"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6e2974eaaf14e0b9e0a7cc905f22b6a\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 18 MAY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205547c15d7804ec0b2a17505202b525b\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 18 MAY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022909de4876d974b67a882f594f0f434f9\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe09a638b22e4e5c91a85f6124103f0d\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d40786e40d9c438287bc1eadce8562f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d40786e40d9c438287bc1eadce8562f2\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Assistant Speaker)\u003C/span\u003E: Le Atua Silisili ese e, matou te sulaina lau Afio mo fa\u2018amanuiaga ma tofi ua e fa\u2018au\u2018uina ai i matou. E lafoa\u2018i ni o matou lagona ma manatua ta\u2018ito\u2018atasi i le amana\u2018iaina o le Masiofo o Peretania. Matou te tatalo ina ia tonu ma fa\u2018amaoni fuafuaga ma fa\u2018ai\u2018uga uma i totonu o lenei Maota Fono. Ia talosia ta\u2018ita\u2018i o lenei M\u0101l\u014D ina ia maua le t\u014Df\u0101 mamao, le fa\u2018apalepale ma le agamal\u016B, au\u0101 le manuia ma le filem\u016B o Niu Sila. O le matou tatalo lea, e ala atu i le suafa pele o Iesu Keriso. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002280586805c6a54712ae96c87ad60c5eb6\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa215e4527f342cbb9888a02d281d2fa\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2d64ab74fdf43a2b273a3dcee837a34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2d64ab74fdf43a2b273a3dcee837a34\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No select committee reports have been presented. A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227ebabf4a5021406d85a1fbe1d79c20ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ebabf4a5021406d85a1fbe1d79c20ac\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of the Tourette\u2019s Association of New Zealand requesting that the House request the Ministry of Health recognise Tourette\u2019s syndrome as a disability for the purpose of ministry-funded support services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2a5de8c342e447aab8bb0b3d05c42d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2a5de8c342e447aab8bb0b3d05c42d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. A paper has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022008252d1095049d484615d30c3f098c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022008252d1095049d484615d30c3f098c6\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Student Loan Scheme, annual report 2020-21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227243940338f544fb8e0571ec4f677314\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227243940338f544fb8e0571ec4f677314\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022933623a54c994fb984f3f7e8746794d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022933623a54c994fb984f3f7e8746794d4\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Forests (Legal Harvests Assurance) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022308af5b44199485c8b992171da094810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022308af5b44199485c8b992171da094810\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bbc314b67c264b348d6412fbd9adc762\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a551fab82d654f90947531533a873329\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220fc193f7b4dd4673a0df7c0e4af6b765\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00228d77a29a28ac4d10b3695ea2ee837079\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d77a29a28ac4d10b3695ea2ee837079\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229c8d339a66134466a59376014c9dcfb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c8d339a66134466a59376014c9dcfb8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The International Monetary Fund, on Saturday, released its annual review for New Zealand, where they reiterated that New Zealand had found itself in a strong position as a result of the successful management of the pandemic, with strong health and economic policies supporting a quick recovery from lockdowns in 2021. They again highlighted that the economy had rebounded strongly in 2021 and that the expected border reopening will provide an additional economic boost to the tourism and education sectors. The IMF also noted that our public debt levels are expected to remain low compared with many of the countries we compare ourselves with, that our debt sustainability remains robust, and that there is substantial headroom to respond to further challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cea4ef43c204e1188af5e271d6f0ce2\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What did the report say about fiscal policy supporting the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276b71058fc0c47d7bc39e79600de2702\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The IMF noted that New Zealand had started withdrawing across-the-board fiscal support due to the strong position we find ourselves in and that the pace of that withdrawal was appropriate. It says that, given the highly uncertain global environment, fiscal policy should remain nimble as economic conditions and the pandemic evolves and provide for additional targeted support where needed. Fiscal policy should also focus on promoting long-term growth while addressing emerging structural issues. We are taking a balanced approach and making sure that our spending continues to be carefully prioritised and targeted at the areas and people that require it the most, including supporting low and middle income New Zealanders dealing with cost of living pressures, through increases to Working for Families, superannuation, benefit levels, student allowances, and the minimum wage, as well as the resumption of the winter energy payment. Of course, we\u2019ve also reduced fuel excise duty and road-user charges, and halved public transport fares. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff3ba1bc8614812afca798fdc272c0a\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e4a5b9f97143a28a3e4d9fb13cbd44\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The resilience of the jobs market is continuing to support the economy. The SEEK NZ Employment Report rose 2.6 percent last month compared to March to a record high and is up 50 percent for the year. The BNZ said that this mirrored recent surveys, showing that firms do intend to hire more people. BNZ said the easing of restrictions was reflected in hospitality and tourism, with a 30 percent jump in job ads. Some of the\u2014[ringing sound in Chamber] Some regions, such as Otago, which have a reliance on tourism, have exhibited the biggest gains. The strong jobs market shows that the Government\u2019s actions in response to COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic have proven to be the best economic approach, and the opening of the borders to foreign workers and tourists will accelerate this growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247135aade718494199f346737b5a4fe9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a rather unsubtle comment on the length of the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a7ae58d50af4beca269c207e76cebf5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002228aac6b9da684615be3255947d1c3d9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228aac6b9da684615be3255947d1c3d9c\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002253f8b0f422174f96aacc5d7b1ac0f027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f8b0f422174f96aacc5d7b1ac0f027\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly this Government\u2019s decision to partner with businesses to get ahead, transition to low-emission alternatives, reduce their reliance on volatile global energy markets, improve productivity, and futureproof our energy system to ensure that a cheaper, more secure energy supply becomes the norm. As part of our emissions reductions plan, we\u2019re investing $650 million over four years to increase the size of the funding available to the successful Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry (GIDI) programme, enabling us to expand support to small business, and increase the number and type of projects that receive money, including high-impact decarbonisation projects of national significance. The original $69 million GIDI fund has been a huge success, having helped fund 53 major industrial decarbonisation projects, all contracted for completion by April 2024, and over their lifetime are estimated to save 7.46 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, equivalent to taking 134,000 cars off the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226596f140ba2445ae83246d3de4d4e660\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis have any confidence in tomorrow\u2019s Budget spending announcements, when KiwiBuild\u2014the Government\u2019s flagship announcement in 2017\u2014has only delivered 1.3 percent of the 100,000 houses that were promised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cca01b5a49e49cba5c692d8391c0e07\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because if you look over the lifetime of this Government and the investment that we have made consecutively through each of our Budgets, they have been unapologetically focused on New Zealanders and reducing the impacts of cost of living right from back to 2017. We started the public housing build programme, for instance, in Budget 2018, and it\u2019s now delivered over 9,000 public houses. But we did more than that. In that first Budget, we extended free and low-cost doctors visits to children under 14\u2014now reaching 56,000 young people\u2014and extended eligibility for the community services card. We\u2019ve now, through the Warmer Kiwi Homes project\u2014which we announced in that first 2018 Budget\u2014seen almost 80,000 homes insulated and heating installed. I could speak to examples in Budget 2020 and Budget 2021 where we\u2019ve done the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f309aaabdb744fbda1725edcc1b5f94e\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis have any confidence in tomorrow\u2019s Budget spending announcements when this Government once promised to improve housing affordability, but instead delivered the fastest house price growth on record and a 360 percent increase in the State house wait-list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f295dd84d0284d5b84e7372d16961bfd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, here I would contrast the Government\u2019s investment in housing, which remains a critical focus for us, against the pledge of the Opposition to do nothing more than (a) sell public housing, as they did when they were in office; and (b) Resource Management Act reform, which this Government was the first to progress\u2014despite them having nine years, they did nothing. As I\u2019ve already said, 9,000 public homes have been built under this Government, more homes than any Government since the 1970s. We have record consents continuing to be delivered, demonstrating the work we\u2019ve done to ensure that we have that ongoing stimulus in our housing market. This sits alongside the work we\u2019ve done on transitional housing places, homelessness response, and our ongoing [Audio missing] continuing to get first-home buyers into the market. Finally, I contrast the work we have done to even the playing field for first-home buyers against the Opposition\u2019s plan, which is to put $1 billion back into the pockets of those who speculate in the housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022344344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225661b1f92846402cb0421e7ff6123dbe\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If a publicly owned home is sold, as the Prime Minister just accused the Opposition of doing, can people still live in it or does it magically disappear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220060e205face4c4bb115b7da98628e69\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I can tell you it doesn\u2019t do is house those on the lowest incomes who need income-related rents and access to housing which is more affordable. That is exactly what we saw with the sell-down under the last National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bf2c8a1f72d435882f2f0b6bea15158\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House the current market price of a New Zealand unit under the emissions trading scheme (ETS), and can she name one initiative in the emissions reduction plan announced this week that will reduce carbon emissions for less than that amount per tonne?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218850a9b863d4a5eb4536b1b14b7ddb4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The current price, if my memory serves, is around $76, and if we were to stick with the plan\u2014if you can call it that\u2014that seems to be proposed by both ACT and National, it is to allow the ETS and the carbon price to do all the heavy lifting for the emissions reductions that New Zealand needs to undertake. That would mean, for instance, if we wanted to see the same reduction that we\u2019re proposing in an increase in the uptake of low-emissions vehicles, you would have to see a considerable increase in that carbon price, and that would mean New Zealanders would, for instance, be paying at the pump. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964520a3c1114064841075b156ac2a15\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis have any confidence in tomorrow\u2019s Budget spending announcements, when one of her first big promises\u2014Auckland light rail\u2014was supposed to be finished two years ago, but still doesn\u2019t even have a business case, let alone a single piece of track? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3f7b2da43e47e18f0178a2e8b280ca\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because in the middle of an economic crisis, the likes of which we\u2019ve not seen in a hundred years, we have received two triple A credit ratings from the two leading agencies, GDP is up 5.6 percent, we have some of the lowest unemployment on record, and our economy is in a better position than it was pre-COVID. If the only other point of comparison is, for instance, how this Government has done compared to the Government post the last economic crisis from the global financial crisis, then, toe to toe, we have outperformed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a589d99496f4a2392f589e6e52132b9\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis have any confidence in tomorrow\u2019s Budget spending announcements, when, despite announcing $1.9 billion for mental health, the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission found that there has been no increase in access to specialist mental health services for the last five years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3736de56bb407e8de06deb573ed2ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I notice the member is wilful in ignoring some of the substantive points that were made by the commission, which acknowledged, of course, that the over a billion dollars\u2019 worth of mental health spending that was put in by this Government was focused on building primary mental health care, which previously did not exist in this country, and as a result we\u2019re seeing tens of thousands of appointments now available to New Zealanders that did not exist before. In addition, you\u2019ve seen pre-Budget announcements just this week of additional funding going into acute mental health, which is another area of need. But if we want to reduce demand in acute mental health, we must provide earlier interventions for more New Zealanders, which is exactly what this Government has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022433bf6c351d84d68a773470f49ff2551\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis have any confidence in this Government\u2019s spending announcements in education, when, despite spending $5 billion more per year, there\u2019s been zero improvement in maths and literacy, and only 60 percent of our children are attending school regularly? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627d3caf8ac3489396b86094faa61530\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Based on what statistic? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a8f64c40cc475881be63f06bff4d8e\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Making it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264cf219a4867493ead3d993ddf82bf87\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because that additional investment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bef55e09e634d9b9fdc5c6f57c187fd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I apologise to the Prime Minister. The Deputy Prime Minister knows that it is out of order to accuse a member of making something up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323d99b2ea13400badd8602acac2b70a\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a578f3f60b7a4f55a41d4ce289ba355a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as the member may or may not know, the considerable investment that we\u2019ve put in as a Government has been to overcome years of under-investment in our education system. That includes school property, of which we have put in $1.2 billion; and including, for instance, dealing with pay equity issues in the sector, to the tune of over $700 million; learning support, to the tune of $260 million; making it more affordable for our parents to access education for their kids by removing the requirement for donations; making it more accessible for our kids to go into post - secondary education, with first-years free; and a policy I\u2019m especially proud of because of the impact it has on families with low incomes: the healthy school lunch programme. All of these are investments we\u2019ve made into our education system which ultimately improve access and ensure that kids have access to the school services they deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0999b8c1c8b444299bb9efaf6a6f739\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the most recent literacy and numeracy statistics available were from the Programme for International Student Assessment survey that was taken shortly after Labour formed the Government, of 15-year-olds, who\u2019d received the vast majority of their schooling under the last National Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9490d3f90064c9d89d28916b5e6d17c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that, and I also note this is a pattern of behaviour from the Opposition. When we first came into office, they spent a considerable amount of time accusing us of not having improved child poverty, when, in fact, the statistics they were using were for their time in office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed10203ae7594363b94f76cf2abbf863\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that when this Government announces billions of dollars of more spending in tomorrow\u2019s Budget, New Zealanders now know that all that new spending does not mean better outcomes because we have a Labour Government that simply cannot get things done? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d860e82a98d847d0a7006698de54ddfa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b240f9ba509d4080b5fa77c5f716cdc4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224858334fa24d4e88af2e8a3c5d656551\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Order! That question is not in order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b43791f8698f4a3aac518d6ce7d13e19\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00223d4b0617d38a4bbc84ecb474e532a432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d4b0617d38a4bbc84ecb474e532a432\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made on expanding mental health and addiction services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e469ef3e8df44fb7bb632940a865ff80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e469ef3e8df44fb7bb632940a865ff80\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced $190 million of investments over four years to allow the expansion of Mana Ake into five new areas and to improve specialist mental health and addiction services for those New Zealanders who have the highest mental health and addiction needs; $100 million of this funding will go towards easing some of the immediate pressures on specialist services over time by increasing the capacity of these services to see more people and by trialling new models of support to better meet people\u2019s needs. Mana Ake is a school-based programme that gives children the skills and support to deal with issues that include grief, loss, parental separation, and bullying. In April 2021, the Prime Minister and I announced $12 million for the co-design of locally relevant Mana Ake services in Northland, Counties Manukau, Bay of Plenty, and Lakes and West Coast regions. The co-design has taken place, and we now know what services are practically required in those areas and how they might be delivered. The $90 million I announced yesterday will allow the service delivery of Mana Ake in those new areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d9c22f63f934cc9aa9ab438711e205f\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this funding needed for specialist mental health and addiction services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225918e91f254647c0b3b42cf776899c65\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Specialist mental health and addiction services have been under considerable pressure for a long time. This means there are often waiting times for people to access the help that they need. People with severe mental health and addiction issues, and their families, have been patient in the face of inaction by previous Governments. For many people with severe mental health and addiction needs, treatment is most appropriately provided outside a traditional hospital setting. That\u2019s why the funding I announced yesterday will include $27 million for community-based crisis services that will deliver a variety of intensive supports, such as residential and home-based crisis respite, community crisis teams, co-response teams, and peer-led services in the community and as part of care teams, and $18.7 million to enhance existing specialist child and adolescent mental health and addiction services so that around 1,300 young people can be supported by more clinical, peer-support, and cultural-support staff. This is a critical next step in rebuilding our mental health and addiction system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb50f6a4f8b43f4982ad6e17942225a\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How many children will now have access to the Mana Ake programme, and what kind of services will they now have access to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275bd99fcc1104a38a5eb064a8cac32e1\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: One hundred and ninety five thousand primary- and intermediate-aged children will benefit from the continuation and expansion of Mana Ake services. Mana Ake empowers children with resilience and support when and where they need it to confidently cope with whatever life throws at them. The mental wellbeing supports provided by this initiative will vary by area, reflecting the needs of each community in their local context. The Mana Ake programme has a range of supports, which include whole-of-classroom approaches to promote mental wellbeing and increased resilience across the whole school population, targeted initiatives delivered face to face for children experiencing mild to moderate levels of distress, and group-based supports and support for wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db5d8de7ab3f45cd9eaabdcacbf466fc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002241d17d9cbb824655b4998a8c3fede244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241d17d9cbb824655b4998a8c3fede244\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cthe Government looks to all sectors to pull their weight with the Emissions Reduction Plan\u201D; if so, does he believe agriculture will be pulling its weight over the first three emissions budget periods?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b60ab84c024275ac2a2ef74b524f28\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Hates farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbe599b4bd354dbb925bfc4906217b46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Which member\u2014was that Nicola Grigg who interjected then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdf0fd674dc4001b6c60c3709f956de\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cfd7ca4cd4d48f49661e73bf2a8f25d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. That\u2019s not helpful, especially given what happened yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00220888f79373e548d3ae8fe1539108d408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220888f79373e548d3ae8fe1539108d408\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Of course I do. Climate change is one of the biggest challenges of our time and it is critical that all sectors play a part in reducing emissions so we can avoid the worst effects of climate change. This is particularly true for New Zealand\u2019s farmers and growers, who are some of the most vulnerable in New Zealand to the effects of droughts, floods, and other direct effects of climate change. Another important reason why agriculture must look to reduce its emissions is market drivers offshore. Customers and consumers abroad are increasingly demanding products with low emissions and high sustainability. So New Zealand\u2019s continued ongoing economic strength built off our world-leading food and fibre sector is dependent on continued innovation and adaptation to a lower-emissions agricultural sector. Yes, agriculture must play a part in reducing emissions, and it is doing so through the emissions reduction plan announced on Monday, which will see the sector on track to meet emissions budget targets. By 2025, we will continue to incentivise change by bringing in the world\u2019s first emissions pricing system for agriculture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a41f03122f4d5d9cf1e6621900666e\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to groups like Greenpeace and scientists who say that reducing herd sizes and phasing out synthetic fertiliser are major tools to reduce our emissions and protect the environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223d0f2a5a49d4580b59c2ebd647f88aa\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: There are two parts to that. In terms of nitrous oxide, for example, the Government brought in a maximum level of 190 kilograms per hectare of synthetic nitrogen that could be applied. The issue of methane, biogenic methane, nitrous oxide, and carbon dioxide, they all play a different part in the system, they all have different life cycles, and the Government\u2019s working on all these particular areas. The issue of stock numbers and stocking rates: it is simply not sensible to have a set figure per hectare across the variants of soil types, of farming systems, and of individual capabilities of the farmers. So we think we\u2019re doing the right thing in working with the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f30099cc05144b98a1284daabab8cb55\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is agriculture the only sector to receive funding from the climate emergency relief fund without contributing to the fund through the emissions trading scheme (ETS) revenue, and, if so, what additional steps will be needed to ensure agriculture pulls its weight in reducing emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4936db397c3480f924d2556eaa58185\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The primary sectors have earned, this year, over $50 billion in export earnings; they don\u2019t do that by paying no commitment and no funding to the ETS. Everything they do, by way of fuel and energy, means they contribute. So they have contributed a large part already to the ETS. What we\u2019re doing here is front-loading some funding for more research and development, and to accelerate that knowledge into the hands of farmers, to get it out there, and to make sure that we will\u2014a system to reduce the emissions over time. Agriculture has a big part to play. It will ramp up as those tools get into the hands of farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994622bb0633400abbd4eaae349af3a1\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement in question time yesterday when he said he was a creating a \u201Ccentre for climate action\u201D, and when will the new centre for climate change action group ensure that Bovaer is approved for use in New Zealand, and, if so, when will that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251f2d3e72cc349e2808290efe7118337\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One of the three questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72312c806124002a1c1c28bdefdd31a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Bovaer is a Dutch technology that is fed to animals about 12 times a day, I am told. It doesn\u2019t suit with the New Zealand pastoral-based system. Also, there\u2019s an issue of definition of \u201CIs it a medicine or is it a fertiliser?\u201D We\u2019re working through that. We will make the adjustments to allow that technology to be trialled, but what happened previously when we used a technology like that, dicyandiamide was applied to the pasture, was then picked up as a residue offshore, and put all our exports at risk. We don\u2019t want to run the risk of that happening again, so we\u2019re being cautious in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022428443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09b320c245a4fb29d6fa079252f1f92\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he support stronger action on synthetic nitrogen fertiliser, which has increased by over 600 percent since 1990, including a lower per hectare cap to reduce nitrous oxide emissions and prevent overstocking caused by artificial inputs that push farming beyond environmental limits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226fde34241e14958a573c3baba866715\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Nitrogen is a critical part of plant growth and has played a big part in the success of the New Zealand agricultural sector. Previously, we\u2019ve used legumes and clovers to fixate the nitrogen from the atmosphere into the ground. I believe that\u2019s a good, sustainable way forward. We have used increasing levels of synthetic nitrogen. We have now put a cap on that and I think farmers are winding back their systems to be more sustainable into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226afa9cd78d1c45f989d6e4f51af9c4d4\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What message, if any, did he give to the dairy sector about their role in reducing emissions at the New Zealand Dairy Industry Awards in Christchurch earlier this week, and did this include a commitment to helping farms diversify sustainably?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feedaf1827bb4aa9aefeafe55af89127\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve already rolled out, from Government funding, to support some research\u2014a greater knowledge of regenerative farming systems. I pointed out to the reality that Nestl\u00E9 want to source 50 percent of all their products from regenerative farming systems. I\u2019m sure New Zealand will play a part in contributing to that supply chain in the future. Yes, they have the messages from the market, but they have systems that can\u2019t be shifted overnight. I\u2019m sure and am confident that they will move to a better space to address the increasing demands of the consumers offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b0de5b3014460ebfb5e1534e2e37f3\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that the Government\u2019s plan has strong support from the primary sector, \u201Cincluding Fonterra, ANZSCO, Ravensdown, Silverfern Farms, Ng\u0101i Tahu Holdings, and the Livestock Improvement Corporation. [That] this is a true partnership between Government, industry, and our rural communities\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570b16e37f824c619282ad81f2e14d42\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! Order! Rereading speeches purporting to be questions is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf854a28097429bb95401da9cafa155\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I can do it from memory, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232416171041048b98442a8d000604650\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6e55471619548f7b2f2235456949b42\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab6a245f5d044c6f953dcc27b607ba08\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf8af4c78114da8a29f9c6f5231be28\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9e52aecff4144afb8f5fc65dff03e7e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. No. The supplementary\u2019s been ruled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd20e0298c64acc860b3ca01cc274e8\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9eb3e490514e74857ef5ea2deaa8e4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s just about ruled out too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c1ce95616cc4042a3c7b52a47720955\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00224107e0d77f82404d8fdad588389b265c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224107e0d77f82404d8fdad588389b265c\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with Westpac economist Michael Gordon\u2019s view that \u201CMany households are already feeling the pinch on their finances, and that pressure will become more intense over the next few years\u201D; if so, will he commit to tax relief in tomorrow\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002280a2dc2fbbdc44b5a193335e068fe4bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280a2dc2fbbdc44b5a193335e068fe4bf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve said a number of times in this House, the Government is very aware of the impact that the global energy crisis, supply disruptions, and the ongoing pandemic are having on households, particularly on those that are most vulnerable to increases in food and petrol prices. It\u2019s the reason why we\u2019ve acted to support low and middle income New Zealanders through cuts to fuel prices, halving the cost of public transport, increases to income support including family tax credit changes, childcare assistance, student allowances, and main benefits, as well as lifting the minimum wage. In answer to the second part of the question, there is only one more sleep until the Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54d4812f5c045618127a07347b60ccc\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Aww!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1493f08ae854203a51f1c67ca6d245f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, perhaps two if we count Mr Bishop\u2019s nap!\u2014and I won\u2019t be revealing any details of it today. What I can say, though, is that I agree with what the IMF indicated, that it\u2019s not the time for major tax changes following a one-in-100-year economic shock. What it is the time for is a balanced approach that makes sure that our spending is carefully prioritised, with a focus on big, long-term issues such as heath and climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022891d451e837b4a18ae943613378ee0a5\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with BNZ economist Stephen Toplis, who said, \u201COur central forecast, currently, is that New Zealand\u2019s growth stalls completely in 2023. The danger is that the wheels well and truly fall off\u201D, and should New Zealanders be braced for more tough times ahead under Labour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cdfac72af6040a7a6fffffb1bb0f3c3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am certainly not going to go into the detail of the economic forecasts that are in tomorrow\u2019s Budget, but what I would refer the member to is the answer I gave to question No. 1 today, where the International Monetary Fund\u2014having done a thorough review independently of the New Zealand economy\u2014said that New Zealand was in a strong position as a result of the successful management of the pandemic, with strong health and economic policies supporting a quick recovery from lockdowns, that our debt sustainability remains robust, and that there is substantial headroom to respond to any other challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022471eac7b3c2f450b993e9cfc98e41e7b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with economist Cameron Bagrie, who wrote: \u201CYou cannot spend and print money as a way to economic prosperity and wealth creation; you need to have some substance\u201D, and does the Minister have any regrets about choosing this moment in the economic cycle to launch a record spend-up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fa34fa714d84affb205bfda75d86ac6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, I will never have a regret about properly funding our health system so that New Zealanders have the health services they need and deserve, wherever they live; I will never regret making sure that we reduce decades of inequities for M\u0101ori and Pacific health outcomes; and I will never regret coming to this House to make sure that the National Party never get their hands on the health system again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022729045b0e3af48e1bfaf139994543070\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Professor Francis Collins, who says of New Zealand\u2019s economic prospects: \u201Ceven if people have reasonable jobs, they are going to struggle, and they\u2019re going to struggle to see decent economic opportunities for their family\u201D, and does the Minister understand that New Zealanders will judge his Budget not by what it announces, but by what is actually delivered? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223560005a36aa47db81865672cabb9d00\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What has been delivered is annual average growth over 5 percent. Unemployment at 3.2 percent\u2014a record low. Wages growing at over 4 percent. On this side of the House, we will continue to strike a careful balance: keeping a lid on debt, making sure we invest in the here and now, and addressing long-term issues like health and climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220457b56a110b416193f15b74be759033\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he agree with Professor Collins, who said, \u201CWe\u2019re likely to see higher emigration in the next few years, and we\u2019re likely to do so because of this confluence of high house prices, high interest rates, higher cost of living\u201D, and can the Minister confirm that one of the major deliverables of tomorrow\u2019s Budget will be an acceleration in the New Zealand brain drain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225651f43f467446f9b068cb978089650e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that tomorrow\u2019s Budget will continue the record of this Government of getting a careful balance in investing in the things that make sure New Zealanders have decent hospitals; that their kids go to decent schools; that we actually build State houses, not sell them; and that we make sure that we support businesses, just like we did through COVID, to seize the opportunities of the future. I\u2019m looking forward to the Budget tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220551dcf4462a4bf3ab6e7f562b6cd359\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with American investor Warren Buffett, who noted at Berkshire Hathaway\u2019s AGM this year that the role of Government in the pandemic was to protect jobs and the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293606d03f8ad40bc9c9b87d68d5a4d7a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t always agree with Mr Buffett, but on this particular matter I certainly do and I am very proud of the fact that this Government stood alongside New Zealand businesses, households, and workers\u2014supported them through COVID-19. That is the same thing we will do now to make sure that we meet the challenges and take the opportunities of the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b442cd759e35467e9f13a6810ca03868\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Forestry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3e98322337145c4afc6ec729dac4804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3e98322337145c4afc6ec729dac4804\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Forestry: How is the Government using investment in forestry to help New Zealand meet its obligations to lower emissions and mitigate the impact of climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00224fb72f3f880048a4a55e3f2d9704b069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fb72f3f880048a4a55e3f2d9704b069\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E The emissions reduction plan sets out actions we can take now in the forestry sector to support the transition to a high-value, low-emissions economy and enhance biodiversity in the natural environment. A total of $710 million has been committed to the wider primary sector, from the Climate Emergency Response Fund to achieve these plans. Just over half of this\u2014almost $330 million\u2014supports forestry initiatives. In particular, we will establish new native forests at scale; maximise carbon storage by developing more reliable information about sequestration rates of different species, especially native trees; and replace coal and other fossil fuels with an increased supply of woody biomass, including biofuels. These actions are achievable and show that every sector can play its part to reduce emissions and protect our economic security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be787603cd914d9d9c06169f75e29d2e\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What are the challenges for native afforestation, as opposed to exotic forestry, and how has the Government responded? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470ffba8a62d449db44cea22daa59e11\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that establishing new native forest comes with multiple challenges. It currently costs more to grow and produce and purchase native trees and\u2014everything being equal because of, for example, introduced pests\u2014they have relatively low survival rates compared with some exotics. Commercial returns for native forests in the emissions trading scheme are currently lower due to incomplete look-up tables. The Government is exploring options to address these challenges along the full supply chain, to improve incentives for landowners and others to plant more native trees. We are investing $145 million from Budget 2022 in the forestry response in the emissions reduction plan to reduce the costs of native tree seedlings and increase the number available for planting in future years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39aba2cca1d457e8d41cfbad16309c9\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: How does the emissions reduction plan build on previous initiatives like the one billion tree programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022620390c8a64346d9a87db79be0186a36\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: We have spent the last four and a half years working to bend the curve on the trajectory of our carbon emissions, with programmes like the billion trees plan. Now is the time for forestry to play an even more prominent role in our future. Forestry has a strong economic and social history in New Zealand. It is one of our largest export earners, a significant employer of over 40,000 people in forestry and wood processing, and is central to our high-wage, high-skilled, and low-emissions economic transformation strategy. We set ourselves a goal of planting 1 billion trees by 2028. The annual planting season is just about to start, with an estimated 120 million seedlings expected to go in the ground during 2022. As at December 2021, an estimated 350 million trees have been planted, thanks to Government partnership and support through the billion trees programme. Forestry is a long-term game and, while the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second-best time is now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ffef3df64a94e2a9d15c5181d27a000\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00222aee6034f1da42008daef3da563722b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aee6034f1da42008daef3da563722b3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227450abc6f82b42d4b7ffacf3757fc63c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227450abc6f82b42d4b7ffacf3757fc63c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by our announcement of a $100 million investment to support specialist and acute mental health needs. As you\u2019ve heard from the Minister of Health today, this will fund community-based crisis services delivering intensive support, specialist child and adolescent mental health and addiction services, and more funding to develop our specialist workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c98309e9ea416d8d9026e3631a6516\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the statement by the Minister for COVID-19 Response that pre-departure testing for people entering New Zealand\u2014\u201Cits days are numbered\u201D, and, if yes, can she tell the House on what day people will be able to enter New Zealand without a pre-departure test; in other words, how many days do we have to count?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228431fef7bb8e497cbeef8f87a3d3962a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I do support the statement made by the Minister for COVID-19 Response. In fact, the member may recall that last Wednesday, when announcing the final phase of our reopening strategy, we talked about the return of those from non - visa waiver countries in July and at that point stipulated that we did not expect\u2014in fact, were committed to pre-departure testing being removed at that time in July. Whilst I can\u2019t give the member a specific date, work has been done as we speak to ensure that we have in place all of the preparations for the removal of pre-departure testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3102b24f6f44ad8e64485e2551964c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister also stand by the Minister for COVID-19\u2019s statement at the select committee this morning to the effect that pre-departure testing is making little difference to New Zealand\u2019s COVID response, and, if she does stand by that statement, why is she going to make people go through it for another two and a half months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a784efee1a24b45969cd6b0d11f746c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The first point that I would make is that New Zealand is not alone in the fact that there are still entry requirements from around the world. The world has not gone back to normal. Even the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have requirements for entry into the United States. Japan hasn\u2019t allowed tourists to return. There are a number of countries that still have entry requirements, some of which may be considered more stringent than New Zealand. So what the Minister would have been referring to is that probably the more effective and important ongoing policy we have is the screening regime we have once people arrive. But, at the same time, we do need to make sure we have in place infrastructure should we at any time in the future need to return to a period of using pre-departure testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f0fcf781184352ab106afccad3c7b8\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister reassure middle New Zealand that the Budget will help them with their household budget, even if they don\u2019t receive a benefit or tax credit but instead rely on something called \u201Cworking\u201D to earn more and pay their bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a26b0ab0904c74baad4e9e392b2fca\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would refer the member to the fact that 60 percent of families in New Zealand do receive, and have done for a number of years, the tax credit known as the family tax credit\u201460 percent of families receive that tax credit. And as a Government we have been focused on using tools like that to ensure that we\u2019re supporting New Zealanders from low and middle income families. And I would point the member to the fact that families, even on a combined income of, say, over $100,000 in certain circumstances, will be in receipt of the family tax credit. It reaches a number of households and has been an incredibly useful tool for us as we\u2019ve sought to increase the disposable income of low and middle income New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200470c5d91e343578f7f9c734c6a5ff9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister reassure young New Zealanders that this Budget will do something different from prior ones to reduce the income gap with Australia that has grown by $6,600 per year since she\u2019s been Prime Minister, or will this become known in history as the \u201CBrain Drain Budget\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ba8fb5b44641cc89ffa610e06be492\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would first of all point to our record. Since we have been in office, wage growth has outstripped the increases in inflation since the time that we took office, with the exception of 2022 when we were seeing the entire world, including Australia, go through an inflation spike during this period. So I would reflect on our record, and I would even reflect on the fact that even in this period of time, we\u2019re seeing wage increases above 4 percent. The second point I would make is that one of the very tools that is being pointed to when you analyse the difference in New Zealand\u2019s wage growth over a number of years, relative to Australia, is sector-based bargaining. It is one of the issues that many analysts point to as to a difference to New Zealand\u2019s wage rates and Australia, and I note the member is opposed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317632f5491444f7b2fd19f95d7ee68c\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her Government\u2019s policy the winter energy payment that assists over 1 million New Zealanders to heat their homes over the winter months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a38dd1735e6645ada074816666264eb3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and that payment was, obviously, introduced by a Labour Government and kicked in from 1 May, supporting low-income families but also superannuitants. Just this morning, I received correspondence from someone who pointed out that it enabled their family to use their heat pump more during the winter, particularly given they have a family member who suffers from frequent illness. We know it makes a difference. It\u2019s a shame the member opposite is so diminishing of the impact that it has on people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0648949ee8641f9aaefa9690db35ab0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will a worker on $70,000\u2014for example, a nurse in the middle of the income band\u2014be $2,300 better off, under her Government\u2019s Budget, as they would under ACT\u2019s alternative budget for real change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eddf79d96db74273adfb36ce14ff7bce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister can answer the first part of the question; she has no responsibility for the second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dccc8efc7492455bb4b55c6e27fcd436\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously I\u2019m not going to speak to the Budget, which the member only has to wait one more sleep in order to see the results of. But what I will point to is our record, where the member who asked the question believes in cutting the number of nurses that we have in the first place because he believes there\u2019s been too much growth in front-line public servants. Well, I would question whether or not he believes in dealing with pay parity or pay equity issues. But, in this Government, we have a proud record of progressively improving the incomes of, for instance, the likes of our nurses, which, on average, have seen a 20 percent increase for some of our nursing workforce. And if you can peer back an experienced nurse at a base level, for instance, who had received in 2017 an income of $66,000, they\u2019re now $16,000 better-off as a result of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a1b2f468b948b2b81cddfe0e5cb930\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is aware that tomorrow is Budget day; therefore, the ACT Party gets fewer questions than they do in a normal week. He\u2019s used all his questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea654e1000814d5e91f8d5cc36068e27\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Mr Speaker. So much steam! I seek leave to ask an additional supplementary question of the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ba777a9dae4e2890bfdcd78a1361a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? Yes, there is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253ee75556ecf49b7949f762068fc3310\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002210e317f8f1fe49d9a6c5c765b48c8dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e317f8f1fe49d9a6c5c765b48c8dcd\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Why did he announce yesterday an expansion of Mana Ake with \u201C$90 million set aside to start services in Northland, Counties Manukau, Bay of Plenty, Lakes and West Coast regions\u201D, when he had already announced in April 2021, \u201CThe expansion of Mana Ake will start in five new DHB areas: Northland, Counties Manukau, Bay of Plenty, Lakes and West Coast\u201D, and is he aware of any other recent Government mental health announcements that have already been announced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022046fe04af66c47099f55c95c4a92df36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022046fe04af66c47099f55c95c4a92df36\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The member has got it wrong\u2014again. In April 2021, I announced $12 million for DHBs and local communities to co-design Mana Ake services for their local areas. Mana Ake, introduced to Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura by this Government, has been successful, but rolling out this successful programme further is not a matter of just imposing the same approach to different communities. With the co-design process having now been largely completed, we now know what is needed to practically roll out relevant services. Yesterday, I was proud to announce, along with my colleague Dr Tracey McLellan, $90 million that will allow these relevant and tailored services to begin in the Northland, Counties Manukau, Bay of Plenty, Lakes, and West Coast regions. In response to the second part of the member\u2019s question, that has not happened. One difference is very clear between this Government and the last Government: we don\u2019t turn our back on mental health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216b64bee5aa149f79dca931947ff4e34\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why was $75 million announced to help deal with mental health and wellbeing issues in schools in November 2021, when the same $75 million for this initiative had already been announced in July 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b203eae1f834264930b3005e04e0b13\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not quite sure what the member is referring to, but we have a range of programmes in schools, including school-based health services that deal with a range of health issues for children in schools deciles 1 to 5. This is a Government that takes seriously the need to provide a full range of health services, including mental health services\u2014including mental health services for young people\u2014in a way that the previous Government simply turned its back on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c435d13252a4decad65e6846a84d707\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s answer to my primary question, where he said last year he announced $12 million to co-design Mana Ake, why in his PR put out on 15\u00A0April 2021, where he talks about the Government expanding Mana Ake and more children accessing it, is there no reference to the $12 million or co-design?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e014f423474b451a959aa468d018a3af\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: It was very clear when the announcement of $12 million was made\u2014$12 million was not going to provide the range of Mana Ake services to five regions in the same way that was comparable to what was available then in Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura. Sometimes it does require members in this House to take their brain cells and put two and two together. I\u2019m sorry that that member fails to do that but that actually is what was required, and yesterday I was very pleased to announce that we now have the funding to roll out Mana Ake services to provide support to children in primary and intermediate schools in the regions that were announced. That will make a huge difference to those regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b662ddc776c4b1ab7f9e5efec8ad1b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to ask the Minister just to show a little bit more restraint in the tone of his answers. I think he can probably tell from the stimulation it provided, at least to the vocal cords of some of his colleagues, that it incited disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d603cc1833ce4a05877dc66d67d02573\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when questioned this morning on Today FM about his announcement over a year ago to expand Mana Ake services, did he say, \u201CWe didn\u2019t announce the expansion; we announced the money.\u201D, when his PR from a year ago is titled \u201CGovernment expands Mana Ake\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4b6b40aa5d4de786e8f6b63c3a0aba\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The announcement yesterday was $90 million of funding to provide the services, the Mana Ake services, in five more regions so that we provide the help and support to young New Zealanders\u2014children at primary and intermediate schools, in five more regions\u2014who need that help, who are dealing with issues of grief, of parental separation, of loss, and who have not had that help ever before, including in the years immediately after the Christchurch earthquakes in the Canterbury region, and who are desperately needing that help. We are providing that help. This Government provides that help, because one thing is very clear: this Government does not turn its back on the need to improve our mental health services, unlike the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207dca34fe9924fda82faa1a342cae614\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister tell the House for the $12 million spent and the 13 months that it took to co-design, what is one difference that was changed from the established service that has been running for five years in Canterbury?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295ea9229ce0c4ef58b0581a78ae92686\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Quite a significant difference, and the reality is you do not introduce a service that is requiring the input of local service providers, local NGOs, local communities, some where their school populations are predominantly M\u0101ori or Pacific or different population groupings where there are different needs. We don\u2019t view the world on this side of the House as all white, like the members opposite clearly do. We are a diverse country with diverse communities in all the different regions of New Zealand, and when we provide very personalised services to people, they need to be relevant to those communities and their wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aceb17e34eb404ba829a4ba8150769b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just waiting to see if the member\u2019s finished. The member will put his mask on, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fe8364441964444aaabec48725a025e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7d1abc527274b3dab8310865eecff08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7d1abc527274b3dab8310865eecff08\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has the Government made about supporting the public transport sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022827c868c92ea4c43a70ecacf8e1ba859\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022827c868c92ea4c43a70ecacf8e1ba859\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Through the emissions reduction plan (ERP), public transport is identified as playing a key role in supporting the transition to net zero. As we look to the future, it is more important than ever to have effective, reliable, and accessible public transport services in place. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing $40 million over four years to help local government accelerate the decarbonisation of around about 2,500 public transport buses, helping providers to meet the upfront costs of zero-emission buses and associated infrastructure. We\u2019re also investing $47 million to ensure the reliability of public transport services around the country by covering a portion of revenue shortfall due to reduced patronage from COVID-19. These initiatives build on the Government\u2019s record investment into transport services and infrastructure over the past four years and will allow more people to move around our towns and regions in a way that\u2019s cost-effective and reduces emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e01ae59dcff4509b7d1d3ad2ebac880\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made about workforce support in the public transport sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220440737ad4f7474681cbc1ba018904c5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: To rapidly scale up bus networks and services across Aotearoa and meet the requirements of the ERP, the public transport sector will need to recruit and retain bus drivers to address existing bus driver shortages caused in part by the race to the bottom approach to wages under the current public transport operating model that we inherited. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing $60 million to help providers lift bus driver wages, invest in better rest facilities for drivers, and make timetable changes to allow for more manageable shifts across peak and off-peak times. By making bus driving a more viable and attractive career choice, we\u2019re enabling the public transport sector to scale up to meet our emissions reductions goals while also delivering more reliable public transport services for Kiwis and doing the right thing by our bus drivers, who have done such a great job for our country over the past two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251500976c3b4407299883dbc767542c1\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What other work has the Government undertaken to support the public transport sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa684ea65f34984a3d26c0c55a67edd\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve made record investments into public transport right around New Zealand, from major projects like Auckland light rail and Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving and the Eastern Busway to locally focused initiatives like supporting on-demand bus services in Timaru. We\u2019ve also halved public transport fares for three months and upgraded public transport infrastructure around the country, and we\u2019re supporting other active modes of transport like walking and cycling. On this side of the House, we know that, in 2022, Kiwis want real transport choices around the country. We\u2019re making up for years of inaction with our investment in public transport right around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dd53e006c844a328bb580d2eb3cc2a2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00220027ea290a1d4967a054c48c7ddcf9f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220027ea290a1d4967a054c48c7ddcf9f7\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he still believe that early construction on Auckland light rail will start in 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022aabf0d01c7dc48c599eeea936e4079ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aabf0d01c7dc48c599eeea936e4079ff\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I\u2019m pleased to note that last week marked a significant step in the Auckland light rail project with the release of a tender for the project inviting engineers, urban planners, designers, and industry teams to prepare to bid for the detailed planning and design work. Critically, the tender process incorporates the additional Waitemat\u0101 Harbour crossing programme to help industry plan better for the future. I note the feedback from Claire Edmondson of Infrastructure New Zealand, who said, \u201CTo have this going out to tender as two projects like this in one is great for New Zealand.\u201D This is a Government committed to investing in mass rapid transit to get our cities moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c543b937e14f5095ea40937feb405f\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Given his answer that early works will begin next year, how many metres of Auckland light rail will the Government construct before the 2023 election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc600c9eaea48a6870f9de38a342924\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Delivering a proper, functioning, linked-up mass rapid transit network in our largest city is one of our most important transport priorities. For 50 years, a proper mass rapid transit system for Auckland has been kicked down the road. This is a significant and complex project. We are getting on with the job of delivering it, that\u2019s what Aucklanders expect us to do. We can engage in political barbs across the House about this, but what 1.7 million Aucklanders expect us to do is to deliver a linked-up network. That\u2019s why we\u2019re building the Eastern Busway, that\u2019s why we\u2019re building the Northwestern Bus interim improvements, that\u2019s why we\u2019ve extended the Northern Busway, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re now investing in mass rapid transit to the Shore and across the Auckland isthmus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a5e4b94da74525b56a72fdab2c9111\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important that the planning for Auckland light rail and the additional Waitemat\u0101 Harbour crossing is integrated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e4c0c6ac204158aa9b065fd86ca70d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Because it is the Government\u2019s priority to finally develop a proper linked-up rapid transit network for Auckland that futureproofs our largest city for hundreds of thousands of new people who will live in it in the coming decades. That is what successive local and central government administrations have failed to do over the last 50 years, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re getting on with the job. I note that planning for that additional Waitemat\u0101 Harbour crossing has now been brought forward from the 2040s, which is where it was in the Auckland Transport Alignment Project that we inherited from the previous Government. We\u2019ll be consulting on the options later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a81f292b7d8430ab07646644b214b2c\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the Government\u2019s position in 2017 was to construct light rail to Mount Roskill by 2021, and is it the Government\u2019s current position that the Government would only deliver a final business case by 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f006ac356cfb494cb00f4f8f20397017\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in one of my previous answers, members on either side of this House can continue to try and engage in political attacks and lob either way across the Chamber, but what the people of Auckland expect us to do is to get on with the job. It\u2019s very well known that, in the previous term of Government, there was not agreement across the parties of Government to progress that project. As such, we have commenced it from the beginning of this term. In the space of 18 months, we\u2019ve engaged with Aucklanders, we\u2019ve developed an indicative business case, we\u2019ve made a political decision around the route and the mode for the project, we\u2019ve moved forward now to tendering for detailed design, and Auckland Airport has now announced a $300 million transport hub with provision for mass rapid transit. In that period of time, under the term of this Government, we\u2019re making excellent progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a218af6a777c411eb827aa4e785437d4\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister saying the only progress that will be delivered by the 2023 election will be zero metres of light rail and part of a business case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022398373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc9dcc22e7d4af9b80362edd31b60ef\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s persistent line of questioning betrays why it was that on that side of the House they never delivered a single mass rapid transit project in any of our major cities in any of their time in Government. These significant urban renewal projects do take time to deliver here in New Zealand, and in any city around the world. It is absolutely common sense that before significant construction on a multibillion-dollar project like this can begin, that there will need to be significant work put into the design, the planning, the consultation, and the consenting for any project. The people of Auckland understand that. That\u2019s why they support us taking forward this project, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to get on with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f57d4b38d3924cccb811d1f7cfba1837\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it unusual for a Government\u2019s commitment to a transport project and the commencement of the construction of that transport project to be significantly far apart?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241b5acc2c654c98b4f4e9baf88535f6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister of Transport, I have responsibility for overseeing a wide range of transport projects. I am aware of a number of projects which have taken longer than anticipated to deliver, including Transmission Gully\u2014which we are very pleased to open early this term after many, many delays, which have been well documented. We\u2019re also, as time moves on, actually opening up some of the roads of national significance, only three of which were delivered on that previous Government\u2019s watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c77d47a266e34f8781aa6c04f4cc2b06\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason why the Minister stood next to a big red zero\u2014which was purchased by the New Zealand Transport Agency, at a cost of $5,000 to the taxpayer\u2014because he wanted to tell New Zealanders how many metres of light rail this Government\u2019s actually delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9b4d4bcacb4a26a9e775ecd5f56438\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that question is no. The reason that I support the Road to Zero campaign that Waka Kotahi is moving forward with is because we have a road toll in deaths and serious injuries on the New Zealand transport system that is higher than virtually any country around the world. The number of deaths on New Zealand roads in the last five years of that previous Government\u2019s term increased by 50 percent. This Government is not prepared to put up with that, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re supporting a campaign right across the land transport system to save Kiwis\u2019 lives. The member opposite might like to use that as a political barb or he might like to tweet about it and get some of his little fans excited, but we\u2019re going to get on with the job of saving lives and building a transport system that is safe and accessible for all New Zealanders. [Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716c0cf12e0345c2a706636467f8754c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Question No. 11, Arena Williams. [Member interjects] Order! Mr Faafoi will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894988804f784a7bb6fc2e77eeef100a\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw, and I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224f635ac4d08424d8feab1f95ff6314d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Youth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2e2e4be0997434680da99a9b0bcad72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2e2e4be0997434680da99a9b0bcad72\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Youth: What recent announcements has she made about supporting youth in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00229828bd43373444a6a24ec3bdd1f58bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229828bd43373444a6a24ec3bdd1f58bc0\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for Youth):\u003C/span\u003E On Friday, I announced $15 million over four years as part of Budget 2022 to support young people through increased access to youth development services as part of this Government\u2019s commitment to make New Zealand the best place in the world to be a young person. This investment is expected to increase our reach up to an additional 7,160 young people annually and increase stability and certainty for youth development providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aca630728b641199a9545241ae965fe\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this significant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee6130d209e7482c9f2cecc2ac36c5b8\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: This funding represents a 40 percent boost to support services funded by the Ministry of Youth Development (MYD), and it is the most significant funding increase MYD-funded services have seen in 20 years, outside of COVID-19 response - specific funding. Youth development services play an important role in terms of supporting young people to develop work-ready skills and resilience, strengthen their connections with their communities, and they help many to find a sense of purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208fe8934cc99498a833472b90f4a08c5\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received from young people about youth development services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695d88fe10954e68b5d96abe5201385b\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve met many young people from some very difficult family situations who\u2019ve said that they found their first role model in their youth worker. Many have told me that they\u2019ve finally found a family. Many have talked about developing a sense of self-confidence and self-esteem and also strengthened connections with their marae or communities. Many have built support networks that have supported them through some really challenging times. I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is investing in our young people and their future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad4227ff21ff444fa0175c0d984a470b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002241ec7a23e9644acbb8a11a8e8f8efabf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241ec7a23e9644acbb8a11a8e8f8efabf\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201Cin terms of what I am delivering as Police Minister \u2026 our people feel safer\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb96641de441482b97d437ed3378d3f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb96641de441482b97d437ed3378d3f0\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because this Government has a strong track record of backing our police, as I outlined for the member yesterday. In addition to that, since we came to Government, we have also increased the police budget by more than 35 percent, after it had been, essentially, frozen for nine years; we\u2019ve graduated 3,145 recruits from the Royal New Zealand Police College after police numbers had fallen over a number of years; and we\u2019ve set aside funding in Budget 2022 to ensure that there is one police officer for every 480 New Zealanders, to ensure police numbers never fall again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d67d8ce5c0004f48bb28f926900fcc3a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she tell the House on 3 May, in response to questions on ram raids, \u201CI am confident the police are taking action by launching the new retail crime unit\u201D, when the police stated yesterday that the new retail crime unit does not specifically investigate ram raids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba427066b8742779fb7df4a8634cbac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! Order! Can the member do something which relates either to the question or the answer. One of the disadvantages of the question methods used by the leaders of the two parties that ask these questions is it gives them a broad opportunity to ask supplementaries, but I think it\u2019s important that the member ties his supplementary into the original question. I\u2019ll let the member have another go at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3039effc83a4e5eaa27f7c72b0a6e42\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, just seeking some guidance: you\u2019re right, the primary question is broad, and it relates to public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2e5c6b397746e388657557f2a396c8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no; it\u2019s actually relatively narrow. It\u2019s not a general policing question. Have another go. It\u2019s not hard for the member to relate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e5506b4eda4692af522ffe1018996c\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister tell the House on 3 May that she delivered a response to ram raids, with the formation of the new retail crime unit, when the police stated yesterday that the new retail crime unit does not specifically investigate ram raids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3598067de784686b0ab8626144ba3d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, the member just asked the same question again. The question is about people feeling safer or the \u201Cwhys\u201D, which the member could\u2019ve very easily picked something up out of what the Minister said. So the member\u2019s used one supplementary; he can another go if he wants to\u2014but he\u2019s used one already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a61047c24804a85a63eae5845da4938\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker. I do want to seek some guidance on this. The primary question\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5d072e94a99486cac930c1977edbc5b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! It\u2019s the right of members to have a point of order; generally, it\u2019s not the right to have a tutorial. But when people are asking me a question, I don\u2019t expect raucous backbenchers to interrupt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad2c2bd2259c4f8b9ec1f5a6587532a9\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06d65e478f94ebf902cfbc6b055deef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. I\u2019ve dealt with that; we\u2019ve got one point of order on the floor now from Mr Mitchell. I\u2019ll deal with that one first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039df50bf7244942aea46b17256e3884\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll concede to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d42dea8c3bf44a3992b36c420d3f944c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member\u2019s doing that, he\u2019s going to lose his opportunity to ask his one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ec935a6dc14897b88932eec5c79001\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: OK; I\u2019ll ask my one first, then. Mr Speaker, it\u2019s very clear in my primary question to the Minister that I\u2019m talking about delivery as police Minister. My supplementary question, quite simply, talks about delivery. It\u2019s very specific. It talks about how she made a statement in this House on 3 May, responding to questions around ram raids\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fb2893fd8704598b74af091aaea4ba8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Right. The member will resume his seat. It\u2019s very clear from the question that the member has qualified it by the second part of the quote. A further point of order, Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d6e36a654b4803a9718a0c06f46da5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, perhaps I\u2019ll try and be helpful. We had exactly the same primary question yesterday and we had a whole series of exchanges around ram raids, and it\u2019s exactly the same primary today, with exactly the same line of questioning. So I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279faa2eb6d5a4af0a8db8ed70387ab39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And the member, if he looks really carefully, he can have a look at the answer. The supplementary questions can relate to the primary question or to the answer. Supplementary question, Mark Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2d0b3785cd4b5daac7f1e5c5f4baac\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Can I start again, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296c2343afa754db19efe373d708865ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can, but you\u2019re on your second one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3eec43b3cd44999c74889d2a27f878\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What police unit is specifically responsible for ram raids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c7c205f0fb4138baa0914f640cbdb7\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The whole of police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e5c0d666964b74b6bf2db7f8ea7ad1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to let it go because I\u2019m so frustrated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d3170108a2d44eea596797d94caa7d3\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m quite prepared to address the issue that Mr Mitchell raised earlier. The police are responsive to all the demands that come their way, regardless of whether they\u2019re ram raids or burglaries or other crime. So it is an all-of-police response. In relation to the question that he asked about the delivery, in terms of the work that the police have currently under way, I want to point to two things. The first thing I want to point to is Operation Pryor, which has been operating since November in the Waikato and has made over 160 arrests around the issue of ram raids. I also want to point to the development and the launch of the national retail crime unit, which was also in November, which is assisting police in their development of a programme to speak to a very targeted issue, which is ram raids and how police can support small business to feel secure in their operation of their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b984aa34ffb84097bba72362506066c0\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did\u2014[Interruption] Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d8d85dbc034b338a18f8504e686a19\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s only had one supplementary so far\u2014one that counts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252806827d10e4a2bb21d3988fc836692\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister, on 3 May, say that the newly formed retail crime unit was responsible for ram raids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a168874a0d1745bcae5a27c62cbc7ee4\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The retail crime unit is responsible to support the police in the development, working alongside Retail New Zealand, to ensure that small businesses, who have found it very difficult over the last couple of years, are able to operate safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271595885b64947ddbdc5fdf4ebf45a04\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: On delivering for public safety, is the Minister confident that the training of the armed offenders squad (AOS) is adequate, and, if so, what is her response to the High Court finding, just yesterday, that the AOS officer who shot Iriheke Pere whilst handcuffed had received\u2014this is a quote\u2014no \u201Cone on one training \u2026 had not been inducted \u2026 had not had any mentoring \u2026 [and] There was no training plan in place for him\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442d6fb7812d45ad9f169b0f26bf1411\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no. The police Minister is not responsible for that judgment and, again, it\u2019s one which was not properly tied in. Although there was a more nimble attempt to tie it into the primary question, it was not a successful one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f180325ae240457daa6579bacc4edd47\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022005295d873c84331941a8a8f870df7b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cee76cfc8194b68a874f9290f69336f\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I am prepared to address the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d633934cad884328952c62ea6cd8b0c2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister might be prepared to address, it but I\u2019ve already ruled it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa16ebe833a48adbc43143d7717f896\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b2f96c613e4c88adb9595efeeece73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, I hope it doesn\u2019t relate to what I\u2019ve just ruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec233d1675634aefbae619719a384a36\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was just going to encourage the Government to seek leave for the Minister to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b2ffc404a94388b89b5cd017792d4b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member knows that that\u2019s disorderly. [Interruption] No, the member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860000a96f7b41b784de3e954dc77efd\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228a5853ef4dcf4a65985d940fae14198d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a5853ef4dcf4a65985d940fae14198d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d40f101c358449fbd80f1c616be425a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269027368686443adb015cf65d82fea0f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member\u2019s had his supplementaries. I mean if the member can\u2019t count to three, that\u2019s not brilliant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221087458107a54af893a04c6ffed292e9\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ae063cd11c84a799dc4014b137b6a14\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002226b7560dbe3140b7bd9c462d3eb3ef49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226b7560dbe3140b7bd9c462d3eb3ef49\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is in a cost of living crisis with middle Kiwis squeezed to bursting, so there are big stakes for tomorrow\u2019s Budget. You can see it on the faces of the backbench. They know\u2014they know. They\u2019re asking themselves: has Grant Robertson listened? Does he know how tough it is for New Zealanders out there? So I\u2019m going to make a prediction\u2014I\u2019m going to make a prediction. In tomorrow\u2019s Budget, there will be some big promises, but what will New Zealanders be looking for? They know that this Government gets an A for announcements but a D for delivery. And you can see it\u2014you can see it on every single member of the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got Grant Robertson there. Did you hear him in question time today? He said New Zealand has the best economic approach. Never mind that he\u2019s delivered record high inflation, more deficits, more debt, rising interest rates, and lagging wage growth. New Zealand is going backwards, but he expects them to \u201CBelieve me, this time. I promise it\u2019s going to get better.\u201D And you know what? Do you know what his answer is? His answer to our economic challenge is more spending. He can\u2019t manage the economy, but he\u2019s not worried because, when the cash runs out, he and his handmaiden David Parker will tax Kiwis more to pay for it. The \u201Csee no evil, hear no evil\u201D approach to economic management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you who else will be making big promises tomorrow, and that\u2019s Andrew Little. Now, never mind that we need to believe that they\u2019re doing a great job in health. Never mind that the first thing they did was get rid of the health targets to measure the performance of the health system. So they\u2019ve papered over those cracks. They\u2019ve slipped back across every measure. Never mind that this is the Minister put in charge of the big spend-up in mental health, the $1.9 billion, but he didn\u2019t manage to offer one single additional specialist health service. But don\u2019t worry, New Zealanders are expected to trust him with a massive restructure of the bureaucracy. The health workers may be striking, the hospitals may be crumbling, but don\u2019t worry. We\u2019re meant to believe that this is the time for Andrew Little to rearrange the back office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, if he wants some tips on transformational change, he needs to talk to Megan Woods, because she had the task of solving the housing crisis. Well, how\u2019s that going? A hundred thousand KiwiBuild houses? Not quite; 1,300 delivered. But don\u2019t worry. They\u2019ve hired more housing bureaucrats than they\u2019ve delivered KiwiBuild houses. Mind you, there has been some transformation. The State house waiting list has been transformed from 6,000 New Zealanders without a home to 26,000 New Zealanders without a place to live. Rents are up $150 a week. Housing\u2019s the most affordable it\u2019s been! It\u2019s been a transformation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThen let\u2019s take a look at immigration. Well, Kris Faafoi promised this week that he was going to sort out the skill gaps. He stood up and he said, \u201CWe\u2019ve got it all sorted. Here\u2019s our new plan.\u201D And what he wanted New Zealand to forget was that in the exact same location, in January, he promised 20,000 more critical workers would be gracing our shores. So I asked Erica Stanford, \u201CHow many did he deliver of that 20,000? Is he halfway there yet? Has he got to 6,000 yet?\u201D \u201CNo.\u201D, she said. \u201CHas he got to 600?\u201D \u201CNo.\u201D, she said. Actually he\u2019s delivered six. So at this rate, Kris Faafoi will be calling every ex-pat friend and family member and begging them to come home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, you\u2019ve got Michael Wood, who likes to claim it\u2019s an achievement that he keeps talking about light rail, without a single metre of it laid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got Chris Hipkins in education, who promised to revolutionise education. Well, how\u2019s that going? As far as I can see, the biggest revolution is the kids who are leaving school in droves; 20,000 more chronic truants under Labour. That\u2019s the revolution happening in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut I just want to spare a moment for credit where it\u2019s due: Poto Williams, because, actually, she has got a huge fan club. The Mongrel Mob, Black Power\u2014they love her. And in a country where lots of things are going backwards, she\u2019s got things going forwards fast: ram raiders hitting dairies in Auckland every night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut, not to make light, New Zealand is in a cost of living crisis. New Zealanders are facing extremely challenging times. It is a time for discipline and care and the Government should remember this: they won\u2019t be judged by the announcements they make tomorrow; they will be judged by what they deliver. The report card is already in: D for delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022093534a9142a4e8990ae581d78cbf9ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022093534a9142a4e8990ae581d78cbf9ea\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am very proud to be part of a Government that makes health quality and public health system a priority\u2014something we did not see for nine years under the previous Government. Tomorrow is going to be a very important day for our health system and for the public and publicly funded health services right across the country. Tomorrow is an important day. Tomorrow marks another foundation for the work that this Government is doing in rebuilding our health services that we started nearly five years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe inherited a system that was not funded for population growth, a system that in funding terms just went backwards, a system where the buildings were left to run down, a Government that put roughly a billion dollars into the system over nine years. This Government has put nearly $6 billion into buildings and into rebuilding our IT infrastructure across health in the nearly five years that we\u2019ve been in Government. We inherited buildings that were literally left to rot. We had buildings announced\u2014new buildings announced\u2014but with no funding, like the new Dunedin Hospital that we are now getting on with and doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe had nurses\u2019 pay going backwards. Nurses\u2019 pay went backwards under the last Government. The pay increases didn\u2019t even cover the rate of inflation. And we had mental health services totally and utterly ignored, turned their back on by that previous Government. The reality is: National in Government does not care about health. They don\u2019t care about public health services. And the important thing is this: all their talk about\u2014they demand tax cuts, which is what they did previously in Government, and then people wonder why things like our health services are left to run down. New Zealanders are more canny than that. They now see what the price is of a party that insists on cutting taxes for the wealthy and enriching them and running down our public services like our health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe other thing, of course, that we saw under the previous Government was hideously worsening equity in our health services. M\u0101ori life expectancy now is seven years less than the rest of the population\u2014M\u0101ori health services struggling to provide the services that their people need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s going to change. Good health services are vital to strong communities and strong wh\u0101nau and families. Already, this Government has increased core health funding by 25 percent\u2014that\u2019s before tomorrow. We\u2019ve increased Pharmac funding by the same amount, by every year we have been in office. Compare this to the three-year freeze under the previous Government. We\u2019ve committed nearly $6 billion in capital spending for buildings and IT across the health sector. We\u2019ve started rebuilding mental health services with the investment of $1.9 billion, and, man, what a difference that is now making: more than 900 people and new roles across the front-line health systems and GP clinics and community clinics, roles that were not there two years ago; roles that now thousands of people every month are turning up to to get the benefit of, because this is a Government that does not turn its back on the hardest problems, whether in mental health or any other part of the health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what National does. They don\u2019t care about public health services. They don\u2019t care about New Zealanders\u2019 health. They don\u2019t care about their mental health and wellbeing. What they did to ensure there was no accountability was they abolished the Mental Health Commission. In 2012, they abolished the Mental Health Commission. They did not want an independent monitor telling them what was going wrong and what was needed and what the improvements were. They just cut it. They stopped the voice. That\u2019s what National Governments do when they don\u2019t want to hear the bad news. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s changing. Yesterday, I was very proud to announce the new investments that this Government is making. We\u2019ve started with the front end of mental health, the big gap identified by the He Ara Oranga report, of those with mild to moderate mental health issues. And we\u2019ve started that work now, started the roll-out halfway through it. Now we get to work on the specialists in the acute end of mental health services\u2014not more beds in the mental health ward, which is what the National Party talks about, but what the real gap is in community services, community residential spaces. Everywhere I go, that\u2019s what the mental health specialists tell me we are desperately lacking. And now we\u2019ve got an investment plan behind it\u2014$100 million over four years to start to pick up and fill that gap. That\u2019s the stuff you do when you care about health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a party whose history is rooted in actually supporting public health services, back to the first Budgets of 1935 and 1938. That\u2019s what Labour Governments do. And this Government is committed to health services that actually provide the care that people need, committed to health equity. That\u2019s why we will have a Health New Zealand and a M\u0101ori Health Authority working hand in glove together; a waka hourua\u2014working together to deliver a public health service that this country needs and has so long deserved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4cf1e6c882d4f17aa2bf49ce0a45015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4cf1e6c882d4f17aa2bf49ce0a45015\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I had this crazy feeling of d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu during Andrew Little\u2019s speech then. It was like he was the Labour leader all over again back in 2016, where he spent almost all of his time talking about the National Party and all the things that National was allegedly doing wrong. The only difference is: it\u2019s not 2016; it\u2019s 2022, and he\u2019s been a Minister in this Government for 4\u00BD years. So it\u2019s not good enough to stand up in Parliament and talk about 1935 and the first Labour Government and the long history of health funding and the welfare State, and talk about the problems of the National Government five years ago. He\u2019s been a Minister in that Government for 4\u00BD years, and it\u2019s time the Government took some accountability for the massive increase in spending\u2014particularly in the health sector\u2014without any improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey points out $1.9 billion appropriated in Budget 2018 and\u2014as the Mental Health Commission found\u2014no material improvement in mental health services, and that\u2019s emblematic of the Government\u2019s approach, which is that they\u2019re really good at the talk, they\u2019re really good at the tax, and they\u2019re really good at the spend, and they are utterly, structurally incompetent at actually delivering better services for New Zealanders. So Election 2023 is only 18 months away, and they\u2019re not going to be judged on how many 1 p.m. press conferences have been held, they\u2019re not going to be judged on how much social media monitoring the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has done, they\u2019re not going to be judged on how many versions of the traffic light framework that the Government can come up with. Election 2023 is going to be judged on traditional economic metrics. Is the economy going forwards and are Kiwis getting ahead or are they going backwards? Has the Government delivered on its promises and their commitments in housing, in child poverty, in transport, in light rail, and in all of their big commitments from elections 2017 and 2020? And are they good stewards of taxpayers\u2019 money? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBecause what has happened in the last five years is we have seen an increase of 68 percent in Government spending, and I put it to the House, and I put it to New Zealanders we have not seen a 68 percent increase in results and effectiveness. We\u2019ve not seen a 68 percent reduction in congestion. We\u2019ve not seen a 68 percent increase in cancer services. We\u2019ve not seen a 68 percent increase in midwives around the community. We haven\u2019t seen a 68 percent increase in hip operations. No, no, no. We have seen waste driven throughout the Public Service to the point where the New Zealand Transport Agency has a ten-fold increase in communications staff earning over $100,000. Corrections got a 400-person increase in Corrections staff in the back office, even though prisoner numbers are falling. So, Mr Speaker, I put it to you there\u2019s been a big increase in spending but not the appropriate increase in effectiveness of results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnd there is a squeezed middle out there, and there is a cost of living crisis, and what they\u2019re looking for in the Budget tomorrow is not the biggest increase in Government spending in New Zealand history, which is what will be delivered, a $6 billion new operating allowance, the single biggest increase in Government spending in New Zealand history. They\u2019re not looking for that; they\u2019re actually just looking for some relief from the endless pressure that they face out there in this economy with inflation at 7 percent and wages only rising at 3 percent per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what else they\u2019re looking for\u2014particularly young Kiwis. They\u2019re looking for a bit of hope, because they stare at a housing market where rents are up 150 bucks a week and it costs 200,000 bucks to get a deposit to buy an average house in New Zealand. They look at a State house waiting list that has quintupled in the last four years, and they look at the shameful fact that 4,800 Kiwi kids tomorrow will wake up in a motel room. Nearly 5,000 Kiwi kids will grow up in a motel room, and the Minister says, \u201CBetter than a car.\u201D Well, that\u2019s the standard. One of the housing Ministers\u2014there\u2019s five of them\u2014stands and says, \u201COh, it\u2019s better than a car.\u201D This is the pathetic standard that we have come to in this Government. This is the pathetic, shameful standard that this Government\u2019s come to\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s better than a car.\u201D This is the level of ambition; this is the poverty of ambition of the Government that it\u2019s better that kids grow up in motels than cars. This is the level of the poverty of ambition. We started with 100,000 KiwiBuild homes. Five years later, the Government\u2019s been reduced to, \u201CAt least they\u2019re not in cars.\u201D How pathetic. How shameful. And in 18 months\u2019 time, Kiwis get the chance to throw out this useless lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002284df7a93f73a4654a5896257678389b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284df7a93f73a4654a5896257678389b2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I woke up this morning to hear that member\u2014Chris Bishop\u2014on the radio, talking about Hutt Hospital. But what he didn\u2019t do, unlike my colleagues, was commit to rebuild and reopen the Hutt Hospital. Will he do that? That\u2019s the question I ask of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour to stand up here as Minister of Agriculture, as someone that\u2019s been brought up on the farm and lived farming most of my life. Sometimes you get things wrong\u2014actually, when I go home, often I think it\u2019s all the time. But, look, I marched in the 1980s against the removal of subsidies from farmers. I was wrong. We move on to the 1990s. Many farmers opposed the formation of Fonterra. They were wrong. We move into the 2000s. Farmers marched on Parliament against the carbon tax. They were wrong. Some still oppose the announcement of the carbon reduction plan yesterday, and they are wrong. We\u2019ve got it right, finally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhat happened yesterday was a commitment by our Governments, by this Parliament\u2014we hope, eventually\u2014to an emissions reduction plan that will meet our targets to meet our international obligations and be part of an international emissions reduction programme. Because if we don\u2019t\u2014and the farmers were sometimes the most sceptical, because they live with changing climate every day, so they said, \u201CThe climate changes. We can\u2019t have climate change. That\u2019s a ridiculous proposition.\u201D They\u2019ve seen for themselves the acute events that they face almost on a monthly basis now, and they realise that they have to be part of the reductions programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis Government has committed $710 million from the Climate Emergency Response Fund to help agriculture; to help land users; to plant a few more trees\u2014native trees; to make some biofuels out of trees, if possible; to work on how we can reduce carbon from trees but, more importantly, how we can put some money into research and development, in a centre for climate action, to reduce agricultural emissions so that we can be the best farmers in the world and the best farmers for the world. We will set up the centre of excellence, the centre of research and development, in conjunction with the industry, and many of the major corporates across agribusiness are going to help fund that and be part of that partnership. Let\u2019s get that technology out the door as quickly as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe await the report from He Waka Eke Noa. This is an industry partnership group who will make recommendations to the Climate Commission on how we can price our agricultural emissions. We will be the first country in the world to do that, just as we were the first country to ship refrigerated meat across the world, just as we have been the first country to do many things across our economy\u2014leading things that have proven to be right and successful. We want to be the best farmers for the world. We want to produce sustainable, quality food and fibre products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere is some concern about livestock protein. We rely on livestock protein for our economic wealth creation. If those concerns can\u2019t be addressed, if we can\u2019t prove to be efficient producers\u2014as we have been, but become more efficient into the future\u2014we may be shut out of some of the valuable markets that we see across the globe. Some of the things that are happening out there that we have to take on board are things like Tesco, Sainsbury\u2019s, and Waitrose all committing to carbon reductions, making sure that their suppliers are committed to net zero over time. Nestl\u00E9, a company that takes a lot of produce from Fonterra, our single biggest company, is committed to halving its greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 by having half of its produce come from regenerative farming systems. We have to make sure that we\u2019re not shut out of those markets. Our EU-UK trade agreements have all had requirements around emissions reduction, sharing technology, sharing services around environmental management, high standards of animal welfare, better commitment to biodiversity protection, and, as I say, a low carbon footprint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOur agricultural sector has an exciting future. We\u2019ve laid the groundwork for that. We\u2019re committed to a system to reduce our emissions from agriculture and be the best farmers in the world and the best country for the world. I\u2019m proud to be the Minister of Agriculture. I\u2019m proud to be part of this, and I look forward to He Waka Eke Noa and the partnership that we will develop to price emissions, to reduce our emissions, and to ensure that we do the best for the planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u002274d85a1e4fcd4852b2325520bdf61015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274d85a1e4fcd4852b2325520bdf61015\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, as we keep being taunted, one more sleep. I have to say, we Cantabrians are expecting big things tomorrow after five years of neglect from this Government. Since 2017, the powerhouse of New Zealand\u2019s economy has been overlooked and ignored repeatedly\u2014time and time and time again. Well, we say, enough is enough. We want to see some real, tangible investment into our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOne of the first tasks that this Labour Government did in 2017\u2014does anyone remember when Phil Twyford was the Minister of Transport? One of his first jobs was to shave $5 billion off the roading budget. That, unfortunately, included the four-laning of the highway from Rolleston in my patch down to Ashburton\u2014that included three bridges. It was a $2 billion job that would have poured thousands of jobs into our local economy. The first thing he did was run the red pen through it and it just kept going. Poor old Matt Doocey and the good folks of Woodend are patiently waiting for their bypass that was never going to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EBut this Government will spend $50 million on planning a cycle bridge over the Auckland harbour, but it will not put $30 million into the Ashburton river bridge, the main thoroughfare of the South Island. The appalling response that that Minister, who just spoke, was partly responsible for\u2014for the flood-hit farmers in May last year\u2014was absolutely woeful. This Government should not forget: when Grant Robertson writes those cheques, he is writing them on the back of our agricultural industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ETourism businesses\u2014yet another sector to be overlooked in our region. They have been wiped out by the border closures, but the $200 million tourism recovery fund\u2014we did not qualify for it. Kaik\u014Dura, Mackenzie District, lakes district, Fiordland, South Westland; they have been pitted against our Canterbury operators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThen there is the $3 billion Provincial Growth Fund (PGF). Greater Christchurch, a place that has been plagued by earthquakes for 10 years, was not deemed suitable. We were not deemed to be in support of any PGF funding. I would have thought, of any region, it would be ours. It\u2019s taken a decade to recover; we should have qualified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EDo not even get me started on immigration. The lack of care or attention from that Minister has also been disgraceful. The Canterbury harvest has reduced; it has rotted because of this Government\u2019s tin ear and refusal to listen to the pleas from industry that we need people through our borders and we needed them last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWhat about the health sector? In my own patch, we have two hospitals that have been closed. The Ellesmere Hospital and the Darfield Hospital have been closed because the Canterbury District Health Board simply does not have enough staff to keep them up and running\u2014an absolute disgrace; it has ripped the guts out of those local communities and Leeston and Darfield.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EYou know what? People talk a lot about the red wave, the so-called red wave that hit Canterbury in the last election. But I have lost count of the number of inquiries, the number of visits from people, from constituents, members of the public that have come pouring into my office asking for help. They have MPs, they are from Rangitata, they are from Christchurch Central, they are from Wigram, they are from Banks Peninsula. They\u2019re coming into my office saying their MP is missing in action\u2014or even worse, will not take their calls and will not respond to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EYou know what? It is time. We are so tired of being overlooked. It is time for this Government to step up to the plate and start delivering for Canterbury because we are not going to stop demanding until we have run out of breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ETomorrow, the Minister of Finance is going to deliver his fifth Budget. He had the audacity last year to criticise Ruth Richardson in the so-called \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. Well, this man is about to have the \u201Cmother of all spend-ups\u201D. We in Canterbury, we in the South Island, want to see some results. We want to see some tangible investment into our people, into our region, because never ever forget: it is our people that are doing the work, that are writing the cheques that this Government so casually spends. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002206b7620aa5ec49e4899d6a7dfea7c820\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206b7620aa5ec49e4899d6a7dfea7c820\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m going to concentrate my speech on delivery but, first off, I just want to talk about the delivery of a certain member across the other side of the House in his question time today, which, you know, I like Mr Mitchell, he\u2019s a very personable man. You know, he\u2019s got great personality. It\u2019s unfortunate that he can\u2019t add up to three. And I just want to help him because, you know, a couple of Sundays ago, I delivered a pre-Budget announcement that was $562 million\u2014that\u2019s a little bit more than three; it\u2019s quite a lot to count up, Mr Mitchell, but I can help you out with this. That was a record investment in police. We have delivered 35 percent more funding in our time in Government than those guys. We\u2019ve delivered 16 percent more cops on our side than those guys did. And all of that with us adding funding, to make sure we\u2019ve got $94 million not just to deal with gangs but to supress and enforce, and also to deal with those young people that we can divert out of the gang culture in the first place. We are delivering for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI want to just say that is a stark contrast to the National Party when they were in Government. Let\u2019s just have a look at their record on investment in police, and what that meant. June 2010, they had 8,768 cops. By the following year, they had lost\u2014they had lost\u201470 cops. Oh my gosh! The following year\u2014the following year\u2014they had 9,000 police, and then June 2013, they\u2019ve got 8,711. And\u2014get this\u2014in August of 2016, the then Minister of Police, Judith Collins, said, of her 8,898 police, \u201CWe need more cops.\u201D Do you know what she did? The following year, she lost another 60 police out of the police force. Now, those numbers don\u2019t lie. You cannot do more with less. We have invested in this police\u2014not only to make sure we increase their numbers. We keep them safer. We\u2019ve invested in a gun register to keep our communities safer. We\u2019ve invested in programmes that help our young people stay out of criminal activity\u2014unlike those people who, with their tax cuts, will go back to the way they\u2019ve always been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bb374f3e0ac4bc3a1d22afe523103d7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: More ram raids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220346ce9b9f5b4e3a84e95b5c2949b954\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014funding cuts for the police. Now, Mr Mitchell says \u201Cram raids\u201D. Now, I have got one question for him that nobody has asked him: what would National do? What would National\u2014[Interruption] Just a moment, my friends. Let\u2019s listen to it: absolute silence, that\u2019s right. It\u2019s intense, isn\u2019t it, Mr Mitchell? It\u2019s intense because National would do nothing, because their record shows that they are hopeless\u2014hopeless. They freeze budgets and they cut police numbers. They are absolutely hopeless. Next week, alongside police and the work that has been done with the national crime unit and Retail NZ, we will announce our delivery to the businesses of New Zealand about how we support them about ram raids. And what will National do? They will do nothing. They will sit on their hands and they will criticise this Government, when this Government is all about the delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228234cc2418164982a69aa208efbff7ff\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Consequences. That\u2019s what we\u2019ll do: consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802513d7bdc94b5fb7fb469d94d6dbd7\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Now here he is, he\u2019s barking over there\u2014a personable man; he\u2019s really nice but he has the odd bark\u2014but will he commit to the one thing that will give me some confidence that he will be effective in police, the one thing that Chris Cahill has challenged him to do? Will he commit to it\u2014commit to the population ratio? Will you commit to that, Mr Mitchell? Will you commit to that, Mr Bayly? Because it means funding and, if we look at past performance of the National Party and the National Government, there will be no funding. No, no. The National Party will not support the ratio. [Interruption] Oh, he\u2019s saying yes. Well, he\u2019d better ask his boss, because his boss is delivering tax cuts, my friend, and tax cuts mean cuts to Public Service. It means you cannot deliver\u2014you cannot deliver. Not like the Labour Party. Do you know what? We\u2019re going to have more cops. They\u2019re going to be better trained, there\u2019s going to be better intel, better deployment, and I\u2019m grateful that I have been able to deliver a record\u2014get this\u2014$562 million and that member cannot even count up to three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002267ac113f770f481eb374b0c2281fdf68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267ac113f770f481eb374b0c2281fdf68\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I ask those at home to imagine waking up in an energy-efficient, lovely, warm, affordable home. Imagine everyone in our beautiful country has access to such a secure place to live. Imagine leaving home and making one\u2019s way along a wide path lined with native plants, native trees, we can hear birdsong, we can hear kids laughing as they make their way to school on their bikes or their scooters. Imagine reaching the intersection where the local farmers market is humming, and an electric tram or bus departs every few minutes, electricity in our country is 100 percent renewable, and no matter what people do\u2014whether they care for children or the elderly, maybe they\u2019re a marine scientist, maybe they\u2019re helping retrofit or build new environmentally sustainable buildings, maybe they\u2019re working in forestry, a teacher, a hospitality worker, a student\u2014no matter what their situation, they have a livable income, and everyone in Aotearoa does. Imagine our oceans teeming with life, native forests regenerating. Imagine our rivers clean enough to swim in again, and growing our food and our timber and our other materials in a way that protects and enhances our soil and our natural ecosystems, our waterways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe cost of living, the escalating climate crisis, the loss of biodiversity\u2014none of this is inevitable; it is the consequence of powerful vested interests and political choices made by successive Governments for decades. It has enabled a very small number of people to become exorbitantly wealthy, while exploiting people and our planet. We can change it. It\u2019s 2022. It\u2019s time to do things differently. The Green Party knows that we have the ability to come together and to build an equitable and sustainable future together, starting with honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EA Green Budget tomorrow would have shown leadership and it would start to support people in communities to build this future together. It would address inequality. Here\u2019s just a few ways that we could do that: a commitment to overhaul the welfare system before the end of the term, low-income families can\u2019t wait; an in-work tax credit; and a package to eliminate child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EA Green Budget would make housing affordable faster. We would expand the income-related rent subsidy to councils, we would build more sustainable homes, and we would ensure that K\u0101inga Ora was able to do this in partnership with iwi and hap\u016B and communities and local government. We need rent controls while supply is catching up. We need 100 percent universal design in our publicly built housing supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EA Green Budget would extend ACC to all birth injuries, including stand-alone mental injuries, injuries to the baby, and all disability and illness. In the interim, the Green Budget would extend and increase disability allowances. A Green Budget would have money for allied health workers. It would back nurses on pay equity and back-pay. We would ensure safe staffing and fair pay for care workers and early childhood education teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EA Green Budget would have hoki whenua mai, land-back fund. We have to start the process of decolonisation and a process of building an equitable future while realising the injustice of the past and making it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt would have investment in real evidence-based alternatives to prisons. We know that our overcrowded prisons are filled with members of our community who are suffering from brain injuries and serious mental illness. We know that rehabilitation and community-based solutions work elsewhere in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt would have a commitment to fill our annual refugee quota for the first time after the start of the pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt would reprioritise the huge sums of money earmarked for a few new expensive highways that are going to be entirely counter-productive, and put it into sustainable transport options for people around our towns and cities, between our towns and cities, surface light rail in Auckland and Wellington, regional rail, rebates on utilities, and e-bikes and cargo bikes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EA Green Budget would invest in helping nature, protecting our oceans, more funding for fisheries research, marine science, more funding to stop bycatch, and investment in Jobs for Nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt would do all of this\u2014incredible investment in our people, our nature, and our climate\u2014by taxing wealth properly. A wealth tax would mean super-rich paying their fair share and giving us revenue for better health funding, the public services that we need, and so many practical opportunities to get better outcomes for people and our planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002286f646a29915470db45f15de6fcb1a4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286f646a29915470db45f15de6fcb1a4b\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much for this opportunity to contribute to the general debate. We\u2019ve heard 15 minutes from the National Party of no solutions, and while I applaud the enthusiasm of some of the members, I cast my mind back to when I was in Opposition and how, despite all the enthusiasm in the world, a stark reality soon kicks in that you\u2019ve actually got to come up with solutions. So I encourage those on that side of the House who haven\u2019t been in Government to lean forward and speak to Mr Mitchell or others who have had the experience of actually having to do the hard work to meet the needs of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI am really proud that on this side of the House, we are getting the mahi done. Sadly, though, today, in the official death toll of those who have passed away, sadly, due to COVID-19, we have just passed 1,000. Now, that\u2019s a grim number, and I\u2019m sure the House will continue to express our condolences and our support for the families during this time. But I can only imagine how much higher that number would have been had we not invested like we have on this side of the House into the services that matter to our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAs an Associate Minister of Health, when I looked across the M\u0101ori health provider network in this country, I was blown away at the work that they did. But what was interesting was the work that they did; they did it literally on the smell of an oily rag. They were borrowing money or asking for money from the community simply to travel up the coast to deliver vaccines. That is a sign of under-investment in an important part of the health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EUnder this Government, I\u2019m proud to say that there has been record investment in M\u0101ori health providers up and down this country. The feedback from those providers and the communities that they serve has been hugely positive. I\u2019m ashamed to say that it\u2019s taken COVID for us to get there, but what I am proud to say is that as we build the health reform and the health sector that our people deserve, there is going to be more opportunity for services to be delivered in our communities to the people who need it the most, and the statistics are quite clear: our M\u0101ori population needs that support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWhen I look towards the remote places in our country\u2014a beautiful place like Te Tai R\u0101whiti and beautiful places on the west coast in Taranaki\u2014housing has become, clearly, one of the biggest challenges in those regions. As a housing Minister, I\u2019m really proud that the announcements we\u2019ve made recently with Ka Uruora and Te Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti will look towards providing over 400 homes in those places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENow, many of us travel around the country, and I can tell you that when you drive through small towns like Tikitiki or Ruat\u014Dria, it\u2019s very rare to see a new house. It\u2019s rare to see a new build, and I\u2019m excited that we\u2019ve enabled by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori solutions to be able to build new homes in places like Ruat\u014Dria, Tikitiki, and \u014Cpunake. In fact, one of the locals in \u014Cpunake said to me that the only new homes that go up in \u014Cpunake are multimillion-dollar holiday homes. Well, what our housing programme does with M\u0101ori iwi and hap\u016B is deliver housing to the people who need it the most and in places where it\u2019s needed the most, and I\u2019m really proud of those particular investments. That\u2019s because this Government invested $730 million in the M\u0101ori housing sector, which has been ignored for far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFor far too long, we\u2019ve relied on big developers to make sure that they can meet these needs, these local needs of community. I\u2019m proud that we\u2019re developing that particular sector with the M\u0101ori population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe talk about mental wellbeing. Mental wellbeing: many in this House will know Te Whare Tapa Wh\u0101. Sir Mason Durie provides the blueprint for wellbeing, not just for M\u0101ori but for everybody in this country. I\u2019m really proud that just the other day, I launched, alongside Mr Mark Kopua and Dr Diana Kopua, a programme, or a kaupapa, called Mahi a Atua. That builds on m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori for the spiritual wellbeing, the cultural wellbeing, and the mental wellbeing of M\u0101ori communities. This is something that has been ignored for far too long. Developing and using m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori as a way to heal M\u0101ori population and, indeed, the whole population, I think, is an important part of our future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EJust finally from me: very shortly, we will be celebrating the first Matariki weekend. It\u2019s absolutely awesome, and everywhere I\u2019ve been around the country over the past few months, communities are saying to me how excited they are to welcome people into their homes to celebrate Matariki. But, more importantly, they are super excited about learning about Matariki and what that means for us as a country, and I\u2019m proud today to stand alongside my colleagues here and I look forward to sharing that time with our people across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b045d700978e48e5ae897ae9457e5b51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b045d700978e48e5ae897ae9457e5b51\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Well, tomorrow is Budget day and the accountants could not be happier. But I must say, sadly, for Kiwis out there, there\u2019s not too much to be excited about. We\u2019re debating in the House today as out there in New Zealand, Kiwis are facing an economic crisis\u2014a cost of living crisis with economic challenges that are impacting the hardest-working Kiwis. I want my kids to grow up in a New Zealand with a stable economic future, but, right now, New Zealand is a place that is going in the completely opposite direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe Budget that Kiwis need tomorrow is one that deals with the cost of living crisis, prioritises the squeezed middle, and makes sure that those Kiwis get the support they need. When National left office, we left the books in a state whereby there were going to be surpluses for successive years, but under this Government, Minister Robertson is not going to get our books back into the black until 2025, and what this means for Kiwis\u2014it\u2019s an absolute fact\u2014is that they are going to be saddled with a huge burden of debt that is going to have to be paid back over generations and generations. I tell you what: that is not fair for my kids or my grandchildren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd it isn\u2019t just the balance sheets of the Government that we need to be concerned about. We need to also be thinking about the balance sheets of hard-working Kiwis out there, because, last week, it was announced that food prices had gone up nearly 8 percent year on year\u2014that\u2019s significant cost increases for Kiwis at home. Don\u2019t even mention the cost of fuel in Auckland and other places\u2014it is over $3 a litre. Lastly, the inflation element that we\u2019re seeing is going to mean that Kiwis are going backwards under this Government. We need more focus on fiscal discipline and making sure that every cent the Government spends is getting the outcome and is delivering results. We need to stop the massive inflationary pressure of spending when there are no outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EFamilies and communities across the country are finding it very hard to get ahead under this Government, and yet they are seeing wasteful spending in all areas and a Government that fails to deliver. ASB Bank predicted that New Zealand households will face an increase in costs of $150 a week. That is the reality of a cost of living crisis in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn local government, we saw, last week, the Government spending $34 million on the failed three waters reforms. It\u2019s trying to sell those failed reforms with an advertising spend but hasn\u2019t put one single metre of pipe in the ground to deal with the wastewater and stormwater infrastructure. And while that\u2019s great news for PR consultants who get to pay off their mortgage early, courtesy of Nanaia Mahuta, introducing reforms that are so poorly planned and spending money and wasting money around advertising brings no value to Kiwis. I expect that we\u2019re going to see even more of that in tomorrow\u2019s Budget\u2014more spin, no delivery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETo me, three waters represents the attitude of this Government. They have ignored the alternative models. They have ignored the feedback from organisations like Communities 4 Local Democracy, and they are not willing to listen to hard-working Kiwis in our councils and our communities. And today, we hear that councils are considering withdrawing from Local Government New Zealand and withdrawing their membership in parts of this country. That is an indictment on reforms that have failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI live in the most beautiful electorate in this country, the North Shore, and I\u2019m very humble to be the member of Parliament for that electorate. North Shore people work very hard, and I see unlimited potential for the people of the North Shore and the people of Auckland. But this Government has failed to deliver much-needed infrastructure in that part of the country. We are seeing businesses in our communities facing nightly ram raids, increasing crime, and that is impacting hard-working families across my electorate. Those families are going backwards under this Government. New Zealand and the North Shore are great places to live, but they can be better, and, unlike this Government, National has ambition for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EUnder National, we\u2019ll get this country back on track. We need to restore fiscal discipline that emphasises outcomes and doesn\u2019t just throw money at something. We need a Government that puts struggling Kiwis at the heart of the Budget, not inflationary spending and not failed reforms like three waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022714da8e0aade45b6b15f92031ca3c78a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022714da8e0aade45b6b15f92031ca3c78a\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. One of the things that I liked the most about my last job, monitoring child health, was you had the opportunity to sit back and look at the bigger picture. You could look at the trends underlying child health, you could look at the economic drivers that were driving some of those changes, and you could think about what you might do to achieve change. I think back in 2009, when the effects of the global financial crisis (GFC) were starting to be felt, it meant I had the time to sit down with colleagues and work out how we were going to monitor the impact of that economic downturn on child wellbeing. As a result, we produced the Children\u2019s Social Health Monitor to track those impacts. And what we saw was, basically, as we were expecting, unemployment rose, and because there were no real buffers or shock absorbers in the system, that tracked through immediately to changes in child poverty and the knock-on effects to families in terms of health and wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo, basically, when we started to see COVID coming through the country, and the Treasury back in April 2020 was starting to predict that we\u2019d be seeing large rises in unemployment, and some of their models were really quite concerning\u2014so in some of the scenarios, they were saying between 8 and 22 percent unemployment through to 2021\u2014and so, basically, the question was: what was our Government going to do in response? And, thankfully, our Government chose to take quite a different path to what we saw during the GFC, and, as a result, many of those things that we were predicting never came to pass, because what we did is we put in the wage subsidies, and what they did is they made sure that workers were connected through to their employers and they stayed in their jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWe had COVID support payments to help out businesses, we increased benefits, we doubled the winter energy payment, and we also looked at, potentially, people that would need to retrain, and so we had the free trades training and also looked at providing that support for employers so they\u2019d take apprentices on. So we saw some really good things that were happening as a result of those changes that we\u2019d made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we didn\u2019t notice so much and we\u2019re not thinking about is the legacies that this time will leave across the country, and, for me, thinking about what\u2019s happening down in Invercargill. Many of those projects that the Government invested in to bring forward jobs and to rebuild our infrastructure are going to have a lasting legacy. I was out in Bluff a couple of weeks back for the opening of six new kaum\u0101tua units out at Te Rau Aroha Marae, and the ability for kaum\u0101tua now to live adjoining the marae, and then to, basically, be able to mix with the kids in the k\u014Dhanga every morning\u2014some really, really positive changes as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EEvery week, as I drive to the airport, we\u2019ve got these big stopbanks, the Stead Street stopbanks, that protect our airport from inundation because it\u2019s pretty much at sea level. And, basically, what they\u2019ve done is, with some COVID response, shovel-ready funding, they\u2019ve put in place this massive sheet pile wall to stop the waves overtopping with high tides and with sea-level rise. So it doesn\u2019t come across the road, and, basically, we\u2019ve got better protection for the infrastructure in Invercargill\u2014so some really permanent legacies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut also thinking forward about how we can create jobs but at the same time manage our response to climate change. So I was at a couple of different nurseries that local iwi are involved with\u2014native tree nurseries. The Jobs for Nature have assisted with the funding. So not only does that create jobs but it means that we can start to restore some of our region\u2019s biodiversity. It means that we can start to improve our water quality and take us further forward in terms of our climate change response. So it\u2019s wonderful to see how many of the innovations are actually doing those dual-purpose jobs, but also climate change but also permanent infrastructure for our region. So, basically, there\u2019s a whole lot of stuff that I think\u2019s going to be very positive out of the previous years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut the problem we\u2019ve got is nothing ever stands still, and I think the problem we\u2019ve got is that we\u2019re looking forward to the ongoing supply issues with the COVID pandemic. We\u2019re looking ahead to the impacts of climate change on food production, and we\u2019re also seeing the impacts more immediately of the war in Ukraine and the impact that\u2019s had on cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut looking again at what we had in terms of buffers in the system when we went through the GFC, our Government in the last few years has put in place incredible\u2014we\u2019ve increased the minimum wage. We\u2019ve increased benefits. We\u2019ve got the winter energy payment. There\u2019s a whole lot more buffers in the system that are going to help families as they negotiate that very difficult time, and then even much more recently looking at 25c a litre off fuel costs and also half-price public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo, for me, we\u2019ve only got one sleep until the Budget, and I\u2019m looking forward to hearing more about what the Government is going to do next to take us through the year ahead. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002282b34b5cef334dc0862542f1f0caf113\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282b34b5cef334dc0862542f1f0caf113\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This week is Budget week. It is the time when the Government tells us how much of your money it wants to spend and on what. Over the past few days, the Government has drip-fed little details of how much will go to whom. The media has, of course, lapped it up, and we\u2019ve already seen them ask that inevitable question: who will be the biggest winners in this year\u2019s Budget? Will it be billions spent on subsidies for film companies or millions on jobs that nobody wants, like the Jobs for Nature scheme, which has been a complete failure? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EOne group of people that I know will be watching are patients and their families, the New Zealanders wondering will there be enough money in this year\u2019s Budget set aside for the medicines that they need to survive or live healthier lives\u2014people with breast cancer, blood cancer, Crohn\u2019s and colitis, spinal muscular atrophy. There are so many conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders have access to fewer modern medicines than in 19 other comparable OECD countries. We have publicly funded the lowest number of modern medicines in the past decade. I suspect the Government will announce a funding increase for Pharmac and medicines this week, as they did last year, pat themselves on the back, and congratulate themselves for seeming wonderful and compassionate, but they are not. Not only did they rule out funding from the review into our drug-buying agency Pharmac after ACT pushed them into a review, they have had that review for months, and patients are still in the dark. They haven\u2019t seen it. The Minister should release it to those patients desperate to get their hands on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EAny announcement this week is simply political theatre, and it doesn\u2019t address the underlying issue. How have we fallen so far behind the rest of the world? Why can our cousins in Australia afford so many more medicines than us? It\u2019s because every Budget, the Government and the media focus on who are the biggest winners, who receives the biggest hand-outs. But if we keep thinking of wealth as a fixed pie that\u2019s divided up every Budget, we will keep gradually declining down the world rankings. Instead, we need to ask: who do we want to be as a country? Do we want to be a country with access to the same newer and modern medicines so New Zealanders can live longer, healthier lives? The ACT Party says yes. So how is it that we have fallen behind the rest of the world, and how do we change it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EIt comes down to culture. We need to be a country that says to Kiwis: if you work, save, invest, and aspire for more, you will be rewarded, not punished. I spoke to a young kid last week about what he was going to do when he finished school. He said, \u201CEngineering, and then I\u2019ll move to Australia.\u201D His friend said the same but said that he\u2019ll move to the UK. I also had an email from a mother who said that she\u2019s moving her four kids to Canada because \u201Canybody who works hard, saves, and budgets is just punished here\u201D. The Budget should give hope to that mother that if she strives for her family, if she works hard, she\u2019s not going to be fodder for a hand-out culture, and that her kids can aspire for more. It also needs to create an environment that leads to more productive jobs with higher wages so that our best and brightest feel like they can have a future here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EACT\u2019s alternative Real Change Budget would deliver just that. We would reduce taxes, make them more competitive, to bring aspiration back. ACT\u2019s tax rates would be 17.5 percent up to $70,000 and 28 percent from there. We\u2019d reduce wasteful spending by cutting policies like the Jobs for Nature scheme, which has cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in a job shortage. We\u2019ve found billions of dollars of wasteful spending that we can cut. We need to make sure our spending is high quality, our tax system is competitive, and our regulatory environment is welcoming, because that creates a more productive economy. Australia has a more productive economy. Their workers\u2019 wages have grown $6,600 a year more than Kiwi workers\u2019 here since the Government took over. We would make it easier to invest in New Zealand. It\u2019s easier to invest in Myanmar and China than here. We would reintroduce 90-day trials. All of this would make New Zealand a more productive economy. That\u2019s the only way that we can fund more modern medicines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EACT\u2019s alternative budget takes on these issues that politicians run a mile from because they\u2019re scared of big, bold change. The question is not whether we can afford big, bold change; it\u2019s whether we can afford not to. Do we want to be a pretty island nation that people visit or one where people stay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00227834103392fc4cf4bc2b1db3cec0c3b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227834103392fc4cf4bc2b1db3cec0c3b1\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the chance to make a contribution today in this general debate on one of the most exciting weeks\u2014Budget week\u2014of all weeks. And what a start to the week it\u2019s been. On Monday, we had climate change Minister James Shaw talking about the emissions reduction plan. Yesterday, we had the Hon Andrew Little talking about mental health investments, and if we think about today\u2014obviously, this afternoon\u2019s contributions from the National Party haven\u2019t exactly been aspirational, but we\u2019ve certainly had some examples of magical thinking, certainly some fuzzy economics, we\u2019ve had some rewriting of history, and a couple of examples of things that simply never happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EBut getting back to the good stuff. Yesterday, it was a real pleasure to be with the Hon Andrew Little as he announced a $100 million investment in the specialist mental health and addiction area. I want to shoutout to Sally and the team at Te Ao M\u0101rama for hosting and for their manaakitanga to really making us feel incredibly welcome and for showing us all of the amazing work that they do. The package includes funding for crisis services, for intensive residential and home-based support, mainly centred around the strengths of peer-led services and the aroha that\u2019s out there to be had, and for us to make the most of in our communities. So I really want to acknowledge the Minister for his unwavering commitment to mental health and for his absolute leadership towards doing mental health differently and for understanding mental health differently\u2014including building a new primary model from the ground up which improves access and is for the betterment of all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOne of the things I\u2019m looking particularly forward to next week, after Budget week, will be catching up with Peter and his team at the Ara trades campus in Woolston, which is in my patch\u2014the beautiful Banks Peninsula. Amongst the many things that, no doubt, we\u2019ll talk about and catch up about will be the Apprenticeship Boost and the fact that this Government\u2014the Labour Government\u2014have extended that Apprenticeship Boost until the end of 2023, and what that means in terms of supporting an additional 38,000 apprenticeships. The key message that we heard from business is that they need more skilled workers, and unlike National\u2014after the global financial crisis, and particularly after the Christchurch earthquakes\u2014we understood and we understand the importance of investing and training New Zealanders to build our houses, to rebuild our houses, and to upgrade our infrastructure. And, importantly, we understand that these things are the things that actually help accelerate our economy and help accelerate our economic recovery. Importantly\u2014and actually, vitally\u2014it helps ensure that there\u2019s good jobs for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOur economy is one of the strongest in the world, and we\u2019ve heard from our excellent Minister of Finance\u2014who is well-known as a safe pair of hands\u2014that we have record low unemployment at 3.2 percent, and our economic activity is up on what it was compared to pre - COVID-19 levels. And that\u2019s, in a large part, because of the investment that this Government has made in training, supporting, and helping New Zealanders into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EEarlier, I mentioned the emissions reduction plan and the announcements that were made on Monday. And on Monday, the climate change Minister, James Shaw, announced New Zealand\u2019s first three budgets, which I think is an absolute milestone on our journey towards a zero-carbon future. In actually meeting the budgets and in the process of meeting the budgets, what we\u2019re actually going to create is new industries, which is exciting; higher-value jobs, which is exciting; lower household energy bills, which is exciting; and we\u2019re going to achieve a more climate-friendly agricultural sector. We\u2019ll have warmer, drier homes, and the by-product of a lot of that stuff is exciting new technologies, which we understand is the driving force for productivity in our economy\u2014not to mention the protection of native species and our ecosystems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, this week is almost certainly one of the most exciting weeks in our parliamentary calendar as we usher in the Budget tomorrow. Despite the fact that\u2014as my colleague Peeni Henare mentioned earlier on\u2014we\u2019ve heard very little solutions from the other side of the House, but, on this side of the House, we are absolutely focused on the things that we know make a real difference to the lives of everyday New Zealanders. There will be cost savings for businesses and a greater resilience in the face of increasing global uncertainty, and I look, very much, forward to hearing all of the other fabulous details that we will all share in tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd312c0f84d94b5bbf8c1c38e6dadddd\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229203dd34f3b6414e853b453bc90a5ec3\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000319\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 4 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00224183e09572eb46268b6a0f7c5f7ddf56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224183e09572eb46268b6a0f7c5f7ddf56\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. The Green Party is pleased to support the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill and congratulate Tangi Utikere for all of his work on the bill. And I think he can be very proud, because I know that Local Government New Zealand will be preparing quite detailed induction materials for all of the new councillors and some of the existing ones that will be elected later on this year. If this bill continues on its third reading today\u2014which I\u2019m sure it will\u2014it will be part of those induction materials in terms of just the changes that the bill makes to improve transparency and to strengthen public trust and confidence in our democratically elected local authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnd I think, in terms of the way in which the bill has come back to the House, it really reinforces the benefits of going to select committee, the benefits of all of those who made submissions, and the select committee\u2019s very thorough consideration of those submissions and its changes to the bill, clarifying a number of matters, and also adding some things to the bill, making it clear that the bill also applied while the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act applies, because that Act does prohibit members from voting on or discussing issues before the local authority in which they directly or indirectly have a conflict of interest. So this bill does not replace that Act, but I would encourage Mr Utikere to, perhaps, with his success here, go on and consider another member\u2019s bill to reform LAMIA\u2014the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act\u2014because I know that Local Government New Zealand and others have been raising concerns about that Act for some considerable time about how it is 50 years old and somewhat out of date and has had quite significant problems in terms of its implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill is an improvement to local authority law. And some of the changes that were made in select committee were making it very clear, for example, that local councillors, when they were declaring a property interest\u2014in the same way that members of Parliament do\u2014it wasn\u2019t to be the specific address of that real property; it was to be the general location. That was another example of the changes that the bill is implementing seek to put local councillors on a similar footing in terms of members of Parliament in terms of the interests that they have to declare and be transparent about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut I would like to comment on the rather puzzling contribution from a National member: Maureen Pugh. We had a very thoughtful contribution from Simon Watts when the House was considering the bill previously about National\u2019s support for the bill. But Ms Pugh, despite being a former Mayor of Westland District Council, seemed to be puzzled about the need for this bill. And yet I was puzzled because it was the Westland District Council, of course, which got the attention of the Office of the Auditor-General for the way in which they had carried out their work in terms of protecting waste-water infrastructure at Franz Josef in 2019. And the Office of the Auditor-General raised serious concerns about the way in which elected councillors had identified and approached potential contractors to do the work to implement the stopbank, and the Auditor-General concluded that there were numerous examples of poor decision-making and poor procurement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo what this bill is seeking to do is make it very clear to councillors that they need to declare their interests in order to be transparent about that whenever an issue that potentially relates to those interests is being discussed by council. And we welcome the fact that, I think, all of the parties across the House are supporting this bill, because it will be a positive change to the law. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00222a1a84b748444255911cae319c86bb59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a1a84b748444255911cae319c86bb59\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to take a call on this bill, which is being shepherded through the House by my good friend Tangi Utikere\u2014well done to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to begin by making a few acknowledgments and some thanks, and then I\u2019ll move on to the specific aspects of the bill. So, first of all, my thanks to the Governance and Administration Committee, and I see the chair of the committee, on the opposite side, Ian McKelvie\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8584dc5cfb4757ba4288f49e0c03a8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317e93e397d743af8e42a406c35719af\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: It is an excellent committee. I\u2019ve actually just joined the committee myself, so I should probably declare a conflict of interest on that. But, no, it\u2019s a very good committee, and the committee did a good job hearing the submissions. I\u2019d like to thank all of those who made submissions on this bill\u2014also, to thank the staff. Look, we hear this quite a bit in speeches, but I\u2019d like to hear it even more in terms of the thanks for the staff around this place. And, actually, if I could digress just very slightly to also thank the sound engineers in the box up on our right, or on the left for the people opposite, because if we didn\u2019t have them, we wouldn\u2019t have these microphones working to be able to have that debate. So just a brief digression to also thank them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThis bill so far has been supported by all parties, and it\u2019s certainly my hope that all parties will support it at the third reading to, obviously, bring it into law soon. The first thing I\u2019m going to talk about is really a philosophical view about the importance of trust in leadership within our democracy. Now, it\u2019s important that we don\u2019t take our democracy for granted. And living in, you know, a state of relative freedom here in New Zealand, the democracy that we have plays a very key role in that. The philosopher John Donne once said: \u201CMutual trust lies at the heart of all political processes.\u201D That\u2019s primarily what this bill is about. It\u2019s about trusting the elected members. And as the elected members declare their conflicts or potential conflicts in a pecuniary interest form, that will raise the trust of those who have voted them into that position. I believe it will also increase voter turnout, because one of the reasons why people don\u2019t vote is if they don\u2019t have trust in their elected officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIn the fifth century, Greece\u2014sorry to take us on a brief history lesson, but the members will find it interesting\u2014I don\u2019t know if any members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8dea19b9071443da2e67272dc690cf3\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on; Ian was there. I\u2019ll ask Ian!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8df6166b6a4995ac4778a89c0cf327\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: There we go. One of the members has claimed another member or members that\u2014it was certainly a long time ago. In fifth century Greece, 500 people were chosen each year to serve in the Government for one year. So, basically, 500 people were randomly, I believe, chosen to be the elected representatives and, after 12 months, those people were removed from office and another 500 were chosen. I see some nods from the members who certainly know about this. It\u2019s interesting because our democratic philosophy comes from Greece, and it\u2019s important that we don\u2019t take our democracy for granted. We must value it. We must continue to value it. We only have to look at other countries around the world who don\u2019t share our views to see what, I\u2019m sure, most would agree, is some of the negative side effects of not having a well-functioning democracy. So this bill will play a further role in strengthening and protecting our democracy. And just a second quote on that topic by G N Briggs quite a long time ago, 1644, who said \u201CPublic office is a public trust created for the benefit of the whole people and not for the benefit of those who may fill them.\u201D Very accurate words and words for all of us who have been elected here to continue to reflect on as we serve the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESome of the benefits of having that trust is, obviously, like I said before, the willingness to vote, promotion of public legitimacy, support for bipartisan compromises, and support for programmes. There are many benefits that we often take for granted. But if we lose that trust, if the people of New Zealand lose trust, whether they\u2019re taxpayers or whether they\u2019re ratepayers, if they lose trust in those people that they\u2019ve elected, we\u2019re on a slope that will end in a very dark place for our country on pretty much every level that you can imagine. So it\u2019s important that we continue to uphold these principles and our knowledge, again, in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo one of the reasons why we\u2019re supporting this bill on this side of the House is that it\u2019s important for ratepayers to understand any possible influences on those people elected to represent them. We\u2019ve got a local body election coming up soon. You know, we\u2019ll all sit down and we\u2019ll pick up a booklet. We\u2019ll work our way through the booklet and we\u2019ll see a number of candidates, and within that booklet there will be 200-word blurbs within that booklet. And for people who haven\u2019t met all of the candidates, they very much are relying on that 200-word blurb\u2014there\u2019s probably a better word for it\u2014candidate profile. So they\u2019ll be looking at that profile and then they\u2019ll be making a voting decision. You know, they\u2019ll be talking to others and they\u2019ll be using their past experience, but the reality is that 200-word candidate profile will in no way be able to outline all of the possible vested interests, all of the interests of these people, and try and give an accurate representation. So, look, this piece of legislation will support people making informed decisions about those people that are elected and subsequently re-elected. So transparency and trust and confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIt also brings consistency across councils, because some councils already have a form of something similar to what we have as MPs, a register of pecuniary interests, but some councils don\u2019t. So at the moment, there\u2019s an ad hoc system. This piece of legislation will bring consistency to the councils, which is a good thing. It also covers local boards\u2014initially it didn\u2019t; it only covered the territorial councils, but this now covers local boards, which is a good change the select committee made. I\u2019m thinking of the example up in Auckland where there are a number of local boards and those local boards make significant investments of ratepayers\u2019 money into their communities. So that was a practical, important, important change. This bill doesn\u2019t cover CEO staff, CEOs or staff, only elected members. Just an important point to raise there. It\u2019s for $500, but captures cumulative donations over $500. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThere were some personal safety concerns around too much information being disclosed that would then therefore\u2014well, let me put it another way: it was around information being disclosed that would impinge on the safety of elected members. Those have been addressed through the second reading, which is good to see. So it\u2019s, really, more along the lines of general interest, not listing every client the councillor has. So some useful, useful changes there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI think one of the big points in this bill that impresses me is that it aligns local government with central government, and I think that\u2019s a really good thing. There\u2019s often, you know, people saying, out in the community, that they can at various times feel like there\u2019s a disconnect between central and local government. But anything we can do to bring those two closer together is useful. I personally value that myself very much, having recently been meeting with almost all of the elected members from the Hamilton City Council, and it\u2019s something I will continue to do in terms of building that relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to touch on something briefly which I heard a previous member speak on and I\u2019d like to touch on, too, and that\u2019s the remuneration for those in local government positions, the local government elected members. In my opinion, I would like to personally see that remuneration increase. I know that a number of councils find it very difficult to attract candidates who have governance experience to oversee large portfolios of both assets and income and spending, making significant decisions for their communities, because of that low pay. So that\u2019s just something I\u2019d also like to put on record. It\u2019d be interesting to see how things may or may not develop in that space. But I\u2019d like to acknowledge all of those who do stand, who are elected members and who will be standing again for those positions, and I\u2019d like to see that income increase. So we will see what happens here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just looked at the clock and seen that my time is finished. A very brief shout-out to Ross Robertson, a former member of Parliament, and a local government politician, who made an excellent submission on this. He highlighted the aspect of ensuring that citizens have trust in their elected members, like I outlined before. So I\u2019d like to thank Ross Robertson for his submission. A good piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2e5103a710e471d9594054a27853784\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2e5103a710e471d9594054a27853784\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The ACT Party supported this piece of legislation to select committee, and until it got to the committee of the whole House, we had hoped that the Government would respond to some concerns that people had, which, essentially, said, \u201CLook, if there\u2019s a loss of trust in local government, is this the way to address it or are there other ways?\u201D What is the fundamental reason for a loss of trust in a local government? What ACT says is that, despite the fact that this member has chosen to bring this bill to the House, supported by the Government majority, it doesn\u2019t actually solve the problem of loss of trust in local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EA pecuniary interest register, where you ask people who want to stand for office to list all of their assets and interests, is actually not going to deliver what it says it will. I had proposed a Supplementary Order Paper to amend the bill to extend the requirements for disclosure, if there were going to be any, to people that actually made decisions about procurement and were responsible for awarding contracts, because if there\u2019s anything that undermines trust and confidence in local government, it\u2019s when local government wastes money and allows employees and senior managers to get away with fraud. But the Government majority voted down my Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019ll move on to is the loss of trust. There\u2019s been a loss of local voice with central government taking actions that actually belong with local government. There\u2019s been messing with voter representation. The Labour Party has introduced bills to this House messing with representation, like the Rotorua representation proposal, which allocates an unfair number of seats to people based on their ethnicity. There\u2019s one thing that\u2019s going to undermine trust and confidence in local government and democracy; it\u2019s giving people different rights by virtue of their ethnicity. ACT opposes that, and we\u2019ll continue to oppose it. In fact, the Attorney-General, David Parker, opposes it. So, for once, the Labour Party are getting schooled from one of their own on what\u2019s good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAnother reason that people have lost trust and confidence in local government, which the member Tangi Utikere has failed to consider when bringing this bill to the House, is that they failed to deliver infrastructure\u2014insufficient serviced land for housing. And we know that because we have local government organisations appealing developers, like those in South Auckland who are proposing to build tens of thousands of new homes. They\u2019ve opposed it, and now they\u2019re considering whether to appeal developments at Drury, for example, because of the infrastructure funding requirement. Well, ACT has a solution to that. What we\u2019d say is that local government should share 50 percent of the GST on all new house building. That would cash flow the infrastructure, take the problem away from local government, and actually give local government trust and confidence that they can deliver stuff because they\u2019d get the money that would otherwise be kept by central government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another problem for local government that\u2019s caused a loss of trust and confidence: it\u2019s getting off track with stuff that central government should be dealing with. I\u2019ll give you an example: climate change. Climate change has driven Auckland Council and Auckland Transport to make some absolutely ridiculous commitments they can\u2019t meet about reducing emissions from transport. And the reason they can\u2019t meet and will never meet those commitments, and the reason they\u2019ll spend tens of millions of dollars chasing this unicorn is because this Government has set completely unrealistic targets, and they are now cascading down so that, rather than focusing on relieving congestion, rather than focusing on building the roading connections that they should, they already zoned hundreds of thousands of people to live in new suburbs and failed to build the roading connections. What they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re wasting money. They\u2019re wasting money on projects, like enormously expensive cycleways at $8 million per kilometre, in order to reduce emissions. It is a complete waste of time. They\u2019re off the rails. That\u2019s another reason why voters and local communities have lost trust in local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s the abuse of the Resource Management Act (RMA) perpetrated by local government. Just yesterday, I opened the Dominion Post\u2014what used to be a newspaper of record now struggles to come up with good stories, but they had a good one yesterday. That was that the Greater Wellington Regional Council had wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars, pursuing another council and landowners for disturbing a wetland that turned out not to be a wetland. It was such an egregious abuse of their powers under the Resource Management Act of property owners seeking to develop their own property that the Environment Court awarded half a million dollars of costs against the Greater Wellington Regional Council. And, in fact, the Environment Court was so aggrieved by this abuse of the RMA process by a council, they\u2019re considering whether the Environment Court should also send an invoice to the Greater Wellington Regional Council for wasting the court\u2019s time. So if there\u2019s anything that would undermine trust and confidence, there are some examples, and this bill goes nowhere towards addressing any of those fundamental issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo the member Jamie Strange made some interesting observations. He described the bipartisan approach potentially as building more trust and confidence. There\u2019s another name for that. The engineers at NASA who sent the Challenger up, knowing that tiles would fall off and it could catch fire and explode\u2014they had a bipartisan approach to the problem. That\u2019s called groupthink. And that\u2019s why ACT MPs stand here in the House and we offer better public policy than any other political party in this House. We do not share in groupthink around climate change. We do not share in groupthink around electric vehicles. We have better policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe member Jamie Strange also talked about the candidates in this upcoming local government election and the 200 words that they get to describe what kind of candidate they are. Well, I can offer some advice to voters and viewers today. This is what you should be looking for in that 200-word blurb: a commitment to upholding private property rights. That means people should be able to use their property as they see fit without undue interference or control from central or local government\u2014without having mad councils, like the Greater Wellington Regional Council, launch an appeal against building new houses in a paddock; what they called a wetland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe other thing is local government should stop competing with the private sector in business activities that the private sector already executes very, very well and makes a profit at. I\u2019ll give you some examples: waste management. Dunedin Council\u2019s about to spend tens of millions of dollars, investing in building a new landfill. Well, there are technologies that would put landfills out of business. Why on earth is Dunedin City Council pursuing this opportunity? And, in fact, if you wanted to build and operate a landfill, you could simple allow the private sector to do it for you. There is no reason for Dunedin to be investing public money in such a thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got Auckland Council teamed up with the Government, with the Minister Megan Woods, to pursue a climate agenda, which is funding electric ferries to compete against Fullers in Auckland. If there\u2019s anything that damages trust and confidence in local government, it\u2019s central government and local government competing with the private sector to deliver services that private sector is already employing people to do. That\u2019s what voters should be looking for when they\u2019re looking at the candidate blurb. Stay out of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe other thing they should be looking for is: will this candidate support taking out car-parking in my local business district and damaging local business interests? If we want to talk about the history of local government, actually, it was founded in New Zealand by local businesses\u2014small- and medium-business people who got together to raise money for things like town halls and to organise a street cleaning operation, and they paid for it from local business profits, and that\u2019s something that\u2019s absolutely lost on this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why ACT will reject this bill. We won\u2019t be voting to support it, because it doesn\u2019t solve the underlying problem of how to restore trust and confidence in local government. Mr Tangi Utikere, the member, was a former deputy mayor of Palmerston North City Council, so he, of all people, should know that what I\u2019m saying is absolutely correct. But, of course, having to have a member\u2019s bill you can bring to the House and say you\u2019ve done something\u2014well, Mr Utikere, this is not the thing that you should be doing. So ACT will reject it, and what we\u2019ll be doing is proposing better ways to deliver infrastructure\u2014sharing 50 percent of the GST with local government so that local government can cash flow the delivery of infrastructure to get more houses built. That\u2019s what Kiwis are asking for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002289bbe2ecf2d4404996d1cfa5d9ac8f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289bbe2ecf2d4404996d1cfa5d9ac8f33\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in support of this bill, especially since it comes from my friend and colleague Tangi Utikere. He is a new member of Parliament, and to watch him handle the debate that he did in the time in committee stage of this was actually just a wonderful thing for our entire intake of MPs, I think, to see how accomplished he was. That probably wasn\u2019t an accident; that was because he\u2019s come from a role as a deputy mayor, and that has informed what he has decided is an important thing to bring to this House. So he\u2019s taken this on from another MP, who has become a Minister. Both of those people have their feet on the ground about this matter. They know what it\u2019s like being in local government and where the catches are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat I appreciate about this bill is it\u2019s taught me a few things. It\u2019s made me think about transparency and about conflict and about perceived conflict. And, yes, as my colleague Jamie Strange said, it\u2019s made me think about what is very important in New Zealand in terms of reinforcing open, transparent, and democratic processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk a little bit about that for a minute because New Zealand is a place where, I think, no matter what you do, you see that it is vulnerable to corruption. It\u2019s a place where we all know each other, and sometimes that\u2019s a really good thing; it means that we have a strong sense of community and it probably helped us recently in COVID. But the downside of that is it can be quite a lot of pressure on people. If your mate wants you to do something, it can be a situation where you can have corruption grow pretty quickly. You can be an open and good place to live and you can turn into somewhere where those things are happening in an insidious way really quickly if you don\u2019t guard against it. I think that\u2019s probably something that we all share as something that we\u2019re watching all the time, because we all come to Parliament wanting to do the right thing. People who come to local body also come wanting to do the right thing. But sometimes, actually, they need guidance. This kind of Act will allow people to know exactly where the rules are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo what the Act will do is it will actually reinforce trust and confidence in that process. I think it\u2019s particularly important, because I see a great value in a lot of what we do in local government, where it is possible, because in local government there can be a real responsiveness. I really like that idea. But we can\u2019t do that if, actually, by doing it, we\u2019re taking a risk. So this is one of the things that will keep everyone safe. It will keep the public safe, because they will know what they are dealing with and who they are dealing with. It will keep the people who are brave enough to stand for local body politics safe too, because they will be declaring their interests constantly and they will habitually understand where those lines are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo what they will be showing is they will be, every year, indicating what has happened in the last 12 months in their lives that might actually provide a conflict. They will declare when they\u2019ve got more than 10 percent interest in a company. They will declare when they\u2019re a director of the company. They will declare which companies they\u2019re involved with even beyond that. For ones that they\u2019ve got a significant stake, they\u2019ll describe what the activities of that company are, and that\u2019s really important for a public who, really, probably, often get baffled by the amount of information that is in the local body process, and if you write a company name, they don\u2019t really know what that indicates, without an indication of activity. So the activities themselves are the things that are going to be the red flags to whether there\u2019s a conflict, whether people really need to worry about that. That information is going to be provided on a 12-monthly basis and it will be the entire 12 months, and there are probably lessons to be learnt there, because, in Parliament, we actually declare them once a year, which actually isn\u2019t as thorough as this. So I absolutely congratulate you on providing something that\u2019s even more robust than what we have here, because anything somebody does in that time is reflected upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThen they will declare gifts of over $500. That\u2019s a pretty important thing to do, because those things can motivate. They\u2019ll declare travel that they do where somebody else has contributed. We always have in mind, in the Labour Party, a concern about that insidious interest that sometimes come in from a lobby group, that you get groups that come in and they have money, they have power, and it\u2019s very important that, actually, we always, always keep an eyes on those things, and it\u2019s very important that we distinguish between actually listening to people and actually having shared interests and thoughts and being won over by things like sweet deals, travel, and gifts. So that\u2019s a really important thing for us to put right up there, and this bill does that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s going to also mean that people declare their beneficial interests. Now, I thought that was a really interesting point that had been brought up and dealt with. It\u2019s not just beneficial interests you know about; it\u2019s ones that you should know about. So there\u2019s a little bit more cover than usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd then there is the actual declaration of what real property you own. So, I think, in society, we\u2019ve used things like trusts as a form of shelter, in many ways, but they come with a terrible price in transparency. Now, those things become just known to the public, and that\u2019s a good thing. It means that people know if somebody has got them. We can, perhaps, keep some of those mechanisms that we\u2019ve had but people aren\u2019t actually going to be tricked by them. It is actually information that is key to us actually making an informed decision about who we vote for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d really like to see more people from local government come into the Parliament. I think what is interesting about this is that the rules that are being developed around that area are ones that are actually becoming almost universal across our culture. Where we see a conflict, we now expect people to actually declare it. It\u2019s true in professions that they need those kinds of rules, it\u2019s true in here that we need these kinds of rules, and it\u2019s true for our colleagues in local government. Actually having a set of rules across all structures which are of a similar ilk is actually a really good, good place to be as a country, because it\u2019s a healthy place to be as a country. It might be uncomfortable at times, but it is actually going to serve us well in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ERecently, I\u2019ve been listening to a lot of interesting podcasts about the UK and how many of these factors of lobbying have been problematic in one of our role models in terms of democracy. I think we are very lucky that we have not actually had that degree of conflict in our system. This puts our first and foremost call for citizens, their local government, on that same footing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI take the point made by Jamie Strange that it also makes sure that one council is actually being given the same benchmark as another council, So it isn\u2019t up to each council; everybody is up for the same standard. So we can all get used to the rules. There will be mistakes made, there always are. These things are not actually as easy as they seem. What you have to do under this Act, if you don\u2019t declare something, is you have to do it as soon as you possibly can. I think it\u2019s really important these systems are sensitive to the fact that the people who stand in these positions are brave, they\u2019re vulnerable in lots of ways, and it\u2019s really important that they\u2019re actually treated with respect and that we all actually live under a scheme that is one of good faith, one of best transparency. That is what this Act does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI would like to thank my colleague again\u2014Tangi Utikere\u2014for bringing it to this House and I think it will mean a real difference to our society. So thank you and congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58a37a471324a578757d37ac104026d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58a37a471324a578757d37ac104026d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Harete Hipango\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00220c4b29cb8e9d4bf5bb8ae345c83f4111\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c4b29cb8e9d4bf5bb8ae345c83f4111\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a brief call. I\u2019m just demisting my glasses and, with speaking to this bill, demystifying the bill as well\u2014Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill. In speaking to the bill today, it\u2019s a bit of a mare of a place in the Chamber. I look around the Chamber and we\u2019re graced with the presence of former deputy mayors and mayors, on both sides of the House. In speaking to this bill, I acknowledge the member Tangi Utikere in the success with this bill being brought to the third reading, which is supported by the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the member has presented, submitted, advocated, represented, and progressed this bill based on experience. I also acknowledge good colleague and friend Paul Eagle, a former deputy mayor as well and, again, bringing to the House that level of experience; my colleagues Maureen Pugh and Ian McKelvie, both former mayors of the respective communities that they come from. So, in supporting this bill, the bill is substantively enhanced because of the experience that members across the House bring. I also note my colleague Ian McKelvie chaired the Governance and Administration Committee in the transference and transmission of this bill through to the third reading, soon to pass into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAlthough it\u2019s a small bill and relatively straightforward, it\u2019s significant. In the House again today, but in the Chamber last night, there was the Data and Statistics Bill and members talked about the importance of transparency, and that\u2019s what this bill attempts to improve\u2014the public\u2019s trust with the transparency, in building confidence in local government in relation to that. What\u2019s been interesting is, although not sitting on these select committees, when we are invited to address the House and speak to these bills, we go on a journey ourselves in terms of reading the reports and looking at what amendments have been made for improvement to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s noted that the report from the Governance and Administration Committee made a number of recommendations with amendments. Interestingly enough, what\u2019s been reported back to the committee of the whole House, as a result of that, to this third reading, is that all of those recommendations for amendments from the select committee report have been picked up and those adjustments accordingly made to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the purpose of the bill is that it creates a pecuniary interest disclosure regime that\u2019s similar to one that Parliament has for the members. This is premised on local government and local authorities, thus demystifying what interests and pecuniary interests that those in public office have in giving service and representation. So the bill requires that councils maintain and publish yearly a register of elected members pecuniary and other specified interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI am to be followed by the last speaker of the National Party\u2014most appropriately, really, to wrap this up\u2014Ian McKelvie, who chaired the select committee, who calls and is duly recognised in the House, and warmly regarded by colleagues across the House. So Mr McKelvie will address the House in that chairpersonship role and also in the role of having been a long-serving Mayor of the Manawat\u016B district\u2014for some nine years I believe it was, Ian\u2014and then being elected into Parliament in 2011, giving service thus far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo I will wrap this up because it will be a matter of after the next speaker, my colleague will finish this off. In doing so, there are times when members in this Chamber, appropriately, should be gracious and acknowledgments appropriately afforded. So I do so, accordingly, to the member whose name this bill has been carried through into the making of law, Tangi Utikere. Ng\u0101 mihi ki a koe. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00225436ab5f4e4c47678337623c277ae4c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225436ab5f4e4c47678337623c277ae4c1\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It is a huge honour and a privilege to speak on the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill, in the name of Tangi Utikere. It\u2019s an absolute honour as the chair of the Pacific caucus to speak on this member\u2019s bill, which, hopefully, by the end of these spectacular speeches, will go into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI know the member who has just spoken, Harete Hipango, made an attempt to demystify the bill to us, so I will make a second attempt to see if we really can get to the core of the matter. This bill amends the Local Government Act 2002 to provide for the establishment of a register of pecuniary and other specified interests for members of local authorities, such as directorships, business interests, employment, and property. It is really important that I state why I support this bill. It\u2019s important for ratepayers to understand any possible influences on these elected local council members. It\u2019s important that voters and ratepayers understand what influences these elected people come in with. Secondly, the purpose of the bill is to provide transparency and to strengthen public trust and confidence in the decision making of local authorities. Thirdly, it will provide greater transparency in terms of the interests of members of local authorities to improve public trust and confidence and contribute to more robust decision-making by local authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EIn this debate, we have heard about Greece from Jamie Strange. We\u2019ve ridden on unicorns on rainbows\u2014that\u2019s from the ACT Party\u2019s Simon Court. But I want to give factual information today in terms of New Zealand. The Corruption Perceptions Index in 2021, which was published in January of 2022, has New Zealand tied third-equal with Denmark and Finland for being the least corrupt country in the world. So I believe that this bill adds to and contributes to our international reputation as one of the least corrupt countries in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to quote the member Tangi Utikere from when he released a press release to explain the reasons why he\u2019s promoting the bill. I want to quote Tangi Utikere on this because it\u2019s been challenged by some members on the other side in terms of why this bill is in the House and its relevance. I quote him: \u201CLet me be clear: in promoting this bill, I am not suggesting that there has been any wrongdoing, but I am suggesting that there is currently an anomaly with the level of disclosure and transparency expected of members of Parliament and the level of disclosure and transparency expected in local government. And I don\u2019t believe there should be a difference.\u201D I think that\u2019s really important, because there was some suggestion that there was little relevance for this bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill do? It enforces one law for all. Currently, what councils do if there is a conflict of interest for a local elected council official is they use a conflict of interest register where they register the conflict of interest. What this bill means is that there will be an annual published register of pecuniary interests of elected officials so that the ratepayers know the influences they have in decision making about rates, about public money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EIn my haste I forgot to acknowledge the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, Ian McKelvie\u2014thank you for your leadership in the select committee\u2019s due diligence in scrutinising and writing this bill. I take this opportunity again to congratulate the member Tangi Utikere for this bill, the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228435b0a0ff5647baa74afbcd888b0166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228435b0a0ff5647baa74afbcd888b0166\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this bill. It might be a short one, because there\u2019s a very good bill coming up later in the night which we need to get to. I just wanted to, first of all, just comment a little bit on my initial view of this bill, because I did have some nervousness about this bill initially. I thought it would have the potential, I suppose, to intimidate people\u2014put people off standing. In fact, we had one or two submitters who suggested the same thing. But I think we\u2019ve got the bill, in my view, into a pretty good space now, and I\u2019ve got every confidence in supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut I did want to make just one or two comments about the issue I just raised, because I think that a couple of our speakers earlier raised other issues which I\u2019d be a little concerned about. And Helen White talked about making mistakes in pecuniary interests\u2014well, frankly, if you\u2019re going to make a mistake in a pecuniary interest, you shouldn\u2019t be here. If you can\u2019t fill your own pecuniary interest, then how can you fill someone else\u2019s? That\u2019s the first point I wanted to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd the other point I wanted to make was that Simon Court, in my view, missed the point of members\u2019 bills. Members\u2019 bills are really there to make a little difference to sometimes a big thing, to sometimes a little thing. And they\u2019re generally bills that Governments would never consider putting in place because they take too much work and Governments are too busy. And so I think the point of members\u2019 bills, to a large extent, is to do exactly what this member\u2019s bill\u2019s done, which is to make a little difference to something that might make, in some cases, a large difference. And if you look at Auckland, Wellington, Dunedin, Christchurch, probably a large difference, but if you look at Manawat\u016B, Kaik\u014Dura, places like that, nowhere near the difference. And generally in places like the Manawat\u016B, or Kaik\u014Dura for that matter, we probably know enough about everyone else\u2019s business to know what they\u2019re doing anyway. And so that\u2019s the interesting thing about small communities. And so I guess that when you think that we\u2019re looking at the pecuniary interest of people who are probably, in some cases, standing for a job that might pay them five or 10 grand a year, it\u2019s hardly got great significance. None the less, the principle\u2019s the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think the bill got to a good space there, and I think we had one or two submitters who made quite a difference. And I just want to mention Sir Maarten Wevers, because he came in and really straightened our thinking up on how the bill should work, because he obviously has a lot of experience in this because he runs the parliamentary pecuniary interests. So, from that perspective, he made quite a bit of difference to the way we thought about it. And there were one or two other issues that I think were really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd the member Tangi Utikere introduced a Supplementary Order Paper to the process which just clarified the relationship between the two bills that concern this, and one is the LAMIA bill\u2014or Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act\u2014which has been in place for a long time. So there has been some reference or control over this for quite some time now. And the relationship between those two bills needs to be clarified, because, if it wasn\u2019t, there could have well been some confusion as to when you\u2019ve got a pecuniary interest and when you haven\u2019t, and I think that was necessary to be done. That was done during the course of the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut the other couple of other issues that were really important and need to be borne in mind as we go forward is there was a suggestion in the original bill that, for example, an accountant could have to declare all that accountant\u2019s clients. And I think just as well that was tidied up in the bill and put in order. So I think the bill\u2019s in pretty good order from that perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk about just a couple of other things related to local government. The idea of bills like this is to improve the confidence in local government. And there\u2019s been a suggestion that, actually, one of the reasons that local government voter turnout is so low is because there\u2019s no confidence. I tend to take a different view on that. And I think that one of the reasons I think local government election turnout is so low is because, frankly, in most places there\u2019s next to no publicity given to local government elections at all, and that\u2019s quite a challenge for us. So for some of the bigger councils, no doubt some people will have big budgets. And I see some of the budgets that are being outlined for the Auckland mayoralty right now which is significant, but, in most places, those budgets are very, very small, and the advertising is next to zero. And I think that\u2019s something we could well do something about in the future as a Parliament, because we don\u2019t generate interest in local elections, even in our own elections, in fact. And, of course, we\u2019ve got the Tauranga by-election right now. If we don\u2019t generate interest in those things\u2014we\u2019re certainly going to\u2014I think we\u2019re never going to encourage more interest in what we do as politicians and what our local government organisations do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, with those few words, I just want to congratulate the member on what I think is an ideal member\u2019s bill. It was well discussed by the select committee, it was put in very good order, and I think\u2014as I go back to the comments that Simon Court made earlier\u2014it\u2019s pretty specific, this bill. It deals with an issue that for some people is important, and I think it\u2019s well worthwhile. So it\u2019s a very worthy member\u2019s bill and we\u2019ve got no problem commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022948f4c9f74554c2cb56bb209c9d3ccbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022948f4c9f74554c2cb56bb209c9d3ccbe\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to make the final call on the third reading of the member\u2019s bill, the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI have the honour, then, of finally acknowledging the member whose name this bill is in, for bringing this bill to the House. As we have heard in all of the readings, and particularly this afternoon, there is a significant amount of work that the Governance and Administration Committee did on this bill\u2014and a lot of acknowledgment has been given to the member for first and foremost identifying this gap and bringing this member\u2019s bill to the House, but also the way in which the committee worked really hard to make this the best possible piece of legislation, which we are debating this afternoon and are going to be passing shortly, in about another nine minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe member is a new member, and so I think it\u2019s wonderful that today his first member\u2019s bill is going to pass. I watch with interest what the next one will be. What I love about this one is it is connected to the work that he did prior to coming into Parliament, and I think that\u2019s one of the wonderful things\u2014with that experience that you have and the opportunity that you get in here, to be able to put that experience to good use and to make meaningful changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk, first and foremost, about the purpose of this bill and the purpose of the register. As described in the bill, the purpose is to \u201Crecord members\u2019 interests so as to provide transparency and to strengthen public trust and confidence in the local government processes and decision-making.\u201D As I spoke in one of my earlier contributions, before coming to Parliament I too was an elected member. I was first elected on to the Far North District Council in 2013 and then a second term in 2016 before coming into Parliament on the list in 2017. So doing one and a bit terms on council. I wasn\u2019t a member of the select committee, so when I was listening to the contributions and understanding what this member\u2019s bill is proposing to do, I was reflecting on the time that I was on the Far North District Council, and I remember vividly that we had our interests listed on every agenda, actually, before every meeting. And so the issue there is I assumed\u2014and found out I was wrong to assume this\u2014that it was something that all councils, in fact, did. But as I was listening to the contributions in that debate, it became clear to me in the House that that\u2019s not actually the case for all of our councils across the country. So while the Local Government Act requires all councils to have a code of conduct, it doesn\u2019t require that code of conduct to have the requirement for a pecuniary interests register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo here I was sitting there going, \u201COh, I remember having to declare all of my interests, and, in fact, it was published on every agenda at every meeting.\u201D I quickly did a google search of the Whangarei District Council, the Northland Regional Council, the Kaipara District Council, all those councils that are in my Northland electorate, and they too all declare their interests, they have a register for that. But coming back to the point that this bill addresses is that there is no consistency across our 57 councils\u2014is it?\u2014across the country. So by having this legislation, it will no longer be something that\u2019s done ad hoc, but that is, in fact, required of every council. I think that that is important because, you know, you possibly have heard it in your electorates as well, but I often hear people say, \u201COh, those dodgy councillors and mayors, they\u2019ve got interests in these things\u201D or \u201CThey\u2019re hooking up their mates.\u201D And that\u2019s not helpful to local democracy. That\u2019s not helpful to people who\u2014as we heard the member Ian McKelvie say\u2014might want to stand for local government and to have that perception or those things said about you. So I think that actually having the pecuniary interest register there, that you can point to when accusations might be made, is helpful and it will instil more trust and more confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI wanted to also mention the benefit of having the select committee processes, that they picked up in that process that when the bill initially was introduced to the House, it was only for elected members of the council. However, the select committee discussed that elected members who are local board members and who are community board members undertake a very similar role. They often make decisions which have financial implications\u2014and in the case of Auckland local boards, it\u2019s quite significant sums of money. But even in the Far North, while a lot of smaller sums of money, our community board does make funding decisions and distributes a number of grants out into the community. So when I saw that the select committee had identified that as one of the gaps of the initial legislation that was proposed and made strong recommendations as to why it should be included, I wholeheartedly support its inclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ENot every council has community boards, but, in the Far North, we do have community boards. They are members who are elected into those positions by their community and so, therefore, they will be captured by this legislation. So I just wanted to talk to a couple of things that the members are required to include, the information they are required to include in their return: the names of any companies which they are directors of, but also every other company or business or entity that they may gain a pecuniary interest from. The next one is if the member is employed. Now, I do know that in the local government space, while it is a very busy role it is not well remunerated and many elected members do undertake other work as well. So it is important that that is disclosed somewhere, particularly if it\u2019s going to be the subject of any of the decisions that they are making. It also includes the name of any trust in to which the member has a beneficial interest, or the name of any organisation or trust, and a description of the main activities that the member is a member of, the organisation or a member of the governing body of the organisation or a trustee of the trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just reflecting on my last marae trustees meeting where we\u2019re talking about the inclusion of a conflicts of interest register in our marae charter, because this is an issue that has come up and we had a great debate about it. The reality is: New Zealand is a very small place. We all wear many hats. I don\u2019t know how many boards you\u2019ve all been on in the past, often in a voluntary capacity, but those organisations that we are members of do, in some cases, make application to the councils, to the community boards, to the local boards, and, in the case we were debating at the marae, also to Government departments. So I do think that this is an important one to capture, because it was through that discussion that I saw that people\u2014it\u2019s that trust and confidence, again, in the people who are making decisions on your behalf, that the perceived conflicts of interests or any pecuniary interests are declared so that it\u2019s known they can remove themselves from the decision making. That can all be clarified and people can have more trust and confidence in those who are making those decisions. It also includes any organisation that you hold as a member, as an appointment by virtue of being an elected member. I had one of those positions. I was on the Turner Centre, who in turn applied to the council for funding for its operations\u2014it, essentially, is the community hall. So it captures that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve now come to the end of my contribution. I commend the member and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f308e1651a104d2590a2b53d4315ca13\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000395\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a91677322c94776b4f1f41ec2148bbd\u0022\u003EImproving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022262973f0450c4c64a8a2db00cf09eb95\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000398\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 13 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002272b95cf4ee1549a0bfa46842ee06b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272b95cf4ee1549a0bfa46842ee06b1e3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a wonderful opportunity to move from one great bill to another this afternoon. Can I just, obviously, speak in support of the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill, and, in doing so, I want to congratulate and acknowledge my colleague and friend T\u0101mati Coffey. I recall, actually, Mr Coffey\u2019s contribution in the former bill that has just succeeded with its third reading, where Mr Coffey identified that he had not actually had a member\u2019s bill that had been drawn from the ballot at that point, and then, I think, in the very next ballot that followed that contribution from the member in the House, his bill was drawn. So I know what it\u2019s like to have a member\u2019s bill drawn and I certainly congratulate the member on what he has brought to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe title of the bill says it all, really. It is a bill that is seeking to improve the arrangements for those that are involved in surrogacy arrangements. Having said that, though, it does seek to do three key things, and the first is that it seeks to simplify surrogacy arrangements. The natures of them can be quite different from individual and wh\u0101nau to wh\u0101nau, but simplification is certainly a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second is that it seeks to ensure that the information that is contained on a birth certificate is complete and that it recognises the child\u2019s right under international obligations and conventions to know the genetic origins of the child themselves but also for identity purposes. This House has spent some time, certainly in this current term of Parliament, looking at issues around birth certificates and the nature of the information that is contained on those certificates. I know that the Governance and Administration Committee, which, obviously, has been kept quite busy from time to time, often does turn its mind to issues of that particular nature. But it\u2019s also important for the historical record and for archival purposes as well. So that\u2019s the second point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe third one is that in the context where surrogacy arrangements have been made, there is actually provision for some form of enforcement. Enforcement certainly provides for certainty, and I hope that there is never a need for enforcement, but it acknowledges in the member\u2019s bill that there may be situations and occasions from time to time where enforcement may be a necessary option and it may be needed. One such example that is cited in the member\u2019s bill is that where intending parents don\u2019t follow through, there is a requirement for child support to follow. So there are obligations and responsibilities that are contained within the member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ETo me, it\u2019s actually quite clear, and that is that New Zealand\u2019s current laws where it concerns surrogacy but also, more broadly, adoption are not currently fit for purpose, they are not modern, and they are not up to date. So I congratulate the member on bringing forward a bill that seeks to address those concerns: to make the legislation more fit for purpose, to make it more reflective of modern situations, and to make sure that it is up to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the current context, those prospective parents who wish to adopt in the adoption space must wait for the physical birth of the child before they can even commence the adoption process, let alone consider the various aspects of diversification within a family unit that that might lead to as well. If a surrogacy arrangement is in place, then in that circumstance the surrogate child born into that arrangement is, effectively, arriving into a situation where there are no initial rights or responsibilities in relation to the child. Even if the parties\u2014the parents and those that are the participants\u2014are in agreement, there is currently no opportunity in law for that to be considered. So it is such an important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear that there is a need to balance the rights and responsibilities of all parties and all participants: the child, the intending parents, and, of course, the birth mother. When I have a look at the bill, the bill itself will actually seek to amend a number of Acts\u2014five Acts and two sets of regulations\u2014but also it introduces a number of specific clauses, which I won\u2019t go through, that, obviously, give effect to what will occur in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EJust in conclusion, I do want to acknowledge that I understand that this will go to the Health Committee. I know that the Health Committee is a hard-working one, and I look forward to having that come before the committee and to work alongside colleagues. Again, I commend this bill to the House and, again, congratulate my colleague T\u0101mati Coffey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7582e99ba1b450f8dd02c98d5d728d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7582e99ba1b450f8dd02c98d5d728d7\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and it\u2019s a real pleasure to finally\u2014it feels like there\u2019s been a few attempts where I thought this bill was going to come up that didn\u2019t quite eventuate\u2014get to speak and offer the Green Party\u2019s support for this member\u2019s bill, the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill, in the name of T\u0101mati Coffey. And I too want to acknowledge Mr Coffey for getting this bill drawn\u2014it\u2019s a special moment in your experience in Parliament for that to happen\u2014but also the amount of detailed thinking that has gone into this piece of legislation; part of and the will of it from lived experience and connection to others who recognise the importance of this. I believe they\u2019re special moments when Parliament\u2019s considering matters from people\u2019s experience and members of our community, whose experiences are being brought into this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission recognises\u2014I think there\u2019s about 50 children every year; that is their best estimate because we don\u2019t actually know because there isn\u2019t a formal framework at the moment for surrogacy arrangements, but 50 children, they think at the moment, every year in this country, are born in a surrogacy arrangement. But we have no enforceable or formal arrangements around surrogacy, so this bill seeks to do that. I do want to acknowledge the intersection between this bill and the work that the Government initiated in 2020, asking the Law Commission to look into surrogacy arrangements, and the Law Commission has had a consultation period over options that they\u2019ve been considering, that closed in September last year, and we are expecting their report back this year. And the Greens will be looking at that really closely and are happy to support this bill, and hope that it aligns with the work of the Law Commission, because we don\u2019t want to undermine that really chunky piece of work, but also recognise that it\u2019s an opportunity to speed the implementation of what they may recommend, if the timing aligns with this bill, and that there are parts of this bill that go beyond what they were looking at that can be fruitfully examined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do need to say, too, that the Green Party\u2014in terms of where we sit at the moment, not having heard the detailed evidence or the commission\u2019s report back\u2014do tend to gravitate towards the option A of the Law Commission\u2019s Part 1 model, and that this bill is based more towards the option B. Our point around where we\u2019re leaning more towards A is our understanding in terms of international best practice of enabling the person who gives birth to be that parent at that point and then sign a declaration around confirming the transfer of parenting responsibilities. The reason for that is: one, just around recognising that role of giving birth, but, secondly, if in a terrible situation something went wrong, that there\u2019s a guaranteed parent. If those who are receiving the child actually decide that they\u2019re not going to go ahead with that, the child doesn\u2019t become parentless for any time in their life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo that is why we are, at this stage, leaning towards the option A, and we are really excited to be able to explore this finally, because I do want to re-emphasise the point made by the previous speaker around how overdue it is for us as a country to be looking at this and to be looking at adoption laws as well\u2014adoption laws 50 years out of date, at the time it was written, where we treated children as chattels. And it\u2019s quite revolting, in terms of the framing of that legislation. I do want to acknowledge the member for some of the really sensitive framing in this bill around some of the detail that seeks to acknowledge that right to knowledge of your biological information, as well as your whakapapa in the fullest sense, as well as trying to create certainty and care and support for everybody involved in this process. And that, for us, is what\u2019s at the heart of this, and we look forward to engaging on the select committee to get the details, to get the best result for our children and for birthing parents and for intended lifelong parents, out of this piece of legislation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00227c60819cf5414434b8515b06301f6b4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c60819cf5414434b8515b06301f6b4b\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the chance to make a contribution on this bill. If I could be a little bold, just to start my contribution, given the contribution of my colleague Tangi Utikere, I\u2019d also like to note to the member T\u0101mati Coffey my congratulations, and also that I, too, given his comments to Tangi, haven\u2019t had a member\u2019s bill drawn. So hopefully that will spur some sort of chain reaction. Let\u2019s see how that goes. But anyhow, I digress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMy congratulations to my colleague T\u0101mati Coffey are very sincere, and it does feel like this bill has taken a wee while to sort of come to fruition, so the member who has just resumed her seat, Jan Logie, certainly hasn\u2019t imagined that. It feels like over a matter of several weeks that we\u2019ve been preparing to talk to this bill, so I can only imagine how excited the member whose name is on this bill feels tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EModern families are increasingly diverse, and it\u2019s vital and incredibly sensible that our legislation simply recognises that and that it facilitates and supports loving wh\u0101nau and all of the various ways in which they\u2019re made up. This bill, the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill, is, in fact, a modern bill for a modern family, and it\u2019s also importantly closely aligned to this Labour Government\u2019s broader commitment to children and our commitment to families. It\u2019s a commitment that\u2019s expressed and has been implemented in various ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOne of our election commitments, which we take very seriously, was to review the adoption laws and, in particular, to have a keen eye at removing any kind of discriminatory sort of provisions. In June last year, the Minister of Justice announced that he and his department are delivering the suite of legislation, including this bill, that will ensure that we also deliver the latter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIn recent years, it has been simultaneously\u2014I was going to say \u201Csad\u201D, but let\u2019s say \u201Cmoving\u201D\u2014moving, and, importantly, quite heart-warming to read and to hear of the very personal stories shared by my colleague T\u0101mati Coffey with regard to his own wh\u0101nau, and also to hear the personal stories and the experiences of the Harris family and that of Christian Newman and his husband, Mark Edwards. I note tonight in making this contribution that their experiences really are the genesis for this bill. Each of those experiences have, in their very different ways, highlighted some pretty obvious flaws in our adoption and our surrogacy system, and those flaws affect a wide range of people and wh\u0101nau. But fortunately, the good news is that those experiences also reveal, in a pretty meaningful way, I think, the things that we need to do to illuminate a sensible sort of path forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to acknowledge and confirm the Kiwis\u2014I think it was tens of thousands\u2014who signed a petition to this end at the end of 2019. I\u2019m sure that they\u2019ll be absolutely delighted to see the introduction of this bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe birth of a child is one of the most special events in family life for a lot of people, but it is never stress-free, and it\u2019s especially true for those who face difficulties or who can\u2019t conceive a child of their own. The law governing surrogacy in New Zealand certainly doesn\u2019t help. I think my colleague Tangi Utikere has run through several examples, so I won\u2019t say those again, but it\u2019s really clear that when you look at the legislation and the arrangements in place, that it just places really unnecessary burdens on both the surrogate mother and the intending parents. I think there were a couple of quotes at the time when this bill was drawn, alluding to the fact that it really amounted to people having to jump through unnecessary hoops and to experience a very different experience than most people would assume was fair and reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESo this legislation is an important step forward to easing those burdens so that families can simply focus on what\u2019s important, and that\u2019s each other and doing the best by each other. So I\u2019m pleased that this bill is receiving broad support from across the House. I\u2019d again like to congratulate my friend and colleague T\u0101mati Coffey. I\u2019m trying not to sort of go into a string of puns about the conception of this bill and how we\u2019ll be looking forward to nurturing it through probably only a trimester of readings and, hopefully, in a few months\u2019 time adopting it as law, but that does sort of capture the sentiment. I look forward to hearing from the submissions as a member of the Health Committee, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022499ba4c1ee514d89bcceacf6624b14c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022499ba4c1ee514d89bcceacf6624b14c7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022374fc6c32f5140c3bff0d34718230d29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022374fc6c32f5140c3bff0d34718230d29\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party today in support of the first reading of the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill. I want to commend my colleague T\u0101mati Coffey for bringing this important bill to the House. ACT offered our 10 votes in support to bypass the ballot process because we did believe that our laws around surrogacy do need modernising. And as luck would have it, T\u0101mati Coffey has been lucky enough to have his bill drawn from the ballot and not requiring those votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re one step closer by having this reading to modernising our laws for a modern New Zealand. This bill will simplify surrogacy arrangements and ensure the completeness of birth certificate information for New Zealanders whose child is delivered via surrogacy. Our job as politicians is to create laws that make life better and easier for New Zealanders. This law change would simplify those surrogacy laws and make the process of having a child via surrogacy easier, and that can only be a good thing for modern New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EChildren are wonderful. I love the curiosity of children, as their minds work a million miles to figure out the big wide world around them. I often walk through Cornwall Park, which is near where I live, and I see families with their children all the time playing in the park, dads teaching their kids how to ride a bike and how to fly a kite, and we see mums pointing out the cows and sheep and seeing their children\u2019s eyes wide with amazement. There are so many firsts that parents love to see their children have. And many, many people dream of having those options for themselves in the future. Options of starting their own family and seeing them bring a new life into the world that will grow up and become good citizens of New Zealand, wondering what on earth their children might do with their lives. I think it\u2019s beautiful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFor many New Zealanders, it\u2019s as easy as that. They want to have a child, and they do. But for others, they seek more alternatives because it\u2019s not as straightforward. And for myself, I\u2019m personally going through egg freezing because I know in the future that I may need IVF. And so that\u2019s an option that I would like to have for myself, because many New Zealanders know that IVF gives them more chances to have a child in the future, and similarly with surrogacy. Surrogacy allows people who may have difficulties to have a child and have no other option, to have that option of bringing new life into the world. I think it\u2019s wonderful, and I think it\u2019s great that our new laws should reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut the law currently is not very simple or clear, and this bill clarifies a few things\u2014that is, that a couple could pay actual and reasonable expenses for somebody going through the process of carrying that child for them; you know, somebody who\u2019s given up their time and their energy, and their body, to carry that baby. I think our laws should reflect that a person should be able to pay the costs that go into that. It creates a register for matching people who wish to put themselves forward to be a surrogate, and I think that\u2019s wonderful too, because, many times, people reach out to their family and they can\u2019t find somebody\u2014they reach out to their friends, and they can\u2019t find somebody, so they go online and they try to find people through forums who might give up their time and their body. But having a register of people who are willing and able would simplify that process. It also ensures that the person who is the intended parent could be on the birth certificate at birth, to make sure that in those first days and weeks of that new child\u2019s life, they\u2019re not having to go through those legal hurdles and worry about the implications of getting that right or wrong, when they\u2019re just wanting to spend time with their newborn child. I think that\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis is a complex ethical and legal area. The ACT Party supports modernising our surrogacy laws and looks forward to seeing the work that the Health Committee will do. But we also know that the Law Commission is looking into this law, so we look forward to seeing the scrutiny of this bill versus the Law Commission\u2019s reports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party commends this bill to the House for the first reading because we believe that our laws do need to be modernised. Many New Zealanders struggle with fertility; our laws should make that process easier for people, and we look forward to working constructively on this law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3719272f47046fbb5b282816833207b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3719272f47046fbb5b282816833207b\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Mr Speaker. I rise with pleasure this afternoon to speak on the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill, which has been brought here by my friend and colleague Mr T\u0101mati Coffey. I\u2019d like to congratulate and commend him for bringing this bill forward to the House. We\u2019ve heard from many of the previous speakers about the importance of this bill. I just wanted to highlight that the petition that was brought to Parliament in 2019 had on it 32,239 online signatures that recognised that this law should be changed, because it does need to be simplified. At the moment, we need to update the legislation in order to balance the needs and rights of both the expecting, intending parents, the surrogate themselves, and, of course, the child. This bill is designed to simplify those arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003ECurrently in New Zealand, the law doesn\u2019t actually give any automatic rights to what the law describes as the \u201Cintending parents\u201D. So, when born, the child\u2019s parents, in law, are the surrogate and their partner, and the intending parents then need to go through the full and dense adoption process. The child itself may have come from the implanted embryo that was made, if you will, from the intending parents\u2019 egg and sperm and it may bear no genetic similarity to the surrogate, but still the intending parents are not regarded as the parents until they have gone through that full adoption process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Coffey, in his first reading speech, did say that this is not a gay issue, and it\u2019s not. It\u2019s not a straight issue either. There are a multitude of reasons why a person might seek the support of a surrogate. The reasons for infertility, for example, are many, and are often the cause of great distress. Having worked, myself, with people who are experiencing loss after sad loss in their attempt to complete their family, I\u2019ve seen the benefits that the use of a surrogate can bring. Some women may not have a uterus; for some, pregnancy might be dangerous; or, yes, like my colleague Mr Coffey and his husband, they may be a same-sex couple who seek the support of a surrogate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003ETo be a surrogate is, in my view, an extraordinarily altruistic thing to do for somebody else. I can\u2019t say, with all honesty, that it\u2019 something that I could do myself, so I stand in awe of those who do, because as a surrogate you really are putting someone else\u2019s needs before your own. Even if you experience a completely uncomplicated pregnancy in birth, you\u2019re going to be experiencing challenges, you\u2019re going to be experiencing physical and emotional challenges, and that is really for the benefit of somebody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003ESo surrogates will know that some of those challenges are unavoidable, but one of the challenges that I feel should be preventable is the financial challenges that might come from actually carrying a child and giving birth. Personal, reasonable, and actual expenses in this bill are to be covered. This isn\u2019t the same as being paid to be a surrogate. I think that all of us can quickly see that paying somebody to be a surrogate, in itself, could open a whole new can of worms, but also that it\u2019s completely reasonable and fair to cover actual expenses. I\u2019m thinking back to my own pregnancies; I probably would\u2019ve needed some financial support for my Russian fudge cravings that I experienced in both pregnancies! But also, more reasonably, things like if the pregnant person needs to pay for additional scans, if they need new clothes to fit their changing body, transport to appointments, and there are many things, I don\u2019t really feel that it\u2019s fair for them to be paid for by the surrogate themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EBut we do need to have this conversation; it does seem fair and sensible at first glance. I\u2019m really looking forward to this bill coming to the Health Committee, ably chaired by my colleague Tangi Utikere. I commend Mr Coffey for bringing it to the House. I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dee1449839bd4a03b62edca4a5da15ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dee1449839bd4a03b62edca4a5da15ae\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand here and to listen to people\u2019s personal stories, and for this piece of legislation to actually be about people\u2019s lives. So thank you for those who have shared personal stories, have shared their own experiences, and have shared the challenges that they are facing and that they may face when it comes to surrogacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to speak in favour this evening of the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill. I really want to talk about this bill being about enabling, it being a bill about empowering people. It\u2019s a bill, as we\u2019ve talked and heard about already this evening, that is looking at the 21st century\u20142022. The ways that families are formed in 2022 are quite different to the good old, or the bad old, or the whatever old 1950s, or before\u2014was it 2.1 children and a mum and dad? And there\u2019s so many different variations of what families look like today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI guess I stand here as someone in that category who hasn\u2019t gone through the surrogacy process. My husband and I have talked about it but haven\u2019t really landed on whether that\u2019s something we want to do. But, in terms of being a foster parent, and through the Oranga Tamariki system, for years now, having young people who are my family who are now growing up and having their own families, it\u2019s always a weird look. I know; I look so young and fit! But when a youngie in the supermarket says, \u201CKoro Glen\u201D, and everyone looks and thinks \u201CGlen, you\u2019re far too young for that.\u201D But, actually, it is a makeup of family that is different to what was the norm back in the 1950s or 1940s or 1930s; we\u2019re in the 21st century. So this bill is around recognising families and how they can be formed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EA colleague of mine actually asked one of their friends, who is looking into surrogacy, and said, \u201CWhat is it you\u2019d want shared tonight if you could have a say?\u201D The first thing they said was: \u201CCatch up New Zealand, come on. Let\u2019s just get on with it. Let\u2019s catch up. Let\u2019s keep moving.\u201D But they also talked about the fact that the bill, again, is around enabling and empowering. Here\u2019s a few things that they said: \u201CI\u2019ve never personally felt more disempowered by something.\u201D\u2014in the process they\u2019re going through at the moment. They also talked about that you\u2019re making intending parents, basically, prove their fitness to be a parent. For many families that conceive in more ordinary ways, there\u2019s never a question or a conversation around \u201CAre they fit to be a parent, is it the right financial position right now to be a parent?\u201D So the fact that we\u2019re normalising and we\u2019re bringing surrogacy into the 21st century is very much around protecting people and making people feel empowered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe also went on to say that the power imbalance across the whole surrogacy process was really hard, that the power imbalance was tough for them, and is tough for them as they go through that process. So we want to tautoko those out there who are looking, who are exploring this space\u2014as my colleague Sarah Pallet said, to acknowledge and thank those who choose to put themselves in a place where they are a surrogate, where they carry a child for someone else. What a gift that is; what a sacrifice that is. So as we move through the stages of this legislation, hopefully we can celebrate what others are doing, in terms of giving back and sharing with others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo to T\u0101mati Coffey, thank you for your work. I don\u2019t thank your work getting out of the biscuit tin because that is chance, let\u2019s be honest, but your work in creating and developing this piece of legislation, and, obviously, having the foresight of your own personal journey but then sharing in the journeys of others around Aotearoa when it comes to surrogacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo I support this piece of legislation. I am not on the Health Committee\u2014as much as I\u2019d love to be, it feels like everyone in this room is\u2014but I look forward to following and tracking, actually, with submissions and hearing people\u2019s lived stories, lived experiences around this. I\u2019m in support and I want to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u00221f1de8e1b7fc48238a4fd4117189d961\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f1de8e1b7fc48238a4fd4117189d961\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the National Party in support of the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill. Like every other speaker this evening, I would also like to offer my congratulations to T\u0101mati Coffey\u2014not only for having your bill drawn but, I think, to you and your husband, Tim, for going through the process of bringing a wee boy into the world in this way, and may that bring you all the joy in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is like other speakers have canvassed. You know, it\u2019s so good to see proposed changes that update and modernise laws to fit modern society. This is going to be a curlier one, I think, for the select committee to deal with. It is a complicated proposal to amend, I think, five Acts and two sets of regulations\u2014all in all, about 32 clauses\u2014but let\u2019s not be put off by that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EA number of speakers this evening have talked to the streamlining of surrogacy arrangements, but I\u2019d actually like to focus my contribution on the slightly less canvassed component of the bill, and that\u2019s Part 1, which amends the Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Act\u2014or, as we call it, HART.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThis amendment will mean a law change that will allow for fair and reasonable compensation for sperm and egg donors for their time and expenses. I think that this is really important, and I personally would really like to see the select committee pay particular attention to this. We have a huge shortage in this country of people willing to donate sperm and eggs because, I think, of the significant time and costs of doing so. Like Brooke van Velden alluded to, I also know for a fact that having your eggs harvested and frozen is a $15,000 process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIn 2021, Fertility Associates reported they had just 39 sperm donors registered and 41 egg donors registered. This is to try and assist the fertility needs of hundreds of New Zealand couples seeking treatment these days. There are around 400 women alone waiting on a list for sperm donors and 160 waiting for egg donors. I think that these miniscule numbers of donors is quite clearly related to the lack of ability to compensate for those costs, for that time off work, for travel time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EAs the current law stands, I think as much as a petrol voucher is in breach of the law, we are also so far behind other countries and other jurisdictions in this space. In the US, most egg donor patients will be recompensed about US$5,000. For the UK and Australia, it\u2019s similar\u2014in the UK, donors can get up to about \u00A3750, and Australian fertility clinics are offering about A$5,000. I think that, in doing this, these countries have vastly improved the supply of gametes available to couples and/or people who desperately need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI just want to be really clear, though, that this bill, and the comments I\u2019m making, in no way are seeking to create any form of industry \u201Cfor profit\u201D. It\u2019s simply seeking to allow for fair and reasonable costs to be covered, so as to encourage the donors to come forward for those couples\u2014be they gay, be they single, be they infertile\u2014who desperately need that kind of support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo just to wrap up this evening, it seems that the current, strict prohibition is what is directly contributing to those very long waiting times and those very long waiting lists. I very much look forward to hearing the select committee inquiry and report back, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022906af09687b24d2d929c4958e4aede67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022906af09687b24d2d929c4958e4aede67\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It really is my privilege this evening to speak on the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill, a particular bill that is put forward by my very good friend of a few decades T\u0101mati Coffey. I\u2019ve been able to watch his journey to be married to his wonderful husband and to have our very beautiful nephew that\u2019s a part of our lives within the Labour Party. But this bill is designed to simplify surrogacy arrangements, ensure completeness of birth certificate information, and provide a mechanism for enforcing surrogacy arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EOnly a few weeks ago, I turned 40. Yes, the big four-oh. And once I got to that age\u2014unfortunately, as I turned 40, I tested positive for COVID 19\u2014I had a lot of reflection time in self-isolation. One of the things that caught up with me was thinking about future generations, but thinking about the possibility if at some point, turning 40\u2014probably I needed to make a decision soon about having children. Not only just for myself but the other thing that I think of within my wider wh\u0101nau is the importance of continuing whakapapa, or our genealogical lines, between my family and our family in M\u014Dkai P\u0101tea. But there\u2019s some challenges in front of me that this particular bill, I guess, aims to address, to work through, to deconstruct, and to repack into modern legislation. So I consider myself, I guess, an end user and so I\u2019ll take particular interest in this piece of legislation and how, in fact, it\u2019s going to affect some of the decisions that I make moving forward and the decisions for my wider family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a privilege to be the deputy chair of the Petitions Committee. We do a lot of work and I acknowledge those members in the House that are part of that select committee. But when you see a petition that comes through\u2014and we see many\u2014one of 32,000 signatures is significant. We\u2019ve seen large-scale signatures like this one in things like banning conversion practice and some of the other work that we have done, but this is a lofty amount of New Zealanders in Aotearoa that want to see change in this outdated law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EWe support this bill, because we understand that New Zealand\u2019s existing laws around surrogacy and adoption are not up to date and are in need of modernisation to bring them into the 21st century. The evidence of this can be seen, as I mentioned, in the petition that was presented to Parliament in 2019. Currently, prospective parents must await the birth of their child before beginning the process of adoption, and the child of a surrogacy arrangement is born into a situation where his or her or their social or caregiving parents may have no legal responsibilities and rights in relation to the child. And one of the challenges that is before me is that while I can contribute to a child being made at birth, there\u2019s a few steps that I would have to go through to be the legal father. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThe Government has asked the Law Commission to conduct a review of surrogacy laws in New Zealand and they are expected to report back on their findings in the first half of 2022. I really look forward to those findings, because they will address significant pieces that the member T\u0101mati Coffey has acknowledged in this first piece of legislation. When I look across the areas that I\u2019m involved in\u2014in petitions, in M\u0101ori caucus, M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and as Labour\u2019s chair of the Rainbow Caucus Committee\u2014this particular piece of legislation is important in all of my professional and political roles. But, more important, it is a piece of legislation that will impact my life and my family\u2019s life and our future generations. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224410a83353484ef290a0a464779d4d7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224410a83353484ef290a0a464779d4d7d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call T\u0101mati Coffey in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba9ebb7f36fd48c8b77ef0afa8d3d0c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba9ebb7f36fd48c8b77ef0afa8d3d0c3\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Lived experience is everything. And as I stand here, having listened to all of the speeches from around the House, I do get emotional, because this is a journey that I\u2019ve been on for quite some time. When I think about our experience, I think about our surrogate that helped us get to this place, I think about her family that said, \u201CAre you bonkers?\u201D when she said to them that she was going to be doing it. But, actually, just sitting here, my colleagues right down in front of me both started talking about their mokopuna. They started pulling out the little phones, because that\u2019s what this bill does, it actually encourages people to think about children, think about their grandchildren, their mokopuna, their moko tuarua. This is a bill that will help Kiwi families to grow, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s so special. And can I thank every party in this House for their support on what isn\u2019t a gay issue, as my colleague said; this is a New Zealand issue, this is a family issue, this is a wh\u0101nau issue. This is about making mokopuna decisions\u2014that\u2019s what we say back home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to talk quickly about the New Zealand Law Commission mahi that they have done. I understand that that is sitting with the Minister, and it will be made public very soon. I look forward to looking through that report, like many members of this House, to see exactly what they\u2019ve managed to do, remembering that this bill was dreamt up by both Louisa Wall MP and myself, and we decided at the time that we\u2019d try and peel off a few things that we could contain inside a member\u2019s bill, knowing that there was a lot more work that needed to be done. And I want to thank the Law Commission for the work that they\u2019ve done\u2014their deep dive\u2014I look forward to reading that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis bill is going off to the Health Committee, and there have been a few questions raised as to whether or not that was the appropriate committee. We chose to send it to the Health Committee because this is a health issue. I wanted to take it away from previous conversations where, in this House, issues such as abortion, talking about women\u2019s bodies, have been viewed historically by this House as a justice issue, as a law and order issue, and I don\u2019t believe that that\u2019s the right place for it. I believe that this is a health issue, this is a women\u2019s issue, and we need to talk about it with the right framework, so therefore it\u2019s going to the Health Committee. I believe it\u2019s the right place to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to thank Christian Newman for putting the pressure on way back in 2019, in October, when he brought the petition, 32,000 people signed it. And last night, I was on the phone to him, saying, \u201CWe\u2019re going to get there.\u201D And he was saying, \u201CT\u0101mati, it\u2019s 2022. How long does it take in that place?\u201D And I said, \u201CIt takes a little bit of time for some things to make it through the process.\u201D, but we are here right now. I want to thank the New Zealand Labour Party. It is my party, and in 2020 it was put into the manifesto: a commitment to surrogacy. And I want to thank Andrew Little in his role as the Minister of Justice in the last Parliament where, in his role, he made sure that the Law Commission did do their report. It\u2019s an issue that I\u2019ve felt passionate about, and I\u2019m glad that our party have been there to help champion it along the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the science that\u2019s involved is surrogacy and shout-out to all of our scientists out there who make this happen. Right now, there are 13 embryos sitting in a freezer in Hamilton somewhere that belong to me and my partner, Tim. And the wonder of science and the miracle of science and the advance of science is one of the reasons that we\u2019re here right now\u2014as my colleague said before\u2014trying to catch up with the law. And, thankfully, this law is going to be able to do that. So thank you to our scientists, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EA biological parent should never have to adopt their own child\u2014I\u2019ll say it again: a biological parent should never have to adopt their own child. And when we had to go through that, that was painful, because we were standing in a court of New Zealand law, knowing that this was the system and that, as the biological father, we were standing there having to go through this insane, archaic process where we had to adopt our own biological child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo this bill is for all of the beautiful children that have been born as a result of a surrogacy arrangement, this bill is for all of these surrogates that have thanklessly but beautifully given over themselves to be able to help other families grow, but, most of all, this bill is an acknowledgment of all of those families out there that have been able to grow because of surrogacy arrangement. Modern laws for modern families is what we\u2019re trying to achieve here. I look forward to championing this through the select committee process. It\u2019s going to be a journey and I\u2019m up for it. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022321685ab5f7d42ca81501bd834a9d47c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022321685ab5f7d42ca81501bd834a9d47c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Improving Arrangements for Surrogacy Bill be considered by the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022059859305b7b476c9eb0e37514ee5ed7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022059859305b7b476c9eb0e37514ee5ed7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, it\u2019s come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.56 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f7a438defb840c1a220e4dddbfcd2c4\u0022\u003ECriminal Proceeds (Recovery) (Definition of Significant Criminal Activity) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244cbdb8aff02420a91ba7e11da495b28\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002261bc0657de4a486d8f7050c82d02702f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261bc0657de4a486d8f7050c82d02702f\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) (Definition of Significant Criminal Activity) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe need to have this bill. We need to have it in place, and the reason why is because crime is totally out of control in New Zealand. The reason why crime is totally out of control is because we have a Government that is soft on gangs, soft on punishment, and soft on answers. Five years\u2014five years\u2014they\u2019ve been in Government, and law and order at the moment is at its worst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe Commissioner of Police wants to police by consent and the gangs are taking full advantage of that, and while policing by consent actually does nothing for the victims of crime, we are now producing the next generation of ram raid kids. They should be at school, learning an education, not out on the streets, learning how to be criminals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut the big problem that\u2019s facing us now is the serious gun crime\u2014serious gun crime committed by unlicensed, unconcerned, unrepentant drug-fuelled thugs. Did the firearms confiscation make us safer? No. It targeted those that obeyed the law. It didn\u2019t get the guns off the streets. It took 60,000 firearms from the police-approved, secure safes, and how many gang members handed in their guns? How many contributed to the 60,000 that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238633194721347bcb2007a12c4302149\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s where they get their guns from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eba83b80a714d758d494737cd85a16c\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014were voluntarily handed in? One\u2014one gang member, one firearm, Minister Nash. It was doomed to fail the safer communities goal from the start, because it targeted the wrong people. The Government failed New Zealand, and they double down on legislation that\u2019s continuing to fail New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMy bill is designed to assist police with meeting realistic and achievable forfeiture thresholds. It\u2019s designed to hit the gangs where it hurts\u2014in their pockets\u2014and let me tell you why. It\u2019s because we\u2019ve chosen the path of asset seizure. Studies have shown that sending gang members to jail is like sending kids to a candy store\u2014it\u2019s one of their favourite places to be, because they can recruit more members there. The studies also show that domestic violence within families that come from gang-affiliated homes is often serious violent harm, so the threat of losing one\u2019s family doesn\u2019t even appear to have that much effect, either. But the moment you talk about taking away their bling, their assets, well then\u2014just like we do with the Labour Party\u2014you hit a nerve. To them, money brings status, it brings power, and it brings envy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ECurrently, police have criteria to meet in order to freeze and seize assets, and this includes meeting thresholds within section 6(1) of the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 as to what makes a significant criminal activity. Not only does the offending have to consist of one or more offences but it must be punishable by five years or more in prison, and police must prove that the property, proceeds, or the benefits to the activity actually amount to $30,000 or more. Now, the police have told me that they actually wait until they know the assets are at a value of over $100,000 before they apply, because having to prove the $30,000 value of ill-gotten assets can be difficult, especially when section 6(3) excludes any expenses or outgoings used in connection with criminal activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe can make it easier and fruitful for police. All of us are familiar with the headlines that we hear and we read in the news when police raid a criminal\u2019s premises. What do they find? Three things: drugs, cash, and guns. This bill will make the finding of an illegally held firearm a new threshold to freeze and seize assets. It\u2019s designed to hit the gangs where it hurts\u2014in their pockets. It\u2019s to deter the use of illegally held firearms. It\u2019s about holding gangs and criminals to account, and making sure there is a price to pay for having a firearm without a licence but with criminal intent\u2014that is a place where significant criminal activity occurs. It\u2019s about giving police another tool\u2014a real tool, an effective tool\u2014to go after the gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat sorts of figures are we talking here? Well, in the five years between 2017 and 2021, the seized assets valued $626,360,911. It was made up of some very big asset seizures, including $123 million in 2019, and $220 million in 2020\u2014$626 million over five years\u2014and yet this Government budgeted only $95 million to fight organised crime, but they\u2019ll put $200 million for setting up a registry for firearms that the gangs and criminals will have absolutely no intention of using. Only Labour wastes money like this during a cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENot only that, the Government often claims that they\u2019ve taken all this money from the gangs, but statistics tell us a different story. Nearly $500 million of the $626 million\u2014that\u2019s nearly half a billion dollars\u2014that was recovered actually came from white-collar criminals, not from the gangs. This money should be used to fight the gangs, not fund them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill is an opportunity for the Government to actually do what they claimed that they would do when they used our line and said that they wanted to hit the gangs where it hurts\u2014in their pockets. I expect that the Government will say that they\u2019ve got their own ideas, they\u2019ve got their own criminal proceeds and recovery bill, and they\u2019ve got their own firearms prohibition orders, because to them, it\u2019s about the politics, not the people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut I must say, with all due respect, that if you don\u2019t understand the problem, how can you actually fix it? This Government has so far wasted their five years and hundreds of millions of taxpayers\u2019 dollars on what should be used on service to our communities. By failing them, which you\u2019ve done now when it comes to law and order, you\u2019ve wasted the money. Going after licensed firearms owners has also wasted taxpayer time and money. It\u2019s caused anger and distrust from nearly a quarter of a million people towards the Government and the police. Relationships built over decades were destroyed in weeks because the target chosen was the easy, law-abiding one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s time to grow some there, Labour, and tell the gangs and their criminals that there is no place for their destructive activities in our neighbourhoods. We want thriving communities, not scared ones. Support our small businesses, Labour, our retailers\u2014those trying so hard to make a living, but who are under constant violent attacks, which is threatening what needs to be a healthy economy as we push our heads above the COVID parapet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EPolice have publicly acknowledged that they are finding more and more illegally held firearms at their raids, and we are all concerned about public and front-line police safety. Illegal firearm use is most certainly gang-fuelled. There is a lot to do with retaliation, or utu. It involves drugs, it involves violence, it involves money, and it\u2019s involving our women and our kids. Give that some consequence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOne thing we can do with my bill is to make it financially painful to be caught in the illegal possession of a firearm when undertaking organised crime activities. I recall recently the \u201Ctwo Jareds\u201D\u2014that\u2019s Jared Savage and Jarrod Gilbert. They wrote an excellent article detailing that one piece of legislation alone would not fix an intergenerational problem, a problem made worse by drugs. Well, ACT are committed to law and order, and we\u2019re not going to stop here. Tony Severin has a rehabilitation bill in the ballot box that will ensure that prisoners are released on parole after they\u2019ve completed a rehabilitation programme. We have a policy on intergenerational welfare use, and with ram raids, we certainly need to bring back the charter schools and have them re-established. We will align our police numbers to population growth to stop them from being a political football\u2014as we first said\u2014and we have a stack of other good ideas to rebuild our communities and have them thriving again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis is Labour\u2019s opportunity to actually get guns off the streets, not from police-approved, secure homes. Target the right people and make better use of taxpayer money during a cost of living crisis. Can they walk the talk and commit to truly focusing on the real perpetrators of gun crime? I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1f0355c5a5c4ec3bdc39063d9ad6f92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1f0355c5a5c4ec3bdc39063d9ad6f92\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002275c2b96a5df5405fa311f782cd9e08b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275c2b96a5df5405fa311f782cd9e08b6\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 (CPRA) enables the restraint and forfeiture of any property in New Zealand that is derived from significant criminal offending. To initiate restraint and forfeiture under the CPRA requires a person to have engaged in activities that consist of an offence punishable by a maximum of five years imprisonment or more, or have led to the person acquiring property assets or benefits of a value of $30,000 or more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe member\u2019s bill proposes amending the CPRA to also enable restraint and forfeiture where a person has committed any criminal offence that occurs at a place where \u201C4(1)(b)(i) there are prohibited firearms or firearms that are possessed unlawfully; and (ii) a person is present who is a member of a gang or organised criminal group.\u201D The bill would result in only a very small number of additional proceedings being taken under this amendment bill and would not significantly disrupt criminal behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe member\u2019s bill also creates a number of issues. It does not provide definitions of some of the critical terminology needed to implement the bill, such as defining membership of an organised criminal group. This would make the process for seizing criminal assets more challenging and time consuming, as police would need to prove gang or organised crime group membership every time the proposed amendment was used. There have been suggestions the national gang list could be used to do this. The list, as I\u2019ve said many times, is an internal intelligence tool and was not designed to meet the standards required by the court to prove an individual is a member of a particular gang.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe member\u2019s bill focuses on people with firearms; however, CPRA already allows police to seize assets derived from the trafficking of firearms or other illegal firearm activity. In addition, the Search and Surveillance Act 2012 already allows the police to seize and dispose of firearms that are possessed unlawfully in breach of the Arms Act 1983.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EGangs destroy lives, and this Government is focused on targeting gangs and organised crime. We have never been more active in cracking down on gangs and organised crime and getting gang leaders off our streets. This Government is investing in police to support them in their efforts to tackle gang activity and gun crime. This is why this Government is investing $94 million into tackling gangs and organised crime in this year\u2019s Budget, and why the Government\u2019s Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Bill is currently being considered by the Justice Committee. The Police are committed to targeting the offenders who do the most harm in our communities and to making New Zealand the hardest country in the world for organised criminal groups to do business. Our focus is on strong enforcement, while also working with communities to put in place smart prevention by addressing the social factors that lead to people joining gangs in the first place. We are pursuing amendments to the CPRA to strengthen the targeting of assets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9fa3a89e7864355861f7360606e3f3b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I appreciate that the Minister is giving wide context to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47d64090c784526bb66e6f6d44e1494\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6111165b65f4faa8b0113829ac229b7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t finished\u2014is giving wide context to this bill; however, it is a first reading of a member\u2019s bill, and I invite the Minister to pay closer attention to that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f965b86d9c4545b18fb30074909d08b5\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t have much more to say in terms of the member\u2019s bill. Just to say that we conclude by addressing the fact that there are a number of significant issues with the proposed amendment in the bill and the assumptions that underpin it, particularly with regards to how we define an organised crime group. So in conclusion, we are unable to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd828869077c4241ac31668458416215\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd828869077c4241ac31668458416215\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, that says it all, doesn\u2019t it? You\u2019ve got the Minister of Police in the House, who stands and can barely squeeze out a four-minute speech in relation to a bill that, actually, will go a long way to supporting the staff that she purports to stand in this House and support every day. And I want to acknowledge the member Nicole McKee; this is a good bill. We\u2019ve had a 40 percent increase in gang numbers in this country over the last four years. We\u2019ve had a 21 percent increase in violent crime. We\u2019ve got gang members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263beb872234a466a8af3ca81d7b3d7a0\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Who put a freeze on police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e05ba33a62544245a9f7c6f46a4cb780\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the member saying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e790087c6d7740ea9506684881848f6c\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Who put a freeze on police numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e59ddf13014196b60883558921394d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Who put a freeze on police numbers? Well, maybe the member could stand and take a call on this and explain to us why you\u2019re not going to give the Police a power that they need to start taking weapons out of the gangs\u2019 hands, because I\u2019ve got very, very bad news for that member: under her Government, under this Labour Government, New Zealanders are seeing a proliferation of gang members, they\u2019re seeing a proliferation of firearms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87bfb3e8a5d49ee9aa5efe58184e3ae\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do beg your pardon. It is well known in this House that interjections are to be rare and reasonable, and a barrage of shouting is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229433270822ac4161900db673fe9dffe9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: And just in response to that member, tomorrow I have Diane Hunt arriving in our capital city. She\u2019s the mother of Matthew Hunt, who was shot and killed in broad daylight in the streets of West Auckland by a gang member with a high-powered military rifle\u2014an illegal rifle. His partner, David Goldfinch, a father of two, barely escaped with his life and will have serious injuries that will follow him through the rest of it. So I don\u2019t need to be harped at and lectured by the Labour Party when a member brings a bill to this House that would actually give the Police the powers that they need to be able to take the type of weapons that Eli Epiha was carrying on the street that day when he shot and killed Matthew Hunt and shot and wounded David Goldfinch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis is a serious bill, and I don\u2019t appreciate the Labour Ministers treating it as if it isn\u2019t. It\u2019s a bill that actually gives our police officers the ability to go to an address to search it, and if there\u2019s an illegal firearm there, they can start seizing assets. And I\u2019ll tell you what: if you want to make a real difference, the feedback that I\u2019ve had from serving officers\u2014from detective inspectors through to detectives on the front lines, the people that are actually doing the work, the people that are out there in the middle of the night, having to kick doors in and trying to police and trying to make our communities safer\u2014is this is a good bill, because what gives them the real power to start to deal with these gangs\u2014and, by the way, the Labour Party think they can cuddle up to the gangs. Let me tell you something: the gangs think that you\u2019re a joke. They\u2019re not listening to anything that you say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESoft on crime\u2014to actually call this Government soft on crime almost feels too nice. It shouldn\u2019t be \u201Csoft\u201D; it should be \u201Cmushy\u201D, or something else, because under this Government, we\u2019ve seen a massive growth in gang numbers, we\u2019ve seen a massive increase in assaults on police, we\u2019ve seen terrible assaults on members of the public in broad daylight, by gangs that are emboldened and think that they can operate with impunity, and we see firearm incidents every day\u2014and I\u2019m sorry, but, tonight, there was an incident with a gang that shot into a family home where a child was almost hit. That\u2019s happening daily. And the Minister comes to this House and she makes some innocuous points that aren\u2019t relevant to the bill at all, the Speaker has to draw her back to the bill, and then she goes, \u201COh, well, I\u2019ve really got nothing more to add.\u201D, and leaves\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205f7bd7b8c6a4171a3399b16fc125d50\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is not to bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2cf13e409844769f96509de50f891f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014and then leaves the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299b89402846947b58fe5be7997a55312\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member does know and has realised that he does not refer to a member\u2019s absence. I don\u2019t want to have to get to my feet every two minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267eaeb48e02d46f888485575f2fba0a3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party is going to vote this bill down tonight. They probably won\u2019t support the petition of Diane Hunt tomorrow, either, for her son Matthew. They\u2019re trying to scrap the three strikes legislation. At some time they\u2019re going to have to wake up and they\u2019re going to have to realise\u2014stop with all the nice platitudes\u2014the Police actually need some genuine support. They\u2019re trying to do their job with one hand tied behind their back. The Minister referred to the firearms prohibition order\u2014it\u2019s a toothless tiger. It\u2019s got no warrantless search power in it. So how are the Police supposed to take the guns out of gangs\u2019 hands, when they can\u2019t stop them and search them? Wake up. On the select committee we had two senior officers from the Police National Headquarters turn up, and they couldn\u2019t agree with each other on whether or not section 18 was going to give the powers that it needed. This Government actually needs to wake up and needs to actually start doing something real and tangible to deal with the gang situation in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00229851100c5cd340099de637ccf300b830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229851100c5cd340099de637ccf300b830\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The one thing, as a former Minister of Police, that I think is abhorrent is, first of all, Mitch, you\u2019re better than making politics out of Matt Hunt\u2019s death. That was an absolute tragedy, and every single police officer that goes out there, every single day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222317b8a356a04ac7953d3b62b44af733\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Madam Speaker. I am going to take\u2014sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede48e90302940e5bb098e1b36510d61\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I hadn\u2019t finished speaking. The Hon Mark Mitchell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f17f5da6ab4d28b46617a77be12664\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to take personal offence to that, and I am going to ask the member to stand, withdraw, and apologise, to say that I\u2019m politicising the death of Matthew Hunt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e3afec14c840df9f855f4e6b9495cc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you. The member has taken offence. The member will withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d63145890241ab8a4fe32947adff3d\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, if there is one thing that this Government is not is that it is soft on crime. Let me outline a little bit of history about what happened in the three years before we came into power. Police numbers dropped in the last three years of the National Government\u2014they dropped\u2014and during that period in time, gangs flourished. Meth got out of control, and, in fact, if any member was to have a look at the Police annual report when that member over there was the Minister of Police, it actually says the police are going to have to do more with the same numbers to 2020. In fact, if it wasn\u2019t for the pressure that the Labour Opposition at the time put on the Government of the time, the numbers wouldn\u2019t have increased all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo what did we do to deal with this? We did what every New Zealander wanted us to do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257dff28024664f7e87fdf82ab78e0eab\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member is one minute 45 into his contribution. I invite him to come to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8f7825db4b4ec18403e462bebaa099\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff60e58fd43f431597c2649435c1cc49\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I have just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901d2581944b47d48e7f19001e11bcad\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I demand a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c782b464e1c41a2a4df8a7f230abe81\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no. I have just ruled. I\u2019ve invited the member to come to the bill, and I invite him to do just that. If the member does have a point of order, it must not be related to the matter I\u2019ve just ruled on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba7cf05de674b0b9c9f98ddb8028b07\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve listened to about 15 minutes of speeches on this from the ACT member of Parliament and the National member of Parliament, and all they talked about, by and large, was how Labour is soft\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ab5b16aa45424c93bee26c57726d0c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. That is not a point of order, but I will speak to it. This is a member\u2019s bill. Members have every right to respond to comments made by another member, but those responses and those comments must be in passing. This is a first reading speech on a member\u2019s bill. I invite the Hon Stuart Nash to resume his speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221efe2d2f9e794a96b662babc80ffdaf7\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: A substantial part of this bill is talking about firearms and firearm crime, and gangs and guns. We recognised, at one point in time, that guns were a real problem\u2014certain types of guns were a real issue in our community\u2014where we had a terrorist come in with military-style semi-automatic weapons and mow down 51 Kiwis. As the Minister of Police at the time, I talked to a number of people involved in the firearms community\u2014a wide range of people in the firearms community\u2014and do you know what they all said? \u201CYou don\u2019t need these guns.\u201D Hunters said you don\u2019t need a military-style semi-automatic to hunt. Duck shooters said you don\u2019t need a barrel with eight bullets to hunt. So what we did\u2014the first jurisdiction in the world\u2014is we actually banned weapons that were produced to kill people\u2014to kill people. We said any legitimate weapon for hunting, for duck hunting, for farms, we\u2019ll leave those there. And the vast majority of gun owners, the vast majority of Kiwis, understood why we were doing what we were doing and they bought into it, because the thing is, when it comes to guns and when it comes to gangs, we all know\u2014and Nicole McKee, I believe you know, because you were a very staunch advocate in this\u2014that where the gangs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc6d8fc0c28446ab4004cd39669798c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will not bring the Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f11388f0c754261a333b36ea3e3ad6a\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34f46998a7c4854acf5f34db2c0424a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will not bring the Speaker into the debate. The member will not reflect on the Speaker\u2019s rulings. I\u2019m warning the member that if he doesn\u2019t come back to the bill\u2014he has just under two minutes left of his speech. If the Minister does not come back to the bill, I will terminate his speech. He\u2019s had several warnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea3d738c639145929bd95491271f197e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: That member of Parliament who has brought this bill to the House, I believe, is out of touch with the vast majority of good, law-abiding citizens. All the research shows that where the gangs get their guns from is they steal them from good, law-abiding citizens. In order to deal with the gun problems and gangs, we brought a bill to this House which made it a lot more difficult for gangs to get guns, and, lo and behold, the ACT Party and the National Party voted against that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill will do nothing to address the really serious problem we have in this country, and that is gangs and that is guns. The things that will deal with this are more police on the streets, which we are implementing in a way that no other Government\u2014the way to deal with this issue is to go after the gangs with gang focus units, which we have put in place. The way to go after and achieve the objectives that member would like to see in this bill is to ensure that those who are caught with illegal weapons go down for a long time, which is what we put in place and that member\u2019s party voted against. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere is a great body of work that is going on right across the police service at the moment to deal with these issues. If that member understood what the police were doing, what the Minister was doing, what the focus of this Government is, to address these issues, then I think she would realise that she is wasting her time with this bill. When that member talked about a waste of time\u2014Nicole McKee, I am sorry, you are out of touch with what the police are doing to solve this important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00224af1fe119d654b40b33d27f3d06069cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224af1fe119d654b40b33d27f3d06069cd\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hope to bring the House back to the bill, after several contributions from both sides of the House that have diverged quite a fair bit away from it. I would just quite like to ground us all in the criminal justice system from the perspective of someone who worked in it for a decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EHow do proceeds of crime legislations work? They came in under the last National Party Government. They seek to take away what purportedly is an incentive for crime, which is property. Most New Zealanders, though, would be horrified to find that, whilst in this country we determine guilt of criminal offending through a criminal justice process, where there is a burden of proof on the Crown and a standard of proof of beyond reasonable doubt\u2014so you have to prove the person did the crime\u2014proceeds of crime legislation don\u2019t apply those same standards. This is a balance of probabilities. You don\u2019t have to have been proven to be in a gang. You don\u2019t have to have been proven to have committed a crime. You certainly don\u2019t have to have it proven that the property that the Crown is seizing was the proceeds of a crime. It\u2019s all done on balance of probabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAnd who do we see our criminal justice treat as if it\u2019s more likely that they are a criminal, more likely that they\u2019re in a gang, and more likely that they shouldn\u2019t have property? It\u2019s not a fair and just system when it comes to accusations, and that\u2019s who this bill will impact. It will be M\u0101ori. It will be Pacific peoples. It will be poorer communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIf you can\u2019t prove the person was in a gang, why are you taking away their rights to their property? That doesn\u2019t seem like something that a libertarian party should be doing. They should be raising the standard of proof to or beyond a reasonable doubt standard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s come back to the criminal justice system. Let\u2019s come back to sitting across the table from someone who has been accused of being in a gang\u2014or someone who has been proven to be in a gang. You put their file in front of them. Can they read it? Almost never. We talk about protecting children. Who\u2019s in gangs? Almost every person I came across in the justice system who I represented had a mental health report that showed that they\u2019d been removed from their home or that they\u2019d been kicked around homes. Their tattoos\u2014often facial\u2014were put on there at early adolescence so they could look tough so they could fend off their abusers. That\u2019s who we\u2019re talking about. We have a system that abuses children from a certain background and then kicks them into a criminal justice system, and this bill wants to lower the standard of proof for guilt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe want to lower the standard of proof of guilt. We want to shift the burden on to the person to prove their innocence. We want to double down on the prejudice, on the racism, and on poverty that causes crime whilst we tell victims we\u2019re keeping them safe!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not allowed to accuse each other of dishonesty in this House, but if we keep doing criminal justice without evidence\u2014and that\u2019s on both sides, because more police aren\u2019t going to keep anyone safe either, by the way. That\u2019s just to this Government, who just put half a billion dollars into front-line police instead of mental health care and instead of addiction treatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277eb1cd43edf433b9059a984f1a29d79\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I invite the member to come a little more closely to the bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c10f95259fa46518a59d2d584596d6f\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThis bill purports to take away property without proof that anyone is guilty of being in a gang, has committed a crime, or has done anything that\u2019s in fact going to address criminal offending. It won\u2019t keep anyone safe. It\u2019s certainly not commendable, and it\u2019s actually a shame that we\u2019re doing things in this archaic way again and again whilst telling the public we\u2019re keeping them safe. On behalf of the Green Party, I would never commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022341cb8fbb2934e598c3ca66c7e0255f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022341cb8fbb2934e598c3ca66c7e0255f1\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora and good evening, Madam Speaker. I sit with Ms McKee on the Justice Committee and I would like to have supported her member\u2019s bill, because it is a milestone. Unfortunately, sitting in select committee also demonstrates the dangers of allowing in an unnecessary or a badly designed bill, however many clicks it generates its owner. The Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act (CPR Act), which this bill seeks to amend, is designed to enable the forfeiture of property that has been derived directly or indirectly from significant criminal activity. It\u2019s an Act about making sure crime doesn\u2019t pay, about depriving people who offend or profit off that profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut instead of improving the Act\u2019s ability to strip criminals of their profits, this bill dispenses with any real link between asset and offending, scooping up into the net a whole lot of not-very-organised-at-all criminal conduct and a whole lot of assets with little, if any, relation to criminal activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s imagine \u201CUncle Bob\u201D, usually a law-abiding person, who forgets to renew his gun licence. Now Uncle Bob\u2019s holding an unlawful gun under the Arms Act. But before he can rectify this situation, his misguided \u201CNephew Billy\u201D from the local gang pops around for a cuppa and a chat about turning his life around, only to find himself in the presence of an unlawful gun and in the middle of a crime scene. Now uncle\u2019s worldly goods are forfeit under the CPR Act, as amended by Ms McKee, despite the fact those worldly goods are the proceeds of precisely no crimes because none of his wrongdoing has produced an illicit dime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe amendment is inconsistent. It\u2019s overkill and it\u2019s unfair, and\u2014as Minister Williams pointed out\u2014would cause considerably more work for our police. It\u2019s also unnecessary. If the focus is on gangs and gun crime, the police can already use the CPR Act to seize their assets because illegal firearm trafficking is already punishable by 10 years\u2019 jail under the Arms Act. Even unlawful possession of a prohibited firearm has a five-year term, sufficient to trigger the existing Act. Short of these, the Arms Act allows police to seize unlawful firearms even for offences under the CPR Act threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut, finally, this bill is an irrelevance because the Government is already cracking down on guns and organised crime or gangs. We\u2019re already working on real improvements to the Criminal Proceeds Act to enable better targeting of organised crime, so that where a person\u2019s legitimate income is unlikely to have been enough to acquire an asset, they will have to demonstrate a legitimate source or lose it. Our firearms prohibition orders will make it illegal for high-risk people such as members of organised crime fraternities to own firearms, in a bill which has already passed its first reading in February. By this December, we\u2019ll have a dedicated police firearms unit for regulatory activities, and by June 2023, a firearms registry to fill our 30-year-old gap about what legal firearms are in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWe are committing resources on to the ground to protect our communities on a scale never seen before. We\u2019re ahead of schedule in delivering the biggest police force New Zealand has ever seen, and, in Budget 2022, we\u2019re increasing it and putting another $94 million specifically into tackling gangs and organised crimes\u2014and it is working. In four years, we have seized over $500 million in cash and assets from gangs and criminals, we have seized 1,500 firearms, arrested 1,200 people, and seized 53.74 kilograms of meth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s great to have a member\u2019s bill, but it\u2019s only worth the effort\u2014not just by the member but by this House\u2014if it\u2019s actually going to make a difference. This one won\u2019t. It\u2019s a day late, a dollar short, and I cannot commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002296b6ca7b48b34bbeac643b219920a2d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b6ca7b48b34bbeac643b219920a2d5\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to take a call on the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) (Definition of Significant Criminal Activity) Amendment Bill first reading in the name of Nicole McKee from the ACT Party. It is a privilege to support such an important piece of legislation through its first reading and, I hope, to select committee, but that does not seem to be the way it will go with this Government that is in charge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation because it sends a very clear message that being a criminal gang member will not pay in New Zealand. We heard it from the other side: crime shouldn\u2019t pay. But they\u2019re going to vote against the bill. Crime shouldn\u2019t pay, but now they\u2019re voting against the bill which will make sure that crime doesn\u2019t pay in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very, very simple principle in this piece of legislation: if the police turn up to a property and they find a gang member with an illegal firearm, they are able to take that gang member\u2019s assets. I\u2019m sick and tired of hearing people apologising for gang members in New Zealand. The apologising for gang members that\u2019s come from the members on the other side and the Green Party up in the far corner is actually quite disgusting. We live in a country which has become overridden with gang members under this Government. There have been more gang members recruited under this Government than police officers. It\u2019s grown faster, the number of gang members than police officers, but all we hear is apologies\u2014apologies for the gang members. And when they stop apologising the next thing they start doing is actually funding the gangs. They take the money, using the proceeds of crime fund, and then they start giving it back to the gangs. That is absolutely disgusting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut what the criminal proceeds of crime fund\u2014the legislation which this bill amends is about saying, \u201CCrime shouldn\u2019t pay, and we will take your assets, and then we will put it to crime prevention and actually keeping New Zealanders safe.\u201D This Government says, \u201CWe\u2019re going to take some money off the Hawke\u2019s Bay Mongrel Mob, and then we\u2019re going to give it back with interest.\u201D They literally gave back twice as much as they took in the first place. That\u2019s how this Government operates, and, quite frankly, New Zealanders have had enough. The poll results say, \u201CEnough.\u201D Seventy percent of New Zealanders think the police Minister is soft on crime\u201470 percent. That is an embarrassing number for the police Minister. Fifty percent of Labour supporters think the police Minister\u2019s soft on crime. That is absolutely embarrassing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bc38b5be9845dc800f86d543f89d7d\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241247ab7684f46f299e2026a8a3c1d2f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: So what this Government should be doing is supporting legislation which actually does make a difference, Mr Stuart Nash. Actually making a difference, to actually give the police the tools they need to go hard against the gangs\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775ff4fdbabf4ed7b18b29a4e7955642\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280cff90194fb46c8a459de9d2941b8e6\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014take the assets off them and actually make sure that crime doesn\u2019t pay in New Zealand. I heard the previous speaker say that gangs are just a fraternity. They\u2019re not the Rotary club, for goodness\u2019 sake. These people are shooting people, killing people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e214b2c284d46708117df632188af17\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They play tiddlywinks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240dd9f21667d4a269927499d7184d5e4\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not\u2014well, these guys are playing tiddlywinks with the gangs. The gangs have got this Government wrapped round their little finger, and it shows every single day. It\u2019s quite disgusting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThen you\u2019ve got the Green Party saying, \u201COh, we\u2019ve got too many police in New Zealand.\u201D They want to defund the police. Well, what they\u2019ll do is the next piece of legislation will say \u201Cdefunding the police in New Zealand\u201D. Absolutely disgusting. What we need to be doing in New Zealand is actually supporting our police, giving them tools that they need, like the tool in this bill, which is an excellent tool, which actually gives them tools to go after the gangs and go after their assets. That is exactly what this piece of legislation will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very grateful that the member from the ACT Party, Nicole McKee, who is an outstanding advocate around law and order and justice issues, is bringing legislation to this House. Legislation which should at least be sent to a select committee. They crow about firearm prohibition orders. They\u2019ve had 4\u00BD years. What have they done? Four and a half years, what have they done? Minister Stuart Nash, you were told in 2017, in your briefing to the incoming Minister that came on your desk, we need firearms prohibition orders, and nothing happened while you were Minister of Police\u2014nothing happened. And now you\u2019re trying to complain from the sidelines. Chirp, chirp, chirp from the sidelines. Nothing happened while you were the Minister of Police. What a fail\u2014what a fail. Well, the people of Napier will have a thing or two to say about that next year, won\u2019t they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd so what we need is legislation which will make a difference. The ACT Party\u2019s brought legislation. National\u2019s bringing legislation. We\u2019ve got a plan to tackle gangs in New Zealand. But this soft on crime Government is embarrassing, and next year they\u2019ll be gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022048c2de2b4594e02b60e17e105596287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022048c2de2b4594e02b60e17e105596287\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. I think that the first observation I want to make is that that last contribution, from Simeon Brown, seemed to be more about the member\u2019s own member\u2019s bill that failed to get support in the House, than the one that we\u2019re actually talking about tonight. So let me bring us to the bill that we are actually talking about tonight, and that is the bill of Nicole McKee on the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) (Definition of Significant Criminal Activity) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe main point that I want to make from listening to all of the contributions tonight, which I think that many are missing because they are just wanting to talk to the politics of it all, is that I have failed to be convinced that there is actually a need for what this bill is proposing. It is really clear that the bill proposes unnecessary changes, because the police can already use legislation that we have, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act to seize assets based off the crime of firearm trafficking, which has been the subject of many of the contributions tonight. Illegal firearm trafficking is an offence under section 55E of the Arms Act 1983 and is punishable by up to 10 years. Under the Arms Act, it is also unlawful to possess illegal firearms, or without the necessary authorisation. So this means that police can already seize unlawful firearms, even if the crimes committed\u2014wait for it\u2014are below the thresholds in the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act, which is what this bill proposes to do by expanding the definition of \u201Csignificant criminal activity\u201D. I haven\u2019t heard, in any of the contributions tonight, anything to convince me that this bill is required to be able to do all of the things that everybody has mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI do just want to acknowledge Dr Emily Henderson, my colleague and member of the Justice Committee, and neighbour in the Whang\u0101rei electorate, and the perverse outcome that she described could happen with the hypothetical \u201CUncle Bob\u201D and \u201CNephew Billy\u201D in this case. So thank you to Emily, who explained for the House what this could mean in practice, and I\u2019m sure that\u2019s not what any of us wants to actually happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAs I have said, I believe the member\u2019s bill is unnecessary because we already have legislation which enables our police, gives them the tools that they need to address the issues that have been raised, even if they don\u2019t meet the threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIn terms of other things that have been raised in the debate to try and strengthen the argument for why this is necessary, again, you have heard the Minister of Police say, the former Minister of Police say, and others making contributions, that we are already working to amend the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act to introduce new power, enabling seizures of assets of those associated with gangs. So we are changing legislation but we are also better resourcing our police to actually be able to do this. So one small amendment in an Act that doesn\u2019t have the resources given to it to be able to actually implement it isn\u2019t going to be that effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWe are being effective. The Government is committed to protecting our communities, and, in the last four years alone, $500 million of cash and assets has been seized from the gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af267f683bc7499e8dab4c540c89a722\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c45a378c872c4c068cc7924ea0fb759f\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: $500 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6a5e16943249bebcf484f323f791ed\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: $500 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224129fb83fb7c4d29a0dc57a7bac168cd\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s right, just in our first term. Introduced in February 2021, Operation Tauwhiro, which is a nationally coordinated police operation cracking down on gangs and organised crime, has seized 1,531 firearms, arrested 1,255 people, seized 53.74 kilograms of methamphetamine, and conducted 926 searches under warrant and 634 warrantless searches. The actual initiatives that we have started and that we are funding are working. And in this Budget, we have announced that we are going to be doing even more in terms of that, with the unit being set up for it this year as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo, just in conclusion, as I said at the beginning, I\u2019ve listened to the debate this evening, I have not been convinced by any of the contributions that this particular piece of legislation is necessary; in fact, there already are the powers that exist to be able to do it. On that basis, unfortunately, I won\u2019t be supporting the bill this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022acfb85f747ef43aba959ac055f52a636\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acfb85f747ef43aba959ac055f52a636\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E What\u2019s fascinating, as you listen to the left wing\u2014or the radical far left, off to my left here in the Green Party, who want to defund the police\u2014is that, according to them, there is absolutely no problem with criminals in New Zealand. There are no problems with criminals with guns! And, lo and behold, there is definitely no problem with gang members with guns committing crime!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ENow, some of us live in the real world, which is where six constituents of mine in Glen Innes were shot at. In Wairoa tonight, gang members unleashed numerous rounds into a house. In my electorate alone, we\u2019ve had 30 ram raids. As my colleague Simeon Brown pointed out, we have got more gang members now than police. In fact, the gangs are recruiting, particularly through Corrections\u2014where\u2019s Kelvin Davis? Where is Kelvin Davis on this, by the way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no problem, according to the left and the far left; it\u2019s all tickety-boo. The problem is\u2014and you can sense it, you can just feel it, if you\u2019re more intuitive in this House. You can just feel the other side knows\u2014they just know\u2014that they should be for this bill. You can absolutely feel it. Because this is a good bill. It\u2019s a simple bill. It\u2019s a simple proposition. That\u2019s illustrated by a couple of ways. We get lectured ad absurdum, ad infinitum, ad boring\u2014probably bad Latin\u2014from the other side of the House. We should always let bills go through the first reading, should always let them go to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut isn\u2019t it funny, when we\u2019re dealing with crime, gangs, holding people to account, not taking excuses for victims\u2014no, no, Labour and the far left of the Greens: \u201CWe\u2019re going to block it.\u201D That\u2019s the first option. The second is, tonight, we\u2019ve heard from one of the other members talking about lived experiences, everything. Well, what is fascinating, to that Labour member: first and foremost, \u201CLived experience is everything.\u201D is one of the weakest, stupidest irrational arguments possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eaf6471b36c44668dffc980967bb14f\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224378f152f4b34b32812a3845d866431c\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: You would know, wouldn\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca483f8f0f24817bb39665b95ff4c52\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, sorry, this is my lived experience! Thanks Labour, just want to put that out there\u2014it\u2019s my lived experience; it\u2019s everything, according to your colleagues. But I just want to note that the member promoting this bill\u2014to Nicole McKee, thank you. I back her lived experience, as a licensed gun-owner and advocate, more than any member of that Labour caucus and the far left, the radical far left which is the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s so wonderful about this bill is it does two things at once; there\u2019s a wonderful serendipity. And note they\u2019re getting so upset on the other side because, you know, again, it\u2019s just tweaking them. They know they\u2019re wrong. Cross the House, guys; it\u2019ll be good for you. It\u2019ll stretch your legs. It\u2019s great for your coronaries. But the great thing about this bill is it does two things at once. Firstly, it\u2019s a bill which disincentivises having illegal guns. On the other hand\u2014on the other hand\u2014it makes real consequences for those gang members who hold them. It\u2019s so simple. On one hand, don\u2019t own or don\u2019t have an illegal firearm. On the other hand, there\u2019ll be serious consequences if you\u2019re found with one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ETo the members of the public watching, it\u2019s just so incredibly simple. Unfortunately, your Government\u2014your Government\u2014doesn\u2019t quite understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88beed8aaae43818d29c0c948d49cbb\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Got it now. Got it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e5076e7a70742e594cf8c0ec1fac190\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: What makes it even more clear is there\u2019s heckling going on at the moment. But you know what it is? It\u2019s just noises. There\u2019s actually no words being used; it\u2019s just noises. I think that sums up the Labour and the far, extreme left of the Greens perfectly. When it comes to crime, when it comes to protecting people through this piece of legislation, let\u2019s be very clear: the centre right, National and ACT, will vote for this. But tonight, the Labour Party and the Green Party, and, I suspect, the M\u0101ori Party will vote against it. They will vote for the gangs. They will vote for firearms. They will vote against safety. And they know, deep down, they\u2019re wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002272e72feed4e84108a6b488061085c9a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e72feed4e84108a6b488061085c9a0\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, that was really interesting. We\u2019ve had some fantastic speeches, but none of them are really talking about this bill. Let\u2019s read the bill, because I\u2019m trying to figure out\u2014so I think what is intended, by reading this, is to increase the power to seize assets if a gang member\u2019s got a gun. I think that\u2019s what it\u2019s trying to do. We\u2019ve heard a whole lot of different stuff tonight from National members, but I think that\u2019s actually what they\u2019re attempting to achieve tonight, not successfully at all. It attempts to amend the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act to expand its definition of \u201Csignificant criminal activity\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to remind those members opposite that in the nine years that they were in Government, they promised to switch the onus on organised crime. They promised to switch that onus. The legislation that will be passed in this term that this Government will deliver alongside of firearms prohibition orders (FPOs)\u2014they promised to switch that onus, to make it easier for police when finding assets; that it\u2019s on that person who owns their illegal item to prove that they got it legally. They tried for nine years, alongside FPOs, to get that over the line, and they failed to do it. So this is yet another half-hearted \u201Clooking like we\u2019re tough but can\u2019t deliver\u201D antic that we see from those members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAnd the reason why Labour doesn\u2019t support this bill is because already there is very good work in this space. The bill proposes unnecessary changes, because police already use the proceeds of the Crimes Act to seize assets based off the crime of firearm trafficking. Illegal firearm trafficking is an offence already under the Arms Act, and is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. So someone hasn\u2019t done their homework, because there\u2019s already grounds in there to make those changes and to seize assets under existing legislation. This is an age-old problem: not knowing the law that\u2019s there already and not being able to use it in the way that\u2019s needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EUnder the Arms Act, it\u2019s also unlawful to possess illegal firearms, and, lo and behold, guess what? Most gang members don\u2019t have a firearms licence! So \u201Cwithout unnecessary authorisation\u201D\u2014this means that police can seize unlawful firearms even if the crimes committed are below the thresholds of the current Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act. So it really renders this entire bill and the idea behind it redundant. The whole purpose is to establish a regime for the forfeiture of property that has been derived directly or indirectly by significant criminal activity, and it has been an incredibly successful programme. Hundreds of different activities. Fog cannons. We\u2019ve had different programmes in terms of outreach and preventing crime, whether it be through alcohol and drug or other treatment being funded through a programme\u2014where we are smart on crime and take those proceeds and put them in the bank and put it back to addressing those underlying drivers of criminal activity, which we on this side of the House are ready to engage on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Government is already making changes to make it illegal for high-risk people to own firearms by introducing firearm prohibition orders, which failed to be introduced by the previous Government. This will strengthen action already being taken to combat the influence of gangs and organised crime and breaching the conditions of a firearm prohibition order. It will be a criminal offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to reiterate that the Government is also already working to amend, as I mentioned earlier, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act to introduce a new power enabling seizure of assets of those associated with organised crime where the person\u2019s known legitimate income is likely to have been insufficient to acquire that asset. That is what was attempted for nine years under National and that is not what has been achieved in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government has committed to protecting our communities and, over the last four years, $500 million in cash and assets has been seized from criminals by police. Gangs, quite clearly, should not be making money from exploiting our communities. This Government is incredibly clear we will not tolerate organised crime and gangs and we are working hard to disrupt that, and the number one reason we are doing it would be the $94 million invested in this Budget in front-line organised crime. That money has never, ever in the past, under any previous Government, been invested. The 1,800 cops on the front line? Never before. So you can talk tough and you can walk the walk, but you don\u2019t talk to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002258ae17b9a3264ceda8ba958e76c7d546\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258ae17b9a3264ceda8ba958e76c7d546\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will not bring the Speaker into the argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8f1c3930abb41f3b5fa2a1509d81a54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8f1c3930abb41f3b5fa2a1509d81a54\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. What a debate we\u2019ve had across the House this evening. Look, I want to talk a little bit to some of the things that were raised from the Labour side across the House, because I genuinely think that they\u2019ve lost the entire concept of what this bill is actually about. What I\u2019ve heard over there from the Minister of Police is that, \u201CWell, Nicole, your bill is not actually going to make that much disruption, so we don\u2019t want to support it.\u201D And the former Minister of Police had to be told to sit down so many times because he couldn\u2019t actually get to the bill itself, you know, so when I hear some of the rhetoric that is coming from across the House, I think I actually need to explain the bill again. Because the Labour member who wanted to talk about Uncle Bob and nephew Billy\u2014let\u2019s just run through that scenario again, shall we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo Uncle Bob has a firearms licence and it\u2019s expired, and nephew Billy belongs to a gang and he comes over to Uncle Bob\u2019s house, which is being raided and we\u2019re saying that his gun should not be taken away. So we\u2019ve got a law that\u2019s been broken already. He\u2019s in illegal possession of a firearm because his licence has expired, and 250,000 people who have licences at the moment cannot hold on to their firearms once their licences have expired. That\u2019s an illegal thing. There also has to be significant criminal activity occurring in that place. Now, I know that Labour do like to give gangs their licences, but if there is a significant criminal activity taking place at Uncle Bob\u2019s place when nephew Billy turns up, then we\u2019ve got to wonder what on earth Uncle Bob was doing with a firearms licence in the first place. This comes down to fit and proper, and maybe we should go back to the royal commission of inquiry\u2019s recommendations, which said we should have a separate independent authority administrating firearms legislation. But I am going off topic and I will bring it back in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe have members not only of gangs, but criminals, those that are wanting to become gang members, using illegally held firearms illegally. This has occurred already\u2014this evening we are hearing reports of a house in Wairoa being shotgunned and a child\u2019s bedroom being shotgunned by gang members retaliating to another firearm gang attack. Now, this bill, it\u2019s not about seizing firearms. It\u2019s about having a disincentive for gang members to be in possession of illegally held firearms. It\u2019s about adding a new threshold to freeze and seize assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAs I had mentioned in my earlier speech, if we\u2019re going to have a good economy and a thriving community, we need to make sure that we have trust in our Government and also our police. We are losing that at the moment because our homes are being shot up by gang members. And that is soft. That is soft on punishment, it is soft on action, it is soft on crime, and ACT will not have a bar of it. We want to make sure that our communities can thrive. They need to, especially when we\u2019re in the middle of a cost of living crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s take away the bling and the money from the gangs, because quite frankly that\u2019s all they care about. You can do it by adding an illegally held firearm at the time that there is a raid at a place where there is significant criminal activity taking place. If you add an illegally held firearm, it becomes the new threshold to freeze and seize, and we know that that will actually have an effect on the gangs. We know that. It\u2019s a pity that the Government doesn\u2019t, and it\u2019s a pity that the Government are more interested in handing out $2.75 billion to the gangs instead of using $626 million to help really fight organised crime. It\u2019s a pity, but we\u2019re not going to stop. We\u2019re not going to stop, we\u2019re going to keep on going, because our law and order policies are there for New Zealand. It\u2019s to make our communities thrive, it\u2019s to help boost our economy, and it\u2019s to make sure that those licenced firearm owners who Labour just chuck in the same box as gang members are actually recognised for the fit and proper people that they are. I\u2019m proud to be a part of that and to be one of them and to represent. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d13da149d0e4f63a25a45d0f84694b6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) (Definition of Significant Criminal Activity) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 42\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b85d6eee5b5e41b7bfc15c6168d55871\u0022\u003EEducation and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002217ffbdf3dd82465095ab3b56f00cbddd\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u002212e36120d1bb471c8af2304488b86cfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212e36120d1bb471c8af2304488b86cfa\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I further nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAs we go through my bill this evening, I hope that we can all reflect on how fortunate we are to be able to freely participate in the process and debate the issue at hand. We\u2019ve certainly been doing that this evening. How about that? Two ACT bills in a row. Get used to it. This is the essence of liberal democracy. In this context, it is easy to take free speech for granted, and open debate as well, particularly as we are operating under the guise of parliamentary privilege. That being said, we should never take freedom itself for granted. Free speech is fundamental. It is the cornerstone of liberal democracy and a proven method to confront tyranny, injustice, and oppression.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EIn the lead-up to this bill, I have spoken about freedom of speech and academic freedom. These are actually distinct concepts. Freedom of speech, an ideal within the broader construct of freedom of expression, is the ability to express one\u2019s thoughts without restriction, so long as you are not harming others or inciting violence on others. Academic freedom, on the other hand, is the ability of academics and students to question ideas and to put forward new ones without being censored, or, worse, risking your career or enrolment status. For academics, it is crucial that they are able to teach and undertake research that challenges the status quo, even if it\u2019s a bit unorthodox if they choose to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EUniversities are, by their design, centres of inquiry and intellectual debate, most of the time, by which new ideas are brought to life and tested. Virtually every scientific breakthrough and accomplishment throughout history has pushed the boundaries of their times. They were often criticised by academic institutions as immoral and offensive, but are now accepted as fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThis bill requires that tertiary institutions protect freedom of expression and gives them significant say over how they do so within existing laws. The bill enables them to issue codes of practice that are set out in procedures that students and staff should follow to uphold freedom of expression. Universities will need to take responsibility to maintain lawful freedom of speech for their faculty, students, and visiting speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EHaving such a process actually helps universities, as it enables them to clearly identify when a speaker presents a real risk of inciting harm or criminal activity, while protecting those who may have unorthodox or slightly strange or controversial views but are otherwise harmless. Massey University released their own policy\u2014of sorts\u2014on freedom of speech, which cites mental harm to students as a reason that speakers may be de-platformed or events cancelled. This is entirely open-ended and subjective, and it will result in a process that is informal and behind closed doors. Taxpayer-funded institutions, through their management, should not be forcing whatever world view they have and that they possess on students, using dubious claims to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EA recent survey conducted by Curia Market Research on behalf of the Free Speech Union gathered over 1,200 responses from university-employed academics. In the findings, almost half of the respondents felt constrained to raise differing perspectives and to argue against the consensus\u2014and even more so in discussing the Treaty. On the latter, almost a third ranked themselves as feeling very unfree. If academics feel unable to speak out on any issue, this will have long-run and long-term consequences and effects on students. Their ability to engage in critical thinking will be diminished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThe results of this survey are troubling, and they show that the issues are real here in New Zealand universities. Universities should be environments of genuine diversity and open debate, with the free exchange and exploration of ideas without fear, yet the survey demonstrates that there is fear, and it is only getting worse. If we do not confront these issues, we risk not only losing our freedom but also our problem-solving abilities. It is frankly disappointing that we are even here debating this issue in 21st century New Zealand. In a healthy culture, people are allowed to say unpopular things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afaa330e6af1456da3b3e20089075115\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Careful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204889ea14eb342c293eb7ce727246db9\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL\u003C/span\u003E: Speech isn\u2019t\u2014yeah. Speech isn\u2019t about left versus right, believe it or not. As part of the broader attack on liberalism\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8619ea9f0ca472a9e5f127627c4d474\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: He needs to be cancelled!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022326adb940f1348879e2c80ee43646de1\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL\u003C/span\u003E: Gee, they\u2019re upset now. Freedom of speech has been contested on both sides of the political spectrum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af27e7ddf4440ce978ff1800dc66ef7\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What about homophobic ones? Transphobic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b10c87cf7622475e9ade744b3a78efa8\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL\u003C/span\u003E: While in contemporary discussions it tends to be pushed by those on the right, for sure, history clearly shows that freedom of speech was the key enabler in many social justice issues pioneered by the left, even if they refuse to believe it\u2014like right now. Kate Sheppard was likely one of New Zealand\u2019s greatest speakers, but her views were radical at the time. We nevertheless became the first country in the world to have universal suffrage to give women the vote when Parliament passed the 1893 Electoral Act, and it is one of our greatest achievements made possible in a culture that enabled free speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThe anti - Springbok tour is another example. It would not have been as successful as it was had it had been an environment where we weren\u2019t allowed to make unpopular statements. In modern times, we have seen the likes of the group Speak Up For Women repeatedly being shut down. I\u2019m not saying I necessarily support everything they say, but regardless. And of course, I have to mention the case\u2014the famous case\u2014of Don Brash and Massey University\u2019s decision to cancel him, despite the fact that he was only going to go there to talk about his political career. Even the Prime Minister from that party over there called their refusal to host Brash an overreaction. Minister Hipkins said he wouldn\u2019t have cancelled him either and that universities should have a very high threshold around allowing free speech, enabling it, and having robust debate. What a good idea. Thank you, Minister Hipkins. We also have seen issues such as posters at Massey University supporting the Hong Kong protests being torn down, and Auckland University of Technology scrapping Tiananmen Square commemorations after the Chinese Government communist officials intervened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EFreedom of speech is a core principle in classical liberalism and should be protected by law in any democratic nation. It is worth noting that, here in New Zealand, it is neither entrenched in law nor absolute. Instead, freedom of expression is loosely protected by the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. In theory, the law enforces the right to speak, associate, to think, and to participate in the democratic process. Liberalism emphasises tolerance and dignity. A person does not have to agree with their fellow citizens about important issues, but acknowledge that each individual should get to decide what they are, who they are, what they think, and how they express themselves without interference from the State. In theory, liberalism lowers the temperature of politics, though I think this evening it\u2019s not working out so well, so it probably reflects more on what\u2019s happening on the Government side over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EHuman dignity is about people having an equal right to autonomy and freedom of choice. Every individual wants to shape their lives as they see fit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5920032edb488fb28560d1c9ce2a9c\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Freedom of choice to be transphobic!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d934752201544c0c86d10c6027238e60\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL\u003C/span\u003E: If a significant part of society rejects liberal principles and seeks to fundamentally restrict speech, then dignity is lost, identities take over, and liberalism can no longer maintain peaceful political order. The Government\u2019s proposed hate speech laws, which are being developed under a veil of secrecy, could significantly challenge this inherent dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EIn closing, I would say that we can be certain that the threats to free speech are not limited to our university campuses. The effects can be felt throughout society\u2014chilling effects. This bill is none the less a positive step to mitigate the growing phenomenon of woke cancel culture in places of learning where open debate should be protected and encouraged. I commend my bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00223d99872a3a2847d8a3a4a3cc007f68cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d99872a3a2847d8a3a4a3cc007f68cd\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my privilege to stand and respond sensibly and thoughtfully to this bill, the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill. While we appreciate the member\u2019s attempts to look after what happens in universities, this goes nowhere near resolving the issues he thinks exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EHe talks about protecting in law freedom of speech and academic freedom, and luckily we already have more than one law that does that, whether it is the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act or the Human Rights Act, or whether it is the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression)\u2014oh no, that one\u2019s no good\u2014whether it\u2019s the Education and Training Act. The Education and Training Act is really interesting because it protects the freedom of speech of academics more than the other Acts that already exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo we know that we are acknowledging, in current legislation, how precious it is to protect our academics\u2019 ability to challenge us as a society, to bring new thinking, new evidence, and new science to us and to confront us and our status quo. We protect it; we cherish it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it doesn\u2019t protect that any further. What it does is it tells academic institutions that the politicians in this House have a much better idea of what it is they should be looking after as far as knowledge goes and science goes in their institutions. We are absolutely supportive of the idea that the law recognises academics as being a critic and conscience of society\u2014and we\u2019ve heard so many times over the last few months as we brought our bills to this House that have protected and extended how we behave as a society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EYears ago, those thoughts and things that are absolutely\u2014and quite rightly\u2014front and centre, normal, and regular today were at the edges of academia a generation ago. We absolutely understand the importance of academics challenging the status quo. The danger when we take away any opportunity for institutions to regulate that\u2014because there is a tension to manage, and those institutions should be free to do it\u2014is that when we shift from dissenting views that are based on evidence and based on science and academic rigour, and we shift into views that are opinions that are based on falsehoods, demonstrable misinformation, what that does is it actually undermines performing a role as critic and conscience of society. What happens is, we\u2019re reducing the independence of our institutions to do what is best for academics, for their students, and for their staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe should be trusting them; we shouldn\u2019t go, \u201COh, well it\u2019s OK if someone might physically hurt but not if there is mental injury.\u201D They should be entitled to absolutely be trusted to make sure that science has space to breathe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAcademics versus speakers\u2014and we\u2019ve heard about Don Brash coming into Massey University. This is not about academic freedom. Talking about some overseas visitors bringing in their racist attitudes to public spaces in Auckland is not about what institutions do. This is not going to have an impact on what happens in a public space in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWhat this does is it impacts on the freedom of our institutions to do what is right, to make sure that we have a safe space for science and for evidence and for progress. There is a really, really good reason why we trust our institutions to bring true academic rigour to their spaces. It\u2019s really interesting that we hear that we\u2019ve got people who think that the institutions should be told what they use to judge what helps keep their workers safe under the Health and Safety at Work Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EMental duress and injury; we keep hearing from the other side of the House how important it is to support our young people and the challenges they have with their mental health\u2014except if somebody\u2019s got a point of view that they don\u2019t like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EMental injury, mental duress; why should that be any less of a consideration for these people who must care for their students, who must care for their workers, and must care for their academics and their freedom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EBy giving visitors more voice, some students and staff may actually feel unsafe, and it actually might reduce the academic rigour that we require. I don\u2019t know how long it\u2019s been since you\u2019ve walked on to a campus and had a good debate with your lecturer. Some of us have done it as recently as last week, and it\u2019s wonderful to be in that space where you feel safe to really, really challenge the science\u2014not the misinformation, not the baiting, but the discipline about academic rigour. It\u2019s a beautiful place to be, and I\u2019m sure many of you remember it, some of us more recently than others. But it\u2019s wonderful, and by bringing this Act to fruition, we are going to limit an institution\u2019s obligation to protect that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThe ability for visitors to have a greater right to bring misinformation\u2014to bring viewpoints that actually undermine science\u2014isn\u2019t helpful. Like I say, it can constrain true academic rigour and debate, and it can impact on a prospective learning decision to study in a particular field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe should be making institutions safe places\u2014safe places\u2014for academic rigour, not places where we bring in misinformation and it gets the same status. This bill actually stops institutions from making a solid academic response that\u2019s well-rounded and in the best interests of their workers, their students, their academics, and of course, because they challenge us to be better for all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo it is because of that that I will be opposing this bill and I will not be recommending it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00227c3147024ad94845b1ef586c3e5b75c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c3147024ad94845b1ef586c3e5b75c9\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak in support at this first reading of the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill brought in the name of Dr James McDowall. Congratulations, Dr McDowall, on having this chosen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s purpose is seeking to ensure that tertiary institutions who receive public money have some accountability around properly balancing their health and safety obligations, on the one hand, and their obligation to be a place of open debate, on the other hand. Now, the Education and Training Act 2020 and the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 requires our institutions to uphold academic freedom and freedom of expression. Our universities are required to be the critic and conscience of society; however, there is no consequence for them failing to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis bill shouldn\u2019t be needed\u2014it really shouldn\u2019t be needed\u2014but we\u2019ve seen a number of examples of why it is needed. Let\u2019s have a wee look just at April this year: Auckland University of Technology cancelling, bizarrely, a talk on feminism, advocacy, and free speech. Back in July last year, seven University of Auckland professors dared to take a position on m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and NCEA science and were publicly chastised by the vice-chancellor. And, of course, the example that we had back in 2018, when Don Brash was cancelled by Massey University for health and safety reasons that were found not to be health and safety reasons and had to be reinstated. So if we weren\u2019t seeing this disturbing trend of things such as this happening, the bill wouldn\u2019t be needed, but, sadly, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EBut unlike the current Government that when it decides on something, everything has to be centralised and they have to make the decisions, this bill gives the institutions the ability to issue their own codes of practice, to set out their own policies and procedures that student and staff should follow to uphold freedom of expression. So it gives the responsibility back to the institution to ensure that they can get that balance right, but not lean on health and safety as a reason for cancelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo if institutions are found to be stifling free speech or de-platforming speakers as a general practice, they may lose all or part of their public funding for failing to act in the public interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ENow, universities are worried about speakers encouraging violence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0aebbad420d4784bc358937e5bcd2c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! With apologies to the member. Masks are to be worn in this House unless the member has an exemption or is making a call. So members may not remove their mask, even if only partially to make a call, under these circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d81be539f154d68babeb01c17848521\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. So if universities are worried about speakers encouraging violence or inciting lawbreaking, they have plenty of protection already. The Crimes Act, the Summary Offences Act 1981, the Broadcasting Act 1989, the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015, the Harassment Act 1997, and the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 all place constraints on what people can say, to protect against harmful speech. So tertiary institutions should not be falling back on health and safety, when they have those protections in place. Tertiary institutions should be maximising free expression within these limits, not trying to further constrain it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ENational is supporting this bill at first reading. If, by chance, the Government members might vote for it and the bill goes to select committee and beyond, there would have to be some consideration made to how the bill could actually enforce these obligations. In the case of loss of funding, how will that impact some unrelated work at the same institution? How much, and why\u2014and all those details. But I\u2019m sure that Dr McDowall is working on that and is prepared to see a select committee work on that. But given this growing trend of tertiary institutions disinviting or de-platforming speakers, we believe this bill is necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00221e779eb2016d42f9ad79ae1b7472a62f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e779eb2016d42f9ad79ae1b7472a62f\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019m pleased to rise and take a call on the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill. Can I acknowledge the MP James McDowall and congratulate him on having his bill drawn from the ballot. I will, unfortunately, not be able to support it this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe only had to turn our television on a few days ago and see the terrible shooting in America, in what appeared to be a racially motivated hate crime\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283b40a3971ba4db2ba1416d0ea5f49fd\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64ab99db53c437a8e0a9feee413f7bb\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you\u2019ll listen up, Mr Brown, I will tell you what it has to do with it. Just listen up\u2014less talking, perhaps more listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EA young person who was radicalised and emboldened by what happened here in New Zealand at the mosque attacks in Christchurch a few years ago\u2014actions based on hate for someone of a different race or religion. People are being exposed to so much, particularly at the moment. There is so much misinformation and disinformation out there, and we\u2019ve seen it firsthand out here on our front lawn. Our place, the people\u2019s place, was desecrated while people had a platform to spread their mis- and disinformation, where they spoke about freedom and freedom of speech; they also spoke about hate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221abde0b972da4c9bb4217d545e8a33cb\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: They weren\u2019t at a university. Last time I saw, this wasn\u2019t a university.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221afd0a4104f74941b1b3a3482939e0be\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Now, as a mother of three children, it is innate for me to want to protect them. Mr Brown, you said you wanted to know what it was about. You need to listen instead of hooha-ing across the House. I want my children to go out and explore the world. I want them to attend university and other learning institutions. But I want to know they are as safe as possible while they do so. I can\u2019t tag along to uni with them, so, as parents, we put a lot of trust in those places\u2014that they will do all that they can to keep our children safe, and that means minimising the risk of mental harm, minimising the risk of physical harm, which they are obliged to do under the Health and Safety at Work Act 2015. This proposed piece of legislation takes that away. How could I, in all good conscience, agree to a bill that potentially increases the risk of harm not only to my children but to young people all around New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EYes, it is important that people have freedom of speech. Yes, it is important that people have different points of view. But it is not OK when people want to talk about hateful things, to spread misinformation, to spread disinformation. So it should absolutely be the right of the tertiary education institutions to maintain their autonomy and to be able to disallow speakers, faculty members, students, and visitors, from preventing hateful and even possibly extremist speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis bill even suggests that the tertiary education institution should be penalised and have funding withdrawn, revoked, or suspended if they fail to comply with the requirements to protect freedom of speech. On this side of the House, we have a Government that wants to ensure that Aotearoa New Zealand is a safe place, where people feel safe, where they feel valued, and where people are exposed to the richness of different cultures, different religions, different opinions and views that are contrary to their own, but without the risk of harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a948c21ddffc41a6835379a1ff6872da\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d281a71583a4206b6091d91205c6dd4\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Just keep on listening, Mr O\u2019Connor. You may just learn something. There is no way that we should take away the rights of tertiary institutions to make their own choice about who speaks on campus. There is no way that we should introduce punitive measures and remove funding. Funding that is removed or withheld is funding that is taken away from the very people attending the tertiary institutions\u2014in effect, penalising the students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESo in summary, I don\u2019t support a bill that likely increases the risk of exposing people to harmful, hateful, or extremist speech. I don\u2019t support a bill that wants to financially penalise tertiary education institutions for not exposing people to harmful hate speech and in turn penalising the students by withholding or removing funding. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002208bf4a55cfde4aa2b1d1fe126799901e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208bf4a55cfde4aa2b1d1fe126799901e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I just want to start my contribution today by acknowledging Dr James McDowall, as other members across the Chamber have, for the good luck and good fortune of having his bill drawn. I do, however, hate to inform him that the Greens will not be voting for his bill, which I\u2019ll, of course, address in the next five minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c925f4a507044e8987e414f75efe390\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Cancel culture, Chl\u00F6e!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5ee418fa7f54dfca41ba5e1160d25ec\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if you\u2019d like to listen, Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I never thought that I would see the day that the ACT Party thought that more cumbersome and complicated bureaucracy would somehow be a solution to a problem, let alone a hyped-up problem that we actually already have the legislative infrastructure to fix if we are to pay true heed to the noted purpose of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s be really, really clear. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 section 14 says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CEveryone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.\u201D Of course, per section 3 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, this right applies to our universities and to our tertiary institutions. Section 5 of that same legislation, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, belies\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CJustified limitations\u201D that is subject to reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. What that means for anyone who is listening to this debate tonight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab1b05a5d974054b2f1c228c3ffab5c\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they all just turned off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740dc8978bbb4619b19c37d26a928512\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: And I really would invite some meaningful contributions here, not just those of purported absolutism and really blurring the lines about what we\u2019re actually discussing in this legislation, Mr Brown. What it means is that when these rights, as outlined in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, rub up against each other\u2014such as, for example, freedom of movement, freedom from discrimination, or the likes of freedom from unreasonable search and seizure\u2014we in this Chamber choose how to balance those rights, and those in State institutions, and those responsible for provision of those campuses in these institutions to which this bill seeks to prescribe how they could balance, and actually not balance, because it is absolutely about absolutism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThere are very recent examples of how we go about trying to balance those rights, as prescribed in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, beyond actually those of COVID-19 and the many COVID orders through this House. In fact, I\u2019d refer many members\u2014particularly those from the National Party, who I\u2019m sure will soon stand up and lambast this contribution\u2014to speak to the fact that, for example, they, with the then Attorney-General declaring it an unjust inconsistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, made the decision in the last National Government to deny the rights of prisoners to vote. That is a denial of a right, as prescribed in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and something which those on the side of this House who are now seeking to prescribe absolutism to the freedom of expression are saying shouldn\u2019t be balanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EEvery day there are balancing acts that need to occur with these rights that law cannot be too prescriptive in. In a free and democratic society in which we have the opportunity to debate, it is, in fact, necessary. And I\u2019d actually like to acknowledge the fact that ACT themselves acknowledged this when they voted with most of us in this House\u2014not those who have been really barracking the rest of us throughout the rest of the contributions in this debate, but ACT acknowledged, along with most of us, that safe zones around abortion clinics are an appropriate balance of the rights to protect those who are going in to get access to those abortions against the rights of those who are seeking to harass those in the vicinity of those abortion clinics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis bill does away with that balance, quite explicitly, in fact, by requiring universities to discard any considerations of the health and safety for workers, visitors, and students, to give privilege to whoever wants to come on to a campus and say whatever they want to say. Of course, that could just be spoken word poetry, or it could be to blurt out incessant white noise, or it could be to recruit members for a violent and perhaps bloody coup, like, you know, as acknowledged today and the ACT Party\u2019s Tauranga candidate seemed to so flippantly endorse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EYour right to freedom of speech is not a shield. You can say whatever you want to say, Mr Speaker or other members of this Chamber, but it does not entitle you to protection from the consequences of it, nor does it entitle you to a platform. Perversely, this bill would also seek to remove the freedom of speech of those who oppose the statements of those who are coming on to these campuses to spread their own. The Green Party cannot support this bill in good conscience. It\u2019s far too complicated, unwieldy, and does not achieve the purpose as outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c98cc863ecd14d0f8c894f341d611c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c98cc863ecd14d0f8c894f341d611c5f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! There\u2019s a lot of noise in this House. And, whilst the last speaker had a very loud voice, this speaker doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00227157db5635424049b0ded7942e521d8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227157db5635424049b0ded7942e521d8a\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a very shouty night in House tonight, and we talk about the freedom of speech. Can I remind the House that this week, we will celebrate and recognise Pink Shirt Day on Friday, and that particular kaupapa will work to collectively stop bullying in our country. Yet, tonight, we\u2019re putting forward a piece of legislation that is quite counter to what we\u2019re asking. So I ask all members in this House tonight: on Friday, when you wake up and turn up to this place, will you be taking a photo in your pinks? Will you be having your Pink Shirt Day moment to celebrate anti-bullying? Yet, on this Wednesday evening, you\u2019re supporting a bill that puts forward the opportunity for freedom of speech in places that directly impacts negatively on people, how they feel, and their wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EAlso when we go to Pink Shirt Day\u2014and, yesterday, out the front of our Parliament, we raised the flags to celebrate and recognise the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia, Intersexism, and Transphobia. And when we talk about freedom of speech, freedom for who? For those that are transphobic? For those that are homophobic? Are those the people that you want to speak on university campuses? Are they the racists that you want to have the right to speak on our university campuses? Are those the people that you are putting forward in support of this particular bill? I throw you that question, and I ask you to consider that this coming Friday on Pink Shirt Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EBut if I come back to what we\u2019re putting forward, like our member Swarbrick, I am confused why the ACT Party would want to be putting more regulations on the tertiary institutions. Why would you want to do that? You don\u2019t stand for that. That\u2019s why this bill is so confused, right? It aims for politics, it aims for media grabs, and we are about something more substantial in this House this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI look over to the comments of Penny Simmonds, the member who was a former leader in the tertiary education sector. Can she actually tell us this evening that she would allow these people to speak on a campus openly on such subject matters at the Southern Institute of Technology? Would she do that, and honestly, has she obstructed academics on her campus\u2014not to speak\u2014in her past career? I would question where she sits on this bill, even though she has played to the National Party narrative this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EWhat we do have in our country is tertiary education rules that enable academics and all allied staff members in these tertiary institutions to k\u014Drero, to talk openly, respectfully, and academically to deconstruct, reconstruct, and talk about things that are important to people and communities; things that matter. But I come back to the start of my speech because the people that you are asking for, in this particular bill, are going to put forward kaupapa and discussions that hurt other people. They\u2019re not topics. They aren\u2019t topics, the ones that you\u2019ve talked about. They aren\u2019t topics where people aren\u2019t going to be hurt, and you\u2019re asking them to stand up on university campuses and have their say. I oppose this bill. I oppose it once, twice, three times, because that subject matter has no place in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003ECan I also remind James, who I respect, on our Transport and Infrastructure Committee, actually\u2014a place where we do agree on some things but not on this bill\u2014when we think of women\u2019s suffrage and Kate Sheppard that you mentioned, when we think of the Springbok tour, people had their say; they didn\u2019t need this bill in order to achieve their voice and to move this country forward. I do not support this bill, and I do not commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002220c0db7979cc400cbab900adf9c8c14e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c0db7979cc400cbab900adf9c8c14e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just before I call the next speaker, interjections should be witty, funnily enough, and they should be to the point and not altogether that frequent, and frankly, when you wear hearing aids, it\u2019s like a constant groan in your ears, and it\u2019s very boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8d276f2379b41d69a259bda1ef8cdd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8d276f2379b41d69a259bda1ef8cdd4\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Against the spirit of free speech, Mr Speaker, may I suggest that for mine, you can turn your hearing aid off for five minutes and then turn it back on! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ETo illustrate the very problem that the left and the radical left are putting across tonight, I would just like to say I have found every contribution from the Labour Party and the Greens\u2014$200,000 - Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2014offensive! It\u2019s hurt me! I\u2019m mentally anguished by what they\u2019ve said! My tribe, my community, and my identity has been deeply offended, and no one on that side could dare to critique that, because that\u2019s my experience! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t you dare question what I\u2019m feeling! My feelings trump anything you think and anything your group thinks! My tribe, my feelings, are right, and I am very upset tonight! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI want everything that the Labour Party and the radical Greens say banned! I don\u2019t want to see them on the universities, because if I walk there tomorrow, I could have a hurt feeling\u2014I could have a hurt feeling!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EDo you know what\u2014do you know what? I could go to a university and someone could say \u201CSimon O\u2019Connor, we don\u2019t agree with you.\u201D, and do you know what? That\u2019s just going to cut\u2014according to the Labour Party\u2014so much to my heart! They\u2019re going to say, \u201CGosh, you\u2019re a Catholic.\u201D Oh, what terrible sin could that be? That\u2019s a terrible thing, you know, and I\u2019d feel really hurt about that! \u201CYou\u2019re an academic\u2014you\u2019ve studied. You\u2019re privileged.\u201D\u2014gosh, that\u2019s going to hurt! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019m doing this as parody, because what doesn\u2019t seem to get to the left is that freedom of speech relies on the ability for, actually, an array of ideas. The whole point of freedom of speech is not for the speech we agree with; it\u2019s the speech we don\u2019t, and, unfortunately, our universities have been captured by a bunch of left-wing progressives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt only needs one quick example: Auckland University of Technology\u2014I\u2019ve written to them recently. Guess what? A bunch of women\u2014that\u2019s probably the wrong pronoun and collective pronoun, but anyway. A bunch of women\u2014I want to be really specific about that gender; a bunch of women\u2014wanted to go on to the university and talk about women, and do you know what happened? They were banned. Women were banned from talking about women\u2019s rights, and not only that; they were abused, they were given hateful speech, they were harassed, and they were bullied from people who called them inclusion officers\u2014from academics. It\u2019s an absolute disgrace\u2014it\u2019s an absolute disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be under no illusion here: this is nothing to do with freedom of speech from the other side; it\u2019s all about control. You will only be allowed to think, say, and preach what they believe in. That is autocracy, that is a totalitarian mind-set, and it infects our universities, like a virus. It\u2019s an absolute cancer, and like any cancer\u2014and the doctors know this\u2014you rip it out, and the best way you rip it out is some sunlight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere is an absolute arrogance\u2014an arrogance of the highest degree\u2014from the left and the radical left that they know best. The thing is that you don\u2019t, and I can say that with confidence, because I might be on the other side and I might have a different opinion, but do you know what? I don\u2019t think I know best. I think I have an opinion; I could be wrong. I\u2019m actually willing to be told I\u2019m wrong without having a bloody cry-baby in the corner\u2014\u201CI need a safe space.\u201D Grow up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ETo those academics, those of you who responded to the survey talking of freedom as some appropriated colonial concept: get out. We pay our taxes; you\u2019re an absolute disgrace. To those academics, including those who fought for COVID, who bullied and harassed other academics, those seven who stood up the Royal Society\u2014an absolute shocker and a shame. To those COVID scientists being paid huge amounts of money by this Government harassing their colleagues\u2014an absolute disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we need legislation like this. We need more legislation like this, because at the end of the day, our universities are no longer filled with academics. They\u2019re filled with activists, and their mind-sets are weak\u2014and they shake their heads on the other side. We know it\u2019s so weak, because they cannot even sustain the most coherent, simple, basic arguments without crying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EUniversity has flourished throughout the world. It\u2019s been given to New Zealand. By the way, universities are appropriated into New Zealand\u2014I just thought you left-wing academics needed to grow up. They have a lineage of free speech and ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo the final message is really simple. To those on the left, to those academics who do not believe in freedom of speech: grow up. And if you\u2019re not prepared to grow up, go and become a kindergarten teacher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022 data-id=\u0022f94ed3fe019c4f4b9eabb98de6ddd240\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f94ed3fe019c4f4b9eabb98de6ddd240\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I had written a speech, but before I read what I was trying to say initially the last speaker, Simon O\u2019Connor\u2019s words were quite unfortunate and sad, especially for somebody like me who, as a man of colour, has faced a lot of abuse\u2014including to the point when I was running for election. The sort of comments the speaker was making are the sort of comments behind which a lot of people hide behind and make those comments\u2014not just in private conversations but also out in public. So I just want to say the last five minutes were very unfortunate, and the words that came out of that speaker\u2019s mouth were really, really unfortunate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I do want to congratulate Dr James McDowall for having his bill pulled out of the biscuit tin. I won\u2019t be\u2014obviously\u2014supporting the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EJust when I had been elected as a new MP, I received a message one day from one of my constituents saying that a white supremacist group was organising a meeting under a false name at one of the community centres in Hamilton. They got in touch with me, they got in touch with the community centre, and then the community centre\u2014who see their role, their job as bringing people together in Hamilton\u2014felt that this meeting should not be organised by this white supremacist group because it does not reflect the values of the community centre. It does not reflect the value of the community, because these people were trying to sow the seeds of division. Now, the community centre cancelled this right-wing group\u2019s meeting. Now, replace this community centre with an educational institute. Right? Imagine a university or polytech where a similar event is being organised. What this bill asks is that the educational institution shouldn\u2019t be able to refuse speakers they consider extremist or harmful from speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EAccording to this bill, the freedom of expression should be protected by taking away the freedom education providers have in making a sensible decision for the welfare of their students and staff members. So, basically, if this bill goes ahead, tertiary education institutions will not be allowed to rely on their duty to eliminate or minimise potential risk of mental harm to students and staff under the Health and Safety at Work Act 2015. Not only this, the tertiary education institutions will be ineligible for funding and may have funding suspended, revoked, or withdrawn if they fail to comply with the requirement to protect the freedom of expression. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003EThis bill fails to balance the harm reduction with protection of democratic freedoms like freedom of expression. This bill believes that people should have the ability to express and speak freely, irrespective of the harm or damage that it could be due to induce on its audience. This bill cuts through the institutional autonomy provision in the Education and Training Act 2020, which already has the academic freedom provision for staff and students. What this bill does is it gives the visitors the same rights as the staff and students. As my colleague Angela Roberts recently mentioned in her speech, this can lead to students and staff feeling unsafe, students and staff feeling that their academic freedom is constrained, while also impacting on prospective students\u2014in this particular setting\u2014from being part of that education programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003ECurrently, within the framework of the 2020 Tertiary Education Strategy, tertiary education institutions are already expected to ensure that robust policies, plans, and support are in place to address some of the concerns that I mentioned around racism; around bias\u2014both for their students and their staff members. Institutions are expected to provide a safe place. Given what we have seen in this country in the last few years, it is important that we strengthen social cohesion in New Zealand. That\u2019s not going to happen with a bill like this which empowers people to be able to speak against people who might not look like them, whether it is the colour of their skin or whether they associate being part of the rainbow community or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b059b4663f4749ffbec00e604c3a7836\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Sharma! Tell us, which ideas are unsafe? Tell us which ideas are unsafe!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002234ec4a4e-60bd-4a4d-b211-10f9324db3ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc1f186d6957495e9cf1695f86ff8ebb\u0022\u003EDr GAURAV SHARMA\u003C/span\u003E: I have just given you three great examples, Simon. Bills like this don\u2019t help the discussion that we need at this point in our community, in our country. I will not be able to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258a0b7de45794385841e8945c439d7ed\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, I\u2019ve had to interrupt between every speech and I don\u2019t tend to interrupt but those of you who are meant to wear masks, please wear a mask. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022151a42086b0b4f8288af1c620508ea62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022151a42086b0b4f8288af1c620508ea62\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Members may recall a couple of years ago that two Canadian provocateurs who had very strong views about the correlation between race and IQ were denied access to public facilities in Auckland in order to hold public meetings, and that caused quite a furore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I raise that point because at the same time as that was going on in New Zealand, in Dunedin at the University of Otago was one of the world\u2019s leading researchers, the late Emeritus Professor Jim Flynn, who wrote extensively on race and IQ and gender and IQ and would have had a hundred arguments to refute Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux, the two Canadians who couldn\u2019t come. We had a choice as a country to say: do we allow them to hold their views and express them, however offensive they may be, and then kick them out of the park, or do we shut them down and prevent them from doing so on the basis that their offence could be harmful? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe irony of that is that Professor Flynn, a radical leftist who stood in the old Dunedin North electorate for The Alliance and New Labour, a very left-wing academic, was nevertheless one of this country\u2019s strongest proponents of free speech. In 2019, he wrote a book called In Defence of Free Speech, which his publisher refused to publish because it was going to be considered incendiary. He eventually got it published, and the new title was A Book Too Risky to Publish. And the sad thing about that is that Professor Flynn, in the cradle of the place where people should be able to freely express differing views, could see what we\u2019re debating tonight, and that is that our universities\u2014despite what Angela Roberts has said about this being unnecessary, who then went on to say that universities should be safe. Professor Flynn and I agreed on this: universities should be anything but safe. They should be places to take risks, to challenge, to identify, and\u2014if necessary, or if it happens\u2014to offend. I\u2019ve been on the campus enough to have been accused of being a white supremacist, a transphobe, a homophobe, a religious fundamentalist. Some of that was offensive, to which I say: I get over it, I debate it, I defeat it, I refute it. But I don\u2019t go and hide in a corner and find my safe space, as Jo Luxton would have me do, because the universities are the very place where people need to be put at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI appreciate what Shanan Halbert said. I consider him to be one of the more thoughtful members of the 2020 intake and I understand his concern. But he interjected on Dr McDowall to say \u201CFreedom of speech means freedom to be transphobic.\u201D Well, firstly, the definition of transphobic will be different just about in every single person\u2019s mind in this place. Who decides what their definition is and who was going to take offence to it? The answer to that question of who decides is not so much \u201Cwho decides\u201D, but how we decide. We decide by dialogue, a two-way transaction of ideas. And the very place to actually consider that are our universities, amongst our young who go out into the world, having often left home, particularly at Otago, to think, to be provoked, to argue, to learn, not to be safe. I think if anybody goes to university to be safe, they are in the wrong place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EDespite what Jo Luxton said and Angela Roberts said, the opposition to this bill\u2014which I believe is necessary for the very reasons of the trend that we are seeing away from free speech, even though it could be harmful and offensive\u2014is the very reason we need it. I don\u2019t want people to be offended, but if they are: argue. Argue against it. Counter the argument, refute the argument, defeat the argument, but don\u2019t hide the argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00224b0a3368b698445c8e00dbdb9b860c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b0a3368b698445c8e00dbdb9b860c68\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I stand against this bill, for three reasons. It\u2019s recognised in law and in ethics that freedom of speech is not absolute. Secondly, it\u2019s incredibly ironic and hypocritical for ACT to suggest that what they are doing is anything except limiting the self-determination of academic institutions; itself a lasso on free speech. And thirdly, as seductive as it is to look at universities as a group of institutions in their own right, actually the focus around free speech needs to be on content, not on place. So it\u2019s a red herring and can lead to all sorts of other questions about where we might want to make freedom of speech absolute and not look at the harm that is caused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut I do thank the member Dr James McDowall for getting his ballot drawn, because it has raised a really important debate. I don\u2019t think that free speech has ever before been as critical as it is now, when we weigh it against misinformation, hate speech, and some of the things we see that are going on in the world. I\u2019ll call to mind even the misinformation we\u2019ve seen in the New Zealand context this week, with Business New Zealand and its active misinformation campaign against fair pay agreements, where the manipulation of a headline was done to make something look like a fait accompli and to hoodwink the public. So we all do need to be vigilant about our right to free speech but also our right to be free from misinformation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThere are the needs for limits on unfettered free speech. Penny Simmonds raised health and safety as being incidental; if there was ever a reason for there to be a limit, it would be for reasons of health and safety. What could be more important than that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also hypocritical for the Opposition to suggest that an institution doesn\u2019t have rangatiratanga around its own free speech. If I look at how they\u2019re doing that, the bill cuts across institutional autonomy provisions in the Education and Training Act. It narrows the choices that institutions can make about how they operate. It provides for regulations about free speech. It requires a code of practice on free speech. These are all anathema to free speech and to freedom of choice. But also, the safety impacts are around students and students\u2019 decisions to learn, and that goes to the question of harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other element that I find really interesting is ACT\u2019s requirement to tag this bill to funding\u2014what a transactional way to look at the world. It doesn\u2019t surprise me, but it\u2019s really interesting that something as fundamental as academic freedom and issues around free speech would be tagged to something around funding. It\u2019s very transactional and it\u2019s very short-sighted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor talked about hurt feelings and saying that it\u2019s about crying in the corner\u2014it\u2019s not; it\u2019s about the balancing of rights. If we look at the March 15 attacks, if we look at the harm that can be done to people who are visibly different, even in my own electorate recently with the case of a young woman at school who had her hijab pulled off in what was a racially motivated attack and a religious attack, that is different from being a Catholic. Catholics can\u2019t be determined from how they look, but people who look different, who seem different, are subject to these. When I look at the diversity on the Opposition benches, it\u2019s easy to see why they may not have any empathy with that argument, because they\u2019ve probably never been in that situation themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and as we grapple with these issues that relate to individual freedom to speech, we have to ask: where is the freedom to denigrate, where is the freedom to incite violence, where is the freedom to incite anarchy, where is that line, and where is the place for human dignity? These are important questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIn going forward, we will need to debate them because we live in a context of populism, of misinformation, and of overseas funding coming into our institutions and into our society in a way where it\u2019s really difficult for people to navigate their way forward according to their values and according to what they know to be the truth. So I welcome the debate. I hope that we can take the debate to a more thoughtful level than what has been offered tonight. But these are very strong reasons why I won\u2019t be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a25393684ead4b92948c8ee5f2d717cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a25393684ead4b92948c8ee5f2d717cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr James McDowall\u2014five minutes in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022aabde489545d44ebb6c22fb8cad2548e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aabde489545d44ebb6c22fb8cad2548e\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, that was a pretty confusing contribution there. But nevertheless I thank all members for their contributions and airing their views. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about, that we can have this free debate without restriction. It\u2019s too bad that, you know, perhaps some of these views would not be allowed on university campuses, which is actually what this bill is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI just want to thank National Party speakers in particular. As Penny Simmonds said, of course the existing legislation should be enough to deal with this issue. We should not have to debate this. But the reality is we do. De-platforming does happen under very bizarre pretences sometimes. The previous speaker, Ingrid Leary, spoke about where is the line? Well, there already is a line in law with criminal activity and incitement to commit violence. These things already exist. One of the examples was somebody being racially abused, which is horrendous, but they were attacked, physically attacked. Well obviously, this bill has absolutely nothing to do with that. So I think the irony of most\u2014if not all\u2014of the Labour Party speeches is just the sheer quantity of misinformation coming from those benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI want to further just point out, because I think it\u2019s quite important, people spoke tonight, particularly on that side, about terrorism, about shootings. Several speakers spoke of the mosque terrorist attack in Christchurch, the actions of a deranged individual who came here from Australia, who never actually attended a New Zealand university. Somehow this bill will make others do something similar or had something to do with that. I think the comparison\u2014and also talking about shootings in the United States\u2014is utterly ridiculous and pretty disgusting, actually. It probably falls under their own guidelines of what hate speech might be, so anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAll the talk of people feeling potentially unsafe and then people shouldn\u2019t be allowed to spread falsehoods on university campuses, these are ideas. Who decides what is true information, what is false information, and what we need to regulate or don\u2019t. That\u2019s the point of a contest of ideas, is that you can actually air these out. They do say sunlight is the best disinfectant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about enabling bullying. It is to rein in bullying from university coordinators and vice chancellors who enforce their world view on students. I think it was Shanan Halbert, I believe\u2014the Kate Sheppard example was spoken about, given I mentioned it earlier, and the Springbok tour. Shanan pointed out that they didn\u2019t need these laws. Well look, times have changed. Things have changed. Speech\u2019s actually gotten worse\u2014well, the freedom of speech has gotten worse in many aspects of our society. Again, another Labour MP spoke of white supremacy, an event in Hamilton at a community centre. They declined to host them. Well, again, a comparison to a university is just not there. You know, it is misinformation, I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EWhat I would say in the time that I have, again, I respect the views of everyone. I think there was some good contributions, but also some very strange ones that were borderline defamatory as to my motivations behind this bill. I would say that we are creating a cohort of young people who are hypersensitive and no longer daring, no longer prepared, to basically think of the unthinkable. They\u2019re deprived of intellectual rigour and freedom on campuses. This was a chance to actually address that and put it through to select committee, perhaps, and actually take this seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51d7f1f80744bbab436b301d273dcba\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: They could still change their mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976d8852dbd14878be7cbd6b1178c804\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL\u003C/span\u003E: They could change their minds, you\u2019re right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESo we shouldn\u2019t forget that universities are there to provide us with scientists, doctors, lawyers, teachers, and so on. They are not there to provide us with State-sponsored political activists. So it is a shame that the bill is most likely coming to its end now. But I\u2019m glad that we had this debate. It seems I have potentially touched a nerve or two and started some sort of culture war; at least there\u2019s a culture war going on, on that side. Anyway, that\u2019s all for me. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fc4532483106408cacc78312029ef862\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education and Training (Freedom of Expression) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 42\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232f699bae5fc4214af3e1b448b3f2033\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002274ed2113447349209b275a67c42f1820\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00229b31026bae24404da2b3b17e3fa632d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b31026bae24404da2b3b17e3fa632d0\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is a simple bill but it deals with a complex and difficult matter of sexual harassment. The bill itself extends the time during which a person can make a personal grievance claim from 90 days to 12 months in cases of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is an invidious and difficult issue to talk about, let alone take action to try to prevent or to seek redress when it is found to have taken place. Our law does try to deal with it but it could be better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELet me set out the problem. First of all, we have a definition of sexual harassment in workplace settings in the Employment Relations Act (ERA). Section 108 says that in workplace settings sexual harassment occurs when an employer or representative of an employer (a) directly or indirectly makes a request of that employee for sexual intercourse, sexual contact, or other form of sexual activity that contains an implied or overt promise of preferential treatment; or an implied or overt threat of detrimental treatment; or an implied or overt threat about the present or future employment status of that employee; or by the use of language, either written or spoken, of a sexual nature; or the use of visual material of a sexual nature; or physical behaviour of a sexual nature that directly or indirectly subjects the employee to behaviour that is unwelcome or offensive to that employee, whether or not that is conveyed to the employer or representative, and that, either by its nature or through repetition, has a detrimental effect on that employee\u2019s employment, job performance, or job satisfaction. That\u2019s how we define sexual harassment in workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt can also occur when a customer or client engages in similar behaviour. If an employer takes action to ensure that sexual harassment doesn\u2019t happen and prevents it from occurring again\u2014ensures that employees are safe and comfortable in their places of work\u2014then, of course, no personal grievance to sexual harassment can arise. So far so good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe difficulty arises with the nature of sexual harassment. People are often reticent about sexual matters; it\u2019s not something we discuss particularly openly and we can be embarrassed to admit that something of a sexual nature has happened. Sometimes we may not even understand what is going on. Add to that the power dynamic in a workplace. If a senior worker, or an important client, or even just an older employee makes life difficult for someone, then all too often it is hard to speak out. Our cultural norms of shame and fear can hold us back. The power that another person holds over us can hold us back. We can be so upset and traumatised by the experience that, for a while, all that can be done is to retreat. And that can hold us back. The fear of retaliation can hold us back. Of course, there\u2019s still the narrative out there that she must have done something to cause this, which can hold us back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ETherein lies the problem that this bill addresses. Ninety days may just not be enough time to raise a complaint in cases of sexual harassment. This is not just a theoretical problem, we know that sexual harassment is a common work problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn 2018, the New Zealand Law Society commissioned Colmar Brunton to investigate the realities of bullying and harassment within the legal profession: \u201CWhen asked if they had been sexually harassed in a legal environment at some time in their working life, 31 percent of women and 5 percent of men said they had.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELawyer Zo\u00EB Lawton started a blog collecting examples from within the New Zealand legal profession of what went on. Here\u2019s an example from that blog. It\u2019s quite long but I\u2019ve chosen it because it illustrates the range of problems that people deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u201CI am grateful to have the opportunity to share my experiences in an anonymous forum. I wish I were courageous enough to make my comments publicly. I worked at one of the large commercial law firms in Auckland for about four years. During my time there, I experienced the following: the male solicitors ranked all of the female solicitors on a three-tier ranking system. They openly discussed women\u2019s rankings in the office. When a young female lawyer travelled up to the Auckland office to assist on a case, several male solicitors took turns to walk past the office where she was sitting and then indicated whether she was worth sleeping with by giving a thumbs up or a thumbs down. The women in the team were given nicknames that corresponded with their physical attributes. When a young woman was frustrated about a legal issue, she was asked if she was on period. A partner was talking on the phone to a client and assured the client that there were \u2018plenty of good looking sheilas in the office\u2019 and he would make sure he sent one down to deliver the documents. Many, many loud conversations in the office, during work hours, where the men discussed their Tinder exploits in graphic detail. Men who would walk past women and make gestures as if they were \u2018motor-boating\u2019 them. They thought the women didn\u2019t realise what they were doing. A partner with a creepy reputation who always found a way to end up going home in a taxi with a particularly drunk female solicitor, \u2018just to make sure she got home ok\u2019. This happened several times. I don\u2019t know what happened after they left the function.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMany of these are not offensive enough to warrant a complaint to HR [on their own]. However, looking back on the experience, I now realise that this was a toxic environment that was rife with sexual harassment.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat is just one entry in Zo\u00EB Lawton\u2019s blog. There are pages and pages and pages of them. Sexual harassment is commonplace, despite all the work we\u2019ve done in past decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut when the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment took an in-depth look at bullying and harassment in a report in 2020, it found that, between 2015 and 2019, the ERA considered just 14 cases where sexual harassment was the main basis of a personal grievance, and the Employment Court considered none. That seems odd. We know that people experience sexual harassment at work. We know it is far from uncommon. We know it causes people to leave their jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn that Colmar Brunton survey of lawyers that I referred to earlier, of those who said they had been sexually harassed, 39 percent said it affected their emotional or mental wellbeing, and 32 percent said it affected their job or career prospects. People are badly affected by sexual harassment at work, and yet the ERA hears very few cases about it. That suggests that something is wrong in our settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EEmployment lawyer Susan Hornsby-Geluk says that one of the issues is that three months is just not long enough when it comes to sexual harassment. Although there is an exceptional circumstances clause in the law, which means that a case can sometimes be heard even if it\u2019s raised after the three-month deadline, in practice, none have been because the ERA has interpreted exceptional circumstances very narrowly. So there is a problem in respect of raising personal grievances with respect to sexual harassment\u2014it\u2019s just not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOf course, the same might be said about bullying in the workplace and other causes of personal grievance. Three months is just not long enough to consider and then lay a claim. However, that is a matter that the select committee might examine. As is, indeed, the issue of when the 90 days\u2014or, if this bill is passed\u2014the 12 months begins. Is it at the first instance of sexual harassment, or the second, or the last? What if there is a pattern of low-level events, how does that affect the time during which a personal grievance claim can be made? I hope that the select committee will examine these issues and I look forward to hearing what they think might be done in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFinally, I wish to acknowledge the woman who did much of the work that lies behind this bill\u2014from assembling the evidence, to meeting with the Minister for workplace relations, and with my Green Party colleague Marama Davidson, and meeting with me. Zo\u00EB Lawton, thank you for your work. If this bill, in due course, becomes law, it will be in large part because you made it happen. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00220b570b3ff1a648ada3ed0cd5ccd4d7f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b570b3ff1a648ada3ed0cd5ccd4d7f9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaa3c2f35acc4a54b0f65f45a4725812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaa3c2f35acc4a54b0f65f45a4725812\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. And thank you for the opportunity to speak on this, the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill in the name of Dr Deborah Russell MP. This, for those people tuning in, is what\u2019s called a member\u2019s bill, where this member has had the good fortune of having won the ballot in order to get this bill considered by Parliament. And she\u2019s had more luck than I have on these matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that we in the National Party will support to select committee. And we do want to put this legislation in front of the wider public for them to comment on and give some feedback on, because we all know that the problem of sexual harassment in the workplace continues to be something that many workers and employers have to face. It\u2019s nothing new; it\u2019s been around since the dawn of time, and my sense is that there is far less tolerance for it now than there was in the past, and that\u2019s a good thing. But there is still an enormous amount of work to do to show and give a clear indication that any form of harassment is not acceptable in the workplace, let alone sexual harassment. It extends in all sorts of workplaces in all circumstances. Certainly I remember being a victim of it myself in my teenage years, and many people in society have had to deal with unwanted attention in this way and have had to cope with it and all the things that have come along with it, and have had nowhere to go, not knowing what to do, and it takes time to work its way through. So the basic argument behind this bill or this proposal is that 90 days\u2014three months\u2014in order to lodge a personal grievance on this matter may not be sufficient time, given the nature of the circumstances behind what kind of harassment went on. And so, on the face of it, definitely worth considering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the issue that we have to consider, and what we\u2019ll hear some advice from, of course, would be to say, if we were to extend the time available for personal grievances across the board from 90 days to 12 months, then that would create, I think, a lot of problems. Because you\u2019ve got to think in terms of small businesses and small-business owners and the uncertainty that would be created in the minds of those business operators having the potential for some sort of personal grievance to be raised extended over many, many months and towards a year. So at least at 90 days people have some sort of sense of certainty of how things are going and what\u2019s going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIf you extend that to 12 months, then that uncertainty hangs in the back of the minds of a small-business owner in particular because of the very severe consequences that that can have for their business if a personal grievance is raised and the whole process drags them into the ERA\u2014the Employment Relations Authority\u2014the court structure, the many thousands of dollars involved in lawyers and in pay-outs and things like that can be an absolute nightmare for small businesses struggling to stay afloat. And so we certainly wouldn\u2019t want to be adding to the challenges that those businesses have to face at the same time. So we\u2019ll be very keen to get a sense of how this would work in practice and whether or not this particular aspect, sexual harassment, is a special case. Then, naturally, we would be very cautious about extending this to all sorts of other cases of personal grievances so that that uncertainty that many small businesses would face would be extended further. So that is something that we\u2019d be very keen to hear from in the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo just for those people tuning in, what happens is this is a bill that\u2019s been introduced by a member. We\u2019re having our first reading now, and if it passes, which it looks like it will do, then it goes off to the select committee, who will call for submissions, and everybody in the public will have an opportunity to have their say. I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll hear from many people advocating for this extension. We may hear from some people voicing a note of caution about how this should operate and some of the dangers therein, and then we\u2019ll reflect upon that and report back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a process that we\u2019ll be looking forward to, but overall we in the National Party do share deep concerns\u2014well, do share a common opposition that everybody in this House, I\u2019m sure, extends to sexual harassment in the workplace or, indeed, in any part of our lives, and wanting to send a very clear message that it can\u2019t be tolerated and that all New Zealanders, male, female, whatever, should be able to work without feeling the oppression that comes from ongoing sexual harassment. So there is no clearer message that can be sent, and so we\u2019re looking forward to the discussion and thank the member for bringing this opportunity before the House, and look forward to the further debate this evening. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u0022abec68ed03394c1992407ad66912af1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abec68ed03394c1992407ad66912af1f\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This evening I rise, with gratitude, to speak on the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill. I say \u201Cwith gratitude\u201D, because this is needed legislation, and I\u2019d just like to thank my colleague Dr Deborah Russell for bringing this to the House. We\u2019ve heard the need for this from two of our colleagues already, and I imagine that we will hear more before the evening is up. But I just wanted to add to the words that my colleague Dr Russell said, and just to define for the House, again, what we mean when we\u2019re talking about sexual harassment. Sexual harassment, as we\u2019ve heard, is any unwelcome or offensive sexual behaviour that is repeated or is serious enough to have a harmful effect, or which contains an implied or overt promise of preferential treatment, or an implied or overt threat of detrimental treatment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EThis bill is asking for a very simple change to the Employment Relations Act. Basically, what it\u2019s asking for is that it will extend the time that a personal grievance involving sexual harassment can be brought to 12 months. I understand that, in the select committee process, this may not be where the bill lands, but certainly that\u2019s what sits before us at the time. And we know that this is primarily an issue that affects women, although by no means exclusively. We\u2019ve heard from Mr Goldsmith this evening that he was, sadly, a victim himself. I can say that I, too, have been a victim in my past, of sexual harassment. And I would be astonished if anyone here could say that they had not. Although I obviously can\u2019t speak for any of my colleagues, I can speak for my friends and for people who I\u2019ve spoken to on this issue, and they confirm that this is a widely felt issue of deep concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EAs Dr Russell said, the Colmar Brunton survey did reveal that 31 percent of women said that, in their lifetime of work in law, they had experienced sexual harassment. Thirty-nine percent of the people said\u2014and that included the men\u2014it had affected their emotional or mental wellbeing, and 32 percent said it affected their job or career prospects, so this is no small issue. Nineteen percent of lawyers said that they had resigned from their job, and so why is it, do you think, that we see so little reporting? Well, people report fear of consequences; they fear that things will be made worse by reporting. The fear that this is not felt to be serious enough. And that\u2019s what the lawyers were saying they felt. Others report concerns that this won\u2019t be kept confidential, and that we know that reporting sexual harassment, in itself, is traumatising. So we can understand that there is a need for a little extra time so that people can come to terms with what\u2019s happened to them, to maybe get the help that they need, get the support that they need to ensure that, when they do come forward, they are not at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s undoubtedly true, as I said, that this is an issue that primarily affects women but, as well as affecting men, we know that our rainbow wh\u0101nau are also disproportionately affected by issues around sexual harassment. Men, though, and women, I challenge you to not let this be our future. At 54, it breaks my heart that this is still a reality; that I\u2019ve had to listen to young people come forward and describe changes that they\u2019ve made to their careers as a result of experiencing sexual harassment. We know that men are victims too. Men and women and everyone: I need you to step up. I\u2019m going to put a challenge. I\u2019m going to ask you that, in addition to passing this piece of legislation, we actually challenge it every moment, and at every opportunity, any issues that we see in front of us, of sexual harassment. Don\u2019t tolerate it, because this needs to stop. This is going to go some way to helping, this bill, and that\u2019s why I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002236b838f5cdeb4183940d79f8f20f16f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236b838f5cdeb4183940d79f8f20f16f1\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to get to rise this evening and provide the Green Party\u2019s support for the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill in the name of Dr Deborah Russell. I\u2019d like to congratulate her on the luck of getting it drawn but also for seeing a very discrete intervention that would make a difference and bringing that legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also want to echo Dr Russell\u2019s acknowledgment of Zo\u00EB Lawton and the work that she has done to bring survivors\u2019 voices into the public to help reform our systems. It is incredibly important work and we have much work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation, in extending the time that people have to raise a personal grievance that involves allegations of sexual harassment from 90 days to 12 months, does just make sense because of the dynamics of sexual violence as well as, often, some of the dynamics in the workplace that relate to sexual harassment. It makes sense to provide more time for those cases to come forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI note that in the consultation that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) released in, I think, October 2020 around bullying and harassment at work in that document, they noted that they\u2019d heard concerns about the lodging of cases with the Employment Relations Authority\u2014that an employee must raise the personal grievance with their employer within 90 days of the alleged action. That is noted in that consultation as a problem, so it\u2019s great to see that being addressed through this bill here. I\u2019m still waiting. MBIE put out the consultation on that in 2020. It closed in March 2021 and we\u2019re still waiting to hear from the Minister what the Government\u2019s next steps in response to that public consultation will be. I\u2019ve got to say I\u2019m waiting with bated breath, because it is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe have an incredibly complex system for responding to sexual harassment. We have the Employment Relations Authority, we have the Human Rights Act provision, and we have the WorkSafe provision, and we have our criminal justice system. And they don\u2019t fit neatly together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAll except for WorkSafe require two parties and require the victim of the abuse to come forward and be potentially challenged and go sitting across from the person who they have experienced violence from. Rather than in the WorkSafe example, where they\u2019re not necessarily having to\u2014and there\u2019s someone questioning this idea and saying they should have to, when actually it\u2019s possible to investigate a situation and find the evidence and hear from the person accused. Nobody\u2019s ever saying that that would not be part of it\u2014but without requiring people to sit in the room together and be against each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo there is a lot of work that needs to be done in the system. When the MeToo movement was really erupting, and this is part of where it came back into public consciousness\u2014that was in 2018 and we were really challenged as a country to do better. The Government took actions in terms of making sure that WorkSafe actually started responding appropriately to sexual harassment. That work has started, but more needs to be done, and this piece of work sits inside of that work being done by MBIE to look at the employment relations response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe do need to get on with this because we\u2019ve had like a wave of public concern around sexual harassment in the 1980s and we all thought we\u2019ve got it fixed. Then it went out of public consciousness because we get awkward and uncomfortable and don\u2019t want to talk about it, and then nothing happens and everything reverts back to the toxic environment that had been before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis time, we have to make sure that we sustain our efforts and change our systems in a way that will ensure those who are causing harm are held to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002290b7aebfeade442fb8e9299f53b41a16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b7aebfeade442fb8e9299f53b41a16\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, it is a real pleasure to stand and speak to this bill in the name of my colleague and very dear friend, Dr Deborah Russell. Dr Deborah Russell, I have to say, is one of the staunchest feminist women I know, and I utterly adore the fact that she has this bill in her name. I just really want to congratulate you, Dr Russell, for this bill, and appreciate the fact that if any bill should come before this House in your name, it should be this. So congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ELook, the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill\u2014long name, but very clearly does some really useful things. What we know about sexual harassment\u2014and we\u2019ve heard from each and every speaker who\u2019s kind of given us a bit of a definition: sexual harassment, under the Human Rights Act, and I\u2019m just going to abbreviate it, is any unwelcome or offensive sexual behaviour that is repeated or is serious enough to have a harmful effect. I think we all, sadly, probably understand what sexual harassment is, from either our own experiences or family or friends. So I don\u2019t think we need to go into that in any more depth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EHowever, what we do need to do, as a society and in this House, is to acknowledge the great harm that occurs with sexual harassment. We also have to acknowledge the shame that is attached to it, and this is one of the reasons I am quite delighted that, at the moment, the bill is proposing that we go from a 90-day period to a 12-month period. I hope that that sort of time frame sits in a longer period, because the shame that people feel in having been sexually harassed, and the experiences they feel\u2014they need to spend time to get the courage up, generally, to report. They may have had to leave their employment. They may have had to go into counselling or some kind of support to be able to take this step and to report. And that is because, quite often, in a gendered society, in a patriarchal society, we blame ourselves as women. And I just want to acknowledge that for those who are concerned about sexual harassment, to take courage and to do what needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to come very quickly to the overall beliefs and values that my colleague Jan Logie spoke about, and I want to just acknowledge the work of Te Aorerekura, which is the work around family and sexual violence, the policies that we have. And in that, the very first stage of this work is around changing societal views and values, which is where I think this bill sits. It sits at the beginning of the process of change. And I also want to acknowledge what Jan Logie said in regards to\u2014we did sexual harassment in the 1980s, and then we forgot about it, and it\u2019s back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to just acknowledge the fact that we here in this Parliament have had some quite consistent and serious matters raised in regards to sexual harassment. So I am holding up here Bullying and Harassment in the New Zealand Parliamentary Workplace, which is a Debbie Francis report. We have done some significant work in this Parliament to make some changes, and I think that this piece of legislation will add to our the safety. So I would just like to acknowledge the fact that the first thing that we have in this House, for parliamentarians and for those in Parliament\u2014the first thing that we say here is we show that bullying and harassment, including sexual harassment, are unacceptable. For me, that is incredibly important, because it shows us as leaders in this country, but also to those who work here that this is unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo I would like to commend this bill, absolutely, and I would like to acknowledge my friend Deborah Russell for bringing this to the House, and I thank you. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d33342744ece4ecc86bcc413291bf264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d33342744ece4ecc86bcc413291bf264\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I call\u2014[pauses]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a162515323cd4dcc9217e21e4a9e06c8\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Baillie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8c1ccbb8e634de5a4fb4bb818b7e417\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I was expecting to call your next door neighbour. Sorry, Chris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u002255acaaec76694357ba2bb6b38aff7454\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255acaaec76694357ba2bb6b38aff7454\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to take a call on the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill. Certainly a lot less contentious than the last couple of bills we\u2019ve heard tonight, which must be a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis bill is an uncomplicated bill that extends the period a personal grievance related to sexual harassment can be brought from three months to 12 months. It reflects the view that due to the nature of sexual harassment, victims often take longer to come forward. ACT will support this bill to select committee. The current 90-day deadline puts a relatively short time frame to advance a grievance, despite the grievance being serious in nature. There\u2019s a reasonable case to suggest that the grievance would still be present after the extended period of time. New Zealand has a pretty poor record around sexual harassment and violence, and ACT is empathetic to the serious issues of sexual harassment in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things that will be heard during the select committee process that may require more information. The impact on business is difficult to quantify, but I can\u2019t imagine it having a huge effect on anything. The current personal grievance process is very employee-biased, and any misuse of this bill needs to be treated very seriously. I was talking to a business owner last week, actually, who had one of his labourers take his ute home without permission, and he got a drunk driving charge. The employer couldn\u2019t trust him. The next week, on Monday actually, and he\u2019s up for a personal grievance because he reduced his hours. Or the waitress who was asked by her female manager to smile more when serving customers a couple of months ago; that led to a personal grievance for bullying. So we need to be really careful to make sure the personal grievance process is used how it is meant to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI think we will hear in the select committee that this issue, and it\u2019s been alluded to earlier by a couple of speakers, isn\u2019t gender specific, and I think many examples won\u2019t fit the expected profile that we all are going to assume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWe look forward to ironing out some of these issues in the select committee process and progressing this bill. We support this bill. Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00225d19c92a5e48432aab25cfc10af6f67f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d19c92a5e48432aab25cfc10af6f67f\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Look, it\u2019s a pleasure to stand to take the opportunity to speak on the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill. First and foremost, I\u2019d like to congratulate my colleague Deborah Russell for knowing where to change the law in the right way. We know from previous members\u2019 bills that sometimes a very small change in the law can make a very significant change in the daily lives of people in New Zealand, and I think this bill does exactly that. So the simple change of enabling a longer period to be able to lodge a personal grievance gives people time to process what may have happened to them, and to do that in a way that they feel comfortable and confident in being able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI think it also sends a strong message that we need to be more accommodating to enable people to come forward, and that\u2019s exactly what this bill does. So currently only 90 days is able to be done for a report of sexual harassment. That can be difficult because that behaviour may be ongoing. That behaviour may have been occurring for a number of years. So coming to terms with that and being able to come forward is an important part. It is an imperative that employees have time to consider what has occurred and to feel safe to raise it with others. This bill will ensure that there is time to process and proceed in a manner which best suits that person and their family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe current deadline seems an arbitrary number of days that imposes a deadline on victims of workplace sexual harassment and makes it less likely that they could potentially formally raise concerns about the behaviour of their colleagues. This bill will improve the personal grievance process for victims to consider what has happened to them before deciding to come forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI think importantly, it sends that message that it is OK to come forward. I\u2019d like to share a story. My first job was when I was 15 years old, working in a supermarket, and I worked alongside other females at a similar age. Our boss at the time was sexually harassing one of the members of staff, and we did not know what to do. We knew it wasn\u2019t right. We knew what he was saying was kind of a joke, but it wasn\u2019t a right joke. Then it proceeded that he was offering driving lessons to one girl in particular after hours, unbeknown to her parents. It was me who at the time raised it with the superiors. I was terrified when I did it, but I knew that it was not right, and that member of staff was transferred to another supermarket. It was only when he was transferred that the victim broke down and cried. It was only then that she came to the full realisation that she had been a victim of sexual harassment. That experience, that stepping up and making a stand, got the full support of my female colleagues and formed and forged my experience in workplace relationships going forward to know that you need to call things out when you need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I would like to hope that this bill sends a strong message to all those 15-year-old women or men in workplaces around New Zealand who are yet to be full adults and know what\u2019s going on, or maybe who just think you\u2019re along with colleagues in any of those circumstances. If you do not feel comfortable or do not feel right in your workplace, you have the right to challenge that, and you should not be curtailed by 90 days in order to be able to carry that forward. So I commend Deborah and her ability to take something that needs to change. I look forward to more laws in this space to continue to grow this strength of having good and strong workplaces where everybody can feel safe and enjoy their work every day. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00228967372f73ba47f8a4230d0511ed6fcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228967372f73ba47f8a4230d0511ed6fcf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on this member\u2019s bill in the name of my colleague Dr Deborah Russell, and I thank her for bringing it to this House. Sexual harassment is certainly very different from the sort of situation which Mr Baillie described about a worker taking a company car without permission. It is right that we treat the way that you might raise a personal grievance about those two issues very differently. But I\u2019ve also reflected on the speeches in this House and about what sorts of situations one might raise a personal grievance in. I heard the words of my friend on the other benches Jan Logie ringing in my ears, when she said, \u201CWe get awkward and uncomfortable and nothing happens when we can\u2019t talk about these things.\u201D What is the cost of that inaction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe cost of that is in situations like when I was in year 11 at high school. I went with my friend to a doctor\u2019s appointment and I sat down with her in the waiting room, distracting her with a quiz in a Dolly magazine. As soon as we got into the office, she burst into tears, and it was up to me to explain to the GP why we were there. I told this GP that my friend had been working in a cafe for three months. Her manager had started hugging her on the first day that she was on the job. He would text her at random times of the night. He would hold her hand while he gave her the best shifts in the roster. He would hold her arm while in front of customers. One night, when he was dropping her home, he pulled up on the side of the road and undid his pants. We were in the waiting room of the doctors, waiting for an appointment because my friend was worried she was pregnant. It was the GP who told these two 15-year-old girls in our school uniforms that this was sexual harassment at work, among other things. As she organised tests and medication for my friend, the GP told me that we could get help for someone who had been harassed so severely at work. She wrote my friend a letter confirming the medical exam and she told us that she\u2019d give evidence if my friend wanted to take it further. But my friend never did take it further. She felt shame and so much embarrassment, even to this day, about her own naivety. But I look back on that and see someone who couldn\u2019t get away from a manager who was acting publicly like he owned her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo this bill would improve the personal grievance process available to people in her situation, people who need time to think on the experiences that have happened to them, people who need to speak to their friends, people who need to seek the guidance of their doctors, of their church ministers, of their teacher, of people who they trust. This takes time, and 12 months to be able to do that as a young woman, for anyone in this situation, is what we need to improve this law. It\u2019s a useful change, because everyone has the right to feel safe at work and, more importantly, have the time to safely raise issues with their employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe bill is a small change but it will significantly impact on workplace culture and, particularly, silence towards sexual harassment. This culture of silence towards sexual harassment is something that all of us need to address. It\u2019s right that we\u2019re doing it in a member\u2019s bill and with the support of the Parliament. I would implore all members around this House to take note and pay attention to the way that this bill strikes a careful balance between the rights of everyone involved in the employment process and the grievance process, because we need to get this right. It needs to be enduring. We cannot have a system where we revisit these rules, because the cost of not doing anything and the cost of not talking about these things and the cost of not making constant progress to improve the situation of workers\u2014whether they are young, whether they are women, whether they are working in jobs where they are disempowered to raise issues with their employers\u2014would fail all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EEnding violence against women, wherever it is\u2014whether it\u2019s in the workplace; whether it\u2019s at home\u2014has to be a priority, and changing our culture around raising these issues is a big part of that. This bill does it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, speaking directly to people who might be going through this, it\u2019s not your burden alone and it\u2019s not the friend who was in my position who would be alone, is what I would say to them. There is a framework of legislation that my colleague Jan Logie outlined that deals with this sort of thing. The health and safety requirements at work require everyone to stamp out this kind of behaviour\u2014not just your boss, not just your manager, not just the owner; everyone around you has a role to play in this. Making these processes easier for people and their situations is something that we can do in this House very proudly. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022abb9db0839b54151936d436409132832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abb9db0839b54151936d436409132832\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can\u2019t say that it\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this bill tonight. What I do say is that it\u2019s sobering to take a call and that it\u2019s a trigger for many who have been through the experience of trauma associated with sexual harassment. I commend Deborah Russell in bringing this bill to the House for something that is profound and has a profound impact on people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo I often speak about members in the House speaking from a level of experience, and for those of us who experienced trauma and the effect that that has on our lives, it does take time to deal with it. So the purpose of this bill is to extend the time for an employee to raise a personal grievance alleging sexual harassment from 90 days to one year. The impact of trauma on a person is something that does take time, and many who will be listening will find that this will be a trigger from past experiences and that it\u2019s important to have the time to be able to process. So this bill is supported by the National Party, and it would seem that it has cross-party, throughout-the-House support for it to go to the select committee, which I understand will be the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI listened to Dr Russell as the first speaker talking about this bill and the personal trauma and experience that Zo\u00EB Lawton has pursued with Dr Russell and also with this bill coming to the House. It prompted me, also, to look to the legal definition of sexual harassment, and it prompted me to go to the WorkSafe website, which outlines a guide there for persons who have been subjected to sexual harassment. There\u2019s a guide there on the WorkSafe website, and a definition of sexual harassment has been addressed under section 108 of the Employment Relations Act 2000, and Dr Russell read and detailed that. On the WorkSafe website, sexual harassment is also defined by the Human Rights Act 1993 as any unwelcome or offensive sexual behaviour that is repeated or serious enough to have a harmful effect or which contains an implied or overt promise of preferential treatment or of detrimental treatment. So the definition of sexual harassment is both in the Human Rights Act and, specifically, section 108 of the Employment Relations Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThis bill is important because, as I\u2019ve referenced and listened to Dr Russell sharing Zo\u00EB Lawton\u2019s experience and other persons\u2019 experience of trauma particular to sexual harassment, it takes time, it take courage, and it takes support to be able to confront and to be able to expose what\u2019s going on. Trauma\u2019s debilitating, it\u2019s crippling, it\u2019s sickening, and it\u2019s disempowering. This bill is invoking a process to empower, to encourage, to promote, and to confront those perpetrators of sexual harassment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe Education and Workforce Committee will go through the detail of this bill to ensure that there is consistency with amendments to the Employment Relations Act in addressing grievances for sexual harassment in ensuring the appropriate extension of time from 90 days to 12 months is invoked. On that note, the National Party commends this bill to select committee for further deliberation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u00221a67a3439a4b4f56a11da28b85c97d3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a67a3439a4b4f56a11da28b85c97d3d\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute privilege and honour to speak in the first reading of this bill tonight. Before I start, can I also congratulate the member and my colleague Dr Deborah Russell on bringing this kaupapa\u2014this really important kaupapa\u2014to the Whare and starting that change that we know is needed in this space. While it seems like quite a small change in terms of the change to the Employment Relations Act, amending section 114 of the principal Act to extend the period that the PG, or the personal grievance, may be brought to 12 months from the nine months where that personal grievance involves sexual harassment. It has big ramifications, much bigger than just that simple change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve heard many of the other speakers talk tonight around the difference in terms of sexual harassment as a PG, especially for women, but, actually, for anyone who has experience of sexual harassment at work, it is about that power imbalance and it is about making sure that people who have experienced that have the sufficient time to process that. It\u2019s not that I think anyone who has ever experienced any kind of sexual harassment or sexual violence can truly process what that means for you. For everyone, it\u2019s different, and it certainly warrants the time to be able to not only seek the support that you need to work yourself through that traumatising experience but also the courage and support that you might need to report that and also take the personal grievance, if you have the courage to do that. Unfortunately, as other people who have spoken tonight have said, that is not always the case\u2014certainly, with people who have experienced sexual harassment or sexual violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo, again, although this is quite a small change, it is a big change in terms of making sure that we give that ample time for people to be able to seek that support. I would also like to add that while it is a high proportion of w\u0101hine, or women, that do, where they can, report the sexual harassment, there are others as well. Other people mentioned tonight are the takat\u0101pui, or the rainbow whanaunga, who also are prone to experiencing sexual harassment and other bad behaviours in the workplace, but it is also men, we know, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo this is another bill, I believe, that goes to the bigger mahi that this Labour Party is doing and the Labour Government is doing in terms of making sure that workers are safe. No matter what that looks like, workers are safe when they go to work, and this is part of that bigger mahi we are doing with the fair pay agreements. We are making sure people have a voice. We certainly are making sure that women have a voice and that they feel encouraged, that they will be listened to, and that there\u2019s a process there for people to be able to take their voice and their concerns through to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EIt is really heartening to hear that others are supporting this across the House as well. We know, not just as women but, actually, even those that are not, you have your mothers and your sisters and your daughters\u2014nobody wants to know that their loved one who happens to be a wahine or a takat\u0101pui wh\u0101nau goes to work and that they\u2019re feeling unsafe or they\u2019re feeling pressure, like our colleague Arena Williams spoke of tonight, around being pushed into a situation where they have no control over what that looks like for them. So, again, a small change, but actually massive ramifications in terms of being able to support our people who need this space to be able to figure out where they\u2019re at, process that trauma, and then be able to make sure that they stand up for themselves and shift that power imbalance and remind people that this is not OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EI just want to thank Dr Deborah Russell again. This is a really good bill. This is something that is really at the core of what the Labour Government stands for, and it\u2019s for that reason I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00220508f0f41a254f17bbc60aa26ebb1876\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220508f0f41a254f17bbc60aa26ebb1876\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr Deborah Russell\u2014some minutes in reply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf82451006934e328b9b936cd2e57de1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf82451006934e328b9b936cd2e57de1\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will make this a brief call, given the time of night, just to summarise on the last matters of this bill. I\u2019d like to thank my colleagues from across the House for their support of this bill. I appreciate that my colleagues in the ACT Party and the National Party have promised support as far as the select committee stage, but I think that discussion at the select committee will be very, very useful indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA couple of the speakers raised issues around what it might mean for businesses. Of course, the cheap answer is that it has no consequence for businesses where there is no sexual harassment. That is the cheap answer. The better answer is actually to consider the balance of rights and responsibilities of both businesses and employees, and to work out how we can make that a little bit better. The contention of this bill is that three months is not long enough for employees. I have suggested 12 months would be a better balance between businesses and employees; I will leave the select committee to examine that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank my colleagues who pointed out where this bill fits in the whole pattern of bills around sexual harassment and sexual violence. That was really helpful to put it in context. I\u2019d especially like to thank my colleague Arena Williams for her story, which brought life to the whole matter, which made us really understand why it is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA final thought: I often say patriarchy harms men too\u2014patriarchy harms men too. And, of course, men too can be sexually harassed, but this is a gendered issue. It is typically women, but men do get sexually harassed too. Nevertheless, if we sort this out it helps all of us to get along better, to run our businesses better, to be better employees, to fit together better in this world. And, indeed, fixing this problem, which might look as though it concerns mostly women, is something that, actually, helps us to dismantle the patriarchy and it helps us all. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9f8c73eff5d45ef9857c91c55b4bd12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9f8c73eff5d45ef9857c91c55b4bd12\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill be considered by the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6063d26c3f44974b023da2e69468141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6063d26c3f44974b023da2e69468141\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House is adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.02 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220518622ab8b624a24b8e8c98451b2bcf4b21000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"