"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022629dbecc630b466cb147408332ee11b0\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 8 DECEMBER 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226778ce11cafb4056b9603696a96178da\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 8 DECEMBER 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f50bcb29ae4c4094a31d4c1ee4f5cbdc\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022882f974624cf4c77a40136bfd8fe3875\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002224d5abb72c1e4de19d050a06dc2c56b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224d5abb72c1e4de19d050a06dc2c56b6\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker)\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002245976637a71440fe963fe44d26a611d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245976637a71440fe963fe44d26a611d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, no select committee reports have been presented\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e4f234b8dcc45f9a0f15d1dc48d67eb\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order. Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c856e6bdb747cb8967a072a56d79f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5210bed35e2443786880f781e349c09\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282bd08a4da48438a881fd7e3b75d770c\u0022\u003EWiki Mulholland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1463cde066949cabda7eaf7434900a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1463cde066949cabda7eaf7434900a4\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to move a motion without notice and without debate honouring the passing of cancer drug advocacy movement leader Wiki Mulholland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1c319d03e8a402e9751065af226dc0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864b9ac8834a4f9999889a75cf3b14d2\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the House express its sympathy and condolences to the wh\u0101nau of community and youth development leader, Wiki Mulholland, and pay tribute to the outstanding advocacy she led for better access to cancer drugs in Aotearoa. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d179d3310dae4788b025a40e41cd28d8\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002297239e587c8a43f1a5dfe9a3aeef6ddf\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb41da2a358b4e79a66344cc85c1bbab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb41da2a358b4e79a66344cc85c1bbab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No select committee reports have been presented. No bills have been introduced. Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002253c09d7259c049bcad28992e5b6092d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253c09d7259c049bcad28992e5b6092d8\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Social Credit, requesting that the House declare the Marsden Point oil refinery a nationally strategic asset\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Natalie Horspool, requesting that the House ensure the Te Awakairangi Birthing Centre in Lower Hutt stays open\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Ava Simeon, requesting that the House urge the Government to increase the Access Barrier boarding allowance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Ingrid Shaw, requesting that the House urge the Government to stop actioning ideas detailed in the He Puapua report until it has seen full public consultation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick MP, requesting that the House urge the Minister of Education to provide immediate, direct financial support for all tertiary students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002246567e2528904f37aed58f9c6d87ed99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246567e2528904f37aed58f9c6d87ed99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0310062d15c425e8ba1eda7f124925c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0310062d15c425e8ba1eda7f124925c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ETertiary Education Commission, Annual Report for the year ended 30 June 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EArchives New Zealand, Chief Archivist\u2019s Annual Report on the State of Government Record keeping 2020/21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002265455207dae844aaae340804951178c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265455207dae844aaae340804951178c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Consulting Matters: Observations on the 2021-31 consultation documents. Those papers are published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a79507083924d1289e1b48ebd13e863\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e49461194ab34884a64346e9dde9f195\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a8b0715ea4c4f8688bc40959dff98ce\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022fda4df7d590b41cba9710d461a0196ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fda4df7d590b41cba9710d461a0196ea\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3f5bfe36d284bce922ee32863eba44b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3f5bfe36d284bce922ee32863eba44b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101e64c0dd804aea923c6faaa5e43210\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she ignore advice from Dr Bloomfield that there is \u201Cno public health justification to maintain a boundary around Auckland under the [COVID19 Protection Framework].\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295a0cafa916a41259f66a67c111b7184\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: All the way through the pandemic, of course, we have taken on board the advice of our public health officials, but we\u2019ve also weighed that against the requirement to consider the best interests of all New Zealand as well. Our view was that over the summer period there would be a large amount of movement across New Zealand and that we could best balance the interest of Aucklanders\u2019 need to move with the interest of the rest of New Zealand not having a large increase in COVID cases by simply requiring unvaccinated individuals to be tested before departure and for other Aucklanders to carry proof of vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e515dfe7f2544afabc5874d9ae392539\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the thousands of Kiwis who\u2019ve been kept from seeing family members or saying goodbye to loved ones because of her decision to ignore health advice and instead maintain a hard Auckland border?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0c1f192c9c4fffba8a352b041a924a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I fundamentally disagree with the statement the member\u2019s made there. He claims that the director-general has given advice that there should be no boundary around Auckland at all. In fact, in his evidence he talks about the role that it played in preventing the spread of COVID cases throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acac7e192c9d48978b59d9f873438382\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has she had on the number of businesses that have gone under or the additional cost to the economy as a result of her decision to keep the Auckland border closed despite being advised by Dr Bloomfield that there was no public health justification for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d471311abba421dbd2a8171c95c6bc7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member is misinterpreting, or in fact possibly not even reading, the director-general\u2019s statement. He talked about, in their view, there no longer being a need for a hard enforced border from the point\u2014at that point, the COVID-19 Protection Framework came in likely in mid-December. So it is incorrect to claim that we have kept the boundary longer than we were advised to by Health. What it is fair to point out is when we changed that boundary, Health said we could simply lift it. Our view was that the rest of New Zealand would appreciate additional measures to stop the spread of COVID-19. But it would be in keeping with the member\u2019s \u201Clet it rip\u201D strategy with COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226569e17f363d4fe8ab0f93cc84fb5738\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call David Seymour, I just want to say that I had quite a few complaints yesterday about the level of noise. Some of it was a general complaint about the noise on my left, but there were some very specific complaints about sparring finance people, especially while the Prime Minister\u2019s mike was open. That is to stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229713b99e5e8b4ad6a5dd40504f4ed486\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister say to shopkeepers like my constituents Dave and Sumi in Mt Eden, who\u2019ve had their shop robbed multiple times, called the police, and they don\u2019t come because they\u2019re busy enforcing a border the health advice said wasn\u2019t even necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc163c3df1d64d38ba6755690e56bb9e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would ask them to raise then with their local member why he stands opposed to the idea of additional support for the police checkpoints through the use of the Defence Force, M\u0101ori wardens, community wardens, and Pacific wardens, because he seems to object to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ba86110ee354566bc5cd677c26a612a\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t she simply just make the call and open the Auckland border tonight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34980606580440f826a7e16a392ca8d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because that boundary\u2014which Aucklanders, and I thank them for allowing this to be the case\u2014has protected the rest of New Zealand from being part of a Delta outbreak, which in many other parts of the world has been devastating. I thank Aucklanders for the work that they\u2019ve done, and so does the rest of New Zealand, because that is the reason we have not seen an outbreak beyond that border that has been beyond measure, unable to be controlled. So to Aucklanders, again: we all thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d29574e28d7491895d0d4e6832c9554\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How are Kiwis expected to get ahead under a Government that keeps them locked down longer than needed and when the cost of living is rising at 4.9 percent but wages are rising at just 2.4 percent, giving average Kiwis a pay cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d64f5a37b81d41a6a9e1adacc9fb1385\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The only advice that I have seen suggesting that we have kept Auckland locked down longer than needed is from the Leader of the Opposition. The public health advice\u2014again, I point to\u2014reinforced keeping the boundary in place until mid-December, which is exactly what has happened, and that is because it allows us to get vaccination levels up, which allows us to keep our economy open, which allows us to keep people in jobs, and which allows us to be in the position where, relative to other OECD countries, we have continued to perform well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636813dcf72e43d1913c7ebbf379f40b\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement in relation to M\u0101ori providers seeking access to vaccination data that \u201Cwe all want to accelerate vaccination rates and access to data will help with that.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220336a01d4b0e49a589c28eb38d4e8b6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and as I\u2019ve mentioned in this House before, one of the issues has been, of course, that that data has been provided to hauora providers, but then we\u2019ve had an additional ask from Wh\u0101nau Ora to also receive that individual-level data. The Ministry of Health in undertaking consultation with iwi around the release of that encountered some who held the view that it should not be released. The court has now asked Health to finish its work in the next 72 hours to resolve this situation, and the Government supports them to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f1ebe8d2104f028021da4f9d456101\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What specific actions has her Government taken to release data in response to Wh\u0101nau Ora winning again in the High Court this week, given that she recognises the need to access data to boost vaccination rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c0309750b145689d68eeb13d2ba3cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The court actually didn\u2019t award the release that was being sought by the Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agent for the immediate release of that data. They did ask the ministry to complete its process, and I guess what I would come back to with the member is they originally sought that the ministry try and resolve the issues that were being raised by iwi. That has been done in, my recollection is, two regions, but there have been outstanding issues that the ministry is now expediting. We bring it back, though, to what we\u2019re all trying to achieve. Everyone wants M\u0101ori vaccination rates to lift, and can I just acknowledge everyone who has worked so hard to get them at 90 percent in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, to get them at 84 percent in the rest of the country, and to see our over-60s at well over 90 percent. We just need to keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1beaba46c1145ed87f7f2fb796e6b46\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How much of the record increase in the cost of living does she believe is a result of the 40 percent increase in Government spending she\u2019s overseen over the last four years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec86194bb854232b653ec7bcad31bcf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a curious question, given the rest of the world is experiencing the same thing and has not directly replicated what New Zealand has done here. As I said yesterday, the US is at 6.2 percent, the UK at 4.2 percent, Canada at 4.7 percent, the eurozone 4.9 percent\u2014the inflation that everyone is experiencing currently we can point strongly to the impacts of COVID. Increasing demand, supply chain constraints, shipping issues, increases in the cost of oil\u2014we are not immune to that. But if the member would like to advocate for cuts in Government spending that have substantively gone towards supporting the business community, then that is his prerogative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237626b8987ec494dbb66d1bbcd5b5def\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the Government\u2019s decision to increase the minimum wage to ensure that the incomes of low-income New Zealanders keep pace with the cost of living? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac3ea27a8eda49a4a4ad5cff81e716ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right\u2014OK. The members who interjected then will stand up. They will all apologise and they\u2019re all on final warnings for the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b69f42a79ba644339dec18e44602afcf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229207e75c64bd4c6fa32a9c7e1232ba0b\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d5df608c59f480dafb1ea1d13c8ae74\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58d101d53c34f8abcab6b75dbc69672\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Three stooges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f8bc6a488849bdacdea7224a71bd22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m just trying to decide whether to continue with the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac54837467504cf8802456c8dae9a8b3\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the Government\u2019s decision to increase the minimum wage to ensure that the incomes of low-income New Zealanders keep up with the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6a074bb9d0487595c97f6900768128\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely do. This Government has always been mindful of the impact of the cost of living on low to moderate income earners. It is why we have stood by, of course, increases in the minimum wage which the Opposition said would lead to job losses. We now have record low unemployment. It\u2019s why we have, of course, increased the family tax credit, made changes to Working for Families, and consistently had an eye to lowering and decreasing child poverty in this country. I know, though, that the member opposite will not agree. He has very openly spoken against the increases on minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741fd7b91e85414999724db0770e790b\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it true that with rent up more than 20 percent and food prices up more than 10 percent since she came into office, hard-working Kiwis are actually going backwards under her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fb35dd393b24c829caaec423beb3d9f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with the premise of that member\u2019s question, because, of course, until the more recent quarters, we did see wage growth outstrip growth in inflation measures. Again, in more recent times, we have seen that increase, but so has the rest of the developed world. It is the impact of COVID. I would seek, then, the views of the member as to what he would do\u2014price controls, perhaps? I would be interested to see his resolution, because, currently, he seems to be advocating for the removal of things like the wage subsidy, resurgence support payments, or perhaps even investment in our Government services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229766e402b2174809bac60b3aac09b288\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002242f62925de194228b452bee34d730fc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242f62925de194228b452bee34d730fc2\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221175d93b9e5d4753af39b0803c7ca31e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221175d93b9e5d4753af39b0803c7ca31e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E ANZ\u2019s latest Quarterly Economic Outlook has reported that economic momentum heading into the Delta outbreak was \u201Cnothing short of remarkable\u201D, and during the higher alert level restrictions, the wider economy has been performing very well\u2014\u201Cbetter than anyone dared hope\u201D. It reports that it is clear that macroeconomic stimulus has done what it can to limit the economic fallout from lockdowns. Domestic demand remains strong, unemployment at record lows, while business confidence is above pre-crisis levels. The growth in goods export prices has outstripped import prices and led to good returns in dairy, meat, and horticulture. Looking ahead, the ANZ expects low unemployment and a robust household sector, which will underpin a sustainable growth path for the economy of 4.2 percent in 2021 and 3.9 percent in 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda3f2fde6584a9994f72bd6ebccded2\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the labour market and its impacts on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589ddfaf6ce441b28532faa8bc588684\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the jobs market is supporting our recovery. Stats NZ reported last week that seasonally adjusted filled jobs continue to grow, rising 0.1 percent in October compared with a month earlier to reach a new high of 2.28 million. The number of jobs for men rose by 37,526, and for women by 37,414 on the same period. On an annual basis, the biggest gains have been in healthcare, construction, and professional services. Interestingly, accommodation and food services also rose by 5.3 percent, adding 7,559 jobs. Despite ongoing restrictions, Auckland added more jobs, rising by 3.4 percent for the September year, with gains also in the Waikato, Canterbury, Wellington, and the Bay of Plenty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a815da7945e4c4b82233c8141bc4725\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m sorry to do this, but I feel like I have to. There\u2019s a prominent member of the House not actually wearing a mask at the moment. [Member puts mask on]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a00f4c3418e941c389dd62125db1f73b\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e27871f20844aba18b34b489098e4f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to warn the member that his first two answers have been far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224dd1867acd34ce69b2626755649fffb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Right. So much good news! The OECD Economic Outlook for December\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7d10600c92424fa6ba8aeb1703e56f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That\u2019s the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022031ade246c26403a993cbc62c3bd47dc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002256a05f96ceec4163820825af0c101a38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a05f96ceec4163820825af0c101a38\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the latest ANZ Quarterly Economic Outlook\u2019s assessment that \u201CGovernment spending remains highly expansionary \u2026 The fiscal situation is quite nuanced. Many businesses and households are in desperate need of targeted support, but from a macroeconomic perspective, high government spending in an economy facing severe capacity constraints risks just adding to inflation pressures. That wouldn\u2019t be a good return for taxpayers, and also implies the RBNZ will need to hike interest rates more than otherwise\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b00ee0fe0d344dd9a2a9fdb0ded80a2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b00ee0fe0d344dd9a2a9fdb0ded80a2b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for floating up to the macroeconomic level, as his leader suggested! I agree with the ANZ that many businesses and households are in need of targeted support and that the fiscal situation is nuanced. That\u2019s why this Government has invested in our businesses and households during this one-in-100-year shock. As the ANZ says, there is a balance to be struck. We will be careful and focused in future spending decisions in order to provide targeted support and address the long-term challenges facing the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287b7cabc710543c3bd1bf5f3c5a48c36\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that one of the reasons inflation is at its highest level in over 30 years and Kiwis\u2019 wages are going backwards in real terms is because his Government has increased Government spending by 40 percent since 2017 and is now overcooking the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00dc3477b0f476f802c5da1c1c2f2d0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not accept the member\u2019s analysis. What I do accept is that in recent months, the Government has had to provide a significant amount of targeted support to businesses, through things like the wage subsidy scheme and the resurgence support payment, and, indeed, I have stood in this House and been called upon by the Opposition to put more money into those areas. The member cannot have it both ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cdee1e39a0546e0896d6f737978e384\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has Treasury provided him with a view on whether his Government\u2019s decision to run structural Budget deficits for the next five years, at a time of very high inflation and tightening monetary policy, is in line with the principles of the Public Finance Act, which requires Governments to have regard to the interaction between fiscal and monetary policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428892eaecf847f0b27639d99c65530a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we traversed in the select committee this morning, the Public Finance Act foresees a situation where, in the event of a crisis such as what we have experienced with COVID-19, the Government is able to run the books in the way that we are and still meet the Public Finance Act. It is fiscally prudent to make sure that we support people to stay in jobs, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e48154f20534e71af1b8d19d5724f48\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government running structural Budget deficits for the next five years, at a time when monetary policy is having to tighten to offset it, hurting many millions of Kiwis in the process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e9023188e1413fb00164223604a403\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot wish away COVID-19, a one-in-100-year economic shock. The Government took the responsible action of supporting businesses, of supporting Kiwis to stay in work, and I stand by those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222056e1fde1134aba843404f3a767329d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that he is turning up the heat on the economy with his increased Government spending so that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has to try and turn down the cooker in terms of interest rates, to dampen inflation more than would otherwise be the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b43ba36d08149d79eae6b8dc168acaf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is well aware that the inflationary pressures are being seen all around the world. What this Government has done is make sure that we invest in supporting people to stay in work and balance that with a responsible fiscal position. I do note that the member\u2019s party\u2019s fiscal position wouldn\u2019t see a surplus until 2028.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fe12f4d9564f908340ef6521c8446f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that overcooking the economy quite literally means less for Kiwis to cook this Christmas, with the price of fruit and veggies, for example, having gone up 9 percent this year, well above the 2.4 percent average wage increases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229255c6562ed24b749e29c55a73a305be\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s interesting, isn\u2019t it, because here we now have the true colours of this particular National Party. I presume that means the member is going to propose a price freeze. Welcome back, Muldoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c80ddcf2a22c48c496740c0dc09355b2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022d903f0cc86184103ad0476357882ffc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d903f0cc86184103ad0476357882ffc2\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What reports has he seen about numbers of people undertaking vocational education and training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002243b72fd4af3340879c7ab72687d43611\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243b72fd4af3340879c7ab72687d43611\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen reports about the take-up of the Targeted Training and Apprenticeship Fund, which has been supporting fees-free training for all apprentices and those who have been undertaking vocational education and training in targeted industries where demand for skills will continue to be strong or is expected to grow as we recover from the impacts of COVID-19. Between 1 July last year and 30 November this year, over 175,000 New Zealanders have been supported by that fund. More than 83,000 of these were in apprenticeship programmes, more than 52,000 were trainees in the workplace, and 47,000 were at our polytechs and other vocational education providers. The Targeted Training and Apprenticeship Fund is attracting learners from across the community: M\u0101ori account for 20 percent of all of those being supported, Pacific people around 9 percent, Asian New Zealanders 14 percent, and, encouragingly, around a quarter of the learners being supported are over the age of 40, so are being supported to increase their skills whilst in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b96d1d3c0b4aa587647c6eb098b957\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What support have employers received from the Apprenticeship Boost initiative in relation to vocational learners in their workplaces?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b62bd16f1b4573930baa6a974dad8d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Apprenticeship Boost, which sits alongside the Targeted Training and Apprenticeship Fund, is part of our COVID-19 support initiatives. The increase in spending that we\u2019ve done as a result of COVID-19 helps employers keep their early-stage apprentices employed and training towards their qualifications. Since it started in August last year, we have paid out support to over 15,500 employers, and that has allowed them to retain in their jobs 38,000 first- and second-year apprentices whilst also taking on new apprentices. As a result of that, we now have record numbers of apprentices, which is in stark contrast to the global financial crisis when apprenticeship numbers fell. To the end of October, we funded support for 70,000 apprentices compared to 52,000 in the same period last year\u2014that\u2019s an increase of over 32 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b92fd42016475b93f29a067f4b53a8\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What responses is he aware of regarding numbers in vocational learning and the support provided by Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226632599c35cb4fdbbbbf7fcde47e24e0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was recently made aware of the response by the Concave Construction co-chair, Graham Burke, who discussed the 49 percent jump in apprenticeship numbers since August of 2019 with my good friend, Mike Hosking, yesterday. Mr Burke told Mike Hosking that the increase was a direct result of the Government\u2019s Apprenticeship Boost policy, and to quote him directly, he said, \u201CIt\u2019s had amazing results.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a945ea3a57a4dae82e631dc648c8028\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002229ab2bfbc8034fda9026c20449845d35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229ab2bfbc8034fda9026c20449845d35\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Is the Government still committed to welfare overhaul; if so, why does the Child Poverty Action Group report released today show not a single key recommendation from the Welfare Expert Advisory Group has been fully implemented nearly three years on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00226f83a0b1071c42f5b6995d460ebca90e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f83a0b1071c42f5b6995d460ebca90e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and we are making good progress on the overhaul. This progress includes the biggest lift in benefits in decades, reversing the cuts made in 1991. The Child Poverty Action Group do great work, but their report released today does not highlight the extensive policy work under way and it assumes every recommendation has a finish line. We\u2019ve always been very upfront: these reforms require massive structural change and will take time. Transformation needs to be well thought through and coherent to be effective. Alongside the benefit rise, our progress has included removing the sanctions which impact children the most, investing $5.5 billion through the Families Package, increasing the minimum wage to $20, indexing benefits to average wage increases, raising abatement thresholds, investing heavily in job training, and increasing our public housing supply. There is more to do\u2014I have never shied away from that\u2014but the mahi is getting done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293eb38be4b234dac920b2b20db7aa540\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Why has she removed many of the 2020 COVID19 supports or made them time limited when these were all recommended by the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) and supposedly accepted in principle by the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa1c00e9a694bfda7e5db7a02f84208\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I would refute that. I think one of the clear areas of recommendation in the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report was around investment in upskilling and training and employment opportunities. COVID and the pandemic in general really did impress on the Government the need to bring forward much of that investment and that work, and that continues to this point and will continue moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070ca4ee1c1940e28bfa19d60b70e0ad\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to the report, which finds\u2014and I\u2019ll quote\u2014\u201CIf [the] welfare reform had happened on the [time line] envisaged by WEAG, communities would have had the financial resilience to face the challenges of Covid-19 [pandemic] with \u2026 confidence. As it is, the government\u2019s slow pace of reform is increasing Covid-19-related inequity and distress, jeopardising public health measures.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968a80c22bb64a23bc8cd0bcaa6de225\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I\u2019d refute the slow pace. I totally would accept, though, that there is more to do, and we certainly at certain points have been able to outline our time frame and what is in the short-, medium- and long-term time frames with regards to implementation of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s recommendations. I won\u2019t deny that COVID did throw a bit of a spanner in the works; it meant that some things came forward and other things were pushed back. With regards to responding to the income needs of families experiencing hardship, particularly those in the welfare system, we did move very quickly to index benefits to wages. We did in April last year immediately implement an increase in benefits, and then again this year through the Budget, which saw an immediate implementation in July, and more will come into effect in April next year. That\u2019s alongside a suite of other measures. Again, I will not deny that there is more to do, but I will refute the idea that we haven\u2019t actioned the Welfare Expert Advisory Group recommendations and that we haven\u2019t been consistently overhauling the welfare system since we got into Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227139ed9a9dd44a128c2520ac66936eba\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What else has this Government done that responds to the WEAG report and is part of the welfare overhaul work programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726078ca18a5467f9c6bb013685ce7e8\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: There is a range of work under way that responds to the recommendations in the report. This work has been carried out across many Government departments. Examples include establishing a new Ministry for Disabled People, beginning a full reform of the health sector, investing more into out-of-school care and recreation and after-school care programmes, supporting families through more lunches in schools, consenting more new homes than any Government since the 1970s, delivering over a thousand new transitional and 8,000 public housing places, and reforming the culture at the Ministry of Social Development and changing the physical environment to make it more inclusive and accessible. I acknowledge there is more to do, but it is important to take stock and acknowledge what has already been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224524b28b86c143c8bb49995855d2892e\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Will she now accelerate WEAG recommendations to further lift incomes in light of the Child Poverty Monitor report, which shows M\u0101ori and Pasifika and disabled tamariki are experiencing up to twice the levels of hardship as their peers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfcd1ee8c714529a46d0fd333c4fc6e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As announced at Budget, there were benefit increases that really do restore the benefit or incomes to a point that fixes what was done in 1991. There\u2019s more to do, but I do want to also state that in terms of addressing child poverty, it\u2019s not just about what happens in the welfare system or with the Ministry of Social Development. It is about ensuring that we have programmes like Food in Schools, that we do address issues like access to period products, that we do address issues like access to healthcare. Many of these things have been addressed and continue to be addressed by this Government, and we do need to make sure that alongside our focus on the welfare system we are looking at other spaces to address child poverty as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4e199f2d1e4ce49cfe26052d9e7e4e\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: How can she claim to be honouring the WEAG when modelling shows that if increases to core benefits in the family tax credit had happened in April 2019, as intended, a family with three children would be $18,700 better off in April next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272065550220f475d8a0c8af5f64723ca\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think the most recent information I saw highlighted that a sole parent on benefit now is about $175 better off per week than what they were in 2017 when we took office, and that\u2019s not including the winter energy payment. There is more to do but we have seen significant improvements with regards to income adequacy since we got into Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216bd8cb0cdd74a979cdebe7a7cac4d01\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the comments of the children\u2019s commissioner that an equitable poverty response which prioritises tamariki M\u0101ori and disabled children would increase benefits to livable levels and restore dignity to wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1191664e20b440d9e4a3ef1bcfd7114\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We are absolutely focused on M\u0101ori, Pacific, and disabled children, and do know what the evidence shows us and what we see, and that is that they are disproportionately impacted by poverty. Many of the changes that we have put in place through our welfare overhaul and in other aspects of our Government programme have been completely focused on addressing those inequities and ensuring that those children are lifted out of poverty. We have made some traction but we acknowledge there is more to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b62e8a4371344a49809a9d9396ffa2cd\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: When will we see any of the WEAG recommendations fully implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9645b66c59b47a7904d54f72208ce4e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said at the beginning, this is not a simple tick-box exercise. If I only look at, say, increasing our public housing stock, which was clearly indicated in the welfare expert advisory group\u2019s report, I can say that we have been able to do that as a Government. But it\u2019s not a matter of that job having been completed. We are committed to continuing to build more public housing and continuing to focus on ensuring that we are able to provide the housing for New Zealanders that is needed. But we can\u2019t tick that one off; nor can we tick many of the others, because they are about consistently focusing on those recommendations and ensuring that we are committed to continually responding to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a56bd0c8f045a588050e34fb729232\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Dr Liz Craig for the next question, I just want to indicate to members, because I saw some disappointment in one quarter of the House, as to the allocation of the timing of supplementary questions then\u2014I refer people to Speakers\u2019 rulings 180/5 and 180/6, which indicate, first of all, that no one has a right to a supplementary question at all. But, more importantly, the rulings of Harrison and Wall, not the substantive part but the very first line, or line or two, are that it is the practice to give the member who asked the primary question the first supplementary; actually, it\u2019s been my practice to give them the first two, and after that, if other members go for it, I will move around the House. Generally, if members want to have two supplementary questions, I\u2019ll give them straight away rather than breaking it up. I just think the flow works a bit better there. But I did feel some evil looks at me at that particular point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d388731f35347d5a39fbf368d2b5362\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0238ad099144f5ba83d4d7620ceba4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll just make it clear: more evil looks than normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225f0644cfdf14f3287bcd827d674a682\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f63e1ebf93154175aeb71f0ac17c5a59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f63e1ebf93154175aeb71f0ac17c5a59\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What medicines has New Zealand recently secured access to for treating COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00229b2c2c7731f545ac98fa750f9703650c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b2c2c7731f545ac98fa750f9703650c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s important that we have a range of medicines to treat those who do get sick with COVID-19. That\u2019s why I\u2019m pleased to say that, on Monday, we announced that the national drug funding agency, Pharmac, has secured from Pfizer 60,000 courses of another antiviral medicine, which, like molnupiravir, which we secured in October, can be taken as a tablet. Both medications stop people with mild symptoms from becoming very sick. Alongside vaccinations, our hospital treatments are already reducing the likelihood of people needing ICU care, with the ICU rate in Auckland dropping to 3 percent of hospitalisations, down from 5.7 percent previously. Of course, vaccinations and following the \u201Cscan, mask, pass\u201D routine are still the best ways of stopping the spread of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258c491fad53a467a881dc20fef8b33d3\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: How do these medicines support those recovering from COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0c52f45b80499e98660a9c4fbf7112\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Pfizer\u2019s antiviral drug, which does not yet have a brand name in New Zealand, inhibits replication but in a different way\u2014by preventing the cleavage of certain proteins necessary to create a fully functioning virus. This means you\u2019re less likely to get a fully functioning virus. This is similar to molnupiravir, which works by introducing copying errors during replication, which means you\u2019re less likely to get a fully functioning virus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295a744f770e64d50a7692dc8df3d55b0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CChippy\u201D talked about this yesterday. The House knows about all this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220851c88f88da4785b30a7844e0e1f90f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Just trying to assist Mr Bishop with the science of this virology. Both drugs are still subject to approval by Medsafe, but trials look promising, and, by securing access to both, we are doing everything possible to make sure New Zealanders have available medicines that are easy to administer and prevent most people who contract COVID-19 from being so sick that they need to go to hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d34c9c1e4a46c3ae582ddbd49464ca\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: When will these drugs be available alongside the broader COVID-19 therapeutics New Zealand has access to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c195912512254710aea8c88f82491417\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The Pfizer antiviral is expected to be delivered to New Zealand in April, once approved by Medsafe. These medicines will be an important asset as we continue to prepare for winter in 2022 and will work alongside our wider suite of COVID-19 medicines already secured by Pharmac, which includes baricitinib, remdesivir, tocilizumab, and ronapreve. We\u2019ve made sure Pharmac can continue to secure early access to new and promising COVID medicines as soon as possible, with $175 million allocated for medicines and supply chain costs and another $300 million available for purchasing more COVID-19 therapeutics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236461e4aed314c8aa994ac6230bf410b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002210d74f0bedac44f89d0c8cad137cf315\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210d74f0bedac44f89d0c8cad137cf315\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement in relation to wage growth rising faster than inflation, \u201COf course, it has, with wage growth being at around 3.5 percent and inflation around 2 percent\u201D; if so, does she agree with Statistics New Zealand that inflation for the year to September 2021 was 4.9 percent and wage growth was only 2.4 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00228e973d751fbc47caba1c4b0f3026a979\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e973d751fbc47caba1c4b0f3026a979\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1d23b0eaf741438b6f3062e672f93e\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that house prices have climbed by almost 30 percent in the past year, and what impact is this having on the cost of living for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae589e8422fa47b4a577ca04eb22f672\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we acknowledge, of course, what we\u2019ve seen as a result of decades of issues around the housing market, where CoreLogic now are signalling a view that they believe we will start to see a change in the housing market with additional supply. Of course, the pipeline is also likely to improve with the significant increase in consenting that we\u2019re seeing, and at the same time we see the percentage of first-home buyers moving from 22 percent to 26 percent. We know that a number of issues have contributed to the housing crisis we\u2019ve seen, but our view is that by closing tax loopholes, by continuing to tilt the playing field towards first-home buyers and away from investors, through a considerable public housing build programme, and through significant Resource Management Act reform, we are pulling all of the levers available to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab9d139fc30455e90161fd0b754f850\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by Kris Faafoi\u2019s estimate in 2019 that the Government\u2019s fuel market reforms would reduce the price of petrol from between 18c to 32c a litre; and, if so, why are petrol prices now at record levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30dc7d801774980aef56bfc06cf8d52\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because we\u2019ve seen global oil prices rise sharply from US$17.55 a barrel to now US$78.33 a barrel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027be7f19b0547898edfad591cefff42\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ed363f85104a24b4c3d4af69d332c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Baillie. This is a test!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c09ef8c7954d85b8590b1ec7affee9\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that skills shortages and therefore business costs could have been alleviated if the Government had allowed the same level of flexibility at the border for business as they did for The Wiggles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022637a1e5c478e4b5884d37bd421323aa0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Over 190,000 individuals have entered into New Zealand since we have had border controls. Of course, we all would have liked a scenario where we could have had the best of both worlds\u2014a COVID-free environment and free flow at the border\u2014but that has, of course, not been possible. We made a call that we would put in place measures to protect the community against COVID. That is what has led our economy to perform better than many others, and, of course, now we\u2019re in the phase of carefully reopening our borders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229df01648bad14760818f655bd8675174\u0022\u003EKaren Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that the Government just had a record tax take of $97 billion while families struggled to pay for groceries; if so, does she intend to offer tax relief to Kiwi families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f2018baad646a4822bcd29d91e06cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be aware that we recently passed through this House adjustments to the family tax credit to ensure that families who are in receipt of Working for Families, which represents a large number of middle and low income earners, will see an increase in that tax credit. We see that as critical at this current time in our COVID recovery. That sits alongside the other measures that we have taken to the in-work tax credit, to Government support, to all make sure that we\u2019re doing what we can for low and middle income earners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228f9bf7b1a6b43f0a0fe4b7cfe013914\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister agrees with Statistics New Zealand that prices are rising twice as fast as wages, why did she tell the House it was the other way around yesterday, and what does that lack of awareness say about her compassion for hard-working Kiwis squeezed from every direction right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc88c26ce7e446e9c9c175f62750a09\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, it says that the member wasn\u2019t listening to either his own question at the time or, indeed, to my answer. The member asked me about a statement that was made by the Minister of Finance in May of this year, and he asked about wage growth and inflation at that time. I replied, \u201COf course, it has, with wage growth being at around 3.5 percent and inflation around 2 percent.\u201D And, at that time the member made that statement, that was Treasury\u2019s future forecasting. The member has subsequently presented statistics from September. So the reason I can respond yes to both is because May, of course, precedes September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0411c8b145b4c9b87cf2a061a482fee\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022635ae6994e10498cae41237aecb44a71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022635ae6994e10498cae41237aecb44a71\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What recent reports has she seen on the construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002265e2150830e94b2eac2a5577f8bce430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265e2150830e94b2eac2a5577f8bce430\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen a report which shows that activity in the construction sector is strong and is playing a key role in supporting our COVID-19 recovery. The National Construction Pipeline Report shows that, despite disruptions from COVID-19, construction activity is forecast to grow to about $48 billion in 2024, driven largely by our residential sector. The report also projects a healthy increase in infrastructure activity, which is expected to grow from $9.2 billion in 2020, to reach $11.2 billion in 2026, reflecting the high levels of Government investment in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f27d4c4da8ee4005bf3d0784f3a8b27b\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What does this report show for employment opportunities in the construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312a94b8033642d79cc90de66b0e2653\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Employment opportunities in this sector are on the rise, with the report highlighting that the industry is now the fourth-largest employer in the country, employing over 281,000 people. This has been helped by the Government\u2019s ongoing investment in skills and training with the Construction Skills Action Plan, which was launched in October 2018. The action plan has a target of supporting 4,000 people into education and employment opportunities in the sector. I\u2019m pleased to report that it has exceeded the target by more than sevenfold, supporting 29,000 people into education or employment opportunities in the building and construction sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d403dcab072b4abea782edee9b7452f0\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What does the report show for activity in the residential construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b54757364324d30b28c11fc8d4eebab\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: In the year to October, we saw a 26 percent increase in the number of new homes consented. The report shows that this level of growth will continue, with 265,000 new homes projected to be consented across the country in the next six years. The report also notes that the outlook for residential construction in Auckland is positive, with an estimated 11 percent increase in activity by 2026. The growth we are seeing in the sector illustrates the Government\u2019s ongoing commitment to enabling more homes to be built and will support the Auckland economy by providing more jobs and apprenticeships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225af4b31bed6c44e288592acbc0d43901\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7b7573e1b95419898f321fea697a01c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7b7573e1b95419898f321fea697a01c\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Did the Government receive public health advice ahead of the Cabinet meeting on 29 November 2021 that the hard or enforced boundary around Auckland should be removed when Auckland and the rest of the country move to the COVID-19 Protection Framework, and did this same advice also recommend any regions enter the traffic light system at green?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb06318ceb2c4fe4b07de8a02c2e109e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb06318ceb2c4fe4b07de8a02c2e109e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, Cabinet decided to remove the Auckland boundary at its meeting on 15 November. We received public health advice ahead of that that suggested that the Auckland boundary be removed once the whole country moved to the traffic light framework, which would be a minimum of two weeks after all of the Auckland DHBs had reached the 90 percent fully vaccinated threshold. In answer to the second part of the question, the final recommendation in the public health advice provided ahead of Cabinet\u2019s meeting on 29 November was that Auckland and Northland should be placed at red and the rest of the country at orange. We agreed with the public health advice that Auckland and Northland should go into the new framework at red. However, in keeping with our cautious approach, including considering factors such as vaccination rates, health system capacity, and the need to protect vulnerable communities during an increased period of travel, we decided that a couple of other regions should also enter the new framework at red.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef7fc2434df405192ab0f874383bd8c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when the Prime Minister said as recently as Monday that the Government places \u201Ca lot of weight on the public health advice it receives\u201D, is there still a hard boundary around Auckland when the public health advice to the Government stated there is no justification to maintain a boundary around Auckland under the COVID protection framework?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c38917da7b482d84b4d3d9b4f7e607\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think the member listened to my answer that I gave to the primary question. If we were following public health advice to the letter, the entire country would not yet be in the COVID-19 Protection Framework (CPF); we would still be waiting for Auckland to be, two weeks after hitting the 90 percent fully vaccinated threshold, which Counties Manukau has yet to do. It\u2019s likely to do that in the next day or two, but we would still be waiting potentially up till Christmas to move the country into the traffic light framework if we were following their health advice exactly as it was presented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e5d1b11dcb48fb964590a341d2a57a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What regions were listed in the preliminary public health advice he received on 24 November as being able to enter the COVID protection framework at green?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ecda3bbb7b42619fd3ddd8a574648b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the preliminary advice that I received suggested that all of the rest of the country outside of Auckland and Northland enter the framework at red. I\u2019m happy to go back and check that, but I\u2019m pretty certain it was that everything else would be at the orange level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c800e8b8391247b2bbdd9fb3ee2bb24a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think there might have been an error in the beginning of the answer. I\u2019ll get the member to ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c38a82ad4d44fd9add798da92a3842\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: So the question was: what regions were listed in the preliminary public health advice he received on 24 November as being able to enter the protection framework at green?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294867684ff5145aebc8010e989041638\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: None. As I indicated\u2014I might have got the colours mixed up there in my previous answer\u2014but the preliminary advice, if I recall correctly, was for Auckland and Northland to be at red and the rest of the country to be at orange, but I\u2019ll have to go back and check. I\u2019m pretty sure the advice he was referring to wasn\u2019t advice to me; it was advice from the public health unit to the director-general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec7c7c5ffa44ec9b3b03b52822e4c5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the statements made by Dr Bloomfield to the Waitangi Tribunal recently were what was then presented in his advice to Cabinet\u2014that, notably, our preliminary view was that the various regions could enter into the CPF on green; however, given our assessment committee\u2019s concerns about the number of areas with low vaccination status, particularly for M\u0101ori, and current active cases in several DHBs were not just limited to Auckland metro DHB, this preliminary view was adjusted; the final recommendation was that regions should be placed at orange, except for Auckland and Northland, which was then what was presented to Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022790a95aaad11468698e3a01584a16215\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e34f7dc2b37453ba91f0ec69c1cd66e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that Dr Bloomfield has provided an affidavit to the Waitangi Tribunal that says, \u201COur preliminary view was that various regions could enter into the COVID protection framework on green.\u201D, and what were those regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022261d5700a20c480a87915ea4e3e30d10\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member has a\u2014I think the Prime Minister has just quoted directly from the advice that Dr Bloomfield has provided in his affidavit to the Waitangi Tribunal, which made it clear that, in considering the public health position and in considering what advice to provide to Cabinet, the public health officials weighed up a number of factors, and the ultimate advice that was presented to the Cabinet is as I\u2019ve set out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3eee2f1b64e4167b84e166782a59b11\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of what the preliminary advice said in relation to what regions could enter at green; and if he is aware, what are those regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227057835a3f5400aa520b323a2a0790f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pretty sure the member is referring to the public health advice that was provided from the public health team to Dr Bloomfield, not advice that was provided to the Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214880876e67d474086f76d274b8b5d4a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question is very specific, and we\u2019ve just had a back and forth around the fact that there was a preliminary view that was not the final view that went to the Minister, but there was a preliminary view that\u2014and I\u2019ve asked the Minister whether or not he\u2019s aware of what the preliminary view was, and if he is aware, what exactly the details of that are. He\u2019s answering about the final recommendation of public health advice. My question is about the preliminary view of the officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa8590d65814ba386581fd6cf85f25c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister made it pretty clear that notwithstanding what that advice was, it wasn\u2019t the advice that went to Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220759c67257c548ff82f4acdafc42b99b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does he know what the officials\u2019 preliminary view was in relation to what regions could enter the protection framework at green?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dfe707f04894753969a3db6ac3a9258\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Advice that the public health teams provided to Dr Bloomfield is, ultimately, a question for the public health officials and for Dr Bloomfield. I\u2019m not privy to all of that advice, but I have had regular conversations with Dr Bloomfield during that time about the advice that he was receiving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fea316c792ed43af99bfa7c6908bf9e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014no, it was a very narrow question that time. Is the member aware of the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265160515c0a84eabb95a1c6e05043383\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t recall the exact conversations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184ecf8fa8eb429ca037518f6a4d2272\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224911bf18c3ce450aada819d5e970688f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that I had with Dr Bloomfield. He was sharing with me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb1a421d16a24fcca2170c9a9c4890e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will sit down. If you\u2019re going to yell over the top, that\u2019s the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022588068725557450aa8f2e0f7b03c9988\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Mr Speaker, it was an exclamation of somewhat disbelief\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba10fe76cb3341a7b9703bc73c4bdd8d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I was assisting the member to get an answer, and he and a number of colleagues didn\u2019t want to hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022188cd16df6704118b31617790cc9bdd0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88ed15218e640b5b634e470c6aea895\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88ed15218e640b5b634e470c6aea895\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities: What actions has the Government taken to support our ethnic communities to get the COVID-19 vaccine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc1797cfd89e46a1b1b564e3213e6d90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc1797cfd89e46a1b1b564e3213e6d90\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This Government is committed to ensuring that everyone in New Zealand is supported to access the COVID-19 vaccination. We know that communities access information differently, have varied needs, and that a one-size-fits-all approach rarely works. So, amongst other actions, the Government established two funds that support ethnic communities to both access information and the vaccination itself in ways that are relevant to them. We established the Vaccine Uptake Fund to provide support for activities aimed at increasing vaccination, particularly in our harder to reach ethnic communities, and that has so far been accessed by 51 groups. This is in addition to the ethnic communities communications fund, which supported 71 initiatives aimed at eliminating barriers and countering misinformation faced by our ethnic communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e877f5a541a499cb5a003ef9118215b\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this funding important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a04657690f4f15871c8bff4014ac22\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Our ethnic communities make up a significant proportion of New Zealand\u2019s population\u2014close to 20 percent, to be precise. Since we know that getting vaccinated is the best way to protect ourselves and others, it\u2019s important that we support communities to get the information they need to get the vaccination. It\u2019s also important that we support communities to lead those efforts, as they are best placed to be able to access harder to reach groups within their own communities. Our ethnic communities have told us that, for example, being able to provide things like transport, interpreters, and collateral in their own languages makes a real difference in order for them to be able to organise vaccine drives that are culturally appropriate. That\u2019s why we created those funds, to be able to support community organisations directly with this. I want to acknowledge that vaccination rates are high across ethnic communities as a whole, but that doesn\u2019t mean that our work is done. We will continue to support everyone who is eligible to access the vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b220fcdc7f343aa8255915235d5ac29\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, I\u2019m going to allow another supplementary, but the answer must be much shorter than those two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278249dc5b66f4dac87052c95f97c535c\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What other work has been under way to support our ethnic communities to get vaccinated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95b27775d674354aba57fc57354030a\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry for Ethnic Communities has been working closely with key stakeholders in communities, DHBs, and in the public sector to boost vaccination rates. Amongst other things, they\u2019ve held information sessions and Zui with communities across the country, produced over 40 videos in over 20 languages with specific information, hosted vaccination days for ethnic youth, and also connected communities with relevant DHBs to help them organise over 16 tailored vaccination drives. I\u2019m incredibly proud of a huge amount of work that has gone into this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1801be95fb4b4bbdd1e7a4926ecfb1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! No, we can tell the Minister\u2019s proud, but\u2014No. 11, Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c550de14246428cac50d5e17c77cc4c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4c4f9496cf0453cbc7bf330b903a224\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4c4f9496cf0453cbc7bf330b903a224\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions regarding pay and workforce expectations for the public sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022756fa6f01f9547c2b2ef203e4d9914ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022756fa6f01f9547c2b2ef203e4d9914ef\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211904d05bd284b349f93909c54265241\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe the public is getting value for money with a 49 percent increase in taxpayer funding for civil servants in Wellington since 2017 when Kiwis are facing worse outcomes in education, hospital wait times, and police response times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5bde26f50e439da72578708e7d5739\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m going to give the member a chance to rephrase it in two ways. One, to tie it to the primary question\u2014the statements and the actions of the Minister\u2014and secondly, to drop the British term \u201Ccivil servants\u201D. We don\u2019t have civil servants in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078940679ade48bbb738002bab234179\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement in May regarding pay and workforce expectations and the need for value for money when there has been a 49 percent increase in taxpayer funding for public servants in Wellington since 2017 when Kiwis are facing worse outcomes in education, hospital wait times, and police response times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225704057fff1c40a18ece1d54df13a4b8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I think the member confuses where those public servants are based and the nature of the work that they are undertaking. Not all of those public servants are based in Wellington. In fact, a large number of them are spread throughout the country. It includes greater front-line staff for the Ministry of Education, for example, who provide direct support to schools and to children to improve educational outcomes that he has just mentioned. It does include the people working for Ministry of Social Development and the IRD, providing, amongst other things, the wage subsidy, which has kept the economy alive over the last 18 months. It includes extra people working at Oranga Tamariki to provide support and care to some of our most vulnerable children and families. The list of those examples could go on. The members opposite may want to call them bureaucrats; we call them public servants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204939ba4a70546858f03e2b3b304842d\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 14,000 additional public sector employees that have been employed since 2017 are employed directly as part of the COVID response, and isn\u2019t it true that the headcount had already increased by 5,000 before COVID hit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c891270ea03e403e8aeccd6b46c37b09\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It depends, ultimately, how you calculate that. Somewhere between 40 percent to half of the overall number accounts for response to COVID. So that includes people working in things like managed isolation and quarantine, it includes extra people working at the border, the people running the vaccination campaign, the people doing contact tracing, the people managing testing, the people delivering the wage subsidy, and all of those other COVID-19 directly related initiatives. There\u2019s a mix of permanent and short-term staffing involved in those numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aeca1924f2049a2a8bc2036598d56d9\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government hire over 500 new public service managers in the last year but not invest in adding ICU beds until month 21 of the pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8dd651a78e0467ba57d2962b7837338\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the latter part of the member\u2019s question is absolutely wrong. In terms of the first part of the question, as I\u2019ve indicated, the increased number of public servants has been very closely connected to many aspects of our overall COVID-19 response. For example, to have managed isolation facilities across the country, we need people to manage them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299fc79980af94e038ec4bcf3ae4edf6a\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: How does the almost doubling of the number of public service employees earning over $400,000 per year show \u201Cpay restraint\u201D as required by the Public Service Commissioner\u2019s guidance to Public Service agencies in 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214eec5f81f294ffcbc0a86d4f705fa78\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think one of the things we need to do is recognise that the nature of some of the roles being undertaken has changed and that we are ultimately recruiting in a competitive market for those people at senior levels of the Public Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34ed959464c4369ac5afdef50d5d742\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t want to bag someone\u2019s success. They\u2019ve worked hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b093c585fc04d0f8b0cd977c0d1f7a4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: But I do welcome\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a5ad6448c04b83918db979714ce380\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! Look, I don\u2019t know what, sort of\u2014it\u2019s boys\u2019 day out or something. Can the pair of you just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231da6af46c2d42809ca7bfbe86881351\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He provoked me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691b71e52ba542ddb7e0e1494e706764\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: That was yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228958af495b734d5f8b6415a89f9ca50a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. Well, I don\u2019t need the Prime Minister to help either. I could get in trouble if I speculated at what was causing it, and I\u2019ll stop, but the finance spokespeople are both to stay silent until the end of question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb834718fdb64be7ad5ea7580085f63a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, what the member misses in his question is that the overall rate of pay for chief executives, for example, at the top of the Public Service has actually decreased under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287e3ffe2ae494b6fba9eed7b3b842ad5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Prevention of Family Violence and Sexual Violence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5616c8257054529a07124916de6184e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5616c8257054529a07124916de6184e\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence: What is she doing to support the UN\u2019s Orange the World campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa1da142297a4480ab9cb6daebbbe3ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa1da142297a4480ab9cb6daebbbe3ce\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for the question. Orange the World is an international campaign that represents 16 days of activism against violence against women and girls, and I congratulate members across the House today for wearing orange in support of that day. It started about 30 years ago in 1991, and this struggle, this movement, has been happening for so long, driven by so many women and across so many communities. Yesterday, I was proud to launch Te Aorerekura, our national strategy and action plan to eliminate family violence and sexual violence. For the first time ever, we are working across Government, communities, and tangata whenua to address violence. This is an important step towards ensuring the wellbeing of all people, including women and girls. We not only have a strategy; we have 40 actions where we have committed as a Government, which will take us through the next two years as a starting point, and, might I say, those are 40 actions on top of business as usual. Te Aorerekura is the biggest breakthrough we have seen in addressing violence because it elevates the Government\u2019s accountability all across our agencies and our commitment to do things differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e64cec801c4ae4b903d5cda2dedcc0\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What changes does she expect to see from the Te Aorerekura action plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ee3f7754ff4c19b851cc39c6d1f46f\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Part of the Government being accountable for this work is knowing what this will mean to people in their everyday lives. We heard clearly from the community that we need to achieve both outcomes for people but also changes to the system so that we stop re-traumatising those who need our support. Over time, for example, we expect to see that children and young people understand healthy relationships, how to seek help, and that they can access tailored services. We expect to see that those that use violence are accountable and supported to change their behaviour and address past trauma. Finally, in terms of the system change, we absolutely must see that tangata whenua, Pacific peoples, ethnic peoples, LGBTQIA\u002B communities, older people, male survivors, and disabled communities can access safe and tailored services that uphold who they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5a0c2a42d04e2bb23c17d3731aada6\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: How will Te Aorerekura improve the lives of women and girls in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237766eaf9c2745288d766f75208db992\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I want to be very clear that no wahine or k\u014Dtiro should live in fear of gender-based violence. Te Aorerekura completely acknowledges the gendered nature of family violence and sexual violence, and it includes a broad understanding of who is impacted by it and who uses these forms of violence\u2014go to page\u00A010, for anyone who wants to have a look. Violence against women and children is widespread in Aotearoa. It is unacceptable\u2014full stop. Gender inequities and sexism in our society and the upholding of patriarchal systems, men\u2019s dominance, entitlement, and physical and sexual aggression mean that more men are more likely to use violence. We must accept and better understand the different ways violence is perpetuated and how it impacts differently across different communities. This is so important. In fact, this is the most important thing when we develop effective responses, healing, and prevention, and that is exactly what Te Aorerekura does. Finally, I want to acknowledge that member, Minister Tinetti, for her leadership and commitment to this work, and to acknowledge the important role the Ministry for Women plays in the Public Service, ensuring women and girls are visible and considered in Government policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231f2474c2fb444998dd8bd46e10db3cc\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f958459587d4a2093f41d1b54d550df\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022bed112c6c1d34ef39dbcbcfad0631ddc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bed112c6c1d34ef39dbcbcfad0631ddc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELast Tuesday, the National Party\u2019s Grabaseat sale reached its latest chapter. Chris Luxon took over and upgraded, and I congratulate him on that. But if you\u2019re looking for a man of the people, \u201CGet your power tools at Bunnings\u201D kind of vibe, hiring a black Mercedes to drive across the road doesn\u2019t really fit it, and, in fact, exhibit A, as I have it here, would show you that Mr Luxon\u2019s journey of productivity didn\u2019t start well. [Holds up map of the parliamentary precinct with route of travel highlighted] What would have been a quick, two-minute stroll across the road turned into a four-minute drive, not a productive drive. I do note that it required Mr Luxon to travel straight for 43 seconds before turning right for a minute, turning right again, turning left, turning right again\u2014this will be the pattern of his leadership until such time as he comes to turn the page.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have heard a great deal of corporate life-coach waffle over the last few days from the National Party. It\u2019s all about turning the page in the National Party\u2019s long-running saga, \u201CFifty Shades of Beige\u201D. But, unfortunately, the corporate life-coach waffling is now catching in the National Party. Yesterday, Simon Bridges went all Zen on us and said, \u201CYesterday is yesterday. Today is the future.\u201D, leaving out the critical final line: \u201CAnd tomorrow, there\u2019ll be another leader.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut it was for former leader Todd Muller, who took this to a new level, as he spoke of taking off the \u201Cbackpack of grievance\u201D, and I say good on Todd Muller. Leave that backpack at the caucus door, because there\u2019s heaps of people who want it, and it does beg that question of who will pick up the backpack of grievance and its inbuilt speed dial for the press gallery. Will it be Todd McClay, will it be David Bennett, or will it be Judith Collins from seat 19C, by the aisle, ready to push the call bell? But, unfortunately, she\u2019s already heavily laden down with her handbag of hostility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut there is plenty of baggage to go around in the National Party. There\u2019s Simon Bridges\u2019 satchel of stolen dreams, Michael Woodhouse\u2019s duffle bag of despair, Paul Goldsmith\u2019s kete of misgivings, and he was able to hand on to Andrew Bayly the bumbag of bungled fiscals, and all of it is kept inside the caucus threadbare sack of unity, because we know that members on the other side of the House will hold it together just for a moment before it\u2019s Grabaseat sale No. 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, on this side of the House, we are focused on making sure that New Zealand gets through COVID-19, and I want to acknowledge today the leadership of the Prime Minister in doing so, because throughout the time we\u2019ve had COVID and the numerous National Party leaders who have come and gone during that period, they\u2019ve wanted to open up the border and they\u2019ve wanted to lift restrictions, and all the way through we have had the steady leadership of the Prime Minister. That has led to the lowest mortality rate in the OECD, one of the lowest rates of hospitalisation in the OECD, and an economy that sees one of the lowest unemployment rates, at 3.4 percent\u2014growing in the last quarter at 2.8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETime and time again in this House, we\u2019ve heard the call from the Opposition to \u201COpen the border.\u201D; \u201CClose the border.\u201D It takes consistency, it takes leadership, and that\u2019s what the Prime Minister has shown and I want to thank her for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut, on top of that, I want to thank those people all around New Zealand who are doing the fantastic work to get our people vaccinated. Today, we stand with just four DHBs not at that 90 percent first dose, and I\u2019ve told Damien O\u2019Connor to go out and find the eight remaining people on the West Coast who will get them to that. Those vaccinators all around New Zealand are our heroes. They are the people who mean that New Zealanders will be safe over this summer, and I thank and congratulate them for everything they are doing for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002230131a5597da404eb76f8546a1209689\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230131a5597da404eb76f8546a1209689\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if no one else wants to take the call, we\u2019ll move along\u2014David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8d29c569dce47588e0cff884cefab41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8d29c569dce47588e0cff884cefab41\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This has been an absolutely tremendous year, and I want to thank people from right across New Zealand, from right across the political spectrum, from all walks of life, who have come to support ACT, and they\u2019ve come to support ACT for a couple of simple reasons. They see politics not working in New Zealand. They see a Government that leads by spin, that dissembles, and that\u2019s one party, but the other that vacillates and goes from one jibe to the other, sometimes playing \u201Cme too\u201D and sometimes criticising with negativity. That\u2019s why people come to ACT. They see that at the end of all this, they have a country that is among the last to emerge from the COVID-19 pandemic, except maybe China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe only other country that is trying to maintain an elimination strategy is the Chinese Communist Party - governed People\u2019s Republic of China. We nearly ended up in an elimination bloc of countries where one country\u2019s a communist dictatorship and the other one is China. But we are leaving the elimination strategy, last in the world with a mountain of debt and rising prices to boot, because we\u2019ve been sustained through this pandemic by two oceans\u2014the literal oceans that have kept the virus from our shores. Isn\u2019t it incredible the way the Prime Minister congratulates herself almost daily for quarantining a remote group of islands in the far stretch of the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe other oceans that have sustained New Zealand through are the oceans of printed and borrowed money that they\u2019ve pumped into the economy. Well, the chickens are coming home to roost, and New Zealanders\u2014hard-working middle New Zealand\u2014are squeezed from every angle as those oceans of cheap money that sustain this Government\u2019s COVID response start to overwhelm them with rising prices at the petrol pump, at the supermarket. Hell, we even heard yesterday that it could be $7 for a cup of coffee. Isn\u2019t that going to hurt the Labour Party beltway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe will, as a country, pass through the debt. We will pay it down in a generation. New Zealand has been through this before, but there are so many things we could do to make it easier. And here\u2019s one simple example: we are not going to allow our universities, our schools, our colleges to compete in the world for international students until April, or maybe even August, depending on which country they\u2019re from. In Canada and Australia, the universities, the education sector, have the welcome mat out and are competing for international students right now for the year 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s the supply of labour for our horticultural industries, for skilled labour, for so many businesses trying to grow\u2014they can\u2019t get people, and when there\u2019s no one to work, the wages are going up and every price with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, can the Government explain why it\u2019s going to be safe to open up the borders in a month\u2019s time for some people, in four months\u2019 time for others? It\u2019s safe to do it today in New South Wales, but it\u2019s not safe to do it in New Zealand. Of course they can\u2019t, and they do not understand the cost that they\u2019re imposing. But, like I say, we will survive this expensive\u2014you know, the Prime Minister calls it \u201Ccautious\u201D; I call it \u201Ccostly response to COVID-19\u201D. But this country is being damaged in much more profound ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EYou just have to ask yourself, if the Director-General of Health says we don\u2019t need any roadblocks in Northland, why are the police still operating them? Well, the answer is they are there to babysit a minority of so-called leaders from Northland, such as Hone Harawira, who have said they\u2019re going to cause trouble anyway if the police aren\u2019t there. That\u2019s the truth. And the people I represent in central Auckland, they don\u2019t get the cops coming when their stores are robbed and they call them because the police are busy manning borders the public health advice says shouldn\u2019t even exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the real damage this Government is doing. Instead of creating an inclusive society, we don\u2019t even know who\u2019s running the cops anymore in this country. There is a better way. ACT offers a better way, and we thank so many people who have come to support us as they see it. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd0f453cb7a34feda2b32b56d9d913ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd0f453cb7a34feda2b32b56d9d913ea\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. You know, in the midst of advice and theory and speculation, nobody really knew how this country would respond post COVID lockdowns. One sector that has done extraordinarily well\u2014despite all of the issues that have befallen it\u2014is the construction sector. The construction sector has gone to extraordinary lengths to build houses and to build infrastructure. It\u2019s with the proactive support of this Government that our construction sector has thrived in this environment. Those that we expected to be most impacted by COVID have been most impacted by COVID: M\u0101ori, Pacific, and women. And yet, in the construction sector with the use of the Construction Skills Action Plan and the partnership with the Construction Sector Accord, those groups in particular have been so well represented that the numbers of those M\u0101ori, Pacific, and women in the construction sector have increased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EIf I can just share with you some of the fantastic news that has happened in the sector, and I shared a little bit of that earlier today. We have gone from using the Construction Skills Action Plan, which had a target of 4,000 people into education and employment opportunities in the construction sector\u2014that has exceeded the number of people in the sector by seven times to 29,000, and that\u2019s just one opportunity that has been taken advantage of. Very early on in the development of the Construction Sector Accord, the partnership between the sector and the Government\u2014when we were plunged into our first lockdown, the relationship that we now have with the construction sector is such that we were able to develop with them a way to safely bring the sector back on board at level 2. So one of the few sectors that opened up after the first lockdown was the construction sector\u2014able to then continue on the massive house build programme that is being undertaken in this country. A record number of consents across the country and an unexpected, really, return to some great work in the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EAnd what else is happening to support the sector? So there is other work that we are doing to support the sector by a legislative reform. One of the pieces of work we have done is to ensure that we can build faster through the changes we have made in the modular construction framework. So we\u2019re able to build faster, but not only that, we\u2019re now supporting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258419e8e844347af99a94daa0622be5b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you the Minister of Police or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f763b516ba9a48f7a32d13fc1ba9c1e5\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I am actually the Minister of Police, but I\u2019m also the Minister for Building and Construction and I just want to tell you about the magnificent work that the building and construction sector is doing. And the work that we\u2019re doing around Licensed Building Practitioners. We know that in Christchurch, for example, that we a huge issue with the ability to know that our engineers were actually registered and working to their practice. The work that we\u2019re doing around supporting the development of some key criteria around Licensed Building Practitioners will give the sector some sense of security that we\u2019re able to continue to do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThey are a real rabble today, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not sure if you\u2019re getting this, but they are a little bit of a rabble today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ddb68dd959a442788903e1a72afe02f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m recording this, sell it as a cure for insomnia!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1457f3b3944e6281751e6ffb3eeb4b\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, are you falling asleep, Mr Brownlee! Let me help you with more good news then, shall I? The diversity into the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c14bde4a92eb4b23be850b3cc7ac5f28\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well if he is, the member\u2019s sleep talking pretty loudly!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0d8fa72036b467894ce3a2f35163c8a\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ELet me just say that there are some amazing opportunities today\u2014as we celebrate oranging the world for women\u2014in the building and construction sector. The Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation apprentices say that about 5 percent of women apprentices in the BCITO are women. That\u2019s up from 3 percent in 2019. [Opposition members applaud] Oh, thank you! What a disgraceful bunch of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002259fe42305f8b4cf2a897a0eb60b6c752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259fe42305f8b4cf2a897a0eb60b6c752\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Well, what a difference a week makes. That\u2019s all I can say, is what a difference a week makes, because, finally, Grant Robertson does some work. He puts it into his speech\u2014sadly, not into the economy. \u201CMr Business Premier\u201D thinks it\u2019s all about Business Premier, it\u2019s all about the economy, it\u2019s all about the people of New Zealand. He goes up and gets stitched up\u2014the Labour Party leadership transition\u2014so he\u2019s all ready to go. I think that\u2019s a shame, because poor Chris Hipkins doesn\u2019t get a go, lovely Michael Wood doesn\u2019t get a go. I reckon it would be a lot more fun if Willie Jackson had a shot at it. He\u2019d make it interesting for us. Mr Mallard, maybe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut what I want to say is that New Zealand\u2014don\u2019t you feel New Zealand\u2019s a great country? I mean, I\u2019ve lived and worked all round the world, and I can tell you this is the best place on planet Earth. But what I can tell you is in this place we also have a little bit of straight talk and we say it as it is, right? What we have to say is that New Zealand is losing its way, OK, and I can tell you why\u2014I can tell you why. It\u2019s this Government here. You see it in their eyes. They look tired. They\u2019re looking forward to Christmas. Kris Faafoi\u2019s there\u2014look at him. I mean, he\u2019s tired. He\u2019s waiting for Christmas. The reindeers are running out of puff. He\u2019s running out of puff. He\u2019s lost the way. What I want to say\u2014you can just see it. What\u2019s happening is this is a Government that does the PR, it likes the spinning but it actually doesn\u2019t deliver and it doesn\u2019t get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWe heard about that today. We heard about the everyday New Zealanders who are out there waking up this morning, going to work, paying their taxes, getting their kids to school, dealing with the congestion, and they can\u2019t get ahead. They can\u2019t get ahead, because why? Because wages are half the rate of costs. Costs are up twice the rate that they\u2019re going. I want to tell you that parents, when you talk to the mums and dads, they\u2019re worried about education. They know that they need their kids to have a world-class education. But what\u2019s the Government doing here? Absolutely nothing. Sixty percent of our kids make it to school regularly\u2014unbelievable. We\u2019re in the bottom in maths, reading, and science in the world. So that doesn\u2019t set their kids up for a world-class education, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s very obvious to us is this Government doesn\u2019t care about small business. They seem to think that sitting here in Wellington, they get to make everything happen in this economy. They don\u2019t realise that it\u2019s the punter that wakes up each morning, takes a risk, gets out there, makes something happen, wants to get ahead for themselves and their family\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252e70d15649f4e9cb69e99be134744d2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A battler.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249fbba044da34421b91f7a9ab453cbe8\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The battler\u2014exactly, that\u2019s what it is. It\u2019s a battling New Zealand that\u2019s out there who wants to go make it happen. What we\u2019re watching here is a Government that\u2019s not supporting them. They think they create the jobs, but it\u2019s actually that individual, that small-business person, that actually employs the people, makes it happen. What we\u2019ve seen here is a great leap backwards to centralisation and control, back to the 1970s, back to centralised Fortress New Zealand. That\u2019s essentially what\u2019s happening, and that\u2019s a shame. It\u2019s a shame when you see enterprise taken out of the lifeblood of a country like New Zealand. People lack the confidence to go out there and give it a go, lack the ambition. They say, \u201CWhy do I bother?\u201D, because of what this Government does in terms of treating economy and small business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s another group that this Government doesn\u2019t care about, and it\u2019s our rural communities. I\u2019ll tell you what: they really don\u2019t care about or value our farmers. They\u2019re not their people. It\u2019s very obvious. I can tell you farmers aren\u2019t villains, because, actually, they generate $9,000 on export earnings for each and every New Zealander in this country. They\u2019re the people that drive 80 percent of our exports. They employ 350,000 people. But I can tell you they\u2019re doing it really tough under this Government, because they don\u2019t care about them. They just load them up with costs and regulation. Think about it: significant natural areas, the Water Services Bill, slope rules, wetlands, freshwater regulations, and, literally, the farmer is sitting there on the other side of a tennis net being served 10 tennis balls at a time and they don\u2019t know which one to hit. I can tell you that industry is very, very special. The people are strategic. They care deeply. It\u2019s an incredible industry to be part of. They synthesize economy, agriculture, sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut the worst thing is this Government\u2019s become arrogant. It\u2019s become really arrogant, and it\u2019s become arrogant fast. You know, the reality is they had lots of promises, lots of announcements, lots of spin\u2014no delivery. Lots of wasteful spending, lots of bloated bureaucracy, lots of centralisation control, \u201Cwe know best\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut what I want to tell you is that there is hope. I want to tell New Zealanders that there is hope. Hope is coming to a town near you, and it\u2019s in the form of a refreshed new National Party. We\u2019ve reset. The National Party is back. We know how to put aspiration, ambition, confidence, and mojo back into this country. We\u2019re not going to go play a small, fearful, inward-looking game. We\u2019re out there in the world going to happen to our future rather than let it happen to us. So, New Zealand, the National Party is back. We\u2019re reset, we\u2019re united, we\u2019re focused, and we\u2019re ready to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022c044f574ba584aac8c41639c4169e152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c044f574ba584aac8c41639c4169e152\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s the last general debate of the year; so I would like to acknowledge the new Leader of the Opposition and wish him the appropriate amount of luck. The former chief executive of Air New Zealand\u2014my only substantive interaction with him when I was the member of Parliament for Mana was when we was cutting flights to K\u0101piti Airport. So the man who just told us that he cares about the regions, about small-town New Zealand, was cutting flights to K\u0101piti, cutting flights to Nelson, cutting flights to Gisborne. That is exactly his background in corporate New Zealand. But, again, I wish the new Leader of the Opposition the best of luck. A week is a long time in politics. I look forward to next week in the National Party caucus!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt is the last general debate of the year. So we deserve some acknowledgments. I want to start with my colleague Marama Davidson, the co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party, because it is a very special day and we are marking it by wearing orange. I want to acknowledge the work that she has undertaken to get to the point where Te Aorerekura was launched earlier this week in order to make sure we are eliminating sexual and family violence in New Zealand. That hard work over many, many months and years has come to fruition, and it will make a big difference to our families and our partnerships in New Zealand, and I want to acknowledge the hard work to get to the point where we are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt has been a difficult year but a year where the leadership of the Government has made a huge difference to the lives that New Zealanders live. The leader of the ACT Party was saying it\u2019s been a costly year, and it depends on how you look at cost, because we\u2019ve got the lowest rate of hospitalisations, the lowest number of cases, and the lowest number of deaths in the developed world, per capita, here in New Zealand. So, if you want to talk about costs, what is cost? Would the ACT Party prefer it if we had more hospitalisations? Would they prefer that we had more cases? Would they prefer that we had more deaths due to the COVID outbreak? Because that is a cost that this Government isn\u2019t willing to entertain, and actually I want to acknowledge all the New Zealanders, and especially Aucklanders, who have got us to this stage where we are right now, where, in a week\u2019s time, they will be all free and we will be able to enjoy a relatively normal Christmas compared to what we have had over the last six months in those conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge all the hard work of the people at the front line: the people who are doing vaccinations, the people who are helping us scan, the people who are helping us with our COVID vaccine passes, and the businesses and the organisations who are making sure that they adhere to that. And I acknowledge that, because we\u2019ve been through nearly a week of life with the COVID vaccine pass, and I\u2019m sure many members around the House and people who may be listening and watching have actually found that most New Zealanders get it. So don\u2019t listen to the negativity, and increased negativity, from the other side of the House, because New Zealanders have got this. They realise that the decisions we\u2019ve been making over the last 20 months have kept us safe, and they want to continue doing it, because everyone has worked hard to make sure we can do it. When you go to a basketball game to watch your kids, and they\u2019re over 12, everyone gets it. If you want to go into the gym and you\u2019ve got your vaccine pass, they scan it and they let you in. New Zealanders get it, and we\u2019re transitioning into that new world of making sure that we can keep Delta at bay from our communities, making sure we\u2019re keeping New Zealanders safe and New Zealanders healthy, and New Zealanders get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of my colleague Aupito William Sio as well, and my Pacific colleagues as well, because, for a community of Pacific Islanders here in New Zealand, we thought there were going to be big challenges to get us vaccinated. We\u2019re now at the point where we\u2019re 92 percent first-dose vaccinated across the country, and that is huge. But the work is not over. We\u2019ve got to keep having those discussions, having days like Barbara Edmonds organises in Porirua, to make sure we\u2019re getting those second doses, getting those boosters, having those conversations with our families to make sure we\u2019re keeping ourselves safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo my final message isn\u2019t one for the people in this room; it\u2019s for the people outside of this place, to make sure we keep doing what we\u2019ve done for the last 20 months. We got to stay the course, we\u2019ve got to keep vaccinated, we\u2019ve got to keep doing the simple things that are keeping our children and our families safe, to make sure that we can have a Christmas, to make sure that our elderly are safe from the ravages of COVID, those who have pre-existing conditions in our communities are safe from the ravages of COVID. We have worked hard to get to this point, and we\u2019ve got to stay the course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo I wish you all a very merry Christmas, but, while we\u2019re having that merry Christmas, keep our families and our communities safe by making sure you do the right thing, that we\u2019ve done over the last 20 months because of the leadership of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6270eb5fcb64120b73ba6086f95f103\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6270eb5fcb64120b73ba6086f95f103\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Well, we\u2019ve heard a lot about changes to do with COVID and the economy, but in actual fact nobody is actually talking about the most racist legislation in this House, which is the electoral law. The electoral law for a long time has locked M\u0101ori out from participating in this country\u2019s democracy for over eight years at a time. So if I take, for an example, the last time you could change on the electoral roll was 2018. Between 2018 and the 2020 election, 16,000 people got in contact with the Electoral Commission to change rolls. They cannot change rolls until 2024, so they\u2019ve missed the 2020 election, they will miss the 2023 election, and the next election that they will be able to vote on is 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis has been suppression since 1867, when the four M\u0101ori electorates were set up to limit the representation we had in this place. M\u0101ori were 47 percent of the total population at that particular time. If it was a democracy then, it would be a different story, but at this particular time, I want to highlight to this House that under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, we should have 50 percent representation in this House. Under equity, we should have 25 percent in this House. Under equality, if we are 16 to 18 percent of the population, we should have that percentage in this House. We don\u2019t get either one of those\u2014we don\u2019t get either one of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m saying today is that I have submitted my member\u2019s bill today. That member\u2019s bill specifically talks about allowing M\u0101ori to change between the M\u0101ori and the general electoral rolls at any time; to change the periodic requirement to redraw electoral boundaries from after each census to a set date two years after each general election; to set a legislation requirement that if someone stipulates they are M\u0101ori when enrolling but doesn\u2019t choose an electoral roll, they are placed on the M\u0101ori electoral roll; and change the name of the general electorate district to the non-M\u0101ori electorate district. This is the problem: you\u2019ve got a M\u0101ori roll and then a general roll, and then you hold the general elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis is why this whole electoral law\u2014well, I\u2019m glad Mr Faafoi\u2019s walked back in here so he can hear this\u2014needs to be changed, but it needs to be guided by M\u0101ori to allow us a greater participation in our democracy, because we do not get it. It is the only law that locks indigenous peoples out for an eight-year period. Where are you going, Mr Faafoi? You\u2019re supporting. He gave me a chest pump. I look forward to when he makes those changes within that particular ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe bill would amend the Electoral Act 1993 to enable M\u0101ori voters to switch between the M\u0101ori and the non-M\u0101ori electoral rolls at any time. This is the problem. It is not allowing us to do that at any time. We still have prejudice when we have our tamariki trying to sign up to an electoral roll that has already been predetermined. It is already ticked on there, \u201CI am M\u0101ori and choose to go on the general roll.\u201D We have evidence of that, because we have people send us those things on a daily basis. As they enrol onto a roll, it\u2019s already got a pre-ticked circle on their enrolments. This is the disgrace that our people face every time they go into this electoral process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ESo we get this every three years. The problem is, it also determines our participation at local government elections. We all need to take responsibility for this. It\u2019s high time that this country and the parties in this House start to take responsibility for the changes of that bill and support it. By not supporting this bill, it will continuously and consciously choose to actively participate against a Tiriti-centric Aotearoa. We need to recognise the mana of Te Tiriti o Waitangi that our ancestors, both mine, both tangata whenua and tangata Tiriti agreed to. Our ancestors signed this together. If we look at it as a waka hourua\u2014a waka hourua, a double-hulled waka. On one side, you have K\u0101wanatanga; on the other side you have mana motuhake. One side is tangata Tiriti; one side is tangata whenua. The thing that joins that waka hourua, that double-hulled waka, is Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We must grow this together. This is not about a difference between us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a41a42e1367439d9d9b5e9dc8047fe8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00229322ea4b32b44e06bffa4bf8924e5f58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229322ea4b32b44e06bffa4bf8924e5f58\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Greetings. Afternoon, everybody. It\u2019s really wonderful to have this opportunity in what I think will be my last general debate speech for the year. So in case I run out of time at the end, I want to say it at the beginning: meri Kirihimete to everybody. It has been a really long and challenging year. I\u2019m really looking forward to the Christmas break and some time up North with my family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk about our move to the COVID-19 Protection Framework and the traffic light system. For COVID, there has been no playbook\u2014we\u2019ve heard this\u2014but I\u2019m so proud of our team of 5 million. To my colleagues who are in Cabinet and to every single one of us who have worked together to protect one another, we\u2019ve done that by lockdowns, by wearing our masks, by scanning in, by getting vaccinated, to protect not only ourselves but to protect our communities. And thanks to our successful response, we have protected lives and livelihoods. We have the lowest number of cases, hospitalisations, and deaths in the OECD, and we should be really proud of that, because we have worked so hard to protect those lives and to protect livelihoods. Our economy is in good shape. So I want to mihi to all of our teams who have been out there vaccinating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAs I have travelled around Te Tai Tokerau in the last month since my last general debate, I have seen vaccination waka outside Roma Marae in Ahipara, at the Kae\u014D rest area as I was driving through last Friday, at the Moerewa Christmas vaccination event, at the Taip\u0101 Point Reserve Maheatai visit that we had recently, the doctors\u2019 surgeries, pharmacies, our DHBs popping up all over the place, as well as our M\u0101ori providers. It has been a huge effort. I\u2019m really pleased to say that the Northland DHB advises that we are on the brink of 80 percent double vaxxed in Te Tai Tokerau, and that is a huge achievement for us. We are apparently\u2014hopefully, fingers crossed, continue to do the mahi\u2014going to be 90 percent first dose by the end of December. We only need another 5,500 more. So to anybody in Tai Tokerau listening today, please be one of those 5,500.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really proud and pleased to know that 93 percent of our Pasifika community are single vaxxed so far and 80 percent of M\u0101ori. But Delta is here now, and our strategy has had to change. And as the virus adapts, so too must we adapt, and we are doing that. We\u2019re doing that by safely reopening, by moving to the COVID-19 Protection Framework, otherwise known as the traffic light system. And being in Northland, there is some concern in our community. We do have the lowest vaccination rate in the country, and we have many small, vulnerable communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI was reminded of this just last week during recess when we had the first COVID cases self-isolating in the small community where Dr Shane Reti and I come from. It was difficult for the community. This was a first for us. We had to respond. We had no notice, no warning, but I\u2019m proud of how our community came together to yet again come up with a strategy and a plan to protect one another. What they did was within the same day we had pop-up testing in this small community, and the people turned up to get tested. By the end of that week, we had a vaccination bus returning to vaccinate in our community where there were a number who hadn\u2019t yet been vaccinated. We also wrapped awhi and support around that wh\u0101nau who is self-isolating, and so far we have not had any further spread. So it is a real risk and a real challenge for us in Te Tai Tokerau, and I just want to acknowledge again the hard mahi that everybody is doing to ensure that we continue to save lives and livelihoods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI do want to use the last 30 seconds to talk about one other highlight from my recess, and that was selecting my youth MP. I am proud to announce my youth MP is miss Tyissa Hape, who comes from Bay of Islands College\u2014my former high school. I\u2019m really proud in being able to select her. I look forward to her getting an opportunity to participate in the Youth Parliament programme. She is looking forward to that opportunity. It also coincides with her final year at Bay of Islands College. Her kaupapa is around kapa haka and how it supports mental health and wellbeing and is also good and transformational. N\u014D reira e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a68a78480d2d4cfd96afcd13f1b3ea1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a68a78480d2d4cfd96afcd13f1b3ea1c\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealanders are sick of hearing about how good they\u2019ve got it from a Government who talks the talk but cannot walk the walk. Instead of indulging in self-congratulations about how good their COVID response has been, instead of back-slapping each other over their latest announcement and getting sucked in by their own spin, Ministers and members opposite need to understand what it is really like for struggling Kiwis right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want the members opposite to think about the Aucklanders who have spent more than 100 days in lockdown. Many still don\u2019t have their kids back at school full-time, and to learn today that the Director-General of Health said they could\u2019ve been out of those restrictions. I want members opposite to think of those who are in Auckland and still can\u2019t leave for a funeral or a wedding of a loved one. I want members opposite to think about the businesses who are continuing to struggle under restrictions with no certainty about when those restrictions will end. And when they\u2019ve done thinking about that, I want members opposite to think about what it\u2019s like for Kiwis when the cost of living is outstripping wage growth 2:1. How does that feel at the supermarket each week and at the petrol pump each fortnight? I want members opposite to think about what it feels like when rents go up $90 a week under Labour\u2014that makes it tough\u2014and when house prices go up $170,000 on average a year. How does it feel to be someone who wants to buy their own first home in this country? It feels like it\u2019s impossible under Labour to climb that mountain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhen members opposite talk about how they\u2019ve done a great job, I want to remind them of this: they took $50 billion of New Zealanders\u2019 hard-earned cash and they said they\u2019d spend it on COVID recovery. So did they spend it on a single extra ICU bed in our hospitals? No, they didn\u2019t. Instead, they spent it on a private Green School in the Taranaki, and $27 million for wallaby control. Members opposite need to remember that that is not their money they are spending. That money belongs to hard-working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAll of that is pretty bad\u2014the Government\u2019s not getting the basics right, so you ask yourself, \u201CBut are they doing what they promised they would do when they were elected?\u201D And this is where the failures are writ so large. Let\u2019s talk about housing. Let\u2019s talk about the hundred thousand KiwiBuild homes that were promised. How many have been built today? It is a disgrace\u2014the number is 1,230. There should have been 20,000 by now. What a disgrace. There are now 19,000 more people on the State house waiting list. That\u2019s the homelessness that the Prime Minister said she was going to solve\u201419,000 more people waiting for a house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister said that the real reason she was in politics was because she was concerned about child poverty. Well, I\u2019m concerned about the cycle of dependence that this so-called kind Government is entrenching, where there are 70,000 more people on a job seeker benefit during a time of high employment. Do you know what the real result of that is? The real result of that is more children growing up in benefit-dependent households, dependent on the State, growing up assigned to material hardship. Thousands more children in those benefit-dependent homes, and there are 5,000 families raising their children in motel rooms\u2014this under the administration that said it was here to solve child poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThey also said they were here to solve the climate change emergency, didn\u2019t they? Well, since they made that declaration, guess how many tonnes of coal they\u2019ve imported into this country: 931,000 tonnes of coal. It\u2019s a record\u2014and that\u2019s their response to the climate change emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat we have opposite us is a Government who have announced announcement after announcement. They have spoken from the podium of truth but have not delivered for the people they are here to serve. We\u2019re National, we\u2019re back, and we\u2019re going to make sure that Kiwis get a much better deal come 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b34ba46cf9854957a2e2532226cf1e36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b34ba46cf9854957a2e2532226cf1e36\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Fa\u2018afetai lava mo le avanoa lau afioga le fofoga fetalai. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on this general debate securing our recovery. Just like member Willow-Jean Prime, I would like to also say: manuia le Kerisimasi ma le tausaga fou. Have a merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all our colleagues in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EI want to use this time to also highlight the wonderful and tremendous work that\u2019s been done on the ground at our vaccination stations, but also our testing stations, managed isolation and quarantine, and also now with the workforce with the community again being cared for in isolation. I also want to highlight the milestones that have been recently achieved, with the 85 percent of eligible M\u0101ori and 92 percent of eligible Pasifika having received their first dose as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003ESpecifically where I\u2019m from, South Auckland, Counties Manukau are at 93 percent of first doses and 89 percent of second doses. So we\u2019re almost there, so just a plug for our wh\u0101nau in Counties Manukau to please come forward to get your first, second, or your booster shots done this week. There are plenty of places to do so. Also, across the motu as well, there are more than 3.7 million people who are fully vaccinated, and that\u2019s 88 percent of the eligible population as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EThe wonderful work of not only my colleagues out in the workforce but also the social providers, the youth groups, the churches, the temples that have really done the hard mahi, the hard work, in order to increase our rates across Aotearoa, but especially where I\u2019m from in South Auckland. One of them being South Seas Healthcare\u2019s le afioga ia Lemalu Silao, the CEO there, and their crew working tirelessly in \u014Ctara, with the vaccination centre there at the Manukau Institute of Technology, alongside the testing centre that\u2019s next door to the vaccination centre. Also, the Wh\u0101nau Ora food parcels that are used as well, because it\u2019s not only the priority of getting the vaccination; it\u2019s also the social wraparound service that\u2019s needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EOur Bubblegum crew, the youth initiative that go and engage with our youth\u2014they\u2019ve done a tremendous job as well, so I send my aroha to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EBaderdrive Doctors, who are based in Manurewa, M\u0101ngere, who also get around and look after our Pasifika wh\u0101nau, families. The many Pacific-centred - targeted vaccination stations that they\u2019ve been helping out\u2014I also want to say thank you to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EOur local Takanini vaccination centre\u2014a big shout-out to George and Raewyn and the crew there, on Saturday, on the Super Saturday event. Just this past Saturday as well I went and got my booster shot, and I want to say thank you for their work. They provide buses that can help our wh\u0101nau get to the vaccination centre in the first place, so I thank them for their mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EOur local marae that surround Takanini as well\u2014Manurewa and Papakura marae, the tremendous work that they do in reaching out to our wh\u0101nau has been tremendous. During the lockdown, I had the opportunity to volunteer alongside our medical crew from those marae\u2014Manurewa Marae\u2014and doing the mahi next to them has been a privilege, not only to get our vaccination rates up but also to have that sort of relationship-building with our clinical staff there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EOur vaccination buses that go out\u2014our Shot Cuz bus, that goes out to Randwick Park.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df6c8fd0ac3e4cb284e69667eeeb0d13\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yay, Randwick Park!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ef77d3287a4737a3a0ad4b610e7c51\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA\u003C/span\u003E: One of the areas\u2014yeah, that\u2019s right; Randwick Park. Thank you to the Minister, as part of that community, the Manurewa community, the amount of work that they do in order to supply that. I know our Shot Cuz bus was recently at Alfriston College and engaging our youth there. So I\u2019d like to say thank you to them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EAlso to our Pacific workforce and our clinical nurses that do the work there as well. I want to do a shout-out to my colleagues from our Pacific peer group that not only are doing business as usual in the clinics but are out there doing the testing and the vaccination but also the online MIQ work that they do to look after\u2014once you do get a positive, to make sure that our wh\u0101nau are being well looked after and being able to speak your own language; that\u2019s been really good in terms of engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EAlso, lastly, our Takanini Sikh temple in reaching our ethnic community, our Sikh community, the amount of work they do\u2014it\u2019s almost like every week they do a food drive in order to support our community and also the vaccine uptake there. So that\u2019s why this Government has done so well in this pandemic. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002221df1f18676245c4b2fc05cb87976518\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221df1f18676245c4b2fc05cb87976518\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E You know, it\u2019s been a relatively amusing debate, I have to say. Grant Robertson gave a good speech; Chris Luxon\u2019s was better, I have to say. But I would reflect on this: while Grant Robertson is over there sitting in \u201Ccomfy class\u201D, I think over the next year or two he\u2019s going to start getting very, very uncomfortable as interest rates and inflation start prodding him in that seat, and he starts actually hearing about the real pain that New Zealanders are going under.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHe\u2019s also going to be grumpy, and I\u2019ll tell you why. That\u2019s because under Chris Luxon\u2019s fresh, clear, resolute leadership, we\u2019re going to be resolutely focused on the economy and what matters to New Zealanders. Because we know, on this side, we\u2019re not complacent. We\u2019re not patting ourselves on the back while wage growth is 2.5 percent but inflation is 5 percent, sending New Zealanders backwards. No. We understand what it takes and what you need to have a strong economy in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis austerity nonsense scare tactics from the finance Minister is just that: it\u2019s nonsense. We understand the importance of health, of education, of police. I\u2019m delighted to be finance spokesperson for Christopher Luxon\u2019s refreshed New Zealand National Party. I know the value of health and education. I said in my maiden speech they are the meal tickets. They were the meal tickets for me; I wouldn\u2019t be here. I wouldn\u2019t have had an education if it wasn\u2019t for the public system in this country. I want to acknowledge what an amazing job Starship Hospital has done for my son Harry in the last week or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe get it. But the problem is while $70-odd billion is being pumped like steroids into this country by Grant Robertson\u2014it may have been OK at the start, may have had some COVID purposes at the start\u2014right now it\u2019s at the point of ridiculous. Right now it\u2019s at the point of Grant Robertson over-cooking the Christmas turkey that is our economy. It\u2019s a burnt bird, actually, is what we\u2019ve got right now. He is turning up the heat on that bird, and poor old Adrian Orr. I haven\u2019t always been particularly kind about Adrian Orr. Poor old Adrian Orr\u2014he\u2019s vigorously trying to turn it down. You know, we\u2019ve got fiscal and monetary policy going at each other because of the reckless, wasteful spending by Grant Robertson that\u2019s coming to fruition in this country right now\u2014wasteful spending, which is leading, not entirely but in large part, to a good degree of inflation in this country, making New Zealanders poorer and interest rate rises that Adrian Orr actually has to do because Grant Robertson\u2019s doing what he\u2019s doing. It\u2019s fiscal and monetary working against each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI actually feel sorry for Adrian Orr, given where we\u2019re at on these things. And if you don\u2019t believe me, look, the ANZ just today has said how overheated the New Zealand economy is and the spending from Grant Robertson is just going to make inflation worse and make the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) do much more work than it needs to do. The RBNZ have said that \u201CThe economy is working above its current potential.\u201D Well, you wouldn\u2019t want that on a school report, would you\u2014\u201Cabove its current potential\u201D. I wouldn\u2019t have thought so, but that\u2019s what they say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd6bd28421844d8b0a90d1aa22f37c7\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: I would. I\u2019d want that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef49120d1a1348e59995cb4babf24473\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Inflation four point\u2014well, the member opposite is at above her current potential, but we won\u2019t go there; that\u2019s just cruel. Inflation 4.9 percent, wage growth 2.4 percent. That means New Zealanders right now under Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern are doing it tough. Look, forget the Christmas turkey. Actually, as I asked him today, fruit and vegetables are up 9 percent this year, right? That will bite at Christmas. Petrol\u2019s up, I think I heard Chris Luxon say, $90 a week; housing 30 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThese are the components that with wage growth not nearly as high as it needs to be to combat that fuelling, that injection of fiscal steroids that Grant Robertson\u2019s overdoing, that burning of the turkey is making things worse, that fuelling of Government spending. And of course, it\u2019s not just inflation, I made the point, but it\u2019s the interest rates that are going to rise and rise and rise given what Grant Robertson is doing. That is hundreds of dollars a month for many New Zealanders, for those Aucklanders. Not just Aucklanders; people in Tauranga, people in Wellington, people actually all over New Zealand now with hundreds of thousands of dollars of mortgage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand needs Chris Luxon\u2019s National Party so we\u2019ve got a more productive country that invests not wastes and that\u2019s going to deal with inflation and interest rates and get them under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002264e80ad35656456ebf651681c4ef7b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264e80ad35656456ebf651681c4ef7b37\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real pleasure to stand and take a call in the last general debate of the year. I want to acknowledge, first and foremost, and congratulate the new leader and deputy leader of the Opposition. I\u2019m also very much looking forward to the members Simon Bridges and Todd Muller turning up to a meeting together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge what a hard year it has been for many this year. Each and every person in this country has struggled in their own way, and we\u2019ve all worked hard to battle Delta. It hasn\u2019t been easy for any of us, and I want to acknowledge the leadership of Jacinda Ardern for holding the ship steady at a very difficult time; in fact, it\u2019s been frightening at times. It\u2019s been a difficult time for us all and none of us here underestimate the cost of Delta in our community. I want to thank each and every person who has committed to making a change for the better, to getting vaccinated, and to working hard with us all just to try and solve this issue. Ninety percent of our eligible population has been fully vaccinated. This means that we can look forward to a good summer. We have the lowest number of cases, hospitalisations, and deaths per capita in the OECD, which does not deny the fact of how difficult it has been for us all here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI wanted to just share with you all, very quickly, a wee hack around vaccination passes. I am saying this because I am not an iPhone user; I\u2019m an Android phone user and I have had a little bit of difficulty finding the folder on my phone. So one of the things that I can recommend and suggest to you all is to take a photo of your vaccination and put it on your wallpaper on your phone. It is the easiest way, and I have this week used my vaccination pass a number of times and it works perfectly. So, a recommendation\u2014unlike the Prime Minister who suggests putting it at the back of her phone, I suggest putting it on your wallpaper. It\u2019s a helpful hack from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EAs a Zontian, as a feminist, and as a staunch advocate for the elimination of gender-based violence, I have to acknowledge the launch of Te Aorerekura. This is our first National Strategy to Eliminate Family Violence and Sexual Violence. I want to acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Marama Davidson, for her work, but I also want to acknowledge Jan Logie for her work in this area, and I want to acknowledge everyone in the House today who is wearing orange. So we are all wearing orange in the House today\u2014including yourself, Mr Speaker, thank you, we acknowledge and appreciate that\u2014around the Orange the World campaign. The Joint Venture for Family Violence and Sexual Violence has done some outstanding work on Te Aorerekura. We have a 25-year strategy around family violence and a two-year plan around some of those solutions. I\u2019m really looking forward to seeing this roll-out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EAs we head towards Christmas\u2014traditionally a very busy and difficult time for family violence services and family violence in this country\u2014I would like to ask each and every member here in the House, and those listening, to be part of the solution to end gender-based violence against women and children. I want us to speak up and I want us to speak out when you hear or see violence. To do this is the best Christmas gift that you could give anyone in your family. I want to acknowledge the work, the hard work that will happen over the Christmas period with the families, with the services who will be working 24/7 to keep families safe. Mr Speaker, Merry Christmas. I wish you the best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022873e7cf1983642fabcc25276f26873a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022873e7cf1983642fabcc25276f26873a6\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. That was a perfect lead-in from my colleague Angie Warren-Clark because I want to stand, in this time, to acknowledge that yesterday was a big day for the work to eliminate family violence and sexual violence for so many, over so long\u2014many, many decades\u2014who have been attempting to do this work for so long. The strategy Te Aorerekura that we launched yesterday is a start of a 25-year plan that we have never had before. Successive Governments, decades and decades of lesser attempts, have failed to reach the vision that I know we all want, which is for everyone to be able to live in their homes and communities in peace and free of violence, to be able to put your hand up when you need help and expect to be believed, to be respected, and to be given the support you need when you need it and for however long you need it. And this strategy is doing things differently because we need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI am so proud, as the first Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, to have been able to lead and launch the strategy that was the culmination of the work of so many, including my ministerial colleagues and our MPs, like the member Angie Warren-Clark, who have long-held work, insight, and experience in this work. And there are so many others\u2014the work that was led out by my colleague under-secretary Jan Logie last term, and the sector, the experts, tangata whenua, and community, our agencies working together. That is something that we have never seen before in the work to address family violence. And, yes, this is the start line, but it is a start line that we have never had. I am so proud and pleased because this strategy was created by the sector, by community, with tangata whenua, with our agencies, and so I am proud of the feedback and the hope that it has given to people, to the sector, to ordinary people for their lives and how it is going to improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe have not ever had a coordinated approach to eliminating family violence and sexual violence. We have not had leadership and accountability that is clear and collective across our agencies. We have made accountability for our systems to make sure that they do not re-traumatise and cause further harm for victims and survivors. We have put that line in the sand very clear in Te Aorerekura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to also emphasise that, for the first time, we are focusing on one of the big shifts, which includes a prevention focus and a healing and restoration focus. For far too long, we have had a workforce that does not understand trauma-informed approaches, and that is across the board, whether it\u2019s education, health, police, Oranga Tamariki, the Ministry of Social Development. All across the board, and in our community and sector, the people were very clear: we must have more trauma-informed approaches, more focus on preventing harm from happening in the first place, and people to be able to help everyone on their journey of healing and restoration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThis strategy also makes it clear that we need to provide support for people who use harm, have used harm, or are having thoughts or inclinations to using harm. People will see, in this strategy, very clearly that people who have attitudes or inclination to use harm want help to stop, want help to not go there, want help to understand where their attitudes and behaviours are coming from, and that requires us to move away from an adversarial approach to justice, because we want people to understand that they can put their hand up without shame and stigmatisation, so that they can stop using and causing harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe strategy Te Aorerekura also comes with an action plan of 40 actions. It is not just a strategy, because we also acknowledge that there are service gaps. There have been service gaps for decades. We have not properly served ethnic people, M\u0101ori women, Pasifika people, rainbow people, disabled people, trans people, older people. We have not served many well. So I am proud of Te Aorerekura. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca9ff4e6484141cb9d09cf273a42862f\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b78ad9a6181c4f3587bc7b9770bc846f\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022779887775dfb4e01835fd568bf14ec9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022779887775dfb4e01835fd568bf14ec9a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for the debate on the Government motion to extend the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020, the committee stages of the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill, the third reading of the Education and Training Amendment Bill, and the first readings and referral to select committees of the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill and the Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b32d68896a5e43e58f18f95ae9eb50de\u0022\u003EPalmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7f01a2e110c47a484282c084341bf9c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00225df9ebd2da1c430d99ec84a0a1f0fb56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df9ebd2da1c430d99ec84a0a1f0fb56\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI rise in support of this bill from my local council. I have to say that being a member of Parliament obviously is littered with a number of firsts. Having a bill drawn from the biscuit tin is one, and I can very gladly at this stage tick that box, and now having a local bill as part of the proceedings today is another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELegislatively, this issue before the House today stems from 1922\u2014some would argue before that when we look at the ownership of the land in question. But specifically the Palmerston North Reserves Act of 1922, historically nearly 100 years in the making, meant that the Palmerston North City Council holds or owns certain lands in the area. That 1922 Act identified that certain specified land could not be sold, and those were identified by way of a list in the Act and by way of a Schedule as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe situation that my local council, or the Palmerston North City Council, finds itself in is that if any of that certain specified land becomes surplus to requirements, which I accept can be a subjective consideration, then it needs to go through a legislative process through the Parliament, not simply something that the council can manage and determine itself in order to be able to sell the land or lift the status of the land so that it could be potentially developed or sold. That essentially is the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Act of 1966. This local amendment bill seeks to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe land in question here is locally or colloquially known as the Huia Street Reserve. Now, Huia Street is actually the roadway or the street that runs between the local tennis club and Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School. Actually, those that have a look back through the parliamentary record will see that this Act has actually been amended in the past to provide for some land to be transferred over from the Crown to the Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School. The land in question here obviously has a legal description. I\u2019m advised that it\u2019s 1.6032 hectares in size, but essentially it is a parcel of land situated on the corner of Fitzherbert Avenue and Park Road. Now, those travelling into Palmerston North from the south-eastern entrance\u2014and yes, we have more than one entrance into our fine city. Actually, you can get there through the north-eastern, the north-western, and the south-western entrance. But those travelling the south-eastern entrance coming across Fitzherbert Bridge, over the Manawat\u016B River, will notice that it\u2019s actually parked up on the left-hand side as you enter the city. Actually, it\u2019s halfway between the river and the square, Te Marae o Hine. So it is centrally located and an ideal location.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, I, along with others, were born in Palmerston North, so I grew up fairly familiar with this piece of land and the use over the years. And I know that others will be familiar with it as well. My colleagues Deborah Russell; Rachel Boyack, who may wish to take a call; Teanau Tuiono; Mr McKelvie, I acknowledge in the House\u2014he is familiar with it as well. But also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0cca542866f4f3db1c019fd63d41d7d\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I think I drove past once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4066441d8f4e08bb6133d352ae4ba9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bbdde46ea44c9dbe1fab2874207b50\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: And anyone\u2019s happy to have a drive past in Palmerston North to check this bit of land out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70a24d63d37457687343cbb2799f9c5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225245122dd6ca4af8b95000f6f15f951d\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a55ccaff377d47b096528d98420eb648\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Is also familiar with Palmerston North, please don\u2019t leave me out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220799d4bf23ee40bc902294cc03c462fc\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, my apologies. And can I just acknowledge Madam Speaker, who has a fine history with my former school\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240abc4b6d20b47be97c8b10cb84617f4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Only born and bred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de81c3656234caba60781a7c97cd20a\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Freyberg High School as well. So my list is not an exclusive one; it is one that reflects the fact that there are members in this House who are very, very familiar with this fine city of Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut what I would say is that there has been a lot of chat over the years that this prime site would be developed in particular ways, for a petrol station and the like\u2014there\u2019s many there. But it\u2019s been known as a bowling club, occupied by the Manawat\u016B Bowling Club, alongside petanque opportunities, and currently it sits vacant. And it actually has been vacant since 2005, so some 16 years. So the local council, via this local bill, wishes to explore future options around residential development of the site in question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is not the first time, however, that this piece of land has been subject to the parliamentary process. In 2007, the member for Parliament North at the time, the Hon Steve Maharey, introduced an amendment bill that went through first reading and went to the select committee. Now, the outcome of that select committee process was that the bill, as I understand it, was discharged. It\u2019s fair to say that there were a few hiccups along the way. So I\u2019ve had a look back through the Hansard at the comments from Mr Maharey at the time, because I have been keen to ensure that those hurdles are not hurdles that may, from a process perspective, get in the way of the select committee and its determination if this bill proceeds beyond first reading. So when I have a look at the comments from the Hon Steve Maharey, he says in the Hansard \u201Cthat it is the parliamentary convention that the local MP sponsors bills of this nature through the House. It provides a mechanism whereby people can make sure that legislation is passed from a local point of view. In this case it is the Palmerston North City Council that wants this legislation to be passed and it is my duty to ensure that it is advanced so it can be discussed.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, I go a little bit further than one of my predecessors\u2014Mr Maharey\u2014in that I think before that duty is discharged, it is the responsibility of a local member to satisfy themselves that the relevant processes by a council have actually been followed. So I do want to just acknowledge the Palmerston North City Council\u2014in particular Desiree Harvey, the legal counsel, David Murphy and Michael Duindam\u2014for the preparation that they\u2019ve undertaken in this particular regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn looking at this local bill and back to the issues raised at the time, there were four. The first is concern about the notification process: the lack of a community mandate for any future development back in 2007. The council, in my view, has commenced a process. It has produced for me and for the Clerk a council resolution. It\u2019s not a unanimous resolution. It was, as I understand it, a 12 to two vote in favour. I have to say that I was acutely aware of this, because I was the deputy mayor at the time that the consultation process was undertaken. However, as the council\u2019s planning and strategy committee considered this position and voted on it three days before the general election, out of an abundance of caution I withdrew from considerations, so there is no conflict of in that particular regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe previous Hansard does indicate that the former member for Rangit\u012Bkei Simon Power also had some concerns about the process being followed. The council informed me that Mr McKelvie and also the member for Te Tai Hau\u0101uru, Adrian Rurawhe, have also been notified and kept informed of this throughout the entire process. I also note that concerns previously around the tennis club have also been advanced as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second issue was a concern that the select committee had a number of city councillors who fronted up to the select committee, and so the council needed to be very clear that its justification for proceeding was there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENumber three as a concern was about an insufficient amount of reserve land as a result of a potential change in the land\u2019s status. Now, I would suggest that there is a significant amount of green space. I\u2019m advised that it\u2019s around 80 hectares in the immediate vicinity of that area. When we talk about Ongley Park, Manawaroa Park, Fitzherbert Park, the Victoria Esplanade, which is iconic and a jewel in the city\u2019s and region\u2019s crown as well, alongside, obviously, the Manawat\u016B River pathways and He Ara Kotahi. So those considerations, I\u2019m sure, will be addressed by the select committee, but, in my view, they need to be balanced alongside the fact that there is around 50 hectares of green space in immediate surrounds of the Huia Reserve land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EAnd the final concern at the time back in 2007 was raised by the M\u0101ori Party, which was concerns around the lack of engagement with local iwi, Rangit\u0101ne. I actually want to acknowledge the strong relationship that the Palmerston North City Council has with Rangit\u0101ne. It is something that has been worked on and developed over many years. I have to say that I have also been advised that Rangit\u0101ne are aware of this and that this will not come as any surprise to them as the bill works its way through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo considering those four hurdles that were fairly clear when this bill came to the Parliament last, I am satisfied that, yes, it is my duty as the local member for Palmerston North to proceed with this bill and, having those four hurdles cleared, I am satisfied that it is appropriate to be able to be in a position today to say, yes, we\u2019ll await the next process if this does pass first reading this afternoon, but on that basis I am delighted to be able to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f591848b984942a39c214fc526c572ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f591848b984942a39c214fc526c572ce\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228ffe45d668f347c294c3449c9c2e43de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ffe45d668f347c294c3449c9c2e43de\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill and to follow the member Tangi Utikere for the second time on a bill he\u2019s introduced to the House in the last few weeks. He\u2019s outlined it extremely well, and I was wondering why it hadn\u2019t come to the Governance and Administration Committee until he claimed the fact that last time it went to the Governance and Administration Committee, they sent it back. So he won\u2019t be sending it there this time, and probably for very good reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt is an interesting piece of legislation, because one of the great frustrations for councils right around the country is the fact that they have these reserves that they\u2019ve been accumulating, in some cases, over hundreds of years, which, when they sell them, the Government either confiscates half the money and uses it somewhere else, or otherwise they just hold them because they don\u2019t want to give the Government half the money, which is very unfortunate. It\u2019s interesting in this case. It\u2019s a little bit different because Palmerston North has a couple of Acts of its own which enable it, through this mechanism, actually, to get to the point where they can, if they wish to, sell that piece of land and reinvest it in further, I guess, green space, or parks and reserves, for the use of the city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EPalmerston North\u2019s quite an interesting place. It\u2019s had a lot of names in my time. It was called the \u201CRose City\u201D for a while, and, actually, it\u2019s got 5,000 roses in its rose garden\u2014imagine trying to prune them. The most famous of them is named after another name that it was called for a while\u2014and, actually, I think it\u2019s been rejuvenated now\u2014which is the name of \u201CPalmy\u201D, and that\u2019s the Pride of Palmy, which is a bright yellow rose. It\u2019s very pretty, actually, and that\u2019s just been released, I think, last year and planted in the Palmerston North rose garden. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also called the \u201CStudent City\u201D, and it\u2019s had a lot of names, but the most famous name of all was John Cleese\u2019s name that he gave it, which I won\u2019t repeat in here. But he then had the rubbish dump named after him, so you can imagine it was quite an appropriate name they gave him. He won\u2019t be invited back to Palmerston North, I\u2019m quite sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut, as Tangi Utikere explained, there is an enormous number of reserves and very attractive public areas in Palmerston North, and particularly in this part of town because, as he explained, this reserve is adjacent to the Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School, which is, in turn, adjacent to the Esplanade and Ongley Park, which are massively big pieces of reserve land. That, of course, is then adjacent to the Manawat\u016B River, which, aside from in 2004, usually behaves itself, and you can get from Ashhurst all the way to Longburn down the Manawat\u016B River, which is most attractive and has been beautifully tracked by the Palmerston North City Council. So there are plenty of opportunities, in my view, for alternative reserve facilities in Palmerston North. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWhilst there\u2019s always opposition to city councils or to councils of any sort selling off public reserves, and you can understand why to some extent, I think the Palmerston North City Council is particularly cognisant of its reserves. It makes a great effort to make sure that those are available to the public, and there\u2019s plenty of space available for that. So I think it\u2019s a very good use of this land for it to be redesignated, and if, in fact, the council want to sell it in the future, they can, and if, in fact, they want to redevelop it themselves, they could. They may well do that, I imagine, because it is an ideal place for housing. It\u2019s on a main traffic thoroughfare, it\u2019s very close to the CBD, and it\u2019s ideal for the kind of development that they clearly have in mind for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an interesting process, bringing Acts through this Parliament. I, in fact, myself was the mayor of a council that brought an Act through here called the Manfeild Park Act in 2006, which enabled Manfeild Park to be converted. The reason for that was it was taken from being a racecourse and, effectively, transferred into a reserve in the Manawat\u016B District, and that\u2019s a very big reserve just adjacent to Feilding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think the member for Palmerston North has framed the process very well. I think it\u2019s worthy of support, this kind of legislation going through the House. I think, in a funny way, it\u2019s unfortunate that we have the legislation in the manner it is, because it does, as I said earlier, inhibit councils and communities from doing what they want to do with land. But, at the same time, we have to have a balance and a safeguard from that type of activity, so it is a fine balancing act. But I won\u2019t say any more today. As I\u2019ve said, it\u2019s worthy of support, and I wish them all the best as they get this through the select committee process. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9b77df534b74281a11671d6e8dc62b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9b77df534b74281a11671d6e8dc62b8\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I have a confession to make, and that is that I am from Palmerston North and I am proud to be a Palmy girl. In fact, I went to Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School, which is the fantastic school that has been spoken about, and used to walk and cycle through Huia Street to the back of the school, which was the music department. So it is a real pleasure to take a call on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs members have noted, local bills are a bit rare. They are a bit unusual. And so I want to commend my colleague Tangi Utikere who went to intermediate school with me at the mighty Ross Intermediate back in the early 1990s. Even then, my colleague was called on to deliver all the thank-you speeches. So he was always bound for leadership. I just want to congratulate him on bringing this bill to the House on behalf of Palmerston North City Council. In fact, the previous version of this bill was introduced when my step father was the deputy mayor of Palmerston North, a role that Tangi Utikere also used to hold, while my colleague Ian McKelvie was the mayor of the neighbouring Manawat\u016B District Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo, look, I must admit when this bill came through, I said, \u201CPlease, can I speak about this bill?\u201D, because it\u2019s a great bill to talk about the place where I went to school. This is an ideal place for housing to go. It is right next to the fantastic Fitzherbert Park near the Lido swimming pool, the Manawat\u016B rose gardens, the Blue Moon Dairy at the BP station, which gives out fantastic ice creams\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e4d7f0625240d195e5305045c877d9\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your favourite flavour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd415bfa12864cd29344e86ddc82e9a6\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, goody goody gum drops. They were great at the Blue Moon Dairy. And look, it is an ideal place for housing and, having had a look through the proposal from the city council that is out for consultation, one of the things I note is that it could potentially build up to 80 apartments, and that will make an enormous difference\u2014an enormous difference\u2014to the housing needs in Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EPalmerston North and Nelson, where I am proud to be the MP, they have a lot of things in common. They have a lot of things that aren\u2019t in common: it\u2019s sunny in Nelson; it\u2019s quite rainy and windy in Palmerston North\u2014the rule is that if you\u2019re from Palmerston North, you\u2019re allowed to dis it, but no one else is. But look, it is a provincial centre that, like many of our provincial centres around New Zealand, has challenges around housing. The council has an opportunity as well to join the legislation that\u2019s currently going through the House as a tier 2 council just like Nelson. Earlier this year, along with colleagues, we visited some of the Palmerston North City Council flats that have just been redeveloped, and it was really good to see what the council had been able to do to take that land and actually develop it further and get more units on that bit of land. And it was wonderful to talk to the residents about the impact that had made on their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is an ideal piece of flat land. Palmerston North is flat. It\u2019s actually very easy to find these pockets of flat land and build. In Nelson, unfortunately, we have a different set of circumstances in that in the Nelson City area, it\u2019s actually very, very challenging to find flat land. And Nelson City Council has recently gone through a similar process where the council has consulted with the community to potentially sell some inner city land to K\u0101inga Ora where we may be able to build up to 200 units of both public housing and houses for first-home buyers. Thankfully, because that land wasn\u2019t in reserve land, Nelson City Council didn\u2019t have to bring an Act of Parliament like this one to the Parliament in order to amend the Reserves Act. So we have been lucky in that regard. But I do want to commend Palmerston North City Council for taking this initiative, for putting an opportunity for housing in one of the best parts of Palmerston North, right next to one of its very best schools, next to local schools, close to public transport, close to the inner city, close to\u2014well, they don\u2019t have a beach; they do have a fantastic river in the Manawat\u016B River. I think that this build will present an enormous opportunity for Palmerston North. I congratulate the city council, congratulate my colleague, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00226454875a51e84efca6e01d1f118b0da3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226454875a51e84efca6e01d1f118b0da3\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Thank you. The Green Party will be supporting the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill. I don\u2019t have the nostalgic memories that Rachel Boyack does and am not able to describe the area in quite such eloquent detail. So my research was looking at the location of the Huia Street Reserve on Google Earth and Google Maps, and noting that it is only five blocks from the square in Palmerston North and it\u2019s on quite a prominent intersection and that it is quite close to quite large areas of open space\u2014Ongley and Manawaroa parks\u2014and, also, the council has noted its proximity to the Victoria Esplanade and the Julia Wallace park. So the council has concluded that there is quite significant public open space within the vicinity that justifies this local bill. It will be, obviously, for the select committee to hear submissions, and I am pleased that it\u2019s going to the hard-working Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI would just note, though, that there has been quite a lot of community concern about the potential loss of the reserve. The Railway Land Action Group, Environment Network Manawat\u016B saw there as being value in the reserve remaining as open space and wanted to protect it as green space. I think Environment Network Manawat\u016B sees the potential for it to have things like a plant nursery, demonstrations of renewable energy, an eco-house, and hope that in determining the future of the land and its future uses, that the city council works with those community organisations and their aspirations to have areas where sustainability practices are able to be experienced and shown to the public and to find suitable land for that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EYes, the land has been vacant\u2014was formerly the Manawat\u016B bowling club, I understand\u2014and it\u2019s been vacant since 2005. The proposals that the council has made for potentially using it for housing noted that there were a range of options; not all of them were promoting the sort of medium- and high-density housing and variety of typologies that would be most suited to this site so close to the central city. So I hope that the council, when it does make a decision, does look to maximise the range of houses there, the range of affordability, and really does do medium- or high-density well and not just allow a developer to buy it and then turn it into something that\u2019s not really encouraging urban renewal and urban intensification. But that is a decision for the council; it is not for the Parliament. This bill is simply enabling the Palmerston North City Council to choose to sell it if it wishes to, because at the moment, as Tangi Utikere noted in his speech, it is held as reserve status, and there is not an ability to sell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to submissions on the bill and all the views that they will bring to bear. The Green Party supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u00229706ccf4ef0f43e0a085c3fe21b6cd18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229706ccf4ef0f43e0a085c3fe21b6cd18\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. It gives me great pleasure to rise and take this call on this really lovely little bill put forward by my colleague and friend in the class of 2020, Tangi Utikere. I have a confession to make, too: I was not raised in Palmerston North. In fact, I have been trying to dig back into my memories and I thought for a while there I had never been to Palmerston North and I was feeling deeply ashamed, but then I remembered the occasion of my uncle Simon\u2019s marriage to my aunty Jenny when I was about 11, which was marked\u2014and I\u2019m sure this is why I otherwise failed to remember the amazing rose garden of Palmerston North and its many beauties and treasures\u2014by the unfortunate fall of my little sister Georgie from a jungle gym in the camping ground we were all staying in for the wedding, when she broke her arm in two places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut that trauma aside, what we see here is the potential of the healing, the healing of the bones of the community, which is housing. I am\u2014no chuckle for my metaphor? Not a single chuckle for my metaphor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b0cffb084b438d89aeae0a072fc71b\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: I chuckled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd1a517ae16476aae39555247f88653\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: There was a chuckle\u2014thank you. What excites me about this bill is that here we have another town a little bit like mine, a similar size to my Whang\u0101rei, in some ways a similar situation in that it\u2019s a mix of the agricultural and the business and the innovation. They, of course, have major universities centred there, which we do not. But they do have this reputation for innovation, and I thought it\u2019s really interesting to see a council that is prepared to take the initiative in bringing forward land that is otherwise locked away from development for the purpose of housing. It is a difficult thing for a little local council to do, because they are exposed to the intensities of local reaction in a way that sometimes as MPs in this House we are not. So I really do commend the Palmerston North City Council for bringing this matter to this House\u2019s attention for, hopefully, a resolution where all aspects of its community will see this as a positive step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the possibilities for this bit of land, which, as my colleagues have already described, is surrounded by amenities, is surrounded from the wonderful rose-named Blue Moon Dairy through to parks and the open space that you need around any intensive development, the potential to take this block of land and turn it into a great place to live, but also\u2014and I\u2019m going to echo our colleague Eugenie Sage\u2014to look at using some medium density there so that we can house more of our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI spent a period living in the UK where my family of four kids, my husband, and me lived in a little two-up, two-down house in a dense college where you had a little quadrangle of flats full of children and their parents around green space, and it was one of the best ways we\u2019ve ever lived as a family. The ability to build community connections, to have that support from your neighbours, to have a real sense of place and of each other, it was a marvellous way to support each other as parents. There was no loneliness in a well-designed medium-density villagette. That, I hope, is the sort of thing that our councils up and down the land will look at taking forward, and they can do so now under the housing intensification plans that were brought forward by this House only this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo it is with excitement and hope that I look to see what happens with this bill and excitement and hope that I look to see what happens right through our provincial towns like mine, where I hope that our councils and our developers will take leadership and we\u2019ll imagine, together with their communities, a new way of housing that will look after our people as they have not been looked after for many years, but will do so in a way that is environmentally sustainable and builds good communities. I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc91250a633b4d56a3d0ea1490350a7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc91250a633b4d56a3d0ea1490350a7b\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E ACT supports this bill. The Palmerston North council have every right to use their land and their assets as they see fit. After all, they are community assets which the community has purchased and the council has a responsibility to manage them for the best outcome for the community. That\u2019s quite different from the way the Government sees three waters assets, which also are owned by communities but the Government has seen fit in that case to propose to take them from communities and install them in some remote corporation with an arcane and inefficient governance system. The benefits of that are not well understood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe core issue that this bill addresses is that local government really, really struggles to repurpose, re-allocate, and recycle land that was originally dedicated to one purpose, like a reserve\u2014in this case, a bowling club\u2014and forgive me, because I\u2019ve never been bowling and I\u2019ve certainly never been bowling at this club. I understand that for decades people enjoyed going bowling but what the Palmerston North council\u2019s identified is that this land would be better used for housing, and so because they are the local council and they are best placed to understand local issues, it\u2019s good that Parliament is trusting them to know what to do with their land and assets. And, again, it\u2019s a huge contrast with the way the Government has persecuted and prosecuted its three waters agenda against local government and their water assets. So I\u2019ll just let that one sink in for a moment for the members in the Government over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe reason that Palmerston North council wants to repurpose this land is because it has a higher value. They want to potentially re-zone it for housing, and we\u2019ve heard that up to 80 high-quality housing units may be developed on this site. The council has undergone a process. They\u2019ve undertaken a process of consultation with their community, and while there were many different proposals for how this land might be used, it\u2019s quite likely, given its location and its suitability, that a high-density housing subdivision and development is the best use for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EACT supports this bill because it is a locally elected council deciding what to do with its assets. We think that\u2019s a good idea and that the Government should leave councils alone to use their assets, as long as they\u2019re using them wisely, and support them. But we must ask: is it actually the role of councils, having repurposed the land through zoning, to then develop and build houses, own them and maintain them? The ACT Party would contend that councils don\u2019t necessarily have the skills to own and operate and maintain property and to act as landlords, to manage tenants, and to manage the maintenance of housing developments. That is well outside their remit and their core skillset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo the ACT Party wants to raise the issue of risk. Despite the fact that we support this bill, we would be very, very concerned if councils like Palmerston North council then took it upon themselves to begin to act as property developers, to compete with the private sector for the provision of homes and as property managers, and to engage in activities which, really, they have no business engaging in. They don\u2019t have the skills, they don\u2019t have the capacity, and while they might like to think they can, it\u2019s clear they can\u2019t. Community housing associations and community housing providers don\u2019t believe this Government can either, which is why they\u2019ve been asking K\u0101inga Ora and Housing New Zealand to hand over their assets to community housing providers to deliver housing in regions like the Manawat\u016B. So we would ask that the Government consider that in far more detail and listen to those people in communities who know what their communities need because they\u2019re local and they\u2019re close to those communities. ACT will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022017793f348db409b99dd6b50f4a8dbc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022017793f348db409b99dd6b50f4a8dbc4\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker, and thank you for this opportunity to speak on this local bill. And congratulations, Tangi Utikere, MP for Palmerston North. Who would have thought Palmerston North would get talked about so much in this House on this afternoon, but here we are chatting away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve said this before and I\u2019ll say it again, my 21 years living in New Plymouth and now being the MP for New Plymouth, Tangi Utikere and I have some similarities. We get confused quite regularly. I know we look very similar. But being MPs, often Palmerston North and New Plymouth do get mixed up, but they\u2019re both beautiful, wonderful cities. One has a mountain and a beautiful ocean; the other\u2019s Palmerston North. But it is a beautiful place and I really do love it. In fact, trying to sort of connect to Palmerston North, as people have this afternoon, my mother actually is from Foxton, and she used to bus every day to Palmerston North to go to Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School right next to this piece of land. So suddenly I am connected to this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I trust Mr Utikere. I trust him as he was a councillor and deputy mayor of Palmerston North City, so he knows this piece of land. He knows this piece of legislation. He knows what this local bill will do in terms of housing, in terms of development, in terms of easing some of the challenges that face the people of Palmerston North. And just like me as a local MP, we\u2019re doing work in New Plymouth around our housing situation, and our council is working hard with local providers, with iwi, and also within their own selves in terms of what land they have that potentially could be available for the development of houses to ensure that our growing beautiful cities continue to be beautiful and cared for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the question I do often ask is around green spaces, because the last thing we want is for our cities to become clogged and jammed and too full. So I was encouraged to hear Mr Utikere talk about the fact that around that space, around that green space, there\u2019s a mass of hectares of area that is already green space, is already beautiful, and so this will not impact on the beauty of Palmerston North City in its CBD area. I\u2019m also aware that it\u2019s been 16 years\u201416 years since anything happened on that land. So if we talk about green space and the loss of it, it\u2019s actually just sitting there. It\u2019s actually growing weeds, I\u2019m guessing. I did do the Google search and saw it. It is just sitting there and not being used. So therefore, let\u2019s use it and let\u2019s get on with it and let\u2019s ensure that some houses can be built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, what I like about a progressive council like Palmerston North City Council is that they are looking at all the options. They\u2019re not looking at just building what you always build, and they\u2019re not just looking at doing what\u2019s always been done; they\u2019re being innovative. Also, I\u2019m really proud of the Palmerston North City Council to see that the majority of councillors, when I was reading up about this, said that they need to take leadership in this space. They need to provide land for housing and showing how more homes could be provided by moving away from traditional-style subdivisions. So they realise that as a council they have a leadership role to play and they will play that. And this piece of legislation will ensure that that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also glad that democracy is a wonderful thing in how it works. And back in 2007, when the Hon Steve Maharey did bring this to the House, there were conversations had in the consultation space. There were concerns there hadn\u2019t been enough discussion, and so it was put on hold. And here we are again, 15 years, 14 years later, and those conversations have been had and this is ready for development and ready to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut my final thought around the Palmerston North City Council and, you know, feeling like I need to also encourage my local council as well\u2014but the fact is that this isn\u2019t just a fait accompli if this piece of legislation goes through, the plans are drawn, up go the houses; it actually has to go back through council through process. In a public meeting decisions will be made around what happens on this piece of land. So, again, democracy in action. Palmerston North City Council is doing some good things. They\u2019ll continue to do more good things. I congratulate Tangi Utikere, MP for Palmerston North, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6afc371f6df41ee8ca63b440cf62f8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6afc371f6df41ee8ca63b440cf62f8b\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to take a call on the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill. Now, it looks like Palmerston North has a good history of sending fine people to this House\u2014including yourself, Madam Speaker, and my good friend Tangi Utikere. I know that a lot of people have claimed to have something to do with Palmerston North, but the only thing I can claim is that I have visited Palmerston North quite a few times, and the last time being at the invitation of my good friend here, Tangi Utikere. The day that I spent was quite a significant day, and one of the things that we did was visit the bridge that is near to this reserve place called He Ara Kotahi, which is a beautiful bridge that the Government spent millions of dollars on. I thank my friend and the member for Palmerston North for his generous hospitality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ENow, the heart of this bill is the land that has been sitting there and not being able to do anything with, because it\u2019s been reserved until the Act of 1922. So, under this Act, this land cannot be sold, cannot be developed\u2014it\u2019s just sitting there\u2014and what a waste. So the council has stepped up and is being innovative and trying to do something about it that is, of course, supported from the local community. There are views on both sides, but those views will be neutralised when the bill goes through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EMy good friend Rachel Boyack mentioned how, if this bill passes, up to 80 apartments can be built on this land, and what a significant difference that\u2019s going to make in the Palmerston North community. There is no denying that we have got a housing crisis throughout the country, and Palmerston North might look better than some places, but it still has its own issues, and this is going to make a huge difference. The reserve was originally given to the city in 1876 by the Wellington provisional Government as a public park and recreation grounds. It\u2019s no secret that New Zealand has, like I said before, a serious housing crisis, and now, despite residential building consents increasing to levels seen only in 1970, the council plan has been limited by this Act, and the development of opportunities are being denied as a result. Evidence shows that removing overly restrictive planning rules leads to more affordable homes being built, and this is much needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to put my ethnic lens in and talk about the diversity and multiculturalism of Palmerston North. The times that I visited, I visited a lot of communities. It\u2019s a vibrant city, it\u2019s every day increasing\u2014people coming from different parts of the world as refugees, migrants, skilled migrants\u2014and families want to move to Palmerston North because it\u2019s alive, it\u2019s beautiful. So the council needs to be equipped with legislative powers to keep enriching the city and commit to diverse population growths. The potential development that would be able to go ahead with this minor amendment would make a dramatic and positive impact on Palmerston North. Whether it\u2019s to build houses or community centres or recreational places, this will be in the hands of the local decision makers, and the city will be able to grow and meet its special needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ESo now I commend, like many others did, the Palmerston North City Council for being very innovative and very creative by, I think, going against all odds, I think, because sometimes the land issue can be complex\u2014it can be difficult at times\u2014but the Palmerston North City Council is going above and beyond to resolve this issue. So, finally, I commend Tangi Utikere for again bringing yet another simple and small piece of legislation, but yet very significant and important, which is going to make a difference in his city that we all love to visit. I look forward to more invitations, and maybe even some dinners as a bribe so I can keep coming! I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34d91ea09ad48b695e1ef76238c2d5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34d91ea09ad48b695e1ef76238c2d5b\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to talk on the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill. I thank the member Tangi Utikere for bringing this local bill to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI, unlike many in this House, don\u2019t reside or come from Palmerston North, but I did, as part of my deep research for this short call today, do some research and find that it is the home of the Rugby Museum. Obviously, as a keen member of the parliamentary rugby team\u2014and I look across the House and I can see the very light-footed but very fast Kieran McAnulty, who plays on the wing for that team, and the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who\u2019s our fly-half and the second row of which I play with Mr O\u2019Connor\u2014I reflect that the Rugby Museum in Palmerston North is a key part of that city. But, of course, this bill is about a lovely reserve related to a part of our local government area and a reserve that is obviously going to be sold for development into housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ENational supports this bill. National stands up for councils and National stands for keeping the \u201Clocal\u201D in \u201Clocal government\u201D. National supports local councils and local governments to make their own decisions, and this is an example of a decision that is going to be able to be put into that council\u2019s hand to be able to do what will be a positive thing in regards to future housing development. National supports this bill as, obviously, not only will this create housing development but also it will create community facilities in developments for that local community, and that is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from prior speakers that this land has been vacant for nearly 15 years, so it seems sensible that that will transition back out. It\u2019s been through a thorough consultation process, and, again, I thank the member for providing detail around that. Of course, it will go through a select committee process as well to ensure that the issues are dealt through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI acknowledge there was some feedback that was in opposition to this bill, but as it has been through a reasonable degree, or a higher degree, of consultation, I think most of those issues have been mitigated, and I look forward to seeing this bill pass through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI lastly say that, actually, there are a number of examples of these types of bills around the country. I\u2019ve actually got one in my local electorate. So I look forward to the future when we can bring that to the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222061a7b5b2d9472a967ce51c9751bf91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222061a7b5b2d9472a967ce51c9751bf91\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on this local bill, the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill. I commend the member who has sponsored this bill, the local MP for Palmerston North, Tangi Utikere, a good mate of mine and a really hard-working MP. Look, I mean, we\u2019re all guilty of saying that about our colleagues from time to time, but in this instance it happens to be true. He is a very hard-working member of Parliament for Palmerston North. I say to the good people of Palmerston North, they are actually very fortunate to have Tangi as their MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI really like local bills. Not everybody understands, I don\u2019t believe, the difference between a local bill and a member\u2019s bill, and why local bills get precedence on a members\u2019 day against those bills where members have come up and put it in the ballot and had the luck to get it drawn out of the ballot and then have it debated on a member\u2019s bill. So normally you would imagine, considering the situation that we have here, that the council would be able to make this decision for themselves. But because the land in question happens to have been named in the Palmerston North Reserves Act 1922, the council requires an amendment to that or a bill to come through Parliament and be passed in order for them to make the decisions that they wish on this land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs other members have mentioned, that, of course, this isn\u2019t some roundabout way to try and subvert the process. This just allows the process to happen, because at the moment, the Palmerston North City Council can\u2019t do what they wish. They can\u2019t follow the process that they normally would. This bill and the work of Tangi Utikere\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b5d80ed04842acadda620d4f4314cd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! With apologies to the member, could members on my left, if they wish to have a conversation, could they be seated? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff088be4dd5d48a181ccbcf3d073680b\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t blame the members. I\u2019m just as excited about this bill as they are, and we\u2019re all very excited to see it passed. Absolutely. I mean, the point being here is that what the council have indicated that they hope to use this land for is housing. At the moment, I couldn\u2019t think of a better use for a piece of land. This isn\u2019t a controversial proposition. This isn\u2019t some reserve that\u2019s full of native bush or anything like that. This is a piece of land that currently isn\u2019t being used, and it hasn\u2019t been used since the local bowling club, I understand, closed down. The use of this land has been heavily restricted because of the situation that they find themselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt is a shame, I think, that some members have tried to use the debate on this bill to try and make some points about other things, such as the ACT member Simon Court raising three waters. I will point out to the member that the Palmerston North City Council actually supports three waters, so thank you for giving us the opportunity to raise that point in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe point here is that there are many members who have highlighted their love of Palmerston North. As a proud Mastertonian I\u2019m not all that fussed on Palmerston North. The people that live there are lovely, but we have a friendly rivalry. But what we do not want to stop is the opportunity to develop housing. There\u2019s been talk of up to 80 dwellings that could go on this site\u2014all different types, including apartments and medium density. Of course, that\u2019s exactly what all of us here in Parliament should be striving for\u2014the opportunity to see development, the opportunity to encourage houses being built wherever we have that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIndeed, just this week, we had the opportunity as members of Parliament to support a piece of legislation that would allow just that. I note that actually it was the ACT Party was the only party that voted against it. Despite proclaiming to be the party against regulations and against red tape and against Government interfering in things, it would appear that unless it comes to the situation where the voters of Epsom don\u2019t like it, then they change their values.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo what we have here is another opportunity for members of Parliament to actually get behind a straightforward, basic, simple piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00634e4929f435b9813c327fe4ae7ec\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well, imagine if Resource Management Act reforms were like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d754e351f9f241a7a4ef004486fec9b3\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: All that this would do is\u2014I might have struck a nerve. They haven\u2019t said much all day and now they\u2019re trying to shout it down. But the point remains, I hope that the ACT Party does vote for this bill, because what this bill will do is actually allow the council to start a process, and, I suspect, from what we\u2019ve heard tonight and from what the local MP Tangi Utikere has said, that the council will get community support to allow these houses to be built, but they can\u2019t even seek that support unless this bill gets the support of Parliament. Again, I commend the member for bringing it, working with his council, bringing a local bill forward, and I also commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00226b988532b2394faa8bdbe117427f2533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b988532b2394faa8bdbe117427f2533\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can I thank members from right across the House for their unwavering support, it seems, for this local bill. And, Madam Speaker, can I acknowledge you, because I know that you have a connection to Palmerston North, and you\u2019ll be pleased to know that I will be visiting your old high school, Freyberg High School, on Friday. Each time I do, your photo hangs on the wall in the reception area as one that they particularly like to reflect upon, so I acknowledge you and your connection to my fine city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to just reflect on the contributions from around the House this afternoon and to thank members. My colleague Rachel Boyack, obviously a local advocate for her former city, Palmerston North, and the connection with Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High, which is obviously extremely close to the piece of land that we are referring to, and also reflecting on her comments that the caucus committee around Government and local government were able to visit Palmerston North earlier in the year and were able to see the partnership opportunity that the Palmerston North City Council has in terms of a housing development at Papaioea Place. So that\u2019s a very strong connection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ECan I respond to the comments expressed by the Hon Eugenie Sage in that she is right: partnerships are very important, and what the select committee process does allow for is for the community and the council to demonstrate a level of support but also acknowledging that from a process perspective, this is about changing or lifting the designation of a piece of land so that the council will be in a flexible position to be able to do something differently if it so chooses to go down that particular path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ECan I also thank colleagues for their comments\u2014their reflections, I guess\u2014in that this piece of land is in close proximity to a number of amenities, a number of recreational spaces. The member for Rangit\u012Bkei referring to the rose garden, the Dugald Mackenzie Rose Garden, which, yes, did, as he suggests, celebrate the Pride of Palmy, which was actually a specific rose that was released recently in recognition of the city\u2019s 150th\u2014sesquicentennial\u2014anniversary. I have to say I\u2019ve got two of them growing in my garden and they\u2019re doing very, very well at the moment as well. But this is about an opportunity to support a council that is wishing to be progressive, wishing to be innovative, that is vibrant. Those are three words that I\u2019ve heard around the Parliament this afternoon. When we step back and have a look at what is proposed, we do need to appreciate that this will be subject to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EJust on that point, I know that Mr McKelvie was questioning why this may not be going to the Governance and Administration Committee. I have to say that, to be fair, it probably could go to that or it could go to Environment. I reflected back into 2007, when this bill was last before the Parliament, on where it went. Unfortunately, it\u2019s not helpful that it went to the Local Government and Environment Committee. So it did mean that there has to be a separation here, but I do think that the Environment Committee is the appropriate place, given that it\u2019s dealing with a reserve status of land. I do in advance, though, apologise to the hard-working members of the Environment Committee for yet another piece of important work that they will undertake, but I\u2019ll be with you as part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat I do want to indicate in closing is that this process will be subject to a public process. If this bill does make it through select committee, second reading, committee of the whole House, and then through to third reading, the council will still be required to make a decision at a future date, if they choose to, in a public forum. So this is not effectively indicating that it\u2019s a done deal; it\u2019s indicating that this is something that the council have approached me as the local member that they wish to pursue this, that the local bill avenue is the way in which local councils and territorial authorities seek to pursue that, and that there is a process that will form part and parcel of all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI repeat that I\u2019m satisfied that many of the hurdles that we have identified in the earlier contribution around, you know, engagement with Rangit\u0101ne but also the level of notification, the level of community engagement, and also the proximity to reserves within the area have satisfied me that those are issues that won\u2019t hold this up from a procedure or a process point of view. I\u2019m delighted to, if the Parliament is of a mind, effectively approve the first reading, see this through the select committee process. Again, I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a7bc2aad294715866005158b617794\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a7bc2aad294715866005158b617794\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Palmerston North Reserves Empowering Amendment Bill be considered by the Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b4fa7eefb38490d8f37aa53c3b3b792\u0022\u003ECanterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f988142b9244097875bd22cac4e7aa8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00222ced0f7e859a4ffd91b4f74397e558b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ced0f7e859a4ffd91b4f74397e558b5\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Aoraki maunga te paparahi o Te Wai Pounamu, ng\u0101 Papatipu R\u016Bnanga, Ng\u0101i Tahu wh\u0101nui, aku tini whanaunga, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Te Kaunihera Taiao ki Waitaha, n\u0101u i kawe nei i t\u0113nei pire ki te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you all in the House. To Aoraki, the foundation of the South Island, to the tribal authorities, to Ng\u0101i Tahu in general and to my many relatives, greetings to you. To Environment Canterbury, who brought this bill to this House, greetings, greetings, greetings one and all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am delighted to speak as the support member for this bill, the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill. This bill reinstates mana whenua representation on the Canterbury Regional Council in the form of two Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors from the 2022 local body elections. I want to acknowledge the Canterbury Regional Council, also known as Environment Canterbury, for bringing this bill to the House in collaboration with the Papatipu R\u016Bnanga of Ng\u0101i Tahu, who I know are tuning in from HQ there in \u014Ctautahi, so I mihi to them all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis arrangement of Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors was first put in place by the National Government in 2010, when it installed commissioners on the council. The introduction of Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors proved truly insightful, and I commend the National Party for its foresight in doing so. This House will recall a similar local bill that was introduced in April 2019, intended to continue the mana whenua representation on council prior to the 2019 local body elections, but unfortunately that was defeated at first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EDisappointed, but not discouraged, Environment Canterbury worked with the Papatipu R\u016Bnanga to explore other opportunities, and that led to the appointment of mana whenua Tumu Taiao\u2014mana whenua experts who were appointed in 2020 to advise councillors on the interests of mana whenua. However, the Tumu Taiao do not have the ability to vote at council meetings and, ultimately, legislative change is required to provide for the mana whenua voice at the council table. This bill reflects Environment Canterbury\u2019s commitment to securing Ng\u0101i Tahu representation. I commend Environment Canterbury\u2019s councillors for recognising the value in mana whenua representation and acknowledge that this benefits all ratepayers, not just Ng\u0101i Tahu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThere are two key differences between this local bill and that previously debated in the House, and these changes relate to M\u0101ori constituencies or wards and the issue of remuneration, which I\u2019ll briefly address. This bill explicitly provides that M\u0101ori wards are not prohibited, meaning that the council may still choose to introduce those in the future. However, M\u0101ori wards are not considered to amount to mana whenua representation, hence the promotion of this bill, which is very much a local solution for local issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIn terms of remuneration, this bill provides for the appointed Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors to be remunerated\u2014including allowances, expenses, and fees\u2014separately from the pool allocated by the Remuneration Authority, but otherwise on the same basis, given that the appointment of Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors will not reduce the workload of the existing elected councillors. As stated previously, this bill is a local solution for local issues and would simply reinstate what has previously worked exceptionally well. It is not a model that will work in all regions of Aotearoa New Zealand, but it reflects a tried and true arrangement in Canterbury that ensures the values and concerns of mana whenua are given full expression. Environment Canterbury is not urging this model be adopted by others, but it does ask this House that it be allowed to have a system that it believes is right for Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury is responsible for not only environmental outcomes, but also social, economic, and cultural outcomes in a 45,000 square kilometre area of the South Island. It is an area that includes many of New Zealand\u2019s iconic landscapes and majestic vistas, from north of Kaik\u014Dura to Waitaki in the South and inland as far as the Southern Alps, including the spectacular braided rivers and the mighty maunga Aoraki / Mount Cook. Ng\u0101i Tahu, of course, are the original people and kaitiaki of much of that area, having had an intimate connection with it since the ancient migrations of Waitaha, Ng\u0101ti M\u0101moe, and Ng\u0101i Tahu. Generations later, the sense of kaitiaki responsibility that Ng\u0101i Tahu has for the natural environment has not diminished. To the contrary, it remains vital and strong and increasingly relevant. Ng\u0101i Tahu is increasingly recognised as a strategic partner in the Canterbury region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIndeed, I submit Ng\u0101i Tahu should have a seat at the decision-making table. Opposition to this bill will likely include the apparent concerns that it\u2019s not acceptable to give Ng\u0101i Tahu special treatment\u2014and let me say to those people that this bill is not about special treatment; this bill is about ensuring there is enhanced representation in an age where a mana whenua voice is critical, in which Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors have previously demonstrated the value they have added to a range of Environment Canterbury\u2019s work. To those who say this is a special privilege for Ng\u0101i Tahu, I say: you\u2019re looking through the wrong lens. This bill is about recognising the responsibility that Ng\u0101i Tahu has as kaitiaki of the air, waters, land, and coast of the region and enabling them to perform that duty. That responsibility lies with Ng\u0101i Tahu directly, not with M\u0101ori generally. To those who say this bill will adversely impact on representation and democracy, I say this: this bill will ensure that more, not fewer voices will be heard at the council table, and because of that, it provides an enhanced additional level of representation informed by generations of knowledge and environmental awareness. There can only be advantage and value from such inclusiveness and mutual understanding. That is a fundamental element of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis nation has come a long way, but our journey\u2014of which this bill is now part\u2014is far from complete. Aotearoa New Zealand and the modern progressive nation we wish to be\u2014in our nation, a Te Ao M\u0101ori worldview is an essential part of decision making. Ng\u0101i Tahu representation on the council ensures a position of influence for mana whenua values, and it creates a governance structure that reflects the spirit and commitment to work together and is a big step forward toward true collaborative partnership between mana whenua and the council in the work it does. Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors have played a pivotal role in building the social capital and community ownership of solutions that underpin water and land management in Canterbury. They provided confidence to Papatipu R\u016Bnanga and wider tribal members that their voices, their environmental and societal vision and concerns, were heard at the highest level. The practical benefits were not least the greater efficiency in planning and consenting processes, reduced costs for both council and consent applicants, and the council\u2019s role in earthquake recovery. This representation contributed immeasurably to good outcomes in the region for the council, for its ratepayers, and even those visiting the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EFrom a council perspective, Environment Canterbury very clearly understands that mana whenua representation at a governance level is the most effective way to give effect to key statutory obligations under the Resource Management Act and the Local Government Act, and also as fellow New Zealanders wishing to contribute to a better and more inclusive New Zealand. As the famous Ng\u0101i Tahu saying is:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EM\u014D t\u0101tou, \u0101, m\u014D k\u0101 uri \u0101 muri ake nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EFor us and our children after us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis bill will ensure that the values and intergenerational perspective of Ng\u0101i Tahu are consistently heard at the council table, creating a more representative and effective local authority. As the member for Te Tai Tonga, covering the vast expanse of the Canterbury region, and a proud whakapapa member of Ng\u0101i Tahu myself, I support this modest request from the Canterbury Regional Council and I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002286f889f0cbe74792a43080ac42278d32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286f889f0cbe74792a43080ac42278d32\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002287e921a7d5284bb98b50917cd2f1a062\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287e921a7d5284bb98b50917cd2f1a062\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the National Party. It will be no surprise to this House that National will oppose this bill. We opposed it the last time this legislation came to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ECan I just acknowledge my parliamentary colleague Rino Tirikatene, a fantastic member of Parliament for Te Tai Tonga. I just acknowledge Ng\u0101i Tahu, a very powerful collective in Canterbury and \u014Ctautahi, and, as Mr Tirikatene mentioned, a strategic partner who we are very lucky to have, and a cornerstone of our history, a cornerstone of our present, and a cornerstone of our future ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to outline some key points about why the National Party does disagree with this bill. The first thing I\u2019d ask, probably procedurally, is why is it a local bill and why is this not a Government bill? I mean, the reason we are here again today with pretty much the same bill is that things have changed from the 52nd Parliament to now, the 53rd Parliament. Democracy has spoken and we are now in a one-party State, and the Labour Party are able to pass this bill without needing the support of any other parties. So that\u2019s why it does come back in from the 52nd Parliament to the 53rd Parliament, and it\u2019s very clear\u2014it\u2019s been introduced by a Labour member of Parliament\u2014that it will pass its first reading today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThere was the proposition put forward: \u201CWell, has National forgotten its history, because they appointed commissioners to ECan several years ago.\u201D Well, that\u2019s right. Environment Canterbury (ECan) was an appallingly performing regional council\u2014probably the lowest ranked in league tables in New Zealand\u2014and, quite rightly, the National Government of the day appointed all the commissioners. But I must remind the Labour Party that it was them who screamed black and blue that appointments were to be made, and they asked that democracy be restored. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat I would say in this bill is that if you do look at the wording\u2014because we are parliamentarians and we need to scrutinise the words in this bill\u2014what I disagree with in this bill is that in the commentary it says, \u201Cwishes to reinstate direct Ng\u0101i Tahu representation at Council level.\u201D I would argue there is representation at council level. Ng\u0101i Tahu do have observers in the council who will be part of the conversations now and providing input and, no doubt, influencing decisions. The issue here of this bill is that what it changes is it gives those observers voting rights, and there\u2019s something ironic there that we\u2019re not asking the people who will have a vote to be selected through a voting process. So, on this side of the House, we do stand on the principle of democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThere is no reason why Ng\u0101i Tahu representatives can\u2019t be elected on to ECan, and as, actually, Mr Tirikatene pointed out\u2014and I was actually going to point this out as well. It does astound me that in clause 11, it doesn\u2019t prevent the council going through the process of setting up M\u0101ori wards. So we will end up in a position of having 14 elected councillors plus two appointed from Ng\u0101i Tahu and, potentially, more from M\u0101ori wards. Why did it not exclude that in the law? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another point: why did it not reduce the number of elected councillors on ECan so that it was still capped at 14, reduce it to 12, and add the extra two appointees? There\u2019s a lot that doesn\u2019t actually add up here legislatively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is actually a radical change to local body electoral laws that have stood the test of time for 150 years. We do have also a quote in the commentary on the bill that says that if ECan does nothing, \u201Cit would deprive mana whenua of a voice at the Council table, and continue to deprive the Council of that direct input at the highest level.\u201D, but I do come back to the point that we have representation at the moment. This bill is about the ability for those current representatives to actually cast a vote, so they do have representation at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is supposed to be a local bill, and I\u2019d ask some of the Labour members of Parliament who are potentially going to be seeking a call on this local bill from Canterbury: I would like you to talk about the public consultation that has gone on with this bill. Many of you will know that there are a lot of people in Canterbury that are concerned that there was no public consultation, so why was there no public consultation? Even ECan said\u2014and I think it\u2019s passing the buck a bit\u2014\u201COh well, there\u2019ll be an ability to make a submission at the select committee hearing.\u201D Well, that\u2019s fine at a central government level, but where was the public consultation done at an ECan level? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting in the wording, and sometimes wording says a lot where I think people don\u2019t realise what they\u2019re saying when they write things. It says in the commentary, \u201CFor that reason, the Council prefers direct appointment\u201D as the option. Well, what does the public prefer? Well, we don\u2019t know, because there was no public consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo here we have a local bill that is not about representation. It\u2019s about enacting voting rights, but it\u2019s actually bypassing the democratic rule of being elected to come in to cast that vote on behalf of people, and then there was no consultation. I come back to my original point: why was it not introduced as a Government bill, and what precedent is this going to set? I think it\u2019s actually a very confused precedent for the rest of the country, and it actually says that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen I asked for and got some advice from the Clerk\u2019s Office on why it was a local bill\u2014because my belief was that you can\u2019t amend primary legislation with a local bill\u2014in fact, the answer was that the bill doesn\u2019t amend the Local Government Act 2002. Instead, it creates a new stand-alone local Act that requires the Local Government Act to be applied in certain ways. So what we\u2019re actually creating is a workaround, which I don\u2019t believe is fundamentally good law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELook, as I\u2019ve said, this bill was clearly going to be passed at its first reading. It\u2019s a bill that is back to the future, because it has been to the House before and it was defeated, and it poses a very good question: are we going to start appointing people at local body level that haven\u2019t sought or gone through the electoral process\u2014who haven\u2019t been elected? Where is the view of the public and where is the mandate of the public in this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is concerning. This will change 150 years of electoral law. We\u2019ll hear it today, won\u2019t we? We\u2019ll be told why and about the basic principle of election and democracy, and that is actually the fundamental point of what we are debating today. I don\u2019t think anyone disagrees with representation of Ng\u0101i Tahu on ECan, because they\u2019re there now. What we\u2019re talking about is: should those representatives have the ability for the right to vote? That poses the question of who, then, is appointing the representatives, and why shouldn\u2019t people who haven\u2019t been appointed by Ng\u0101i Tahu have the ability to stand up and put their hand up in an election? Why can\u2019t they do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThese are the questions that I\u2019m looking forward to hearing answers to from the contributions this afternoon, and I\u2019m also looking forward to hearing from people who will make submissions through the select committee process. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002266b62eddb98f4a2fad6677c2bca8cb3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266b62eddb98f4a2fad6677c2bca8cb3f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E What a sad, sad contribution from that member, Matt Doocey, given the democracy that they talk about. The previous Prime Minister John Key would have supported this. Actually, no, no. After John Key was Bill English\u2014he would have supported this. Chris Finlayson would have supported this. But sadly we\u2019ve got this new National Party, who all of a sudden have forgotten their history, their background, and now are putting up idiotic questions about why would the M\u0101oris who go to the council want to speak? Why do they want to speak? They could just sit there and observe things. Brilliant question! Wonderful question! Because M\u0101ori deserve an opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3ac3ec0cf5412fa356d90998a07e5b\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7d501977e7456e8a0777c7cd9308e8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s unusual to interrupt another member, but I will put the leave, and if the House agrees to it, then you can. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? No you can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022560eceb77cac4a05b554c1687760d1e1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Thank you very much. It\u2019s sad. The guilt is getting to the opposite side. See, this is a party who is fooling\u2014along with this useless lot in ACT over here. This is what New Zealanders have to be aware of is what\u2019s happening in the National Party with the Luxon takeover. The line is, \u201COh, you know, we do support you M\u0101oris, even though you\u2019re separatists.\u201D That\u2019s the new line. \u201CBut \u2018separatists\u2019 is not racist\u201D, but I looked up the definition of \u201Cseparatist\u201D, and I found South Africa and apartheid. And I think everybody knows that in South Africa that\u2019s called racism, but not according to Mr Luxon and the new National Party. This all loving, caring week where Mr Luxon said he doesn\u2019t support the M\u0101ori Health Authority, but that\u2019s not being racist; that\u2019s just being separatist. Someone explain to Mr Luxon what racism means. Certainly that previous member won\u2019t be able to after that gobbledygook bloody speech. What a disgraceful speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENow what Ng\u0101i Tahu\u2014I\u2019m a bit different to my cordial brother behind me, Rino Tirikatene. I want Ng\u0101i Tahu to listen and hang their heads in shame when they hear this lot in National\u2014when they hear this lot in National\u2014because National supported Ng\u0101i Tahu between 2016 and 2019, and it was well-supported by people like John Key and other members in the National Party. I\u2019ll be very clear: this reinstatement in terms of rights is a reaffirmation of tino rangatiratanga in terms of Ng\u0101i Tahu. What it does is it acknowledges Ng\u0101i Tahu has mana over their lands and affirms their special association in terms of this particular kaupapa. They have this right, right across the Ng\u0101i Tahu, don\u2019t they, Rino, in terms of Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, the Department of Conservation, all recognise the special relationship that Ng\u0101i Tahu have. So for the Opposition to raise separatism issues is disgraceful. What the National Party does not understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea89db15f87a480dad20cdfef69b0f4b\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2cdda038dca4d8383017180820485b6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t laugh, whoever you are. What the National Party doesn\u2019t understand is that M\u0101ori have a special partnership. M\u0101ori are the Crown\u2019s partner. You need to read that. And when you are the Crown\u2019s partner, you get opportunities like this. And this is recognition from the Crown. The National Party used to do this; they used to remember this. Do you remember, who was your\u2014it was Doug Graham. He came in. He\u2019d be ashamed of this National Party lot now\u2014wouldn\u2019t have a clue. So as a Crown partner, you get an opportunity to exercise this, and this bill gives us an opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ECan I say finally, in the last 30 or 40 seconds, that democracy is also about recognising indigenous people and an indigenous voice\u2014something that the National Party lot and the right-wing fascists on the right here, the ACT Party, have forgotten and don\u2019t understand, because you want to suppress, oppress, and depress M\u0101ori. Understand that if you invite M\u0101ori into the tent, that\u2019s an integral part\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d9bab3387341c09b655cd923d503eb\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022038128d5198f43479230a3587c56ee37\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baff97215ab34000b7088e5038117c00\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of democracy. Get used to that\u2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022935027d667234207b4a2e21b9128ece5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Point of order here, the Hon Willie Jackson. When I say \u201COrder!\u201D, you sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd399a7937446c684d37f7c2f001f60\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: I take offence at being accused of being a right-wing fascist. I request that the member withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c6d100c1874bb1b99fa82a824fd893\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: I was talking about ACT. That wasn\u2019t for you; it was for ACT.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef2d3ee896c47ffa59ab78a5fb8b0a6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I was distracted when that happened. The Hon Willie Jackson will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef32a9e48b8d4f5ea015eabeef33efac\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: No. Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c33f795f48214c3da32754be9b75c5a6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. I\u2019m not taking a point of order. You either do it or you\u2019ll be leaving the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fae18de5884f5bb0b00fa90f759536\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: I won\u2019t be doing it, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5ff3fcfe35d4ae8bd27a2239708f24a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well you\u2019ll be leaving\u2014you must leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c83f9bbc354a129a3769deddb40988\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, now that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s speech has concluded\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e49bbdf34e469a8fef1484d73dcf4f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019m not continuing until the Hon Willie Jackson leaves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227595a2b88ed647c29ab046f5f50243cf\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t apologise to people I didn\u2019t insult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa617afea1ba409f8eece52aa20e27a3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Come back. If you don\u2019t come back, I\u2019m going to name you. Come back now. E noho. I have made a ruling that you must obey. There is no discussion, and it\u2019s certainly out of order to be interjecting on your way out. You do not want to be named. A Minister of the Government has not been named for a very long time. The Hon Willie Jackson will leave the debating chamber now, and no comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226e9888bfc28a4768a7e9e124e5f1678f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e9888bfc28a4768a7e9e124e5f1678f\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Now that the contribution from the Hon Willie Jackson has concluded, if Matt Doocey wished to seek leave to make his personal explanation, that would not be opposed by this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022874e461bb25a43aab44482567263e24b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022874e461bb25a43aab44482567263e24b\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd65f36d42f4edcb9480ebe006ddfd3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the speech has concluded, you don\u2019t need leave for that. You may make that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c91a015da2a4ef9857083a660174b36\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The point I was trying to make is Willie Jackson said that I didn\u2019t want M\u0101ori or Ng\u0101i Tahu representatives to speak. I never said that in my speech. I said the issue was about the ability for those current representatives\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022416b2bc2e659415bba440298a90df220\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That is not a personal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be1524bc48294218922ab2e2e2739a92\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well it is because he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227762d7a98e4f4457a38c51b5e250307f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m on my feet. That is not a personal explanation; that is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce217083b5d744a0b65d6f5bb03f01e4\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Labour Minister made a claim that was, if you look at the Hansard, factually incorrect. I did not say that. It was about the voting rights, not the ability for representatives to speak. So I believe I do have the ability, under a personal explanation, to state my case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208490a0422a5458aa695c9f21cf9b5a9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have made the ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022412632909fe649ecb8e8ba102b93b116\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412632909fe649ecb8e8ba102b93b116\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Tuatahi ake, ka tika me mihi ki a koutou a Ng\u0101i Tahu me ng\u0101 maunga, ng\u0101 awa, ng\u0101 whenua o Te Wai Pounamu, kei te mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E[Mr Speaker, greetings to you. Greetings, everyone. Firstly, it is appropriate that I acknowledge Ng\u0101i Tahu and the mountains, rivers and land of the South Island of New Zealand, greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really pleased to take a short call on the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill. It\u2019s somewhat ironic that we have the National Party opposing this bill and talking about democracy, because, of course, it was the National Party that got rid of 14 elected councillors on Environment Canterbury in 2010 and did not return democracy to Canterbury for nine long years. I was one of those councillors that got unceremoniously removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is supporting this bill because my experience of Canterbury Regional Council was that it had a very long way to go in implementing the Treaty partnership. One of the few good things that came out of the appointment of commissioners in Canterbury was the place of Ng\u0101i Tahu and its two representatives around that council table and the greater recognition that that forced the council to have of things M\u0101ori and of Te Tiriti. I can remember, in 2007, having to argue strongly for the first representative who had expertise in tikanga M\u0101ori to be appointed to the hearings panel on the Waitaki River and that being opposed by other councillors despite the importance of the Waitaki River to Ng\u0101i Tahu because it rises in the headwaters of Aoraki\u2014their t\u016Bpuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo councils around this motu have got a long way to go in implementing Te Tiriti. This bill, by ensuring that there is a Ng\u0101i Tahu voice at the table, will help move towards a better Treaty partnership. It will help ensure that there is a strong voice for Ng\u0101i Tahu about the awa, the maunga, the whenua of Te Wai Pounamu, which constitutes much of their takiw\u0101. This bill is ensuring that Ng\u0101i Tahu can choose who those two representatives are. It does not diminish democracy; it improves democracy because, as Rino Tirikatene noted, it is increasing the number of councillors around the table from 14 to 16. It does not affect the remuneration of the existing councillors who are elected. It does not affect their responsibilities. It simply means that there are two representatives that Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu will choose that will ensure that there is a loud voice. And our country, and Canterbury, will be better for that in ensuring that that voice is there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAt the moment, those two Tumu Taiao are only advisers. They do not have the same status as councillors. This bill will ensure that they have that equal status. It will bring Te Tiriti alive, and it will be good for the mahi of the regional council, in ensuring that its management of land, of waters, of the coast, of soils is actually a deeper management, with a deeper recognition of the things that are important in our country of Aotearoa, and that is having Te Tiriti as our founding constitutional document. The Green Party supports this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00225ebfe3fc92f54c29ae2f77da5d8a9c60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ebfe3fc92f54c29ae2f77da5d8a9c60\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Mr Speaker, I just want to raise with you Speakers\u2019 ruling 144/4 and would ask that, at a later date, you might reflect on that ruling. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9dd351df2214d7a8d7668b90d9480ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9dd351df2214d7a8d7668b90d9480ee\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will indeed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002240d39f80160848c589836d4c6d73c931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240d39f80160848c589836d4c6d73c931\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and speak on this bill. I was surprised when Mr Doocey said we shouldn\u2019t change this piece of law because the way local government has worked in Canterbury for the past 150 years has been fine. I could hear some of my Ng\u0101i Tahu friends choke. I think that he should perhaps go and read the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act and the Crown apology appended to it. It will become pretty readily apparent that things haven\u2019t worked fine for many.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, I mean, I think this bill begs the question of what it means to be mana whenua. Is it just someone who we invite to give a karakia or a p\u014Dwhiri from time to time or is it someone we engage in meaningful discussion, who we have actually around the table on an equal footing? And Ng\u0101i Tahu do occupy a very special place in Canterbury and the South Island. Environment Canterbury is in a unique position of Ng\u0101i Tahu being the only iwi. So when they do want to engage with mana whenua, there is only one iwi to do that with. So the fact of actually having them around the table, two members that have not only a voice but the same deliberative powers and voting powers, is really, really important. And it\u2019s not for us, if we\u2019re going to have those members of Ng\u0101i Tahu around the table, to say how they\u2019re selected. That\u2019s for Ng\u0101i Tahu. That\u2019s why an appointment process is an entirely appropriate mechanism. And Christchurch and Canterbury are in a unique and privileged position to be able to engage in this way with Ng\u0101i Tahu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo whilst the last 150 years might not have been great in terms of our relationships with Ng\u0101i Tahu, I look forward to a future when this bill will improve it significantly. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022073cf3b2374a4eabbb9de0b498565cb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022073cf3b2374a4eabbb9de0b498565cb6\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The ACT Party opposes this bill. It seeks to add up to two unelected representatives to the Canterbury Regional Council, and it conflicts directly with ACT\u2019s principles that only democratically elected representatives should serve on councils and in Parliament. Environment Canterbury\u2014or ECan, Canterbury Regional Council\u2014already has two mana whenua appointees which give advice to council on tikanga to help them with decision making. That appears to be a better way to actually address some of the issues that councils face when they\u2019re looking at planning, consenting, long-term plans, and where and how to provide community services for the people that live in that district. That\u2019s why this bill won\u2019t actually help address any of those issues. What it will do is add two extra individuals to the 14-person council, now 16; it will dilute democratic representation; it will essentially override basic democratic principles; it will result in unelected members having the same voting powers as elected members; and it will increase costs to the Canterbury ratepayers. For the ACT Party, that is sufficient reason to oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut I want to respond to some of the things that the Hon Willie Jackson said before he departed from the House. Mr Jackson has illustrated the problem with this approach. If the Government proposes to allocate some rights to special classes of people because of who their grandparents were or because of their lineage, that takes us back thousands of years, back to the feudal history that New Zealanders who came here by sailing ship, by steamship, and, more recently, by aeroplane left behind in the countries that they left to come to New Zealand for a better life. And for the benefit of those members who support this bill, I want to bring that back to why we\u2019re here. It\u2019s to make a better New Zealand. We won\u2019t achieve that by allocating special rights to special classes of people. That is a form of feudalism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard about partnership approaches. That\u2019s all well and good. I\u2019ve been involved in construction project alliances where the client and the stakeholders and people get together and they agree that if you work out a certain course, then more benefits get shared amongst the groups that participate. They all have skin in the game. Those participants in construction alliances are appointed to represent their group\u2019s interests. Now, the difference between that and a democratically elected council is that voters get to choose who represents them. This bill removes the right of voters to choose two of what will become 16 members, even though there are already provisions in the law, in a law rushed through under urgency by this Government, to create M\u0101ori wards so that individuals who are nominated and qualified can stand to be elected in those M\u0101ori wards\u2014and the Canterbury Regional Council has the ability to do that. But instead, they have come and they\u2019ve asked for this local bill to be proposed, essentially to create two additional seats for individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, we can understand why Mr Jackson thinks that\u2019s a good idea, because he\u2019s an old-school class warrior who believes that the pie is only so big and it should be carved up and reallocated according to his vision and to those in power. The ACT Party fundamentally rejects that approach. We do not believe that that is helpful to New Zealanders. We do not believe that the people of Canterbury would appreciate that approach, and this Government should not allow this bill to proceed because it divides New Zealanders rather than brings them together, allocates special rights and privileges to those that should only be available to elected representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002212fe9dde4b154535bc8894a98f6d2d1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212fe9dde4b154535bc8894a98f6d2d1c\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata): \u003C/span\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call on this piece of legislation. In Canterbury we\u2019re innovative, we\u2019re resourceful, we\u2019re good at coming up with local solutions to fix local issues, and that is simply what this piece of legislation does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation, or this proposed piece of legislation, is a local bill, a local piece of legislation that Environment Canterbury\u2014we call them ECan\u2014have asked for themselves. It simply puts into permanency something that was put in place under the previous National Government in 2010\u2014something that has actually worked very, very well since then. It simply puts it into permanency so that these people, Ng\u0101i Tahu, the mana whenua, the kaitiaki of the land who have close ties, bonds, and connections with the land, have the ability to have a seat at the table and hence voting rights. They\u2019re in addition to the current 14 councillors. They are not replacing any councillors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI think that this is a fantastic piece of legislation. Local solutions for local issues. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u0022238e635dd67340e48d5c4982fb2c3ac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022238e635dd67340e48d5c4982fb2c3ac2\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Mr Speaker We stand here this evening to ensure, I hope, with this bill, if it passes, that we have direct Ng\u0101i Tahu representation at the council level because direct representation is not what we currently have at Environment Canterbury. We have two wonderful Tumu Taiao\u2014they are mana whenua experts\u2014but they do not have decision-making powers; they have no vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EOne of the great joys of being an immigrant to Aotearoa has been learning about Te Tiriti, learning more about and gaining a greater understanding of the ongoing impacts of colonisation, the rights of tangata whenua, and on how we have gradually been moving towards a genuine partnership as outlined in Te Tiriti\u2014a partnership that isn\u2019t a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D but an absolute obligation; and you cannot work in partnership with any group that has been given a seat but no vote, no voice. It isn\u2019t good enough, it doesn\u2019t work for Canterbury, and that\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022b92c1a32308c48cbb25ea1639f24ba4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b92c1a32308c48cbb25ea1639f24ba4f\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I, along with my colleagues, also rise to speak in opposition to the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill. This is a case of history trying to\u2014I would hazard a guess, unsuccessfully\u2014repeat itself. This House has been here before. As has been well canvassed already, we have a bill here that seeks to reinstate direct Ng\u0101i Tahu representation to the Canterbury Regional Council\u2014or ECan as we call it back home\u2014after the 2016 Act was repealed three years later. In 2019, when this bill first appeared before the House, it didn\u2019t pass its first reading, and there is very good reason for that. Thank goodness for the Opposition of New Zealand First, ACT, and National. It was a bad bill back then. It is a bad bill now, setting a bad precedent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EMy colleague Gerry Brownlee, who I\u2019m actually\u2014very ably, I might add\u2014stepping in for right now; he was supposed to be taking this call. He said to this House in 2019 that it is a local bill that is trying to make changes that would be included in primary legislation. Despite all of the very emotional rhetoric and mud being slung over the House this afternoon, that is the reason that we are objecting to this. It is a bad bill. The Labour Party actually should have paid attention to Mr Brownlee back then, because it would not have set it on a course to make the same mistake that it\u2019s about to make today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe other issue that we take exception with is that this bill is a result of ECan using its democratically elected powers to undemocratically force a change on weak Canterbury ratepayers without our consent. Not one of us ratepayers have been consulted on this. Using the process outlined in this bill, Ng\u0101i Tahu would confirm two appointees in a process that has not required democratic input. Those two appointees, as we\u2019ve discussed, would sit alongside a democratically elected council with full voting rights. I ask the Labour Party, the Government, to consider treating Canterbury ratepayers with a little more respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m on that subject, the contributions we have heard from all sides of the House this afternoon have been patronising in the extreme\u2014absolutely patronising. Why can the Government not consider that an iwi as successful and as powerful as Ng\u0101i Tahu, who will undoubtedly have people of exceptional experience, skill set, calibre, are able to stand on their own two feet, able to stand for local body election on their own credentials, without having to be hand-held and shepherded into the council chamber on the back of this bill. I think the people of Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu deserve more respect from the Government than this bill. It is disrespectful of the vast talent and depth within the organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ETo be clear, the importance of mana whenua representation at all levels of political decision-making is not lost on us in the National Party. It might pay the Government to remember the advances that M\u0101oridom have made under former National Governments. Might I remind the Government of the 60 Treaty settlements that were negotiated under the National Government. We are very clear that mana whenua have a critical role in decision making and policy making and lawmaking in this country, but it is not through an appointment process such as being put forward in this bill by this Government. The fact of the matter is there is already mana whenua representation at the council table, thanks to the two Tumu Taiao roles which are very ably filled by Iaean Cranwell and Yvette Couch-Lewis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe National Party opposes this bill again because it is no better than the bill that came before this House in 2019. It is a local bill trying to reform primary legislation. It is being undemocratically forced on the people of Canterbury, and National opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u002229b7e30084674dab9b441cce623de17b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229b7e30084674dab9b441cce623de17b\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, and thank you for the privilege to speak on the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI want to just say it\u2019s a good day because this really does set the benchmark for all local councils to look at how they enact the Treaty partnership. Fundamentally, it\u2019s good for that reason alone. Obviously, there has been some work done, and that entity has decided that in terms of recognising how to best move forward with Ng\u0101i Tahu, this is the best way forward. I often get asked how is it that local government can have a functioning, truly authentic, and genuine partnership with mana whenua M\u0101ori. This is something that people will look at and say, \u201CWe want that too.\u201D So this is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI know in my own patch on R\u0113kohu, Wharekauri, the Chatham Islands, this very thing where you have imi, iwi, looking at how to enact governance with tauiwi on an island that big, this will be looked at carefully. Too often you have advisers or others that act in a way where they don\u2019t have mana whenua authority or authentication to act in a way where they are speaking truly for mana whenua M\u0101ori. Then you get confusion because some, like myself, who aren\u2019t from Wellington when I was elected on to Wellington city\u2014I\u2019m not from here\u2014but I certainly made it clear that having a Treaty partnership enacted through something like this would have been ideal, solely because they could have spoken as true mana whenua representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. This is a good day, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022cec72742fa5a480e88674ec84f9eaa78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cec72742fa5a480e88674ec84f9eaa78\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the right to reply to conclude this debate. What a debate it has been. We have certainly canvassed a wide range of views around the House. But I am very proud of this bill. I am proud of being a sponsor of this bill and for the work of Environment Canterbury, along with Ng\u0101i Tahu, to put back in place a proven successful arrangement. I am saddened but not surprised at the opposition from the National Party and the ACT Party. However, I do want to respond to just a few points that were raised. Why is this a local bill? Well, as I said in my speech, this is a bespoke arrangement which is unique to Environment Canterbury, cannot really be duplicated anywhere else beyond the South Island, I would imagine, because of the unique arrangement of having a single iwi which is the Treaty partner over such a vast geographic area which encompasses ECan\u2014Environment Canterbury. So that\u2019s why it\u2019s a local bill. But it seeks to modify those pieces of legislation specifically for that region\u2014that\u2019s why it\u2019s a local bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe opposed the actions of the National Government at the time, but we never opposed the appointment of mana whenua representatives to Environment Canterbury. In fact, I signalled in one of my speeches, I remember, what will happen when the arrangement ends and how can we ensure that this endures, and this is what we\u2019re doing right now. We\u2019re ensuring that the arrangement of Ng\u0101i Tahu councillors endures through the passage of this local bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t really want to go into the remarks around feudalism and the likes from the ACT Party, suffice to say that the foundation of Aotearoa is built on a Treaty foundation, built on the bicultural reach between the iwi, between the chiefs, and the Crown. That is the foundation, and that is the guiding beacon which this bill actually represents, because Ng\u0101i Tahu representation\u2014why? Because Ng\u0101i Tahu is the Treaty partner. Ng\u0101i Tahu aren\u2019t gaining any great advantage. They are only getting what the Treaty guarantees them, and Environment Canterbury understands that. They have put that into this bill. It\u2019s been proven successful in the past, and they\u2019re just reactivating it through the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the passion which the Hon Willie Jackson committed to this debate. He did actually cross the line, and he was admonished for that and disciplined, but I do acknowledge that, you know, he is a powerful advocate as the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. You will not take that out of Willie\u2014Mr Jackson, Mr Jackson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627b6ddfcad74c69b281550b44dfaab0\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: And you will always cross the line!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c6d0c1b2128431790468f2f8171823f\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, te r\u0101rangi toa\u2014he stands that front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut I want to acknowledge all of the contributions from around the House, in particular Eugenie Sage, an experienced former councillor on Environment Canterbury, and I thank the Green Party for their support of this legislation. I acknowledge them and that they get it\u2014they get it. We get it on this side of the House. Mr Brownlee, yes, I also recall from the last bill that we debated in this House\u2014you know, we didn\u2019t have the numbers on that day, but I said to Mr Brownlee that we would be back. I said that like the big mountain Aoraki, it stands tall and it endures. It stands tall in the day and in the night, and we\u2019re back again, looming large with this momentous bill, and I\u2019m really looking forward to it going to select committee, getting full consideration and examination from members of the public, who are welcome to submit. I thank the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, who will be ushering the bill through that very important process. So I look forward to contributing into that process as well, and I welcome Mr Doocey to do so as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut this is a timely bill that we\u2019re looking to reactivate, and I\u2019m thoroughly excited that we can have this first reading and take it to the next step. I\u2019m really looking forward to that, and so I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225ce3260b27c74e7fb5467171df55606c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000517\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000518\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022331653aa33474423a5efabd331cced4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022331653aa33474423a5efabd331cced4d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Canterbury Regional Council (Ng\u0101i Tahu Representation) Bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022176df0450070429885dd3fa403b50d00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022176df0450070429885dd3fa403b50d00\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, it has come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab55325ffb6a43a3af2624e419f33c9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab55325ffb6a43a3af2624e419f33c9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. I\u2019m going to ask the Government Whips, before I ask the Serjeant-at-Arms, to inquire of where Mr Jackson is and require him to come the House immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252855e8bf52147dbb232bfe1279968a1\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s over in Huxley\u2019s with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ee9cd274b5441c19d47ff0b737dad21\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a023861d2de4125ab52b6a4578ff686\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s over in Huxley\u2019s. I saw him over in Huxley\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c6772146dc34c30a93c645a36af8b57\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I still can\u2019t hear him, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f40c81def445ffb705949097617e44\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want me to give him a call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fda24f6da774565ab52d0c9f402123f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re going to get on with the business of the House while we\u2019re waiting for him. I call on members\u2019 order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c376d6debe444d4280eb5f0763bad8ae\u0022\u003ERights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022200c01cc16e742c2ae6bfe62edd8d436\u0022\u003EConsideration of Report of Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002266e15fbee4c24762be4ed189f8ee0644\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266e15fbee4c24762be4ed189f8ee0644\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Justice Committee on the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002279c09620b28446dda733e69f9ee70e74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279c09620b28446dda733e69f9ee70e74\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendments recommended by the Justice Committee be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00226493bda024dc4ad49f9a8c011b75256f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226493bda024dc4ad49f9a8c011b75256f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the bill now proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4a692f5c42c4ca2b2c8343d9a22384f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4a692f5c42c4ca2b2c8343d9a22384f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In accordance with a determination of the Business Committee this bill is set down for committee stage forthwith. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2b851e7a9844b1d9aab949ac881b6f7\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000541\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 9 June.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262fb67c5ff6d432089a4982aaeb26e81\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003, and Schedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002214a1725eb157481b9f9ab0c1c400da69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a1725eb157481b9f9ab0c1c400da69\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee on the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. We come first, members, to the debate on Part 1, this is the debates on clauses 3 to 7B, and Schedule 1\u2014\u201CAmendments to the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00225041e38538f4435c97f4c83745c0cbd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225041e38538f4435c97f4c83745c0cbd6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There seems to be a little procedural change that we weren\u2019t expecting, so apologies to the committee. I just want to put on record the changes that were made at the Justice Committee, so that there is some context in terms of how this debate will go for the rest of the session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill has had a start of a committee of the whole House. It was on 1 July 2020 referred to the Justice Committee. It had unanimous support from all parties in Parliament, and there was a significant amount of work by the select committee and the determination of the chair that we could have a bill that all parties would continue to support. I want to put on record my thanks to the Justice Committee chair, Ginny Andersen, for the professional and very deliberate way in which she chaired the select committee to ensure that we had time to consider the issues during the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOn 16 April 2021, it was reported back to the House with extensive amendments agreed by the select committee. They were unanimously accepted in the second reading on 12 May. However, on 24 May, the Chief Justice wrote to the Attorney-General raising concerns about the implications of some of the amendments that had been agreed. One of the key areas raised was the amended wording of the proposed verdict. I tabled Supplementary Order Paper 52 at the time, in response to some of the Chief Justice\u2019s concerns. However, on 30 June, the bill was referred back to the select committee with the instruction that the committee consider the Chief Justice\u2019s advice on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe requested advice on the original verdict\u2014the verdict the select committee chose and the verdict used in New South Wales. The bill as introduced said, and I quote, \u201Cthe acts or omissions are proven but the defendant is not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. The select committee amended the verdict to \u201Cproven but insane\u201D. So we sought officials\u2019 advice on both the use of either of those options and the New South Wales verdict of \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible\u201D. Officials provided advice on three other alternatives. We have landed on a compromise, and that is in the bill that we are debating in the committee of the whole House today, and that says \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D, which meets the needs of all parties: victims, those who are facing charges, the judiciary, and Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EMy thanks to officials in the Parliamentary Counsel Office for getting this done so promptly, and for the unanimous cooperation of the members of the select committee, who worked so hard to get to a position that we could all agree with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002200b74c3686a4493abcd2b874411e5dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200b74c3686a4493abcd2b874411e5dd7\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on the bill. Look, I\u2019d like to, firstly, acknowledge the Hon Louise Upston as the member in charge of the bill for bringing such a weighty issue before this Parliament, one that\u2019s taken a considerable amount of work from members from across both sides of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also briefly acknowledge the submitters. I think that during the select committee stage of the bill, I heard probably some of the most harrowing and difficult stories from those submitters who came forward to share their stories, and I would like to put it on the record to acknowledge that effort and how difficult that was\u2014for those family members of victims as well. I\u2019d like to also generally acknowledge victims of crime. This is a bill that\u2019s very much attempted to give greater justice to the victims of crime and to carve out greater space within the criminal justice system for the rights of victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill is an ambitious one, as it\u2019s taken on two very complex areas that I can see that the debate going forward in the House will cover, and I\u2019d like to outline those two areas. The first being balancing the rights of victims alongside meeting the needs of the legal requirements of the criminal justice system and doing that in a way that meets those needs, but also provides for victims in the courtroom space. Secondly, it also strikes a balance between the mental health needs of the offender and the needs of the victim and their family; improving the interaction between our mental health system and also our criminal justice system, which is no easy feat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo as we\u2019ve heard already from the member in charge of the bill, this bill has already received a second reading. An important recap is to recap the legislative process to date as the passage of the bill has not been a typical one. The critical part of this bill has been the verdict that is read out in the courtroom. So the initial attempt was to address the verdict, which was read out as \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D and those words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D were the words that were so hurtful to victims and families of victims who were having to hear \u201Cnot guilty\u201D. When the committee initially heard those concerns of submitters, we took advice and attempted to strike that balance between the needs of victims and the requirements of law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAfter the committee had reported back to the House, as already outlined, the Chief Justice wrote to the Attorney-General highlighting concerns regarding changing to the definition the committee had arrived at, and that was \u201Cproven but insane\u201D. In particular, there was real concern raised around using that word \u201Cproven\u201D, and that goes right to the heart of requirements for mens rea and actus reus in order for a crime to be proven. The Chief Justice emphasised the fundamental legal principle underpinning the finding of not guilty on account of insanity, and that is that the defendant by definition is not guilty because of that mental element, that mens rea, and the element of the offence had not, in fact, been proven. On the other hand, the central purpose of the bill outlined by the member is to avoid the victim and their family hearing the words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D. So this was a difficult balancing act, and at this point the bill was referred back to the select committee for a second time to have another crack at striking that balance and getting that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo where the committee has arrived at is \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. While that\u2019s a bit of a mouthful, the committee feels and has had good advice that that lands in terms of meeting those legal requirements for the criminal process, as well as sitting well with victims of crime and those families who will be sitting in the courtroom when the process is heard. While it\u2019s been a difficult balancing act, I think we\u2019ve got there in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge too the role of Simon Bridges, who was the lead spokesperson from National, who actually took his legal background and put it to good use by trying to assist in finding that middle road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe committee considered a number of options, and what we\u2019ve really arrived at now is we\u2019ve completed that consideration and it\u2019s really pleasing to see that the committee has reached a unanimous position on the way forward. So this is where we are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to continue on further if possible and continue here. I would like to continue by outlining why Labour supports the bill. I think it\u2019s important to have that there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022205bfc6be0d14b5d92b17371608f9ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022205bfc6be0d14b5d92b17371608f9ce8\u0022\u003E KIERAN McANULTY (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I apologise for interrupting the debate, but I seek leave to report progress and sit again presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c9022c1bf6b4a048c64d1c6d227a255\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c9022c1bf6b4a048c64d1c6d227a255\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill and reports progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002264bc0eafe93149cea164636e3ecc762e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264bc0eafe93149cea164636e3ecc762e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Chair moves accordingly\u2014and that is that the committee has reported progress on the bill and has sought leave to sit again presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e0059b3c444a1084804926e13e88df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. I should have said that earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224984726dfe0d421987fd9072efc80370\u0022\u003EINTERVENTIONS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022352b1018d9084b048e1f24ed6556c534\u0022\u003EUnparliamentary Language\u2014Apology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022a71fbc133a734cd2be9643a7995afc23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a71fbc133a734cd2be9643a7995afc23\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I was kicked out of the House earlier\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b18eafb90e44679851cb2e6036f47c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The member will take his mask off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29d4b13f572459583080cccb9fe0ae5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Apologies again, Mr Speaker. I was kicked out of the House earlier today, or left the House earlier today, and on reflection I want to offer the House an apology for the unparliamentary language that I used at the time. So I apologise and withdraw for the statement that I made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b640f9c318b84985a32ae5d019eea935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b640f9c318b84985a32ae5d019eea935\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I declare the House in committee for consideration, for further consideration, of the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299dd348ebfd94ec993b14fd71e41e48e\u0022\u003ERights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002220737bc45f1a4fd19c9fd7b0b0193132\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbe06d7a7a254b9db3c57944f598645b\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003, and Schedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225e73ba2266bc416eb2c450ccd7de416e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e73ba2266bc416eb2c450ccd7de416e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in Committee on the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. The House was considering Part 1, and the question was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ca89ca1cd34f0b88476bf5968a6b1e\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263fab9a5639640c1b5364d3a400be114\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Ginny Andersen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002251b8965405d14702a720e1645b8ceb5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251b8965405d14702a720e1645b8ceb5d\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In terms of outlining the main, core reasons why we are supporting the bill, which is important to outline in this debate, it reflects the same values that Labour has in those areas of victims\u2019 rights. It promotes justice, it promotes transparency, and it also respects survivors of crime and also their communities. I think it\u2019s important to note that this legislation cannot undo or even mitigate the things people have experienced and those victims of crime have experienced. However, we do hope that we can alleviate some of the most difficult elements dealing with this complex and challenging area of our legal system for people in the future, and to note that the aim of this bill is to better align the treatment of victims of offenders found legally insane with victims of regular offenders in the justice system, which has been a difficult but worthwhile task that\u2019s been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government supports legislation that respects the rights and the needs of victims of crime and also, at that same time, keeps the public safe. This bill is consistent with our work to improve victims\u2019 experience of the justice system. It is also of utmost importance that survivors of crime are not revictimised through the justice process, while the offenders\u2019 rights and obligations are also met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to outline some of the key changes in the bill that\u2019ve been undertaken by its two trips to the select committee and to underline some of the work that\u2019s been taken in Parts 1, 2, and 3 of the bill. In terms of Part 1 of the bill, the amendments to criminal procedures, that in particular looks at those around mental health and trying to create that alignment between the criminal justice system and also those needs of people who have mental health concerns. Under Part 1, some of those issues relate to the \u201CReport by the Director of Mental Health on the defendant\u2019s continued detention\u201D and also \u201CWhen victims must be notified of impending decisions under section 31 or 33\u201D, and that\u2019s covered off under clause 7A in Part 1 of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019ve also discussed, already covered, that using the new verdict will assist in doing this, there\u2019s also consequences following finding of a new verdict, and one of the Chief Justice\u2019s concerns was that the bill would be unclear about what the consequences of a finding of the proposed verdict would actually be. So the committee therefore unanimously recommended adding a new section, which is 20(1)(c), to provide that a judge must acquit a defendant on account of their insanity if this finding was made. This would be consistent with the consequences following the Act\u2019s current verdict of \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D and would also reflect the language currently used in describing the consequences of the verdict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended providing proposed new section 20(1)(b), that in finding that an act was \u201Cproven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D, a judge is required also to explain that meaning of the finding to the defendant, which is an important change in making our court processes more transparent, more understandable, not only to those who are before the court but those who are supporting a victim through the process. This change is designed to help ensure that the defendant and others in the courtroom understand the verdict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAlso, there\u2019s been some really good improvements in terms of what the bill aims to do. The bill, as already stated, aims to ensure the equivalent treatment of victims of a legally insane offender with other victims of crime. It also seeks to develop a more victim-centred approach when the court is considering cases involving defendants found unfit to stand trial or acquitted on account of insanity. So the key ways under Part 1 that that is done is through renaming the verdict of \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D to \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. [Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227d86a79eed254348be81e81e752be715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d86a79eed254348be81e81e752be715\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e93ef6e8a4748468ca405558774d291\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e93ef6e8a4748468ca405558774d291\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa3d2ff1d8e44a49939a5bdbae55dcc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa3d2ff1d8e44a49939a5bdbae55dcc7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So I want to just refer to the only Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that is now on the table related to this bill. For those who are just watching this debate now, in the prior committee of the whole House there were SOPs\u2014No. 40, which has been withdrawn and that is now replaced by No. 98\u2014and I just wanted to explain a couple of those changes. They are very much cross-referencing changes that are picked up as part of the drafting process. So they\u2019re very technical changes, and also in one, with the change to clause 8B, new section 50, it is to ensure consistency with the wording of the Mental Health Act. So I just wanted to put on record to clarify for the House that SOP 42 no longer exists, it\u2019s been replaced with 98. What was SOP 52 in the prior committee stage had been incorporated when the bill went back to the select committee, as outlined by the chair Ginny Andersen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u002284915252d023452480dc13479e19ef5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284915252d023452480dc13479e19ef5a\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real joy to stand up and dig in with the Hon Louise Upston, into this bill because this is an awesome little bill. As I understand it, with my very minor experience in this Chamber, it\u2019s had a very unusual process, as my colleague Ginny Andersen, the chair of the committee, and the Hon Louise Upston have both begun to describe. I\u2019m sure that that we will have more of this because it\u2019s been a fascinating thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut I do want to just take this moment because there is real weight and significance to this matter. There is tremendous detail to go through, and it is important that we explain it in that detail that only a committee stage gives us the opportunity to do. But I do want to start by talking about the philosophic significance of this\u2014and the Hon Louise Upston, I want to dig in a little bit to that with you tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI come from a background in law and, particularly, in the rights of victims and the place of victims in the adversarial court. When I began that work, to my shame, it\u2019s\u2014well, to my shame, not to my shame at all. What an awful ageist thing to do. Over 25 years ago, when I started work looking at the plight of victims in our justice system, what was really the case when I dug into that, victims do not have a place in the traditional criminal adversarial system\u2014they simply do not. They are tools of the lawyers and the judges to be used for the evidence that can be got from them and then set aside. That is the fundamental problem with the position of victims in an adversarial system, which is essentially that dialectic discussion between the prosecution and the defence. In that system a victim really has no place except as cannon fodder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIt is very different, if you look across the ditch, from the originator of the adversarial system in England. If you look across to France and you see the inquisitorial system, and you look there, and what you see is a system that is dominated by the State whose interest is in setting right the situation, the imbalance, that has arisen by the commission or the allegation of a crime. For that system the victim actually does have an integral place in the system and a part to play and a role and a right to stand, as we say in this Chamber, and as they say in courthouses across the land. There a victim has a lawyer. A victim has a right to make submissions. A victim has a right to a say in a sentence in a very, very different way to the small and cautious way in which we allow our victims into court to have a say on the disposition of the case. So it seems to me, from the outset, when I got to grips with this bill, that it is actually putting a pou in the sand and advancing one more step along something that I know is very dear to this Government\u2019s heart, which is to integrate victims into the criminal justice system to give them the respect and the voice that they have so lacked for so very, very long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWhen I began all those years ago\u2014in fact, I think it\u2019s closer to 30 than 25 when I try to do my addition, but my brain may be trying to ignore the fact. When I began as a 21-year-old it was common to hear victims talk about their sense of total disempowerment, their sense of a total lack of voice, and the fact that the trial was a re-victimisation. These things were common parlance, and I was really saddened when I heard those same experiences. And the Hon Louise Upston, you will know this better than I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2461928e2e432195d2992b39bc1bd1\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the question\u2014what\u2019s the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228997b10c6e124f4a83855ebf60aae071\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m getting there, but it\u2019s really important to set the scene, Ms Pugh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85876145677470b890a5918f6c5c0bd\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Very waffly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb6f50c980d43fca36fcb9e519ff336\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thirty years of academia, give me a chance. I\u2019ve got a long history here. [Bell rung] Thank you. Thirty years of academia cannot be put to bed in five minutes. I say that to the Opposition. It may put the rest of you to bed, but not me. So my point is, and to quote the great Ellen, \u201CI do have one.\u201D When we heard the experiences of those victims, back in the beginning of this process, the same pain that we hear from victims in a rape trial or in a sex trial was coming from them. That intense feeling of disenfranchisement and disempowerment in what was their experience. That intense feeling that they had walked into an arena where it should be, essentially, about their experience and their reality, and it was not. It was about them as tools of a system that was not focused on them at all. Therefore, it really struck me, the title you gave your bill, Ms Upston. Because rights for victims is almost a contradiction in terms in the adversarial system, as it has been traditionally conceived. Yet it is a real mark in the ground as to where you were going with that, and it is something where we see\u2014you know, later this week, I hope we will be considering the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill. I see this bill as of a piece with the work that we will be doing on the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill. It is again about the place of and the respect given to victims or complainants in the process. It is about moving aside those two bullies, those two domineering people, the prosecutor and the defence, moving them aside and admitting into the frame that third person, the victim or complainant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWhen I just go back to the inquisitorial system in France, it is sometimes thought that any mention of an inquisitorial system or the inquisitorial system might have advantages over ours is some intrinsic attack upon the rights of the defendant. When one sees the words \u201Crights of victims\u201D that is often seen by criminal defence or traditional criminal lawyers as an implicit attack on the rights of the defendant. But I think what you\u2019re demonstrating here, Ms Upston, and what the work that we have here, that we did so painstakingly and with such passion and nerdy determination, particularly, if I may say so, from some of these slightly newer members of the Justice Committee. That level of nerdy attention was justified because we are doing something significant here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut when I say that the inquisitorial system is often seen as a threat to the adversarial system, that the idea of inserting victims as players into the system with rights of standing of their own is seen as a threat, I really think that that seriously underestimates the capacity and the elasticity of the adversarial system because\u2014and here comes the serious nerdism\u2014it has been said over the last 20 years in research on the inquisitorial versus the adversarial system that, actually, they\u2019re not opposed. They exist on a continuum. So you often see elements of the inquisitorial system creeping into the adversarial system, but also elements of the adversarial system creep the other way too. I think it\u2019s really important to put that frame around it. When we talk about rights for victims, which 10 years ago would have been seen as a slap in the face, an existential threat to our criminal justice system\u2014and I am not putting that too highly because I know criminal defence lawyers\u2014when you come from that perspective, I think it is really important to put that debate into context, and say \u201CThis is not only a big step forward for our system but it is not a threat to our system.\u201D Our system is endlessly elastic provided we stick to those fundamentals of the protection of the defendant\u2019s human rights and dignity and the accurate fact finding. Once we know that we are holding those two intrinsic quests that make up a trial, once we know we have given those due respect, I think the trial is virtually, infinitely malleable, whether it is in terms of the procedures you use, whether you use pre-recording or whatever, or whether you allow a victim to have a place in the trial and to state their truth and to give their voice and to have rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo, Ms Upston, I\u2019m inviting you, one very deep nerd to another, to stand and address us on why you named this bill the way you did, because I think it is important, and I think you should say it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002207ae77f4ffed48b285dc804124fc0eb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207ae77f4ffed48b285dc804124fc0eb5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I will take up that member\u2019s\u2014Emily Henderson\u2019s\u2014invitation. My intention, and I\u2019ve spoken about it in the earlier readings of this bill, but it was the genesis of how this came about, actually, and it\u2019s very much a people bill. It was based on a constituent coming into my electorate office in 2010 and raising an issue, raising his experience of the way he found the justice system as a victim when his brother had been killed by someone who was found to be insane at the time, and the clear difference between how he was treated, because the offender became a special patient in the health system as opposed to a criminal in the justice system. Therefore, the experience for him as a victim was so vastly different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI think some of the frustration of Graeme Moyle and his family was that at that time there was a move to strengthen victims\u2019 rights in a number of areas. So as the previous National Government and now the Labour Government have continued the mantle to improve the victims\u2019 experience of the justice system, and as Ginny Andersen spoke about, have victims at the heart of the justice system, the expectation grew and the gap became wider in terms of his experience of what happened for him, and the very fact that when you have an offender that is found to be insane, it\u2019s a very different pathway and a very unequal pathway. That\u2019s very much what we heard from other submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo in terms of Part 1\u2014I know we are wandering a little bit, Madam Chair, if you can indulge me for a moment\u2014the rights for victims of insane offenders was very deliberately chosen based on a very real human experience which I felt, as a member of Parliament, was wrong. I\u2019m immensely grateful for this House for the time and effort that has gone in during a select committee process where we honour those victims and give them greater rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b31c4bfacebe4f21918018d435279a0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b31c4bfacebe4f21918018d435279a0c\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a call in relation to this very important bill. I would like to thank the member, Louise Upston, as a number of my colleagues have done, on her really important work in this area. But also, as a newer\u2014maybe not so new\u2014member of the Justice Committee, I really was extremely impressed with the collegiality across the committee on what was actually quite a difficult and complex area of the law and one that I think we spent the appropriate amount of time on, because these weren\u2019t easy decisions at all. They require a balancing of rights, both of the experience of the victims, but also the criminal justice process itself and the rights of the accused, which strays into the mental health space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EMy colleague mentioned that she had worked in the criminal justice space; for me, a lot of my work has been on the defence side. And I do think when you\u2019ve been doing that for a number of years, sometimes it can be difficult to consider the space of victims\u2019 rights. It was about two months ago when I met the Chief Victims Advisor at a men\u2019s rights activist meeting, and it was really that discussion and then reading her report from 2019, which called for several changes to be made in the space of victims\u2019 rights, that I really saw the process we were going through a select committee quite differently. It is something else to sit in that room and listen to the stories we did. So I\u2019d also thank the member not just for the important changes but for giving those families a space to be heard. I think one of the things I learnt early on is that it\u2019s not always just the families; it\u2019s people who witnessed some of these atrocious acts, including colleagues in employment settings, including members of the public as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThis is a complex area of the law and one of the changes that we looked at\u2014actually several times; there were three iterations\u2014was the verdict itself. So I just want to spend a bit of time and then perhaps ask a question on that. So as some have traversed, after the bill received its original second reading on 12 May, the Chief Justice wrote to the Attorney-General on behalf of the bench stating that they had concerns and then it was referred back to select committee. So the three iterations that we had\u2014the first one included a reference to \u201Cacts and omissions\u201D and also included a reference to the \u201Cdefendant\u201D. The second, when it came back to the House, initially included the words \u201Cproven but insane\u201D and where we are now as we\u2019ve revisited the definition is a unanimous position on the way forward, which I do think is extraordinary, but also does justice to the balance that we need to strike in this place. And that is the wording that the \u201Cact [is] proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo what I felt we did in many ways is we actually revisited where the member was initially with that section. To me, it gives that same sense of highlighting the act while making it clear that both elements of the offence hadn\u2019t been met. I mean, I would like to just have that assurance\u2014the words from the member in terms of her sense of whether that did bring us back to where she initially saw that piece of the bill, because I do think that that is the most significant change to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe second question I would ask is there were a number of submitters who questioned whether if we changed the verdict that would also bring a lack of clarity to those in the courtroom. So we\u2019re not just talking about the victims and the families and others who might have witnessed the act in this case but we\u2019re also really talking about potential jurors and, of course, the accused themselves. So if the member would, I would very much love to hear her thoughts on whether we have landed\u2014not exactly, but, in fact, very close to the intention of where the original verdict clause was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022afcfc44fac0f4ee4bb16fe3e8eaf4727\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afcfc44fac0f4ee4bb16fe3e8eaf4727\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002234d78460562e42a982fc97ca2d665ad4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234d78460562e42a982fc97ca2d665ad4\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations to the member Louise Upston for getting the bill this far. There\u2019s a couple of questions I really invite you to talk to\u2014and I saw her about to get to her feet before\u2014and I guess the first is this, and it\u2019s about the kind of importance of the concept of mens rea as an ingredient of guilt. The phraseology chosen of \u201Cnot criminally responsible\u201D is clearly dispensing with the idea of \u201Cnot guilty\u201D, and it seems to be right there in the nub of this bill that we are putting insane people into a kind of different category. The law\u2019s long recognised that the actus reus and the mens rea are critical ingredients of guilt, and that if you don\u2019t have either of those components\u2014the intention that\u2019s necessary and the critical thinking skills necessary to form that intention\u2014then you are not guilty. I\u2019m really asking whether that undermines the concept of mens rea as an ingredient of guilt itself, of the responsibility from which flows criminal conviction and the sentencing that follows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI guess the other thing I\u2019d just point out, and it may be for a later part: the bill\u2019s called the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill; this is not about offenders at all. It\u2019s about insane accuseds. They never become offenders. They didn\u2019t commit the offence. They are not criminally responsible. Once again, we\u2019ve got a person here who is seriously mentally unwell if they don\u2019t have the ability to form the intention to commit a crime, and yet the bill tags them as offenders when they are not offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I understand the Justice Committee recommended that in reaching a verdict, as set out in this bill, the judge is to explain what \u201Cnot criminally responsible by reason of insanity\u201D means and how that interplays. I\u2019d be interested in the thoughts of the member. I think it\u2019s really important because, I\u2019m sure, the courts will look at these debates to understand what that might entail. What would, in particular, the victim want to know about the verdict? What kind of equipment do we want to give the judiciary in terms of the intention of this House when they come to say to a victim, \u201CThis person isn\u2019t going to jail, isn\u2019t going to be punished, and the reason is they don\u2019t have the mental capacity to have committed this crime. They are not guilty. They are not offenders. They are not criminally responsible. But that does not diminish the fact that you have suffered sometimes some very grievous, you know, acts at the hands of these people.\u201D But I do think, in striking this balance\u2014and I know the member\u2019s tried desperately hard to strike the right balance\u2014we\u2019ve got to be cautious that whilst we can say a verdict which is, you know, \u201Cnot criminally responsible\u201D, we steer away from then saying, \u201CThe person who is the accused is an offender.\u201D, because the verdict itself declares that they\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be interested in your views on mens rea, and also in your views as to whether it\u2019s appropriate to identify the accused person as an offender and as to what we might be asking of the courts in explaining the verdict to the court and, in particular, to the victim. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u00221e2e3d34816142f2adfedef24481ee0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e2e3d34816142f2adfedef24481ee0d\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So, just continuing from where I was, in terms of the focus on court processes, I would very much like to hear from the member about the balancing of rights within the courtroom but also clarity and how the new addition of the new section 20, I believe it is, makes that clear for all parties in the courtroom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThere was another question, I think, for me, that came up as we were hearing submissions, and I\u2019ll refer back again to the Chief Victims Advisor report that she wrote back in 2019, where she made some quite broad comments about the rights of victims and that they stemmed from the UN Declaration of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and Abuse of Power. She actually went and interviewed a number of victims and included some really alarming quotes from some of them about their experiences. One thing I was quite interested in was how she defined victims. This is an issue that came up in select committee because of the nature of the submissions that we heard from many families. And I know that the Hon Dr Nick Smith was very interested in this particular aspect of the bill as well, because it\u2019s a question of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo we heard from some individuals that, where an individual is declared unfit to stand trial in the first place, the individuals who had suffered harm from an act that they had committed would go without justice\u2014whereas, if this bill were to come into force without extending to that group of people individuals who had suffered harm for someone who was declared to have committed the acts but didn\u2019t have the actus reus, they would have some space within the courtroom; they would be able to read a victim impact statement. I don\u2019t recall whether it was Dr Smith or not, but one of the issues that came up was whether, if you had an individual who was declared unfit to stand trial at the time that they had been charged but subsequently, after receiving an appropriate amount of treatment through mental health services, were deemed to be sufficiently capable\u2014how would they fit into this sort of regime, and are our laws sufficient to ensure that that person is then tried and those individuals do also have the same ability to provide statements in court?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be curious also, in addition to my earlier question about court processes and clarity, just to hear from the member about whether the intended scope that she started out with when she introduced this bill\u2014whether she considered expanding it at any stage when hearing from those individuals. I thought that was quite a novel argument that was made at select committee. And, if not, why not, and does she see this as a gap in the law or that it\u2019s adequately dealt with by current legal processes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ead463e0710943aeb4dbd10312ce58c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ead463e0710943aeb4dbd10312ce58c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Emily Henderson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef4c21848cc04806a335292738095590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef4c21848cc04806a335292738095590\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de609e9400b453cbfd12f2edd2c59fe\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: My question for the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833ee28d3aa94d07adcd6a07cc77d01d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91be49ccb044051b463bae913b791fc\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I thought you said\u2014Henderson and Andersen almost sound the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e07bb216e23849dfb4257141fe83e3d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e07bb216e23849dfb4257141fe83e3d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Emily Henderson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u00229e7e62f9a6b647809d1da985d93d4da7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e7e62f9a6b647809d1da985d93d4da7\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E I won!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI want to really respond to and perhaps riff on what my colleague Professor Duncan Webb was talking about before, because I think, again, this is something that\u2014he\u2019s right, lawyers and judges are going to go back and they\u2019re going to look at these things and they\u2019re going to wonder what the heck we were on about. So I think it is important that we talk about this. When we look at Part 1 and we look at clause 3A, which is amending the interpretation section\u2014that\u2019s the first point at which, as you\u2019ll remember, Ms Upston, that we introduced our new verdict, which, as all of the previous speakers have alluded to, caused us quite a bit of angst. It caused quite a few people quite a bit of angst because, again, this is something that really goes to the heart of what you were trying to do, I think, but also what the criminal justice system\u2014long-held tenets of the criminal justice system. And, in particular, as my colleague, Mr Webb\u2014Professor Webb, as I\u2019m now going to call him for the rest of the evening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbb1c8bc207d4febb1b3fb9038e385e1\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc5b99fa133144c5b98ca5fc9e8fe73c\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t do that\u2014was saying, it goes to that mens rea / actus reus aspect. I really would like you to spend some time talking to us about your thoughts about how we got to that definition because, as my colleague Vanushi Walters said, it\u2019s actually very close to your original. In the end, after all that, we circled back after all that discussion. But for me, \u201Cact proven\u201D\u2014and \u201Cproven\u201D was the word that became a real hiccup because proven suggests that the crime was committed, and for a crime to be committed, of course, you\u2019ve got to have both those things: the actus reus, the act, and you\u2019ve got to have the mental intention. A person who is insane cannot form that mental intention and traditionally, by that very nature, that is it, they are not an offender. They can be accused, but they cannot be convicted of the offence in the traditional way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut this was of immense emotional importance, as I recall. This was\u2014I remember Ms Upston saying, I remember the submitters saying that once you hear \u201Cnot guilty\u201D, you don\u2019t hear anything else. You don\u2019t take in insanity, you don\u2019t take in the explanations. So our challenge was to craft a verdict which made it both clear to the justice system that we did not consider this person could be convicted of a crime, but also to the victim that we recognise that something was done to them and it was this person who did it. So we had to balance that. We had to balance the validation of that experience\u2014\u201CYes, this person did this thing to you.\u201D\u2014with the criminal law\u2019s inability to, I guess, bring that reality home to the person because they don\u2019t fit the definition, they don\u2019t fit our system. So what we did was to say the act is proven, the actus reus has occurred, but the person is not criminally responsible on account of insanity. Meaning, as we saw it, I think, insanity has rendered them\u2014the mens rea element has gone so they are not criminally responsible, but they still did it, they just don\u2019t have the mens rea. Therefore, that is where we came to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ENow, later on, when we get to that part, I would really like to get you to dig into the fact that we did then go and change the definition of \u201Coffender\u201D and \u201Coffence\u201D to include for the purposes of the Victims Rights Act, in order to do that other very important thing, which was to synchronise the rights of the victim of an ordinary offender and the victim of someone who is insane. In order to be able to synchronise their notice provisions and all of that, we had to change the definition of what an offender is for the purposes of the Victims\u2019 Rights Act. So that\u2019s, I think, where the title comes from also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo I wonder if you would be prepared to just talk about that interplay of factors: the need for notice and the need to have that trickle down in the practical sphere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022574c26f3717f4edd9e8aab825dc46c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022574c26f3717f4edd9e8aab825dc46c74\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. My question to the member is in relation to Part 1, clause 7A, and there\u2019s several new sections in there that are really in and around the notification to the victim. This is a part of the bill that hasn\u2019t been discussed so much. We focused a lot on that definition and getting that balance between the needs of victims and the needs of the criminal justice system, but what we haven\u2019t discussed\u2014and my question to the member of the likely impacts of these changes\u2014is in and around the Justice Committee examining section 50 of the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act, which provides that the Minister of Health may grant leave of absence with a special patient from a hospital into the community, quite often subject to conditions specified in the section. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo we decided that the bill should require that victims of persons found insane be notified when the special patient is being considered for leave of absence. And I know there were specific examples provided by the member herself and also by submitters to the committee in and around some really negative circumstances where there had been victims of crime who then, without purpose or planning, had bumped into the alleged or the offender in particular instances, and the perverse circumstances and the negative impacts upon the victim that that might have. So we decided the bill should require that victims of persons found insane be notified when a special patient is being considered for leave of absence. This is really important. So this would, in the committee\u2019s view, prepare the victim for the possibility of the patient getting greater autonomy or being released into the community. So the need was highlighted, as I said, through several submitters who raised this and who noted that victims felt like they were not even considered to be relevant to this process as it stood, and could even be surprised to find out retroactively that the offender had been, in fact, granted leave, and even granted leave in close proximity to the residence of the victim and their family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the fact is that the victim is now provided, through this course of legislation, with the right to submit their view to the Minister when the offender is being considered for a leave of absence. So alongside this amendment in this section, there is also the view that the victim has the right to make a submission when the offender is being considered for leave of absence. And I think this is a really important change that the committee has taken through. So I\u2019m interested to hear the member\u2019s views in terms of the impacts upon this for victims\u2019 rights. When the committee looked into this area\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299be9cfbd1254fbf8279e17f004b4e24\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Can I just ask the member to come back to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022789c5ee5ce7b4da0958fa0e5114c7ddd\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure, sure. Part 1 is rights for victims under clause 7A, new section 33C: the \u201CRight of victims to make submissions on proposed change of status\u201D, and that\u2019s on page 1 of the bill in Part 1. So that is covered in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo in doing so, the intent is to give victims a voice where they are currently being silenced, and to give them the opportunity to bring to the attention of those making the decision any considerations that might help them apply, where practical, leave conditions that minimise the chances of a person found insane and the victim coming into contact, which could have some quite awful experiences for that victim to be then re-victimised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s important to note that the intent of this change is not to impose on the clinical decision making in this process, but it is really to provide greater transparency in the system and also for those people who have been impacted upon the crime to be kept abreast of what changes are happening. It goes back to that key point made right at the beginning of this debate: that trying to get a good coincidence\u2014the talking points between the criminal justice system and the mental health system to make sure that where there is an overlap there, that there\u2019s an ability for those two systems to interact in a way that takes into account the needs of the offender, who may have ongoing mental health treatment needs within the health system, but also the rights of the victim, who needs to be protected through the criminal justice process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really interested to hear from the member in charge of the bill how some of those more fundamental changes in terms of victim notification and also giving the victim the right to submit their view to the Minister will impact in the wider ambit of improving the rights of victims through the criminal justice process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2aae9eb97224324bbb96b7f9d611e55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2aae9eb97224324bbb96b7f9d611e55\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. A number of the contributions from the Labour members that were on the select committee, I think, have answered their own questions, because we did come to agreement around these very difficult balances. So the thing I want to put back on the record is the clear policy intent in the drafting of this bill in my name. That is very simply that in these cases the hearing of the finding \u201Cnot guilty\u201D is just so appalling for the victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to explain why, because it\u2019s very connected to why the use of the word \u201Cproven\u201D in the finding was so critical. Yes, I accept the select committee tussled with it for quite some time, both the first time and the second time, and the \u201Cproven\u201D is really important. I\u2019m not going to traverse the details of the cases, because I know that the victims, some of them, shared their stories for the very first time. So I want to honour them by not going into the detail of what occurred. But the reality is there is zero doubt about who committed the act. Yes, they were found not criminally responsible because they were found to be insane at the time that the act or offence occurred. But the very simple reality is that no one else is being looked for. And in the most harsh examples\u2014and I refer to my constituent, the death of his brother, there was only one person who committed the act that took his brother\u2019s life. That\u2019s why, in terms of the finding, the removal of \u201Cnot guilty\u201D was critical from a policy perspective to deliver the intent of the bill, as was the word \u201Cproven\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I want to put on record, and it has been referred to by many of my colleagues who worked so diligently with me to get this bill right, was the need to balance the person who had been found to be insane and their needs, as well as the victims\u2019 needs. One of the interesting comments that came through this process was how confusing it is both for the victim and for the person that\u2019s been found to be insane to have heard \u201Cnot guilty\u201D, because the finding was \u201Cnot guilty\u201D but then that person was taken into the custody of the Ministry of Health as a special patient. For some of those special patients, hearing the words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D added to their confusion in terms of why their liberties, as they knew it, were being constrained. I think that we managed that balance of the really important needs of the person with a severe level of mental illness to be found to be insane\u2014I think we very carefully balanced their needs and their rights as well as the rights of the victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EComing to the question about the victims\u2019 notification of impending leave. There was another item of business that was before the Justice Committee, and that was a petition in the name of Wendy Strawbridge. That petition was dealt with in parallel to my member\u2019s bill. And again, I want to acknowledge the Justice Committee for making that decision to handle them in parallel, because Wendy Strawbridge was a community nurse and attempted murder was the charge that the man who attacked her faced in court. He was found to be not guilty on account of insanity. But what was most destructive for her and why she was so motivated to put the petition to Parliament was that without any knowledge, without any information, the special patient who attacked her and very nearly killed her was then released unescorted into the same community that she lived in. Had this been a criminal in the justice system, she would have been notified as a victim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo again, very careful consideration was made in terms of balancing the needs of the special patient and making sure there was nothing that we decided in the select committee that would be detrimental to their recovery and their health and that balanced the needs with the victims\u2019 to be safe in their own community. At this point I want to also acknowledge the work of the officials from the Ministry of Justice and the Ministry of Health, who grappled with some pretty challenging issues in balancing it out. And I think with the considerable efforts of the select committee members, we struck that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3bc70bfb6804970b3f2de174cfd3530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3bc70bfb6804970b3f2de174cfd3530\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227ef8f21e1bad4aa8bfcc16087a0793e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ef8f21e1bad4aa8bfcc16087a0793e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendment to Part 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPart 1, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223825fb5d2f5e43babfcc4e87ee8b8219\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act 1992, and Schedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002214d173abbeb64a33ab994b64271209e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214d173abbeb64a33ab994b64271209e2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2, and this is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33f7fb9d93a4d249f72db050ad6bcd1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce9e250491e4000b6753e1416f27db4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! I did have some words to say, but Emily Henderson also has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e02c20ba5d8a4849bafe282eef56bf81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e02c20ba5d8a4849bafe282eef56bf81\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, this is just a red-letter day for those people whose names end with \u201Cson\u201D rather than \u201Csen\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAll right, we\u2019ve come now to Part 2. I had a few more things to say about Part 1, but I\u2019m pretty sure that because of the way we\u2019ve had to structure this omnibus bill, we can still discuss them. Isn\u2019t that fun? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe start of Part 2 is really about how we grappled with the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act 1992, which is the same year I started work in vulnerable witnesses\u2014oh, my God, I\u2019m old. Anyway, this, of course, comes to the issue that we\u2019ve already alluded to, which is that this bill has two significances, other than my overarching obsession with the rights of victims. The first one, of course, is that placing of the victim at the changing of a verdict, which we\u2019ve already discussed in some detail, and I was very pleased to see that I was being joined in my nerdy-ness on this side of the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut the second part of it is about that difficult process of finding an equivalence for the rights of victims of ordinary offenders\u2014non-insane offenders\u2014as opposed to insane persons, who we went on to deem offenders. I would like Ms Upston to talk to that, because it was a very difficult operation. These systems\u2014the mental health system and the criminal law system and the penal system\u2014are not used to talking to each other; in fact, they operate almost oblivious to the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EOne of the real privileges, I think, of this process was having the Director of Mental Health before us again and again, and he was extraordinarily kind to a bunch of enthusiasts who did not understand the system as we needed to. But he also did us the courtesy of taking our endeavour seriously and of walking us through the balance between the rights and needs of the insane person, who is a patient and who is a sick person in need of protection and treatment, and making sure that in our zeal to ensure the inclusion of the victim, we did not overstep into the rights of the insane person, and that was not easy, particularly when the system has no real compatibility, and, frankly, I didn\u2019t think the mental health system really had much interest in the legal system, which, of course, came as a shock to a lawyer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWhen we had that discussion, there were those three different Acts that we needed to marry up in order to create our equivalence, and I would like you to talk us through what they were and why they were. But also, I\u2019d like you to talk through your thoughts about why it was important that we actually grapple with that and intrude on the treatment of patients and try to include this new element in the work of clinicians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIt was interesting watching them grapple with that, because I remember that, at one point, and it was Ginny Andersen talking about this earlier today who reminded me of this, they talked about how they had never really had the opportunity to learn some of the things that victims could tell them which were, in fact, relevant to treatment\u2014for example, the letting out of the person and the leave provisions, which go across two different Acts for the different stages of the leave. I think Ms Upston would do the community a service if she spent a little bit of time on how it works, and maybe that is where I should stop. I feel that it would do the community a service if Ms Upston would take us through how the process of leave works and how we sought to integrate the victim into that notification process, because it was extremely complicated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022122d8ccfc07941979435bfaad11b5e0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022122d8ccfc07941979435bfaad11b5e0b\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak to this part of the bill, which I also think raises some really complex issues about rights balancing that we certainly heard a lot of in some of the written submissions, including from some rather significant entities. I do think that it\u2019s important that we consider again whether we struck the right balance in the space of victim submissions but also the privacy issues that were raised by a number of organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI think there\u2019s a tendency to see particular areas of the law as discrete and each contained in their own boxes, and what this bill highlighted for me was, really, that we were dealing with a complex overlap between the mental health system and the justice system. For me, as a West Auckland MP, over the last few months I\u2019ve been out to see probations, who had also talked to me about the significant overlap they see fairly regularly in terms of the justice and mental health and wellbeing space. So it\u2019s certainly an area that I think we need to become more practised and well versed in in terms of how we respond appropriately, really, across both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EJust going back to the specific tensions that were identified in the submissions we had before us, the first one was really about whether or not it was appropriate for a victim, their family, a member of the public, for their submission, their statement in terms of how the Act had impacted them, to influence a decision about release, whether that was short-term release or longer-term release. I think we did hear that from several of the submitters. So what we were really balancing was the need to be heard, the very valid concern of safety concerns, but also a question about what a decision maker in a health context should take into account as they were making this decision. We heard that, again, from a number of submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe other big argument that was made was about the privacy space. So, once a decision had been made, what information should be provided to victims and their families? In this space, we heard from the Privacy Commissioner, who I believe raised some very valid concerns about privacy rights that we ought to protect. I know the Privacy Commissioner also had concerns about the information on health certificates and precisely what information was shareable and what information wasn\u2019t. I think the point that the Privacy Commissioner was trying to make was that we ought to be distinguishing between things that attach to safety and things that really did attach to, you know, very private health information of the individual concerned. I do know that this is a balance, because what we heard from victims on the other side was that what they wanted to know is that the health system was adequately caring for and supporting those people in its care, that some sort of change was happening as they were there. They really wanted to know that progress was being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI do think there\u2019s a big question about whether the balance is right, and these are very nuanced things in terms of what the influence should be going in but also what the scope of information is that comes out from those decision makers. I\u2019m very aware, of course, that from a number of the submitters, from victims themselves, we heard about that sense of fear of just looking across the street and suddenly being struck by the accused. Interestingly, there\u2019s some international literature that also suggests that often the accused don\u2019t want to be in that scenario either. So, really, it\u2019s finding the balance that protects them both, and for this clause in particular it may be that the same outcome best suits both the victims of the family as well as the accused. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022d74fa57e557e47c5949d4923030657f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d74fa57e557e47c5949d4923030657f5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Again, I think the Labour members who were on the select committee and were so diligent in working with me on it in some ways are answering the issues they\u2019re raising, because that is exactly one of the points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI just want to step back a bit, though, in terms of, again, the intent behind this bill, which is, of course, an omnibus bill. And this part is the mental health compulsory assessment and treatment amendments. So when Graeme Moyle came into my electorate office in 2010, his first concern was that a special patient, the special patient that had killed his brother, was out in the community having unsupervised visits. So his primary concern was actually public safety and that an unsupervised visit by a special patient could lead to harm in the community. So then if you think about\u2014one of the other significant policy intents is equivalence between the justice system and the health system. And if you are a victim in the justice system, you have the opportunity to present to the parole board. Although, as we worked through this, we clearly identified significant differences in terms of why that was not appropriate in the mental health system, and the bill was vastly improved in the select committee from where it started. So I want to acknowledge the select committee\u2019s effort in that. What was important is that victims wanted to be able to be heard, and they also wanted to be notified. So those are the two key parts of the policy behind the changes that appear in here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EObviously, the release of a special patient\u2014there is a significant process, which Dr Crawshaw, who is the Director of Mental Health, outlined, and the process that he goes through in making recommendations to the Minister of Health. So we did a lot of work to strike the balance of ensuring that there was not any inappropriate influence and that the Director of Mental Health and the mental health team are clearly specialists with a wide range of skills that they bring to the table in that decision, and the victim\u2019s voice was a component. The point that the member Vanushi Walters finished on was actually for some special patients it would be equally traumatising and damaging to their recovery to be confronted in the community with their victim. So we traversed the very necessary balance of the victim and the special patient. Again, I want to thank the select committee for taking the time to make sure that we had unanimous support and that the report that we brought back to this House was unanimously agreed, because we recognise this is a complex but very important issue to get right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00228ff7a7d844fe40489b33487ac74a94d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ff7a7d844fe40489b33487ac74a94d1\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Look, in terms of Part 2 of the bill, the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill, which specifically makes amendments to the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act, there\u2019s one area that I just would like to cover. I think there\u2019s been a really good discussion already, but there\u2019s one part that I think deserves being highlighted, and the member may wish to comment on this as well. What was fascinating for the committee to see was when, as mentioned, Dr Crawshaw, the Director-General of Mental Health, actually described the process. And sometimes, from the health perspective, it was seen as making decisions \u201Cwith a bit of a black box\u201D\u2014was the term he used to describe that. So I would like to think that, through some of these changes, we\u2019re actually making the system far more transparent and providing health professionals with more, I guess, real information from different sources to be able to make those decisions or make those recommendations to the Minister with a bit of a real-world flavour to it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I think that, in terms of what\u2019s been said already to support that, it strikes that balance of making sure that health professionals are still acting within the best interests of the mental health patient\u2014to make sure that their therapy and their journey back into wellness is being supported as appropriately as possible\u2014but, at the same time, if there\u2019s pertinent information provided by the victim or the family, that it\u2019s being taken into account when that recommendation is being made to the Minister in terms of what to do. I think it was really interesting to see that there is a lot of effort that goes into those decisions, and I think that, for those submitters that were watching and listening and understanding some of that information, it is not a simple decision being made when someone is being released back into the community, and how that is done. There were some instances given by the Director-General of Health that quite specifically said that it would not be in the best interests of the patient if it was just a trip to the dairy or maybe a trip every second week\u2014like, in the initial stages of someone being supported back into the community, that it\u2019s not within the best interests of the patient for that information to be provided to the victim of the offence every single step of the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo that balance of making sure that the appropriate level of information is made available\u2014I think, and the member may wish to comment, that this has made a considerable improvement to decision-making processes that has really managed to straddle both the criminal justice process and also the reintroduction of someone back into the community and that whole rehabilitative process of the mental health system. And let\u2019s remember that New Zealand\u2019s history in terms of mental health, of the way that we have treated mental health patients in the past, is a shocking and abysmal history of how people have, essentially, been incarcerated for what is a health issue. So to be able to make such improvements to our system that still guarantees victims and their families that ability to feel that their views have been taken into account whilst still providing the patient the ability to build back their life is there. So, I guess, that was just my view\u2014that that was a really special point in the bill for me\u2014and I invite further comment in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc37840eadf34393b97aec699eb66b9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc37840eadf34393b97aec699eb66b9e\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022741a4d422e0c429ab36c10e219600e9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022741a4d422e0c429ab36c10e219600e9b\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you. I appreciate very much the opportunity to take part in this committee stage of this bill, the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. Unlike some of my colleagues, I wasn\u2019t on the select committee that looked into this bill, but I did approach looking at this bill with a great degree of interest. So I do have some questions, and I apologise\u2014I don\u2019t have the expertise that some of my colleagues have, or, obviously, the member whose name the bill is in, Louise Upston, has in this area. So I would be quite interested to hear the answers to some of these questions\u2014and also to just commend the Justice Committee for their work on this area. It seems to me that there\u2019s been a lot of collaboration, which has been apparent since the second reading. I was in the House for the second reading, and I commend the member and the select committee for working together to create this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe areas of the bill that I wanted to draw to the member\u2019s attention are mainly in four areas. The first area, as someone who previously practised law and studied law, was the removal of the mens rea component of the offence. When I studied law, it was very much a necessary component to have that particular element of it, and it\u2019s very novel and different to have this bill put forward without that component necessary as part of the conclusion of finding and the ultimate determination in this particular area. So that\u2019s one thing that I found particularly interesting, but I do understand why the member has proposed that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI was very moved by the way that the member has spoken about her constituent and how she came to put this bill forward. I think it\u2019s in many ways the way that we should bring members\u2019 bills\u2014you see, myself being a backbencher MP\u2014as non-ministerial members of Parliament: to listen to the concerns of our constituents and then bring these forward. I do think that she has spoken about the victims of the crimes that have been committed, and their families, in a very respectful and appropriate way, and so I think that\u2019s really added to the quality of this debate\u2014and also by other committee members who have spoken to this too. So I just wanted to commend the member for that. And so I do understand the reason that we have moved away from that element of mens rea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe second element that I would be interested in is the role of the Minister is unusual\u2014as someone who hasn\u2019t been involved in the deliberations\u2014and it might have seemed quite usual and it is probably a very good way of solving some very immediate issues under this Act. So the role of the Minister of Justice in, essentially, approving leave\u2014that is a very novel element of criminal law that I had not often been familiar with. I hadn\u2019t practised criminal law very much at all\u2014a very short amount of time as a very, very junior lawyer. So that is one element of the bill, and specifically within this part that we discussing, and a part to which I wanted to bring to the attention of the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe third part, which is discussed in detail in this particular section in Part 2, was the interrelationship between the criminal law and our health system. Now, this is something that as a student of law you might not often consider to be particularly apparent, but it is clear from the experience of people that it is absolutely necessary that the criminal law, especially when dealing with insane offenders, interrelates and works properly and seamlessly with the health system. And so I commend the member for putting forward a system which looks at these two very important elements of our society and brings them together, and I wanted to give her the opportunity to explain how that works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe last thing I had is really a genuine question, which\u2014I hadn\u2019t read all the submissions and been present at the select committee to hear a lot of the comments, but one thing I would be interested in and I haven\u2019t actually heard it mentioned by any of my other colleagues yet either, is: has she heard from any families of insane offenders of their view of this particular bill? Because it became apparent to me in reading it that it might be that they too would appreciate this change, in terms of the clarity of the decision that ends up being put forward. So I just wondered if she had heard from any of the families of insane offenders\u2014obviously, for them, a very difficult position to be in. And it is appropriate that we have clarity in our law. So I just wanted to ask her if she had heard that and if she could share that with the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccf5094dad024fa3a6ec3132c604b8da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccf5094dad024fa3a6ec3132c604b8da\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to quickly address a couple of the matters raised by the member who has just resumed her seat, Camilla Belich. The first thing is just to actually correct\u2014it is the Minister of Health who grants the leave to the special patients, not the Minister of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe other thing is, from the public\u2019s perspective, they just expect that the systems of Government work together, and they\u2019re quite shocked when they don\u2019t. So we have to move more into the world of the New Zealanders who access Government services and support, as opposed to living in the world of the system for the system\u2019s sake. That is exactly what\u2019s happening with this bill. It is from the world of the victim and the world of the special patient, and the collective efforts of the Justice Committee and the officials who nutted out things in the background have meant this is a piece of legislation that is for the New Zealanders who this bill should serve, as opposed to the systems themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad03838d5dea47019f4c96894b1e0e16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad03838d5dea47019f4c96894b1e0e16\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022021126fc9fa34f30a04d319ada42d70c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022021126fc9fa34f30a04d319ada42d70c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPart 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002238eac3ad34584acba80b0707d3e3297e\u0022\u003EPart 3 Amendments to Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003, and Schedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6c83719ada94b05ae308b454a5b114e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6c83719ada94b05ae308b454a5b114e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 3. Part 3 is the debate on clauses 12 to 13A and Schedule 3, amendments to the Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003. The question is that Part 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendments to Part 3, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPart 3, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ade371c4031e400a9f55af06003270bc\u0022\u003EPart 4  Amendments to the Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002, and Schedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f85aea51ca8e4020a0c46704b31ff164\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f85aea51ca8e4020a0c46704b31ff164\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 4, which is the debate on clauses 14 to 15A and Schedule 4, amendments to the Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002. The question is that Part 4 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2642bee2c1641938fec159751f113d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2642bee2c1641938fec159751f113d1\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just want to seek clarity\u2014under Part 4, there\u2019s also Part 2A. Is that taken as a separate part, or is it able to raise a question to the member in charge of the bill in relation to Part 2A?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb10c3c45e54187a9b5c4802620ec8a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see. My understanding is that it is only Part 4 that is being amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147e007e0c8e448e8f5f28097362d2fb\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The point I wish to reach is under the next section, so under Part 2A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a708edad86fc4343994fc20d57729a4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: All right. So Part 2A is part of the bill which is being inserted by the passing of Part 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227139b9dc15dd4fc88e95420c0fbd4b14\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Right. I understand. Great. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to make a brief contribution, and interested in the member in the chair\u2019s views, because I think one of the most important changes to the bill is contained within that section, which relates to victim impact statements. So the Justice Committee has recommended amending the Victims\u2019 Rights Act to allow victims of insane offenders the opportunity to make victim impact statements. In some ways, I guess, it\u2019s unbelievable that this has not been made available in the past, that that right has not been taking place when there have been people who are accused who are unfit to stand trial or insane without having the requisite mens rea for the crime that\u2019s been alleged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo these statements will be parallel to those that already exist for victims of sane offenders, and will accordingly take place at the disposition hearing, which will take place after the offender has been found guilty or, in this case, proven to have committed the offence. I think it\u2019s really important to note in this space that the victim impact statement will not be used to inform any clinical or judicial decision about the fitness of a person to stand trial. So just as it operates for those victims of offenders who are sane, this gives that right to the victim to be able to have their voice heard in the courtroom, to tell their part of the story, and for that voice to be conveyed clearly. That\u2019s incredibly important in restoring the rights of victims in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis change specifically reflects the submissions of 13 submitters who came before the committee and provided their views, including individual victims, and also a submission that was an excellent one from the New Zealand Council of Victim Support Groups. So I\u2019m just interested to know from the member where this idea generated from. I think it\u2019s been something that\u2019s very, very loudly spoken through the submissions process, and it\u2019s good to be able to see that right from the outset that this bill has attempted to provide a parallel process or a parallel ability for those victims of insane offenders to have the same rights and voice as anybody else going through the criminal justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fca165d3ae24850b1b747da5be74557\u0022\u003EDr Emily Henderson\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229defc4feeb5e44f6951b39b46c36dfde\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318333ec04ee40b0bc6af9222a8a4020\u0022\u003EDr Emily Henderson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair\u2014Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e471b5d9c54bcebb924521e4824e37\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Emily Henderson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd3b6bc5419d418b95f43887020974a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd3b6bc5419d418b95f43887020974a9\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E I thank you for your forbearance in the matter of gender pronouns. I know these things are very important these days. I often think with my teenagers that, you know, we were brought up to believe it didn\u2019t matter who you were and whether you were a man or woman or gay, straight, or whatever. But for the generation today, it really matters, so you get told off when you get the wrong pronouns now, and I am having to learn it is important. We have evolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ERight, I do want to just pick up on what Ginny Andersen\u2019s just been saying, because I do think that this is something where it\u2019s really important for those who will want to dig into this bill and want to investigate it because it is actually very significant philosophically to dig into that victim impact statement further. So I just want to go back: the Victims\u2019 Rights Act, which introduced victim impact statements back in, I think, 2003, possibly 2002. I\u2019ll just double check that\u2014it\u2019s 2002. That was a step change for the criminal system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIt brings with it\u2014for those who don\u2019t know, a victim impact statement, the traditional process or the normal process is that once the person is found guilty, when I was a prosecutor many years ago in Whang\u0101rei, the victim\u2019s advisor would then work with the victim, who had now gone from being a complainant to a victim, and they would come up with a statement, and the statement had to be quite carefully worded. You weren\u2019t allowed invective. You weren\u2019t allowed to be needlessly abusive. You had to keep your submission within bounds. And if the person did not do that, then the judge was directed to pay no attention to those parts of that statement. There were then a series of processes for the delivery of that statement where the person could appear in court. But some victims are not capable of standing and addressing a courtroom. We did allow some victims to speak via CCTV, and all of those sorts of provisions were quite crucial. But we also allowed other people to read them, and when you read the newspaper. you\u2019ll often see the victim\u2019s advisor delivered so-and-so\u2019s statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s what we invented back in 2002, but when we brought it in today, when we were looking for it, and Ms Upston will remember\u2014when we were looking at this quite vital part of the rights of personhood of a victim in this context, because that\u2019s what it is, it\u2019s not just about the usefulness of the statement, because that is the cloak we\u2019ve kind of put over it, but really; it\u2019s an assertion of the rights of personhood of the victim. It was difficult to find where we would put it, because the excuse for getting a victim in to give a statement normally is that it\u2019s going to be useful to the sentencing process. We don\u2019t have a sentencing process here. We had no room to play with. We had to, essentially, invent an option that the victim would be there at the disposition hearing when the decision is made that the person be committed for treatment. And that in itself has always seemed to me really quite significant and a bold move by the member in writing this bill. It recognised that final piece of the puzzle or that\u2014it\u2019s not the final piece of the puzzle; the middle piece of the puzzle, which is allowing them the right to stand and have their say in a courtroom that they otherwise do not have, pretty much unmediated provided they stayed within those bounds of civility. I would like the member to discuss why that was important to her from the beginning and to people who were the victims who came to her for representation in this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThat would be one thing I would really appreciate hearing on, and I think we all would. I think this is going to be something where academics are going to drill. Academics are going to have a field day with this bill because it is that significant. I certainly would, were I still in the ivory towers rather than the wooden building with the faux Grecian\u2014lovely Grecian!\u2014columns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce9666cfd994dc4b0b45ef19ec6d0a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce9666cfd994dc4b0b45ef19ec6d0a0\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for an opportunity to speak to this fourth part on victim impacts statements. I think, for those members who aren\u2019t fortunate enough to be on the Justice Committee, you\u2019re getting a taste today of the level of detail with which we went through this bill but also how seriously we took this issue. And I spoke earlier tonight about the overlap between the justice and the health policy space, which I think is also a question about this part of the bill. But that conflict or that overlap was also present when we considered operational matters as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t take a second call on the last section, but one of the interesting questions that was raised there was procedurally, operationally what happens when a patient commits an offence while they\u2019re out on leave? And what are the operational connections between justice and health that ensure that that data is captured and quick steps are taken? So, again, I would make the point that we need to be actively considering the interaction between the health and the justice space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo in relation to the changes that are made here, this absolutely sits in that point of tension space in terms of giving victims a right to have their say, but also questioning, really, the impact that has on a relevant decision-maker, particularly in the health space, and what impact it should have. But this part of the bill isn\u2019t just about the provision of the victim\u2019s views, which we do have at clauses 14I and 14J; it\u2019s also direction to judicial officers not to take into account withheld parts. So, again, you see that really fine approach to balancing of rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI would also point out a significant section, which I know is important for many of those who we heard from. And that is 13A, which is, really, the notice for victims or persons or offenders subject to mental health or intellectual disability of care. It\u2019s the right to be notified of a person or offender\u2019s designation. What we heard from a number of people who submitted to the select committee was a sense of fear about offenders being out in public. But I would also say, equally\u2014as much a sense of anxiety about not knowing what was happening. And, again, the Chief Victims Advisor puts this really well when she describes interviewing victims, and she says they describe this feeling of being sort of in limbo and really being unheard and unseen. And so I do think that this is a really significant piece of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThen, perhaps, my question\u2014as we\u2019re nearing the ends of the parts of the bill\u2014as well for the member is just reflecting on pace of change. I think there are a number of pieces of legislation that are upcoming in the House, including the safe areas bill at some stage, where we\u2019ve seen moves from the likes of Australia in those areas before New Zealand has gone into those areas ourselves. I know that there have been moves in New South Wales to review their legislation in this space. I also know that Canada have made an attempt to change the verdict requirements. And the question is really: have the changes that have been made across all parts of this bill done justice to the pace of change internationally? Are we keeping up with our neighbours across the Ditch? Are we keeping up with like jurisdictions\u2014for example, Canada\u2014but also the most recent research in terms of the experience of victims and the experience and also the rights of patients who are in the care of mental health facilities as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002266a57513e0a744459b9f86eca4e1a65a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a57513e0a744459b9f86eca4e1a65a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. For many people listening to this committee of the whole House, they will realise that the amendments to the Victims\u2019 Rights Act are probably the most critical in terms of achieving the policy intent of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the questions that was asked before, about the introduction of the victim impact statements\u2014and, again, standing in the shoes of a victim: that they are a victim of a crime through no fault of their own, and so many of them have no or very little understanding of the justice system, and definitely, probably, less of the health system around mental health. As we as a country have progressed the rights of victims, one of the areas that has become more and more important for\u2014and \u201Cclosure\u201D, in this instance, just sounds trite, but I can\u2019t think of a better word. The ability of the victim to give a victim impact statement in court is a really important part of the process for them to resolve some of the trauma that they have dealt with by the very nature of being a victim. That trauma exists whether you are a victim of a sane person or an insane person. So these amendments in Part 4 provide more of that equivalence between the health and justice system that we talked about before, but very much in the ability of a victim to get some form of closure or to get to the next stage of their grief and trauma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut the other part, when the member refers to new section 30A, inserted by clause 14O, that, I think, is important to put on record\u2014because in the submissions from victims, there was not one that had ill-feeling or blame or hatred or anything for the special patient. In fact, it was in many cases quite the opposite. There was deep concern by the victim about the ability of the special patient to recover. And I think that\u2019s a really important part of this particular clause with new section 30A, because the victim wants to know: is that special patient getting treatment? Are they being supported on their journey back to their community and their family? Because to many of them, it felt like a black box: there was a special patient, they were found not guilty on account of insanity, and then the victim heard zero about what happened to that special patient. I was really moved by the submitters and their very generosity and need for them to understand and be kept informed in some way, shape, or form of what happened to the special patient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c348574980774742bf560d223768be07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c348574980774742bf560d223768be07\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00222ee6b4fb4a4947fd9dccffcb0e9d4ca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ee6b4fb4a4947fd9dccffcb0e9d4ca0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendment to Part 4 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022548de54549e94d1795613cd20f85243c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022548de54549e94d1795613cd20f85243c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 4, as amended, stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EPart 4, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022881f7e05dc33455d8be97412be4e3051\u0022\u003EPart 5  Consequential amendments to other enactments, and Schedule 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3e2093a404141b6b842c235bb5cbab0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3e2093a404141b6b842c235bb5cbab0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 5. This is the debate on clause 16 and Schedule 5, consequential amendments to other enactments. The question is that Part 5 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendment to Part 5 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EPart 5, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c87ca38f9a934286a755031ad1808fb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c87ca38f9a934286a755031ad1808fb8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendments to Schedule 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESchedule 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229f0bc897953d446b9eed95fb66eb746f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f0bc897953d446b9eed95fb66eb746f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendments to Schedule 3 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESchedule 3, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022296fe9faae85441792bfc3619901077a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022296fe9faae85441792bfc3619901077a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s amendments to Schedule 4 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 98 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESchedule 4, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESchedule 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002274f859c0f0d446b4b59fda9c3446c69a\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002281c02081ae334d279925a811393f23cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c02081ae334d279925a811393f23cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to the debate on clauses 1 and 2, title and commencement. The question is that clauses 1 and 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222d536fe1d2db4c198148c3ca16d0d140\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d536fe1d2db4c198148c3ca16d0d140\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Look, I just wanted to make a short contribution in relation to the commencement date. I think it was really important to highlight that it was further extended for a whole year. So, initially, the view of the commencement date was\u2014I think we had it down as July, but through consideration with the committee that there were so many significant changes, and that this bill made such, I guess, a leap in terms of trying to take into account criminal justice procedures as well as mental health processes, that the necessary changes that would have to be done would require significantly longer than what a typical passage of legislation would need. So, for those reasons, we heard from officials and took advice from both Health and Justice that a longer period for the commencement date for this bill would be required in order to do that. Look, I just think that it reflects in general the high level of cooperation from both sides of the House to take into account and try and have the best passage forward for these changes to be able to be bedded in and to take a long-term improvement not only to our mental health services but also to those rights of victims who have had an offence committed by someone who has been stated as being insane or unfit to stand trial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I welcome any comments from the member, but I think it was important to highlight to the committee the level of cooperation that enabled a longer commencement date in order for the substantive changes that will be required, and the coordination required as well between two quite different worlds, to make sure that these are bedded in appropriately to make those changes lasting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223da9dc1b7b744a41989af5c1c810b1d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223da9dc1b7b744a41989af5c1c810b1d8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225fb4055405f44c76acb05ab93e055a29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fb4055405f44c76acb05ab93e055a29\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: In accordance with a determination of the Business Committee, this bill is set down for third reading forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f08dc3ac6c024b34a944ccfec930cb67\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb5b3e5df6ee4d69972ce8b2961b597e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb5b3e5df6ee4d69972ce8b2961b597e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn October 2010, Graeme Moyle contacted me as his local member of Parliament, concerned about unsupervised visits by a special patient who was in the care of the Ministry of Health. This man, Matthew Ahlquist, was a special patient because he killed his flatmate Colin Moyle, Graeme\u2019s brother. Graeme has spent years working to change the law based on his experience of the system, which didn\u2019t treat him and his family the way he expected victims should be treated. Victims of crime, loved ones who have been affected by the taking of a life, are innocent, they are blameless, and they experience traumatic events through no fault of their own. It shouldn\u2019t matter if the person who committed the act was insane at the time or not. We have balanced very carefully the needs of the people who carried out these acts who were insane, who also need the protection and support and care of the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOn 4 April 2019, I put this member\u2019s bill into the biscuit tin. It was pulled from the ballot on the very same day. I\u2019m not sure that that\u2019s ever happened before, but I\u2019m very pleased that it did. It was over a year later, on 1 July 2020, that we had its first reading. I outlined the horrendous circumstances of Colin\u2019s death, and I don\u2019t intend to repeat that today. There was no doubt that Matthew Ahlquist took the life of a Good Samaritan, his flatmate Colin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere are special days in Parliament, and this is one. Too often you see the disagreements, the debates, and sometimes behaviour that is not becoming, and tonight you see the unanimous agreement, where the co-operation of members across the House and every party in Parliament agrees not only on a problem but, more importantly, the solution to that problem. Normally, members\u2019 bills are pretty straight forward\u2014you know, we\u2019re told, as a new beginner, as a new MP, if you want a member\u2019s bill, pick something small and tight. This hasn\u2019t been one of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill does three things: it changes the verdict so that victims don\u2019t hear the words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D, it gives victims a voice, and it provides victims with information. This is an omnibus bill, which amends the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003, the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act 1992, the Intellectual Disability (Compulsory Care and Rehabilitation) Act 2003, and the Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002. It is far more complex than what would normally be tackled in a member\u2019s bill, and so I have some people to thank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EFirstly, to Graeme, for your sheer perseverance. I think you\u2019ve figured out now that I can also be pretty bloody-minded, and it\u2019s a good thing that the pair of us are determined. I want to thank your wider family, in particular Liz, who have supported you in every step of this journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo the many victims that courageously shared their stories, their experiences, and their pain, I do have to say, as other select committee members no doubt will, some of the stories were absolutely harrowing, and some of those stories were heard in public for the very first time. So I want to commend you for your courage. This bill supports those who, through no action of their own and no fault of their own, have had their lives permanently altered\u2014trauma through no action of their own\u2014and this Parliament supports them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to thank Wendy Strawbridge, who presented her petition to Parliament, which sought to amend the law to extend to the victims of crime committed by people found to be insane the very same protections and rights as other victims of crime. She presented her petition in March 2019. Wendy was the victim of an attempted murder in Nelson while she was working as a registered nurse in the community. She discovered that the person found not guilty of her attempted murder by reason of insanity was back in the community, in her community, on unescorted leave. She had no input, no consent, no notification, which, of course, was devastating for her. I want to give my thanks to Nick Smith, who was her MP for all of this journey and who has worked tirelessly on this cause with me. This bill addresses the very issues that she raised; so it made sense for the select committee to deal with both items at once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo Victim Support, who have recently celebrated 35 years. They were also at the table, giving evidence, and behind the scenes, providing support to the victims that had presented, along with other victims\u2019 advocates, like the tireless Ruth Money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to thank the members of this House for keeping the focus on victims. It was a complex balance. It was a very difficult and awkward balance at times, but we landed in a place where we balanced the needs of the victims and also those of the special patients. I want to thank each of the party leads on this bill for taking the time, the meetings, the discussions, the late night texts, and really deeply considering the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee, who, on multiple occasions, could have easily said, \u201CIt\u2019s too hard; go home.\u201D\u2014and I\u2019m sure they were tempted to! Thank you for your perseverance. I think this piece of legislation\u2014the omnibus bill of four complex pieces of legislation that are being amended\u2014really is due to the significant work that the select committee members put in. By keeping an open mind, by keeping a focus on the policy intent of the bill, we traversed this very tricky issue, at times pushing the boundaries. And special thanks goes to the chair, Ginny Andersen, for diligently and carefully navigating our way through this process to ensure that we kept support for the bill unanimous. And I want to repeat that because that is really unusual. It is very unusual in the select committee on any bill, and it\u2019s incredibly rare on a member\u2019s bill. So I do want to pay special tribute to Ginny for the professional way and the very diligent way you drove to ensure we got an outcome that we all agreed with. And I know, at times, I can push the boundaries myself, perhaps showing that bloody-mindedness, that determination, or at times I\u2019ve been referred to as being unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo Andrew Little, who now is the Minister of Health but formerly the Minister of Justice, who agreed quite some time ago that the verdict must be changed and gave officials full remit to work on this bill. Again, that\u2019s very unusual, and without the Minister\u2019s remit, we wouldn\u2019t have been able to do the sorts of work that we needed to, to end up with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo the justice and health officials, and in particular Dr Crawshaw, who worked so well together despite coming up against issues that needed careful consideration and were often in conflict with each other. As I said before, in the committee stage, usually our systems of Government are very separate, and it\u2019s quite hard to mesh them together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo the select committee staff, who kept us incredibly supported through our work, who worked so professionally, and the officials, as I said, who navigated some pretty tricky waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ELast, but not least, the Parliamentary Counsel Office, who helped interpret my very first policy intent into a member\u2019s bill after many, many, many months of work and then crafted the select committee decisions into a workable solution that we will pass the bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EToday, I want to give confidence to every New Zealander that this is your House and, as MPs, we work for you. We work to make New Zealand a better place. You can meet with your MP, like Graeme did, and you can change the law. To paraphrase another New Zealander, while it might not happen overnight, it can happen. Tonight is proof of that, and I think it\u2019s a wonderful way to end this parliamentary year, for the members\u2019 day, where victims will have more rights with the unanimous passing of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002244da6616a95b45a38fcec90c6797130d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244da6616a95b45a38fcec90c6797130d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022820a9855272d452c87ee3c8c0ad0fb55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022820a9855272d452c87ee3c8c0ad0fb55\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai. Thank you very much. That was a great speech from the member in charge of the bill, Louise Upston. It\u2019s not often that we have nice things going back and forwards across this House, so it\u2019s good to be able to take time to enjoy rare and exceptional circumstances. I think it\u2019s the content of this bill that has caused the unanimous agreement from both major parties in relation to an issue that\u2019s incredibly important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, I think Louise Upston needs to be acknowledged for not shying away from a tough issue. We\u2019ve had many members\u2019 bills in this House that have significant issues that have been brought before and managed to change the law for the better, and this one is exactly in that camp. Some of the best members\u2019 bills I\u2019ve seen during my time in this House have come through the office door of an electorate office, just as this one does. Real issues that come from the real day-to-day lives of New Zealanders\u2014when the law is not working right, they bring those to their local member of Parliament, who is able to champion those issues and change the law for the better. So I would like to acknowledge the fact that we have a great democratic system that works well enough, that we have that ability to have a one-on-one conversation with another human being and be able to take that forward and change the law to improve it for other human beings. I think it\u2019s testimony to the great democratic system we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge those submitters. I\u2019ve already mentioned in the previous stages of this bill that some of those submissions that we heard from, sometimes the victims of those crimes themselves, firsthand experience\u2014we heard accounts of a harrowing rape, a brutal rape within a woman\u2019s own home, from a complete stranger, who managed to break into her house. We also heard of the subsequent days, weeks, months, and years of her process, not only through the justice system but through her own rehabilitation, her own rebuilding of her life after such a horrendous crime. No one can imagine how difficult it must be to be in a courtroom and to hear the words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D after being the victim of such a brutal attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the fact that we have been able to traverse long, long hours and long time at the Justice Committee, to be able to provide a better way forward for victims of crime when the person who has been put before the court is declared to be insane or unable to be found guilty on account of insanity\u2014to how we take into account the needs of a person who is within our mental health system and, at the same time, take into account the needs of the victim of that crime\u2014is no easy feat. So I would like to say that it\u2019s been a big learning process for me to see how we can work together more effectively to make sure that we drive change that\u2019s lasting and that improves the processes that we have in place already in both health and in the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAs part of that, I\u2019ve been fascinated in the two key areas, and that\u2019s, first of all, coming up against, you know, the legal requirements of mens rea and actus reus\u2014the very fundaments of what it is in a guilty verdict and how we break that down in a way that meets the needs for the courtroom and the criminal justice system. How those very words, which seem so basic to lawyers, can be so offensive to the ears of victims and their family, and to have a discussion around how that takes place with both lawyers and with mental health and health experts\u2014debating that out, how we take care of those needs. I\u2019d like to see more debates like that in the future for New Zealand. I think it\u2019s a great area for us to look at, how two separate worlds intersect and how we can provide more effectively for people in their everyday lives by having conversations that go far beyond just an Act, that go far beyond what the requirements are in a textbook or a statute, and how that filters down into everyday lives. So that\u2019s been a fascinating process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe other part of the process that has been a really intriguing one for me is seeing how the mental health system and how the justice system can work more effectively, and I think we\u2019ve done a great job at putting that forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to quickly traverse through the stages of the verdict, because I think it\u2019s important to keep that on the record, to see where we\u2019ve been. Where we started at on the spectrum of the verdict definition was, first of all, it started with \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D, and, for the reasons I\u2019ve already specified, that was the whole purpose of the bill\u2014that, to the ears of victims and their family in the courtroom, was so offensive. That was the purpose, to try and change that. Where the committee initially landed was \u201Cproven but insane\u201D, and while we got advice and did a good job in that space of trying to balance, we had the Chief Justice not agreeing with that. So after the bill had been reported back to the House, we found ourselves in the unusual position of it being referred back to select committee for the Justice Committee to once again take into account that advice from the Chief Justice, and see how we can provide for, particularly, that word \u201Cproven\u201D that we were using and the fact that it could not be \u201Cproven\u201D if there was no mental element or mens rea due to the mental health or a specified insanity of the person standing on trial. The Chief Justice emphasised the fundamental principle underpinning the finding of \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D, and that is that the defendant, by definition, is not guilty because the mental element of the offence has not been proven. As my learned colleague Duncan Webb was attempting to do earlier, even changing the title of the bill in order for \u201Coffenders\u201D to be removed and change that for \u201Cpersons\u201D, because, technically, they are not an offender if they have not been found guilty\u2014but I think we\u2019d had enough time debating the infinite details of this bill, and I encouraged him that we should just let the bill pass. I\u2019m sorry, but you know never to let an academic hold things up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I think that the place where we\u2019ve ended up is the right place, and that was when there was consistent agreement from all the different corners of the world: legal, mental health, policy. Having a clear view that the act was proven\u2014so by separating out actus reus and mens rea by just speaking about the act, the act is \u201Cproven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. So I just guess I would like to note that this is a sensitive and incredibly important area of the law, which requires a delicate and accurate legislative approach, and I think that we\u2019ve managed to do that, even though it took two turns. It is good that the committee has had the opportunity to consider it fully and ensure that it will work as intended\u2014as already spoken earlier, to have that longer enactment date to make sure that we do have those alignments in place for when this law comes into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge those not here tonight. Simon Bridges\u2014when in those long hours of debating on which of the several proposed definitions that we would adopt, it was actually some of Simon\u2019s words, to separate out \u201Cact proven\u201D, and having a hand in crafting that to achieve agreement. As the honourable member, Louise Upston, has already referenced, there were many points along the winding pathway of this piece of legislation where we could have thrown our hands up and said it\u2019s too hard and walked away, but we felt committed. I think, for me, I felt committed once hearing the stories of those victims, hearing the trauma and the pathway to rehabilitation and having their lives back on track. We felt committed to finding an outcome that served victims and made our criminal justice system fairer to those victims. I\u2019m really pleased to be seeing this law passed tonight, so that we can stand by the fact that we\u2019ve seen this done. I think we all put our political colours aside because it\u2019s been seen as a good way forward that provides an improvement to the existing circumstances. To be able to put that aside and move ahead with the best course, I think, is a good day for New Zealand democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019d like to sum up by saying that we support this bill as the Labour Party because it sits well with our values. We have put in the time because we see it as promoting justice, promoting transparency, and also respecting survivors of crime and also their communities. I\u2019d like to note that while this bill cannot undo or mitigate the things that people have experienced, we really hope that it can alleviate some of the most difficult elements of dealing with an incredibly complex and challenging area of our legal system for people in the future. I\u2019m proud and happy that the hours have paid off and that we can happily commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c484784f96d74a8cadc00b7e38400376\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c484784f96d74a8cadc00b7e38400376\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill, which is at its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELet me just start by acknowledging my colleague the Hon Louise Upston, who has brought this piece of legislation to Parliament, not only as someone who\u2019s been a local MP listening to her constituents, but someone who has a deep respect for the law, but also a deep appreciation and understanding for victims of crime. I just want to acknowledge the heart and the passion that she has brought to this Parliament when it comes to making sure that at the heart of our criminal justice system, we put victims first. I think that\u2019s the message that Parliament is sending tonight to the criminal justice system: that we want to see victims put at the heart of our criminal justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the previous speaker, Ginny Andersen, and we\u2019ve heard from Louise Upston about the many challenges this bill has faced to get to where it has got to. One point I just want to make to all of those victims who are listening tonight is that we hear you, that we see you, that we are listening, and that we are making sure that Parliament puts its stamp on the law and on the criminal justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt is ultimately Parliament who sets the law in this country. It is ultimately Parliament that gets to decide what the law says, and that is what we are doing tonight by changing the verdict in these cases from \u201Cnot guilty on account of insanity\u201D to \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. Whilst some may say it\u2019s only words, when we here heard from those victims who came and who shared their tears in front of us at the select committee, who shared their stories and their anguish, the pain and their suffering; not just in the courtroom on that day, but in the years following, we realise that, actually, these words deeply\u2014deeply\u2014matter. And not just the words, but also the other parts in this bill which make a real difference to those victims and their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased that we\u2019ve been able to have agreement across the House. I want to acknowledge the Labour Party; the chair, in particular, of the Justice Committee, Ginny Andersen\u2014it\u2019s been great working with them. And I want to acknowledge the contribution that everyone on the Justice Committee has made. I commend this bill to the House and I look forward to continuing to see more legislation brought to this Parliament which puts victims first in our criminal justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc95c3685ff047e48ea4d56c99c1f9f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc95c3685ff047e48ea4d56c99c1f9f8\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker, and thank you for an opportunity to take a call. I also want to begin by acknowledging the member Louise Upston, not only for raising an important issue but for also allowing victims to be heard at the select committee and giving them a voice there, but also for her thoughtfulness, for her care, and for her patience as we asked questions during the committee stage. That was very much appreciated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI referred in a number of my statements at the committee stage to the Chief Victims Advisor\u2019s report in 2019, which is called Te Tangi o te Manawanui. It was recommendations for reform in the victims\u2019 rights space, and that made a significant impact on me, partially because it quoted victims themselves. One of those quotes talked about justice for victims being \u201CBasically, a safety net for people who have been wronged. And whether or not that net has holes in it you don\u2019t know until you\u2019ve got on the journey.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Justice Committee, a large part of our process was about listening to people and to families who had been on that journey and had experienced some really horrific instances of crime and offending. The challenge for us, I think, as a committee was really putting victims first and keeping them front of mind\u2014which they absolutely were\u2014but also balancing the rights at play with the principles of our criminal justice system, which are equally important to maintaining a fair justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I would thank, again, the member but also those who came in to submit. I think it was incredibly courageous for a lot of them to provide those submissions to us, but, as the member herself also referenced, I think there was a lot of integrity in the way that they approached submitting to the select committee. There was a lot of respect for the mental health system and a recognition of its inherent value, and this was from people who have suffered a whole lot in terms of instances that have happened to them. As my colleague Ginny Andersen said, this bill won\u2019t be able to undo the harm that those individuals have suffered, but I do believe that the bill in the form that it\u2019s been amended to and that it\u2019s been reported back from select committee goes some way to acknowledging the rights of victims while also remaining true to the principles of our justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EIt is a bill that does aim to ensure that victims in this space are given equivalent treatment. We\u2019ve traversed through the committee stage the number of different changes that are included within this bill, including notification to a victim when an offender is released, including victim impact statements, and also, of course, the verdict, which I think has been really, for me, that real pivot point in terms of finding the right balance between all of the rights at play here. A number of us spoke about the fact that this hasn\u2019t been an easy process. It has been about balancing interests and rights, but I do think that these are timely changes and changes that also mirror those made in other like jurisdictions to strike an appropriate balance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI also do want to acknowledge some of the submitters. I do recall vividly the submission of Victim Support, whose submissions referenced Glen Collins, a much-loved man. He was a 45-year-old father of two who was stabbed to death without any warning, and there were many, many horrific stories that we heard over the course of that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI also wanted to reflect very briefly again on the changes to the verdict. Our chairperson, Ginny Andersen, stepped us through a number of those changes, and there were actually three iterations of change to what the current law is. I\u2019d again point to the member\u2019s bill when it first came into select committee, and the verdict in that bill referenced \u201Cacts or omissions\u201D and also included a reference to \u201Cthe defendant\u201D. The select committee then shifted to \u201Cproven but insane\u201D, and where we landed\u2014the \u201Cact proven, but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D\u2014is actually, in my view, very akin to the member\u2019s initial proposal. That says two things to me. Firstly, it shows the integrity and the balance that the member brought to the initial version of the bill, which was intended to bring a balanced approach, but it also shows the rigour with which the committee approached its task. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also useful to consider the pace of change. I asked a question during committee stage about comparability with like-jurisdictions. There have been a number of other changes in Australia and in Canada in this regard. In New South Wales, they conducted a review into the experience of victims and the system and, as a result of the review, there were a number of changes that were made, including that the victim had the right to make a statement in court and also that the court may consider the statement in deciding the conditions that were going to be imposed. This really does, in New South Wales, give that victim comparable treatment. In Canada, for circumstances akin to these, the law has removed the words \u201Cnot guilty\u201D from the insanity verdict, replacing them with \u201Cnot criminally responsible\u201D. So you can see a very similar trend in like-jurisdictions, so we are not out of step with what\u2019s happening internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EIn considering some of the changes that we did, we didn\u2019t just look to statements from victims\u2014although their submissions weighed heavily on us\u2014we also considered the views of academics and practitioners in the area, including the mental health law expert Dr Warren Brookbanks and forensic psychiatrist Dr Jeremy Skipworth, both of whom have argued the benefits of allowing victims to make submissions concerning patients\u2019 leave and release as well. So these are views that are shared by academics and specialists alike. But the tensions were very real. We touched on a number of them during committee stage, including the broad overlap between the justice space and the health space, and, again, I think we touched on that in a policy sense, but we also saw it as a space where operationally there was a lot of overlap. I think the clear message for us was to recognise that the law doesn\u2019t exist in those discrete boxes, but that we need to actively consider the mental health space and the health and wellbeing space as we\u2019re making changes to our justice legal framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe other big tension that I spoke about at committee stage was the issue of privacy and disclosure, and I did pay particular heed to the submission of the Privacy Commissioner as well as the Human Rights Commission in this regard. I said, again at committee stage, that, in my view, there were some very valid questions raised about the balance and whether we were getting the balance right. We were balancing those submissions against what we heard from victims themselves who talked about a need to be informed. They talked about the anxiety of walking the streets and just not knowing whether someone would present or note. I do note that at committee stage the member responded very well to this question as well, citing the fact that for many mental health patients, it\u2019s not in their best interests either to be in a situation where victims aren\u2019t made aware of their temporary release.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EFinally, I would just like to say again that I commend the member for raising this issue. I think we\u2019ve worked extremely collegially cross-party to achieve a balance that will work both for victims\u2019 rights as well as for the rights that we uphold in our justice system. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00224433b7e2e9f24f2091afae9a55e2c51d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224433b7e2e9f24f2091afae9a55e2c51d\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party in support of the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. I am speaking on behalf of the Green Party, but I also just wanted to mention that I\u2019m also, in particular, speaking on behalf of our justice spokesperson, Golriz Ghahraman, who I know would have wanted to have been here to speak in support of this bill, having worked alongside the Hon Louise Upston and the select committee over a very long time to get this bill into its current form. Unfortunately, she\u2019s not able to. She would be able to make the case much more competently than I\u2019m about to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the Hon Louise Upston for her work on this bill. It\u2019s often said in this Chamber that there are two kinds of member\u2019s bill: one being a sort of a political statement, which probably has no chance of getting anywhere but is used to lay out a position; the other is a genuine attempt to solve a very real challenge. This bill falls into that category. It is a complex and a sensitive area, as a number of speakers before me have mentioned tonight, and recognising it has taken quite a long time from first reading to make its way through to here. It is one of those bills that is truly worth taking the time to do properly. So I do want to acknowledge the member who brought the bill and I do want to acknowledge the work that Ginny Andersen and the select committee have done and that the officials have done over a number of years, over what is quite a narrow but important and difficult and challenging area, where issues of mental health and criminal justice are conflated and not easily picked apart. I think that the bill has landed in a very good place, having taken quite a journey to get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe gap, of course, is in the justice system, where, currently, until probably about 30 minutes from now, there is no mechanism by which victims of criminal acts that are committed by insane persons\u2014to provide any form of victim impact statement. That is a gap in the sense of being able to create justice, to provide a justice system that actually lives up to its name. The Green Party, of course, has always strongly supported the inclusion of victims\u2019 views in the justice process. We do believe that victims must be supported at every stage of the justice process, and that includes by having their views and their experiences safely and affirmatively given in the context of the proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs with a number of others, of course, we did have a problem with the wording in the original bill. Where, as a number of other speakers have said, the original language around \u201Cproven but insane\u201D implied criminal responsibility. So I think that there was an amendment that was put up quite early in Golriz\u2019s name but actually events then overtook it. The Chief Justice made the submission by writing to Parliament, asking that that issue get addressed, and, you know, the work was done. It\u2019s landed in a very, very good place as a result. So, in that sense, I think that the kind of key issue that we were anxious about has been very well resolved to the satisfaction of everybody, has been noted as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI also just wanted to mention there were some other organisations that engaged with this bill, including JustSpeak and the Mental Health Foundation, who were, at least initially, opposed to this. They had some concerns about the risk of non-judicial and non-clinical input into the decision-making process that concerns about how there might be a risk of longer sentences being conferred, which would harm rehabilitation\u2014which, of course, then errs back into the issues around mental health and criminal responsibility, and so on\u2014and that context of it being about mental health rather than being about holding the offender accountable, which is, of course, what normal sentencing is about. So the committee has clearly engaged deeply in all of those very thorny issues. Those changes that have been made to the bill have kind of addressed those risks. So we\u2019re very pleased or we\u2019re assured that victims\u2019 statements aren\u2019t going to be able to be politicised, that those decisions will be contained within the process in a way that is safe for victims and actually for the people who have committed those acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI think some of the concerns about the bill speak to wider concerns about the justice system. It is an imperfect system. There are gaps in it, but they aren\u2019t going to be resolved within this bill, which does have a very narrow focus. I think that we need to continue always to ensure that we are seeking to improve the justice system so that those kinds of concerns, when they do come up through bills like this, are able to be addressed. We do hope that this bill does signal future legislative improvements to further our approach to restorative justice for insane offenders in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, I just want to come back to the beginning in acknowledging the work of everybody involved, but particularly the member who brought the bill. It\u2019s a very good piece of work, and I think this is one of those moments tonight where you can see Parliament at its absolute best; a rare and beautiful thing. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb8629a875764f4cb27c0cb0382a75d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb8629a875764f4cb27c0cb0382a75d5\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I\u2019m almost afraid, as I stand here tonight, of what we\u2019ve done. My colleague, the Hon Mr Shaw has just referred to this as being a narrow bill. I do get his point, in one sense there\u2019s not that many offenders who get classified as insane in this country. That\u2019s right. Compared to other sorts of offenders, they\u2019re quite a small subclass. But in another sense, I think it\u2019s one of the biggest things we\u2019ve done this year when it comes to the criminal justice system. And that is frightening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s big in two senses. First, what happens at the top of the system when you get to criminal trial, right up here [Lifts hand above head] influences everything in all the decisions that prosecutions and police make down here at the bottom. It becomes a bottleneck if you don\u2019t keep that space wide enough so that people can see the prospect of success. We all know that we have victims in this country who do not come forward or who give up because they look up at that top and they see only a bottleneck and they drop out and we lose their voices. This bill sends a message that the voices and the reality of victims are valued at that top point, at that apex of the criminal system. And that\u2019s significant. It\u2019s significant in another way. And as we\u2019ve discussed during the committee stage, which was so thoroughly enjoyable, this is a really significant bill because it puts the victim into the adversarial system in a way they have rarely been put at the centre of the adversarial system. The adversarial system is conceived as a two-party thing, a little bit like the traditional version of this House before we had the wonder and panoply that we see before us, of MMP. It was a two-party system that admits of no other and, for that, they recognise the reality and the significance and the dignity of two sides only: the Crown and the defendant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill, for perhaps the first time, gives victims an independent right of standing where they are not just tools, one way or another, to get evidence from for the purposes of those two important people: the Crown and the accused. That\u2019s incredibly significant. But it is nerve-racking. I found it so exciting, but it is frightening, and it should be frightening because the criminal justice system is right, criminal lawyers are right to be protective of our system. Because the criminal justice system is about the protection of some of the most vulnerable people in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EOne of those two parties, the defendants, they are so often so powerless. And if we don\u2019t have a system that enshrines their dignity as a matter of absolute importance in our system, then we do not deserve to call ourselves a civilised society. We have to protect the rights, the dignities of defendants. We have to do that. We also, though, have to look at the truth, and the trial has to be an effective mechanism for the discovery and the investigation of truth\u2014in balance with the dignity and the rights of the defendant. Hence, we get our evidence laws. Hence, we get things like the American version, no allowing of the \u201CFruit of the poison tree.\u201D These are important things, there might be evidence but if you\u2019ve got it through the destruction of the defendant\u2019s rights, then that is enough of a block. We give up on truth when it affects the dignity of the defendant to that degree. It is a system of checks and balances, and when we interrupt something as crucial as that, then we should be nervous and we should be mindful, and by God we were throughout this process. It has been a careful, arduous, often circular, often spiralling back upon itself process, and so it should, because it\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAs we do it, however, and as I think about what my dad, the criminal lawyer, is going to say when he gets a load of this one, when I think about the unconstitutional\u2014but nonetheless they\u2019re going to happen\u2014sideways glances I\u2019m going to get from judge friends when they get a load of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bf8027f57b64c5f8bd2f2f42d602a4d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, just a bit of big-noting while we pass it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282244bc872b442b6971ae180ebd6cff9\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014those doubts I have, those uncertainties about what we\u2019ve done, they are worth it. Oh, bring it on, Mr Bridges. You\u2019re all good\u2014I\u2019ve got teenagers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bbb7d5587b04feb90f3f0ce32816c93\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, I didn\u2019t say anything! I appreciate, you know, that it\u2019s easy to confuse the boyish good looks, but \u2026\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5f8b9471b904668961450090a9b35de\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Any time now you\u2019d like to carry on, do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef3eac5a2fb4414904c536058741bc5\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: One teenager or another; it doesn\u2019t really make much difference to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re doing is really, really significant. It\u2019s going to be something that\u2019s going to be picked over not only by my criminal practitioner colleagues but also by my criminal academic colleagues, because the other way in which this is incredibly significant is, as my colleague Vanushi Walters was talking about, in terms of an ongoing process of the reform of the criminal trial, which has been advocated for by academics over the last 30 years. The victims\u2019 rights movement, as it\u2019s known within academia, has been gathering pace, mainly as a result of the growing awareness in the early 1980s of the trauma inflicted on victims in the trial when they were victims of sexual assault. The victims that we saw, as I said earlier, echo the pain that has been talked about and found for the last 30 years. It is extremely significant, I think, in the development of the criminal law in this country that we are bringing this in. I think in the years to come this is going to be seen as a point at which Parliament shifted the goalposts and encouraged the adversarial trial to evolve. It is a scary thing we\u2019ve done, but it was the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe fact that the victims we saw, as Ms Upston brought up earlier, were not vengeful, that they weren\u2019t out to grind down the person who had hurt them, speaks also to what we\u2019re doing here. It\u2019s not about law and order and \u201Clock \u2019em up\u201D. It\u2019s not about making sure the person gets punished for what they did. That\u2019s all taken care of. What it\u2019s about is the giving of due respect to the victim. It\u2019s not about the destruction of one person in order to elevate the victim; it is about the elevation of all of them as key pieces in our criminal justice puzzle. That is significant and that is right and that is important work. I wish I could see some of my academic colleagues when they get a load of this one. Boundaries are difficult places. Boundaries are going to be difficult, difficult places to be at, but they\u2019re worthwhile places to be at, because otherwise what on earth are we doing here in this space?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAlso, in terms of our process, I think I do need to stop at this point and thank those officials who worked so incredibly hard and had to put up with nonsense the likes of which even Simon Bridges can\u2019t produce. We want to thank Dr Crawshaw, who again guided a bunch of know-nothing parliamentarians through the complex process of the mental health system and got us out the other side, I think, with everyone intact. I want to thank my colleagues on the committee for all of the help that we gave each other and all of the forbearance, particularly our chair Ginny Andersen and, most of all, the lady of the hour herself, Louise Upston\u2014absolutely remarkable bill. Given how much work it cost, I think maybe you could not put another one in the ballot box just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a83a416af0934dffb1e2ebf76027b9da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a83a416af0934dffb1e2ebf76027b9da\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcb7a61b968645e8baec071bcfdaf1ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcb7a61b968645e8baec071bcfdaf1ae\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to take a very short call on the final reading of the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. Unfortunately, Nicole McKee, who sat on the select committee, can\u2019t be here tonight, as she would have wanted to have been. I\u2019m sure she\u2019s a passionate member of the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI was a policeman in Nelson in 2009 when Wendy Hamer was viciously attacked. And while I wasn\u2019t directly involved in the inquiry and the investigation, the effect it had on the police and the community was huge. Wendy\u2019s strength to not only survive but to launch a petition for victims\u2019 rights was a major influence in this bill, I believe, and it shows an amazing courage and determination. I\u2019d have to acknowledge Nick Smith for his advocacy for Wendy over the years too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill gives victims of insane offenders the same rights as other victims of crime. It allows the victims to be recognised as victims and get fair access to services and entitlements. The rewording of the verdict now accurately reflects the offence, and words do matter. I sat in on a select committee yesterday, and the Police Commissioner stated that mental health call-outs have increased 60 percent in the last five years. Unfortunately, this issue isn\u2019t going to go away. We must continue to put victims first, and we must start looking at the social fabric of our society. I was disappointed to read today the death of a 16-year-old girl in a car accident and a 20-year-old driver who was speeding, texting, over the drink-drive limit, and driving on the wrong side of the road, who was given a four-month and two-week home detention plus a fine. We\u2019ve got a lot of work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s obvious everyone in the Justice Committee worked really hard on this bill, with cross-party support, and special thanks to Louise Upston and Ginny Andersen and the officials from the Ministry of Justice for their advice and their assistance. I understand the bill went back and forth a couple of times to get things right. And a good example that good process produces good law and that laws should not be rushed. A huge thanks to the victims for their perseverance and for submitting and sharing their stories. This outcome is yours and your strength will always be appreciated. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u00227bcd684c075146bda0317dea0b3f7f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bcd684c075146bda0317dea0b3f7f70\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This evening I rise to give my grateful thanks to the Hon Louise Upston for bringing this bill to us in the House. I\u2019m not on the Justice Committee, but I was privileged to be able to sit in, substituting in for one of my colleagues on some of the submissions that were profoundly moving. I don\u2019t mind sharing that some of them brought members of the committee to tears, myself included, and the bravery of these submitters was profound.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EIt was really clear that what had been done to these people was profoundly wrong. By that, I don\u2019t simply mean the acts committed against them, but what the law had done unintentionally. I\u2019m very, very pleased to be able to see those changes come before us this evening. The words \u201Cact proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D are significant, as are the rights of victims. For that reason, I heartily commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b380c67984c94c2ea648185057401b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b380c67984c94c2ea648185057401b94\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll be very brief. I want to acknowledge my colleague Louise Upston. At the end of the day, if a family member is assaulted, is badly injured, or is even killed, and they turn up to court and they hear a verdict \u201CNot guilty on account of insanity\u201D, all they hear is not guilty. That\u2019s all that they hear. There\u2019s no one that\u2019s actually been held to account. Louise Upston recognised that, she realised there needed to be a change, the committee\u2019s worked on it, there\u2019s been a very good change now where it is now \u201CAct proven but not criminally responsible on account of insanity\u201D. It means that there is accountability and it means that victims get treated properly inside our criminal justice system and that families feel like they get the justice that they deserve. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u002232588b70029a4e2bad5fe454aa545d80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232588b70029a4e2bad5fe454aa545d80\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill. This is the second time that this House is coming together to pass bills tonight. I\u2019ve had the privilege of speaking on both bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ECan I first start with acknowledging and congratulating the Hon Louise Upston for bringing this important bill to this House, and the contribution from the members across the House. The heart of this bill adjusts for the victims and their families who will go through a lot, and their only mistakes are that they are just the victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis bill aims to better align the treatment of victims of offenders found guilty-insane with the victims of regular offenders of our justice system. It simply addresses an inconsistency. Labour supports this bill because it aligns with our values, because it simply promotes justice and transparency, while also protecting survivors of crime and their community. Tonight is a good night; it\u2019s good to see that at the forefront of our politics is the people and victims, and that when we do that, we do things well. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00223ad96eefd11b4ff7ae7cab434a62cde1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ad96eefd11b4ff7ae7cab434a62cde1\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I\u2019m really conscious of the time so my contribution will be very short. I just want to acknowledge the member, the Hon Louise Upston, for ushering this bill through the House. I want to acknowledge your constituent who brought the issue in the first place and also that of the Hon Nick Smith who was the petitioner that we also dealt with, the two together. I really want to thank all sides of the House. We really did work hard on this. It\u2019s been well described by all the speakers before me. It has been an absolute honour and privilege to be part of this piece of legislation and I really do hope that it brings something forward for those families, for those victims. I hope that it has been a worthwhile process for them and I hope that the courts are able to work with this in the future. So, with that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022020de4b207e145e2ab17a92c16a21377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022020de4b207e145e2ab17a92c16a21377\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I support this bill. It was good to be on the Justice Committee. I know that the member in charge of the bill\u2019s wish is that it passes so that it has a maximum effect, and that in the rare cases that it does pertain to those people involved and the victims, particularly, get the effect of this bill. So I\u2019m not going to speak at all long. I do normally speak to the substance of the bill and things about this bill that are why I support it, but I\u2019m not going to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI do, just like other members, though, want to acknowledge Louise Upston. She\u2019s a fine MP. She\u2019s done a great job here. There are member\u2019s bills and then there are member\u2019s bills\u2014those that are sort of passed to someone and they don\u2019t necessarily have a passion for it, but she has had a huge passion for it. She\u2019s, dare I say it, been very protective of it, in fact, and wanted to ensure that at every stage\u2014it\u2019s had twists and turns, and this bill has had a lot of twists and turns\u2014that the right thing was done. So I do pay tribute to you, Louise. You\u2019ve done a great job here, and this will be, among many other things, a lasting legacy of your contribution in this Parliament\u2014not that you\u2019re going anywhere any time soon at all. But it\u2019s a good bill. I support it. It was great to be a small part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd1cd51a4294b2d88b0387bc5c8de41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd1cd51a4294b2d88b0387bc5c8de41\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to take a very short call on this Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Bill, and again I want to commend the member for bringing this bill to the House. This is an important issue that she\u2019s addressed with dignity and respect. It\u2019s shown the best side of Parliament, really, with the collaboration that parliamentarians have shown on the select committee. The bill as it stands is well thought through. It\u2019s not a simple change, it is a thorough change that allows what I see as a very well thought-out and thorough law to be put into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EJust to reiterate some of the points that my colleagues have said, the reason that Labour supports this is that we do think that this bill does look towards increasing justice for victims and for their families, increases transparency. It also increases and really focuses on a victim-centred approach. So I think that\u2019s really important. So, in conclusion, we support this bill. We commend the committee for their incredibly hard work, and you would have seen the amount of expertise and knowledge that members both on the Government side and on the Opposition side have in relation to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAlso, just to finish off by acknowledging the victims of insane offenders. This is why we\u2019re here debating this bill today. It\u2019s for them. It\u2019s to focus on them, and it\u2019s to make their journey a little bit easier. Nothing can take away the trauma that people suffer when they\u2019re victims of insane offenders. What we can do is make sure that the laws we put in place when these people are facing the criminal justice system are sensitive to the needs of families and look towards making the best of a really terrible situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I personally support this bill. I think that it will make the journey much, much easier for many people as they go through what has obviously been a very, very difficult time. And so, in conclusion, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002218fcdef4af294dd99db313f3d042b063\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218fcdef4af294dd99db313f3d042b063\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is suspended and I will resume the Chair at 9 a.m. tomorrow for the extended sitting. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208b401a3be23cc42cead142c740d143001000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.56 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229911da4d0940424f9d61ff4f7cedefa5\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 8 DECEMBER 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224080d8bcf914c7798fd19caf2d90fcf\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 9 December 2021)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022270b073a5f004089a361a8717f762346\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae60cc0b06904a5c817f4e35b61378ff\u0022\u003EContinuation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb4ece87739a4343b6470c3b25eb86e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb4ece87739a4343b6470c3b25eb86e2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 is continued and that the relevant period under section 3(2)(b) of that Act is the period ending 30 June 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe COVID-19 Public Health Response Act was passed in the early stages of the global pandemic. It is the law that gives the Government of the day the ability to issue orders around things like vaccination, around testing, around quarantine at the border, around pre-departure testing, and around all of those other things that might be required to manage the ongoing effects of a global pandemic. Because of the sweeping nature of the powers contained within that legislation, additional safeguards were built into it. One is that the law itself expires. It has a sunset provision, which means that the Government will have to determine\u2014and that sunset provision\u2019s currently set for, I think, mid-2023. The Government would either have to come back to the House with another bill to renew that legislation, or it will disappear. It also has a requirement for periodic renewal by the House. That means that, roughly, every six months the Government has to present to the House a motion like the one we are presenting now, which allows for the Act to be continued. So we are currently proposing that the Act be continued until the middle of next year, by which point we will either have to pass another motion to continue to extend it or again it will expire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe global pandemic has created huge disruption around the world and here in New Zealand. I think there are many people, myself included, who look forward to the day when the global pandemic is over and life can get back to normal and we can all get back to doing the things that we all love and enjoy. The reality is that the global pandemic is not yet over and we don\u2019t know when it will be over. There is still significant uncertainty, and particularly uncertainty around the potential for new variants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOmicron has appeared, and we still have yet to fully understand it. We do know that it\u2019s likely to be more infectious. More people are likely to get it. Anecdotally, we\u2019re seeing evidence that more fully vaccinated people will also get it. What we don\u2019t yet know, though, is what the effect of that will be. Is it more viral than earlier variants? Does it have a greater health impact or does it potentially have less of a health impact? That is still a big, unknown question, and we\u2019ll learn more about Omicron over the coming weeks and months. So we need to be ready to adapt and evolve, depending on what that new information, what that new research, and what that new evidence tells us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, New Zealand is incredibly well placed. So we have very low rates of transmission in the community. We have a very high rate of vaccination. We have good surveillance testing, and it\u2019s encouraging to see that our surveillance testing rates are remaining very high, and so we are well positioned. Next year, we do want to be able to, early in the year, open up the international border and see much greater movement in and out of New Zealand again, and we\u2019ve set out a pathway to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMany of the things that we are doing now still require this legislation to be in place. For example, the requirement, at the most basic level, for people to be either vaccinated or to get a pre-departure test\u2014so for New Zealand citizens, they will need a pre-departure test before they come home to New Zealand; for non-citizens, they will need to be fully vaccinated. Just that requirement alone depends on this Act continuing to be in existence. The traffic light framework, which New Zealanders are all now becoming familiar with, requires this legislation to be in place. The vaccination requirements that exist for our front-line border workers and for many of those other workforces require this legislation to be in place. So we are not yet through the global pandemic and, therefore, the need for the powers that are in this legislation to remain in place still exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI do want to say, as I\u2019ve said on many occasions in the House, that I acknowledge that these are extraordinary times and that this is an extraordinary piece of legislation. It is one that in an open and liberal democracy, we should aim to have on the statute book only as long as it is absolutely essential to have it. This should not be seen as the beginning of a different way of doing things for New Zealand and is certainly not the way the Government views it. We view this as being a necessity at this point, but it should only be available to the Government for as long as it is an absolute necessity. As soon as more regular decision-making processes can resume, we should absolutely be doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo I have a mixed degree of emotion in moving this motion in the House today, because as the person who has the weight of the responsibility of making orders under this legislation sitting on my shoulders, I am very much looking forward to the day when that will no longer be the case. Unfortunately, that is not today. So that is the reason why the Government is proposing to extend the life of this Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222ebaa08bd6174331b0ff68fd4a540a72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ebaa08bd6174331b0ff68fd4a540a72\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022665e43363c2747f0a43e89cd87976e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665e43363c2747f0a43e89cd87976e5e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The National Party will be opposing the extension of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020, which, as the Minister for COVID-19 Response notes, was passed in a time of extraordinary circumstances in New Zealand and around the world, and, as he notes, the pandemic continues. The Act has been changed, most recently last week or the week before, to give the Government the framework, the apparatus, to implement the traffic light framework. So the Act has undergone quite some amendments in the last 18 months since the pandemic started, and the Act is now a reasonably complicated Act to decipher. You have to go into the orders that passed under the Act to make sense of it as well. In some ways, that is, of course, a consequence of the fact that the Act was passed very quickly, but the variety of amendments that have been made to the Act have made it a complicated one to decipher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe will be opposing this for three major reasons. The first is in relation to mandate and vaccine certificates, and I want to spend a little bit of time dwelling on this. One thing that has become very clear from the last couple of weeks is that there is real unease in quite some segments of our community around the division created by the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Now, at a level, that is always going to be the case. We don\u2019t have mandatory vaccination in New Zealand, for the general population\u2014we have it in some circumstances for people doing particular jobs\u2014and I\u2019ve never seen the Government, to be fair to them, put forward the proposition that we should mandate vaccination. Vaccination\u2019s a choice; that would run into extraordinary New Zealand Bill of Rights Act problems, let alone the ethics and the morality of doing that, although I note that some countries are actually looking at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo the Government has never put that forward as a serious proposition. But the reality of a population where 90 percent, 92 percent\u2014hopefully, more\u2014of people choose to be vaccinated does create some real issues in terms of division between those who choose to be vaccinated and those who choose not to be vaccinated, and that is made more complicated by the legal regime that the Government has instituted, which is the traffic light framework, which gives extraordinary freedoms to those vaccinated, but has the converse effect of creating quite some restrictions for those who are unvaccinated. There is unease in the community about this. In a funny way\u2014well, not a funny way; in a way, it is inimical to the traditional notions of freedom of movement, freedom of association, in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo one question that I think is going to become increasingly important to answer in the coming weeks and months as our vaccination rate goes to 90 percent double dose in many regions, and countrywide and beyond, is at what point do the mandates and the vaccine certificates fall away? We\u2019re just a little bit behind the rest of the world in this, because even Daniel Andrews in Victoria is now talking about the time at which the need for certificates and the need for mandates will fall away. They\u2019re talking around the 90 percent figure; well, we are soon going to be at that figure. Vaccine mandates have been used as a blunt mechanism to drive up vaccination rates in New Zealand. But at some level, the need for them will fall away. I\u2019m not positing a particular view here, I\u2019m not suggesting a threshold\u2014I don\u2019t have access to the public health advice that the Government has\u2014but I think we are going to confront that question at some point in the next few weeks and months, and we\u2019re going to have to have an answer from the Government as to how long that legal regime is going to continue for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, this motion extends the Act through to 30 June 2022, and I\u2019m telling the House now that between now and 30 June 2020, we are going to have to have a good discussion as a polity and as a Parliament around those certificates and those mandates and how long they\u2019re ongoing use is going to be necessary for, because there is quite some community unease out there around it. Personally, I\u2019m a supporter of vaccination certificates; I\u2019m actually very comfortable if bars and restaurants and hairdressers choose to use them based on the principles of private property, free enterprise. If a barber wants to say, \u201CYou can only come here if you\u2019re vaccinated.\u201D, I would support that, and, frankly, I\u2019d probably\u2014I don\u2019t go to a barbers\u2014only go to a hairdresser that chose to do that. The hairdresser I\u2019m going to tomorrow, because I\u2019m desperate for a haircut\u2014I know my hairdresser would do the same thing, because we\u2019ve had a conversation around it, and they would choose to do that. There\u2019ll be others who don\u2019t. There\u2019ll be other hairdressers who will say, \u201CActually, you know what? I\u2019m comfortable cutting the hair of someone who is unvaccinated, because I\u2019m vaccinated.\u201D, and maybe they\u2019ll have to have a test. So we\u2019re going to have to have a conversation around that. So that\u2019s the first issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second issue is the Act continues the highly restrictive border regime that we have at the moment, and it\u2019s the National\u2019s Party\u2019s view that the time has come to dismantle the very complicated regime to do with managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) that the Act allows. Our view is that MIQ made sense in April-June\u2014most of 2020; in fact, most of this year\u2014but, increasingly, makes little sense. Here are the numbers: 27 people who are border cases are in quarantine right now out of 4,000 or so rooms. Just 27\u2014I think it was 38 a couple of weeks ago; it\u2019s now down to 27. There are 308 community cases of COVID in quarantine facilities, but there are over 2,000 people isolating at home with COVID, in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo we have a situation where fully vaccinated travellers are coming into New Zealand, having passed the pre-departure test\u2014so they\u2019ve got no COVID, at least when they get on the plane\u2014they\u2019re fully vaccinated, they arrive in New Zealand, and they are going into MIQ facilities even though they don\u2019t have COVID; whereas people with COVID who test positive in the community as part of this outbreak isolate at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJust yesterday, the Parliament considered an urgent debate in relation to the treatment of people with COVID in the community. What we know from the Northern Region Health Coordination Centre\u2019s report is that treatment is lamentable at the moment and should be better, and the reality is those people, many of them, would be better treated in quarantine facilities, but they can\u2019t be there because the quarantine facilities are being taken up by people who are fully vaccinated, without COVID\u2014which doesn\u2019t make a lot of sense. And that\u2019s even before you consider the enormous hardship caused by the MIQ regime generally, and everyone in this Parliament will know someone, or know a family or a constituent, who has been affected by these highly restricted border settings. I call it the lottery of human misery, and I call it that for a good reason, which is that it is a lottery and it does create enormous human misery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo our view is that we should be dismantling MIQ. I really worry about whether or not it is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. There\u2019s a case that I know the Attorney-General will be aware of from grounded Kiwis that\u2019s going to be heard in the new year. I think that will consider that particular issue. The legal talk around Wellington is that the Crown is very worried about this case, because, as Murray Bolton showed in his case, which dealt with a particular set of circumstances, I know, but really exposed the Crown\u2019s legal risk when it comes to the consistency of the MIQ regime with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which, of course, gives rights to New Zealand citizens to return to New Zealand. So we oppose the continuation of the Act on those grounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThen the third thing, very briefly, the requisition of testing capacity clause, which Parliament again recently passed and will now be extended by this motion, is abhorrent to the rule of law and private property. It\u2019s the Rako Science theft clause. It gives the Government the power to steal their property basically because they don\u2019t like the fact that they\u2019ve been calling out the Government\u2019s lamentable response to saliva testing. That is not a sensible position. It is not a morally just provision. We opposed the bill to put that in place in the first place, and therefore we oppose the continuation of the Act as well. Therefore, we will not be supporting this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd32d17c6a8947fe9cda636cf03f624e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd32d17c6a8947fe9cda636cf03f624e\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. On behalf of the Greens, I rise in support of this motion. This does provide the framework we need for vaccine mandates and certificates, but I very much look forward to the day when we do not need any of those things. This is the world we\u2019re in right now and for the foreseeable future. I know from the experts that we\u2019re talking to that this is years and not months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EWe have stood by the Government consistently in this strong health response. We\u2019re proud of our record compared to the rest of the world in terms of fewer case numbers, hospitalisations, and deaths. We particularly acknowledge how hard our health workforce have been working and we\u2019re really, really proud of our iwi and Pasifika community and health providers and disability workers on the ground. We would not be where we are without them. But we have raised our concerns with the detail of some of these strategies, particularly the lack of a Te Tiriti o Waitangi focus or an equity approach, which would have seen much quicker vaccinations for M\u0101ori, and we wouldn\u2019t be in the situation we are now with counting down every day to see where our numbers are at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003ENext week, the Auckland border will be flung open, and we echo the voices of iwi leaders that say, \u201CPlease, do not holiday in places with low vaccination rates, even if that might mean not being able to go home and see your wh\u0101nau. Please think of the health of that wh\u0101nau and the health of those communities before you head over there.\u201D, because we\u2019re in the honeymoon period right now. We\u2019re seeing case numbers coming down, but we know that it won\u2019t be long before we see the spike happen again. That happens every time that there\u2019s a relaxation, either of the alert levels or, in this case, it\u2019ll be the Auckland border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EMoving forward, we hope to see a really tight suppression strategy outside of Auckland so that where cases occur, they\u2019re stamped out and people are very much looked after, because we do not accept that COVID should just be allowed to spread in the rest of the country, and we\u2019ll see what happens. People are at home, and we let that continue just enough until the health system is not overwhelmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EBut I want to focus mostly on home isolation. We had our special debate yesterday about the deaths that happened in Auckland\u2014largely preventable deaths\u2014and we do not want to see that happening any more, and we know that the health system has done a lot of work in addressing those, and some of the issues that were raised in the report had already been in place by the time the report was released. However, for those of us who live in the regions, those of us who live in rural areas, we know that we don\u2019t have access to the same health support as some of the cities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve seen, already, the capacity that\u2019s required to get our people tested, to get our people vaccinated\u2014we\u2019re going to need even more needed for people who have positive cases and are in their homes. Who\u2019s looking after their wh\u0101nau? How on earth do they self-isolate in areas where there\u2019s a massive housing crisis and, for example, in the Tai R\u0101whiti, where many of the motels are already used up as emergency housing. Where are these people going\u2014and a shout-out to those people who are coming up with really innovative solutions, and particularly marae who are opening their doors for wh\u0101nau who are not positive, so it allows their positive person to stay home, and then they can be somewhere else that\u2019s safe and they can eat and get on with the rest of their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to need much more resource going into looking after those people, because that\u2019s the goal. People might get sick; they get looked after. They have proper health professionals doing the assessments of them. They have GPs who are resourced to actually go and visit them to check on them. If they\u2019re given something like an oximeter to use, they\u2019re properly trained in it, and the technology that\u2019s required to run all of the system to monitor all the people who are staying at home\u2014those systems are all in place, they\u2019re well tested, and all the technology is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EI just wanted to finish to talk about the border. I think of it as a type of insurance that if we need to clamp down because, for example, Omicron is coming, but there\u2019ll be other variants. This virus is not going anywhere. It\u2019s very dynamic and clever, and so we totally support people having shorter stays. We agree with our colleagues who say, \u201CWell, why on earth are we taking up beds of low-risk, fully vaccinated people in MIQ when there\u2019s many, many more of our wh\u0101nau who need to come home?\u201D We absolutely support our people coming back to this country. We definitely support more health workers being brought into the country to supplement our workforce. However, we do not agree with the dismantling of that infrastructure. We think we\u2019re going to need it for quite a while longer, and if there\u2019s room left over after all our people have come home, then we absolutely need a backup space to put our positive cases who have nowhere else to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EI hope that we don\u2019t have many more times that this bill continues to come back into the House, but in the meantime we support this. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00221b36244e409f4ab0b00e398066753534\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b36244e409f4ab0b00e398066753534\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to this motion to continue the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act. Just to put it into a bit of perspective for anyone who may have woken up, switched on the telly, and wondered why Parliament is sitting at 9 in the morning, this motion is to continue the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act that, very wisely, has a self-extinguishing clause. So every 90 days, if Parliament doesn\u2019t actively put it back in place, then the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act extinguishes itself. I actually think all laws should have something like that\u2014perhaps not every 90 days, but if we had to look at the laws that we have on a periodic basis, I suspect a lot of them would not be continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, the ACT Party, I think it\u2019s fair to say, has taken a constructive and consistent approach to this law throughout its life. We initially voted for it when it was introduced to first reading last year\u2014I think it was last June. We did that because we saw that it was better for Parliament to write down what the law was than to have the Government making it up ad hoc. We know that, for example, the initial lockdown last March was actually illegal, and the Attorney-General at that time was slammed as one of the worst performing Ministers by senior journalists at the end of the year because they couldn\u2019t get the paperwork right. That\u2019s been a theme throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo we thought, look, passing a law that actually tells people what the procedures are and what their rights are was consistent with a free society, and we thought it would be good to have. But we also asked, while this law was initially being debated last June, if some concessions could be made. For example, if somebody was going to be an enforcement officer under that law, we wanted them to be accountable as well\u2014totally unaccountable. ACT ended up opposing the law in the third reading because they weren\u2019t prepared to play ball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut once it was in place, we said, \u201COK, look, we\u2019ll watch how the Government uses it, and if they don\u2019t abuse the law, then we\u2019ll keep voting to roll it over.\u201D So we have, because we\u2019ve felt that actually, while there are many failings in the implementation, we didn\u2019t feel that the Government had abused this COVID-19 Public Health Response Act, and therefore we kept voting for it to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EToday, we\u2019re voting that it should not continue, and there\u2019s a few reasons for that. Most of them stem from the way that it\u2019s recently been expanded, and there\u2019s a couple of changes in the COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Act (No 2) that was rushed through Parliament under great urgency just last month that I think are inconsistent with a free and democratic society. Now, we heard Chris Hipkins, and he\u2019s sort of like that guy in the cartoon that\u2019s got the angel on one shoulder and Beelzebub on the other. He knows that he wants to be a parliamentarian and a democrat, and uphold the tenets of a free society, but then someone goes and makes them do all this crazy stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOne of them is the fact that this law now allows the Government to confiscate people\u2019s property. Actually, when you read it carefully\u2014and I don\u2019t know whether the Attorney-General has been through this whole saga, to be honest\u2014it actually allows the Government to direct a person to do particular things. I\u2019ve had at least one QC tell me he thinks that, arguably, it is enslavement of citizens. Well, I\u2019ll leave that to one side. The idea that the Government can just take a business\u2019s property beyond all the usual commandeering and emergency measures that Governments have already, was deliberately set out as utu because the Government was in what I call a spat with the saliva testing company, Rako Science. I just think that\u2019s disgraceful. I\u2019m proud that this side of Parliament acted, and our National Party friends actually stood up and said, \u201CThat\u2019s wrong. We oppose it.\u201D, because no one on that side of the bench could stand up for any kind of principle, either because they weren\u2019t allowed to by somebody, or perhaps they just hadn\u2019t seen it. I think that law has to fall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the first reason. The Government shouldn\u2019t go around pinching people\u2019s stuff. In a free society, the Government\u2019s supposed to stop other people pinching your stuff, not join in with it, which is what this Labour Government is now doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe second thing I say is that in that law, when it was amended last month, were new provisions that a person can be made what\u2019s called an enforcement officer, and that person can become a road-blocker, for want of a better term. That person can go and set up a roadblock and stop other New Zealanders from exercising their New Zealand Bill of Rights Act ability to move freely about the country. That person can actually stop you going up North\u2014perhaps to your home\u2014and check your vaccination status. I think that that is absolutely wrong. The only time it\u2019s justified to have your New Zealand Bill of Rights Act right to move around the country limited is when it\u2019s justified in a free and democratic society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, here\u2019s the thing: in a free and democratic society, we have official advice from the Director-General of Health about what the public health requirements actually are. The Director-General of Health, we now know, because he told the Waitangi Tribunal\u2014although the Government would never release public health advice within two weeks of receiving it to the rest of New Zealand. But the Waitangi Tribunal found out that just two weeks ago, Ashley Bloomfield said that the Auckland border has served its purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo here\u2019s the question for the Government: why are they setting up these police- or is it iwi-led checkpoints? Is it the case that there is a public health need and that iwi are helping out as enforcement officers? Or is it the case that Hone Harawira, who represents no one\u2014and we\u2019ve actually tested this, because we had a general election and the people of Te Tai Tokerau voted him out\u2014is saying, \u201CI\u2019m going to do it anyway.\u201D, and the Government has decided to save face by sending the cops along to babysit them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis stuff really matters at a constitutional level. It\u2019s not clear who is truly directing the police anymore. Are the police there because Hone Harawira has decided to set up a checkpoint, or because Ashley Bloomfield thinks there\u2019s a public health justification? Well, we know it\u2019s not Ashley, so what, by source of elimination, is the remaining answer? Does this mean that anyone who\u2019s got a grievance against Government policy can block the roads and the cops will come along and help? Because if that\u2019s the case, we have abandoned the conventions of the rule of law that have stood New Zealand in good stead for many generations, and it\u2019s happened on that Attorney-General\u2019s watch. I think that is shameful. That\u2019s why this law cannot continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut then there are wider questions around COVID management. Is this Government really still up to the task? I\u2019m sure that the Labour members on the Government bench are getting some of the same public opinion research\u2014well, actually, we know they are, because we just received an Official Information Act response, and it\u2019s a doozy\u2014that is saying that the public no longer have faith in this Government\u2019s COVID response. That\u2019s the truth, folks. That\u2019s the truth. Because they\u2019ve watched a Government that thought that they had it all under control, that Delta would never get here, and if it did, managed isolation and quarantine would stop it, and if it got through, the vaccines would be ready. None of that was true. So now it\u2019s helter-skelter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, this morning, Andrew Little actually had to call in to breakfast TV. You wouldn\u2019t believe this. I don\u2019t know; you guys probably don\u2019t know about this. He actually had to call in and dispute what the nurses are saying, that actually the hospitals aren\u2019t fine\u2014\u201CWe\u2019re very stressed because you just froze our pay as inflation took off.\u201D That\u2019s another wee problem with the COVID management response. You\u2019re so disorganised, we don\u2019t have saliva testing in the hospitals at the right time. I mean, the old health Minister went off mountain biking in the middle of a pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe public, the nurses, everybody is losing confidence in this Government\u2019s management of COVID. It is so incoherent. There are so many things that just don\u2019t make sense. For example, this law allows the Government to make rules about the response at the border. Now, riddle me this: it\u2019s not safe for vaccinated, negative-tested New Zealanders to come into the country and to isolate at home, but it will be on 16 January. It is safe right now for New Zealanders who we know have COVID, because the Government tested them and they were positive, to isolate at home. So thousands of people are missing out on opportunities, missing out on work\u2014oh, but here\u2019s the thing, and here\u2019s this Attorney-General who has got so much to answer for. I hope he will get up and take a call. Because if you go to court and ask the right questions, none of those rules apply to you. Who designed that law? Why isn\u2019t it consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? Well, the courts don\u2019t think it is, and they\u2019ve got real trouble coming in the new year, as one of my colleagues alluded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo this Government doesn\u2019t deserve this law anymore. They are not competent or capable of managing it. The public increasingly see it, and they are going to see more of the kind of defiance that they got from BusinessNZ this morning, because everyone knows that this Government is trying to back out, but its back\u2019s against the wall. That\u2019s why this law should be withdrawn. The Parliament shouldn\u2019t let them have it, and I can\u2019t wait to see what\u2019s about to come. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb5b0aa9fa67484f86f1cf9874fb0ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb5b0aa9fa67484f86f1cf9874fb0ead\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As my colleague has advised, we will be opposing this bill. The three prime reasons are the scope of the mandate and the life cycle that goes with it; the second point is the managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) disconnect, which I may come back to, which my colleague has spoken to here, with returning travellers; and the third point is the requisition of privately held equipment\u2014effectively, the nationalisation of private possessions and property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think that another reason we\u2019re going to struggle to support this bill is that we haven\u2019t been a learning environment during this COVID outbreak. What that means is that what we\u2019re doing here is that we\u2019re being asked to roll over legislation that may have been approved in some areas but that in others clearly hasn\u2019t. I want to point to some areas that I think should have been approved if we were to be a learning environment and doing more than just rolling over default legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn particular, I\u2019ve been interested in the part of this bill that commissions the testing procedures both offshore and onshore. If I start with offshore first of all, the pre-departure testing, it has continued to elude us why rapid antigen testing was an accepted pre-departure test but has not been ubiquitous in New Zealand. How can we rationalise that? How can we say, \u201CYes, this is a test that you can have legitimately at Heathrow Airport, or wherever you wish, we\u2019ll accept it, but here in New Zealand, no, we don\u2019t accept it.\u201D? That\u2019s really hard to understand, I\u2019m afraid. There\u2019s a number of reasons why we\u2019ve got issues with rapid antigen testing; some of which, I believe, will only come to see sunlight with a royal commission of inquiry, and, I imagine, it will be along the lines of what the Office of the Attorney-General found with saliva testing\u2014that there\u2019s been unexplainable hurdles that haven\u2019t followed the science, and I think rapid antigen testing is going down that same path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to talk to the onshore testing as well and whether we really want to roll over the default positions that we have at the moment. I want to talk to the testing in MIQ, which has sort of expanded from what was initially pre-departure, offshore, day zero, day one, day three, day five, then day eight was added, and day 12. The argument to\u2014and I still don\u2019t understand why day three testing is voluntary in MIQ, why it\u2019s the one voluntary test. It should be mandatory right on day one; I find no plausible explanation for that. But the default response has been, through all of testing, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, we do day 12 testing. That exit testing before people leave MIQ saves everything. If we\u2019ve missed something in day three, don\u2019t worry, we\u2019ll pick it up in day 12.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the problem I\u2019ve got with that, and it talks to us still not knowing the portal by which Delta entered New Zealand in the first place\u2014here\u2019s the problem I\u2019ve got with day 12 testing and that answer that it is our safety net\u2014\u201CDon\u2019t worry, we\u2019ve got day 12 testing.\u201D The problem I\u2019ve got is that from 1 April, when Delta arrived, through to 3\u00A0September, 191 people didn\u2019t have day 12 testing. How can that be? If it\u2019s our safety net, if it\u2019s \u201CDon\u2019t worry, we\u2019ll do the day 12 testing.\u201D, why did 191 people not receive their day 12 test?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, if you look at this a bit further, it turns out that 34 of them had their test done in hospital. That\u2019s fine. We can take that off the list. For 44 of them, the test was not required, because it had been done before day 12, like within 24 hours or so. That\u2019s a reasonable explanation as well. That still leaves 113 people who didn\u2019t have a day 12 test. Let\u2019s drill into them a bit more. It turns out that 32 of them were aged six months to 17 years; 14 were exempted on clinical grounds, four were exempted because they didn\u2019t give consent\u2014how can you not give consent to a day 12? And, by the way, they didn\u2019t stay for another 14 days, which is what happens if you don\u2019t have a day 12 test; you just stay till 28 days. Four didn\u2019t give their consent, and 63 were aged under six months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s that category that I want to just look into for a moment and put to the Government that instead of just rolling over the current legislation, maybe we should be doing a better job here, because those under-six-monthers\u2014the 63\u2014it\u2019s not that we don\u2019t test children under six months; we actually do. It turns out that 17 under-six-month-olds had received a nasopharyngeal test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhat we do for six-monthers, if you\u2019re worried that it\u2019s the same sort of thing that we do for adults, is we use what\u2019s called a high-turbinate swab, which is a much gentler swab. It doesn\u2019t go quite as far back into the infant\u2019s nasopharynx, and we get a result from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EMy concern here is that\u2014instead of Australia, that has said everyone who enters their MIQ, be you an infant, an adult, whatever, you are all tested\u2014we still have this pervasive rule that infants under six months don\u2019t need to be tested. That\u2019s the concern I\u2019ve got. We know they catch Delta, because we had a six-weeker in Northland base hospital, but we still have the policy that infants under six months don\u2019t have to be swabbed in MIQ. Seventeen clearly said, \u201COh, I\u2019m worried. I\u2019m going to go ahead and do that.\u201D That\u2019s fine. But that still leaves a large number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EMy question I\u2019m raising is: is this the mechanism by which Delta entered New Zealand? Did it inadvertently actually come from an infant who wasn\u2019t swabbed, by exemption, and that\u2019s how it entered New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIf I look into that a little bit more, if we look at the 17 August outbreak and look at a month before that, so let\u2019s choose our prime period when we\u2019re most concerned about Delta coming into New Zealand in this current outbreak. We know it came from New South Wales, so we can filter it down a bit more. How many people in that month before our current outbreak came from New South Wales into New Zealand and didn\u2019t have a swab? The answer to that is two. There were two people who in that key period, just before Delta came here, were not swabbed when they came into New Zealand. One was a child aged under six months, and the other had their day 12 test completed at a hospital. So we know at least one infant under six months came from New South Wales, where our Delta variant, we know genomically, outbreak started, in that month before our outbreak started, and exited MIQ without being tested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIs it possible, inadvertently, that that is actually where our outbreak started? If it is, I\u2019d commend to the Government that rather than rolling over pervasively what we accept as the best policies, maybe we should look at Australia, who\u2019ve said, \u201CNo, no, no, everyone, even infants, need to be swabbed if they enter isolation. The risk is too great.\u201D We shouldn\u2019t have this arbitrary six-month cut-off; we should be using the high-turbinate swabs for infants, and just shut down that other possible mechanism for infection in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo this is but one example of the learning that we haven\u2019t undertaken, that we haven\u2019t adopted and taken on board to improve the legislation that we\u2019re being asked to approve here this morning, and it becomes one of the reasons why we\u2019re going to struggle with this bill and why we\u2019re saying a no today. There are some good things that have been done\u2014don\u2019t get me wrong\u2014but there are also some holes, some gaps that are still there. This is the sort of legislation that should be fixing those gaps before we just sign them through the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why it\u2019s a no from me. That\u2019s why it\u2019s a no from us on this side of the House, on behalf of the National Party. We need to be a learning environment and take into account all the findings that we have, so that we truly bring the science to this sort of outbreak, to the protections that New Zealanders are asking us to put forward, and simply we need to be doing a better job. Take on board that this is us offering collaborative suggestions with hard data as to how we can do a better job. That\u2019s the mode that you\u2019re seeing here. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221576f4148d2849ae9a2f7afc65727309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221576f4148d2849ae9a2f7afc65727309\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call as to why it is necessary to extend the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECould I point out the irony of the comments from Dr Shane Reti. Dr Shane Reti is a very competent doctor and physician who has practised at leading teaching institutions internationally and really does know his onions about these issues. When he criticises the testing regime of the Government, the Government does listen. He just said that we need to do more testing pursuant to rules that Government set at the very time when his leader is forcing him to vote against a bill that is the legislative framework that sets out those testing regimes. Those testing regimes are found in orders that are passed under the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act, and if that Act drops away, you can\u2019t do it, Dr Reti. I think Dr Reti knows that, but this is part of the Luxon let-it-rip campaign where they\u2019re\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fed2556d3964c5c9fdef8e9d780a7df\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d1a18f821ca418f88f3415dc88462ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there must have been a decision taken by the leader. I cannot believe that in the first two weeks of a new leader, the new leader is not responsible for this change of position by the National Party whereby they are saying that the Act\u2014until now we have had relative agreement across the House that we need the powers that sit in the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I deal with what I thought was quite an unnecessarily cynical and, at times, personal attacks from the leader from the ACT Party. The ACT Party, of course, has got absolutely no credibility on these issues because they again voted against the original Act. They\u2019ve always opposed the legislative framework that has underlined the exceptional performance of New Zealand which has relied upon the rule of law which has flowed from the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I can understand him maintaining the consistent position he has, that he opposes the Act, but for him to misrepresent\u2014for him to misrepresent\u2014in this very important debate what he knows is incorrect because he heard the answers from the Prime Minister and from Minister Hipkins earlier in the week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214201c2ed3934820a6f3dfb594ffd9cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. Order! Order! Order! I hesitate to interrupt the Minister, but he has accused a member of deliberately misrepresenting something in this House, and that is something that he cannot do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df34e8b20cc54b55b745e1a686bdcb95\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take back that it was deliberate, but for him to be so incompetent as to misrepresent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c361adbc9ad24d05be32d2a943dd071c\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: He can\u2019t debate it\u2014can\u2019t debate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270eeb406b9b44519b390049d83da10b1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014what has been explained in the House; when he attributed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217c440dd0cd74e10a447ffa265807f54\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s he get away with debating that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b1e0f8159234477b06260b975f15fb0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry. David Bennett, I have ruled on a matter. The member is relatively ignorant of the rules of the House. He should not attempt to correct me as while another member is speaking. He knows if he has a point of view he takes a point of order, but he also knows that if he takes a point of order, he will be ridiculed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a29e17637664a1f802bab295d69c368\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point that the ACT leader, David Seymour, made in his contribution was to attribute to the Director-General of Health a statement that the border around Auckland should go and that it wasn\u2019t necessary. He knows that that is a misrepresentation of what the director-general said because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223611d809ed3a408593808bb7a98c1564\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! Well, yeah. I am going to ask the Attorney-General to take some more care with his wording. Just to make absolutely clear: people can and do make mistakes in this House and misrepresent things; the difference is if they knowingly do it or deliberately do it then that\u2019s a breach of privilege and you cannot accuse someone of a breach of privilege by way of a speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e59b7ae4974a39a3faac68785f6ea7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that, thank you. He should know that that is a misrepresentation of what the director-general said, because he was in Parliament when that was explained by both the Prime Minister and the Minister the Hon Chris Hipkins, because that statement was for the release of that border in mid-December, which is what is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also been repeated accusations that somehow the Government\u2019s imposing a higher level of restriction post the release of that border by transitioning different parts of New Zealand not at green. Again, that misrepresents the advice of the director-general because it attributes to the later advice the earlier advice, and the director-general changed his advice in the meantime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I also point out that Chris Bishop says that we should be again letting it rip, doing away with managed isolation and quarantine. Pursuant to that, he said that from his point of view, there\u2019s only 27 active cases in managed isolation and quarantine at moment that have come across the border. The point that the Government has made repeatedly is that those 27 cases released into the community would seed cases into the community. They would seed cases into the community in areas where we are not having to deal with outbreaks at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of this idea that somehow we could repeal this Act or not allow it to continue and properly manage pandemic is just incorrect, because the underlying health legislation\u2014as most people, I think, in New Zealand understand and accept\u2014is not suitable for dealing with the COVID outbreak. The Health Act powers that would then default are much less granular, and in some ways they are not subject to the same checks and protections that arise under the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to list the protections that are in this Act that would not be in the underlying law. One, it makes Ministers rather than the director-general responsible for the main orders under it. That ministerial responsibility is very important; it requires the Minister to be satisfied that each and every order that the Minister makes is justified under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It limits the powers in the Act to the COVID pandemic. The Act self-repeals every 90 days so that we can have a debate like this in the House. Orders made under it are revoked unless Parliament, within 60 days, generally\u2014generally it happens a lot faster than that, but up to 60 days, generally. Unless the orders are endorsed by Parliament, they are revoked. The Act puts the orders under it within the purview of the Regulations Review Committee, chaired by an Opposition member, and if I could compliment the work that Chris Penk has done in that role and the work that the committee has done. Those reports on each order come to the House, and the drafting of subsequent orders and the terms of them have been improved as a consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill expressly preserves the role of the court to judge orders against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and requires orders to minimise intrusions into civil liberties. When we passed the Act, we even went to the trouble of replacing me as Attorney-General for the purposes of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and it got a clean New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report because it was proportionate to the crisis that we are facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe do not shy away from the rights of citizens to challenge these orders through the courts. We\u2019ve expressly preserved their right to do that and we engage in those court cases. By and large, the actions of the executive have been upheld by the courts. There have been some areas where there have been criticisms, and those criticisms have been responded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the generalised assertion from the ACT leader that the lockdown in the first nine days was illegal, again, that\u2019s not really a proper way of describing what happened. During the first nine days of the lockdown, the statements by the Prime Minister and Mike Bush at the time encouraging people to stay home in their bubble were not backed by an order under the Health Act; this was before the COVID response Act. The court found that during that first-nine day period, those instructions became increasingly directive, and therefore they were critical that by the end of the nine-day period, they thought that a formal order should have been made earlier. They said it was completely justified to do what had been done, but they found that in respect of that early period, until a second order was made on the Health Act, which expressly was even more directive than the instructions that the Prime Minister and Mike Bush were encouraging people. They said during that period, it crossed the line from encouraging people, as we went into that transition, into a strict lockdown. They said we should have made an order earlier, and we accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWithout this Act in place, we can\u2019t have provisions at the border as we have. We can\u2019t have the self-isolation mandates imposed. Some of these things can\u2019t be done under the Health Act because it\u2019s predicated on a form of quarantine that doesn\u2019t fit the COVID outbreak. This is absolutely necessary to carry this Act forward. I endorse the motion to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8893683426d44479f1715ed3eafee32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8893683426d44479f1715ed3eafee32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfb7edd4c71b42f2ae0c0a00f5caa060\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fafb1b6ad06d46c4b91ba8b19f98f0c6\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd3d9ce015ff47b499d692adc315be49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd3d9ce015ff47b499d692adc315be49\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299f7a3fd64ac46cfabeb9b52793c186d\u0022\u003EResource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab50135973c7459c9c51b076736e38e8\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9858df330b1407ea64eadb97b0e6a54\u0022\u003EPart 1  Urban densification policies and other matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227f23e21ea8b7401e88d81b30e850c0c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f23e21ea8b7401e88d81b30e850c0c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, Part 1. Members, this is the debate on clauses 4 to 12, \u201CUrban densification policies and other matters\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d35bc396a4694383a49df916db985c72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d35bc396a4694383a49df916db985c72\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The ACT Party had a number of questions on behalf of submitters that were raised in the committee stage, and they primarily related to how the bill was going to give effect to the objectives that ACT shares with the Government and with the National Party, which has jointly sponsored the bill\u2014that is, in order to actually deliver the number of houses, somewhere between 48,000 and a 100,000-odd homes; and we\u2019ve heard the Labour Party promise 100,000 homes on a campaign husting before. But, in order to actually deliver them, what were the problems the bill tried to solve, and was the bill, in the way it was written, actually going to solve them? Was it going to make it easier to build more homes? Was it going to get rid of some of the red tape? Was the bill actually going to simplify the planning processes for private developers and homeowners who might want to subdivide a property that has an existing family home on it and build another one on the back? Was it actually going to make it easier? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOur initial analysis carried out in the few days after the announcement indicated that the bill would actually make it harder to deliver more homes, take longer than the projects already planned and well advanced by many private developers, create a parallel consenting regime in addition to the Resource Management Act (RMA) consenting regime, which still developers must go through for all kinds of matters in addition to actually the shape of the house, and also introduced a new medium density residential standard that was an urban design standard for buildings in residential areas that had never been proposed or tested or consulted on. The problem with actually proposing and developing legislation in secret is that you never actually get to test your ideas out on the people who are most affected, and, actually, those businesses, those developers who have the capability and the capacity to build more homes and to deliver more affordable, better quality homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EDevelopers came to the committee and they made it very clear that their projects\u2014already well-developed, but of course not yet notified; no decisions taken as yet\u2014actually were proposing to deliver, in some cases, 7,000 homes in Hamilton East on the Peacocke subdivision area or the Beachlands South development, one that actually features the New Zealand Superannuation Fund as a finance partner. They told the committee that, actually, this bill was going to make it much harder to deliver their projects because they would not be able to use all of the planning, all of the investigation, all of the technical work that they had done for their master plan developments, which include a mixture of terraced housing, apartments, low density. They would not be able to use that information to comply with the medium density residential standards (MDRS) standard that would be painted on to their subdivisions, because, essentially, it would increase the amount of infrastructure required, the size of the pipes, and the size of the pump stations by up to three times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThey told the committee, \u201CIf you want to build more homes, could you please give us an exemption for our high quality master plan developments delivering modern communities? Could you please give us an exemption for that\u2014or at least, if you must bring us into the scheme, could we be allowed to proceed with our developments without having to go through the RMA? Could we use a fast-tracked planning process?\u201D And, given the number of fast-track planning and consenting processes that this Government has proposed over the past few years, whether it\u2019s the fast-track consenting for COVID19 special projects or whether it\u2019s fast tracking for New Zealand Upgrade projects, this bill actually doesn\u2019t give the private sector the opportunity to fast track. It reserves all of those rights to Government and to councils, and many councils also are seeking exemptions or significant modifications as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022361cfa69f1894c96bfac7aadc09507cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022361cfa69f1894c96bfac7aadc09507cd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the question from Simon Court. The point in respect of a large master plan development, for example, was raised at select committee, and that\u2019s been reported to me. The recommendation of the select committee, which the Government has adopted, is that, effectively, those master-planned areas will get the benefit of the intensification rules that will flow through. So that is achieved, if they\u2019ve got a plan in process, by way of a variation to their plan change. But, of course, they don\u2019t have to build to the intensity; they\u2019re just allowed to. This is an enabling bill, not a requiring bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe5338beadb745a1ab169d720cddab7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe5338beadb745a1ab169d720cddab7f\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, further to that point, I think possibly the Minister has missed two important considerations that people who actually build houses will be well aware of. One is that they may not necessarily have lodged an application at the present time but, none the less, invested large amounts of work, perhaps millions of dollars of planning activity, and a lot of time into master planning a development. So giving them any kind of, I guess, grandfathering clause, which sounds like what the Minister\u2019s proposing, from the current time or sometime into the future, will still \u201Csterilise\u201D\u2014is the word that\u2019s been used in the select committee\u2014some of the plans that are put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that the Minister is right, in one sense, in saying that this is an enabling bill. But one of the misconceptions that seems to have run through the Minister\u2019s commentary on the bill, and the bill in general, is that it\u2019s enabling allowing one standard of zoning density across a wide area. Actually, in a free society people often choose a range of different schemes in order to fulfil their needs. An example of that: some of these master plan developments have said, \u201CWe would like to have a lower density in some parts in order to sell sections that we don\u2019t have to service at any great level of intensity with our infrastructure.\u201D The so-called enablement that this Government is offering, saying, \u201CActually, no. That\u2019s now illegal. You must upgrade all of the density that you had planned.\u201D, throws out of whack the area structure plans\u2014have you heard of area structure planning; that\u2019s really important\u2014all of the infrastructure planning that\u2019s been done for a master plan development. So the Minister\u2019s got to take this stuff seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, it\u2019s a consequence of the way that this bill was done. The Minister knows this, because he\u2019s been approached by people who wanted to do more consultation with councils. He thought it was a good idea but he got rolled by Megan Woods\u2014is the sad irony of all this. He knows what I\u2019m talking about. I want to ask the Minister: is he aware that, first of all, putting back the date for applications that have already been made won\u2019t help those that have been planned, sometimes for a long period of time at great expense, prior to application? Is he concerned he\u2019s going to sterilise master planning that\u2019s been done prior to application? And does he understand that, while the bill notionally is enabling, if it becomes effectively illegal to have some areas of some developments at lower density in support of an infrastructure plan for a development, he\u2019s actually taking away the ability to plan in that way and will sterilise a lot of developments that have been made? Those two questions, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022438c1e89ef1a4e9bb243ae9889132e75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022438c1e89ef1a4e9bb243ae9889132e75\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E No, I don\u2019t accept the assertion that\u2019s made by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6e9aa7836e4a98a9c64fcf8649ec0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6e9aa7836e4a98a9c64fcf8649ec0a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E How can the Minister not accept the assertion made by me\u2014I can understand that; we\u2019re both politicians\u2014when it\u2019s actually also an assertion that\u2019s been made by a large number of people whose actual job is to build houses? This is the issue, right? He can refuse to accept an assertion by me, perhaps, but how can he refuse to accept an assertion made by people who actually build homes\u2014you know, people that have master plan developments who\u2019ve come to the committee and said, \u201CWhat you are doing will sterilise or stop the development or severely delay the development of thousands of homes.\u201D? So is he just refusing to accept the assertion made by me or is he telling those developers they don\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223a53882860a34a8295307961fad6c0fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a53882860a34a8295307961fad6c0fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m telling the member that he\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220a7baa0233c842eabc5c27bef9c6886e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a7baa0233c842eabc5c27bef9c6886e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E If it\u2019s the case, would it be too much of the Minister\u2019s time to stand up and just maybe give an explanation just to those people? I wouldn\u2019t want people to form the view of the Minister that he\u2019s perhaps a little bit aloof or a little bit acerbic\u2014a little bit like the voters of Otago did in 2005, as the Chair will know. So maybe what he could do is stand up and actually just give the people the benefit of his wisdom and say why I\u2019m wrong, why it\u2019s the case that people who have done a lot of investment in master planning but haven\u2019t yet applied won\u2019t be helped by grandfathering in applications that have already been made, and why it\u2019s not the case that we\u2019re banning low-density areas of master planned developments, which is effectively what the medium density residential standards imposition does, is not going to put out of whack their area structure plans, their infrastructure plans, all of the planning that they\u2019ve done for these master planned developments. If you\u2019d just get up and\u2014you know, if it\u2019s so obvious, get up and just tell us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220cbaba45fa8b4dc880625ff74496db52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cbaba45fa8b4dc880625ff74496db52\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I\u2019m happy to say it again. But I actually addressed the same underlying issue when I responded to his colleague Mr Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7c3e8f68c74ecdbc9e02af6eda519a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: No, you didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba03df04db0a451496c29704d741bb8a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did. What this bill does in respect, for example, of an area that has been through or is going through a master planning process is it enables the development of the land within that development to be, essentially, three storied subject to setbacks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87f00d22b1e4f57ac3b630f71e8eab1\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5b3d34b7b74f4587e2c28f64988014\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you know that, that\u2019s the answer. It doesn\u2019t require them to build it; it just enables them to build it, and it doesn\u2019t stop the master planned development that has been approved. If it\u2019s in a planning process and is yet to be approved, that process can continue, but a variation will probably make it more enabling for that developer rather than more restrictive. It is, of course, up to the developer whether they choose to take advantage of that more enabling planning framework and build more densely. They don\u2019t have to, but they\u2019ll be allowed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002214c30f64e5f7445d8b72f050f4556e4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214c30f64e5f7445d8b72f050f4556e4c\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So, while we\u2019re on the subject of master plans, it\u2019s my understanding that the bill, because it does apply that medium density residential zoning, as an underlying zoning, for any private plan changes\u2014there\u2019s still a degree of voluntary nature in terms of whether the developer chooses to apply that. So, in terms of some of the private planning and upzoning that is occurring around areas like Templeton, Prebbleton, and Rolleston, this bill won\u2019t do anything to prevent urban sprawl. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECan I ask the Minister whether he has considered Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 115, which is all about master planning? Because it picks up submissions from a number of developers and others who highlighted the change that has occurred in residential density, through section sizes getting smaller across the decades. So the quarter-acre \u201Cpavlova paradise\u201D dream of a section generally provides about eight households a hectare. Then, in the post-war periods, we got about 30 houses a hectare. But, in areas like Hobsonville, where there\u2019s been a commitment to doing master planning well, there are 30 to 40 homes per hectare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party SOP in my name is about enabling those developers which have gone to the trouble of having a master plan, so that you have an integrated development that recognises that you want green spaces, that you want a mix of densities but a preference for more dwellings at that higher and medium density, and that infrastructure considerations are also integrated. This SOP provides for a better opportunity for these master plans to proceed as a controlled activity on land that is already zoned residential in a district plan, so it\u2019s not the rural to residential. But it does ensure that we get the master planning developments going ahead with a greater coherence than the bill currently enables, and it makes it easier for those well-designed developments to proceed, which would assist with the bill\u2019s objective of getting more houses\u2014more medium-density houses\u2014faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the bill as it came back from select committee, while it certainly accommodates private plan changes, does not have specific provisions which facilitate these master plan developments going ahead in accordance with the master plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220962d513b7d140afbba7c082fdf10e80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220962d513b7d140afbba7c082fdf10e80\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and can I thank the member Eugenie Sage. She put a lot of work in as chair of the select committee that oversaw the bill. We\u2019re not proposing having a mandatory obligation for a master plan to have a particular density in this bill; so we won\u2019t be backing that Supplementary Order Paper. That\u2019s not within the scope of what we\u2019ve planned through this particular legislation. It is \u201Cenabling\u201D rather than \u201Crequiring\u201D\u2014a point that I have made in an earlier contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00224660780677494c37960f7c4cc283da76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224660780677494c37960f7c4cc283da76\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister in the chair, David Parker, you are absolutely correct: it is enabling legislation\u2014and it\u2019s entirely possible in this world that two things may be correct at the same time. It is enabling, but it also creates, through the enabling process, an imposition on master plan developers. We\u2019re talking about groups that would spend, according to the Adare group, Beachlands South, which, again, as I said, includes the major funder New Zealand Super Fund\u2014New Zealand Super Fund, right? They have sunk, by their estimates\u2014by their estimates, the Adare group, Hamilton\u2014$3 million to $4 million and three to four years in undertaking all of what they called the pre-lodgement work. Before you can even put your application in for a master plan development, you firstly have to have a planner look at the zoning, you have to have a geotechnical engineer, an ecologist, probably someone who knows something about bats look at the land that you propose to develop on. Each one of those technical reports costs between $25,000 and $100,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOnce you\u2019ve done your initial assessment, then you start your planning and your preliminary design. You go to council, you ask them, \u201CThis is our proposal. Can you see any major hooks and crooks in the planning and consenting approach that we\u2019re taking?\u201D And, you know, councils actually, even despite the fact it costs them money and they have to suffer a financial disadvantage for saying yes to people\u2014and that\u2019s a separate matter, infrastructure funding and financing\u2014what they tell developers and applicants is, \u201CActually, there may be a few ways you can steer your development around some of the rules that will make it easy to get over the line. We would love to assist you in that way, because we also don\u2019t want to spend a whole lot of our time going through your application having to litigate the whole thing. So get it right and then it\u2019ll be easier for us to say yes to.\u201D That process takes years and costs millions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat these master plan developers have said to us, what they\u2019ve said to the committee, is, \u201CActually, we\u2019re just about at the point of lodgement. We\u2019ve got all of our stakeholders on board, we\u2019ve got the local \u2018Save the Bats\u2019 group on board, we\u2019ve got iwi on board, we\u2019ve got our local council planning team on board. All we need to do is tick the boxes and make sure, when this set of documents\u201D\u2014which I can guarantee you is far bigger than the set of documents sitting on the Table right now in front of you; if you stacked it all up, it\u2019d be metres high\u2014\u201Cwhen we lodge, we want to make sure that we haven\u2019t wasted millions and millions of dollars in investment in planning and technical reporting.\u201D But what this bill will do is tell them that all of that can go in the bin, because, when you come to council and you apply for your master plan development, all of the reports about \u201CWill the bats be affected?\u201D and \u201CWill the stormwater system be able to cope and will the waste-water pipes be big enough?\u201D\u2014that all goes in the bin because they now have to allow for three houses, three stories, on every single lot in their subdivision. Yes, it\u2019s enabling, this legislation, but it\u2019s also disabling because it\u2019s actually torching years and years of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, one of the members on our select committee, Rachel Brooking, is a Resource Management Act (RMA) lawyer, and I know that in a past life we\u2014me as an engineer and Rachel Brooking as an RMA lawyer\u2014may well have collaborated on projects just like this. So I\u2019m confident that at least that member is well aware of the risks that I\u2019m talking about, that they are real. So we propose a solution. When we get to the schedules, I\u2019ll be proposing an amendment which, actually, if the Minister wants local councils to suffer under the medium density residential standards enabling\u2014or disabling\u2014provision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef04d8eb87b34faba4548e849c30f131\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s getting a little far away from Part 1. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca61e71528e4180bd277e71b98140a5\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you\u2014thank you, Madam Chair. Coming back to Part 1: so there are some fundamental issues with the bill, which submitters pointed out to us. They have not been addressed by the amendments, and I just want to come to that very briefly. The committee only had a very early draft of the bill to consider. We spent many, many hours poring through it line by line and each day we were offered amendments, and right up until 24 hours ago the final bill was not tabled. So it\u2019s been very, very difficult, not just for parties like the ACT Party, that wants to contribute to making better laws and improving public policy, but submitters, those affected, have had zero time to understand the effects of this bill. Minister, I\u2019d like you to explain to them why you think that\u2019s fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226330cd8a5d264482a057b286aa626c8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226330cd8a5d264482a057b286aa626c8e\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d also like to make some comments and ask a couple of questions in relation to Part 1 of this bill. In particular, I\u2019m interested to know from the Minister his thinking, and the thinking of his advisers, in relation to strengthening the qualifying matters that have appeared in the Government Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, at first reading, there were provisions for qualifying matters that would enable councils to exclude from the provisions of this legislation certain areas and properties that they felt, for a variety of reasons, were not going to be appropriate under this legislation. I for one, and I know that my colleagues on this side of the House in the National Party\u2014we were actually quite pleased to see that there had been some movement from the Minister in this regard, and I\u2019m keen to just understand a little about the rationale and the logic behind that and what the motivations were for extending some of the qualifying matters that, essentially, give councils more power, where they think justified, to exclude from the provisions of this legislation certain properties, or even areas within an urban environment that they feel\u2014for instance, in terms of heritage protection\u2014may not be appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec36770dd3044451982cf026fd714352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec36770dd3044451982cf026fd714352\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that question, the Hon Scott Simpson. This is dealt with in clause 77G, on page 11 of the tracked changes version of the bill, with some related provisions in the clauses that follow. The member is correct that there has been some change recommended by the select committee that we\u2019ve adopted. There is some express reference to other qualifying matters that weren\u2019t in the original version of the bill, including, for example, the vision and strategy for the Waikato River / Te Ture Whaimana o Te Awa o Waikato, and also matters giving effect to the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park Act or the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPerhaps more significant are some of the changes that were made to make these provisions more practical for councils to apply, which enable councils to reply on earlier work that they have done rather than having to do a separate assessment in respect of each case that comes before them. That\u2019s probably the more important change that was made at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI should also say it\u2019s not the intention to allow overlays on a whole suburb that aren\u2019t related to a matter of real import. So, for example, if something is in a flood plain and there is a worry that a river in flood could mean that an area could be flooded, that could apply to a whole area, but if someone wanted to protect historic heritage, it would have to be done on either a building or a group of buildings basis rather than on a whole suburb basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd6cad28c5294e21889593aed08c4c25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd6cad28c5294e21889593aed08c4c25\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. That\u2019s a very interesting phrase that the Minister just used. He said it\u2019s not the intention for the qualifying matters to extinguish medium-density residential zone or the standard of\u2014it\u2019s confusing because, when the regulatory impact statement was done, it was the medium-density residential zone. Then five months later, when all this came to light, it had morphed into a standard. And I\u2019ve heard even the Minister and some of the other proponents of the bill from the National Party get that confusion, but there you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe qualifying matters that extinguish it from some areas have certainly been widened as the bill was introduced. You know, the qualifying matters really were on a per property basis, and it would have been totally impractical for councils to go through and identify, in the case of heritage, what exactly was important. But I guess the Minister said it\u2019s not the intention that whole suburbs would apply. I guess one of the questions that might become pertinent quite soon is\u2014I think about an area in, say, Mount Albert. It\u2019s a nice suburb in Auckland, well represented, I hear. And, on the hill there, there\u2019s some quite heritage-type homes, very nice homes. I suspect those people might go to their local MP and ask, \u201CWhy can\u2019t our area be a heritage zone or have a heritage overlay that would extinguish the medium density residential standards (MDRS)?\u201D So can the Minister just talk through what would be the process for deciding whether or not a heritage overlay was a qualifying matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn particular, what would he envisage being the role of the Minister in deciding whether indeed a heritage matter was a qualifying matter in a particular region? Let\u2019s just use the side of Mount Albert. I don\u2019t know if the Minister knows Auckland very well, but the north side, facing the sun, overlooking Mount Albert town from the actual mountain there\u2014and I\u2019ll just give the Minister a bit more time; he\u2019s clearly seeking some advice. But, you know, that\u2019s the question: what actually happens when a group of residents in a street on the northern slopes of Mount Albert insist that actually there should be a heritage overlay in their area and that should be a qualifying matter? And, come to that, what happens when some more people, just down the hill in Mount Albert, say, \u201CWell, you know, the view shaft, our ability to see Mount Albert, is one of the things that makes Auckland special.\u201D You see, lots of cities have rivers and lots of cities have harbours, but very few cities have 50 volcanic cones spread throughout them. A lot of Aucklanders view that as being something very distinctive and hence the view shaft\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fac0594a03304d70a63474fe9803b365\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Some of us just view them as a quarry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d9cbd58a204894bd469b09cc9e4f34\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and Simon Court\u2019s said\u2014he\u2019s a civil engineer to his teeth\u2014\u201CSome of us just view those volcanic cones as a quarry.\u201D I, of course, don\u2019t have a view on that, but if I did, it wouldn\u2019t include certain cones. But what I would say is that these are important questions. The Minister\u2019s just said it\u2019s not the intention that a whole suburb be a heritage zone. So can the Minister talk us through: a group of people on the slopes of Mount Albert go to their local MP and they ask, \u201CWhat\u2019s the process? Why can\u2019t we get an overlay as a heritage zone that is a qualifying matter so the MDRS doesn\u2019t apply on the northern slopes of Mount Albert?\u201D Where does it get to, and what\u2019s the role of the Minister in deciding whether or not there is a qualifying matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223e2a19d43ab2497abe73f6a5750a8b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e2a19d43ab2497abe73f6a5750a8b79\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister has no role. That\u2019s a matter that\u2019s delegated in the legislation to local government. In respect of the list of qualifying matters that\u2019s set out at new section 77G, members will see that paragraph (h) to that clause says \u201Cthat any other matter that makes higher density as provided for by the MDRS [or policy 3] inappropriate in an area, but only if section 77I is [triggered].\u201D Section 77I then says that in respect of those further requirements, it also brings some related provisions in the existing National Policy Statement on Urban Development, and in effect, what that does is say that, for other matters like heritage, a site-by-site analysis is required by the council, whereas, for the other listed matters, they can rely on more general overlays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00227b0e93853d8c40a3ad06a4286a5e22fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b0e93853d8c40a3ad06a4286a5e22fa\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So the Minister has just stated that he doesn\u2019t have decision making of the qualifying matters, that that is a matter for local councils. And, yet, once a plan is proposed through the intensification planning process and it\u2019s proposed by a hearings panel, if a council which represents its community finds that some of the provisions in this plan are unacceptable for whatever reason\u2014whether they be heritage or because it interferes with other values that are recognised in the Resource Management Act\u2014if they refuse to accept all of these measures, then that plan will be referred to the Minister to make a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s where it\u2019s going to end up. It\u2019s going to end up on the Minister\u2019s desk. And, as the Minister pointed out in the House the other night, he may not always be the Minister. It\u2019s been said elsewhere that the Minister for the Environment ends up being the \u201CMinister of Everything\u201D, and so any changes to resource management law must recognise that, actually, communities\u2019 needs, wants, values do need to be taken into account. And if there is a community like Mount Albert or on the slopes of Mount Hobson, where I grew up, it decides that they want their community and their homes and their streets to look a certain way because there are values around volcanic cones\u2014not all of them should be quarried; I just want to clear that up. Some of them actually have fantastic purposes, such as water care, water reservoirs, but you wouldn\u2019t know that by looking at them, because those pieces of infrastructure have been so well integrated into the cones over the years, which means that the cones still have value, as\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229942cce86c2e48e8abe1bb2dfc0f8d76\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Hasn\u2019t been to Three Kings!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b867e2e409944c2a7df3a6cc35dca42\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Three Kings, Mount Hobson. Again, a concrete water tank, as the Hon Michael Wood points out, on top of Three Kings, does have an iconic cultural value to many, and it\u2019s important that communities get to choose which of the values they wish to see incorporated in planning law that affects them. So any planning, any plan, which is proposed under this bill, which ends up on the Minister\u2019s desk, means that the Minister will have decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223881ed55f9bd498cb96bc9dd4769157a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and why did he say he doesn\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f87200d12a354ba080b0daf14277cd6b\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: So the question is\u2014thank you, Mr Seymour. The question is: why did the Minister say that he doesn\u2019t have decision making over qualifying matters when, ultimately, he will? And he no doubt was looking forward to this as the \u201CMinister of Everything\u201D, currently Minister for the Environment. Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002213c677d150ed415cb928d5bf75958529\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213c677d150ed415cb928d5bf75958529\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The discretion that the Minister for the Environment has is limited to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228388c3e30c1a43e4a4ead8584f8168ea\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: No role\u2014you said \u201Cno role\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377b35e47fbb4c9ab0ba8400d4a071b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no role in the way in which the member previously put to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223875626fd9e14f9f8b06db6173a33fd0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So this is \u201Cno role\u201D but he has a role\u2014righto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e8c7cb738704b1cbdaad63bcc458dc2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Take another call if you want to put your question more specifically, because I answered it accurately in the first place. In respect of the point that Mr Court has made\u2014[Interruption]\u2014the processes that the council proposes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229af1a51b1fa43949be4994a2fae1e10\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! Apologies to the Minister. Interjections should be rare and reasonable; an ongoing barrage of comments and questions is not acceptable, and members have the opportunity in this committee stage to stand and ask for a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744428928d3c425887a2642bb2db3699\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s obvious that I\u2019ve got under the skin of the leader of the ACT Party for answering questions. In respect of the point that Mr Court made, the process is that the council proposes a plan that they believe to be in compliance with these laws. An independent hearings panel then considers it. The independent hearings panel will go back to the council, and I would expect, nine out of 10 times, all of it will be approved. Sometimes there will be aspects of it that the council disagrees with. In respect of all of the parts that the council agrees with, they automatically come into effect. And, in respect of the part that is disagreed with, someone has to take a decision on that because there is a disagreement then between the independent hearings panel and the council, and, at that point, that point of disagreement is put to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the point made about volcanic view shafts, that is a matter that can be taken into account by councils. It effectively flows through the matters of national importance, which are carried through by new section 77G in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6da24a545f7493fab51942d574d6753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6da24a545f7493fab51942d574d6753\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The select committee spent some time clarifying the application of the intensification planning instrument, which had been through the intensification streamlined planning process, which the Minister has just described, with the independent hearings panel making recommendations to the council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECan I ask the Minister a couple of things. There was concern amongst some submitters that there is a potential for bottlenecks if the Minister is making a decision\u2014Waip\u0101 District Council, for example, had said that their plan change through the existing streamlined planning process had been somewhat delayed. So what are the processes in place, if a number of councils are doing these intensification streamlined instruments at the same time and if there are differences between the council\u2019s decision on the recommendations of the hearing panel, so they go to the Minister, to ensure that there aren\u2019t bottlenecks there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnd has the Minister, in terms of the concern that the Green Party has about the centralisation of power in the Minister\u2019s domain\u2014we didn\u2019t really get a clear explanation through the select committee process about why we haven\u2019t followed, in this bill, the model with the Auckland Unitary Plan, where, if there are differences between what the independent hearings panel recommends and the council\u2019s decisions, if the council doesn\u2019t accept all the recommendations, there is an ability to appeal to the court, because it\u2019s our concern that there is a restriction of access to justice because the ability to appeal to the Environment Court does not exist under this streamlined intensification planning instrument process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022665f9fae496043d19628d487b40ea356\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665f9fae496043d19628d487b40ea356\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E In respect of the first of those issues, there is a resource constraint within any ministry if they have too much to do and we expect them to do what they\u2019re already doing and pick up an extra job. It\u2019s actually one of the reasons why the Government members on the committee didn\u2019t agree with the suggestion that private plan changes should be able to go through this process, because that would have increased the volume of plan changes that came through in that regard; therefore, this process is limited to council plan changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f53835b2ab47249109433c23718fc2\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What? You just said we don\u2019t want to build more homes because you\u2019d have to process more applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e615b9d30adb4cc8bb6e772703b3f99f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CW-h-a-t\u201D is what we heard from the ACT leader. If he can\u2019t understand simple answers, take another call. That\u2019s the reason: that private plan changes\u2014it could overwhelm the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the question as to whether it should go to the Environment Court or the Minister, that\u2019s a proper question to ask. The reason why the Government landed on it going to the Minister was that the discretion of the Minister is, essentially, limited by the two ends of the dispute, if you like: what the independent hearings panel thought and what the council thinks. They\u2019ll have both put their viewpoints to it, the issues will have considerably narrowed, and we thought it was appropriate that we just get on with it and implement these upzoning provisions, because they\u2019re so important. And, if we were to put that to the Environment Court, we can see that that could add another year, perhaps more, to the process, and we thought that that was inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAt its heart, this bill is actually quite simple: it enables three-storey developments at the centre of our largest centres, and we need that, and we need that not just in the suburbs where you can currently do that in Auckland, which are virtually all of West Auckland and South Auckland, but we need it in the isthmus, because that\u2019s where so much of the housing and housebuilding opportunities are, and that\u2019s, of course, why the ACT Party opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a448fc55b5df4829bee6730389a8c1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a448fc55b5df4829bee6730389a8c1ad\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Madam Chair, so can we just get clear what the Minister for the Environment has just told the committee and New Zealand. He said that private plan changes should be fast tracked if they\u2019re initiated by councils\u2014that\u2019s good\u2014but they can\u2019t be initiated by private developers. For example, some people may have seen in the New Zealand Herald last weekend that the first two pages in the paper were taken out by a developer with a development called Sunfield; 5,000 developments that haven\u2019t been able to be fast tracked by the Government because\u2014sorry, I just have to pause and get this straight. So the Minister said that they can\u2019t allow private developers to access the fast-track planning process, because they\u2019d be too busy and they\u2019d be overwhelmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, if that\u2019s seriously what the Minister\u2019s says, let\u2019s just get this clear. We\u2019re here to try to make a law to make it easier to build more homes. But the Minister says that we can\u2019t let just anyone apply to build more homes, because he might get overwhelmed trying to process them. I mean, if that\u2019s seriously what he\u2019s saying, then I think we\u2019re starting to see the wheels fall off and the serious problems with a Government trying to plan the development of property and communities up and down New Zealand. That\u2019s the basic problem. And, of course, there is an amendment on the Table, and it should be adopted, that will allow private developers to take advantage of private plan changes, because, hey, they can build homes too. That is absolutely critical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s quite a lot more to say, but I just want the Minister to be clear that he\u2019s not going to support private plan changes being able to access the fast-track consenting process because he thinks that there\u2019ll be too many applications to be processed. Is that actually what he said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00224270642579b74e61a1f8e44d24c80261\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224270642579b74e61a1f8e44d24c80261\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The member described me as saying that private plan changes can be initiated by the council. I didn\u2019t say that. Council plan changes are initiated by councils, not private plan changes. Of course, private developers get the benefit of the planning changes that are caused in all of these cities by the plan changes that are required to be brought forward by the council, because they can now build three storeys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022253abaf7317f40cab740ee18c9b83698\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022253abaf7317f40cab740ee18c9b83698\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think I\u2019d just ask if the Minister could further clarify that, because I think the ACT Party is creating some confusion here. The Environment Committee spent quite a lot of time dealing with the provision in the bill as introduced that private plan changes that hadn\u2019t had the hearing completed by 20 February 2022 would have to be removed. One of the major recommendations was that they could go through the intensification streamlined planning process if the council decided to adopt or accept them, and that they could also go through as a variation when they were re-looked at by the applicants. So could the Minister just clarify that there is scope for private plan changes to continue but that they are required to be accepted or adopted by the council or go through as a variation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd7117ef802949088f7aba01b61cf42d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd7117ef802949088f7aba01b61cf42d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and, in fact, I had addressed that earlier issue. That is correct, and that\u2019s preserved through the transitional provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2b0a40004ab4dbebc221a20970a8965\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2b0a40004ab4dbebc221a20970a8965\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Associate Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002232ed4c95d8bd4f94b03e1e5e586a1fa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232ed4c95d8bd4f94b03e1e5e586a1fa3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT): \u003C/span\u003EThat has got to be the most premature closure motion I\u2019ve heard in all the times I\u2019ve been in this committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66783af69bd47899338360bc543666d\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b677307389d40ea9978856b007751a3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in this House. The member now says that there\u2019s repetition. I don\u2019t think she\u2019s quite grasping that this is a problem. I don\u2019t think that her party grasp the subtlety of the matters that are being dealt with. The question I want to move to is, actually, the nature of the medium density residential standards (MDRS) itself. Now, this medium density residential standard, as introduced\u2014for people who may be tuning into this at home, what it says is any residential section of any size can be up to 50 percent covered by three homes, up to three stories tall, 11 metres plus half the roof, and they can be a metre from your boundary, with a six metre then 60 degree height to boundary ratio, and no urban design standards outside of that basic description apply. Now, there\u2019s a couple of other things: you\u2019ve got to have a metre outlook outside a couple of your windows and three metres by three metres outside your primary window, but, basically, that\u2019s it. If you comply with those rules, then no question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI guess that it needs to be acknowledged that the Government has indicated that it would like to restrict that. So the biggest change they\u2019ve contemplated would be to drag down the height. So it\u2019s instead of six metres up, four metres up and then in at 60 degrees. It\u2019s worth noting that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce2e3b92b5464131a3345af61a0ac05c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce2e3b92b5464131a3345af61a0ac05c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e1f636de2804cb1aa96249e2f2dbf9c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002286db90c447334c77b2d04b78fb6b5a43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286db90c447334c77b2d04b78fb6b5a43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I invite the member to return to Part 1 of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af4d10e3017447a9d0dc93666aba247\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Madam Chair, Part 1 introduces the MDRS. Now, the details of it may well be in the schedule\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87b1f813df24bc3abdc2d94d9e1aa9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87b1f813df24bc3abdc2d94d9e1aa9f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: And so I\u2019m advising the member to return specifically to Part\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2fb824d92247bf86140a193a612903\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sure. No, no, no\u2014I apologise, Madam Chair. I certainly am; I just wanted to give some context about what we\u2019re talking about because it\u2019s hard to talk about Part 1 without knowing about the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd4045b838f4cd2b310d6115ae21f56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd4045b838f4cd2b310d6115ae21f56\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for that, and the member\u2019s time will be\u2014[Members seeking call]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226935ce6da3114f2fa675a5af9ccfb1a4\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s on her feet, guys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddac15aa54b64b54b82813512388ca86\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have the opportunity to further develop his argument and his questions when we are dealing with Part 2, but now we\u2019re dealing with Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c54725c32e44ce80d74bee0919d85c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, thank you. I take your point, Madam Chair, but the questions I\u2019m asking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224356c733e396467895b5f73c0a0fb8a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224356c733e396467895b5f73c0a0fb8a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat, and I invite the member not to argue with my ruling, but I invite him to continue to with his questioning around Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249596e7f991d483aaedde3ef0afa8fb9\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to be clear: I\u2019m certainly not arguing with your ruling. All I\u2019m trying to do is show how, actually, what I was saying\u2014I\u2019m just giving a bit of context\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f25b820b3d414cac88797deb22864c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f25b820b3d414cac88797deb22864c74\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is now arguing with my ruling, and I am now warning him that he needs, right now, to return specifically to Part 1 of the bill. Thank you, David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec4f1e3b76e47c18e8a116d6ee03865\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Part 1 would introduce the medium density residential standard, the details of which I\u2019ve just outlined. What I want to ask the Minister is around some of the assumptions behind what that will do, because I\u2019ve looked at the regulatory impact statement and, without having it immediately in front of me, the gist of it is that they say that they haven\u2019t done any bespoke analysis of what the introduction of this planning instrument and specifically the MDRS within it will achieve. What they\u2019ve said is they\u2019ve relied on, basically, literature reviews that say a couple of things: one is that, in some cases, residential land use regulations are a constraint on housing supply. Well, that is most certainly true. I don\u2019t think anyone in this Parliament has argued that for longer, stronger, or more consistently than I have. That is point number one. Number two is that it\u2019s not always true in all circumstances. Because the second thing that\u2019s very important to understand in any kind of economic analysis is something that Alfred Nobel came up with 150 years ago; it\u2019s called the marginal revolution\u2014the idea that economists think at the margin. So just because something was true in some circumstances at one point doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s true right now. That\u2019s why they should have done bespoke analysis in the regulatory impact statement (RIS) to give the specifics of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EYou take the reasoning that was used to justify the introduction of these planning intensification instruments in Part 1\u2014well, you take the analysis that was done by, I think it was, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), the accounting firm\u2014and the basic logic of it is: well, when the Auckland Unitary Plan was introduced, the introduction of the mixed housing suburban zone and the mixed housing urban zone led to some development in those areas that was greater in terms of the floor area ratio; that is the amount of additional floor area. That was larger than it was in the areas that were left in single house zone. So the logic behind this bill\u2014they don\u2019t really compare any other issues in the RIS. The RIS starts from the assumption that it is zoning that is the constraint on home development, so they don\u2019t compare any other issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThey do this analysis from PwC and, I think it was, Sense Partners, the consultancy. They say, \u201CWell, because upzoning in the case of the Auckland Unitary Plan five years ago led to additional floor area per metre of land being added, if we do even more up zoning, then in a linear fashion we will get even more floor area ratio.\u201D That is such an error of logic. You can see the absurdity of it. It might be said, \u201CWell, actually, what we need to do is, why stop at the cities? Why not make all of New Zealand subject to the medium density residential standard?\u201D If we just keep extrapolating this, why get 100,000 houses? There could be millions, tens of millions, of houses. New Zealand could potentially become home to billions of people if only we applied the medium density residential standard to the whole country. But, of course, that would be absurd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt would be completely absurd, because what people might say is that there would be additional constraints on developing new homes. People might point out\u2014they\u2019d say, \u201CWell, we might not have roads to get to those places, so people probably won\u2019t build houses there.\u201D They\u2019ll say, \u201COh, well, there probably won\u2019t be libraries near there, so people won\u2019t want to live there.\u201D They\u2019ll say, \u201COh, we\u2019ll have to have schools there.\u201D Then we\u2019ll say, \u201COh, OK, what about three waters?\u201D That\u2019s a big issue. The Government knows that, because it\u2019s been deeply contesting it. So we have a real issue here where we\u2019re getting major difficulties with the supply of infrastructure, the supply of community amenities, and we don\u2019t think that we\u2019re going to be able to use all of that medium density residential standard zoned land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen people might say, \u201CWhat about other aspects of the supply chain?\u201D Well, you still need to get building consent. You still need to get resource consents for earthworks. There are still other constraints, and then you\u2019ve got to find builders. Then you\u2019ve got to find materials. People might say, \u201CWell, I don\u2019t know if the zoning was actually the binding constraint.\u201D Now, if you can accept all of that at the, admittedly, extreme version of the thought experiment where you zoned it in New Zealand, well, maybe, actually, we\u2019re already at the limit of what we can achieve by simply upzoning more land, particularly in Auckland. The Minister should know this, because he said, \u201COh, we need more three storey homes near the centre of the city.\u201D That\u2019s what the Auckland Unitary Plan does. It was a civil war in Auckland for three years. It allowed 430,000 additional homes to be built that are economically viable. They\u2019re a million in theory, but then they allowed for those other constraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe problem is that there is no analysis. They haven\u2019t done any analysis, thinking at the margin as good economists do, which is: is the restriction of zoned land the true constraint on building more homes right now? They\u2019ve done the analysis of: was it the constraints of when the Auckland Unitary Plan was introduced in 2016? They\u2019ve done the analysis of: can we show that generally in the past, in some instances, that\u2019s been true? They\u2019ve shown that, but they\u2019ve never asked the simple question: what is the binding constraint on development right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen people say, \u201COh, but you know, I would have thought that it would just be good to remove restrictions in any event.\u201D Well, that\u2019s an interesting argument. See, those of us who actually want a freer society know that deregulation has to be done in a way that actually delivers results\u2014that, actually, homes have to get built and can\u2019t be held back by those other constraints, and secondly, it has to be done in a way that doesn\u2019t needlessly antagonise people who might otherwise support policies of a freer society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this policy is going to fail. My question to the Minister is very simple: what analysis do you have that zoning is the binding constraint and not infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002228817601ff9d4ff7a1a2e326e04b094e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228817601ff9d4ff7a1a2e326e04b094e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E One of the great things about the committee stage of Parliament is it really does expose the weakness of either the Government\u2019s position or the Opposition\u2019s position. And we heard at the start of that debate self-praise from the ACT Party claiming to be the most consistently in favour of removing planning constraints of housing development of anyone in this Parliament. He risks renaming himself the Dorian Gray of Parliament, because he should look in the mirror. It is so obvious that his actions here are the absolute opposite of, as he says, everything that he stands for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDealing with the assertion that there is no analysis as to whether this will work or not: there is a 150-page cost-benefit analysis, which I think is one of the best pieces of cost-benefit analysis that I have seen attached to any piece of legislation in this area of law. It is an outstanding piece of analysis that is grounded in economics\u2014the economics of land markets, the economics of infrastructure. And it says in that report that there is less uncertainty in respect of the analysis in that report than there is normally because they have the good data from the mixed use zone in Auckland already. It\u2019s prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers and Sense Partners, as the member correctly said\u2014two leading analysts in this area. And the economists who have done this work within those organisations are some of the best economists in land markets and planning economics in the country, and they have put their name to the independently prepared cost-benefit analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat cost-benefit analysis is absolutely clear. It shows that upzoning in areas, which enables people to build denser\u2014doesn\u2019t require it; it enables them\u2014when people are given the choice to build more densely, the choice to have a more affordable home because it uses land more efficiently, uses infrastructure more efficiently, the choice to live closer to their work, closer to the shops that they use, when people are given those choices, they take them. Developers build to the choices of the people, because they know that if they build to that type of house they will find a buyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I hear complaints about quality from members of the ACT Party. They haven\u2019t quite said what some of the planning profession have said, that people will want to buy slums or live in slums\u2014they haven\u2019t quite said that, but that\u2019s sort of the tone of what they say. Again, this is just an abrogation of their viewpoint that people should have the choice of being able to develop their land more intensively and the choice of buying a home that is affordable to them. Because, instead of the land content being half a million dollars per house or something, maybe the land content will be lower and they\u2019ll spend more on a high-quality house because they\u2019ll be able to afford a higher quality house because they won\u2019t have paid these astronomical amounts for the land content.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of what the cost-benefit analysis said, it showed that the earlier cost-benefit analysis of what would be the effect of the national policy statement on urban development and the effect of the mixed-use zone, those early analyses by other cost-benefit analysts, they undercooked it. The actual outcomes compared with the outcomes in those earlier examples of cost-benefit analysis understated how powerful this will be and how much this is important to affordable housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the numbers that they produced, they said that this piece of legislation will over the next, I think it is, five to eight years\u2014is it?\u2014result in between 48,000 and 105,500 extra houses being built in New Zealand for people to live in, and yet the ACT Party opposes it. In respect of how much of that is in Auckland, according to their analysis: between 27,900 and 53,700 units. Now, if the Supplementary Order Paper is adopted, that extra housing will go down by about 4 percent, because we have changed some of the boundary rules that will come up in a later part of the speech. But those are the numbers\u2014those are the numbers. They are real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00225802a7f457854fc68a0afb8cd8eb6b32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225802a7f457854fc68a0afb8cd8eb6b32\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So, with the bill enabling infill development across our major cities in the residential zones, one of the major concerns of submitters was the impact that that would have on trees and the loss of urban trees. One of the issues with a cost-benefit analysis is that the economists often find it difficult to put a benefit and a cost and evaluate those in relation to some of the intangibles: urban amenity that\u2019s provided by trees, the shade effect, the reduction of the heat island effect, the reduction in stormwater flows that urban trees assist with, just what they contribute to our cities in terms of biodiversity and as habitat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ENow, the bill, in Part 1, introduces an ability for local authorities to make rules about financial contributions. The supplementary order paper (SOP) in my name, SOP 112, suggests that we make a change to the Resource Management Act (RMA) to enable district rules to provide for urban tree protection through the intensification planning instrument made through the intensification streamlined planning process. Because, as the Minister will know, it was the National Party who removed the ability of councils to have general rules which controlled the felling of trees in our cities and required instead a very detailed exercise of councils doing a site-by-site analysis, effectively, and scheduling individual trees with all the details of their street address and a legal description if there was to be a provision applying which required a resource consent for the felling of the tree. So the medium density residential standards, with their reduced front yards and side yards, is likely to see a continuation of what has been happening in Auckland, in Christchurch, in Wellington with the loss of significant trees. So could the Minister respond to SOP 112 and the ability that it suggests would require councils to use the intensification planning instrument to look at how you could better protect urban trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere were submissions also from planners who highlighted the ability of councils to use digital tools much more. We see that as including satellite imagery to actually identify trees that merit protection. The SOP requires that any new objectives and rules that were included in plans would have to be consistent with the National Policy Statement on Urban Development 2020, in particular objective eight, which is around greenhouse gas emissions and climate change, and just the accessibility of communities to natural spaces. So this SOP is seeking to integrate urban tree protection with the bill\u2019s framework around accelerating the supply of housing but ensuring that, at the same time as we are accelerating housing provision, we are also ensuring that our urban trees are protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002254b9ca0b36324c32ae7e089b5c11b8d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254b9ca0b36324c32ae7e089b5c11b8d6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Can I acknowledge the heartfelt way in which the member advocates for the protection of trees in the Auckland area. Can I also agree that the current provisions in the RMA are not entirely logical. The amendment that was made by the last National Government to take away from councils the discretion or the breadth of discretion as to how they protect trees in some ways is inconsistent with the overall scheme of the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat said, I also have sympathy for the dilemma that the National Party then had, because Auckland were rather inefficient in the way that they tried to protect trees. Instead of conducting analysis of which trees should be preserved, they had very general rules that applied to the cutting down of trees and also the pruning of trees. The effect of that was that a substantial proportion of total resource consent applications in Auckland, actually, in the end, were in respect of people getting a consent to cut down or to prune a tree, and it was excessive. I think it was so excessive that it was largely ignored in respect of the pruning rules. It also brought the overall RMA into disrepute, because people thought the RMA was silly if it had an effect in that way, and therefore the National Party responded in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, we do have the opportunity in the revamp of the RMA through the Natural and Built Environments Bill to actually have another look at that and see if there is a middle way through there that can actually achieve a better outcome. But we propose that to be the vehicle, not this, and we don\u2019t think that this should be the vehicle for that wider piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of recommendations that the Environment Committee has none the less made that improve the ability to protect trees, there are some good recommendations that came from the select committee. I\u2019ll mention two of them: maximising rear yards by allowing the building to come closer to the street\u2014that will protect more trees in backyards that are larger trees than would otherwise have been able to be protected\u2014and the other is the enabling of a group of houses in a development to group their open spaces and use it collectively. I think that that will both enable the protection of trees, but it\u2019ll also encourage the growing of larger trees, because the agglomeration of those outdoor areas in respect of a development obviously makes for a bigger space that is more suited to more larger trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7ea85edb54c4fc6bb32c7a355575304\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7ea85edb54c4fc6bb32c7a355575304\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Chair. I certainly agree one of the things that constituency MPs in urban areas know is that trees play a much larger role in day-to-day politics than most people ever imagined before they were elected. It is very important to get the balance between people who want to be able to go about their business and clear trees that are a nuisance to them and people who view trees as, quite rightly, a very valuable part of their community\u2019s character in balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut I want to return to the Minister David Parker\u2019s earlier comments, because he received an invitation to debate policy and then he resorted to a personal attack, calling me some sort of name that I\u2019ve never heard, which probably reflects his generation getting on a bit. Then he said that\u2014he didn\u2019t actually give any examples of why he thought he was right; he just said that there was very good analysis done. Well, that, you know, in debating terms is called the appeal to authority fallacy. But I\u2019ll put the invitation to him again. The analysis that he\u2019s got says linear extrapolation: when we had this much upzoning five years ago in Auckland, we got this many more houses, so if we keep upzoning, we\u2019ll get more houses in proportion. That\u2019s what the analysis says, and I want to ask the Minister why he thinks that\u2019s true. Is he not aware that just about anyone you talk to who\u2019s actually in the business will tell you that there are other constraints, that the amount of zoned land is no longer the problem, at least in Auckland and at least in Hamilton, who submitted the same thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat they\u2019re saying very clearly in the select committee and to people who take the time to go round and talk to developers and councillors and listen to people who are urban planning experts in the business\u2014what they consistently say to us is, actually, there are now other constraints. If they\u2019re right, then the Minister is wrong in his contention that he\u2019s got very good analysis. Or perhaps the analysis is very good but it\u2019s just very limited, because all it\u2019s done is analyse what the effects of upzoning have been in a past time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen the Minister said, \u201COh, there\u2019s very good cost-benefit analysis.\u201D I mean, let\u2019s be clear: 150 pages; three pages were on infrastructure, and it was an extrapolation of a 2016 paper from MRCagney that was probably written by my old mate Stu Donovan when he was there, which said, in general, people being closer together is cheaper infrastructure-wise, ceteris paribus\u2014everything else being equal. But what they didn\u2019t go into was some of the things that have come up from the select committee, and let me just give you one example. You know, the reason why some areas are zoned for great intensification under the Auckland Unitary Plan and others aren\u2019t is because those specific locations, not generally extrapolating a five-year-old study\u2014and Michael Wood, he\u2019s kind of knowingly looking up, because he\u2019s a committed local MP, too; he didn\u2019t lose a seat to Jacqui Dean in 2005, and he\u2019s saying, actually, he understands that these localised nuances\u2014yeah, he knows\u2014are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EActually, there are areas where the independent hearings panel, when the Auckland Unitary Plan went through, said, \u201CLook, you know, we understand why you\u2019re advocating for lower density there, because it will be less efficient to have to serve that area and this area. So let\u2019s have high intensity here and low intensity there.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a66ecf7f6807438ea21c737ed4c4f5b0\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, desperate stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0fe3e3fbe48435a986939c12bc9e0ce\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what the independent hearings panel found time and again. You know, that\u2019s what people who actually work in councils, are actually involved in urban planning, actually do infrastructure, say. Michael Wood says it\u2019s desperate stuff. Well, here\u2019s the question: let me ask Michael Wood\u2014here\u2019s the opportunity\u2014does Michael Wood not think that the independent hearings panel got it right? He\u2019s walking out\u2014he\u2019s walking out. That\u2019s unfortunately the kind of courage that the Labour members have for the fight here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I give the Minister another opportunity. He should stand up and ask the question\u2014stand up and ask the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229af798fd928454a9a93c19fe5cef84e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. The member\u2019s comments about the Minister just then were out of order for two reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c29e36a5b3343d5bfb1f3a4087b2876\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the Minister has a point, but what he might also like to consider is that it\u2019s contrary to the Standing Orders to heckle while walking around the Chamber. So why don\u2019t we just call it a draw?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684b99d4a2f744af8ce5a170d27d4cfb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order, David Seymour, the Minister was actually on his way out of the Chamber, and I agree that it is actually not a good idea to be calling on and saying that someone is out of courage. The Minister\u2019s probably got other meetings to get to. As you see, this is the time that members come in and out in terms of changing who is actually on duty in the Chamber. Can I ask the member to, in his 27 seconds, finish the speech that he was making on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5044da12654f0893bf686c4bf9b116\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, certainly, Madam Chair. So, really, the opportunity is there for the Minister to explain, not including the three pages of generic material that were tacked on to the 150 pages he talks about on infrastructure\u2014to actually explain what analysis he has that zoning constraints are the binding constraints on building new homes in cities like Auckland and Hamilton, because he hasn\u2019t answered that question yet, and it\u2019s critical to the whole premise of Part 1, that introduces these planning intensification instruments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022008b5e3a692c49858083555cce4c195b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022008b5e3a692c49858083555cce4c195b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m sure the member won\u2019t mind me saying that he obviously hasn\u2019t read any Oscar Wilde in his life, so perhaps the better saying is he doth protesteth too much. The infrastructure bogeyman that the member raises is well addressed in the cost-benefit analysis and, I thought, was also addressed by the Infrastructure Commission. It\u2019s so simply addressed. It doesn\u2019t need a 20-page dissertation to know that more dense forms of living are generally cheaper to service, and that\u2019s what the cost-benefit analysis says. It said, yes, local water or sewage infrastructure might be slightly more expensive sometimes\u2014not always, but sometimes\u2014than a new development at the margin of a city; that\u2019s true, but roading expense is less, public transport expense is less, and overall infrastructure costs are lower. The Infrastructure Commission essentially said the same thing and then made the point: to the extent that there are infrastructure costs born of having to house more people, the infrastructure cost arises from having more people, not from the planning code.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227a217025f1e74972b0f409d86066a791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a217025f1e74972b0f409d86066a791\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002200132cfe95054aa3b708069b341be45c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question now be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 98\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00227afd332a97d04085a8d69b6b8189c354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227afd332a97d04085a8d69b6b8189c354\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 106 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226141b11b6c704857beece51f4dd28f67\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002250c99a3c5c5f499b8e71c97403b61c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250c99a3c5c5f499b8e71c97403b61c6d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simon Court\u2019s amendments to clause 4 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 107 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228c476104dcf6483e991e284c856c6279\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002279f3910611444e90b2bf59e12c377c20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279f3910611444e90b2bf59e12c377c20\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendment to clause 4 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 108 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e440bc3aa4394b449e5133398647a0f5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00225d205fb31e3844cda63336ff99fc28cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d205fb31e3844cda63336ff99fc28cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments to clause 7 replacing new section 77O(1) set out on Supplementary Order Paper 110 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s remaining amendments to clauses 4 and 7 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 110 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ae29b73523fd4ee38e334bd4867db5f5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022eacabffbce5a443a8bd1a002fb766c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eacabffbce5a443a8bd1a002fb766c8d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 112 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226544d17848704a959c611330c3b5116c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7d335e735ce41619c76bdbb6a0767c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7d335e735ce41619c76bdbb6a0767c7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendment to clause 8 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 115 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s remaining amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 115 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022859bddef085f4ccbb3c9596d16cfd6e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022be91c25c90ee4fdcb788356d57935a37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e385aa68bc14d41914c01eef1d916f9\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to schedules and new schedules\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000223\u0022\u003E, and Schedules 1 to 3\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00225ab4a3a603dc4cc49317dd065cf990a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ab4a3a603dc4cc49317dd065cf990a5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 13 to 16 and Schedules 1 to 3, amendments to schedules and new schedules. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00220a0320d4d01b4afdaa32b0eeae1e0117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a0320d4d01b4afdaa32b0eeae1e0117\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. We\u2019ve previously covered off the intention of the intensified, streamlined planning process earlier this morning, and what\u2019s clear is that local government has struggled in some of the tier 1 cities to identify land where intensification is suitable, negotiate that with communities through existing planning provisions under the Resource Management Act (RMA), and then deliver back to those communities a plan which sets out where it is suitable to build to intensify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESome councils\u2014like Auckland and like Hamilton, for example\u2014have been through extensive processes where they\u2019ve taken many factors into account, and the Auckland Unitary Plan is a classic example of where many different competing and conflicting values and objectives are consulted on widely\u2014and I\u2019ll come back to that\u2014consulted on widely: the communities, those affected, whether they be businesses, whether they be professionals, people who have direct experience in subdivision, in establishing the infrastructure needed to service land, whether they be urban design professionals, architects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI\u2019m still at a loss to understand how, as an engineer who\u2019s come to Parliament, I find myself here today having to stand up for the rights of architects to design good homes. I thought all of those discussions had been had. I thought that there were already well understood urban design principles about outlook, sunlight, outdoor space, and access to amenities, and that we shouldn\u2019t need to be re-litigating those in the schedules in Part 2, and we certainly shouldn\u2019t be, essentially, carrying out urban design exercises, either in primary legislation by a select committee or the committee of the whole House. Parliament\u2019s job should never be to carry out urban design exercises. But that is what the schedules, essentially, provide for, with the design criteria for the medium-density residential standard. And the way that that design criteria, the way that the standard, is delivered is through the intensified, streamlined planning process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EQuite a few councils and developers\u2014those people who actually use the RMA\u2014and their planning professionals, the consultants who help them navigate their way through legislation, through planning law, pointed out that, actually, it would be helpful to have a streamlined planning process for a whole range of things. We know that K\u0101inga Ora operates a streamlined planning process, except it doesn\u2019t seem they want to do that for the private sector. We know that there\u2019s a fast-track consenting process for COVID-19 projects, some of which may or may not be related to COVID-19 and may or may not actually deliver homes or jobs or anything else either. But this process here actually sets out how councils and hearings panels are supposed to carry out their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt would be fair to say that without offering a similar process to the private sector developers who are bringing on tens of thousands of homes, some of them, like the Templeton Group, pointed out that they\u2019ve got a billion dollars\u2019 worth of work in the pipeline. They pointed out that any delays to the process they use under the Resource Management Act typically cost about a million dollars a year. That\u2019s the overhead just to have the project sitting, waiting to get into the Environment Court, waiting for a decision. They said that some of their projects have spent seven to eight years going through the planning process, going to appeal, and then going to various courts, including the High Court and above, to seek direction, essentially, to have decisions made about very basic elements of town planning\u2014where houses, where buildings, where streets should go. And what they\u2019re asking for is to have the same rights that every other council will have, which is to have access to the intensified, streamlined planning process. In fact, any streamlined planning process that enables them to seek consents under the Resource Management Act or subsequent\u2014[Bell rung] Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo the question is: will the Government consider actually allowing private developers to have access to the same process; if not, is it because the Minister and the Labour Party and the National Party, that crafted this bill, actually believe that all solutions, when it comes to housing intensity, actually sit with Government or local government? Because most New Zealanders would actually believe that Government is the problem when it comes to getting things built. Its regulations, its red tape\u2014it\u2019s how difficult it is to get consent, even for things like desperately needed waste-water system upgrades in places like Queenstown, on the shores of Lake Wakatipu, where it\u2019s been so difficult to install a waste-water pumping station that the council\u2019s had to go and apply for consent to continue wastewater discharges into that lake, because it\u2019s too hard to get consent to build the waste-water treatment stations that they want to. So they\u2019re in breach of consents. So an intensified, streamlined planning process is a good idea in principle, but limiting it only to local councils and to plans made specifically to implement the medium-density residential standard seems not just short-sighted but lacking in aspiration for a wholesale and complete reform of the planning process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard recently in select committee that that may well be the intention of the Minister\u2019s other legislation, the Natural and Built Environments Bill and maybe a strategic planning Act. We often hear these things referred to. They are some kind of Promised Land of planning and environmental management and urban development, and, yet, despite the fact that the Promised Land is, you know, not too far away, and while we\u2019re all paddling our waka, they\u2019re spending hundreds and hundreds of hours in select committee collecting thousands of submissions on that particular piece of legislation, intending to reform planning and enable housing and save the environment and save a whole lot of other things at the same time. This bill was being crafted in secret over months and months and months, while the select committee sat reviewing another piece of resource management legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EMany of the same questions that developers brought, councils even brought, and planning professionals brought to the committee asked the same question: why can the private sector not have access to a fast-track development process? Why are they subject to objections from organisations like Greenpeace, for example, and others who are given standing to object against what, essentially, are developments that deliver homes and communities and infrastructure to the people of New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo some of these fundamental issues about who has standing, who should be allowed to object, are not addressed in terms of the fundamental problems with the RMA. The ability to consent infrastructure to actually service the land that this upzoning provided for by the medium-density residential standard\u2014those matters are not dealt with. There was an opportunity to actually reform the RMA on the run, while more stuff is done down the track, like the Natural and Built Environments Bill. The ACT Party and other parties, developers, and submitters have all said that they want an opportunity to contribute, but there was no opportunity for consultation on this piece of legislation. There may have been a lot more easy wins in terms of intensified, streamlined planning processes than actually have been delivered to the House in this bill, and that comes back to the secrecy element, the fact that it was, essentially, cooked up over a number of months without the knowledge of the development community, the planning community, all of those professional engineers and architects and ecologists, geotechnical specialists who could have given advice to the Government and to officials on what a good short-term reform measure looked like. They weren\u2019t consulted. So now we have an intensified, streamlined planning process which only gives these rights to councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m asking the Minister is to please explain: why is this not being extended to the private sector? Why was consultation on this process not carried out with the private sector, and councils for that matter? And what is his plan to actually speed up planning to get more houses built?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1042f530bf748edb91f651671130d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1042f530bf748edb91f651671130d82\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a lot of questions raised in that contribution, and I\u2019ll try to address them. Can I thank the member Simon Court for the opening few sentences of that contribution, where he said to the committee that councils in our largest-growing cities have often found it hard to zone for intensity. And that\u2019s a simple truth; it\u2019s a self-evident truth, actually. And it\u2019s not the only reason why we\u2019ve got such high land price inflation, but it is a contributing factor to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill applies to the tier 1 councils\u2014there\u2019s five of them\u2014and if there\u2019s the occasional tier 2 council that needs it, we can bring them in, and tier 3 councils can also try and volunteer in if they want to, and some have said they want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe tier 1 councils are Auckland, Greater Hamilton, Greater Tauranga, Greater Wellington, and Greater Christchurch. In total, the territorial authorities that cover those areas, there\u2019s 12 of them, and when it came to bringing this to the attention of each of those territorial authorities, the Hon Megan Woods as housing Minister, and I as environment Minister, split it in two and phoned six of the mayors each. We then touched based with each other after we\u2019d done it. Both of us had four mayors who were very, very positive about this, because they recognise they need help to break through in what they need to do for their citizens, and these mayors want to do the right things for their citizens. They want them to have housing choices; they don\u2019t want rents to go too high, they don\u2019t want house prices to go to high, and they know, to use the language of the leader of the ACT Party, that it is actually the marginal cost of new supply that drives price. It is the marginal cost of the new house, including its land and its building, that drives the cost, obviously, of the new house, but it also drives the market for second-hand houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ETherefore, the increment to supply that you can bring about by enabling the land that\u2019s already within a city to be used more intensively\u2014really, the efficiency that you have from land use and infrastructure use drives through to the marginal cost of the new supply which drives through to the price of all housing. These mayors get that; they got that. And so four out of the six that I phoned were very, very positive, one was neutral, and one was a bit anti. And the experience of Minister Woods was the same. She had four that were effusive, really, one was sitting on the fence, and there was one that wasn\u2019t so keen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of some of the other issues that were raised, this isn\u2019t the sole answer to the housing crisis, and there are other things in responding to the housing crisis that are going well. Housebuilding in Auckland has doubled from 10,000 in 2017 to 19,000 this year. It\u2019s close to a doubling of housing, and it\u2019s very interesting that more than two-thirds of those new houses are actually these new style of houses where they\u2019re, effectively, semi-detached or attached three-storey houses. So that gives us confidence that we\u2019re on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the private plan changes point: planning rules, by and large, in respect of zoning rules, are the primary preserve of councils. That\u2019s what they\u2019re elected to do, which is a point that has been made by, amongst others, the ACT Party in this debate. So we think it is appropriate that they\u2019re the people to whom this is primarily delivered through. But, of course, the zoning rules that they allow in these cities apply for the benefit of all of the private developers, and the vast majority of development enabled by those changes to the planning rules will be by those private developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the process delays that Simon Court mentioned in terms of how long it can take a plan to proceed at the moment, I agree that that is unacceptable. This will actually assist in that, because we\u2019re actually going to permit three-storey types of dwellings as a building type through virtually all of these cities. There are some exceptions that we\u2019ve previously talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the process, actually, you couldn\u2019t do it any faster than we\u2019re actually legislating it for this, but it does show the tension between some of the traditional processes which take too long. In the face of a crisis, you do have to act quickly, and we think this is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc9d7a18c4b04af184614d10afe828f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc9d7a18c4b04af184614d10afe828f8\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So, in the whole intensification, streamlined planning process, one of the recommendations of the select committee, which has been picked up in the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), is that the scope of intensification planning instruments be broadened to enable provision of papa k\u0101inga and recognising that promoting papa k\u0101inga housing is an objective of the Government. But it\u2019s still on a different basis from the infill development, which becomes a permitted activity as of right through this bill. So there is Supplementary Order Paper 111, in the name of Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, proposing to have papa k\u0101inga activity as a controlled activity in a M\u0101ori purpose zone, residential zone, settlement zone, or any other zone on each site which is wholly or partly M\u0101ori customary land, M\u0101ori freehold land, or general land owned by M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the planning system and plan provisions and council\u2019s failure to adequately provide and encourage papa k\u0101inga has been a significant barrier to its development. So could the Minister provide some comment on, given that the SOP doesn\u2019t go as far as enabling papa k\u0101inga in the same way that it does enabling three-storey three unit infill development, what sort of guidance will be being provided by the Ministry for the Environment to our councils as to how they will go about enabling provision of papa k\u0101inga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue is the comments that Simon Court made in terms of the select committee finding itself dealing with the detail of urban design around things like outlook, space, and building height to boundary recession planes and the like. There has been quite a lot of concern that the standard that was recommended by the majority of the committee for outlook, for example, which affects interaction with neighbours\u2014it\u2019s 4 metres between dwellings, whereas the Auckland Unitary Plan provides for a 6-metre outlook standard. Hobsonville, which is widely promoted by many as epitomising very good medium-density development, has a 6-metre outlook standard. What is the proposal of Government if any of these detailed standards, which the select committee and the Government and National have arrived at, are found to be wanting? What is the process to change them? And given the significant expertise which the urban design community, architects, planners, and others contributed to the select committee process, what is going to be the Government\u2019s processes for developing the urban design guidelines to assist councils in terms of both the National Policy Statement for Urban Development and the medium-density residential standards (MDRS)? But, fundamentally, what is the processes for changing things that in the detail of the new Schedule 3A, we may have got wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225717ac449fb54977a43e7666384c2e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225717ac449fb54977a43e7666384c2e66\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. A lot of questions there, and if I omit any and the member takes another call, I\u2019d be happy to address them. In respect of papa k\u0101inga, thank you for the amendments that came through from the select committee, which we are adopting. Papa k\u0101inga on land that is within these new zoned areas, of course, gets the benefit of the change of zonings. If there is other land that is outside of urban zones on which papa k\u0101inga is to be to be built, then councils can include similar provisions in their plans for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the issues as to style, we shouldn\u2019t, I don\u2019t think, in Parliament prescribe design guidelines as if we want to be the architect\u2014and we\u2019re not. We\u2019re not. That\u2019s the error in the way in which it was put by Simon Court, because we\u2019re not. We\u2019re actually just permitting a certain density of housing to be built. How that\u2019s designed, whether people want to build it like that, that\u2019s up to them and if they have an architect, their architect. We\u2019re not prescribing how that is done. That said, there has been a request that was made clear through select committee that some design guidance would be useful for both councils and developers. So, in response to that, Ministry for the Environment, in consultation with planners from councils, will try and provide some non-statutory design guidance. We are concerned that if we were to leap to design standards that were of statutory effect, that we would actually be putting ourselves in the position of being the designer, and we don\u2019t want to do that. That said, there is probably a case for some design guidance to be developed in consultation with the planners who are dealing with these issues around the country\u2014not just the planners; also the urban design groups and civil society groups who have an interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, urban design guides do have a more prominent role in a lot of overseas jurisdictions where they are dealing with intensification or have been dealing with it for longer than New Zealand has been, and so we\u2019re willing to consider that issue again through the replacement of the RMA, the Natural and Built Environments Act. We are wary of going too far, too early, in respect of those design guides because we fear that they could be misused to effectively undermine the intent, which is to enable\u2014not require but enable\u2014intensification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcc059fa63874a7caf761b579a88d77e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcc059fa63874a7caf761b579a88d77e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Chair. I think we\u2019ve just seen one of the problems with this whole exercise of attempting to do urban planning on every suburban street of New Zealand from this Parliament. The Minister just said, \u201CWell, I don\u2019t think it would be right for Parliament to try and do urban design from here.\u201D, and he\u2019s absolutely right. So he actually does understand and accept the problem, but, equally, by putting a zone prescription on every residential section in the country\u2014and I say \u201Cevery\u201D because, according to the Minister, all the tier 2 cities, as he calls them, are going to be jumping up and down and wanting to have this. We shall see\u2014we\u2019re going to actually have a terrible, terrible problem here. And it\u2019s this: this statute is going to put into law a medium-density residential standard that, effectively, says you can have a three-storey building a metre from your boundary, with no urban design standards, with a floor to ceiling window on the third floor looking into your kid\u2019s bedroom and there\u2019s nothing you can do about it. Of course, the Minister might say, \u201COh, but it\u2019s laissez-faire. Everyone should support that.\u201D Well, actually, here\u2019s the thing: if you think hard about public policy, then you understand that the role of Government as a regulator is to address market failures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another thought: market failures are not when a market outcome is something you don\u2019t like; specifically, it is when the game theory outcome of people participating in a market is not Pareto optimal. This is just basic 101 stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EPeople who believe in markets and free society often come to the conclusion that, in some of those circumstances, it\u2019s actually worthwhile having a regulation. And one of those is urban design standards: things like overlooking, things like overshadowing. Often, the balance and the cost-benefit analysis of whether you need a certain level of intervention and regulation is specific to the place, to the characteristics of the location, to people and community, and to the provision of infrastructure in that place. Those are all the reasons why you might want to have urban design standards. That\u2019s why, for example, in Auckland, we have the Auckland Design Manual to stop two people doing what is best for them but getting an outcome that is actually worse for everyone. That\u2019s the simple basis for having regulations. It can actually increase overall welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis statute, which puts in place this medium-density residential standard, denies that opportunity to communities, and that is why it actually reduces people\u2019s overall welfare. Now, the Minister would like to say that \u201COh no, no, it\u2019s OK. We\u2019ve got 150 pages of analysis.\u201D, but I asked him in the previous stage: where is the analysis that defines the problem with housing supply as being one of zoning capacity? And he couldn\u2019t do it. All he could say was: \u201CIn general, it will be more efficient if people live closer together.\u201D, and \u201CIn general, it\u2019s going to be good to have more zone space.\u201D He couldn\u2019t answer the question: where\u2019s the analysis that it\u2019s actually going to work in Auckland, in Hamilton, in cities in New Zealand as we stand right now thinking at the margin? So what he\u2019s left with is an increase in zoning capacity that may not be serviced, but, if it is, it is going to lower people\u2019s overall welfare because of the kinds of market failures, tragedy of the commons, development that goes on side by side where people actually lower each other\u2019s quality of life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, ACT has thought a bit about this, and, in particular, we have read the analysis that this bill was based on by Sense Partners and PricewaterhouseCoopers and we understand how it works, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve been explaining throughout this committee. The Minister is either wilfully ignoring it or hasn\u2019t read it, because what that analysis said is that when, in 2016, the Auckland Unitary Plan introduced the mixed housing urban and mixed housing suburban zones, there was a proportionate increase in floor area ratio in areas that were denser. He\u2019s extrapolated that\u2019s going to keep happening here. But what\u2019s interesting is that they didn\u2019t model the medium-density residential standard. That\u2019s never been modelled. What they did model was mixed housing urban and that\u2019s what they based their projections on. They also modelled mixed housing suburban, and what that analysis says\u2014if we just accept for a moment that there isn\u2019t actually a binding constraint of infrastructure and that, actually, there is going to be a linear extrapolation of the amount of homes they get built, allowing for proximity to city centre and a few other variables they used\u2014is that, actually, you don\u2019t get much less additional homes by using mixed housing suburban. That is a zone that is widely used in Auckland. It allows two homes. It allows a 3-metre high and 45-degree setback. It\u2019s one that is familiar to the planners and the processes there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe think, if the Government wanted to rely on the modelling it\u2019s got\u2014and I\u2019ve given all the reasons why they shouldn\u2019t rely on that modelling, because there\u2019s a non-sequitur that because you added more zoning capacity and that gave you more homes, at one point in time that will always be true; at other points of time, it\u2019s simply illogical. But if we just accept that for a moment, because, clearly, it\u2019s going to be difficult to move the Government on it, then why not use a familiar zone that is going to have less effect on other people\u2019s welfare? That, according to their own modelling, shows we\u2019ll get almost the same amount of increased housing. Now, that\u2019s got to be a good deal. You know, they could achieve some of their goal, they could get more housing, they could make it more acceptable to people who will be upset about this when they get no design standards, three storeys a metre from their boundary; floor-to-ceiling window on the third floor, looking in on their kid\u2019s bedroom\u2014people will be upset about that. They could avoid that outcome and get more housing. Now, that\u2019s got to be a good deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThankfully, my ever-diligent colleague Simon Court has produced a fairly detailed Supplementary Order Paper. There are amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 107 that would replace the medium-density residential standard that these guys have provided, with a standard that, basically, replicates the mixed-housing suburban (MHS) zone in Auckland. So, in Auckland, it would mean that all areas that are single-family home, for example, would be upgraded to MHS. MHS areas would stay the same, areas that are mixed housing urban would stay the same, areas in town centres will stay the same, terrace housing and apartment building areas\u2014they would all stay the same. But the net effect would be to upgrade single-family homes to mixed-housing suburban, and, you know, the Government\u2019s modelling shows that would actually give the increase of housing that they want, or very close to it, notwithstanding the other constraints in the supply chain, and it would be familiar, and it would be a lot more acceptable to people who will otherwise object. The Government should think about that. The National Party should think about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EYou know, it\u2019s interesting, they say, \u201COh, David Seymour, he just stands up for his constituents.\u201D, but keep saying that, by the way, you know, like, every time you guys accuse me of standing up for my constituents, they hear it, and it\u2019s helpful. So thank you. Please keep saying it. And people outside the electorate I currently represent, they hear it too. So, you know, the more you guys say that, I do appreciate it, and I hope you\u2019ll keep saying it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut this amendment would increase the outlook spaces\u2014that is the zones outside primary windows, such as the primary bedroom window. It would increase the outlook space outside secondary bedroom windows to be like the mixed housing suburban zone that is so familiar to us in Auckland. It would allow urban design consideration so that we don\u2019t end up with the kind of unfortunate circumstances where two neighbours do what they view is in their own best interest, but they end up in conflict and they both end up worse off than they could have otherwise been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI say all this because, you know, the Minister likes to talk about me and my political philosophy; I don\u2019t think he understands it that well. We\u2019re engaged in making good public policy, of having the role of Government restricted in a principled way to make people\u2019s lives better, to regulate genuine market failures, and to spend tax on things that are public goods that can\u2019t otherwise be produced\u2014although that\u2019s not really relevant here. We are wary of market imperfections about network effects of infrastructure. These are all the things that you have to do when you do public policy as a big kid. But, unfortunately, the Government hasn\u2019t left any time, because they want to rush this through Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220c5b52fed7ca4e259866b29795768a36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c5b52fed7ca4e259866b29795768a36\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E At the heart of this bill, it is pretty simple. We\u2019re not requiring people to build three storeys, but we\u2019re letting them. We think that Auckland and our other large centres need that in order to house people affordably. The ACT Party obviously disagrees with that, and they\u2019re free to disagree\u2014similar points were made in the earlier part. But that\u2019s why we won\u2019t be agreeing to the Supplementary Order Paper that would, effectively, render this bill ineffective by reducing substantially\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d10b4acf6a4ba181663fbbd8e6087f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s modelling says it would be effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ecddc9856146bfae7302c1d316c50c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, according to the advice that I\u2019ve got, adopting a\u20143-metre or a 4-metre?\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd072df19dd47e1a6982ebda541be1c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has he read it? Has he read anything?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a106f37a6c9b4a33940e3a175f6ad5b6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a 3-metre boundary\u2014of course I\u2019ve read it. The 3-metre, 45-degree recession plane would reduce the housing outcome by 31 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022179e026088be4e88993f1834d8d6c6a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022179e026088be4e88993f1834d8d6c6a4\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The Green Party won\u2019t be supporting that Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) either, because it is the mixed housing suburban rather than the urban one, and so it goes completely against getting more intensification. But in Part 2, Schedule 2, which inserts a new Schedule 3B, it amends the National Policy Statement on Urban Development 2020. I would be interested if the Minister, as Minister for the Environment, as someone who has always recognised that the economy depends on the environment\u2014why the National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPSUD) primary objective one is about well-functioning urban environments that enable all people and communities to provide for their social, economic, and cultural wellbeing, and their health and safety now and into the future, and there is no mention of environmental wellbeing. For healthy cities where people have clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, space to exercise, get the mental wellbeing from being out in nature, what is the Minister\u2019s response to Supplementary Order Paper 114, which seeks to insert in objective one of the National Policy Statement (NPS) on Urban Development a reference to environmental wellbeing as well as social and economic wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ENew Schedule 3B, in the Minister\u2019s SOP, inserts a number of other policies into the NPS on Urban Development. What the Green Party is concerned about is that there is only passing reference to nature in the existing NPSUD. It was something we brought up last June when it was being developed, and so we\u2019re seeking through this Supplementary Order Paper a new policy that encourages an increase in urban tree cover, both through the retention of existing trees and also ensuring that there\u2019s easy public access to natural areas as well as open space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe only reference at the moment in the NPS is to having good accessibility for all people to natural spaces. There\u2019s nothing about encouraging nature within the urban environment, and yet sustainable development is all about integrating nature, not exceeding nature\u2019s capacity. So, if we are not to have cities that are just hard surfaces and expanses of concrete, is the Minister considering any future amendments to the National Policy Statement for Urban Development to better recognise nature? First question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThen the other issue is there\u2019s another Supplementary Order Paper in my name, SOP 109, which is all about development bonuses for developers if they meet certain site factors, and they relate to things like water-sensitive design, an ability to have solar panels on roofs, and encouraging more energy-efficient buildings, which, of course, will help our housing stock reduce energy use and contribute to reduction of emissions. Development bonuses aren\u2019t something that the bill encourages. And yet the Government, through K\u0101inga Ora, has an urban design statement, which is the simple guide to urban design and development that Housing New Zealand put out. It\u2019s got a lot of principles in there about environmental design, about encouraging good stormwater management, making the best use of existing natural environments, three waters management, sustainable use of resources\u2014things like energy-efficient design. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe have heard from officials that things like that are best done through the building code. We know that the building code is inadequate. This bill, with the standards for medium density in Schedule 3, makes a number of provisions about building envelopes and the like. What proposals does the Minister have to use both the Resource Management Act and to encourage his colleagues around the Building Act to really improve our standards if, as my other SOPs have failed, I suspect this one will as well? But it\u2019s the principle of ensuring that our building stock is more efficient, that it doesn\u2019t increase stormwater runoff. We had a lot of submissions to select committee about increased stormwater flows and houses having to have increased capacity with tanks to avoid or to mitigate the peak flows. We are doing nothing through this bill to really encourage sustainable design. We are encouraging more intensification, but not well-designed houses in terms of energy efficiency, minimising water runoff, and ensuring that there\u2019s an increased capacity for things like solar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022191eb9c6db8040e6b603e9e09cafaad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022191eb9c6db8040e6b603e9e09cafaad5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the member\u2019s right that we won\u2019t be supporting that Supplementary Order Paper. And the member addressed one of the reasons why in her own contribution. We think that the system would get very gummed up if we, effectively, imposed the building code or Building Act issues relating to the quality of building materials into the planning code. If you want more energy-efficient building materials as a required minimum, there were arguments for that through the building code, but we don\u2019t think that we should be imposing it through this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002205a21e77d8cc4a429c406cd0a1ca2021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a21e77d8cc4a429c406cd0a1ca2021\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a place for codifying establishing standards. The ACT Party believes that, for example, New Zealand should adopt the building material standards from countries that have complementary conditions, like Canada and Japan and California, for example, when it comes to rainfall and seismic. There is a place to codify the effects on the environment of development and activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe Infrastructure Commission, in their submission to another resource management bill, the Natural and Built Environments Bill\u2014they proposed that rather than developers, contractors, and infrastructure operators having to get consents for everything\u2014that if the effects were well understood, because we do this stuff every day, then rather than obtaining consents, those matters could be codified. But they also pointed out that requires extensive consultation, to make sure that the unintended or perverse consequences from hastily thought-out pieces of legislation don\u2019t end up causing a whole lot of a fix down the track that impose cost on business and actually reduce the overall welfare of the communities that pieces of legislation are proposing to help. And that\u2019s why the medium-density residential standard (MDRS), like many things this Government has promoted, is well-intentioned but ultimately doomed to fail. It won\u2019t deliver the 100,000 homes, just like another policy announced by a recent Labour-led Government also failed to deliver 100,000 homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about the medium-density residential standard. The ACT Party does not intend that we take on the role of urban designers or architects. It\u2019s actually the Government that\u2019s forced us to adopt that role, because by including the medium-density residential standard in primary legislation, that\u2019s the field on which we are forced to engage. So our proposal to instead replace it with what the PricewaterhouseCoopers - Sense Partners cost-benefit analysis demonstrates will be just about as good, the Auckland Unitary Plan mixed housing suburban standard. People say, \u201COh, but that\u2019s only two storeys, and what we want is three storeys and three houses on a lot.\u201D Well, Urban Auckland provided a fantastic submission where they show quite clearly that on a typical section in Auckland, 800-odd square metres, you can put three homes. You can achieve a couple of fantastic two-storey, great lifestyle apartment or terrace units, 82 square metres each, and a standalone two-storey home with a separate garage, 173 square metres. That\u2019s a very large home by any standard, and that\u2019s under the mixed housing suburban standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo what that demonstrates, actually, is that the medium-density residential standard\u2014it\u2019s not just unnecessary, it\u2019s not just complex, it doesn\u2019t just introduce a whole lot of unnecessary impacts on people\u2019s lifestyle and wellbeing and ultimate welfare. It doesn\u2019t have to force the stripping of all the vegetation and trees, as my colleague and the Environment Committee chair, the Hon Eugenie Sage, pointed out. The mixed housing suburban standard actually allows the retention of significant green spaces and trees and outdoor living, sunlight, views that the medium density residential standard does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why ACT advocates to incorporate, essentially, the Auckland Unitary Plan mixed housing suburban standard in the Schedule 1, to replace the MDRS. And while the ACT Party can\u2019t support blanket tree protection, we do recognise that there are significant environmental benefits from having a certain amount of permeable surfaces, landscaped areas. These things all add to the wellbeing of the people who live in these homes and communities. That is why, as a recovering civil engineer, I\u2019ve had to take on the role of urban designer advocate for architects, and that\u2019s not a role I ever expected, or, in fact, any member of Parliament should have to, but that is what the Minister for the Environment is asking from us through this bill. And that is why ACT is advocating very strongly for the mixed housing suburban standards to replace the Government\u2019s standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002226d372cc1bc94950ba2ce0cec1e68594\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226d372cc1bc94950ba2ce0cec1e68594\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I repeat: the reason why we won\u2019t be adopting that is it would, effectively, frustrate the purpose of the bill substantially by reducing the number of building opportunities by more than 30 percent. We think that that would not be as good an outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220e7f705456a8446b91214701d6d03720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e7f705456a8446b91214701d6d03720\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I think that\u2019s a very interesting answer that\u2019s well worth getting some more detail from the Minister, if, indeed, he can provide it. We always hold out hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Minister has said that introducing the mixed housing suburban standard in lieu of the medium-density residential standard would reduce the anticipated yield of housing by\u2014of additional housing that is\u2014by 31 percent. So, you know, I\u2019m no mathematical expert, but that seems to me that the mixed housing suburban proposal that Simon Court\u2019s put up, as amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 107, would actually increase housing by 69 percent, that\u2019s 69 percent additional housing, if we get that right. Now, of course, he might argue that not all of the extra housing we expect will come from this bill. I guess another way he might put it is that he\u2019s going to get 69 percent of what he\u2019s promised. Then you ask \u201CWell, what he\u2019s promised is actually just a modelled outcome that made an assumption that increasing zoning intensity would yield more floor area ratio at the same rate that the upzoning of the Auckland Unitary Plan (AUP) yielded in 2016.\u201D, which, as we\u2019ve said many times, and the Minister\u2019s never answered, is a highly questionable assumption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, I just wonder if the Minister\u2014why he wouldn\u2019t be happy with 69 percent increase if it also was more acceptable to neighbours, to councils, more familiar, would actually lead to higher quality urban environments of the type that the Green members referred to? The Hobsonville Point development has some similar features to what this amendment produces, such as the 6-metre outlook space outside principle windows. So why wouldn\u2019t the Minister want that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the next question for him: what sort of analysis is he relying on when he says that it would only be 69 percent as good as mixed housing urban? What\u2019s he relying on there? It\u2019s just purely the extrapolation from what happened in the AUP. It\u2019s got nothing to do with what might happen in the present time. So if he can explain that, then he can explain what cost-benefit analysis he\u2019s done with other costs, such as shading of neighbours, overlooking of neighbours, and the undermining of urban design standards that are actually part of the Government\u2019s own policies\u2014and part of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s policies, for another thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ECan he explain how the Government chose between the mixed housing urban standard at one level and the mixed housing suburban standard at another level? Because they modelled the increase in housing from both of them, so can he explain why he believes that the costs of going to mixed housing urban instead of mixed housing suburban would be greater? And if he can explain why the mixed housing urban zone would be better on a full cost-benefit analysis than the mixed housing suburban zone on a full cost-benefit analysis, then, perhaps, he could explain why he didn\u2019t use the mixed housing urban zone? Because if he can explain that, then, I guess, the answer is, actually, we should amend the bill not to use the medium-density residential zone but the mixed housing urban.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut, first, he\u2019s got to explain 31 percent less than what? Is he saying that the mixed housing suburb, it\u2019ll be 31 percent less than mixed housing urban or less than medium-density residential standards? Once he\u2019s explained which one it is, what other cost-benefit analysis is he relying on? Just say that, actually, the mixed housing suburban wouldn\u2019t give greater overall benefits, including extra housing and better urban amenity for people that want to live in these houses he\u2019d like to see built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022779c8e83b6a4453aa41390dccf2a5a0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022779c8e83b6a4453aa41390dccf2a5a0b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The urban Auckland modelling that the member relies on used a site size of 843 square metres. The sites that are predominant in Auckland are, of course, much smaller than that, on average. The analysis that was done in the bill, as was presented to the select committee, was based on site sizes of 412 square metres. The additional analysis that the select committee then requested was what would be the effect on the housing provided as modelled when it went into select committee compared with a change to those height-to-boundary rules, but still in respect of a 412 square metre site, and that analysis was that if the height-to-boundary rules changed to 3 metres and a 45-degree recession plane, there would be a substantial unwinding of the intention of this, which is to enable the sort of intensification that is already occurring in some parts of cities, some parts of Wellington, some parts of Auckland, but is unable to occur because the choices of landowners are hobbled by restrictive planning rules that do not allow those densities to be built in those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think the language that the National Party uses in respect of this is quite fair, and I\u2019m surprised that I haven\u2019t heard any of this from the ACT Party. They say that, at one level, this bill is giving choice to landowners to develop their properties to three storeys, with smaller housing units in order to sometimes accommodate an ageing parent or someone who\u2019s disabled or just because they want to cut off the back of their section and get a bit of money in retirement whilst enabling someone else to build a house there and live in it. It\u2019s not a radical bill; it\u2019s an effective bill to address the housing crisis by increasing the opportunities to build houses that have a smaller footprint and a smaller land cost. No one\u2019s forced to build them, we\u2019re just enabling it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022367d70fbf8894900aaf1b72ea23ce1c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022367d70fbf8894900aaf1b72ea23ce1c8\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225c58a2e2721147e48ea7fff90500a803\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c58a2e2721147e48ea7fff90500a803\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m tempted, but I\u2019ll go with Simon Court, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002281c393b0627749d38bc7789090f4fefd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c393b0627749d38bc7789090f4fefd\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to come to another matter. We\u2019re actually circling back to the provisions relating to partly completed proposed plans. So while we understand that the Minister is not prepared to move on the medium-density residential standards, even though it appears that there is no updated cost-benefit analysis for the claims that he has made today, that was asked for at the Environment Committee this week\u2014and we still haven\u2019t seen the analysis, although the results of the analysis have been reported in the media as being only a reduction of 3 to 4 percent from the Government\u2019s initial proposal of a 6-metre high wall. Now it\u2019s a 4-metre high wall, 1 metre from the boundary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut there is another matter, which we\u2019ve covered to some extent, but which is still important and needs to be exposed, and that is that for private plan changes. We\u2019re talking about developers like the Templeton Group, which have, through one of the companies they acquired\u2014Todd Property\u2014developed Stonefields in Auckland, a former quarry site, into one of the most exquisite master-planned developments, a combination of apartment living, terraced housing, and single homes. It\u2019s a balance of intensification of lifestyles and opportunities for people to\u2014at the time that the development was first offered, off the plans\u2014buy affordable homes, close to transportation networks, close to amenities. That\u2019s a site that was at one point tasked with being Auckland\u2019s future regional landfill in the 1990s that instead was repurposed to an extremely high-quality master-planned development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo it shows you that if we trust the private sector to actually deliver homes and communities, they will deliver much better outcomes than a regional landfill in an old quarry pit. They will deliver some of the best master-planned developments anywhere in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe evidence from that group, the Templeton Group, from the Adare Co. in Hamilton, from Beachlands South consortium\u2014which also includes the New Zealand Superannuation Fund as a large part of the consortium, an organisation which, while it can\u2019t speak for itself because it is, essentially, not able to because it\u2019s a Government entity. But what they have asked for is for their private plan change proposals, which set out the most exquisite community developments: intensity, apartments, terraced housing around retail and community centres, and, of course, single homes around the margins. As they pointed out, those single homes actually\u2014the single-home zones, which, essentially, comply with the standards of the mixed housing suburban, they\u2019re quite large homes and additional dwellings on these properties, they fit in with the natural environment in those parts of these master-planned sites, which are more sensitive, which are closer to streams and waterways, closer to existing remnant bush areas, for example, where the developers and iwi and their ecology advisers all agree it would be highly inappropriate to locate buildings at the scale and size that the medium-density residential standard proposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat is why I have today tabled a further Supplementary Order Paper proposing to replace Part 4 in Schedule 3 with a new Part 4. If the Minister intends that local councils should be forced to include the medium-density residential standard in their plan changes, well, what private developers are asking for, particularly those ones who have delivered the most exquisite, high-quality, and desirable developments New Zealand\u2019s ever seen in the past 30 years, who have a pipeline of $8 billion worth of work, some of them, and billions of dollars\u2019 worth of others\u2014what they are asking for is just a blanket exemption. They\u2019ve said the years and years of investment in technical investigations, in ecology reports, finding out when the bats come and go from the remnant bush on their development sites\u2014they don\u2019t want all of that to be wasted when they have to redesign and remodel their developments to accept these three-storey, three-unit boxes on what are currently designed for single-home sites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe planning consultants who spoke to the committee also pointed out that when they\u2019re designing these developments, what they\u2019re designed for, the infrastructure accommodates much higher intensity and density at the centre, around the town centres, along transport corridors\u2014kind of sounds like urban planning to me. That\u2019s what they do, and they do it really well. They\u2019ve said that the pipes are much larger. The waste-water pump stations are more frequent and have to be larger. The stormwater detention ponds and all those other environmental mitigations are designed for density at the centre and low density at the margins of these developments, because that\u2019s what good urban design practice has evolved into over the past 50 or so years since World War II, since New Zealanders returning from World War II had the opportunity to buy a piece of quarter-acre paradise. Then those New Zealanders and the new Zealanders moved to cities like Auckland in the 1990s, who wanted to live in more dense communities subdivided existing eighth of acres or quarter acres and put an extra house or a couple of houses on the back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EActually, all of that can be delivered in a far more planned and high-quality way through accepting that there is a good urban design set of principles and that the master planners delivering projects like at Peacocke in Hamilton East, the Adare Co., and the Beachland South developers in Beachlands Maraetai, where they propose that their high intensity, their higher densities are much closer to the ferry terminal, to public transport, and to nearby schools. They don\u2019t consider it\u2019s appropriate to have much higher densities much further from the town centres. They understood, having studied urban design and planning for decades, that, actually, you want to build up closer to where you\u2019ve got social services, community services, transportation, and where your bulk infrastructure is located. The reason they\u2019re asking for an exemption is not just because they\u2019re confident that they can do it better than the Government, which, by any analysis, whether it\u2019s a cost-benefit analysis that we haven\u2019t seen yet or that they could\u2014what they\u2019re asking for is an exemption to be allowed to continue to proceed with the high-quality developments that are in train.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAs I pointed out earlier this morning, it takes a long time and a significant cost and investment of resources and technical expertise even to get to the pre-lodgment stage with private plan changes. What people outside this House might know as a change of zoning right from, say, rural land or a bit of rural and a bit of residential: combine all of those titles and land types into one larger block of land, design a new community around the existing environment, the remnant bush, the streams and waterways that are there, and actually deliver some of the best quality of life that New Zealanders everywhere would aspire to. This bill would extinguish those developments\u2014actually extinguish them. This is from a Government which keeps talking about wellbeing and which has all kinds of wellbeing measures, although we never actually see the measurement. They don\u2019t actually want to report any of that wellbeing. But we know they believe in wellbeing, or they certainly did once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat is why the ACT Party proposes in this Supplementary Order Paper labelled A\u2014and it\u2019s on the Table. It\u2019s very simple. It says that if the Minister wants to impose this flawed medium-density residential standard on local councils, well, that\u2019s up to him to negotiate. But what the ACT Party is seeking is, actually, just completely exempt private plan changes, master-planned developments\u2014the private sector\u2014from this flawed approach to urban planning and design. New Zealanders do aspire to live in high-quality homes in wonderful communities where their wellbeing is put first. So does the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022604aeb9570f44e76a06dc532df660c5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022604aeb9570f44e76a06dc532df660c5a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019re not extinguishing one development\u2014not one. So the member need not be concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of master-planned developments, we\u2019re not requiring them to be built in any particular way. They can build them however they want, you know, subject to the existing rules that councils apply. All this legislation does is enable the underlying zoning to enable densification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022af2db9880a7e42278ad60d78f52f6dca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af2db9880a7e42278ad60d78f52f6dca\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220aefbd1571374aaa93261469f30e1913\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00227c026efbba894842985124958c5ee22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c026efbba894842985124958c5ee22a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 106 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002281e853df2fc74957acc4f60ec166c8d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ec0d4ace6e7d4c1cbf0fe279f737ed42\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df98bc59a7248e3ad8b2a2d7bc67f19\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments to Supplementary Order Paper 106 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 114 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b079d79149fe467a9224cb87e554f573\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373a5741da8647d0882ab128d39b6697\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 106 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022296825ad1db24a3bb2d8090dedd00e90\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022700d977cd4594adbb89653212121f22f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022700d977cd4594adbb89653212121f22f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Court\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1, new Schedule 3A, Part 2, clause 11(1), and replacing clauses 14 and 15, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 107 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question is that Simon Court\u2019s remaining amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 107 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ade039e55f3949668cc83cf914348eb2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225951f7ecc8c34a94af52bc944361c1b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225951f7ecc8c34a94af52bc944361c1b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1, new Schedule 3A, Part 2, clauses 10(1) and 11(1) set out on Supplementary Order Paper 108 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s remaining amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 108 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002264efb291e8a642b18a5a53888197c70b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022efa25551161242cf98c7c27911518f59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efa25551161242cf98c7c27911518f59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1, new Schedule 3A, Part 2, clauses 10(1) and (2) set out on Supplementary Order Paper 109 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s remaining amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 109 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002275cdac992c4c49429a3c604499a732b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002270149e67129a4afdb17c68098333f800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270149e67129a4afdb17c68098333f800\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Elizabeth Kerekere\u2019s amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 111 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022445907ea8a8e4a519a88b06611921940\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229e6a598fcfa64d3bbafb4864a9032d54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e6a598fcfa64d3bbafb4864a9032d54\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224f8394c921344e91aee6e3f88e5c9d18\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d06cb18d15464c4faf5e855f2d9b556c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d06cb18d15464c4faf5e855f2d9b556c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Schedule 1, as amended, stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022376ddb92ef8b48ccb5379e379c21fa27\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f61687d04cf8495fa7ce547731439fb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f61687d04cf8495fa7ce547731439fb7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 106 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c3b03de9a4e440f6aa4df3f9b95bfdb4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2994bf19dab441caa9da75ebb3a5076\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2994bf19dab441caa9da75ebb3a5076\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s amendment to new Schedule 3B, Policy 3, in Schedule 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 110 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Eugenie Sage\u2019s remaining amendments to Schedule 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 110 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d9bcbee689674a0f842cf23e74772744\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002266fa7407f1cc4ab68502c68c0a0e170b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266fa7407f1cc4ab68502c68c0a0e170b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Schedule 2, as amended, stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022065457657e8f43c2bf557358cd7c7d1c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225afb92506c0a470aab67309f858dce21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225afb92506c0a470aab67309f858dce21\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simon Court\u2019s amendment to Supplementary Order Paper 106 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 117 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022390f0b250d1b4915885c18b6b99aa1d1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002284f819d5a712471bbd36e46f758dfeda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284f819d5a712471bbd36e46f758dfeda\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 3 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 106 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bfd9be61eff74494bac48f56aa8e743d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022213bd546c22145c9aafa7ee6644daba8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022213bd546c22145c9aafa7ee6644daba8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Schedule 3, as amended, stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f0c5e4aa6b744428b4041770db4cd429\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 3 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1e0e5a9cd084b22a7aecf2b3ea6de3f\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022581d7eb3ece74c6f8c9e0d11f59a977f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022581d7eb3ece74c6f8c9e0d11f59a977f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the final debate: clauses 1 to 3, the debate on title, commencement, and the principal Act. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6ea417df30c4a18aee3d274b68a3a02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6ea417df30c4a18aee3d274b68a3a02\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clause 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022173a8db0275545839020d45a317eb52f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225a137ed245bd4effb52300995b22f5f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a137ed245bd4effb52300995b22f5f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clause 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c5f43c50d31d455bb047d3baa257ede0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000322\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1c81794b4dd4a64b28005b10e08faf4\u0022\u003ESexual Violence Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efe34e734307410599a0fc011c450085\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000325\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 7 December.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220742ca430976468ca9b71ca73bc883af\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223ee1859e4e8348f4879f841a42d67c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ee1859e4e8348f4879f841a42d67c6d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the continuation of the committee stage of the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill. Members, when the committee was lasting considering this bill, we were on Part 2. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00229dcfee2cb188466e92316c3c8323088b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dcfee2cb188466e92316c3c8323088b\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. In the spirit of the previous contributions that National members have been making on the bill, I obviously won\u2019t reiterate the specific arguments that relate to previous parts. But I think that as we\u2019re now entering the next phase of the debate, it\u2019s probably worth just stating for the record the big picture that applies, including to this part\u2014namely, that National, of course, as we expect all members of the House do, wishes to see procedures that are appropriate in a courtroom setting in relation to those who are complaining of a sexual violence - type offence. It\u2019s appropriate for them to be heard respectfully and, of course, also important at the same time that a fair trial is conducted so that justice may be done and without prejudicing the rights of anyone to a fair trial, not only for their sake but of course for the sake of the system more generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo that was the tenor of the comments that we were making on the previous parts. They do still apply. We have probably a few more specific comments to make in relation to the current part, but noting that our particular Supplementary Order Papers making specific suggestions previously have been voted down. We do just sound a note a caution about the desire to ensure that we have on our statute book laws that, basically, don\u2019t contravene that right to a fair trial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s probably enough from me by way of opening remarks, and if the Minister has any comments to make in relation to that, we would be grateful to hear them. But I understand my colleague the Hon Paul Goldsmith will have some further comments to make as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225be5e54a599d477e9ed655019cde03f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225be5e54a599d477e9ed655019cde03f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Supplementary Order Paper 105 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 116 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228a7db6db03404fefbb3fe15d621a7230\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a7db6db03404fefbb3fe15d621a7230\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 105, as amended, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00226236a89ee3da4084b9f254d70a984d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226236a89ee3da4084b9f254d70a984d3c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Chris Penk\u2019s amendment to Part 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3e6f2bdab324c41a7dbf46bdb014017\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3e6f2bdab324c41a7dbf46bdb014017\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 2, as amended, stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EPart 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1ff9c5ec89b4b8488a645427747165e\u0022\u003EPart 3  Amendments to Criminal Procedure Act 2011, and the Schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a61cba0c4f5e4021874e77054d0f623b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a61cba0c4f5e4021874e77054d0f623b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 3. This is the debate on clauses 28 to 33, and Part 3 of the Schedule, \u201CAmendments to Criminal Procedure Act 2011\u201D. The question is that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022da84fbd560cf4cc7861583792077bcb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da84fbd560cf4cc7861583792077bcb6\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E By way of final comments on this legislation, we\u2019ve had a lengthy debate about it, and what we\u2019ve outlined on this side of the House is that there\u2019s an absolute agreement around the need for procedures that enable complainants in sexual violence cases to have their cases heard and to make the process easier for them, recognising the trauma involved in these very difficult cases. Our primary concern has been in relation to two areas, one being the pre-recording of videos, of evidence, and the concern that that makes it more difficult for defendants to effectively cross-examine and defend themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe do have to remember that we don\u2019t live in a perfect world and not every complainant is a victim, and that is the point of the trial process: to determine whether a sexual assault or violence has occurred. By necessity, it is a very difficult and traumatic experience because, whatever happens, the results are very high stakes for the defendant, who could find him or herself behind bars for many years as a result of the outcome, and therefore it should be scrutinised with the highest degree of process and done properly in the basis of a fair trial. So we\u2019re very concerned to ensure that this legislation does not lead to the inability of defendants to effectively defend themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo when we come to this Part 3 of the legislation\u2014Mr Chair, in terms of the commencement, is it in this part or is it the next part? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1333e0d8fd14bb49c31efa521f72114\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in\u2014not in this part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451034946cc04fcba403eab62b575a86\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220689aacd27d443e9902e3bd97c248f6d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The commencement clause is not in this part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc625f13c5a14db28d62685e9d406e6e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So my question to the Minister in relation to this part is: where is his confidence that the defendants in this situation, following the changes proposed in this legislation in terms of the proposed changes to both the videos, pre-recorded videos, and the inability to raise questions around a relationship with a partner or a previous relationship\u2014how he can assure the people of New Zealand that everybody will continue to have access to a fair trial to defend themselves using all the information available in the actual case as it arises? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022383f4c8c10af4ed7ad0c3313ef7d9cd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022383f4c8c10af4ed7ad0c3313ef7d9cd2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kris Faafoi\u2019s amendments to Part 3 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 105 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1ed1c5d176b4118be2c98934e04161e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1ed1c5d176b4118be2c98934e04161e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Chris Penk\u2019s amendments to Part 3 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 5 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f05e4baf45c6472ea1dd89001a2d4b37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 33\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 85\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220075444c7fcd45689ca6df926d2ade37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220075444c7fcd45689ca6df926d2ade37\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 3, as amended, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221c3e91d3550e43f59ad33fec0bc3564d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3, as amended, agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002249e1979f7145496a805b38d209525ebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249e1979f7145496a805b38d209525ebb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to the Schedule set out on Supplementary Order Paper 105 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002237672c11a04e4e238a455e57023fa0d0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224c1846a5ebaa4c179bd89127ffc98e8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c1846a5ebaa4c179bd89127ffc98e8a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Schedule, as amended, stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223e6fce61602f41ab854bf3fa797517f2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227782ef023983489199bd12c4924f0ad1\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002283bb6524aa754df485a6b797f3e77a7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283bb6524aa754df485a6b797f3e77a7c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come to the final debate: clauses 1 and 2, the debate on title and commencement. The question is that clauses 1 and 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00222c1fe9f74a30445897d2c4ca6f02118d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c1fe9f74a30445897d2c4ca6f02118d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E The only question I\u2019d put to the Minister is: will he consider including in this legislation a review after three years of this legislation as a matter of course? Because we have heard through this debate very confident assertions from the Minister that everything will be fine and that New Zealanders will continue to have access to a fair trial to defend themselves against serious charges. We\u2019ve outlined serious concerns about two elements of this bill, with the first being that rather than having a complainant in the courtroom and cross-examined with all the facts of the court case before them\u2014being the standard practice\u2014with a pre-recording maybe a year before on video being rare and exceptional, this legislation changes that to potentially becoming a matter of course. Now, that has very real implications for the ability of a defendant to effectively cross-examine that complainant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, we recognise the concerns raised by many people about re-traumatising victims of crime through the process, but we also have to recognise that the stakes are incredibly high for the defendant as well, and we also recognise that the whole point of the trial process is to determine whether a crime has been committed or not. We live in a world where not everybody tells the truth, and that is the purpose of our criminal justice system. We are very much concerned about the rights of, particularly, young men to defend themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve heard from the Minister that there are safeguards in the system to ensure that a fair trial will continue, but the widespread advice from many lawyers involved\u2014particularly on the defence side of these cases\u2014is that that is not the case. So we want to be assured that this won\u2019t just happen and be forgotten about but that Parliament will come back in three years\u2019 time, take stock and see what the consequences have been, and make adjustments if necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister, finally, on this very important topic. Will he ensure that that review happens, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00226da7bd560d2747fc889c16dbcde26fb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226da7bd560d2747fc889c16dbcde26fb0\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. In this, the title and commencement phase of debating this legislation, I\u2019ve only really a couple of points to make, other than to add emphasis to those points made by the Hon Paul Goldsmith. Given the genuine concerns raised outside this Parliament but also within its walls, including by way of Supplementary Order Paper, I think that\u2019s a very fair proposal. So I do hope that the Government will take that seriously, including in a legislative programme going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA couple of different points that have a similar theme of timing: I note that the House as a whole is about to pass a piece of legislation that\u2019s got consequential amendments in relation to the Rights for Victims of Insane Offenders Act. That, in fact, was passed at its third reading last night, but may or may not yet have received Royal assent some 13 or 14 hours on. That\u2019s probably more a point of interest for the legal nerds\u2014whether or not, in fact, that is, as we speak now, today, an Act or technically perhaps still a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn any case, relating to the title and commencement of this bill, I would seek the Minister\u2019s assurance on behalf of the Government that if it should be the case that a senior court determined that some of the provisions of this legislation are inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, will the Government legislate to remove such anomalies or errors in the future? So that\u2019s my final question to the Minister on that subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4b95c7f94cf4e2a94872c9e7c8723f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4b95c7f94cf4e2a94872c9e7c8723f2\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just take a very brief call on this, the final committee stage debate, actually to respond to some of the issues that were being raised by the Opposition members, and the point about questioning the Minister about whether there\u2019ll be changes if it doesn\u2019t meet a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vet. This has had two Bill of Rights vets as it\u2019s gone through the process. It\u2019s quite extraordinary to me that somehow that can\u2019t quite land with some members in the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAlso, I do just want to restate for the record at this stage actually what\u2019s in the legislation around the process of pre-record, because we\u2019ve had the suggestion that it will just become the default. So what is in the legislation is that the prosecutor will be responsible for selecting the way that evidence would be given after consultation with the witness. That may be pre-record, that may be behind a screen, or that may be CCTV, depending on what the witness\u2019s preference is and what they deem is most appropriate for the case. That decision will always take into account the benefits and the risks, and there is not an absolute entitlement at all in this legislation. The defence has the right to contest that application, and the judge will consider and can decline on their own motion. There are checks right through in terms of that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt has been well established by our Court of Appeal that pre-recorded cross-examination does not necessarily clash with the defendant\u2019s right to a fair trial, and that\u2019s been shown again and again in overseas jurisdictions where this is the norm. You know, this has been in place in Australia since 1992, and it has been well reviewed in those jurisdictions and found not to have any negative impact and, in fact, some positive impacts on the quality of trial evidence. Also, even when the method has been nominated, and if it\u2019s going to be pre-record, there is the ability to reschedule if the defence or the prosecution does not have their evidence together for that time frame. Then, finally, there\u2019s the ability to recall a witness, which we hope\u2014and in overseas jurisdictions that has been very rare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo I really just wanted to put that on record, because there\u2019s been a lot of discussion as if this is just, you know, carte blanche, pre-record is always going to happen a year in advance. Also with this is that there is now a process of working out the guidance and, I think, from memory, regulations around the process of pre-record, and that will involve the defence lawyers in that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EEverybody in every step of the way in this legislation has been incredibly conscious of the need to protect the right to fair trial. It is at the heart of our justice system. But the problem is at the moment, when we look at our prevalence data of sexual violence and our conviction rate, it shows we have a 1 percent conviction rate, and that is telling us clearly that a large number of victims are not getting a fair trial. Our duty as a country is to hold the integrity of the system for every party, and this legislation is a really important step towards achieving that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b82f2943b163432ca97fc41285b508c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b82f2943b163432ca97fc41285b508c7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to clause 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 105 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EClause 2, as amended, agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e59802ef98714c0c8900d58539930fdf\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d24e3da992fc42d48b0b52914a4e080b\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223f9fb6038f1d4a34a3899ae89798897d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f9fb6038f1d4a34a3899ae89798897d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. The committee has also considered the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e64db9a091e04a8d88f955690bb47011\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e64db9a091e04a8d88f955690bb47011\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I just want to check: are we breaking for kai now, or are we going to have one speech? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b533ecad054b422eb973df7e878cb9a0\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: One speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fbe4cf73ea14c9a9f1cb61c04a74305\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a3ba43b4a9f48ddb6325ea185d98458\u0022\u003EEducation and Training Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd861b9e7b0147b1940be6c1a6543dd5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022299f8aea60194ef1893051a93a2e1887\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022299f8aea60194ef1893051a93a2e1887\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Education: I present a legislative statement on the Education and Training Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d061ea04ace9472997bf29b48dd16c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d061ea04ace9472997bf29b48dd16c1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474959021aa54a0f914321d73dfe98ee\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Education and Training Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Education and Training Act came into force on 1 August last year. That Act replaced the Industry Training and Apprenticeships Act 1992, the Education Act 1964, and the Education Act 1989, so this was an incredibly big undertaking. This bill does not deal with issues of policy but makes technical and non-controversial changes. These types of changes are inevitable after such significant legislative reform. It tidies up areas that were unintentionally amended and clarifies areas of ambiguity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of the main changes made by the bill is to amend the sunsetting provision in the Act. When the education legislation was amalgamated into one Act, there was a great deal of prescriptive legislation around the way early learning centres, schools, and tertiary providers operate. To provide greater flexibility around legislation that may need to be amended more frequently, some provisions were moved into Schedules with the intention that they would be converted into regulations. These Schedules would then be repealed automatically on specified sunset dates, providing time for regulations to be developed in the interim. However, it has become apparent that there are some provisions in the Schedules that are more suitable for primary legislation rather than regulation. For example, Schedule 20 includes some provisions that have an impact on the general right of students to enrol in a State school. This bill amends the sunsetting provisions so that most of the Schedules will remain in the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill also aligns the Act more closely with the provisions of the Children\u2019s Act 2014 to ensure our tamariki are safe while engaging in education. The bill clarifies that education workers who meet the definition of a children\u2019s worker in the Children\u2019s Act must be the subject of a comprehensive safety check before they start working. Only those education workers who are not children\u2019s workers will be the subject of a police vet under the Education and Training Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of other minor and technical changes. It amends section 171 of the Act, which relates to the thresholds for interventions in State schools, so that it replicates the provisions of the 1989 Act. The Act inadvertently changed the thresholds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the physical restraint provisions of the Act to change \u201Cteacher\u201D, or the references to teacher, to references to \u201Cperson holding a teaching position\u201D so that former teachers who are now employed in a non-teaching position are not permitted to use physical restraint under section 99 unless specifically authorised by the school that employs them. This reflects the position under the now repealed Education Act 1989, which was not intended to be changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill extends the transitional provisions in relation to tertiary education providers that prevent them from charging a compulsory student services fee to those who are doing on-job training for a further year, as we continue to work through more permanent arrangements and improve that part of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill clarifies the early childhood education regulation-making power in the Act, and it ensures that regulations can be made to cover applications for ministerial approval to apply for an early childhood education service licence. Requiring approval to apply for an early childhood education licence is a new process provided by the Act, but it has not yet come into force. Regulations will be required to operationalise the process, and those regulations will be in place by 1 August 2022. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill amends section 6 of the Act to specify five education agencies that must give effect to statements of expectations issued jointly by the Ministers of Education and M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti in relation to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. These agencies are the Ministry of Education, the Education Review Office, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, the Tertiary Education Commission, and Education New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill was reported back to the House unamended by the Education and Workforce Committee. I again want to thank the committee\u2019s bipartisan and collaborative approach to the bill. And on that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00226f9b7ca94eb54a02b676ceb318b4a69f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f9b7ca94eb54a02b676ceb318b4a69f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for both the lunch break and the end of yesterday. Therefore this bill is set down for further consideration next sitting day, which starts at 2 p.m. this afternoon. The House is adjourned until then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.56 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20211208ed60005f78ad4d379a08ddf6c34ac7e3000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"