"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a2511d219754f0880a28f66bc71a6ca\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 11 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022645c230671884ffa9a2c157c3d3637f1\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 11 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4815f51d2c1498b9ce61d8a196603cc\u0022\u003Ekarakia/prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b00f9475c3874c858d6518ba70b14a55\u0022\u003Ekarakia/prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022de1060933dd54533865f1c4fa32e7bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de1060933dd54533865f1c4fa32e7bc0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te Ku\u012Bni, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220edf9a144bb64db2aa3e27c8d5694a9b\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ff0dd36a95d414e978556a81a93ea4d\u0022\u003ERana Waitai\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022709be62984e14a88b537caf25a26cb22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022709be62984e14a88b537caf25a26cb22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I regret to inform the House of the death on 8 May 2021 of Rana Waitai, who represented the Te Puku o Te Whenua electorate from 1996 to 1999. While in Parliament, Mr Waitai acted as chairperson of the Justice and Law Reform Committee and a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. I desire on behalf of this House to express our sense of loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for his memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMembers observed a period of silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222290cb6644314d6da22ca59e5a94b845\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a16512367adb4459ab7fd039b60e5ddf\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002246cc4251a31b4914a303ada965cb1de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246cc4251a31b4914a303ada965cb1de6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been presented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Management of the Wage Subsidy Scheme. That paper is published under the authority of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESelect committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002208a03b7455c24f608ed37d291b67c956\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208a03b7455c24f608ed37d291b67c956\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the petition of Kamal Badawy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the petition of Charlene Whyte\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Governance and Administration Committee on the petition of Shane Fisher-Van Der Veen\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Einterim report of the Petitions Committee on petitions related to COVID-19 immigration and border policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002259e84704404042c081a39053cb308541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259e84704404042c081a39053cb308541\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf1906d0225b419bade1a402839e81d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf1906d0225b419bade1a402839e81d0\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDrug and Substance Checking Legislation Bill (No 2), introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPlant Variety Rights Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022304015aaab5946c6929f2fc3469381fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022304015aaab5946c6929f2fc3469381fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022924402239ad54d308379f65e0844cd9f\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289de3e6f411f4d99bb8fe3c79fd2fb13\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister, 7 April\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4a006eb101b4de5919a598a182efca3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4a006eb101b4de5919a598a182efca3\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation under Standing Order 366 to correct the record in relation to oral question No. 7 on 7 April 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6b105c0c81e465d909bf30845d29d0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc3fda82fbe4638ac208e604b8a69d1\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: On 7 April 2021, I advised the House that all information historically published through the Office of the Director of Mental Health and Addiction Services\u2019 annual report is publicly available. I did that on the basis of advice from the Ministry of Health that this was the case. Ensuring transparency of the performance of the health and disability system through the publication of data and information is very important to me. This includes providing the public with robust, timely, and fit for purpose data about the performance of the mental health and addiction sector. On Friday afternoon last week, I received further advice from the Ministry of Health that at the time of my statement, seven discrete pieces of relevant information were not publicly reported through other avenues. Today is the first opportunity for me to correct the record in the House. I seek leave to table a briefing from the Ministry of Health in which the Director-General of Health advises that information provided to me was not correct, and apologising to me for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223282f977efd8436d9c33b6ff87b07029\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223282f977efd8436d9c33b6ff87b07029\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287bed7bfcd4e46d39292220a977967c8\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f713110419114a2e9c205ec8ae5a253d\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227feea427983b4dae8e7b521ee4bdc364\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002258be9cb35396433fa3e1cfa191889c5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258be9cb35396433fa3e1cfa191889c5d\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9ace1f2fc2e491d9898d05ebd33464b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9ace1f2fc2e491d9898d05ebd33464b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular our announcements on the weekend to support cancer screening. Budget 2021 will see investment of up to $53 million to complete the design and implementation of a new test which will replace the current smear test for the 1.4 million eligible women aged 25 to 69 years old. The new test will be a simple quick swab that women can eventually choose to do themselves. This will help, we hope, to reduce the barriers to getting screened. In addition, the Government announced support for a new breast-screening system that can proactively identify and enrol eligible women, to reach 271,000 more people who currently aren\u2019t in the programme. These investments continue our work to address some of the country\u2019s longstanding issues and help to reduce the number of people who tragically die from these two diseases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221718f7fc1a974a378c5df3041f11a9ae\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by her various statements that her Government\u2019s COVID response went \u201Chard and early\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b10dbea28a447cae387c84908386f3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd26f0966fd74e87aff9f7343e7b4a25\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How, then, would she characterise her Government\u2019s roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8b1d77ba25491883ce9fdd6c49bd25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: In keeping with our strategy of keeping our people well and safe. If you look around the world and compare ourselves to those countries who have had similar strategies or, indeed, similar relative success in terms of both incidence, infection, and, tragically, the loss of life, you\u2019ll see the likes of Australia, New Zealand\u2014from memory, South Korea, Vietnam, sitting at similar rates of vaccination. In part, that is because, yes, we really were at the front of the pack in terms of securing agreements with companies for the delivery of vaccine. However, distribution is a secondary question. And in my view, I think that we should hold our heads up, that whilst we are in a global environment where some are seeing the devastating impacts of COVID, we have taken our rightful place in the delivery of vaccine, because people simply are not dying in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b057560f22f546c5878b8b7a44dbefe4\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the delay because (a) the Government has a working distribution and booking system but no vaccine; (b) vaccine but no way to distribute it; or (c) a little bit of both?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653c56a943fc4192b7b8ad5da1d8d43b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: All of those are incorrect. In fact, what I would say is we\u2019ve been very deliberate about the fact that our roll-out continues on an upward trajectory in line with the delivery of vaccine that we have certainty around. So we\u2019ve always said we\u2019re working towards a July date for general population roll-out. That sequencing is aligned with when we expect having enough vaccine in the country to start that. We\u2019ve also aligned our roll-out, we hope, with not being in a position of running out\u2014that\u2019s been a risk throughout the roll-out\u2014because one of the issues we face then is if you have a large period with no vaccine to deliver, we have staff sitting idle, vaccination centres sitting idle, and I think none of us want that. So it\u2019s very carefully calibrated and it may be that we run the risk at some point of potentially running out, but we\u2019re working very hard not to have that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f092dcc975db45b489ab48bda605a17f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her Government\u2019s action of proposing so-called fair pay agreements for any sector where 10 percent of workers want them, instead of the one or two sectors, as her Government long led people to believe over several years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebfdd131c0e44dcfafaf7d93956a6e1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I think, just to put this into context, we do have an expectation that there will be limited ability to negotiate fair pay agreements over multiple sectors. We anticipate we may have three to four. The one or two, if I recall, was at the time of where we were in establishing fair pay agreements in the last term in office. We, of course, will have the limited ability to complete large numbers of them. They will include significant resource from both parties. But examples of where we think these will make a big difference are some of those people that we consider to be the heroes of our COVID response. They are those who often through procurement processes do see a continual race to the bottom: our bus drivers, our security guards, our cleaners\u2014those who have not been necessarily well served by our system to date. And like Australia and many others in the OECD, a system like this is designed to rectify that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecedbb64523d450fb80b591b77cb317b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How many fair pay agreements does the Prime Minister believe will be initiated within this parliamentary term, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbbe1daa11d34af882cccf3b6b8a2d20\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course, whilst I\u2019ve just given the member an expectation of some of the sectors we think it may be likely that they may be instigated, ultimately, it will very much depend on those who meet the criteria\u2014and just to be clear on that again: 1,000 workers or 10 percent of the workers in proposed coverage, or there is a public interest test. But that\u2019s very clear. It has to be low paid, low bargaining power, lack of pay progression, long or unsocial hours, or contractual uncertainty that is uncompensated. So, very clear direction there. It came off the back of a large amount of work, the likes of which was led in the first instance by Jim Bolger. That has involved discussions between the unions and Business New Zealand and will go through another process that will involve consultation. Ultimately, though, we believe a system like this\u2014not too dissimilar to what we see in Australia\u2014will be to the benefit of low-paid workers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184ccf90ade84f85b38930b0bc95b58e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How is it democratic for 10 percent of workers in a sector or occupation to start a process which can only end in the compulsory imposition of a contract on everybody in that sector, even if the majority voted against it twice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248353f38ff0040f7b15486bfaa22579c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, the member refers there, rightly, to the ratification process, which does, of course, require a simple majority of both employers and workers voting in favour. So I certainly wouldn\u2019t characterise fair pay agreements in the way the member has, based on that process. The member rightly acknowledges, though, there may be areas in which we have an impasse. And here, I think, an important comparison between us and Australia: Australia\u2019s system right from the outset is an arbitration process of the sort where you are using an independent body; New Zealand\u2019s brings everyone around the table, goes through a bargaining process, and, if you\u2019re unable to get that ratified, then it goes through more of an arbitration-style process. I think that\u2019s right for New Zealand\u2019s context and I think it\u2019s most likely in those circumstances to get us in the right place. The member also mischaracterises fair pay agreements and he makes an assumption that there is generic non-support from employers. There have been queries from employers who wish their industries to be involved, because you\u2019ll find there are some excellent employers who find themselves, for instance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc7026de48f413cb8c95ac3183850a6\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Point of order. I actually didn\u2019t say that about employers; I asked about the workings of the policy in such a circumstance as the majority of people voted against a particular agreement. Now, for the Prime Minister to go on and give a running commentary is well outside Standing Orders, which say that she should only be giving information necessary to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256effccc21984c17afd3238c72ce4529\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the Prime Minister earlier on answered the question and I\u2019ll take notice of the member\u2019s wish to be tighter during questions and answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf94b0b0a46416681be6b07435950be\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the recommendations of the Department of Conservation\u2019s Options Development Group her Government commissioned, when it said it believes in the \u201Cdelegation, transfer and devolution of functions and powers within the conservation system to tangata whenua\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d504c5337ac240a6b8643b0f3c4b860b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I simply have not read the document in full that the member refers to but nor would I expect to at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8cc2e4e732a453788c0a2218b433925\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that the delegation, transfer, and devolution of functions and powers within the conservation system to tangata whenua would be of great interest to New Zealanders, and, if so, why was it not in the Speech from the Throne?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a6c4c7d30c74fd7bb76425228515d41\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would contend that, actually, some of these principles have been contained in the Conservation Act since 1987.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d2cdefacdcd4409a4f96bf46e90ce2a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229cddcac43ca640c2addccefc46ec9c9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cddcac43ca640c2addccefc46ec9c9d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6680c815e144937bb00de9bd91d2f36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6680c815e144937bb00de9bd91d2f36\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Securing the economic recovery in New Zealand is being supported by household spending. Today, Statistics New Zealand announced that seasonally adjusted retail card spending rose to $6.1 billion in April, the highest it has been this year, and up 4 percent on the previous month. The gains have been broad-based, led by the hospitality sector, groceries, apparel, and household durables. While there was a large increase on April 2020 levels, when the country was in lockdown, card spending in April was also up on 2019, rising by 6 percent. The durables industry saw the largest increase compared with April 2019, and this industry includes spending on things like furniture, sporting goods, and pharmaceutical products, and shopping in department stores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c641304855407d8cf0230f44377e90\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bcac42d9dd24cfb839b518f982beef5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The latest global dairy trade auction shows a consolidation of prices for whole-milk powder and skim-milk powder, which rose 0.7 percent and 2 percent respectively. These increases come after the strong gains from earlier in the year and are due to the robust global demand for New Zealand dairy products. This is a positive outlook for farm incomes, those in the regions, and the national economy. Economists are optimistic that the recent strength in prices will persist well into the next season. Nevertheless, the overall index declined 0.7 percent, with butter prices falling 12 percent. This is an important sign that we are still operating in a volatile and uncertain global environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd65c102a7594aed92d8f834332ee952\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the health of the primary sector? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b748c336c54971841cb0345ad9c537\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The dairy industry is not the only one in the primary sector feeling a little more confident. The monthly ANZ Commodity Price Index shows a number of producers are experiencing better returns due to stronger global demand and higher prices. The commodity price index rose 2.3 percent in April, extending its record high. Other than the dairy sector, the lift was driven by strong prices for beef and lamb, which rose 6.2 percent and 8.3 percent respectively, and the forestry index, that rose 3.5 percent in April to hit an all-time high. Throughout COVID, our exporters have helped lead New Zealand\u2019s recovery. They are operating in a market of considerable volatility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022660734027f2a40aebcbdbff248871bea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00228781ebcc1b8d48d98e8ed2def9d5a4f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228781ebcc1b8d48d98e8ed2def9d5a4f7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002285dca69e4eb143b99d099d3f6a6deaa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285dca69e4eb143b99d099d3f6a6deaa1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular our announcement that New Zealand and France will jointly convene a Christchurch Call second anniversary leaders\u2019 summit in May, which will take stock of progress and develop a new shared priority work plan. The Christchurch Call shows a shared commitment by Governments and tech companies to eliminate terrorist and violent extremist content online. It was great to hear on the weekend that the United States will attend this summit. The United States Government\u2019s support for the Call, which they\u2019ve also recently signed up to, recognises the importance of a multi-stakeholder approach to an issue that increasingly transcends borders, ideologies, and nationalities, and the ability of any one group or country to address on their own. I\u2019m proud of the work New Zealand is leading in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220954220402ce4e1593132998767d7762\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with her Minister for Children that Oranga Tamariki removing M\u0101ori children from dangerous situations is a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9595179f5a47ce91c587218676944c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: My view is that, actually, the debate that we are currently having around Oranga Tamariki and whether or not we have succeeded in protecting children as well as we could have was initially instigated in 2016 by Anne Tolley. I want to recognise that Anne Tolley tried to start a conversation which we are trying to continue and complete. And that is a recognition that I think we are all of one view that we must do better to look after the wellbeing of our children and tamariki in New Zealand, and that includes trying to prevent situations where they are uplifted, and trying to continue their relationships and care within wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a8697580a9a4c4d85e9f5ed2c9ee772\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi for Oranga Tamariki to uplift a M\u0101ori child from a dangerous home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f827e4e2c54ca2aa6d0eb00a4aea7c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe that that will be a fair attribution to the Minister\u2019s comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a08e67c084914f8ca8a1b4ff56681ed2\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, then, does she agree with her Minister when he was asked, \u201CCan you see how the Tribunal has come to the decision that Oranga Tamariki has broken the Treaty of Waitangi?\u201D, and he replied, \u201CYeah, absolutely, I agree.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b04cde29de64853ac4ca3537fe1c329\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The Waitangi Tribunal\u2014if I\u2019m summarising what they said in what was a lengthy and helpful contribution to the discussion, it was that we must do better on behalf of tamariki who are in the care of Oranga Tamariki. My offer to the member and to that party would be: how can we work together to improve these circumstances for kids? If their view is that anything that we are currently doing is not about the best interests of children, I would be happy to debate that, but that is not the sense I am getting from these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222258c2e204164bb4b155ee03ce7204b0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with her Minister for Children that families who have, in the eyes of the Government, presented such a danger to their children that the children have had to be removed should now be considered for financial compensation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220894dc3cdac74f33ad54508e9915f762\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, if the member wishes to have a conversation about improving the lot of children, we are here for that conversation. Let\u2019s get back to the fundamentals here: thousands of children are in State care, uplifts are traumatic, and we must stop children from being in circumstances where they are hurt and abused. The best thing we can do is start from preventing the need for them to be uplifted in the first place. If the member wants to discuss the best way to do that, let\u2019s hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a7006fc3fa45b0a288238a0a08548e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does her Government support the Hon Kelvin Davis directing Oranga Tamariki to begin preparing to devolve power and resources to a new M\u0101ori Transition Authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248545599fa01416188d0c89397e84514\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I come back to everything that I have said: if the member thinks that we are doing well at the moment, she has not read any of the statistics about what\u2019s happening to kids. Equally, we have statutory obligations that sit with Oranga Tamariki, and those statutory obligations continue to sit with Oranga Tamariki. What we are discussing\u2014and, actually, a conversation that Anne Tolley rightly started\u2014is whether or not, in working more closely with iwi organisations and wh\u0101nau who know these families well and the children well, we can do a better job at prevention. Now, I would like to hear how we can continue the discussion that Anne Tolley started, because that is what we are trying to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d0fc2034e14077ad4f2dc0185d43a0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe it is acceptable for the Government to remove itself from the protection of all children, regardless of ethnicity, when a New Zealand child is killed by its own family every five weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4181a9a8ba843f3a011a34963d0912b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the claim that was made. The member did not listen to my previous answer around the statutory obligations that still exist within Oranga Tamariki. And, secondly, everything we are doing is about the care and wellbeing of children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c77583f61e4f4ba238c6fe1056d869\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Treasury document He Ara Waiora that taxation is an expression of Crown authority and, to best reflect the Treaty, should be exercised in partnership, and, if so, what would this look like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a40b14d7a3fa4e5ba3491a6d866bd00b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would like to put on notice specific documents for discussion, I\u2019d be happy to discuss them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221882a76cb7c44232b5d884d56dd1a441\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e479e67c3d4d74be7c9d4a93047a9c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8df29682379432eb3a25dc0c119961f\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the comments made at the Iwi Chairs Forum in Porirua on Friday that when K\u0101wanatanga and rangatiratanga work together in partnership, we\u2019ll see great things happening?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d3039fe5b684f6b868663c6a2eb5fe5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, it\u2019s long been the endeavour of Governments, I would have hoped, to make sure that we\u2019re upholding our obligations as Treaty partners in the work that we do. There are actually some examples that I would have thought the member would have been proud of when they were in Government: the work that, actually, they did with T\u016Bhoe around conservation; Waikato, with the Waikato River Authority; Wh\u0101nau Ora; k\u014Dhanga reo. It seems that in Government there is a commitment to partnership, but in Opposition there is a race to the bottom in terms of politicising a debate that we need to have as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8bbad1a0d4480aabdf22911d3d112d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to the draft recommendations of the Department of Conservation that tangata whenua rights and interests in the marine domain still need to be resolved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b508b76f75452782bbc10dc4a90f2f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, if the member wants to get into specific details on recommendations from the Department of Conservation, I would defer the member to the Minister or ask her to put on record those specific documents she wishes to discuss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef6fa89d7a8945b49388fcf00b87f511\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand you just took two supplementary questions off the Opposition during that exchange, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m just wondering what on earth that was for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279867cbbb64945f5a259b9db8842ec0b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: For the raucous laughter when the Hon Kelvin Davis stood to ask a question. Arena Williams\u2014question No. 4. [Interruption] Order! Again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c63bfbb666aa4bc09d875f70a49553ba\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00220b3f4532c1b042aeb5d720dec1a81fdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b3f4532c1b042aeb5d720dec1a81fdc\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What recent announcements has he made on MIQ allocations in relation to supporting economic recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002281a45311e4a8437bb150054ea20ada7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a45311e4a8437bb150054ea20ada7e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Government announced that, over the next 10 months, thousands of skilled and critical workers will be allocated spaces in our managed isolation facilities. To help provide a boost to key sectors, about 500 managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) rooms will be made available every fortnight for this purpose. To date, we\u2019ve already been consistently averaging more than 10 percent of MIQ spaces set aside for economic purposes per month. That was something that the Labour Party promised at the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496f0024c2cf44038fe98e145c72b13e\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Who will this announcement apply to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa8460a79d14f7e9a91d2f612218073\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of the 500 MIQ rooms to be made available fortnightly, we have agreed to allocated spaces for the following groups: around 300 Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme workers every month, from June, with a total of 2,400 arriving by next March; 300 specialist construction workers between June and October; 400 international students for arrival in June, out of the thousand previously announced for the start of semester two; and a hundred refugees every six weeks from July. This is, of course, in addition to those who can enter MIQ through the regular booking system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f1fd063a2364caf954dc73459221356\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement support economic recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022146d76c8fccb4472b7578ca14941828c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This announcement helps some critical sectors in New Zealand get access to the workers they need. It comes off the back of world-leading quarantine-free travel arrangements between Australia and New Zealand and the Cook Islands, and part of our plans to reconnect New Zealand to the world. All of these milestones show momentum that we\u2019re building; seizing opportunities created through New Zealand\u2019s collective response to COVID-19 and the work of our team of 5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbb68a991a24f229bb7b95f1593d077\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What about spaces in MIQ for Kiwis looking to return home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dc8dc43203143588d6074a0cd699b6f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: One of the things that we have balanced very carefully is the need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de59ca066284b18935b9f226c6be8a2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What about migrants just trying to move here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5a2823f2594e7a8a17223845a560ff\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to ask a question, he\u2019s allowed to. In making\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a04b79f699e4dd9ad263e0c189e773e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! I mean, I\u2019m probably stating the self-evident. Well, it\u2019s not helped from that case\u2014continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022011a205e13614a21ba9988a1c65a44a5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this decision, the Government has carefully balanced the need to bring in additional skilled workers, with the need to ensure that New Zealanders have a pathway to return home. At the moment, we have around 20,000 rooms, over the next three months, available to book through the managed isolation system. Now is a good time for New Zealanders to return home. There is space available. And I would also add a word of caution that it\u2019s possible that there will be increased demand later in the year. So for those New Zealanders who are looking to come home, now is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e871452a81f4a0e9e2619414b63315d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd1a65a67e024c66901f4f023304cb3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd1a65a67e024c66901f4f023304cb3d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does the Government intend to restrict new spending in Budget 2021 to the operating allowance of $10.5 billion and capital allowance of $7.8 billion over the four-year period, as set out in the Budget Policy Statement 2021; if not, what are the new operating and capital allowances for Budget 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228e2d9ef9d45d4457ac013ce5dc550418\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e2d9ef9d45d4457ac013ce5dc550418\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I said yesterday, our better-than-expected economic recovery does provide us with more options. There is a bit more space in our operating and capital allowances to support the recovery, but this will be balanced against keeping a lid on debt and allowing us to start reducing debt from the middle of the decade, as outlined in the Budget Policy Statement. This approach is in line with what we said at the time of the Budget Policy Statement\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe allowances are subject to change, as economic and fiscal forecasts are updated for both the New Zealand economy and the global economy.\u201D In answer to the second part of the question, the member has to wait just nine more sleeps, not counting his afternoon naps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acdf61c240440939035ffe70d60a0f1\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree it is important to keep the legacy of debt our children and grandchildren will struggle to repay as low as possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad170b6358c49a68b7f4ca74f54c798\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the record of this Government shows that, prior to COVID-19, we had managed to continue on what previous Governments did of keeping New Zealanders\u2019 debt low relative to other countries. That has continued. Debt remains very low relative to other countries, and we will continue to keep a balance on investing in our future, which involves both the investments we make to build public services but also in keeping debt under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239daa8b452a0432b95c4a68a468bd0fb\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: So why does he think a marginal improvement in Crown accounts is a reason to increase spending in money the Government doesn\u2019t have, when we\u2019re still on track to be over $100 billion more in debt than projected before COVID?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4531ad8cf954b94b1463404e440709c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in my first answer, this is all about striking the right balance between investing in the things that New Zealand needs to do now, the things that many of the member\u2019s colleagues raise in this House around issues like housing or around issues like climate change or around issues like child wellbeing. They all require investment. What is important is keeping a balance to make sure that we do that alongside keeping a lid on debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f28f9ce48d4fa69446a7b8984c4a2c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister regret the 10,000 new bureaucrats hired during the Government\u2019s pre-COVID recruitment binge now that they have to freeze their pay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f9730aa24c4568a069a60c90890f0e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the latter part of that member\u2019s question, and, in answer to the former part of it, I pick up what the Minister for the Public Service said in the House the other day. The people he\u2019s talking about are the people who\u2019ve been keeping us safe at the border, the people who keep us healthy, the people who educate our children. I\u2019m sorry the member doesn\u2019t think that those things are important, but on this side of the House, we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022591334c69fe54f8e8f27cc4d48f97b0d\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Why can the Government fork out more than $100 million for private media organisations but has to recommend that teachers, nurses, police, and the defence force get a pay freeze?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e36feeebb94d83928cf1c20870d599\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject the second part of the member\u2019s question, and I well recall in the last term the enormous pay increases we gave to teachers and nurses because the previous National Government had failed to back them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e2ce90fc33a48b6b3a18adca5be1947\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002237ea16e6ba9e45d08e28f79ad5f211bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237ea16e6ba9e45d08e28f79ad5f211bf\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What recent announcements has she made regarding combating organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002289c34a090fd44f31a3399897e21d8fea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c34a090fd44f31a3399897e21d8fea\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E [Uses sign language] Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, alongside the Minister of Justice, I announced a range of new tools to aid police in their fight against organised crime. The Government will make it illegal for high-risk people to own firearms by introducing the firearms prohibition orders (FPO). FPOs will protect the public from harm by prohibiting high-risk people from accessing, being around, or using firearms. Breaching these conditions of a firearms prohibition order will be a criminal offence. Alongside this, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act will be amended to introduce a new power-enabling seizure of assets of those associated with organised crime where the person\u2019s known legitimate income is likely to have been insufficient to acquire the asset. This Government is taking meaningful action to make sure that we keep our communities safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022803f7da4bac04852b679561380854436\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Who will be targeted by the Government\u2019s firearms prohibition orders regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e880623b81401e8b2425a8e194b372\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s no secret that gun crime is an increasing concern in our communities, and we need to take further action to make sure that New Zealanders and their families are kept safe. FPOs will protect the public from harm by prohibiting high-risk people from accessing, being around, or using firearms. High-risk people include those who commit serious firearms offences, serious violence offences, an offence of participating in an organised criminal group, and terrorism-related offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d9efc36a2a47a7ab8b9617428dffdc\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How will amendments made to the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act further disrupt organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022243303234945457dbb1076720b8d3e25\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Police are hitting gangs where it hurts\u2014their pockets. The new organised crime power will help prevent those involved in organised crime from benefiting from crime and remove the primary reason for organised crime to exist\u2014profit. Police have recently undertaken Operation Cartwright / Chanute in Dunedin, which has resulted in the arrest of four people for various drug offences, and seized $115,000 in cash and eight firearms, and restrained an estimated $4.8 million in illicitly gained assets. Operation Oats in Whang\u0101rei has resulted in two arrests for drug activity and restrained an estimated $1 million in illicitly gained assets. Operation Bronco in Flat Bush has seized 6 kilograms of ephedrine, 2,260 grams of methamphetamine, and $1.07 million in cash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292056136798c47ca8e7ed868f35f2531\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: When announcing her policy, was the Minister aware that the ACT Party had announced and advocated a near-identical policy for six months before she announced it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022780b380245954541b85c184e8119640a\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the ACT member for that question and welcome his support of this particular piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc583c6a38544279a012da2599bd3cdc\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The question was about the Minister\u2019s awareness. She didn\u2019t address that. She just thanked us for support, which we haven\u2019t even given yet because we haven\u2019t seen the detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b13dc801fd01445ca813b809e3803c49\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was implicit in the reply that she was aware of what the member was talking about. [Interruption] I will remind the member he can\u2019t require a yes/no answer\u2014longstanding Speakers\u2019 rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f4246820e94c2d9ce676c90c8cce5e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f723fe8934a74c15a2192f4ee0d49d8a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962967be83cc43b78b0c62ecf1574226\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, Mr Speaker, I just seek, for the benefit of the people at home\u2014when you say that it was implicit, are you saying that it sounded like she was saying yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04956c611164783ba0f7a5f76bbd587\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to answer for the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022607fedb6871b45b0ba1f743af2416eae\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Police Association, who have said that firearm prohibition orders without search powers are useless, and, if so, will the Government\u2019s legislation include warrantless search powers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292392b9de8a543ddbada688aa139b67a\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: No, we won\u2019t. But what I do want to say to this House is that the member\u2019s bill didn\u2019t include these either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222025e2aa815f4c09b982e229712cc89d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister going to do about the recent incident in Taup\u014D where police violently used excessive force in arresting a 14-year-old M\u0101ori child, digging their knee into the child\u2019s neck?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446cf68d81f34b908dc38c42966064d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s not an area for which there\u2019s ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48839ea2d4b4f12b0a177577bf93344\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022381a855856b348f5b65d0f27056607ce\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022834657a68714472fa250229c7ebc4184\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7629b7800744fa389510fc97151f41d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ec7f9158264508ae612567697313e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, it\u2019s just\u2014your colleague was standing up as well. Rawiri Waititi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb5914ee2ba435597e034fe382de5fa\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Age before beauty. Anyway, this is entirely her responsibility. No? She\u2019s the Minister of Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223fb2cb6236604ce68737bf9cd4d677f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fb2cb6236604ce68737bf9cd4d677f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the Minister of Police does not have responsibility for operational matters. Debbie\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e90e75b6ca64badba829c6487779e93\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222fb8bcac8f5a4e4a8c2fc4d2d484b819\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fb8bcac8f5a4e4a8c2fc4d2d484b819\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014sorry. I\u2019ve just got a slight reluctance here when a certain member\u2019s been going for the call on a number of occasions. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a64514d149d4a2e883ec2e3a38b4479\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd27e8f3e79a49ac950f30f047ef01bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd27e8f3e79a49ac950f30f047ef01bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014sorry. I didn\u2019t realise it was a supplementary. A point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db1707a6c0a4100bfc9e0f4641cdb42\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that may well be the case, Mr Speaker, in relation to operational matters. That is for the Minister to say. I have previously been a police spokesperson in this House and have asked dozens of questions around live police\u2014well, not live operations but operations in the past that the Minister is clearly responsible for. So it\u2019s for the Minister to say whether or not something\u2019s an operational matter and she declines to comment; not for you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225bf5fc3ea6a54be5b721047f2205a760\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bf5fc3ea6a54be5b721047f2205a760\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it may well be that the member has asked those questions or has made comments in those areas or has seen them, but it has been the long-term decisions of Speakers in this House that the Minister\u2019s actions and stuff that she has done are her responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff86370f3f484d9e8be0b218c946fa91\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534708a1e225450a8403f04c6062664c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, am I allowed to finish or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfb73ceefb6a41b893851601cf90537d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I thought you had, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e45f3c5b79486c82e164c1a3fd7ab3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a longstanding approach in this House whereby Ministers are asked about Government policies, their actions, and their resourcing. Their views on whether a matter should be taken further, especially where there is a possibility of prosecution, has been long ruled out in this area, and I\u2019ll see if I can find the relative\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972ef13f8c9b4a5abdb3d2ccaa39d451\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab2066d2572e4d6da4a54ef25826fab5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba56c8316e3c4195a206b193a54cabc1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f0d9f47068446c8b6edbbc1c961e1b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right\u2014the member who\u2019s just about to leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e08855f9574d03a118b1eb89433875\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m being asked to leave the Chamber, am I, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dabc983ce41342b89c23a507514a3d78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228269d2b958154f6780ee0d6c0317d330\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaker\u2019s ruling 169/2 is probably a good place to look. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269dcbef76fa742e8ae48a392be4c98ce\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc119114a56249d18014b29c0aea8f78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A further point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281aec3d3f0a34379bfefb1953d874864\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Look, we are going to get into difficulty here, because Ministers are responsible for the actions of their departments. To take an analogy, for example, if I asked Minister Hipkins around the actions or statements made by Dr Bloomfield as the Director-General of Health, that would clearly be\u2014I think we would all agree in the House\u2014within the scope of questions that would be allowed to be asked and answered in question time. Likewise, the actions of\u2014to take Corrections, for example\u2014the chief executive of the Department of Corrections, in response to activities undertaken by corrections officers or prison management, for example, I think, would clearly be within scope as well. So is it your position, Mr Speaker, that the actions of officials or the actions of public sector agencies that the Minister doesn\u2019t have operational responsibility for but has responsibility to the House for are not able to be asked questions about, because that would be, I think, quite a stretch and, really, I think we would have quite some difficulty with that in the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226059f0ae8133483bb9c32451c21c192e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the member\u2019s question is no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220564c2bfbc3d4b459914b3ce6512d01e\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister: what is her view, as Minister, of the recent action of police in Taup\u014D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228802dbffd3a475f96354af16b8b633f\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no doubt that that case is very distressing for all concerned. I believe it\u2019s a matter of investigation with the Independent Police Conduct Authority\u2014it may have already been determined\u2014and that is the appropriate place. What I can comment on, though, is the work that the police are doing to recognise the disproportionate arrest rates for M\u0101ori and Pacific, and I support the work that they are doing to look at how they speak to and stop people, and how they make their charging decisions. I think that speaks to a broader programme of work that the police are undertaking to ensure that we do everything we can to reduce the rates of arrest for M\u0101ori and Pacific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b80fcdacc90c448d867abc95192c48ec\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister doing to address the fact that the police pull guns on M\u0101ori children 3.8 times more than any other ethnicity nationally, and 16 times more in Whanganui\u2014100 percent being M\u0101ori? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf6f333b3b145029f591297a0fddd45\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to reiterate that I applaud the work that the police are doing to understand how it is that we have got these disproportionate rates against M\u0101ori and Pacific. At the end of the day, we are talking about our wh\u0101nau and our people. I support the police in looking at how they stop and speak to individuals, and their charging decisions, as part of the broader piece of work that they are doing in terms of institutional and other unconscious bias. This is work that is difficult, but the police are owning up to the fact that there have been decisions and conduct in the past that has not been helpful in this situation, and I support that they are looking at this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249182407a0d14ef4a94006e359b6ae0a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002261bde8ed172c4d0b9d936c2dc52c52ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261bde8ed172c4d0b9d936c2dc52c52ec\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What is his response to Treasury\u2019s advice that implementing a Fair Pay Agreements regime will have uncertain implications for productivity, and that there is \u201Cminimal empirical evidence for the problem or policy response\u201D it seeks to address?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022da63d3402f9745fbaf29bde3a539852f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da63d3402f9745fbaf29bde3a539852f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Sector level bargaining, of which fair pay agreements are a kind, are recommended by the OECD and are commonplace in many advanced, prosperous economies like Australia, Singapore, and large parts of Europe, many of whom have a stronger productivity record than New Zealand does. In answer to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I would encourage the member to read the report put out by the Rt Hon Sir Jim Bolger and the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b86aaa39891d41e9a333f6a019aea462\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! He\u2019s certainly not a knight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df24d5afb684437d8bc8d196507e1922\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, who produced, along with a range of others, a Fair Pay Agreement Working Group report, which shows that while New Zealand has experienced economic growth and productivity growth over the last 30 years, the share of that going to people\u2014working people\u2014has declined over that period. This is the graph reproduced from that working group report. That is the fundamental problem that we are trying to resolve. After 30 years of a trickle-down model that has failed to deliver for working people and that has not produced the improved productivity performance that was promised, we say that it\u2019s time for a new approach. It\u2019s time to stop the race to the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f9c48ebb2b543c2a76178cb14cea048\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to Treasury\u2019s advice that fair pay agreements may make substantial changes to the economy and risk widespread negative effects on employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240d97aa729c84e348b2be3a49ca27c5e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of making changes to the economy, this Government is a Government which does propose to make changes which benefit those people who are currently being left behind. After the year of COVID, in which we have been reminded of the value of the cleaners, the bus drivers, the supermarket checkout workers\u2014people who have to exist at barely over a minimum wage\u2014we believe it is time to make a change so that those people\u2019s terms and conditions are not driven down by competitive processes. We quite happily stand up and say that we support that change. The other side of the House may be happy with it, but we\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227281a9d9fadb45d69131f6c4c29bfb49\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that Treasury\u2019s concerns about there being minimal empirical evidence for implementing a fair pay agreements regime could possibly relate to his plans that would allow just 10 percent of workers in a sector being able to force the other 90 percent into the regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223387c082931349f0bdc47f373e9653c6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think those two points are related at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cad211456ef495aa8e28c5f3629842d\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that Treasury\u2019s concern about there being minimal empirical evidence for implementing a fair pay agreement regime could relate to his plans that would see a small business in Invercargill having the same conditions imposed on them as a major employer based in the Auckland CBD, just because they\u2019re operating in the same sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3cc52781b3b4a3e809a0b1e6f629153\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d make two points in response to the member\u2019s question. The first is that I believe that Governments which are elected on manifestos, that have a mandate to govern, need to listen to the advice that is given by officials and to carefully consider it, but also to listen to the advice and views that come through from a range of stakeholders, and to hold faith with the commitments they made when they were elected. So members on that side of the House might think that it\u2019s a good way to govern\u2014to just go along with whatever the officials tell you. We actually bring a range of wider considerations into the mix. Secondly, I would encourage the member to actually read the policy which has been put out. He might be too busy at the moment reading Simon Bridges\u2019 biography\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dbac8ebe65a43e3ab1fcd74b10c4fa7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a002eb8987a149a098d27130d57b2c18\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Tourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002248147518543d4af9b58ddc6f55922445\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248147518543d4af9b58ddc6f55922445\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before we go to this question, I will warn members that the Minister has been in touch with me to indicate that this answer is longer than I would generally consider desirable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002268cae4df91bc4551ab2024c0a6ca3b7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268cae4df91bc4551ab2024c0a6ca3b7f\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: What is the Government doing to support the recovery of tourism communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b8122c239b49c89ffad43072308dfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b8122c239b49c89ffad43072308dfa\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last week, I announced the Support, Recovery and Re-set Plan for the tourism communities, to support the social and economic recovery of tourism communities after the impacts of COVID-19 and rebuild tourism on a more sustainable foundation. There were 12 key points in the Tourism Communities Plan. Half are focused on the most vulnerable South Island regions\u2014Fiordland, South Westland, Queenstown Lakes, Mackenzie District, and Kaik\u014Dura. The remaining six are nationwide initiatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESupport for the five South Island communities will address: (1), mental health and social wellbeing support and training; (2) grants for businesses to get expert advice on planning and decision making in response to COVID-19\u2014$5,000 per business; (3) grants to help businesses implement these plans and advice\u2014that\u2019s $5,000 per business; (4) a $49 million kick-start fund so that businesses that have gone into hibernation or suspended operations can receive grants to help them reopen and resume trading once international visitors return; (5) a reset to the Queenstown/Wanaka regional economy, with a $20 million fund to attract private sector investment to diversify and develop alternative industries; and, finally, (6) $15 million to enable the Milford Sound Opportunities Project to move to its next phase. Transformation is needed to protect Milford Sound and create a more sustainable and high-quality visitor experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5b87c8c9a74dadb0600f06987dfa9c\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What are the nationwide initiatives in the recovery plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217be5896531b4ab1889b043c542c22ed\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: This Tourism Communities Plan also offers wide support for the industry as a whole. It is an opportunity for Government, councils, iwi, businesses, and tourism operators and communities to work together and reset the industry on a more sustainable model for the future. There are six additional components to the plan to address longer-term challenges nationwide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe first is regional tourism organisations to receive a new round of grant funding of $26 million to coordinate, promote, and market tourism activities in their regions. Two, $14 million to existing loans to inbound tour operators (ITOs) from the 2020 tourism recovery package will be converted to grants. That means 26 ITOs will receive up to $500,000 each. Three, further investment in M\u0101ori tourism businesses. The details will be announced by the Minister for M\u0101ori Development later this month. Four, $10 million for the Department of Conservation to extend the fee waiver for around a thousand operators on conservation land who pay a tourism concession free. Five, $16.5 million for local councils to be able to apply for another round in the Tourism Infrastructure Fund. And, finally, $10 million for the development of a new tourism industry transformation plan, which will see the Government work in partnership with tourism businesses and the tourism workforce, councils, iwi, and researchers and independent advisers. It will build on recent work by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Tourism Futures Taskforce, and Climate Change Commission, among others, to lift industry standards and transform to a more sustainable model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4166f5e8df4d3b965110a4cc686201\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he received on the Tourism Communities Plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a4589b5cbb48e99fa3004e0e292e99\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of positive feedback. Queenstown Mayor Jim Boult said the announcement would \u201C \u2018turbocharge\u2019 the work done to date on diversifying the economy and \u2018move us to another level\u2019 \u201D. And Destination Kaik\u014Dura manager, Louise Frend, said, \u201COn behalf of Kaikoura it\u2019s up to me to express heartfelt thanks for this very targeted support.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246334027253e46ba878aeac0130a8146\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Usually when Ministers are allowed to take a bit of extra time to answer a question, they\u2019re in relation to very technical or complicated primary questions. I don\u2019t think anyone could reasonably say that question No. 8 on the sheet today is a technical or complicated question. Instead, we\u2019ve just been subjected to about a three- or four-minute speech from the Minister. Mr Speaker, you\u2019ve made it pretty clear your views about that sort of behaviour in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f819ae4e2b643af9ddd0b8513bf20e5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022be86f8c2f27f43c8a0300fe8e9061e87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be86f8c2f27f43c8a0300fe8e9061e87\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: How is restricting the wage increases of nurses, teachers, and border workers who earn between $60,000 and $100,000 in order to \u201Ccontrol the public wage bill\u201D going to \u201Creduce inequality\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1ee8c1272714c4eb432761f49f2d648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1ee8c1272714c4eb432761f49f2d648\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E I reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. Let me restate what I said in my media statement last Wednesday: \u201CWe want to see those on lower wages be the focus of any increases in pay. This is about prioritising spending. The policy will also help protect jobs by taking financial pressure off the public wage bill. It will not impact the work we are doing within the Public Service to close gender and ethnic pay gaps. The public service is doing a good job implementing the Government\u2019s COVID-19 response, and we ask that they lead the way in supporting the Government as we ensure [that] our spending is targeted to where it is needed [the] most.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f0e1e68809543c09dc6eeefe606917b\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Then, why does the recently issued Public Service pay guide say, \u201CThe default position is that there are to be no increases\u201D and that \u201Csalary increases [should] remain low averaged across all staff.\u201D and that \u201Cexecutives in the Public Service should ensure that pay increases do not occur\u201D unless they meet a narrow set of principles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d47a2da82f14d2fa9e72c1777091553\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member, rather than selectively quoting particular pieces of the guidance, needs to read the guidance in its totality. What the Government is endeavouring to achieve is to stop the significant growth in the gap between those lowest paid and those who are higher paid. Across-the-board percentage increases, which we have seen in the last three years, have increased the gap between the lowest paid and the highest paid, and that is unsustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0441469a94d40c6801a2abdaa89b6f8\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he keep playing off low-income workers who earn under $60,000 against other essential workers like nurses, teachers, or border workers, who have also been working their guts out for relatively modest incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cbaf63870d04399985014eba65ef05b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. I don\u2019t believe that that is what the Government is doing. What the Government is saying is if we continue to provide across-the-board pay increases that see the majority of the money going to people on the highest salaries, the inequality in the public sector will continue to increase, and that is not something that this Government wants to see continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ebdb4774d4e4ff38170aff2dd6464d7\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that in May 2018, 70 percent of nurses and midwives were already employed on the top pay band, with no further progression possible, as was stated in the 2018 New Zealand Nurses Organisation submission to the independent panel to resolve the DHB multi-employer collective agreement negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d801311692764d6daa08c53f6def9b56\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Our awareness of the fact that many nurses and teachers sit at the top of their current pay scale is reflected in the fact that over five years, this Government has injected an extra $4.2 billion into pay settlements with those workforces. What the Government is saying is it\u2019s time for those at the bottom end of the salary scale, who are not reflected in the settlements reached with those workforces, to get a bit of a break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d51d22809d4afa981d5b448b6042a9\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Will he revise the recently released Public Service pay guide document so that those earning over $60,000 can also bargain in good-faith for the pay increases they surely deserve after a really tough year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762131ffb3894134a55ee927cecfbc51\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing in the guidance stops bargaining in good-faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022caf78646ad9a4a91a0f93233787d36e6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u002214ac3a9fb8174271926438d3b7c4e5f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214ac3a9fb8174271926438d3b7c4e5f4\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: What recent announcements has she made about improving cancer screening programmes for women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00220c99fb7aa4384296b90d583c00f88fd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c99fb7aa4384296b90d583c00f88fd8\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2021 focuses on securing our recovery while making investments that improve the lives of New Zealanders. This year\u2019s Budget will deliver a better cervical-screening test and a major upgrade of the breast cancer screening system that will save lives. These initiatives build on our last three Budgets, where we have made significant investments in health, including delivering the biggest funding boost to maternity care in a decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c847383e37146eeb66bc1c3e2de9a81\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: How will the new cervical-screening test increase the number of w\u0101hine who get screened for cervical cancer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4f972c3e904b5eaf8f3e95bd90a6c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: The persistent inequalities around cervical cancer has been one of the longstanding issues in women\u2019s health. Our investment of up to $53 million to complete the design and implement a new test for human papilloma virus\u2014or HPV; the cause of 99 percent of cervical cancers\u2014will make a real difference. The new test, which will replace the current cervical smear test for the 1.4 million eligible women aged 25 to 69 years old, is a simple and quick swab that women will eventually be able to choose to do for themselves. This will help reduce the barriers to getting screened. Modelling predicts that the move to HPV screening will prevent about 400 additional cervical cancers over 17 years and will save about 138 additional lives. Around a third of the cases prevented and lives saved will be w\u0101hine M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f57bd4151442c69681893801e71ba6\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What are the changes to the breast-screening programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e099812f5f5a469e9d8ac64ac5e8b25d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is committed to improving the health outcomes for our hard-to-reach communities. The existing breast cancer screening programme operates as an opt-in model, where women choose to enrol for screening by calling their GP or an 0800 number. This relies on women knowing that they are eligible for free breast screening and making an appointment themselves. The new technology funded through Budget 2021 will better equip the programme to reach the 271,000 women who are currently eligible to access breast screening but are not currently screened. With more M\u0101ori and Pacific women dying from breast cancer compared to non-M\u0101ori, non-Pacific women, the new system will allow BreastScreen Aotearoa to identify and target groups of women who may not currently be part of the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cae4bb56c034f56b52b124e605f2b54\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022022d10ec27c74319b4910bd1ea111cf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022022d10ec27c74319b4910bd1ea111cf9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions in relation to public sector pay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5527eee705c4678b66c995486276780\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5527eee705c4678b66c995486276780\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E In general, yes. However, I do regret that details of the new pay guidance for Public Service agencies has been inaccurately characterised as a pay freeze. It is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227efb4eda4909406abddc1cc8d3fa724c\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider backing down, changing, or amending the decision in relation to public sector pay restraints?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d9e03481014ba5ac3e42769a2ca928\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member clearly wasn\u2019t listening to the answers I already gave to my colleague from the Green Party: no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c4f00d963a4f7db38fe8ed038a1358\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265702654b79f4f1e96344e8ae9fb2e9a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Because this Government is unashamedly wanting to ensure that pay increases are targeted at those on the lowest incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44003ee8fef46bca9974fd293b67068\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it\u2019s fair to restrain for three years the pay of a teacher or nurse earning $60,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd4dd67dc624cb4bd30b115bdc2eeec\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject that that\u2019s what the guidance does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219fb1faedbe7490cacbbb2ef5140cb54\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Rural Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a6695565554e1187f0b30a8bd56e42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a6695565554e1187f0b30a8bd56e42\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rural Communities: What concerns, if any, have been raised with him about the impacts of Government policies on rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002202e1518ed2fe4d5a9c28d0b43ac1637c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202e1518ed2fe4d5a9c28d0b43ac1637c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E As I get out around my electorate and the wider country, there is never a shortage of opinions on many issues, and I listen to what is top of mind for many of those communities. There are issues like water, bank closures, live exports, climate policy, and afforestation. I\u2019m honoured to be in Parliament here with a large number of Labour MPs who are passionate advocates for rural communities, as well, and they pass on to me the issues as raised with them, on a regular basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f2182a39df4a54a808bd351710553c\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still believe that the Government\u2019s freshwater reforms will need to be \u201Ctweaked\u201D to better accommodate regional differences, and, if so, what further actions will be taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd6e38fd08e4aa0a945114b987be0c0\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do, and we have indeed tweaked them; we\u2019ve just parked them for 12 months to work through the issues to ensure that when they are implemented\u2014and the goals of better, cleaner water across New Zealand, I think, are ones that every New Zealander aspires to\u2014that we can give effect to the right outcomes in each of the regions. The regions will have different challenges; we acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e546b544c7504952adb076178bf13b94\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned at the findings of Tailrisk Economics, who concluded that the Government\u2019s freshwater reforms will cost the country $3.2 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0c3fa7a36447d4beac67742d68728f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t agree with that at all. And what I will say is that, actually, \u201CBrand New Zealand\u201D is worth a huge amount across the world. And as I regularly speak to trade Ministers from across the world, they acknowledge two things. Firstly is our progress and, I guess, our achievements in COVID\u2014that\u2019s the first thing. The second thing is that they aspire to be like us when it comes to animal protein production in our faming systems. And, of course, that\u2019s built off the back of a reputation for good environmental management, good labour management, and good animal welfare management. It\u2019s up to us to make sure we adhere to those high standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a68c36cccad49e5857535b8d9b73154\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How does he respond to Federated Farmers, who stated, in relation to the managed isolation policy, that they were \u201Cdeeply disappointed the government\u2019s exception announcement today shows it could not find a way to bring 500 desperately needed skilled dairy employees into the country.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e728f749f17409d95d9c83769b4f4fb\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m happy to speak on that. The dairy industry is our biggest industry in this country. It is important that we have people working in that sector. I\u2019d like to quote Andrew Hoggard, the president of Federated Farmers, who said that, actually, farmers now have to realise that people should work probably on maximum about 50 hours a week, and get two days off. That\u2019s what he said because that is what is needed to provide fair labour conditions to attract people. I\u2019d also like to go on to say that, actually, the Ministry for Primary Industries, the Government, and taxpayers committed $900,000 to a campaign called GoDairy, which was to attract people into the dairy industry last year. And, in November last year, the dairy industry decided to pull out of that campaign because it was after spring. It\u2019s a reminder to them that, actually, we need enduring, well-meaning, and well-focused campaigns to attract people into dairy. Simply knocking on the door of Government and saying, \u201CWe need $500 now, but not later\u201D is a big challenge, when my colleague is trying to manage limited space in managed isolation and quarantine facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d681cca6b295442bba1cf9119966ff33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d681cca6b295442bba1cf9119966ff33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afa7a2365b4d4b6f95a0fa9d382baa8f\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221312de2759294f10956aaf97d79f02a9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000227\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 4 May on the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e277d469fae54eb99049119cd12e2617\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e277d469fae54eb99049119cd12e2617\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0101ti r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[If I may, greetings all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. This is the debate on the financial position of the Government and the annual reviews of departments, Offices of Parliament, Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises, as reported by select committees. There are five hours 11 minutes remaining in this debate. New Zealand Labour has two hours 58 minutes remaining, New Zealand National has one hour 20 minutes remaining, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 34 minutes remaining, the ACT Party has 25 minutes remaining, and Te Paati M\u0101ori has eight minutes remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMembers will recall that Standing Orders 356(2) and (3) have been set aside, so there will be no sector-specific debates. All annual reviews are available for debate, but only specific Ministers will be available each day to respond. The Government has indicated that the Minister of Transport, the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Minister for Economic and Regional Development and of Tourism, the Minister of Housing and the Minister of Energy and Resources, the Minister of Immigration, the Minister of Corrections, the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, and the Minister of Police will be available today. Each debate will be led off by the chairperson or another member of the select committee that considered annual reviews most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolios. At the conclusion of the debate, questions will be put noting the committee reports on annual reviews and on provisions of the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. There is no amendment or debate on these questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWhen the committee was last considering the bill, the question was that the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the annual financial statements of the Government for the 2019/20 financial year be noted. Dr Duncan Webb had the call, should he wish\u2014nope. OK. We have the Hon Michael Wood in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222af858e61f134dc7b6a205eeb9ac2b25\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002251bc3587e50d43a3b6c86d677531cdc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251bc3587e50d43a3b6c86d677531cdc9\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Chairperson of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I rise as the chairman of the hard-working Transport and Infrastructure Committee. I also acknowledge the Minister in the chair, Minister Wood, who recently scored nine out of 10 on a review of Ministers, and I\u2019d like to think that\u2019s something of a reflection of the collegiality and the hard work of the committee, and I acknowledge my committee members here in the Chamber today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe entities we examined were Air New Zealand; Airways Corporation of New Zealand; Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand; KiwiRail Holdings Ltd, who appeared with the New Zealand Railways Corporation; the Ministry of Transport; Waka Kotahi New Zealand Transport Agency; and Meridian Energy Ltd. Really, the story of our reviews this year was COVID, and I go to the first entity we examined, which was Air New Zealand, probably one of the entities that was most affected by COVID, although, bearing in mind this is a backward-looking review; that only went through part of the period in review\u2014part of the period affected by COVID\u2014but it was significant and certainly was showing up in the accounts of all the entities we examined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI guess, even when the entity arrived, Greg Foran, the recently appointed chief executive, the thing he did point out was that they had reduced their executive team from nine to six members, again, reflecting that. I do note that on our committee we had the ex-CEO of Air New Zealand and I\u2019m sure\u2014I won\u2019t speak for him but he was very pleased that he was on our side of the table, not sitting at the end being examined, given the state of the airline and given the effect of COVID on it. Of course, Air New Zealand\u2019s operating expenses declined by 12 percent but that was reflected by a loss\u2014instead of 2019-20, $4.8 billion, the revenue has reduced to $1.2 billion, a 59 percent decrease\u2014and, of course, for the other entities we were then to examine, that was reflected right through. But just some of the effects on Air New Zealand, they, of course, required a $900 million standby loan facility, but they also received $113 million in wage subsidies. So again, Air New Zealand, as the first entity that we did examine, certainly set the scene. They had to reduce staff by 30 percent, which is approximately 4,000 people, at a cost of $140 million in redundancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EGiven the time restraints, I\u2019ll go on. We also examined the Airways Corporation. Again, their income was similarly affected because they derive their income from the airline activity, as do the Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand. The only thing with civil aviation, of course, is that some of their members, we did hear, were able to be transferred to take part in managed isolation. Moving through to the Ministry of Transport, one of the main things that came out of that was the effect on the supply chains, in particular, and we heard that the inter-agency supply chain group was brought together to address these issues. We also examined KiwiRail and KiwiRail Holdings and KiwiRail\u2019s corporation, and I should, of course, mention at this stage the then chairman, Brian Corban, who\u2019s now recently deceased, and we acknowledge his passing here in the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EJust in the time left to me, we did also examine Waka Kotahi and Meridian Energy, but I think, just for the Minister in the chair, I\u2019d just like to leave him with a couple of questions, given what we did here. Could he elaborate, please: what Government measures did the Minister think made the difference in keeping our transport system up and running and our supply chains moving, given what I\u2019ve spoken about and what we heard as a committee about the effect of COVID? Also, just perhaps he could talk about how the Government investment in the transport sector can aid our economic recovery? What evidence is there of such investment over the last year? I look forward to the Minister answering some of these queries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e687bf34eef446f1b128d3ccc34252f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e687bf34eef446f1b128d3ccc34252f0\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to commence my questions to the Minister in respect of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, which was announced during the annual review period in January last year, $12 billion \u2013 odd of which $6.8 billion, I think, was of transport and $5.8 billion of roading projects. There\u2019s been some recent publicity that there is equivocation now on the degree of commitment to that, and this, I guess, is the opportunity for the Minister to clear that up. There is concern\u2014and the Minister has acknowledged\u2014the baseline estimates that informed that announcement may now need to be revised, and there was equivocation when the Minister was asked about what that meant for those projects and whether any of them would be delayed past the Government\u2019s original time frame or cancelled altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the Prime Minister, when she joined the Minister of Transport in this announcement, was very clear that the upgrade was spades in the ground within a year. I accept that that\u2019s not going to be possible for all of the projects\u2014and, indeed, there are spades in the ground on some of them\u2014but there are some really, really big projects that I think could be at risk, and I think it behoves the Minister to give the House and the committee sort of an articulation of where that risk might be, recognising that he can\u2019t breach any budget constraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022688c709393f4478ead1a4f3882c06b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022688c709393f4478ead1a4f3882c06b79\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the members for their questions and I\u2019ll come to some responses to those in a moment. Just at the outset, can I thank the select committee for its work on the annual reviews this year, acknowledge officials who participated in that process as well, and, actually, most importantly, acknowledge the women and men who work across our transport agencies and have had an extremely tough year. I mean, everyone has, across this country, as we\u2019ve dealt with COVID, but the impact and the disruption within our transport systems has been absolutely immense, and often it\u2019s been very fast policy and operational work from people within transport that has ensured that critical supply chains, critical public transport, and other things within our transport system have kept functioning as we\u2019ve dealt with the massive disruption of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EYou look at sectors like maritime and civil aviation, for example. Their revenue streams dropped off almost completely as a result of border shut downs. So Government and those agencies have had to work together very, very closely, and at all times there has been total professionalism from the people involved in the sector, both public and private, to make sure that we keep New Zealand moving, and it\u2019s appropriate to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe other acknowledgment I\u2019ll make before touching on these questions is just to echo the chair of the select committee, Greg O\u2019Connor, in his comments about Brian Corban, our chair of KiwiRail, who unfortunately died within the week, who has a long record of service and had, I think, done an incredible job of overseeing that State-owned enterprise and its transformation to a resilient and reliable provider of rail over the last three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMr O\u2019Connor asked a couple of questions, the first related to the point I just made around our supply chain. He asked about some of the measures that the Government has undertaken to ensure that our supply chain does keep moving and has kept moving over this challenging period. Probably the key measure that I\u2019d identify there has been the work that we\u2019ve done in aviation. The International Air Freight Capacity scheme, now called the Maintaining International Air Connectivity scheme, has been absolutely central to it. I\u2019ll acknowledge the previous Minister, the Hon Phil Twyford, who worked with the sector through the Ministry of Transport to get this scheme up and going last year. Investment of over $300 million, recognising that 80 percent to 90 percent of New Zealand\u2019s airfreight usually goes in the belly hold beneath passengers\u2014Mr Luxon\u2019s aware of these dynamics\u2014and that capacity dropped off when the international air passenger market was killed off in about March of last year. So there needed to be some intervention immediately to make sure that critical imports and exports did continue to flow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve recently announced a renewal of that scheme, an updating of its objectives, to make sure that it\u2019s appropriate, and that has, I think, been a really critical part of ensuring that those supply chains continue to go\u2014particularly things like pharmaceuticals, time-critical exports of seafood, fresh produce, for example, that you can\u2019t put on ships, that has been getting in and out of our country and has been maintaining a very, very high level of our aviation imports and exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMr O\u2019Connor also asked, more generally, about the kind of measures that we can be putting in place to aid the economic recovery. This is critical. This goes a little bit to Mr Woodhouse\u2019s question as well. While the New Zealand Upgrade Programme (NZUP) was announced before COVID-19 reared its ugly head, transport and the infrastructure spend more generally does have a really important part to play in the economic recovery. So we currently have around about 800 people working on NZUP programmes around the country at the moment. Those are good jobs, which are providing income to families and communities, supporting economic activity in regions that might have had job losses because of the impact of the pandemic, and we\u2019ll continue to make those investments as we go along. I can think of individual projects\u2014for example, like the Third Main in Auckland, employing around about 200 people on a critical project that will improve rail in Auckland\u2014but we\u2019re also stimulating the economy, keeping people in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMr Woodhouse moved on to ask more specifically about the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, and he is correct in identifying that we are working through a baselining exercise as a part of the programme. I think that\u2019s very appropriate. This is a very significant programme. It\u2019s a $6.8 billion package of investments, and I think it is very important as we move through some of them\u2014and some of the individual projects within that are extremely large; we\u2019re talking many hundreds of millions of dollars in some cases\u2014as we begin to get a clearer understanding of the issues, the scope, the geotechnical work, all of those sorts of things, that we just reassure ourselves that we\u2019re managing the costs, that there\u2019s clear understanding between the delivery agencies and the Government about the fundamental scope of what we are trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a process that we\u2019re working through now. I think it\u2019s a robust process. I think it\u2019s a prudent process for us to work through, but I do note\u2014and this is very, very important\u2014that that hasn\u2019t stymied the progress of the programme overall. We currently have 13 of those projects under way. There will be further announcements coming out pretty soon that will add to that list as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022181580aad02042babb7c0b025699be9c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: When?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b1c5788a5c54e18a62e08a7703c46a7\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The member will just have to wait but I can assure him it won\u2019t be too far to wait\u2014but 13 projects already under way. So there is a significant amount of work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666a71ad0c4b405395ce4ee27cd4d927\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: And they were the easy ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9675e8f12740d181fa2bb5c7655b18\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014employing 800 people at the moment. I just do make the point to the members who are asking those questions that we do have a recent example of a project in Transmission Gully where we\u2019ve had to, sort of, tidy things up at the back-end because the initial work on the scoping, the geotech, making sure that budgets were aligned to the job that we were actually delivering wasn\u2019t done at the front-end. I think it\u2019s much better that we work through that process clearly now, and then we can give absolute clarity about the timings of those projects. But I remain very confined that we have excellent delivery. And we will be delivering on all of those core works that were identified in the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223680a053506a4cd1a806f41f07aaa2d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223680a053506a4cd1a806f41f07aaa2d4\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you very much, Minister, for your speech, and I just want to acknowledge the other members of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI just wanted to raise a couple of things that came up at the annual review. Firstly, climate change and how it\u2019s absolutely imperative that we make significant reductions in carbon emissions from transport over the next decade. That will mean a very, very different approach to infrastructure investment than what we had been planning in the past. Secondly, cost overruns on State highway projects. We discussed at the select committee how about 17 State highway projects had resulted in $1.1 billion of additional funding needing to go towards those projects. Those were all projects that were commenced under the last National Government. The consequence of those cost overruns in the State highways programme has been that there\u2019s been a reduction in the funding available for sustainable transport options like active transport in our cities, public transport investment, and rail. And so that brings me, Minister, to this graph which was produced by the Infrastructure Commission. Maybe you\u2019ve seen the briefing to the incoming Minister. I\u2019ll just hold it above the captions so that people can see it at home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat this shows is Waka Kotahi New Zealand Transport Agency\u2019s forward capital commitments going back as far as 2015, going out to 2028. The red line is existing commitments for road. The vast majority of that will be within the new State highways or State highway improvements activity class. Then you see, from 2019, there was a big increase from the New Zealand upgrade. So, over time, there was no actual reduction in the committed funding for State highways. Unlike what the National Party was saying at the time, it was still very considerable. And now we\u2019ve added on a few more billion for State highways. There\u2019s a tiny green line here, a little sliver, and a tiny blue line, which indicates capital forward committed funding for rail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, what concerns me about this graph is that about 90 percent of the funding has been committed, and it\u2019s huge sums of money already, irrespective of any cost overruns that might happen in the future for State highways. And while I know people at home might be thinking, \u201CWell, we have to use cars to get around, so we need improvements to our State highways.\u201D, unfortunately, these few projects are extremely expensive. They don\u2019t do anything to help most people get from home to work or wherever else they need to go. And the opportunity cost of these projects is we\u2019re not significantly investing in public transport and rapid transit in rail to help people get around our towns and cities and around our country without having to rely on a car. So this seems to directly contradict all the evidence and advice that the Government\u2019s been receiving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI was at a transportation conference yesterday. Minister, you gave a great speech there. All the experts at that conference were saying that, to respond to climate change, we need to completely reverse investment in infrastructure to actually make it easier for people to get around without having to rely on a car. That means that 90 percent of the new CAPEX investment should be going into alternatives, not to really marginal improvements to State highways already in urban areas, where we know it will actually just result in more traffic and more car dependence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m interested to know, Minister, how are we going to change the pipeline to one that\u2019s actually going to meet our requirements for a modern, efficient transportation system that reduces carbon emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022315034e70b8349bea415121828f92bea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022315034e70b8349bea415121828f92bea\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair\u2014just a couple of very quick comments and a couple of questions. The first is in relation to the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. The Minister now says that it\u2019s very prudent we sit back\u2014it\u2019s a very large project; $6.8 billion\u2014and we need to do baselining, which is, just as an aside, a verb that I hope does not catch on. I forget the precise grammatical term, or the syntactical term\u2014whatever it is when you turn a noun into a verb. The Public Service love it, but I hope it does not catch on. It\u2019s like \u201Clearnings\u201D\u2014anyway!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re doing some \u201Cbaselining\u201D. What I would like to know is why that was not done in the first place, and why the Minister did not heed the warnings of Treasury when putting together the New Zealand Upgrade Programme in the first place, because he was told by Treasury, and I\u2019ve seen the official advice to him that said, \u201CThere is a danger of cost overruns and we are worried that too much is being packed into the programme.\u201D Right at the very last minute, a single item, which is the Wellington rail upgrades, was added\u2014right at the very last minute\u2014which is, maybe, a $300 million programme, which took the package right up to the limit of $6.8 billion. And, actually, the Minister was told to allow some contingency inside the programme, and that was not done. So I want to know why that was not done. Because all of these problems were foreseeable. In fact, Treasury told him that these problems may come down the line, and it was totally foreseeable that here we are in May 2021 worried about cost overruns\u2014first point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESecond point is in relation to the Melling and the \u014Ctaki to North Levin projects. Will the Minister commit to at least $258 million being spent on the Melling Interchange programme, and will he commit to the project starting in 2022, as was promised throughout the entirety of 2020? Third question: will he commit to at least $817 million being spent on the \u014Ctaki to North Levin four-laning, which is one of the most dangerous sections of State highway in New Zealand? His own data shows that 135 deaths and serious injuries will be prevented over five years from the four-laning of that road. Will he commit to that project starting, as intended, in 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a178f3d1a24b718adfc5a2b5b98954\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a178f3d1a24b718adfc5a2b5b98954\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just respond to two quite different contributions from the members in the debate just there. The first was the Hon Julie Anne Genter, and I thank her for her ongoing consistency of advocacy around the importance of transitioning our transport system to be a carbon-neutral transport system. It is one of the biggest challenges that we face as we try and move towards a pathway of net zero by 2050. The facts that have been put in front of us by the independent climate commission are pretty stark. The transport sector produces 47 percent of New Zealand\u2019s carbon dioxide emissions and, regrettably, the trajectory in transport over the last 30 years has pretty much been the worst of any sectors. Emissions have increased by around about 90 percent when other sectors have had small increases or small decreases over that sector. That speaks to us having to really look at this sector in a very, very different way, and to some extend it goes to the debate that\u2019s been playing out in questions that I\u2019ve been fielding today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think what is enormously positive, in response to the member\u2019s question, is that, from 1 July this year, we have a new Government policy statement on transport which is coming into play. Of course, this debate relates to the 2019-20 review, but, of course, that was developed during that period\u2014and the member herself had a role in that\u2014and it puts front and centre that one of the objectives of Government policy in transport is to focus on reducing our emissions. So here we have a policy framework in which Waka Kotahi will be explicitly tasked with developing up a transport network that takes heed of that particular direction from the Government. So I think that\u2019s going to put us in a much better place than we have been in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe member asked about cost overruns in the sector, particularly in relation to roading projects. This has been an ongoing feature of our transport system over a number of years. The member is correct in identifying a number of recent roading projects that we have experienced that with. Transmission Gully is one. The roads of national significance programme was originally costed at around about $10 billion, and it cost $12.5 billion. These projects have a long history of that. We are particularly experiencing that pressure now, as are other parts of the infrastructure sector. Some of it\u2019s to do with increased costs to the sector because of the strong economic performance here in New Zealand but also, notably, in Australia, where often we\u2019re competing for labour, materials, and that kind of thing. Some of it is additional costs around property acquisition, which is an important part of many of these projects. Obviously, that very significant lift that we\u2019ve had in property costs\u2014particularly in metro areas\u2014in recent times has had an impact there as well, and that is something that we\u2019re looking into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut there is another part of it, and I go back to the member\u2019s very striking and appropriately sized graph. Yes, there is a significant roading spend there. Part of that is on new State highway build. A part of it, I assume, is the maintenance spend, which is mixed in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022addb8a5e072a41b2837bf0bbaf225681\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s just capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2bbf6706b6e453292ab1c4f7eb6dffe\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, that\u2019s just the new road. The same issue applies to the maintenance spend as well, and one of the things that we\u2019re experiencing there is that, actually, a lot of the good things that successive Governments have been building in\u2014higher environmental standards, better safety standards\u2014as well as the additional costs that we\u2019re experiencing mean that, effectively, every 100 metres that we\u2019re looking to build or maintain is costing us more. I think it is a real question for us, as Government and for the agency, and there\u2019s some work that we have planned there to be delving into that, because we need to manage the cost as well as we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe member noted on the graph that the relative rail investment there is small. Of course, we have recently produced the New Zealand Rail Plan, which, for the very, very first time, sets us on the path to having a 10-year, strategic view of what the kind of investment should be in rail to build a resilient and reliable network. So it\u2019s my expectation that, across the National Land Transport Fund and across Crown funding, we will see appropriate levels of investment going into rail. There\u2019s also the significant progress that has been made\u2014I note the member would like to see more\u2014in terms of a good uplift in terms of our walking and cycling infrastructure. Again, we\u2019re experiencing cost pressures there and, effectively, getting less delivered for the money that we might have thought three years ago. So that\u2019s an area that will be of continued focus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI can assure the member that I continue to work very closely with Waka Kotahi to ensure that we do have our funding applied that is within the funding bands for different categories. That is a mechanism that we have in place. We don\u2019t have a mechanism whereby the Minister or the Government of the day pinpoints a particular number. We identify a range in the Government policy statement, and I\u2019m very clear in my guidance to Waka Kotahi that they need to work with that, and I convey my sense of ambition in terms of active modes in public transport for them to be meeting those as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMr Bishop asked a range of questions around the New Zealand Upgrade Programme baselining process, and I do note that that baselining process itself does fall a little bit outside the annual review process that\u2019s in question, but I do like to be open and engaging, so I\u2019ll indulge him on this occasion. Again, I\u2019d just comment that I think this is an appropriate\u2014[Interruption] No, the baselining process has occurred in the first part of 2021; so it is outside the 2019-20 annual review period. I think that\u2019s just important to note, but I\u2019m answering the question anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think it is an appropriate process for us to work through the nature of these significant infrastructure projects\u2014not just these ones, but any\u2014which tends to be that the true costs aren\u2019t fully understood until significant design work is done, until geotechnical work is fully understood, and until matters of scope are carefully worked through with the professionals that we bring in and with the local communities that we work with. It\u2019s only once those matters have been worked through that we tend to get to really, really accurate figures around costs, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s unique to the New Zealand Upgrade Programme as well. Again, I\u2019ll point the member back to previous examples that we have had of these significant transport projects where we\u2019ve had those kinds of cost escalations; so I think a good baselining exercise helps us to get there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn terms of how we intend to move forward with that programme, again, I repeat my comment that the Government remains committed to really good transport outcomes for the communities that we have identified within the programme. We\u2019ve a lot of work that\u2019s under way. There will be further announcements in the very near future, but I think it is appropriate and prudent that we work through the baselining exercise with the agencies so that, when we\u2019ve done that, we can give absolute certainty to the communities that I know the member does want to see good transport outcomes for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do note that he was somewhat critical in his comments that those improvements to the Wellington rail network were included in the programme. I mean that, to me, was really important. It was about trying to have a more balanced portfolio of investments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a9747320db4e5ebf04fd4dd970caf8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I agree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222749502964ec4d63b96a64f5ffeb5560\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member didn\u2019t seem to be agreeing in his questioning. So we\u2019re moving forward with that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think what the member does also need to be aware of is that in the estimates that the Government received at the beginning, they were priced at P50; so they\u2019re reasonable estimates of cost that we were given as Government to inform that decision making. P50, for members who aren\u2019t so familiar, means that, on average, we could expect the costs to fall above or below a little bit about 50 percent of the time. That was a reasonable basis for the decision making that occurred there, but the baselining is what we now do to get a really clear appreciation of the costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00228e1c9e3b03054d7597d3cb9bac9a2b19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e1c9e3b03054d7597d3cb9bac9a2b19\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014thank you for giving me this call this afternoon\u2014and thank you, Minister, for coming to the Chamber today to answer some of the questions about this really, really important portfolio. We agree that there is a need for better public transport in New Zealand. Our road network is at capacity, or beyond capacity, in many towns and cities and in those vital connections between regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, this road network, which is managed by the transport agency Waka Kotahi, is already at capacity in Auckland. There are new suburbs in the north, the west, and the south of the city, which, unfortunately, despite having existing public transport services, like buses, are limited by two-lane road connections to new subdivisions built on land zoned for medium density and high density, and, yet, there are no new roading connections to these areas in the north, the north-west, the west, and the south of Auckland. Tradies, freight, and workers commuting from home to work, dropping the kids to school, are already suffering terrible delays\u2014sometimes an hour. An hour and 20 minutes, it took me to travel from West Auckland to Papakura on Friday afternoon, alone. What this tells us is that, despite the need for housing and our acknowledgment that we need to grow up as well as out, there is no current capacity for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you an example. A few years ago, when I was a civil engineer managing projects in Auckland, we could have banked on four to five round trips a day between the CBD and the quarries and other suppliers that we relied on for building materials, to get to our project sites. Most recently, my colleagues in the industry tell me they\u2019re banking on three loads a day, and sometimes only achieving two. So that is resulting in a huge loss of productivity to the manufacturing and the construction sector\u2014and that\u2019s above and beyond the congestion experienced by workers and families getting their kids to and from school and to and from places of work. It is definitely a priority to expand the existing transport network. That is why I would ask the Minister to consider delivering better public transport now\u2014delivering free-flowing networks now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo, when it comes to the light rail system that was put up under the previous Government, debated at length, and is now being brought back for consideration, with another steering group set up to develop a business case, can I ask the Minister to explain: what is the problem that the Government is trying to solve with light rail in Auckland? Is there a stronger or better case that light rail is actually a better option than increasing road capacity to free up roads from congestion and deliver better public transport through express buses and wheels on roads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc5bafa0041f4bda8e3ec47aa2066416\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc5bafa0041f4bda8e3ec47aa2066416\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to ask the Minister some questions about the second harbour crossing, in particular. Obviously, back in February, his colleague Minister Parker talked about, you know, it was a problem, the second crossing, it had to be fixed, but not for tomorrow. And then, obviously, the Minister received advice at the end of last year saying that further structural strengthening of the bridge isn\u2019t possible. So, I guess, the question is: what is the real state of that asset? How does he think about that? What is the pace and urgency around getting a second harbour crossing under? And, if there are restrictions going forward, what, fundamentally, would be the effects on our supply chain and how would we manage that going forward? So I\u2019m just interested in your views around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a couple of others on the second harbour crossing, if you\u2019d sooner I\u2019d do it all in one go for you? The second thing is really around\u2014so the first thing is around, sort of, urgency, priority of the asset, and strategic conditions\u2014the business case. I noted in the announcement that you made with Mayor Goff, around the $31 billion Auckland Transport Alignment Project (ATAP) investment, that there is money in there, but, essentially, I think it\u2019s about $80 million, from memory, just for business case and a bit of land acquisition. I guess the question also is that, you know, the business case has been in development, when you look at those ATAP documents, for the last two years, and how much longer do you think it will take to complete the business case for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EAnd, I guess, the third question I really wanted to ask around it was: I note, in that investment package that you announced with Mayor Goff, there still is, you know, the SkyPath project funded in there, I think, to the tune of $240 million sitting in ATAP. But it does make the comment, and we have had comments about its being beleaguered by technical problems and significant complex and engineering issues around that. So the question around SkyPath is: is it happening or not happening? And if it is happening, why is it so, when we\u2019ve got a bridge that\u2019s structurally challenged currently? Why would we persist with doing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo, really, questions around urgency, questions around the business case, and questions around SkyPath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0f4738d830c40fdb0fae643c2d2716b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0f4738d830c40fdb0fae643c2d2716b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks to both Mr Court and Mr Luxon for their questions. I do want to acknowledge Mr Court\u2014I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve ever had an ACT member stand up in the House and say, \u201CI want more public transport now.\u201D So, Mr Court, I salute you, and I agree with you on that front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ELook, this is a really important point, because, going to those questions around urban growth, the only way that we stop Auckland and our other significant, growing metro areas from choking on their own growth is through investment in high-quality, rapid public transport that moves large numbers of people around those metro areas quickly and efficiently. We simply cannot do it just by building roads, and for the member, who\u2019s an engineer, it\u2019s a question of spatial efficiency in areas in which there are significant constraints on the land that we have to use. There\u2019s no way you can build another motorway down the middle of the Auckland isthmus\u2014even if that didn\u2019t induce demand and make the problem worse, but imagine it didn\u2019t. We need to move large numbers of people very efficiently, very reliably, and very frequently, and that is the benefit that investment in high-quality rapid transit, of the kind that we\u2019re talking about in respect of light rail, delivers\u2014potentially, 300 to 400 people per unit every 10 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIf I can give the member a live example of the kind of difference that we\u2019re talking about between the spatial efficiency of the private motor vehicle and public transport, I had the pleasure last week of pressing the start button on \u201CDame Whina Cooper\u201D, the tunnel-boring machine that\u2019s creating the central rail link through the middle of Auckland. Now, that project, when it is completed, will bring the equivalent of 16 lanes of motor vehicle traffic in and out of the central city every single day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a967510cb74ac388ca890ed457d3f6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Great project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b6cf4098d224890abf5d6e7d8ec2288\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: It is a great project, and I\u2019m pleased that we have widespread agreement about that. But that just speaks to the massive efficiency benefits, the massive decongestion benefits, that we get out of serious investment in public transport. The truth is that over 50 years in Auckland and other metro areas, across a range of Governments, we haven\u2019t put the investment into those modes that we should\u2019ve, and that\u2019s why we face the challenges that we face today. So, for our Government, those ongoing improvements will happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut I would say to the member that it is happening now. A couple of weeks ago, I was very pleased to open up the improvements to State Highway 20B, which is creating a dedicated transit corridor for buses to travel between the Puhinui interchange on the southern rail line and Auckland Airport\u2014buses shuttling back and forth there, giving people a public transport option every 15 minutes or so. Next month, we\u2019ll be opening up that Puhinui interchange, which will bring together bus and train services in that part of South Auckland, with further investment in the Auckland Transport Alignment Project (ATAP) going into extending it out towards Mr Luxon\u2019s electorate out in Botany; we\u2019re starting to do the futureproofing for that work. Over the course of the last year, we\u2019ve opened at least one new station on the Northern Busway up at the Hibiscus Coast\u2014that was late last year\u2014to extend the benefits of the Northern Busway up to North Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo there is significant investment going into that public transport across Auckland. The Third Main line, a New Zealand upgrade project being delivered at this time\u2014employing 200 people, as I said. The key benefit of that is that it will give us the capacity, it\u2019ll free up that congested Southern Line, where, currently, commuter and freight trains are competing for this space. So that investment is going in now, and we\u2019re starting to see the benefits flowing through. The good news I\u2019ve got for Mr Court, and everyone, in fact, is when we put these investments in, people do use them: 50 percent of the journeys across the Auckland Harbour Bridge at peak are from people who use the Northern Busway, because it\u2019s a public transport service that moves people efficiently, and we\u2019re going to be building more of that under ATAP and in the years ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMoving on to Mr Luxon\u2019s questions, which primarily focused around the second harbour crossing and the state of the Auckland Harbour Bridge: look, the confidence that I want to give members\u2014and it\u2019s really, really important to say this, because I think that there was in some of the media and commentary a few months ago some statements made that might\u2019ve caused people in Auckland concern and alarm\u2014the Auckland Harbour Bridge, with appropriate maintenance, which we will always provide it with, is a very durable asset that has an almost limitless lifespan. So I just want to give people absolute assurance and confidence with that. There are few pieces of transport infrastructure in Auckland or New Zealand that are more strategic than that. I have made sure that I am well informed by Waka Kotahi about its current state, about its maintenance plans, and I\u2019ve received that assurance from the agency. So we continue to put real focus on making sure that there\u2019s an appropriate maintenance regime in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat we did hear from Waka Kotahi around the time of the annual review process is that the bridge has reached a point of its lifespan where it is difficult, effectively, to add additional weight to the structure. So we understand that, we work within that; we\u2019re able to maintain the asset within those parameters. It does, as Mr Luxon gets into, raise questions then in terms of what the options are for us in terms of creating a great walking and cycling connection across the Waitemat\u0101. This is a real priority for our Government. We have got an investment of over $300 million within the New Zealand Upgrade Programme there. We want to see Aucklanders with the ability to safely walk or cycle across the harbour in the middle of the city. I think it will be massive in terms of the mode shift, giving people the opportunities to get on their bike or walk to commute to work. It\u2019ll be a fantastic tourist asset as well. What I\u2019ve just outlined does create challenges in the previous plans that have been put forward in terms of attaching a structure to the bridge. So what we are doing now is working through the options in terms of what that means, what the other alternatives are to make sure that we create that connection for Aucklanders. Again, that\u2019s something that I hope to be able to speak to with a bit more specificity in the coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere were a couple of other questions from Mr Luxon in respect of the harbour crossing. We have got our money allocated in ATAP, as he pointed out. He asked about the business case process. So the indicative business case was released towards the end of last year. We\u2019re working closely with Auckland Council and Auckland Transport around that as well. It is my expectation that\u2014well, work is carrying on at the moment\u2014there\u2019ll be further development of that in the course of this year. The business case work identifies that, in the first instance, what we look to do is make interim improvements to the North Shore busway to increase capacity to support more people to get across the bridge quickly and efficiently, and that then, secondly, we look to build up the business case around a second crossing, which will be public transport focused. That, within ATAP, is scheduled as a project for the 2030s, and we think that is appropriate timing given the amount of work that needs to go into this and given our understanding about the flows of traffic and the way that we can manage the current asset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00222f121e5107d245d68b99db23da627dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f121e5107d245d68b99db23da627dd4\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Just very briefly, Mr Chair, I want to ask the Minister about his comments in relation to the baselining process, and in relation to the contingency. The information that I have received says that in the original $6.8 billion programme for the New Zealand upgrade, there was a $46 million only contingency\u2014I\u2019m referring to emails between the Ministry of Transport and Treasury here. I make it a $46 million contingency, and we\u2019ve got $6.8 billion in total. On 14 January, there\u2019s a \u201Cthe Minister has just asked for additional Wellington rail infrastructure package\u201D, so the contingency is \u201Cpretty much gone\u201D. And on 23 January, bearing in mind that the package was announced five days later, the attached shows that a further $47 million worth of projects have been added to the Canterbury package by Minister Twyford\u2019s office\u201D. The contingency across the package is now just $47 million. Why did the Government allow just $47 million in a $6.8 billion programme, and why are we now expected to believe\u2014why do we now think it\u2019s reasonable for us to tolerate a baselining process when the Government should have done that when they put the package together in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9ca638a115646fe984841ec7cda27a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9ca638a115646fe984841ec7cda27a6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The member simply speaks to the tensions and trade-offs that occur within any significant infrastructure package. I mean, the member, in his comments earlier, sort of went back and forth a bit in terms of the Wellington rail package, and he\u2019s confirmed that in fact he is in favour of it. That is something that is being delivered as a result of the New Zealand upgrade package. You face choices, within a large package like this, between what you allocate between projects, between what you allocate between contingencies, based on the information that you have at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs the member will be aware, while I\u2019m responsible for it, I wasn\u2019t the Minister at the time, so I\u2019m unable to give a detailed account of those discussions and how they played out at the time. But I stand by the fact that as a result of that package, we\u2019re delivering fantastic upgrades to the Wellington rail network, which is going to improve the commuter performance. I stand by the comment I made earlier that we remain committed to investment in all of those key routes to improve the transport outcomes for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00223045ae18d8b1404580ac4cd29fd7523d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223045ae18d8b1404580ac4cd29fd7523d\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E My question now is around ports, and particularly the Port of Auckland, because I think, irrespective of the global challenges we\u2019re seeing on the supply chain side around the world, there\u2019s no doubt that we\u2019ve got pretty significant issues at the Port of Auckland, and we\u2019re seeing it with respect to automation, projects not hitting capacity, and we\u2019ve got serious safety issues there. We\u2019ve got freight costs that are two to four times and now exporters/importers being hit with more uniform charges as they\u2019re containering from Tauranga to Auckland. And we\u2019ve obviously got ships anchored outside of ports, and that\u2019s manifesting itself where businesses are actually importing goods that they need for manufacturing, and they\u2019re having to carry a lot of inventory. Likewise, they hold a lot of finished stock inventory, and inventory is cash in a business, so it\u2019s impacting on cash flows really very strongly. It\u2019s also leading to the loss of some export customers for some businesses I\u2019ve been talking to as well, and I\u2019m sure the Minister has as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo, I guess, I have two questions. Can he tell us what\u2019s happening with the Port of Auckland, and where it\u2019s really going? And a broader question: what is the strategic view around ports and what programme of work does he have under way to think about a ports strategy across the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00227c41269fa84040a5a3a326bbbcd1e2c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c41269fa84040a5a3a326bbbcd1e2c4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Mr Luxon for those questions. New Zealand is experiencing some of the downstream effects of the economic dislocation created by COVID at the moment. Ports all around the world are experiencing significant disruption and delays. The most recent numbers I saw, which were, admittedly, about a month ago, showed that the index of port reliability in the Asia-Pacific region was at about 13 percent. In other words, vessels are arriving at port around the time we would expect them to about 13 percent of the time, and this has led to significant backlogs, shortages, and supply chain challenges all around the world, and we are obviously not immune to that. In fact, in some respects, we are more exposed to it than many other countries because of our geographical location.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re having to work through that, and I do want to acknowledge here the work the Ministry of Transport have been doing. They\u2019ve been playing a really critical role in trying to bring together ports and other players across the supply chain to make sure that information is being shared as much as possible, to make sure that we have as much alignment as possible, and to make sure that we look at the kind of mitigations that might be able to be put in place to smooth things over. We cannot fix that fundamental international problem in terms of choked-up international shipping lines, but we can try and make sure that people are working together as closely as possible here. That takes some work given that, at the moment, if you look across our supply chains, we have ports who are by statute required to act commercially and, in effect, be in competition with one another, and you have commercial relationships with other players in the supply chain. So it isn\u2019t necessarily an extant overarching strategy that requires them to work together from a sort of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D perspective around these things. But I think everyone\u2019s been working with as much good faith as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESome of things we\u2019ve done, for example, have been to work really closely with KiwiRail to make sure that they lift their capacity as much as possible. They\u2019ve recently upped further the service they\u2019re providing to the Port of Tauranga, for example, to get more of those containers moved off the docks at the Port of Tauranga. This does bring to light the broader issues around the supply chain. So our policy, as expressed at the last election, which I intend to move forward with, is to be developing a proper freight strategy for our country. I think the challenges we\u2019ve faced over the last year revealed that we need that. We need that particularly in the upper North Island, where there are a range of questions around ports and how the supply chain works together. But more broadly, we need to build up a supply chain that is more resilient than the one we have at the moment, and I\u2019m confident that piece of work will help us to get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022edf60e5d897b4adf9d90fb8d7e6a20b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edf60e5d897b4adf9d90fb8d7e6a20b9\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. It was agreed this theme would finish at 3.50 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00222dc06f3c27324eb88cee57a711ec1a3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dc06f3c27324eb88cee57a711ec1a3d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I was told 50 minutes, which is another five minutes. It\u2019s up to the members of the committee. If you no longer want to speak, then just stop speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022afe3ea181d15474396823179af3a4a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afe3ea181d15474396823179af3a4a8e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Very briefly, to the Minister, thank you for describing the utopia of public transport opportunities, initiatives, and what\u2019s been delivered in other parts of Auckland. The express busway to the North Shore\u2014as an engineer, many years ago, I was involved in delivering one of those stations, so I understand how important it has become to the people of the North Shore, how they\u2019ve come to grow to rely on it, but also that it is at capacity. Again, in South Auckland, the connection of Puhinui, from heavy rail to the airport, shows you what you can do when you take a flexible approach\u2014with a limited amount of budget and having some limited targets, how much functionality and what a great level of service you can offer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo it must be salt in the wounds for the people of the west of Auckland and the north-west, who still rely on roads last upgraded in the 1980s\u2014from Westgate in Auckland to K\u016Bmeu, Huapai, Helensville, where hundreds of thousands of people are scheduled to build homes and live\u2014and already sitting in heavily congested roads on weekdays and even weekends, where freight moving between industrial areas, commercial areas, and other parts of the country is held up for 20, 30, 40 additional minutes at peak time. There\u2019s also severe constraints on freight movement and people movement during the day. So my question to the Minister is\u2014firstly, thank you for what your Government, Auckland Transport, and previous Governments have delivered to Auckland. But the missing part is, what is going to be delivered for the people of the west and the north-west of Auckland, who feel short-changed? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b82cff2ac26f44b48be33498158ec947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b82cff2ac26f44b48be33498158ec947\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The member is correct in identifying the north-west as a significant growth area. Ministers, across portfolios, are working together closely to make sure that we\u2019re aligning our urban development, housing, transport strategy, and investments in the coming years to meet the change the member identifies, which, really, is a failure of planning over a good 20 years or so now. I can give the member some comfort: there is significant roading investment which is planned around Waimauku and Brigham Creek, which is currently working its way through the consenting process. But the long-term story has to be getting high quality public transport up to that part of the world. There is work that\u2019s under way there now to get interim busway improvements up to Westgate. That work is rolling out as part of our COVID response funding, and we\u2019ll make progress on that by next year. I want to see us looking as hard as we can to get progress as quickly as we can to be extending high-quality public transport outcomes up to the communities in K\u016Bmeu. That\u2019s something I\u2019ve been asking questions of Auckland Transport and Waka Kotahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e614d3a747a843fbb684bb79e3442ecc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e614d3a747a843fbb684bb79e3442ecc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to the debate on social services and employment, and I welcome the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to the chair. This will be led off by the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022862469a96c3a4245872c54ed120b4fe9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022862469a96c3a4245872c54ed120b4fe9\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s my pleasure as the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee to commence the debate for this portion of the annual review 2019/20. The Social Services and Community Committee covers a large range of areas: social development; social housing; income support; women, children, young people; the disability sector; seniors; Pacific peoples; ethnic communities; art, culture, and heritage; sports and recreation; broadcasting; and the voluntary sector. Our consideration was grouped into sectors, and reports we\u2019ve written combine most sectors. We invited and had participation by a large number of Ministers, creating a thorough review process. I want to thank the Ministers for their participation in the review process. Select committee scrutiny is a foundation of our democracy and the accountability of the executive. I also thank the Office of the Auditor-General; officials from the many ministries; our Parliamentary Service staff for organising these logistics and their report writing; and, finally, to all the members who make up our select committee, and those members who sub on also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThis debate will cover the subject of social development and employment with the Minister, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni. As part of Budget 2019, we heard that the Government invested $1.3 billion into the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) over four years, having built on the $5.5 billion Families Package. There are approximately 8,000 staff at the MSD, who, in a typical year, provide direct support to between 1 million to 1.5 million New Zealanders and their families. There are approximately 180 offices across New Zealand. We heard main benefits are now indexed to average wage growth, abatement settings were changed, and section 192 of the Social Security Act was repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThe Minister told us about the investment into front-line staff and their strong focus on moving people into employment. The ministry spoke about the expansion of work for the staff, due to COVID-19 hardship, to support businesses and workers. Support included rolling out the wage subsidy to protect 1.7 million jobs or incomes; the increased income support package of $2.8 billion, including a $25 increase in base benefits; double winter warmth payment and broadened eligibility for in-work tax credits; removal of stand-down periods; funding in-home childcare for essential workers; an increase in special needs grants; and $27 million for community social services to respond to COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWe asked about feedback from employers and about investigations regarding wage subsidies. We heard about changes implemented as a result of this feedback. COVID-19 impacts on employment were a focus, but we were also interested in jobseeker support\u2014actual and projected numbers, plus exits; Flexi-wage, including delays to the extension of this programme; He Poutama Rangitahi, He Poutama Taitamariki, support for work, Mana in Mahi programmes\u2014and those numbers were canvassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESupport for victims and perpetrators of family and sexual violence and the appropriation for community support services\u2014we heard and asked about the Minister\u2019s Wh\u0101nau Resilience programme. We sought an update on progress on the recommendation of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group. The Auditor-General was satisfied that the information audited fairly represented the ministry\u2019s activities. However, a non-standard audit report was issued due to the effect of COVID-19. The overall assessment remains unchanged and good. Thank you, Mr Chair, we look forward to hearing from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6da8d3120fb4067ba2c222be4386390\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6da8d3120fb4067ba2c222be4386390\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E [Uses sign language] Good afternoon. It\u2019s New Zealand Sign Language Week. Can I just start by saying that I won\u2019t speak for long because I do respect the fact that many people in the Chamber will have questions. But I do just want to start with a few opening remarks, and that is that there was significant investment at Budget 2019, 2020, where we invested in some really important things. We indexed benefits to wages, we changed the abatement settings, and we also removed section 192 of the Social Security Act so that sole parents who were unable to name the other parent of the child would not be penalised any further. Those are significant changes in themselves, but, on top of that, we all know that last year we were hit by COVID. My opening statement is just to recognise the work of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) over the course of that year. The programme that we had in front of us before COVID hit was already immense, but the MSD staff showed their agility and their ability to be able to respond effectively to New Zealanders during a crisis, and for that I am very proud. I\u2019ll stop there and I\u2019ll take questions from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef38f104c43842a596a9caa1feba4f62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef38f104c43842a596a9caa1feba4f62\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got a series of questions and I want to start, first of all, with benefit statistics and numbers, but, actually, recognising that for every one of these numbers there is a person, a family, who are struggling to get by, and if they want to be in work and aren\u2019t, it is particularly challenging for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo if we look at the time in question, compared back to 2017, we\u2019ve seen job seeker numbers increasing steadily each year, now peaking at just under 200,000. One of the questions to the Minister is: why is she saying that if the unemployment rate is the same as it was four years ago, at 4.7 percent, are there 75,000 more people on job seeker benefit? That is my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe second question is probably the one that concerns me more, though, the fact that there are, again, compared to September 2017, 50,000 more people on job seeker who have been there for more than 12 months. So I want to know why that is. I want to know what has been done by the Ministry of Social Development to mitigate the harm from long-term welfare dependency. As I say, that\u2019s 50,000\u2014it\u2019s a big number\u2014but, actually, for every one of those numbers, there is an individual or a family that is doing it tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a series of questions on hardship, so I\u2019ll start there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00228833d4161e1c4c28b967a93d93642fd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228833d4161e1c4c28b967a93d93642fd3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll start with the benefit numbers and, also, the unemployment rate. I think it is important to note that the unemployment rate that we currently have is 4.7 percent, but when we were first hit with COVID, Treasury was forecasting that we would experience an 8 percent unemployment rate, and some economists outside of Treasury were predicting up to 10 percent. I think that it is an amazing achievement for us, as a country, that we have managed to keep our unemployment rate as low as it is, despite being hit with a pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith regards to actual benefit numbers, at its worst, in terms of forecasts for what the benefit numbers would be, we were initially told we could experience benefit numbers of 490,000 New Zealanders. That, as you can imagine, scared all of us, and, I think, was something that was quite frightening for the whole country. We haven\u2019t got there. At the peak so far, we, I think, in January, reached about 390,000. And now, the most recent stats that I\u2019ve seen had us at about 360,000. Now, does that mean that we are in any way relaxed about the fact that we still have New Zealanders on benefit? No, not at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EBut I do want to reflect back and say that one of the things that I came across when I was made the Minister for Social Development and Employment was that, actually, what we had seen over the course of a period of years was the decline in front-line work-focused case management. So much of the front-line focus had shifted towards hardship\u2014this is prior to us getting into Government\u2014and the levels of staffing had not increased, which meant that there was a decline in focus on work focus for the clients that were coming to the Ministry for Social Development (MSD). So one of the measures that we did put in place in 2019 was an increase in front-line work-focused case managers. We saw that begin to pay off immediately. We announced that. That came into place almost straight away. In July 2019, we started to see an increase in exits off benefit into employment, and that has continued. It is not just MSD, but I will acknowledge the staff that have been working at the front line. In the last quarter we\u2019ve actually seen the most number of exits off benefit into employment than what we have seen since 1996, when electronic records started to be kept\u2014so, again, a pretty amazing achievement, given that we are still in the midst of a global pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe member asked how I reconcile a 4.7 percent unemployment rate with 360,000 people on benefit. And, as she rightly pointed out, that is more than what were on benefit in 2017\u2014much of it due to, as I\u2019ve already said, the pandemic. We do need to keep in mind that the unemployment rate is measured by the household labour force survey, and benefit numbers are benefit numbers\u2014they are an indication of who are on benefit. So sometimes they do seem out of sync. The thing that I take great heart in is that we saw a reduction in the unemployment rate through the household labour force survey, down to 4.7 percent, as well as seeing, over the same period, a reduction in the number of people that were on benefit. We always say and continue to think that there is definitely more to do in this space, but I do recognise that, you know, we are actually doing a relatively good job in supporting people into employment, alongside supporting a large number of New Zealanders into upskilling and training opportunities, into workforces where there is meaningful and sustainable employment, and where, actually, they have the potential to earn relatively good money compared to, perhaps, some of the work that they might have been doing prior to getting the upskilling and training that we have on offer now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b40213aed39848b8b3383f1ebac2c30b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b40213aed39848b8b3383f1ebac2c30b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a privilege to stand here today to put some questions for the Minister on issues around our welfare system and particularly the interface that our homeless community faces with Work and Income. For the majority of the period that we\u2019re reviewing, I was not a member of Parliament. I was actually at the phone lines working with our homeless community and people on the benefit, helping them access their entitlements at Work and Income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOne of the policies that I\u2019m seeking some comment and answers on is the decision to charge our people in emergency housing 25 percent of their weekly income. I have been really concerned about the decision on this, seeing as I agree with the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s advice around some of the disadvantages of this policy, which risks creating significant hardship on people, and the fact that no evidence has been able to be provided on the fact that not charging 25 percent of people\u2019s income may actually incentivise our homeless community to stay in emergency housing. I don\u2019t believe anyone wants to be in a motel, wants to be in emergency housing, and the people who do have to be in emergency housing, they don\u2019t do it because they want to or they don\u2019t do it because it\u2019s an easy option. They do it because they don\u2019t have access to a home to live in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo my question is around the decision, and particularly around evidence that the Minister had when making this decision that people were actually staying in emergency housing because it was free of cost, and whether the Minister considers that this system of charging 25 percent of people\u2019s income, who stay in emergency accommodation, ultimately results in a sort of weird, vicious cycle where people are having to go back to Work and Income to get a hardship grant due to this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis sort of hardship could be just avoided by supporting people on the housing waiting list, by supporting them to find alternative accommodation, if that\u2019s what they need, without creating the hardship that this policy has created. I\u2019m interested in the evidence and the rationale behind the decision made by the Minister that this was creating a perverse incentive for people to stay in a motel when the people who are there didn\u2019t cause the housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf94059ae354995b6ce2aeba121dac7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf94059ae354995b6ce2aeba121dac7\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member for the question, and I acknowledge the work that that member was doing prior to becoming a member of Parliament. We did make the announcement about the co-payment for people that are in emergency accommodation, I think, quite early on last year. I think the intention was actually to bring it into force around mid-year, but because of COVID and the fact that we had quite a lot as an agency going on, that was delayed until November. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThat decision came about from conversations mostly with community housing providers, as well as insights from Ministry of Social Development (MSD) staff who were working at the front line with housing, but mostly from the community housing providers themselves, who told us that they were seeing a reluctance in some situations for people to move from emergency housing into transitional or into public housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ERecognising that with transitional housing and public housing, there was an expectation that people will pay 25 percent of their income towards the accommodation that they are in, then we thought, with those insights that were given to us and the fact that that is the expectation for transitional and for public housing, that for fairness, for consistency, and in light of what we were told, it made sense to introduce the co-payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ETwenty-five percent, I recognise, for people that are on low incomes, is still money out of their weekly income, and I recognise there are some still that need to access hardship payments in some instances for a number of reasons. Sometimes it\u2019s because of debt. It\u2019s a range of different reasons. MSD is still able to provide hardship payments in those situations and still does. So I understand that that member doesn\u2019t support the decision that we made as a Government, but, as Minister, I stand by that decision and there is no intention to change that policy decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227229e5773262433c946f620244e1e63a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227229e5773262433c946f620244e1e63a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to go back to one of the questions I asked previously that I didn\u2019t get an answer to, and that was the 50,000 additional people on job seeker who have been there for more than 12 months. As we know, the evidence tell us that the longer you\u2019re out of work the harder it is to reconnect. So I do want an answer on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested in why the Minister thinks, with the number that exited into work this quarter, that\u2019s good news when 50 percent more than that\u2014so 46,000 instead of 32,000\u2014actually were new benefit grants. So it\u2019s actually not going in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of comments that she made around the work-focused case management, I\u2019d like to know from the Minister how much time is being spent by front-line staff on managing hardship requests versus active employment support; how many employment engagements each job seeker is now receiving; and, with initiatives like the shovel-ready jobs, where the Government has a focus on creating jobs\u2014they come in at about $220,000 per job\u2014what the Minister believes is the best value for money spending on employment initiatives, and why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022de75bca8918e4f9baf7aa4bf317d126b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de75bca8918e4f9baf7aa4bf317d126b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I think there were about six questions in there, so, if the member can forgive me if I didn\u2019t capture all of them, I will attempt to answer them and then, if I\u2019ve missed anything, she\u2019s absolutely able to stand and re-ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EPeople on benefit for more than 12 months: I guess, again, reflecting on the past year\u2014and it has been over a year now since we were first hit with the pandemic\u2014we have been in a period where the labour market has been tighter than what we would have anticipated, although I think that the size to date, in terms of vacancies that are being advertised for jobs, is very heartening. I think, at Seek, they\u2019ve had a 22 percent increase last month, and TradeMe was a 50 percent increase\u2014or it could be the other way round. But, regardless, it shows that there is business confidence and that businesses are actually doing much better than anticipated. I will reflect back and just say that I think the wage subsidy had a lot to do with that, given that it supported around 1.8 million jobs and meant that so many businesses were able to continue with that support. So many New Zealanders were able to continue to get paid despite the fact that they couldn\u2019t work, and didn\u2019t end up coming back on benefit. So I think the pandemic may have a role to play given that the labour market over the course of the last year hasn\u2019t necessarily been as strong as what we would have hoped pre-pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAlso, in terms of shovel-ready projects, I will say that there is no doubt that they have had a role to play with respect to the number of jobs that are available to New Zealanders. We\u2019ve seen a large number of New Zealanders pivot away from areas where there was a reduction in employment opportunities\u2014whether that be tourism, retail, hospitality\u2014towards other industries, particularly in construction. And I think, just looking at the Apprenticeship Boost scheme that we started, already 21,000 apprentice accounts have been created, which stands us in good stead moving forward in an area where we had workforce shortages prior to COVID, and in an area, actually, that, when we were going through the global financial crisis, there was a lack of investment. Hence why we ended up with the workforce shortages that we did. We are focused on trying to support New Zealanders into sustainable employment, and so, when we talk about New Zealanders who find themselves on benefit, it is about supporting them into employment but also supporting them into upskilling and training if that is the better option for them and they do need to pivot into areas where there are more jobs available. So I don\u2019t resile from the fact that that\u2019s a good idea, and, actually, I think that\u2019s paying off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe member also mentioned numbers around those who have come off benefit and gone into work versus those that have gone on benefit. We need to keep in mind that I\u2019m only talking about the numbers of New Zealanders who have gone off benefit into employment. A large number of New Zealanders actually exit benefit for other reasons, whether it\u2019s that their relationship status changes or some other life context changes for them where they no longer need a benefit or are no longer eligible for a benefit. So, on top of the 30,000-plus exits that we saw in the last quarter, there were also thousands of New Zealanders who would have exited benefit for other reasons. So we need to keep that in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ETo just respond to the point that the member is trying to make, though, which is that she\u2019s trying to say that the number of people exiting benefit is less than those that have come on, well, that doesn\u2019t ring true when you look at the overall numbers, which were, in January, 390,000 and now sit at 360,000. So we have seen an actual reduction of New Zealanders on benefit, and the majority of those have exited off benefit because of employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022007adc821e8448a2bde9d62063165c84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022007adc821e8448a2bde9d62063165c84\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to come back to the question I asked about value for money on employment initiatives, and I want to know if the Minister thinks that $220,000 for a shovel-ready job is good value for money; and, if not, what is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI also want to know, around employment initiatives\u2014Government initiatives\u2014and taxpayer spending, how many jobs will be created, have been created; and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00227f82fe2324164ee9b748329e56966d33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f82fe2324164ee9b748329e56966d33\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The premise of the member\u2019s question around $220,000 for a shovel-ready job I would question. So I don\u2019t quite know how to respond to that, given that I\u2019m not quite sure where that figure comes from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith regards to the employment initiatives that we have in place, the vast majority of what the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) does is they create the supports. We put the supports in place so that we can support New Zealanders into employment. Alongside that, we form the industry partnerships with different sectors to ensure that where there is an opportunity for job creation, those industries and sectors are supported by MSD\u2019s products and also, then, workforce\u2014because of the clients we have that want to go into work\u2014to be able to fill the positions when those opportunities are created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo MSD is not necessarily about creating the jobs. They are about working with people so that they are work-ready, so they have the skills, so they get access to the training, and so they get access in some instances to things like licences, whether that be a licence so they can get to work, a forklift licence so they can drive a forklift, or a truck licence, in some instances. So it\u2019s about supporting people to be work-ready, to take up the positions that are there. It\u2019s not about MSD creating the jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea36229879f449bfb3355a5ba17c596f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea36229879f449bfb3355a5ba17c596f\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. So I just want to ask a follow-up question to my one on emergency housing and the evidence\u2014or, I guess, anecdotal commentary by transitional housing providers\u2014to justify charging our people who are homeless. I just wanted to ask what feedback was given by transitional housing providers in the context of the fact that Work and Income already puts obligations on our people who are homeless to\u2014each time they want to roll over emergency housing, they have to provide evidence that they\u2019re looking for alternative accommodation, and people in emergency housing don\u2019t have any sort of rights or tenure in general. It\u2019s a very precarious place. So, you know, I would even say that calling it \u201Cemergency housing\u201D is not fully accurate, seeing as people don\u2019t have security. So this idea that we\u2019re bringing emergency housing in line with transitional housing by adding a cost makes no sense when the conditions are so different. The Ministry of Social Development in the annual review acknowledge that they don\u2019t proactively verify the suitability of emergency housing; only when a beneficiary has sort of said that there\u2019s concerns, maybe they\u2019ll go back and check. So I guess I\u2019m interested in the evidence provided by transitional housing providers that this policy is justified and is not simply putting our homeless people into more hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a54e861c2e324bb3864f3345c6ea1f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a54e861c2e324bb3864f3345c6ea1f26\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I think it\u2019s very fair to say that no one in this House wants to see anyone in emergency accommodation. The fact that we don\u2019t have the secure, stable housing for New Zealanders that we need at the moment is a reality, given that there\u2019s been an under-investment in housing for generations. So we are in the unenviable position of needing to put people into emergency accommodation, and, perhaps, rather than calling it \u201Cemergency housing\u201D, we should just call it \u201Cemergency accommodation\u201D. So I take that point from the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs I said, these were conversations that were held. It was feedback from the community sector. They themselves were seeing that at some points it was hard to move people from emergency accommodation into transitional public because of this step up from having to pay nothing to then having to pay 25 percent. So it was about being able to support people to move through into more stable accommodation, but also consistency. There is work under way in the emergency housing space that the Minister of homelessness is also involved in. You know, the reality for front-line Ministry of Social Development staff is that it\u2019s not always easy to access emergency housing options, but recognising that where we come across emergency accommodation\u2014sorry, options that are not fit for purpose or deemed by the clients to be unsafe, then we should stop using them. I\u2019ve made that very clear and we\u2019ve actually moved in that direction, and, also, we\u2019ll move in that direction in other parts of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat I will say about Rotorua is that they are different to many parts of the country in that they have many options with regards to motel accommodation, so that shift can occur. In other places, they don\u2019t necessarily have emergency accommodation options or they only have limited emergency accommodation options. So do we need to continue to look at how we can do this better? Yes, but the ideal is that we get to the point where we actually have enough stable and secure housing for New Zealanders, which is why, as a Government, we have committed to building 18,400 new places within four years, and we\u2019re on track to deliver on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022dde50504f39441e9b2d0262c6499ef04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dde50504f39441e9b2d0262c6499ef04\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to pick up where the Minister in the chair, Carmel Sepuloni, just left off, with her 18,000 houses in four years\u2019 time, and just look at some of the numbers in terms of the 350,000 households at the end of June last year\u2014it\u2019ll be a lot more than that who were being supported by the accommodation supplement\u2014now the 23,000, on the social housing register. Before we talk about those in the worst circumstances, the 8,500 in motels, of which 4,000 are children\u2014that\u2019s clearly a gap. I want to know, given that emergency housing special needs grants\u2014the eligibility was extended from seven days, because the original intention was that they were used for severe cases for up to seven days. That\u2019s been extended to three weeks. How many people are now staying beyond the three weeks they are eligible for? The longest, when I asked at the annual review, was two years. I want to know what it is now, and I want to know how many properties, how many motels, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) have stopped using because they are substandard, and what steps MSD is taking so that more families and more children are being prevented from the harm they are exposed to each and every day they stay in these places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00227d6d56ba8ccd46aba5e5a0513f248021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d6d56ba8ccd46aba5e5a0513f248021\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E There were a lot of questions in there from that member, and I know that we\u2019re running out of time, but I will do my best. With regards to those that are in emergency accommodation, the support that is in place, we did move to actually instigate a few different roles so that we can support people better that are in emergency accommodation, navigators being one. Many of the people that are in emergency accommodation need support to access a range of services. It may be out of the scope of what MSD is able to provide, whether that be mental health support, whether that be family violence support, whether that be some other type of health support. So the navigator positions that we instigated and funded are our honest attempt to be able to provide the wraparound support that people need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith regards to the length of time that people are in emergency accommodation, the majority of people are out within six months. We did extend the grant from one week to three weeks, and that was due to the fact that it was putting undue pressure on families to try and source accommodation in some instances where it was very difficult to source accommodation, because of the lack of supply but also, in some instances, because there are other barriers to them being able to get into more stable and secure accommodation\u2014private rentals, perhaps\u2014things like credit, things like\u2014particularly that, but other things as well that might be a barrier to them being able to get into long-term accommodation. So it made sense to extend it to three weeks so that at least these families and individuals that were in emergency accommodation had time to be able to actually sort out the other things that might be happening in their lives, as well as look fairly and reasonably for accommodation that might be available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are some outliers that are in emergency accommodation for longer than the six months or less that I said earlier. Usually, those are very complex cases. Those cases existed under the previous National Government as well. Sometimes, it is hard to house people that perhaps have mental health issues, perhaps have drug and addiction problems or other sorts of complex challenges that make it hard to get them into longer-term accommodation. I want to make it clear that not everyone that\u2019s in emergency accommodation has those same challenges. There are some people who have just, for whatever reason\u2014they may have lost their private market rental because it\u2019s been sold and then have actively been looking for accommodation and not been able to find it, and so, therefore, they end up in MSD looking for emergency accommodation for an interim period until they are able to find it. So there are a range of complex cases that we\u2019re dealing with in emergency accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EBut the point that I want to end with is that no one wants to see people in emergency accommodation, but until we are able to meet the demand with respect to housing\u2014and we are on track to deliver on our commitment to housing that we set out\u2014people do need to have some sort of accommodation. The reality for us is that we would much rather see people in emergency accommodation, in the likes of motels, than we would want to see them on the streets or living in their cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8424e24839a4c8ab377e7700fbdb71d\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8f92d7de8ee41f284bde73da29addd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8f92d7de8ee41f284bde73da29addd6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Time is up for this part of the debate, Hon Louise Upston. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022832bffb69544434c89c74d7da0f884ef\u0022\u003EEconomic and Regional Development and Tourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a23c8be1c66644949600b0df14c591c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a23c8be1c66644949600b0df14c591c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: We move now to economic and regional development and tourism, and I call on the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc8ac97485da4d00934656df8829a2cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc8ac97485da4d00934656df8829a2cf\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Chairperson of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to make a contribution in this debate as the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the other members of the committee from both sides of the House and I look forward to the contributions over the next 30 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIn my speech here today, I\u2019m going to give a little bit of a summary in terms of what we heard as a committee, in terms of the economic development, regional development, and tourism areas. I\u2019ll split my speech into two parts. I\u2019ll first talk about the economic development and regional development, and then I\u2019ll move on to the tourism aspect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Provincial Growth Fund around the $3 billion that has been invested in the regions of New Zealand. The focus of this fund has been around job creation. And when I say the \u201Cregions of New Zealand\u201D, it excludes Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch. But for any other region this fund has been has been available and we\u2019ve seen proposals come to the Provincial Growth Fund or the Provincial Development Unit, which is the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment unit from a range of regions around New Zealand. A diverse range of proposals and investments have been made. We heard that these investments have been well received by people living in those regional areas. Like I said before, the key aspect is around job creation, and we have seen a number of jobs created in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EOn the regional development aspect, we also heard from Crown Infrastructure Partners and particularly we heard in terms of the response to COVID-19, the Infrastructure Reference Group, often called IRG. Now, this group was set up to distribute a $3 billion fund\u2014actually, not to distribute, but basically to call for submissions for this $3 billion fund, and they received 1,924 proposals. Now, that was a total of around $30 billion, which was more than was allocated, so they worked hard to bring those proposals down to a smaller number of projects, around 150 projects, which the Crown Infrastructure Partners then submitted to Ministers, and Ministers decided on some projects which were construction ready. They were often called shovel-ready. And those projects were funded. Again, this has really helped with our recovery from COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022830b1f7807d24095a79600449ffc8c6e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3a1a3f79834627844eab9ef32b9b31\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just giving an overview, like I said, as the chair of the committee, but I will have a question; I appreciate your interest. So, just to summarise those two aspects, the Provincial Growth Fund and the Crown Infrastructure Partners have made significant investments into the regions of New Zealand, and that has helped a lot with our recovery from COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe second aspect, before I move into my question, is around the tourism sector. Now, we heard that COVID-19 has had a huge negative impact on the tourism sector. It\u2019s been well canvassed. It wasn\u2019t news to anyone in the committee. The reality is when you close the borders to international tourists, it\u2019s going to have a huge impact, and I acknowledge some of the members in the House here today who are members in regions where they\u2019ve particularly been hit hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EBasically what Tourism New Zealand did was they pivoted to a campaign called \u201CDo something, New Zealand\u201D. That campaign was based around encouraging New Zealanders to basically be tourists in their own country. Now, this campaign was very successful and the reality is that with the borders closed, there was around $8 billion that\u2019s normally spent overseas by New Zealanders travelling as tourists overseas that was available to be spent here in New Zealand. And that made a significant impact on tourism operators in New Zealand. I do acknowledge that operators which were completely reliant on overseas tourism weren\u2019t able to pivot certainly had a challenging time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI certainly could go on, but I\u2019ll ask a question of the Minister. So my question is around the tourism sector. My question to the Minister is: how has the Government supported the tourism sector over the past year and what work is it now progressing to promote sustainable tourism into the future? Certainly COVID-19 has given an opportunity for something of a reset around sustainable tourism. So I\u2019ll leave that with the Minister, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022a752ec52c0e94dd9bbc52abc5bcfbc77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a752ec52c0e94dd9bbc52abc5bcfbc77\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you very much, chair of the select committee, Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne thing I will say is that when the Prime Minister talks about the team of 5 million, how we\u2019ve done so well, I absolutely acknowledge that there are some members of that team that have done it a lot harder than others\u2014a number of those members of the tourism sector and the hospitality sector. We recognised this very early on, and one of the first things we did is we got a $400 million package out to the sector in order to protect our strategic businesses and the businesses that we thought were pivotal to our international brand and the ones that we wanted to really come back strong when the borders open. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe main fund around that was the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme. A lot of money went out there, but there are others as well. Our regional tourist organisations\u2014these are the organisations embedded in our regions across the country that do a fantastic job of actually marketing our regions to the rest of the country. As the chair of the select committee highlighted, Tourism New Zealand came up with this fantastic\u2014they pivoted, because Tourism New Zealand are actually our global tourist marketers. They\u2019re the ones that go out there and promote the brand and get tourists to come into our country. They don\u2019t have a domestic focus. But what we did is we actually changed the rules, which we had to do, and gave them a domestic focus and funded them to do so. They came up with this fantastic programme, which was \u201CDo something new, New Zealand.\u201D And we all did. I mean, I went down to the West Coast. I hope a whole lot of people went to Hawke\u2019s Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere were actually some regions\u2014Northland, actually, is a classic case. Northland actually did better\u2014fantastic region that it is\u2014last year, if you look at the data, than it did pre-COVID. The reason for that is, well, a couple of things that we recognise is that if it\u2019s in three hours\u2019 drive, Kiwis visit there. Hanmer Springs did incredibly well. Stewart Island did brilliantly. I mean, you talk pre-COVID, how many people went to Stewart Island? Not that many at all. Now everyone knows someone who went down to Stewart Island. And if you didn\u2019t get down to Stewart Island, it might have been because you couldn\u2019t get a room at any of the hotels and the backpackers down there. So it worked really, really well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut we do acknowledge that the amount of domestic spend did not make up for the loss of international spend. And in Queenstown, for example, in January the domestic spend was 71 percent higher in January this year than it was in January 2000. But due to a lack of international tourists, the overall spend actually dropped by 34 percent. So we recognise that and it\u2019s one of the reasons why we\u2019ve gone very hard to support Queenstown businesses. That was evident in the package we put out under the $400 million package and also the second $200 million package. A lot of that money has gone to places like Queenstown. And certainly Queenstown has been a major benefactor, because we recognised that they had done it hard, but we needed them to survive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe thing about the trans-Tasman bubble is that we are well aware that it will make a difference. Australian tourists are about 40 percent of New Zealand\u2019s tourists pre-COVID. We always understood that in the first two weeks it would be a lot about people coming over to visit friends and relatives. And we also understood that in the first sort of two weeks, two or three, four weeks, it was always going to be tourists or visitors at a slightly higher risk profile, because we weren\u2019t too sure how this was going to play out if there was a lockdown in either New Zealand or one of the Australian states. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut where this will go really well is if we have a good ski season. So talking to the people of Queenstown\u2014and I\u2019ve been down there four times since I\u2019ve been Minister\u2014it\u2019s looking good, already, isn\u2019t it, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d2f4ede99a49e4ad6cfe79b55de7e9\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: They have no staff!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc791a8504a4efcb7bddfc66e48e9dc\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: They had snow there. They had snow there in May. OK, it\u2019s disappeared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b607480ecf8445b6849bc31e4fb82550\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: No staff, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d39051fbac54fe59691aa92520cd674\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s a really good point. There\u2019s no staff. So what happened is the Minister of Immigration and I went down\u2014well, I went down. I worked with the Minister of Immigration, and we worked really hard with them to change some of the visa settings there to make sure we could maximise and optimise the opportunity for our international visa holders to actually work in the industry, and ensure that it could be as good as it possibly could be. And as I\u2019ve said, the trans-Tasman bubble\u2014I mean, it\u2019s not going to take revenues back to where they were pre-COVID. We know that. But the thing it will do is it will be the difference for some businesses between surviving and not. We\u2019re expecting a great ski season down there. It\u2019s looking good already. So Kiwis\u2014we still go down there. This is not an invitation for Kiwis not to go. We still want you to visit all these places. But what we do recognise is that the trans-Tasman bubble will make a really big difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a number of other things we\u2019re doing in the tourism sector to really change the settings for tourism, I suppose. But this is all about rebuilding. It\u2019s a plan for the future. We delivered part of that plan on Thursday. When I say \u201Cwe\u201D; the Government did. But it\u2019s about rebuilding our economy, rebuilding our tourism businesses, so when those international borders reopen, the tourism sector is able to deliver on the promises we make to global visitors when they come over. It\u2019s a really exciting time, actually, and I\u2019m looking forward to it. But I just want to reiterate that I do understand that during COVID a number of operators did it really hard, and I acknowledge their hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00228b2827936ed845b88f020e152e56cd46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b2827936ed845b88f020e152e56cd46\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. The Minister started out by talking about the funding announced by the Government last year: the $400 million, and particularly the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme (STAPP) funding. He said, and I think I can quote, \u201CWe picked the businesses that we wanted to get through, those we needed still to be there.\u201D Minister, if that was the case, why is the Auditor-General looking into the decision-making process at the very beginning of the STAPP and, particularly, companies who were given money but didn\u2019t actually formally apply for it? They were given money before others could apply because the criteria hadn\u2019t been set and the fund hadn\u2019t been opened. What do you say to the companies that have had to go and get a lawyer because they believe they weren\u2019t treated fairly, some of whom applied and didn\u2019t get money and others who had greater capacity to survive, to pay things for themselves, who did get funding\u2014what do you say to those businesses and why is the Auditor-General looking into the Government\u2019s decision-making process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00221598d4e6cb3a4a6abb23c011589d34e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221598d4e6cb3a4a6abb23c011589d34e2\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is a good question. The thing is that we\u2019ve said, with regard to the whole COVID response, that we\u2019ve never been here before. There was no sort of game plan or road map for how to keep businesses alive, keep tourism alive, in the face of a global pandemic when we\u2019ve had to close down our borders, and we recognise that there were some really tough decisions made. But with regard to the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme (STAPP) funds, there was a recognition that, in fact, what we needed to do was just get money out the door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENow, I fully acknowledge that the Auditor-General is taking a look at this. We\u2019ll wait and see what the report shows, but one thing I will say is it was a no-regrets policy. We needed to get that money out the door to ensure that those businesses were able to make key decisions in a really quick moment of time, because a number of businesses\u2014and I can think of one really big corporate who just, basically, closed down all their businesses there and then and said, \u201CWe\u2019re closing. We want to see what the situation looks like when the dust settles, so to speak.\u201D Then what this entity has done is slowly open the businesses as tourism has come back and as they better assessed their situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat we did do, and what I did announce on Thursday, is that the industry training organisations\u2014these are the inbound tour operators. These are the men and women who have the critically important relationships with our international offshore tourist operators and travel agents. We recognised that these were critically important if we were to grow our tourism industry back as soon as we possibly could when the borders open. They had been given $26 million in STAPP loans. We converted that through to grants in recognition that, in fact, the job they were doing was critically important. But it was about getting money out the door and doing this with a no-regrets policy. And in anything you do, you\u2019ve got to draw the line somewhere. What happened, my understanding\u2014and I wasn\u2019t the Minister of Tourism at the time\u2014is that firms were asked to apply for this and they did. There was a ranking criteria. If you\u2019re above that, then you were considered. If you were below that, you weren\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut, as mentioned, I probably shouldn\u2019t mention too much more about STAPPs, even though I acknowledge that I did bring it up in my speech, because the Auditor-General is looking at that programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b01952f72b324bc69bcb8fec6d932cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b01952f72b324bc69bcb8fec6d932cb4\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The big $400 million investment in the tourism sector has been the biggest investment by any Government ever. The Tourism Futures Taskforce has come out with an interim report, which has been released. I have a couple of questions. When is the final report of the Tourism Futures group going to be released? That report talks about looking at new funding strategies. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has released a very good two-stage report suggesting a departure tax in the sector to raise revenue to help our Pacific neighbours adapt to climate change, recognising the significant greenhouse emissions of long-haul tourism, and providing for bands within that departure tax for shorter trips, more for medium-distance trips, and then for long-haul. What is the Minister\u2019s response to the recommendations of the parliamentary commissioner around a departure tax? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn a speech he made recently about sustainable tourism and the reset for the industry, he said, \u201CI would like to see changes in pricing strategies across our public assets so that they become financially self-sustaining.\u201D And he referred to a closer look at the international visitor conservation and tourism levy (IVL), which, prior to COVID, did generate significant revenue both for conservation and for tourism infrastructure. In terms of the future, what does this look at pricing assets mean? Is the Minister contemplating an increase in the IVL or is he suggesting that there should be charging for access to conservation land by international visitors? So there are quite a few questions there. I welcome a response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf831342bd34895a1d1de9abfe910f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf831342bd34895a1d1de9abfe910f9\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I must acknowledge the Hon Eugenie Sage as a former Minister of Conservation. We worked very closely together, and I think she did a fantastic job. I will try and answer all your questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne thing I did announce on Thursday was an industry transformation plan, and $10 million for that. The industry transformation plan will see the Government work in participation with the tourism sector, with iwi, with local government, and with a whole lot of other key stakeholders. This will build on a number of plans and proposals that have been brought to me, and that does include the report by the Parliamentary Commissioner of the Environment, which I thought was a very well written and reasoned report. The Tourism Futures Taskforce\u2014as the member rightly outlines, I received a draft report, but what I did say to them is, \u201CPlease don\u2019t do any more work on a final report,\u201D because we had a plan at that time to morph this into an industry transformation plan which will in fact see a lot of their work as well as the other work that\u2019s been done by the Climate Change Commission, etc., etc. Now it will be a lot more targeted. So what the member will find is that the industry transformation plan will take all that great work that has been done in the tourism ecosystem and target it a lot more towards where we need to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of a departure tax, I think I\u2019ve been quite clear on this. A departure tax is not on the work programme for the tourism sector at all. The Prime Minister was very, very clear when we campaigned that there will be no new taxes in this Government, and that does include a departure tax, but also, in case I pre-empt anything, it does not include a fare tax either. So I\u2019m not looking a fare tax or a departure tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of differential pricing, again I\u2019ve been quite clear on this. Those of us who have travelled overseas will often go to places where there is one price for locals or people from the country and one price for international tourists, and I have no problem with that strategy at all. In fact, we do it in a couple of places. My understanding is it\u2019s done on the Waitangi Treaty Grounds. I have no problem with this and I would like to see a level of differential pricing right across the tourism sector that recognises that a lot of these attractions and tourism experiences should be available and open to Kiwis, but international tourists who travel half way around the world will be prepared to pay to see these fantastic attractions. I have always believed that a lot of the attractions we\u2019ve got here, we actually undervalue. In terms of charging for the Department of Conservation (DOC) estate, I have been very clear on this. It is the right of every Kiwi to have free access to the DOC estate and our national parks, but that doesn\u2019t mean we shouldn\u2019t look at and investigate innovative ways to perhaps charge international tourists to come and have a look at iconic New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo that is work that will obviously have to be done in conjunction with myself and the new Minister of Conservation. I\u2019m keen to look at that. I\u2019ve actually been quite open about the international visitor conservation and tourism levy (IVL). As the former Minister knows, it was $35 for everyone, and it excluded Australia and the Pacific Islands, and there are a couple of other minor exclusions. It was designed to raise about $75 million, split between tourism and DOC. I am looking at that\u2014at the IVL\u2014to see if perhaps we need to revise that in light of what\u2019s happened globally and in light of the fact that I have the view that in some places in this country, tourism was losing its social licence to operate. The example I used on Thursday was that there were 870,000 tourists in Milford Sound in the year to date before COVID, and if you talk to anyone that has gone there, certainly any Kiwis, they believe, we believe, and I certainly believe that in fact there were too many people in Milford Sound and it took away from the experience that a whole lot of people had travelled thousands of miles, be they Kiwis or international tourists, to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo we are looking at quite an ambitious work programme, but one thing I have again been very clear on is that of all the strategies we\u2019re putting in place, one of them is that tourism can\u2019t go back to where it was pre-COVID. Hence my focus on quite a clear work programme going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022325b3268d01f49f58f493802acc27ff4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022325b3268d01f49f58f493802acc27ff4\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, you said earlier, around the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme (STAPP), that you didn\u2019t want to talk too much because the Auditor-General is investigating and that you had a no-regrets policy, your Government, when it came to funding and that people were asked to apply and some would be above the line or below the line. But isn\u2019t the challenge, isn\u2019t the concern from the sector, that so many of these businesses weren\u2019t treated fairly? It\u2019s one thing to say we just had to get money out of the door, but if you take an example of where the Auditor-General is investigating, which is the Government\u2019s funding of up to $10 million to AJ Hackett at the time to save 20 jobs, it was before the fund had been released, before the criteria was there. So when it comes to taxpayers\u2019 money, how can the taxpayer and those in the tourism sector who have missed out have any faith in the Government\u2019s ability to continue to deliver funding to help them until international visitors come back if, actually, some have had preferential treatment in as far as they got funding before anybody else even knew they could apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESecondly, Minister, you\u2019ve just announced over the weekend\u2014or at the end of last week\u2014$200 million to help five destinations in the South Island, and others more generally. That\u2019s got to be welcomed because the Opposition was calling for this some time ago. But I ask you why you visited Franz Josef early this year, some months ago, and said, actually, at that time, these businesses that are international facing would have to visit their bank manager, their accountant, or close\u2014because now you\u2019ve turned up with a package we were advocating for and they were asking for, but at some months later. So my question to you, Minister, is: what do you say to the businesses that actually took you at your word two or three months ago, when you said there wasn\u2019t more money, there wasn\u2019t support, and if they couldn\u2019t pivot, it was virtually tough luck? Not your words, but that\u2019s what they heard. And now you\u2019ve fronted up with something which will be helpful for them, it will keep businesses open, but is it just too little, too late? And is this another example of a no-regrets policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223a1712c8b8a04c3495616c1bd9ae74f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a1712c8b8a04c3495616c1bd9ae74f4\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The first thing I will say is I delivered a speech in Queenstown in March where I actually did outline that there was a package coming, and I outlined in broad themes what that package would look like, but I didn\u2019t give the details in that March package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of what I said to the businesses in Franz Josef\u2014and I actually said it on national TV to tourism businesses up and down the country\u2014is that if they were international-facing businesses or predominantly based on international tourism and they hadn\u2019t managed to pivot in a way that would allow them to take advantage of the increase in New Zealand tourists, then they need to have some hard conversations with their bank managers, with their customers, with their directors, and with their staff. The reason I said that is I did not think that it created any value for me whatsoever to go out there and say, \u201CJust hold on. Hold on. The borders are going to open next month.\u201D or \u201CWe\u2019re not too sure.\u201D and give a whole lot of people false hope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI thought what was needed at the time\u2014and I don\u2019t resile from this, and I still believe this\u2014is that there is no point in going out there and giving people false hope and allowing or providing them with, perhaps, some rhetoric that would mean that they would keep their businesses open when, in fact, that wasn\u2019t the case. They needed to make\u2014and this just isn\u2019t tourism businesses; this is businesses up and down the country that actually faced really hard times, and believe me, as the Minister for Small Business, I have got a number of these letters. There are a lot of businessmen and businesswomen up and down this country that are doing it hard. I think giving them false hope would have been the wrong thing to do. But that\u2019s why, in March, I did signal that there was a package coming, and the broad themes around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut if you have a look at what was announced last Thursday, last week, you know, there\u2019s a lot of stuff there, not just for those five regions that have an over 50 percent reliance on international tourists, but there was also stuff in there for tourism operators up and down the country. The thing that we didn\u2019t want to do\u2014when the package was announced on Thursday\u2014was, apart from the inbound tourism operators, specifically signal out a business. That\u2019s why, for example, we\u2019ve provided another $10 million, or $5,000 per business, to take up any form of business advice. That\u2019s why we provided another $5,000 per business, or $10 million overall, to allow these businesses to take advantage of that advice, if, in fact, the original $5,000 didn\u2019t give them enough money or enough leeway to do that, because one of the criticisms I had heard was \u201CWe\u2019ve had this advice. It\u2019s been really good, but I haven\u2019t got the money to implement it.\u201D So we didn\u2019t want to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I must acknowledge and the thing that I\u2019ve pushed really hard on, and not only in the tourism sector but also in my small business portfolio, is I acknowledge that these are really, really tough times for some men and women in the sector. You know, pre-COVID actually, Xero did some work around mental health and businesses, and what they found is 40 percent of small business owner-operators said that running a small business impacted upon their mental health. And that was in the good times. We know that for a lot tourism operators, this has had a detrimental effect on their health and wellbeing. It\u2019s the reason why we put a substantial sum of money in there. So if people are under stress, under undue stress and they\u2019re really feeling it, then they can get professional help. I think that\u2019s really important and I\u2019m pretty proud of that initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00222aff70a11a9b4f168cc700ec8ac61b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aff70a11a9b4f168cc700ec8ac61b16\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, thank you. You said you didn\u2019t want to give them false hope, but you gave them no hope, in fact, which is even worse because you virtually said there was no help coming and here we are, a couple of months later, there is some. So I take the point, having been a Minister, the Government\u2019s got to be very careful in what it says and what it signals, but actually you did deliver for them what they\u2019re asking some months later and there are businesses that have been closed because they took you at your word. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIf I may, a separate question\u2014it comes to the Provincial Growth Fund, because we heard a lot about this during the last term of Government in the run-up to the election and there were a lot of promises. Minister, it is very important that where taxpayer money is spent, it\u2019s spent properly. Your Government previously has talked about up to 12,000 jobs being created by the Provincial Growth Fund. But, of course, in information that\u2019s just been released\u2014and it\u2019s very hard to get this information\u2014we see an almost $100 million proposal or announcement before the last election, very close to the last election, to help maraes around the country where there\u2019d be 3,100 jobs created, and information released by your department shows there were just 158. So my question to you, Minister, is: when is the public able to take the Government\u2019s word that when they spend taxpayers\u2019 money that\u2019s being borrowed to create jobs, actually, the number of jobs that you and your Government have said will be created are created?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc38eac1cd44a4aab7b72eaa607fcb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc38eac1cd44a4aab7b72eaa607fcb8\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister for Economic and Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, just to the original point that the member made, I do acknowledge that a number of businesses have gone into hibernation, and I do acknowledge that when borders open, in fact, they may want to reopen to take advantage of the opportunities that come through. But I also acknowledge that when you\u2019re reopening after you\u2019ve been closed for a certain length of time, that is going to be really expensive and really difficult. It\u2019s the reason why we did put a $49 million fund in there\u2014to help businesses that had gone into hibernation. I\u2019m very keen to take a wide view of what hibernation looks like and I\u2019m also keen to take a very wide definition of a tourism business. You know, hypothetically, if you\u2019re the petrol station owner in Te \u0100nau and 70 percent of your business comes from international tourists, then as far as I\u2019m concerned that\u2019s a tourist business. So that hibernation fund does recognise that there will be a significant cost coming out of that and, hopefully, will help address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF), let me make a couple of comments before I move on to the marae rejuvenation fund. First of all, the Provincial Growth Fund. When I took over as the Minister, the first thing I did is I asked officials and then I asked for an independent review, a line-by-line review, of every single project that the PGF had funded. I wanted to be sure that, in fact, the right process had been followed, that a process of integrity had been followed, because, as the member mentioned, when you are spending taxpayers\u2019 money, you\u2019ve got to make sure that that can hold up to scrutiny. I\u2019m very pleased to say that in every single project we went through, a really robust process had been followed. There was wide consultation. Projects over a certain level had gone to a group of Ministers\u2014I should say an independent panel that then went to Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet me talk about the marae rejuvenation project. Personally, I actually think this is one of the great things we fund in this Government. I really do. I mean, just last week, I was in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki. And I\u2019ll tell you that the difference that a bit of funding made to \u014Cp\u014Dtiki Marae was fantastic. You know, like all of us, I\u2019ve been to a lot of marae. They are often the centre of that community. They\u2019re the first to open when there\u2019s a tragedy. Kaik\u014Dura\u2014who was open: the marae. During COVID, who was there dishing out food and providing support: the marae. You will not find a tragedy or a circumstance or an incident where the marae actually isn\u2019t the centre not only of the M\u0101ori community but of our general community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut I also acknowledge that a number of the trusts running these marae, they actually haven\u2019t got much money. They do things; they do things hard. They have immense pride in their marae but, you know, they haven\u2019t necessarily got the money to do them up, and providing them with the means to do their marae up has been absolutely fantastic. I am aware that as a white, middle-class, middle-aged man talking about the impact of funding on marae, it\u2019s a little bit\u2014you know. But one thing I will say\u2014I do acknowledge this because I visit and I think it\u2019s fantastic\u2014to the member who did ask me that question is that actually we\u2019ve had some updated figures on that and it\u2019s created over 1,300 jobs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aed8d866a46469cbde3e45ff4801014\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not what the OIA said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223499a891fa404e5dbf64b8418eef2030\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014these are the updated figures as of May. So the Official Information Act reply you might have got was probably not updated; it was the early days. Three hundred and sixty marae have been earmarked for renovation; contracts have been let to 358 of them. And along with the Pasifika churches\u2014and if you went to your local Pasifika church, goodness me, you know, that was a fantastic investment, it really was, and the same with these marae. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo I won\u2019t shy away from the fact that I\u2019m very, very proud of this investment. I think it will make a huge impact on the community. And we must keep in mind that the marae regeneration was not just about jobs; it was about engaging our community. Anyway, I\u2019ve waxed on lyrical enough about that, but I thought it was a fantastic one: over 1,300 jobs and over 358 of the 360 marae. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022768b8ff73b524c85a3e62e5a062fa7f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022768b8ff73b524c85a3e62e5a062fa7f4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the annual review debate on housing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b3c903e4cf46ff8d1244d6cd137998\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. We actually started four minutes late, and my colleague has only one question. We divide this time up to be about seven minutes for the Opposition, and we haven\u2019t come close to our seven minutes yet, because the line of questioning was interrupted at the beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b1f201f344d45b7838daaf81d4cca1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll take one more question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5f959aebeb7485781eb032a1b3e1912\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5f959aebeb7485781eb032a1b3e1912\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, my question is just around the estimated economic benefit from Australians visiting New Zealand during the ski season this winter\u2014what advice has been received regarding that. And, just a corollary to that, what advice, if any, has been received on the lack of staff to businesses who have been trying to get New Zealanders to staff their businesses\u2014for example, their cafes, hotels, restaurants, motels, etc.\u2014but have been unable to get Kiwis to come there? What advice, if any, have you received on amending the immigration settings to keep the staff that they have currently there but whose visas are running out\u2014and, again, in line with that, what advice, if any, on getting staff into New Zealand who are skilled in these sectors, who can ensure that they can operate? And, finally, on this topic, what advice, if any, on costs to the economy if these businesses cannot get their staff? I just point to hotels and ask if you\u2019ve heard the same thing I\u2019ve been hearing: that some hotels can only offer 50 percent of their beds because they don\u2019t have enough staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00222bce1f028997480d893ab29f7dc93105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bce1f028997480d893ab29f7dc93105\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to that member. Look, a couple of things I\u2019d say: I haven\u2019t had any data on the quantification of the benefit to Queenstown district itself. One thing I have been told by Tourism New Zealand is that it could have an economic value of up to a billion dollars for the whole country. And, as mentioned, I\u2019m expecting Auckland to do really well out of this. I\u2019m expecting Queenstown/Wanaka to do well out of this\u2014Te \u0100nau. I\u2019m also expecting Christchurch\u2014in fact, anywhere where there\u2019s an airport. But one thing we know about Australians is that they travel to ski more than any other nationality. Quite an interesting fact, eh? I mean, obviously, it\u2019s an American, European summer anyway; so they wouldn\u2019t be travelling even if they could, but they can\u2019t, and they\u2019ve been holed up in Australia for so long, we\u2019re expecting a whole lot of Australians to come over to your neck of the woods and to the other ski fields and spend up large, because skiers do spend up large.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBack to the point around immigration, it\u2019s not actually my portfolio; that is the Minister of Immigration\u2019s portfolio, but let me say that, as mentioned, earlier on in the year, the Minister of Immigration and I worked together on a plan to ensure that the visas of those who were in Queenstown at a point in time were able to be transitioned or they were able to have a slightly wider remit for the work that they could do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne thing I did say at the chamber on Friday was that we\u2019re not going to be saving spaces in managed isolation and quarantine for unskilled foreign workers to come over and work in the sector, but one thing that I\u2019m prepared to do\u2014and keeping in mind it\u2019s not my portfolio responsibility\u2014is sit down with the Minister of Immigration and look at what we can do for workers that are already in Queenstown at the moment but may be facing visa restrictions around where they can work, for how long they can work, and for whom they can work. So we\u2019ll work on that. I promised the chamber that we would do that. I can\u2019t promise you anything, because, as mentioned, it\u2019s not my portfolio, but it\u2019s something I\u2019m prepared to look at. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EHousing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b605d65b6dd54aecbce8965354e29044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b605d65b6dd54aecbce8965354e29044\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: We now move to the financial review examination of social services and community housing. The Hon Dr Megan Woods is in the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00220001d1b2e51a4c66bfa27d6914b5fccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220001d1b2e51a4c66bfa27d6914b5fccc\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair, thank you. It is my pleasure as the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee to commence the debate on the 2019/20 review for housing. The select committee chose to review the whole of the housing area as a sector. We placed both K\u0101inga Ora - Homes and Communities and the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development\u2014HUD\u2014into a sector-wide review, reporting back to the House on the sector as a whole. The Minister of Housing, the Associate Minister of Housing, and the Minister for Social Development and Employment attended together. The ministries also attended together to respond across the sector. Again, I would like to thank the Ministers for their availability, the Office of the Auditor-General, the ministry officials, our clerks, and the select committee members. Cross-sector reviews are a new way of working so that the select committee can scrutinise with a theme-based approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EK\u0101inga Ora was established in October 2019 to support the Government\u2019s priorities for housing and urban development, incorporating the KiwiBuild unit, Housing New Zealand, and the Housing New Zealand development subsidiary HLC. K\u0101inga Ora is a public housing landlord that partners community, M\u0101ori, and local and central government on urban development projects. In 2019/20, K\u0101inga Ora had a total spending revenue of $1.614 billion. Expenses totalled $1.493 billion, with repairs, maintenance, depreciation, and personnel costs being the largest expenses. HUD is responsible for the policy strategy, funding, and monitoring of New Zealand housing and urban development systems. The 2019/20 year was the first full year of operation for HUD. Their aims include addressing homelessness, housing supply, modernising rental laws and standards, and increasing access to affordable housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EOur review assessed the current state of the housing system. We note demand is growing and more people are experiencing immediate housing needs. Thirty-five percent of households do not own their own home. House prices, rents, and numbers on the housing register have risen. Homeownership has been falling since 1991. The Public Housing Plan noted 74,553 public and transitional housing places. We asked for an estimate on the current shortage. A range was provided based on complex and interrelated factors, which included affordability, location, community demographics, household needs, intergenerational living, public and private rent, and/or homeownership. Budget 2020 delivered funding for 8,000 more homes. We heard the Government expects to deliver 18,000 places in communities by 2024. The Minister informed us that place-based work, which is communities and regions, will give a more accurate picture and, for now, success will be measured regionally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWe learnt that COVID-19 responses were positive, with a thousand homeless people being housed, and this has informed HUD\u2019s Homelessness Action Plan. Staff at K\u0101inga Ora supported social housing tenants very well through lockdown, and we thank them. The Residential Development Response Fund was announced in August 2020. The social housing register demand and supply was reviewed, as was contracting, motel spaces, increasing the provision of transitional housing, and paying the emergency housing contribution. We heard about the Public Housing Plan, the introduction of the Urban Development Act, the National Policy Statement on Urban Development, the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Act, and the COVID Recovery (Fast-Track Consenting) Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThe select committee compared buy-ins with new build numbers, the proportion of private versus public housing in mixed-tenure developments. We examined partnering with community housing providers, KiwiBuild, the improvement of the public housing stock\u2014including making healthy homes standards\u2014and the sustainability of those homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EFinally, we looked at the progressive homeownership scheme and partnering with M\u0101ori and Pasifika to ensure solutions are appropriate for those communities. The review was thorough and far-reaching. I look forward to hearing from the members and the Minister further on specific milestones achieved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e71be3b5d0094f6e96c75ce01f920075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e71be3b5d0094f6e96c75ce01f920075\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E My first question relates to the claim that the Minister has repeatedly made that the funding for the purchase of land at Ihum\u0101tao would come out of the Land for Housing Programme appropriated in the 2020 Budget. We know that Treasury gave advice in a pre-Cabinet briefing to Minister Robertson on 14 December 2020 saying they did not recommend purchasing the Ihum\u0101tao land through the Land for Housing Programme as it was at odds with the programme\u2019s intent, operating model, and scopes of related appropriations. My question, Minister, is when did the Minister first receive advice that the proposed purchase of Ihum\u0101tao land did not fit within the scope of the Land for Housing Programme as appropriated in the 2020 Budget? I hope that the Minister will furnish an answer to that question, because it\u2019s very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhen she stated on 17 December 2020 in a press release to the New Zealand public\u2014she claimed that the land was being purchased from Fletcher\u2019s for $29.9 million under the Land for Housing Programme. My question is: at that time, was she aware that officials were advising she could not use that appropriation for that purpose? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt looks like we\u2019re going to have a frustrating session tonight. My next question to the Minister is: why did the Government reject advice from the Treasury that the most appropriate vote for a new purchase of land at Ihum\u0101tao was, in fact, Vote M\u0101ori Development, and not Vote Housing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, finishing these questions on Ihum\u0101tao\u2014and I do want to note that this is a matter of significant public interest\u2014the Auditor-General has reported that what actually happened with the final purchase of Ihum\u0101tao was that the ministry signed a sale and purchase agreement without the lawful authority it needed from Parliament, and I think it would be good if the Minister would furnish answers to these reasonable questions. So my final question on Ihum\u0101tao is: did she, as stated by the Auditor-General, agree to the establishment of a new appropriation, that was not contained in Budget 2020, specifically for the sole purchase of land at Ihum\u0101tao? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f09d0834568b4736b9c1c65d6a462f8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f09d0834568b4736b9c1c65d6a462f8e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call around the questions that the member Nicola Willis has raised around Ihum\u0101tao. I think what all members of this House will know is that two members of this House wrote to the Auditor-General asking whether or not appropriate steps were taken. The Auditor-General found that what was done was, in fact, within the spirit of the appropriation. What there had been had been some technical breaches of the way that that was done. The letter from the Auditor-General clearly outlines that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat occurred was that the briefing that was given to the Minister of Finance and myself\u2014what it did was it failed to have a recommendation around the setting up of the new appropriation. Now, this is not an unheard-of occurrence. In fact, it happened 71 times under the previous Government, and it is so common that there is, in fact, a process established in this House of Parliament to deal with it. There is a bill that is passed every Budget that tidies up these technical amendments, as was done to tidy up the 71 times that it occurred in only a five-year period\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df6769f29bbf4cffa9301f7aa8ee80df\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: You knew about it\u2014you knew. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc5ee2dab9649c1b9ff88545d569381\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually, under the previous Government, and it turns\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269347806f34b498faebd75e295ff9afc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry to interrupt the member. The member will not bring the Speaker into the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8d13f090964c4280a7259096e5213e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I think one of the things that the member is raising, about whether or not there were concerns that were put that were aired by Treasury and, indeed, by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development\u2014because that is the appropriation that we are here debating. So what we do know is that in December 2020, ahead of the Cabinet decision to purchase the land through the Land for Housing Programme, Treasury raised concerns about both the scope of the KiwiBuild housing appropriation and the purpose and intent of the Land for Housing Programme in the context of the acquisition. Treasury\u2019s concerns on the appropriation scope were addressed through the establishment of a new appropriation, and I think that is one of the things where the member is getting confused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Housing and Urban Development didn\u2019t agree that the acquisition was outside of the scope of the programme\u2019s purpose and intent, but none the less, before the complaint was even laid with the Auditor-General, there was advice being sought on setting up a new appropriation. There simply was a recommendation missing from a briefing to the Minister of Finance and myself, and that will be tidied up in much the same way as the 71 times the previous Government committed such a similar technical breach. That will be tidied up on Budget day next week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00221b1b5f8ff08c4c47b9e0216a26dc5ffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b1b5f8ff08c4c47b9e0216a26dc5ffb\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E That was wholly unsatisfactory, but I\u2019m going to move to a new track on State house building. The Minister repeatedly claims the Government will deliver 18,350 new public and transitional housing places by 2024. The K\u0101inga Ora Sustainability Financing Framework notes that 45,000 houses are due for renewal or replacement in the next 20 years. My question for the Minister is: how many houses will be demolished between now and 2024, and how many, therefore, will K\u0101inga Ora need to build in total to reach the 18,350 additional target, which the Minister repeatedly states?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002241c5f774ffc9429082f199c6d0fd0169\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c5f774ffc9429082f199c6d0fd0169\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister of Housing (M\u0101ori Housing)):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair, and thank you for this opportunity to make a small contribution. I want to address a couple of things that have already been mentioned and also offer a question, to allow the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods, just a bit of time to catch her notes there. The first thing is, actually, what we need in order to make sure we have strong, effective housing opportunities, in particular for M\u0101ori communities, is a strong partnership. I want to just put on the record that under the National-led Government, that that didn\u2019t happen with respect to Ihum\u0101tao, and we found ourselves there tidying up a piece of work that they failed to execute properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut this brings me back to, perhaps, my question, and I want to talk a little bit about the M\u0101ori and Iwi Housing Innovation and the way that we\u2019re able to have a strategy that delivers on M\u0101ori housing aspirations, and the need for us to get that right. In the last year, there\u2019s been a significant amount of money set aside to allow capacity building amongst a number of our partners, and we look to iwi and hap\u016B and M\u0101ori organisations as partners when we look towards housing. A certain amount of money was put forward to allow capacity to be built amongst our M\u0101ori housing partners in this space, and I\u2019m excited, as part of a team, to work with those particular interest groups to make sure we meet housing aspirations. I wonder\u2014and this is my first question to the Minister\u2014in her time at the w\u0101nanga that was established under the Waitangi Tribunal recommendations for this Government, did she see lots of opportunities there for strong partnership with iwi and with M\u0101ori organisations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe second question that I have is one that actually looks towards bringing two portfolios, Madam Chair, so I\u2019m happy to take your guidance on this. One of the things we want to do to make sure that M\u0101ori aspirations are met is to allow environmentally sustainable energy opportunities for M\u0101ori housing. In fact, there was a particular fund set up recently that saw us go out to our partners\u2014I\u2019ll use the word \u201Cpartners\u201D again\u2014to see how we might be able to look towards supporting sustainable energy outcomes as we look towards growing our housing stock with our partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022af9c8cb676e54cea8f7669c35c4e313e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af9c8cb676e54cea8f7669c35c4e313e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just answer a couple of those questions really briefly. In answer to the question that was put around how many demolitions will be required through to 2024 in order to achieve the 18,800 build, the answer is: it depends. It depends on whether or not these are built on land that we already own. One of the things that we are looking to do is move beyond our metropolitan urban centres for the building of State houses that we have great need for across the country. In some cases, that will require us to buy either bare land or private land that already has a house on it. In terms of the demolitions of our own houses, that is something that is happening. Indeed, in the 2019-20 financial year, there were 702 demolitions that happened across a range of our large-scale projects where we\u2019re doing urban intensification. But in terms of the member\u2019s question\u2014how many will be demolished\u2014in many ways it\u2019s immaterial, because when we talk about 18,800, we\u2019re talking about a net figure, so that is netted out for any demolitions of our own stock that occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of answering questions from my colleague the Hon Peeni Henare around what I learnt at the w\u0101nanga at the end of the year in terms of opportunities around partnership in the area of M\u0101ori housing, I think they\u2019re many and varied. They range from addressing homelessness, they extend into community housing providers for public housing to progressive homeownership schemes right through the housing continuum, and we are committed to all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002285ae276faaa24aab921f1598702faa8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285ae276faaa24aab921f1598702faa8f\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I note that the Minister has no idea how K\u0101inga Ora will reach the target once demolitions are taken into account. So my question is whether the State house building track is on track, and can the Minister confirm that she had expectations in Budget 2020, in amidst her priorities for delivery, that K\u0101inga Ora would deliver 70 to 80 percent of the 1,000 new build transitional housing places promised? Of course, this is important because the reason we are spending a million dollars a day as a country on motels is that there isn\u2019t enough housing and the Minister has proposed that transitional housing as part of the solution. Is it correct that K\u0101inga Ora advised the Minister verbally that they would find it challenging to deliver their portion of the thousand transitional housing places by June 2021? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220c186bf5ee41461d803aabc880b3befe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c186bf5ee41461d803aabc880b3befe\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing)):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a brief call on this, and I want to ask the Minister a question but I also want to respond to some of the questions that have come up in the House today. There\u2019s no doubt that housing is by far and away the most important issue that our people face. Whether that is housing affordability, whether that\u2019s access to public housing or transitional housing or State housing, or whether that\u2019s access to warm, dry, and affordable rentals, housing is a hugely important feature of the work that this Government is doing, and we\u2019re very committed to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe question I have, and it kind of relates to something that the previous speaker, Nicola Willis, spoke about, really, is about the build of housing and what the build programme is about. I know that, if previous Governments had kept up building at a particular rate, we may not have found ourselves in the situation that we find ourselves in, having to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d9e08422c24dd3ae67b6000d927367\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question. Be accountable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c07ac5787458407fb67c5580cbe6123b\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014having to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9f954915e9435baa22589029c5ee61\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Be accountable for your own target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a126cfc2d39448fb8d538aa3a3547dfc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the Minister. If the member would kindly keep the Chair out of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce5c4c261cb4b13912e8c6fbe37489b\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. We all know that not enough housing was built, and I think it\u2019s about time that we all owned up to the fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231de81f8c5cd4b3cbb3e1cd0d012aa93\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s KiwiBuild going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd03f17ae8e44f19d38462ed23da211\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and this is a Government that is actually addressing the problem by putting spades in the ground and building houses. It\u2019s a little difficult to ignore that because it keeps happening, and I\u2019m happy for the member to interject if she so chooses, but I would like actually to just have a moment if I could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like the Minister to respond to is actually our build of public and transitional housing, because we know that public housing is a big issue for us. We want people to tell us when housing is a problem for them. There has long been this notion of State versus social versus public. Actually, it\u2019s people in need of housing, and sometimes they\u2019re not able to manage that on their own without significant support, either from community housing providers or from the Government. I think it\u2019s a real testament to this Government that they put housing first in terms of a priority and that they prioritise, also, people who find it difficult to find housing on their own. You know, we have a public housing register that is significant because the need is significant. Now, that doesn\u2019t mean that we shy away from the issue; in fact, what we are doing is we are recognising that we have to put all of our shoulders to the wheel if we\u2019re going to address this, so that people feel confident and comfortable about coming forward and saying they have these needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ESo if I could ask the Minister if she would outline what our plan is for public housing build and also the transitional housing, which is vitally important to move people from public housing into the ability to really take care of their own needs and, hopefully, our aspiration that they get into homeownership themselves. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e570b202bfb44558aafe798f2d0ae624\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e570b202bfb44558aafe798f2d0ae624\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to respond with some information to answer a question put by both members in terms of the public house building, and a reassurance that is on track, I\u2019m happy to inform the House that indeed it is. In fact, since we\u2019ve come into Government\u2014since November 2017, the beginning of our first term in Government\u20147,631 new public housing places have been built; 5,848 of those I am thrilled to inform the House have been new builds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of our transitional places, since we came in in November 2017, 2,364 new transitional places have been put into place. This has more than doubled the capacity of transitional housing available in New Zealand. Is it enough? I think every member sitting in this House knows there is more work to be done and that is something that we are committed to doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the member\u2019s question around the delivery of the transitional housing against those targets, the member will know, because she has received information under the Official Information Act, about a briefing that said that K\u0101inga Ora wasn\u2019t going to deliver all of its bit of it, and for many reasons construction projects got delayed last year\u2014everybody had to down tools for a substantial period of time. But did that mean that we were substantially delayed in the delivery of the absolute number of transitional houses? No. What happened is they were delivered in partnership with community housing providers. So while the target was 1,000 by December 2020, that was in fact reached in January 2021, which I think is a huge achievement for any organisation in 2020, given the delays we had. I\u2019m incredibly proud of our teams and our delivery partners in the community and housing providers sector who helped us deliver that. We are a Government that is committed to getting on with the work, to actually building houses, and making sure that we are continually adding to the supply of houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221fb124cf3182429a861c1ee5daee1af4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fb124cf3182429a861c1ee5daee1af4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2014not \u201CDr\u201D yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a46375d25a684e3ba8f8e7320f11c625\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a46375d25a684e3ba8f8e7320f11c625\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, I like the \u201CDr\u201D, but not yet. Working on it, thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe housing crisis is hitting M\u0101ori communities, as everyone knows here, harder than anyone, and yet the Government to date has shown no indication of the specific policies\u2014lots of names actually\u2014that are targeting increasing M\u0101ori homeownership. I was really disappointed at the Government\u2019s recently announced housing package and this isn\u2019t just a position of Te Paati M\u0101ori; word is your own M\u0101ori caucus are equally fed up, hoi an\u014D. Because if reports are true that there hasn\u2019t been money set aside in this year\u2019s Budget for M\u0101ori housing, then this Government is complicit in entrenching generations of inequality. My question is: will you be setting aside substantial funding to support M\u0101ori housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EP\u0101keh\u0101 have net worth almost five times higher than M\u0101ori, while non-M\u0101ori have a 13 percent higher median wage. This disparity in wealth and income is locking M\u0101ori out of the housing market. M\u0101ori homeownership rates have been falling since 1999. In the latest Census, M\u0101ori individual homeownership fell to 26 percent compared with 41 percent for non-M\u0101ori. My question, Minister, is: what are you doing to increase M\u0101ori homeownership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disgraceful that more than 11,000 M\u0101ori are currently on the social housing register waiting list\u201449.6 percent of the entire waiting list. The current data indicates that 30 percent of M\u0101ori pay rent that is over 30 percent of their weekly income, which is an indicator of household poverty. I\u2019ve said this all before and I\u2019ll keep on saying it until it really sticks: for the majority of wh\u0101nau, finding an affordable house to rent, let alone a house to own, is currently unattainable. My question, Minister, is: what are you doing to help M\u0101ori get into homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe Crown needs to recognise the severe disadvantage that M\u0101ori face in the housing market and immediately introduce a M\u0101ori housing package that includes targeted financial support schemes to help with deposits, such as the old M\u0101ori affairs loans in the past. They also need to address supply through building thousands more social and affordable homes. My question, Minister, is: what targeted financial support are you providing for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe have heard a lot of positive talk about partnership from the other side of the House, which is great, but the question is: what is this Government doing as Tiriti partners for the 12,000 tangata whenua who are homeless in their homeland? M\u0101ori homelessness and the issues surrounding it is the most significant Tiriti issue of today. It is time that this Government treats it as such. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb3ef04d85fa4bceacbe04a32a1887d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb3ef04d85fa4bceacbe04a32a1887d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I thank that member for that contribution and some really good questions, and ones that I\u2019d like to reassure the member that our team of housing Ministers\u2014obviously, the Hon Peeni Henare is the Minister responsible for M\u0101ori housing, but also Marama Davidson with homelessness, and Poto Williams in public housing. This is something that we address constantly in our team as a group of Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI do have some good news for the member in terms of targeted funding pathways. We do acknowledge\u2014and certainly it\u2019s something that I discuss often with my colleagues, and it\u2019s certainly a message that is coming through loud and clear from the M\u0101ori caucus within the Labour Party as well as our team of Ministers\u2014that we have to have targeted pathways. We have to have by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori solutions that can be in there. It is why such a considerable effort has been put in to working to build capacity in the M\u0101ori CHP sector, the community housing provider. The solutions for many of the issues around homelessness and around social housing do lie within communities themselves, so that is why we\u2019ve been working to identify projects that we can fund in a dedicated way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll describe it as very, very imminently that we will have the launch of the dedicated iwi M\u0101ori pathway for progressive homeownership. So what you were talking about in terms of wanting to have a look for some of those schemes that existed in the past that provided ways that the State could help people into homeownership, that is coming very, very, very soon and it is something that has its own ring-fenced funding, and it is targeted funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have also said, in terms of the infrastructure package that we launched\u2014the $3.8 billion package\u2014that that was something where we have to do the work to identify how that\u2019s going to be divvied up in terms of our own Leadership Success Profile\u2014how that\u2019s going to be divvied up with iwi, with M\u0101ori, with councils, with developers. We understand that in order for us to realise the potential that lies within M\u0101ori communities, we have to have ways to make sure that there is funding for the infrastructure that lies beneath that whenua as well. That is work that is ongoing. Peeni Henare is leading as the Minister for M\u0101ori housing and he is working not only with the rest of our housing Ministers in Marama Davidson and Poto Williams but also with our colleague the Hon Willie Jackson, who has responsibility across M\u0101ori development around some of the papak\u0101inga funding as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf3cca831893460199d71255f2326505\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf3cca831893460199d71255f2326505\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness)):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to get up in the Chamber tonight and speak of something which is core to every person in Aotearoa. I stand from the perspective of housing being a basic human right and a core public good. I acknowledge my colleague the Hon Poto Williams in terms of her ministerial delegation in the public housing area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI have a series of some questions for our Minister to actually help people understand where the work programmes are, where the focus has to be, and I wanted to put some context behind some of those questions, starting from the basic premise of what housing actually is for, and also acknowledging\u2014and I acknowledge my colleague\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227efc652804f048a68fe632ab701470d0\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e82a11d5d7ea48cc8c6c342e29e0fdb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Sorry, apologies to the Minister. Point of order, Maureen Pugh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c741b61896b74f0b95c064dd5220117a\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I just need to clarify whether the member is able to speak from the Government benches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68d128ab5e24d78adab8938855711c1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Thank you very much for that point of order. It is something I\u2019m considering right now. So for the time being I will ask the Hon Marama Davidson to continue with her contribution and I will come back to the committee with the ruling very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c163f698a7674b88b75beb6197ece7ab\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a relevant point, actually, and it\u2019s one that I was going to touch on in my context of asking Minister Woods how the ministerial team works together, in terms of the different roles and the overview that we each bring. As part of a ministerial housing team, it is why I wanted to support my colleagues to be able to speak to the ministerial team work that is happening in terms of housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI did want to acknowledge our parliamentary colleague Debbie Ngarewa-Packer in raising the issue of a focus on M\u0101ori housing. My colleague Peeni Henare raised the work of Te Maihi o te Whare M\u0101ori \u2013 M\u0101ori and Iwi Housing Innovation (MAIHI)\u2014the M\u0101ori housing strategy\u2014and also the whare w\u0101nanga that we have been having a series of. Through the whare w\u0101nanga, it is there that our M\u0101ori community providers, our iwi, hap\u016B, and wh\u0101nau organisations in M\u0101ori communities came to the fore, and they were very, very clear about the impacts of colonisation, the impacts of colonisation on the state of M\u0101ori housing today, and how that has filtered through generations of inequity and inequality. I wondered if the Minister wanted to take the opportunity to expand a little bit more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EOne of my delegations is to overview the roll-out of the homelessness action plans that are contained in the first ever comprehensive homelessness action plan that our country has had. And that too picks up on the inequities and the context behind the disproportionate impact on M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori facing housing challenges today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI did want to allow the Minister to dive a little bit more into that particular context that we acknowledge through the set-up, perhaps, of the whare w\u0101nanga, and that opportunity of bringing community M\u0101ori leadership into a partnership. They challenge us, and I thought that that was an opportunity for the Minister to be able to touch on that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EFor the year in review, for the annual year in review that we are talking about right now, there have been incredible impacts that have worsened the housing crisis, such as COVID, ongoing housing unaffordability, lack of supply, and individual stressors. We need to increase prevention and support services. I wondered if I could give the Minister an opportunity, in the year in review, to speak further about some of those impacts that bring to the fore even bigger challenges than I think we have ever faced as a country when it comes to housing, particularly over the past year. I wondered if the Minister wanted to take an opportunity to dive into some of those impacts and how we as a ministerial team, then, are responding to the specific challenges and impacts that we have faced and what our priorities, therefore, are and our work streams and our Budget proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EAnd I also wanted to\u2014wow, where do all those seconds go? I also wanted to pick up on whether the Minister wanted to take the opportunity\u2014there are some particular actions in the homelessness action plan and I\u2019m really proud that they have been picked up, including that I, in the prevention of homelessness, have a particular focus on housing first, sustaining tenancies, expanding housing support for people and young people in care leaving Oranga Tamariki. But I wonder whether the Minister specifically wanted to mention supporting returned overseas offenders who are homeless and supporting women leaving prisons, as a few of the priority actions in the homelessness action plan\u2014whether there was an opportunity to speak more on why those are important and why they have been picked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo, and I think, just lastly, I wanted to\u2014and I think this is supporting my colleague Minister Peeni Henare in MAIHI, the M\u0101ori housing space. That MAIHI plan\u2014and this relates to my particular responsibility in rolling out transitional housing\u2014picks up on kaupapa M\u0101ori principles. The M\u0101ori housing community and providers are keeping us to account as we continue to aspire to achieve those principles. They include the principles of understanding the mauri of not just people who are without a home but the mauri of what whenua and being housed actually creates for wh\u0101nau. They underpin the principles of kaupapa M\u0101ori in the MAIHI housing plan and include a principle of whakamana, that being that every person\u2019s dignity, in wrapping around social supports, making sure that people are receiving the care that they need, is at the absolute centremost of how we approach working with wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI think one of the other principles that I really wanted to pick up on is the principle of whanaungatanga and the importance of whakapapa. Minister Woods, whether or not you have heard not just from M\u0101ori communities but as I have been engaging with community housing providers, and I am hearing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7bb980fc87d4e0aa27a43c3f882cf89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7bb980fc87d4e0aa27a43c3f882cf89\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. I did allow the member to, perhaps, go over time because there was a timing bell issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThank you for the point of order that was raised a little earlier. I\u2019m referring to Speaker\u2019s ruling 16/6. There isn\u2019t a clear ruling on the specific incidents but generally, in terms of a member changing seats to make a contribution, it is generally regarded to lead to disorder because a member can tend to move to their advantage. In this case, however, my ruling is that the member in question, relying on Speaker\u2019s ruling 16/6 as I have, but more specifically the Minister is appearing in a financial review as part of a Minister\u2019s team and, therefore, I judge that to be in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222e48aa42af3a4709b09b301b1f4c223d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e48aa42af3a4709b09b301b1f4c223d\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to ask a few questions and, I guess, raise some concerns around the general state of accessible housing and where we\u2019re at as a country for planning for our ageing population. I want to start by acknowledging that within the annual review, K\u0101inga Ora acknowledged that the public housing stock universal design target of 15 percent is a modest target that they would ideally like to exceed. I\u2019m really pleased to hear that and I look forward to them exceeding that when they report for the first time next year. But I would like to hear from the Minister about when we might expect to see the target revised up beyond that. It feels like kind of a pitiful target\u2014and I have heard one of the Ministers express that view as well\u2014of just 15 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe reason this is so important is that, one, at the moment the assessment is that only about 2 to 3 percent of our housing in New Zealand is accessible and that 20 to 25 percent of the population identify as having disabilities. Not all of those people will need accommodations in their housing but we are also an ageing population and in the lifetime of the houses that are being built right at the moment the population of this country over 65 will probably double. Almost a quarter of our entire population will be over 65 within the lifespan of the houses that we are building now. And it\u2019s really important as we build inclusive communities that we think about the needs of everybody and how we futureproof our housing. It has been raised with me from the disability community that they are very keen to see this target put up\u2014even as a starting point for the Labour Party manifesto target of 25 percent and to see that committed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut they really don\u2019t see why all of our houses can\u2019t be built to universal design standards. I had a fantastic meeting with Lifemark recently up in Auckland, and they were talking to me about how it used to be perceived that building to universal design was more expensive than a standard build. But actually what they\u2019re seeing now is that the cost of lifts has come down so significantly that, actually, really they are not at all convinced that the price of building is any more inaccessible\u2014to be building to universal design. They do, however, recognise that there is a significant knowledge gap right across our building industry, including within K\u0101inga Ora, to understand what is universal design. They\u2019ve seen plans for buildings that have beautiful wide doorways and flat floors, and even a lift, but there are steps into the house that make it inaccessible and kind of make all of that good work pointless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo they have a question about who will be overseeing and checking in terms of that delivery of the target for universal design. They want to see strong systems to ensure that we are building that capacity and ensuring that when we\u2019re delivering on this, we are doing it well, and also recognising that we\u2019ve got 900 people on the social housing list that we know of, who are needing accessible housing, and that\u2019s a lot of people who at the moment are going to be waiting a long time when that\u2019s our target. That does not include people who are on good incomes but can\u2019t find an accessible house because they are not eligible to be on that waiting list. We\u2019ve heard of people having to choose jobs that have showers at their workplace because they cannot find a house with a shower that they can access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo we need to make sure all of our housing stock is built to universal design and accessible, and I\u2019d love to hear from the Minister when are we going to make changes to the Building Act and to standard 4121, and whether the changes to the Resource Management Act are also going to take this opportunity to encourage universal design in our rebuild of this country. There\u2019s so much we can do and I\u2019m looking forward to hearing that we\u2019re doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00227e4481a75bf74dc999dc7e64010f6cd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e4481a75bf74dc999dc7e64010f6cd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and I\u2019m happy to take a call to talk about accessible housing. The questions about the changes to the Building Act will need to be put to the Minister for Building and Construction when she\u2019s not sitting in here in her capacity as the Associate Minister of Housing\u2014that\u2019s something that comes under that portfolio. But I do have good news for the member. The target at the moment is 15 percent for K\u0101inga Ora for universal design or accessible. The reality is that just about all of the homes that are being built that are either on a ground floor or are lift-accessible are being built to universal or accessible design standards. I think it would be hard to imagine a person who is more passionate about accessible properties than the chair of K\u0101inga Ora, Vui Mark Gosche, and I just want to really acknowledge the leadership of Vui in this area and what an absolute passion it is for him\u2014and what a lived passion for him these issues are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo what we are also looking at doing, starting from the 2021-22 financial year, in our financial reporting is reporting against those accessibility targets in a different way so that there is more transparency around it\u2014sorry, not the targets, what the outcomes are, so that there will be a change to our financial reporting, which by necessity will answer some of the questions that the member put around the systems that will be needed to ensure that it is happening, the monitoring, all that kind of thing. Financial reporting and changes to that tend to kind of lead that kind of change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the comments that the member made about whether or not there was the capacity and knowledge within K\u0101inga Ora and within our build teams and our contract partners and our build partners to do that, I\u2019d like to reassure the member that there certainly is that capacity and that knowledge and that ability to do it. One of the things that we have been quietly getting on and doing is just upping the number of accessible universal design houses that we have been building, but also building to Homestar 6 standards so that we\u2019re making sure we\u2019re building warm, dry homes for people to live in. What we\u2019ve been able to do is provide leadership in the construction industry because of the sheer number that we are building around waste reduction, Homestar 6 building, and, because of the number that we\u2019re building, we eventually managed to get the price down to actually about the same as it would cost to build just to the building code, and the same is going for our universal design work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022900d2938cb4f4fe29f2c771f99d18d13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022900d2938cb4f4fe29f2c771f99d18d13\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E Two quick questions for the Minister: first, I want to confirm her earlier remark that it is correct that while K\u0101inga Ora had a target of 700 to 800 transitional houses to be built by June this year, the Minister, on hearing that they were off-track, revised down that target to 500. The reason, of course\u2014well, I look forward to the Minister\u2019s clarification of that point. Of course, that is the form here, because KiwiBuild, if it were to have delivered on the Minister\u2019s promises, would be delivering 16,000 houses next month, but, of course, that is not the case. However, what the Minister has revised her target to is that 800 KiwiBuild houses will have been built in the year to June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo my question is whether the KiwiBuild delivery targets are at risk, given the Ormiston Rise development has gone into receivership. Written question answers the Minister has provided to me show that there are 176 KiwiBuild homes in the Ormiston Rise development due to be built by June this year and that as of 15 March, only 60 were under construction. Is KiwiBuild going to meet its target this financial year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EGiven the filibustering that has occurred tonight\u2014the lack of readiness from Ministers to show accountability for their portfolios and to answer simple questions about things that they are accountable to New Zealand taxpayers for and that they are accountable to voters for because of the promises they made them\u2014I\u2019m going to take this opportunity to take a call and put some questions to the Minister that she might have the grace to address, because, actually, in this country right now, we are facing a housing emergency of proportions that the Minister should not be laughing about. The Minister should know that she promised 16,000 KiwiBuild houses by June. So I would ask her if she had actually delivered on her promise, would the State house waiting list be a little shorter, because right now, that waiting list is more than 23,000 people. It has quadrupled since National left office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo my question for the Minister would be: does she think she\u2019s doing a good job when four times as many New Zealanders are out of a home, squeezed out of the private rental market, and unable to pay the rent, and are having to line up for a State house that that Minister can\u2019t provide? Does the Minister think that\u2019s acceptable and, I want to know, does she think the increase in the State house waiting list that occurred last month alone\u2014that\u2019s right: 456 additional people last month couldn\u2019t pay the rent because the rents have gone up so astronomically under this Government. It was so desperate that they signed up to the State house waiting list, and that\u2019s not even including the people I was told about in the Wairarapa yesterday, who said, \u201CWe don\u2019t even bother going on the list any more, because you wait more than a year to get a house.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo, not even accounting for that, of those 456 who were added to the list in the past month alone, how many does she think got added to that list because the landlord put up the rent because the Minister decided to mess around with interest deductibility? I\u2019d like to know what steps is she taking to monitor the increases in rents that are occurring as a result of her Government\u2019s tax policy, and when will the rent data come out, because it seems mysterious to us, sitting here in the Opposition, that the last lot of rent data that was due in March hasn\u2019t come out yet. Is that because the Minister has something to hide? Has she modelled what rent increases will do to the State house waiting list? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a really important question, and if the Minister doesn\u2019t address this, colleagues\u2014if the Minister doesn\u2019t address this question, then ask yourself what her commitment is. This question is: by what date will the State house waiting list reduce? I\u2019m not even asking the Minister when she\u2019ll get it back to the levels National managed to keep it at; I\u2019m asking her when was\u2014[Interruption] OK, the members opposite laugh. I want the members opposite to explain to the 23,000 people on the State house waiting list why that is not Labour\u2019s fault. There are four times as many people who have been squeezed out of their private rental, and I want that Minister to tell me when we will see a month of statistics in which that number drops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to know: if you\u2019re off-track with the transitional housing, how can we trust you on your other programmes? I want to know: is KiwiBuild on track, because what we heard this month\u2014just yesterday; just over the weekend\u2014was that the Ormiston Rise development had gone into receivership. Now, I had a conversation with a very anxious KiwiBuild buyer, who said to me, \u201CI thought that when I bought a KiwiBuild home, that meant the Government had done its due diligence. That meant the Government had run the ruler over. That meant the Government was confirming that this was a good house to buy. And now I get a letter, a cold letter at 5.30 on a Friday night, saying, \u2018Actually, it\u2019s gone into receivership. We\u2019ll work something out. If you\u2019ve got any questions, talk to your lawyer.\u2019\u00A0\u201D Well, Minister, I would like to know: will the 176 KiwiBuild houses that are meant to be happening in the Ormiston Rise development be completed and will they be completed on time, and if they are not going to be completed, does that put her KiwiBuild target at risk? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI also want to know, Minister, whether she thinks she is doing everything she can to partner with the community housing organisations up and down this country that I have spoken to that say that if that Minister were to take a different approach in some of her policies\u2014and I\u2019d like to note for members opposite that some of these community housing providers are iwi-led or wish to partner with iwi to provide M\u0101ori housing. I wish to note that, because this was a point of discussion earlier. Does the Minister acknowledge that current policy settings are preventing them from delivering the homes that they could deliver? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI would like to know why the Minister doesn\u2019t drop her ideology and get some houses built. If the Minister would answer just one of those questions, that would be a great start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022edd2b345b99b488985e50d75d16c77e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edd2b345b99b488985e50d75d16c77e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m happy to address those questions, as I have all the questions that have been put to me in the committee this evening. In answer to the first question that the member put in terms of being behind this year, I\u2019d like to remind the member of the subject of the debate that we are having, and what we are doing is looking back at the previous financial year. What I was talking about was the 2019-20 financial year, and I talked about the fact that there was a five-week delay because of COVID in terms of that delivery and who it was who delivered those. We are on track for transitional housing this year. I think the member misunderstood that contribution, so I\u2019d like to reassure that member that this Government is continuing to roll out transitional and emergency housing in a way that previous Governments failed to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe member also asked a question about KiwiBuild and whether we\u2019re on track around targets. The target that KiwiBuild has is as many houses as quickly as we can, so the answer is we\u2019re absolutely on track around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe member asked a question about Ormiston Rise, and this is a serious question and one that does need to be addressed. Over the weekend, I received briefings, and then I took the opportunity to talk to officials and get deeper briefings on Monday around this, because this is something that I do take seriously. What I am very pleased to report to the House is that while this is a development that has been placed into receivership, the officials, after discussions with the receivers, have confidence that there is a shared desire to see that development progress and that all indications are pointing to that fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI wouldn\u2019t like to see scaremongering in this House that would unduly unsettle those people. What I want to give those people that are affected\u2014and I have great empathy and I feel for them\u2014is that all that can be done is being done, but whatever happens, their money is safe and there are ways in which they are protected. I think that we need to take great care when we discuss these issues, and I will continue to keep this House updated as I am asked about it, or \u201Cif I am asked about it\u201D is probably more the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the question the member put that if we had built all our KiwiBuild houses, would our social housing register be low, I\u2019d just like to take this opportunity to explain to the committee that for those people who are in social housing, it\u2019s not a question of \u201CWill I buy a house today, or will I register for social housing?\u201D, because they\u2019re two completely different pools\u2014one doesn\u2019t affect the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of what we need to do to help people into affordable homeownership, that is something that a Government has been committed to for the first time in a generation. When it comes to public housing, what we have to be doing is adding to the housing stock for that. We will not continue the practice of the previous Government that when they weren\u2019t reducing State house numbers by selling them off, any time it was added to was largely through buy-ins. That is not our policy. Our policy is to build, to add to the housing stock, and to make sure that we are doing our bit to address the housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe sometimes hear criticism that we have continued selling off. Well, I think the figures speak for themselves. Here and there, there has to be a property transition, but what we\u2019ve seen is something like 190 houses sold in the time since we have come into Government versus about 1,500 that the previous Government sold off. These are entirely different propositions and entirely different ways of dealing with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe will always make sure that we have housing stock that is fit for purpose and fit for our clients, and there will always be\u2014and always has been\u2014everyday transactions within the housing portfolio. What you will not see from our Government is the mass sell-off of State houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIf the member wants to talk about what is driving that State house waiting list, it is not only the selling off but the failure of the previous Government to build any houses over nine years. They finished Government with 1,500 fewer houses than they started with. If they\u2019d built at even our minimum level of 1,600 houses a year, we would have had 15,000 more public houses in New Zealand. So if any member wants to have a conversation about why we have had an increase in our public housing register, I\u2019m happy to have that conversation. I can also tell that member, from being in an electorate office and being an electorate MP, that we no longer have tenants too scared to come and put themselves on the register\u2014people who might be overcrowding into a house with other tenants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd5f9056249b4f7eb4e430ba12802ec8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd5f9056249b4f7eb4e430ba12802ec8\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Minister confirm that she thinks $750 million worth of State house sales since Labour came to Government amounts to \u201Chere and there\u201D? Can the Minister confirm that increasing rents put pressure on the State house waiting list? And can she also confirm that she received explicit advice that policies to remove interest deductibility could put pressure on rents\u2014particularly for the lowest-income tenants\u2014and she went ahead with those policy changes anyway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, to return to those matters we\u2019ve had two points of clarification on: can she confirm that she received a briefing that said this, \u201CAs advised to you verbally, K\u0101inga Ora will find it challenging to deliver their portion of the thousand transitional housing places, 70 to 80 percent, by June 2021 for this reason.\u201D The letter of expectation notes that at least 500 places are expected to be delivered by 30 June 2021. In other words, the Minister talked to K\u0101inga Ora. They said, \u201CLook, we\u2019re not on track to deliver, we can\u2019t do it,\u201D, and the Minister said, \u201CNo problem. I\u2019ll revise down my expectation. I\u2019ll revise down the target; that\u2019s how we roll.\u201D It\u2019s Labour; they promised 16,000 houses, couldn\u2019t deliver it, and just said, \u201COh, we don\u2019t do targets for KiwiBuild any more.\u201D Are we seeing the same in transitional housing? If the Minister could address those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc38fbdc7343432a95e95065ad8064c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc38fbdc7343432a95e95065ad8064c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to reiterate what I\u2019ve said to that member\u2014that we\u2019ve delivered transitional housing through both community housing providers and K\u0101inga Ora. The reason why I have allowed K\u0101inga Ora to revise it down but revise up delivery in other areas is because we\u2019re able to deliver those numbers through alternative pathways. The same number of houses will eventuate; we are continuing to add to the stocks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAnd I will address the question about rent increases that the member did raise then, and in a previous question. The data shows that the year on March to March rent increase figure is 1.6 percent for last year, that we\u2019ve seen\u2014we know that probably is a little bit suppressed because of the period of lockdown, when there wasn\u2019t the ability to put up rent, so we think it\u2019s probably more in the realm of somewhere between 2 to 4 percent. But I also note for that member, when she was asking about data sets that we\u2019ll be using\u2014and there\u2019s a variety\u2014that Stats NZ and bond data will be the primary data sets that we will use. But I do note that the Trade Me stats came out today and it showed an absolute flat-lining of rent in the last 30 days, the period of time we said that we were going to see\u2014you know, there were some people saying that we could see very large rent increases. It certainly didn\u2019t happen and the statistics didn\u2019t back it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223983e0f8850b4905845d4eaf8230268c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for the House to rise for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 o\u2019clock this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EEnergy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c8d2db121d47908f025731db2c964e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c8d2db121d47908f025731db2c964e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when we suspended for the dinner break, we were in the annual debate. We now move to the energy and resources portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1d65a71c3fa4115aa9841a4bb7895f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1d65a71c3fa4115aa9841a4bb7895f0\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Chairperson of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in this debate, the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill annual review debate, energy and resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIs my microphone on? I\u2019ll just carry on talking, and, hopefully\u2014unless I move to the other side; that\u2019s probably made it more difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae058f3013644d65a7fbd34ae4b6c1c1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Move to the right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb53382bef434fb0b9220fd70f65cc11\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: If I stay where I am\u2014I\u2019ll just carry on talking in a loud voice, so the members can hear. [Microphone turns on] There we are\u2014ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe annual review debate, energy and resources: so, look, as the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, I appreciate the opportunity to provide the committee with a little bit of an overview of what we heard in the annual reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start by talking about the annual review of Meridian Energy Ltd. Meridian told us that its passenger vehicle fleet is now fully electric and that it expects that all its fleet will be electric within the next two years. It is planning a carbon sink to mop up its carbon emissions. The company has an active commitment to their sustainability. Also, they spoke quite a bit about renewable energy generation. Meridian told us it had recently announced that construction would begin on the Harapaki Wind Farm, expected to cost around $395 million. It reported that renewable energy generation\u2014wind, geothermal, and solar\u2014is becoming cheaper and that it can replace older, fossil fuel - based generation. It did not see a problem with future supply, but would encourage policy makers to think about ensuring that demand continues to be stimulated. We also heard about the use of non-renewable generation, in terms of the just transition away from fossil fuels. We heard about the resource management framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EAnd also, which will probably be of particular interest, we heard about the planned closure of the T\u012Bwai Point Aluminium Smelter. Meridian announced, in January 2021, that it had reached an agreement with its largest customer, Rio Tinto, which operates the New Zealand Aluminium Smelter at T\u012Bwai Point in Southland. The planned closure had been extended from August 2021 to December 2024. Meridian noted it was unlikely that the contract would be extended past 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo I won\u2019t take too much more time, because I know that there will be other speakers who would like to ask questions of the Minister. So if I could just kick this aspect of the debate off by asking the following question of the Minister. Like I said, at the select committee we heard that renewable energy generation\u2014wind, geothermal, and solar\u2014is becoming cheaper and can replace older fossil fuel - based generation. So my question is: what role has the Government played in this transition, and to what extent has the Government promoted investment in new renewable energy sources? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7a5fb03e6574498bd914ca4ba530250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7a5fb03e6574498bd914ca4ba530250\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods\u2014it\u2019s been reported that the Pohokura gasfield is now delivering 43 percent less gas than it did at the time the Government announced an oil and gas ban. OMV have said that about $100 million of investment is needed just to keep up current production. To her knowledge, has OMV reduced maintenance investment in Pohokura, and has this led to greater risk to the asset, including reduced production? I\u2019m happy to ask another one if\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022154186a4a47f4ba39b71a4cc6af402c0\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Keep going\u2014she doesn\u2019t answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220aaeb76343042c1879a62ffff1a40e5\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Recent reporting is that New Zealand Steel and Fonterra are both now on day-to-day gas contracts. As we head through the winter and to spring, this will create serious risks to Fonterra, who have no choice but to process the milk that they receive. Has she sought any advice on potential imports to New Zealand of liquid natural gas into the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002299c2889597ba4b06b7e99f017403a573\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299c2889597ba4b06b7e99f017403a573\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. To the Minister, we\u2019ve heard a little bit more over the past few days about security of supply, the resilience of the electricity system, and measures that the private sector are taking to reduce consumption as one of those voluntary steps to make sure that other conservation measures are not required. But it is of great concern to the ACT Party, and to those businesses, no doubt, that they are having to reduce production and, potentially, turn people away from jobs while electricity prices remain so high. It appears they remain high because of a shortage of natural gas, for reasons that have been well canvassed\u2014because the Pohokura field is slowing down. So my question to the Minister: given that an energy shortage has led to an increase in wholesale energy prices, does the Minister see a risk of New Zealanders paying more in their energy bills each month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222f130c128a1a453ab2dbb8ab1d43aa37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f130c128a1a453ab2dbb8ab1d43aa37\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister, has she received the latest Gas Industry Company supply and demand report, and, if so, when will it be released? I\u2019ll keep going: why has the Minister appointed to the Technical Reference Group for the NZ Battery project, a group that will provide technical advice on a potential $4 billion investment in pumped hydro, that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has called potentially the largest earth-moving project in New Zealand\u2019s recent history\u2014why has she appointed a School Strike 4 Climate organiser and a Greenpeace campaign manager to the so-called technical group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0d257226a6446d893673fefaa1af6b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0d257226a6446d893673fefaa1af6b4\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and, again, thank you to the Minister for the briefing that you voluntarily provided to the ACT Party, to the National Party, and to the Green Party last week. It was very helpful, and it was good to have the opportunity to speak to you and to officials in a more informal setting. I\u2019d actually like to preserve that spirit of collegiality tonight, but there are some rather important questions that we do need answered. Firstly, does the Minister agree with the Climate Change Commission\u2019s suggestion that burning some residual gas is OK and that the focus of any reforms to the electricity sector or reductions in emissions should be on decarbonising energy as a whole, not just electricity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EFurther, does the Minister agree with the chief executive of Genesis Energy that a mix of energy sources is important to maintain a stable, reliable system so we can decarbonise other sectors using electricity, a statement that the CEO of Genesis made on Radio New Zealand earlier this week? And does she also agree with Genesis Energy\u2019s CEO that the Onslow project is a stupid project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1c43f8ed3794158b1a90c4933c6cbdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1c43f8ed3794158b1a90c4933c6cbdc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and I\u2019m happy to take a call and answer questions. Just to give the committee an indication, I will batch questions up to answer them, so if you want to keep going with questions, they will be addressed. In terms of the question that was put to me by the National Party Opposition spokesperson about whether what we\u2019re experiencing at Pohokura at the moment, and I\u2019ve received advice, is because of a lack of investment, the answer is no, that is certainly not the advice I\u2019ve received. In fact, in terms of working with OMV, even over the lockdown period where we couldn\u2019t get people across the border, we were working under the critical worker exemption to make sure that we could keep the workforce that was required right across the energy sector, including in the gas sector, to make sure those workers were crossing the border. That work is seasonal when it comes to fixing issues on pipelines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re seeing is, I think, the grim reality for many people that gas is no silver bullet for security of supply of electricity in New Zealand. The electricity issue that we\u2019re seeing at the moment is largely the failure of gas within our system, and actually points to how we have to look at alternatives for addressing the issue of dry-year risk, and that gas is no cast-iron way in which we can ensure security of supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of whether or not I\u2019ve sought advice on LNG, my understanding is that the Gas Industry Company report will provide some advice on LNG\u2014wasn\u2019t something that was included in my original request to them, but my understanding is that that will be included when it comes to me. In regard to the question of have I received it, not yet, but I expect to very soon, and I expect its release will be imminent after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the appointment to the TAG\u2014the technical advisory group\u2014for the Onslow project, I\u2019d just like to point to one of the people that\u2019s being examined and questioned as to whether she should be there, Amanda Larsson, who has a Master\u2019s of science in ecological economics. She\u2019s worked internationally on questions around this and brings not only a perspective but also a great deal of expertise. So I think we need to be very careful before we start singling out individuals and questioning whether or not they should be there. In order to adequately assess what is a really serious issue for New Zealand, we have to make sure that we have a range of expertise sitting around the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the question that was put to me\u2014and I think a sensible question\u2014from the ACT Party about whether or not it should be decarbonising of energy or electricity, I actually don\u2019t see this as a dichotomy. In order to address one, we have to address the elephant in the room, and that is how it is that we address dry-year risk. In order for us to get to 100 percent renewable electricity, we have to address how it is that we\u2019d prepare for a year such as we\u2019re going through now. In order to do that, that allows for further electrification of our energy system. So it\u2019s not a matter of disagreeing or not disagreeing; I just simply don\u2019t buy into the dichotomy that many in the industry try and paint between energy and electricity. When I think of it, I think of it as an energy system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b725ade45b664f0ba3e1340182380f59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b725ade45b664f0ba3e1340182380f59\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In November 2019, the Minister received advice from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) on a potential pumped hydro scheme. The advice received some quotes that read as if they were from Yes, Minister rather than MBIE\u2014quotes like \u201CThe future value of pump storage is unclear. This is not a small or trivial project.\u201D While the scheme\u2019s economics may look appealing on paper, the ministry stated, \u201CA scheme like Onslow is a high-cost, long-term solution to dry-year storage and lowering emissions. While no detailed planning has taken place, it is not impossible that designed and constructed a large earth dam could take 10 years.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EGiven we have wholesale electricity prices that are four times what they were at the time of the oil and gas ban, my question to the Minister is: is the $100 million spent on the New Zealand Battery Project\u2014of that money, what options for dry-year storage are going to be considered? Will it consider ammonia as a dry-year storage, as suggested by MBIE, and will it consider gas as a dry-year storage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221f486d711eef4558a663c75d7fbb5a8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f486d711eef4558a663c75d7fbb5a8b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to point to the member that the reason why we\u2019re spending in phase one $30 million and in phase two $70 million is for precisely those reasons. I\u2019d like to say some very hard-working officials put together that advice and I have a great deal of respect for the advice that they give to me and it is appreciated\u2014rather than ridiculing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo in terms of what it will look at, which has been well canvassed in public documents\u2014it will look at pumped hydro, it will look at the particular case of Onslow, and it will look at smaller North Island schemes as comparators to that. What is happening, the phase that we\u2019re at, at the moment, is actually putting together a long list of what the comparative technologies will look at. But this is actually about ways in which we do renewable systems. This is about what the future of the world looks like, and that is renewable energy. So, no, we will not be looking at fossil fuels for New Zealand\u2019s future, because our Government believes we have to be planning for a fight against climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022bba82e8981f14a9da3b908ec88d38a35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bba82e8981f14a9da3b908ec88d38a35\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. To the Minister: does she agree with the Genesis CEO that electricity can help us decarbonise, but we should not get hung up on the last remaining bits of emissions\u2014that we must focus on security of supply and pricing. If so, does she believe that having New Zealand\u2019s major industries turn off production to save power this winter reflects security of supply and pricing? Should New Zealand homeowners be concerned about price rises and the welfare of older persons, and should businesses be worried about price rises impacting on their business viability because of the lack of security of supply and the very significant increase in prices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022106f891937c842fe9461adef7be1936f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022106f891937c842fe9461adef7be1936f\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to ask the Minister about the just transition, because we keep hearing a lot about just transition, and since I\u2019ve been in the spokesperson\u2019s role, I\u2019ve actually seen a lot of exciting possibilities in the future. But right now, none of them are ready. They need to be built. They need to be developed. You know, hydrogen\u2019s talked about a lot. We talk about building more wind farms. But what I\u2019d be extremely worried about is, as I said before, it could take 10 years if Onslow\u2014not that I think Onslow is a good idea; I think it\u2019s a very bad idea. But what\u2019s going to happen in the next 10 years with limited gas supply if we have no rain\u2014what is in the future, and what is the just transition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002275126dcda31044ccadcfc4acf8427bad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275126dcda31044ccadcfc4acf8427bad\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. To the Minister: I\u2019m sure that there will be many opportunities to respond to questions about energy, which is a vital plank in New Zealand\u2019s economic self-sustainability, and cheap energy is actually something that has allowed New Zealand manufacturing businesses to compete very effectively, even with much larger businesses and much larger countries around the world. So we understand that there\u2019s a risk that\u2019s developed over time that is now manifested with the rapid decline of the Pohokura field and the time that that is taking to have it, essentially, refreshed with additional drilling and maintenance so that it can be brought back online. So the ACT Party understands, to some extent, how we\u2019ve got to this point, but does the Minister agree with the Genesis CEO, who said on Radio New Zealand yesterday, that, now existing gas fields are declining much faster than anticipated, the Government\u2019s ban on oil and gas exploration is becoming an issue with respect to future electricity supply? And would she be able to reassure the House that Government policy, in terms of banning oil and gas exploration, has not contributed in any way to the situation that we find ourselves in? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00224de99a7327de4e25b5ad2f167587fe43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224de99a7327de4e25b5ad2f167587fe43\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019ll address the broad area of security of supply that has been brought up in the last few questions. The National spokesperson asked me, what happens if this happens over a prolonged period of time? So, if we look back at the historical data in terms of what dry years have looked like over the last few decades, we\u2019ve seen an instance in 1959, 1960, 1973, 1974, 1976, and 1977 when you had two consecutive dry years. They are incredibly rare\u2014for us to have more than a dry year. As a proud South Islander, I can talk to the amount of rain that does tend to fall in the island in the winter. What we are seeing is actually a little bit of recharge over the last 24 hours happening in the southern hydro lakes, which I think is something that is of a great relief to everybody. So it is incredibly rare, but we do have a system that is set up like this. This is the system behaving as it should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of what would happen, well set out by the architects of the system, there is what happens in terms of conservation campaigns and what springs into action. I don\u2019t think this should be New Zealand\u2019s long-term future, and neither does our Government. That is precisely why we are addressing the issue of dry year risk by looking at something that has some greater certainty and will stop New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses having to go through this, by looking at what we have to do to address that through a renewable source rather than increasing cost of gas supplies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the decision we made around ending the issuing of new offshore permits, I can give the member reassurance that it is not what lies at the heart of this. The last offshore gas find in New Zealand was in 2020. It\u2019s 21 years since there\u2019s been an economic find of oil or gas in New Zealand. All of our finds have been onshore in that period of time. They haven\u2019t been offshore. We\u2019ve also seen the surrender of many permits that had already been issued for offshore permits in the time since we made the decision. That\u2019s because those fields were shown to be uneconomic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat I say is that it is incredibly important that, as a country, we are planning for the scenario that we simply don\u2019t have those gas reserves there, because that is what the evidence is showing us. We\u2019re finding that the economic reserves simply are not there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002225dcacf38ac344fbbdafa90da8d3551c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225dcacf38ac344fbbdafa90da8d3551c\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister: we hear a lot about the supply side of energy; what work is the Minister doing in the demand side?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022005fd255e5cc49538f52fa44af5b3d0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022005fd255e5cc49538f52fa44af5b3d0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Through the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority, EECA, this is a major focus, as the name on the tin says: that it is about conservation; that it is about reducing energy. We do a lot of work with businesses, with industry, who are very eager to participate in this work, because, actually, energy conservation means less expenditure for those businesses and a way for them to improve the profitability of their businesses. This is an area of a great deal of interest to me. As a Minister, I served as one of the four Ministers, I think, on the International Energy Agency\u2019s conservation working party and doing work globally with fellow Ministers around what needs to happen as we make transitions to 100 percent renewable systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022df929d3b8a254e60a7623a94a4693b4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df929d3b8a254e60a7623a94a4693b4d\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. To the Minister, I now turn to resources. I\u2019ve become aware, from a number of different stakeholders, that they\u2019re very concerned that their access to mineral resources, in particular to quarry resources, has been severely impacted by the National Environmental Standards for Freshwater, which prohibited earthworks and disturbing wetland\u2014a wetland being defined as an area as small as one square metre. I\u2019m interested in what advice the Minister has had about how the National Environmental Standards for Freshwater has affected access to those quarry resources\u2014whether you\u2019re aware that that has held up any projects or added to additional cost\u2014and what discussions you may have had with other Ministers about very quickly modifying that term \u201Cprohibited\u201D or otherwise modifying the National Environmental Standards for Freshwater to allow earthworks in wetlands for infrastructure, to get access to vital resources, minerals like gold and rare earth elements, which we absolutely depend on for manufacturing and construction and infrastructure. Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002284920b9a30324b139528b63b1ac88e96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284920b9a30324b139528b63b1ac88e96\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Also being the Minister of Housing, access to aggregate is something that I\u2019m very well aware of. I\u2019ve had engagement with a number of stakeholders. The Minister for the Environment has been made aware of this, and we\u2019re continuing to look at the issue. In terms of other work happening across Government around the issue of aggregate and resources, this is an issue also that the Infrastructure Commission is turning its attention to, as well as the advice that I\u2019m working with my officials on, about the pathway we need for what is an incredibly ambitious infrastructure programme from a Government that is spending more than has been spent in a generation on infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002228e1d63fed644e2591456ab0818b18c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228e1d63fed644e2591456ab0818b18c0\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E So, to the Minister, I appreciate you are having discussions. This is so urgent there are a number of quarries and other operations in Auckland which have lost an entire construction season because, after they\u2019ve approached their local council\u2014Auckland Council for example\u2014to apply for an earthworks permit on land already consented for their activity, their application was declined. They were told not to put it on the desk, because it could not be accepted by that local authority. This is leading to increased costs. It is leading to disruption in the supply chain. And I ask the Minister how urgently this is being treated and what the time frame is to respond to stakeholders and to give assurance to the infrastructure and construction sectors that this is a priority for the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EImmigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022df4752f4a85245f480f33f982bb56afe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df4752f4a85245f480f33f982bb56afe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to the annual review of immigration, and I call on the chairperson of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022258c48e677384c06ae2dbd77138b3db6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022258c48e677384c06ae2dbd77138b3db6\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Chairperson of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to make a third speech in this debate, this time on the topic of immigration. Thank you for the opportunity. At the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, we heard about New Zealand\u2019s closed borders, and we heard that they\u2019ve had huge challenges for the immigration system. That will come to no surprise to anyone who is listening today. It\u2019s important that we continue responding with flexibility to the unique challenges posed by COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe also heard about New Zealand\u2019s ability to bring people through our managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) system. We know that, over the past 12 months, demand for places in MIQ has certainly been intense. We also heard about the effects of Immigration New Zealand (INZ) officials making changes and standing up new functions and processes to respond to the pandemic, and that the nature of Immigration New Zealand\u2019s work has changed in many ways. We heard that the Government is committed to building a productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy that delivers good jobs, decent working conditions, and fair wages. We heard that the immigration system is incredibly critical to this, and there is work under way to support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe border closure has had a major impact on the immigration system, which is now operating very differently than in the pre-COVID environment. Three offshore visa processing offices have been closed since March 2020. Beijing, Apia, and Suva offices are now operating. There has been a significant reduction in temporary visa applications, particularly visitor visas, which made up over half of all visa applications pre - COVID-19.  Despite the visa volume reductions, Immigration New Zealand\u2019s visa processing capacity is being fully utilised. Significant work remains in the system, and this and the new functions that INZ has absorbed are challenging, complex, and resource intensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe heard that these functions include four in particular: number one, temporary and residence visa applications for 260,000 migrants currently in New Zealand, to ensure they remain lawful and meet workforce needs; number two, partnership applications for eligible offshore applicants; the third point was around new work to process requests for border exemptions and related visas; and the fourth was around managing the significant number of queued offshore applicants due to applicants being unable to travel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a little bit of an overview of some of the key points that we heard during this process. If I could ask a question of the Minister, my question is that, with our border being closed to keep COVID out of our communities, core public services and industries have continued to need people to come across the border to help keep them running. Can the Minister tell us about some of the measures that have been taken to support them through this? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00227015debb7b42403cbb5ac522ed5743b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227015debb7b42403cbb5ac522ed5743b7\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask the Minister: was the priority queue system for skilled migrant category (SMC) residence applications agreed to and signed off by a Minister when it was implemented, and why was this not transparently communicated to applicants until March 2020\u2014effectively, being a secret priority queue for 18 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00227a438f3c5d694d5da912619bea87f039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a438f3c5d694d5da912619bea87f039\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve got a variety of specific questions, so I\u2019ll just get to it in the interests of time. The first is: why is Immigration New Zealand (INZ) working so hard to come down on vulnerable industries\u2014for example, a recent clarification, or should I say rule change, around sleepover hours that need to be paid at $25.50 per hour at a minimum, where they\u2019re traditionally classed as an allowance and paid at the minimum wage? Other industries are allowed to pay their employees allowances, yet the care industry for some reason can\u2019t. This has huge ramifications for the sector, with workers and employers reaching out to me in desperation. This is very important. If the clients suffer\u2014and this is in the mental health sector particularly, and also in aged care\u2014then this is very much on the Minister. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4d859ba1c3643e980c763fc313ff460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4d859ba1c3643e980c763fc313ff460\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from my last question: is it acceptable that a priority queue was established based on income and registration of occupation, and in place for 18 months, without being written into Immigration New Zealand instructions\u2014effectively, operating as a secret queue\u2014until a complaint was lodged with the Ombudsman, forcing officials to make this priority queue official by writing it into instructions? And what is the Minister doing to ensure that Immigration officials are not using other measures that are not transparently communicated to applicants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EFor the period 2019/20, we saw a dramatic increase in the amount of time taken to process skilled migrant category (SMC) applications. Long queues blew out to two years\u2014that\u2019s if a person had been selected in the first place. Lots of people are still stuck in the expression of interest pool that was frozen in early 2020. What does the Minister intend to do about dependent children of residence applicants who are turning 18 and being prevented from undertaking tertiary study due to the cost of international fees, and who can\u2019t work or volunteer or they will not be allowed to gain residence with their parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis is a serious question about these children. Many of them are having to repeat year 13, which they don\u2019t need to do, but they are forced to because there is nothing else they can do, or they\u2019re sitting at home doing nothing. They are starting to display mental health problems. Will the Minister commit to allowing these children to at least work while they await the outcome of their parents\u2019 residence application, without that work deeming them to be non-dependent on their parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u002281617bfff9844d32b2f1dd8a30a17e05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281617bfff9844d32b2f1dd8a30a17e05\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Why has there been a refusal to make any decision on the future of the expressions of interest (EOI) and skilled migrant category system, despite leaving it open to people to submit further EOIs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAnd, separately, why has the minimum salary for the work-to-residence been raised from $55k to $79k, when these employers have already proven, through the accreditation process, that they struggle to find local workers? Why are we punishing them further, to the point where they may not be able to hire anybody?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8252437a18c489aaf512eeec14040b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8252437a18c489aaf512eeec14040b8\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Like Dr Megan Woods, I will be listening to some of the questions during the debate and bunching them up for efficiency. Can I just note the context in which we are in at the moment. Obviously, everyone knows about COVID. But between 20 March of last year and 4 May of this year, there have been 226,819 arrivals at our border; for the subsequent time the previous year, the usual arrivals of people into New Zealand were 7 million. So the effect of closing our border means we do have very constrained arrivals into New Zealand. We know the effect of that. We are, obviously, trying to manage that, and channelling questions that, I think, may come within the next 20 or so minutes, we understand that the border restrictions over that period of time have created difficulties for numbers of people who are unable to enter the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAddressing the question from my colleague Jamie Strange, in terms of industries who still require people to come into New Zealand, that is, obviously, difficult when there are only 226,000-odd people able to come into the country, but we have been able to give border exceptions for those with critical skills; I understand, to about, roughly 17,000 people\u2014so whether that be by a border exception where individuals apply, roughly about 10,000 or 11,000; by class exception, where sectors are applying, roughly 7,000 through that. The types of sectors that we are talking about are heavily skewed towards the private industries, and I would like to reinforce that, given the perception that some have tried to create: that that is not necessarily those who are getting exceptions from officials under the criteria that exists at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAddressing the question from Erica Stanford around the issue of the Ombudsman and the priority queue: no, it is not acceptable, and that is why the Ombudsman ruled in the way that he did. I have asked officials to review that situation to understand how it came about, because I was not the Minister at the time and to ensure that that does not happen again. I think the fact that the Ombudsman made it quite clear that a decision was made and not necessarily brought to the attention of the Minister at the time is an issue. Again, I have asked officials to report back to me about the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EMr McDowall raised an issue around sleepover rates, which I want to make sure I address. We are working on that issue with Health. My understanding is that it is an unintended consequence of the application of wage rules. So if he is hearing concern from people that he is speaking to, I think that might be valid. But officials, with the assistance of Health, are dealing with that at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of questions about the skilled migrant category (SMC) and wait times. There has been an unprecedented demand, well above forecast, for the SMC, and we have put a bit of a perfect storm in terms of some of the processing. I would add that those SMC applications are not rubber-stamps; they are a very involved process where we have to make sure that the assessment of the officials to the criteria is done and that it is done thoroughly. So, I think, the perception that these things are easy to process is one that we want to make sure that we dispel, but also, given COVID, there have been issues with being able to have staff available to process, which also hasn\u2019t assisted issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022663d6312d848470e840a57755b40fb9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022663d6312d848470e840a57755b40fb9a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. So I am interested in getting some answers on the discrimination that disabled people face within our immigration system. I wanted to ask about the rationale for continuing this policy despite disabled people being quite clear that the ongoing discrimination for people to access residency class visas has prevented them from fully participating in our society, and particularly during the pandemic in this case, and also with the discrimination that people living with HIV face within our immigration system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EDespite the previous National Government and subsequent Governments recognising that discrimination because of HIV is no longer fit for purpose, it continues. So I\u2019m interested in hearing the Minister\u2019s rationale\u2014despite granting residency to people like Juliana Carvalho, who put a petition that garnered tens of thousands of signatures, there has been no policy change and I\u2019m wondering what the rationale has been to continue down this path so far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002216be9e00ea1c4bfcbd4fea7888953c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216be9e00ea1c4bfcbd4fea7888953c05\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister didn\u2019t answer my question earlier, and I\u2019m keen to get an answer because this is important\u2014what does he intend to do about the dependent children of resident applicants who are turning 18 and who are prevented from studying, working, or even volunteering for fear of not being able to come in under their parents\u2019 residency application and not being able to afford tertiary study? That\u2019s the question he has not answered, and I would like a response because there are thousands of children out there who are affected by this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe Minister just told us, in his previous answer, that he has to be very careful around the applications that are coming in; they have to do be done properly. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister why it is that, between 2018 and 2019, the caseload of an officer processing residence applications was 52 cases, in 2019-20 it dropped to 36, it currently sits at 25 cases on their books at one time. That is a massive productivity drop. I\u2019d also like to ask him why it was that in 2019-20, 90 percent of skilled migrant category cases were finalised in 15 months, in 2018-19 that was 19, and now we\u2019re at 24, so you\u2019ve gone from 9 to 15 to 24, and the caseload of the officers has dropped dramatically as well. And has this got anything to do with the fact that, in the 2019-20 year, 55 percent of staff working in the residence application branch left?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd73d7dffb3d424a8d74670a5bfd6c3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd73d7dffb3d424a8d74670a5bfd6c3e\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I just want to take a moment to say thank you to the Minister for addressing the question on sleepover hours and rates\u2014don\u2019t get used to it, though. So, actually, further to that, I would like a little bit more clarification, if possible, as to if that decision will be reversed and when we can expect that, because I know the stakeholders that have reached out to me would like an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThe next question I have is evidently employers\u2014this is a new thing\u2014that have more than six people on work visas now need to pay all of their staff the minimum wage plus 10 percent. I\u2019ve just spoken to someone\u2014a business owner\u2014who has calculated that this will cost him $830,000 per year, and this cost will be passed on to his clients. That\u2019s no good for anybody. And it\u2019s the same with a hospitality client: one reached out to me, they\u2019ve got 300 staff, and even the dishwasher will need to be paid $22 an hour now, and this is going to have a big effect on their bottom line and therefore the cost they pass on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e688c71b8b17437484232309987f46cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e688c71b8b17437484232309987f46cd\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister: why do visa waiver country partners\u2014sorry, let me start the question again. What is the logic or reasoning behind the decision to mean that New Zealand citizens or residents have to travel to fetch their partners from non-visa waiver countries, whereas those from visa waiver countries get to travel to New Zealand without their partners? And will he look at changing this policy so that New Zealand citizens and residents can be with their loved ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I\u2019ll continue, because it looks like the Minister\u2019s just taking some advice. Is the Minister considering extending\u2014under the generous powers that he\u2019s been granted for the next two years\u2014the post-study work visas for those holders who\u2019ve been trapped offshore in early 2020, and are unable to use their visas once the borders reopen? Or is it the case that, when those visas expire, the holder will not have the opportunity to return to New Zealand when the borders open, despite the significant investment they\u2019ve made into education here? I will carry on\u2014oh, no, I\u2019ll sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab1d7c53f0a34608aee68e9e1202ff14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab1d7c53f0a34608aee68e9e1202ff14\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Following from the questions of the member to my right, I\u2019m also interested in hearing about the people who were stranded overseas and their visas have now expired\u2014I\u2019m thinking of post-study work visas, thinking of people who may have a valid working holiday visa who were due to come and are now still trapped overseas, particularly during the period that we\u2019re reviewing; thinking what the rationale has been for perhaps not using those powers in the past, and whether the Minister could give some indication around whether that may change in terms of giving some assurances to post-study work visa holders here. And, more broadly, for those that are here, our communities onshore\u2014many who are feeling a bit despondent about the fact that some investors are easily able to access residency class visas while they seem to have very few pathways\u2014whether there\u2019d be any reviews based on what has happened during the past year, around the inequities that exist for our working class migrants compared to our investor category migrants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00225559fd3a14bf42aeaffbd6847ec6db0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225559fd3a14bf42aeaffbd6847ec6db0d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I\u2019ll try and deal with some of those questions\u2014I might just deal with the final question first. I think there\u2019s been a bit of misreporting about how some of the people who have come in as investors have found their way to residency. If we are talking about the same reporting, the individuals concerned came in under a border exception because their skills were not readily available. When they came into New Zealand, I understand they already had active applications for investor category type visas and, as soon as they come to the country, those can be processed. So the way that that story was framed, I believe, didn\u2019t necessary reflect the situation with those individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI might go to the question that was first raised. The border settings and the criteria always have had a test for acceptable standard of health. I don\u2019t think I should go into particular cases, but if people who are applying for visas don\u2019t meet the criteria of having acceptable levels of health and would place burden on the New Zealand health system\u2014for some time that test has always been part of the visa application process. Anyone who has had any interaction with an Associate Minister of Immigration would have argued the case for someone at some stage and sometimes those are able to be done on other grounds, primarily humanitarian.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EMr McDowall, the new systems and the new rates, I believe, pertain to what I would call fourth form economics. If the skills aren\u2019t available in New Zealand and they are skills that are in high demand, then paying the absolute minimum wage is not what this is about. We\u2019ve been very up front with sectors\u2014and those sectors that have traditionally relied on migrant labour\u2014about the new system that will come into place, which will be employer and job led, not necessarily migrant led. So we can match skilled migrant labour to jobs that actually exist and jobs that are paying a wage or a salary that is actually going to let them support themselves while they are in New Zealand. So, as we have said for some time, the days of open slather, high-volume, low-skill, low-wage immigration needs to be reset, and we\u2019ll have some more news about that very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI think, to go towards the question that Erica Stanford reinforced\u2014I believe those children do have options if they wanted to separate themselves from their parent\u2019s visas and apply as individuals now that they have become 18 and adults\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bff9b3a25a84b6fae8c04ba3733c641\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: How are they going to do that without tertiary education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfd62fde9464daeb20c1b59aab3fb27\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they can apply to do that. And that, if they do that, would enable them to take up tertiary study under domestic settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00227943d43198f7477ea305b915625003b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227943d43198f7477ea305b915625003b4\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, just to reiterate, I would like to know if that clarification will be reversed soon and what kind of time frame we will be expecting\u2014that\u2019s regarding the sleepover rates. The second question is: why has the Minister made a habit of granting extensions very much at the last minute, creating a great deal of uncertainty for migrants, and was it intentional, to weed out the people who had made plans to leave, so that they couldn\u2019t get refunds? So that\u2019s one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESecondly, why is Immigration New Zealand shooting themselves in the foot again and again with their decisions, in this case with a skilled migrant category queue, especially with the paused expression of interest queue, and again with the employer accreditation window? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002244a5b17a39ff44969a45e706e1d472c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244a5b17a39ff44969a45e706e1d472c6\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I wanted to touch on one of the previous answers by the Minister, talking about high-volume, low-skilled migration that is not sustainable. I just wanted to get a better understanding of how the Minister defines low skill, because a lot of our migrant communities, many of whom are essential workers and do things that I would consider essential to our society, such as keeping our supermarkets running and keeping our many industries that ran during the lockdown, I would consider them skilled. So the fact that we have attached the definition of being high skilled to salaries comes with a lot of barriers for migrant communities. I\u2019m interested to hear how the Minister defines low skills and what does that hold for the future of our immigration system in relation to how that definition\u2019s being currently applied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00221366b75f5c644d949a0c26d56f87993b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221366b75f5c644d949a0c26d56f87993b\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Just to address Mr McDowall\u2019s question, we\u2019d like to address that as soon as we possibly can; so it\u2019s not something that we\u2019ll be sitting on. To the second question, we are always trying to balance the needs of businesses that might be employing the likes of working holiday visa holders and also the domestic labour market and making sure that there are opportunities available for New Zealanders to take jobs that some of those working holiday visa holders might be able to take up if those jobs are available, instead of just allowing some of those companies or employers to default to working holiday visas, because it\u2019s what they have done in the past. I think, when you look at the totality of some of the work that we\u2019ve done across the employment space, the fact that we are now having a situation, you know, 10 to 12 months after COVID hit, where we\u2019ve got unemployment decreasing, we\u2019ve done everything that we possibly can to get New Zealanders into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EGoing to Mr Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s question, it is more about making sure that we\u2019re taking every opportunity to upskill and make sure that we\u2019ve got wages and conditions here in New Zealand for New Zealanders, to make sure that training is done by sectors, and that they have serious conversations about wages and conditions, which we think is well overdue. I think there has been a long period of high-volume immigration, which has suppressed the likes of wages, has put off serious investment that some sectors should have taken a long time ago, and, again, affected the conditions of some of the sectors involved\u2014so, again, working with the likes of some of the changes that Mr Hipkins has made over the last three years, making sure that we\u2019ve got better skills matches to jobs that are available and getting New Zealanders into those skills and wages, and ensuring that if there are still remaining skill gaps we continue to use immigration as that lever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022acb573138694448ab89f63407d3c1748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acb573138694448ab89f63407d3c1748\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to go back to these children of the residence visa applicants who are turning 18 and can\u2019t do anything, because I thought it was very interesting the Minister\u2019s last response. I want to clarify: is the Minister seriously saying that he believes that the thousands of 18-year-olds in this country who are part of their family\u2019s residence application should, with no experience, no education, split from their parents\u2019 application, get a job on an essential skills work visa\u2014if they\u2019d even get a job that would make immigration give them a work visa. And then how on earth would they ever get residence with no education, being an 18-year-old leaving school with no skills, no experience, and no education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThat is a ridiculous and preposterous argument, and what he\u2019s basically saying to these families is that their children have to sit and rot for years and do absolutely nothing, which is terrible for their mental health and terrible for their lives, because the real risk is that, if they go out and work\u2014if they\u2019d even be granted a work visa, which is preposterous\u2014it\u2019s very, very unlikely they would ever get residence, given that they don\u2019t have an education and would never be able to get up to a point where they could get residence, which would mean they would have to return home while their parents were here, effectively splitting up migrant families, which this Minister loves to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022227e8347dd834607a9fbbcf88aec0212\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022227e8347dd834607a9fbbcf88aec0212\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Following on the issue of lack of pathways for residency, whether it\u2019s young people or people who don\u2019t meet the salary criteria, I recognise that the Minister in the chair, Kris Faafoi, mentioned the need to grow skills locally, and I think everyone in this House would support that notion but, I think, also acknowledging that that may take some time and, in the meanwhile, we do have a workforce that is currently on temporary visas and does not have access to fully participate in society. So, seeing as in the period that we\u2019re reviewing, we know that there\u2019s a large portion of that workforce that still depends on migrant communities and that those gaps may not be filled for some years, would it not make sense for these communities to be able to access residency class visas, to be upskilled, and, as we fill those skills locally, acknowledging that it actually may take some years, because those gaps may well not be filled in six months; meanwhile, the workforce here is suffering with uncertainty and without the ability to access State support services. If we were to go back to alert level 3 or 4, that migrant workforce is always more at risk of COVID-19 due to the lack of support. So I\u2019m interested in knowing what the rationale is for keeping these people on temporary visas for such a long time when they would fill the gaps of skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00223b63749f54ba455fb4b22e1d8be75809\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b63749f54ba455fb4b22e1d8be75809\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. If the processing time for the skilled migrant applications is now up to two years or longer, why do immigration rules only allow applicants to extend work visas without labour market tests for 18 months? And, secondly, lawyers and advisers around the country are getting in touch with me saying they\u2019re getting five or up to 10 calls a day from migrants expressing interest in shifting to Canada. So is the Minister happy with skilled migrants here in New Zealand who are just stuck in the queue moving and taking their skills to Canada?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1f78e2f520b424e8ea71e1cf49bc74d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1f78e2f520b424e8ea71e1cf49bc74d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I might just deal with a couple of questions that have been raised, because there is an assumption that is loaded into some of the questions that, if people are in the skilled migrant category (SMC) queue, they will definitely be granted residence. That is not a certainty. And, as I say, I would push against the statement that some of these people who are turning 18 have no options; they do. I\u2019m sure some of them know that, and they have been reflected by me already in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo, as a review of the SMC category, we will make sure that we address some of the long-term issues that face the skill shortages in our economy. What we have found is that there was an increase in demand or an amount of demand way ahead of forecast, which has also, as I said, contributed to some of the delays into processing and also to the queue becoming so large. As we look at the settings for the SMC going forward, whether or not we\u2019ve got those in the right place is one of those things we are currently looking at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECorrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00228f1fda3cfbad424eb37c60ab2321e415\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f1fda3cfbad424eb37c60ab2321e415\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: We now move to the Corrections annual review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022954d621e2300448cb4e280a7bc84f090\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022954d621e2300448cb4e280a7bc84f090\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The Justice Committee reported back to the House on annual reviews in the justice sector in March 2021. We held a hearing with the chief executive of the Department of Corrections, which is Jeremy Lightfoot, and officials on 18 February of this year. The committee heard a range of issues, but the three main ones that we heard were H\u014Dkai Rangi, the new departmental strategy; the impact of COVID-19 on Corrections\u2019 work and their response to the pandemic; and also the wider management of people in the corrections system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn relation to the H\u014Dkai Rangi strategy, the committee heard that since the strategy has been launched in 2019, it\u2019s been designed to improve outcomes for M\u0101ori and wh\u0101nau, and to try and address the significant overrepresentation of M\u0101ori in the corrections system. We heard how H\u014Dkai Rangi had been operating and, in particular, the committee was very interested to hear about the M\u0101ori Pathways programme. This is a key part of H\u014Dkai Rangi. It\u2019s a four-year programme with projects that are co-designed with iwi and with wh\u0101nau, and results in the programme jointly are assessed by both iwi M\u0101ori and the Crown. We also learnt that the department has been working with iwi, and they gave examples of Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto and Ng\u0101ti Raukawa and the working alongside of the Waikato District Health Board to design and deliver a service for the Waikeria mental health and addiction service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the next main area I will touch upon is the general management of people in the corrections system. In 2018, the Government announced the bold goal of reducing the prison population by 30 percent over the 15 years. It was interesting to note that in 2019 to 2020, the total prison population had reduced for a third year consecutively, as at June 2020. However, it was interesting to note that the prison forecasts still projected gross growth in that space, and so the department responded to those questions from committee members to particularly look at the peak of remand population at 39 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe committee heard in terms of a range of measures that have been used to address this, and one of those was EM bail, or electronic monitoring on bail, which is a form of monitoring people outside of prison. The Corrections annual report for 2019-20 noted that the number of EM bail applications received had increased by 35 percent over the last two years and that they expected further growth in that space. The committee also heard about community-based sentences and how they were operating over the past year, and we were told that about 28,000 people were being managed on sentence in the community. We also heard about reducing reoffending and recidivism, and some of the key areas in that space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe last area I\u2019ll touch upon is that committee members discussed prisoner assaults. The chief executive told the committee that the increase in no-injury assaults was due to the change in culture in the department, where the staff have been encouraged to report early and in a preventative way to reduce any instances of violent behaviour. I note that committee members will be interested to ask questions of the Minister and I therefore allow those questions to take part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00223f78eef2214f4969a422a97f134fa55a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f78eef2214f4969a422a97f134fa55a\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to take part in this debate on the annual review of the Department of Corrections. I\u2019ve got a range of issues that I\u2019d like to ask questions of the Minister over, and the first one to touch on is the issue that Ginny Andersen, the previous speaker, just briefly touched on at the end, which is around the number of prisoner assaults. What we\u2019ve seen under this Government and under Kelvin Davis\u2019 leadership has been a 92 percent increase in prisoner assaults, and a 92 percent increase in assaults on corrections officers is something which I believe is incredibly unacceptable. In my view, none of our corrections officers deserves that treatment when they go to work, and it\u2019s something which is definitely not part of their job description. My question is: what actions is the Minister taking to address this growing problem in our prisons? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWell, the question is what action is he taking regarding the increase in prisoner assaults, because not only have we seen an increase in prisoners on corrections officers, which has increased by 92 percent, but we have also seen an increase in assaults of prisoner on prisoner, which is also seriously concerning. We\u2019ve also seen an 80 percent increase in the number of corrections officers requiring medical treatment following assaults in our prisons. The question is: what action is the Minister taking to address these issues? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWhen we had corrections before the committee, we heard that the Minister has now started receiving monthly briefings. Well, when did those monthly briefings begin? If it\u2019s true that they\u2019ve only just started happening this year, why did it take the Minister over three years of being in the portfolio to start receiving regular briefings on the number of assaults which happen in our prisons? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022 data-id=\u0022653919efbd2742ad8b13e67766414bd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022653919efbd2742ad8b13e67766414bd7\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My question is in the same line as Simeon\u2019s. The question is why have the assaults on corrections officers increased but our population in the prisons has decreased, because with the 90 percent, you would expect to see possibly less assaults happening with less prisoners, but the assaults are increasing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003EThe other question that at this stage I want to ask also is: what is he going to do about the gang problems within prisons? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd12e634da274bd3b31672bba16ed2e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd12e634da274bd3b31672bba16ed2e0\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I was going to allow the questions to accrue because we are running out of time, but that\u2019s fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELook, first of all, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the hard work that all of our corrections officers do. There\u2019s some 10,000 staff. They work in one of the most difficult and dangerous environments in the country. They go to work every day and, I agree, they do not expect, and no one should expect, to be assaulted on the job. Sadly, it is part of the nature of the environment they work in, but that is not acceptable. No assault is acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t expect anybody to get away with assaulting a corrections officer. I expect everybody who assaults a corrections officer to be held to account, and I just want to take the opportunity to thank all of our corrections officers for the wonderful work they do in helping to keep New Zealand safe. So, in the annual review, the chief executive, Jeremy Lightfoot, I believe addressed these questions very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt is really important to note that serious assaults have remained static for the last four or five years, so those are the worst of the worst. I would rather see those numbers drop, obviously. I don\u2019t want to see or hear or have any reports of any corrections officer being seriously assaulted\u2014I don\u2019t want to hear any reports of them being assaulted at all. It is important to note, though, that there are a number of reasons that we\u2019re seeing increased violence in our prisons. One is the increased number of gang members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENow, when I was in Opposition, the prison population was sky-rocketing. I said at the time that all we do when we allow the prison population to grow is allow gangs to recruit more\u2014it was, basically, university for gangs. That was one of the reasons why we said, as a Government, that one of our goals is to safely reduce the prison population. We couldn\u2019t financially afford to keep building American-style mega-prisons every three years but, socially, we could not allow that to happen. So we cannot dissociate the growth in gang members in prisons from the growth of gang members out in the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe second point is the increase in meth out in the communities. We know that the growth of meth in the communities is sky-rocketing, and we can\u2019t expect it not to have an impact on what is going on in prisons because we know that 90 percent of people in prisons, over the course of their lives, have a drug and alcohol or a mental health issue. So for those people who are on meth out in the communities, that will also flow on into their behaviour in prisons and it impacts on the way they behave there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAlso, the remand population is growing. It is up at around about 37 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b53e8dced6224e3c934f7e89da1d8431\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing about it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f65656655447b7a9ce67aead49d297\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Now, anybody who knows prisons knows that those people on remand, they\u2019re a lot more agitated, and there is less certainty for them as compared to those who are sentenced. So we are trying to get the remand population down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe member asks what we are doing about it. Well, as we know, there have been a number of strategies put in place over the last few years to help to address this. There have been, for example, stab-resistant vests deployed. There is a whole lot of training that has gone on, and there have been a number of things, but also unions and Corrections have been working together on a plan. The plan has been put in front of me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063be8688d4e42ec9a8f27dad5de8f48\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the plan? Tell us the plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add9fefe00da4c8f86b79501a2045226\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the plan is here. It has been put in front of me. I\u2019d like to congratulate both Corrections and the unions for working together on that plan, because it is important that unions and Corrections do work together to address these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ECan I just touch on a number of other things, as well. First of all, I just want to congratulate, again, Corrections on the work they have done throughout COVID. Now, it is a testimony to the fact that COVID did not grab hold in our prisons. If you look to overseas jurisdictions, there were a number that had COVID. The work that our corrections system did to prevent\u2014there was a case of COVID in the prisons, but it didn\u2019t spread because of the work that Corrections had done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EH\u014Dkai Rangi is on track to achieve our short-term actions. It is an ambitious strategy to effect real intergenerational change. It is about working in true partnership between the Crown and M\u0101ori, and it\u2019s something that we need to continue to support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u002216447f6e7deb48a9b657c41c4f80d88f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216447f6e7deb48a9b657c41c4f80d88f\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to acknowledge the Minister of Corrections in his last contribution for touching on some of the themes that are of grave concern to the Green Party, which are the excessive mental health issues, the drug and alcohol addictions issues, and the overpopulation that we see in our prison populations. I do want to acknowledge also that we\u2019ve now had the past chief scientist of the Prime Minister last term, Dr Gluckman, and we\u2019ve had High Court and Court of Appeal judges call imprisonment a failed model\u2014in particular, when it comes to the myth of deterrence of crime. So I do want us to hold the evidence-based approach central to our policy making this term in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIf we hold that imprisonment has failed to keep our communities safe and then we move on to what has come out in the very recent past in terms of literal abuse being committed in our prisons by this already failed system, we have findings of inhumane treatment in our women\u2019s prison, we had on Mother\u2019s Day revelations of women being chained as they give birth, we have the Waikeria Prison protest that was based on some of the inhumane conditions that have been found, and we have the idea that crime has not come down, nobody is being kept safe. The failure there being rehabilitation, being the step that our corrections system needs to take to move us to a place where, like the Nordic countries and like Scandinavian models, we can minimise imprisonment as a model and we can move to the things that we know actually work, those being mental health treatment, drug and alcohol treatment, literacy programmes, and systems that apply across the nation in a standardised way and in an evidence-based way that will actually bring down recidivism and will bring down issues with safety in our communities but will actually move away from imprisonment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI know that this Minister can\u2019t change the law when it comes to imprisonment, but I also know that corrections are where rehabilitative measures have to be first implemented so that we can keep communities safe and ensure abuse stops. So what measures are being taken in that regard to move New Zealand away from this failed system while we still have to abide by it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00220d1ef9c2d4b5438ca8ef68a7f56f2d36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d1ef9c2d4b5438ca8ef68a7f56f2d36\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E A point of order, first, Madam Chairperson. The Minister quoted from an official document previously regarding the plan for addressing the prison violence. Under Standing Order 386, I request the Minister to table that document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaeeb168964f4ba99b5295fb00a87658\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The request is to table the document that the Minister referred to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ef3f00c62546608865fd313a24d5d5\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Just in reference to that, this is a draft of the plan. So I believe I\u2019ve been advised that we can provide a finalised version when it\u2019s ready. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d2c260c33240bfb508990bc0eaf767\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson. The Standing Order doesn\u2019t have anything to do with whether it\u2019s a draft or a final document. The requirement is that if the Minister uses that document, I can request that it be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c86060dd20084b588487abf2de221ed1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Standing Order 386, in terms of documents quoted by a Minister\u2014this document actually states that it is in confidence. The Minister actually said that there is a plan, but he didn\u2019t actually quote from the document. I can actually see the document. It states that it is a confidential document. So Standing Order 386 says that the Minister is able not to table it because it is confidential. It is a confidential document, and also the Minister did not quote from the document; he referred to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33f858367bd47f78957e031e21ad129\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your ruling on that matter. I would like to take up the Minister\u2019s offer for him to provide a final copy as soon as that is provided, because I think this is something which is of enormous importance to New Zealanders\u2014the amount of violence. I\u2019d like the Minister to please answer to the House when that final document will actually be made available so that we have some idea around the time frame that this issue is actually being addressed in a serious manner and in a timely manner, because from my understanding, he only just asked for monthly briefings on assaults in prisons in February this year\u2014in February this year was the first month, in his three and a bit years as Minister. I find that absolutely shocking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI now just want to touch on the issue of rehabilitation, and we heard the Minister talk there about 90 percent of prisoners having drug and alcohol or mental health addiction needs. Under written question No. 3322, I have figures which have been released to me which show that in 2017-18, 4,075 people in prison received drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes or were part of them. That dropped to 1,180 in the 2019-20 year\u2014so about 25 percent of the 2017-18 year. That\u2019s a 75 percent drop\u2014a massive drop\u2014in the amount of people receiving drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes. He\u2019s identified the problem of the number of people in prison needing assistance, but the number of people getting help is only a quarter. Why is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002225351d3a3d854c7d86cc8851420346f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225351d3a3d854c7d86cc8851420346f2\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s quite simple. There\u2019s a number of those rehabilitation programmes that weren\u2019t effective, so I\u2019d much rather spend money on those programmes that are the most effective, instead of just trying to look like we\u2019re doing things that aren\u2019t effective. If I can just go through how effective, these are some of the results\u2014these are some of the results of what\u2019s happened in Corrections over the last three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ERemember, the 2017 justice sector projections said that the prison population at this point in time was going to be over 13,000. Remember that figure, everybody: 13,000. As of last Thursday, the prison population was 8,422\u20144,500 fewer people in prison than would\u2019ve been if National, ACT, and the M\u0101ori Party had still been in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere are over 800 fewer M\u0101ori in prison. He wants to know, \u201CWhere\u2019s the evidence of what\u2019s been effective?\u201D Let me just talk about the results: over 800 fewer M\u0101ori are in prison today compared to March of 2018. We used to be the sixth-most incarcerated nation in the world; we have improved our position by six places. The M\u0101ori imprisonment rate was 716 per 100,000 people. It has dropped down to 533 per 100,000\u2014still way too high. The reconviction and the reimprisonment rates have dropped by 5 percent and 4 percent respectively. What Corrections is doing, thanks to the hard-working men and women in Corrections, is making New Zealand safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENow, I know Simeon Brown doesn\u2019t want to hear that, because his philosophy is just to build more prisons and fill them up. He saw those justice sector predictions, those justice sector forecasts, as a target. All he wanted to do was meet his target, fill them up, and build a new prison every three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis is the Government that said we have to do things differently\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d213d221de1048768eeb9c7b2d309c3c\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re the Minister\u2014take some responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db68c8d2ccba4e62b4cc6fb339f5efdb\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we have done them differently. Yeah, I\u2019ll take responsibility\u2014responsibility for the reduced prison population and making New Zealand a safer country. I will not take responsibility for the danger that they were going to put New Zealanders in. Imagine if they had had their way\u2014we wouldn\u2019t have had the beds that we had to cater for those 13,000. We would\u2019ve had not just complete double-bunking; probably triple-bunking. Imagine the tension in the prisons because of their failed policies, which we\u2019ve turned around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a07c56c28d1f4c05880cddf5927a9ca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a07c56c28d1f4c05880cddf5927a9ca8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Corrections is a one-trick pony. All he\u2019s interested in talking about is the prison population. He doesn\u2019t want to talk about the number of assaults which are taking place against corrections officers. He doesn\u2019t want to talk about what\u2019s happening around the drop in the number of people getting rehabilitation in our prisons. He only wants to talk about the drop in prison numbers, and he doesn\u2019t want to talk about the fact that, actually, what we should be aiming for is a reduction in crime and a reduction in the number of victims of crime. That needs to be the number one issue that the criminal justice sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a041501e33f04c2ab2885bb1fcdd0267\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t mentioned the word \u201Cvictim\u201D once. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6cda0913855437f9fc013be0ccc6e33\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And he hasn\u2019t talked about victims\u2014absolutely. He hasn\u2019t referred to victims at all through the contribution that he\u2019s made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got another question. I\u2019d like to ask about the Waikeria Prison riot. Will the Minister confirm to the committee whether this was a riot or whether it was a prisoner disorder event? Was it a riot or was it a prisoner disorder event, and, if so, can he please define \u201Cprisoner disorder event\u201D to the committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223722e69a7b40482d9f9b49afe6e715b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223722e69a7b40482d9f9b49afe6e715b6\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Quite quickly on that, the Department of Corrections framework said it was a present disorder event, but it was a riot. It was a riot. Those men climbed up on the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022effb5c05e0534238b97da270e242bc00\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: It was a riot\u2014oh, that\u2019s news. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15afb4ed22748428cfdc8b980179f48\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not news to anybody. It was a riot, and I just want to thank the hard-working corrections officers who put their lives at risk to calm down that situation. There was an objective to resolve it without loss of life or injury and that was achieved. I\u2019d like to thank those brave corrections men and women. There are some real heroes amongst them, and they need to be totally acknowledged for the great work that they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002293e0367b149948aa8d7b3ea74bec09c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293e0367b149948aa8d7b3ea74bec09c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the M\u0101ori Development portfolio, given the interests of time for the annual debates. I call on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee chairperson, T\u0101mati Coffey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00229cd6b981d8af4f56868a20fcfc6c34b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cd6b981d8af4f56868a20fcfc6c34b4\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Chairperson of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The M\u0101ori Affairs Committee did indeed conduct the annual review of the Ministry of M\u0101ori Development, otherwise known as Te Puni K\u014Dkiri (TPK), which has been established to advise the Government on all policies and issues affecting M\u0101ori. It\u2019s also in charge of improving achievement in several other areas, including training and employment, education, economic development, and also health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EIn terms of the things that we covered off during our annual review hearing, we did hear the full gamut of things\u2014notably, the financial performance of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, of which they\u2019ve had an increase in their budget\u2014mainly because of COVID-19 and what was experienced last year, and, hopefully, the Minister will be able to talk us through some of the innovative things that happened as everybody was trying to deal with the impacts of a closed border and COVID-19. Over and above that, we covered off another look at the strategic direction of TPK. We looked into how TPK was supporting M\u0101ori into housing, including utilising the framework called M\u0101ori and Iwi Housing Innovation. So, hopefully, we\u2019ll hear a bit about that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWe heard about how TPK had expanded the coverage of Wh\u0101nau Ora, because that was quite an interesting change in what traditionally has been the Wh\u0101nau Ora approach. In this case, we heard how TPK was partnering with hap\u016B and iwi to enable decision making within local communities to support local aspirations and outcomes. We heard about the four trial sites: Te Tihi o Ruahine Wh\u0101nau Ora Alliance, Te Whare Maire o Tapuwae Charitable Trust, the Huria Trust in Tauranga, and the Raukawa Settlement Trust as well. We also heard about the Whenua M\u0101ori Programme, noting that TPK and the Ministry of Justice did receive a joint Budget bid in Budget 2019 to deliver the Whenua M\u0101ori Programme, with the aim of connecting M\u0101ori to their whenua and providing M\u0101ori land owners with tools to govern, to manage, to succeed to, and to develop their land. We also heard about the targeted legislative reform of Te Ture Whenua Maori Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWe heard in the annual review hearing about M\u0101ori in STEM education\u2014so making sure that we\u2019re supporting M\u0101ori into science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, particularly with a focus on information technology\u2014and we also heard about the Indigenous Collaboration Arrangement that New Zealand and Australia have signed up to, to progress M\u0101ori economic aspirations. We asked about the programme and the outcomes so far, and we heard great things. In terms of a procurement target for M\u0101ori business, that was the discussion for a bit of our meeting. We heard that 5 percent is the starting point and that TPK would review its success in 2022, with a consideration about potentially raising that target up to 10 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo, as with many of the other hearings that we heard about earlier on today, one of the biggest and most immediate responses that we had to talk about and to deal with in the last year in terms of TPK was, obviously, the response to COVID-19. So, hopefully, the Minister can talk to us about how TPK worked with various iwi and M\u0101ori communities in that immediate response period to COVID-19. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00226c399dfdb7574fdea587974ab4fde008\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c399dfdb7574fdea587974ab4fde008\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development for being here this evening to take these questions. We do appreciate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EMy first question really is around the status of the He Puapua report. The Government received this report back in December 2019, and then on 7 April, he received a draft Cabinet paper on the implementation plan for the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. My questions are: when is he planning to take the paper to Cabinet, why has he sat on it for a month, and has he consulted with his colleagues about the paper? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022c37c5ebfc1bb45748be1707539652421\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c37c5ebfc1bb45748be1707539652421\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I\u2019d like to take a short call on the annual review debate. I want to begin by acknowledging our brothers and sisters in Government, as I know that they are trying to get the best outcome that they can for our people. Their success in getting the M\u0101ori Health Authority over the line proves this. However, the way in which they have treated Budget allocations for M\u0101ori housing shows that even though there are 15 M\u0101ori MPs in Labour, they still struggle to get the support for our people\u2019s priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ETheir colleague the housing Minister is not even wanting to recognise the deep housing plight our people suffer. There is clearly a disconnect between what the M\u0101ori and the Government want and what its senior civil servants and many of its P\u0101keh\u0101 Ministers want. As we look ahead to the Budget next week, Te Paati M\u0101ori will be keeping an eye\u2014a close eye\u2014on if the Government is delivering for tangata whenua. In last year\u2019s Budget, we only saw 0.3 percent of all funding allocated towards targeted M\u0101ori spending. That is simply not good enough, and it\u2019s embarrassing. The Crown must recognise that tangata whenua have our own solutions for our own problems. The best thing they can do is to devolve thunder and power to us so that we can get on with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIn this Budget, our people expect revolutionary change. We expect M\u0101ori procurement to wh\u0101nau first at 25 percent for all Government contracts\u2014far more than the measly 5 percent this Government has agreed to. We expect Wh\u0101nau Ora to be properly resourced and for all of its funding to go to the commissioning agencies and not to Crown agencies. We expect to see the M\u0101ori Health Authority in control of its entirety for the per capita M\u0101ori health spend: 20 percent to recognise inequities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWe expect to see the cancer screening age for cancers such as bowel cancer reduced by 10 years for M\u0101ori. We expect to see guaranteed pay equity for M\u0101ori nurses and teachers, and a minimum wage immediately raised to $25 per hour, with an annual increase to keep up the cost of living increase. We expect to see baseline benefits doubled, benefits individualised, and sanctions and penalties removed. We expect a dedicated M\u0101ori housing plan, financial support for home loans, and increased funding for papak\u0101inga development. In the te reo sector, we expect the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai funding to be doubled to $28 million, $40 million invested into kaiako developing their reo, and $50 million for the establishment of a M\u0101ori standards authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIn the environment space, we expect to see $1 billion to establish our P\u016Bngao Auaha fund for M\u0101ori-owned community energy projects, and $300 million for our M\u0101tai Ahuwhenua innovation and support fund to support M\u0101ori farmers into regenerative farming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThese are some of the many policies and funding priorities that our people on the ground are calling for. Many of our people are in a desperate situation, and it\u2019s about time Government recognised that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIt is also important to note that it\u2019s not just about how much money is allocated here and there; it must also be about the quality of that spend. We all know that the quality of spend of targeted M\u0101ori initiatives like Wh\u0101nau Ora are extremely good. That is why the programmes we invest in must be by M\u0101ori, to M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori. The Government\u2019s own M\u0101ori development Minister recently conceded this very point, and therefore tangata whenua will be watching to see if, in 2021, this Government and the bureaucrats actually listen to its M\u0101ori members. That\u2019s all I have to say, e te Whare. What say you, Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002299f8bde056b841d486774908951a2a73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299f8bde056b841d486774908951a2a73\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a shame we\u2019re not talking about the next Budget. We\u2019re talking about the last Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut can I first of all thank my officials at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, who have done a terrific job over the last year, and particularly during COVID, when you saw the strength of the networks and the relationship that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have with our Wh\u0101nau Ora providers. We got through that through the tenacity and determination of our people, who stepped up when COVID hit us. So I want to thank my agency for their mahi and for supporting the strategies that we are currently rolling out, which is economic resilience, our tikanga area, and our other area, where we\u2019re monitoring the Government agencies. So I think we\u2019re on track there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo in terms of the question from T\u0101mati Coffey, one of the first support packages in terms of COVID was the $56.5 million all-of-Government response to support the special health, social, and economic needs of M\u0101ori through that period. In terms of the second question from our National Party side in terms of the He Puapua report, it\u2019s important to be very clear, because the National Party seem to be very unclear, in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e26a800bc44465098e3ec5239013da1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: No, you haven\u2019t even had a conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8a2bce5abf44728061e03a5ca20dee\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Are you popping up again, Simeon? Oh right, OK. I thought you already had said enough before, but never mind. You have to be very clear\u2014and this member needs to know that your mentor John Key was very supportive of the United Nations declaration. Simon Bridges supported him, and may have even spoken on it. He may have even spoken on it and, in fact, along with the M\u0101ori Party, set us off on this path in terms of supporting indigenous people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236db21db34ca4fe88e6f5246d3851a6f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I wasn\u2019t at Cabinet that day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099a4b830b114e60ba91b09269cf2fb2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, you should never have been in Cabinet, either. But that set us off on this path of supporting indigenous people. At that time, the M\u0101ori Party, to their credit, got the Government back into this indigenous game, which I salute the M\u0101ori Party\u2014not Rawiri Waititi, but the previous M\u0101ori Party\u2014in terms\u2014[Interruption]\u2014because I\u2019ll come to Rawiri Waititi shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of getting back into the United Nations game, it\u2019s important that we play a part. The National Party knew that, the M\u0101ori Party know that, and we know that. So we\u2019re in that process that Simon and John Key and Judith Collins signed up to in 2010\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed12fe724f342609495d8c8a622940a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Hon Simon Bridges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f06abdb42acf49e9b97cce9245c1a056\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201Cthe honourable\u201D\u2014the Hon Simon Bridges. Ohorere au. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[That\u2019s a surprise.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EOK, the Hon Simon Bridges\u2014my apologies, the honourable one. But the National Party signed up to this in 2010, and we\u2019re just carrying on the work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of He Puapua, it\u2019s an independent report, and I mihi to them too for their mahi\u2014some excellent work there. But it\u2019s going to go forward, and the question was: is it going forward to Cabinet? Yes, it is. We\u2019re going through that consultation process right now. So thank you for that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of Rawiri Waititi\u2019s campaign speech for the next Budget, he\u2019s completely wrong, as usual, with his figures, and that\u2019s one of the problems the M\u0101ori Party have. They need an accountant to work out their numbers, and that accountant can\u2019t be John Tamihere, because John Tamihere\u2014Rawiri\u2019s father-in-law\u2014came up with this ridiculous percentage. Actually, he came up with this 0.3 percent. The M\u0101ori caucus and M\u0101ori Ministers delivered over $900 million right across the spectrum. When you do a Budget\u2014somebody has to explain this to my friend Rawiri Waititi, like I have to explain the House to him every day. But someone needs to explain to him that when you do a Budget, you look right across the spectrum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c2268bcbb04b0ba7bf533c2d8e2ced\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: No, you vote M\u0101ori\u2014vote M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d929a892bba34b5a8170c568c30f0887\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t just look at Vote M\u0101ori, because k\u014Dhanga reo is not in Vote M\u0101ori. K\u014Dhanga reo is not in Vote M\u0101ori. We\u2019ve got M\u0101ori initiatives in corrections. That\u2019s not in Vote M\u0101ori. We have M\u0101ori initiatives right across the spectrum, and I need to explain that you have to assess the gains for M\u0101ori right across the spectrum. Those gains were 6 percent. That was like 100 percent more than the previous M\u0101ori Party ever got with National. So I just need to explain that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of the question about housing, the M\u0101ori caucus works brilliantly with Minister Megan Woods\u2014brilliantly. Peeni Henare is working the strategy with Minister Woods and myself in terms of papak\u0101inga and repairs, where you\u2019ve seen a lot of gains for M\u0101ori in the last few months. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d088c467b5014d709831a475d76edf29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d088c467b5014d709831a475d76edf29\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to come to the point of this and ask a couple of brief questions on a couple of discrete issues in relation to He Puapua. I just want to ensure the Minister is listening to those, because I would like answers. So I\u2019m just going to talk slowly for a moment while the senior whip finishes his conversation with the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ERight, there are two things that I would like the Minister to answer in relation to He Puapua, and I appreciate his pretty, I think, clear answers before to the questions he\u2019s been asked. The first is we are told in the document that it is based on partnership, and my read of it\u2014I\u2019m not directly quoting all of this\u2014is that partnership in terms of the document is a greater \u201Cpartnership bodies at the governance level\u201D so that M\u0101ori\u2014and this isn\u2019t a direct quote now\u2014have half of the governance. It goes on to talk about biculturalism in partnership, meaning that that occurs in that 50:50 split in governance across health, education, resource management, conservation, and M\u0101ori language, etc. So is that what we\u2019re talking about\u2014partnership? I just want to get that clear. What is partnership in He Puapua, and is that what he is going with and taking to Cabinet? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThen I just do want to come back to\u2014and I appreciate his answers\u2014that issue of how he will implement it. He said, \u201CYes, it is going to Cabinet.\u201D, and that\u2019s good to hear. Can he just be a bit more specific? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1c83acfb5d4f6fb22cdfac12367761\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, can I raise a point of order. Twice now, we\u2019ve heard from the National Party members talking about the He Puapua report, which has absolutely nothing to do with the annual review of the Ministry of M\u0101ori Development. I thought that this was all about the annual review for the Ministry of M\u0101ori Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cdc752f54e240169b8a63a15e98b599\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, but you\u2019re wrong. It is in order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c23197fb725a46578366d18c50b721b1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s, as I say, been clear it\u2019s going to Cabinet. Can you give us a bit of a sense? I\u2019m not asking for the date or anything, but is that this year, for example, and is it a question of\u2014look, which it often is in relation to, for example, the royal commission on March the 15th\u2014implementation of the full report, or is it a pick and choose that he\u2019s going to do? I just want to get a sense of what is it that he is seeking to implement in this report at a broad level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f160259fdf43feb4969310710b6291\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f160259fdf43feb4969310710b6291\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe te Pika. Kei a au \u0113tahi p\u0101tai, heoi an\u014D me t\u012Bmata ki roto i te horopaki o te r\u0101: I t\u0113nei ata i tae \u0113tahi o m\u0101tou ki te riu o Manawat\u016B. I reira t\u0113tahi h\u012Bkoi. I karangahia ng\u0101 marae 12 o te Manawat\u016B m\u014D te tautoko ng\u0101 w\u0101ri M\u0101ori. I te mea kei roto i taua kaunihera, k\u0101ore t\u014D r\u0101tou korom\u0101tua me \u0101 r\u0101tou kaikaunihera i tautoko ki te whakarite he w\u0101ri M\u0101ori ki roto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 p\u0101tai i puta mai, \u201CMe p\u0113hea ng\u0101 hapori, me p\u0113hea ng\u0101 Iwi M\u0101ori? M\u0113n\u0101 k\u0101ore te, e k\u012Bia nei, wairua o te manaakitanga, te wairua o te aro ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te M\u0101ori e ora ana ki roto i aua takiw\u0101. N\u014D reira, me mihi au ki a r\u0101tou m\u0101 ka tika i te mea i whakarite r\u0101tou ki runga o te wairua o te kotahitanga i whakarite i runga i te wairua o te tino rangatiratanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 hapori, he ng\u0101wari, ko \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 hapori he uaua n\u014D reira ko t\u0101ku nei: me whai oranga ki roto i te whakangungu me te whakaora ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga i roto i ng\u0101 takiw\u0101 p\u0113nei ki te Manawat\u016B kia \u0101hei te noho tahi o te P\u0101keh\u0101 me te M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker. I have some questions. However, I would like to begin by acknowledging today\u2019s events. This morning some of us made it to a h\u012Bkoi in the Manawat\u016B valley. It was organised by 12 marae of Manawat\u016B and was about M\u0101ori wards. This took place because the mayor and councillors of that council would not support the establishment of M\u0101ori wards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAlas, one of the questions asked was \u201CWhat about M\u0101ori communities and M\u0101ori people if we do not have unity or a commitment to M\u0101ori aspects in these districts?\u201D Therefore, I would like to acknowledge those who made it, and who are committed to unity built upon self-determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAlas, some communities were tolerant, others were difficult. Therefore, my question is this: is the path to wellbeing through training and education in districts like Manawat\u016B so that M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 can live in harmony?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKia ora, Mr Speaker. First of all, I just wanted to acknowledge the h\u012Bkoi that happened earlier today in the Manawat\u016B, as I was just explaining in M\u0101ori. I\u2019d like to mihi to the wider hap\u016B and the wider iwi and M\u0101ori communities in the Manawat\u016B for taking the stand in Feilding today, this morning, for the establishment of M\u0101ori wards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWhat I think here when I look back at this review and use it as a foundation in terms of where we need to move forward, my question is: does the Minister have any ideas about building capacity for towns and communities and regions which have not fully appreciated how a M\u0101ori ward could actually bring iwi and hap\u016B to the council tables in terms of the way that he sees the direction of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri moving forward? T\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00226bcf43af55c045f7aea395fcf4ef7758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bcf43af55c045f7aea395fcf4ef7758\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E In terms of He Puapua, I\u2019ll go to that first. As I said in the House the other day, I\u2019m going through a process right now, which is a consultation process with Cabinet Ministers, and it\u2019s certainly our intention, my intention, to bring it forward, I think the question was, this year\u2014hopefully, in the next few weeks. So that\u2019s my answer with regards to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of the ongoing process, I think it\u2019s important that we don\u2019t run scare strategies, as the National Party has been trying to do over the last few weeks\u2014picking out He Puapua, picking out every M\u0101ori initiative. Shame on you, really, Simon Bridges and your team, in terms of the types of strategies that you\u2019re trying to run with this. It\u2019s an independent paper and I salute them for that, and my agency helped, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut the process going forward: consultation, and then we want to get some recommendations, and what I ultimately hope to do is we want to work a relationship with M\u0101ori to see where they see things are going, particularly in terms of the constitution, which has been an ongoing debate for M\u0101ori for many, many years. We want to get their view, and then we want the public\u2019s, on where we go in terms of partnership, where we go in terms of kaupapa M\u0101ori and in terms of the partnership. I won\u2019t comment on the He Puapua view, but I think it\u2019s everyone\u2019s hope\u2014I certainly knew it was the hope of John Key, and I certainly know it\u2019s the hope of Jacinda Ardern and the Labour Party\u2014that we actually forge the right type of partnership in this country. Perhaps we can get our strategy right in terms of our United Nations strategy. We might be able to reach\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d9e41fe2ab4516bace2cc4882f7f78\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: This is actually pretty disciplined, Willie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c0a2726cd547dca5aeab798d18f903\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a lot more disciplined than the disgraceful campaign that your lot are running at the moment. But other than that, in terms of the M\u0101ori wards, I hear the member over there and the question about the M\u0101ori wards\u2014again, another campaign that the National Party has been slamming, despite their hypocrisy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d3cfbbaef24cd0bbcc24cdae3b8582\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You sit down when I stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2f6863cdd81430c9f8cf07d839057be\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, apologies. Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df31037cc2b44b14a6fcd6bd2e36dba6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: That is unparliamentary language. You will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9dccbf2d7a047d39b57f8aa746fbcf1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori wards need support in terms of strategies going forward. I think that there was some wonderful work done by our local body Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, and it\u2019s right I mihi to her for all her work done over the last three years. This has really been her Budget, so mihi nui ki a koe, te tuahine. But I think the more we talk about it, our people are rising up everywhere in terms of laying down a challenge in terms of those M\u0101ori wards, despite the disgraceful campaign from the National Party. So well done to them in Manawat\u016B and to our people all around the country. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddea443486774cfc8e3d8600e30a3737\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddea443486774cfc8e3d8600e30a3737\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E He p\u0101tai an\u014D t\u0101ku e p\u0101 ana ki He Puapua. Ki t\u0101ku nei au i p\u0101nuihia te ripoata o He Puapua, he ara an\u014D m\u014D t\u0113nei mea te Matike Mai, te ripoata Matike Mai. Ki roto i te ripoata o te Matike Mai, etahi o ng\u0101 whiringa ara m\u014D t\u0113nei mea te tino rangatiratanga me te mana motuhake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMe te mea atu, ki t\u014Dku nei whakaaro kei reira te oranga m\u014D t\u0101tou, n\u014D reira, he momo p\u0101tai t\u0113nei ki a koe e te Minita: m\u0113n\u0101 k\u0101ore t\u0113tahi i te kaha ki te whakaae ki te oranga o te M\u0101ori ki roto i t\u014Dna \u0101huatanga katoa, he kaikiri t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101hua ki t\u014D whakaaro?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[I have another question regarding He Puapua. From what I have read in the He Puapua report, it goes in a different direction to the Matike Mai report. The Matike Mai report has proposed some pathways forward for M\u0101ori autonomy and M\u0101ori sovereignty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAlso, I believe this is the way forward for us. Therefore, I have a question regarding this for you Minister: if someone does not support or agree to M\u0101ori living as M\u0101ori, in its entirety, is that racism in your view?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002209ba275d4a634f39b409d202fec38f02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209ba275d4a634f39b409d202fec38f02\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E He p\u0101tai nunui t\u0113r\u0101 e hoa. Engari, e tika ana ki te tautoko t\u014D k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te Matike Mai. E mauhara te k\u014Drero o taku matua k\u0113k\u0113 me Margaret Mutu\u2014e tika ana ki te tautoko.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EHe maha ng\u0101 t\u016Bmanako m\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa, He Puapua, engari k\u0101ore e tika m\u014Dku ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113r\u0101 rautaki i t\u0113nei w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[That is an important question. However, it is only right that I support your statement about Matike Mai. I remember what my uncle and Margaret Mutu said\u2014it is only right to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThere are many aspirations for this topic, He Puapua, but it is not appropriate to talk about that strategy at this time.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002234338e7adc904ef8af40f7704fff5d0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234338e7adc904ef8af40f7704fff5d0b\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, thank you for the answer before around He Puapua. I guess I\u2019m sort of reminded of that quote that\u2019s attributed to Dame Whina Cooper which says \u201CIf you walk slowly, you take the old people with you; if you walk fast, you lose them\u201D. I think the bottom line here is that we\u2019ve seen M\u0101ori wards done under urgency, and not taking the New Zealand people with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EMy question for you is: how do you plan to take the New Zealand people with you and actually make the case for the constitutional change that you might be coming through with He Puapua and other thinking around that? Is it actually important for New Zealanders to come with us on that journey, and can you sort of understand why they think it\u2019s being done by stealth and piecemeal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00225d695615caf544faa125d57718e0923a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d695615caf544faa125d57718e0923a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E I completely understand where New Zealanders are at and I think New Zealanders are a lot more mature than what the National Party thinks. There\u2019s been a huge amount of support for some of the kaupapa that we\u2019ve been running out. In terms of taking New Zealanders with us, we want to go through a process: a process of consultation, a process where we work with Cabinet, where we work with M\u0101ori, and then we come back to New Zealanders for their views. So there\u2019ll be no rushing through of anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EJust remembering here, He Puapua is an independent report, but in terms of constitutional reviews, it\u2019s an obligation for us to look at that. We\u2019ll be taking our time, not rushing anything through, and we won\u2019t be scaring the public like the National Party has been trying to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EPolice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002221f0ee5a394e412087cef5041cd3accb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f0ee5a394e412087cef5041cd3accb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: We are now moving on to the next debate. We welcome the Minister of Police, the Hon Poto Williams, and we\u2019ll hear from Ginny Andersen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002243bd3deceaf14799a060e4bf4a85ea78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243bd3deceaf14799a060e4bf4a85ea78\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai. The Justice Committee reported back to the House on the annual reviews in the justice sector in March 2021. As part of this process, the committee conducted a regular review of the New Zealand Police. The commissioner and officials appeared before the select committee, and it was quite a lively event, I do remember. The committee heard about a number of important topics, including the impact of COVID-19, Operation Tauwhiro and other wider work in the space of combating gangs and organised crime, and also the work that\u2019s been going on to reduce family violence in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn terms of reducing family harm, the select committee particularly asked police how they were addressing the problem of family violence within New Zealand. It was acknowledged and provided to the committee that at the heart of this is as much criminal offending, as well. Particularly, the programme that police have been working on is a joint wraparound programme with iwi. Wh\u0101ngaia N\u0101 P\u0101 Harakeke is a programme which creates opportunities by communicating and partnering through agencies, and also by working within communities to share that information at the right time and the right place. By being able to share information more readily and with a wider range of partners, this has been seen to be a better way of assessing risk and to coordinate an appropriate response to that level of risk. Additionally, the various partnering agencies are able to share their expertise and resources and address a complex range of factors. This was seen to be working particularly well in some of those areas that had a higher rate of family violence in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn relation to gangs and organised crime, the select committee particularly heard about Operation Tauwhiro. Police told the committee that in February 2021, the operation was launched, and this continues to be a nationwide operation that seeks to disrupt and prevent firearms-related violence by criminal gangs and organised crime. The committee was told by the commissioner and also officials that the police\u2019s 10,000 officers will be focused on firearms-related violence involving gangs and organised criminal groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EInformation was provided that Operation Tauwhiro was one of the first operations that aligned the police\u2019s new organised crime strategy, which sits alongside the transnational organised crime strategy, which was launched in September last year. The committee specifically asked police to comment on the expectations of the operation, particularly around its effectiveness, considering that the operation provided a new focus for police. The police response was that it was proactive and focused, and that it was seen to be a significant contributor to the increase in firearm seizures, asset confiscations, and drug charges related to gang activity demonstrated that this was an effective approach that had been taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt was also noted that when working within communities on issues such as this, policing by consent was important, and that was a term that was looked at. We noted that police stated in their annual report that for their effectiveness as an organisation, it was important that they did that with the consent of communities and worked alongside. Their focus on this approach has led to a style of policing that influences how they respond to communities. The select committee particularly picked up on this and asked how this approach affected the way that police would respond to gang-related crime. We heard that the approach of policing by consent in no way detracted from the seriousness in which the police approach gangs and gang offences. Rather, the approach is about ensuring that police maintain the trust and the confidence of the communities that they work within. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ETo quickly wrap up\u2014as I\u2019m aware of time\u2014we also heard about what work police had done after March 15th. The select committee acknowledged and thanked the police for their work in responding to the March 15th terror attack on Christchurch mosques, and the police had stated that the royal commission had recommended that the police improve the way they record crimes where hate is a motivating factor. In response to this, police discussed how they developed new strategies. One in particular, Te Raranga, or The Weave, is to better help coordinate and respond to hate crime and hate incidents. We heard that police are also strengthening the engagement with ethnic communities through a joint M\u0101ori, Pacific, and ethnic focus forum. I will enable further discussion around these areas by enabling members to ask questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00224e99e1fb8f474dc2b469b1fda375037b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e99e1fb8f474dc2b469b1fda375037b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for an opportunity to take a call in the annual review debate of the New Zealand Police, and let me start by, first, acknowledging the Minister in the chair and also acknowledging all of our men and women who put on the police uniform, day in and day out, to keep us safe. I just want to acknowledge their hard work and their dedication to the role that they play\u2014an incredibly important role that they play in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOne of the big areas that we discussed at the annual review of the New Zealand Police was the increase in gang membership that we\u2019re seeing and the increase in gang crime that we\u2019re seeing currently in New Zealand. It\u2019s no secret that gangs are becoming more emboldened. They are becoming more entrenched into our society. We\u2019ve seen gang numbers increase by 2,500 under this Government\u2019s watch\u2014a 48 percent increase in gang membership. We\u2019ve seen the number of firearm offences increasing rapidly. This is something which is incredibly concerning to New Zealanders as they can see this happening on a day-to-day basis on the streets and in their communities, and whilst it\u2019s good to see that the Government is finally waking up to this issue by announcing today that they will be introducing legislation around firearm prohibition orders, these changes come far too little and far too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe briefing to the incoming Minister, Stuart Nash, recommended back in 2017 introducing firearm prohibition orders. That came about because of a select committee inquiry which also recommended the introduction of firearm prohibition orders. The Government then sat on their hands and voted against legislation which the National Party put up twice on this issue: voted against it once, and then voted against it a second time midway through last year. The police consulted on firearm prohibition orders in January last year, and it\u2019s now taken about 15 or 16 months for the Government to finally make an announcement to say that they are finally going to do something about this issue. But the reality, whilst the Government has dithered and dathered, is we\u2019ve seen gangs become more entrenched, gang membership increase, and their violence become more bold, and that is something which is becoming more concerning to more and more New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo my challenge to the Minister who\u2019s in the chair is to tell the public tonight: when will legislation be before this House to debate firearm prohibition orders? My bill is still before the Justice Committee and it seems quite\u2014you know, yeah, it\u2019s politics. The Government announced their changes today, when the select committee was due to deliberate on Thursday. But when is the Government going to put their legislation on the floor of this House to be debated? They\u2019ve said it\u2019s going to be some time this year. When will it be on the floor of this House, because, I tell the Minister, New Zealanders have had enough? They want action now. They\u2019ve seen the National Party put this issue up and they\u2019ve seen the Government vote it down, and now it\u2019s time for some action, because actions speak louder than words when it comes to getting tough and smarter, when it comes to tackling the gang firearm violence that we\u2019re seeing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo when will it be on the floor of this House? When will we see that legislation? When will it be released and then debated so that it can get to a select committee for the public to have their say on it? Will that bill include additional search powers for police? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe select committee heard from the Police Association about the need for additional search powers, and I acknowledge that my bill needed to have some changes made. That\u2019s what the select committee process is for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe listened to the select committee and we listened to the submissions. Will the Minister ensure that this bill that she is putting forward actually listens to what the Police Association have been asking for, which is additional search powers so the police have more tools to go out there and actually take the guns off the gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are looking for bold leadership, but they\u2019re looking for legislation which will actually also do the job. So I ask the Minister to please confirm to the committee when this legislation will be coming and whether it will include search powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c773abf5b1f441a288c9c702d952ff25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c773abf5b1f441a288c9c702d952ff25\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for his questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EFirstly, can I acknowledge Constable Matthew Hunt, who passed away while keeping us safe and doing his duty as a front-line police officer. I have to say that we ask a great deal of our women and men in the service of police and they do put themselves out there on the line every single day. I mihi to the family of Matthew Hunt and I also mihi to all the women and men of the New Zealand Police for the work that they do. They have a right to be safe at work, just as they are doing their duty to keep us safe in our community. So I wanted to put that firstly on the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EAs a result of that, of course, the police instituted their front-line safety improvement programme, and from what I hear, it\u2019s making great inroads. It\u2019s giving our front-line staff a sense of confidence in their ability to tackle difficult issues and do their job effectively. That really speaks to the work of the police, that the police are the ones that we send out in difficult times to situations where they may not know what will confront them, and we have an expectation not only that they do their duty but that they keep us safe as well, and it\u2019s our role, as parliamentarians, to ensure that we support that work 100 percent. In saying that, I want to support the police in what they have been doing to keep us safe at the border, the work that they have been doing on managed isolation and quarantine, and, more importantly\u2014most importantly to me, as a member from Christchurch\u2014the work that was extraordinary in the direct aftermath of March 15. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe police are facing some very difficult issues, and we as a community are as well, and there\u2019s no doubt that there\u2019s concern for what is currently elevating gang violence in our communities. The response from the police has been not just around one or two things. They have been working to ensure that we have a programme in place that deals not only with the clinical response that we must have to disarm and de-escalate the current activity of gangs but that we put stuff in place that means that we can prevent people from getting into gangs in the first place and, if they are in gangs, we give them plenty of opportunities to exit out of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI particularly want to point to a couple of key items, and that\u2019s the transnational organised crime group and the Resilience to Organised Crime in Communities, the ROCC programme. Now, that sits alongside the operations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7ccc907fb14b9c968015965fa3d152\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2019s the FPO bill being introduced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5ef4a205f0499394696a9087ab5b57\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that we are currently involved in\u2014and I\u2019ll get to your question, Mr Brown, if you just give me a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd6761c37af4d38bad031fa07a7c7cc\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bbf6900fd14539a889822e3e40186e\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. That sits alongside\u2014because you asked about gangs. I\u2019ve taken a note of your questions. You asked about gangs, you asked about firearms offences, and you asked about firearms prohibition orders (FPOs). So you\u2019ve asked three questions and I\u2019m answering them for you. If you would just give me a moment in order to do that, that would be wonderful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ESo what I do want to talk about is the work that\u2019s happened around Operation Tauwhiro, and I don\u2019t think that the members of this House realise how significant and, in a short period of time since February, how effective that has been. The numbers that I have\u2014and I\u2019m not sure how up to date they are\u2014are 350 firearms seized, $2.4 million in cash seized, and 378 people arrested on firearms offences. So when members ask the question, \u201CWhat are the police doing about gangs?\u201D, here I can point to a direct thing that has been happening just very recently on top of the work that they are doing around resiliency against organised crime and the transnational work, and the work that they\u2019re doing in communities to divert people away from gangs. Te Pae Oranga pilots have been hugely successful\u2014have been hugely successful\u2014in reducing recidivism and reoffending by 22.5 percent, and that\u2019s an extraordinary figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ENow, just in terms of the question around firearms, I would hope that the member would support the Government in its desire to continue its programme of firearms reform, including the register, and I know that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f8aa11d4c404ccb96964c417059b4d4\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: But when\u2019s the FPO bill coming in? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe820b6d3d54a3eadde0eacc8d352c4\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brown, just a minute\u2014just a minute. Just a second. Hold yourself together for just one more minute and I\u2019ll get right to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThis is our significant programme, and we\u2019ve already done an enormous amount of work in that space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c3f9f58f3d42c38c96b5b643aecc5e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got 26 seconds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220400cf45d1fa4c8a9a2caa2cd1f3edbb\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: OK, right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223796c04cbbdf4ccc9a0727d3f8de4460\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014three minutes, 26 seconds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d56f0e6f7604038b098cd4de0952ac0\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ced73cfcf34431ea49d0b1625d12bc6\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: So do I get an answer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af22c37913f485391920b7b52adc24f\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: No, you will get an answer. In answer to your question, Mr Brown, about the FPOs\u2014and then I\u2019ll come back to some of the other things I want to talk about\u2014I must remind the committee that your bill actually required a massive rewrite and that it wasn\u2019t fit for purpose when it came to the select committee. Some of the questions that you asked about, including search powers\u2014well, that wasn\u2019t part of your original bill. But in answer to your question about when our bill will be here, it will be some time this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI want to talk\u2014as I\u2019ve got a couple more minutes left\u2014about a couple of things that are happening here, and that is around the work that police are doing in terms of addressing the overrepresentation of M\u0101ori and Pacific in our statistics. Now, there\u2019s no doubt that that is troubling for me and for many of us that we continue to be overrepresented in the stats, and it\u2019s my desire to work with the police to ensure that we look at those key issues that bring our people to the attention of the police. There\u2019s lots of work that needs to be done across the whole of Government to ensure that those drivers of crime are dealt with, but, actually, there are all the social issues that we can support as a Government. But as police, there is some specific work that they can do and that they are doing, identifying those areas where they know that the bias has impacted on their decisions around how they charge or who they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227614984cb4604b968ad12916b1956d5a\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. I appreciate the Minister\u2019s got a lot of things that she wants to say, but this is an opportunity for the committee of the whole House to ask questions. I don\u2019t know how much time the Minister actually has left, but I doubt it\u2019s very much, and that limits my ability in the remaining time I\u2019ve got to actually ask any future questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022944b1ebe3e1445bb92decace65f18847\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Or anyone else\u2019s, actually, because this debate will finish at 9.14 p.m., OK? So taking points of order like that is going to delay things. The Minister has one minute and 31 seconds of time remaining, if she wishes to use it, and then the Labour Party will have no more time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378d51b236da49a7abdfed64b191fa94\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I will sit down in a second, but I do want to address that issue because it is a pertinent issue, and it comes up in the House often. We must do better at addressing the issues that concern M\u0101ori and Pacific, and those decisions of who we stop and how we speak to them and those charging decisions. But I do want to say that I\u2019m heartened to see the work that police are doing in this space\u2014Te Huringa o Te Tai, for example\u2014and the fact that the work of the M\u0101ori, Pacific and ethnic services teams speaks to part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca7fcefa78734d749cac06b54b465de5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca7fcefa78734d749cac06b54b465de5\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to start off by acknowledging the hard work that our front-line police do on behalf of keeping New Zealand safe, and to also thank you, Minister, for the reminder of the tragedies, of the losses that we occur with our front-line police\u2014especially with Matthew Hunt. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Minister\u2019s work in what must be a very trying portfolio at times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMy question is based on noticing the delays in firearms licensing applications, which have already been addressed. This is occurring for both renewals for dealers, renewals for licence applicants, and also for first-time licence applications. It\u2019s caused a lot of stress and hardship to business owners and also to individuals. The delays have been quite extensive, with nearly 5,000 people waiting for a firearms licence for over six months, and 1,382 people have been waiting over 12 months. The result is that those awaiting renewals must remove their firearms from their police-approved and secure facilities and give them to someone else to hold on to for them, purely because the police are failing to complete their administrative job in a timely fashion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENow, when an exemption was introduced through the COVID-19 legislation for firearms to be retained by those with expired licences while police worked through their COVID obligations, the firearms community understood this. So why, then, when COVID-19 is still being used as an excuse by police for the delays in firearms licensing, does this Government not support their agency and members of the community to extend that exemption? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00228e09cafdfb1943b38aec97cffc21978f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e09cafdfb1943b38aec97cffc21978f\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E If I could just answer the member briefly to say that the police have brought on more staff to process the backlog and have been prioritising the applications for those in need of their licence for work and renewals first off, but we do acknowledge that the relicensing process has been delayed. We still continue to suffer the impacts of COVID-19 as we deploy people into other areas, but, as I say, police are diverting staff into this area to bring those applications up to date for those who need their licence for work first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022dce7b4ff63154282810ffd3585a8665e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dce7b4ff63154282810ffd3585a8665e\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E A very quick question to the Minister. The Government promised 1,800 new police, 700 of which were promised to be targeted, dedicated, to fighting gangs. My understanding is the Government\u2019s only delivered 242 of those officers so far. When will that be completed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002284318180de834b4389c1328bda1e5c98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284318180de834b4389c1328bda1e5c98\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Poto Williams\u2014I think you\u2019ve got about one minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022711b721530154679bd341129513170b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022711b721530154679bd341129513170b7\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. OK, firstly, I have to say that, you know, we have had a record investment into the police\u2014$450 million\u2014and the promise of not only 1,800 new but 1,800 growth. We are well on target to reach that by 2023, and 700 of those will be dedicated to tackling organised crime. We are on target to meet our targets in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ESo I thank the member for that question, but I must remind the member that the National Party have not invested nearly as much as we have. We are at record numbers of staff, with over 14,000 people in the service. So: in due course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022aadacac4eb84495192ee562acd675a4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aadacac4eb84495192ee562acd675a4d\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E You feel like a bit of a yo-yo doing this. Sorry\u2014it\u2019s all new to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOK, the National Gang List\u2014it appears really easy to get on and pretty hard to get off. Would the Minister agree that keeping an accurate list, so that it can be used for both intelligence purposes as well as delivering comprehensive statistics, would be beneficial to crime prevention in the future? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8b201a8ac424b038f276f348cd60530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8b201a8ac424b038f276f348cd60530\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I was trying to get an answer around the 700 promised additional officers targeting organised crime, and the answer was \u201Cin due course.\u201D New Zealanders well know that this promise was made: 1,800 new police over three years. Three years is well and truly up, and only 242 of those promised police are actually on the beat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe next question I\u2019ve got for the Minister, related to that, is: is the police training college actually taking in wings for training at the moment, and, if not, why not? Are the police, or is she as the Minister, going to try to get more resource so that that 1,800 police target can actually be met faster, rather than waiting until 2023, which seems to be the year that the target\u2019s been pushed out to? It seems quite odd that with increased gangs and increased violence on our streets, the Government seems pretty happy to not deliver on what was one of its key targets and promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022603a426cdb2a4207b297dd15bd27d50e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022603a426cdb2a4207b297dd15bd27d50e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you, Minister. I often hear in the House ill-informed rhetoric about systemic racism in the police based on selective statistics manipulated to suit certain agendas. My question is to the Minister: do you think you provide enough visible public support to the front-line police who protect us every day and attend incidents that most of their critics would run a mile from? The reason I ask about support is because I\u2019m in touch with many ex-colleagues\u2014current, and police no longer serving\u2014and most don\u2019t know who their Minister is, and they certainly don\u2019t feel supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b84bd7be7d6f4418a2cc955eeffecbc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b84bd7be7d6f4418a2cc955eeffecbc4\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My question to the Minister in the chair, Poto Williams, is a reiteration of a question I asked just earlier, which is: is there a reason why the Minister will not grant exemptions for licence holders using the COVID-19 legislation, as they did before, when COVID-19 is one of the excuses by police for the delays in licensing? While I appreciate that there\u2019s more staff involved, the delays are still quite huge and affect large numbers\u2014thousands\u2014of people. There is a way to make this easier on licence holders, and I would question as to why we cannot invoke COVID-19 legislation for an extension on those licences again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002231eef825c75940efa159e56de9758505\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231eef825c75940efa159e56de9758505\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My last question to the Minister\u2014and I believe we are running out of time, but there will be enough time for the Minister to answer it\u2014is around whether she agrees or disagrees with Meng Foon\u2019s statement about a month ago, when he said that the police are racist. I\u2019m not sure if the Minister has actually made any commentary on that particular issue, but my understanding from talking to front-line officers is that they were pretty disgusted by those comments. It undermined the important work that they did and was frankly unacceptable. I was wondering whether the Minister has made any comments, and, if not, will she make some comments as to whether she agrees or disagrees with what Meng Foon had to say? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae7961ac60c8475e95fee223079aae78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae7961ac60c8475e95fee223079aae78\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. My question for the Minister: we have Operation Tauwhiro; we have Te Raranga. Where is your aukati or kati te kaikiri tangata whenua strategy, please? In English, that means: where is your racism strategy against tangata whenua? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f98f61f7650a4272860511017f33f70d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f98f61f7650a4272860511017f33f70d\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister, when will the new authority charged with administrating firearms legislation be implemented? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the annual financial statements of the Government for the 2019/20 financial year noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EReports of committees on annual reviews noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8e180622d414534b60a14a1db0bf6da\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 11 and Schedules 1 to 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022519c80018cf94399bf2e1611941ce028\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 11 and Schedules 1 to 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 11 and Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000776\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1714989170d4ecf87925f15fcc99e09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1714989170d4ecf87925f15fcc99e09\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4fae777cc71471683952cb58ae7decd\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002204f28a71bbb14e80b63a3bc242690346\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228255c45b45be48af8f47636d20beefa2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228255c45b45be48af8f47636d20beefa2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ba6d96c788d4a619f3bb80ce6f7741b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2019/20 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000783\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cdf2a0fcbef4346a8136cd862a55c4e\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002277a0a6e912784cdfbdee679e4bfc2a1c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7e730fe1a074bfc89bde4d48a99707a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7e730fe1a074bfc89bde4d48a99707a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I, firstly, present a legislative statement on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210b29eb63ac747b8bb8c4cf17b3fc596\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House. It can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b73940a60d24c9288732fe1bfd6839d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I begin by thanking the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their work on this bill and their work on the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Act that was passed under urgency last year as part of our response to COVID. The deliberations of the committee covered both the urgent bill and the No. 3 investment bill that we now debated debating, and I\u2019m sure that the bill as reported back is better thanks to the work. Can I also thank the 46 submitters who took time to consider what is quite a complex set of measures. Individual law firms and businesses all made submissions to the committee, and I\u2019m sure those submissions assisted the committee in their deliberations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThese obviously have been unprecedented times, and although the economic out-turn from the COVID pandemic has, in the case of New Zealand, been far better than was initially projected, our concerns at the time were that we were going to have such a severe contraction and that the recession would cause a decline in the value of a lot of businesses. We were worried that some businesses, particularly in the sectors that were most affected by COVID, or were predicted to be most affected by COVID, would result in insolvencies. There was a risk, we believed\u2014as did Australia and various other countries\u2014that some of those companies might be in a such a parlous position that, notwithstanding credit support from central government, they might have thought themselves having no choice but to sell the residual assets and the businesses in a parlous state. As a consequence, we brought forward legislation which changed the threshold for Government to take action, to block some of those sales to overseas parties and brought it down to a nil threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs it happens, we\u2019ve rarely exercised those discretions to use a national interest test, kicking in at very low levels, and the system that\u2019s been devised and applied by Government has proven to be a very efficient system, which has not caused undue costs to applicants. I think most applicants have been impressed with the speed with which those call-in processes have been conducted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re soon to take decisions as to whether we carry forward those interim measures, but when those interim measures do end, we need a background system of overseas investment rules that fit for modern times. Now, I think everyone\u2014or just about everyone\u2014in this House agrees that productive foreign investment will continue to play an important role in our economy. It\u2019s obviously important that our businesses can access foreign investment that they need to thrive. Often, the spring is not just financial capital but international connections, which enable those businesses to succeed internationally. However, successive Governments, and indeed Governments in most countries, think that there can be risks from foreign investment that need to be managed. This bill seeks to do this by being more clear as to what the rules are, particularly in respect of farmland, and also deregulates some areas of foreign direct investment that have been overregulated and have been unnecessarily rule-bound. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of changes that we\u2019ve already made in the prior three years, we made changes to make it harder to purchase existing homes. Overseas buyers now find it hard to buy existing New Zealand homes, and that was a matter that was of considerable concern to New Zealanders. And most New Zealanders rejoice in the fact that we have made that tougher. There was a prior problem that we\u2019ve largely closed down. As with some of the recent changes that we\u2019ve been making to tax rules, we were careful to exempt scale new builds. Foreign investment in apartment buildings, for example, or large subdivisions with new housing being built is enabled. So a lot of those houses are eventually going to be sold to New Zealanders or leased to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill that we\u2019re now considering largely replicates what was already the case for farmland, by way of regulations under the Overseas Investment Act, but it lifts those provisions from regulation to the primary legislation so that, if a future Government wants to loosen up foreign direct investment in rural land, that the majority of New Zealanders and the majority of farmers oppose, then that future Government would have to come to this Parliament to change the law rather than change it by executive regulation without recourse to Parliament. And, given the importance that New Zealanders attach to landownership, and given that most of our exports come from the primary sector and the control of our large co-ops that are vertically integrated internationally is held by virtue of ownership of farms and the production which goes from the farms through the co-ops, we in the Labour Party think that it is appropriate to have those rules as to foreign ownership of land set out in the primary statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOne of the changes that\u2019s been made by the select committee is to make it clear that those restrictions on foreign ownership of rural land don\u2019t apply where the land is no longer really primarily suitable for use as rural productive land but is more suited to development for housing purposes or commercial purposes, perhaps at the margins of a city. And because we\u2019re not wanting to frustrate investment in housing, for example, or other commercial endeavours, the select committee recommended, and we\u2019ve accepted their recommendation, that that not be subject to the stricter rules relating to foreign ownership in rural land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother change that is made is to require the advertisement for the sale of rural land to be made before the land is sold to an overseas buyer, rather than after. I think most members were surprised to learn that you could comply with the laws by, effectively, negotiating a sale to someone overseas, conditional on an advertisement not working, and then advertise after the fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of some of the areas that are being loosened up, we are enabling changes in shareholding of overseas companies without requiring an application to the Overseas Investment Office if it\u2019s a minor change in percentage and not an effective change in control or further change in control. We\u2019re also excluding a number of other technical investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re making it clear that some of the provisions that currently require overseas approval under the national interest test, involving sovereign wealth funds, should not be screened so long as it really is an independent sovereign wealth fund of the type described in the legislation. We\u2019re excluding short-term leases. We\u2019re saying that, if you\u2019ve previously proved your character to the Overseas Investment Office and you want to make another investment, you don\u2019t need to once again prove your character to the Overseas Investment Office. That can be proven from your earlier application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo these mechanisms will actually reduce compliance costs. The national interest test, which was introduced through the emergency legislation, is maintained. It was a gap in our legislation, and I expect that, had the National Government been re-elected, they would have moved to introduce a national interest test in respect of security issues which were raised by security agencies with the incoming Government, and I think had been raised with the National Government as they left office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWith that, I think that we have a better foreign investment regime after this by making it clear we\u2019re open for business, making it harder to buy rural land, or elevating those tests into the primary legislation but also removing some of the niggly provisions that weren\u2019t necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec21d41076bf40b6af71379999ee249e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec21d41076bf40b6af71379999ee249e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00221ecd81092fd54736b6b13701f08269b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ecd81092fd54736b6b13701f08269b2\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I start where the Hon David Parker left off, where he says this bill reduces compliance costs, and that will be a welcome thing. But we won\u2019t hear it that often in this House from this Government, because this is one of the few pieces of legislation that comes close to doing that compared to all the others parts of red tape and bureaucracy and compliance that has been applied across the board on the business sector in New Zealand on households, mums and dads, and the costs that come with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMinister Parker is correct: New Zealand needs to be open to do business and attract foreign direct investment. It is always important that the Government look to where it can be directed most productively. But, in so doing, what is just as important for those we seek to attract, to bring to our economy, to invest, to grow the economy, to partner, to create jobs\u2014because we have to remember there are very few paths of economy that haven\u2019t had foreign direct investment brought into them and therefore have benefited as a result of that\u2014most importantly, is for these investors to have some certainty. Often a no can be as good as yes if it comes quickly enough, but in this case, actually, a very clear process that runs through quickly that they have sight of and can deliver an outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo there are parts of this bill that do that, but I have to say that in the 3\u00BD years since Labour first came to office, they have done more than tinkered with the Overseas Investment Act; they, actually, at times, have driven ideology through it, without it directly being able to demonstrate that there was a need or a real benefit. And that is why often we\u2019ve seen them come back and have another go and have to correct something or fix it. I\u2019d like to stand here and say they were well intentioned, but I am not sure that is necessarily the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn particular in this legislation, there are a couple of things that I think are a very good idea, and I\u2019m surprised that they have to be fixed as opposed to that this Government shouldn\u2019t have changed them to start with. And that is in two areas. If somebody has been deemed to be fit to invest in New Zealand and they have invested, if they want to incrementally increase that, previously, that investment, they\u2019ve had to go back and seek additional clearance. And, of course, if nothing has changed, all that is is dead time and it means the investment comes more slowly, its investment in the economy takes longer to show benefit, and the jobs that foreign direct investment create are further away\u2014if, indeed, they get permission. Well, of course, that has been rectified here in this legislation, which is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe other one is removal of the screening requirements for the non-resident leases up to 10 years. In Opposition, the Labour Party made a great deal, a song and dance, about the harm that foreigners do to New Zealand. They would, from time to time, qualify that in a particular area, but generally they gave the voting public the view that, actually, foreigners are not good when they come to invest here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EUltimately, if we look at the changes the Minister spoke about around farmland and so on: well, actually, if it\u2019s not productive land, it\u2019s going to be used for something else, then if it is of benefit to the economy, then the decision-making process should be very quick; it doesn\u2019t need to take a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut in the case of non-resident leases, the difference between what Labour said 3\u00BD  years ago around the changes they wanted to make to foreign direct investment, and this, is that you can\u2019t take the land away with you\u2014full stop\u2014and it would be even harder if they could make the case that you could if it was leased. So, in this case, for there to be a lease that is entered into, the owner of the land is a New Zealander, or could well be somebody from overseas that has been given permission to buy and own that land, irrespective of where the person comes from that wants to take up a lease, they have the ability to do so, and I\u2019m glad that\u2019s been recognised here in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere are many other things this Government changed\u2014or need to be changed around foreign direct investment, to give certainty so that investment flows to New Zealand appropriately and New Zealanders can benefit from it. I would say to Minister Parker that, whilst parts of this legislation are a good start, there are many other areas where changes are needed that are not being brought in this legislation, which is a shame. I dare say that we will be back before the House with more legislative changes proposed by this Government around foreign direct investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAs an example, the changes around the leases. If there is enough noise, Mr Parker will want to come back and change that. The problem with that is it creates uncertainty. Whenever there is uncertainty or delay, people who want to make an investment can\u2019t price or factor in that delay, and so guess what! They will go somewhere else. There will be some in New Zealand, there will be some in this House, there will be many in the Labour Party that would say that\u2019s a good thing\u2014it\u2019s not a bad thing. But, actually, as far as growing the economy and creating jobs, we are a small economy. We do need to partner with the rest of the world. There are many, many, many examples of where foreign direct investment has benefited New Zealanders directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this legislation, but we think there are missed opportunities in it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00227477cf2096834d31939a1187d7951cdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227477cf2096834d31939a1187d7951cdf\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and it\u2019s good to hear that the Opposition will be supporting this bill, and for good reason, because as it went through committee we could see it is a bill which really does try to make it easier to make high-quality investments in New Zealand. As the Minister said, there were a number of submitters\u2014and submitters who gave really high-quality submissions, who had taken a lot of time and thought very carefully about how to improve this overseas investment system. Whilst the concept of encouraging high-quality investment that\u2019s good for New Zealand and is consistent with our security is simple to say, it became very clear in committee that when you think about it, and when you are actually trying to implement that policy, it becomes very difficult because even the concept of exactly who is an overseas person is by no means straightforward when you\u2019ve got large companies with shifting ownership. And that\u2019s certainly one thing we had to look at: there are companies listed on the New Zealand Stock Exchange whose ownership shifts on a daily and even hourly basis. So those kinds of things had to be looked at and also the assets we are protecting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EObviously, we\u2019ve just heard how important land is, but we really did have to dig a bit deeper, so to speak, in respect of that land and identify why we were protecting particular land. Obviously, farmland\u2019s important but it was a really useful discussion\u2014and the Opposition contributed in a meaningful way to this discussion\u2014to look at what was zoned rural land but was on urban fringe, and the fact that, in many cases, whilst you might have stock on the land or some kind of crop it was really just being held there. It wasn\u2019t being used to its maximum economic potential because it was really development land and, in fact, foreign investment in that land may well be very useful, and so in committee that was something that absolutely we looked at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut in respect of farmland it is really important to recognise that we have in New Zealand some of the best, most efficient farmers and farming systems, and so it\u2019s a high threshold to show that the sale of farmland to an overseas investor is going to bring greater benefits. An overseas investor who\u2019s seeking to purchase New Zealand farmland, essentially, has to show that they can bring technology or jobs or something which can\u2019t be obtained in New Zealand\u2014so that\u2019s a high threshold. Also, of course, there was a lot of discussion around the need to publicly advertise that farmland because historically the deal would be jacked up and any notification or advertising would be an after-the-event matter and really there would be no fair opportunity. You know, along with the kind of strategic interests of New Zealand farmland, there\u2019s also a sense that New Zealanders\u2014as with houses\u2014should own New Zealand farms. They should be given the first opportunity to own New Zealand farms. So that was kind of one of those underpinning values as well. So that was a really important aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing\u2014well, a number of other things came up, of course, but one of the important ones was just the benefit to New Zealand test. And there was some very useful\u2014and the Greens contributed significantly to the discussion around the benefit to New Zealand test and whether it was a balancing of negatives and positives or whether it was simply showing that once you cross the threshold of qualifying as an investor to purchase something in New Zealand you could simply show that additional benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI want to just recognise the robust discussion that went on in committee there. I really want to recognise the sense of the position that, ultimately, wasn\u2019t adopted and I want to say why it wasn\u2019t adopted, because I think that\u2019s important. The idea of looking at, say, environmental impacts against the benefit to New Zealand\u2014the reason that balancing exercise wasn\u2019t adopted was because there\u2019s a whole area of law devoted to balancing environmental impacts, for example. And that, of course, is the Resource Management Act and all of the associated mechanisms along there. So rather than kind of second guessing what the environmental impacts might be through a robust resource management process, this looks at benefit to New Zealand; it doesn\u2019t contextualise it across all of the possible overs and unders, if you like. It just says, \u201CLet\u2019s look at the benefits. And if that\u2019s the case, then the acquisition is permitted.\u201D But of course, all of New Zealand law, whether it be planning law, whether it be employment law, and so on and so forth, will continue to apply. I\u2019ve got to say that was a really useful discussion but one which, ultimately, fell on the side of that, essentially, single line test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, look, it was a very good and useful select committee process, but I do want to just recognise that it is a technical bill and one that committee members and submitters and officials worked hard to make sure we got our head around all of those complexities. I think we\u2019ve done a pretty good job with it and of course, this is now a bill which becomes really the last piece in the puzzle of making sure our overseas investment framework is fit for the future. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00228899c61da71c43218d7fe5b6587c4fae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228899c61da71c43218d7fe5b6587c4fae\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. A pleasure to be talking on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). It feels like we\u2019re coming to the end of the road\u2014we\u2019ve been talking about overseas investment for a long period of time, since the start of COVID back in March last year, and a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worthwhile just to remind ourselves why we\u2019re so interested in this, and I think the main thing we\u2019ve got to recognise is where do jobs come from in New Zealand, and where do people actually derive a living. That is from businesses getting out there, and particularly their owners getting out there and investing money in creating new businesses and taking the risk, and taking on new people to create those jobs. I think we need to look at this in that context of how we assist businesses to take on that risk and to take up that challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think if you look at New Zealand in terms of its investment flows, we\u2019ve always relied on overseas investment. Some people say that was unfortunate, but it\u2019s been a fact of life since, really, since P\u0101keh\u0101 days when New Zealand has always relied on overseas investment\u2014particularly originally from Britain, but now from many sources around the world. That is not going to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo the whole purpose of what we\u2019re trying to do with the overseas investment bills, and this is the second of the two that we\u2019ve been debating over the last months, is about putting in place an appropriate framework to ensure that the investment that we get and need from overseas is the right type of investment and goes into the right sort of areas, but is also subject to appropriate controls. Of course, we have said we\u2019re going to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the first thing I\u2019d just like to say on this issue is really one around the key parts of this. And I think, as the Minister spoke initially about when he did his introduction, there are differing layers around this, there\u2019s obviously things around water\u2014and bottled water is one example of that\u2014but I think the most crucial aspect relates to the land. When the bill was first introduced, we thought it was going to place unnecessary restrictions on unproductive farmland. And it\u2019s good that, through the process of the select committee, we\u2019ve ended up with a situation where there are, and will be, exemptions for farmland where it is deemed to be unproductive. Because we think there\u2019s many examples\u2014and I\u2019ve been involved in transactions where deals have not occurred simply because of the worry about issues of sensitive land, which may actually be neighbouring to a business where it\u2019s got its operations located, such as a watercourse or whatever, or just some ordinary issues that actually make the investment much more problematical and brings about a degree of risk. People do not like risk, particularly when you\u2019re investing money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo I think the issue round farmland is very important. There\u2019s still one or two issues in the bill that we still have a little bit of concern about in terms of what they mean, particularly around better recognition of M\u0101ori cultural values, taking into account w\u0101hi t\u016Bpuna, and all that needs to be defined in time, but hopefully through pragmatic regulations and also with better clarity around that, those types of issues will be in a way that people understand, and particularly overseas investors understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe one area that we did have a major point of difference and we think is an absolute loss of opportunity is one that relates to forestry land. As many of you will know, overseas investors are able to purchase up to 999 hectares\u2014that\u2019s 2,200 acres\u2014of land for forestry rights, and the issue is whether in fact that is land that is intended to be planted in forestry or whether in fact it actually has a forest. But these are pieces of legislation that were actually forced through under the previous term of Government, particularly by New Zealand First, who were very keen to see a permissive regime for overseas investors to invest in forestry land in New Zealand, and, to be honest, at the time, we were very, very concerned about it. I do note that Federated Farmers have made some very specific calls about this. They note\u2014and I quote here\u2014\u201CWe have also become increasingly concerned about [the conversion] of productive land to forestry and \u2026 overseas investment regime\u2019s contribution to this. \u2026 The significantly more relaxed overseas investment regime for forestry is just one of the policy drivers for forestry conversions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think when you look in the context of carbon credits, particularly as they\u2019ve increased in value quite rapidly over the past few months, the incentive for not only New Zealand investors but, more importantly, for international investors to buy very good quality farmland and to convert that into forest is a significant issue. Our view was that this was the opportunity to deal with that. We are concerned about the level of conversion. We would prefer that conversion occurs in areas where, basically, there\u2019s unproductive land, but where we see conversion of wonderful farmland into forest, we have a great deal of concern. I think it\u2019s worthwhile reminding ourselves that forestry assets in New Zealand\u2014I think some people will be staggered to learn\u2014the latest assessment I remember seeing was that 72 percent, i.e., roughly three-quarters of all forests in New Zealand, are owned by foreigners. I think that rule that brought it in, the 999 hectare rule, is something that should\u2019ve been addressed in this bill, and that is one of our principal concerns with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut, in the main, the other aspects about streamlining how investments are approved, we\u2019re in the main pretty comfortable with those, and on that basis, we will support the bill. But I can say to you that when we get the time, we will be looking at that forestry issue with some scrutiny, because we don\u2019t believe that the settings we\u2019ve got in place right now are appropriate to support our agricultural farmers and actually are going to lead to perverse outcomes over time and will increasingly be as carbon prices increase. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8e00094a9bf41c8a19e9cbee2278e40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8e00094a9bf41c8a19e9cbee2278e40\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Fa\u2018afetai tele lava. I stand to take a call on the Overseas Investment Bill (No 3). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just returned from a family service for one of Porirua\u2019s finest, with a family service being a prelude to a funeral, for Tauiliili Tumuafa\u2018aetemanu Tuvale Uluilelata, or Joe, as many of us in Porirua knew him. Tonight, hundreds of people gathered at the EFKS Ketesse Manu Church, or the Samoan Congregational Church, on Spicer Hill to remember a good, kind, and humble man. Joe was a taxi driver in Porirua for Porirua Taxis for 40 years, and he was a father figure to many, but, most importantly, a husband to Sera, a father to Eddie, Philippa, Magele, and papa to many, including his great-grandchild, Lenny. Manuia lou malaga, Joe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, some may ask: how does this story of a humble taxi driver called Joe link to the Overseas Investment Act and bill? To me, it\u2019s simple. Joe chose to bring up his family here in New Zealand, the land of milk and honey, a place where children can receive quality education, experience the stable political system, and one could get ahead with support or hard work. The purpose of the Overseas Investment Act recognises that we are, in fact, the land of milk and honey, where we can grow, cultivate, and harvest our food, where our land is productive and our fisheries, forestry, and natural and physical resources are a rare privilege that is worthy of protection. It seeks to protect the privilege we have here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo this bill, as the Minister has said, is the final stage in the Government\u2019s reform. Hence the title\u2014it\u2019s \u201C(No 3)\u201D. This bill endeavours to balance the protection of our important assets while still being attractive to productive foreign investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI would like to focus my contribution on two specific protections within this bill that the committee took a lot of time scrutinising, and I\u2019d like to take the time to thank officials from Treasury and the Overseas Investment Office for their time on the bill. So the first one I want to focus on is the information for tax purposes, having come from a tax background. So clause 16, which adds new section 38A, proposes a section to make regulations to impose requirements where an overseas person who makes or applies to make an investment in sensitive New Zealand assets must provide information to the Commissioner of Inland Revenue. Information that the commissioner considers necessary or relevant for the administration or enforcement of an inland revenue Act or, two, for the administration or enforcement of any matter connected with the lawfulness of the powers of the commissioner. What that information is, by whom, etc., etc., will be set out in regulations, so that particular clause gives an Order in Council - making power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, during the select committee process, there were some concerns raised around privacy and whether this section removes the right to privacy for an individual or an entity who\u2019s an overseas investor. So we sought the advice from the Privacy Commissioner, who confirmed officials\u2019 advice for us that clause 16 was actually consistent with the Privacy Act because it established a lawful purpose, and that, for the regulator, was the Overseas Investment Office to collect tax information to support compliance matters and then share that information with IRD. If we want foreign investors to invest in New Zealand, then surely we want them also to be compliant with the tax laws that apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIn the second part of my contribution, I just wanted to focus briefly on the national interest test, especially in relation to the call-in powers. So the urgent measures Act that came in last year added a national security and public order call-in power to overseas investments. The call-in power enables the Government to screen overseas investments in significant, strategically important businesses, and it also allows that the Government can impose conditions or, in extreme cases, actually, block investments that pose a significant national security or that pose a public order risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe call-in powers are actually due to come in once the temporary emergency notification regime, which is in the urgent measures Act, once that\u2019s repealed and once this bill has come into force, and some submitters during the select committee stage raised their concerns about the scope of the call-in power. They advised that it was too broad and, therefore, it would inadvertently capture transactions which were never intended to be covered by the provisions. We heard from submitters that this would include routine purchases that are retail in nature. So the committee gave it great thought and decided that what we did was we would recommend amending the bill to limit the scope of the call-in power. This power would then only apply to transactions that actually pose a risk to New Zealand\u2019s national security, with two specific exemptions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo the committee spent a lot of time with this. We\u2019d like to thank the number of submitters that came to us and who provided really in-depth and considered submissions. As the Minister said, New Zealand continues to be open for business. The purpose of this bill, combined with all the other changes that the Government has put through, is to improve New Zealand\u2019s economic settings and to achieve a balance between welcoming investment and the need to protect our most sensitive assets. That means it will set us up to be able to make the most of the coming decades of economic change and transformation and, most importantly, to ensure we protect our land of milk and honey. So I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022852d1d89849c416db193a54cb5f46ac0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022852d1d89849c416db193a54cb5f46ac0\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on behalf of the Green Party on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). Really, as the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee said this is a technical bill and it\u2019s quite complicated. So I really acknowledge the changes to Standing Orders and the legislative statement, which is now provided by the Minister, because that and the select committee\u2019s report is a very good summary of the content of the bill and the changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party does support the bill but has a few issues with it. Like others, we really acknowledge the high quality of the submissions that came before the select committee for their very thoughtful analysis of the current regime, some of the issues with that, and the very practical suggestions for changes, the work that was done by Treasury officials, officials from the Overseas Investment Office, and the select committee staff for their contribution. I acknowledge the work of Dr Duncan Webb as chair in overseeing some quite, as he said, robust discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo one of the key things that the Green Party really strongly supports is the stronger protection for farmland. Because one of the first things that the Labour-led Government did last term was to change the ministerial directive letter to the Overseas Investment Office around the benefit test for farmland to better protect that, better recognise that an overseas persons seeking to buy farmland in New Zealand is a privilege. What this bill does is put into law that more stringent test around the benefit to New Zealand. It expands the Minister\u2019s discretion somewhat, and, as Minister Parker said, it really entrenches that rather than just having it in a letter to the agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also really supportive of the greater recognition of M\u0101ori cultural values when that\u2019s being considered, in terms of things like w\u0101hi tapu, when there is an application to purchase farm land. The bill makes a number of significant changes around the whole application of the national interest test because with the urgent measures bill which came before the House previously, that was done at speed, and there was a lot of feedback that that was too expansive in the way it operated. And therefore, this is a much, in the bill, more proportionate in terms of the sensitivity of the land and the nature of the overseas investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re really supportive too of the provisions around water bottling, increased consideration of sustainability issues and water quality issues, when there is a proposed investment on sensitive land for bulk water extraction or water bottling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnother significant improvement is around the good character test, which in the existing law is often too diffuse in the way it\u2019s applied. What the bill does, it goes to factors like criminal offences, civil offences, whether there\u2019s been any issue of tax evasion, and the bill also includes enhanced measures around tax disclosures by overseas persons when they are seeking to acquire significant business assets, which can be a really useful fact for decision makers to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that we have with the bill, and agree with\u2014don\u2019t often agree with Andrew Bayly. But the concerns around forestry\u2014it is far too permissive a regime for overseas investors seeking to acquire land for forestry that resulted, as Andrew Bayly noted, from changes which New Zealand First promoted last term, and we are seeing land going to forestry with a different and much easier test than applies to farmland, with a lack of that need to really prove that there are benefits to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo there is a real opportunity and, perhaps, we will see that in Supplementary Order Papers in the committee stages, to change the provisions around that so that forestry is on a level playing field with other applications for purchase of farmland. Not the preferential position\u2014the primrose path\u2014that currently applies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the areas that the Green Party disagreed with the majority on select committee was the issue around what constitutes productive farmland. I\u2019m reminded of the issue of Foulden Maar in Otago, an internationally important fossil site, which an overseas company, Plaman Resources, sought to purchase to mine diatomite. Now, that was not productive farmland, it wasn\u2019t returning much, it was a very dry\u2014I think it was formerly a sheep farm\u2014but there was a huge opposition by the local community to this land being potentially sold offshore for diatomite mining because of the significance of the fossil sites there, both internationally and because of the company, for which geological epoch it was\u2014but they were internationally important. So that wouldn\u2019t be considered productive farmland. So the narrowing of the test around productive farmland, we think, could potentially lead to rural land that is important for other values not being given the weight that productive farmland is when the Minister comes to consider it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue is around the way in which the benefit to New Zealand test operates. The fact that the changes that the select committee is recommending mean that the Minister is not able to take into account negative impacts, normally when a cost-benefit analysis is done, you look at the positive impacts and the detrimental ones. Yes, there was a High Court decision, but the way in which the law is evolving here, in the Green Party view, is contrary to common sense and focuses largely on a very narrow definition of benefits, which means that decision makers\u2014Ministers\u2014cannot weigh the negative and detrimental impacts, which we don\u2019t think is commonsensical. And it\u2019s not just Resource Management Act (RMA) issues here, but being able to look and make an overall broad judgment, which is the way decisions have been made in other areas of the law, such as the RMA, but is being excluded from happening in terms of assessing whether an application to purchase farmland is to the benefit of New Zealand. You should be able to weigh the impacts of that as well as the economic benefits. So, overall, support the bill but still have some outstanding concerns with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20210511e5e695adff804625b4c6e404f17cee0b000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"