"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a94ec2446ec44d0f83d044ee2e00e560\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c0b0da5d36e49c199db7ebea2c62ff4\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022942268aef7c246859b152affff40f6b3\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227357a4a326df46649f61bce78ccecb3b\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002259442a8107d74955bb17a75cbbd794b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259442a8107d74955bb17a75cbbd794b7\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1348641321640e0b580a20fad5839f8\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9aab6b5dea9465eaea8fc54600707d6\u0022\u003EMikhail Gorbachev\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00225715e0a08e2e456f91b147ceb59bb93e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225715e0a08e2e456f91b147ceb59bb93e\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice to mark the passing of Mikhail Gorbachev.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e887a1cbd0f94c78a3cb098800c06a16\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea54c1708134df19a68da2cc68065a2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House acknowledges the passing of the former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, whose leadership was instrumental in peacefully ending the Cold War and promoting disarmament and democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMikhail Gorbachev was one of the 20th century\u2019s most notable leaders and politicians. As General Secretary and as President, Mr Gorbachev brought strategic ambition and courage to his vision for the Soviet Union. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMr Gorbachev came to power in 1985. At 54 he was seen as a young man in the role, and he followed a succession of elderly and fragile leaders. The Soviet economy was stagnant, and in 1984 he is reported to have said to his future Foreign Minister, \u201CWe cannot live this way any longer.\u201D His policies of perestroika and glasnost to reform the USSR economy and society were radical in their attempts to reform the communist system. Mr Gorbachev was a man of purpose, determination, and resilience. The UN Secretary Ant\u00F3nio Guterres has hailed Mr Gorbachev as having done more than any other individual to bring about the peaceful end of the Cold War.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMr Gorbachev also faced significant foreign policy challenges, perhaps none greater than the threat of nuclear weapons. In his initial months in power, Gorbachev announced a unilateral freeze on deploying intermediate range missiles in Europe. Through engagement and dialogue, and with US President Reagan as a partner, he offered a different view of the world\u2019s future, amplified by this statement, \u201CA nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.\u201D Gorbachev\u2019s relentless efforts on nuclear disarmament and arms control reminds us of what is possible and can be achieved, even in times of conflict and heightened tensions. Mr Gorbachev understood the counterbalance required to preserve stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI want to be clear: the promise of reform under Mr Gorbachev does not match the realities of what we are seeing in Russia today. The New Zealand Government continues to condemn Russia\u2019s illegal invasion of Ukraine. This is a breach of international law where innocent lives are being lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAs we mark the passing of Mr Gorbachev, it is concerning to see Russia ignoring the lessons of his legacy, including a new threat of nuclear disaster at Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine. With this in mind, it\u2019s fitting to end with Mr Gorbachev\u2019s own words: \u201CThere will be no winner in a war of all against all, particularly if it ends in a nuclear war. Faced with this dire threat to peace, we are not helpless. We must not resign. We must not surrender\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, e te t\u014Dtara haemata, e moe, e okioki, haere atu r\u0101, Pai M\u0101rire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[And so to the great leader, rest in peace, Pai M\u0101rire.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002242191f1fc3b642488bb69d34f921e6a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242191f1fc3b642488bb69d34f921e6a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226d427b912993445a80e1199624b7a446\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d427b912993445a80e1199624b7a446\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the National Party to join the Government in passing this motion today. As time goes on, there\u2019ll be fewer and fewer in parliaments like this who will remember the uncertainty and the fear that the words and images of the Iron Curtain and the Cold War conveyed. In the stand-off environment between the Soviet Union and the US, that fear was fuelled by an arms race that saw the development and installation of some 63,000 nuclear warheads equally divided between those two countries. It had to end at some point, and although Mikhail Gorbachev rose to the leadership of the USSR committed to the Marxist-Leninist communist system, he was clearly a man of vision and peaceful intention. Post the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, Gorbachev saw the need for change and introduced the words \u201Cglasnost\u201D\u2014openness\u2014and \u201Cperestroika\u201D\u2014reconstruction\u2014to the international vocabulary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOn the world stage, he exuded a comforting warmth. That was his personal style\u2014the man who was telling the world that he wanted better for his people. It was this positioning that significantly reduced the fear and suspicion of those Cold War years. He embarked on summits with President Reagan of the United States to limit nuclear weapons and to end the Cold War. He ended the long Soviet-Afghanistan war, and he encouraged freer speech and democratised the Duma in his own country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHe was not, though, without his critics. Some say he went too far too quickly, and that led to the destruction of the Soviet Union. Post 1990 and the fall of the Berlin Wall, many Soviet states reclaimed their individual nationhood, and they thrive today. But despite his critics, he survived coup attempts, and I think that shows his vision was shared by many who were around him at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHis award of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 was much deserved, and served as an acknowledgment of the new and more peaceful world order his leadership ushered in. In the 30 years since his leadership concluded, it\u2019s an open question as to how well the legacy of glasnost and perestroika have served to the benefit of the Russian people. Without commenting on the current political leadership in Russia but concurring with the thoughts expressed by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, I think it\u2019s fair to say that Mikhail Gorbachev does leave a legacy as one of the great positive influences of the 20th century\u2014a legacy and a vision that may well better serve the Russian people today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00229321d37425ad4025875abe9d79c86aed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229321d37425ad4025875abe9d79c86aed\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green) (remote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, we acknowledge the passing of Mikhail Gorbachev, a significant 20th century leader with a complicated legacy. As politicians, this is perhaps a reminder to us all that our actions will continue to be judged throughout our lives and beyond. Iran\u2019s biggest land-bordering neighbour during my childhood there was the USSR. I remember his as the cat because \u201Cgorbe\u201D means cat in Farsi and there were endless jokes about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut I also remember the refugees fleeing oppression across the border and the nation States that formed and were dismantled. This was a man who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for helping bring an end to the Cold War and who reduced the threat of nuclear warfare to all civilisation. He also, I found out today, [Audio issue] Green Cross International. But I do want to acknowledge that while the end of the USSR enabled many countries to achieve some level of democracy and self-determination, it was also followed by significant hardship and regional turmoil. Terrible conflicts came in its wake. I want to acknowledge Chechnya and its people. I also want to acknowledge the people of Central and South America who experienced interference. The wounds of that time remain fresh for many across the world especially in that region, and that can\u2019t be forgotten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhile New Zealand continues our proud history of advocating against nuclear armament, honouring the legacy that we say belongs to Gorbachev would mean that we stand as an independent, principled voice on the global stage today. It would mean refusing to recourse into old Cold War allegiances. It would mean scrutinising our allegiances to Five Eyes. It would mean scrutinising opaque military agreements that we enter into in the Pacific either on the side of the US or against China. We must call out our friends and allies for human rights breaches. We must commit to sustained cooperation and commitment across the political world as we advocate for peace and for solutions to the greatest global crisis of our time: the climate crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00226e0b7ee2ced44efcbd3d7fa38f91284c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e0b7ee2ced44efcbd3d7fa38f91284c\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to acknowledge the passing of the great Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. Mr Gorbachev showed extraordinary leadership and increased human freedoms for hundreds of millions of people living in the former Soviet Union. His actions reunified a divided Germany, removed the Iron Curtain that divided Europe after the Second World War, and brought the Cold War to an end peacefully. He is one of the great leaders of the 20th century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EHe is a man who chose peace, cooperation, and democracy and sought a better life for the people in the Soviet Union. He was a leader who saw the dignity of individuals over the group, and I wish to quote him directly. He said, \u201CIn the name of Communism we abandoned basic human values. So when I came to power in Russia, I started to restore those values; values of openness and freedom.\u201D He did so by embracing democratic reform and gave freedoms to millions of individuals by introducing key political and economic reforms to the Soviet Union, with the first being glasnost\u2014transparency and openness\u2014by allowing ordinary citizens to openly criticise the State, ending official censorship, publishing banned literature, and by helping to kick start independent journalism; and perestroika\u2014the liberalisation of the economy and trade\u2014allowing for more open and foreign trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ELike many New Zealanders today, the Soviet Union fell before I was born. But Mikhail Gorbachev\u2019s legacy is relevant more than ever today, with this striving for democracy and openness, as we see the current Russian leader turn to conflict over cooperation and restrict freedoms of speech, the media, and freedoms of association. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EMr Gorbachev said, \u201CMy life\u2019s work has been accomplished. I did all that I could.\u201D However, we must continue to strive for democracy, for open Government, transparency, international rules-based order, cooperation, and upholding the rights and dignities of all people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party calls on the Russian Government to honour his legacy by withdrawing from Ukraine. Once again, we acknowledge the great life and contribution of Mikhail Gorbachev to democracy, freedom, and transparent Government and we want to share our condolences with his family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229069cf92b9c84014963c88e3dce38b72\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b3855ad84a84782b808070aabe0c559\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a21c562f63a640b78c0d142cfcf714bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a21c562f63a640b78c0d142cfcf714bf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, the House will adjourn until Tuesday, 13 September. Legislation to be considered in that week will include the third reading of the Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill, along with all stages of an imprest supply bill; the committee stage and third reading of the Maniapoto Claims Settlement Bill; the committee stages of the Accident Compensation (Maternal Birth Injury and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, the Construction Contracts (Retention Money) Amendment Bill, and the Plant Variety Rights Bill; and the third readings of the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill and the Screen Industry Workers Bill. There will be an extended sitting on the morning of Wednesday, 14 September, and Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcf25326df34083871080e89f5fb057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcf25326df34083871080e89f5fb057\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for the update. It won\u2019t surprise him to learn that I\u2019m interested, as I\u2019m sure we all are, as to what the current status of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2022-23, Platform Economy, and Remedial Matters) Bill is, which appeared on the Order Paper on Tuesday, but has been removed from the Order Paper today. Has that bill been discharged by the Minister in charge, who I believe is the Minister of Revenue\u2014although there is some dispute about that\u2014and is it the Government\u2019s intention to reintroduce the bill, because, of course, we do have to set the annual rates for 2022/2023 at some point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223608dd1a68bf4b1c974e8573a1534c78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223608dd1a68bf4b1c974e8573a1534c78\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I can assure the member that it is absolutely the Government\u2019s intention to introduce a taxation annual rates bill, and that will be done very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022065e96f1c1c646c48c8aeec4b9fb032a\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d14be30b54ff4b67b1a526c7e44f8a2d\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022337f595bc4dd4ff6a0a628f83a95c353\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022337f595bc4dd4ff6a0a628f83a95c353\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2f68659b70e4462a77d7185a984dcfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2f68659b70e4462a77d7185a984dcfa\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Augusta Macassey-Pickard for Coromandel Watchdog of Hauraki requesting that the House place an immediate moratorium on accepting, processing, or granting applications for prospecting, exploration, or mining permits on, in, or under public conservation land in Aotearoa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Sally Walker requesting that the House suspend the implantation of vaginally inserted mesh sling for stress urinary incontinence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002269bdee1496104daaa4f5e5f57b63aced\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269bdee1496104daaa4f5e5f57b63aced\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Papers have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d648b5f7ec164bb3891d4ffbfaaf5f84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d648b5f7ec164bb3891d4ffbfaaf5f84\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment Response to Report of the Social Services and Community Committee on Petition of Sue Brown\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EJudicial Conduct Commissioner report for the year to 31 July 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5ae0f8703004ea4997b8acb18e48070\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5ae0f8703004ea4997b8acb18e48070\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00228565fe5793444368a8370e2dfadebbaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228565fe5793444368a8370e2dfadebbaf\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Education and Workforce Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of James Hilford, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Controller and Auditor-General, Inquiry into managing fees paid by South Auckland Middle School and Middle School West Auckland in 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, Monetary Policy Statement, August 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Health Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2020-21 annual review of the Lakes District Health Board and West Coast District Health Board, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Carmen Shanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229a5471aa2e274b9cb8cf0b228a9a0e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a5471aa2e274b9cb8cf0b228a9a0e66\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report of the Education and Workforce Committee on the Controller and Auditor-General\u2019s inquiry and the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee are set down for consideration. There are no bills for introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baf0ade261b24950943358991599d038\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad484d6aeb0242f08bf97a417c35da0e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257f306a997be464c80f7b9d6c7fa2b7c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9e686fbd09d4395a4df967d17ee4eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9e686fbd09d4395a4df967d17ee4eb9\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities: What progress, if any, has this Government made towards addressing the issues identified by rainbow communities in the first Counting Ourselves survey 2019, in light of the second survey being launched today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1f8be9372424f5b84ba6cfc297b61d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1f8be9372424f5b84ba6cfc297b61d7\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities):\u003C/span\u003E I am aware that recommendation eight of the survey is focused on ethnic communities. I also know that since taking office, the then Office of Ethnic Communities started building relationships across rainbow communities. There has been a focus by the Ministry for Ethnic Communities to continue developing and strengthening those relationships. I also know that the priorities and the strategy of the new Ministry for Ethnic Communities were developed with input from rainbow ethnic communities, and that they are also named as a priority group within the strategy. Furthermore, the ministry has provided funding to rainbow communities through the ethnic communities development fund, and that includes funding to the Wellington Pride Festival and projects by Adhikaar Aotearoa. The ministry continues to build strong relationships and is also part of the cross-agency rainbow network that\u2019s a forum for collaboration across the Public Service to raise the profile of rainbow communities and their inclusion within the broader Public Service. Finally, with regard to the Counting Ourselves survey, I know that the ministry has been working with the agency administering the survey to ensure that the voices of rainbow ethnic communities are included as part of that survey so as to be able to inform future work as well. Just finally, the responsibility to support and address issues faced by our rainbow communities sits across Government, rather than in just one portfolio or one agency. We can see that quite clearly in the work undertaken by my colleagues across the health, justice, and youth portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b64c3f0353042d39d4bbf32759032b8\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: What progress, is she aware of, has been made on enabling clear pathways for gender-affirming healthcare, including gender-affirming surgeries, given the unmet need for healthcare is as high as 67 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d865404c8ead40bab9361d164367ee3c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as you\u2019re responsible. There\u2019s an element in there that I don\u2019t think you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab432987897542dbbe0e9ffd7cb2a876\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As I mentioned, in as far as I\u2019m responsible as the Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities, I think I\u2019ve outlined the work that the ministry\u2019s been doing in this space. There is work towards the issue that the member\u2019s raised, but that sits within the delegations of the Associate Minister of Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c34b4a43a446348b19180bb5d8d001\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: Will she work with her officials to ensure resources are dedicated to health and wellbeing initiatives led by trans and non-binary communities and organisations, such as PATHA, the Professional Association for Transgender Health Aotearoa, to ensure equitable outcomes for rainbow people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8f2a679f5e48a69680a90ca53258b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, in so far as the Minister is responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4295057b9d644ecbcc04762c9b25d58\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you, Mr Speaker. Once again, I am aware that there is work under way across Government that sits within various portfolios. I also know that, from conversations with the Minister for Youth, there is funding towards those communities through the youth portfolio too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f510a15fce420e8935c4055568cea5\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: What progress, if she\u2019s aware of it, has been made to better protect trans and non-binary people from discrimination, which two-thirds of them experience?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9ae2c313f0412183b6e76bbff943d2\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for the question because we do know that, particularly, young people within rainbow communities are at greater risk of being discriminated against, bullied, and harassed. All of my portfolios stand against that sort of behaviour that we\u2019ve seen quite recently perpetrated on rainbow young people in their spaces as well. As I mentioned, you know, through the Ministry for Ethnic Communities more broadly, there is funding to support the wellbeing of rainbow ethnic communities, and equally through other portfolio-specific funding towards supporting their wellbeing as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271b8103157c4472a90e7bc696f176660\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support making gender identity, gender expression, and sex characteristics prohibited grounds of discrimination under the Human Rights Act, and, if so, why has the Government decided not to progress this work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068630d61e3e45769d0e212f0338c6d2\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have responsibility for that. I understand that that falls within the portfolio responsibilities of my colleague Minister Allan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c966c4083b0e43129b0464fadb55df67\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that a new ministry for rainbow issues would help address and pull together the range of concerns raised in the 2019 Counting Ourselves report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5049a23d0d4973b65233967083115d\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve pointed to in previous responses, there is work under way across various portfolios that this Government is responsible for\u2014more broadly, right from banning conversion therapy to being the first Government to provide targeted nation-wide funding for mental health services supporting rainbow young people, reducing wait times for gender-affirming surgery, and lifting the cap on the number of publicly funded surgeries. I think it\u2019s clear from the track record of this Government that there\u2019s a fair bit of work under way across various Government agencies and portfolios, and that\u2019s how it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f17ba3e3cd64c0c9e02ef6a68dfc844\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222857b8b3f7b4489fbad6917ea2634086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222857b8b3f7b4489fbad6917ea2634086\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222f7c7a890c1949968f21833b67663795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f7c7a890c1949968f21833b67663795\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Prime Minister: On behalf of the Prime Minister, yes, particularly our work to improve access to mental wellbeing services by expanding the school-based Mana Ake wellbeing programme to more than 3,000 primary- and intermediate-aged school children living on the West Coast. Mana Ake is a school-based programme that gives around 195,000 children the skills and support to deal with issues that include grief, loss, parental separation, and bullying. It also provides advice, guidance, and workshops for parents, wh\u0101nau, and teachers. Budget 2022 provided $90 million of funding over four years for the Mana Ake programme to enable ongoing service delivery in Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura and start new services in Northland, Counties Manukau, Bay of Plenty, Lakes, and on the West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf56131c78343d1a085ae79464ae70d\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement in May this year that \u201CWe are not doing any work on any additional tax policy.\u201D, and how does she reconcile that statement with Cabinet\u2019s decision to change KiwiSaver tax policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208575880b8cc481db910638f7ee235d0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, every Government in every year, through Inland Revenue, will look at ways to refine and improve the tax system. If the member is seriously suggesting that no work should be done around tax integrity or tax avoidance issues, that perhaps speaks more to the member\u2019s priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a935446909a4f38af7de091532393e5\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has she asked the Minister of Revenue about what other new revenue-gathering taxes he might be cooking up, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f60e3fd29324b75a2e1b78a18937693\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister stays in contact with her Ministers on a regular basis and is very confident in the work of the Minister of Revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225330e6de13fa4ca3b2f8a90c104f1d01\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that the Minister of Revenue has a new IRD unit of six full-time employees working on a capital gains research project, and can she explain to New Zealanders what the purpose of this unit is if not to cook up new taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30d017989744ff690491f2ee3e57fda\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister is not aware of what the member has said. What the Prime Minister is aware of is that the Minister of Revenue has been undertaking work which was publicised at the time of the Budget to make sure that all New Zealanders pay their fair share of tax\u2014that, we know, is not an issue that\u2019s important to the National Party, given their tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222bb8b0e74214cad8b9c0717ca502477\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of that statement and the Prime Minister\u2019s attraction to this capital gains unit, will she rule out introducing tax changes for residential property?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1c5f92294749108b4eae792b16fe6a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister has been very clear that there are no new taxes being created by this Government, beyond that on which we campaigned. Given that the Leader of the Opposition is now taking his policy advice from the Minister of Finance, can I suggest that the National Party would be better off focusing on whether or not giving tax cuts to the wealthiest New Zealanders represents good policy. I might do a general debate on that next time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca744603f092463bafaaba419085634f\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Are you regretting the last general debate? Was Cabinet informed of any alternative\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e72cc8306a84cf3ba9283a96f3a778b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that she shouldn\u2019t start supplementaries with a narrative of the previous answer to the question that\u2019s been considered. Consider yourself told off!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abef30b051b24adabaac682704d9f2f5\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Was Cabinet informed of any alternative options for dealing with KiwiSaver GST\u2014for example, option three from this regulatory impact statement, which proposed simply making all KiwiSaver fees exempt from GST, providing the Minister of Revenue\u2019s much-sought consistency, and reducing the tax burden by $20 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c10d6d413c48399515de2e38c4d3d5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, all of the options that were considered by the Minister of Revenue and other Ministers had both pros and cons. The example that the member gives would have seen smaller New Zealand providers potentially be far worse off than the current status quo situation. I repeat for the member: if the member wants to think about tax policy that is going to make New Zealanders better off, she should consider taking the advice of the Minister of Finance and ditching a tax cut for the highest-earning New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221225aa7d5254c25ad77991e3f8e5e9e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Who does she blame for yesterday\u2019s KiwiSaver tax debacle: the Minister of Revenue for proposing it, the Minister of Finance for encouraging it, or herself for leading the Cabinet that agreed to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73fa0c84e344bb087ade9ffa7a1fcf6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, Inland Revenue, throughout its history, will look at proposals to be able to refine and improve the tax system. Where there is good public policy to make consistent the tax system, the Government will look at that. In this case, that particular policy was not appreciated by those that it was designed to help, and ran the risk, because of the way it was being interpreted, of undermining the KiwiSaver system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2dbcfa8fd3d4646be66d0b24a77b518\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: When will that Prime Minister seek to ever make anyone responsible for their failures in her Government, including the cost of living payment being paid out to ineligible people, and a new tax on KiwiSaver that went to wipe a hundred billion dollars of New Zealanders\u2019 savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297459caafa8e4a5eaa6bc0d714a82580\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I stand by the record of the Government in making sure that we got New Zealanders through COVID; that we have an unemployment rate of 3.3 percent, one of the lowest in our history; and we have one of the lowest levels of public debt in the world. This Government is standing alongside New Zealanders. Today, New Zealanders will get the second tranche of the cost of living payment, for those earning less than $70,000 a year. The member used to think it was important to look after those people. She doesn\u2019t want to do anything in that direction; she wants to cut taxes for the highest-income earners. We are the ones who have stepped up to support low and middle income earners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e01371a6fb884757802718a242b412cc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00228cc10b4ac1354082ab7982d0bc047c37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cc10b4ac1354082ab7982d0bc047c37\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb826dc927994d84ad8d1173a0310274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb826dc927994d84ad8d1173a0310274\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The ANZ New Zealand Business Outlook for August was released yesterday, and it showed that business confidence had recovered somewhat while firms\u2019 own confidence in their activity had also risen. Nevertheless, sentiment does remain subdued amidst what are very challenging conditions for businesses as they deal with high inflation and ongoing supply constraints. While economic growth is forecast to slow this year, the resilience of the New Zealand economy and our strong fiscal position means that we are in a good position to support New Zealanders to deal with these challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae47efc951543a0993f2324c2da69d6\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What did the report have to say about business activity and its impact on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e076e3c21cf4461ad46cf6e8db483b7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: General activity indicators including hiring and investment intentions also lifted, which ANZ noted was good news. ANZ said there was a mood lift that was evident among manufacturers, agriculture, and services firms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af0d52aeca104f049d77c733f23f4b8c\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on business investing in the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334660a705994a43b5b32814ac0801c8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The overseas merchandise trade figures show businesses are investing to improve the country\u2019s productivity and support our recovery. Last month, Statistics New Zealand reported that imports of mechanical machinery and equipment rose 19 percent, to $1 billion, in July. On an annual basis, imports of mechanical machinery and equipment rose 26 percent, to $11 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278d05256eaf44e2bad65379e989596a1\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d0acb10ea941be86588b7c6525a4de\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: CoreLogic\u2019s House Price Index, which measures changes to property values, declined 1.8 percent in August, compared with a 0.9 percent drop in July. For the quarter, prices fell by 3.5 percent. CoreLogic is expecting further declines in prices, but they noted that credit arrears remain low as a strong labour market with low unemployment is supporting households with their mortgage repayments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221276879eb9d4564b979c7d4c9928298\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adbbf6e911eb41cf9464895f34191431\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is not alone in feeling the effects of global inflation trends. The EU has reported that inflation rose 9.1 percent in August, compared with 8.9 percent in the previous month. In the UK, there are forecasts for inflation that range between 13 and 22 percent for the year. Nevertheless, in New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219d524e3507d4f3c8a617cf42fa5be75\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Are we short of gas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562ad5517a72402aa9fec19bc9fa5e84\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that member\u2019s not. Nevertheless, in New Zealand, wages are outstripping inflation and most economists are forecasting that inflation has now peaked, although it will remain elevated for some time at levels above what we have recently experienced. That is why the Government continues to support New Zealanders, including low and middle income New Zealanders, through the cost of living payment that we\u2019ll pay out for the second time today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aef99390c4c843f2a342049e81c7e62a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022096f4108208a431bbeb96553a9240429\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096f4108208a431bbeb96553a9240429\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How many KiwiBuild houses were built in July 2022, if any, and was this more or fewer than the number of KiwiBuild houses built in June 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa2d0a866966476b90e7c2a96c9270c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa2d0a866966476b90e7c2a96c9270c8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Six KiwiBuild homes were completed in June 2022. Early indications from our development partners showed that a further 10 homes were completed in July. As the Government underwrite was a tool designed to sustain housing construction during a cooling market, I\u2019m not surprised by these low numbers. I note the build pipeline for homes in Government-backed developments is expected to increase in coming months, and we\u2019ve received significant interest in the scheme from developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deffaef1bcac41c0aab905fb874aadf6\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement \u201CI note that January is always the quietest month in the building sector.\u201D, and, if so, how does she reconcile that with the Housing Dashboard stating that zero new KiwiBuild homes were built in both June and July?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f522283033e4902a5e6cfb457c9d346\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is incorrect to say the Housing Dashboard says that zero homes were completed in KiwiBuild in June. The Housing Dashboard is, of course, updated on the last Wednesday of every month, and it was yesterday, and what the member will see is that there were six KiwiBuild homes that were delivered in June. Public housing numbers are updated when they\u2019re triggered by code compliance certificates being issued. KiwiBuild numbers are updated when developers report completion because there\u2019s not an automatic trigger, so there sometimes can be a one- or two-month lag in those figures coming through. But, as I said, early indicators from the development community is July will deliver 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bcb317a36aa44b88e1476234f05858f\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What interest has been received recently in the Government\u2019s underwrite scheme KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274b776fcdf842a8980fc0bd02d1df13\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In the context of the current headwinds being experienced in the housing market, we\u2019ve received significant interest from developers in recent months. I\u2019m advised that in the last month alone, the Government has received 40 proposals to the scheme. To put this into perspective, there have been 29 proposals put in the previous two years. Given the significant interest from experienced housing developers and our changes to the scheme\u2019s settings for Government-backed developers, I expect momentum to increase in the next six to 12 months. We\u2019ve already seen this taking place with KiwiBuild homes under construction as at July 2022 being 1,349, which is an over 10 percent increase to the 1,223 homes at the end of June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef29521a9ac44c848467e3f78832ed81\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CKiwiBuild hasn\u2019t delivered the numbers we initially set out to do\u201D, and does she believe that six homes is an acceptable number of new KiwiBuild homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cadb1c4bbb264f1bb90aab9fd08c590b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes. And in answer to the second part of the question, as I\u2019ve explained to the member, what we are seeing is that KiwiBuild was not a tool that was going to be of significant utility during a heated housing market. If we look back over the last 18 months to two years, when you\u2019d expect those developments to be signed up to KiwiBuild, developers simply did not need that tool in a hot market. Twenty-nine proposals were received over the last two years combined. As I have outlined in an answer to an earlier question, in the last month alone we have received 40 proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a94c6b9aea6460b8e8709ee1d304d6b\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Is she going to borrow the big zeros from Waka Kotahi\u2019s Road to Zero advertisement to advertise KiwiBuild\u2019s progress when the Housing Dashboard still shows that there are zero homes built in July?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8aaed7d83db4aa1a8761c419ddc8865\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The member should listen to the answers that are given in the House\u2014I imagine she just had to amend that answer from the one she had written on her page. As I said, early indicators from developers are that there are around 10 homes that are delivered in July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a882dbc8485441594a92969e9afa249\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00220a31c8613eb6475398b61c6e2c190dfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a31c8613eb6475398b61c6e2c190dfe\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What action is the Government taking to support access to cheaper, cleaner energy for people in public and M\u0101ori housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002281f0cdc20c8148e7a4166a73b05dd435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281f0cdc20c8148e7a4166a73b05dd435\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is rolling out 16 small-scale solar projects across New Zealand to support more households to access clean, affordable, locally generated electricity. Through the third round of the M\u0101ori Housing Renewable Energy Fund, 150 M\u0101ori households will directly benefit from improved energy affordability. Even more households will benefit through energy sharing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f74a495f8f21447d8d033db355054e55\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How will this help recipients reduce their energy bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228580c7f59565439fb0f288715b2afa2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: It will vary based on the household, but I\u2019m advised recipients should get estimated savings annually of between $700 and $850 per household. Projects from earlier funding rounds are reporting that installing equipment like solar panels and household batteries has made a huge difference to wh\u0101nau struggling with their power bills. Some have had their power bills drop by 30 to 50 percent, including some recipients saving over $1,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6363e44da04a72b1263d87a1450f99\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government selected these 16 solar projects for funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89bb72f42d344b7990f98378db317ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Round three focuses on projects that are more innovative or in areas not well represented by projects that have already received funding in earlier rounds. There is approximately $3 million available for smaller-scale projects that should support at least four houses, with the remaining $5 million for larger-scale projects. This reflects the growing ambition that M\u0101ori organisations have for the role of renewable energy in their communities. Successful applications for the larger-scale projects are expected to be announced in early 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276288b0b06c0497486b96ca49e38426c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Where are these projects happening?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022473e9845c334410c9616b771f4bd40d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: These projects are spread across the country, reaching communities that don\u2019t always see investment. There are seven projects in Northland, three in Waikato, one in Auckland, one in the Bay of Plenty, one in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, one in Whanganui, one in Masterton, and one in Motueka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223c1c14252a84e1aa4560c1b8bbb52b3\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give an example of how communities are benefiting from this funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451a3739d7804c2aab9c14f625a963f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: This funding round committed $400,000 to Mangatawa Papamoa Blocks Incorporation for a solar array and community battery for the Bay of Plenty. This solar smart grid across 35 homes in a papak\u0101inga will feed into a community battery. This will enable energy sharing across houses, improving the community\u2019s resilience and independence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002254c968b136d44fa7b5da575577341270\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad6dde2e2d7f49929df3826ef6486c36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad6dde2e2d7f49929df3826ef6486c36\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: Was he correct when he said of the KiwiSaver tax back-down that it was the decision of \u201C[him]self and the Minister of Finance, as was the decision to put them in in the first place\u201D, and what other potential tax changes, if any, are officials currently working on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002262109d5448bd40f1b0f932aa86e32317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262109d5448bd40f1b0f932aa86e32317\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The assertion in the member\u2019s question is incorrect. I did not refer to decisions around the standardisation of GST treatment of managed funds as a KiwiSaver tax back-down. IRD, as stewards of the tax system, continually monitors for improvements, as they did under the National Government. Inland Revenue\u2019s work programme is currently available on Inland Revenue\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282531a134a34d069de6e2021481242b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Cabinet paper proposing changes to the tax treatment of KiwiSaver fees a joint paper between the Minister of Revenue and Minister of Finance, and what specific involvement did the Minister of Finance have in the development of the KiwiSaver tax proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265b75ee66a944943bb05a5d0b88c944b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, no, the paper was in my name. In respect of the second question, obviously, the Minister of Finance was involved in the Cabinet decision, as were all Cabinet Ministers, and, as the member should be well aware, having worked for the Rt Hon Bill English, the Minister of Finance is involved in policy discussions and decisions on tax matters, as he is on numerous other policy areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f659df9a474de5a5ae960fb009504d\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: When he was asked yesterday if he thought residential property is treated unfairly from a tax perspective, and he said, \u201Cthey\u2019d be right on that, but we haven\u2019t got that fixed yet\u201D, what was the fix he had in mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f375521347c49f3ae5e48e328372481\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t recall the context of either the question or the statement that\u2019s been put to me, but in respect of the assertion earlier in a question that was put to the Prime Minister by the member, when she asserted that I have Inland Revenue, with a six-person unit, working on a capital gains tax, that\u2019s just plainly wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf1bf6927274467ad5ee0112f9c047b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he issue a press release about the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2022-23, Platform Economy, and Remedial Matters) Bill without any reference to the KiwiSaver provisions contained in it, which was set to bring in more tax revenue than all the other proposals combined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022904ce142ceb546929c1df08e014bc958\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I didn\u2019t expect it was to be as contentious as the proposals to charge GST on Airbnb and Uber share services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd973ff925e4112ad1a192a8eb68298\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: When he said yesterday of his proposed KiwiSaver tax, \u201CWe didn\u2019t think it would be an issue.\u201D, did he consider that he is, perhaps, out of touch with the wishes of New Zealanders, who believe wiping $100 billion from their KiwiSaver savings is a bit of an issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0250d1812e48eeb9139b79c9541878\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was never a tax on KiwiSaver, despite the misrepresentations that have been made. I would quote from today\u2019s National Business Review, quoting from a PricewaterhouseCoopers tax partner, who said, \u201CThe application of GST to fund management services was a mess and needed sorting, with a wide range of varying treatments by providers. Some were covered by informal agreements made by IRD 20 years ago, while many of the newer or boutique fund managers were simply accepting full GST. That leads to some distortions and complexity.\u201D That said, it was obvious that we lost that in the first day because of an orchestrated campaign led by the Financial Services Council. Sometimes, you know you can\u2019t win and it\u2019s best to retreat early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ba8bde44ca46ac9385d22b9fa148da\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has he asked his Cabinet colleagues whether, following the KiwiSaver tax debacle, they have reflected on James K Baxter\u2019s words in his poem, \u201CThe Bay\u201D,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHow many roads we take that lead to Nowhere,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe alley overgrown, no meaning now but loss?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78cd8d25e7641fea58749dbaeb2be23\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as the Minister is responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585961f2807e42cea987b78252c59403\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would say the better saying would be,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got to know when to hold \u2018em\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EKnow when to fold \u2018em.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cac4e81b9d4f4ea599652411a2eff2a7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f842e28698aa49e9a7374ec463bcbcc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f842e28698aa49e9a7374ec463bcbcc3\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What is the significance of Conservation Week 2022, and what does it aim to achieve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002219c9ecc337c54ab8963f42edc01ea52a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c9ecc337c54ab8963f42edc01ea52a\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Meitaki e te Vaa Tuatua. Next week, we mark Conservation Week, which is our opportunity each year to increase awareness of, and connection with, our natural world. Every year, thousands of New Zealanders roll up their sleeves and get involved in conservation activities at home or attend one of the many events across the country. Engaging with nature benefits our environment and also ourselves: Ka ora te whenua, ka ora te tangata. When the land is well, the people are well; and when Papat\u016B\u0101nuku thrives, we all thrive. This Conservation Week, I encourage all members of this House to get out into our backyard, roll up their sleeves, and support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226036e34dc963474abe866f51e0e3e3f6\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What is this year\u2019s theme for Conservation Week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288034af0c4c4739b0e1c53698cd2528\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: This year marks 53 years of Conservation Week, with the theme \u201CTake a moment to act for nature\u2014e mahi m\u014D te taiao\u201D. The campaign asks people to make a connection between their wellbeing and our environment as simple acts for nature can be beneficial to both themselves and the environment. This was something we all realised during COVID-19 lockdowns and this campaign aims to ensure we don\u2019t forget that special connection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94d2adf7da945af93e92c6b04913c7d\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What events can people participate in to mark Conservation Week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9c7e52609240fe8a7eb89a30239920\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of things people can do to celebrate Conservation Week, such as organise a community rubbish clean-up, volunteer for a conservation-based organisation, or do something at home like plant a native tree or get involved in a local trapping programme. I will be celebrating this week by visiting the Wildlife Hospital in Dunedin, checking out the Isaac Conservation and Wildlife Trust captive breeding programme in Christchurch, as well as spending a day with our conservation team in the Abel Tasman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229728be173e334d2db953cb0918e91d1c\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What have been some of the significant conservation achievements in recent years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229caa96b58e73442a9a16b494c6e9b924\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has prioritised conservation as part of our build back better agenda across the country. This has seen us make good progress in protecting our environment and endangered species. The member will be pleased to know that as part of Jobs for Nature there has been 51 employment opportunities created as part of the Tucker Beach reserve project in Queenstown, resulting in over 10,000 riparian plants being planted, 18 hectares of weed control, and two kilometres of new fencing being constructed as of June 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9a98c3bc0d4f929bd37f6bb55dbb9e\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What recent progress has been made to protect endangered birds such as k\u0101k\u0101p\u014D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b90b3bece9294abd851bae6e512a0b23\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: We are making strong progress to restore the population of k\u0101k\u0101p\u014D, with numbers increasing by nearly a third from 197 to 252. As the second-biggest breeding season on record, this is the start of a new era for k\u0101k\u0101p\u014D conservation. However, we cannot take our eye off the ball. We must continue the important work to protect this critically endangered taonga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bd76cc4d9b4465c9dceef91c5e7f15e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022b826801cb08142fab74d3ca1e17f5c77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b826801cb08142fab74d3ca1e17f5c77\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Is he concerned that the estimated 10,000 resource consents necessary for farmers to comply with intensive winter grazing standards will not be issued by the 1 November deadline, and how many farms are currently compliant with winter grazing standards across the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228c11ef5d87e740bc89e3654f2ef32681\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c11ef5d87e740bc89e3654f2ef32681\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Intensive winter grazing releases sediment to waterways. At a 15-degree slope, I\u2019m advised that twice as much sediment is lost as at 10 degrees, and at a 20-degree slope, the amount of sediment lost is 300 percent. Under the intensive winter grazing regulations, intensive winter grazing is a permitted activity on slopes up to 10 percent. Ministry for Primary Industries modelling at the time of that showed that a very small percentage of fodder crops are on slopes of more than 10 percent. I\u2019m advised the 10,000 number referred to by the member is based on an aggregate of theoretical maximum amounts of intensive winter grazing, and that that has not been verified on the ground and is likely to be on the high side. None the less, I have asked my officials to look into the expected number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38fbd08cb5646cdb12dbd6ce8d2cb5b\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Minister say to farmers shelling out an estimated $1,500 to $10,000 for a resource consent with no guarantee that it will arrive in time to sow their winter crops?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea9539968f646c1bbe2898d281e65f1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not in a position to give advice to farmers as to how to manage those costs, except to say that when a resource consent is applied for and granted, it is generally a multi-year consent, so those costs are spread over a long time. In respect of the time period, this has been coming for some years. In respect of the people that do have intensive winter grazing that is on slopes of greater than 10 degrees or that are concerned that they might infringe the rules, they should contact their regional council early. In fact, the rules don\u2019t apply to the planting of crops; they apply to the grazing of them, which will generally be from the onset of winter next year. But I would encourage people to contact their councils earlier so that there are no untoward surprises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849d4e3fdedc4b7e8e6caf4fb28e2933\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement made in relation to extending the 1 November deadline, \u201CI\u2019m not convinced that that is necessary, but I will consider it.\u201D; if so, has he considered it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224baca6f86f89487283839654821f4fb8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by that quote and I am considering it. I do think it\u2019s important that we do have some constraint on poor intensive winter grazing process and we do that through the Resource Management Act. The ways in which I am considering it include the verification of the number of consents that the member has referred to and consideration, if that number is too high\u2014and it may not be, but if it was\u2014how we could address the worst end of the problem. We are making progress on this issue as a country, as a consequence of both central government, local government, and farmer action, but that doesn\u2019t mean to say that we should turn our back on the worst, most risky practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac93b0267f94ce5babc5f233c20f03b\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: So will the Minister delay the deadline for intensive winter grazing compliance to ease the burden on overstretched regional councils and allow farmers to get their crops in the ground ready for next winter; if not, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226106486df6c64afa8b5644ff6bd678e5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m advised that this will not overwhelm regional councils, even if we were to proceed as the current law says. I\u2019m also advised that, in respect of some applications for resource consent which have already been made, some have been turned around by councils in a matter of days; it\u2019s a non-notified application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4ea79fc521c44419232f1251b3a0c8a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00223d5f81e6f8124ddf846fd02494cdc7d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d5f81e6f8124ddf846fd02494cdc7d3\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does she stand by all her statements and actions on youth justice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00221e95b2e7ff744d7db8a4a2fce9a95f80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e95b2e7ff744d7db8a4a2fce9a95f80\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022953def03fff541a0bf6b9490999b827e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she dispute that there has been a 500 percent increase in ram raids since 2018 on radio yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222db151c3d0d94003b21105d4317c7d01\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Because I am advised that the most recent full years of data available is that in 2018, there were 84 incidents and in 2021, there were 303 incidents\u2014an increase of 260 percent in that period. Regardless of the number, I think we can all collectively agree that an increase in this particular type of youth offending is dissatisfactory to all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a34faab8f4343869aaefc68fccba57d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the Hamilton mum who believes kids, including her son, are being exploited by organised criminals: \u201CIt\u2019s insane to think about it, but look at what\u2019s going on \u2026 14-year-olds ram-raiding, absolutely giving no Fs about anyone.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb8e9fdae24423e835b0f014b8a9de2\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: To that mother, I would say that we collectively are all concerned about the increase in activity in youth ram-raid offending, in particular. While over the past 10 years we have seen a steady decrease in youth offending, we have seen a particular spike in a couple of areas\u2014both Auckland\u2014and in particular types of crime, like youth ram raids. So to that mother, I would say, \u201CThis Government takes these things seriously.\u201D We have seen, since 2017, 268 prosecutions for a range of ram-raid - related offending and 324 youth referrals. We will continue to ensure that the policy settings are correct to combat these types of rises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239b4e75d177941a487da326b82b1825b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think the youth justice system is sending a clear and effective message about community concerns over youth crime, when just sentences to youth justice residences declined by 50 percent while ram raids have increased over 500 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef9e2125f1f4a8c80c5993809e390aa\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: To the statement that I just said prior, overall, there has been a decrease in youth criminal offending over the past 10 years. We\u2019ve seen that nationwide, and what we have seen is a sharp increase in this particular offending, which is unsatisfactory. As I just stated, there have been 768 prosecutions for a range of ram-raid - related offences and 324 youth referrals over the past couple of years. These are serious offences and we can see that the police, and indeed the other parts of the system, are taking this seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f800af231d44139ce34bd04f429fb8\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government believe serious and persistent youth offenders currently face sufficient consequences for the damage they inflict on victims and their communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8fc63f57fb4830a3395accc2987207\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I think there are a range of issues that we, as a Government, need to consider in terms of ensuring that the policy settings are ongoing and constantly fit for purpose. On this side of the House, this is something that we are working very, I guess, closely on and expect to have some announcements in the next period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238615369200b429489d0923692eab79c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education (School Operations)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u002214562db177734968818556902cdcff44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214562db177734968818556902cdcff44\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (School Operations): How is the Government supporting young Kiwis to lift their literacy and reading skills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022626238ac1f8943ff9fb50d9db48ff4bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022626238ac1f8943ff9fb50d9db48ff4bb\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education (School Operations)):\u003C/span\u003E The investment the Government has made into evidence-based and community-led projects is delivering positive results evidenced in the latest evaluation from the Reading Together programme, that supports parents and wh\u0101nau to encourage strong literacy at home. An example in the Samoan community evaluation showed a positive change in reading habits for families, with almost 90 percent of parents feeling more confident in helping their children learn to read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9597e103a04cfcb200515ef0084e22\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What are other examples of community-led literacy programmes that are delivering results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229255c047a48940d5b4ec39cce6ee9d97\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Taonga m\u014D ng\u0101 Tamariki is an intergenerational wh\u0101nau reading and literacy programme for tamariki who have wh\u0101nau in the care and management of Corrections. The programme has a positive impact by providing books and resources for children and parents, with over 90 percent of participants reporting enhanced knowledge and skills to constructively support their children\u2019s enjoyment of reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251071eadf9bd493982f461d65fa73d9c\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What work is under way to support kids starting out at school to get the best start to early literacy learning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2759412d8e4070a2b9925f8dc0c5ad\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Through our Better Start Literacy Approach, all new entrant and year 1 teachers have access to training in an integrated approach to developing critical writing and reading skills in the first year of learning. This approach is steeped in the best of international and domestic research developed by the University of Canterbury over the last 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241cf1a25f76c4a69a17d1dd5d177691a\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: How do these programmes fit into the Government\u2019s wider strategy for literacy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b180ecd44d4ccc8f6a56f327d72d29\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We have released our literacy strategy, which is ensuring solutions are customised to our kids\u2019 needs rather than a one-size-fits-all cookie cutter approach. We\u2019re ensuring assessment is fit for purpose so that kids are assessed as individuals and supports are tailored to the learner, as well as providing clarity for teachers about what they need to teach and when.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350a357172ef4ea58bec764f79349e12\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: How has research and evidence driven the Government\u2019s strategy to lift literacy achievement for Kiwi kids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90785ca1ff8463a8e4f4103b11407f9\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Our strategy is evidence based and draws on domestic and international best practice and expert advice. It also caters to the New Zealand context and ensures that we place the learner at the centre and leave nothing to chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022141ba044983d4fa19bb83966f8433e23\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002288a5a337433b42eca229244cf81603e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288a5a337433b42eca229244cf81603e3\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does she agree with Gore District Council Mayor Tracy Hicks, who said, \u201CThe Government appears impermeable to seriously entertaining an alternative model for the Three Waters reform\u201D, and does she believe she has adequately addressed the concerns of local government during Three Waters reform?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002298bf2d2079ed4cc7970ffbba76536365\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298bf2d2079ed4cc7970ffbba76536365\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E No and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f3325e184d41fbb97e02d69b5f0c0c\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that so many councils have called for stormwater infrastructure to be exempted or delayed from integration into her mega entities, and what does it say about her reforms that, years in, there isn\u2019t even consensus over if it\u2019s three waters or two waters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db32b217754a4e42a41b0d138663df16\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: We established a stormwater technical working group with experts and representation from the sector to deliberate over these very important issues, and we have taken on board their recommendations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8839e901df4122bb2bc1ea6832b0f8\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Hayden Turoa, who said that \u201CCentral Government continue to misunderstand, opting for models that pitch community and hap\u016B against each other\u201D, and is she concerned that hap\u016B, councils, and communities feel the Government is turning them against each other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb428b4fadc484f8de904a73f3c5f5b\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m mindful that there are a range of views about the effectiveness of councils working with hap\u016B and mana whenua in this area. Those range of views are taken on board and adopted within the governance model to ensure that councils and mana whenua can work constructively together around Te Mana o te Wai aspirations. That will be an overall improvement to the current system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768fc8f223ea40abb064b1c287aa6f81\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that many mayors, including Timaru mayor Nigel Bowen, have said that instead of helping their communities, these reforms will actively, and I quote, \u201Chinder them\u201D, and why are so many councils still saying they\u2019re better off without her reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c5ba9c84f9473d8d80d2b0ff5a2c2a\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Again, there are a range of views amongst mayors and leaders at councils. Take, for example, the Mayor of Ruapehu, Don Cameron, who said, \u201CReform is essential, where our debt attributed to three waters will be paid back by the [water services entity] and our further work will be properly prioritised and carried out in a timely manner [with no] cost to council,\u201D\u2014and that\u2019s in favour of the reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209562bf478494f69b3216cac00f1deeb\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Can she name a single council previously opposed to Labour\u2019s three waters proposal that supports it because of the changes she\u2019s made, and, if not, what does that say about those changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc639d5423124a658a9aee59d25e8ca0\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly don\u2019t want to misrepresent the views of councils who have unilaterally supported the need and case for change. How that\u2019s achieved\u2014yes, there are differing views. However, throughout this whole process, we have taken on board, through a range of mechanisms and engagement, those views from councils, and adopted them within the governance representation aspects of the changes being forwarded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228616cba116ae4fcaa9ebbbacfd07c6c9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Courts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u002218b564b397f34963b4d18085cbf3d9a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218b564b397f34963b4d18085cbf3d9a3\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Courts: What is the Government doing to ease the pressure on the coronial system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef9963d6e1074bd5ae8f4c31b0d00f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef9963d6e1074bd5ae8f4c31b0d00f14\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E On Wednesday night, I presented the first reading of the Coroners Amendment Bill. This bill will address the coronial backlog in a number of ways. Significantly, it will establish a new judicial position called associate coroner to reduce the coroners\u2019 workload by doing the more administrative, straightforward functions of the coroner. The introduction of this bill, with cross-party support, amends the Coroners Act to give piece of mind to our grieving families who have had loved ones in the coronial system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368002a3da3c446cb77051c14b1d5183\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What else does the bill do to address the pressure on coroners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022671f4db5ab7a45c68a1b3ddd27d391de\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Additionally, this bill will also allow the cause of death to be recorded as unascertained natural causes, when the coroner has concluded that the death is from a natural cause and no further investigation is necessary. And it will provide coroners the sole discretion to decide whether a coronial inquiry should also include an inquest, while maintaining the requirement to consult interested parties and consider their views. These amendments will all help to ease the pressure and reduce the backlog in our coronial system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976c9c0faf174f7882248f54c2275a69\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government made further investment to alleviate pressure on coroners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022682a3d63807f4a46a95584a72fdede94\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. In addition, Budget 2022 delivered operating funding of $28.5 million over four years and $1.6 million of capital funding to help reduce the coronial caseload. This will also allow the appointment of four new permanent coroners and support staff. We know more must be done to improve access to justice for families and wh\u0101nau, and it is why we as a Government have committed also to a wider, longer-term review of the coronial system as announced earlier in the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022308e3043ea2547cf8dbd9e0e9031ae9f\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government taken nearly five years, during which time the average number of active cases at the Coroners Court has exploded to over 6,000, to introduce a bill that is described by the departmental disclosure statement as having no, or only minor, impacts, such that the regulatory impact statement was not even worth producing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d51e17182334fa180d4dd527975a27f\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with the member. What I will say, though, is members have to be mindful the judiciary lead this. Coroners are members of the judiciary, and we have to respect their independence in the way that they conduct the roles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ecb8e8f3fd4fd48d712b8c1160be9a\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Who will be consulted in this longer-term review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ea03a67c6540b3b4d0b8f205f32758\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: I indicated at the courts Estimates hearing this year of the need to progress a wider long-term review of the coronial system. It\u2019s my expectation that the review will involve agencies such as the police, judiciary, pathologists, and Ministry of Health, though our focus will remain on keeping our wh\u0101nau at the centre, and those who have lost a loved one at the heart of our engagement in everything we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255870ef8598843ec82f9aa85ea7beff5\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What role, if any, do cultural practices play in these amendments to the work of coroners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9d2b5a05fb4bf2889ff22c32777936\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge the critical importance of cultural practices relating to death, particularly for those in our Pacific, ethnic, and faith communities. It\u2019s my expectation that any engagement will also seek to consider and uphold these cultural and faith views. For that reason, this bill complements other work being led by the Ministry of Justice to improve the coronial system, including a project to better integrate culture and tikanga M\u0101ori into coronial processes, and by appointing clinical advisers to assist coroners with this cultural component. The combination of all of this will help reduce the wait time grieving families are experiencing in our coronial system, and I do want to emphasise this is a significant part\u2014the cultural intelligence in this work is part of something that that other side doesn\u2019t understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225e8c64e869ec41fab862136f991041e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e8c64e869ec41fab862136f991041e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ccfadd34f54489bb0aa266b08860701\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ec5c5fb02f643908fd746fa50717587\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000212\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 August on the Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00226e029d548e1a41cc88f40bd891543469\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e029d548e1a41cc88f40bd891543469\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill. The Standing Orders provide for 11 hours of debate on the Estimates. There is one hour, six minutes remaining in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe Business Committee has determined that the debate will end at the conclusion of the debate with Minister of Education. The Business Committee has determined to organise the debate by portfolio, so there will no sector-specific debates. All Votes are available for debate, but only specific Ministers will be available each day to speak to the indicated portfolios only. The Government has indicated that the Minister of Education will be available today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EEach debate will be led by a call from the chairperson or a member of the committee that considered the Estimates most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolio. Once this debate expires, questions will be put that the Votes stand part of the schedules and on the provisions of Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe time for the debate has been allocated to parties on a proportional basis, and may be taken as parties see fit during the debate. The New Zealand Labour Party has 20 minutes remaining, so I caution members of the other side, if you want questions to be answered, you might want to ask all your questions at the same time\u2014well, actually, it is up to you, but just know that there are only 20 minutes for the Minister to respond to your questions. The New Zealand National Party has 37 minutes remaining. The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has six minutes remaining. ACT New Zealand has 11 minutes remaining. Te Paati M\u0101ori has eight minutes remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe Estimates debate should be relevant to the Government\u2019s current spending plans, as contained in the Estimates of Appropriations. A compendium of the reports of select committees on the Votes is available on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe question being debated is that the Votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriation 2022/23 stand part of the schedules. Members, we have the Minister of Education to speak to the portfolio. I call on the chair of the committee, Marja Lubeck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d17a82d9f2d479190db90c125407625\u0022\u003EEducation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea2dffe2c59f4bdbb1125cce3b5b6beb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea2dffe2c59f4bdbb1125cce3b5b6beb\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Chairperson of the Education and Workforce Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call as the chair of the Education and Workforce Committee. Our select committee met on 22 June and 27 July to consider Vote Education, Vote Education Review Office, and Vote Tertiary Education. We heard evidence from the Minister of Education, the Ministry of Education, the Education Review Office, and the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. We also received advice from the Office of the Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBudget 2022 is seeking $20.23 billion for these three Votes. This compares with the estimated $20.04 billion that was spent in 2021-2022. Of this funding, $16.172 billion is for Vote Education, which funds more than 2,400 schools and more than 5,000 early learning providers. Four billion dollars is for Vote Tertiary Education, which provides funding for tertiary education providers, including eight universities, three w\u0101nanga, and Te P\u016Bkenga and its 16 subsidiary companies\u2014former Institutes of Technology and Polytechnics. Thirty-eight million dollars is for Vote Education Review Office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOver the past five years, we\u2019ve seen significant increases both in education spending and in the number of public servants supporting the portfolio. Our committee has scrutinised these trends and asked about the causes of, and outcomes from, these increases. We\u2019ve heard there are a number of causes of the increased spending, including more learners in the early childhood and tertiary sectors and overall demographic changes. We\u2019ve also heard that the additional people hired by the Ministry of Education are front-line staff, such as educational psychologists and speech and language therapists; that the increase in staff is causing observable benefits, such as decreased wait times for the Ongoing Resourcing Scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on three areas that the committee, in particular, paid attention to in our review, which are the introduction of the equity index, student attendance, and the reform of vocational education. Budget 2022 is seeking $292.5 million for the equity index, which will replace the school decile system in 2023. The equity index is intended to better allocate funding to schools that need additional resources based on information from Statistics New Zealand to assess the socio-economic characteristics of students and their likely achievement levels. There will be an extra $75 million in funding per year under the new system. Although most schools will receive more funding, about 10 percent of schools may qualify for less. We asked what checks and balances will be in place and heard that, allowing time to adapt, no school will receive less operational funding in 2023 due to the equity index and from 2024 any reduction in funding will be capped at 5 per cent per annum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOur select committee completed an inquiry into school attendance in March 2022. A key recommendation in our report was a target of at least 70 percent of students attending school regularly\u2014that is, 90 percent of the time that a school is open\u2014by 2024; 75 percent by 2026. The Government has adopted this recommendation. Its attendance and engagement strategy is also targeting reductions in the number of students who are moderately absent, missing two or three days a fortnight, and chronically absent, missing more than three days a fortnight. Schools will lead the response to moderate levels of absence, and strategy will see schools receiving more support to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThe committee has devoted a lot of time to Te P\u016Bkenga, which is central to the Government\u2019s reform of vocational education growth. We noted concerns from the Auditor-General and heard that the Minister agreed with these concerns and believed that Te P\u016Bkenga has more work to do. We noted that during the consultation phase of Reform of Vocational Education, the Minister made statements that Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s head office should be modest and nimble and we heard that the Minister stands by those statements. We also asked how a significant deficit that Te P\u016Bkenga was projected to run would be addressed. We heard that while the Minister considers the projected $110 million deficit for 2022 unacceptable, it was better than the projected deficits that would have occurred without the reforms. Both the Minister and, through a separate process, Te P\u016Bkenga itself were confident the final deficit for 2022 would not be as high as $110 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThis being my fourth call in this Estimates debate, I\u2019d like to emphasise this point and acknowledge the new format that we considered these entities within, and, in particular, the increase in ministerial accountability. For many years, Ministers\u2019 participation in this debate would be limited to taking one or two five-minute calls that would address Opposition members\u2019 points infrequently. The Estimates debate has been transformed into 11 hours of parliamentary scrutiny of Ministers in a way that no Minister during previous Governments was ever subject to. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002256cfd3a2550244de8e551c8ca598a262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256cfd3a2550244de8e551c8ca598a262\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Given that we\u2019ve only got 15 minutes left of the Minister\u2019s time, I do hope, in the spirit of democracy, he\u2019ll keep his answers short. I know that he\u2019s always been really good in select committee in making his answers short and to the point and getting straight into it, so I hope that will continue today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to start my questioning around the issue of literacy, because we had a question in the House today from Jan Tinetti around the teaching of literacy. I wanted to get some clarification from the Minister on what the view is going forward, because there\u2019s quite a bit of conjecture out there in the sector about what\u2019s going to happen with the common practice model. So I guess what I want the Minister to answer is: moving forward, will we have more of a structured literacy approach, like the Associate Minister alluded to and actually said on Q\u002BA on Sunday, when prompted, that the evidence showed that this was the best system\u2014actually, her quote was \u201CI haven\u2019t seen any evidence that shows me anything different.\u201D, when asked about structured literacy being the best way to teach children to read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat I want to ask the Minister about is his comments earlier in the year, where he said that some kids learn to read by looking at the pictures and interpreting the words. That suggests a very different approach, which is the three cueing system. What I want to know from the Minister is: are we going to get a hybrid approach where we have a mixture of a structured approach, like structured literacy, together with the three cueing system, which we\u2019ve had in the past, some sort of hybrid, which the comments from the Minister and the Associate Minister suggest, or are we going to have more of a structured literacy approach and get rid of the three cueing system? So I guess the question is: are we getting rid of the three cueing system; is that his intention, or will there be a hybrid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00228adf2b8f55df40379cdabb79e2078364\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228adf2b8f55df40379cdabb79e2078364\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll try and keep my answers as brief as possible. If the member wants to block up a number of questions, and then I\u2019ll try and address them, that might actually help to save some of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut in terms of literacy, my view on literacy is that the Government will get into difficult territory if it starts to dictate to teachers how they should teach. The New Zealand Curriculum sets out what we expect young people to be learning when it comes to literacy and numeracy. The exact methods that teachers use in order to teach are matters of professional judgment for the teachers. There are different methods, and different methods work better for different children. Reading recovery, for example, has been very successful for some children; we know it doesn\u2019t work for all children. I think that those are matters that teachers should make professional judgments around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the resources supplied to schools, though, because that does have an impact, what the member will see is that the Ministry of Education are refreshing the resources that are available\u2014for example, the Ready to Read series has been refreshed and it includes a combination of whole-language learning and a more phonics-based approach. So I think our role centrally is to provide resources to schools. It\u2019s teachers\u2019 judgments as to how best to teach individual children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e175a1cf1f404d15854ee8df5bce838c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e175a1cf1f404d15854ee8df5bce838c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Just going back to that, the Associate Minister has been talking about a common practice model. Now the Minister gets up and says \u201CBut no, we don\u2019t want to dictate to teachers what they should do; it\u2019s their professional judgment.\u201D So how does a common practice model fit with that? I hope the Minister will answer that. It\u2019s quite important for the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI wanted to just switch now, I guess, to NCEA learning recognition credits. I don\u2019t want to get into an argument about whether we should have given them or not, because I think that this side of the House disagrees with what happened; that\u2019s beside the point. It\u2019s now happened. I want to ask the Minister: what happens now? We\u2019ve got a cohort of kids who\u2019ve had three years of getting ghost credits or learning recognition credits for learning that they haven\u2019t actually had\u2014they haven\u2019t achieved those credits. So the question is: what is he putting in place at Te P\u016Bkenga? For example, it\u2019ll be mostly those kids, I assume, who are heading into tertiary study at Te P\u016Bkenga; less so the universities, because usually they\u2019ve got a bit more support from their parents. But for the kids who are going into Te P\u016Bkenga, what is the Minister putting in place? What is he advising to be put in place for those kids who\u2019ve had three years of ghost credits, basically, and who haven\u2019t received the learning that they need and are going into tertiary study without all of the learning that they need? That\u2019s one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll carry on because I know he wants me to bank everything up. The other question is around early childhood education. We note in the Budget documents that the Minister did not get the level of funding he wanted to put into pay parity for early childhood teachers. Now, the Minister will remember speaking to me at Estimates where I asked him\u2014and at that point in time, we didn\u2019t know that he didn\u2019t quite get as much as he wanted, but he\u2019s forged ahead with it anyway. At that point in time, I said that the amount of money that\u2019s been put into pay parity is not enough for the sector so the costs are going to have to be made up somewhere else, either in quality or in increasing fees. And the Minister at that point said, \u201CFees may be increased but those centres are perfectly capable of absorbing it in their profits.\u201D And when I asked him about those profits he said, \u201CWell, anecdotally, I know get profits.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMy question now is to the Minister: knowing now that you didn\u2019t get everything that you wanted in your Budget bid, are you expecting fees to go up to cover that because you didn\u2019t quite get what you wanted? And, secondly, why is it that last week another survey has gone out to the sector to ask for data from them around their teaching workforce and the amount of time they\u2019ve taught for and how much they\u2019re remunerated? Because, surely, that information would have been relevant before the Budget bid? And does the fact that that\u2019s happening again suggest that the data that they were relying on was faulty and not complete? And what will happen if the data that he gets back now shows that it is significantly underfunded and lots of small centres will end up either having to close or massively hike their fees or increase their class sizes? I\u2019ll leave it at that. I think that\u2019s three questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002272e4b769083a45b39cb61eb03b68d377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e4b769083a45b39cb61eb03b68d377\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister, I just want to inform the Minister that the National Party has allowed five of their minutes to be transferred over to you, Minister, in order to allow you to answer more of their questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00227f4276afc5de4e5183adae2b4165cf69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f4276afc5de4e5183adae2b4165cf69\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the generosity of the Opposition for that. If I can perhaps work back through those questions, I\u2019ll start with pay parity in early learning. Obviously, when the Budget process has been put together, I have been asking for as much funding as I can possibly get to get to pay parity as fast as we possibly can. In every Budget round, I have not been able to get enough money to do that, but we\u2019ve continued to make progress. So what we actually offer to the sector after each Budget is very much dependent on the quantum of funding that we get. Next Budget, I expect that there\u2019ll be another instalment of additional funding for pay parity, and I hope we can make more progress there. It is quite a complex scenario that we\u2019re dealing with because every early learning service has a slightly different operating model, and know that the data that central government holds on the different operating models of early learning services is patchy in places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESome of the bigger providers have been very good at supplying data. Some of the bigger providers have actually said that the funding rates that we are offering will be sufficient for them because they can manage more of the unders and overs, as there will always be in a situation like this, across their network, whereas smaller providers, including some of the community-based providers, particularly if they employ a high proportion of experienced teachers, will find that more difficult. That is one of the reasons that we are continuing to seek more data so that we can make sure that the forecasting and the modelling is as accurate as possible. It is a difficult area. We have not yet got it 100 percent right in any of the attempts that we\u2019ve had to head towards parity. That is, at least, in part because we\u2019re not the employer and we don\u2019t have the information, so we\u2019ll continue to work with the sector to try and get it as right as possible. But we always must recognise that, ultimately, these are private businesses and they\u2019ll make decisions about their operating models and the service that they provide to their families, based on a whole variety of different factors\u2014Government funding being one of those factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere is another complicating factor in that the kindergarten and primary and secondary school teachers are shortly to be in bargaining and the settlement from that is likely to further complicate the parity picture again. We, as a Government, will be working to make sure that the parity gap doesn\u2019t increase as a result of that. So there will be further decisions to be taken around that at the appropriate time. Of course, we can\u2019t take those decisions until we know what the effect of collective bargaining will be, and, of course, that bargaining is nowhere near the point where we get that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the NCEA, I\u2019d caution the member about using the phrase \u201Cghost credits\u201D and other such phrases that could undermine the credibility of the qualification that young people are leaving our secondary schools with. The learning recognition credits that the Government has used as a result of the COVID-19 disruption is a very similar formula to that used by the National Government, following the Christchurch earthquake, to recognise the disruption to learning that young people experienced in that year. As the Opposition spokesperson for the then Labour Opposition at the time, I was very careful in making sure that we were critiquing the decisions that the Government was taking, but not in a way that was going to undermine the credibility of the qualifications of those students. But I think we need to take great care there. I have been very, very mindful in making decisions about the awarding of learning recognition credits\u2014and they are still learning recognition credits; they\u2019re not bonus credits or anything else. They recognise learning that has taken place. We\u2019ve been very careful to make sure that we\u2019re preserving the credibility of the qualification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI am confident, based on the advice that I have received, that there is a difference between learning that has not taken place and learning that has taken place but has not been able to be assessed. I think that that is an important distinction to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the support that young people are getting out the other end of their NCEA, there are a variety of supports available there. There are some young people who have not had the opportunity, because of COVID-19 disruption, to demonstrate what they can do, and, therefore, attain their NCEA. We have a summer school programme that\u2019s supported by Te Aho o Te Kura Pounamu, the Correspondence School, to make sure they have an opportunity to catch up over summer. We\u2019ve made a change so that if they go back to school for a short period of time next year in order to complete their qualifications because they didn\u2019t get the opportunity to fully complete them this year, they\u2019ll be able to be awarded their qualifications during the year, so they won\u2019t have to wait for another full year before their qualifications are being awarded. So they\u2019ll be able to do that, and, of course, they\u2019ll be supported to do that and resourced to do that, if they want to go back to school, say, for one term, or for however long it is they require to get that support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut in terms of the support provided by the universities, as the member has indicated, I\u2019m confident that the universities are able to support young people, where they need it, to transition into university. In terms of Te P\u016Bkenga\u2014in fact, any vocational education providers\u2014that has been one of the key factors in the development of the unified funding system. It\u2019s been about making sure that we\u2019re recognising the needs of learners as well as the needs of providers. So there are three components to the unified funding system, one of which is the learner component, which is very much designed to ensure that institutions are resourced to provide learners the support that they need, recognising that some learners will need more support than others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00220a5aaecbd9034c63865bb47f6052a6a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a5aaecbd9034c63865bb47f6052a6a1\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to move now to the pilot that\u2019s been done recently for the literacy and numeracy corequisites. The Minister knows that last year, only one-third of those students who participated in the pilot passed the numeracy and literacy corequisite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI understand the second part of the trial was done last term. I want to know, has the Minister seen those results? Were they any better? Can he enlighten the committee? I know that they were due out this week; we have been able to find them. I was wondering if the Minister could tell us what the results have been for term 2 pilot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe question is: what will he do moving forward, given these results are so dire? Is he looking at adjusting the level of the test down for a number of years and ratcheting it up? Or is he looking at a programme of getting those high school students up to standard for numeracy and literacy? And how will he be implementing that? That\u2019s the first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe second question is around the number of unenrolled children\u2014there\u2019s 8,500 unenrolled children and we note that in the latest Budget round, the Attendance Services only got a yearly increase of $1.5 million, which isn\u2019t enough to even start to look at it when you take into account inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThose are the services that help to get these unenrolled kids back to school, so my question to the Minister is: what are we doing about these kids, the 8,500? I think he knows very well that number is probably a lot larger, given that schools have been asked to stop unenrolling students when they get to the 20 days so that they don\u2019t get lost out of the system, but for all intents and purposes, they are actually unenrolled because they\u2019re not showing up at all. What programme is being put in place to get those unenrolled kids back to school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc51b563387545f39aa3937d31145d05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc51b563387545f39aa3937d31145d05\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of literacy and numeracy, it\u2019s a topic that I could spend a lot of time talking about, so I\u2019ll try and keep my answers as brief as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons that we introduced the concept of the literacy and numeracy corequisite was that I was of the view\u2014and it was backed up by the review of the NCEA\u2014that the thresholds around literacy and numeracy in NCEA were insufficient, that young people were gaining NCEA without reassurance that they had the appropriate levels of literacy and numeracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere was a change to the way a young person could achieve NCEA\u2019s literacy and numeracy requirements during the tenure of the last Government. That meant that a broader range of credits were regarded as sufficient to satisfy the literacy and numeracy requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think that the overwhelming feedback we had during the review is that that pendulum had swung too far, and in fact there was insufficient focus on making sure that the very important foundational learning around literacy and numeracy was being appropriately credentialed by the NCEA. That is why we started to move towards something that was more specific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the trialling of that, it is important that we pitch that at the right level, but it shouldn\u2019t be, in my view, adjusted because students aren\u2019t meeting that level. If we determine that the requirements are at a certain level in order to have basic foundation skills in literacy and numeracy and young people are not reaching them, then we need to make sure they reach them; we shouldn\u2019t lower them simply because they are not reaching them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8739f582df34021b87fb007502d0dbd\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: How are you going to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df4a1aa5e78439e99ce62c50d9a6a79\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: And that is the fundamental job of schools. You know, we need schools to be making sure that young people leave with the skills and with the qualifications that they require to be able to thrive in the world outside of school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI\u2019d point out to the member, there\u2019s a lot of politics we could trade about this. The 15-year-olds and 16-year-olds that are being assessed at the moment as potentially, you know\u2014this was the generation that went through primary school with national standards. National standards were supposed to fix this problem; they didn\u2019t. In fact, the problem got worse during that period of time. There\u2019s a lot of politics we could play with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn reality, I don\u2019t think the solution is a political one. I don\u2019t think national standards are to blame for it\u2014I don\u2019t think they fixed it, but I don\u2019t think they are to blame for it. I think the drivers behind our literacy and numeracy problems in New Zealand are many, varied, and complex, and those who aim to have the one magical solution to them are generally providing people with this false promise that will never be realised because there is a lot more that sits underneath that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of unenrolled students and the work of the Attendance Services, I think the Attendance Services have an important role, but what we\u2019ve seen in recent times is that the work of the Attendance Services has moved further away from schools. So, yes, Attendance Services and increasing resources to them is important, but the extra work we\u2019re doing to move resources closer to schools so that they can follow up on non-attendance is also important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Urgent Response Fund and the flow-on from that\u2014the title we gave it just suddenly escapes me, but the continuation of the Urgent Response Fund, which provides up to $10 million a year for the Ministry of Education\u2019s regional offices to provide direct resourcing to schools to deal with issues like attendance, will mean that they can have attendance officers in school, on their school sites, following up, and they can gain extra funding to do that. That\u2019s one of the purposes of the fund. So it is about making sure that we get resources closer to schools to follow that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere are other things that we can do in terms of an across-Government basis to support the attendance challenge. Police, for example, in Auckland ran Operation Attend, where they worked with schools to follow up on non-attendance. It actually had some very positive results. Other Government agencies can play a part here as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5d6a7c3069c476687405a53ada131b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5d6a7c3069c476687405a53ada131b7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Erica Stanford again, I just want to say that the Labour Party has about seven minutes or so left, but that other parties also still have minutes left to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002211d4d11d7a6d4513a6ecffd2e009b885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211d4d11d7a6d4513a6ecffd2e009b885\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E This will be my last question, and it\u2019s just the same question I already asked earlier but the Minister didn\u2019t answer. There is going to be a common practice model for teaching literacy; that\u2019s what the Associate Minister said. And yet, today, you, Minister, got up and said that teachers will be able to use their professional judgment: \u201CWe don\u2019t want to dictate how they teach literacy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo which is it? Will there be a common practice model that dictates how teachers are to teach literacy, or will there not be? Or will it be a situation where we have a common practice model that includes lots of different varying types of approaches to literacy, like the balanced approach, the whole language approach, and structured literacy, and let teachers pick and choose which bits they want? I think this is really important if the Minister could answer that, because it doesn\u2019t quite gel up between what he\u2019s saying and what Jan Tinetti\u2019s saying in terms of the common practice model. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00229e0d1021bc72422f8ec4a96e5518b109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e0d1021bc72422f8ec4a96e5518b109\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a contradiction between what the Minister Jan Tinetti and I are saying. You\u2019re going to have common practice models that can include a wide range of things. That doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019re dictating to teachers how they should apply their professional judgments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00226f5da662a1474820b55d8a0c91965edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f5da662a1474820b55d8a0c91965edd\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of quick ones, Minister. I\u2019d just like clarification on the Government\u2019s attitude or the support of k\u0101hui ako and what the Government\u2019s position is with that now. I\u2019m aware of continued support for implementation; however, I believe the in-school positions are going. That\u2019s the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EAnd I just wonder if you can clarify for me what\u2019s going on with the learning support coordinator positions currently, please, and moving forward over the next year or so, what\u2019s happening? Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022df5975b75ad04da8891061221529ab01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df5975b75ad04da8891061221529ab01\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll try and answer those very quickly. In terms of k\u0101hui ako, the Government supports the idea of collaboration between schools and early learning services. So the concept of k\u0101hui ako is something that we support. Do we think that the resources could be applied more flexibly? Yes, we do. However, having said that, most of the resourcing is tied up with commitments made under the collective agreements with the New Zealand Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association and the New Zealand Education Institute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo any further change there would be the subject of bargaining, and there already has been. In the last bargaining round, there was a decision taken, as part of that, to remove some of the resources around k\u0101hui ako in order to fund other parts of the settlement. Any further changes are, obviously, then the subject of bargaining, because pretty much all of the rest of the resourcing now is tied up with commitments under the collective agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the learning support coordinator role, it remains the Government\u2019s ambition to roll out more learning support coordinator roles, but that\u2019s obviously subject to getting the funding through future Budgets to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa9a33bdfce346afb28f9faa6308433a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa9a33bdfce346afb28f9faa6308433a\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde1f007c03e4abdbb08f5c12cabd237\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Bonus round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9da24efaa04d26b0266f25d099fca3\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Minister\u2014great! No, I wanted to ask the Minister about Reading Recovery. As we know at the moment, Reading Recovery is a three-tier intervention that\u2019s based on the whole-word approach, the three-cueing system. So it\u2019s very much that sort of system. Jan Tinetti, in her interview with Jack Tame, said that the evidence suggests that we use a more structured approach to teaching literacy, like structured literacy, and then went on to say that we should rename Reading Recovery and teach it in a way that is more of a structured literacy approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo the question to the Minister is: Reading Recovery is tied in with Marie Clay and her way of doing things, which is the three-cueing model. It was odd for the Associate Minister to say that, \u201CWell, if we just get rid of it, we won\u2019t have a three-tier intervention.\u201D Is it your intention, Minister, to replace Reading Recovery with something that is similar\u2014a three-tier intervention that has got a more structured literacy approach, that has a different name, that is very different than the three-cueing system, as she intimated? And if that is the case, are we going to get rid of the three-cueing system in New Zealand, like they have done around the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002236b9ca059e404c37b673b45584b29327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236b9ca059e404c37b673b45584b29327\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t want to be dismissive, but the Government hasn\u2019t made decisions about that at this point. Will there continue to be a more intensive level of intervention? Yes, there absolutely will be. Are we looking to make sure that we\u2019re doing that in the most effective way possible? Yes, we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00226f71fcab0eec4b85af1c4462afd42261\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f71fcab0eec4b85af1c4462afd42261\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E What does that mean\u2014\u201Cthe most effective way possible\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIn 2018, the Government had a literacy report done by Massey University, which told them everything that they needed to know. Some parts of it have been implemented; I understand that. But the evidence very clearly shows that a structured literacy approach is in big contrast to the three-cueing system. So if we\u2019re going to be introducing structured literacy\u2014which is what it sounded like, from what the Minister said to Jack Tame\u2014how can it be that we then continue with a reading recovery programme, which is in direct contradiction to that, which teaches children to look at the picture and use context to work out words; those things are in direct contradiction to each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo the question is, with this three-tier intervention, what is going to be? The Minister must have some idea. Is it going to be based on the latest science? And if that\u2019s the case, well, then, that would suggest what Jan Tinetti has been saying which is that the latest science\u2014I go back to my quote that she said, \u201CI haven\u2019t seen any evidence to suggest anything different than a structured literacy approach.\u201D Does that mean that we\u2019re going to be getting rid of reading recovery as it stands today and replacing it with a three-tier intervention that is based around a more structured literacy approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6889634bca14bbd980ebf1508fde8a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6889634bca14bbd980ebf1508fde8a6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As I indicated to the member, the Cabinet\u2014the Government\u2014has not made decisions on that yet. But I would say to her that I generally try and review a balance of research in these areas. I never take one single research report or one single evaluation report as a gospel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfad96f15f734f36b5abed752ce1a768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfad96f15f734f36b5abed752ce1a768\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E The Reading Recovery contract is up for renewal. We know that it runs out early next year and will be very soon up for renewal. So when is the Cabinet going to make a decision on whether or not they continue with the Reading Recovery programme, given that the contract needs to be renewed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002271c06d314ffd454fb93423b335f38734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c06d314ffd454fb93423b335f38734\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I can\u2019t add any more to the fact that we haven\u2019t made decisions on that yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022149b44662daa474bb3e06f1ffdc134b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022149b44662daa474bb3e06f1ffdc134b9\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I want to go back to the learning support coordinators that we were talking about earlier. It was the Government\u2019s promise to introduce these, and I understand that the Minister just said that it will depend on future Budget bids, so we will have to wait and see if that happens. What I want to know from the Minister is: how will they be rolled out differently to when they\u2019ve been rolled out in the past? The reason I ask is because some very needy schools have not got access to learning support coordinators\u2014I can see the Minister nodding. It was rolled out in a very higgledy-piggledy way. No one quite knows how it was done. Can the Minister explain to this House how it\u2019s going to be done differently this time to make sure that those schools who have the most need for those learning support coordinators are going to get access to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbba09241f024271932911eb7e0ac8cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbba09241f024271932911eb7e0ac8cb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I disagree with the phrase \u201Chiggledy-piggledy\u201D in terms of how they were rolled out last time. They were rolled out, last time, based on the Ministry of Education\u2019s assessment around which schools were most prepared to roll out the new learning support model. That has led to some inequity. So we will use a different approach to rolling it out if we extend the roles further in the near future, and, of course, that will be part of Budget decision-making. So decisions haven\u2019t been taken on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00221e1a2011361b4b33924116949a6baba1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e1a2011361b4b33924116949a6baba1\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate this is not a question on notice to the Minister, so I\u2019ll understand if the specific nature of it means that he\u2019s not able to answer. But in relation to the mighty electorate of Kaipara ki Mahurangi\u2014north-west Auckland and north and a bit of the west, actually\u2014the Minister may be aware, and, in fact, I think he and his office have engaged in correspondence, and certainly the Ministry of Education has, about the need for an additional high school in the area. It is a fast-growing population which is seeing not only, most obviously, the growth of residential housing but also early childhood education centres and primary schools, which include intermediate schools in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThese are all growing. New institutions, as in centres and schools, are being added and classrooms are being added to existing ones. So the obvious question is that as those children get older and inevitably need schooling of a secondary nature, what is being provided for them in the area? I understand that between\u2014I think I am correct in saying\u20142023 and 2026, it\u2019s intended to establish such a school, but I wonder if the Minister can give any updates, even if it\u2019s merely in relation to acquiring land as opposed to subsequent steps that would be needed to achieve that for the benefit of the area. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022486c707049474c559819cf66cb333b48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022486c707049474c559819cf66cb333b48\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask the Minister whether or not he thinks that his Associate Minister was speaking out of turn\u2014or made promises, or comments, sorry, that perhaps she shouldn\u2019t have on the Jack Tame show Q\u002BA on the weekend. Because she was very clear that Reading Recovery would likely be renamed, it would likely be a structured literacy approach, and it wouldn\u2019t continue as the three cueing system, as it is. Now, the Minister has just said that the Cabinet hasn\u2019t made a decision on that. So could he let us know whether or not the comments that Jan Tinetti made on the weekend can be relied on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe comments that she also made were around the fact that the science and evidence that she had seen meant that there wasn\u2019t anything else that she had seen that was anything better than structured literacy, when she was asked around this. So the question to the Minister is: why on earth, if that is the case, if that is what the evidence says, as Jan Tinetti has said\u2014why on earth are we having a common practice model that the Minister has said today is going to include everything, whatever a teacher wants to put in there? It might be three cueing\u2014if I look at the picture, guess from the context, have a look at the first letter of the word and try and guess it. If all of the evidence and all of the science around the science of reading points to a decoding of the word to learn to read, why is it that this Government don\u2019t have the courage to stand up and say, \u201CThis is going to be the common practice model.\u201D, as Jan Tinetti herself said on Q\u002BA when pushed by Jack Tame this weekend? And isn\u2019t it the case that the Minister is just trying to keep everyone happy at the expense of teaching our kids to read in the manner in which the science suggests is the best way to teach them to read?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022384c9e2e1628474587e9fee8a5025069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022384c9e2e1628474587e9fee8a5025069\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I reject the member\u2019s characterisation of what I have said and what the Minister has said. In terms of my confidence in Jan Tinetti, I have absolute confidence in her. She is a longstanding, well-respected primary school teacher and principal, and of course I trust her to make judgments and to make public statements in her areas of delegation, and this is one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ve also made it very clear, as the Minister of Education, that I will continue to trust the judgments of teachers. When it comes to decisions around how each individual child will best learn the content of the curriculum, then, ultimately the teacher in the classroom is the person who is best positioned to make that. We need to provide resources and support to teachers so they can do their jobs as effectively as possible. But I am not going to dictate to them\u2014in the way the last Government tried to, with national standards\u2014exactly how to do their jobs, because it doesn\u2019t work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo in terms of the question from Chris Penk around growth in his electorate, I don\u2019t have the 39 catchment plans that are contained within the National Education Growth Plan with me. But they are probably the best place to look for guidance around where we envisage extra schools are going to be required. I will say to him that one of the most tricky things in this area is we know, in many cases, exactly where we need additional schools, but we won\u2019t confirm that publicly until we\u2019ve actually bought the land, because it immediately inflates the value of the available land in that area. The ministry are out in the market all of the time buying land. Sometimes people can\u2019t visibly see the progress that they\u2019re making until the deal is signed. There\u2019s often good reasons for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ada35890d3cc401fb2c888755b2addb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ada35890d3cc401fb2c888755b2addb6\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Two statements, and a question, but they are sort of all questions, too. I\u2019ve been going around my own electorate, which is mightier than Kaipara ki Mahurangi\u2014it\u2019s known as T\u0101maki; come and visit some time. But talking to the various schools and principals, one point of feedback is certainly around growth and how to keep anticipating. That\u2019s always a challenge, as you\u2019ll understand, Minister\u2014to anticipate the growth and find the funds for it. But certainly in our electorate, we\u2019re seeing greater intensification. A number of the schools are looking to expand their classrooms, but I will say they\u2019re also grateful for the buildings that have been done. They\u2019re also indicating questions around how much time can teachers be given to learn elements of the new curriculum, including the likes of the New Zealand history curriculum. While they welcome that, they\u2019re finding a little bit of a tension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe question, though, is around\u2014and I\u2019m not fully up to speed on this. Several principals have talked to me about the regulations or guidelines around restraint of students and saying that this has been waited on for almost two years now. I could be wrong on the specifics of that, and that\u2019s not to prejudice my principals and teachers, but they feel at the moment quite exposed without those guidelines, and there\u2019s a growing frustration that these are not yet present to allow the schools to appropriately deal with their students. So I\u2019m just wondering if the Minister has any information, obviously, to give to the committee but, in turn, that we could share to our principals around when we might anticipate these guidelines around restraint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022330ccedf085649afbd6c72655da8cbed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022330ccedf085649afbd6c72655da8cbed\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m happy to follow up for the member and get some further information for the member and get some further information on when the guidance around the guidelines will be updated. It has been a really contentious issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe guidelines were the ones developed by Hekia Parata, with the support of the then Opposition, because I think we agreed that seclusion and the use of the restraint in a lot of contexts was wrong. However, having said that, I know that there\u2019s a sense amongst some in the profession that the pendulum has swung too far the other way, to the point where reasonable steps that they might have previously taken are now ones that they are cautious in doing so. So further guidance\u2014and I haven\u2019t looked at it for a wee while, so I don\u2019t have that\u2014was being developed by the Ministry of Education. I\u2019m happy to follow up and get back to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a257732fd89841ad828ab0672afe9c84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a257732fd89841ad828ab0672afe9c84\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E A point of order, Madam Chair. Can I just ask how long the Minister has got left to speak? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb9d59f2438414ca726b9d52a02c9db\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: He has just over four minutes left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca7d9abc41d746dbbeef4f20b3b0d4e4\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Four minutes\u2014OK, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the literacy conversation we were having with the Minister around the common practice model. The whole point of the literacy document that was put out earlier this year, the Literacy \u0026amp; Communication and Maths Strategy, and then the action plan, was to put in place a common practice model. The common practice model, as it was explained, was to make sure that across the board, teachers were teaching the common practice. Now, the Minister today has continually told us that there won\u2019t be a common practice\u2014we will not tell teachers how to teach. In fact, we will allow teachers to use whichever model they think is best for their class and their students. If that is the case, what is the point in having a common practice model, and what is going to be in it? If everything is in the common practice model, then why have a common practice model, because that\u2019s pretty much what we already have, which is everything is available to everyone. What was the point in spending all of the money, time, and resources on these groups to set up what is a common practice model that, in reality, will mean absolutely nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: has he backed down? Has he bowed to the sector after what happened on the weekend where the Associate Minister clearly laid out what I thought were some really great, insightful comments around the use of structured literacy and made it sound like that was going to be the common practice model. We\u2019ve been failing children\u2014and it\u2019s not a political thing; we\u2019ve been failing children in reading for decades. We know from international studies, we know from the National Monitoring Study of Student Achievement data, we know from our own internal data that things are going backwards at a great rate of knots, and the Literacy \u0026amp; Communication and Maths Strategy, when it came out\u2014which didn\u2019t say a lot; we were waiting for the Minister to say what it actually meant, and finally we got something from her on the weekend, which was very much in favour of structured literacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister has told us today that he\u2019s going to be providing lots of resources, and that\u2019s all very well and good\u2014lots of resources for teachers so that they can pick and choose. Great, an increase in resources, but that\u2019s a very different thing than a common practice model. What is a common practice model if it\u2019s just a model that includes absolutely everything that a teacher can choose from? How is that going to shift the dial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d59ba41eb3b42eea84143be1a3cc33f\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: How is that common?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef4a69e5b6e4428b898644a9f0b89478\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: You know, it\u2019s not common at all. Well, I suppose it\u2019s very common, because there\u2019s everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ELook, I really want the Minister to be really clear: what is a common practice model going to include, because at the moment, it sounds like we were just about to get there with Jan Tinetti\u2019s comments on the weekend, and now this feels like a massive U-turn away from what she said, away from the evidence and back to, \u201CWell, we\u2019ll just let everybody choose whatever they want to do.\u201D, which is the thing that has been failing us for so many decades, because we\u2019ve ignored the science of reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo please, Minister, tell us what the intention is for a common practice model, without telling us about resources, because that\u2019s a separate thing. What is a common practice model, and what will be included in it? Will it just be one way? Will it be two ways? Will it be three ways? Will it include the three-cueing system, especially\u2014because that\u2019s the bone of contention that lots of other countries around the world have gotten rid of because of the evidence that it doesn\u2019t work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo please, Minister, you need to explain to us the difference between a common practice model and your comments around \u201CWe will not dictate to teachers how they should teach kids to read.\u201D Those two things don\u2019t sit together, and I just want some clarification on what a common practice model is, and what it will include.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022d92e6edb520148bd9ecf3b8d7fb27cba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d92e6edb520148bd9ecf3b8d7fb27cba\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I\u2019ll keep this as brief as possible, because I have addressed these questions to the Minister throughout the Estimates debate but I think it\u2019s really worthwhile putting it on the record in the committee and also putting the question to him directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThese Estimates occurred almost in parallel with our process for the People\u2019s Inquiry into Student Wellbeing, a document that I know that the Minister now has on his desk. Within this report, there is a crunching of data that shows that students are doing it incredibly tough. Here, I\u2019d like to read just an excerpt from a story that we got permission to share.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis is Wiremu\u2019s story\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CI\u2019m a full-time student and work 20 hours a week. To make ends meet I borrow money, stay with family until I can afford to leave, sacrifice certain things like hygiene products and do without food every few weeks and don\u2019t go to the doctor or dentist. It\u2019s not like I live in one of the most expensive cities or somewhere flash either. I sleep in an uninsulated garage with a large garage door that lets rain in. It\u2019s only half carpeted. In the winter the walls condensate and both sides of the windows frost over. I went looking for new places to stay recently but I could not afford a single one of the places I viewed despite them being pretty run down. When COVID hit, my kura offered support. I tried to access the support and I did everything that was required of me, but they didn\u2019t follow through.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThat, of course, is reflective of the circumstances that many students shared with us with the COVID hardship fund, which we obviously canvassed throughout this Estimates review. It also is pretty reflective of the broader experience that shows in this report that two-thirds of students regularly cannot afford the basics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is, what are the variables necessary for the Government\u2014or the context, politically, or otherwise\u2014that will see him implement a universal student allowance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00228d0538d53de34b299570fe35b7a66ea3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d0538d53de34b299570fe35b7a66ea3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Just to come back very quickly to Erica Stanford\u2019s most recent comments, there is absolutely nothing contradictory between saying that we could have a common practice model and high-quality resources for teachers and then saying that we\u2019re still going to trust teachers\u2019 professional judgments about how best to teach the children in their classroom. That is what a quality education system looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the questions raised by Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, in terms of how we increase tertiary student support, it really is going to depend on the overall economic situation facing the Government and our ability to do that. As the member is well aware, for my entire working life, I have been advocating for a better deal for tertiary students, and I\u2019ll continue to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not able to make any pre-commitments at this point around a universal student allowance or, in fact, any other forms of increased tertiary student support, but I will point to the Government\u2019s record in that regard: increases in student allowances; the eligibility for things like the Cost of Living Payment; the hardship fund; first year fees-free; the targeted training and apprenticeships fund (the TTAF). There are a range of things that this Government has done that have been designed to bring down the cost of tertiary education and to better financially support tertiary students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00224782a589d316459abeaffcc86b789214\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224782a589d316459abeaffcc86b789214\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Turning then to the issue of student debt, we have in the Estimates on page 14 of the Education and Workforce Committee\u2019s report, but in page 83 of the broader Estimates document for anybody following alone at home, notation of the fact that there is $1.8 billion in overdue student debt; $1.7 billion of that is owed by people now overseas. The Minister will be aware, as I addressed in the select committee hearing, that these were also questions I put to the Minister of Revenue, and I understand that there had been some work on it. As noted in the Estimates document itself, it states that the Minister said work was done on this in 2018 but had not looked into the issue in the past 18 months. So to that effect, knowing that debt accumulates interest for those students, particularly past students who are now overseas, and given that there hasn\u2019t been much work done on it in the past 18 months, may I ask the Minister if he intends to move ahead with any work in the future or at present?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022729d0850d1ca4c1dad9365e719f900b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022729d0850d1ca4c1dad9365e719f900b7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I can certainly assure the member that we are very keen to get those students who are overseas, or former students who are overseas with student loan debt, repaying their student loans. And so we will continue to work to try and improve our data in that regard, improve our contacts with those people in that regard. The IRD do a great job, I think, of leading that process. It\u2019s not to say that it\u2019s perfect. In terms of any future policy change around that, as I\u2019ve indicated to the member before, it\u2019s not something that I have been actively considering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca49546fba0748c2bd02a90f5d247676\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca49546fba0748c2bd02a90f5d247676\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E To the point as raised in my initial question to the Minister around the hardship faced by students, we know that this is disproportionately being felt by those who have historically been structurally marginalised. But we also know based on this data, and recent data collated by Dr Sereana Naepi from the University of Auckland, that this is concentrated particularly with postgraduate students. To that effect, I have been hearing from a number of constituents in Auckland Central, but also tertiary students across the country, who have been speaking to the diverse approaches that universities, and even faculties within universities, are taking to the issue of stipends. We are seeing there is massive discrepancy in the value being paid out to students. I\u2019m wondering if the Minister\u2019s done any work on this, particularly given that hardship and that barrier to access study and therefore the research that our country is powered by, or, if not, if he would encourage the Education and Workforce Committee to do more work in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223150e4c563c24fda9d8dd2728768763f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223150e4c563c24fda9d8dd2728768763f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first question, no, it\u2019s not a topic that I have done a lot of work on. In answer to the second question, of course I am not going to direct select committees, but it is an area that I think is worthy of further investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00222229c2bdf93a4c4e98e7c518c4ac82f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222229c2bdf93a4c4e98e7c518c4ac82f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time for this debate has now expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a385674703784ce19277a5c4b88a217e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriation for 2022/23 stand part of the Schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Sharma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad3f1a00a319431cab598fcebc337473\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 10 and Schedules 1 to 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Sharma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 10 and Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000319\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000320\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfe186b64be74ff2968349d5cc73fb91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfe186b64be74ff2968349d5cc73fb91\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Appropriation (2022/23 Estimates) Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f446864f110446d2b7b710e8dd6fb467\u0022\u003ERemuneration Authority Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022858086537efa4a60936f36b8fbe028da\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000326\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 25 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00227a66ef8205cd4fe6813c3c94b70930ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a66ef8205cd4fe6813c3c94b70930ce\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Can I start by thanking you for the opportunity to finally take a call on this Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill at its second reading. It has been on the agenda for several House sitting days now, and my name is there, and it\u2019s getting closer and closer to me, and today, just as I\u2019m about to depart on a taxi to get back to the Far North, it\u2019s finally my chance to make this brief call. I\u2019ll make it brief because my friendly neighbour, flatmate, and neighbouring electorate member here, Dr Emily Henderson, is after me and she has a flight at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo we are here to debate the Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill, which transfers responsibility for determining remuneration of certain judicial bodies and statutory officers to the Remuneration Authority to recognise the judicial nature of those positions. Currently, those decisions are made by the Cabinet fees framework. This bill proposes to transfer those to the Remuneration Authority. The bodies and offices to which this bill is related to are the Disputes Tribunal referees, community magistrates of the District Court, chairperson and deputy chairpersons of the Human Rights Review Tribunal, deputy chairpersons and members of the Immigration and Protection Tribunal, environment commissioners, and deputy environment commissioners of the Environment Court, and tenancy tribunal adjudicators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is important, because we believe it will enhance public confidence in our judicial system by making changes relating to the responsibility to determine remuneration of some of our statutory and judicial officers and transferring that to an independent body, which is the Remuneration Authority, thereby enhancing public confidence in the integrity of the independence of these tribunals who make decisions that do affect ordinary New Zealanders greatly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAnd so, with that, I just want to acknowledge the Justice Committee. I don\u2019t want to say they didn\u2019t have a huge amount of work, but I do note that they only had four submissions, only two of which were actually in scope\u2014two were ruled out of scope. They were both supportive of the legislation, and the select committee were unanimous in recommending this bill back to the House unchanged. So I want to thank all of those involved, including the officials, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae7b367291ad46d2a7fa6b16f1b86a54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae7b367291ad46d2a7fa6b16f1b86a54\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. I also rise to take a brief call. My friend, flatmate, and neighbouring electorate MP in Northland has outlined the tribunals. This is a bill which does a small but important job. It takes a number of tribunals, from the Disputes Tribunal to the Human Rights Tribunal, and it takes them out from under the Cabinet fees framework and puts them into the independent Remuneration Authority. It sounds not much, but it is in fact the defence of one of the pillars of democracy, which is the independence of our judiciary. It is incredibly important that our judiciary remain free from political influence. And I say that to all of those who occasionally ring me and ask why it is that our Government has not pushed for certain penalties when judges bring them down. The reason is if we are able to influence the judiciary, then that way lies the demise of democracy, and we see all over the world today the situation where democracy is being eroded because it is too little regarded, too much taken for granted, and that is no way to maintain something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo for that reason, it is a small but mighty step to preserve the independence of the judiciary, to preserve our democracy. I commend the fierce independence of the judiciary in this country. If you have worked outside this country, if you have worked with academics and lawyers from overseas countries, you will know that is not always the case, and you will have heard stories from them that are, frankly, frightening, about what happens when a judiciary is, in fact, subject to political influence, political insecurity, or economic insecurity. That way lies fascism; that way lies madness. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3a0d3aa8f9841a3a586d1bd4a98ae40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3a0d3aa8f9841a3a586d1bd4a98ae40\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, there are some good points and bad points. I mean, first and foremost, I actually agree with Dr Emily Henderson and Willow-Jean Prime that we\u2019ve waited a very long time to give our little orations on this bill, so it\u2019s nice to be here. But I do have to take umbrage with this whole \u201Cdemise of democracy\u201D. I mean, the first comment that she uttered just dripped with political bias\u2014I mean, the continuum of political instability is not a line between communism and fascism, but it\u2019s a horseshoe. In other words, basically, the fascists are the communists and the communists are the fascists\u2014they\u2019re all the same and democracy sits in the middle. I mean, it\u2019s just nutcase stuff. So if we\u2019re going to be talking about this Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill supporting democracy\u2014which it does\u2014we could do without comments like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut to add to the point, again, under the notion of what this bill seeks to do to enhance our democracy, there is a dripping irony today that we\u2019ve had to sit through a Labour-sponsored bill around plain language which is setting to define what New Zealanders are allowed to or not to say, and literally in the last hour, I\u2019m picking up news that Local Government New Zealand in its wisdom has decided it will decide, along with its activist groups, which candidates are worthy of being elected or not. So for a Government to stand here and trumpet its bill and how it\u2019s protecting democracy, yet on the other hand wanting to dictate to Kiwis what words they can use and who, rightfully, can stand for democratic election, I find, is a word I\u2019m not allowed to use in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74bdca8bc684823bab332de7dc52c38\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr O\u2019Connor, we will dictate at the moment that you will return to the bill, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af637a867bb843a490892de853268317\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, probably\u2014probably. So, returning to the bill, it\u2019s pretty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229203487cb07d4943ab7eebfa56fdc726\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, you will, Mr O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71b46661e6e474982c6c9f94b3db512\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, very good. We like to follow instruction in this democratic world. Remun\u2014remuneration\u2014I don\u2019t know why I can never get my tongue around that. Basically, it\u2019s moving the authority from Cabinet to an independent authority. Do you know what? That\u2019s a really good thing, and despite having waited weeks to give this speech, I don\u2019t feel there\u2019s much more I need to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00225a37ad5eead340c087f06482558e994d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a37ad5eead340c087f06482558e994d\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I, too, have waited some weeks to make a contribution on this Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill. I have seen some previous speakers and listened to their speeches, and there was\u2014in some of the speeches\u2014a bit of a lack of enthusiasm about this particular bill. But that is not a sentiment I share. I\u2019m incredibly enthusiastic about this Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill for the main reasons that it fundamentally supports the notion of separation of powers and also enhances judicial independence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe main issue that I wanted to cover in my short contribution today is really that currently we have the Cabinet fees framework, administered on behalf of the executive, paying, essentially, the salaries of people who are part of the judiciary working on tribunals. Now, a lot of the members of the public won\u2019t necessarily know the difference between a tribunal and a court. To them, they are impartial decision makers and they have integrity, and it\u2019s important that that\u2019s upheld. So the move, then, to make the payment of salaries of some of these tribunals more independent is incredibly important. So I support the move to make the independent Remuneration Authority the one who is charged with paying these particular salaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETwo particular examples that I want to mention quickly. I think it\u2019s particularly important for immigration, where the Minister can hear appeals at the immigration tribunal\u2014I think it\u2019s particularly important to make sure that that is seen as independent. The second example is the Human Rights Review Tribunal, which of course can make declarations of inconsistency with pieces of legislation. It\u2019s also particularly important that that tribunal\u2014which also shares that power now with the courts, following another new piece of legislation that this Labour Government has brought before the House\u2014are seen to be, and are, independent. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220589b971e0094468bb822e4b934c0654\u0022\u003EOranga Tamariki Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9f59efcbbea4b4b8dcb5589094d631a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6c109cd6fc8416a8230c917c63a1571\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6c109cd6fc8416a8230c917c63a1571\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Children: I present to the House a legislative statement on the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a212dd8834d04ea790f6a6efd81fec92\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the parliamentary website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c1f40cc068c4692ba966defaff8e088\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 by partially repealing the subsequent child provisions so that the subsequent child provisions will only apply in respect of parents with a conviction relating to the murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child in their care; repealing a redundant provision relating to data sets; making a number of minor and technical amendments aimed at improving clarity and addressing omissions and ambiguity in the Act. I\u2019ll talk more about the partial repeal of the subsequent child provisions later in this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut before I do, I\u2019d like to thank the Social Services and Community Committee for their examination of the bill during the select committee stage, and all of the submitters for their time and contribution to the bill. By majority, the Social Services and Community Committee recommends the passing of the bill, with a number of changes aimed at improving the readability and workability of the bill. These changes are set out in the legislative statement, so I\u2019ll only mention three of the changes in this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe first change reflects the importance of ensuring that the family is able to have private deliberation time as part of family group conferences, without the chief executive and/or their delegate present, unless they\u2019re invited by the family, of course. New clause 6A clarifies that there is no automatic entitlement for the chief executive or their delegate to attend family deliberation time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAnother change relates to clauses 33 and 34 and new clause 6B. Clauses 33 and 34 sought to clarify that youth justice family group conferences could make decisions and formulate plans when a child or young person was not in need of care or protection but was in need of assistance. However, submitters considered that the phrase \u201Cin need of assistance\u201D required further clarification. The committee has recommended modifying section 28B of the Act, in new clause 6B, and clauses 33 and 34 to remove the term \u201Cin need of assistance\u201D. These changes will also help to align provisions relating to youth justice family group conferences with those relating to care and protection family group conferences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe final change I want to mention relates to the power to make regulations in relation to the assessment, training, and support of caregivers and care providers. Submitters were concerned that clause 43 as drafted would mean that an assessment of the suitability of care providers would no longer be covered. The committee has recommended changes to address this and clarify the wording used to describe care providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to acknowledge that there were and are some submitters who are disappointed that this bill does not make the fundamental changes to Oranga Tamariki. I can understand that\u2014people, particularly M\u0101ori, have been waiting for change for a number of years. When Oranga Tamariki was established, it was recognised that what had gone before and its predecessors had not worked\u2014that is, they were not sufficiently working with families and wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, iwi, and communities to protect our children. We know that Oranga Tamariki still has more to do to live up to expectations in that regard. Many of us want to see change and that Oranga Tamariki make a positive difference in the lives of all children and young people and for the families and wh\u0101nau and the communities in which it operates. At the same time, I\u2019m aware that progress and results will not happen immediately. Trying to achieve quick wins will not result in the fundamental change required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis brings me back to the partial repeal of the subsequent child provisions\u2014the part of the bill that is not supported by all members of the committee, and I\u2019m disappointed in that. The subsequent child provisions were enacted by the previous Government and currently apply where a parent has previously had a child permanently removed from their care or has a murder, manslaughter, or infanticide conviction for the death of a child in their care. The bill proposes to partially repeal those provisions as they apply to subsequent children where a parent has had the care of a previous child removed and it has been determined that there is no realistic prospect of return to the parents. These provisions will, however, be retained where they relate to parents who have been convicted of the death of a child in their care. This reflects the seriousness of those offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe proposed change reflects a first-principles review of the subsequent child provisions, which found that the provisions were not promoting the best interests of children, rather the provisions were causing harm, particularly for children with an older sibling already in care. This is because a court is required to determine that there\u2019s no realistic prospect that an older sibling who has already been removed would be returned to their parents\u2019 care, a process that results in additional and potentially traumatic court proceedings of that older sibling. The subsequent child provisions have also placed social workers in a difficult position and undermined their ability to work meaningfully with wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, iwi, and communities. The proposed change will support social workers to use their skills, their expertise, and their professional knowledge, as appropriate, in an area of work that requires significant sensitivity and skill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EFinally, the subsequent child provisions have significantly damaged the relationship between Oranga Tamariki and M\u0101ori. The Waitangi Tribunal found that the provisions caused prejudice to M\u0101ori and would be a continuing breach of the Treaty until they are partially repealed. Partial repeal, therefore, supports a rebuilding of relationships with M\u0101ori. Rebuilding the relationship with M\u0101ori and with communities is an important part of the future direction for Oranga Tamariki, which is about empowering communities, empowering wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi to support their own, to help the children and young people, the parents and the wh\u0101nau who live in their communities. And that change is vital if we\u2019re going to improve the outcomes for children, young people, and their families and wh\u0101nau in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EFinally, I think it\u2019s important again to acknowledge social workers and the work they do to support our most vulnerable children and young people and our most vulnerable families and wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, kei ng\u0101 kaih\u0101pai, ng\u0101 kaitiaki o \u0101 t\u0101tou nei wh\u0101nau, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[And so, to the advocates and the caregivers of our families, thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThank you for what you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f857e5d8824d41fe8a7e8f197d9ffdf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f857e5d8824d41fe8a7e8f197d9ffdf5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4deac83475b4203b2efbc09cb12f3f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4deac83475b4203b2efbc09cb12f3f5\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I stand for the National Party in opposition to this bill. As the Minister has pointed out, it was a split decision within the Social Services and Community Committee\u2014a select committee that, I have to say, does tend to work very well on many of the issues that we deal with and in a collegial manner. But, of course, there are some philosophical differences around the table, and this happens to be one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe Minister has outlined the changes that are going to happen as a result of this piece of legislation, but I would just like to realise, for the House\u2019s benefit, and clarify the two main ones that are of particular concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EOne of them is the subsequent child provision, which is in the principal Act in section 18B, and the consequential changes associated with that partial repeal, which I will explain a little bit soon. And then there was another repeal which is considered to be redundant, and that was information sharing which is contained in section 66D of the principal Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, this wasn\u2019t a bill that attracted a huge amount of attention from the public. One of those reasons may have been that the select committee was also dealing with the Oversight of Oranga Tamariki System and Children and Young People\u2019s Commission Bill, which did attract a huge amount of attention. And so having these bills running concurrently I think distracted a little bit from this one actually reaching out to many of the submitters that may have otherwise been involved in providing feedback to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAs a consequence, only 24 written submissions were received by the select committee. Out of those, 11 submitters presented orally to the select committee. So not a huge amount of feedback for the select committee to be able to gauge the interest, nor to have provided to us some of the arguments for or against some of the provisions contained in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe bill, as I said, contains a couple of parts. The first of those is around the subsequent child provision. The part of that that\u2019s being repealed does not apply to this one. This is the one that\u2019s actually being retained within the bill. And that is, as it relates to parents who have a conviction for murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child or young person in their care, which is the section 18B(1)(a) provision in the principal Act. The decision was made and the bill was not designed to exclude that, so that has been the part of this section 18 that is staying active.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe other part of it is the bit that is going to be removed, and that is, for parents who had a previous child or a young person removed from their care where there was no realistic possibility that that child would be returned to that parent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESo these are the most extreme cases of concern around wellbeing and safety for these children. For many of those children, they go on to be placed into homes for life, where they are considered to be safe, secure, and loved by the adopted parents or the caregivers who provide those homes to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESo the part that is staying is the bit that is probably the most extreme, which is around murder or manslaughter or infanticide. The bit that is being removed is the bit where a previous child has been removed from a parent and has no likelihood of being returned. So the design this provision was put in for in the first place was to ensure that where a child had been removed from a parent, the children born subsequently to the same parent was an automatic consideration for the safety of that subsequent child\u2014that second or third or fourth child, or however many the parents went on to have. So, in effect, what it was doing was ensuring that there was a mandated and automatic response when subsequent children were born into that family. Basically, what it was there for was to provide greater oversight of the safety of those subsequent children. So that is the National Party\u2019s view: it is that the reason that that provision was put there in the first place was focused entirely on the safety of subsequent children\u2014and there is no argument that lots of work needs to be done with families, that wraparound services are provided to families to ensure that they get the support that they need to make sure that they become safe, loving parents, providing for their children\u2014but by eliminating this clause in this piece of legislation, it simply removes a safety valve that is in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting, when we go back and look at some of the statistics, this provision has been used around 19 times since the Act came into force, which was in mid-2016. So it\u2019s not something that has been used without a huge amount of consideration and discretion. So when I look at the rationale for unwinding this provision within this bill\u2014and I\u2019ve heard the Minister express this in her opening remarks, where we need to build relationships with families and rebuild relationships. And that\u2019s all very well, but actually, this isn\u2019t about the families; this is about the children. This is where we separated in the select committee when we were debating this bill. This bill is focused on the parents. It\u2019s focused on the system. It is not focused on the children. And we make no apology for taking that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EWe have to remember, too, some of the children that have been victims of serious crime, and it\u2019s a sad day for New Zealand when we have international rankings that refer to New Zealand as one of the poor performers in the world. We are ranked really lowly in terms of being able to provide for child wellbeing outcomes. I\u2019m going to quote\u2014this is outdated data; it was last year\u2019s data\u2014we were 35 out of 41 in developed countries for child wellbeing outcomes. In 2003, which was the latest data I was able to source, UNICEF ranked us as the third highest amongst rich countries for its child maltreatment death rates. That is a shocking record of abuse of our children. And the sad thing is, this bill is not going to provide that safety net, that safety valve that we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESo I think what we\u2019re doing with this bill\u2014or what the Government is doing with this bill\u2014it\u2019s setting out to improve practice within the system and it\u2019s setting out to make pathways easier for those that interact with it, but it has lost its focus for the safety of children. We have to wonder whether it is actually with the practice that there is an issue or with the law. I would argue that the issues we have are with the practices that are employed, not with the law. So I think we have found a separation in terms of where our focus lies. Our focus on this side of the House lies with the safety of children, ensuring that the systems are in place. This bill does nothing to build the resources of our social workers who work tirelessly to support these families. It doesn\u2019t create one new social worker. It just makes the system easier. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002244e5f062518c41c3a40659c81421ee2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244e5f062518c41c3a40659c81421ee2a\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before I commence my speech, I would like to just acknowledge\u2014this is the first opportunity I have to acknowledge you in the chair as the Deputy Speaker. Congratulations, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m here to speak quite briefly on the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill, and I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the previous speaker, Maureen Pugh, who spoke quite sensitively about this matter. I think it is one that is serious and important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge and thank the Minister Kelvin Davis first and foremost, for bringing this bill to the House, and for the Minister Nanaia Mahuta who took his place and presented his speech and statement. We did only have 24 submissions, and we heard from 12 submitters via video conference during a time where most work was online. I want to also acknowledge how much more complex that made the work process for the officials\u2014parliamentary counsel, the Office of the Clerk, but also for the Social Services and Community Committee, who, by and large, do work very collaboratively together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m quite pleased, today, to be speaking to this bill, because I do recall a time in 2016 when this piece of legislation came in, and the House may recall that at that time I was the manager of a women\u2019s refuge, and we recall having the conversation about the work that we did with the mothers who had often had warnings or had children uplifted from them about what hope this piece of legislation gave them. I can tell you, it was quite a harsh piece of legislation for those families. Those mothers always wanted their children back. They always, always wanted to do the right thing. They had lost their children and they were working very hard, and this piece of legislation, brought in by the National Party in 2016, changed the onus or burden of proof to actually make these under-resourced, these very complex presenting families, prove that they were worthy parents, and it was a difficult thing for us to work with them about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to be really clear that the submissions that we heard were, by and large, positive, and the subsequent child aspect was probably the most complex part of the bill, or the most controversial. I do acknowledge that there were differing views at the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI would just like to go through the wording of the legislation that we changed in regards to the subsequent child. So first and foremost, \u201Ca subsequent child is any child, born or unborn\u201D\u2014keep that in mind; unborn also\u2014\u201Cwho has a parent who has been convicted of the murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child or young person in their care or custody\u201D. So that\u2019s the first part. That\u2019s the part we are not repealing. That is the part that is staying in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThe second part\u2014this is the part that we are repealing: \u201Cwho has had a previous child or young person removed from their care and there is no realistic prospect that the child or young person will be returned to the person\u2019s care.\u201D Now, the previous speaker said those words, but I want this House to sit for a moment in actually what that means. The children or child who has previously been placed with another family has to go to court, and that child has to be part of the process that says that their parent\u2014their birth parent\u2014will never, ever, realistically, be their parent again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI would like to ask the House whether that is harmful or not, and I believe it is. I certainly understand the concept around why this was put in place. The mechanism and the use and how this occurs to those families, and even if it was 19 children or 19 families that this has happened to\u2014this a redundant but it is also a repugnant part of the legislation that we have, and I\u2019m very delighted to be removing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI would like to finally just say, there was another large of pile of things that we changed in this bill, and so I\u2019m just going to very quickly a read a list and then I\u2019ll take my seat. So we changed parts of the Evidence Act, the payment of fees and expenses for youth advocates. We clarified and made clear the function for family group conferences and youth justice family group conferences. We clarified restraining orders and when and where they are appropriately applied. We amended transitional provisions and amended the ultimate right of the chief executive or their representative to attend a family group conference at the deliberation point, which is not necessarily the best point for that person to be at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo with that, I am delighted to stand in this House and to see this piece of repugnant legislation be partially repealed. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1c064670122416b9cddd7cb33d444fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1c064670122416b9cddd7cb33d444fe\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the National Party to speak on the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill. The National Party opposes this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe National Party brought in legislation that brought in the subsequent child removal policy, which took effect in 2006. The then Minister, the Hon Paula Bennett, said at the third reading, \u201CThis legislation will also switch the onus on parents who have killed or severely abused or neglected a child, and they\u2019ll now have to prove they are safe to parent subsequent children.\u201D So to be clear, the law that is being partially repealed today is that currently a subsequent child is \u201Cany child, born or unborn, who has a parent who has been convicted of the murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child or young person in their care or custody; or who has had a previous child or young person removed from their care and there is no realistic prospect that the child or young person will be returned to [the person\u2019s] care.\u201D So it\u2019s quite a high threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, New Zealand has a real problem with violence towards children in this country, and unfortunately I have seen this in courts around the country where I have practised previously. I\u2019ve seen it in Auckland, I\u2019ve seen it in the Bay of Plenty, and I\u2019ve seen it in the South Island, in Christchurch, and across the bottom of the South Island. There is a high rate, unfortunately, of abuse towards children. We need to put the best interests of children first to make sure that those children are cared for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThere is also\u2014and I\u2019ve seen this numerous times in cases\u2014a reluctance by those involved around the children, whether it\u2019s family members or other agencies, to raise the issues of children being abused. So it\u2019s actually quite difficult and it takes quite a few steps usually before something comes to the attention of the relevant agencies. And so we need to recognise that reality and we need to take steps to ensure that the children, and their best interests, are always taken into account first and we do what we can to ensure that they are looked after. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s a great country, but we need to also face facts. It ranks 35th out of 41 developed countries in the wellbeing outcomes for children. Every eighth homicide victim in New Zealand from 2004 to 31 March 2019 was a child. New Zealand has the seventh highest rate of child homicide in the OECD. New Zealand also has the highest rate of teen suicide in the OECD. I make those points, because this is a sober issue and one we have to really consider very, very carefully. We all want to try to do the best thing. We want parents to be the best that they can and provide the best environment for their children, and anyone else who has children in their vicinity. But we also have to recognise that we have a problem, and that\u2019s what this subsequent child policy aimed to address: to provide a clear criteria. A high threshold needed to be set before a child could remain in their care. And just to repeat that, again, the part of it that will remain is that a subsequent child is one who has a parent who has been convicted of the murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child or young person in their care or custody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe second part, which this bill is looking at removing or changing, is where they had a previous child or young person removed from their care and there is no realistic prospect that the child or young person will be returned to the person\u2019s care. So we need to take into account, when we consider this, that if it has been determined that there\u2019s no realistic prospect that a child will be returned to a person\u2019s care, can that person realistically be suitable to have another child in their care? It\u2019s something that we need to really take into account. The National Party isn\u2019t confident that the right approach has been taken here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThere is also another issue around the dataset provisions, in which there have been changes. This bill repeals section 66D. The dataset provision, 66D of the Act, came into effect on 1 July 2019, part of a suite of information-sharing provisions named in Part 2. Under that section, any agency that creates a dataset from more than one source of information is required to publicly notify details of that dataset. The notification must include the types of information used in the combined datasets, the source of those types of information, the purpose or purposes served by creating or analysing the combined datasets, and the privacy safeguards relating to the use of the combined datasets. Oranga Tamariki has found that the dataset provision could place an unnecessary administrative burden on child welfare and protection agencies without achieving the level of public accountability originally envisaged. In addition, since 2016, when the original dataset provisions were proposed, a number of initiatives across Government, they say, have, effectively, rendered the data redundant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EHowever, an alternative view is that this provision hasn\u2019t been adequately utilised and that it is a good provision to enable that information to be captured, which can inform decision makers, who have responsibilities to ensure the protection of children, so they have the information that they need, from a variety of different datasets, to identify children who could or have been abused. There\u2019s an argument to be made that there needs to be more upskilling of those who would supply the information. Unfortunately\u2014I won\u2019t say the name of the particular victim\u2014there was a case not that long ago where a centre was aware of injuries to the child and didn\u2019t report them. There needs to be some consideration of how we address that situation, rather than pulling back on the dataset provisions, I would suggest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI certainly have seen, unfortunately, in my time practising, that there are often a lot of little indicators that lead up to a serious crime of violence committed against a child. Those little indicators can build over time, people can excuse them and say, \u201CWell, it\u2019s not that bad\u201D, but then it just builds and builds, then something really bad, unfortunately, happens. So we need to be able to pick up on those small indicators and those little warning signs, those little warning flags, before it gets to a serious stage. I would suggest that we need to actually look at how to improve this provision, improve the ability of organisations to utilise that provision effectively to ensure we can pick up on those flags before it becomes a serious issue and children suffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI would say that the National Party absolutely values children, as I\u2019m sure every single member of this House does. We deeply value the wellbeing and welfare of all New Zealand children, and of all New Zealand children who have to, unfortunately, I would say, end up in State care. I say unfortunately because, ultimately, we want children to be in a safe and caring environment among those who are their family and wh\u0101nau\u2014that is the ideal situation. We want everyone to be able to get there. The reality is, unfortunately, that we are not in that position and we do have parents who are, unfortunately, unable to properly take care of their children in this country. Those earlier statistics I quoted, it\u2019s not things I\u2019m happy to say, because it\u2019s a sad moment, it\u2019s a sad statistic for the country, but it is one that we need to really have at the top of our mind, I would suggest. It\u2019s not acceptable that New Zealand has the seventh highest rate of child homicide in the OECD. Underlying that is the serious damage being done to children before it gets to the point of homicide. There\u2019s, unfortunately, a very high rate of child abuse in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo that is the reality that we have to grapple with. We have to work out the best way to address that, to improve the strength of families and the ability of parents to take proper care of their children. And we have to have the relevant law in place so we can ensure that the relevant agencies that are charged with taking care of children in cases where those who should be their caretakers are not able to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0bf611fd3ec4068986f1ee25e2f10e5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, sorry, speaker, my apologies. There\u2019s been a leak of the clock, and it\u2019s to your credit that you\u2019ve been able to speak so nobly and with such good vocabulary for that time, but, actually, I have to say to the speaker, the time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1ab7776deb4700b45a308bbdf702ae\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220589352232c842af8ad2699beb24a78f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But well done carrying on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00226cd835f8aa0c4a1e9a4c9181fb6738c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cd835f8aa0c4a1e9a4c9181fb6738c7\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s always an honour and a privilege to make a contribution in this House. Today, it\u2019s the second reading of the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill and I\u2019ll make a short contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge all the submitters. I want to acknowledge the Minister and his leadership in shepherding this important bill\u2014which is part of what he intends to deliver in his portfolio as the Minister for Children. I want to acknowledge the officials and the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the Minister clarify what the bill does, but I will focus on two matters that the bill does. So the bill amends the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 and it partially repeals the child provisions so that subsequent provisions will only apply in respect to parents relating to murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child in their care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhat happens now is that if a mother is pregnant, it has to be reported to the State, and the Family Court has mandatory oversight if the children in the care of the parent have been permanently removed by the State. So what this bill does is that it only will apply for parents who have been convicted of murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a child in their care. A Family Court conference is held to make decisions about the care of the unborn child before the child is born if it\u2019s reported in the subsequent provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhat happens? Currently, the Family Court conference allows for family deliberations to be private, but it doesn\u2019t actually clarify that Oranga Tamariki must not be present. What clause 6A does is it actually says that the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, or its representatives, must not be party to private family deliberations at Family Court conferences unless it\u2019s invited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to acknowledge the Oranga Tamariki M\u0101ori r\u014Dp\u016B, Te Awateatea, T\u0101makimakaurau [the M\u0101ori R\u014Dp\u016B Equal Employment Opportunities Site Management Teams within Oranga Tamariki, Te Awateatea, Auckland] especially the leadership of Danny Thompson, Maureen Rapata-Kemp, and Foulis Foster, because for years they have been championing the fact that the M\u0101ori engagement and decision making for mokopuna who are reported to Child, Youth and Family\u2014Oranga Tamariki now\u2014must involve family deliberations without the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what this bill will do; it will enable family deliberations at Family Court conferences not to have Oranga Tamariki or its representatives present during those deliberations. And with those words, I commend the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00226a59d1d922de49adb99bb657701bad93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a59d1d922de49adb99bb657701bad93\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve been standing a few times in this House, recently, to speak to Oranga Tamariki - related legislation. The conversations have not been comfortable recently, so it\u2019s a bit of a relief to be able to stand in the House in support of the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t have the luck or the time, unfortunately, to be on the select committee to hear all of the submissions. There were 24 written submissions and I have gone through those, and I think there were 11 oral submissions. So I am really interested in the committee stages that are due to come to hear more of that nuance, because I know so much of that detail comes in the conversations, and I\u2019m picking it up, primarily, from the written materials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn this contribution, I do want to primarily focus on the subsequent child policy, noting that most submissions also focused on that part of the bill. That part was introduced, I think, and came into law in 2016, under the then National Minister Paula Bennett. What it did was introduce a provision or a policy into the law that if somebody had had a child removed from their care because of murder, manslaughter, or infanticide, or a child had been removed that Oranga Tamariki\u2014then Child, Youth and Family\u2014did not believe would be returned, then if they were to have a subsequent child, then the social workers would have no discretion but to conduct an assessment of that child\u2019s safety and then must apply for one of two orders from the Family Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo if they were satisfied that the child would be safe, then then social worker would have to go to court for a confirmation of the decision not to apply for care and protection. So they\u2019d have to go to court to confirm that they would not take that child, because presumption was that they would take that child. Or, if they were not satisfied that the child would be safe, the social worker had to apply for a care and protection order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI was in Parliament at the time that that law passed. The Green Party raised concerns, along with others in this House, about the outcomes of that law. We understand, as we\u2019ve heard from other speakers tonight, the sense of real-heart concern that we all have for the wellbeing and the safety of our children in this country and our duty to do what we can and have laws that will protect them. But there was a problem at the time around the practices within Child, Youth and Family\u2014and part of it links to that sense of wanting to protect and the images that we have in our head of who we need to protect children from and also a failure to acknowledge the prevalence and the intersection between intimate partner violence and child abuse, as I think has been quite eloquently mentioned previously by Angie Warren-Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo in the first reading of that bill, in 2013, it had just been the previous week where the former Police Commissioner Howard Broad had released a review into the complaints system of Child, Youth and Family. At that time, he raised concern that their practice\u2014of the organisation\u2014was failing to adequately meet their legal obligations of checking on the wellbeing of children and that court decisions relying on social work evidence suffered from pre-determinable bias because of the reliance on that information and a lack of consistency from social workers across the board. We have not resolved those problems, and that policy exacerbated the harm from that pre-determined bias.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd what we hear\u2014I know that sounds like a complex way of putting it for some people. But to put it simply, in some levels, 48 percent of pregnant women\u2014if I\u2019m remembering correctly\u2014whose p\u0113p\u0113 M\u0101ori were taken into State care before birth had been in State care themselves. So if we\u2019re thinking about the biases that are built into our system as well as the harm that our system has created and that we compound through interventions, this policy had a really significant role in causing harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd we are still hearing\u2014a social service provider up in Auckland was just telling me a few weeks ago about how every single day they are working with wh\u0101nau who have had their children taken or have been threatened to be taken, not because of abuse, but because of poverty and struggle to get housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo you think about this policy and where there\u2019s been a history of a child being removed and you\u2019re doing the assessment on whether that person is going to be safe, and they\u2019re struggling to find permanent housing or space for their new baby or they\u2019re struggling to pay their bills, it\u2019s an understandable leap for the social worker to go, \u201COh, actually, no. They\u2019re not going to be safe.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt puts the onus on that parent to do all the work of proving, \u201CHey look, I\u2019ve done all of these programmes, I\u2019ve got off the drugs, I\u2019ve got my family support, my abusive partner is now being dealt with by these people.\u201D\u2014to make all of the cases to overcome that inherent bias is, what we\u2019ve heard in too many reviews, just bloody impossible. And kids have been taken from loving parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve also heard is that the problem with that policy is, particularly when it\u2019s the babies that have been removed, how long it takes after they\u2019ve been removed to make your case to prove that, actually, now you\u2019re safe. This came up in the Waitangi Tribunal\u2014and it might be six months, it might be eight months, or it might be a year. And when I say those numbers in the House, that may not sound like a long time, but you think about that, the first period of life, the absolute initial bonding time, where that baby is attaching to somebody else, to another family that you have disrupted\u2014the Crown has disrupted that attachment to them and their mum and their wh\u0101nau, and the harm of that cannot be undone. So I am incredibly pleased to be seeing this policy amended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to note, too, to some of the points that were made previously, that Judge Becroft\u2019s submission to the Waitangi Tribunal about the impact of this policy\u2014and I will try and quote it here if I can find it\u2014described the provisions as \u201Cpernicious\u201D and \u201Ctotally unnecessary piece of legislation\u201D that \u201Cshould be repealed tomorrow.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EHe considered the introduction of the legislation had led to a culture shift within Oranga Tamariki that exceeded actual application of that statute, noting that more broadly, the onus of proof shifted to parents to prove their ability to safely care for subsequent children, rather than the earlier onus on Oranga Tamariki to prove a parent could not safely care for subsequent children. And go back to that conversation and think about what it would take to prove to probably a P\u0101keh\u0101 social worker for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d585f3394d034325a0e0cf96cff45780\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s so racist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87c1cc558d04776a29198bbdeba8dce\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a M\u0101ori woman struggling against poverty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224dd99f9acd74f46be8b55782b191c92\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What a racist comment to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0ed5276932b403e86b53f1198b2d5e4\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What a racist comment. Disgusting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225409ddbc2d5f467f96f9f4dd6408a5fb\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to prove to a P\u0101keh\u0101 social worker in a system that\u2019s made pre-determinations that she is going to be safe. And to try and pretend that it\u2019s inappropriate to say that when all of the data tells us\u2014ha, ha!\u2014the Waitangi Tribunal has ruled, our children\u2019s commission has come to conclusive conclusions that the system has inbuilt structural racism; I\u2019m not even going to deal with a pretence that that is not real. We need to get rid of this policy, and today is not a day too soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002253f64b2bf72746369dca8c3de0ab91cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f64b2bf72746369dca8c3de0ab91cc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 13 September 2022. Thank you for your work this week, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202209014f9097254ff2440b9bfc7356eaca388b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"