"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec6694dadef04d698612fe5c7350e033\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 28 JULY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022394d040426184e68b790b1732579fdae\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 28 JULY 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000002\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea1af601318f469cb8cc8635f8ffadbf\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c2303c3041e4eaaac5ac55757583878\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002259818d091e9740e6adb6989172bc516d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259818d091e9740e6adb6989172bc516d\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df03477843964a1e80773b6bef894c74\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9e32c4d76394e64b28fc8cf3c1c2ce0\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226e210dd49906493fb846ec6b62ccad6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e210dd49906493fb846ec6b62ccad6e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Legislation to be considered next week will include the first readings of the Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill, the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, and the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill; the committee stages of the Three Strikes Legislation Repeal Bill and the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Declarations of Inconsistency) Amendment Bill; and the third reading of the Data and Statistics Bill. There will be an extended sitting on the morning of Wednesday, 3 August. The balance of Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0ad7173bf0e4dd1bc546cd191176a10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0ad7173bf0e4dd1bc546cd191176a10\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for that. I wonder whether he could give the House an update on the time line for the Water Services Entities Bill, given the very, very, very large number of public submissions on that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002239dfa787888d40c68424b790f02d534b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239dfa787888d40c68424b790f02d534b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019ll be a matter for the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00227f52c18923a848ca8338f080fa5ab1a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f52c18923a848ca8338f080fa5ab1a3\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I noticed that the Organic Products Bill has dropped from No. 8 on the Order Paper the last time we discussed this, to No. 12 on the Order Paper now. Last time we asked how that was going, he said it would depend on how fast the House moved, but, obviously, if it\u2019s dropping back on the Order Paper, that\u2019s going to mean it\u2019s going to take even longer. So I just wondered if he had any insight into when that might come to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d31f7b1ae1494a90ad5103e3fc03481f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d31f7b1ae1494a90ad5103e3fc03481f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very happy to offer the member some hope and to say to him that I do think it\u2019s likely we\u2019ll make some progress on the bill in the next few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002219fb9292948a43328a25a85d9e6c544a\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9a7893696784ca2aadb604999bac9aa\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002205a384b497104a59b60b592ed0c6f71b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a384b497104a59b60b592ed0c6f71b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been presented. A paper has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00228a4db49e52024fb590b27673bf9ed242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a4db49e52024fb590b27673bf9ed242\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Lakes District Health Board, 2021-22 annual plan, incorporation statement of performance expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225059dc2d58ee4f04b804ef490e6ff335\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225059dc2d58ee4f04b804ef490e6ff335\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. There are quite a few of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7d6b0a9ce6b473eb97ff1dddc96b55c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7d6b0a9ce6b473eb97ff1dddc96b55c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Education and Workforce Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Education, Vote Education Review Office, Vote Tertiary Education, and Vote Labour Market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Environment Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Conservation, Vote Environment, and for Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Audit, Vote Finance, Fiscal Strategy Report 2022, and Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2022, and for Vote Revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Customs, Vote Defence, Vote Defence Force, and Vote Foreign Affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Health, and for appropriation within Vote Building and Construction, isolation and quarantine management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Justice, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the 2022-23 Estimates for Vote M\u0101ori Development and Vote Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Regulations Review Committee on the examination of COVID-19 Orders presented on 27 June 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the 2022/23 appropriation within Vote Public Service \u2013 supporting implementation of a Social Wellbeing Approach\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022-23 appropriations within Vote Internal Affairs that are the responsibility of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector, and the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Oranga Tamariki\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Pacific Peoples\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Sport and Recreation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on the 2022/23 Estimates for Vote Building and Construction, excluding the Isolation and Quarantine Management appropriation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022/23 Estimates for Vote Transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229a0e3e629ec84adca56308cf5289a7ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a0e3e629ec84adca56308cf5289a7ea\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report of the Regulations Review Committee is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002247b981cac71f416897329f5fe3804424\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247b981cac71f416897329f5fe3804424\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224f8b8ec7aff24a108abd3879520f5412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f8b8ec7aff24a108abd3879520f5412\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022613837b5eaef4ecbbe697db1f9d405e9\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbc57b034f61496a8759ea44fcb10f27\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ad0bb9cfbfb4ec3b7cfa7022eaf2399\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccfb9f6456cb45f5a653cd60880bf2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccfb9f6456cb45f5a653cd60880bf2ab\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What reports has he seen about trends in training and apprenticeships?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002215cb7c7c013043b08df3f3373c50f0e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215cb7c7c013043b08df3f3373c50f0e6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Good news. I\u2019ve seen the latest figures from the very successful Apprenticeship Boost initiative, part of our COVID-19 support initiatives that have been helping employers to keep their early stage apprentices employed and in training: 18,507 employers have now been engaged, 26,000 apprentices are currently eligible for an Apprenticeship Boost payment, and, in total, 49,000 apprentices have so far benefited from the scheme. As part of this year\u2019s Budget, Apprenticeship Boost has now been extended through to December next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c64056ce2dda4b2398aa6aeff0a887f6\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Is the overall number of apprentices increasing, and, if so, by how much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220761f5cb0d484f35bce3f31754c2a7f3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Even more good news. I\u2019m advised that there are now 56,965 active apprentices. That\u2019s a 61 percent increase on June 2019, prior to the pandemic, and a 90 percent increase since June 2017. Vocational education is back on the mat and it is thriving in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b85837b9e734d83be60774b4478c969\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: What other information has he received on other vocational COVID support initiatives that the Government has put in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c2abb49e9864147b86380fb830b6b35\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As a temporary measure until the end of this year, we put in place free vocational training and apprenticeships under the Targeted Training and Apprenticeship Fund. The latest enrolment data shows that 215,375 people have been supported though that fund since July of 2020; that includes 98,000 apprentices. The Targeted Training and Apprenticeship Fund makes a range of qualifications in targeted areas and all apprenticeships free until 31 December this year. It is another example of the real work that this Government is doing to tackle the skill shortages that we inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f44a1ffcf6924afd8e3bf7a4a751167d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8890e3b70d141669382b7d06d3141c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8890e3b70d141669382b7d06d3141c0\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CI regularly reinforce my expectations that Waka Kotahi and other agencies spend money in a proportionate and reasonable way\u201D; if so, in which cases, if any, has this expectation not been met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002207209c42a68a4420a04eb79a440ba407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207209c42a68a4420a04eb79a440ba407\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I certainly stand by my statement, and across the investments that Waka Kotahi makes. I am confident that the agency delivers expenditure that is responsible and delivers benefits for New Zealand through investments, such as the two-laning of the previously one-lane Motu Bridge on State Highway 2 at Gisborne; the investment in the Tamaki cycleway that we recently reopened; the investment in the State Highway 5 safety improvements outside of Rotorua; and, of course, bringing home Transmission Gully, which the previous Government goofed up so badly on. Of course, across a $4.5 billion spend every year from a statutorily independent agency, there will, from time to time, be expenditure that is not in accordance with my expectations. I\u2019ve recently spoken about some of that expenditure across the Road to Zero programme, and I continue, as other Ministers do, to talk with my agencies to make sure that all expenditure is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218500e4c57047f0864cc254e73d2b5b\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that it is proportionate and reasonable to spend up to $311 million on a 4\u00BD kilometre shared path between P\u0113tone and Ngauranga, at a cost of $69,000 per metre, and is this the most expensive cycleway in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aeb3c86b2bf48a39baa4898d458fb95\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The Ngauranga to P\u0113tone cycleway, which I joined with local government leaders to sign the documents on earlier this week, is one of the most keenly awaited infrastructure projects in the Wellington region. It will provide safe walking and cycling options for people to connect between Lower Hutt and Wellington City. It has been widely supported, in fact, across the House, across central government and local government, and across people right across this region. Our Government is one that invests across a range of transport infrastructure. The old days of just investing in roads will not get us where we need to be in terms of a safe, resilient, and low-carbon network. I know that\u2019s the thinking of the ACT Party, but our Government will make sure that all New Zealanders, including people here in Wellington, have real and safe transport choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d75172b6424207be46cb66712da043\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was clearly about the Minister\u2019s view about the acceptability of the price of the cycleway per metre, and he did not address that at all. He just talked about the cycleway and various people\u2019s attitudes to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3752a7887d4ca4b8a686ccdb46293d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, in my opinion he has addressed it\u2014quite clearly addressed it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7ee4f81e3c46b198769fa49b00a11d\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that it\u2019s proportionate and reasonable to spend $44,000 on an engineering review of two giant spinning top sculptures on the Waikato Expressway, and how much did the spinning tops themselves cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111c293e820045468670afd7ba89e827\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I do think it\u2019s appropriate for the agency to have engineering reviews to ensure the safety of any large structures that it installs. I think it would be bizarre to suggest the Transport Agency should not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd87127dd8c349adba82a2886dbc78e2\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it is proportionate and reasonable for the New Zealand Transport Agency to spend $25 million on fitting out its new, plush Wellington office at a cost of $2,870 per square metre, or could any of that money have been better spent repairing the potholes peppering our highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df6034ae2db488ea6cb7874dfe3369e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is entirely reasonable for any significant delivery agency to have adequate office space for its staff. In the case of Waka Kotahi, it\u2019s been canvassed in this House in written questions. The current two premises have to be moved on from because of the end of lease periods and earthquake requirements. The new premises have gone through a standard procurement process. And I will stand by our Government\u2019s investment in road maintenance, which has increased by 40 percent since we inherited Government, as opposed to the previous Government, which flat-lined investment in road maintenance to fund its pet projects in the transport portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ce1541de274cba8a329dc46eb7d06e\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that it\u2019s proportionate and reasonable to have spent $370,000 on an opening ceremony for the Transmission Gully motorway, and does he agree with the Mayor of Porirua who said, \u201CThat money would fill a lot of potholes.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350abbd70e0b479aaa28ace43e495d38\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is reasonable when these significant transport projects are finished, that have had a degree of large disruption for communities, for communities to be brought together to celebrate those events. After that event, I did convey to Waka Kotahi that I believe it is important that costs are minimised as much as possible, which is why I was very pleased that for the opening event for the Waikato Expressway last week, which our Government has delivered, less than $100,000 was spent on that, which compares very favourably indeed to the $1.1 million the previous National Government spent on the Waterview Tunnel opening event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589d82584c97401ba21f30a216381978\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Everyone knows that questions are asked in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c565282b2ecd4de283cf2767536c7cee\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that it is proportionate and reasonable for Waka Kotahi to spend taxpayer funds to research and identify M\u0101ori experiences, expectations, and priorities for transport in New Zealand, and how is this more important than fixing unsafe roads for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9c8a8bd0d34e5facd4d263d2fdb8fc\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I do believe that it is important that the transport network delivers on the aspirations and needs of all New Zealanders, and that is why Waka Kotahi has undertaken that piece of work. In respect to the second part of the member\u2019s question, as I\u2019ve outlined already, under our Government, the funding for road maintenance has increased by over 40 percent from what the previous National-ACT Government provided when it was in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c16923f52e49fbac9626817fda6578\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that it is proportionate and reasonable for Waka Kotahi to spend over $72 million of its share of the Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving business case, and how is taking three years to prepare a $120 million business case proportionate and reasonable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022539b60ad902f44eaa1b7c829e3c7bffd\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I do fully accept that the other side of the House wrote Wellington City off as a \u201Cdying city\u201D when it was in Government, but that is not the approach of our Government. We believe that it is time to make decisive investments in a low-carbon transport network. [Interruption] Those were Mr Key\u2019s comments, which that member supported at the time, I\u2019m quite sure, even if he doesn\u2019t now. We are going to make the investments in safe walking and cycling, a high-frequency, high-capacity mass rapid transit, to finally decongest the city and give Wellingtonians the transport choices that they have lacked for so many years. I understand there\u2019s a lack of ambition on that side of the House for transport in Wellington, but we\u2019re getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238409b1d0bce4972a9ea8b2eb6a7e81b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6675a6135304dfd90c209c382ae8b30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6675a6135304dfd90c209c382ae8b30\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What announcements has she made regarding He Poutama Rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2c2b140dbb441409fc70b623d27cb5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2c2b140dbb441409fc70b623d27cb5e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I recently announced that funding has been approved for nine new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes across the North Island. These programmes will work with 880 young people who are not in education, employment, or training and are at risk of long-term benefit dependency. The Government is focused on helping our rangatahi get the skills and support they need to choose a career and life pathway that gives them and their wh\u0101nau a better future. We recognise that some of our rangatahi need more support than others. He Poutama Rangatahi is unique and it works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c250e71089744313bb3d814cf9725c09\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: What results has she seen from He Poutama Rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ce79dd6baf4ee89a37060f1b3fb365\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The basic principle of He Poutama Rangatahi is that local communities are best placed to reach our rangatahi and help them work through the barriers they face to move forward with their lives. Since it was launched by my colleague the Hon Willie Jackson in 2018, 8,378 rangatahi have enrolled in the programme, with only 12 percent having withdrawn or unenrolled. The programme has also seen 3,869 rangatahi move into employment, education, or training, with many more still enrolled in the programme and working towards achieving their goals. Additionally, 76 percent of the young people on the programme are M\u0101ori, emphasising the importance of that local approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c0684f83a3146d68d53b15e6b0c612d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: What other Government initiatives will have an impact on people participating in He Poutama Rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253fc032b11c5491cb5ee9bfbf54f3426\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Of the 8,378 people enrolled in He Poutama Rangatahi, only 35 percent have a driver\u2019s licence at the time of their enrolment. We know that having a driver\u2019s licence is a basic prerequisite for up to 70 percent of jobs. Additionally, not having a driver\u2019s licence is frequently a young person\u2019s first interaction with the justice system. This is why the Government invested $86.5 million into helping 64,000 people obtain driver\u2019s licences as part of Budget 2022. This important investment will help many people, but it will particularly help our rangatahi on their journey to achieving their full potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002210db19db7533441bafc7d9a2e7aeb143\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022352f148286d34278a1b5398e7c389a66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022352f148286d34278a1b5398e7c389a66\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he consider that fiscal and monetary policy decisions in the past two years have in any way exacerbated the cost of living crisis; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7a76ea0efce43969e22394dfd3a784a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7a76ea0efce43969e22394dfd3a784a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The fiscal and monetary measures enacted in early 2020 were in response to a pandemic-related one-in-100-year economic shock. This was a time of considerable uncertainty, with unemployment forecast to reach significant levels. I consider our economic response has been instrumental in the record low levels of unemployment we now have. If we did not provide that support, the economic consequences for New Zealanders were dire. In all likelihood, the households still managing the inflationary impacts of global energy prices now, many of them would also be out of work. New Zealand\u2019s response was in line with the rest of the advanced world, and was generally supported by Opposition parties at the time. We are now seeing tighter constraints on the supply side of the economy, and both monetary policy and fiscal policy are responding accordingly. Fiscal policy is also supporting New Zealand households through the current inflationary spike through targeted, temporary support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a2f8da9df5a408aa9a11192a33c93de\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Arthur Grimes, former Reserve Bank chair, that the current Reserve Bank\u2019s \u201Cleast regrets\u201D policy on unemployment meant they were paying no attention to inflation over the past two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0757cde709944adb5ab96b8b9ba6416\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I prefer the comments in the editorial in the Dominion Post, which says the Reserve Bank of New Zealand did a creditable job during the pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225edf798fe1f34b8a8e87525751a0aa5c\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Who does he think knows more about monetary policy, a former chair of the Reserve Bank or the editor of the Dominion Post?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f001b7cc50dd4f0495517176da9649bd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that the former chair of the Reserve Bank knows more about monetary policy than either I do or the member does, but he would know no more about it than the current chief executive or chair of the Reserve Bank, who the Dominion Post judged did a creditable job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eea262afd55437b8eff5c2a0f142796\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former Reserve Bank chair Arthur Grimes that the Government\u2019s decision to change the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus to a dual mandate was a mistake and has helped lead to record high inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd66e329bb514dd397794ba0a4c429f8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I would observe that the dual mandate is common overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56b78e1a3ec46b9b9bab590df93d207\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen reports that one in four New Zealanders are now struggling to make ends meet on a monthly basis, and does he acknowledge that if the Reserve Bank hadn\u2019t unleashed such a tidal wave of cash, then things could be different?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e01322c7e44420ab1e85dc117372593\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister have, on many occasions, acknowledged cost of living pressures. I would observe that Treasury forecasts are for wage growth to exceed inflation in every one of the next four years, as they have in the prior years under this administration. In respect of the current pressures, of course, there is a payment on 1 August going to 2.1 million eligible New Zealanders, which will assist with those pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290eb03b1f9e848748f662ddcd0868ea8\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with economist Dennis Wesselbaum, who says, \u201CWhile there was way too much money put into the system by the Reserve Bank, most of the blame for the current inflation situation should be placed at the feet of the Government\u2019s response.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eabd0d07d4cc41beabe820d4a3c09486\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would agree with Todd Muller, who on 26 May said, \u201CThis is a time in our history where money needs to be spent.\u201D, and with Paul Goldsmith on 11 May 2020, who said, \u201CNo Government could have stopped COVID-19 creating huge economic problems \u2026 credit where credit is due. The Government\u2019s speed at getting the wage subsidy scheme up and running reduced early economic calamity.\u201D I would also agree with similar comments from Simon Bridges, who, of course, said that it was too little by saying that the wage subsidy had helped employees for 12 weeks, but it hasn\u2019t helped businesses with zero revenue pay overheads like rent, power, and stock. I would not agree with captains of hindsight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc4741ad225d47509a944a48507c05d6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Will he support members of Parliament from all parties except Labour to encourage Labour MPs to agree to an inquiry at the Finance and Expenditure Committee into the economic response to COVID-19, or is it his position that the Government did everything perfectly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762975c46fc84480b3eb774b469f50b5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We won\u2019t be agreeing with that suggestion of a separate inquiry in addition to all of the other processes that enable inquiry into those same issues. One of the reasons why I don\u2019t think I like the National Party\u2019s approach to independence of the Reserve Bank is that, of course, it was a former leader of the National Party, the Hon Don Brash, who, whilst head of the Reserve Bank, colluded with the National Party to obtain an electable place on the Labour Party list whilst he was Governor of the Reserve Bank\u2014appalling practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47b5bbf585a41f3905ccecfc99c607b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that sort of accusation of corruption against a member of the public, a former member of his House, someone who does not have the ability now to defend himself in this House, is exactly the sort of thing that brings this House of Representatives into disrepute, and if you\u2019d like to uphold the reputation of the House, I think you should ask that member to withdraw and apologise for those comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022005cf793ed8f47c8a87fd24c15974709\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, if any member of the public who is not present in the House has an objection to something that is being said about them in the House, there is a process that they can follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022926881330c604acbb31f8f21288141bc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Further speaking to the point of order, the very strong word that was used by the leader of the ACT Party was not used by me. It was his description.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a8ac194c404cac97dfe38453ab3730\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the accusation was that someone in high public office used their power to gain personal political favours. If that\u2019s not an accusation of corruption, nothing is. He\u2019s now dancing on the head of a pin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223fd4c0354cf847f1a521e28608d2d46b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fd4c0354cf847f1a521e28608d2d46b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I will say is that I listened carefully to the answer. The Minister doesn\u2019t actually have responsibility for part of that answer. That\u2019s one thing. The former member is able to apply to respond to what has been said\u2014Standing Order 160. I think every member, in my opinion, should be careful about what they say even if we do have privilege in this House. We\u2019ll go on to the next question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d373efd931ff41a9a0c3309b387b818d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1206eec171b40619d11c2ba1235475f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1206eec171b40619d11c2ba1235475f\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: How can eligible New Zealanders ensure they receive the first Cost of Living Payment on 1 August?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f56f5aff0abb4f05b0ffbd97d8d1392d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f56f5aff0abb4f05b0ffbd97d8d1392d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s cost of living payments are the latest step we\u2019re taking to help New Zealanders pay their bills. The first of three monthly cost of living payments is due to be made on Monday at around $116. Around 2.1 million people are eligible to receive the payment if they earned $70,000 or less in the 2022 tax year and are not entitled to the winter energy payment. There is no need to apply for the payment, and it will occur automatically if Inland Revenue has the recipient\u2019s bank account details. Therefore, I\u2019m urging people to make sure Inland Revenue has their up-to-date bank details. I encourage all eligible New Zealanders to log into myIR on the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) website and check their bank account details are up to date. This will ensure they receive the payment on 1 August if they\u2019re eligible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221944b35b66374988a9a5b2e3b2fb8cf5\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are eligible for the cost of living payments, and when will the payments be made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248fdebc262024a20ad753cfbbcc18abf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are an estimated 2.1 million Kiwis eligible for the cost of living payment. This sits alongside the Government\u2019s winter energy payment, and together these payments will support 81 percent of New Zealanders aged 18 and over with their bills this year. For eligible New Zealanders that have lodged their bank account details with IRD, the three main payment dates are 1 August, 1 September, and 3 October. Each payment is $116 roughly, totalling $350. This equates to a $27-a-week increase in take-home income for 2.1 million New Zealanders over this three-month period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022677244f46a9a4562a99db9af4f407c59\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Will people still receive the payment if they lodge their bank account details with IRD after 1 August? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1e248386cb43ea9a8573d99427c7c3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We already have bank account details for 90 percent of those eligible, but we\u2019re seeking details for the rest. If, for some reason, eligible people do not get their bank account details lodged with IRD before Monday, they will still receive the $350 worth of payments if they provide bank account details at a later date. While eligible New Zealanders will have until 31 March next year to provide their bank account details, I would encourage eligible people to do this soon\u2014it\u2019s not compulsory, but it is encouraged\u2014either online at ird.govt.nz through their myIR account, or by phone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022900e4216a9034abd9ca58d4ca0519c8b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220520ef852609410e861302b3024a9cf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220520ef852609410e861302b3024a9cf0\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What was K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s net surplus or deficit after tax for the third quarter of the 2021-22 financial year compared to forecast, and is she satisfied with the performance of K\u0101inga Ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6bf30247c274785ac8822462133c232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6bf30247c274785ac8822462133c232\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister of Housing (M\u0101ori Housing))\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: I am advised that for the third quarter of the 2021-22 financial year, K\u0101inga Ora had an actual deficit of $13.6 million compared to a forecast deficit of $46.8 million. I am advised, for the actual year to date, as at 31 March 2022, K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s net deficit after tax was $82 million compared to a forecast net deficit of $115 million. This is $33 million better than forecast. In answer to the second part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275411bdc68274b2fa0af2b0c24e26f9c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has she taken, if any, in response of the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development report to her showing that K\u0101inga Ora is projected to record a $662 million deficit for the 2023-24 year and that, by 2025, interest costs will be 39 percent of its rental cash flow for the year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf44c1e67c34cc8b6662bee853c448c\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: We continue to look at the settings that continue to inform the work that K\u0101inga Ora does in the housing programme of this Government. What we do know is that as a result of the challenges through the pandemic, we\u2019ve already changed a number of those settings not just through K\u0101inga Ora but, of course, some of the other schemes that allow us to (1) build more houses and (2) get more people to buy their first house. So we\u2019ll continue to monitor that as we head into the coming year and beyond, and make sure that the settings are right to make sure that we can answer the housing crisis that we\u2019re dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22b4dcf4faf4b1496e06cc7f44d14e7\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why has K\u0101inga Ora only built 21 net new State houses in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1e605bd52e4a3eaa6cbaa735f185c9\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to continue to push back on the assertion from that member that we\u2019ve only built so few houses. The actual number is approximately 1,815 new houses in the past year, ending 30 June. And, if I can, in the primary question the member asks about the most recent quarter of the last financial year, and I can tell that member that over 215 new net homes have been built in that period. So I continue to push back against the numbers that that member continues to persist with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022750ac9963f7143e9ba7f5df9d6034ef7\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that to build new houses, particularly where we\u2019re aiming to increase the intensity of the houses, you first have to demolish the houses that were sitting there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9934d9a17e4f1e8f6196a9b9e39268\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I can indeed confirm that. As we look across the housing footprint for K\u0101inga Ora, as we\u2019ve looked to expand the housing portfolio and the number of houses that we have available for people, that work is currently under way in a number of cities, and in particular in Auckland, where we see an exponential growth in houses. And, of course, as I said in my previous answer, the net numbers that that member continues to persist with in this House are clearly incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a8adcd86354bf29ca301012eaf7b1b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to his remark just now about pushing back at apparently my erroneous assertion, is he saying that the Government\u2019s own housing dashboard does not show that from June 2021 to May 2022, the net increase in new State houses built by K\u0101inga Ora is just 21 houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb154775c0684796a8ae3d45a18e0a1b\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am pushing back on the numbers that that member continues to place in this House, and I continue to say that this Government has a strong and proud record of delivering homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e928705249546f79173e63ffcc4d926\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is she satisfied with K\u0101inga Ora spending $24 million on an office fit-out at a time when it has built just 21 net new State houses in the last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de82a26a86e49018160c7674b402dec\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The process undertaken to house K\u0101inga Ora saw a number of sites being brought into one in both Auckland and Wellington, and I support the work that\u2019s been done there and also, if I can, acknowledge the comments made by the Minister of Transport, who said that the procurement process that was undertaken to do that, \u201CI am completely satisfied with.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224319944c76ed465cbc47cce555c30b23\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has she told her officials to only give her oral briefings on K\u0101inga Ora financial performance because she is worried that written briefings about K\u0101inga Ora get leaked to me and the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067a88837ab14ef5a0b9716e8da5df72\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I can\u2019t exactly say what she has said to her officials. And with respect to the assertion made by that member about the leak, look, on this side of the House, we\u2019re focused on building homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b4a444271c747d991c713ddfcf4df50\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6cd6f26fb5d40aea2df929ca3e8bdcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6cd6f26fb5d40aea2df929ca3e8bdcb\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What recent announcements has she made regarding the Milford Opportunities Project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d42e07b6bd3c40b7982348ba87029fd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d42e07b6bd3c40b7982348ba87029fd5\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Today marks the next step in the delivery of a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape how we do tourism in Piopiotahi / Milford Sound. The mass tourism approach of pre-COVID times, with 870,000 visitors in 2019, was putting the natural environment and infrastructure at this UNESCO World Heritage site under significant pressure. Today we have announced an impressive line-up of experts to drive the project forward, grounded in conservation and cultural values.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022281a6076a7244cf7ad104fdc87954cf4\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Who has been appointed to the Milford Opportunities board, and what skills do they bring to the table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd12e1c397d44b0903f2b6f6142a362\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Can I ask Joseph Mooney to stand, withdraw, and apologise. Your conversation was so loud I did not even hear the question being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207471321eee34eca84988e17ea52d98b\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0e1b9677c5452ba15f238f173bdcbe\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, how can someone be asked to withdraw and apologise for being too loud but not for accusing a member of the public of corruption?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c36d5fbdd79b48b093c43e83ebf6825b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have addressed the former issue and that is concluded. The member knows the rules. When Mr Mooney has withdrawn and apologised, David Seymour will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6f4688ce464474a8c97180ffc05194e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Point of order. Mr Speaker, I ask you to reflect on the consistency of those three rulings when you have a chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ed9685ff894f1f866c667b5b488f6d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can leave the Chamber, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270125e02848c485c9153f70ed709789c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll get Rachel Brooking to ask that question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c4444107c7461b90631c44d58eab17\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Who has been appointed to the Milford Opportunities board, and what skills do they bring to the table? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c3782f56c0412c87e0661f9c341865\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: As the jewel in the crown of New Zealand\u2019s conservation estate and arguably the eighth wonder of the world, we can\u2019t afford to get this wrong. That is why I\u2019m excited to announce this impressive line-up of experts who will help drive this project. This includes mana whenua representatives Muriel Johnstone and Michael Skerrett, as well as Michelle Trapski, Bill Day, and Andrew Patterson, who collectively have extensive knowledge in sustainable tourism, design, and management. The board will be chaired by Dr Keith Turner, who has decades of experience in economic and environmental policy. The board will also be supported by local government representatives from Southland District Council and Environment Southland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221178ef1e23a942c2b48a0604b2c688ca\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. This question is essentially the Minister reading out board appointments, which she issued a press release about. Is this seriously what the Government is using its parliamentary questions for today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227354eafaf9d7432f8dfd543bb383fa78\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And your point of order is what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f54ddd44c54be885bb7409937d6452\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister intend that the Milford airstrip be closed as part of this process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bb183c8d1534654a750a6c4a22e846c\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: We are now engaged in a feasibility process, which is being managed by the board and the project manager, who will soon be appointed. As part of the master plan, that is a feature that the board and project leader will be looking at. However, as Government we will wait until we see the results and the report from the project before we make any decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283191d0903da4d0d8949e1f6761311ca\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What are the other next steps for the project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f729d9f31c54489aa83297a0f4ec7c7c\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: With the ministerial advisory board in place and the Milford Opportunities Project unit being established, they will undertake the feasibility testing of the master plan recommendations, including getting feedback from key stakeholders and international visitors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c85ed54e05fd47a092eb94a39f7b378f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022de0691c5b29442d1a893af5be6dd89fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de0691c5b29442d1a893af5be6dd89fd\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with comments made by the former chief executive of Otago Polytechnic, Phil Ker, about the Government\u2019s polytechnic reform that \u201CNot a single dollar has been put into improving outcomes for learners, not a single dollar to strengthening the regional providers, and so the issues that we had before Mr Hipkins started this misguided venture are not only still there, they\u2019re worse\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cff4fceb78194b4eb3c64868205ce74c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cff4fceb78194b4eb3c64868205ce74c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I respect Phil Ker, and I do recognise his considerable contribution to vocational education in New Zealand, and I respectfully disagree with him. I note that he was not a fan of the vocational education reforms from the beginning. The model of vocational education that we had in New Zealand wasn\u2019t sustainable, and it wasn\u2019t delivering the skills that our employers are crying out for. We hear examples of that every single day, with employers complaining that they cannot get access to the skilled labour that they need. That is a sign that our vocational education system has been under delivering for New Zealand for a long time\u2014not to mention the fact that most of our polytechs were in a great degree of financial difficulty that was getting worse. I absolutely reject the assertion that additional funding hasn\u2019t gone to improving outcomes for learners, particularly coming from the National Party, who are arguing we\u2019re spending too much money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861b7bcb313a4623852a2144113dc985\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen further comments by Phil Ker \u201CYou can\u2019t address the problems of the magnitude we have in this sector at the moment without redundancies.\u201D; and does the Minister consider those redundancies should occur at the head office of Te P\u016Bkenga, where there are no teaching staff, or out in the polytechnics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223956cb29b2f74d318556e4b303146205\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e43a3193ef400383ef0dcf95b3668c\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement in the 2018 Government commissioned ITP Roadmap 2020, which stated, \u201CExamination of economies and mergers suggests that few, if any, recurrent savings result.\u201D; and, if so, why did the Minister then proceed with the merger of the polytechnics and industry training organisations, which has only caused disarray and a significantly larger deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b995c9bf204f4965a81e45f21744eb5c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, no. In regard to the second part of the question, the member is wrong in her assertion. The deficits that the consolidated polytechs are producing at the moment are actually lower than some of the projected deficits that we were expecting to see without reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d1959e2cf74b2588a571b0fa4ce470\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that when we came into Government, the state of the polytech sector was such that not only were they not delivering on the trainees and tradespeople that we needed but their financial situation was dire, to the point where a cheque had to be written out for $33 million to save Tai Poutini Polytech on the West Coast from absolute failure and disaster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2cb4db7a5dc4e17867dbae15bfba737\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that. And I can confirm that Tai Poutini were not the only ones; in fact, Unitec would have had to completely shut its doors had the Government not stepped in and provided them with the cash flow they needed to keep operating on a day-to-day basis. WelTec and Whitireia were in a great degree of financial difficulty, and if we\u2019d not intervened there, the capital city would have lost its polytech provision as well. Those are just some examples, and, in fact, the situation was continuing to get worse for the majority of our polytechs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8668da81aaf4b8ba3358c5ee74d1e50\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister write on the recently released TEC monitoring report on Te P\u016Bkenga, \u201CI\u2019d like to see a plan for some early wins re network efficiencies ASAP.\u201D? And isn\u2019t this because all he has achieved to date is disarray and a significantly larger deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022714b64eb185543f8ae0b8f67df5ddd0b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it recognises the fact that enrolments at Te P\u016Bkenga have declined significantly this year, and they do need to make sure they\u2019re responding to that, as they would have had to do regardless of whether or not Te P\u016Bkenga had been established.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa21c61fdb864bedb1bebea903c79123\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Which of the following statements does the Minister consider best describes Te P\u016Bkenga, his mega merger of the vocational education sector: Phil Ker\u2019s comments \u201CSimply an ego trip on the Minister\u2019s part\u201D or Merran Davis\u2019 comment \u201CEveryone is in Disneyland.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265f6a1a5e84c4264a15d422df7c4dc07\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Neither of the above, and, in fact, the two people that the member has quoted have almost opposite concerns about the process. Phil Ker was opposed to the process from the beginning. Merran Davis was in favour of the process at the beginning and, in fact, was concerned that not enough progress was being made fast enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cbd1448680d4f00aade6c2adf372103\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9fa96db16264f28a15518a6e1d10a68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9fa96db16264f28a15518a6e1d10a68\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CThe time for fine words on climate change is over, we actually need to start the transition\u201D; if so, how does the Government\u2019s transport policy reflect this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b61f59fbe5b846708edd2f05b393f68a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b61f59fbe5b846708edd2f05b393f68a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. I stand by my full statement that \u201CGetting more Kiwis into clean cars is a hugely important part of reducing our emissions. The time for fine words on climate change is over, we actually need to start the transition.\u201D And the good news is that we are making progress. The Clean Car Discount has seen more than 57,000 light electric and non - plug-in hybrid vehicles registered, resulting in significant emissions reductions across cars coming into New Zealand, with a roughly tripling of the numbers of zero-emissions vehicles month on month, and a 15 percent reduction in the emissions intensity of new vehicles coming in. Combined with other measures, including the Government\u2019s $1.2 billion climate emergency response fund, this means that across transport, the Government is on track to meet its first carbon budget under the emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae834f42ab7d44609221eced2a0f27d4\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: What is the precise increase in carbon emissions from the Government\u2019s over $1 billion fuel tax cut, as determined by the Climate implications of policy assessment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1f7b4e6b5846fdbdb79e0071811f10\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The advice that I have been provided is that the total possible impact on emissions that is modelled is between 0.7 percent and 1.2 percent as a result of that particular policy. Now, of course, our overall goal is to continue reducing emissions, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s important to note that we remain on track, across transport, to reach our emissions reduction targets in the first carbon budget period, but in this case, the Government did believe it was very important to provide critical support to Kiwi families facing those cost of living pressures. Of course, we have also balanced up that investment with half-price public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244dfdbf68b25456bbba1d63ac6891beb\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t spending over $1 billion on targeted support for people who are struggling, with larger cash payments or benefit increases, be of more help to them and the climate than fossil fuel subsidies that also benefit rich people, petrol companies, and hurt the climate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6bc56c051c042f9aad5c791fe8ddf04\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, the Government has made investments across that whole spectrum. We have made the investment to ensure that people are buffered from the increase in petrol prices that have been experienced. We have made the investment in half-price public transport, and, while it\u2019s not in my portfolio area, we have, in fact, made investments via direct payments to people below the median income, which will be starting to come into effect from early August.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286df69d60f58464c91c94b9e7e2f9362\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government spending more than $1 billion on fossil fuel tax cuts when it could not find $360 million in Budget 2022 to fund hybrid electric trains to preserve and increase inter-regional rail services that reduce our dependency on fossil fuels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276439ae5fcca4b6888be96391b313104\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Because, in any Budget, the Government always has choices to make about the investments that it might wish to make. In Budget 2022, I note that $1.2 billion was invested through the Climate Emergency Response Fund, including hundreds of millions of dollars in building a more resilient rail network, including a $350 million transport choices package to help more Kiwis access public transport and safe walking and cycling options, and we continue to work with Greater Wellington Regional Council around their proposals for improved rail services, as the member reflects on in her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d83f1649df3425dac334d08d8fe3164\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm the Infrastructure Commission review of the evidence produced for Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving in early May said that option 4, not option 1, as the Government has announced, was the best choice from both a climate and economic perspective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ceaeffc94aa4e1e9e519af19a2c171b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that Te Waihanga made that assessment based on the base urban development cases that were presented at that stage, and that the preferred option of option 1, that Cabinet selected, was based on a significantly higher model of urban intensification, to ensure that there were greater carbon reduction benefits achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234bf1d207b634e1d853defe01b219109\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: What is the date and title of the advice he\u2019s just referred to about increased intensification from option 1, and why was it not provided to the Infrastructure Commission before they undertook their review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a7d740bde246448dc25cf74daaeba7\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have the precise date and title to hand, but I\u2019m happy to provide it to the member. I\u2019m referring to advice that Cabinet received to inform its decision making at the time that it did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227db8fa1b0e6e43f6a7a6461e50f7fa34\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022df475ba038cf421abbad8f443ba47aba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df475ba038cf421abbad8f443ba47aba\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has the Government made about supporting public transport users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022052622053c504be79eeb38b66c1e41a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022052622053c504be79eeb38b66c1e41a4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The Government recently announced an extension to cost of living support for Kiwi commuters through the extension of half-price public transport and continued reductions to fuel excise duty and road-user charges. The cut to fuel excise reduces the cost of filling up a 40 litre tank of petrol by over $11, and for a 60 litre tank, over $17. Half-price public transport sees an average person who pays two $5 dollar fares a day save $25 a week. Inflation is rising across the world, and cost of living pressures are making it tough for New Zealanders right now. As a Government we continue to recognise and respond to the level of need; in this case, I\u2019m very pleased that we\u2019re particularly able to support those New Zealanders with the increased transport costs they face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff36ae303c7243b8b236d2a9bbc730c7\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: How is the cost of living support consistent with the Government\u2019s response to the climate crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f152e9e7cf7d45e192242a4ea20791bb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: It is important that the transition to a low-emissions, high-productivity economy is fair and equitable for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3bf7cf304d043658496274a8766821d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: This is so wide of the wickets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57a265776b34a4d8ed40176c718f015\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: By reducing the cost barrier for using public transport, we\u2019re demonstrating a commitment to providing New Zealanders with more options for how they live, work, and move around. In doing so, we\u2019re providing more opportunities to embrace mode shift and to tackle the climate crisis head on by making a dent in our transport emissions. And I\u2019ve received very good feedback when I was using the buses in Christchurch last week, Mr Brownlee, when everyone was enjoying those half-price public transport fares. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58072acf39244058f5c5ee56c06d815\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231da9094ee604eb2a3cf41226dc04a13\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What continued support will the Government provide to promote increased use of public transport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228711007803fb4703b848a57b8427fbb6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: From the beginning of February, Community Connect will be available nationwide and permanently, enabling those people with community services cards to access half-price public transport. This will mean around about 1 million Kiwis will have access to cheaper transport, and it will also help us to reach our climate change targets. This is a Government committed to investing in accessible, affordable, and convenient public transport services right across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f90ecbef84eb485aa58bca3392968974\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6b6b8f813eb4b709e323aa32ca0c3b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6b6b8f813eb4b709e323aa32ca0c3b5\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does she agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that \u201Cit will not be the policy of any government I lead to embark on another substantial reform of local government or governance unless it is sought and unless there is broad consensus amongst local government about the need for and the direction of change\u201D; if so, does she believe there is broad consensus among local government on her Three Waters reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4945ad42efc4d1691b1776ffe2f55db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4945ad42efc4d1691b1776ffe2f55db\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I absolutely agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement in the context in which it was given. On the second part of the question, I draw the member\u2019s attention to the statement from Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) on 25 July which said, \u201CThe local government sector has been advocating for water reforms for decades. While each council will have their own view on the proposed model, everyone is unified on the need for reforms of some kind. LGNZ is committed to a pragmatic approach to the reforms, because we know if reforms don\u2019t go through now, it will be back to the political too hard basket.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c14c3590d8b41f3b91554ffc455b2b1\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government is committed to only undertake reform of local government if it is sought, why won\u2019t she allow councils to opt out of her three waters proposal instead of legislating a compulsory transfer of water assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5844e7e81a478592a9b56b5ecb9209\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: This reform has been taking place over at least the last 4\u00BD years. And once the economic modelling had shown the huge cost burden that would weigh down on councils who have reached their debt ceiling limits, that was the point at which it was just unsustainable to accept the status quo, and an opt out model would not provide a way forward for councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88dd8ec7e5243e982d891831a8ddd41\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Why has advertising for executive positions in the water services entities already begun before a single submission on the bill has been heard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4d45f2b9e74f8aa52f510770723f57\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Because momentum is taking place and councils want certainty that there is a transition plan to successfully ensure that once the water service entities are stood up, there is movement already in place to ensure successful implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb84f4e1bd044049b05e9a8edd4ba414\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: So what does she say to the people who submitted on three waters, expecting their voices to be heard, only to see decisions like appointing executives are already being made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a8be63100ec420d882413bc31289951\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: That there is a plan in place and that\u2019s it really important to ensure successful transition towards the water reform that we are proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5fdcc7d84ae44bfa961a7619e77ac50\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. To the Minister, what advice has she received on the impact on ratepayers, especially rural ratepayers, if reform is not followed through in water services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d77928c88304ae9becadddbb8459b33\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: That the burden of cost will fall to ratepayers and, especially in rural, provincial areas, it will be too unaffordable for them. We need to find a different way forward. That\u2019s what this Government is doing rather than accepting the status quo that the Opposition is promoting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227defb696da0c4cb192677c525fc75877\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: What will she do to reassure New Zealanders that their voices will be heard on three waters, and that this won\u2019t be a repeat of the consultations with councils, which took place after Cabinet had already made decisions behind closed doors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022315ee4c076b44ba8ae8ef4aa7966f1af\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: The bill currently before the Finance and Expenditure Committee enables the public to have a successful conversation around what the reforms are promoting\u2014they will be heard. The select committee is going to be engaging with the great number of submitters who have already proposed their views around the reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e78620225a4af2b63bd11a406bde2f\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is the Minister aware that the Finance and Expenditure Committee has plans to travel throughout the country to hear submissions on the Water Services Entities Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302f2e60b9024fd28bcd4fe0e6705a9f\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I am, and I support fully the parliamentary process to go out and engage with the public and hear the submitters and their views on this particular set of proposed changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f264d6f31648465cb1a686f248a3102e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Youth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022becd1bb64f914c26ae1211da5c7fbfea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022becd1bb64f914c26ae1211da5c7fbfea\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Youth: What recent announcements has she made about Youth Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022aabf9b622a1149d3afa693f182e8c67c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aabf9b622a1149d3afa693f182e8c67c\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for Youth):\u003C/span\u003E Recently, I announced the commencement of the tenth Youth Parliament. While this is a six-month programme, the two days that participants spend here in Parliament is a crucial component of that and often cited as a highlight. Last week, almost 140 young people aged between 16 and 23 travelled to Wellington to participate in mock debates, caucus meetings, select committees, and oral question time. These were all our Youth MPs, Youth Parliament press gallery members, and, for the first time ever, a Youth Clerk. I just want to recognise the contribution of the young people who travelled from across the motu, members from across this House who supported them, the press gallery, and the staff from the Ministry of Youth Development and the Office of the Clerk for the tremendous effort that collectively has been put in to making Youth Parliament 2022 a success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0bf5727f6524d0ba90dd043d71de09c\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: Why is Youth Parliament such an important event?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d68ec9c3e674e65bfb81b126a8548a2\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve met many young people who are incredibly passionate about a number of issues that impact them. Youth Parliament gives them the opportunity to better understand how Parliament\u2019s processes work and for their views to be heard by decision makers, other young people, and the general public. It\u2019s an excellent way to encourage an apolitical civic engagement with youth across the motu. I met with many of them while they were here and listened to their speeches, and I\u2019m pleased to report that the future of our democracy looks bright.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d085416a9a5481f8a10254319701138\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Minister heard about the diversity of this year\u2019s Youth Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbe7e98d2a248f6a05786bf99a10d61\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: From the start I wanted us to collectively ensure that young people from a range of diverse backgrounds had the opportunity to be part of Youth Parliament. This year\u2019s Youth Parliament was one of the most, if not the most, diverse Youth Parliaments in the event\u2019s 30-year history, with around 35 percent of participants either M\u0101ori or Pasifika, 23 percent identifying with an ethnic community, 48 percent female, and 6 percent identifying as gender diverse. This is an increase all round from the Youth Parliament held in 2019. I understand from conversations with the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities that she was also very pleased with the diversity of this event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ac3842c7ad34aad8f9132d90ab4490d\u0022\u003ESpecial Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e39396f2f44b4e36aa68c02b5520ba21\u0022\u003EPetitions Committee, Report\u2014Petition of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand: Leave no-one behind \u2013 Campaign to address digital exclusion \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2ea801fb84d44d69c043366e57023a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2ea801fb84d44d69c043366e57023a9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Hon Jacqui Dean, I\u2019m going to ask all members who are standing on the floor having conversations to, please, leave if you\u2019re leaving. Hon Carmel Sepuloni, you need to take your k\u014Drero outside, please. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220daf6e3ebdff4ae7aa721dcf635dfd92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220daf6e3ebdff4ae7aa721dcf635dfd92\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Chairperson of the Petitions Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand: Leave no-one behind\u2014Campaign to address digital exclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis is a rare and exciting day for the Petitions Committee\u2014the mighty Petitions Committee. This is our second special debate on an issue that the committee has determined to be of sufficient national interest and importance that we have recommended that a special debate be undertaken. I would like, and I do hope I\u2019m not going too far out of the Standing Orders, to welcome and acknowledge the members of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand (CAB) to the House. I want to welcome them all. I want to thank them very much for providing the Petitions Committee and Parliament with such a comprehensive and well-thought-out petition. I\u2019ll just remind them that they\u2019re not allowed to lean on the\u2014just not allowed. Yeah, you\u2019ll get told off! It is a big day for us because it allows us, on the floor of this Parliament, to debate some pretty critical issues, which go wider even than digital inclusion, the issue of digital inclusion. This issue goes much wider than, for example, being able to access Government information online. Yes, that\u2019s one part of it, but the issue of digital inclusion and those people who are not included, who feel they are falling behind, leads to a number of problems for those very people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m now going to reference my sister, Sarah, who is a disabled lady. She\u2019s lovely. She lives in a retirement village because she\u2019s a bit vulnerable. She is the most wonderful person, who\u2019s spent so much time helping residents in her community with online matters simply because a number of older New Zealanders, whether they are in their own homes or whether they are in communities, do have trouble accessing services online. I want to thank my sister, Rah\u2014that\u2019s her name\u2014and all of those people in our community who do give of their time to support their friends and their neighbours so that those people can engage online, for the very simple things like contacting Inland Revenue, like contacting the Ministry of Social Development, or it might be wider than that. In fact, it can be doing a bit of online grocery shopping, and particularly now in these COVID times where older folk are rightly nervous around going to the supermarket or going to the chemist or going to do their jobs in town. The ability to order online is important to them. But what if they don\u2019t have a device? What if they don\u2019t have the connectivity? What if they don\u2019t have the confidence to go online? That is digital exclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo, back directly to the CAB\u2019s petition, I\u2019m going to read it out. I think it\u2019s very important to put on the record of this House just what the Citizens Advice Bureau of New Zealand are asking for: \u201CThat the House of Representatives urge the Government to address digital exclusion so that no-one is left behind because they can\u2019t or don\u2019t wish to engage online.\u201D Citizens Advice wish \u201Cto implement accessibility and inclusion standards for public services that include offline channels\u201D; and they also wish \u201Cto ensure Citizens Advice Bureau is resourced to address the impacts of public services going online\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIn our deliberations in the committee and in my reflection before speaking today, one simple question occurred to me, which, of course, had been raised in this very good submission. That is: what are we trying to achieve on moving to an online basis? And are we taking everyone in New Zealand with us? I think that is the critical question here. Having an online presence is marvellous for people like me who are relatively competent online. Goodness me, I was even able to apply for a new passport! It took a while; it wasn\u2019t that easy. I reflected at the time, \u201CThis is going to take me a long time. I know I can save and I can dip back in, I can save and I can dip back in.\u201D That level of digital literacy isn\u2019t consistent across New Zealand. So what does everybody else do? And what does a Government agency do to meet that need. I would argue: not enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI was astounded to hear today in question time, at question No. 5, the Hon David Parker, in the context of a question around how eligible New Zealanders can ensure they receive the first cost of living payment on 1 August\u2014that was the question to the Minister. The Minister answered, and it\u2019ll be in the Hansard, that he recommended people log on to myIR to check whether the Government\u2019s cost of living payment was in their bank account. Well, that is exactly\u2014exactly\u2014the problem that many New Zealanders are having, and if those New Zealanders are some of those who are eligible for the Government\u2019s cost of living payment\u2014which is a one-off payment; very good\u2014but they\u2019re not able to access myIR by themselves, where do they go? It is consistent across other Government departments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo the challenge for the Government, and the challenge for the next National Government, which is a challenge that we are very happy to take up, and I know my colleague Melissa Lee will speak more on this point, is that it is imperative that the Government meet the need\u2014not their need. It\u2019s very nice having myIR; it\u2019s all very well, but meet the need that exists in our community. And I do not see that happening. The reason I don\u2019t see it happening is that I have an endless of stream of folk coming into my electorate office and who I meet with throughout my electorate who are struggling to access Government services online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo what do people do? Who meets this unmet need? Well, of course, it\u2019s Citizens Advice Bureau\u2014of course it is\u2014and Citizens Advice Bureau fully acknowledge that that is their role, and thank goodness for that. The question that the Citizens Advice Bureau are asking us to say is \u201CYou\u2019ve just shifted the problem. You\u2019ve gone online, you\u2019ve created a need, and you\u2019re not meeting that need.\u201D So, by having Citizens Advice, they just pick up the pieces\u2014and so, by the way, do MPs\u2019 offices. And, yes, that is part of our role, and we are very glad to meet that need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI think that Citizens Advice Bureau have raised a very important matter that we in the House and the Government need to take note of. Simply what needs to happen is that the Government of the day needs to decide to meet the need of all New Zealanders, not just those who are digitally literate. How do they do that? Please don\u2019t form another working group. Just don\u2019t do that. What is needed are concrete steps into developing a way for the Government to once again step out and do what it should be doing, and that is to support the vulnerable, the visually impaired, the disabled, the minority groups who are struggling to access digital services. It\u2019s all very well intentioned, and we must keep going with moving on to a digital platform, but the Government needs to support the people in New Zealand. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00223a3d44ee420a4de4a3e5cd78b3e29c11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a3d44ee420a4de4a3e5cd78b3e29c11\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00227901a1bafe9e4832ad5621490f7c5a8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227901a1bafe9e4832ad5621490f7c5a8d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Kia ora koutou. I would like to acknowledge the Citizens Advice Bureau\u2019s (CAB\u2019s) longstanding advocacy for New Zealanders who are digitally excluded and, can I add from the outset, socially excluded. Last year, I had the privilege of receiving a petition from the CAB on the steps of Parliament, and I have really appreciated the ongoing constructive engagement with the Citizens Advice Bureau from that time and even until now. I acknowledge those who are in the gallery. Our most recent meeting was in fact yesterday, and I do want to thank CEO Kerry Dalton, Deputy CE Andrew Hubbard, and National Adviser Strategic and Legal Sacha Green for their time when we met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ECommunity organisations like CAB play a critical role in providing a voice for the people they represent, enabling their thousands of volunteers to strengthen and enrich New Zealand communities. Their volunteers hear the stories of those who feel excluded from society because they feel they cannot easily access the services they need to fully participate. Yesterday in our meeting, we agreed, I think, that if CAB had their time again, they may have lodged a petition on social inclusion more explicitly to reflect the broader concern, including from those who simply don\u2019t want to engage online. A lot of the debate around this has focused on digital exclusion with the implicit intention that those who are excluded necessarily want to be digitally included, whereas some simply do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI just say that for context, because I think it is important. The burden of my contribution will focus on the digital aspects of inclusion, which is, I guess, a direct response to the petition as it stands, but I think that context is incredibly important, and COVID has shown us that digital exclusion affects a variety of people. It\u2019s kind of underlined that or underscored that, and we\u2019ve seen how profound the impacts of that exclusion can be. It\u2019s important to me and to the Government that all New Zealanders have the tools, skills, and confidence to participate in our society, a society that\u2019s increasingly digital, should they wish to be involved in that digital aspect, and that digital infrastructure, content, and services that are provided meet diverse needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government does have a vision for digital transformation of Aotearoa, and that includes expanding digital inclusion to address gaps that have been emphasised through recent events like the COVID-19 lockdowns. However, as I\u2019ve already noted, I also recognise the need to maintain choice in the way people interact with public services, particularly in offering non-digital options. Can I stress upfront: this is not about beating up the Public Service. Our Public Service is known internationally for their integrity, for their effectiveness. Research shows that New Zealanders generally have a higher trust in their public servants than we see in overseas jurisdictions, and high satisfaction as a consequence. Despite this, we know that we need to raise the bar, and we will unapologetically look to raise the bar for delivery of public services and acknowledge that there\u2019s a reform journey to have there to make sure that our Public Service remains able to deliver for New Zealanders and maintain their trust in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Public Service Act 2020 has been an important step on this journey, basing in law our vision for a unified Public Service that is more adaptive, agile, and collaborative, that can more effectively meet the needs of New Zealanders. A spirit of service is now fundamental to the Public Service and public servants. We reflected actually yesterday in our meeting on the fact that there were digital Public Service targets under the previous Government which focused public servants very, very firmly on getting the number of people engaged online, and that, actually, what we as a Government here are keen to stress is that we want all people to be included. Yes, we want things to be convenient, available for those who want to be online. We want it to be inclusive for those who want to be online, but we also want to make sure everybody is included, not just narrowly focused on achieving one target but actually focused on that broader spirit of public service, making sure that services are available for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EGovernment and Government agencies on the inclusion side are working towards that focus for digital inclusion of including all people, of making our services available for those who want them online, and the strategy for a digital Public Service and the digital strategy for Aotearoa guide the Government\u2019s future work to support that goal. The strategy for a digital Public Service sets the direction to develop a modern, user-centred digital Public Service and to ensure that New Zealanders\u2019 experiences with Government are inclusive and accessible, responsive to their needs, and meet their expectations. We will soon release the digital strategy for Aotearoa that will extend that vision for digital transformation beyond the public sector. It will be New Zealand\u2019s first digital strategy, and those who have engaged with the consultation documents\u2014and again I want to acknowledge industry, iwi, community organisations, those who engaged online, those who did not, and particularly want to acknowledge the CAB\u2019s contribution to the development of that strategy, and the submissions that were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat strategy will still be based on the pillars that were publicly consulted on: Mahi Tika, Mahi Tahi, and Mahi Ake. You know, personally, I think that Mahi Tika, the trust pillar, is so critically important if we want people to be able to engage online should they want to. They need to feel it\u2019s trustworthy and safe to do so. And Mahi Tahi, the inclusion piece, is, of course, focused quite neatly and clearly as one of our three key priorities in that strategy so that we have an inclusive development of that digital space. And then growth speaks for itself. I won\u2019t dwell too much on that in this particular contribution. In the development of that strategy, we held lots of hui. We had the input from M\u0101ori leaders, innovators, Pasifika youth, disability community, and the consultation process showed very strong support for a digital strategy for Aotearoa, with many commending the work done so far and commending the improved focus on digital inclusion and suggestions as to how to improve that into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe strategy, when it will be announced, will cover many things, but there are already some things that will be broadly covered in that strategy that are already under way\u2014things like an initiative on internet connectivity both nationally and rurally. Successive Governments have invested around $2.4 billion in the national internet infrastructure network, delivering fibre to around 1.8 million homes, connecting 563 marae. Rural connectivity has also improved for over 370,000 households, and I know Kieran McAnulty was very keen\u2014just looking to see whether I can catch his eye\u2014that I mention rural connectivity and the big strides that we\u2019ve taken in that respect, because many isolated communities of course are rural, and the improvement that we have made there is, I think, something that we should all be proud of, which isn\u2019t to say there isn\u2019t more work to be done. By the end of 2023, 99.8 percent of New Zealanders will have access to improved broadband through Government investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s also in the process of designing a new scheme to help provide coverage for up to 5,200 remote households who have no broadband coverage at all at this stage. Another initiative is student learning. The Ministry of Education is currently supporting 60,000 learners and their households by improving devices and an internet connection into the home. Then there\u2019s the essential digital skills uplift, supporting 20,000 individuals and wh\u0101nau through the Manaiakalani programme, which goes into decile 1 schools, and we\u2019ve got the Toloa strategy, aiming to shift Pacific people into opportunities for employment in science, technology, engineering, the arts, and mathematics, and the Better Later Life strategy to look at the opportunities for seniors. There is a firm plan that will be rolled out and be seen when the digital strategy is released to improve inclusion for all communities. Of course, I can mention welfare support. I\u2019m mindful of time, but I want to say again that non-government organisations are also delivering in this area. The Digital Equity Coalition Aotearoa supports community collaboration. The Recycle a Device scheme teaches students to refurbish devices, and, of course, the Citizens Advice Bureau themselves provide vital community services. There are private sector contributions too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere is a lot of work still under way. I want to acknowledge the work that the public sector is doing, but I also want to agree that there is plenty more work to be done, and I think it\u2019s important that we continue to explore how to further strengthen our overall response to be more strategic, coordinated, and impactful. The Government will continue to work with trusted community partners like the Citizens Advice Bureau to support successful delivery of services and initiatives, and we welcome this debate here today to draw attention to the importance of social inclusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2ffad1d043a4637bb09ad335d921a32\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c321e3d55774dfe9ab58dd6eafef4fe\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225a611451fc604b7cb7fa857d638d35a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a611451fc604b7cb7fa857d638d35a6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to correct an answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408c02847c234bde9d28aa1eadaeaad5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is requested for that purpose. Any objection? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee54576238b64ad2971e72879e22337f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. In answer to a supplementary on question No. 4, I made reference to a former Governor of the Reserve Bank reaching an arrangement in respect of a party list. In a slip of the tongue I said the Labour Party being the party. That was incorrect. It was the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f6d69e81a064309b3de5fb773be521d\u0022\u003ESpecial Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c02e24dc363046b6bc0801754d6126c7\u0022\u003EPetitions Committee, Report\u2014Petition of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand: Leave no-one behind \u2013 Campaign to address digital exclusion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000227\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002235842a1275614329867a8282aa93cd88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235842a1275614329867a8282aa93cd88\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to rise and speak, as briefly as it is, on behalf of the Green Party in this special debate. I too want to thank the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) for prompting this debate with a petition, but, before that, the research and analysis that led to the petition, which showed three months of client engagements that had 4,379 interactions involving digital exclusion\u2014giving us quantitative data, I think, for the first time around the breadth of this problem in our communities and the work that\u2019s been picked up by our community organisations because of that. Such an important conversation for our Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EToday I\u2019m going to focus not on the digital aspect but the public service aspect, the social inclusion aspect, because I think that is crucially important. I want to note that while I really thank CAB for bringing this, they\u2019re not the first organisation to have been raising concerns about disconnection from Government and people. I speak most recently having participated in an amazing meeting in Porirua led by Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira chief executive Helmut Modlik, bringing 100 community leaders together to discuss how as a community we might help shape our services to meet the needs of people. He was saying in that meeting about how he\u2019d been at a workshop in the Ministry of Health in 2020 to figure out how to boost vaccination rates, and when they were thinking about that, they were thinking, \u201CWell, what Government initiative in the past has reached everybody in the population?\u201D and could not come up with one single initiative that had reached everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe have a one-size-fits-all approach, and the digital approach across Government has been another example of that. It systematically fails significant groups of people. The CAB research has shown us that it\u2019s failing people who lack access to computers and internet, or who don\u2019t have digital literacy. They\u2019re possibly the obvious groups we\u2019d think might struggle in a digital approach, as well as those with low incomes, who can\u2019t afford fancy computers that go fast or can\u2019t afford the internet access; but also people with literacy challenges, and people where English is not their first language, and people with disabilities that make reading or processing the information and being able to communicate their own needs in a written way difficult, and those who have no desire to be online\u2014and viva those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAs an introvert, I am super keen on the online approach, as deeply frustrating as I find it, but I want to acknowledge too that there\u2019s been nothing in the communications from CAB or anybody else that\u2019s saying we want to get rid of that. It\u2019s just saying it needs to improve, to be more accessible, but also we have to have options that work, that are tailored for our diversity as people. The starting point for Public Service\u2014recognising that the Government has legal obligations in its provision of public services to ensure that it does not exclude people\u2014is to find out, actually, how do people engage? How do people want to engage? And how can the Government meet them where they are at rather than the starting point of what is easy for the organisation, the bureaucracy. Too often that has been our starting point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to, too, just clearly put on record that this is not having a go at our public servants. I note that the Public Service Association has a charter that clearly says they want public services to be easy to use, to be there when people need them, and for communities to have a say in the shape of those services. People have been calling for this. M\u0101ori have been calling for this. This piece of research and this petition gives us some quantitative data to really challenge us. I\u2019m so grateful for this Parliament to have the opportunity today to be able to have this discussion, because it\u2019s absolutely core to whether anything we discuss in this House has any chance of success, because if it\u2019s not for our people, what is it for? So thank you, CAB.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc7483c0cdf546f7956dd1fe44b3082c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc7483c0cdf546f7956dd1fe44b3082c\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) have been operating for 52 years, they have 80 branches around the motu, and they see around 482,000 clients every single year. They\u2019re asking for our help. They started asking for our help three years ago, but they\u2019re not being heard. So they started a petition and they\u2019re calling for no one to be left behind in the digital spectrum that we\u2019re moving into. And they\u2019ve received nearly 8,000 signatures, possibly more since I last looked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut they\u2019re asking for three things. One is to exclude no one from accessing digital services\u2014actually, exclude no one from accessing services full stop, especially the Government services, because they are not digitally literate for some people. The second thing is to make sure that there\u2019s paper-based form filling available without cost or expense, either to the person trying to fill in the form or to the CAB themselves. And the third thing is to fund the CAB to meet demand for the help that they are experiencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhile many of us upskill and upgrade as technology changes, a good many of us are unable to, can\u2019t afford to, or simply just don\u2019t want to. That\u2019s their choice, and we should respect it, not shove it down their throats as the only possible available option to people. The CAB are pointing out that in many cases, especially with Government departments, digital is the only option that is offered to people in many cases. And by excluding people who do not access digital services, we end up excluding some of our most vulnerable in our society: the disabled, the elderly, and the poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EResearch shows that there is a range of barriers, including people who can\u2019t afford devices, those who only have a phone and not a computer. They don\u2019t know how to scan documents or even how to send them back. They don\u2019t have an email account, or perhaps they don\u2019t even have a credit card to make payments. They can\u2019t afford an internet plan. They can\u2019t afford a data top-up on their phones. The form is online, but they can\u2019t possibly fill it out or fill it out and save it somewhere before they can send it in an email, and they don\u2019t have anywhere to save it to, let alone have an email. And this is really concerning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe 2018 Census told us that 14 percent of Kiwis do not have access to the internet. And a 2022 survey found that 249,000 people do not use the internet. BNZ has produced a digital skills report in 2021 which told us 20 percent of Kiwis lack the digital skills deemed essential for modern life, citing income, education, and disabilities as main factors for who and why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOur Government departments are some of the worst perpetrators of this move to digital. I recently helped a person who could not download an IR4 for their end of year tax reporting\u2014they just couldn\u2019t find it. And that was after we figured out how to stop the pop-up blockers from working. And it\u2019s not just IRD. It\u2019s the Tenancy Tribunal, employment mediation, social housing, and even New Zealand Police\u2014they put their firearms licensing into a digital format and publicly told people that if they don\u2019t comply digitally they may have to wait longer for their licences to be processed. Maybe they\u2019re in the category of those already waiting two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EPeople are severely and actively being punished for not being computer literate. In a written parliamentary question replied to this month, we asked the Minister for Digital Economy and Communications whether the Public Service and non - Public Service agencies met the New Zealand Government Web Accessibility Standard 1.1; and, if not, why not? The answer from the Hon Dr David Clark was that performance of compliance with the standard implementation and monitoring is the responsibility of each service, whether public or not. So the Minister doesn\u2019t know if his own agencies are conforming or not. It looks like they\u2019re not, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe CAB have also told us that a lot of their inquiries are from immigrants trying to navigate our Government departments. English is not their first language. And I was dismayed to hear that in December 2018 New Zealand Immigration discontinued their funding for the dedicated multilingual services called Language Connect. That service was seeing 14,000 inquiries every year. Luckily for these immigrants, they have CAB to help, but where\u2019s the help for CAB? These decisions have hugely impacted their ability to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnd I have a lot more here to say, but I only have 15 more seconds. So I\u2019m just going to cut to the chase: if you\u2019re going to change the ways of a lifetime to have good policy on any change, we need to make sure we can take the people with us. Because when you don\u2019t, you exclude them. CAB are asking for our help. The Government needs to not exclude them too. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc5140009fab4410a1393bedb533ec43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc5140009fab4410a1393bedb533ec43\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the opportunity to take a call in this debate. Like previous speakers have done, I acknowledge the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB), many of whom are in the gallery today, and the work they have done over many, many years to support New Zealanders. From a local perspective, I regularly attend the annual general meetings of the Hamilton Citizens Advice Bureau in Victoria Street. In fact, there\u2019s one coming up in about two weeks. I fully appreciate the challenges that they face at times and the important work they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIn many ways, it is similar to the work members of Parliament do. When people, for whatever reason, can\u2019t engage, they come to a Citizens Advice Bureau or they come to members of Parliament or other services in order to unlock the services they need. Listening carefully to the debate, it dawns on me that it appears that what\u2019s at the heart of this debate is around having a human-centred approach. A human-centred approach can exist online. Traditionally, it exists face to face. It could exist on the phone, and it will be different for each person in terms of how they engage and how they\u2019re able to engage, but it is really important that regardless of what form the services take in New Zealand, there is always a human-centred approach, a personal touch, and that personal touch will help to support social inclusion, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI grew up in a small town called Pirongia, with less than a thousand people. I know it was less than a thousand people because our phone number was 650\u2014it only had three digits. That was in the early 1990s. It was a rural town. There was no internet back then\u2014my children can\u2019t believe it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7c1340cc59d4e3e9e34d07d11eee483\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re showing your age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b5636e178c4ab69d7d339d774ee711\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I am showing my age\u2014I am; there\u2019s a few grey hairs. It was a rural part of the New Zealand and it was a different world to the world we\u2019re in now. However, we did have access to services. We could pick up the phone or travel to a neighbouring town\u2014in that case, Te Awamutu or Hamilton, in order to get those services. As society has evolved and technology has evolved, many of these services have now gone online, on to the internet. I\u2019ve just had an example today where I phoned a business\u2014I won\u2019t say what business\u2014needing some service, and went through the numbers. I pressed No. 1, I pressed No. 4, No 6, No 8, and finally I got to a point where they basically said, \u201CGo to an online chat and ask your question on the online chat.\u201D I didn\u2019t know how to do that so I didn\u2019t, and I still haven\u2019t done it. I guess the point I\u2019m trying to raise is that there are significant logistical benefits to online services. We see businesses use them, we are seeing Government agencies use them, and it\u2019s important for us to continue to consider, as we develop these benefits, that they are accessible and that there is that human touch. Like I said right at the start, that human touch can take different forms, and I acknowledge that as a society we do continue to evolve and we do continue to bring in new technologies, but it\u2019s important that we continue to have that human touch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EJust in terms of the internet aspect and some of the comments that the Minister mentioned in terms of access to the internet, it is certainly improving, and I acknowledge the previous Government for the work they did as well. It has really been cross-party in terms of the rolling out of the broadband. Certainly as a Government we continue to do that in terms of reaching a large portion of New Zealand. There are two challenges with the internet in terms of what I read in the submissions. There are those who can\u2019t access the internet and there are those who don\u2019t wish to access the internet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EFirstly, in terms of those who can\u2019t, it was quite clearly outlined by the Minister\u2014and other speakers may also mention it\u2014that the Government is making good progress in terms of that accessibility. It is very difficult in the extremely remote parts in terms of the challenge of the cost\u2014there is that fiscal aspect to it. But with Elon Musk and others in terms of Starlink, there are options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI see I\u2019m rapidly running out of time, but in terms of those who don\u2019t wish to use the internet, it\u2019s important that public services continue to actively work in terms of supporting those who don\u2019t wish to go online. The Minister outlined some of those programmes that are happening, and it is important that we continue to work hard on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5d983f7675642e1828e48470249c591\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5d983f7675642e1828e48470249c591\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a great pleasure to rise to participate in this debate this afternoon. I\u2019d like to, first of all, acknowledge the gallery upstairs, with all of the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) people. It is their petition, which, basically, calls for the Leave no-one behind campaign to address digital exclusion. Earlier when the Minister actually got up and said that this should actually be talking about social inclusion\u2014well, I actually disagree. Digital exclusion is right. The reason why they are digitally excluded sometimes when they refuse to participate is because they actually protest against the Government\u2019s move to being completely digital, with no front-facing services available for some of these people who have disabilities, who are aged, or who are unable to afford technology. I think it is right\u2014they are digitally excluded, and, as a result of being digitally excluded, they are also socially excluded as well. I applaud your petition, which I was privileged to participate in, and we now have a special debate because I called for one\u2014I\u2019ll take credit for that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAll of the members who have actually brought similar petitions from their own communities are, in fact, having difficulties. With New Zealand, and, actually, the world, increasingly shifting to the digital world, where services and deliveries are done online, many people, particularly people, as I mentioned, who might have disabilities, who have language difficulties, who may not be able to afford technology, who have learning difficulties, or who may be illiterate cannot participate in the everyday function of democracy\u2014where they desire or they need to have information from the Government, they\u2019re not able to do that, and if the means to contact and fill in forms, for example, is only available online, they\u2019re not able to. They will have to print it off at home, and if they don\u2019t have a printer, how are they supposed to actually submit their forms? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIf they don\u2019t have the finances to afford a printer to print something from the online form, then they have to rely on services like the Citizens Advice Bureau, and is anyone supporting the cost\u2014the extra cost\u2014that is incurred by social services like CAB and, actually, often MPs\u2019 offices as well, because often we have constituents who come who need some of those services as well. I know that many of our social services do, in fact, incur these extra costs, which are not funded for, and I think that\u2019s something that the Minister should potentially consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe loss of easy access to non \u2013 digitally-based services, particularly in small towns in rural New Zealand, has really amplified the digital exclusion situation for our rural communities where front-facing offices have closed. Like many MPs, we do regional visits, and I was on the West Coast with my colleague Maureen Pugh\u2014it was Westport. If someone, for example, gets a new EFTPOS card from their bank in the mail\u2014snail mail\u2014they open it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f643373e914b58bfa4439397f60b72\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: Snail mail? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba30f963fb647fc88d3df2bca9a22f3\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014but they have to activate it at the bank, and in places like Westport, every single bank is closed. How are they supposed to activate it? It is really, really difficult for those people to activate those bankcards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESimilarly, when Government departments only have 0800 numbers\u2014I know it is actually free; 0800 numbers are free\u2014when you have to wait two hours for someone to answer the phone, how is it possible that we can declare to New Zealanders that we are providing the service? National was the only party that included in our technology policy\u2014we actually had a technology policy in the election. We wanted to zero-rate data for all of the Government departments so that when people wanted to connect to Government, it was cost-free for them because the data cost was not going to be paid for by people who contacted the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I feel very, very strongly is that the Government must explore better relationships with satellite broadband services, particularly for rural communities, where rural connectivity is so bad and the only option is for them to have satellite. It should give Crown Infrastructure Partners more ways to look at delivering fibre, recommend that local government is required to advise Crown Infrastructure Partners on new large-scale developments; and look at digital\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229611b700460c433bb83dd51a0f3805a8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time is up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a739a1d1916d49b99229b3d245b5efc7\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014exclusion of people in our rural communities and in the cities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002244ed1b3249ba4f35bf6e875f914d5312\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244ed1b3249ba4f35bf6e875f914d5312\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve lost a minute, Naisi! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce1c886928de4003ae583e5890d9dc60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce1c886928de4003ae583e5890d9dc60\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The year 1983 was the year that the internet was invented; I think this House has banned me from referring to how many years that was before I was born\u201411, for the record. However, this year, 2022, we\u2019re here in the New Zealand Parliament debating this petition\u2014a very important petition brought to us by the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) of \u201CLeave no-one behind\u201D. We need to talk about this issue of digital exclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI know for a fact that the internet has become a default gateway interaction from our people, the people of New Zealand, with our Government agencies. However, not everyone is accommodated by this means of communication, and often most people, including my own\u2014despite being a millennial, being brought up in the day and age of the internet, I often still have frustrations; I\u2019m stressed out and I\u2019ve obviously been excluded from some services on the internet as well. So can I please start by acknowledging the CAB. This is a very important purpose that you have come to Parliament with, and I think this is really important that you\u2019re seeing cross-party support for this kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, we have a very, very diverse community, and the fact that digital exclusion happens in our society, in our community, I think often is a result of different intersectionality as well. We know for a fact, for instance, that M\u0101ori and Pacific people are disproportionately disadvantaged. We know, for instance, that people with disabilities do not access services as easily online as well, and also just the fact that being young doesn\u2019t make you excluded from digital exclusion\u2014sorry for the double negative right there!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EBut also, we know that as our day and age progresses, technology also actually offers us many, many good advantages as well. There\u2019s lots and lots of efficiencies that we can achieve. But I think, at the end of the day, my big word today for this speech is equity\u2014making sure that there is equal opportunity for everyone to access the services that they deserve and they expect from their Government, but also from other social services and other charity services as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ECan I just really highlight something that\u2019s really close to my heart, and I thank all of the speakers before me who have mentioned this as well. It is actually something that was mentioned in the CAB\u2019s report and this graph I\u2019m holding was actually featured in the CAB\u2019s report: areas of inquiry from digitally excluded clients. The top one was citizenship and immigration. I know that when new migrants come to this country, they\u2019re often facing not only digital exclusion but, compounded with that, also barriers in terms of their language and culture and understanding how New Zealand as a democratic Government works, and lots of that actually adds to the stress of applying for citizenship, on top of\u2014as I\u2019ve heard many times in my office\u2014financial hardship as well. More often than not, this leads to inequitable outcomes in their journey to becoming citizens in New Zealand and their access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo this is something really, really important, and can I just add, for the record, the second one is rental housing\u2014often, also, our most deprived parts of our community\u2014and income support, legal services, and relationships, and the list goes on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ECan I also just acknowledge the Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications, the Hon Dr David Clark, in terms of his strategy for our country in terms of making sure that everyone is included in terms of all of the investment that we\u2019ve put into seniors. We\u2019ve put in $600,000 over three years to provide free digital literacy training for seniors nationwide. It\u2019s those steps that we\u2019ll take to make sure that we are not leaving anyone behind. But can I please, as a call-out to all of Government agencies as well, remind people that this Government\u2019s strategy for a digital Public Service recognises that some people can\u2019t or don\u2019t want to engage online or use digital services. Digital transformation is about how we meet everyone\u2019s needs through better design and collaboration, whether online, face to face, or through others, or by the phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EMy final plea is to the community of New Zealand, and I want to just start by a quick recognition of the Pakuranga CAB, and my next-door neighbour Pam, who\u2019s been a long-term volunteer there at that CAB. I know for a fact that we need to help each other in this digital day and age; often, I know, I get called into my own family to help out with my grandparents\u2019 digital needs. So can you please, those who have cell phones, those who have computers and access, reach out to those in need as well. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022adb6b652c61f4c37a737a0637ec8f66a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adb6b652c61f4c37a737a0637ec8f66a\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like many others in the Chamber this afternoon, I, too, would like to acknowledge the members of the Citizens Advice Bureau and all the hard work you have done, and I\u2019d like to offer a huge congratulations, actually. I\u2019m not sure if you\u2019re quite aware of your achievement in getting the Minister responsible here to listen to these concerns today, because trust me when I tell you, as the MP for Selwyn, that I have written dozens and dozens and dozens of times drawing his attention to the issues of connectivity and, therefore, digital exclusion in this part of Canterbury specifically. Well done to you all for taking this initiative, because when we talk about digital exclusion across New Zealand, yes, of course we do talk about web-based services and online services, particularly Government services, but I\u2019d like to concentrate my comments this afternoon on the infrastructure that is absolutely essential to provide these services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI think the theme of leaving no one behind is very, very pertinent here. I represent a region of about 72,000 people, and increasingly, due to the massive growth in our region, more and more and more people are being left behind and it\u2019s really starting to hurt, it is really starting to bite. No matter how many times I have written to the Minister responsible, or indeed the CEOs of the various telcos involved, we\u2019ve had very, very little response and very little uptake. So the plea from this side of the House is to see some massive investment into that infrastructure and architecture in this country that will provide these services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe Minister is shaking his head at me but I can absolutely confirm there has been no investment in the region of Selwyn. Every week I hear from locals who are not able to make phone calls, receive texts in their homes, get online, run their businesses, have their kids learning online or anything else, and that\u2019s irrespective of whether they live in the Canterbury high country, in the Malvern foothills, or in the middle of Rolleston or Lincoln, which are big, fast-growing urban towns. I think the example that really strikes at my heart is the Lincoln Volunteer Fire Brigade, which operates in one of Selwyn\u2019s largest towns. It has such bad coverage that every time the emergency siren goes off, there has to be a phone tree\u2014a ring around of landlines to make sure that all the guys and girls get the call and turn up at the station to attend the emergency event. I think that is a very raw, a very real example of where digital inclusion for all is fundamental to our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIf I look further across my electorate and up the R\u0101kaia Gorge, there\u2019s an extraordinary scenarios going on there where, on the north side of the river, the locals have banded together to work with the Rural Connectivity Group to put up a cell tower and they have coverage. On the other side of the river, in the line of sight of that tower, there are about 10 families who are still operating on old analogue radios. Now, I put it to the Rural Connectivity Group from Vodafone recently that one day there will be a fatality up that valley and that is because there is a vast amount of trampers, fishers, farmers, tourists\u2014all sorts of vehicles going up and down those roads. There are scrub fires, there are avalanches, there are floods, and there are rock falls. There have already been two scenarios where a gentleman has had to be medevaced out of there because they had a radio telephone system because he got in farm accidents. It is not good enough in this day and age that there are rural isolated communities who are excluded from digital services that are essential to running this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe consistent message from locals across the region, whether they are in town or whether they are in the countryside, is that they need to be included, they need to have equity in services irrespective of where their address is, and they need to be able to contribute, engage, and function in society on an equal footing. So, again, I just thank and I acknowledge the Citizens Advice Bureau for their work, for drawing attention to this. I congratulate you for getting the Government to listen, and we on this side of the House do what we can to continue to endorse your work and push the Government for results in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022285b044f86de404bb1b94672037ef77f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022285b044f86de404bb1b94672037ef77f\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Good afternoon, Mr Speaker, and may I say a huge thankyou for your work. Thank you, Citizens Advice Bureau, for doing the work that needs to be done in making sure that the voice of the people, the issues on the ground, get to Parliament and also get to your Government representatives. As the member for the Tukituki electorate in Hastings, I too hear from people in my community who feel excluded or unable to connect into the internet in various ways, to be able to engage in many, many activities. I can think even of a couple myself where even my young daughter, when I think about the banks\u2014and I think when we talk about public service, we also have to talk about business and banks that also play a role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, to get a bank account opened, you have to go to a bank and you have to go in and you have to meet with someone in the bank. But then after that, the banks don\u2019t want to see you. The banks want you to do everything online and digitally. We\u2019ve seen in our community banks who have been closing branches and then trying to get people to go online to do their banking. Yes, they can telebank, but everything is moving towards the digital era. I live just three kilometres from Hastings\u2014actually, Waipatu settlement. In Waipatu settlement, we don\u2019t have broadband and we are literally three kilometres from Hastings. I am hoping that through the Government\u2019s investment into marae and enabling marae, we will actually be able to connect into the broadband services. So it\u2019s touching many, many of us in many different ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI just wanted to refer to a couple of points, because there has been, while we all support this and everybody\u2019s working together, some negativity projected from the National Party. Public Service driven by National towards a digital-only environment called \u201CA Better Public Service\u201D had the outdated siloes of the State Sector Act from the 1980s\u2014Labour has changed that. Labour has changed the framework and accountability through doing away with the Better Public Services targets and refocusing the public sector through the spirit of good public service. Yes, there is a lot to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI also wanted to just pick up on the member for Selwyn saying she hadn\u2019t seen any digital enablement and investment, yet the Enable network was funded through the Crown infrastructure investments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220679849da5204db3b2c0e67b8a936300\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: In Christchurch city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c19c61e35140b985c1f18fa1e1a956\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that was part of delivering of ultra-fast\u2014do your research. Do your research. When you can actually work on this side, in Government, one of the beauties that we have, one of the things is we don\u2019t need to write letters; we can talk to our Ministers. The conversations that I\u2019ve had with the Minister have been about \u201CWe want to do more. We are working with you.\u201D We have an open door. It is because of that engagement that your voice can be heard louder and more. But I have one thing to put out there to you: keep going. Don\u2019t just finish with this petition; hold us to account. Hold us to account and make sure we keep doing the mahi, because we are your representatives. We are the people that you need to keep going to. Pick up the phone to your local MP. Continue to do that. I know the Minister will absolutely keep engaging, and we will do the work and investment that we can to make sure that digital exclusion isn\u2019t something that we want to continue and we enable you all to engage in a society without the problems of equity that Naisi Chen mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cebe603cb6244aff84abda51113c9ae7\u0022\u003EElectoral Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002299f6b46743154d7dbdb1b8ede2f307aa\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022e73cd89c5e744736a8ca03b7aedc45eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e73cd89c5e744736a8ca03b7aedc45eb\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Electoral Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d280f480f4f41aabd50bab891db4dfc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0fd785c4b74d6da55644e7274b9b12\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Electoral Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 5 December 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill makes a number of changes to the Electoral Act 1993. These changes will increase public trust in the transparency of the political donations and loans framework and extend the eligibility of overseas voters to enrol to vote in the 2023 general election. This bill makes various changes to the political donations and loans framework, and also increases public disclosure about party funding. These amendments improve the transparency of party funding by providing the public with more information about the sources of political donations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe increased reporting requirements support the clear results from public and targeted consultation. New Zealanders want greater transparency about how our political parties and candidates are funded. Seventy percent of respondents to a recent Victoria University of Wellington survey indicated they did not trust the political funding framework. This bill will increase transparency and, therefore, trust in our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill lowers the threshold for disclosing the identity of party donors from $15,000 to $5,000. The new $5,000 threshold provides a careful balance, increasing the amount of information publicly available about party donations whilst not providing an overload of information and respecting donor privacy for smaller donation sums. The bill amends the rule currently requiring disclosure of a donor\u2019s identity within 10 working days when their donations to a party exceed $30,000 in the previous 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, a party secretary may now disclose a donor\u2019s identity within 10 working days when their donations to a party exceed $20,000, but only during an election year. This change increases the information disclosed during election years, when it is likely to be most important to voters, and, of course, the public. It also reduces administrative complexity, particularly for smaller parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill requires party secretaries to annually disclose the number and total value of non-anonymous donations under $1,500 that they receive. This means parties\u2019 annual donation returns will, for the first time, provide the full picture of donations received. The bill also requires parties to annually disclose the proportion of their total donations that are in-kind non-monetary donations. This will provide greater transparency around the funds parties receive from fundraising dinners and auctions, for example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill also requires candidates to disclose loans received to support their campaign, but this only applies to loans from unregistered lenders. This is because candidates must be able to keep their personal debts private, such as, of course, mortgages and credit card balances. This approach also acknowledges that unregistered lenders are more likely to be in a position to influence candidates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ECoupled with the changes to political donations and loan settings, the bill also requires all registered parties to disclose their annual financial statements. This will provide greater transparency about all income sources for parties, as well as their key expenditure categories and their capital asset base. This has the support of over 85 percent of respondents to the same Victoria University survey from last year. There should be minimal compliance costs associated with this requirement, since almost every registered party already prepares financial statements in some form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAnother important change sees the bill temporarily extend overseas voter eligibility for the 2023 general election in light of COVID-19 - related travel restrictions. Citizens and permanent residents will now retain their ability to enrol to vote if they haven\u2019t returned to New Zealand for up to six and four years respectively. Currently, the maximum periods are three years without returning to New Zealand for citizens and 12 months for permanent residents. Overseas voters will still face considerable financial, travel, health, and logistical barriers to returning home. Extending their eligibility to vote upholds the democratic rights of thousands of New Zealand citizens and permanent residents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIn addition to various minor and technical changes, the bill also addresses the scenario where there is a change in polling day once the regulated period has started. This occurred in the lead-up to the 2020 general election. The bill provides that the new regulated period is the shorter of two possible periods, either the period from the day after the announcement of the change of polling day until the new polling day, or three months before the new polling day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAlongside amendments improving the M\u0101ori electoral option introduced to the House last month, this bill forms part of a broader reform programme to update New Zealand\u2019s electoral legislation. In October last year, the former Minister of Justice, Hon Kris Faafoi, announced an independent review of electoral law to ensure the rules remain fit for purpose and meet the needs of the next generation of voters. We have established a bipartisan independent panel of experts to undertake this review. As part of this work, the panel will consider our electoral finance framework more broadly, along with whether there should be permanent changes to overseas voting eligibility. I\u2019m looking forward to the active engagement of all members across the House with the independent review panel on these and other matters of importance to our democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI nominate the Justice Committee to consider the Electoral Amendment Bill. I propose that the committee report the bill back to the House by 5 December 2022 and complete the remaining stages by 15 December 2022. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2cff33ef5b0481fa6773a1fcac67535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2cff33ef5b0481fa6773a1fcac67535\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002277e5d77e38724c1ebd0bc77387060962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277e5d77e38724c1ebd0bc77387060962\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We won\u2019t be agreeing to the proposal and we won\u2019t be agreeing to this piece of legislation, the Electoral Amendment Bill. This is a piece of legislation that sets out to change the rules around the elections in regard to funding of political parties. Generally, in a good state of affairs, you would expect that there would be some measure of agreement across the House around the rules of the game, and that the Government of the day would seek to enjoy some sort of consensus over these issues. But that certainly is not the approach of this Government or of that Minister, Kiritapu Allan, who has decided instead to ram through some changes in the face of clear opposition from the National Party and from this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI just want to read a quote that, funnily enough, came up in Question No. 10 today, a quote from the Prime Minister, where she said, \u201CIt will not be the policy of any Government I lead\u201D\u2014she said very gravely at the local government conference\u2014\u201CIt won\u2019t be the policy of any Government I lead to embark on another substantial reform of local government or governance unless it is sought and unless there is a broad consensus amongst local government about the need for and the direction of change.\u201D Well, that approach certainly is not being applied by this Government when it comes to electoral reform. They have made no attempt to bring any consensus to the table, and they certainly haven\u2019t consulted the public on any of these things. It seems the only justification that the Minister came up with is the results of some survey done by a university, and I\u2019m not disparaging that, but it is hardly rock solid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s going on here is that the Government has decided that there are concerns around the funding of parties and money involved in politics. We agree. There are concerns in the public\u2014no question about that. We absolutely agree that the New Zealand electoral system needs to have clear rules that are rigorously enforced to ensure that the public has interest in the way that parties are funded and that elections are carried out. It\u2019s quite appropriate that that is reconsidered from time to time, and we\u2019ve seen some prominent cases, and they have raised concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe difficulty is, of course, that this bill is not dealing with those issues. The primary issue that is being raised in many of the cases, which was raised in the regulatory impact statement of this bill, is concern about people splitting donations, keeping it just below the threshold, and doing multiple donations\u2014that\u2019s the allegation. This bill does nothing around that. It doesn\u2019t deal with that. It doesn\u2019t deal with those issues at all. The Minister is sort of pointing to a problem and then introducing a bill that deals with other matters as if it\u2019s some kind of solution to the problem, which it isn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo in the meantime the Government has set up an external working group, which is incorrectly\u2014and the Minister again said it was a bipartisan external review. It\u2019s not bipartisan. The National Party didn\u2019t agree with the members on the independent panel. Some of them have actually made some very strong statements showing a clear prior view of the issues that they\u2019re dealing with. There\u2019s nothing bipartisan about it. But they\u2019ve put it up and it\u2019s going to be considering broad electoral review after the Government. That\u2019s the appropriate way to do it in order to reassure New Zealanders around these issues. We\u2019ve got no problem with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut in the meantime, while that is still being considered, they are trying to ram through this legislation prior to the 2023 election. What is the purpose of it? The broad purpose of it is to make it more difficult for political parties to raise funds\u2014that is the purpose\u2014by doing two things: one, by lowering the threshold by which donations are disclosed from $15,000, where it has been since 2008. So if you had adjusted it for inflation back then, it would be closer to $20,000, but it\u2019s $15,000. They\u2019re going to reduce that to $5,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, secondly, they\u2019re going to significantly increase the administration required for what are, effectively, volunteer organisations. So there\u2019ll be a lot more information required to be collected\u2014and just think for a moment. There are thousands and thousands of small donations made to political parties, and a lot more of them have to be individually itemised and reports drawn up and a whole lot of work done by voluntary organisations. That makes life actually more difficult for what are voluntary organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBy making it more difficult for political parties to raise funds, what is the logical outcome of all that? Because parties need funds to campaign. Democracy needs parties to be funded to campaign, to have a contest of ideas, to hold the Government of the day to account, and to offer the opportunity of change, or for Governments to make their case. It costs money. So if it\u2019s more and more difficult for parties to raise those funds voluntarily from people in the public, the obvious alternative is public taxpayer funding of political parties, and that\u2019s where this Government is trying to take us. It\u2019s where the Green Party certainly wants to take us. And we don\u2019t agree with it. We fundamentally don\u2019t agree with it. We don\u2019t think it is better for taxpayers to be funding parties for political purposes. Now, that\u2019s what the Government is trying to take us towards, and we fundamentally don\u2019t agree with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no perfect system for funding political parties anywhere around the world. Certainly, if you shifted it from fund-raising in the private sector to taxpayers funding it, well, there are real consequences for that, of course, and the most obvious one is that it\u2019s very difficult to design a system which doesn\u2019t favour incumbent parties, parties that are already there, against new parties that want to form. It\u2019s very difficult to arrange a system that doesn\u2019t make it tougher for them. Of course, taxpayers are getting sick of paying for all these sorts of things. They pay for more than enough as it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to actually making the case for change, there is no evidence anywhere in the regulatory impact statement that reducing the threshold of donations being declared from $15,000 to $5,000 is going to change anything. Is there any evidence that there is undue influence being bought on the New Zealand political scene by people donating between $5,000 and $15,000 anonymously? Why would people want to do that? Well, there\u2019s very good reasons why people might want to donate anonymously, as outlined in the regulatory impact statement. There are a lot of reasons given, particularly concern around people being targeted, concern about perceived risk to the safety of the family and employment and business interests, and some people are concerned that being associated with a particular party could adversely impact their ability to secure Government contracts. We know that this Government is very vindictive when it comes to people who are critical towards them, and people are quite naturally worried about being disclosed as donating to another party in small limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut you\u2019ve got to remember, of course, that a donation of around $15,000 would represent less than one half of a percent of the total funds available to be spent or allowed to be spent by a party during an election. So if anybody is seriously saying that somebody donating less than half of one percent of the overall amount that a party could spend is going to influence the policy direction of that party, I think it\u2019s a very hard argument to justify, and there\u2019s no evidence of it that\u2019s been put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat there is concern about is if somebody was able to do multiple donations under that threshold and get away with doing that and then having a very significant donation to a political party and then having an influence\u2014that is a concern. If this bill was setting out to fix that by dealing with those issues more effectively\u2014if indeed there is a problem with the law as it stands at the moment, but that\u2019s an open question and it\u2019s being considered by the courts at the moment, and we should probably wait to hear the logical outcome of that\u2014then we would be in support of that, but that\u2019s not what is being dealt with in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere are some elements, just finally, of the bill that we do broadly support, such as bringing loans into the system. We\u2019ve got no problem with that. We\u2019d agree with that. But we do not agree with the overall thrust of this bill, which is fundamentally about making it more difficult for parties to raise funds to campaign. I think the objective of this Government is clear, which is to push us towards taxpayer funding of political parties, and we don\u2019t agree with that. Ultimately, New Zealanders do want to see a robust political system with clear rules and clear accountability, but they don\u2019t necessarily want to be paying for political parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022431de005b9814a2f87c31fe5e2547355\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022431de005b9814a2f87c31fe5e2547355\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Electoral Amendment Bill makes a number of changes and the basis of that is to increase public trust and transparency in political donations and the donations framework, and, also, on top of that, to extend voter eligibility to those people who have been overseas, in order for them to be able to enrol and vote in the next general election. When we look at the purpose and reason why we\u2019re undertaking this exercise, it is critically important that appropriately regulated political donations and loans underpin public trust, the trust that the public have in us as politicians and the integrity of our electoral system. And these institutions are at the very core of the importance of democracy in New Zealand. So it really strikes me that the member who just spoke, Paul Goldsmith, would quibble over the drag of having increased paperwork when what we are talking about are some of the most fundamental facets of our democracy. There is no problem in terms of increased transparency and paperwork if this gives us a more open and fair democracy where the members of the public have a greater level of trust in the work that we do and the way that we are funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it does a range of things. Actually, one other point I\u2019ll make about the previous member\u2019s speech, which I\u2019d like to point out, is that there were some claims I recall hearing: that this legislation was in fact being rushed through by the Minister. What I\u2019d like to highlight to that member is that the Justice Committee over the past five years have undertaken two thorough reviews of the previous election and the 2017 general election. The issue of donations and how donations are funnelled and split and treated was thoroughly examined by the Justice Committee, and that full report was reported back to the House. Subsequently, this term\u2019s Justice Committee has also undertaken a complete review of the 2020 general election, and the interim report of that undertaking has already been delivered to the House. So I would like to highlight that there has been substantial consideration and ample opportunity for members of the public to submit and give their views on the donations process, and all of those submissions and views have been taken into account into getting to this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it lowers the public disclosure threshold for donations and contributions to political parties from $15,000 to $5,000 to make sure that those bigger donations\u2014people are able to see where they are coming from. It also amends the reporting requirements for donations by reducing the threshold from $30,000 to $20,000, and it requires disclosures of donations above this threshold within 10 working days within a general election year. It also requires party secretaries\u2014and this is where I understand the annoyance comes with increased paperwork\u2014to report donations under $1,500 that are not made anonymously, and there are small donations that are made right across the board for many political parties. It also requires party secretaries to disclose their annual financial statements. It requires a return of party donations to specify the total amount of all donations received in money and the total amount of all donations received other than in money\u2014so those other items that might have been provided as a gift, in a sense, that has a value. It also requires candidates to publicly report on loans from unregistered lenders received to support their campaign\u2014another important way we\u2019re increasing transparency in our democratic process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo it saddens me that the National Party will not be supporting a bill that undertakes to try and prevent political donations from having an improper influence on electoral outcomes. It saddens me that they do not want to support a bill that preserves the freedom of political expression and to be able to support any eligible candidate or party. We want to encourage that, and this bill gets that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt is also important that we ensure political parties can raise the funds they need to play a robust role within our MMP political system, and that\u2019s what this bill will endeavour to do\u2014he need for rules to be efficient and practical for participants, such as candidates, such as parties, and also promoters; that we can understand our rules clearly and so that they are clear for not only those who are having to abide by them, but also by those people who are voting in our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELowering the public disclosure threshold for donations and contributions to political parties is a very important point: $15,000 to $5,000. That\u2019s going to have a really big impact on the way that things are done and have been done in the past. It\u2019s important that through requiring party secretaries to disclose their annual financial statements and also requiring a return of party donations to specify the total amount of all donations received in money and the total of all donations received other than money as dated\u2014these are important parts to increase, yes, paperwork, but also transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne other matter that I would like to speak to is the importance of acknowledging the impact that COVID has had upon our voting system and our democracy. Under the current law, New Zealand citizens and permanent residents lose their eligibility to vote if they remain overseas beyond three years for New Zealand citizens and just one year for permanent residents. There have been some very unique challenges that we are well aware of, and citizens and permanent residents who haven\u2019t been able to return home over the past two years, including COVID-19 travel restrictions and mandatory isolation requirements. While many of these requirements have been lifted, overseas voters still face consideration financial, travel, health, and logistical barriers to returning home, including the risk of further COVID-19 restrictions. So by making sure that we extend the eligibility of the period for overseas voters to six years for citizens and four years for permanent residents, this is a temporary measure for the 2023 general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that looks at our current rules and updates those to make sure we are constantly examining how our transparency works, and to give greater faith to those people who turn up to vote on the day that we have a system that\u2019s fair and transparent. We\u2019re also doing a bunch of wider work in terms of electoral reform. And it\u2019s important to touch on that, because it relates to some of these changes. Alongside these amendments, we\u2019re also improving the M\u0101ori electoral option, and we introduced that bill to the House last month, and it\u2019s currently at the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn October last year, the Government announced an independent review of electoral law to ensure the rules remain fit for purpose and also meet the needs for the next generation of voters. We\u2019ve established a bipartisan, independent panel of experts to undertake this review, and I look forward to seeing what they report back on, and also what comes out of that review. As part of this work, the panel will consider our electoral finance framework far more broadly than what this bill does; and, along with this, whether there should be permanent changes to our overseas voting eligibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill, and I\u2019m proud to stand by it to see these changes take place. I hope it not only increases the transparency within our democratic system but encourages more voters than ever to vote in the next general election. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022adb09cb39380462aa948908d3ad5ac6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adb09cb39380462aa948908d3ad5ac6d\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to the Electoral Amendment Bill. Let me start off where the previous contributor finished, and, on a relatively bipartisan note, we\u2019ve said that we think that it it\u2019s helpful for the Government to allow those who\u2019ve been stranded overseas for reasons with which we\u2019re all familiar to be able to exercise their vote in the next general election, notwithstanding that they are outside the time frames that would otherwise apply to be required to be in New Zealand for those periods of time, according to whether they\u2019re citizens or permanent residents. I actually commented on that very issue in a report that I wrote in my capacity as shadow Attorney-General on the bigger question about managed isolation and quarantine, and the inability of New Zealanders to exercise their right under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act to return to this country and it is an issue that we prosecuted, I think, on this side of the House very diligently on behalf of those overseas-based Kiwis, including through my friend and colleague Mr Chris Bishop as our spokesperson in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOn the subject of electoral law, however, in relation to the rest of the bill, we have said\u2014as my colleague and friend Paul Goldsmith has made very plain\u2014that we don\u2019t support either the approach or the specific provisions that are in this bill as proposed by the Government. We certainly hope that the issue will get a better hearing at the select committee than the contribution of the Justice Committee chair just now has indicated. Her own treatment of the subject I thought was limited at best, and I\u2019m being as kind and parliamentary as I can at this late stage of a long week in the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022771a78cfa5e4433585029ccd2cc77870\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s only Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e90b2d687b4478ab18ee314926b4f3\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I think, for example\u2014it\u2019s only Thursday. Well, that\u2019s true. It is now Thursday, whereas earlier in the day it was Wednesday, in a funny kind of extended hours sort of way. But those who are not familiar with parliamentary procedure will probably think that I\u2019m going mad, and some of those who are familiar with it probably would have the same view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn any case, the point that the member made, as though to suggest transparency in itself was an absolute good and not to be weighed against other considerations\u2014some might find that ironic, given the lack of transparency in funding arrangements around her electoral office and related parties. But others will make up their own mind on that and whether that\u2019s an entirely consistent practice with her statements in relation to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ETransparency is a good thing as far as it goes, but so too is the right to privacy, and so too is participation in a democracy, as we would expect, alongside that right and freedom known as freedom of association. Whereas it might be attractive to the other side of politics to claim in support of this bill that members of the public when asked whether there should there be more transparency in relation to political donations, it\u2019s a question that if you frame it in those terms, of course it\u2019s likely to receive some measure of approval. But I think, without acknowledging the extent to which we already have measures for transparency, we already have a disclosure regime, and a pretty modest one at that\u2014and we\u2019ll come back to that\u2014and, as Paul Goldsmith said, the bigger question and the trajectory that we have to ask the Government about, which we look forward to asking the Government about in due course on behalf of the humble but long-suffering taxpayer of this country, is whether there\u2019s an agenda to have greater taxpayer funding of political parties. I don\u2019t imagine that the answer to that question will be one that the political left will necessarily wish to endorse and would regard as any kind of approval for the steps that they are making in this direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOf course, no doubt some would say that such comments would go beyond the scope of the bill\u2014and thank you for not making that charge yourself, Mr Speaker\u2014because, of course, what we are concerned with is an existing regime that they\u2019re looking to tighten up. But the natural effect of saying that it becomes harder and harder for individuals freely to make donations to political parties is that in order to have political campaigns that are meaningful in any way, the parties do need to be able to spend money and participate in other ways. If they are not able to do that in a way that they currently are because the law is tightened to a point of suffocation, then of course then there must be some commensurate increase in funding from some other source. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAmounts of $15,000 or $5,000 are very small in the context of a nationwide election campaign. I think people overseas would regard it as quaint to the point of amusing or bemusing that we are arguing the toss over such small amounts\u2014I mean, of course, with the current Government\u2019s record on inflation, $15,000 even is not much these days, and the $5,000 that they want to make the disclosure limit will get you only a couple of tanks of gas at the current rate, or maybe one sheet of Gib board. So, obviously, we\u2019re talking about pretty small amounts, and certainly, if you weigh that up against the negative effects of restricting participation, then we suddenly start to question what the purpose of the bill is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe chilling effect\u2014you know, we do want people to be able to participate in a democracy in lots of different ways, and there are ways of contributing to a political campaign. Some donate their labour, which is to say their time, their energy, their effort, and, of course, that\u2019s very laudable and I think everyone in this House would state their appreciation for those who participate not only for their own campaigns but also more generally recognising the benefit to democracy as a whole. But there are other ways of participating too. Some people don\u2019t have the time, the energy, to participate in that way, and if some of them wish to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, then I say good luck to them, to whichever party they are contributing. And if they want to do that in a way that\u2019s consistent with the law, then they should be allowed and, indeed, encouraged to do so. If they do that outside the current regime, then we have a court system that is perfectly capable of prosecuting such cases. I don\u2019t want to comment. It would be inappropriate on any such cases that are before or have recently been before the New Zealand courts, but suffice to say that the existence or the fact of cases being brought before the courts in the electoral law space doesn\u2019t mean that the line is drawn in the wrong place. It may only mean\u2014and I emphasise that it may only mean\u2014that, you know, a line has been crossed in a given case, and we\u2019ll find that out soon enough in relation to matters presently before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe previous speakers on the Government side have talked about a broader reform programme in the space of electoral law, and they\u2019re right to acknowledge that. We find it strange that there should be a reform programme that is broader than this, that does encompass these kinds of issues, but notwithstanding that more quickly and separately to that a law change is being pushed through now in a way that aims to beat the clock on that. Of course, what I mean by that is they want these law changes to apply in time for the next election. Again, going back to the point about New Zealand voters who are currently overseas\u2014that\u2019s appropriate, at least as a temporary measure, but in order to restrict the donations regime ahead of the next election in the current political environment, it may be viewed as cynical by some\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afc503c7273944648eb0c655234d9ceb\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Mischief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378318d6dca24c72bd744ff3088fba28\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as mischief indeed, Mr O\u2019Connor, and so it\u2019s difficult to escape the conclusion that there\u2019s a possibility of convenience being applied to the subject of law reform, and that\u2019s pretty unattractive in any sense but certainly in the realm of electoral law. It\u2019s a matter potentially of conflict of interest, and any time in this House that we\u2019re considering electoral law, there\u2019s a possibility\u2014or, indeed, inevitability\u2014that we are judges in our own courts, so those are instances where we need to be particularly careful to be above board, to be consultative, collaborative, and it\u2019s not merely enough to write to the Opposition and announce that a panel is being set up, to seek the input, not necessarily to pay regard to such input, and to proceed with a programme of so-called reform and then, outside that, to push through other changes in a quicker fashion than that. We think that\u2019s not the right way to approach our constitution and these matters that are important not only for political parties but actually, more to the point, for everyday Kiwis. It\u2019s to them that the political system belongs in a democracy. It is to the people that the system belongs, and so we must never forget that in this House when we talk about the rights, the responsibilities, the interests of political parties. It\u2019s not only incumbent parties or those that wish to come in here\u2014and acknowledging that bias towards incumbency that any system one would design of taxpayer funding would have\u2014but to the people of New Zealand that we must consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, of course, the detail\u2019s going to be really important, and I\u2019ll just put one challenge forward to the Minister and the select committee colleagues who will be considering this. We have a particular provision relating to disclosure in the year of a general election, which is different. But in any given year, you don\u2019t know that it\u2019s going to be an election year or not, necessarily. This year, for example, could be a general election year, and we could have to be playing by those rules even now. That\u2019s in the hands of the Prime Minister. Next year could be a general election year, but the following one could also be, under the Electoral Act, if members opposite would care to look that up. So we don\u2019t support this bill, and I think most New Zealanders would not either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u00220221cde60a1f4552ba0f2a375ad330ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220221cde60a1f4552ba0f2a375ad330ac\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m a little bit disheartened by the contributions from Opposition members on this bill. I do think that when it comes to electoral reform in particular, there are times when we\u2019re asked to rise to the challenge of stepping outside our own interest and protecting the integrity of electoral process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo let me start with where I think we agree. Ginny Andersen spoke earlier about the balance. She spoke repeatedly about a balance, but Opposition members have also spoken about the balance. There\u2019s no intention to shift the dial totally one way or totally the other. The question is where the dial ought to sit at any given moment in time, given changes to how the online space operates and given changes to trust, which I\u2019ll talk about in a moment. But the appropriate place to talk about where balance sits is at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EAnd I guess what I\u2019m perplexed with is that Opposition members have spoken about a number of items contained within this bill to which they agree. And the thing to do in those cases is to refer the bill to select committee so that we can have that appropriate discussion at select committee. If no other bill requires it, it is a bill about our electoral process which requires that due process. There\u2019s a saying that goes \u201CDemocracy is the most faith-fuelled activity there is.\u201D And for me, if you substitute the word \u201Ctrust\u201D for the word \u201Cfaith\u201D, I believe that\u2019s true: trust is the currency of the modern world, and while it can\u2019t be denied that our institutions like Parliament are the bricks, the mortar, it\u2019s really that sense of trust that people have in those systems. Trust in the space of democracy and politics is about protecting transparency, to demonstrate that there\u2019s a fair competition of ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EAnd, again, we recognise that there\u2019s a need to balance. There are some circumstances where, very validly, we\u2019re protecting both the right of political expression\u2014and I absolutely agree that people should be able to contribute not just their volunteerism but also their finances to support causes that they believe in, but it is a balance. And where there is no public interest in sharing that information, it shouldn\u2019t be shared. It\u2019s a balance. We need to discuss it; we need to give it robust intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the need? What is the state of political trust in New Zealand? Well, we know internationally that we\u2019ve had reports from the Edelman Trust Barometer that haven\u2019t shown a retreat in trust, but they\u2019ve certainly seen a decrease in political trust. And even Opposition members have referred to the survey undertaken by Victoria University which showed that almost 70 percent of respondents indicated they didn\u2019t have a reasonable amount of trust in party funding. This was specific research, along with the Ministry of Justice research, where the respondents asked for greater transparency. It is a balance, it is a balance\u2014it is a balance. The Opposition members acknowledge this, so they should acknowledge that where that discussion needs to happen is at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to speak about the detail of the bill. I believe we will have time to do that at select committee. And, also, those provisions were covered by Ginny Andersen, but it includes lowering the thresholds in terms of when reporting obligations apply. They are not lowered to zero. Again, this is demonstrative of it being a balance. But the lowering of those thresholds is not the totality of the bill; Opposition members have acknowledged that. There are other things that are in this bill that need to be acted on. I hope Opposition members acknowledge that there are New Zealanders who are citizens, who are residents, who would, or may, if this bill does not proceed, lose the opportunity to vote in the next elections because of COVID travel-related circumstances that are happening in today\u2019s world. I hope the Opposition members would acknowledge that there is utility in legislative certainty around when an election period applies as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe Opposition members agree with many points in this bill; they have said so\u2014they have said so this afternoon. It is time to take it to select committee so that we can demonstrate our whole of Parliament effort to demonstrate integrity in this space. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c08143f1858b4ec199129c5da4645e50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c08143f1858b4ec199129c5da4645e50\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise today, on this Thursday afternoon, to talk about democracy. In particular, for me, it\u2019s a subject matter very close to my heart, and I do have a bill on strengthening democracy that has been drawn from the ballot coming up before the House that does engage with exactly the issues that the Government bill today engages with. So I am proud, and I congratulate the Minister, the Hon Kiritapu Allan, for picking up an important aspect of my bill in part, which is the lowering of the anonymity threshold for political donations. As a previous member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, Vanushi Walters, pointed out, this was something that surveys and studies repeatedly have shown New Zealanders are concerned about and their concerns should be taken seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on something that a member from the Opposition pointed out, which is to say that electoral reform should be done in good faith and not through party politicking. The way that we do that is to listen to things like academic studies; recommendations of the Electoral Commission, an expert body that regularly does consult, writes reports, and tells us what is missing from our democracy; and our Justice Committee that regularly reviews the experience and outcomes of general elections, which was of course done after the 2020 general election. So I will answer the question that the Hon Paul Goldsmith put, which is to say: where did this idea come from, that lowering the anonymity threshold of political donations will address the issue of people bypassing our electoral laws by chopping up donations? It came from the Electoral Commission\u2019s recommendations repeatedly to different Justice Committees. It came from the Serious Fraud Office itself. It came from New Zealand Police. It came from those who are entrusted with investigating cases where people do chop up electoral donations to go below the thresholds that we as a Parliament and a public in a democratic society decided should be declared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo they\u2019ve asked for the tools to investigate, effectively, and apply the existing law by making transparency more apparent in our electoral rules. I do note also that when I first put my strengthening democracy member\u2019s bill into the ballot last term, I was told repeatedly that electoral reform wasn\u2019t a priority because we were all waiting for some consensus around all of that. What politicking looks like is the former Government, and I think that was under the Hon Judith Collins as Justice Minister, burying reports of the Electoral Commission on strengthening MMP, ignoring findings of the Supreme Court and the Waitangi Tribunal on the need for electoral reform in specific issues. The Electoral Commission in its MMP review consulted with over 4,000 New Zealanders and experts. If you\u2019re willing to bury the outcomes of inquiries like that and expert recommendations like that, then that is the party playing politics with electoral reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo it has become a priority because three of the five elected parliamentary parties in the previous Government last term did come into question in terms of the types of systems they had in place when they took electoral donations\u2014and I\u2019m using all of these words euphemistically, because, actually, two of them came to be investigated by the Serious Fraud Office for criminal activity when it comes to electoral donations. And as others have said, we don\u2019t comment on the outcomes of court cases in here. That is to say we don\u2019t say where the court case outcomes are good or bad, but it would be remiss of us to ignore when issues are highlighted through the courts, to prioritise addressing those issues, and to open them for debate through a select committee process. So this bill does that with lowering the anonymity threshold. I would say that the Green Party states our position through my bill that the threshold should be lowered even further to $1,000 rather than $5,000, but this is a good start and that is something that will be heard in select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhat I would say, though, is that the Government does now need to add to this bill the loopholes that have been recently uncovered through the New Zealand First Foundation case in court so that those issues can be rightly considered by this House and through select committee, where donations can be made to entities other than political parties to bypass electoral law. That\u2019s an issue. It\u2019s an issue because we have as a nation decided on a one vote per person democracy. Democracy lends itself to equality, inclusion, and access. None of that works when our democracy, our fundamental human rights, are for sale on the free market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve heard from a former National Party leader\u2014that was the Hon Simon Bridges last term when he was asked about political donations before that party got in trouble itself and was investigated by the Serious Fraud Office for its acts around accepting possibly foreign political donations in circumstances where that investigation was necessitated. Before that, when he spoke about the need for limits on political donations, limits to curtail interference by big money in our democracy, he said, \u201CWell, that\u2019s a free speech issue.\u201D Imagine thinking that rights like the freedom of speech, let alone democracy, should be up for sale to the highest bidder. That is the ethos that has hindered electoral reform in this House, through successive Governments, because it favours the big parties. And we do know\u2014we do know\u2014that, of the $1.4 million in donations that the National Party accepted last election, 71 percent were done in secret.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWho is taking a stake in our democracy? Who gets more of a vote than somebody else? We know that New Zealand First, because that was leaked through emails, they actually interfered with the Government\u2019s plan to put cameras on boats, on commercial fishing boats, to enforce our fisheries laws\u2014a huge issue in combating the biodiversity crisis\u2014because of their donations and their seen link in the favour they owed to major commercial fishery donors. What else has been sunk in this House and through successive Governments because of secret big money donations? What about the capital gains tax? What about rent controls? Who is hindering climate action? We know overseas that this happens. We\u2019ve seen the gun lobby in the US. We\u2019ve seen the big oil companies taking a stake in slowing climate action. And New Zealanders deserve better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI will say that one of the things that the Hon Paul Goldsmith got wrong, and a few I\u2019ve corrected in this, was to say that the line taken that actually we need to limit political donations severely and look at public funding of political donations was the Green Party\u2019s. It was actually the former National Party Prime Minister Jim Bolger who came out with that idea. So this seems to be a different National Party, it does seem to be one that\u2019s a bit more cynical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224caf2dea65e24e24b10257352875c201\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve been listening very carefully to Miss Ghahraman\u2019s contribution and I do worry, sir, that she is running the risk of breaching Speaker\u2019s ruling 53/2, which is a ruling of Chairperson Robertson\u2014out of order to suggest a member takes payment to act in a certain way\u2014and the member must be careful not to do that. Some of the remarks by Miss Ghahraman have come very close to the line; in fact, I would argue have crossed it, in relation to alleging that particular actions by members of the past Parliament and the current Parliament have taken place because of payments or donations to political parties. I just ask you, sir, to warn her in relation to that, because to impugn the motives of a member of this House is a very, very serious allegation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290cff7a70eca4265953e81f5a9c34f71\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for the point of order. I, too, was listening very carefully. I have to say, you know, the difference between making comment about members and party\u2014I actually think there was a moment there when the member did come very close. I\u2019m going to ask the member to desist in taking those lines. The member\u2019s very close to being completely out of order. So I thank Chris Bishop for raising it and I warn the member about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d996a7d6574f639d2c24a5ea175acb\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, sir. To come back to the bill, this is a good bill. It\u2019s a good start. It allows us to look at what we mean when we say that we have a fair, equal, and inclusive democracy. It allows a debate on the issue of anonymity of political donations, in select committee, as the public would expect. What I would call upon the Government to do is to look more carefully at all of the range of electoral reforms that are enumerated in my Electoral (Strengthening Democracy) Amendment Bill, a member\u2019s bill. All of them have come from a place of having been already heard, or commented upon, or recommended strongly by either the Electoral Commission, the Justice Committee, the Supreme Court, the Waitangi Tribunal, or the Court of Appeal after vast consideration. It is time that, while the Working Group on Democracy considers other new issues, we address the delay in the issues that have hindered our democracy, according to the independent experts, without party politicking, and allow the public to have its say, allow them to regain trust in our already very strong democracy. So thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00221bdc049cb5954cdb9d2f9bba689ab80e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bdc049cb5954cdb9d2f9bba689ab80e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to this Electoral Amendment Bill. I\u2019m afraid to say that what we\u2019ve heard from the Green member and the Labour members confirms everything I was concerned about with this legislation. None of them have been able to answer the simple question: why is a $5,000 declaration limit better than a $15,000 declaration limit? Because apart from some mainly administrative matters, that\u2019s what\u2019s at stake in this bill\u2014besides one very important measure of allowing Kiwis trapped overseas due to COVID and our Government\u2019s closure of the border and various other inconveniences, allowing them to cast a vote and not be caught under the clause of having been out of the country for three years when they may not have otherwise chosen to be. We think that those people should be given dispensation to vote, but the question is: what kind of democracy are they coming back to vote in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis particular law is an absolute abomination. It is introduced by a Labour Party to be passed, having won one election, to change the rules for the next one. People at home may wonder what\u2019s wrong with that. Well, what\u2019s wrong with that is that traditionally, in New Zealand, we have had both sides of the House come together and agree about what the electoral laws should be, and, for really big changes such as the shift to the MMP voting system, ask the people in a referendum. Once this Parliament starts a tradition where one side comes in and changes the law without consulting or getting the agreement or consensus of the other, then we find ourselves with a political system that would be a lot more familiar to Americans, a lot more familiar to people who live in a political system where one side literally gets to change the electoral boundaries to their advantage when they win power. The other side, when it gets in, tries to change them back, but often doesn\u2019t because the playing field is already tilted against them. That is how you have people losing faith in an electoral system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo if this Labour Party wants to grow people\u2019s faith in democracy, if this Green Party is sincere about trust in our democracy, then the first thing they should do is taihoa, hang back, and wait until they\u2019ve got some consensus on this law. They\u2019re not going to do that. And some people might say, \u201CAh, but this is so important. It\u2019s so evidently and clearly the right thing to do that it doesn\u2019t matter if there\u2019s consensus. It doesn\u2019t matter if half the Parliament disagrees. As long as it gets done, it doesn\u2019t matter if it screws the scrum before the next election, as long as it gets done, that\u2019s in the public good.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWell, now I turn to whether or not this law change is in the public good. I refer to a letter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eb58e68c7884a33b641e5bcb442fda3\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226acca39018a54c1792666fbba28f9b2c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that I received from the Hon Kris Faafoi, and that is preventing political donations. I just heard from Julie Anne Genter, saying, \u201CNothing to hide, nothing to fear.\u201D Does she know that she\u2019s quoting Goebbels? Bet she didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi said that regulation of political donations therefore needs to weigh up competing factors\u2014needs to weigh up competing factors\u2014such as preventing political donations from having an improper influence on electoral outcomes. Well that is something that we should all want. It then says another competing factor is preserving freedom of political expression; i.e., freedom to support any eligible candidate or party one chooses, and, in association, donors\u2019 right to privacy. And another important issue is ensuring political parties can access financial support to play a robust role within an MMP system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo there you have it. You need to make sure there\u2019s no improper influence on political parties, make sure that people have freedom of expression to give what they want to give so long as they\u2019re not improperly influencing it, and ensure political parties are properly funded. That is the fundamental trade-off when setting a disclosure level, when the Parliament decides how much you should be able to give a political party before you will be publicly named.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is saying is that they would like to drop that to make sure that all people who give more than $5,000 will be publicly named. No longer $15,000; $5,000 and you\u2019ll have to be publicly named. And why is that a problem? Well, the problem is that nobody is currently getting any undue influence over a political party for $15,000. Now, there\u2019s some members in the Labour Party who think that\u2019s possible. The member in the Green Party thought that maybe someone was getting undue influence on a political party for $15,000, but they don\u2019t think there\u2019ll be undue influence at $5,000. Well, there\u2019s two problems with that. Number one is what it reveals about their thinking. Measuring the minds of others by their own, they think that there is a price you could be bought for\u2014and pretty low by the sounds of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen the next question is that they actually think that price will apply at $15,000, but not at $5,000. Well, I can tell you, Mr Speaker, I have been the chief fundraiser for the ACT Party for the last eight years\u2014and pretty successful, I\u2019ve got to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d252eafd309406399bf076b6c60ae87\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f052d66674d34a1aafa01af8e6754c34\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: And I have to say\u2014well, the National Party are guffawing. Well, they copy my techniques.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565bd4f2da5b47c5a8f2cc0ae926e2c8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: No, no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227651e96598e2451291a7009696fb4298\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Yeah, he admits it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, here\u2019s the thing: you don\u2019t buy undue influence over a political party for any amount, in ACT\u2019s view, and certainly not for $15,000. So what will be the effect of dropping this disclosure threshold? Well, I can tell you that people will not give or they will not give as much, because the first question donors ask is, \u201CWill this be published? Will my name be put up in lights?\u201D And people say, \u201CLook, I support what you do. I agree with your party, but my business has Government contracts and I think the guys in there right now are vindictive.\u201D Sorry to say it, but the one-term wonders on the backbench who no amount of campaign contribution will save in 18 months\u2019 time should be thinking about it. That\u2019s what their Government stands for. That\u2019s how people feel under their Government. They fear retribution and vindictiveness from this Government; I hear it frequently. So they will not give over the disclosure limit. What it means is that if everyone who gave between $5,000 and $15,000 in 2020 dropped their donation to $5,000, you know what would happen? There would be $1.2 million less donated to political parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd that was that other objective: ensuring political parties can access financial support to play a robust role within an MMP system. Something, interestingly, that is not featured at all in the Ministry of Justice regulatory impact statement. I have to wonder who\u2019s writing these. Maybe someone in the Ministry of Justice is trying to get a list position in the Labour Party and is fudging it. You have to wonder, don\u2019t you? I think that we need to ask ourselves: how is it possible that the Labour Party thinks this is a good idea? Why would they want less funding for political parties? Why would they want to make it harder for political parties to raise money so they can hold meetings and put out advertising and put videos on social media and do things to express to voters what they would like for this country so that more voters can choose? Why would they want to reduce that funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWell, the clue is in the composition of donations returned by each party. You see, if you look at how much each party raised between $5,000 and $15,000, it\u2019s not a good picture for Labour and the Greens. You know, people don\u2019t give them that much. What they want to do is hackle at donations attracted by ACT and National, because, of that $1.2 million of donations given between $5,000 and $15,000 that would be affected by this rule change, $300,000 was given to ACT, about $575,000 was given to National, about $147,000 to Labour, and only $68,000 to the Greens. Well, the problem they have is that ACT actually raised more money in that category than the Greens and Labour combined. And that\u2019s not our problem; that\u2019s their problem. There\u2019s no undue influence. It\u2019s fund-raising. It\u2019s people freely expressing their political views in privacy, without any undue influence whatsoever, if these people knew anything about it. What this is, is the Labour Party using the political mandate that they won at the last election to screw the scrum, affect their opponents\u2019 funding, and try and tip the balance of the next election in their favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019ll say to the one-term wonders on the backbenches of the Labour Party, those ones that usually only get to speak for one minute because, you know, the Ministers have got lots of work to do\u2014well, I\u2019ll tell you what, they ain\u2019t going to be here for much longer and no amount of donations is going to save them, I\u2019m sorry to say. This law won\u2019t save them. But they should ask themselves, when they\u2019re gone, \u201CDid I stand up for sound public policy, good problem definition, and strengthening our democracy genuinely, or was I a partisan hack?\u201D And I think they know what the answer is. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00227dd7f8b157bc4053ada4c72c53d29b96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dd7f8b157bc4053ada4c72c53d29b96\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 2 August 2022. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20220728915788994dc242958475788abd2a754c000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"