"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cd77de8c44e42e386f8d54528538960\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 5 MAY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e2bd5ad7f2b4ccc8397702b482c6a92\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 5 MAY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000002\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c06aa80a6ded4adaa3958f454a9411ed\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227139e555e27b4e0596cdbf9882d5b373\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002230558b71f9d549e3868fce872fec7f9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230558b71f9d549e3868fce872fec7f9d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te Ku\u012Bni, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244a2be2f7c7740f78239fb1d3528ab8c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d593870ef08e4ed280487b6ec68ad491\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd59d1de3e7d4b45a54b9e73c5645d4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd59d1de3e7d4b45a54b9e73c5645d4d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Legislation to be considered next week will include the first reading of the Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa T\u0101maki nui-\u0101-Rua Claims Settlement Bill; the second readings of the Plant Variety Rights Bill and the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill; and the remaining stages of the Crown Pastoral Land Reform Bill, the Retail Payment System Bill, and the Maritime Powers Bill. On the morning of Thursday, 12 May, there will be an extended sitting for special debates on the exposure draft of the Natural and Built Environments Bill and New Zealand\u2019s first emissions budget under the Climate Change Response Act 2002, and further Government bills to be discussed through the Business Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00229a3b03df1fbf47b1bb3e443a25a1df5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a3b03df1fbf47b1bb3e443a25a1df5b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for the update. I was wondering, in light of the fact that the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act is coming to the time at which it needs to be either extended or amended, if the Leader of the House could give the House an indication as to what the Government\u2019s intention is with relation to the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b637dce674b04cae841c7517dab65779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b637dce674b04cae841c7517dab65779\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve indicated to the member last time he asked this in the House, I do think a further extension of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act is going to be required, because, at the moment, many of the aspects of the COVID response are still based on that legislation. The legislation does have a sunset provision within it, so it will ultimately expire, but, at the moment, it is still being used. So it is the Government\u2019s current intention to bring a further motion to the House to extend the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a947fe68238042f5aec99a08e5101ad9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a947fe68238042f5aec99a08e5101ad9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I just wonder what progress the member would be able to talk about with regard to the Organic Products Bill, since we talk about that each week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1eefa78cd654b8fa7e9f94ba611acad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1eefa78cd654b8fa7e9f94ba611acad\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Heaps!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022411bf36e48a841938349c85601a07543\u0022\u003EPetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239a672cf705f436f82a9f5273bb2a78c\u0022\u003EPetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022819c9035a13942de9004b5a4216ad1a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022819c9035a13942de9004b5a4216ad1a1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No papers or select committee reports have been presented and no bills have been introduced. A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00225eebc4593d5b4e54b52b30ac4f9b9e18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225eebc4593d5b4e54b52b30ac4f9b9e18\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Anna Hodgkinson requesting that the House inquire into whether those harmed by the COVID-19 vaccines are being recognised and cared for appropriately by ACC and healthcare providers, and allow qualified health practitioners to grant medical exemptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002242ae823a5c4748d69c5ad0bab79d995a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242ae823a5c4748d69c5ad0bab79d995a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7fe7460fed94d57ab32aa4abcb979b5\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235f6e9b22ddc4e51a41ef99d010ebc18\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f903295e648f472082f7d1184dc45839\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022b36236c2320e45f1819d5a606ae20d12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b36236c2320e45f1819d5a606ae20d12\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How many K\u0101inga Ora homes in new developments would not meet the requirements of the Healthy Homes Standards heating formula, as mentioned in a Cabinet paper released on 3 December 2021, and how much extra funding, if any, would it cost to bring these developments up to the standards required by the heating formula?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c27163f58bf24b5dacfaf1a99bb75cc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c27163f58bf24b5dacfaf1a99bb75cc9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E All K\u0101inga Ora new builds will meet the healthy homes standards (HHS). Following the healthy homes standards regulations coming into force on 1 July 2019, issues with the sizing of heaters in apartment-style buildings in builds since 2008 were raised. K\u0101inga Ora, developers, and property investors raised the issue with officials\u2014in particular, with how it affected new-build apartments. As a consequence of this, we have updated the regulations to make changes to the heating requirements to reflect the higher thermal performance of new homes built to the 2008 building code requirements for insulation and glazing and certain apartments. We consulted with a range of heating and ventilation industry experts, property owners, community housing providers, developers, tenancy advocates, and K\u0101inga Ora to test the proposed changes. Officials began working on these changes from March 2021. Policy decisions were made on 15 November 2021, and that is the Cabinet paper the member is referring to. The regulations were approved by Cabinet on 7 April of this year. The changes were made public on 14 April of this year, and the law comes into force on 12 May 2022. To assist landlords affected by the recent amendments to the HHS in respect to the heating requirement\u2014i.e., those landlords with new homes built to the 2008 building code requirements for insulation and glazing and those who own certain apartments\u2014they will have until 12 February 2023 to comply with the updated heating standard. In answer to the second part of the question: therefore, no additional funding was required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229127546733b540f5a9efbdd9ecee097e\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister guarantee that the Government did not change the healthy homes standards heating formula because it was found that K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s new developments would not meet the standard and that \u201CThe developments would have to be completely redesigned to allow for extra pipework to accommodate a heat pump rather than the wall-panel heaters the engineer recommended.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eb84319f55d43d4beb0b1d83ef70b81\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm to the member is that we heard these concerns from a range of developers, a range of builders, a range of landlords, including K\u0101inga Ora but also community housing providers. I know, as a local constituent MP, I heard it from businesses within my electorate, some of whom are electrical engineers and were involved in the calculations around the capacity needed. So we heard those concerns from a range of areas. We asked K\u0101inga Ora as our Government development agency to give us some case studies for us to work into our policy making, but this is an example of the Government listening to concerns raised with it and making changes accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668e69e227f14e19828343f607aa0283\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: How is it fair or acceptable that the private sector was forced to comply with poorly developed heating standards at great cost, when the Government can simply move the goalposts for K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s own developments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f65172eaef8b45a189418e8e97cf8326\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I simply don\u2019t accept the argument the member is making there. We made these changes in response to concerns that we heard from private developers; we made these changes in response to concerns that we heard from landlords. This is an example of our Government listening. Yes, it does include K\u0101inga Ora, but this is about helping all landlords and developers, not just ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32901fd9e074c16826fcd35cd59a9d1\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that the unnecessary cost that the incorrect heating formula imposed upon landlords will be passed on to tenants who are already struggling to make ends meet in this cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e151621d0a4173a47051cb65e1cac7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the number of landlords that this would affect, it\u2019s likely to be a very small number. It is homes that were built since 2008 and a subset of apartments; it\u2019s not all buildings. Not all of those rentals would have complied with the standards, because it was not at the threshold of having to. We recognise that, now there are new standards, additional time has been given, and it\u2019s why, in my primary answer, I talked about the time line now stretching out to 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a311e903184b4da3afcc88f02469be78\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to landlords who put in place huge heat pumps at large cost to themselves and their tenants, who will feel as though the Government has shifted the goalposts for their own developments and not for landlords who are trying to make a home affordable for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcab6ad793c14abebb6d64abd12eecee\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure if the member realises that these changes also apply to private landlords; these changes are not just changes for K\u0101inga Ora. These are changes to the healthy homes standards that apply across the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022307638a9920e43d88af3e30a614ff0b4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002209247fa727fe4ed9915b98b4c57bb812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209247fa727fe4ed9915b98b4c57bb812\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What action is the Government taking to decarbonise Auckland\u2019s harbour ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00224970ac646e1e465eb2ef6b2b2cec818a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224970ac646e1e465eb2ef6b2b2cec818a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E The Government recently announced a $27 million investment for two new fully electric ferries for commuters and sightseers to travel on. Auckland Transport will trial across various major inner- and mid-harbour services once they launch in 2024. The ferries will have a 200-person capacity, space for bikes, a top speed of 25 knots, and a range of 40 kilometres. Two electric fast ferries, and associated wharf infrastructure, will be built in Aotearoa New Zealand by EV Maritime and McMullen and Wing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b82f80a9744cbb8a58aee75f34d762\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the impact of this project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2ffa79c220404caf0f0080b6394124\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The current ferries operating in Auckland contribute about 20 percent of Auckland\u2019s public transport emissions. These electric ferries are the beginning of dramatically reducing greenhouse gas emissions, with each ferry displacing approximately a thousand tonnes of carbon emissions annually. This project will also be a major boost to the rapidly developing maritime clean technology sector and further upskill those working in the sector\u2014for example, propulsion control technologies from Wigram-based company HamiltonJet will allow the boats to operate at higher speeds while using less energy. This project is a boost for our climate goals and our economy, which is especially vital as we continue our economic recovery from COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886d88a6d3cf47d89b9b9d6e9808ca1b\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government funding enabling this project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022018b8b5aea4d480cb90a2df766304001\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-seven million dollars of grant funding was committed by central government. This funding will directly cover approximately 75 percent of the costs of constructing the two electric ferries. The remainder is covered by Auckland Transport, but without the Government\u2019s cornerstone investment here, these ferries would not have been in service as quickly as intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85dc5ed4f5042de84611bdd75810a10\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that incorporating the Fullers\u2019 Waiheke route into the public transport operating model could help to accelerate decarbonisation efforts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2501083a3ff4564ab2e3fdc00f303aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a question for the Minister of Energy and Resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892fcfa084804cd4bfb92385893b8417\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This is, of course, related to the fact that Auckland Transport in the Regional Land Transport Plan, the public transport operating model, currently excludes only two routes in the whole of the country that are aligned with regional land transport. It is very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262d5ca13d1904160952086bb9c38303c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So what\u2019s your point\u2014what\u2019s your point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022143347fd39d44efe9c70363f186d30ec\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is that the Minister was involved in negotiating the way that this would be rolled out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917aa24a1e6e40b58b89e2188eaab928\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the answer is that the Minister isn\u2019t responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317f05c0c09c4e0b9e77473ed2a746e2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Wellington Electric Boat Building Company, which has just built the Southern Hemisphere\u2019s first electric ferry operating in Wellington, allowed to bid for the contract that the Minister has just announced last week has been awarded in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5195e680c884b7a9cb8ad88aa3d4e1b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers were not involved in questions of procurement or bidding, as should be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a78698a63934a349910814169a5f857\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. That doesn\u2019t actually address the question. It just says the Minister\u2019s not responsible for procurement. That\u2019s true, but she is responsible to the House for the procurement decisions of her officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021e3752241f413bbfc04d35a511bdf3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll get you to ask the question again, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a79d2349f34f40abcc79420204ebc3\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Wellington Electric Boat Building Company, which is operating the Southern Hemisphere\u2019s first ever electric ferry right now across Wellington Harbour to Eastbourne, allowed to bid for the contract that the Minister has announced to the tune of $27 million for Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227189453bea6b4b56b5ca7c51d9331317\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as it relates to the primary question, the Minister may answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228106efe6d1c2415c91f6a3cfc86be568\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As Ministers are not involved in procurement or bidding, I invite the member to put that question in writing and I\u2019ll happily ask officials to finish the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3d53dd77df2464381f8edd611b04070\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Housing (Public Housing)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e367dcc0f828494990a007d1a4066f3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e367dcc0f828494990a007d1a4066f3e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): How many people are on the State housing waitlist now compared to September 2017, and has she received advice on when that number will return to the levels of September 2017? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba28c9dc0bb6418688b4e7a6f4fd01cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba28c9dc0bb6418688b4e7a6f4fd01cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): I am proud of this Government\u2019s public housing build programme, the largest of any Government since the 1970s. Since 2017, more than 9,000 new places have been delivered across New Zealand, and 7,300 of these are new builds. The national housing crisis we inherited meant that there simply aren\u2019t enough houses. While we are starting to see progress, we are dealing with the failure of the previous Government to build houses. Not only did the previous Government not build enough houses for the 5,844 people on the waiting-list; they ended up with 1,500 fewer public homes across both Housing New Zealand and the CHPs than they started with. The 2017 wait-list did not reflect the real need, and while it will take some time to repair the carnage wreaked by the previous National Government, we are committed to rolling out our record public housing build programme. If the previous Government had built at the same rate as we are building, there would be over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225465f33303ac4ddf869e0c02d8036c31\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we\u2019re now up to 45 seconds to a minute of the answer; we are yet to hear anything related to the actual question. It\u2019s a very straight, non-political question, and the House is entitled to expect a concise answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b289f7914b9408dac228ed18bdd3783\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s unusual for members to interrupt during the answer to a question, saying that it\u2019s not being answered, when one should probably give the opportunity to hear the answer. But seeing as it\u2019s been raised, I disagree with the member. There are aspects within what the Minister has said which do actually address the first part. It doesn\u2019t completely address it so far, but I look forward to hearing the rest of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224737a3699be45dfa7fcde0d88371fdf\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. So just where we left off: it will take some time to repair the carnage wreaked by the previous National Government, but we are committed to rolling out our record public housing build programme. If the previous Government had built at the same rate as we are building, there would be over 22,000 more public houses in New Zealand today, accounting for over 80 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323103a57b8941ba841453ba0fc9ee62\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I should have added\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f458f088ddbe4cbfb209f416e8f7961b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0afb29d655543ab96da2ea1b988ceee\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt, but I should have added that she should do that a bit quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b45782581654111a451800196ae7119\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014OK, I\u2019m just finishing\u2014accounting for over 80 percent of the 26,868 on the current waiting list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212720ea5db6748cb8a21acca7366ca4c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m sure that when you review the tapes later this evening\u2014as I know that you do\u2014looking at the answers given by the Minister, you\u2019ll find that there were a number of assertions in that which are very wide of the Standing Orders. Now, if, in fact, your ruling today is that it stands and it\u2019s OK and it\u2019s fine, will that also stand in the mirror Standing Order, which is to do with asking questions, where the Opposition could make all range of those similar sorts of assertions, without any documented proof or otherwise, in a question to a Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b97337fce8478180daf2612a9c5efd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I do want to acknowledge what the Hon Gerry Brownlee is saying, and I should really have pulled up the Minister. I was listening very carefully for the answer and it took a while, so my advice to the Minister is to get there a lot more quicker, and to the member asking the question to wait for the answer. But I will have a look at it and I will come back and let you know what I think about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17951882761424b9a1e7f1f0003b7dd\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did K\u0101inga Ora build only one net additional State house in the first quarter of 2022? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3aa406a784b42dc8d99ef0bd2138bfd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: If we have a look at the builds that K\u0101inga Ora has done across the 2021-22 financial year, there are 546. But because we are a Government that is committed to an ongoing building and redevelopment programme, we report these figures as net, so we also subtract off there the houses that we demolish to make way for even more public houses that we will be building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6c77e5d144d4f15ba382c026b0b3d4c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she say she was proud of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s progress on building, when, in the first quarter of this year, K\u0101inga Ora built just one net additional State house in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dc4519954074c11a7b832a18c64b132\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m proud of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s record on State house building. We have added over 7,000 new-build houses since we have been in Government. We are only beginning to repair some of the carnage wrecked by the previous National Government in the area of housing. But what the member will not understand, because his party fails to understand, is that in order to redevelop and build houses, you have to tear down the ones to redevelop the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ddf4cf7bcf418f892ebd8a4532c1dc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before I give the question to Chris Bishop, the number and level of interjections are so much that I barely heard the answer. Interjections about mental health and other things not even related to the question are really out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bb6b6f467845b9a9553b7924eefc02\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they\u2019re all areas of failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa0bcc6d170417db7f9334065df4fcc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Doocey, you are lucky I was not on my feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417043574bc34fbd9993b38c26bb03bb\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Did she agree with official advice at the time about the impact of removing interest deductibility on increasing the housing register, and would she accept that that advice has been proved right and she has been proved wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d7c6c647944aaab16e3eb0c50c18c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a topic that has been traversed many, many, many times in this House. The advice the member is referring to was advice that was given in December of 2020 for Ministers to consider over summer. We considered that advice over summer and, of course, we came back, and what we did is that we said interest deductibility should pertain to new builds. This is why we are seeing a continuation of the building consents that we are seeing. So as a Government, we took means to mitigate that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221417f58d4b7f425cbbf3303a5eb97609\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any examples where K\u0101inga Ora, previously Housing New Zealand, demolished a whole lot of State houses and then didn\u2019t build on the land where the houses had been demolished, and instead passed that on to private property developers, and under which Government did that happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e06dfda3698438ea1ca5a44c409880a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m afraid that if I went through the list of examples under the previous Government where that happened, the Speaker would sit me down. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac31ee2d49bb4c9da9f07cf268fd6a0d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ff9a5512cd404c97fa33ed68ab6991\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Can I continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5ba1e2f0e6451da270d110dff7bd75\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. We\u2019ll go on to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212b5ecf550bb404092d7c33c0e00ff91\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa77b44094747e4a61dc9fd0b783219\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can both sit down. Look, if the member is asking a question and the noise is to the level that I can\u2019t even hear the Minister\u2019s response, then it\u2019s an absolute waste of time even having the question answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022792909836be44e66abe55bc0cf547393\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acfe324810044f1e8155139c8b5ce4da\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You want another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea867aa2a294399bdb73aab1adcd41a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yes please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7a5bcae7964fa7abb69dad4200893d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d advise members behind you to be quiet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4c73f85e5e4d3c968843cfeb472b8a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, thank you. I\u2019ll just say we\u2019re very excited to see you in the Chair, Mr Speaker, and so I just encourage\u2014supplementary. So, in light of that answer to my previous supplementary, is it her position that the removal of interest deductibility does not have an impact on the State house register?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e64e3114a114edf8a29298b92a5e5f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: We have gone over this many, many times in this House\u2014that what we are seeing is a continuation of an increase of supply because as a Cabinet we listened to the advice that said that we needed to put in place mitigation around ensuring that we had continuation of supply come on board. My opinion of what contributes far more to the growth of the State house wait-list is that the previous Government ended up with 1,500 fewer public houses than they started with. That includes those held by CHPs and then Housing New Zealand. Not only did they flog them off but they did not build them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde5cd2e59d443e2b8a4f652768afe75\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd435c14a0e34a92966c938ac7bd2538\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that this Government has now been in office for four and a half years, and it\u2019s about time they stopped blaming the last National Government for the utter ineptitude they have shown on housing that means 4,000 kids are growing up in motels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfd5fda722042b5a10af2e0b1777928\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: What it\u2019s about time is for us to remind New Zealanders that we are a Government that has added over 9,000 public housing places in the time that we have been in Government. I will have put this against the 1,500 fewer than they started with of the previous National Government. Kids have ended up in motels because that party failed New Zealand in housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3ba7c91f3ff458ab85df9f739923cf5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister blame the last Government for the doubling of the number of houses being built in Auckland under this Government, or is she willing to take credit for this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221282950fac8d4e2a895432822522c35d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b99d75c245034e9cac7f4c3288401874\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00225a2657f651334619bcf6acebd0083cc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a2657f651334619bcf6acebd0083cc9\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent announcements has she made about Care in the Community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4d13fc4e8554ad2850e4036b232c118\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4d13fc4e8554ad2850e4036b232c118\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Care in the Community model has served us well as we\u2019ve responded to Omicron. Today, I announced a further $58.1 million in funding. This funding will support social service providers and community food organisations in the amazing work they\u2019ve been doing to help people with essential needs. We\u2019ve worked hard to slow the spread of Omicron, and our Government\u2019s response is showing to have paid dividends with a drop in demand for support. Now with higher rates of vaccination coverage, we\u2019re now able to pivot our response and support a broader range of circumstances for people who\u2019ve been significantly impacted by COVID-19 restrictions and requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022465fca053db64922ba37d265ab875a95\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What will today\u2019s announcement provide?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc1ab99d46549159dc2bec0a2958e8f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Today\u2019s announcement will provide certainty for many organisations who are supporting our communities as we move through the pandemic. Specifically, we will fund support for ongoing and transitional Care in the Community support, including a pivot in work for Community Connectors, confidence and certainty for community food organisations in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s Food Secure Communities programme, and funding to support the wellbeing of disabled people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e02d34f1cf94d6186be326a6bda0689\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What role will Community Connectors play in the transition plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f487a32b0c94cbeb27caf1250254f79\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As caseloads of self-isolating households reduce, Community Connectors will transition towards providing broader support to families impacted by COVID-19. With 500 Community Connectors hosted by 260 providers around the country, the Community Connection Service has been a vital link to support the needs of people self-isolating. The funding announced today will allow this mahi to continue while also enabling connectors to help people with broader COVID-related issues. This could include those with high and complex needs who may need support with employment or educational support. We\u2019ll continue to keep an eye on the ongoing impacts of COVID-19 in our communities and be ready to pivot the Community Connection Service if required for a further Omicron wave or a new variant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa8fe5a42a1b44c0b3546a4c39b721a8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9216d496d064574af8ab7acf6435939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9216d496d064574af8ab7acf6435939\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002285c281c6ea2c4c3b8089a67ea3d5e1fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285c281c6ea2c4c3b8089a67ea3d5e1fa\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888492d5bcef4b3097e7847cb9ba2709\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement is correct: \u201CYes, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has resumed the use of [work] obligations since June 2020.\u201D or \u201CWe don\u2019t just apply sanctions easily.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4411a7b20d746268b5bc9ebbab59ebb\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Both of those comments are correct. They are not mutually exclusive, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b2ff7889bf439eba43cfdab02a0f27\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Can she explain why sanctions for failing to attend a work appointment in March 2022 were 67 percent lower compared to March 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275a4d0e1edfa4a99bc5b4d2d269b240e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Because now we have a Ministry of Social Development that has conversations with their clients. They build relationships with their clients. They ascertain what their situations are. It\u2019s led to great results. We\u2019ve seen the largest exits off benefit into employment since electronic records have been kept, and we certainly haven\u2019t reached the peaks of benefit numbers that were originally forecast by Treasury. We stand by our record during the COVID pandemic and we continue to see good results with regards to exits off benefit into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230598bb9833341f58ba47b371017fbb1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her statement on the Breakfast show on 1 April that there are \u201Cstill wh\u0101nau living in hardship\u201D; if so, does she think the Social Security Act\u2019s purpose should aim to end hardship, not just alleviate it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c66d949fa56d4af4a94b4c77187ca2b1\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I stand by the statement that I made on 1 April, and I will also add that some of the issues that we face, including hardships that wh\u0101nau are faced with, were issues that we faced pre-pandemic and really have been exacerbated because of the pandemic. I certainly do think that we need to address parts of our welfare system to do things like improve income adequacy, but there are other ways in which we can address hardship and show a Government\u2019s commitment towards reducing poverty. I think the best indication I can see of that was actually this Government making the decision to introduce child poverty reduction legislation in this House. That holds us accountable as a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd12d95853c464fbde8fb1042e6be1f\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement yesterday, about reducing the number of long-term job seekers, when significant staff shortages exist, that \u201CThis takes time.\u201D; if so, when will numbers on jobseeker benefit longer than a year return to the 2017 levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224503011db848411f9dca34f742e68b4f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I watched the House yesterday to see what was asked here\u2014some very good answers given on my behalf. But I will point out that the member who was asking the question was saying that there were 110,000 people on jobseeker who have been on long term. I need to remind that member that about 70,000 to 80,000 of those who are on jobseeker benefit actually have a health condition or disability of some sort. Absolutely there are jobs available at the moment\u2014absolutely. MSD is working hard to get people into those jobs but we do need to recognise that there are a range of New Zealanders that have health conditions or disabilities that make it really hard for them to take up employment. I encourage the member to watch Sunday this coming week, when they interview three people with neurodiverse conditions and they get to talk about why it is so hard for them to be able to gain employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ad2c9acfe440a19d94c2b4b76123c1\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister stand by her statement yesterday that \u201CThe last thing [we want] is people on benefits for ever and a day.\u201D, when those on the jobseeker benefit long term has increased by 60\u2014six zero\u2014percent under her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278577bdfb58c40b584137cf6e70dd0a0\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: There have been increases in the number of people on benefit in general because of the fact that we have faced a pandemic and a range of things have happened during this time. That means in every category, there are groups of people who have actually gone up. One of the biggest challenges that I think we face\u2014that has been overlooked in the past by previous Governments and not responded to well enough\u2014is actually the issue of supporting people with health conditions and disabilities into employment. Need I remind that member that around 70,000 to 80,000 of those on benefits have a health condition or disability? It\u2019s not necessarily that they don\u2019t want to work; there are a range of barriers in place to them being able to take up employment. A responsible Government invests there and creates a strategy to actually support them to get into employment, and that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d17454ffdc68495e96f34c9057c3493c\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Government claim that Mana in Mahi is reducing benefit dependency, when just 14 percent of participants were on a benefit for longer than a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afc1a45eb822478694145cc9ff888e62\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve gone through the statistics. In fact, with regards to Mana in Mahi, we have outdone what our targets were in terms of the numbers that have been involved in the programme. I think, last time I checked, about 88 percent\u2014I believe; between 86 and 88 percent\u2014actually had either completed or were still on the programme, and a few had left but not gone back on benefit. Given the particular group of people that we are targeting, that\u2019s an amazing outcome and it shows that it\u2019s an effective programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224661dfd716314967b60f070a334ebc3b\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. That was an interesting answer, but it didn\u2019t focus on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c77fd12fff4397aacc48e9e43e89e4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a point of order; that\u2019s a comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de4b643a467d42208338b5948e2179f7\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019m sure my colleague was going to point out to you that the Minister had not addressed the question, and you cut her off extremely quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf5e27509b04277b5c5ce7ae223b025\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: She did not; she made a comment. She was giving a commentary on the answer. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a08915937641c7b61d13b9fedc3cf1\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019ll raise the point. The question was not addressed. It was about the number of people going into Mana in Mahi, not the number of people coming off it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce94a6caf994c0b94939656aff95900\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And if that had have been asked at that time, I would have considered it at that time. I will consider it now and tell you that it was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec40f780a1954b97b8745f29bf00a4fd\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the assertion that a programme designed to stop people becoming long-term beneficiaries and keep them off benefits and in work is a failure if it succeeds in doing just that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248eb810d5104bcb844b5edc9a2408aa\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not even quite sure what that Minister was asking. However, I think I agree. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c8cfc358e9427a9989227fec9f9c3a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baa464f67c0648dbad0e762c388150f7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb9367f98a0a4d1cab384bcfaf26d467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb9367f98a0a4d1cab384bcfaf26d467\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: What reports has he seen on education and employment outcomes for rangatahi M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90e4853915e4e7c86d76b29cb9cb76c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90e4853915e4e7c86d76b29cb9cb76c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. I\u2019ve received an update on Pae Aronui, delivered through Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. Pae Aronui trials innovative methods to grow the confidence, capability, and connectedness of rangatahi\u2014of young people. They\u2019re some of our most disconnected young people, who come from some incredibly tough backgrounds. In fact, I\u2019ve had some of the Opposition members join me to see the success we\u2019ve had on some of these courses. I\u2019m pleased to share with the House that of the 275 young people in year two, 94 percent have successfully completed the programme. So far in year three, of the 200 young people engaged, 89 have already gained employment, and 47 have re-engaged with education. I\u2019m incredibly proud of our young people and providers in our Pae Aronui programmes\u2014a number of them P\u0101keh\u0101 providers too, and I give a lot of credit to them in terms of putting their hands up and working with this really tough group of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0485696952409fabd01da4dc62df76\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How is Pae Aronui different to other targeted youth programmes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ecd2b60d16e4d0382005952eda267e9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Pae Aronui providers often provide services for wh\u0101nau as part of the response and have always focused on ongoing pastoral support for the rangatahi concerned. Providers incorporate tikanga M\u0101ori; te reo M\u0101ori, our M\u0101ori language; cultural identity; and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori within their Pae Aronui programmes. This reflects community needs and supports a by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori, tikanga design approach to the programme as a whole. I have seen gang members shift incredibly, believe it or not, after going through the programme\u2014sometimes not long programmes\u2014but so proud that they have got something to show and something to look forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284640a152a3c46248f1dfc0b8e904c06\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many, Willie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ddc90ef128b46a08252fa285d17ff15\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to after six to eight weeks. Ask the question and you\u2019ll get the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224805d42a51cc49918994754d3ef24976\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How do programmes like Pae Aronui support rangatahi M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f30277309547959b423fe29f2819ed\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Iwi-based programmes and those taking a wh\u0101nau-centred and kaupapa M\u0101ori approach is how they deliver the programme. They\u2019re helping young people connect to their culture, which is helping to build resilience and confidence. M\u0101ori providers innately take a holistic approach, which is helping reach beyond young people to their peers and wh\u0101nau members as well, who are seeing and wanting to emulate their success. P\u0101keh\u0101 providers are working in tandem with a lot of M\u0101ori in the communities. I salute those P\u0101keh\u0101 providers\u2014because that\u2019s what it\u2019s all about, partnership and working together so that we can uplift some of our young people in some of our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb7bc248c18499fa3d0b9ad7da6477e\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise what the Opposition might learn from Pae Aronui?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322c5d9e79f1445684f110beed14b332\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c189d92fb84431b14cbad3d1861e0e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sit down. That\u2019s out of order. The Minister\u2019s not responsible for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aec28f0dbd1144fabee86b1ea88b8194\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002279e49457d32f49d1ab681c815f8aa69a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279e49457d32f49d1ab681c815f8aa69a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CI reject the premise that gang tensions have increased under this Government\u2019s watch\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00220a268d41e2fb42b5b54ba7a77fac2aaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a268d41e2fb42b5b54ba7a77fac2aaf\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Police: I stand by the full context of my full statement, which was since the arrival of the 501s in 2015, the nature of gangs has fundamentally changed, making them much more overt and sophisticated. When this Government took office two years later, we got to work giving the police the tools they need to deal with these threats. We have more police than any other Government in this country\u2019s history, we\u2019ve banned assault weapons and introduced firearm protection orders, we\u2019ve introduced legislation to hit organised criminals where it hurts\u2014their pockets\u2014so they don\u2019t benefit from dirty money, and we\u2019re running the resilience to organised crime programme to work with communities to address the harms and drivers of organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf1d2ccb5ad44caa273d18034a52647\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Is Operation Cobalt an admission from the Government that gang violence is out of control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068a5c4ad8b64aa196c90fa24e8ddad8\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: No; it\u2019s an admission from this Government that the extra resourcing that we put into policing allows us to make sure that we tackle gang issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222231878089e9468d8abfc0c10e965a54\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government waited so long to take enforcement action against gangs, and announced a task force similar to Strike Force Raptor, an idea the Government mocked three years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c162de66b6fb4c54810496a2bdbb7f9d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge the departure of the former member for Tauranga, Simon Bridges, who was the original author of Strike Force Raptor. The Government didn\u2019t, obviously, take up the offer from the Opposition to take up that. What we like to do is make sure we\u2019re resourcing the police properly. That has been seen through the success of Operation Tauwhiro and also, as the member points out, the police action that will take place under Operation Cobalt. This Government has resourced the police properly, which has ensured that we\u2019ve got 1,400 more police. Because of the parliamentary system, I\u2019m able to be here as Minister of Police answering this question, and also to be at the Royal New Zealand Police College in the great city of Porirua, to welcome the graduates of Wing 353\u201471 more recruits for our front line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69842ccb186404284de60925aeaf6cd\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: If this Government has resourced the police properly, why are we seeing such a massive increase in gang violence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212881344a66a4d6aae663c3a6db1904b\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the member should have listened to the answer to the first question around the issues that have come about since the gang 501s have arrived. I\u2019d also point out that while this Government has increased police resourcing in the 4\u00BD years that we\u2019ve been in power, between 2013 and 2014 I believe that police numbers on the front line dropped 300. Our Government is committed to making sure we back the front line, as opposed to the previous National Government that talked a big game and let numbers go down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a93081c23364d53a126b06e30ffe6eb\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any party in this House that voted against this Government\u2019s legislation that legislated for greater penalties for gun crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fefcce97ea3547c0971ba13cddec66b2\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229438637e32af45fbbda82e3543748b4c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister is not responsible for how the parties vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022891d21fa3081467b891d97d72d2e0608\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Have gang tensions increased or decreased under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347e1a4f0d8f4517973b32782459e963\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I think what is important is if communities do have concerns about gang tensions in their community, that the Government is making sure we are resourcing police to tackle it. We\u2019ve talked about Operation Tauwhiro. I\u2019d also like to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ed104d98cb49839c16c0a4ea68d00c\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a very clear, short, and concise question and the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022890f585a5a0d47d0b0866a55f8a4c18c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And he hadn\u2019t even answered it, so it\u2019d be really helpful to hear the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac13380e9928450c892422ad7ab51cf9\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2018a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Listen up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd25db573dbb4c9ab9e1e962540248e6\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274e93ad85cd141cb9f71c2a85b5cd87e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, it would be really helpful to hear the whole answer and then I can make a judgment on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd4a442d76842f3ba3e9d6cfdf4dc6f\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Before I was interrupted, I was just going to refer to Operation Weirton which took place earlier this year, which took 600 kilograms of meth off our streets; took $7 million dollars of assets, of which $1 million was in one single bank account; and undertook several arrests. Again, because we\u2019ve got resourcing, we\u2019re making sure we\u2019re tackling organised crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e08c890d2f4f1787ff336d86acd7b3\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I ask that question again, please? He hasn\u2019t answered it. It was a very short and concise question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430b9b9645ac4e6182e11b3364fc02b9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it\u2019s been addressed. If you have supplementaries to use, then absolutely you can ask it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f898281b17754313874a937b1252cb2f\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of police resourcing of gangs, does the Minister think the 71 new officers graduating at 2 p.m. today will be of assistance there, and is he aware of any other graduates in the past period of this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b6ff2dc989b446cb0f9dbf24e8372c6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as it relates to the primary question, the Minister can answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d855602fdbc44d4b7a4d1190234174c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are obviously 1,400 over the last 4\u00BD years, which we\u2019re extremely proud of, and, obviously, the Minister is representing the Government at the graduation today. We\u2019d like to congratulate the 71 new members of the constabulary who will be joining the front line soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224597f490d097418cb890921345f6d85b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224e824905b623404a9711ae6de5ca42b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e824905b623404a9711ae6de5ca42b2\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Does he remain committed to ensuring that the Government\u2019s response to COVID-19 is informed by the best available scientific evidence; if so, what is his response to an open letter by more than 150 doctors and scientists calling for additional protections, particularly in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002235f143212da24d71b67cdf50c1511feb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235f143212da24d71b67cdf50c1511feb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, this Government absolutely remains committed to a science- and evidence-based approach to dealing with COVID-19. As much as we\u2019d all like it to be the case, the pandemic is not over and we cannot afford to take our foot off the pedal as we head into winter. That\u2019s why the Government has implemented a protection and minimisation strategy, following the advice from Professor David Skegg and the Strategic COVID-19 Public Health Advisory Group. Our response has, and will continue to, focus on protecting those groups that are the most vulnerable and to stay agile and be ready to adjust to change as the outbreak continues to evolve as it will. This will mean a continued push for higher vaccination rates and the further promotion of public health measures that allow people to protect themselves and their loved ones. The hard work and sacrifices of New Zealanders have supported the Government\u2019s strategy and delivered one of the lowest rates of cases in deaths in the OECD, and now is not the time to change that approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dace9145854f42ea8c036c32fe4d17df\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with these experts that \u201CCOVID-19 spreads predominantly by airborne transmission, therefore, to minimise infections public health policies must aim to provide clean air within indoor environments.\u201D, and, if so, why isn\u2019t this Government requiring higher standards of ventilation and air purification, including in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92c66027ccc4774848c41f728608531\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes. In answer to the last part of the member\u2019s question, we\u2019ve looked very closely at ventilation within schools in terms of what is the most effective way of delivering good ventilation in schools. And artificial ventilation systems\u2014so, air cleaners\u2014don\u2019t replenish the air as frequently as opening the windows even a small amount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d83be98b94c443c9caaa8dd38d64b38\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received, if any, on the role of masks in reducing school transmission, and does this suggest that the Government should be providing N19, N95, or equivalent masks to schools and mandating mask-use over winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666ae23abc744129a6cfc8110840ce65\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It very much depends on the context of the school environment in question. Yes, masks still continue to play a useful role in schools. Schools determine their own approaches around mask-use depending on the particular risks that they are confronting and relevant to their particular circumstances. They have our full support where they decide that mask-use should still be required. And we are continuing, and we have, to provide to schools masks to make sure that cost is not a barrier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221253f3719d084e29a789ac54d788aa66\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What steps, if any, has he taken to increase COVID-19 vaccination among tamariki M\u0101ori, such as working alongside community providers or rolling out vaccinations at schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225560252292aa4703b1f1afa210290151\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Increasing our tamariki vaccination rates remains a priority. We continue to work alongside local providers to make sure that vaccinations continue to roll out. We do have to acknowledge that vaccination rates amongst the youngest age cohort who are eligible\u2014the five- to 11-year-olds\u2014continues to be low. One of the reasons that we are hearing that second dosage, or the rates of second dosing, are lagging behind first doses is that a number of those children have subsequently had COVID-19 and therefore have to wait three months before they can get their second doses. There will be some who haven\u2019t yet had a first dose for the same reason; although that seems to be less of a factor in the first doses. We all have a challenge to ensure that we get our first dose rates up amongst that age cohort. Ultimately, it\u2019s a parent\u2019s decision, and we should all be enforcing the positive messages around the value of vaccination to the parents so that they have confidence in taking up that option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200d277d72cf44bd09388c16a460f9a3b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3baab8487214d1a9bad0400e142bbc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3baab8487214d1a9bad0400e142bbc8\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: What recent announcements has the Government made about supporting regular attendance and engagement in education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002211f2e4c520754b9abaa5cd30e788d058\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211f2e4c520754b9abaa5cd30e788d058\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education (School Operations)):\u003C/span\u003E On Sunday, the Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Hipkins, and I made a pre-Budget announcement of $88 million of targeted funding for attendance and engagement programmes to ensure our tamariki are in education. Over the past two years, we have been investing in evidence-based attendance initiatives that are led by schools and communities who know their students best. This latest package is providing further funding for these initiatives, which, prior to 2017, had been under-invested in. Attendance rates need to improve across all ages, deciles, and regions. They have been declining since 2015 and COVID-19 has added more challenges. Budget 2022 provides system-level and targeted investment to make the education system a place where learners want to be and where they can get the targeted support they need, ensuring there are routes back into learning for those learners who are disengaged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd25da7ea536468fa44621d6a0995a9b\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What approach is the Government taking to support students to attend school regularly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89308591bf84380b300a577bcb3b9ef\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: When changes were made to the attendance service in 2013, the work of engaging students in education was taken away from schools and communities who know their students best. The Government is redesigning the attendance service to bring that provision closer to schools. That work is happening now and has been rolled out in some regions already. We are also taking a prevention approach to students who are starting to show signs of poor attendance\u2014for example, the Positive Behaviour for Learning suite is a proven programme, which has been in place since 2011, that fosters safe, inclusive environments, particularly for \u0101konga and wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori. Now, the refresh programme is based on the latest research. It empowers schools with practical solutions to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3362ed997b944be87aaaae826ab1bb2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think the Minister\u2019s definitely addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223438fac28f65428fbe498d775c82f7fb\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that 8,000 children were not enrolled in any school in March 2022, twice as many as at the start of 2019, and, if so, why has she waited so long to do anything about it while we face a truancy crisis that has exploded under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d28e0c686f4b6f83eab8a2d316381c\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d really like to thank the member for that question, because it is important that they understand why we take an evidence-based approach and plan this so carefully, because it can go terribly wrong if you don\u2019t. In 2013, when the previous National Government took a non - evidence-based approach and developed an attendance system that took it away from schools, we saw attendance falling dramatically. That is not the approach that this Government will take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222be3a66e97ad4e64a7bcadd27b5c7dca\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What does this funding mean for schools, students, and families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e8fa9792a19493aac1e31f96bcd2dba\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: This funding is targeted for our most vulnerable, but will be of benefit to all schools. For students with learning support needs, we will have increased resourcing with the Incredible Years programme to support caregivers, wh\u0101nau, and school and early childhood educators to improve communication skills and emotional regulation. Targeted funding has been carved out for our M\u0101ori \u0101konga and Pacific students at risk of disengaging and schools will be better supported to identify and support their students to attend school in engaging and learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2814078f4e743a1aca3dad6e8da1f9c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5d62a825ae74228b0905d549763a2fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5d62a825ae74228b0905d549763a2fe\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What, if any, is the net financial deficit of Te P\u016Bkenga forecast for 2022, and how much more or less is it than the actual Institutes of Technology and Polytechnics sector deficit in 2019 prior to the establishment of Te P\u016Bkenga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022498c51090e984d8c9e548d195eeffca1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022498c51090e984d8c9e548d195eeffca1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Before we commenced the reforms of vocational education that brought the 16 existing polytechs and institutes of technology together under the Te P\u016Bkenga umbrella, a range of potential deficits for the sector without reform were projected. The highest of these was $156 million in 2022. I am advised that Te P\u016Bkenga group is currently forecasting a deficit of $110 million for 2022, consistent with the mid-range of those earlier projections. Forecasts must, of course, however, be treated with caution. In 2021, last year, Te P\u016Bkenga forecast a deficit of $46 million but actually delivered a small surplus. In 2019, the sector produced a deficit of $49 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa33ddd2759b4e9cacc8986367cd1cdf\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that a deficit of $110 million\u2014approximately $60 million more than prior to his mega merger, when the deficit was $48 million\u2014means the sector is better or worse financially?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc14b12367841db849e5d4ca61df961\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s an acceptable level of deficit, and that\u2019s the reason that we are reforming the sector, because the range of projections going into the reform programme could have been significantly worse if we had not undertaken reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262af14229cb94b798d197b0d497b883a\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What concerns, if any, have the Tertiary Education Commission (TEC) expressed to the Minister regarding Te P\u016Bkenga not meeting the expectations he outlined to Te P\u016Bkenga in July 2020 to \u201Cimprove efficiency and effectiveness\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e9284b6d004d5cb43761c23f0f5635\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019d be fair to say the Tertiary Education Commission have been giving a range of quite frank advice on the Te P\u016Bkenga change process. It is a work in progress. Based on the TEC advice, the board of Te P\u016Bkenga commissioned some independent expertise as well, to review their change processes so far, that have made some quite robust recommendations about that. It is still a work in progress. There is still a lot more that needs to be done. I still have confidence in Te P\u016Bkenga undertaking that change process, but it is a complex programme of change and it does have risk associated with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774b1c335588418eb708318cf2ceef69\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the report produced by the Auditor-General that notes \u201CIt is important that Te P\u016Bkenga address the underlying problems with financial viability within its network. The lack of a detailed plan about how it will do this is concerning.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b31d3096ba4af3b160e6121bb0d22d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the Auditor-General, and similar concerns have been raised by the Tertiary Education Commission. Te P\u016Bkenga has only been in existence for a relatively short period of time, and they have inherited a sector that was in a great deal of difficulty. So we do have to give them time and support to make sure they are getting to the bottom of the structural problems that they inherited from the 16 component organisations that make up Te P\u016Bkenga to make sure we get the sector back into a viable state. I would note that they continue to deliver educational outcomes for their learners whilst they are undertaking this reform programme. In fact, there are some very good indicators there, including the fact that the number of people engaged in work-based learning, which now also comes under the Te P\u016Bkenga umbrella, has been continuing to increase, including a 50 percent increase in the number of building and construction apprentices, for example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221331e3411a64c3c92961667fa068a40\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think the public of New Zealand will consider the $120 million of taxpayer money spent on merging polytechnics into Te P\u016Bkenga has been well spent when Te P\u016Bkenga has made the institutes of technology and polytechnics (ITP) sector less financially viable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b42c5a368a4142afae771faa7df59cdc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely reject the premise of the member\u2019s question, and, if she\u2019d listened to my primary answer, she would know that the assertion in her own question is wrong. In fact, the deficits were being forecast before the reform programme was undertaken. There are transitional deficits as this reform programme is being undertaken, as were projected when the reform programme was announced and started. We do expect that we will see the delivery of a significantly better sector, but that is going to take some time. It is a complex programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e2551e4fe64125acc531a998844e39\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall the number of times he went to the Minister of Finance when he first became the Minister responsible for the ITP sector to have to bail out polytechnics because they were going under?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474e05d8ccb44e0ebbe2d7b53dce47b2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in fact, I do. Over $90 million had to be put into the existing institutes of technology and polytechs within the first couple of years that we were in Government just to keep the lights on, and the forecasts were indicating that that would run into the hundreds of millions of dollars if a reform was not undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022648050b9995345dfae023edb49c7c801\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5382dc339c645cfb14d0ff28315c1b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5382dc339c645cfb14d0ff28315c1b0\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made about supporting greater access to driver licence testing and training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00228e9d74c5160144bea70a0def854a49e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e9d74c5160144bea70a0def854a49e0\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I joined my colleague the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, to announce support to help 64,000 New Zealanders access driver licence testing and training. Having a driver licence is a key requirement for up to 70 percent of jobs, yet a big portion of our community can\u2019t access training or tests due to costs or other barriers such as location. Evidence shows that getting a driver\u2019s licence is an important step in obtaining employment, staying out of the justice system, and staying safe on our roads. This $86.5 million investment from Budget 2022 will have tangible results for people progressing through the driver licensing system and broader social and economic benefits for Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228077ab091de343a98b69beaec51a0d57\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How does this scheme make it easier for people to get drivers\u2019 licences?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221368ec6c026149cead0350bd446320ee\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: This investment will provide targeted support for people to progress through the drivers\u2019 licensing system by providing access to high-quality lessons to ensure that drivers are ready for the road. We are improving access to testing through initiatives, such as partnering with communities and increasing driver testing officers\u2019 capabilities and capacity to meet the needs of communities. Waka Kotahi will also provide mobile testing options for learner theory tests so that community members can access testing in locations such as community centres, marae, and schools in remote and rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c191ba4d06db4a0c9e9be32200fccb35\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What, if any, are the flow-on benefits of ensuring people have access to drivers\u2019 licences?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3f01279aeed43ad8789af2d76b2d840\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: There are many. Drivers who remain engaged within the licensing system and progress to their full licence have been shown to have improved road safety outcomes. It stands to reason, therefore, that greater access and support for individuals learning to drive will result in lower rates of serious injuries and deaths on our roads\u2014a key focus of our Government\u2019s Road to Zero programme. Removing the barriers to driver licence training also helps to prevent fines, court, and the risk of criminal penalties, providing pathways to work for those that otherwise might face barriers, and, in doing so, unlocking social, economic, and productivity benefits right across our economy and society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aeea84faf2e426aa5e8e87b70771a79\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the average wait time to sit a restricted driver\u2019s licence test has doubled between 2018 and 2019, and doubled again between 2019 and 2022; if so, what is the Minister\u2019s target for wait times to sit a restricted driver\u2019s licence test?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd97278b36e49a1a3c36e82baee2c8f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I think that the member and most reasonable people would understand that the experience of COVID over the past couple of years has resulted in an increase in waiting times. Those are starting to come down in regions where resource has been applied, and this Government is putting an additional $86.5 million through this package to make sure that people have access to these services and that waiting times are acceptable and reasonable to support communities. I would note that initiatives like this would not be possible with great swingeing tax cuts for the wealthiest New Zealanders. We\u2019re investing in New Zealanders and access to the services they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c36bf52e6204495cb1dd3ad217e825b1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government still committed to five free driver\u2019s licence lessons for young people at secondary school, or is this just another broken promise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f830a4622c74f388a9b2e7020f49a83\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As per the announcement that the Minister for Social Development and Employment and I have made, we are providing, through this announcement\u2014as we\u2019re discussing in this question\u2014targeted support for those drivers\u2019 licensing candidates and communities who need the support within our system. That\u2019s what this $86.5 million investment will make. It will help over 64,000 people who might otherwise not get their driver licence to get one. That\u2019s a good outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae71196890564e69a2bd9473597508e8\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: How will this scheme specifically benefit those in rural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214370aa2b614aa4a11720aef33fb10b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I have received very active representation from Government MPs in rural electorates around this issue who do want to see there be better access to driver licence testing and training in their areas. This scheme will help by providing much more flexibility and resource for Waka Kotahi and the Ministry of Social Development to work with providers in those areas and to do innovative things like set up theory testing in community halls, marae, and schools by setting up block booking in areas. We know, in many of these rural areas, the current model doesn\u2019t necessarily meet the fiscal bottom line, but we don\u2019t want to leave those communities in the lurch. So this additional resourcing will enable us to do things like setting up block booking for people in those areas so that service providers can come in, take bookings, and get those young people into licences. This is going to be very good for rural New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea409fdd419e416cbef253a46d1f2d99\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2b7e8aa15cf4ddebb6ded3446a53101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2b7e8aa15cf4ddebb6ded3446a53101\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Is he confident in the performance of Corrections; if so, how does he explain a 29 percent increase in prisoner-on-staff assaults from November 2021 to February 2022, despite there being a decrease in sentenced prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002289db5e6c378b4033addc9821a930b3cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289db5e6c378b4033addc9821a930b3cf\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I support the work of Corrections. While no violence is acceptable, the demographic of the prison population has changed over the last few years, with higher proportions of gang members, higher proportions of people with convictions for violence, and increased numbers of people with mental health and drug and alcohol issues. This is having an impact on violence in prison. Corrections now encourage reporting of any inappropriate behaviour regardless of how minor, whereas previous Governments did not. It is important that even minor behaviour is no longer ignored. Reducing violence and aggression is a priority and I\u2019ve told Corrections to undertake priority work to try and turn these numbers around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297021c96b30948818a2a4d9b62a3c223\u0022\u003EToni Severin\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Minister say to a Corrections Association of New Zealand spokesperson who said to me, \u201CThe Minister signed off on a five-point action plan on 12 May 2021. To date, it has had zero effect and we call it the five-point inaction plan.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e8dd1c874f4f55a1b3515b385470e5\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d encourage that person to continue working with their unions and with Corrections to address the issues that we\u2019re concerned about. As I said, no aggression and violence in prisons is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31f142b86954bdab8d9b65f7db5f866\u0022\u003EToni Severin\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the annual number of reconvictions for individuals serving electronic monitoring sentences for violence charges increased by over 33 percent between 2017 and 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f4cb1cdd0c47b28d2f48423f9fb4a3\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can I just clarify. Is she talking about people in prison or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fdff7eeb2b42efb3d2d6e7dec0eae6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e4ca80499f48e3bb9586cbc6453cd0\u0022\u003EToni Severin\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s to do with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca156fbd34c4920b6a06ad101ab6e56\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ll get you to ask the question again, and be very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022445445\u0022 data-id=\u0022586105d5aa8144339b654ab700655f15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022445445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586105d5aa8144339b654ab700655f15\u0022\u003EToni Severin\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the annual number of reconvictions for individuals serving an electronic monitoring sentence for a violence charge increased by over 33 percent between 2017 and 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c3a64314fd545f991df0b67b9d77a78\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I dispute those numbers. Rehabilitation and reimprisonment rates have actually gone down under this Government. It\u2019s a bit unclear, really, where she was heading because there was so much to that question, but you can see in the annual report for Corrections that rehabilitation and reimprisonment rates have actually decreased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261b0b7725e90406fa9b4e5d59890df11\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fe98112e2204cb8bb1da4df816fedf0\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022\u2014Approval\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd98df0a3654e42bdb9571c7a217be4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd98df0a3654e42bdb9571c7a217be4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That, pursuant to section 4A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022, made under section 4 of that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a reasonably technical motion that, with the approval of Parliament, allows then the order to be promulgated and for drugs listed in the order to then appear in the appropriate schedule in the Misuse of Drugs Act. This is a measure designed to provide protection from harm in the face of a growing presence or risk of presence of the drugs listed so that our communities and our people are kept safe from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe nature of the Misuse of Drugs Act does attract some commentary from some quarters as, amongst other things, it is about making sure that certain substances are appropriately classified and, with the appropriate level of classification reflecting the level of harm that they pose, then there are measures available if those drugs are abused or improperly used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThese orders providing for the classification of drugs in these circumstances are on the basis of advice from the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs, and their judgment is that, of the drugs listed in the order, the current controls and restrictions on them do not adequately reflect the potential harms and risks that they pose. Approving this order means that we not only provide greater safety in relation to the presence of these particular drugs in our community but meet our international obligations under a variety of international instruments: the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, and the Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESome of these drugs are ones that are already present in New Zealand but now pose a level of risk that they need to be reclassified. Some are drugs that we know from intelligence are abroad and there is a much higher potential or risk that they will make their way into New Zealand. These are measures to make sure that, with the appropriate classification, it affords proper protection to New Zealanders who might otherwise be subject to their use or abuse. On that note, I commend the motion to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229c8af62645474e9aa0968cab989996e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c8af62645474e9aa0968cab989996e2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022b85214ff886847d9908c5e81d68eb9d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b85214ff886847d9908c5e81d68eb9d2\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This motion came to the Health Committee. It is very administrative, and what it looks to do is to classify or reclassify 49 substances under the Misuse of Drugs Act. These are very serious substances. They include alpha-PVP, which is a controlled drug analogue; amides and carbamates, which are precursors to methamphetamine; specified fentanyl analogues, and we know that overseas that fentanyl has become one of the pre-eminent drug concerns; and specified synthetic opioids, and these are psychoactive substances when used for the primary purpose of inducing a psychoactive effect. The order also talks to prescription medicines, controlled drug analogues, and a range of chemicals that don\u2019t fit into any one particular category. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIt was explained to the Health Committee that these were all recommended by the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs and that classifying substances in this order is not about criminalising people, but it\u2019s more about people who use harmful drugs\u2014how we can give authorities the tools to better deal with people, and, particularly, to have better tools for those who manufacture and supply harmful drugs. They said to us that doing this will provide better investigative powers for the New Zealand Customs Service and the New Zealand Police to disrupt supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWe asked about some of the implications on particular service areas, particularly midwives and their prescribing of fentanyl in a legitimate way. The ministry said that in consultation with the midwifery groups, the drug regulations had been amended to allow fentanyl and tramadol to be added to the list that midwives can prescribe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ECan I point out Penny Simmonds\u2019 member\u2019s bill in a similar area, which looks to reclassify the term \u201Cmedical practitioner\u201D to authorise prescribers as it relates particularly to nurse practitioners, who might also be excluded from obtaining section 29 drugs. This is a similar process that\u2019s happened to midwives here so that they\u2019ve been allowed to prescribe fentanyl. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThese are very serious medicines or precursors with the ability to create great harm. The select committee unanimously supported the progress of the order, including our Green colleagues on that select committee, and so we had unanimous support for this order to come to the House. The National Party supports this order through to its conclusion. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022abbd2e63d4ab45b9a0295bdb47350afd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abbd2e63d4ab45b9a0295bdb47350afd\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House for an extra five minutes on this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d04262bdcab41cebdfda812f7861613\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c8ecf8113d64230996e2f2533800aa9\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll be as fast as I can then. The Greens are opposing this Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b32ba8183c4a5ba6400666e96c1c95\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave of the House for Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick to have an extra two minutes for her speech in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9607b39136446482ea07a4687bd19c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. A member is not able to seek leave on behalf of another member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36f9713385d46a597fb0fd31036a46c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s not dramatically different from the previous leave sought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee20544d55144aba814cdbc0d0bf15b6\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223061c21f34d94f59bfcb42b37dc6e090\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Another point of order, Brooke van Velden?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274f72c128bf3467189467a51b10431fb\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for the Green Party to have the ACT Party\u2019s extra five minutes in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5c6f5e3324429f9c52ea066582b036\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s in the same context. That would be asking me to overrule a determination of the Business Committee. [Interruption] Oh, I stand corrected. Normally, that would be done out\u2014but that\u2019s fine. If you\u2019re doing that, we\u2019ll do a 10-minute speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e87da5c1dd414deb9bea98021b5cdf66\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Brilliant. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you to the ACT Party. So I\u2019m contributing to this debate today\u2014and thank you, as well, to the member opposite, Chris Bishop. I\u2019m standing on behalf of the Greens today to oppose the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022. I think it\u2019s really important to be given this time to unpack exactly why that is, and we do this because we fundamentally oppose the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 and there are so few opportunities in this House to discuss or debate this Frankenstein law, of which this Order in Council only served to continue to pump with metaphorical steroids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EFor those who are listening and uninitiated, I think it is really important to unpack this mechanism that we are grappling with today in the form of an Order in Council. This isn\u2019t quite a law that we are passing but an Order in Council, which needs parliamentary approval. This is important to point out because the mechanisms that exist within the enabling legislation\u2014that is, the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975\u2014mean that if you want to classify or reclassify a substance that is, in practice, effectively introducing or increasing criminal penalties associated to a substance, you only need an Order in Council like this. That has a turn-around of about a month. That is a very different process to one that exists if you were seeking to declassify or to reduce the criminal penalties associated to any given substance as listed in the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. That is a really important point to make because, effectively, we have baked into that law a ratcheting-up that makes it incredibly difficult to change or to reverse, especially when new evidence comes forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll unpack further those issues with regard to the very narrow remit that the expert advisory committee has. So if you were seeking to try and declassify or to reduce the criminal penalties associated to a substance because new evidence came out about where it sits in relation to harm for other substances, you can\u2019t do this passage of an Order in Council, which takes a matter of a few weeks; it\u2019s required for you to pass an amendment bill to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. And as the Greens, in particular, have experienced over the past several years and definitely in the last two decades, in attempting to make those amendments to declassify or reduce criminal penalties as associated to certain substances and the massive months\u2019 worth, if not years\u2019 worth, of process to go through that first reading, second reading, committee of the whole House, and third reading stage\u2014let alone the months\u2019 worth of opportunity to scrutinise something at a select committee\u2014it is quite frankly unfathomably unfair that we have a situation where you can see penalties increased through a process as swift as this one in Order in Council. So, once again, I want to thank my colleagues\u2014particularly Brooke van Velden\u2014for enabling me to unpack this in this debate today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis is, again, as I\u2019ve already alluded to, yet another example baked into the fundamental problem of the Misuse of Drugs Act, which biases and, arguably, actually incentivises criminal punishment whilst making any alternative approach, actually, incredibly difficult to achieve. The same has to be said of the establishment of the expert advisory committee in the early 2000s by virtue of amendment. Now, the expert advisory committee was established, importantly, to try and provide some expert basis with regard to how substances were being classified in relation to each other with regard to harm. However, the remit of the expert advisory committee is such that they can only recommend where substances should be classified\u2014that is, how much of a criminal penalty they should get\u2014as opposed to being able to recommend any alternative approach, such as evidence-based approaches, to actually reduce drug harm in our communities. Literally, all the expert advisory committee can, therefore, do is make recommendations around ratcheting up or increasing or introducing new criminal penalties associated to substances as listed in the Misuse of Drugs Act. They cannot make recommendations that are evidence based such as Te Ara Oranga, the fascinating and fantastic programme rolled out in collaboration between DHB and police in Northland, which\u2014interestingly, it appears as though we have consensus in this House\u2014is a phenomenal programme that is in need of expansion. Just for those who are uninitiated, Te Ara Oranga is a programme that seeks to reduce methamphetamine demand by targeting those who are currently caught up in the supply chain. It has seen a 34 percent reduction in harm and criminal offending, and for every dollar invested is returning between $3 and $7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI do need to note, with regard to particularly this classification and presumption of supply Order in Council that we\u2019re considering today, that it\u2019s quite the opposite kind of approach and, again, one that is disabled fundamentally by the Misuse of Drugs Act, in that it basically seeks to decriminalise those who are experiencing addiction problems and in turn supports them with drug harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhile the drugs classified in this Order in Council are dangerous, as I have always said, and as the Greens have always maintained, when you consider that a substance in and of itself can be harmful, the next question has to be, how do you go about reducing that harm? We know that ratcheting up criminal penalties won\u2019t reduce drug harm. In fact, the only thing that criminal prohibition with regard to substances has ever achieved is in fact more drugs available on the market, evidenced by the fact that we have had numbers of these Orders in Council over the past two decades, which have continued to classify more and more substances, in turn requiring the classification of more and more substances, because it turns out that when you criminally prohibit something, those who are baking up illicit substances in their kitchens or otherwise will become those home chemists and create even more substances, which in turn creates more drug harm, more people in the prison system, more families torn apart, and more lives ruined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also really worth, I think, pointing out another one of the fundamental problems with regards to the presumption of supply, which, of course, this Order in Council goes to the heart of and others have alluded to in their contributions. This is one of the very rare areas of law where the burden of proof is reversed. To unpack that, if you are somebody who was accused of a crime by the police and by the State, you are put into the courts where, typically, the usual presumption is that of innocent until proven guilty. It is the case with the Misuse of Drugs Act that when you have a threshold above what is noted in the Misuse of Drugs Act classification\u2014which, again, this Order in Council is seeking to amend for a schedule of 49 different substances\u2014you are then in that court experiencing a reversal of that burden of proof. In layman\u2019s terms, that means that instead of the State having to prove you guilty, you yourself are being presumed guilty and having to prove your innocence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232cc484a845b4dd6bdc6e9bb01f89727\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a motion on a schedule to the Misuse of Drugs Act, not a lecture on burden of proof, in respect of the Misuse of Drugs Act. Ms Swarbrick\u2019s wandering all over the place without any real reference other than the odd gratuitous one to the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d406bc09fd84970b8a782e625ada433\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been listening very carefully to the member\u2019s speech and I do agree to a point what the member has raised. However, I have given the member a wide scope and there have been times within her speech which have been relevant, and I have to have a judgment of the overall relevance to the motion on the table. It is, in my opinion, not beyond the ability of the member to bring everything that she has said into order, and I would ask the member in the last two minutes to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c39b9effaa04a4aae42c307912cf885\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Because, of course, today we are debating a motion regarding the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022, which makes amendment to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, particularly with regard to classification and presumption of supply. That is why I am referring to the reversal of the burden of proof as laid out in the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, when it is presumed that you are supplying a substance because you are found to have over a certain threshold. Of course, this Order in Council seeks to classify or reclassify 49 substances. I therefore think, for those following at home, but also for sake of Hansard, that it is incredibly important that we contextualise what this Order in Council actually does in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, summarising then, this reversal of the burden of proof has been found to be inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and the Supreme Court. Also, former Attorneys-General have found it to be so. Therefore, it is the case that the Greens must oppose this notice of motion regarding the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022, because what it does is simply further entrench a Frankenstein law which biases criminal prohibition and the punishment of those who, simply and frankly, need an evidence-based approach. Drugs, it seems, are winning the war on drugs, and I believe that it\u2019s time that this House gave evidence a chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227024c7fb64374e70a4fa95425dc915b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That, pursuant to section 4A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2022, made under section 4 of that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000252\u0022\u003EOrder approved.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a9721948de4444a808c0187ccdedc30\u0022\u003EFisheries Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243428db98cff4c56b832ffd4f6b22fa6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228aecfcd4ee53458ba00bbb17e8bd1143\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aecfcd4ee53458ba00bbb17e8bd1143\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Fisheries Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d991c6c2ec4a9e9f49daa53894f5dd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f40918fb3204fb0bb16fbb3a58069cc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sir. I move, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Primary Production Committee to consider the Fisheries Amendment Bill and, at the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 12 September 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill is needed to strengthen and modernise New Zealand\u2019s fisheries management system to create a more sustainable, higher-value operating model for fisheries and to better incentivise good commercial fishing practices. The fisheries management system overall has served New Zealand well. However, it is a product of its time and it reflects the science and technology that was available when it was developed in the 1980s and 1990s, and because of some of those constraints within the system, there are disincentives for better fishing practice, which can reduce the catch of unwanted fish. Current rules contribute to commercial fishers catching too much and then discarding too much, both in terms of less-valuable species and different-sized fish. This of course has an effect on the fishery, which has an effect on the economics as well as the sustainability of the resource. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPerhaps one of the most serious aspects of the current regime is the illegal discarding of unwanted fish. This was shown under the last National Government when Operations Achilles and Hippocamp came to light, and, as a consequence, the then Minister, the Hon Nathan Guy, kicked off some of the measures that are ending up in this in respect of the likes of cameras on boats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhen we get better rules, we can also start to improve some of the offence provisions that are in the existing Act. Historically, because fisheries offending has been so hard to detect, when it is detected, normally far out at sea, far from the public eye, the penalties for these hard to detect breaches have been very severe so as to disincentivise them, and now that we\u2019ve got new technologies such as on-board cameras, we\u2019ve got the opportunity for improved monitoring and verification and for consequential changes to offence provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to address the issues of both legal and illegal discards by simplifying and strengthening the current rules around what fish and aquatic life can be landed and what can be returned to sea. In response to these new rules, the bill proposes to introduce new graduated offences, rules to improve the effectiveness of on-board cameras, and related cost-recovery arrangements, and it also makes some changes to enable quicker decision-making in respect of fishing, perhaps within a fishing year, in a way that will be good for the industry as well as the environment. The bill also proposes to introduce a new defence to allow commercial fishers to lawfully return catch to the sea when necessary to save protected species. Strangely, that\u2019s currently illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThese changes sit within the reform agenda that we\u2019ve got going, which includes the introduction of electronic catch and position reporting, and on-board cameras being rolled out across most of the inshore fleet. By simultaneously improving the level of monitoring and verification of catch with on-board cameras, reducing the ability of fishers to illegally return unwanted catch to the sea, and providing for proportionate offences and penalties, we will incentivise better fishing practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWith respect to new landings and discard rules, the bill amends the Fisheries Act and associated regulations to clarify that all quota management fish caught by commercial fishers must be landed and accounted for within the fisheries management system unless they fall within an exception that has been issued by the Minister. The bill proposes to establish three criteria for the Minister to consider when issuing exceptions for returning catch to the sea. These are, firstly, whether the stock or species has an acceptable likelihood of survival; secondly, whether retention will have a negative economic value\u2014by that they mean whether it\u2019s going to spoil other catch in the hold; for example, ammoniating catch species if, in the hold, it will ruin the other fish\u2014and also to consider whether in some cases mandatory returns are needed for biological, fishing management, or ecosystem purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESome current exceptions of stocks and species will meet the new criteria and will continue in place. Most stocks and species will be transitioned into the new system over a four-year period. This will start with the most significant species by catch volume or by proportion of total landings. I expect that within the first two years, exceptions covering 75 percent of the catches of fish below the minimum legal size and 97 percent of live releases under Schedule 6 will be reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs part of the transition, there will also be amendments to fishing regulations to reflect the new system and these amendments will be in place before the end of the transition period\u2014i.e., 30 September 2026. The transition period is also needed to allow fishers some time to adjust their operations and to develop ways of creating value from currently unwanted fish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill enables through regulations new ways that fishers can dispose of unwanted catch on land. Under current settings, they\u2019ve got to deliver their fish to a licensed fish receiver or through wharf sales, with some limited exceptions, but there\u2019s no obligation on the likes of the licensed fish receiver to accept all catch. So new regulations will give fishers access to other legal ways to dispose of their catch on land where it is appropriate, which will be in very limited circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, the bill alters the penalties regime. The maximum penalty for the most serious offending will be retained, but an infringement and demerit point system will be developed through regulation to address lower-level repeat offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EChanges are also needed to support the effective use of on-board cameras. The bill clarifies that all commercial fishing - related activities can be effectively observed by equipment such as on-board cameras. The bill also clarifies that tools such as on-board cameras that are used to develop a service that is cost-recoverable can be cost-recovered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are also changes being made through the opportunity this bill presents to enable faster rule changes at times within a season. Things are pretty sticky at the moment and sensible changes are prevented, so we\u2019re trying to update this. For example, there could be a pre-agreed range of catch enabled in advance and triggered within a season so that they can be used for the benefit of the industry or, if we\u2019re approaching a sustainability limit, for the benefit of the environment. The bill also proposes similar changes to amateur fishing regulations by empowering the Minister to specify recreational management controls in a regulatory instrument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the protected species defence, currently no defence is available for returning catch to the sea for the purpose of saving or releasing protected species like sharks and rays. The bill proposes a new defence provision that will allow commercial fishers to return those to ensure their survival\u2014not just protected race and shark species but also marine mammals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere has already been extensive consultation on these proposals over the years, and, indeed, some of these changes have been long called for, but really couldn\u2019t be made until we had funded cameras on boats. So that consultation has included another round between February and March 2019 and has shaped the policy proposals in the bill. Continued engagement after the bill passes will be integral to successful implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis is going to the Primary Production Committee. It is an important process. I look forward to receiving the select committee report at the completion of their deliberations, and I encourage people to submit. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed40016dbeb842289d22dc67f217a88b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed40016dbeb842289d22dc67f217a88b\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, along with my colleagues, look forward to sharing the National Party\u2019s thoughts on this bill, and, as the Minister has said over the last 10 minutes, this has had a pretty long gestation. It\u2019s been the thick end of a decade where issues relating to the quota management system and, particularly, the sustainable use of New Zealand fisheries\u2014that it\u2019s not operating as effectively as it could be and that the incentive regime around reducing unwanted catch is not optimally set up. We had the 2015 review, we had the 2016 Heron report\u2014which the Minister referenced\u2014under Nathan Guy\u2019s time, and there\u2019s been subsequent Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) compliance projects as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EBut, as the regulatory impact statement notes pretty clearly, whilst there\u2019s broad support for the need for reform, there\u2019s still limited alignment, in our view, on what to do. One thing that keeps coming back consistently is there is a lack of trust that exists within the sector for reasons that can\u2019t be traversed in these 10 minutes, but it remains a challenge to ensure that we get the right outcome with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAs the Minister has said, the four main provisions: amending rules for what fish must be landed and what must be returned to the sea, enabling graduated offences and penalties, streamlining the decision-making process for setting catch limits, and some technical management changes to the Act to assist with the roll-out of cameras. At its core, it removes the Schedule 6 exemptions that are currently in place, with a far narrower band of opportunity for fishers to release to the sea, and, of course, that is supported with the planned significant roll-out of on board cameras. So, in a nutshell, this bill imagines significantly less fish will be discarded, cameras and observers in increasing numbers to check compliance, graduated penalties, and streamlined decision-making. At first brush, it all sounds reasonable, but then when you dig into the detail there\u2019s some genuine complaints that we have real concerns with, and we expect the select committee to be able to have, as the Minister said, some focused deliberation on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EFishers are likely to exceed their annual catch entitlement\u2014which is called ACE\u2014and will have to pay deemed value because they\u2019ll be returning more fish landed than was hitherto the case. There is a limited market currently for that unwanted smaller fish, and so there is likely to be more fish dumped to waste, but the penalty regime was, in our view, an improvement over the quarter of a million dollars\u2014a $10,000 fine for one or two fish that are accidentally caught in a net when it gets dropped again seems excessive, and the risk is that these rule changes are not as flexible as what the sector actually needs. You can have a theory which sounds fine in Wellington, but it must actually pass the sniff test of being workable in a boat out in the ocean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThere is going to be significant commercial impact. Your own regulatory impact statement makes it very clear\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe expect significant fleet rationalisation will occur over the medium term.\u201D\u2014that means less people involved in fishing vessels in our local inshore fisheries. That is an outcome of this, and we need to be very mindful of that as we progress through this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYour regulatory impact statement also says that even with cameras\u2014and this is actually, I think, a critical issue\u2014and observers, it is very difficult to determine the size of the fish, the species of the fish, and the likelihood of survival of the fish, and is very challenging and difficult for both observers and cameras. So cameras are not a panacea. They clearly help, but the idea that these rules are going to be comfortably overseen by a plethora of cameras needs some testing. Indeed, in the conversations that I\u2019ve had in recent weeks with fishing operators themselves, they have talked\u2014with conversations that they\u2019ve had with MPI, they have talked of up to 30 cameras per vessel. I mean, the cost is prohibitive. You really get a sense there that whoever that was in MPI who was making that assessment of how to manage the issue had lost all sense of reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo we need to have clarity from the Government around how these cameras will be rolled out. The technical amendments make sense, but we\u2019ve got to be assured that this is going to be a practical application of this technology, and the privacy concerns that have been raised with me over recent times absolutely have to be clarified. We have raised specific questions of the ministry with respect to the privacy issues relating to the footage from the cameras, and, to date, have not been given a satisfactory response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo a number of significant concerns that we raise from the National Party side of the House. One of the key ones for me based on my, I guess, primary industries history is that when you look through this regulatory impact statement designed by your officials, Government members, there\u2019s not a single mention of the word \u201Cpragmatic\u201D\u2014not a single word. Ultimately, as the Minister has said, if you\u2019re going to land something here\u2014excuse the pun\u2014that is actually going to be workable from an industry and stakeholder perspective, pragmatism needs to infuse the final conversations over the next two or three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EBut, in the spirit of fairness, there are elements here that deserve support. There is value in simplifying the decision-making framework so it is more nimble and fleet-footed. This is an ongoing expectation of consumers globally, that you have a line of sight over the sustainable fishing practices for your fisheries and that you can demonstrate that with transparent reporting and data. Our competitors are moving into this space, particularly our European friends. They are moving their fleet into the same type of regulatory regime and, as we know here, as an export-orientated country, you must keep a very keen eye on what your consumers are expecting of you and ensure that your own business practices are meeting that and, if necessary, have that backed up by a regulatory regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThere is, in short, an issue to improve here. The real question that we need to ask ourselves over the next three months is: is what the Minister has provided in this suggested bill exactly the best to progress it? We would argue there is much improvement needed before it finally gets passed in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe reason, ultimately, that the National Party is supporting this bill through the first reading is those points of principle, if you like, in terms of what\u2019s happening globally that I\u2019ve outlined but also the Minister made it very clear that he has been, I think, quite realistic in terms of the transitional arrangements. They\u2019re to be in place until 2026. That does give the sector some time to respond but, above all, they must be able to respond to final regulations that pass the sniff test of practicality. I have seen it before over the years that the Wellington idea just simply fails when asked to operate in an industry context and, in this case, a marine context many miles from the New Zealand shore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got to get the balance right here. We\u2019ve got a fantastic industry with fantastic people, a product that is world-renowned and the demand for it is growing. We\u2019ve got to ensure that a regulatory framework that we finally come back from select committee with is fit for purpose to ensure that they remain successful in the future. The National Party supports, with some reservation, this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00226166b5331ebf4703b78221495b40fe1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226166b5331ebf4703b78221495b40fe1f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00220b812c8349624f3d87e2f2f3210cf5df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b812c8349624f3d87e2f2f3210cf5df\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m delighted to speak in support of the Fisheries Amendment Bill. Can I acknowledge Mr Muller, who has just resumed his seat, for their support for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a really important piece of legislation. It has had a long gestation under the previous Government and now through Minister Parker, our oceans and fisheries Minister, who is leading this work and has actually brought it through to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis Government has a vision. We want to ensure the long-term health and resilience of our ocean and coastal ecosystems, including the role of fisheries. With that vision to the fore, we have a very busy work programme of a range of measures that are coming through, such as the implementation of cameras on boats, and now also through fisheries systems reform through this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo this is a lot of work. I want to acknowledge all of the officials that have been involved, and likewise the stakeholders, who are a very important part of our industry, because let\u2019s not forget that fishing plays a very important role in New Zealand, in our economy, and in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ECommercial, recreational, and customary interests all form our fisheries regime, and let\u2019s not forget that commercial fishing employs 13,300 people. It contributes $4.2 billion per year in total economic activity. It included $1.35 billion in export revenues just through to the year June 2021. In addition, recreational fishing is also a very popular activity in New Zealand. About 700,000 people each year enjoy recreational fishing, and they spend almost $1 billion on recreational fishing and related activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe mustn\u2019t forget of central importance is the role of tangata whenua in fisheries\u2014the customary fishing rights that have been affirmed through the Treaty of Waitangi, through settlements that we have with the introduction that came of the quota management system. So there are a lot of stakeholders up right across the country who have a very keen interest in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a great piece of legislation because it updates a range of measures. Ultimately, we want to improve the behaviour and we want to improve the productivity of our industry but also we want to look after the resource, because we can have all the rules in the world and we can have all of the measures in place, but if we don\u2019t look after the resource, we don\u2019t look after what\u2019s in the ocean, then what do we have? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo I commend the Minister for introducing this legislation. Landings and discards\u2014we want to really update these rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to commend the Primary Production Committee. I know they will be giving a rigorous examination of this bill and will be hearing from submitters from up and down the length of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut, ultimately, these are measures, which need to be put in place, have long been called for. I want to acknowledge once again the role that this Government is playing, led by our Minister, to ensure that we continue to drive this work programme forward and to deliver on that vision. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002257b720b9c7e34c2ab261869a4f8b326b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257b720b9c7e34c2ab261869a4f8b326b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Tim van de Molen. It is good to see you. Welcome back to the House of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6ca73fe674e4d56ac0f69e4d8f8cf85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6ca73fe674e4d56ac0f69e4d8f8cf85\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s wonderful to be back here in person rather than just on these beautiful screens that we have here now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m happy to rise and take a call on this and I\u2019m looking forward to being a member of the select committee, the Primary Production Committee, that will consider this more closely as we progress through the legislative process. We absolutely agree there are some sensible aspects of this bill that we support, but, as my colleague Mr Muller has mentioned, there are some areas that we are concerned about as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, I just want to touch on some of the comments we\u2019ve just heard as well in terms of the Labour Party vision for fisheries. I think most Kiwis would agree that a sustainable ocean environment is something that we should all aspire to have. It\u2019s an important part of what it is to be Kiwi, and given that we have the fourth-largest exclusive economic zone, it\u2019s critical that we manage that appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI would just note though that we haven\u2019t seen much action in terms of marine reserves, so I certainly encourage the Government to step up the pace there. Actually, the five years under this Government is the longest time since the 1980s in which we\u2019ve not had a new marine reserve established. There were 11 under the nine years of the National Party, so I\u2019d encourage the Labour Party to step up and enact some of that vision we just heard around protecting our fisheries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EIndeed, the other comment I would just pick up on was around the recreational fishing aspect. That is very much a part of what Kiwis do as well, and enjoy. I enjoy going out and dropping a line in the water\u2014not so much the catching part but dropping the line is more my area of expertise. But, again, we\u2019ve seen some terrible behaviour over the last year or 18 months ago, when there was a story that came out of horrendous overfishing of pink maomao up the Coromandel Peninsula, which was actually a loophole that was allowed, and that overfishing of some thousands of fish caught recreationally was an area that really needed to be jumped on. So I know there has been some work done now, finally, from the Minister to try and address that, but it just highlights for me the fact that in the fisheries area overall there is still work to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAgain, I would just note that we need to ensure we are progressing our action quickly on this. I did write to the Minister shortly after that event aired publicly around a proposal that I put forward to put in a stopgap measure\u2014a temporary limit on the recreational finfish catch\u2014to ensure that that sort of behaviour couldn\u2019t be repeated. But the Minister turned it down at that time and it has taken until only just the last few months, I believe, for his proposal to come out to try and address that issue. So I hope that one does get solved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EIn terms of what we are looking at here, the main provisions: as we\u2019ve heard already, there\u2019s some good stuff in there, and we support the graduated offences and penalties aspects that are being considered and we\u2019ll be looking at whether they are appropriate, but also the technical management changes\u2014those things all make sense and there\u2019s not a massive issue with that. The other two aspects, though, that I do want to expand on a bit are around amending the rules for what fish must be landed and what must be returned. That\u2019s an area that has been reasonably controversial from both the commercial fishers\u2019 perspective and, obviously, recreational fishers in instances where they have seen some of these discarded fish washing up on beaches and there are the concerns they have around the sustainability of the commercial sector off the back of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about those commercial parts being addressed, but the one I would really like to delve into a bit more is around what\u2019s a pretty unique aspect, I suppose, of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research vessels like the Tangoroa, which, as part of their research, catch fish. In some instances, they catch quite large volumes of fish, and those fish can be discarded because they simply don\u2019t have the capacity on that vessel to process the volumes of fish that they are catching. I think that\u2019s an area that we really need to look at quite closely, and I\u2019d hope it could, potentially, come under this bill, because I think it\u2019s not a good example to see a Government research vessel discarding fish simply because they don\u2019t have sufficient processing capacity on board. I accept they\u2019re a research vessel, but, actually, I think it\u2019s sending the wrong signal to be discarding fish. So I\u2019d be interested to see whether those aspects would come under this bill as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThe other key point around streamlining the decision-making process for the setting of catch limits is an area that I\u2019m really keen to see improve, because we have seen that the Minister\u2019s actions over a number of years in terms of adjusting those limits has been a very significant change for a lot of those individual fisheries. When we think about the 642-odd fisheries that there are in terms of fish stocks around the country, making significant adjustments in some cases\u2014in some cases, well over 100 percent changes of significant magnitude to those commercial catch limits\u2014it makes it quite challenging for those commercial operators to be able to adapt their systems to either cope for a significant reduction in commercial catch, total allowable commercial catch (TACC), or a significant increase, which might give them opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo I would really like to see a tightening of the process\u2014and I hope that will come under this bill\u2014to really enable a more streamlined process, perhaps, of the scientific assessments to ensure that we are better monitoring those limits, because if we\u2019re only doing assessments of these fish stocks on a sporadic basis and that then shows there has been either a significant increase or decrease in that particular fish stock over the period of that time, the Minister\u2019s subsequent action is to adjust the total allowable catch (TAC) accordingly, but that can have massive implications. So I\u2019d really like to see this tightened up so that we don\u2019t see those sorts of massive swings upwards or downwards in the TAC, because that has a big impact for the TACC for our commercial operators, in particular, who are trying to run a business in this space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe saw, I think, that it was 2019 that was the most recent assessment. Only 290 fish stocks, I think, out of our 642 were assessed, so we\u2019re only talking about 49-odd percent of fish stocks being assessed and, at that point, 20 percent of those stocks that were assessed were considered to be overfished\u2014right? So of the fish stocks we assessed, and we certainly didn\u2019t do all of them\u2014granted it was 70- or 80-odd percent by volume of fish caught. But of those we assessed, one in five was overfished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo that, to me, says that we have some real issues around how we\u2019re managing these fish stock assessments, and we need to be a lot better at projecting those fluctuations and assessing movements in those. I accept that there\u2019s a cost alongside that, of course, but that\u2019s something that I really hope will be considered in some depth through the Fisheries Amendment Bill to ensure that in the first instance, we retain a very sustainable fishery\u2014that\u2019s something we should be putting first and foremost. It\u2019s very important for New Zealand anchor brand, but it\u2019s what everyone, I think, would want as well. But, alongside that, it gives more certainty then to those commercial operators, as I said, to have a more streamlined business operation, where they\u2019re not having to suddenly adjust for significant changes in their total allowable commercial catch limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, on that basis, I\u2019m happy to commend this bill. I look forward to, as I said, being a part of the select committee process. I am a little concerned, though, that we are seeing a shortened report back on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019ve seen this in a number of instances from this Government where they have put forward a reduced or shortened report-back time on a piece of legislation for no particular reason, it appears, other than perhaps it was late getting to the first reading stage and they\u2019ve been wanting to rush it through. The issue that raises is it potentially takes away the ability of everyone who might wish to have their voice heard to do so, given that shortened window. Granted, it\u2019s not excessively short like we\u2019ve seen on some of the other pieces of legislation, but my question would be why do we need to cut that back at all. Why can we not allow a fulsome process to occur on this bill, given, as Mr Muller mentioned, it has taken quite some time to get to this point? Why are we now rushing it and cutting down those few months for submitters to make their case heard when I believe it is absolutely critical that those submitters are heard? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re talking about making significant changes here for an important industry within New Zealand. We must hear their views on it. We have heard some views in the past, and Mr Muller, I know, and myself have had a number of conversations with some of these commercial operators, who have expressed concern around the practicality of implementation of some of these proposals around cameras, for example, and the costs alongside that. So I\u2019m very keen to ensure they have an appropriate window to give their views on this to make sure that we are coming up with practical legislation that can be implemented for the sake of the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, on that basis, I do support it and I look forward to being able to make some positive changes to, hopefully, get this to a point where it can pass with support from all parties across the House. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00228ad8484668ba4687ba4ee8b40611effd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ad8484668ba4687ba4ee8b40611effd\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Fisheries Amendment Bill as the chair of the Primary Production Committee, the committee that will be considering this piece of legislation. Can I acknowledge and thank the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries for bringing this piece of legislation to the House and to us. I know that my fellow select committee members will be looking forward to hearing from submitters, and there will no doubt be quite a lot of interest in this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe are an island nation and, as Tim van de Molen, the member who\u2019s just taken his seat, mentioned, we have many recreational fishers around New Zealand who quite enjoy getting out in the weekends and doing a dabble at fishing. Perhaps not catching, as the member mentioned, but they still have the enjoyment of being able to get out there and have a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard that this has a huge economic impact for our country as well, but, most importantly, I think what this bill works to do is to create a more sustainable fisheries model, and that is of utmost importance, because we have seen overfishing throughout the years and it just can\u2019t continue. It does also bring the fisheries management in line with the practices of the 2020s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThe member opposite raised a concern around what he believes is a truncated process. This is going to have a shortened time frame, and I just wanted to mention to the member that the reason for that is it is quite likely that 1 October is when the fishing year begins, and so we do need to have this piece of legislation back into the House and moving forward for that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe have heard that this bill will bring in graduated offences that will be proportionate to the offending that occurs. We\u2019re going to be covering off new rules and regulations around the landing and discarding of fish, which members already have gone into quite some depth around, and so I won\u2019t relitigate all of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis is a good piece of legislation, and I appreciate members opposite supporting it at first reading. We do look forward to the select committee process, where there\u2019ll be the opportunity for everyone to have input and bring this piece of legislation to fruition. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002265365af54643450995e8810f6274d352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265365af54643450995e8810f6274d352\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Fisheries Amendment Bill. The Greens will be supporting the bill to select committee in order to hear public views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill wouldn\u2019t have happened if it hadn\u2019t been for the work of Dr Glenn Simmons and the Auckland University business school and their exposure of the scale of dumping and high-grading in New Zealand fisheries. Their work, released in May 2016, really brought to public attention the fact that fish of low economic value were routinely being dumped overboard by fishers as they sought to target species of a higher value, higher grade, or avoid having to pay the deemed value penalty for catching quota fish species which they didn\u2019t have annual catch entitlement\u2014or ACE\u2014for. Dr Simmons showed that there was really gross under-reporting of what fishers were catching over many decades. Some 25 million tonnes of fish between 1950 and 2016 hadn\u2019t been reported by New Zealand to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo it has been a fundamental rule of the Fisheries Act for a very long time\u2014since 1986\u2014that when commercial fishers catch quota species of a legal size, they must land and report those catches. It\u2019s always been illegal to dump fish, but the system had relied on honest reporting. What the Simmons report and Operation Hippocamp and Operation Achilles showed\u2014which enforcement staff in the Ministry of Fisheries undertook because of the ministry\u2019s recognition of this ongoing problem of under-reporting and misreporting\u2014was that there was a lot of dishonesty in the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe problem with Operation Hippocamp and Operation Achilles was you had very effective enforcement staff, but senior management and the Ministry for Primary Industries made a decision not to follow through on their enforcement work and not to prosecute, and, as the Heron Report concluded, that process and decision making was flawed. So there\u2019s a whole issue of a lack of public confidence and trust in the fishing industry, and I think that while farmers throughout Aotearoa have recognised that they need to change their management practice and their farming techniques to earn that public trust and confidence and to maintain their social licence, the same thing hasn\u2019t happened in the fishing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got this bill, which is requiring that all fish be landed if they\u2019re in the quota system, and just in terms of terms, quota is a right to take fish from a stock. That generates an annual catch entitlement at the start of each fishing year\u2014in October\u2014which is the annual catching right, and of course that can be traded. Commercial fishers purchase an ACE to match the fish that they aim to catch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really disappointing that it\u2019s taken over eight years for the Ministry of Fisheries and Fisheries New Zealand to actually develop this legislation, but it is good that it is here, because this requirement that all quota species which are caught have to be brought back and landed should\u2014the hope is\u2014encourage more innovation and should encourage better utilisation of fish that are caught. Here we really need to learn from international best practice, from countries like Iceland: 80 percent of the fish that are caught in Iceland are used, whether it\u2019s taking calcium out of the fish frames to make calcium supplements, or whether it\u2019s using fish skins of cod to make high-end handbags. But in Aotearoa and elsewhere, a lot of the fish, once the fillets have been taken, are discarded, ground up into fishmeal, or, worse still, go to landfill. This requirement to land and to report, and the graduated system of penalties should help improve enforcement in this space, so we are supporting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut there are some criteria which provide some exceptions to the rule of landing all fish, and one of those is that retaining it would have a negative economic value. Now, the Minister referred to species which let off\u2014some of the shark species\u2014a high level of ammonia and taint the rest of the catch, but we have some concern around this criterion and, potentially, efforts of the industry seeking to widen that definition of \u201Cnegative economic value\u201D and what exceptions can be provided to enable them to discard more fish at sea. So we\u2019ll be particularly interested in the submissions on that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019d like to take up a point that Todd Muller raised in terms of the division within the sector. It was something that the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor commented on as well: the very high level of distrust amongst stakeholders of the data that\u2019s used to set the total allowable catch and within the sector generally. I really encourage all of those making submissions to think about the sustainability of fisheries, the collapse of a number of fish stocks that we\u2019re seeing, and the impact of climate change on our oceans, and to think of the bigger picture and the outcome for environmental management and good fisheries management, rather than just the interests of the commercial fishing sector, because we need to move beyond that division and we need to have a much more sensible and focused fisheries management system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s where the Green Party is disappointed in this bill\u2014that it\u2019s not moving to ecosystem-based fisheries management. It\u2019s not even seeking to give priority to the sustainability principles in the Fisheries Act. It\u2019s not using input controls. They were considered and then rejected\u2014input controls like closing more areas, having more controls and restrictions on the type of gear that can be used. We have a big problem with bycatch: the thousands of seabirds that are caught, the dozens of dolphins, the hundreds of fur seals that are caught each year in fisheries like the hoki fishery and the squid fishery. That bycatch issue isn\u2019t being adequately addressed by the industry and the bill doesn\u2019t really deal with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECertainly, there is a defence to release marine mammal species if they are caught. That is good, but there needs to be a stronger regulatory regime and much greater emphasis on sustainability, not only to ensure an ongoing fishery, but to recognise, as others have noted, that consumers are increasingly looking for real proof that wild fish are caught sustainably, and in Aotearoa New Zealand, we cannot establish that for all of the species, particularly because of the very limited data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhen you only have $22 million being spent, on average, in the years between 2017 and 2020 on fisheries research, that\u2019s a puny amount, and that contributes to the lack of data. Again, the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor highlighted that that leads to decisions based on uncertain data and information, and it has left big gaps in fisheries management. In Budget 2022, we need to see a much-greater investment in fisheries science and research in order to underpin a much more sustainable regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECertainly, there are provisions in the bill to ensure that cameras can be used to observe the processing and any discarding that happens on board once fish are landed, but, again, there needs to be a much more rapid roll-out of cameras on boats. It\u2019s not good enough just to prioritise the M\u0101ui dolphin fishery because of the concerns about the impact of trawling on M\u0101ui; they need to be used and rolled out much more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo we too in the Greens are concerned about the truncated select committee report-back period. We recognise that the Minister wants the bill in place for this fishing season, but then there\u2019s a four-year transition allowed, so it seems a bit at odds with doing it quickly and then allowing four years\u2019 transition. It would be better to ensure that the legislation is right, because there will be quite a lot of contested submissions on the bill. But we do encourage the Government to really focus on some of the more fundamentals and to move away from the ethos that we\u2019ve got at the moment, which focuses on maximum exploitation of fisheries\u2014fishing stocks down to the level at which it\u2019s assumed that they will maintain themselves. That is not the basis of ecosystem-based management or sustainable fishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the bill makes some small improvements. We\u2019ll be particularly interested in submissions, but at this stage we\u2019re only supporting it to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbeaf36d8bf94e76bd1429f6bf6d18d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbeaf36d8bf94e76bd1429f6bf6d18d4\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I stand on behalf of the ACT Party, and we oppose this bill. We find that it\u2019s an unnecessary and costly solution that appears to be looking for a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe note that the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 regulatory impact statement talked of extensive consultation over a long period of time about fisheries. They held public meetings, they had hui, they had one-on-one meetings with key Treaty partners, which includes the Iwi Fisheries Forum and Te Ohu Kaimoana. What they represent are the interests of M\u0101ori commercial fishing businesses, and they give advice to 58 mandated iwi organisations. That is indeed a large proportion of tangata whenua stakeholders. Other stakeholders who were also consulted, including those with interests in commercial and recreational fishing arenas, were small and large operators, those with quotas, individual fishers, and companies who fish using quotas: those with total allowable catches, and those with TACCs as well\u2014the total allowable commercial catch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat I found interesting was the feedback that was received by an independent technical advisory group conducting the consultation, who actually found that all groups\u2014whether they\u2019re M\u0101ori, recreational, commercial\u2014stated that the fisheries management system was sound. Yes, they said there was room for improvement, but every law has room for improvement. What this bill actually achieves, though, is not necessarily improvement but over-involvement with rules that have no proper cost-benefit analysis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe keep being told how we need to do better, and large sweeping changes occur off the back of these statements. ACT would like to point out just how good we actually are on the global scale, just for a nice change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMultiple international studies have ranked New Zealand\u2019s quota management system and its management of particular fish stocks against a range of global indicators. Our rankings in all of these studies have consistently been at the higher end compared to other countries. New Zealand scored amongst the highest of 53 countries that were analysed in an evaluation of compliance with article 7 of the Food and Agriculture Organization\u2019s Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries, and this covered six fields of fisheries management. We have ranked among the highest in the world in terms of prospects of fishing sustainability and the overall effectiveness of management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWith all these good international outcomes for our current management system, I then sought to find substantial data on the impacts of this legislation, and do you know what I found? It was actually not much, because there\u2019s very little analysis on the impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) noted in their regulatory impact statement that they have data limitations. Further to that consultation that was held in February and in March in 2019, they left MPI determining that they had little insight on the marginal impact on the operational costs or any one-off costs that may be required. MPI has acknowledged that the operational and administrative costs that fishers incur from catching and processing fish is not accessible to them and that there are varying complexities with each fishing operation. However, what MPI do state is that the majority of the cost for implementing this regime is, effectively, expected to fall directly on to the commercial operators, of which many are smaller, independent operators, and they will be hit the hardest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe proposed changes to landings and discard rules are going to have the greatest impact on our commercial operators. All licensed fish receivers, quota holders, and annual catch entitlement holders will be incurring extra and additional costs: added costs to an industry that does employ 13,300 people and contributes $4.2 billion per annum to our total economic activity; added costs to a system that has no need for such fundamental change, based on the consultation feedback to these proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESomething else that I read in the MPI regulatory impact statement has led me to have some concern. It\u2019s about how far the cameras on boats mandate is eventually going to go under this Government, and I wonder if this piece of legislation is a precursor to more invasive legislation that is yet to come. You see, MPI spoke of the need for cameras on boats to ensure that there\u2019s verification and monitoring of catches that can take place but that the landing and returning of fish to the sea can be checked\u2014that they can observe fishing. This is why they want to have their cameras on boats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut what caught my eye was the repeated use of the added phrase which is including transportation in capturing of the electronic equipment. I see that both the MPI document and now the bill also refers to provisions to install electronic and other equipment to observe fishing-related activities, and this includes \u201Cthe return, abandonment, processing, or sorting of fish, transportation connected with fishing,\u201D. MPI wanted to amend the definition of fishing to broaden the power relating to the installation of cameras on boats in order to observe wider fishing-related activities such as fish processing. Their definition of the processing of fish includes land-based activities related to fishing, such as the filleting of fish in fish factories and also at market. This Government makes a fine job of telling New Zealand businesses that while globally we\u2019re being hailed as one of the best in the world at management systems and sustainability, \u201CWe don\u2019t trust you to get it right and we want the ability to film everything that you do, just in case, and just because we can.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe all have an interest in ensuring that we have a sustainable fisheries regime and that we protect the species we harvest so our future generations also have a harvest supply, none more so than the fisheries sector. If they deplete our source at source and if they don\u2019t continue their world-wide recognition of the great job that they actually do in New Zealand waters, they won\u2019t have an industry. Like farmers, they have the greatest respect for their resource, and sustainability of the product is paramount to the success of the business. It\u2019s not rocket science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOne last point I\u2019d like to make: making changes without understanding the cost implications and making statements that the commercial sector will have to pay for these rules means that the commercial sector is going to have to offset these costs. Added costs to the purchase of kai moana during a cost of living crisis with no cost-benefit analysis, imposed on groups who believe that management is actually sound, is absolutely nuts. It\u2019s telling our communities that the reason your seafood has gone up in price is because the Government wants to watch how you got that fish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENo doubt there\u2019s a fair bit of work to work through in this bill, but at this stage of the process, ACT is opposing it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5a52c3e10834982ae882ec13962031b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5a52c3e10834982ae882ec13962031b\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise as a member of the Primary Production Committee, who will be taking on this bill, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293936789312e4145889266b6c17d742d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re on that too? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a34da4d9f4b4b0e9fdeb69ff14364c7\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014as a member of the Primary Production Committee, it\u2019s important to look at how much aquaculture does for our economy. The fishing seafood industry is worth $4.2 billion to our New Zealand economy and it employs over 13,000 people\u20142,500 of those are in the commercial fishing and aquaculture sector\u2014and New Zealand export earnings for seafood are $2 billion and are expected to rise from there, exporting over 267,901 tonnes, from a report I have read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EWhen I looked at the legislative statement and worked through some of these objectives, I noted from one of the members that he talks about pragmatism. I can say that we are a very pragmatic select committee, and so this bill coming to our select committee will get a very good hearing. We make such good use of all members in the select committee. We\u2019re quite collegial a lot of the time because we work in the interests of the primary sector. That is why I am so looking forward to doing the hard work that\u2019s required of us as we bring this legislation through all stages. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022626950e002bc4da28f132b1b02edfd38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022626950e002bc4da28f132b1b02edfd38\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Harete Hipango\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u002278d2ff6356fc404399dcf491c35bb226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278d2ff6356fc404399dcf491c35bb226\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you. I stand to take a call in the first reading for the National Party on the Fisheries Amendment Bill. I don\u2019t come from a level of experience in terms of this highly specialised interest area, but the experience that I do come from is in terms of relationships. In the Chamber this afternoon is the former chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. I acknowledge my colleague Rino Tirikatene in terms of the leadership that was there when Treaty settlement bills came before us on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and there were some significant components that were addressing these fisheries issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe Fisheries Amendment Bill, as has been well traversed in debates before the House, and it\u2019s been an interesting debate because people stand and rise and speak from various perspectives and contexts. So the purpose of this bill is to amend the Fisheries Act 1996 with an aim to strengthen the effectiveness of New Zealand\u2019s fisheries management system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe context that I address the House in also is as spokesperson for M\u0101ori development. M\u0101ori development from my lens and perspective is very much about our people, positioned in different places at different times. People, place, and the kaupapa\u2014what the purpose of this bill is. In my M\u0101ori development spokesperson role, part of that is about the M\u0101ori economy, which is a significant contribution not just to Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s economy\u2014it\u2019s some $70 billion and exponentially growing\u2014but the international economy, and M\u0101ori have a vested interest in fisheries\u2014a 50 percent vested interest\u2014in terms of the New Zealand fishing quota. So that\u2019s the context that I address the House in relation to this bill, the Fisheries Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t sit on the Primary Production Committee, which this bill, after the first reading, will go to, before the members of that committee, for prudent and responsible scrutiny around the particular elements and aspects, the detail, and the content to the letter of the proposed law. The context that I talked about also significantly\u2014the detail in terms of this bill has been spoken about, but my mind turns to 18 years ago today, and this is the correlation in terms of people and place over the expanse of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EOn 5 May\u2014today\u201418 years ago, in 2004, there was a gathering of some 20,000-plus people who arrived on the Parliament grounds in protest to the Foreshore and Seabed Act. That was the origin and the beginnings, the seedling stage, of the M\u0101ori Party, when Dame Tariana Turia crossed the floor, left the Labour Party, came to the other side, and formed the M\u0101ori Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWhat does this have to do with this bill? Ultimately, it came down to the interests that M\u0101ori have, not only customary interests but the interests. In the Fisheries Amendment Bill, at my cursory glance and my eye coming over this, talks about the allocation of total allowable catch between M\u0101ori customary fishers, recreational fishers, and commercial fishers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo in the one minute and 20 seconds that I have left in terms of canvassing this bill, that will be left to the scrutiny of the members of the select committee. But I pick up a note, again, from my M\u0101ori development lens, in my spokesperson role that I have, and it is that I invite the select committee, in the same way that we did in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, to be cognisant of the 50 percent quota management that\u2019s vested in the interests of M\u0101ori fisheries per se. The general policy statement in the explanatory note of this Fisheries Amendment Bill notes, \u201CRecreational fishing is a popular activity for both New Zealanders and tourists\u2014about 700,000 people fish each year and spend almost $1 billion [on that aspect of the fishing]. Tangata whenua have a central role in the sustainable use of New Zealand\u2019s fisheries resources, as \u2026 kaitiaki (guardians) and users of customary fisheries, and as recreational and commercial fishers.\u201D On that note\u2014and finishing\u2014\u201CCommercial fishing employs approximately 13,300 people and contributes $4.2 billion\u201D to the economy, and on that note, with the remaining three seconds, the National Party commends this bill through to select committee with reservations. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9a17368790147e2a3fc361cb265ea21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9a17368790147e2a3fc361cb265ea21\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E This is a great bill. It makes sense. We\u2019re looking forward to getting it to select committee. I don\u2019t see any need to delay it any further. I therefore commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009841c0161f452cade91945b430b460\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Seven seconds\u2014well done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0c5025986b4ac68914b7ec284088b5\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022153eaedfe3d74f02860fc44ca537de0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022153eaedfe3d74f02860fc44ca537de0e\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. In the words of the great James K Baxter: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe little ships \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EFrom the harbour sail \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBang in the teeth \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EOf a southerly gale \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAnd they carry home to you and me \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESnapper and groper and tarakihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EExcept, of course, they won\u2019t unless we do more to make our fisheries sustainable. It is an important industry. This, however, is an important bill that recognises, as my colleague across the House on the ACT benches did not, that, in fact, there is extensive evidence of routing of the system and the illegal disposal of catch. This bill will make it possible to have a more accurate taking of information and more accurate penalties that won\u2019t just be a big hammer on the occasional catch, but a constant series of graduated penalties, which will enable us to sort this system out. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002267df2d5685ad4310932b81b31b858acf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267df2d5685ad4310932b81b31b858acf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. That was a very short speech from the Labour members, who are supposed to be here supporting New Zealand primary industry and also supporting environmental awareness in this country. It\u2019s a strange day when we see the Labour members trying to rush through legislation without actually giving it a full discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, we had a very good speech from my colleague Todd Muller, and also from Tim van de Molen, which actually went through some of the really big issues that will arise from this legislation. As the National Party has said, we will be supporting this legislation in its first instance. We just want to make sure that it is done appropriately and in the right way and achieves the purposes that have been set out. That is the balance, I guess, that we need to see in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe all value our fisheries, and they are an important part of an island nation that has a huge economic zone. It\u2019s a very important part of our economy, and it\u2019s also a very big part of our culture and heritage. The maintenance of strong fisheries is something that I think is universal within this Parliament through all political parties, but we need to make sure also that any rules that are put in place are practical and realistic, and this Government has a history of not doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOur caution around this bill is to make sure that in the select committee process we actually do have rules that businesses that operate in the commercial fishing realm can actually live with. One of the most horrifying, you could say, points that Todd Muller\u2014well, it wasn\u2019t horrifying, but it raised the fact that there potentially would be a loss of fishing capability as a result of the impact of this legislation. That seems like a direct approach by the Government to reduce another primary industry, and that is something that we don\u2019t need to see happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe need a robust fishing industry. We need it strong. We need to make sure that it is capable of maintaining its catch in the future. But we don\u2019t need to shut it off just because of some ideological view of how much fishing there should be or how little fishing there should be. So I would be worried when I heard that in your speech, that that is what the regulatory impact statement had indicated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133b4bae71a7488f834fc5e8c1d6f78d\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Read it. There\u2019s more than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfb0ff518347413594e7a2517f0a9f3e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: More than that? So it could be even worse\u2014that\u2019s what the Labour members are saying. So we will need to work that through in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important that we don\u2019t lose our capability of a fishing sector, an industry that has had a history of some of the strongest companies in New Zealand and also had a very strong history for iwi. We\u2019ve got many in this room who have connections with iwi and fishing and who would value and want to maintain that sector for iwi going forward. So I think it\u2019s really important that we don\u2019t lose the capability we have there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnother issue that we need to be very careful around is privacy. The issue of putting cameras on boats sounds great and it is something that\u2019s been talked about in this House for about a decade, and the reality of it is that it didn\u2019t come in under this Government when they had promised to do so and work had already been started in the previous Government. There is the fear that the big hand of Government could take that role and use that information and that data to its own purposes rather than for the success of the sector, so I think there\u2019d be valid concerns that the sector would have. In select committee I think it\u2019s important that that\u2019s thrashed out and that we have a bit of comfort there for everybody going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWith the bycatches and things like that, it\u2019s very difficult to see how some of that could actually work out in reality. What\u2019s the use of that fish that has to be kept now, and Tim van de Molen raised the point around research vessels. So some of those issues need to be worked through as well to make sure that we have a fair policy in that area as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo, in essence, we support anything that\u2019s going to be for the best interests of the New Zealand fishing sector and New Zealand fisheries to make sure that we have a strong fishery going forward. This bill does have some good points in there that will lead to some modernisation, you could say, of the rules around the fishing sector. However, we\u2019re very much aware that that can also go the other way, and a Government can take it too far and it could be very detrimental to the sector. So we\u2019re trying to protect the sector as well as getting those goals that everybody in the House wants to see of having a strong fishery that\u2019s there for future generations. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00229200980f138c4b8bb7130ee584c32049\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229200980f138c4b8bb7130ee584c32049\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As a mad keen fisho, I\u2019d just like to stand and take a brief call. I absolutely love this bill. A shout-out to Harry Hudson, my tutor, who taught me everything I know about fishing. I know he\u2019s watching at home, as are many, many fishos out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThis bill is a really useful piece of legislation. It supports a holistic, integrated approach to managing oceans and fisheries. The fisheries management system needs to be strengthened to ensure commercial fishing is sustainable, productive, and inclusive. Let\u2019s face it: when we can take and count everything that is landed, including what is killed as it is landed, we will know a better story about our fishing catch. We can better manage, we can then also use that data to identify markets, and we can also make some decisions about who we choose to buy our fish from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThis is a really important piece of legislation\u2014could talk for hours on it; won\u2019t. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eeedae62270f45f5b70d3fc985c59004\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000383\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9ce896a4187405cbc15dc94115eabd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9ce896a4187405cbc15dc94115eabd4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill be considered by the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222a322d3714934d5495476999adca0c33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000385\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ec1c32512b541b199aad02174f2198e\u0022\u003EInstruction to the Primary Production Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00222ae15d5ec8ed4355b191d942abcf60b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ae15d5ec8ed4355b191d942abcf60b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister for Food Safety)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: I move, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 12 September 2022. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228f0f84653c848dba590ae1d526d33ea\u0022\u003EPae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226862d90a75e840f0abf2d5d4074527a8\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000391\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002239b9c50341744f2e9070d498bdef68e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239b9c50341744f2e9070d498bdef68e7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When we last considered this bill, we were up to call No. 10, which, of course, is the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002286bafc46aaa1468bb35cf5442ccd9238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286bafc46aaa1468bb35cf5442ccd9238\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to speak on the second reading of this bill, which I think provides a once-in-a-generation opportunity to transform the health sector. And I\u2019d like to start by thanking all of those who submitted on the bill, because a lot of their suggestions led to some really useful changes. I think a lot of those have already been canvassed in previous speeches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to focus on is strategic planning, which is a core part of the bill, because what the bill does is it establishes a whole suite of key strategic documents. Within those four strategies\u2014a New Zealand health strategy, a M\u0101ori, a Pacific, and a disability health strategy\u2014basically, what we have is a lot of submitters that then suggested that we added other strategies to that, focusing on children, the rainbow community, Asian people, refugees, rural communities, rare disorders, mental health and addictions, women, and medicines. I think one of the challenges the Pae Ora Legislation Committee had is thinking about how you could actually achieve overall consistency if you ended up with a whole lot of different strategies, which each pulled a particular issue off into its own separate strategy, and then how you would consider the strategic direction as a whole, because there was a real concern that you may end up with fragmentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what we also looked at is whether, in some of the existing suite of policy documents within that, you could include the health needs of those particular groups and, in particular, for example, the new Government policy statement (GPS) on health. What that does is it sets out the Government\u2019s overall priorities and objectives for the health sector over three years. In addition to M\u0101ori and Pacific and disabled people within that, which are already included in the strategies, it also states that the GPS must include the Government\u2019s priorities for improving health outcomes for women, rural communities, and other populations. So there are some of those aspects already touched on in the overall GPS. Then, also in locality planning, the requirement was that Health New Zealand had to consult with those within the localities, not only those in the community in terms of service users but also their service providers, and their input, too, could be included in terms of particularly thinking about strategic approaches to rural communities. We were also advised that there wouldn\u2019t be anything precluding other strategies being included in future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo we were happy that the strategic policy documents with the addition of a women\u2019s health strategy would cover the areas we need, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u002299d54923f7554c41a434869f5fd0d2d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299d54923f7554c41a434869f5fd0d2d5\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise for my first opportunity to take a call on the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill. And while I would commend, as the National Party spokesperson for women, the inclusion of a women\u2019s health strategy, and acknowledging the Minister for Women in the Chamber this afternoon, please, please, don\u2019t let this opportunity pass you by, because I would say, of the rest of the bill, what a missed opportunity. What has been touted as a generational reform, a once-in-20-years reform, this bill is the Government\u2019s so-called answer to the recommendations made in Heather Simpson\u2019s report released a couple of years ago, which sought to actually improve the delivery of healthcare across the country. Unfortunately, what we see in this bill will most certainly not achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EAll I can tell from this bill is that it is going to rip the guts out of community healthcare providers. It disestablishes district health boards; their services will instead be run by locality commissioners, locality coordinators, and up to 80 locality networks, which will add layers and layers and layers of bureaucracy between patients, providers, and the Minister. In the entirety of this document, a $500 million reform, there is not one target for a single improved outcome. I would have thought half a billion dollars on a sector-wide reform would demand some improved outcomes at an absolute minimum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ELabour seems to think that you can achieve better health outcomes by putting more power in the hands of bureaucrats. As a rural Cantabrian, let me tell you this is not the case. If it is passed as it is written, this bill will simply make the system less responsive to the health needs of Kiwis, especially those who live rurally, and that is where I\u2019d like to focus my comments this afternoon. Heather Simpson\u2019s report mentioned \u201Crural\u201D at least 30 times\u2014I think 34, to be exact. This bill mentions it once\u2014once. This is an extraordinary indictment of the Government\u2019s view on 750,000 New Zealanders, 15 percent of the population, who contribute 50 percent of our national GDP. In a stroke of irony, on the Primary Production Committee today, we have had the Office of Rural Communities in front of us. Their role is to pass a rural lens over legislation like this, which passes through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224496b35a9c2747aeaa7866e676cfd03e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s that going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d66483c785041a985cc1876a0692b2f\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Now, well, that\u2019s the point, Chris Bishop. How is it going? I asked them that. I said, \u201CWhat tangible outcomes, what results, what changes have you as an office been able to make on bills like Pae Ora, like three waters, like fresh water reform?\u201D Answer: \u201CWe don\u2019t measure them. We haven\u2019t really had much impactful change.\u201D, which says to me, once again, that a Government who thinks it can run everything from Wellington is a recipe for worse health outcomes in underserviced communities, not better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI would love to hear this Government face up in Leeston to the Friends of Ellesmere Hospital. This is, to be fair, a 95-year-old building that\u2019s been running in this community all that time, servicing the needs of aged care and those convalescing post-surgery. There are just 10 beds in it. It is the beating heart of this community. It was shut during the pandemic to try and centralise all services into Christchurch. Thirty minutes\u2019 drive away in Darfield, at the other end of my electorate\u2014talk to me about the trustees of the Darfield Hospital and all the time and effort they put in to service their local community; also shut. Now, here\u2019s the clincher: when I go and speak to the DHB about whether or not there are plans to continue the provision of these services in these rural communities post-pandemic, they all say\u2014they throw their hands in the air, they look at me and ask us, and they all say, \u201CWe don\u2019t know. We cease to exist from 30 July.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI would also recommend that the Government take it from the experts that appeared during the select committee process. There were a number of rural health groups that highlighted their concern, as well as those who are actually operating in the field in rural New Zealand. The Rural Health Alliance said that they were \u201Cvery concerned with the lack of focus on rural communities\u201D and that \u201Cit is well documented that rural communities have poorer health outcomes than urban communities.\u201D The Rural General Practice Network said that \u201Crural New Zealanders need to be added to the list of priority populations. Health inequities will remain and might well worsen if focus shifts elsewhere.\u201D Both these organisations that have spoken at the Pae Ora Legislation Committee on this bill want to see rural communities added as a priority group in the legislation. This priority group would therefore mean a targeted rural health strategy and specific rural health outcome measurements. The report\u2014the one written by Heather Simpson\u2014said that \u201Crural services should be specifically planned for, recognising the unique challenges of [those that live rurally]\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo, to put it simply, my challenge to the Government: it has one more opportunity\u2014when this bill gets to the committee of the whole House stage, it has one more opportunity\u2014to prioritise rural people, to enshrine their needs in the legislation so that there are targets, there are outcomes. Fifteen percent of this population\u2014750,000 New Zealanders\u2014should not be forgotten by this piece of legislation and by this Government. Please, my plea to the Government, do not forget these people. Take this opportunity to enshrine it in law, otherwise this is a massive\u2014massive\u2014missed opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00226349ccca9d2c449d9bbf69315931f4ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226349ccca9d2c449d9bbf69315931f4ac\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E E kore e taea e te whenu kotahi. Ki te raranga i te wh\u0101riki. Kia m\u014Dhio t\u0101tou ki a t\u0101tou. M\u0101 te mahi tahi o ng\u0101 whenu, m\u0101 te mahi tahi o ng\u0101 kairaranga, ka oti t\u0113nei wh\u0101riki. I te otinga me titiro t\u0101tou ki nga mea pai ka puta mai, \u0101 t\u014Dna w\u0101 me titiro hoki ki ng\u0101 raranga i makere n\u0101 te mea he kore an\u014D kei reira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E[The tapestry of understanding cannot be woven by one strand alone. Only by the working together of strands, and the working together of weavers, will such a tapestry be completed. When completed, we should look at the beauty of the work, and sometimes we also need to look at the dropped stitches as there may be errors there.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s right to begin my speech with a whakatauk\u012B o p\u014Dua K\u016B Tirikatene, an advocate for the health of M\u0101ori and wellbeing of our people, and a thoughtful leader, and a proud Cantabrian. The whakatauk\u012B is salient when we consider the change case for our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EStitches have been dropped over many years, which have resulted in poor outcomes for many people, most starkly M\u0101ori and Pacific communities. Improving the equity of health outcomes achieved in New Zealand requires first that we acknowledge the current inequities are not acceptable, and that we see those stitches that have been dropped and understand their message. The old health system was not set up to understand the needs of individuals, wh\u0101nau, and communities, and so the system could not design and deliver services to address those identified needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a lot I\u2019d like to say on this bill, but I want to acknowledge some of the comments of my colleague Dr Shane Reti which I was disappointed by, and I want to thank the members of the Pae Ora Legislation Committee, its advisors in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and its clerk, Anna Platten, and her team. Those comments that Dr Reti made about the disrespectful and deceitful start to the committee were a disappointment to me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc8bea8908114a1198331f1fd4fe145a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m on my feet; you have to sit down. No, you cannot say that another member is deceitful. All members are honourable, so you must withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992e7662fc174680a34468f435cbb4a1\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker. May I clarify?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8153f93c6c41219ac4491750202bdd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d1f7d991bba4571859aecd3aeacb763\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. What I intended to say was that that member said that there was a disrespectful and deceitful start to the committee that was the Pae Ora Legislation Committee. I wish to bring a perspective: that those specialised committees have an important role in generating the kind of debate which is consensus building in this House, and engaging on technical points of law. I thank the committee, the clerks, the submitters, for rising to the challenge of this new mechanism that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira he mihi t\u0113nei ki Te Whare e t\u016B nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E[Therefore, I acknowledge this House that stands here.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always a privilege to serve in this place with you all, and a delight when we\u2019re making a project like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002247235b92c1dc440a88334028ad7353b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247235b92c1dc440a88334028ad7353b9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the amendments recommended by the Pae Ora Legislation Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222ec601a647744e849672ff6e72c0079d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022444144bcd09643748cb8094b87e6b43f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000418\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294c343c1bcf1431fb6000f4003edf0c1\u0022\u003EProtected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022692a0593d7244aba90d3c9328486f29f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000421\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 12 April.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230fccaad3fe047c08f2e8cd523910b68\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229bd60ebf95e84270be711cc41624356f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bd60ebf95e84270be711cc41624356f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: The Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill interrupted debate on third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222581c4c84f9f4dae90c94f6d4cbb04d9\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002258f118a34059436280297b61e736765f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258f118a34059436280297b61e736765f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When the House last considered this bill, we had completed call No. 7 and we\u2019d come to call No. 8. I call Jo Luxton. [Members cheer]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002226f3dc5443d54c0c9e7062c16a67d9d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226f3dc5443d54c0c9e7062c16a67d9d8\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As you can see, I am extremely pleased to stand and take a call on this piece of legislation. I have been waiting for my turn to speak on this so many times already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is a fantastic piece of legislation. It replaces the current law, which is now 20 years old, does not work as well as it should, people don\u2019t know how to use the Act, and they don\u2019t feel safe using it. The biggest hurdles we hear about are with people reporting disclosures, because they don\u2019t know companies\u2019 policies for reporting it and they fear retaliation. I feel that this is extremely true when it comes to, perhaps, women in workplaces\u2014there\u2019s a lot of power play that can happen. Migrants are exploited and they\u2019re not confident that the report will go to somebody that will actually do something about it. These are real barriers\u2014real barriers\u2014to the ability of people to be able to report disclosures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI think that this piece of legislation is absolutely crucial to ensure that people feel safe, they know they can report disclosures, they understand the process, and they know that there will be no chance of retaliation. I absolutely commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fde08f1dc9654bcbab4cd9d76de7cdaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fde08f1dc9654bcbab4cd9d76de7cdaf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Chris Penk\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002219f60fce3bfb4f8a814d8fc1591f9b39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219f60fce3bfb4f8a814d8fc1591f9b39\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to\u2014I wasn\u2019t perhaps as keen as the member opposite, Jo Luxton, to get up and take my call ahead of time, but I can at least do so now that I have the opportunity, in the fading of the light of the House sitting week. The Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill, as the previous contributor has noted, is one that has almost been concluded, in terms of this reading, a number of times now that the House has sat, so it\u2019s a pleasure to be able to help bring it home, so to speak, even before we head home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe discussion in previous stages of the bill, in, obviously, its various readings\u2014and also, I recall, quite an interesting, I think, and helpful, if I may say, committee of the whole House stage. I do so with all due modesty, as I think I recall that I was one of those who was willing and able to make a few contributions. I do acknowledge that the Minister at the time was engaging seriously in that discussion, and so I think that having followed a parliamentary process where, of course, all the usual boxes are ticked, we did also, I think, do ourselves a service as a committee of the whole House, and now the House proper, of giving it some pretty thorough scrutiny. That\u2019s important, and it\u2019s in an area, of course, for all legislation, but particularly so where there\u2019s an opportunity for people to exercise rights and responsibilities in the face of possible wrongdoing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI note, of course, that the regime is intended to provide protection of whistleblowers, as, indeed, the name of the bill suggests in that part of the description in brackets, which is so helpful to have a general kind of understanding of it, and, of course, as a learned member made the point at a previous stage\u2014it may have been me\u2014it\u2019s not only the whistleblowers who are being protected, important as such protection for such people may be, but it is also, of course, the protection of the systems of which they are a part. It\u2019s the protection of the rule of law to some extent, but it\u2019s also a protection of members of the public who would otherwise suffer harm or potential harm at the hands of the individual or organisation on whom the whistle is being blown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo it is that the bill has a number of mechanisms to promote that kind of accountability to provide that further protection, and it does so by clarifying the threshold at which such whistleblowing can take place and, more importantly, the protections that are then unlocked or provided when the whistle is blown. We have some specific reference to serious risk to the health or safety of an individual, and I think it\u2019s pretty clear from that that Parliament intends that there\u2019s a threshold that is not trivial but that there is something serious\u2014to use that word again\u2014that is at play, such that we would want to say as a society that we\u2019re going to enable someone to blow the whistle and to cause, potentially, distress and harm to the reputation of others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOf course, we do that because we say that there\u2019s an overall benefit in having such a regime. We say that the interests of society at large, and the whistleblower in particular, in such cases outweigh the rights of those who might be accused of wrongdoing, and, of course, the reason that we need such laws is because it\u2019s not always the case that, when whistleblowing takes place, the wrongdoing is able, actually, to be proved. So other aspects of the legal system, whether it be contractual, perhaps in an employment context particularly; or it might be in relation to individual reputation so that defamation laws, potentially, are engaged; or privacy laws, of course\u2014all these complex issues can interact such that we have need for someone who, in good faith and not using whistleblowing as a means to cast aspersions unfairly or in bad faith, uses these provisions to highlight what they consider to be wrongdoing in the service of preventing serious risk to the health or safety of an individual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I do want to say, in my remaining time, that I think that the bill has had a good canvassing at its various stages. National has been clear that we do support it. We commend the Government for continuing this work. We acknowledge that some further work may be needed, and the Greens have made that point. We look forward to, potentially, continuing that further discussion, but, of course, after this bill has passed, as it will surely soon be in the next sitting week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc30dc0261ae4da596116c301e26f44a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc30dc0261ae4da596116c301e26f44a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 10 May 2022. Mauri ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220505e162ac52825944dea29fdf338c75bb02000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"