"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002263300dd6d898491b8d7976234d2dad96\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 APRIL 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227040aa0e3f94496fa3fbff81de189c6f\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 APRIL 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000004\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f80a9cf66299423390ec074f478178e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f80a9cf66299423390ec074f478178e8\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Ke tau lotu. \u2018E \u2018Otua M\u0101fimafi, kuo mau taa\u2019i m\u0101lie \u2018i ho\u2019o \u2018of\u00E1 mo e ngaahi t\u0101puaki hono kotoa. \u2018Oku tuku homau lot\u00F3 ka mau h\u016B atu ke malu\u2018i ange mu\u2018a \u2018a e Kuin\u00ED, mo tataki ange \u2018emau fua fatongia \u2018i he Fale Ale\u00E1 \u2018aki \u2018a e poto Faka-e-\u2019Otua, \u2018ofa pea mo e \u2018ulungaanga mal\u016B, ko e \u2018uh\u00ED ko e mo\u2019ui mo e melino \u2018a e fonu\u00E1. \u2018Oku mau kole atu \u2018a e ngaahi me\u2019\u00E1 ni hono kotoa \u2018i he huafa ho \u2018al\u00F3 p\u0113 \u2018e taha ko S\u012Bs\u016B Kalaisi ka ko homau fakamo\u2019u\u00ED, \u2018Emeni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222cccf90046a14aeea0f254157a6d0ae3\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002280d5cf2b769441e9b67542d81d40dae6\u0022\u003ESir Robert McDowall (Robin) Gray\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227806a5104a4f485a80249c6e0cfca45e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227806a5104a4f485a80249c6e0cfca45e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I regret to inform the House of the death on 2 April 2022 of the Hon Sir Robert McDowall (Robin) Gray, who represented the electorate of Clutha from 1978 to 1996. Sir Robin was the Speaker of the House of Representatives from 1990 to 1993. He was also a Minister of State and Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs. I desire, on behalf of this House, to express our sense of the loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect to his memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220261c7a04eb5493fa742e8c6a9830a21\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293fed4a007414b029b527372d5ed45e6\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002227266243f44342219522d601fea25773\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227266243f44342219522d601fea25773\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002215d000726a5f4b55a0fae0e07453a3bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215d000726a5f4b55a0fae0e07453a3bd\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Kathryn McGarvey requesting that the House urge the Government to grant an Entrepreneur Residence Visa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002219c9d651ccc844bcae5a2482d7c11beb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c9d651ccc844bcae5a2482d7c11beb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00222d1c7c665a984c22b95a3b8b609e700a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d1c7c665a984c22b95a3b8b609e700a\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EParliamentary paper on a proposed policy change to the Fair Pay Agreements Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDirection to support a whole-of-Government approach given by the Minister for the Public Service and the Minister of Finance, under section 107 of the Crown Entities Act 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c001c3ca072a4f0a87367835d843c9b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c001c3ca072a4f0a87367835d843c9b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae7c8fa86e14f8ab5e7d752553c4020\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae7c8fa86e14f8ab5e7d752553c4020\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Officers of Parliament Committee on the alterations to the 2021-22 appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the 2022-23 draft budgets for the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsman, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the petitions of James Meharg, Jay Shack, and Piolito Ari\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Regulations Review Committee on the Examination of COVID-19 Orders presented between 8 March and 15 March 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223c111bea7367438280b46c8d51901151\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c111bea7367438280b46c8d51901151\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The reports of the Officers of Parliament and the Regulations Review Committee are set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002254c8ace4153845608b962e7428e1b593\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254c8ace4153845608b962e7428e1b593\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225e31123bfa5f484bbb69683370a24f2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e31123bfa5f484bbb69683370a24f2b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022729bab6f997b43018d973b7eb8226ed3\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d0c3c7c7f1a4e67a886d5840b9f6352\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0d7a654ca9049c9b638e6565b0ad06a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224504230249d1467d9f5d5c80350f3471\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224504230249d1467d9f5d5c80350f3471\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f32b2552c33a48fb9295f5955cc5c08b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f32b2552c33a48fb9295f5955cc5c08b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Crown Accounts, released this morning, continue to reflect the strong position New Zealand finds itself in as we meet the current global economic challenges. For the eight months to the end of February, the Operating Balance before Gains and Losses\u2014the OBEGAL deficit\u2014was $8.3 billion, $4.4 billion below that forecast in December\u2019s Half-year Economic and Fiscal Update. Net core Crown debts stood at 35.2 percent of GDP, $1.9 billion less than had been expected and significantly below the countries with which we compare ourselves. Our strong position gives us the ability to provide meaningful support to low and middle income earners at this time, invest in meeting the long-term opportunities and challenges facing the New Zealand economy, while keeping a careful eye on our overall long-term fiscal position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57672f342224dbfb52e61867883d8e9\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What do the Crown Accounts indicate about the economic prospects for 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a183f59283e424d9ba1f0376a498a8f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Crown Accounts results reflect the strength of the economy and that we have come through COVID not only with one of the best health responses in the world, but one of the strongest economic outcomes globally. We do need to acknowledge, however, that 2022 will be a challenging year for many households and businesses, and we will need to take a cautious approach to support them through this. We are in a strong position to do this. But, as the International Monetary Fund said last week when they congratulated New Zealand for our strong fiscal and economic position, they also warned against tax cuts at this time while the economy is rebuilding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf57cf725e8464490c24aafff61a500\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe612388e644ce28a95d967c8d808bc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The resilience of the jobs market is continuing to support the economy. Last week, Stats New Zealand did report that filled jobs in February had edged down by 0.3 percent, compared with January, but still remaining at record highs of 2.29 million people in work. The SEEK New Zealand Employment Report released today shows a number of job advertisements in March rose 2 percent compared with February, to a record high. On an annual basis, growth was 27 percent. And TradeMe reported today that there was a record 81,984 vacancies listed on its site in the March quarter. They also indicated that wages were rising with the average salary for advertised roles\u2014up 4 percent to $65,799. The strong jobs market shows that the Government\u2019s actions in response to COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic have proven to be the best economic approach. The opening of borders to foreign workers and tourists will also accelerate this recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e99fd6c997940988007e00a5d80a5b8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022efe8a79d6695402981690dbca9fa8961\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efe8a79d6695402981690dbca9fa8961\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227978c4877b004cc7a056bb60fa11e8df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227978c4877b004cc7a056bb60fa11e8df\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including the package that came in on 1 April and will see 1.4 million New Zealanders\u2019 incomes boosted as we confront cost of living challenges. This is in addition to the moves we made last month to reduce fuel excise by 25c a litre for three months, with road-user charge changes coming before the House this week also. We know there is no easy fix to the challenges presented by the COVID recovery supply constraints and the war in Ukraine, but the Government is doing what we can to support Kiwis through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227baae2352e14466590300c07cb41dce3\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that whenever her Government decides to spend more of taxpayers\u2019 hard-earned money, they have a responsibility to actually deliver better outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f00df774f2490a89f575266a1fe87d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course we have a responsibility to do our very best as a Government through trying times to ensure that we are lifting the outcomes, be it across wellbeing outcomes, be it across economic outcomes. This has been our focus the entire time we\u2019ve been in office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fe092b28b5141989736bfe95be242d9\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government managed to spend $1.9 billion more on mental health but after three years has delivered \u201Cno change in access to acute and specialist mental health services\u201D, and is this an acceptable outcome for spending that much taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e7745ca73a4855a969a9d772d90424\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If I track back to the direct ask that was made of Government when we came into office, where there was a crisis across the board on mental health, the very specific focus that came from those who had experience of the system and those who worked in the system was the complete absence of primary mental health care. That was adding to extra pressure on acute needs. That is why we have built a primary mental health system for the first time in New Zealand\u2019s history. It is providing tens of thousands of appointments for New Zealanders who previously had no access to early mental health support. At the same time, we know we need to continue to build the tertiary and acute care. It\u2019s a particular focus of ours on building the workforce, which in some cases takes up to five years to create.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c55c55e322b48519cd6d88b528212b7\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Can she explain how the funds she announced for mental health services for tertiary students have spent $4 million but only delivered 304 counselling sessions, and is $13,000 per session an acceptable outcome for spending taxpayers\u2019 money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a9bf25af2464b20b1aadb8ffa41d606\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Calculating based on the entirety of a programme of care across providers by those early counselling sessions that have been provided is exactly the reason that that member\u2019s party in office did nothing to support tertiary students, to support young people, to create primary mental health care. If that is the way we calculate care in this community for mental health needs, that explains why there was no investment before us. We have provided Piki Ora in conjunction with the Green Party and Mana Ake across primary and intermediate schools across Christchurch, across Kaik\u014Dura, and now into the West Coast, Counties Manukau, and Northland. We\u2019ve provided primary mental health care for New Zealanders across the country. We are now providing rainbow communities with the mental health care that they need through specialist providers, and now we are also providing youth care through increased support through youth helplines and through tertiary education. These services didn\u2019t exist before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4e0f43fca064e6493e39d0dde6b7b61\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why, despite spending an extra $30,000 per prisoner compared to 2018, has there been a steep reduction in the number of prisoners accessing rehabilitation services, and is this an acceptable outcome for spending more taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4535cb8c44949f19963bc98b132615c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, very crude analysis here. If you divide the cost of spending and there are fewer prisoners, then the cost per prisoner goes up. If the member wants to achieve economies of scale in corrections by having more people in prison, that explains why that Government when they were in office started building a mega prison. When we came into office we said that is not the kind of style of corrections service New Zealanders want. There will not be American-style mega prisons on our watch. We will also not invest in rehabilitation programmes that are sometimes eight hours long and call it a success. We\u2019ve invested in programmes that work and that reduce reoffending and\u2014proof is in the pudding\u2014reduce the number of people in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022481d1216594b4d8e91391c009513ded3\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that a 40 percent increase in spending on police that has failed to prevent a more than 40 percent increase in gang membership, or a 21 percent increase in violent crime, is not an acceptable outcome for spending that much more taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ed8a11f6e34d02a69806fc549cadf8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member now seems to be telling his own party that he doesn\u2019t support an increase in police, because that is what we\u2019ve done. We have increased the number of front-line officers, and that means we now have more police officers on the beat than we\u2019ve ever had before. We now have 700 police officers working solely in the organised crime unit\u2014more than we have ever had before. And if the member on that side doesn\u2019t support that growth in police numbers, that\u2019s for him to answer for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb8012df46784a5eb77cdcc628aaf107\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can taxpayers have any confidence that the record $6 billion of their money she is planning to announce in new spending at the Budget will return any sort of value, given her Government\u2019s 4.5-year record of spending more but delivering worse outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406d43be2af84ee09f6ac6604cca7c8a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: A 3.2 percent unemployment rate in the middle of a one-in-100-year economic crisis; some of the lowest debt relative to other countries in the OECD that you will have seen\u2014we have supported New Zealanders through a health and economic crisis that, yes, meant we had to invest, but kept people in work. At the same time, we have overseen a lift in incomes for our lowest-income New Zealanders and a once-in-a-generation increase in welfare. We have nine of the child poverty indicators tracking down\u201460,000 fewer children in poverty than when that member had his party in Government. I could speak at great length about what we have done in office to repair the damage of that time in office by the National Party, so if the member wants to ask more patsies, I would welcome it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c161aace5f6e4c8fb77be18e8519be1b\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha\u2014classic! Why, at a time where the cost of living is soaring, and Kiwi households are making tough decisions about their own spending priorities, does her Government refuse to do the same thing when it comes to spending taxpayers\u2019 hard-earned money? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228429010cb514b1fb9171e8783d5af8a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We do that every single day. The member\u2019s proposal, for instance, is demonstrating where his priorities are; that when it comes to taxpayer\u2019s money he would rather, for instance, spend a billion dollars giving those on $180,000 or more\u2014and those who own investment properties\u2014a tax break, than put it in health or education. That\u2019s his priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c4398c86db24e3c9130781a79506a51\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00225df02c104614435fb6c11ffdffe7db61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df02c104614435fb6c11ffdffe7db61\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How is the Government preparing for the forthcoming flu season?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c21a5c4d57634f38914c8fd3691fc1ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c21a5c4d57634f38914c8fd3691fc1ee\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E On 1 April, we began our annual influenza vaccination season, and I\u2019m pleased to report to the House that, on that day alone, 24,729 people got their flu jab. This year, the Government is ramping up the flu vaccination campaign, with 40 percent more free flu shots available this year as part of the COVID-19 winter plan. This means that, while New Zealand usually uses about 1.4 million flu doses a year, this year the Government is making 2 million doses available while widening eligibility for people to get vaccinated for free. In an ordinary year, flu kills more than 500 New Zealanders, but this is no ordinary year because, for the past two years with the country closed to the rest of the world because of the pandemic, we\u2019ve been largely free of colds and flu, and so this year we must be prepared for a much higher incidence of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d09fdd46e414452a8a04265aaaeee09\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Who will be included in the expanded eligibility for flu vaccines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e067d2c905942f28aed0f7ab156c7bf\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: We routinely make the flu shot available for free for everyone over the age of 65 and for those who are pregnant or at risk of becoming seriously ill because of other underlying conditions. This winter, on clinical advice, we\u2019ve widened eligibility to include M\u0101ori and Pacific people aged 55 and over, because of the high epidemiological risk they face, and this means an extra 39,000 people can have the vaccine for free. It\u2019s also important to remember that, like the COVID-19 vaccine, vaccination against the flu provides indirect protection to those around us as a result of the increase in community immunity. This enables our wh\u0101nau, our workplaces, and our health system all to gain benefits from a wider net of protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0b85dcd21a40caba6864e504be029d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government encouraging uptake this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788199856671446fb3a4c0889a218b83\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Every year, about half the people eligible for free vaccination take it up. But, because of the heightened risk this year, we will be running a public health campaign to remind people to boost their immunity by getting the vaccination. We\u2019re also looking at ways to increase the vaccination workforce to get flu shots to those who need them. Ordinarily, GPs, pharmacists, and community health providers administer the vaccination. However, for COVID, we substantially expanded our vaccinator workforce, and we are now working to introduce a new vaccinating health-worker role to be able to deliver flu vaccines as well. This fits with our Government\u2019s approach of building back better when it comes to our health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b1858e85386437f90590d4639c24871\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he let $3.8 million of flu vaccines expire last year, and will this year\u2019s flu vaccine programme add more millions to his botched management of the immunisation schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68f2638f16a4123b198d28982866926\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That member\u2019s reliability with figures, as we know, is not good, so I\u2019m not going to comment on the figures that he uses except to say that this Government\u2019s track record in protecting New Zealanders against known health risks is actually a darned good one. That\u2019s why we had the COVID vaccination campaign. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve been preparing for some months for this flu season, and we are well prepared for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022071b24eee1db4766868b279b89265480\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00222eaad6ddbbcd46e690d7616935b20f74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eaad6ddbbcd46e690d7616935b20f74\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My question is to the Prime Minister and reads as follows: does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223bda1086dea04994b4510fff294e0d92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bda1086dea04994b4510fff294e0d92\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think the member might want to try reading it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00228e54117092a6460f84c9e31fd4c7c818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e54117092a6460f84c9e31fd4c7c818\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Apologies, Mr Speaker. My question actually reads: does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227893e2a5ec0143abb903a26450e66408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227893e2a5ec0143abb903a26450e66408\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Still yes, in particular our ongoing response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As I said yesterday, the reports of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Russia are beyond reprehensible. Russia must answer to the world for what they\u2019ve done. New Zealand, alongside other Rome Statute States Parties, has already referred the situation to the International Criminal Court, and we continue to support prosecutors in their investigations into all international crimes committed in Ukraine. As a Government, we\u2019re continuing our response against Russia and, last night, issued further sanctions. This was the second run of sanctions since the passing of the Russia Sanctions Act just three weeks ago, and builds on the sense of sanctions we\u2019ve implemented to date, our visa supports, and the humanitarian aid we have provided Ukraine. All New Zealanders have been shaken by what we\u2019ve seen in Ukraine, and as a Government we\u2019re continuing to condemn the actions of Russia and support Ukraine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb81d60e64ef4a8f847b6a87d4f0a3ad\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that the global security situation is changing rapidly and, if so, will she commit to a pathway where New Zealand spends 2 percent of GDP on defence, as Australia has? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224270204875444f4fbec78bed3da98e74\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in answer to the first question, I do absolutely accept that the dynamic has changed considerably. These events only demonstrate the changing strategic environment that New Zealand is operating in. I would say that our response, both at a bilateral level to this conflict, but also the spending decisions that we\u2019ve made on our defence estate\u2014including, for instance, the purchase of P-8s, additional assets for the navy, and so on\u2014demonstrates our ongoing focus on ensuring that we have the capability and the kit that\u2019s required to respond within the Pacific to the changing threats that we face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a57c73b47454e1abddaeea68dbea605\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So will her Government commit to a pathway towards spending 2 percent of GDP on defence or not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229540212719294ea3883a312ac2a4af17\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve committed to ensuring that our Defence Force have the capability that they need to ensure that we are a responsible and responsive player within our region, and we demonstrate that time and time again\u2014whether it\u2019s a response in the Middle East, the fact that we even have people on the ground supporting the response in Europe to what\u2019s occurring now, or our purchases that we\u2019ve made. I\u2019m not going to pre-commit to spending decisions for the Budget at this point in time, but I would ask the Minister to demonstrate where we have not pulled our weight in this international environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e5bda819a843eab611c5f10afedd16\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be possible to increase defence spending, cut taxes, and not cut public services, all at the same time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207621d671da84d71bd4b8b585a271b25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: This does appear to be the proposal from some members in this House, and I think it would be an interesting environment to see, for instance, the member opposite propose that we cut some of the very most basic safety net that we have in the country, while dramatically increasing defence spending. But that is the member\u2019s prerogative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224db7792af4442d7afb2c80465f01156\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that tax revenue is up $17 billion per annum in the last two years alone and, if so, does she stand by her statement that this is not the time to cut taxes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f106a2844594411a8ea3e71947b2a11\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by this Government\u2019s response, which is to put additional support in to make sure that those who are feeling the effects of the cost of living are well supported, as much as we can. So, the changes to, for instance, fuel excise comes at the cost of $350 million; the $270 million that we put into making sure that the family tax credit is increased; and, of course, the additional spending going into lifting superannuitants\u2019 incomes, and acknowledging that our students and others on low incomes are doing it tough\u20141.4 million New Zealanders have benefited from those boosts. We know it doesn\u2019t solve everything, but that\u2019s what we are able to do at this point in time. I would also acknowledge, though, what we\u2019re seeing in the Crown accounts is, yes, that we still are facing deficits, but we have also seen, of course, a change in what we\u2019ve previously forecasted, as a result of more people being in employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e012bbde8a43ca9c7b8583963f6bd9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister say to the dozens of people who have commented on her Facebook page on Friday to say there was nothing in those 1 April changes for middle-class working New Zealanders who aren\u2019t receiving benefits, such as Amy McKenzie, who said \u201CWhat about all the Kiwis paying taxes for this \u2018extra support\u2019? How does this help us help our own families while we\u2019re working hard to try and keep up with the rising costs of living also?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27a7c7f7dc542b4bfa76bf6aa7968c9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the first thing I\u2019d say is that 60 percent of families actually are impacted by the changes that are made to the family tax credit. So that is a large number of New Zealanders as a result of the changes made through Working for Families, which, of course, does go to working families. The second point I\u2019d make is that the response to fuel excise was one way that we can very quickly see a change that, depending on fuel costs\u2014anything from $11 to $17 a week, potentially, for everyone. That was a way that we could quickly respond also. But what I would also say is one of the most important things we can do is make sure incomes\u2014not just, of course, what can be done through tax bracket changes, which often deliver the least to those who need it the most. Rising incomes is what makes a significant difference, and up until now we have seen under this Government incomes outstrip the cost of living, and it is projected to be the case again soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252170ad2063c4201a4a28c62824b1e91\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that with tax revenue having risen $17 billion per annum in just two years, one of the easiest things she could do to help New Zealanders with their after-tax income is let them keep more of their own money by cutting income taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ac0ba20d934a90b6d710339c0ddcaa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member speaks as if we have done nothing, of course, to change, for instance, tax credit regimes that make a significant difference to those on low and middle income families. The member well knows that tax bracket changes\u2014for instance, such as those proposed by the Leader of the Opposition\u2014for those on the lowest incomes delivers something like $2 a week. If you use the more sophisticated system that we\u2019re able to operate in New Zealand on account of our size\u2014use the family tax credit system, for instance\u2014you can deliver a much greater benefit to those family members than just changing tax brackets. That is what we did from the moment we came in, in addition to things like the winter energy payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404fef5aa81545398a95517b6e200d91\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister explain to the New Zealand public how the Government\u2019s policy of fair pay agreements (FPAs) will increase worker productivity, and, if so, why does she think the OECD says the policy would \u201Ccut both labour and multi-factor productivity growth in the covered sectors.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fb9edeac5204c2b9559109b13ecdb96\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, those countries that are often held up as examples of demonstrating better rates of productivity than New Zealand include the likes of Germany and Australia, who operate fair pay agreements. Look, there are often, from time to time, policies where the member and I are just going to fundamentally disagree. On this side of the House, our view is that if we want New Zealanders to be better off, we do that by ensuring, for instance, that they have decent wages and decent conditions, and that is exactly what fair pay agreements are all about now. Now, not every, for instance, employer and every workforce will necessarily see an increase in their wage bills as a result of an FPA. What it\u2019s designed to do is lift those who are operating at the very bottom and who are sometimes driving the sector down to come up to an agreed standard, and some employers support the role that FPAs can provide in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022358e387295ed49ceb16a5f62d2db2ed2\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can she tell New Zealanders how many fewer COVID cases we will have due to her decision to keep the country at red yesterday, and, if so, how does she justify the acute costs of that decision to hospitality operators?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b5ce2ca8b5a4641912b4d1a745fb140\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The changes that we made yesterday were all about ensuring that our hospital system and our healthcare system are able to cope with the number of people that are currently in there as a result of COVID. So that\u2019s not directly aligned to cases, but it can be. Roughly half of our hospitalisations at the moment are in the Auckland region. So whilst cases are coming down, even based on the modelling that we have, we\u2019re still tracking above the peak of what would have been a medium transmission scenario for hospitalisations. We don\u2019t take those decisions lightly. We know they have an impact. But, on the flip side, hospitality will equally be hit if people don\u2019t come out because they don\u2019t have the confidence to be out because case rates are too high and the health system isn\u2019t working. That is the balance that we have to strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e315f0a0bfb24a9799a755a2d8480176\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc5653f1f37a4b5c920487c52a8ff93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc5653f1f37a4b5c920487c52a8ff93c\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent updates has he received on the repair work to the Tair\u0101whiti State highway network following recent weather events in the region? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00220f746fcee74b4fdfa67347f915498d3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f746fcee74b4fdfa67347f915498d3d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E On Saturday, I visited Tai R\u0101whiti with my colleague the Hon Meka Whaitiri to see firsthand the progress made in cleaning up after devastating flooding last week in the region. We recognise how much the people who live in our regional and remote Tai R\u0101whiti communities rely on the access that State Highway 35 provides for essential supplies and services. It was, therefore, a real privilege to be able to attend the blessing for the Mangahauini Bridge at Tokomaru Bay as it opened for traffic days ahead of schedule. I\u2019d like to say a special thanks to the main contractor, Downer\u2019s, and the amazing local contractors, Blackbee Contractors, who have been working day and night in trying conditions to help get these communities moving again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c10e9a22ce441dbe0071e8a816439a\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: How have the community chipped in to assist the clean-up efforts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6957fd04b2c4724a829b37fedd61df9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: There were nearly 120 people involved in the repair and clean-up work on Tai R\u0101whiti\u2019s State highways, ranging from traffic management and arborists to those operating excavators, graders, and diggers, from inside and outside the Tai R\u0101whiti region, and much of that work goes on. In particular, crews have worked tirelessly to install well in excess of 4,000 tonnes of rock to form the base for the new Mangahauini Bridge support and allow for the bridge approach to be reinstated. This is a real testament to the value of local procurement and the importance of the community places on essential transport links. I can also shout out to the aunties who put on an awesome feed at the Tokomaru Bay hall and the excellent p\u0101ua pies that were provided to everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa2060217de245b7b44db32c21df4a3e\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for Tai R\u0101whiti\u2019s response to the storm? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16cfccdca2e4f75a62df40f3748a48e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Contractors will continue work to futureproof the bridge, which will be sealed this Thursday. Works will continue around the edges of the bridge and in the river to futureproof it. State Highway 35 does for the time being remain closed north of Tokomaru Bay through to Te Puia Springs. This section has seen significant damage to the road, which I reviewed, including major cracks and uneven surfaces, slumping, and two major drop-outs. Access is expected to be restored later this week, with restrictions such as daytime opening only and a number of traffic management controls along the route. Once remedial works are done and the winter season has completed, we\u2019ll also be proceeding with long-awaited Provincial Growth Fund - funded works to improve the resilience and safety of State Highway 35. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7c7450fe2c04a298c34e40b4410e9fc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022476a77dff68e43918d4dfb994c9a5dd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022476a77dff68e43918d4dfb994c9a5dd3\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he concerned by the findings of the latest ANZ consumer confidence survey, which shows consumers are significantly less confident than in Australia and a record number of people are expecting to be worse off this time next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad8fbd4bcb44499aabe61f68654fc3de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad8fbd4bcb44499aabe61f68654fc3de\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The findings of the latest ANZ consumer confidence survey reflect the uncertain and challenging environment that New Zealanders are facing in 2022. Like all New Zealanders, I am concerned about the impact of nearly 2\u00BD years of the global COVID-19 pandemic, resulting supply chain blockages, and Russia\u2019s illegal invasion of Ukraine. We are, however, in a strong position to be able to support New Zealand businesses and households through this time, just as we protected them through COVID-19. It\u2019s why we boosted the incomes of low and middle income families from 1 April instead of giving thousands of dollars to the wealthiest New Zealanders. It\u2019s why we cut the fuel excise by 25c to help New Zealanders facing pain at the petrol pump. When we see strong Crown accounts and small to medium sized enterprise (SME) surveys like the Xero Small Business Index, which today showed small business growth over the start of the year, with wage growth and job growth, and stronger SME activity than in Australia or the UK, it indicates that as a country we can deal with the uncertainty and support New Zealanders to get through the Omicron peak and this global inflation spike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8fc7c34fc2b44698fb90e89fdeb9525\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he keep blaming international events for New Zealand\u2019s economic situation when Australia, affected by the very same events, is experiencing lower inflation than New Zealand, higher consumer confidence, and higher growth forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228492823839f54bb0a48fd78d8706c918\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Right around the world, countries are experiencing the impact of the global COVID-19 pandemic. We are at different stages of that pandemic. The survey the member refers to in her primary question comes at a time when New Zealanders are experiencing the worst of COVID-19. Through the actions of the Government and the hard work of New Zealanders, up to this point we have been able to withstand that and we will continue to do so. I would bear in mind that organisations such as the IMF have as recently as last week congratulated New Zealand not just on our health response but also our economic response as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228871d4e5c991466d9127e9a0e9f290e9\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that New Zealanders\u2019 consumer confidence is now lower than even during the depths of the global financial crisis, and will he acknowledge that a growing number of households feel they are going backwards on his Government\u2019s watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79601163eef46b590cf9be1c307696d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my answer to the primary question, this is an extremely challenging time for many New Zealand businesses and households. We supported those businesses and households to get through COVID-19, and we are continuing to do so. On this side of the House, we know the importance of investing long term in things like transport and in housing, and making sure we have a good health and education system is required alongside making sure we provide those individual supports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05620eed7934ffdb00cc6a0d3bd9907\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to Katie, who responded to the Prime Minister\u2019s Facebook post about the Government\u2019s 1 April changes to benefits and entitlements, saying, \u201CWhat about the middle income earners. We both have full-time jobs. There is no relief because we aren\u2019t on benefits, but still get stung by the increases everywhere.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af7721cb0b644fabcaa1406769d27b4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I express sympathy for that person, but, then, I would refer that person to meet up with Becks, who wrote to the Prime Minister to say, \u201CThanks so much for all you and your Government has done. The COVID assistance has kept me in business without a doubt, and I\u2019ve been around long enough to appreciate that National would\u2019ve turned a blind eye to the likes of my little business.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226433862ce294fb2b5ec83dc0f99b240\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned about the economic situation confronting Sarah, who also responded\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229448927e749c43a59c126fb69614ba32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member can have two extra supplementaries for that outburst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216242adc81ee4071956606783b6171c6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Is he concerned about the economic situation confronting Sarah, who also responded to the Prime Minister\u2019s Facebook post, saying, \u201CWhat about the middle classes who earn slightly too much to get in-work tax credits yet not enough to keep up with the ever increasing cost of living.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280dbd96674f5433d8b67f7c65e61a507\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say to that person and to all New Zealanders is that we appreciate the challenges that are in front of them, and that\u2019s the reason why packages like the 1 April package came through. It\u2019s the reason why we supported New Zealanders with $23 billion worth of financial support through the COVID-19 pandemic. But I would also invite that person to perhaps be able to talk to Martina, who wrote to the Prime Minister to say, \u201CI personally wanted to say thank you for always having the heart of New Zealand in the support you and your Government give us. Watching you and the team yesterday\u201D\u2014this is last week\u2014\u201Cas you gave details of the petrol reductions was uplifting. This is a Government that has tried to act quickly and alleviate the pressure and stresses for families and businesses across the country. Your heart shines through the key messages you give. I\u2019m not simply saying thank you for yesterday but\u2014\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e284e5f01a2c4c6c9e16b81e478afff2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c54ff55b1a324303a72396e573b672be\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he improve New Zealanders\u2019 financial prospects by delivering them income tax relief when the Crown accounts today show that thanks in part to inflation, the Government is raking in more income tax than forecast, up $12.5 billion since Labour came to office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252c1b69bd4704fb89e9d9f4c54567370\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would note that those accounts show is that revenue is coming in to the Government as a result of the fact that companies are making bigger profits, and more people are in work and they\u2019re earning more. On this side of the House, we don\u2019t think giving tax cuts to people who earn more than $180,000 is the right response in the environment we have, and neither does the IMF, so I think, for that member\u2019s benefit, on this side of the House we will continue to support New Zealanders, we will continue to target where we put it, and we will be careful with the Government\u2019s books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260cdef9cec544fe5b2b6376fea545031\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that record low consumer confidence indicates, as ANZ states, \u201Ca broad consensus that it\u2019s time to close the wallet\u201D, and why is it that the Minister is planning a record $6 billion operating allowance in the upcoming Budget but will not prioritise tax relief for struggling New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4aac81ab514ecd8d1c4f7e8c41142c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a surprising question from the member given that she appears to be joining me in the view that we need a $6 billion operating allowance, because she actually told the New Zealand Herald today that she\u2019s going to spend the same amount of money as this Government is, except that she\u2019s going to prioritise untargeted tax cuts for the most wealthy New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e83129200f4b42b7f54a859877e1d6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the vast majority of New Zealanders think that right now is a \u201Cterrible time\u201D to buy a major household item, and does he not accept that this is an ominous sign for the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c19393183e4106b2fdb8fc93e509b8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think many New Zealanders will be experiencing the impacts of global supply chain disruption, which would particularly affect the purchase of those sorts of items. What I think New Zealanders also understand is the importance of taking a long-term view where we do invest in health, we do invest in education, we do invest in housing, we do invest in transport and balance that with keeping an eye on the books and looking after the people who need it the most, not giving tax cuts to people who earn more than $180,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d74b1afc67ae4ea9b0d798761234811d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecccfc8b1ffd4440bfa8bb5b03505907\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecccfc8b1ffd4440bfa8bb5b03505907\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: Has the Department of Conservation identified how many koror\u0101/little blue penguin live in the rock wall at P\u016Btiki Bay; if so, how many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00220f9990785ebf4abf8230692a0820b561\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f9990785ebf4abf8230692a0820b561\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E The Department of Conservation (DOC) has advised me that there are currently no burrows with any sign of koror\u0101 in the rock wall at P\u016Btiki Bay. I\u2019m advised by the department that surveys undertaken in 2021 identified four burrows along the rock wall that did have signs of koror\u0101, but that none of these are being actively used by koror\u0101 at present. However, I do want to thank the member for raising this issue, as the situation at P\u016Btiki Bay has highlighted some of the issues that are very live and playing out, that occur when decisions are made under the Wildlife Act 1953, which is why I\u2019ve decided to announce a first principles review of the Act back in December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212dd6bd6db6d4c8a9d5477dc87f725da\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister confident that no koror\u0101 will come to harm as a result of the permit DOC has granted developers to move koror\u0101 while removing the rock wall; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253dc3fd313804a0c980d390977141e02\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you to that member. These questions, of course, are really relevant because I know that many people have been very concerned about the wellbeing and welfare of the koror\u0101. As the member will be aware, the decision to grant the permit was that of the Auckland Council, which has been granted to the development agency. The decision to grant the permit under the Wildlife Act, though, provided the authority to capture, handle, and relocate koror\u0101 as a consequence of the position that they found themselves\u2014the options that were put to them under the Wildlife Act: either (a) decline the consent, and, therefore, you are at the behest of those works going ahead, and you can\u2019t really do anything other than let the works go ahead and they can\u2019t ensure the protection of the koror\u0101; or grant the consent. By granting the consent and enabling those koror\u0101 to be moved, the Department of Conservation made the determination based on the advice provided to them that this would be the way to ensure the safety of those koror\u0101. But the question remains that we are still at this really\u2014it\u2019s an unsatisfactory decision-making process that the Wildlife Act confers upon decision makers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69b299c45194915998cbee0a5dc946d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Karen Saunders of Waiheke\u2019s Native Bird Rescue that it is \u201Cbeyond horrific in this day and age to be destroying habitat for the sake of pleasure boats that are contributing to the climate emergency.\u201D; if she does, why did the department grant the permit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6aa58e3bd6f4e04aa98b4b93c90cb21\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will be aware, the consents for the overarching marina development, those are granted by the Auckland Council, and I, as the Minister of Conservation, don\u2019t have any discretion with that respect. So the issue that was before me as a decision maker is very, very narrow around what we can do in terms of moving and relocating the koror\u0101 now that the permit for the development has been agreed to. So with respect to the broader comments of the member, look, I understand that there are many views about the impacts of the marina development but I don\u2019t have any ministerial responsibility for the broader implications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5663877c1942afb0aaf72babccff4d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Did the decision under the Wildlife Act to grant the permit take into account\u2014quoting penguin expert Dr John Cockrem of Massey University\u2014that \u201CThe expectation is that the birds will come back to their home and if their home is gone, they will go into the rocks closest to where they have been, but their home will be destroyed.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ea63156c6b4791a6331d16c6a732c4\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Department of Conversation, I\u2019m advised, engaged with Dr Cockrem, as well as a number of other ecologists who presented different views. My understanding is that the advice was that the safest option was to grant the consent to enable the relocation. Further, the ecologists that they turned to said that the penguins, or the koror\u0101, would most likely return back to the environment, albeit in its altered state. So that was the information that they have relied on to grant the consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a01a4528bfd647059727c79b58b3800e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that it is acceptable that commercial developments are prioritised ahead of the protection of threatened species such as koror\u0101; if so, will her reform of the Wildlife Act rectify this issue and put native species first?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c58ae4297614e02932838399d063354\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: As I think I\u2019ve addressed, I think that there are multiple issues here at play. I think some of these issues will be for consideration under the broader Resource Management Act reforms. I think some of them fall within the very narrow scope of what can be done to protect wildlife under the Wildlife Act, which, as the Waitangi Tribunal found, is completely out of date, which, as many conservationists have found, is completely out of date, which, as we understand, just is not appropriate and fit for purpose in our current day and age. I expect that we will hear many submissions around the way that we can best ensure that the Wildlife Act is fit for purpose. Moving forward, that takes into consideration all of the impacts of development, which are currently creating adverse outcomes as a consequence of a lack of discretion for decision makers to be able to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259b2f8ca60834be3aa4afeb098f5d487\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u002274e0247a84f84da4bdfc3d460aa7f0fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274e0247a84f84da4bdfc3d460aa7f0fa\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What recent announcements has she made regarding Jobs for Nature funding for the restoration of the Whanganui River?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7627c8ff41c44aebd89728e353bdd6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7627c8ff41c44aebd89728e353bdd6e\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Last month, I announced that $7.8 million in Jobs for Nature funding would be provided to Te Awa Tupua o Whanganui, a project led by Ng\u0101 T\u0101ngata Tiaki. The project will employ at least 66 people over four years, and work will focus on mitigating soil erosion, improving freshwater quality, and enhancing the biodiversity values of the river. It is incredibly valuable work not only for the impact it will have on the everyday lives of the people that are undertaking that work, but for the enduring impact it will have on the river and its communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251606fe47597409ab94718afde0b0087\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What will this investment mean for the health of the river?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a90c316c64b49f981b1a9df4ac5273b\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: The project will deliver a range of conservation outcomes, including 290 kilometres of riparian fencing, the planting of more than 600,000 native trees to protect the health of the river, and possible development of wetlands. There will also be freshwater fish habitat restoration, pest and weed control, as well as the establishment of multiple native nurseries to develop the plants and seedlings for the ongoing project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282413c8a00f24895a7da5dc09a99d771\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What co-governance arrangements have been put in place for the river, and how does this project interact with them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713f2736d49c4ecdb990c67375d2a0b7\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a good question. In 2017, the National Government recognised the Whanganui River, in law, as a \u201Cliving and indivisible whole\u201D Te Awa Tupua through the Te Awa Tupua (Whanganui River Claims Settlement) Act. The Act established co-governance arrangements including Te Pou Tupua, the human face that represents the river comprising Crown and iwi nominees; and Te K\u014Dpuka, a permanent joint committee under the Local Government Act acting as a strategy group for the river, with delegated planning powers comprised of members including iwi appointees. The Department of Conservation is supporting Te K\u014Dpuka to develop Te Heke Ngahuru, the strategy for Te Awa Tupua, and the Mouri T\u016Broa project, which will support this kaupapa through the focus of the restoration of the awa and the reclamation of tikanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228030eee76046452e8ae35a1abe0d254b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022401ef821f6c04514a5cf18831367f5d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022401ef821f6c04514a5cf18831367f5d6\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does he agree that flexible labour markets are one of the foundations of New Zealand\u2019s economic progress in the past three decades?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8361e6c482b411f85c67cc3b56ca14a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8361e6c482b411f85c67cc3b56ca14a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Well-balanced flexibility in the labour market can support economic and social progress. For example, the flexibility provided to employees to manage their health through 10 days of sick leave has provided many benefits. I note that the member and his party voted against that. While New Zealand\u2019s economy has made good progress in a number of respects, including 3.2 percent unemployment under this Government, there are also real weaknesses in our labour market that hold us back. A longstanding mismatch between wage growth and productivity is not economic progress. Suppressed wages and inflexible working conditions is not economic progress. Working two or three jobs just to put food on the table at night is not economic progress. On this side of the House, economic progress is a high wage, high productivity economy that delivers for workers and businesses alike. That\u2019s what we\u2019re committed to delivering, and on that note we very much look forward to the first reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230b8548cb4684f7789c50bc093ff8860\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, does he believe in flexible labour markets or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e962fd9b7674acb8d3b4be3cc7587ba\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As I just described, we do believe that well-balanced labour markets that have appropriate flexibility for employers and employees are important. What I do note is the very strong international evidence that labour markets that have a mix of individual bargaining, collective bargaining, and sector-based bargaining are the labour markets that function the most effectively, the most equitably, and which have the highest rates of labour productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b47a9f98834231a7c3b412b6d742f3\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the proposition that the fair pay agreements regime he is introducing today is less about fair pay and more about imposing mandatory union deals on Kiwi workplaces? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985dfc0b327b4b7aaebad241b9a177dd\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t accept that characterisation at all. I do accept the characterisation that I\u2019ve heard from some major employers who point out to me that at the moment, they are held back from offering better terms and conditions for their workers that they would wish to because of the race to the bottom nature of our existing labour market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022307abfaac1f245abac4190d219c5d5c5\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he care about BusinessNZ\u2019s view that \u201CFair pay agreements couldn\u2019t come at a worse time than now as businesses face mounting pressure from runaway inflation, labour shortages, fast rising costs, supply chain issues and the Omicron response\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285b44f99b00b4f75b3e6a1e13a04c5ab\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: In response to those comments, I would note two things. The first is that the passage of fair pay agreements will see fair pay agreements not coming into effect until next year at the earliest. The second point that I would note is that there is, in fact, a no more apposite time for us to be considering this issue, given that some of the very people who have helped our country through the global pandemic\u2014the likes of cleaners, who have kept our workplaces, our schools, and our hospitals safe and hygienic; our retail workers, who have kept us stocked with food and other goods\u2014have been the people that have helped us to get through but are very often the people who have been left out in the cold of the labour market conditions that we currently have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2bf780821b145e7ba1c9a04ae1232f6\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still think that the Government can add to the cost structure for small and large businesses with no consequences either for their international competitiveness or the cost of living, and if so, can he please explain how this works?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c5aa282a2046d0bd74047f346eaf93\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As we have canvassed in this House previously on this topic, the member and I have a very different view about these matters. The member seems to think that there is a straight out trade-off between fair and decent pay and conditions for workers on one hand and good economic outcomes on the other hand. On this side of the House, we actually believe in a better and more progressive vision of labour relations, one in which investment in workers, investment in skills and training, and valuing people can actually build value and productivity in the long run. That is why, for example, Australia, which has had a form of sector-based bargaining in place for most of the past 40 years, has a higher rate of labour productivity than New Zealand, with its largely individualised-based bargaining system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264298e9a1eaa48c1aa937ad0db54d5b5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u00221a401e16ece247f7bd11bba343b53e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a401e16ece247f7bd11bba343b53e5e\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities: What recent announcement has she made about supporting former refugees, recent migrants, and ethnic communities into employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00224240bf4170454e858ff03eba4f92e671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224240bf4170454e858ff03eba4f92e671\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Along with Minister Sepuloni, we launched the Government\u2019s Employment Action Plan for former refugees, recent migrants, and ethnic communities. Across Government, we\u2019re committing to 22 actions to improve employment outcomes for these groups. The action plan was informed by extensive consultation with these communities, and brings together current and planned programmes of work across Government to provide better support for these groups to develop skills, gain work experience, and move into more sustainable and rewarding work, while also supporting employers to create more inclusive workplaces. It also builds on the ongoing work of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, Michael Wood, to end migrant worker exploitation, forced labour, and human trafficking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184918348d7d4cdcae0a51f4dc6e11c7\u0022\u003EIbrahim Omer\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this announcement important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221349c6100aa1489cbfc67629ba164c90\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Our ethnic communities are a vital part of Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s social fabric and economy, and make up nearly 20 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total population. But despite record-low unemployment, and although there are of course many who make a significant contribution to New Zealand\u2019s economy, there are still too many people from our ethnic communities who continue to face systemic barriers that prevent them from accessing and progressing in the labour market. Many have spoken to me about being highly qualified for the jobs that they\u2019re applying for, but not being hired. Many people report discrimination in both internal and external recruitment processes that also impact career progression, and others face pay disparities. This action plan will help us tackle one of the biggest issues for our ethnic communities, and takes significant steps towards ensuring the skills and experiences of these communities are recognised, respected, and valued. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9a8efc3b7bc4a4d835b4c7443a184a7\u0022\u003EIbrahim Omer\u003C/span\u003E: How will the plan improve outcomes for these communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e8acbe452a42cfa7ec4f6d7e1ebfd0\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: The action plan is one of seven population-specific Employment Action Plans that support this Government\u2019s wider employment strategy. Not only does it support these communities in preparing them for and connecting them with work, we\u2019re working with employers in industry to increase employment opportunities for people from ethnic communities, and to promote diverse and more inclusive workplaces. I want to acknowledge the fact that there have been various community groups and entities, like Diversity Works and the Auckland Business Chamber, who\u2019ve been working towards better employment outcomes for ethnic communities, and also themselves supporting more inclusive workspaces. I look forward to working alongside them. It is critical that we unlock\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd422582ca243b8b6169da74167df65\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s answer is now too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212ad53d483fa443eb932dd50a96445e6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2352ef3e6ef4a968e3e843064e0fe60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2352ef3e6ef4a968e3e843064e0fe60\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she concerned by a recent report that shows New Zealand Police kill people at 11 times the rate of police in England and Wales, with the Police\u2019s use of force disproportionately directed at M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7c67a8acf7a46a6ba3318386e62f648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7c67a8acf7a46a6ba3318386e62f648\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I am concerned about the use of firearms in our communities and that is why we are reforming our firearms law. Policing is an inherently dangerous job and front-line staff put themselves in harm\u2019s way every day to protect the public. The use of lethal force by our police is an absolute last resort, and no police officer ever wants to pull the trigger. I am committed to ensuring Police has the tools available to safely defuse situations without the use of lethal force. It\u2019s worth noting that New Zealand has a much higher rate of gun ownership than the UK, and that the UK has already undertaken comprehensive firearms reforms to make their community safer, which we are currently in the process of doing. The statistics are really clear that our M\u0101ori and Pacific communities are disproportionately represented, and that is why police are working with Kim Workman on addressing the bias that exists in the police operating environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a296480ca459403786af9482299b5b0e\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned by the fact that many of the people killed by police were not in possession of a firearm and had mental health issues which were likely known to police? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411f71b4f6954b9c82b1baccd6d4e44b\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: That is not my understanding; it\u2019s my understanding that the vast majority of those who are shot by police are armed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe474b3d99a45a5852ef2b9b82483f2\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: What action, if any, has the Police taken to establish a national programme for monitoring and mentoring of the armed offenders squad (AOS), which was recommended by the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) seven years ago after junior squad officers were deployed without the full qualifications and training required for the AOS? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b252375afd08474081f10d9b30b6f081\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that the national training programme for the AOS is already in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226832ff9ec4404c068aa45dd441ef0187\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it\u2019s acceptable that M\u0101ori are seven times more likely than P\u0101keh\u0101 to be on the receiving end of police use of force, including pepper spray, taser, and firearms, and does she think this is reflective of the low training requirements of New Zealand Police, which are behind Germany, Australia, and even the US? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8652a2e090a4143b62962dcba1e3ed5\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not acceptable. That is why the Police have developed Te Huringa o Te Tai strategy, which has been developed in partnership with iwi M\u0101ori to address concerns and to reduce victimisation, offending, and injuries among police. It\u2019s also why it\u2019s important that our police represent the communities that they serve. It\u2019s something that I\u2019m committed to as Minister of Police, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s been the focus of our 1,800 growth initiative with M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and Asian recruits making up 37 percent of all new recruits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105020d28a7245bcb7336125b1b44966\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that the IPCA reports into police shootings indicate a pattern of escalation by the armed offenders squad and that the head of the IPCA said, of the shootings, that police continue to \u201Cput themselves in a position where firearms use is the only option\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857e80eeb346436fafb070817bd13776\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am concerned, and that is why I support the police in their efforts to ensure that they review their training and that they put in place the measures that they need to, to make sure that the AOS are sufficiently trained\u2014and just for that member\u2019s information, they do receive a minimum of 20 days\u2019 training each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022828e3fac52b04900baa1d79f5d018e6e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00223d4534720e9c454d8ba58920595e8b96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d4534720e9c454d8ba58920595e8b96\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CI reject the premise that gang tensions have increased under this Government\u2019s watch\u201D; if so, how does she reconcile that statement with the over 40 percent increase in gang membership since 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbba3adb2aee47eba392fb260bb8daf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbba3adb2aee47eba392fb260bb8daf4\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by the full context of all my answers at question time last Wednesday, including my statement that there is no doubt that violence and gang tensions are a feature of our community and we have to do everything we can to ensure that we deal with that. That\u2019s why we are deploying the largest ever number of organised crime staff by funding 700 additional specialist staff, introducing firearms prohibition orders legislation, and why we\u2019ve rolled out tactical response teams across the country. In answer to the second part of the question, the National Gang List is an intelligence tool used by police, and while the number of gang members on the list has dropped by around 500 since August last year, it remains an unreliable tool for measuring gang membership. As such, we will continue our work to target gangs. We know there is always more to do, and we are working hard to address the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777ce2733c584428b77a57078d93938d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to Auckland resident Helen White commenting in the New Zealand Herald on Friday, that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96c661d36b54d5eb65d3923c9ffdccf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, members got extra questions as a result of similar laughter. Do we want the reverse to be applied here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240a682a6faa747528cc07862205842ac\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc4fa1fc766246bb93163895131d981e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No? Well, just be quiet then. Mark Mitchell, start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888f9a410cee4d8cabcee53b8a36d181\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What is her response to Auckland resident Helen White, commenting in the New Zealand Herald on Friday, that \u201COnce we had a city full of international students and tourists. Now we are faced with an increase in gang activity in the city\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c982b63a79f4ae8b10c63de1c43e338\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: My response to that is that, as a Government, we have to ensure that we have adequate police and that they are resourced well. Can I just confirm for that member that in Auckland alone, due to the fact that we are building a police force up by 1,800, we have increased the number by 360.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c817423cc0f242059dd023ba32ba3193\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Was Helen White wrong to claim gang activity and crime has increased in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d01f48abf6cb41c3b3e29c9c5546582d\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm, and what Ms White and I both agree on, is the support that this Government has given to police to ensure that we deal with gang activity appropriately by ensuring there are 700 police focused on organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269956cf1e57d436cad327b63ada23751\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister didn\u2019t come anywhere close to actually addressing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268866e15a06c432f85c49db5b29e529f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think she came close enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f87a10bcce99431389e0fff3fba82ee7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister provide her definition of gang tensions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8846a039044ceebbc2746db73205e2\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that this Government has supported the police by lifting the numbers by 1,200 so far; we\u2019re well on our way to the 1,800 target. We\u2019ve increased the budget by $450 million, we are ensuring that 700 police are dedicated to organised crime activity, and in Auckland alone\u2014due to the increased numbers\u2014they have 360 more cops on the beat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06cc1951f1944ee9c65c8ce6d18bb09\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, the Minister has stood in this House and told this House that there has not been an increase in gang tensions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c80ceb282a54b14a694e66b677f8fe9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221078ce81280546998cf810f8295c8053\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: And my point of order is that she has come nowhere close, again, to addressing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f6220d0f3ed43ab94a8e9ce21e60d33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I might have had some sympathy for the member if the answer wasn\u2019t being shouted down by Mr Doocey and others. If I could hear all of the answer, I might have ruled in the member\u2019s favour, but I couldn\u2019t. It might have been in there somewhere\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014and you can talk to Mr Doocey about his noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039a954980c1468992b8bfbe47ed6cde\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could the Minister please provide her definition of gang tensions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bdebfdede3a46ad96a49b901f182cf9\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a tension between gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c42dfd3d0f44ccd9b61b60d542cc824\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Has gang violence increased or decreased under her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8709d627f948c092780e41a0a2fbb2\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: If I can point to the National Gang List that the National Party seems to rely on, which has had a drop of 500 since August last year, and if I can also point to the fact that we are now charging gang activity at 92 percent, a much higher rate than has ever been before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb8817cc1a44a7c87bab87c4cbe1e78\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the claim made last week that increased gang activity, or increased gang tension, is a result of the deportation of 501s from Australia, as claimed on breakfast television last week by the Leader of the Opposition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283c2da7ba5ca47b3911fc869451641e0\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can agree with is that the 501s have added an element which is very troubling into our gang environment, and it did start under the National Government. Their response was to write a gang action plan in 2016 which they did not implement. In fact, the gang action plan was implemented by our Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002245206c4ffa13469eaa1a8f4dc76a7cc5\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df55e1a2507e4904a813f8e65e25ee2f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef38fe0ab164c34b003e18e91b49072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef38fe0ab164c34b003e18e91b49072\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022953e0611cf68465fa5a579cb294dbc99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097fad94bff841138a4ae2e271aac3b4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fair Pay Agreements Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis one\u2019s for Mele and Malia and all the other cleaners who keep our offices, our schools, and our hospitals clean and hygienic. It\u2019s for Jason and Wa\u2019el and the security guards across New Zealand who work day and night to keep people and property safe. It\u2019s for Connor and Muwela, and all of their colleagues across retail who have kept us all supplied with food and goods during the COVID-19 pandemic. It\u2019s for Morris and the thousands of bus drivers who keep our cities and our towns moving. It\u2019s also for the major employer who told me last week how proud he is of his cleaning workforce, and how much he wants to end the race to the bottom so that his team can have fair pay and conditions and his sector can have a sustainable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe global pandemic has reminded us of the value of much of the work done in our communities that has been undervalued for too long. We\u2019ve gotten through COVID together, and as we build back better, it is time to deal with some of the longstanding inequalities that have been exposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFor 30 years, the critical work and contribution of Kiwis performing some of the most essential work in our country has been systematically undervalued. I ask this House why the cleaners who keep us in this Chamber healthy and safe should not have wages that allow them to live in dignity and their wh\u0101nau to have security. I ask this House why the bus drivers who serve our communities up and down New Zealand should not have hours of work that enable them to participate fully in family and community life. I ask this House why aged care should not be a sector that attracts skilled and caring Kiwis through decent, sustainable pay and conditions. The answer is that for 30 years, our employment relations system has embedded low pay and conditions in a race to the bottom in many of these sectors. This isn\u2019t necessarily about employers deliberately doing the wrong thing; it\u2019s the inevitable consequence of a system that has incentivised competition based on low labour costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAlmost exactly 31 years ago in this Chamber\u2014and it\u2019s here in the Hansard from 1991\u2014we were told in the debate on the Employment Contracts Act that a highly deregulated market and the end of sector-based bargaining would improve New Zealand\u2019s labour productivity. It did not. We were told that the wealth would trickle down. It did not. We were told that workers would not see their living standards reduced, but for many of them, they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements (FPAs) are about creating a new, modern, sector-based bargaining system that supports fair, safe, and productive workplaces. The model is built on international evidence described by the OECD Directorate for Employment, Labour and Social Affairs as the positive benefits that a level of sector-based bargaining can have in labour markets, but, most importantly, the FPA Bill is a uniquely New Zealand solution to the race to the bottom problems that I have described. The model was initially developed by a tripartite working group chaired by the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, whose careful and balanced work on this issue I acknowledge today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFPAs will enable good-faith bargaining to occur at the sector or occupational level, and will establish a minimum floor for conditions in that area. In the same way that the Government establishes a minimum floor like the minimum wage or statutory sick leave, employers and unions will be able to negotiate and agree a bespoke minimum floor relevant to the issues in their sector. By establishing a floor underneath pay and conditions, competition based on low labour costs will be disincentivised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOur 30-year experiment with a low - labour-cost model has not worked. Many workers have suffered, but, equally, our rates of labour productivity have been amongst the worst in the world under that regime: lower than the OECD average, and lower than many countries that have a level of sector-based coordination for worker terms and conditions. A model based on wage-based competition is focused on the wrong things. FPAs will incentivise competition based on the right things. The quality of goods and services offered, investment in skills and training, R \u0026amp; D innovation\u2014these are the things that will drive productivity and prosperity for our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EInherent in this bill, we recognise that wealth creation is a shared endeavour. It takes the contribution of both those who provide capital and those who provide labour. Why shouldn\u2019t there be negotiation, compromise, and shared vision for how a sector progresses and how the fruits of growth are shared, given that both parties have that stake? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe bill before the House provides a carefully worked through framework for how the FPA system will function. Some of the key design details include provisions for the initiation and bargaining of fair pay agreements. There will be two pathways for a union to initiate bargaining for an FPA: a representation test based on employee numbers, or a public interest test. Employees will be represented by unions and employers will largely be represented by employer associations. The process will be guided by the good-faith obligations that are well-known and established in the existing Employment Relations Act (ERA). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOnce an FPA has been negotiated, it will need to be ratified by both employees and employers. This ensures that there will be support from both the industry or occupation for the new minimum terms of the FPA, and there will be a particular weighting for small businesses in that ratification process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere will be certain topics which have to be negotiated as mandatory terms in FPAs, including base wage rates, ordinary hours, and penalty rates. Other topics such as flexible working conditions, redundancy, and health and safety will need to be discussed, but will not necessarily have to be agreed as part of a final FPA. FPAs will be longer-term agreements of between three and five years that provide parties with a platform for dealing with the long-term issues in their sector. The bill also provides for a dispute resolution system built off ERA provisions with access to mediation and, where necessary, determination so that fair pay agreement negotiations do come to a conclusion and provide certainty for all parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that this is a significant reform of our workplace relations system. Some will have questions and concerns, and I will continue to engage on reasonable issues that are raised. I know that the select committee will also work hard to hear submissions, and I have every expectation that they will recommend improvements to the bill at the next stage. Vigorous debate is good, and different views are to be expected on an issue like this, but I strongly urge debate based on the substance of the bill and debate focused on the labour market failures that we are trying to fix. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESector-based bargaining is not an extreme approach to these issues. It is common around the world, including in our nearest neighbour. Australia has had a sector-based bargaining system in place for over 40 years, contributing to higher wages and an economy where average annual labour productivity growth has been 46 percent higher than New Zealand\u2019s since 1991, when we abolished sector-based bargaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe arguments that FPAs and sector-based bargaining stand contrary to good productivity growth are false. Debate based on misinformation and scaremongering will take us nowhere, and it will be seen by New Zealanders as a desperate smokescreen to block progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo I want to be very clear about some of the disinformation that has already been raised by members opposite. Firstly, there is no compulsory union membership under FPAs. Existing voluntary unionism rights are affirmed in Part 2 of the bill. Secondly, there is no recourse to industrial action by employees or employers during FPA negotiations. Any claim to the contrary is factually false and is designed to scare rather than inform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIf the parliamentary Opposition want to create memes of me in an awesome 1970s shirt and bloviate about Soviet Russia, then so be it, but I think that New Zealanders deserve and expect better, given the issues at hand. I say further to members opposite that there is an honourable, conservative tradition in this country of supporting security and stability for people and communities. Much of that was ripped away by the tidal wave of reform 30 or 40 years ago. Both this Government and the previous one have had to try and deal with some of the social damage that resulted. FPAs, at their core, are about rebuilding the social contract, valuing work, and creating the stability and security that allows our communities to thrive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill fulfils a Labour manifesto commitment that was democratically campaigned on at the 2020 election. It\u2019s a piece of legislation that is in the best traditions of reforming Labour Governments that improve life for working New Zealanders and move our country forward, and it is in the best traditions of the Kiwi values of a fair go for all and working together. This bill will help stop the race to the bottom. It will enable good-faith bargaining at the sector level to overcome inequalities that have developed over the past 30 years. Through FPAs, we will build a more inclusive economy in which employees and employers can table their aspirations and negotiate as equals in good faith to solve problems and chart a fairer, safer, and more productive future ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs I said before, this bill is for Mele, Malia, Jason, Wa\u2019el, Connor, Muwela, and Morris. It is for those workers who help make our country, but who have been left out in the cold. It is about the dignity and the value of their work in our society. It is about fairness. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00220651c054b6614be388f9ce264e68f94c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220651c054b6614be388f9ce264e68f94c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e37d8ec8eba64ecc9821415876dadd75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e37d8ec8eba64ecc9821415876dadd75\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and it\u2019s my pleasure to speak on this bill. This legislation, introduced today, is not about fair pay; it is about the Government imposing mandatory union deals on Kiwi workplaces. Well, let\u2019s not make any bones about this: there\u2019s no choice involved, either for workers or for business operators. The misnamed fair pay agreements will be imposed on our workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd we have this Minister opposite who has this dark view of the world\u2014in the past 30 years, since 1991, what we have seen in this country is a consistent reduction in unemployment from the high levels of the 1970s and 1980s, when we had huge parts of the workforce unemployed in a rigid labour market situation, and, since that time, New Zealanders have enjoyed a jobs boom and the opportunity to have employment, to look after themselves and their families. And labour market flexibility has been one of the key elements of that success. So the key question for us is whether these mandatory union deals will make our economy stronger, and our clear answer is no: it will make our workplaces less agile, less flexible\u2014at the very time when they need to be. More than ever. That\u2019s why National opposes this legislation, why the overwhelming majority of business owners oppose this legislation, and why, I believe, New Zealanders will be concerned when they learn about how this proposed so-called fair pay agreement works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, this bill arrives at a time when New Zealand is facing very significant economic challenges\u2014perhaps the biggest for a generation. I mean, if we step back, globalisation is in retreat, if we look around the world, with a rise of protectionism over the past few years amongst big trading powers, those restrictions accelerated by the COVID restrictions over the past couple of years, and turbocharged by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Globalisation and, sadly, democracy, is in retreat. And what that means for a small trading nation, like New Zealand, remains unclear, but our prosperity has been underpinned by relatively free trade. And so the risks to our prosperity, right here, right now, are very significant. And that prosperity that we, as a country, have built over the past few decades is at risk. So now is not the time for economic complacency; it is the time when we should be focusing on building our economic strength so that New Zealanders have the opportunity to thrive and succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd we\u2019re also facing the highest inflation in 30 years, where the price of goods are increasing at twice the rate of wages, so New Zealanders are battling to stay still. We also see a net outflow of migrants to Australia already happening, and that flow will increase significantly. So these are real, substantial economic challenges. And what is the Government\u2019s response? Nothing but adding costs to New Zealand businesses, with no concept of the implications for our competitiveness. And there\u2019s nothing major to say about impediments holding New Zealand back. We see a Government focused entirely on redistribution of our wealth through higher benefits, through higher minimum wage, through strengthening the unions, through the mandatory union deals\u2014all of which may have their place at times, but they have nothing to say about how we grow the economy so that we can pay for it. And that is why middle New Zealand is worried and have very good reason to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis bill is indulging an ideological wish list that this Government came into government with. The return to national awards and the move to strengthen unions\u2014despite no empirical evidence whatsoever as to either the problem or the policy response. Let me quote directly from Treasury and what they had to say about these fair pay agreements, so-called: \u201CThere\u2019s been minimal identification of empirical evidence for the problem or the policy response.\u201D But they did note that the proposed system could make structural changes to the labour market and have negative effects on worker conditions, employment, and productivity. So the rationale for the mandatory union deals is as clear as mud. And that is what we\u2019re seeing from this Government. It\u2019s consistent with Labour\u2019s desire to centralise control and not trust New Zealanders to make decisions about themselves and what\u2019s in their own interests. It\u2019s certainly not based on evidence, and certainly no evidence that it will increase New Zealanders\u2019 wealth, living standards, and prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo a question I have for the Minister is how does a return to national awards across industries and occupations help New Zealand businesses become more agile, more flexible, and competitive in a rapidly changing workplace environment, and, in a rapidly changing global environment? How will it lift our national income? And we will never get very clear answers on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just go through the bill and what it does. Are you sure it brings in this framework for industry-wide or occupational-wide minimal-employment terms? So any eligible union can initiate the bargaining process if it meets a test of only 10 percent of employees in the proposed coverage, or 1,000 employees\u2014but 10 percent, yeah\u2014or a public interest test based on low pay or bargaining power; so that, basically, could be it. So maybe you don\u2019t even have to make it to 10 percent, I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen the chief executive of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment decides whether the process goes forward\u2014so it can be either industry, so it could be all, I don\u2019t know, transport workers, perhaps, or it could be all aged-care workers, or an occupation\u2014it could be all sales workers, I don\u2019t know. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to find in the next little while. And if you happen to be minding your own business operating a cleaning business up in Hokianga with five employees, you might not know anything about the process, you might not know if it even exists\u2014you\u2019re doing your own business, trying to make a living, and then, suddenly, whoomph, you\u2019re part of a process and you just have to accept whatever comes out of the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, if sides aren\u2019t represented by an eligible union, or the two sides that are supposed to get down and do all this bargaining on a national level\u2014there\u2019s supposed to be a union side and a business side, or employer association. Now, Business New Zealand told the Government to clear off\u2014\u201CWe don\u2019t want to be involved in this and we don\u2019t want to be part of a thing that we don\u2019t agree with.\u201D And so two days after the Minister introduced this legislation, that he\u2019s been working on for four years and has been something that he\u2019s dreamt about every night for a long time\u2014two days after he introduced that, he brings in a change saying, \u201COh well, actually, the bill that I just introduced didn\u2019t do the job and so here\u2019s a proposed change which is to bring in a backstop so if Business New Zealand or nobody else turns up on the employer side, well, we\u2019ll just go straight to the Employment Relations Authority and they\u2019ll make a determination.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd so, basically what happens, if you do manage to find two debating sides, they get together, they argue, they negotiate, then it\u2019s put to a vote on both sides, and if it loses that vote twice it ends up before the Employment Relations Authority. This, by the way, being an institution that takes about 300 days, on average, to come to a conclusion on any of its particular topics at the moment, so it is hardly the most efficient organisation in the world. And so that\u2019s going to be interesting to see how they cope with this. They have enough trouble with personal grievances; just imagine how they\u2019re going to deal with the imposition of fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, this organisation comes along, makes a determination, and that determination is binding on all businesses and employees who happen to be caught within it, even though, like I say, the cleaning business up in Hokianga might know nothing about it, have had no engagement with the process, who had never heard of it, doesn\u2019t even know what a fair pay agreement is, and, all of a sudden, they have to have the same terms and conditions as everyone, or else. Now, there\u2019s some talk of regional variation, but who knows what that means?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd so we\u2019re left with this imposed fair pay agreement, so-called, what we would call a mandatory union deal, imposed on the business and the workers, on the workplace, and there we go. And so the conclusion is, well, how\u2019s that actually going to help? How\u2019s it going to make people\u2019s lives better? Well, we, on this side of the House, believe that it\u2019s best for people who are actually in the workplace, who go to the job, go to the business, know what\u2019s going on in their community, to make arrangements that suit them, within the broad context of what we have, which is, already, one of the highest minimum wages in the world, lots of terms and conditions that have been set in order to protect the vulnerable. And New Zealanders, as a long tradition, have been concerned to do that. But this bill just adds another layer of mandatory control and rigidity, which is the last thing we need as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo my final point is this is a time when New Zealanders need to be focusing on building our strength and, instead, what we\u2019re doing is adding costs, and complication, and rigidity to our system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022223bdbd8f085416b9129ab2bacc294bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022223bdbd8f085416b9129ab2bacc294bd\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister for Economic and Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I stand in support of this Fair Pay Agreements Bill and I think the former Minister Goldsmith and I have one thing in common: we should be using this point in time on building on our strengths and our competitive advantages in creating the sort of economy that is going to last us into the short, medium, and long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBefore I came into Parliament, I was involved in business: large New Zealand corporates\u2014Fletcher Challenge and Carter Holt Harvey\u2014a small private but highly successful company involved in international trade, and the director of strategic developments in a large State sector organisation. I have Master\u2019s degrees in law and management and forestry science. In fact, my forestry science thesis was in commerce and, as Minister for Small Business and Minister for Economic and Regional Development, it is my clear focus and driving challenge to lift productivity in this wonderful country, because we have so much to offer in this beautiful country that we go to the world both for those who live here, and those who seek to visit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut there is one thing we don\u2019t have, one thing that we have not managed to crack over the years, and that is a high level of both labour and capital productivity or multi-factor productivity that other small advanced economies have. We have, over the years, overvalued capital and undervalued labour. Instead of investing in plant and machinery to drive productivity, to proactively increase investment in innovation, that will drive and create world-leading companies, we have based our growth on labour. In fact former finance Minister Bill English stated that our global competitive advantage was our cheap labour. No more. Our global competitive advantage will not and cannot be built on the back of working New Zealanders earning low wages under poor conditions. Bill English\u2019s vision was almost 19th century in its ambition and is the reason why economic growth under the previous Government was based on immigration, not innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EEvery single management case study of innovative successful companies from around the world, let alone this country, highlights the culture created by owners/employers. It highlights that success isn\u2019t built on the back of workers but achieved by management and employees standing side by side, working together to drive the type of growth, innovation, and productivity required to help deliver a strong, sustainable economy that will help deliver success in the short and medium and long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EGood employers\u2014and I freely acknowledge that the majority of New Zealand employers are good bosses\u2014have nothing to fear from fair pay agreements. Most, I think we will find, will be able to use the provisions to benchmark what they are doing and how they are treating their staff, and implement in a way that actually adds value both as an employer and as a company. The former speaker, Minister Michael Wood, highlighted some case studies themselves of people who come into the place that we call almost home, that we call \u201Cour house\u201D, and work incredibly hard and yet do not earn enough to be able to live with dignity. That is not fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs a businessman, I completely understand and absolutely buy into the value created by fair pay agreements and cannot understand why the National Party would be so against, would be so opposed, certainly at this point in our economic history. But then again, I was actually on duty in this House when the Hon Paul Goldsmith, National\u2019s workplace relations spokesman, spoke on the Matariki bill. During his contributions, he spoke against increases in sick leave for workers\u2014in the middle of a pandemic! He spoke against increases in the minimum wage. He wanted to get rid of the labour weekend holiday, and he spoke in favour of tax cuts that would give someone on the median wage $2, however someone on over $180,000 a significant windfall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI genuinely believe that Chris Luxon, the Leader of the Opposition, misspoke when he called people \u201Cbottom feeders\u201D. I genuinely believe that he is a better person than that, and he misspoke and he probably regrets that. But this is not the way, nor is it the rhetoric, to increase productivity or profitability. It is the tired words and out-of-date ideas from a previous time, and we need to do better. I refuse to buy into the National philosophy that workers are just numbers on a spreadsheet to be manipulated and characterised as mere factors in production to be minimised and traded in a way that is unacceptable to most. Former Prime Minister the Rt Hon Jim Bolger actually bought into the need for us to make change. And when I hear Paul Goldsmith talk about unions in the way he does, it makes me wonder what he actually truly believes about workers and their rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe thing I love about unions is that they are the voice for those who have not got a voice. We all know, in the vast majority of companies, whether they be large corporates or small businesses, that there is an imbalance in power between those who own or run the company and those who work in the company. And the thing that unions do is they represent workers in a way that addresses that imbalance of power. They provide a level of fairness which is crucial to a highly functioning workforce and a highly productive economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs mentioned, good employers have nothing to fear from fair pay agreements; in fact, quite the opposite. Great employers should welcome the ability to benchmark their practices against industry best practice. In fact, what the good and the great employers will do and, as mentioned, I acknowledge the vast majority of New Zealand employers\u2014certainly every single employer that I have met\u2014is a good employer who wants what is right for his or her workers and his or her company, and, in fact, the country. But what it will stop is, in fact, that race to the bottom that Minister Wood spoke about. It will stop the cowboys coming in and creating an environment which is uncompetitive and untenable to the vast majority who live in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMost of us are here are mothers or fathers, and the thought of our children working in companies in a way that they were exploited is just not tenable, let alone our friends, our family, our colleagues, and those who live in our communities. Those who exploit their workers are on notice that their practices will not be tolerated, nor are they acceptable to the vast majority who live in our communities. The norms and practices reinforced by fair pay agreements are those reflected by our diverse communities. No longer should people have to work in a way that is unacceptable to the majority of New Zealanders and, to be honest, no longer acceptable to the vast majority of our trading partners either. As global consumers become more engaged, more educated and more enabled, they will want to know that they are buying products from companies that employ their workers, that treat their workers, in a way that is reinforced by these fair pay agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have a brand that is \u201C100% Pure\u201D. It is a brand enhanced by our Prime Minister, who asked us all to be kind, and we bought into this. In fact, those words resonated around the world to the point that we were acknowledged in 2020 and 2021 by a number of world-leading and reputable organisations as the country that dealt with COVID better than anyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5ffd7771c1b4fe0b3de489d29088fea\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s that going now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbdf8c4e7e604608ab7dff6b8e2d0af9\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It is now time that we also live this brand, and I think it\u2019s going incredibly well, Dr Reti, because we have one of the lowest death rates in the OECD and, as a medical practitioner, I am astounded you are asking that question. But that aside, it is time that we lived this brand, we heeded the call in all our workplaces, across every industry, across our country. Our competitive advantage will not and cannot be built on low wages. Low wages is not a plan for the future, nor a strategy for prosperity. And disrespecting workers is not a way to treat other human beings. Fair pay agreements will ensure that workers are treated well and are treated fairly, that employers understand their obligations and, once again, we can take our place in the world as a wonderful place in the world to do work and to work. That is only fair and right. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b925fbdf2f534ad19a3823c35c70304e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b925fbdf2f534ad19a3823c35c70304e\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. If ever there was a piece of legislation that clearly and decisively separated the differences in terms of philosophy and ideology between the socialist left and those of us on the centre-right of this Parliament, it\u2019s this piece of legislation. This is nothing more than an ideologically driven piece of payback for the trade union movement. When my colleague Paul Goldsmith says that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5319137148c4afd8745709e73a5dcc7\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. The Standing Orders are very clear that it is out of order for a member to suggest that other members might be behaving in a way as reflected by the member\u2019s comments about payback just now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286341ce914cd4075953371d59bff5110\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker. The member is correct, except for the fact that in the previous two parliaments his former ministerial colleague the Hon Phil Twyford made repeated references to the National Party doing particular things because of kickbacks, and paybacks, and other unsavoury allegations, all of which were allowed to stand and none of which were ruled out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e8908fb7af45b38099c497a302b664\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the member to continue his speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7991be128d646ecaf3590da0eeea36b\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. So the fundamental philosophical and ideological difference is one that sees\u2014on this side of the House\u2014people as individuals, as intelligent, smart people who can, and should, negotiate deals with their employer on terms and conditions that they negotiate directly with their employer. And over the last 30 years or so, that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019ve had. But on the other side of the House, on the socialist side of the House, people are considered to be little more than units of productivity to be herded, cajoled, and coerced into group actions that they may not want to participate in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo for those of us who are of an age where we remember the bad old days before the Employment Contracts Act of 1991, we recall how bad what used to be called \u201Cnational awards\u201D were. And this mandatory union deals piece of legislation does exactly that. It takes us back 30 years, to a time when most New Zealanders thought we had well passed and would not be ever returning to. Because for the last 30 years or so, New Zealanders had a nimble, easy, flexible employment relations framework that has enabled employers and employees to come to terms with each other in a way that encouraged businesses to succeed and to thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is a road block to that continued nimbleness, that continued entrepreneurialism, and the handbrake will be well and truly put on\u2014mostly small\u2014businesses around New Zealand. Because this is a piece of legislation that seeks to pigeon-hole everybody, every business, every employee, into a pre-set, determined view of what their role in our economy should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI\u2019m wanting to focus a little bit on some of the historical detail that has caused us to be debating this piece of legislation today. It goes back to the very formation of the parliamentary Labour Party. And those people who have studied their history will understand and remember that, actually, the trade union movement was formed towards the end of the 1800s, at a time when workplace reform was desperately needed. And the trade union movement around the word\u2014not just in New Zealand, but in Australia, in the UK, in North America, and other parts of the world\u2014developed to achieve those outcomes. But very quickly, just as in other parts of the world, they found that if they were to have true influence on decision making, they needed a role in a place like this\u2014in a parliament. And so, out of the trade union movement was birthed the parliamentary Labour Party. Those connections are deep, they are historical, they are political, and they are of course financial as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo since the Employment Contracts Act 1991 and the abolition of compulsory trade-unionism, a couple of interesting things have happened. And one of the most interesting things is that New Zealanders have realised that, for most of them, trade unions are simply irrelevant\u2014for most New Zealand workers, trade unions are simply irrelevant. Very few New Zealanders these days are members of a trade union, and so over that 30 years, of course, union membership and union financial strength has diminished considerably. And then join the dots as to why it should be that a parliamentary Labour Party in 2022 would want to wind back the clock to be putting through legislation, using it\u2019s absolute majority in this Parliament, to ensure, actually, that unions have a continued future. Well, if unions were so important, New Zealanders would have joined them; they would have done that voluntarily. Actually, it\u2019s something about like 14 percent of New Zealand employees are members of trade unions, and the vast majority of those are in the public sector. In the private sector, the percentage is very low indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo for those who are younger than I am in this Parliament, and there are a few, but out there in the workplace, there are a whole lot of people who are, say, under the age of 40 who simply don\u2019t remember the bad old days of demarcation disputes\u2014which were not disputes between employer and employee, but actually demarcations between unions scrapping over which unions should have the right to represent a particular employee at award negotiations. Now, there\u2019s nothing in this piece of legislation that prevents demarcation disputes occurring again. Yes, there will be, in this legislation, a provision that prevents employees and employers going to an industrial action dispute, but nothing about unions fighting over\u2014in a demarcation way\u2014who is going to represent a particular group of employees. And so we\u2019ll be back to that. So there\u2019s a whole group of younger people who don\u2019t remember any of that bad old days stuff, but are soon going to be back in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAnd what happens for those younger people? Well they\u2019ve grown up and are now used to a level of workplace democracy that is good, that is proper, and that is working very well for New Zealanders, and they don\u2019t want to be cajoled and coerced into a template pigeonhole model that is of the sort that this legislation seeks to provide. And so, for most younger New Zealanders, they\u2019ll be scratching their heads and saying, \u201CWhy am I being forced to negotiate\u2014well, in fact, to lose my right to negotiate with my employer? Why is it going to be that decisions about my terms of employment, my hours of work, my rate of pay, and the conditions upon which I\u2019m employed\u2014why will it be that I no longer have a say in those matters and that those matters will be decided by big unions and big business, probably in a closed room in Wellington somewhere?\u201D The only difference between that kind of scenario and what used to happen 30 years or more ago is that the smoke-filled rooms will no longer be there. But in secret meeting rooms behind closed doors, pay and conditions and terms, under this piece of legislation, will be negotiated by faceless people who don\u2019t represent the interests and the best prospects for those people who they are purportedly negotiating for. They will be representing the interests of either business or unions, and there\u2019ll be very little concern for individual employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAnd so the whole term \u201Cfair pay agreement\u201D is just so wrong, on every level. The really proper term should be \u201Cmandatory union deals\u201D. But there\u2019s going to be fightback, because this Parliament will pass this legislation and it will do so on the back of the current Government\u2019s absolute majority. But I want to give fair notice to the current Government, most of whom won\u2019t be coming back in the next Parliament\u2014fair notice to those few that will return, but a re-elected National Government will repeal this legislation. A re-elected National-led Government will repeal this legislation. So that\u2019s fair notice to the employers, to the businesses, and to the employees around New Zealand who are fearful and worried about a trip back in time, a time that was less enlightened, a time that was less flexible, a time that was less nimble, and a time that\u2014in workplace relations\u2014was less democratic, less fair, and was dominated by big unions and big business. That simply doesn\u2019t reflect a modern, future-focused employment framework, and it\u2019s not going to be suitable for New Zealanders as we strive to make our way in a competitive world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo mandatory union deals are going to be a feature of the New Zealand framework for a very short period of time. It\u2019s my absolute hope, and I know that my colleagues on this side of the House will be working even harder with legislation of this sort to ensure that there is a change of Government at the next election so that this sort of old-fashioned, tired, draconian legislation\u2014and, to use the words of the Hon Stuart Nash, \u201Ctired words and out-of-date\u201D thinking which represents this legislation\u2014will be repealed absolutely as soon as possible. And New Zealand employers, New Zealand employees, can take heart that that help and assistance will be forthcoming to them just absolutely as soon as possible, and that the use of a blunt instrument like an absolute majority based on nothing more than ideological principle and a relationship with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573e4ffd669c4fa295cdbfc089caccee\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022920553635a14407da66e4d25395a1fc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022920553635a14407da66e4d25395a1fc3\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, otir\u0101 ki ng\u0101 mema katoa o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Madam Speaker, and greetings to all the members of the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWow\u2014it\u2019s a great day. It\u2019s an absolutely great day. Pleased to take a call on the Fair Pay Agreements Bill on behalf of my constituents of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, of which my auntie\u2014and I come from a long line of freezing workers, who always told me that the freezing workers were the backbone of Aotearoa New Zealand. I\u2019m proud to take a call on a bill that continues the modernisation of our industrial relations employment standards in Aotearoa New Zealand. We are 2022, not 1991. So I am pleased. Can I acknowledge the work of the Minister Michael Wood and his advisory group in getting this bill before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s unfortunate that we\u2019ve had two very senior members on that side roll out the same old argument\u2014\u201Canti-union\u201D. They didn\u2019t address the issue around productivity and lifting wages and valuing staff and workers in the employment space\u2014none of that. I listened intently to two very senior members\u2014nothing. It\u2019s a travesty that they actually haven\u2019t understood the bill or come to this House and put up ideas around how they would lift productivity, how they would lift wages, and how they would respect workers in the workplace, because this is exactly what this bill intends to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ELook, another story I want to talk about in my acknowledgment of my freezing works whakapapa was pre-1991, where there were national awards. Everybody in my household, from my father to my mother to my siblings to my first cousins to my auntie, all worked in the freezing works and were part of the national awards. What happened in those times was productivity was very, very high. Wages were very, very high. In fact, people bought their homes by merely working in the freezing works, because that enabled them to look after their families. Communities were born out of national awards. The participation of employees on behalf of their unions derived benefit in the homes of the people that this bill is acknowledging. For too long, that side have ignored the contribution of our workers across the nation in the fabric of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I\u2019m standing in support of something that gives hope to many of our workers, be they freezing workers, be they shearing gangs, our cleaners, or our front-line workers, who have done it extremely tough in the last two and a half years. This bill is sending a signal to them that they matter, that we on this side care for them. But also the involvement of those progressive employers who continue to do the right thing by their employees\u2014and I\u2019m talking about the living wage, and the fact that they are acknowledging the contribution. Has the sky fallen in for those employers\u2014has the sky fallen in? No, the sky does not fall in when you are doing a fundamental piece of legislation that looks after a key component of businesses and workplaces up and down this country, and it is in this Fair Pay Agreements Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s the first reading, but it\u2019s interesting to hear that side\u2014and I\u2019m hoping that the following speakers on the Opposition side will actually come to the party, will come to the debate, on how their side will address productivity and wage lift and how they will protect the roles of their workers. In fact, the former speaker talked about \u201CIt\u2019s already happening\u201D\u2014it\u2019s already happening. Mr Goldsmith talked about voluntary unionism. These are slogans. They\u2019re not ideas of how you are going to lift productivity and wages and look after and treat workers fairly in this country. They haven\u2019t offered that. Their two key speakers have not done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo my message to the ones that are following: get up and say what you would do so that when we take this bill out for full consultation, people will actually see what this side, what the Government, is putting up, and by comparison what that side is putting up. Rubbishing unions and rubbishing that \u201CIt\u2019s already happening\u201D and keeping flexible labour market practice\u2014and we know for many employees, they do not have a voice. They do not have the ability to sit across from their employer and bargain a deal that\u2019s in their best interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s happened to the collective responsibility? We\u2019ve seen this during COVID, where the nation has come together as one to look after each other. But what we hear on that side: no, it\u2019s up to the individual. If you\u2019ve got a stronger, bigger voice than anyone else, you\u2019re likely to get a better deal. But what about the many who do not have that ability? What happens to their rights and their ability to advocate\u2014\u201CWell, if you give that deal for that person, why can\u2019t I get that deal?\u201D What is wrong with sharing a collective agreement that all workers in the workplace benefit from? So this bill is attempting to do that by putting minimum provisions during the negotiation\u2014[Interruption] There you go. We\u2019ve got an ACT member yapping over there. I\u2019m looking forward to ACT\u2019s contribution to this debate. I want to particularly hear what they are going to do around lifting productivity and wages. I bet you it\u2019ll be some empty slogans that are, in my view, lazy around the lack of research into what this bill is actually doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m proud to be on this side of the House, who put our workers at the forefront of a modern industrial employment system here in Aotearoa New Zealand. It is well overdue. It is to return the ability to acknowledge that national awards pre-1991\u2014and I\u2019ve got to say, for my sins, I was actually working in the Department of Labour as a very young\u2014yes, I might have been 10; OK, I was a bit older. In the Department of Labour, we actually had to do the policy work on the Employment Contracts Act. I can tell you that many, many of my colleagues were very upset that we were changing and decentralising the system out, and the flexibility. To my analysis, for the time I remained at that department, it did not lift productivity. In fact, it spiralled many, many workers up and down this country with the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut here we are. It\u2019s a better day. It\u2019s a new day. We\u2019re now in 2022, and we are acknowledging the Fair Pay Agreements Bill in this first reading. I too look forward to it going to select committee. I too want to give the message to all those employers and employees: please take the time to read the bill. Don\u2019t listen to the easy slogans that the Oppositions are throwing at it. Have a look at the bill. See yourself in it. See the benefits it will derive your business as well as your staff and workers that work in the workplace, because this is what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really pleased, like I said, to belong to a party that does put the people at the forefront, but I too want to add my support in the economic development space that we need to have a modern workforce that acknowledges not only the cost of the labour to do the job but also the value around discretionary effort. When you go into a workplace where you are valued, not just in terms of what you get in your weekly pay packet, but when the practice and the values of that employment and that employer values you as a person, you will always go the extra mile\u2014you will always go that extra mile. We have not valued discretionary effort and the contribution it makes in the economic sense of that business. It\u2019s now time that for some of us, on this side, we talk about and acknowledge the discretionary effort and the value it returns to the business, to the employer, at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great day. I\u2019m proud to stand in support, and I commend the Fair Pay Agreements Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222d030f99113948ed90bd1ec829df1e71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d030f99113948ed90bd1ec829df1e71\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pretty stoked to get to stand up and take a call on this piece of legislation, finally. Sitting in this part of the bench, we\u2019re not always in agreement with the Government, but I can tell the House this evening that tonight we are 100 percent celebrating this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believe that at the heart of a fair society, one of the key cornerstones are decent wages, stable jobs, and safe working conditions. All of those things have been significantly under threat in this country for the last three decades. We\u2019ve seen international evidence\u2014and I\u2019ve heard from the National Party members this evening about how great and how much better things are now than they were before the economic reforms of the 1980s and 1990s. Things are so much better! We are so prosperous now\u2014so prosperous\u2014that the incomes of the top 1 percent have doubled in that time period\u2014prosperous! But the disposable incomes of the poorest 10 percent have flat-lined, basically, since the 1980s. The money, rather than trickling down, has funnelled and been pulled up to the wealthiest, to the point when 50 percent of the collective wealth in this country is less than 1 percent of the wealth held by the top 1 percent. Like, I can\u2019t even get my head around those numbers. It has been an absolute transfer of wealth from the majority of us to the minority of us, and that is the prosperity that the National Party has been talking about and they are fighting to protect this evening. That is not something the Green Party wants to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe believe that our collective effort, the benefits of it, should be shared across those who are doing the work. And the international evidence is really clear: strong unions and collective bargaining frameworks are the best tools for delivering decent pay, stable jobs, and safe workplaces. And they are our best tool for reducing inequality as well as, not at all magically, improving performance and productivity. We\u2019re being told by the National Party that the interests of working people are in opposition to productivity and collective effort. It is just simply not true. The reverse is true. Since the 1980s\u2014and we\u2019ve got to a point where now less than one in five working people are covered by a collective contract in this country, compared to the 70 percent that it used to be, and before those radical right-wing reforms of the 1980s and 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI just want to also challenge the idea that\u2019s been put forward by the National Party that this is left versus right. This is radical right-wing versus, actually, the majority of the rest of the world, and including conservative right-wing people like the Hon Jim Bolger, who led the working party that came up with this proposal. This is not right versus left; this is radical thinking versus the rest of us. The Greens are very happy to stand by the restoration of decent conditions, because those reforms from the 1980s and 1990s that took a sledgehammer to our social structures and employment laws resulted in more people being in precarious work; more people being on low wages; the voices and experience of working people\u2014and most of us will have had this experience\u2014not being valued or heard in their workplaces; and poor decision-making happening as a result; an entrenched, what I would describe as a, health and safety crisis, where our rates of workplace injuries and deaths are so much higher than comparable countries; where productivity has not kept pace with other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd we heard from the Minister how productivity growth in Australia, where they have sector-based bargaining, is 46 percent higher than it is here since we got rid of sector-based bargaining, and where employers have been competing actively on wages, not service, not innovation, not product\u2014on wages; where a previous National Party Prime Minister was proud to say that we were competing internationally on the benefit of our low wages\u2014on the benefit of our low wages. And the consequence of that has been two out of five children living in poverty in this country were in working families where parents did not and do not now have the time to spend with their children that they need to, where they don\u2019t have the time to engage in their community, to return to their homes to reconnect to their marae, and do not have the time or the money to be able to keep a roof over their head. We\u2019ve seen increased transients and poor educational outcomes as a result, and we\u2019ve seen a crisis of mental health. These things are not disconnected; this is the result of policies that undermine our sense of collectivity as a country, that undermine the voice and the value of working people in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd through the pandemic, to me, it\u2019s been incredibly obvious that the country has come to a realisation that, actually, things have been a bit out of whack, that these essential workers\u2014there\u2019s cleaners and security guards and bus drivers and retail workers\u2014who have put themselves and their families\u2019 lives on the line on the daily to look after us have been undervalued. We\u2019ve seen such strong support for an increase in wages to ensure that they are all on a living wage. But we\u2019ve had no mechanism as a country to be able to do that, because we have no sector-based bargaining model. This will enable us as a country to say thank you, to enable those employers and those employees to be able to work together to come up with some decent wages and conditions to say thank you, that essential jobs in a pandemic are essential jobs every day that we need to be valuing the work of every person in this country, and that exploitation has no place in a decent society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo the Greens are so pleased to be supporting this bill. I will say there will be some things that we will be looking at in select committee that we want to explore and maybe see if we can strengthen. So, for the Greens, we know that the Government has other work going on around contractors, but penalties will apply for employers who try to avoid fair pay agreement coverage by misclassifying employees as contractors. This is a really important area. We do not want to have any system that enables employers to create more precariousness by moving people into contracts out of employment to avoid this. And we need to make sure that the work around the rights and employment conditions for contractors goes alongside and is connected to this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe also would like to see the restoration of the recommendations of the fair pay working group around what should be mandatory in agreements. The current proposal is that it\u2019s wages, hours, and overtime. The initial proposal was that it also include redundancy, flexible working, skills and training, and leave. And we would also want to see health and safety because of the crisis that we have in our country around health and safety in our workplaces. So that is something we\u2019ll be exploring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll also be exploring the denial of the right to strike, because the Green Party are very, very proud to continue to support the importance of the right to strike. And we\u2019ve seen the impact on Allied Health workers recently on them being denied that right to strike, and how it protracts and extends wage negotiations when that right is taken away. We want to make sure this works, though we do support the right for determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnyway, finally, it\u2019s a bloody good day and we\u2019re very happy to support this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca3b0e218f654801857b52644f0c1769\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca3b0e218f654801857b52644f0c1769\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of ACT to speak on the first reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, and there are certainly going to be two sides in this debate. It will come as no surprise that ACT will be opposing this bill and making it quite clear that it will be gone after the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis bill amounts to unionism by stealth and will simply make it tougher for businesses who have struggled to keep trading through a one-in-100-year pandemic, and who continue to struggle with the never-ending costs imposed on them by this Government. New Zealanders are free to join a union if they want to. It shouldn\u2019t be forced upon them by Labour\u2019s blind ideology. It\u2019s anti-democratic and anti-freedom. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has warned against fair pay agreements, saying they\u2019ll reduce productivity and make it harder for employers to grow, especially coming at a time of another minimum wage increase, collecting the youth tax, and another statutory holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWhat we heard from Minister Wood earlier on today, intentional or not, was just not correct. The \u201Crace to the bottom\u201D rhetoric is very disingenuous. The fact is that after declining through the 1980s, employees\u2019 pay and conditions have improved substantially since the introduction of the employment contracts agreement in 1991. We\u2019re going to constantly hear from Minister Wood about how fantastic these agreements are in Australia, but everyone, especially hard-working employees, should be very sceptical. Despite what Jan Logie just said, union membership in Australia and throughout the world is declining, as workers prefer to be treated like adults who are more than capable of working out their own conditions for employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis legislation will take us back to the 1970s, as has been alluded to a couple of times this afternoon. I was in my teens in the 1970s, and they were great times. The Benny Hill Show was one of the most watched TV programmes. How do you think that would go in today\u2019s times? Banned from TV\u2014we\u2019ve moved on. Caning and getting the strap was common in schools. I think it\u2019s widely accepted that it probably didn\u2019t do much of us too much harm, but I don\u2019t think it improved productivity that much at all. We\u2019ve moved on. Computers were something we saw on The Jetsons, and now people even work from home\u2014unheard of back then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EUnions were also dominant in the lives of many New Zealanders in the 1970s, but not for a good thing. I grew up with a father who was a staunch union member. He was a marine engineer on the Cook Strait ferries, and I vividly remember the constant talk about \u201Cthe award,\u201D which at the time seemed like a union version of the Bible. Strikes always seemed to occur just before the school holidays\u2014maximum leverage to get their demands. But even as a 12-year-old, I couldn\u2019t help thinking that going on strike because your beds weren\u2019t being made just wasn\u2019t quite right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI know that a lot of the current Government have not experienced this time but it wasn\u2019t all roses. Does the Government seriously believe that the fair pay agreements would\u2019ve helped New Zealand get through this one-in-100-year pandemic? We\u2019re in an environment now where employers and employees work things out to cater for their own situation. Sealord has a parentship from 9 till 2 so their workers can work while their kids are at school. COVID showed us and continues to show us that we need a flexible workforce, one that can pivot\u2014that\u2019s a popular word. Or is it so popular now? Because these fair pay agreements will make things much more difficult. How do you think organising workers to work from home would have gone with the bureaucratic nightmare of fair pay agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis Government uses COVID every time it suits their agenda when their incompetence is shown and the blame needs to be laid. Poverty: blame COVID; homelessness: blame COVID; inflation: blame COVID. Just today, the Prime Minister said that these are trying times. Grant Robertson said they\u2019re extremely challenging times. But from the start of this pandemic, they\u2019ve kept attacking businesses. Two weeks into it they put the minimum wage up. It\u2019s just bizarre. Hard luck\u2014just deal with it: \u201CCOVID doesn\u2019t matter, you guys. No excuse.\u201D And we find out today that Michael Wood wanted a higher minimum wage\u2014just amazing. Let\u2019s make the minimum wage $50 an hour and everyone\u2019s problems will all be over! The Government must realise that businesses that do survive are doing so in spite of the Government, not because of it. The small business Minister should hang his head in shame. When Business New Zealand refuses to have anything to do with this bill, you\u2019d think it would be cause for some concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s workforce has improved from the 1991 introduction of the employment contract agreements, and fair pay agreements are a backward step. One of my employees said to me last week, \u201CWhat else are they going to do to business. Do they want us all to end up on the dole?\u201D Good employees will suffer. I couldn\u2019t believe my ears when I heard a leader from the Public Service Association recently say that they didn\u2019t believe in performance pay, meaning everyone should get the same. Hard-working New Zealanders should be very concerned about this legislation. Everyone benefits from your hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EACT believes that New Zealanders are more than capable of talking to employers and working out pay and conditions that suit both parties and, most importantly, are affordable. The mechanisms in place in employment contract agreements to support employees have worked fantastically over the last 30 years. Labour just doesn\u2019t understand business\u2014profit is a dirty word; productivity a misunderstood concept. This bill will go to select committee and we\u2019ll get lots of submissions. Consultation will be seen to be done, and it will be very interesting to see if this will be another example of Labour\u2019s very specific definition of consultation\u2014namely, \u201CThanks. Now we\u2019ll do what we want.\u201D For the sake of hard-working New Zealanders, ACT will be campaigning to dump 19th century compulsory unionism immediately after the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u002295845703f8f045909bf8119e815f0b54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295845703f8f045909bf8119e815f0b54\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real privilege to be able to take a call in the first reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. Now, it\u2019s clear, as we\u2019ve heard, that parties across the House seem to be agreeing that there are cost of living pressures on Kiwis, and global economic pressures making it even tougher for many to make ends meet. Since we have come into Government, in fact, we\u2019ve lifted wages and done what we could to reduce those pressures for Kiwis, with many measures, including, of course, recently, the 1 April ones, increasing support for 1.4 million New Zealanders. But, as we always say, there\u2019s more to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo we were elected to take action on Aotearoa\u2019s long-term challenges, and that includes making sure that we don\u2019t leave our lowest-paid workers behind. For a very long time now, working life for so many working people has been really tough. Many have struggled to make ends meet, and it\u2019s not a matter of just working harder, because New Zealand workers already work some of the hardest and longest hours in the OECD, but they\u2019ve also seen their share in the economy decrease over the last decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThe problem\u2014and we heard that from Minister Michael Wood very eloquently earlier\u2014is that we had the start of the Employment Contracts Act in 1991, and, of course, what we saw then was an individualised bargaining framework as a model to supposedly come to higher productivity, but that model has absolutely failed. While the economy grew, we saw that growth was not being equally shared amongst employers and employees. So productivity grew and workers worked harder and longer, but their wages and salaries didn\u2019t keep up. Over that same period, we saw good employers being forced out of the workplace by bad employers because there was this continued drive for flexibility and cutting costs, and we had inequality grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWe refer to this as the race to the bottom. It has been mentioned already several times by several speakers, but the race doesn\u2019t actually benefit anyone. It doesn\u2019t benefit the workers. It doesn\u2019t benefit existing business owners, because those are the ones that are forced into bad practices by other employers\u2014bad employers\u2014just because everybody supposedly needs to compete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, we all know people affected. They have been mentioned today. We see them every day in our supermarkets. They are our security guards keeping us and our property safe. They are the cleaners in our offices making sure that we have healthy and safe environments to work in. They are the care workers looking after our vulnerable, and the drivers on our buses. Lifting the wages of our most vulnerable working people has to be a priority for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESector-wide pay agreements have the potential to distribute the wealth that New Zealand produces more fairly, and, while they do that, we can then protect businesses that actually want to compete on quality, on innovation, and on investment in their people. When companies can only win a contract by putting in the lowest bid, the impact of competition on wages and labour costs is borne by those workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EPeople have mentioned hard-working employees and how well they\u2019ve done under this current system in place. Well, let me mention some of those hard-working employees like Leava, a solo mum of three working 70 hours - plus a week. After three years, she is still on a casual contract, earning minimum wage. She had to give her eldest child to her mum and gets a babysitter to look after the youngest one when she does the night shift. She hardly ever sees her family because, when they are awake, she is asleep, and when they are asleep, she is awake and working. She said she feels like a failure as a mum, and her kids miss out on family time. Leava recently had her cleaning hours cut, but at the same time her workload remained the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWe have Jess, a solo mum of a six-year-old. They live with her mum in a small apartment. She works in the supermarket. She starts at 1 a.m., she works till 8.30, then she goes and takes her child to school, and then she goes back and works till 10 o\u2019clock. The business recently had to let some staff go, but the work remained the same, and when anyone on the shift is sick, they just need to work short-staffed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESui, a security guard, used to work in excess of 60 hours a week on minimum wage just to get by. But then one day, her contract was changed. She\u2019s now part-time, but no reasons were given. She\u2019s not allowed to leave the site during a shift, so that means that because there\u2019s no toilet, she can\u2019t drink while she is at work. She often works at car parks or in railway stations, and she doesn\u2019t always feel safe. She\u2019s casual. That means her roster can change at any notice, really, and she can be sent all over Auckland. She says she can\u2019t plan anything in life, because of that uncertainty in her work. When you ask her, she describes her life as being in survival mode.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, these workers have many things in common. They all struggle to make ends meet. They\u2019re too afraid to speak up, for fear of losing their job. They describe similar feelings of helplessness and increased levels of stress, fatigue, and feelings of isolation. There\u2019s little job security, no training, and no career progression. These workers are all in industries that share the same problem: they are trapped in a race to the bottom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to know that many employers would actually like to offer fair terms but they\u2019re unable to, because they get undercut by competitors that are offering only the bare minimum. So look at supermarkets, for example. Countdown is unionised, but Foodstuffs has little unionisation because how it is structured is as franchises. Countdown workers are told by their employer that they have to compete against the lower-waged competition, and then that pulls the whole sector down when it comes to terms and conditions. Connor says about that that \u201CA fair pay agreement across the supermarket industry will do a fantastic job at setting a level that can\u2019t be undercut and allowing, as a result of that, for better conditions, better wages, and better livelihoods.\u201D But poor working conditions in these jobs lead to higher risk of injury at the workplace, and then you get reduced quality of work and service, increased sickness, and reduced motivation to work hard or even remain in the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, that is in very stark contrast to the fact that New Zealand has one of the worst productivity performances in the world, as the Minister mentioned before, but what we see in countries like Germany or in Australia is that it\u2019s the opposite. But these agreements have been operating in those countries\u2014and, in fact, in Australia\u2014for over four decades. But Australia continues to outstrip what our Kiwi workers are getting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo what would a fair pay agreement (FPA) do? It would enable the parties\u2014the unions and companies\u2014to negotiate a set of industry standards, a decent floor that upholds pay and conditions and covers things like pay, training, qualification, and thereby it would uplift the overall capability of that whole industry. FPAs, by putting a floor on the price of labour, encourage competition on the quality of services, of product, and of innovation, instead of focusing on competition on wages and labour cost. Morale, staff retention, and skills would all be improved, and these jobs that we talk about as low-skilled would actually become sustainable careers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBut, actually, it is much more than just jobs; it is about protecting the basic human rights of workers: the right to be treated fairly and with dignity, to feel respected, and to feel valued. When people are engaged, there\u2019s positive energy, and that then translates to higher discretionary effort. As my colleague Minister Whaitiri said, it\u2019s going the extra mile\u2014you get better productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo the key is that people in these industries are best placed to tell us what they need to have fair, decent, and secure work. They should be able to sit around the table with the employer and negotiate the things that they need to achieve fair and safe working environments. It\u2019s about giving workers a voice in the setting of their work conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about giving workers a voice, it reminds me of the time that I worked for Air New Zealand, and I was president of the flight attendants\u2019 union and, later, head of aviation of E t\u016B. In 2013, with the arrival of a new CEO, we began to work with High Performance High Engagement (HPHE). It\u2019s a workplace democracy model where people closest to problems in the workplace work together to find long-term solutions. I know that the Air New Zealand CEO at the time really became heavily invested in the process. In his words, he wanted to get away from the Punch and Judy show, because the HPHE process was a way of ending decades of distrust and hardball industrial relations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThat Air New Zealand CEO for five years worked collaboratively with unions, giving workers a voice: unions, workers, and the company sitting around the table, working on solutions. That CEO is now the current Leader of the Opposition, and if the National Party has turned the page, as the Mr Luxon has said before, then this is Mr Luxon\u2019s prime opportunity to show that. But having listened to some of his senior speakers, senior members of the National Party, I am not holding my breath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said earlier, we all seem in agreement that it\u2019s tough for many Kiwis to make ends meet, and National have frequently mentioned the difference in wages between New Zealand and Australia. So, rather than spouting slogans and rhetoric, now is the time to actually do something about it, because let\u2019s be clear that any party that votes against FPAs is, in fact, voting against higher wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI would like to thank Minister Michael Wood for the leadership and determination shown. FPAs will make a huge difference to New Zealand workers. As chair of the select committee that will work on this bill, I\u2019m looking forward to receiving and hearing the submissions. It\u2019s therefore a great privilege to commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002242492d63c8e247f1aeee6044fe22a377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242492d63c8e247f1aeee6044fe22a377\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call the Hon David Bennett\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002282452af1fedf48fe8cbf8cfe84b010e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282452af1fedf48fe8cbf8cfe84b010e8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I find it quite disgusting and reprehensible what Labour and the Green Party are doing here today. They are actually going out there to the most vulnerable workers in our community and saying to them, \u201CLook at us. We\u2019re looking after you. This is a plan for you.\u201D, when it will do the exact opposite. This is a failed policy that, basically, sent the country bankrupt in the 1970s and it was the Labour Party that actually turned that around by having the reforms of the mid-1980s. We can\u2019t wind the clock back and say that those reforms were wrong; they were followed around the world. And the economic growth and success New Zealand had in the last generation has been a direct result from those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt really gets me that the Labour Party comes in here and does these speeches about how they\u2019re there for the most vulnerable workers and \u201CLook at us. We\u2019re going to look after you.\u201D What it\u2019s actually going to do is actually hurt the most vulnerable workers, because what\u2019s going to happen from this is there\u2019ll be less production in New Zealand, there\u2019ll be higher costs, and the people that actually take the hit on that occasion are the most vulnerable workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere will be inflation out of this. They\u2019ve just said it\u2019s about raising wages. That means inflation. OK, you want inflation at a time that you\u2019ve got more inflation? The only people that really get hurt are the ones that have no assets, low incomes, and are stuck at the bottom. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen. You\u2019re going to hurt the very people that all these speeches are saying you\u2019re trying to help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThen what is going to happen next? It only needs 1,000 workers in one industry to set this up. This enables compulsory unionism in areas that the Government hasn\u2019t been able to get into. Michael Wood\u2019s eyes just raised then. He was on TV this weekend saying he wants to get rid of the contractors in certain cases\u2014don\u2019t you? We know that\u2019s the plan. This is part of that plan. They want to take away the competitive pressure of the New Zealand economy. They say competition doesn\u2019t matter. Competition is bad. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve heard from all these speeches. Well, let\u2019s go out in the world and sell our products and say on them\u2014and put a little logo saying\u2014\u201CWe don\u2019t compete.\u201D How are we going to sell those products? Do you think they\u2019re going to buy our milk and our other products just because we say we don\u2019t compete? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e267ac506b16468db9442a8970b0ae30\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Quality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232fda8b60ab24d78a6447b1bac03d64a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Quality\u2014quality? Quality is about price and value. If you take up the price because you\u2019re doing this, then you\u2019re going to artificially destroy the New Zealand economy. It\u2019s what happened in the 1970s. The rest of the world has thrown it away. They do not believe in this because they know it does not work. This is blind ideology from a Labour Party that has to pay back the unions. We all know that the Labour Party is now dominated by the union movement. It\u2019s not the Labour Party of the old that actually represented a mix of New Zealanders; it\u2019s a Labour Party that the unions control, they fund, and they own it. And this is the payback to the unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fea6ee4b48f408888deff44869b70cd\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. For the second time in this debate, an allegation has been made that members of this side are owned and controlled by a force outside of this Parliament. That is in direct contravention of Speakers\u2019 rulings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b4f661ae814543a981b0dd2e4138c1\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Speaking to the point of order. Just for clarity, perhaps the member could tell the House the selection process for Labour MPs where unions are sitting there selecting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf800897cca42cf990438d3258bf78e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that is not a point of order and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c811e294d304b82af9b202d30b470bb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s look at the selection of the leader. It\u2019s done by the union movement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225be8617dce84e489eae0a51ee989534\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will just be seated. So I just remind the member, and I\u2019ll ask him to withdraw and apologise because he was accusing him\u2014he\u2019ll know what he was saying. I\u2019ve asked him to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225832178bf10c4e44ba86b9933473e4a8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What was I accusing\u2014Mr Speaker, what was the problem? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d2d29c44ee44be79ae0f0f52fed3020\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll ask you to withdraw and apologise and if you don\u2019t\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a483f724d6e466cbe292e808af0826c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244036dedc2e641a7b14d11c6a2f11c1a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a2647db032a49f3a3b699c2e158af0e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What other business is their leadership determined by an organisation, is funded by an organisation, and doesn\u2019t have any control over that organisation? Maybe that\u2019s the world we live in where there\u2019s no competition. There\u2019s this ideological place that lasts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis is dumb policy. It\u2019s going to hurt the most vulnerable, and the Labour Party and Green Party should be disgraced and disgusted in the way that they use these people in these speeches to try and promote plans and policies that are only for their own personal gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u002246ba1be569204232b1b9637c75652ad3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246ba1be569204232b1b9637c75652ad3\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great privilege to stand here today and bring the worker\u2019s voice to this Chamber. I\u2019m very, very proud to be able to speak for a few moments on the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. It\u2019s really interesting hearing previous speakers talk about blind ideology and, when we ask the OECD what they think about combined sector- and enterprise-level collective bargaining, they kind of like it because they know it helps with productivity. They know it is associated with higher employment, better integration of vulnerable workers, and less wage inequality. They also see it as linking to skills and training pathways with the aim of increasing productivity and sharing its benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t about ideology; this is about evidence-informed best practice. This is about building a modern, future-focused industrial environment that will support processes where an entire sector can come together and have a really good debate about resolving issues that face the sector. This supports employees and employers. We have seen that this is especially important. I come from Taranaki where we are constantly grappling with the challenges of a just transition, and we have seen sectors come together in arrangements like the workforce development councils where they realise they\u2019ve got to collaborate to resolve industry-wide issues, and fair pay agreements are a really great way of enabling a bright future for our employees and our employers. It will help to improve productivity, sustainability, and inclusiveness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe see that the productivity is improved, not just by improving wages and goodwill. We see reduced staff turnover. We see workers being seen as an investment, not a cost. We constantly hear from the other side of the House about the cost to business of employing labour. When do we hear about the investment in our workers\u2014making sure that they are safe, that they can turn up to work and have a day\u2019s work with dignity, and get a fair pay? These are fair pay agreements, not outrageous pay agreements. This is about investing in our workforces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe know\u2014we know\u2014people say we shouldn\u2019t be talking and bringing the voices of workers to the House. Well, I\u2019m going to bring a couple of voices for you; some of our security workers. So, when you talk to Jason, he says each company is cutting each other to the lowest cost: \u201CWe get the scraps.\u201D How is it the worker gets the scraps? Wa\u2019el: \u201CI get really anxious and very stressed sometimes before the shift even starts, because I go without being provided with proper gear, without proper training, and without proper support.\u201D These workers are often working alone at night. They need support and training to make sure that, when they are confronted by people who are anxious or angry or drunk, that they\u2019ve got the skills to be able to handle that\u2014that they\u2019ve got a radio so they can get some backup. It is absolutely not just acceptable but more than appropriate that workers are looked after to have a safe day at work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really looking forward to this coming to the select committee and starting this process of collaboration. This is how we build a future-focused, nimble, responsive industrial environment that will help us to meet the significant, seismic challenges that we are being faced with\u2014with climate change, with the changes in the global economy. When we go to select committee, we will be hoping that employers and employees turn up in good faith, and help us to ensure that this bill\u2014that we\u2019re trying to build something that is a sophisticated and nuanced industrial environment that works for everybody, that everyone\u2014employers and employees\u2014deserve nothing less: fair pay, fair conditions, that work for everybody. It isn\u2019t \u201Cworkers win and employers lose\u201D. You look after your worker, you invest in your worker; everybody wins. You want productivity ideas? Talk to the workers about that. I recommend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3f505c7e311410982604c392a2b7a09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3f505c7e311410982604c392a2b7a09\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa i t\u0113nei r\u0101 nui, r\u0101 whakahirahira m\u014D ng\u0101 kaimahi o Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E[Greetings to everyone on this very important day for workers in New Zealand.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt is my absolute pleasure and honour to speak at this first reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. To start with, I want to emphasise two key points. The first is that this is a significant change that will bring decent working conditions and fair pay to workers in industries throughout New Zealand. It would be and will be the most significant change to our industrial relations framework since the Employment Relations Act in 2000, and it further reverses the devastating changes for working people brought about by the Employment Contracts Act in 1991. But the second point is that minimum standards or the basic level entitlements that the fair pay agreements will bring are not new to New Zealand. Most of the standards that we take for granted and accept as part of a civil and democratic society are already minimum standards, like sick pay, like the minimum wage, like the right to take a personal grievance. So fair pay agreements, while they may be revolutionary for those that they will cover, will not result in fundamental changes for the people that they don\u2019t. These changes are about workers and fair and decent conditions for working people. It shouldn\u2019t be threatening. It\u2019s just fairness. The clue is in the title of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOf course, it will be up to sectors in industries to determine where fair pay agreements are established, but a group of workers that has often been discussed as some that may benefit from this proposed legislation are bus drivers. Bus drivers are part of a mature industry in New Zealand, and fixed costs are very similar across operators. This has left terms and conditions as the only real point of competition and differentiation between operators. Penal and overtime rates have gradually been removed from bus drivers, and with them, workers control over their own hours and conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI wanted to mention a particular bus driver: Morris. Morris has noticed that his colleagues have struggled after the removal of penal rates to make a decent wage and to spend time with their families. He says\u2014and this is a quote\u2014\u201CFlat rates just mean drivers work more and more hours to make ends meet. They\u2019re on split shifts. They can be doing 14 hours a day, but not getting paid for these hours. It leaves people with no time for their families and it creates fatigue.\u201D We know we will need bus drivers like Morris more and more in the future as we move towards a different way of travelling, to meet our climate goals. We know that public transport is essential, and we have seen this through the COVID-19 pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EMorris deserves fair wages and good working conditions, but the members opposite are labouring under a misapprehension if they think a single bus driver is able to negotiate his own or her own terms and conditions individually with a strong employer. That is just not the reality for these working New Zealanders. It is not correct that this occurs regularly within our economy or our society. As I said, Morris deserves respect and dignity at work, and this should be the experience for all New Zealanders, and fair pay agreements can deliver this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe also know, when you increase wages for people on lower incomes, this money is more likely to be spent creating greater prosperity for our economy. Fair wages are not only the right thing to do, they are the road to prosperity for all. And this is not a new idea. In fact, in 1938, the then Prime Minister, Michael Joseph Savage, told an enthusiastic audience, packed into the Wellington Town Hall\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CNo one can say that reduced wages will help trade or bring about prosperity. When workers have money in sufficient quantities, trade, industry, and production are buoyant, but the moment that wages are reduced, the very reverse is the case.\u201D Labour still stands for fairness. We did then and we do today. Labour stands for high wages and for a strong and prosperous economy. We stand against those who would drive down wages in the race to the bottom, as has been mentioned, or who would take the labour of workers and leave them unable to spend time with their families or take care of their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements will not take us back in time as alleged. This is a modern solution to a modern problem of low wages and low productivity, and is a further real and substantive step to the realisation of the dignity of workers and the recognition of working people\u2019s huge contribution to our society. This bill is the culmination of years of work in the labour movement and union leaders such as Helen Kelly and John Ryall. The Employment Relations Act reversed the worst of these changes, but it is not enough. Collective bargaining these days, even for multi-employer, multi-union collective agreements, still only covers those who work in places that are covered by these agreements. And it didn\u2019t stop the race with no winner: the race to the bottom. So workers are still vulnerable, and this is why we need this legislation. Employers cutting wages and conditions to try and win contracts pits too many New Zealanders against each other. Instead, we want a clear and open pathway to better conditions, to higher wages for more prosperous and a fairer society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI, at this point in my speech, want to reflect on the legacy of one particular union leader and my friend and mentor, Helen Kelly, who sadly passed away in 2016. Her commitment to working people and fairness did not die. It is here in this bill in front of us. In her excellent book Helen Kelly: Her Life, the journalist and author Rebecca Macfie reflected on Helen\u2019s work towards what we now know as fair pay agreements. She mentioned\u2014and I\u2019ll summarise what Rebecca has in her book about this time in Helen\u2019s life: \u201CShe put a prestigious amount of work into policy that would drive minimum wage and conditions across whole industries. This was informed by her work [Helen\u2019s work] at the International Labour Organization, where she had collected a bulging file about wage and bargaining systems from around the world. She was particularly interested in regimes\u2014common in Europe\u2014where agreements were negotiated with large employers and extended across entire sectors, establishing uniform standards of pay and conditions. She was also aware of international research that showed that there was a clear link between income inequality declining and declining rates of collective bargaining.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBy 2011, Helen had drafted up a new law providing mechanisms for industry standard agreements. But this wasn\u2019t like the old award system that we had in New Zealand. Under her proposal, workers could be covered by the industry standard, but they wouldn\u2019t be forced to, so as long as their terms and conditions were no worse than the industry standard. The proposal in this bill is not identical to what Helen had proposed, but the concept and the objectives are the same. I wish Helen was here to see the work that Michael Wood and others have done on this proposal prior to the 2020 election, and to be listening or even participating in the debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn 2020, this Government was democratically elected with a strong mandate from New Zealanders to implement fair pay agreements, and this is what we will do. Before Helen died, I remember Helen saying to me, \u201CHow can I stop fighting?\u201D And she never did, and we won\u2019t either. Fair pay agreements are also Helen Kelly\u2019s legacy. On this side of the House, we will always keep fighting for decent working conditions and fair pay for people like Morris and the thousands others like him that will benefit from this legislation. However, I do think if Helen was here, she wouldn\u2019t care for the praise. She wouldn\u2019t care for the accolades. She would most likely tell us to get on with it and implement the change that needs to be made to ensure more workers in New Zealand have decent conditions and the fair pay that they deserve. So, with that, I proudly, and without hesitation, commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022af5da80606f84acf9550ce5fb584fc24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af5da80606f84acf9550ce5fb584fc24\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just remind members, if they are going to read a speech, don\u2019t do it so I can tell they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9085bf9a44243ccb84cb6ffec952f77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9085bf9a44243ccb84cb6ffec952f77\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was going to read my speech until you said that; now I won\u2019t. It\u2019s very easy to confuse passion with anger, and, in this case, many speakers in Government who have spoken on this bill have seemed angry, not because of injustice but because of an ideology of \u201CWe are the Government. We know what\u2019s best. We got a great big mandate at the last election on this one issue alone\u201D\u2014that I think was mentioned once for about 3.5 seconds on the campaign trail\u2014\u201Cand don\u2019t worry. We are the Government. We can do anything we want with our majority, and just watch us: we will.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMembers opposite said they look forward to this legislation coming before the select committee. Well, here is a prediction: they won\u2019t make a single meaningful change from anybody other than those who agree with them or are members of a union. Anybody that comes forward from the business community, a small business in New Zealand that has a relationship with their workers, who looks after their workers, who invests in them, who pays them well, who doesn\u2019t believe the Government needs to be involved in that relationship\u2014members opposite, with their majority on the committee, won\u2019t listen; won\u2019t make a single change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation creates mandatory union deals around the country. In fact, it\u2019s worse than that. It mandates union deals around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0428aafa8b1458ca2b6a468ca564fa9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It does. Of course it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801fee388f094bdc9db778739860ce70\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Now, what\u2019s happened from the very back of the Government benches is a whole lot of noise there. Any moment now we will hear from them. \u201CBut this is a fair pay agreement.\u201D, they will say, and they know that because it\u2019s in the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWell, many, many years ago in Africa, a president of a country\u2014President Mobutu\u2014ran Africa. He said it was democratic and it wasn\u2019t. They had one of the worst economies in the world. Mr Mobutu every year would decide how much people were paid. The country was called Zaire. Then one day the world started putting pressure on him to say \u201CBut you aren\u2019t democratic and this isn\u2019t working, you deciding by yourself.\u201D Why can\u2019t businesses and employees have a relationship where they can negotiate and decide how they will work together? Do you know what President Mobutu did? He changed the name of Zaire to the Democratic Republic of Congo. To members opposite, here\u2019s a hint: if you have to put \u201Cdemocratic\u201D in the name of your country, you\u2019re not democratic. If you have to put \u201Cfair\u201D in the name of a piece of legislation when it comes to pay agreements, it is not fair to anybody other than making it easier for your union mates. That\u2019s it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo the unions find it hard to go around the country and to get New Zealanders to sign up and pay them a fee, and if they don\u2019t get those fees, it\u2019s very hard for them to provide money by way of campaign funding to the Labour Party. So together, when they were in Opposition, they came up with a plan and said, \u201CWhat we should do is go back to the time\u201D\u2014and we heard this from a Green MP\u2014\u201Cwhen 70 percent of the country was covered by bargaining rounds, which meant every year the Government would have meetings for a moment with the sector, and for hours and hours and hours with the unions, and they would come up with the pay rates and all of the conditions, and they would announce it from the Beehive, and it would be rubber-stamped and put everywhere.\u201D Well, this is what this legislation will do: take us back to the days where union-mandated agreement and deals are rolled out for employees and employers who have a perfectly good working relationship and they don\u2019t want the Government involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThink of it this way. We have restaurants and bars up and down New Zealand who have struggled as a result of the restrictions this Government has placed upon them in the last two years. We heard yesterday the Prime Minister say, \u201CActually, because we haven\u2019t invested properly or sorted out the health system, those restaurants and bars\u2014actually, we\u2019re staying in red. They still need restrictions on them for at least another month.\u201D They\u2019re doing it tough. They\u2019re having to bear the costs of the Government\u2019s inaction and not actually when the Government hasn\u2019t sorted out the health system. All right? So it\u2019s very hard for them. They\u2019ve taken on debt. Many of them have closed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another guarantee: 10 percent of that workforce, or 1,000 workers, will be approached by union officials, who will get them to sign a paper, and restaurants and bars will be one of\u2014probably not the first, but one of\u2014the first that will have to go through these mandated union deals legislation, the so-called fair pay agreement. For the restaurants in downtown Auckland, who continue to struggle, there will be a decision about how much they have to pay and what they have to do when it comes to leave and whether or not, if there is a 10-minute rest break, the employer and the employee can reach agreement to take it now or take it later or finish 10 minutes early. Well, actually, under the Government, they won\u2019t allow that. The Government will make an announcement of what is happening for the whole country when it comes to the payment for those restaurants and those bars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut the legislation has been changed slightly to say, \u201CNo, no, there can be regional differences.\u201D So if you drive in your car south of Auckland and you get to the bottom of the Bombay Hills and you see the sign that says you\u2019re entering Waikato, there could be different rules set by the Government for there\u2014another area where the restaurants and bars have done it tough. It makes no sense at all for the Government to be that involved in the business of employees and employers that is working well and doesn\u2019t need Government involvement in it, with the exception that this is a Government that thinks it knows best. They\u2019ve brought their ideology here. That passion that was anger is because these guys have always wanted to do this, and they will take New Zealand backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EJust think of it this way. Think about what\u2019s happened to the New Zealand economy\u2014putting COVID aside for a moment\u2014over the last two years. We\u2019ve lost the America\u2019s Cup. That\u2019s a billion dollars, when the American cup is held here, for the tourism sector alone. It\u2019s gone. It\u2019s out the door. Do you know why? Because the Minister pledged just $31 million and a whole lot of other stuff in kind that would have to happen anyway, and that deal walked, and it\u2019s overseas now. Thirty-one million dollars\u2014that pledge is less than the Government spent on the Auckland cycle bridge they\u2019re never going to build, which was $50 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThink about The Lord of the Rings that\u2019s no longer made in New Zealand by Amazon, the tens of thousands of jobs over a decade or more that will be lost. Think about the high number of people that are on benefits in New Zealand today, more than actually before COVID, yet we have record low levels of unemployment. Think about the cost of living and how hard it is for working Kiwis to get ahead\u2014not because of what they\u2019re paid, because there are people that are earning $80,000 or $90,000 a year that can\u2019t afford to live. They too have to choose between paying their rent and their bills or feeding their kids, because of the huge cost increases that have been piled on consumers in New Zealand through businesses who have had to pass it on, because this is a Government whose ideology says, \u201CWe know best.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIf there is a problem to fix here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257abc9a0993d479d91797dd8f628ee69\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote these talking points?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f107131025493ebb69a53f56960490\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote the talking points? I\u2019m writing these myself, and therein lies the issue\u2014therein lies the issue. These guys over there don\u2019t actually care about hard-working businesses. They don\u2019t care about New Zealanders that are working that are struggling. They want to drive this ideology through, and they\u2019re disguising it behind that word \u201Cfair\u201D when it is anything but fair. If they actually, this Government, want to do something about employees who are not being treated properly, focus on them alone and the employers who are not treating them well. Don\u2019t come up with a blanket rule that says, \u201CWhether you are a good employer or not or you have a good relationship with your employee or not, we are coming after you because we are a Government that knows best.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe final point here is actually when this was raised before the last election and in this House previously, the Prime Minister backtracked very quickly. She said, \u201CYou don\u2019t have to worry. There\u2019ll only be one or two industries that probably would be part of this.\u201D Well, if that was the case, why would they need to put in place a rule under this legislation that says the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) would be the gatekeeper of which fair pay agreement negotiations go ahead unless they were concerned that they would be swamped by five or 10 or 15 of these all at once? There would be no reason otherwise for MBIE to do that, to be the gatekeeper. What that suggests to me is when the Prime Minister stood in this House and she was on TV saying to the public, \u201CYou don\u2019t have to worry, because this is going to be fair and there will only be a few.\u201D, she either hadn\u2019t been advised properly by her advisers or she wilfully knew she wanted to kick it for touch so they didn\u2019t have to talk about it before an election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis will harm the New Zealand economy. It won\u2019t help workers the way that this Government says it will. If there\u2019s a problem to be fixed, they should actually focus on fixing that problem rather than burdening hard-working small businesses of New Zealand who treat their workers very, very well. It is not a good piece of legislation. We will be opposing it and we will be repealing it when we get to Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8b5464f839f4099b793bcef9634d69d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8b5464f839f4099b793bcef9634d69d\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Salaam alaikum, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a final call on this historic bill, but, boy, the hatred and the disrespect for working people. When you trash unions, you\u2019re talking about 300,000 workers, Mr Simpson, across the country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ae287cc24b4eabaa62988336ff6367\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I know it\u2019s not for me to say, but I didn\u2019t hear you as the Speaker say that once to this member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022301ced101c8d47a0bc6143648bcbcec0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220facfdbf942c46098316ae32b9581c3b\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER\u003C/span\u003E: But none the less, for us on this side of the House, it\u2019s an historic day\u2014we will be celebrating it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThere is an old M\u0101ori whakatauk\u012B which says: \u201CHe r\u0101kau w\u0101hi rua he kai n\u0101 te ahi.\u201D [A tree split in two is food for the fire: unity is strength.], which means, if workers are united, they will win, improving working conditions. If they are split into a number of small groups, they will lose working conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAnd this brings us to why collective bargaining in this country is so slow and ineffective. Why is the Government forced to do the heavy lifting around lifting minimum wage when, historically, this country has relied on collective bargaining to carry out the role of the wage distribution. The answer is in the report of the Fair Pay Agreement Working Group, chaired by the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, who said, \u201CNew Zealand sits at the far end of the decentralised spectrum. Although our current system permits voluntary sector bargaining, in practice most bargaining takes place at the enterprise level, although there is some bargaining among groups of employers within a sector, through a MECA.\u201D multi-employer collective agreements (MECA) are mainly found within the public sector\u2014mainly in health and education. Workers have tried consistently over and over again to bargain, but they failed. They failed, but this bill is going to improve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThe introduction of this bill makes the same point as Mr Bolger did. While New Zealand\u2019s labour market has some strengths, it also has a systematic weakness. This includes a significant prevalence of jobs in inadequate working conditions, low wages, and low labour productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThe leader of the National Party has publicly spoken about how low-paid workers are having it tough, but he won\u2019t say whether he supports the minimum wage increase, and he doesn\u2019t have any plans on whether he allows workers to be able to negotiate fair wages. The National Party considers low-paid workers who clean our toilets, our offices, keep us safe, drive our buses, look after our elders, bottom feeders\u2014what a shame. The National Party have been beating drums about the cost of living in the last few weeks over and over, yet they are opposing any major step that\u2019s designed to help make low-paid workers lives easy. What a hypocrisy. The National Party has no plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ELabour supports the regular increase in the minimum wage and through our fair pay agreement system is taking pressure off large minimum wage increases by getting industry, employers, and unions to negotiate their minimum working conditions in low-paid industries. Fair pay agreements will allow employers and unions to be able to negotiate minimum conditions that are appropriate for their industry and to help good quality employers from being undermined by ratbags who pay as low as they can and treat their workers as expendable. Our workers are not expendable; they\u2019re valuable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this bill are people\u2014real people, hard-working people, but yet for years and years undervalued, underpaid, and overlooked. Our security guards, our cleaners, our bus drivers, supermarket workers\u2014these are some of the hardest-working people. Every day, they go on doing 50, 60, 70 hours just to make ends meet, yet they fail because they\u2019re not getting paid fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ECompetitive tendering is driving down wages. This was stopped by Part 6A but then companies started tendering on the basis of putting more work into the same hours. Malia, I\u2019m going to quote her. Malia to me is not just any worker that I have seen her story on the media, we have worked together. Malia, myself, and Mele have taken a plane to Auckland to negotiate and bargain with employers. After three weeks of hard negotiation, the only thing we got was 18c\u201418c. Malia said, \u201CEvery time we change the contract, it will always be our hours that will be cut down. Hours cut down, still more work to do.\u201D And Mele: \u201CWhen a contract is tendered, the new company comes in. They all come with their price. They have to cut something to make a margin of profit in there, and they look at who? At cleaners. They cut our hours, yet the work remains the same, even sometimes more.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EMalia, Mele, and many other friends today\u2014my colleagues and the Minister mentioned many names\u2014they are real people. They are not just a number. They are not just numbers to be dismissed or to just muck around with. They are real workers who are making a difference in this country every day, and the last two years have showed us that. While all of us stayed home, keeping safe, Malia, Mele, and their friends would go on every day and get their work done, and often putting their lives at risk and the lives of their families at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAnd today, the Labour Party and this Government has recognised their hard work, and we have decided to put an end to the misery and the unfairness. Today, these people have a new hero. We\u2019re talking about thousands of people throughout this country, and that hero is called the Hon Michael Wood, who in the last few months went out through the country and virtually engaged with them, he listened to them, he respected them, and, to them, Michael is their hero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EFinally, what I wanted to say is that it\u2019s OK to disagree on things. It\u2019s OK to say no to things, but the disrespect we have seen today towards our hard-working cleaners, bus drivers, supermarket workers, and the many more\u2014300,000 people today have been disrespected over and over again by various speakers in this House, and that is not OK. We can do better. We can disagree, we can be political, we can disagree on things, but disrespecting the hard-working people, and their only wrongdoing is they\u2019re hard workers\u2014nothing more, nothing less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EToday is a good day, and I look forward to having this bill through the select committee process, which I will be fortunate enough to be sitting on with my colleagues and our hard-working chair, Marja Lubeck. And we will be looking forward to engaging with the public, with submitters, and we will be making amendments if needed\u2014if needed. But this bill as it is is a good bill\u2014it\u2019s good enough. And finally, I\u2019d like to thank everyone who contributed today, including those who shamefully insulted the hard-working people. I appreciate you. I\u2019m not going to call you names, just like you did, but today is a good day. I highly, highly, highly commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226381b2cbbfdd49d795eb3f5bdf780aa0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fair Pay Agreements Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000364\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223550f17a5c1342be8b690484a49b26e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223550f17a5c1342be8b690484a49b26e0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Fair Pay Agreements Bill be considered by the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edd2488384b3409ba1625f0b07471484\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d2a73e2eb2f447789631d52783cc984\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00228e4800bd0c864e04814d476e86b3ef1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e4800bd0c864e04814d476e86b3ef1a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded to the passing through of all stages of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of the Government\u2019s response to the rapid increase in fuel prices that\u2019s had an impact on households and businesses across the country following Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine. Its intention is to reduce road-user charges to provide equivalent relief to motorists with a diesel vehicle that is equivalent to the reduction that has been achieved through the 25c reduction to fuel excise duty, as amended by Order in Council in March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe need for the legislation is immediate. It\u2019s essential that it\u2019s enacted as soon as possible, under urgency, so that its provisions can have maximum effect. It\u2019s essential that there is a period between enactment and the beginning of the temporary reduction period so that essential administration can be put in place by Waka Kotahi to ensure the smooth roll-out of the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222a2f7455ab0c4329b62f3394fe86ba10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272d4460a1c4143acb770f61ce062a9bf\u0022\u003ERoad User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b191f30075ad447dbfd44518a0fe1b73\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022719648943f7b4e408d9b2c660d06977d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022719648943f7b4e408d9b2c660d06977d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c827e9eddc4ee4b2c732fd2602a906\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House, and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277f1679fb9f149cc95f5be8c0cc1ec21\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWell, we\u2019ve just witnessed what I believe they call a bold move. That is the Opposition\u2014or certainly the National Party Opposition\u2014attempting to slow down the Government\u2019s efforts to ensure that we provide relief to motorists who are facing increased transport costs as a result of international pressures. I do acknowledge other parties across the House for their support in according urgency, and am very surprised that the National Party wants to delay that relief going to those people who pay road-user charges (RUCs). I\u2019m sure that they\u2019ll be up to explaining that to the heavy vehicles sector and other diesel users, who might be a little bit surprised by that bold move by the National Party and their new transport spokesperson. But good on them; I wish them luck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOn 14 March, the Government moved swiftly and announced reductions to petrol excise duty by 25c per litre. This was in response to significant increases in fuel prices that have been experienced here in New Zealand and around the world. These pressures have been experienced internationally for two significant reasons. The very first is well known to members of the House and people across the country, and that is Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine, which has put serious pressure on international fuel prices. We saw them spike extremely quickly following the development of tensions and then Russia\u2019s illegal and abhorrent actions in that country. That conflict is likely to persist for some time, and we see that those pressures will therefore persist for some time for people who use petrol across our economy and our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut secondly, the global recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic has, generally speaking, seen demand for petrol around the world exceed what was expected at this time. So the combination of both increased demand and a shock to supply has seen those petrol prices really shoot up all around the world, and we have seen Governments around the world look to address this in a range of ways. Our Government, of course, has been very focused on the broader set of issues that New Zealanders face around cost increases. That\u2019s why some of our recent decisions around increases to the minimum wage, the 1 April increases to a range of Working for Families payments and other payments, have been really helpful in terms of helping to take the edge off some of those pressures that people are facing. But we have been acutely aware of the sharp increase in transport costs in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe 25c reduction to fuel excise duty that we put into effect\u2014and I think the date, from memory, was 14 March\u2014we decided at Cabinet that day, I signed off the regulation that afternoon, Her Excellency the Governor-General then confirmed it through Order in Council, and it took effect from midnight that night. It was turned around very quickly indeed and it has seen the biggest fall in petrol prices that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has ever observed in their monitoring of petrol prices. I\u2019ve had some incredibly good feedback from New Zealanders right across the country about how that has helped. It hasn\u2019t taken away all of the cost pressures that New Zealanders face, but they\u2019ve seen the Government responding and making a positive change that has really helped people with some of those back-pocket costs that we know they\u2019re facing. It\u2019s worth noting\u2014I\u2019ll come back to the cost a little bit later, but that has had a real impact for someone, for example, filling up their tank, a 60-litre tank once a week, that\u2019s a $15 saving immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAt the same time, of course, we also moved to reduce public transport costs. They\u2019ve been halved for that three-month period as well. And again, there\u2019s fantastic feedback about that; it\u2019s making a difference. It\u2019s reducing the cost pressures and giving people a really great opportunity to give public transport a go. This bill complements those measures and brings in reductions to road-user charges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt is just worth confirming\u2014for people who don\u2019t spend as much time in the minutiae of how these things work\u2014the difference between fuel excise duty and road-user charges. For people who do purchase diesel, the road-user charge is not, effectively, built into the petrol charge like a fuel excise duty that people who fill up with 91 or 96 have\u2014you know, when you fill up your tank with 91 or 96, the cost of the fuel excise duty is, effectively, built into that, and it\u2019s a charge per litre of petrol that that person purchases. For those people who use diesel, the road-user charge is purchased in advance. It\u2019s not a part of the diesel price and it\u2019s not a per litre price, so it\u2019s much more complicated. It\u2019s set based on distance and weight, and there are, in fact, about 200 different rates of road-user charge that apply to different vehicles depending on their weight and sometimes on the way that axel load is distributed. So it\u2019s a much more complex process to be able to apply a reduction across road-user charges. The decision that Cabinet made was to apply an equivalent reduction in those road-user charges for people who do have to purchase RUC. Effectively, when you do the maths, the 25c reduction on fuel excise duty works out to about a 36 percent reduction. So what is reflected in the piece of legislation that is before the House is a 36 percent reduction that applies across those 200 or so rates of road-user charge. So there\u2019ll be a proportionate reduction no matter what kind of road-user charge licence a person purchases, whether it\u2019s a light vehicle, a heavy vehicle, a bus, or whatever it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also the case that, as compared to fuel excise duty, which can just be changed through Order in Council, it is not as simple for the road-user charge, and that\u2019s why this piece of legislation is before the House. There was a protection that\u2019s built into the Road User Charges Act, which sees that before any change is made to a road-user charge rate, there must be 42 days of notice that is provided. Now, primarily, that is provided to protect the sector and give notice where there might be increases to the rate of road-user charges. It wasn\u2019t particularly contemplated, I don\u2019t think, at that time that there might be a significant decrease of this kind. So if we want to provide the benefit of the reduction in road-user charge, we do need this legislative intervention if we want to bring it in as soon as possible\u2014and certainly earlier than that 42 days of notice that we have to provide under the current Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo, effectively, what the bill will do is it will shortcut that 42 days of notice that I\u2019ve just outlined, and it also includes provisions which allow us to apply that 36 percent reduction across the whole suite of rates that are otherwise set in regulations. It is just worth commenting on what the quantum of reduction is here and how it will benefit New Zealanders. For someone who purchases 1,000 kilometres of road-user charge for a typical light vehicle, the cost will go down from $76 to $49\u2014that\u2019s a $27 saving. For a person who was purchasing 5,000 kilometres, it would be a $135 saving, so that is a real contribution to assisting people and tackling some of those pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat is also built into the bill are safeguards in order to prevent unreasonable and excessive purchasing of road-user charges at the reduced rate that will apply for the three-month period. The three-month period described in the bill kicks in from 21 April, and the intention of this legislation is that people are able to purchase at the reduced rate for a three-month period. The intention is not that people can load up and purchase at the increased rate for a longer period. Now, we do not expect that New Zealanders would be likely to do that, but it is important that we do have some basic safeguard that is put into the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo, firstly, modelled on an existing provision in the Road User Charges Act, the bill does include a provision that any road-user charges for a heavy vehicle that is purchased while the reduced rate is in place become invalid one month after the temporary reduction period. So that\u2019s a provision that\u2019s already in the Road User Charges Act that continues to apply to this reduced rate for the purposes of heavy vehicles. That\u2019s quite a strong safeguard. That means that the heavy sector is not able to, effectively, load up at the lower rate. I wouldn\u2019t expect that to happen, but there\u2019s the protection that\u2019s in place there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill draws on the existing assessment provisions in the Road User Charges Act, giving Waka Kotahi, as the collector, the power to issue assessments and invoices for purchases that they deem to be excessive or unreasonable or abusive of the scheme\u2019s intent. This is really important in terms of the integrity. It will mean that Waka Kotahi can review those purchases and\u2014taking reasonable factors into account if they do believe that there\u2019s been excessive or unreasonable purchasing\u2014they\u2019ll be able to issue an invoice so that that person does not receive the benefit of that unreasonable or excessive purchasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased that the Government is able to bring this bill to the House. It is part of our response to the cost of living pressures that New Zealanders are facing. We are moving forward quickly to provide that relief. We have already, through a range of measures to fuel excise duty, reduced public transport, and a range of other supports that we\u2019ve provided. This will be an important complement to that, and I look forward to its swift passage through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022dac6a03fce7e4120be16b4124da3425f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dac6a03fce7e4120be16b4124da3425f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. The National Party, while we will be supporting this piece of legislation, will not be supporting the urgency motion, because, guess what? This was policy on the hoof by a Government reacting to a bad poll, trying to find a way to ease the cost of living. And guess what? This policy does not do what New Zealanders actually need it to do and does not go far enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Minister talked about this legislation being needed urgently to deal with the 42-day requirement for notice of new road-user charge (RUC) rates. Well, I tell you what\u2014I\u2019ve just done the calculation and this policy was announced on 14 March and it won\u2019t be implemented under this legislation until 21 April, and that is 38 days. So all that we\u2019re doing here is saving four days. What\u2019s the Minister been doing for the last three weeks? If this was policy that was well-thought-through and was something that was actually being seriously considered in response to the war in Ukraine, the Minister would have had this legislation before Parliament weeks ago to actually make sure that New Zealanders could get relief at the petrol pump and could get relief if they drive diesel vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELet me also put some other dates out there for the Minister. The explanatory note of the bill says that this bill is responding to the fuel price increase around the world following Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine. Well, I just looked at the calendar and the Russian invasion started on 24 February, and the announcement wasn\u2019t made until 14 March. Well, that\u2019s about another 20 days. But what happened in between those two dates? On 10 March, out came a very bad poll for the Government. So what are we doing here? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note of the bill says the bill is about responding to the fuel crisis around the world. Actually, this was about responding to a poll that had National ahead of Labour for the first time in two years, and this Government was desperately looking in their drawer for something they could pull out, and they said, \u201COh, I know what we\u2019ll do. We\u2019ll make an announcement and then we\u2019ll think about the details later.\u201D Well, I tell you, this piece of legislation\u2014whilst we support providing this relief to taxpayers because they deserve it and they are suffering from a cost of living crisis\u2014does not go the distance that\u2019s required to actually address those cost of living pressures. This is a temporary piece of legislation. It is something that only deals with the issue in a very small manner but doesn\u2019t actually address the fundamental issues that New Zealanders are facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ERents are up $150 per week under this Government. That didn\u2019t happen because of the Ukraine crisis and the war in Ukraine. Fruit and vegetable prices are up. Inflation is at 5.9 percent, and that was before the invasion of Ukraine\u2014that happened and now they\u2019re saying, \u201CWell, actually, we\u2019re going to blame it all on Ukraine.\u201D Well, this Government needs to take some responsibility. This cost of living crisis has happened under their watch, and they need to take some responsibility and actually address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EHow long did it take for this Government to even say the word \u201Ccrisis\u201D? Ages. They said, \u201CYes, there are challenges facing New Zealanders, there are concerns, and we are very concerned. There are pressures facing New Zealanders.\u201D But they weren\u2019t even prepared to acknowledge that there was a cost of living crisis facing New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab5c96814ca747dcbf4d983161d44706\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d3dbee753b449d8e1ab40ec222b66f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Because they caused most of it\u2014that is the real reason. Their policies have caused New Zealanders to be paying for this cost of living crisis. We heard the Minister talk about how the rapid increase in fuel costs is a result of the war in Ukraine. Well, I tell you what\u2014two years ago the cost of a litre of 91 was under $2.00. Then it crept up to close to $2.80, and then we had the war in Ukraine, which tipped it over $3. These were not pressures that built overnight. These were pressures that were building on hard-working, middle-income families and low-income families for many, many months prior and this Government ignored them until that poll came through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut, of course, then they made the announcement and they had to work through the detail. And it took them three weeks from the announcement until yesterday and legislation actually coming before Parliament. It took three whole weeks to work through the details. They first had to work out what is an equivalent reduction in RUC rates as we\u2019ve done for the petrol excise reduction. Well, they did the petrol excise one very quickly, because the legislation allows for that. They then took a number of days just working out what the same percentage was. We had to wait over a week for a press release just to say the percentage is a 36 percent reduction. So why did we not have legislation then, at that point, brought to the House to actually deal with the issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got a number of other issues, and the National Party will be bringing these issues out throughout this debate on this bill as we do not believe they have been addressed by this piece of legislation. The announcement was made on 14 March, but people who drive diesel vehicles still have to wait till 21 April to be able to get their discounted RUC rate. They have to wait a total of 38 days. There\u2019s no retrospective ability for them to make an application. What if they went and purchased their RUC in between those two days? Some people, particularly trucking firms, are only able to have a maximum of one month, as the Minister has said, before they have to pay the next bill. In that 38-day period, they\u2019ve had to go load up with a whole lot more RUCs. They don\u2019t get the reduction. If this is such an emergency and an urgent issue and the Government is trying to make out that they\u2019re responding urgently to the crisis that is happening, why are they forcing some parts of the roading sector to not have the opportunity to wait for these reduced fees to come through, and why does this legislation not allow them to make an application to have a refund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe also note that this piece of legislation gives the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) a whole lot more power to now go around and work out whether someone is purchasing excessive or unreasonable numbers of kilometres on their RUCs. What does excessive or unreasonable kilometres mean? There no definition of what excessive or unreasonable means. It basically says that the NZTA will have the power to, effectively, determine what they think is excessive or unreasonable, taking into account the objective of the temporary reduction scheme, taking into account how the person uses it. How many people are going to be employed by NZTA to run around and make sure that everyone who\u2019s been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474b57af5118485db558547c34fc539b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: With a clipboard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c026e039b8744a59c7a82753a24713b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of clipboards\u2014right. I can see them with their clipboards, checking to see\u2014\u201COh, no, Scott Simpson, you\u2019re very good. You drive an EV so you\u2019re not captured.\u201D But they\u2019ll be making sure that they have a clipboard and they check: \u201COh, no, you\u2019ve got another 500 kilometres this month.\u201D, or \u201CYou\u2019ve got 1,000 kilometres in the last three months. That must be excessive. We\u2019re going to have to put you through a complicated formula, which is noted in the bill.\u201D I think it\u2019s (a \u2013 b) x (c \u2013 d) = e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e745a9094940fe8fefd9e76fcfd110\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the old one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a6583019ad45baa879745a4d2518a2\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: So there we are\u2014the old formula. They\u2019ll work you through a formula to work out whether you have exceeded the \u201Cunreasonable\u201D test that the Minister has put into this piece of legislation. And the Minister will have I don\u2019t know how many people with clipboards running around and making sure they review everyone\u2019s RUC purchases over the next three months to ensure that they are not being unreasonable or excessive in how many kilometres of RUCs they are purchasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe National Party will be looking at these issues. We\u2019ll be asking the questions that we won\u2019t even have a short select committee period to address. We\u2019ll be asking questions around why people who may have had to have purchased within that 38-day period will not have the opportunity to get a refund, and whether 36 percent is actually an equivalent. We know that 36 percent is effectively the same percentage reduction, but some people may use a lot of fuel but not travel that many miles, particularly if it\u2019s a trucking firm where the amount of fuel in relation to how many kilometres they do is not actually an equivalent measure, and so whether they are actually getting an equivalent reduction is something that should be questioned and looked into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe need to make sure that the assessment and this extra regulation is not being over-burdensome and regulatory. So we will be supporting this piece of legislation. We don\u2019t believe it goes far enough. We don\u2019t believe this Government is listening to New Zealanders and understanding the cost of living crisis that New Zealanders are facing, but at least they are doing something small which will help in a small way. So we can support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b391ac01135d43d8ac8648b75d9a24cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b391ac01135d43d8ac8648b75d9a24cd\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I was going to suggest that that speaker Simeon Brown get out more, and, if he were to do so, he would understand that there is actually a war going on in Ukraine. It\u2019s a war that is actually impacting on most of the world and certainly impacting on the price of oil, and that\u2019s really what we\u2019re here about today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAs a Government that actually cares about the costs being imposed by that war and other issues like supply chain issues\u2014and I\u2019ll also say that that member might remember that just as there\u2019s a shortage of container ships in the world, there\u2019s a shortage of containers in the world, all of which is bringing around the price rises that New Zealanders are facing. But, actually, what I should say, at the same time I was going to suggest that that member get out more, is he actually needs to stay in his office a little longer and read the bill, because some of the actual points he brought up are addressed in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EJust before coming to speak here today, I rang a contracting friend of mine who has got quite a big fleet of diesel vehicles. He was unaware of this legislation, but he was quite pleasantly surprised, although he was a little concerned that he had just purchased quite a few kilometres for various vehicles in his fleet\u2014although those listening at home should know that you don\u2019t buy a bill or road-user charges, or RUCs for your fleet. But you still have to buy them for individual vehicles, although organisations try to get it so that they can get all of this done at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI was able to reassure him that those miles that he\u2019d already purchased that had built up, he was going to be able to get an overlap licence for them, and that is dealt with in the bill. So if he has 1,000 kilometres in the bank, so to speak, for the period of this he can actually purchase new RUCs, or road-user charges, at the new fee or the new sum, and so he\u2014in his case, it\u2019s a him\u2014will not actually lose at all. So can I suggest to that member that some of his concerns may actually be alleviated were he to actually sit down and read the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis is actually also a bit of a catch-up, and there are always catch-ups. One thing I do enjoy about being a member of Parliament is one learns about the systems. We dig down into how these things actually work. I was well aware of what RUCs were. In fact, I recall being with a group of farmers, and there was a young English farm worker who had come over. These farmers were discussing RUCs and the prices of them, and he actually said, \u201CDon\u2019t you guys talk about anything else but rugby?\u201D So we actually had to point out to him that there were other things and that RUCs did have another meaning in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis, of course, is quite appropriate because, of course, this is something that is going to really be an advantage to much of the rural sector, many of whom do drive diesel vehicles and will actually get this discount. For those who are a little afraid that the previous reduction of 25c per litre in gas wasn\u2019t going to apply to them, they can now be part of these reductions as well, so they will actually be beneficiaries of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELook, this is a very good piece of legislation. It is a little more complicated, because one thing is that it was relatively easy just to reduce the price of fuel at the pump by reducing the tax. It has been a lot more complicated, and, as the Minister of Transport pointed out in his speech, there are different ways in which companies and individuals can pay their RUCs. So we had to make sure that they aligned so that there wasn\u2019t going to be an advantage to one particular group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn considering this, there\u2019s also one group that\u2019s going to be quite interesting. As Waka Kotahi and those who administer this know, there is quite an industry in winding back clocks, or winding back the road-user charge mechanisms, and I just wonder whether an unintended advantage of this is that those individuals who habitually wind back the clocks\u2014some of them even wind them too far. I\u2019m well aware of someone who wound his clock back beyond the price of the previous purchase, which was pointed out to him by those selling the RUCs at the time. But I wondered whether an unintended consequence of this is that we may not have those wind-backs happening for at least the period of the three months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis is a very good piece of legislation. It does ensure the fairness that we on this side of the House are determined to bring about. It means that a section of our society, bearing in mind that this also coincided with a reduction in public transport costs\u2014the halving of public transport costs, which, of course, ensures that those who don\u2019t have vehicles or who are not habitual vehicle users actually can be part of ensuring that this across-the-board decrease in the cost of living can be shared by all, which, again, is another advantage of this related piece of legislation. So I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da07af5ce2b44972a76175c8b590d44b\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223a492352d0be496fb0957a4ee1bf709a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a492352d0be496fb0957a4ee1bf709a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! With apologies, before I take the next speaker, could any members who wish to join the debate remotely please seek a call by indicating that in the chat function. If members do that in good time, then it does add to the proceedings of the House. Apologies for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00227b792abae69446c6a0fda0f292e873bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b792abae69446c6a0fda0f292e873bf\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I am seeking a call in person. It\u2019s a privilege to rise and discuss this bill on behalf of the National Party, because I think it\u2019s fair to say that at first blush, yes, we support it\u2014ultimately anything that will reduce costs to New Zealanders in a time of cost of living crisis. But let\u2019s not forget that it\u2019s not rose tinted. Labour does not like people who drive cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe whole point of the road-user charge is for that charge to go into transport infrastructure. And of course, if you do have a car, whether it be petrol or diesel, you would like roads to drive your car on. This Labour Government will not build roads. And so any relief to hard-working commuters\u2014especially those in regional New Zealand and South Island New Zealand who are sick of their road-user charges being siphoned off to pay for pet public transport projects in Auckland. So how good is it that New Zealanders, and especially regional New Zealanders\u2014because let\u2019s not forget: on one hand, they give it back, but another, they take it away, because a lot of regional New Zealanders are getting a double whammy with the ute tax that\u2019s just been brought in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo when you look at the explanatory note on this bill\u2014we hear about international pressures and international drivers, but where I\u2019d like to start with is Infometrics economist Brad Olsen saying, \u201CInflation isn\u2019t an offshore problem that New Zealand is caught up in.\u201D Because we know, on this side of this House, what the response was from this Government. It was, in fact, a gentleman by the name of Christopher Luxon, the Leader of the National Party, who, on a Sunday, clearly outlined in his state of the nation speech the cost of living crisis that was going on for many New Zealanders. On this side of the House we listen. We get out of our offices and talk to hard-working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258bfd73ac0294c1aa82677e4227110f7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc2168ac1db4f28a1b1ac8be78aa15c\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: And they laugh. But of course, on the Monday after that Sunday, the Prime Minister was on The AM Show, looking down the barrel of a camera and she couldn\u2019t bring herself to say the word \u201Ccrisis\u201D. Then what happened? There was a poll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2be527008894e388ede3e0674ae8952\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226548e4309f0d492e91aa3f9e78c89f77\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. And all of a sudden there was a flap. And, of course, the top minds of the Labour caucus got together\u2014there wouldn\u2019t have been many of them\u2014and they said, \u201CWhat are we going to do?\u201D And all of a sudden they dreamed up: \u201COh, maybe there is a crisis going on.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a19f24b993bc4629a959f8a294d2c9e4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: They consult Helen White.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5cee1d9d19432c98c244d2227a8907\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to acknowledge Helen White. It\u2019s good to see the backbenchers finally speaking up and talking about what they\u2019re hearing from the people that vote, their constituents. And so what we had in this bill, and it\u2019s clearly outlined in the explanatory note where they talk about international drivers\u2014but what we know, on this side of the House, is that, in fact it\u2019s actually this Labour Government splashing the cash. Because, of course, what we know is in the last quarter of last year, domestic inflation was higher than international inflation. So it\u2019s domestic inflation that\u2019s driving this cost of living crisis in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo yes, it is good we\u2019re giving New Zealanders a relief in petrol excise tax and, quite rightly, a corresponding relief here in road-user charges (RUCs). But I would have some caution because\u2014why don\u2019t we trust people who are purchasing RUCs? There\u2019s a big emphasis here that we need some system to supervise them, because of course, as the Minister says, we don\u2019t want people stockpiling. Are there any monitors on the forecourts at the moment, monitoring whether petrol users are stockpiling the petrol they\u2019re buying? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut, of course, in this bill, we\u2019re going to enact\u2014oh, what was it called? A RUC monitor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc089b5e29e545a3bf55e2dac243fbc1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3546882b2db4d64a672a1015f0c33e9\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022549323148b324481bc4bbe3c09677f19\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A clipboard and white coat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd32a687367445cbd8ffed4b0a40f6d\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Because what we know in New Zealand is we need more bureaucrats in Wellington, don\u2019t we. Here we go\u2014a RUC monitor who\u2019s going to assess whether the hard-working diesel owners are doing the right thing. And what I would say is that here we are, under urgency, spending the time of the House\u2014at great cost and resource\u2014passing this bill. Yes, the end result will be good for hard-working New Zealanders. But, as my learned colleague Simeon Brown quite rightly pointed out, it pretty much saves three or four days. That\u2019s the reality at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAs my great friend and learned colleague from Invercargill, Penny Simmonds would say, this Government couldn\u2019t even run a bath. These guys can\u2019t deliver. They got caught out\u2014policy on the hoof. And I say well done to New Zealanders who actually exercised their democratic right and said, in fact, that if were to have an election tomorrow, we wouldn\u2019t vote these guys back in. They said they\u2019d vote National back in. You know why? Because we listen to New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022224a57f190d1443e88b2fee2effdc186\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I do invite the member to come more closely to the bill. [Interruption] And I don\u2019t need any help, thank you. While I note that under the general policy statement the policy goal is to offset some of the price increases through reducing road taxes, that is a relatively narrow general policy statement. Context is important, I understand that, but I do invite all members to stick within the context of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd73374e4c7d4311aa0e4ac182784072\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for that clarification. And as we talked about, with our transport spokesperson, Simeon Brown, there are some questions we do want to ask around this draft legislation, as it is going through urgency, especially around the principle of backdating. So we have heard from one Labour MP\u2014Greg O\u2019Connor\u2014who talked about the ability for an overlap licence. But it would be good to interrogate this further, and we will get the ability to do this in the committee of the whole House stage, because, of course, we won\u2019t have a select committee process to go through to hear from heavy vehicle users. I\u2019m quite happy to be wrong, if the Minister can correct me, but I thought the overlap licence was only for heavy vehicles. So what will happen for light vehicles? I think that is something that we\u2019ll be able to look at, at further readings as well. Is there a cost for an overlap licence? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve said on this side of the House, we are going to support the bill, but it\u2019s incumbent on us to ensure that we do interrogate the drafting of this bill to ensure the words on the bill are the best fit for New Zealanders. Because what we know is when we look at diesel users, I would argue they are some of the best and hard-working New Zealanders around. God bless diesel car users and this is what we are here to support. Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a10fe8d13f4b6d9ef6c29192954ef9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Diesel turbo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc4771d029d48e589a7626560b8f1d4\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, diesel turbo. All right. I\u2019ve got the feeling there\u2019s going to be a few stories coming up around first diesel cars. Mine was the Hilux Surf, a very good vehicle, I must say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225390c403a23f4da581bbb3592ddf31a7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Still got it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ce66b291b804d95be4cb0598ee31b43\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I haven\u2019t got that. I\u2019ve upgraded to the Toyota RAV4 family car, but that\u2019s OK. Things in life change. I\u2019m sure you can appreciate that, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELook, overall, we want to support this bill because we want hard-working New Zealanders to have more money in their back pocket. But ultimately, as parliamentarians, we want to make sure this bill isn\u2019t an overreach as well. I\u2019ve got some real concerns about what is the role, what are the powers, what are the delegations of a RUC collector in this situation, and what are we signing up to to allow them to be unleashed on our many hard-working diesel driving New Zealanders. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u00223fcc872647ef46409f7a6cdfbeffcba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fcc872647ef46409f7a6cdfbeffcba6\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, kia ora. It gives me great pleasure to speak on this, the first reading of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. And can I just acknowledge that we can still use this function when those in your home have got COVID, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI do want to just point out from the previous speaker, Matt Doocey, around the word \u201Ccrises\u201D. It\u2019s entirely relevant, but in the context of the geopolitical and economic territory in terms of what\u2019s happening in terms of the invasion of Ukraine and, of course, a positive event\u2014and that\u2019s the ongoing recovery from this pandemic that we\u2019re in and the impact on fuel prices across the globe and, of course, in New Zealand. That\u2019s, essentially, why this has come to be. And we\u2019re putting it through today because, as we\u2019ve heard, hard-working New Zealanders want this, they want this now, and this Government has been agile enough to look at a scheme and put it in place. I want to applaud those who have worked hard to get this on the agenda and to get it on very quickly, because I know that from Friday, 1 April through to 30 June, people will be very happy with the cut in fuel excise duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBut also, the funding provided for local government in terms of half-price public transport fares\u2014and I do represent a big core user of public transport in east and south Wellington. So there is general happiness\u2014if we can just fix the cancellations, but that\u2019s through drivers having COVID and just not enough of them. We\u2019ve done it with their wages, and I know that in south-east Wellington, it is a real hit. It has made a big difference. I have the pleasure of keeping in touch with our chair of the regional council, who run bus services\u2014that\u2019s Daran Ponter, and he can confirm in a chat this morning about user patterns and what\u2019s happening around the city, that it\u2019s good news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI have to say that I really do hope that in this\u2014I guess, this three-month period\u2014that we can use it as a pilot, as such, to look at some of that mode shift that\u2019s been long desired, and I know for large urban metros this will, hopefully, have some big impact. I want to just say, too, that the confirmation of the RUC discount does support New Zealanders getting through that global energy crisis. I know that we\u2019ve heard words where it\u2019s unrelated, but it\u2019s entirely related, and this is the sort of action that New Zealanders expect from a hard-working, agile, quick-moving Government who can make changes quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI did pick up that the Opposition is supportive, and that\u2019s important, because what it shows is that this is a good idea. It\u2019s a simple idea; it has some complexity around the road-user charges components, but, all in all, it means that all New Zealanders\u2014whether they own a vehicle or not; being diesel or use public transport as they do in the big cities and other places, of course\u2014it does help them out in the pocket, and that\u2019s what matters most. I know that the road transport industry, who play that vital role in the supply of essential goods across the country, wanted to see a signal from this Government during these challenging times, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve put on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking forward to speaking in the second and third readings and putting this through this evening. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022415d1453b1154a9bb02b165c5a798489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022415d1453b1154a9bb02b165c5a798489\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I\u2019m contributing to this bill on behalf of the Greens tonight, at the last minute on behalf of Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, who, of course, is also filling in for our transport spokesperson, typically Julie Anne Genter. This weekend, out in the electorate, a constituent asked me if I thought that the war in Ukraine was going to lead to many countries and negotiators, internationally, perhaps being less inclined to take action on the reduction of climate-changing emissions. This constituent shared that they had been listening to an academic who had said that in moments when unexpected things happen, there is a tendency from decision makers\u2014that is, politicians across the world\u2014to play it safe, to make no sudden movements, and resort to the tried and true rule book. I answer that this is very much a real risk, but that we only have to look, in fact, at the disruption of COVID-19 to see how many nations and politicians will shirk their responsibility for the slow-moving climate crisis when confronted with another crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe problem that we\u2019ve got so clearly is that when one crisis hits, the others don\u2019t stop hitting. We\u2019ve seen time and again that this Government can and does respond to immediate emergency but is at serious risk of ignoring or neglecting the proverbial boiling frog. Two years ago, this House declared a climate emergency, and, in the name of COVID-19, last year Cabinet decided to delay the introduction of the emissions reduction plan. To the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa38e335a9343d6aa95a0c8b95576a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I invite the member to bring her speech back to the bill which sits before the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bfcabb05ea4998a52d477b057cf942\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Madam Speaker. So this is not the first of the oil or fuel shocks that we have seen. Over the past few decades we\u2019ve seen oil shock after oil shock. In 1973, when oil prices quadrupled between mid-1979 to mid-1980, oil prices rose from US$13 a barrel to US$34. In 1990, they went from US$13 a barrel to US$34 a barrel. Then again, we saw shocks in 2005 through to 2008, and 2010 to 2014. I dare say to any MP in this House who will contribute to this debate tonight\u2014I dare them to tell me that this oil shock of 2022 is the last one that we will see. It cannot be, and none of them can offer that assertion, because we know that the oil market and fossil fuels are inherently volatile. You know what is sustainable, however? It is renewable energy, and that is why the Greens are opposing this bill today. Because whilst we can totally acknowledge the fact that there are increasing cost pressures on New Zealanders\u2014and we have made a real point of the fact that those cost pressures have been disproportionately felt by lower-income New Zealanders who, Statistics New Zealand data bears out, have borne the brunt of double the cost of inflation, in terms of the reality that they are spending the majority of their incomes on essentials on a daily basis\u2014there are real risks and perverse incentives in cutting fuel taxes when in fact we have the opportunity to use other levers, such as boosting incomes for lower income New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe thing about fossil fuels\u2014which is at the core of this bill, in terms of reducing the costs for road-user charges\u2014is that they are formed from literal fossils of plants and animals that lived millions of years ago. Despite decades of commercial and political obfuscation and delay, we have known relatively clearly since the 1960s that, without a shadow of a doubt, burning those fossil fuels contributes to the warming of our atmosphere. We also had an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report that came out only this past weekend, which demonstrated that we must think ahead and act now. We must make sure that we are not creating perverse incentives and feedback loops, such as the Greens are stating are at serious risk of occurring with the passage of this legislation, when alternatives are available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat we are debating tonight is an amendment to road-user charges. It\u2019s important to specify exactly what those are, because the Government\u2019s announcement to respond to fuel supply shocks prompted by, as has already been outlined by other speakers, Russia\u2019s war in Ukraine was twofold and it applies for three months. They announced these fuel tax cuts and half-price public transport costs. Those fuel tax cuts come in two forms. They are petrol excise duties, which are able to be reduced through powers under regulation. Then there is what we\u2019re debating tonight, which is, for those who drive diesel vehicles, a more complicated legislative instrument requiring this amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESpeaking to those concerns around perverse incentives and in fact, around subsidies for fossil fuels, I think it is really important to draw the attention of the House tonight to a press release, which is available for all to read on the Beehive\u2019s website, from the Minister for Trade and Export Growth, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. It\u2019s from 16 December 2021. It\u2019s titled \u201CNew Zealand leads the call for Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform at WTO\u201D. I think it\u2019s really important to give this as context for the Greens\u2019 opposition to this legislation tonight, so I\u2019d like to just read the opening paragraphs of that press release. The Minister, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, says, \u201CNew Zealand is continuing its leadership in tackling damaging fossil fuel subsidies through a launch of a Joint Ministerial Statement, supported by 45 WTO members. Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O\u2019Connor announced. In his launching remarks, Damien O\u2019Connor spoke to the environmental, economic, and social costs of fossil fuel subsidies. [He said] \u2018Worryingly, fossil fuel subsidies have continued to increase in the past decade, costing governments approximately US$500 billion [of] public funds per annum. These subsidies work against our efforts to address climate change by artificially lowering the cost of fossil fuels, and encouraging their on-going use. This is the opposite of what we should be doing,\u2019 [Minister] Damien O\u2019Connor said.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, it was only two to three months later that we saw exactly those fears, and the leadership of Aotearoa New Zealand with regard to calling for an end to fossil fuel subsidies turned around a little bit. I want to acknowledge that that part of the package was halving the price of public transport for three months because that, as the speaker just before me, Paul Eagle, noted, is encouraging in terms of mode shift. But it does not go anywhere near far enough. So to speak to the cost of this package, we know that it is around $320 million to $360 million\u2014if I\u2019m recalling correctly off the top of my head\u2014for that three-month fuel price tax cut. That includes those for diesel vehicles, for whom this legislation impacts, and those who drive petrol vehicles. We also know that the cost of that public transport half price for three months is in the realm of $25 million to $40 million. If we are to extrapolate that to full price, free public transport and then to extrapolate that for a year, that half-price public transport for everybody across Aotearoa New Zealand would cost less than the three-month, 25c fuel tax decrease over the next three months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know how many other ways we can kind of weigh it up in terms of perverse incentives\u2014that is, incentivising people to do things that are contrary to the interests of our nation and of the planet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f382a541384965b3f80079c137b06a\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: But most people don\u2019t go on a bus!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417adbc4068f49d4a1b37ece898c41f2\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with regard to climate-changing emissions, noting, for example, Mr Simeon Brown, that we have very clear evidence that shows us that even if we were to burn all of the fossil fuels which we have currently discovered and started to excavate, then we would blow way past 1.5 degrees of warming necessary for the survival of the human race. We also are faced with some substantial and unnecessary decisions being made about where we should be investing these funds, noting, of course, that these funds\u2014these road-user charges and the fuel excise tax\u2014are hypothecated. That means that they are put forward in the Budget as being spent on other things. Of course, this is currently being made up by the COVID-19 response fund, but of course, again, the point must be made that there are opportunity costs to these decisions. That is that other decisions are not being made, such as boosting the incomes for lower income New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust finally, I would like to put it to members of the Labour Party in particular, for whom I do have a substantial political fear for, that the reality of this fuel price tax cut for three months is that in three months\u2019 time, there is going to be a really, really difficult political decision to be made where overnight there is a very real risk that you are responsible for\u2014not you, Madam Speaker, of course; the Labour majority\u2014an overnight increase in the costs of fuel and of petrol in this country. Therefore, this response, while absolutely is responding to the cost of living issues, is not the right proportional or appropriate response. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022c23121058cc54a8ba4efeb2757d29982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c23121058cc54a8ba4efeb2757d29982\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The problem that this bill intends to solve is not a simple problem of removing the cost of motoring, the cost of operating diesel-fuelled vehicles. The problem that this piece of legislation is attempting to solve is beyond the capacity of this Government to solve\u2014and that is the cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI had an email today from Ashley. She asked the ACT Party, on the subject of road-user charges, \u201CCould Labour scrap them forever?\u201D Because the costs that her family are bearing right now, with day care, with rent, paying back her student loan, and paying for all of her family\u2019s costs meant that this small reduction in road-user charges that would benefit her family was not even a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money that they are spending just to keep the lights on and to make sure that they have food on the table. Ashley wrote and said she lives in Auckland with her partner. He\u2019s a self-employed truckie and he pays himself only $65,000 a year because he can\u2019t afford to pay himself any more because the cost of fuel, road-user charges, and running the truck mean that\u2019s all he can afford to take out of the business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAshley mentioned that when her partner filled up his diesel car, it cost $161 and that\u2019s before the road-user charges. This piece of legislation rushed through under urgency will not help Ashley and her family overcome the enormous increase in cost of living that this Government has overseen in such a short period of time. But let\u2019s be clear: this Government\u2019s policies, not only have pushed up the price of everything they\u2019ve caused a housing crisis, there\u2019s a congestion crisis on the roads, and there\u2019s a massive crisis in how we fund and finance infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut look, even if this Government could justify taking road-user charges, it doesn\u2019t actually spend them on roads. In response to a written question to the Minister in 2021, \u201CWhat percentage of the 2021 to 2031 New Zealand Transport Agency budget is allocated to investment in road construction?\u201D, the Minister said it would be 23 percent\u201423 percent! So while the Minister has stood up here in the House tonight and has claimed that this piece of legislation, which reduces the cost of road-user charges for diesel-powered vehicles, will actually improve the lives of New Zealanders and help reduce their cost of living, what he\u2019s not admitting to is that less than a quarter of the money that the Government takes from road users actually goes into delivering the roads that they depend on for their communities to thrive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo, if we look at other examples, road-user charges that should be delivering better roads, that should be permitting people who live in cities to get around without having to spend an estimated 40 to 45 minutes if you live in Wellington and Auckland, an additional 40 to 45 minutes every day sitting on congested roads\u2014the road-user charges aren\u2019t even going to fix the problems that this Government and this Minister tell you they\u2019re trying to fix. We know that because this Labour-led Government and the previous Labour-led Government have cancelled roading projects that were deemed absolutely vital not by politicians but by the businesses that depend on road freight and by the communities that want to move safely between home and school and work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you some examples of cancelled projects The four-laning from Whang\u0101rei to Port Marsden, that\u2019s a road that has thousands, sometimes 12,000 or 13,000, of heavy vehicle movements a day. That project was assumed to be going ahead but was cancelled by the Minister after the New Zealand Upgrade projects got away from him in terms of cost. What about the Penlink project that was cancelled by the 2017 Labour-led Government but has since been re-announced? No doubt, when it is finally built, it\u2019ll be at an enormous cost, much greater than it could have been. What about the Tauranga Northern Link cancelled by a Labour-led Government in 2017? Although, you know, clearly there was money to build stuff, and that\u2019s going to be delivered no doubt at a much, much greater cost when it is finally built. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe other problem that we have with road-user charges as they\u2019re currently hypothecated to projects that aren\u2019t even being delivered is that a large proportion of that cost is also being diverted to things like the bike bridge over the Waitemat\u0101 Harbour, where $51 million was spent on consulting fees without even making progress to complete the business case before that project was cancelled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the solution? What is the problem we\u2019re trying to solve here? Well, it\u2019s a cost of living crisis the Government says it\u2019s trying to solve by meddling with road-user charges at the fringe. What we really need roads to do is to connect communities so that people who want to work somewhere know they can get to work in a reasonable time, they can get the kids to school, they can pick them up after work and they can get on with their family life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo what does ACT say? Well, firstly, we\u2019d solve this cost of living crisis by actually giving road users who pay for their carbon emissions through the emissions trading scheme a carbon rebate. ACT announced recently that we would give families around $750 a year that they should get back from the emissions trading scheme because that\u2019s what they already pay for their carbon emissions. We think that\u2019s a much better deal than what this Government\u2019s offering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhen we think about other ways to solve the cost of living crisis\u2014well, firstly, the regulations that are crafted to administer this piece of legislation will, no doubt, be top heavy. They\u2019ll be difficult to navigate. It\u2019ll be an extra cost on business. What we should be aspiring to is less congestion. Road pricing could help solve that. Better public transport\u2014again, users paying for roads could help pay for better public transport. What we should be aspiring to is thriving communities and a healthy economy. ACT will support this bill because it actually reduces taxation, but this is not how we\u2019re going to solve the cost of living crisis. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0d1a908422043f1ba81e49ae15613ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0d1a908422043f1ba81e49ae15613ac\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break and the House will resume at 7 p.m. this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00222c4922cc60ea4a78a0ca347224f58735\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c4922cc60ea4a78a0ca347224f58735\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s wonderful to be back in the House this evening amongst colleagues and such conversations as good legislation, like this particular one, the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EOn 14 March, the Government announced moves to reduce the burden of high fuel prices on our Kiwi families, introducing a 25c reduction in fuel excise duty, and an equivalent reduction in road-user charges. Since February, I rolled out my new caravan, in the electorate of Northcote, and we\u2019ve been hearing directly from our community around what matters most in Beach Haven, and Birkenhead, and Northcote\u2014some very, very special information. The local community has named the caravan Bert, as a side note, so come on down and see that. But what we hear from people is that they want to share, and have help, in the cost of living\u2014it\u2019s one of the biggest issues that constantly gets raised with me. And this bill is part of the Government\u2019s plan to deliver real relief\u2014to my community and to Kiwi families across Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand, like the rest of the world, has been hit by a double whammy of inflation caused by shortages as a result of the impact of COVID restrictions that every country\u2014every country\u2014has been forced to introduce to keep people safe, and also, now, by Russia\u2019s appalling war in Ukraine, a key energy producer, which has led to a global spike in fuel prices. We have all seen the impact of these costs at the pump, we\u2019ve seen them in the supermarket, and we\u2019ve seen them impact on families all across our communities. And so this particular piece of legislation, this evening, is about helping families where we are able to, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00221cd304a64ff5493c9671f9e7d3313b5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cd304a64ff5493c9671f9e7d3313b5b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on the Hon Michael Woodhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e914844f92b940979d8c08b387bbd5f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e914844f92b940979d8c08b387bbd5f9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to rise in qualified support of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. While the Government pats itself on the back for alleviating the pain that people are feeling at the pump, they should also look in the mirror for the reasons why that pain is occurring in the first place. As has been mentioned by previous speakers, it is very much due to decisions that they have made, the pressure that they have put not only on fuel but on housing costs and in the supermarket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also worth reminding ourselves why we\u2019re here. We\u2019re here because of the 42-day rule. If it wasn\u2019t for the 42-day rule, the Government would be able to actually just simply do this by Order in Council. The 42-day rule actually has its genesis in 2008. Those who were campaigning that year will remember the truck protest that occurred because of the significant increase in road-user charges (RUC) that was imposed on diesel users. I think it was Annette King who was the Minister at that time who came out and said \u201CWell, basically, if we didn\u2019t put the RUC increase in straight away, truckies would go out and buy kilometres well ahead of what they would otherwise have done.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022771a232b694f4a369dc210e9a9cce5e2\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Was that Annette King?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b50e44439a490bb62872f4e69e9f72\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pretty sure it was Annette King, Mr O\u2019Connor. That ended up with trucks up and down the high streets in every city and town in New Zealand. It was in response to that, and, as the Minister has acknowledged, it was with the view that the RUC would normally only go up and not down that the 42-day rule was put in place. It occurred because the previous Labour Government did not trust RUC users to do what they should be able to do, which is to buy things in advance before the price goes up, as if that was some kind of heinous crime to actually give the Government money sooner than they otherwise would to avoid a price increase. Well, that\u2019s hardly in the spirit of innovation. I would suggest that they are entirely within their rights to be able to do that. So the National Government actually put in place this 42-day rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the right thing to do to be passing this law, but I do worry that we are actually wasting the House\u2019s time on stuff that actually should be belts and braces in the legislation. I think there is a clause in this bill\u2014and we can flesh this out as we go through it under urgency\u2014where the Government can basically extend this indefinitely by Order in Council. I\u2019m checking with the Minister. Maybe that\u2019s the case. We\u2019ll find the appropriate clause in it. I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s actually good law, because this House does need to provide the necessary scrutiny that is to ensure that we\u2019re passing robust laws. I\u2019m not convinced that the framework is in place for that to be able to happen, and maybe we can put some amendments in place to do just that. So it\u2019s with a qualified support that we will continue this conversation, and I look forward to seeing how that conversation goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220209ec1b897c4039899e7b834483914a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220209ec1b897c4039899e7b834483914a\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise as a proud owner of a navy blue Santa Fe diesel\u2014navy blue. And I\u2019ve recently, on 1 March, purchased 8,000 kilometres worth of road user charges (RUC). And I did so because I\u2019m one of these people who likes to buy things in advance and not get caught out without enough RUC. So I was very pleased to hear that I will be able to benefit from this reduction in road-user charges for the three months that they are brought in for. Now, when I drive my navy blue Hyundai Santa Fe, I\u2019m often asked about \u201CWhy\u2019s your car blue?\u201D It\u2019s the colour of the flag: it\u2019s actually white, red, and blue. I can say it\u2019s the best conversation starter that I could have, in talking to my electorate, and when I\u2019m out talking to my electorate, one of the best things that\u2019s happened has been seeing the drop in fuel prices and the drop that we\u2019re going to get through our road-user charges. That, I must say, has made a huge difference for people in the community that I represent. Now, National says they\u2019re about doing the business\u2014they represent business\u2014and yet, today, they\u2019ve said they\u2019re not going to vote for this bill. They\u2019re going to drag it out. Well, my suggestion is that the National Party gets on with the business, like we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb2cf01599743bdb79e24a4926db556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb2cf01599743bdb79e24a4926db556\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s always a privilege and honour to stand as the member of Parliament for the \u014Ctaki electorate but also to take a call in this House of change tonight on the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EFirstly, can I thank the Minister of Transport, his team, and, of course, our leadership from our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, who acknowledges and wants to support Kiwis by putting in measures like this to be able to help us at this time. As we know, due to Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine, and then, of course, with the COVID pandemic globally and countries starting to open their countries up to travel, that\u2019s made those fuel prices shoot up. So something like this is something that we need right now for our Kiwis in terms of our budgets, and we know that this is part of that bigger piece of work. As we know, this Government\u2019s put in 25c a litre off petrol. We know, in the beautiful \u014Ctaki electorate, we have $2.57 for petrol at the moment, and if you shop in our supermarkets, you might be able to get 6c a litre off, and that\u2019ll make it $2.51. So, if you\u2019re passing through on the awesome Transmission Gully that this Government has also completed, please stop in, do some shopping, get 6c a litre off, and go and shop in one of our petrol stations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut aside from that, we\u2019ve also made sure as part of this package\u2014and this bill fits in that wider piece of work\u2014that we\u2019re making our public transport half price as well. Again, for the \u014Ctaki electorate that means \u014Ctaki, Waikanae, and Paraparaumu through to the capital is half price for that three months, and, of course, the Capital Connection, which is all stops from Levin right through, which is, again, really helpful right now for Kiwis\u2019 budgets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut of course, we can\u2019t just leave the diesel drivers out. If we\u2019re going to help the people that drive petrol cars, help people who are using public transport, we need to have these with their RUCs being 36 percent off at the moment for three months. So with that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002270cfa85387fc4ea99e81a57108e9079a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270cfa85387fc4ea99e81a57108e9079a\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. National, for the sake of the member Anna Lorck, will be supporting this legislation. But we do so with some caveats and some concerns about the process that has led to us this evening having the House sit in urgency, passing every stage of this piece of legislation without any due scrutiny by select committee, without any opportunity for submitters to have a say, to give us the benefit of their wisdom, for stakeholders not to have any input, and in response to what has clearly been a panicked announcement by the Government as a result not so much of international matters, but as a result of a very domestic but challenging for the Government bad poll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo what we found was that, in the words of Bob Carter\u2019s famous quote, \u201CPoor planning on your part does not necessitate an emergency on mine.\u201D And now we are, in fact, as a Parliament, having to make up for the Government\u2019s poor planning, for their poor forethought, foresight, and their lack of actual understanding about how the road-user charge (RUC) system works, off the back of their rushed announcement that they were going to give some relief to car drivers who have petrol and diesel vehicles. So not much thought went into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s easy enough to use a piece of legislation or make the announcement for a temporary reduction in the price of petrol at the petrol pump\u2014that can be done more or less without any legislative need\u2014but for road-user charges, far more complicated. And my colleagues have already addressed several of the matters that relate to the issues that we see in this, but I want to turn to the usual analysis that will be made by way of departmental disclosure statement. Sitting on the table is the disclosure statement from the Ministry of Transport, and it is remarkable in terms of the telling insight that it produces for how ill prepared the Government were and how rushed their announcement was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo on the face of it we\u2019ve been told that this legislation is required because of international affairs, but those international situations have been now in place for over a month\u2014for quite a long time. And it was obvious right from day one that international oil prices would be affected. All around the world prices were going up and having an impact on people at the pump. So one would have thought that a diligent, thorough, careful, and prudent Minister would have initiated some kind of action earlier than he did. But no, the Minister was completely side-lined by his ideological policy agenda in his other portfolio areas and had neglected to think much about what was going to be required in terms of detail relating to diesel users. So a rapid response to create the announcement\u2014that\u2019s typical of this Government. They do that very well. They announce announcements and they do it oozing empathy but no attention to detail or delivery. And they, of course, completely neglected to understand the implications for offering publicly to reduce the price of diesel, and they didn\u2019t think about the implications for the road-user charge system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo in the departmental disclosure statement, it says that the policy was developed in response to a rapidly changing international situation impacting on the price of fuel\u2014fair enough. And then it goes on to say\u2014and this is the telling part\u2014\u201CThere are no relevant inquiries, reviews, or evaluation reports relevant to the policy.\u201D I\u2019ll read that again: \u201CThere are no relevant inquiries, reviews, or evaluation reports relevant to the policy.\u201D There is, however, an intention to release relevant papers relating to the decision to reduce petrol excise duty and road-user charges as soon as they are ready for proactive release. Now, that\u2019s bureaucratic speak for \u201CNobody talked to the Ministry of Transport, nobody consulted with them in advance, and they had no warning that this announcement was about to be made, and they were not prepared for it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe disclosure statement goes on to list a whole lot of sort of standard questions that are usually asked of pieces of legislation. Does the bill seek to give effect to any New Zealand action in relation to international treaty? No. Were any regulatory impact statements provided to inform the policy decisions that led to this bill? And then it goes on to repeat that it was done in response to a rapidly evolving international situation, and as such no regulatory impact statement has been completed. Again, that\u2019s bureaucratic code for \u201CWe were blindsided by the Minister, we were blindsided by the announcement, and we weren\u2019t ready or prepared as a ministry to offer advice or assistance on how this policy might be implemented.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAnd so the Government has stumbled their way through this in a pretty amateur way really. And it\u2019s probably, I would think, a matter of some considerable embarrassment to a Minister who normally likes to rank himself highly in terms of his efficiency and his ability to be on top of his portfolios. Most of us know that that\u2019s little more than a veneer, but, to the general public, many of them still believe it. But what we find in the disclosure statement from the Ministry of Transport is one of the most telling pieces, which was that the final question is in terms of\u2014well, there were two final questions I wish to highlight in this contribution. One was at 3.6, which says, \u201CHas there been any external consultation on the policy to be given effect by this bill or on a draft bill?\u201D And the answer simply is a one word, stark, \u201CNo.\u201D No consultation on the policy to be given effect by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThen finally, in what is ultimately a most damning indictment on the lack of preparedness by this Government for this piece of legislation, that they are going to ram through the Parliament tonight under urgency using their absolute majority, is the question, \u201CHave the policy details being given effect by this bill been otherwise tested or assessed in any way to ensure the bill\u2019s provisions are workable and complete?\u201D And the answer is that a workshop was held with the New Zealand Transport Agency\u2014the RUC collector\u2014and that was held on 23 March to test and assess the workability of the bill. A workshop was held on 23 March, but the announcement was made on 14 March. So the New Zealand Transport Agency was caught short again by trying to have to administer this legislation, caught without awareness, caught without notice, caught without any kind of sense that it was coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got some questions in relation to how this could have happened and how the Government could have been caught so flatfooted in terms of what they are seeking to achieve. The bill provides for a temporary respite for people who use petrol, drive petrol vehicles, and, of course, at the same time that announcement was made, the grand sweeping statement was made and the same 25c reduction will apply to RUC. And it was immediately obvious\u2014it was funny. I was looking at social media literally minutes after the announcement was made, and there was an avalanche, a tsunami, of commentary coming from RUC users, diesel vehicle drivers, saying, \u201CWell, how on earth is this going to work? Because we buy RUC in advance, we buy RUC in usually 10,000 kilometre or 1,000 kilometre blocks, and we pay for the RUC not at the pump.\u201D And so the users, the people who were actually involved with this, were very aware very quickly that this was an unworkable solution that had been announced by the Government, and it became very clear almost immediately after the announcement that corrective legislation would be required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWell, that\u2019s what the House is debating tonight under urgency. That is the corrective legislation that will have to be passed through without any scrutiny by the select committee process that we usually hold dear in this Parliament, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s good enough from a Government for a temporary measure that is actually going to run out in the not too distant future. The real challenge for this Government will be not the temporary relaxation and assistance they\u2019re providing to New Zealanders who are suffering under the cost of living crisis, but the real challenge for this Government will be what on earth are they going to do at the end of this temporary period when the full impact of the cost of living crisis at the petrol pump and at the diesel pump is going to be again reflected on the long-suffering, squeezed middle in New Zealand, the people who are productive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022801e2f3e9e0e4ea6a3cef704b3ae4a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022801e2f3e9e0e4ea6a3cef704b3ae4a3a\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise in support of this very simple and effective piece of legislation. I look at it and I don\u2019t think it\u2019s actually that complicated, Mr Simpson. What I heard, when it was the announcement, was exactly what has actually occurred. There was an announcement that there would be an immediate reduction in the price of petrol. That petrol went down, even before that came into effect, and there was an absolute notice that this would happen, that there would be a look at what was a complex situation and a practical fix, and that\u2019s what we have tonight. We have a practical fix, by way of urgency, and my friends on the other side of the House, for some inexplicable reason, have decided that they will oppose something which is, effectively, a reduction in tax. It seems a little ironic to me that they would take that particular approach of opposing urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to talk to the causes for that urgency, because it isn\u2019t a little situation, and I think the New Zealand public will understand. It\u2019s a situation where we have had COVID. It is a situation where, on top of that, we now have our first European war in quite some time. It\u2019s a very serious situation and it impacted on New Zealanders. This Government took it absolutely seriously. And it understood it because I, actually, have such pleasure in hearing from people like my friend Terisa, who comes from the area, which is one of the\u2014she\u2019s absolutely salt of the earth in terms of her groundedness in that community. And she knows that this is what\u2019s affected people, and that this is one way that we can bring relief to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd so, in this situation, what will happen is there will be a capacity for people who buy 5,000 kilometres of road-user charge to get an immediate discount of 135 bucks. That is bread on the table. That is a grounded response to a situation that needed to be resolved. That is a good contribution to people\u2019s cost of living situations because that\u2019s real. And it doesn\u2019t need to be held up by the National Party asking silly questions in the next stage. It could, actually, just happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis here is a good solution, and it\u2019s a simple solution, and it\u2019s a fair solution. And it sits alongside\u2014and I\u2019m very proud of this\u2014a reduction in petrol, but also a half-price public transport system so that people who don\u2019t have a car and who are reliant on public transport can actually come into my city for free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI am very conscious that the hard edge of what we\u2019ve been going through in the last 20 years is a movement of our poorer people in Auckland out to our suburbs. So those are the people who most do need this, and they, actually, are going to get it. And they\u2019re going to get it from this Government because this Government actually knows that that\u2019s where the money needs to be spent; that\u2019s where the relief needs to be given. And I am extremely proud of this Government for doing that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225ecec0a319c6492cade652d454874aa9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000501\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e10ad7b8e7e4a3890e7b289ca201102\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002290bb334f9fa44f88a32905b9d7f1d8fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290bb334f9fa44f88a32905b9d7f1d8fb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs we canvassed in the first reading of this bill, the Government is moving swiftly to tackle some of the cost of living pressures that Kiwis are feeling. We moved very, very quickly on this issue in response to increased pressure on energy prices. Within hours of Cabinet deciding that fuel excise duty would be reduced, that was enacted. We\u2019ve also moved through a $40 million investment to ensure that Kiwis have access to half price public transport over the next three months. Reductions to road-user charges (RUC) are the other part of the package to ensure that all transport users in New Zealand do feel some relief given the increases in prices that we are seeing coming through due to the war in Ukraine and other supply-chain factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt is worth noting, and I respond here to some of the debate that\u2019s occurred in the Chamber this evening, that this has been quite a complex piece of work. As has been canvassed, changing road-user charge rates, given that there are over 200 different rates that are set by regulation depending on the weight and axel load characteristics of different vehicles, is a more complex matter than simply enacting a temporary reduction to fuel excise duty. I want to acknowledge officials from Waka Kotahi and the Ministry of Transport who have turned that piece of work around very, very quickly indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFrankly, in the debate that we\u2019ve had tonight the National Party has been spinning around like a top in terms of the lines that they have been putting out in respect of this issue. I think Mr Hamish Rutherford has his work cut out in the next few months in order to try and establish a little bit of message discipline there. Because what we got from a number of the speakers in the Chamber tonight\u2014and we\u2019ll call these people \u201Cteam Simpson\u201D because he probably led the charge on this\u2014was an allegation that effectively the Government is moving too fast on this issue, that we should\u2019ve slowed down to get more advice, then engage, and check in with officials. We had a lot of criticism from Mr Simpson that the process has moved along too quickly, that actually we should\u2019ve slowed it down and delayed the benefits of this policy coming into effect for those people who need relief on road-user charges. Of course, that is consistent with the parliamentary strategy that we have seen tonight, whereby the National Party opposition has opposed the urgency that the Government put forward to deal with this issue swiftly and want to slow the progress of this reduction down. So that was one perspective that we heard from the Opposition benches tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe other, which we\u2019ll call the \u201Cteam Brown world view\u201D, was that this process has been too slow, that we should\u2019ve somehow just willed into existence a complex legislative change across those 200 rates with integrity and transition measures in place to make a robust piece of legislation. I think that that is consistent with the way that that member approaches the portfolio from time to time. He is capable of living existentially in two worlds, as we\u2019ve learnt with his opposition to the regional fuel tax but his delight about the fact that it\u2019s building the Eastern Busway into and through his electorate. So that is relatively consistent for that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut what I would say is that over a period of three weeks, for officials and Government to turn around this policy and to be able to present legislation to this House to bring this change into effect from 21 April, I think, is very good work indeed. It is worth noting that, when the change comes into effect from 21 April, it will apply for the full three-month period. So it will be a period of time that the reduction will apply that is comparable or that is the same in duration as the reduction to fuel excise duty and also to the public transport half-price fares that we have brought on as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere is one other point that I wanted to cover in the course of my comments in this second reading speech, which may provide some useful clarity about how the transition arrangements will work. It\u2019s been canvassed in the debate so far that people obviously do purchase their road-user charge licences in advance. So there is a question about what will happen for people who have purchased those road-user charge licences before the reduced rates come into effect. Are they able to access the benefits of the reductions that will come through this piece of legislation? The good news there is that we have structured this change to enable those people to also get the benefit. So vehicle owners who do have an existing RUC licence with unused distance will be able to purchase what\u2019s called an \u201Coverlap licence\u201D. This is a provision which is in existence in the existing legislation; it\u2019s called an \u201Coverlap licence\u201D. With that, the licence begins on the current odometer or hubodometer reading at the time of the purchase. The unused distance on the existing licence can then be automatically credited to offset the new licence costs, and that can be done at the new reduced rate. So Kiwis will be able to benefit from this policy by purchasing road-user charge at the reduced rate during the three-month period. But if they have purchased previously, then through this mechanism, they will also be able to access the benefits of the reduced rate as well. I thought that might be useful to inform the remainder of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo I am very pleased that we\u2019re able to move forward quickly with the second reading of the bill. Very hopeful that we can move through this legislation and put it into effect so that this important change to help Kiwis with cost of living pressures can come into effect from 21 April and complement all of those other good things that our Government is doing to support Kiwis at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c274b00e83fc477aa7b3a53d514a6890\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c274b00e83fc477aa7b3a53d514a6890\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on the second reading of this Road User Chargers (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. I just want to acknowledge some members from the other side of House for some of their contributions. Before, we had \u201CTeam White\u201D: I thought it was a great contribution from \u201CTeam White\u201D, telling us to stop asking the pesky questions. [Interruption] That\u2019s right, stop asking the pesky questions, because, apparently, we now live under a dictatorship in New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s no longer a democracy. In fact, actually, what we should be doing here in this Parliament is simply, whenever the Government announces something, wait for the legislation and then just rush it through and don\u2019t ask any single question. But I did note \u201CTeam McAnulty\u201D, the chief whip, did give her a little telling off. She spoke for a little bit longer, because she was, unfortunately, making too many points. Too many points. And that wasn\u2019t to be had. I\u2019m sure that \u201CTeam Wood\u201D, the Minister of Transport down at the front, would not have been impressed with that contribution in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut this has been a rushed process, and it comes back to the point that this Government says in the explanatory note of this piece of legislation: that this bill has been brought through to try to offset some of the costs which New Zealanders are facing due to Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine and the impact that is having on fuel prices. I come back to my point: the invasion into Ukraine started on 24 February, the Government announced this policy on 14 March, and in-between that time they hadn\u2019t even had a workshop with the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA). The workshop happened on 23 March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo what actually happened was something which happened on 10 March, and we all know what that was: it was a 1News poll which came out and said National was ahead of Labour for the first time in two years, and that Government panicked. They thought, \u201CWell, we better do something. What are New Zealanders worried about? They\u2019re worried about the cost of living. We better do something. We better do something.\u201D They couldn\u2019t acknowledge it as a crisis. It wasn\u2019t a crisis; just a challenge, just an issue. But we had to do something. And so they quickly made an announcement\u2014and this Government is very good at announcements. In fact, they are very, very good at announcements of an announcement. And what we got on 14 March was an announcement that excise would be reduced, and an announcement of an announcement that at some point in the future, people who have diesel vehicles would get a reduction in their road-user charges (RUC). And that is, eventually, what we\u2019re doing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut again, I come back to the point: the legislation says that the Minister can, through regulation, change road-user charges if he or she would give 42 days\u2019 notice. Well, we\u2019re debating a piece of legislation here which will give effect to a reduction in RUC rates within only 38 days after the announcement. That\u2019s right: this legislation is only reducing the period of time between the announcement and when it actually comes into effect by four days\u2014four days. The time frame the legislation requires notice be given of a change to road-user charges is 42 days. This legislation will, effectively, cut that by four days and mean that the road-user charge reduction comes into effect 38 days following the announcement. So we\u2019re spending the night here debating this legislation that saves four days. If this Government was actually, truly serious and was actually addressing the cost of living pressures that were building well before the war in Ukraine\u2014well before that time period and, certainly, before the poll came out on 10 March\u2014they would have been thinking and would have been working on this piece of legislation quite some time ago, so they could have actually acted with urgency at the time when they made that announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo the National Party is looking forward to the committee of the whole House, because there are a number of questions which do need to be asked about this legislation. We do need to tease out some of those issues around people who have purchased RUC prior to this coming into force; whether that applies to light vehicles as well as heavy vehicles; the cost of purchasing those overlapped licences\u2014there is a cost involved in doing that, and we need to ask some questions around what those costs are and then what is the burden that therefore puts upon people doing that. I\u2019d like to know whether the Minister is prepared to actually waive that fee for people who happened to get those overlapped licences, because\u2014I understand it may be a small amount of money, but in terms of the actual benefit, if someone\u2019s going to be only benefiting by $130 and the overlapped licence is going to cost them 10 bucks, well, that actually substantially reduces the benefit that they then get through this piece of legislation. And so we need to interrogate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe also need to look at the provision in this piece of legislation around the possible extinction, because this piece of legislation\u2014the Minister hasn\u2019t touched on it, but it, effectively, gives the Minister the ability to extend this temporary reduction, at a different rate. And so we need to ask some questions around how that works and what the Government\u2019s intentions are in terms of having that provision in this piece of legislation. Is the Government actually considering extending the reduction in RUC rates? I think that\u2019s something that New Zealanders would like to know and should know, particularly when they are going to potentially be going out and purchasing large numbers of kilometres of RUC when this reduction comes into force. Is it going to be extended for another three months, six months? Will it not be extended? Why is that provision put into this bill and what is the Government\u2019s intention by putting that piece into this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe final point that I\u2019d like to make is that New Zealanders aren\u2019t just focused here on the cost of living, but when we start talking about RUC\u2014road-user charges\u2014and petrol excise, they actually want to see a Government which delivers. And what we\u2019ve seen under this Government is the money which is being paid in billions of dollars every year\u2014billions of dollars every year in road-user charges and petrol excise\u2014isn\u2019t going anywhere. We\u2019ve had Mill Road cancelled. East West Link cancelled. \u014Ctaki to Levin, cancelled. The Tauranga Northern Link cancelled and then started again. We\u2019ve had Whang\u0101rei to Marsden Point cancelled. Cambridge to Piarere, cancelled. All of these roads, important pieces of infrastructure, and the Minister goes on television and he says, \u201CWe\u2019ve got an infrastructure deficit in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWell, I tell you, Minister, it\u2019s your Government which has created it, because you\u2019re spending all this time writing reports, millions of dollars\u2014$100 million at Te Huia. We\u2019ve got $50 million for a cycle bridge, which has been cancelled but he\u2019s still trying to get it across the line if he can. Thirty-five million dollars on consultants for Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving, which is actually just slowing Wellington down. Tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted, and nothing being built. This Government\u2019s responsible for the infrastructure deficit, which he crows about on the television over the weekend. And so, Minister, I say that the money that New Zealanders are paying into the land transport fund needs to be spent responsibly, needs to be spent wisely, and, actually, needs to deliver the roads and the infrastructure which New Zealanders need. We\u2019re sick and tired of the reports. We\u2019re sick and tired of the money going on consultants. We\u2019re sick and tired of the absolute waste of money that is happening and the announcements of announcements over years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd so it\u2019s time to actually get things done. In this Government, the National Government, which is coming in next year, we will get things done. So we will support this bill, but we will also ask the questions which need to be asked, to hold this Government to account. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb84a0ce28cc45ae9af2d44608e47148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb84a0ce28cc45ae9af2d44608e47148\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. During the first reading I invited that member to go and read the bill. He\u2019s had some time to do it, but he clearly hasn\u2019t. Let me just explain what the overlap licence is. It means that if, as one of my \u014Ch\u0101riu electorate contractors did, he has purchased in advance quite a large number of road-user charges (RUCs), so that he is not disadvantaged the overlap licence will now ensure that they are taken into account and that he will actually get full consideration of what he has previously purchased. There wasn\u2019t anything that existed in current legislation and that wouldn\u2019t have been able to be allowed for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that ensures that when we are going to do something significant which is going to assist people, like my constituent with a large number of diesel vehicles, to work their way through some costs at the moment, we do it properly. Because what we don\u2019t want to do is have the situation where entrepreneurial people, probably smart people, say: \u201CHey, these things are going to be cheap for the next three months. Why don\u2019t I buy my next two years\u2019 worth of RUCs?\u201D Now, that would be a legitimate thing to do but for this legislation, and this legislation is designed to ensure that won\u2019t happen. So that will bring the fairness that that member seems to be very concerned is not going to be in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThere will be another reading of this bill tonight, or certainly in this session, so I would invite that member to go away and have a read of the bill so he understands how some of those concerns will be met. I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022e53aa0fd88c3422d80df8672ac46f7f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e53aa0fd88c3422d80df8672ac46f7f6\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in this second reading. Normally, I suppose, in the second reading we have a look at the select committee stage and think about what was said via the public in submissions. Of course, because we are under urgency, we don\u2019t have the ability to do that. I think, as quite rightly, my learned colleague Simeon Brown has pointed out, it\u2019s taken the Minister and this Government so long to bring this bill to the House, you would argue why there couldn\u2019t have been a truncated select committee in some form to get some feedback and to test exactly the drafting of this legislation and whether it\u2019s actually going to deliver what the Minister and the Government proposes it will deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EOne thing I would say is, New Zealanders have a great sense of fairness, but what they don\u2019t want is a Government that they feel has switched off, is not listening, and is arrogant. And I think, when you look at that poll which triggered this action, it actually said hard-working Kiwis were saying, \u201CWe don\u2019t like watching the Government on TV refuting a cost of living crisis.\u201D That\u2019s what that poll said. So I think it is fairly arrogant for Government members to get up in the first reading, and now the second reading, time after time sheeting the cost of living crisis home to international drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear domestic inflation is outpacing international inflation. Rents have skyrocketed, housing, you only need to go to the supermarket. There\u2019s a range of factors\u2014and also the thief in the night, which of course is inflation\u2014which directly link to this Government throwing money out there into the economy. So I think it\u2019s fair for Kiwis to hear from the Government members tonight to actually acknowledge their role in the cost of living crisis which has led us here to tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat I want to focus on for the first part of my speech is the acknowledgment that the fiscal envelope of this initiative will be about $350 million, and I think, if I\u2019m right, that includes the cut in the excise tax as well as this road-user charges. Now, if I look at the press release (PR) that I presume was put out by the Minister, \u201CThis means we can continue the Government\u2019s record investment into transport infrastructure without having to cut projects.\u201D Really? When you go around regional New Zealand and see roading projects that were cut when this Government came into office, they have the nerve to now say in their PR, \u201Cwithout having to cut projects.\u201D Really? So what about, say, the Woodend Bypass in my electorate? Announced in 2017 as the next road of national significance; this Government came in and cut it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo one thing we could have got clarity on in the select committee stage is, when it says, \u201CThis means we can continue the Government\u2019s record investment into transport infrastructure without having to cut projects.\u201D, does that mean roads specifically? What projects are they referring to? And are we going to have a cast-iron guarantee we\u2019re not going to be told later down the track that because of this $350 million, vital roading projects won\u2019t continue? Because what\u2019s really concerning is when you look at many mainlanders or South Islanders that pay their hard-earned money into road-user charges and then watch this Government gerrymander the Land Transport Fund and their hard-working road-user charges are funnelled off to pet projects in Auckland, nothing winds mainlanders up more. So we are expecting a commitment tonight that projects will be committed to and proceed as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe next point I want to raise: clause 42E, and this could have been interrogated more in the select committee stage. How assessments are to be calculated\u2014got the old formula, A minus B times C minus D equals E. Fair to say, that level of mathematics was not probably my strength, although it was a very good school and the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, I\u2019m sure, would agree with me on that. But what it says, under B, is the distance covered by RUC licences that the RUC collector considers would have been reasonable to purchase for the RUC vehicle during the temporary reduction period. I suppose we can look at that in the committee of the whole House stage, but it would have been good to interrogate that more in the select committee stage. What does it mean when it says, \u201Creasonable to purchase\u201D? I think we don\u2019t have much detail around that because it\u2019s not actually in the formula. And what will be the criteria that our RUC collectors\u2014this role, RUC monitors; more bureaucrats by the sounds of it\u2014will be assessing what was reasonable to order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249579a0b992c4acd93bac1a25eefc3da\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. There\u2019s a couple of areas of concern here. This is a second reading, and so far in the six minutes of this speech, we\u2019ve had debate on a press release, which is not contained in the bill, and we all know that in the second reading, we must debate what is in the bill as it is written. And the second part is now we\u2019ve had two minutes of talking about what should be in the committee stage, and Speakers\u2019 rulings are very clear that while members can indicate a question that they intend to ask, they must not debate it in the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243995c9599964b36a420c53425039254\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Madam Speaker, I\u2019m sure you\u2019re aware that I\u2019m actually speaking directly to the clauses of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a587eb16e8324b3591e2a1bf8817fb2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I do invite the member to come back to the bill and contain your comments to the second reading. We are going to go into the committee stage pretty soon and you can actually ask your questions then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305cc777adb64cf5b30982b43b303065\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. So with that clause 42E, now we will have to think about how we do interrogate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe next point I want to raise is the Minister\u2019s reference in the speech for the second reading about the backdating\u2014or what we\u2019re calling an \u201Coverlap licence\u201D\u2014and I\u2019ll take his word for it that\u2019s in existing legislation. But what I am surprised at\u2014and of course, that could have been teased out at the select committee stage as well\u2014is I\u2019m not sure it\u2019s actually referenced in this bill. It\u2019s not exactly pointed to. So it would be interesting to understand why it\u2019s not in the bill, and I suppose it does pose some questions for us around the administration of that, the cost of that, and the difference between heavy and light vehicles as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo in the second reading, I\u2019ve hopefully outlined, I think, what would have been some of the concerns that would have come out of the select committee stage. It\u2019s fair to say we are in support of this bill at a time of a cost of living crisis. It\u2019s important that many New Zealanders get to keep as much of their hard-earned money as possible. But also, I suppose, part of our role as parliamentarians is to ask those pesky questions. And I suppose it is important, because it wouldn\u2019t be the first time the Government\u2019s brought things in and then, of course, had to do their own Supplementary Order Papers at the committee of the whole House stage, but actually had to bring legislation back in the House for further work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo I think it is important that we ask the pesky questions and ensure ultimately what we have here in the sense of the draft legislation and the words in this bill, that it actually delivers on what the intent is: to ensure that hard-working Kiwis get to keep a bit of their hard-earned cash. But also expect that this Government will deliver on vital transport and roading infrastructures that we need. And we know in the South Island, there\u2019s plenty of projects that have been cancelled and I look forward to them getting under way. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c03f74a47ef64d6c98182e4d3324eae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c03f74a47ef64d6c98182e4d3324eae2\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to talk for the second reading of this Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. Can I just reinforce the comments of my colleagues who have noted the geopolitical and economic context for the rationale that underpins this bill. We know, as I said in the first reading, that these events\u2014one negative, being the war, and one positive, as we recover from the COVID pandemic\u2014have impacted fuel prices across the globe, and of course here in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ETwo main points that I\u2019ll reinforce. From last Friday, 1 April through to June 30, funding will be provided to local government to ensure that the half-price public transport fares that cover the core public transport services will be implemented. And as I said, it has already proven to be a hit, a winner, and social media tells me that\u2014only in the last few hours\u2014every Wellingtonian who decided to catch a train or a bus, they\u2019re chock-a-block. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ETo finish, just to reinforce that road-user charges from late April through to late July will be cut by 36 percent across all legislated rates. We\u2019ll hear lots tonight, but we know that the Opposition supports this, and that\u2019s the main point. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1e8dd94a8b24b83afbecceeea1d48ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1e8dd94a8b24b83afbecceeea1d48ae\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on the second reading of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFor viewers, I\u2019d like to reference them to my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s first reading speech, which I think contains most of the context of why this bill is in place. As many have noted in the second reading, there is a geopolitical context as to why the Government decided to, effectively, subsidise fossil fuels and subsequently bring in this bill to ensure there\u2019s no perverse outcomes for vehicles that use diesel. For us, in the Greens, we\u2019ve been really clear from the outset that, while we really welcome the Government\u2019s intent to reduce the cost of living pressures by, for example, discounting public transport, we feel that a much more effective way of doing this across the board would have been with cash transfers, as opposed to trying to do what this bill is trying to achieve, which effectively is a really knee-jerk way of addressing the cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhile we acknowledge that the cost of diesel and the way that it impacts freight can have a flow-on effect on the cost of items, such as food, it\u2019s really important that, on top of looking at things in this bill to reduce the cost of essential items, the Government also commits to prioritising better funding for the electrification of our freight system, to ensure that the way that we supply essential goods is not so vulnerable to geopolitical shocks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party does not support this bill. We encourage the Government to look at other measures that look after our people and the climate, and so we won\u2019t be supporting it to go to further status. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00225329c17125a74fb58e31ce4c815f5e59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225329c17125a74fb58e31ce4c815f5e59\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Simon Court\u2014he got here just in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022287345e3bf4e4fc5bd31077a9144bc97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022287345e3bf4e4fc5bd31077a9144bc97\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, if only the roads in Auckland were as free of congestion as Parliament\u2019s halls on a Tuesday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party will support this bill, including the fact that it\u2019s under urgency, because there\u2019s nothing that the ACT Party wants to do more than return taxpayers\u2019 money, whether it\u2019s through road-user charges or any other form of taxation, to taxpayers. There is a cost of living crisis, and all New Zealanders are hoping and praying to wake up and find more money in their bank accounts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOne of the problems with this piece of legislation, which, unfortunately, the officials have failed to point out, is that there hasn\u2019t been a regulatory impact assessment. In the departmental disclosure statement, there is no information at all about the cost and benefits of this piece of legislation, how it will be implemented, and all of the issues around implementation. That means that transporters\u2014people in the industry\u2014are actually very concerned about how much of their administration time and how much of their business time is going to be spent trying to make claims to get the 36 percent reduction. Why on earth wasn\u2019t a simpler method canvassed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EActually, one of New Zealand\u2019s transporting representative groups, Transporting New Zealand, has actually suggested a simpler alternative\u2014that is, rather than give a cost reduction on road-user charges, give the 36 percent - equivalent extension of kilometres. Transporting New Zealand, I understand, has proposed that that would be a far simpler way of administering the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhen you actually look at the way road-user charges are administered in New Zealand, it\u2019s a system that was set up in the 1990s, when it was intended that those who caused wear and tear to the roads\u2014trucks on the road; heavy vehicles, it was presumed\u2014would pay their fair share based on their weight, the number of axles, and the distance travelled. At the time, when New Zealanders understood how important user charges, road pricing, and having the people who used the service should pay for it was, actually, road-user charges seemed like a pretty smart idea and a pretty good way to recover the cost from heavy transport operators using the roads. But, like most Governments, they couldn\u2019t anticipate the future. They only looked in the rear-view mirror to come up with policy that solved problems of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo, very shortly after road-user charges were introduced into New Zealand, New Zealand had the benefit of receiving a large number of light diesel-powered vehicles\u2014what we call utes or sport utility vehicles (SUVs). Some of us are lucky enough to have turbocharged diesel engines in our utes and SUVs, which are actually highly efficient with very high compression ratios. They\u2019re great for towing. They\u2019re great for hill climbs and for sandy and muddy conditions. But, of course, these vehicles, when they\u2019re used on road, have to pay road-user charges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe actual administration of the scheme was set up for commercial operators: for people hauling logs, hauling rocks, hauling containers, hauling fruit and vegetables and food to supermarkets in large truck and trailers, articulated vehicles, and B trains. The system was set up for them, but it has had to be adapted to cater for the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of light diesel vehicle operators, and it\u2019s not fit for purpose. The fact that the Government has to come to the House to pass an amendment under urgency to allow road-user charges to be discounted at this time\u2014which, of course, ACT supports because we believe that taxpayers should be able to keep their own money, and so we support that. But if you actually go on the New Zealand Transport Agency website and look at the road-user charges information on how do you pay them and what are they for, the information appears to be from last century, because, actually, that\u2019s when road-user charges were developed and that\u2019s the system that was set up to deal with a problem of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo if we\u2019re thinking about what this legislation is intended to do, well, it\u2019s not even a band-aid. In fact, if it was a band-aid, it wouldn\u2019t even cover a scratch on your pinkie finger, this discount for road-user charges for people who use diesel-powered vehicles. That\u2019s because the cost of living crisis in New Zealand and the astronomical rates of inflation of nearly 6 percent have far outstripped any concession that this Government might have made. But what is heartening, what we should take heart from, and what the ACT Party wants voters to know is that, actually, tax cuts and reducing Government revenue need not lead to a reduction in services, because what the Government and the Minister of Transport have told us is that they will simply reach into another fund\u2014that\u2019s the general taxation fund\u2014to make up for the road-user charge discount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut that actually brings us to a far more fundamental problem: road-user charges are hypothecated to build, operate, and maintain roads\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fba2a7260364c928f41809be965b4f0\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: And rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a29ed4cc7b0472faac57d49a908eeb9\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, it turns out, rail, as my colleague has pointed out\u2014yet only 23 percent of the funds in the National Land Transport Fund are actually allocated to roads. The system is broken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI have an answer to a written question here that I asked the Minister last year: \u201CWhat percentage of the 2021 to 2031 NZTA budget is allocated to investment in road construction?\u201D The Minister said, \u201CThe estimated funding allocated by Waka Kotahi (NZ Transport Agency) from the NLTF\u201D\u2014the National Land Transport Fund\u2014\u201Cis 23 percent.\u201D\u201423 percent of the money is allocated to roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe system is broken. Road users are not getting value for money. Not only are they not getting value for money but they\u2019re stuck on congested roads in major centres like Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, and even Dunedin. I\u2019ve even heard that Invercargill has traffic jams. We certainly know that Tauranga has traffic jams. Hamilton has traffic jams. All of this money that is being collected by the Government through road-user taxes, fuel excise duty, and so forth is not being spent on roads. New Zealanders are not getting fair value for money. Now, the roads in Invercargill, it\u2019s fair to say, are wide enough to turn around a wagon pulled by a team of eight bullocks. Actually, that makes those roads ideal for all kinds of urban development public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut look, in all seriousness, the New Zealand road users are being ripped off. They\u2019re having money hoovered out of their pockets through fuel excise duties and road-user charges, and, of course, they\u2019re paying their fair share for carbon emissions through the emissions trading scheme (ETS), that wonderful scheme which captures all of the carbon emitted by New Zealand industries and allows businesses to trade fairly to mitigate emissions, or to pay for their emissions. In fact, the Climate Change Commission said that no other policy at all is required in order for New Zealand to meet its emission targets in 2050, and this Government is collecting so much money from auctioning credits under the ETS. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ERemember, every single road user pays for their emissions through the emissions trading scheme. There is a price\u2014an ETS price, a carbon price\u2014put on every litre of fuel, whether it\u2019s diesel or petrol, that New Zealanders use to put in their cars, trucks, vans, utes, and so on. So that\u2019s why ACT says that, actually, we could give the people of New Zealand\u2014the road users and families\u2014a much bigger discount by offering them back their own money. It\u2019s actually a carbon dividend, taking the money the Government collects through the emissions trading scheme and giving each family back $750 a year in a carbon dividend. They\u2019ve paid that money. They should be able to reap the benefit of New Zealand reducing its emissions. That\u2019s what the emissions trading scheme is\u2014it\u2019s a wonderful scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis bill, which ACT supports, will put a very small amount of money back in the pockets of New Zealanders who rely on purchasing road-user charges to operate their diesel-powered vehicles. ACT fears that, like with most Government schemes, it will be overly complex. It will be difficult to administer, and it will impose additional costs on businesses that the departmental disclosure statement has not addressed\u2014has not actually carried out a cost and risk assessment. ACT will support the bill in the hope that New Zealanders get some tax relief from this tax and spend Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef322da905f947b9a4fff9355faccd32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef322da905f947b9a4fff9355faccd32\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to speak for the second reading of the road-user charges amendment bill this evening. Can I start by responding to the previous speaker\u2019s statement\u2014and let me be clear: tax cuts do equate to a reduction in services and not only in health and education, but, let\u2019s be very clear, in transport infrastructure in Auckland. If we reduce revenue, we take projects away just like Mr Brown\u2019s Eastern Busway. So let\u2019s be very clear about that, team\u2014that tax cuts do equate to a reduction in services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EBut tonight, as we go over the road-user charges amendment bill, it\u2019s important to acknowledge that fair\u2019s fair, right? Fair\u2019s fair. And what we want to ensure is that the same opportunity, the same savings that we have offered in public transport and petrol are afforded to people that drive diesel vehicles. That\u2019s what this particular bill is about, and we want to afford them that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI would love to see more people on public transport. I think half-price fares are a great opportunity to get Aucklanders back on public transport, lowering emissions, and moving people around our city. But I acknowledge that there are a group of people that this particular bill will benefit. We\u2019ve got to ensure that we are supporting everyone. What we agree tonight is, yes, we all agree that people are feeling the pinch, that there\u2019s lower amounts of money that people have to spend on the things that they want to. We\u2019re feeling it in supermarkets and we\u2019re feeling it at the pump. This Government has acted. We\u2019ve made movements to change and this piece of legislation is yet another one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EYet the Opposition, they want to slow things down is what I\u2019m hearing tonight. They want to say, no, let\u2019s go back to select committee. [Interruption] Mr Brown, let\u2019s go back to select committee and slow things down. This Government\u2019s not about that. We\u2019ve got to get on with transport. We\u2019ve got to get on with infrastructure. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e126aa6c22464730beeb7c821a721c66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e126aa6c22464730beeb7c821a721c66\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on the Hon David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2b9f8d7d0814759964b24c32fabfab1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2b9f8d7d0814759964b24c32fabfab1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E There is a problem with this bill here tonight which the Labour Party hasn\u2019t recognised yet, and they will soon find out in the next couple of minutes. They are innocent to the issue that they have created tonight that they haven\u2019t even thought about. Look at the genesis of the bill. So the petrol excise tax was removed as petrol prices were getting so high, under the guise of the war in Ukraine; that was the pretext, and so be it. And then they worked out, \u201CWell, actually, what about RUC?\u201D, because when they did the excise tax they never thought about road-user changes (RUC).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ab75534e354822aea00938675735d5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They didn\u2019t even know about RUC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adbf8ea0ce8e45d7b5f3db711ba1fbe6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No. And then it took a while for a few commentators and trucking companies and others to come to them and say, \u201CWell, what about RUC?\u201D, and then they worked out, \u201COh, we need to do that.\u201D So they\u2019re doing this legislation. But there is one fundamental problem with this legislation: what happens in three months\u2019 time? In three months\u2019 time, the war will probably still be going, the sanctions on Russia will certainly still be going, and the inflationary environment will still be here. So, suddenly, in three months\u2019 time, are we going to bring excise taxes back in on petrol? Are we going to bring RUC back in on diesel? No way. Because that will create the biggest inflation spike you will see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EInflation will already be rampant in three months\u2019 time. It\u2019s not going to change. It\u2019s not going to go away. The Labour Party thinks it doesn\u2019t exist. It will still be here in three months\u2019 time. This is not going to stop inflation. But the Labour Party has a massive problem in three months\u2019 time, because do they bring these costs back into the system? If they do, they spike inflation. They will spike inflation in three months\u2019 time. That is the dilemma they have over there. They haven\u2019t thought through the implications of what actually happens in three months\u2019 time. Are they going to actually continue this for six to nine months, or a year, 18 months to get through to an election? Are they actually going to risk an inflation spike in three months\u2019 time? We don\u2019t hear any answers. Where\u2019s the Labour Party now? Where are those Ministers? What do they think of that time? Did you actually asked yourself that question? I bet you they didn\u2019t. They wouldn\u2019t have even thought of that, because they didn\u2019t even think of RUC in the first place. So they would not understand the implications of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnd when the Minister takes the chair, we\u2019ll be asking that question: what happens in three months\u2019 time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022094cfc21f81944068d18bc46d99bcfa1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well, do it then, not now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a50c0b5dc7b4ce29cf4720242e806c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616ba94841474f3ea4f9cd77b888cf88\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd037704a22c48058b3d9c7837fd16f0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m giving him a fair warning and he should answer it, and when he has that opportunity, he will. Sometimes you\u2019re going to lay it out there for them to understand before you actually give them the question, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing here now. The Minister had no idea. He should have gone out there and understood what was going to happen in three months\u2019 time. He will have no concept of it. There was no planning done by this Government. It is typical Labour Party economic policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db87f9b88aa4739acc8685dfe765a52\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: On the hoof.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c18e7faf71a45b486b792658b109c70\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Just on the hoof. No judgment around the effects of it and no planning of how to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240184ec921b5446b81ae0baca32cab07\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want to get on with it\u2014do you want this to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd2bff555fac462abadb7e7c36cf977e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We want it to happen but we want to know what\u2019s actually going to happen in three months\u2019 time. Are you actually going to make sure in three months\u2019 time that people don\u2019t have the issue of RUC going up? Because all the clauses in this bill that talk about the period of time where people can buy RUC are on the presumption that there\u2019s only a three-month window. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere is no way that the Labour Party, their Cabinet, is going to sit down in three months\u2019 time and bring RUC in and excise taxes back to their full level. They can\u2019t, because inflation is going to be out of control then. They\u2019re going to have spent so much in the Budget that inflation is going to be out of control. Then they\u2019re going to whack on another 30c or 40c on excise duty? They\u2019re going to whack on another RUC to farmers and other trucking companies and that? No way. How are they going to do that? That will spike inflation after the Budget and that will destroy their political ambitions. The Labour Party should be worried, because they never thought of that when they did this grand plan and this grand policy. They thought it was a short-term thing where they look like they\u2019re great. But look at the financial implications of what they\u2019ve done. They are going to create a spike in inflation in this country, post the Budget, that will destroy the New Zealand economy, put interest rates up, make people lose their homes. People will lose their jobs. That\u2019s the reality the Labour Party\u2019s walked into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1860544d4e4799808490339dfab142\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1860544d4e4799808490339dfab142\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00223958f0e301c44d608055a179529adcb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223958f0e301c44d608055a179529adcb4\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just for those at home that were watching that, if it wasn\u2019t immediately clear, the National Party intend to vote for this bill and they recognise that New Zealanders need a bit of assistance at the pump.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EJust to correct what was said by the Hon David Bennett\u2014it was total nonsense, utter tripe, what he was saying. It was signalled at the time of the announcement\u2014the very press release that Matt Doocey spent six minutes debating\u2014that this change was signalled at the time. It was signalled at the time that it would require legislative change in order to achieve this. And yet, tonight, we\u2019ve heard, from different National Party speakers, different positions. We\u2019ve heard from Mr Doocey that he\u2019s worried that this bill will cut expenditure on roads. Yet Mr Brown has introduced a Supplementary Order Paper that would increase the cut of that very tax\u2014they\u2019re not even talking to each other. We heard from Mr Doocey that this bill should have gone to select committee. Yet, at the time, the transport spokesperson of the National Party said, \u201CThe Government must introduce urgent legislation in the next sitting block.\u201D Here we are, in the next sitting block, bringing through urgent legislation, and what does Mr Brown do? Whinge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAnybody that is watching Parliament TV tonight will see that all the National Party are doing is trying to appeal to their core voters whilst they\u2019re actually supporting this bill. And if they really wanted to see this get through the House, they would just stop the politicking, stop the filibustering, and let\u2019s just get on with making a change that New Zealanders want to see happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u00227c728f9dd98f4a619e493a4f69fa0925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c728f9dd98f4a619e493a4f69fa0925\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito, Madam Speaker. Firstly, can I just correct or address an earlier contribution or k\u014Drero by Mr Simeon Brown around the cancellation of \u014C2NL\u2013that claim is incorrect. I can confirm that \u014C2NL is going ahead\u2014we call that \u014Ctaki to Levin\u2014having lived in Levin last year, when Hon Grant Robertson came to the Southward Museum in the \u014Ctaki electorate and spoke to the K\u0101piti Coast Chamber of Commerce and confirmed that the \u014Ctaki to Levin road will be going ahead. Just like we completed Transmission Gully, just like we\u2019ll be completing Peka Peka to \u014Ctaki by the end of the year; and then we start \u014Ctaki to Levin. We\u2019ve also been really lucky that we\u2019ve already started some of the work there and we\u2019ve already started to acquire some of the land. So, fantastic news. Something that I have lobbied really hard for, along with a lot of other people in the \u014Ctaki electorate. So great news: \u014C2NL, I can confirm, will be going ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut to speak again to the bill. Again, this bill is in response to what we know is happening at the moment globally. And, for us, while unfortunately we can\u2019t control Russia invading Ukraine\u2014and my heart goes out to the people in Ukraine at this time\u2014and we can\u2019t control the global COVID response and pandemic, what we can do, and are taking action on, on this side of the House, is what we can control, and that is making sure that we support Kiwis during this time. And that is around this fuller package, and certainly in this bill, is around making sure we reduce the road-user charges by 36 percent, especially for our diesel drivers. And that goes towards the bigger package of not just our 1 April changes, not just the stuff we\u2019ve already built on, like the winter energy payments, the free lunches in schools, but it also means that the half-price public transport and the 25 percent off petrol will go along with this, and put a bit more p\u016Btea in our wh\u0101naus\u2019 pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6841b79b4674296b37d077eb7ab55af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6841b79b4674296b37d077eb7ab55af\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. You can tell a Government that\u2019s in trouble when their backbenchers start announcing and promising roads. The Minister sits there, ashen-faced, worried about what the next backbencher is going to say. Helen White\u2019s been talking about crime in Auckland Central. This one is the one-term MP for \u014Ctaki. She\u2019s worried that she\u2019s not coming back in 15 months, and so she\u2019s starting to make policy up on the hoof, and that\u2019s just the way it\u2019s going to be. The ill-discipline and scared reaction of the Labour Party we\u2019ve seen tonight being expressed, if only by the twitchiness of the senior whip, who seems determined\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17f4321e7554247af3520162dbb63c1\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Under pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6723c2d2d94d78af74a67c0c5ffd4d\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who\u2019s not only under pressure but seems determined to think that his whip-ly duties extend to this side of the House, and I\u2019m sorry to inform\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f1de65e8824b23aec9005bea9edad9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I invite the member to come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02af0634ae645718c4fb5aee30414e3\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m responding, Madam Speaker, to interventions made by previous Government members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b976f434ba8244b4af57c5c9fd5ffb32\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: And now I\u2019m inviting you to come back to the second reading of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ce972c2f824504b2a320f3ff6d7ad6\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: This is a bill that was created as a result of a bad poll\u2014panic-stricken, bad poll. Refusing to concede until they absolutely had to that there was a cost of living crisis confronting the squeezed middle in New Zealand, this Government panicked. So they did and reverted to type, which was to announce an announcement\u2014as my colleague Simeon Brown so clearly enunciated in terms of setting out the time frame, which is important to repeat because we didn\u2019t have a select committee hearing into this piece of legislation, and just because the transport spokesman in the National Party calls for urgent legislation doesn\u2019t mean that it be passed by urgency. It means that it be introduced to Parliament urgently and then go through a normal parliamentary process. But that\u2019s not good enough for this Government. That\u2019s not good enough for this Government. They want to do things on a knee-jerk, panic-stricken basis, just to get a quick media shot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo aggressions commenced on 24 February in the Ukraine, and that followed weeks of anticipation from international media, energy commentators, all sorts of people, even New Zealand domestic commentators, in the prelude to hostilities commencing on 24 February, were saying if Putin acts in the Ukraine there will be a negative impact on petrol prices and diesel prices in New Zealand. So it\u2019s not like this came as any sort of surprise. So hostilities started on 24 February, and on 14 March this announced change was made, and then it wasn\u2019t until 23 March that finally a workshop was held with the New Zealand Transport Agency to try to figure out what to do and how to handle the issue relating to road-user charges, because it became apparent very quickly that something needed to be done because it wasn\u2019t quite as simple as just simply lowering the price at the pump as it is with petrol. But what intervened between 24 February and the workshop and the announcement on 14 March was, of course, the public opinion poll that came out on 10 March. So this is the time line, and when members opposite join the dots together, as the New Zealand public have so carefully and easily drawn the dots together, they know exactly what the motivation for this piece of legislation is and why it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo this is a temporary measure that sooner or later is going to have to be reversed. The ACT contribution from Simon Court was correct. New Zealanders will be grateful for some small mercy of reduction\u2014some small breadcrumbs really; just crumbs from the table of the massive expenditure that Government has spent. But don\u2019t forget, Mr Court, where this money is coming from. This isn\u2019t actually a reduction; this is smoke and mirrors stuff. This money has been diverted from the COVID fund\u2014diverted from the COVID fund. So that\u2019s money that had already been printed or borrowed in the name of our children and grandchildren, who will be paying for it for the rest of their working lives, to fund a temporary announcement to get the Labour Government off the hook following one bad poll. Well, the sad news for the Labour Government is that the polls are probably\u2014I would think and I\u2019m not a betting person; they\u2019re going to get worse. So we can expect a whole lot more of these sorts of decisions in the weeks and months to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMembers like the one-term wonder from \u014Ctaki and Helen White from Auckland Central, they\u2019re going to continue speaking out because they know that their only lifeboat is actually to find a voice, to be independent, to actually speak on behalf of real New Zealanders and to actually put aside the speaking notes that come from the Labour Party\u2019s research unit and start thinking and speaking for themselves, because that\u2019s their only hope of redemption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo the National Party is going to support this legislation because, as our colleagues on this side have so clearly said, we are grateful on behalf of New Zealanders for even a few crumbs that this Labour socialist Government has deigned to bequeath to hardworking New Zealanders who have suffered so long and so hard under the policy agendas of this Government who are going to continue to be the squeezed middle and continue to be suffering the cost of living crisis. We are grateful on their behalf for these small crumbs and this small gratitude that the benevolent Government has shown them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00224c574b7c2df74614aef2834202e24bc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c574b7c2df74614aef2834202e24bc7\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to support the second reading of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. I think that the New Zealand public may be well confused if they were listening to the Opposition at this point. I think I heard David Bennett suggest that in fact this was not a good idea because it would be inflationary. This is a very good idea. I also think I recall that the Leader of the Opposition party talked about a 10c reduction in the payment of fuel\u2014this is a 25c reduction, on average. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd what this Government did was exactly what it announced. When it announced it, it said that the legislation was complex in this area, and it has found a way of doing that and delivering to the public exactly what they need at this time, which is actually cheaper fuel and cheaper transport in the same package. Which means that I am extremely pleased to see that people who buy 1,000 kilometres will save $28, and that will be real money\u2014real money in real people\u2019s pockets. Not hot air, which is what I\u2019ve heard a lot of from the Opposition. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c5c305eae44245778c52b3fd2f64e478\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000598\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022123fdc618df6494eb8d6934f59128c32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022123fdc618df6494eb8d6934f59128c32\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill is set down for committee stage forthwith. I declare the House in committee for consideration of that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a8bf50c4fd748d7bb24c5c929249ab6\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5afc8d8fd974d518619a9cbde427f2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5afc8d8fd974d518619a9cbde427f2c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee on the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. I will remind members that they are able to participate remotely, so if you are on Zoom and want to take a call, please put the call into the chat. If you want to raise a point of order, you should also use the chat function if you\u2019re coming in remotely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAmendments have been lodged on this bill, and these are available on the Table and on the House papers page. If we receive new tabled amendments, I\u2019ll advise members so that they can refresh the House page to see the new amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFinally, it would be helpful for members to ask multiple questions, if they have them, of the member in charge during their call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db59ed0205fc41019b0a2e4c65d918c9\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6aa1f1e4b3043049223a0dd919eba60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6aa1f1e4b3043049223a0dd919eba60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: So we come first to clause 1. This is the debate on clause 1, the title. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00225de22f78057948b894c729d0579118fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225de22f78057948b894c729d0579118fb\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on this bill during the committee stage. We come to clause 1, which is the title provision, if I am correct, because this bill doesn\u2019t have multiple parts, meaning that ultimately it requires each clause to be considered one by one. The title provision says that this bill is the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. I think the more apparent name for this bill would be the \u201CRoad User Charges (Government Panicked at 10 March Poll) Amendment Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022220dd0afbb4f4506aa9554695461a3a1\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson. We\u2019re less than one minute in, and this speaker is already in breach of Speakers\u2019 rulings. It\u2019s very clear that a debate on the title is to be really defined, and any contributions and any suggestions of amendments are to be serious and are not to be used as a critique\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d638f7fb24d4f87b0338ab64bfb7564\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, serious? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49b6e9a282a40beae37b6213993b161\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, all right. Thank you. Yes, I\u2019ve\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022160120e47fb84200be4b160cf41698d8\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: They are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcad59980c8c4b6aa193fa0a8102291f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you serious? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535fd98470d5480994ed51c1a2754fd6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea3f7f590651409980b9bbc205402e6c\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It says in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c1d4dc367248abac5caebc26a8f9a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much\u2014thank you. Simeon Brown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc75994a7b7464db7e791abb67b5c5d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. The point I\u2019m making here is that as we\u2019ve already traversed through this debate, this piece of legislation has been rushed into Parliament here, not in response to the war in Ukraine, but in response to a poll which came on 10 March, which this Government responded to, panicking, and made an announcement, but failed to actually think through the details of what was actually needed to deliver on that. So I propose that we amend it with a different name on that particular clause. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef5f4aa08e794886980a8896db7b2a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef5f4aa08e794886980a8896db7b2a3c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon David Bennett, but in doing so, I would just advise the committee that the House is in urgency. Members haven\u2019t had a chance to view the bill and haven\u2019t had much notice. There haven\u2019t been any public submissions, so therefore clause 1 will be a more fulsome debate around the bill, but I still will require members to address the bill that is in front of them. They\u2019ve had two readings in which to provide a very full summary of the context of it, and when I\u2019ve been chairing I\u2019ve been listening to that very carefully. So clause 1, yes\u2014fulsome. Please address the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022881ea764b991410dac26f329ad940e68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022881ea764b991410dac26f329ad940e68\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The word \u201Ctemporary\u201D is what I want the Minister to answer: does he perceive that is for three months, and is it a permanent change or is it going to be a temporary change? If it is a temporary change, we just need a yes or no that in three months\u2019 time, everybody knows that there will be a spike in petrol prices and there will be a spike in road-user charges. That\u2019s the simple question. That is the first question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe second question is: if it lasts longer than three months, where does the funding come for the transport budget? Is it still going to come from the potential COVID fund, or is there some other way that the Minister has envisaged that this non-temporary bill could actually be funding transport in New Zealand, because we have hypothecation of transport funding in this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe third question, which is another simple question, is: if it does go for further than three months and it is going to be funded through hypothecation, what projects will then be cut? What will the Government stop doing in transport to actually make this balance? Does that mean the end of Auckland light rail? Does that mean the end of that wonderful road we heard about in \u014Ctaki? Does that mean the end of the cycle bridge that we know will come one day under this Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhat are the answers to those three simple questions? They are very simple questions, and I\u2019m going to repeat them again for the Minister so he doesn\u2019t try and fluff them and not answer them: is this temporary for three months or will it be longer\u2014that\u2019s the first question\u2014the second question is: if it is longer, where\u2019s the money coming from, and the third question is: if the money\u2019s not coming from the hypothecation and the money\u2019s not coming from COVID funds, then what is he going to cut to balance the budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00224ff347a72b2f42af9a963674816876c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ff347a72b2f42af9a963674816876c8\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E In respect of the debate on clause 1, which relates to the title, the use of the word \u201Ctemporary\u201D has its usual meaning, which is \u201Cnot permanent\u201D and is an accurate title for the bill. To the extent that the member raised any other matters of substance, which was to a very small extent, those are matters which would be addressed in the debate on clause 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022131e518885f94c369ef9f38ff25c3ce8\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002266ad7f879e994d13ade438a293bd24a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266ad7f879e994d13ade438a293bd24a8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to clause 2, which is the debate on clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D. This is a very narrow, focused debate. The question is that clause 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022b54664765ce042898ea3d1e0a13e06d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b54664765ce042898ea3d1e0a13e06d0\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on the second clause in this bill, and the question I\u2019ve got of the Minister, in relation to the commencement clause\u2014it says, I think, that it comes into force the day after the date of Royal assent. However, in clause 4, the actual road-user charge (RUC) reductions don\u2019t become available until 21 April. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister to clarify why there is a difference in those two dates, and why the Minister is not also making the RUC reductions come into force and available to New Zealanders\u2014which is the intent of this piece of legislation\u2014at a much sooner date, such as the day after the date of Royal assent. I have a tabled amendment on the Table which will address this issue in clause 4, but it is, of course, also relevant to clause 2, which deals with the date of commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI think most New Zealanders would be wondering why we\u2019re here in urgency today, passing this legislation, but, actually, the reality is that this is still not going to become available until 21 April. That comes back to my point: this announcement was made and the delivery is going to take 38 days from the announcement when under the existing piece of legislation, the Minister can issue regulations and have the new RUC rates come in in 42 days. It\u2019s only saving four days. We could potentially save some more days and get that reduction out to consumers, out to taxpayers, much sooner if we amended clause 4 on the date at which it comes into force. As I tie that back through to the date of commencement, I look forward to the Minister\u2019s response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaad50953d7c4f43be584ab5094480a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaad50953d7c4f43be584ab5094480a1\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E As the member himself said in his closing comments, his comments mainly related to the provisions of clause 4, which we will get to in due course. What I would say in respect of clause 2 is the fact that the Act comes into effect the day after it receives Royal assent enables Waka Kotahi, as the collector, to very quickly get on and set up the systems that it will need to have in place in order for the reductions to then come into effect shortly thereafter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226150f2f1ded847da9e9d982d856bae4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226150f2f1ded847da9e9d982d856bae4b\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Notwithstanding the questions that my colleague Simeon Brown has asked about clause 4, we\u2019re debating clause 2, which is the commencement, and it says that the Act comes into force on the day after the Royal assent. Now, given that we are debating this bill through all stages under urgency, my question to the Minister of Transport is relating to the presence of the Governor-General and her warning: is she ready and standing by to sign tonight, or is she expecting to wait several days\u2014and if this whole piece of legislation is as urgent as the Government think it should be, what warning has the Government provided to ensure the prompt and efficient Royal assent be given?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e81dac28102c49df92ba4d2fdad35415\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e81dac28102c49df92ba4d2fdad35415\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The member for Coromandel, with all due respect, extends his authority a little too far if he believes that either he or I should be able to dictate the point at which the Governor-General provides Royal assent. That will be done through the usual process at Executive Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002278a68a7f772f4070b6e1fbade34cd356\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278a68a7f772f4070b6e1fbade34cd356\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the Minister, who I assume has read the Cabinet Manual and understands that the Governor-General only works at the discretion and the request of Ministers, can he confirm that he, first and foremost, understands this rather important constitutional element\u2014which I\u2019d be concerned if he did not\u2014and can he also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e15abb3c2a4d2d84667c4a98b6ba85\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The part we are addressing is clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D, which comes into force the day after the Royal assent. I would ask the member\u2014could he sit down, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284df6bf694034656af59106365b7c96a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2014I\u2019m just stretching my legs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a88a3c4deb430f8129f0957bc57579\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask the member to address clause 2 directly. So bring it back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f119aab754e943298c056a44a9cf5ab9\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I absolutely want to bring it back to clause 2 because it is the commencement, which requires Royal assent. So, very importantly, this is not a commencement based on a date. It is based simply on the act of a Royal assent, which requires the Governor-General, acting in the right of New Zealand\u2014and we have just had the Minister tell the committee of the whole House that the Governor-General is going to make a decision of when she decides to apply clause 2 in commencement. I think it\u2019s important, therefore, for the committee of the whole House to make sure that the Minister understands his duties under the Cabinet Manual and the constitution. So, once again, my question is very simple so that we can understand the application of clause 2 commencement: does the Minister understand that he and Ministers request the Governor-General to do Royal assent\u2014does he understand this very basic constitutional reality? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002294a171840fe947f1b0ab11b2e9947df3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294a171840fe947f1b0ab11b2e9947df3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members will be silent when the Chair is going through procedural measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bba15d65f9384063b513ec4155adc6ef\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb8ba6a7c301469cbc4b151893e3b9f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb8ba6a7c301469cbc4b151893e3b9f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to clause 3, which is the debate on clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D. The question is that clause 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8d93829225c49aaaef8822fd4866a46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8d93829225c49aaaef8822fd4866a46\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve got some questions to the Minister, so I\u2019m following the second reading where we were talking about the interventions to lower the cost of living. I wondered whether the Minister had seen any distributional impact analysis that this bill will have, or whether he\u2019s looking to seek for some. I\u2019m also interested in the Minister\u2019s analysis around the impact this is likely to have on emissions in our other local and international commitments to climate change and whether he thinks that this was the most effective intervention to try and achieve what the bill is trying to do regarding the cost of living and the context of the geopolitical conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002279959a0ee65e4f558930cfecdb8e1137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279959a0ee65e4f558930cfecdb8e1137\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not entirely clear that those matters do come within the ambit of clause 3, but, briefly, as a helpful Minister, I would note that, firstly, we would expect there to be a positive distributional impact and, secondly, that in respect of emissions, observations and advice from officials so far has tended to be that fuel consumption in New Zealand is relatively inelastic in respect of price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279a49f97e5614f1a85c48aac64002cdc\u0022\u003EClause 4  Amendments to Road User Charges Act 2012\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00222d4b62243f76480dba8b7739b81aef83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d4b62243f76480dba8b7739b81aef83\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the final debate: clause 4, \u201CAmendments to Road User Charges Act 2012\u201D. The question is that clause 4 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00223a0d2537f7eb4af095e82bc0e42d80aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a0d2537f7eb4af095e82bc0e42d80aa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I asked the Minister three questions earlier and he said he would answer them in clause 4, so we look forward to his answer. The questions are: he said that temporary means temporary, but does that mean three months, or does that mean a longer temporary time than three months? The second question is: where would the funding come from if it is longer than three months? The third question is: what projects will be cut if there is not hypothecation funding after three months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2ca0b7b4be549faa0c80dd5ba77dbf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2ca0b7b4be549faa0c80dd5ba77dbf5\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on this clause of the bill. I want to bring the debate back here to the question I asked the Minister earlier in relation to this temporary reduction, which won\u2019t begin until 21 April 2022. That\u2019s still about 16 days away from this bill being passed tonight. The question I want to have answered is: why is this temporary reduction, which is being passed in urgency through Parliament tonight\u2014why will road users out there who have diesel vehicles still have to wait another 16 days before they can get a reduction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been through this time frame a number of times tonight, but, effectively, by passing this bill tonight, the Minister is simply bypassing the provisions in the bill by four days. He\u2019s reducing the time frame for the reduction of a road-user charge (RUC) by four days. Now, I think for most people out there, they would sort of be scratching their head and wondering whether this Government had actually thought about the implications of their announcement when they announced this on 14 March, and I think the reality is that most New Zealanders realise that they didn\u2019t. So I\u2019ve got a tabled amendment which will fix that. It will bring the new rates in on the day after this bill receives Royal assent. That\u2019ll be great news for taxpayers and people who need to purchase their new RUC. They\u2019ll be able to get this reduction much, much sooner than this Government is willing to do, which is still another 16 days away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe second question I have is following on from my colleague Hon David Bennett. It is a question around the potential extension of these temporary reductions, and I think this is a very important question because from what I understand from reading this bill, is this bill allows for the Minister to, effectively, shorten or extend the temporary reduction period to a date specified in the order. Now, that is quite concerning by the fact that not only could there be\u2014well, I mean, it could be good news for consumers that it could be extended, but it could also be shortened. Does the Government have any intentions around actually reducing the time frame that they have promised? I imagine they haven\u2019t, but what is their intention around extending that, because I think New Zealanders should deserve some clarity around that, and will that also apply to excise for fuel for petrol users for their vehicles? What are the implications around public transport and the announcements they\u2019ve made around that as well? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELook, there are other questions which I think need to be asked around this as well in terms of the issue regarding the people who may have purchased RUC over the last three weeks since the announcement was made and how that works\u2014I think my colleague Matt Doocey made a number of questions during his contributions\u2014and some clarity around how that will work for heavy-vehicle users and also light-vehicle users; what the cost of the licence\u2014I think it\u2019s the overlap licence\u2014will be, and what percentage of their savings will be used up in actually paying the administration fee, and whether the Government has actually considered waiving that fee during this three-month period to ensure that consumers aren\u2019t, effectively, having some of that benefit taken away from them by the fact that they may have to actually use that particular service in order to be able to benefit from what this legislation is doing. I look forward to the Minister\u2019s answers to those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002210ed70102419456b820f6c6a66425563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210ed70102419456b820f6c6a66425563\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the members for their questions. In respect to the questions that relate to the period of the reduction and the date of commencement of the reduction, I would say a couple of things in response. The first is that when the Government made its announcements on 14 March, they were on the basis of a three-month reduction applying across fuel excise duty (FED), road-user charges (RUC), and public transport reduced fares, and that is what is being provided for in this bill. The date of commencement of 21 April allows Waka Kotahi, as the collector, to establish its systems to ensure that that runs out very smoothly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that there is no disadvantage to RUC users here because they still get a three-month reduction, which is comparable to the three-month reduction that FED users get. Also the overlap provisions\u2014which have been canvassed in debate already\u2014mean that people who purchase RUC licences in the period beforehand have the opportunity to also obtain benefit during this three-month period, so there is no particular disadvantage there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI note that Mr Brown\u2019s amendment on this issue has a significant flaw and would create an inconsistency in that it brings forward the date with no consideration to the fact that the collector has to set up its systems to run it smoothly. But notwithstanding that, this would create an inconsistency because it would give a greater benefit to people getting the lower RUC rate than people who get the lower FED rate, which has been set for three months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn respect of Mr David Bennett\u2019s questions, the bill as it stands establishes a three-month period, and that is what the Government intends for at this point. But it provides an ability through Order in Council to extend that if the Government believes that is justified, but the Government has not made any decision in that respect at this stage. What the Government has done has been to back the reductions to FED and RUC with $350 million to ensure that Waka Kotahi continues to have the same level of funding that it enjoyed were these reductions not to be in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00221c7f7bf7fdbe48f49fb0e12a304db69a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c7f7bf7fdbe48f49fb0e12a304db69a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Minister, for those answers, and that clarifies some of that. Just one of the other issues is that it seems like the Labour Party has assumed all businesses, especially in the road-user charges (RUC) case, run at the same time, but some are seasonal businesses\u2014for example, in the primary sector\u2014and my colleague from the ACT Party will no doubt want to take a question on this as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAn agricultural contractor, for example, has just finished their autumn work, which is large part of their business. Over the winter, they will be doing very little, and so the next few months they will have little contracting use and little use of RUC, whereas over the last six to eight weeks, they\u2019ve done maize silage and other things like that and will have had a massive transport bill. How will that relate? They\u2019re going to get a discount for the period of time they\u2019re not working, essentially, and having to pay huge RUC at the time that they\u2019re most busy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI think the Minister assumes every truck is on the road every day for 12 months in the year, and there is no continuity of business, or up and down of a business. He thinks it\u2019s all continuous and there\u2019s no peaks and troughs in how a business operates. I think it\u2019s completely unfair for our rural agricultural contractors that they now will actually have been paying huge amounts in RUC, and through their winter period will actually now be, effectively, subsidising the transport network. It\u2019s the same with Fonterra and other players like that. The winter milk is very small compared with the spring need for transport and even the autumn need for transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo what about businesses that are actually going to be negatively impacted, because RUC is not something that they may be having as a continuous amount because their business fluctuates? Has the Government given the ability for businesses to have fluctuation and to be able to look at it as a three-month period over a 12-month process, as often happens in other tax cases like income tax and suchlike, or is this going to be a hard and fast \u201CYou\u2019ve got no RUC over the winter. Suck it up.\u201D approach by the Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo would he please answer that question\u2014has he even thought of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcc2d4b5076c46b380de69e9b9e12976\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcc2d4b5076c46b380de69e9b9e12976\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to call the ACT member, but he\u2019s sat down, so I call Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. If you want the call, just keep calling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00225b992090597d4d1ebfc6a617294d261d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b992090597d4d1ebfc6a617294d261d\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It pays to stand up nice and early. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EJust in the spirit of not filibustering, I\u2019ll keep my contributions brief. I was keen to unpack the assertion by the Minister around the expectations he had around this bill having a positive distributional impact. I wanted to understand what is that being based on, who\u2019s going to benefit from this\u2014is it lower-income people or which groups is he expecting to sort of benefit the most, proportionately\u2014and have there been any other alternative interventions considered that perhaps could have a more equitable distributional impact that, unfortunately, may have not been brought forward by the Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022389edc07181a476eb541ca071a095b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022389edc07181a476eb541ca071a095b80\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Just addressing a couple of the questions that have been raised by members, starting with Mr Men\u00E9ndez March. My expectation is that there would be a positive distributional impact, and that is because transport costs will tend to be a higher proportion of the total household costs that are faced by a person or a household on a low income than they are for a person or a household on a high income. Therefore, any reduction in those costs will have a bigger proportionate impact on that low-income person or household.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn respect of Mr David Bennett\u2019s question about seasonal businesses: the bill is as it is written. The reduction applies for the three-month period between 21 April and 21 July, and I would note to the extent that a business is not purchasing diesel through that period or is purchasing a lesser amount of diesel through that period, they are not going to be facing the cost spike that we are observing at the moment that this policy is designed to mitigate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3654ebce57a4c7b81d955d8390cc36b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3654ebce57a4c7b81d955d8390cc36b\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, I have a number of questions just relating to the departmental disclosure statement. I\u2019m just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220913fcacaba049d2af07d1363286f0d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member, I\u2019m assuming, is about to ask questions on clause 4 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a182d7f857a48d390177273405aaa82\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, Madam Chair: clause 4. The departmental disclosure statement says there was no regulatory impact analysis undertaken, and what I\u2019m interested in is what is the cost to administer the temporary reduction in the road-user charges scheme, what is the cost to the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA), how many additional staff will be required to administer it at the agency, and will they be employed on a fixed term or casual contracts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat is the cost to the agents who administer this scheme\u2014that\u2019s where people go to buy road-user charges, say, from their local Vehicle Testing New Zealand or wherever they buy them from in their local town\u2014and what information has NZTA or the Minister received about the cost to businesses to participate in this scheme? Just having had a look at the information provided by Transporting New Zealand offering to assist Waka Kotahi develop a simple scheme that\u2019s easy to administer, it seems that what\u2019s being proposed here in the bill is quite different. So my question to the Minister is: what is the cost to business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo three questions there, and my fourth question is: what alternatives were considered by Waka Kotahi NZTA when coming up with a scheme to give temporary relief to those businesses who need to purchase road-user charges? Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002233fe8b5fd98c4742aeeed64e81769af5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233fe8b5fd98c4742aeeed64e81769af5\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. As signalled by my earlier contributions, I think it\u2019d be important if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind tying off just some of the questions around the road-user charges (RUC) collector, whether the Minister thinks there\u2019ll need to be an increase in the number of RUC collectors to facilitate this initiative, and a specific question around new section 42E in clause 4, at \u201Cb\u201D in the formula, where it says that the RUC collector considers what would have been \u201Creasonable to purchase\u201D. I think it would be helpful for the committee to have a bit of detail about what will drive that decision. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00225c6925e0bfd243b88f5fd43058ab91ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c6925e0bfd243b88f5fd43058ab91ce\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E In response to a couple of those questions, the administration costs to Waka Kotahi as the collector are estimated at approximately $2.15 million and they will be met by the overall funding envelope of $350 million that the Government is providing. There\u2019ll need to be a small number of additional staff who are employed to oversee the system. I believe that might be in the vicinity of around about eight to 10 temporary staff for the duration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn terms of costs to businesses, these are very limited indeed. The cost of purchasing a licence depending on the circumstances is around $3 to $7, depending on the type of licence, which is much more than offset by the benefits of the reduction that is in place here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn respect of new section 42E and Mr Doocey\u2019s question about Waka Kotahi\u2019s ability to conduct assessments, I note that this is something that Waka Kotahi does in the normal course of events within the RUC system, so there\u2019s a well-developed understanding of how they do that, and, really, I think the answer to Mr Doocey\u2019s questions are in the following parts of new section 42D, is it, we\u2019re talking about\u2014new section 42E, which outline the measures that Waka Kotahi will consider. This can include the advice that Waka Kotahi has provided to the public and can include a consideration of the purpose and intent of this piece of legislation in terms of understanding what is unreasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said publicly, there is a bit of a common-sense thing here. If someone regularly purchases a 5,000 kilometre licence for a three-month period and then suddenly pops up and wishes to purchase a 25,000-kilometre licence, then there would be a question to be asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00228130a19934f84579b96d47ae2e11dfd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228130a19934f84579b96d47ae2e11dfd5\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, just with reference to your previous answers that the cost to administer would be about $2.15 million, has any consideration been given during the development of this proposal\u2014because I understand it\u2019s happened very quickly\u2014to what more fundamental reforms of the road-user charging (RUC) system could be undertaken to simplify it, because it\u2019s clearly become far more administratively complex to manage over the years since it was first introduced in the 1990s. So is there any work being undertaken or any lessons that have been learnt, any insights gathered, from this rapid development of a policy which will help inform the agency as to, potentially, how to reform the RUC system going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002244c5e608c2614c1093275f13f8593cdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244c5e608c2614c1093275f13f8593cdb\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I just want to continue with one last line of questioning around the road-user charges (RUC) assessments. The Minister of Transport has mentioned a common-sense approach being taken. How will the New Zealand Transport Agency be actually determining which people who purchase RUC licences\u2014will they have a number of triggers inbuilt into the systems to actually check that they are being reasonable in their purchases? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI guess my question is: of that $2.1 million, I think, that was referred to by the Minister as to the cost, what percentage of that cost is actually going to be undertaken in terms of this assessment process, with people with clipboards making determinations of whether someone is purchasing too much, too little, or enough? What is \u201Creasonable\u201D, because I think we would all want to say\u2014yes\u2014we don\u2019t want people necessarily going in abusing a reduction but also we also want to ensure that we\u2019re not overburdening people with regulation and people with clipboards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOn that point, I guess the question which we started with\u2014which the Minister hasn\u2019t answered\u2014is around: is the Government intending to extend this? Because if they are intending to extend this by another three months, well, then, the issue of actually going in there and determining whether someone is purchasing a reasonable number of kilometres or not is actually less important because the Government may wish to extend this temporary reduction for some time. So, actually, what is unreasonable under a three-month period may not be unreasonable under a six-month period, and, therefore, a lot of bureaucratic time gets spent only then to have to, potentially, do it again. So I think some clarity from the Government could actually not only be helpful to consumers but also be helpful in terms of just reducing some of that bureaucratic stuff which is going to take place, and, potentially, even save some money for the taxpayer. I look forward to the Minister\u2019s answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00223cbccc27b9dd47c8a20d3a0e773f160e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cbccc27b9dd47c8a20d3a0e773f160e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to Mr Court\u2019s question: no, the broader future of the road-user charges (RUC) system is not being considered as part of this work. But the Ministry of Transport does have a broader policy programme in place around the broader future of the transport revenue system, including RUC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn answer to Mr Brown\u2019s question about what the triggers will be for Waka Kotahi to conduct assessments: that will, effectively, be managed by them operationally and won\u2019t be set by this legislation. In terms of the cost of the assessment within the $2.15 million: I don\u2019t have precise information about that, but I understand it\u2019s probably a minority of that, and I have answered the question already about whether the Government intends to extend the three months. The legislation as is put down is for three months. The Government has not at this point considered extending it further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00222af90703057e4d28895e3888b24513f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222af90703057e4d28895e3888b24513f9\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Just two quick questions for the Minister at this point. The first is: does the Minister consider this to be a fossil fuel subsidy? The second is: can he confirm that in three months\u2019 time, this subsidy will come off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002212b0009b550143b396ea6c24fcd1ab28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212b0009b550143b396ea6c24fcd1ab28\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E No, I don\u2019t consider it to be a fossil fuel subsidy, because, of course, neither fuel excise duty nor road-user charges are actually the cost of the fossil fuel in existence. They are a levy that is, effectively, added to the cost of the fossil fuel that is consumed to fund transport infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn respect of the second question, I think\u2014sorry, I\u2019ve just sort of lost the train slightly. I think it was a question about three months again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2f6d51447049378ffabc88ba5ee0a4\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Three months\u2014will it go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0eadc3ae9f8414ca9fbb2f6638d6b99\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Is it three months? So, yes, again, this has come up a couple of times in debate. The intention in the legislation is for this to be in place for three months. The Government has not considered extending it beyond that at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022175d25c8ed4c4a4ca27e7311b74ba93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022175d25c8ed4c4a4ca27e7311b74ba93c\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E With regard to the Minister\u2019s point about this not being considered a subsidy, it is, of course, the case, however, that these RUC charges, as well as the other charges on petrol, are\u2014from my understanding\u2014hypothecated in the Government\u2019s Budgets. I understand that with regard to this specific legislation change in the amendment and the regulatory changes made with regard to petrol, they have been backfilled with COVID-19 funding, but none the less this would have otherwise been a hole in the Government\u2019s budget which would have, effectively, been the equivalent of a subsidy, given that this is money now being made up from other pots of money within the Government coffers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I have two or three other questions for the Minister, and forgive the fact that I am appealing to a number of different resources on my desk at the moment. But it just may be of interest to other members in the committee that Aotearoa New Zealand is a member of what is called the Friends of Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform, which Aotearoa has been a part of, I might add, since the National Party was in Government and formed a review in 2015. It was established in June 2010, for those who are interested and following along at home. It is an informal group of non-G20 countries aiming to build consensus on the importance of fossil fuel subsidy reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, to that effect, and referring to the kind of mission statement inside of the Friends for Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform, is the Minister concerned that as New Zealand has historically considered itself a kind of leading member inside of the Friends of Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform, these moves keep domestic prices for oil, gas, and coal\u2014as have, typically, the other members of the Friends of Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform\u2014artificially low? I will leave it at that point for now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00227e490600e3b64c73bd5d7f9afa31b360\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e490600e3b64c73bd5d7f9afa31b360\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Just briefly in response: no, I don\u2019t share that concern, although I understand where the member is coming from. This policy is being implemented because we do have a real concern about some of the cost of living pressures that New Zealanders are facing. I repeat my earlier comment: to the extent that there\u2019s a reduction here, it\u2019s not actually a reduction on the cost of the fuel\u2014I know it seems like a fine distinction\u2014but it is a reduction on the levy that the Government places on that fuel. I think the contextual point that I can add that might give the member some additional comfort is that of course this is part of a broader package to reduce transport costs, and I\u2019m very pleased and proud that alongside this we\u2019ve also brought in half-price public transport fares, which I think do go some way towards incentivising people to travel in a way that is more climate-friendly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002262de1f2fe9d045efa0fd2ecddf9f73d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262de1f2fe9d045efa0fd2ecddf9f73d0\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Two questions, if I may, in building on some excellent contributions from my colleague Simeon Brown. I refer you to clause 4 and new section 42D in regards to when assessments may be issued. I\u2019m interested in a little bit of context from the Minister just around some of the considerations around enforcement of these assessments, and, in particular, the practicality of enforcement, taking into account such a short period of time at which these changes will be in effect, which has been noted as three months. So that\u2019s the first question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe second question is in relation to clause 4 and new section 42B. I think this was touched on a little bit earlier by one of my colleagues\u2014probably again, no doubt, Simeon Brown. But in regards to the cost-benefit analysis, or lack of, that was undertaken in regards to this portion, I would be interested from the Minister in terms of what was undertaken in that regard. What assumptions were made, in particular, around how the underlying fuel price would change over the next three months? I\u2019d be interested to understand, particularly, what officials had advised around the forecasted changes to fuel prices and how that allowed the Government to come up with the position of where they\u2019ve set the price in terms of that cost-benefit analysis. So those are the two questions and I\u2019d appreciate a response from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9ac87906a24c30a4cbf68777a1beb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9ac87906a24c30a4cbf68777a1beb5\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, earlier this evening I asked you whether you had considered, or whether officials had considered, alternatives to the methodology that was arrived at for the temporary reduction in the rates of road-user charges (RUC)\u2014in particular, the administration of them. Stakeholders have written, concerned that the RUC system is already excessively complex. It doesn\u2019t lend itself to the administration of discounts. The framework for claiming a discount will be resource-intensive for those businesses which need to claim discounts\u2014particularly for those that have many vehicles, like the kinds of road transport operators who, say, haul food to supermarkets, haul gravel from quarries to roading projects, or even who haul fuel around the country or concrete and other materials for building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo their concerns were quite valid and other methodologies were proposed, which included not necessarily giving a cash discount of 36 percent but, potentially, extending the kilometres available for road-user charges holders\u2014people who have already paid for kilometres\u2014extending them by 36 percent, because that seemed to be a much more efficient way of administering the scheme, by giving people who have already paid for road-user charges and who have large fleets of vehicles on the road bringing things to shops and building sites and to people\u2019s homes and who are using diesel-powered vehicles a 36 percent extra distance. So, Minister, those are concerns raised by the peak body, Transporting New Zealand. They\u2019re valid concerns and, Minister, could you please respond to those concerns\u2014that is, what alternatives were considered, and is this the most efficient scheme that officials considered could have been delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022847d268bba8e4b59a890caf77dbac437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022847d268bba8e4b59a890caf77dbac437\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Addressing the questions from Messrs Watts and Court, I believe, in respect of the question about how assessments might be carried out\u2014for Mr Watts\u2014I have addressed that now on several occasions to other members. In respect of the question about cost benefit, it doesn\u2019t necessarily fit into clause 4, nor do the questions about what forecast we might have about fuel prices going into the future. I think the best that I can say there is that the advice from officials is that there is still considerable uncertainty, given the international situation, as to how fuel prices will track, and so we believe, as a Government, it\u2019s best to be decisive and provide a good discount at this stage to assist people with those cost issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn respect of Mr Court\u2019s questions, my response, really, is that in a very short space of time, we have been able to stand up this reduction, which will be available to the sector. So while there are some complexities, I think the current system will work well and it will provide that 36 percent discount on road-user charge rates to the sector. It wouldn\u2019t necessarily be easier or simpler to do this in a different way like, for example, extending mileage. There would still end up having to be an interaction between those holders of road-user charge licences and the agencies to do that, so I don\u2019t know that there would actually be any efficiency there. I also note that, in fact, most large fleets are generally already on e-RUC, so the administration is automated and carried out by electronic service providers. So it\u2019s often quite a simple and seamless process for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae4d379f2f848dfb66213b7b15bd2b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae4d379f2f848dfb66213b7b15bd2b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I just want to remind the committee again that this is the debate on clause 4, which is amendments to the Road User Charges Act 2012, and while I have already indicated to the committee that due to the circumstances we are finding ourselves in this evening of not having had a select committee process, I will allow fulsomeness and some latitude. None the less, we are considering clause 4, and so your comments and questions must relate to amendments to the Road User Charges Act 2012. I\u2019m pretty sure that those members who are experienced can work their magic and stay within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb97cecffbb94d54ac75812e10b9e513\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb97cecffbb94d54ac75812e10b9e513\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So, in relationship to Part 4 and the changes to temporary reduction in rates of road-user charges, I just wanted to understand the precedent setting of these changes, in terms of this not being the first or the last time we\u2019re going to see geopolitical events have an impact in the cost of living or fuel. So does the Minister expect to have this bill, basically, set a precedent where every time a similar geopolitical event happens where there\u2019s an impact on the cost of living, we\u2019re relying on lowering the cost of fuel in order to help families meet the cost of living, or does he expect to explore other options that perhaps are more thoughtfully considered and where there is a better impact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00226e65b4ef4a43413d8f9dfabc10c9f6a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e65b4ef4a43413d8f9dfabc10c9f6a2\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022de1b06a4931944eab41d83529780e36c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de1b06a4931944eab41d83529780e36c\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Obviously this amendment bill relates to changes to or reductions of road-user charges, which does have substantial impacts as far as Budget goes. So, as far as Budget goes and as far as the Government coffers go, I do have a number of questions outstanding for the Minister. I\u2019d note that, before, the Minister indicated that he has an expectation with regard to distributional impacts. That expectation, of course, exists in the absence of an impact statement with regard to regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, as far as that goes and also the absence of a climate impact assessment, and noting that transport emissions are the fastest growing emissions profile in the country, and the upcoming emissions reductions plans, I ask the Minister with regard to whether he has any response to a statement from the Friends of Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform, of which Aotearoa New Zealand is a member. They say\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CFossil-fuel subsidies are a poor social welfare policy and counter-intuitively tend to benefit wealthier consumers.\u201D That is, of course, in quite contradiction to what the Minister has just outlined with regard to his expectations, particularly given that the Government announced these reforms, of which this amendment bill is a part, in relation to increased cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo too I\u2019d like to ask the Minister, with regard to the cost impacts of this legislation, about the alternative interventions that were considered. He himself just referenced in his contribution in response to other members in this part of the debate the fact that, of course, half-price public transport was part of the bundle of announcements. It is, of course, the case that in just doing a back of the napkin calculation, the fossil fuel subsidies that exist inside of that part of the announcement are more expensive than the cost of extending free public transport across Aotearoa for everybody for a year, and not for three months, as this bill would do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc68a6bd2614fbb9dc49d9ebfff4519\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eda725ecb0f4b75afb0099005cce6fd\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for a 25-odd cent reduction to road-user charges\u2014Dr Duncan Webb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EPertaining to both of those parts around, particularly, the cost of living, which, of course, this bill was introduced in order to progress, and, also, to the impacts on Government Budget, those are the two questions to the Minister around, particularly, does he agree with the Friends of Fossil Fuel Subsidy Reform that fossil fuel subsidies are a poor social welfare policy and counterintuitively tend to benefit wealthier consumers; secondly, did he consider those alternative interventions of similar Budget impact, noting that there was substantially less money set aside for that half-price fee public transport; and, perhaps, thirdly, on that distributional impacts point, as raised by the Minister just before, given that there wasn\u2019t any front-loaded consideration or officials\u2019 consideration of this, but on the expectations as laid out, will there in future be a review as to those distributional impacts in reality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00222aeb400d8b8a4fe481c0799e87255c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aeb400d8b8a4fe481c0799e87255c1c\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the questions from the last couple of members: firstly, to Mr Men\u00E9ndez March, the Government has responded to the circumstances that are in front of it and is providing relief to New Zealanders through these changes, including this bill. He\u2019s asked whether we would do it again in the event of a future event. The answer is that we would have to consider the particular circumstances at that time and come up with the best response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn answer to Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s questions, I\u2019ve been reminded that we did receive formal advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade that changes of this nature are not officially considered domestically or internationally to be fossil fuel subsidies. I do stand by my comment earlier on that these changes will be progressive in their distributional impacts. Consider family A on an annual household income of $60,000, who has to spend $100 on their fuel every week, and household B with household income of $200,000 per year, who does the same. The percentage impact on household A\u2019s budget will be more favourable as a result of this policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThese are the interventions that we\u2019ve considered in the transport space. We have put in place a range of other interventions as part of our 1 April package, but, obviously, they are not a part of this bill or this part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6d45680002b4e5ebd8e42266130d2b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6d45680002b4e5ebd8e42266130d2b3\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just wanted to go back to section 42C in clause 4 of the bill. I appreciate the Minister has commented before around the fact that the three-month duration, of which this clause kicks in, is not up for debate, but I wanted to understand why that\u2019s the case when there is a significant amount of reporting, particularly out of the US, that actually diesel prices are growing and going up considerably more than non-diesel, and also the fact that these supply chain issues of which ships and other factors that are using diesel are not looking to be returning back to normal levels any time soon. So in regards to section 42C in clause 4, I\u2019m wanting to get more context and comfort around how the Minister has come to the position that, actually, three months is all that is required, particularly in regards to diesel, when internationally all the signals are that things aren\u2019t moving back to normal by that point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002219e1b98d6baa483995425fdbb13f3c86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219e1b98d6baa483995425fdbb13f3c86\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m happy to answer the member\u2019s question briefly. Three months provides a good impact for household budgets, and we\u2019ve applied that consistently across this bill and the other changes to fuel excise duty and public transport. But, as has been noted in this debate, some flexibility has been provided, potentially, to vary that by Order in Council in the future if we determine that was justified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00227db7ae76c1e8488b9ba1c3eec4d554dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227db7ae76c1e8488b9ba1c3eec4d554dd\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002272435c74132449d594cd1441e0f7c044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272435c74132449d594cd1441e0f7c044\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simeon Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing new section 42A(1)(a) to read \u201Cbeginning on 14 March 2022\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220c3bb19752eb43da8752ad5ac6f483c6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022124c946623c94fd3b50a77bd1b1edbd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022124c946623c94fd3b50a77bd1b1edbd2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simeon Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing new section 42A(1)(a) to read \u201Cbeginning on the day after Royal assent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e7f6090f14a41cc9a1ad631171d7a09\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e730f3b5ba844bce9fdeb31b0c706d10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e730f3b5ba844bce9fdeb31b0c706d10\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simeon Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 to replace new section 42B(3)(a) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283a672f09de24010bd05046a0c59b8e9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d209d86a97144c31abdc524ecfaa3f08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d209d86a97144c31abdc524ecfaa3f08\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simeon Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 to insert new section 42CC be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d58af6fb1419424280fbf9a3b575925a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223643c7fc5caa4fb28b59b38fe2866e63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223643c7fc5caa4fb28b59b38fe2866e63\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Simeon Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 to delete new sections 42D and 42E be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223340fe9472044510846f483a970ccbd2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000715\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000716\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000717\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223a734203f643471986f541593fe45131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a734203f643471986f541593fe45131\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224802b5b52abd4bc3a1c13eb92c2c220a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022554b4eacd9db4e6ca0f05153a1b3a30a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022554b4eacd9db4e6ca0f05153a1b3a30a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ECan I thank members from across the House for their participation in the debate that we have worked through this evening. Some useful points have been brought out over the course of the discussion. I think the House has conducted itself generally well. You know, from the Opposition, there has been a little bit of a foot in both camps. They are voting in favour of this legislation and I thank them for that. At the same time, they sort of had to put up a bit of a show and try and raise points of opposition. I understand why that is, but none the less, I thank them and other parties who are supporting this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe reality that is in front of us, I think, was well summed up by the Government chief whip in a contribution that he made earlier, which is that I think that New Zealanders expect that in these extraordinary times sometimes we as a Parliament do just get on with it and do what is needed to support families and communities and households at challenging times. The reality is that this is an extraordinary era that we are living in, and I think sometimes we forget that in the midst of it. We are coming through two years of a global pandemic that has knocked international supply chains around enormously. We are dealing with a massively disruptive international event\u2014that being the abhorrent Russian invasion of Ukraine that is having profound impacts on supply chains, including the cost of fuel around the world. We do know that Kiwis have been feeling the pressure of that, and that is why it was very important for the Government to move forward with our package of changes to assist Kiwi families and businesses with those increased costs caused by the war in Ukraine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe package includes the 25c reduction to fuel excise duty, which we turned around within about 12 hours of a Cabinet decision on 14 March. It includes the half-price public transport fares which came in effect from 1 April, which have gone down very, very well in towns and cities all around New Zealand. It is reducing costs for those public transport users and is also incentivising and encouraging people to give public transport a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe third part of the package was the bill that we have been debating tonight\u2014that is the equivalent reductions to road-user charges (RUC). This will be of significant benefit to households, but, of course, our freight sector, as well, is a very significant user of diesel and therefore road-user charge licences, and we\u2019ll see that benefit going there and reducing costs that go down the supply chain. The benefits do add up over a three-month period. As I outlined in the debate earlier on, a person with a light vehicle who purchases a 5,000 kilometre licence will save around about $135. Now, that\u2019s not everything, but that is a useful contribution for a household that is dealing with some increased costs at this time, and combined with other changes that we have made, that will make a real difference. There is a broader package of initiatives that the Government has brought forward alongside these changes, including the 1 April changes to a range of supports that we are providing to families. When you put those together, they do make a real difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the arguments made by the one party in the House that has decided it will not support this piece of legislation, which is the Green Party. While I disagree with their position because I think it is important that we do deal with the very real cost of living challenges in front of people, I do understand where they are coming from, and I just wish to convey confidence that as a part of this package we are sending a clear message through the funding that we have provided for half-price public transport fares, to incentivise the mode-shift\u2014the shift towards more sustainable transport that we know is necessary. And, of course, we are working very hard on the emissions reduction plan that will be confirmed next month as well. So I just wish to acknowledge that point, despite disagreeing with their vote on this particular piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFinally, I do wish to acknowledge and thank officials from the Ministry of Transport and Waka Kotahi who have worked on this piece of legislation. In the course of this debate, we sort of sometimes heard from speakers that we should have just clicked our fingers and jimmied this up one or two days after the Cabinet made its decision on 14 March. In reality, it is not that simple to change a piece of legislation like this. The RUC system, as we heard from Mr Court, does have some complexities. There are around about 200 different rates applying to over 80 different kinds of vehicles. Those rates are currently set through a complex regulatory mechanism. There is a provision in place which means that those regulations can\u2019t be changed in a shorter period than 42 days. For officials to pull together a piece of legislation that deals with that, deals with the questions of transition that we have discussed over the course of this debate, deals with the questions of system integrity, and deals with the questions around equivalence\u2014because we determined that we wanted to make this reduction equivalent to the fare reduction, and that\u2019s not a totally simple or straightforward question, either. For officials to turn all of that around and come up with a well-formed piece of legislation that we will pass into law tonight and that within a couple of weeks will provide a significant reduction to Kiwi families and businesses, that is a good piece of work at a time when they are already very busy because of the Government\u2019s programme, and I do just wish to thank them for turning that around so quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo, once again, can I thank members of the House for their participation in this debate. We only move forward with urgency on issues like this when we really need to, and I thank members for their understanding of that\u2014for the most part\u2014and thank them for their participation in the debate, and say to Kiwis that this is a Government that does hear the challenges that people are facing with the cost of living and does hear the challenges around the increase in fuel costs because of the war in Ukraine. People can see that we are taking action and I trust and hope that this measure will be of assistance to Kiwi households and businesses. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002206e05761bce641c7a2e23594315c047c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e05761bce641c7a2e23594315c047c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002243779b11947e46a8b1fc2f7d4118f524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243779b11947e46a8b1fc2f7d4118f524\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a third call on this Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. I do just want to take a note of the Minister\u2019s comments there where he said, \u201CThe Government does listen; the Government does take note.\u201D When you read the preamble of this piece of legislation, we\u2019re all told this is a very serious, well-thought-through response to the energy crisis following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, when you actually boil it down, this is a panicked reaction to a bad poll on 10 March, which got the Government thinking, \u201CWe\u2019d better do something.\u201D And so what they decided to do was an announcement: \u201CWe\u2019re going to announce that we\u2019re going to reduce the fuel excise tax, and we\u2019re going to announce that in the future, we\u2019ll make an announcement about a reduction in the RUC rates.\u201D Well, we\u2019re now here, three weeks and one day on from that announcement, finally putting in place legislation to give effect to that announcement, and it still doesn\u2019t come into effect until 21 April, another 16 days from today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo when the Minister says this is a Government which listens and responds to the issues in front of them, actually what they\u2019re doing is they had to quickly come up with an announcement and then actually work through the detail. And so when the Minister says the Government needed to act with urgency\u2014well, if he really wanted to act with urgency, he would have actually done the work and made sure that this was ready to go when that announcement was made, not a whole three weeks later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo the National Party will support this piece of legislation. We do believe that New Zealanders need relief from the cost of living crisis that they are suffering under at the moment. And it didn\u2019t just start with the war in Ukraine. This has been building over the last few years with the cost pressures that this Government has been piling on hard-working New Zealanders\u2014rents up $150 a week, the price of fruit and veges up significantly, other cost pressures building over the last couple of years, inflation recorded at the end of last year at 5.9 percent. I see Mr Greg O\u2019Connor over there, rolling his eyes and saying, \u201CWell, actually, no, you\u2019re wrong.\u201D Well, actually, inflation was 5.9 percent at the end of last year, before the war in Ukraine started in February this year. So don\u2019t try and rewrite history. This Government needs to take some responsibility for this cost of living crisis that New Zealanders are suffering under. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo whilst this provides some relief, it doesn\u2019t go the full way to actually help to relieve the pressure New Zealanders are suffering from. National has a comprehensive plan. We want to cut taxes; we want to ensure that New Zealanders can keep more of what they earn so that they can spend that money on the areas where they are facing those cost of living pressures and make those choices themselves. So whilst we will not oppose this piece of legislation, we do propose a much more comprehensive plan which we know will make a real difference in New Zealanders\u2019 lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to note, and I made this point in my second-reading speech, that New Zealanders pay their road-user charges (RUC), and they pay their fuel excise because they want to get stuff done on our roads. They want to see things built, and under this Government, we\u2019ve had an infrastructure deficit which has been caused by this Government coming and cancelling road after road: Mill Road cancelled; East-West link cancelled; \u014Ctaki to Levin cancelled until the member for \u014Ctaki re-announced it this evening\u2014and I just want to congratulate her and Helen White for standing up from the backbenches and actually speaking for their electorates for once. Well, no\u2014Tauranga-Northern link cancelled, now they\u2019re restarting it; Whang\u0101rei to Marsden Point cancelled; we\u2019ve got Cambridge to Piarere, cancelled. This Government keeps cancelling; New Zealanders keep paying. They want a Government which will deliver; National will deliver. We\u2019ll be back in Government next year, and we will actually get things done and put people\u2019s hard-earned money to good use. We commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022300139a6ca694703b4d4359a4842dd19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022300139a6ca694703b4d4359a4842dd19\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E You always know when the Opposition fully support what our Government is doing on this side of the Table, this side of the floor, because they attack everything other than the piece of legislation that\u2019s before us. Because when you get a piece of legislation that has had to be brought to this House to do what Governments do, which is to mitigate the impacts of those overseas effects that we don\u2019t have any impact on. Sorry, Madam Speaker, is there\u2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ae42a220a14147ba10072c43a2571a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you. The House may be aware that we are experiencing some difficulties with the remote hybrid arrangements that we have. The techies are working hard to resolve them. It just sounds like there might have been a bit of audio spillage coming out of the tech room. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2f936e2984a4eee9521383d74019cbb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285db29343ec04b768830794b48de4bf3\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f12e73df8af47a684aad0a910fbd0dd\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, when you speak as much sense as I do, even through some sort of sound upset, it will still come across, I\u2019m sure, as a very sensible piece, a very sensible delivery. So I\u2019m very relaxed about that. So given the time constraints, I will say that we are now mitigating the impacts of overseas events which we have no control over, and we\u2019re ensuring that we minimise the effect of that on New Zealanders. For that reason, I have no hesitation in committing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00220dd5072c9f2c4486bea2fea309e254cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dd5072c9f2c4486bea2fea309e254cf\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the National Party in support of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be very clear: this bill\u2019s passing tonight in its third reading is a win for the National Party. The National Party got this win over the line for hard-working New Zealanders. The National Party prosecuted the issue of the cost of living crisis when the Government wouldn\u2019t even mention the word. They wouldn\u2019t even mention the word, and here we were, standing up for New Zealanders, speaking on their behalf because we knew things were getting tough for hard-working Kiwis, especially at the petrol pump. The Government has come kicking and screaming, dragging their heels. They wouldn\u2019t even accept there was a crisis, and then, what happened? A poll came from above and spoke to them, and isn\u2019t it interesting that the knee-jerk reaction was tax relief\u2014everything they had denied for days on end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELet this be a warning, because the public have now a taste for this\u2014for standing up for themselves and asking to keep their hard-earned dollar in the back of the pocket. So this won\u2019t be a one-off, let me predict. The public will start standing up more and demanding that they get more tax relief for the cost of living crisis. I will put money on it. I\u2019ll bet the Minister here a steak and cheese pie that very soon, this Government will address the creep in tax bracket scope that National has been calling for, because the call for tax relief will only grow louder and louder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s fascinating. Here they were, denying a crisis. Here they were saying that they would never give tax relief because, of course, it\u2019s not in their DNA. But, of course, there was a poll and, straight away, a knee-jerk reaction\u2014here we go. Well, I shouldn\u2019t say \u201Cstraight away\u201D, because, as we\u2019ve traversed over this night, it has been several weeks to drag them, kicking and screaming, into the House to deliver this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI fundamentally disagree with comments in the House tonight that when we say that maybe you could do more in tax relief, then that is incompatible with saying that we don\u2019t want roads cut, because, I\u2019ll tell you what, there\u2019s a lot more expenditure that could be targeted at the expense of tax relief. The light rail, for example\u2014tens of billions of dollars. I\u2019ll tell you what, being a South Islander and a regional New Zealander, nothing annoys hard-working regional New Zealanders more than watching their hard-earned road-user charges going into the National Land Transport Fund and being siphoned off for pet public transport projects in Auckland\u2014and, finally, they\u2019re getting some relief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut if you want to cut some things, don\u2019t make it the roads. How about the billions for light rail? How about the billions for a bribe for three waters? What about half a billion dollars for restructuring the health system in the middle of a pandemic? They\u2019re the things that need to be cut. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what, what great news it was, as my learned colleague Simeon Brown said, about the announcement of \u014Ctaki to Levin tonight? But isn\u2019t there some cynicism with that, because you\u2019d argue why did they delay it for six years if they were going to do it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u014Ctaki to Levin\u2014why has it been delayed, and the nerve of them to stand up and say, \u201CNo worries, it\u2019s going ahead.\u201D all because something\u2019s happening. It\u2019s called a poll\u2014it\u2019s called a shift of vote. Everything they\u2019ve rallied against\u2014watch them\u2014will all just blow away in the wind as they finally start listening to Kiwis, because you can\u2019t have your head in the sand too long and be arrogant like this Government is. New Zealanders were saying to them that things were getting too expensive, but those members couldn\u2019t say the word \u201Ccrisis\u201D. They were in denial until we had that poll. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo it is a good thing\u2014and good on them\u2014but, in fact, this wasn\u2019t their idea. It wasn\u2019t their decision. It was forced upon them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the other parties in the House that are voting for this bill tonight, because it\u2019s a good win for the Opposition. What has been good about it as well is those things we got accused of doing tonight: the pesky questions. Good on the pesky questions, because that\u2019s our job as parliamentarians. We stand up and we ask the hard questions. It\u2019s not fun in Opposition. You don\u2019t get to do much, because that\u2019s the job of the Government. That\u2019s why everyone wants to be on the Treasury benches. But, I\u2019ll tell you what, you don\u2019t walk away because it\u2019s tough. You stand up and you raise the issues, and that\u2019s what the Opposition has done with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what the Opposition has done tonight, and, I\u2019ll tell you what, the Opposition has got a taste for it now as well, just as much as the country has. Those members can sit there tonight and say, \u201COh, job done. We\u2019ve reduced the road-user charges for three months and cut the excise for three months and given a few bus tickets out.\u201D, but they know as much as we do on this side of the House that things are a lot more in train, aren\u2019t they? This is all where it\u2019s going to go, because Kiwis have now a taste for this. As the Hon David Bennett said tonight, \u201CReally? Is the Cabinet going to meet and decide to increase this?\u201D That will be fascinating, with all the income cost pressures we have and inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EOne thing I will leave the House with. I started with a quote in my speeches in the readings earlier on from Brad Olsen, who said, \u201CInflation isn\u2019t an offshore problem that New Zealand is caught up in.\u201D, because we all know it\u2019s not, is it? The issue here in New Zealand is domestic inflation. You only need to see the last quarter of 2021 to know that. But what I will leave the House and the Government with is another quote, from independent economist Cameron Bagrie. What he said was that \u201CNow is not the time for a big spending 2022 Budget. It will only add to the excess demand and inflation.\u201D Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u0022665cf630f1eb4643856f9089f6e31bbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665cf630f1eb4643856f9089f6e31bbd\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be talking on this, the third reading of this amendment bill. Can I say that it\u2019s absolutely a win for all New Zealanders. There seemed to be some confusion in the last speech, around who the winners were: it\u2019s all New Zealanders\u2014it means that if you\u2019re driving a car, a diesel-powered vehicle, or catching a bus, you\u2019re a winner under this plan. I want to acknowledge the transport Minister for his vision, and the Government executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EAlso, I just want to correct one other thing. It was halfway through last year\u2014so I encourage the Opposition to catch up on when things are announced: the \u014Ctaki to north of Levin expressway. So catch up, mate, by about nine months, and you\u2019ll be back on to it. But never mind; I\u2019m not one to remind people of their tardiness, but tonight is the night for something for the first time, as always.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ESo can I just say that this will impact on people\u2019s pockets and make a positive difference. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002284de6592c8fb44ffb1bec5fc969464f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284de6592c8fb44ffb1bec5fc969464f9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party, unable to support the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s been really interesting throughout this urgent process hearing members of the Opposition describe this bill as a knee-jerk reaction to the increase in the cost of living as if our communities haven\u2019t been suffering the effects of the inequality crisis for some time now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re disappointed that despite multiple reports such as the Welfare Expert Advisory Group that is now four years old recommending interventions to address inequality and the cost of living, what we\u2019re seeing is a subsidy to fossil fuels in order to try and address the increase in fuel price as a result of the war between Russia and Ukraine. We\u2019re concerned that this is setting a precedent when we\u2019re seeing inflationary impacts locally, and what we\u2019re calling on the Government to do is to explore other measures that are good for people and the planet, such as making public transport fully free, as well as improving the resilience of our freight infrastructure so that we\u2019re not so vulnerable to these sort of geopolitical events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re keen to see the study that will be conducted after to assess the impact of this bill. And we take the Minister at his word that this will have a positive distributional impact. We hope to see the extent of this and we\u2019ll keep campaigning to ensure that future measures to address the cost of living are ones that genuinely benefit those doing it the toughest. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002263634bf4db8646aeb2b381a03711d88e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263634bf4db8646aeb2b381a03711d88e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. This problem is a cost of living crisis. This bill won\u2019t solve the cost of living crisis. Simply reducing road-user charges on diesel-powered vehicles for a few months is a short-term solution. The underlying problems that the ACT Party is asking a Government to solve\u2014and we don\u2019t have any hope that this Government will solve it, but a future Government involving ACT will\u2014are the underlying issues that are causing so much cost pressure on energy: long-term increases in the cost of energy\u2014not just liquid fuels like petrol and diesel\u2014like natural gas that powers industry, that heats our homes, that delivers electricity to business and communities; energy that makes sure that communities can thrive and that we can have a healthy economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe underlying issues identified by the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, which said in their report that a long-term problem with transportation infrastructure\u2014a lack of investment and transportation infrastructure\u2014has meant that house price inflation is 70 percent higher than it should have been between 1978 and 2018. And this Government has cancelled roading project after roading project\u2014it\u2019s Mill Road, it\u2019s the East West Link: a project specifically designed to get heavy vehicles off local roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThese are the underlying problems that are causing a cost of living crisis, a housing crisis, and an energy crisis\u2014and this short-term measure will not help. The ACT Party will support this bill because it involves reducing taxes and giving money back to hard-working Kiwi families and businesses. However, this is not a long-term solution; it\u2019s barely a short-term solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00221807fccb96154df8868f33cec42e4d03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221807fccb96154df8868f33cec42e4d03\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my honour to speak on the third reading, this evening, of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. We\u2019ve heard the discussion this evening about the need to support families with the cost of living\u2014that\u2019s what this particular piece of legislation going through the House this evening is all about. The community that speaks to me, that tells me that they are struggling: this will make a difference for them. Alongside the halving of public transport costs, the work that this Government is doing, we\u2019re taking action now. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b683d01b9e10413eb1c61f06328c32e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b683d01b9e10413eb1c61f06328c32e6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The National Party supports this bill, as we\u2019ve seen in the House tonight. We have some questions around the long-term effect of it and what the implications will be on the Government, and we note that they will probably have to continue this process through a future of longer than three months, but I look forward to it progressing through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8d50f567ff6430382d9c7aa64a45a77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8d50f567ff6430382d9c7aa64a45a77\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Just a quick call, to end this third reading of the bill, to say that, again, we support New Zealanders, and part of that is this bill, supporting New Zealanders at that pump, to be able to live well, put a bit more p\u016Btea in their pocket. Hopefully, we can get this bill through quickly so we can start to do that as soon as we can. Ng\u0101 mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002274895bc438334be9acf386bf5881c19c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274895bc438334be9acf386bf5881c19c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House is suspended until 5 a.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2512a957e9a4a8098cb2a64b0522689\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: 5 a.m.?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ddcc9a0d57c4d5c86200bac98a47b2d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: What did I say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022203bddbe8967448aae6cf5669d2356ac\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: 5 a.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f87e60b8b34262a6c1ab7042392fc2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, 9 a.m.\u2014that\u2019s much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.55 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202204054279f1e30a074e6794ce2ac8c71ea780000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4a2116631bb42d29e169b72e5cee447\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 APRIL 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4d2cd362c974de5a20e08d950591877\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 6 April 2022)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221b20c2c13a94b05a5ff149dff69df60\u0022\u003ERoad User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002256ea2a57b35542dc900af49e5ee75b67\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225af83c3474574db99b16ab69c2697ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225af83c3474574db99b16ab69c2697ca2\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E The House is resumed. When the House rose last evening, we were considering the third reading of the Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. The next speaker is one from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0e36666d7ac4c6ea8175e853860d782\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0e36666d7ac4c6ea8175e853860d782\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, for those keen and enthusiastic viewers and listeners to the radio and who are watching this on television, let\u2019s do a little bit of a refresher about what happened last night. So the Government put the Parliament into urgency to pass under all stages this Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill. The purpose of this bill is actually to cover up a panicked poll result decision made by the Government after the public poll that came out on 10 March. They\u2019re using as the excuse\u2014and this is all about trying to backtrack and sort out how to give effect to the lowering of prices for people who use diesel in their vehicles. And the way that excise and revenue is collected on diesel vehicles is by way of a road-user charge, and the problem for the Government was that when they made the announcement back on 14 March, they hadn\u2019t done the homework. They hadn\u2019t done the prep work, and decided that, yes, it\u2019s very easy to take 25c a litre off the price of petrol at the pump because that\u2019s nice and easy, but it\u2019s far more difficult to organise a structured way to discount the road-user charges for people who buy kilometres for their road-user charge fee or levy or tax\u2014whatever you like to call it\u2014in advance. And then there\u2019s the added problem of, how do you stop people gaming the system, if, indeed, you want to stop people gaming the system? So these were issues that the Government needed to take into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThey were using as an excuse for this not the TV1 poll that showed National ahead of Labour, which I think was their reason and rationale for making the announcement, but they\u2019re using the Ukraine-Russia conflict that\u2019s going on. Now, hostilities started on 24 February, but there had been weeks, if not months, of advance speculation by commentators all around the world, including here in New Zealand, who said that this conflict, if it took place, would likely have a very negative effect on oil prices, and that prices of oil and diesel would almost certainly go up. So a Government would have had to have been blind to international commentary on these matters for not understanding that a crisis was going to come if Putin actually came good on his threats. Ultimately, he did, and hostilities commenced on 24 February. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThen, after the poll, the TVNZ poll on 10 March, the Government very hastily made a decision and an announcement on 14 March that they were going to drop the price of petrol at the pump to help the squeezed middle in New Zealand, who are so impacted by the cost of living crisis and the rapidly rising price of petrol, but also they were going to reduce the price of diesel by the same amount. And the problem was that it was much easier with petrol than with diesel, and that\u2019s why this legislation is placed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut to tell people who are watching this debate this morning what really happened and to give an insight into how disorganised the Government was and how keen they were to make the announcement\u2014because, remember, this is a Government that\u2019s very good at announcing announcements; absolutely hopeless, however, on delivery; hopeless on follow-through; very good on being empathetic but hopeless on delivery and actually doing anything. So an announcement was made on 14 March. It was not until 23 March that the New Zealand Transport Agency ended up actually conducting a workshop on how to implement the reduction in diesel road-user charges. So that gives an insight into the difficulties and the challenges that the Government had, and how again\u2014just once again\u2014they\u2019ve been caught out. So keen to make an announcement but so hopeless on delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo, notwithstanding all that history, we do support this legislation. We support it because this is a small, albeit temporary, respite for some road users, particularly those who are using diesel to fuel their vehicles and also the wider issue of temporary relief for petrol users as well. But, sooner or later, the temporary nature of this legislation and the temporary nature of the change to petrol prices will have to come to an end. And that\u2019s going to be an even bigger challenge for a Government that has lost sight of the squeezed middle, has lost sight of what the impacts of the cost of living crisis are on New Zealanders, and simply doesn\u2019t have solutions when we are in a situation with the highest inflation in 30 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00229a7d42cab3764ab28e26740f226ad23f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a7d42cab3764ab28e26740f226ad23f\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to speak last on this bill. This is a very sensible response to an oil shock. It\u2019s part of a suite of changes which include half-price fares and an immediate reduction in petrol amounts, and this was the trickiest part and it\u2019s been done swiftly and efficiently. It\u2019s a little bit of a pity that it\u2019s been held up by an Opposition that delayed the passage of this bill last night and continues to be oppositional despite, from what I understand, supporting the legislation. I think that tells its own story to the New Zealand public. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296970ae251bd49f2a52a186bdfbde585\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E That the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000013\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question,Road User Charges (Temporary RUC Reduction Scheme) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000014\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f242b33e30f9415b9db32e12a7aba53f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f242b33e30f9415b9db32e12a7aba53f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Urgency is concluded and the House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220405381d4d464d464affb16217bfe5026697000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.07 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"