"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efeb0163edbe4eb7b7e781295e6d3d03\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 17 NOVEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a5fe902d46a47c6869a47991899da31\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 17 NOVEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c90e8822767427388924d4f9fb25b4b\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d6d5c4576eb4430bab056055cf66c0e\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226dd32be98c5c4fa5a67ad80e92a2e7cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dd32be98c5c4fa5a67ad80e92a2e7cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249a46dcb99ac45ddb57ff3277538059f\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289b54a6161fd4c58882d78b0b1761809\u0022\u003EAustralia\u2014Federal Parliament, Minister for Home Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00221eabbceb30d643d0a6c960c30b79898d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eabbceb30d643d0a6c960c30b79898d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019m sure that you would wish to welcome the Hon Clare O\u2019Neil MP, Australian Federal Minister for Home Affairs, and her accompanying delegation who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e18d4a3d013446fbb2932b73537da00\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f28e3f42a28c41a4831fe440d9eeac6a\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa1485fc7d3942ad97934897fff3f597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa1485fc7d3942ad97934897fff3f597\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. On Tuesday, 22 November, legislation to be considered will include the first readings of the Natural and Built Environment Bill, and the Spatial Planning Bill and the second reading of the Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa T\u0101maki-nui-a-Rua Claims Settlement Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELast week, we informed the Business Committee of the Government\u2019s intention to move an urgency motion next week. Legislation to be considered under urgency will include bills to pass through remaining stages, such as the Arms (Licence Holders\u2019 Applications for New Licences) Amendment Bill, and the Dairy Industry Restructuring (Fonterra Capital Restructuring) Amendment Bill, and first readings, such as the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill, and the Legal Services Amendment Bill. We will confirm the complete list of bills to be considered under urgency next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c645df6673004c59b42c9a9723bef64f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c645df6673004c59b42c9a9723bef64f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the Deputy Leader of the House for that update. Will the Water Services Entities Bill be included in the urgency motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce5d03b98f44a4ca5ed0a77af734fc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce5d03b98f44a4ca5ed0a77af734fc0\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E As stated in the Business Statement, we will confirm the complete list of bills to be considered next week, but I note the member\u2019s interest; I\u2019ll do my best to accommodate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d183f22c088245bd9c61fe113e0d72fa\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebd00854430b4d60949523989961509b\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002242fe19098a7843a4a47a6b6f9a8bb54f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242fe19098a7843a4a47a6b6f9a8bb54f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022eacbc2f79fe54e808afd8a2d333a1b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eacbc2f79fe54e808afd8a2d333a1b37\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Hope Cotton requesting that the House put in place a requirement for captioning by all television and media organisations in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Mike Styles requesting that the House urge the Government to conduct an inquiry into dyslexia/neurodiversity, including their impact on society and the economy, consider legislation to cover their rights, and ensure best practice in education for dyslexic/neurodiverse learners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002247525febfa794a358349615124d573f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247525febfa794a358349615124d573f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e436c211b2ed471b83875134a608d85f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e436c211b2ed471b83875134a608d85f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMercury NZ Limited, annual report 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estatements of corporate intent for 2022-23 to 2024-25 for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAirways Corporation of New Zealand Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EKiwiRail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELandcorp Farming Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMetService\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Railways Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EQuotable Value Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estatements of corporate intent for the year ending 30 June 2023 for AsureQuality Limited and Electricity Corporation of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9a5af5127f48e7bf0dcdab62f3378a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9a5af5127f48e7bf0dcdab62f3378a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfec3fe20a2c461daf790a9046cfc520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfec3fe20a2c461daf790a9046cfc520\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Education and Workforce Committee on: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ethe briefing on the report on undocumented Tuvaluans in Auckland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Pandora Black, \u201CRepeal Section 19 of the Prostitution Reform Act 2003\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand financial stability report November 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on the Arms (Licence Holders\u2019 Applications for New Licences) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002206d6f002785d4152b520e30dd2fb5fdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206d6f002785d4152b520e30dd2fb5fdf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading. The financial stability report and briefing are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc17e21e2da8493eaae041a3f1e2552c\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c68800a82a5444a7b78b9c35068753e4\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2572cf483324f36a23c3b51b38f759e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ced9dd438a2d44e3b8283584483e93fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ced9dd438a2d44e3b8283584483e93fc\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement on expanding access to affordable dental care, \u201CIt\u2019s an area we need to give attention to at some point\u201D; if so, when will he give it his attention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002292d7c0f1f4fc4302beb7afd6fcb24938\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292d7c0f1f4fc4302beb7afd6fcb24938\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. How we provide equitable access to dental care is a longstanding issue in this country. Like most issues in health, most equity problems disproportionately affect M\u0101ori. The policy right now is that free dental care should be available to children and adolescents up to the age of 18 years. Notwithstanding this, I\u2019m aware that some families experience difficulty in accessing this entitlement, and more work is required to address this. However, this Government is committed to increasing New Zealanders\u2019 access to dental care. In this year\u2019s Budget, we allocated $125.8 million over four years to increasing dental grants and making them available for more people and in more situations. This means that from 1 December, the grant more than triples from $300 to $1,000 and will also be available for preventative dental care and not just for emergencies, and it will be available to working people on low incomes, as well as beneficiaries. These changes are expected to help some 50,000 people a year get the dental care they need. In November last year, we passed the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act, giving the Director-General of Health the power to direct local authorities to fluoridate their water supplies to protect people\u2019s teeth against decay. This new power was used in July this year, with notices being issued to 14 local authorities. Finally, the oral health promotion initiative is under way. Since December 2021, it has provided nearly 500,000 toothbrush and toothpaste packs to low-income families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db7ed346f0c4bb38d9301022c954187\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the 83.7 percent of people in the recent Newshub - Reid Research poll who said that Government should subsidise dental care to make it cheaper for adults to go to the dentist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9792ed664f4c6aa28b6d0cccc1386b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I indicated in the answer to the primary question, there is an initiative funded in this year\u2019s Budget, about to take effect from 1 December, that will benefit about 50,000 people. But in terms of a claim to fully fund all adult dental healthcare, the cost of that would literally run into billions of dollars, and, at the moment, the health budget, which we\u2019ve added to by about 45 percent in five years, is fully committed, but we will continue to look for ways that we can improve support for dental healthcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e551ebd55994565943c02fb56fa0c2a\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned by findings of the new report Tooth be told that 40 percent of New Zealanders and more than half of M\u0101ori and Pasifika people can\u2019t afford dental care, meaning that Aotearoa recorded the highest unmet need for adult dental care amongst 11 comparable countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f57cfc1446e4ecf9e1c44f154536661\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve read that report, and obviously those figures are a concern, but I don\u2019t think they take into account the impact of this year\u2019s Budget policy initiative, which I think will make a difference. But that said, I think the member raises an important point\u2014and indeed that discussion document from the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists. We do need to stay alert to the unmet need for dental healthcare and continue to do what we can to improve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c4f1f81994400ea6d423f6d06450fc\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept research from Treasury which found the Government could fund as much as $900 million worth of subsidies each year for universal dental care and still break even, with a $1.60 return on each dollar spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8761b92371142439d9dd8e1c10c971e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not aware of that work from Treasury. Treasury seldom comes to Ministers with the demand that they spend more money, but, as I said before, we do need to keep abreast of the challenges that go with unmet adult dental health needs. I think this year\u2019s Budget policy will go some way to addressing that, but we will keep a close eye on how that unfolds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b447aae5da94ce2bfce47317693931b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists and the Auckland City Mission that universal dental care is critical to the good health of everyone in Aotearoa, and, if so, will he commit to funding free dental care for all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973950da1c034e90a597f5d7eb68f211\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve indicated on that latter point that the member raises, no. I\u2019m not in a position to make that commitment, but that is why we do look for opportunities to improve the level of Government support we provide for access to dental healthcare. I agree with the member in terms of the tenet of the first part of her question: good dental care, good oral healthcare, is very important for a good life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1ca06aa02964d7294dead5b554198ff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022940911539485474286bb31b2d72f796f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022940911539485474286bb31b2d72f796f\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Is she confident that K\u0101inga Ora will meet its deadline of 1 July 2023 for complying with the healthy homes standards, and can she confirm that the Government will not give K\u0101inga Ora an extension to its deadline? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdd13a1b2b6c4cf38e994f393b641bc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdd13a1b2b6c4cf38e994f393b641bc3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: We\u2019ve heard from landlords that there have been challenges across the sector in complying with the healthy homes standards. COVID-19 did create delays with labour shortages, issues accessing tenants\u2019 homes, and supply chain problems for products like heat pumps and insulation materials. We want to be pragmatic about our response to this, but that is currently under active Cabinet consideration, and so I cannot pre-empt a Cabinet decision. K\u0101inga Ora has made good progress, with 84 percent of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s tenanted housing stock meeting the standards or being upgraded right now: 43,775 homes\u2014so 68 percent\u2014already meet the standards, and over 10,600 K\u0101inga Ora homes are currently in progress. K\u0101inga Ora have also accelerated delivery, from 180 homes being upgraded per week in June 2021, to 600 homes per week in October 2022. We are doing more to improve the quality of rentals and public homes than any Government in decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b02acb07ece4c4c943ce29c6182b0a7\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not sure that the Minister addressed the question. She talked a lot about landlords, but not necessarily K\u0101inga Ora and having confidence that they would meet the healthy homes standards, nor confirming that they will not give K\u0101inga Ora\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be3280cc05ec4c6c9898778c6d1f14dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m happy to rule on that. In terms of the first part of the question, I would rule that it has been addressed. The second part of the question: not completely, although there was information referring to it. What I will do is give you an additional question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7795976a184e44aaea2dcf3b9e06e6\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4b973b036e4e7995f55fc5a284952f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve actually made the ruling\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205f8d49441c940cfa1f1366d13d4f2f5\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: She did address it. She talked about Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16c0064404940279f20b2dade678b9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2014and I\u2019ll stand up on my feet this time. Yes, that\u2019s right. I said that the Minister did address\u2014I\u2019ll read the bit that I have a little bit of concern about: \u201Ccan she confirm that the Government will not give K\u0101inga Ora an extension\u201D. That wasn\u2019t explicitly addressed, although what I am saying is that there was information that leads me to believe that it was addressed. But I am going to give the member an additional question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3ca5d45a904ed4ac2c5c84ab306d6a\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has K\u0101inga Ora asked for an extension to its 2023 deadline to meet the healthy homes standards? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220396d442de364f33a74295562777b343\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Referring to the answer to my primary question, the issue and the matter that the member is raising is something that\u2019s under active consideration. I certainly can\u2019t refer to details around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233325819472d4ff3ac686df7bc8506fb\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out ever giving K\u0101inga Ora an extension to the healthy homes standards deadline? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f9f8e19b9fb4df583beeb5f9c237c37\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I mentioned at the beginning, many landlords, including K\u0101inga Ora, have experienced some challenges over the last couple of years due to COVID. They were unforeseen, and with regards to that matter, it is a matter that is part of something that is under active consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8585a173fb949619dbf259d363e03dc\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: When was the issue of a K\u0101inga Ora deadline brought to Cabinet? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9dbc7e2810469faa3845d99f4be290\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, this matter is under active consideration. With respect to anything regarding it, it needs to be considered by Cabinet, and, in those instances, anything related to such matter will be released in due course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022158b2ebbf5674671960cd0562df0f717\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve been watching the flow back and forth, and I think two or three, or maybe four times now, the Minister has said that the matter is under active consideration. Now, the fact that something is under active consideration does not obviate the Minister from answering that question in Parliament. It may be grounds, potentially, for withholding information under the Official Information Act, but successive Speakers have ruled that the standards of accountability in Parliament in question time is different to that under the Official Information Act. If the Minister knows what the answer is, she cannot just say that the matter is under consideration, or even if it\u2019s actively or inactively. Many matters across Government are under active consideration on a regular basis. That does not mean Ministers are not accountable to the House for what matters are under active consideration. They have to answer or at least, sir, address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab27260f914944209c645ec8d7929bc5\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Clearly, Cabinet proceedings are confidential, and the fact that a matter is under consideration by Cabinet\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0accefeec2438f8c1bb0a02d1eac10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Points of order should be heard in silence. We don\u2019t need commentary. Can you start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffe96e4c5594231ba5c74059e49beda\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: The fact that the matter is under consideration by Cabinet is clearly a reason for not disclosing what is under consideration, and therefore the Minister has clearly addressed the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a82f597264c40269f7c6edd882d9f4f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it really comes under the banner that members might not be satisfied with the answer, but the question has actually been addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f41bf4dcac14ba8bad95f809a99a2b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00226014fb44b86042e29eca19bbc57d91e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226014fb44b86042e29eca19bbc57d91e4\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What announcements has she made about supporting people into employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00226bcc163da78e4a66b31d9575b2e8a668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bcc163da78e4a66b31d9575b2e8a668\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Recently, I announced that the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD) role will expand to support non-beneficiaries into employment, education, or training. As part of this, we are also doubling down on our focus to reduce barriers to work for those at risk of long-term benefit receipt by ensuring they are a priority cohort for determining investment in service provision. These were issues identified by the Welfare Expert Advisory Group and the Productivity Commission. They called on us to strengthen and expand these services, and we agreed to this as part of the welfare overhaul. This shift underlines our Government\u2019s efforts to support people into jobs, as well as progress the welfare overhaul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a04c017e794b85b9a0435b44027c18\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What work does this announcement build on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022526cf6b0819d41d6960a1c2b02cd7abe\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: In response to COVID, we invested funding for MSD to support a wider group of New Zealanders into employment, including supporting those affected by COVID to return to work quickly. If we take Flexi-wage, for example, over 5,000 people who may have gone on to benefit went into a Flexi-wage programme. We\u2019ve also seen success in our targeting so far, particularly for longer-term beneficiaries, with 35,700 people who had been receiving a main benefit for longer than a year moving into work over the previous 12 months. With record numbers of people moving off benefit and into work and a promising pipeline of people participating across all our employment, education, and training services, it\u2019s clear the expansion has proven its worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c9f2d9d86f46799d49c76dcbf2bcc3\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important to focus on both cohorts, not one or the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07468a6c6da43b1b87eb24dd0630600\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: It shouldn\u2019t be a case of one or the other. We need to continue to focus on those on benefit and the support they need to get into employment. What\u2019s been missing up until now has been the focus at the preventative end, where you support people into employment, education, or training before they need to consider coming on to benefit. We believe we need to do both, and our focus remains on those disadvantaged by the labour market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265be7ea8bfab4981b0af688f9d0ee67f\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: How does this announcement prepare New Zealand in the long run?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3283fab489145c1adf3ba6235c2efe6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We have to be ready to tackle whatever comes our way, which is why we\u2019re thinking ahead\u2014this includes making sure we\u2019ve got the systems in place to respond whilst accelerating efforts to supporting people, whether you\u2019re a non-beneficiary or job seeker, into employment, education, or training. The investment now will pay dividends in the long run, and I\u2019m pleased that Frank Koloi of The Fono also agrees with this sentiment. He said, \u201CIf we invest two to three years in these young people, they\u2019ll be much better off\u2014not just today but in the future.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5b32fd3f87483bb3df9728fec19b8e\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she seen on this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e61d5448b124c358fdc263fb74ae4a5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I was pleased to read that the Western Bay of Plenty\u2019s economic development agency Priority One\u2019s workforce and policy general manager Greg Simmonds welcomed the broadening of scope. He said, \u201CThe success of Priority One\u2019s Ara Rau skills and employment hub, which is supported by He Poutama Rangatahi funding, is evidence that a proactive, community-centric approach is required to support the thousands of New Zealanders at risk of longer-term disengagement from our labour market, at a time when industry is crying out for people.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227bfc65a79dc745a786c80f56eb10ae2d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00225dcac89cb7b646f98561b97e0f1125d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dcac89cb7b646f98561b97e0f1125d1\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002279a183ea961f4d9abed1f2d7ce54bec9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279a183ea961f4d9abed1f2d7ce54bec9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular the new tools to reduce gun crime that come into force today. Firearms prohibition orders will improve public safety by stopping people whose behaviour and actions represent a high risk of violence from accessing firearms or restricted weapons. The new legislation gives a judge the power to impose an order lasting 10 years and makes it a criminal offence to breach the conditions of the order, with a breach being an imprisonable offence. The delivery of this legislation had been promised by previous Governments but is actually, finally, being delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf0264b5adc4c2aae7d39c8a9d8173e\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Took five years for this Government to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd8278fbaf54c568c1141c49eb31b24\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It took Mr Brown nine years to do nothing; we have done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224abb7934e2d141b6a19c07babafec540\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why have ram raids increased fivefold under Labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c38b54af98f74bb0b73ebb6fa24ff4e6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we know, in the current period of time, ram raids have increased, although overall levels of crime have come down. There is, from time to time, spates of different types of crimes. We do know that, in recent times, we\u2019re starting to see that trend downwards, but, clearly, that is now a focus for the police; they\u2019ve been arresting hundreds of people. We\u2019ve been trying to get in behind the causes of that. What we haven\u2019t been doing is reheating old, failed policies like boot camps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe65f8c931d4db2a6482384fbc68624\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think the current approach to youth crime is working, when there is a new ram raid every 15 hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b69f25ea044ce7a0be6060214837cb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that the initiatives that the Government is undertaking\u2014including making sure that we get wraparound services around all of those who have been convicted, and making sure that we get in to those families to make sure that they are given the support that they need\u2014are starting to work. What won\u2019t work is a policy that the National Party previously had, where 86 percent of the people in the boot camps reoffended; it\u2019s a failed policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ccc0c98b1634e99bb41d12989cf3555\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence does he have that the Government\u2019s soft-on-crime approach is working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c7edf70bf84e5e88a465cc9c6ae5a0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is completely incorrect in her description, but, if she does want evidence, we can return to the Ministry of Social Development study that said that 86 percent of people reoffended, when this was tried by the last National Government. We could go to the evidence from the then Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor, who, on 12 June 2018, said, \u201CBoot camps do not work\u201D. All boot camps do is create faster, fitter criminals who do more crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022931bea510ed14ae794c4b3b750b52b09\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think the Government\u2019s policies are working for people like Vape Room owner Savi Arora, who told Newshub that he got a call from neighbours at 3 a.m. to alert him of the ram raid to his shop: \u201CI felt so terrible, it was so stressful, it was very scary. I have a little kid at home and my wife didn\u2019t want me to go and check it out\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254880f19a2c74ebf91b70beabb0ca297\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Every member of this House would have extreme sympathy for anyone who is affected by a ram raid. The police are actively making sure that they arrest those who are responsible. We have a focus within our approach in the justice system to supporting and protecting victims, and stopping them from being victimised in the first place. The member\u2019s party\u2019s policy of boot camps will create more criminals and therefore more victims. It is a failed policy. The member should be embarrassed by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5f4c4b564349f49c1f7353ba6258b2\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Acting Prime Minister understand that victims of crime don\u2019t want his sympathy; they want a stop to reoffending, and how many more retailers have to have their stores destroyed and their customers terrorised before his Government takes some serious action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b050c0fdf03240ccbc5910dcd9d875bd\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are taking action. We are seeing the police arrest record numbers of people here. We are getting in behind the causes of these crimes\u2014the families, the people who need our help and support to be able to turn their lives around. What those people will be feeling today is that the National Party have no new ideas. They\u2019re reheating Bill English\u2019s leftovers. It failed there, it failed in the UK\u2014we will get fitter, faster criminals doing more crime. It is an embarrassing policy which, actually, I don\u2019t think that member would support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4eeab34bd394ac594d842fac301eb0e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he see a connection between soaring truancy rates under Labour and soaring youth crime, and, if so, what\u2019s he doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8cef27db4f4e22b821af592255ca2d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Every day, a member of the National Party gets up and says that this is truancy, when, in actual fact, during COVID, people were obeying the rules of keeping their children home because they had to isolate. The member needs to actually get her facts right, instead of scaremongering like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222008072237c845a391e51a9b6294d7bc\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: When will his Government stop making excuses and stop wringing its hands, and, instead, take action to get our kids back to school and off the streets where they are raiding stores and creating carnage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221021932dc13a4651b62a065f9e153950\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are taking action. We have arrested people, those programmes are now being wrapped around those who have been arrested. We are intervening to make sure that families have got the support they need. We have got programmes to make sure that we get young people back into school and back into work. All the National Party has to offer is a failed policy\u2014it failed in the United Kingdom, it failed in New Zealand\u2014and that\u2019s as good as it gets: fitter, faster criminals doing more crime, victimising more people. They are a failure of a policy shop over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b91d10957a24e74885645137f17056a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Environment \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022254450075b684f148159b7749481e9b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022254450075b684f148159b7749481e9b2\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How will the repeal and replacement of the RMA reduce costs and consenting times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2de4d9faad42f6a41659a9d80a1bb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2de4d9faad42f6a41659a9d80a1bb2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Resource consenting has become ever-more costly under the Resource Management Act (RMA). Between 2014-15 and 2018-19, council fees increased by 66 percent for non-notified and 124 percent for notified consents. It\u2019s also taking longer, with median decision-making time frames increasing by 50 percent in the same years. Processes under the new system will be faster, cheaper, and better, delivering substantial cost- and time-savings. More than 100 district regional plans under the RMA will be replaced by 15 plans. More activities will be permitted in Natural and Built Environment Act plans; fewer consents will be needed; clearer notification requirements; independent hearing panels; better designations; narrower appeals will further reduce delays, costs, and re-litigation. The fast track, which has already been shown to reduce consenting times by 15 months on average for infrastructure, will be made permanent for infrastructure and significant housing developments. The repeal and replacement of the RMA will be faster, cheaper, and better for Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022738b97a999b34698886710f3c728d3b4\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government not proposing to replace all resource consenting with the fast-track pathway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022304f4756a6424f7b90765a0c4aa1fdac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Fast-track consenting has been shown to reduce consent times by an average of 15 months. I\u2019ve seen suggestions that fast track should be used for everything. That, of course, is the wrong track. Including thousands and thousands of extra applications in fast track would cause it to turn into slow track. It would, in fact, delay major infrastructure and housing developments. It is a wrong-headed and confused idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eedae778bb084c01b4201a59726b28bd\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has he received about the repeal and the replacement of the RMA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa35e9f2d4c43b591271302d08c7b60\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Reaction to the Government\u2019s planned repeal and replacement of the RMA has been positive from experts in the field, including the Employers and Manufacturers Association, Environmental Defence Society, and Local Government New Zealand. Infrastructure NZ says the repeal and replacement \u201Cmarks a long-awaited milestone that can be celebrated.\u201D, and the bills \u201Crepresent a significant shift in focus to prioritise the front end of the planning process, rather than relying on the current individual project consenting battleground, which results in expensive and delay-ridden bespoke solutions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b3cad543424907922ea46b675305cc\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What other reaction has he received about the repeal and the replacement of the RMA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624fc46a5d214bf6b131c3e5df67143f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: One commentator last year said that the number one solution to the housing crisis is to repeal and replace the RMA, but now claims that the reduction of more than 100 RMA plans to just 15 natural and built environment plans, the standardising of consent conditions, the reduced consent costs of at least 19 percent is, in fact, more bureaucracy and won\u2019t improve anything. It seems some people have fallen back in love with the RMA. Another doughnut for the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeeb9e00957c472b9d0a61fd019f2938\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb72989c17d4573a5f409e1109121e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Oh, yeah, take the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f7405414014d54b24d449646cd81f0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022160d057afe1d4fc48bf3596c426e1bc1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to make a ruling on the last comment; I thought you were going to ask me to do that. The Government shouldn\u2019t use its own questions to itself to hold itself accountable, to criticise the Government, and certainly not to be bringing the Leader of the Opposition into the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4cac93df204724a93922b4998f3bed\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How does enshrining into law that the purpose of the new bill will be to recognise and uphold te Oranga o te Taiao\u2014a legal term that does not exist in the statute book already\u2014promote certainty and predictability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535d36a19cc641958f5de70a89c417ff\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That clause was recommended by the Randerson panel. In effect, it carries forward the intergenerational environmental test from the RMA to the new system. The idea that the old system was somehow perfect is incredible to me, including in respect of environmental protection, where it failed to deal with cumulative effects. The new system will be far better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227dc8ba5ccd30447ab17f2f6870ce8e4f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u002260c9ff8bb81c41b38bf4eb76b99398f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260c9ff8bb81c41b38bf4eb76b99398f5\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Which are the three hospital emergency departments with the greatest number of nurse vacancies as a proportion of their normal full-time equivalent roster, and what are those proportions in each case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022256676ff7d824e5d840b50a4732ac6c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022256676ff7d824e5d840b50a4732ac6c6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve been advised that data on nurse vacancies specifically in emergency departments (EDs) is not routinely collected at a national level. This information sits with individual emergency departments and would need to be manually collected and collated from all districts, which hasn\u2019t been possible in the time available. However, information related to this question was collected on 2 November this year in response to the member\u2019s written question No. 39263. At this time, the three hospitals with the highest vacancies in their EDs were Middlemore Hospital, 29.2 vacancies; Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital and Wairoa Hospital combined, 27.43 vacancies; and Wellington Hospital, 20 vacancies. I can also report that as at 30 June 2022, the total number of employed nurses at Counties Manakau District Health Board was 275, Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board was 95, and Capital and Coast District Health Board was 129. Pressures on emergency departments go back many years, and we have many measures under way to address them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e194630554048b4af8752a7044d35c6\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain to people in rural places like Te Kuiti and Taumarunui, who may wait hours in their EDs today, that each of their hospitals is short three ED nurses on average, and yet he will not give nurses a day-one pathway to residency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ac25ce5c9bf4c63bac175e064f22f1b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I rely on the incredible front-line health managers that we have to make sure that, particularly for EDs, they do the best they can to get the necessary nursing complement in place. Typically, what happens in hospitals\u2014large and small\u2014is that if there are material gaps in the shift roster for an ED, hospital managers will pull nurses from other areas of the hospital to make sure that they are properly staffed. I take my hat off to not only ED staff and nursing staff generally but to those managers who are dealing with those pressures on a day-to-day basis in very difficult circumstances. On the issue of the straight to residency pathway for nurses, I think we\u2019ve been haggling about this for some time. I think the member and his party routinely overlook the nurses who are arriving from overseas with overseas qualifications; 4,300 have crossed the border in the last year alone, and 634 registered with the Nursing Council of New Zealand just in September. We are attracting nurses from overseas here to New Zealand; we still have a long way to go to fill the vacancies that we\u2019ve got, but I back our health leaders to do the right thing in these very difficult circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7ba240112f48be84b22796515f3a94\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What does he think will be the impact on ED wait times at Middlemore Hospital today due to the shortage of 29 ED nurses, as advised in his response to written question No. 39219?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae50d16aaf3d48cfbfb6bb8ca8450b26\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, I take my hat off the front-line health managers who, every day, are dealing with these challenges and who redeploy nurses from other parts of the hospital to meet those gaps. What I can also say, too, is that there are people who turn up to ED and who have to wait longer than is desirable\u2014particularly those with less-acute conditions. What they can be sure of, however, is that they will still get care in ED. I met a person the other day whose opening remark to me was \u201CI\u2019m one of those who waited 24 hours at a MidCentral ED.\u201D I said to him, \u201CWell, I\u2019m sorry to hear that. How did it go?\u201D He said the care he had was impeccable, he said he was well looked after, and when he did get admitted to a bed\u2014he needed to be there\u2014he was very pleased with the level of care that he got, even if he had to wait longer than was desirable in that ED.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2960fb499944b3d85eded1a6eceb06b\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to ED specialists who say that every day in every ED is another Middlemore tragedy waiting to happen, given his answer to written questions showing an average of 4,000 people leave ED each month because of wait times, yet within 24 hours, on average, 400 are so ill that they have to return to ED and are admitted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e17af2c80f4553babb34a112780d06\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: We know that EDs are under pressure and have been for some time. That\u2019s why it was so good to come together last Saturday with health professionals and health leaders all across the country to talk just about how we deal with this problem that has been many years in the making. You know, when you underfund the health system for as long as it was, prior to this Government coming into force, it was important that we actually not only provide the additional funding but actually start to put together the long-term plans that we need. What is really disappointing is that that member, who had the opportunity to be part of that really important discourse\u2014because he\u2019s spent months criticising what\u2019s happened\u2014did not turn up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831d0e21115046cdac66ba551032b82e\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: When he just despairingly said in the House that nobody from the Opposition bothered to turn up to his health workforce hui last Saturday, isn\u2019t it more troubling that two of his three associate health Ministers didn\u2019t turn up, and neither did any of Labour\u2019s four Health Committee MPs, and doesn\u2019t this show that Labour MPs want to be as far away as possible from the unfolding health crisis for which he is responsible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e500f8e757684dd7bb9d9a657b7ba887\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s really disappointing is that, when so many people recognise that our health system has major challenges, and we have a Government that has put record sums of money into fixing those problems, we have a party opposite who has no plan and just wants to play politics with people\u2019s livelihoods and people\u2019s lives. I stand by the measures that this Government has taken to put additional funding into our health system; to rebuild our mental health services that were left neglected for so long; to pay nurses more, whose pay had gone backwards in real terms under the previous Government\u2014a Government that has not frozen Pharmac funding for three years and has not frozen investment in buildings and infrastructure, as the previous Government did. This Government is serious about improving our health system and cleaning up the mess left by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9f615021433454dadcb4057032d1eda\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Education (School Operations)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022e33a82afbd4646c7948bfdf04b56ea08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e33a82afbd4646c7948bfdf04b56ea08\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (School Operations): What recent announcement has she made about better supporting children with the highest learning support needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00227ffde14ffd7840dfa53d57f9d462837d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ffde14ffd7840dfa53d57f9d462837d\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Associate Minister of Education (School Operations)):\u003C/span\u003E This morning, I was pleased to announce the outcomes of the Highest Needs Review, where our Government has committed to substantial changes to build a system that better supports our kids and young people with the highest of learning support needs. The new model will create partnerships between the student, their wh\u0101nau, and the early learning centre or school. This will give students and wh\u0101nau greater choice and control over what the best support looks like and tailored delivery of services to the needs of the learner rather than what suits the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6176fa498fc407cb8098ededd06f185\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Why was the review into high-needs learning support needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213211a29777740789575d369ac364886\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: The review has been long called for by the education sector and practitioners, disabled people, and parents. The review has found what these advocates have been telling us: there is clear evidence of inequities within the system. We had over 1,100 submissions that show the current system, which is over 20 years old, is fragmented, and lots of our kids and young people aren\u2019t getting the support they need when they need it. This Government has committed to changing that so every child, regardless of their learning challenges, gets the best education that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e7c51b269b943b79d1505df801701e8\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What investment has been made to improve the delivery of learning support services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295966f82a1874855898baade7add2efb\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Following years of inadequate funding, this Government has invested in learning support services. This has been evidenced through the roll-out of learning support coordinators, $297 million invested into the Ongoing Resourcing Scheme, 95 extra places in the Intensive Wraparound Service, investment into front-line specialist staff, and funding the School High Health Needs Fund. While we recognise that many are calling for additional funding, we want to ensure the funding that is available is being spent in the most effective way to meet the needs of the learner, which is why we have committed to a comprehensive business case due mid - next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022066fe9683d1344f2b7335c2502c946c7\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she seen on the announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f28a0cb853460a95b0b3a5deb5e4b8\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Berhampore School principal and NZEI Te Riu Roa vice-president Mark Potter said that the Government\u2019s commitment to a bold overhaul of the current system was strongly welcomed, and I absolutely echo those thoughts. This overhaul is bold, requiring medium- and long-term change, which will require time to develop and implement effectively. There is work to do to address the fact that some students aren\u2019t getting the right support they need when they need it. This Government is committed to barrier-free access to education for all students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ece134fae92a42f8835874ca42438646\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00222e9fcbec5fdc4a80bbb40741979c79cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e9fcbec5fdc4a80bbb40741979c79cc\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he consider the current immigration policies to be fair and equitable towards migrant families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00225ed3cc4368904e48abcee10d1b704e41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ed3cc4368904e48abcee10d1b704e41\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. Yesterday, I announced that Immigration New Zealand will be prioritising resident visa 2021 applications from applicants who are currently separated from their offshore partners and/or dependent children. Overall, the resident visa 2021 programme will provide a residency pathway for over 200,000 migrants to New Zealand and support their families to settle here. In addition to this, other initiatives our Government has pursued to improve the lives of migrant families and communities include our recent reopening and updating of the settings of the parent visa category, reopening the skilled migrant category, doubling the refugee quota, our support for Afghan nationals to settle in New Zealand following the fall of the Afghanistan Government late last year, and forming a migrant community reference group. Every country needs to ensure that its needs are met through its immigration system, but a key part of that under this Government will be fair, equitable, and respectful policies towards migrants and their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9cfad693506440990f2bfcd5402260c\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider it fair that many migrants, including migrant nurses, will not qualify to be reunited with their parents in Aotearoa because the salary requirements are under the required $86,000 a year for one parent or $115,000 for two parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413d84a9195c44e2aed973e851c9fbac\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t entirely agree with the member\u2019s assessment. For the benefit of the House, parents and grandparents are able to be reunited and connect with families in New Zealand through the parent and grandparent visa, which is a temporary category. So I don\u2019t accept that it is correct to say that there is no pathway for migrant families to connect with parents and grandparents overseas. It is a somewhat different question when it comes to the longer-term residency category that is the parent visa category that the member is referring to. Our Government does believe that it is a balanced approach that we have taken. We have reopened that category after it was closed by the previous Government, we have increased the overall cap over and above what was previously proposed, and we have reduced the income thresholds below what was previously proposed and provided greater flexibility for migrant families to meet those income requirements. But there is a fair balance to be struck here to ensure that overall costs to the New Zealand system are managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4052979f0254227aa8f11277d6b785d\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with his Labour Party colleagues who recommended in a recent select committee report that \u201CThe review of Immigration instructions relating to health requirements for residency should consider creating exemptions for dependent children.\u201D; if so, will he end discrimination on the basis of this ability for dependent children of migrant parents to stop families from being separated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a0ef1608734db6a23e6aac81e21d53\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve indicated in the House previously, the Government will be moving forward with a review of family and partnership settings for a review process that will commence in 2023, and these matters can be considered as a part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c76a2acb490474cbd3d9c6dd08780ca\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider it to be fair that people from the Pacific Island nations need to apply for a visitor visa, pay visa fees, and face delays to enter the country in order to visit family members; whereas people from the US, UK, and Canada don\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a04c071dd1294c8f80eb895fbcd636fe\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do believe that our settings are fair. As we have canvassed in the House previously, New Zealand does require visitor visas from a number of countries, not just the Pacific, and, in fact, we have particular and special arrangements that reflect our strong relationship with the Pacific. We reopened our borders to our Pacific neighbours in advance of other countries as a part of our reconnecting strategy this year. In many categories, we have lower fees that are applicable to people from the Pacific coming to New Zealand. And, of course, we have the special residency pathways\u2014the Pacific and Samoan access quota categories. So, yes, I do believe that, overall, our policies in respect of our Pacific neighbours are fair and balanced and are welcomed by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224870728a7f3c4a8499a51c3281f6fc47\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with his Labour Party colleagues who recommended in a recent select committee report in relation to Tuvaluans and their families that\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cthe Government consider a regularisation initiative for undocumented migrants\u201D, and, if so, has he asked for advice on exploring a regularisation initiative for undocumented migrants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f8a4666c754429b741817e23d61301\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve commented on publicly over recent months, the Government does not have a closed mind on this matter and it is one that I have asked for further information from officials on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead38dd78cc54c008a114803edbe522d\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it fair to say our refugee family reunification programme is a real pathway for refugee wh\u0101nau, when Immigration New Zealand routinely requires applicants to show they can provide separate housing for their immediate family for a period of two years, including by showing that accommodation fund is already in their bank account before they\u2019re even able to apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266530ae1cf4144519a5161bda8f13e50\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I note that, in respect of that category, the Government has doubled the overall numbers from 300 to 600 this year to ensure that more refugee families are able to take advantage of that pathway. The member points to one of the inherent tensions that we have across a number of our immigration settings, which is that we do generally want to be facilitative and supportive of people, particularly in difficult situations, to settle in New Zealand, but we do also want to make sure that when they are here they are actually going to be well supported\u2014that they are going to have their core needs, including accommodation needs, taken care of. We try to strike the balance right, in respect of our policies, and we consistently keep that under review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022616d21f400bd467694ecc03fe2115917\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Broadcasting and Media\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002297a826b7b31241c9a94a2b57b201ca88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297a826b7b31241c9a94a2b57b201ca88\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Broadcasting and Media: Does he stand by all the Government\u2019s views and actions regarding Aotearoa New Zealand Public Media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00220a46600358b24c9191bace464ad06b68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a46600358b24c9191bace464ad06b68\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for Broadcasting and Media):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, absolutely. And, in particular, I stand by the fact that the status quo for TVNZ and RNZ is not sustainable. Commercial revenues are declining and will continue to decline, meaning less money for New Zealand public media. We are futureproofing and we are acting now, before it\u2019s too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221687baf8289f42148e8104c65eb078fc\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that worst-case figure outlined in table 37 of the business case for the cost of Aotearoa New Zealand public media is substantially more than $6 billion in the new Crown funding over 30 years, as briefed to me by his officials last week in his office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a627a1f741f4ebcb0eb083724ece03a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that briefing did occur last week in the office. A number of scenarios were put forward and explained to the member. And I can confirm that we went with the current scenario, but we considered all scenarios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff959554b62f459a9287d059f406e849\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister confirmed that the business case discussed permanently decreased revenue and increased cost to the Crown for the RNZ and TVNZ merger, did he contemplate, at any stage, any other model than forcing New Zealand taxpayers to spend billions of dollars propping up the new public media entity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c5727c3895c4c0eaab932da167a4af2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, all scenarios were considered, and we went with the best scenario.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d83632a8b76497ba5692da22a296711\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that \u201CWe need a public media entity with the flexibility to meet audiences where they are, utilising the platform New Zealanders are choosing.\u201D; if so, does that mean that Aotearoa New Zealand Public Media (ANZPM) will create their own platform or utilise other streaming platforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c1707d31be947b58fdcb71dba377a7e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: ANZPM will have their own platforms and work with other entities\u2014that\u2019s the whole point of this. We want to embrace our communities, work with our communities, and there will be opportunities there, and we\u2019re looking forward to it. We are so excited by this. We\u2019ve got the majority of submitters behind us, we see New Zealanders behind us, and we\u2019re on a roll. We want to invest in our New Zealand identity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3555b29cd6d4c55952140137c2250d4\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Will the merged entity, ANZPM, end up producing public media content provided free to digital streaming platforms like TikTok, YouTube, and Netflix so those platforms will be able to gain advertising revenue from them, as advised to me by his officials last week in his office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236fcb1c207dc450ea607e45f3c348ca2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, the operational CEO and the management will negotiate with the global giants, and I would\u2014you only have to use a bit of common sense that there could be a good deal in there for our national entity there. They will give away, no doubt, free programmes to community organisations, to M\u0101ori Television. That\u2019s the point\u2014that\u2019s the point\u2014of the entity. Please give me something\u2014give me a good question today; I\u2019m looking forward to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0dcc2fdfe6b4d358ce469a150c3af88\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002242bbcb71df6c49b19c7192ecff4be7a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242bbcb71df6c49b19c7192ecff4be7a8\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent reports has he seen about the Clean Car Discount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00225507d186b3af45fe8d53f8781586d845\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225507d186b3af45fe8d53f8781586d845\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s Clean Car Discount is going from strength to strength. Since the discount came into effect last year, 117,585 low-emissions vehicles, including electric vehicles and hybrids, have been registered in New Zealand\u2014over 80,000 in 2022 alone. Most months of this year, over 40 percent of the incoming vehicles have been zero- and low-emissions vehicles, making New Zealand one of the leading markets in the world for low-emissions vehicles. I have been pleased to see a range of reports demonstrating support for the Clean Car Discount, including statements from the AA, the Motor Industry Association, Drive Electric, and well-known Tesla owner Christopher Luxon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d48d2db627498a8f4ccbcba53f86a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I warned another Minister about this, and now this Minister has done exactly the same thing. He doesn\u2019t have responsibility for the leader of the National Party. He should stop doing it. I award the National Party two extra questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f160f15625294641b935b0378a449107\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t understand how that is out of order. We are responsible for the political consequences of mistakes that we make in this House, and to neuter the House so as not even to be able to make a reference to that which is correct in fact, I don\u2019t think extends to Speakers\u2019 rulings as to what is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb99c24cb3b74bb180f728e574093bcf\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker\u2019s not responsible for your understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022819663be31db438d88ea81f63082c90e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I can handle this by myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0af228186c471fa4ba07be68f86eb5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4e1dc5cd05d45519c5e6392e1580449\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Nope. I\u2019ve made my ruling. That\u2019s the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ce4adbbfdc44b08c9b8076644e956c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits is the Clean Car Discount seeing provided to our country\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbfbf2f4606741968408304e539a560e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is at the end of a very long supply chain and could easily become a dumping ground for the world\u2019s dirtiest vehicles. We know that transport makes up around 40 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total domestic emissions, and the tens of thousands of low-emissions vehicles registered since the discount came into effect are helping to provide the transition of our vehicle fleet. It will prevent up to 9.2 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions and will assist people with the upfront cost of switching over. Together, the Clean Car Discount and the Clean Car Standard are working in tandem to help Kiwis get into low-emissions vehicles, something Mr Bishop was once in favour of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c2ae85bb15b4c309143f7cd2c321658\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How are policies like the Clean Car Discount supporting Kiwis to manage their transport costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b1fe62001854f9fb16106846e89fff5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The Russian invasion of Ukraine has seen fuel prices spike around the world, leading to increased prices paid at the pump. The Government has moved quickly and decisively to provide short-term support for high energy bills and transport costs by introducing discounts on fuel excise duty and road-user charges and half-price public transport. The Clean Car Discount is complementing this work over the medium term by helping Kiwis switch to lower-emission vehicles, which are often safer and cheaper to run than those powered by fossil fuels. And, again, Mr Muller, who had something to say, was once in favour of this policy as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0e60f833764cf887a43bb7ad28ede0\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What other work is the Government doing, alongside the Clean Car Discount scheme, to decarbonise the transport sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f8aad9469e4cfc84e53f067c9da98d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Over winter, New Zealand has experienced the very real impacts of climate change playing out across rural New Zealand in real time, with successive regions being smashed by extreme weather events repeatedly. The transport sector is New Zealand\u2019s biggest carbon dioxide emitter, and if we are serious about limiting the impacts of climate change, we must reduce emissions across transport. On this side of the House, we do have a plan to reduce emissions and to transform and decarbonise our transport system, across the Clean Car Discount, across the Clean Car Standard, across investing in public transport, walking, and cycling. We won\u2019t leave a carbon black hole like that lot would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a3171df5551422bba8ee3e308db29f8\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Why has $41 million been paid to Tesla owners under the discount scheme, and why is the Government taking farmers\u2019 utes to pay millionaires to buy Teslas, with his reverse Robin Hood scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd191f24720445159dc82c914428da87\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Because getting New Zealanders into cleaner vehicles reduces our emissions. That was a policy position that was supported by his leader yesterday morning, when he said, \u201CWe would keep the Clean Car Discount.\u201D However, in the afternoon, he switched his position to say, \u201CWe don\u2019t support that, but we want to keep the Clean Car Standard.\u201D\u2014something that was then contradicted by that member in the evening. I back Mr Luxon over Mr Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0323aa933e4493f80360c5b5180b9f2\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that more than $7 million has been paid for other high-end cars, like Audis, Mercedes-Benz, and even one Jaguar, bringing the total to almost $50 million paid out for luxury cars under his reverse Robin Hood scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c7233280ea74d9eb459ded922d72ecf\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm under the Clean Car Discount is that over 117,000 low-emission vehicles have come into our country since that time. What I can confirm under the Clean Car Discount scheme is that electric vehicles have risen from 3 percent of imported vehicles in 2019 to around about 30 percent of imported vehicles month on month since the scheme has come into effect. And what I can also confirm is that there was once a time when some members of the National Party actually supported a transition to a cleaner fleet, before they got taken over by that member and the other climate deniers who are currently running their policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd02afa112414a1994f35da9009abe7a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00224a13c99c615142c59e49f6ff1764987c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a13c99c615142c59e49f6ff1764987c\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Did he receive the Te P\u016Bkenga Programme Business Case in October 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b9d4e00d944f43af7855c1442eb01b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e429062a1ed49aeafdfdb9c650b44f8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00224ad347d61cbe40aabfd6b13a2eeda684\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ad347d61cbe40aabfd6b13a2eeda684\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Education: Thank you for the welcome. On behalf of the Minister, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262592e1560174870846637a87d525956\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Te P\u016Bkenga Programme Business Case state an additional almost $1 billion of funding is needed for Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s operating costs that the Government has not budgeted for, and, if not, how much additional funding did the business case say Te P\u016Bkenga needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f69827f8cf64548a4acb4a8be428e1c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, in answer to the first part of the question, no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222709a5858de4482bb0b6ed37cc6383c8\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his Associate Minister\u2019s statement that \u201CNo discussion has been had around co-leadership\u201D, or are the leadership roles being advertised on SEEK for all Te P\u016Bkenga regions occurring without the Minister\u2019s knowledge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e70091cb404826b710862b43a54e67\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I\u2019m not aware of the document that the member was waving in the House just then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b2f4ebf815460b864e4cc8610308e7\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree the role description in the advertisements that \u201CThe regional director roles are co-leadership, reflecting our Te P\u016Bkenga commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u201D make explicit that this is co-leadership, and, if it\u2019s not co-leadership, what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be8126fab90b40a289a3d63c72842d86\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, as I said in response to the previous supplementary question, I don\u2019t have that piece of paper that the member is making reference to. I\u2019m sure what we\u2019re attempting to do here is appoint leadership teams that are able to reflect all of those in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226151c83c310345cca9dec6f345c6d926\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Doesn\u2019t the fact that Te P\u016Bkenga needs almost another $1 billion to operate, and the advertisements for co-leadership roles, show the Minister has set up the vocational education sector to fail, and the Government is endorsing co-leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11011f3f2784d769eebab935a8c2b8d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, no. What this process shows is that the Government is actually committed to vocational education, and not prepared to put up with what the previous Government did, which was to leave close to $100 million worth of bailouts on the books of the incoming Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683d65b1792b4cb89f8c012779d3afeb\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table the advert for the co-leadership roles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e655dde8b3dd40ccaadf5eb46bab7a0d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Is it publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270eb8827e1a844a3ae5d859b751d00df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it publicly available or is it privately available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c9ca2da29d44f4c9a74195300f728e2\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, they were put\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a640447616fe4565950cfac787f5c7f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m joking. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s publicly available, so no, you can\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249761a36f1314b209774d07cced72a03\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker. Point of order, Mr Speaker. They were put on SEEK, but they seem to have been taken off, perhaps yesterday. They\u2019re not now publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211db5054fa34489aafb2533a6203315a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If you can describe it again, I will put the leave. So the date\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ff4fe5b2474733b34f0e5b8e10284e\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: On 10 November, they were put up on SEEK, and some time over the last day or so, they were taken off SEEK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba05ac06277d47dcb551abdad3f47a07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. OK, it will not be tabled. Further supplementary? Have you got a further supplementary\u2014no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfd693f8a9ea4d03bda44d74df5d99fa\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00228294ff398fda496899ad21f05db1c417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228294ff398fda496899ad21f05db1c417\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Local Government: What engagement has he had with the local government sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022978b1f7334304d7e872e0f5e0d0da57d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022978b1f7334304d7e872e0f5e0d0da57d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Associate Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Over the past four months, I\u2019ve met with 54 rural and provincial councils. From the Far North to Invercargill, these councils have been sharing their views on the issues that are important to them. These included civil defence, roading, climate change, water, and housing, amongst other things. I was pleased that on the odd occasion, they even wanted to talk about racing. Mayors and councillors for the likes of Waimate, Waitaki, Waimakariri, Wairoa, Waitomo, Waikato, and Waip\u0101 have all had the chance to give their feedback directly to Government. Every meeting was constructive, and I thank every councillor, mayor, and council official for their engagement. We listened, I passed on their feedback, and now we are taking action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ff2545d133b456a800b680ac6542fe8\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has the Government made in response to feedback from the tour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe604f20cbda46928928784ec9b7bbc7\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: In response to feedback on rural water schemes, the Government has announced a $10 million programme to support rural drinking-water suppliers to meet new standards. Rural water suppliers are not impacted by the proposed reform of water services, so this programme will provide them with treatment systems, training, and maintenance to help them keep their water safe, as well as to meet new regulatory requirements and drinking-water rules. This programme provides direct support to those communities who rely on rural water suppliers for their drinking water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299279441eee1434f9930e4952a9c6757\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements has the Government made in response to feedback from the tour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc862cfd3ea4d0f8944a868332d2dd4\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Councils also told me that they need extra capacity to implement the water services reforms. This led to a $44 million announcement where every council in New Zealand will receive at least $350,000 in additional funding to ensure they have the necessary resourcing. This funding will also allow authorities to draw in expertise to support councils through the water services reforms and continue business as usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a0b9890b0548bf8889bc96376c13c9\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government strengthening the coordination of the reform programmes affecting local government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3cafd0d61e843bab87cad8e7805470d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The rural and provincial councils are clear on the need for reform. Be it in emergency management, resource management, or water services, the sector were consistent in their belief that the status quo is unsustainable, but they also highlighted that there is a lot going on with multiple demands being placed on the council offices who are tasked with responding to these reforms. In response to this feedback, we have set up a ministerial oversight group to strengthen the coordination and monitor the demands that the cross-cutting reform programmes are placing on councils. This is a part of our wider commitment to work closely and productively with the sector to secure the best possible outcomes for local communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ed4150f43549398dd5276b6f7db2aa\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What other themes were raised by rural and provincial councils?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f13b690741f1497ab8ba073fc69fbfad\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Rural and provincial councils were consistent in their appreciation for the unprecedented investments that this Government has made in their districts, but acknowledged that they were facing challenges. Rural and provincial councils are faced with significant land masses in their jurisdictions but low populations and limited sources of revenue. The independent Future for Local Government review is seen by rural and provincial councils as an opportunity to respond to these issues. It provides an opportunity to ensure local government maintains a crucial role in our communities and is fit for purpose for the next 30 years. Understandably, we also talked about water services reform. The rural and provincial sector shared a variety of positions on the Government\u2019s proposed reforms, but they were absolutely unified in their belief that reform itself is necessary and they can no longer go it alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b79c1239d0c040e28b244ea7b08f6fcb\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Of the councils he\u2019s visited, how many who opposed the Government\u2019s three waters reform now support them after his meetings, and can he confirm the answer is zero?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022252261a651fe4ec7981626e26d584966\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that every single council of the 54 councils I visited believes that water services is necessary. Everyone believes water service reform is necessary. The only people that refuse to accept that reality is the National Party\u2014the National Party is the only bunch of people that believes the answer to a $180 billion question is the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efe44bcbaa7467da28bef4185695c15\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: What response did he have from councils with regard to the concept of co-governance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a463f757444b95a6bcd535d1c5c42e\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Of the 54 councils I visited, one councillor and one council raised concerns over co-governance. And this should be a wake-up call to the National Party, who rally against co-governance, not reading the room, not engaging with councils, and not understanding that councils in New Zealand appreciate the benefits of co-governance. For the National Party, the solution to this issue is to ignore it\u2014is to kick the can down the road for generations to come. They can sit in their corner by themselves; we\u2019ll get on with delivering for local government in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbde10875ecd48c586beb40a34a22877\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I\u2019m seeking your advice on what avenues are available to the House when documents are tabled with an assurance from a member that they are not publicly available when, in fact, they are publicly available. Several years ago, this House moved from the situation where people simply tabled any old document in the House to one where they weren\u2019t publicly available. That practice, I think, is one welcomed by the House; it somewhat undermines it when we have a circumstance such as I\u2019ve outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242718ec302204238a43e19bfaf87e675\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, raising it as a point of order is not the way to do that. There is a very particular way of doing that. And I will make a ruling similar to previous ones regarding a question from the Government to itself on a matter that was then consequently used to attack another party. The Minister was not responsible for that party\u2019s policy and should not do it. That\u2019s the third time today. I\u2019ll go back to a previous question answered by the Hon Michael Wood and the point of order taken by the Hon David Parker. You would have seen that I ruled out of order the answer to a question to the Government itself, but when a question from the Opposition that contained two legs and two assertions and, in that case, the Minister also made a statement about that party, I did not pull him up on that one. That\u2019s the difference. So if the Government is asking a question of itself, it should not do that. If the question is coming from the Opposition that has an assertion in it and the Minister is responding to it, then I\u2019m accepting that, under the regime that all parties in this House told me that they wanted. So that\u2019s another thing. So I will give the last question to Simon Watts if he would like to have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d8adae26da47a5aae53ef76a8244f0\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister outline one council who opposed the Government\u2019s Water Services Entities Bill but now supports that bill after his meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d96f89872540b6a82afa8f1157378d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: There are a range of views on the proposals around water services, but it depends on the question that is asked. Many councils have expressed concerns in a constructive manner to help us improve the bill. All of them understand and recognise that reform of water services is absolutely necessary. If you were to go to any rural and provincial council\u2014take your pick out of 54\u2014and ask them the same questions that I did, \u201CCan you do this by yourselves?\u201D, they will get the same answer that I got: \u201CNo, we can\u2019t; reform is necessary.\u201D By all means, they can stand up in this House and try to trick us into saying something they want to hear, or they can go and engage with councils, learn that councils want to do something, and actually, after four years, come up with a policy of their own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228873e1441bf545ea8803086f6e22bdfa\u0022\u003ESpecial Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236e792f7747c4e26a5a58e76d2173352\u0022\u003EEmissions Budgets Published in 2022, and First Emissions Reduction Plan\u2014Report of Environment Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c45222d16c3243b3afe4326c32f0d990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c45222d16c3243b3afe4326c32f0d990\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Chairperson of the Environment Committee):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of the Environment Committee\u2019s report on the Emissions budgets published in 2022, and the first emissions reduction plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAny debate and discussion on how we best protect the planet and the future of humanity by reducing our greenhouse gas emissions to prevent global temperatures rising more than 1.5 degrees Celsius is timely, especially this week, with COP27 happening in Egypt, and I\u2019m pleased to speak to and introduce the Environment Committee\u2019s report. The committee was tasked with examining the emissions budgets by the Standing Orders. We also decided to examine the emissions reduction plan (ERP), as it provides a basis for the emissions budgets for the 2022 to 2025, 2026 to 2030, and 2031 to 2035 periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe did that examination over five months and, as always, public submissions were important. I acknowledge the 64 individuals and organisations who made submissions and those we heard from in person. Can I also thank, on behalf of the committee, our two independent advisers, Matthew Cowie and Andrew McMillan, and the Ministry for the Environment (MFE) for the advice that they provided. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the work of officials across the public sector in developing the emissions reduction plan and the contribution which the Productivity Commission and the Climate Change Commission made to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI also thank the secretariat for the select committee, who do a lot of work to ensure that our discussions are here in clear and cogent reports, and that 35-page report is, I think, a useful summary of the framework for climate action in Aotearoa New Zealand, the role of emissions budgets as steps towards our two key 2050 targets of getting a 24 to 47 percent reduction in biogenic methane emissions by 2050, and of having net zero emissions for all other greenhouse gases. It also provides a summary of how the emissions trading scheme (ETS) works and some of the issues in sectors such as agriculture, transport, energy, and waste, which are all major sources of emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe committee\u2019s examination is, I think, part of an iterative process. It will contribute to the development, we hope, of the next emissions budgets and the next emissions reduction plan, and we certainly identified areas where there could be more attention by agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EJust speaking briefly on a couple of the themes in the report, one was about empowering M\u0101ori, because submitters sought more information about the M\u0101ori climate platform to support communications to M\u0101ori communities so that they are able to better plan and respond to climate change and ensure that there was a M\u0101ori lens across Government\u2019s response to reducing emissions, and also to embed that whole M\u0101ori-Crown partnership, Te Tiriti principles, and representation of Te Ao M\u0101ori across the Government\u2019s climate policy. One of the other key themes was the need for an equitable response and for fully informed public participation in policy development, and the need to ensure that our climate policies benefit disadvantaged communities, whether that\u2019s in urban development or transport\u2014ensuring that people with disability have better access to urban areas and to public transport, for example. MFE said that one of the critical actions here around public information is, potentially, the establishment of a climate information centre as a source of trusted advice to the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere was quite a bit of discussion about the role of cost-benefit analysis: the recognition that that happens as part of the Budget process, but it doesn\u2019t always happen on other policies. The committee highlighted the need to ensure, as the emissions reduction plan actions are implemented, how we best assess how effective they are in reducing emissions and how we can help shift people to a low-emissions economy and relative value for money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe need a well-coordinated, wide range of climate policies alongside the ETS in order to reduce emissions, and there was discussion in the report too of additionality, or what additional effect do policies have in reducing emissions. The committee considered that this was a key part of the future ERPs and the policy debate around those, looking at that issue of additionality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIf I can now speak as a Green MP, rather than as chair of the select committee, there is no doubt that the emissions reduction plan, with its 300 actions, is a landmark document. It builds on the Green Party\u2019s work in Government. It\u2019s a blueprint to cut climate pollution in a way that makes life better for everyone, that protects nature, and that improves our communities, but the pace of change is too slow. As the United Nations Secretary-General, Ant\u00F3nio Guterres, said recently\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe are in the fight of our lives. And we are losing.\u201D Greenhouse gas emissions keep growing, global temperatures keep rising, and our planet is fast approaching tipping points that make climate chaos irreversible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe need more clean energy, we need faster and more substantial cuts to agricultural pollution and transport pollution, and we need more public transport, safer options to get around our cities and towns on bike and by walking, a thriving natural environment, and the creation of thousands of new jobs, and yet at the very moment we need to accelerate efforts to build this better future, the National Party cannot even get its U-turns right on climate policy. When they go from not being able to correctly tell people which climate policy they\u2019re going to rip up today\u2014because, for the first time ever, we have a clear plan to cut climate pollution which is being paid for by polluters, and it\u2019s only happened because we\u2019ve got a Green climate change Minister working alongside Labour colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWith the clock ticking, the worst possible outcome that I can imagine from the election next year is a National-ACT Government, because people want a secure future, they want a habitable planet, they want clean, renewable energy, they want warm, dry homes, and they want healthy nature. People want a Government that will do everything possible to safeguard their and their children\u2019s future and to ensure that we have a fair and equal society, which is exactly why we need more Green voices in Parliament and more Green voices in Government, pushing for more climate action that puts people and planet ahead of tax cuts and ahead of oil company profits. As the United Nations Secretary-General has said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe are on a highway to climate hell with our foot still on the accelerator.\u201D We need to accelerate our efforts to cut emissions in order to shift to that zero-carbon world\u2014not obfuscation and delay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere are often people, including some of the submitters, who seek delay. But, as Dr Rod Carr has so pertinently said, when people seek to delay by claiming that New Zealand\u2019s contribution is too small to make a difference because our emissions contribute 0.17 percent of the world\u2019s total gross emissions\u2014what he says is, and I quote\u2014\u201CEvery tonne emitted, whether it is from New Zealand or China, is seen by the planet as the same tonne.\u201D So the action we take here in Aotearoa to reduce our emissions through implementing the emissions reduction plan is absolutely critical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBy taking action to reduce emissions to protect the planet, we can also tackle the cost of living crisis, because if we invest in public transport and if we invest in easier ways to get around our cities\u2014as the emissions reduction plan sets out a road map for\u2014we also reduce the impact of increasing prices of petrol from the war in Ukraine. We also reduce those costs of living pressures on households. If we invest in clean, renewable energy and in insulating homes, we reduce energy poverty and we tackle the cost of living impacts there, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this report canvasses some of those issues around the energy sector and the agricultural sector, and the efforts the Government is taking in the waste sector to reduce climate pollution. It is a plan for action. Submitters highlighted the need for Government to support action by individuals, and the report is a really good resource for anyone wanting to get a summary overview of action to protect the planet. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb9a634ab464d91a4214f1300a38688\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb9a634ab464d91a4214f1300a38688\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Acting Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Minister of Climate Change is in Egypt at the moment, and therefore I\u2019m giving the first contribution from the Government in this debate, and I\u2019m pleased to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I begin by thanking members of the Environment Committee from all sides for the work that they put into assessing the emission reductions plan, which is a landmark document, which catalogues the many things that need to be done in New Zealand to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions so that we can make a fair contribution to the world\u2019s greenhouse emission reduction efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI am going to come back to some particulars across the main areas of our emissions. Our emissions in New Zealand broadly split half into agricultural emissions\u2014methane\u2019s two-thirds of that, nitrous oxide is one-third. The other half splits into electricity generation, process emissions, industrial heat, and transport. We\u2019ve made most progress in electricity, but those carbon dioxide emissions roughly split into one-third electricity\u2014a bit less now\u2014one-third process industrial emissions and industrial heat, and a bit more than a third in transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut before I go into that, I do want to address the politics of climate change. I was at a meeting recently and someone asked me \u201CHow do you take the politics out of climate change?\u201D I, somewhat intemperately, said, \u201CMove to Russia.\u201D I sort of regretted how blunt I was in that answer. But I do get a bit sick of the question as to how we can depoliticise responses to climate change, because, in my experience, politics is part of the answer to addressing climate change, and bad politics lead to bad answers and good politics lead to good answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard from the Opposition recently that we should be putting all of the emphasis on emission reduction into the emissions trading scheme (ETS). I think we should recount the history of where we\u2019ve got to in the ETS, because it was a Labour Government\u2014and I was the relevant Minister\u2014that brought the ETS into being that was to cover every sector of the economy. When the National Party voted against it, and the ACT Party voted against it, they denied that outcome and, when they took Government shortly thereafter, they neutered the ETS in a number of ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThey narrowed it by excluding for ever the 50 percent of the emissions that come from agriculture, which reduced the long-term effectiveness of the ETS by 50 percent. They then introduced a one-for-two emission obligation for emitters. So instead of having an obligation for every one tonne of emissions, you halved it. So they further reduced the 50 percent reduction by another half. So they immediately neutered the ETS price signal by 75 percent. They then allowed the price of carbon, which when we left office was about $20 per tonne, to collapse to about $2 a tonne after the Kyoto Protocol collapsed and New Zealand became the home base for all of those Ukrainian and Russian hot air units. There were movies made about it, it was so bad. So rather than the emissions pricing signal acting to reward decreases in emissions and penalise increases in emissions, it didn\u2019t work as it ought to have, and that was because of the National and ACT Party changes to the core economic instrument that is meant to drive reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn electricity, the last Government set a 90 percent renewables target by 2030. We took really positive steps to achieve that. The last Labour Government introduced the 90 percent renewables target. We invested, and there was contribution at the time, in a grid upgrade through the Waikato. We invested in the ring around the Waikato area where the geothermal is, the Wair\u0101kei ring. And we introduced a second route for power into Auckland to enable distant renewables to feed the electricity growth demand in Auckland. We replaced the Cook Strait cable. We invested in early wind through projects to reduce emissions. We priced emissions in electricity. And through those measures, we turned the track around for renewable electricity, which was decreasing as a percentage because we were building more and more gas. And we and the private sector together turned that around and had renewables going up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat did the new Government do under the Minister, the Hon Gerry Brownlee? They said that they would abandon the 90 percent renewables target. Now, fortunately, Gerry got busy in Christchurch and he was replaced by the Hon Hekia Parata and she actually saved the day on that. She maintained the 90 percent renewables target and we are now at 85 percent renewables in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c94dbe32c04996a4df96223d7d1052\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What about the 100 percent target, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022addddb0c06744c28871630b0815a29f9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our target\u2019s still 90 percent by 2030, but, when we get there, we will go ever closer to 100 percent, and we have the ambition to take New Zealand to 100 percent renewables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, the next thing we did when we took Government is we banned new block offers for offshore oil exploration. What\u2019s the National Party\u2019s response to that? They say they\u2019re going to reverse it, that we should be exploring for more oil and gas that we do not need and that we can use without further frying the planet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnd then, in respect of transport, which is our biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions now, for the first time we\u2019re making progress in the decarbonisation of the car fleet\u2014the good work that Michael Wood has led. We heard that in question time today: 40 percent of the new light vehicles coming into the country in the last months were either full electric vehicles or hybrids\u201440 percent, which is an enormous turnaround. That has been stimulated by the clean car discount. And what did the National Party say? They\u2019ll reverse that. So you can\u2019t take politics out of climate change and expect you\u2019ll reduce climate emissions in New Zealand because you let the Opposition off the hook for all of those appalling policy positions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, where do they stand on pricing the 50 percent of our emissions that come out of agriculture? New Zealand\u2019s emissions from methane decrease by 1 percent per unit of output every year, have done for about 20 years on that trend\u2014a good trend\u2014but all of that has been taken in volume growth. So in the last 20 years, although per unit emissions by agriculture gone down by 20 percent, total emissions have stayed flat and have not gone down. Now, we need those emissions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc06907806f44403b0c577285431d5bf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Food\u2014food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ac3fe276834d728036beff11608d20\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he says \u201Cfood\u201D. We still need those emissions to come down. We need to get that reduction down to about 1.5 or 2 percent per annum. It is manageable. The science is coming; we can get there. But the National Party, they won\u2019t do what Dairy NZ and Beef \u002B Lamb were up for, which is He Waka Eke Noa, which is a very gentle price signal to cause that emission reduction to go to the\u2014even there, on that 50 percent emission, again, on the other side of the House, they say \u201CDo nothing.\u201D They say do nothing. Transport, electricity\u2014it is an appalling record from the Opposition and that\u2019s why, come the next election, emissions and climate change should be a big issue. We do have a climate emergency. We had rivers drying up in Europe and China this year, we\u2019ve got wildfires around the world, we\u2019ve still got millions of hectares of deforestation in the Amazon and in the Congo and in Indonesia, and the National Party would do nothing about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to say one further thing. We all want a low-cost transition to decarbonise industrial heat process emissions and transport, and electricity is the key. We must look at Project Onslow and I want to explain why. If we build Project Onslow, which is the cost of one or two motorways, we will double New Zealand\u2019s dry-year reserve, but, more importantly, we will have a reliable hedge against intermittency for new investments in intermittent wind and solar, which are our cheapest new implements to supply. We will mobilise international capital into our decarbonisation at lower cost of capital and we will guarantee a low-price path for New Zealand electricity for decades to come as we decarbonise the economy. That will reduce New Zealanders\u2019 living costs as we decarbonise the economy. That\u2019s a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002238dac960997949dcae267a4f0e4c8942\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238dac960997949dcae267a4f0e4c8942\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E What a disgraceful, partisan rant. I\u2019m not going to be lectured by this lot, particularly that Minister, on behalf of a Government that has seen emissions go up for the last five years and imported three times more coal than five years ago. And he\u2019s got the temerity to sit over there and give us heat; well, that\u2019s coming back to him big time, I can tell you that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThis entire debate was established because I sat alongside Minister Shaw when we negotiated the zero carbon bill to have exactly this: a robust debate on the how. We can all agree on the fact that our emissions have to come down over the next 10, 15, 20, 30 years. But we should have a robust debate over how, and if one side of this Parliament wants to bankrupt the country on the way to doing it, we have the right as the Opposition to call it out\u2014and we are. Because your plan, that you waved to us, is nothing more than a long-term drive to economic suicide in this country. And it is our expectation as an Opposition party to be able to call it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s look firstly at carbon dioxide. As the Minister said, it\u2019s part of our emissions portfolio. We will be a technology taker in the carbon dioxide space, and anyone who doesn\u2019t sort of see it like that is missing the point. So what does that mean? That means we have to be very focused on how we enable that technology that exists in the other side of the world to be deployed in a New Zealand context. We have to focus on innovation investment, on enabling infrastructure, and we must bring commercial acuity to the discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s go to transport emissions and transport that has so dominated the debate over the last two or three days\u201417 percent of our emissions. We have made it clear that the standards that have been brought in to ensure that cars have to meet a lower and lower emissions profile over time is the right direction. But we totally reject this Government\u2019s view that the way you then incentivise the uptake is to throw cash around, because there is no economic discipline in that. In fact, it\u2019s worse than that, because what this Government does is say, \u201CRighty ho, if you want a Tesla, we\u2019re going to discount it and we\u2019ll spend $45 million enabling that, and if you\u2019re a farmer who has no choice but to actually need a four-wheel drive to get around your property.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EBy the way, why don\u2019t you some time go and visit a farmer and actually see for yourself what\u2019s going on out there? Sometimes I think you live in the own little world. Go and visit a farm and actually see what it\u2019s like. They don\u2019t have electric four-by-fours everywhere that they can use; they have to use a decent four-by-four. They have been taxed and that is your approach\u2014that is the Government\u2019s approach\u2014that we will make it easier for Tesla owners and we will tax farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe say: the standard\u2019s right, the taxing is wrong, and what we would do is we would ensure that there was actually a network\u2014an infrastructure network\u2014so you could actually charge the electric vehicles. That\u2019s called commercial acuity. That side wouldn\u2019t even know what it was if they looked it up in a dictionary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s go to energy. The Minister said before, \u201COur target\u2019s 90 percent.\u201D No, it\u2019s not. Read your own policy, Minister. It\u2019s 100 percent, it\u2019s in the committee\u2019s report back. And guess what the marginal cost per carbon dioxide to get that 100 percent: $1,200 a tonne\u2014does that come from me? No; that comes from the Interim Climate Change Committee. So this Government stands up and says, \u201CRenewable energy\u2019s important.\u201D We agree it\u2019s important. \u201COh, no, we need to get to 100 percent. Even if the marginal cost of the additional 1 percent to go from 95 to 100 is $1,200 a ton.\u201D These guys have no idea around the commercial impact on New Zealand of a policy like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s take industrial heat. And this is fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235dd9ab133204ec0b2b4b6cdd2d10370\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: So what would you do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268fdd6a2ffe5475b81e12dbb6c0d0116\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called an emissions trading scheme (ETS)\u2014I\u2019ll tell you if you listen\u2014but it\u2019s really interesting. It\u2019s really interesting when you look at industrial heat, because what you\u2019ve got there is businesses who can see that their manufacturing process is actually creating an emissions impact, there is technology available to mitigate it, they can offset their current emissions by planting a tree. Only in New Zealand can 100 percent of those businesses have that option\u2014no other country\u2014and they can go and do it. And guess what the cost of planting a tree over the course of its life is! It\u2019s $15 a tonne\u2014add the land to it: $75, $80 a tonne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhat you are seeing is gross emissions are not going down because of this Government\u2019s ETS settings. What happens is as that price rises, they\u2019ll go and buy another sheep and beef farm in the Wairarapa to ensure that they can fulfil their obligations in terms of reporting, but their gross emissions don\u2019t go down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EOur view is the technology exists and the incentive is there for those businesses to deploy that technology in their business. But why would they, if they know that over there is a Government that will just spray the money around and say, \u201COh, look, we\u2019ll pay for it for you.\u201D Well, of course they\u2019re going to support it, because not only do they get ETS subsidy on the one side\u2014offset on the one side\u2014they\u2019ll get a Government subsidy in terms of any capital they need to deploy. But it is not an effective use of taxpayer money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe of course support the revenue that comes in from the ETS to be deployed in a way that is enabling innovation, infrastructure. But be commercial about it, please. This is the thing. Our criticism of what you are doing is not because we don\u2019t believe something shouldn\u2019t be done; it\u2019s not because we don\u2019t think climate is important. It\u2019s because you are hard-wired to spray and walk away. You don\u2019t understand about investing at a marginal price above the current ETS; you don\u2019t understand it. So from your perspective, as long as it\u2019s hundreds of millions of dollars, as long as it looks good in the UN, as long as the Prime Minister can appear to be first, fast, and famous, you don\u2019t care what the cost of it is. That\u2019s the point: you actually have to bring some commercial discipline to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo now let\u2019s move to agriculture and I\u2019ll conclude on some of those comments\u2014half the emissions profile. For a start, what an appalling speech from the Minister before. Essentially, 10 minutes of criticism, particularly of the agriculture sector. No wonder you guys are looking at the floor, because the agriculture sector looks back at this Government with despair, because there is never a view which says, \u201CBy the way, well done for what you\u2019ve done; by the way, well done for your adaptation; by the way, well done for your innovation over the last 20, 30 years.\u201D Oh no, it\u2019s just crickets. You couldn\u2019t get that word out of your mouth if you tried\u2014\u201Cwell done.\u201D So you\u2019ve got a sector that is sitting there who have been working in terms of their freshwater improvement, their nutrient improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ERuminant animals create this pressure. We are the most carbon-efficient animal protein producers in the world, and they are lining up and saying, \u201CWe accept we need to improve.\u201D So what you need to be doing, what the Government needs to be doing, is partnering with them. The Minister says, \u201CTax is good.\u201D We say, \u201CWhy don\u2019t you work with the sector? Why don\u2019t, actually, you build a model which is a levy base on the one hand to support innovation and the establishment of technology to be able to identify what goes on on the farm, and then let the farmers count the sequestration in their land.\u201D But this Government says, \u201CNo, we don\u2019t want to do that. No, we don\u2019t want a levy; we want it to be a tax,\u201D and then have the audacity to stand over there and lecture us on not having a plan. You have a plan: it\u2019s called hopeless and if you take this up, it\u2019s electorate suicide, I tell you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo we will work with the sector and we will make sure that there is\u2014and we have made it clear that there will be a price on agriculture, but it\u2019s a price that is balanced with the capacity for the sector to adapt and to build on their world-best position. And the Government will continually shout back denials that our approach to this is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI can assure you that this is hard work, and the way you actually make a difference in terms of investment in a business\u2014investment on farm\u2014is partnering with them, not regulating, taxing, throwing money away as if it grows on trees. Start being commercial, start partnering in a long-term manner, and you\u2019ll find that, actually, we can do this as a country. At the moment, the progress is despite you, not because of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00225cb77d42da894ba78d11ff5afd0cac6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cb77d42da894ba78d11ff5afd0cac6e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Look, the ACT Party knows that New Zealand\u2019s agreed that, under the Paris Agreement, we need to play our part to limit global temperature rise to around 1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels by 2100. Now, I\u2019m a civil and environmental engineer, and I came to Parliament to solve problems just like this. But, sadly, the emissions reduction plan proposed by Minister James Shaw, and supported by the Labour Government, does not reduce our emissions. It does not reduce our emissions any more than what would occur under the capped emissions trading scheme. Because the emissions trading scheme sets a cap on New Zealand\u2019s emissions every year and all of the carbon you reduce with your ute tax, your car scrappage, and all of the other schemes paying big business like Fonterra, paying big business like breweries, to replace a coal boiler with something else they would have replaced anyway, it doesn\u2019t reduce our emissions by a single tonne more than allowed under the cap under the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, Kiwis pay for their fossil fuel emissions right now: about 20c a litre on petrol and diesel\u2014that\u2019s about $20 a month on an average power bill. That\u2019s a huge incentive to reduce fuel usage and save energy. The emissions reduction plan is actually a combination of bad policy, virtue signalling, and wishful thinking\u2014those are three things that this Government\u2019s actually really, really good at. Their track record in climate policy is that coal imports have doubled in the past three years. Now, the Government wants to tax farm emissions. Today, Groundswell delivered a petition to ACT MPs at Parliament with a 102,000 signatures, signed by Kiwis rejecting the Government\u2019s plan. Kiwi farmers are amongst the most efficient in the world. Taxing Kiwi farmers will only push emissions offshore, production offshore, and lead to higher global emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ELook at the emissions trading scheme plan for \u201Ccash for clunkers\u201D. The Government proposes handing out $8,000 to $12,000 to people who hand in a used car in exchange for cash to take people\u2019s petrol and diesel vehicles off the road. Imagine handing out $12,000 of taxpayer funds for a used car that a wrecker told me they\u2019d give you a hundred bucks for. Only under Labour. Well, it gets worse. This scheme is expected to cost $569 million\u2014half a billion dollars. The emissions reduction would only be 4,500 tonnes a year, according to a reply to a written question from Minister Michael Wood. That\u2019s 4,500 out of New Zealand\u2019s 80 million tonnes a year, for half a billion dollars. That\u2019s $126,000 per tonne of carbon reduced, compared to 85 bucks a tonne\u2014you could buy a credit on an emissions trading scheme today right now and shred it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, the ACT Party also wants to raise a warning. The emissions reduction plan contains actions such as income insurance, which are entirely irrelevant to emissions reduction. By including highly political, but completely irrelevant, policies in the emissions reduction plan, a future Government including ACT will have no choice but to bin this emissions reduction plan and get rid of the zero carbon Act that enables the central planning nightmare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, this is what ACT would do instead: we\u2019d set a cap on emissions equivalent to the average of our top-five trading partners. New Zealand does need to play its part to reduce our emissions, but not at the expense of food production in sending high-paid manufacturing jobs offshore. ACT would also return the billions collected under the emissions trading scheme to Kiwis\u2014Kiwis who pay for their emissions at the pump and in their power bills. We\u2019d return $250 per person, per year\u2014around $750 per household\u2014through the emissions trading scheme revenues, instead of wasting it on \u201Ccash for clunkers\u201D and all these other madcap schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019d also allow New Zealand businesses to mitigate their emissions offshore at lowest cost, using certified carbon mitigation schemes. That\u2019s proposed in my member\u2019s bill; it\u2019s also allowed under the Paris Agreement, but it\u2019s currently banned under the zero carbon Act. Countries like Switzerland are doing this in Fiji: they\u2019re replanting mangroves, they\u2019re carrying out climate diplomacy in the Pacific, and cutting New Zealand\u2019s carbon climate reduction lunch. I\u2019ve written to James Shaw today to seek his support for my member\u2019s bill. That\u2019s ACT\u2019s practical solution to help New Zealand meet its emissions reduction targets, and actually do things in the Pacific and with our neighbours that help them. And I\u2019ll also ask members in this House to support my bill, so that together we can create enduring climate policy, not this absolute farce that this Government\u2014and the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw, who we haven\u2019t heard from from his resort in Egypt since he left\u2014have delivered to this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EACT wants New Zealand to play its part in climate change. We want it to be enduring, but we also want New Zealanders to get the reward\u2014the carbon dividend that they deserve for saving on emissions. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f89be94eae4f4bb181683c2fef1e507a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f89be94eae4f4bb181683c2fef1e507a\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. We agree that urgent action on climate change is an issue, and probably should be an issue that unites us all in the House. We may have different versions of that unity! We are living in a world and acknowledge the extreme natural disasters, the rising displacement, the extreme poverty that we\u2019re seeing not only here in Aotearoa but disproportionately impacting on indigenous peoples around the world. The global climate and inequality crisis is something that is of huge concern to us, and we acknowledge what our Green Party colleagues said\u2014that climate change is here, and climate change now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not surprised with the reluctance across the House on how we should be looking after our planet. We\u2019ve heard that commercialisation, profits, should come before planet and people. Te Paati M\u0101ori, however, does not support the 2022 emissions budget, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a surprise to the Government. We\u2019ve had a strong view that it needed to be more ambitious and meet more international commitments and our obligations to future generations. However, despite the denials on my right, agriculture is causing 50 percent of this country\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions, and this means that dealing with farm emissions is one of the most important decisions that the Government should be making around the climate crisis. So we don\u2019t agree that He Waka Eke Noa does that. In fact, it fails, and we\u2019ve consistently called for the Government, and particularly the Minister, to provide more transformative action on the highest climate polluting sector, which is intensifying dairy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe believe that Aotearoa has the highest per capita\u2014actually, facts tell us that Aotearoa has the highest per capita\u2014methane emissions in the world, and six times the global average is unacceptable. We\u2019d immediately price methane emissions under the emissions trading scheme (ETS), set limits on stocking levels, and phase out synthetic nitrogen fertilisers while also requiring manufacturers and importers of synthetic nitrogen fertiliser to pay for emissions under the ETS. So, rather than advantaging intensified dairy and disadvantaging less polluting and less profitable M\u0101ori-owned beef and sheep farms, as we\u2019ve seen that a lot of this plan has done, we would definitely look at transitioning and subsidising our landowners into regenerative and value-added farming. I think we can all agree that\u2019s the best way forward. Just as we saw with forestry, the Government\u2019s relentless focus on engaging with wealthy dairy lobbyists has meant they have often ignored groups and sectors who have needed the most support to transition and remain economically viable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe Productivity Commission\u2019s report Low-emissions economy highlighted that M\u0101ori were particularly vulnerable to the downstream effects of the imposed cost of emissions and a high representation in low-income households. Nuances of collective ownership and governance models create lots of challenges and limit options for M\u0101ori. So, despite the glaringly obvious gaps, our belief is that more must be done to specifically focus on M\u0101ori communities and just transitioning and ensuring equality and equity are given priority, to have access to rights and interests, actually, which many have yet to be resolved on. We agree that we must invest in new sustainable economies\u2014actually, we can give you a tip for that\u2014however, we think that that needs to be a blue economy which is about renewable energy strategies, wind turbine opportunities, and developing a sustainable future that isn\u2019t ruining our mokopuna\u2019s future. A just transition will never be just if it prioritises and follows commercialisation and multi-monopolies at the expense of tangata whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe believe more must be done to involve and assist M\u0101ori in leading renewable energy strategies, and I\u2019m really pleased to see what\u2019s going on with our Taranaki iwi-led strategy. As Taranaki uri, we live the commercial clean-up of the decommissioning oil and mineral sector and continue to fight to stop 30 years of seabed mining and years of polluting discharge, which no Government over the last eight years has stopped. As Taranaki uri, we also live with polluted waters from agricultural sectors, and our rivers are dammed to give us the worst electricity prices ever. So I agree we must have a more green focus, with a blue economy in our prospects, but it must be tangata whenua, Tiriti-centric in an Aotearoa that means wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi must lead. The solutions must be our own. Nothing less will achieve the reductions in emissions needed to keep our mokopuna safe and well. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226a0119ee736344899118ff806092d1da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a0119ee736344899118ff806092d1da\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. After what\u2019s been a rather energised start to this debate, and then we\u2019ve had some assertions of too much lobbying from dairy farmers\u2014an interesting, interesting afternoon in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut I am quite keen to talk about this report of the Environment Committee. I\u2019m very proud to be the deputy chair on the Environment Committee. Of course, the report is about this document, and I am\u2014for anyone reading in Hansard\u2014waving about the first emissions reduction plan: Te hau m\u0101rohi ki anamata\u2014Towards a productive, sustainable and inclusive economy. Of course, the emissions reduction plan is a requirement of the Climate Change Response Act, and that Act requires us to be at zero carbon by 2050\u2014and I acknowledge the previous National speaker, Todd Muller, and his involvement in that legislation\u2014and, of course, we want to reduce biogenic methane by 24 to 47 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s some terms that come up in this report that are used quite often, we\u2019ve heard ERP\u2014emissions reduction plan\u2014and that is in implementing the budgets. The legislation requires the Environment Committee to examine those budgets, and we decided as a committee to the budgets\u2014that\u2019s just a couple of numbers\u2014that we actually want to look at the plan, and that is what we did. This plan is different from the NDC\u2014which is the nationally determined contribution\u2014it\u2019s a different measure and does involve offshore mitigation, which this plan does not. Other terms that come up are: the CERF\u2014the Climate Emergency Response Fund\u2014so that was $2.9 billion in this budget; and then there\u2019s GHG\u2014greenhouse gases emissions. In New Zealand, we\u2019ve got carbon, that\u2019s about 44 percent; nitrous oxide, 11 percent; then we\u2019ve got both methane from gas and biogenic methane, and they\u2019re quite different things, that\u2019s another about 44 percent; and then there\u2019s fluoridated gas as well at around 2 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re trying to reduce all of that. It\u2019s important also to think about what is net and what is gross. Again, I acknowledge and was very happy to hear Todd Muller speak about the importance of reducing gross emissions and that, of course, we can\u2019t just rely on the emissions trading scheme (ETS). Because the ETS is all about offsetting the pollution that you are doing when it comes to carbon, not biogenic methane\u2014that is not in the ETS\u2014we really want to focus on these gross emissions and how do we reduce our carbon emissions. Those are through a whole lot of complementary provisions. That is really the focus of both the ERP and the committee\u2019s report back, although both the ERP and the committee\u2019s report back do have sections on that pricing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI do, very quickly, want to thank the help that we had from Matthew Cowie and Andrew McMillian, also our officials, and the clerks, as well as our advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIn the ERP, there\u2019s 300 actions and these are all at different stages. Some of them are to investigate different things, like a circular economy, and some of them are projects which have already had budget bids. So there\u2019s a whole lot of different information sitting behind them. There is 16 different agencies involved in producing it, and now we have a new Climate Change Chief Executives Board, which covers six ministries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo why do we have the ERP? It\u2019s because we need to reduce our emissions desperately, and, as I said, the ETS is important but we can\u2019t have it alone. And because that ETS is about new trees, the sequestration that do\u2014and we heard recently, from the Leader of the Opposition, that we can just count what oceans have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286bd5bde07dd4c41b7c643070f9e60e5\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014seaweed and oceans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eecbda526af845908d71fbdc02cab9c6\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, the oceans already exist, so it\u2019s important, when are talking about this, we\u2019re talking about new things. I hear the member opposite say that would be seaweeds and oceans. That is right that this\u2014those new ways to sequester\u2014is important for us to learn about and to put into our policies, but we can\u2019t just say that something that\u2019s already existing, that\u2019s out there, that\u2019s the way to deal with our emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo what are all these emissions\u2014and I\u2019ve spent too much time. I do have pages, here, of things to talk about in terms of energy, transport, waste\u2014my colleague Angie Warren-Clark hears a lot about that\u2014building, and lessons that we can learn. So I\u2019ll just, very quickly, say that it\u2019s important, when we\u2019re thinking about energy, that we remember that electricity is not all of our energy. We have electricity, most of which is renewable, but we\u2019ve got a whole lot of other energy as well, in terms of fossil fuel and gas, and we want to make as much of that as possible renewable from electricity. So that\u2019s a target of 50 percent total final energy renewable by 2035. Mr Speaker, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022451c7da411fc45eba3bb5e558e9859b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022451c7da411fc45eba3bb5e558e9859b7\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I\u2019d like to start by thanking all those submitters that took their time to come to the Environment Committee and help us with that process. We had a wide range of submitters who really helped inform our decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere is a close relationship between emissions reductions and the increasing life expectancy\u2014they actually correlate perfectly. The graphs, those curves, they match exactly. So it behoves us to be very careful when we lower emissions, because that will have an impact on life expectancy\u2014a direct impact, there\u2019s no doubt about that. So that doesn\u2019t mean we can\u2019t do it; we can, but we have to be careful. And the National Party supports net zero by 2050 and we support the emissions budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EHowever, we have some serious issues with the emissions reduction plan. Now, while the Government talks a big game on carbon emissions and climate change, actually emissions are up under this Government. Even despite a lockdown\u2014two serious lockdowns\u2014emissions are up under this Government. There\u2019s a lot more to this than talking a big game. This is a really important issue that we are grappling with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI fear there\u2019s too much focus, actually, on gross emissions. I think that\u2019s a really important thing to focus on, but it is net zero, not gross zero, and, unfortunately, I think a number of the policies seem to be more gross-focused than net. We have heard a little bit about the emissions trading scheme today and, actually, I became quite convinced throughout the process on the select committee that the Government members do not understand the emissions trading scheme. They certainly don\u2019t understand the waterbed effect, which I think the ACT member Simon Court alluded to. As emissions are taken down by things like those pet projects that they have, it simply makes it cheaper for emitters elsewhere in the economy because the number of certificates are fixed. If they want to lower emissions more quickly, they reduce the number of emissions certificates\u2014it\u2019s a very simple marker and it works really well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe reason I think we have to be careful about how we approach this is the technologies that will allow us to get to net zero more easily are still being developed as we speak. I\u2019m a Tesla owner, and I\u2019ll tell you now, I have to drive that Tesla for 100,000 kilometres before the lifetime emissions of that are less than a diesel equivalent, so buying a Tesla doesn\u2019t save the planet. I think it\u2019s great technology\u2014that\u2019s why I bought it. Incidentally, for your information, I did not get a discount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57abe872faa48179d899f673543f365\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e851ce72fb6843398d696342c365e7e3\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Because it didn\u2019t qualify. Our biggest issue is industrial heat, as was alluded to earlier, and that is point-source emissions of carbon dioxide. And yet, you would think this Government would have a whole lot of regulatory and legal framework for carbon capture and storage. However, they don\u2019t\u2014they do not. However, there is one bill in the members\u2019 ballot that is addressing it; it should be the Government doing it, but I\u2019ve got a bill in the ballot that actually addresses carbon capture and storage regulatory gaps. It should be done by the Government\u2014that\u2019s a great way to lower emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund is a $600 million\u2014it\u2019s more than that, actually\u2014vanity project by the Minister of Energy and Resources. And what we found when we looked at additionality, we uncovered\u2014well, actually, the New Zealand Initiative uncovered\u2014a report that the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority had commissioned from Concept Consulting which found out, actually, there was no additionality. The companies that received the funding would have spent the money anyway, but they took it for free\u2014and why wouldn\u2019t they? I\u2019ve got nothing against the Heineken family. They\u2019ve got plenty of money; they could have paid for their own electrode boiler. They didn\u2019t need the taxpayer to fund it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe can get there in much better ways. The \u201Creverse Robin Hood tax\u201D, as my colleague referred to it earlier in the day, is absolutely something that we should be getting rid of. We don\u2019t need that. People will buy cars that are more efficient for the right reasons, rather than taking money off people that have no choice, that can\u2019t have an electric alternative. And now, of course, to beat it all, we had the biofuels mandate, which is another vanity project that we simply don\u2019t think is necessary. If people want to use biofuels, by all means, do, but Governments shouldn\u2019t be mandating it. Unfortunately, this is a very disappointing emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022c709fc696f23495981e95710f090c31b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c709fc696f23495981e95710f090c31b\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m proud, on behalf of the Government members of the Environment Committee, to be standing and taking a call on this. Can I just first of all start my contribution by noting some of the debate that\u2019s gone on in this House. I\u2019ve got to say I\u2019m feeling a little bit despondent\u2014despondent because, actually, to be able to tackle the ravages of climate change, what New Zealanders want us to do as a House is to actually work together on this. And it was something that we did work together on. When we put the zero carbon Act through this House, we said that we\u2019d work together on it. And the second that it comes to actually implementing one of the first stages of that, which is this emissions reduction plan and the associated budget that goes with it, we all seem to be reverting to tribalism politics\u2014the tribalism politics that has the Opposition opposing for opposition\u2019s sake, and the Opposition criticising everything that the Government\u2019s doing because that\u2019s their job as the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EIt makes me despondent. It makes me a little bit disappointed, because there are people around this country\u2014our future generation of New Zealanders\u2014that expect more from us in this House. They expect that we\u2019re going to be able to work together to be able to solve\u2014as our chair of the Environment Committee said earlier\u2014one of the biggest challenges that we\u2019ll ever face in our time. But it\u2019s not us\u2014the ones that are sitting in this House\u2014that will actually be responsible for it; it\u2019ll actually be the future generations. It\u2019s our children. It\u2019s our children\u2019s children. Back home, we\u2019ve got a saying that with everything that we do in our iwi, we should make more mokopuna decisions, decisions on behalf of our grandchildren, not just for us\u2014that\u2019s not the long-term approach that we should be taking. We should be making more mokopuna decisions, and it\u2019s disappointing to hear that, in the House, we\u2019ve reverted back to political tribalism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThat said, I want to talk to the submitters that came to our committee and submitted\u2014especially to our M\u0101ori submitters, because there weren\u2019t actually that many, and there\u2019s something to be said in that, too. There\u2019s something to be said in the fact that maybe there\u2019s a big part of the M\u0101ori community out there that feels as though the problem\u2019s too big. They feel as though climate change is way too big for our small little hap\u016B and marae communities to be able to deal with. So I want to take the time to acknowledge the M\u0101ori submitters\u2014the land trusts, the incorporations, and the wh\u0101nau trust\u2014that came forward and submitted into this bill. And I want to note that, in chapter 2 of the emissions reduction plan, there\u2019s a real focus on empowering M\u0101ori to be able to cope with, and respond to, the effects of climate change, because it\u2019s our M\u0101ori communities that really feel it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EBack home in Rotorua, we\u2019ve got a Te Arawa climate change action group. It\u2019s a bunch of people that are really passionate about making sure that we have M\u0101ori responses to this as well, and that it\u2019s not just the big corporations and Government actions that sit up the top but, actually, small M\u0101ori communities that are impacted by climate change. If you drive around the lakes between Rotoiti and Whakat\u0101ne, you\u2019ll see that it\u2019s a very thin piece of road and there\u2019s road slips all the time. With the increase in rainfall that we\u2019re having\u2014that we\u2019re seeing\u2014what they\u2019re noticing is that they\u2019re becoming more and more disconnected from their communities, and they understand inherently that it\u2019s an environmental problem and it\u2019s climate change. So they\u2019re calling for more transparency on what the M\u0101ori climate platform looks like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Minister for Climate Change for setting up the ministerial advisory committee with M\u0101ori members so that we can really amplify the voices of our M\u0101ori communities around the country. I want to congratulate, from Te Arawa, Lani Kereopa, who\u2019s been put on to that committee to be able to help solve some of these problems. We need a M\u0101ori climate change platform to be able to hear those voices, to be able to get Te Tiriti o Waitangi principles embedded into this as we step forward. We need to be able to make sure that Te Ao M\u0101ori is represented in the emissions reduction plans and the budgets and that, actually, we do take a step back from the tribal politics here by listening to the voices of those communities by funding by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori solutions as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWe know that some of our land trusts and incorporations are big on sheep and beef farming. That has an effect too. So I look forward to hearing those voices continually, not just through this plan and this report that we\u2019ve gone and published but ongoing. We need to keep hearing those voices. Otherwise, we may just be listening to the tribally political voices that dominate in this House. And I think that we owe it more to our grandchildren to not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u002249764e72a43445139777e91deda04c60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249764e72a43445139777e91deda04c60\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E To a degree, I do agree with T\u0101mati Coffey, in that I think a lot of the essence of what we\u2019re debating here today has been lost. In actual fact, we are here today to debate the Environment Committee\u2019s report on the emissions budgets that were published in this year and, of course, the emissions reduction plan. All of that has had a genesis in the signing, that the National Party did, of the Paris Agreement to limit global warming to below 2 degrees Celsius; that is where this has begun in more modern memory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe do acknowledge and thank the members of the Environment Committee, and, of course, all the officials for the time and effort that they\u2019ve put into producing this report. It is a very good report, and I will get to that shortly. It should be noted that the Environment Committee often works very closely and hears inquiries with the Primary Production Committee, on which I sit. The reason we do that is because, I think, both committees recognise the very deep, interlinked, and interwoven body of work that the two committees have together, and we do appreciate and acknowledge that and those submitters that do come before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI think it would be fair to say that, in this report, it does identify some themes that are at the very core of the National Party position, and that is that we do support these targets; we signed up to them, and so I don\u2019t like to hear accusations of being tribal in politics when, actually, this is the result of work that the National Government started. We support the targets, but it\u2019s the plan that we question. Todd Muller very eloquently suggested before that we will not see this country bankrupted in pursuit of those plans. I\u2019d go a step further and say, we\u2019re not going to see this country bankrupted in pursuit of one of the Prime Minister\u2019s nuclear-free moments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe fundamental problem\u2014and we do agree that the emissions trading scheme is the tool that will do the heavy lifting for emissions reductions in this country, but within the emissions reduction plan, we feel that it\u2019s going to threaten enormous cost for little or no emissions reduction. That is what we can and must see: the emissions reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThere has been so much hyperbole around various sectors within New Zealand. There has been such a blame game that has been going on and on and on for a number of years and, I would say, particularly targeting the agricultural sector. It was explained to me many years ago by a former National Minister for the Environment that the reason the agriculture emissions profile appears as high as it does is because, thankfully, we have an incredibly high amount of renewable energy generated. Were we to be generating energy heavily reliant on coal, then that would skew the two different profiles. So I do contest the blame game that\u2019s been going on towards the agricultural industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI note that there has actually been some irony in the Prime Minister going to New York to launch carbon-zero beef and, within 10 days, she\u2019s back in New Zealand with the Government announcing its counterproposal to the He Waka Eke Noa emissions reduction plan. So, in one breath, she\u2019s saying, \u201CWe can produce carbon-zero beef\u201D; in the next, she\u2019s saying, \u201CWell, we\u2019re going to tax you, guys, because you\u2019re not doing a good enough job.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about contradictions of statement, I refer back to David Parker\u2019s comment about \u201Ca very gentle price signal\u201D\u2014I quote, \u201Ca very gentle price signal.\u201D By the Government\u2019s own numbers, that \u201Cvery gentle price signal\u201D is going to put 20 percent of sheep and beef farms out of business\u20145 percent of dairy farms. I don\u2019t know in what world we would call that a \u201Cvery gentle price signal.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is not just the emissions reduction and mitigations that we need to focus on; it\u2019s investment into technology. Technology and science will find our solutions to our climate change commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aeee28fcbd9c476ab840950f1bcc4d54\u0022\u003ESecurity Information in Proceedings Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aeee28fcbd9c476ab840950f1bcc4d54\u0022\u003ESecurity Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220926af5301f744ccaa2af165c0fdb7a1\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00222fdde2a9216c4a40b3a60db9300ba986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fdde2a9216c4a40b3a60db9300ba986\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Security Information in Proceedings Bill and the Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eaffa9c31e24fd2b299dd62ff1c0217\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228762059eefc84cdd834e4b7270cb249f\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Security Information in Proceedings Bill and the Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill be now read a third time. I will refer to both bills as one throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI am pleased to speak to the third reading of this bill, which will create a more workable and coherent approach to the use of national security information in court proceedings and administrative decisions. The issues covered by this bill touch on important constitutional matters, such as the fundamental rights of people to open justice and a fair trial, the respective roles of the judiciary and the executive, protecting national security, and principles of open government and democratic accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill implements the majority of the recommendations made by the Law Commission in 2015, regarding how national security information is treated in the courts and in administrative decision-making. The question at the heart of the Law Commission\u2019s review was what should happen when information is relevant to legal proceedings but disclosing it may prejudice national security. The Law Commission found a number of inconsistencies and gaps in the current law; the current law does not provide enough assurance that national security information can be adequately protected if it needs to be used in court proceedings. This creates domestic and international risks for New Zealand in terms of safety, security, and international relations. The lack of a clear process for protecting security information in court could lead to the Crown deciding not to bring proceedings, or to settle a claim against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe current law can also disadvantage affected people who may not know the reason for a decision against them. The lack of full disclosure puts the affected individual at a considerable disadvantage if they want to challenge the executive\u2019s actions or decisions. The Law Commission recommended legislation to clear up inconsistency in the law and give all parties a clear process that protects national security information while maintaining fairness and natural justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI note that the bill is consistent with existing legislation in comparable jurisdictions overseas, including Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom. I\u2019d like to briefly highlight some of the key aspects of the bill. Firstly, the bill will enable the court to order a closed court preliminary hearing when dealing with national security information in civil cases. It will be for the courts to decide how to manage national security information and, importantly, whether the risks of disclosing the information are sufficiently serious to justify withholding it. The bill will enable closed court substantive hearings, but only where the risks of disclosing the national security information justify this departure from ordinary, open processes. A closed preliminary hearing would take place in a secure court facility, and with only security-cleared personnel and the judge present\u2014the court would be closed to the public, and, of course, to the media. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe non-Crown Party will not be present, but safeguards in the bill will mitigate this disadvantage. One of the safeguards is that the non-Crown party\u2019s interest will be represented in the closed court by a special advocate. Special advocates are highly experienced, security-cleared lawyers who will act in the interests of the person who is not allowed to see the national security information that is alleged to be relevant in their case. Other safeguards are that the special advocate and the judge would have access to the national security information. The judge would also be able to direct that a summary of the information is prepared for the affected person, so that they can instruct the special advocate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI should stress, though, that the closed court processes will not be available in a substantive criminal trial. The bill retains the fundamental position that a defendant would always be present during a criminal trial; however, the bill does enable a new pre-trial process to enable national security information to be used and protected at the criminal trial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill will also introduce consistent procedural requirements into a number of Acts that currently allow classified security information to be taken into account by decision makers. These Acts include the Passports Act, the Overseas Investment Act, the Terrorism Suppression Act, and the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act 2013. The bill provides that if an individual would usually be entitled to receive information taken into account in a decision that affects their rights but is not provided with the information due to security concerns, the individual should be entitled to receive, instead, a summary of the information. The summary serves the purpose of providing the affected person with straightforward and prompt access to the information about why the decision was made. The bill also better integrates the existing oversight powers of the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security into the framework for administrative decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill will help to maintain the public\u2019s confidence in the operation and integrity of the justice system by providing a clear approach to protecting national security information, while maintaining principles of fairness and natural justice. I would like to acknowledge Ginny Andersen\u2014the chair of the Justice Committee\u2014and the Justice Committee members for their consideration of the bill. I also want to acknowledge the officials that provided diligent advice, to both the Justice Committee and, indeed, to myself. I acknowledge and thank all parties across this House for their constructive participation in the consideration of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI am confident that this bill strikes the right balance between the need to protect security information and the need to ensure that the fundamental principles of justice are not unjustifiably limited. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00226496ace4bbbe4a1e9778e23d7294ec1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226496ace4bbbe4a1e9778e23d7294ec1d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002242cf4243b9d749dd8edd654687eb9018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242cf4243b9d749dd8edd654687eb9018\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister of Justice as well. I pick up where she left off by acknowledging the constructive spirit in which the legislation has proceeded at various stages through the House, including at the select committee stage. If there are two areas of public policy that shouldn\u2019t be the subject unnecessarily of partisan debate or interest because enduring solutions are needed, certainty is needed, and to give confidence to those affected by the decisions, I would say it would be national security and it would be the operation of courts and other mechanisms of justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThis bill sits at the intersection of those, and so there was no question on National\u2019s side that when we saw this legislation was being introduced that if we agreed with the way it fulfilled its aims, then we would be happy to support it. Indeed I can confirm that is still the case. Nothing has changed in that regard. We will continue to support this bill, and, of course, along the way, as one would expect, we have been careful to consider the way that it will seek to achieve its aims. There\u2019s a couple of comments that I may or may not have a chance to make about particular aspects that we were interested in, both at select committee and also a little bit in the committee of the whole House stage. We had a good discussion with the Minister, she and I, and a couple of others too besides, who were able to just really tease out some of the aspects of how this system will work, focusing particularly on the importance of that role of special advocate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWithout getting back into those weeds too much then, I\u2019m quite keen just to acknowledge some of the basis of our discussion and conclusions that we\u2019ve come to together across the parties, genuinely, in discussing the bill. I\u2019m not ordinarily a member of the Justice Committee but I made sure to attend as much as possible of its consideration of the bill. We had good discussions. I see Vanushi Walters is in the House. I know that she was part of those discussions with her characteristic diligence and application of intelligence and a particular interest in the human rights realm to these questions. So it was heartening, I think I can say genuinely, that the people of New Zealand can gain as much comfort as is possible to hear from a politician saying \u201Ctrust me\u201D\u2014\u201Ctrust us\u201D would probably be a better characterisation. I think, genuinely, we\u2019ve made an effort to balance these things. I will say, though, because I think it\u2019s always fair to acknowledge this is not a perfect institution, we are not perfect beings. If it is that the balance has not been struck correctly\u2014or rightly, fairly\u2014in any of these particular parts of how the system works, then we should commit to have a look at those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s probably worth making that acknowledgment because these are really serious and important questions\u2014important questions because they touch on very fundamental rights; rights of individuals, yes, but rights of other individuals and rights of the society as a whole, overall. And it was balancing various tensions, such as the rights of the individual versus those of the greater number\u2014perhaps one could even say the greater good, the common good\u2014and one should always be nervous in throwing individual rights to the wolves when it comes to ensuring community safety as a whole. But, nevertheless, these are legitimate questions to ask how these things can be resolved to the maximum extent possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo we also considered the relative weight of international obligations and our own interests as New Zealanders in the context of our international partnerships versus the way that we would conduct our own affairs in this country\u2014ordinarily within courtrooms, for example\u2014and how those things should interact. The Minister was right to note in her remarks that this legislation has an underlying theme of consistency with the equivalent regimes of our Five Eyes partners, and, actually, that\u2019s perfectly appropriate. We need to give comfort to those who want to help us, even as they seek our help, that they can do so with assurance that people who provide information to them in insecure settings aren\u2019t unduly going to be jeopardised by a cavalier approach to how that information is handled and its origin to be known and so forth. So these, again, are the tensions that we navigated in considering the particular provisions of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe thought about two rights under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The Minister has noted in passing the right to be present at one\u2019s own trial, and that, of course, is a very specific aspect of the \u201CMinimum standards of criminal procedure\u201D section within the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. So the balance that was struck, the compromise, if you will, was that a person would have the ability to participate in the trial fully, but, of course, allowing a system whereby a pre-trial hearing to determine the appropriateness of certain information and evidence being brought forward fully could also take place. So, again, a compromise but in the name of ensuring, as much as possible, that a person who has been affected by defending themselves in charges on court versus the desire to keep information closely held as much as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo another way that the tension was navigated was by allowing some information in the form of a summary, albeit not the complete suite of information that is held about a person in their activities, or alleged activities, and so, again, we can see the desire to avoid disadvantaging a person as much as possible. This is the flavour of the legislative statement that has been brought forward, and it\u2019s right to acknowledge those different ways of looking at the world and the different kinds of things that we should be taking into account as responsible legislators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA couple of other comments on the general themes and then briefly on special advocates\u2014the civil and criminal jurisdictions are both covered within this bill. They are covered separately, and that\u2019s appropriate because we have criminal courts and we have civil courts and different sets of procedure apply to each. But, of course, it\u2019s possible that someone will be facing a civil matter where their conduct is relevant in the context of something that is being said that they have done of a nature that might have a security dimension. I\u2019m trying to use reasonably sort of neutral language, which is possibly not as helpful as using specific examples, but I\u2019m really trying to avoid getting down a rabbit hole of that. But, of course, there are also matters that are, by their nature, very much of a criminal kind of characteristic, as alleged, of course\u2014and until such time as is proven, everyone is innocent until proven guilty\u2014but, nevertheless, where alleged criminal offending would have a direct connection with alleged or, indeed, any proven terrorist activities or espionage or the like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, with my remaining time, just to touch a bit on that role of special advocate. We talked at the committee of the whole House stage about how that person would be called on to do their job. Lawyers get a pretty bad rap from time to time, and I\u2019m not here to defend former colleagues of that profession, except to say that there is a great reliance that people who are in a vulnerable situation, who have been charged with an offence\u2014they have that vulnerability and they rely to a huge extent on their legal representative to represent their best interests. That\u2019s why the ethical obligations on lawyers, contrary to popular belief, are so important. So it\u2019s important that\u2014all the more so in this regime, whereby a person might not have access to all the information themselves, but their special advocate, effectively, acting in the way of an ordinary lawyer but with even greater powers and an even greater disparity of knowledge and information. That\u2019s such an important choice. Now, the person who would be chosen to be a special advocate would be from a panel. So there\u2019s not free range for a person to engage any lawyer that they would wish, but they would have at least some choice. And that was a point, again, that was brought out in the committee of the whole House stage. So I think that\u2019s helpful as far as it goes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOf course, there\u2019s a challenge of ensuring we have enough well-qualified, expert, experienced lawyers practising in this field to make themselves available. But, of course, that\u2019s a challenge across the whole legal profession at the moment, the whole justice system, and it\u2019s not unique to this bill. So we don\u2019t raise that as a serious objection to the operation of the regime, certainly not to the extent that we would consider not supporting that bill on that basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo with all those thoughts, and reiterating the points we\u2019ve made previously, we support the aim of the bill to have a systematic, coherent approach to enabling matters to be heard as fairly and openly as possible in the circumstances. So we join the Government in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225058bbf35c0949d0ac901b6b95e97d54\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, may I just remind members to put their phones into silent mode. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002212283dc019a342528970c41081a7273b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212283dc019a342528970c41081a7273b\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, another sterling piece of legislation from the Minister of Justice. It\u2019s great to see so many good pieces of legislation coming from her watch and, also, being able to be a part of that on the Justice Committee. These bills had the difficult task of balancing the protection of our national security interests against the fundamental principles of justice, and I\u2019d just like to take a moment to acknowledge that there were a number of sharp minds from both sides of this House on the committee, who worked really well to ask the right questions of those officials. Vanushi Walters was fantastic in being able to really look at those details. Chris Penk, who has just spoken, was also really engaged, and I do remember Joseph Mooney subbing on to that committee as well and making some really good contributions. It\u2019s nice that, at times like these, when we are discussing critical issues like national security and the fundamental principles of justice, we can have a really good discussion from right across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThese bills implement the majority of the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations from back in 2015, when they took a look at how security information is treated in our courts and in administrative decision-making. The question at the heart of that inquiry was what should happen when information is relevant to legal proceedings but disclosing it might also prejudice national security. The Law Commission made a number of observations about current inconsistencies or gaps in the current law. First, the current law does not provide enough assurance that national security information can be adequately protected if it needs to be used in court proceedings. This creates a security risk for New Zealand. Also, New Zealand\u2019s law can have a disadvantage to those people who may not know the reasons for the decision against them. So, at that point, there are principles of natural justice at stake. The Law Commission recommended legislation to clear up inconsistency in the law and to give all parties a clear process that protects national security information while also maintaining fairness and natural justice. We believe that the bills achieve these objectives, and it is good to see these bills reach their third and final reading after the Law Commission first undertook that work seven years ago. They also form part of a suite of measures designed to strengthen the end-to-end justice system to prevent and respond appropriately to terrorism and the supports of the Government\u2019s response to the royal commission of inquiry into the March 15 mosque attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe reason why we have put these bills forward and why we support them so strongly is that they put in place a coherent and consistent regime for dealing with national security information and proceedings, giving clarity and certainty to the use of such information, so that we have a clear map going forward for current situations that may arise. Currently, there is a lack of assurance that national security information can be adequately protected if it needs to be used in court proceedings. Also, the current law may disadvantage, as I\u2019ve already mentioned, those non-Crown parties who may not have that information available to them, for a decision against them, and they may not, in fact, be in a position to challenge the actions or decisions of the Crown, and that\u2019s not fair. These bills provide a clear framework for dealing with national security information in both criminal and civil proceedings. The bills will do three main things: provide greater assurance to the Crown that national security information can be used in court proceedings whilst still remaining protected if it needs to be so; secondly, it will standardise and clarify protections for non-Crown parties; and, thirdly, it will ensure clear, consistent processes are followed in a way that addresses natural justice requirements as far as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThese are good bills. We\u2019ve worked hard to make sure they\u2019re returned in good shape. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the work of the Minister of Justice, all the committee members, and also those officials that worked on these bills. I commend them to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022edd9a5daf8ed4b1eb97fe203f78dcaba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edd9a5daf8ed4b1eb97fe203f78dcaba\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. I think it is worth stating again, as many others have, that when it comes to matters of national security a bipartisan position is the most desirable place for this House to end up. And while this legislation, as others have explained, is kind of at the junction between those matters that are strictly of national security and natural justice, then I think that the work that\u2019s been done by the select committee is particularly useful and helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission\u2019s report in 2015 of course is seven years ago, so a lot has happened in that time. Seven years ago I don\u2019t think the country was quite as aware of the need for there to be strong national security provisions in our law as they would be now. So if we think of the things that have happened, there is of course the obvious tragedy that occurred with the violent terrorist activity at the mosque in Christchurch. You would have seen the stabbing that occurred by someone who was on a watch-list in Auckland. These are matters that have come in to the public realm. There are other matters that as yet have not, but it would be naive for anyone to think that New Zealand is immune from some of the nefarious activity that does threaten national security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENational security is also a matter of making sure that we are in line with other democracies who share the values that we do. So there is a range of things that we need to be on guard for, where there could be court activity at a future time, not the least of which would be the issues around radicalisation of people to particular awful causes or, in fact, cyber-attack, which New Zealand is certainly not immune to. And if there were to be prosecutions coming from that, those prosecutions levelled at individuals, then there is that tension between the rights of someone who is coming before the court to have a fair hearing\u2014even though they might be engaged in activities on behalf of people who would have absolutely no regard for that particular concept of justice\u2014and, of course, the desire to protect national security. So the test becomes quite a simple one, and that is, can the disclosure of information that may be necessary in a prosecution be provided in a way that ensures that national security is not compromised? And it\u2019s a difficult thing to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the Minister expressed very well the closed court provisions and processes that would allow someone to have a representative in a closed court situation without being present themselves. The position was, I think, further elucidated by the two following speeches from Mr Penk and Ms Andersen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just make a reference here, if I could, to the royal commission on the response to the terrorist attack in Christchurch and the establishment of a group called K\u0101puia who are to advise the Government on matters that relate to the some 40-odd recommendations that have come out of that royal commission. Many of those recommendations relate to national security provisions, relate to the organisations who are charged by this House and by the country to look after those particular aspects of our life. I think when it comes to the proposals that are there, having a group of people who have a representative role across the community to look at it is a good thing, but I think that the compromise has to be that there will always be a judgment necessary about what people in peaceful times might decide is reasonable and what people would expect at times of heightened activity or action to be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t want to mention the terrorist\u2019s name, but we have the perpetrator of that Christchurch tragedy currently considering whether or not he should appeal the sentence that has been put in front of him. Quite clearly in that case, there would be matters of national security that would come up in a case like this, and so having a provision in the law that means that the greater protection for the widest community in the consideration of the appeal is extremely important. So the appeal will probably not be denied, even though it seems ridiculous to most of us, but the protection of any information that might mitigate against any lightening of sentence through that appeal clearly would go through a process similar to that being outlined here today and provided in these bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessary to say too much more beyond saying that bringing this provision in New Zealand in line with our like-minded partners in other countries is extremely useful in a world that we have seen, even in the last few days, is extremely volatile, where no one is particularly isolated from some of the evil intentions of other countries\u2014then having cooperations and basis for cooperation among those like-minded countries is extremely important. So with those comments, I commend the bills to their third readings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf1da4f38b5c4b6fa790ceb993b854d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf1da4f38b5c4b6fa790ceb993b854d2\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I might start, just in the spirit of the cross-party collegiality that we\u2019re seeing here in the House today\u2014occasionally, on a Thursday, I\u2019ll review Hansard committee stage readings, especially when I need to consider the contribution I\u2019d like to make at third reading. As I read through the Hansard committee stages this week, not just on this bill but on others as well, the same name kept popping up, so I\u2019m returning the compliment here to Chris Penk, who was on his feet, literally, for much of this week during committee stage and posed many thoughtful questions in relation to this bill as well, to the Minister of Justice, which she responded to in full. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI do think that that level of scrutiny that happened through committee stage was also something that featured at select committee stage, and I do see colleagues Joseph Mooney and Nicole McKee, as well, in the House, both of whom contributed, along with my Labour colleagues, in really robustly examining where we ought to sit. This isn\u2019t an easy area to make law in, but I do think the collegiality made a difference, to the point at which we engaged in discussion over breaks, as well, about the balance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe focus for me, in terms of the discussion at the Justice Committee, was around clause 12(3)\u2014so clause 12(1) and 12(2) of the Security Information in Proceedings Bill provide that the Crown must give the authorised court and special adviser access to security information. The question the select committee grappled with around clause 12(3) was whether it created a new power to withhold information, or a new threshold whereby information could be withheld. The committee decided unanimously between us that we didn\u2019t want a new power or threshold to be created, and we were very clear in proposing language to clarify that in the amended bill that\u2019s now before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo, again, I don\u2019t think that this is an easy area of law to grapple with. I think the security and intelligence space is somewhat of a perennial issue, where Governments must frequently assess what the security threats are and whether we have the balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo, lastly, I would just like to acknowledge the Green Party position at second reading on this bill, and perhaps pre-empting where you might sit next. But I do think you have raised important issues; my sense is that we did land at the appropriate balance for the time we\u2019re in now, and we need to continue assessing whether we have that balance correct. So, with that all being said, I commend the Minister, again, for bringing this piece of legislation to the House, the select committee across party lines for their robust work, and these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53df9cbebc54d5a81324e135f08f316\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53df9cbebc54d5a81324e135f08f316\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Greens. I don\u2019t sit on the Justice Committee, and I am speaking on behalf of our justice spokesperson, Golriz Ghahraman, who is unable to be with us at this particular time. I have been dipping in and out of this one. I realise, I think, when this was first read in the House was during one of the lockdown periods, so I was one of the MPs that was trying to follow it at that particular time while our Auckland-based MPs were in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the contributions around the House. We are in really difficult times, really new times, really turbulent times, particularly within the global sphere as well. And I was just reflecting on when this report came out in 2015\u2014the Law Commission report\u2014and I don\u2019t think I actually really understood what misinformation and disinformation were as well. And the way that the world is operating in terms of attacks moving towards cyber-attacks and so forth, this is indeed becoming a particular field where it is very, very difficult to figure out where the balance lies\u2014where the balance lies in terms of the protection of national security and what that means for the individual, particularly when those individuals are being influenced by nefarious outside sources, and in some cases being pushed because of amplification from algorithms and so on and so forth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI do want to support what other colleagues have said around the House around centring our Muslim wh\u0101nau down in Christchurch. It\u2019s important to keep those families who\u2019ve been deeply impacted by terrorist attacks at the forefront of what we do as well, but also being mindful in the history in the lead up to that that a lot of what happened in terms of security surveillance that was done on those actual communities. So agree totally with what the previous speaker, Vanushi Walters, said around making sure that we get the balance right. It\u2019s not easy and it\u2019s a very difficult thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe background of this legislation is that it regulates how national security information is used as evidence in court, and these rules will come into effect when the Government needs to prosecute someone for alleged criminal wrongdoing based on highly secure national security information or NSI that the Government cannot share within the public sphere. For example, the Government may receive information through the Five Eyes alliance which they are sworn to protect. And members around the House have talked about that and what that means. And I again would like to support what\u2019s been said about the Justice Committee about getting into the detail and the discussions that happened at the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWhen this came back to caucus, we did have some concerns. However, while most of the submissions raised concerns about the bill, they were supportive of the general need for legislative reform in this area\u2014that\u2019s true, that needs to happen. We\u2019re living in turbulent, volatile times, so making sure that we move with those times is incredibly, incredibly important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Law Society and the office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security both made substantive recommendations that the bill be pulled back in several areas, citing concerns that the bill did not offer enough protections for the non-Crown party to ensure a fair and just trial, even with special advocates and closed courts. In particular, that the definition of NSI was too wide, leaving those safeguards against the common problem of over-classification of information that is not actually sensitive; that there is no restriction protocol or test on when the executive can use an NSI certificate; that special advocates acting for the non-Crown party in closed courts are not mandatory; that the Crown has a general exemption providing access to NSI for the court or the special advocate, even though these persons will have full security clearance; the special advocate is only needed in closed court proceedings and there is no requirement for the advocate to attend open proceedings, though going between both is standard practice in comparable jurisdictions; that the Crown is to be notified of general communications between the special advocate and the non-Crown party and their lawyer. The Law Commission characterised this type of restriction as a tactical disadvantage for special advocates who are unable to communicate with the party they represent without disclosing the communication to the Crown party. And there was some conversation around the costs as well. Costs of this special advocate may fall on the non-Crown party, though this person is necessitated by the Crown\u2019s decision to issue an NSI certificate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESo for the Greens, there is still more to go on this journey. The devil is in the details and the details have not landed adequately for us at this time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022654c0f335ba147838347f67b24844b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654c0f335ba147838347f67b24844b1c\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand on behalf of the ACT Party to continue to support what is now two bills, the Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill and the Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI would like to start off by doing what every colleague across this House has done so far, which is to thank those on the Justice Committee for working so well together. For me, this was an area that I was not that familiar with and it was an area that I had to learn a lot in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnd I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank not only the officials but also our chair, Ginny Andersen, Vanushi Walters, Chris Penk as well, Simon O\u2019Connor when he came in, because they helped me to learn and understand the severity of what has been happening and what we can do together to try and fix it. I believe that this is a really good start, partly because this legislation is about restoring liberties to people and we are all about doing that in the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo protecting our national security interests is imperative. And how we do that, while we\u2019re still allowing for the flow of information, is really quite important. How we do that, while we ensure that there is still natural justice for a defendant, is also extremely important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThese bills have gone quite a long way towards addressing that. It will actually maintain integrity of the system that we have, and it allows open justice by using special advocates. This is a new thing that we have here\u2014is the special advocates, which allows a defendant to be able to have somebody who has been given security clearance to be able to access information that may be being used against that defendant. It means that that defendant will have all of that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis is important because right now, they\u2019re unable\u2014under present law\u2014to challenge the outcomes and they find it hard to challenge the outcomes because they don\u2019t know all of the information. So having a special advocate that can tell them what is relevant and what isn\u2019t is going to be important to ensure that we do have natural justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe courts being allowed to close through civil proceedings is also a new clause that we have, and it\u2019s important so that information on security can be addressed in the civil jurisdiction as well as the criminal. So having the ability to actually close the courts and civil proceedings so that information can be shared securely is important again for open and natural justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis also means that participants will not be excluded and that they do get to know the information that\u2019s being used against them. It addresses how the information will be handled so that we can get consistency in how it is disclosed, how it is discussed, and how it is used in proceedings. Because at the moment, the regime that is in place is not only ambiguous but it\u2019s uncertain and it certainly is inconsistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn a free and truly democratic society, we are in support of the bills that extend civil liberties for all. We believe that these bills allow fairness in that access to information that is used against a person. It can still be used, it can be known, and it can be heard, while still securing our national security information and interests. And in that regard, we do commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022337f3f6e92194d5fb858ee017a318114\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022337f3f6e92194d5fb858ee017a318114\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Security Information in Proceedings Bill and the Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAs someone who is not a lawyer, as someone who doesn\u2019t have any experience in the justice system, I\u2019m really pleased to hear in the House today how much effort went into getting this right. It\u2019s really, really important because those of us who aren\u2019t familiar with the system, we have to trust what\u2019s going on. It was great to hear that there was due diligence, due process, and that there was thoughtful and thorough work that went on in into getting this right. And it is wonderful to be in the House when we\u2019re hearing about members who are able to put what is best for our citizens at the heart of their work. It sounds like, from the experts across the House, that they have found the balance between security and justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI want to thank all of those who were involved: the officials, the Minister Hon Kiritapu Allan, and all of those on the Justice Committee who kept what was critically important at the heart of their work. It is heartening to be ending the week in such a manner, and it is because of this that I am happy to commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u002254e6f5cef0c14bb09a843dd749107dc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254e6f5cef0c14bb09a843dd749107dc5\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t sure if I was going to get a call, but here I am. So, look, it\u2019s a pleasure, actually, to rise and take a call\u2014and it\u2019s going to be, probably, a short call, given the time of day, and that it\u2019s the last day of the week in the House\u2014on the Security Information in Proceedings Bill. I did, actually, as it happened, and just by chance, in some respects, actually end up being on the Justice Committee for a short period of time in respect of this bill. And it was actually quite a useful experience, because there were quite a few challenging issues to address in this. This bill has been grappling with an issue that was identified by the Law Commission some years ago: that there needed to be a review and a reshaping of the law around this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe bills are aiming to protect the rights of non-Crown parties in proceedings involving security information while also allowing the Crown to have recourse to security information while defending itself in proceedings and ensuring a clear process for courts to follow. So there\u2019s a tension here between the Crown needing to ensure that it doesn\u2019t prejudice the entrusting of information of the Government of New Zealand on a basis of confidence by the Government of another country or any agency of such a Government or any international organisation, but also that it doesn\u2019t prejudice the maintenance of law, including the prevention, investigation, and detection of offences. It needs to balance that against the right of someone affected by either civil proceedings or criminal proceedings to be able to have access to the information being used against them in a proceeding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a tension there that\u2019s very difficult to draw\u2014one that the members of the select committee took very, very seriously. They examined in some detail the provisions in this piece of law\u2014as did the officials who were advising on this piece of law. On balance, I am confident that we have got it right, certainly for now; and if issues arise in the future, I\u2019m confident that this Parliament will look at those again. But I think, looking at the time available to me, I will say that I\u2019m in a position to be able to commend these bills to the House. With that, I think that will be the end of proceedings today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002256ca027cb1d44077a589e7010e60983c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256ca027cb1d44077a589e7010e60983c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 22 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221117421692bec3964cb7bbae2d52b652e588000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"