care of her own health and thereby of everyone around her\u201D. That same organisation, Together, also conducted a survey of working people, and they had about 700, or 711, something like that, people get back to them about their current entitlements to sick leave and their experience with the five-day sick leave and also what they felt they needed to, in fact, have a safer use of sick leave for themselves. It basically reinforced what we already know: that, as we have at the moment, the minimum of five days is absolutely inadequate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThat brings me to one of the overarching themes that our select committee really saw through all of those submissions, and that\u2019s that there\u2019s a stark choice that workers face when they get sick. That is either they need to choose between taking unpaid leave and perhaps not being able to pay the bills, or they have to choose to come to work sick, not look after their own health, not look after the health of the people around them, and potentially spread their germs in the workplace. That, of course, has a flow-on effect, resulting in perhaps many more people being sick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, for many workers, taking unpaid sick leave isn\u2019t even an option. We heard from one of our E t\u016B members, Marina\u2014she is a cleaner. She talked to us about how she had to take unpaid sick leave and was worried about how to put bread on the table for her children. That\u2019s how dire it gets for some of those workers out there. And the pressure of a toughing-it-out culture and risking infecting others, E t\u016B mentioned, has created a culture of heroism. That really isn\u2019t on in these days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWorkers and families need flexibility to make sure that people take sick leave when they need it, have a proper opportunity to rest and recover, and, as a result, being happier and healthier in the workplace will also mean that they are more productive. So that\u2019s exactly what this bill does. It supports workers to take the sick leave when they need it, look after themselves, look after the people around them, look after their families, and produce a happier and healthier New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1b64bf71214cd7aa903d6d054a77e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1b64bf71214cd7aa903d6d054a77e9\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. In the second reading of this bill, the Labour Party is now one step closer to delivering on an election promise, which is to increase costs upon business by $2.8 billion a year. We\u2019ve heard other speakers in the debate so far from the other side\u2014indeed the Minister\u2014talk about productivity gains, but you don\u2019t increase productivity in an economy or in a business by imposing costs upon that business. You do so by reducing red tape and regulation and allowing those businesses to get on with what it is the economy needs them to do\u2014run their businesses well, create profits through productivity and competitiveness, and, of course, look after their employees and pay them more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a piece of legislation that is very blunt in what it is trying to achieve, as we have seen so very often from the Labour Party. Indeed, we hear often from them, \u201CUnintended consequences are not important.\u201D But if we look at everything that\u2019s happened during the previous three years in Government and since they have come to Government just six months ago, there are unintended consequences that have a direct impact upon the very workers they say they are trying to help. I\u2019m going to set that out in a way that pulls this together, because the cost of this legislation upon businesses\u2014not the taxpayer through the taxes they pay to the Government, not on the Government itself, but the businesses that will meet the cost of this\u2014is $1 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister has said there will be greater productivity, he is yet to show the House, or any large or small business\u2014and particularly small business\u2014how extra productivity will be driven through this legislation, or any anything else the Government has done around workplace relations, to make up for the cost of that extra billion dollars. Because it has to be paid for and it will be paid for by businesses in New Zealand. The ones that will be most hard hit in paying this are the small businesses, the mums and dads who work so very, very hard to provide for themselves and their families and a few employees. They\u2019ll bear the cost of this, not the Government, but them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESee, the problem you have is if you keep imposing these costs upon businesses, they actually have to do one of three things: they absorb them\u2014well, that doesn\u2019t work anymore, because during COVID last year, and lockdown, businesses in New Zealand, small businesses, did what was asked of them by this Government, they absorbed costs when they weren\u2019t able to open and they took on debt. Few, if any, of them have seen their turnover, their income, return to those levels, sustainably, that they were before COVID. So they\u2019ve taken on that debt and, in this case, they can\u2019t absorb that cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESecondly, the thing that they do is they have to look to reduce their workforce. And yes, the Government has said the unemployment rate that has come out today has fallen again, but behind that is masked, ongoing, significant taxpayer and Government contribution to help and keep people in jobs, and at some point\u2014the Government can\u2019t keep borrowing and spending\u2014that has to stop. So, largely, what a business does is it has to look at how it can economise and it reduces its workforce. It may not do it on day one, but when it comes time when they lose a staff member who may leave or do something else, they hesitate and they wonder whether they will replace\u2014in many cases if the Government imposes extra cost, they don\u2019t replace that person. They have to try and do more with the employees they have left, or they must pass the cost on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo the $1 billion that this bill will impose upon businesses in New Zealand\u2014as part of the $2.8 billion of a range of things the Labour Party promised to do before the last election, that mean Kiwi businesses pay $2.8 billion extra every year\u2014will have to be passed on. Who is it that pays this $2.8 billion when it\u2019s passed on? It is the consumer and it\u2019s the very people the Government is saying they\u2019re trying to help the most through the very fast increases to the minimum wage and these extra costs, including looking at a doubling of sick leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Minister, why did he go from five days to 10 days? Where was the maths or the science or the evidence behind that, other than it was a good election slogan? Why did he decide to impose only $1 billion of extra cost? And, actually, where will the productivity gains be for the economy that pay that back? Because he\u2019s quick off the tongue, but slow off the hip. He hasn\u2019t been able to demonstrate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, when it comes to sick leave entitlement, actually there is a disincentive here because what the Government has done is said that, \u201CActually, you can only carry over one year.\u201D Well, currently, an employee in New Zealand can carry over three years\u2014not year upon year upon year\u2014but there are many employees who don\u2019t use their full entitlement and they will grow them and they will carry that over in case it is needed at some stage. Because it\u2019s not a holiday, it\u2019s not an entitlement for a payment, it\u2019s in the case they are unwell, so that they are provided for. What this legislation does is, instead of carrying over three years, or 15 days, it doubles sick leave, but can only carry over one year or 10 days. That is likely to have one of two consequences: that, actually, those who need sick leave that may have 15 days there\u2014plus their five-year entitlement a year; so would have 20\u2014actually wouldn\u2019t have that in the same way. Or there may well be employees that say, \u201CIf I\u2019m going to lose this because I can\u2019t carry it over any more, I wonder if there is a way to use that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow, I actually believe it\u2019s better to find ways to encourage employers and employees to work well together, because I\u2019m yet to meet a good employer\u2014and this country is full of business people who are good employers, who care about their businesses and actually want to retain good staff; because it is much easier, much easier to keep good staff members than it is, as this Government thinks, for good employers to get rid of them to then go and hire someone else because it may be easier or cheaper. I think we should find a system that trusts and encourages them to work it out for themselves rather than the blunt instrument of the Government, of just saying, \u201CWe made an election promise that we\u2019re going to double sick leave. We have not put any thought into it other than it sounded good at the time. There are consequences to this, but don\u2019t worry, it\u2019s good for productivity.\u201D Forget the $1 billion extra cost that is imposed upon these businesses, because the Labour Government sees businesses as an ATM for paying the bills they want to run up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a country that has more small businesses per capita than any other country in the world. There is a reason for that, because Kiwis are hardworking, they\u2019re ingenuous, and they want to do well. For so very many of them, they are wonderful employers and they have amazing employees that turn up to work every single day. For the Government to come in and say, \u201CWe have a suite of changes we want to sweep through without genuine consultation with the people that will be most affected, because we made a promise before the election that will cost $2.8 billion.\u201D\u2014and, by golly, the Government says they\u2019re going to keep this promise of an extra $2.8 billion of cost upon Kiwi businesses, and therefore consumers, the people they say they\u2019re trying to help, that actually they do them a great disservice. The ultimate outcome of that will be higher costs passed on, businesses that struggle more, and employees that won\u2019t be better off because the employers will have fewer choices rather than more. We should be backing hardworking Kiwi businesses, not putting costs on them; finding ways to reduce the costs upon them so they can employ more people and pay them more, because almost every small-business person I\u2019ve met wants to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut what they want the Government to do is get off their backs, stop imposing costs upon them that make it harder for them. In fact, the Government should be finding ways to reduce red tape, to reduce burden, to make it easier for them to support the good employers and the good employees\u2014focus only on those who are not meeting their obligation, and those that are, actually encourage them to do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is not a positive piece of legislation for the economy, and the day the Minister turns up and gives absolute evidence that there will be productivity gains, not just a $1 billion cost on businesses, particularly small businesses, will be a day this House will wait a long time for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u00220dd2adee974e4e4d9e173651c53e8d76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dd2adee974e4e4d9e173651c53e8d76\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this, yet another important bill, that might look unnecessary to the Opposition, but it\u2019s very important for thousands of workers, who, many of them, are front-line workers. Before I kick off my speech, I\u2019d like to start with sharing a story, a story of a working woman, a cleaner and a mother, Malia Motusaga. Malia lately said, commenting on the increase of this 10-day sick leave, \u201CI was grateful to hear that the Government will increase the minimum sick leave from five days to 10 days. This is very important to me and to my family, as well as to other workers. This is the reality of living on the minimum wage and working two jobs: sometimes you need to make sacrifices. If my children are sick\u2014and usually someone gets sick from my family\u2014I would have to take time off of work unpaid. The extra five days will benefit me and my kids. Now I know that if I get sick, I can stay home, and if any of my kids or my husband gets sick, I can stay home to look after them. I feel really good about that.\u201D That statement speaks volumes about the importance of increasing sick leave from five days to 10 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ENow, last year in 2020, when the pandemic hit, we all of us went into lockdown. I remember there was an outpouring of support and love and solidarity towards front-line workers. Every 7 p.m., we would go out in our driveway and we would clap. We would clap in a spectacular show of solidarity towards these hard-working people who played an important role in getting us through the lockdown times. That was a beautiful display of solidarity, but that was not going to pay their bills. It was not going to put three meals on their table. But increasing sick leave, allowing them to stay home when they are sick, is going to make a difference in their lives. I am very proud of the record of this Government supporting working people. This Government pumped up the minimum wage to $20 and started implementing the living wage in core Government sectors. Now increasing sick leave is also another milestone that\u2019s going to support this vulnerable workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ENow, some of the submitters, we must admit, expressed some concerns around this bill, and we acknowledge that. Some of their concern is that this increase in sick leave will hurt small and medium sized businesses or that some of the employees will take advantage of this goodwill. Those assumptions are just unfounded and misplaced. I was a cleaner. I have worked with hundreds of cleaners, and as a union organiser I looked after cleaners, security guards\u2014I have never seen anyone taking advantage of sick leave that\u2019s available to them. Ethical employers already are doing this, and we haven\u2019t seen any business running out of business because of increasing sick leave from five days to 10 days. In fact, they are doing a good job. Their productivity has increased and they are grateful, and their employees are grateful and they are working harder than ever because they feel valued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis is just a part of the scaremongering that we heard about when the minimum wage increased: unemployment is going to increase. In fact, the finance Minister today said that unemployment has decreased to 4.7 percent despite the minimum wage going up to $20. This is another sign that things are not always the way that the Opposition seem to make them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ELastly, as we live and we continue to fight the pandemic, we must value and respect our hard-working front-line workers, because that is part of our health response as well. A happy and valued workforce is always going to get us through the tough times. At least, people like Malia deserve this. With that, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddfc4af95c4940bca84d72e139894865\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddfc4af95c4940bca84d72e139894865\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m really pleased to get to rise and take a call on this piece of legislation, which I know from the number of conversations I\u2019ve been having in the community is a law change that a huge number of people are desperately waiting for. The Green Party are incredibly pleased to support the extension of the minimum paid sick leave entitlement from five to 10 days for full-time and part-time workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard through the select committee process a good number of submissions and some really compelling submissions from working people, who told us, unfortunately, that life happens. People have experienced unexpected illness. They\u2019ve experienced mental health problems while they\u2019ve been employed, and they\u2019ve had sick family members that they\u2019ve had a duty to care for. Not everybody is in the lucky position to have enough sick leave to be able to stay at home and get well, to be able to actually look after their mental health in this mental health crisis that we have, because they know their mental health will get worse if they can\u2019t afford to pay the rent. So they go to work and just stay on eggshells for an extended period of time and are unable to truly get well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe hear from people who are\u2014like, their kids are sick, and they don\u2019t have paid leave. They have to be at home to be with their kids or we can be pretty sure everybody in this House would be judging them for not being there. But they know that, when they choose to go there and be with their kids, they are forgoing that income until they can get back to work, and that means they do not know how to pay their rent. They do not know how they are going to be able to afford the kai to be able to feed their kids to get them back to health. That is the stress that people are under at the moment because of the extremely limited provision of the minimum sick leave entitlements. We heard from people that they were making that choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Opposition today the really very clear consequences for employers of this\u2014and I\u2019ll get to that if I get time, unpicking some of their perceptions of that\u2014but what they didn\u2019t mention was the consequence for the working people of not having enough sick leave. It\u2019s either you go to work sick and work ineffectively, because you\u2019re either working through that fog or not able to concentrate properly\u2014potentially putting yourself or others at risk from injury or sickness through spreading the disease\u2014or you stay home, don\u2019t have the income, and struggle to pay your bills. Or, as we heard from some people of what they\u2019ve had to do, particularly if their children had repeated illness, you leave that job to put your children first. We all end up paying for that, but most of all that family ends up paying. I would also argue the employer loses out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a real problem, because this is some of what we heard from the submitters supporting the legislation. What we heard from employers, not all of them but a large number who presented, was that they opposed it because they saw it as a cost. They didn\u2019t recognise the fact that, if people are sick, they\u2019re sick; they\u2019re either coming to work and not doing a great job, because they\u2019re sick, or they\u2019re not turning up to work and you\u2019re just not paying them. But you\u2019re not getting the job done, because that person is actually sick, or you\u2019re losing great staff because they can\u2019t sustain their health or their kids\u2019 health and your limited provision of sick leave. That is an increased cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo we heard from members on this side that this has nothing to do with productivity and that there are no productivity returns around that. Well, the evidence says otherwise. The evidence says that, as a country, we have a problem with what is called presenteeism. It\u2019s the opposite of absenteeism. It\u2019s people compulsively turning up to work when they are sick and underperforming and making others sick. That has a really significant impact on productivity, and employers lose. Families lose. We all lose from this obsessive culture of seeing human beings as a cost as opposed to the people that actually do the work that create the value in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re very pleased finally to see these provisions in terms of the extension of the leave. I would say, however, though, that the Greens are disappointed with some aspects of the bill. I acknowledge the point that this was brought in under urgency as one of the very first pieces of legislation that the Government brought in, on 1 December, and I know from conversations with people that they are really\u2014they\u2019ve been asking me \u201CSo, when am I going to get my 10 days?\u201D, because they are in that situation at the moment of not knowing, if their kid gets sick, how they\u2019re going to be able to look after them, because they don\u2019t have enough sick leave at the moment. So they are desperate for this support, and this is particularly people in care industries and in early childhood education, and we heard a lot from people in industries where they can\u2019t come back to work until they\u2019ve been well for, like, two days. So it\u2019s not just the sick day. There\u2019s expectations in terms of health and safety that people stay away from their workplace, and yet the leave doesn\u2019t always match that expectation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo it is disappointing that, with this legislation, there will be some people that won\u2019t get their 10 days until mid next year because of the provisions in terms of phasing this in, and I think that is disappointing and unnecessary. From the Green Party\u2019s perspective, we believe that this is right to do in principle and it can be done straight away. We were also disappointed to see the reduction in carry-over leave entitlement from 15 days to just 10 days and that, actually, there is\u2014you know, and clearly people who are carrying over their leave are not exploiting their leave. It is really just in those cases, if somebody gets very sick, that they have that and they haven\u2019t used it, and we don\u2019t want to see any reduction in entitlement, and it doesn\u2019t seem to us that we\u2019re in a situation in terms of employment relations in this country where there should be the need for that. I think it\u2019s for the benefit of all of us to actually build up that store of sick leave for times people may need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also just want to acknowledge that we would have preferred to see the 10 days come in from day one of employment but acknowledge that the holidays working group has come to a consensus on that and that there will be an accrual that will start from the first day of employment. We look forward to that legislation coming in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EOne of the other points I wanted to mention\u2014and I do believe it will help deliver on the intent of this legislation and the content of it\u2014is the provisions of proof and employers\u2019 ability to require people to get medical certificates, which is clogging up our healthcare system, a completely unnecessary cost. In lots of areas, it takes weeks to get in to see a GP. We do not need to see people with colds going into their health clinics, putting potentially other people at risk, just because their employer has an automatic distrust of everybody in their workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIf we are going to have that culture that I think it was Todd McClay spoke about, where there is a higher-trust model, actually we should revert to the pre-2014 requirement, where employers can ask for proof and medical certificate if they have reasonable grounds to believe that somebody is not sick. So if they see something on Facebook that somebody has been out partying, then, actually, they can require it, or if somebody\u2019s got a pattern of taking every Monday off, then they require it, but not this automatic assumption that people are ripping off the system, because that creates workplaces of suspicion and undermines the wellbeing and participation of everybody in the workplace. Progress, but not quite good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00229d72fff6e5c54500a353e86f0328f5ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d72fff6e5c54500a353e86f0328f5ab\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in opposition to this bill for a number of reasons. Mainly, the ACT Party believes employers aren\u2019t bad and they deserve a break. This new legislation comes on top of a hugely difficult year for business, where employers feel set upon by this Government: minimum wage increase at the start of the lockdown, a new stat holiday. Next we\u2019ll be giving people time off to attend Peachy\u2014oh, we\u2019re already doing that! Employers just don\u2019t know what\u2019s coming next, but they know it will keep on coming, as we have a Minister who just doesn\u2019t get business, a Minister who said in 2017 that minimum wage increases will only happen if conditions permitted\u2014a one-in-100-year pandemic is obviously not enough!\u2014and the same Minister who said the increased sick leave would \u201Cadd a little bit of cost\u201D to business. Sick leave in 2018 cost businesses $1.7 billion. Just a little bit of cost!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003ESubmitters were divided into two camps: business owners and the employees. The business owners are the ones who put themselves on the line. They\u2019ve taken the risk and employed people. They understand where money comes from. Employees, as human nature dictates, will often take what they can get, and a number of submitters thought that they deserved not two but four weeks\u2019 sick pay. They are currently being enabled by a Government who has a very skewed position on what makes the world go round. ACT opposes this extra burden for employers, especially in today\u2019s environment. Employees are currently entitled to four weeks\u2019 annual leave, 12 stat holidays\u2014that\u2019s over six weeks. They\u2019ve got five days\u2019 sick pay. They\u2019ve got family violence leave, and whatever comes next. Employers are up against it constantly. To suggest that sick leave is not abused and used as annual leave, like some have suggested, by many employees shows a great ignorance and a lack of understanding of what goes on in the actual workforce\u2014unless, of course, you\u2019re looking at it through the union eyes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThose countries that we aspire to be like, on average, are twice as sickly as us. We can expect New Zealand\u2019s sick leave to double. It\u2019s almost $4 billion for employers. We must treat apples with apples if we\u2019re going to compare ourselves with other countries and not just take the good bits. With any pay rise or leave entitlement or other changes in employee conditions, we must look at productivity to make sure that we can pay for it, and unfortunately New Zealand just doesn\u2019t cut it at the moment. We constantly compare ourselves with other countries when it comes to the minimum wage, work conditions, leave provisions but constantly ignore the most important factor that enables these countries to provide different conditions to their employees: much, much higher productivity. Ireland, around No. 4 in the world; Australia, around No. 17; Norway, around No. 6\u2014we\u2019re constantly comparing ourselves with those countries. New Zealand, consistently around No. 28 or 29. To think that paying people more or giving people more holidays and increasing sick leave will increase productivity, which it must do so it can be paid for, shows a very poor understanding of business\u2014and, unfortunately, especially business in New Zealand. This bill could well hurt the very people it intends to help, as has been mentioned before. Employers will look very hard before employing people with health issues, mothers with kids, and those who they would previously have given a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis Government constantly trumpets on about how much help and support they gave businesses during COVID. I just don\u2019t get it. Employees were looked after\u2014effectively, put on a benefit\u2014during lockdown, with a guarantee of employment when it was over. Businesses were assisted in getting a loan if they needed it. The thing about loans is that you have to pay them back. They still had the same rates, power, insurance\u2014in many cases, rent\u2014and all the other fixed costs in running a business. Businesses had to go into debt in order for employees to have a job. If that\u2019s looking after business, I\u2019d hate to think what they get their friends for Christmas. ACT believes employers are good, hard-working people. A number of submitters, while supporting the increase, also stated that their employers looked after them when they needed it. They admitted that the employers were good people and they looked after them, but they still were keen on the extra leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EEmployers are good people. They\u2019re prepared to take the risk to make this economy work. If a business is doing well, employees will do well, despite what you may hear from those who have never owned a business. Unfortunately, in the last four years, businesses have been under attack. This latest unnecessary luxury, coming at a time when most are hurting and trying to recover from COVID, is just another example, and we just wonder what\u2019s next. For these reasons, ACT opposes this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2476a2e60d04c68a95ba5e381966c53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2476a2e60d04c68a95ba5e381966c53\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you. I\u2019m really pleased to be taking a call on this Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. Despite everybody declaring that the sky is falling, it is not. We did have time in the select committee to consider the consequences of this bill, and tonight I want to remind you of some of the gains. People keep talking about cost; I want to tell you about some of the gains that businesses as well as workers told us would come with increasing sick leave to 10 days, the reasons why five days are simply not enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe heard some really intensely personal stories from workers who are really vulnerable, who themselves have ongoing health or disability issues, or are caregivers either of their own children or of their parents or of their brother or sister, and they use up their sick leave really quickly. It can be something as simple as a child with conjunctivitis\u2014can\u2019t go to school. You get it; you can\u2019t go to work. It doesn\u2019t take long for five days to disappear. We heard some really powerful stories from some really articulate people\u2014some of our poorest paid, most vulnerable precariat, mainly women. The decisions that they need to make\u2014they\u2019re not decisions being made in the best interests of public health; rather they\u2019re deciding whether to stay home with a toddler or by themselves to get well and not share their infections, their germs, with others, or whether to pay the rent, or whether to quit their job, or whether to take unpaid leave or personal debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe heard from an amazing young woman who is a home care worker, and she talked about the incredible guilt and tension of knowing she shouldn\u2019t go to work, because she was unwell and she was putting her clients at risk, her colleagues at risk. But she couldn\u2019t afford to do it or she would be sleeping in her car, which is certainly not the best way to get over the flu. It was a powerful testimony, and it is one that we must ensure has an impact on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESome have signalled or indicated\u2014suggested\u2014that COVID isn\u2019t an excuse to have something that should just be temporary; the extra five days should be temporary because it\u2019s just about COVID. But we did have temporary responses put into place. We\u2019ve got the short-term absence payment and the leave support scheme. Rather, what COVID has done is it\u2019s highlighted a couple of things. The Minister spoke earlier about our \u201Ctough it out\u201D culture and how that is not good for anyone. Staying at home keeps others safe: you don\u2019t catch a bus to work; you don\u2019t cough on your clients or on your co-workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI need to talk about this being good business sense. We\u2019ve heard from people on the other side of the House talk about the cost when I know, from having grown up in an entrepreneurial household, that the biggest investment an employer can make is in their workers. I know that. And so this is about improving productivity. When you work while you are sick, the evidence is quite clear: your productivity drops by about 20 percent. This is understood elsewhere on the planet. Australia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, etc., have at least 10 days. We heard evidence from Frog Recruitment\u2014a woman who said that she has given her workers unlimited sick leave. Oh, no, the sky\u2019s going to fall in! They\u2019re going to be taking leave willy-nilly! But the element of trust actually meant that her workers knew that she believed in them and that they were going to look after themselves and take themselves and their job seriously and they would stay home and get well. And she found that they took fewer sick days. Maybe it had something to do with that they weren\u2019t coming into work and getting their co-workers sick. And, very simply, it allows us to meet the societal expectations for reasonable conditions for all workers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThe last thing I\u2019d like to talk about is actually the impact on our children. We did hear from the Privacy Commissioner, and we heard from mothers, we heard from teachers, we heard from unions about the incredibly difficult decision of sending kids to school when they are sick because you cannot afford to not be at work. That child does not have an opportunity to get well. They get long-term implications, illness, things like glue ear, because they do not have an opportunity to stay home and keep well. If parents can take time off and look after them without those financial burdens, without the cost, being able to pay the rent and put the kai on the table, it has an impact on the wellbeing of children\u2019s lives. I know, from being a secondary school teacher, the impact on our young adults when they have to stay home from school and look after their youngest siblings or their nana because mum has to go to work and do a shift. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo, because it is best for productivity, it is best for our workers, it is best for our tamariki, it is best for our society, I wholeheartedly commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022400c8df6c7ad4dd3bc791e89f90e027c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022400c8df6c7ad4dd3bc791e89f90e027c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill, second reading. I was a member of the committee that heard submissions on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI just want to start by delving just very briefly into this whole \u201Celement of trust\u201D malarkey that\u2019s coming from the other side of the House. It\u2019s all very interesting that, when it comes to workers, there is a huge element of trust and they can be trusted not to take advantage of the extra days that they\u2019re given, but every single possible opportunity this Government has to tie up employers in regulations and costs and more red tape, they will take that opportunity every single chance they get because they don\u2019t trust employers\u2014but, of course, we can trust employees; they won\u2019t take advantage of the situation!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EFor goodness\u2019 sake, we\u2019re passing a bill at the moment, from the other side of the House, that\u2019s going to give parents an hour off every term to go to a parent-teacher interview, because we can\u2019t trust employers and employees to work it out amongst themselves to go to a 10-minute interview. So this whole element of trust and \u201CIt\u2019s all going to be wonderful.\u201D is all very well and good but, when it actually comes down to it, this Government doesn\u2019t trust employers. But here we are trusting employees not to take advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ECan I just say that, actually, when it comes down to it, this isn\u2019t a free lunch. This will be paid for somewhere. This billion dollars of cost on the economy isn\u2019t going to be made up for in some magical increase in productivity. And, by the way, the regulatory impact statement, and many of the submitters, said, \u201CActually, there\u2019s no evidence to back up this claim of increased productivity.\u201D It\u2019s anecdotal, it\u2019s from some stories, it\u2019s from some thoughts and feelings from the other side of the House, but the reality is there\u2019s actually no evidence to back this up. From a Government who loves to base everything they do on evidence and facts and science, well, in this case, that was never presented, because it doesn\u2019t exist. It\u2019s just an anecdotal sort of thought and warm fuzzy feeling that productivity will be increased so much that the billion dollars will magically disappear. Well, anyone with any brains knows that that\u2019s not actually the case. Those costs will be passed on somewhere down the chain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe heard from many, many employers who talked about the fact that they will have to pass this cost on through their goods and services, increasing the cost of living for the people who can least afford it. They will cut hours, they will cut shifts, they will hire fewer staff, they will rearrange things so that they\u2019re not employing so many people on a part-time basis, which often goes to those people who need that the most; they will delay wage increases. There will be potential discrimination against the types of people who may be using more sick leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, the other side scoffed at that in select committee and again today, because \u201CThat can\u2019t possibly happen.\u201D But in reality we know that it does. There is that unconscious bias when it comes to companies who are facing huge costs. And let\u2019s remember that not that long ago, last year, we were begging businesses\u2014this Government, this Prime Minister, was begging businesses, \u201CPlease keep hold of your employees. Take on some extra debt. Pivot. Do everything that you can to try and stay afloat. We\u2019re not going to give you any support other than the wage subsidy\u201D\u2014but that went straight to the employees, not to the employer. So the employers got very, very little apart from huge debts, massive stress, a whole lot of loans that they didn\u2019t have before, and, now, on top of that, they\u2019ve got two lots of minimum wage increases\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b747fa316f7c436b9115e8456bf32e16\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Businesses were thrilled with the wage subsidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022859a2715c82c4257bb0298a2e7f9f2f0\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014have another Berocca!\u2014they\u2019ve got a Matariki holiday, they\u2019ve got increased cost of their migrant workforce as well, because those hourly rates have all gone up. On top of that, debts and loans. These guys are under extreme pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314afe3c35aa418caf53360bec262d9d\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Kept our businesses going, workers in employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d8b3390af34ab2a73eb6a451080473\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Keep yelling, love. Listen, the point of the matter is that these costs aren\u2019t going to disappear somewhere into some magically increased productivity. They are going to be borne by the businesses, who will pass this on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229abdea125d6c4b4aba9dc6fca18e1ac4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: To the consumer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285bd43868a2c4ec78a6d9000e639d55c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and then to the consumer, who can least afford it. And they\u2019re going to be passed on in the form of people who will not be employed or who will have their hours reduced, and that is the unintended consequences of something like this. These things don\u2019t just magically disappear; they have to go somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6cd594dde8048fd9d35e7178dd7c23c\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Healthier workplace, better productivity, businesses and workers working together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c13836b9c4a484dba28f0ea39f4dbed\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a stake in the Berocca business because, clearly, business is booming for them! Good Lord.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI just want to finish by saying that the people who came to our select committee, who are the people who are employing the people of New Zealand, told us that the reality of this bill is that their costs will increase and that will have to go somewhere. The productivity gains, which, by the way, can\u2019t be measured and there\u2019s no evidence to show they will actually materialise, will be borne by those who can least afford it, and the other side of the House just refuses to understand that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00222077ff7cd927441ab0564c47b0892085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222077ff7cd927441ab0564c47b0892085\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call on this matter. I\u2019m absolutely delighted to do so. I spent 27 years as an employment lawyer, and this is not a change that is one that I look at in terms of COVID. I think COVID is the lesson about how valuable people are in our society and we should have learnt it a long time ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhen I was an employment lawyer I had one big employer, who at that point in my career distressed me because they actually started to performance manage their staff because they were taking the minimum entitlement in sick leave. Now, that was one of our bigger, richer employers, and it was one that actually employed a lot of men, and I wondered how much it actually encouraged a mentality in that workplace that was machismo, that treated people like they were machines. They\u2019re not machines; they\u2019re human beings, and when we employ human beings, we need to accept that they have families, that they get sick, and that they\u2019re valuable in themselves, and that they shouldn\u2019t be at work when they\u2019re sick and they shouldn\u2019t be at work when they need to stay home and look after their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI remind the last speaker that, in COVID, we actually had a situation where most workers in this country whose employers took the wage subsidy from the Government also took a reduction in wages of 20 percent. They were in there, boots and all, helping. Actually, this is another form of partnership that perhaps the National Party might get its head around. This is actually about us all working together, us all having a stake in things, and us all producing in this country, including the workers of this country. So I am absolutely thrilled at this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also wanted to point out that it\u2019s probably worth a thought that there are employers out there, many employers out there, who pay 10 days\u2019 sick leave\u2014lots of them. They are actually not in an even playing field, when they are competing with people who are cutting back entitlement to such unrealistic levels. I want to see a place in New Zealand for employers to be actually patted on the back and encouraged and supported when they do the right thing, and that means that all the employers who are already paying 10 days\u2019 sick leave are actually going to feel supported when this legislation comes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019m absolutely thrilled to see a change in mentality in this country. It\u2019s been a long time coming, and a lot of people have suffered while we waited for this kind of legislation to recognise that workers are human beings. And that is the end of my call. Thank you. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002241a7881358f94783b46561a323761bf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241a7881358f94783b46561a323761bf9\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this bill tonight, and I want to begin by thanking the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety for bringing this bill to the House early in this term of our Government. This piece of legislation was an important part of Labour\u2019s 2020 election manifesto, and I just want to acknowledge the work of our members in bringing this forward. Many would say that this change is overdue. A lot of people across many parts of our country have worked incredibly hard to bring forward 10 days\u2019 sick leave. This, as the Minister has said, is part of our delivery for working people as we recover from COVID, and as previous speakers have said, we learnt the lessons from COVID about just how important it is to have adequate sick leave so that we can ensure our communities stay healthy. I want to thank the select committee and all of the submitters and officials for all of the hard work they\u2019ve done over the last few months to hear submissions on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI spent many years before coming to this House as an organiser with FIRST Union, and I want to acknowledge their submission. FIRST Union is a private sector union that represents a significant number of people in supermarkets, in banks, in retail, manufacturing, transport industries\u2014many industries where, if people do become unwell, it\u2019s very easy for them to pass their bugs around to co-workers and each other and also people going into their supermarkets, getting on their buses, getting on their trains. So, having spent many years in this industry, I\u2019ve seen and have many, many firsthand examples of what it\u2019s like for workers who actually don\u2019t have access to enough sick leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to respond to a previous speaker, Scott Simpson, who made some comments around supermarkets. I\u2019m actually going to set the record straight around supermarkets. We have two large supermarket chains in this country, one of which is Countdown, and to the best of my knowledge, they still pay eight days of sick leave a year. The previous speaker made some very good points about an even playing field, because the other large chain, Foodstuffs, who own Pak \u2019N Save and New World supermarkets through individual owners, they don\u2019t\u2014most of them, unless they have a collective agreement\u2014pay more than five days\u2019 sick leave. I\u2019ve spent many, many hours attempting to negotiate for more sick leave at Pak \u2019N Save in Richmond, in my electorate of Nelson. What I can say is the owners of those supermarkets are incredibly wealthy multimillionaires, and what I can say on that is that Countdown supermarkets have come to us on many, many occasions asking us to even that playing field, because, actually, supermarkets should be competing on quality of product, on customer service, not on a race to the bottom over wages and conditions that actually lead to poorer outcomes for workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn my experience, there are three reasons why our workers don\u2019t take sick leave. The first, which we\u2019re talking about tonight, is that they don\u2019t have adequate sick leave. It\u2019s very common for people to use up their sick leave on one incident of either themselves or a family member being sick. We have situations now when it\u2019s not just women looking after children; you often have both parents working, and in my experience, it was actually often male-dominated industries, particularly in sawmills, that were arguing really hard to have increased amounts of sick leave, because those wh\u0101nau were finding that, whether it was the mum or the dad who was looking after the child, actually they needed sick leave, both of them, in order to be able to look after their tamariki. But, look, that\u2019s what we\u2019re addressing tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s other things that happen, and one of the things I\u2019ve seen is a significant amount of pressure from employers for people to go in when they\u2019re sick. The classic case which used to come up all the time was workers ringing in sick and being told by the employer, \u201CYou don\u2019t sound sick.\u201D Now, it\u2019s such an old-school way of thinking. There are many times when people are sick and they don\u2019t sound sick but they certainly are sick, and they\u2019re having to prove to that employer that they were genuinely sick and having to have an argument about why they needed to stay home. That\u2019s partly because of our culture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is the third reason, and a few speakers have picked up on that tonight: in the supermarket industry, one of the things I used to find was workers who didn\u2019t want to stay home because they were letting the team down. We\u2019ve had this culture in New Zealand of taking a concrete pill, sucking it up. The \u201Cshe\u2019ll be right\u201D attitude, the \u201Cyou don\u2019t want to show weakness\u201D kind of attitude. Actually, what happened during COVID: we finally had that change, we finally addressed this as a nation and actually said it is important for ourselves, for our wh\u0101nau, for our co-workers, for our communities to stay home when we\u2019re sick. So part of that self-imposed pressure, that culture, is changing, and it\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMany speakers have talked tonight about what is a good employer. In my view, a good employer\u2014and I come from a family of employers as well and have employed people\u2014is one that actually looks at how they can support their workers to be the best that they can be, to be well and to be productive. We know that workers who are treated well, who are respected, will treat their employers well in return. It\u2019s a fallacy to talk about cost, because, actually, if people stay home when they\u2019re sick, they are less likely to spread that sickness to others, actually leading to lower amounts of sick leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow, I signed up to a little tool last year called Flu Tracker, and if others in this House haven\u2019t signed up to Flu Tracker, I encourage you to do so. One of the things we saw last year was that as well as having people staying home to protect themselves from COVID19, we actually had lower levels of flu circulating through our community. So what I say and what I propose is that, if people are able to and our culture changes to where they do stay home when they\u2019re sick, those contagious types of bugs are less likely to be passed around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had people talk tonight around people misusing sick leave, and I do acknowledge there are times when people do that, but I also say there are management tools in existence that should be used to manage when people are misusing sick leave. There\u2019s fantastic case law out there where people who perhaps applied for annual leave, had it declined, had gone on a little jaunt, photo on Facebook, and, look, in those situations, employers have found to be justified in dismissing someone under those circumstances. So, actually, part of this is about employers also using the tools available to them properly to discourage that. But, as I said, we do know that employees who are treated well treat their employers well in return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo, to sum up, we need to change our culture around sick leave. Look across at Australia, where they have 10 days a year. For too long in Aotearoa we\u2019ve been struggling away on only five days a year, and most workers are using that up every year for good reason. So this change, it\u2019s overdue. It\u2019s necessary to continue protecting our communities, and on that note, I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00226383f15f543f4f68b046b19a5a0ea518\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226383f15f543f4f68b046b19a5a0ea518\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to stand against this bill. People tuning in might say, \u201CWell, how can you be against extra holidays? Extra holidays are a good thing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a09e5c057b1a449f81acc909c94c05b9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Holidays?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7530dc201b404195a6d9612dcc006f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Not holidays; sick leave. We\u2019ve had kind of a strange debate. People from the opposite side of the House, Labour members, saying such profound observations like \u201CWorkers are human beings.\u201D Well, I don\u2019t dispute that. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anybody in the House that would dispute the point that workers are human beings, and I don\u2019t think anybody would suggest that anybody would argue the point. I think all people in this House\u2014and that was a very fine observation; I don\u2019t like to be unkind to the member who made it. But the point is that we here all want the best interests of New Zealand workers and New Zealanders generally, and if we lived in a perfect world, there would be no limits on sick leave and there would be very high minimum wages and everything would be great. The only issue is that ultimately what we have to try and navigate our way through is how businesses can stay profitable and continue to employ people. Now, in a free situation, there is nothing stopping any business giving any workers as long a leave as they would like, but what we\u2019re talking about here is legislation ruling a minimum level where they must provide five days at the moment and the proposal in the bill is to double that to 10 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe concern that we have on this side of the House is that while that may be a very welcome thing\u2014and we can all think of many, many instances and many individuals where extra sick leave would be very welcome. The only question is right here right now, at a time when New Zealand businesses are struggling\u2014some are; some aren\u2019t\u2014and that\u2019s been one of the extraordinary elements of this whole COVID saga, that many businesses have continued to prosper and some have really struggled, and those that really struggle, particularly in the hospitality and any tourism-related businesses, are finding it very difficult. What this Government has done is add not just one area of cost to businesses, not two areas of cost, but many, many areas of extra costs to businesses. And those costs don\u2019t just go to business owners; they filter through to customers, because a lot of those costs are passed on, but some can\u2019t be. And some make it very difficult for people to continue successfully in business. That\u2019s why there needs to be care and moderation taken by any Government so as to not make it too difficult for businesses to grow and provide new opportunities for New Zealanders to get work and create their own careers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat I think the mistake that is often made on the other side of the House is to assume that business is all big, hugely profitable, powerful businesses with very large employees, like big supermarket chains, and that this is just something that they can absorb and nobody will notice. But, of course, the reality of New Zealand is that most businesses in New Zealand are small and they have five or 10 employees, they\u2019re mum or dad operators, and they go from GST payment to GST payment. Staying afloat in business can be very, very difficult, and if you\u2019re a tiny little business with three or four employees, employees being sick and on sick leave is not an immaterial issue. It can be very difficult for businesses; so this is meaningful in its impact on those businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ELike I said at the start of this, everybody would like to see all New Zealanders have access to as much sick leave as they require. But here in this House, legislating at a time such as this, just to double sick leave entitlements at the same time as very significantly increasing minimum wages and at the same time as increasing energy costs and increasing petrol levies, and a whole lot of other things that the Government is doing is very much taking for granted the ability of those businesses, large and small in this country, to continue to pay those costs and survive and provide the jobs in order to survive\u2014and also, beyond that, in order to make the investments in their businesses in order to grow this economy and make us more productive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the broader theme that we hear from this Government, and no doubt we\u2019ll hear some more of it in the Budget in the weeks to come, is an attitude which says that the role of Government is just to spend more money and pass laws that force private sector employers to spend more money, and that is the purpose of it all, and isn\u2019t it wonderful! But what we don\u2019t hear anything about is: how do we grow the broader economy and how do we provide a more productive economy so that we as New Zealanders can generate higher incomes and sustain the living standards that we want to sustain over the long period? I don\u2019t hear too much about that at all from any of the legislation coming through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI see a whole lot of legislation providing more, insisting that employers do more for employees, and I see a whole lot of new spending from this Government. I see a few more taxes coming through, higher taxes for individuals, and in the petrol sense, and I see a whole lot of stuff, but the question I ask is: well, where is the growth plan and how are we going to actually get this economy back on track and pay the enormous amount of debt that we\u2019ve taken on over the last year? But perhaps that will be for another day and perhaps we\u2019ll hear about that in the Budget\u2014who knows? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd, on that basis, I say: wouldn\u2019t it be wonderful if it was a simple matter and a painless matter of doubling sick leave entitlements? If that was the case, we\u2019d happily vote for it, but we live in a world where there are many businesses, large and small across this country, that we want to succeed and continue to grow and invest. And if this, along with many, many other costs that this Government has added to the business sector, is all taken into account, rather than making it easier for those businesses to thrive and grow and employ\u2014this Government time and time again is making it more difficult for them. And, on that basis, I oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022090356560b984d4ba8299bc06143964e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022090356560b984d4ba8299bc06143964e\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a call, after the Hon Paul Goldsmith did paint a rather bleak picture of how businesses are doing in New Zealand. Look, we certainly acknowledge that many businesses have found it difficult during COVID, but the reality is most of the businesses I talk to at the moment are actually doing fairly well. Yes, there are some challenges around accessing labour at times, but most of the businesses have got high levels of demand and they\u2019re doing pretty well, and they\u2019re certainly very grateful to the Government, particularly around the wage subsidy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI appreciate the opportunity to speak on this bill at the second reading. This bill increases sick leave to 10 days and, by doing that, supports workers and gives more flexibility to working families, and I\u2019d like to start on that point there. I know we have heard from a few speakers the aspect around the flexibility for families, but just to share my personal story, my wife and I have four children. We didn\u2019t get the memo to stop at two; we sort of carried on. But the memo didn\u2019t\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8d924859a74896aeb9212b85e6ee9a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Four\u2019s best\u2014four\u2019s best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a0655fb6d14e218fd3ec82b66dbc0e\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge a few others here who missed that memo, but back to the bill. So we have four beautiful children. We actually had four under five, and there was a period in our life when things were fairly intense. We, however, were fortunate enough that I was able to work and my wife was able to stay home for around about 10 years and look after the children. So the reality is, when the children were sick\u2014which the reality is, you know; they often are\u2014my wife was able to look after them. But that is not the case for many, many families in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ENow, for many families in New Zealand, when the children are sick, they\u2019ve got a very difficult choice to make. The reality is that they can stay home and look after the children, but they can only do that for five days per year, and after that, there are a whole range of contorted outcomes that take place, and they have impact across a wide range of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWhen the children are over the age of five, it\u2019s the same sort of situation. If the children are sick, one of the parents needs to stay home because the children can\u2019t go to school. But often what is happening is the children are going to school sick, and, as a former schoolteacher, I\u2019ve seen many children in my class coughing all over kids and I know that it\u2019s just going to spread throughout the classroom. So this is a practical piece of legislation and it has a wider impact, rather than just on the person who is sick themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to touch on the aspect around businesses, because we have heard from the Opposition that the employers\u2014the Opposition have basically been saying that they think the employees will take advantage of this; so the employees will look to just ramp it right up to 10 days and just try and abuse the system. That is not the example that we\u2019ve seen in other countries who have raised their sick leave up to 10 days, and I don\u2019t believe that this will be the example that we will see here. The reality is most people are good, honest people, and they only take a sick day if they are sick. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EFor me, myself, I take very few sick days, but I do know that at any point in my life I might come across a situation where I fall upon challenging times and I do need to take sick days. I probably have taken those \u201Cconcrete pills\u201D that we\u2019ve heard about from previous speakers, and I have gone to work sick most times, and if I tease out why that is, it probably comes from my childhood and it probably comes from, as well\u2014as we\u2019ve heard from previous speakers\u2014not letting the employer down. But when going to work sick, you are not supporting your employer\u2014you are not helping your employer\u2014and that argument has certainly been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve heard some very strong arguments from this side of the House across a range of areas, but I\u2019d particularly like to just highlight those two aspects around the children and around the fact that if you do go to work sick, you\u2019re actually hurting your business and your employer. This side of the House certainly commends this bill to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022106fc1dcac8547ee9e060893f8c99f90\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000723\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e930989b5db49f79ece895a463efcf1\u0022\u003EFinancial Market Infrastructures Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f70fcac302134544a5dd5d10d24aed30\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000726\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 4 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00225898da2946b54e38a609a44c18082443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225898da2946b54e38a609a44c18082443\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Last time the debate was interrupted on the third reading of this bill, Greg O\u2019Connor had the call. He has eight minutes and 12 seconds left, if he wishes to take it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227877bd57ed7747d49b0bd97785dfb33f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227877bd57ed7747d49b0bd97785dfb33f\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I felt that I was just reaching the crescendo of my speech at the time when the night came to an end, and when one is speaking on something as really intrinsically interesting as the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill, it deserves to be given licence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOften, when trying to explain what this is, it\u2019s sometimes easier to go into things that it\u2019s not. There will be some around the House who remember when workers were mostly paid in cash\u2014not the type of cashie\u2019s backhander that we talked about, perhaps, today that also help to lubricate our working system, but actually a right to be paid with a payslip. Those were relatively simple days, because you would take that money, take it home, distribute it, and pay many of your bills, and life was done in cash. However, those days are something of the past. As we\u2019ve become more sophisticated in the way we remunerate each other, so we have built this infrastructure around it that we really need to have an intrinsic trust in, and this bill is about that. It\u2019s about ensuring that the plumbing of the whole financial system is robust and is trustworthy, and it won\u2019t fall over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI suppose, again, a better way to look at it would be\u2014again, people will be aware of blockchain and bitcoin and the advent of that. Well, again, that\u2019s a new system of payment that doesn\u2019t have any of these safeguards in it, and the world is watching\u2014I mean, I see, tentatively, many of the managed funds are now starting to dip their toes in the water and buy them. But this is a system that everyone\u2019s very wary of, because it doesn\u2019t have the sort of safeguards that this Financial Market Infrastructures Bill has, and the financial market infrastructures themselves exist to give that trust in the system. Every so often, we see the price of bitcoin heading up around that NZ$100,000 per bitcoin. It will get there very shortly, those speculating\u2014although every so often it drops away and no one really knows why. In fact, I was just reading an article recently that nobody actually really knows who started this thing. So we don\u2019t really know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut when and if it does\u2014and there\u2019s a possibility it may become the currency of the future. Who knows? But if it does, to have the trust that countries will be able to have confidence in to start moving the money around the globe, there will need to be a financial market infrastructures bill like this, because what this bill is doing is actually putting us in line with other international markets so that when we go off to our EFTPOS machine or when we settle a mortgage tomorrow, or on the Friday, which is the traditional settlement day for mortgages\u2014many will be settling this Friday. It\u2019s a matter that the lawyers have got to have confidence in, and the agents, the vendors, and the buyers have all got to have confidence that when they sign that bit of paper, all this money that\u2019s going to shoot around the globe\u2014it may be international. It could be someone in Scotland buying a house in Wadestown and competing with me, and I hope the British pound weakens so he doesn\u2019t have the ability to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut this is what I\u2019d tell anyone who\u2019s wondering why anyone can get excited about this, because when you look at it, you can see that it\u2019s so important a part of our lives. So I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House. It\u2019s in its final reading. I\u2019ve been privileged enough to be working my way through the system, through from first reading right through to where we are today, and through the select committee system as well. So, through that, I\u2019ve been able to develop a little bit of understanding of this. If I can understand it, probably most people can, if they take the time. So, again, I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a167333257cc431498c56793e281adeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a167333257cc431498c56793e281adeb\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s often said that in financial services, regulation follows innovation, and there have been extraordinary amounts of innovation in the financial services and financial markets sector over the course of the last few years\u2014things like trading, clearing, settlement services, reporting services for payments, securities, derivatives, and so on. It\u2019s an incredibly fast-moving area. If these services take hold, which is starting to happen in Aotearoa New Zealand, that provides huge opportunity, competition to banks, new levels of financial services, and secondary and tertiary products and industries that can trail off the back of it. But it is one of those things where in the absence of an effective regulatory regime, that actually tends to dampen innovation, because there\u2019s a level of uncertainty about the operating environment for those services. This is particularly true in financial services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo this is an area in New Zealand which has had a very light level of regulation, and obviously the regulation is also old, and because the innovation is moving so quickly, it needs to be updated. So, on that basis, this is a very good bill. It\u2019s a timely bill, and it\u2019s an important part of the regulatory infrastructure to support the financial markets infrastructure that the bill is intended to address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI wanted to say that I think it\u2019s had a good process, this particular bill. There was an exposure draft in advance of the bill coming into the House. It attracted very little public comment, which shows that it\u2019s not terribly controversial. It\u2019s had support throughout its process, and so I think we\u2019re probably at the point where we can say we\u2019ve done our job and been thorough about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do want to say that I think the intention of the bill is important. That is to protect New Zealand\u2019s financial markets and the participants in it from significant damage, to increase fairness, to increase transparency, and to ensure that good practices are followed in the financial services sector, all of which are consistent with the principles that my party puts forward when it comes to monetary policy or financial services policy as well. So, on that basis, we support this bill and we\u2019re looking forward to its passage into regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebceb11d8f44e90a8c0a0f27e2fe1c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebceb11d8f44e90a8c0a0f27e2fe1c5\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to support the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. As previous members have stated, this is a fairly technical bill but important to the healthy functioning of New Zealand\u2019s economy. The proposed regulatory framework allows our exporters to trade with certainty and to manage their risk. It is incredibly important to the financial security of New Zealand, as was painfully evident in the global financial crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EGenerally speaking, ACT typically does not support additional regulation with great enthusiasm; however, we also feel that fixing a potential market failure is perfectly justifiable and reasonable. We favour an efficient financial system in New Zealand, particularly in times of crisis. This bill provides a regulatory framework to insulate financial markets during periods when the markets can become illiquid and it\u2019s difficult for trades to occur. This bill will assist in providing certainty in such times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EWhen I lived in London in 2007, just as the global financial crisis was unravelling, I saw the significant impact on financial markets, the economy, people\u2019s businesses, and, not least of all, the devastating human cost, including on my own family. So anything we can do to insulate ourselves when such global events crop up is a good thing. We have recently seen issues such as the trading of game stock shares on novel electronic platforms, where investors were exposed to significant losses because of the lack of liquidity in those platforms. We\u2019ve also witnessed a similar series of events with the volatility in the movements of cryptocurrencies. This bill could reduce the impact of these events on New Zealand investors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EACT also favours this bill because it is largely an opt-in system for non-designated financial market infrastructures; however, it is prudent that institutions deemed too big to fail are also mandated to be part of this regime. ACT supports the quest for a more efficient and stable financial system. Supporting this bill would reflect a long consultation period, which has been conducted across the world by organisations such as the International Monetary Fund, and will ensure consistency with our trading partners. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7c82833833248c3b7098ffba0ed70d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7c82833833248c3b7098ffba0ed70d0\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. It\u2019s a privilege to take a call on the third reading of the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. It\u2019s been a long time coming to get to this point where we\u2019re in now at the third reading\u2014eight years, actually; eight years of policy development, consultation\u2014and to the point where we\u2019ve finally got to a bill that is so important, because everybody in this House today, I am pretty sure, has used their EFTPOS cards. An FMI, or a financial market infrastructure, is the payment system that underpins an electronic funds transfer at position of sale. So to anybody who\u2019s used an EFTPOS card, this bill is increasingly incredibly important to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe bill, as previous speakers have said, provides a regulatory regime for FMIs, and, for someone like Aotearoa, who uses EFTPOS\u2014we\u2019re one of the highest users in the world. For example, Payments NZ, in 2019, cleared $6.9 trillion through their FMIs, with the FMIs being settlement before interchange or high value clearing systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAn FMI, as the Minister of Finance in the second reading\u2014he likened it to a plumbing system. You know, it\u2019s just like a plumbing system in a home, and if you\u2019ve got plenty of children there, you know how important the plumbing system is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo when you\u2019re an in-house lawyer or you\u2019re a lawyer and you\u2019re doing submissions for court, one of the really important things is, for a piece of policy that\u2019s taken eight years to develop, in order to help do your submissions to court, you need to track through the Hansard and track through how you got through to the policy development. So I just want to quickly touch on the history of this bill to help that future in-house lawyer, or that lawyer in the future from the Reserve Bank or Treasury, who needs to look back into how we got to this position today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo in March 2013\u2014as I\u2019ve said, this has taken eight years\u2014the Reserve Bank began its first round of consultation by releasing a proposed new regulatory regime. Then, in April 2015\u2014two years later\u2014they then did another round of consultation, and they released a consultation paper to modify the existing statutory framework. Then, in March 2016, the Reserve Bank issued another consultation paper, and that was around the proposed crisis management powers which are covered within this bill. Then, in August 2019, the Reserve Bank published the exposure draft, which previous speakers have spoken to. In that exposure draft, it also had a covering note which now led to what is the regulatory regime, which is in here. Then, finally, in December 2019, we have the bill that is before us today, that was introduced with the first reading on 12 February 2020, the second reading was on 16 March, and then the committee stage was here in 2021. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I want to commend the Minister, the Reserve Bank officials, and Treasury officials for the robust, sound, and well-analysed bill that we have before us today. Good things take time. This bill has taken time, so I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd4940246d7846a8b3669d2a6ba4b9d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd4940246d7846a8b3669d2a6ba4b9d1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022611df901c17e43fd89bbf74103581e4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022611df901c17e43fd89bbf74103581e4c\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s OK\u2014I won\u2019t be needing the five minutes, Madam Speaker. In my second reading contribution on the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill, I think it\u2019s fair to say it\u2019s probably one of the least esteemed speeches of my political career, where I admitted to nearly no technical expertise in the areas which this bill seeks to improve. But I was fortunate enough to hear from a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee who said this about the bill: he said, \u201CIt\u2019s a good bill. We need a good credit card system. Goodness knows where we would be if that system collapsed. My Uber Eats might not get delivered.\u201D That happened to come from Dr Duncan Webb, chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, in a weak moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut he actually had a point, flippant though it was, which was underscored, I think, by Dr McDowall\u2019s and Ms Edmonds\u2019 contributions around the importance of what Barbara Edmonds calls \u201Cthe plumbing\u201D and what the Minister referred to in his speech as \u201Cthe important electronic movement of currency through our financial system\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EActually, James McDowall talked about cryptocurrency, and I think one of the things that we can say about a modern financial system is how incredibly quickly things change. My first job after school, actually, was in the National Bank, stamping cheques and folding bank statements, and that was before the first ATM was introduced into New Zealand in about 1983 or 1984, but we are fast adaptors. We are fast takers-up of technology. EFTPOS is another very good example of the way in which our financial systems have changed over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIndeed, we\u2019re now at the point where cheques are not being issued by banks any more. Very little cash, comparatively speaking\u2014certainly in most parts of the economy\u2014is being used now, so electronic transactions are literally the circulatory system of our economy and our financial system. Therefore, it is important that the regulatory framework continues to keep up with those fast-paced changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s also fair to say that for many people, including myself, the technical aspects of this bill have been somewhat beyond even a chartered accountant and lapsed banker. The importance, then, of officials who are advising the committee and able to articulate to the previous Parliament\u2019s committee in plain English the very, very complex technical aspects of this is absolutely vital, and I think it speaks to the quality of the public sector that we have in this country that we are able to rely on them to the degree that we have. So I want to commend them, together with the submitters who have also helped us make improvements to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got some others. We\u2019re already doing the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Bill, which is before the select committee, which I\u2014I\u2019m pleased to say\u2014know a lot more about and understand even better. It is, nevertheless, still being supported by those submitters and our officials. So I want to commend them and thank them, and I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u002271e86d76c735484597179a5e64fe1407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271e86d76c735484597179a5e64fe1407\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker, and good evening to you and everyone in the House. Tonight, I\u2019m rising in support of the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill, a bill that establishes a new regulatory regime for the regulation and oversight of the financial markets infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI take my two points from previous speakers tonight: first from my colleague Barbara Edmonds and the acknowledgment of a very practical part of our day-to-day lives, an EFTPOS card. I think back to the past 12 to 18 months and the life of COVID-19, and we think to our small businesses across Auckland and across New Zealand, who have had to pivot and adjust and adapt their business models to work within our new world and keep afloat, essentially. And at the other end, our customers have had to change what they purchased and adapt to those evolving markets too, not only because they\u2019re consumers but also because they want to support local business, and that was something special of that last 12 months throughout COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EBut what this bill does, essentially, is it upgrades, I guess, the plumbing\u2014we\u2019ve called it this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626f46028f6a4479a435497872ae67d0\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9486cc3f8a4cd5af70c6e0e94d6523\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT\u003C/span\u003E: It is necessary now. What we experience is that we have financial infrastructure systems, regulatory systems, that are incredibly out of date. It\u2019s important as we rebuild our economy post - COVID-19 that we support our local businesses, that as consumers we go out and buy the things that we want to, that it\u2019s as easy as possible, for all involved it\u2019s as simple as possible. On that basis, I would like to commend this bill to the House. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1893d765b4848e897fb794896ba15c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1893d765b4848e897fb794896ba15c8\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise for the first time on this bill, in contrast to many of the others who have spoken before me. In doing so, I reflect on my colleague and deputy chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, Barbara Edmonds, who, in speaking on this bill in an earlier reading, talked of her past experience as a policy official and about the fundamentals of policy coming back to three very basic questions: what is the problem you are trying to fix, what are the options to fix the problem that you\u2019re trying to fix, and what are the next steps? Tonight, we are at the very final step in this process: the third reading of the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAs we commend this legislation wholeheartedly, and across the political divide, to the House, and as I look back on the speeches by other members\u2014some who will have, by the end of this, spoken three times and participated in the second reading and in committee stages, including my friend Greg O\u2019Connor. He enjoyed saying, with a lot of enthusiasm, that there are several common themes that have come through on this piece of legislation. First is that the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill is very timely. The second is that everyone agrees that it\u2019s a very technical bill and an important bill. And thirdly, in agreeing, everyone is also supporting this bill across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve had to quickly come up to speed with this bill, which seeks to establish a new regulatory framework for financial market infrastructures\u2014that\u2019s FMIs\u2014along with providing certain FMIs with more legal protections and also the enforcement of these rules. The bill makes sure that the Reserve Bank and the Financial Markets Authority, which are the agencies who have the role and the functions of the regulator in the bill, are both given the authority to do the work and given the powers they need to undertake the work. It is a regime based on a framework which also provides the flexibility to allow these regulators to do their job underneath it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThroughout the debate, we\u2019ve heard that the bill is very important, as it\u2019s intended to bring New Zealand\u2019s regulatory framework for FMIs in line with what is best international practice. While I\u2019m new to speaking on this bill, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the select committee for their work in the previous term, officials from the Reserve Bank, and the 10 submitters who took their time to submit on the bill. This bill has been very well consulted on, resulting in the select committee considering and making several amendments to the bill. Those amendments have all been adopted by the House. These include adding a new principal regulator, adding a new streamlined process for transitioning settlement systems, and a variety of other changes, both technical and detailed, designed to support the operation of the new regulatory framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAnother common theme that has appeared through the debate is to provide some more understanding around the technical nature of the bill in everyday language. Far too often when discussing technical, sophisticated financial information, rules, and regulations, we can turn people off. So I enjoyed the advice that my colleague Greg O\u2019Connor shared with us, which he had received, about not getting too overwrought when confronted with a lot of financial papers in front of you; simply just break them down in a way that people will understand. What we\u2019re really talking about is simply a bill that keeps the whole financial system moving, often referred to as, as we\u2019ve heard, the plumbing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EWe know that with all infrastructure, we have to get the systems right to operate effectively and efficiently. While the operational role of FMIs is often taken for granted on a day-to-day basis, they are critical to ensuring the financial system keeps working in a sound and efficient manner. If they break down, this can have a very serious impact on the operation of our financial system and the day-to-day ability for the business and consumers to buy and sell products. We have come a long way and we have done so well to get this bill to where it needs to be. I am very proud to speak on this final reading and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002204075a5e7ccc410ca780946f5f5403db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204075a5e7ccc410ca780946f5f5403db\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E In rising to offer the final contribution in this debate, I\u2019m reminded of that reality, which is that we politicians in this House do an important job but we would be absolutely nowhere without the highly informed and educated officials and public servants behind us who do much of the detailed, difficult work on bills like this and do so with a level of expertise that is, as I think it is fair to say, and with all due respect to all of my colleagues, to a level that is beyond the comprehension of anyone who\u2019s contributed to this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBecause we do have in front of us a very complex piece of legislation that relates to an area of law that is acknowledged by all members as fundamentally important, yet is difficult to understand and opaque to most of us. But what it is is the regulatory regime for financial market infrastructure. And what we know here is that getting the regulation right in this area is vitally important. It\u2019s not just Duncan Webb\u2019s Uber Eats that is at stake. It is the very health of our economy. It is the wages entering the bank accounts. It is financial transactions being able to take place. It is the water running through the pipes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s vitally important. And, as with any regulatory regime, it is important that it keeps pace with technology and the reality of how our money systems have evolved over time. In this area, as in so many other areas of regulation, New Zealand needs to strive to keep up with best practice, to allow for innovation but also to protect from risk. In this area we are doing a bit of catch up with the rest of the world. In doing that catch up, as contributions throughout this debate have acknowledged, we do need to note that we are interdependent here. We can regulate our own financial system in our little corner of the world as well as we like but we are ultimately very dependent on what is happening elsewhere in the world, and there are various aspects of this regime that highlight that reality. I do think that it\u2019s important that we note this for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo National rises to support this bill. We commend the officials and the experts behind the scenes who have put the effort into producing this bill, who understand it better than all of the politicians here tonight. It\u2019s an important piece of catch up. It\u2019s an important piece of regulatory work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00225594d2341ea940ee9839a87e5ee4c507\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225594d2341ea940ee9839a87e5ee4c507\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this bill, and it\u2019s actually a pleasure just to speak on something where, in fact, all the parties agree. It\u2019s a really nice way to end our evening\u2014that we will be doing that. This is a piece of legislation that I have had the delight of watching, for example, Andrew Bayly talk about with a degree of glee because he got to talk about derivatives, and I think, while we glazed over, he was in utter delight at being able to do that. It reminded me, in fact, of when I asked a friend who was really into cricket to explain leg before wicket, and it was quite some time before we came up for air, and I still don\u2019t understand leg before wicket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is one that is actually quite a simple and practical piece of legislation, and I like that. So, rather than talk about it being technical, I think I\u2019ll talk about why it isn\u2019t. It\u2019s a very sensible, common-sense approach. What they have done in this legislation is they\u2019ve put together something where there is actually a real focus on the key instruments that, if they went down, it would be a calamity for us all. So there\u2019s a real focus on those. There\u2019s a real support of those instruments so that they will actually provide appropriate information, so that they will have contingency plans if something goes wrong. That\u2019s one of the really sensible things that, really, it\u2019s crazy we\u2019ve lived without. Obviously, a lot of these institutions would have had those kinds of contingency plans. Now they\u2019ll be required to provide them and make sure that they are really up to scratch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIf the key infrastructure is not providing the kind of information that\u2019s good enough, then there will be the capacity to intervene, and there will even be the capacity to penalise. There\u2019s also the capacity for an instrument that isn\u2019t a key piece of infrastructure to actually opt into this piece of legislation, and that, I think, is a really interesting thing. When you start to build a structure and you start to see people opt in because they would rather be in the safe regime that is present and everybody works within those parameters, that seems to me a very, very useful part of the structure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt is true that these pieces of infrastructure are things that people find it hard to understand are even there. We have used the example repeatedly of EFTPOS, and EFTPOS is the one that we understand. But there are so many parts of the infrastructure that we\u2019re vulnerable to because we don\u2019t understand, and it\u2019s very, very nice to know that somebody who understands a derivative will be looking at this and will be making sure that those parts of the structure that, actually, we rely on, like clearinghouses, like netting\u2014these kinds of things\u2014will be in the hands of people who understand them. They will be watchful and we will not be as insecure as perhaps we have been in the past as these things have developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo this is a piece of legislation that I am not at all surprised that we all agree on, because it is the stuff that will make New Zealanders safer and New Zealand more secure, and it will actually provide a lot of resilience in itself to our economy. It is very, very good that we are all able to see that and that we have managed to put together a piece of legislation that has that kind of consensus across the House. I wasn\u2019t on the select committee when this this happened, and so I\u2019d just like to thank those who have done the hard work. It has clearly been hard work. I thank the submitters, who really have, no doubt, really thought about these things and, obviously, have a lot of information that has been made available. They\u2019ve done a lot of hard work, and that work was adopted in the process. So it wasn\u2019t a waste. It\u2019s a good example of how expert submitters produce really good results through a process that I have come to really admire in terms of its capacity to bring those submitters into the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo, without saying any more, I think it\u2019s really something that I would like to say thank you to everybody involved. I\u2019d like to thank the Opposition for all supporting this. I\u2019d like to thank my colleagues for doing the hard work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210505eb40b278a7174905856e5d314337d52e000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"