"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225005d0d5a1fe4657b9dc35d6ab604409\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 26 OCTOBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212a411429f1447e4931517d4b0b7fe25\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 26 OCTOBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002224dc83a7c8024e8fb88afed34237ca32\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f79c3fef7f1453d8abcb32ddfe0e0d3\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002298ee8678f04f4250af1aeadb0be9fc6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298ee8678f04f4250af1aeadb0be9fc6b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In celebration of Tokelau Language Week, I\u2019ve asked Barbara Edmonds to say the prayer today in Tokelauan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022aead2a94102446a3baba5c34e2bdff41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aead2a94102446a3baba5c34e2bdff41\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Te Atua Hilihili kehe, e kavatu te matou fakafetai mo na fakamanuiaga kua maua e kimatou. E tuku kehe o matou manakoga fakatetagata, kae kimatou manatuagia te Tupu ma e tatalo atu kimatou mo to fehoahoani mai ki a matou tonu e fai, ke fai ma te fakautauta, te atamai, te mea moni, loto alofa, ma te lotomaualalo, ke maua te lelei ma te filemu o te fenua nei ko Niu Hila. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022335d41cf81c2416ebd125db08d211eac\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3af07f832f945ee9bd2bf8f9a099731\u0022\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f71c261f9e8f441b9ec6d554c437d5ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f71c261f9e8f441b9ec6d554c437d5ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D ni. A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e04ca9c32412424f9eded36a0c524940\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e04ca9c32412424f9eded36a0c524940\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Robyn Parnell requesting that the House pass legislation to prohibit the importation of kangaroo meat, body parts, and skins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002215de1e9e913b4d1683618ac95dcdc9ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215de1e9e913b4d1683618ac95dcdc9ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfa1ff8948144a05a7935fab612e4d2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1ff8948144a05a7935fab612e4d2f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Reports on selected non-departmental appropriations for the year ended 30 June 2022, for the following portfolios within Vote Business, Science and Innovation: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ETourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECommerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDigital Economy and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESport and Recreation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EEconomic and Regional Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EEconomic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Growth Capital Partners Statement of Performance Expectations 2022/23.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220f05dffa07304d9aafd2e7a16a63f463\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f05dffa07304d9aafd2e7a16a63f463\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002212a212d7c32947f5815603a2f3e21e68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212a212d7c32947f5815603a2f3e21e68\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Business Committee on the recommended sitting programme for 2023 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Social Credit: Stop the Marsden Point Oil Refinery from closing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbabe0f79261455598da87b806dd1fd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbabe0f79261455598da87b806dd1fd7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report of the Business Committee is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022049c174b80224cadbd632c87130bad0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022049c174b80224cadbd632c87130bad0e\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EBusiness Payment Practices Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022053b54aa80f049efbb3e6ee04a1e222d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022053b54aa80f049efbb3e6ee04a1e222d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022018e941125b24fe18d280383f84dbbbc\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244a28915fee845f385b699026f3e5617\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221d9c73930b04376a737f8c29e0488d4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022c65741585f174c0db1cc9310c4c03468\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c65741585f174c0db1cc9310c4c03468\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4bf52de17ec4980b410ecbb3ab54c9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4bf52de17ec4980b410ecbb3ab54c9a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0101loha ni, Mr Speaker. I thank the member for the opportunity to mark five years of the Government securing better outcomes for New Zealanders. In that time, we have added 10,000 more public homes, accompanied by record high building consents and putting an end to overseas speculators rorting the property market. We\u2019re better supporting primary mental health care services with 2.3 million people now covered through primary care providers. We\u2019ve increased the number of nurses by nearly 20 percent; the number of doctors by over 20 percent. Mr Luxon, we\u2019ve lifted 66,000 children out of poverty and served more than 63 million school lunches. We\u2019ve employed 5,200 people through Mana in Mahi; 215,000 people have taken up free apprenticeships and trade training. We\u2019ve kept New Zealanders safe over COVID while delivering low unemployment and an economy that is larger than pre-pandemic. We\u2019ve also cushioned the effects of the global cost of living pressures by lowering petrol excise duty, introducing half-price public transport and the support we\u2019ve given to low and middle income New Zealanders. All of that shows why it\u2019s important to have a Government who has a well thought-through and costed plan, because the alternative of an uncosted, untested, and frankly dangerous set of proposals coming from the Opposition, like UK-style tax cuts for the wealthiest New Zealanders, would take New Zealand backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185de3943b3c41c181fef265443f3ace\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government scrap the target for shorter wait times in emergency departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f08f3c06d574ccf9e599b25a88fd276\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The previous Government\u2019s record on targets was appalling, because what they did was set targets across government that actually didn\u2019t take New Zealanders forward. In the health system, I am extremely proud of a Government that has increased health funding by 43.5 percent since 2017, has increased Pharmac\u2019s funding by 43 percent in that time, and has extended free and low-cost doctors visits to those under 14. We\u2019ve also covered 2.5 million people through mental health sessions. We\u2019ve continued to lift those in the workforce. We\u2019ve continued to support all of those at the front line. But here\u2019s the rub. The health system would have been under even more pressure if we\u2019d followed the National Party\u2019s advice and opened the borders up. That\u2019s when the health system would really have felt the pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f22d43f3b4a84da9b04d3545cf74d1aa\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that nearly one in four patients are now waiting longer than six hours to be seen at an emergency department (ED), up from just one in 10 when Labour took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220627182d2e0a491ea8ae94dc46a3b49d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The last winter in New Zealand has been one of the toughest for our health system. The National Party might want to believe that COVID never happened. The National Party might want to believe that we didn\u2019t have our first flu season for two years. But the truth is the health system withstood a one-in-100-year pandemic, and I\u2019m actually proud of our health professionals. I don\u2019t want to run them down like that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b32716949d794811964bd99ec2e9de82\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that in the six years before his Government took office, the proportion of ED patients seen within six hours was never less than 91 percent\u2014a figure Labour hasn\u2019t achieved throughout the seasons now for four straight years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259f976ef82984c03ae02cb040d1f2313\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I am aware of is a health system that we inherited that was in a complete mess, with underfunding of mental health, underfunding of public health, and underfunding of primary care. That is actually what we inherited. We know that there is always more to do in our health system, but this Government can stand proudly on a record of funding that his party can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13dfc367b0340aba67d155b790cd2c4\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he really think that, after five years in Government, Kiwis being denied healthcare because of dangerously short-staffed emergency departments are going to buy his desperate attempt to blame previous Governments for failures that are happening on his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269fb2d33c42347e98215a9a067f02c6d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I know New Zealanders see when they go into the hospitals of New Zealand is a health workforce that works incredibly hard on their behalf. They see a health workforce that has increased, in terms of doctors and nurses, by 20 percent since we\u2019ve been in office. They see a health workforce where we\u2019re actually funding the building of health infrastructure instead of the National Party who had zero dollars for two consecutive years for health infrastructure. We know it takes long-term, sustained investment to build a health system, and that is what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e278bcfa0b66445a82c99c333489a0f5\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the letter from senior staff at the previous Bay of Plenty DHB that stated that people with bowel cancer are waiting so long for treatment it is too late to cure them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209b86606f5294a23a903fe915557a3df\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Anybody who has to wait a significant amount of time for bowel cancer treatment is something that all of us should want to improve. I note that the letter covers concerns described as being 15 years of failing to plan for the health system. We have invested significantly in the area of bowel screening, with over $200 million over the last four Budgets for bowel screening. I can note for the member that when that letter was written in December 2021, 88 percent of patients in the Bay of Plenty DHB were receiving treatment for bowel cancer within a target of 31 days. By August 2022, 96 percent of patients are now receiving. We\u2019re getting on top of the problems that member ignored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f9caa52df546fdaafb14d809a1345a\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the families of people who have lost loved ones after they were denied access to lifesaving treatment due to the blow-out in wait-lists under this Government\u2019s watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214408e5176f04d258cd7e0a237a5cb88\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already said in answer to a previous supplementary question, this has been one of the most difficult winters New Zealand\u2019s health system has ever had to face: illness amongst staff, the COVID pandemic, flu breaking out all over New Zealand. What we\u2019ve done is make sure that we\u2019ve continued to invest. We keep working with all of the health authorities around New Zealand, not washing our hands, not underfunding like his Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bb9b8294b66433b93233e0ae87c96ba\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is he embarrassed that nurses in New Zealand are now reporting that they\u2019re fearful of working in our overloaded emergency departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224931850540a2464bbbc26af6fb05bc83\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I repeat what I said. We appreciate the work that our dedicated health professionals do. I\u2019ll tell you what we\u2019re doing about it, Mr Luxon\u2014we\u2019re paying them properly. We\u2019ve lifted the pay by 20 percent, whereas under that party, it flat-lined. We\u2019re making sure there\u2019s more doctors and more nurses in our hospitals: 20 percent more doctors, 20 percent more nurses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022706d70af48c24fbb9154e380068a4772\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What possible reason could the Government have for still refusing to offer overseas nurses immediate residency to come to New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229575988c1ecd46c8bfdd70e95ec4a2e9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s residency offer for nurses compares well to countries overseas. We\u2019ve seen around 400 overseas nurses become registered in New Zealand since July. We have about 500 nurses\u2019 visa applications. We\u2019re working hard to make sure that the workforce we need is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5845926c2d843819ec3ff5204a7cfa3\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Acting Prime Minister imagine anything his Government could do to make it easier for nurses to immigrate to New Zealand, and if he can imagine such a thing, when will he do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022116bf6fc8a9c41d08bcff08bbb8e4b9f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in answer to the previous question, the Government has got competitive offer when it comes to nurses coming to work in New Zealand compared to the rest of the world. We have a large number of visa applications, and we\u2019re processing them as quickly as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c93121b83b842b9bf733bc9e16ab053\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Acting Prime Minister believe New Zealand is a First World country when at least two people have died after being turned away from hospitals in the middle of our two largest cities this winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9fdc753ef2d4ce08733df13f9780719\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am proud of the way that New Zealand and New Zealanders found their way through a COVID pandemic that killed tens of thousands of people in every other country\u2014or other large countries\u2014around the world. What we did is protect New Zealanders\u2019 lives and livelihoods. In our health system, we have dedicated professionals who work hard. The member might have all the detail and all the information on those cases; I suggest he carefully works his way through and lets the investigations into them complete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d57cbe4b6f44c0798959fde8e6e0128\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that there\u2019s a serious shortage of staff in our hospitals, with frequent reports such as this from an Auckland doctor, \u201CFour nurses from our department have resigned in the last two weeks, one interventional room now closed as it can\u2019t be staffed. It just goes on.\u201D, and if he does accept that there is a serious shortage of staff in our hospitals, can he tell the House and the people of New Zealand why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce070a17290b4203b36b0aaad706ebdf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Our health system has been under enormous pressure this winter because of COVID, because of staffing shortages, some of which are a result of COVID, some of which are a result of the fact that, yes, our borders were shut. We covered in the House yesterday why that was an important thing for us to do. I repeat: there has been a 20 percent increase in the number of nurses in our hospitals under this Government\u2019s watch. If we accepted the economic policies of the Opposition, including that member, there would not be enough money to pay for those nurses. There would not be enough money to employ those nurses. We know that\u2019s true because it\u2019s what happened the last time they were in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283047edb93704252bfd107d6201ae7e0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is this Government\u2019s handling of COVID-19 a triumphant achievement or its excuse for everything that goes wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bdf4e37f87d4a109d5082bac94cf56e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am proud of the way all New Zealanders, not just the Government, responded to COVID. The results are all around us: we saved lives, we saved livelihoods in New Zealand. I don\u2019t know why the member insists on talking New Zealand down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a888ff1ad184265802513fcdca2da91\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Education (M\u0101ori Education)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022abdf15f3c24a4f398a8fd0753b44da49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abdf15f3c24a4f398a8fd0753b44da49\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education): What recent developments has he seen that support M\u0101ori students in sciences and technology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d55c46a187b64a0680c54686dcf92592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d55c46a187b64a0680c54686dcf92592\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education)):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I attended the expansion of the P\u016Bhoro Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics, and M\u0101tauranga (STEMM) academy in Te Tai Tokerau. P\u016Bhoro was established in response to low engagement of M\u0101ori in STEMM-related career pathways. It supports rangatahi M\u0101ori with a pathway into high-value careers with a transition from secondary school to tertiary programmes, including connections to internships, industry opportunities, and employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f7e980d1d8c4adba874a0847199842f\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Why are programmes like P\u016Bhoro STEMM important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255eb070d2c3248a5b1f5af3b2b9bc4a1\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The current under-representation of our people in the sciences, despite the skills of our t\u016Bpuna in these areas, attests to this; that needs to change. P\u016Bhoro STEMM is a kaupapa M\u0101ori approach that seeks to improve equitable access for rangatahi M\u0101ori into science- and technology-related pathways. We are seeing great results, with almost two-in-five P\u016Bhoro students gaining one or more science subject qualifications in 2021. This is nearly four times the science subject achievement rate for M\u0101ori in mainstream education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfe0c36f5c74761b0b2d541e5432937\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: How many students are supported by this programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f582f3385f224d88a20b3ffb3d5f85fe\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The last two years have seen significant growth for the Puhoro STEMM Academy, having engaged 1,503 rangatahi in 54 participating schools and kura across nine regions to date. The expansion into Te Tai Tokerau becomes the 10th region P\u016Bhoro supports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cbb32be7591431a932b424e97d6d4f3\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Has the programme received any national or international recognition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249abf20344ae48b5a88dd619c7c5753c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it has. P\u016Bhoro STEMM Academy has been nationally and internationally recognised for the work it does with rangatahi M\u0101ori. On a national level, it was the winner of two awards at the Diversity Awards in 2022. At an international level, P\u016Bhoro STEMM Academy is one of three finalists in the global Engineering \u0026amp; Technology Innovation Awards 2022, to be held in November in London. This award recognises organisations who harness a truly diverse workforce or inclusive ethos, recognising the significant efforts of organisations globally that excel in their commitment to equality and inclusion across the diversity spectrum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c37a9ed1b3e4aa399b30dc71f772d12\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002281cb1fafcdf549a69e3d3fddaf247200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281cb1fafcdf549a69e3d3fddaf247200\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she consider that current requirements relating to the effect of relationship status on someone\u2019s eligibility to receive a benefit are fair and equitable? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022369b8d05b6b644f4ae91bfc941f0e5c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022369b8d05b6b644f4ae91bfc941f0e5c1\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D ni, Mr Speaker. The welfare system is primarily based around income, assets, and the need of a household. We know that family structures have shifted over time. The Welfare Expert Advisory Group highlighted this in their report. I agree that further work is needed on this, and a review of settings that underpin financial assistance and eligibility is on the work programme for the welfare overhaul. However, what I am most focused on is providing immediate support for families in need. Since we\u2019ve been in Government, our changes have led to around a 40 percent increase in after - housing-cost income, inflation-adjusted, for those on a main benefit, and an increase in income of $243 per week for couples with children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d0219c11ba4d4cba78f60658004357\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that disabled people should be able to remain financially independent, no matter their relationship status, and, if not, is she putting more families in need into hardship as a result of these rules? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226120ca18c3e84c72a553979b74192787\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We do believe that disabled people should be able to live financially independently. We have moved to increase benefits through our welfare system significantly since we took office, and we have also invested in other measures to support disabled people, including being committed to the roll-out of Enabling Good Lives across the country. There is, as I said, a need for a review of relationship settings within the welfare system, and that\u2019s something that\u2019s certainly on the cards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a985e7855845e58f7e50c4aed3b389\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Will she pause investigations into issues relating to relationship status for applicants who may lose their income support as a result of these rules while she makes her review? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180206385f494c6abd6e11e08d2fd9e5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) staff have to follow the legislation as it stands now, and so there is no way that any fraud investigation can be paused. However, as the Welfare Expert Advisory Group pointed out, the system that we undertake with regards to investigations of potential fraud cases is a three-step process that is fair and reasonable, and that is the process that we will continue to follow whilst these rules are in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c6a4c8892344a9088067ac7bc3eb424\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have confidence in how the Ministry of Social Development is making determinations off the fact of relationship status, and, if so, why are MSD staff tasked with figuring out whether people are in a sexual relationship even if they are financially independent and not living together? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291dd9c97544a47d39068d985f40dc610\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I do have confidence in MSD staff. I think, though, that it would be unrealistic of me not to think that every now and then a determination they make could be wrong, and so that is why we have the review committee in place so that people can challenge those decisions if they deem them to be questionable or incorrect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208754b324d264f60a4115e519b2055c5\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the COVID-19 Income Relief Payment, which supported thousands of people who lost their jobs in 2020, have a higher threshold for a partner\u2019s income than the jobseeker benefit before partners lost their income support? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d949fcb3af384faa85a3198522c96741\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The income relief payment was not business-as-usual. It was a temporary payment that came about because of the extraordinary circumstances that we were facing with respect to COVID. Many families who did lose jobs would not have anticipated that that was going to happen. We needed to put an urgent measure in place, but, as I said, unlike our welfare system, that was temporary and we had no intention to carry that on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280301e2779aa4c7dbd0e8be62a572131\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support changing the relationship settings for main benefits to be consistent with those proposed for the income insurance scheme, which, at this time, has full, individualised support to prevent inequity between different types of support in similar circumstances? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8433ba73b734edf9bf418db6888b2e1\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, a review of relationship settings within the welfare system is something that\u2019s certainly on the cards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274d5920db8ab4d9aab1f3d0c02509254\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e648dd6d884c42e0b90cefa227766f7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e648dd6d884c42e0b90cefa227766f7c\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: M\u0101l\u014D ni. What actions is the Government taking to reduce resource consenting costs for infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002206895db0054b4db89265e595af402de2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206895db0054b4db89265e595af402de2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The current resource management system takes too long, costs too much, and has not adequately enabled housing nor infrastructure, nor managed cumulative environmental effects. An Infrastructure Commission report on consenting infrastructure projects found consenting costs for medium sized infrastructure projects have increased 150 percent in the last 10 years, to 250 percent of what they were a decade ago. Developers are collectively spending $1.29 billion on resource consent processes, or 5.5 percent of project costs\u2014benchmarked against costs in the UK and the European Union, which range from 0.1 to 5 percent of project cost. You can see we\u2019re at the extreme end. Times also increased by 150 percent. This is why we are repealing and replacing the Resource Management Act (RMA), which will improve efficiency and lower consenting costs and improve environmental outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022845e9629a5da40bcbc7e2613a9a48264\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: How will the replacement for the RMA reduce infrastructure consenting costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1619f5a60c940d2957ac70426ab94ee\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There will be major cost savings which will benefit not just the infrastructure providers but the public and private funders of the projects. Improvements will reduce the number and costs of consents. Designations for infrastructure will be simplified, with less relitigation, and designations lasting longer. The designations process will be more flexible and available to a wider group of providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022469cb2ddcb7f4ae2a4111cc150e6e497\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What work is the Infrastructure Commission doing to assist the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a208f75d0fb4cca822aca3951ad78ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A new chapter in the national planning framework to enable infrastructure is being developed by the Infrastructure Commission. It will enable standards to be used for activities associated with the likes of housing and infrastructure\u2014for example, earthworks or sediment or noise control. This will avoid the need for bespoke conditions and will also enable more activities to be permitted activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7d76f6c8fd4106b225ec403144277e\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: How will the replacement for the RMA improve district plans and reduce costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7fd6a20e3b145a7bfc16bb5ec8811da\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: RMA planning documents will be consolidated from over 100 to 15 Natural and Built Environments Act plans. Plans will be fast to prepare, reducing in time from about 10 years under the current system to a maximum of four in the new system. Plan quality will be improved by adopting the independent hearings panel approach, which was initiated by Rodney Hide when he was here. More activities will be permitted with fewer notified consents needed, and the new Act will require councils to publicly report on their performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dc1d3ea3e44d558d04f467b2489468\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a7edbce4ec403d934c68536864c342\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8fc3dd4a8894d0fab9f34916374f23e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002245ac41e77ff04a409d5eb590ce66acc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245ac41e77ff04a409d5eb590ce66acc8\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he think his job in the short term is to limit growth in spending, especially when inflation is high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002236bdce77fa4a40908b0055cd2fdfac8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236bdce77fa4a40908b0055cd2fdfac8c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. That is not the question that was lodged. The question that was lodged with me and that we have given answer to is significantly longer and different than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8394896b8436fafb6c72003b00d8c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did you read it off this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb3f64974d204907b7b7a1c85d648378\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: I did read it off the sheet. The Minister is correct; I lodged a different question. It was longer and substantially different. However, the clerks informed me they had changed the question to that which is on the sheet, which is why I\u2019ve read that. But I\u2019m happy to revert to my original question, which I far preferred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221863d2e6343942f1b6243b75972e598d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: So do I. So why don\u2019t you do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee99fe9cb335418ebf9a1f508a349988\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the question is the one written on the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3911782a95480a95f5a85e509f5e11\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I will answer the question as it is on the sheet, because that is the process we have in the House, but I think we need to reflect\u2014and perhaps we can go away and talk about it afterwards. Just after 1 p.m. today, I was advised that the member wished to change the wording of the question that had been lodged, and we had begun working on since it was lodged. My understanding was that the question wasn\u2019t going to be changed, but it\u2019s on the sheet; I\u2019ll answer it as it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb04d4410d744cf4ae340434fb5082ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There were actually two changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1055b6abf5547778df7c010ef043094\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I think the Minister of Finance has laid out what happened. You\u2019re exactly right. I think you just said\u2014that\u2019s the point I was going to make\u2014that the question was changed after it was lodged, quite substantially, and then there was an attempt to slightly alter the wording around 1 o\u2019clock, but that did not happen. And the question is as it is on the yellow question sheet. So it hasn\u2019t changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fcdb2e2bd994bc8a1eeb5a83bc5bf88\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That advice came after 1 o\u2019clock, Chris. But I said I\u2019ll answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d27f6474e5444bc297bd76e8db04d950\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: No one\u2019s acting in bad faith here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be373998f1b24c01950b6e1b82fbb613\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not substantially different, from my understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211b133d924ef49e789ed7f676b2d9bd7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333d979153dd4e3f968fa1e5bb6e1f9e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019m very happy to revert to the original question that the Minister is prepared for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba0376991d04aa2a4febf25e85f69c7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019ll have question No. 5 as written on the yellow piece of paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236681c755a2445c1bb99fd2d3b60fee1\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Finance: does he think his job in the short term is to limit growth in spending, especially when inflation is high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a4c2b7ddf8946c99aba6ac78eea5e0a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As Minister of Finance, I have many jobs, one of those is to make sure that spending that is undertaken matches what is set down in the Budget, also to make sure that it is responsible. The latest set of Treasury forecasts show that over the forecast period we are limiting growth in spending. Indeed, Government expenses are set to fall from 35 percent of GDP in the 2021-22 year, which was obviously marked by the responses to Omicron and Delta, down to 29.8 percent of GDP in 2025-26.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a181d76e615460897382e3ce6a21146\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has he read reports of the $28 million Australian Budget repair package that unwinds wasteful or unnecessary Government spending, redirecting it towards higher-quality investments and priorities, and will he take a similar approach in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64bafd60b3340848eb99f715d0927da\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve had a good read, actually, of the Budget that Dr Chalmers laid down last night. It contains a number of interesting things. I look forward to the member endorsing the wellbeing approach of the Government there, getting up to a 45 cent top tax rate, investing in fair pay agreement - type work, all of which is in that legislation. What I do note is that, obviously, the Australian Government will make decisions appropriate for Australia, but in the Budget itself, actual expenses across the forecast period in fact increase as a percentage of GDP in the Australian Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afb84a65ccc446ea8b9f7a3a7098219\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government prioritising a $370 million merger of TVNZ and RNZ, $35 million subsidising people to buy Teslas, and $60 million to design a jobs tax when New Zealand is in the midst of a cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0cda81127944f69917aab481efcebb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the member is well aware, we have taken a number of significant steps to address the cost of living pressures that New Zealanders are feeling. We also, at the same time, think it\u2019s kind of important to address an issue like climate change and actually make sure that we decarbonise our transport fleet. The member obviously can\u2019t walk and chew gum at the same time; we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e062160adb4612bdbf556d8f6e4a85\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How does subsidising New Zealand\u2019s wealthiest people to buy Teslas help with climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229904f63f82f4abcbd24a574ad77c7cb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Making sure that we have fewer internal combustion engine vehicles on the road and more electric vehicles on the road is a good thing. I know that the National Party\u2019s approach on climate change is to deny and delay and defer; not us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4da83bf1b94168a9da1a9c95a2ba58\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister think the woman who has switched her diet to shakes to cut her grocery bill would feel about him getting up in this House to defend the wealthiest New Zealanders getting subsidies to buy Teslas as his response to climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208a5c0b0fe2c4541b89dbc174036bf93\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m thrilled the member\u2019s raised the topic of the wealthiest New Zealanders. I wonder what the woman in that article would think about a political party who thinks the highest priority right now is to cut the tax of the wealthiest New Zealanders, because that\u2019s the National Party\u2019s policy. It\u2019s the member who should be ashamed and apologising to that woman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2572c1232134cde84b078da40a0d75a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that over the last year, the average emissions of new vehicles coming into New Zealand has declined by 19 percent under the Clean Car Discount policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f61874ad83749009a8066db8548900a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely can confirm that, and I can confirm this Government\u2019s commitment to decarbonising our transport fleet. On this side of the House, we believe that it is perfectly possible to support New Zealanders through a cost of living crisis while at the same time getting on with dealing to an existential threat to our planet. The National Party has never wanted to take action on climate change and nothing has changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810140ee2f864ea2a980cb5a272f6a8f\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why are New Zealanders\u2019 real wages lower today than when Labour came to office, and isn\u2019t it the case that, just as the Australian Labor Party has shown in the last day, a responsible Government can rein in wasteful spending, deliver tax relief, and repair the country\u2019s finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a318deeb5fb543e3ba6be72f40a3ae2f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has a plan to get New Zealand into surplus quicker than the National Party did after the global financial crisis. We\u2019re keeping our levels of debt low. Our unemployment is one of the lowest in the OECD. Here in New Zealand, our Government knows that it is about striking a balance. That member thinks it\u2019s about giving tax cuts to the wealthiest New Zealanders; we think it\u2019s about supporting all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294d89968ced34df0ab8d090c6fda7edd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Tourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00222aef43a592a442ada328dc9bbb378b76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aef43a592a442ada328dc9bbb378b76\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: What reports has he seen on New Zealand\u2019s tourism recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9a5ed44fb024998a364970488044e9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9a5ed44fb024998a364970488044e9b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to report that New Zealand is set for a strong summer as the tourism sector continues to recover. It is encouraging that August 2022 was the first month in nearly 2\u00BD years where a holiday has been the most popular reason for travel by overseas visitors, replacing visiting friends and relatives, which has dominated the reason for travel from April 2020. The August numbers show that demand for New Zealand is still there from international tourists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022407a8db1411445e7a9977924168e6a07\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: What is contributing to New Zealand\u2019s tourism recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa4f4d14d854fe6a351fcf948821fdd\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the cruise summer season\u2019s already under way, with over 40 cruise vessels expected over the 2022-23 season, bringing an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 visitors to our shores. Our Great Walks, which opened on Monday, have seen close to 20 percent of bookings made by international visitors, bringing yet more visitors to our regions to see our stunning natural beauty and experience local Kiwi hospitality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b804f80cabf8410bbdb0fffdb529f1e3\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: What economic benefits will cruise passengers bring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0eee037da14ccb84fb4b255074784e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s projected that between $350 million and $510 million will be spent over the 2022-23 summer period by cruise passengers. Regional ports, too, will benefit. Timaru, for example, will be seeing 12 cruise ships over the next year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6c28d93ef148f1bba02e7fdb08c7b0\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Timaru?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec3d95054c146beb6d3ab3880ce4f15\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Timaru, yes\u2014and Stewart Island will see 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4a1891e15549e69a4154b9f48df36a\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: What major events will help bring tourists into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc8a3824ad5346b686dc4ca406ef864e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Major events are returning to New Zealand at pace. For example, the FIFA Women\u2019s World Cup tournament alone is projected to bring tens of thousands of visitors to our shores, especially now we know we\u2019ll be hosting reigning world champs the United States. There are some huge events hitting regional New Zealand this year. For example, Rotorua will host SIX60, the Whaka100 Mountain Bike Marathon, and Crankworx, all before the end of the year. These visitors will inject much-welcomed money into the sector through accommodation, transport, food, and meals, not to mention visits to our beautiful tourist attractions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022495f7001b88c43f8a74c7e26147791c5\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: What support has the Government provided to the tourism sector throughout the pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a84bc74d314a819a824aa800ce6c3c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve always acknowledged the tough times that the tourism sector has had over the past few years. The Government has invested more than $600 million to help the industry through COVID and help them set up for the return of international tourists. New Zealand\u2019s borders are open, international bookings are flowing in, and we\u2019re set for a cracker summer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfb4fad8009541f6b6ae1d4d373a5e2a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00229307c46709a04169a000c95d919f3991\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229307c46709a04169a000c95d919f3991\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What reports, if any, has he received regarding the death of Malachi Subecz in State care and what specific actions, if any, has he taken in response to those reports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e49ca31f7d364a8d9f3d08b7ccc44b75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e49ca31f7d364a8d9f3d08b7ccc44b75\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m yet to receive the practice review from Oranga Tamariki as I\u2019m waiting for this report to be finalised and to ensure that Oranga Tamariki has been able to engage with the wh\u0101nau at their pace before any findings are shared. I\u2019m determined to understand where Oranga Tamariki could have and should have done better and to make sure it doesn\u2019t happen again. That\u2019s why I asked for these reviews to be done. It\u2019s important to remember that Malachi was not in the care of Oranga Tamariki. Reports of concern were made to Oranga Tamariki regarding his safety and Oranga Tamariki recognise their failures to act appropriately on these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293364aa8edac4d81b46c7692147df8a1\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen or received the draft system review report and, when he does, when will it be made public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea384d5a63044fe7981db818a4cfcd56\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299b5c2e3a2b641c58ba1474e96411251\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept the need to overhaul the reports of concern process given there was a failure to investigate multiple reports of concerns regarding Malachi at various levels of Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022834be4c10e3845a8b52826bf07753306\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I expect that\u2019ll be addressed in the practice review report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220165047fac88452a863162194672fff8\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that Malachi\u2019s wh\u0101nau contacted his office to report to him the abuse that he was suffering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227947975657df43bebbc4ca1625b94728\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that someone in my office was contacted on 3 November 2021 by a member of Malachi\u2019s wh\u0101nau. Concerns were raised that day with Oranga Tamariki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263f6e160c74460abc38c755edc44f52\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Who in the Government is responsible when children in State care, or trying to get State care, die?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5d36e726e5461caa1a8f81e30ac579\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that depends. First of all, the person who actually killed the child is the person responsible, but we have to make sure that we look under every stone to find out where the system may have gone wrong, which is why we\u2019ve also asked for a system review as well as the practice review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e51acd9139341f28fe0df48d7162b37\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00224ea53f2f1a314bcbaf6cccbd598ac45e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ea53f2f1a314bcbaf6cccbd598ac45e\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: M\u0101l\u014D ni, Mr Speaker. What changes is the Government making to counter-terrorism laws?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff81209ad5f947bb8a8e0f8463578967\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff81209ad5f947bb8a8e0f8463578967\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced that the Government will be strengthening our counter-terrorism laws through changes to the control orders and terrorist designations regime. These changes will improve the effectiveness of the law and make it harder for people who are known threats to undertake terrorist activities. I\u2019d like to thank, as well, just all parties for their constructive engagement on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill, and I look forward to members\u2019 contributions at first reading this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b9c3c5843a4e66bb6a162077604ec3\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What amendments are being made to the terrorist designation scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216725d930f8e43ee91a8688d67d452a0\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: The bill strengthens the terrorist designation scheme by making it explicit that it covers individuals in prisons. Overseas, we have seen examples of how, in prison, terrorists continue to attempt to influence and incite others from behind bars. The bill makes a series of technical changes to further reduce any ability for designated entities to be glorified or to support others in carrying out acts of terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff04dc2bade45769031f55566102d38\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What amendments are being made to the control orders regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155f9d2906094080824a12d9d7969ec3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: The bill makes changes related to convictions for objectionable publications, home detention and community-based sentences, greater judicial discretion, and more flexible name suppression requirements. In addition, these amendments will improve the effectiveness of the control orders Act and expand the criteria for high-risk individuals who can be covered by the restrictions which limit their ability to undertake an attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e47dd90962b4a08b261122c26875ba1\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government consider further changes to the control orders regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283024bc7c17b4ed09e432acf1ed2b0a3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: The control orders regime is subject to a statutory review scheduled for 2023. This is timely, given that this is a technical and emerging area of law in New Zealand. Further changes can be considered during that review period to ensure the regime is working effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272e8b33bb0104658a739fbc53eb05b3e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022f77341477125456aab107d8330179028\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f77341477125456aab107d8330179028\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many people with bowel cancer at Tauranga Hospital are estimated to have progressed from curative to palliative treatment plans due to patients having been on the waiting list for months longer than the recommended times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002211e23256c629445c88b51c174a6f1e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e23256c629445c88b51c174a6f1e1b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The member\u2019s question relates to a letter written by a number of clinicians last year, at what was then the Bay of Plenty District Health Board, to their chief executive at the time, regarding concerns about what they described as 15 years of failing to plan for the health needs of that region, as well as other issues. That 15-year period encompasses the entire time the previous National Government held office. The letter was subsequently passed to Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand when the new health system took effect. One of the statements made in December last year, in that letter, was that \u201CPatients are being diagnosed with bowel cancer, having been on our waiting lists for months longer than the recommended times, and this is leading to palliative rather than curative treatment plans.\u201D Officials have advised me that the only way to answer the member\u2019s question would be a manual review of every patient\u2019s clinical notes. Even if a meaningful assessment could be made in each case, the member\u2019s question has no time frame on it, and it is therefore not possible to answer. What I can tell the member is this: in December 2021, when the letter was sent, 88 percent of patients in the Bay of Plenty District Health Board region who received treatment for upper and lower gastrointestinal tumours did so within the target of 31 days. Secondly, in the most recent reported period, ending in August 2022, 96 percent of patients in that region received treatment within 31 days, and this compares to 88 percent nationally. It\u2019s important to note both that the rates of bowel cancer diagnosis have been trending upwards while diagnosis in emergency departments has been declining. I am advised that this is almost certainly because of the success of the National Bowel Screening Programme, which this Government has invested $203 million into after the previous Government didn\u2019t properly fund it, and which we have now rolled out nationwide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8e7b616b0646fb864d7c4bc0e6cfb6\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that only cancer patients who were able to receive chemotherapy were offered a cancer specialist appointment at Tauranga Hospital and others went to their GP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243fab6a425fc49b1a7594ba0696806ed\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t comment on that, but given that member\u2019s long track record of getting his facts wrong, I would say it\u2019s more likely wrong than right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204fed1d599d34d05be645dbe58543fae\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the letter that he just reported to in his first answer, from medical oncology, saying that only patients who are to receive chemotherapy are offered first specialist assessment; all other patients are to be managed by a GP, without the opportunity to discuss their case with a specialist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221775766c51974892907d9d92d886b8fa\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I point out, and the member is well aware, that the letter was addressed to the then chief executive of the Bay of Plenty District Health Board and, effectively, called upon that chief executive to remedy a number of issues. But the letter was also very clear that the issues that they were dealing with, as many clinicians today are dealing with, is the consequence of a system that was routinely underfunded for many, many years, including the entirety of the previous Government\u2019s period of time. The reason we are making the changes we are is that we needed to see change and improved performance. This Government inherited a bowel screening programme that had such limited funding and no chance of being rolled out nationwide. We have now committed more than $200 million. We now have a nationwide bowel screening programme that is making a significant difference, because, when it comes to the National Party, they are all talk and no trousers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227434951cd64a4ee29155af80332be756\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the chair of his waiting list task force say on TV ONE last night that targets were a distraction; yet, as the acting medical officer of Counties Manukau, in the board meeting of 23 February this year, that same person accepted a report titled Metrics that matter, describing surgical targets, and why, then, were targets metrics that mattered in February but, at the Minister\u2019s task force stand-up yesterday, the exact same targets are now a distraction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a290790247450c9adbc8403abcc6a7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: So that question just demonstrates the sheer and utter confusion that that member dwells in. I think the main point is this: it is widely accepted by many clinicians that targets are not a plan. Targets don\u2019t deliver service. Targets don\u2019t improve services. What you need is a plan. The National Party thinks that if you have a target, magically things will happen. What we do know, from the 2019 research into the National Party health targets, is that they were manipulated and dodged and did not deliver good healthcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6e6fb69659426da6ba3217df6f7efd\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Did he support the COVID vaccination target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e4a82bf08846229f0f5c131b29fee5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: This Government follows clinical advice, and there is epidemiological research that says that in order to reach a level of herd immunity, there is a level that you have to reach, and we followed that clinical advice. But, when we are running services, when we are operating services, we focus on having a plan and resourcing it, not like the National Party that declares they\u2019re going to do bowel screening, doesn\u2019t resource it, doesn\u2019t fund it, and lets it flounder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257d03a24a5f349259134a5f7abef1119\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u002255cb08f489af475786a965fa88bfd6dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255cb08f489af475786a965fa88bfd6dc\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: M\u0101l\u014D ni. What recent announcement has the Government made regarding maternal mental health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c814460f99af497daccba114f84ae7a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c814460f99af497daccba114f84ae7a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this month, I announced our investment of $10.1 million over four years in maternal mental health. This will result in better and more widely available care for new and expectant mothers around the country. The funding will ensure that children, mothers, and wh\u0101nau can access specialist services around New Zealand, and access to appropriate M\u0101ori services will be improved. These investments continue to build on the funding from the 2019 Wellbeing Budget, which invested in front-line mental health and addiction services and other early interventions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d608a5095dc645af90d71a3c83ea53fb\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How will this address gaps in maternal mental health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ceef7c4d7044f718631643c4d7c61ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: The funding will be invested to fill gaps in care identified by last year\u2019s maternal mental health stocktake. In particular, it will target support in the regions where it is needed most. The $10.1 million will add more clinical and non-clinical staff, as well as packages of care to provide more support to wh\u0101nau with higher needs, including home-based supports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229697a27640fe4ae8818a6269fdad736d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important to invest in maternal mental health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267b9c0d959a4050b46567028cce223e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Supporting parents\u2019 mental wellbeing during their child\u2019s first 1,000 days is important for the long-term emotional, mental, and physical wellbeing of the child. Support for perinatal mental health that is accessible for all pregnant or post-natal women when they need it most is also key. It is estimated that the care packages from this investment will help support approximately 700 people per year following the fourth year of investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf096c03187a45f098561586f5f640b3\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How does this complement other initiatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb79e5b1041b484f891f4f68c5384a10\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is committed to ensuring parents receive the support they need during pregnancy, birth, and in the post-natal period, so as to make New Zealand the best place to be a child. This investment complements several other initiatives rolled out by the Government to support mothers in the post-natal period, including the Well Child Tamariki Ora enhanced support pilots, pregnancy and parenting services, and recognition of maternal birth injuries by ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022586da4c28d4a441280eea66e3fd986a3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Education (School Operations)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce5c7e968a8a41c995f5a6ee3ef397d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce5c7e968a8a41c995f5a6ee3ef397d7\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (School Operations): What percentage of decile 1 students achieved each assessment in the 2022 NCEA Numeracy and Literacy pilot, and what specific questions, if any, were not culturally \u201Cappropriate\u201D in this pilot, as she claimed yesterday in question time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002231117b6fb92c4b5e966304e1c12c0030\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231117b6fb92c4b5e966304e1c12c0030\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education (School Operations)):\u003C/span\u003E In regards to the first part of the question: in reading, 195 students participated, with 24.1 percent achieving; in writing, 135 students participated, with 2.2 percent achieving; and in numeracy, 179 students participated, with 10.1 percent achieving. Now, these numbers stand in stark contrast to the decile 10 students, who achieved 84 percent, 61 percent, and 77 percent, respectively. This does point towards the Government\u2019s approach to tackling inequity in the system through our barrier-free access suite being the right one when combined with targeted plans to lift maths and literacy attainment across the country. In regards to the second part of the question: as I said in the House yesterday, feedback we have received from some teachers who participated in the pilot was that\u2014in their professional opinion, which I will not second-guess\u2014the assessment wasn\u2019t culturally appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4c4f4b48014f479194d1f861eecf6b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I think you know what I\u2019m about to say, which is that the second part of the question is extremely specific, which is about the specific questions, if any, that were not culturally appropriate in this pilot. And as the next part is \u201Cas she claimed yesterday in question time\u201D, which has been authenticated and accepted\u2014it\u2019s on the yellow sheet\u2014the Minister is required to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030b8725878c4d988acbfd6e00999168\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Minister should\u2014you definitely addressed it, but considering the answer that you gave yesterday, you haven\u2019t answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c0d02fe69841fb85ab9d4dfd57d7bc\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already said, it\u2019s important that we consider the views of all stakeholders and experts. And as Minister, it would be completely inappropriate of me to second-guess their opinions. About half the teachers who participated in the pilot thought the assessment wasn\u2019t equitable for all learners in reference to the content. I will not second-guess their opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c4ce05d04bc412bb9e26a43b717b5a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute; I\u2019m going to read exactly what was said yesterday. I\u2019m going to give the member two extra questions, and she can ask questions around that, if she wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b368c857044a509d1b2262e17c6314\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Can she please provide us with one example of the type of question that she believes, or she was told about, that was culturally inappropriate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b8e475ba37b4597a3b9e160ee8ddc0d\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said yesterday, as a former teacher\u2014and you\u2019ve asked about the type of question\u2014we know that some students, if you put the reading text in front of them and they don\u2019t understand the context, they will struggle to attempt to solve the issue that was put in front of them\u2014as I\u2019ve said, if they don\u2019t understand the context. Obviously, we have people on the other side of the aisles here who don\u2019t understand education at that level. So let me give a specific example. When I was a teacher, there was a PM reader called \u201CTreasure Hunt\u201D. Many times we\u2019ve struggled with our young people understanding the word \u201Cclues\u201D because they had no context of what a \u201Ctreasure hunt\u201D was. That\u2019s an example of what that might be in that assessment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228be64df417c9432eafe4b6f7a8f20c75\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Is she seriously saying that she doesn\u2019t expect 15-year-olds, after 10 years of compulsory schooling, to be able to use the knowledge they\u2019ve gained to write about something they may have not experienced firsthand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6cfb46c7dd451f86c3425553511188\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I think that if people even in this House had to look at an area that they had not been involved with\u2014and obviously I can use the example of education, because that\u2019s very obvious from the questions that are coming from the other side\u2014they would struggle to write about it at the in-depth level. We need to contextualise learning. It is a fundamental part of education to contextualise it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bfbc086bc164c1f82d1e8b717fcd881\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Would she expect somebody who had never been on a marae before to be able to stand up and write about an experience or understand the experience of being on a marae?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107e7845f952414e8d90cc876456e4b8\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a very good question, because, no, I wouldn\u2019t. I would actually, if I was a teacher in that situation, want to contextualise that with our young people first. I\u2019d also want to contextualise it with adults first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022879bae436a4a42be82b43c2dc1c441ea\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: What specific support will she implement next year for the 98 percent of decile 1 students that failed the co-requisite to ensure they pass this foundational literacy and numeracy assessment before they leave school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c8a746bab08480d91326d05ebd91bbc\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve already announced some work in this area with our $20 million loss of learning package, and that will work towards and go towards assisting those pupils who are struggling in this area with targeted tutoring. Already, a number of schools have taken that up and are reporting early on that; they can see that this will be a support to them. But this is also something that I want to talk about with the teachers a bit more, because they are the experts in this area about how we can support them as a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f2d88020bb4fcf9440997584d069b1\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of questions in the numeracy exam were not culturally appropriate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd9907a5bbd4ddeac0664a6a6f8ddec\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We have heard from teachers that there has been a lot of reading in those exams. And if you are an English learner who is second language and struggling to read, it doesn\u2019t give you an accurate understanding of your numeracy level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252652e6693874dd2878085ac5901aa99\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it her Government and under her watch that the Ministry of Education set these exams and have piloted them now twice; and why is it that she is standing up here today telling us that they are not appropriate for children who are unable to read?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e671eaa2a164ace957fcc5fee32c4ba\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s exactly what a pilot is. I\u2019m not sure that the member understands the concept of a pilot, but it\u2019s to work through what these exams will look like. What I will say is that this Government is committed to our young people achieving and the integrity of the exam remaining high. To question that integrity is a little bit concerning from the Opposition, who have in the past put in failed experiments as their answer to declining levels of literacy and numeracy over the past few decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022957d38475f9e4087b39a80d6e29bf49c\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: How is she going to ensure that the exams are culturally appropriate to cater for the many different cultures in this country; and is she considering multiple different exams based on the culture of the person taking the exam?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc5abba7cbb846438721090b6bc9b926\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s exactly what the pilots are for. And I am concerned the member\u2019s understanding of that word \u201Cculture\u201D seemed to go straight to race, and I am not prepared to be race-baited by that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc9ec7467d94cc6a5d9abbd5cf5d614\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. We have been listening very carefully to the Associate Minister\u2019s answers. That\u2019s now the fourth time, in response to very straight, very serious questions about a matter of extreme public importance, that the Minister has had a political flick\u2014in the most recent case, an unparliamentary flick\u2014at the Opposition. My colleague Erica Stanford is asking very serious questions in a very straight manner, and she\u2019s entitled to expect straight answers, not political attacks, from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e67f809ba04baa811807f95ab8eb2b\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I take Mr Bishop\u2019s point. However, I also take the rulings that you\u2019ve made in recent days. Throughout the Minister\u2019s answer, there were interjections, continuously, from members opposite, and in that environment it is highly unsurprising that there might be some political flicks coming back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365bfc53de1b414fb70d2a082bd77f59\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, whether or not that is the case, nothing excuses a Minister breaching Speaker\u2019s ruling 44/1 by accusing a member of race-baiting, which is strictly prohibited in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022026da935657d48c8828f0563373358b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2014that is absolutely correct, and on that matter I will require the Minister to stand, withdraw, and apologise. On the issues raised by Chris Bishop, that\u2019s also correct. I\u2019ve listened carefully. There were elements of out-of-order interjections, yes, but the questions were straight up. They were straight-up questions, and they did not need some of the comments that were made, but on the last one, that was definitely out of order, and so I will require the Minister to stand, withdraw, and apologise. I will award one more supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f2fd1716bb9426e953f30725295291a\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281263f385cf6486b91ec06abe143a9c1\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the purpose of education is to expand a child\u2019s mind outside of their own localised experiences, and, if not, how does she ever expect New Zealand children to succeed on the world stage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf99cc7c9d84d308888e111fa6c2dfc\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we are putting these pilots in place: to improve our education system so our children will not only survive but thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c0d99d8f96e433db0ddd45c8791dbc5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00222e9b4869f1914258948903e53aba4908\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e9b4869f1914258948903e53aba4908\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with the statement from the Te P\u016Bkenga organisational direction and design - analysis of feedback report that said \u201CLegislation that only allows one CE is a risk to a Tiriti-partnering model\u201D; if so, is he considering amending the Education and Training Act 2020 to allow for co-leadership as a way of honouring the Treaty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb751eb998af4f9ca7910e40a0f2a1fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb751eb998af4f9ca7910e40a0f2a1fb\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Education: No and no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233425783fc414b769822c3395ffff6ab\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned with a statement from the Tertiary Education Commission\u2019s mid-August briefing that states \u201Cthe overall failure of Te P\u016Bkenga to progress key areas of work over the past two years means it will be some time before the key benefits sought from the establishment of Te P\u016Bkenga will be realised.\u201D, and, if so, does the Minister believe that implementing more co-governance will help to realise these benefits sooner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f686a40c2147d8ba1f817dffb6e491\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: On the second part to that question, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a9eb0e2ba2484bb9c3bb4efdac27b4\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with one respondent quoted in Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s analysis and feedback report, who said that \u201Cnot having M\u0101ori at the chief executive level is an \u2018imbalance in mana\u2019 \u201D, and does he believe that addressing an \u201Cimbalance in mana\u201D is more important than addressing Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s $110 million debt crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a4db3582004fe589f7195e63967469\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224bf8559ec094244ba7458012b170d8f\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Which problem does the Minister believe Te P\u016Bkenga Council should be focusing on: addressing Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s $110 million debt crisis or hiring more bureaucrats, such as co-leadership positions for executive directors, in the name of co-governance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e952a5a6682d4b9fb98544c8ac6cfca7\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: No discussions have been had around co-leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d08c253a550848d288f7192f4f2028b2\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022068e37eb1b7740caa6a973616e5522da\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022352009869f5c4870b1ce81e2a2f5cd75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022352009869f5c4870b1ce81e2a2f5cd75\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWell, Mr Speaker, you are no doubt a very well-read man, and I\u2019m sure that you are very familiar with the tale of the emperor\u2019s new clothes, because, as the story goes, two con men promise a prideful emperor a fabulous new suit of clothes. That emperor then parades before his subjects in his non-existent suit until a boy cries out, \u201CBut he isn\u2019t wearing anything at all!\u201D And then, when the crowd realise the child is right, they roar in laughter. However, the very sad thing is that the emperor continues on his parade because the turn back would be foolish and wrong. Well, here in New Zealand in 2022, the Labour Government is the emperor, and it has for five years\u2014five long years\u2014paraded through town telling people that they care, telling people to be kind, and telling people that they are going to deliver. And, while the people at court in the Labour Party on the other side praise their emperor, the crowds outside of this place are pointing and what they\u2019re saying is they can see five years of failure: a Government that spends more, it hires more, and it uniquely and unbelievably delivers worse in every area across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at some of these failures; let\u2019s look at why the emperor has no clothes, because it couldn\u2019t be clearer. Let\u2019s look at the story on the economy because it\u2019s very simply five years of failure: inflation at 7.2 percent, the highest in 32 years; real wages down 4 percent; no one can get ahead; everyone\u2019s going backwards, and there\u2019s no plan to deal with it from the other side. We\u2019ve got mortgage interest rates at record levels. We\u2019ve got interest rates going higher than they need to be, because this Government\u2019s addicted to spending an extra billion dollars more each and every week. At the same time, they\u2019re collecting almost $15,000 more per household in tax, but they won\u2019t give it back to Kiwis to keep in their own pocket, to spend and save as they see fit. Instead, what do we get? We got a rinky-dink band-aid idea called a \u201Ccost of living payment\u201D that went to dead people. And what I would say to you: that is the sign of an utterly incompetent Government if you just can\u2019t even give the money away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the story on health? Well, it\u2019s five years of failure there too, because every single health metric has gone backwards, every single wait-list time has got worse, and we have 200,000 Kiwis now on a health-related wait-list. We have a health workforce at breaking point; 4,000 nurses are needed and we can\u2019t even fast track them through an immigration process. Meanwhile, we spend money building up a massive bureaucracy when we should be spending it on the front-line healthcare services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the story on crime? Well, I can tell you it\u2019s a familiar refrain: it\u2019s five years of failure. Violent crime up 21 percent, assaults up 31 percent, gang membership up 50 percent, ram raids up 500 percent. And what we have is a Labour Government soft on crime, and I can tell you National\u2019s going to support the police and we are going to tackle gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the story on housing? Well, it is five years of failure. Homeownership is down. Remember KiwiBuild\u20141.4 percent of the hundred thousand houses have been built. Now, if you can\u2019t own a home, you have to rent a home, and rents are up $140 a week. And, if you are not lucky enough to rent a home, you end up going on the State house waiting list, and that\u2019s up four times. And, if it\u2019s really grim, you end up not getting a State house; you\u2019re in emergency housing. And 4,000 kids woke up in a motel accommodation today; a million dollars a day is what it\u2019s costing us. And, if you can\u2019t get emergency accommodation, where do you go? You end up living in your car, and that is four times worse than it was when this Government came to power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the story on education? It\u2019s five years of failure. This is a developed country, and we have 54 percent of our kids not making school regularly. We have 100,000 kids chronically absent from school. And then, if you are lucky enough to make it through the front gates, we\u2019ve got record low, abysmal levels of academic achievement. Here we are in New Zealand and 98 percent of our kids in decile 1 schools failed to pass the most basic writing tests. This is New Zealand; we don\u2019t do that any further. That\u2019s not transforming lives; that\u2019s actually a social failure. It\u2019s a moral failure, and it\u2019s a future economic crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the story from the emperor\u2019s new clothes? What\u2019s the moral that comes out of it? Well, it\u2019s pretty simple: just saying it\u2019s so doesn\u2019t make it so. Pride becomes a fall, and karma gets you in the end. And I want to tell you, speaking of karma, the New Zealand people are going to be able to say next year \u201Cthe emperor has no clothes\u201D and they\u2019re going to elect a National Government that wants to put the country back on track, that will deliver, and that is going to take New Zealand forward incredibly positively. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e637371568f941168fb208ed349586fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e637371568f941168fb208ed349586fa\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E This week, I want to wish one and all a very, very happy Labour Day, although I do pass on to the Leader of the Opposition my thoughts and prayers as he has to deal with the trauma and shared mental dislocation of living through a public holiday that he wants to abolish. And, at the same time, I do wish to pass on my apologies to him for the fact that, just days before that, we made an announcement about investing in the national ticketing solution for public transport, given, as we know, that he thinks that public transport should \u201CStand on its own two feet without any support from Government\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut, as we celebrate Labour Day this week, the big win for working people is this Government moving forward and reaching that manifesto commitment of legislating for fair pay agreements (FPAs) for the working people of New Zealand. They are about stopping the race to the bottom and closing the door on a 30-year experiment with low wages that that party on the other side of the House has never been able to move beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements are about a new dawn for the people who clean our offices, who clean this Parliament, who drive the buses around our cities, who care for our old people, and who teach our youngest children. Fair pay agreements\u2014so clearly, in this House, as they have made their way through\u2014are also a marker of values and a marker of priorities because, while this Government stands by low and middle income people and is always looking for how we can improve life for them, the focus on that side of the House is on how they can shovel tax cuts, as much as possible, to the wealthy few. I\u2019ve been doing a few figures on this one because sometimes you can work out how values translate into real-world facts and figures, and this is worth understanding because it makes it pretty stark. That party over there, every single member on that side of the House would give themselves an $8,000 tax cut\u2014that\u2019s what they would give themselves: an $8,000 tax cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWell, as it would happen, as it happens, it would take a minimum wage worker, like a cleaner, earning a full-time wage between Labour Day and the end of the year to earn the $8,000 that they would give themselves at the stroke of a pen. And it gets worse, for were Mr Luxon\u2014God forbid\u2014to be the Prime Minister in a position to do that, he would be giving himself an $18,000 tax cut that would take a minimum wage worker five months to earn. That is the difference between this side of the House, who stands with working New Zealanders, and that side of the House, who stands for unfunded tax cuts to the wealthy few. And that is the choice that New Zealanders face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe increases to the minimum wage that this Government, this Labour Government, has delivered to the lowest-income New Zealanders since 2017\u2014those people who worked so hard up and down our country\u2014$218 more per week in their pockets. Mr Luxon\u2019s tax cut would give himself a tax cut of $346 per week. And so let\u2019s get past\u2014let\u2019s get past\u2014the fine words and the pearl clutching about cost of living and how it impacts low and middle income earners, from that side of the House, because the policies that they would advance, the values that they actually stand for are all about the needs of those at the top, and would do nothing\u2014would do nothing\u2014for those on the low and middle incomes in New Zealand that this Government is supporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAnd that is such a clear choice for New Zealanders, and it just goes on and on because every single policy that this Government puts in place to support working people is opposed by that side of the House. The minimum wage: opposed by National. FPAs: opposed by National. A Matariki public holiday: opposed by National. Ten days\u2019 sick leave in the middle of a global pandemic: opposed by National. Our investment in working people through more apprenticeships for our young people to give them skills and training; cheaper doctors\u2019 visits for our kids; free lunches for our kids in schools put through by Labour Budgets: opposed by National. And that is because that side of the House continues to have a narrow, zero-sum game of investing in working people where they always see it as a cost; we see it as an investment, on the side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo, as we celebrate Labour this day, I say thank you to the working people of this country for everything that you contribute. Fair pay agreements, this week, will make a real difference. This is a Labour Government that backs working people every step of the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00225146324b15904b8698ced3f0abece89a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225146324b15904b8698ced3f0abece89a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Everyone in our country should be able to make ends meet. Everyone should have enough to live a decent life. The Green Party has a vision where everyone in New Zealand has a warm, dry, affordable home to live in. Of course, that is absolutely achievable; everyone should have enough to be able to put healthy kai on the table and the ability to get around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, there are two stories coming out of the pandemic. Right now, we seem rampant inflation, a cost of living crisis\u2014how does that play out for ordinary New Zealanders? There is a family in South Auckland\u2014probably many families\u2014who are renting. Their home is not sufficiently insulated, there is no State support, necessarily, to insulate that unless the owner chooses to do so. It may not even have curtains in the bedroom, and, in the winter, the temperature can get quite cold. The quality of the house means the kids are more likely to be sick, to miss school, to have to visit the hospital. This family was making their energy payments, they are making every electricity power payment. However, that meant that they didn\u2019t have enough to go to the supermarket and buy food. And so they had to go visit food banks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAt the very same time that these families are struggling with these terrible choices\u2014to have to choose between paying the electricity bill, being in a cold, unhealthy home, or putting food on the table\u2014we see companies in New Zealand\u2014the supermarkets, the energy companies, the petrol companies\u2014making record profits. Now, you can\u2019t tell me that there\u2019s not a connection between rising prices and record profits in sectors where we know there are a few big players wielding market power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the solution to this? I mean, Government is there to make this system fair, and we can do that. It doesn\u2019t benefit all of New Zealanders to have supermarkets and energy companies and petrol companies and the banks raking in record profits. It\u2019s super-profit. It\u2019s excess profit. There is a difference between making a living\u2014an honest living\u2014and making a killing by ripping people off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think New Zealanders can tell that right now, during this time of inflation, no, the culprit isn\u2019t the Government. Government is investing in public services\u2014obviously there\u2019s areas where we differ in some of the focus on projects and there are different trade-offs that the Greens would make. However, we need Government to be investing in core public services like our health system, our education system. We need better water infrastructure; we need public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo what are the solutions? Well, firstly, we need a fairer tax system. If we know that there are record profits\u2014and I can go through what these are. So, of course, even the Commerce Commission study found that supermarkets were making excess profit of $1 million a day\u2014$1 million a day. Meanwhile, we look at the big \u201Cgen-tailers\u201D\u2014the big energy companies that generate power and retail this\u2014and I know they do a lot of good work, and there\u2019s good people working in those companies, but the system means that they are incentivised to maximise their profit. As at August, Meridian is up 55 percent, Mercury is up 42 percent, and Genesis is up from a $31 million profit to $221 million\u2014a nearly 600 percent increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, when those companies are making such huge profits we know there is a problem, and it\u2019s ordinary New Zealanders that are getting ripped off. At the supermarket, on their electricity bills, and on their petrol bills. But there are things that the Government can do about this, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EFirstly, we want to make sure the tax system is fair; that there\u2019s not this ability or an incentive to rip people off, to make super profits. That\u2019s something that we can change. The Green Party is calling for those sorts of changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOther ideas for Government solutions: firstly, we need to have regulations around housing. I know we have healthy homes legislation\u2014it doesn\u2019t go far enough. When someone can rent out a house with no curtains in the bedroom, no heating in the bedroom, no insulation, and the temperature can fall to 6 degrees overnight, we have a problem and a health crisis. It makes sense for Government to intervene. We\u2019ve heard that there are some landlords that are renting places with leaky roofs\u2014that needs to stop. Government can invest in insulation, invest in energy efficiency, and invest in free public transport. We can do that with revenue raised, and fair for those companies that are making super profits to pay more tax so that we can pay for these solutions that help all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002247c2ada372874641af54c099d8981776\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247c2ada372874641af54c099d8981776\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E Tuatahi, ka tahuri \u014Dku mihi ki t\u014Dku tuahine ki a Soraya Peke-Meihana kua t\u012Bmata mai ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I wish to acknowledge my sister Soraya Peke-Mason\u2019s commencement in this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a real special occasion to acknowledge her and, of course, her entering into Parliament at a very significant time. The numbers have already been raised about how a fair representation of w\u0101hine in this Whare has been reached, but it can\u2019t stop there. It\u2019s an ongoing challenge to this House not to settle for 50 percent but to continue to support and tautoko w\u0101hine into our House of Representatives. I want to acknowledge the new member because she certainly has a big job ahead of her, but I know that she\u2019s cut out for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really hard to articulate as well as the Hon Michael Wood just exactly what\u2019s going on here with respect to those who are on middle to low incomes here in this country. But what is clear is that on this side of the House we\u2019re supporting them. I want to lay out in my contribution here in the House just exactly how we\u2019re doing that, and perhaps some tips for members on the other side that, actually, there are ways and means in which we can do it here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWhat we hear from the other side of the House is that immigration is the answer to everything. Well, on this side of the House, we agree that immigration does play a role, actually, in the way we might support our labour market. We have, obviously, looked towards the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme to make sure that we can get wh\u0101nau in here to do the work that needs to be done here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m proud of this Government\u2019s record and I want to highlight to the other side of the House that here\u2019s a novel idea: let\u2019s invest in our own people. Let\u2019s make sure that we can train our own people here in Aotearoa to make sure that they can meet the demands of the labour market of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s no coincidence that in the 1970s there was a housing boom in this country. Large numbers of houses were built. Like I say, it was no coincidence that M\u0101ori trade training was a huge success through the 1960s and 1970s that saw all of those who were able to be skilled and upskilled into the trades seek the opportunity and contribute to the housing boom that we saw during that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, I\u2019m proud that this Government has supported over 50,000 apprentices into training to make sure that we can rise to the current challenge that we have with housing now\u2014and rising they are. In fact, from the start of our time as Government and the introduction of apprenticeship schemes, I have spoken to a couple who have already passed through their apprenticeship, are now business owners in this country, and are looking to make sure that they play their part to repay the faith and trust that this country had in them to rise to the challenge to become builders, to become business owners, and to build houses for this country. It\u2019s really exciting to know that in a hard time, like the pandemic that we\u2019ve had, the Labour Party is supporting those here in this country to upskill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also supporting them with respect to the minimum wage. Now, I want to give a big shout-out to lots of good employers in this country\u2014and there are many; there are many. I think of my own electorate in T\u0101maki Makaurau. I\u2019ve met with some awesome employers, who, despite the pandemic, paid their people above the minimum wage. They went to a living wage. They went to support their families that support their businesses. That\u2019s really important to acknowledge those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESadly, though, that isn\u2019t always the case when we look towards our low-income earners and our medium-income earners. So this side of the House has made it clear that we will focus on lifting them. Minister Wood has already outlined what this side of the House is doing. I want to acknowledge that despite the attempts from this side of the House to continue to lift the minimum wage, to support workers, to support new parents who are looking towards supporting their wh\u0101nau in those early formative years of their tamariki, sadly the other side of the House continue to block our attempts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m proud\u2014I\u2019m proud that on this side of the House we continue to push on, despite the negativity from the other side that looks towards solutions that aren\u2019t actually fit for purpose here in Aotearoa. So I\u2019m proud that on this side of the House we are focusing on what we can do for low to middle income earners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut it doesn\u2019t stop there. We know we have challenges ahead of us. We know that, for many of our wh\u0101nau out there, living is a challenge at the moment, and we have supported them in many ways and we will look to continue to support those families into the future to make sure that when we emerge fully from this pandemic\u2014because it\u2019s a rather convenient lapse of memory on the other side of the House that there was all of a sudden no COVID-19\u2014that we will be stronger and more resilient into the future, and they will know that this Government backed them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2e721ae9e884116a55eb88cb0121519\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2e721ae9e884116a55eb88cb0121519\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. How appropriate was it that \u201CNapoleon\u201D himself\u2014Michael Wood\u2014led off the Labour Party\u2019s contribution to this general debate, because it was the fable of the emperor\u2019s new clothes that Christopher Luxon, the Leader of the Opposition, started his speech about. Then we had the real emperor himself, the self-appointed next leader of the Labour Party, Michael Wood\u2014\u201CNapoleon\u201D himself\u2014getting up to make a pitiful contribution in the debate today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070855481aca4e2dac1c670c182f95f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I just remind the member to use proper names, not made-up names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbdbcccf7fc4292b5b91365267e9023\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry, Mr Speaker\u2014very good point. This Government will go down in history as the most incompetent and wasteful in New Zealand history. It is unbelievable, the increase in spending that they have overseen for so few results: $1 billion more per week compared to 2017\u2014let\u2019s get that very clear; a billion dollars extra per week compared to 2017\u2014massive increase in taxation, $15,000 more per household compared to 2017, through the inflation tax, the inability to adjust the thresholds, the tenant tax, the car tax, we\u2019ve got a jobs tax coming down the line. So $15,000 more, and what have we accomplished for that as a country? On every metric, whether it\u2019s the health system, whether it\u2019s the education system, whether it\u2019s the welfare system, whether it\u2019s housing, whether it\u2019s law and order\u2014on every metric\u2014things are worse now than they were five years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that came to power promising to fix long-term problems. Jacinda Ardern swept up the country with her ambition and her good intentions and her rhetoric and her empathy and her kindness and her compassion. And here we stand today in 2022 with 30,000 people waiting longer than four months for first specialist appointments in our health system\u2014it was 1,000, five years ago\u201430,000 people. At a time of record low unemployment, 50,000 more people are on the jobseeker benefit\u2014when unemployment is 3.2 percent. We stand here, and the Government claims to have spent $1.9 billion on mental health\u2014$1.9 billion. A lot of New Zealanders said, \u201CFantastic.\u201D A lot of Kiwis said, \u201CFantastic. We need to do something about mental health; it\u2019s a serious issue.\u201D\u2014$1.9 billion, and the Auditor-General, the independent scrutineer of Government money, doesn\u2019t know where the money\u2019s gone. He literally can\u2019t find where the money\u2019s gone, and certainly can\u2019t see any increased results for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister said they\u2019d lift 100,000 children out of poverty. There are more children now in poverty than there were five years ago. In no other area has the Government made more mistakes and failed so badly than in housing. People remember the 2017 election campaign. They remember the Prime Minister saying in August, \u201CI refuse to stand by while children are sleeping in cars.\u201D, and, quite rightly, most New Zealanders said, \u201CYou know what? That is a tragedy. Kids shouldn\u2019t sleep in cars.\u201D Here we are today in October 2022, and there are four times as many families living in cars than there were five years ago. There are four times as many families living in motels. The Government spends a million dollars a day housing people in motels. I remember Phil Twyford on his high horse in this House saying $90,000\u2019s too much\u2014[Interruption] $90,000\u2019s too much\u2014and he\u2019s right; $90,000 is too much. I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s 10 times more than $90,000: that\u2019s a million dollars. The list MP based in Auckland Central, Helen White, complains and moans over there, but I just think it speaks to the poverty of ambition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232527f2668ee45fbbb320a1ca6a8d032\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was just laughing at you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224848666ae9274da7a8d0cfc565cbe6b9\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she\u2019s laughing\u2014she\u2019s laughing. Righty-o. She\u2019s laughing at kids in cars. She\u2019s laughing at kids living in motels. She\u2019s laughing at the\u2014[Interruption] It\u2019s not funny. It\u2019s actually not amusing. It\u2019s an incredibly serious situation, because I\u2019ll tell you what: the kids living in motels in Rotorua and in Wellington and in Tokoroa and Christchurch and all around the country, those kids are the ram raiders of tomorrow. Their life chances are stuffed because of this Government\u2019s total inability to fix the housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis Government will go down as the most incompetent and wasteful at actually delivering outcomes for New Zealanders; the most incompetent and useless Government in New Zealand history. The good news is, in a year or so\u2019s time, Kiwis have got the chance to throw them out and vote for a better way, and I believe they will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002211196e5439e44b4f8996d9627884c109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211196e5439e44b4f8996d9627884c109\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member who just resumed his seat, Chris Bishop, talked about wasteful spending. He alluded to Minister Wood\u2019s contribution today in the House. The Minister was talking about investing in workers\u2014that is what members on that side of the House consider wasteful spending. \u201CHe aha te mea nui o te ao? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.\u201D \u201CWhat is the most important thing in the world? It\u2019s the people, it\u2019s the people, it\u2019s the people.\u201D It\u2019s also the people who are our economy\u2019s biggest asset, the people that we on this side of the House are investing in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EMonday was Labour Day, a day that is an opportunity to celebrate the progress made by the labour movement to improve workers\u2019 pay and working conditions, a day to reflect on the work that we still need to do in that space, and, unfortunately, a day that the National Party wants to abolish. Today is significant: we will be passing in this House a significant piece of legislation, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. That is, legislation that will stop what we have seen in many sectors across Aotearoa: a race to the bottom that is fuelled by worsening pay and conditions for some of our lowest-paid workers. Can I acknowledge all those in the House today who, for many years, across various spaces, whether workers themselves or union members, have fought for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIt is shameful that the National Party is opposing this legislation, but given their track record, it\u2019s not terribly surprising. This is legislation that can improve pay and working conditions for our cleaners, our bus drivers, our security guards, our retail workers, our orderlies, our aged-care workers, and our early childhood educators and teachers. Our society relies on the work of so many of these workers, but the race to the bottom that they have experienced has meant that their work hasn\u2019t been valued as it should be. That, at the core, is what fair pay agreements are about: they\u2019re about valuing work and valuing those who provide that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIn Auckland, we are seeing the impact of this race to the bottom very clearly. One of the biggest issues that gets raised with me in my electorate in Maungakiekie is the impact of rail closures. I have seven train stations across my electorate that are very well used. Auckland Transport has recently announced that there will be a closure of the rail network across T\u0101maki-makau-rau next year, and I understand why that is: it\u2019s to improve the foundations of our network, some of which were built 150 years ago. I get that, at the end of that, we\u2019ll have more reliable and faster trains, and we want that. However, I want to ensure, as the local MP, that we have viable and frequent bus replacements. But there\u2019s the rub, because we don\u2019t have enough bus drivers. We have a shortage of bus drivers, significantly, that was caused by a contracting system that forces operators to lower drivers\u2019 pay and working conditions in order to compete commercially\u2014that\u2019s the race to the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re doing a bunch of things to address this. There was money in Budget 2022 specifically to address this as well, but this legislation, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, is one that could address exactly what we are seeing and experiencing today. It\u2019s also a piece of legislation that\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b4d82dda414891a99f726bf280e9f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to ask the member\u2014you can talk about the principle, but you cannot anticipate what is about to come up in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d6efc5b5c0436e8b4b96e94d3ada7e\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure\u2014should the bill pass\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e22928d90ac42649bbb4c554df5c5fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. So don\u2019t actually talk about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddaa142e7264d21ac403b659d5e379c\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. All of the work that we\u2019re doing on this side of the House is to ensure that many of the workers that we are supporting\u2014and many of them are women, and they are men and women from our M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and ethnic communities\u2014the work we are doing is about valuing them and their work. These are also people who face pay gaps and some of them are groups that disproportionately experience migrant worker exploitation. The range of work that we\u2019re progressing on this side of the House will go a long way to address all of those issues: work we\u2019re doing to prevent migrant worker exploitation from happening in the first place, to protect those who\u2019ve been exploited and enable them to leave those situations quickly and safely, and work that we\u2019re doing to enforce legislation to deter further exploitation and also to better hold to account those who do exploit their workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ELast week, we celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Equal Pay Act 1972. It\u2019s a piece of legislation that\u2019s instrumental in ensuring the legal right to equal pay for equal work in Aotearoa, and we passed an amendment that will make it even easier for people to raise those equity issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00221af00d67a7644420913cd3fd40d0c63a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221af00d67a7644420913cd3fd40d0c63a\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Labour\u2019s \u201Chigh-powered\u201D waiting list plan announced yesterday is another failed health outcome\u2014announced on 4 May, and here we are six months later. What have we seen? Well, surprise, surprise\u2014this high-powered task force\u2014waiting lists have actually gone up. Waiting lists have gone up. And furthermore, what they said yesterday, when they had this big announcement, was that they\u2019re not going to deploy anything for another three months. Oh, and by the way, that\u2019ll cost $30 million\u2014that three-month delay. They have had years to come up with a plan, but, in fact, what we saw yesterday, with Labour\u2019s high-powered waiting list plan, was actually a plan for how to shut the door on surgery, not how to open the door. It was a \u201Cshutting the door\u201D plan, and I say that on three grounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EFirst of all, if you look at the report and look at ministerial answers, what we know is that 10,000 GP referrals per month are declined by Health New Zealand. What we know is that Christchurch district health board shut the door on GP referrals back in August. What we know is that there are GPs who now don\u2019t even bother sending a referral, because they know it won\u2019t be accepted. So the size of the iceberg underneath the water is much bigger than this Government can conceive. What we also saw was that follow-ups have been cancelled. Well, that\u2019s a good plan to shut the door! If you hadn\u2019t thought about it, when a surgeon does surgery, they need to do the follow-up, one, to address complications, but also to quality assure that they did a good job. So, if you remove those follow-up appointments, you remove the opportunity for the person who had the knife on the day to address the patient\u2014\u201CHas everything gone OK?\u201D\u2014and also to quality assure themselves: \u201CI did an OK job\u201D or \u201CHere\u2019s where I can do better.\u201D All of that is gone because Andrew Little and his high-powered task force has said that some follow-ups are unnecessary. Good luck to the Health and Disability Commissioner when that comes back to bite you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe third part to shutting the door is that, by default, they have set a new waiting list time. Instead of it being that, when you go on the waiting list, you can receive your surgery in four months, the new default time now is 12 months. Health New Zealand is only operating on its priority, 12-month waiting list. Now, we know there are roughly 5,315 on that list who have been waiting more than 12 months. It used to be 4 months\u2014the target. We know that went out the backdoor by default. The new waiting list target for Health New Zealand is 12 months. We have the worst wait times on record. First specialist assessments, those even wanting to see a specialist\u201436,000. People who are on the surgical list\u2014they were told by their surgeon, \u201CYou will be seen within 4 months.\u201D I\u2019ve just said that it is now 12 months at best\u201428,000 of them. Put those two together\u2014everyone on the list; those \u201Cmore than four months\u201D and those \u201Cless than four months\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s 200,000 people; 1 in 25 New Zealanders on waiting lists. And surprise, surprise, here\u2019s the spinner: when I asked the Minister how many people on waiting lists end up in the emergency department (ED)\u2014\u201CAre you surprised that it\u2019s 30 percent\u2014one in three\u2014on a waiting list eventually end up in ED?\u201D\u2014now, to be fair, I can\u2019t tell that it\u2019s with the condition that put them on the waiting list, but with a high probability that it likely is, and that is adding to our ED wait time problems. ED wait times\u201476 percent, the worst they\u2019ve been on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAnd let\u2019s look at the excuses, because I heard them here again today. \u201CWorst flu season ever\u201D\u2014that is not correct. Look at the Environmental Science and Research Ltd health stat data of 300 general practices. This is not the worst flu season ever. Find another excuse. So they go to COVID. No, again, wrong\u2014all of the waiting lists were failing long before COVID even arrived. Look back at your own data. Look at what John Bonning, the head of the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine, said this week around ED wait times: \u201CThis is not a COVID blip.\u201D Look at the letter we filed today from all of the specialists, all of the heads of department at Tauranga, and they say, \u201CHowever, we believe that COVID is providing an excuse for delays in access to care.\u201D And then the third excuse we heard last week was missing data\u2014\u201CThe dog ate my homework.\u201D Well, good luck with that! Find another excuse. Find a better excuse, because no one believes, and the data does not support, the pathetic excuses that have been put forward here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESeveral things you can do: workforce\u2014turn on the day one pathway to residency for nurses today. Targets: refocus the health workforce, refocus resources and funding on health targets. And, on the question of targets, we clearly have a difference. We have a difference of opinion here, with the Minister and his high-powered task force saying on TV ONE last night that they are distractions, but the real question Andrew Little needs to answer is why, in October last year, he said to reporters \u201CI\u2019m more confident today than I was two weeks ago about hitting the 90 percent COVID target.\u201D Explain why you supported the COVID targets, Mr Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00222fa5e083597f44948a101a0a2463a090\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fa5e083597f44948a101a0a2463a090\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It is a great pleasure today to rise and reflect on the wonderful things that this Government has done for workers and their employers. I took a few moments over Labour Day to reflect on the significant work this Government has done and will continue to do to improve working conditions and pay for workers across the country, and, indeed, across the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to take a few moments to reflect on the very real impact that it is having on my community. This Labour Day was one that I know my father-in-law would have been proud of; he was a strong unionist. We will not feel embarrassed about having connections with workers and doing what we need to do to support workers and support the work that workers do to support workers. So I\u2019m really clear\u2014we are very clear on this side of the House\u2014the most important resource in our society and our economy is our people. We have to ensure we invest in them, not consider them a waste of money\u2014invest in them through fair pay and conditions and training and development. This Government has done that and we will continue to do so and do it proudly. Despite the global pandemic and uncertainty, we have continued to fight, because workers deserve us to do that. Employers, workers, and their families have been provided with greater opportunities because of the work of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo I just want to start at the beginning\u2014shall I?\u2014with our babies. Paid parental leave has increased by $40 a week, all right? And we\u2019ve made improvements to family tax credits: the Best Start payment that provides an extra $65 a week. Giving just a little bit more breathing space for families means that they\u2019re more able to do their best when they\u2019re trying to get our little ones off to the best start in life. Our young people: free period products and school lunches. It\u2019s solid; it works. We know, every time we go into a school and we talk to the students and we talk to their teachers, the very real impact it is having on their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EOur workers: the minimum wage has increased to $21.20 an hour. We\u2019ve worked hard to bring about legislation to protect our most vulnerable workers. We\u2019ve stepped up to support industries to provide better conditions for our Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme workers. We\u2019re working to end modern slavery, both domestic and international supply chains\u2014the introduction of the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill. We passed the Screen Industry Workers Bill. And, of course, there are other bills that we won\u2019t mention that we will continue to progress, quite possibly today. It\u2019s 50 years since the passing of the Equal Pay Act, and the amendment that was made in 2020 meant that we have finished six equal pay settlements, and we\u2019ve got 19 more in progress. There is still more to be done, and we will continue to fight for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to talk about our future. Significantly, we have supported employers and their workers to invest in their workers. This is about lifting productivity. We don\u2019t lift productivity by cutting wages and cutting conditions. We lift productivity by investing in our workers and our young people, by lifting their mana and making sure they know they are valued and what they contribute to their workplace, for their employers, and to our society. I\u2019ve been with young people. We\u2019ve heard about the Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, Mana in Mahi, the Apprenticeship Boost. I have been with young people when they\u2019ve been given their pair of work boots and some tools. It isn\u2019t just about health and safety and having the stuff you need to do your job; these kids look you in the eye, their chins are lifted up, and they know that they are valued. They know that they are going to be supported to become productive members of our society and our economy. That\u2019s what lifts productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EBut wait, there\u2019s more. Discover Waitomo have been able to take advantage of programmes like Jobs for Nature, and that has meant that they\u2019re better connected with their whenua and they are ready for the tourism reset. I could go on. Shout-out to all of the workers and the unions in the House. I\u2019m going to finish there, because you are the highlight of our day, and it\u2019s great to see you here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b69188519f564fdc91af41b3099f1565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b69188519f564fdc91af41b3099f1565\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, let me remind the speaker who just resumed her seat, Angela Roberts, what lifts productivity in this country: it is kids who\u2019ve got good numeracy and literacy skills. When 2 percent of kids at decile 1 cannot pass a basic foundational test, that is going to be the biggest predictor of our future in productivity in 10 and 20 years\u2019 time. She clearly just forgot to mention that because it doesn\u2019t fit her narrative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWell, last week, very quietly on a Friday afternoon of a long weekend, from this most open and transparent Government ever, from what we\u2019ve come to expect from them on a quiet Friday afternoon, they quietly updated a website on the Ministry of Education page. And that was the results of the latest numeracy and literacy pilot. The reason that they did it with no fanfare, no press release, and no comment from the Minister\u2014either Minister that could have commented\u2014was because the results were appalling. They were abysmal. They should hang their heads in shame at five years of failure in our education system, at these horrific results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOnly a third of our students would have passed this exam and got their NCEA qualifications. But what\u2019s even worse is those kids from disadvantaged backgrounds and decile 1 schools: 2 percent. Pretty much every single student would have failed these basic exams and not gone on to get their NCEA. The sign of a world-class education system is its ability to lift those kids from low socio-economic and underprivileged backgrounds up and give them the opportunities to succeed in life. These results will not do that for these children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, what did we hear from the Minister on Friday when she was grabbed by the press after this announcement? We got excuses. What we got was, \u201COh, well, the test questions were not culturally appropriate\u201D, and then, when asked four times in this House and once on record, do you think she could answer the basic question? Just give us one example\u2014in any one of those three tests\u2014that was not culturally appropriate. Well, she finally\u2014kind of\u2014got there in the end. But the fact is, after four questions, she couldn\u2019t do it. And do you know why? Because she knows she\u2019s on shaky ground. She knows that these are excuses. And what did we get? Well, we got a 15-year-old can\u2019t answer a question with the word \u201Cclue\u201D in it because they may not have done a treasure hunt; so, therefore, it\u2019s not culturally appropriate. The question she should have been asking is: why is it that a 15-year-old doesn\u2019t have the oral language skills and the reading ability to understand the word \u201Cclue\u201D and know what that means? If I was the Minister of Education, the first question I would be asking is: why is it that all 15-year-olds don\u2019t have the oral language skills to be able to answer a basic question with a relatively basic word in it? And then I would be saying, \u201CThis is not good enough, we will be putting in place a range of things, starting at early childhood education, to improve the oral language skills of our very youngest learners, so that by the time they get to school, they\u2019re ready to learn\u201D. The next thing I would have said is, \u201CLet\u2019s get back to basics\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75aa806669c42e9a300279c6b1b52df\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed828bcd3e243018c7118da935ca3bc\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in our\u201D\u2014not national standards, but thanks for the interjection\u2014\u201Cprimary school and protect numeracy and literacy.\u201D The Government were told last year by the Royal Society math report to protect an hour of math a day. It was a report that they commissioned. Have they done that? Of course not\u2014of course not. It\u2019s all culturally inappropriate, that\u2019s the problem. It\u2019s not the fact that they haven\u2019t actually done anything that they were told to do to improve kids\u2019 ability to pass these exams. What we wanted to hear from our Minister is what she is going to do. What we wanted to hear is how she\u2019s going to protect numeracy and literacy at primary school to make sure that by the time these kids get to senior school, they are at curriculum and they\u2019re ready to learn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ELet me explain to you what this Government expected of this exam. In Cabinet papers, they said they expect that good year 7 and year 8 kids can pass this exam. And here we are with 15-year-olds at decile 1 and only 2 percent of them can pass that exam. This is an abysmal failure after five years in Government, five years of managing the education system with, frankly, a Minister that has been so busy with COVID, and now police, he\u2019s taken his eye off the ball. He\u2019s handed the reins to a junior Minister in her second term and we wonder why we get these abysmal results. We can do better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0e81339b52748c7a33b7486d8cf2426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0e81339b52748c7a33b7486d8cf2426\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D ni, Mr Speaker. Yesterday was a historic day for women in New Zealand. We had the swearing-in and maiden speech from my friend and colleague Soraya Peke-Mason, and, for the first time in our country\u2019s history, women have equal representation in this House, and long may that continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EYesterday, we also saw another milestone for women workers, with Minister Kelvin Davis announcing that community social workers would receive equal pay. Prior to entering Parliament, I sat on the board of Nelson Women\u2019s Refuge. We had many difficulties recruiting and retaining qualified social workers, because they were paid so poorly. It was increased funding from a Labour Government that led to a massive increase in the pay rates of Nelson Women\u2019s Refuge workers, and I was proud to be part of the board that delivered that. Those workers have still been behind the pay rates of many of our social workers within the public sector and that has led to incredible challenges to our NGOs and our community sector to recruit and retain qualified social workers, and so to have this announcement yesterday was remarkable. I am incredibly proud of those workers, many of whom are in the gallery today, who will receive an extra $20,000 to $30,000 increases on their annual salary. Labour is delivering for workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday, we also have another historic moment, and I know I need to be careful about stating what may happen later this afternoon. Many of us today will remember our dear friend and colleague Helen Kelly, who was the driving force behind fair pay agreements in New Zealand. Helen would always say \u201CIt\u2019s by design.\u201D The reason we have low wages and poor conditions in this country is because of the design of our system. I was in my early teens when the Employment Contracts Act was passed and it took our country backwards in terms of wages for workers. We saw, for decades, wages fail to increase at the rate of productivity, and workers\u2019 wages went backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve said before in this House, when speaking about fair pay agreements, about the amazing difference that they will make for retail workers and I want to acknowledge some of the people who\u2019ve been involved through the FIRST Union, who are here today, in working towards collective agreements in the retail sector, but predominately at Pak\u2019nSave and New World supermarkets, where those workers tend to be paid around $2 an hour less for doing the same work as those at a Countdown. The bill that we will be discussing this afternoon, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, will work to correct that wrong and we will finally get justice for supermarket workers in New Zealand who did so much to stand up for their communities during the pandemic. They will finally be recognised as the essential workers that they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EYesterday, on breakfast television, Auckland City Missioner Helen Robinson said that what people need the most is an increase in wages. Let us put on the record today that the National Party will be voting against legislation to lift the wages of working people in New Zealand. What they don\u2019t need is tax cuts\u2014that will put us on an economic course like the United Kingdom where we have seen the economy tank one day after a Government announced tax cuts\u2014for the wealthiest New Zealanders. What we see from the National Party today is a party who wants to give tax cuts and more income to the highest earners in New Zealand during a cost of living crisis, while, on this side of the House, this Labour Government\u2014and I am so proud to be a member of this Labour Government today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge my friend Jenny Wells, who I hope will be watching, who has stood up for supermarket workers for years and years and years. What we are doing today is for you, for your workers, for the people who hold up this country. It is a proud day, an historic day to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022770b10928047477ba7312f1f6b54c818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770b10928047477ba7312f1f6b54c818\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. [Applause from the gallery] Order! I don\u2019t want to rain on anyone\u2019s parade, but this debate is for members; not for the public in the gallery. So it would be helpful if you didn\u2019t actually participate. [Interruption] Yeah, I mean that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u00220946c4d843ee424389979ce948738fd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220946c4d843ee424389979ce948738fd0\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. In her Speech from the Throne in 2017, Jacinda said that this would be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a30d7ff435b4416a98b93fec82be9ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Full names, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bd7df88a56149b49985b8b97bc7509d\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said that this would be a Government of action and that they would take action on homelessness. Five years later, a picture says a thousand words. [Holds up a photo of the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, appearing to give cash to a person begging in the street] The problem has not been fixed, and even the Prime Minister now can\u2019t ignore that fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EThis Government talks about child poverty and Jacinda vowed to end child poverty\u2014Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern vowed to end poverty when she took office, and she likes to pat herself on the back about her performance. But Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has spent a grand total of 17 hours in her ministerial diary on the child poverty reduction portfolio since 2017\u201417 hours. She has spent more time trying to escape to Antarctica this week than she has on her greatest political passion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EIt gets worse. The Ministry of Social Development\u2019s Child Poverty in New Zealand report was released this month, and the Government got straight into patting itself on the back about the figures, but the report didn\u2019t include the 4,000 children living in emergency housing. The Government didn\u2019t include the children that are suffering the most in this country. Whole families are living in dingy motel rooms, often with gang members down the hall and with criminal behaviour around the corner that the Government won\u2019t even take stock of. We\u2019ve heard heartbreaking stories of what\u2019s going on in those emergency motels, but the Government has dodged questions for years on this, saying that they don\u2019t record emergency housing as a location type. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EAnother instance where the Government doesn\u2019t want to know the extent of their failure is in emergency housing. They\u2019ve excluded emergency housing from police records and they\u2019ve excluded emergency housing from the Child Poverty in New Zealand report. When Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was asked about excluding these vulnerable children suffering in motel rooms under her watch, she had no idea that they weren\u2019t included in the survey. Her office later apologised for the mistake, but, in the same statement, doubled down, saying that it didn\u2019t matter. Her office kicked back against those who are saying that these 4,000 children in emergency housing should have been included. They\u2019re within the margin of error, her office said. Is this how this Government views a group of some of the worst-suffering children\u2014the margin of error? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s worse is that in the same statement, the Prime Minister\u2019s office said that these children wouldn\u2019t be in material hardship anyway because the household housing costs would be cheaper than private rentals. So is this the PM\u2019s office saying that the family of five squeezed into a one-bedroom emergency housing motel are lucky? Think of all that money they\u2019re saving on rent. So the PM\u2019s office says that it doesn\u2019t matter that the 4,000 children in emergency housing were excluded from the child poverty report\u2014they\u2019re within the margin of error, and they\u2019re not doing it that tough, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EHow typical of this Government to turn a blind eye to the children they are letting down the most, like Minister Davis, who refuses to front up and take responsibility for Oranga Tamariki\u2019s failings, which led to the death of Malachi Subecz. He\u2019s been hiding behind an unpublished internal report for months. When the Ombudsman published its scathing review, saying that Oranga Tamariki (OT) had failed to do the bare minimum to prevent Malachi\u2019s death and calling for OT to apologise, Kelvin wouldn\u2019t take responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fcb642225149aea31043c7888ca4c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Full names, again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a8085738da42ddac92f55d02b82f4f\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Minister Kelvin Davis would not take responsibility. \u201CWe\u2019re waiting for our own report.\u201D, he said. Is Oranga Tamariki\u2019s report going to find anything different from the Ombudsman\u2019s report, and, if it is, why would it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EThis is just another example of the Government shrouding its responsibility behind layer upon layer of bureaucracy and reports. ACT says that this isn\u2019t good enough. ACT would put the children at the centre of its response and would make sure that we are collecting the data of those children who are most in need. We would make sure that OT acted on reports of concern and did not ignore them, as OT did in the tragic case of Malachi. The wellbeing and the interests of children must be at the centre; not protecting the interests of the Ministers and keeping the Government\u2019s nose clean. This Government is utterly failing our most vulnerable children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00227b07a2e240f3491d99dc0bb64b18f182\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b07a2e240f3491d99dc0bb64b18f182\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When I hear the rhetoric from the ACT Party and the National Party today, I wonder\u2014I wonder\u2014how they can actually say that we need more support, while having a philosophy that is so far away from that. It\u2019s a philosophy that says the market should rule. It\u2019s a philosophy that says we should actually lower wages, because that\u2019s somehow going to increase production. And it has been an utter failure, and it has led to the problems we see in our society. It has led to the homelessness picture that my friend Karen Chhour just showed, because what happens when you actually pillage people, when you take down their wages to such low amounts is that they can\u2019t survive and their mental health suffers. The median wage in New Zealand is $56,000. I challenge any member in this House to survive on that money, to feed their families on that money. That is a low wage and it is a stressful way to be, and it is a damn sight harder to live, with inflation as it is, when your wage is at that level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat we need to do in this society is we need to raise our wages. We need to get out of a cycle of trickle-down economics. And yet what has the National Party offered us? It has offered us a proposal that we actually cut the tax of the highest-income earners, putting huge amounts of money into the pockets of the highest-income earners. And let\u2019s just unpack that: what is going on there is that the National Party believe that that is the best way to produce a productive economy, because they believe that if the people at the top have the money, they will produce wealth\u2014well, that has not worked. And the biggest actual signal of that was when we had the working party report come out and it was headed by Jim Bolger, who was the leader of the National Party, and he said it has not worked. What he suggested was that we needed, and he was with Business New Zealand when he did it, a system where we had an actual structural change where we lifted wages at the bottom. And that\u2019s, of course, what fair pay agreements are designed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe need to look at our most vulnerable people in our community and we need to support them. I challenge, again, the National Party and the ACT Party to think: if a woman who is on those low, low amounts of money is working as a caregiver, is she any less worthy because she doesn\u2019t have the bargaining power to get that pay rate up? Because I\u2019ve worked for different unions\u2014when I actually was working as a lawyer, which was 25 years\u2014and what I\u2019ve noticed is you can work damned hard in this country and not make any money. You can do really good work, you can do work that is valuable in our community, and you won\u2019t make money. because you don\u2019t have the bargaining power to do so. So what\u2019s really important is that we change the system and we recognise those groups of people and we lift them up\u2014we lift them up\u2014and they end up in middle-class actual incomes, not scraping at the bottom, not turning into our homelessness problem, because that\u2019s what happens if you leave people at the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd guess what! Our productivity doesn\u2019t go up. We have actually got the OECD behind us on this. The OECD say what will help our productivity in this country is if we raise the wages of those groups, if our lowest-income earners get our support, get organised, and have collective, minimum standards. That is what will make a huge difference in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EActually, the philosophy\u2014the philosophy\u2014behind tax cuts for the rich, the philosophy behind blaming everybody else for the problems that emerge, and saying the market will actually do its thing and will protect us, that has failed\u2014that has failed so badly. And what we ended up with is we ended with run-down services, run-down infrastructure\u2014infrastructure makes a big difference to house prices. It is a system and this Government knows that, and it\u2019s putting in place structural change, which means better infrastructure, it means actually affordable, accessible healthcare, and it means that we will end up with wages, in this country, rising\u2014not for short term but for long term. I want less inequality, more productivity, and I am absolutely proud to be part of a Government that can see the wood for the trees on this one. I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6126525f53348e3bbae982bc73d82ce\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220fdfadc7f20a4ced89c5f6b1b505c01a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddaece9ae2064f80b7cc800cc4ce53e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddaece9ae2064f80b7cc800cc4ce53e7\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Fair Pay Agreements Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a09b9de194444abe8bf79c85e5c16e4b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7088420a6f04009a043a26e63f3f54c\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fair Pay Agreements Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis one\u2019s for Helen Kelly. Over the course of this debate, we\u2019ve talked about the people that fair pay agreements will help\u2014those who clean, those who care, those who drive, those who serve\u2014workers who, for 30 years, have been left out in the shadows of our deregulated labour market. And sometimes, when you know the problem, you need someone who will help to light the way, and Helen was that person for so many of us. Helen spoke directly about the problems; Helen spoke directly and issued challenges to those of us who could make a difference. She said to Rebecca Macfie, who wrote her biography, \u201CWe don\u2019t need low wages in this country. There\u2019s no excuse for it. People should be able to go to work, work their hours, and have a decent standard of living at the end of the week.\u201D And, as Rebecca Macfie said, reflecting on that, \u201CIt was a matter-of-fact comment that belied a monumental ambition to shake up the movement she now lead so that it worked for all workers and to build the case for a law change that would stop workers\u2019 wages being eroded in a competitive race to the bottom.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EHelen Kelly\u2019s challenge was to all of us: it was to our economy, it was to decision makers in this House, and it was indeed to the union movement\u2014to stop looking inwards and just looking after short-term interests, and to look outwards to the needs of the hundreds of thousands of workers who needed a change. Sometimes it takes the clarity of a crisis to really focus us in on what needs to change. Who was it across our society that we relied on when things were as bad as they could have been under COVID? Who was it who kept our workplaces clean and healthy and hygienic, but our cleaners? Who was it that kept our towns and cities moving, faced aggression, faced danger, faced infection, but our bus drivers? Who was it who kept our households stocked with the essential goods that kept us all going, but those people on the chain in our supermarkets and retail stores? And everyone, at that time, said thank you. Everyone at that time said, \u201CThese people are heroes and we rely on them.\u201D Well, the words and the thanks were great, but actually it\u2019s time for action. It\u2019s time to recognise the work of those people in keeping our society going at all times and in the very most difficult and worst of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAs this debate has deployed in this House over the last six months, I have not heard one acknowledgment from that side of the House about the reality of life in low-wage New Zealand\u2014not one acknowledgment. In fact, from that party\u2019s spokesperson, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, only this week, a denial that people in those roles need better wages. He said this\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CI accept that the best way to improve worker income is to ultimately improve productivity, so that it is the only way to have sustainable increase in wages.\u201D Well, for those people who actually have watched this area for 30 years, here is what I say: we did exactly what they said we should do, because the National Party stood in this House 30 years ago, when they launched the most radical deregulation of the labour market, when they abolished minimum standards and sector-based bargaining, and they said it would lead to more productivity. They said it would lead to better terms and conditions for workers. And do you know what happened? The productivity went up and the wages did not keep pace. The promises that they made in that funk of deregulation, which they still live in a fever dream of, were proven to be false here in New Zealand and all around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is an issue that is about priorities, and it is about \u201CWe stand where we stand\u201D, and it is about the most basic and longstanding of Kiwi values: the value of a fair go. That is where we stand, and that is what fair pay agreements are about: about the basic ability to have a fair day\u2019s wage for a fair day\u2019s work; about not having a race to the bottom in terms and conditions that trap not just low-wage workers but many of our employers, who tell us they want to do the right thing, they want to pay more, they want to have security for their workers, but a race to the bottom system means that those employers are undermined and unable to do what is the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements are also about the bigger picture. They are about stopping the race to the bottom. They are about being able to work together\u2014across employees, employers, unions\u2014to actually look at those fundamental issues that we keep talking about but are not making progress on: our chronically low rates of productivity compared to nearly every other country we compare ourselves with. And here is the irony and the reality that that side of the House never ever recognises: that the countries with which we compare ourselves, who have done better on productivity than New Zealand\u2014countries like Australia\u2014have sector-based minimum standards that, since 1991, when that side of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde856fb38dd407eb763e798e0c2a1f0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! I\u2019m sorry to have to interrupt the member. He has every right to speak in this House and to be heard, and that is why I\u2019m appealing to our friends and visitors in the gallery to please hold their applause until the end of this whole debate. There are 12 speeches in this debate, and each and every member of this House will be heard in silence by our visitors in the gallery. Then, I understand, you have permission to applaud as wildly as you care, and also grant us and favour us with a waiata. So, with apologies to the House, the Hon Michael Wood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba850c627af4b59ae473a8ddbb99fff\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: For the 30 years that we have not had sector-based bargaining in our economy and Australia has, their average rate of productivity growth each and every year has been 40 percent higher than New Zealand\u2019s over that period. It\u2019s about lifting our sights a little bit higher to recognise that a society is not healthy when the gap between those with the least and those with the most continues to grow. It used to be a conservative value in this country that there was a basic level of security and stability for working people, and that side of the House has fundamentally forgotten what that means for a decent and a stable society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt is about lifting our sights a little bit to value work, and we cannot say in this House that we value work if we do not properly value the contribution that people make through fair pay, through decent conditions, and through a little bit of stability in their lives. And, it is about once again having proper social dialogue between those who bring their capital and their ideas and the innovation, and those who bring their labour to build our economy, because both sides contribute to our economy and our society, and both sides should have a seat at the table as we consider how the fruits of our production are shared out across the country. Fundamentally, it is about once again forming a social contract in this country where working people have a voice, where working people receive fair dues for the contribution that they make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI want to work through a number of thankyous as this bill comes to its conclusion. Firstly, to the Rt Hon Jim Bolger and the Fair Pay Agreements Working Group, who four years ago made the recommendations\u2014considered recommendations\u2014that we have based this legislation on. I want to thank the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway, the Minister who commenced work on this legislation and this policy. To the outstanding officials within the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, including Beth Goodwin, Tracy Mears, and their teams, who have written thousands of pages of advice, who have sat through mammoth select committee hearings, and who have ensured that we have a piece of legislation that I believe will be enduring. To Marja Lubeck and all members of the Education and Workforce Committee, who did their job diligently and reported back a bill to this House that was better than the one that we put in at the beginning. And I say thank you to every union and every working person who has kept the faith and has helped to build support for this major change that we will be making for our society today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis was a manifesto commitment of the Labour Party when we came into office in 2020, and we are proud that we have kept it and that we are delivering this change. It speaks to our values and who we are. It speaks to the fact that we value work and working people. And, in 2022, we still hold to those same values that have been core to our party over the last 106 years, as we have represented working people in this House. And this is a piece of legislation that speaks to Helen Kelly\u2019s values: the values of dignity for working people; about working people not feeling that they have to feel grateful and doff their caps just for having a job; about them having the fundamental right and ability to be at the table and engage in good-faith negotiations about how they should be treated. And it\u2019s also about one of the most important values and contributions that Helen Kelly made. It was the value that we are better off when we are together, when we bring everyone to the table, including working people. The work is never over, but today, through this legislative change, we are one step closer to making work fair. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022758b0c7c2ed943beaeadd86a7aea673c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022758b0c7c2ed943beaeadd86a7aea673c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the call, members of the gallery, you have had two warnings from the Chair. I\u2019m not going to give you another warning. You may not intervene from up in the gallery. I hope I make myself very clear. Again, I say to you, you are very welcome here, but you are not part of our debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002207ca9399279a4a40a724475a0be3ec0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207ca9399279a4a40a724475a0be3ec0f\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E If ever there was an occasion to dramatically and starkly demonstrate the philosophical and ideological differences between the old-fashioned Labour Government that currently holds a majority in this Parliament\u2014but not for much longer\u2014and this side of the House, it is this piece of legislation. It is fundamentally flawed. It is bad for New Zealand. It is bad for New Zealand business. But what\u2019s worse is it is bad for New Zealand employees and workers. They will be the people who are worst off as a result of this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear at the outset of my contribution in this third reading debate that a re-elected National-led Government will, as a priority, repeal this piece of legislation. We will do it because it is the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EFor 30 years in New Zealand, we have had the benefits of a nimble, flexible, and exciting industrial environment. We have all benefited from that. All New Zealanders have benefited from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHere we have, today, on the anniversary of the five years of this Government\u2014and remember: this was a piece of legislation that the Minister said was a manifesto promise, and I recall it was supposed to be implemented within the first hundred days. Well, five years of failure later, it is finally being achieved by the force of brute numbers in this Chamber. That\u2019s the way it works in this Parliament: brute numbers. But it\u2019s not about taking New Zealanders with you. This is a Government that seems now to have a complete disregard for ordinary New Zealanders and what they think\u2014so out of touch, so out of step with the thinking of a modern, progressive, and interesting world that will create a brighter, more bold future for all New Zealanders. With this piece of legislation, they want to take us back to the 1970s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m one of those in this Chamber\u2014and most of my colleagues can\u2019t remember it, but there are a few on the other side who can\u2014who remember how bad those days were. I remember how bad it was when the trade unions dominated the New Zealand economic situation. There\u2019s a reason that that history was rejected by New Zealanders, it\u2019s because it\u2019s old-fashioned, it doesn\u2019t work, and the world has moved on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, what we know from this piece of legislation is that this is really not about fair pay agreements; it is about mandatory union deals. My colleagues, over the last couple of days, have been arguing the detail of this legislation through the committee of the whole House and have been, literally, tearing holes through it. The Minister was unable to answer questions about the detail about how it\u2019s going to work, because the structure no longer exists, because we\u2019re in the 2020s; we\u2019re not back in the 1970s. Those structures do not exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat happens now is a Minister is going to have a piece of legislation passed, using brute numbers in this House, that will be repealed, probably, within 12 or 18 months\u2014probably less; maybe earlier if they don\u2019t last the full mile. Then what will happen is that New Zealand businesses and employees are going to have to go through this whole process of change where secret deals are done between lord knows who on behalf of the business side of the table, because there is nobody standing up wanting to be party to this new scheme, and the deal will be done with big unions behind closed doors. The only difference between now and the 1970s will be that those rooms behind closed doors won\u2019t be smoke-filled\u2014thank goodness! But the same ideological and philosophical approach will be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis removes an opportunity from New Zealanders, New Zealand employees, and New Zealand employers to negotiate terms, conditions, and arrangements that suit them\u2014that suit them. They don\u2019t want to have imposed mandatory deals thrust upon them by unknown, faceless people who have no understanding of the individual imperatives that make businesses work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIf it was just as easy as arbitrarily legislating for things to be true in the area of industrial relations, then it would have been done years go\u2014but it was done years ago and it didn\u2019t work; it didn\u2019t work and it doesn\u2019t work. Overseas countries have looked with envy at the New Zealand industrial relations regime and our environment over the years, and they\u2019ve said, \u201CThose New Zealanders have got it right\u2014they\u2019ve got it right.\u201D They look at us with envy. Here we have a Government full, of course, of union acolytes and failed delegates and what have you, who come back to this House to represent the political interests of the trade union movement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMost members in this House certainly forget the history of the trade union movement. When it was first established back in the 1800s, there was a need, and they decided pretty quickly that what they needed was political representation. So all around the world, in countries like ours, Labour Parties were formed, and they became the political wing of the trade union movement. So we know, on this side of the Parliament, that those connections are historic, they\u2019re political, and they are, of course\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257fe0f19041d401bba0ecb8765e79fa3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They get the money from them, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0274077dc1c44d4b31d375f2fbbad77\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014financial. It\u2019s \u201Cfollow the money, honey.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s happened over the last 30 years since the employment contracts legislation came into effect? New Zealanders have voted with their feet many, many times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084370aabadb4b239a567f0b62030f94\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. It is well-established in Speakers\u2019 rulings that suggesting that any members of this House are under the influence of an external body and subject to money, as the member just implied, is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da56e16f087449ab2b81780c6d7c71a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228278ace845ae4699a329f9e539fc650f\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. The history is well-known\u2014the history is extremely well-known. New Zealanders up and down the countryside know that when they have freedom of choice, when they have the ability to negotiate their own terms and conditions with their employer, or when the employer has the opportunity to negotiate those terms with individual employees, things get done, and they don\u2019t want to have the involvement, necessarily, of a trade union. What\u2019s happened is that trade union membership over those years has plummeted. It\u2019s plummeted because they are not relevant to most New Zealanders. Most New Zealanders know that they don\u2019t need to pay $600 or $700 a year or whatever it for a union that actually won\u2019t help them. Who knows where that money goes? Most New Zealanders do know where that money goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo this is a piece of legislation that is designed to boost union influence and union membership in the New Zealand economy just at a time when we are under the most severe economic stress that this economy has had in several decades. What\u2019s happening? We now have massive inflation, we have inflation at a 30-year high, we have a crisis of cost of living, and we have all kinds of issues that are confronting this Government. What is their number one priority at the moment? It seems to be that their number one priority at the moment is to boost union membership. That\u2019s really what it\u2019s all about. It\u2019s about boosting union membership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, small businesses, particularly, will pay a price for this piece of legislation. It won\u2019t be the big businesses, because they can actually work their way around the increased impost of cost that will come on as a result of this change. It will be small business up and down New Zealand, who are already under immense pressure, who have suffered over the last couple of years in ways that, two or three years ago, businesses could never have imagined that they would suffer, and they are hurting. This will provide further pain and anguish for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ETreasury advice was very clear. I want to quote from the Treasury advice. It says \u201Cthere has been minimal identification of empirical evidence for the problem or policy response\u201D that this legislation seeks to achieve. Absolutely damning criticism. What it means is that this is a Government that cares more about their philosophical and ideological agenda and the relationships that they have with their support organisations than it is about anything to do with fair pay or agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat it means is a party that is true to stripe: old-fashioned socialism\u2014old-fashioned socialism. While some of them over there still deny being socialists, actually they are. They\u2019re old-fashioned socialists. There are several of them who are going to be finding themselves back in the workforce very quickly because New Zealanders don\u2019t want this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to finish where I started off. If ever there was a piece of legislation that dramatically showed the ideological differences between this side of the House and a socialist, old-fashioned Labour Party Government, it\u2019s this piece of legislation. This is a piece of legislation that, at the first possible opportunity, a re-elected National-led Government will repeal and we will do so because it is the right and proper thing to do on behalf of New Zealand citizens, on behalf of New Zealand workers, on behalf of New Zealand employers, and on behalf of \u201CNew Zealand Incorporated\u201D. Taking us back to the 1970s is simply not a credible proposition, even from a Minister who himself came from the trade union movement. This is a thoroughly bad piece of legislation. We will repeal it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002275bc724dff1f414ea860eddfbcf074be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275bc724dff1f414ea860eddfbcf074be\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Otir\u0101 ng\u0101 mema katoa o te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Here\u2019s my prediction. To that member Scott Simpson, who\u2019s just resumed his seat: in about maybe 10, 15, 20 years\u2019 time, this side of the House is going to enable a platform in which he is going to get up, like the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, and say \u201CI got it utterly wrong\u2014I got it utterly wrong!\u201D That\u2019s my prediction. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EHe aha te mea nui o te ao? He t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[What is the most important thing in the world? It is people, it is people, it is people.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI say that whakatauk\u012B because it talks to this bill, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, and I am really proud that we have come to this day to see the introduction of this third and final reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI come from a long line of freezing workers and I\u2019m going to stand up in this House and talk about the freezing worker sector and how they were prior to the introduction of the deregulating Employment Contracts Act (ECA). I come from a long proud line of freezing workers. I live in Whakat\u016B, which was the home of the largest freezing works in this nation before it closed, which is now Silver Fern Farms but was once upon a time Richmond Pacific, just down the road from where I live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ECan I tell those in this House what the conditions were in our little community of Whakat\u016B prior to the removal of the rights of our workers and the rights of our unions to negotiate on behalf of our workers. I\u2019ll tell you this: every member that worked at those freezing works owned their own homes. They owned their own homes, they owned their own vehicles, and children were in school. We didn\u2019t need mental wellbeing support, because people had employment to look after their families. We didn\u2019t have the crime rate. And I\u2019ll challenge anyone on that side of this House to go and look at the stats. Back in the 1980s, before this Act was introduced, families took care of families and communities took care of communities. And believe it or not, we actually knew who owned our freezing works, because their kids went to the same school. So there was a commitment to community investment and wellbeing that we saw. Wages were high; productivity was high. There was not this foolishness that we\u2019re hearing from that side that\u2019s all doom and gloom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis is the picture that I am painting of the 1970s, of the 1980s, and the early 1990s before the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act. In my little community of Whakat\u016B, it was thriving. Kids were going to school, parents had double incomes coming in. They had their own homes. They were self-reliant\u2014the very thing that this side of the House represents is our people, our community. And I want to come to this House to talk about the community of Whakat\u016B and all the other little communities that operated around this country prior to the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut what happened when the Employment Contracts Act\u2014because I also want to turn to the devastation from the introduction that the ECA had in 1991. And I want to tell you: families were against families on picket lines. My grandmother had to pull in our family, because it was sister on sister, cousins on cousins. Before, as I just painted, we all lived really, really well in my part of the world. Everyone was independent financially. Kids were engaged in learning. Homes were owned. And then the ECA came in and it pitted families against families. We had families and communities devastated through the introduction of the ECA. But does that side acknowledge it? No, they don\u2019t. They think it\u2019s all about the employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWhat about the communities in which these businesses were in and the contribution those communities had to those businesses? Where are their rights\u2014where are their rights? That\u2019s why I\u2019m in this House saying it is a good day\u2014it is a good day. It\u2019s 30 years late, but it\u2019s still a good day. Recognition of those communities that stood up, that were on school boards, that helped coach the schools and sports clubs\u2014all dissipated. They were all dissipated with the introduction of the ECA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m proud, and before I came to this House, I rang my mother\u2014I rang my mother, who\u2019s 84. She worked for Silver Fern Farms with her sister and her other sister\u2014a combined total of 126 years between three sisters. And I said, \u201CMum, you came down here in the early 1990s and you stood up for our freezing workers, and you went to the Employment Court and you talked about the removal of seniority. You talked about protection of seniority. You talked about the union\u2019s right to represent workers. And it is your day.\u201D It is just like we\u2019re saying to all the others who have made this possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the little people. I want to talk about the people I come from, the freezing workers, and I want to acknowledge their contribution on this day. I want to talk about their contribution and their acceptance of something that\u2019s so long overdue, which is the rights of our workers\u2014the rights of our workers\u2014and not just the bottom line. It\u2019s about wellbeing for our communities. It\u2019s about wellbeing for our schools and sports clubs. This is what the ECA decimated, which is why I\u2019m so proud to stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis is a beautiful day in recognition of all the pain and the suffering that the ECA 30 years ago had on communities. Let\u2019s not forget that. And so I\u2019m proud to stand here to say it is timely that we rectify a wrong. Of course, things have moved on; it\u2019s 30 years on, but we have lost lots of people from communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to say how proud I am to stand in support with Minister Wood and to acknowledge everybody who has helped get this to where we are today. There has been mention of names. I want to endorse the work of the select committee. I want to endorse Helen Kelly for the work that she did. But I also want to talk about two uncles that are no longer here. I need to acknowledge them, because they were national presidents of the freezing workers, Bill Bennett and Rangi Paenga, who were stalwarts in looking after the rights of our freezing workers up and down this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI know I only talk about one industry, but I am so passionate about this because it devastated the very community I lived in and come from, which is Whakat\u016B. So it\u2019s important that I come and stand in support of this bill rectifying something that incredibly undid and decimated our community of Whakat\u016B. Good people come from there; many left. We had suicides, for goodness\u2019 sake, and families uprooted and moved to Australia. Those are real clear examples of the human cost when we take away the rights of workers to get a fair deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EA fair deal\u2014that is what we\u2019re talking about here. We\u2019re not taking away the control of the business owner. We\u2019re just asking for a fair deal. And we\u2019re also looking for recognition that we don\u2019t just come to work, but we actually invest in the community in which we reside. Where\u2019s the passion in that? That is why my opening statement, \u201CHe aha te mea nui o te ao? He t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata.\u201D is so critically important when we are talking and debating about this important bill, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been 30 years in the making. I\u2019m so proud of Minister Wood and what his work has done\u2014and all my colleagues on this side, who always put our workers first, and in no better way than this bill that acknowledges the workers up and down the country who do the hard yards, who put themselves up on the line, who all just want a fair deal. That\u2019s all they want. I\u2019m proud to stand with this side of the House to acknowledge that they deserve a fair deal; they do. And I can now take a breath and know that the people that I represent of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, of the community I reside in at Whakat\u016B, will celebrate this day, along with many who have come to witness the third and final reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f540ba8e6f594fe3976d4540d537cd44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f540ba8e6f594fe3976d4540d537cd44\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to rise to take a call in the third reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to call this bill for what it is\u2014and Paul Goldsmith mentioned it many, many times in his many contributions over the nine or ten hours we debated this bill in the committee stage\u2014the compulsory union deal bill; this\u2014as my colleague Scott Simpson mentioned\u2014fundamentally flawed piece of legislation that we are not supporting and that we will repeal at the very first opportunity that we get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worth going through the parts of the bill that are so egregious, and I think the first point to mention in the bill that we have as presented back from the committee stage is a bill that forces employees and employers to the table with only 10 percent\u2014or 1,000 workers\u2014of a workforce. The important thing to note here is that the 1,000 workers may not even be 1 percent. For particularly large sectors where you\u2019ve got hundreds of thousands of workers, this could actually only represent 1 percent of the workers. The other minimum they said is 10 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe bar is so low, you would be forgiven for thinking that people wouldn\u2019t want to be part of this deal given that they set the bar so low. You would be forgiven for thinking, by listening to the speeches\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0e060ea5e24229b41536f9586fadf5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Don\u2019t bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89eb1bbb8114f77b097c2582aee0b96\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. You would be forgiven\u2014sorry, \u201Cyou\u201D, yes, I understand. Members would be forgiven\u2014thank you, Madam Speaker, for setting me right, there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMembers would be forgiven, Madam Speaker, for thinking, after listening to the speeches from the other side today so far that employees would be clamouring to be part of a fair pay agreement. Yet they set the bar so very low that it may actually only be half of 1 percent of employees in that sector that sign up to start the bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIn fact, they\u2019ve snuck something else in that means not a single worker needs to sign up to start a fair pay agreement negotiation. The public interest test, which has snuck into this bill, means that no one needs to sign up. A union\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224097c8b163da49668867b700d79ea7e5\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Snuck in! Snuck in in broad daylight through the House of Parliament!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf5e1a6f84c43ec88d66281f1c0e351\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I say \u201Csnuck in\u201D because they don\u2019t like talking about it very much, because what it means is that no one wants to be a part of this bill, and yet the unions can go and claim that there is a public interest to start a fair pay agreement (FPA).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no choice for employers, there\u2019s no choice for employees. They are forced into it, whether they like it or not. And there is no ability to stop this process, reverse it, or ever get rid of it\u2014an FPA\u2014once it\u2019s started. Once an FPA is started, that\u2019s it: there will be a deal, there is no exceptions, there\u2019s nothing in the bill to stop the process, ever reverse it, or in fact, get rid of an FPA once it\u2019s been negotiated. An FPA can be varied, it can be renewed, but it can never, ever end. It can never be taken out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, my colleague Scott Simpson talked about the ability of our employers to be nimble and flexible. And what we are getting at the end of today, I expect, will be an Act that replaces this flexibility and this nimbleness with an overly complex piece of legislation\u201411 parts of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAn example of that overly complex nature of this bill\u2014and this was discussed at select committee and again at the committee of the whole House stage and what we ended up with\u2014is that if only 25 percent of your job is covered by the work of an FPA, you will be included. Sorry, not you, Madam Speaker. The person\u2014the worker\u2014will be included.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo you can imagine the labour inspectorate going around businesses, checking to see the employees who, for example, might be working in hospitality\u2014working on the front desk one day, changing sheets the next, maybe in the bar the next\u2014checking to see whether or not 25 percent of their work that\u2019s being done meets the fair pay agreement that\u2019s been negotiated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAn interesting point to note in this bill is about the information\u2014the private information\u2014that will now be held by unions. Not of their members, but of every single employee that is subject to this FPA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EInterestingly in the bill, the unions are able to use that private information\u2014not just of their members but also of everyone else\u2014in order to sell their union membership. They are allowed, under this bill, to use that personal information to contact employees who are not their members and say to them, \u201CIf you join our union, we will negotiate so that the\u2014\u201D; we will join our union; there was no \u201Cyou\u201D in there. Pretty sure of that. \u201CIf you join our union, we will negotiate through the FPA process that the fees that you pay will be repaid to you.\u201D So basically, it\u2019s free union membership. They\u2019re able to use that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow in clause 16, it clearly says the unions are not able to entice people, using this information, into their union, apart from the ability, of course, to write to them all, to communicate with them all, to say to those non-union members, \u201CIf you join the union, the fees that you pay will be paid back to you, so therefore it\u2019s for free; come and join us.\u201D But of course, if an employer does anything like that\u2014at all, any enticement at all\u2014there\u2019s a $20,000 fine immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOne of the things that the Minister was never able to answer\u2014either in select committee or at committee of the whole House\u2014was what\u2019s going to happen with migrant workers? Because migrant workers, for the most part, are required to be paid the median wage\u2014$29.66, come February. How will that affect negotiations? I asked the Minister so many times to clarify that, and he was never able to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is, if people are in a negotiation, they\u2019re able to say, \u201CWell, I\u2019m a Kiwi worker and I\u2019m paid $24, $25. Now, the migrant worker standing next to me is paid nearly $30 an hour.\u201D Now, how will that affect the negotiation? Will that automatically ratchet up every fair pay agreement to what the migrant worker is paid standing next to that Kiwi worker? Now, the Minister was never able to answer that and it\u2019s important because he\u2019s in charge of both systems; he\u2019s put one in place for migrant workers and is unable to explain how that will impact on the negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat this fair pay agreement legislation will mean, and we\u2019ve traversed this a number of times, is that the small business that we\u2019ve mentioned\u2014well, the one we made up\u2014the business in Haast with two employees will be required to pay the same base floor as an Auckland business who employs 10,000 employees, regardless of any of their circumstances or costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, one of the things that was never addressed, again\u2014in any of the discussions\u2014was the unequal bargaining power of the large employers and the very, very small employers, because you can imagine\u2014sorry, this House could imagine\u2014the ability of large employers to get together, to negotiate for terms and conditions and rates that are not favourable to small employers, and thereby putting them at a significant disadvantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to finish by talking about productivity, because the Minister spent a lot of time today talking about productivity and his view\u2014and it\u2019s the same in the immigration space as well\u2014is that if one was to simply just pay more, there would be improved productivity, like those two things just are equal. If one was to pay more, then there will be more productivity automatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3445835439744ac8972d408347a0ea2\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Fantasy land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca0b4ba25944d2c81b74a99a4a1f57b\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Fantasy land, as my colleague says. It\u2019s interesting because the Minister then goes on to say, \u201CWell, the employers are getting undercut and therefore they need these fair pay agreements.\u201D But by his own logic, if they just paid more, they would get more productivity and would be better off. But those two things don\u2019t sit well together, but I\u2019ll leave that to members opposite to explain. And I look forward to voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022d45c0da64b4e426abef6492b31e9c4c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d45c0da64b4e426abef6492b31e9c4c0\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and a real pleasure to take a call in this third reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. Our COVID-19 recovery plan is about investing in our people, and fair pay agreements are, of course, part of that. As we have said often, we are building back better, and, in fact, what Minister Grant Robertson usually says is that there is a silver lining on the darkest of clouds, when COVID hit us. And at this moment in time, we are at that silver lining where we are building back better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThings have to get better, because for too long New Zealanders working in critical roles like our bus drivers, our cleaners, our supermarket workers, our aged-care workers, our security guards, and all those people who worked very hard during a pandemic to keep our country going and to keep us safe haven\u2019t had the bargaining power to ensure that they had better wages and conditions. So we\u2019ve had very long periods in New Zealand where workers did get their fair share, but over the last three decades those workers have fallen behind. We heard that very clearly before from Minister Meka Whaitiri\u2014the human cost, the cost to our communities\u2014when she spoke about what happened with the workers in the freezing works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI spoke in the second reading about that particular problem. It\u2019s a pattern that developed in New Zealand after the start of the Employment Contracts Act (ECA) 1991, and within a few years of the ECA starting, New Zealand saw wages and conditions for workers across many industries falling down and reduced significantly, and the freezing works were but one example that we heard about today. Opposition MPs shout about the good old times and how well we fared under the previous system. Wasn\u2019t it them who invented the term \u201Crock star economy\u201D, when we, in fact, had people starving and living under bridges? So that was their rock star economy under the current settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EBut one of the consequences of New Zealand\u2019s very weak employment protection was that the share of the economic growth went not to the workers; we actually became one of the countries in the OECD that had the lowest share of the pay in 2014. What happened is that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer\u2014actually, the poor had to work harder to even stand still. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually important to note that even at the time, the IMF and the OECD have actually come out and recognised that inequality is bad for social stability and even bad for economic growth. In fact, papers were published after the global financial crisis that argued for strengthening of bargaining, because it would also strengthen people\u2019s terms and conditions. So fair pay agreements (FPAs) will be part of that mahi. FPAs will ensure that parties, unions, and companies will be able to negotiate a set of industry standards below which it can\u2019t be negotiated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo the FPA legislation is going to change things significantly for workers and make sure that workers have fair, decent conditions and a voice in the workplace. Over the years that I\u2019ve been a delegate and a union president and an organiser in the union, I\u2019ve met many people who felt that they didn\u2019t have a voice. Now, we heard about Opposition MPs who\u2019ve said that everybody is the same, everybody can negotiate a contract, and I know we\u2019re going to hear more about that. But what they do forget is a fundamental aspect of the Employment Relations Act 2000 is where it\u2019s acknowledged that there\u2019s an inequality in the power in the employment relationship. That\u2019s why we have employment legislation and that\u2019s why we need fair pay agreements, because the inequality most affects the workers that are more vulnerable, and that\u2019s especially the case for our M\u0101ori, for our Pacific peoples, for our young people, and people with disabilities. They are overrepresented in the occupations that could actually benefit from these FPAs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOne of our submitters\u2014Council of Trade Unions Runanga\u2014noted the disproportionate benefits that M\u0101ori would receive from FPAs, and said that \u201CGiven they are particularly affected by a lack of standards, they would benefit from a system of better wage fixing than the one we have, which has failed them.\u201D We heard similar sentiment from the Council of Trade Unions Komiti Pasefika, for Pacific peoples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWell, workers are mentioned in my very first speech on this important piece of legislation, workers like Leava, Jess, Sui, and Gadi. They have suffered under our current system. They don\u2019t feel empowered to speak up, and they also don\u2019t feel they have a say in their working conditions. So the workers are at the centre of this legislation, and that\u2019s why I want to mention a couple of their stories here in this third reading speech; I\u2019m sure they will be listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ELeava came to us talking about working in excess of 70 hours, but after three years in the same job, she is still on that casual contract, earning not more than minimum wage. She hardly ever sees her family because she works night shifts, so when she works, her kids sleep, and when she sleeps, her kids are awake. But it also means she can never help them with their homework, she can never help them with their activities, she can\u2019t take them to church. She is basically never there for them. The company she works for recently lost its tender and they had a different contractor come in. Leava remained with the different contractor but her hours got cut; the workload stayed the same. So again, she can\u2019t speak up because she has seen with other colleagues what happens when she speaks up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOne of her colleagues is Gadi. She is a security guard. She has real mental health issues due to feeling that she has failed as a mother. This is the human cost that we heard Minister Meka Whaitiri talk about. Gadi started to think about suicide and she went to her doctor. She works 12 hours a day, five days a week, on the minimum wage. It\u2019s a rotation. She either works 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. or 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., but there\u2019s no training, there\u2019s no career progression, and she describes her life as just being in survival mode.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESui is a security guard who works alone at carparks, at railway stations, and often she doesn\u2019t feel safe. She\u2019s casual, and it means her roster can change at any moment in time. She may work three hours at the library in Mount Roskill, and then she works three hours in M\u0101ngere, but if the distances are too far and she can\u2019t use public transport, she basically has to decline the job because she doesn\u2019t have a car. She said she can\u2019t plan anything in her life because of the uncertainty of her work and always having to be ready because she may be called to work at very short notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, all those workers have one thing in common: they work in industries that are trapped in what has been called a race to the bottom. So many of their employers would probably like to pay better and would like to look after them and give them better terms and conditions, but they are unable to do so because their competitor offers less, and as soon as they offer more, they will be out of a job. So in the case of Sui, Jess, Leava, and Gadi, their employer ends up cutting costs by cutting their hours, but not the amount of work. They make them pay for their own uniforms, they take away training opportunities, but they are required to do the same workload when their hours are cut. That means the quality of their work suffers and health and safety suffers as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister spoke about our friend Helen Kelly, and I once heard Helen Kelly describe this particular problem as a \u201Cjobs narrative that is being driven up to hammer any worker who might want to have a voice in the economy or world of work.\u201D She told her story like this: \u201Cwork is a benefit, business is the benefactor, and workers are merely the beneficiaries. Workers should be grateful for a job; a job is a privilege.\u201D Employers should be lauded for the contribution they make to growing economic wealth. But as the Minister has said, both parties in this working relationship should be able to reap the benefits of their hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo FPAs will help good employers by stopping the race to the bottom and getting undercut by the bad employers. So in the case of Leava, the cleaner on 70 hours a week on minimum wage, her employer actually wants to do the right thing, and like many good employers, they want to offer better pay, but, of course, if they do that, under the current setting, they would be disadvantaged. Without a floor, an employer who wants to do the right thing can\u2019t do so because to be successful, they need to drive down terms and conditions of their workers. I spoke about this in the second reading, because it\u2019s exactly what happened with the bus tendering process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo FPAs are really common overseas. We see it in Scandinavian countries. Germany and Denmark are examples of countries that have really successfully worked with sector-wide agreements in place, and, of course, did I mention Australia? The Opposition frequently mentioned that the wages are better there. Well, Australia has been operating with this system for as long as I can remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo on flexibility\u2014I googled this term because it\u2019s been used frequently by the Opposition. Flexibility says, \u201Creduce minimum wages, reduce the power of trade unions, make it easier to hire and fire workers, and support zero-hour contracts in legislation.\u201D That\u2019s where we would be heading if they were to get another go at it. So I\u2019d like to thank the Minister for taking this important legislation to the House; our officials, advisers, the Parliamentary Counsel Office and Office of the Clerk for their advice and support; the members on the Education and Workforce Committee; the Fair Pay Agreement Working Group; and all the submitters and all the unions who for so long held the tide back and worked so hard to get us to this point. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa3f946e29fa424d9ee82de09b8701d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa3f946e29fa424d9ee82de09b8701d1\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s not often I feel like singing and dancing in celebration in this House. Right now I\u2019m going to save you all from that trauma, but I\u2019ve got the feeling inside, because this is truly a day to celebrate. This is a turning point for our country where we start to bring back some balance, and that is about raising those who have been doing the work, the work of keeping us safe through a pandemic\u2014of cleaning our spaces, of providing us with food, of getting us around, of doing that caring work for our kids and our elderly and our people, of producing and packing and getting that food to the supermarkets and those stores. So many jobs; so many of our people who have been looking after us\u2014those of us, whether it be transitory or not, who are in a position of privilege in this country. This is about raising them to the place they deserve, to enable them to get some benefit from their work, benefit that helps them stand tall and proud, that recognises that their knowledge may have some value to their workplace and to their industry; to enable them to afford rent and put food on the table and pay an electricity bill\u2014unattainable things, at the moment, for so many people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do just need to say that in terms of the context of the inequality that is not being mentioned by the National Party or the ACT Party in this debate, New Zealand had the world\u2019s largest increase in income inequality, the largest increase in the world, in the 1980s and 1990s because of decisions made in this place. It wasn\u2019t a change of the work habits of our people or their ability to bargain; no, it was the decisions made in this place to take away the power and the ability to collectively organise from working people, as well as the slashing of benefits\u2014we\u2019ve still got some work to do on that. But this is about restoring that. It was such a profound increase in inequality, where the top 1 percent\u2019s incomes doubled over those 20 years while they only increased for those at the bottom by about 30 percent, from low rates, and the value of the top 10 percent became nine times what the lowest-earning 10 percent was, as opposed to the five times more it had been before. That was a profound social change that has impacted every single person in this community, and it brought me to tears when the Hon Meka Whaitiri was describing the impact of that on her community. That was a familiar story to me, from having grown up through that time in Invercargill. It has impacted communities in every part of this country, communities of geographic location as well as communities of identity, and that some of our young people have never known decent pay or stable work conditions is a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s what National and ACT are defending, that flexibility that they want to hang on to, which has resulted in Pasifika women earning 25 percent of the wage of a P\u0101keh\u0101 man\u2014entrenched, embedded inequality that is unjustifiable and is only a result of discrimination and a thing they call unconscious bias, that is a result of our laws. This is a point of turning that around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is not just about pay. We talk about pay, but it\u2019s also about\u2014the \u201Cmandatory to decide\u201D aspects will be wages, hours, training and development, and leave. National says, \u201CHow do those things impact productivity?\u201D Work a 16-hour day with no training, day after day after day\u2014you\u2019re going to be a peak performer, aren\u2019t you? It may be a low cost of business, but you\u2019re not going to be as productive as you would with training and clear hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThat is an aspect of this that we haven\u2019t discussed much that I do want to just touch on, which is that the fair pay agreements (FPAs) are bringing working people\u2019s representatives together with business to actually tackle problems across industries. We\u2019re seeing this with bus drivers; the potential in hospitality I think is huge, as another example where we know the potential of bringing those voices together will help our businesses. There\u2019s been research done that has shown that poor leadership in our businesses is costing the economy $5 billion a year. We do not have good managers in this country as a rule, and that is backed up by research. But, flexibility! The core problem with the leadership is a focus on driving down costs and not recognising the value of people, in investing in them and listening to their experiences and being able to learn from them to improve the business. Fair pay agreements create an ability to actually address issues right across a whole industry that will make work life significantly better for workers, but also a chance to actually reduce wastage and improve productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe do need to recognise, too, that status quo, where, in hospitality, the research that was given to us in the committee was that half of workers surveyed in hospo had experienced harassment, 80 percent of them had not been given any training, over 20 percent of them weren\u2019t getting their legal entitlements of holiday pay or rest breaks, and not even 30 percent had even been made aware of their health and safety risks. This is the status quo that National and ACT are fighting so desperately for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114203ade99141d096eb48511c204b79\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: I hope you can validate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11ccac3c4914d51a2efec0e3bd7d27e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it\u2019s an Auckland University of Technology verified survey\u2014quite well respected; quite verified, I would say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThese are the things that this bill has the potential to change, and I really just want to touch\u2014we\u2019ve heard from National saying that, you know, the problem of this is that once you start an FPA it can never be stopped, you can never take it out. I mean, you know, there are issues in terms of review periods, and they\u2019ve got time frames on them and all of that, but we\u2019ll ignore that and we\u2019ll say they can never be taken out. But, you know, as if we need to be scared of better conditions\u2014frightening. Frightening that we might get better conditions. Frightening that we might sit down with the employers and have a discussion\u2014frightening. I\u2019m not really sure what world they live in that that is so threatening, and that they see the unions as frightening when the unions are the collective of working people. But that tells us what they think of working people\u2014that they\u2019re scared of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227464c6889b0c49df82efbe2a049c1e7f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762eaf751d9d4a56b02b09a072b444ec\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: That is what I hear in that argument when they\u2019re saying, \u201CUnions!\u201D as if they\u2019re so bad. Actually, they\u2019re scared of working people, and I don\u2019t think they should be. Like, part of me wants to say, \u201CAnd they should be, because union power, we\u2019re going to take them down, that 1 percent.\u201D I do hope that does happen, but, actually, that is not what this is setting up. This is just setting up a process of bringing people together to find that base rate that enables people to live decent lives. It\u2019s not an awful thing. It is a thing that will help transform our country, and we are proud to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00229f090c4f026b4ebea832252603390c6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f090c4f026b4ebea832252603390c6f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that\u2019s a great example of where this debate has got to. It\u2019s become emotive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7576ae19ca24e5595261c96ffd60a26\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Factual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c215d8b220d4554ae386e147994088f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014versus fact, and I think that\u2019s a great example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWe come to this place with different experiences. I\u2019ve been in the workforce for 43 years and I\u2019ve been an employee for that length of time. I\u2019ve belonged to unions, I\u2019ve had employment contracts, and I\u2019ve owned a business for the last 12 years. This legislation is a silly piece of legislation. It\u2019s a silly name for the bill. It\u2019s not fair, it\u2019s not about pay; it\u2019s about everything else\u2014well, not only about pay. And it\u2019s not an agreement if one party can make a decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t oppose fair pay, we actually think the opposite: employees who work hard should be paid really well if they are productive for the business. Good, hard-working, loyal employees are the ones that are going to suffer from this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EAnd Michael Wood has said that compression\u2014compression\u2014of wages is a good thing. And I think workers need to really understand what that means: if you work hard, you\u2019re not going to get the reward that you deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a38da00f76b4a3cbabe6de080125cc3\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aebbca1fdbad4cf1b4e967fd79e7a390\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely true. Such a backward idea, it shows a complete ignorance of what actually happens in businesses around the country. We\u2019ve heard this rhetoric of a race to the bottom. Here\u2019s Retail New Zealand: supermarket grocery workers\u2019 average wage, $24.82; food beverage cafe workers\u2019 average wage, $25.92; hardware, building, garden, and pet supplies average wage, $28.23. The minimum wage is $21.20. That doesn\u2019t include in-store discounts, the flexible working hours that the employees want, and other stuff that just doesn\u2019t make consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill takes the rights of the worker to plan their own destiny. And even if they don\u2019t want any involvement in a fair pay agreement (FPA), they have no choice. And in the retail sector, as was mentioned before, half a percent of the employees can start an FPA\u2014that 99.5 percent; if they don\u2019t want it, tough luck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWe will see a return to the industrial chaos of the 1970s and 1980s industrial awards, an era where the Minister wasn\u2019t around, I\u2019m sure, and lots of his colleagues. I grew up in a very pro-union household where my father was a marine engineer and I remember well the strikes of the rail ferries, generally around Christmas time\u2014Christmas time. One particular one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ba940539bd4a02bca68a60f4e2c913\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Have you read the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e623914cb24915a179de1ef075f225\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, absolutely. I could see the dangers of unions as a 12-year-old. And just watch this space when the beds are going to be want to be made and included in FPAs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe current employment contracts legislation has provided for the necessary safeguards and flexibility for employees, and they\u2019ve proven to be very successful over the last 30 years. The fact is that, after declining through the 1980s, employees\u2019 pay and conditions have improved substantially since the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act in 1991. There\u2019s a chart that Mr Wood will ignore, but it actually shows that, since 1991, things have been improving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EEmployment contracts\u2014it\u2019s as if the previous speakers I\u2019ve been listening to have never seen or heard an employment contract. They cover everything\u2014everything\u2014that this bill purports to cover and even more. This is just an absolute waste of time. I was asked the other day, how is a 16-year-old meant to negotiate with a 50-year-old employer. And the employment agreement specifically says you take it away, you get advice, and after a week, you come back\u2014it\u2019s all covered. And I had to ask whether that person, in particular, thought that 16-year-olds should get the vote as well. And you can imagine what they said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EOnce again, the most divisive Government in this country, in New Zealand\u2019s history, has excelled in pitting one section of society against another, whether its landlords against tenants, farmers against townies, and employers against employees. The philosophy of divide and conquer is obvious, and it\u2019s no more evident than in the bill. Clause 92D: \u201CEach employee bargaining side for a proposed FPA must use its best endeavours to ensure that M\u0101ori employees are represented effectively in the bargaining process \u2026 seeking and considering feedback from representatives of M\u0101ori employees;\u201D, etc. No mention of Chinese, Pasifika, women, or disabilities\u2014I have a lot of faith that New Zealanders will treat this division with the contempt it deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EBusiness owners, those New Zealanders with a work ethic and a vision, were once employees. They know what it\u2019s like to work hard and get ahead, or at least try. Anyone who owned or bought a business before 2017 must be wondering why they bothered. Before taking the step to buy a business, due diligence has to be done to make sure the business is viable\u2014you can pay your bills, you can pay your rates, your insurance, your everything else, but, most importantly, wages. Make sure you can pay the wages. Business owners pay their staff before they pay themselves. They have had to take out loans in order to pay their staff. Business owners aren\u2019t the evil, evil enemy that Labour likes to portray them as.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EBut all businesses have gotten are constant attacks from this Government, with the minimum wage, the extra sick leave, and extra statutory holidays, to name a few. They even tried to push through a bill which would make employers liable for their employees attending parent-teacher interviews. They don\u2019t even think\u2014they don\u2019t even think\u2014that annual leave is worthy of their kids. I heard Jan Tinetti say today, in the House, that you can\u2019t expect to write about or understand something if you haven\u2019t experienced it. And I think it really does explain Labour\u2019s ignorance when it comes to business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis insidious bill amounts to unionism by stealth. New Zealanders can join a union if they want to, they shouldn\u2019t be forced into joining one just because of Labour\u2019s blind ideology. It\u2019s bullying to the extreme\u2014forcing people to participate in a process they don\u2019t want to, and threatening the already overburdened business owners with bureaucratic nonsense and ridiculous conditions. That\u2019s bullying. And the scary thing is Labour and the Greens just can\u2019t see it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis bill is unnecessary, complicated, and it will cause more problems than it seeks to fix. I\u2019ll end with a quote from a submitter who has 40 years\u2019 experience in collective bargaining, both for employees and employers. \u201CWe anticipate workplace divisions, inflation, vulnerable-business closures, unemployment, lowering of the New Zealand productivity rating, increase in disputes, and lots of emotional disruptions and litigation. A marked increase in mental health issues will likely result due to individuals sensing they have lost another control over their lives.\u201D For the sake of the hard-working employees of this country, ACT opposes this bill and we\u2019ll get rid of it as soon as we can, next year. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51b4789467547dc8a80a645482a8101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51b4789467547dc8a80a645482a8101\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, ka nui te koa o te ng\u0101kau ki te t\u016B ki te k\u014Drero i runga i t\u0113nei kaupapa o t\u0113nei ahiahi\u2014it is a pleasure to stand and speak on this significant bill for its third reading: the Fair Pay Agreements Bill. The day has finally arrived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn the general debate, we have just had the Leader of the Opposition start with a folk tale, and I want to counter with another one, one we all know. It is the tale of Chicken Little. Chicken Little was hit on the head by the falling acorn, and we know how the story goes. Chicken Little concludes not that the acorn has fallen but that the sky is falling, and Chicken Little rushes around telling all of the farmyard of the imminent destruction they all face. There are some similarities here to Chicken Little in the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, Michael Wood, go over the list of improvements for the lives of working people that the Government has brought in in the last five years and the National Party\u2019s opposition to that. We heard about how they opposed the increase to sick leave during a pandemic, we heard about how they opposed the increases to the minimum wage, and we heard about how they opposed the introduction of Matariki as a holiday, but it is not just in this term of Parliament that we have heard the same oppositional rhetoric from the National Party to increases to working rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is something that has happened again and again, and if we look back to the Employment Relations Act 2000, we see that very similar arguments were used as have been used in this bill today. The Rt Hon Jenny Shipley, in the first reading of the Employment Relations Act 2000, alleged at the time that Labour was \u201CTaking New Zealand back to ideas that most people thought were extinct\u201D and that it was \u201Cno way to forge the future for this country.\u201D Does that sound familiar? It sounds quite familiar to what we heard from Scott Simpson, who was saying that we were old-fashioned and that we were taking the world back to the 1960s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThen we look at what Max Bradford said in relation to the Employment Relations Act 2000. He said, \u201Cwhy is the Labour-Alliance Government digging up the old processes, the old institutions, the old dinosaurs of the past in order to get it? \u2026 We have a grand march backwards into the past\u201D\u2014same playbook, same old tired arguments, same unfounded scaremongering about the improvement of workers\u2019 rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo why is the National Party telling New Zealanders to believe that fair pay agreements will really cause the sky to fall\u2014why? Because workers are getting a fairer deal. The sky did not fall because of the improvements to workers\u2019 rights in the year 2000 under the Employment Relations Act\u2014in fact, we\u2019ve heard from the other side how things have just got better\u2014and the sky will not fall because of fair pay agreements in 2022. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EGood employers will take advantage of the new opportunities to compete on quality and service and not slashing the wages of the people they depend on. Good employers and their representatives will participate in bargaining in good faith. Good employers\u2014and I note most employers in New Zealand are good employers\u2014will often say that their employees are their greatest asset, and while this is true, it is important to remember that workers are far more than the return for their labour. They are people, and we have heard again and again from this side of the House \u201CHe aha te mea nui o te ao? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.\u201D They are people, and they deserve respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWorking people deserve to live a life of dignity. They should feel secure and be part of a society that treats them fairly, and this is what fair pay agreements are all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EGood employers will adapt to fair pay agreements, they will go about their business, and they will turn a profit, only this time, under fair pay agreements, they will have more secure, contented, and, likely, productive employees. The sun will shine and the sky will not fall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOn a more serious note, the fair pay agreements that the Government is bringing in are to build a fairer and more resilient society for all New Zealanders: business owners, workers, unions\u2014people. It is why we came to this place\u2014to make this type of change, to change the frameworks that we work under to make a better New Zealand for New Zealanders, and strengthening our industrial relations framework through the fair pay agreements makes a fairer and more equitable society for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI want to take a moment here to thank the unions and working people that they represent. This has been a long time coming and has been the result of the work of many, many people, and I just want to note a few of the unions who I know are listening to this debate today. The Council of Trade Unions, E t\u016B, FIRST Union, the Public Service Association, and the Tertiary Education Union are just some that I note who represent hundreds of thousands of working people who will benefit from these fair pay agreements. So I just want to note that this, today, is a result of many, many hours of work and many struggles from many different people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe Minister has said that we must value work. When I came to this House, in my maiden speech I said that I was brought up to believe that a job worth doing was a job worth having, and a job worth having in this country and a job that must be done in this country should be treated with respect. This is fundamentally what this framework of fair pay agreements is all about. As the Minister has noted, we have been in this party fighting for the rights of working people for over 106 years. This was a commitment in our manifesto to bring in fair pay agreements, and that, today, is exactly what we are going to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just want to note, before I conclude, a comment made by the ACT member Chris Baillie, talking about how there\u2019ll be an increase in strikes. It is fundamentally untrue that there will be strikes as a result of this piece of legislation. Strikes are not permitted\u2014some have argued they should be. But they are not\u2014if you read the legislation\u2014allowed under this bill, so it is purely disinformation to suggest otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn the first reading, I reflected on the legacy of union leader and my friend and mentor Helen Kelly. We have heard again from the Minister today about the work that she did that resulted in this bill before the House. In my maiden speech, I shared Helen\u2019s vision that she articulated in 2013 at the Labour Party conference, and I will quote from this: \u201CWe need a new vision \u2026 one that recognises the best of human nature and \u2026 that our individual happiness is dependent on each other\u2019s rights and needs as much as our own.\u201D\u2014our individual happiness is dependent on each other\u2019s rights and needs as much as our own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements recognise that as a society, we can do better. We can set minimum standards across occupations and industries, and it will be better for everyone in New Zealand once that floor is set. Because Helen said that our individual happiness is dependent on each other\u2019s rights and needs as much as our own, I would like to note that through these fair pay agreements, that is what we are progressing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EHelen Kelly passed away in 2016, but her commitment to working people did not die. It lives on in this bill today, which I, again, proudly commend to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002264ee7842372543c3b9a77224c144d4bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264ee7842372543c3b9a77224c144d4bf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Sam Uffindell\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022a496c6c5d06a4ac2aa57de926b25b84b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a496c6c5d06a4ac2aa57de926b25b84b\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly\u2014you obviously know where I\u2019m going to go with this\u2014I just want to thank everyone that\u2019s been involved. I know there\u2019s a lot of people here and, obviously, on that side of the House as well, for whom this means a lot. So I appreciate that this is a big moment for you all and I just want to recognise all your hard work on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI would also like to start with the Minister because there are a few things that weren\u2019t addressed during the previous stage, mainly around how it would apply to professional services. I know that this is probably not intended to address that, but this is a very big part of the economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f42362f3674e5b8165a5666dab6181\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the stockbrokers and the merchant bankers, that\u2019s who we\u2019re here for, buddy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212821d2de0114021939ed6de710d871a\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it was never talked about. It\u2019s a very real concern, though, Minister, and I would like to have understood how it would apply and you never answered me. I also continually asked for feedback on how this would work when people, say, in sales roles\u2014and you\u2019ve done a bit of selling before as well, I know that\u2014and how that would apply when they are paid on commission instead of just a wage. Because the truth is a lot of people don\u2019t just get paid a wage; they get paid a commission instead. A lot of people\u2014and you mocked me for this, when I was talking about technology companies, young enterprising start-ups around the country\u2014instead of paying higher wages, they give employees share plans. I know that most people don\u2019t get that Minister, but some people do, and that\u2019s where a lot of growth is going to be in the future. It\u2019s already happening overseas, and that\u2019s why I asked it. I wasn\u2019t just having a laugh. I wanted to know why we are applying it in such a broad-based manner. And that is what you have done. I can get where it does apply, and, yes, I know that everyone\u2019s really passionate and that\u2019s probably what everyone here represents, but it\u2019s across the whole economy, across all industries. You are really going to hammer people, because it takes no account for the differences in businesses, it takes no account for the small businesses, it takes no account for people who pay or live in sales roles, and I really wanted that addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EMy colleague Erica Stanford also talked about migrant workers, and close to where I live\u2014in the country\u2014we have Recognised Seasonal Employer workers around and they are on the median wage. They are above Kiwis, and we wanted to know how that would operate, and we didn\u2019t get an answer for it. They are also entitled to minimum hours the whole time\u2014Kiwis are not. That wasn\u2019t addressed. You didn\u2019t listen to Business New Zealand; they doubled down on how bad this was. Despite widespread concerns\u2014the coercive nature of this\u2014you retained all the bad elements. In fact, it actually got worse after the select committee process, and that\u2019s what the Employers and Manufacturers Association said as well. You were also given advice about how it wasn\u2019t going to be all rosy like you thought it would by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and by Treasury, and they were ignored. That\u2019s a common theme with this Government, that you just don\u2019t consult properly with people because you don\u2019t really believe in consultation outside of your own echo chambers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225277ef1b2a0240c7ae07587de4e47517\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! This is a warning I\u2019ve given this particular member in the past. Please don\u2019t bring me into it. Whenever you use the term \u201Cyou\u201D, you\u2019re not referring to the Minister or anyone else in this House; you\u2019re referring to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db1da46472a449382f4cfb891ae0361\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Speaker. I am learning and will continue to learn. Thank you for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EPeople on that side of the House don\u2019t get into consulting. People on that side of the House live in echo chambers. People on that side of the House actually haven\u2019t had a lot of experience in the workplace. I read something recently about your top five: Ardern, Robertson, Woods, Wood, and Hipkins\u2014five years in business, and I know a bit of that was selling fish and chips and Christmas trees, but I\u2019m trying to get you guys, and have been this whole time, to understand how the employer could look at it. And you never have, and the consultation that you\u2019ve engaged in has been very poor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo I will strongly stand against this bill, and I am looking forward to when there is a National Government in power next year, and there will be, because that side of the House has put constant costs on to businesses; whether it be inflation; whether it be the Minister not letting workers in here and having an enormous bottleneck in that area; whether it be the jobs tax that\u2019s coming up; huge, reckless spending; and now this. The businesses in New Zealand\u2014when you go talk to them\u2014have got real concerns with this Government. So I am looking forward to us coming into power and repealing this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00225917fada3bed4b9ca8ae1b2ea7a8104c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225917fada3bed4b9ca8ae1b2ea7a8104c\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It is a great, great privilege, and I am very humbled, to stand and take a call on the Fair Pay Agreements Bill for the third reading\u2014finally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a lot from the other side of the House\u2014from Chicken Little and his mates\u2014about how old-fashioned we are. There is nothing old-fashioned about approaching a problem collectively. As a society, we look after each other, we lift each other up, we get through the tough times, and we cherish the good times. There is nothing old-fashioned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESomething that is old-fashioned is something that came in over 30 years ago: Employment Contracts Act. That divided this country, forced us into neoliberal economic policies\u2014that is old-fashioned. Even the IMF says it ain\u2019t working. We\u2019ve had plenty of time, an entire generation, to work out that it didn\u2019t work. It is a failed experiment, it is old-fashioned, and it is time we move on, and thank goodness!\u2014because of the huge amount of work we\u2019ve already heard and acknowledged today from workers, from advocates, from staff, from members of Parliament, from members of our communities for years\u2014this old-fashioned idea is out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAn interesting observation when we reflect on the years of work that has gone into this bill, is the diversity of world views that came to the table. We\u2019ve heard about Helen Kelly and Jim Bolger; they came and they worked on this because they knew it was important. Jim Bolger said, when he accepted the offer to chair the working group, \u201CThe goal of the report was to support workers and firms to drive productivity growth and share the benefits.\u201D Who can argue with that? We came together, we did the mahi, and we are here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the other side \u201Cget a better job\u201D about workers who aren\u2019t getting paid enough or who have poor conditions. Fair pay agreements are about making your job better. Some has got to do it and we are grateful that they do. It isn\u2019t about getting a better job; it\u2019s about your job being better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the security workers who do not have the right gear or training to deal with situations that none of the rest of us are able to or want to deal with. We heard from the bus drivers who have split shifts and never see their families and can\u2019t coach the next soccer star. We\u2019ve heard from our cleaners about the fact that they never see their babies or their grandchildren. The work that they have done to make their children\u2019s lives better cost them the living of their own lives. They work so hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI just need to finish\u2014I could go on for a long time, and I\u2019m really aware that we\u2019ve got progress to make. I just want to, I guess, talk about the bargaining. This is about collaboration; it will be able to be nimble and responsive because people will have to sit down. They won\u2019t be able to go on strike and they won\u2019t be able to walk away. There is an obligation to conclude because it\u2019s important work to be done for all of society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Hon Meka Whaitiri when she talked about our communities that were decimated. My husband\u2019s family comes from Waitara. My father-in-law was a freezing worker and a staunch union leader. We have communities like Waitara and Patea who are still suffering today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis legislation, when it has passed, will make every one of us in this country richer; not just with a coin, but for our lives. It is with this, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022c536fa0cabd449ee8ce331bbfbb4c171\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c536fa0cabd449ee8ce331bbfbb4c171\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a privilege to take a call on this particular bill, the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, because I worked as an employment lawyer for 25 years. So I first want to acknowledge the pain that Minister Whaitiri talked about. That pain is something I saw repeatedly in my career. I saw those rundown towns. I saw the dependence on the State from people who were actually working. I saw the stress that it caused. I saw the hopelessness that it caused. I saw the mental health issues it caused. I saw the alcoholism it caused. I saw all the problems that are caused by just not being able to make ends meet. That is an undignified thing, and it is absolutely a shame in this country that we were ever in that position, and we are actually having to build our way out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe whole point of this legislation is to focus on our most\u2014most\u2014vulnerable. So when Erica Stanford is perplexed by the public interest test, I would urge those listening to this to have a look at that test, because it protects those who have little bargaining power, those who have low pay, those who have long hours, those who have no career path. It gives them better pay, more bargaining power, better hours, and a career path. That\u2019s what Government is for, to protect people like that. That\u2019s our job, and I\u2019d ask Erica Stanford, amongst others, to look at it, because she is talking often about the protection of migrants. So she has those protections in mind, and we need to actually join the dots here, people. We need to make sure everyone in this country earns a decent living. So I\u2019m not actually that worried if we actually have to meet the cost of migrant labour in our own hometowns. I\u2019d like them to be earning the same amount. I think that\u2019s a really good start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I talked about the other day, when I was talking about this debate, was a woman who had haunted me. It\u2019s really hard when you\u2019re a lawyer, because you can\u2019t tell many of the war stories. The best ones are, of course, secret. But it was a situation where the woman was on such low pay that it was just above the minimum. She was in her sixties, and she had worn herself out because she was a caregiver, and you lift people. The answer for that was to frustrate her contract: no one\u2019s fault, she goes, small payout. And I never felt right about it. I was dealing with a lawyer on the other side who earned, probably, $600,000, and for him, I suspect, it was a game. I suspect it was quite fun to knock that woman around and to get the lowest possible price for his client. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a funny story. I think it\u2019s utterly disgusting that that happened in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also had a case with a beautiful union called the Amalgamated Workers Union, and it was for the workers up at Golden Bay Cement. In that case, it was about people who actually fought for a career path. They bargained for it, and they got that career path, and then the employer said, \u201COh, you can\u2019t have that, because only the union members get it. So you can\u2019t have it, because that would be discrimination.\u201D Well, we took that case all the way through the courts system, and a full court found that that was not a problem and that they had bargained for it and it was important. But I still remember the evidence in that case about how important that career path was, because that career path meant that those workers could go from lifting concrete, lifting bags, to something that was actually going to be sustainable through their entire career. That\u2019s an incredibly important thing if you\u2019re in the working class\u2014that you can keep working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI have never forgotten that, but I\u2019ve also always contrasted the two stories. One person was a female, she was isolated, she was in a different situation; the others had collectivised, they were working together. What this actually will do is mean that the worker that I was talking about\u2014the caregiver\u2014has a hope, can actually be protected, can actually be given at least a minimum. That\u2019s all it does. It actually doesn\u2019t take away great flexibility. You can always argue for more. You can always bargain for more. These are the minimum standards. And, actually, what it does is give, also, an employer who does the right thing the chance not to be undercut by somebody who\u2019s prepared to cut wages or terms and conditions or career paths. It actually levels the playing field, and, for me, feels like an incredibly important piece of the puzzle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to just move to something really sad that happened to me this week. I found out that a person who volunteered for me, who was my friend, Peter Barrett, had died suddenly. Peter was a lovely guy who had a lot of very strong values. He had opened a business with his partner, who had actually come in as a migrant and she had been working as a masseuse, and they\u2019d opened this beautiful spa. He pays the living wage. He was very clear that that was one of the things they wanted to do. You can see the situation here was one where his partner would have come in on very low wages, and actually now she was in a business, working with her partner, and they were paying the living wage to their workers. Well, why would it be fair that someone else, somewhere down the road, could open a spa and actually pay workers less? Why wouldn\u2019t we want there to be a minimum standard for those workers? Because it\u2019s not very much. It\u2019s not asking the sun, the moon, and the stars. Actually, if you don\u2019t pay people properly, who do you think pays? This is one for the National Party: who has been paying? The taxpayer has. We have been subsidising those workers over and over again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe have to put food in schools, and that\u2019s because we need food in schools under our current economy. And I am proud we do it, but one day I want it to be a situation in New Zealand where wages for everyone are dignified, where everyone stands on their own two feet, and that is a society I want to live in. And that is a stark contrast between the National Party and the Labour Party today\u2014that we understand that; that we understand where we\u2019re going. Now, it is true that it is worth remembering that there are epiphanies in this place. That Mr Bolger, the Prime Minister of this country for some time, actually was the person who was the author of the report. He\u2019s the architect of this report. And what he said, which is true, is that we work longer hours in this country and we are less productive than most OECD countries. So he crafted this, which has turned into this bill, and it is a bill that actually is all about fair wages, it\u2019s about sharing benefits, and it\u2019s about higher productivity. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002275d1cf0bd52848d380e037853564e026\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275d1cf0bd52848d380e037853564e026\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, here we are, five years to the day since this Government was sworn in, I believe\u2014five years\u2014and the Prime Minister\u2019s in Antarctica. She doesn\u2019t want to celebrate five years; Parliament\u2019s sitting and she\u2019s in Antarctica. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat are we celebrating after five years? Endless failure to achieve anything. When it comes to housing, what have they achieved? Where are the KiwiBuild houses? Nowhere to be found. When it comes to emergency waiting times at hospitals, nothing there. Mental health? Nothing there. Education? They haven\u2019t even got the kids to school. Law and order? The ram raiders are running all over the place. The slow tram coming down Dominion Road? Not to be found. But there is one thing. There is one thing that this Government can do; it can pass bills. That\u2019s one thing it can do. And so, yes, they\u2019ve got a majority to pass a bill and they\u2019re all here and they\u2019re celebrating the union movement. They can pass a bill. That\u2019s the only thing this Government is capable of doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd, yes, there\u2019s not a person in this country who doesn\u2019t want to see higher wages for New Zealanders. Everybody wants higher wages and they want better resources. The question is: how do you achieve that sustainably? This Government believes the way to improve wages is to pass a law to have higher wages. That\u2019s how they think they get higher wages. Or the other way. There\u2019s two ways you can get higher wages under Labour\u2019s thinking. One is to pass legislation to legislate for higher wages. The second way is to shut the borders and stop immigrants coming in. And so if you have no immigrants coming through, you have a worker shortage, therefore wages go up. That\u2019s their approach to having higher wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWell, our view is if you want to have sustainably higher wages, you need to have more productive businesses. That\u2019s how you get sustainably higher wages. Productivity is improved by investment and by higher skills and by all those things that are not related to Governments passing legislation. I stood up during the committee stage and tried to suggest to the Minister that perhaps one of the things that could be considered and talked about during the development of a fair pay agreement might be the productivity of the business. And, of course, he voted it down. He did not want any discussion of productivity as part of these misnamed fair pay agreements. So I can commit to the House that if National is fortunate enough to win the next election, this will be gone. We\u2019ll be repealing this. It will not exist. So you can campaign on the mandatory union deals all you like over the next year, because they won\u2019t survive a change of Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhy are people concerned about their living standards? It\u2019s because we\u2019ve got uncontrolled inflation. Wages are going slower than inflation under this Government. New Zealanders are going backwards. They\u2019re struggling because of the cost of living crisis. Wages are behind and people are feeling the pinch. And we\u2019ve heard lots of stories of people who are struggling in this country. There\u2019s no question. There are many New Zealanders who are struggling; not just people who are on wages but also many small business operations are struggling to stay afloat, and they are being confronted every day, first, by the difficulty of finding workers, and, second, by the difficulty of dealing with all the additional costs and regulations that this Government passes and a whole host of other challenges that they face. If they are a small retail business, they\u2019re facing ram raids and smash and grabs every second day. They\u2019re struggling with all sorts of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut what this Government knows how to do is add extra cost and difficulty for those businesses as well. So their response is to legislate for higher wages, to stem the flow of immigration, and hope that will force up wages. That, of course, is not sustainable. What you need is higher productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo if we look at this bill, what does it do? What it does is it undermines the flexible labour markets that have been one of the pillars of our relative economic success over the last three decades. It\u2019s part of the reason why we have such low unemployment rates in this country, and they want to unwind that to a one-size-fits-all approach whereby if you\u2019re a cleaning operation\u2014an example has been used many times\u2014and if you employ 5,000 people you still have to deal with the same situation as if you were a mum and dad operator with two people. Michael Wood has recognised that there is a need for regional variation\u2014he recognises, grudgingly, I think, that there\u2019s a difference between Auckland and Eket\u0101huna and the needs and requirements of businesses operating in both those environments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a little bit of flexibility for regions, but he refuses to recognise that there\u2019s differences between very large businesses and small businesses. What you can cope with if you\u2019ve got 10,000 employees in the supermarket context, in terms of terms and conditions and hourly breaks and penal rates and holiday time and all those sorts of things, research and development and training\u2014all those things you can cope with if you\u2019ve got 10,000 employees are not necessarily things you can cope with if you\u2019ve got two employees. But they don\u2019t recognise that. So if you\u2019re running a little Four Square in Hokianga, you\u2019ve got to be exactly the same as if you\u2019re running a big operation in central Auckland, and that doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s not practical and it\u2019s going to make it difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd so on the one hand, the Government spends all its time saying it\u2019s going to get tough on the supermarkets, \u201CWe\u2019re going to get the Commerce Commission in. We\u2019re going to go hard on the duopoly.\u201D, and, on the other, they\u2019re bringing in legislation which makes it easier for the big players. Who do you think is going to be actually doing the negotiations for these fair pay agreements? Do you think is going to be the little players, the little mum and dad operations? No. Do you think they\u2019re going to have any involvement in the negotiations? Not at all. It will be the big players who will negotiate; they\u2019ll negotiate, naturally, because what will come out of the whole process will be things that suit the bigger players. It\u2019s always the case with regulation; that\u2019s going to be the case with this. So on the one hand, they\u2019re going to be tough on the big players. On the other hand, we\u2019re going to pass more regulation that the big players will be able to negotiate more easily than the small players. So surprise, surprise! It doesn\u2019t make any sense whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESecondly, the better name for this bill is the \u201CMandatory Union Deals that are Imposed on Workplaces Bill\u201D. There\u2019s no choice. There\u2019s no choice about this. We\u2019ve heard from Willie Jackson that democracy has changed in this country. Most people haven\u2019t sort of been aware of that. They\u2019re surprised that we didn\u2019t have a referendum on our democracy changing. But, apparently, according to Willie, it has. And when it comes to this bill, we see the sorts of things that are involved in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo instead of having 50 percent of a workforce agreeing to go into a fair pay agreement, all you need is a handful. You\u2019d need 10 percent maybe, but say you\u2019ve got 200,000 workers in an industry, all you need is 1,000\u2014well, that\u2019s less than 1 percent of the industry and they say, \u201COK, we\u2019re going to have a fair pay agreement.\u201D If a tiny minority say we\u2019re going to have a fair pay agreement, once it\u2019s started, there\u2019s no stopping it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e52f524dd0d4dfe9867436607d54a0f\u0022\u003EHon Kiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t that wonderful\u2014isn\u2019t that wonderful! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222060572a138f4ba28d3c547cc7744fcf\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014that\u2019s right. So the 70 percent of the Labour caucus who are ex-union members are happy about this and we can understand that. So celebrate it, because after five years of achieving nothing on the issues that matter to New Zealand, you can come along here today and pass a bill. That\u2019s great! This party is capable, because it has a majority, of passing bills and this is the latest one that they\u2019ve passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt imposes fair pay agreements on workforces, even though they don\u2019t vote for them, even though they don\u2019t want them. So the employers get dragged into the process. They\u2019ve got a gun to the head. They either agree with it or, if they don\u2019t agree with it, it goes off to the Employment Relations Authority and they impose those conditions on those businesses, even though they won\u2019t have had a chance to have their say and they have no choice about whether they\u2019re going to be involved in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the point\u2014the simple point\u2014I\u2019m making is this. Every New Zealander wants to see higher wages for New Zealanders. And what we see is a Government that truly believes that the best way to get higher wages is for the Government to come along here to Parliament and pass a bill that lifts up wages through minimum wages and so forth\u2014[Interruption] that\u2019s great\u2014regardless of whether a business can afford to pay that or not; it doesn\u2019t matter. That\u2019s an irrelevant issue, according to this Government. The productivity of it, the international competitiveness of the business doesn\u2019t matter. That\u2019s irrelevant. It\u2019s only that this does this Government passes the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second route is to starve off immigration and reduce the workforce. And then, of course, at the same time they\u2019ve got make-work schemes trying to hire New Zealanders at a time when businesses can\u2019t get access to workers. But that\u2019s a separate issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo this Government\u2019s view is that\u2019s how you lift wages. Our view on this side of the House is if you want to sustainably improve wages over time, you need to have more productive businesses. And that is going to be based, sadly, not on legislation but on free markets and people being prepared to invest their own capital and to grow their businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022772fe0423c024873ba4233ae5e447e1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022772fe0423c024873ba4233ae5e447e1f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E There is so much I could respond to in that contribution from Mr Goldsmith, but today is a good day. Mr Goldsmith is a historian by training, a noble profession I might add. So I want to start for him with a short history lesson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe genesis of this bill, this great piece of legislation, comes 30 years ago. Now, 30 years ago, which might surprise some people, I was working regularly in the South City New World in Dunedin in the fruit and veggie department. Anyone who wants to know the secret for how to properly cut a pumpkin up, lessons will be given in the break. But those 30 years ago, I worked alongside some of the best people I have even known, some of the most hard-working people I have ever known who were on the checkouts, who worked day and night in the butchery, and who worked day and night in the delicatessen, who were up at four in the morning buying the vegetables that were sold there. And that year, 1992, was the year in which the impact of the employment contracts hit in my workplace. Now, I was a student, I was able to make ends meet, but I watched the value of the wages of those hard-working people, who worked every day to feed their families, erode. Because by design, a system was created by the then National Government to ensure that working people\u2019s share of income declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt was not an accident. It was, as Helen Kelly told us, by design. Thirty years ago that experiment was foisted on New Zealand people, and ever since that day, working people have been going to work and not getting a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work because their rights were eroded, their conditions were eroded. What we\u2019ve heard in the House today, and over the last few days\u2014here\u2019s the history lesson for Mr Goldsmith: Ruth Richardson is alive and well and kicking over there, because they say they\u2019re going to repeal it. They want to, by design, lower the wages of working people. The message for New Zealand, for working people across Aotearoa: National hasn\u2019t changed. Thirty years on, they still want to see the wages of working people decline, the share of our national income that working people take home. They deliberately designed the system to reduce that. Well, today we turn that around. Today we make sure that working people can finally get the opportunity for that fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EDuring the period of COVID, we saw a lot of talk about essential workers. We celebrated essential workers. I can remember writing a small piece for the front page of the Dominion Post to celebrate the people under level 4 who were going out day in, day out, to make sure that we were all healthy and well. Our cleaners, our bus drivers, our supermarket workers\u2014we celebrated them. And I can remember writing that day in the Dominion Post, \u201CMaybe, just maybe, this will be the moment where in New Zealand we stop and we say, \u2018If someone\u2019s an essential worker, maybe we should show that we value them as an essential worker in the way that they are paid.\u2019\u201D Again, today we take serious steps forward in making sure that that happens. Our cleaners and our security guards, our bus drivers, the people who make sure that the economy ticks along have for too long been forced into a race to the bottom. Today we turn that around. Today we turn that around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to say some thankyous at this point in my speech. I want to thank the Minister in charge of this bill, the Hon Michael Wood. Michael, your work on this has been phenomenal, not just sitting in that chair there for goodness knows how many hours, answering banal questions from the members opposite. But the work that you have done to shepherd this legislation to this point, it is a Herculean effort. You deserve every congratulation for what you have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to thank the wider labour movement in New Zealand, many representatives of whom are gathered together in the gallery today. The labour movement has taken this project on because it means fairness. It means giving working people a shot at getting their fair share. I want to congratulate every union member, every working person in New Zealand who has supported this bill. I want to thank the members of the E t\u016B union who lobbied and lobbied and lobbied and told their stories to us time and time again. The people who clean this building, the people who work out there on the front line who are security guards dealing day in, day out with difficult issues. You came, you told your stories to us. They mean something. It means something to all of us today. And I say thank you to you for what you have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to thank some people who are no longer with us. In particular, I want to acknowledge Helen Kelly and Peter Conway, two giants of the union movement, the labour movement in New Zealand. Two people who talked about this very issue. And it was interesting to hear Mr Goldsmith mention a Four Square worker in the north of New Zealand, because that\u2019s the example Helen Kelly used to give of why we need fair pay agreements. Think about the imbalance and bargaining power of a Four Square worker in Kaitaia when they\u2019re up against their employer. They don\u2019t necessarily have people around them who can help them bargain\u2014that\u2019s what this was about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s what Helen Kelly said a few years before her passing. She said, \u201CThere is a cultural problem in this country. People think workers are lucky to have a job. They shouldn\u2019t bite the hand that feeds them and they should put up and shut up. The bottom line should include workers having a secure agreement about how their pay is determined. It\u2019s not much to expect.\u201D Helen drove a movement inside the labour movement to make sure that we reached out beyond those who we traditionally talked to, that we said there was an audience of people here who understood that the race to the bottom was wrong, that there was an opportunity, if we got the legislative settings right, to set the minimum\u2014shoot for the moon, but set the minimum. I want to acknowledge Helen. It was six years ago, just a couple of weeks ago, that she passed away. Today we do something that she wanted. We do something that she wanted for the working people of New Zealand. And I say thank you to Helen and thank you to Peter for the work that they did to get us to this point\u2014and indeed the entire union movement today and in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is nothing to worry about in this legislation. If you\u2019re a good employer, this is good news. It means you\u2019re not going to be dragged down by the people who want to undercut you. This is a chance for employers, good employers, to come to the table with hard-working people and nut out an agreement, and to make sure that the freeloaders in your industry don\u2019t get away with it anymore. This is a day for employers to celebrate just as much as it\u2019s a day for employees to celebrate. There\u2019s nothing to worry about here. We get asked all the time by the Opposition, \u201CWhat are you doing to make us more like Australia?\u201D Hello, we\u2019re doing it today\u2014vote for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E This is commonplace in the world. It\u2019s about basic rights. It\u2019s about understanding that when people go to work, they deserve a fair day\u2019s pay. So I am so proud to stand here as the final speaker on this bill. This is the result of hard work over more than a decade of people in the union movement. But more than that, it is an example of rolling back those terrible ideas of 30 years ago. I stood here and did a Budget in 2021 where we restored main benefits to the levels that they were before the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. Today, we take another important step in rolling back that agenda. But more important, even than that, is that we roll forward now to an era where people get a chance to bargain together, get a chance to get a fair day\u2019s pay. This is a great day for the working people of New Zealand. I am so proud to be part of a Government that is passing the Fair Pay Agreements Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022248f4bfa2e3e476daeceaf194cef8163\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fair Pay Agreements Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 76\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000503\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000504\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204244d88bdf44ec587ccb7e30c6d48fe\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: It is time for the dinner break. We shall see you here at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022334c6386617f4e9686bee82181250951\u0022\u003ECounter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b43c948a6582416789e09a0f4e37f2eb\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022027e910595de426bbaf3cbfee24fe533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022027e910595de426bbaf3cbfee24fe533\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260c242a69dcd4da0a316f8f4c5a17a01\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274948c6032504980888cced4369e4f2f\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 13 March 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAs we are all aware, the nature of terrorism is evolving at a rapid pace. Threats are increasingly coming from radicalised individuals acting alone, often having been exposed to, and influenced by, extremist material online. We\u2019ve seen the devastating results these evolving threats can have here on our own shores. In particular, I want to acknowledge the impact of the terror attacks on victims and the wider community, and, in particular, our Muslim community here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOur goal must always be to ensure we can effectively manage and respond to the specific risks we are seeing right here at home. Following the 15 March 2019 terror attack in Christchurch, the royal commission of inquiry recommended that the Government review our counter-terrorism legislation to ensure it is fit for purpose. This bill is the next step in our response to that recommendation. It clarifies and strengthens our counter-terrorism legislation in two ways. Firstly, the bill amends the scheme for designating terrorist entities in the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002. These amendments will clarify how the scheme applies to designated terrorists who are imprisoned in New Zealand. Secondly, the bill amends the regime for imposing control orders in the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. These amendments will strengthen the control orders regime and include some lessons learnt from the one control order made, to date, in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll start by setting out the key elements of the amendments to the scheme for designating terrorist entities. Under this scheme, the Prime Minister is empowered to designate a group or an individual as a terrorist entity if the entity has carried out or participated in a terrorist act. Once designated, restrictions are placed on that entity\u2019s use of personal finances and property to prevent them from financing terrorism and to prevent others from providing funds or support to the entity. In this way, the scheme helps to prevent further terrorist acts and contributes to meeting our international obligations to prevent and suppress the financing of terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ECurrently, our designation scheme does not specifically address the situation of a designated person who is in prison. This creates ambiguity in how the scheme applies to people in that situation. In particular, it\u2019s not clear how the Prime Minister\u2019s powers to revoke and renew a designation apply. It is crucial that the Prime Minister\u2019s powers, with respect to designated and imprisoned people, are clear. This is because being in prison does not, by itself, prevent a person from supporting terrorism\u2014for example, it does not prevent a person from using their financial resources to support others to carry out terrorist attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo ensure the Prime Minister\u2019s powers are clear, the bill makes three amendments with respect to people who are both designated and imprisoned. First, while a designated person is in prison, the bill removes the ability for that person and other interested parties to apply for the designation to be revoked on one of the currently available grounds\u2014that is, where the application is made on the ground that the person is no longer involved in acts that would make them eligible for designation. They will still be able to apply for the designation to be revoked on the ground that there was no proper basis for it to be made in the first place. Secondly, it pauses the expiry of the designation while the person is imprisoned. And, finally, the Prime Minister must review whether the designation of an imprisoned person is no longer justified, at least once every three years while the person is in prison. As part of this review, the Prime Minister must seek information from the designated person and, where relevant, take this information into account. These amendments are important to ensure the designated scheme can operate effectively to prevent further terrorist acts, while also ensuring the rights and the freedoms of designated people are protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that this bill includes amendments to the designation scheme that will have retrospective effect. It applies the new law to existing designations of imprisoned people and to any applications to revoke an imprisoned person\u2019s designation that have been made but not determined before the amendments take effect. In addition, the bill validates previous decisions by the Prime Minister to refuse an application to revoke the designation of an imprisoned person. This Government is keenly aware that legislation with retrospective effect should only be introduced where there is a strong justification to do so. We\u2019ve carefully considered the issues and feel strongly that retrospectivity is necessary to protect public safety. If the amendments did not have retrospective effect, the ambiguity in the current law could result in an imprisoned person\u2019s designation expiring or being revoked despite them continuing to pose a risk of involvement in further terrorist attacks. As such, we consider the retrospective application of these provisions as justified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI now turn to the second part of the bill, which proposes amendments to strengthen and improve New Zealand\u2019s control order regime. Control orders are civil orders made in the High Court on application by the Commissioner of Police. They apply to individuals in the community who meet the definition of a \u201Crelevant person\u201D and who present a real risk of engaging in terrorism-related activities. I want to be clear that a control order can only be imposed if the High Court is satisfied that the two-stage test set out in the legislation is met. Firstly, for people already in New Zealand, the individual concerned must have a history of relevant terrorism-related offending; and, second, they must continue to pose a real risk of engaging in terrorism-related activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EA control order imposes restrictions that aim to prevent these individuals from engaging in further terrorism-related activities. In this way, they are similar to other post-sentence orders for serious sexual or violent offenders, such as extended supervision orders and public protection orders. The High Court can impose a wide range of restrictions as part of a control order; these can range from regular report-ins with police through to more stringent restrictions such as residential requirements, curfews, and electronic monitoring. However, every restriction must be directly related and proportionate to the specific terrorism risk of each individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAs I have mentioned, the nature of terrorism is evolving. To respond to the specific threats we are seeing and to pick up on several lessons from making New Zealand\u2019s first control order, we are proposing four targeted changes to strengthen the control order regime. First, the bill provides for a wider range of objectionable publication offences to qualify as relevant terrorism-related offences for the purposes of control order eligibility; secondly, the bill provides for sentences of home detention and community-based sentences for terrorism-related offences to satisfy part of the eligibility test for a control order; thirdly, the bill provides judges with greater discretion when setting control order restrictions; and, fourth, the bill changes the current automatic name suppression requirement so the court can more effectively strike a balance between preventing the glorification of terrorism and reassuring the public that a known terrorism risk is being appropriately managed. These changes will give police the option to apply for a control order in respect of a wider range of people who pose a real risk of engaging in terrorism-related activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to stress that the changes the bill makes to the designations and control order regimes\u2014these are necessary. They will strengthen the tools we have to ensure we can better protect our communities from known threats of terrorism, and, at the same time, the amendments carefully balance the rights and freedoms of those individuals they may apply to. To provide clarity as to the Prime Minister\u2019s powers with respect to designated and imprisoned persons as soon as possible, I am proposing that Justice Committee report on the bill to the House after four months. The public will have the opportunity to share their views on the bill at select committee, and I look forward to the Justice Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00222323b25cde1742de8deeeaad649c0cf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222323b25cde1742de8deeeaad649c0cf7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00228fd5ad8187d54276a956b80888f849fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fd5ad8187d54276a956b80888f849fc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, it\u2019s my pleasure to stand and take a call today on the first reading of the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ECan I, firstly, acknowledge the Minister, who, on this side of the House, we feel that, when it comes to matters of national security, the default setting should always be trying to work in a bipartisan way, certainly amongst the two major parties, because there is, fundamentally, nothing more important than the safety and protection of our country. So I want to thank and acknowledge the Minister because she did involve us, she did provide a briefing to myself, Paul Goldsmith, and Chris Penk, on the draft copy of the bill, and there was a good conversation had with the Minister and her advisers. We made one recommendation that we felt should be made to strengthen the bill, and, in a later meeting, that change was made. I want to acknowledge the Minister and thank her for doing that; it makes it much easier for us to support this bill. We want to support the bill because it\u2019s important that we do work together on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to come back to a time only five or six years ago when we saw the rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in Syria and Iraq, and the tragedy that that caused. I want to acknowledge our New Zealand Defence Force\u2014we have the defence Minister in the House tonight\u2014and the incredible work that they did in making sure that we did our bit and supported the defeat of that corrupted and extremist ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to support the Minister\u2019s comments that although we\u2019re a small nation down the bottom of the world, sadly we lost our innocence when we had the horrific attacks at the mosques. I was in Christchurch today, our beautiful garden city, on a beautiful summer\u2019s day, and a gorgeous place to be, but do you know what? There\u2019s very deep scars that will run through there for a very long time because of what we had to face as a nation, with those attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we saw the attack at the New Lynn mall. It reminded us that, actually, these terror attacks can come from anywhere. They\u2019re obviously twisted ideologies and they can appear through very sophisticated attacks involving explosives and firearms, right through to very low-tech attacks where they may just pick up a knife or use a vehicle. We have to be vigilant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge our security and intelligence agencies that work very hard to make sure they try and keep us safe, but we all know, and it\u2019s no secret, that we have people on the watch-list. So we have to continue to be vigilant and do what we can to be able to move and make the changes necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo I acknowledge the Minister, as the incoming Minister, that she\u2019s taking this seriously, she\u2019s looking at the royal commission recommendations, and she\u2019s prepared to take the action to start to work through those. So it\u2019s very easy for us to come into the House tonight, acknowledge her, and acknowledge the importance of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt does have to go to select committee, because I think that we do have to hear from submitters, we do have to hear from our agencies, and we are going to want to make sure that we return this bill in the best possible shape to make sure that we do maximise the protections and the changes and the amendments that are contained within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just wanted to make a very brief acknowledgment of\u2014I went back to a time when, as a country, we were having to focus and deal with the threat of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, and ISIL, which, although it was long way away from our borders, Kiwis like to travel, and we felt that it was probably inevitable at some point that a Kiwi would get tied up in that. But one of the things that we had to respond to very quickly was returning foreign fighters. At the time, I was chairing the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, in which two very senior members of the Labour Party were on that committee: David Shearer and Phil Goff. I want to acknowledge them because, again, it was a bipartisan approach and the three of us worked very hard over the period of about two weeks to get legislation in place and through the House quickly so that we could respond to that threat of anyone wanting to return from overseas as a foreign fighter to our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe legislation amends the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002. The Minister spoke about the designation. We feel very strongly that these are a good, pragmatic, and practical response to the designation. I can\u2019t think of a loophole that\u2019s more important to close than one that would allow the designation to expire with someone convicted of a terrorist act whilst they\u2019re in jail or in prison. So that\u2019s one of the loopholes that is closed with this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EVery quickly, I do want to touch on these and go through them. I know the Minister\u2019s already touched on them, but I did want to go through them myself, if I\u2019ve got time. There are a couple, especially around the control orders, that I wanted to talk through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut \u201Cwhile the entity is imprisoned, no application for revocation of the designation can be made (by the entity or by a third party with a special interest) on the ground that the entity is no longer involved in any way in acts of the kind that made, or that would make, the entity eligible for designation\u201D. I think the Minister used a very good example that although someone may be in prison and incarcerated, there\u2019s still a possibility that any funds offshore or any funds sitting in an account could be accessed, could be used to help facilitate, promote, or help acts of terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe \u201Cexpiry of the designation is paused while the entity is imprisoned\u201D. This is just good, pragmatic common sense\u2014that that designation is actually paused while the person is in prison. I believe that the backstop is still there because the Prime Minister has to still review that periodically, or every three years, to actually reapply that designation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIf I come very quickly to the control orders, which amends the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. Again, these are good, practical changes. \u201CThe Bill\u2014expands the eligibility criteria to include a terrorism-related New Zealand offence involving a broader definition of specified objectionable material\u201D. I think, in this modern age, we do have to move quickly and we do have to acknowledge that the world is changing rapidly. I think that this is a good change that recognises that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill \u201Cexpands the eligibility criteria to include people sentenced to home detention and community sentences (it is currently limited to people sentenced to imprisonment) and allow sentence conditions and control orders to exist concurrently for those offenders to ensure consistency of risk management\u201D. This is a massive loophole that someone that has a community sentence or is on electronic bail can\u2019t have a control order applied to them. So this is a good one. I\u2019m amazed that we\u2019ve had to go back and actually do this and that it wasn\u2019t already dealt with in the original legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill \u201Callows for greater judicial discretion in the setting of control order requirements, to ensure that they can be more closely tailored to risk\u201D. Again, being able to move quickly, have some flexibility, and be agile in terms of applying these control orders. That\u2019s another very good recommendation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill \u201Cprovides for requirements of the following kinds in more detail: requirements that the relevant person reside at and remain at a specified address; and electronic monitoring requirements\u201D. I think the electronic monitoring requirements one, at the moment, is very relevant because we\u2019ve seen a big increase in sentencing that now involves electronic monitoring. So we\u2019ve got a lot more people now in the community that have a bracelet on, that are being electronically monitored. The reality of it is that we also have got a large number that are absconding, that aren\u2019t actually adhering to the sentencing rules around the electronic monitoring. So I think this is a really important loophole to close so that the police have actually got the ability to be able to track and monitor and respond far more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022246f5e0cac1c4cfbb304b91384921e6f\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: They take the bracelets off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022372aa217361a446e83c2d865829f9b4c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right they take the bracelets off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo I just finish by saying that we do support the bill. We are looking forward to it coming to select committee. I think there\u2019s still some work that we can do to strengthen it. But, fundamentally, we acknowledge the Minister. We acknowledge the fact that she is responding to the royal commission and is taking some positive steps forward in starting to work through those recommendations. They are important\u2014they are important for the safety of our country and they are important in terms of sending a very clear message that New Zealand is not a place to come and that you\u2019ll easily get away with trying to perpetrate some type of terrorist attack. It\u2019s important that we continue to support and make sure that our agencies that are there to protect and look after us have got the legislation that\u2019s usable and that they can use. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab8d43494ae9433eaf20b98f1deb5d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab8d43494ae9433eaf20b98f1deb5d3c\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This bill, the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill, is the next step in the Government\u2019s work to ensure that our counter-terrorism legislation is, in fact, fit for purpose. Right at the start, I\u2019d like to acknowledge that it\u2019s good to see comradery from across the House on issues of national importance such as counter-terrorism. So I\u2019d like to acknowledge the member who has just spoken, Mark Mitchell, and it\u2019s great to see that, at times when national security is paramount, this House is able to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Government is working to strengthen our counter-terrorism laws to make it harder for those people who are known threats to undertake terrorist acts. The changes that we are making in this bill will improve the effectiveness of the control orders Act. It will also expand the criteria for those high-risk individuals who can be covered by the restrictions, which limit their ability to undertake such an attack. The Government is always seeking to strengthen the terrorist designations, and, in this specific bill, it is making it explicit that it covers individuals who are in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe proposed changes to the designation and control order schemes are in line with the Government\u2019s overall commitment to implementing the recommendations of the royal commission\u2019s inquiry into the Christchurch attack. It\u2019s important that that work continues, but, alongside of that attack, we\u2019ve also seen more recent developments, with the attack in New Lynn last year. Both of these attacks serve as a continuous reminder to New Zealanders of the devastating consequences to individuals and our communities from any terrorist attack. These are important amendments as we look to keep New Zealand as safe as we possibly can in a continuingly evolving global climate. Our goal must always be to ensure that we can effectively manage and respond to the specific risks we see in New Zealand, and also emerging risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EFirstly, this bill amends the scheme for designating terrorist entities in the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002. These amendments will clarify how the scheme applies to a designated terrorist, particularly those who are imprisoned here in New Zealand. Secondly, this bill amends the regime for imposing control orders in the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act. These amendments will strengthen the control orders regime in place currently, and also include some of the lessons we have learned from the only one control order that has presently been made in New Zealand to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does overall is, following the terror attack in LynnMall supermarket last year, where the individual responsible was a known threat to New Zealand security\u2014and Cabinet sought a review on how the control order scheme could further be strengthened to prevent such instances from occurring in New Zealand\u2019s future. This bill amends the regime for imposing control orders in the Terrorism Suppression Act, and these amendments will strengthen the control orders regime as it operates now, and also include those lessons that we have learnt from the one as made, to date, under the existing legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill includes the following changes to the regime: it expands the eligibility criteria for those who can be covered by a control order, and includes if the person has received a conviction for objectionable material and publications that promote torture, extreme violence, or cruelty. This is in addition to the current criteria, which includes a conviction for objectionable publications that promote terrorism. In addition to this, the bill expands the eligibility criteria to include people sentenced to home detention and also community-based sentences. It also allows sentence conditions and control orders to exist concurrently for those offenders, to ensure that a consistent approach to risk management is always in place, to make sure we\u2019re protecting the safety of New Zealanders. It also allows for greater judicial discretion when setting control order restrictions, to ensure they can be more closely tailored to the risk once it is scoped, in order to mitigate that risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt also provides, in more detail, requirements for the following kinds: a requirement that the relevant person reside and remain at a specified address, and that also electronic monitoring requirements are in place if required. It makes name suppression requirements more flexible than they currently are, so that an appropriate balance can be struck between preventing the glorification of terrorism activity, while also reassuring the public that known terrorism risk is being appropriately managed for the wellbeing of our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the scheme for designating terrorist entities in the Terrorism Suppression Act. The designation scheme was initially brought in to stop New Zealanders from providing financial support to those overseas in terrorist groups, in the wake of the September 11th attacks. Now, as the terrorism landscape has evolved, our laws also need to change. For the first time since the scheme was introduced, we have a situation where a designated terrorist entity is, in fact, imprisoned, and imprisoned here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOverseas, we have seen examples of how imprisoned terrorists continue to attempt to influence and incite others from behind bars. We are seeking to further reduce any ability for designated entities to be glorified or to support others in carrying out such acts of terrorism. This bill amends the Act so that, in the case of a designated person who is in prison, no application for revocation of the designation can be made on the grounds that the entity is no longer involved, or in any way, carrying out the terrorist acts. It also requires the Prime Minister to review the designation every three years, to determine whether it remains justified. In making this assessment, the Prime Minister must consider relevant information provided by the designated individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EFollowing the March 15th terror attacks on Christchurch, the royal commission of inquiry recommended that the Government review our counter-terrorism legislation to ensure it\u2019s fit for purpose. This bill is the next step in our response to that recommendation. As chair of the Justice Committee, I look forward to the submissions that we receive and to working alongside all members of that committee to do our best job possible to bring this back to the House for the second reading. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00228d5bb30f6c7f47069fd280a52e2c44c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d5bb30f6c7f47069fd280a52e2c44c1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is actually a pleasure to be able to stand up and support a piece of legislation. It\u2019s been a reasonably confronting and hostile day as we\u2019ve dealt with other issues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d63e48835f684863b0966422c5145df7\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Contentious\u2014other contentious matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb7a61611a424bbe9511851c62ce93db\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014contentious issues\u2014whereas here on this matter, the House\u2014I\u2019m not sure about the Greens, but the House is more or less aligned in their thinking around counter-terrorism acts, because, I mean, there is no more fundamental duty for any Government than to defend and protect its citizens as best as it can. You know, we do have a lot of argument and disagreement around justice policy more broadly\u2014not so much on the outcome, of course, which is to keep New Zealanders safe, but lots of disputes about how best to go about that. If I could characterise things, this Government does tend to be more focused on the rehabilitative needs of the perpetrators of crime; we tend to focus a little bit more\u2014we acknowledge that\u2019s very important, but we also need to acknowledge the needs of the victims of crime, for justice, to denounce the act that has been carried out, and, thirdly, to show that serious crimes have serious consequences. That is highly, sort of, debated, particularly in the context of youth crime and ram raids at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut when it comes to counter-terrorism, I think there is much more of a meeting of minds in that nobody defends the acts involved, of course, but we are determined to do everything we can to keep our citizens, our New Zealanders, safe, as best we can. Now, we all acknowledge that the threat of terrorist acts is very difficult to predict, and we all in New Zealand, of course, think very often of what happened in Christchurch. Nobody expected something of that scale and barbarism to occur in our country, but it did. The threat is real, and no Government can promise to avert every such incident, but we can and we should make sure that we are best prepared, that we have both the legislative settings correct, to give ourselves the best chance to keep New Zealanders safe, and also that we have the physical assets in place, in terms of police and security agents, in that sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, this piece of legislation, the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill, we are supporting, and we want to hear at the select committee any concerns raised. The two elements of it, as has been widely canvassed already: amendments to the Terrorism Suppression Act in order to deal with the situation where, under the designation scheme, somebody in prison\u2014it only lasts for three years, but, if you\u2019re in prison at the moment, it can\u2019t be extended, and it needs to be, for obvious reasons. That was just something that hadn\u2019t been thought through originally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second area, though, is around amendments to the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act. As my colleague Mark Mitchell mentioned, the Minister of Justice, who, quite rightly, was conscious of the desirability of bipartisan support for such legislation, did engage with us, and we\u2019re grateful to her for meaningful engagement, because we did have some concerns with the original proposals that aligning certain clauses together could have led to an unintended impingement of, sort of, free speech, fundamentally. The Minister did listen and did amend what was brought to the House in order to ensure our support, and we\u2019re grateful to her for that. We don\u2019t think it diminishes the Act in any way, shape, or form, but it doesn\u2019t muddy the waters, as it were, when it comes to the very important element of free speech in our society and not confusing opinions that we don\u2019t like\u2014some people don\u2019t like\u2014with terrorism itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what this amendment does\u2014these control orders impose restrictions on people in the community who pose a real risk of carrying out terrorism-related activities. It may limit an individual\u2019s rights to freedom of movement and expression\u2014can only be imposed, however, when the High Court is satisfied that the two-stage test has been carried out and, in this case, that the person has been convicted of a specified offence related to terrorism and that the person continues to pose a real risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe point of this bill is to extend the control orders regime to expand the list of specified offences related to terrorism to include the range of objectionable publication offences\u2014again, it doesn\u2019t take too much imagination to think of some of the objectionable publications that occurred in relation to the horrific Christchurch act\u2014enable control orders to be an option where a person has been sentenced to home detention, that\u2019s been mentioned; and also to allow greater judicial discretion in the setting of those control orders; and making name suppression requirements more flexible and clarifying protocols for management of electronic monitoring of the conditions. So things that more or less make sense and will enable that regime to work effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOf course, we hope\u2014we hope\u2014that there will be very few people indeed who are captured by these control orders and by this legislation. We hope that New Zealanders are safe from terrorism in the years ahead. But, of course, we have to hope for the best but prepare for the worst, and that\u2019s why this legislation is important in putting in place a framework so that those people who have been convicted of terrorism-related offences can be monitored effectively in the community if required over time, in order to keep our New Zealanders as safe as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, without further ado, I just would like to again thank the Minister for the genuine engagement on this issue. I think it\u2019s an approach that they might like to consider in a couple of other areas, particularly electoral law, and that may be an opportunity for them to think about that. But on this area, we stand with the Government and we support the passage of this bill at its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8eae2255e6e42e4aac83c7a1ee0741d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8eae2255e6e42e4aac83c7a1ee0741d\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E I first want to acknowledge our Minister, the Hon Kiritapu Allan. Congratulating a Minister on the task of bringing such a sensitive and difficult bill to the House is probably not to recognise the seriousness with which we take this particular piece of legislation. And I want to acknowledge the Opposition; it has been a contentious day, today\u2014we think a wonderful day\u2014it is good to know that we will have your constructive support as we go through the issues that will arise as we discuss this bill in the Justice Committee, of which I am a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill, as previous speakers have said, is a response to the evolving nature of terrorism. I remember, as I\u2019m sure all other members of the House do, finding out about the bombing of the two towers; I was sitting with my 8-month-old on my knee. I remember where I was when the Christchurch mosque attacks were broadcast over the radio; I was driving that same child\u2014now a late-teenager\u2014home from school. Terrorism has changed; our response also must change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo whereas when we passed the Terrorism Suppression Act, we envisaged organised groups as the threat and so our response was to control the flow of money and material support to them. Now, what we have is these isolated, individual offenders, and the tools we need to keep our people safe from such isolated offenders are different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo this bill does two things\u2014well, two broad things. First, it amends the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 and it clarifies that where that designated terrorist entity is, in fact, a person who is in prison, that person will not be able to try to raise the designation from themselves whilst they are in prison. In effect, the impact of the bill will be to suspend the ability to revoke the designation until that person leaves prison. And that is really important because the designation enables us to keep the control orders on, which prevent them getting the publicity that, unfortunately, these people often crave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe other part of the Act is to amend the regime for imposing control orders\u2014again, Terrorism Suppression Act\u2014but this time it will extend the ability to put control orders where you have people, as we have, unfortunately, had, who have committed offences in the past but not sufficiently serious ones to tip us over into the ability to put control orders on them. So we would now be able to put a control order on a person who was convicted of a range of other offences, including offences promoting extreme violence, and we would also be able to keep control orders on someone who had only a sentence of home detention or community detention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI look forward to discussing these matters with the Justice Committee. I look forward to hearing from the many thoughtful submissions I am sure we will have. And I commend this bill, in its first reading, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2cddad3a2a24bc8886cfb6a1a51d79f\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a100d2092c14c1a8eabe37354cfd887\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve made me lose your name now, which is a terrible thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022647ddf3715ef4555ada4659db7e3a410\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Golriz Ghahraman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a2169ec837457182f97f0e413ab602\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Golriz, I\u2019m sorry. I apologise, Golriz, I know you perfectly well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00228ee31831dc784d8f9d00fef8cb48672b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ee31831dc784d8f9d00fef8cb48672b\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I apologise for the abrupt entry into the debate, Madam Speaker. Counter-terrorism obviously is a matter that\u2019s close to all of our hearts, in particular in this Parliament and across our nation after the deadly tragic events in the Christchurch mosques that happened on March 15th in 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI know that we all\u2014and we always have\u2014aim to protect our people against violence, and terrorism is the worst of violence; it is a hate crime, and it aims to terrorise a community, with far-reaching implications. It hasn\u2019t always been the case that Parliaments and Governments have brought laws under the umbrella of counter-terrorism that have actually done that; that have actually kept those particular marginalised communities safe or addressed the truth kind of actors in the realm of counter-terrorism. We have had a royal commission inquiry into those events and we\u2019ve learnt a lot. A review of the actions that resulted from the royal commission is due out just next week, and so we\u2019ll hear again from those communities, from the experts, from the agencies, and\u2014hopefully\u2014act as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been asked about this bill a few times by media in the lead up to it, and sometimes the question has been, \u201CIs it weird that the Government is bringing back this tweak?\u201D And, obviously, the Green Party has not always been quick to support things that come under the umbrella of counter-terrorism, because we do have serious concerns about due process and we do have serious concerns about rights issues that are often suppressed there. But I certainly don\u2019t have an issue with Governments bringing counter-terrorism legislation back to this House to tweak things that have gone wrong or to fill voids in the law that we\u2019ve learnt are necessary to be filled. So, in that spirit, I do welcome a Minister reacting and responding to things that we\u2019ve found out were missing in our laws that may have made our laws a little bit less safe or affected the efficacy of our counter-terrorism regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill to select committee today, and that\u2019s because it does identify some valid and concerning gaps in our law\u2014one of them being that the Christchurch terror perpetrator may fall short of being able to be designated a terrorist under current law. That\u2019s concerning. Having said that, the reason the select committee process will be essential in this is that we need to hear from experts and from the communities that are most impacted by both terrorism and counter-terrorism legislation\u2014because often there\u2019s a crossover. We know that the Muslim community in particular, for example, experienced oppression as a result of past counter-terrorism laws that came in through the so-called war of terror, and also they were increasingly the targets and the victims of white nationalist terror, most devastatingly on March 15th, when the Christchurch terror attack happened. So we need to hear from those communities and we need to hear from the experts so that we are not engaged in overreach that impacts people\u2019s rights and we\u2019re not leaving anything out. In particular, I know that one of the gaps in practice that was identified by the royal commission was that we weren\u2019t designating the right people and we weren\u2019t watching the right organisations in terms of what modern terrorism looks like today. So those are the types of things we need to hear from communities on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe types of concerns that we have as the Green Party are things like whether or not the orders regime is going to be extended to apply to people who are not duly shown to be engaged in terrorism, for example. The proposed change is, for example, to look at material that\u2019s distributed or posted that\u2019s not just terrorist material but also dangerous in other ways\u2014for example, encouraging torture. But we want to know that that is right. We want to know that we\u2019re not capturing material that falls outside of being actually dangerous, for example, because it is important to protect both freedom of speech and freedom of expression and freedom of publication and communication\u2014especially in communities that are often seen as being \u201Cpotential terrorists\u201D that are sometimes actually the most marginalised communities\u2014but also to uphold the spirit of what counter-terrorism law is about, which is to keep our communities safe from violence. The balance is really, really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo that select committee process is going to be really, really important. It is valid to bring back counter-terrorism law, it is valid to look at the orders, it is valid to look at the designations and the definition that we provide in law that allow those designations; we need to know that we are reacting responsibly to the current climate when it comes to terrorism. But it is also important that we don\u2019t let go of our due process standards, that we don\u2019t let go of the rule of law and the human rights regime that we hold so dear, that will protect us and keep us aligned with the values that New Zealanders expect us to be aligned with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo for those reasons, the Green Party will support this bill to select committee. We will engage meaningfully with that process, and we hope that the bill is improved in that process so that we can continue to support it and make New Zealand and the world a little bit safer from modern terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022692120fdda5b4346be5e2319c6ee995a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022692120fdda5b4346be5e2319c6ee995a\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand to speak on behalf of the ACT Party to the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to start off by thanking the Minister of Justice, Kiritapu Allan, for calling us in for a briefing and a discussion about this bill before it was presented to the House. That is very much appreciated. Just as my colleagues across the way here\u2014National\u2014have made recommendations in regard to the bill before it was presented, we agree with those, and we do thank her for that opportunity so that we could come to the House and support the hearing of this bill, initially, in the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill is an omnibus bill that will change two pieces of legislation: the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 and the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. The changes are going to introduce a single, broad policy around terrorist designations and control orders. The change to the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 will allow the Prime Minister to designate individuals as a terrorist entity. Currently, the legislation refers to organisations such as al-Qaeda and the Taliban; rather than individuals, the amendment will allow the Prime Minister to designate either as a terrorist entity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELone actors with terrorist intent have shown themselves here in New Zealand. We have one currently incarcerated for the heinous crime that he committed on 15 March 2019. He does not claim to associate with any particular group or terrorist entity. His actions on that day were an individual\u2019s terrorist attack against the people of New Zealand. This amendment will allow a Prime Minister to, therefore, designate any person who attacks our communities as a lone actor\u2014like the Christchurch terrorist did\u2014to be a terrorist entity, because there are reasonable grounds for the Prime Minister to act upon. In this case, he meets all of the criteria of a terrorist entity. He\u2019s been convicted of murder, attempted murder, and terrorism. He\u2019s carried out and participated in a terrorist attack. This designation also means that third parties cannot deal with an entity\u2019s property, nor can they make property or material support available to that entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBecause we are dealing with an individual as an entity, the current law did not allow for instances where that entity may be incarcerated here in a New Zealand prison. Currently, clause 35 of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 states that the terrorist entity designation expires after three years unless the Prime Minister makes a further order based on their belief that the entity still poses a risk to society. This bill seeks to amend clause 35 so that there is no expiry of the designation, nor can there be an application to revoke the designation if the entity is serving a sentence in a New Zealand jail. The designation itself will be paused for the time the individual is incarcerated here. In fact, almost everything goes on hold except for the Prime Minister needing to review the settings once every three years. If the Prime Minister decides that the restrictions are no longer necessary, then they can revoke the designation themselves. But this would be done in the future by review with assessment, rather than reapplication on potential revocation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, the changes to the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 will, effectively, mean an individual can be named as a designated entity. The expiry of a designation is paused if the entity is in jail. The three-yearly review is retained, but the grounds are amended. The designated entity will still have the ability to challenge the designation and its ongoing status, but this will be done through a review process rather than a revocation one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second piece of legislation that is to be amended is the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. We\u2019ve only had one person issued with a control order, and he went on to injure six people, three of them critically, in a supermarket stabbing in New Lynn, Auckland, last year. His motivations were Islamic State of Iraq and Syria inspired, and we understand that the legislation prevented him from being retained in prison, and so he was under heavy surveillance at the time of the attack. This enabled a response from police within 60 seconds of the attack in the supermarket. Within that time, though, six people were stabbed. And the realities are that we cannot have our police watching some individual for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for extended periods of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI pause here to reflect on our gratefulness to the New Zealand Police that they were watching this man on this day back in September 2021. We thank police for their quick actions, which, no doubt, saved many lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo the changes to the control orders will add some new definitions which include and allow control orders on community-based sentences and electronic monitoring, as well as post-detention conditions and residential requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAdditions to section 6 will expand who is eligible for a control order so that those that have been convicted of a terrorism offence in New Zealand, and have received a home detention sentence or a community-based sentence, will be captured in this Act. Further additions to section 6 will ensure that the conditions I just mentioned will continue, even if there is an application for appeal against conviction, or a sentence is suspended because of the filing of a notice of appeal, or applications for leave to do so. However, it doesn\u2019t all run one way. New clause 28 will allow for the discharge of a control order if an appeal by the offender is successful. It also allows for a new control order to be applied for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill is also seeking to expand what we determine as a specified, objectionable publication held by the offender to include publications that promotes or supports acts of torture or the infliction of extreme violence or extreme cruelty, infliction of serious physical harm, and where it encourages acts of terrorism. The bill, when it amends the Act, will allow a judge to make orders specific to the individual the order is placed upon, tailoring the order to that individual\u2014for example, when making an order, a judge must consider how an order\u2019s requirements will affect the person\u2019s personal circumstances. An amendment here allows the court to consider the person\u2019s ability to actually comply with those orders made against them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill will also allow the court to make orders as to where a person may reside, how long they must remain at that address, allowing the use of electronic monitoring, consequences for tampering with an ankle bracelet, allow post-detention conditions, and place upon them residential requirements. Effectively, this part of the bill is seeking to ensure that where a person is of concern to our society as a terrorist risk, our courts can establish control orders that can be unique to that individual in its conditions and can be used as ongoing controls once an incarceration sentence has been served. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnother change this bill will achieve is in regard to the automatic name suppression of the identity of the offender. Amendments will allow the courts to make an order that does permit the publication on an offender\u2019s identity if the court so wishes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe lost our innocence as a nation back in March 2019. The horrors that New Lynn faced just last September 2021 has shown us all that the New Zealand as we knew it has changed. And while we don\u2019t agree that laws should be made off the back of one terrible person or event, we do recognise that changes are needed to upgrade us as a country to deal with common threats that we are increasingly facing. We must remember the two violent terrorist acts we are amending our laws for were not carried out by us, but by foreign national terrorists. Our laws and amendments must reflect how we react and prevent such acts from occurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EACT supports this bill at its first reading. We want to ensure the safety of all New Zealanders as we move from these dreadful events. However, we are mindful that making laws off singular incidents has not benefitted Kiwis in the way promoted by this Government in our recent past. So we look forward to the select committee process so that we can hear from our communities as to their thoughts on their proposed changes. The ACT Party does support this bill to its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00225c3686f8ca5f43038b7b87ca40f83886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c3686f8ca5f43038b7b87ca40f83886\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a brief call on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. I just want to start by acknowledging the Minister of Justice, who introduced the bill to the House this evening, and her contribution. But I also want to acknowledge all parties. We\u2019ve now heard a contribution from all of the parties in the House and it would appear that there is unanimous support for this bill to pass its first reading and go to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sitting here amongst colleagues who are on the Justice Committee and I think that that is a great start for us in terms of this piece of legislation. The Hon Mark Mitchell sitting across there, Nicole McKee as well\u2014we will be sitting on the Justice Committee welcoming submissions. And I acknowledge the contribution from the Green Party, in particular, hoping that those experts in this area will, hopefully, present\u2014possibly, also those who have had direct experiences; we may also have the privilege of hearing them submit too, and I think that that will really strengthen the process in the proposed legislation that we\u2019ve got here. So I look forward to working constructively and I hope that we are able to work through that together and report back in the short time frame that we\u2019ve got\u2014just four months, as I understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge as well that we have MPs in the room who were in those electorates where those terrorist attacks occurred. We have Deborah Russell, the member for New Lynn. That attack happened at LynnMall. But in the House, we also have those MPs from Christchurch who, I think, more than others in the House, have had that direct experience, contact with victims, and so will be welcoming this proposed legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIt comes as a result of the recommendation from the royal commission that we review our legislation, that we identify whether it is fit for purpose or not. And tonight we have two proposed amendments to two pieces of legislation, which, I think, as a result of the two most recent events that we\u2019ve had\u2014we\u2019ve identified our legislation isn\u2019t, in fact, fit for purpose, that there are gaps in it, and that there is more that we could do to strengthen that legislation to protect New Zealanders, to protect our communities, and to protect the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t go into the detail of what has been proposed, because I think I\u2019m speaker number six or seven. It has been well traversed by those who have spoken before me. But I do just want to acknowledge those members that are in the House tonight who have been supporting and working through these issues in their communities. I hope that this legislation does go some way to ensuring that it is more fit for purpose and that it will provide better protection for our communities. I look forward to the submission process and working on it as a select committee. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223705fd43df804689ac7bd21203fb206b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223705fd43df804689ac7bd21203fb206b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Simon O\u2019Connor\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002209d500f64f504747abb3e860b10a006b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209d500f64f504747abb3e860b10a006b\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, there is no higher duty for the Crown to protect the subjects or citizens of the Realm. So it\u2019s really important to find that bipartisan\u2014if you will\u2014support across the House. And can I echo Willow-Jean Prime, who\u2019s just sat down, that it is actually really good to hear that all the parties, as far as we\u2019ve heard, are going to be supporting this bill, which enhances our national security and, importantly, our ability to respond to terrorism and also to try and prevent terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, terrorism is nothing new, unfortunately. How we learn and adapt to it is something which is always evolving and changing, which, amongst other reasons, is why we support this bill. We do see this as an improvement. But to echo others as well, it\u2019s positive that this will go to select committee so that some experts can look towards it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s, unfortunately, suffered terrorism: particular communities\u2014and we think particularly of our Muslim brothers and sisters who suffered so tragically in Canterbury, then, in more recent times, the attack in New Lynn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESadly, terrorism across the globe continues to be a major, major problem. Islamist terrorism remains the biggest\u2014particularly in Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa\u2014but we are, unfortunately, seeing in the West a growth of what could be put as far-right or white nationalist terrorism. While not anywhere near the same numbers, its invidiousness in society is a significant, significant problem. And, as I say, we\u2019ve experienced it here, so New Zealand finally has understood that we\u2019re not exempt from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, this law does two positive things through two pieces of legislation. One is through the Terrorism Suppression Act, and long and short, it, basically, says you no longer have to be part of an organisation. So, often, we think of terrorists, we think of the likes of\u2014I put the Taliban, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, for example. You don\u2019t have to be a member of an organisation anymore; an individual who does terroristic acts. I think it\u2019s going to be important to tease out in select committee. I think there should be, rightly, always a nervousness in this House where, in effect, a law\u2014an aspect of the law\u2014looks towards just a singular person. And the nature of terrorism is also quite specific, although very difficult to define, but it\u2019s an action that drives a political means. So it\u2019ll be really important to understand, and I want to really stress: it\u2019s good that we capture individuals. We think of the person responsible for what happened in Canterbury; we want to capture that, but we want to make sure it doesn\u2019t go too much broader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe terrorism suppression control orders are also being updated\u2014or proposed to be updated\u2014here, really importantly, to make sure the person is not simply in prison. We understand a number of people who could require control orders could be on a community sentence or otherwise, and I think it\u2019s important to capture that. I think the heroism of all those involved in New Lynn shows that there are still learnings and gaps that this intends to fill. So this is a positive step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI will just make a plea, though, in the broader sense, to the Minister and to the Government, seeing we are talking about counter-terrorism, terrorism, and designations. It\u2019s well past time that New Zealand put the political wing of Hamas on the designation list, along with the military wing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd in light of recent events in Iran\u2014the oppression of the Iranian people, particularly of women\u2014and also the Iranian sponsoring of drones which are terrorising Ukraine, I want to make the call very loud and clear that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps should be placed on the terrorist designation lists in New Zealand. While this potentially is outside the scope of the bill, I think it\u2019s important at this first reading to renew that call from myself, my constituents, those in the community that I represent across New Zealand who do want to see New Zealand step up like other countries and place, as I say, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps onto the designated list and also Hamas\u2014as I said, not just the military wing but the political wing. These are terrorist organisations and they should be called out as such in New Zealand legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd with that, I am very pleased to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00226187065772254bf889895f8c1ec8117a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226187065772254bf889895f8c1ec8117a\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill, the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. I am surprised the M\u0101ori Party doesn\u2019t choose to take this call, which is usually theirs, on this important legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want just to recognise the work that the Minister, the Hon Kiritapu Allan, has done, and the select committee will do, in respect of this bill, and just recognise the very delicate balance between the rights of freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom of religion, and a whole lot of other freedoms that are deeply embedded in this society, and held dear, and the fact that this legislation constrains and restricts those freedoms. It does so, and Mr Goldsmith talked about the philosophical differences around punishment in our respective parties, but I do want to focus on the fact that this legislation has nothing to do with punishment at all. It\u2019s entirely protective. It may be triggered in some instances by individuals\u2019 wrongdoing, and we\u2019ve heard about control orders being triggered by non-custodial sentences, but the fact of the matter is that these steps, these constraints on the freedoms of people, are because they are a real risk to the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt behoves the select committee to look very carefully at this, but we absolutely need to be constantly maintaining this legislation, because the world does change, and is changing, and the kind of reach that people can have has changed over time. So things like designation and the ability to, essentially, suppress the communications of people, their freedom of speech, is really important, because what we have seen is that terrorism and extremist views go hand in hand. For that reason, these orders are very important, and we absolutely don\u2019t want to create a situation where someone who might be in prison can still become the focal point of extremist views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation. It\u2019s very heartening to see that it\u2019s got widespread support, and I\u2019m really looking forward to the work that the select committee will do to build on this fantastic work of the Minister. Kia ora, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00229c28f097d8fc4ff1a58854a0dc5b3c31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c28f097d8fc4ff1a58854a0dc5b3c31\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. M\u0101l\u014D ni. I\u2019ve taken the opportunity tonight to listen to the contributions of my colleagues around the House on what I am pleased to say is a relatively bipartisan issue. It\u2019s one that I\u2019m pleased is coming to the Justice Committee, on which I sit, and I have faith that that committee will consider this bill and these issues very carefully, having done so with a number of other counter-terrorism initiatives that the Government has brought into effect in the time that I have sat on the committee. I know that people around the Justice Committee will also join with me in thanking Minister Kiri Allan for introducing a bill which at its first reading we agree strikes a good balance between what my colleague Duncan Webb referred to as a delicate balance between the importance of protecting and giving safety to our communities and upholding the rights of the individuals we\u2019re talking about tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI agree with Simon O\u2019Connor\u2019s point on the importance of finding bipartisan agreement and the committees being a good place to do that on these issues, and it will be good to have discussions both with submitters and with our advisers, particularly on the control orders part of this bill. I think it\u2019s been useful for the committee to have considered regimes that are similar to this, and one issue that I will be carefully thinking about\u2014and I would encourage submitters to help us to understand\u2014is the effect of these control orders, and international examples where control orders have been upheld and challenged in the courts. That will be an important thing for the committee to consider and to get right in this legislation. While we see other jurisdictions around the world having had control order regimes which, essentially, the courts have found to go too far, we need to take heed of those examples and make sure that these are lasting, enduring pieces of legislation which work for our people and have the intended effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe second point that I think will be important for the committee to consider\u2014and it is one that I will be thinking about\u2014is one that the Minister alluded to in her speech around how terrorism is being influenced increasingly by online extremism, and how we are taking action here to make sure that someone who is imprisoned is not able to be the focal point of online extremism but also, more generally, how we can build bipartisan and cross-partisan support for more action on online extremism and the pipeline to real-life extremism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is just a short call from me, but I want to say thank you to the members who have given contributions tonight. It has been very good listening to all of your thoughts, and I look forward to debating this with you in committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022c46ec1f6ce394617971759417a92299f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c46ec1f6ce394617971759417a92299f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Like others who have spoken in the debate so far, I have enjoyed the contributions across the House. Others have noted the importance of a nonpartisan approach\u2014I join those who, on this side of the House, starting with the Hon Mark Mitchell and flowing through all of our contributions, and those from the other side of the House, starting with the Minister of Justice herself, and others from other parties too, noted the importance of that. So I just add my acknowledgment and thanks to the Minister for engaging with us at an early stage of the process. I think it\u2019s a sensible thing to do, actually\u2014frankly, it\u2019s the practical thing\u2014but it\u2019s also the right thing to have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo our support extends not only to the bill itself, in terms of the substance of what it is looking to achieve, but also in terms of process. So the Minister has flagged that a relatively short process will be undertaken\u2014or that she\u2019ll be proposing to the House that the select committee examine the bill for four months. It\u2019s not indecently short, and there will be plenty of opportunity for the Justice Committee to do its work, examining the particular provisions of the bill, hearing from members of the public, expert and non-expert alike, and that\u2019s appropriate. Too long a time frame would cause difficulties in relation to a particular designation that has already been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENot to put too fine a point on it, others have referred to not only the events of March 15 2019\u2014tragic as they were, obviously\u2014but also the particular implications in terms of a person who is currently incarcerated as a result of that day\u2019s actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOthers have spoken about the two different main aspects of the counter-terrorism legislation: the designation of terrorist entities, and the control orders. If time allows, I might offer a couple of thoughts in that regard, as well, but I won\u2019t repeat that material for the sake of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d actually rather go ahead to considering the question of how this bill might be considered to be consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA). Others have, of course, spoken in that space already, either explicitly so or in more general terms, and it\u2019s right that others across the House, again, from all parties, have acknowledged the need for balance, and, of course, that\u2019s often a useful way of looking at laws that are in the realm of what we might think of as human rights, and certainly those protected in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act were obliged by that Act itself to conduct some sort of a balance, which is to say, considering whether the ultimate policy aim is such that the limits on the rights within the bill could be considered a justified limitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EInterestingly, on the subject of the Attorney-General\u2019s report, I have been refreshing my phone for the last couple of weeks, in the hope of being able to read that once the bill had been introduced. I refreshed it as recently as question time, I think; I sneakily did that today, and still didn\u2019t find a copy. I recklessly did so again at 8.03 p.m., some 10 minutes ago now, and found that it had been uploaded. So I have had a very cursory speed-read of that and made some even more cursory notes on the documents in front of me\u2014this is the legislative statement, but, of course, the discussion of the NZ BORA rights are so much more interesting even than that. So I\u2019ll offer some thoughts in the space and look forward to that ongoing discussion that the Justice Committee will have. I\u2019m not a member of that regularly, but if I speak nicely to the senior whip, I might find myself subbed on to that committee for the consideration of this bill\u2014maybe as a slight indulgence after I\u2019ve done my penance as court spokesperson for the various courts-related bills that are going through that at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo just thinking about the rights and freedoms. It probably almost goes without saying, but I will say it nevertheless: we have no patience, of course, for a particular individual who conducted such atrocities in mid-March of three years ago. But nevertheless, it\u2019s right to turn our minds to the question of rights and how those are impacted, not least of all because they can apply to others, as well as that particular individual himself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo with that obvious disclaimer, we are interested\u2014certainly I\u2019m interested\u2014in sort of understanding how this can fit with our existing regime of human rights. Others have raised\u2014I think, from the Minister onwards\u2014the prospect of retrospective aspects of the legislation\u2014or \u201Cretroactive\u201D as it\u2019s categorised in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The Minister described, in her contribution\u2014and echoing the same points made in the legislative statement\u2014there are three ways that there is retrospective effects in relation to the TSA\u2014that\u2019s the Terrorism Suppression Act\u2014amendments, so this is the designation regime. So I won\u2019t go through those; the Minister\u2019s done a good job of explaining how that is the case. But, in summary, it\u2019s the fact that we\u2019re going to have a regime apply to the designation in relation to someone who\u2019s already been incarcerated\u2014so, to that extent, it\u2019s retrospective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut what we\u2019re not doing, I\u2019m pleased to say, is creating an offence on the statute book that makes an act criminal today that wouldn\u2019t be criminal tomorrow. So we often talk about retrospectivity in a reasonably general way, and the short version of our way of looking at it is that it\u2019s not a good thing, but there are ways of considering whether it could be reasonable, and, of course, there\u2019s different aspects. In this case, what we\u2019re doing, nearly, in this bill, is saying that someone\u2014in this case, one particular individual\u2014has already committed a crime that was a crime\u2014to say the least of it\u2014at the time, has suffered certain consequences, namely incarceration, and to have a different regime applying to the designation of that entity, that person, as a terrorist, is, I think, ultimately, consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve sort of surprised myself a little bit in coming to that conclusion, but I thought about it quite deeply over the last couple of weeks. I think I\u2019ve reached the conclusion, perhaps, for a slightly different reason than the advice from Crown Law to the Attorney-General had. I\u2019ll do my best to characterise that accurately\u2014and, again, with that disclaimer that I\u2019ve just literally read it for the first time, and quite quickly at that. The advice of Crown Law\u2014which was given by Crown Law by the Ministry of Justice because it\u2019s a justice bill\u2014is that the Terrorism Suppression Act amendments are civil in nature and that judicial review proceedings are still available, so there\u2019s sort of some ability for a person who might object to the way that their matter is being handled to sort of have that interrogated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThen, in relation to the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act, the argument there is that the courts still have the ability to modify or revoke an order. But, more importantly, that overarching point is that public safety is such a high policy aim that if we\u2019re going to limit some individual rights along the way, in the name of that greater good, then that\u2019s a justified limitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think these are good arguments, but I also wonder if we might consider that\u2014well, first of all, that obvious point in relation to section 26(1) of NZ BORA, \u201CRetroactive penalties\u201D, we\u2019re not making an offence now that which was not an offence at the time that the action or an action took place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIf anything, the prohibition on double jeopardy might be said to be engaged\u2014that\u2019s section 26(2), so that says, if you\u2019ve finally been acquitted or convicted or pardoned, then you shouldn\u2019t be tried or punished again. I think this is such a relatively small punishment relative to the incarceration of a person who\u2019s undertaken such a horrific attack as was the case on March 15 that it might almost be viewed in the manner of a concurrent sentence or an aspect, even, of the original sentence. I know it\u2019s not exactly that, but I\u2019m just sort of trying to grapple with the fact that instinctively it feels as though this is a justified limitation. But that\u2019s something that I\u2019d certainly be open to further arguments and thoughts. There will be others across the other side of the House who might have different views, again, even than those of Crown Law and my own views on the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENevertheless, I think it\u2019s fair to say that even if this bill were\u2014and I think this is an important point for us as a Parliament\u2014inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, it is sufficiently important that Parliament should pass it anyway. So, for that reason\u2014sort of as an additional layer on top of all the other key reasons that others have articulated really well already\u2014I join others on the National Party and other Opposition parties, indeed the Government parties, in saying that we support the Government in bringing forward this legislation. That\u2019s not to say that there can\u2019t be really interesting and helpful discussion at select committee; we look forward to that. But for me, trying to avoid any doubt, we do commend this bill to the House. We support its passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00221824516066a948078c3b8dfcd162d02c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221824516066a948078c3b8dfcd162d02c\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call on this bill, the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. I won\u2019t say it\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on it, because these are serious matters and I think we\u2019d all wish to live in a world where these types of laws were not necessary, but, as we know and as other speakers have traversed, that is not the reality of the situation in the world at the moment, or indeed in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Minister of Justice for bringing this bill to the House and for recognising the need for the changes to our laws. These, as I said, are serious matters but they have been addressed seriously and responsibly, I think, in the legislation that has just been drafted. I also want to acknowledge members around the House for their constructive comments and praise of the Minister\u2019s approach in this bill. I think it shows New Zealand that we take the responsibility of their safety\u2014which is paramount\u2014extremely seriously, as we should in this House. So I want to commend members of the House for that. I also want to just acknowledge the fact that this is dealing with quite unusual and serious matters, but I do think the Justice Committee, with their four-month\u2014I think\u2014period of time which they\u2019re considering it will do justice to considering the various elements of the bill, and, no doubt, discuss all the different elements to ensure that when the bill comes back to the House it\u2019s in the best possible shape it can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also want to take a moment to acknowledge those who have been affected personally by the attacks in New Zealand on 15 March, especially our Muslim community, and also those survivors of the LynnMall attack. I\u2019m sure the thoughts of the whole House are with those victims, the survivors, and their families as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn relation to some of the comments that my colleague Chris Penk on the other side of the House was mentioning, in relation to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act compliance, I think this is a particular area that I\u2019m sure the select committee will look into. I also had a brief look at that report prior to speaking today and saw the conclusion that it wasn\u2019t inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, but also share the view that, obviously, there is a trespasser on rights at a prima facie level probably in this in this bill. But probably working through that logic, it\u2019s likely that that would be justified within the scheme of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which, as we know, does allow justified limitations on various freedoms at times. And I think that that is illustrated perfectly in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThese are tough issues, but I think that they\u2019ve been addressed very well by the piece of this legislation. I won\u2019t go through all the changes that have been made to the designated terrorist entities or the strengthening control orders as these have been traversed at length. But I do thank those who have worked on this bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f425b4d1afd34564b56f8cee7ecd6d27\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000636\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022de81da6f465049caa044b31916e666c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de81da6f465049caa044b31916e666c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E Bill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4f9e52da9c04cef972da4b5fbc9ccdf\u0022\u003EInstruction to Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002246d471c9c06b4a23ad50527fba6d1b1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246d471c9c06b4a23ad50527fba6d1b1d\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 13 March 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294c8622e99d04275abeeafde11ef5344\u0022\u003ECOVid-19 orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221017a343dbce4fb6b96f3a9964c31568\u0022\u003EApproval\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e222df8ac6294bfdb2a559cf83198fcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e222df8ac6294bfdb2a559cf83198fcd\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House approve the following orders made under the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020: COVID-19 Public Health Response (Revocations) Order 2022 (SL 2022/254), COVID-19 Public Health Response (Masks) Order 2022 (SL 2022/255), and COVID-19 Public Health Response (Self-isolation Requirements) Amendment Order 2022 (SL (SL 2022/257).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m asking the House to approve COVID-19 orders to ensure that they are not revoked within a certain time frame. Today\u2019s motion approves four orders. I\u2019d like to again reiterate that I am grateful to the members of the Regulations Review Committee for their comments and observations, which continue to influence and improve how orders are drafted. I want to thank them for their continued work examining these orders. I\u2019ll now outline what those orders contain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EOne of the orders today makes amendments to the COVID-19 Public Health Response (Masks) Order 2022. It revokes the COVID-19 Public Health Response (Protection Framework) Order 2021 and removes all requirements in the order except the requirement for certain people to wear a mask in healthcare settings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe COVID-19 Public Health Response (Revocations) Order 2022 revokes various orders, removing certain restrictions, including isolation and quarantine restrictions for people in managed isolation and quarantine facilities; requirements for people arriving in New Zealand by sea; specific testing requirements for arrivals at the border; and requirements that certain types of work be carried out only by workers who are vaccinated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe have also amended the COVID-19 Public Health Response (Air Border) Order 2021 and removed most of the restrictions that applied to people arriving in New Zealand by air. Incoming travellers are no longer required to wear a face mask while on board their flight or be vaccinated before arriving in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ELastly, the COVID-19 Public Health Response (Self-isolation Requirements) Amendment Order removes the requirement for household contacts of COVID-19 cases to self-isolate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe have been clear that the measures used to contain the spread of COVID-19 need to be proportionate to the risk of the virus. Some of the tools that were justified now need to be removed. Our response continues to evolve, and we will be significantly narrowing the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020, removing the most restrictive powers from the Act that are no longer required for the response while ensuring we can practically manage the ongoing impact of COVID- 19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227f6fe4aa410f4a669c2464cef2f84ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f6fe4aa410f4a669c2464cef2f84ab7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022503cffd1fa0e4523b40e4f7cbedc4fdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503cffd1fa0e4523b40e4f7cbedc4fdc\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to these orders, and I thank the Minister, the Hon Ayesha Verrall, for bringing them to the House. National will be substantively supporting these orders. If we look at some of the key ones, the self-isolation requirement\u2014that talks about removing the requirement for household contacts to self-isolate. We agree with that. And the power of the director-general to require close contacts to self-isolate\u2014we agree with that as well. The public health order around masks, removing it from the protection framework order\u2014we substantively agree with this as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI would raise the question of an issue raised by pharmacists: they appear to be the only retail agency substantively still, potentially, requiring clients or customers to wear masks. They say this is really cumbersome because people go into shops and they\u2019re not expecting to wear a mask anymore. They move into a pharmacy and suddenly they are. Consequently, they\u2019re not. And so I wonder if, for consistency, you could consider whether that\u2019s practical or not\u2014take some advice from the guild, whomever. But certainly the feedback I\u2019m getting is that people just aren\u2019t\u2014they\u2019re just used to retail having no masks, and I don\u2019t know if the utility is there in trying to maintain that anymore. So if you could have a look at that, it would be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe third order, which we\u2019ll substantially support\u2014the revocations order\u2014removes the quarantine restrictions for people in managed isolation, people arriving in New Zealand by sea, testing requirements for arrivals at the border, and requirements that certain types of work be carried out only by workers who are vaccinated. Now, we understand that this is the policy position from central government, but, of course, the challenge has been that people out in the hospitals have presumed \u201COh, it\u2019s been removed.\u201D, but, in fact, Health New Zealand are making their own decisions. So it would be useful to know if that\u2019s with advice, guidance, and recommendation from the Minister and her analysts and her team\u2014that the advice to Health New Zealand is that unvaccinated workers should continue to have restrictions; and, again, whether that utility is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWe voted against the COVID public health order in my own hands about two months ago\u2014maybe three, I would guess\u2014and before that my colleague Chris Bishop did, and we would make the case that, for unvaccinated workers in a health setting, if they were to come to each shift and rapid antigen test negative and were asymptomatic, then certainly, while we\u2019re amongst a crisis, there may well be a place to review the current mandate restriction that they have. So I wonder if that could be taken into account as well. That won\u2019t prohibit us from substantively supporting these orders here tonight, but just a few points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIf we could consider pharmacy\u2014it\u2019s turning out to be logistically just not practical; people just aren\u2019t doing it\u2014and, secondly, whether the Health New Zealand - styled choice to restrict unvaccinated workers is still manageable and wise in the context of the health workforce crisis that we have. But National will be supporting this motion further. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd88ab1522084724be04a152b4a6ef45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd88ab1522084724be04a152b4a6ef45\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mangai o te Whare, t\u0101loha ni. I rise on behalf of my colleague Teanau Tuiono for the Green Party to oppose these COVID-19 public health response orders. They\u2019re about winding back most of the protection framework, including mask use, household isolation requirements, and restrictions for air travel across the border. We note that these orders were presented to the House in September and are, of course, in effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EOur concerns are about how winding down the protections is not being done alongside stronger public health measures that are needed to protect our immunocompromised and disabled wh\u0101nau\u2014measures that put the needs of M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and disabled communities at the heart of the ongoing pandemic response. COVID cases are on the rise again, proving that this virus is here to stay and that we\u2019ll be living with new waves of infection for a long time to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003ESo we just want the focus to return to slowing the spread through long-term protective measures, such as sensible masking\u2014not masking all the time, I\u2019m really glad we\u2019re over that\u2014and, for example, we\u2019ve long advocated for measures around ventilation, air filtration, and mask use in schools to help decrease in the incidence of COVID and other contagious illnesses for tamariki and taiohi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a matter I raised, actually, with the former Minister for COVID-19 Response Hon Chris Hipkins to the Health Committee at one point. At the time, he responded that opening a window or a door was actually better than having an air filter. As someone who grew up with windows open and doors unlocked, I fully support the \u201Cfresh air is best\u201D approach, however that is not always possible; that is not always practical. Where immunocompromised people often have limited options of how they can keep themselves safe, such as on a plane, these measures mean that when you\u2019re on a plane, you don\u2019t have to use any masks. The scientific advice that we have received is that once you\u2019re on the plane, they actually have really good ventilation, they have great air filtration, but it\u2019s the getting to and from the airport and sitting on the tarmac that is the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EIn terms of the air border, to justify opening up more, I recall when the Minister provided us with statistics that showed how low the incidence of transmission was that was coming through the border\u2014as opposed to the community transmission, which was rife at the time\u2014so we totally agreed that we should open our borders. We wanted our people to be able to come without the cost that was so prohibitive to so many people. I will always be thankful that I wasn\u2019t one of those wh\u0101nau that had to suffer through a funeral online. So many people that couldn\u2019t be together\u2014families split up for years because of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EWe just want to have something that\u2019s a little bit sensible so that\u2014because at the moment, with these measures being changed, when you come in, not only do you not need to be vaccinated but you don\u2019t even need to be asymptomatic. So you can come in coughing and spluttering with whatever, and that\u2019s not a worry\u2014but for some of us it\u2019s a little bit of a worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EThose travelling by air\u2014it affects their whole country whenever they come in here. They go out to wherever. But when people are coming in by sea, it affects particular communities. I live in, I come from, a seaside town, and so people have come to me and said, \u201CWhat about cruise ships? They\u2019re coming in and then a whole pile of people are coming off the ship and then they\u2019re going right through town and then they leave again.\u201D They\u2019re just worried that there\u2019s nothing they can do to keep themselves safe, so it just becomes them individually. They\u2019ve just got to look after themselves and all those beautiful things\u2014the team of 5 million, our communities working together\u2014just starts to really break down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EWe know that opening our borders would bring illness through. That\u2019s fine, we accepted that; that was the risk for all the good things that came from opening our country back up to the world. That was always going to be fine so long as our health system was managing. What we know, of course, and some of my other colleagues have identified, is that our health system is not managing. It\u2019s not managing well at all, with massive queues at emergency departments, increased waiting lists, and chronic understaffing. We\u2019re concerned that variant-specific boosters are not available yet in this country\u2014we hope the Government will soon indicate when those can be rolled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EWe do note that one of the orders removes the traffic light protection framework, and we\u2019re really happy about that. We were not fans. We\u2019re pleased it\u2019s gone. But that is the same order that removed all of the mask requirements except for certain people who work in certain health environments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003ESo public health measures work best when they become part of our everyday lives, when it\u2019s not a burden, when it doesn\u2019t restrict us from the things we need to do in our life. As a minimum, we think the Government should be able to guarantee clean air inside buildings, through air quality monitoring, strong ventilation standards, and air purification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no doubt that COVID hit some communities far worse than others. We just want those communities to be a part of the decisions that are made around that response. For immunocompromised people in many parts of our community, we just know that this has not happened, so we do not support this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222c0721f5c47b4f6f8b90455ae66e8c41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c0721f5c47b4f6f8b90455ae66e8c41\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you so much. Look, it is time for New Zealand to stop being afraid. We have to unmask and not be afraid. And I take account of the comments from Dr Kerekere, because if someone is immunocompromised, there is nothing to stop them, or anyone else, from wearing a mask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut I didn\u2019t realise until I was in Europe, in late May, just how far behind and out of kilter New Zealand was, compared to other developed countries\u2014when we went into Europe and people were not masked. And why were they not masked? Because they said only people who are sick or concerned about their immune system were masked. In fact, in Poland they said that they cancelled COVID on February 24. And when I asked, \u201CWhat do you mean, you cancelled COVID?\u201D, they said that was the date that Putin invaded Ukraine. So they felt they had a greater threat and they were going to get on with their lives. And, actually, it\u2019s time for us, having all made enormous sacrifices\u2014and some a lot more sacrifice than others\u2014to be able to celebrate that it\u2019s time for these orders to be able to be revoked. And the National Party stands in support of removing these. The time has well and truly come, if not late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI take up the point that Dr Shane Reti so eloquently made around the situation with the workforce in the health sector. We know that there are nurses and doctors and other health staff who have not been allowed to return to work because Health New Zealand\u2014this great Government agency that was going to get rid of postcode lottery, which it doesn\u2019t seem to have done\u2014has decided they are going to prevent unvaccinated staff coming into work. This has to stop. We have staff who want to work, people whose lives have been destroyed by their concern about the vaccination\u2014even though I didn\u2019t share that concern, and I think most of this Parliament did not, but we are concerned for them that they have been left out on a limb. There are rapid antigen tests (RATs) available, these RATs that we use now; there are now anti-viral medicines available to people, should they get COVID. We know that COVID itself, like other viruses, has mutated many times and will continue to do so, just like the Spanish flu and other diseases like that which then mutate and become far more easily transmittable and less harmful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe fact is, people need to be able to live, and we need to be able to allow people to live their lives. We in the National Party understand why health professionals were mandated around vaccination. We understand that\u2014at the time. But it\u2019s time for that to stop. We understand that the Government has said that that mandate has been removed. But when the Government\u2019s big, super health board, Health New Zealand, decides that it\u2019s going to stop staff coming in to work at a time when we are losing nurses and doctors and other health professionals to Australia and other countries, it is madness. It is absolute madness. And they need to stop being so pathetic about this and let these people back. I don\u2019t see anybody requiring staff to be vaccinated for the winter flu, which, as we know, was a particularly nasty flu this year. We don\u2019t see that happening. We don\u2019t see all sorts of other restrictions. And yet this particular one has continued under Health New Zealand and we need to have that corrected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI also take up the call from Dr Shane Reti that our pharmacists should not have to go through this whole masking nonsense. I popped in to the pharmacy the other day to get something and realised I wasn\u2019t masked. I had to race and get one. You know, this is nuts, people. It\u2019s nuts. Let\u2019s just stop this. Let people come back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI was on one of the first flights, I think, from Wellington to Auckland, just after the masks mandate on public transport and airlines was lifted. It could have been a party flight. People were so happy. The staff on Air New Zealand were so happy. I went on board\u2014and I am something of a frequent flyer, I have to tell you, over the years\u2014and they said, \u201COh, hi, Judith, it\u2019s going to be a great night tonight.\u201D I thought I must have walked into the wrong plane\u2014apparently not. They were just happy to be able to see people\u2019s faces. People were happy to be able to see other people\u2019s smiles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s time we moved on and it\u2019s time we gave people back the right to make their own decisions. And if people want to put a mask on, if people have something that they are concerned about, fine. Let\u2019s celebrate them having that right. Let\u2019s stop doing this to other people and making them feel bad because they might have forgotten their mask or something else. I think it\u2019s time we brought the country together, and this would be one of the smartest things that Health New Zealand could do right now, because they are so woefully behind in all of their elective surgeries, they are so woefully behind in the public confidence that they can actually deliver anything that they\u2019ve been set up for. And it\u2019s time we gave New Zealanders back their freedom and their self-respect and let them get on with it and make adult decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022 data-id=\u0022377813da61bb49109c54c60c3788a1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022377813da61bb49109c54c60c3788a1ad\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, we\u2019ve been saying since November that we should\u2019ve got rid of all these rules, and we are still going to oppose these motions even though we\u2019re happy to see them here. Freedom day should\u2019ve been on 1 December in 2001. The rest of the world\u2014[Interruption] 2001, yes\u2014have moved on; we are still haunted by the spectre of Michael Baker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003ENow, I sit on the Regulations Review Committee, and I can tell you that having only four COVID orders to go through is a lot better than what it was when I was first on there. And we are happy to finally see that we can see everybody\u2019s smiles. It is fantastic to be able to walk around and see strangers smiling and having a good time. But it\u2019s just been so long in the coming. The rest of the world realised that it was here to stay; we had COVID. Yes, it\u2019s a new virus, yes we\u2019re still learning about it, but we\u2019ve had to learn about other viruses all the way through. We\u2019ve had so many viruses. Even when I worked as a laboratory assistant back in the late 1990s, we had viruses that we had to overprotect because they were new\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226463012f970847ecabd9389311921fcf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You were creating them, in the lab!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f95d9f80f1584b77aa4356e2a5a98013\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we weren\u2019t sure if they were going to be as infectious as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a9445fb0974a4ab1e8dc09558f7d33\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Christchurch, not Wuhan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225696f2c68b8f4c8fac9edfd44bb82c7f\u0022\u003ETONI SEVERIN\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! But the thing is that we have been saying right from November that we need to get rid of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act and move on. It\u2019s been a long time coming, and now just these four lovely little orders that came through on 12 September for us\u2014no more mask wearing unless you\u2019re in the medical profession, which is also quite sad because most of them are very, very cautious of handling patients and things. Also, to see our health professionals actually smiling at patients can help them a lot as well. And, also, most of us, when we worked in the health profession, if we felt ill we wouldn\u2019t go to work; we would ring up and not go there. So having no masks, it just makes a world of difference to all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003EThen, also, the other one of the orders is the health response on the air border, allowing people to come back into the country. It doesn\u2019t matter where you\u2019re coming from, doesn\u2019t matter about your vaccination status, it doesn\u2019t matter about isolation. However, in the Regulations Review Committee, we did have a couple of concerns that we did write to the Minister for COVID-19 Response, and, as we know, this report here is still an interim report because we\u2019re still waiting for that response from the Minister on a few questions that needed to be asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003EBut, I mean, overall, yes, we are happy about most of this, but these should\u2019ve been gone long ago. I mean, we still say freedom of choice. If you need to wear a mask, please do so, because most of us have someone that we know and we care about that may be immunocompromised or have other issues, and they need to wear their mask if they have to. But, also, over the years, with immunocompromised people, you know, they\u2019ve had to survive through other winter flus and other things that are floating round. We\u2019ve had measles outbreaks. We\u2019ve had quite a few things. So by now we hope that they have themselves places organised to be able to handle any of these restrictions that are taken off. I\u2019m pretty certain most of them would be very concerned, and I\u2019m concerned for them too, because I have loved ones that are in that state, but they also want to move on with their lives and not live in fear, and that\u2019s the good thing: most of them have actually said, \u201CI\u2019m not wearing my mask anymore, but I am still cautious.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d892f20-579d-4c43-8247-7ab72c4f7c2e\u0022\u003ESo, overall, we\u2019re happy they\u2019re here, but we say they should\u2019ve been out the door months ago. So ACT is still going to oppose this motion until all of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act is totally removed from New Zealand. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002239f2943838c14534842614f1b4f2c633\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 97\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 33.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000685\u0022\u003EOrders approved.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4c5d625c13d45ea807f9264bbbe3b32\u0022\u003EUnited Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220cdc8e405af64a6e8b5919999145412c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002283fd1e4f376e49d583837b3161d15b9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283fd1e4f376e49d583837b3161d15b9f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795d93814b08472981a4e6412b6052d0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd32c3bbe864f8ca4b31096f6b2e0cb\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is a pleasure to move in support of this bill. Following the bill\u2019s first reading in July, the bill was referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, where it was extensively examined. The committee considered the bill between 26 July and 20 October, and it recommended that the bill proceed with a limited number of amendments related to Part 5 of the bill: the apple transitional export quota. Further technical amendments were also made for further clarity and consistency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI want to express my thanks to all those involved in this important examination process, from members of the committee to civil society and business representatives. The New Zealand - United Kingdom free-trade agreement (FTA) is a high-quality, inclusive, and precedent-setting free-trade agreement that will provide real benefits for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe global economy is confronting the realities of the largest war in Europe since World War II, whose impacts are reverberating around the world. This, of course, comes on the back of a COVID-19 pandemic that triggered a major global shock over the past two years which continues to affect economies around the world. Nations are grappling with the interlinked challenges of high inflation, tightening financial conditions, and continuing pressure on supply chains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s Trade Recovery Strategy recognises that trade is a key driver of our recovery from the economic impacts of COVID-19. Trade is also important for building a high-wage, low-emissions economy that supports economic security. New Zealand has worked to provide strategic trade debt through concluding a series of free-trade agreements with key partners, providing New Zealanders with as many trading options as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe UK FTA and our recently concluded free-trade agreement with the European Union are key components of the Trade Recovery Strategy. Both agreements provide new and meaningful access into large, high-value consumer markets where exporters have previously faced high barriers. These free-trade agreements will support New Zealand\u2019s businesses to reconnect with partners, customers, and markets overseas. They will improve our exporters\u2019 competitiveness through reduced tariffs and increased market access, and will create opportunities for exporters to diversify products and markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s most recently concluded free-trade agreement with the European Union has been a long-sought objective by successive Governments. Once implemented, this agreement will create a level playing field for most New Zealand exporters and significantly improved access to the large and high-value EU market of 450 million consumers. New Zealand is working with the European Commission to secure speedy signature and ratification of the New Zealand - EU FTA, and signature could occur by mid-2023 and ratification of the free-trade agreement in 2024. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn the UK free-trade agreement, New Zealand was able to capitalise on being in the first tranche of the UK\u2019s new FTAs after it left the EU, as well as on the UK\u2019s intention to demonstrate the success of its independent trade policy and its credentials to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. The UK FTA is one of the best deals New Zealand has signed. Our two countries have a uniquely close bond, including the significant connection between M\u0101ori and the UK, given the role of the British Crown as one of the original signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis FTA will assist the development of stronger trade, economic, cultural and people-to-people links between our two countries. Importantly, it will restore a level playing field for New Zealand exporters for the first time since the UK entered the European Union 30 years ago. New Zealand and the UK share deep interests in the Indo-Pacific as an open and inclusive region of sovereign, resilient, and prosperous States underpinned by the utmost respect for international rules and norms. As a piece of architecture, this free-trade agreement creates an enduring link that draws the UK towards our region and makes a contribution to an open, rules-based system that goes beyond bilateral trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe market access package we have agreed is among the very best New Zealand has secured in an FTA. At full implementation, the UK will eliminate all tariffs on New Zealand exports. The FTA is expected to boost New Zealand\u2019s economy by between $700 million and $1 billion at full implementation, with New Zealand annual exports to the UK estimated to grow by over 50 percent, or up to $2.2 billion. The FTA provides New Zealand exporters with immediate, comprehensive, and commercially meaningful access into the UK market, including for our primary sector, and 99.5 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports will enter the UK duty-free on entry into force of the FTA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ETariff elimination has been prioritised for a range of key products, including those of interest to M\u0101ori, such as honey, horticultural goods, and seafood. For products where tariffs will be phased out over a number of years, such as dairy, beef, and sheep meat, we have secured sizable duty-free quotas that offer commercially meaningful access into the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe FTA contains significant outcomes for matters of interest to M\u0101ori, including a dedicated trade and economic cooperation chapter and far-reaching commitments on trade and environment. Importantly, the preamble to the FTA recognises the unique relationship between M\u0101ori and the British Crown as an original signatory to Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi. As with all FTAs since 2001, this agreement includes New Zealand\u2019s Treaty of Waitangi exception that ensures that nothing in the free-trade agreement will prevent the New Zealand Government from meeting its obligations to M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBeyond new market access, the deal offers more certainty for our services exporters, for investors, and for Kiwi businesses wanting to access the UK\u2019s Government procurement market. We\u2019ve also agreed to cooperate with the UK in a range of areas, including in digital trade, to assist our growing tech sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs the first FTA launched and concluded under New Zealand\u2019s Trade for All agenda, this FTA sets high-ambition commitments in inclusive and sustainable trade. It is New Zealand\u2019s first bilateral FTA to include dedicated chapters on trade and gender, and consumer protection. We have secured quality outcomes on trade and development, small and medium sized enterprises, trade and labour, and anti-corruption. The FTA also includes far-reaching commitments on trade and the environment, including concrete steps to eliminate subsidies on fossil fuels, provisions to combat overfishing, and specific articles on climate change. The environment chapter will also prioritise the elimination of tariffs on over 290 environmentally beneficial products. This is the largest environmental goods list agreed in any FTA to date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOnce ratified, the UK and EU FTAs will mean that the percentage of our exports to markets covered by an FTA will rise to nearly 75 percent, up from 52 percent in 2017. This significant expansion of New Zealand\u2019s FTA network will contribute to New Zealand\u2019s diversified trade portfolio and assist New Zealand\u2019s recovery from the economic impacts of COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWith the UK FTA signed in February this year, both New Zealand and the UK are working to bring the agreement into force as soon as possible. There are a limited number of legislative and regulatory amendments that are required to align New Zealand\u2019s domestic law with certain obligations in the UK FTA. The United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill will enable New Zealand to implement its obligations under the FTA and the legislation necessary to bring the FTA into force. New Zealand is aiming to complete domestic ratification processes this year. The United Kingdom is completing its own domestic process, including the passing of legislation. Once both countries have concluded the necessary steps, we will be ready to bring the FTA into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs noted by the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand has secured this deal with the UK at a crucial time in our recovery from the economic impacts of COVID-19. The New Zealand - UK FTA serves our economy and exporters well as we reconnect, rebuild, recover, and look into the future. I commend the bill to the House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9da83ea980d4d5e85801211a2ac6755\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9da83ea980d4d5e85801211a2ac6755\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00228a88a0f2f3114b2db3fdcdb6516d8f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a88a0f2f3114b2db3fdcdb6516d8f6e\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019ve left my notes behind, so I won\u2019t read my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ELargely, I want to start by thanking the officials for their dedication and extreme hard work over a long period of time. You know, Governments come and go in this place. Different Governments claim responsibility for start, middle, or end of trade negotiations. Largely, though, it\u2019s the officials that do the hard work, the graft, and they are there through successive Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn the case of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, I think we have some of the best trade negotiators in the world. In fact, I know that\u2019s the case, because when we were in Government and the UK left the European Union, we arranged\u2014or \u201Chelped\u201D or \u201Callowed\u201D or whatever the term may be\u2014for one of New Zealand\u2019s most successful trade negotiators to be linked to them; in fact, to go and work for them as they created a trade department, the ability to negotiate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMuch of what the UK now does was based on the early steps that the National Government came to support them, to share information with them, to open our trade negotiation trade book so that they could get ready to negotiate with the world and the European Union and with others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOne of the most important things that happened during that period of time, you know, was the UK trade Minister, Liam Fox, made a commitment that New Zealand would be one of the first cabs off the rank\u2014along with Australia\u2014to do a free-trade agreement (FTA). I remember having discussions in the media there, both with their farming groups and their politicians, about how they needed to look further afield than the European Union. Surely the farmers of the United Kingdom didn\u2019t vote to leave the European Union just to be protectionist when it came to the rest of the world. And they had an opportunity to join New Zealand and any other like-minded country that believes a rules-based system with few restrictions actually grows economies, allows countries to join together, work more closely together, creates jobs and income, and lifts countries up, economies up, and people up. Then, actually, that was what they should do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased to say that the efforts of our officials and those officials we lent them\u2014or that they hired away from us\u2014have done their job very well. Because as far as this agreement is concerned and from what the UK has done, they are much more like New Zealand than they are like the European Union when they were part of the European Union. I think our exporters in the future will benefit quite greatly and quite significantly from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Minister made comparisons between the UK FTA and the EU FTA, and he talked about the percentage of goods that would be covered by free-trade agreements as a result of that going from about 50 percent to 75 percent. Sadly, there is not great comparison between the quality of the UK FTA that our officials delivered and the EU FTA. The reason for that is two of our largest exports\u2014in meat and dairy\u2014have largely, and as far as free trade is concerned, been excluded from the EU deal. And that\u2019s a great shame, because it means we have missed an opportunity to help the European Union understand the benefits of free trade, to pull down protection, and to join the UK and New Zealand and others in realising that fewer barriers, when it comes to trade, delivers for economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn that respect, I think the Government hasn\u2019t done the job that they might have with a Minister who also has a primary industry portfolio, because our sheep farmers and our beef farmers and our dairy farmers largely have been left out in the cold with the EU deal compared to what has happened with the UK deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll have an opportunity to discuss that in the House and in the committee and submissions will come in. But I think it\u2019s very important to draw attention to what the Minister tried to say\u201475 percent of tradeable goods may be covered by FTAs, but when you come to the value of our exports, in as far as the EU is concerned, it won\u2019t be at that level, because in the most substantial exports that we have to the EU, they are largely excluded or they are restricted based on quota or still have tariffs upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere was one bright light there, though. For some reason, we can export onions to the European Union without tariff. The three onion farmers I\u2019ve spoken to will be delighted, but it won\u2019t do much for the dairy farmers up and down the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAnd as far as trade with the UK is concerned, the committee did its job judiciously. We wanted to get through our part of this as quickly as we could under your direction and chairmanship, Madam Speaker. The reason for this is: the sooner we get to do our job here, which is get this through the House, the sooner we can get on and sign it, and if there is an opportunity to do that this year, we should do it. We shouldn\u2019t take our time and say, \u201CWell, I guess we\u2019ll have to do it next year\u201D\u2014conveniently at an election year. Actually, it doesn\u2019t matter; what we should do is get this under way as quickly as we can. And with the new Prime Minister in the United Kingdom\u2014who, by all intents and purposes, believes strongly in free trade\u2014we should be talking to them about speeding the process up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EForget the politics of this; the moment it enters into force, our exporters get to export more. When we export more, and where we have an advantage\u2014because with the UK, our exporters do have an advantage over others who will want to trade there and haven\u2019t got their FTAs yet; we will be on a level playing field with the European Union in that market\u2014then, actually, what that does is it means New Zealand exporters earn more for the same amount of work, it grows the economy, and they get to employ more. It is a very, very good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe final thing I wanted to say is that if we now have a level playing field in the UK market with the European Union, New Zealand exporters do not have a level playing field in the European Union with UK exporters, and that\u2019s the problem with the EU deal that\u2019s been done. Too much was left on the table, and it\u2019s a shame that the Government didn\u2019t say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to put politics aside because the Prime Minister is overseas.\u201D We need an announcement. If they had continued to discuss and talk, then I think we would have got more. Time will tell\u2014the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The Australians are holding back and are still negotiating. If Australia gets more than we got, it\u2019s not, in the end, that their negotiators are better than ours\u2014they\u2019re not\u2014I think their Ministers and their politicians are better. We will see. The final thing I want to say\u2014the Minister talked about diversifying and not being reliant upon any market. Well, actually, we were reliant upon the UK many years ago. They joined the European communities, our access all but disappeared, and we had to fight for it, to get it back. We now have restored that with the UK\u2014that\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ve got to say it\u2019s with great disappointment that we see that this Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have announced publicly that they are giving up and walking away on a free-trade agreement with India because it\u2019s just too hard. And here\u2019s the problem with that: if we are saying it\u2019s too hard to do a free-trade agreement with countries that are not used to opening their borders, then who is going to make that case in the world? It won\u2019t be the European Union. It could well be the UK. It has been Australia, who have done a deal\u2014not a perfect one, but they\u2019ve got a free-trade agreement. I just don\u2019t understand why the Minister would come to the House, saying that the UK FTA is one of the best that we\u2019ve seen; the EU is, he says, as good. \u201CIt helps us diversify so we\u2019re not reliant on any one market\u2014China or anywhere else in the world.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut in the very same breath, just a week or so ago, the Government said they are giving up on the FTA negotiation with India. That doesn\u2019t mean we diversify more; it actually means that we are more reliant upon a few markets in the world, and it sends a signal to those who choose to protect their borders through restriction, through tariff, and through subsidy that New Zealanders are no longer the people who are out there talking about the benefits of free trade. If it\u2019s too hard, we\u2019ll give up. Well, very clearly to our exporters throughout New Zealand: a National Government wouldn\u2019t give up. We would continue to argue the case for a high-quality deal with India and many other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAnd I say to the Minister, it is good that our officials have been able to work hard and deliver on this. The EU deal is a step in the direction\u2014it just wasn\u2019t good enough\u2014but he now needs to get out on the world stage and start filling that pipeline up again. The deals that have been done over the last few years were started many years ago, before this Government got here, and the success of New Zealand is having that pipeline of potential deals full so we can continue to work through them. It\u2019s not very full at the moment; in fact, there are very few new deals that have been announced or spoken of, and that will mean at some stage our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials won\u2019t have as much to do. I guess, since they are the world\u2019s best and they\u2019ve delivered this high-quality agreement, they could well look to go and work for other countries, as some of them did with the UK. That wouldn\u2019t be good for New Zealand or the New Zealand economy. The Minister needs to go out and start filling that pipeline. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9b71927c73140d2b8c4be43528a0ee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9b71927c73140d2b8c4be43528a0ee6\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Unlike the previous member, the Hon Todd McClay, I\u2019m going to speak about the New Zealand - United Kingdom free-trade agreement (FTA), not the EU one. And I know he wanted to speak about the EU one because he knew that the UK one is actually of a gold standard and there\u2019s not much to criticise about it. The EU one, it\u2019s a little bit like comparing apples and pears, and I have to say everybody in this House knows that the EU is particularly stringent in its negotiations around climate change and I would like to see the Opposition try to get a better EU deal over the line than what we are achieving currently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would also remind the previous speaker that National concluded only four FTAs in their nine years in office, and when it comes to economic management, FTAs are about what we can export. We are an exporting nation and they\u2019re critical. Labour gets FTAs over the line. We\u2019ve got the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, the upgraded China and Singapore FTAs, and we\u2019ve got them over the line because for us these are about relationships. We understand relationships because they are about people, they\u2019re about trade, and they\u2019re about defence; it is not just transactional stuff. And what was able to be achieved with this was a gold-standard FTA with the UK for all the reasons stated by the Minister. The UK is the fifth-biggest exporter. We have exports to them worth $1.7 billion per year and we have achieved incredibly good market access, and that is thanks to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT), the iwi team within MFAT, iwis outside of MFAT who I spoke to, the former High Commissioner Laura Clarke\u2014who did an excellent job in addressing the issue of colonisation and being able to mend some bridges there\u2014and her team. And it was a real win-win-win result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFriendships these days are important. When countries do trade with each other, they get to understand the value base, the supply chains, the way of doing business, and that\u2019s incredibly important during these tricky times. I\u2019m reminded of that today on the national day of celebration of Hungary\u2019s 1956 freedom fight, which went on for 13 days. And in that time, Hungary was crushed by Russia. We\u2019re seeing similar things happen with the Ukraine and so our friends are more important than ever. So a shout-out to our Hungarian New Zealanders who came over as refugees after that time, and also to our Ukraine population. And just appreciating that we have got very good friends in the UK and in the EU, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9c86be38b61401a9476b5a4d9dbaa05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9c86be38b61401a9476b5a4d9dbaa05\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c28047ed0e468f95674e97767ecfd5\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, this\u2019ll be better!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022afc4f6d45c4b41dfa8bf90515e43475c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afc4f6d45c4b41dfa8bf90515e43475c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m not sure, but, hey. Look, thank you very much. I don\u2019t know whether I should confess to the House, with recent events in the United Kingdom, but one of my most excellent meetings when I was the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee was with Liz Truss, actually. She and I had a wonderful private lunch together, talking, primarily, trade. I do want to make it very clear I gave no advice beyond trade! But, actually, we had a really excellent discussion at that time\u2014actually, echoing a lot of what speakers prior have just brought out, which is the deep relationship and respect between our two countries. And with all due respect to Ms Truss and everything that she\u2019s been through, I would have to say that when she was the trade Minister, at that time she saw the real value of that New Zealand agreement. I think that\u2019s been passed on to subsequent trade Ministers, obviously both in the Governments here\u2014to use the plural\u2014in New Zealand and then certainly through the UK itself.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, as I say, it\u2019s been a deep respect and I suppose it\u2019s our intertwined histories which have helped to a degree, but I think as well, and, obviously, I can\u2019t speak for the UK, that they can see the strategic advantage in getting these good deals over the line with the likes of New Zealand and Australia. So it\u2019s a good deal and no one on this side of the House disputes that. The fact that so many tariffs will fall away relatively quickly is quite positive. And in order to make sure I am not erroneous\u2014that\u2019s probably not very plain, is it? So that I don\u2019t get things wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb188d9610344c0a148d051297eedf4\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, careful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221491f9e54eb6467587ebb3f984cc76e0\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Careful, sorry. Pulling back\u2014pull back. It\u2019s obviously going to go right across our sectors, as they\u2019ve got here. Apples, their tariffs are going to fall away\u2014will be tariff-free within three years\u2014milk is going to be over four years; cheese and butter over five years, which if one reflects on the time it takes to sort of cure these things it sort of makes sense; and beef and lamb is going to be over 15 years. Obviously\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4778fd0c9444f693589ab2fba2b8f8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d30084c904438c93cc5b1cfef59215\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I know that was just a terrible, terrible joke. It\u2019s late at night. But long and short, this is a good deal. This is a very, very positive deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, as others have done, I think it\u2019s rightful even at a second reading speech to acknowledge, within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT), and Trade and Enterprise, all those involved with these negotiations, they\u2019ve done an excellent job and they should be thanked. It doesn\u2019t take away from the work of the Minister, the Government of the day, and Governments, actually, who have contributed to this, but I think the team at MFAT can take a bow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll echo also what Todd McClay was saying. When I was last in the UK, I went to the Foreign \u0026amp; Commonwealth Office and was quite stunned as well at the number of New Zealanders there and particularly in the trade section. I don\u2019t think it should be understated the contribution that New Zealanders have made to the United Kingdom in its ability to engage with us. I have absolutely no doubt\u2014in fact, I sort of feel weird to even have to say it\u2014that the New Zealand negotiators in New Zealand have argued the best deal and the New Zealanders working in the UK have absolutely pursued the best for the UK. But perhaps what we can see is that the understanding, the cooperation, the language, the jargon, and the use of plain and useful English has been beneficial and we have this deal here and now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, it is good that there is cooperation or agreement, I think, largely across the House. I do have to point out to members on the other side in Government that they were, at one point, protesting the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), and simply putting the word \u201Ccomprehensive\u201D in front of it doesn\u2019t change things. So I don\u2019t think we need to\u2014for want of a better term and, again, a bad pun\u2014cry over spilt milk, which will soon be tariff-free. It\u2019s just a sign, actually, that bipartisanship on trade needs to continue. We\u2019ve had a blip on the road when it came to the TPP and I just hope all in this House have learnt from that. We must, I believe, keep that bipartisan approach to trade in our foreign affairs space as much as we can, and certainly as we\u2019ve seen earlier in the House around our national security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWell, actually, that\u2019s a thought. Now that I\u2019ve mentioned TPP, we\u2019ve got this trade deal with the UK. So firstly, on that, we do need to get this ratified as soon as possible. There\u2019s no need to delay and I think I do need to echo what others are saying. We shouldn\u2019t allow the politics particularly of New Zealand to get in the way. Strike now and strike quickly. Get the UK across the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAgain, in a recent trip\u2014granted, to America, but I was talking to MPs from the Commons and Lords. Strangely enough, from the Lords\u2014they\u2019re keen; they\u2019re supportive. Let\u2019s run with that. Yep, there can certainly be, I expect, an advantage for a Prime Minister to be in the UK next year signing the deal, but, actually, our farmers, growers, and others need this relief now. So the quicker we can get this done, the better. And kudos for the select committee moving this through swiftly. Having gone through the report, it absolutely makes sense\u2014again, for viewers at home to really understand that the select committee and this Parliament does not change the negotiated treaty. That\u2019s a power for the executive. That\u2019s what the Government does. The treaty is negotiated. What we\u2019re discussing tonight is the domestic legislation which brings this deal into reality. I think the sharp eyes of your committee, Madam Chair, are well and truly present, including not wanting to give the Governor-General, with no disrespect to her, too much power; it\u2019s always good that a Governor-General acts on the advice of Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo our last couple of thoughts\u2014one within the arts realm and one within sort of some suggestions of how we might move further. There\u2019s an artist resale scheme. So I\u2019m putting on my arts, culture, and heritage hat. I think this House is going to have to have a lot of discussion around that. I\u2019m very aware that the legislation tonight does not\u2014repeat: does not\u2014include legislation around that scheme, but it has to be implemented within two years. I will signal to the House with my somewhat, and so far, limited discussions with the sector, there\u2019s a variety of views around that resale scheme. Again, for those tuned in at home\u2014probably all two of them: my father and mother; hi, mum and dad, I\u2019ll call you at some point\u2014the artist resale scheme is something that the UK has asked that New Zealand bring about. It\u2019s not something that New Zealand is asking for; this is, if you will, an imposition through the deal. I think that has to be approached really, really carefully. So I\u2019m looking forward to that legislation coming into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe also have to, via this trade deal, extend our copyright terms from, I think, 50 to 70 years. I think it brings New Zealand in line with pretty much everyone else. That\u2019s going to have a un-comfortability, Madam Chair\u2014Madam Speaker; I apologise as I\u2019m switching between your dual roles\u2014but I think that\u2019s going to take a little bit of conversation, as well. But I think, from my personal view, aligning New Zealand\u2019s copyright laws and various rights terms with the rest of the world makes sense and will actually make us a better and easier approach when we deal with the EU.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, a quick comment on that, I think it\u2019s really important that New Zealand maintains its negotiation strong stance with the EU. I know that they\u2019ll be listening to these speeches tonight from across the House. We want a good deal with the EU. They\u2019re an important trading partner. We want that to happen, but I think it\u2019s also important for this House to understand\u2014and those across the Realm, across New Zealand, to understand\u2014that, actually, there is a difference in the deals, and the UK deal at this point is better\u2014much, much better\u2014than it is with the EU. So there\u2019s, in my opinion, room for improvement there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think, too, we absolutely must\u2014and this is an encouragement to the Government\u2014look to engage further trade deals, and, yes, India is one of them. They are a massive superpower. They are a massive economic power. We are gifted, I think, in this country, with a wonderful Indian - New Zealand community, who themselves have said to us really clearly that they want to help engage that. It\u2019s so, and so, important. It won\u2019t surprise people who know my views around the likes of China, we cannot have all of our trade in one basket. Our trade with China is important. That\u2019s a respectful trading relationship. I want to see that continue, but we cannot solely depend on that. New Zealand must diversify, and we are doing that tonight by this free-trade agreement with the United Kingdom. We are doing it as we seek a deal with the EU. But we must, must go much wider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EMy last thoughts, if I might, are actually just an encouragement for us to go further. I\u2019m a great supporter of something called \u201CCANZUK\u201D\u2014this is a suggested agreement between the likes of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom; five Realms, all who share a similar head of State and Government. Actually, there can be a lot more cooperation, particularly in the movement of people. I know it\u2019s not formally within this agreement, but, boy, what a day that will be when New Zealanders, Aussies, Canadians, and those from the United Kingdom can actually travel to one another\u2019s countries without visas\u2014we can travel freely, work freely. I think that will be an excellent day. It\u2019s my hope that this trade deal is just one step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut as I started, and to bookend this speech, thank you to all of those involved and I acknowledge you and your committee for the hard work taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea3f33dc298412c9d401fb80fd38de9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Whoo!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00226c6ab888d09947da97bb0faa3dd29367\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c6ab888d09947da97bb0faa3dd29367\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. That was a surprise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a nation of trade and export, and this free-trade agreement with the UK is huge for our country. It\u2019s huge for our exporters, and predominately a lot of those are our primary producing exporters. What we\u2019re going to see with this free-trade agreement is most tariffs are going to be eliminated off our exports into the UK. I did note that, with one of those in particular\u2014and Ms Grigg might be interested in this one, given her comment around wine today\u2014there\u2019ll be $14 million worth of tariffs removed immediately for our wine exporters. So I think that\u2019s just one example of the benefits that we will see from this UK free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWhat this piece of legislation does is it implements\u2014it\u2019s necessary for us to be able to implement and to ratify our free-trade agreement with the UK. One of the things that I noted around this, with reducing the tariffs, is that it\u2019s going to boost our GDP by between $700 million and $1 billion for New Zealand, and I think that\u2019s fantastic. As I said, a lot of that is around for our primary producers. And I think this is a really big thing for our primary producers here in New Zealand because, after all, it is our primary producers and our exporters that pretty much kept us going throughout the COVID pandemic. So anything that helps reduce barriers to trading for them with the UK is a good thing, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI do note that the products such as dairy, beef, and sheep\u2014where the tariffs are going to be phased in over time\u2014whilst they may not have quite what they wanted, those tariffs are going to be phased in over time, and I think that that\u2019s a good thing; whilst they might not get it straight away, that it will come into play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill in order to ensure that we can implement and ratify the UK free-trade agreement. I think we should get on with it, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00220b752f2294fb4457bb481c893651ee06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b752f2294fb4457bb481c893651ee06\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Golriz Ghahraman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0020e6a5b7415eaa95e1e00bc64450\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2b833ba43d649048f157e158c6a983a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2b833ba43d649048f157e158c6a983a\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the enthusiasm of my colleagues across the House. I also would like to acknowledge you, Madam Speaker, as the chair of our Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee in working with us so diligently on trade issues that often happen under some great secrecy. It\u2019s often hard to get information, and we try our best to act as a parliamentary oversight mechanism together across the House. Of course, we also have to deal with all the submitters, with all the love and care that they bring to these issues, and often it\u2019s with great frustration that those members of our community come to our committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI know that others across the House tonight have raised that great big umbrella trade agreement that we all talk about now as either an incredible win or an incredible win that already existed, or whatever it is, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). I want to start there too, because the previous Labour-led Government last term agreed and signed on to the \u201Ccomprehensive progressive\u201D TPP, as I will always call it, minutes into becoming Government. It was a shock. It was a shock because many of us had stood shoulder to shoulder to protest that agreement, and because the Government did pass it\u2014and there is a connection with this bill I am getting to\u2014we ended up having the Government agree to the Trade for All agenda. That was forming an expert, community-led, M\u0101ori-led, environmentalist, union-led body that would tell our Government and future Governments what fair, sustainable trade should look like. The Government agreed that all future trade agreements would abide by the recommendations of the Trade for All agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThat came about because of the CPTPP, because that agreement did not meet those baseline standards. It represented a trade agreement that came from an archaic global financial system that had already failed. It had failed workers, it had failed the environment, it had failed indigenous people, and it had actually failed the global economy. It had collapsed. So that model was recognised as being not particularly ambitious, if not harmful and detrimental to our communities. So we had the Trade for All agenda. We had endless inquiry, and we had these experts, in good faith, engage with us, and they told us what we needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ENow we have this UK free-trade agreement. Since then, we\u2019ve also had the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, we\u2019ve had the EU trade agreement, and all of these agreements have come with the enlightened recommendations of the Trade for All agenda. So it is with great disappointment and sorrow that I note that this agreement does not meet the requirements of the Trade for All agenda. It was not brought to us as a committee in a democratic way with the ability to change, to engage, or to recommend anything to do with the outcome of this agreement, as was recommended. The submitters had no opportunity to engage with the mandate of trade negotiators or the content of what was on the table before we were able to hear their submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMost importantly, when we look at what has been celebrated by the Minister as the \u201CTreaty of Waitangi clause\u201D, M\u0101ori leaders in trade sat outside of that negotiation, didn\u2019t know the content of either the mandate or the draft agreement, and they told us that at select committee. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ll ever forget that day that the late great Moana Jackson was due to tell us all about that, and we have the damning submission in writing but we never got to see him because he passed away in the night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we have a responsibility to say that what a sustainable, fair, inclusive trade agreement looks like is not this. Why else would the Government have responded to the criticism that came after the agreement to the CPTPP, to have the Trade for All agenda drawn up, if we weren\u2019t going to abide by it, if we weren\u2019t going to include workers\u2019 rights\u2014and we heard that from the unions who came and submitted\u2014if we weren\u2019t going to include M\u0101ori interests in the actual negotiation of this trade agreement? Why would we do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut there are good things about this trade agreement. It does have more on the environment than we\u2019ve ever had before, though it remains to be seen whether the environmental chapter is, in fact, enforceable because we\u2019ve never had an environmental chapter that was enforceable. We keep talking about having environmental clauses in trade agreements, but we don\u2019t actually make them enforceable. As a lawyer, I have to say that that\u2019s all that really matters. The investor chapters are expressed in great detail. The rights and privileges of investors, foreign investors, are enunciated in legally enforceable terms here. The environmental chapter remains to be litigated. We don\u2019t know. It does have more detail than we\u2019ve ever seen before, but it\u2019s still pretty broad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWorkers\u2019 rights\u2014again, the unions are the experts on that, and they don\u2019t find those adequate. The Waitangi Tribunal has found the standard-form inclusion of the Waitangi clause in here that\u2019s being celebrated by the Minister to fall short of what\u2019s needed. Again, we didn\u2019t have M\u0101ori engagement in the negotiation itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe do have a women\u2019s trade chapter here. That\u2019s great. Recognition that there are marginalised communities that may be excluded from international trade and that the benefits of international trade may not always \u201Ctrickle down\u201D\u2014so to speak\u2014to all communities is great. It\u2019s a starting point. Again, to recognise the need for women\u2019s inclusion in trade is not to say that those chapters are enforceable, that they include detail that is legally binding, but it is included and it is an aspirational statement that, you know, we do need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWith the breaches that I\u2019ve just noted in indigenous rights and in Te Tiriti o Waitangi issues, and, in particular, in workers\u2019 rights and in terms of knowing whether or not the environmental chapter can be enforced against international traders, it is a disappointing agreement. In particular, in light of the fact that we have the recommendations of the Trade for All agenda in front of us, that we waited for them, that we engaged with them, that we had our communities put their hearts and souls into ensuring that those recommendations were fit for purpose for a future in trade that actually does benefit our nation and not just an elite few global multinationals. So that is disappointing, and for that reason, the Green Party will not be commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00223e01df8864e14d788ef87a569b428704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e01df8864e14d788ef87a569b428704\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill. I know, as the hours get a bit longer in the evening, and I\u2019m being collegial, what a bleak, rather dark speech from the Green member Golriz Ghahraman\u2014rather disappointing, actually. It\u2019s seldom that we hear something, at this time of the night, that is pretty much universally agreed to. The United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill, as the ACT Party has it, is a good piece of legislation. This bill seeks to amend New Zealand law in order to enable New Zealand to implement its obligations under the free-trade agreement (FTA) between both New Zealand and the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Copyright Act 1994\u2014I\u2019ve got the legislation in front of me. It amends the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act 2001\u2014well, there you go. It speaks to amending the Overseas Investment Act 2005. Suffice it to say, there is a lot in that detail. And several other pieces of legislation, speaking to Part 4 and Part 5\u2014several amendments, including the apple transitional export quota. All good stuff. ACT fully supports the ability to strengthen our trade ties and address these issues directly. As was canvassed previously by other members in the House, the ACT Party, and parties generally, don\u2019t see any notable negative impacts from this agreement. Whether it\u2019s imports or exports, whether it\u2019s concerns around health or immigration or our small and medium sized businesses and enterprise, the overall economy stands to benefit from this free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAs has already been well articulated, the United Kingdom and New Zealand\u2014the economies in both countries\u2014share a common bond. The United Kingdom economy is the fifth-largest in the world. It speaks to billions and billions of dollars in terms of GDP. This FTA could further improve the economic relationship between both New Zealand and the United Kingdom, and this has been previously canvassed in the House this evening. Ultimately, we believe this FTA could deliver and boost real GDP numbers by more than $700 million. And I think there were other members in the House that articulated up to a billion dollars in GDP revenue. ACT has always been a party that supports free markets. We articulate that routinely. Enterprise and opportunities to expand our tradable footprint around the world can only be seen as a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAn amendment to enable the application of the preferential tariff rates and agree to the New Zealand and the UK trade agreement moving forward. An amendment to provide for the Transitional New Zealand UK Free Trade Agreement Safeguard Mechanism\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure I understand fully what that means, but I\u2019m sure it\u2019s a good thing procedurally\u2014moving forward. An amendment to give effect to the extension of the copyright term and, as some previous members in the House have articulated, the importance of that moving from a 50- to a 70-year period, I believe. This free-trade agreement provides New Zealand 50 years to implement that reality. As was clearly articulated by my colleague Brooke van Velden, the ACT Party believes that our foreign party speaks to our values on the world stage, and signing such deals are a reflection of the interests of New Zealand and the reflections of the United Kingdom. Ultimately, it\u2019s good for the New Zealand economy, and the economies of both countries, in fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe all accept a long history has been shared with the United Kingdom. It is a liberal, democratic country, one that New Zealand\u2019s values of democracy are shared hand in glove. ACT has a happy relationship and seeks to have this piece of legislation ratified into law. Ultimately, free-trade agreements help New Zealand grow business opportunities, create jobs and higher-paying wages, and, by virtue of what we\u2019ve canvassed tonight, that could only be a good thing. Such FTAs that push down tariff barriers create an unlimited access to market goods under the right circumstances and, ultimately, lead to better economic outcomes for all those involved. Industrial sectors like the beef and sheep trade will see their duty-free quotas for New Zealand beef be incentivised in annual instalments from, I believe, 12,000 metric tonnes to 60,000 tonnes in a 15-year roll-out period. Then, to speak of free-trade tariffs for the sheep meat transitional quota which would reach 50,000 metric tonnes for a year, from a five-year through a 15-year period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ESadly, if one makes the comparison between the success of the FTA with the United Kingdom and the economic lethargy of the FTA between New Zealand and the European Union, it becomes abundantly clear, to those that have listened in this House beforehand, that the real economic stimulus in this piece of legislation was nothing more than an economic trickle in the EU - New Zealand agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIn the end, the ACT Party recognises that as our geopolitical landscapes are constantly shifting around the world, and economics around the world constantly jostle with one another, as they transition out of the economic woes of COVID-19, trade agreements like this one are going to be tantamount to good economic outcomes and, ultimately, create this economic low-hanging fruit that we all so desperately need. The ACT Party fully supports this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e00cd449076b469e8a1440ac483062d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e00cd449076b469e8a1440ac483062d7\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s been a good day: first, fair pay, and now free trade. I\u2019d like to start by very sincerely commending and acknowledging the Minister, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, and all of the officials, as has been mentioned tonight, many of whom have worked hard and comprehensively and applied their incredible skills over a period of time to bring this home. Also, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the diligent work of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, who no doubt very diligently examined this bill and, as a result, the committee made only a limited number of recommendations\u2014mainly relating to Part 5 of the bill, with respect to the apple transitional export quota.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere were several submissions, and I think two that stood out in particular were from the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand, and Fonterra. Just to very briefly summarise: the former said that the free-trade agreement (FTA) \u201Cdemonstrates [the highest] level of ambition in agricultural trade liberalisation for a developed OECD economy since the implementation of the New Zealand Australia Closer Economic partnership\u201D, which is high praise. And Fonterra noted that this FTA \u201Cprovides a critical and welcome level of certainty for a two-way dairy trade between New Zealand and the UK.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EBut, amongst the many admirable chapters that are included in this agreement\u2014in a first for New Zealand, alongside the climate change chapter\u2014there is one on animal welfare, and the FTA includes the chapter that recognises what is a high priority, that we afford animal welfare in our farming practice, and that\u2019s something that we, obviously, share with the UK. The chapter also sets out how both countries now will work together, as they have done, but to do so more comprehensively and cooperatively, including in those international standard-setting bodies that we both belong to, to continue to promote animal welfare practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis is a gold-standard FTA; it\u2019s one of the best FTAs that New Zealand has ever had negotiated. The reduction of tariffs and the increase in market access is estimated to grow our exports to the UK by over 50 percent; so that\u2019s certainly nothing to sniff at. We\u2019re very pleased, on this side of the House, that this Government has brought it home and got it over the line successfully, and, with no further ado, I\u2019m happy to commend it to the House and get on with it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd04e35c83d6458b9bc5a424f4c05097\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd04e35c83d6458b9bc5a424f4c05097\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on Nicola Grigg for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022a77baffdf1c94bf69df05854a8d2e382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a77baffdf1c94bf69df05854a8d2e382\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like my other colleagues, I rise in support of this United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill, as we near the final point in what has been a very long journey, very ably begun by the National Government. When Labour was still on the picket lines, decrying the supposed evils of free and equal trade, National was pushing this thing through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt has been, and is, as has been observed by other speakers in this Chamber this evening, one of the best free-trade agreements (FTAs) that has been struck in our history, and, I would say, particularly pleasing for the agricultural sector, which I am so very proud to represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f740ddb257242378d4d0b2455bef39b\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What about onion growers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4d421832854bf18b2d2e957efc856d\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Simon O\u2019Connor, my colleague, is also wanting to call out the onion growers, of which I have a brother-in-law who is one, so I do hope he is pleased by this too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EBut the work on this agreement started under the John Key Government in 2017, where we put the work in to commit to a framework for a fully comprehensive, ambitious free-trade agreement, obviously in preparation for Britain\u2019s exit from the EU. It is good to see this evening that Labour have finally come back from the picket lines and put down their picket signs of opposition, and they\u2019ve come around to realising that free trade is a good thing. My colleagues and I were just discussing before how much this party, the National Party, loves trade. We love capitalism, and we couldn\u2019t help but remember the comments made by Jacinda Ardern when she first became Prime Minister of New Zealand that capitalism has failed this country. Well, to that I would say, \u201CLook where we are now.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo we are very pleased that this thing is getting near to getting over the line and getting near to getting ratified. It does stand as a shining example, I think, in the global international community, and, you know, as an example of what good can occur in a country when we put economy first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is, of course, an entr\u00E9e for the United Kingdom\u2019s accession to the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership\u2014again, another deal that the Labour Party members stood on the picket lines, as did their friends in the Greens. But we\u2019re friends with them too, so we won\u2019t be too mean to them this evening. But, of course, the UK is our seventh-largest trading partner, and that must not be ignored in a world where everybody is trying to emerge from this post-COVID malaise and, indeed, looming recession for many like economies as ours. We must look to every opportunity to build the wealth of this nation, because it is by building the wealth of this nation that we look after people who need to be looked after. It is, as the Minister has mentioned, a deal worth well over a billion dollars when it does come into full ratification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EBut, of course, the main goal of any FTA is that slow but sure and gradual elimination of tariffs, because that does, of course, allow our exporters an even playing field and better market access. Much has been made of the quite slow progression of the tariff elimination, particularly for dairy and meat, but we do celebrate those sectors that have got almost immediate accession. It does, of course, mean that 99.5 percent of products will become tariff-free upon entry into force, and we do celebrate that and we do look forward to that day. Of course, we will stand alongside the Government and celebrate that, and particularly, as has been mentioned, all the hard work that has gone in by our officials over at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. They are among the world\u2019s best. They are highly regarded, and that is why we\u2019re here discussing this deal as gold standard, as many have mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOf particular note\u2014not much has been said, but I think it does need to be observed\u2014is the lifting of the investment screening threshold from $100 million to $200 million for those non-Government investors from the UK. I know I\u2019ve quoted him many times in this House, and I will do it again; as John Key said, \u201CWe do not get rich by selling to ourselves.\u201D This country has to go out and be really aggressive in its pursuit of foreign direct investment, of foreign capital. We are a very small island nation. Trade is in our lifeblood, so as well as chasing good, strong, ambitious, aggressive trade agreements like this, we do need to roll out the red carpet to foreign investors and welcome them to our shores. So we very much look forward to the third and final reading of this bill. We, of course, will be supporting it all the way through. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u002274f2d7d8eb8349489c78291d74b5c1e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274f2d7d8eb8349489c78291d74b5c1e3\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I rise very briefly to say what a superb bill and what a wonderful deal we on this side of the House have concluded. I almost feel sorry for the poor old Opposition who are standing there saying, \u201CWe had a hand, we had a hand.\u201D when they look at our record of bringing home these big, important deals that are going to protect us. It must feel a little bit sad to them but I\u2019m glad to hear that they found that there\u2019s some part of the puzzle that they had a stake in, too. But the wonderful winners in this, and the real stake in it are New Zealand and New Zealand businesses. I\u2019m delighted. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022923b272e1fc8493db06205f4eef466a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022923b272e1fc8493db06205f4eef466a2\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was going to get up and defend my colleague across the House Nicola Grigg about our shared love of New Zealand wine. And having just travelled around the globe with Ms Grigg, what I can say\u2014and I\u2019m not going to say this about the UK, but New Zealand wine is definitely the best. This trade agreement delivers very well for our viticulture industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI just want to make a couple of quick points about a couple of matters in the bill that I think are worth noting in particular. The first is that there has been a specific section in the bill around the importance of indigenous M\u0101ori rights in terms of trade. That is a first, and I just want to note that significant work was done by officials in order to get that into the agreement. It was noted quite heavily in the first reading of this bill, but I wanted to make sure that was put on record tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe second is for my electorate of Nelson, there are some big wins for fish and seafood. I just want to note that over the next seven years, we will eventually get to a complete removal of tariffs on fish and seafood for that industry in Nelson, and that is very, very good for our region. You know, I just note that our seafood industry is critical to our particular region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is an excellent agreement; it\u2019s an excellent bill. I want to acknowledge the Minister, officials who worked on it, and yourself and your select committee, Madam Chair. And I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002292a73ba498ec45409d611f31d2164941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292a73ba498ec45409d611f31d2164941\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Madam Speaker, what a good choice. Now, we in the National Party are unashamedly pro - free trade and capitalism and the benefits of people working hard and getting benefit from it and being able to make profit, because profit pays taxes\u2014and that is an excellent thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a045379086f49fe941c592e8af56fc4\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: And fair pay to the workers\u2014fair pay to the workers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb82d757ce134de69eae54890acb2181\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The left are very upset about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve heard from Emily Henderson, MP for Whang\u0101rei, who is very keen\u2014very keen\u2014to bring this home. We\u2019re very keen to bring home Whang\u0101rei, Ms Henderson, and we will be, because we\u2019re quite good at doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe have a brilliant opportunity in this House to come together and to celebrate the hard work that has gone on for many years by our officials and with the support of both the National Government, starting in 2017, and now this Government that has finally decided that free trade is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s good to note that apparently the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, the Minister for Trade and Export Growth, and the Rt Hon Liz Truss struck up a very good relationship, I\u2019m told. I thought she did really well as the trade Minister for the UK; gave an opportunity for the UK to get out of that sort of negativity and restrictive-type attitude they\u2019d taken to free trade with New Zealand since about the 1970s, and embraced countries like ours that actually survive on trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI know that the Green Party can\u2019t bring themselves to vote for this. That\u2019s a shame, because they\u2019re not actually evil people; they\u2019re just a bit deluded. They\u2019re not awful. They\u2019re very pleasant one on one; just not in a group. I find that their attitude to free trade makes me know that we are so on the right side, because they don\u2019t seem to understand that without trade, without free trade, we end up having 40 million people\u2019s worth of food that we have to have ourselves or dump. So I don\u2019t think that that is where we want to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe should also note that this party on the other side, the Government at the moment\u2014for only a short period of time, thankfully\u2014they were protesting against free trade, they were protesting against a free-trade deal that included the United States. They were out there\u2014Jacinda Ardern was out there\u2014saying that this would bring down New Zealand working standards. New Zealand\u2019s standards of employment have all increased every time New Zealand gets richer. New Zealand gets richer on free trade. That\u2019s how we do it. Whether it\u2019s free trade in dairying, whether it\u2019s free trade in anything else, whether it\u2019s free trade in technology, that\u2019s how we make our money. New Zealand workers get better\u2014better\u2014results because of that trade. We cut that trade, we end up with people unemployed, unable to work, or actually having to take whatever job there is available, rather than having the choice that they as free human beings should be able to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why trade is so important to us. It is the lifeblood not only of our economy but the lifeblood of the economy that pays for health, that pays for education, that pays for the police, that pays for our justice system, that pays for everything that\u2019s provided by taxpayer funding. That\u2019s where it comes from; there is nothing else. That\u2019s it. So, yes, we are unashamedly pro - free trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is nice that the Labour Party has finally come back from that very far-left position that they took under the Cunliffe and the Little eras, and the Ardern, and they\u2019ve come back into the light on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis particular free-trade agreement is a very comprehensive free-trade agreement. That\u2019s because in 2017, that was the way it was set up. And we\u2019re really pleased with that\u2014in stark contrast to the EU free-trade agreement, which I think really helps if one is an onion grower, a kiwifruit grower, and my colleague Nicola Grigg so passionately mentioned the fact that there is a family interest in onion growing, and I\u2019m very pleased that she brought that issue up so it didn\u2019t become a story!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut we also should think that, actually, dairy and meat, which are our biggest exports, really have been pushed aside somewhat in the rush to the EU. And I don\u2019t wish to criticise these countries in the EU, because they have had a lifetime of feeling that they are a closed shop, and they are only now starting to find their way through to looking more to free trade. And we should thank them for that and congratulate them on it. But when we get down to what someone can call \u201Cfeta cheese\u201D, I mean, I have to say, frankly, if your livelihood depends on whether or not you can call feta cheese \u201Cfeta\u201D, there is a serious problem in the economy. And that\u2019s, you know, obviously, a situation where Greece was very passionate about that. And, you know, good for them for finally getting along and being part of that deal. But, really, come on, let\u2019s think a bit bigger than that; let\u2019s think a bit more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256b0fed6f4374812bd085ea3b1f82498\u0022\u003EKaren Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s be ambitious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7d042f204004cc082b0422016a5a9b9\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014out in the world. A little bit more ambitious, as has been said tonight. A little bit more thinking about what we could do, not what we can\u2019t do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnd when I look at the foreign investment, direct foreign investment; how utterly important that is to this economy\u2014how utterly important. It shouldn\u2019t just be about planting pine trees. It shouldn\u2019t be about buying farms. What it should be about is putting it into technology. It should be about putting it into science. It should be about growing our economy in a way that hasn\u2019t been done for a long time. What it should be about is saying, you know, \u201CNo longer.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ERemember that whole campaign in 2017 about Chinese-sounding names? Remember when the Labour Party ran that campaign? The ACT Party certainly remembers. We certainly remember\u2014we certainly remember that. Going through, having one of their chief advisers\u2014a Mr Salmond\u2014going through looking for people on the property register who had Chinese-sounding names. Oh, thanks very much. What does that say? What does that say to the ethnic diversity quotient that they\u2019re so fascinated about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBy the way, talking about the UK and this free-trade agreement, isn\u2019t it great to see that the Conservative Party in the UK, a party that is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a731d9f958734704b1d9e6b9528fca7d\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Oh ho, here we go! Talk about the leaders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220545df3606734161b86400639bc3d54f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014fussed on people\u2019s\u2014and here\u2019s Anna Lorck. My word, she certainly can squawk. And let\u2019s have a look at the Conservative Party of the UK. Isn\u2019t it wonderful that for a party that is not fascinated by everyone\u2019s identity, they\u2019re the first party in Britain to have three Prime Ministers who are women, and now the very first Prime Minister of Asian descent? Well, fancy that. And all the time, the Labour Party\u2014they can\u2019t get past the fact that they want to treat people of ethnicities other than the white Anglo-Saxon one as being in need of special help, and of women as having to be helped through on some sort of quota. I think that says volumes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, we know that Liz Truss did not have a great time as the Prime Minister, but, unlike Ms Anna Lorck, at least she was the Prime Minister. And I think that she also should be congratulated for working so closely, I\u2019m told by those in the know, with Damien O\u2019Connor to help bring this deal through. And Ms Lorck might think she should laugh at someone who has done that, but, actually, I don\u2019t. And Ms Lorck might find that there\u2019s another seat about to be brought home, too, called Tukituki, which will also come home, because we like bringing things home. And it is so time for a National-led Government, working with our friends in the ACT Party, to make sure that this country does not squander the next three years, six years, nine years, like it squandered under five years of failure under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba6bef8f4ff24cd7b3911006ef06df0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba6bef8f4ff24cd7b3911006ef06df0d\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Labour Government, I have the pleasure of commending this bill, the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a98b1991cb5c4a62b1102dda5e78f6cd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000811\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c42fec5d75204ad58e9365f6df588ac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c42fec5d75204ad58e9365f6df588ac8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2\u00A0p.m. tomorrow. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221026b1d67b4c65b6413c879456f43bd4ea65000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"