"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d38a9f1992e84093baea4e05e29872cf\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002245e05b687333461e84edc5b22e84c975\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253f7c53e5f0d47bb870d34dfa5fa46d1\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262422a2161da4045b4c7e19b256bacc4\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220bbb94328d46493cb1c3d7287061c1a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bbb94328d46493cb1c3d7287061c1a7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100 k\u0101ti r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i runga i te tuku iho o r\u0101tou m\u0101, te w\u0101hi ngaro. N\u014D reira, e te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te Ku\u012Bni, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Well, then, greetings to us all of us that benefit from the legacy and care of those who have passed on. Therefore, almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a8d0433946a49c99bf6451af932c95c\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc2e15df7a794d6b878a88f680c316d3\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b281f96e42e84306aceb7ac4bb0e1aa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b281f96e42e84306aceb7ac4bb0e1aa1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions, papers, or select committee reports have been presented. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022832e6260ca0f4ab7aa314a7fa5ebb03a\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Observations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fbb642b41234ce8a1a5c6d18d09fa93\u0022\u003EInterjections\u2014Microphones\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8896c96cc144d98be54b8f27965cbef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8896c96cc144d98be54b8f27965cbef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before we move on to oral questions, I do want to apologise to members for an incorrect comment that I made yesterday when I was under the impression that Mr Bishop had used the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s mike in interjecting. In fact, I have been informed that the microphone was turned off at the time and that any amplification would have come from my microphones and not from the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s. I also want to apologise to the staff whose job it is to make sure that the feed that goes publicly works well. I checked; it did work well. They work the volume controls in order for the outside feed, but, unfortunately, it doesn\u2019t help me in here. As a point of compromise, and I\u2019ll relay this to the member concerned, I\u2019ve turned my hearing aids down. So if he\u2019s in the same position, if he turns his volume down, we might get the appropriate compromise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228175faa862de4743bfc8b54efee2e359\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8a663b0e337470480b668933ec7894b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eaac4c53467948d0a0459386f9315ceb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e906ffc2dbf841968661e5b16c4d809a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e906ffc2dbf841968661e5b16c4d809a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227e718394a15144be94770cd71b4d64b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e718394a15144be94770cd71b4d64b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by the Government\u2019s COVID-19 vaccination programme that, today, has reached two important milestones: 80 percent of eligible Aucklanders have now received at least one dose of the Pfizer vaccine, and, nationally, 75 percent of eligible New Zealanders have received at least one dose of the Pfizer vaccine. That\u2019s fantastic progress, but the job isn\u2019t finished. If you still haven\u2019t received your first dose, go out and get it today. If that one in four of us who hasn\u2019t had their first dose is a friend or wh\u0101nau member, talk to them today. Just like we all stayed at home to save lives, now is the time to get vaccinated and save lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58dd97315a04085bd82fe79dde1d0b5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why was $12 billion of the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund spend on projects unrelated to COVID? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247652e887fdb43b4b24b36a28b48e068\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would reject the premise of that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f5a702b45247b59d52a26f064a3c2e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what did the three waters policy\u2014allocated $710 million from the COVID response and recovery fund\u2014have to do with COVID? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6394e28e49431183426dfd5ee97b00\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We were very clear that the COVID response and recovery fund was about both the direct response as in, for instance, health measures and economic recovery, so there were absolutely\u2014and we stand by it\u2014projects that were contained within the COVID response and recovery fund to help industries either recover from the economic impacts of COVID or to create jobs. We know that the $750 million that went in there was around infrastructure projects which would help create jobs across New Zealand and also have the dual benefit of improving our water infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab0e866efe143eabb422e16b5d62b96\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that billions of dollars in wage subsidies went to businesses who are operating in areas that have nothing to do with COVID-19? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e27adda4e844bb4aeba5fb641031447\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, because our response to COVID has always been about, yes, the immediate health effects but also the economic impact of COVID, and the member makes the point, rightly, that therefore the COVID response and recovery fund was about acknowledging that across the country, the economic impacts of COVID were felt. If the members may choose to listen to the answer, they\u2019ll hear that our response through the COVID response and recovery fund was much more directly targeted than that member\u2019s proposal to fund roads from the COVID response and recovery fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea81eb71b36645be94510defe7e87f6c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why did spending $26,000 on a novel about alpaca breeders have to do with COVID? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8944b5bfb7461d8a61b36dfb129696\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member could repeat the question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf25230884942c2a01ea158bcc03343\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Very happy to, thank you. What did spending $26,000 on a novel about alpaca breeders have to do with COVID? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0eb1542a9fe48639ff144cd81d77b3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me explain the somewhat convoluted assumption the member has made here: the member seems to be attacking the fact that we have funded Creative New Zealand. Creative New Zealand determine the projects they fund. What we determined was\u2014and rightly so\u2014the creative sector was at the front line and continues to bear the brunt of COVID. When you shut down the ability for live performances and for people to gather, the events sector, the hospitality sector, and the creative sector are hit hard. So I stand by the fact that we supported Creative New Zealand to continue to support our creatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38f78d7ca79410cb57bbf19faf15126\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: What did the wage subsidy to the Taxpayers\u2019 Union have to do with COVID-19? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022877f759895d043ce8f2aadbc540d0f5a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a very good point. We had a broad wage subsidy that enabled those who determined that their revenue was impacted by COVID to be supported. It\u2019s up to each of those organisations, within a high-trust model, to demonstrate they were indeed eligible for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8bb240548c84bf5b3f09c531457ebe6\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How does she justify spending an annual increase of $7 million from the COVID fund on Radio New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225467a1a5837f477ba8ba71731ea8c3f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: In the way that I\u2019ve already explained all the way through this answer: because the impacts of COVID on a range of industries were significant. If the member is now making an accusation that we should not continue to fund our creative or our broadcasters, then that is the member\u2019s prerogative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247cee5c60db7428e932c954a0425e1f5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Since Radio New Zealand doesn\u2019t receive advertising dollars, how could it have lost any advertising or income with COVID?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b97094789d94a108c20b5d34f124306\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That wasn\u2019t my claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db1996a7eca84464bad55f3cd5fc9861\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen reports of proposals to spend the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund on untargeted tax cuts, and what does she make of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9e1346dca164615b0db01f47afc58b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I also saw proposals during the election campaign that would have seen a significant portion, if not all of it, spent on roading projects. The member can absolutely make her own judgment on whether or not she considers the projects we funded to be about an economic recovery from the impacts of COVID-19. But it would be somewhat\u2014words that are unparliamentary\u2014to make that claim when the member\u2019s very own party policy was actually much worse in that regard, because they did not respond to the economic recovery from COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b70be159cf647d98da5e713d5b5d3a1\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How much, if any, of the COVID fund has been spent on increasing intensive care capacity in New Zealand hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb80b484a36a42678ee05724804100b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will appreciate that I won\u2019t be able to give a line by line if the member chooses not to put questions on notice, which I always encourage you to do, because I am very keen to be as fulsome in my answers as I can. But if she chooses to ask general questions, I\u2019m somewhat limited on my line-by-line recall. What I can say is that we did fund, in the Budget, training capacity, because that is one of the issues. It\u2019s not just about physical infrastructure or access to ventilators, which were vastly increased during the first outbreak that we had in New Zealand. It\u2019s the ability to put staffing around those intensive needs in either high dependency units or ICUs. So we provided funding for DHBs to undertake that training for their staff to enable greater capacity alongside the hundreds of additional ventilators that were purchased as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217bf800554b54bfa9a983d1e205a2480\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Will she commit to spending at least some of the extra $7 billion allocated to the COVID fund on providing relief to struggling Auckland businesses to cover their rental costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfd3852a9f9c432bbbd6020b2198a3ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The way the member has presented the question almost implies that that hasn\u2019t been the focus of the funding as it is. We\u2019ve had, for instance, under the wage subsidy scheme, $2.3 billion supporting over 300,000 applicants and businesses. For the resurgence support payment\u2014and I highlight again for the member: the resurgence support payment is available for paying fixed costs, like for rents or anything else the business determines it to be for. First payment, 134,000 businesses received over half a billion dollars, and the second payment, 23,000 businesses received $138 million, and we\u2019ve committed to continuing that on a three-weekly basis. It does support fixed costs. I can\u2019t tell you how many businesses solely used it on rentals. That is a decision for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b2e9e7a3f9241c7a17d2ee417f0d018\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00224fc8340b9c07499eb05f4425617a9b26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fc8340b9c07499eb05f4425617a9b26\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What economic support has been provided to businesses since the Delta COVID outbreak alert level changes announced on 17 August?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226b886d554b8742feb27d19ffcd29b439\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b886d554b8742feb27d19ffcd29b439\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has moved quickly and decisively to provide significant support to protect New Zealanders\u2019 lives and livelihoods in response to the Delta COVID-19 outbreak. The wage subsidy scheme and resurgence support payment were reactivated following the rise in alert levels, along with existing supports such as the leave support scheme, the short-term absence payment, and the Small Business Cashflow (Loan) Scheme. In total, since 17 August, the wage subsidy scheme and resurgence support payment have paid out over $3 billion to New Zealand businesses, made up\u2014as the Prime Minister\u2019s just said\u2014of around $2.3 billion in the wage subsidy scheme and just over $800 million in the two resurgence support payments. This is about providing cash flow and confidence to help protect jobs and support New Zealand businesses. We recognise that this has been a tough time for many businesses, and we are here to support them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9280b75ad2c4bf1a4d455e03151d1cc\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What changes have been made to the support available to businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022086b0433de3841b2908cc6811ec9c340\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we have done throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, we have updated and expanded our support in response to the needs that arise. The resurgence support payment, which helps businesses with costs\u2014like the cost of rent, for example\u2014and is available at alert level 2 or above was amended to ensure that it included new businesses. The time required for a business to be eligible for the payment was lowered from six months to one month. Businesses can also apply for further resurgence support payments to recognise the effects of an extended period of alert level restrictions. The payment was initially intended as one-off payment, but we have now made it\u2014as the Prime Minister has just said\u2014into a three-weekly payment, in recognition of the pressure that some businesses are under. We will continue to work alongside sectors to ensure we provide support as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f6293bb034464bb514d10d17ab2ff0\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on how businesses are responding to Delta COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0662e1dceaa4d8e888a1f037141666d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, the ANZ bank provided a preliminary look at business confidence in September, which found firms remained resilient amidst higher alert levels. Business confidence actually rose 7 points in September to a net 7 percent of respondents expecting the economy to deteriorate compared with August, while firms\u2019 expectations about their own trading activity was mostly unchanged. Employment and investment intentions were a little softer but remain at higher levels. ANZ examined whether there was a split between Auckland and the rest of the country on these matters, but the differences were very small. This suggests that firms are well positioned to deal with this latest lockdown and are expecting a return to strong demand as restrictions are lifted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbdee614b352430ca5760e94a8b301df\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to Hospitality New Zealand CEO Julie White, who described the new condition on the wage subsidy as \u201Ccruel and heartbreaking.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54fd1e023104d1db9394dbbb0fa17d2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019d say to Julie White\u2014who I have met with in recent times\u2014is that those conditions around the wage subsidy scheme have been in place since last year. It has always been the case that alert 3 and alert level 4 conditions are the determinant of the receiving of the wage subsidy scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d609a0f260749c498ee55c569bc72ff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022aae31c3334be4eea839c8ace37ba2808\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aae31c3334be4eea839c8ace37ba2808\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just under Standing Order 394, just to indicate that I\u2019ve got authorisation from Julie Anne Genter to ask questions on her behalf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002287d06dbb733142ce916af3d42aa11d5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287d06dbb733142ce916af3d42aa11d5c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I had been informed of that, and I work on that assumption anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002248860559a79844dc97f3162879d96eb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E3. Hon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green) on behalf of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248860559a79844dc97f3162879d96eb0\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Will he propose a law change to prevent New Zealand citizens living overseas from losing their right to vote if they haven\u2019t been able to visit Aotearoa during the COVID-19 pandemic; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00225849bf8c10ef48839f063e8c9d763176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225849bf8c10ef48839f063e8c9d763176\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E As Minister of Justice, this may be one of many issues among the findings and recommendations of the Justice Committee\u2019s inquiry into the 2020 election, which I understand will report back before the end of the year. I\u2019m also aware that the issue was included in the Electoral Commission\u2019s report on the 2020 general election. The Government will consider any necessary changes in this area after receiving the select committee\u2019s recommendations in their totality. There could be a number of relevant issues that the committee identifies for further consideration, and it\u2019s important to work through these issues in a well-considered way, as all electoral law changes should be. Obviously, New Zealanders choose to live overseas for a variety of reasons, but the Government does understand this doesn\u2019t mean they lose interest in the issues that affect their friends and their loved ones who still live in New Zealand. We do recognise that the COVID-19 pandemic has been particularly disruptive to international travel, and this has had a flow-on effect on some people\u2019s ability to return to New Zealand. This is why it is important to let the select committee do its work to consider this issue and to provide recommendations to the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e50259a49bc1452fb738892396543324\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Under the existing law, why do New Zealand citizens have to return to Aotearoa every three years, when there are no residency requirements on citizens\u2019 voting rights in Canada, the United States, Austria, Belgium, Chile, Finland, France, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, and Spain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d894dc425e2424d9d4745a5d6f12c3e\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: All of those other jurisdictions have their own laws. In New Zealand, I believe the electoral law that the member has referred to is to ensure that there is a connection maintained to New Zealand in order to express the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f4a92da24bf4d328e4cfb4e612279e2\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the reports that \u201CIf the law is not changed, it would be the largest disenfranchisement of voters in recent times\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291be20eecbcc4c7a89cabe3a6035d264\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not. But I am aware of the issues that are raised by the Electoral Commission around the issues that the COVID-19 pandemic has caused for some people who are overseas, and the interaction with that with the current laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b879620fa50475fb4d3f63977b51db9\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that the current law is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act requirement that any limit on rights must be \u201Cdemonstrably justified in a free and democratic society\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234b586425bc54ddb9a6999c098daaa07\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: There are always some of those issues that come into play when the border is closed. I guess one of the main issues for people overseas, obviously, is getting a managed isolation spot in order to return to New Zealand under the current law. As I say, the select committee is looking at these issues, and once they come back, the Government will consider them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8080112ec2341c391262d55be981f75\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that the window of time to propose a law change before the 2022 local elections is narrowing quickly, meaning that tens of thousands of people could miss out on the chance to vote next October?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81ea09f7a8f4524bf9619170963368f\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say to that, as I said in my primary answer, is that any change to electoral law should be careful and well considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215827ee5203848ad86937d483df6f80d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c43c6a12f5f3472486acec7b63ce07e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c43c6a12f5f3472486acec7b63ce07e1\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What decisions has he taken to ensure that senior school students in Auckland and around the country have a fair opportunity to attain NCEA in 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00220b9496534ab845c6baef485f657bb351\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b9496534ab845c6baef485f657bb351\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Government\u2019s providing additional support and credits for both Auckland and non-Auckland students. On 9 September, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority set these out for schools outside of Auckland who have had 16 days at alert levels 3 and 4. These students will be eligible to earn Learning Recognition credits at a rate of one Learning Recognition credit per five credits achieved through their regular assessments, up to a cap of eight for NCEA level 1 and six for levels 2 and 3. While the provisions for Auckland schools had previously been set on the basis of 20 days of disruption, I\u2019ve today announced revised provisions to recognise the extended time these students are spending at alert levels 3 and 4. Auckland students will be entitled to one Learning Recognition credit for every four credits that they earn, rather than for every five, and the caps will be 16 Learning Recognition credits for level 1, and 12 at levels 2 and 3. That\u2019s twice as many as the other students around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69f6099579f47cf86290fd98c6600ee\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other supports are available to Auckland students sitting NCEA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b90ecf8e1949288445f37a1a517402\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The threshold for Auckland students to be awarded a certificate endorsement will also be adjusted to 44 credits at merit or excellence level, rather than the 46 that it is for students who were able to return to the classroom sooner around the rest of the country. To be awarded university entrance, Auckland students will need to achieve 12 rather than 14 credits in each of three university entrance approved subjects. They\u2019ll still need to attain NCEA level 3 and meet the literacy and numeracy requirements for university entrance. Put together with the Learning Recognition credits, these changes amount to a full reactivation of the support that was provided to Auckland students last year following their second lockdown then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a62562e014417aa35cfcdf0c630543\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other decisions have been made to assist all students sitting NCEA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123882a806654a5bada34ed264015cf4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Students throughout the country will also benefit from the two-week delay to end-of-year examinations and most portfolio submission dates. That will provide those students with additional time for their learning and assessment, which will help them to earn their full entitlement of Learning Recognition credits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd6cfc73492544febb5d23e05dfd2a32\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00229bf4da99c16b420987e10fdb3508bdc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bf4da99c16b420987e10fdb3508bdc6\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statements and actions around hospital resources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d854787a17164bb18cbc764c8eab72f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d854787a17164bb18cbc764c8eab72f4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular I stand by this Government\u2019s action to record a record investment in the health system of more than $24 billion in Budget 2021. I note that this is 45 percent, or $7.6 billion, higher than the National Government spent on health in its last year in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3ba822dcf64f0a9e94493c664e633f\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why, according to the Ministry of Health, do we have fewer ICU beds today than we did at the end of lockdown in May last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271c12c3bdb9247ce9a144f926ff3ae92\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure where that member gets his figures from, and it doesn\u2019t accord with figures I have received. Right now we have about 240-odd ICU beds available throughout the hospital network in New Zealand. That can be very quickly stepped up to about 326 beds, and with a little bit of extra effort can be surge stepped up to 550 beds. I\u2019m confident that we can have ICU cover to meet any surge outbreak in COVID should that arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222906e106614940a3889052ef5382abd0\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How many ICU beds were available at the end of lockdown in May last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c5eda05d5f420fb85c1ea2a4f2424d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that figure available to me, but I do know that as a consequence of a review of the management of lockdown responses last year, the Ministry of Health supported DHBs to work on a programme to fund additional staff training, so more nurses were capable of working in an ICU environment. They funded additional ventilators, and they also worked with DHBs to provide more space, including negative pressure rooms, to manage the response to COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226973356e89a6498e8099a90b94833f13\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer to written questions that a request from Auckland DHB to build negative pressure rooms prior to the latest outbreak was declined in favour of another project, and, if so, what was the other project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a02ad674cb4cf3baf42d8eabc983e6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is talking in cryptic terms. I\u2019m not quite sure what he\u2019s getting at. What I do know is that Counties Manukau DHB, for example, did actually invest in additional space. That\u2019s why they have the available ward space for treating COVID patients in the way that they do. I know that Auckland DHB invested in equipment, or, at least, in furnishings, for some of their wards so that they could manage COVID patients, and I know that Waitemat\u0101 DHB is able to manage COVID patients safely, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022142be89e81be45d68be8332bf7c18f83\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a written parliamentary question that\u2019s not in public domain, to my understanding, that demonstrates that the ministry did turn down a request to build negative pressure rooms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141619833c3e41e495aa067e8cd2943a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll put that to the House. Is there any objection to that? There is no objection to that. But I will, at the same time, remind the member of Speakers\u2019 ruling 183/3, which requires the member, if he is to ask a specific supplementary, not to ask a general first question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef470c2394084b378c7694bad2c6a214\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer to written questions that in the four months since the Government\u2019s public sector pay restraint announcement in May, the number of ICU nurses leaving Auckland ICU increased sevenfold compared to the same period the previous year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cb4ef42437d4fd6a7420b941f0063ed\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is that it is correct that the turnover of nurses across a range of disciplines in hospitals has increased, particularly in Auckland. That is a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e4ba96c3c0490aa6dd4a3da45cf18f\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Are hospitals building negative pressure rooms during an outbreak and urgently seeking ICU nurses because he has been focused on health restructuring instead of preparing our hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d691682678454cc7a86beed9d18f350c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I draw the member\u2019s attention to an earlier answer I gave, which was that the programme to adapt more of our hospitals to effective responses to COVID started last year, following a review of last year\u2019s COVID lockdowns. Hospitals have built, or at least equipped, additional space on their premises to respond to COVID. They have trained more nurses; roughly 1,400 more nurses have been trained to work in an ICU environment, compared to August last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436b2707626f406d8bc2e43b196891f8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Then why did we ask for 30 urgent ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e5175e4e8949cca62c530d58b4ed1b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t ask anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248627be0b9bf4b31bd36c30eb68b580f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u00228dfcbbb6fbd049ef8fb48a2c0285aac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dfcbbb6fbd049ef8fb48a2c0285aac2\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made on the long-term pathway for mental wellbeing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022abb19a28a3ea4b5da54365debe27ca93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abb19a28a3ea4b5da54365debe27ca93\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I announced Kia Manawanui Aotearoa \u2013 Long-term pathway to mental wellbeing. This is the first 10-year plan of its kind that targets the cause of mental distress and also sets out how to achieve hauora\u2014healthy\u2014futures. We cannot achieve healthy futures if the health sector works in isolation. Kia Manawanui calls for all of us to work together, taking action from across Government to our communities through to individuals so that people who experience mental illness and distress can be better supported to have the resilience, tools, and support that they need to regain their wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ccfdde63ef94d82af54a56cc827bd10\u0022\u003EDr Gaurav Sharma\u003C/span\u003E: What sets Kia Manawanui apart from the previous strategies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85620c3240046eaa05f3f708e15da1d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Kia Manawanui is a new approach and way of thinking that requires Government agencies to work together and work with communities to promote and protect mental wellbeing. It sets out short-, medium-, and long-term actions to be taken across Government, with a focus on key areas such as technology, workforce, and investment, to make transformative change within the mental health and addiction sector. Kia Manawanui includes actions like addressing the social, cultural, environmental, and economic factors that can affect wellbeing; strengthening our focus to promote mental wellbeing for all New Zealanders; and developing different ways to commission services that enable joined-up investment and make it easier for providers to respond to complex needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cebaeaf31cd49dd8729dd59ad14153f\u0022\u003EDr Gaurav Sharma\u003C/span\u003E: What will having this long-term pathway in place mean for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3acc351ea1f4c52a976c944dec27dda\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: This Government wants all people to have their basic needs met so that things like employment, housing, and education aren\u2019t causing them mental distress. We will see community-led solutions that will empower everyone to attain their own wellbeing\u2014for example, people will be able to access advice and support to protect and to promote their own mental wellbeing in times, places, and ways that work for them. It might be, for example, that the local rugby club has information about managing stress or has links with the local pregnancy and parenting service that is working with local families to prevent addiction-related harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002242bdcaf023e049ed9d0460129e712382\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002261aedf904dcd4bcdb46b0abc073b6066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261aedf904dcd4bcdb46b0abc073b6066\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: How will the Government ensure that M\u0101ori vaccination levels are equitable before moving out of the elimination strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002207310f1181b24bc1a27dca5d2176b891\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207310f1181b24bc1a27dca5d2176b891\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the last part of the question, the Government is not intending to move out of the elimination strategy. We continue to pursue a strategy of stamping out COVID-19 cases wherever we find them. The Government\u2019s always placed equity at the forefront of our COVID-19 response, and the roll-out of the vaccination programme is no different. While we recorded an important milestone over the weekend, with more than 50 percent of eligible M\u0101ori having received a first dose, there clearly is still more work that we need to be doing. The Ministry of Health is using the data that we have available to drive an approach that\u2019s focused on those populations who have lower vaccination throughout New Zealand, including M\u0101ori. The strategies are focused on ensuring the maximum uptake to measure progress, looking at ethnicity, age, location, and so on. It isn\u2019t enough for us to rely on a simple, single measure. We have to look in a much more detailed manner, where vaccination rates are higher and lower, and the characteristics of those populations. Fundamentally, the elimination strategy recognises that vulnerable communities would be the hardest hit by any COVID-19 outbreak, so elimination remains the best strategy to ensure equitable outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b1aae1d4013407fb10ec256276c600b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Cabinet choose to ignore the advice of Te R\u014Dp\u016B Whakakaupapa Urut\u0101, who issued a press release calling for Auckland to remain in level 4 and be joined by the Waikato region until we are absolutely certain that the spread of COVID-19 is eliminated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765f0ea258c5411f985687522ea7109d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We haven\u2019t removed alert level restrictions in Auckland; we\u2019ve moved from alert level 4 to alert level 3. I think it\u2019s useful to recall that we\u2019ve managed previous outbreaks by only going up to alert level 3. We moved to alert level 4 because of the significance of the Delta variant and the fact that we know it is more transmissible, that it had a head start on us, and that we were therefore likely to discover potentially a significant number of more cases in the community, which we did. Moving down from alert level 4 to alert level 3 doesn\u2019t mean we are not still pursuing a strategy of getting back to zero\u2014that is absolutely what we are focused on. It\u2019s just we are increasingly confident that we know where the risk is and, therefore, we can manage it at alert level 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a7f49beaea4ebf8aa02e9f1ca7a9bd\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept, considering the nature of the outbreak and that M\u0101ori have the lowest vaccination rates of any group, that the decision to move Auckland to level 3 presents far greater risks for M\u0101ori, and that the much safer approach would have been to wait until M\u0101ori vaccination rates were much higher?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f81e21f1c15c486ebbaae03959512bfb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Lower vaccination rates amongst M\u0101ori are a concern and they do leave M\u0101ori at greater risk of an adverse outcome from COVID-19. That is something that I think we should all be concerned about. I fully endorse and back measures that are targeting M\u0101ori communities, and I think that those who seek to undermine those are doing a great disservice to all New Zealanders as they do so. In fact, we should be targeting all of those pockets of our community where vaccination rates are lower. We should do that proactively and proudly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6c65316d2f248c598615ffd3364c282\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen modelling based on current vaccination rates on who are the 10 percent of the population the Government is willing to sacrifice if, as the Minister of Health recently said, level 4 restrictions won\u2019t ever be put in place again once 90 percent of the population has been vaccinated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b8a9151335a4e0da7ba295055e08a9f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I addressed this very issue at my media conference earlier on today. When we talk about a 90 percent vaccination rate\u2014and, bear in mind, the Government has not set a hard and fast target around vaccinations and we have persistently resisted calls for us to do so. When we talk about 90 percent, that would put us amongst the highest vaccination rates in the world, and that would be encouraging, but that is not an invitation to 10 percent of New Zealanders to say \u201CI\u2019m going to be part of the 10 percent that doesn\u2019t get vaccinated.\u201D We need every New Zealander who is eligible to be vaccinated to come forward and be vaccinated to offer the maximum possible protection against COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfa747a5b4e40a18acbf3ac7904a091\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister think that increasing the M\u0101ori vaccination rate will be helped by political leaders saying things like \u201CMutations of the virus are becoming less deadly. The way the virus is mutating, it\u2019s more easily transmissible but fewer people are getting severely affected by it.\u201D, as the Leader of the Opposition did today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd36fc576aef40989028ba7bb048340d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s really important that our overall message to all New Zealanders at this point should continue to be that COVID-19 is dangerous; that people die from COVID-19 and are dying in large numbers from COVID-19 around the rest of the world; and the best thing that all New Zealanders can do, and all those who are in New Zealand can do, is come forward and be vaccinated to protect themselves, to protect the people that they care about, and to protect everybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002256f049e481a144b89a6c23be5612be87\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e36e2557e0954a03abd2372b667f1ae4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e36e2557e0954a03abd2372b667f1ae4\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What recent announcements has she made regarding police front-line safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00222e14a6d398ac49c39b797c6a29cf34e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e14a6d398ac49c39b797c6a29cf34e5\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier today, the commissioner and I announced a new $45 million front-line safety package to keep our police safe. The package includes more than doubling the current annual tactical training for front-line officers, tactical prevention teams with advanced training to undertake warrants and other work involving higher risk, tactical dog teams, and an additional 78 constabulary staff and 28 intelligence analysts. The Government is committed to keeping our front-line police officers safe so that they can in turn keep New Zealanders safe. This is an investment in ensuring our police officers return home safely to their wh\u0101nau every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7499a349f134bf28f0a44a915cb3c1e\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government made this investment in front-line safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ccc637c27c471ba2e4c23272c85fe7\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Police are front-line workers who go above and beyond to keep our communities safe. I want every police officer to get home safely to their family at the end of the day. The Government is committed to ensuring police have the resources they need to keep themselves and our communities safe. That\u2019s why we are providing immediate funding to accelerate Police\u2019s new tactical response model, and that will increase the training and capability of front-line staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ea7fcfda304fe8a87dc09237b75d12\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on the front-line safety package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220735069bb9c449ee8815c786c5f8d3c6\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen from the Police Association that \u201Cthis represents a really positive step forward, and I believe officers will welcome it. Our members have been telling us for a number of years that they want more training.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221daf179239364fe7ab025f8562fbf7a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Any further comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022502e0549ffde4d8fbeb14adec3baf62b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not at this stage, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd48a42daa5645feb460ceaa90b959f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I just say to the member that a number of members in the House have the habit of reading their supplementary questions. If the member wants that to cease and for us to have a policy not to do so, then the appropriate way of doing it is to approach the Standing Orders Committee for a change. I would like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7687a0ed16d45c4afaa0c2e95f2b7bc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00227e9c8d276f384c9abe7332b20e4a8c0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e9c8d276f384c9abe7332b20e4a8c0a\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Is he confident that the Department of Corrections\u2019 policies are keeping New Zealanders safe from COVID-19; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6cb66dd04014d9eb1cd21102bf45194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6cb66dd04014d9eb1cd21102bf45194\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. As I outlined yesterday, it was Corrections\u2019 health screening that helped us to identify that there was potential for COVID to have spread into the community. As I also noted yesterday, while Corrections have strict policies in place to stop the spread of COVID-19 in prisons, this case has identified that there are areas where we can look to create improvements around transportation. The transportation method in this case was outside of Corrections\u2019 control, given the bail conditions were set by the courts. I can update that agencies and stakeholders, including Corrections, the Ministry of Social Development, police, the Ministry of Justice, and managed isolation and quarantine are working at pace to strengthen processes, following the Prime Minister\u2019s request that when people are released from prisons in COVID-19 alert levels 3 or 4 and need to cross a border into a lower alert level to get to their address, someone from the lower alert level collects them from prison, or that Corrections transport the individuals from the prison over the border. I have requested an update from my officials on this work as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441a241b3a484ffdb9919c6042b46860\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: So why was it that Corrections staff allowed a patched Black Power gang member to be permitted to be picked up by three individuals, when his bail conditions clearly stated that a specified family member was to collect him from Mt Eden Corrections Facility and return to the upper Hauraki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a1efe59d8442199919b6effa196b3f\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Upon release, the court instructed that this person be picked up and transported by a specified individual. I\u2019m advised the nominated individual was in the car, which was in line with the bail conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b90e0697aa42da9743576174791b0c\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: When were Corrections aware that the patched Black Power gang member breached his bail conditions by stopping at four separate locations on the way to his bailed address in the upper Hauraki and when did Corrections report this breach to police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ccd9b8d1c8403a9d80b267953d9ec8\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: There are about 1,500 people on some form of electronic monitoring at any given time. Monitoring is not live tracked, such as on an Uber app. However, if a person were to breach an exclusion zone in line with their conditions, this is flagged; if a person does not arrive at a destination within a certain time, this is flagged. I\u2019m advised the route this person took and the time it took to reach his destination were within the tolerances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220318f1956fde4e2a9df945ed26bbb757\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The question was not about \u201Chow\u201D; the question was \u201Cwhen\u201D, and that was not addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce449630e254bb7a17e2ae19a71a532\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not sure that a breach was established. I\u2019ll ask the member to ask the question again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288db4adefcbd4bde968aca264c2ef01b\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: So, again, the question was: when were Corrections aware that the patched Black Power gang member breached his bail conditions by stopping at four separate locations on the way to his bailed address in the upper Hauraki, and when did Corrections report this breach to the police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298619eb430f543b9bfcd0d215dccf2cd\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I can repeat: I\u2019m advised that the route this person took and the time it took to reach his destination were within the tolerances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c072d9ef1b434f0085e28be7d054d713\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m with Mr Woodhouse on this one. I\u2019m not convinced that the question has been answered. There are some specific facts that have been at least alleged and I think have been fairly well publicised about the individual stopping on the way. I am assuming that at least, by reading the papers, Corrections would be aware of it, and I think it is for the Minister to answer that. It may be that it\u2019s a police matter and that\u2019s his response, but I think the Minister should address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022682dd2688ff2437fbaafdc726fdbc8d0\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes. So it is a police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54612eab6fb4927ba7c78301a20afec\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, how convenient\u2014ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f421220edc4f4792b5e6ee4ab7fe0050\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is for the police to monitor bail conditions, but following the address being deemed unsuitable and the individual returning to custody and testing positive for COVID, Corrections retrospectively looked at the electronic monitoring records. This is when they became aware. So they actually would have looked as soon as the address was unsuitable, done some checks then, and become aware that he had stopped at various places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac59a6e32c643e5ac8ee79dad42bcc9\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: So has he had any conversations with the Minister of Police about why police did not arrest the prisoner after Corrections notified them of the bail breach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e3ff6b93e784ee7b0d3d0fcaa2d0359\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Myself and the Minister of Police talk about a lot of issues all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dc6111f424844cf8129e2a522499a2b\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he therefore think it is unacceptable that no follow-up occurred for 11 days after the patched Black Power gang member breached his bail, which, as a result, saw upper Hauraki placed into an alert level 4 lockdown?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dac7f6bed7ae47988deaae1cf0002e3f\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, the route this person took and the time it took to reach his destination were within the tolerances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228411723692ff4691b59d8e222234615b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health (M\u0101ori Health)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00224339426d36624ef4bb835990075a93e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224339426d36624ef4bb835990075a93e4\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health (M\u0101ori Health): What recent announcements has he made about supporting M\u0101ori to respond to the impacts of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022116b6dbd633b45d7baac19b72855eb0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022116b6dbd633b45d7baac19b72855eb0d\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister of Health (M\u0101ori Health)):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced $36 million of funding to respond to the needs of wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori health providers to support their ongoing work to respond to COVID-19 and to continue their hard mahi towards increasing the rates of M\u0101ori vaccination. The funding will see $17 million to be allocated to help providers adapt their services to support the COVID-19 response while also maintaining their other essential health services; $14 million will help wh\u0101nau access health services, medications, and hygiene products, and it will also help provide greater reach of vaccination, testing, and other health services to hard-to-reach areas; $3 million will strengthen the M\u0101ori psychosocial response, ensuring wh\u0101nau have access to mental health and wellbeing services; and $2 million will ensure providers have sufficient funding to manage the long tail of this response, sustain their efforts, and help them prepare for the possibility of future outbreaks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584064460b51475793da1b7642e506be\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: How will this funding announcement support equitable outcomes for M\u0101ori across the COVID-19 response?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d81542b6f32840aeb1be039f76e388a7\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s top priority is to stamp out the COVID-19 virus. M\u0101ori are one of the most at-risk communities for COVID-19 and the impacts on wh\u0101nau are far-reaching, and therefore require a comprehensive and coordinated response. This Government believes that by investing in our M\u0101ori health providers, their efforts will support equitable outcomes for M\u0101ori across the COVID-19 response. The funding announced yesterday complements the $39 million for COVID-19 support and response announced earlier this year. These providers adopt a kaupapa M\u0101ori and wh\u0101nau-centred approach to service delivery which focuses on meeting the holistic needs of wh\u0101nau. They place the needs of M\u0101ori and their wh\u0101nau at the centre of everything they do. Because these providers are well connected to their communities, they play an important role in delivering communications about the COVID-19 response that is tailored for M\u0101ori communities. Lastly, these providers deliver services that are culturally safe for M\u0101ori, and we know that cultural safety is an important part of delivering high-quality services to M\u0101ori communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216819ec689e64e9ea80c69dab192ceef\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What wider announcements is he aware of that have been made to support M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218873129eff74d839a9010938c1d6abc\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that my hard-working colleague Minister Davis and Te Arawhiti have undertaken significant work with iwi. Throughout lockdown, Ministers held weekly calls with the National Iwi Chairs Forum and other iwi, as well as regular meetings with the T\u0101maki-makau-rau M\u0101ori response collective. This approach is welcomed by iwi M\u0101ori and worked to ensure their voices were heard and allowed the Government to better respond to issues that M\u0101ori were raising on the ground. Te Arawhiti also announced a $1 million targeted fund to support iwi-led COVID-19 communications, support for vaccine uptake, and response planning. I can\u2019t forget the hard-working Minister Jackson and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri (TPK) who have undertaken, across the country, a number of opportunities and announced, yesterday, $2 million to assist M\u0101ori health providers who work directly with TPK to support community-driven local responses and to plug gaps in the vaccination roll-out. And, finally, the awesome work of the humble Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora, who recently announced $23 million to help wh\u0101nau through Wh\u0101nau Ora services, including accessing vaccinations, testing, and self-isolation spaces. This is a Government that listens to and supports M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215162cb44caf411d967a445a7315aeed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s so hard to be humble, isn\u2019t it? Question No. 11, Matt Doocey\u2014you\u2019re not going to read it are you, Mr Doocey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221c925edf23c4088a6d508680eec09e1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002212e53fa8f98342b99de7cd64c2aead56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212e53fa8f98342b99de7cd64c2aead56\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is his response to a study published in the International Journal of Paediatrics and Child Health, which shows attempted suicides in New Zealand children aged 10-14 years increased from a baseline of 40 per month to a peak of 90 per month following the lockdowns in 2020, and what actions, if any, has he taken to address this increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00222fa71cef9c044b488fc511cc6e0c2d0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fa71cef9c044b488fc511cc6e0c2d0c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the first part of the member\u2019s question, I\u2019m advised that the item in the paediatric journal was not a peer-reviewed article; it was a letter to the editor. It included data gathered by the authors. It is not possible for the authors of the study to establish or claim a causal link from the data presented. They are describing a potential association that has not been proven. As the member will be aware, there are a range of factors that contribute to self-harm and suicidal behaviours. I would also highlight that last year, the Chief Coroner was sufficiently concerned by the misreporting of the effects of level 4 lockdown on suicide prevalence that she issued provisional results early during the last lockdown. These showed that, in fact, the incidence of suicide had reduced. In response to the second part of the member\u2019s question, we\u2019ve learnt from previous lockdowns that they are particularly challenging for young people. That is why we boosted funding to Youthline by $275,000 at the beginning of the most recent lockdown. This was made alongside other investments in the youth mental wellbeing space, including the $1.4 million Youth Mental Wellbeing Fund, targeted specifically at grassroots community-led initiatives supporting young people through stress arising from the current COVID-19 Delta response, and targeted suicide prevention support for M\u0101ori and Pacific communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020189be633f47adbe579685f95bf47e\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that he disagrees with the Ministry of Health data that the baseline levels of attempted suicide for 10- to 14-year-olds increased after the lockdowns last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3379dfc7cf41a7901ea28ebf2ba6cb\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not disagreeing with the Ministry of Health data; I am disagreeing with the conclusion that some people wrote in a letter to the editor drawing a thesis that has not so far been proven. Also, what I find disagreeable is that member\u2019s attempt to use as a political football suicide and suicide prevention measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b385bc972904e4290dd454c1e240292\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the acknowledged Ministry of Health data that shows increased attempted suicide rates after the last lockdown, what actions has the Minister taken to prevent even more suicide attempts amongst that age cohort after the current lockdown?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7fc5173b5a427e8b0698f147670340\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to return to the question about data, because what the letter to the editor\u2014the authors of it\u2014did not draw attention to was the established trend in previous multi-year data that shows an increase in presentations to hospitals of people who have attempted suicide. There is what clinicians describe as a seasonal increase that appears every year. There is no reference in the letter to the editor to that incidence. On the point the member raises about additional support that has been given, I refer the member to my answer to his primary question. Significant additional support has been given to those organisations supporting young people who are finding this lockdown particularly tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c04395b40d41d9a0a0a2b6fc66c93d\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: With that significant support, how has that translated to new services on the ground that will address the increase in attempted suicides for 10- to 14-year-olds, as evidenced by the Ministry of Health data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022927565d88363445385c5a93bca58fb88\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I point out to the member again, because I don\u2019t want to get into some ugly debate about the incidence of suicide, and I draw the member\u2019s attention once again to what the data shows on a year-by-year basis: a seasonal increase in presentations to hospitals of people who have attempted suicide. The authors of the letter to the editor have taken data for a single year and drawn a conclusion that so far cannot be established or proven. The measures that have been taken by this Government as a consequence of the most recent lockdown, in terms of additional funding, has allowed those organisations to put on additional staff and provide additional services for an increased period of time for those communities, particularly youth communities, who have found this lockdown particularly hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114bc6564d6c4f26b6d12cf52a331b82\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: In light of published research studies overseas which point to an increased rate of self-harm and eating disorders amongst young people, what steps has the Minister taken to ensure services are available if that increase was to appear in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9161e934d84164851cfb0ed55a71e5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what we didn\u2019t do was what the previous Government did, and that is neglect mental health services as a general rule. We have put considerable additional investment into our mental health services, including responding to exigencies such as the lockdowns in 2020 and in 2021. We put additional funding in, provided additional services and additional support. We did it last year. We have done it this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294d85d506e5f4794a816e1cd79abf501\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u002281ba9b08a0c34220af88972826de3729\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ba9b08a0c34220af88972826de3729\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she satisfied with the current number of constabulary staff in the New Zealand Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022245bfd904ffa41c7ab3eded5be1842b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022245bfd904ffa41c7ab3eded5be1842b6\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I am satisfied that this Government has invested over $450 million in our police, and as a result of this investment, the total police workforce now surpasses 14,000, with 1,223 additional constabulary and authorised officers on the streets since we came to office. I\u2019m also satisfied that we are well on track to deliver the 1,800 new police, including 700 to be focused on organised crime, by June 2023. In addition, I\u2019m also satisfied that my announcement of the new front-line safety programme earlier today will lead to an additional 78 constabulary staff and 28 intelligence analysts being deployed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d3a51aee004f149d31b0d74b2ebdae\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned at the report of the Police Association that the Government has only delivered 1,133 constables of the promised 1,800?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeaf08b616ce4ea293fa4189d2b20aab\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pleased that the member raises this issue. We are absolutely satisfied that we will meet our target by June 2023. We are well on the way. There may be some variances up and down. The Police have advised me today, in discussions with them, that they plan for such variances. It\u2019s a slight dip, as according to the Police News, but I\u2019m very confident that we will meet our targets by June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aafc35d89b82439aa2578340fab9f927\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Minister say to the front-line officer who wrote, \u201C\u2026 the promised 1800 extra cops is starting to look like a pipe dream.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229cb35c541e647a5bd6c7e7e746990eb\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I would say to that officer to not be concerned. Today, we announced an additional 78 constabulary plus 28 analysts to be part of the new front-line programme. But we are well on our way to meeting our 1,800 growth target by 2023. We still have some time for that to occur, and I\u2019m really pleased to say that included in that is the 700 extra police that will go into working on organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255b1920a1feb44fa908c9fb79978c8c1\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that while gang membership is up 50 percent since 2017, the Police Association is reporting the Government is now further away from delivering on their promised 1,800 police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022696f8bfb15b943d198bf3abe36f99d33\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I am confident of is the Police Association support of our announcement today, supporting the investment into front-line safety. What I\u2019m also confident of is us reaching our target for 1,800 by 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed7e57914db46a8b6facd7324e0bdc8\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: What would she say to the person who responded to the news of 667 missing cops by remarking, \u201CWho we gonna call?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d905a88f2f394de09ee063a306aab14b\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: We have invested $450 million since we\u2019ve come to Government, and today announced a further $15 million: $465 million into Police, and a lot of that has gone into ensuring that we can recruit the 1,800 police by 2023, 700 of which will go into organised crime. That member shakes his head, but we have done far more in resourcing our cops to do their job, to do their job safely, and to keep New Zealanders safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc2674608dd487488e3b955e2cf45cf\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true in the last three years of the previous Government police numbers actually fell? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9aabfe6ae30492fa0e8247ca0a8be18\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows that\u2019s not in order. He will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7e9b95a52894426ba3f71824c0cda64\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002271b8fa9e6b804761b04c9150b4b6d97c\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fd0b8e48ab247399ec1d66706303be0\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d37936bdb6d8430aaf6014d55cd6bfd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d37936bdb6d8430aaf6014d55cd6bfd1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to begin today with a shout-out to all New Zealanders. The last 18 months have been difficult and tough and uncertain, and New Zealanders have overwhelmingly risen to the challenge that has been in front of us. We have stamped out COVID-19 time and again, we have made the sacrifices as a country that we need to make that have seen us enjoy some of the lowest levels of restrictions of any country in the world over the last 18 months, and that\u2019s been the hard work and dedication of all New Zealanders that has achieved that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to particularly say thank you to Auckland. Auckland has been at the forefront of our COVID-19 response. They\u2019ve done it tougher than many other New Zealanders, and I say this as a proud Wellingtonian: I take my hat off to Aucklanders and I say thank you on behalf of the rest of the country for the sacrifices that they have made for our COVID-19 response and recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to thank all of our front-line workers. Whether they\u2019re at our border, whether they\u2019re in our managed isolation and quarantine facilities, or whether they are out there day and night vaccinating New Zealanders to keep us safe, thank you to everybody that has been involved in all of those efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think New Zealand is well placed. We are well placed as Auckland goes from level 4 to level 3 to continue to stamp out COVID-19. Elimination of the virus is still within our reach, and that is what we will continue to drive towards. It is also possible that we could achieve one of the highest vaccination rates in the world in a relatively short space of time if New Zealanders continue to come forward and receive vaccination at the rate that they have been over the last eight weeks, and I fully encourage them to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn these times, politicians have an opportunity to lead or to mislead, and I stand firmly on the side of those who are showing leadership through this global pandemic, because there\u2019s been a lot of information that\u2019s been shared lately, but it will have left New Zealanders confused and concerned unnecessarily. We saw more examples of that today, including the irresponsible claim that was put out there just today that mutations of the virus are becoming less deadly and fewer people are getting severely affected by it. Those claims by the Leader of the Opposition are simply irresponsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThousands of people every day around the world continue to die from COVID-19. The last thing responsible leaders in New Zealand should be doing at the moment is saying \u201CDon\u2019t worry, it\u2019s not so bad. It\u2019s getting better.\u201D at a time when we are saying to our most vulnerable communities, where our vaccination rates are the lowest, \u201CPlease come forward and protect yourselves and protect your wh\u0101nau.\u201D from what we know is a deadly virus. The last thing political leaders in New Zealand should be doing is saying, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, it\u2019s all going to get better. The virus isn\u2019t that bad after all.\u201D, which is what we are hearing, unfortunately, from the Leader of the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we\u2019ve got the COVID-19 response spokesperson for the Opposition, who can\u2019t quite decide whether he\u2019s \u201CNostradamus\u201D or \u201CCaptain Hindsight\u201D, because in the \u201CNostradamus\u201D stakes, almost every prediction that he has made has proven to be wrong. His prediction that people weren\u2019t getting the full dose of vaccine because we were getting too many doses out of the vial\u2014wrong. The prediction that we were going to run out of syringes to do the vaccine\u2014wrong. The prediction that there were vaccines just sitting there in fridges waiting for someone because we were giving them to people in a timely manner\u2014wrong. The prediction that the booking system and the inventory system was going to fail and it was all going to be a debacle\u2014wrong. \u201CDebacle\u201D and \u201Cshambles\u201D are words that he uses quite a lot lately. I suspect, sitting in the National Party caucus, they\u2019re words that immediately spring to mind, but it is no way to describe the vaccine roll-out, which has been incredibly successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo when his predictions of the future fail, he then starts to adopt the \u201CCaptain Hindsight\u201D persona, where he looks backwards, knowing what we know now, and tries to point out things that we should have done differently. When we look back in hindsight, there are undoubtedly going to be things that we could have done differently. We make the best decisions that we can make at the time with the evidence and the information that\u2019s available at the time. Chris Bishop\u2019s crystal ball today said that we should have just bought enough Pfizer to vaccinate everybody right from the beginning, despite the fact that the Opposition at the time were claiming that we should have put all of our eggs in the AstraZeneca basket. I recall answering questions in the House about why we hadn\u2019t and why we were too slow in doing that. That was their ultimate answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhether he\u2019s being \u201CNostradamus\u201D or \u201CCaptain Hindsight\u201D, the Opposition spokesperson has been consistently wrong, as have the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2c9cf8cfdfc483c9fba029ae02371d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2c9cf8cfdfc483c9fba029ae02371d3\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Today I want to speak about the \u201CC\u201D word. Don\u2019t worry, Mr Speaker\u2014I\u2019m not going to be talking about my favourite \u201CC\u201D word. I want to talk about capitalism and how it\u2019s failing us. Capitalism, I think people forget, is not a given. It\u2019s not inherent in our political or economic system. It\u2019s a decision to have an economic and political system in which a country\u2019s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit. Free-market capitalism is an economic system that maximises supply and demand forces and minimises Government oversight, regulation, and intervention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ECapitalism sucks. And this pandemic and our housing, biodiversity, and climate crises have really brought that into sharp focus for many people in this country. We know that right now, there are people all around our country, but particularly in Auckland, who are living in really precarious and, frankly, desperate situations. Too many people in casualised and minimum-hour contract jobs, who have locked down for the wellbeing of all of us, have had to battle their bosses to try to get paid enough to keep a roof over their heads and be able to go to the supermarket. This is not an uncommon situation. Two out of five employees in this country work in jobs with hours that vary to suit their employer, not them. This is common in hospitality and also in community and personal services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFIRST Union, being proactive and knowing what might happen, did a TikTok to reach their audience about their employment rights. They were overwhelmed\u2014700,000 people seeing and responding to that. They had to employ more than two new staff members to answer the phone calls of, particularly, young people in this country calling to say, \u201CYou\u2019ve told me my rights, but I don\u2019t know how to access them.\u201D What we\u2019ve heard from multiple unions around this country is examples of employers who should know better, because the law is absolutely clear, and they have no excuse for ignorance, telling employees that they should be taking annual leave instead of being paid by their employer during lockdown. That is illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut the chances for the staff members to fight back against that are really to have a conversation with them, worry about losing their job, pissing their boss off, getting fewer hours, or going through the Employment Court, which has a six- to 12-month resolution time frame. It\u2019s not going to pay your rent in that time frame, which is what people are concerned about. Things are so out of balance, and our welfare system, which forces people to choose between the precariousness of that employment or a guarantee of poverty, is not helping. It shows the myth of employee power as exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWages have been going up since we\u2019ve had a change of Government\u2014thank goodness\u2014but it hasn\u2019t been keeping pace with the cost of living. This really shows, and it\u2019s driven by the fact that most of our essential services, like housing and electricity and transport and childcare, and a lot of our food, are part of the private, the free, market. They\u2019re driven by the drive for profit and not our shared responsibility to each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe have to remember that while people are struggling at this time\u2014and this is what we care about, in part\u2014there are people who are doing really, really well. While our essential workers are putting their bodies on the line for minimum wage, or better than that wages, none of them are coming close to earning as much as an empty house just sitting there earning over $200,000 a year, just to feed that free market and individual wealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThese imbalances aren\u2019t just hurting our people. The free market is also hurting our environment, to the point where externalising of costs through businesses has led to 4,000 of our endemic species being at risk and our emissions going up. This is a global problem, but the tide is turning. Over 80 percent of Britons in the UK recognise the housing crisis as a fault of capitalism. We can change it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7cf362b58ba48deaa20465c357e03a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7cf362b58ba48deaa20465c357e03a2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I briefly want to endorse the work of teams of people around New Zealand and in particular in Auckland who are testing and vaccinating so that we can keep our communities safe. In particular, for those in Mangatangi and Kaiawa, I want to acknowledge the work of Te Korowai Hauora o Hauraki, who have risen to the challenge of ensuring that that particular community and those wh\u0101nau can be tested and move towards vaccination. Securing our recovery means that we need to focus on the issues right in front of us, and that is COVID-19. As the Prime Minister has said, we need to ensure that every wh\u0101nau within all our communities uphold the opportunity that they have to keep them safe and vaccinate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut I also want to focus on the longer-term challenges, because we cannot drop our eye on the ball of some of the most challenging things in front of us. In my particular case, it\u2019s the issue of water. Now, there are two programmes of work that we have in front of us. One has been going through the House, and that\u2019s the Water Services Bill, and the other is a longer piece of work, which is our three waters reform. In reality, for most folk, whether we drink it, swim in it, gather kai from it, water is an important resource. It\u2019s a taonga, and that\u2019s why the changes that I\u2019m seeking are going to make a difference now and into the future. The three waters work programme is set up to ensure that our waters infrastructure is fit for purpose, ensuring that we have safe drinking water, better environmental outcomes, and can ensure that the investment in infrastructure over the long term delivers real benefits to households and communities. What we know is that it\u2019s important to meet the challenges ahead of us, because the cost of meeting higher standards will bear significantly upon councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re starting to hear opposition to what we\u2019re trying to achieve, and at this late stage, three years after we\u2019ve identified the complexity of the challenge, several campaigns have been initiated to try and undermine a simple fact. That simple fact is the status quo is simply not feasible. It is not financially sustainable. We have an inefficient investment strategy around infrastructure; communities, several of them throughout the country, on boil drinking water notices; 34,000 people get sick every year from drinking water; and during heavy weather events, we have stormwater outflows sludging up on our streets and into our waterways. This cannot continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EComing from the Waikato, I know how important it is to look after our waterways. We have the Waikato River there. It\u2019s what sustains and grows us and contributes to the economic opportunities within our region. But we can do more and we should do more. So these programmes of action around three waters are put together to ensure that we meet this challenge and we simply do not say to communities, \u201COh, it\u2019s OK, if you don\u2019t want it, you don\u2019t have to have it.\u201D It\u2019s a serious challenge; it needs to be addressed, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m hopeful that the Water Services Bill, that will enable Taumata Arowai to undertake its role as a dedicated regulator, will work with communities and councils around safe drinking-water supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Federated Farmers and Irrigation New Zealand for their involvement in helping us to ensure that the workability of the bill is able to be achieved, ensuring that all aspects must be tailored according to the scale, complexity, and risk profile of suppliers. We\u2019ve had really good input from those two groups as to how that can be achieved for rural community. This means that we are not applying a one-size-fits-all approach and there will be different arrangements for small and rural suppliers than for council suppliers in cities and towns. We\u2019re going to have a debate later on in the week, but I wanted to send a signal that without the valuable input of communities who in practice understand what we\u2019re trying to achieve and are looking for practical solutions\u2014I\u2019m mindful that their contribution to improving the Water Services Bill has been invaluable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELet me come briefly to the Three Waters Reform Programme. The sector is at a very difficult juncture. To do nothing would be unacceptable. To expect rates to pay for infrastructure investment with the scale that will be required coming down the track is going to be a very difficult task for several councils, and that is the challenge. The decisions ahead of councils will take courage, but it\u2019s what\u2019s best for the nation and what\u2019s best for councils that we need to be focused on, and, importantly, what\u2019s best for the next generation. I\u2019m hopeful, as people have an informed debate based on good information rather than disinformation, we\u2019ll be able to get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222786c164f77141f69efab55c949b4f7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222786c164f77141f69efab55c949b4f7d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the Hon David Bennett, I know that there are some members who are in the House this week who haven\u2019t been here for the last couple, but I want to remind members when they\u2019re wearing masks that they should keep them on in the House and if they\u2019re having private conversations they shouldn\u2019t remove their masks in order to do so. If they can\u2019t hear each other, they should leave the Chamber and have their conversation outside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd50a61946cd4349b4dabaa6b240edf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd50a61946cd4349b4dabaa6b240edf3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Government introduced the Land Transport (Clean Vehicles) Amendment Bill which, effectively, is a tax on middle New Zealand, it is a tax break for the wealthy in New Zealand, and it is an attack on the most vulnerable New Zealanders. That is the net impact of a bill which gives a discount to somebody that is paying for an electric vehicle (EV). It charges somebody that is buying any other type of vehicle, and it really does create a distortion in the New Zealand vehicle market that will lead to only one major consequence, and that is the retention by vulnerable, ordinary New Zealanders of high-emission vehicles that are unsafe and will actually hurt our environmental prospects as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is bad law that is doomed to failure. It is law that is based on some premise of an understanding of the market that the Government does not have. It is a law that is based on some kind of perception of how people will actually act. It is a law that is not based on any concept of reality of what the supply of electric vehicles is, what the opportunity is for New Zealanders to get electric vehicles, and how New Zealanders will actually react in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders live in a country which is very diverse. It is a spread-out population. It is not a country which is solely part of one major city or two major cities; it is a diverse and spread-out country that relies on its transport networks. It relies on people having a vehicle to get around. It relies on people having a vehicle to do their job. A tradie and a farmer can\u2019t catch a bus to do their job. They\u2019re not going to be able to put their tools on the back of a cycle and cycle down the road to do their job. A farmer is not going to be able to feed their stock on the back of a cycle. We are living in a country in which the reality is that we need vehicles. This legislation will be an artificial constraint on the market, it will distort the market, and it will lead to perverse outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EMost New Zealanders have a very limited income compared with the rest of the world. That is why we have a huge amount of second-hand used imports into this country. Those vehicles, now, will have a huge cost on them, and that will put it out of the reach many Kiwis that would be reinventing their vehicle by getting a newer vehicle every so often. That will force them to hold those older vehicles. There will be more and more repairs done on gas-guzzling vehicles that will not achieve environmental outcomes. Most tradies and farmers have no option for an EV because there are none actually being built, and most consumers that want to buy a vehicle under $80,000 will actually not find there is an EV because they\u2019re going to have to compete with the Australians for those same EVs on the world market. Guess what! In Japan\u2014which is the type of market where our vehicles come from\u2014only 0.6 percent of that market is actually EV vehicles. So there\u2019s, virtually, very constrained and limited supply of EV vehicles anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt can only lead to one solution: New Zealanders will look at that Government legislation and determine their only option is to keep the vehicle they\u2019re in now or they\u2019re going to have to pay a tax to this Government. Either way, that\u2019s the cost of living going up for New Zealanders. Ordinary New Zealanders\u2014the most vulnerable New Zealanders\u2014won\u2019t be able to get the benefit of having an EV with lower costs of running their vehicle. They\u2019ll be paying higher petrol taxes under this Government, they\u2019ll be paying more daily to actually run those older vehicles. The dream that this Government has that we will suddenly all transition to electric vehicles\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef5c1162171f4257980cbba2d8e4dbfa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Run by coal!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f5cdb7470ce4a61a4a995e108d51967\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that will all be perfect, and they\u2019ll be run by coal coming out of Huntly, is the massive dream that they\u2019ve got; it will not become the reality you will see in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Motor Industry Association have bagged this Government like you\u2019ve never seen before\u2014under this Government\u2014in their press release, and there\u2019s an interesting part of that as well. The actual protocol that this Government has determined to evaluate a vehicle is, actually, a European protocol, whereas all vehicles basically coming to New Zealand are from an Australian protocol which doesn\u2019t use that protocol\u2014an Australian approach. So their policy is ineffective, inefficient, it is a tax on New Zealanders, and will hurt the most vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00221bef565fe40242cebc72eee07a1197e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bef565fe40242cebc72eee07a1197e8\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister of Health (M\u0101ori Health)):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I join my colleagues on this side of the House in thanking the team of 5 million for the work that they\u2019ve done through the most recent lockdown, in particular my own electorate, T\u0101maki-makau-rau. T\u0101maki-makau-rau have come together over the past five weeks to do their best to stamp out COVID-19. We have seen record vaccination numbers. We have seen record testing numbers. We have seen innovation. We have seen buses delivering vaccines, and today I want to acknowledge Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, who are in the driver\u2019s seat of one particular bus, and they\u2019ve named their bus Shot Doy. \u201CShot Doy\u201D\u2014now, that must be one of those Boot Hill Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua ki \u014Cr\u0101kei nuances in their language, but it\u2019s certainly working, and they\u2019re getting out amongst their community to do the mahi. The bus yesterday, led by Manurewa Marae, is called Shot Cuz, and Shot Cuz was parked outside the Pak \u2019N Save in Clendon, where there is a large M\u0101ori and Pacific population. This is our M\u0101ori health providers and our health providers across this country doing what it takes to recognise the seriousness of the situation and vaccinate our population\u2014not spread misinformation, not spread lies, and not bicker about things, actually, in a time when we want our country to be combined as a team of 5 million to get us through this particularly hard time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve talked about the innovation amongst our M\u0101ori health providers. Yesterday, I announced $36 million to continue to support that work. While we focus on vaccination and testing, which are hugely important, we also know that some of our, in particular, hard-to-reach rural communities are struggling just for normal healthcare services. Of the money we announced yesterday, $14 million will help M\u0101ori health providers provide those services to rural areas. We know some of them are access to pharmacies, access to medicines\u2014medicines that they would take normally but can\u2019t access because of the challenges we\u2019ve had with the lockdown. I want to acknowledge our M\u0101ori health providers who have come to us and have told us about the challenges they\u2019re facing, and I can tell them and this country that this Government is listening. The announcement yesterday will continue to support the work that they\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAnother important part is the $3 million I mentioned earlier in the sitting of this House to support psychosocial support. We know there are a lot of challenges for our wh\u0101nau out there. In fact, I hear it regularly, as I\u2019m sure many members of this House have, that wh\u0101nau are struggling with their mental wellbeing during these times. Staying home, looking after the tamariki, making sure that they can connect with their loved ones during a time where it\u2019s difficult to connect has certainly taken its toll on our people. The $3 million announced yesterday I know will help one particular kaupapa that will look to support those with alcohol and drug addictions who have particularly struggled during the time of the Delta lockdown. And furthermore, we know that with huge amounts of alcohol sales during this most recent lockdown, there have been a number of challenges that have arisen in our communities and in our families. We want to be able to support the good work that community providers do on the ground to support them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to tip my hat to businesses in this country. We know that the Government can do what it can do, we know that health providers can do what they can do, but we know that the private sector has a job and a role to play. Vodafone yesterday announced incentives to make sure that we can bring people forward for the vaccine. Waipapa Pine in Te Tai Tokerau has made the vaccine available to all of its staff, knowing full well that 70 to 78 percent of their staff are M\u0101ori. They have brought the vaccine centre into their workplace to continue to encourage their kaimahi to be able to receive the vaccine. Why is that important? Because we need our economy to continue. We need our economy to be strong and resilient. And these private sector organisations, they recognise that, and they are doing their part as a team of 5 million to make sure that we can get on with life as normal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ELast week was Te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori, and, as a passionate te reo M\u0101ori speaker, I\u2019m encouraged by the work of millions across Aotearoa who have done a fantastic job to promote Te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori. Just a little friendly reminder for our friends on the other side of the House: Te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori starts on Manei, or Monday, not on Wenerei, Wednesday. It was a little while before the National Party actually clicked on that it was M\u0101ori Language Week, but they got there in the end, which is encouraging, but still disappointing in the week of the M\u0101ori language. I said, in my last contribution in the House, the beauty about being bilingual is the play between M\u0101ori and English, and I used a particular k\u014Drero last time, which was, \u201CBe a doer, and not a hua.\u201D That\u2019s about receiving the vaccine. The one I want to leave with the House today is, \u201CDon\u2019t be a tero, and get the wero.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f5d6d7151e54701a2a1dc6bb4d80e73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f5d6d7151e54701a2a1dc6bb4d80e73\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to acknowledge the last Minister\u2019s acknowledgment of rural New Zealand, and that\u2019s where the acknowledgment is going to stop, because Labour has an insatiable appetite for amalgamation. We\u2019ve seen the centralised and controlled agenda with planning and resourcing management, with vocational education and training, and with healthcare in terms of centralising or planning to centralise the DHBs. We\u2019re now seeing it with the three waters reform, which the Government must dump. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe four regional water entities that the Government has proposed would strip power from our communities. These are assets that ratepayers have paid to own over decades. These would be surrendered from council control and bundled into new entities, with virtually no accountability\u2014four entities where people don\u2019t even realise or have any affinity to the geographical boundaries that are being suggested. And then what would councils have left to do when their water assets are taken out of their power? Tangi Utikere might understand this as a former councillor before he came to Parliament. If the water is taken away, what else would councils have left to do? Oh, I know, that\u2019s part of the plan to grab something else and centralise further. We can see it coming. So what is a better, more accessible system: water assets controlled by your council whose meetings one can turn up to, or by a mega entity spanning hundreds of kilometres and multiple layers of decision makers? I know what the National Party prefer, and we prefer those people in local areas to have local control. This Government grabs everything it can, and what they can\u2019t grab, they tie up in red tape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe talk about centralisation on one hand, and then we go to the Water Services Bill, which we were debating last night. The Water Services Bill again emphasis how deeply out of touch Labour are with rural New Zealand, and that is why I commended the last speaker for mentioning rural New Zealand. But this is not just a rural New Zealand issue, because it affects marae, it affects bach owners; it doesn\u2019t just affect farmers. The worst thing about it is that this bill is not an isolated new hurdle for farmers; it\u2019s the latest in a flood of regulations that are being rained down on our rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon and I started a petition. We were supposed to debate the Water Services Bill on the first Wednesday that we came back into Parliament but we were locked down in the interim, so it didn\u2019t happen. So instead we started a petition and we did some live streaming and we ended up doing Zooms, talking to people, and today that milestone of that petition has just jumped over 15,000 signatures\u201415,000 people who do not want this Water Services Bill to happen. I acknowledge Christopher Luxon who is not with us today. He is Auckland due to COVID lockdown\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c90c106be8d846058ea3700bcd1c50db\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Restrictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c784044b3b334e328ea3c642d3fa0793\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014restrictions\u2014thank you, Stuart. So he wasn\u2019t able to speak on the bill last night but he has been absolutely instrumental in putting this petition together. I really acknowledge that he can\u2019t be here to speak on it but he has put a Supplementary Order Paper together, and he has put that together to ask that we restrict the regulations around the Water Services Bill to those who service more than 30 water source points. That is sensible because lots of people supply other people with water, and I can see those water pipes being withdrawn pretty carefully and pretty strategically before any of this is implemented, so that they don\u2019t have to go through this red-tape strangulation\u2014more of what this Government is trying to push our communities in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe used to be number eight wire people, and now all we get is strangulation by red tape. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6a2bce67e304aec84286a9c22088274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6a2bce67e304aec84286a9c22088274\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going to pick up the wero and not be a tero, as put down by our colleague the Hon Peeni Henare. In particular, I want to talk today and use this contribution to talk about the vaccinations. I want to acknowledge that there are many of our wh\u0101nau at home that are still feeling a little bit scared. One of my relations put up a post on social media recently, and she said, \u201CYou know, look, some of us are still pretty scared about the vaccination. Don\u2019t make us feel stink about it. Some of us probably have a lot of other things going on in our lives, and try to listen to us, and listen with wisdom, without judgment.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EMy relation and I, we had a conversation about her post, and she said, \u201CCuz, there\u2019s just so much information flying around online. One of my cousins is scared about maybe if they get the vaccination, it will cause heart attacks;\u201D\u2014that\u2019s been some of the information online\u2014\u201Cif they get the vaccination, they\u2019ll become magnetic.\u201D\u2014we\u2019ve seen spoons on the internet sticking to people\u2019s arms. Sometimes we have a bit of a giggle about that, but the reality is that for some of our wh\u0101nau, this is very, very real. So I will pick up Peeni Henare\u2019s challenge to us all to pick up the wero and try and put my case as to why it is so important that our wh\u0101nau right now get vaccinated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ERight now in Aotearoa, M\u0101ori vaccination rates are around about just over 50 percent, comparatively to the rest of the population at just over 70 percent\u2014about 74 percent today. In 1918, the M\u0101ori death rate from the Spanish flu, as it was called then, was around seven times that of non-M\u0101ori. In 1956, the pandemic that it was then\u2014it was called the Asian flu pandemic\u2014our M\u0101ori death rates were around six times that of non-M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI look up my coast, in my electorate of the East Coast, Te Wh\u0101nau-\u0101-Apanui. Thirteen hap\u016B that litter that coastline\u201413 mass graves of people that were buried during that 1916 flu pandemic. I look to Te Wh\u0101nau-\u0101-Apanui because they are a tribe that has looked to their history in terms of\u2014those mass graves are so much a part, woven into the story, of the remembrance of the people up that coastline right now. They have shown incredible leadership to destigmatise the impacts of the vaccination. They have this wonderful doctor there, Dr Rachel Thomson, who has built the trust over many years, working alongside the hap\u016B up there. Their iwi tribal leadership have gone around, talked to the wh\u0101nau, delivered crayfish, and whatnot. They will have one of the highest vaccination rates in Aotearoa per population because that 1916 memory is so alive in their DNA, wiping out almost a generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe only have to cast our eyes overseas. In particular I\u2019m thinking of just last year at the start of the pandemic when things were really rearing their head\u2014our relations over in North America, the Din\u00E9 population of the Navajo Nation. The COVID-19 pandemic ravaged through that nation, unvaccinated at that time. The death rates were immeasurable. I was looking at a report earlier today, and it was called COVID-19\u2014The Results by Colour or something like that. It was published in March this year. Again, if we look across the ocean to our relations in North America, those that have died the most: Native Americans; the second, African Americans; the third, Pacific Island Americans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIt would be wrong if we were to stand here in this House and not deeply be concerned about the impacts of COVID-19 on our wh\u0101nau, and that is why you see so many people on this side of the House pleading for our wh\u0101nau to go and get vaccinated. The brother talked about the buses and the whatnot. We\u2019re thinking about everything we can do, because we are fearful that the misinformation being spread amongst our communities will prohibit our wh\u0101nau from being vaccinated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo with the very brief moments that I have left, my plea to our wh\u0101nau is that our vaccinations protect us and they save lives. The polio pandemic that killed so many people\u2014300 million people in the world\u201499 percent of that has been eradicated because of vaccination. Please, wh\u0101nau, get vaccinated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00221b130594efbf4158a1562721a6f8d6e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b130594efbf4158a1562721a6f8d6e0\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Two dozen daffodils bloomed on my desk just this week, and it\u2019s hard not to smile when you\u2019re looking at daffodils. They are beautiful. They\u2019re beautiful flowers. They spring up at just the right time to let us know that it\u2019s time to turn off the electric blankets, that it\u2019s time to place our running shoes closer to the front door for that little bit of motivation for summer, and it\u2019s time to start dusting off the barbecue for friends and family to come around and spend some time in the sun together. They represent new life, new hope, and resilience for a long winter that\u2019s just past. But these particular daffodils, even though they\u2019re beautiful, are hard to look at, and it\u2019s because they\u2019re different. I was outside of Parliament last week and I saw flower growers who were sharing their story of the struggle that they have faced not being able to sell their flowers under the alert level restrictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere are hundreds of thousands of flowers that have been dumped up and down New Zealand and have continued to do so in Auckland because they are the only primary sector producer and grower that is unable to sell their goods under level 4 conditions. They are really, really struggling, and that\u2019s because they\u2019re not considered an essential service. That\u2019s a little bit hard for these people to stomach, especially when people are able to get ice creams and chocolate croissants delivered straight to their door. There are a whole range of different services, but these particular people have not been deemed essential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from many other types of businesses that have been struggling because they\u2019ve been forced to shut or they\u2019ve been under restricted conditions up and down New Zealand, and they\u2019re asking for more certainty and more logical rules for what is allowed to open and operate and under what alert levels. We\u2019ve heard from butchers who are frustrated that people can go to their local dairy, pick up some goods, but they can\u2019t pop just next door and pick up meat at the same time. They have to drive further distances, stand in line with more people at large supermarkets while these businesses suffer. And that\u2019s just not right. It\u2019s also surprising that the Government is not allowing these types of businesses to operate at the same time that they have an enquiry saying that there is not enough competition against the big supermarket chains. It does make you pause and question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard from cafe owners who are struggling with the last minute changes that they had to alert level 2. Even though they can operate, the changes make it unprofitable even to do so with the minimum and maximum restrictions on how many people you can have. It appears that the Government just does not understand how businesses work and how they operate. The Government can print billions of dollars if it wants to, but companies and small businesses can\u2019t do that. We know that there are a number of small businesses that took out loans in the last lockdown and don\u2019t have the ability even now to pay those back. Their banks won\u2019t allow them another loan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe rules are illogical. How is it possible that you can send wine to somebody special under alert level 4, but you can\u2019t send them flowers? Not only is it unromantic, it is illogical. We need to have a better wellbeing approach for small businesses. We need to have it set out that businesses that can operate safely can do so, not just using a blunt description of what is essential. The Government also knew about Delta months ago. They should have planned accordingly and not changed the rules at the last minute for businesses. They need to have these plans out in place earlier so businesses can plan their own business accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThese daffodils, while a sad story, show a blunt problem for business. What does the future look like? Hope and resilience can so quickly turn into withering on a compost heap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224f5feaac232c412096eb15df20938eab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f5feaac232c412096eb15df20938eab\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I think it is fair to say, as the last speaker pointed out, that the burden of COVID-19 in this Delta outbreak certainly doesn\u2019t fall evenly. We need to be cognisant of that, recognising, for example, that our friends and colleagues in Auckland are doing it particularly tough and that some businesses are hit a lot harder. Some are able to work remotely; some are essential services, but others indeed struggle much more. There is a lot being done in that space with wage subsidies, with resurgence support payments, and I know that this Government won\u2019t stop looking at how to help so that New Zealand has a strong and resilient recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI know here in Christchurch we\u2019re lucky. The rest of the country outside of Auckland and Waikato are fortunate that we\u2019re emerging from this outbreak, but even then I do want to recognise that some of those businesses are still struggling. I\u2019ve been speaking in Christchurch Central to cafes like Belle Cafe in New Regent Street, which is doing its very best to adhere to all the rules, and that\u2019s how we get on top of it\u2014and the theatres. Little Andromeda theatre, a great little theatre\u2014but it is difficult. Good Times Comedy Club\u2014again, a great little business in the centre of Christchurch. But I do also want to shout out to the Cashel Street pharmacy where not only are they managing to run a small business but they\u2019re delivering vaccines as well, and Anabel Turley there is doing a great job running that pharmacy. And to all of those people who are delivering vaccines, I know how hard they\u2019re working because I\u2019ve heard from them personally. I know that they go home exhausted at night. I know that they\u2019re at the front, the very forefront, of the battle against COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut look, the daffodils are absolutely up in Christchurch. Hagley Park is looking glorious. And it\u2019s great that people now, because we have stuck together and followed the rules, can get out and enjoy all of Christchurch and all of what\u2019s going on there. So look, an absolute shout-out to those vaccinators. Vaccination absolutely is the key. There are so many good reasons to vaccinate. I was contacting some of my constituents, asking them for their stories, and I must say, I got a few cheeky ones about who people would like to be spending more time with. But ultimately, you know, first and foremost, we\u2019re vaccinating for ourselves because COVID is a horrific disease, and to suggest that it\u2019s getting in some way less deadly or less virulent is truly pernicious. We need to make the message very clear that this disease kills people. It kills people from all walks of life, from all ethnicities and all ages, and we need to address that. And the best way to address that is through vaccinations, but also for our wh\u0101nau and our families and for our extended communities, we, by vaccinating, protect them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo even if people have some hesitancy and for themselves wouldn\u2019t make that choice, they should be doing it for the ones that they love so that we can get together and so that we can do things like go to funerals, go to weddings and so on. And a shout-out to Sam and Dayna, who got married recently. It was their third attempt, not third marriage, but third attempt of getting married to each other\u2014twice cancelled. Third time they had a very modest wedding with 50 people strictly following those rules. But that\u2019s the sort of thing where it would be great, if we\u2019re all vaccinated, we can have those huge celebrations that we love so much. And of course, so we can travel, so that we can open up our borders, so that we can get people from overseas who we love to see and, of course, our fantastic tourism industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, you know, what I say is: if you\u2019ve got a hesitant friend, have a chat to them. And can I just say, don\u2019t argue with them. It\u2019s not about having an argument; it\u2019s about engaging. It\u2019s about listening. It\u2019s not just about telling and preaching. It\u2019s about listening and hearing concerns and addressing them, but with facts, not with falsehoods. And also, look to experts, not the internet. We need to make sure that our sources of information are trusted and not alarmist, because there is a problem out there, and each of us in this House need to be advocates to make sure that the misinformation is not spread, to ensure that those people who are persuadable, who might be wavering, who might be listening to the wrong people, are talked to and that that is addressed. But also, let\u2019s just show compassion to others as well, compassion to those who are working so hard, compassion to some of those people who do things a bit differently. Some of our disabled community do feel under siege and I want to say: let\u2019s make sure that they looked out for. But most of all, let\u2019s get vaccinated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00220109d2ba69a548faa6619d7071ff49c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220109d2ba69a548faa6619d7071ff49c3\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d just like to carry on a bit of a theme from this afternoon about doing a little bit of myth-busting, and bring a little story of hope to the room. It\u2019s great to hear the focus on securing our recovery, and vaccinations are a significant part of the plan, but we also need to have a look at the challenge. There\u2019s been some suggestion the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund has gone to projects unrelated to COVID. The PM reminded us today that the fund is to help with economic recovery and create jobs. I just want to take you to a fabulous little Taranaki - King Country place called \u014Ctorohanga and show you how this fund, this investment, is helping not only with the recovery and creating jobs but helping us build back better our environment, our tourism industry, the development of our people, and our small towns. Significant aspects of funding are Jobs for Nature funding, the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme, apprenticeship support, the Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, and infrastructure funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt isn\u2019t just the funding, though. It isn\u2019t just the cash. It takes people, relationships, and communities to make the most of the opportunities, to be ambitious and to dream. So at \u014Ctorohanga Kiwi House\u2014fabulous little place, been around for 50 years, so many of us may have visited\u2014they are embracing all of the opportunities. They\u2019re supporting a range of new staff. They\u2019ve got two extra trainee keepers. They\u2019ve got an apprentice carpenter\u2014so a big shout-out to Hayze; he\u2019s doing some amazing work up there as they go to rebuild their Kiwi House. It isn\u2019t just support for wages, for tools, for getting these young people to get their driver\u2019s licences, but the mentoring needed to make sure that they don\u2019t just get a job but they stay there and they become really great contributing citizens in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re also providing training to Jobs for Nature workers from other projects, so they\u2019re helping to lift our capacity and our capability as we rise to the challenge of improving our biodiversity and our environment. They\u2019re helping to retain people in our local communities who may have had to leave as a result of the challenges on sectors such as tourism in Taranaki - King Country. They\u2019re building the capacity of our critical conservation workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThe \u014Ctorohanga Kiwi House has used the significant funding to help them with the recovery, their conservation work that they do. Traditionally, this has been funded through visitors to the centre, so they\u2019ve been able to carry on and actually grow their conservation programmes. They support seven recovery programmes, including breeding North Island brown kiwi, whio, tuatara, p\u0101teke, North Island k\u0101k\u0101, and the Mahoenui giant w\u0113t\u0101\u2014a fabulous beast, if you ever get to meet one. Communities around the country\u2014local communities, farmers, backyard volunteers who are trying to restore the biodiversity and grow our predator-free landscape\u2014are really, really grateful for the significant national contribution that the Kiwi House is able to sustain because of the support of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThey have also been able to take on a commitment to a significant rebuild and extension of their physical spaces because of the capital investment and support from the local district council but the country as a whole. This will ensure 190 jobs as they do the rebuild, and they are going to literally build back better. These are amazing, ambitious people. They have undertaken a globally ambitious project of not only rebuilding and extending the Kiwi House but to participate and be the first zoo on the planet to get their accreditation for the Living Building Challenge, a truly ambitious green project. They are reimagining our tourism sector. They are building a quality visitor experience, education experience, and the provision of breeding and support for our biodiversity and predator-free projects around the North Island. I just need to shout out to them. They\u2019re doing amazing work. This isn\u2019t about centralisation. This is about supporting local people to be able to be nimble and effective in their responses. I think they\u2019re amazing and admirable in the way that they have been ambitious and they can see a future, a bold and bright one, for our people, for our kiwi, and for our little towns. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226fb8478574bd4418832fa87a25ea1eb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fb8478574bd4418832fa87a25ea1eb8\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish to start by acknowledging the hard work of New Zealanders in the first lockdown and in this current lockdown. There\u2019s something special about this country. The teamwork that the people of New Zealand have shown to get through this and to get to the point where we are now, where we have a genuine chance of eliminating COVID yet again must be acknowledged. At the forefront of that team are our frontline health workers. I want to acknowledge those that are working particularly hard in Auckland and those that are in Auckland that have done it so tough. But as the MP for Wairarapa, I wish to acknowledge the frontline health workers in my electorate, in Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, in the Tararua district, and in Wairarapa. Wairarapa is leading the country in the rates of full vaccination and it is down to the commitment of those workers and it is down to the teamwork of the people that live there. That, I believe, needs to be commended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe in Wairarapa know that whilst we are small, we are not immune. We were the first region to have community transmission in the country, but we were the first region to eliminate COVID at the last lockdown and we have not had a community case since then. That, I think, stands New Zealand out. But I think it is a shame that the Leader of the Opposition chooses to undermine that teamwork by coming out with, I believe, some outrageous statements today. It is utterly irresponsible for the Leader of the Opposition to suggest that there are new mutations of COVID that are less deadly. It is utterly irresponsible to suggest, in my view, that there should be no more lockdowns. What has stood New Zealand out from those overseas is that we have stuck together as a team. We have not protested in large numbers. We have recognised what needs to be done and just got on with it. What if half of the 6 percent of New Zealanders that want Judith Collins to be Prime Minister take this seriously and refuse to comply with the regulations? That is a not insignificant proportion of the country that could ruin it for the rest of us because they are listening to what she has to say. No wonder she has refused to attend Morning Report this morning. No wonder they have banned National MPs from talking to the media before coming to question time, because those comments and those views are utterly irresponsible and they cannot be defended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI thought it was the reason to come down to Parliament. I thought the reason why they demanded to come here, to travel down from level 4 to come to Parliament, was to be able to have the opportunity to front up in front of the media. And today they refused their MPs and denied the opportunity to do so. I wonder if that\u2019s because they polled 21 percent. I actually think it\u2019s because they realise that their comments today are indefensible, that they undermine the COVID response, that they undermine the teamwork and hard work of so many New Zealanders. It was because of that teamwork and the lockdown and the elimination strategy that got New Zealand to the point where we had the largest economic growth in the OECD. It was because of that that got New Zealand to the point of having the lowest unemployment rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThey say they stand up for business, but it is the strong health response of this Government that has delivered for business. It is their calls to loosen restrictions\u2014and let\u2019s not forget, they called for us to open up to China. They called for us to open up to Australia way earlier than it was safe. They even called for us to open up to Fiji, although I note they haven\u2019t said that one for a while. All of those things would have undermined the achievements that the team of 5 million worked so hard to do. And I say that is why no one is listening to them, because when they are listened to, they say the indefensible, they undermine our COVID response. What if New Zealand legitimately needed to go into lockdown yet again because of their attitude, people say, \u201COh well, this isn\u2019t going to work.\u201D? That completely unravels the teamwork and the structure that this country has built over so many months. We have an opportunity to eliminate COVID if people stick to the guidelines. But listening to that rot, people may consider that it is not worth it. And I say to the people of New Zealand: it is worth it, the guidelines have worked so far. Stick to it, get vaccinated. We will get back through this again. We\u2019ll be in level 1 if you follow the guidelines and ignore the rubbish that that side is telling you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00222b36b911ac784e0096959bd79f887836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b36b911ac784e0096959bd79f887836\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I\u2019d like to start by actually acknowledging the great work\u2014that Labour have finally come to the realisation that vaccinations are important. It may be nine months too late\u2014certainly hope it\u2019s not too late. It\u2019s certainly nine months later than it should have been. They were slow to order the vaccines, slow to get it approved, and then they delayed the roll-out of the vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b93e6b345b5e436ab8b76bda2c85082b\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Not true!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac1bece593b34767afb0d9e0db07f54a\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely true, and it\u2019s a shame\u2014it\u2019s a shame. But, look, they\u2019ve come to it now, and good on Peeni Henare and Kiritapu Allan for encouraging wh\u0101nau to get out there and get vaccinated. I think that\u2019s a very good message and one that we have been promoting for nine months at least. But I want to go into another matter, which I know you\u2019ll be very concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EFour weeks ago\u2014just when we came back to Parliament\u2014the Hon James Shaw said that he wouldn\u2019t come to Parliament because \u201CIt would literally put lives at risk.\u201D Then, a week later, he said he was going to the UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) in Glasgow. Now, COP26 is a very important meeting\u2014mind you, all those COPs are important\u2014but he\u2019s taking nine officials with him offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf79e95416343b498d0d57596e0e84c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226447eae1f68f4d00b54b689e5388db0d\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Nine. That\u2019s from here. He\u2019s also taking five from overseas, but there will be 10 people going over there. Isn\u2019t that going to put lives at risk as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EFor your information, Mr Speaker\u2014I know you\u2019ll be interested in this\u2014yesterday Scotland had 2,870 cases of COVID. That\u2019s a hundred times more cases than we had four weeks ago, when James Shaw made that statement. So these two things don\u2019t match up. That\u2019s about the same size population\u2014they\u2019ve got about 400,000 or 500,000 more people than we do in their population. You would think that\u2019s a hundred times more dangerous. James Shaw doesn\u2019t think that\u2019s important; I think it is. Now, maybe he knows something I don\u2019t. But he hasn\u2019t old us that. All in this interim time, was he actually advocating for a Zoom component of that COP meeting? It\u2019s a really important meeting. Maybe the lives weren\u2019t at risk. If they were, then his first statement was, shall we say, not fulsome with the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c338f16f1074dbd98797f7a50f686a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d44bfb0f864a44b1a7b8dbf761f947\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I heard you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b229037eb5b34654adc9886bdf7f7d86\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think the member will withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911be5b43b9f44ebb542500772bb2f7d\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. He told Newshub yesterday morning that he was 15,000 on the list for a managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) space\u201415,000, right? And we know that, when it was opened up, there were 25,000 people in the queue for 3,000 spaces. So does Mr Shaw seriously expect us to believe that he\u2019s planning a huge trip to COP in Glasgow and he\u2019s relying on the lottery to get spaces in MIQ for him and for the other nine officials that are going over with them? I don\u2019t think so. That is ridiculous. And then, of course, in the gallery presser before question time yesterday, the Prime Minister dropped him completely in it, because she was asked about this and she said, \u201CWell, no, the delegation will get priority through the national interest criteria.\u201D Did James Shaw not know about this? Did the other nine officials not know about this? I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAnd then, when you look\u2014not you, Mr Speaker, as I\u2019m sure you will later on, go and have a look on the website, the MIQ website\u2014that national special interest criteria is very strict. It\u2019s a minimum group of 20 people. So is James Shaw again not being fulsome? Are there actually going to be 20 people going to COP from here? Or is he just going to have 20 rooms? I don\u2019t know. But I know every other electorate MP in this House, and, I\u2019m sure, list MPs as well, are getting emails from people desperate to get back to New Zealand, desperate to get back to New Zealand for family reasons, for compassionate reasons\u2014deaths in families, serious illnesses. People whose visas have run out are stuck overseas and they can\u2019t get back in; they can\u2019t get MIQ spaces. There are no spaces for them and yet James Shaw and nine officials, and perhaps another 10, are going to take up valuable MIQ spaces that those people could have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think that\u2019s good enough. I don\u2019t think he\u2019s thought about this. I think it\u2019s disrespectful to the people of New Zealand, particularly those overseas with really heartrending stories\u2014and I know; I have people sobbing on the other end of the phone trying to get an MIQ space. I think it\u2019s just disgraceful, and he has to rethink his position\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221d671c69ec104f3b857c91147c421610\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d671c69ec104f3b857c91147c421610\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d54b37f244a4282a1a9d5ca26aa0a8f\u0022\u003EHuman Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022734ced8b876248e3af55ae0de39f6251\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbe1446365f34d49a0faa55a9112d7b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbe1446365f34d49a0faa55a9112d7b7\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March: I move, That the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f9451342b2048a486b0337d0397c984\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just going to interrupt the member and say that she moves on behalf of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f3f1edc572f4df29a39472adf406575\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh great\u2014thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d1a3a297544f97b98b498a250b9122\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. The member can continue now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d1400b0fb34837b11bd96c6e11dd0a\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt is a huge honour for me to stand in the House today and present this speech for Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, whose name this bill is in. Firstly, on his behalf and my own, I want to acknowledge former Green MP Mojo Mathers, who drafted this bill in 2015 after hearing from disabled people with disability assist dogs of the discrimination they faced. One of the stories that Mojo heard over five years ago now was the one from the late Murray Whittington and his dog, Frodo, who faced discrimination when looking for rentals. Murray spoke to the New Zealand Herald of his challenges, and we want to acknowledge him and the many others for sharing their stories and fighting for an accessible society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt is a pretty simple bill, in fact, that will make a small but nevertheless tangible difference\u2014as I would say, a perfect member\u2019s bill. When Mojo first launched this bill, she said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe [still] have a long way to go to make New Zealand a fully inclusive, accessible country, where people who have disabilities can live free from discrimination. I was determined to create my \u2026 Member\u2019s Bill after hearing stories of New Zealanders being denied rental accommodation purely because they have a disability assist dog. This sort of discrimination should not be happening in 21st century New Zealand. Finding somewhere to live is already hard enough, but to have your rental application turned down time and time again purely because you have a disability assist dog is just wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u201CDisability assist dogs are more than just your average mutt. [They] perform many different tasks, such as retrieving objects for people in wheelchairs, or alerting deaf people to fire alarms or door bells\u2014they are \u2026 critically important [to] their owners\u2019 lives. New Zealanders with disabilities should not be discriminated against because they need a disability assist dog to make their lives easier and more fulfilling. The law should unequivocally support New Zealanders living with disability and prevent discrimination\u2014my Bill is the next step in that process and I hope there\u2019ll be widespread support for it [when] it\u2019s drawn.\u201D It has now been drawn and I am hoping for that support today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis bill was written by Mojo to address discrimination for people with disability assist dogs, with an amendment to the Human Rights Act 1993 to include a definition of \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D to make it clear that any individual, organisation, or business that discriminates against a person\u2014for example, by denying a service to that person on the basis that they have or use a disability assist dog\u2014then they are, in fact, denying the service to a person on the basis of their disability and, therefore, illegally discriminating against them. A \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D is helpfully set out in the Dog Control Act as a dog certified by an organisation specified in that Act as being a dog trained to assist or being a dog in training to assist a person with a disability, and while the Dog Control Act says an assist dog can enter and remain in any public space, there\u2019s no clear way to seek resolution under the Dog Control Act like there is with the Human Rights Act and the Human Rights Commission. Rentals are one of the greyer areas, as they are not a public space, so are only covered by the insufficient protection in the Human Rights Act. So this bill, in practice, replaces \u201Cguide dog\u201D in the Human Rights Act with \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D. It\u2019s pretty simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAt a high level, this change is needed because those disability assist dogs perform an invaluable service to many New Zealanders living with disabilities who rely on the skills of their disability assist dog to enable their participation in society on a daily basis. Trained disability assist dogs are able to perform a wide variety of tasks, depending on their owner\u2019s particular disability. It could be that a dog alerts someone with hearing loss to noises such as an alarm clock, a telephone, kitchen timer, doorbells, or fire alarms; alerts or protects somebody who\u2019s about to have a seizure or is having a seizure; or retrieves objects for a person who uses a wheelchair. These are just some of the examples of the many ways in which disability assist dogs play a critical role in enabling many New Zealanders to participate fully in society. Their purpose is quite different to a pet or everyday domestic animal, and because of their crucial role in the lives of many disabled people, it is essential that they are viewed and treated differently by the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe areas that will be covered by this amendment to the Human Rights Act will be Government or public sector services; employment; access to public places, vehicles, and facilities; provision of goods and services; land, housing, and accommodation; and education. So this bill would mean no person can be discriminated against while applying for rental housing solely on the basis that they have and use a disability assist dog. What Murray went through would be illegal and he would have had legal recourse to challenge those denials of his rental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ENew Zealand signed the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2008. Back then, it reflected a shift in the understanding of disability from the medical model focused on disability as an impairment as the cause of social exclusion, to a human rights model. As the Human Rights Commission put it in a recent submission to this House, \u201CThis means seeing persons with disabilities as rights holders rather than subjects in need of protection.\u201D While this bill won\u2019t fundamentally change the landscape for all disabled people, it does help us recognise the rights of people with disabilities, and when only about 2 or 3 percent of our housing stock is fully accessible, it\u2019s, I believe, particularly important to remove any grounds of discrimination that may present a further barrier to getting into one of those rare, precious spaces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s also clear that we need to do more than this\u2014right?\u2014and as Mojo and many campaigners have acknowledged to me, this bill is only but the tip of the iceberg when it comes to creating an accessible society. There is much more to do, but I do look forward to the support in this House for making this small but tangible and important change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002272fca41ff4014c078f422bfe8c6db563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272fca41ff4014c078f422bfe8c6db563\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real delight to stand and speak in support of this bill. The Labour Party will be supporting this bill because it certainly aligns with our views and values. The Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill is a bit of a mouthful, but it is nevertheless quite a simple bill that does a very important small change to the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March for having this bill pulled from the ballot. I\u2019ve got my own bill sitting in the ballot. It\u2019s an exciting time and we all like to have these things happen. I also want to acknowledge Mojo Mathers, who originally put this bill in over five years ago\u2014December, she put it in, five years ago. So it\u2019s been a long time sitting there in the ballot, and I think it\u2019s really, really important that we now have it drawn and we are now discussing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EAs the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, I\u2019m delighted that this bill will be referred to us for investigation and development. I\u2019m looking forward to the community giving us lots and lots of feedback for us to support and enhance this piece of legislation in any way that we can so that it better supports our disability community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWhat will this bill do? Essentially, I think the member Jan Logie has explained it extremely well in that this bill seeks to, I guess, modernise some language where we talk about a guide dog in the legislation and extend the definition of \u201Cguide dog\u201D to include disability assist dogs. Now, one of the things that I\u2019ve been particularly interested in is around this whole area of disability assist dogs in that we are now seeing more and more dogs that are highly trained\u2014it\u2019s somewhat expensive, but that\u2019s because of the years of training that goes into them\u2014being out there in the community. I\u2019ve been quite interested in ensuring that those dogs have access alongside, I guess, their masters\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure, or their \u201Cperson\u201D; I think that\u2019s the term\u2014or their person so that actually these dogs can be the most effective and perform their function. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo, for example, recently I met with a family in \u014Cmokoroa, and that family had an assist dog. They called that dog a service dog, so I would be interested in looking at the different definitions. There are three kinds of definitions. There\u2019s a service dog, a disability assist dog, and an assist dog. So we should have a look at the definition when we\u2019re looking at this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EBut anyway, I met with this family and I got to see their new training dog. Unfortunately, the previous assist dog had passed away, and the family were very bereft and it was devastating to the family to lose that dog. The young woman has a diagnosis of autism and the dog calms her. The dog helped and supported her to be calm in public, to be relaxed, and to be able to carry out the everyday functions of life, which is tremendous, and this dog passed away. So the family were now needing to have a further dog given to them or purchased for them, and it was just remarkable to watch the difference that this young dog had actually made to this family. It was just, just lovely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI had the conversation with them about how does it work at school, and the previous dog had gone to school really well trained. Many, many need, I think, at least two years\u2019 training, and that dog was amazing in the school environment. It had not only helped and supported this young woman but it also helped and supported to keep the rest of the class calm and, in fact, other children read to the dog and were more comfortable reading to the dog, and that assisted their learning. It was quite lovely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThat started my journey around the thinking about what we\u2019re looking at here, which is, previously, we just had guide dogs, and those guide dogs are amazing. My grandmother was entitled to have a guide dog, but she felt that she couldn\u2019t properly exercise and care for it in a rest home, and so she chose not to have one, which I do think was quite sad. But I do know that the changes that that would have made and supported her to be able to see better would have been amazing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ENow, back to the bill\u2014sorry, I was getting carried away there, Madam Speaker. So this bill changes the definition in the Human Rights Act to include disability assist dogs. The bill aligns with our values, as I\u2019ve said, and changes the definition under the Dog Control Act. It protects the basic rights of disabled New Zealanders to live free from discrimination in that we must and should always support these families to have their best lives and to live the best lives that they can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo what do these dogs do? The member Jan Logie has talked about that, and I certainly have as well. One of the things that I wanted to talk about, though, is the difference between an emotional support dog versus a disability assist dog. I don\u2019t know if any of you have ever seen this, but in America, sometimes you\u2019ll have a route they\u2019ll be able to go on to\u2014you know, a train or a plane\u2014essentially as an emotional support animal. However, we\u2019re not talking about emotional support animals; we\u2019re talking about appropriately trained animals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EIn reference to that, I\u2019d just like to go through the organisations that have the appropriate accreditation in New Zealand for training of those dogs. So there is the Assistance Dogs New Zealand, the Hearing Dogs New Zealand for deaf people, the K9 Medical Detection New Zealand, the K9 Search Medical Detection, the Mobility Assistance Dogs Trust, the New Zealand Epilepsy Assist Dog Trust, Perfect Partners Assistance Dogs Trust, and Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI think that what we could look at here is we could make sure that the appropriate training is in place. We should make sure that people aren\u2019t, I guess, getting a dud dog or buying a dog that\u2019s not fit for purpose, so perhaps we could extend some of what we look at to ensure that these assist dogs are fit for purpose. I think we could also maybe think a little bit about how do we identify these dogs in the community. Perhaps they need to wear a cape or they need to wear a vest, and they probably all do, but maybe we need to put that in the legislation. There are all sorts of parts to this legislation that we can actually explore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really important that when we go out to the community, we seek submissions from the disabled community, because I firmly believe in what that community says, which is \u201CNothing about us without us.\u201D I think that that will in fact help us better shape this legislation as we take it through the select committee process. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002236ca734a7af44f82a4c754217d44b6bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236ca734a7af44f82a4c754217d44b6bb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022fedf805f43be4633aea1413f306d7925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fedf805f43be4633aea1413f306d7925\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, it is an absolute pleasure to be standing here today to speak in support of the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill in this first reading. I want to acknowledge the heartfelt introduction of it by Jan Logie, and I also want to acknowledge Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March and, of course, Mojo Mathers who first introduced this in 2015. Certainly, it must also be acknowledged that this was inspired by the late Murray Whittington and his assistance dog, Frodo. So it\u2019s really important that we appropriately acknowledge all those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis is a very easy bill to support because it has that purpose of ensuring that all persons who need assistance from dogs are protected from discrimination on the basis of their disability by that simple act of changing the words \u201Cguide dog\u201D to \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D and then aligning the definition of \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D with the Dog Control Act 1996. It\u2019s really a small amendment, a small change in the legislation, but it will make a big difference to those that are affected by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge, as Angie Warren-Clark, the speaker before me, did, those organisations who train an assist dog, and it\u2019s really important for members of the public to know that these are dogs that are specifically trained by organisations that are listed in Schedule 5 of the Dog Control Act. So they are organisations that are reputable and do a wonderful job of training these dogs. There\u2019s around eight of them, but within those organisations there\u2019s hundreds of people and hundreds of families that take dogs in as puppies to train them for these roles, and you will often see them out training in the public. What an incredible selfless act that is\u2014to take a puppy into your home, into your family, and spend a number of months or sometimes years training that dog, knowing you\u2019re going to be handing it on to someone else. But what an incredible privilege to do that, knowing what a difference you\u2019re going to make in someone\u2019s life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important that we acknowledge that we\u2019ve gone further than just the guide dogs\u2014that dogs are used as hearing dogs, mobility dogs, epilepsy dogs, assistance dogs, medical alert dogs, and those who are trained to do specific tasks. They are not pets, and they are not just companion dogs or emotional support dogs, as important as those dogs are, and we see that in a number of different ways, but they are beyond that. They are highly trained to specifically support people who are living with disabilities to live a better life, a more accessible life. So it is a small amendment, but with a much bigger aim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI note that Mojo Mathers launched this on the International Day of Persons with Disabilities with the aim to create a more inclusive and accessible New Zealand, and I would have to say that we haven\u2019t got there. I agree with Jan Logie when she has said that we haven\u2019t got anywhere near there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe COVID situation has stripped bare a number of the covers of how we deal with people with disabilities. When we had a situation of almost 70 percent of the general population that had been vaccinated for COVID, at that same time, only 37 percent of people with disabilities had been vaccinated. Arguably, those who had the most compromised health were left vulnerable. So we do not have an inclusive or an accessible New Zealand yet, and COVID has stripped bare that situation. Those people who have not had their COVID vaccinations have been held back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002247e39e6f12474fb6ae269e80d69f0a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247e39e6f12474fb6ae269e80d69f0a3b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9c56c84aa64546bcb57527227c1e71\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Madam Speaker, I think I may have had 10 minutes. Point of order, I think\u2014[Assistant Speaker raises five fingers] Five. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00222a104d421e274b4a8a1e6e8fcd785ff0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a104d421e274b4a8a1e6e8fcd785ff0\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call in support of the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe are living in strange times and Zoom is obviously a regular part of our lives, and I actually had a real panic 15 minutes or so ago when I couldn\u2019t see him. I\u2019d been in a meeting this morning with the Social Services and Community Committee with Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March and he wasn\u2019t in the Chamber, and I was panicking\u2014where was he? But, of course, he\u2019s in Auckland, so our respect and our aroha goes out to you there in Auckland and to all the Aucklanders. So thank you very much to Jan Logie for hosting us this afternoon and for walking us through this bill, which is very simple, but it\u2019s really meaningful. I also want to say thank you to Mojo Mathers, who we\u2019ve already mentioned, who originally brought this to the House back in 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis bill, as has already been said, is around building a more inclusive and a more accessible society for all people. It\u2019s ensuring that people with a disability have the same rights and have the same opportunities as all New Zealanders. It\u2019s around removing stigma. It\u2019s around removing prejudice, as we\u2019ve heard about, and it\u2019s around normalising disability so that it\u2019s just a part of everyday life. In fact, one in four New Zealanders has some kind of disability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis bill is simple, and they\u2019re often the best. It\u2019s a really simple piece of legislation, and it does just two things. Obviously, as we\u2019ve heard, it removes the words \u201Cguide dog\u201D and changes that to \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D. Now, this is really basic, but obviously it makes quite a difference, because when this was first brought to the House, when this legislation was first formed, obviously guide dogs were the main disability-use animal that was used back then. But now, it\u2019s extended in many ways and spaces, and we\u2019ve heard already around supporting people with different disabilities: those who have hearing impairments, medical conditions, mobility issues, epilepsy, and the list goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation just ensures that disability assist dogs are in the Human Rights Act, right there for them. Now, this fits in for me personally but also for us, as the Labour Party, in our values around protecting the rights of our disabled New Zealanders, ensuring that all New Zealanders in our disability community live free from discrimination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI have a good friend in my electorate of New Plymouth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed670699d8ef4a87a05c9bd9709a1269\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Really? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8ab76b512642989230fb7408900df1\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I do, I have several, actually; not just my husband\u2014and he was the editor of the Taranaki Daily News. He was on the district council, and for a long time he has headed up the Disability Action group for New Plymouth, ensuring that New Plymouth is a disability-friendly city. Now, Lance Girling-Butcher\u2014and this story is around a dog for a person who is blind or low-vision\u2014has told his story around how he did struggle early on when he got Yogi, his beautiful Labrador, and people didn\u2019t quite cope with this at times. But then, slowly, over the last 10 years or so, it became far more normal to see Yogi sitting around the council table, to see Yogi in meetings, and to see Yogi on Air New Zealand flights, to the point that when I was in a taxi going to the airport several months ago and the taxi driver was chatting away and discovered I was from New Plymouth, he said, \u201COh, I know a guy from New Plymouth. There was a guy who used to come here and he used to bring his dog.\u201D I was like \u201CA dog in the car?\u201D, but, of course, this was Yogi, and he\u2019d been in the very taxi I\u2019d been in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re in a place, and, no doubt, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, the Minister for Disability Issues, supports us and supports all people. So I\u2019m really excited, as the deputy chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, to be able to take this bill on to the select committee process, to take it on for submissions, and to ensure that all people are valued and all people are respected and that disability assist dogs are a normal part of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022 data-id=\u0022128698df125944c5a143cb8c13904e0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022128698df125944c5a143cb8c13904e0d\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to take the call on the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill. This bill makes a very small change in the term from \u201Cguide dogs\u201D to \u201Cdisability assist dogs\u201D. With many people in our community that have disabilities\u2014more than just blind\u2014that need the assistance of their dogs, it\u2019s very disheartening to hear that people have been discriminated by having these dogs that people perceive are pets. As we all know, it takes many hours and a lot of money to achieve the training in these dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003EWe have a sad situation that this bill has had to be brought to the House to be put here, but one question I would like to know is whether or not we could have probably proceeded from just going through this whole process, and maybe have had a quick change with a letter to the Ministry of Justice asking if it could be amended via the Statutes Amendment Bill because it\u2019s such an important bill. Maybe we could have got it through just a little bit quicker than having to sit and discuss\u2014and, yes, there may be some more things that will come out of the select committee, but to speed the process up for people that may be disadvantaged. At this stage, it\u2019s still going to be a process for us to get through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003ESo to go through all this, I am happy to say that ACT supports this bill, and we hope to see it get passed very quickly through select committee, so if anyone that is incurring any discrimination, it is done and got rid of fast. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb6a9c70657747018630bedc50a8a848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb6a9c70657747018630bedc50a8a848\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. What a good bill to talk about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EEarlier today, I spoke to my 12-year-old daughter, Livia, and she said, \u201CWhat are you going to be doing in the House today, Mum?\u201D, and I said, \u201CI\u2019m going to be talking about this and speaking in support of the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill.\u201D, which really means taking the term \u201Cguide dog\u201D and calling for the words to be put in that this is going to be for disability assist dogs. She asked the question, \u201CWhat\u2019s the difference between a disability and an assist dog?\u201D, and my colleague Angie Warren-Clark spoke before and said that it will be good to talk about the difference in those names and what they mean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EBut one of the things that Livia talked to me about was \u201CIsn\u2019t this a good bill to learn about how we go about things in Parliament?\u201D We will see this go through with pace, but it\u2019s also going to be a good bill for people to engage in. It\u2019s one of those ones that I actually think that for people who are maybe even interested in Parliament\u2014we\u2019ve got Youth Parliament coming through\u2014we might see the serious side as well around discrimination with disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EMan\u2019s best friend being a dog, I was surprised to actually understand when I read this that there was this level of discrimination in a time like this, where we can have dogs on buses, but to then hear about people who are looking to rent a property and being discriminated about because their disability assist dog can\u2019t come with them. To me, man\u2019s best friend does a lot of good work for us. They\u2019re an animal that we have learnt over generations to guide us, train us, and work with us, whether they\u2019re farm dogs, whether they\u2019re guide dogs, or whether they are working in areas of even border security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThis is the first reading of this bill. It\u2019s going to be one that I do think will get a lot of interest. It\u2019s great to see in the House today that everybody is speaking in favour of this bill. It\u2019s good to see those points that are going to come through: what this bill will practically mean, what it will mean for our wider conversation around disability and working with people and ensuring that discrimination is no longer. We do have a way to go, and this will be an opportunity to talk more and more about those issues, and as we go through that process, it will be good to see, hopefully, a few of the dogs come in to select committee. Wouldn\u2019t that be fun? It would be good to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EWe have dogs in Parliament, and I\u2019m sure that the people that come through will be welcomed with the dogs. We\u2019re not going to the dogs. I mean, there might be some people across the House that are going to the dogs, but when it comes to this debate and this bill, it\u2019s going to be one that\u2019s going to bring unity to the House. It\u2019s going to be one that I think we\u2019ll see interest in from all walks of life, and that\u2019s what\u2019s going to be great about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIn doing so, I know that when I go back and talk to Livia, it\u2019s going to be one that she will watch with interest, because sometimes when we\u2019re in Parliament we talk about very complicated matters, but Livia is going to enjoy this one. In fact, I\u2019m going to encourage her and her friends to write a submission, because wouldn\u2019t it be great? These 12-year-olds that are getting jabbed for COVID and protecting the country; next thing, they\u2019ll be making submissions on things like this, and we\u2019re going to see that younger generation engaging in good policy and practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a good bill. I\u2019m absolutely pleased to see that it\u2019s finally come in here, that it\u2019s been pulled out of the ballot, and that we can have a good, positive debate. Thank you for that. I\u2019m looking forward to the Opposition, as well, taking part in this positively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThanks for this\u2014thank you, Madam Speaker. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec6d581881f34393a4f79ac24c65aeff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec6d581881f34393a4f79ac24c65aeff\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I learnt to take my face accessory off a bit earlier today. I was really interested in the last speaker, because we are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab3473f9c674d62a8563332fd6d8087\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: As long as your teeth don\u2019t fall out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0720a7585944af4b657190b8ca4b918\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Leave the dentures in, brother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917dc72ac67c489f85d9decccf94f00b\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re very expensive ones. Now, I was just intrigued by the last speech. I think this bill, in all seriousness, is a very good bill, and I commend Mojo Mathers all those years ago for bringing it to the Parliament and I think it\u2019s just unfortunate that she\u2019s not here to see it on its way through the House. But, of course, if I was like the Greens, I\u2019d oppose this bill on principle, because, in fact, I had a bill called the dog control amendment bill\u2014which amends one of the same Acts this is amending, actually\u2014which actually gave the power the courts have to some JPs to do some pretty simple work. The Greens voted against it. I don\u2019t know why; they didn\u2019t know why, but they did. So I would have thought that on the same basis, we\u2019d vote against this too, but I\u2019m not going to suggest we do that for a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThis bill, it does two pretty simple things. It amends the Human Rights Act by changing one definition in it, and it also amends the Dog Control Act 1996 by changing, basically, one clause in that. But the interesting thing about this bill for me is that it\u2019ll be very interesting to see where it gets to at select committee because there is potential for it to go further than Mojo Mathers envisaged it going at the time, if you think about companion dogs and the use of companion dogs now, and there\u2019s all sorts of other dogs that aren\u2019t necessarily disability assist dogs but that have the same impact on people\u2019s lives. I, in the Rangit\u012Bkei electorate, in Cheltenham, in fact, have a dog trainer who trains dogs to do all sorts of extraordinary things. So there are medic alert dogs and all sorts of things like that that, effectively, take the place of those little bracelet things that we wear with \u201CMedicAlert\u201D written on them, and the dog does the job for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s pretty amazing what dogs can be trained to do, but, of course, they\u2019re not only trained to do these jobs\u2014so I think it was Penny Simmonds that said earlier that they\u2019re not necessarily pets\u2014but, in fact, they are, effectively, pets to the extent that they become companion dogs. So they\u2019re extremely valuable to the people that own them. I remember not very long ago having significant arguments, again, in my electorate, with tenants of council flats who weren\u2019t allowed to have dogs in the council flats. All those people in those council flats are, effectively, pensioners. Most of them, or many of them, are living on their own, so they\u2019re challenged by loneliness and all sorts of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a whole lot of things that could come up in the course of the select committee process which may well, I guess, change the original intent of this bill and, in fact, expand it, and there\u2019s potential for that to happen. I find that quite interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ENow, the other challenging thing about dogs, and I suppose they\u2019re pets, but many buildings around Wellington have a no dog policy in them. I know in the building I live in, there was a woman there for quite some time who had a very small dog, actually. She carried it down in her purse each morning, and you\u2019d catch it sticking its nose out the top of the purse each morning she carried it down the lift. I\u2019m pretty sure it was illegal\u2014well, according to the building rules it was illegal\u2014but, anyway, she carried it down each morning and carried it back at night, and it lived in her handbag and it was quite an interesting thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut I think, all nonsense aside, this bill is a good bill. In fact, in my view, it\u2019s what the members\u2019 bill thing that happens in this House was designed to do, because it enables a member like Mojo Mathers to bring something that was dear to her, put it into a very simple Act, actually, but actually make a difference to quite a lot of people as a result of it. So the National Party certainly supports this bill to the next stage and we look forward to the select committee process, which I think will be quite valuable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EJust one last word, I guess, on the disability sector, which, in fact, this bill is designed to assist. I spent quite some time, I suppose you\u2019d call it, working in that sector, and it\u2019s a challenged sector at the best of times, but there\u2019s a whole lot of areas that will benefit significantly from a piece of legislation like this, so the potential is unlimited. So we commend the bill to the House, and thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022871e256bd3024b3d9ddcca1d590735d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022871e256bd3024b3d9ddcca1d590735d1\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to contribute in this debate about the incredible animal called the dog, domesticated from wolves an estimated 15,000 years ago. Look, it really is quite significant, the role that dogs do play in our lives, and so I think that it\u2019s certainly important that we take the time on a Wednesday afternoon to talk through that, particularly in reference to this member\u2019s bill, the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the sponsor of this bill, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, who will no doubt be watching from Auckland, and I\u2019d like to say congratulations to the member, building on the work that former MP Mojo Mathers did. I\u2019d like to congratulate the member for having the full support of the House, which is often quite rare, but well done to that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI think this is a good example of the role that members\u2019 bills play in this House, whereby there might be a piece of legislation which has either become outdated or may be an anomaly in the piece of legislation. I mean, legislation is seldom perfect. Society is constantly changing and evolving, and the member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March has picked up on this small change, which will have a significant impact, as we\u2019ve heard from previous speakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019ll be interesting to hear the submissions on this bill. I expect, as the previous speaker Anna Lorck said, there will be quite a bit of interest in this bill from a wide range of New Zealanders. Also, Anna expressed interest in having some dogs coming to the select committee, which would possibly be an improvement on some of the language in the select committees, but we\u2019ll certainly wait and see, and I\u2019ll certainly welcome that as well. But, look, great to have that support across the House for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to touch briefly, for the benefit of those members and those either watching or listening at home, on a little bit of the history of assist dogs. As I said at the start, dogs are incredible creatures with a huge propensity to undertake various tasks for humans. They\u2019ve been called man\u2019s best friend. In fact, in the 1700s, guide dogs were first used in Europe, particularly in Austria, and after World War II, dogs were employed to provide support to soldiers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ede4fb96b21455c85247ce880550936\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How much did they get paid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e6c0d9a10f4e009b60310debca0b5b\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Probably not a lot, Mr Bridges. Mr Bridges is asking how much they got paid. Look, it probably depended on which Government was in power at the time, Mr Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228785ec37b34f411bb5dbdb58eb43c401\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They would\u2019ve got paid under us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230d23480d82b461183565198092bb469\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah, and I\u2019m sure they were. There was some sort of union for the dogs, I would hope, Mr Bridges. But getting back to the bill, Madam Speaker\u2014excuse me for that small distraction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5472738e3d4641a4d6d25721dba09a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Grand idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee5491e9c0b49f4b0b36df75aa490ef\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014after World War I, soldiers were supported. We move forward to today, where we have assist dogs providing a number of important support roles for humans: hearing impairments, epilepsy, autism, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, and even, as I\u2019ve researched this afternoon, helping people to do practical tasks, whether it\u2019s opening doors or whether it\u2019s actually loading the washing. I actually just watched a video of a dog actually loading the washing. It was incredibly impressive. It was impressive, and I think I could do with one in our house when our children don\u2019t always support with their tasks, but I\u2019m not sure I\u2019d qualify along those lines. But it was an impressive video, and I would encourage people to have a look. So we\u2019ve heard about dogs in handbags and dogs loading the washing this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThis bill highlights the difference between a guide dog and a disability support dog. So the guide dogs have been with us for quite a long time. In fact, disability support dogs have too, but there\u2019s been much more focus on the guide dog aspect rather than on the disability support dog aspect. So a guide dog is a dog that has been trained to lead a blind or partially sighted person, whereas the disability support dog\u2014which is what, as we\u2019ve heard from previous speakers, this bill brings the change in the legislation to include\u2014is a dog that is trained to perform specific tasks for people with disabilities. I mentioned some of those tasks before, and, look, it\u2019s absolutely incredible what these dogs do in society. Excellent piece of legislation, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0bd35d02f3e449a89dbf5084c5d9433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0bd35d02f3e449a89dbf5084c5d9433\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I need to thank the member Jamie Strange from the other side of the room for that short history lesson. It was fascinating, thank you. Oh, to be a Labour Party MP who can spend all day watching YouTube videos. Wouldn\u2019t that be nice? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EMy first confession to this House is I\u2019m actually a cat person, so I\u2019m really going to struggle to extol the virtues of dogs for a wee while. Our former colleague Nicky Wagner, I think, at one stage held the disabilities portfolio\u2014correct me if I\u2019m wrong. This House may or may not know, but I\u2019m actually blind in one eye, and I told her about this one day, and she said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaec0e48d8634cccb42c9aa9390ff36a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A one-eyed Cantabrian\u2014I thought as much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a013d59c320a46efaba02afe5869e7cc\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: I am a one-eyed Cantabrian, and I don\u2019t shy away from that. But I told the former Minister this, and she said, \u201COh, you could potentially get a guide dog.\u201D, and I thought, \u201CI don\u2019t like dogs. I\u2019d rather a pony, thank you.\u201D, but I\u2019m not sure that the pony would trot around this building very easily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EBut, despite my obvious bias, we are here today to recognise that disability assist dogs do provide a valuable service to many New Zealanders who experience disabilities and other issues which require assistance, and like other speakers before me, I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the work that Mojo Mathers put in all those years ago. She identified a shortfall in the law and has done the groundwork to go about making a change that really will impact many New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is an amendment that just makes two very small changes, but I think the power in that is that they will have a great impact on very many people. I think, in this House, we must never forget that as legislators, we should take every opportunity we can to reform laws that do improve the lives of New Zealanders. Because words matter, the first is replacing \u201Cguide dog\u201D as a prohibited ground of discrimination with \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D, and I do agree with previous speakers that perhaps even that wording could be bounced around and changed a bit. Perhaps just \u201Cassist dog\u201D is even easier, and doesn\u2019t, therefore, have any derogatory connotations around people with disabilities. But that will be for the select committee to canvass and discuss. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe second amendment is aligning the definition of \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D with the Dog Control Act of 1996 so that dogs trained to service other needs are included. We have heard that that will also include hearing dogs, mobility dogs, epilepsy dogs, assistance dogs, medic alert dogs, and dogs who are trained to specific tasks. Also, a disability assist dog is a dog who is trained by an organisation specified in the Dog Control Act as being a dog trained to assist a person with a disability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo, all up, the National Party is very happy to support this amendment. It is a bill that will introduce the necessary legal backing to ensure that these highly trained service dogs are viewed and treated differently from pets and domestic animals under the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb356b2f0b9c420da3ce9dd025ebf02f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb356b2f0b9c420da3ce9dd025ebf02f\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As the co-chair of the cross-parliamentary PCAL, or the Parliamentary Champions for Accessibility Legislation group, I stand here in the House today in support of the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill put forward to the House by Green Party MP Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ESection 21 of the Human Rights Act lays out the prohibited grounds for discrimination enshrined at the heart of our human rights framework. Specifically, it identifies guide dogs under the clauses that relate to the discrimination against disabled people. This term, however, is very narrow. Disabled New Zealanders are assisted by a much wider range of support dogs than guide dogs alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EThe bill in front of us today amends the Human Rights Act 1993 to enhance the protections from discrimination for people who rely on disability assist dogs. Currently, section 21 of the Human Rights Act references guide dogs in its definition of disability. The bill here changes this wording to the broader term of \u201Cdisability assist dogs\u201D as defined in the Dog Control Act 1996, ensuring that those who rely on other kinds of disability assist dogs are afforded the protections that currently exist for people with guide dogs. This will help ensure that Kiwis are protected from discrimination under the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EDisability assist dogs provide vital support for the disabled New Zealand community that rely on them across a range of areas. The exact nature of the support is diverse, depending on the dog and its owner\u2019s needs, as my colleague Jamie Strange mentioned. The exact nature might be related to, for example, a deaf person who might need help with hearing sound alarms or doorbells. There might be somebody with epilepsy who needs management with seizures, or somebody in a wheelchair who needs retrieval of objects for them. Disability assist dogs significantly enhance the quality of life of those they help and can support disabled people to lead more independent lives. In some cases, they can even save lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ENow, if this bill had come into the House maybe last year, I would have probably wondered about whether I sit on the fence or not, because when I was three years old, I was actually bitten by a dog, so I\u2019ve been quite scared of all dogs. But, over the last year, working during the election time, I got to walk the streets of Hamilton with quite a few of our members who had dogs, and I realised how good they are in terms of providing therapy, and none of those dogs were actually guide dogs. So it goes to show that there is a wide range of definition for dogs that are able to provide support to New Zealanders who need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EI also want to mention that this specific Act also amends the section 2 of the Dog Control Act 1996, which outlines that a \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D is one \u201Ccertified by one of the organisations [the Act specifies] in Schedule 5 as being a dog that has been trained (or is being trained) to assist a person with a disability\u201D. There are eight organisations outlined in the schedule as being able to certify dogs. It is important to note that this definition still sets a very high standard for a dog to meet the criteria to be included in the Human Rights Act. They must be certified by one of these eight organisations I mentioned and must meet specific criteria in order to be certified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to building a more inclusive and accessible society and to ensuring disabled people have the same rights and opportunities as the rest of New Zealanders. Progress on disability issues continues to be realised through disability-focused funding across many Government portfolios such as ACC, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Social Development, and the Ministry of Education, and I specifically want to mention Minister Carmel Sepuloni, who has done a lot of good work in the disability space, in between her various portfolios in this Government and in the last Government as well. In the disability issues portfolio, the Government aims to progress the rights and opportunities for disabled people through the New Zealand Disability Strategy 2016-2026. The strategy and the Disability Action Plan are the key mechanisms for progressing New Zealand forward and realising the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EThe Disability Action Plan is the primary vehicle for implementing this disability strategy over the next four years, and I believe that moving this bill forward will make a huge difference in the lives of New Zealanders who for a long time have been discriminated just because of the way the Human Rights Act defines the kind of dog they can use to get assistance with their everyday activities. So I would like to highly recommend the bill to move forward in the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dade1095f7014c2d871e8127c6802f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dade1095f7014c2d871e8127c6802f14\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: In reply, Jan Logie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1f8fd18c9d43bcbf89438233f013b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1f8fd18c9d43bcbf89438233f013b0\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. What fantastic unanimity across this House in support of this very simple bill. In conclusion, I want to specifically acknowledge\u2014we don\u2019t usually acknowledge when members are not present. But these are unusual circumstances, so I do particularly want to do a shout-out to Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2014noting for people that there\u2019s three syllables in the \u201CMen\u00E9ndez\u201D, for future reference\u2014but also to acknowledge that he chose for me to give this speech on his behalf because he wanted to see this piece of legislation come into law faster. He put his ego second to prioritise the needs of the community, and I think that\u2019s worth acknowledging. It\u2019s a special thing to get a bill drawn from the House and to have the mojo to do that, and to put that aside and let somebody else do the first speech I think is awesome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAlso, I know he wanted me to acknowledge all of the staff and volunteers working in the organisations who are certifying our disability assist dogs. That is a wonderful effort and they play a really vital role in our community. I also want to acknowledge the fact that, now that we have such unanimous support across the House, I\u2019m going to anticipate the passing of this bill and acknowledge that this will be the second piece of legislation that Mojo Mathers drafted and then saw through into law, with the first being the election access bill, and to me, it\u2019s a real power of lived experience and people holding that lived experience proudly in their work as a representative in this House. I want to acknowledge her for that and encourage all of us to do more of that kind of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat Mojo said five years ago resonates today still: there\u2019s a long way to go to ensure the decisions made in this House help create a truly accessible society. Disabled people continue, rightfully, protesting outside this Chamber for better representation and outcomes. Only a few months ago, we had the h\u012Bkoi for hope where campaigners called for an independent body to be established to advise the Government on policy through a disability lens. Dr Huhana Hickey explained why she was calling for that, saying, \u201CGive us the power to make the decisions in our lives, and let us drive what\u2019s safe and what\u2019s right.\u201D So, really, that feels to me to be consistent with the thrust of this bill, and I hope that people with lived experience of having disability assist dogs will come in and submit on this legislation and help us make this as strong as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI will note the enthusiasm in the House for having more dogs around the place\u2014enthusiasm, while being a cat person, I also share for the dogs in this House. But I would remind those who may be watching and may not be familiar with disability assist dogs: not being pets, we really should not be talking to them or patting them when they are working. They are work animals at that time, and we do have to hold ourselves back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also just want to acknowledge, while we do not have anybody in the gallery today\u2014and I know that there would\u2019ve been people here if circumstances had been different. But within the parliamentary precincts, I know somebody\u2014Joe Boon\u2014has come in with his disability assist dog, and he is watching this speech in this House and has been supporting the progress of this bill right from the inception. I want to acknowledge how much this means to people who are affected. I look forward to this passing as it moves smoothly through the House, and also to seeing all the support that we\u2019ve had this afternoon also translate into support for a much braver agenda to ensure the rights of all disabled people in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002274ee234643e1415cbf0b6431b7762332\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274ee234643e1415cbf0b6431b7762332\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Human Rights (Disability Assist Dogs Non-Discrimination) Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215e8cc3a7d754e67882f27984bf0f3a3\u0022\u003EResource Management (Regional Responsibility for Certain Agricultural Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d5dc66cb5004768a45c1dcfd9cc0c92\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022eafb383806db46f6b4c30b081a47d6df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eafb383806db46f6b4c30b081a47d6df\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Speaker, for this wonderful opportunity to speak to this bill in my name. This bill has the principal purpose to provide for better regulations for on-farm practices\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228803e618278648ed92cb3541d9ba87c6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. The member should have some words, which he must say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554b3dfbab264b1d82809621dfa38a31\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Resource Management (Regional Responsibility for Certain Agricultural Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. And I nominate the Primary Production Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker. For the last 18 months, the rural sector has been treated as a metaphorical soft target, a tirade of forced change. All the while, as the Deputy Prime Minister says, the primary sector has continued to perform strongly. We have continually been targeted by regulatory overreach. Well, of course we have performed strongly: we\u2019re Kiwi farmers, arguably the best in the world. Yet all too often we are faced with runaway regulation that often fails the logic or practical sniff test. It was never going to be hard to imagine the likes of Groundswell NZ getting much support from the rural sector and the urban sector alike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWhat the rural sector has been asked to deal with never ends: the Labour and Greens\u2019 continued song sheet that perpetuates a feeling that the Government has an animus to the rural sector, all the while praising us, whilst at the very same time impugning us. They\u2019re constantly finding ways to further entrench central government over regional practices and people\u2019s lives, all too often affecting the wellbeing of communities and economic on-farm models, ultimately affecting farmer morale and rural folks\u2019 mental wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFarmers are totally fed up, frustrated, and are being left with a sense of entrenched confusion of how to proceed and how to operate. Well, the ACT Party has come here to fix it and offer better solutions than the centrist mantra out of the Labour and Green caucuses. My member\u2019s bill has a principal purpose to provide for better regulations for on-farm practices that will ultimately benefit all New Zealanders and regional environments. The bill targets the on-farm regulations that are most regionally specific and therefore are better regulated at a regional level, not out of the bureaucratic machinery of Wellington. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI have spoken to DairyNZ, New Zealand Federated Farmers, and Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand. They support this bill in principle. They said they agree that a one-size-fits-all regulatory approach across the country is not always best for the desired outcome for farmers and the wellbeing of the environment. In discussions, DairyNZ noted regulations need to be well designed and fit for purpose to support farmers and rural communities to succeed environmentally and economically. This means that regulations need to be practical, to be based on science and evidence, and to allow for the complex nature of individual farms and their regional environmental variability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe all know that politicians like to play their political hand at central planning, but in this instance, as farmers and rural communities, we simply know, when it comes to regulating localised activity from the Beehive, as often as not, it simply doesn\u2019t work. The centrist methodology being asserted on farmers has often left communities with untenable direction or the needed tools on how to operate. OVERSEER and its failure was a classic example of the Government, sadly, getting it wrong: not enough science, not enough localised understanding. Much of the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management and how it affects localised communities and activities proves this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThis bill speaks specifically to excluding and managing the effects of winter grazing, the application of synthetic fertilisers, sedimentation control, and the exclusion of animals and livestock from various water bodies, and, importantly, from central government planning, and gives that oversight back to respective councils who have the capacity to set localised standards. The rationale is very simple. Localised activity and, more importantly, the effects on the environment are best understood by those that undertake it and the local councils that regulate it. After all, what works in Gore doesn\u2019t necessarily work in Northland and/or Auckland. Comparatively, they couldn\u2019t be any more different from each other, both in terms of their environmental impacts, but also the types of regional activity and needed environmental protection and mitigations. They are very regionally specific. This bill will prove better for farmers, for local communities, and for their overall environment. This, given that specific regulations will be better understood and set at a local level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EJust for a bit of banter, if I could, at the moment, my dear friend and fellow farmer, the Minister for Rural Communities, said that \u201CWe, the Government, are always prepared to make changes where there are faults and adjust when things are not practical.\u201D He said this when talking about the national statement on fresh water. Well, on that basis, I welcome the support of the Minister, regardless of how the Labour Party votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce85155272a4013aef6a8f9f29f473d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t hold your breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022209cb6acc8bf48e6ba9671cb25fce001\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! As an active farmer myself, and knowing there are, essentially, no practical operating farmers in the Labour caucus beyond the aforementioned, I\u2019m intimately versed in how my own farming practices affect my own local environment, as does my council. Equally, this could be said of Auckland, Wellington when they\u2019re setting standards for local rivers or beaches and the understandings of the effects on their environment. One could offer several examples. My own farm management is seasonally indicative, acknowledging the 1,300 to 1,400 millimetres of rainfall I get per annum. This is taking into consideration the month-by-month variations; the varying soil types, some of which are alluvial and other that are podzol clays; also, the limestone substructure\u2014this is all on my own property, let alone 10 kilometres down the road, and in my local council they understand this. As farmers, we change our practices with seasonal, constant changes, giving consideration to the nuances of on farm and on-farm activities. All the decisions we make are premised on a myriad of localised variations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIf I may one offer one further example: in Whang\u0101rei, which is one hour of driving away from where I live, there is 300 millilitres greater average rainfall there compared to my home, with very different soil structures, substructures, topography, and types of soil erosion. Their environmental footprint and needed mitigations are different and the considerations different because of it. Regionally, Northland crop sowing dates to methods or environmental mitigations are principally better understood by those in respective regions. It\u2019s a no-brainer. We are significantly different from Southland, comparative to them, as they are to us. Clearly, a centralised slate of national standards totally fails to accommodate the plethora of variations, the type of environmental protection methodologies and on-farm practices we should use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ETo further encapsulate this narrative, I could offer other examples about nitrogen and the effects on the environment. One that the Green members often frequently reference, DIN, or dissolved inorganic nitrogen, levels, and the respective leaching, is highly respective of the volumes used, the farming conditions they\u2019re used in, permeable soil aggregate to non-permeable soil aggregate and the differences between the two, what is needed in terms of mitigation therein, and also how to preserve the environment. Putting a one-size-fits-all set of regulations on such use fails to acknowledge retention levels. That\u2019s why the ACT Party and thousands of regional members, farmers, and rural communities that support us see the logic behind this bill that we deliver: environmental protection and mitigation giving consideration to councils and their respective catchments, most of which are already employing environmental planning and implementing better regulatory standards in their regions. They are regionally specific, in most instances having considered better environmental outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThis bill is a better step to a more practical, workable law that puts effect to better farming practices and gives consideration to local environmental impacts. It allows communities and councils and local industry the ability to work collaboratively, ensuring better environmental outcomes and, equally, better fiscal outcomes for communities. Farmers want tenable solutions that offer better community outcomes across the board, a better understanding of where their future in farming is going, and practices that go with tenable outcomes forward: a robust set of local environmental standards that are set locally. The premise of this bill has the principled support, as I previously iterated, of the bodies such as DairyNZ, Federated Farmers, Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand, and, equally, most regional councils. Therefore, I and the ACT Party commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022194082e3108a4454bf0198f372765705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022194082e3108a4454bf0198f372765705\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220f408ac3efa34df19844b45fe0a20545\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f408ac3efa34df19844b45fe0a20545\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I begin by saying that I think Mark Cameron and all the members of this place are good people, but I fundamentally disagree with what is proposed in this legislation, and I\u2019m going to try in the 10 minutes that I have available to explain how we\u2019ve got to the position that we\u2019ve got to in New Zealand and why I think what\u2019s being proposed is not the solution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhen you go back to the early 1990s, just about all of New Zealand\u2019s waterways were clean. We had the occasional municipal discharge into our waterways and we had the occasional factory discharge\u2014what we call point-source discharges\u2014that were causing local pollution. But by far the great length of our rivers, and we\u2019re blessed with some of the most beautiful rivers, in New Zealand\u2014they were clean. We live in a country that\u2019s a steep country, that is a young country, and that has a lot of rain. Therefore, we have great, flushing flows that bring gravels down from our Alps and we have these sparkling rivers that are cleaned every minute of every day by the rejuvenating flows that come from the mountains, and yet, somehow, in the three decades since the early 1990s, we\u2019ve gone from that position to a point where the majority of the places that we monitor in New Zealand for swimming are not safe to put your head under in summer because the risk of microbial infection puts you beyond safe swimming levels, according to the World Health Organization, and also our turbidity levels have grown to be high. What\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf144d353784aae81a4f1e788f1c7b9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Nor are beaches in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365717cbc4864def8bc195c020b97354\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: And there are problems with beaches in Auckland\u2014that\u2019s a fair point. They need to be cleaned up, too. In fairness to the council, they\u2019ve brought through close to $3 billion of expenditure to largely remedy that problem south of the bridge through the Central Interceptor project and other works that are going on in Auckland as we speak, and they should be congratulated for doing their part, even though they\u2019ve got further to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of what\u2019s happened since, in 1993, the Uruguay round of the GATT concluded. That capped agricultural countries in their domestic settings. That had an effect on how much subsidy could be given by those countries to their agricultural producers, and what that, effectively, did was cap the amount of subsidised dairy products that was being sold into Asia, because there were rules that prohibited increases in those subsidies, and indeed they wound those subsidies back. In the decades that followed, New Zealand was the lower-cost producer of increased dairy output. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere were also increased improvements in farming technology. Much better electrical pumps were invented and became affordable; spray irrigation, or K-Line, was invented; irrigation trucks\u2014fertiliser trucks, rather that airplanes, that were more expensive\u2014became economic, and this rapid changing in technology meant that there was a rapid economic push towards New Zealand taking the economic opportunity of filling those growing demands for protein that came out of Asia, and, sadly, despite the fact that the Resource Management Act (RMA) said that we should be managing the environmental effects of the increased intensity of farming that flowed from those economic drivers, we dropped the ball as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENot only have we got to the point that most swimming spots aren\u2019t safe to swim in in summer; our estuaries\u2014and this is a recent picture of the \u014Creti estuary. It\u2019s just out of Invercargill. It\u2019s called the New River Estuary. That picture, if you can see it, has about a foot deep of recent sediments. I\u2019ve got other photos here that show that the cockles are all dead. The cockles have gone. These are recent sediments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve always had a lot of sediment in New Zealand since deforestation following colonisation, and that\u2019s been a problem. But we have reached tipping points in New Zealand because of this recent intensification of land use, and we\u2019ve all seen photos of intensive winter grazing carried out inappropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMr Cameron said the point that things are different in different parts of the country, and that\u2019s quite so. The problems in the Kaipara are different. But central government and local government are, between themselves, with some help from landowners, spending over the next 10 years $200 million to stop the build-up of sediments in the Kaipara, which is the nursery of snapper for the West Coast of the North Island. It\u2019s a juvenile white pointer - raising area, and there are recent mudbanks in the Kaipara that are 2 metres deep\u20142-metre deep recent mudbanks\u2014and I\u2019ve seen them. It\u2019s terribly sad. Every tide, there\u2019s another film of additional sediment. Some of it\u2019s coming from inappropriate management of fill coming from subdivisions into the north of Auckland. Some of it\u2019s coming from agricultural sectors, and that needs to be improved too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo we set as an objective, basically, that we think that rivers should be clean enough to swim in. That\u2019s a proxy for environmental health\u2014you know, pop down to your local river, put your head under in summer without the risk of getting crook\u2014and most New Zealanders believe that that\u2019s an appropriate ambition, and they know that in order to get there, we\u2019ve actually got to change the status quo, because the status quo is that you can\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEven the latest data that came out a year or two ago from the data sets that are collected nationally showed that just about twice as many\u2014a lot more rivers\u2014are still degrading compared with improving, according to the macroinvertebrate index. These are little critters that live under rocks, and if the water\u2019s too polluted from sediment or from excessive nutrient, they die. We\u2019ve got rivers in New Zealand that have lost more than 90 percent of their macroinvertebrates. They\u2019re just about functionally dead in respect of those ecosystems, and that affects not just the macroinvertebrates but the eels\u2014the tuna\u2014which are the fish that feed on them, and, again, it\u2019s another indicator of problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019ve done to remedy this is we\u2019ve actually said that, look, it\u2019s no individual\u2019s fault. Responsibility for getting it this bad is shared between regional councils, who should have done better to stop it getting this bad\u2014they\u2019ve had full delegated authority to do this ever since the RMA was passed. But it\u2019s not all their fault, because it\u2019s very hard and some of it is technical, and they needed help from central government that they didn\u2019t get enough of. Farmers are partly responsible\u2014you know, the \u201Cpolluter pays\u201D principle should apply here. These rivers don\u2019t pollute themselves, and it is the increased intensity of farming that is actually the largest cause of these problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo how do you wind it back and how do you work with the local communities to do it? Well, you actually do need a combination of local regulation, national guidance for that regulation, farmer input, and investment by farmers but also investment by central government, and we\u2019re investing hundreds of millions of dollars in the clean-up from taxpayers\u2019 money, and those taxpayers weren\u2019t the people who caused the mess. So we\u2019re coming to the party and we\u2019re planting out riparian strips, we\u2019re subsidising catchment management groups, and we\u2019re employing facilitators so that groups of farmers can come together and share best practice and put a bit of peer pressure on the ones that are the laggards. We\u2019re doing all of that, but you do need some national direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou need to have some standards about what are appropriate microbial levels. E. coli is the thing that\u2019s monitored as a proxy for other pathogens that cause illness, so you need limits on E.coli. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou need limits as to sediment and turbidity. How fast you get to those limits is for locals to decide, and under the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management, it is regional councils that decide on those time frames. We set some objectives to get back to healthy river states that are driven by science, but we leave it to communities as to how they get back there over a generation. There are some interim steps in the national environment standard that kick in straight away, but that\u2019s to stop things getting worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe know that if you have an increase in intensive winter grazing, you increase pressure\u2014you increase the degradation of your waterways\u2014and so we\u2019ve said that it\u2019s no longer a permitted activity to do that. If you want to increase substantially your intensive winter grazing area, you\u2019ve got to get a resource consent to do it. That\u2019s the purpose of the RMA, and if environmentally damaging practices like that are not controlled by the RMA, they\u2019re not controlled, as evidenced by the degradation that we\u2019ve already suffered in our waterways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo I reject the idea that we don\u2019t need national direction. I do think that this is a very radical bill, given the experience that we have had in New Zealand that I have explained, because it would, effectively, say that, notwithstanding the problems that are three decades old that haven\u2019t fixed themselves and that haven\u2019t been properly managed by regional councils or by farmers themselves, we should just stand back and say, \u201CIt\u2019s somebody else\u2019s problem.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t have that viewpoint in the Labour Party. We think that this is appropriate use of these tools. We are working with local communities and with local councils. We\u2019ve got overwhelming support within society for that. I think this is an illustration of the sort of radicalism that the National Party would be driven to if they were in a coalition with the ACT Party, because I suspect that they\u2019re going to vote for this bill as well, flawed though it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c95956a3dcdb472e93db8af9cbc4cc95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c95956a3dcdb472e93db8af9cbc4cc95\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Congratulations, Mark Cameron, on having this member\u2019s bill drawn\u2014and, yes, the National Party is supporting Mr Cameron. Look, I would like to commend Minister Parker for setting out some of the issues that we are currently facing, and I don\u2019t think Mr Cameron or anyone in the National Party denies that there are problems to be solved. But Minister Parker said himself that over the last 30 years, things haven\u2019t got as good as they could have been, despite the Resource Management Act. So, therefore, we have a Resource Management Act, and I know there are\u2014[Bell rung]\u2014new ideas coming forward, and I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250327d8b3e224216977eec8e6e335b78\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just sorting out the clock. Sorry for interrupting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bee8cb8ba8af4ac18192fa82e45b984d\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. We know that we\u2019re looking for improvements to that legislation. Farmers are actually number eight wire people. They know they\u2019ve got a lot of stuff to solve. We are not actually hiding behind that, and I count myself in that because I am a farmer as well, just like Mr Cameron is. Farmers want to get out of bed in the morning and they want to put one Red Band in front of the other and they want to do something practical. They are very good at doing the practical things that will help solve their problem. The issue that they\u2019ve had lately is that there are so many regulations and so much red tape coming at them, and so many things to sort out, that they are spending all of their time stressing about where to go, what to do first, and they actually need to be able to work by region, by community, and help\u2014I understand that there\u2019s got to be some underpinning things that go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBut I use an example here: there was a press release (PR) that went out last week, where the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor has put out a PR saying the \u201CGovernment investment in farmer-led catchment groups sweeps past [the] 150 mark\u201D. Now, this is a real example about how one catchment is different to the other catchment\u2014Taranaki is different to what it is in Northland, to what it is in Southland. People want to get out of bed in the morning and they want to get out, put their gumboots on, and go and do something to fix this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ENow, just recently I was in the Wairarapa with a catchment group, and what is really difficult about some of those things when you get centralisation is that you\u2019ve got a group here that wants to plant trees, they want to improve waterways, they want to do the right thing, and they\u2019ve got six different entities that they\u2019ve now had to form because of bureaucracy and red tape. They have to report back to the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry for the Environment quarterly, and they don\u2019t mind the accountability but they are reporting back on two different quarterly dates, right? So that is what happens here when we end up having too much centralisation\u2014sometimes it\u2019s the administration. They\u2019ve had to employ somebody\u2019s sister who could help them deal with the administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ELook, there are ways of doing this. Look at the Pomahaka Catchment Group\u2014and there\u2019s a whole lot of other catchment groups I could name around the country that have been doing some good work. I used the example just recently about the winter grazing issue. I want to commend Bernadette Hunt for her stance in explaining exactly how winter grazing works. I commend you, Minister, for listening and taking in some more submissions around how this might work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWhat I would urge the Minister and the Labour Party to do is to, perhaps, support this bill through the first reading, come into the Primary Production Committee, come and listen to some of the submissions where people are offering ways of fixing problems, not in a one-size-fits-all way but in a regional way where people can actually get out of bed and look at each\u2014what actually happens is they get out of bed in the morning, they can see their neighbours, they look each other in the eye, and they are just willing to work together. They are not form-fillers. They are not people that are really good at the administrative type of work that they are being asked to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI wouldn\u2019t think it would be too much to ask for an industry that has seen this country through all of our COVID lockdowns\u2014thankfully, trade prices have kept up; thankfully, Fonterra and Silver Fern Farms and others have found ways through the shipping constraints to still get our trade out of the country. We do actually appreciate what farmers do when they get out of bed every day to help keep this country going. I think it would be really good if the Minister and others would let this go through to select committee and see if there are some things that we could solve regionally. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbf074c4e6a74fa3bec394f094948f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbf074c4e6a74fa3bec394f094948f85\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you. I\u2019m happy to take a call on this, and can I firstly congratulate the member Mark Cameron on having the bill drawn from the ballot\u2014quite a feat to achieve as a new member, I know. I have to say that the member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, Barbara Kuriger, I\u2019ve worked closely with in select committee, and I appreciate her efforts for sure, but, on this, it may come as no surprise that we will have a divergent view than the one that she has expressed. I want to just note that my parliamentary colleague Rachel Brooking, who otherwise would be making comments on this particular bill\u2014and I\u2019ll try and perhaps channel some of her thinking in this particular space, shall we say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut what I would say is that the Resource Management Act (RMA) has always actually provided for a nationally formed set of rules that, effectively, will provide some environmental standard. This bill as it currently stands doesn\u2019t try to change any of the fundamentals of the RMA. Members opposite, I know, have, alongside me and others, just completed the first phase of a number of days\u2019 worth of submissions, and that\u2019s because the Environment Committee is currently considering an exposure draft which is part of a longer-term form of RMA reform. I think it\u2019s really important that that is considered in the context of what is currently before this Parliament, because it has actually been a really insightful and interesting opportunity to hear from folk right around New Zealand, whether they be from the regions or whether from metro areas or elsewhere. They are certainly feeling free to share with the committee what their views are around that, but what I would say is that this bill as it currently is presented would actually permit a variation in standards across the region, where we\u2019re hearing a desire for regional collaboration in that space. I think there is more thinking to be done in that particular space as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn terms of the role of regional councils, the assumption is, I guess, that there is a need for resource consent unless particular activities are largely permitted, either in a plan or, indeed, actually in an environmental standard. Nothing in this bill fundamentally will change that. Actually, instead, what the bill will seek to do is limit what a national environmental standard (NES) actually would do in terms of where it would apply. In fact, it goes further, in that it would, essentially, repeal part of a current NES. So if the rationale actually is to have decision making at a regional level\u2014and I agree that, you know, regionalism and the importance of regional councils and others working together\u2014this bill doesn\u2019t actually provide for that, because there is, as my colleague the Hon David Parker has already indicated, actually a role for national direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually well accepted that there is that role in the Randerson report, which is forming part of this process around RMA reform as well. In this particular case, actually, the NES in question is important to actually go on and address the degradation of waterways, because we all want to have waterways where we can swim, where we can gather, where we can collect kai and have a wonderful time as well. So it will come as no surprise that that\u2019s actually something that the Labour Party has held quite firm to over many years and is on a path to do something about. It is obviously part of the essential freshwater programme as well, and that\u2019s an important piece of work, but so also is that sense of national direction. Whether it is, as Minister Parker has said, in the national policy statement space, in the NES space, or potentially at a localised level through regulations, they are very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat I would say is that this bill will allow for an exception to what, I guess, the NES could apply to. It would go on, potentially, to revoke regulations, particularly stock exclusion regulations of 2020, and parts of the NES that would relate to intensive winter grazing but also the application of synthetic nitrogen fertiliser to what would be pastoral land. So in conclusion, I think it is important to acknowledge that farming activity is important, but it can also, at times, have adverse consequences, and therefore appropriate mechanisms, instruments and regulations, need to be put in place, but that they are considered to be fair, that they are considered to be consistent, and that they, at the end of the day, meet a need that is obviously there. So on that basis, I will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022426ec3cb4da040798186de2eee1362b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022426ec3cb4da040798186de2eee1362b8\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you. The Green Party is opposing the Resource Management (Regional Responsibility for Certain Agricultural Matters) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m really puzzled by the contributions I\u2019ve heard from both the ACT member and the National Party, because there is a widespread recognition that the failure to develop national policy and national standards under the Resource Management Act has been a problem. It has resulted in huge costs as regional councils and district councils around the motu seek to develop their own rules that are often challenged; that goes to the Environment Court. So there has been a huge amount of cost and unnecessary bureaucratic enterprise in each council attempting to develop its own rules and regulations and having those contested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThen what that has led to, with the major intensification in agriculture and the incredible subdivision development on the edge of towns with earthworks and sediment loss from those, is quite significant degradation of our rivers and lakes. And it has been this Government in the last term under Minister Parker which led the work to put in place some certainty, some national regulations to prevent stock getting into waterways, to ensure that there are standards through the National Environmental Standards for Freshwater for sediment, for nitrogen, and the use of synthetic fertiliser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhat this bill will do will put it back to regional councils, to each work on their own, and not to have that efficiency of working nationally to have some consistent and clear standards. This is a very dangerous bill because it really highlights ACT\u2019s attitude to the future of farming\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and the future of the environment, and you can hear the members getting quite excited. ACT goes round the country seeking to present a fresh face, but it does not care about a healthy environment. It does not recognise that a healthy economy and social wellbeing are based on healthy nature. It wants to scrap critical regulation that it has taken 30 years to get through a board of inquiry process, through public consultation, through working closely with the primary sector councils, primary industry organisations like Beef \u002B Lamb, Federated Farmers\u2014and instead it\u2019s tossing that all out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EACT doesn\u2019t like regulation; we know that. But this is making it very clear that it\u2019s quite happy to have dirty rivers and continued degradation rather than working on a path to clean up those rivers and ensure that our farmers who are working to replant their riparian margins, to protect gullies, to recognise what they can do in catchment groups to restore waterways and are getting on with it, as Minister Parker noted, with a substantial investment of funds from this Government, from this generation, to repair the damage that was done in the past. And as Tangi Utikere noted, on the Environment Committee we have been listening to dozens of submitters who want te taiao properly cared for, who recognise that Papat\u016B\u0101nuku is essential to our wellbeing and that we need a new approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill do? It goes backwards. It\u2019s giving the nod to continued degradation and to continued pollution because it will put it back on the regional councils and undermine all of this work that has been done in the national policy statement and the national environmental standards for freshwater to put in place some bottom lines while allowing councils to work with their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the funding support that this Government is providing to ensure that our rivers are swimmable is work that has been called for by the public for a long time. Yet National and ACT are going backwards. They are showing their contempt for nature, for water quality, for clean rivers, and just putting the load back on regional councils again. So it would be a very dangerous combination of National and ACT in the 2023 election if they got elected that would seek to roll back the regulation that we\u2019ve finally got in place in order to protect water quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill is a bad bill because it is a bill for dirty rivers, for increased sediment pollution, increased nitrogen pollution, increased degradation of our aquifers, and it\u2019s not about protecting farming\u2019s long-term future, because farming\u2019s healthy future relies on a healthy environment. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c95b05ea3f324ea282e70f44dd353037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c95b05ea3f324ea282e70f44dd353037\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to take a call today. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge Mark Cameron for having his bill pulled from the ballot, and, as a first-term MP, it must feel very good. That\u2019s probably all the compliments I can say in relation to this bill, but congratulations to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWe have just spent 14 days, or approximately 68 hours, looking at the Natural and Built Environments Act. The Randerson report, which was written last year, has, in fact, outlined a whole series of needs and improvements that we can make. Essentially, what we\u2019re looking at here is a system that recognises and acknowledges that our environment needs to be taken care of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ENow, I looked at this legislation, and I have to be quite honest: I was quite shocked when I read the wording of the section. So I\u2019m just going to read it out for those who are listening at home, in regards to what the bill actually says, because, actually, I don\u2019t believe that New Zealanders want what is in this bill. I think that we, as citizens of this country, all hold very dear the right to swim in our rivers and our lakes, and I think that all of us think that that\u2019s really important. So, as a consequence, I\u2019d just like to read out what this bill actually says, or is asking for. So it\u2019s section 43 of the Resource Management Act that it\u2019s seeking to amend, and it says, \u201C(2A) Despite subsections (1) and (2), regulations made under this section must not prescribe\u201D\u2014must not prescribe\u2014\u201Ctechnical standards, methods, or requirements in respect of the following matters: (a) excluding stock\u201D\u2014so you must not exclude stock\u2014\u201Cfrom water bodies, estuaries, coastal lakes, and lagoons, and the margins of those water bodies, estuaries, coastal lakes, and lagoons\u201D. So to all of that riparian planting that all of our farmers have been doing\u2014all of that good work\u2014this says, \u201CNo, don\u2019t do it.\u201D The next thing is \u201C(b) managing the environmental effects of intensive winter grazing\u201D. So it talks about these things and that they need to be regionalised, and that\u2019s the effects of winter grazing. The next is \u201C(c) the application of synthetic nitrogen fertiliser to pastoral land\u201D and \u201C(d) sediment control measures.\u201D And it also just talks about the intensive winter grazing, and the definition of that means \u201Cgrazing livestock on an annual forage crop during winter.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI guess the reality is that, fundamentally, we believe in protecting the environment, and I want to really acknowledge our Minister for the Environment, the Hon David Parker, who today spoke very passionately and very clearly about\u2014and, I think, articulated really well\u2014the history of the Resource Management Act and the failure; that we, as a country, have managed basically to degrade our waterways and create an horrific response. I remember, as many of us here, as a child swimming in rivers, drinking from those rivers, and not getting sick. However, that has changed very much now, and it is really unfortunate that we have this wholesale degradation of our environment. I think it is so important that we continue to support the environment, and I think it is incredibly important that we continue to go on this path, with many, many experts and hundreds and hundreds of submitters talking to us in regards to the legislation and saying that, actually, we as a collective need to manage the environment in a better way. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022db1936a160834494a1a12c3cd01fbedb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db1936a160834494a1a12c3cd01fbedb\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d like to join with others from across the Chamber who have congratulated Mark Cameron on the bill that he has had drawn from the ballot. That is an achievement, even if it is a lottery achievement. It\u2019s something worth debating. The whole purpose of members\u2019 bills is that an opportunity should be given for members who are not part of the Government executive to bring to this Chamber, bring to the Parliament, their thoughts, ideas, and policy initiatives to change, make better, enhance, and improve the legislative environment within which we all live. That\u2019s what Mark Cameron is attempting to do with this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI reject utterly the Government\u2019s point of view, backed and supported by their loyal sidekicks the Greens, that they should instantly reject whatever is in this bill simply on the basis that they don\u2019t like it. Now, one of the fundamental principles of our parliamentary democracy is that we should be able to debate and discuss and engage with each other about ideas and principles and philosophies. None, I think, are more important than those that are impacting on our environment, on our beautiful natural environment, because as New Zealanders we are all connected with it and it means so much to us all. I\u2019m one that thinks that issues relating to the environment shouldn\u2019t be relegated to one side or the other of the political spectrum. I think that\u2019s far too important. So I reject utterly the Government\u2019s point of view that they know best and that they are not prepared to engage or listen or interact with anyone who may have the temerity to have an even marginally different, slightly different, view to their own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I found interesting from the speech from the Minister and the speech from the Green member who has now resumed her seat is that one would think that that they have held these positions, particularly around water and water quality, for ever. Actually, no. Labour and the Greens have been late starters, latecomers, to the debate about improving the water quality of New Zealand. I remember, during the nine long years of the Helen Clark Government, not one thing was done\u2014not one initiative, no legislation, no regulation, no improvement at all. Yet the Minister stands in the House today and says these are problems that have emerged over generations, over decades. He was in that Government. He was in that Labour Government of Helen Clark, and he had an opportunity then to do something and he did nothing\u2014he did nothing. Listening to him in the House today, you would think that it had been a lifelong, cherished ambition for him to improve the water quality of New Zealand\u2019s fresh waterways. Sadly, that\u2019s not been the case of history or the record of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt was actually my colleague Dr Nick Smith who introduced the first initiatives, opposed by the Labour Opposition at that stage, opposed by the Greens, who used every possible stunt that they could achieve to block and stop what he was trying to do. They thought that was all wrong, and then suddenly there\u2019s a change of Government and oh, yes, a road to Damascus, a recovery and an aberration, and suddenly it\u2019s all their idea. Well, that\u2019s not what history tells us, because we know on this side of the House that the tradition of Labour parties, not just in New Zealand but around the world\u2014it\u2019s a socialist tradition, actually\u2014is that there are only three policy initiatives that they have when it comes to any matter, whether it\u2019s the environment, fresh water, or anything. Those three policy initiatives are either to ban it, make it compulsory, or tax it\u2014often, a combination of all three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWe think on this side of the House that this is a bill that is not perfect. It has got some issues, it has got some faults. We, for instance, on this side of the House, we do support national direction. We do think that\u2019s important, but we also understand and accept that water quality issues deserve attention catchment by catchment. We accept that. So we think on this side of the House that rather than just simply arrogantly rejecting out of hand this piece of legislation, it should go to a select committee. It should be the subject of submissions presented from people around the countryside, and it should be part of our democracy and it should be something that the Government should at least have the decency to listen to an alternative point of view and hear another thing on. If there\u2019s one thing that this Government has to do, they really must begin to learn that when it comes to things agriculture, when it comes to things farming, they\u2019ve got to learn to deal with farmers rather than dealing to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u002224d54e2d1fe941e39bfe44e4f2e29000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224d54e2d1fe941e39bfe44e4f2e29000\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to stand and contribute to this bill, the Resource Management (Regional Responsibility for Certain Agricultural Matters) Amendment Bill, which is getting people a little bit heated tonight, I\u2019ve got to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ELook, first of all, congratulations to Mark Cameron, from ACT, for bringing this bill before the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228932aefa4e8f4512a13ab4256d517862\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: That must be the first talking point!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022102d44d9bc03411da9ad9d8fe42b005b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s bullet point No. 1!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bc5e2646d4b4038837821afcc5ed1a5\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take a moment of gratitude\u2014that\u2019s for you\u2014and I won\u2019t be distracted by catty little calls from across the Chamber. Thank you for that, Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ECan I just, first of all, respond to something that the Opposition person who just sat down before me, Scott Simpson, said. He said Labour were late\u2014late\u2014to improving our waterways, and, you see, some people might buy that because they don\u2019t quite understand the investment that previous Labour Governments have gone and made, and I would say that that member is probably being quite selective about the history of being able to improve our waterways. And I want to take the opportunity to just talk about the commitment that was made under the last Labour Government to clean up the waterways around Rotorua. An announcement was made by the Rt Hon Helen Clark back in 2008 for a restoration plan around the lakes\u2014$144 million was made to improve the water quality of four priority lakes: Lake Rotorua, Lake Rotoiti, Lake \u014Ckareka, and Lake Rotoehu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo just that actually completely disproves what the person who sat down just before me, Scott Simpson, said, which was that this side of the House know nothing about the environment, we\u2019re late to the party, we\u2019ve been asleep at the wheel. I absolutely negate that, because actually we\u2019ve been very careful about the environment for a very long time, and long have Labour also had the confidence of M\u0101ori too, and I would say that M\u0101ori, for a very long time, have wanted to have kaitiakitanga over our waterways and over our water bodies, and, unfortunately, this bill doesn\u2019t quite cut the mustard when it comes to making sure that, especially from my point of view, the rights of M\u0101ori are looked after in this as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWe have had many submissions to the Environment Committee talking about reform of the resource management system. There are a lot of people that want to be involved in the planning and the organisation\u2014at a local level, granted; at a local level\u2014of our environment. And, to those people who put in their submissions over the 15 days that we were sitting, I thank them for it. But what they said was, especially our M\u0101ori communities, \u201CWe want a say. We want a local say. We\u2019re OK with setting national direction. We\u2019re OK with also regional plans as well.\u201D And I get what this is trying to achieve, but, as far as I\u2019m concerned, this doesn\u2019t quite get there. There is a lot of reform going on. I heard the previous member when he said that actually we should be still sending it to select committee, but I would say to that that there is a large body of work going on across all of our select committees across Parliament. In fact, we\u2019ve been criticised by the Opposition for having too much on, and here he goes wanting to lump some more work on us. But, actually, this is a piece of work that I again thank the member for bringing forward but it\u2019s not going to get support from me, from this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhat I look forward to is actually a continuation of the really, really good work that we are doing in the Environment Committee, specifically around looking after our environment. Te mana o te Wai, Te Oranga o te Taiao\u2014these are all concepts that we are grappling with in our committee, and this is a lightly once over, this bill here. What I want is a good and robust debate, a good robust piece of legislation, where we can actually talk about all of those issues that have been brought forward by the various submissions, in terms of looking forward to the next 25, 30 years of New Zealand\u2019s planning system. This doesn\u2019t do it for me. The reform that we\u2019re currently embarking on\u2014that we will see to fruition\u2014will be a large part of that, and the legislation that we eventually put through will be informed by all of those people who have come forward and raised their concerns, not just about one little slice of the pie but actually about how the whole of the environment works together, how M\u0101ori can participate in co-governance structures\u2014as we should, as defined by Te Tiriti; as the Crown should be a good Crown Treaty partner\u2014and that\u2019s what I\u2019m looking forward to. Unfortunately, I won\u2019t be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00229647069bfb0849dfacd95e6a574bdbeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229647069bfb0849dfacd95e6a574bdbeb\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. And, again, congratulations to Mark Cameron\u2014so early in your political career to get a member\u2019s bill drawn out, well done. This is an easy bill for us to support to select committee stage, and what a wonderful opportunity it would be for the other side of the House to hear from some farmers and to try and work in partnership with those farmers. And on a cold, wet, miserable day in Wellington, I\u2019d like to acknowledge our farmers and people right across the land that are working on the land. We\u2019ve had a cold, wet spring in Southland. I want to acknowledge all our farmers and farm workers that have been out calving and lambing and worrying about how much feed they have, and I acknowledge how stressful that is for them\u2014pity we couldn\u2019t take some of the hot air from this Chamber down there sometimes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ENew Zealand farmers are among the most efficient and capable farmers in the world. There are 350,000 people in this country employed in the primary sector. We feed 40 million people across the world, and 80 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total export revenue comes from our primary sector. This is a big deal and, when the Government starts messing with it, they better think of the consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIf you took a world view, you would say the more food that New Zealand grows the better for the world. Our farmers are more efficient and create less carbon emissions than anywhere else in the world. But this Government has developed an astonishingly negative narrative around farming. We heard it from one of the members from across the House before; about a wholesale degradation of the environment in New Zealand. Do you honestly think, when people fly into New Zealand\u2014and, granted, they haven\u2019t been able to for a long time\u2014they look out the plane window and say, \u201COh my goodness, what a wholesale degradation of that environment in New Zealand.\u201D? What a load of rubbish. Do you honestly think that having campaigned all through an election campaign on dirty dairying, farmers are going to want to rush out in partnership with you when you try and bring in regulations? Do you think that when you put up the most ridiculous slope maps or winter crop sowing dates that just don\u2019t make sense, farmers are going to want to work in collaboration? The fundamentals of the change process is you take people with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ENow, we heard that somehow everything had been going wrong until this Government and the previous Government came in and started to save the world, or save New Zealand, anyway. Well, I hate to break it to you, but people like Bryce McKenzie and Laurie Paterson in Groundswell were looking after the Pomahaka catchment group before you even knew there was such a river.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f607fb650a184eb7a720e0b5d743d612\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to interrupt the member and just\u2014less use of the word \u201Cyou\u201D in the wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a34e12105a04d5481edb3180b9f582e\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Quite right, Mr Speaker, I take that absolutely on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EFarmers were fencing waterways long before this Government thought that it was a great idea to do, and that\u2019s because, first and foremost, farmers are conservationists. They know they want the land to be kept in a good condition. They know they want their stock looked after well. The reason why a group like Groundswell has come about is because this Government has been putting in place an avalanche of regulations that the farming community cannot deal with all at once and that doesn\u2019t even make sense for them to deal with. So it would make much more sense to allow this bill to go to the select committee and work collaboratively with the rural sector to come up with solutions that will genuinely make a difference, because farmers know those solutions much, much better than people in Wellington do. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf90f27f93a48a7bbc6bfe27d407dd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf90f27f93a48a7bbc6bfe27d407dd5\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, like most people in this House, I congratulate the member for his bill being drawn. Again, it is the luck of the draw, but as a first-term MP, I acknowledge that, and that\u2019s probably where I\u2019m going to stop my acknowledgments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not going to stand here as a previous tax lawyer and proclaim to be a farming expert. I\u2019m not going to proclaim to be a grazing expert or an expert on the Resource Management Act (RMA). That\u2019s not my style, as some would yell out across from the hall. But the thing is, though, probably an area which I have some sort of grasp of is children. My children hail from Northland, not far from where the member is domiciled and resident, I understand, for about 30 years. It is the winterless north; I absolutely agree with that claim. But one of my children\u2019s favourite activities to do is in an area, a valley called K\u0101retu Valley. It\u2019s about 15 minutes away from Kawakawa; it is right next to Waikare. From the Russell Forest there, the water flows into K\u0101retu River. It is one of my children\u2019s absolute favourite pastimes to be able to go up in the summer and to be able to be where their family is from, their tangata whenua, and to be able to swim in that river. The problem has been, though, that children across the country can\u2019t do that in their local rivers. We look at Kaitoke Regional Park, which is not far from here in Wellington. You\u2019ve got to be able to check every time before you go for a swim there what the levels are, and that\u2019s why there\u2019s been a lot of investment in monitoring of our local waterways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we\u2019re already working to ensure New Zealand\u2019s resource management system is fit for the future and performing properly for our natural and urban environments. This is not just about farming; this is about all our environment right across the country. As part of that, in our first term, we undertook a review by Justice Randerson, and that report recommended that the RMA be replaced and be replaced by two particular bills. I just want to quote something from that report, because it\u2019s incredibly important and because that review took through a number of submissions. So that was quite early on, that was in our first term. In that report it quoted: \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s natural environment is under significant pressure: the way we use land and water has proved to be unsustainable for the natural environment. The quality of our freshwater, coastal and marine environments is in serious decline, and biodiversity is under significant threat.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister earlier today talked about how since the 1990s, waterways\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261bbfce8a6e345a688f6537516ebab3e\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: When are you going to address the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6cf982a825a43a0bb812c05b84d0d9e\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014were much more cleaner. But now we\u2019ve got to a position of 30 years later and the majority of the places we monitor are no longer swimmable. And to address the member\u2019s question: have I actually read the bill? Yes, I have read the bill, and my problem with the bill as it sits on the Table is that it\u2019s piecemeal. The fundamental issues that you are trying to resolve with it are not done with this bill, which is why this Government committed to a review of the RMA. That\u2019s why this side of the House committed to an exposure draft that has sought thousands of submissions. I acknowledge the comments by my colleague Tangi Utikere, the member for Palmerston North, who said they\u2019ve had hundreds of submissions at the Environment Committee for it. So, again, I go back to the bill being piecemeal. If you fundamentally want to be able to give regional councils greater authority to be able to make those decisions around the standards\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216650f5f729946c28d284d63c37a7e19\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: You centrally plan and take it away from them. That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295cd166391fe432fa9a865ed6970ee50\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first of all, have you read the RMA? Because, actually, the RMA allows all that currently. Section 44 means that the Minister, in order to recommend to the Governor-General to make these national environmental standards, has to actually have an evaluation report around those standards. What does that include? That includes advice\u2014advice from regional councils, advice from local councils, advice from the community, but it also includes advice from iwi. So I have read the RMA. I have read that particular section, which your proposed bill tries to change. And again, it\u2019s piecemeal. It makes it totally inconsistent with the current framework that we have, which is why this side of the House has gone for a much more significant, fundamental change of changing the RMA, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve gone through the exposure draft process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I want to go back to my initial comments: I want my children to be able to go back up to Northland to swim. We might even come by your farm if you can show us what exactly you are talking about around this riparian planting, etc., but as a Government, we\u2019re already working to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s resource management system is fit for the future. This bill is piecemeal. It\u2019s inconsistent, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re making bigger reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022f63923bafd814ec79c1b47267ada04a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f63923bafd814ec79c1b47267ada04a9\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, I just want to thank the various members for their concerns and various contributions. I noted that the Minister, the Hon David Parker, that spoke directly after me didn\u2019t seem to actually address the bill at all and actually just spoke about the history of the quality of New Zealand water, the fresh water that we\u2019re all concerned about and totally support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThis bill speaks quite specifically to regional nuances that have totally been overlooked by the centrist sort of Government overlay. I think, more sadly, I note that the Green member has this perpetual animus to the rural sector, and basically said farmers are the reason that environments across New Zealand have degraded to the level they have. Well, I totally repudiate that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFirstly, the ACT Party, along with rural communities and aforementioned stakeholders, request that the Government give this bill the consideration and opportunity for scrutiny at select committee that the process deserves. All across regional New Zealand it has been widely acknowledged that the often well-intentioned central government planning model frequently fails. We see it time and again\u2014the desired outcomes routinely failing. So many regions have established regionally indicative farm water fresh plans, environmental plans, put in place mitigations to protect against sediment loss. In many instances these farms\u2019 plans have been developed over decades, taking all considerations into account, and are continually being improved and upgraded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAll regional specificity is given to consideration to mitigate the environmental impacts whilst undertaking respective local farming practices. Such undertakings taken by the likes of Pomahaka Water Care and Environment Canterbury, affectionately known as ECan, along with the likes of Hurunui trust, all the wonderful work they\u2019re doing is totally obfuscated. They preserve both the environment and the area in which they live and farm. These endeavours are locally undertaken, they acknowledge regional nuances, giving consideration to such things as native plantings, freshwater preservation, understanding sedimentation loss and methodologies for certain things, as the member from the National Party mentioned, winter cropping and how to mitigate those environmental effects. These are regional endeavours that are mirrored up and down rural New Zealand. That\u2019s why this bill is a better way to proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIt will put pause on national planning standards over regional specificity and give that oversight back to councils. It will give farmers and industry certainty as it is they who best understand how to effect the changes and create the desired outcomes, to preserve the environment whilst equally supporting the productive primary sector that routinely we hear the Minister of Finance laud and applaud. Most importantly, it will give some sense of direction to those that live in their rural communities on how to operate in their rural communities, and some sense of fairness in what seems to be an ever increasing unfair world. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002231de92d753dc417ab719e457e44c1b3b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Resource Management (Regional Responsibility for Certain Agricultural Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002271326473e0ce463eb828abf7c4f6acf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271326473e0ce463eb828abf7c4f6acf7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, it\u2019s come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. I will return at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.01 p.m. to 7.00 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274667f047c184266adae2344424a2597\u0022\u003EAutonomous Sanctions Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bede96bd2bab41e2bc563684e8c0ac27\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbc4331c1f32482fa8dfc07b5ed90ef2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbc4331c1f32482fa8dfc07b5ed90ef2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Autonomous Sanctions Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill establishes a framework for the implementation of autonomous sanctions by New Zealand, to further its aims of enhancing New Zealand\u2019s diplomatic capabilities and to enhance the concept of our independent foreign policy. This is a bill that once, if it were to be, an Act, would provide a significant extra tool in the tool kit of diplomacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENew Zealand takes great pride in our independent foreign policy stance. We\u2019ve shown it on numerous occasions. And while that independence means that we choose our friends and support a rules-based international order, we do so autonomously. We are among the first and founding members of the United Nations. There have been many, many positives come out of that organisation. But when it comes to expressions of disapproval of rule breakers, of human rights abusers, of those who perpetrate acts of aggression or conquest of others, the United Nations falls well short of what might reasonably be expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENew Zealand relies heavily on the United Nations\u2019 sanction process. That process can impose sanctions on countries through the Security Council. The process, which is the only mechanism through which the United Nations can make legally binding resolutions\u2014and, therefore, New Zealand\u2014is subject to veto power by the permanent five members: the United States, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, and China. This undermines, in my opinion, its effectiveness, and I\u2019ll talk more about that, immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt often means that meaningful action against perpetrators of a break up of rules, of international bad behaviour, go unpunished. So if we look, for a start, at the Ukraine: following the 2014 cessation of Crimea to Russia, Russia vetoed attempts by the United Nations to declare that cessation illegal. So there was no commentary about that, and no consequence for that particular action. The resolution would have simply affirmed Ukraine\u2019s sovereignty, its independence, its unity, and its territorial integrity. Has New Zealand ever affirmed that on its own? Not to my knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen look at Syria. Since 2011, Russia has vetoed over 16 Security Council resolutions on the Syrian civil war and the humanitarian crisis that all too many of us have seen on the television sets, and all to protect Russia\u2019s ally, President al-Assad\u2019s Government. The resolutions were aimed at ending the civil war, providing diplomatic and humanitarian assistance to those who were most adversely affected by that conflict. We had nothing particular to say about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s Israel. Since 1972, the United States has blocked over 53 Security Council resolutions designed to get a greater degree of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. And more recently, there is Cambodia. What has ever been done for the total takeover of that country by its military?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnd then, of course, the one that no one likes to talk about, and that I think the Government is most concerned about, is the situation in Xinjiang, in China. China refused to enter into talks on even the drafting of a Security Council resolution that called into question abuses against Uighur people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn all these circumstances, it\u2019s the citizens of the country in question that suffer from the United Nations\u2019 inaction, and the political motivations of the permanent members will leave that always to be the case. When an autonomous sanctions regime is in place, action can be taken to assist in alleviating civilian suffering without the hamper of the interests of the five permanent members getting in the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo what are some examples of that? I\u2019ll come to those in a minute. But, firstly, let me just say that if a country can\u2019t sanction another country, then surely it can bring down some autonomous sanctions against individuals, against regimes, or against entities, where their assets might be frozen, their services dispensed with, their ability to enter this country denied, any interaction with them by citizens of this country also put into the \u201Ccan\u2019t do\u201D list. And these are circumstances where it may be that the Minister of Foreign Affairs decides that there is a threat to the stability of the Indo-Pacific area and that there is a necessity for us to make a very tangible statement and action and bring down sanctions against some particular individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn recent times, the countries that do have an autonomous sanctions regime, often referred to as the Magnitsky regulation or law, can bring down sanctions. The United States, for example, the European Union, the United Kingdom, and Canada impose some sanctions on actors alleged to be involved in human rights abuses in Xinjiang, China. The United Kingdom, in April 2021\u2014that\u2019s this year\u2014sanctioned 14 Russian nationals accused of conspiring in a $230 million corruption scheme, as part of the Government\u2019s anti - global corruption sanctions\u2014regulations created under the UK\u2019s version of autonomous sanctions. The United States, in June of this year, sanctioned three Bulgarian individuals and 64 countries over their involvement in facilitation of Russian interference in the Bulgarian Government. The United States, in July this year, sanctioned 22 Myanmar nationals, including Ministers, for their involvement in the country\u2019s February military coup and anti-democratic attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThese are examples of what an autonomous sanctions bill can do. I said before that it\u2019s known throughout the world as Magnitsky-type legislation. There is a great book out called Red Notice, and if anyone has an interest in how regimes that are totalitarian can operate and how much they can see lawlessness go under the radar, it\u2019s worth a read. It\u2019s written by a gentleman called Bill Browder. Bill Browder has been a tireless campaigner for Magnitsky-type legislation, because of the circumstances that he was put in. His Russian lawyer was a gentleman called Sergei Magnitsky. Well, Bill Browder was allowed to leave the country; Sergei was not. And, for various reasons, bad operators, bad actors, you might say, tortured Sergei Magnitsky and, ultimately, murdered him. Bill Browder went to legislators in the United States and said, \u201CWe\u2019ve got to do something about these people. They\u2019re thieves, they\u2019re murderers, and they use the international system to protect their ill-gotten gains and to avoid accountability for their crimes.\u201D And so the United States adopted Magnitsky legislation, named after Sergei because of the life that he lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThat legislation has been replicated by Governments of a similar type to New Zealand\u2014Governments and countries that value freedom, Governments and countries that don\u2019t like the idea that lawless people can go about their activities without any account. And so this bill that I\u2019m bringing to the House tonight would enable New Zealand to bring in a similar type of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIf anyone does need any convincing about exactly what drove this legislation and what drives the desire to have it throughout the world, can I recommend you go to a wonderful podcast called The Backroom of Politics, by Gerry Brownlee. In it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226350d1f6e62f4c80bff8ae4e94ba3d3f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255b79d675e8c4b4a8792a22caa174c4e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve got to take your advertising chances. But in it there is a there is a great podcast\u2014Minister Mahuta, you\u2019d love it\u2014with Bill Browder in which he outlines the dreadful situation that\u2019s motivated him to put so much of his life into this type of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo can I conclude by saying that this is a bill that would give life to the independent foreign policy stance long claimed by New Zealand. It is an essential but simple tool in the toolbox of democracy, and I commend it to the House and do hope that the Government is not too frightened to vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022820d42e4df9241b48f341ca6bc70ee60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022820d42e4df9241b48f341ca6bc70ee60\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E That podcast may be well worth a listen! I want to welcome the opportunity to speak on the Autonomous Sanctions Bill. While Labour won\u2019t be supporting this bill to progress, it is important to set out our approach that we are taking and some of the shortcomings that we do see in the bill, with all respect to the sponsoring member, the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ENew Zealand articulates its independent values-based foreign policy with a focus on human rights; an open and transparent democracy; upholding international rules and norms; a commitment to multilateralism; and promoting regional peace, prosperity, and stability. The world we are living in is very different, and when I consider that the genesis of this bill dates back, probably, to about 2012, so much has happened: a global pandemic, increased competition for scarce natural resources, the impact of climate change, armed conflict, economic coercion, and geostrategic positioning in our region that has caused us to reflect on the role that we might play at this time. Against this backdrop, we need to consider the place for foreign policy and diplomacy and the need for strong domestic legislation to platform what we value, who we are, and what we stand for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve said previously that the autonomous sanctions regime is a suite of tools that are used as a measure of last resort when diplomatic sanctions and diplomacy simply have not worked to the degree necessary. They are often characterised as a stronger set of measures that have economic and trade consequences. In the New Zealand context, we need to consider this element of how a sanctions regime might impact on our economy and exporting community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe also need to consider the context of our values-based approach to foreign policy and to work collectively in the pursuit of our core interests, which include an international rules-based order which gives all countries a voice and provides frameworks that promote stability; keeping New Zealanders safe by promoting regional stability; international conditions and connections that aid our prosperity, including supply chain resilience; and global action on sustainability issues such as climate change. Aotearoa\u2019s record on the world stage shows we are most effective when we take this approach internationally. We exhaust our diplomatic tool kit to influence and lead change. We build and strengthen our relationships that are with an independent foreign policy perspective that promotes strong relationships and acknowledges the mana of all countries. This is what we must bear in mind when considering this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis bill was first drafted back in 2012, and while the bill has not changed too much, the international environment has. The challenges confronting us have become increasingly more complex: COVID has highlighted the impact of growing inequality; competition for scarce resources; climate change impacts; geostrategic competition; the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction; terrorism; human rights abuses; and the list goes on. This also reinforces the enduring importance of New Zealand\u2019s belief in the use of multilateral avenues to be able to influence change and, over time, the international rules and norms that should be contextualised for the challenges that we are facing today. We do so because our voice is greater when we speak together with other like-minded States and because a rules-based order protects the rights and interests of smaller States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI welcome the debate on autonomous sanctions. This is the first opportunity we have had to do so. We need to consider what is in New Zealand\u2019s best interest. This Government is looking at how to provide greater support for human rights around the world. Since coming into Government, we have made progress on a number of fronts to strengthen our domestic legislative context, including taking action to tackle modern slavery with an all-of-Government action plan and a pre-election commitment to explore implementation of modern slavery legislation; progressing our counter-terrorism laws to protect New Zealanders and make us safer while bringing us into line with other countries; reviewing our export control regime to ensure it is fit for purpose and meets the values of this Government and our country; strengthening our maritime laws to prevent serious criminal offending and transnational organised crime. We also have our existing tool kit, including options like travel bans, redirecting aid, the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act, diplomatic representations, recourse through multilateral institutions, and the international rules and norms that we\u2019ve so often spoken about in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe are looking at the best way to utilise our tool kit and the options within. We need to understand what we have in our tool kit for responding internationally, not stand up a regime that is not fit for purpose. An autonomous sanctions regime would be an option of last resort and something to be used only after this full range of other options had been exhausted. It cannot be seen as a way of avoiding or an effective substitute for multilateral action; indeed, it should not be called upon by outsiders beyond New Zealand to strong arm our own interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI believe that the bill as it stands is unfit for purpose beyond what could be rectified through its continued consideration beyond first reading. Firstly, the bill fails to take into account the importance of any autonomous sanctions regime implemented today, facing the upholding of human rights at its centre; although much has been spoken about it in the introduction of the bill. In the case of this bill, human rights issues are not considered at all, in contrast with Australia\u2019s recent consideration of how human rights could fit within its own autonomous sanctions regime. In addition to this, the bill\u2019s focus on the Asia-Pacific region is likely too narrow. The effect of these oversights is that sanctions could not be levelled to respond to severe human rights abuses if they did not constitute a threat to peace and security in the Asia-Pacific region. The bill also fails to cover some emerging risks, such as threats to cyber-security. These omissions highlight the importance of taking the time to get this issue right, also to discuss with the public what the impact of an autonomous sanction regime would have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAs mentioned earlier, as part of a values-based approach to foreign policy, it is incumbent on the Government to consider what more it can do to support the upholding of human rights around the world. This work will include what role an autonomous sanctions regime could play within this framework. So I\u2019m not ruling it out; it is just that the bill falls short of expectations on that front. I look forward to having more of a say on this as we continue the Government\u2019s process. However, we continue to favour multilateral collaboration and adherence to well-established rules and norms, whether this be in an economic, health, or humanitarian context; hence the particular need for security when a framework of unilateral action is proposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAgain, while much of Mr Brownlee\u2019s submission to propose this particular bill focuses on human rights, that premise is not as clearly stated at the heart and purpose of this particular bill. The bill falls short and fails to stand up to that level of scrutiny, and is why we won\u2019t be supporting it to first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225f6e25b5784e49bdb10cf410c62194c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f6e25b5784e49bdb10cf410c62194c8\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I rise to acknowledge, I believe, one of the participants of the aforementioned podcast, Golriz Ghahraman, who, along with Auckland-based MPs, are doing their bit to keep us safe in level 3 up in Auckland. So I\u2019m subbing in, coming off the bench, so to speak\u2014just like Sonny Bill Williams, except I\u2019m slower, shorter, and have no athletic ability at all. But, nevertheless, I was excited, initially, to pick up this bill: I thought it said the \u201CAutonomous Sanctuaries Bill\u201D, and I thought, \u201CWell, that\u2019s very anarcho-syndicalist.\u201D It gave me nostalgia for the Paris Commune of 1871. But I am still learning to get the glasses-and-face-mask combo happening and so the glasses were a bit fogged up and, actually, it was the Autonomous Sanctions Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to introduce a legal framework in New Zealand for the direct imposition of autonomous sanctions on foreign individuals, entities, assets, and services, which creates a way for New Zealand to impose sanctions against others without action from the United Nations Security Council. We live in a world where we need more collaboration and more cooperation from the issues of climate change, biodiversity loss, solving the questions of world poverty and war and conflict resolution, and how that is increasingly connected to the obscene accumulation of capital. For every occasion there is a meme, and as I was reading through this bill, one passed my horizon, and that meme went: \u201CIf you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together.\u201D\u2014if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together. So, yes, we need to go fast, but with the plethora of so many issues, we need to go far and we need to arrive together. Me is a name I call myself, but far is a long, long way to run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EUnilateral actions undermine the global rule of law. Autonomous sanctions apparently seek to remedy deadlocks in the Security Council sanction regime by setting a precedent, with each country going off and applying sanctions by their own standards and political context. This would undermine both international law and cooperation at the global level. The bill makes an approach that is counter to standing up for fair, cooperative, transparent reform of international institutions based on the rule of law. Instead, it encourages a global landscape where each nation acts alone to exert its own political and moral interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe bill also misses the point that the Security Council is not the only way for Aotearoa New Zealand to contribute to a global rules-based order of sanctions. For example, many sanctions go through the UN General Assembly by consensus of States working together or regional bodies that bring together closely linked neighbour States based on existing sanctions law. Allowing the application of unilateral sanctions will still protect the powerful global actors, and while the bill may appear to be about applying international human rights and humanitarian law without the impediment of the political antics of the Security Council, it creates further risk of politicisation of sanctions rather than fairness and equity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWe know that sanctions are only likely to be applied against nations of the Global South, so the power structures of the Security Council are likely to be replicated there, with the US and China, as well as the nations they seek to protect, remaining exempt. This bill will demonstrate, unfortunately, an unwillingness to engage meaningfully in reforming those power dynamics within legitimate international institutions. We should instead play a role creating a connected and compassionate world where the global community works together to address issues including climate change, human rights, and public health by upholding the international rule of law and promoting peace and shared responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe world is going through a period of instability with the impacts of climate change, COVID-19, war, international inequality, mass displacement, pollution and biodiversity loss, among the many challenges. Lack of political resolve to combat these challenges leads to poor outcomes for people and the planet. The lack of resolve can only be countered with the politics of cooperation and collaboration. We need to position ourselves to take on an independent and principled position on global affairs by addressing current and historic global injustices, strengthening international law, and championing disarmament. We need to support a world that provides international mediation and conflict resolution and be grounded in principles of environmental protection and restoration equity, human rights, shared responsibility, and non-violence. So we will not be supporting this bill, unfortunately. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa2ae69151ec4aa2a3189f34924e17f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa2ae69151ec4aa2a3189f34924e17f7\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. New Zealand is an independent nation with an independent values-based foreign policy which speaks volumes about what we stand for, what we care for, and why we want to work in our region, how we want to work in our region and beyond on issues that matter to us and to our like-minded partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThe world is evolving, the world is changing, and we are facing considerable challenges posed by COVID-19 pandemics, geopolitical crises that are constantly shifting, and climate change, and the list goes on. To let our values-based policy go at this critical time is unwise. In fact, if we have to stick to it\u2014this is the time to basically not to let it go but stick to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ESince coming into Government, as the Hon Nanaia Mahuta said, we have addressed a lot of issues. One of those issues is modern slavery and counter-terrorism. We just had a bill a couple of days ago\u2014in fact, yesterday\u2014money-laundering, which is a big issue for all of us, and the Government has proudly dealt with this issue. So this is not the time to walk away from the way that we work traditionally and adopt a new system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis bill disregards the human rights issue, even though the member has intended for this bill to address the human rights issue by imposing sanctions to international entities. We have seen this policy constantly causing issues and in fact, causing crisis. The United States and some other superpowers acted like an international police and it didn\u2019t work. That is not what New Zealand stands for. It\u2019s not like us and we don\u2019t need it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EIf we wanted to deal with international issues and the crisis, we\u2019ve got our own tools, our diplomacy, which is effective. We have seen it in Afghanistan lately. When the crisis unfolded, we responded and things worked quite well, and our relationship with multilateral organisations works quite well. The United Nations, the Security Council, the International Criminal Court\u2014these all work for us quite well so we don\u2019t need this approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ECountries that have adopted this bill, like Australia, have disregarded human rights. Then they realised that they made a mistake and now they are considering their ways, and they are working to adopt human rights back into it. This bill doesn\u2019t include that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ETo me, it\u2019s quite simple why we oppose this bill. We oppose it because it disregards human rights abuse. It disregards and disrespects the multilateral organisations that we have a very good relationship with. It disregards our longstanding values-based approach on international politics. This bill does not provide for sanctions with respect to emerging areas of security risk such as cyber-security. This bill simply is not fit for purpose. In fact, it diminishes New Zealand\u2019s place globally. Therefore, we cannot support this bill. On that note, I will just end it there and, because of the things that I have mentioned above, we don\u2019t support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c93b373a2af94b21b8fb0fceb71dc03a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c93b373a2af94b21b8fb0fceb71dc03a\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the Autonomous Sanctions Bill and to support it at its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party believes that our foreign policy should be to uphold the safety of all New Zealand citizens, but also to reflect our interests and our values. The ACT Party believes that the values of human rights, individual freedoms, and democratic liberties are of utmost importance. We take a lot of our liberties for granted, things like women\u2019s rights, even being able to stand here in this Chamber; freedom of association, joining clubs and groups; being able to speak freely what is on our mind; and, importantly, to have freedom of religion, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut we also recognise that we are a small trading nation, and for a lot of other countries, they don\u2019t necessarily think of us as a big player, so it\u2019s important for us to be part of a rules-based order. In order for us to maintain peace and security we need to work with other countries around the world to maintain rules that are fair and equal and provide peace and stability, not only for our country and our region but for the world. We do this mainly through diplomatic ties and advocating our values through those means, but also through trade liberalisation and signing free-trade agreements. We also do so through defence which, I note, is severely lacking when we\u2019re not actually part of a new agreement with some of our strongest allies. But, mainly, we do this through the UN.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Security Council has five main players, and, unfortunately, while it has been used in the past to maintain peace and security, we also note that, in some instances, the big players don\u2019t seem to uphold peace and security within their own countries. Through veto powers, things don\u2019t go as they should to have sanctions be put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, the ACT Party is very proud that we brought a motion to Parliament earlier this year to condemn the severe human rights abuses that have occurred in the Xinjiang region of China against Uighurs and other ethnic minorities. But we also note that there was a gutless move from the Government to water down our motion, and I note, the Minister\u2019s comments here today also sound gutless, talking about the fact that this bill doesn\u2019t go far enough talking about human rights. Well, that\u2019s absolutely obscene. If she has a problem with the bill, that is why you send it to select committee; if it doesn\u2019t go far enough, send it to the select committee. Don\u2019t go opposing this bill just because you might be scared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe need to have a framework that sits outside what is the way that we sanction through the UN, and that is what this bill seeks to do. It puts in place a framework for us to do what is called an autonomous sanction, and I think that is really important, especially as we see today issues in Newsroom being announced about foreign interference in New Zealand\u2019s media. It is time that New Zealand decided it was a sovereign nation. We shouldn\u2019t shy away from the big problems; they will always be there, but we need new ways of upholding peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022531c84d0761243b2a9ea87bbbaf57ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022531c84d0761243b2a9ea87bbbaf57ceb\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Thank you. I rise to take a call on the Autonomous Sanctions Bill. Can I firstly congratulate the member. It seems to be today that it\u2019s customary to acknowledge members who\u2019ve had their bill drawn from the ballot, whether you\u2019ve been here for a short time or something longer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ef0fad154d4b8498bc8bb329faa7ae\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Leave it\u2014just give me your vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d301aec3c1bf41dda0f91f5ffa75f66d\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I\u2019ll acknowledge that it\u2019s been drawn, none the less, to the member Mr Brownlee. What I would say is that Minister Mahuta has outlined a good position, and I intend to come back to that, but fundamentally this is an issue that is at the heart of our country\u2019s foreign policy arrangements. And just in reflection on the comments and contributions from the ACT member who has just resumed her seat, Brooke van Velden, this is not a situation of being scared. It\u2019s about what\u2019s the right thing to do in a context that is always evolving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe context really is around whether or not it\u2019s appropriate to step outside or back from what are the current arrangements that are in place, and I guess it\u2019s important, then, to take a look at what that current framework looks like. Fundamentally, it\u2019s one that is significantly based on a United Nations one, and, actually, it reminds me of my days as a teacher. Perhaps, Mr Brownlee, as a former teacher, you\u2019ll indulge me just a moment. I know that Mr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb2497f38534807a2d7f9b723b66f61\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: He was a woodwork teacher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab314c3494d4df4972a698b880a2a44\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a teacher none the less\u2014practical in nature, I guess, Mr Nash, and I know that Mr Tuiono always enjoys a commentary of history from me from time to time, as well. But it takes me back to where the option of choice was one of New Zealand\u2019s search for security, 1945 through to 1985. A key part of that unit of work is really around the longstanding nature of New Zealand\u2019s ties with the United Nations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMembers already this evening have commented on the different organs, whether it is around the Security Council, whether it\u2019s the International Court of Justice, whether it\u2019s around other UN roles in the Human Rights Council or the like. We have historically had a really strong connection to that organ. Actually, the member himself referred to us as a founding member. That indicates the strength there. And I guess it\u2019s really that strength of connection that forces us to think about what actually would permit us to step outside of that current arrangement. I guess we could, but the question is, undoubtedly, should we, and, if so, what for? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe bill clearly has a focus on the Asia-Pacific region, and that is something that is important to all New Zealanders. The focus on Asia\u2014the focus, for me, particularly on the Pacific region\u2014is significant, and historically, we have had arrangements\u2014whether it be a treaty of friendship with our Pacific neighbour, whether it\u2019s around, you know, self-governing and free association, there are still options there, as well. What this bill seeks to do is indicate some amendments to the United Nations Act of 1946. Now, that is a significant piece of legislation in time. I\u2019m not suggesting that we should not seek to amend legislation that is historical, but what I am suggesting is that there needs to be a really good reason as to why we would seek to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to reflect on the contribution of my colleague Ibrahim Omer, because he makes a good point, actually: the fact that other countries that have explored this as an option or an approach have found somewhat the situation that there are some failures with it. As my colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta indicated, it\u2019s about considering time and place, and also what the current context is all about. And so I do want to reflect on her comments, because it is about considerations in developing and maintaining an independent sense of a foreign policy outlook and what that looks like. This evening she talked about, as a nation, our focus, and as a Government, our focus on behalf of the people of New Zealand is on supporting that international rules-based order that gives all countries a voice\u2014all countries, including ours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EAnd within that, we have a role to play. It\u2019s around ensuring that there is stability, particularly in the Asia-Pacific region, but beyond, as well, and, again, we have a role to play in that. It is, as she has said, about the safety of New Zealanders and what that looks like in an ever-changing context, currently and into the future. And, of course, it is about sustainability and the real pressures around climate change. So, as a country, New Zealand does exhaust our diplomatic tools in our tool kit, and at this stage, the view of members on this side of the House is that it\u2019s not one to progress the member\u2019s bill. And so on that basis, I won\u2019t be supportive of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u0022798b9f83d767478587a9ed570810f471\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022798b9f83d767478587a9ed570810f471\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to take a call on the Autonomous Sanctions Bill before the House today. I want to start by acknowledging Mr Brownlee and for his bill, you know, being chosen from the ballot. I guess the most significant contribution from Mr Brownlee today was the conversation around his podcast, which I noticed is not in the top 100 political podcasts of New Zealand, but I have subscribed to it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee, your bill proposes to establish a framework for implementation of international sanctions by New Zealand outside of the United Nations Security Council Chapter 7 framework. It is important to note, however, that\u2014Mr Brownlee\u2014it is wrong to assert that without this bill, New Zealand has absolutely no international control. Governments do have a significant area of tools that they can use to respond to security and human rights abuses, including diplomatic relations, statements, travel bans, as well as export controls and restrictions. But I do note that this Government and our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nanaia Mahuta, continue to work in this space as they consider what more they can do to support human rights around the world. Part of that work, as I understand, is to consider what role an autonomous sanction bill like this could play. But to me, there are three key differences or issues currently proposed by your bill. These three issues include a lack of in-depth consideration of human rights issues, a lack of consideration of emerging risks, and, more importantly, a lack of playing as a team member with other members of the United Nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee, you gave some really good examples of human rights abuses across the world. You talked about Syria. You talked about Russia. Yet your well-meaning bill fails to mention any human rights in clause 8 of the bill, which lays out a threshold for implementing sanctions that you propose. Not only that, the human rights are considered nowhere else in this whole bill. The bill also does not provide for sanctions with respect to the emerging areas of security risk. We have recently seen, in the past few months, many cyber-attacks on some of our very important institutions in this country. This includes the NZX, the ANZ Bank, and, in my case, even our local Waikato Hospital in Hamilton. It is important that we consider these emerging risks when we are proposing a significant bill like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EIn addition to this, as a lot of my colleagues have mentioned, the problem here is that we are a member of the international community. It is important that we take into consideration our already existing diplomatic relationship within the framework of the United Nations, because to go outside it means many more countries will move away from this, and then you get to a point where nobody is following a consistent rule of law. I understand that Australia has a bill like this already in place, but it has the same issues that your bill faces. The main one it includes is around the human rights violation, which it doesn\u2019t cover, but also some of the new security risks that I\u2019ve mentioned, like the cyber-security issue. At the moment, the Australian Government is looking at amending their bill significantly to address these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EIn the current form that your bill has been proposed to the House it would need to go through a significant amendment process in going through a select committee stage, which would mean that the final bill would look very different from what you are proposing. Looking at all of that, it makes more sense to restart a new bill, if you want to, which will address some of these important issues. Because if you\u2019re talking about human rights issues in Syria, if you\u2019re talking about human rights issues in Russia, if you\u2019re talking about human rights issues in China, then you do need to address this in your bill. As I said, the clause 8, which specifically mentions the sanctions and the conditions required for it, doesn\u2019t talk about human rights at all, and without it, the bill just completely fails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ESo I would urge the member to consider some of these important things because of which he has obviously brought the bill to the House, including things like cyber-security, as I said, because that is the future of risk that we are talking about, which many of us will face from time to time. So I oppose the bill, just like many other members of the House, in moving forward. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0907e60c2924c2a895164c646faded1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0907e60c2924c2a895164c646faded1\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a privilege to rise tonight in the House as the National Party\u2019s associate spokesperson for defence and the member of Parliament for Southland to speak in support of the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2019s Autonomous Sanctions Bill. I congratulate the member for bringing this bill before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThere is no escaping the reality that we live in a complex geopolitical environment. It is imperative for us in this country to manage our economic and security interests in that increasingly complex environment. This bill aims to further enhance New Zealand\u2019s diplomatic capabilities and our independent foreign policy, which the Government has very recently spoken about, by establishing a framework for the implementation of autonomous sanctions in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn recent days, we\u2019ve heard a lot about New Zealand\u2019s independent foreign policy, including from the Prime Minister, particularly in relation to our effective exclusion from the AUKUS trilateral security partnership. However, it is difficult to say that New Zealand has an independent foreign policy when we have extremely limited options in respect of placing sanctions on individuals who might be operating contrary to the best interests of this country. Currently, New Zealand must rely on the United Nations\u2019 sanctions process, which imposes sanctions on countries through the Security Council. However, the UN, despite its strengths as a multilateral system, has some weaknesses in that it is reliant on the five permanent councils of the UN Security Council who can, and often do, exercise their veto power, and, in fact, often matters are not brought before the council because of those veto powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo our long history of independent foreign policy is, in effect, hampered by those veto powers. Of course, we would be very cautious in using these matters, taking care to consider the geopolitical scenario, and would only use them in extremely limited circumstances. But it\u2019s important that we do have that tool available to us. Our Government should have the ability to make choices to sanction individuals in circumstances which are contrary to the best interests of our country and against our values and our system of Government, while minimising the consequential effect on the wider population. It is recognised that, in many cases, the practical impact of sanctions imposed by New Zealand would be limited by our comparatively small size and our geographic isolation, and the recognition of the fact that we are a small trading nation who is reliant on trade with many countries around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ENevertheless, it is important that New Zealand can demonstrate its commitment to matters that are of concern to our people and our values. It\u2019s important that New Zealand can emphasize the importance of our democracy, of commitment to human rights, the rule of law, and our fundamental freedoms. Aside from our traditional Five Eyes friends and partners who have adopted an autonomous sanctions regime, Japanese parliamentarians are also currently considering an autonomous sanctions regime of their own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn 2017, in a regulatory impact statement on this bill, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade advised that New Zealand\u2019s other Five Eyes partners all possessed the ability to impose sanctions outside of the United Nations regime, with a growing risk that New Zealand would be perceived as an easy target because of gaps in the range of sanction measures able to be imposed. The limited sanction type powers that are currently at the Government\u2019s disposal are not seen either here or by like-minded partners as being sufficient to address situations of real concern, a perception which may have only increased in recent years. I note that our traditional allies\u2014the United Kingdom, the United States, the European Union, and Canada\u2014all have their own regimes of this kind, and have the ability to impose targeted sanctions where appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe Hon Nanaia Mahuta raised the point of the rules-based international order and well established international rules and norms. Those are matters of great importance. She also noted that an autonomous sanctions regime would be a matter of last resort. I largely don\u2019t disagree, or in fact, I don\u2019t disagree with most of what she said. However, unfortunately, the Labour Government, by voting down this, removes the ability to have that last resort. In effect, the Hon Gerry Brownlee has passed the ball to Labour, and Labour, rather than carrying the ball forward and improving gaps they have identified, as they see it, in the legislation, have rather kicked the ball to touch, and that is deeply disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIt is a great pleasure to rise and to speak in support of this bill, and unfortunately it will, obviously, be voted down by the Government. Let\u2019s hope they see sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3b348ecbcfc415badf80a3004ff27e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3b348ecbcfc415badf80a3004ff27e9\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is traditional at this stage to congratulate the member whose bill was drawn from the ballot, but I want to go a little bit further. I mean, the irony of having been a recent foreign affairs Minister and to draw a bill from the ballot which is so close to the subject and the topics of that previous ministry must have brought much joy to the member when it was brought. He must have thought there was an irony in it. It\u2019s the same joy, perhaps, of another bill being drawn out of the ballot by Sir David Carter when he drew the Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill, and then subsequently passed on to his colleague\u2014now everyone\u2019s ex-colleague\u2014Nick Smith. Again, the eagerness in which they will have attacked that, because obviously it was topics near and dear to their hearts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut this bill\u2014and there\u2019s a lot to like about it on first reading. However, like many members\u2019 bills that come before this House, it\u2019s very important that they be seen in their context, because what often happens\u2014and we all, at different stages of our lives, often on our way here, have ended up having to deal with pieces of legislation. Sometimes they come back here for a fix because the full implications of the legislation we pass here, if the proper policy work is not done, and we don\u2019t work through the real implications of it, and it is done in isolation\u2014which, as I say, so often members\u2019 bills, as they are now, do\u2014then we end up with something that is not workable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, this is an important issue, and it needs to be done properly. Multilateralism is something the world is lacking currently. If we have a look at the things that are bothering the world most at the moment\u2014we\u2019ll just have a look at Afghanistan, which was one of the more recent. OK, it was NATO that decided to go into Afghanistan, but it wasn\u2019t UN sanctioned. I wouldn\u2019t say it was quite a unilateral act, but certainly it wasn\u2019t done with the sanction of the UN, nor subsequently was the invasion of Iraq. Both those things have left the world in a heck of a mess, and that, again, is why we really do need to be looking at multilateral response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EEven COVID\u2014as I look across the House and see my masked colleagues, I can\u2019t help but be reminded of this ever-present problem that is COVID. How much better would our response have been if we had been truly multilateral? But no, what we\u2019ve done is each nation going into their shell, doing what is best for them, with little consideration for other nations. We saw today, news about how bad it is in Africa, how other nations are not working to ensure that we do get the remedy into Africa. Even our own selves, bilateralism certainly has enabled us to get our own COVID response up to where it needs to be, but a multilateral approach, which is really the antithesis of what we\u2019re talking about here, would have been so much better for the world in which we exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo again, I\u2019d say to the member who drew this, he will know from his previous role as a Minister of Foreign Affairs that to actually walk on the world globe, it is the multilateralism\u2014the power and the strength of the multilateral approach\u2014that enables New Zealand to be able to get to the table where it needs to be. And the trend that this bill epitomises, which is moving back towards each nation making its own decisions, each nation putting in its own sanctions, just weakens the response that we need as a world if we\u2019re going to put it in a better shape than certainly it is now or we can expect it to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019d say to the member is well done. As I say, there is a lot to like about the bill, but it\u2019s something that really does have to be seen in the context of a desire and a need for a multilateral approach to the type of issues that it does seek to remedy, so I can\u2019t support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00221683d50ffd494e4eb3d2a6d567e53872\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221683d50ffd494e4eb3d2a6d567e53872\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to stand and take a call on the Autonomous Sanctions Bill. I do it very respectfully, knowing the experience that you bring this bill to the House with as a former Minister of Foreign Affairs. I appreciate you were not the Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014self caught, Madam Speaker. So we really appreciate\u2014other speakers have reflected on this\u2014the intent behind this bill: the attempt to improve our ability to respond to issues of real concern on the international stage. But, unfortunately, this is the wrong solution to the problem. We welcome the debate. We welcome the expectation that these issues should be looked at carefully and thoughtfully because they are complex in an ever-moving environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe are living in a world of global uncertainty, the scale and pace of which we haven\u2019t experienced before. We need to make sure that our kete, our tool kit, is nimble and effective. So that is why we welcome this debate, because it is really important that we make sure that our tool kit is a good one. Unfortunately, this doesn\u2019t hit the mark. It is too narrow and it is short-sighted. The idea of attending to human rights abuses outside of the Asia-Pacific region is a missed opportunity. The idea of missing emerging areas such as cyber-security\u2014and one thing that we have learnt is that issues like cyber-security remind us that our neighbourhood is not just those in the Asia-Pacific region or in the Waikato, but, actually, it is a global community with such issues. It is because of this pace and complexity of change that we have to make sure that anything that does get enhanced in our tool kit is able to be nimble and responsive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo sending this bill to select committee will be insufficient because the changes that would be required, the intensely intricate policy work that needs to be done, would surely require changes to the bill that would sit outside of its scope. We are really pleased with the thinking that has gone into it. What we would hope is that experience and the challenges that have been brought to us with this bill mean that everybody across the House will pitch in and help to enhance the significant tools that we already have at our disposal, the significant international controls we already can utilise. We want to have a coherent approach that makes sure that we can respond to issues of real concern as they arise across the world. We\u2019re futureproofed. We want to make sure that we can connect and enhance the tools that we already have and bilateral arrangements and multilateral tools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe do have to come back to the classroom occasionally, some of us do remember those days. Many times over the years we\u2019ve had model UN and, actually, World Trade Organisation debates in our senior classrooms, because it is really important for our young people to understand the significant connections and relationships that we have globally in order for us to participate in them. And very, very quickly\u2014because, of course, you\u2019d have to set up a rogue nation who would go off and do things on their own\u2014you would find the students would very quickly understand the power of collaboration. That collaboration is so important, and we\u2019re seeing it today in our response to COVID: a whole pile of different world views attending to problems. A whole pile of different voices attending to problems means we are more likely to be able to find real and lasting solutions that mean that we can attend to our absolute need for peace and security. We are really pleased that the issue has been raised, but we do not think that it attends or answers the questions, and these are the wrong solutions to the problems, and as such, I cannot be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13c93472f7748908bbfeeb9ff723b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13c93472f7748908bbfeeb9ff723b53\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Can I start by thanking all members of the House for their contribution on this particular bill. Some of them I don\u2019t agree with, obviously, but others have made pretty solid points. I want to just reflect for a moment on the speech by the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, in which she said that there is the prospect of the Government itself doing something more in the future. I think some of the breadth of what she indicated needs to be dealt with in terms of sanctions and New Zealand\u2019s autonomous ability to raise sanctions was somewhat wide of the mark, because in this case I\u2019m simply looking at a bill that will identify mainly individuals, mainly regimes, and mainly entities who offend against the laws of New Zealand and against our view of how the international community should behave. You know, there was the suggestion that we\u2019ve passed anti-slavery law in this last Parliament, and that\u2019s true\u2014we have, and it\u2019s a good thing. But let\u2019s be very clear: there is no capacity in any law in New Zealand to go after an individual slaver. This bill would enable that to happen. We have a list of terror organisations. They are outlawed in New Zealand\u2014can\u2019t operate, can\u2019t be here\u2014but where is the law that lets us go after an individual terrorist? They don\u2019t exist. So I think that there is an opportunity that\u2019s lost here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhile the members have, I think, often referred to what their research notes might\u2019ve said\u2014that the bill is deficient in a number of ways, it would need a whole lot of work, a select committee would take too much time\u2014it comes back to that statement that was pointed out by my colleague Joseph Mooney, the statement from Minister Mahuta where she said that sanctions like this or provisions like this should be a last resort. Well, doesn\u2019t that imply, as Mr Mooney said, that there is no last resort at the moment? Doesn\u2019t it, effectively, agree that if the United Nations isn\u2019t on board with something that we find offensive, there\u2019s nothing\u2014no statement from New Zealand. And I gave that list to the House of where New Zealand has been, in my opinion, ominously silent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there is the interesting comment, also from the Minister, that there are economic and trade considerations. Well, I would like to see those explained. I\u2019d like to see why New Zealand\u2019s foreign policy, its independent foreign policy, is constrained by economic and trade concerns. What does that mean? It means that the Government has made a conscious trade-off between making statements about things that we consider important as a nation and the dollars that come into this country. Now, that might make sense, but you can\u2019t then say that, actually, we\u2019re very good at getting alongside countries, very good at getting alongside individuals and using our vast range of diplomatic skills to negotiate through different problems, if there is no addressing of what the problem is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think there\u2019s a bit of a head in the sand approach being taken by the analysis of this bill. If it was so wrong, but, as many of the speakers over there have said, good in other parts, why not adopt it as a Government bill? Doesn\u2019t have to be in my name\u2014could be in the name of the Government, could be rewritten by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT). They could\u2019ve moved a little bit in their views since 2012\u2014although, sometimes, I wonder if that\u2019s the case. Or it could\u2019ve been perhaps sent to a select committee and then referred back to the House. There\u2019s a range of things that could\u2019ve happened. So many members over there called for debate, but then tonight this\u2019ll be shut, and I\u2019ll bet, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f70c4a9f63429184d4e254498563f6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584eaee503284c0c912727c99b73acd5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that we do not, Madam Speaker\u2014Madam Speaker\u2014see another bill of this type from the Government in this term of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a timidness about this Government, and if it was ever on display and demonstrated as a view held by partner countries that we have had such long associations with, it was the absolute sidelining of New Zealand through the AUKUS arrangement that\u2019s been put in place just recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a2d2e9575c4759a112c7a2a7d6a490\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on! Come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022506187bad8064db9a256b1dca89235c4\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Now, there they go over there. They say, \u201COh, come on!\u201D We know\u2014we know\u2014that directly from MFAT the Prime Minister got called an hour before the public announcement, after the Australian, UK, and US media had all been told about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290fd7912510044bfa9a7f77fd99c6fd1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That member knows better than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20a62df39aa47b393a3a1a67d40b26e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s how good a friend we are. That\u2019s how valuable we are. The junior Minister over there thinks he knows what\u2019s going on at the seventh floor; he simply doesn\u2019t. It is indicative of just how far we have slipped in international standing, and this defeat tonight won\u2019t help it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208829618ee1b482383cb93ed09f43f78\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Autonomous Sanctions Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e773aa7377e545008da3107226489730\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3f3fec3701446dfaa12dfd062651941\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e47a629f79174ba885048e4c006f84c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e47a629f79174ba885048e4c006f84c3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Local Government Act 2002 and better align the transparency requirements of local elected members with that of members of Parliament and the Executive Council. Can I, firstly, acknowledge my colleague the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan for her work in originally placing this bill into the ballot. As a new member, I was very comfortable to take this bill forward, and the reason for that is because the purpose of this bill is quite simply to improve transparency, but also to strengthen public trust and confidence in the decision-making process of and for local authorities up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELocal democracy is so important, and all members in this House will attest to that within their own local communities. Decisions around council tables can vary, whether it\u2019s about lease arrangements for local facilities, whether it\u2019s about the particular zoning, sale, or disposal of land, or whether it\u2019s about what is a suitable rates rise when councils strike their rates on an annual basis. Local communities expect and deserve to know that all of those decisions and the many other decisions that local councils make are fair and transparent, because transparency is also important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn the conversations that I\u2019ve had with electors over many years, they have an expectation that there is transparency: transparency in the process, that the process is, firstly, understood, and, secondly, it\u2019s fair; and transparency that those who are involved in the decision-making process declare what relevant interests they may have in making those decisions. And those, in my view, are not unrealistic expectations of those who make decisions at any level. This bill intends to provide an opportunity to do exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis bill provides a minimum standard of transparency for elected members to abide by. Prior to my election to this Parliament, I served as an elected member for just over 10 years as a Palmerston North city councillor and deputy mayor, and on an annual basis I was required to file an annual declaration around my assets and interests. In preparation for my contribution tonight, I managed to fish out the one that I filed last year, and I see that I was required to declare any employment that I was engaged in for any profit or gain; any company, trust, partnership of which I was a director, partner, trustee, or beneficiary; any land in which I had a beneficial interest within Palmerston North City; and other matters, including non-pecuniary relationships, such as affiliations with clubs, community organisations, and others. But I also, actually, note that I had to include those declarations as they also related to any of my close family members. So I commend the Palmerston North City Council on its high level of transparency in that regard. In addition, I was also required to disclose any gifts I\u2019d received over a particular financial threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOver those years, I simply assumed that these were requirements that were set for all councils in New Zealand. I have subsequently learnt that is not the case. In fact, it appears, as is the case with Palmerston North City Council, that often the requirement to declare certain interests, or not, rests upon whether councils have provisions that call for it in their internal documents, such as a council code of conduct. As it currently stands, depending on the council, local government representatives can keep their interests private as long as they do not discuss or vote on matters that they have a direct financial interest in. Again, this requires mayors, chairs, councillors, and members to voluntarily disclose their interests and stand aside from votes upon matters for which themselves, they feel, are compromised. This bill will rectify that. It will remove inconsistency in the approaches taken by councils by having a bottom line that captures the pecuniary interests of all local elected members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ETurning now to the specifics of the bill: firstly, a \u201Cpecuniary interest\u201D will be defined specifically as \u201Ca matter or activity of financial benefit to the member\u201D. A new section 42C in clause 4 outlines a number of interests relating to the member\u2019s position. They will be required to disclose the name of each company within which the member is either a director or holds or controls more than 5 percent of the voting rights, along with a description of the main business activities of the company, to ensure that there is clarity and that they can be easily understood by members of the public. They\u2019ll be required to disclose any other company or business in which the member has a pecuniary interest; the details of each employer, if the member is in employment; the name of each trust in which the member has a beneficial interest; any interests in organisations that receive funding or apply for funding from the local authority. When councils are making decisions around funding opportunities, it\u2019s often very unclear as to the nature of relationships between those who are sitting around the table making those decisions and the group that is seeking funding. This requirement will avoid any doubt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThere is also a requirement around any organisational positions that a member holds by virtue of them being an elected member\u2014for example, with a council-controlled organisation such as a trust, or a council-controlled trading organisation such as an airport board\u2014along with any real property in which the member has a legal interest. A new section 42D of the Local Government Act in clause 4 of the bill relates to the interests regarding the member\u2019s activities around international travel and accommodation, gifts, and payments. This will introduce a requirement for members of a local authority to disclose information on international travel and accommodation, but also the purpose of the travel, where those costs have been either partially or fully met by another person. However, the bill does provide an exemption where the contribution comes directly from the member themselves or a member of their family. So the requirement to disclose those costs will only capture those contributions from outside the member\u2019s own family unit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis bill will also require any gifts that are received to be declared. The threshold will be an estimated market value of more than $500. It will include hospitality and donations, but will exclude donations for expenses incurred in an election campaign. And finally, there will also be a requirement to publicly disclose any payments for other activities that local members undertake outside of local government salaries or allowances that the council members receive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen looking at this bill, members may draw parallels with what is expected in their annual declaration to Parliament\u2019s registrar of pecuniary interests, but there are some differences, and if the bill does proceed to select committee, I welcome some scrutiny and feedback in those areas. I am sure that one, in particular, will be the period for which disclosures must be made. For members of Parliament, it relates to interests held as at 31 January each year. This bill proposes that the disclosure period for local government relate to a 12-month window. So I look forward to hearing views on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EUnder new section 42E in clause 4 of the bill, councils will also be required to appoint a registrar to compile and maintain the pecuniary interests register. However, it will not be the responsibility of the registrar to ensure that members file the returns. That will be the responsibility of each elected member, and rightly so, as this is consistent with the approach taken for members of this House. For someone who fails to comply with the requirement to file an annual return, upon conviction, they will be liable to a fine not exceeding $5,000. I have to say that in my discussions in my community and around the country, views on this particular point vary, with some calling for harsher penalties, including disqualification from office. The select committee may wish to consider submissions on this particular penalty provision. But given that the penalty provision, as it currently stands, includes a criminal conviction as a result of failing to fulfil legal obligations in their duties as an elected member, my tentative view is that that alone would be significant as a deterrent for a publicly elected official. It\u2019s also important to note that under a new section 42A in clause 4, the bill also introduces a requirement for the register to be made publicly available, which would be on an annual basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: in promoting this bill, I am not suggesting that there has been any wrongdoing, but I am suggesting that there is currently an anomaly with the level of disclosure and transparency expected of members of Parliament and the level of disclosure and transparency expected of those in local government. And I don\u2019t believe that there should be a difference. Electors deserve to know what could influence their representatives in the decisions they make, whether they be local councillors, regional chairs, deputy mayors, mayors, members of local boards, or members of Parliament. This bill provides another layer of transparency and will ensure the rules of open disclosure are consistently applied across all levels of government. I seek the support of this House for the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill in my name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2d19ca008284a67a44454b2e78b6a7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2d19ca008284a67a44454b2e78b6a7d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00225e51720d2fb44d9da1c73ac553a83456\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e51720d2fb44d9da1c73ac553a83456\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve got rid of my \u201Cnappy\u201D [face mask]. I\u2019d like to congratulate the member Tangi Utikere on the introduction of this bill, the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s interesting that the last two bills discussed in the House have actually been introduced by people who know what they\u2019re talking about, which isn\u2019t always the case with members\u2019 bills. So I congratulate both of them on that. The member who introduced this bill would certainly know what he was talking about with respect to local government, as he was a former deputy mayor of Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI, of course, am really filling in for Christopher Luxon, who leads our approach to this issue and has done the work behind it. So I\u2019m a fill-in, I suppose. Actually, I\u2019m quite liking the Auckland lockdown, because I\u2019ve had a few goes in the House since they\u2019ve been gone! It\u2019s given me a bit of a chance! I also have a bit of experience in this, having been a mayor for some time; so I do have a bit of experience in this area. The National Party does support this bill to select committee, at which stage we\u2019ll be able to closely scrutinise the submissions on it, because there are a number of issues\u2014and I will raise them in the course of this speech\u2014that we are, I guess, interested in and think may cause some concerns as the bill goes the process in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ELocal government is often criticised; however, in my experience of it, it contains many outstanding officials and many, many capable and very loyal local community people, who work extraordinarily hard, give up much time to serve on local councils, and get very little reward for it except for a bit of abuse often, and they\u2019re criticised for all sorts of things. One of the other things they\u2019re criticised for is the turnout at local elections, and local government members are often criticised for creating the result of the low turnout. I\u2019ve got to say that, in my view, the low turnout at local elections is, to a large extent, caused by the fact that the only people affected by local councils directly are ratepayers, because no one else gets the bill. And so, effectively, if you pay the bill, you\u2019re interested; if you don\u2019t pay the bill, you don\u2019t have an interest. And so, because a large number of our residents in a lot of our council areas are only indirectly affected by the activities of council, they\u2019re not going to take much interest. So I think we\u2019ve got some challenges with the way councils are set up and the way they\u2019re structured, and that doesn\u2019t help, in my view, to draw out voters at voting time. So that\u2019s a bit of an issue, I think, that\u2019s worth raising in the course of this bill, because I\u2019ll get to the point I want to raise about it, and that\u2019s the fact that there is much happening in local government at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThere are many good councils, and they do a lot of good work with little resource, and this building and the occupants of it over the last 20 years, in my experience, have lumped a whole lot of issues and work on local councils that have created a lot of costs for them, a lot of resource required, and increased costs significantly to them. We\u2019ve got to find new ways of funding local government and new ways of dealing with it, and I accept that this Government has got some activity going on at the moment in that respect, which I\u2019ll get on to in a moment, but the really interesting issue is that, however you look at this, there is only two sources of funding for everything in New Zealand: they\u2019re taxpayers and ratepayers, and, the rate this Government is going at, there are less of each of them every year. And so that\u2019s very challenging for us, because that means fewer people have got to pay the bill, and so that\u2019s one of the challenges local government has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk a bit about the future now, because this bill is one of many that will impact on the activities of local government and, in fact, impact on what\u2019s going on in local government at the moment, and this Government has a number of measures they are taking right now\u2014three waters being one of them\u2014that affect dramatically what might happen with local government in the future. And, also, the other issue that\u2019s going on is a potential review of local government and how that works. Local government, to some extent, reminds me of our farmers and fishers; they\u2019re under constant pressure. And this bill\u2014one could be forgiven for wondering if we\u2019ll have anyone standing for council in the future, because my personal concerns about this bill are that local people who have to expose themselves financially for all and sundry to see for $20k a year are not going to be particularly interested in standing for council, and I think it\u2019s going to put a lot of people off being interested in local politics, simply because the rewards are so little and the challenges are so great. And, also, the fact that you\u2019re exposing yourself completely\u2014as we do in Parliament, and I\u2019ll get to that in a minute\u2014is quite a challenge, and I think it will be a real challenge for the future of local government and who might put themselves forward for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EComparing this to Parliament\u2014local government to Parliament\u2014is drawing a long bow, because we as ordinary MPs are paid more than almost every mayor in New Zealand, and certainly more than almost every councillor in New Zealand, and the other opportunity we have, of course, as MPs is there\u2019s a fair chance you\u2019re going to become a Minister, who\u2019s then paid more than any mayor in New Zealand and making decisions that have dramatic effects on the future of everyone in this country and on all sorts of areas, whereas local government is pretty much confined to certain areas, and certainly confined locally. So I think there\u2019s a very big difference between the responsibilities that local councillors and mayors have, or particularly local councillors have, and the people who occupy this building. And it\u2019s interesting to note\u2014and I\u2019ll get on to the penalties in a minute, because Tangi Utikere talked about the penalties\u2014that three of our members of Parliament couldn\u2019t get their returns in on time. You\u2019d wonder how that would happen, really, because that can\u2019t be that difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, Tangi Utikere talked about the penalties involved in this bill, and I\u2019ve got some, I guess, doubts about the penalty as well, and that a $5,000 fine\u2014if you\u2019re really into rorting your local community, a $5,000 fine is not going to stop you rorting your local community\u2014and so I think that the penalties are an interesting issue and it will be one that, no doubt, will be very interestingly discussed when we get to the select committee. I think that penalty\u2014I mean, obviously, it will be enforceable, because it will be an Act of Parliament, but it will, again, I think, put people off really wanting to become part of local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s one other thing in this bill that I think is quite challenging for us as well, and it\u2019s very different again to what happens in Parliament. The member has modelled the bill on the parliamentary pecuniary interests register to some extent, and another challenge I can see facing the select committee will be in 42C(1)(c), which reads: \u201Cif the member of a local authority is employed, the name of each employer of the member and a description of the main business activities of each of those employers [must be declared]\u201D. Now, if you think about the piece of legislation that the Government is proposing to put into Parliament\u2014and they\u2019ve said they\u2019ll put it into Parliament some time later this year\u2014around a piece of labour law, I guess, it would be, it\u2019s highly likely that contractors will become employers. And do you think that a courier driver, for example, who has maybe 150 employees is going to want to stick his client list out there in the public forum, on a council pecuniary register? Not likely. So I think it\u2019s going to put a whole lot of people off standing for council for that reason as well, and I think it could apply to accountants, lawyers, or anyone like that, because it\u2019s not defined in the bill. And I think there\u2019s some work to be done on clause 42C(1) as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s, in my view, fine for MPs who are full-time to be subject to pecuniary interests registers and made public, and I think Tangi Utikere himself talked about the Palmerston North City Council one, which, to the best of my knowledge, is not made public\u2014and probably a very good model, actually\u2014and I\u2019m sure there are plenty of other councils who have varying forms of pecuniary interests declarations. The Mayor of Tararua felt that her council dealt completely adequately with it, and I\u2019m pretty sure her councillors would be paid less than $20,000 each a year to be councillors. So I can\u2019t imagine them being that keen on declaring their body and souls to stand for the council if this piece of legislation goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think that there are some challenges in the bill. As I said, we support it to the select committee, and it will be very interesting to see where it gets to. So we have some reservations, but we will support it, and I\u2019d just like to again congratulate, or commiserate with, the member on getting his bill through to the select committee, and we\u2019ll see how it goes from there. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u002272383dad7f76407f9e46aab6b486db27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272383dad7f76407f9e46aab6b486db27\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m going to break the I-worked-in-local-government party that\u2019s going on here. I\u2019ve never worked in local government, and I acknowledge the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, in his time as mayor, I acknowledge the speaker before him, Tangi Utikere, in his time as the deputy mayor. But despite not being somebody that\u2019s been elected at local government level, I\u2019ve still got an opinion on this. I do believe this isn\u2019t about central government saying to ratepayers, \u201CYou\u2019re being rorted by your local member\u2014your local elected officials\u2014and we need to see a whole lot more transparency.\u201D What this is trying to do is actually just create some consistency across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that councils have their own checks and balances; we\u2019ve got to admit that. Most councils have got a way that they start the meetings; there\u2019s often a conflict of interest form that they need to fill out\u2014but that\u2019s part of the problem, everybody does it in their own little way. Actually, we believe that there should be a lot more transparency in that process, and a lot more consistency to that process as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe previous member said that it might put people off actually standing for local government. To that, I say: I don\u2019t think so. People that go into becoming elected officials on behalf of their community generally know what they\u2019re going into. Obviously, the bigger the city, the more political this becomes; in smaller, more regional councils, sometimes it can be quite different. But I don\u2019t believe it will put people off. I think that people that know that they\u2019re going to be standing for elected positions, they know that there\u2019s a job to do. They know that there\u2019s certain things that they have to fill out, and, actually, a pecuniary interest form is just one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll encourage all of those people that are sitting at home right now and have no idea what a pecuniary interest form is\u2014like me, a few years ago\u2014go online and have a look. You\u2019ll be able to see what all of us, as members of Parliament\u2014you\u2019ll be able to see how many houses\u2014one\u2014you might have; or how many trusts you might be involved in; businesses that you own. I think that\u2019s really essential for transparency, for people\u2014for ratepayers, for taxpayers alike\u2014to be able to understand actually who your elected officials are and what interests they have. The more upfront and honest you can be, the more that you restore the faith of democracy across the country. For that reason, this bill is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to thank my colleague Tangi Utikere for bringing this forward. I\u2019m very jealous\u2014I\u2019m seething on the inside\u2014because I\u2019ve been here a few years longer than him and I\u2019ve never had a bill pulled out. I\u2019ve been waiting so long\u2014so long, Tangi\u2014but tonight is your night. I\u2019m still very jealous. But, also, it just goes to show that when we come into this House, we come in with our prior experience. Tangi, with his work at local government in the good old city of Palmerston North, he saw a gap in consistency; he saw that here in the Chamber, us as members of Parliament, we have a very high bar with the pecuniary interests form, and he noticed that, actually, local governments do it a lot more ad hoc. So, Tangi, thank you for bringing this to our House. Many people would have thought that this already existed across the country; they would have thought that this was just standard procedure. It will be a shock for many to know that it\u2019s not standard procedure, that there are differing ways that councils handle this. Through this bill, we\u2019re looking to, as I say, bring a lot more transparency and a lot more consistency in, as part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo I am in full support of this bill. I think that this will do a lot for New Zealanders to understand more who their elected officials are, what their interests are, what they have to gain from various entities that they might be associated with, and, of course, ultimately, how sometimes that might affect their decision making. I think it\u2019s good for transparency, it\u2019s good for democracy, and for that reason I support it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b61dcd0bd3c646dba4bc7a71c4734c3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b61dcd0bd3c646dba4bc7a71c4734c3a\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, thank you. I\u2019m very pleased to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill and congratulate Tangi Utikere\u2014having been in this Parliament for nearly 10 years and never having had a member\u2019s bill pulled from the ballot, the luck of the biscuit tin definitely was with him in getting it pulled within the first 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is a very worthwhile bill and it was really interesting in terms of just preparing to speak, having been an elected regional councillor of Environment Canterbury from 2007 till 2010, when the Hon Nick Smith and Rodney Hide summarily removed elected councillors and replaced us with commissioners, I think we did fill in a conflict of interest declaration then, but going through and looking at what other declarations councils had\u2014the Christchurch City Council, for example, has quite a comprehensive pecuniary interest declaration that seems to be modelled very much on the one that parliamentarians fill in, whereas Environment Canterbury has a much more circumscribed one, and Nelson City Council has quite a good one as well. So I think that reinforces the point that the member made that the provisions across the country are not consistent and that this bill, therefore, will provide that consistency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI think, back in the 1990s, there was quite a focus on increasing the transparency of council decision-making, efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability. Legislation then\u2014the Local Electoral Act 2001, the Local Government Act 2002, and the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002\u2014did provide councils with more flexible tools, and the Local Government Act also requires, in section 14, that councils conduct their business in a clear, transparent, and democratically accountable way. The legislation means that all councils have to adopt a code of conduct setting out how elected members behave towards each other, towards staff, and how they use the information available to them as elected members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, certainly, councils do have codes of conduct, and then some of them have gone further in terms of pecuniary interests. So this bill is adding that extra layer of transparency. And also, I guess, there is the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act 1968, and that ensures that members are not affected by personal motives when they participate in council decisions, and it prohibits members from being involved in a council decision if they have a pecuniary interest other than one that they hold in common with the public generally, or unless they have actually sought and obtained an exemption or a declaration from the Office of the Auditor-General. That highlighting one thing, but what this register will do is make it much more obvious\u2014the range of pecuniary interests that councillors will have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ELike other members, I think the submissions to the select committee\u2014if it gets that far, and I hope it will\u2014will be quite interesting, because the point Tangi Utikere made was: what period should the declaration cover? I think there may be some concern if it is going to cover a whole year or whether it is done as MPs do it: the interest that we have registered on 31 January each year, a snapshot in time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other issues is the fact that central government has put a lot more responsibilities on local councils and then not provided the funding to enable them to carry that out. I think that is a big conversation that needs to be had, particularly around things like three waters. Collating the declarations that councillors make for, say, 14 or so councillors may not require a lot of staff time and expertise, but, as Sir Maarten Wevers, who performs that role at Parliament\u2014(a) he\u2019s independent; (b) he said in his report this year that being a new Parliament, there were a lot more requests for advice that went to him. So I think there does need to be some thought as to who needs to be responsible for the collation: is it the council or is that managed nationally, and does central government help fund it to protect the independence of that person, as we have with the registrar here, Sir Maarten Wevers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EMost councils, where they\u2019ve got a register, do have them on their websites, though they are sometimes quite difficult to find. But that may be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a9afc936d044b6ab51cf6a23c8f5b5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002299f59739c77345fcb093ebc02a76387e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299f59739c77345fcb093ebc02a76387e\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you for allowing me to take a call this evening on the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill. To my colleague Tangi Utikere, MP for Palmerston North\u2014now, I know this might not be interesting to many people, but I am the MP for New Plymouth, which is not Palmerston North, and quite regularly people get that mixed up and confused. But I\u2019m OK because I have a charming colleague in my midst, so if they confuse me for the MP for Palmerston North, I\u2019m quite happy with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I will just continue, I guess, the narrative this evening with our speakers. I know that my colleague T\u0101mati Coffey brought it up, but we\u2019ve had a mayor speak, we\u2019ve had a deputy mayor speak, we\u2019ve had now a regional councillor speak, and I\u2019m not sure if I want to bring it up, but I\u2019m probably not qualified\u2014I\u2019m not sure if my party knows this, but I\u2019m actually a failed district councillor. Well, I\u2019m actually a failed district councillor candidate, should I say\u2014let\u2019s get that right! I ran a really bad campaign. I had a busy life, I had a busy, busy home, and my $15 advertising budget failed miserably, but I hit the middle of the pack. This was 10, 12 years ago, when I was far younger, slimmer, less grey, more hair, all that kind of waffle. So I was committed to running for Labour last year, and so I ran. In fact, I didn\u2019t work all of last year as I ran for the Labour Party in New Plymouth, and I was successful by a number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAnyway, back to the bill\u2014back to the bill. Let us focus right now. So I\u2019m really pleased that this better aligns councils with us here as members of the House and of the executive here in Wellington, and, as my colleague, Mr Utikere talked about, it\u2019s around that transparency. He talked about ratepayers deserving to know what could influence their representatives and that this provides another layer of transparency, which is what I often hear, and, I\u2019m sure, we all hear talked about. I was more than happy in my first term here to declare all of my property and all the other things, which is very little, that I have. And I see that in our local government that it\u2019s the same thing and it\u2019s a great opportunity and a simple piece of legislation to correct that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, as the MP for New Plymouth, sometimes, I think, maybe you could have a broader name to take and encompass the beautiful North Taranaki that stretches from Waitara in the north down to \u014Cpunake towards the south.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f7ca745751451982037879a969b8bc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Good spot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf4574576bb4c9c9d52d6fae71b7ad8\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a great spot on the West Coast, Mr Speaker\u2014I know you know it well. I have two councils within my electorate: I have the South Taranaki District Council and I have the New Plymouth District Council. Now, I did some research into that and they both actually have implemented a register of declaration of interests. Now, South Taranaki, from what I read, it\u2019s basically held on site. It\u2019s something that\u2019s there that just needs to be declared each year. And for the New Plymouth District Council, they only brought it into play this year. So this is the first time they had a declaration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo I looked it up and I was quite curious to know who I voted for, who I didn\u2019t vote for, and what their interests were or are. Four of them didn\u2019t actually declare anything at all, and, obviously, with this piece of legislation, that\u2019ll ensure that everyone does. But there were people who were part of the Taranaki Electricity Trust; the Waitara District Services and Citizens Club; Full Circle Bespoke Life Events\u2014that\u2019s like a celebrant, just so you know; of course, our wonderful New Plymouth Operatic Society; our Taranaki Chamber of Commerce; as well as people who are residential property owners, they were lifestyle block property owners; and our deputy mayor is the director\u2014I just looked it up\u2014of Fun Ho! Toys. Now, who doesn\u2019t know Fun ho! Toys? Oh, geez. OK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a259f68f671b451cafe1dcf16289af9f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208a695fbd78045cf92fd6a7bfa69784f\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Fun Ho! Toys is Inglewood\u2019s, which is a fabulous\u2014it was the sort of 1930s, 40s, and 50s when it was huge, those metal toys\u2014everyone had a Fun Ho! toy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2591eb7b5e412797ecc3567d2449ff\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not why we remember Inglewood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022611e0459269b429fbca03f6dc15c6b6c\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Right, OK, let\u2019s move on quickly, thank you, Mr O\u2019Connor; I won\u2019t go into that! Anyway, I support this piece of legislation, and I\u2019m really proud of my colleague Tangi Utikere, who came into Parliament with me. I support this and I look forward to seeing how it goes at select committee. I commend this to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00221dd62f88e2224120840db8f53eb9f305\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dd62f88e2224120840db8f53eb9f305\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to speak on the Local Government (Pecuniary Interest Register) Amendment Bill, and I also congratulate the member Tangi Utikere for the introduction of this bill. I\u2019m speaking on behalf of our local government spokesperson, Simon Court, who\u2019s also stuck in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to introduce requirements for members of local authorities to declare pecuniary interests to align themselves with the requirements of members of Parliament. However, there are already rules under the Local Government Act which require a declaration of a conflict of interest in particular decision-making. A number of other things will need to be sorted out through the select committee process. The bill adds to this and, in effect, makes it stricter for them than for members of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EIt makes sense that elected officials\u2014people chosen by the public and paid by the public\u2014are accountable to the public. The public need to trust that the people who are representing them are honest and are working in their best interests. They need to be transparent and accountable. Unfortunately, these qualities are becoming increasingly rare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to address conflicts of interest that local government elected members may have and currently don\u2019t have to disclose. This is important when decisions need to be made about awarding contracts, approving or declining planning permissions\u2014buying Christmas lights from China, for example\u2014or all-expenses-paid trips to conferences and sister city meetings in Third World countries or Denmark. They work for the public and not their own agendas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill will require members of local authorities to disclose gifts and payments which others might see as having an influence on their decision making. Formalising this process makes things more professional and allows voters and contractors and watchdogs to rest easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThere are, of course, possible unintended consequences, some of which have been mentioned. Knowing the make-up of many councils, there is the real danger that those community-minded, hard-working people who may own small businesses or be farmers or, heaven forbid, be successful could well be put off putting themselves up as a candidate, knowing the potential for a pile-on by the woke activist councillors that pervade many councils\u2014or maybe these are intended consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill\u2019s purpose is to improve transparency and strengthen public trust and confidence in decision making of local authorities. This is a noble aim that every New Zealander would unanimously support, and I think it\u2019s important to remind ourselves of what transparency means. I\u2019ll quote: \u201CTransparency ensures that information is available that can be used to measure the authorities\u2019 performance and to guard against any possible misuse of powers.\u201D Where activities are done in an open way without secrets, so people can trust that they be fair and honest, \u201CIn that sense, transparency serves to achieve accountability, which means that authorities can be held responsible for their actions.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EAs I said before, ACT has some reservations about this bill, and we will support it to the select committee. But I must note the irony of the demand for transparency and accountability from the least transparent Government in New Zealand\u2019s history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00227109e7db40374912a41ef4d105059509\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227109e7db40374912a41ef4d105059509\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Thank you for giving me the call on this bill\u2014an excellent bill, and I am sure it\u2019s going to get a good working over in select committee, because it\u2019s a very simple precept. The premise is very simple, that we want people who are making important decisions to be transparent about their interests so that they can be scrutinised in terms of the motivations they may bring to the decisions that they make. I do think that it is time for a good look at conflicts of interest at local body, and I know the Auditor-General did have guidance that, in fact, he withdrew from his website because it was a little outdated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut one of the real problems is that there seems to be a lack of clarity around when people can bring their own strong personal views to a decision-making process\u2014that is to say, a political point of view\u2014and when that crosses over to being a personal interest where their own financial or other position will be affected by that decision. Certainly, there are places where a strong view is not appropriate in local bodies, and, certainly, hearing panels is one of them, where it\u2019s a quasi-judicial decision-making process, but when it\u2019s just round the council table, political views are grist to the mill. I\u2019m a bit perplexed to hear that people think that being transparent and honest about the influences on your decision making might be a disincentive to standing for council. I must say, if people want to conceal what financial interests they have which might affect their decisions, then I\u2019d be pretty happy for them not to be standing for local body politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is a great bill, and I haven\u2019t yet congratulated Mr Utikere for this\u2014and I think it\u2019s kind of weird to do so, to congratulate someone with having a number randomly pulled from a biscuit tin, but, anyway, good on you, mate. Well done for getting a number randomly pulled from a biscuit tin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI note that the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act actually sets out what a \u201Clocal authority\u201D is in a somewhat dated way now\u2014talks about drainage boards and all sorts of things. It may be that a definition section will be needed here, because, for example, the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act actually identifies community boards as local authorities, and I\u2019m not sure that they\u2019re intended to be captured here. And, of course, we\u2019ve got territorial authorities and local authorities and whether it crosses\u2014I imagine it\u2019s intended to capture both, but that may be a useful clarification in terms of regional councils, territorial authorities, unitary authorities, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, look, I absolutely welcome the scrutiny that this is going to get. Certainly, in my own local authority, there are councillors around the table who have significant business interests who may indeed be contracting through an attenuated series of companies and business interests with council. And, certainly, there\u2019s a real need for transparency there so that any suggestion that one day they can be communicating as business owner with council officials, and the next day they can be communicating with those same officials as an elected member, is really problematic. I think a spotlight can rightly be drawn and thrown on that kind of conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI also think, in terms of the proposed new section 42C, there\u2019s some thinking to be done about how far down the road you go. Obviously, there are things like managed funds where you may have interests but they\u2019re not active interests\u2014they\u2019re not actively managed or purchased or sold by you, but, nevertheless, you do have an interest in companies or properties. But perhaps you don\u2019t need to go into that level of detail. Certainly, the members\u2019 pecuniary interest register makes some distinctions there. Obviously, the travel there: \u201Cfamily member\u201D might need some definition, because, obviously, if a husband or mum or dad or wife purchases travel, that\u2019s one thing. We need to make sure that captures all domestic relationships, whether that be what we might\u2019ve once called a de facto partner\u2014just make sure we don\u2019t spread the net too narrowly there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, look, I think this will be a really good and interesting select committee discussion. I do hope there are lots of submissions on it. I do also think that we\u2019ve got to be cautious about smaller councils here as well. Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014I see my time\u2019s expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002252ed8df1bdc341ae98aefe3f86d58018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252ed8df1bdc341ae98aefe3f86d58018\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E It behoves us all to understand the history of New Zealand and see the part that vested interests played right from the start. I\u2019m just reading a book about John McKenzie, or Jock McKenzie, and his land reforms. New Zealanders should understand that this country was the land that\u2014other than the land that was left to M\u0101ori, the land that had been taken was owned by very, very few families in New Zealand, and those very few families, basically, wielded all the power. So anyone who wants to understand why vested interests should be controlled, I thoroughly suggest a read of that history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI grew up on the northern part of the Buller, and as we waited for a school bus we used to see the Denniston incline working. Denniston incline, a magnificent feat of engineering, described as the eighth wonder of the world at one stage. It was shut. Not long afterward, the contract for delivering the coal down the hill by road was delivered by a local contractor who had been on the council, and the miners and staff were bused down the hill by a local bus contractor. Now, it probably was nothing untoward, and I certainly wouldn\u2019t make any accusation to those, but it was certainly something that we grew up with wondering, shall we say. So it is always good to know those that are making the decisions and what may be motivating them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, I did hear the speech by Mr McKelvie, and, like all speeches by Mr McKelvie in this House, they are well worth listening to, generally built on some good experience. I certainly did note his concern that we need to be very careful that we don\u2019t narrow, inadvertently, the number of people who not only will be prepared to stand for council but are actually eligible to stand for council. I\u2019m sure that bill\u2014and, again, I congratulate my colleague Mr Utikere for drawing this bill, I\u2019m sure that\u2019s something that we can fix at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBecause the other thing that we\u2019ve talked about before\u2014most speakers have talked as though councillors are the people that make the significant decisions around councils. Well, we all know that that\u2019s actually not true. I know one mayor who there was a major development taking place three doors from his place that he had no awareness of at all because decisions like that don\u2019t go through, as we know\u2014those day-to-day decisions generally don\u2019t go through the councils. So there are a lot more people who are making decisions that affect us on a day-to-day basis around councils other than these councillors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, going back to my original point around understanding vested interest, I think we do live in a different age, and we welcomed John McKenzie\u2019s land reforms, which meant that we did, in New Zealand, end up with a very entrepreneurial\u2014a lot more land was purchased. Well, the compulsory purchase of the land meant that we did break up those estates and made New Zealand the land that it is today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut going back to the bill, it is certainly important that on any decision\u2014and any organisation I work for or have been a part of, any board I\u2019ve been on, the interest register has always been an important part of it. I think there wouldn\u2019t be anyone here who hasn\u2019t sat on a board that wouldn\u2019t know that the interest register is an important part of what they do. So the underlying point of this bill, the underlying desire or the strategy of this bill, is to ensure that those who are making the broader decisions that will filter down to the actual paid individuals, the paid officials, who will actually implement them, that we do understand that, because I\u2019m sure those of us who have grown up, particularly, probably, more in the rural areas, have understood that rarely on a council was there not a major landholder who, often, was attracted to the board because of decisions they felt were impacting on them personally. Wasn\u2019t to say that they weren\u2019t there for the right reasons, wasn\u2019t to say they didn\u2019t end up very good. In fact, there was some research done that showed the reasons why people actually do go into politics in the first place, and, generally, one of the main reasons is an interest in politics, is one of the things. The other thing is actually a desire to get things done; fairly obvious. But in that research, it also showed the people that don\u2019t go into politics are ones that are part of a group who are generally excluded from politics. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228deaa00a4ad24741991e32b6b5bdb16b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228deaa00a4ad24741991e32b6b5bdb16b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225ba5fc9311c9467485662ae505fef043\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ba5fc9311c9467485662ae505fef043\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I stand, too, to speak to the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill. I\u2019ll start by quoting part of the pledge, I guess, that MPs actually sign up to with their pecuniary interest. It says in there that \u201Cit is central to the democratic idea that the purpose of elected public office is to serve the public, not to enrich the office-holder\u201D. And I can assure you that in the local government world\u2014and I think my colleagues who have been in local government will attest to this\u2014those who put their hand up to be elected on to small local councils do not do so to be enriched; in fact, it is usually a matter of social service. Very different from regional councils and from cities, their salaries are quite a lot different, but, certainly, in those small councils, it is a matter of public service only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that has always been evolving in local government, from my experience there, was that you want to attract self-employed people, you want to attract successful business people, because they bring a certain set of skills; even retirees\u2014and they usually do have quite a portfolio of assets and interests. And it will, as I think my colleague Ian McKelvie pointed out, be a barrier to people to want to disclose everything about themselves. When I look at the bill and I look at the contents of a pecuniary interest return, it says, \u201Crelating to member\u2019s position\u201D, and I think this is work that the select committee is going to have to turn its mind to because how do you define \u201Crelating\u201D? So is that a business in the district, the city, or the region that the local authority is responsible for? Is it a business that might, that does, or that could be a supplier or have some business interest in a council CCO\u2014a council-controlled organisation? So I think defining that is going to be very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut, also, in there, it talks to \u201Crelating to member\u2019s activities\u201D\u2014\u201Cpecuniary interest return relating to member\u2019s activities\u201D. But that\u2019s got to also be defined because \u201Crelating to activities\u201D in carrying out their role, perhaps, but not in the broader sense of that person\u2019s private enterprise or their interests outside of the council. So I think we\u2019ve got to be really careful that we don\u2019t capture everything that\u2019s going on in a person\u2019s life or business. And I\u2019ll give you some examples: \u201Ca description of each gift (including hospitality and donations in cash or kind\u201D, so the cash that may pass over\u2014and I don\u2019t know of anyone that actually gets cash passed across their palm, but you don\u2019t want things like grandma\u2019s birthday present or even grandma\u2019s bequeath to you to be liable for a pecuniary interests register. Also, things that happen in small communities\u2014so it\u2019s a really good example right now: it\u2019s whitebait season. Most people in small council areas know each other. What happens if someone gives you a feed of whitebait or half a side of mutton? You know, that sort of stuff happens a lot in rural communities. So is that going to be classed as \u201Cin kind\u201D contributions and donations, or is that just something that happens in rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a bit that needs to happen in defining some of this work in here. I do agree that there needs to be some consistency, but I don\u2019t know whether the Government has even turned its mind to working with Local Government New Zealand and asking them to provide that consistency across councils across New Zealand, because there can be templates created. All this does is like Big Brother coming in over the top and saying, \u201CThis is how we want you to do it. Don\u2019t work out your own system.\u201D Perhaps this is going to be another one of those nails in the coffin for local government, because what\u2019s going to happen\u2014in the policy statement it says, \u201Ccontribute to more robust decision-making by local authorities.\u201D Well, actually, there\u2019s not much decision making going to be left for local authorities by the time this Government\u2019s finished with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00225743bcf3ddd84ec88760b12cbd938591\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225743bcf3ddd84ec88760b12cbd938591\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased that Mr McKelvie outlined National\u2019s position on the bill, because if we listened on to that speech, you\u2019d think that they\u2019d be voting against it. But they\u2019re not. They\u2019re voting for it to go to select committee, because they want this bill to go through, admittedly with some improvements, but we\u2019ve said no different. We\u2019ve identified that there\u2019s some areas that we would like the select committee to look into, but we\u2019re actually just focusing on the issue here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re being presented with is an alternative. It\u2019s that if we bring in a requirement that people that are elected to public office have to declare the interests that they have, that\u2019s going to stop some people from going into local government. I would ask \u201Cwhy?\u201D Why would publicly declaring your conflicts stop you from standing for public office? If you were that way inclined, I think your answer is staring you in the face. I would take issue with the point that was made by the previous speaker, Maureen Pugh, on this bill. Yes, we do want people with business experience. Yes, we do want successful people. But we want people from across society representing our communities in local government. We don\u2019t just want business people, just like we don\u2019t just want retired people or we don\u2019t just want men. We want a cross-section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn my electorate, there are five district councils, and I note that there are six in Mr McKelvie\u2019s council, which are considerably more, I think, than most of the other electorate MPs that have spoken to this tonight. Every single one of those councils are full of people with integrity that are committed to their communities: South Wairarapa, Carterton, Masterton, the Tararua District, and Central Hawke\u2019s Bay. I note that they each have a different way of declaring potential conflicts. Some do it before a meeting. Some register it before they meet\u2014etc., etc. I think that\u2019s the key element there, though: it\u2019s the inconsistency. Ultimately, if the argument is, as has been said, that many councils already have something in place, wouldn\u2019t it be therefore true that these councillors, the ones that we\u2019re being told won\u2019t stand for council, have to declare it through the nature of their business anyway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just put that to the side and stop pretending that this is a major issue. Because people are committed to their communities, they will stand for council, and if they stand for council knowing that if they discuss something that\u2019s relevant to their interests they have to declare it, then let\u2019s make it consistent across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d64ae7192e740e3b26ab0db3f840d17\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s going to be nothing left for them to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9f992b2e7348d982eb5aca7ffdd818\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Maureen Pugh, perhaps you might want to put your mask on. Perhaps you could book your vaccination at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo the thing with this is that it is, essentially, asking local government elected officials to do exactly the same as what members of Parliament are doing. I don\u2019t accept the argument that\u2019s been put forward that, yes, this is a full-time job, and some local body representatives are full-time representatives, and that there is a difference between city and rural elected representatives. I note that Tracey Collis, the Mayor of the Tararua District, a woman who I respect immensely and have a very good working relationship with, disagrees. She believes that the system is in place at the moment, but I know for a fact that the Tararua District Council probably does lead the way in ensuring that their members do declare interests before they go. But, I think, it\u2019s also fair to say that some councils probably do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just make it consistent. Let\u2019s vote for this bill, send it to select committee, and nut it out. We\u2019ll get submissions from people across the board. We\u2019ll get submissions from those involved in local government. Given that this is a member\u2019s bill, this is not a Government bill, so there hasn\u2019t been any consultation prior to this. Here\u2019s their opportunity to come forward and put their view. We\u2019ll also get representatives from residents\u2019 groups, I\u2019m sure, that want to know that the people that they\u2019ve elected to their local council will have declared any potential conflict and that it\u2019s out there in the open. It will be along the lines of the one that exists for members of Parliament, I\u2019m sure. It doesn\u2019t tell you to declare the exact amount that\u2019s in your savings account; it just declares that you\u2019ve got a savings account with an amount in there that\u2019s over a certain limit. That\u2019s all\u2014that\u2019s all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMine is very easy to declare. I don\u2019t own a home. I was on The Golden Shears board; I\u2019m no longer. I was on the Wings Over Wairarapa board; I\u2019m no longer. But when I was on those, I declared them, because there was a chance that they might ask the Government for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233091d16bcb4496095ad429b96411ec9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Did you declare the ute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b246f331955a4c7fb1ba4680882b69d1\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not worth over 500 bucks. So I congratulate Tangi Utikere for getting this bill pulled. I wish him all the best, and I hope to see this improved and passed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb8eb651a9f840c79eb08b67e2fd8317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb8eb651a9f840c79eb08b67e2fd8317\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you. Can I, firstly, acknowledge the contributions from right around the House, and the support that at this stage appears to be provided for this bill. I do want to thank Mr McAnulty for reminding the House that this is a member\u2019s bill in my name\u2014it\u2019s not a Government bill\u2014and so those that have made some comments may want to just, perhaps, reflect on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do want to just very briefly reflect on the biscuit tin, actually, because it seems to me that you do need to have either an element of luck or beginner\u2019s choice, perhaps. But I know that, actually, in terms of the class of 2020 on this side of the House, the three members\u2019 bills from those members are for the MP for \u014Ctaki, the MP for Whanganui, and now the MP for Palmerston North. So the DEKA biscuit tin might have a regional bias, perhaps, on it\u2014who knows? Mr Bennett, MP for New Plymouth, might be up next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut, look, I do want to thank members for their contributions. Mr McKelvie, my parliamentary neighbour, can I thank you for your contributions. Actually, Mr McKelvie and I served as local representatives together when he was the Mayor of Manawat\u016B District and I was a new city councillor for Palmerston North. I do know that he did ask about whether or not the interests or the declaration that I made for Palmerston North City Council was public or not. I can confirm that it says here, \u201CThe declaration will be made available for public inspection at any time.\u201D So he suggests that maybe Palmy city council is leading the way. Clearly, the information that they require is well and above what other councils, perhaps, are seeking. I expect to hear from members of our community, members from within the local government sector, members from outside of the local government sector, through the select committee process, and I expect that because we are talking about communities of interest up and down the country that will want to have, no doubt, an opportunity to express their views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to thank Dr Webb for his contribution this evening. He actually reminded me about this dichotomy between personal views around a local government table and, also, the interests that a member might have. It reminded me, actually, around some of the comments that have been provided by the Auditor-General in some of those reports to the Governance and Administration Committee, which deals with a number of public-facing reports for the local government sector. Actually, Mr McKelvie, I need to congratulate the member on becoming the chair of that select committee, which I\u2019m no longer a member of, but clearly he will get amongst it in terms of these submissions. There was concern expressed in the Auditor-General\u2019s report around making available some information that\u2019s publicly available, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do want to touch briefly on the role of the registrar, because the Hon Eugenie Sage, in her contribution this evening, touched on the desire for this not to be an additional administrative burden. That certainly is not the intention. The bill as it\u2019s currently drafted specifies that that person may be the chief executive of a local authority, and it\u2019s drafted in that way because those from the sector will know that more often than not it\u2019s the chief executive who delegates that role, or a number of roles\u2014well, actually, all roles, effectively\u2014to officers of the authority. I do take the point, though, that perhaps, through the select committee process, there can be a conversation and some advice and feedback around what that might look like. But it\u2019s really, really clear to me\u2014and I want to confirm this point for the benefit of the House\u2014it is not the responsibility of the registrar to do anything except, effectively, administratively receive it and make the information available. The bill as it\u2019s currently drafted indicates that it is not the responsibility of the registrar to ensure or remind members of local authorities that they are required to submit. It is not their responsibility to double-check what is in their return. It is the responsibility of the elected member themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI accept that, through the select committee, there are opportunities to look at some of the definitions that are in the bill, including tidying up the reference\u2014when this was drafted, the Privacy Act was of a different numerical year, so that needs to be changed. But I am looking forward to the hard-working members of the Governance and Administration Committee progressing this, along with the community, and reporting back to the House. So, once again, I thank members for their contributions this evening and support for my member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296e9fa1a3f5945b5acee0888cb17cf1c\u0022\u003EFreedom Camping (Infringement Offences and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002215a8a369e0374cd5befeefadc0326526\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00222dc11311d2654a0db162b7f597a5b79f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dc11311d2654a0db162b7f597a5b79f\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Freedom Camping (Infringement Offences and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EFirstly, I\u2019m going to acknowledge the work of many councils around this country, the Tourism Industry Association, the rental companies, the New Zealand Motor Caravan Association, the Holiday Parks Association, the Department of Conservation, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA), and all of the other groups that I\u2019ve worked with over the years on the challenges and solutions to freedom camping rules. Now, it is a challenging topic, balancing the freedom to enjoy New Zealand and its pristine environment with the need to protect the environment that they\u2019ve come to visit. I would point out that I don\u2019t believe that this bill is going to be working against any of the work that is being done by the Government at the moment; in fact, I think it will complement the work that is being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, my journey with the Freedom Camping Act began back in my local government days, when the pressure was on some of our special sites around Westland that were being fouled by the actions of a few people who were camping without access to toilet facilities, and, every day, I would travel along State Highway 73 and State Highway 6. Also, living in a rural area, it became abundantly clear that the pressure on some of our pristine sites was going to destroy the very thing that our visitors came to see and enjoy, and that is clean, green New Zealand. So I sought the support of Community and Public Health, and they undertook to provide me with a report. After surveying every layby, every pull-off point, and every picnic area along the length of the State highways in Westland and at other significant points like at rivers and lakes\u2014and their work involved visiting every site during the off-peak season, noting what they saw there, and taking photographs\u2014they repeated that exercise during the peak tourist season, and the bottom line revealed what most of us expected, which was there was a human health issue that needed to be resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, this evidence led me to promoting the need for legislation that would give councils authority to control freedom camping in their districts and cities. So I took a remit to the local government AGM, where it was supported. Along with that was the prospect of the 2011 Rugby World Cup being hosted here in New Zealand and the anticipated influx of freedom campers that was being talked about quite a lot in those days. The then National-led Government adopted that concept, and the Freedom Camping Act 2011 was passed into law, sponsored by ACT\u2019s Rodney Hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, though, the Act omitted to include Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) land and NZTA land, so the State highways weren\u2019t captured in that legislation. Now, for places like the West Coast, where you\u2019ve got a ribbon of State highway that runs along the length of the region, this was a major omission, and even more so for Grey District and Buller, who share, according to the Lonely Planet, one of the top 10 highways in the world, along the Great Coast Road, and there are many other examples across New Zealand, such as State Highway 1, up the Kaik\u014Dura coastline. So this bill that we are talking to tonight inserts Crown-managed land, LINZ land, and NZTA land into the Freedom Camping Act, and that enables controls over the use of that land for freedom camping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, another issue with the original Act was the transfer of unpaid infringement fees to the rental vehicle company. This was an issue that was identified early on in the Freedom Camping Forum that I was a part of, and that was hosted by Geoff Ensor, when he was at the Tourism Industry Association. Now, there was initially a really good understanding that the rental vehicle company held the credit card details of anyone that did receive an infringement notice, but they often left the country without paying that. So the company could recover it, but the legislation had made it quite cumbersome to recover that fee but also, then, the rental vehicle company had to deal with their customers, they had to add on an admin fee for the recovery of that fee, and it wasn\u2019t particularly good for their reviews. So that system was not particularly fit for purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe original bill did give the ability for those companies to write into the rental agreement that they could add on some administration costs for recovery of those fees, but for the infringement offence for freedom camping, they had to, within five days, send a copy of the infringement notice off to the permanent address of that hirer. Now, if someone is touring around in a campervan, the chances are that they are not at their permanent address and not receiving mail. So this bill will address that process by authorising that a new infringement notice can be made out to the rental company, and the customer\u2019s original offence notice would be then revoked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, there is one issue that has been consistently raised within communities where freedom camping is more popular and that is an issue around the human waste, and that is the key focus of this particular bill. Now, there is a human health imperative in addressing freedom camping, and I suggest in this bill that non - self-contained vehicles must be parked within 200 metres of a toilet. Now, during submissions, I\u2019m very open to debating that distance and whether people deem it to be appropriate or even workable, but for vehicles that are fully self-contained, then this requirement does not apply. This bill also gives powers to enforcement officers to enter and inspect a vehicle to make sure that it is indeed fully self-contained. I\u2019m sure that most of us have heard stories of sleeper-van campers defending their self-containment status by saying that they have a bucket and a lid. This does not meet the standard and it does not meet community expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe other issues that arise with freedom campers is the loss of access by locals to their special places and not being able to, say, launch their boats at the river or parking area, get to their fishing spot, or even walk the dog or go for picnics because the area is crammed packed full of campervans and sleeper vans. Now, if those areas are devoid of any toilet facilities, what this bill will mean is that those non - self-contained vehicles will not be able to park there, and that will, in turn, ease the pressure. Now, the mess that is left behind is something that irks local communities, and the tolerance for constantly cleaning up after campers is all but exhausted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to take note of an issue that was raised with me several times during the development of the original work on the 2011 Freedom Camping Act, and that\u2019s the impact that it will have on families who want to enjoy our great outdoors with their family or their friends as part of a tenting holiday. These groups are not the target of this bill. We want Kiwis and visitors to be able to still continue to enjoy our back country experience. As we know, there is very little negative feedback received relating to this type of camper. They are the ones who traditionally leave only their footprints behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut with up to 250,000 people in 2019 who were spending part of their New Zealand holiday here freedom camping, we recognised that most of them do not cause any problems. However, when there is a human health issue that has been identified, it is, I believe, that we as a Parliament have a responsibility to respond and ensure that we include some of the most well-used freedom camping grounds and that we protect those pristine areas that people go to to camp. I believe that this bill does that by capturing LINZ land, Government-controlled land, and NZTA land, and it fills the gap that the original piece of legislation left. As a result, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00226986f53e47dd4fe2832d9519b0c0eb79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226986f53e47dd4fe2832d9519b0c0eb79\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00224706288cdcc442ef83b48d9fff09bc4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224706288cdcc442ef83b48d9fff09bc4d\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and, look, I would like to thank that member Maureen Pugh for supporting changes to a practice that I feel has very real potential to harm New Zealand\u2019s \u201Cclean, green\u201D \u201C100% Pure\u201D brand and is fast eroding or has already eroded tourism\u2019s social licence to operate in many of our towns and our cities in our tourist spots around our wonderful country. This is something that I have spoken on often, both as the Minister of Tourism and in the past in Opposition and in other ministerial portfolios. It\u2019s something I\u2019m very passionate about, our brand, and this is something that I think we can do to help maintain and enhance our brand as borders open. We need to make changes now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut the member must be very well aware\u2014she must have been aware\u2014that, as the Minister of Tourism, I am doing a lot of work around this area. She must have been aware when she put this bill into the ballot that discussion documents were out and it was very high on my work programme, as I have articulated right across the media many times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, her passion for this issue is commendable, and I thank her very much for supporting an issue that, as she knows, I am also very passionate about myself, and I\u2019m making an assumption here\u2014I hope I\u2019m right. I\u2019m making an assumption that the discussion document that we put out to a whole range of stakeholders on the change in freedom camping, the member submitted on\u2014and even though I couldn\u2019t find her submission, I\u2019m sure she did\u2014because what I did do was I put out a comprehensive public discussion document canvassing a number of issues on solutions on how we can deal with the problem that is freedom camping. We received a lot of feedback on proposed options for changing, and I\u2019ve taken all these into account when designing a regime that I will take for Cabinet approval. It is a well-set-out and heavily consulted on document, and I believe the proposals will make a difference in an area that I am very passionate about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ECan I give the House some stats: only 74 percent of freedom campers and budget vehicles or purchased vehicles have access to an on-board toilet. Of those 74 percent of freedom campers that did have a toilet, only 28 percent used it. So they either used facilities\u2014which this Government has significantly invested in, in partnership with local councils through the Tourism Infrastructure Fund\u2014or they\u2019ve gone outside. There is no reason for this, and the reason I say that is dotted all around our fantastic country, there are camping grounds and there are holiday parks, within easy drive of each other. There\u2019s a whole network of them. The vast majority are very cheap, they\u2019re accessible, and they have all the facilities that people need when they are travelling around our fantastic country on a budget holiday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis does contrast with the premium end of the market, which has fixed toilets. These are the big campervans we see traversing our highways. They do have fixed toilets, and over 74 percent of the people in that premium end of the market actually say that they use the facility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo whilst freedom camping is a wide area and has a very wide definition under the legislation, the area that we are really concerned about when we are looking at changing the law and really tightening it up are those vans that you see, and you see the little blue sticker on the back that says \u201Cself-contained\u201D, and you go, \u201CNo way\u2014that is not self-contained.\u201D They often just have a bucket, I\u2019m told, with some gladwrap over the top, and I\u2019m also told that sometimes if they return this with the gladwrap still there, they get their deposit back\u2014hardly an invitation to use the facilities and hardly self-contained, by anyone\u2019s definition. This is what we\u2019re looking to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn fact, I found out in the consultation that these are called sliders, and the reason they\u2019re called sliders is in the middle of the night, you can hear that door slide open as they go outside to go to the toilet, and you can hear it slide closed again. Like I said, that\u2019s hardly the sort of activity or the behaviour that we want to see right across our pristine country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ECertainly, when I went hard on this in the media upon becoming the Minister of Tourism, about 75 percent of the correspondence with my office was in favour of reform of this practice. It\u2019s one of the reasons why I\u2019ve gone very hard, and it is an issue that many Kiwis have a strong opinion on, because the last thing we want to see, if I\u2019m to be quite blunt, is toilet paper in rest areas, on the side of streams, and on our reserves, and it\u2019s one of the reasons where, only this week, the Napier City Council\u2014and I applaud them for this\u2014has banned freedom camping on the Westshore reserve, because there were too many instances of people defecating in this reserve, which is used by families and kids, and it\u2019s a fantastic tourist spot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe last thing we want is people using the Westshore reserve as a toilet, and no doubt those who are watching this have numerous examples of where they have been around this country and they\u2019ve seen toilet paper and defecating in our forests, for example. It is the last thing we want to see, and apart from a health risk, as the previous member outlined, it is just a really bad look and there\u2019s no reason for it. It\u2019s the reason why we\u2019re changing the rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe recognised that this was a major issue when, actually, we first came into Government in 2017. The previous Minister of Tourism, Kelvin Davis, in 2018, set up the Responsible Camping Working Group. It was a group of mayors and engaged stakeholders who provided a whole lot of information and feedback to the Minister on what he could do to implement changes around this freedom camping space, and, in fact, he put together a fund of about $25 million, which helped deal with the issues. I just felt, upon becoming the Minister of Tourism, we had to take things to the next stage. I felt that we needed a legislative solution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh, I won\u2019t be supporting your piece of legislation. That\u2019s not because I don\u2019t believe there needs to be change, but, as the Minister of Tourism, I am bringing my own legislation on this. I have to take it to Cabinet. It is very well thought through, it is heavily consulted on, and it deals with a lot of the issues. It deals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223610205daec41ed9fd7404e3fac0bf8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, just\u2014come on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde4875e9886440cb7904f7ff4118dbc\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CCome on.\u201D\u2014Mr Bishop, you know how this works. You\u2019ve got a member\u2019s bill, which is really good in principle, but I have consulted widely with all the stakeholders. It is very well thought through. I understand the issues because I\u2019ve been out to the people and I\u2019ve heard what they\u2019ve said, and I\u2019ve come up with solutions to what all the stakeholders are talking about. It\u2019s what we have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut what I can say\u2014and I actually heard Mr Woodhouse speak very clearly and articulately on this in a forum I was at, and I see Mr Todd McClay over there, as the Opposition spokesperson for tourism. So what I am expecting is that when I do bring a bill to the House, very, very soon after it goes to Cabinet, I will expect the full support from the House because this is an issue we all know needs sorting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo, Maureen Pugh, thank you very much for this, but my bill\u2014[Interruption]\u2014Todd McClay\u2014is a bill that actually deals with the issues that all the stakeholders, up and down this country, and not just the West Coast but including the West Coast, because I\u2019ve spoken all your mayors\u2014a fantastic group of people who have engaged widely, and I applaud them for that. I really enjoyed my time with your mayors, but they\u2019ve told me it\u2019s a really big issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo I won\u2019t be supporting this bill, but I support the philosophy and the premise behind it, and I fully expect Maureen Pugh, Todd McClay, Chris Bishop, and the National Opposition to support mine when I bring it to the House. Thank you very much. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00224bd5718565934441ac11fef5ca87e4fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bd5718565934441ac11fef5ca87e4fd\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to speak on the Freedom Camping (Infringement Offences and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and congratulate Maureen Pugh for having the bill pulled and also for the thought that has gone into it. It is a serious bill and it does try to fill some gaps in the 2011 Freedom Camping Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBack in 2011, around the time of the Rugby World Cup, the number of freedom campers was estimated to be in the tens of thousands. Now, as others have noted, it\u2019s more likely\u2014before COVID, before the lockdown\u2014to be in the vicinity of 250,000. That has brought significant problems, and I think one of the issues has been the way in which Aotearoa New Zealand has been advertised. These big motorhomes with blue sky, the wide expanse of the Mackenzie Basin\u2014this notion that these big motorhomes are free to pull up anywhere, and even the term \u201Cfreedom camping\u201D suggests that. So I prefer to use the words \u201Cvehicle camping\u201D because that is what it is. It\u2019s either with a motorhome or with those sliders, the little vans that the Hon Stuart Nash was talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this vehicle camping has really undermined the social licence that tourism had pre-COVID because of the impacts it was having on communities\u2014particularly areas like Queenstown, the Mackenzie Lakes, the West Coast\u2014which were overrun by motorhomes using locals\u2019 favoured sites to pull up for the night. The whole issue with poor toileting and faeces and not having adequate on-board facilities, and also the primary economic issue that in a number of regional centres you have motor camps and low-cost motels\u2014those businesses were losing out because people were choosing just to park up anywhere and not pay for services they could get in a motor camp or a small motel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI had the pleasure last term of working with the Hon Kelvin Davis as Minister of Tourism. From very early in the term, he recognised the issues around freedom camping, calling together a meeting of mayors to find out what councils were experiencing in those key areas, and then establishing the Responsible Camping Working Group which came up with a very useful report back in July 2018, and one of the key recommendations in that report was the need for investment in infrastructure. So, over the course of two years, there was about $27 million that Government invested in working with councils to ensure that there was appropriate infrastructure for vehicle camping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn Queenstown Lakes, which is the second-most popular area after the Tasman District for vehicle camping, Mayor Boult had regularly had locals ringing him with issues around vehicle camping. But there, with the help of Government funding, they set up both in W\u0101naka and in Queenstown a facility where people can have showers, do their washing, get free Wi-Fi for an hour, and a washstand for washing dishes. That meant that the vehicle campers were able to use these facilities and were less likely to be found trying to wash dishes in local toilets. There was much better engagement with Te Papa Atawhai\u2014the Department of Conservation\u2014because if councils ban vehicle camping from local reserves, they tend to go off down the road to our public conservation land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo that funding of around $27 million has been really helpful in providing response, on the ground, in terms of facilities. Minister Nash has carried on that work with the discussion document that was issued and people have responded to, but was interested in the Queenstown Lakes District Council (QDLC). It says that the review that Minister Nash conducted was a missed opportunity, that the recommendations are too narrow, and that they fail to implement a system-wide approach to change, and QLDC is hoping that there\u2019s a review of the Freedom Camping Act in its whole and of the self-containment of motor caravans regulations and the Camping-Grounds Regulations 1985.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party won\u2019t be supporting Maureen Pugh\u2019s bill, because we want to see that comprehensive solution that Minister Nash talked about. But we hope that the Labour Government listens to the concerns raised in submissions\u2014particularly by groups like Queenstown Lakes District Council\u2014and makes it more comprehensive. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2dcf3ac528e478a94574e855a81e33c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2dcf3ac528e478a94574e855a81e33c\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and talk about freedom camping. I\u2019m a converted freedom camper. I absolutely love going for a campervan holiday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EFour years ago, for the first time ever, my husband and I and our two kids, we got in a campervan\u2014a self-contained campervan\u2014and we hired it. We went away for three weeks and I had the time of my life, and, I have to say, I had a very, very happy husband. I had a happy husband because my husband loves surfing. He\u2019s a great surfer. So what it meant was we could drive up to the surf and he\u2019d be happy all morning or all afternoon, and I could just relax, read a book, hang out\u2014tell you what, it was freedom. Right up north, all the way to Cape Reinga, we did all the beaches, and honestly, we just had a ball, and no arguments\u2014no arguments\u2014and that\u2019s what freedom camping is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ESo when I talk about camping now\u2014[Interruption] Look, I\u2019m speaking to Maureen Pugh, who started this off, but, really, the National Party\u2019s just going to be going through the motions tonight because, as we have already said, we\u2019re going to be voting this bill down, because we\u2019re going to zhoosh it up even more. We\u2019re going to make sure that this bill really does the business for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, when I read the bill, Maureen Pugh, I was pleased to see the stuff that was coming through, and one part that I took particular notice of was that the Attorney-General gave a report into a serious side of this where there would be automatic ways to just go in and do an inspection. An enforcement officer could come in and do an inspection, and under the Attorney-General\u2019s opinion, he said that \u201CFor the reasons above\u201D, he felt that it was \u201Cunreasonable to exercise this sort of unreasonable search grounds.\u201D So that was something that I thought was quite interesting, and I think that will come through as we talk about the bill that Mr Nash is looking forward to putting through Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EObviously, this is an opportunity to talk about some of those things that will be coming through. We don\u2019t know what they\u2019re going to be yet, but we know what was consulted on, and it was very, very timely this week because, yes, the Napier City Council\u2014I read in the local paper, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Today, the regional paper from the electorate of Tukituki and for Hastings, that they had decided to close down Westshore Beach Reserve for two years because people hadn\u2019t been very clean. They haven\u2019t been doing the business where they should be doing the business. That is what this bill has really hit home, and it\u2019s just not good enough, is it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ESo the serious side in zhooshing this up and taking this a bit further, Maureen Pugh, is what the Labour Party is going to be doing through Minister Nash. One of the things we consulted on was to make it mandatory for freedom camping in a vehicle to be done in a certified, self-contained vehicle. We\u2019re making it mandatory for freedom campers to stay in a vehicle that is certified self-contained, unless they\u2019re staying close to a toilet, and that makes sense, doesn\u2019t it? That\u2019s the part that I think is great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAcross my holiday, there were so many good spots that you could park up and there were good toilet resources, and I can tell you just another thing. There was a bit of a trick with our campervan trip, because the family said that we didn\u2019t really want to clean out the self-contained ablutions, so we made sure that the first person who had to use it would have to have that job. So we made very sure\u2014very sure\u2014that we went and used areas where there were good toilet facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI can tell you, go for a freedom camp. They\u2019re absolutely brilliant\u2014one of the best ways to see New Zealand. Unfortunately, though, I\u2019ll be voting this bill down and looking forward to the next bill through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00223e0c99a697284b66a21d4668b785bcbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e0c99a697284b66a21d4668b785bcbb\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I thank the previous member Anna Lorck for that graphic description. Anyway, I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to make a few brief comments about this bill. We do have some concerns on the details of this bill, but I think there is more than sufficient public interest and stories and things we\u2019ve seen in the media of poor behaviour to at least send this bill to select committee so that it can get a fair hearing and the public can give some feedback, and councils, etc., because we don\u2019t want people to be going around the country and ruining it for everybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EDespite the construction of new and upgraded facilities around New Zealand, concerns do remain. People still raise issues, and actually having a working enforcement programme might almost incentivise the construction of new facilities as well. So that could be interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAs I said, I do have a few concerns. There is the scope of discretion, because officers will inevitably come across a whole raft of scenarios and different situations, and in some cases a verbal warning is more appropriate. We need to uncover any potential unintended consequences where people might be issued fines when they\u2019re not actually freedom camping\u2014you know, the odd occasion where somebody might pull over in their van to get some rest and fall asleep in the middle of the night, and what happens there. We need to have a good look at the granting of power to officers to conduct a search of a vehicle for the purpose of ensuring compliance, and so the concern there is simply around privacy and whether or not this could be an avenue for wider prosecution if they find other things while they\u2019re doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI did want to query as part of this the issue of the notices being sent to rental companies. That was likened to what happens when you\u2019re in a rental car and you\u2019ve got a bit of a lead foot and you go for a bit of a hoon, you go past a speed camera, and then the rental company receives an infringement fee in the mail for $630 or $30, and then they send it to you. So that was interesting, because I would have thought for this regime it would be more likely to be on-the-spot fines as people are searching your vehicle, so that\u2019s something that I was sort of querying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, I think it\u2019s fair and reasonable for these concerns and others and for the public to have their say on this issue because, clearly, the problem still exists. It\u2019s less of a problem at the moment because of the border situation and the pandemic, but I\u2019m sure this will come back. I guess the last thing I would say is how did I know that the Hon Stuart Nash would oppose this, despite it being right up his alley. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u00226013bc14a8a04601a62583da83605b3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226013bc14a8a04601a62583da83605b3b\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I rise today, yet another time, this time to speak on the Freedom Camping (Infringement Offences and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. When I first came to New Zealand as a young child, one of the things my family did was travel throughout the country, top down, visiting different towns and cities, trying to take in the beautiful sights of New Zealand. It\u2019s something that we\u2019re all very used to doing here in New Zealand, enjoying our beautiful landscape, but also what we\u2019ve noticed is with the number of tourists increasing over the years, there has been a significant rise in people who do freedom camp. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EIn 2000, we had about 10,000 visitors a year who were freedom camping. This number grew to 54,000 in 2013 and on last count, in 2018, it was 123,000. So I\u2019ll show you a little graph. I don\u2019t know if you guys can see it from here\u2014it\u2019s a little bit small\u2014but the numbers are rising. The numbers are rising and what this means is the impact of freedom campers on our infrastructure, especially in smaller towns, is getting worse, which means you see more and more people using the public toilets. You see more and more people park their cars in supermarkets, making it worse for small-town citizens, who then have to actually go around and clean up after these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ESo, in principle, I think we all agree around the House that something does need to be done about all these issues that have gotten worse because of our increased tourism, which is not a bad thing. But we do need to have a way of getting this under control, especially as the country opens up after this global pandemic is sorted out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EAs the Minister of Tourism has said, the Labour Government has been working on this for quite a long time, and the key difference between what the Government is proposing and what the Opposition has proposed is that the Government has taken quite a comprehensive review of this and has involved various stakeholders and a full round of public consultation, which hasn\u2019t happened in this space. That is quite important because these communities need to be able to get their word in on how the laws will be made around this, because it does affect these people in their various communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just going to mention a few of the things that the Government has done already to make this more sustainable. So if we look at the establishment of the Responsible Camping Working Group, where the Government put in $25 million in 2018 to better manage the freedom camping system, there was also an introduction of a data and technology pilot to provide real-time information on the capacity of selected campsites, which saw over 20,000 people check the live availability of the trial sites at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, there were a lot of education campaigns run by Tourism New Zealand about responsible camping behaviours\u2014[Pauses while another member listens to Parliament TV on his cellphone]\u2014sorry, I was just waiting for the other member to finish watching his video\u2014and in addition to that, there was provision of free access to self-contained vehicle standards, saving users around $70 each to allow people to see what was required for certification as a self-contained vehicle. There was also commissioning of research to better understand the number, profile, and value of visitors, both domestic and international, who go freedom camping throughout the summer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EAs you can see, the Government has done quite a lot of groundwork already in addressing this issue, but the missing piece has been the public consultation, which the Government did start in April and, as I understand, it has now taken place, and all that information will be used in making this legislation even better. So while I do thank the member of the Opposition for bringing this bill to the House, I think there are lots of missing pieces which can be addressed and which the Minister himself has agreed to look into as we move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ESo I would like to say no to the current bill as it stands, and I look forward to the bill that the Minister of Tourism will be bringing to the House in a few months\u2019 time. Thank you so much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00222363028df20448fdab45da00e8294d8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222363028df20448fdab45da00e8294d8a\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this bill this evening. There\u2019s nothing like the last hour of a members\u2019 day as we head towards the close and the final couple of speeches of the night. Hopefully, this speech will be sufficiently interesting that members will be focused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EObviously, we\u2019re looking at the freedom camping bill, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge Maureen Pugh for her work on this bill. It has been widely acknowledged from all parties that there is a significant issue in this area that does need to be addressed, and so the member is certainly accurate in her assumption of the issues. We heard from the Minister there\u2014the Hon Stuart Nash, the Minister of Tourism\u2014around his plans, and his view was quite clearly that there are important issues in this area but that he does not want to block up the select committee process with this bill. But he will be bringing a bill to the House soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to touch on an aspect around tourism and just explore our brand that we have. We have a very strong brand in New Zealand which has been built upon by successive Governments over many years, and that brand is very much around \u201Cclean, green\u201D pure New Zealand. We have built that brand very well. It\u2019s been a consistent brand for many years, and, look, by and large, it is certainly an accurate brand. However, we can always do better, and I think most people in this House would acknowledge that, and the area of freedom camping is an area that we can do better, and those arguments have been quite clearly outlined tonight in terms of some of the issues. The member Maureen Pugh accurately highlighted some of them, and the Minister has also talked about those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ENow, this aspect around \u201C100% Pure\u201D\u2014there is a rather unique opportunity that we have at the moment as a country in this COVID environment in that we don\u2019t have tourists coming to New Zealand. Now, tourists will start coming again from overseas, hopefully, soon. We\u2019re obviously all working together towards that, when it\u2019s safe to do so, and when tourists do start coming back to New Zealand in a safe manner, we have the opportunity to look at what sort of tourism sector we want to have in New Zealand. Normally, there\u2019s not an opportunity for a reset like this, so this is fairly unique. So I would like to acknowledge the work that the Minister is doing in this area to, effectively, reimagine tourism in terms of what type of tourist we want, where we want tourists to go, and, particularly, the impact that tourists have on New Zealand\u2019s environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThere is an aspect around the social licence as well for tourists, and this social licence is granted by local communities. We have heard from some local communities that that social licence prior to COVID appeared to be running a little bit thin, and, certainly, many of us heard that, particularly in this area of the freedom camping aspects. So there\u2019s the aspect of a social licence and the aspect of the opportunity to reimagine tourism in New Zealand. There\u2019s an opportunity for us to protect and restore our natural environment moving forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI understand that prior to COVID, we had around 800,000 people per year go through the Milford Sound. Now, when you go overseas, you often see that Milford Sound on the advertising brochures\u2014it\u2019s normally the Milford Sound in Hamilton on the advertising brochures that we see overseas, so these two areas are particularly important for our branding. Some members are saying that they haven\u2019t seen that one. I can certainly assure all members that that\u2019s certainly accurate when you\u2019re overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo, look, the reality is that having 800,000 people through the Milford Sound is not sustainable, so we must protect our natural environment. We must ensure we can deliver a high-quality tourism experience, and the Minister is absolutely committed to this. I\u2019m sort of running out of time to go into it, but the Minister did a consultation document and the document received extensive feedback, and that will form the basis of the legislation he will bring to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00225b26e740dc4b4895a100c556b3e56605\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b26e740dc4b4895a100c556b3e56605\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s getting late on a member\u2019s evening, as Jamie Strange, the last speaker, indicated, and it\u2019s a time, I guess, when the Parliament is sometimes at its best and sometimes at its worst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to commence my contribution in this debate by congratulating my friend and colleague Maureen Pugh for bringing to this Parliament a well-thought-out, well-considered, practical piece of legislation that can be implemented now if the Government decided to get off their high horse and stop being so arrogant and assuming that they know the answer to everything and that only they are the fount of knowledge and wisdom on all matters. If they took an occasional opportunity to seek the input, the contribution, and the wisdom of other members in this debating chamber, then they would be doing well for all New Zealanders in terms of solving what is a real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got the honour and privilege of representing the beautiful Coromandel in this Parliament. Just as my friend and colleague Maureen Pugh has in her part of the country on the West Coast, we get an awful lot of tourists visiting the Coromandel when they come to New Zealand from overseas, when they\u2019re allowed to, and we hope that sooner or later that opportunity will arise again. But, as other members have already indicated, there are ongoing issues in terms of so-called freedom camping, and I actually quite like the suggestion that Eugenie Sage had about the renaming of the system. It\u2019s not too often that I agree with her, but occasionally I think she has a reasonable point, and I quite like the term \u201Cvehicle camping\u201D, because that actually does more accurately sum up the issue that is at hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut one of the things that struck me from the Minister of Tourism\u2019s contribution, apart from his natural and very obvious arrogance and inability to even consider for a moment the input and thoughts of other members who have gone to a lot of trouble and come up with a sensible, pragmatic, practical solution for an issue of the sort that exists in many parts of the country, including my own\u2014around the beautiful Coromandel. It was that, actually, apart from some consultations and some meetings and submissions, nothing has been done. Not a thing\u2014zip, nothing. Four years of failure\u2014nothing has yet been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo where is the sense of urgency? Where\u2019s the sense of passion that the Minister so eloquently and so energetically brings to the House, but he delivers, in practical terms, nothing\u2014zip, nada, zero, nothing\u2014and here my colleague Maureen Pugh has a piece of legislation ready to go. I would have thought that in the best interests of parliamentary democracy, the sensible thing to do would be to actually send this bill to a select committee to hear submissions, to have the benefit of a select committee scrutiny, to give it the justice that I think it deserves, and to give the credit to the member that she deserves for bringing it to the House and for having the good fortune to have it drawn from the ballot, particularly when the Government seems so slow to move at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EActually, that would be a good thing. That would add something to the net knowledge and net potential benefit for regions like mine and others around the country where there are lots of vehicle campers who move around and, frankly, many of them create an obscene, filthy, disgusting mess. It\u2019s very obvious in some parts of the country, mine included, and it\u2019s simply not good enough. The aspect of social licence has been mentioned by other speakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo I am very sorry that the Government has, yet again, decided to take it upon themselves to be the fount of all knowledge and to absolutely not consider the input of other members, and not to consider the input of other submitters, not to give this bill a select committee hearing, and not to use the process that this whole members\u2019 bill system is designed to achieve of giving good ideas an airing and a thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, it may not be absolutely perfect, this bill. I think Maureen Pugh would be the first to concede that maybe there were things that could be improved by her bill, but I think to give it at least an opportunity for an airing and a hearing would be a good thing\u2014get it under way, get something done, and actually achieve something. So instead of having grand, energetic announcements that achieve nothing\u2014zero, zip, nada\u2014actually do something practical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo here we have, again, late on a members\u2019 bill day, the Government\u2014arrogantly, in my view\u2014simply deciding that they know best and that the opinions of others in this Chamber are not worth considering. That will ultimately be the demise of this Government, because they do it on so many issues. This might be just a matter to do with camping, but it\u2019s a signal of this Government\u2019s attitude. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022abf872c016dd4cfdac96fcbd8adf2355\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abf872c016dd4cfdac96fcbd8adf2355\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202109220107a97e409b4c46bc333eee65ae42bc000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"