"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226240ad404fc243ceb1148ca5b7711a70\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 19 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d6c34b86e7a48328b8905afa6941507\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 19 MAY 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022237eaa3f9d864dc590498132a68f1a28\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddf6deac9ef5496780fbf380979e0a15\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002214f124169c3545428e281cecb9024203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214f124169c3545428e281cecb9024203\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c138602561934f4e9a3e86bfdfec402f\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b39aa23f3d8f4275b839844168228e77\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002243329fa85b92451faea4a01af3689158\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243329fa85b92451faea4a01af3689158\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, no papers have been presented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EA petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002223bbb9162d3f473b944e50894b93edb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223bbb9162d3f473b944e50894b93edb9\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Daniel Roberts requesting that the House urge the Government to recommend that Waka Kotahi install a roundabout at the intersection of State Highway 2 and Sharp Road in Katikati.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002276ff971f533a4ceeb67b5dff70f573db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276ff971f533a4ceeb67b5dff70f573db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EA select committee report has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e43368c4db1b451bbc2370ccdb279a95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e43368c4db1b451bbc2370ccdb279a95\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Justice Committee on the Family Court (Supporting Children in Court) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223329c342a0f845e8ab6bf8330ac1a649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223329c342a0f845e8ab6bf8330ac1a649\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe Clerk has been informed of the introduction of bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d75adf3bf3574d47ab54deccbcafde7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d75adf3bf3574d47ab54deccbcafde7c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Maru (Taranaki) Claims Settlement Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMaritime Transport (MARPOL Annex VI) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMedicines Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002238d5fa492fe84200a87e5f365ff5e8d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d5fa492fe84200a87e5f365ff5e8d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee8272aad33f4e2e9fe69a1ccc589327\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c0fb949e63f41d28bba71d39edb0b3e\u0022\u003ERecognition of the State of Palestine\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dafab617cfb945d09858de612f29fc01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dafab617cfb945d09858de612f29fc01\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave of the House to move member\u2019s motion No. 8 in my name on the recognition of the State of Palestine without debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002229c4a903152c4b18bcc032501936795c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229c4a903152c4b18bcc032501936795c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a284f92095e450ba1ec6ff206210420\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230e02d822d7748d09aa0013725a8afd2\u0022\u003EMotions\u2014Seeking Leave to Move\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221cd58ce2102e46d59d2c018690dc4a07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cd58ce2102e46d59d2c018690dc4a07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do want to remind members of the processes involved in seeking leave for notices and that is\u2014and it\u2019s been ruled on a number of times now\u2014that members are to, before the House sits, ascertain whether leave is to be received or not for those notices, and to seek leave to move something when a member knows permission is not going to be given is disorderly. It\u2019s not a debatable matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb7d0834bccb45b09b9a27e481290fc6\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002291a718034876439bbbdb6fe8b7b5a713\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f82cc50ae9847158ea222d21ddc11b6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221de0741ab74147da93ec731c730f609a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221de0741ab74147da93ec731c730f609a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002208e480a52ce240938389543eb99097cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208e480a52ce240938389543eb99097cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the decision to invest $1.4 billion in New Zealand\u2019s COVID-19 vaccination programme to ensure every New Zealander can receive a free vaccination. The COVID-19 vaccination programme is key to securing our economic recovery. We\u2019ll continue to face uncertainties over the coming year, as COVID-19 spreads and evolves globally, and it\u2019s critical we keep investing in our health response to keep New Zealanders safe. We\u2019ve sufficient doses to vaccinate every New Zealander for free and support our Pacific neighbours. Additional vaccines deemed safe and effective can be deferred for later use and further donated to support regional recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c927e71686b54b23b4b7a4bced5a2a1f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Will all New Zealanders be able to get a COVID vaccine by the end of this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618641396e1848c7b758f6704596eb8b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, based on the arrangements that we have with Pfizer, we will have vaccines available in order for all New Zealanders to be able to access a vaccine this year. What we all have a duty to do is encourage New Zealanders to do so. We have seen\u2014and this is really heartening\u2014a decrease in the hesitancy. We continually keep an eye on what\u2019s happening with New Zealanders\u2019 perspective of the vaccine, and over time, as people are being vaccinated, we\u2019re seeing a decline in that hesitancy. But you see globally, even in countries who have been very early adopters with their roll-out, a little bit of plateauing in that vaccination uptake, and we hope that\u2019s not something we experience here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9c50915c2f643b2aad13c0b1115476f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Local Government Funding Agency chief executive, Mark Butcher, warning new centralised water entities will face higher borrowing costs than councils as they seek to invest up to $185 billion in new water infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb3d26185d90443f80c56a23e75fba4d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: This was actually the analysis that I spoke to yesterday, and it\u2019s one of the reasons that we have been undertaking the three waters reforms. It was instigated by the fact that we had a community who was devastated by such a significant failure in the provision of safe drinking water, and when we then took a look across the water infrastructure across the country, we saw consistent lack of investment\u2014for a number of reasons, but consistent lack of investment. The current local government investment rate is about $1.5 billion annually, or $45 billion over the next 30 years, and as the member has just highlighted, analysis suggests that over the next 30 to 40 years, it could need to be between $120 billion and $185 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a467b51fd4426395a960c8eac21aac\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to Mayor Phil Goff\u2019s 13 May letter to her and other Ministers that states, \u201CThank you for your letter received 5 May 2021 about the proposed three waters service delivery reform. I am not convinced that the proposed governance arrangements will improve efficiency for Auckland. Auckland has worked cooperatively with DIA; however, the current structure proposed is unlikely to find favour with Auckland and its council.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf6034127154fb2b3a75d3726a31549\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We continue to work alongside Auckland Council because we take a different view. Obviously, we have to look at water provision and infrastructure through a national lens; Mayor Phil Goff, of course, looks at it through an Auckland lens. Our perspective is that, regardless, actually, there are benefits to Aucklanders by being a part of the three waters programme, but some of the issues that, for instance, Mayor Goff has raised are whether or not he wishes to sit alongside the provision and infrastructure investment of the likes of Northland, whereas, of course, if you take a \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D approach, we all need to see healthy drinking water across the country, no matter where you are a ratepayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224248107cd1e14dc787bcf70ab3e5a77a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Mayor Phil Goff that the Government\u2019s proposal that \u201CThe governors\u2019 representative group will comprise representatives ranging from four to six local authorities, and up to 50 iwi. Gaining consensus among all the parties is likely to be a time-consuming and expensive undertaking.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3f0e7aec714714afd9ce63476baa46\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The alternative is that we continue with the current arrangements, where, as I have just identified, we have significant under-investment in the infrastructure we all rely on. I would point to the fact that, actually, by and large, we have significant support across local government. There are a few cases where we have some mayors who take an alternative view. We are working closely alongside them, but, by and large, Local Government New Zealand and many mayors and councils recognise that we have a problem and that we need to work together to find a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca0897065d849199ffc7e4e19dd247f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Can she rule out a water governance structure for the upper North Island where elected representatives are not a majority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214489f1a49994fe7842033d9dc24d4ce\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve made no final decisions on the shape of arrangements for a more consolidated approach to governance, but what I can say is that, to date, the member\u2019s claims around some of these discussions have been patently incorrect. The member, for instance, put out a press statement on Sunday claiming, of course, that there would be ownership of assets by, for instance, Ng\u0101i Tahu. That is wrong. Ng\u0101i Tahu refuted it themselves. So I would say to the member again, if you want to join the debate, I would encourage you to. Firstly, a conversation with representatives from Local Government New Zealand would be a helpful start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed76a4f0ab04ba4a98d5d7370af1075\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will go to the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, but I would remind the Prime Minister that when she addresses \u201Cyou\u201D, she means me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242dda10655b54aca92a0e685751a53ae\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of reports in Auckland where stormwater overflow going into beaches in Auckland makes them unswimmable, and that, in effect, is another reason why there needs to be change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022927cf7602c56459aabe5add2981467c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and I would also recognise in recent times, of course, significant draw on Waikato River. This is where we need to recognise that, actually, we are frequently crossing over simple territorial boundaries, so it makes sense for us to be having these conversations at a much wider level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e1da9a10ea4b0a95a6d489da3d6389\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Mayor Phil Goff that \u201CWithout elected representatives able to ensure real accountability, the organisation runs the risk of becoming self-centred, with very highly paid executives not hearing public concerns.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0639cc20d8e4209876f9861501f4202\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284b8196f969641e2a030e1068ed3c9b0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Will all of the new water entities have iwi co-governance; in which case, how will that look?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214f8e41da8614bb0991a4dfd532cf2bf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, we have not made final decisions on the governance arrangements for the water entities. However, again, the member may wish to start her conversation with Local Government New Zealand. They themselves, and in many regions and districts, have instigated conversations directly with iwi representatives as they work through these issues. It only seems to be the member herself who views that as a negative thing, when Local Government New Zealand has been a part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022072b7b1d43cf4b199468d84050723616\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a copy of a letter on the Office of the Mayor of Auckland\u2019s letterhead dated 13 May 2021, to which I have referred in my questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985473461c934cbab22de37532f0da8f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that letter being tabled? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f96c1f974914a42aa247114932d070a\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave to table a response to Mayor Goff on 23 May, in relation to the letter being tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0fb463feec45c7884a611e71fd91c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that letter being tabled? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782b95307cb54271a6fd15fced127743\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order, Mr Speaker. How can the member seek leave to table a letter dated a day that hasn\u2019t actually occurred yet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be164b9984845eeb430d046de0303ca\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, my apologies; I misquoted the date. But can I seek leave to table the response to that letter that is being tabled in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d3fe72fded4d8e979aa638e3bb0f88\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Has it already been tabled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020a7be0877140b98e357e1997420fda\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: No. No it hasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfa6de59fc344a9fac0fd47ff63638d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, OK. Is there any objection\u2014I think we can sum it up pretty easily. Is there any objection in tabling the Minister\u2019s response to the letter referred to by the Leader of the Opposition? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224803bac4523346a09d11773d332e781a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022303834e76c3646069ee10f0e8317bfa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022303834e76c3646069ee10f0e8317bfa1\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the Government\u2019s priorities for Budget 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5e5d2307a484b20afdad1c9847691bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5e5d2307a484b20afdad1c9847691bd\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has three priorities for this term that are reflected in Budget 2021: keeping New Zealanders safe from COVID-19; accelerating our recovery and rebuild; and tackling our foundational challenges, including housing affordability, climate change, and child wellbeing. Of course, not all manifesto commitments can be delivered in one Budget, but Budget 2021 should be seen as step one in a package of Budgets this term to be delivered to meet the Government\u2019s goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240b70f68e6ba41f7a2a5166004ece95e\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How are the Government\u2019s wellbeing objectives being reflected in Budget 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c80c2507864d0db621af43f3a2e555\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Every initiative that comes through the Budget process is assessed against the wellbeing objectives, project readiness, and value for money. The wellbeing objectives for Budget 2021 are enduring from the previous two Budgets. They are a just transition to a low-emissions economy; enabling all New Zealanders to benefit from the future of work; lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities; child wellbeing; and physical and mental wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4afb4e39164868ab82c6c6dbd4387f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the economic context for Budget 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55ac949246d4dab8353ae01c8ac163b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Our economic recovery is on a sound footing. Many economic indicators are showing better than expected results, and this reflects the resilience of New Zealand\u2019s economy and the confidence in the Government\u2019s recovery plan. The devastating impact of the COVID-19 pandemic is still being felt all over the world, reminding us that we are still in a volatile global economic environment. While our economy is doing well, we are also mindful of the borrowing that we\u2019ve undertaken to support New Zealanders through COVID-19. Budget 2021 will reflect a balanced approach, emphasising spending to areas and people where it is needed most, alongside careful fiscal management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a6eba43ed194e9ebff04c76572a9131\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister considered rethinking his priorities, given the report today from Baker Tilly Staples Rodway, which showed that 71 percent of New Zealand companies are unhappy with Labour\u2019s post-COVID strategy and 68 percent believed it was poorly managing the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299ff92da990d41789251f4eb3438cd17\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, no. The Government is committed to the plan and strategy that we have. It is one that has seen businesses in New Zealand thrive and our unemployment rate come in at one of the lowest in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b2380a70413482ca62208e4b40ac0ee\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00226b746a0cbd724ab5b27e40f5c97b890d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b746a0cbd724ab5b27e40f5c97b890d\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002287528b88eca94d3faca38125999b5947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287528b88eca94d3faca38125999b5947\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea2576c285b5416a885caea9a43f05be\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the $197.9 million annual free health check for seniors will be cancelled tomorrow, as he suggested in his Budget letter to the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b517630b2e444dffab8f1eed8094e865\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m presuming that the letter the member refers to is the letter that he had in his press statement yesterday, which was a draft letter prepared by the Ministry of Health. It is not a letter that the Minister of Health sent to the Minister of Finance. And as for what\u2019s in the Budget tomorrow, the member just has one more sleep to wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220770d5825ff14c5abc9a60364b824fd9\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: When he wrote in his Budget letter to the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51d227e219d46e99d9dedd45a0ef36b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m just going to remind the member that he\u2019s been given a direct rebuttal of whether the letter which the member\u2019s been quoting from is in fact a letter that\u2019s been sent to the Minister of Finance. I think if the member referred to the ministry draft, he might well be allowed to ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233702bf25b8e4a92b3689e7d62ea0209\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: When he wrote in a ministry draft\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65b273777594fdc85c00a69579fab14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3718973676b403497c3ea24d50c0ed4\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or in a ministry draft to the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson, that he was seeking 20 mobile dental clinics and a $200 million Pharmac boost in Budget 2021, how much more could he have done if there were not costs associated with restructuring the health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096706ee71654c4398c26881bff23fdd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I just refer the member to the previous answer that it was a draft prepared by the Ministry of Health. The Minister of Health did not agree with much of what was in the draft and it was never sent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e691c35f5ff649fd814ff6c84541d7e0\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: When he cited a draft letter to Grant Robertson saying he could seek less funding in Budget 2021 by reducing specialist services at provincial hospitals, how does he explain that to rural communities who rely on their local hospital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694fe210a016492eb0acf23b9f6164c3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Those rural communities can have confidence that the Minister of Health did not agree with the contents of the draft letter, rejected it\u2014never sent it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338ecd46f6ea41b8ab469e9f340aec54\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: In the draft letter he refers to, to Grant Robertson, saying he could seek less funding in Budget 2021 by changing the eligibility for aged residential care and disability related services, does he stand by those statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0072c408d4c4751884b6a676bf5b842\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the biggest challenge we have here is a comprehension one. The letter was not the Minister of Health\u2019s letter. He did not write it, he did not agree with what was in it, and he did not send it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee326e789041464ab0a2f7b4b7db6164\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: He signed it. How could he not send it if he signed it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210eddd9e3a2a446f9939606e8e3ff2f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Very clear statements from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bfb1dd86e6f4cdeba3c7247e843b14a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8614a9d4a8643c49add812f4d5943be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8614a9d4a8643c49add812f4d5943be\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CInequality has progressed almost as rapidly as development\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00224d431b6651cd4de6a3b14911ac529622\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d431b6651cd4de6a3b14911ac529622\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my full statement, which was made at a United Nations - related event in September 2019 where I was talking about the global context. The full statement was: \u201CThe world has changed immeasurably since then. \u2026 Inequality has progressed almost as rapidly as development. But thankfully some values endure. In Aotearoa New Zealand, we have always tried to look out for each other, and do [the] right [thing] by one another. Our track record of striving for equality, and our values of compassion and fairness are sources of national pride. But that hasn\u2019t always translated into the progress and gains we need.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7257dd6a7b2456c81646fc9972c5764\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the statement of Jacinda Ardern that 40 percent of New Zealanders having 3 percent of the country\u2019s wealth is a \u201Cmarker of political failure\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220614ce770ef34765a992a38f1455a03b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would refer to the fact that even as an international community within the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, there is specifically a reference to trying to see a greater speed of growth in the incomes for those who are on the lowest 40 percent, and whilst we want to see growth in people\u2019s incomes generally, we need to see more rapid growth at that end if we are able to do something about inequality. In New Zealand, we haven\u2019t seen the same pace of growth in that lower quartile, and that\u2019s been a consistent issue for a number of years. It\u2019s something traversed and picked up on by Bryan Perry in our household income surveys. It\u2019s something that we continue as a Government to try and address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022806c39aa381944d08f6b091058a43d14\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What, then, does it say about her Government that, under its time, wealth inequality has increased and now 50 percent of New Zealanders hold just 2 percent of assets, according to the latest household economic survey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b1d8155904e4f3ebfc037c0bfcdb9e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Whether or not you look at, for instance, what we\u2019re trying to do in the housing market, or whether or not you look at, even, things like the reason that we were so focused in our recently released pay guidance to lift those who are on the lowest incomes at a faster rate\u2014that is all about the work we\u2019re trying to do to deal with inequality in New Zealand. No one on this side of the House is sitting on our laurels saying that we have made all of the progress needed. Our view is we haven\u2019t. As I\u2019ve said, that has been a consistent problem right through from the 1980s through to more recently. So it is something that we are working hard to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2a5738a81e4c3c85cf9c56f581af65\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House and the people of New Zealand when her policies will start working to reverse the growing wealth inequality under her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7058f594d56419284cc5761fe29112b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would point to the child poverty indicators, which are an indication of both relative poverty and also inequality, because they are measures, by and large, of the number of people living on 50 percent or less of the median income in New Zealand. And we have seen, against our baselines, a decline in poverty across those nine measures. It hasn\u2019t been at the pace that we would like, but we are starting to see the difference our policies are making. Our view is we just need to keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a5d87830b4450db1fa36325f0fdf85\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that many middle-income New Zealanders are feeling squeezed; and will Budget 2021 provide any tax relief to those who rely on earning money to provide for themselves and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225243798580fd4e9c95883fc21a1be6a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: To that I would say the Budget is tomorrow and people will make their own assessments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022476675169e3e46c9a61c6ff651f8ced5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u0022388d0cabdc7e431dbc7dc8b19fb67824\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022388d0cabdc7e431dbc7dc8b19fb67824\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What investment has the Government made in New Zealand\u2019s COVID-19 vaccination programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8ef9bbcdf2d4b4b92dbcfee6bd653ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8ef9bbcdf2d4b4b92dbcfee6bd653ca\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is investing $1.4 billion in New Zealand\u2019s COVID-19 vaccination programme to ensure that every New Zealander can receive a free vaccination. Our health response has been strong and successful so far, but we are taking nothing for granted. Setting aside $1.4 billion for vaccines and for the infrastructure associated with that means that New Zealand is well placed to meet our COVID-19 challenges head on. It is a massive investment as we continue to support what is the biggest single undertaking the health system has faced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226868f307a7c447eba0a9b20232180102\u0022\u003EDr Gaurav Sharma\u003C/span\u003E: How does the investment specifically contribute to New Zealand\u2019s vaccination programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f6fe893b1ff45029102564271fb87ff\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of that $1.4 billion, $964.3 million of that is for the advance purchase and the COVAX facility purchases that will support equitable access to COVID-19 vaccines; $66.3 million covers the cost of specialist vaccine equipment, including syringes and related vaccine storage facilities and transport; the remaining $356.9 million has been allocated for technology to support the roll-out, funding for DHBs, ongoing support for Medsafe, and to stand up community immunisation centres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7dbc87106ff4f0b88ff2f2a086887d7\u0022\u003EDr Gaurav Sharma\u003C/span\u003E: How is the investment already supporting the vaccination roll-out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772a3c52f9d2499c8bf564dec8e9bb9c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This investment means that we can continue to scale-up our vaccination programme across the country as extra vaccines arrive in the country. As of midnight last night, we have so far delivered 474,435 doses of the vaccine across New Zealand. Within that, more than 152,000 New Zealanders have received their second doses, meaning that they are receiving the maximum protection from the vaccine. Just yesterday, we delivered 14,000 doses nationally, and we expect to hit the half-million doses mark within the next 48 hours. We know that the COVID-19 vaccination programme is key to securing our economic recovery, and that the effect of an ongoing vaccination of the community will unlock additional economic opportunities and allow us, over time, to safely reopen our borders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb3e984c51644148b20dba5a09b72ace\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f919ae10e6da4c7bb6602516d5fa236b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f919ae10e6da4c7bb6602516d5fa236b\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of the statements he has made in his past Budget day speeches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022647d80cb5dcf450aa7c4da9d0219746c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022647d80cb5dcf450aa7c4da9d0219746c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made, which includes the fact that there has been a global pandemic in the middle of them. In particular, I stand by my statement in the 2020 Budget speech that \u201COur recovery and rebuild will be based on getting New Zealanders back to work.\u201D, given the latest unemployment numbers from Statistics New Zealand show that the unemployment rate fell to 4.7 percent in the March quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a71ac7eda27147fa9b88d4c08fa0f8ba\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his 2017 mini-Budget statement that the first-year tertiary fees-free programme would be \u201Cone of the most transformative policies for productivity of the New Zealand economy.\u201D, given that enrolment numbers have decreased in every year since 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368eb55463464b2597f142203e74a104\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to give the member another crack at doing it. The primary question is about Budget day statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d26e4b21488401a8ed5ebd8ac866e47\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: These are direct quotes from Budget day speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8b35057e644041bd86ded21aed3df1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member said it was from a 2017 mini-Budget. The Budget in 2017 was done by Steven Joyce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6058a38459a4841be09e73a1c4c9e28\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: This is the mini-Budget 2017 that the Minister gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a7c4e53bde4edd9870d6aa07d02645\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member resumes his seat when I stand up. That\u2019s one of the basic things. I\u2019m going to let\u2014you know, in the interests of being a bit flexible\u2014[Interruption] Who said that? That member will leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ENicola Willis withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022687c9119acf54142b24e5af66c605bf0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, that\u2019s my job!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f7268f674954a4aaf1bf47eac9faaf0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s not even Thursday, Mr Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286ecba11a0f84bc88674f9b9b420c1b4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I can\u2019t do it on Thursday; it\u2019s Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f539b812166a43148b4b034fc526f1a0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows every day is a day he could be kicked out if he wanted to be. Now, I\u2019m just going back to Mr Bayly. He\u2019s been quite inexact in his approach to this question. A mini-Budget is not a Budget day. Members know that the Budget process is one which is well set out in Standing Orders and in the traditions of the New Zealand Parliament, and it\u2019s important to get things right. While I\u2019m on my feet, I will indicate to him that last Thursday, when he repeatedly told me that the Australian Budget was on Wednesday, he was wrong; it was on the Tuesday. I\u2019ll just say that I have been listening to the Australian Budget for about 35 years, so I do know which day it\u2019s on. Now I\u2019m going to let the Minister answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022006022323c0e4e8b87fe75cd43ad1b22\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re very proud of the fact that the fees-free policy has seen many people enter post - secondary school education who wouldn\u2019t have before, and we are very ambitious for all New Zealanders to get that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252fb63ae77ce407089f8566729174238\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Budget 2018 statement that his \u201Cambitious Kiwibuild programme\u201D will \u201Cdeliver 100,000 long-overdue affordable houses\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f252d34910494426bc0702547078d14c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by this Government\u2019s commitment to making sure that we provide affordable housing for all New Zealanders. I stand by the fact that this Government has tried our level best to support the building of affordable houses across New Zealand. The member knows that the KiwiBuild programme has been reorganised since that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c700724bc67d4182a2a4b23316af4f4d\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Budget 2018 statement that the Green Investment Fund will \u201Ckickstart investment in [the] assets and technology to reduce carbon emissions\u201D, in light of New Zealand currently importing a record amount of coal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343c37e1f55647fba4eb59b680708993\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly stand by that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c20442aeae43b4808c16695e38e793\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Budget 2020 statement that by \u201Cproviding $670 million of support and services [for] tenants\u201D he would \u201Cimprove affordability [and increase] the supply of houses,\u201D given rents have risen by $40 per week since he made that statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e13682de5d6c45399d2965fa92b97bc2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was hard to deduce the question among the quotes, but I stand by what we\u2019re doing to support all New Zealanders to live in warm, safe, dry, and affordable housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223cc6a597a5b346ddbce8cf3211ad64cd\u0022\u003EQuestion No 7\u2014Arts, Culture and Heritage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002200f51c37426d481f8fcb9475f5569e18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200f51c37426d481f8fcb9475f5569e18\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What recent reports has she seen on the arts and culture sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00224b1a6e7ccf7d4f1297c0763470208018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b1a6e7ccf7d4f1297c0763470208018\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I released the latest forecast by Infometrics, which shows that the arts and culture sector is performing better than predicted. The updated forecast shows a decrease in the number of available jobs in the sector of just over 1 percent and an increase in cultural sector jobs from 2022 through to 2026. The sector has benefited from our Government\u2019s strong focus on securing our recovery. It reflects the impact of our $374 million COVID recovery programme for the sector and our continued focus to keep people in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cc0104584814cbd88f837ff0c1deea2\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: How did these forecasts differ from previous forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180b25746c394051b4cc80fefdc0bc21\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: In April 2020, Infometrics provided a forecast of the economic impact of COVID-19 on the arts and creative sector. This included a job losses forecast and a sector GDP forecast. This forecast predicted an 11.7 percent reduction in employment and a loss of around 11,000 jobs to March 2021. In February 2021, Infometrics provided a new sector forecast to March 2021 which showed a decline in employment of 1.2 percent, a loss of 1,157 jobs. This forecast decline is significantly lower than the April 2020 forecast and is a positive sign that our Government\u2019s interventions are helping to secure our recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3577428baf4bf19a0302e5f7202df2\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has she seen on the arts and culture sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc86a7597d214ca9afb0086d0d2365c5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: A separate report by Colmar Brunton aimed at understanding audience participation in the cultural sector shows that people are keen to return to shows, museums, art galleries, and other cultural events. The report found that only 12 percent of people attended a New Zealand music event as of late 2020, 41 percent say they would attend an event in the next 12 months. This is both pleasing but also important, because the arts and culture sector contributes nearly $11 billion a year to GDP and is a workforce that employs over 90,000 people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc49c2d63a74d4faac0bbce5646d998\u0022\u003ESimon O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister comfortable with taxpayers shelling out thousands of dollars for multiple Te Papa personnel to attend the funeral of a turtle, or has she asked them, somewhat ironically, to get a move on and personally pay it back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b42db89f154a9aa61053b6f9822765\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think that question is an indication or a reflection of how seriously that side of the House takes our art, culture, and heritage sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8423e4d54d64a5da8f3ca0dddab46a9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6fe2cd943ae48078ee7b4585267f38f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6fe2cd943ae48078ee7b4585267f38f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What advice, if any, has he sought on the Controller and Auditor-General\u2019s report Preparations for the nationwide roll-out of the Covid-19 vaccine, and what is his response to the comment in the report, \u201CI am not yet confident that all of the pieces will fall into place quickly enough for the immunisation programme to reach the level of vaccinations required for the Government to meet its goals\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022df5c898ff63a442eb4a197eeeb2bcb97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df5c898ff63a442eb4a197eeeb2bcb97\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve asked the Ministry of Health to provide me with a further update on progress on the recommendations made by the Controller and Auditor-General. I\u2019ve already received several verbal updates from the Ministry of Health on their response to the report, and they released a response yesterday to all six recommendations on their website. In response to the second part of the question, this is the largest vaccination programme in New Zealand\u2019s history. There are undoubtedly going to be challenges as we scale up the pace to deliver a two-dose vaccine with unique cold chain storage requirements. I am confident in the progress that we\u2019ve seen to date and that the planning for the scale up is going well. The delivery by district health boards is ahead of targets and, coupled with good planning, design, and consultation, the preparations for the second half of the year are going well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e5aafded494fa38ec5904748ed60b9\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of why the ministry was not able to provide the Auditor-General with a copy of an immunisation strategy despite Cabinet inviting the ministry in August 2020 to produce one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228489da56de7a4b299763343d7db119bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Auditor-General\u2019s primary focus with regard to this report was to look at the readiness for the roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccination. In terms of wider questions around immunisation, I don\u2019t have ministerial responsibility for those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6f2fee6f8d4403fafdd8d69bc3b1715\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say this morning, responding to the Auditor-General\u2019s report, that the COVID-19 vaccine roll-out would, in his words, \u201Croll on into next year if Kiwis fail to show up when they should\u201D, when Kiwis have been showing up on time only to be turned away at vaccine stations through no fault of their own?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d2492634ef479d8238552c55167ff7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: What we\u2019re seeing around the world in those countries that are well ahead in their vaccination campaign efforts is that demand is starting to plateau at around 60 percent of the eligible population. If that does happen in New Zealand, then that is the sort of thing that would push our vaccination campaign into the new year. We\u2019re working very hard to avoid that, but, ultimately, those administering the vaccine have a limited degree of control over that. All New Zealanders need to come forward and get the vaccine when they are offered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4353fa56d094131b205489dbe14e449\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe the COVID-19 vaccine programme has the full public trust and confidence in light of New Zealand being ranked second bottom in the OECD in terms of speed of vaccine roll-out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f68708413c4b9dbe144ab8bd4edb5b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The biggest constraint on the speed of our roll-out, as I\u2019ve said many times, has been getting vaccines into the country. It has been supply rather than the roll-out that has been constraining that. We made the decision in January to adopt a Pfizer-based campaign. Pfizer were very clear at the time that that meant the bulk of our deliveries would be from July onwards\u2014generally, in the July through to September period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223349d4c437974c5c8d892b6c029f4829\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Ministry of Health supply to the Auditor-General a copy of the illustration of volumes and timing of the vaccine roll-out graph, which can no longer be found on the Ministry of Health website and which he says is only illustrative and approximate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235759a356d2b4e7b8a12b4f5e5096fcb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is the Ministry of Health provided to the Auditor-General whatever information the Auditor-General asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002256613f2e7bbe4173b13e135670d14b3d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u00224f92cafc69fd41f5955093dc5007a335\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f92cafc69fd41f5955093dc5007a335\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What support is New Zealand providing to the Pacific to help them recover from the impacts of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00224a6f374d87194878a01ae2b376bb9854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a6f374d87194878a01ae2b376bb9854\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this month, alongside Associate Minister Aupito William Sio, we announced that we would be providing COVID-19 vaccines to cover at least 1.2 million people in the Pacific over the coming year, and that we\u2019re supporting the Pacific region with an additional $120 million in official development assistance to support the Pacific economies to recover from the impacts of COVID-19. We know COVID has had a significant impact on the Pacific, which is why we are supporting the health and wellbeing of Pacific wh\u0101nau, and helping them to recover and rebuild from the impacts of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c708e03984a42ba9c410e05e778c986\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: Where is New Zealand focusing its attention for the vaccine roll-out in the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228257c63f00e54905bc465321203854bc\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: We are working with Australia and other partners on the roll-out, and together our goal is access to safe and effective vaccines for all eligible people in Pacific Island countries, at the earliest possible time. New Zealand is focusing on our Realm countries and Polynesia, with the roll-out to the Cook Islands beginning this week. Next month, we expect to start the roll-out to Niue, and planning is under way for Tokelau. We are also working with the Governments of Samoa, Tonga, and Tuvalu on New Zealand\u2019s vaccine delivery support. Outside Polynesia, we\u2019re working with UNICEF and the COVAX Facility to access and deliver vaccines. In addition, Fiji has taken up the offer of AstraZeneca doses for 250,000 people, donated by New Zealand, subject to Medsafe approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1bb8fe21a8849b49ceb48ef94d6dd6d\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: How will Pacific Island countries be using the additional $120 million in official development assistance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c29954c8a0e54747acfce8fa07b8a7ea\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: The grant financing will be provided as direct budget support, allowing Pacific Governments to respond flexibly and rapidly to the challenges they are facing, in line with their own objectives and interests. This funding approach recognises that each country will have different priorities for their return towards resilience. The funding will be used by Pacific Governments to support their economic stimulus and recovery plans. The budget support will also be used to continue the social protection programmes that countries have in place to support those negatively impacted by the pandemic, including support for small and medium sized enterprises, and vulnerable workers and households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad580e0b6b50462a94f16c0ed1a4acb0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f76f006a91d94fabb5cea89c4467e106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f76f006a91d94fabb5cea89c4467e106\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with the Prime Minister, who said in relation to New Zealand history being taught in schools, \u201CThis Government is committed to a better New Zealand that we can all be proud of and which recognises the value of every New Zealander\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4282cbe47d243189e6efed0677de116\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4282cbe47d243189e6efed0677de116\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, that\u2019s why the draft curriculum content embraces the histories of all people who live in Aotearoa New Zealand, and encourages schools and kura to develop a local curriculum that reflects the histories of their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e03c2c236934df0b1065c596451508d\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: How will one of the three big ideas in the draft history curriculum\u2014that M\u0101ori history is the continuous history of New Zealand\u2014recognise the value of every New Zealander?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a8368aab9c44b4bb5fda0c1d5ea0bd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I say, as a P\u0101keh\u0101 New Zealander, I do not feel the slightest bit threatened by M\u0101ori history being taught in our schools, and it is something that I hope my kids will have the advantage of learning about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e826f3732d481189a52b1d5e7bc23d\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to teachers who believe that another of the three big ideas\u2014that colonisation continues to influence all aspects of our society\u2014is incorrect and divisive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223639adcc2e314d95b3f33d6e0d3d2047\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to ensure that young people in New Zealand understand all of our history\u2014the good, the bad, and the ugly\u2014and a recognition of the fact that we have passed down, through generations, discrimination that has led to some New Zealanders being disadvantaged in their educational journey, some New Zealanders not receiving the same opportunities as others. If our young people leave school with an understanding of that, that will be a damn good thing. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dc7efdede344914ad35b60cd8235805\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2014he\u2019s catching the Simon Bridges disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022422ceb2672434d338dcf35905becc1da\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Royal Society that major topics are missing from the draft curriculum, including economic change, constitutional issues, and New Zealand\u2019s role in international relations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b930cc1369a4bceb5ce3c7bcb99f398\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I would point out that the New Zealand histories curriculum is not the only thing that we will be teaching in schools. We will continue to teach economics, we will continue to teach social studies, we will continue to teach geography\u2014all of those other subjects that we want our young people to learn. But I would say to the Royal Society of New Zealand, who have made a submission, that that is the appropriate thing to do. We are in a consultation phase at the moment. This is where we want to hear from New Zealanders about what they want to see reflected in our histories curriculum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2c1adc5cf541819cd28cd370a91ba2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 11\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69cff4cf1404e47ace3859d150b0607\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941390ca4cf9469ba48a67604f255421\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4aac3a0ffc94825bfbb52576bf3e020\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, he\u2019s got another one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229432912f057242cdbb1199d6c959246f\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. How will he ensure that the New Zealand history curriculum gives an honest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480cf3789c124a05800efb0b0a54a5e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry, the member\u2019s party has run out of supplementary questions; I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a511b9b9b3464fc8ba0f450efd695637\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Oh bugger, I wanted to hear the rest of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a0cc1ac76143ea8ed91606b5762eff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Was that Mr Waititi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9aa204fe82c4f62a771b0da9028935d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: It might have been Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290af2fc9483d438d8e2b3c8f7788dd39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022383ab2dcdc3e46819caa4bb68d599fc4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Look, if you want to kick me out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23a98337d654d38a9f6dc858ab62f54\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s your Thursday man; I\u2019m your Wednesday man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022953c19b738f04c06afa01e3efeabd07c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll only let Mr Bridges go if he does a haka on the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022397da7f713b944deace18c344544fbf7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. If I recall, ACT have 13 questions available, used five yesterday, four on question No. 4 today, three so far; one more remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022486b9633b0544f59a17d5f7cdd7d29aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You used six yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226045411844094db79129bf99de230bbe\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It didn\u2019t feel like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f38d1aecb24ebdaf14f67ace285994\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hard to say what I think\u2014whether I thought the member had more, or less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227afecf04255c40b7bbe76468b5a60416\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What value does the Minister feel that New Zealand history in schools will bring to harmonious relations in Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbce03d9568c412396bc71d66e7d13c0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think understanding the wide variety of cultures and views, the diversity of New Zealand, the different journeys that have brought people here to this land, I think, will be hugely valuable. But, again, I want to reiterate what I said in my last question: I think an understanding of the fact that not everybody starts life with the same opportunities as everybody else is something that young people should understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248fb8abe247b4b25861ce2e449c10a17\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002206e538317c064c369abebea75ffa6bea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e538317c064c369abebea75ffa6bea\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she believe the welfare system should aim to alleviate hardship or eliminate hardship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002218ee65b714d6485ca4c1e4e3cb3e2c13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ee65b714d6485ca4c1e4e3cb3e2c13\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E All of us in this House would like to see the elimination of poverty and hardship in Aotearoa, but every Government understands that there are no overnight solutions to achieving that. As a Government, we\u2019ve been clear about our commitment to addressing income adequacy for those in work and those on the welfare system. But more than that, we have made significant progress in this area. We are the first Government to measure child poverty and hold ourselves accountable to addressing it. In our first 100 days last term, we invested $5.5 billion into our Families Package to boost the income of low- and middle-income families. We have since lifted main benefits and indexed them to wages, raised abatement thresholds, and invested significantly into supporting people into work. We know we have much more to do, but we are very much committed to doing the work. We have a programme of work which we are conducting on the back of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s report. New steps will come out of this work, as outlined in the Cabinet paper, and any announcements will be made in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213bcfa80e7694996b841f387c0fedff5\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware a single person over 25 years old will only receive an extra $8 per week as a result of their recent increases to benefit levels, which is not even enough to meet the average cost of a block of cheese?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e0aec8acea7490c84523cbba3205079\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: A single person over the age of 25 would have benefited from not only the $25 increase to benefits but also the indexation of benefits to wages. I do need to speak to the indexation of benefits to wages. That\u2019s an enduring change that will mean that benefits go up year on year, more than what they would have previously. I will also say that we\u2019ve been very clear there\u2019s more to do in this space and we\u2019re very much committed to doing more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5c9d2e8da5e4f8da71dd078d84dae8b\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is $315 a week enough for someone on a job seeker benefit to live with dignity, given the increased cost of living and sky-rocketing rents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b69f722a8e74c0db7f7236427d360c4\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to pretend that living off $315 a week is easy. We do need to reflect on this country\u2019s history, and it goes back to the cuts that were made under National in the 1990s. We\u2019ve never been able to catch those figures up. We\u2019ve made significant progress, to date, with regards to making our welfare system fairer, but there certainly is more to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd17462fde30433f9d1c06f73afdaa5b\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Helen Robinson, the head of the Auckland City Mission, who said this week that benefits needed to go up by $200 each week to allow people to live with dignity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a2cc76b3fb4ff5bf420772b21703cb\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: There are many great people working across social services, working in our city missions, and many of them have come forward saying what they think needs to happen with regards to benefit increases. We also have the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s report, which was really clear on what they thought needed to happen with regards to benefit increases. We said in our manifesto that we would address income adequacy in our welfare system this term, and we\u2019re very much committed to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c48f9012f648e3b4ab8ff6df57884f\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that because of rising living costs, the benefit increases recommended by the Welfare Expert Advisory Group two years ago would not be enough for people to live with dignity today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c601ea074d44d692db305ed68e471a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I have already said, we have committed to addressing income adequacy in the welfare system, work is already under way, we have made some significant changes, and we plan to make some more significant changes this term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022747bcb7d12614e729398af04e5bb07a8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d87727b1f57e452ea636c1f7aa066e71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d87727b1f57e452ea636c1f7aa066e71\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to promote bullying-free environments in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00221777effec02f4d6aada41c98ed5aa6e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221777effec02f4d6aada41c98ed5aa6e3\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This week is Bullying-Free NZ Week in Aotearoa New Zealand. The Government supports this nationwide initiative that encourages student-led action on bullying. Evidence shows that successful bullying prevention and response requires a whole-school approach and a cultural shift. The initiative has been running for five years and, in conjunction with the Bullying-Free NZ online resource hub, aims to raise awareness of what school communities can do to address bullying and provide safe, inclusive learning environments for all learners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c21d8bd1c684a5abb464a062161d5f8\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other support is available to schools and students to encourage positive behaviour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6b82422e5d452eb68c2d0a830738a5\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the free resources and activities that have been tested by students, we also offer a free student survey called Wellbeing@School, that helps schools and boards of trustees understand students\u2019 experiences so their voices can be heard and addressed. Other Government programmes include the Positive Behaviour for Learning suite, which, as a former educational practitioner, I can vouch for its effectiveness. Learning support specialists and resource teachers for learning and behaviour, or RTLBs, also provide on-the-ground support to schools to address behaviour and bullying challenges. This Government has also passed the Education and Training Act 2020, which ensures schools are developing safe and inclusive learning environments free from racism, discrimination, and bullying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b020cb02fb3e4c02a7ba5497f80d4812\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other plans does the Government have to address bullying in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a6e9472eeaf4e40a61cb337ded9cb88\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We know bullying is a significant and ongoing issue for young people and can be a barrier to learning. Last week, the first annual report for the Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy was released, and showed that 5.9 percent of secondary school students reported very regular bullying. We know that if students don\u2019t feel they are in a safe, positive, inclusive learning environment, they will struggle to learn. That is why bullying prevention and response is part of this strategy, and includes working towards the outcome of children living free of bullying. We\u2019ve made good progress under this Government, but there is more work to do. I look forward to providing further updates to the House on this work as we continue to deliver for New Zealand schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed34496848b8422dab5f8c7640264340\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022727189a3e68940ea920d3caed1af7598\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 Vaccination\u2014Controller and Auditor-General Report on Nationwide Roll-out\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9393b8603c34030b99cf5c91d38317c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9393b8603c34030b99cf5c91d38317c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve received a letter from Chris Bishop seeking to debate, under Standing Order 399, the report of the Controller and Auditor-General on the preparations for the nationwide roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccine. This is a particular matter of recent occurrence. There is no ministerial responsibility for the report of an Officer of Parliament because they are the responsibility of the Speaker\u2014Speakers\u0027 rulings 201/6, 202/1, and 202/2. However, the Government including the ministry\u2019s response to such a report could be the subject of an urgent debate application. Unfortunately, that request was not made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHowever, it may be some consolation for the members to know that when considering an application for an urgent debate\u2014or whether it\u2019s relevant\u2014it is relevant whether there are other parliamentary means of discussing the subject. In this instance, the member lodged an oral question, his leader asked supplementaries on it, and there is the opportunity in the general debate to raise it. The Budget debate commences tomorrow and is very wide ranging; it will offer the member an opportunity to debate the report and the Government\u2019s response to it. For those reasons, the application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222368c32656744db9ba3bd0ec890029b1\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb44b33e14c54e8c9ba23ceeda3e2a69\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002207215a74b2374f23bc205fffd7ae59e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207215a74b2374f23bc205fffd7ae59e8\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe go into Budget 2021 with an extraordinary tailwind as a country: record low interest rates worldwide, terms of trade with the milk price higher than it\u2019s been in a long, long time, and we are an island nation on a pandemic planet. These are enormous advantages for any country to go into a Budget with, and yet we face enormous difficulties. We see rising asset prices that have dramatically increased inequality under a Labour Government. We see a country where interest rates won\u2019t be low for ever, and that\u2019s a real problem when the Government has rising public debt because its response to COVID-19 has been based on public debt and borrowing to stimulate the economy. And then there\u2019s the COVID situation, which risks becoming dramatically more complex, for four reasons: there is going to be vaccination that will change the parameters of the virus\u2014its infectiousness and virulence; there\u2019ll be variants of that virus that may well make it a vaccine buster; there are new technologies, like finger-prick testing for immunity; and then there is public fatigue\u2014public balance sheets and just people being a bit over it. All of that means the world is going to move on from COVID, and is New Zealand ready?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo far it\u2019s been simple to stay back behind, in our walled garden, isolated from the world, protected by the Pacific and the Tasman, but the COVID situation will become more complex as the world opens up. And what has this Government done to prepare for that eventuality and facing New Zealand\u2019s long-term challenges in general? Well, we are starting to see that our COVID response hasn\u2019t been special; our country\u2019s positioning in the world has been special. I even asked the Minister for COVID-19 Response \u201CDid any country have more natural advantages going into COVID?\u201D He couldn\u2019t name one, but that advantage is slowly evaporating as we find we\u2019re second to last in the OECD for vaccination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen we start to ask: what of the longer-term problems? What about productivity? What is this Government doing to make it easier for people to invest in their firms and their farms, to provide for their friends and their families? Well, this Government bans just about everything, taxes more and more each year, and then increasingly and onerously regulates the property that it hasn\u2019t taxed off productive New Zealanders. That\u2019s why we have tradies flocking to Australia because the Government makes it so hard to be productive with all of its taxes and regulations. They\u2019ve no initiative to make business easier. The Minister of Finance gave a pre-Budget speech; 3,000 words, mentioned business twice. That\u2019s why we have a productivity problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd what about making it easier to build homes? A problem that both National and Labour Governments have failed to solve: too many people chasing too few homes. But what did this Government do? Well, surprise, surprise! A tax. That\u2019s right. Their housing policy was actually a tax policy disguised as a housing policy. That\u2019s before we talk about getting kids to be at school, learning, equipped with the skills for the 21st century. They prop up the system that\u2019s failed generations, especially of poorer kids, especially of M\u0101ori kids. They won\u2019t do innovative things like charter schools to make sure they learn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo we go into Budget week on the crest of a slump, with huge tailwinds, massive advantages of terms of trade, low interest rates, massive public borrowing\u2014it\u2019s all there\u2014isolation in a pandemic, all of those advantages eroding and a Government that\u2019s done nothing for business, for productivity, for skills, for making it easier to build homes, leaving New Zealand with a whole lot more debt and all of the same problems that this Government found. That is what we face on Budget day. There\u2019s got to be a better way than this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022a36b4d9b5a4d4e93aa6f4ed118831d39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a36b4d9b5a4d4e93aa6f4ed118831d39\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by acknowledging our Government team, and in particular my fellow Labour M\u0101ori MPs, who continue to represent the aspirations of M\u0101ori in this House. Minister Davis spoke in this debate last week and referenced the Leader of the Opposition opening up the National playbook and scrolling down through Don Brash\u2019s footnotes\u2014jeez, talk about a blast from the past. It\u2019s clear that when all else fails that side of the House reverts to the politics of division, trying to sanitise history, and ignoring obligations set out under the Treaty of Waitangi. This is an interesting tactic, and if we look at the poll in weekend, it shows that that old playbook still isn\u2019t working. New Zealanders do not want to go backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Opposition has stepped backwards from the days of the Key/English Government. The weekend poll showed that John Key is still rating higher than the current Opposition leader as preferred Prime Minister, and it\u2019s no surprise. Key and English didn\u2019t shy away from their Treaty obligations. They didn\u2019t try and sweep things under the rug, yet Judith Collins wants to turn back on the Treaty and she wants to turn back on how far we\u2019ve come as a nation. She wants to ignore how much more there is to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ENational previously embraced their Treaty obligations and the concept of partnership. Just look at some of the legislation that they passed in their time: Te Urewera Act 2014, which saw co-governance and, in fact, eventually moving to Te Urewera being the main governors in their rohe. Then there is the Waikato River Authority, an independent statutory board, enabling co-governance and co-management frameworks to work between the Crown and river iwi. The Act that established the T\u016Bpuna Maunga o T\u0101maki Makaurau Authority is an Act that transferred ownership of 14 t\u016Bpuna maunga in T\u0101maki-Makaurau to 13 iwi to be able to be co-governed. Whirinaki Te Pua-a-T\u0101ne Conservation Park provides for co-governance. Te Hauturu-o-Toi/Little Barrier Island is where Ng\u0101ti Manuhiri with the Auckland Conservation Board have a co-management plan. You know what? Even Nick Smith saw the merit of partnership when he said about He Whare \u0100huru, the M\u0101ori housing strategy at the time, that \u201CThe Government acknowledges the ambition of M\u0101ori and iwi to lead improvements in housing for their people, their desire to build on papak\u0101inga land and the value they place on better housing and homeownership. It recognises that improving housing is a part of a long-term vision for M\u0101ori to control their own affairs and provide a better future for wh\u0101nau now and for future generations.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThese Acts were good for National when they were in Government but they don\u2019t want to have anything to do with it now that they\u2019re in Opposition. Oh, my, how the worm turns. This Government understands that working in partnership with M\u0101ori helps to lift outcomes for M\u0101ori and indeed society at large. When M\u0101ori do well, everyone does well, and we do this on a daily basis. What we see are the benefits of a partnership in practice\u2014M\u0101ori providers mobilising to respond to COVID-19, iwi responding to natural disasters to support our wider community, M\u0101ori advocating for the long-term intergenerational wellbeing of the environment, and, indeed, do I say, fresh water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere is so much that we have done and it\u2019s important to highlight that in the remaining time we have got, because tomorrow\u2019s Budget is on its way. I want to commend the hard work of our Minister of Finance. So let\u2019s go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWhat have we done to date? We\u2019ve invested in k\u014Dhanga reo to improve pay for kaiako and upgrade buildings. We\u2019re improving access to healthy, affordable homes, through investing in papak\u0101inga and housing repair programmes. We\u2019re investing in employment and skills training for M\u0101ori through He Poutama Rangatahi, Mana in Mahi, and M\u0101ori cadetships. We\u2019re setting a goal for 1 million New Zealanders speaking te reo M\u0101ori by 2040. We\u2019re introducing Matariki as a public holiday, and making ratings changes to allow councils the ability to wipe rates arrears of whenua M\u0101ori. We\u2019re supporting councils to introduce M\u0101ori wards. We\u2019re introducing a social procurement target to lift M\u0101ori enterprise and support the M\u0101ori economy. We\u2019re supporting whenua M\u0101ori development, supporting marae restoration, establishing Te Arawhiti, and continuing to work through the Treaty settlement process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve unveiled a statue of Dame Whina Cooper to recognise her contribution. We\u2019re making sure that New Zealand history is taught in all schools and kura by 2022. We\u2019re providing record investment into Wh\u0101nau Ora, because we know it works. There is so much more to do. On this side of the House, we\u2019re certainly looking forward to the Budget, for all New Zealanders, because we\u2019re moving forward, not backwards. We know that partnership works and when we do things with others, with M\u0101ori, with local government, with community, so much can be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a38789493e9c4e66a79c3f20c8b39dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a38789493e9c4e66a79c3f20c8b39dcd\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to speak about the National leader and her campaign to incite white hysteria, the politicking of fear, and make it clear that Te Paati M\u0101ori recognises her agenda for what it is\u2014a desperate, radical agenda to gear up hysteria against bombing polls\u2014and affirms to this House we will continue to call it what it is: conscious, deliberate, blatant racism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe, like many tangata whenua and tangata Tiriti, know this isn\u2019t about \u201Cpreserving democracy\u201D or \u201Casking the hard questions people don\u2019t want to hear\u201D. Do not insult our intelligence. This is about a fading leader using an old trowel used by many monsters on these walls, before relying on the politics of fear, which causes people to suspend their reason and vent in a vile, destructive way. This is about a racist using her platform of privilege to spread fear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c8cde914bb46388d40e40c1cba6b19\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. I know that the Speaker\u2019s ruling I made a week ago, roughly, was one which is provisional and I\u2019ve asked for advice on it, but I have made it clear that I\u2019m not prepared to overturn that part of Speaker Kidd\u2019s ruling which prohibits members being described as racist in the House. The member will cease use of that word when applied to a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229723880c4965464ab62fed3b94002847\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is about a person who is anti-M\u0101ori and using her platform of privilege to spread fear in a way that no vaccine could ever hope to wipe out\u2014that\u2019s what anti-M\u0101ori people do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not kid ourselves that this is about discussing policy process, because, if that indeed was her agenda, she knows full well investing in future liabilities, taking targeted approaches, is the right thing to do. No, she has deliberately created hysteria because she wants people to act in a way they never would if we\u2019d had a rational conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIf, indeed, we took ownership of the very inequities that tangata whenua are confronting and showed courageous leadership, here we have a chance to adopt a new norm, to reclaim a position that respects tangata whenua and tangata Tiriti\u2014a calm, reasonable way forward that has data, years of research, recommending the way that makes not only political sense, but humane sense. Instead, she constantly and consistently uses the most anti-M\u0101ori, dehumanising language\u2014segregation, separatist, apartheid\u2014denouncing Te Tiriti and, indeed, its intent to build a strong, united Aotearoa for all. She attacks large iwi who have worked hard with multiple Governments and shown the nation how strong Tiriti partnerships become relationships for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ENo, what we have witnessed and seen allowed to thrive in this House is a National leader who has incited anti-M\u0101ori and invited vile attacks into every M\u0101ori home. We are prepared to get kicked out for calling her out every time, as it doesn\u2019t affect those who have the resilience to armour up, who can use platforms like ours to fight back and call her out. It affects those who are vulnerable, who we often don\u2019t see or hear in the House: our tamariki in communities; our rangatahi trying to find themselves in a country debating their culture norm, their identity; our kaum\u0101tua who get up off their seat to manaaki our tangata Tiriti elderly. This affects those that are in employment as minorities, those fighting every day against race profiling, parents teaching their children to be proud to be M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori are dying seven years earlier than P\u0101keh\u0101 in a system run by people like her, a system they\u2019re too scared to use\u2014can\u2019t understand diagnosis, don\u2019t have jobs which allow them flexibility to get treated, won\u2019t reach out for mental health support, don\u2019t have marae and hap\u016B around them. M\u0101ori, who are less likely to get screened or referred for secondary care specialists, less likely to get the cultural services they need, and who endure poverty and are too ashamed to ask for help. She has no idea what it is like growing up with a racist profile, living in an area deliberately targeted with tobacco shops, alcohol outlets, gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ERace-baiting is racist, and \u201CJudith Coloniser\u201D, this is exactly what she is\u2014anti-M\u0101ori. What Judith has done is long-lasting, and I intend to use my privilege to fight and have it documented that at no stage will we accept it. White supremacists are emboldened by Judith. It\u2019s irresponsible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb68a5852b0045a5ac0f06980f9a5810\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m going to remind the member that when she\u2019s referring to that member, she can refer to her as Judith Collins or the Leader of the Opposition, but not by first names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4dcb05717334d49a1452ba9bff77329\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies. White supremacists are emboldened by Judith Collins\u2019 irresponsible leadership, and we are not prepared to have that behaviour go in here unchecked. We didn\u2019t ask what it would look like in a united Aotearoa. I watched as we sat there with tangata Tiriti, like my mother\u201475 years old\u2014ashamed to hear that tangata Tiriti aren\u2019t respected and valued, one that doesn\u2019t want to see P\u0101keh\u0101 demolish relationships. We have tangata Tiriti with tangata whenua stand on the front line against M\u0101ori wards. We all want to work hard to stop and cancel out the culture that has become about blame and shame, instead of walking forward. We encourage those that are continuing to bring policy and legislation that will grow and enhance this country for a stronger Aotearoa. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3986ab147de475187dab015bfcaa6f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3986ab147de475187dab015bfcaa6f3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I heard the ACT leader, David Seymour, say that no progress had been made in housing, and I\u2019m going to spend my five minutes, in ahead of tomorrow\u2019s Budget, to disabuse him of his ignorance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI do a weekly TV show on TV3 with Duncan Garner and Simon Bridges. Simon Bridges has started asking me questions as to whether the Labour Government\u2019s doing enough to solve the housing crisis. It\u2019s interesting, because anyone with a memory of longer than three years can remember that for the prior nine years, the National Party, leading Government with the support of the ACT Party\u2014David Seymour\u2014refused to acknowledge that we even had a housing crisis in New Zealand. Yet in the three decades from the 1990s till now, our house prices saw the highest growth after inflation\u2014real growth\u2014in the OECD: they went up 266 percent in real terms, to the point where a house in Auckland cost 10 times the median household income, which was plainly unaffordable for many.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo having denied the housing crisis, they left us with a country where they had sold off State houses\u2014they sold more than they built new ones. They leased in a few, but of course they leased houses that already existed rather than building them, decreasing further the private sector stock, as well as the public stock. They allowed the workforce to wither, post-GFC, and after the GFC we had fewer people in apprenticeships, so that when things came right after the GFC, we didn\u2019t have the people who could build houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, what have we done? We\u2019ve done a huge range of things, and it\u2019s working. We banned foreign buyers. We updated the national policy of existing homes. We updated the National Policy Statement on Urban Development, to require councils to make room for growth, up and out. We\u2019re fast-tracking consents. We\u2019ve got infrastructure funding that includes grants, but we\u2019ve also got new financing facilities that enable subdivisions to be able to be financed without adding to council debt burdens. We\u2019ve changed tax rules to interest deductibility, to change who can pay the marginal price for the next house purchase of an existing house, and we\u2019ve had to do that because, as David Seymour says, interest rates are really low\u2014but that\u2019s not the fault of Government; that\u2019s what\u2019s happened to interest rates around the world post-COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EInstead of the number of people in training going down, we\u2019ve got 100,000 extra people in training since COVID hit. Of those, around 20,000 are apprentices in the building trades. A lot of the other people will have micro-credentials, and the like. What\u2019s happening? Well, we\u2019re also funding public houses. We\u2019re funding 18,000 public and transitional houses by 2024. Now, that\u2019s a big enough number. You compute that down: it\u2019s more than 5,000 a year, it\u2019s more than 100 a week, it\u2019s more than 15 a day, when you exclude Sundays. Fifteen houses extra a day makes a difference, if you do it for a while\u2014which we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat happened to the total number of houses being built? The number of consents to build houses in New Zealand last year, the stats out a couple of weeks ago\u2014it\u2019s 41,000; more than 40,000. In 2017, it was 30,000. That\u2019s a massive increase in the number of houses being built, and we\u2019re now building more houses than population growth needs, and this year is going to be just as good if not better than last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s it like in Auckland, where the problems have been most pressing? House builds have gone up, from 10,800-odd in 2017, by 60 percent to over 16,000. Where\u2019s the growth happening? Well, this is what I find really interesting. Apartments have gone down\u2014that\u2019s because we\u2019ve banned foreign buyers, because they were being predominantly purchased by foreign buyers. That building effort is now going into semi-detached townhouses, flats, units, and other dwellings. The number of single houses is roughly flat, but the number of town houses, flats, units, and other dwellings has gone up from 2,200 to 7,200 a year\u2014a 300 percent increase in the typologies of smaller houses that people can afford to buy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe are making a difference here. I think that we are turning a corner. We hear this statement that rents are going up astronomically. They\u2019re not. They\u2019re starting to even out as well, and I reckon within a year\u2019s time, with the additional support that we\u2019ll see coming through this Budget, people can be confident that we\u2019ve got this under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022446ac311a5c548d2b256359937a4a271\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022446ac311a5c548d2b256359937a4a271\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last week in this House, I mentioned the issue, the crisis, of cyber-security and ransomware threats to New Zealand and what a big impact that it was actually having on New Zealand, and it seems like the Government really haven\u2019t paid much attention to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ENow, more than 435,000 New Zealanders\u2014that is nearly 10 percent of New Zealand\u2019s population\u2014are without adequate access to healthcare in the Waikato region. Their sensitive health data, their personal details about their healthcare needs, are still being held to ransom as we speak. It is the patient records, their health information, the digital medical tools, and even the phone lines have been down, and we\u2019re not hearing when it\u2019s going to be fixed. It may still continue to happen well past this weekend, and that is a shame. That is an absolute shame and it\u2019s an absolute disgrace, because it could have been avoided by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs the Minister responsible for cyber-security policy under this Government, Minister David Clark has failed the people of New Zealand. In his answer to my written parliamentary question, he said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CAs Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications, neither I nor my officials have given any advice to district health boards regarding cybersecurity.\u201D\u2014and I quote again\u2014\u201CAs Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications, neither I nor my officials have given any advice to district health boards regarding ICT operations.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287450972776b47deb29cc82770d0bdfc\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: None at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b8c4934676f40d9a4cdf8d34f78b218\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing. The Minister actually has officials across Government, including multiple Government agencies including the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA), and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. This means that CERT New Zealand, the Computer Emergency Response Team, did not provide any advice to the DHB, according to the Minister. That is the answer that he has given me. That means that the DIA scam prevention and digital safety team did not provide any advice, according to the Minister. This means that the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet\u2019s National Cyber Policy Office did not provide any advice, according to the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEither the answer the Minister had in fact provided to me is wrong, and he is accountable and will have to come back to this House to explain himself, or the lack of action is a damning indictment on this Government\u2019s cyber-security priorities. That means the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34f379b9eff42feae3b32d80bbbdaf7\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s he done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222955f6611abb43959dd2a198e5b3845e\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Louise Upston, to your question \u201CWhat has he done?\u201D: nothing, it seems. He has not done anything to prevent these kinds of cyber-attacks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ELast week, as I alluded to, the Health Research Council of New Zealand was brought to their knees because of the hacking, and this Parliament\u2019s ability to scrutinise them during the annual review process did not happen. All the information that they were supposed to provide for their annual report was lost because of a hack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee is currently undertaking a briefing into cyber-security. As soon as this news hit about the Waikato hack, I have written a letter to the committee, and I would hope that the members in that select committee will looking into it seriously, because it is a question of openness, it is a question of transparency, and it is a question of public accountability. I call on the Government\u2019s Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications, the Hon David Clark, to take responsibility and apologise to the people of New Zealand\u2014oh, that\u2019s right, he did not. He hasn\u2019t, and it reminds me that he is in fact, or was, the Minister of Health who during the COVID lockdown decided to break the rules and went cycling. He went to the beach when everybody else was doing the lockdown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad02c9b577140fe8972099c345ff0f0\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6d56a4a90443ea83d2c88323c709a0\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yeah, it just tells me that this Minister has no sense of responsibility, and I don\u2019t expect any apology from him. I think that\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d8b701b0554922ad2097b0238b609e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad0875ba46f64ea2a5584cc7c338a0db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad0875ba46f64ea2a5584cc7c338a0db\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call in this general debate. I just wanted to note that I\u2019m pretty sure that the Minister responsible for the GCSB is Minister Little, not Minister Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f356a3865db34d649a5d7af73b32b030\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I said \u201Cdigital economy and communications\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235e5be45331f4c85896f591c6e574023\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, fair enough\u2014fair enough. Well, thank you for that. Tomorrow is Budget day\u2014Budget 2021. Now, it would be remiss of me, as a former early childhood teacher and an early childhood centre owner, not to mention the pre-Budget announcement that Minister Hipkins made very recently, with a $170 million package for the early childhood education (ECE) sector, increase in their funding, in order for centres to be able to pay their ECE teachers who are not kindergarten teachers on a collective agreement, in order to pay them to be able to reach pay parity. We know that many of our early childhood teachers are paid around $16,000 less. So this is going to mean so much to so many in our early childhood sector, and it is something I am so proud to be able to stand here and talk about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EMr Seymour mentioned that the COVID response here in New Zealand has been nothing special. Well, I wonder if he\u2019s been watching television and seeing what\u2019s happening overseas, to see just how successful, to date, our response has been. We have so many more freedoms than people overseas have. When I was recently sitting in ICU with my mum on life support, and I was holding her hand, I was thinking this has been pretty damned special\u2014pretty damned special that we, as a country, can do this when so many people overseas are not able to be with the ones that they love, when they desperately, desperately want to. So I think that our response has been very, very special.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EBut on to the Budget. This Budget is all about\u2014well, we know that we are dealing with the pandemic still. As I said, you only have to see overseas that it is rife, but we do need to focus on securing our economy and continuing to invest in the wellbeing of New Zealanders. We are doing many, many things in order for that to happen. And one of the things that I did want to make mention of was what Minister Parker mentioned, around the success in our trades apprenticeships. Well, I just wanted to mention the fact that Venture Timaru, in my electorate, was successful in securing $4 million worth of funding for the regional apprenticeship scheme. Now, they anticipated that over a hundred apprenticeships would be available over a 12-month period. Well, that has been so successful that all those spaces for apprenticeships\u2014100\u2014have been filled within five months. That is a real success story, in my mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ENow, we know that there are many regions who have suffered more so than others throughout COVID, and that could be dependent on where they are and what their local economies are made up of. My electorate, I have to say, has been one of the very lucky electorates, whereby we are, largely, a primary producing electorate, and during the height of our lockdown, etc., over 70 percent of our workforce were able to continue working. So we have fared better than many of the other areas around the country. So I think it\u2019s really important to acknowledge our rural sector and the work that they were able to continue to do to ensure our economy kept going in the way that it did. But that\u2019s also not to take away from the fact that there were many, many other people working in essential roles throughout our lockdown. It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESo I am looking forward to tomorrow: Budget 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022f788e169001e445db392ca5b0d8e873f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f788e169001e445db392ca5b0d8e873f\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I want to talk today about the Government\u2019s three waters reforms, because while we as the National Party are very much aligned with the Government around water management in this country\u2014we started off the three waters review back in 2017\u2014we fundamentally agree that there is a case for change and that we need to do something more than the status quo. We believe fundamentally that our infrastructure investment is suffering and that we\u2019ve got ageing infrastructure. We know we\u2019ve got to upgrade it. We\u2019ve got to seriously do something about it. We\u2019ve got challenges with safety standards. We\u2019ve seen that with Havelock North, we\u2019ve seen it with lead in Otago, we\u2019ve seen boil notices across small towns all across this country, and we understand that there\u2019s a need for us to do something about that. We know that there is risk to our environment. We\u2019ve got burst pipes in Wellington, we\u2019ve got leakage in Auckland, we\u2019ve got overflowing sewage on the beaches in Auckland. We\u2019ve got a lot of things to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo we want to make it relatively clear that we are here to be aligned with the Government on the problem that exists around water management. But I have to say that\u2019s where it now stops, because that alignment is lovely at the beginning, and it\u2019s wonderful that we can agree on the problem that\u2019s here in this country, but we fundamentally believe that this is a Government that doesn\u2019t execute well. It talks a good game but it doesn\u2019t actually get the job done. It loves to talk about what it\u2019s going to do but it never gets it done. It talks about $1.9 billion in mental health, and yet we have a 41 percent blowout in wait times to get access to those services. It talks about spending the most that\u2019s ever been spent in the history of this country per pupil, per student, secondary or primary, and yet we can\u2019t get the kids to school and we\u2019ve got the worst maths, reading, and science scores that we\u2019ve had for some time. It has a unique ability, this Government, to spend more but to actually get less for it. So we\u2019re looking forward to Budget day tomorrow, because I think we\u2019re going to see a lot more of the same as we go forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThe challenge when you start to think about the three waters reform is that it\u2019s all going to come down to implementation and execution, because it\u2019s complex and it\u2019s hard and it\u2019s broad and there\u2019s a lot for us to do. Essentially, what\u2019s happening: you\u2019re taking 67 councils that provide those three waters services today and looking to amalgamate and push them into four big multi-regional entities or water entities. There\u2019s quite a few issues in the execution. We could start on lots of things, but I want to talk about one thing in particular. I could talk about financing. I could talk about whether it\u2019s voluntary or mandatory. But what I really want to talk about is the fact around governance structures, and that\u2019s the issue I\u2019m going to spend the most time on today, because we are now talking about proposals across the country that are creating really complex governance structures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one person that we really need to listen to very, very closely, and that is Mayor of Auckland, Phil Goff. You\u2019ve got to understand, this is a Labour Mayor of Auckland. He is the great man from this House that was here for 22 years. He was the leader of the Labour Party for three years. He was a very experienced Minister. He\u2019s very good friends with many of the people in this House. I often wonder whether Minister Wood is his son\u2014that\u2019s the sort of thing I wonder about. But he is very, very close to this party, and he\u2019s a great man of Government. He\u2019s one of the great leaders of the Labour Party, and he\u2019s incredibly close and he\u2019s deeply embedded with this Government, so we should listen to him incredibly closely, because I think Phil Goff gets it. I really think he understands this one. I think he gets it really well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EHe wrote to Minister Mahuta and he wrote to his good friends the Prime Minister and Minister Robertson and Minister Wood just six days ago, and this is what he said. It starts up nicely enough\u2014I mean, he really opens the letter really nicely. He says, \u201CT\u0113n\u0101 koe Nanaia. Thank you for your letter received 5 May about the proposed three waters service delivery reform.\u201D\u2014nice enough. Good start. You sit there and go, \u201CThank you, Phil. We\u2019re off and running.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThen he puts the car into first gear and he starts sort of cutting to the chase of what his actual issues are and what he wants to talk about. So here we go: \u201CI am seeking your explanation of how DIA\u2019s proposed amalgamation will address any shortcomings in Watercare\u2019s management or governance. I do not understand why Watercare needs to be amalgamated and removed from Council\u2019s governance to achieve management efficiencies\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EHe goes on to say, \u201CI am not convinced that the proposed governance arrangements will achieve the efficiencies modelled, nor am I convinced that the change to remove the proposed water supply authority from democratic governance and oversight will be positive.\u201D\u2014I mean, ouch! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EI mean, that\u2019s quite something, isn\u2019t it? You\u2019ve opened nicely, you\u2019re then sort of getting into the first point\u2014pretty clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EHe starts to crank it up. He starts to really get into top gear when he starts to talk quite damningly about the governance complexity being created. He says, \u201CThe Governor\u2019s Representative Group will comprise representatives ranging from four to six local authorities and up to 50 iwi. Gaining consensus among all [those] parties is likely to be a time consuming and expensive undertaking.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270054f67d7914adfa943978ee262d12f\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: And he would know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c037dac41a404fdf9a0fcf625392e5aa\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Now, he would know\u2014right?\u2014because he was a very effective Minister. He was a great leader of the Labour Party, he\u2019s been an outstanding Mayor of Auckland, and I think we need to listen to Mayor Phil Goff. Minister Wood, he\u2019s a wise man; I know you take his tutelage all the time. It\u2019s fantastic. But I think he points out an issue that we\u2019ve got to do something about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo I just want to encourage all those members, as we go into Budget day tomorrow, listen to Mayor Phil\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002278032eb3cd554beea8adf028d4328a5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278032eb3cd554beea8adf028d4328a5b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecdb96bb3a28481ab4864a99fed834b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecdb96bb3a28481ab4864a99fed834b6\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for letting me have a five-minute shot at being able to talk about some of the awesome stuff that\u2019s happening over on this side of the House, and steer away from some of that negativity that the \u201CLeader of the Opposition\u201D is talking\u2014oh, sorry, not yet. He\u2019s not the Leader of the Opposition just yet, but if you believe everything that\u2019s going on in the media at the moment, well, it\u2019s not far away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to first of all acknowledge the strength of our M\u0101ori Ministers that are inside our Cabinet and out there on the front line every single day, fighting for Te Ao M\u0101ori every single day, up and down the country. So having somebody like the Hon Kelvin Davis in charge of reforms around Oranga Tamariki, reforms around the Department of Corrections and making sure that M\u0101ori that are trapped inside that system are looked after the best that they can. Historically, we haven\u2019t done well by looking after those particular cohorts, the young people in Oranga Tamariki and all of our people inside the corrections net\u2014I\u2019ll say \u201Cnet\u201D, and I\u2019ll say that purposefully as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge Minister Nania Mahuta for the work that she\u2019s doing\u2014our first M\u0101ori Minister of Foreign Affairs, and isn\u2019t that a great thing? But on top of that, she\u2019s also leading reforms that Christopher Luxon, the previous speaker, alluded to: the three waters reforms that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c893540cb8fe48858a1ee459ced2477b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just thinking Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed9fb7afd9434784a9738ab526bb6253\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yeah. The first female M\u0101ori Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014there you go. But also, just talking about the leadership that she\u2019s showing in the three waters reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe Hon Peeni Henare: what he\u2019s doing in Wh\u0101nau Ora, making sure that our grassroots organisations that are out there at the coalface are being looked after as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EOur Minister for M\u0101ori Development, the effervescent Willie Jackson\u2014he is a character, but he gets the job done. This time around, he\u2019s doing some great stuff, and I\u2019m looking forward to those announcements tomorrow as they come out in the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to finish by talking about the Hon Kiri Allan, who is one of our team, and we\u2019re sending her lots of love at this time. We know that she\u2019d love to be here, but she\u2019s on a journey of her own, and she\u2019s got all of our support back here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe Hon Meka Whaitiri, Rino Tirikatene\u2014the work that they are doing is also to be held up and to be used as an example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ELast year, we delivered the Labour M\u0101ori manifesto, talking about what we were going to do, and in the six months since the election, we\u2019ve done a lot. I know I\u2019ve only got a short time left, but I\u2019m going to try and peel through some of this stuff. The number one thing that I go home and talk to the wh\u0101nau about is the establishment of a M\u0101ori Health Authority, an independent voice to grow kaupapa M\u0101ori services and improve the health of this and future generations by providing effective leadership and partnership right throughout our health system. It\u2019s long overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge Minister Nania Mahuta\u2019s bill to remove the 5 percent poll provision, which was a barrier to councils being able to create M\u0101ori wards. I hear\u2014hot off the press\u2014that Hamilton have decided to enter into M\u0101ori wards, so congratulations to them. Tomorrow, the Whakat\u0101ne District Council get to have that decision, and I look forward to a positive result there. On Friday, back home, the Rotorua Lakes Council will also be having that discussion, and again, hopefully, we will be creating these opportunities to have M\u0101ori at the decision-making table. We\u2019ve done that because we\u2019ve been focused on changing the outcomes for M\u0101ori, which is a huge part of Budget 2021, making sure that we\u2019re continuing the good work that we\u2019re doing, supporting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis is going to be a balanced Budget, it\u2019s going to be very much a COVID Budget as well. We\u2019re not out of the woods on that front yet. We\u2019re still dealing with the effects of COVID-19, and the pandemic still looms large over all of us. But we agree that the first response is to look after the health of our people, and, for that reason, New Zealanders are behind us on this. They were behind us when we made the decision to open the borders to go to Australia, they\u2019re behind us as we\u2019ve opened the doors to go to the Cook Islands, and there\u2019ll be more opportunities coming in the near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EAs well as lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific income skills, opportunities, we\u2019re also going to be making sure that we\u2019re moving towards a low-emissions economy, we\u2019re reducing child poverty and improving child wellbeing, and also supporting physical and mental wellbeing for all New Zealanders and keeping COVID-19 out of our communities. Budget 2021 will still be a COVID Budget but also a recovery and a wellbeing Budget. It\u2019s for that reason that there is going to be much to celebrate tomorrow, and there\u2019s only one more sleep to go. As we keep telling the Opposition, who are desperate to hear what\u2019s in the Budget, they just need to wait one more sleep, because tomorrow all will be revealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhile we have our own tikanga and our own processes around what Budget looks like here in Wellington, all around the country the Budget affects everybody. So tomorrow is a day for all of New Zealand, and I look forward to being here and being part of it. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022afd8ee23f2ce411185f7af934b35fc4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afd8ee23f2ce411185f7af934b35fc4c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Budgets are all about priorities\u2014what we as a community, as a team of 5 million, think is important\u2014and I think we all showed last year, through this COVID pandemic, that it is really important, the health of our people, how we work together and look after one another, and the Green Party is very clear about our priorities, what we think needs to happen in the Budget tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn fact, I think the priorities of the Green Party align really well with the priorities of New Zealanders. I just want to quickly refer to the highlights from the Infrastructure Commission\u2019s Aotearoa 2050 digital engagement. That got over 23,000 responses, which is a pretty good sample of New Zealanders: 92 percent of New Zealanders ranked not always having safe drinking water as a very important issue, 92 percent ranked a lack of recycling as a very important issue, 85 percent of New Zealanders want to produce less waste\u2014they want the Government and local government to be enabling them to live more sustainably\u201480 percent of New Zealanders want investment in our water network, something that has been neglected over many decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOverall priorities: more so than jobs and people, the planet was the most important area that New Zealanders want us to prioritise when thinking about the future, because they know that without a healthy planet we have no future. Climate change is the single-most important issue facing all of us, and it\u2019s really easy to focus on the short term, to focus on COVID, but in fact we have very few years right now to make the changes that we need to to secure a safe, stable climate for ourselves and for our kids and their kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, in the recovery to COVID-19, climate change and climate action has to be central to that. It has to be central to everything we do: the future of food production, how we get around, how we build our buildings, how we produce our energy, how we use our energy, all of that is going to need to change. I know the Government have indicated a strong willingness to move in that direction. The question is are we going to move fast enough, because we can\u2019t just tinker around the edges. Everything needs to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOur economic system has to change. It has driven, it has been fuelling, the destruction of ecosystems, the loss of species at a faster rate than we have probably ever seen, and the overheating of our climate, and, of course, our economic system hasn\u2019t just done that to benefit all of us. It isn\u2019t benefiting all of us. In fact, for the last 30 years or so, our economic system has benefiting a smaller and smaller group of people. It has fuelled inequality, and, again, this is something I know the Government has on their radar. The question is: do they have the courage to move fast enough to make the changes that need to be made in order to truly deliver an economic system that is going to benefit all people, that\u2019s going to lift children out of poverty, that\u2019s going to protect and safeguard our natural environment, something that New Zealanders absolutely hold dear and prioritise? That\u2019s what we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, in the Green Budget, what would we see? We would see an overhauling of our welfare system. We know that\u2019s the only way to end child poverty in this country. We need to massively lift benefits. We need to make it fairer and easier to access. We need jobs that really employ people, OK, not just machines. There is this huge investment in infrastructure to create jobs. Yes, we do need infrastructure\u2014we absolutely do\u2014but we also need jobs that look after people. We need more nurses. We need more midwives. We need more early childhood education (ECE) teachers. We need better subsidies for early childhood education so that parents don\u2019t have to wait until their child is three if they want to go back to work. We need the subsidies to be higher, and we need the ECE teachers to be very well paid. I know there was a pre-election announcement. I don\u2019t think it goes far enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe can afford to do this. When it comes to the infrastructure that we need to see tomorrow, we need substantial investment in regional rapid rail. We are so far behind on passenger rail and sustainable freight options in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EPublic transport: in fact, in the Infrastructure Commission\u2019s survey, they said 75 percent of New Zealanders want public transport improved and less than 30 percent said we needed to spend more money on roads. So the money needs to be shifted to public transport, rail, and safe cycling in our cities. The vast majority of New Zealanders said that\u2019s what they want. The question is: will this Government deliver it? Well, the Green Party will be here to hold them to account and to call for the action that we need to protect our people and our planet now and into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u00227c6fa23d7d0044a58656e3986544954e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c6fa23d7d0044a58656e3986544954e\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege and honour to be able to enter this debate in anticipation of Budget 2021 tomorrow. I firstly want to acknowledge one of the pre-Budget announcements around cervical screening and the breast screening announcement made by Minister Verrall. Unfortunately, we all know someone who has been affected by cervical or breast cancer, and so to see this investment by this Government into women, into w\u0101hine, is a game-changer, really and truly. This is going to mean\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263bbddbfdfd4489e9ad93ad3fb7a32b7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Life-saver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd883b45adb43ca8499b29f657a0605\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely, it\u2019s lifesaving. This is going to mean many more M\u0101ori and many more Pacific but women in general are going to live longer\u2014we\u2019re going to survive. So that\u2019s just one of the very many game-changers that I can see and I\u2019m hopeful will continue in this recovery and wellbeing Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EAnother real game-changer for us, and while we are talking about women\u2019s health, is this Government\u2019s investment into another step in achieving a reduction in poverty, including child poverty, around the free period products in schools. Now we know that\u2019s another massive investment, another step towards this Government making sure that we reduce inequality and poverty by making sure that our young k\u014Dtiro, that our young rangatahi, can go to kura during that time because they can now access free period products, where before this they were having to stay home. So that also moves into, of course, this Government\u2019s absolute focus on education for all and making sure that especially our more vulnerable and M\u0101ori and Pacific kids\u2014making sure that they also get that opportunity to access education. So again, another game-changer from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EWhile we are talking about education, I\u2019d like to also note another game-changer again\u2014here we go, No. 3\u2014from this Government, and that is the free school lunches in kura. So again, another way to reduce inequality and poverty for our tamariki but it also goes further. Those free school lunches in kura also help our families with our budgets. I know many people who have said even with one child that\u2019s almost $50 they\u2019re saving in their family\u2019s budget per week\u2014again, another game-changer because they can use that on other utility bills that are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut it goes further than that. We were really lucky to have our Labour Party conference on the weekend in the mighty and beautiful \u014Ctaki electorate. I must say it was raining that morning. Everyone came and the sun came out, and it was an amazing weekend with some really great policy, great robust speakers, and k\u014Drero around how we can continue to make Aotearoa better with this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut one of the things we did have, and we were able to do, is we were able to have the same people who do the free lunches in schools do our lunches, because I thought it\u2019s important that this Government, when you\u2019re going to put out a policy like that, taste the wares of what they put before our tamariki. So we had exactly what they would have for lunch, and I can tell you it was nutritional, it kept us up for some of our amazing speakers in the afternoon so we didn\u2019t fall asleep, it fed our souls, it fed our brains, and that\u2019s what those free lunches do for our tamariki in kura. It feeds their souls and it feeds their brains. But, more than that, we also make sure that it\u2019s nutritional and that we\u2019re saving money for their families, but we also had\u2014lucky enough\u2014our economic tamariki who came along to support Hamish and his team who do the free lunches in schools. They also talked, or their kaiako talked about how it goes further than that. They are also making sure that they support local. They support the local businesses when they buy the local produce to be able to make sure that we feed our tamariki in schools. So, again, can I just say, is that No. 4 or 5\u2014I can\u2019t even keep up\u2014of a game-changer that this Government continues to make sure that it invests in all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ELastly, they also talked about the business aspect and being able to keep some of those businesses in business while we go through COVID. I know we haven\u2019t got much time and there\u2019s so many things to talk about, but can I just say the last part is around the amazing work of our Minister of Finance, the Hon Grant Robertson, who continues to manage our coffers so well that we are now looking at a 4.7 percent unemployment rate. Amazing\u2014and, again, our \u014Ctaki electorate has benefited from those jobs in our rohe as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ECan I just say, well done to Horizons Regional Council, who voted in M\u0101ori wards. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f97d2f7813b446039d8b4eb3b085ed78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f97d2f7813b446039d8b4eb3b085ed78\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I rise on behalf of National as the member of Parliament for North Shore. Today I want to highlight the workforce crisis in healthcare in this country. During the Estimates process in March, I asked the Minister of Health, \u201CWhat was the size of the workforce shortage across the health sector?\u201D, and you know what? He could not answer. But I\u2019ve got the answer. I\u2019ve got the answer right here, and I\u2019m going to talk through that today in my short call here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere is a saying: that there is no healthcare without the workforce. I can tell you here and now that I know that the numbers on this piece of paper are big. There are big shortages in this country. It is a big number, and it is a number that is growing. In DHBs alone, there are over 4,183 vacancies today. Over 1,600 of those vacancies are nurses alone. Nearly 1,000 of those vacancies are allied health professionals, and in one district health board alone, in the Waikato\u2014the DHB that is crippled by a cyber-security incident, that has no plan in order to deal with it\u2014they have over 450 nursing vacancies today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut what is hidden by these hard numbers are the human lives and the human stories. This workforce shortage is highlighted in the media continuously. It is impacting our most vulnerable, our elderly. We are seeing people waiting in corridors, and long waiting times, nurse burn-out, GP fatigue, including in my home electorate of the North Shore. My personal experience of these human stories comes from working within two of the largest district health boards in this country, and in a clinical capacity, front line, as an ambulance officer with St John. My observations of this problem tell me this problem is important but it is also real. The workforce shortage is also a cause of our vaccination programme that is progressing at the pace of a turtle. This is leaving our country vulnerable and is constraining our growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis Government is just making this problem worse, and let me give you a few examples. What effect will the public sector health pay freeze have on this problem? Well, I\u2019ll tell you what: it will make it worse. What will the effect of the immigration changes announced by this Government have on this problem? I can tell you it will make it worse. What will the effect of the restructuring of our health system have on this problem? I can tell you it will make it worse. Focusing on changing the structure within our health system without changing the root cause of the problem is not solving the issue, which is that we have a health postcode lottery of outcomes in this country, and that is made worse by the health workforce shortages across this country as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELastly, I will refer to our aged care sector in this country. These are the people that are working with our most vulnerable, our elderly within our community, those that do not have a voice, those that need our protection. The aged care sector has confirmed to me today that they have, they estimate, between 300 and 500 registered nursing vacancies in this country alone. That is on top of the 4,183 vacancies that I\u2019ve already quoted. But wait; there is more. There are over 300 additional vacancies of healthcare assistants, those people that are working with our elderly population within our rest homes every single day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe have a significant crisis on our hands, and this Government has no plan to resolve it. We need to fix this problem and get on with resolving the workforce shortages within this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022434959c45813426984a6b5a012d51c17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022434959c45813426984a6b5a012d51c17\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E [Uses sign language] Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to start my short call by following on from my colleague Terisa Ngobi, first, in saying, as I stand here beside the desk of our colleague Kiritapu Allan: w\u0101hine, Smear Your Mea\u2014may I just say that now and wear that and tautoko that. Support your women to do it because it is so important. I am so delighted that this country\u2019s Government has actually taken the step of doing something that is going to save women\u2019s lives with the investment in cervical screening. That is what a Budget that puts wellbeing into a crucial place looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI want to talk about another of those initiatives that this Government used last year that is making a real, measurable difference to the lives of tamariki all over New Zealand. I want to talk about the difference it is making to lives in my home town in Whang\u0101rei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EOn Monday, I was at a little primary school on the southern outskirts of Whang\u0101rei, a place called Ruakaka School. It has about 250 kids. It is growing extremely rapidly. They have 60 staff doing an amazing job. When I went out there to talk to the principal and to talk to the staff, I asked them about the school lunch programme. Principal Marilyn Dunn said to me, \u201CI\u2019m almost tearing up here. The programme is fantastic.\u201D What they have done is they have four people from wh\u0101nau in the community locally who have been employed on a part-time basis to make school lunches for those 250-odd kids every day. I went to visit those people and I saw them in their workplaces and I saw an awesome selection of salad and ham sandwiches, blueberry muffins that were delicious, and I heard about the difference it is making to the kids\u2019 attention span; to kids who previously did not last the afternoon, who now maintain mood and behaviour throughout the day, and who are able to keep learning; to wh\u0101nau who are now employed, who previously were not. I saw the pride and the commitment on the faces of those women at Ruakaka School on Monday and how well they are serving their community, our community, and our tamariki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI heard of the stories at Tikipunga High School, another low-decile school in my community, and actually the high school I went to. I went and spoke to the principal there, and what he talked to me about was the fact that demand is such that they have had to put on an extra lunch sitting to cope with the kids who want to come and have their healthy lunches\u2014again, provided within that school by a local mum who has now got a job thanks to this Government; talk about doing double duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI want to talk about what it is meaning for the providers who, rather than the schools employing people directly, they are the schools\u2014and many of them, 22 out of the 40-odd schools in Whang\u0101rei, are getting school lunches; about 15,000 kids over Te Tai Tokerau. The other way we are doing it is we are employing businesses within the community. One of those businesses is an outfit called Food for Life. This is a Hare Krishna outfit run by a gentleman called Buddhi. I had spent some time with Buddhi before this programme was announced, and what I know from him is that he was providing, with volunteers and donations and fund-raising, 1,000 healthy school lunches to schools in Whang\u0101rei before this happened. They were awesome schools, they were awesome lunches, I have been there and helped him dish out. He is doing 3,000 lunches now, and rather than a handful of volunteers working daily and wondering whether they are going to be able to afford what they are doing for the kids who need it, he is now employing 10 staff above minimum wage in Whang\u0101rei. That is 10 people who didn\u2019t have jobs before, and 2,000 extra kids who are getting healthy lunches every single day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThat is what it looks like when a Government puts its people first when it is making its financial decisions. I am so looking forward to tomorrow\u2019s Budget and continuing the good work that we are doing to support our people in the recovery of this\u2014not just from COVID but of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c23d29e9eb6c4945ba9dc113863f7903\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226088da6e0a6e4bef9118f71d96378a9a\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228c2102461a0048feb5a0ded81978c370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c2102461a0048feb5a0ded81978c370\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd5360ea15b4ef29dc15a27aaeddd53\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f12b29e0c042f1852d86939e8c3649\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Hon Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1286b0b713941858c79907a8c9093b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1286b0b713941858c79907a8c9093b6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Normally you would say, Mr Speaker, \u201CThe time for the debate has expired.\u201D That\u2019s what I was waiting to hear. But, anyway. I move, That urgency be accorded the passing through all stages of the Medicines Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe need to pass this bill under urgency has been widely canvassed. It follows a High Court decision yesterday about processes to grant provisional consent to some approved medicines. The ruling draws into question the approval process for, among other things, two contraceptive medications; two flu vaccinations; the COVID-19 vaccination; and an electrolyte solution, which is used in our hospitals. The bill removes the ambiguity that the courts have drawn into question. It means that those things can be continued to be used, and it ultimately addresses the issue for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002257a7472ee8194a84876af49fd807c80c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257a7472ee8194a84876af49fd807c80c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022546023ae040e4e62ba97ea2522ffb086\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216d865f0342f4f23b975cd7236b0b8f1\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022de3b222ae71f4edc83effa752b37c9d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de3b222ae71f4edc83effa752b37c9d2\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. After consultation with the other parties, I seek leave for the first reading of the Medicines Amendment Bill and the third reading of the Medicines Amendment Bill to be read without debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225df6872b14354de4b081ab9b283f4d2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df6872b14354de4b081ab9b283f4d2e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that process? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022353a6df73ab8465da69054de1ad164f2\u0022\u003EMedicines Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ce3331c02d7484b9671c831283ad998\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b64ef3479a2047b1952b8bcf3548d93f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b64ef3479a2047b1952b8bcf3548d93f\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I present a legislative statement on the Medicines Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a3f689dc464fe584dad68f483d6aca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdbc6a96a5864d70a9c27dbea8111ed6\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Medicines Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e08b512a672b4ffb8bb647c0f3d37c6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e08b512a672b4ffb8bb647c0f3d37c6c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022419d25e49bea40259f0f45c7423da1b9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022adb10f5d1a884017a59ced6c7f9c46a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adb10f5d1a884017a59ced6c7f9c46a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I move, That the Medicines Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThis bill proposes to amend the Medicines Act 1981 to clarify the appropriate use of provisional consents to sell and use medicines in New Zealand. The bill also validates existing consents. The bill will ensure that New Zealanders continue to have timely and safe access to effective medicines through this channel. Section 23 of the Act allows medicines and vaccines to be provisionally consented for early access if there is a significant clinical or public health need. Importantly, that clinical need must be weighed against the risks as prescribed in section 22(1) of the Medicines Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe bill removes the requirement for provisional consent to be granted on a restricted basis for the treatment of a limited number of patients. In doing so, it should be clear that this provision, perhaps referencing concerns about orphan drugs, did not protect safety. That was always achieved through the risk assessment prescribed in section 22(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe amendments in the bill are consistent with the policy intent of section 23, which is for New Zealanders to have timely access to safe and effective medicines where there is a public health need. The Medicines Act is an outdated piece of legislation that has not kept pace with international regulatory practice. Responding to the COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted an urgent need for amendments to the Medicines Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EAs can be seen from Part 2, there are a number of other situations where timely access to safe and effective medicines is important\u2014other pandemic vaccines, medicines where a class is affected by supply shortages and alternatives are needed rapidly. I would also note that the Therapeutic Products Bill, which the Ministry of Health is currently working on ahead of introduction to Parliament next year, will repeal and replace the Medicines Act and address wider issues with its relevance and application. The amendment today brings forward some of those planned changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe bill does not affect existing requirements related to safety, quality, and efficacy of the medicines in assessment of the therapeutic benefits and risks. Also, the bill does not affect the ability for conditions to be imposed on the use of a medicine where these are justified and consistent with the reasons for granting provisional consent. The bill will validate existing provisional consents, including the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. Validation will ensure that medicines currently granted provisional consent continue to be available to New Zealanders where there is deemed to be a clinical or public health need. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002271902f83fe8749449c156fc7e5640aaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271902f83fe8749449c156fc7e5640aaa\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I was momentarily taken by surprise. I thought the Minister was going to spend a little more time outlining what is a reasonably unusual bill, as the departmental disclosure statement notes. We are retrospectively dealing with something here. I refer members to page 8, paragraph 4.3 of the departmental disclosure statement: \u201CThe Bill has retrospective effect and \u2026 [impacts] on matters that are subject to\u201D a prospective court decision. So the Parliament is going to do two slightly unusual things here, two things that we don\u2019t like to do, as the Attorney-General will agree, I\u2019m sure, which is legislate retrospectively or legislate with the effect of having a retrospective effect, but also at the same time legislating for matters that are currently before the courts. There is, as the regulatory impact statement notes, a prospective court decision. Now, it doesn\u2019t mean Parliament can\u2019t do it, and actually we in the National Party agree with doing it. But I am slightly surprised we didn\u2019t hear slightly more from the Minister. Perhaps we can get into that in the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENational agrees with the need for this legislation and we\u2019ll be supporting it, and we agree with the urgency for which it needs to be passed. The reason why we\u2019re debating it, of course, is the decision of Her Honour Justice Ellis delivered yesterday in the High Court in relation to relief sought by applicants essentially trying to stop the roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccine. Members may want to refer to paragraph 75 of the judgment, which is, I think, the key one, which is the paragraph in which Her Honour notes that it is \u201Creasonably arguable\u201D, her words, that provisional consent granted to the Pfizer vaccine was ultra vires the Medicines Act 1981.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got to say, having read the judgment and considered the legislative schema, it\u2019s hard to conclude that she\u2019s wrong, because on a plain language reading of the Act, the now very old Act or at least 30-year-old Act, \u201Ca limited number\u201D of patients can\u2019t really be described as the whole country. That, basically, is what the case turned on, because the Government has granted the Pfizer vaccine for everyone over the age of 16 who wants one, and we agree with that. That\u2019s a good thing. We want everyone to go and get the vaccine. But, of course, it\u2019s provisional consent, purportedly granted for a limited number of patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe argument is very simple. If you\u2019re granting the vaccine for everyone, that\u2019s not a limited number. When you want 3.5 million people to get it out of a population of New Zealand, the 5 million, that\u2019s not a limited number of people. And I\u2019ve got to say, you know, you read the legislation and you think, well, that makes perfect sense. Notwithstanding, as the Minister for COVID-19 Response has noted, that has been the practice for successive years, not just in relation to the COVID vaccine and vaccines, plural, but in relation to other things as well. But a plain language reading of the Act, I think, essentially dictates the outcome that Her Honour reached in the court case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI was always taught at law school that you start with the plain ordinary meaning of the statute. You look at the ordinary meaning of the words, and the ordinary meaning of the phrase \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D can\u2019t mean 3.5 million people. That\u2019s not \u201Climited\u201D by definition. That is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo I think, frankly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d349e11bfdc4b4689cc5d2ee8d8c108\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are there in the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c40a12bf65d74c65b47e59a6d93b2ac9\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, indeed. I think the judgment is correct. It\u2019s hard to escape the logic of the judgment. But I also think it\u2019s worth noting Her Honour\u2019s conclusion at paragraph 73 around the margin of appreciation given to the Government is the right one as well. It\u2019s quite an elegant judgment in the sense that basically Her Honour says, \u201CApplicants have a point. It is probably true that the granting of provisional consent is ultra-vires the Act, but I\u2019m declining to order relief that they have sought\u201D\u2014which is basically stop the roll-out\u2014\u201Cbecause of the massive impact that would obviously have on the country.\u201D We\u2019re well under way, or at least tolerably well under way, in terms of the Pfizer vaccine roll-out in New Zealand. The last thing, I hope everyone in Parliament will agree, is that we have to stop doing that, and so Her Honour declined to order relief. I\u2019m sure that constitutional scholars out there watching, like Dean Knight from the Victoria University law school, are going to love the idea that the margin of appreciation has yet again been entered into the High Court register of cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe agree with the bill and we agree with the need to act with urgency, and we\u2019ll support it, but I do want to make a couple of points. I want to know from the Government, and perhaps we can get into this through other speakers and potentially in the committee stage: firstly, what was the Government told about the chances of this happening? And, secondly, when did they get told? Because I\u2019ve got to say to you, when you read the Act, it is pretty obvious when you read the Act that \u201Ca limited number of people\u201D is not going to be the adult population of New Zealand, and any plain language reading of the Act dictates the outcome that Her Honour Justice Ellis reached yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m willing to suggest that the Government got some advice at some point telling them that. And frankly, if they didn\u2019t get advice telling them that, someone is not doing their job properly in the Ministry of Health and/or Crown Law. Because I would have thought a sensible, competent Government would have gone to the officials and said, \u201CWe\u2019re really keen to get the Pfizer vaccine rolled out as quickly as possible. It\u2019s very important for New Zealand. What\u2019s the best way of making that happen?\u201D And they would have been told, \u201CWell, the Medsafe process is this and it\u2019s ABC and X, Y, Z, and Pfizer has got to apply and then they\u2019ve got to get provisional approval.\u201D I\u2019m willing to bet at some point the Government was told there was a chance that that might be illegal. I\u2019m willing to bet that that was the case. And it either came from the Ministry of Health lawyers or it came from Crown Law, probably the latter, and that would have gone to Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI also reckon Ministers were told the way to make this absolutely clear, to avoid any doubt, is to quickly pass a bill through Parliament to make it clear that that can happen, that what has happened, which is the roll-out of the provisional consent for the Pfizer vaccine\u2014quickly pass a bill through Parliament to make it clear that can happen. So basically what we\u2019re doing now, which is tidying up the mess that\u2019s been created, we could have done back in October or November or maybe even September\u2014or maybe not September, because we weren\u2019t sitting before the election, but maybe straight after the election. I\u2019m willing to bet Ministers were told that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe question for the Government is: were they told that? I reckon they were. And if they were told that, when were they told that? Because if they were told that in August maybe, when we started talking about the vaccines, or maybe September or October when the first contracts were signed with Pfizer and the other companies, then I\u2019ve got to say that we\u2019ll support the legislation, but that\u2019s untidy. You know, we\u2019re now in May 2021, and if Ministers were told in September last year, \u201CActually, there\u2019s a chance that what you want to happen in the next few months is not going to work out for you legally. You should probably fix that up and you should probably go and legislate.\u201D, that is untidy. It\u2019s not going to bring the Government down. I\u2019m not claiming that, you know, the world is coming to an end and that Labour\u2019s massive majority is suddenly going to capitulate and crumble. No one\u2019s claiming that; I\u2019m certainly not. I mean, God knows, if only it did\u2014but that\u2019s not going to happen. But it\u2019s untidy and it\u2019s bad lawmaking, and, frankly, it\u2019s bad governance. It really is. If you\u2019re told as a Government that it would be tidier to make sure that the law is in place to expedite the roll-out and make sure it\u2019s all legally done according to the law and you don\u2019t do it, that\u2019s untidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI want to know from the Government what they were told and I want to know when they were told. And I would encourage the Government in relation to its legal advice to waive privilege if required, because it\u2019s in the public interest that I think we know that. I\u2019ve asked the Minister for COVID-19 Response for the legal advice in relation to this, and he\u2019s declined to give that to me on the grounds of legal professional privilege. That\u2019s the Government\u2019s right, but it\u2019s also up to the Government to waive that privilege. I see the Attorney-General is here and I\u2019d encourage the Attorney-General to waive that privilege. We need some answers from the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed46c36c0dcf44b08ce378ba03da881f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed46c36c0dcf44b08ce378ba03da881f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221ace47544d1f491a9e3191ddc7feb3fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ace47544d1f491a9e3191ddc7feb3fd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the second reading of the Medicines Amendment Bill. Can I thank the Opposition parties for their support for the bill. I also want to make a few comments about this. Can I endorse some of the comments that have been made in respect of the careful way in which Justice Ellis went about her work. I thank her for that. I think this is a good example of the different branches of Government showing respect for each other in respect of what are important issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe member Chris Bishop is correct that the judgment, whilst it makes no finding that the decision was illegal, because there has not yet been a substantive hearing of that point, suggests that the Government looks at the issue because, as Chris Bishop has said and Minister Verrall has also acknowledged, there is a doubt as to whether the plain words of the existing Medicines Act, which only allows provisional approvals for a limited number of patients, are sufficient to cover the breadth of vaccination that is intended in respect of the COVID roll-out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe court suggested that we look at this despite the fact that the Medicines Act has been in place for decades, and similar broadly used vaccines have been given provisional approvals previously, perhaps also with a question mark over at least some of them. I found the analysis of Justice Ellis interesting in her comment that the evidence on the affidavit, evidence in front of her in respect of the application for injunction, showed that often provisional approvals don\u2019t specify the number of patients who are going to be treated by a proposed new therapy, not always vaccines. But in a lot of those cases, it\u2019s self-evident, because the class of people who would benefit from a medicine that\u2019s been introduced for a small class of people is obviously for a small class of people, or a smaller class of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe legislation that we have before us today, effectively, changes the provisional regime to remove the \u201Climited number of patients\u201D part of the rules relating to a provisional approval. It does that not just in respect of the COVID vaccine, but in respect of the other medicines that are listed in Schedule 1AA, which include the annual influenza jab that is widely used and has been approved under this methodology for many, many years, under successive Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EA number of medicines have been granted provisional consents over the years, under both National and Labour Governments, and it\u2019s clear that the provisional approval or consent power clearly has value for New Zealand. And, again, the reasons for that are discussed in the judgment, including the fact that under a provisional consent, further information can be required to be provided by the provider of the medicine as a condition of the provisional consent, in a way which is not as clear in respect of final consents, and, therefore, it is often desirable that a provisional consent be granted on those terms because it can\u2019t be granted on those terms for a final consent. That, obviously, is something that probably she looked at more broadly, and already the Minister of Health has made it clear that there will be a new Therapeutic Products Bill introduced to replace the Medicines Act, which will look at that more holistically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, we\u2019re left with a provision in the drafting of the Medicines Act, which the judge described as \u201Cinapt\u201D\u2014that was her word. We\u2019ve taken the advice, essentially, that was given by the court that we look at this urgently, and as a House we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the question that the member asked in respect of legal advice, I\u2019m not going to give him legal advice or waive legal advice, but I can confirm in the House, which would have consequences for me were it incorrect, that Ministers were not provided with that advice as to the issue that the member seems to think that we were alert to earlier; we weren\u2019t. This first came to the attention of the Government upon the filing of the court proceedings, not before. The member might be correct to ask whether it should have been, but I can confirm that that wasn\u2019t brought to the attention of Ministers earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other point I would make is that the court\u2019s decision yesterday confirmed that Medsafe did a robust and comprehensive evaluation of the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and that Medsafe\u2019s decision is consistent with decisions that have been made in other countries, including Australia. I would also note that this is working out very well with this vaccine in other parts of the world, where many millions of doses have already been administered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe court said that Medsafe\u2019s processes for analysing the COVID-19 vaccine went above and beyond what is normally required. I was pleased to see that recorded. The court commented that \u201Cit is difficult to see how the assessment process could \u2026 have been more thorough.\u201D, and that New Zealanders can have confidence. I believe that all New Zealanders\u2014on the basis of those comments and because of the confidence that we have and the care that has been taken by New Zealand\u2019s medical authorities\u2014can have confidence in Medsafe\u2019s decision to approve the COVID-19 vaccine. So the COVID-19 immunisation programme will continue to be rolled out here, as it is in other parts of the world, and I, of course, for one\u2014and I\u2019m sure I\u2019m joined by other members in this House\u2014am so pleased about that, because it\u2019s such an essential part of enabling New Zealand\u2019s recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, and keeping our people safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, I would just again note that this is a very simple bill. In effect, it takes the words out\u2014\u201Climited number of patients\u201D\u2014from the provisional approval criteria. It does that prospectively, but also retrospectively, in respect of the decisions and in respect of the provisional consents that are validated, set out in Part 1 of new Schedule 1AA, and listed in clause 1(1)(a) to (f). And, as I say, it includes the H5N1 influenza vaccine. I endorse this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1c726b0d0304687bbb9e5211cd9ecf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1c726b0d0304687bbb9e5211cd9ecf6\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on this bill, which we are clearly supporting. And just to remind ourselves\u2014we find ourselves in this situation because, as compared to other countries, we don\u2019t have an EUA, an emergency use application, which the US and, certainly, the UK and other countries have. So we\u2019ve had to rely on a section 23, provisional consent. If we imagine the initial intention of an EUA-type procedure, it actually came out of the 1980s with the HIV/AIDS epidemic, where we needed to move really quickly to progress medicines that we believed had core net-benefit over disadvantages. And that whole decade of needing HIV medicines brought us to the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think, in the early 2000s, the Food and Drug Administration first approved an EUA for anthrax for military staff and then in 2009 it became available for civilians for H1N1\u2014Tamiflu, I believe, is what it is. So we find ourselves in this position because we\u2019re trying to jury-rig a section 23, provisional consent, into what other countries have used as an EUA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to support what my colleague, Chris Bishop, was saying about wondering when the Government was first aware that a section 23 may not be suitable. We were certainly querying other mechanisms; I\u2019m looking back at written questions in March around section 29, whether there was something there. So we know that for many months, we\u2019ve been raising the question around section 23 and, as Chris Bishop said, if the Government had some concerns then, then let\u2019s see it. Let\u2019s hear what action was taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think, if I look at this, I\u2019m just interested to know if this has been futureproofed in any way. So I can see the elements in the bill that are going to be carried over into this new amendment. I see the sodium chloride, I presume that\u2019s the diluent that goes with the Pfizer vaccine. I can see some oral contraceptives as well. My question is: if we run out, for whatever reason, of Pfizer vaccine, are we coming back to do AstraZeneca in a new amendment? Is that what we\u2019re needing to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAnd I\u2019d be interested to hear any discussions around whether we\u2019ve considered the merits or otherwise of futureproofing this bill, both for other coronavirus vaccines that may be required or, indeed, to make it clear that the routine flu vaccine is covered by this. I do understand that the Therapeutic Products Bill will fix all of these issues and this redundancy, but that\u2019s going to take a lot of time. If we do need to move quickly, if we do run out of Pfizer vaccine and do end up moving to AstraZeneca or an alternative, again, I come back to that point: are we coming back to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be interested to know if this is being futureproofed, but our support is very clear on this and we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002218fe81ce0234421c950c51c73124b6ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218fe81ce0234421c950c51c73124b6ca\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party will be supporting this bill. Many of the earlier speakers have outlined the reasons why it needs to happen under urgency. I just want to really briefly go through the background to all of this. Obviously, COVID-19 has been devastating for the countries that have had uncontrolled outbreaks, including the country of my birth. Huge numbers of people have died prematurely due to COVID-19. Many, many others, some who didn\u2019t even experience the illness in a serious way, have had ongoing health impacts from the disease, and it\u2019s unclear what the lifetime impacts will be from that. So the rapid development of an effective vaccine against COVID-19 has been fantastic and is something the Green Party welcomes, and it is going to save lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe mRNA vaccine, of which Pfizer is one, has been shown to even reduce ongoing symptoms of people who have already had the illness, and the severity of those symptoms. So not only is it preventative but it can actually help people who have had those ongoing health impacts, and so the Green Party is very, very supportive of the Government\u2019s plan to roll out the Pfizer vaccine to all New Zealanders. This is something that means that people won\u2019t have to live in fear of getting COVID-19 and having those really debilitating ongoing impacts or, potentially, dying prematurely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOf course, one of the really terrifying things about COVID-19\u2014and I know someone who was in this situation in the United States, where they initially caught the illness early on in the pandemic and were relatively fine, and over a year went by and they caught it a second time, and they actually were severely ill, and two of them died the second time they got it. So this is a really bad illness, and I am aware that there are people who are out there fear-mongering about this vaccine. I can tell those people, or anyone who might hear from them, that those people have no idea what they\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAny potential negative side-effects that have been observed with the vaccine are minuscule and tiny compared to the illness itself, and so we are far better off getting this vaccine, and we\u2019re quite lucky to be in this situation, to be in a country that has been safe from COVID-19 for most of the past year. We\u2019re in a situation where we are able to afford and to get the vaccine. There are some countries in the world that desperately need this vaccine, and they\u2019re not getting it. There\u2019s not a plan to roll it out to all of their citizens, which I think is a problem and something that we as a global community need to work on, because we\u2019re all better off if this illness is not running rampant around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo there has been much discussion about the technical reasons. What this comes down to, the reason for the legislative change today, is ultimately that the Medicines Act 1981 is out of date, has been unable to keep up with rapid advances in technology and medicines, and it\u2019s actually something that, when I was health spokesperson for the Green Party, was constantly raised with me by people who had different forms of cancer. They weren\u2019t able to access some of the most cutting-edge treatments because our process for approving medicines is actually very, very slow and doesn\u2019t allow for that widespread, rapid uptake of something. So it is important. This is a quick fix to that. It\u2019s not the long-term fix, which is to move to the Therapeutic Products Bill, which I know has been a complicated piece of work that has taken a long time, especially given that we had to face the pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut just to read from the judgment, to reassure anyone who might be concerned about why the Government is changing the law, it is because the provisional consent was only\u2014in the law, it said it could be approved for use for only a limited number of people, and, obviously, we\u2019re not doing this for a limited number of people; it needs to be for everyone. But \u201Cit must be recognised\u201D\u2014and I quote here\u2014\u201Cthat the process gone through here was not an orthodox provisional consent process\u2014it went above and beyond \u2026 it is difficult to see how the assessment process could, in the circumstances, have been more thorough.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo there isn\u2019t risk that people need to be worried about. This was a thorough approval process. Both my parents and most of my friends in the United States have already been vaccinated, most of them with the Pfizer vaccine, and they\u2019re all doing really, really well and are hugely relieved to have received the vaccine. We\u2019re looking forward to the roll-out, widespread, of the vaccine here in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00229881182849e548fc9dfe9df2c36e2d39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229881182849e548fc9dfe9df2c36e2d39\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in support of the Medicines Amendment Bill. I\u2019ve got to say it\u2019s the most fantastic time to be alive. Thanks to the twin miracles of capitalism and science, the same company that gave us Viagra has now given us a vaccine that will end this epidemic. What a time to be alive. I think it is absolutely critical that we roll it out and make it widely available so that we can get our lives back. I also want to tell you, echoing what Julie Anne Genter has said, that just last Friday, ACT\u2019s deputy leader, Brooke van Velden, and I were vaccinated. We thought a bit about jumping the queue. We were worried about that perception. I want to make clear we answered the call from the Minister for COVID-19 Response. We considered the fact he was acting on behalf of the Queen and we thought it is our duty to be ceremonially vaccinated in front of the TV cameras for the country. We did it with no fear and I apologise to our political opponents\u2014and particularly the Minister for COVID-19 Response, who asked us to get it done\u2014neither of us have died; we haven\u2019t turned into crocodiles\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228823314f0585494696969e7d74579cf0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you don\u2019t know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a13b05c5a64f1c8f4ca23c9d4db9a4\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Bridges says I don\u2019t know that. Maybe I have died and this is parliamentary heaven. I have to say, if those were the circumstances I think things would be a little bit different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c3f367e05942c2830277b0989e980c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Run us through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac802364b5b14b16acf5ed59c2a74a07\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Bridges asked me to run through that. I can say Simon Bridges would be here and he\u2019d never get kicked out. But seriously, this is a very serious matter. It is important that we actually have access to this vaccine. And I think, actually, a little bit of levity is the right response to some of the objections that have been made to it. I mean, let me give you the\u2014not a medical opinion, but just a humble electrical engineer\u2019s version of how it works, for people who may be concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMessenger RNA is inside us; it\u2019s everywhere. It\u2019s the way that our body internally communicates, stimulates ourselves to create proteins. And the way that this vaccine works is that it takes some of the messenger RNA that is in COVID-19, or at least identical to it, that stimulates the growth of the spike proteins. And when that mRNA enters the cells of a human, as it entered mine last Friday, the immune system of the human says, \u201CHello, hello, we\u2019ve got something here like this. I\u2019m going to generate a response to destroy it.\u201D And the immune system learns to destroy those spike proteins. Now, within a few days, all of the mRNA that came in the vaccine is gone. It\u2019s very unstable. That\u2019s why it has to be refrigerated at minus 80 degrees. The spike proteins that your cells produced upon receiving the mRNA have been destroyed by your immune system. The only thing that remains is a memory in one\u2019s immune system of what it\u2019s like to fight something that looks like COVID-19 and if COVID-19 spike proteins do appear in your body, your immune system\u2019s ready to fight them. I actually think that\u2019s pretty cool. But it also shows that you have absolutely nothing to fear because all you\u2019re left with is the memory of how to fight it. I just ask the good doctors on the other side of the House if that\u2019s roughly what happens and they say, yes, that\u2019s actually a pretty good description. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll make a few other comments. This whole saga has led me to ask: why on earth does New Zealand have Medsafe? And some people might say, \u201COh, you\u2019ve got to have Medsafe.\u201D Well, let me ask the question: has Medsafe ever assessed a medicine that\u2019s been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, and by the Australians, by the British, and said, \u201COh no, no, the rest of the world\u2019s got it wrong. New Zealanders can\u2019t use it.\u201D Has that ever happened? I don\u2019t think it\u2019s ever happened. And the question is: is it necessary for New Zealand to have its whole process and rigmarole, which has brought us into this House tonight to retrospectively change legislation, in order to delay the access of New Zealanders to pharmaceuticals that were funded offshore long ago? You see, the sad fact is that, due to low productivity growth and an aversion to putting funds into medicine, we actually are usually at the back of the bus, the last in the queue, to get new pharmaceuticals. So by the time we get them, they\u2019ve already been signed off by a bunch of other countries\u2019 similar authorities. And I just wonder if we shouldn\u2019t be automatically accepting their approval. It\u2019s not that humans are substantially different in New Zealand from humans in other countries\u2014not as far as I\u2019m aware. So, that\u2019s the first question, but it\u2019s particularly acute in the case of this particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re here changing the law in order that the COVID-19 vaccine and some other medicines can be used in New Zealand. And where are we? Well, we\u2019re at a stage where many other countries have reached 60, 70 percent vaccination rates. We are just getting started and the Government\u2019s only just found out that its scheme for approving pharmaceuticals under the law that it had was actually illegal. The Attorney-General got up earlier in this debate and he said, \u201CActually, we were given no advice that this might happen.\u201D Two questions: number one, what were the officials\u2014Crown Law and the Ministry of Health\u2014doing that they didn\u2019t tender the advice that maybe this would be a problem? And number two, what were the Ministers doing in a governance capacity if they never thought to ask the question? You know, this whole vaccine thing, which is basically our strategy to get out of lockdown, to open up New Zealand, and to end a pandemic, or at least an epidemic within New Zealand\u2014you know, that thing\u2014is it legal? Did any Ministers think to ask that question? It would have been a pretty smart question to ask but none of them bothered to ask it. That\u2019s why we\u2019re here doing it under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut indeed, the vaccine roll-out has been so shambolic and chaotic that we heard in question time today that we are now second to last in the OECD for the roll-out. And why is that? It depends which week you ask which answer you get from the Government. One week it\u2019s because we decided to be kind and let other countries have it. And then the Government is asked, \u201CSo was that actually a conscious decision that was made?\u201D \u201COh, well, not sure. It\u2019s just good that we\u2019re here now.\u201D OK, and then we\u2019re told\u2014this was Stuart Nash on ZB this morning\u2014\u201CThe pharmaceutical companies decided not to give it because other countries needed it more than us.\u201D Oh, really? So that was the conversation and the Government accepted that? \u201COh, well, we\u2019re not sure about that.\u201D And then the answer is, \u201COh, well, you know, we have it, but we don\u2019t have the capacity to distribute it. We didn\u2019t think to ask pharmacists to be vaccinators.\u201D This Government literally can\u2019t organise a vaccination at a pharmacy. So then it\u2019s \u201CWe\u2019ve got the vaccine, but we don\u2019t have the distribution network.\u201D It depends which week you ask which answer you get. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis latest legal snafu is just the latest in a series of mistakes where we have chaos and disorganisation in the roll-out of a vaccine. And the reason that this is such an egregious breach is that vaccination is New Zealand\u2019s exit strategy. It\u2019s the only way that New Zealand has to get out of locking people out and locking people down because we have no other response. We had to go into lockdown, fundamentally, because our healthcare system couldn\u2019t handle any greater outbreaks. We\u2019ve had to close the border because it\u2019s so risky to let people in because our contact tracing and our testing aren\u2019t up to it. The vaccine was the last line of defence, and yet even the roll-out of the vaccine has been so shambolic and chaotic we either don\u2019t have it, can\u2019t distribute it, or we\u2019re just being too kind to take it off anyone else because we\u2019re so great\u2014depends which week you ask which answer you get. And yet now we also find out the Ministers didn\u2019t even think, \u201CHey, this big strategy we\u2019ve got, is it even legal?\u201D No, and so, of course, people went off to court, tested their rights, and now we\u2019re here in Parliament retrospectively changing the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI have to say the ACT Party, much like National, is happy to support the change. It\u2019s something that should happen. It has to happen in this circumstance. But like so many circumstances in which this country and this Parliament have found themselves throughout the COVID-19 response, it is a Government that is fundamentally reactive and never proactive, always on the back foot, fixing the thing that happened two weeks ago, instead of actually treating New Zealanders like adults, taking us into the confidence and the honest conversation about the future of the COVID response so that we can all be part of it. That would be a better way for this Government to respond but, instead, here we are under urgency cleaning up another mess. Despite that, the ACT Party commends this bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed728bc685574608b0c12518f98cb257\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed728bc685574608b0c12518f98cb257\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage forthwith. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Medicines Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cba33c930f044bbcaf3a28f05c6ffa2e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd192f703a4d46f2821d3f83a5348ed1\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendment to provisional consenting provision\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225851854feda341d292893be76e6e7fe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225851854feda341d292893be76e6e7fe0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The House in committee on the Medicines Amendment Bill. Members, we now come to the committee stage of the Medicines Amendment Bill. This bill will be debated in parts. We come first to Part 1, which includes the debate on clause 4, the amendment to the provisional consenting provision. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4a843362e774df1a8378088002006fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4a843362e774df1a8378088002006fa\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a fairly simple question for the Minister in the chair. New Schedule 1AA, inserted by clause 6, Part 1 clause 1(1) states, \u201CThe following provisional consents must be treated as having been given under section 23\u201D, then lists a series of, I think, six medicines that are consented. Now, of course, we\u2019re doing this under urgency. Parliament\u2019s been taking up its time, not doing any other business, to get this right. Due to the, sort of, fast-moving and fluid and, dare I say it, haphazard nature of the process, can the Minister just assure everybody that in this list of six pharmaceuticals, these are the only ones that need to be treated in this way? It would be terrible to wake up to the news tomorrow and find that, actually, there was some other medicine or some other category of medicines that were caught so that we had to then go and do all this all again, especially on Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022889db4f0f58547f9af70fb5925ddf504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022889db4f0f58547f9af70fb5925ddf504\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I can assure the member that these are the medicines that need to be treated in this way\u2014though, of course, we\u2019ve amended the Act so there is an opportunity for prospective applications for new medicines that fit the criteria for provisional consent to be made. It might be helpful for me to describe what the basis for other medicines listed there are and why they fit the provisional consent criteria, because I think it\u2019s illustrative of what the provisional consent avenue seeks to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ESo the first one, labelled \u201C(a)\u201D there is, of course, the COVID-19 vaccine that we\u2019re discussing. But there are five further ones: item (b) and item (e) are both oral contraceptive pills. And I think this is a really interesting illustration, because we experienced both issues with manufacturer problems with supply, and also supply chain disruption in the last year. That meant that there was a realistic possibility of there being no oral contraceptive pill available. Now, if we were only to have an emergency medicine authorisation process, I\u2019m not sure if that would meet the definition of an emergency. But there is certainly a clear public health need for that. Both of those medicines were approved in other jurisdictions, and on that basis, and the basis of other data that was able to be provided to Medsafe, they were approved. Item (d) and item (f) are both influenza A vaccines, suitable for use in a pandemic, and they have both been subject to conditional approval since 2012\u2014obviously with the two-yearly renewal of that status, as is required by all conditional approvals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022cece54a10aa242c5bef94ad4abfb8e62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cece54a10aa242c5bef94ad4abfb8e62\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I note that we\u2019re talking about the Schedule to the bill. So I seek leave for all parts to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223d0acccfae544ce2901717489e4c8c4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d0acccfae544ce2901717489e4c8c4c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218d926ebecf24ec581260c4404edb57e\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022169a4b6e12d24e6388a2494d25809353\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022169a4b6e12d24e6388a2494d25809353\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Minister for her answer to that previous question from my colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a76d3061efc431cb83e8d5e5b0af8bc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry, Chris Bishop. Just procedurally, I need to put\u2014the question is that Part 1 stand part. [Interruption] No. The question is that Parts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022630c6dee86dd42f88bb4f51ad8ebf23c\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, thank you. I was just trying to be helpful to the committee. Clearly, maybe not! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220265248707aa4af994639f6f03b6ff94\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No, very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81c53645169470280baf389f903a395\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh thank you, Madam Chair, very kind. Thank you to the Minister for that answer to my colleague\u2019s question. Following on from the comments from the Attorney-General in the second reading of the bill, I note his response to my question through my speech, which was basically two questions: what was the Government told and when were they told it? His answer was the first the Government knew about the possibility of a legal challenge to the roll-out of the Pfizer vaccine was when the court proceedings were filed which produced the judgment that has prompted this case, which begs a series of other questions, the first of which is: did the Government ask for advice in relation to the legality of the Pfizer vaccine roll-out prior to the court proceedings being filed; and, if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb6db672196d4203b09024bb2a702b7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb6db672196d4203b09024bb2a702b7f\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d be very\u2014just not sure if that is a question in relation to this bill, and I\u2019m sure this will be canvassed thoroughly at future question times, when the Minister responsible will be available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022033a060369dd413ab63e0bdd9e6ee6ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022033a060369dd413ab63e0bdd9e6ee6ca\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Madam Chair, I think the Opposition have been very gracious and quite generous. We could be doing three readings and debating a committee stage on the parts, was it not for the fact that the Opposition have agreed to actually truncate this debate so that the Government can get more of its business done later in the day. Now, I wonder if you might consider asking the Minister to be a bit more candid in answers to her questions in return for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea5b2b113f543d9a2bdaf9a6ce5042d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea5b2b113f543d9a2bdaf9a6ce5042d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. On that point of order, it was my view that the question asked by Chris Bishop was in order; however, it is not to me, not up to the Chair, to determine the quantum or the quality of the Minister\u2019s answer. And Mr Bishop has further opportunities, as does every member in this committee stage, to probe the Minister on that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdb1c3fc51894b2db7ab3ff07f7e2bdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdb1c3fc51894b2db7ab3ff07f7e2bdb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I think it\u2019s a very serious question that my colleagues Chris Bishop and David Seymour have put to the committee. We have an unusual situation where we have a court ruling and we have the Government using the powers of this Parliament to overrule that court process. In many instances that I have seen Parliament do this, often it\u2019s said that you would allow the benefit of the individual that\u2019s taken the court action to get the benefit of that, and that is just unconscionable in the public health situation that we have in the world and in New Zealand, and that is why National is choosing to be so cooperative in what is a pretty extraordinary exercise of parliamentary power to override the decision of the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I want to go back to the very real question that my colleague Chris Bishop has asked, and that is that\u2014and our Government experienced similar such experiences when dealing with the earthquakes, both Kaik\u014Dura and\u2014and had to take extraordinary action. And when we did, as I\u2019m sure you would in a corporate, if I look at my colleague Chris Luxon\u2014is that you\u2019re dealing with a crisis and you\u2019d be saying, \u201CWhat\u2019s the legal advice? How do I get the skills in place?\u201D And making sure we\u2019ve got all the ducks in a row.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, when I look at the court ruling, it seems blatantly clear that to use a provision that was intended for a relatively small group of people to be able to receive access to a medicine\u2014to, effectively, provide for the authorisation of the vaccine\u2014surely somewhere in the bowels of Government, in dealing with the big-list public policy issue that our nation\u2019s faced at one of the biggest crises in our country\u2019s history, somebody asked the question: is the vaccine lawful and the process proper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I go back and would ask the question that has been asked both by David Seymour and Chris Bishop. It does need to be addressed by the Government. Did the Government Ministers ask the question of the officials as to whether the provisions in the Medicines Act\u2014that we\u2019re seeking to amend\u2014were adequate for a national roll-out of a vaccine as important as that for COVID?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002265957c4d30c047bb963ad2a73d8e5579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265957c4d30c047bb963ad2a73d8e5579\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I think you\u2019ve heard from the Attorney-General already today that Ministers learnt of this problem at the time of the court action, and our view is that the ministry obviously believed that it was acting legally and in accordance with earlier practice, and you can see that from the fact that going back to 2012, other pandemic vaccines have been approved in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00228ca3aee851d2435a897ee87456db75ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ca3aee851d2435a897ee87456db75ce\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I think it\u2019s a measure of the age of the legislation that, if one reads section 23, it\u2019s very masculine\u2014it talks about how the Minister may give \u201Chis\u201D provisional consent, and on giving his provisional consent the Minister may do lots of things. Well, we have a female, the Associate Minister of Health, who has that power, and I think the Medicines Act certainly does need updating, if for that reason alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut one of the other things that I think\u2014and we\u2019re not going to be able to do it in the time that requires us to make lawful the question that the High Court has determined, but I read with interest in the judgment that Pfizer were asked by the ministry, in addition to their provisional consent, to actually table a full consent under section 20 or 21. Now, that raises the perception, and clearly the authorities believed that a provisional consent wasn\u2019t sufficient to satisfy all of the questions that it had regarding\u2014certainly\u2014efficacy, because, of course, with the vaccine roll-out, one wouldn\u2019t know the efficacy of the vaccine until the end of the product. But it also talked in the court judgment that Pfizer were also asked to continue to provide other information, including that around safety. Now, this raises an interesting question of the degree to which the lifting of the limit on the number of people, the class of people that could benefit from a new medicine, is then going to mean that any vaccine may never get full consent under section 21, because we now know the seasonal influenza vaccine has probably been captured by the court judgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I want the Government, even if the Minister can\u2019t answer the question today, to consider the degree to which there may need to be a new process for vaccines and inoculations more generally, because the risk is that if there\u2019s a two-year window, the likelihood is that a new assay, a new type of vaccine, is going to be required, at least to be updated, and then new provisional consent needed. In fact, that\u2019s a question that I would have of seasonal influenza vaccines, because we\u2019re now gazetting them under, I think\u2014yes, H5N1 influenza vaccine is notified in the Gazette 2018-go576. So we\u2019ve now got the situation where we could be in this endless loop of provisional approvals for vaccines that are continually changing. At some point, I think it\u2019s either necessary to say that\u2013to confirm that\u2014or say that that requires a different process. It may be that, and I will go to the right clause\u2014ah yes, it is sections 20 and 21, that isn\u2019t appropriate for the vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I would encourage the Minister to think about whether or not theirs is necessary\u2014almost like a third way, a third pathway for the approval of medicines that for proven patent medicines, that for provisional experimental medicines, which section 23 was designed to cover, and then a third class now for the perpetual approval of things like influenza and COVID vaccines, because I think we\u2019re going to be doing this for years. And if the virus is going to act in the way that we think it is\u2014it\u2019s going to mutate, it\u2019s going to need a new vaccine, we\u2019re probably going to need booster injections in a couple of years\u2014I worry that if the authorities felt that it was necessary for Pfizer to do a full application on this, they now don\u2019t need to do that. Well, one could argue that by the time that\u2019s complete, a new provisional approval will be necessary for a new vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI hope I\u2019ve made myself clear on that; it\u2019s a bit jumbled in my thinking. But I do think there\u2019s some homework for the ministry and for Medsafe to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022db18ca212b39401fa8e6f8cb2dcd842e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db18ca212b39401fa8e6f8cb2dcd842e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, that is a really important point for us to keep in mind as we develop the therapeutic goods bill. I think, just to be clear, the two influenza vaccines in the Schedule are pandemic influenza vaccines. The H5N1 is a bird flu vaccine and the other is a generic influenza A pandemic vaccine that does allow for that and it is currently, I understand, agnostic as to which specific strain of influenza A it is, so it can be updated. To me, it seems like that is an appropriate use of the provisional consent, which, of course, is time-limited. But I take the member\u2019s points and concerns on board, and I\u2019ll certainly raise them as we do the policy development around the next Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022efcd2657790f4965b9b36aee75321183\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efcd2657790f4965b9b36aee75321183\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just reflecting on the point that was raised by the Hon Michael Woodhouse, I would ask the Minister to confirm my understanding, if I\u2019ve got it right, which comes from both the general policy statement and the explanatory note, which is that the effect of the amendment is, essentially, to remove the words from the current section 23 that the use has to be for \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D. This is made clear by considering the existing section 23(1), which says \u201CNotwithstanding sections 20 to 22 [of this Act], the Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, in accordance with this section, give his\u201D\u2014as the member has said\u2014\u201Cprovisional consent to the sale or supply or use of a new medicine where he is of the opinion that it is desirable that the medicine be sold, supplied, or used on a restricted basis for the treatment of a limited number of patients.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s replaced in this new bill by clause 4 of the bill, which replaces that section 23(1) with this subsection (1), which says, \u201CNotwithstanding sections 20 to 22, the Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, in accordance with this section, give provisional consent to the sale or supply or use of a new medicine if the Minister is of the opinion that it is desirable that the medicine be sold, supplied, or used.\u201D So other than making it gender-neutral language, the only change here is to remove the reference to \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D. That is the change, in effect, as I understand it, and that change is not just for the benefit of the listed consents that are being retrospectively validated; it also applies to other applications for provisional consents in the future, should they be made. Of course, that could all become overtaken eventually by the replacement in the therapeutic goods bill, but we don\u2019t need that in order to have a functioning mechanism in respect of provisional approvals for new vaccines or other medicines. That was a question to the Minister as to whether my understanding is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002256a3e8f88565492696c6c10521065760\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a3e8f88565492696c6c10521065760\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I can confirm that is my understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c754af7960a34fa59dba1f1488b584b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c754af7960a34fa59dba1f1488b584b7\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank both the Minister and Mr Parker for that observation, which I agree with absolutely as a prefacing comment, although I would add that it wasn\u2019t only the words on the treatment of \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D that\u2019s being deleted. It\u2019s sold, supplied, or used on a restricted basis, and so the legal framework was intended to restrict the dispensing of medicines under this section compared with those approved under sections 20 to 22. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think my central point remains that there is a risk that we get into a potentially perpetual cycle of approvals under section 23 if the vaccine changes to such a degree that a new application is warranted. Therefore, we may never\u2014that\u2019s a slightly far-reaching sort of conclusion\u2014actually approve a COVID vaccine under sections 20 to 22, and that was never the intention of this section. It\u2019s an unusual situation, I think, where because of the potential rapid mutation of a virus, the medicine itself changes to such a degree that it\u2019s no longer applicable to dispense it under the gazetting under section 23. I simply raise it as a policy question for the ministry, because it may well be that we need a third path of approvals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9acf41552994283a47457c2e648d37b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9acf41552994283a47457c2e648d37b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, I thought my colleague Andrew Bayly was seeking a call, but, in fact, he\u2019s skedaddling. So two questions following on from my previous remarks, and they relate to Part 1, or New Schedule 1AA, which amends Part 1 in relation to the validation. The first is, when the Cabinet was considering the roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccines, particularly the Pfizer vaccine in relation to the Cabinet papers, did those Cabinet papers identify any legal risk and was this prospect identified as a legal risk? And secondly, when did Cabinet first turn its mind to the possibility that the legislation that we\u2019re debating might be required?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdbab8c8046f4917844a2687eb81a845\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdbab8c8046f4917844a2687eb81a845\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to reinforce the importance of the Minister in the chair answering the essential question, because here is the part that has me dumbfounded: you would not need a law degree to say that when section 23(1) of the Medicines Act said it was to be used for \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D, and you were proposing to roll a vaccine out for 5 million New Zealanders, that you\u2019ve got a mistake, that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e981a3a0a734e7f8de77d4fcdc2ec07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! Order! Not me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681297e95e1c453990c4dc4ca7f0376b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; the Minister in the chair. It would not require a legal degree or a great deal of sense to realise that when section 23(1) requires that it may be used for \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D, and the Government was intending for a vaccine roll-out in the biggest public health crisis in a century, aiming it for 5 million people was never going to pass the legal test of a limited number of patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo the question that my colleague Chris Bishop asks is a question the Government must ask because it goes to the core of the competency. I want to remind the committee that we are overruling a court decision. We\u2019re applying this law retrospectively. It is an issue that goes to the heart of the biggest issue that New Zealand has faced in many years: that there is a high expectation of a level of competency within Government. So we do require an answer to: how was it possible for a Government to be so incompetent to believe that it could approve a vaccine when the provision on which it was approving it explicitly said that it could only be used for \u201Ca limited number of patients\u201D? That question needs to be answered by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff558de79ddc4c619518f8ecdcc3e6f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff558de79ddc4c619518f8ecdcc3e6f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the member Chris Bishop\u2019s first question, the answer is no, and to the second question, the answer is: last week. I think the last member to speak, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, asked a number of rhetorical questions about how this is possible. Well, the answer must be the same for this Government as it was for the Government in 2012 that approved two similar pandemic vaccines\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299ab635c13d849ab84b5166c85985c6e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We weren\u2019t rolling out a nationwide vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f695131bc5b145b994e19f38c0f854d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why did you approve something you didn\u2019t think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52f9ef292c44bc9b97db09919c0efe5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister will not bring the Chairperson into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022679eb40ce48a4d07aa7bdebf11a092c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Chair. So this has been the practice in this area for some time\u2014that conditional approvals have been not considered to be restricted with respect to people\u2014and our legislation today updates the Act in order to make it reflect practice, and international best practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00223ffacbd5623e4a8ca82ba44528c12f2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ffacbd5623e4a8ca82ba44528c12f2c\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E So summarising all of that from the last half an hour, 40 minutes or so, plus the second reading, is it reasonable to say the following: the Government was never told that there was a chance of a legal problem about the roll-out, the Cabinet papers did not identify any legal risk in relation to the roll-out, no one in the Government asked for advice about any legal risk to the roll-out, and that the first time the Government started to consider legislation to respond to any negative court ruling was last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00228110ac5d86f14fc3b32866519dc25755\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228110ac5d86f14fc3b32866519dc25755\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I think the member has my answer about when consideration of this matter was initiated by Cabinet, which was in response to the court ruling. And no, I disagree. I think legal risk has been considered throughout the vaccine roll-out overall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002226688bbe549f433cbb6aa14c87c118ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226688bbe549f433cbb6aa14c87c118ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to question further. The Minister has said that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3066b8cb1c14f9c97901a774e7b0de7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I call Dr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8fe5722bcd3408ba319c480c504d597\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s answer actually requires further explanation. Earlier in the committee stage, the Minister indicated the Government knew that the Medicines Act was outdated. In fact, the Minister has said that the Government\u2019s work programme was concerned that the Medicines Act was outdated. Now, the Minister has just said legal risks were assessed. Well, I\u2019m sorry, the Minister has to give some explanation as to why, if legal risks were assessed and section 23 said that the vaccine could be used for only a limited number of patients, when the Government\u2019s intent was to roll the vaccine out for 5 million New Zealanders\u2014how could the legal risks have been assessed, when a person without any legal qualifications could see the mismatch between the law and the Government\u2019s intention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002247f5fcc2891b4937bffa89e5d1112732\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247f5fcc2891b4937bffa89e5d1112732\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve mentioned, the ministry obviously believed it was acting legally and in accordance with practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022daca618c22674f6eab77e0fd9efeac0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daca618c22674f6eab77e0fd9efeac0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Parts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226a31ab7dbe7044dda1054d02c1f6e827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a31ab7dbe7044dda1054d02c1f6e827\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Medicines Amendment Bill and I report the bill without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e16285c2d0264c7abf2c4b0127199896\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022325480914b474db5b24d092a2e489fdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022325480914b474db5b24d092a2e489fdb\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I move, That the Medicines Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbad6c9e82f94c61a76b1d793a689659\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f325ebe7d6ab4108a233786ae1cafc79\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd4d73a558554e63a7a3533c57fab281\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd4d73a558554e63a7a3533c57fab281\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Overseas Investment Bill (No 3).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2a732303044e3b9d66b5ae45258d53\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f7f1f3110c4d06b9960e50fdd88d5c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe last year has certainly been one for the history books. While our economy has proven resilient, unemployment is not nearly as bad as what was initially predictive, and we\u2019ve collectively weathered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c04bd475b570491193b20f2160f6f414\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Budget day tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacf0f1afb9745c499591f17b76b8c87\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014COVID-19\u2014beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692b9f2ab4994bdfa69ea3c4ca21add4\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like the Budget speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228951cd4828b43389dd013738edb4ec0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201Cit sounds like a Budget speech\u201D\u2014no, it\u2019s not actually; it\u2019s about the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), but thanks for making me a bit more interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is considerable long-term uncertainty about how COVID-19 will affect global and New Zealand economies. That remains. What is clear is that, as with New Zealand over the last couple of hundred years, productive foreign investment will continue to be important for our economy. It is also true that we need a screening regime to protect New Zealand so that whilst we get the capital we need, we manage the risks that foreign investment can pose, including investment by third parties and media companies and, at times, other sensitive land asset classes that have long been screened under the New Zealand screening regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ERecognising this, the Government has, over the last few years, made some quite significant changes to the Overseas Investment Act. In 2018, I think those were probably the most significant changes because if those changes hadn\u2019t been made in 2018, they couldn\u2019t have been made after the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) came into effect. Those changes made sure that our screening regime could, in the future, under any Government, screen, either strictly or lightly, investments in residential land and in forest registration rights under the Forest Rights Registrations Act, which is an alternative way that forest investors can invest rather than buying freehold or leasehold property rights. Previously, there were no screening provisions covering those classes of assets, and if those changes had not been made at that time, no Government would have, in effect, been able to make those changes in the future, because it would have been in breach not just of CPTPP but in respect of earlier agreements that obtained the benefit of those provisions through the most favoured nation clause relating to investment protocols and early agreements, including the China free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo in 2020, the next changes were made. These were in response to the most uncertain economic and health conditions facing this country in nearly a century. At that time, we introduced a national interest test and a temporary emergency notification regime to ensure that investments were able to be screened. Again, at the time we did that, we thought things were going to be a lot worse than they\u2019ve turned out\u2014although in some sectors that have been heavily hit, it has been very, very hard for them, including in the tourism sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut simultaneously with that, we put a longer-term bill into select committee, and today, with the support of the National Party and the Green Party, we deliver on that bill, which is the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). I\u2019m pleased that it has had such broad support, because I think it really shows that we are delivering a stable and enduring overseas investment regime that balances the need to manage risk against cutting unnecessary red tape, and that, of course, sets New Zealand up well for the future. I\u2019m going to cover some of the main steps of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHow do we cut red tape? Well, the bill ensures that up to 30 percent fewer transactions will need to be reviewed, and when those that are remaining to be reviewed are reviewed, the screening process will be simpler, because some of the unnecessary provisions that weren\u2019t really necessary to protect New Zealand\u2019s interests are being stripped out. For example, rather than requiring consent for small incremental investments in a listed company\u2014or an unlisted company, for that matter\u2014the bill is targeted at those transactions that grant an investor greater effective control over our most sensitive or larger assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe are also no longer to screen a range of short-term leases of land or land that is subject to the current regime only because it sits next to land that we hold additional concern for. For example, under the existing law, until this bill is passed and comes into effect, if someone buys a commercial property that is adjacent to a reserve\u2014and it could just be an industrial site in Auckland\u2014the fact that it sits next to an arm of an estuary deems it to be sensitive land and it is screened as investment land, even though we don\u2019t really have a worry if that particular warehouse passes\u2014which is often the case\u2014into the ownership of somebody else. So we are not going to screen those sorts of things in the future. Neither are we going to screen investments by what are fundamentally New Zealand companies, even if they are more than 25 percent overseas-owned\u2014we are not going to catch those in the same way as they are currently caught by the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFor the transactions that are left, we made another number of changes to prove the way\u2014for example, repeat investors that have already demonstrated that they are fit and proper people; they are not going to have to re-satisfy the fit and proper person tests every time they invest. I was pleased to hear that we are getting the near-unanimous support of the House for most of these changes, recognising that overseas investment has supported New Zealanders\u2019 wellbeing for generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have also improved the benefit to New Zealand test, which is, again, a mechanism for reviewing investments in land. We have simplified and clarified the test requirements whilst maintaining the test focus on the investment\u2019s benefits consistent with the outcome of a High Court case last year and recognising the important role that the broader regulatory system plays in ensuring investment is not harmful, such as the Resource Management Act. I\u2019ve been resistant to calls from some people who say that we should have a bigger environmental test sitting in the Overseas Investment Act, when, in actual fact, we need decent environmental rules applying to everyone, whether they are overseas investors or New Zealanders, and those tests arrived under the Resource Management Act and don\u2019t need to sit in the Overseas Investment Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill also delivers improvements to provisions passed in last year\u2019s Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Act. This filled some critical gaps in our regime to ensure that some of our most sensitive assets can be protected. There is a national interest test now that carries forward for ever strategically important assets like ports and airports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFor some of the infrastructure that has monopoly characteristics that is really important to the functioning of the wider economy, we think it is right that the Government be able to have a look at those investments and think, whether in a time of global financial crisis or something, it is better that those assets sit in the ownership of New Zealander owners aligned to the fortunes of the New Zealand economy, rather than owned by overseas people who might prefer the capital investment needs of their assets and other countries\u2019 in their home country rather than New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAlso, there are sometimes monopoly issues that will always be present. I have a view that sometimes monopoly assets are best kept in the ownership of New Zealand investors, because, using monopoly theory, there will always be some level of monopoly rent extracted and why would you want to export that overseas if you\u2019re not capital constrained in your own country? In any event, they are now subject to rigorous review and can only proceed if the investment isn\u2019t in our national interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI also note that investments in media companies are now included within the purview of some of the new tests that are being introduced in the Act, and, again, I think that is necessary. I think countries should be able to control foreign ownership in media companies\u2014they won\u2019t always want to but sometimes they will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis review was really aided by submitters and the good work that the Finance and Expenditure Committee made. I thought they made some really good contributions, particularly in respect of farmland. This legislation does put into primary legislation the controls that we have on overseas investment in farmland, land of more than 5 hectares. I think that\u2019s good to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve sorted out a very, very confused set of regulations, which this legislation replaces. Those regulations have competing tests, which, really, you can\u2019t sort out rationally, because they head in different directions and how successive Governments have managed the somewhat confused nature of those regulations is by way of a directive letter from the Minister of the day to the Overseas Investment Office. Those letters have changed from Government to Government, which has made for regulatory uncertainty. And, as well as that, in respect of such an important issue, it is not right that that can be changed by way of ministerial fiat, and that sort of important provision should sit in primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve elevated into the primary legislation a better set of principles, and if any other party wants to stand on a platform that says we should sell our farmland to overseas buyers, they are going to have to stand on that and convince New Zealanders to vote for that as a proposition. So those provisions are now codified and made more rational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI was surprised to learn that, until now, the advertisement that you had to give to the public before you could sell overseas could be given after you entered the contract to sell, which was nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee34129f58434a5f8dcf6d2760db8612\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022e337f62718be42f895c3c6ccdd2d48b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e337f62718be42f895c3c6ccdd2d48b8\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E What an exciting speech from the Minister on this issue of overseas investment. It\u2019s a pleasure to be talking on this. National will be supporting this bill, and we\u2019ve made that position clear throughout, although I would say there are certain aspects of the bill that we still have concerns with, and I\u2019ll deal with that in a few minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worthwhile just reminding ourselves that this bill is seeking to change the urgent changes that were brought about as a result of COVID, and there were a whole lot of changes that were made that basically granted the Minister, and the Minister\u2019s just spoken, very Draconian and wide-ranging powers to basically limit any overseas investment into New Zealand on the premise that as a result of COVID we were going to have lots and lots of New Zealand companies that would fail. We\u2019d have all these international buyers coming in, swooping up and buying them for a dollar when they had previously been worth a lot of money. At that point, when the legislation was passed under urgency by the Government, we had significant concerns with that and certainly had a view that they should be only very temporary of nature. This bill is about getting back to normality and trying to put in place some provisions and conditions that have longevity around them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the issue around this piece of legislation\u2014and the Minister has done a pretty good job of sort of going through it, but there\u2019s sort of three key issues. The first one is around the issue of sensitive land and how that\u2019s dealt with, and I\u2019ll pick up on that in a moment. The second one is around a transaction involving so-called foreign entities. And the issue we\u2019ve got, if we think about a company like Fletcher Challenge, which grew up and was owned and was established in New Zealand, is because it\u2019s listed overseas in the Australian market, it is technically under the current rules deemed to be a foreign entity. Because it\u2019s more than 25 percent owned by foreigners and because it\u2019s a listed company, that\u2019s what happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe rules change under this bill to have a couple of tests around that. One is if one person, one foreigner, has the ability to control more than 50 percent of the people that are put on the board or governance arrangements, then that person and that company is now deemed a foreigner. So it gives a bit of latitude from that perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other one is whether there\u2019s more than 10 percent of a company\u2019s securities who\u2014means that they control, again, the 50 percent test, but actually means that what it does is gives flexibilities for those listed companies to actually be able to operate without being deemed foreigners. And from that perspective, I think we\u2019ve got quite a good sort of basis in terms of determining what is foreign ownership going forward from now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third element relates to leases. Previously, leases were captured. What the bill sets out is if the lease is less than 10 years\u2019 duration, it\u2019s actually not captured now, under the bill. That\u2019s a good thing, because if you think about the viticulture industry, leasing of land by wine companies\u2014often they will be deemed to be foreigners. They are leasing the land, so they\u2019re not buying it, obviously. If they have a lease for less than 10 years, it means that they can continue and it\u2019s sort of the current way that they operate in New Zealand without being subject to undue scrutiny, and I think that\u2019s a pretty good aspect to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe issue around the assessment of transactions\u2014the bill introduces a couple of provisions. The first one is around this test around whether, in fact, the land is sensitive, and the Minister alluded to that. There\u2019s now very clear rules set out in the table around whether, if you buy a business or even if you buy a very small plot of land, it\u2019s deemed to be sensitive because of being a neighbouring or contiguous with another piece of land, such as a marine area or even a coastal area or a river or whatever it might be. That, under the previous rules, would have been deemed subject to overseas investment. So that sort of clarifies that quite significantly, and I think that\u2019s a pretty good aspect to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other aspect is the definition of, if you\u2019re going to go through and assess a transaction, whether in fact\u2014under current rules, we used to have what was called the counterfactual\u2014if a foreigner bought it, would that foreigner do even more than a New Zealand investor? And the test, the counterfactual, was that they had to do more in terms of either growing the business or employing more people, or bringing further environmental impacts. The test now is a little bit simpler, and it\u2019s a before and after test. Related to this is the issue around advertising, which means that this transaction will need to be subject to some form of advertising. That is the test to make sure that the New Zealand interests or New Zealand component of that test is actually properly understood and quantified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other aspect to it is a proportional approach. So if the land is of a really sensitive nature because of the scale of it, then the proportionate approach is, in terms of the decision making, the benefits will need to be proportionately higher if it is to pass and be approved. And I think, again, that\u2019s a pretty good approach to dealing with the issue of certainly sensitive land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think some of the other areas that we talked about in the committee, and I think it\u2019s been quite useful discussion, is the one around investment by sovereign wealth funds. At the moment, we have a lot of foreign sovereign wealth funds. These are entities that professional habitual investors\u2014they may come in and buy shares, those types of things on the New Zealand Stock Exchange. They do not necessarily automatically need to be now subject to a national interest test. There may be occasions when they should be, if the ownership or control of those sovereign funds is unclear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other aspect is a call-in power, which the Minister now has. This is when the asset or transaction involves something that is strategically important to New Zealand. So this is an issue that\u2019s pretty important in terms of how it\u2019s exercised by the Minister. The Minister spoke before about ports and airports and other such assets. The call-in power is quite a significant issue and power and needs to be exercised judiciously, and we are hopeful that we\u2019ve got the right balance in the legislation for that to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the big issue that we\u2019re unhappy about in this bill is that the issue of land which is subject to forestry cutting rights or could be acquired for forestry rights\u2014we are concerned that this is the only major issue that was not dealt with in this bill. So just to give backdrop to this, forestry land or forests in New Zealand are currently owned in excess of 70 percent by foreigners. So that means that less than 20 percent, or less than 30 percent actually, is owned by domestic owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat level of foreign ownership of our forests is something that we should be concerned about. Under the direction of the former Government, a very special dispensation was made, led by Winston Peters, to make sure that foreign companies could come in and buy up to 999 hectares, provided it was going to be used for forestry use or forestry cutting rights. We were very concerned about this at the time. We thought that to have a 5 hectare limit for farmland but a 999 hectare right for foreigners buying forests was disproportionate and actually an unwelcome arrangement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis is one of the issues that we think this bill does not adequately address. We put up a Supplementary Order Paper yesterday to try and deal with this issue, because we want to make sure that we do not allow foreigners to come and buy our forestry assets without sufficient scrutiny. That\u2019s not to say that they shouldn\u2019t be buying them, but they should be subject to the same amount of scrutiny that other land acquisitions are under. We\u2019re disappointed that that\u2019s not in the bill, but it\u2019s recognised that the bill is going to be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to finish off by thanking all of the officials for the help during the course of working through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f93d29d46d9f46de80e7a105ca0cad9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f93d29d46d9f46de80e7a105ca0cad9a\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand on this third reading of this bill, on the overseas investment regime. It\u2019s good to see that we\u2019ve got pretty much consensus around the House on what is an important piece of legislation seeking to protect New Zealand\u2019s interests. The position of the National Party in respect of the forests is noted, and it was raised at committee\u2014I want to absolutely recognise that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut I want to step back a moment, if I may, and just look at the underlying philosophy of this, and I think when we do that we\u2019ll see why the suggestions of the National Party weren\u2019t adopted, because I think this is not about creating some kind of fortress New Zealand\u2014quite the opposite in fact. This bill, in particular, is looking at fine tuning. You know, we\u2019re on the third Act, and there\u2019s reasons why we\u2019ve got three of them, but fine tuning our overseas investment regime to make good investment easier and to make it harder\u2014to make the system more sensitive, to pick up important situations which require far more scrutiny around what is sensitive and what is strategic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf we look\u2014as Mr Bayly rightly notes, I don\u2019t know the numbers, he perhaps does, but large amounts of our forests are owned, cutting rights and the like are owned, by overseas investors. And that seems to be working. This isn\u2019t a situation where we see some skewing of the market or the loss of a critical strategic asset of New Zealand, rather\u2014whilst I do absolutely recognise recent supply chain issues with timber and the like, by and large our timber and forestry industry appears to be working well and foreign investment in it does not seem to be problematic in any way. Having said that\u2014and we heard Mr Parker, I think it was only yesterday, say that keeping this area of the law in shape is important\u2014it\u2019s not out of the question that at some future date that may be revisited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut the real point here is that this is a piece of legislation which says we want to attract high quality investment and not just the capital, because capital is only one part of the picture, but investors who bring particular expertise. We heard about the benefit to New Zealand test and essentially the abandonment of the counterfactual test, because the counterfactual\u2014and it pops up in various areas of the law, including competition law, but it\u2019s always a bit fraught, because it\u2019s a \u201CWhat might happen if we allow it and what might happen if we don\u2019t.\u201D And so your counterfactual is, by definition, hypothetical. So it is a bit of crystal ball gazing, whereas you\u2019ve got a much more concrete test now\u2014the before and after test\u2014which asks the question, \u201CWhat is the status quo?\u201D and then asks the next question, \u201CHow will the status quo be improved if we allow this overseas investment?\u201D You have to show, ultimately, a benefit to New Zealand to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI guess the real point here is that when we\u2019re doing that, when we\u2019re asking what the triggers are for this, we want to have a proportionate approach. One of the big complaints to date, and I want to say it\u2019s a legitimate one, is that people who are looking to invest in New Zealand had a regulatory burden that was too high. So while we\u2019re not burning the regulations, we\u2019re absolutely seeking to make them a lot more workable in terms of having things like standing consents. We want a proportionate framework. So in this before and after test, which is much more workable as part of it, and also a framework where you won\u2019t have to, every time, go through the entire process of ascertaining the credentials of the investor and the nature of the investment and so on and so forth. So we see that as a really important part of it. The before and after test will now simply ask the question, \u201CWhat is it now? How will it be improved later?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want to touch on the other aspect of the benefit to New Zealand test, which was very much robustly discussed in committee\u2014and I want to recognise the Greens for raising this\u2014the question of whether you simply ask what\u2019s the benefit, what are the pluses that we can see, and what are the direct economic costs, or whether you have a much more open enquiry and ask what are the wider detractors for New Zealand. As you\u2019d expect from the Greens, quite rightly, they identified the bringing into account of environmental issues. Now, I guess the point to be made here is that, whenever we\u2019re looking at any activity within New Zealand, any, for example, use of land, any activity on conservation land, any of those kinds of things: there is a thoroughgoing regime. And any person who is making an application\u2014whether it be to run a tour through Milford Sound or mine in Waih\u012B, they have to go through a rigorous and robust process. That\u2019s a process which occurs after approval has been given. So there\u2019s two quite separate questions. One is \u201CIs there a benefit to New Zealand?\u201D; the second inquiry\u2014still an important inquiry, absolutely, but it\u2019s not one you should have to do twice, you should only have to do it once\u2014do the benefit to New Zealand enquiry for overseas investment, first, do the environmental enquiry or whatever other enquiry is important, do that one next. They\u2019re still there, and it\u2019s not appropriate to conflate those and, essentially, have a resource management hearing in an overseas investment context. So that was really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI guess the other thing that cropped up in there was relatively straightforward, but the idea that investments go up and down. There are some situations where that\u2019s not problematic, and we know that, by dint of company law, there are some thresholds that are important. The 25 percent threshold is important, the 50 percent threshold\u2014where effective control exists, the 75 percent threshold, and of course total control at the other end. Within those boundaries, creeping or shifting, creeping sounds nefarious, it\u2019s not nefarious, but shifting shareholdings or ownership interests on something like\u2014we mentioned, the Fletcher group of companies, which is an overseas company, although has strong New Zealand roots, it\u2019s not invidious at all. So we don\u2019t need\u2014simply, if there\u2019s an additional 5 percent being purchased, for example, it doesn\u2019t cross a threshold. We don\u2019t need a special Overseas Investment Act inquiry into that. So I thought that was sensible and a good tidy up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, around farmland\u2014I think the tightening up around farmland was really good. Minister Parker just identified the bizarre situation where you could enter into a contract for the sale of farmland and then advertise later. Now, that is truly strange. I think the point there being farmland is important to New Zealanders, both economically and culturally. And if farmland is there on the market, it should absolutely and genuinely be put on the New Zealand market so that a New Zealand person can buy that. So that\u2019s a really good idea. Of course, along with that, things like leases for less than 10 years, the committee had a really good discussion around that and, you know, to be fair, we had people coming in arguing that it should be 35 years\u2014which is the extent of the longest consent you\u2019ll get under the Resource Management Act\u2014and various other articulations, depending on the particular interest held. But, at the end of the day, I think 10 years is a pretty long period of time. You can get a good economic return on your land in 10 years, but it doesn\u2019t kind of creep to that point where it approaches a much more significant holding, almost approaching a freehold ownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, we did some other tidy ups, and one that I thought was important was fees and levies. There are fees and levies charged, as you would expect. There was a change so that the levies could look backwards and forwards up to four years, and I was concerned that that looked kind of like revenue gathering. It was a really good inquiry around the framework and whether it was appropriate to kind of have overs and unders over a long period of time\u2014for fees and levies. Sounds technical, but nevertheless important. I was assured, and I take that assurance from officials, that this was really only a cost recovery framework, but smoothing out some of the longer-term projects that they have. So look, I guess, on closing, that shows that it was a technical bill, but a really important one. I\u2019m very happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13d646a656f45958dff1cd56dbc2d68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13d646a656f45958dff1cd56dbc2d68\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E National supports this bill. It\u2019s one of those bills that we support with a clear understanding that it\u2019s far from perfect, that the Act that remains could also be better, but that this is a step forward and an improvement on the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFrom a principled basis, the National Party supports foreign investment that creates productive, sustainable economic growth. We believe that foreign investment can lead to increased jobs and increased innovation and can help generate wealth for New Zealanders. We think it\u2019s important that the law around foreign investment strikes a balance between screening for risk and ensuring that any investment accrues benefit to New Zealanders while also ensuring that in setting out that law and setting out those requirements, we don\u2019t create such an intolerable compliance burden that New Zealand essentially becomes a closed shop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOf course, the reality is we are living in a hyper-competitive world where capital has many places it can go. We are an economy that is constrained by capital, and there have been many reports written on the impact this has on our productivity levels and on the opportunities we have for innovation and growth. So it is important in that context that we remain a place where the world\u2019s capital wants to come to invest in projects that can drive better opportunities for New Zealand and can drive innovation and job creation. We have to get the balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis bill is a step forward in that it does reduce the regulatory burden around some types of foreign investment. Some of these changes are small and specific but very important to the people who interact with this regime. I want to acknowledge in this speech the select committee process and those who submitted to us about their experience of interacting with this piece of legislation and the practical effects it has. Our select committee heard from a broad range of submitters; everyone from Federated Farmers through to Woolworths, through to people involved in property investment\u2014all sorts of people talking about what the regime has meant for them in practice. There were stories of significant delays, months of process, and huge legal fees, and so any steps that we can take that reduce that regulatory burden so that money actually goes into the right things are steps forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAn example of that is removing the screening requirement for non-residential leases. Another example of that is streamlining the consent process for subsequent investment for overseas investors who\u2019ve previously been screened. So they\u2019ve already gone through the whole process of being analysed, being looked at, and they don\u2019t need to be taken through all of that again. This bill is a step forward in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is also a bill that, I think, benefited from the select committee process, because issues were drawn out that are reflected in this final piece of legislation. In particular, I want to draw attention to this issue around productive farmland, because what we had discussions about at the committee was the fact that sometimes land that is zoned as rural land or land that is zoned as potentially productive or farming land is actually land on the outskirts of a city or a town that is much more likely to be used for commercial or residential development. As National\u2019s spokesperson on housing, this is an issue that is close to my heart. It is certainly my view that there is a lot more land that in the future needs to be able to be made into housing. So it is good that this bill gives the Minister the ability not to use stricter approval criteria if farmland is likely to be used for residential development. That is an important improvement, an important piece of discretion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMembers throughout the debate on this bill have pointed out that we still have an Overseas Investment Act regime that doesn\u2019t create a level playing field, and I do want to focus on that. In a world where we allow foreign investment but we do so subject to quite strict caveats, we need to be very careful that we\u2019re not incentivising one form of investment over another to the detriment of our communities, because that is, in fact, a situation that will lead to perverse outcomes, and, as it stands, our Overseas Investment Act does tilt the playing field. It makes it much easier for overseas investors to purchase sensitive farmland if they\u2019re going to convert that land into forestry. So what we are seeing around the country is that while foreign investors may have difficulty buying productive farmland for the purposes of keeping that land as a productive farm, they have very little difficultly in purchasing land that has been productive farmland for generations and converting into forestry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe in the National Party have no problem with forestry\u2014forestry can be a good thing\u2014but we do have a problem with a regime that favours forestry conversion over other forms of investment, because this is having a perverse impact throughout our rural communities. We are seeing that the economic and social characteristics of many parts of New Zealand are changing very quickly. There has been an immediate response to this Government\u2019s decision to tilt the playing field toward forestry in that screeds and hectares of land are being bought up for conversion into forestry, and that has meaning for communities. There are few jobs because forestry doesn\u2019t require as much labour and manpower and womanpower on a day-to-day basis, and in some communities it\u2019s also having pretty significant environmental effect. These are very human stories. These are people who no longer are able to have enough kids at the local school, because what have always been productive farms are bare pine forests. People no longer have enough people for the rugby team. It\u2019s the changing face of rural communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOf course, our rural communities have changed and have been resilient and have withstood a lot of change, but that is only change that is for the positive if we can see that it\u2019s actually happening on a level playing field. Our current regime does not allow that. It incentivises foreign investors towards one form of investment, and we, the National Party, have raised our concerns about that. We have noted that while this bill is a step forward, there is every opportunity for Labour members opposite to amend the Act further to remedy this imbalance. It\u2019s an imbalance that was born out of a coalition agreement with the New Zealand First Party, and it\u2019s my understanding that even the Green Party oppose it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo we have one set of defenders of this unbalanced playing field, and that is the Labour Party. I want to take this opportunity to say to those in the rural communities across New Zealand who have spoken to me and my colleagues about this issue, that National has their back. We understand how important this is. We understand how urgent this is. We understand the changing face of your communities, and it is abundantly obvious to us that while the Labour Party has time to make pages and pages of changes to the Overseas Investment Act, it has chosen not to take this opportunity to remedy the major challenge for our rural communities right now. If those people in those communities want to know who has their back, it is National, and we will continue to advocate on that issue. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00224503733593b3411680dcc18befa4f7f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224503733593b3411680dcc18befa4f7f9\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Fa\u2018afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to be finally at the third reading of this bill, a bill that aims to improve the efficiency of the Overseas Investment Act and regime while ensuring that New Zealand still remains open for business and to protect our assets, especially our farmland. The bill is a culmination of the Government\u2019s work to reform New Zealand\u2019s overseas investment regime and to ensure that we can continue to attract productive overseas investment that\u2019s sustainable and inclusive while also protecting our taonga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAs the Minister outlined earlier, these changes have been in train since 2018. The first Ardern Government made some key changes to the Overseas Investment Act to address the concerns of Kiwis that too many of our homes were being sold to overseas investors and the protection of our forestry rights. With the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) agreement on its way through, the Government at the time realised we had to be able to futureproof, to have the ability to screen so we could protect our assets. Previously, there were no restrictions on these assets, and if we had not made this change, there was no way we would be able to protect them once the CPTPP came through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EA big part of this work is that the Minister, in his second reading, referred to the ability to protect our assets when COVID hit our shores last year, in 2020. Although we are in a better position than we initially thought back in 2020, I can recall, very early in January last year, that the first piece of regulation as a Government official that we had to deal with was the fisheries quota\u2014rock lobster quota. Normally, every year, our rock lobster industry has to send rock lobster over to China for the Chinese New Year, and at the time, because COVID had hit China, fisheries officials were incredibly concerned about the impact on businesses if those orders ran dry, because that\u2019s exactly what was happening. Chinese New Year celebrations were being cancelled in China; so our rock lobster industry sought the assistance of the Government to be able to put in regulations to not have to catch the particular rock lobster or, for those that they could catch, be able to carry over that quota. They were really concerned at the insolvency that may come from the stopping of the sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, again, although we are in a better position, at the time Government officials moved really quickly, and the Government supported the advice that was coming through. So we had to act; hence the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill, now the Act. The Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Act gave the Government the backstop tools needed to manage significant foreign investments, because the concern was that businesses, to stop themselves getting into insolvency, would sell their assets or sell their businesses to overseas investors. So we introduced a national interest test and a temporary call-in power to ensure that investments in our most sensitive assets, including our critical national infrastructure, were protected. But we needed to look ahead to the future, and we were conscious that, once we came through the worst, we needed to be able to balance making it easier for foreign investors to be attracted to come to New Zealand, to want to invest in New Zealand, but also have those protective measures to look after our special assets. So this bill builds on those changes made in 2020 urgent measures Act, and makes the most significant cuts to red tape since our rules were introduced in 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThis bill will reduce the number of transactions that require consents by around 30 percent. It\u2019s a real balance for the Government to be able, again, to attract that overseas investment while protecting our taonga. Key changes include no longer screening investments in certain pieces of land simply because they sit next to each other. These were a number of issues that we dealt with during the select committee process, and again I\u2019d like to thank the submitters who came and submitted on the bill. The changes included no longer screening very short-term leases and approved investors that are making small increases in an existing holding. So, again, it was a balance between compliance costs as well as ensuring that we have attractive investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe bill also simplifies the approval process for most transactions to ensure that limited resources are dedicated to reviewing transactions that are most likely to pose risks, such as critical infrastructure, as I\u2019ve spoken to again. The Minister referred to it as that investors of proven good character would be able to access a fast-tracked approval, and the test for acquiring land will be simplified, reducing the number of considerations from 21 to seven and making the threshold for consents clearer. The national interest test will also be better targeted, no longer automatically applying to investments by State-linked pension funds, similar in nature to the New Zealand Super Fund, that operate at arms\u2019 length from the Government. And, as I mentioned in the previous reading, part of the call-in powers was to make sure that there were particular exemptions that were available through the bill, and again the select committee made those changes in order for us to get to a better balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe bill complements the further changes to the urgent measures Act because it makes sure that the changes do not serve as a barrier needed for development such as housing on less productive land, giving the Minister the flexibility to not apply the higher threshold in such circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIf I can go back to embedding a higher threshold for farmland, which the Minister touched on briefly. While the Minister said it\u2019s critical that we do everything we can to attract valuable investment, this cannot come at the expense, again, of protecting our taonga and our values. This is why the bill maximises New Zealand\u2019s chances to be able to protect farmland in two ways, as the Minister touched on. First, it codifies that foreign investors cannot acquire farmland unless they bring substantial benefits, such as new technologies or jobs to New Zealand, again, balancing the need for attracting productive investment as well as protecting our taonga. Secondly, the bill ensures that New Zealanders have a genuine opportunity to purchase farmland by requiring it to be publicly advertised before an overseas person can buy it. I remember during the select committee we had a really good discussion around advertising, and it was something that we didn\u2019t want to be just a tick-box exercise; we wanted it to be genuine advertising, on various platforms. I remember having that conversation with officials, saying, \u201CWell, is an ad in the paper sufficient for advertising?\u201D And we came to agreement that, no, it wasn\u2019t; there had to be some genuine advertising, a genuine trying to attract Kiwis to be able to invest into this land. And if it didn\u2019t, then we were OK; we would go through the process with the Overseas Investment Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI think the Minister ran out of time to be able to thank officials in his speech. I want to pick that up, having been a Government official who worked in the last term, going through the changes that we did for COVID. The Minister and the select committee would like to thank the staff of Treasury, would like to thank the staff on the overseas investment bill, who not only worked really long hours last year to get that urgent measures Act through but also, as soon as that Act was through, had to start working on this particular bill. This bill was only made possible because of their work and their long hours. Again, to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, we were absolutely well served by those officials, and we cannot take that for granted, particularly in this time when, having gone through a whole year of policy development, that they continued on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, again, I go back to the main point of this bill. This bill is about improving the efficiency of the overseas investment regime while ensuring New Zealand assets are protected, that our taonga are protected. This is a culmination of our Government\u2019s work to reform New Zealand\u2019s overseas investment regime and to ensure, again, that we can attract productive, sustainable, and inclusive investment that we need to boost economic growth and protect our taonga at the same time. I\u2019m proud to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022eba92979cded41158847a5e6cd4de97f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eba92979cded41158847a5e6cd4de97f\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on behalf of the Green Party on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). Can I start by taking issue with some of the comments by Nicola Grigg\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467151c233c14123a8e61b46fe18a181\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221646a2884f364b339a411abda6d647a3\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Willis, sorry; thank you, Mr Seymour: Nicola Willis\u2014in terms of the fact that the National Party supposedly is very supportive and has the back of the rural community. One of the first things that the Government did in the last term was amend the ministerial directive to the Overseas Investment Office in relation to rural land. Under the former National Government, the provisions in the overseas investment legislation around a requirement for screening and consent for rural land above 5 hectares had so many loopholes that you could drive a truck through them. One of the key loopholes was that the ministerial directive by the former National Government was that the substantial and identifiable benefit test only applied to large farms, which could be several times larger than a standard dairy farm. The previous Government sent a directive to the office for the overseas investment changing that. What this bill does is embeds those provisions around rural land in the legislation so it\u2019s not just relying on a ministerial letter, and it means that any future Government will need to come back to this House, rather than the Minister of Finance simply changing a letter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs other speakers have noted, one of the other key changes in the legislation is around the counterfactual test. That counterfactual test arose from the courts in the Crafar cases. It was built, really, on the analytical framework that the Commerce Commission use when assessing anti-competitive behaviour. A counterfactual test is quite hypothetical, because the decision makers under the Overseas Investment Act had to consider what would be the benefits to New Zealand of the status quo and what would occur with the investment and without the investment. It got to be quite hypothetical and somewhat divorced from reality. This bill, in simplifying the test to what it will be before the potential overseas investment and what it would be after the proposed overseas investment is actually a clearer framework and a clearer criteria for Ministers and the Overseas Investment Office to make decisions on applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo that is a significant improvement, as is, rather than having over 20 factors to determine whether there is a benefit to New Zealand, shrinking those down and making them much clearer. We can have overseas investment in Aotearoa New Zealand if it provides a substantial benefit to New Zealand; if it creates new, productive assets; if there aren\u2019t significant impacts; if there is significant participation by New Zealanders; and if there is a significant increase in added-value processing. So it\u2019s those sorts of issues that then are front of mind, and that\u2019s one of the reasons that the Green Party is supporting the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also supporting the bill because there have been changes around where an overseas investor is applying to take water for water bottling or extract significant quantities of water, where, in that instance, because of the public concern about this issue, there has to be an assessment of sustainability. Other speakers might say that those issues are normally dealt with under the Resource Management Act, but, in terms of water, it is a common asset; there is significant public concern about overseas water-bottlers taking our water and exporting it; and there is no resource rental, so there\u2019s no commercial return to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also additional consideration of M\u0101ori cultural values and what impact the investment would have on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the areas that we\u2019re disappointed in is that Government did not see fit to support the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that I put forward on behalf of the Green Party around forestry to make sure that forestry was on a level playing field with other applications to purchase land by overseas companies. We\u2019ve seen significant investment by overseas companies\u2014over some decades now\u2014in the New Zealand forestry sector. In fact, about 70 percent of the forestry industry is overseas owned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe are not objecting to forestry per se\u2014the National Party says the same, but it does seem to be objecting to forestry as a land use. What we wanted was that those forestry companies, when they are buying farmland, have to establish that there was a significant benefit, and that might be that there was significant added-value processing requirements around supplying timber to processing companies in Aotearoa New Zealand rather than so many of our logs sitting on our wharves and being exported in raw form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI hope that the Minister does ask officials in Treasury to look more closely at that so that we are not seeing the overall alienation of farmland for significant forestry investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other changes that is of benefit is the fact that the good character test has a lot more clarity around it. It goes to factors around things like criminal offences. There\u2019s also an ability to take into account an applicant\u2019s tax payment record and, if there has been unpaid tax, to take that into account. So there\u2019s quite a lot of enhancement around tax disclosures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other changes that Dr Duncan Webb noted were around the issue of where there are changes in the level of ownership\u2014shareholder creep, I think it\u2019s been called\u2014so that where the shareholding just increases slightly, that is no longer a factor which triggers an application under the Act. Instead, it is where that ownership by overseas persons passes defined thresholds, which match those in the Companies Act in terms of the ability of the shareholder to block resolutions and the like\u201425 percent, 50 percent, and 70 percent. That provides greater clarity and will mean that the office is not burdened with considering applications that it doesn\u2019t really need to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other key measures is around the urgent measures test, which Barbara Edmonds talked to. It was really helpful that this legislation was going through as a backstop to the measures which Government had to put in place around urgent measures in relation to COVID because of that concern that we would get vulnerable New Zealand companies\u2014because of the impacts of COVID: loss of business\u2014being bought up by overseas interests, putting in place a strong regime around national interest and greater ministerial assessment. This bill, in following along behind, has allowed that regime to be adjusted, still giving the Government the power to screen some of those transactions where they breach our national interest thresholds. So while we are disappointed by the lack of the forestry SOP, there are a number of other changes which have significantly improved the legislation, and the Green Party will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224f4c9c1f559a41e388ff9f99a26bcd35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f4c9c1f559a41e388ff9f99a26bcd35\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, it\u2019s come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e61c0e198c664404b0dca9efa5e8f19e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e61c0e198c664404b0dca9efa5e8f19e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. When the House rose for the dinner break, we had just completed the sixth speaker on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). Would some member like to seek the call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2b219ecce8147bea29eba4f3b77cc45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2b219ecce8147bea29eba4f3b77cc45\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t like to trifle, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s fair to say we\u2019d \u201Ccompleted the sixth speaker\u201D; I think the sixth speech had been completed. I\u2019d hate to see the House \u201Ccomplete a speaker\u201D. That would be\u2014well, I\u2019d hate to think what that would look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01330f4a5b74bdd8399ed4be83db0c9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: So helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f6f4130003491d936fe0c0124ace9a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: But having dealt with that minor matter, I arise on behalf of ACT in opposition to the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). Let me just say a few things, first, about the importance of foreign investment to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s possible to tell the history of New Zealand as a history of foreign investment. Kupe showed up with a waka hourua and a couple of kunekune pigs, and we\u2019ve been importing foreign capital to New Zealand ever since. We\u2019ve never looked back, and it is absolutely critical that we don\u2019t rely purely on the savings of New Zealanders to capitalise the businesses, the farms, and the firms that make New Zealand prosperous. A little while later, after Kupe\u2019s arrival, Sir Joseph Ward, the then finance Minister, later Prime Minister, had to go to London and beg for favourable terms for credit so that New Zealand could actually expand and capitalise its infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThese are the stories of our history, all the way from the arrival of the first person we\u2019ve been importing foreign capital, and long may we continue to do so. I know there\u2019s some people who don\u2019t like it much. There are some people who don\u2019t like foreigners very much. I personally like foreigners. There\u2019s a lot of good people in the world. Many of them live in other countries. Good jokers and good joker-ettes live in New Zealand and elsewhere, and I think we should actually embrace them. But even people who don\u2019t like foreigners should be in favour of foreign investment. Let me explain why that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EImmigration is when foreigners come and live here, potentially next door to you. Foreign investment is when they stay home and just send you money. What a great thing is foreign investment, essential to New Zealand\u2019s economic future, and, unfortunately, New Zealand has a history in recent times of being one of the most fortified against foreign investment, and people want to send money to New Zealand. Recent example: Microsoft, a well-known software company from the United States, wanted to send money and know-how and capital to New Zealand to establish a data centre in Auckland. What a wonderful thing\u2014our friends around the world wanting to invest in New Zealand, providing the capital, the know-how, the infrastructure for New Zealanders to do their work\u2014and yet, oh no, no, we have the Overseas Investment Act to make it harder and delay and slow them down in getting their capital here. In fact, we\u2019ve been ranked fourth-worst in the OECD for openness to investment. So there\u2019s an awful lot of work that could be done by a Government that wanted to improve our legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat does this overseas investment bill do? Is it worth supporting? Will it help reinforce New Zealand\u2019s tradition of foreign investment? Will it tear down some of the barriers to foreign investment that we\u2019ve recently erected that impoverish us by making it hard to get foreign capital? Well, it says it\u2019s \u201Cembedding a higher threshold for acquiring farm land, and ensuring that farm land is advertised in a way that best ensures New Zealanders have a chance to acquire it\u201D. I heard the Minister responsible say, \u201CWe don\u2019t want to sell our farms.\u201D Well, let\u2019s just think about what that means for a moment. I mean, first of all, \u201Cour farms\u201D\u2014what is he talking about? Has New Zealand secretly become a sort of North Korea of the South Pacific with one big collective farm that\u2019s for sale? No, actually, New Zealand individuals own farms, and it\u2019s up to them to decide who they sell them to, not up to someone else to decide. But it turns out that, actually, if you want to sell your farm to one of those terrible foreign people, then you have to advertise that you\u2019re doing it in the paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u201CEnabling decision-makers to consider the effects on sustainability of investments that involve water bottling or bulk water extraction\u201D\u2014now, isn\u2019t this interesting? The Minister got up and said, \u201CI don\u2019t know if there should be environmental considerations in the Overseas Investment Act because, actually, we have the Resource Management Act, we have environmental regulations in New Zealand.\u201D Now, if we need environmental regulations for foreign investors, are we saying that we don\u2019t mind if local investors damage the environment? Well, of course we\u2019re not. We have a robust environmental regulatory regime for people who are using land, such as bottling water, all up and down New Zealand. Why would it matter who the person was? It\u2019s pure politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s \u201Crequiring investors to disclose information relating to their proposed investment structure and tax treatment to Inland Revenue\u201D. Well, there you go, yet another hurdle, another burden where people find themselves having to justify themselves to bureaucrats whose greatest power is the ability to say no, to stand athwart progress, yelling \u201CStop!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen it says, \u201Cbetter recognising M\u0101ori cultural values. For example, the bill would require decision-makers empowered by the regime to take into account an applicant\u2019s plans to protect or enhance w\u0101hi t\u016Bpuna, w\u0101hi tapu areas, and M\u0101ori reservations.\u201D Well, really? I mean, why is that actually different from the regulatory regime we have for land use in the rest of New Zealand? It\u2019s only if you\u2019re a foreign investor? We could argue about the level of commitment we have to preserving and upholding M\u0101ori culture, but why would we have a different regime for people to do that if they don\u2019t happen to be born in New Zealand? Surely, we would want to have a regulatory regime to protect M\u0101ori culture\u2014if, indeed, it needs protection by regulations\u2014that applies to everybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen it goes on to say, \u201Cthe Government intends to reduce the burden that the overseas investment regime imposes on investors and the regulator. The bill would achieve this by: no longer screening non-residential leases of less than 10 years\u201D\u2014I\u2019m sure there will be some benefits in that. \u201CAllowing investors that have previously been screened and approved to use a streamlined consent process for future investments\u201D\u2014well, that sounds like something that should have been done years ago, so that\u2019s not such a bad thing. \u201CNo longer requiring a large range of low-risk transactions to get consent. For example, the bill would no longer require consent decisions on investments in less sensitive land that is only screened because it adjoins sensitive land\u201D\u2014well, these are sensible but minuscule, minor changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo the question is whether to support this bill. Well, there\u2019s two problems here. Number one is that to justify a change in legislation, you have to justify all the imposition of the uncertainty and disruption that you put on people used to doing business. That\u2019s a threshold that there has to be some substantial improvement, and, unfortunately, overall, when you look at the overall amount of restriction on investment of the people trying to send money to New Zealand\u2014a process we\u2019re so hostile to for some reason\u2014you\u2019d have to say this is a mild step backwards. That doesn\u2019t justify a change, so the ACT Party can\u2019t support the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat the Government could have done, and should have done, is gone back to first principles and asked: what is the purpose of the Overseas Investment Act? Well, surely it is to stop people who would do harm to New Zealanders\u2014people who might, for instance, want to have a military installation, people who might want to acquire land for strategic purposes, or people who might want to somehow use their ownership to leverage New Zealand politics. Those might be good reasons to actually prevent people investing in New Zealand because they wanted to do harm to New Zealanders. That\u2019s what a good regime would look like\u2014so you can invest so long as you\u2019re not doing harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut instead, we have this regime where we have to prove that an investment has net benefits to New Zealand. Well, just a minute\u2014how can anybody truly know? Which New Zealanders? What\u2019s a benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESurely, the fact that you have a willing buyer and a willing seller already tells you something. The person who owns the property values the money offered more than the property they own. If that test doesn\u2019t make it net beneficial to New Zealand, what will? We end up with a situation where in order to sell your property and get investment, you have to contort yourself for a process of pure politics, deciding what a valid benefit for New Zealand is. That, unfortunately, is pure banana republic stuff, and until the Government is prepared to go back to first principles and ask what the role of Government and regulating foreign investment is and actually genuinely makes it easier for people to bring capital to this country and choose how to sell their own land and who to sell it to, the ACT Party will not support legislation such as this. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022626ac98b6a93403c8c61dc01e2b02357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022626ac98b6a93403c8c61dc01e2b02357\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to talk about a bill in its third reading, particularly after that speech from ACT. It\u2019s always actually something that really reminds me of my job, because the view of that party is so different from my own, and I stand with a party I\u2019m really proud of, because it has come a long way since those ideologies dominated this House. We\u2019re actually in a situation where everyone else is in consensus\u2014other than ACT\u2014on this to a large extent, and that\u2019s because we can all see the value in leadership in the parties in this House actually doing their jobs, which is to make sure that the interests\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269301bc9bdee40d6a7c5e41c79e16813\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will come back to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d03360b9a814976822af0505d9d863c\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. It is absolutely about this bill, because this bill is about the parties in this House doing their job and making sure that, actually, our\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257552cb078ed4e2aaa95afc0f1817387\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad24182bc1ce42f4a685655ff21ee52e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fffd46f4a7643d09d200458d83cc8e4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve invited the member to return to the bill. This is a third reading speech, and I\u2019d ask the member to confine her comments to what is contained in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b285415b68d5469b86139924582e8ed3\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, ma\u2019am. Actually, today I got a letter that was about this bill. It was a letter that came in after the last speech in this House, asking a specific question, and it made me realise just how important something like this is to very, very ordinary New Zealand citizens. We tend to think about a bill like this as actually being about big business, but it\u2019s not. It\u2019s actually about ordinary citizens and making sure that they get what they need out of a society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a balancing act. It is something that, in 2018, was set out in its objectives. The objectives of the Act were not to discourage investment but to channel it into the right places. So it was about encouraging investment, but it was also about constraining it when that might actually pose a risk to New Zealand. My letter, from a person in Auckland, was simply about her worry that a property that she was involved in in a rest home might actually go to an overseas investor without comment. Of course, it won\u2019t do that, because if, in fact, overseas people or companies were to take over ownership, this legislation would actually make sure that there is sufficient constraint on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EJust let me go through what this bill does. In 2018, we had a strategy that was to build up our constraint on overseas investment, and that was with the dual purpose of encouraging investment and controlling investment where there was risk. It\u2019s going to control the investment over sensitive assets like fishing quota and sensitive land, and, actually, just assets that matter a lot. In 2020, that became extremely important because we had a crisis in this country, and it was very real as a possibility that there would be a dramatic drop in the share price of a lot of our companies and those companies would be subject to takeover by overseas investors. If that had happened, we would have lost a lot of our taonga, a lot of the things that matter to us. You\u2019ve heard my colleague Barbara Edmonds talking about that specifically affecting something like crayfish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIn that time, some of the rules were put in place, but they were put in place in a way that really needed review. So part of the job of the Finance and Expenditure Committee was to review those changes as well as look at the new ones. The submitters gave us a lot of good feedback, and we have struck a good balance here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo what we have now is we have an investment regime which, for example, curbs the call-in powers. So the call-ins will be in places where the Minister can block or impose conditions on acquisitions where there is significant vulnerability, and it will be constrained to that. It is going to mean that things like ports or electricity or investments that would actually do some damage if they went overseas into foreign ownership could actually be protected and stay within New Zealand. We heard the Minister talk about his rather deep thought about how monopolies happen in this area and how important it is that those monopolies really sometimes happen within the constraints of our country and we don\u2019t lose control of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe have made changes with regard to farmland. It does sound like a little thing, but it was kind of absurd to hear in the select committee that people were advertising farmland after having sold it, and the objection of some submitters was that what we would do if we changed this would be to stop that process and that this would be just, somehow, red tape. We concluded it wasn\u2019t red tape; it was exactly what the purpose of the bill was: to give New Zealanders an opportunity to actually buy that land, to actually allow the people selling it to realise its true value, but within New Zealand hands if possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe had a change with regard to leases. Now, that one was one where we really struck a really good balance, I think. We\u2019ve gone for controlling leases that are over 10 years, and that includes the right of renewal being within that time. It would be possible to lease land without really engaging if it\u2019s on those sort of short-term bases, but it will stop the kind of perpetual leases and long-term leases that really alienate that land from New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWith regard to foreign ownership and foreign control, I thought that was another situation which really was a good example of striking the balance, making sure that the investment was going into the right places. We now have a rule that says that foreign control, if it\u2019s over 25 percent, will need to be screened, but we really distinguished between control and passive investment. The real valuable money for us is in things like, as my colleague Mr Bayly talked about, sovereign wealth funds, the super funds, the buy-backs of CEOs. Those things will all be able to be done without red tape, and my colleague Barbara Edmonds made the point that this is intended to mean that there\u2019s a 30 percent reduction in the applications needed under this Act. That\u2019s a huge streamlining that\u2019s going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWith regard to adjoining land to sensitive land, again, there\u2019s been an easing there. Because it\u2019s not really a worry, that adjoining land, there isn\u2019t the need for people to go through the process. There\u2019s also a streamlining over fit and proper persons, so that once you\u2019ve actually got that approval and you\u2019ve been through that rigorous process, it doesn\u2019t have to happen in the same way again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWith regard to non-productive land, I thought this was a very interesting one in terms of the values of the Labour Party. Non-productive land on the edges of cities which could be used for housing is one area where we heard from submitters on rent-to-buy schemes, and they talked about how that land was land that they really saw as potential in terms of them building houses. We also heard from a lot of the rest homes with regard to that land. That is a priority for this Government, just making sure that there are houses for people and affordable houses for people. So there\u2019s been an easing up with regard to that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EFinally, I wanted to just go back and thank the people we heard from, because it was an extraordinary range of people. I am new to this House, and what I was extremely impressed by was the skill of those people, the fact that they were willing to share at a level which was not just about protecting someone\u2019s interests; mainly it was actually about sharing a vast deal of knowledge. They very much came often from a point of view\u2014particularly the law firms\u2014of actually trying to make this country a better place and trying to make sure that we were actually getting that balance right, we were actually encouraging investment where it should be, and we weren\u2019t stopping people at the door if they wanted to pour money into this country, but we were making sure also that we weren\u2019t alienating things that are taonga from New Zealand. I really appreciate the insights I got from them, and it made a big difference in that process, so thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002269d9ce44e64b4f70990796de3b8f475c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269d9ce44e64b4f70990796de3b8f475c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: A five-minute call\u2014Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022076ad9270cf041efacf130c06419b585\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022076ad9270cf041efacf130c06419b585\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, I rise on behalf of the National Party and as the MP for North Shore to take a short call on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), third reading. National supports this bill. There should be a level playing field for all types of overseas investment in New Zealand, regardless of whether this investment is on a farm, commercial enterprise, technology start-up, or in forestry. This bill works to reduce the burden that the Overseas Investment Act imposes on investors and the regulator, and this is a sensible approach. We are pleased that the Government has finally started to recognise the importance of reducing the arduous administrative red tape that is around investment, red tape that is costing our businesses growth and productivity\u2014red tape that reduces New Zealand\u2019s attractiveness to investment necessary to support a productive and sustainable economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EHaving spent over 20 years of my career working in financial services and global banking and markets, it is clear to me that making New Zealand a more attractive place to do business and a destination for overseas investment needs to be and should be a significant priority, particularly around reducing the burden of regulation. The National Party supports the amendments that have been made to this bill through the select committee process, and I thank those members on the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their contribution. One of those particular amendments was around loosening the requirements around unproductive farmland, which, likewise, otherwise could be repurposed for commercial use, industrial, or residential developments, and I guess this makes sense. So we\u2019re pleased to see that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhat doesn\u2019t make sense is the fact that this Labour Government has not used its powers to remedy the carve-out for forestry, and that is disappointing. But we\u2019ve still got time. I\u2019m only the ninth call this evening, so we might see a change in decision on that before we finish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn my electorate of the North Shore, we have many bright and hard-working people with real ambition to be best in class, and telling our story and promoting the attractiveness in the North Shore as a destination for foreign investment is important. It\u2019s important for our technology incubator businesses that are operating within healthcare and also looking at climate solutions, so anything that this House can do to reduce the burden of regulation on our business, reduce red tape, and reduce cost should be a priority and should be something that we continue to do at pace. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6d8506d5a2240caaf0f31a7f4b5d1de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6d8506d5a2240caaf0f31a7f4b5d1de\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m delighted to take a call in this third reading of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). I note that a certain party of two in this House have chosen not to participate in this debate, so I\u2019m more than delighted to take this opportunity to support this bill and support the good work of this Government in progressing and improving our overseas investment regime. That\u2019s what this bill is about: the leadership of the Hon David Parker, with our Government, ensuring that we have a COVID recovery that is boosting our economy and ensuring that, particularly, our productive sectors maintain their competitive edge internationally and can be a productive, sustainable, and an inclusive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EJust today, just as an example, I was driving through my vast electorate of Te Tai Tonga, an area which\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9849dbcf2da4b93924f00edc4beff4b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Which bit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777ea674a7004ec88bdbda4c8fa590c4\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Hon Gerry Brownlee would know well. The beautiful Canterbury Plains, K\u0101 P\u0101kihi Whakatekateka o Waitaha. As I was driving all the way from Christchurch down to Timaru\u2014mighty Timaru\u2014just the vast landscapes that we have there. Productive, world-leading, arable farming landscapes, farming systems, world-leading systems, whether it be in dairy\u2014some wonderful dairy processing facilities dotted throughout the landscape as we go. I could go on and on through the great island of Te Waipounamu, to the West Coast, to Southland, to Otago. We know how important our taonga lands are to us as a country to maintaining our competitive advantage and earning a living in this very dynamic and challenging world that we live in, in this COVID environment, so overseas investment is critical to our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis bill makes a number of very welcome changes to ensure that we are protecting our taonga especially, and I know this is very dear to M\u0101ori up and down the country. Mind you, M\u0101ori, in general, are very welcoming of overseas investment. We have been so since the Treaty. Since before the Treaty, we were very welcoming. It was just unfortunate that once we did sign the Treaty, things did sort of go awry somewhat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut overseas investment has always been necessary for our economy. It has always been necessary to improve the productivity, right across our productive sectors especially, and we have overseas investment happening every day and in every sphere of our economy. Whether it\u2019s in the tech space or our businesses being purchased and interest in businesses being bought and sold, there are investments happening across the board, but we want to ensure, through this bill, that we do protect our taonga\u2014productive land. Therefore, ensuring that the directive which the Minister gave to the Overseas Investment Office, we are codifying that into legislation to ensure that there has to be a demonstrable boost and productive improvement to those land assets to ensure that the investment is justified. So it\u2019s a very high bar now that applicants have to meet and that is very welcome, because we want to ensure\u2014and I certainly do, as I continue to drive around the great big island\u2014that we maintain our sovereignty as Kiwis but we also welcome that investment that will help to enhance and grow the wealth of our provinces and our region and our nation as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThere are also a number of very helpful improvements through this bill. I want to acknowledge the Finance and Expenditure Committee for all their helpful contributions that they made in their consideration of this bill. Some very helpful improvements have been made to ensure that those applications which do meet the tests and which are going to add and enhance our businesses and their profitability and their productivity\u2014those applications will have an easier time to ensure that they can get processed quicker, and there\u2019s a whole host, a suite, of sensible improvements in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo, on the whole, this is an excellent piece of legislation. I thank the members and the parties for their support of this bill. This is, once again, ensuring that we can continue our COVID recovery and boost our economy. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd24104ecfd416a9da7618e5109dd14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd24104ecfd416a9da7618e5109dd14\u0022\u003EGREG O\u0027CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), I\u2019d just like to go to the heart of the bill, just for anyone who\u2019s maybe watching at home or listening and who\u2019s just not quite sure. I think if one goes to section 17 in clause 9, we\u2019re really talking about the beneficial test factors, and this is where the heart of it is. [Interruption] It\u2019s probably a little bit too detailed and complicated for some of the members opposite, but I have much more faith in the comprehension skills of those sitting watching at home and those sitting on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIt goes to the economic benefits, and I\u2019m sure we can all agree that that\u2019s why we\u2019re here. We want to do things that economically benefit this country and also things that benefit the natural environment. These are things that are in the bill, and they continue or enhance access by the public within or over sensitive land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to speak to that one. I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm in a farming community, and access to land was never an issue. If I wanted to go somewhere, go and shoot a deer or goat, I just rang up the next-door farmer, and it was always a matter of making sure you had permission, but it wasn\u2019t an issue. I grew up with full access to the whole area of the Buller, really, and it was only when I moved to the North Island and went to a town in the middle of a lot of farmland, I suddenly realised what it was to grow up without access to any farmland, where actually you had to, basically, do a 15-minute car drive before you could get access to any land, with that being a forest. That sort of sowed a seed in me. It is pretty necessary that people in a country do have access to that land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, you could go to the extent that the Swedes go. The Swedes have a thing called every man\u2019s right. I\u2019m not sure if they\u2019ve made that every person\u2019s right now, in light of the changes in our society, but that means that, essentially, as long as you don\u2019t go within 10 metres of a dwelling, you can actually wander anywhere around Sweden. Well, no one\u2019s advocating that, and I\u2019m certainly not advocating that, but it\u2019s just the extreme of understanding of how important it is that New Zealanders do actually have access to this great land of ours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo continuing down section 17(1)(e), there is also \u201Cgive effect to or advance a significant Government policy:\u201D. Again, it\u2019s inserting that whatever the Government of the day is, it\u2019s important that this legislation does protect and give any Government the ability to ensure that they can enhance and that they are not prevented from introducing policy because they haven\u2019t got control of significant access to significant land\u2014again, an important part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, when I\u2019ve spoken on this before, there are those\u2014and I\u2019ve heard speakers opposite, particularly from the ACT Party\u2014saying that nothing is strategic about land, nothing strategic about ownership. When I\u2019ve spoken on this bill before, just those of us here who are\u2014well, we\u2019ve all come from somewhere, whether it be in 1200 or latterly. Certainly, my ancestors came from Ireland. Now, if anyone wants to know how strategic ownership of land is important\u2014this goes right back to section 17, and I\u2019m very careful. I know, Madam Speaker, that you like to ensure that we are narrowly on the sections. Let\u2019s go to section 17, coming back to ensuring the strategic asset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo at that time, there were about 8 million people living in Ireland, and they lost control of their land\u2014it was taken over by the English. Then a famine visited that land, and the population reduced to less than 2 million in a very short time. The problem was that the locals had lost control of their land strategically, and at that time, while the population was starving, those that owned the land were actually still exporting food. So if one looks for an example of losing that strategic asset, or losing strategic ownership of your land, that is a very good example, and there\u2019s not very many people here who have come to this land, wherever their ancestors come from, where there won\u2019t have been a similar case of loss of control, usually to another country. The extreme of that, of course, is by invasion, by warfare. It\u2019s something that we\u2019d all prevent, because the first thing any invader does is take full control of the assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, we balance that\u2014again, I agree with one of the previous speakers saying that overseas investment is absolutely necessary. We only need to look for North Korea and some of those regimes to see where they turned off the overseas tap altogether and the effect that had on the population of those countries. So coming back to section 17, which I know you\u2019re very keen for me to do, Madam Speaker\u2014I keep going back to it. But these are very good examples of why this bill has become so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOf course, it is the second part of a piece of legislation. The original legislation was the urgent measures, which was brought in around the COVID recovery, and that was, again, being referred to by other speakers, when we talked about where there was a danger that our economy may have collapsed. It wasn\u2019t that long ago that farms in New Zealand, in the late 1980s\u2014it was probably with a little bit of regret that I didn\u2019t whip in and buy a farm at the time myself, because they were very hard to give away at the end of the 1980s because of other decisions made. So it would have been a real shame that we end up losing control or ownership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, again, there\u2019ll be those who say it doesn\u2019t matter whether we lose control, because the money comes in. The problem with that, though, is once a piece of land in New Zealand has actually gone to overseas ownership, it remains in overseas ownership. So if we get a Hong Kong corporation that owns a large chunk of Mr Brownlee\u2019s favourite area of Canterbury, well, that\u2019s fine. That money, when it\u2019s originally sold, will remain in New Zealand. It\u2019ll be reinvested in other things. However, that corporation in Hong Kong that then onsells that to a corporation in New York\u2014tell me, there is actually no benefit of that, because that money is, essentially, a transaction that takes place offshore, and the benefit will accrue all offshore. So other than perhaps the transaction costs that will accrue to New Zealanders, there will be no benefit. So, again, it\u2019s very, very important that we look at what is strategically the intent of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EGoing through the bill, one of the things also I was going to look at was water\u2014actually, water extraction. Now, that\u2019s one of the things that often New Zealanders become passionate about: why we\u2019ve lost control of our water\u2014well, our water rights. It\u2019s not the water. That\u2019s what the commodity is, and, of course, much of that has gone. The Waiwera water, I think, is owned by a Russian conglomerate over there at the moment. So that is the one thing, often, when New Zealanders generally are concerned and lamenting a loss overseas of a local asset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWater is actually specifically mentioned in the bill. Ministers can consider whether the transaction will or is likely to result in a positive or negative impact on water quality and sustainability\u2014again, very sensitive. It won\u2019t actually, currently, affect the rights of those that are extracting water. It won\u2019t be turning the tap off, so to speak\u2014if you excuse the analogy\u2014but what it does do is that where the use of that water by foreign companies does look like it\u2019s going to have an impact on New Zealand, either by way of its quality or sustainability, then there is the ability for Government to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, one of the other important parts\u2014and I am sort of starting to run a little bit out of time; hopefully, one of the following speakers will talk about this\u2014is the ability of overseas companies to own. Again, I\u2019ll look at probably the best example\u2014that is, managed funds or the managed investment schemes. There are two categories here. If they are unlisted and the manager or trustee is an overseas person and more than 25 percent of the value of the scheme\u2019s investments are invested on behalf of overseas persons, then they will come within the parameters of this bill. Also, if they are a listed company and overseas persons own 50 percent or more of the value of the scheme\u2019s investments, again, they will come within the purview of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis will not stop transactions\u2014this is not going to turn us into North Korea. This will ensure that there is still the ability to attract overseas investment, which we need, and I think every speaker here has agreed we need to do. It\u2019s just ensuring that we understand that, strategically, in New Zealand, the Government of the day is able and has the ability to ensure the decision making it has around strategy, around safety, around water quality, and that it actually is able to do these things and that we don\u2019t become a country where it\u2019s too late, essentially, to turn around and try and make long-term, strategic decisions for the benefit of those that come after us because the horse has bolted. So I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227a5b3a1d8826453dab49dbf17cc8a159\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a5b3a1d8826453dab49dbf17cc8a159\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Having listened to the last four Labour speakers, I was momentarily wondering to myself why I was supporting the bill. Then I realised that we were supporting the bill on this side of the House because we know what it does; they on that side of the House clearly don\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe had the extraordinary comment made by the first of those speakers, telling us that this bill was all about the Government\u2019s priority to get New Zealanders into houses. Well, all I would say to that is, if the Government\u2019s priority is to get New Zealanders into houses, don\u2019t have too many priorities, because it is not going very well at the moment, and there is nothing in this bill that will make that current situation any better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen, we had the wonderful traverse across the Canterbury Plains from Rino Tirikatene. Now, I\u2019ve got to say that I thought he is the first Labour speaker I\u2019ve heard in this House say anything positive about the rural community, the first Labour speaker in this House that I\u2019ve heard actually supporting the work of farmers in this country, and the first Labour speaker to recognise that it is the investment in horticulture and in agriculture in this country that is so important to our export mates. And guess what! A big chunk of that export income that holds up all of the social services provided in this country, that eventually will manage some of the extraordinary debt that we\u2019re going to see in front of us tomorrow, will come from that sort of investment, and this is a small step\u2014a very small step\u2014towards recognising that New Zealand has always been a country that has had significant foreign investment, whether it was, once upon a time, our main streets of our post-Treaty towns owned by banks and insurance companies that were domiciled in the British Isles or in some other part of Europe, or today, where we have a range of different nationalities owning some parts of our CBD, some of our farmland, some of our forest land, and some of our industrial and other productive sector, as well. It is no different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe reality is that in a world that is flush with capital at the moment, it can go anywhere. If we are to be a country that remains competitive internationally, that does have the opportunity to keep its interest rates low, and, over time, to massively increase the incomes of New Zealanders\u2014something that has not happened in the last four years and is now, actually, by a decree from the Government, for a big chunk of New Zealanders not going to happen in the next three years. But if it is to happen, then we will need to have ongoing investment in various activities around New Zealand, and some of that will come from foreign sources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about this is the fear that clearly comes through in this bill from the Government. It is timid\u2014very, very timid. Look at some of the main provisions that are in this bill. Firstly, it says the bill will grant the Government powers to effectively manage the risk posed by foreign investors. Well, how is it that you\u2019ve got a bill that enables foreign investments that then focuses on the risk of those investments? Why isn\u2019t there simply the opportunity for those investments to be made? Immediately, anyone looking at it gets a degree of \u201CNot welcome here.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen, we look at introducing the higher threshold for acquiring farmland. It ensures farmland is advertised in a way that ensures New Zealanders have a chance to acquire it before overseas investment is involved. Remember all the furore over the Crafar Farms? Massive furore\u2014people up and down the country upset that they were being sold to Shanghai Pengxin, a Chinese company. People ignored the fact that the animal husbandry on those farms was appalling and ignored the fact that the investment in those farms as productive units was non-existent, and now people will be able to go and look at those farms and see what happens when you get good quality investment in farming activities in New Zealand. It brings everybody else up with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt should also be recognised that it is the quality of that investment that also determines the price that ultimately gets paid for the product produced. So I can\u2019t understand why people can celebrate the fact that it is still going to have to have a ministerial flick over it when, in fact, there is no chance that that farmland can be wrapped up, packed up, put in a container, and taken away. It remains here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d594762925c40709a7d93209d76345c\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: But the profits can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6c32da86004af5855ff50f63f95c04\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a question simply of the activity\u2014no. Hang on, I\u2019m not talking about the vineyards. I\u2019m not talking about the vineyards and the product from them\u2014best the member doesn\u2019t get into any of that discussion. I just think that allowing decision makers to factor in sustainability and water quality in investments involving water bottling and bulk water extraction is also a very interesting thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELook at the situation that exists down in Canterbury, where a former wool scour had an enormous right to take water to wash out the various contaminants in the wool\u2014and we all know what they are\u2014and then to send that contaminated water down the local river, no worries whatsoever. Now, of course, the plant has ceased operations because some of the people, like those on the other side of the House, thought that it was far better to wash dirty wool and send the by-product down the river than it was to put that pristine, clean water into a bottle and recover funding for this country from its sale, and a fraction\u2014just a fraction\u2014each year of what would normally be flushed down that river would be sold at a benefit for the entire New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the attitude that we\u2019re seeing over there. They\u2019re all getting excited over there at the moment. You\u2019d swear they wanted to go out and bottle that filthy water after it\u2019s been through a wool scour. I can\u2019t understand their attitude. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EYes, there can be standards. That\u2019s why you have a Resource Management Act that puts those standards on it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022081673f025cb4b358f8ed152069e00d6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will come back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b6b757b628a46a4b5316d23c358bb0e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that is why this particular provision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275515dba54f44f549e39e310013b7269\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aceeaf32a0747d4a5c2d1ad6d46bf97\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in this bill is of absolute concern to this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen, there is the idea\u2014and I think that David Seymour covered this extremely well\u2014that you have to put into the bill some protection for better recognition of M\u0101ori cultural values, including taking into account plans \u201Cto protect and enhance w\u0101hi t\u016Bpuna, w\u0101hi tapu areas,\u201D and then it says, \u201CM\u0101ori reservations\u201D. Well, why wouldn\u2019t that just be a natural condition for any investor in this country? No, it\u2019s got to be specified here as some kind of overlay because a whole lot of your cultural pirates are likely to land in New Zealand and want to buy up some of our land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELet me just take you to a part of the bill that the previous speaker, Mr Greg O\u2019Connor, didn\u2019t manage to; that is, section 17 in clause 9 of the bill. It talks about the aspects that would be focused on where there is consideration of the sale of land to foreign entities. Why is it that anybody coming into New Zealand can buy perfectly good farmland, productive farmland, promise to put it into a forest, and not have to go through a process? Why is it that we have a foreign investment amendment bill that still means that if anyone wants to come and buy that land for productive purposes\u2014annual productive purposes, job-creating productive purposes\u2014they can\u2019t, without a massive number of hoops to go through. But if they turn up and they say \u201CWe\u2019re going to plant it, the whole 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 hectares, formerly beef and sheep and whatever else might be produced on that land, and we\u2019re going to plant it in trees.\u201D and the answer is \u201CGo for your life.\u201D, that\u2019s the sort of convoluted logic that, unfortunately, the Government presents all too often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo, while we are supporting this bill, it is with the caveat that it is a bill that is only taking baby steps to the sort of investment this country is going to need if we are to get through the extraordinarily difficult times likely to be ahead of us, given the heavy load of debt that we will all see exposed in the Budget tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220ca2bf3ba1bf4d078d7557a4668c3d04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ca2bf3ba1bf4d078d7557a4668c3d04\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak as the last person to speak on the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) and in doing so, I\u2019m thrilled to say this is the fourth time in a row that I have spoken on a bill where the National Opposition have been supporting the work that we do. In doing this, I think this just shows me that the hard work that we do in select committee is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThere are so many parts of this bill that demonstrate that New Zealand is open for business. This bill works to reform New Zealand\u2019s overseas investment regime to ensure that we can continue to attract the productive, sustainable, and inclusive investment we need to boost economic growth, and yes, grow jobs. But in doing so, it\u2019s also protecting our assets and, particularly, our farmland. By improving New Zealand\u2019s business access to the investment we need to thrive, this bill supports our recovery and sets us up for continued economic success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, I just want to talk a little bit about the farmland and where National sits on this, because over nine years, while the National Government was in, they made the overseas investment regime more and more complicated while taking a lax approach to protecting valuable New Zealand assets, like farmland, from foreign ownership. So the ministerial directive letter was sent by the Government to the Overseas Investment Office in 2017 and put a high bar on the foreign purchase of land of greater than five hectares. Now, in this bill, we\u2019re incorporating that letter so that if a future ACT and National Government was ever to come into power and wanted to sell off New Zealand\u2019s farmland, then we would make sure that we have got the protections to stop them from doing what they did in those 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, I want to put on the record now that we\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House how they backed farmers tonight. And I can say that there were hundreds of hectares of rolling, productive farmland sold to foreign investment over those 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f51f8b9e9b48a9ae6db360de961a37\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! This is a third reading speech. It is to be a summary, if you like, of the bill at hand. Occasionally, it can stray into other related matters, but commentary on what another party may have done is not within the scope of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f019519bbc47628cb1780ac40fda65\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. So this bill will embed a higher threshold for foreign investment in farmland. Farmland has significant economic and cultural value, and New Zealanders are world leaders in the primary sector. Reflecting on these factors, this bill embeds a higher threshold for the acquisition of farmland. In general terms, this means that farmland cannot be acquired by overseas persons unless they offer substantial benefits to New Zealand, such as the creation of jobs or the introduction of technology. Farmland must also be publicly advertised before entering into an agreement to sell, to maximise the chance of a New Zealander being able to acquire it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, I want to talk about this particular part, coming back to Hawke\u2019s Bay, where it\u2019s been very important in making sure that in this bill we make sure that we have the advertising prior to the land being sold. Some of the submitters, when they raised questions about applying this to having zoning around farmland, we also talked about the reasons for making sure that this wasn\u2019t so stringent in the bill. For example, there is very high productive farmland around urban fringes in my area of Hawke\u2019s Bay. Submitters talked about wanting there to be the opportunity not to have to advertise on areas of 40 hectares or less, but in places like Hawke\u2019s Bay, where there is land around those fringes, that\u2019s been important. So in this bill, we decided it was more important to keep the advertising over and above that for all productive farmland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI want to talk a bit about forestry. Now, there\u2019s been a lot of talk tonight about forestry and it asks\u2014in here, we need to highlight this as part of the bill. In 2018, we brought forestry rights into the Act for the first time. Prior to this, overseas investors could invest in forestry rights without scrutiny, although they did need a consent to acquire the freehold and leasehold land. Now, I want to say that there\u2019s been a lot of talk tonight in this third reading of the bill about forestry. I want to say, \u201CFarmers, foresters, and conservationists all share the objective to plant more trees in the right places, whether to diversify farm incomes, stabilise erosion-prone hills, increase wood supply for processing, or create more permanent indigenous forests for biosecurity or recreational use.\u201D I use that quote from the Minister of Forestry, Stuart Nash. Now, \u201CForestry is the third largest primary exporter by value, so it\u2019s important we keep innovating to support regional development, drive economic growth and meet our climate and environmental [standards]. \u2026 Forestry [is] a key part of our climate change response.\u201D Now, that\u2019s why it\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another question I would like to leave in the House tonight. If the National Party\u2014who have raised this time and time again tonight\u2014continues to say what they do, I\u2019m asking the question: is the National Party going to tell farmers who they can sell their land to? Is that what this National Party is asking? Do they want to legislate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d672d1f524af434dabb06f99af9b7efb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what the bill does! That\u2019s what the bill does!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd15e6373fd409db46406647c387f41\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Do they want to legislate, and is that what the National Party is doing? If that\u2019s what the National Party is doing, then I would like to know that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223e1ce129b612459db24c5c5820bbf1eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000631\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b384bbc8adc43489386c7a427aac22f\u0022\u003EPlant Variety Rights Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221508a3515d6f4f608c4912e20dc9f2db\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000634\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 18 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00227f27b7ce150143268c01002a3c6ce050\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f27b7ce150143268c01002a3c6ce050\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate that. Yes, we were interrupted last night. This was the last item on the agenda, and I\u2019m happy to be picking it up today. This is an important bill that we are talking about, the Plant Variety Rights Bill. I\u2019m incredibly supportive of this, and so is the Waitangi Tribunal, who, back in 2011, put together a report called Ko Aotearoa T\u0113nei. In that report, they noted that M\u0101ori have a special right and privilege to be able to access taonga, and we consider taonga to be things like plant varieties as well. Now, as we traverse into this space, know that this conversation has been around for a long time, so for people out there that may be listening to this debate tonight, they will be seeing it as incredibly welcoming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe stakeholders in particular that are interested in this particular plant varieties bill and the whole regime: aside from iwi and hap\u016B, you\u2019ve also got plant breeders, both local and foreign; distributors of new plant varieties, both locally and foreign bred, and products harvested from them in New Zealand; and also users of new plant varieties protected by plant variety rights (PVRs), including farmers, orchardists, and growers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ENow, once upon a time, new plant varieties and the research and development into them was absolutely the domain of Crown research institutes. They used to do the lion\u2019s share of this kind of work, but, more and more, as time has gone on, they\u2019ve been doing less of it, and there\u2019s been the introduction of commercial companies that have been coming in looking to stamp their mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EActually, M\u0101ori are part of that equation too. I want to take a moment to tell the House\u2014and yourself, Madam Speaker\u2014about a real good-news story back home in the Bay of Plenty, where I live\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3f5123c82642d7812defd81c78dd37\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Our mighty bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e98f4816d7c46088c00936234f4da9a\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014where we live! There is a collective of M\u0101ori food producers, and the one that I\u2019m referring to is an organisation, a collective, called Miro\u2014M-I-R-O. What they do is they make berries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ENow, the miro berry is a traditional berry here in New Zealand, very favoured by the kerer\u016B. Although don\u2019t eat it\u2014not those ones anyway\u2014because you will get very sick. However, the new innovative people at Miro, the collective, have actually embarked on their own little blueberry. Now, what makes this very special is that they have managed to develop the IP and they own the IP. When I say \u201Cthey\u201D, I mean the 20 M\u0101ori trusts iwi entities that are scattered all across, from the top of the North Island to the top of the South Island, from the East Coast to Taranaki on the West. There is a collective of M\u0101ori land trusts and incorporations that are currently growing Miro berries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI was fortunate enough to go for a visit to one of their sites in Te Teko, of all places. It\u2019s a hearty place, old \u201CTexas\u201D, and if you blink, you miss it, but you definitely know when you\u2019re driving through it. But, actually, if you just take a couple of roads off to the side, you\u2019ll end up in what\u2019s been transformed from what was an empty paddock with very meagre returns to, suddenly, a Miro berry orchard. And, obviously, the returns are set to be exponentially larger than what they had in those paddocks before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Miro collective and talk about them and the journey that they\u2019re on, but they will be very pleased to hear about this\u2014to know that, actually, when it comes to M\u0101ori rights and interests over our taonga species, this bill is actually looking after that. And, of course, it was off the back of the Waitangi Tribunal report\u2014Ko Aotearoa T\u0113nei\u2014in which they talked about the PVR, plant variety rights, regime. In the Wai 262 report, they recommended that the regime be amended to include the ability to refuse the grant of a PVR if this would affect kaitiaki relationships with taonga species\u2014number one. It\u2019s incredibly important, because one of the fears was that, actually, through any kind of revision of the plant variety rights regime, M\u0101ori interests would not be looked after. They will be very pleased to hear that that has been accepted and incorporated into this bill. So if kaitiaki do feel as though they are having their rights impinged upon, then they are actually able to raise concern, and they can do that through the second recommendation from the report, which was the establishment of a M\u0101ori advisory committee, in which they could advise the commissioner of PVRs on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EOver the course of this bill and its different iterations and the various consultations, we\u2019ve actually made sure that that committee\u2014that M\u0101ori advisory committee, which will deal with any kinds of infringements or any kinds of concerns that kaitiaki raise as a concern\u2014will be dealing with that. We\u2019ve given them, through the bill, decision-making powers rather than just advisory powers as well, which is also a strengthening of that relationship and, again, another example where the Crown is being a good partner with M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis is part of it, actually. Consideration around this has been around the Treaty of Waitangi, Te Tiriti, and our obligations in relation to the plant variety rights regime but also, as some speakers have already mentioned on this particular topic, our obligations under the CPTPP\u2014there are a lot of Ps in there. Obviously, we have certain obligations in that as well. Now, the current regime\u2014the plant variety rights regime\u2014is currently over 30 years old. So when you look at our obligations under Te Tiriti, our obligations under the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, and also our need to address a 30-year-old bill that needed to be hauled into the new century, that\u2019s the bill that we\u2019re discussing now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very glad that M\u0101ori rights have been considered in that. As I said, the organisation that I talked about earlier, Miro, you can better believe, with a strengthening of rights for that relationship between M\u0101ori and our taonga, will be preserved well into the future so that other organisations just like Miro will continue to be able to help realise the aspirations of their lands. Yes, it\u2019s OK if you want to have maize on your section; sure, it\u2019s nice if you want to put some corn on there; but, actually, there are some high-value horticulture products that are just as accessible and just as feasible to have on M\u0101ori land blocks all across the North Island, with the right conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EUnder the last Government, we also invested in this through the Provincial Growth Fund. Our Minister for\u2014at the time\u2014employment, skills, and development, the Hon Willie Jackson, went to Morrinsville, and he helped to launch this programme and helped to also announce the funding that we were going to put into it to help them get on their feet. I hope, well into the future, that organisations like Miro and the other \u201CMiro\u201D companies yet to come will absolutely take advantage and appreciate the work that\u2019s gone into this, the Plant Variety Rights Bill, that we\u2019re discussing at the moment. I have no problems recommending this to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51c3f640b4b4ede838c34f1e1be81c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51c3f640b4b4ede838c34f1e1be81c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Five-minute call\u2014the Hon Michael Woodhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00226fce9c670be945d3b22c1023369b4397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fce9c670be945d3b22c1023369b4397\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t think I\u2019m going to need that time, all of it, to make a few short points in support of the Plant Variety Rights Bill. I find it slightly ironic that the previous speaker talked so glowingly about the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), because he was part of a party in Opposition that fought tooth and nail against that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2666dd53db94508b451d514ac6f10e1\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: No, we didn\u2019t\u2014we signed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0422a76875d4d32ad3415acbad8479e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he signed it, he says. Oh, no, that\u2019s right. They didn\u2019t fight the CPTPP; they fought the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPPA)\u2014as if that made a blind bit of difference to the substance of the agreement. Damien O\u2019Connor is one of the experts in rewriting history. Lions in Opposition, something else in Government. One of the things that they opposed, ironically, was the undermining of our obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi, notwithstanding that there was a lock solid built-in protection for Treaty rights under that trade agreement. That should be remembered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut this is a good bill. It\u2019s important that we maintain those obligations under both the Treaty and our free-trade agreements, but I think the Government and T\u0101mati Coffey, who has just resumed his seat, could reflect, actually, on one of the iconic indigenous crops, which is k\u016Bmara. K\u016Bmara was nearly wiped out in this country due to a blight, a black rot in the 1950s, and was rescued and propagated and improved by a Chinese immigrant refugee and his wife, Joe and Fay Gock\u200B. It\u2019s a great story. I think the moral of that story is that in our efforts to provide protectionism and the property rights of certain plant varieties, we don\u2019t overlook the fact that there is contribution that can be made, from any number of people, to improving that stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThis is a really important bill, and I look forward to it going to the committee. I\u2019m not sure\u2014is it the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee who are going to consider it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022383b5d03f03a45919cad4209aee09d9a\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Economic development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9be63702ab44aa6a47ecde61704b536\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Economic development? Well, they will have, I think, an excellent dialogue with submitters, and I look forward to hearing the results of their efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002252b6f482941b437faf4eac1908d2bcec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252b6f482941b437faf4eac1908d2bcec\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Look, very pleased to rise on this bill in light of the fact that Te Paati M\u0101ori has chosen not to speak on this bill or, indeed, any other bill tonight. And I\u2019m particularly surprised that they\u2019re not speaking on this bill given that it\u2019s implementing the Wai 262 report and, in fact, making sure that New Zealand adheres to its Treaty obligations in respect of plant variety rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI mean, plant variety rights are, in fact, a property right. They\u2019re an ownership right to exclude others from the use of plant variety rights. This is a significant step forward to recognise intellectual property rights, plant variety rights, and the fact that they may be held by M\u0101ori in respect of their traditional plants and that they can exclude others from registering plant variety rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo look, I\u2019m very pleased to stand on this bill. I know the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee will do a very good job on it. I certainly hope that the M\u0101ori Party take the opportunity to sit on that committee, because they haven\u2019t spoken on this bill, and I know the committee will do a lot of work on it. I\u2019m absolutely sure that our caucus members who sit on that committee will look at it very carefully, and I\u2019m sure members from the other side will do the same. So I\u2019d invite all parties in this House to participate in the legislative process, particularly on things that relate to the constituency they claim to represent. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c97f6d4c7c324662afa7e9eb3767a463\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c97f6d4c7c324662afa7e9eb3767a463\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker, thank you. I take the opportunity to rise and talk about the Plant Variety Rights Bill. I wasn\u2019t in the House last night when this bill started to be discussed, and so I did, when I realised I was speaking tonight, think, \u201CGosh, what am I going to talk about?\u201D and took an opportunity to have a look at the previous speeches, which I can only comment to\u2014some of them are somewhat distressing to listen to. Nevertheless, I\u2019m actually going to focus tonight on what this bill actually does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI went through some of the definitions in the legislation, because I was kind of looking at it and it said \u201CUPOV convention\u201D and I wasn\u2019t sure what that meant. So, the International Convention for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants was signed in 1961, revised in \u201972, \u201978, and \u201991. Our piece of legislation that we\u2019re bringing through tonight is adding a modern focus, which also includes the Treaty of Waitangi in that aspect. So it is simply, clearly something that has been left alone for a long time and needs to be modernised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI thought to myself: \u201CWell, why is this important?\u201D And then I realised the connection that we, as people from this country, have with our plants, particularly our indigenous plants. I would hate to think that someone out there was able to take a taonga species\u2014say, the silver fern, which we have here in Aotearoa\u2014and take it overseas and use it. So I was kind of thinking, \u201COK, what\u2019s our connection?\u201D And, certainly for me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6147636bb59413eb47fe73424e39026\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Talk us through the kiwifruit story!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e900aec05c6542f4aa3b92b47fe3f98d\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to bring my kiwifruit story to the fore in a second, but, first of all, I wanted to talk about a personal connection to a plant that I have, and a story about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a Zontian. I belong to a group called Zonta, and we have what is called the Zonta rose. Now, that was bred in 1983 by the\u2014and I\u2019ll just read this out\u2014Harkness Roses of England. They cultivated and gifted a rose to Zonta International. Now, Zonta International, this beautiful yellow rose, was an idea that New Zealand came up with. Val Webster, who\u2019s, sadly, passed away, created this concept, and it became a worldwide symbol, and it was gifted to us. It\u2019s important to me to talk about this because this rose is\u2014the Zontian day is 8 March, which is International Women\u2019s Day. So I think, when we talk about the sort of esoteric intellectual property rights of plants, we also talk about the connection that we, as people from Aotearoa, people from this country, have with different plants. So I just wanted to raise that, and then here is my kiwifruit story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EOf course, you may know that I am from the Bay of Plenty, based in the Bay of Plenty, and we have this fabulous kiwifruit industry, where 80 percent of all kiwifruit that is grown in this country comes from the Bay of Plenty. We have 2,792 grower/producers. We have 150 million trays, and our trade is worth $2.967 billion per annum gross. So this is something that both has emotional connection, from my own community, but it also has that hugely important financial benefit. So, thinking about plant variety rights, this is about the protection of the exploitation of our rights with plants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EIt is important to remember that people can still experiment, home growers can do the things that they want to do, but this is about the intellectual property that protects and maintains some of our trade industries, but it is also particularly important to remember that we also look at taonga species. We also look at the rights under the Treaty of Waitangi around the kaitiaki rights. So where we have particularly some of our plants that are what we call our taonga species\u2014an example of that may be the kauri tree\u2014where we have that, someone might take some seeds, create a kauri tree and then take that genetic detail, that genetic breed, overseas and claim it as their own. That is something that we in this country do not want to have happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo the bill itself is quite detailed. It\u2019s quite thorough in its exploration of these terms\u2014what a breeder means; all sorts of things like that. I think it is going to be a particularly interesting time in the select committee, one of which I won\u2019t be sitting on, unfortunately. But I do think that we are particularly going to have a good and useful conversation, and I think, when we talk about taonga species, the rights of kaitiaki, when we talk about the way that we as a group of New Zealanders come to understand our ownership of plants or our protection of and our connection with plants, I think it\u2019s a conversation well worth having.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ELike I say, 1991, when this was last looked at\u2014I\u2019m really pleased to see that, in fact, we will be having a good conversation, a conversation that, hopefully, people can take the politics out of and talk about how we as a nation need to protect our rights for business, our rights for breeding, and our indigenous rights to our own genomes, in terms of our plant species. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f79ab5fbedaf44f0b5c777f693c39179\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f79ab5fbedaf44f0b5c777f693c39179\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Plant variety rights doesn\u2019t sound like the most invigorating subject to be debating on a Wednesday night, but, actually, I want to make a point, whether it is for our economy, whether it\u2019s for our science sector, and I also want to give a very strong example for the environment as to why this bill is important. It\u2019s really easy for members of Parliament to give speeches about the importance of innovation and all of that, but, actually, it\u2019s about getting good laws that provide the right incentives for people to invest in research and help New Zealand secure high future living standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe two focuses we should have in this bill are, firstly, making sure that property rights for those that innovate are secure, and, secondly, that we keep the costs and the bureaucracy down, because over and over again we see members opposite talk the talk of wanting to innovate but then create barriers and red tape that will harm innovation and our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI come from a region of New Zealand that generates billions of dollars of wealth in horticultural products. The part we need to understand about New Zealand horticulture is that we\u2019re not able to compete on price. We have to compete on innovation and quality. The cost of getting our apples, our kiwifruit, our hops, our berry fruit to other parts of the world is so much more than for those that are close to the major markets of North America, Europe, and Asia. Our labour, rightly, is more expensive than what it is in many countries, and so the whole future of our $6 billion a year horticulture industry relies on innovation and how we protect plant variety rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think New Zealanders appreciate the degree to which those plants variety rights are so important. Take an industry like apples and the development of the Braeburn apple, then the Envy, and then the Ambrosia: every one of those new varieties gives New Zealand apples an edge for a period of between five and 10 years before other markets catch up. Exactly the same is true of kiwifruit and the work that is being done around gold kiwifruit that is the key to it being competitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the good part of this bill is in terms of the implementation of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, and members on this side of the House strongly support it. And I have to say members on this side of the House are not fair-weather friends to trade rules; we are consistent friends. I just look at members opposite who ran up and down the main streets of Christchurch and Nelson raging against the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPP), changed its title, and then said it\u2019s the best thing since sliced bread. Well, I\u2019m sorry; that is so flaky and really does show the differences. The interesting part is that this Parliament was only able to ratify that significant global trade agreement because the National Party was not prepared to play politics over New Zealand\u2019s trade interests and actually gave members opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a90cd7d3a7432b83169671edce2b18\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224072d7c47bda4a67b864ff98158c8cb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I say to Mr Nash: how did the last Government get the numbers to ratify the TPP\u2014because the Greens wouldn\u2019t vote for it. The only reason it made it through this Parliament was because the National Party put the interests of the country ahead of those of the politics. I can recall Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson marching up main street Auckland\u2014Queen Street\u2014and raging against that agreement, and here we have a law that is implementing it and doing so, and I am pleased that we are part of that agreement. I am pleased that we\u2019re in this agreement. Why is it so important? Because plant variety rights in domestic law have no value unless they are internationally recognised. International agreements are required to protect that sort of intellectual property. It is a significant change that in this bill we are increasing the plant variety rights out to the period of 25 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spoken on what is good in this bill. I now want to express some concern about what is wrong with this bill, and that is with the new M\u0101ori Plant Varieties Committee effectively having a veto, a decision-making, not advisory, role in relation to anybody who wishes to register a plant variety right. The reason that is of concern and goes beyond the recommendations of the Waitangi Tribunal in the Wai 262 claim is that it creates significant uncertainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet me just give a practical example. Members opposite talk about indigenous species being kaitiaki for M\u0101ori. Will members opposite tell me which of New Zealand\u2019s 10,000 algae have kaitiaki rights? There are 10,000 different varieties of algae. Section 6 of this bill says that all those algae are covered by \u201Cplant varieties\u201D, interestingly, the way that \u201Cplant\u201D is defined. Members might say, \u201CWell, why does that matter?\u201D Well, let me tell you why it matters. Every member of this House would know that one of the most significant challenges we face is climate change. Equally, this Parliament knows that one of the biggest challenges of that is that about half of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions come from agriculture, and one of the most interesting scientific projects that offers us hope of a solution for our agricultural industries is the work that is going on on Asparagospis armata, which is an algae that has the capacity to reduce agricultural emissions by 95 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, there are private investors that are putting millions of dollars into understanding how you might grow, how you might attract the proteins, how you might be able to safely feed that to animals and solve one of the biggest scientific problems our country has: how do we grow agricultural products without greenhouse gases? But here\u2019s my question. How would the investors in that project know whether the M\u0101ori Plant Varieties Committee, that\u2019s being established under this bill, will determine that it\u2019s a taonga and so they can\u2019t get plant variety rights over all of their investment? There is just no understanding from members opposite of the level of uncertainty that is created when you provide that sort of veto. Why would people invest when the extra uncertainty is added? I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a member of this House that would be able to tell me which of our 10,000 algae species might meet the test that is required in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe problem with this Government is that they give lip service to the issues of innovation. They block the development\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe94b90158f440bab7ddf61ddec1d969\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258193b8ecb264c86a7566a41aa4e4fc8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I ask Mr Nash, why is it that this Government will not review the biotechnology laws as has been recommended by officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04f09789ee34ecaa1e84514114eb834\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve invested more into science, research, and technology than that Government did in nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230b15ea69cce4d35b00e3531c9e36326\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t want to answer the question. It is legislative uncertainty of the sort that is proposed in this bill that is actually going to undermine investment in the sort of innovation that\u2019s so critical in an area like plant variety rights. The truth is that National has no difficulty with a M\u0101ori advisory committee that is able to provide advice. But the decisions about which plant varieties are registered, and the property rights that are respected, should treat all New Zealanders equally, and those decisions should be made by the Government. Of course, M\u0101ori should have an opportunity to have a say, but there is an enormous difference between having a say and having a veto, and when I give an example like the use of native algae for the purposes of an issue like greenhouse gas emissions, actually, it\u2019s in the interests of not just our economy but of our environment and of science that we\u2019re able to create greater certainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is a classic example of this Government not understanding the impacts on business, on investment, on both the economic and environmental issues that this country challenges. They are so carried away with their rhetoric that we get bills of this sort that need to be repaired, and my hope is that at select committee we may be able to reconsider some of the provisions in this bill that are flawed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022393d8585e0484646bcaca71bb9b4d8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022393d8585e0484646bcaca71bb9b4d8a5\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, you can say that I\u2019ve been on quite the journey in the last 48 hours. When I found out that I was going to speak on this bill, to be honest, this is quite a subject matter that was foreign to me. So I started to read all of the notes and I realised what we were doing as a party, as a Government, was something that was so fundamental in the structure that we see plant variety rights in this country. But then it wasn\u2019t until this afternoon, when I was ready to come into this House for this debate, that one of my friends, Jaxon, stopped me in my tracks to tell me his story to this bill. I was quite shocked that we had someone in this building who actually had a personal connection to this bill, and let me tell you his story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EHis family are all plant breeders and so actually their siblings\u2014I think, if I remember correctly there are three\u2014each has a plant variety named after them. So his name is Jaxon, so he has the Jaxon Blue plant named after him\u2014and I think that is so neat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWhat happened was that under the current plant variety rights system at the moment, their family applied to have their variety and their intellectual property (IP) protected, but it was so complicated that they had actually to engage an agent to do it for them. But what happened was that that agent actually tricked them and then put his own name under the ownership of IP of that plant variety. So when I hear colleagues on the other side of the House say that we are hindering innovation, that\u2019s just absolutely untrue. We\u2019re hoping we\u2019re helping plant breeders in this country to truly protect their IP in this industry by modernising the regime so that it is up to a 21st century standard so that the digital system and the digital registry that we will hold will actually make it easier for every single plant breeder in this nation to protect their IP, to keep innovating, and to have the confidence in the system we have in this country to stand by it and to do well in this industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pride to be part of a party that protects our plant breeders\u2019 rights and it gives me great pleasure to stand in support of a bill which actually makes everyone\u2019s lives a little bit easier. Right now, I just wanted to talk a little bit about, as a migrant, how proud I am that this bill will support our Te Tiriti obligations. I often get asked by my community why, as a migrant, we should be so passionate or why am I so passionate about tikanga M\u0101ori. My reply has always been that Te Ao M\u0101ori, the world views that M\u0101ori people have built up on this land, are so rooted on the land that we stand on. They have wisdom built up from generations to teach us how to interact properly with this land that we stand on. And so through that wisdom, we\u2019re able to make the best of this land, but also we are able to best protect this land as well. That\u2019s something as a migrant community we need to do, but I believe all of New Zealand needs to be able to do as well. And so through the inbuilt mechanism of this bill and the authority of the commissioner that we will set up and we will continue to support, they will be able to have the legislative\u2014and also the authority to make rulings on which plants we do need to protect in line with tikanga M\u0101ori and I think that is something so incredibly precious to our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EFinally, I just wanted to end on the fact that I think it\u2019s really, really important that we have the support of industry. As a member of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, I really look forward to hearing all the submissions because I believe there will be lots and lots of submitters who are absolutely passionate about what they do in the sector or in the line of plant breeding. I really look forward to seeing a lot of the products that they have come out with\u2014absolute ingenuity. Some of them will be quite humorous. I look forward to all of the different names. I look forward to a lot of different types of plant breeding and all the beautiful plants that they will be able to show to us. But what I will end on is a quote from the New Zealand Plant Breeding and Research Association in regards to this bill. They say that \u201CPlant breeders are pleased to see the Plant Variety Rights Bill introduced into Parliament this week. The current legislation is some 34 years old and dates back to 1987.\u201D So I really look forward to working on modernising this regime and look forward to working with the select committee and all of our submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223061c9b7a1d142b5a083a656077cdf57\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E That the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati Maori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000690\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question,Plant Variety Rights Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000691\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a95a6056cf9d40b5a497b4a2c9b576d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a95a6056cf9d40b5a497b4a2c9b576d1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Plant Variety Rights Bill be considered by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a03f92c4f1cd453abe3281b73666a348\u0022\u003EHolidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002242c727be86c2447598b6b790842b2390\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00223c5862423d80424eb8ef4b9118ac333e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c5862423d80424eb8ef4b9118ac333e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a3687b48354dbe9a8331813855e7eb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd7e75da5224e5d88046076021e8c89\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI am very pleased this evening that with the third reading of this bill, and, God willing, its passage before the end of the night, this Government will be delivering on one of its election commitments. That is the commitment to make sure that workers across New Zealand have a decent and adequate entitlement for sick leave for themselves, and their dependants, of 10 days per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EHaving come out of the year of COVID, one of our learnings has been about the need to make sure that people have adequate sick leave, and I\u2019ll speak shortly about why that is so important. I want to start off, though, with a brief comment about why this bill is so important in the context of the Government\u2019s broader agenda for workplace relations. It is my vision as Minister\u2014and this Government\u2019s policy\u2014to achieve workplaces that are fair, safe, and productive, and to build up a framework across our workplaces in which those principles are mutually reinforcing. We don\u2019t see that those things conflict against each other, as has sometimes been the case in our past. We believe workplaces in which workers are treated fairly will be workplaces in which it\u2019s safer for everyone and will be workplaces in which it is more productive, as well. This piece of legislation fits very well within that context because it\u2019s about recognising the fundamental needs of workers to look after their health and recognising that there are benefits in that for the broader workplace and for the business that is concerned, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOver the course of this debate, we have seen the differences in approach between the two sides of the House, and this came out most forwardly in the committee stage of the debate yesterday when we heard from the National Party a very negative, backwards-looking, low-road approach to employment relations. We were told that with the passage of this bill, workers en masse, apparently, will look to rip off the system and take sick leave up to the maximum, regardless of whether they are sick or not. We were told that employers en masse, apparently, will discriminate against women and people with dependants if this is passed. Well, on this side of the House\u2014I said this yesterday and I\u2019ll repeat it again\u2014we have a much more optimistic view of the way that employees and employers treat each other in this country, and our ability to make sure that everyone is treated fairly and to have productive workplaces all at once. As I say, we don\u2019t see those things as being in contradiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn fact, yesterday we saw from the National Party a Supplementary Order Paper that would have actually cut\u2014actually cut\u2014from the current legal minimum of five days the sick leave for part-time workers who have less than 2\u00BD days of work per week. What kind of thinking leads you to that after a year of a global pandemic like COVID-19? I can\u2019t even imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut for us, as I said, this is about making sure that we have adequate sick leave entitlements for the benefit of workers and of workplaces, and for the broader public health interest. For workers, this is simple and this is so important that it bears repeating: this is about people being treated with sufficient dignity that when they are unwell, that when they are sick, they are able to take sufficient time to get well again. That they don\u2019t feel forced into coming into work. That they don\u2019t feel pressured into coming to work. They are able to stay at home and recover for their health and their wellbeing. I will go on to talk about some of the broader benefits and the productivity enhancements that we believe do flow from this bill, but, at its core, there is something here about how we treat people. I believe that people who are sick should be afforded the ability to be at home, within reason, so that they can recover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is also about the broader workplace. It\u2019s about the fact that, again, after the year of COVID\u2014how many times do we have to learn and relearn this? We don\u2019t want people who are sick coming in to work, not just for their own benefit but for the health and wellbeing of the people that they work with. People who are sick spread illness to others in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI reflected yesterday in the debate that we are beginning to build up evidence on record that over the course of the year, many workplaces have had reduced sick leave need because people have been staying at home. It\u2019s very simple: this is about looking after the worker who is sick and their workmates, and, more broadly, this is also about the public health interest. In an era in which we are acutely aware of how communicable diseases can spread, it is surely more important than ever that we move past that old-time culture of just toughing it out, because if we continue with that, then we put ourselves at risk, not just at the workplace level but at the level of our communities and our society, of the spread of illnesses like COVID and other illnesses. We cannot possibly want that. The long-term implications of that not just for individuals and community and their wellbeing but for our economy are profound. So this is so important that people do have the right to adequate sick leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI said in my first reading speech that that culture of toughing it out is quite embedded. It\u2019s certainly something that I\u2019ve done and I\u2019m pretty sure that other members around the Chamber have done, but, increasingly, I think New Zealanders and employers recognise that it is not the way ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been encouraged over the course of this debate by how many people recognise the value of this policy. Of course, there have been people who have a different view. That happens whenever we have a change. But I recognise people like Michael Barnett from the Auckland Chamber of Commerce, who said that this is not just better for employees\u2019 wellbeing, but it\u2019s better for the workplace as well. He encouraged opponents of the bill to look at the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere was an excellent comment from Jane Kennelly, a director at Frog Recruitment, and she spoke about her experience in her business of offering not just 10 days\u2019 sick leave per year but unlimited sick leave, flexible sick leave. She said when she offered unlimited sick leave in her business, \u201Cpeople thought staff would take leave willy-nilly. But quite the opposite happened. We were well below the average just because there was an element of trust.\u201D, and that\u2019s right\u2014isn\u2019t that the thing? When we treat people with trust and respect and when people don\u2019t have to worry about whether they\u2019ll have enough sick leave to get through the next illness that they have or their dependants have, you can build more trusting relationships between the employees and the employers, and that\u2019s where we want to take it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe Government will be there as well. We\u2019ve stepped up over the last year to support employers and employees with the COVID-19 Leave Support Scheme and the COVID-19 short-term absence payments. We\u2019re not leaving employers and employees to their own devices; we will be there to support them where necessary, but let\u2019s make sure that, fundamentally, people have adequate sick leave in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank everyone who has participated in the passage of this bill so far. To those members of the select committee, who ran a very good select committee process; to the officials who have worked hard over the last six months on their piece of legislation, noting that this was one of the first pieces of legislation introduced by the new Government when we came into office at the end of last year; and to all of those people who have submitted and given their views on this bill, whatever those views were, I respect and thank them for that contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe bill that the select committee sent back to the House and that we are considering today is a simple bill. It increases the entitlement from five days to 10 days per year for employees. It\u2019s a bill in which we have tried to retain a balance. We have listened to the voices of employers, who have asked us to make sure that any changes that we do make are able to be implemented with a reasonable time frame. Therefore, the commencement of this bill will occur two months after Royal assent and the increases to entitlement will occur on employee anniversary dates\u2014not all at once in one go\u2014and that will enable payroll systems to adapt to the system. So we have tried to take a balanced approach to make sure that these provisions can be efficiently implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs I move towards closing my comments this evening, I return to that broader vision that we have for workplaces in New Zealand\u2014that is, workplaces in which we have fairness, safety, and productivity and in which those things rest upon one another and reinforce one another. The Government has a much broader agenda that I am very proud of and that we will be making progress on over the course of this term. We\u2019ve announced fair pay agreements recently. We\u2019ll be moving forward with making sure we have an adequate health and safety system to keep people safe in the workplace. But this reform early on in our term speaks to those values. It speaks to valuing people, making sure that they have the dignity to be well in their own lives. It speaks to looking after other people in the workplace. It speaks to the broader benefits of making sure that illness doesn\u2019t spread, reducing productivity and causing carnage, potentially, across our communities and our societies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI am very proud that our Government so early in our term has kept our commitment to follow through on this piece of legislation. It speaks to our values. It speaks to our vision with the employment relations system. It speaks to some of the lessons that we have learnt over the course of COVID-19. I thank everyone for their contribution to this important piece of legislation, and this evening I am very happy, as a promise kept, to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00227c0a43f971654e29ad22cc388769e2a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c0a43f971654e29ad22cc388769e2a2\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve listened carefully to the Minister\u2019s contributions at several stages of this legislation now, and, as I did the first time I heard him, I remain utterly unconvinced of his argument. This is a bill that he has correctly identified as being an election commitment made by the parliamentary Labour Party, deeply connected to the trade union movement and their influencers. He speaks about the future and a bright and rosy nirvana for industrial relations in this country, but the unions want to take us back\u2014back to a time when there was conflict and when there was disharmony and when there was even lower productivity than we have now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat the Minister didn\u2019t speak about at all was the cost and who pays. So the cost has been estimated by his own officials at the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to be a billion dollars a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f7d59bed164cc281525ca3f099c062\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5cd0dffabe4015ada99fa827a60505\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: A billion dollars a year, Mr Luxon. So that\u2019s a billion dollars a year, or nearly 1 percent of the nation\u2019s total payroll, that this Government is foisting upon business in a way that produces nothing more. So the Minister talks blithely about a view of the world that is rosy and bright but doesn\u2019t match reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ELast night, we heard him in the committee of the whole House speaking about the world that he saw. Well, he clearly has no understanding of how business operates or how some people and some employees operate. I don\u2019t think there are many\u2014in fact, they usually roll out one, the only member of the Labour Party caucus who is a business person. It\u2019s a small business somewhere in the South Island. They roll this person out very regularly, and then the rest of the time it\u2019s the trade union delegates that get up and speak. So what happens is that you have a Government party that is utterly and totally disconnected from the reality of the commercial world and totally disconnected from the reality of day-to-day pressures, particularly on small businesses trying to cope already with the challenges that the last 12 months and COVID have provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThat brings me to another point. The rationale for this legislation has actually been COVID. This is a bill that\u2019s been brought in under the cover of COVID. Actually, if it was supposedly the cover of COVID that this bill was set to achieve its objectives, then surely it would have made sense for this bill to have a finite and limited time frame. But, no, this is the Government using COVID to introduce long-held views about employees and trade union objectives, long held and long sought by their influencers. Now, I don\u2019t think that that\u2019s going to deliver for New Zealand employees, it\u2019s certainly not going to deliver for New Zealand employers, and it\u2019s going to be, ultimately, bad for productivity, and we already have a huge problem with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EGreg Harford is the chief executive of the Retail New Zealand organisation, and they represent thousands of businesses, and literally tens of thousands of people work in those retail businesses. Greg Harford came on behalf of his organisation to select committee and said that up to 20 percent of people working in retail are actually part-timers. That whole issue about part-timers has been a crucial element of debate and discussion and an unresolved issue in relation to this bill, and it relates to what\u2019s referred to as prorating. So this bill seeks to give people who are employed an extra five days a year of sick leave. Now, that may be well and good for people who are employed on the old-fashioned 40 hours a week, five days a week kind of concept that the Labour Party\u2019s rose-tinted glasses seem to think that most New Zealanders are still employed by. The reality is, of course, that employment and economic circumstances have changed, and the way people are employed has changed as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EGreg Harford from Retail New Zealand points out that a lot of the people who work part time do so because they want to, because it suits them, or because it fits in with their lifestyle and what they want to achieve. So for an employer now who employs somebody one day a week, they\u2019re going to have to give that one-day-a-week person 10 days\u2019 annual sick leave\u201410 days. So if a person works one day a week\u2014arguably, about 50 days a year\u201410 of those days can be taken as sick leave. But here\u2019s the rub: if that person then has another job for a second day of that week with a second employer, they get another 10 days of annual sick leave\u2014another 10 days of sick leave. If, heaven forbid, they work for five different entities over five different days, then you do the maths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo the reality of this has yet to sink into the Government. They just don\u2019t get it, and they don\u2019t get it because they\u2019re not connected with the reality of day-to-day business, particularly small businesses. They simply don\u2019t have any understanding of it. So this lack of ability to prorate is already a problem, but it\u2019s exacerbated massively by extending this to 10 days a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo we come back to the issue of what is a prudent, careful, responsible employer going to do when they start to look at candidates for a new job. Last night, the Minister rejected my saying this because he seems to think that everybody lives in peace and harmony and sweetness, and light descends upon everything. Well, the grim reality is that that is not the case. That is not the case for all employers and it\u2019s not the case for all employees, and so what the Government is, effectively, asking business people to do is to, essentially, underwrite the good health of employees\u2019 children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe reason for that is simple. It\u2019s because, often, sick leave is taken in support of dependent children, and that happens with quite frequent regularity. There\u2019s nothing particularly wrong with it, but when an employer is looking at two candidates and one candidate for a new job has no children and one candidate has a number of children, that employer is going to be thinking in their head, \u201CWhat is the risk to my business and to the productivity of my business, the profitability, to the competitiveness of my business if I take the candidate with multiple children versus the one that doesn\u2019t?\u201D\u2014that assumes, of course, that those are candidates of the same background, the same experience, the same talent, and the same ability to do the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI put it to the Government that, actually, businesses will do what they need to do to remain competitive and to remain profitable, and they will structure their business affairs in a way that achieves profitability and competitiveness. In some businesses, what will happen\u2014and this is the case that Retail New Zealand have made and other submitters made to the select committee. What they will end up doing is actually not employing part-timers as frequently or in such numbers as they used to do. That will have a negative effect on people who want and seek part-time employment, but it also means that in terms of changing the way they do business, there will be businesses who simply automate out of their business a whole range of jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThey will do that, and we\u2019ve seen that in so many business sectors already, and when what Governments like this Labour-led Government do is just foist more cost, more red tape\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd4c55ea56a4fbe8508c8f43075c8d4\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: A billion dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260d75d6bc24543289df5ae0f98c7d654\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014upon businesses\u2014Mr Luxon says a billion dollars, and we shouldn\u2019t forget it. It\u2019s a billion dollars a year of added cost. They foist that upon businesses. Well, the Government can\u2019t reasonably expect, then, businesses not to react in a way that is going to adapt and adopt their business to remain competitive and profitable, and that will be the outcome. It will actually be fewer jobs\u2014particularly for part-timers\u2014and it will be less opportunity, particularly for those employees who seek jobs if they have dependent children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo these are the practical realities, and it\u2019s got nothing to do with a jaundiced view of the world, as the Minister likes to characterise it. It\u2019s a simple reality of business, of commerce, and of human nature. So I make no apology on this side of the House for us opposing this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIf the Government was genuine and sincere about using COVID as their cover for introducing this legislation\u2014and remember, this legislation was introduced under urgency, sent to select committee for a truncated select committee process over a summer period, and it has represented the very worst of process and the worst of doctrinaire, ideologically driven, centralised thinking from a Labour Government, socialist at heart, trade union in their history, in their politics, and in their view of the world. We on this side of the House have a fondness for business, for creating jobs, for creating opportunity, and for creating employment for New Zealanders who want to work and be productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022654caec9b5be4dbab7dcf21593ff55dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654caec9b5be4dbab7dcf21593ff55dc\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Well, my goodness me, Mr Simpson. Why on earth is it that that member has so much disregard and distrust for the working people of New Zealand? To stand there and assume that because we\u2019re increasing sick days from five days to 10 days, employees are going to be so distrustful and they are going to rip the system something shocking\u2014I honestly cannot believe it. I cannot fathom that Mr Simpson is stuck in his 1950s\u2019 world view of employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ENow, as an employer and a small-business owner, I welcome this change. I welcome this change because, quite frankly, I would far rather have staff members staying away when they are unwell than coming into work, spreading their illness\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a091bb05cfa44b4bb9ee94d06a56ff33\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: At least you have some experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022993ce0dac7a24805912dbbf6ef27c092\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which, in turn\u2014Mr Bishop\u2014means that more staff take more time off, therefore costing more in productivity, and there is the financial cost to the employer if all staff members are heading away on sick leave all the time. Just because sick leave is increased to 10 days per annum, it does not mean that every staff member is going to take their 10 days\u2019 sick leave all at once, all in the same week, all on the same day. However it might sound, I just can\u2019t comprehend what it is the Opposition are trying to say. What this does is it allows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7bfbddcc114922bce6546daecef9d3\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you listen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38c4aa44429491da8dc7633dbd126ca\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member has something worth listening to, then I would listen, but there is no argument worth listening to from that side of the House. What this does is it ensures that employees will not come to work sick, spreading their bugs, and therefore affect the productivity of the business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EIn fact, if you think about it, we compare ourselves quite often with Australia, and they actually, over there, provide 10 days\u2019 leave per year for workers. We\u2019re probably one of the few countries in the OECD that do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESo I stand here very proudly as a small-business owner from the South Island supporting this piece of legislation. I think it is fantastic. It is perfect timing, and I commend the Minister for bringing this piece of legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00226cb86f72a2654730a95645fda655d8fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cb86f72a2654730a95645fda655d8fb\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to take an unexpected call on the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, I can kind of understand the rationale for this. The Government wants to improve the sick leave approach and give people an extra five days, doubling it\u2014yeah, OK, I understand that. But it\u2019s really easy to pass a piece of legislation imposing cost on someone else, and this is one of the biggest issues I have with the Government, with their raft of legislation they\u2019ve been putting through. It is the unintended consequences, and when you have a business community that are having to step up to the plate here because, quite frankly, it is only businesses who will be picking up this cost\u2014$1 billion a year of increased costs on businesses. We\u2019ve been through an incredibly challenging period over the last 12 or so months with COVID and there have been businesses that have really struggled through that period. Some haven\u2019t made it. Others have done really well, but, actually, it has been an incredibly challenging time for business owners. Regardless of their particular industry or whether they\u2019ve done well or not, the uncertainty created by COVID has been incredibly stressful. Alongside that, we\u2019ve seen, firstly, last year, an increase in the minimum wage, and then again this year, a further increase in the minimum wage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebbda7d62e2d44c3994b203abd770909\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Whoo!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858acf6fc45a498588dad241f37cfaac\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the other side are saying, \u201CGreat, fantastic!\u201D Well, yes, but who\u2019s picking up that cost? It\u2019s not the Government covering that, actually; it\u2019s businesses having to pick up that cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThis is the fundamental point the Government just don\u2019t seem to understand\u2014that businesses do not just have an endless bank account. There are hard-working business owners all around the country struggling every day to make a real go of their passion, of their interest, in whatever industry it is. They\u2019ve had the innovation, the entrepreneurship, the drive to go out and create their own piece of paradise in New Zealand, and good on them for doing that because we are incredibly lucky to have such a strong business community in New Zealand. I think they\u2019d really appreciate a bit more support from this Government. This sort of legislation bringing in an extra five days\u2019 sick leave is just a step too far on top of all those other measures that I\u2019ve just mentioned, including now we\u2019re hearing about another public holiday as well, and that\u2019s a direct cost straight to business owners, as well. It\u2019d just be great if we could see from this Government a bit more consideration for the impact their legislation has on business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThe consultation period, as well, through this bill was very poor. Like we\u2019ve seen on a number of pieces of legislation, the select committee process hasn\u2019t been adequate. There hasn\u2019t been sufficient opportunity for New Zealanders to actually have their say, to engage in the democratic process and share their views, because, quite frankly, we don\u2019t have all the answers here in Wellington. We rely on the likes of those business owners to share their views on what the impact is for this sort of legislation, and when the other side of the House arrogantly says \u201CNo, we know best. We\u2019re not even going to have a select committee.\u201D or \u201CWe\u2019re going to have a truncated select committee process\u201D\u2014and we\u2019ve seen that many times already over this parliamentary term\u2014it\u2019s simply not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo my concern is that there are going to be unintended consequences from this, and look, I have absolute confidence that there are, by and large, across most businesses fantastic relationships between the employer and the employees. That leads to a successful business and, as a previous business owner, I can understand that. We have those solid relationships. That is the foundation of a good business. But there are times when those relationships get exploited, and the risk here is that that is pushing additional cost directly on to business owners, and, quite frankly, it\u2019s disappointing to see that from the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo we are not supporting this. We would have liked to have seen a very different approach to it, but, unfortunately, the Government has the numbers. They\u2019ll push it through as they see fit, and my concern is how many businesses are going to look at this along with the other minimum wage increases, the additional public holidays coming, the extra cost of compliance, and regulatory changes, and just say \u201CActually, this is all too hard. It\u2019s too hard to be a business owner in New Zealand.\u201D, and that, for me, would be the real tragedy. So I\u2019d really encourage the Government to consider that with their subsequent pieces of legislation and see if they can actually give business owners in New Zealand a better deal. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022802285d4d0c445b3890265d5ce0f5268\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022802285d4d0c445b3890265d5ce0f5268\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take this short call to speak on this very, very important bill. But before I do so, I just want to comment on Mr Simpson\u2019s statement that this is something that\u2019s being pushed by a trade union movement. This Government, from day one, made it clear that it\u2019s going to support hard-working New Zealanders, and this is where it\u2019s coming from. When he talks about the union movement in a way that\u2019s so dismissive, he\u2019s talking about 400,000 New Zealand employees, and it\u2019s a shame that he\u2019s talking about them in the way that they\u2019re some sort of\u2014I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI also want to thank Minister Wood for the good work that he has been doing not just on this bill but the good work that he\u2019s doing to support the hard-working Kiwis. Thank you, Minister, for everything that you\u2019re doing, because this is the message that I\u2019m getting from every hard-working cleaner, security guard, caregiver\u2014they can\u2019t thank you enough. Please keep up the good work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EA lot has been said about the sick leave increase. We\u2019ve heard a lot of compelling testimonies and evidence from workers\u2019 unions and the stakeholders, and a lot are in support. We also heard some counterarguments as well. That\u2019s something that we respect. About 400 people have submitted on this bill and we thank them for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EOur hard-working people have been undermined for the last nine years of the National Government. There was a lot of frustration and a lack of support. But, thankfully, this Government has stepped up and rolled out the COVID-19 wage subsidy, and a lot of them managed to stay home when they were sick, when they were unwell, or they managed to stay home when their loved ones were vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis bill is not designed to only support the working people; it also will benefit businesses. Employees turning up to work when they\u2019re sick is going to infect others, and that\u2019s a loss for the employer, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI will share one story about myself. In 2012, I was working at Victoria University as a cleaner, and I was sick with a bug. I called the supervisor to tell him that I was sick, and he said, \u201CYou don\u2019t have enough sick leave and you have to come to work.\u201D I don\u2019t blame him, because it\u2019s the rule\u2014it\u2019s the law. I ended up coming in. The next day, three people were off. They were sick, and that was just from my team. There were other people from other teams as well. This is a real story. I have no reason to lie about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAll businesses are doing this already and they are happy. Things are productive for them and things are working for them. Various studies show that having healthy and happy and valued employees is good for business. In fact, the Australian survey suggested that the healthiest workers who use sick leave when they need it are up to nearly three times as productive, and they\u2019re less likely to take time off than the least healthy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI just want to ask people who are opposing this\u2014I caution. I just want to ask them if they ever have a family member who is staying in a care facility who is being looked after by caregivers, and then I want them to ask that worker if their loved one supports that worker having enough sick leave, or 10 days\u2019 sick leave, is good or bad. I will just leave it there, because the answer will be quite obvious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EPreparing for this, I\u2019ve been talking to a few people, and one of the people that I have talked to was Lulu, who is a proud E t\u016B member and a cleaner. Lulu has got a sick son who needs a lot of care. She doesn\u2019t have enough sick leave. If she is sick, she has to turn up to work, because if she does not, she\u2019s not going to get paid. That means she can\u2019t afford food and she can\u2019t afford medication for her son.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EInequality levels in this country have been getting worse every day. Hard-working Kiwis have been undermined, they have been forgotten: people like Shirley, people like Helen, people like Elizabeth\u2014cleaners, security guards\u2014people like Rosella, who\u2019s a caregiver. These people deserve better than this. This will make a difference in their lives and the lives of their loved ones. Let\u2019s tell them thank you for the good work that they have done for us last year and that they continue to do. The least we can say is thank you and allow them to stay home when they are sick or when their family members are sick\u2014this is the least we can do for them. On that note, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228731c6b254294ea89e4665c06e6b7a64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228731c6b254294ea89e4665c06e6b7a64\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m really pleased to rise to take a call on behalf of the Green Party for the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. I have been following this through the House, and I\u2019ve got to admit that I feel slightly conflicted today. On one hand, extending sick leave to 10 days as a minimum is just so long overdue, and we\u2019ve been hearing the evidence of the harm of limited sick leave in terms of people turning up to work sick or actually forgoing the income because they take unpaid sick leave, and struggling to pay their rent, and the stress that that\u2019s put on families and communities. We\u2019ve also heard of people not having enough sick leave to be able to care for their children when they\u2019re sick and they leave their jobs as a result of that, which is harming our workplaces as well as our families and our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is so overdue, and when I hear from the Opposition about the cost to employers around this, one, I just don\u2019t hear them understanding that, actually, there\u2019s a cost to employers of people coming to work sick or having to leave their job because they cannot manage their sickness and their employment because they don\u2019t have enough paid leave. I don\u2019t hear the modern employment approach coming from that side of the House around having understanding and trust in a workplace and how you create a positive workplace. That is none of what they\u2019re saying. All we\u2019re hearing is union bashing and a complete distrust\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa4beef459f94e9b9858407016951ffe\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299d13043cf5440b5a034d4e6a076ef97\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of people, and I\u2019m hearing their confirmation of that. The evidence is there are a lot of people who have 10 days\u2019 sick leave, who have five days\u2019 sick leave, or who have unlimited sick leave who do not take their full entitlement. That, I understand, is the norm rather than the aberration, which tells us that, actually, the norm is people do not exploit these provisions. They are exploited where there is a low-trust environment, and we actively need to work to change that, and that is one of my points of disappointment with this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do not believe and the Greens do not believe it goes far enough. We wanted to see the provision in the Employment Relations Act return to how it was before National built in this deep mistrust of employees, of enabling employers to require proof even after one day off work, without reasonable grounds. We want, if somebody is going to require you to have a sick leave, a medical certificate\u2014that\u2019s the word\u2014that, actually, they have reasonable grounds for believing that that person wasn\u2019t actually sick before we burden our health system and demonstrate that we don\u2019t trust our staff. We do not believe it\u2019s constructive for that to be the norm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe also wanted to clarify that we heard in submissions around a sense\u2014and I know case law doesn\u2019t necessarily support this. But people were telling us, around accessing sick leave for mental health reasons, that, actually, people feel that there\u2019s a barrier to that\u2014that it\u2019s not evident that it is covered by sick leave. I think that also then speaks to the fact that we don\u2019t have a purpose or a clear strategy around why we have sick leave, but, actually, sick leave is an essential part of our health and safety system. We should be recognising that when people come to work impaired due to sickness, it creates a risk in the workplace, and that when people are getting sick more often, then it can also be a sign of overwork, burnout, and stress that should be being monitored in our workplace, and employers should be accountable within the health and safety system for that. Now, none of that thinking, unfortunately, has been done, and I really think it is a challenge for us as a country, if we are wanting to improve productivity, and if we are wanting to support people to be safe in their workplaces, that we should be doing that thinking, broader than just the extension of the days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe were also disappointed at the delay in the introduction so that some workers, while we\u2019re celebrating these 10 days and talking about the importance of it really passionately in the House\u2014at least on this side\u2014won\u2019t be able to access that until around July 2022, and that, I know, for a lot of the people I\u2019ve spoken to, feels a really long way off. We have to acknowledge that people will be leaving their jobs, they will be turning up sick, and they will be feeling deeply conflicted and worried about the care of their kids for another year or more because of that balance that we heard about tonight. The Greens think, actually, that our kids and our families and the wellbeing of everyone in the workplace comes first, and we would have liked to have seen the 10 days come in right from the beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe also weren\u2019t supporting the provision in the bill\u2014and sought to amend it\u2014that will reduce the number of unused days that can be carried over. At the moment, you can carry over 15 days, and this bill reduces that to 10 days. It keeps the maximum total the same, but it reduces what people can carry over in real terms, and we didn\u2019t see the need for that trade-off. If somebody hasn\u2019t been using their leave, it\u2019s pretty clear that they\u2019re not going to be ripping anybody off. Sometimes, though, when somebody has accrued that much, it means they\u2019ve been there for a while, and if they experience a really serious illness, having that up their sleeve for them or their family can make all of the difference in keeping somebody in unemployment and regaining their health unhindered by the additional stress of financial worries, which can have a real impact on people\u2019s healing from sickness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI did just then, finally, want to talk to the point, before my final point, to just address my real concern at the narrative coming from the National Party about this legislation leading to employers discriminating against women because they will see women with and they\u2019re comparing to, I think\u2014what was the phrase? If they\u2019re being asked to underwrite the health of their employees\u2019 sick children, then when considering two job applicants, one with children and one without, the employer will choose those without children. That is, to my mind, a deeply, deeply irresponsible narrative that is justifying and validating illegal discrimination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn this country, you are not able to discriminate against people on their sex or their status, and to be saying that that is what is going to happen is de facto endorsing it and that is, I think, an appalling failure in leadership. It also doesn\u2019t make sense to me when so many of our big companies have unlimited leave and actually have a lot of women employed. They\u2019ve looked at those applicants and they\u2019ve still chosen the best person for the job, and that has not been out of fear that that person will take unlimited leave and will exploit sick leave provisions or that children will be a burden on their workplace, because they\u2019ve looked at the skills of the person and what they can contribute. I really, really just think the National Party needs to catch up to the fact that we\u2019re no longer in the 1950s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo in a final point, again, to go back to the positive of this, I want to just recognise, again, those people who right now have used up their sick leave through sickness, cold, flu, not going to work because they have not wanted to spread that to their workmates. Our experience over the last year is we\u2019ve seen the risk of people turning up to places sick, and that is a selfish act. But when somebody is doing that because they cannot afford not to, then that comes back on us as a society to make the changes necessary to enable them to stay home when they are sick, to keep all of us safe. The Greens, on that note, are very pleased, if slightly disappointed, to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022567b4b4612af46029e23d7437cccb32c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022567b4b4612af46029e23d7437cccb32c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u002291333f0342a145a5b842dd5682c38eaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291333f0342a145a5b842dd5682c38eaa\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of ACT to take a short call in opposition to this bill. The saying \u201CFlogging a dead horse\u201D springs to mind, but there are a couple of things that I\u2019d just like to mention. This bill has definitely divided people into two camps: those who think businesses can afford all of the new added costs they\u2019ve had to endure over the last few years, and those who just know they can\u2019t. I\u2019ve read and listened to those on the other side of the House say that if businesses can\u2019t afford it, they shouldn\u2019t be in business. That sort of lack of understanding comes across quite strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EJust last week, a business on Oriental Parade had to close its doors after 16\u00BD years in business. On the door was pinned a note that said, \u201CGovernment policy has seen our costs go up significantly over the last year, and we expect this to continue.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe submitters to the Education and Workforce Committee were definitely divided into two camps. We had business owners who put themselves on the line, taken the risk, and employed people. They were concerned that they just wouldn\u2019t be able to afford these additional costs. The employees who submitted were varied. Some thought they needed four weeks\u2019 sick leave; not just two. A number of employees submitted and said that they supported the bill but that it wouldn\u2019t really affect them, as they had a great relationship with their employers. What is the problem that we\u2019re actually trying to solve here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe mention of pro rata was just brushed off as if it meant nothing, but it is a very real argument. If I employ one person every Sunday, they are entitled to 10 days off\u201410 weeks off. That\u2019s just a fact\u2014that\u2019s just a fact. The suggestion that employers may just watch who they employ a little bit more carefully was dismissed. It was suggested the other day that that\u2019s going back 60 years, which is pretty close to when fair-trade agreements were around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe suggestion that employees might abuse the extra leave and just treat it as annual leave was just brushed off, as well. But that shows an amazing inability to understand how business works and it shows that members opposite actually don\u2019t speak to business owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWe compare ourselves with other countries when it comes to minimum wage, but ignore the most important factor\u2014that is, New Zealand has much, much lower productivity than all of the countries we compare ourselves with. I haven\u2019t actually been able to find the research that Minister Wood talks about that shows there is a higher productivity. I\u2019d be interested to see it, because I can\u2019t find it. To think that paying people more, giving people more holidays, and increasing sick leave will increase productivity shows a poor understanding of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EEmployees were looked after during COVID, and rightly so. Businesses were assisted in getting a loan if they needed it. Businesses had to go into debt in order for employees to have a job. This was the support that they got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe timing for this bill is very poor. Obviously union-initiated and pushed through under the cover of COVID\u2014a solution looking for a problem. Businesses need a break and at least some security in what\u2019s going to happen next. ACT opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dda7a31ebaaf4bdcb9dec292a55e7b9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dda7a31ebaaf4bdcb9dec292a55e7b9a\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m really humbled\u2014really humbled\u2014to stand and take a call on this really important piece of legislation that supports workers. Now, workers are also employers, and I\u2019m really proud to support this piece of legislation that actually addresses some of the concerns that have been raised by the other side of the House. It is absolutely wonderful to hear so much from the other side of the House about their concerns that this bill might lead to discrimination against employees. They\u2019re concerned that workers will be discriminated against: women, people who have dependants\u2014not just children, but parents, aunties, sisters, brothers\u2014and caregivers. So it\u2019s heartening to hear that the other side of the House is worried about this potential discrimination. But I call on them to have a think about having an element of trust in employers that they are actually capable of making sensible decisions about how they look after and invest in their staff, and about how they can run their businesses effectively and productively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really interesting that they talk about discrimination, because what this does is it frees so many of our workers up from discrimination, because, at the moment, the law as it stands, with only having five days, discriminates. The cost is borne mainly by women. When you only have access to five days and you are the person more likely to be doing the caring for sick children or dependants, it is because you are a woman, OK? So the discrimination with that five days, that pressure that adds when you have to decide whether or not to take unpaid leave, to quit your job, send your kids to school sick because you will not be able to pay the rent\u2014that is a cost borne by women. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt is a cost borne by those who dominate public-facing service industries: those involved in health, education, and care; home support workers\u201480 to 90 percent of them, women. Those who are in those public-facing industries are more likely to have close contact, more likely to pick up infections and more likely to pass on illness, not just to their co-workers, but to the vulnerable people that they care for in their classrooms, in their hospital wards, in their doctors\u2019 surgeries, and in vulnerable people\u2019s homes. This cost, currently, with only five days, is borne by our children. They are sent to school unwell because their parents cannot afford to take unpaid leave or to quit their jobs. Kids get dosed up with the old Pamol\u2014\u201CYou\u2019ll be right, I\u2019ll pick you up at 3 o\u2019clock.\u201D\u2014and everyone crosses their fingers and hopes for the best. Because of the cost that is being borne by these families, it is a financial cost, it is stress, and it is something that is borne by a part of our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo those children go to school and they pass the bugs on to their classmates, to their teachers, and, of course, the teachers\u2014you know, it is exacerbated by them not staying home and getting well quicker and avoiding passing those germs on. I know of young people, teenagers, who have had to take time off school at the cost of their education because they\u2019ve had to stay home and look after siblings or their grandparents because mum or dad has had to go to work because they have no sick leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt is currently our most vulnerable members of society who are bearing the true cost of the public health interest of people staying at home as we shift from the tough-it-out way that we\u2019ve done things to being supported to make decisions that keep us all safer\u2014their families and their fellow workers. The Minister has talked about having a fair, safe, and productive workplace, and I would add trust and good faith as something that the Opposition should be comfortable with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI need to thank the Minister for his leadership in helping us to work towards becoming a place globally that is seen as providing world-class pay and conditions. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b971f6e646f740dba59e9cae7aad1921\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b971f6e646f740dba59e9cae7aad1921\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Ian McKelvie\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022240834951a044fd7a04a37cd8963b49f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022240834951a044fd7a04a37cd8963b49f\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, as with my colleague Tim van de Molen in the chair next door, it is somewhat of a surprise to be taking a call on the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. I\u2019ve got to say I\u2019m a little staggered at some of the comments coming from the Government benches, mainly because I\u2019ve been an employer for much longer than any of them have\u2014quite obviously\u2014and not only have I been one for longer than them but I\u2019ve had quite a lot of experience of this sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that concerns me about the result of this bill and where it gets to\u2014there\u2019s a couple of things that concern me and I\u2019ll get on to them. One of the things that concerns me is the more we regulate the labour industry, the more we stick to the regulations. I think that\u2019s a real challenge for this whole sector in New Zealand, because if we impose regulation and legislation on industry, employers, and employees, then those regulations are going to become more and more stuck to and more and more rigid, and there\u2019ll be no tolerance left in the business\u2014and I think the point\u2019s been made a couple of times tonight already. A lot of the business of employing people and working with employees relates to tolerance and the ability to let people get on with their own lives and make sure they make the best of it. As I said a minute ago, the more we regulate and legislate, the more likely we are to stick to those legislative parameters and cause some problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing that concerns me about this bill and a number of other bills that are in the pipeline, and certainly the result of this bill as it comes to the House for its third reading, is that it\u2019s all very well to go to 10 days\u2019 sick leave and to extend the holiday that people are able to take, but the problem is all of that cost goes on to the employer. If there was another way of doing that, it may well be acceptable, but the problem with New Zealand is we have such a lot of small businesses. We\u2019ve heard a bit tonight about the productivity levels of New Zealand, and this is just going to add some further stress to the productivity level. Employment opportunities, I think, are going to get much tougher, and I think tomorrow, between 2 o\u2019clock and 3 o\u2019clock, we\u2019ll see why that\u2019s going to be, because there is a lack of confidence in our business community in New Zealand at the moment and they are nervous about what might happen. I think tomorrow will prove, probably, the reason for that nervousness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo if you lose the confidence of the employer sector in New Zealand, you\u2019ll find that the number of jobs in New Zealand drops quite quickly and quite dramatically and that would be a tragedy for New Zealand for a couple of reasons, actually. One is we\u2019d probably lose a large number of our employees to Australia\u2014and I think that\u2019s quite likely to happen\u2014and the second is our unemployment levels may well rise. Now, I\u2019m not saying they will, but the more pressure you put on employers, the more likely that is to happen. I\u2019m all for supporting employees and making sure they have the best possible chance to have a decent life. I listened to one or two of the speeches from the other side of the House tonight and, frankly, I think the description they gave is very unfortunate, and, hopefully, it is isolated to a very few businesses around New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo the purpose of this bill is to increase the availability of employer-funded sick leave for employees. The reason for it\u2014and I guess you could think about COVID and blame COVID for it, or say that COVID was responsible for it. We\u2019re going to blame it for everything for the next 20 years in New Zealand, I imagine, but I guess it\u2019s an example of that. It\u2019ll be very interesting to know the number of people that actually take more than five days or need more than five days\u2019 sick leave a year, and whether this bill changes what\u2019s historically happened very much at all. Only history will tell us that, but it will be very interesting to see where that takes us to and the result of that as we move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think that, as I said earlier, the more we get involved in regulation and legislation around employment relations, the more intolerant those relationships become, and it worries me that we\u2019d be moving down that path. In fact, I think we\u2019re going back to a time in history when, and, again, I\u2019m one of the few in this House that will remember, every summer holidays when you wanted to go to the South Island, the ferries were on strike, and the world stopped\u2014I didn\u2019t actually go on the ferry on holiday, because I never had holidays in those days. But it is a challenge for us and I think it\u2019s something we need to seriously consider. The issue that we\u2019ve really got is that there aren\u2019t many people in New Zealand who remember those days when we had labour relationships in New Zealand that were far from satisfactory, and I just hope that this sort of bill doesn\u2019t take us back there. So thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc110b5b2b604736bb95b403fd96958a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc110b5b2b604736bb95b403fd96958a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Helen White\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002291980f9a58724e2e8c050622add0385e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291980f9a58724e2e8c050622add0385e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise very proudly to speak in support of this bill. I have been a business owner, I\u2019ve also acted for lots of businesses, and I\u2019ve acted for employees, and I have been worried about the lack of sick leave and our attitude towards sickness in the workplace for a very long time. I am absolutely thrilled to see this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe reality is that our businesses can\u2019t afford not to have a provision like this around sick leave, because this is the very sort of thing that stops pandemics spreading. This is the very sort of thing that stops the flu spreading, and the flu actually kills a lot of people every year. If an employee comes to work and they are sick, then they pass it on to others. Other people pay the price as well in that situation. They pay a financial price and it is risky, so I am absolutely thrilled to see this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI do note that the arguments that are being used with regard to discrimination also just don\u2019t equate with my experience of employing. I have employed people and I\u2019ve employed them on boards and various things, and I\u2019ve never considered their sick leave entitlement, because what you\u2019re looking for is the best person for the job and we\u2019re employing human beings, not machines. It is not just a statistical exercise. I know lots of good employers, and I know that they would be appalled if you thought that that was their motivation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EFinally, I just wanted to say that the impact of this bill is not actually on most of us in this room, because most people in this room, if they were employed, were employed with 10 days\u2019 sick leave. It is our poorest workers\u2014it\u2019s actually our non-unionised workers\u2014who have these provisions in their Act, and that is where we should be targeting. These are the very workers who need our protection. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4e98829b4a04df28e4078172a2dd7dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4e98829b4a04df28e4078172a2dd7dc\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. First, I want to thank the Minister for introducing this bill into the House. I note that this legislation was signalled in the Labour Party\u2019s 2020 election manifesto. It was an honour to chair Labour\u2019s policy council leading into last year\u2019s election, and it is wonderful to be able to stand alongside my colleagues tonight and deliver on a promise made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, we have a culture of being staunch and toughing it out when we are sick. I recall, in my 20s, some of my friends proudly stating that they had never taken a sick day. It wasn\u2019t that they had never been sick; it was that they had bought into a culture that said that if you stay home when you\u2019re sick, then you\u2019re somehow less productive or not as capable. I know that I\u2019ve turned up to work when sick, partly because of pressure on myself to complete a task or project or not wanting to appear weak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAmongst supermarket workers, I often had workers concerned about letting the team down if they didn\u2019t go into work when they were sick, especially at busy times of the year. This was the culture that was allowed to permeate throughout the retail industry, with many workers reporting to me that they would be quizzed by their employer about why they couldn\u2019t go into work. They\u2019d be asked for great detail about what was wrong with them. They\u2019d be told they didn\u2019t sound sick\u2014never mind that they might have had a serious splitting migraine or terrible period pain. They were pressured to come into work when they were sick, and this used to happen an awful lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat we saw last year with COVID was, finally, a recognition that when we are sick, we actually need to stay home. Our culture of sucking it up has actually changed, and that\u2019s a good thing. Going to work when you\u2019re sick, which was once a common occurrence, is no longer acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn a previous speech, I spoke about the lowering of sick leave levels\u2014which my colleague Helen White has just mentioned\u2014when people do stay home. I mentioned this little tool, and I have a graph\u2014I haven\u2019t quite figured out how to do A3 printing in this House yet. I have a little graph from the Ministry of Health\u2019s flu tracker survey. What it clearly shows is in 2019, we had very high levels of reported influenza symptoms. In 2020, when people stayed home, those symptoms dropped right down. Again, in 2021, because the message has got through to stay home when you\u2019re sick, these rates are continuing to track along the same trajectory as last year, which is a really, really good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOur experience over the last year has shown that when people stay home, it stops the spread of illnesses through workplaces, on public transport, in schools and supermarkets, at churches, mosques, and synagogues, and at movie theatres; and at events. Increasing sick leave provisions supports those workers who do the right thing by staying home from work when they are sick and by ensuring they don\u2019t lose income from doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow, the other side of the House has implied that those with dependants or of a certain age or of a certain gender may miss out on employment opportunities as a result of this law change. I remind those members opposite that that is illegal. As the Minister said during the committee stage of the bill last night, on this side of the House, we have a view that most employers actually strive to be good employers, that they value diversity, that they value the wellbeing of their employees, and that they treat their employees with respect. That is the vision we have of employment in this country, a vision of fairness and of good faith between employers and employees; not one where we legislate for the lowest common denominator. That\u2019s not aspirational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESome of the people bemoaning tonight that the sky is falling criticise this legislation because of the risk that some workers will treat sick leave as an entitlement and will fake their illness. Now, there will always be a small group of people who abuse the good faith that their employers show them in all aspects of employment. But, again, we don\u2019t legislate for the lowest common denominator. There is good case law that shows that if people abuse sick leave, they can justifiably be dismissed, and I want to put on record tonight that that is the correct thing to do if people misuse their employment entitlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to end the speech tonight by thanking all of those workers who have lobbied and campaigned for sick leave improvements for years, and I want to particularly mention one of my good friends and the delegate at Pak \u2019N Save Richmond, Jenny Wells, who has lobbied hard for the workers of Pak \u2019N Save Richmond in my electorate of Nelson. They will in a couple of months\u2019 time be receiving 10 days\u2019 sick leave a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is an excellent piece of legislation. It is an overdue piece of legislation. It signifies a big improvement to minimum employment entitlements that are needed in New Zealand. The change we are making tonight shows respect for workers, their families, and our communities. I am delighted to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00229cabe81ce3b840b79842db512e810276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cabe81ce3b840b79842db512e810276\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is a Government that may not deliver on infrastructure, it may not have delivered on the slow tram down Dominion Road, it may not have delivered on houses, but it has delivered for the unions\u2014there\u2019s no question about that. So those union members can be very happy that this is a Government very much focused on their concerns and their desires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the point I\u2019d make first is that we\u2019re here one day before the Budget, and we\u2019ll be interested to see what the figures are tomorrow. We look around the world where the US economy is at boom-time growth levels likened to the roaring 1920s, we see the Chinese economy expand a record 18 percent in the first quarter in an annual rate, the UK is growing faster, and a number of countries around the world have economies that are booming. We\u2019ll wait and see what New Zealand is doing, but my fear is that we are only coming out of COVID quite slowly and there\u2019s enormous pressure on the New Zealand economy, notwithstanding the fact that this Government is borrowing at a faster rate than any Government in our history. They\u2019re borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars every week in order to pump up the economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94ed4eb5c614cd5b9762ad7c0875261\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is not a Budget speech. Come to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb8b56c139b64d0ca90314a3b62567e1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re quite right, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m just giving the context to this bill, which is to say that we\u2019re in a time when we\u2019re facing real economic challenges, and what do we get from this Government? Do we ever get any legislation through this Government focused on enabling the economy to grow faster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2a25b3871b4a8999ffa7862f2aa239\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598665c5230945a5a216caf289dbd6aa\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014no. Is there anything, any legislation, that is focused on growth and expanding the productivity of this country? No. What we see, week in, week out, is more legislation focused on redistribution and on extra regulation, forcing businesses to pay workers more. Now, in perfect world, of course the whole purpose of Government policy is to have higher wages\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re all about. Everybody on both sides of the House, all sides of the House, wants New Zealanders to earn better wages and higher incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75042cce19c4ff08150ffd15c3f03af\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t. You never do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc2b5336d6c4cf19246e7b2b8deefab\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Of course we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b29fde722484110917c061a0baed242\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: No, you always argue to reduce labour costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221191426c7ead4a91a113c94b88c52223\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to take lessons from the deliverer of the slow tram down Dominion Road for three years. You might not have delivered your slow tram, but you\u2019ve delivered for the unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022909a30b3ef404d539dbd3e55e7971cb9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Reducing labour costs\u2014that\u2019s what you stand for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ef2bcfcf5e402eba65b0afc07a12fd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Both of you\u2014when you say the wrong pronoun, you mean me. Cut it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c272d009a84ca3b13b8c5681aac7c4\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re quite right, Mr Speaker. The point I was trying to make before I was rudely interrupted by \u201CMr KiwiBuild\u201D was that we are all focused on increasing incomes. But if you want to increase sustainable incomes in this country, you have to have a stronger economy, and, if you want to have higher incomes for New Zealanders, we need to be more productive and generating stronger things. So you can force employers to pay people more, as this Government has done with very, very rapid increases to the minimum wages and changes to entitlements\u2014you can force employers to do that, but you can\u2019t force an employer to stay in business if their business is no longer profitable. You can\u2019t force an individual to say \u201CI\u2019m going to put my money at risk in a business and keep employing people.\u201D if they\u2019re not able to make it happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, when we think about this bill, I think of a woman in the Epsom electorate who I know well, who has a small business in Mount Eden and employs a number of young people\u2014primarily part-time students\u2014and they\u2019ll, typically, work one day a week, so they might work 50 days a year. One of the interesting kinks of the sick leave entitlements is that they\u2019re not prorated in any way. So that means that, even if you work only 50 days a year, you\u2019re still entitled to the full five days\u2019 sick leave a year. This bill introduced by this Government doubles that to 10 days\u2019 sick leave a year, and it\u2019s still not prorated in any way, shape, or form, so even if you\u2019ve actually only worked one day a fortnight\u2014so you\u2019ve only worked 26 days a year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3d99f837d14f2f8bfbb43047d547ed\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Like the National caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45fcab451214986ad4710f7a5f3e599\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then, like the Labour Party caucus, you only work one day every fortnight, or 26 days a year. Or perhaps the Labour Cabinet only work one day a fortnight. So you only work 26 days a year, but you\u2019re still entitled to 10 days\u2019 sick leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe reality is that we all, of course\u2014of course\u2014work on the assumption that everyone is focused on the best interests of whatever enterprise they\u2019re working for, but the reality in life is that some people don\u2019t. The experience of this lady who employs people in Mount Eden is that her young employees know the rules, know what\u2019s entitled, and they see sickness leave as an entitlement, and they take the full five days. Her worry is that if they take the full 10 days and she\u2019s only employing them for 50 days a year, that becomes quite an impost on her as a business. She is struggling to survive, and she wonders, in combination with the higher minimum wage and various other entitlements that have been passed through, how she\u2019s expected to stay in business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe members on the other side just mock and are full of scorn and don\u2019t care about this. They think this is just ridiculous concerns of centre-right parties. It\u2019s not. It\u2019s concern for the reality of life for these small-business people, who are struggling to stay afloat and look after themselves and their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAny responsible Government would take this seriously and recognise that at a time when small businesses are struggling to go through a difficult period in our economy and when we have great uncertainty as to what\u2019s going to happen. The rest of the world, as I have said\u2014the UK, the US, China\u2014may be growing rapidly this year, and we may or we may not, because we don\u2019t know when the vaccine will roll out\u2014and I\u2019m not going to stray too far from the topic at hand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c106bd91224da7bdd94129b9765c6e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Triple A from Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e84c85e6dd4ca9b7423b308bd2d1ea\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s right\u2014triple A. Well, the complacency that we see on the other side of this House about the New Zealand economy is something to behold. I just hope that their complacency is justified. But when I look across the world at the challenges that we face, the immense borrowing that\u2019s been brought on, the immense amount of money that\u2019s been printed by the Reserve Bank, the incredibly low interest rates, and the massive inflation in asset prices that we see, I see that there are real risks on the horizon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo where do we get our growth and where do we get our increasing productivity from? We get it, ultimately, from people being prepared to risk their money to invest in new businesses and investing in better plant and machinery\u2014investing in their businesses to become more productive. But who would make those investments right now, when there is so much global uncertainty and then so much domestic uncertainty from a Government that keeps changing the rules all the time? That is the risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s not compulsory for people to risk their money in new investments and to start new businesses and to employ people, and this is the mistake that this Government makes time and time again, in so many areas. It\u2019s the same in housing, where we\u2019ve got a real crisis around rental property. They seem to miss the basic point that it\u2019s not compulsory for people to rent out houses, and if you make it too difficult, too expensive, and too risky, people won\u2019t, and then the supply will shrink. The same thing with employment: if you make it too risky, too difficult, too challenging, and too expensive, then fewer people will take the risk, and that means that fewer young people, in particular, in New Zealand will have the opportunity to have a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe proposition on the other side right now from Michael Wood, the Minister\u2014he\u2019s got it all under control\u2014is that \u201CI can double costs in this particular area and many other areas, increase costs significantly, and it will have no implications or no consequences for businesses. Everything will be fine.\u201D Well, that is your proposition. I\u2019d be very interested to see how it works out. But my concern for employers and employees across this country is that what we\u2019re doing right now is making it more difficult for those people who are trying to stay in business and provide opportunities both for their customers and for their employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhile everybody would like to have as much sick leave as they possibly can, and in a perfect world there would be no questions asked at any point about sick leave and people could have all the entitlements that they want, we also recognise that we live in a world where New Zealand businesses are struggling to compete globally, and we should take that seriously. The impression I get from that Government in this bill is that they are not taking those concerns seriously, and that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2abfcb4c4c9457e86b244b04aab1f4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2abfcb4c4c9457e86b244b04aab1f4f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. E noho.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u00226a44747cd3ab4e04996594132665a4ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a44747cd3ab4e04996594132665a4ce\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, and thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a real privilege to be the last speaker in the third reading of the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill. Isn\u2019t it wonderful that Mr Paul Goldsmith has found back his mathematical skills and he has found out that two times five is 10, and everything else that he managed to add up in this particular speech that he did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThis bill is, of course, about delivering on our commitment to increase statutory sick leave from five days to 10 days. As we have heard from the Minister, that is a promise kept. By increasing sick leave to 10 days, what we are doing is we are supporting our workers and we are giving more flexibility to working families. Not only that, as we\u2019ve heard all the way through the debate, but it is something that the Opposition has closed their ears to\u2014but when staff stay at home when they are sick, this will benefit businesses. We heard it time and time again: workers that stay at home when they are sick don\u2019t spread their bugs and don\u2019t make the rest of the workforce sick. Hence, people are more productive and, not only that, but happier and healthy in the workforce, and that carries a cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOn that aspect, I would like to also correct the member Scott Simpson on his simplified version of the cost involved in this exercise. Yes, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment did give an estimated cost of increasing sick leave, but what it did not take into account in that cost increase is the fact, of course, that there are plenty of benefits as a result of fewer illnesses being spread through workplaces and the resulting fewer absences, and also the increased productivity from a healthier and happier workforce. So all of that needs to be added up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBut, really, what I would like to say is that it would be great if the Opposition would take some lessons and talk to Christopher Luxon, who can tell them a little bit about how unions and how businesses can actually work together. They don\u2019t have to be pitted against each other. They don\u2019t have to hate on workers. They can actually work constructively and collaboratively together, and, in that way, achieve some really great things. In fact, Business New Zealand\u2019s 2019 Workplace Wellness Report said that a lift in absence rates may be an acceptable price to pay for an overall happier, healthier, and more productive staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo, with that, I\u2019d like to thank our submitters and I\u2019d like to thank everybody who supported this piece of legislation but a big thankyou also to the honourable Minister Michael Wood for bringing this bill to the House as one of the first items of legislation that he brought to the House. This is legislation that shows the importance that this Government puts on keeping workers safe, hence keeping New Zealand safe. Thank you, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269807eaf6503405d9d3b698102232ba0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000837\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c628a67cb49d408590b6fd77ac30819e\u0022\u003EFair Trading Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4d0f43952b5472b95632d6f63962825\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002200da85ccfb7743d19a2da3de6f525857\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200da85ccfb7743d19a2da3de6f525857\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Fair Trading Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223388f832fb1c4032b9e3a9ef69416535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223388f832fb1c4032b9e3a9ef69416535\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That statement is published on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcc5589af90f492a999eb7843fc16607\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fair Trading Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to protecting New Zealand businesses and consumers from unfair commercial practices. Last term, under the watchful eye of the Hon Kris Faafoi, we reviewed consumer credit laws, strengthened responsible lending, and capped interest and fees that can be charged on high-cost loans. Perhaps it was coincidental or maybe it was the universe foreshadowing what was to be in the future, but last year I was the member who presented the first reading of this bill on behalf of Minister Faafoi when I was all care and no responsibility for matters of commerce and consumer affairs. And now, of course, I have both\u2014all care and all responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses business behaviour that goes beyond what is commercially necessary or appropriate, where big and powerful firms take advantage of their position to take advantage of smaller businesses and consumers, and it is important that the Government addresses this kind of behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe bill itself introduces three key changes. It prohibits unconscionable conduct in trade, it extends protections against unfair contract terms for business contracts under $250,000 a year, and it legally empowers consumers and businesses to tell uninvited sellers to leave their property, including through the use of \u201CDo not knock\u201D stickers, with penalties proposed at $10,000 for individuals and $30,000 for businesses who ignore these invitations not to knock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere are many stories of small businesses who\u2019ve been bullied by suppliers or business customers. Some of the ones that were collected during initial consultation prior to the bill include things like photographers being threatened, verbally abused, and blacklisted after asking for payments that were due; supermarkets penalising suppliers for promotions run with other retailers, by demanding compensation for perceived losses caused by other retailers\u2019 promotions and deducting it from payments to suppliers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAnother example is that of a lender repossessing and dumping the personal effects of borrowers which it knows to be of little value. The purpose of the repossessions was not to recover the unpaid debt but, rather, to send a message to the borrower to pay. Aggressive sales tactics are another thing that came up in consultation\u2014for example, a trader who used aggressive sales tactics to sell expensive skincare products in shopping malls. A number of the targets were elderly or otherwise vulnerable, for example, two people with autism were charged $10,000 for their purchases. The list goes on. Unfortunately, the abuse of power by large businesses either in contracts with consumers or with smaller businesses is something that does need to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe know that these unfair terms cause stress. They present barriers to growth for firms, and as far as the consumer goes, they can put people in very unfortunate financial positions. That is exactly why we don\u2019t want New Zealanders in this position as we recover from the economic impacts of COVID-19 and why we need to plug the gaps in our existing infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to thank the submitters on this bill. Feedback is a crucial part of the process and in particular because submissions on this bill were made during the level 4 COVID lockdown. I want to thank the former chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, the Hon Jonathan Young, who led consideration of the bill. I also want to thank other members of the select committee last term, including deputy chair T\u0101mati Coffey, Poto Williams, and Deborah Russell. They received 51 submissions. They heard 20 orally, either in Wellington or via Zoom, and while they did not get a chance to report back, they did consider the submissions made and also, the department, in its departmental report, considered the submissions. While many submitters supported the bill, there were indeed suggestions for change, and I intend to make changes through a Supplementary Order Paper during the committee of the whole House stage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESome submitters wanted a definition of \u201Cunconscionable conduct\u201D to aid clarity, and, as it stands, the list of factors in the bill provides a principle-based approach and we believe that actually the courts are best placed to make assessments, because what is unconscionable depends on the circumstances involved. In Australia courts have said that conduct is unconscionable if it goes against conscience by reference to the norms of society, and they\u2019ve said that those norms include honesty and fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESubmitters had mixed views on whether the unfair contract terms extension was appropriately targeted. It only applies to standard form contracts which aren\u2019t subject to effective negotiation, and that recognises the fact that what we\u2019re talking about here is those smaller firms who don\u2019t have the bargaining power and don\u2019t have the resources to apply to unfair terms, to identify them, and to argue their corner. So the protections only apply to trading relationships with an expected value of $250,000 a year or more. While submitters argued for a higher or lower cap, we think $250,000 strikes the right balance to capture a range of contracts involving vulnerable businesses while allowing larger strategic contracts to be negotiated in the traditional fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s goal is to create a productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy where the interests of businesses and consumers are protected, and that is arguably now more important than ever. This, I believe, is the first time we have had a legislative statement for the second reading of a bill, so we\u2019re setting some history here. That lays out the most important aspects for interpretation in the law, and so I will end my contribution here. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00222d33deb67b584e94ad0058d441ee8369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d33deb67b584e94ad0058d441ee8369\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021051930e4073db77c47dfa17020ccfa7cfe86000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"