"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214dbf78eed9643559f1f78cd1a0324b2\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229fe5f934966e4ee9bf35d07ff9931e32\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c468e8b46e724412b3407848a9fac3f1\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff04db1400da4c0e8869c493de72e030\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224ba08e64bc0d4ab7893d8abf190ae8f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ba08e64bc0d4ab7893d8abf190ae8f1\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Deputy Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c847064822f4a8599d9da548f388b1e\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f9c726af9b848748a19eefad280c177\u0022\u003EIreland\u2014Oireachtas Ireland Parliamentary Friendship Group for New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225e1130f108234f03b7f6f257cf62fe28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e1130f108234f03b7f6f257cf62fe28\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would wish to welcome Senator Barry Ward and Senator Gerry Horkan, members of the Oireachtas Ireland Parliamentary Friendship Group for New Zealand, who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222108049326b74a7d99852b5c8a4cbe15\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8e77dae92c942f98cf825d7a52c5777\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5c8cc175ef442fbaa6263aa5d2f4f8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5c8cc175ef442fbaa6263aa5d2f4f8c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022b64899bfcde044f2ad229ebda095d46b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b64899bfcde044f2ad229ebda095d46b\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2021-22 annual reports for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDiversity Works New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EWorkSafe New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022-23 statement of performance expectations for WorkSafe New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7980c97e35443cf8b8e2e0791edefba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7980c97e35443cf8b8e2e0791edefba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. No select committee papers have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00223044c5c1524e46b9b6c2dfc1a72a678c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223044c5c1524e46b9b6c2dfc1a72a678c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Community Participation) Amendment Bill, introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224b44018147a94a0ea8c34d162309e72d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b44018147a94a0ea8c34d162309e72d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da531552cb6f42569962e2a54b8c051e\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fdf21a981ae746b689476f32261c580a\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5479e91ce0a47bc818028a495ce5032\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00221f300bb344144c119309c9cb70bd99b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f300bb344144c119309c9cb70bd99b2\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in all of her Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f78b4505ead94a959aa39a5d38514c99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f78b4505ead94a959aa39a5d38514c99\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a19d3752899741bd81cf5473e4a665af\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Are media reports correct that Minister Mahuta did not tell her or her Cabinet about the 60 percent entrenchment provision before it was voted on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022819efcc88be64908a2168300ff02bb7b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already been clear on this issue: caucus did not discuss this specific Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), because it had not been tabled. We had a general discussion on entrenchment, but, ultimately, I think, the most important thing is that we have said it was a mistake and, as a team, we have fixed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d636af15503464688ae7a217b12ade7\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: When she said she has no plans to remove Minister Mahuta \u201Cbased on anything that\u2019s happened here\u201D, does that mean as Prime Minister she is willing to tolerate one of her Ministers deliberately keeping her in the dark?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022729cfe43737d44928cb847912b74591d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member is implying that somehow I should have seen an SOP that had not yet been tabled, and also the point that I\u2019ve made here in this regard: there were 24 SOPs. I would not have an expectation that for every single bill that comes through this House, we would see every single SOP. And I imagine that the member himself may not have either. Again, the most important thing here is a mistake has been made and we have corrected it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7024ce2b034a14bf734dd9f5f9fbff\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that on 30 May, Cabinet \u201Cagreed that the bill should not entrench the privatisation provisions\u201D, and, if so, why is she tolerating a Minister going against the explicit instructions of her and her Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222252d58edced48e181d06848a1793cd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c274a4f083704bb38da421580316904d\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Doesn\u2019t the Cabinet Manual state, \u201COnce Cabinet makes a decision, Ministers must support it, regardless of their personal views \u2026\u201D, and why has she not taken any action over Minister Mahuta saying in this House, \u201CThere is a moral obligation of people who believe that privatisation should not occur to support that particular SOP.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238585d02a567409da5216652fa0dea1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is what the Cabinet Manual says. Yes, the member did continue to uphold the Cabinet decision. The member, actually, though, is asking a question about another party\u2019s SOP. Again, I come back to the principle point: Labour maintains its position that you should never sell these assets. It would be good if the National Party confirmed the same. We also confirmed a mistake was made, and we have fixed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa3b0d12f7ca46f48e3452e507fc21e2\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that Minister Mahuta has clearly breached the Cabinet Manual, and when will the Prime Minister finally show some leadership and sack her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287d1980fabf244b5a110fad8eeea4d96\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member has not. Secondly, leadership is fixing a problem when you see it. The member on the opposite side has never once given New Zealanders an explanation of what he would do to fix failing water infrastructure in this country. Saying you\u2019ll do nothing is not an option. This country cannot afford to no longer invest in water infrastructure. We have a solution. The member only has opposition and no ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fceca2af00374cc8a69928ad278f26db\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she allowing one of her Ministers to blatantly defy her by standing up in Parliament to speak in support of something Cabinet had collectively agreed not to support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202999630a3c340c8a4907ecbcff289b3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member continues to misrepresent the Minister. Secondly, as a party, we have always stood against the notion of privatisation. We have been absolutely clear on that. We have used every mechanism to make sure that we do not see the privatisation of those assets. The Minister has gone to great lengths to ensure it. What we\u2019ve come to is a question over whether or not a mechanism like entrenchment should be used for those purposes. Our view is it should be removed, but we still stand by keeping them in public ownership. Does the member?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788d723d1c324bf296d62c473e9a80c9\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Has she lost so much control over her Cabinet that she\u2019s now either unwilling or unable to remove a Minister who has openly defied her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580a3e6fa0624d58a39c35d17acb54a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has not defied Cabinet. The Minister has not broken the Cabinet Manual. Again, I accept the member hasn\u2019t been here very long, but it was an SOP from another party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002269a353dd7a9c46709d60b7bc09928b65\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3ec2b86350f4dc9bb72d4ce3e45e778\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3ec2b86350f4dc9bb72d4ce3e45e778\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022bace65e03bc340279b988563f8f62f1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bace65e03bc340279b988563f8f62f1a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The resilience of the economy has been reflected in the latest Crown accounts. For the four months to the end of October, the operating balance before gains and losses, (OBEGAL), recorded a deficit of $2.8 billion\u2014this is $274 million lower than forecast at Budget 2022 in May, and $5 billion lower than for the same period a year ago. Tax revenue also came in slightly below expectations. We know that 2023 is going to be a difficult year for the global economy and for New Zealand. We will not be immune to what happens overseas, with a period of high inflation to be followed by what is now forecast to be a shallow recession. Government actions to grow the economy and support New Zealanders mean we are well positioned to face these global challenges with a solid balance sheet, near-record low unemployment, more people in paid work, and wages increasing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb9331489ba460ea80de04914d48554\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What else did the report say about the impact of the economy on the Government\u2019s books?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53a682bece749138b31ad35c73b48b2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Net debt stood at 19.5 percent of GDP in these accounts, which was above forecast, mainly due to market conditions affecting the New Zealand super fund\u2019s financial portfolio. Using the old measure, net core Crown debt was below forecast, at 39.4 percent of GDP compared with projections of 40.4 percent. Our debt levels remain among the lowest in the OECD, and well below the Government\u2019s debt ceiling of 30 percent, ensuring we are well positioned to weather further economic shocks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1ca33b5c974cb087e12e875e768309\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022281281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254634b3702d1494bb5bb698f98da37cc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The situation and outlook for primary industries was released by the Ministry for Primary Industries and it shows that food and fibre exports are projected to reach a new record high of $55 billion in 2023\u2014$2.9 billion more than in June 2022. In addition, tourists and holidaymakers are returning in greater numbers and our immigration reset is working to attract the overseas workers we need to rebuild the economy. This will all go some significant way to help protect New Zealanders from the sharp edges of a global downturn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab549a98219949029eaad7ba0803a1a8\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c167201efc4c949eb457d7a27fb9f5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The credit rating agency Fitch has revised downwards its forecast for the global economy. Fitch is projecting global GDP to grow 1.4 percent in 2023, down from 1.7 percent in its September economic outlook. It has lowered its forecast for growth in both the US and China. New Zealand finds itself as well placed as any country in the world in a volatile and uncertain global environment. We will continue to take a balanced and responsible approach in managing our finances. We remain focused on prioritising our spending without adding to inflation pressures, and returning to surplus as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224888efab943544c190598244e6db8672\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8177e7ebf9c4e1fae97c493811fae46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8177e7ebf9c4e1fae97c493811fae46\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he confident that taxpayer money is being spent appropriately and delivering value for New Zealanders during a cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022473f3db0f0174138aad0499d06a210ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022473f3db0f0174138aad0499d06a210ad\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes\u2014in the context of a period of time when the COVID pandemic has disrupted the operations of all businesses and Governments. As signalled at Budget 2022, our spending decisions continue to focus on delivering value for money and maintaining funding for core public services. The economic environment in which we are operating has shifted since the period when Government spending increased during the COVID emergency to save lives and livelihoods. In our decisions at Budget 2022, the Government looked to strike the right balance between returning the level of Government spending following the COVID emergency to more normal levels, continuing to invest in public services and infrastructure, and supporting New Zealanders facing cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a803f9a0b42f4d12af82557afb2f5bdc\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Was it acceptable for the Minister of Transport to politicise transport funding decisions by asking Labour MPs to nominate transport projects in their electorates to receive taxpayer funding without doing the same for non-Labour electorates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff579ad299574428839b0bacc1319f6e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is incorrect in the assertion at the beginning of her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c35772970af04151940fde27e17bdcc5\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of other occasions when Ministers, acting in their ministerial capacity, have explicitly asked their caucus colleagues to bid for taxpayer dollars for projects in Labour-held electorates to the exclusion of the rest of the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8ea77c088534d56bce4c61f9ac2ed36\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to that member\u2019s question, I\u2019m certainly aware of the former Minister of Transport Simon Bridges offering to build 10 bridges in the Northland by-election in the hope of making sure he got a National candidate elected; that didn\u2019t work out so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e36015663c24871a1b58b055034b2ab\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, is the Government prioritising the spending of $370 million on a merger of Television New Zealand and Radio New Zealand, when neither the Minister responsible nor the Prime Minister can give coherent reasons for why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c20be28e744d2d8dddd95d4cd820fe\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the actual expenditure on that project in the current financial year, I believe the number is somewhere around $20 million. The spending that the member is talking about is what happens over coming years. From this side of the House\u2019s point of view, it\u2019s important that we continue to invest in all of the services that New Zealanders need. Public service broadcasting is one of those things that will require funding however it is organised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110cc55700154d289cddea6cb86fe8d0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he ignore advice from Treasury to not use funding from the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund to manage the impact of ongoing spending and instead chose to raid that fund to pay for yet more three waters consultants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7aad5715eae4b5bbaf80dbc52429153\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertions in the member\u2019s question. What we did at Budget 2022 was close the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund and do as any Government would do: make a decision about where to reallocate that funding to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd241f72952f4e9db15e9abdba25e2b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd3071a875564275a3d7d88c8ac66013\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd3071a875564275a3d7d88c8ac66013\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What recent announcements has the Government made about helping Police respond to fleeing drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224220dc4239c34f5a948b726fca83fdac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224220dc4239c34f5a948b726fca83fdac\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the Minister of Justice and I announced a range of legislative measures designed to give police greater enforcement tools when dealing with dangerous and reckless driving on our roads. Overall, the changes will mean drivers can be disqualified for longer, have their vehicle taken away for good, or that the owner of a car could have their vehicle impounded if they choose not to help police track down the driver of a fleeing vehicle. Put simply, if you flee from the police, be prepared to lose your car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f22ee7288a0b4a18a328213619921f87\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these changes important, and how will they actually support police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223929f4b0a7e442949150b0e9bcf72cc0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Police have told us that these changes will help discourage people from fleeing, because they\u2019re now likely to lose their vehicle for longer or for good. There were 8,673 fleeing driver events in the last 12 months\u2014that\u2019s the 12 months ending 31 August\u2014which is an increase, a substantial increase, on last year\u2019s 6,757 events. While no law enforcement can ever stop an offender from choosing to flee, evidence does indicate that the changes most likely to influence offender behaviour are those that create a greater likelihood of getting caught and then losing access to their vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022151253014e444cd182fe338d63fd18ca\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What exactly will the changes do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d74cb31e664f619e229fc99131a011\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The changes will increase the maximum driver licence disqualification period for a second offence of failing to stop or remain stopped from 12 months to between 12 months and 24 months. They\u2019ll amend the Sentencing Act so that a vehicle can be forfeited on conviction for failing to stop\u2014which would mean that offenders could have their vehicle permanently removed and they would not get any proceeds back from the sale of it\u2014and they allow police to impound a vehicle for 28 days if the owner fails, refuses, or provides false or misleading information about the identity of a driver from a fleeing vehicle event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249d194ab30e44b038e1791937fe7a520\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022489af6558fc646e39fb23169c2960604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022489af6558fc646e39fb23169c2960604\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does he agree with Royal Commissioner Paul Gibson that \u201CThe experiences of disabled survivors, shared with the Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry, describe a terrible history. But it would be a mistake to believe this remains in our past\u201D; if so, what interventions are in place, if any, to ensure a disability rights focus within Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002275086a70e6674edd93252673e9235de7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275086a70e6674edd93252673e9235de7\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E First, can I just thank the member. I think this is an important conversation to have\u2014that we do shine a light on the experiences of our hapori whaikaha\u2014so thank you very much. In terms of the Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry, it has, undoubtedly, highlighted some traumatic experiences suffered in the care system. So it\u2019s important that we do listen to the survivors and that we ensure that this doesn\u2019t happen again. It\u2019s also important to remember that ensuring disability rights are strongly in focus as a whole system\u2014it doesn\u2019t just come down to one agency, because many disabled tamariki have multi-layered issues. But Oranga Tamariki is driving change across the system through the Oranga Tamariki Action Plan; the Oranga Tamariki Future Direction Action Plan; through the appointment of a Disability Advisory Group; through appointing a Chief Advisor Disability; through the development of a disability strategy, to be completed by May 2023; through examining whether residential care is fit for purpose; and also through having appointed Ruth Jones to the ministerial advisory board as a voice for our hapori whaikaha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffaa5da6669e4bdf8d7d12eafad03180\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen Paul Gibson\u2019s further statement that \u201CMany families who had disabled children faced a hopeless search for community-based services, an acute lack of any support for their child to be cared for within the home\u201D, and, if so, will he ensure the strategy prioritises safety of care within the home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e0b9281fac457ba5baff9cc64764db\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen that comment, and that\u2019s what I say about the Oranga Tamariki Action Plan\u2014make sure that the whole system is looking after the needs of the children. So it\u2019s not just about Oranga Tamariki, it\u2019s not just about Education, it\u2019s not just about Health; every agency has a responsibility to look after the needs of our disabled community, in particular in the home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a79f5f1df1425782589d217af25cdb\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Are disability rights systematically included in staff training\u2014in light of the stories of survivors of abuse in State care\u2014and, if not, when does he expect this to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ff5bf588a54c9e95b724be2115d8f5\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Not necessarily as a result of the inquiry into abuse in State care, but as part of the Future Direction Action Plan, where social worker practice is a key element of that plan. We are making sure that social workers do have the skills to look after children from across society, including those with disabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdcc323275741fc92df1f668b69df59\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Acknowledging the Minister said the strategy was due in May 2023, does he have a sense of when disabled children and their wh\u0101nau might expect to see an increase in resources available to them and support through our child protection system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a696421a0fc54656a595e9bce4e5d9ff\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, that comes down to, I guess, the way we drive the Oranga Tamariki Action Plan. All Ministers have agreed that children in Oranga Tamariki care are a priority population. So all Ministers are really working to make sure that all of their agencies provide for the needs of our disabled community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ecc0f25ab6c45f183aeb0ecca66bfdb\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have any reflections, at this stage, on the stories coming through the royal commission and the challenges they reflect for us as a country in terms of protecting our children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227832db42522f4b239dc4cfe2828b0ae7\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do have reflections. I wonder how on earth we could have let this happen over the course of five decades. I have told the story before of a gang member in his 60s who sat down with me and said, at the age of 10, he was picked up from his family for four years because the State didn\u2019t believe that his parents could care for him properly and the rest of his siblings. Within two weeks of coming out of State care, at the age of 14, he had joined Black Power. All his children became gang members, all his grandchildren became gang members, and, I\u2019m sure, many of his great-grandchildren became gang members. We can\u2019t sit in here and judge him and his family for all becoming gang members when the institution that actually created the situation in the first place was the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022146a1c85aec240a5a079093dedefbb9b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d461f221e41f435f8f07b5a0e841a402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d461f221e41f435f8f07b5a0e841a402\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is she confident the justice system is prioritising community safety and providing justice to the victims of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002273b51816fd3b4e8cba8ea1f788b15773\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b51816fd3b4e8cba8ea1f788b15773\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because we have put more than 1,600 police on the front line. That\u2019s over and above attrition. We have increased the police budget every year after the National Government froze it year on year on year. We are doing more to reduce the harm caused by firearms than any previous Government and we are doing more to tackle gangs and organised crime than ever. All victims of crime deserve our sympathy and support, which is why we have doubled the level of funding for the victims assistance scheme since National left office, and in Budget 2022 we put aside $45 million of a whole-of-Government support approach for victims of crime. On retail crime in particular, shop owners and workers feeling targeted is completely unacceptable, and this is why we have rolled out a thousand fog cannons since 2018. We have introduced a new fog cannon subsidy scheme that will provide all small retailers with $4,000 to go towards installing fog cannons. We have invested $6 million into a retail crime prevention fund to help fund things like CCTV, shatterproof glass, bollards, and other improvements at retail stores. This is a Government that is focused on the victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc750f69f07b42ddbb012d3c921cd78f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why is a 30 percent reduction in prison numbers, irrespective of how many crimes or victims there are, this Government\u2019s only explicit justice target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775857dbe06440fc9c52e391a30a2ef1\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we have been focused on ensuring that there is a continuing trend on crime that is going downwards. When we look at targets, we are making sure that we are focusing on the victims of crime. If we want to take a fact-based approach to this discussion around crime and law and order, I have only but repeated the statistics in this House every single week. We have seen a general trajectory\u2014a downwards trajectory\u2014of crime going downwards over the last 10 years. But it\u2019s this pitch I want to bring this House\u2019s mind to: that side of the House is focused on getting tough on crime slogans\u2014boot camps that cost expensive amounts of money and have an 85 percent failure rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca4dfe083a814c7ab37065790f443b1e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! [Interruption] Order! I warn the member that when I stand and say \u201COrder!\u201D, she should sit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f681909364ab497ab633b4dcef2ec5f0\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. That was an interesting answer to a question Mr Goldsmith did not ask. There was no addressing of the question of the reduction in prison numbers or the explicit justice targets of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97b8afdad334b9695f902c106c8312d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I completely agree. I will award the Hon Paul Goldsmith two additional supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de0747e8ccd04bab92595b5182adfd6a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is she denying there has been a 20 percent increase in serious crime in the last few years, and, if not, why is the only target that the Government has a 30 percent reduction in prison numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e20e35f586744928e7b158dc9b22478\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member for bringing some facts to this House. Let\u2019s talk about facts. What we have seen over the past 10 years\u2014they know, we know; we see spikes in crime all the time. When that side of the House was in Government these are the spikes of crime that we saw. [Holds up graph] We are seeing a spike in crime\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bdc81b4ce44b5fade00bbbb27234de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I would ask the member to ask the question again. It\u2019s a straight-up question. We do not need attacks on the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31d3a23de3646bda56bbb6e6b439dd2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister denying there has been a 20 percent increase in serious crime in the last few years and, if not, why is the only target that this Government has in the justice sector a 30 percent reduction in prisoner numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644c3ca35352416eb4aab11a3e478284\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I refute the premise of that question. This side\u2014the Government\u2014has a range of different targets and we\u2019re working solidly towards those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a85f62d10d34e9bb7051953b12aa210\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What are the other explicit justice targets? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a014f45688974160a6a1a4be90ef4fda\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: For example, just in retail crime alone, one of the targets that we have is to provide wraparound support for victims of crime. The targets that we have are to make sure that we get resources out to those victims of crime. We have the belt and braces measures approach that we have announced earlier this week, and if I compare it to the approach from the side opposite, in 2016, when they invested in things like fog cannons\u2014a failed approach\u2014we fixed them in 2018. We continue to up the ante when it comes to ensuring that there are the appropriate responses in place for those victims of crime, and that\u2019s just one of many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b112b340abf454b8cc29951398e1f7c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister know the difference between a target and ambition? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223341148457964fd3974d7d245c3e74ef\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we know the difference between spikes of crime that are temporal and a trajectory that goes straight down, and this is where the statistics show us where we are at. [Holds up graph] This is the state of crime here in Aotearoa right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022950d584cbbc04be09a5c41356c8f5bd8\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Would real consequences for serious youth offenders be a better solution to the increase in ram raids than telling shop owners to defend themselves with fog cannons and bollards and then not delivering them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022932e221a611f4d359528ee858cfc39e3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member again for that question, because I think that the real issue is in how we do address our youth crime. We know that when the National Government attempted to do so, particularly in 2016\u2014when we saw that immeasurable strike right there [Holds up graph]\u2014the response was boot camps, failed boot camps of 85 percent proportionality, and slogans like \u201Ccrushing cars\u201D. What this side of the House does is we focus on evidence. Now, that side of the House may call it \u201CKumbaya\u201D mush; we call it wraparound services that get results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e2d4c77c6646c2b2abfc6426d76ca7\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister aware of the evidence that there\u2019s been a 500 percent increase in ram raids in the last year, and what is she doing about it effectively, rather than just announcing more funds? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff79918d0c42410ca999e17de553a5d4\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m well aware of the statistics. I\u2019ve shown them to this House on multiple occasions. What we are seeing is a general trajectory over the last 10 years\u2014but particularly under the Labour Government\u2014of crime rates that have come down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e1b5021d6f46ceb4a2e686156622ec\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has she or her predecessor, as Minister of Justice, sought advice on the effects of automatic release provisions for first-time prisoners with a sentence of five years or lower? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285217d68fadb4c85b0d2d313f538d4e3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have no immediate plans or any other plans to make any changes to those types of measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e5931a67f9045888a7b40ef4d833d44\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That wasn\u2019t the question, and it was not addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022773f2dd3f67e48c4ad96ad2a1f63c639\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll ask the member to ask the question again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b1f0fa1f1554c2eb2ee6b0a2a37d903\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has she or her predecessor, as Minister of Justice, sought advice on the effects of an automatic release provision for first-time prisoners with a sentence of five years or lower? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce78a0b9842415b96b7ba8405e45407\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think it was\u2014[Interruption] Pardon? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2d980563e445aab62e65669508a327\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question absolutely was addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbe335edecd46ef92adb7217f2d052a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222485eb0cef384ef5b7243f71f498615e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u002257d9ffdb11ba4eb7ada70c4a8a1b484d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257d9ffdb11ba4eb7ada70c4a8a1b484d\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What announcements has she made on extending hardship support for dental grants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002210ea16fa41ed495dac7aa7e2cf5e0317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210ea16fa41ed495dac7aa7e2cf5e0317\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E In Budget 2022, the Government announced a lift in the amount someone can receive in hardship support for dental grants from 300 to 1,000 per year. This change came into force on 1 December. During 2021, approximately 40,000 people used the $300 special needs grant for dental support through the Ministry of Social Development. However, the grant had not been increased since 1 July 1996, and $300 was no longer adequate. This is why many people needed an advance payment of benefit to fully meet their emergency dental costs. By increasing the dental grant to $1,000, it\u2019s estimated that we will reduce the amount of client debt to Ministry of Social Development clients by $95 million over 4 years, as more of the costs will be covered by the non-recoverable grant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668ad59f2130429e984d4f59d6272acd\u0022\u003EDr Emily Henderson\u003C/span\u003E: What other changes to hardship support will help people access dental grants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fb28ae0eb14356a2d91cefe9449ff5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: In Budget 2022, we announced a lift in the income limits for hardship support. This means more low-income people will be able to access hardship assistance, which includes help for costs such as food, bedding, bond, car repairs, electricity, gas, and, of course, dental grants. We estimate the changes we have made will increase the number of people accessing dental support from 40,000 to 50,000 people per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202ef44a347345d0bafaba6a560d62a8\u0022\u003EDr Emily Henderson\u003C/span\u003E: Why is extending this support important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed34441403f46df9806fde340091a9c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Dental care is something that can be put off by people due to affordability difficulties, especially in low-income households. We also know that issues with dental health have a negative impact on people\u2019s general health, financial health, ability to work, and quality of life. This is particularly important when it comes to employment. Having bad oral health can decrease someone\u2019s confidence and affect their ability to secure long-term, sustainable employment. Therefore, the changes to the grant could have a positive effect on getting people disadvantaged in the labour market into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221661ecd3b7714898810d678c0c4788e4\u0022\u003EDr Emily Henderson\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any changes to the criteria for the grant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022189d1c7a25024e12b3f48c9d4ae68cd6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Alongside increasing the grant and lifting the hardship thresholds, we have widened the criteria for the grant. Instead of the grant only being available in an emergency treatment, it will now be available for essential treatment to help stop minor problems becoming major ones. We\u2019ve also changed the amount of times you can access the grant throughout the year. Previously, you could only receive one dental grant, even if it did not reach the $300 limit. Clients will now be able to access the grant multiple times in one year up to the value of $1,000, meaning if you have a treatment that costs $400, you still have $600 you can access if another necessary treatment is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a365d7e1f0e744f7b113229a6a00ed59\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why was the non-recoverable amount set at $1,000 when no one should be getting into debt because of their oral health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022189447d579c34cc5912ef74b59cc9243\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s fair to say that it is a significant lift, considering it hadn\u2019t been shifted in over 25 years. What we did see was that many clients who were accessing the $300 grant previously were also incurring debt via the advanced benefit payment that they were having to access to pay the additional amount that wasn\u2019t covered by the grant. From memory, they were ending up with a debt that was around $800 because of that\u2014I think that was on average. So this goes a long way to supporting the clients with their dental health needs, as well as addressing the debt issues that many of our clients experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae8b5599e2f9475c81ef7f237bcfcb0f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022184e94eeaebb4423a7071707183068b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022184e94eeaebb4423a7071707183068b9\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: On what date did he first write to Labour MPs encouraging them to put forward bids for funding under the $350 million Transport Choices package, and on what date did NZTA open expressions of interest for councils to bid for the funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc10f7d78fea415caa51084520e999b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc10f7d78fea415caa51084520e999b0\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I reject the assertion in the member\u2019s question. The Transport Choices package was announced publicly in May as part of Budget 2022. On 27 June, I wrote to my Labour colleagues reminding them of the purpose of the fund and encouraged them to engage with their communities and councils to help in the collation of ideas for it. MPs did not make bids that were assessed by Waka Kotahi. The Transport Choices package will support 397 new or upgraded bus stops, 242 kilometres of new or upgraded cycleways, 119 school improvements, 29 more walkable neighbourhoods, and 11 new bus prioritisation lanes. All 46 councils who put in a bid received funding for projects in their areas\u2014all of them. These projects will help make our towns and cities more people-friendly places. They will reduce emissions and make life better for local residents in many towns and cities all around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fb8f7cacc104546a8226d8b079add49\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: When he wrote to Labour MPs on 27 June saying that if they \u201Cwould like to bring potential projects in your area to my attention, please contact my office.\u201D, how is that not a political slush fund when councils couldn\u2019t express interest until over one month later?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d0a2f1de1b492aa620c5b55473b930\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I can explain that very, very clearly, and, again, I reject the assertion in the member\u2019s question. I provide that member and the House with assurance that I would not conduct the affairs of my ministry in that way and neither would Waka Kotahi, who were the ones who made the recommendations for the expenditure of this fund. The way that the process worked was that Waka Kotahi engaged with councils, they collected the ideas that came through from councils and communities, and then put through recommendations to joint Ministers. The one significant change that I made to the recommendation that was brought through from Waka Kotahi is that they recommended funding went to 42 of the 46 councils who applied; I thought it would be more equitable to ensure that all councils who applied received funding, and so I asked that that happened. That included funding going to councils such as the Invercargill City Council and the Ruapehu District Council, which are of course represented by National Party MPs. Again, I say to the member that the way that this process went about was through the collation of bids that came from councils and an assessment of those based on their merits and based on the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca75c9b20ee4d189ff2984c1d8f6735\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: So why, then, did the Minister choose to write to Labour MPs over one month before expressions of interest were open for councils, and why, then, did he not write to all members of Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc05933380374acf984e66c825296648\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very happy to provide the full context of the comments that I made to Labour MPs in the letter that I sent to them. I said, \u201CAs Waka Kotahi engages with councils about possible programmes for investment, I want to encourage you to spread the message about how critical providing competitive transport choices is to reducing emissions and support these important initiatives as they get under way. You may also want to encourage councils to identify which gaps in their networks and supporting investments may make the greatest difference to people\u2019s transport choices.\u201D Our Government is one that is investing to give people greater transport choices and to invest in a low-emissions transport infrastructure. I know that the National Party criticises every investment we make to reduce emissions within the transport system, but even this is desperate for them. Again, I repeat to the House that 46 councils from around the country applied for funding and 46 councils received funding for projects. There was no favouritism in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695c95389b4a47e58f66abba37e91b89\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister write to Labour MPs on 27 June, one month prior to councils being able to put an expression of interest in, saying that if they \u201Cwould like to bring potential projects in your area to my attention, please contact my office.\u201D, and why didn\u2019t that go to all MPs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d1c22dfd67345e7a9f9494d8ed0e5de\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Because it is perfectly normal for Government MPs to support Government policies and to talk with Ministers about things they want to advocate for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022096da1eb1b7b46a2aa68ff865dfcdf74\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u00222cca5f3ab6734c6695f1e1d454f065ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cca5f3ab6734c6695f1e1d454f065ab\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is to\u2014[Members interjecting]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a59ea14711374ba7a5c2d2e119ec7867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a59ea14711374ba7a5c2d2e119ec7867\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can we start that again? And I\u2019m warning Dr Megan Woods and Nicola Willis\u2014cut that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u00221d58bc2576004d08a873fa60382f9ef5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d58bc2576004d08a873fa60382f9ef5\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Women: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What recent announcements have been made on the Government\u2019s progress on pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224a386cd4c3a24c8d8ab9cc0c5fe2d19e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a386cd4c3a24c8d8ab9cc0c5fe2d19e\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has announced that we will extend pay equity to all community and iwi organisations who employ social workers and receive funding from the Crown. This is expected to reach approximately 4,600 social workers, who, as a result, will be paid more fairly for the incredible work they do, with some of our most vulnerable in society. This extension comes after a pay equity settlement for almost 500 social workers employed in five community and iwi organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226be106e519e84fb193155254677e9b32\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: What other claims have been settled since the passing of the amendments to the Equal Pay Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224903db2969494cd5b4ba31b5dfbe1442\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Five claims have been settled under the new amendments to the Act so far. These amendments have enabled the settlement of historic pay equity claims in female-dominated industries. As a result of these settlements, there has been an average pay correction of 33 percent. This has made a significant impact on the lives of New Zealand women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226370184b68674accbdf3b1be2aa222f4\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she heard from social workers on the impact their pay equity settlement has had on their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cef02cdda9242e7bccef7a76d0e7471\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to share with the House a quote from a social worker at Oranga Tamariki who said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWhen the social workers\u2019 pay equity settlement was reached, the impact on me was huge. The impact on the social work profession was huge. It righted the wrong. It ensured that the front-line social workers at Oranga Tamariki were going to be paid what they should have been if they had not experienced gender undervaluation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b283bb23ca50497bb87eaf45fe1ff785\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps in the Government\u2019s work programme for pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7d13c331e54460abf39a57788816c75\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: There are currently 27 active pay equity claims across the economy. This is complex work and, as a world leader, New Zealand is doing well to right the wrongs that many women have faced in the workplace, but it does take time. This year\u20142022\u2014has seen a significant increase in the claims, with 18 percent of all claims ever raised being in this calendar year. However, this Government believes in fair pay for fair work and in ending gender discrimination in the workplace. We are committed to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b37858cbfe9c4556aea46b8adf985a5b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002258c9196a4e374a5cadcdbb5b5db4aa59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258c9196a4e374a5cadcdbb5b5db4aa59\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is he confident that all information stolen during the firearms licensing data breach at the former Auckland Central Police Station on Vincent Street has since been recovered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d62b6c0202954d7cb2f385906c5cdd39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d62b6c0202954d7cb2f385906c5cdd39\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Police have advised me that they believe that all of the information stolen during the firearms licensing data breach at the former Auckland Central Police Station on Vincent Street have been recovered. The member may also be reassured to know that the police have been regularly running checks to identify if any firearms licence holders have been subject to a burglary, and I\u2019m advised that no one from this cohort has been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd87a7b8a52548f09e8a737ea6ea5f11\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister be confident that all of the information stolen during the firearms licensing data breach has been recovered, when he can\u2019t confirm that of the contents of the storage bin that was stolen from the former police station after being left there for 11 to 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75a8640d39b43fd87ff20451b59979a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I can only go off the advice that Police have provided me, and they have provided me with advice that they believe that all of the information stolen has been recovered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c32dd83fdb4bed988e9c6d33d0cd92\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Why have only 2,245 individuals\u2014out of the 3,763 individuals who were affected by the firearms licensing data breach\u2014been contacted by police, and what efforts are being made to contact the remaining individuals affected by this data breach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492b8493564a47c884bb91e969d8443b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m advised that Police has now analysed over 4,000 documents that were stolen and recovered. Police have spoken to 329 individuals of an initial group of 444 whose data sheets contained full details of names and addresses. Police have been unsuccessful in contacting the remaining 115 individuals by phone. They have attempted to send them communications\u2014either email or text messages\u2014to their last known contact details. Police have further identified a further 2,814 individuals for whom partial identifying information was on the documents, including partial full name or address. There have been 1,293 notified via email or text message; however, not all individuals have been easily identifiable, and the police continue to identify and notify those individuals as they can. Police has also released a public notice encouraging firearms licence holders and anyone seeking information on the privacy breach to contact police on an 0800 number that has been provided, or a dedicated email address which has also been provided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e080d618fc4c4f965fd18b727439b2\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his response to my written questions, where he confirmed that he hasn\u2019t received any reports, briefings, memos, aide-m\u00E9moire, notes, or written advice on this matter from July to date, and, if so, what communications has he received on this matter that justifies the confidence? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cfc2a467bbd4ce7ab19e150ac7764bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: At the time of the answer, it was correct\u2014of course, I\u2019ve received some further information today in preparation to answer the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429ab1e385c847c0ac1cc14b87892408\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect firearm owners to have confidence in participating in full registration of their firearms, and if so, why should firearm owners have confidence when police could not keep their information secure or even hold an inquiry to investigate how such a data breach was able to occur?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022837811011617499f858935bfd8fa0c68\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think that the situation that occurred with Vincent Street was completely unacceptable, and I think that Police do acknowledge that. I think moving to a digitised system of keeping firearms records will ultimately be more secure than having paper files in filing cabinets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc23261af0874cbc9be12fbe64c44064\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022daea5f5ebb31401e90c0b26bbf8a7d5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daea5f5ebb31401e90c0b26bbf8a7d5b\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does she stand by her statement on entrenching a provision of the Water Services Entities Bill, \u201CWe know that while this particular SOP may not pass the constitutional threshold, there is a moral obligation of people who believe that privatisation should not occur to support that particular SOP\u201D, and does she stand by all her statements on entrenchment provisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc0e98e17a9c4981ad0d33a2f0f1c977\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc0e98e17a9c4981ad0d33a2f0f1c977\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E As stated yesterday to exactly the same question, yes. I also stand by my statement that we want all New Zealanders to know that when members in this House say they\u2019re against privatisation, they actually mean it. But some people want to create a perception that they don\u2019t want privatisation. However, they are offering up ways in which you could better privatise water infrastructure assets, and we have already seen what happened in relation to electricity reforms. It has always been a bottom line for Government to safeguard against privatisation when improving water services delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0ade65035047c78b8916283734fc98\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Water Services Entities Bill report back to the House on 22 November with entrenchment of a privatisation provision when Cabinet resolved on 30 May \u201Cthat the Bill should not entrench the privatisation provisions in the Bill;\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf8d1119a9674164bbdcf07539150af1\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Because Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 285 had a lower threshold that was accepted under Standing Order 270. We rectified the advice that came after the vote was taken. A mistake has been fixed, and we\u2019re moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c23686d56dfd456b8cd28d42b9df0aff\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Did she discuss the 60 percent entrenchment of clause 116 of the Water Services Entities Bill with any Green Party MPs before SOP 285 was tabled; if so, who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225641072ae7b04938b4da6c758566a75b\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the House yesterday, we became aware of Standing Order 285 when it was tabled in the House. Let me be clear; I made an error yesterday in the timing, because that amendment to SOP 285 was tabled in the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de88858c7fce4bbaaa6611661b5a31e6\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e39a3e8b2bc46359f30f7a46d39db54\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I am answering the question. Listen to the answer. [Interruption] If you really want to hear the answer, listen. That SOP was tabled in the House after our caucus meeting on 22 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c58a01f4b8469997ca4a5bc7d664ef\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I think you know what I\u2019m about to say, which is that that was a very clear question about conversations between the Minister and Green Party members of Parliament, and that answer did not mention that at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9ee9182008b475a8dc8573dd3a6ee0a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: None the less, it\u2019s been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2365b0a24654f9b8f0b7fdbf180b337\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Did Cabinet authorise her to make a decision on any entrenchment amendments tabled on the Water Services Entities Bill, and, if not, why did she say \u201Csupporting entrenchment was a moral obligation\u201D despite Cabinet agreeing not to entrench any privatisation provisions on 30 May?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f09fb93be74b45c79ea3125f147b9911\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the House yesterday, Cabinet papers that I referred to in the House yesterday provided the context of entrenchment matters that were considered, and for clarity, the dates of those Cabinet papers were April 2022 and 30 May 2022. The SOP 285 that the member is referring to was an SOP by a member of the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a332acf49240e8bd8f9acfd3aaceb6\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister had assurances from all parties in this House that they will very definitely not sell our water assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293d4691200c647849147895e5b8400c8\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Sadly, no. National and ACT have not agreed to any undertaking of that kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284b9eff924b345a48018b7ce9c65eb15\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Digital Economy and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00229c13620326ca4ed9854213c2dec18980\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c13620326ca4ed9854213c2dec18980\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications: What reports has he seen about improved rural broadband?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00220f16b1f4c3d842e8a7db03d3ac478eb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f16b1f4c3d842e8a7db03d3ac478eb3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications):\u003C/span\u003E The expansion of the Rural Capacity Upgrade programme, funded out of Budget 2022, and a Labour Party manifesto commitment, means around 30,000 rural homes and communities will soon have access to faster, improved connectivity. I was pleased to be at Fieldays last week to share this good news alongside the launch of Lifting Connectivity in Aotearoa, which sets out a high-level connectivity vision for New Zealand over the next decade. This will significantly improve connectivity for homes and businesses, and has the potential to boost economic productivity for those with a slow or unreliable connection across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6620b28952340e1a8f68b3ad95e1b48\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has he seen following last week\u2019s announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa57ebd1ad1a4b488162b8bf664cf7f3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Our connectivity plan has won the support of Tech Users Association of New Zealand (TUANZ) chief executive Craig Young who said, \u201CWe\u2019ve been proposing a 10 year plan for some time now, so it\u2019s great to see this is now in place with some clear objectives and principles on how the Government aims to meet these.\u201D Federated Farmers have applauded the Government\u2019s rural connectivity ambitions. Board member Richard McIntyre said, \u201CWhile it\u2019s going to take a lot more investment on top of the money already announced, we applaud the commitments made to [long-term] rural connectivity solutions,\u201D. The expansion of the Rural Capacity Upgrade programme has also gathered praise from the Rural Support Trust, stating that connectivity is not available to a lot of people, so this is really encouraging. With more businesses online, more people working from home, and access to many health services, the opportunity for greater economic growth is there, and this Government is ensuring greater access for those in our rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c17361eb9f84c238a917927a1a5d0df\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on improved rural broadband?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc00eb0d9d747fd91210c5960a3914f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: More good news. The latest Crown Infrastructure Partners quarterly connectivity data shows that as of September 2022, 86.4 percent of the population can now access ultra-fast broadband (UFB). That\u2019s up from 63 percent when we came into Government at the end of 2017. The member for Tukituki will be pleased to know that for the Hawke\u2019s Bay region, the proportion of New Zealanders able to access UFB went from 57 percent in 2017 right up to 85 percent in September this year. This is a Government\u2019s that delivering for rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad51a9535354e93ac0445c71a1576f2\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What support is there for those living in the most remote communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a465b54a639242288aa084d1268e64b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The Remote Users Scheme was launched last month, and it will equip as many of our most remote households as possible with broadband for the first time. We think there might be up to around 5,500 households who may be eligible to connect for the first time, and this initiative, which provides a grant of up to $2,000, has been designed with them in mind. The Government has also made deals with the major telecommunications network operators to accelerate the roll-out of 5G services across New Zealand and improve rural connectivity. For the first time, a spectrum roll-out of this type has placed requirements on those providers to prioritise rural and provincial connectivity. It is as important for wellbeing in our rural communities as it is for futureproofing our agricultural exports. As the global cost of living crisis puts pressure on New Zealanders and their families, we know a reliable connection will make it easier to earn, learn, and socialise from home. It\u2019s just as important for our remote communities, and this Government is finally putting them first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c12d1a82f91a4d44a0b6a4d3cef03890\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002283511a496d0d4e9bb69b3c73ed0b1dc8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220105aa11baf9452da2d0f096e927a3da\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill: Why is tackling alcohol advertising, as proposed in Part 2 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill, important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00229c11c6b0acb74311b86c2db5fc11b41d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c11c6b0acb74311b86c2db5fc11b41d\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Member in charge of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s important because alcohol, like all drugs, can cause harm. Alcohol is the most commonly used drug in Aotearoa New Zealand, consumed by 80 percent of adults, a quarter of those to harmful ends. As the Cancer Society says, it is a class 1 carcinogen and known to cause many cancers, while economists estimate it costs our country up to $7.85 billion annually. In 2014, the then National Government commissioned a ministerial forum on alcohol advertising and sponsorship in sports to consider whether restrictions on marketing could reduce alcohol harm. The forum, chaired by Sir Graham Lowe, found very clearly that they could reduce alcohol normalisation and glamorisation and, therefore, alcohol harm, by ultimately phasing out all alcohol marketing in sports like we did with tobacco in the 1990s. The alcohol harm minimisation bill would implement three of the recommendations in that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff3352901df4ebaa3e9b6a23d018736\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: How would ending broadcast alcohol advertising impact funding for sports organisations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ca06f7686f4a55b9979ea522823ac7\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have asked the alcohol, advertising, and sports sector for the 2022 value of sports sponsorship. All of them have said that they cannot provide the figures but they estimate that it is less than the $20 million that was estimated back in the 2014 ministerial forum. I have written to many members in this House outlining the two key mechanisms that we could use to assist with the phasing out of alcohol sponsorship in sports; namely, they are, first, a time-limited fund like the one set up to phase out tobacco sponsorship in sports\u2014as actually recommended by that 2014 ministerial forum\u2014or, secondly, to use the pre-existing health promotion levy, recycling an extra approximate 2c on a can of beer, 2c on a ready-to-drink, 5c on a bottle of wine, and 6c on a bottle of spirits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002284b92fd0993f471eb60fcff648e7ee3b\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207bb491ffd034519a92d56eb6f435cbe\u0022\u003ECyber-security\u2014Incident at Ministry of Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022721f76cd40564245a5e08ac52e049eea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022721f76cd40564245a5e08ac52e049eea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from Nicole McKee seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 a recent cyber-security attack involving the Ministry of Justice. This is a particular case of recent occurrence. An urgent debate is a way of holding the Government accountable for an action for which it is responsible\u2014Speaker\u2019s Ruling 200/4. It is not clear from the member\u2019s letter what Government action she wishes to debate. That is a central requirement of an urgent debate application\u2014Speaker\u2019s Ruling 200/4 and 205/5. The application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262a0b9dfa0474a64936e6b3505b68afe\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb03287b271d49ae8e33be7b148ac949\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226cdc06d0e918475ea9fba364554bbdeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cdc06d0e918475ea9fba364554bbdeb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into the morning of Thursday, 8 December for the third reading of the Water Services Entities Bill; consideration in committee of the Electoral Amendment Bill, the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill, and the Natural Hazards Insurance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ae9bff1f85a743d6bed482cdbb8a75a8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 76\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 40\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 30; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000186\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 73, Noes 40.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da939d3533ea4999ab9c5b9ffebac8c5\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a832d110625542909191865cac853ce1\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022adac1df4e60d4f0e8be9f22662602fc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adac1df4e60d4f0e8be9f22662602fc7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis Government, in the last five years, has faced some of the biggest challenges that any Government, in any time in our history, has faced. If we think about dealing with our end of a global pandemic, that has been challenging enough. When we think about dealing with a terrorist attack on a minority in part of New Zealand, that has been challenging enough. When we think about dealing with a national tragedy like Whakaari / White Island, that has been challenging enough. If we think about dealing with the growing frequency of serious weather events that are causing major damage and trauma to many of our communities, that is challenging enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut nothing has been as challenging as dealing with the utter mess this country was left in by the previous Government that we\u2019ve had to step up and deal with. When we think about a health system suffering from years of underinvestment and struggling to be consistent but, most importantly, equitable across our country. When we think about a mental health system that was just literally ignored and neglected because we had a Government that did not care about people who needed that help. We think about an education system that was struggling to do its job of consistent education, good literacy, good training, and a good environment for our children across the country. Classrooms that were leaking\u2014classrooms and facilities that were desperately short of what was needed to keep our children in a good environment. We think about regions that were desperate for investment, desperate to keep their people, desperate to keep their businesses. We think about a police force that was understaffed and under-resourced, and a former police Minister who signed off on a reduction in the police force in 2016. We think about a social support system that had been set up to punish and stigmatise rather than support and transform, which is what we have now. And we think about a drinking water, a waste water, and a stormwater system that was struggling to cope, has been underinvested in for far too long, and to which the previous Government simply turned a blind eye. Everywhere you looked, everywhere we looked, we saw neglect, we saw cans being kicked down the road, and a Government that just gave up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut then Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern turned up with this Government and it all changed, and it has all changed. We\u2019ve got on with dealing with those hard, intractable, nearly impossible issues. All those issues we\u2019ve been dealing with: health, education, welfare, all those things. What have we done? We\u2019ve lifted incomes. We\u2019ve got people who were on benefits working. We\u2019ve lifted incomes in the last year alone, on average, 8.8 percent\u2014that\u2019s the lift in incomes that New Zealanders have enjoyed. We\u2019ve lifted tens of thousands of children out of poverty through better income support and through the school lunches programme. That\u2019s a testament to Ministers like the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, the Hon Chris Hipkins, and, of course, our Prime Minister in her capacity as Minister for dealing with child poverty. We\u2019ve got more young people in apprenticeships than ever before\u2014more than 50,000 young people in apprenticeships. That\u2019s thanks not only to people like Carmel Sepuloni, again, but to Willie Jackson, with his Mana in Mahi programme and He Poutama Rangatahi programme. We\u2019ve got more police\u20141,600 more of them. And what we now know is that more crime is being resolved; people who commit crimes now have a better chance of getting caught than ever before. And, of course, we have the huge challenge of waste water, of drinking water and stormwater, because we\u2019re not kicking the can down the road anymore. I pay tribute to our colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta for the incredible work that she has done to face up to that challenge and actually do something about it. Because, on this side of the House, we have a Government with Ministers who are focused on the task. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EForget about the noise. Forget about the people opposite with no plan, with no idea, with nothing but chipping away. This is a Government that is getting on with the business. A stable Government with stable Ministers focused on the task at hand, knowing what New Zealanders need, and delivering on that promise. And we\u2019re doing all that stuff, looking after New Zealanders, while also responding to a global pandemic that has seen billions of people around the world shut in their homes and shut in their cities. We\u2019ve done this because this is a Government that has given priority to the stuff that matters to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5c924a3859418ca6fdba8bb3eccd34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5c924a3859418ca6fdba8bb3eccd34\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E ACT believes New Zealanders should have hope about our future, even though 2022\u2019s been a tough year with the cost of living crisis, crime out of control in our cities, and the sense that the Government is trading away New Zealanders\u2019 property rights and freshwater rights to a privileged few. However, the things that matter to New Zealanders have actually changed very little over the last 50 years: that if you work hard, save hard, you can build or buy a family home, you can raise a family or even a dog; that the natural environment and those special places that are important to New Zealanders should be protected; and that we have safe and efficient transport options to get around our cities, to get between our regions and our ports and markets, and even catch a bus\u2014if it arrives on time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhen I was an engineering student in the 1990s, I fully expected that New Zealand would continue to get better. We would solve problems around waste and pollution, fresh water, and biodiversity. Our cities would grow into modern, fun metros like Sydney or Melbourne, and there would be affordable homes and lifestyles for people of all ages and stages of life. We would be able to get around on safe and fast freeways, linking cities, regions, ports, and actually have decent public transport which turned up on time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut since the high-water mark of personal freedom and private property rights in the 1990s, things have not progressed that way for New Zealand. More and more rules limit how people can use their own land, which makes housing less affordable and delivers fewer housing options for younger people starting their careers; more rules which make building vital infrastructure slow and expensive but do little to enhance the environment; more people and groups with special interests are allowed to object to vital projects like upgrading ports and building the electricity transmission lines we need to transition to a renewable energy future. Labour has proposed challenges in resource management and planning laws which will actually make these problems worse and slow down progress just at the time when we need to accelerate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat is why ACT proposes practical and sensible solutions for building New Zealand and conserving nature. We released this policy last week to give hope to young New Zealanders and the people who build New Zealand that we can be better, when New Zealanders are free to make the best possible use of their property and our shared environment so we can live our best lives. ACT believes we can improve biodiversity by incentivising landowners to carry out private conservation rather than imposing blanket planning rules on private land. By adopting environmental limits and allowing water users to trade water in a market-based system, fresh water can be more fairly allocated to the environment and for people. Where more water is needed to respond to climate change, ACT would make building water storage a permitted activity under a new environmental protection Act. A new Urban Development Act would encourage vibrant, mixed-use communities with cafes, corner stores, and childcare centres a permitted activity you can build as of right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ELandowners who see benefits in building up would be able to vote to increase development potential above existing council limits. ACT believes that only people directly affected by development should have the right to object, and rather than spending years in Environment Court begging for consents, a planning disputes tribunal would be a much fairer way to determine compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to infrastructure, New Zealand has fallen far behind countries we like to compare ourselves to. ACT believes the fairest way to fund infrastructure and to build it faster and to get more built is a user-pays system. Road pricing is much fairer than fuel taxes and would provide a dedicated funding stream for transport network operators. Smart networks in the US and Singapore actually price road use by the minute. That\u2019s how we manage down demand in other countries and provide reliable journey times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EACT believes Kiwis and especially young people should have hope as we head into Christmas and 2023. There will be a change of Government next year and, with ACT playing a major role, a real change in the way we build our cities and conserve nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00229bf373bb3bdd467fbb1e9c7af5d7391b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bf373bb3bdd467fbb1e9c7af5d7391b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has charted a steady ship through the choppy waters of the pandemic. And now as we emerge from the emergency phase of the pandemic, we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to continue our strengthening of our health system to build a modern and high quality system that cares for people. We know the problems with our health system; they have been well traversed in this House. It was not fair for everyone; in fact, you might say that 15 percent of our population was not thought of in its planning. It was fragmented, it was complex, its institutions were unsustainable, they were perpetually burdened by debt. Healthcare had become dependent on where you lived, there were multiple DHBs in which critical specialties like dermatology were just unavailable to people. People who did need to be sent to tertiary referral centres were tracked with a complex series of payments between DHBs that meant clinicians couldn\u2019t make effective and fast decisions in order to look after people. It was not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThis Government, led by my colleague Minister Andrew Little, has been changing it. This has been a long hard piece of work to create a more equitable system, but we are making excellent progress, re-orientating the entire systems towards Pae Ora - Healthy Futures for all. We are doing this because all people, all wh\u0101nau, and all communities should be supported to achieve good health and wellbeing. It\u2019s the biggest change to health in a generation. We have created Te Whatu Ora, a national entity that can drive consistency of access across the country. We have a New Zealand health plan that outlines priorities for investment. Finally, the health system can think ahead of one-year cycles and we can tackle the big problems that have plagued our health system for too long. We have had no systematic workforce planning because we couldn\u2019t think beyond the one-year cycle. DHBs were not able to set planning beyond their annual one-year budget cycle\u2014we\u2019re moving that out to two- and three-year cycles so that we can address the underlying problems that have stopped New Zealanders from realising the good health that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EFor too long, M\u0101ori had been denied a seat at the table in terms of health decision-making. We are changing that. We\u2019ve created a M\u0101ori Health Authority and iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards. And yes, while we have brought to the centre the planning and delivery and addressing of our health infrastructure and our health planning, we are creating greater opportunities for local engagement through the localities prototypes, where communities do get to work with health and social services providers to make sure that everyone gets the care they need. I\u2019ve been particularly proud to be able to re-orientate our system towards prevention. That\u2019s why we\u2019re bringing our smokefree bill through the House as well, and we\u2019ve been investing properly in women\u2019s health screening and making tremendous progress there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ETransformational change does not happen overnight, but we have been courageous and determined in addressing the big issues around resourcing and inequities. We have looked at the infrastructure that supports our health system, be that digital or be that buildings. We have turned around the fact that the party opposite for two years did not fund capital investment at all in our health system, starving our health system of the ability to care for a growing population. Our health system needs choice and quality services, and this Government is seeing to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ESo when New Zealanders head to the polls, they should know that a vote for the Opposition is a vote that puts their health services at risk. It\u2019s clear that the National Party\u2019s plan is tax cuts for the highest earning New Zealanders, and that means massive cuts to health and other social services. It does not add up. We have ambitious goals of making New Zealand smokefree, of ending HIV transmission, of ending hepatitis C. A vote for the Opposition puts that at risk. Some 31,000 children in healthier homes\u2014a vote for the Opposition puts that at risk. The DECIDE abortion service for telehealth abortion\u2014a vote for the Opposition puts that at risk. Our reforms are ongoing and we will chart our way through difficult economic times to make sure that we continue to provide New Zealanders with the services that they need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00221170cf376f1e41a1a15014b4d6732e07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221170cf376f1e41a1a15014b4d6732e07\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E After five years of this Government, this Labour Government is in total disarray. They\u2019re tired, they\u2019re divided, they\u2019re arrogant, and they\u2019re out of ideas. The Prime Minister will be coming up at the end of January, and she\u2019ll be turning up and announcing the election date for next year. I\u2019d advise her to announce it for February so that the country can get on with it and get back and have a Government that knows how to actually implement things, rather than just to stand and announce and think that the announcement of spending is all that\u2019s required, because that\u2019s what this Government seems to believe and what Jacinda Ardern seems to believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo if we start with the entrenchment debate, I mean it\u2019s an extraordinary set of circumstances. We have David Parker pointing out and making sure that we\u2019re fully aware of the Cabinet note which said that Cabinet decided not to entrench the three-waters bill. The Government had been thinking about it because they know the three-waters legislation is unpopular. People don\u2019t like it and they don\u2019t want it. They don\u2019t believe that putting everything together in one big monopoly, like the Unitecs and like the hospitals, is going to lead to better outcomes. They don\u2019t believe it, and so they\u2019re not liking it. They don\u2019t like the co-governance provisions. They believe that all New Zealanders should have an equal say in who affects them and what their decisions are about water and basic things like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t like the co-governance, so the Government wanted to entrench part of the legislation. Cabinet disagreed, and then, lo and behold, it gets in front of the Parliament and the Minister of Local Government, Nanaia Mahuta, slips it through with the Greens. They kept their heads down quietly for a little while, and then Duncan Webb said, when they were caught out\u2014they were caught out, and then they panicked for a little bit. Duncan Webb said, \u201CI was just following the Labour caucus\u2019s orders.\u201D\u2014so what does that mean? So Cabinet had decided no, Duncan Webb says that the caucus had said, \u201CYes, let\u2019s do it.\u201D, Nanaia Mahuta says nothing, the Prime Minister says, \u201CIt\u2019s nothing to do with me. Oh yes, we made a mistake.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe only mistake that they made was that a political mistake that they got caught. That was the only mistake they made\u2014they got caught. They slipped it through, hoped that nobody would notice, and now they\u2019ve undone it. So that doesn\u2019t convince people that they know what they\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe problem is that, actually, it does matter if the Government is coherent and predictable and capable. It does matter to a country, and New Zealanders look and they think that they have no idea where things are going, and when it comes to the issues of the constitution, they\u2019re rightly concerned. They\u2019re rightly concerned that this is a Government that no longer believes in equal voting rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a fairly fundamental issue that most New Zealanders would be concerned about, but in terms of local government, or the Canterbury bill, they\u2019ve done away with equal voting rights. The same Minister\u2014Mahuta\u2014is keen to extend that provision right across local government, and once they\u2019ve gone through local government, they\u2019ll probably go into central government, and all of a sudden we\u2019re in a country that no longer believes in equal voting rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo people are suspicious around the constitutional tinkering, and when the Government of the day tries to entrench its legislation so that future Governments can\u2019t have a different policy and can\u2019t go to the electorate and say, \u201CActually, we don\u2019t agree with three waters. We don\u2019t support it and we want to change it.\u201D\u2014it now tries to meddle with it so that future Governments can\u2019t do their job. What a disgrace, and it shows what a divided Government it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we have Michael Wood\u2014Michael Wood bringing pork-barrel politics from Mt Roskill\u2014trying to write to local Labour Party members of Parliament and saying, \u201CWhy don\u2019t you come up with some ideas for new bus stops and bus lanes?\u201D, but he doesn\u2019t write to anybody else. He doesn\u2019t write to the ACT MPs and he doesn\u2019t write to the National MPs, but he\u2019s only concerned with his own. Then he stands up and says, \u201CYou can be sure I wouldn\u2019t engage in any untoward businesses.\u201D Well, he\u2019s been caught red-handed with pork-barrel politics, and he should be thrown out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got Willie Jackson\u2014Willie Jackson. Willie Jackson goes on the TV and says, \u201CI believe in media independence.\u201D, and then says, \u201CBut I also believe in my right to attempt to bully a journalist live on TV and to try and get him to shut up and leave me alone because he\u2019s being too mean.\u201D So I think that he\u2019s sent a slightly conflicting message on that one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec54a9263794e8e9b29b657c205d4f1\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, you\u2019ve got 45 more seconds\u2014go hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dac1e8cd6a984ff2869e9a3a6b585700\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and there he goes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208bdc5a108554d81987effa943640750\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What did Nash do? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a29c1b94ff45228080d3f3d32de5f2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t know what Nash did. What did he do, but he looks like Max Bradford to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESurprisingly, you\u2019ve got the Minister responsible for this $300 million merger of Radio New Zealand and TVNZ that nobody\u2014I have yet to meet anybody, including the Minister, who understands what the point of it all is. Nobody understands it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got a Prime Minister saying that Radio New Zealand is going to go down the gurgler unless we do something, but then she is reminded that, actually, taxpayers fund Radio New Zealand. They\u2019re not going to go down the gurgler. You can\u2019t possibly go down the gurgler when the taxpayer is funding you, so it doesn\u2019t matter. So that was a bizarre twist earlier in the week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, when we finally come to\u2014oh my goodness, I\u2019ve run out of time. But this Government is soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002236bab6d4f4e349cb9df0329182779736\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236bab6d4f4e349cb9df0329182779736\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise as the local MP for Palmerston North and make a contribution in today\u2019s general debate. And can I just say that the previous contribution from the previous member, Paul Goldsmith, was nothing more than a time filler. It was a good example of all talk, no substance, no plans, no good news to share on that side of the House\u2014no good news full stop. On this side of the House we are far from that. We are full of good news, full of excitement, reared up and ready to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI am proud to be part of a strong and stable Government that is absolutely delivering for my community of Palmerston North. There is no easy fix for the cost of living, but we are taking a range of actions to relieve the pressure. And when I reflect on the steps and actions that this Government have taken, I think about that short-term cost of living payment that benefits so many people in my community of Palmerston North. I think about the winter energy payment\u2014the continuation, the active and deliberate decision of this Government to continue that through winter, through tough times, through cold months, to support people in my electorate. I think of the work that Dr David Clark is leading in terms of tackling the monopoly that supermarkets have in this country to provide equitable and easier access to food items and the rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we recently took the next step, which is providing support to a majority of Kiwi families from 1 April next year by opening up the eligibility for subsidised childcare support. More than 50 percent of wh\u0101nau with children will be eligible. And when I reflect on what that means for my community, it means that M\u0101ori and Pasifika women will just clear another barrier that is in their way to provide equitable and equity assistance for them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI reflect on the last couple of weeks\u2014actually, the last week. On Friday, I spent time visiting a couple of kindergartens in my electorate\u2014Somerset and T\u0101koro kindergartens\u2014and I spent time with the teaching staff, with the support staff, and with the tamariki as well, to learn about what it means for them, the various aspects of my community and the support. And I want to acknowledge that they\u2019re doing in that early childhood education and kindergarten space. But also, just on Monday, I spent time at Cloverlea Primary School, talking with the principal and the staff\u2014a great school\u2014[Interruption] Thank you, Ms Boyack\u2014talking about and seeing the investment that this Government has made in infrastructure: their school investment package, the Astroturf, the new teaching and learning spaces, making a difference for classrooms that have been underfunded for significant periods of time, for members on the opposite of the House. We\u2019re not about that here\u2014we are prepared to front up with the resource to support our teachers, to support schools, to support communities to deliver for their wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI also spent time visiting Palmerston North Girls\u2019 High School in the last few weeks and then, on Friday, visiting Freyberg High School, looking at their healthy lunches in schools programme. In between visiting T\u0101koro Kindergarten and Freyberg, I stopped into Ellesmere Crescent to see two-bedroom homes for K\u0101inga Ora that have been built in my city, in my electorate\u2014in over 20 years. Those folk on the Opposition benches were far more focused on hocking off, selling K\u0101inga Ora State houses than building anything in my electorate\u2014an absolutely shameful indictment on the actions of previous Governments. You can\u2019t shy away from that. Members cannot shy away from the fact that if I think of Palmerston North, for the first time in many, many years, we are building warm, dry, secure homes for wh\u0101naus and families. So it was a pleasure to be able to see what they were doing in that particular space as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate some young folk in my electorate\u2014those members of the Amanaki STEM Academy for their success. They were celebrating that over the weekend. I\u2019m proud of the fact that this is a Government, in Labour, that has invested in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) programmes, has provided resourcing, has provided funding to tackle the support of innovation, of science, of technology, of engineering, of mathematics. You know, that is such a rich area of expertise and resource and I\u2019m proud of the fact that I\u2019m part of a Government and part of a Labour team that is investing in the future of our community, investing in the future of Palmerston North. I\u2019m also proud of the fact that we are continuing to invest in apprenticeships. We heard Minister Little talk about the fact that we have had huge numbers of apprenticeships up and down the country. I reflect on the two-bedroom houses that K\u0101inga Ora had built in my city. They were actually developed and built and constructed by WelTec, and I know that that\u2019s another example of apprenticeships working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo I am proud to be part of a stable, strong Government in Labour that is delivering for communities up and down the country and in particular it is delivering for the people of Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220e95ee4a5d284bfa90835acfcba4c2de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e95ee4a5d284bfa90835acfcba4c2de\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the next call is to the M\u0101ori Paati. The M\u0101ori Paati are not present. What I intend to do is go straight to the next speaker. It means there will be a spare slot. I\u2019ll invite each party to give me a name of a member who they would like to fill the No. 12 slot and I will choose a member. So if you can just approach me with a name on a piece of paper, it will be a surprise to one in four members in the House. In the meantime, can we go to Angela Roberts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e45d3a7690854c6e8a01e0586c40338e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e45d3a7690854c6e8a01e0586c40338e\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s been wonderful hearing from my colleagues about the significant investment in our people and our economy and our future\u2014health, education, the list goes on. But wait, there\u2019s more. Despite all of the challenges that we have faced as a country in recent years and, actually, the challenges that face us today\u2014cost of living, rising interest rates\u2014we have sustained a strong and stable economy. And what this means is that we have been able to ensure that not only are we surviving but we have the space and, actually, business has the confidence to invest in people, and research and development, and to build a future that is a wonderful one for our people. Our response: not just more jobs but more training and more apprenticeships; not just record exports but more and better free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAs our Prime Minister and Kiwi exporters went out and reconnected across the world with markets\u2014Japan, Singapore, the United States, and Australia\u2014we see the demand for what we have to offer. It\u2019s a really, really great place for us to be. The test\u2014we know in economics\u2014is about the strength of an economy, and is the confidence that businesses have to invest in their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWhen we went to Fieldays last week, it was great because we could see on the ground the results of that significant investment\u2014the partnering that this Government has done to make sure that our food and fibre sector and our exports remain the best in the world. And there were so many\u2014I just want to pick a couple. Let\u2019s just stick to Taranaki for now, shall we? So I was really excited to see the announcement last week of the partnership between Fonterra and Nestl\u00E9\u2014as they go down to Taranaki, the wonderful Whanganui electorate of Steph Lewis\u2014and the project that they\u2019ve got about making a commercially viable net-zero carbon emissions dairy farm. It\u2019s great to speak to young leaders like Jason Rolfe, who runs the demonstration farm down there, and the excitement about making sure that we are best placed to lead the world in milk. They\u2019re going to be working really hard to make sure that this project is about being good for the farmer, good for the cow, and good for the milk as well. And so if you\u2019re ever in South Taranaki, which I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll all be doing your best to do, you need to go down and hear more about it. It\u2019s a really exciting, global, leading project that we\u2019re happy to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThe other project that I think that is really great\u2014another one that came through at Fieldays\u2014was the continuation of partnership with Venture Taranaki and the businesses that they are supporting around Taranaki to ensure a just transition for our land use, diversification, sustainability, and a bright future for our farmers and growers in Taranaki. So right back in 2020, we supported Venture Taranaki with an amazing project called Branching Out. You know, what else can you grow in Taranaki besides grass for cows? Well, apparently there\u2019s a lot, and it was really great to see the announcement this week of an additional $975,000 for phase two of this project. So for those of you who like a little gin, we are doing our best to make sure that Taranaki becomes a great place to grow our botanicals. Hemp fibre, which we know has so many uses\u2014from building and construction to medicinal uses. Again, this is something that\u2019s being invested in to ensure that we don\u2019t just talk about it but actually we have action, and it means that we are ready to not just weather the storm that has been predicted globally as far as economies go, but we are ready to really drive into it with confidence and make sure that we are really well prepared to continue to be world-class exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESustainable land use: we know our farmers really want their children to be confident and proud farmers in the future, and that\u2019s what this will deliver. I\u2019m really pleased to be able to reflect on the action this Government takes for our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022b698fb5f40134d279a631e32faf3eb11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b698fb5f40134d279a631e32faf3eb11\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t know which Fieldays that member was at last week, but there weren\u2019t that many people oozing with confidence, there weren\u2019t that many people who were talking about Labour\u2019s strong economic management and how excited they were about the future, and there definitely weren\u2019t many people who were interested in or excited about their interest rates doubling thanks to the cost of living crisis that this Government has overseen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll tell you who is the hardest hit with the cost of living crisis, and that is those who are on low and fixed incomes. And so I want to look at some of the causes of the cost of living crisis, and we know there are multiple; but if we look at domestic inflation alone, what is one of the biggest drivers? It is the labour shortage. Combine a labour shortage\u2014where there are businesses everywhere desperate for staff\u2014with ineffective welfare policies and you\u2019ve got a recipe for disaster. So it\u2019s the labour shortages that are constraining the economy right now. Auckland Airport are talking about shortages over Christmas, delays over Christmas, because they\u2019ve got 1,600 vacancies they can\u2019t fill. There are 30,000 vacancies in hospitality; 20,000 in construction\u2014but how many people are on the job seeker benefit? It\u2019s 170,000, and 104,000 who have been on the job seeker benefit for more than a year, so they\u2019re long-term. So why is it that we have these two things happening? I\u2019ll say it again: a contributing factor to the cost of living crisis is labour shortages and ineffective welfare policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo let me give you some local examples about how that is impacting businesses and how they are definitely not excited about a strong and growing economy. Hotels and motels in my electorate in Taup\u014D have a \u201Cno vacancy\u201D sign out during the week. That\u2019s not because they are full; that is because they cannot find enough staff to turn their rooms over during the week. So these are not skilled jobs that we are talking about. Cafes that used to open seven days are now open four days, or five, because they don\u2019t have enough staff. So how many job seekers are on the job seeker benefit in Taup\u014D? Over 1,200. And when I held \u201CInto Work\u201D workshops recently, there were a lot of service organisations who were very prepared and able to support job seekers who had a few challenges\u2014because we know some do. But guess what! They weren\u2019t being referred, they weren\u2019t being connected; there are businesses desperate for workers\u2014oh, but then I get an email yesterday from a father who is really concerned about his young person, his son, who\u2019s been on the unemployment benefit for a couple of years with next to nil follow up from Work and Income. He was really worried about his son being left to rot on welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThat is why National has been very clear about our \u201CWelfare that works\u201D policy, because we are not willing to accept high numbers of young people, when now, under Labour, a young person who goes on to a benefit under the age of 20 will spend 19.7 years on welfare; nearly twice their age on welfare\u2014oh, they\u2019re pretty quiet now\u2014they don\u2019t like that, because that is a figure that\u2019s come out of their own department\u201419.7 years is an absolute disgrace when there are businesses everywhere today looking for staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll come back to the cost of living crisis, and it is hurting low and middle income New Zealanders; it\u2019s hurting those on fixed incomes the most, and that includes those on benefits. So let\u2019s look at the Prime Minister\u2019s pet project of child poverty. There are one in five children being raised today in a benefit-dependant home; 35,000 more than five years ago. So when Ardern promised, in 2017, to lift 100,000 children out of poverty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bf8f07dd6d4425ba4976c0a6a62768a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could we use full names or titles, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb0a4e2f1554257bf422a314a6cd03a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: When Jacinda Ardern promised, in 2017, to lift 100,000 children out of poverty\u2014guess what! There are more now than there were then. Yet another broken promise. So Merry Christmas to the children who are living in poverty this Christmas, because they have a Prime Minister who has abandoned them\u2014who has overseen a cost of living crisis\u2014and their lives are going to get harder, not better, and they\u2019re destined to a life on welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022a63fc0b22cf8478d8ae4623a9594a664\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a63fc0b22cf8478d8ae4623a9594a664\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call in this general debate today. I want to speak about the stability that Labour Governments bring to South Auckland, and the economic prosperity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb31f5663707439b93cc5b48c647758c\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re dreaming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ba6aaea75a4f888dab8ed950ddb25a\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that those Governments bring. Let me give you an example; in the global financial crisis which members opposite who are heckling me now oversaw, 15 percent of M\u0101ori lost their jobs. If you look like me, if you\u2019re a M\u0101ori woman, it was 25 percent, and if you lived where I do in South Auckland it was even more; it was almost 30 percent. You find three M\u0101ori women who were my age in the global financial crisis that that Government oversaw, one of them would have been out of a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, in August, in a far deeper crisis that this Government has overseen, M\u0101ori unemployment is at record lows. That didn\u2019t happen by mistake; that happened because this Government made choices which kept our people in work. It meant stability for South Auckland households who would have otherwise borne the brunt of the economic impacts of a global pandemic. It meant that people have remained in work. It means that people have been able to balance their household budgets at the end of the week. It means that families will be able to invite each other over for Christmas. It means that in February when mums think about buying the stationery and the school uniforms, they will be able to do that. It\u2019s a very real impact for South Auckland and it\u2019s one that this Government has made choices to implement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to talk about what\u2019s at stake in the election for those families. Labour has promised to make childcare more affordable for families and that means choices for families in South Auckland. It reverses the freeze on the income thresholds that National implemented in 2010. We\u2019re fixing that by extending the subsidy to 10,000 additional children. That means if you\u2019re a family with two parents and, say, 40 hours each, and you\u2019re on $26, say, and you have two children under five, like mine\u2014well, mine has turned five recently; happy birthday, Tem. But if you have two children who are not in school you would not be eligible for the subsidy at the moment, but we\u2019re changing that, and from April next year you will be eligible for $252 per week. That\u2019s a really big change. It gives families choices, it gives women choices, and it\u2019s a big deal for the South Auckland economy because when that member talks about workforce shortages we\u2019re talking about teachers, women in healthcare roles like nurses and aged-care workers\u2014exactly the kind of people in South Auckland who look like me, who make choices about whether they can afford to have their toddlers in childcare or whether they cannot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you an example. When I had my first baby we set up a playgroup with a lot of mums, and I want to shout out to them today, people like Carla, Tamara, Ash, Caroline, Harshna, Isabelle, both of the Megans, and Mel. These were women who were all faced with a choice of paying between $300 and $500 in our area for full-time childcare per child, or going back to work. And if you were on $26 an hour and working 40 hours a week, you would be earning about $760 after tax. That doesn\u2019t add up. In fact, if you have two children at childcare at one of the cheapest centres in that area, you would be paying for the privilege to work because of the choices that the Government made. When you value work and when you value women\u2019s contribution to work\u2014when you are committed to giving women choices to work\u2014you don\u2019t make those trade-offs, and it was a trade-off made in 2010 when that Government extended tax cuts to the wealthiest New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI am proud to be a part of this Government which is giving stability to an economy in South Auckland which would have borne the brunt of the global pandemic, and I\u2019m proud to be a part of a Government that is giving women choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b81d35a21f2f48c990eddda57118cb5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b81d35a21f2f48c990eddda57118cb5a\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d have said a prayer if I could remember it before I started this speech. And having listened to the last speaker, Arena Williams, I\u2019d like to remind her that if she looks like me and she\u2019s got one of these [Holds up a SuperGold card], she ain\u2019t too well off under this Government. Ha, ha! In fact, I don\u2019t recall having had any rise with one of these. And, Mr Speaker, I\u2019m not going to bring you into this, because I realise you\u2019re not far from it. Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI came today to speak about an issue that I think is of extreme concern to New Zealand. And I want to speak briefly, before I get on to the topic, about the emissions trading scheme (ETS) and the challenges that we\u2019re facing with respect to climate change, with respect to the environment, and with respect to agriculture in New Zealand. And I want to again urge the Government\u2014and I\u2019ve done this before and I\u2019m not going to make any excuses for previous Governments of New Zealand, but I think it\u2019s most important that we get some consensus around these issues, because right now, aside from all the other challenges that we face as a country, the challenge that I think will have the most effect on our future relates to the way we deal with the emissions trading scheme, the way we deal with the environmental challenges that our agriculture sector and other sectors in New Zealand face. And if we don\u2019t get some consensus around this, I think we\u2019re going to get into some serious trouble long term, not only with the economy but with our population as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think we\u2019re seeing some trends in New Zealand right now as a result of\u2014and I\u2019m fully supportive of the ETS and the way we go about these things; I\u2019m just not supportive of some of the outcomes we\u2019re achieving at the moment. We need to pay attention to this very quickly. And it\u2019s going to need a consensus across this Parliament to achieve this. I\u2019d urge the Government to talk to all parties in this Parliament about changes that might be required to achieve some of the outcomes we need to achieve with respect to where we\u2019re going in the future. We don\u2019t want to make decisions now that long term have a serious impact on our ability to both produce food and make a living as a country, and also perhaps negatively impact on what we\u2019re trying to achieve with respect to climate change initiatives and our environmental challenges that we face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut having said that, what I want to address today is an issue that I think is seriously impacting applicants wishing to register native and exotic plantations in the ETS. And I\u2019ll quote some facts on this. On Tuesday, 18 October, the Ministry for Primary Industries sent out an email which said, \u201CApplications to register native and exotic forests in the ETS after 25 October 2022 are highly unlikely to be processed in 2022. Applications received after this date would be registered in 2023.\u201D Now, that sounds fine, except that there were 1,271 applications outstanding at that time, and those 1,271 applications as a result of that decision don\u2019t qualify to enter the ETS until the next five-year span.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo what, effectively, happens is that we registered in a five-year mandatory emissions return period, and because they missed that date, they get pushed into the next emissions return period, costing those 1,271 applicants a significant amount of carbon units, costing the country, actually, the potential for any of those carbon units that might have been traded to have been part of the solution to the emissions trading scheme. It is a serious issue for New Zealand, it\u2019s a very serious issue for those foresters concerned with this, and I think it\u2019s unacceptable that Government departments who know these walls of work are coming at them\u2014they\u2019ve had five or six years to prepare for this\u2014are unable to handle it when the rush comes. And it\u2019s certainly unacceptable from New Zealand\u2019s perspective, and it\u2019s unacceptable for those applicants who are awaiting approval or to enter the emissions trading scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo to return to the issue that I started with\u2014and we\u2019ve pushed legislation through this House at a great rate, and I\u2019m not being any more critical of this Government than I am of previous Governments, because we\u2019ve looked at this whole emissions trading scheme and we\u2019ve looked at the environmental challenges we face as an industry, and we\u2019ve never collectively got a solid way forward. Right now I think there are two bills related to the emissions trading scheme in the Parliament right as we speak. There are numerous items out there for consultation. None of it has been clearly dealt with, and the way forward isn\u2019t always clearly known. So I urge the Government to get this sorted out. I urge them to take all parties into discussion as to where we go in the future. I think it\u2019s one of the most important issues facing the future of New Zealand. There are plenty of current issues, but this is an issue that might not have a real impact for 20-odd years. And if we don\u2019t get this right, it\u2019s going to seriously impact on our ability as a country to go where we want to go in the future. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd5e35997674e8fb7bdf60cbd092e01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd5e35997674e8fb7bdf60cbd092e01\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Emily Henderson. Can I indicate that the last speaker, if it is not taken by another party, will be by Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u002287f8b292430b40ddb8318f73e56bdfcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287f8b292430b40ddb8318f73e56bdfcd\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. As I\u2019ve been listening to the debate today, I\u2019ve been reflecting on the fact that we live in scary and unstable times\u2014when you look overseas. When you look to the horizon, the waves are pretty big, and you cannot ignore the fact that we are a pretty small boat on this very big ocean\u2014and the storm is coming in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t achieve stability, however\u2014if you\u2019re any kind of sailor, even a very small boat sailor, you know you don\u2019t achieve stability by staying still. You achieve stability by putting in the effort to keep moving, and that has been the policy of this Government through all the successive crises-tsunamis that we have faced over the last five years. You don\u2019t achieve stability for our people\u2014the sort of stability that Arena Williams was talking about a minute ago, with her mum friends back in Manurewa, where my mum grew up\u2014you don\u2019t achieve the stability they need to be able to buy their kids Christmas presents or put food on their table by standing still. This Government doesn\u2019t stand still.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThere is, of course, another way to look at stability, so let\u2019s do a little compare and contrast. There is stability by putting in the work to keep yourselves stable, to keep moving, to keep balance. But there\u2019s another sort, because stability can also mean stasis. It can mean being frozen, say, oh I don\u2019t know, like those benefit levels that, again, Ms Williams was talking about, or perhaps those dental grant levels that Minister Sepuloni spoke about earlier that have stayed stuck since 1996, and what huge injustice that did to our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s take, at random\u2014you know, purely at random\u2014say, the freezing of Government investment in, I don\u2019t know, health infrastructure, say for, oh, I don\u2019t know, two years, perhaps, say, oh, let\u2019s take it at random, 2015 to 2016. You know, it\u2019s terribly stable, of course, doing nothing, but the actual impacts are profound instability. If you don\u2019t stably\u2014if you stably refuse to\u2014invest in, oh I don\u2019t know, let\u2019s take an example, Whang\u0101rei Hospital, for example, the impact is literal instability. I\u2019m talking cracks in walls, I\u2019m talking leaks in ceilings, I\u2019m talking windows that actually fall out of surgeries during surgery, or\u2014in a recent celebrated example\u2014I\u2019m talking pipes that burst and literally shower excrement down hospital walls. That sort of stability is what was offered by the previous National Government in Whang\u0101rei. It literally meant my community watching its hospital falling apart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAnd while the previous Government stood still, Whang\u0101rei did not. We grew; we are one of the most fast-growing areas in the country. We continued to be deprived. We continued to suffer the impacts of a lack of investment in the basics that any society should be given. It was the stability of no new ideas, no answers, no solutions; a plan, now we hear, that consists of reversing virtually every forward-stabilising step this Government is taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut, therefore, it was wonderful to stand in Whang\u0101rei not long ago with Minister Little and confirm that we are going to be funding stage one of the new hospital: an acute services building, a child health unit, and an emergency department (ED) that is going to be three times the present size, aimed at what we\u2019re going to need for 2040 at least. Compare this to the current ED\u2014cracks in the walls, low ceilings, can\u2019t put a respiratory system in place because the ceilings are too low, oh yeah, and did I mention the leaks?\u2014which is only 40 percent of what it should be. We\u2019ve confirmed a $759 million investment. And then, because there is always more, we are a Ginsu-knives Government: we have committed to $200-plus million to build ourselves another 159 beds in a new ward tower. Now, that equates not just to the stability that my community is going to need for its own health; it also equates to a steady supply of work in these unstable times, with more than 500 jobs anticipated. I know my local contractors are already saying, \u201CThat. That\u2019s the stability we need. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to lead us through.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s stability that is investing wisely or there\u2019s stasis and drift to disaster in our little boat of New Zealand. I know which one I seriously suggest New Zealanders choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00226b3d338f4f364027bd19a9b51e137d05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b3d338f4f364027bd19a9b51e137d05\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Inflation and economic doom and gloom have been in the headlines and it\u2019s not surprising if people are feeling worried and anxious about their future. The Reserve Bank recently admitted that it is engineering a recession in the misguided belief that it\u2019s necessary to reduce the rising cost of living. Some bank economists in New Zealand have said we need 50,000 or more people\u2014workers\u2014to lose their jobs in order to combat inflation, and yet it\u2019s totally unfair to ask those on the front lines or those who are on low incomes to suffer even more to stop inflation when they have been the ones who are suffering from the high cost of living in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf we look overseas, we see a lot of economists suggesting there is an alternative approach. Even the World Bank has said countries should be focused on increasing production, not reducing demand. It is not clear how making those who are the most vulnerable in our communities struggle to make ends meet even more is going to help boost production. As Elizabeth Warren recently said, \u201CDo you know what\u2019s worse than high prices and a strong economy? It\u2019s high prices and millions of people out of work.\u201D In the New Zealand context, that is tens of thousands more people out of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, more than ever, we need to change the system that is leaving too many people insecure and unable to afford the basics while a tiny a number of people are amassing personal fortunes. We can have an economy that works for ordinary people, not against them. But for the last few decades, economic orthodoxy has increased inequality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat does that look like in Aotearoa New Zealand? It\u2019s the wealthiest 10 percent owning over 60 percent of the assets while the poorest half, 50 percent of New Zealanders, own only 2 percent. It is generations of entrenched poverty, starting with child poverty, resulting in lifelong inequality, not just of income and wealth but of health outcomes. Ultimately, it\u2019s a huge cost to all of us. It looks like front-line workers struggling to make ends meet as rents rise, living in cold, damp, unhealthy homes, if they don\u2019t live in cars; and essential workers, who made sure the rest of us could eat and get healthcare during a pandemic, being paid a minimum wage, maybe working multiple jobs, having to choose between heating their crappy rental to a healthy temperature or putting food on the table, and potentially being laid off in the coming year in order to combat inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, the Fletcher Building chief executive made over $6,580,000 last year. The leader of the National Party in his final year as chief executive for Air New Zealand made over $4 million in one year. The four largest banks, all almost entirely foreign owned, are now making record profits, and they\u2019re returning the lion\u2019s share of that to overseas shareholders. What happens when interest rates rise? Ordinary people have to pay more for the mortgage, rents keep going up, and the banks\u2019 profit margin on the interest rate increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, the bank CEOs\u2019 pay looks modest compared to the Fletcher chief executive or Mr Luxon at Air New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s only between $1 million and $2 million a year in the past year. But it would take workers on a median hourly wage just over 25 years\u2014that\u2019s quarter of a century\u2014to earn what the big bank chief executives got paid just last year. So that\u2019s median hourly earnings: $29.66 an hour, just over $61,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the same with the big power companies and the gentailers. They\u2019re returning huge dividends to shareholders rather than investing in renewable electricity that would bring down prices, and they\u2019re paying their chief executives enormous salaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, things don\u2019t have to be like this\u2014things don\u2019t have to be like this. We don\u2019t have to put up with the same old tired excuses. Right now, inflation rules the headlines, we\u2019re hearing that next year\u2019s going to be a tough year\u2014but not for everyone. A small number of wealthy people have made a killing. Supermarkets, banks, and petrol and power companies have raked in billions in excess profit while millions struggle to cope with the rising cost of living. It doesn\u2019t have to be that way. It\u2019s time to rip up the failed playbook. It\u2019s time for a guaranteed minimum income, free public transport, rent controls\u2014we can\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfa0c6e008e84c73b2c8134495c571b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfa0c6e008e84c73b2c8134495c571b1\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to take the final call in this general debate this afternoon. And how timely it is to be able to take a call when tomorrow at 9 a.m., the Government are going to table and take us through the third reading\u2014the third and final reading\u2014of the Water Services Entities Bill, \u201Cthree waters\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhat a saga. What a saga that has led us to the point in which tomorrow, this House will go through a period and debate a bill that has failed from the start. Today in the House, we had the answers to questions which were categorical in regards to whether there was an understanding around a Cabinet minute that was undertaken by Government on 30 May. That Cabinet minute said, \u201CThe bill should not entrench the privatisation provisions in the bill.\u201D It was referring to the Water Services Entities Bill. And the Prime Minister particularly noted today in the House that the Minister has not acted against the instructions of Cabinet. Well, well, well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EHow do you reconcile those two statements? I ask: how do you reconcile those two statements? Because the Cabinet minute says, \u201CThe bill should not entrench the privatisation provisions in the bill.\u201D That\u2019s quite specific, right? I don\u2019t think that\u2019s too unclear, it\u2019s not too murky\u2014it\u2019s pretty black and white.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo how did the bill go from the committee of the whole House stage back to the House with a privatisation entrenchment provision within it? And that did not breach the Cabinet instructions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5160ff87ba4c00baae0c9d001e652b\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: I know, I know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221072ae674c89426baacea84f20b555fe\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, call me old-fashioned, Andrew Bayly\u2014normally a simple man from the Waikato, originally. You know, I don\u2019t know. Maybe I\u2019m just drawing a little bit too much into that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut Kiwis can see through that. And that side of the House is sitting silent. They\u2019re sitting with their heads down because they know\u2014they know\u2014that tricky business is at play here. Tricky business at play, and not everyone can be right in regards to the statements that have been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut tomorrow morning, we will go through the third reading of this bill and we will articulate and feed back the concerns and issues and huge amount of feedback that came from across this country\u2014more than 88,000 people made submissions in regard to this bill. This is a bill that\u2019s one of the most controversial bills that has been in this House in the past two years that I\u2019ve been a member of Parliament; a bill that is wholeheartedly opposed by hard-working Kiwis across this country, because at its core, this bill confiscates assets that should be retained and maintained in local ownership. It centralises assets; it\u2019s mega entities, which have no democratic accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd we have seen that the Minister, under urgency, has attempted to put in an entrenchment clause into that legislation which goes to the heart of attacking our democracy. That is completely unprecedented. Never in the history of this House has a Government attempted to put an entrenchment provision in for public policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut the reality is recorded in history. The reality is recorded and this Government have said they made a mistake. But a \u201Cmistake\u201D assumes that you didn\u2019t know what was going on. I think, as has been articulated by the Cabinet minute that was very clear around the entrenchment provision and the fact that there was no support for that entrenchment of the privatisation submission, then something else is at play here. And I think at the end of the day, Kiwis will be judged on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETomorrow, National will reinforce our position that when we are in Government, we will repeal three waters and we will repeal the Water Services Entities Bill. And that is because that is what this country is calling for and what this country deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddc9ffb676b042b2aac37a6fa31ba5e0\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4a823ccd6394c3cbbc7bfedd172153d\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Extended Sitting Motion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9f049413d714e1b85aa91563b567941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9f049413d714e1b85aa91563b567941\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when the vote was announced on the extended sitting, it was incorrectly announced as 73 in favour and 40 against. The correct vote was 76 in favour and 40 against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022238ebb806c1a4cb5909d2a08c85c0da7\u0022\u003EThomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcbdd3887bad492382495fd28e61f6c9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002200fd36d4d66d4a678914427c3b075111\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200fd36d4d66d4a678914427c3b075111\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege to be a member of the Cawthron Institute Trust Board, as the MP for Nelson, and to bring this private bill to Parliament. My interest as one of the statutory trustees is hereby disclosed, including the proposal that all members of the trust board have their personal liability limited and indemnified by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt has been quite a journey bringing this private bill to the House and I am pleased we are finally here. I want to place on record my thanks to a number of people who have helped bring this bill to fruition. My thanks to my fellow trustees, to chair John Palmer, Sarah-Jane Weir, and Harvey Ruru for being the driving forces behind the introduction of this bill. Thank you to Cawthron Trust secretary Elizabeth Bean for keeping us all on task throughout the process. To the exceptional team in the Clerk\u2019s Office and the Parliamentary Counsel Office, thank you for your wise advice to ensure we were compliant with the many Standing Orders that govern the introduction of a private bill. And finally, thank you to Cawthron lawyer David McLay for his patience and perseverance in getting the bill to this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere is a high bar for bringing a private bill to Parliament, which is as it should be. There needs to be a very strong rationale for private organisation to use the time of the House for its private purposes. Throughout my contribution, I will explain why a private bill is needed to achieve the objects of the bill instead of seeking a judgment through the High Court. The purposes of the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill are to provide for the appointment of a member of the trust board nominated by Te Tau Ihu iwi, and to clearly articulate the objects of the trust board and to specify the legal liability of the trust board members and update and modernise the governance arrangements of the trust board. In addition, there was a change made to the existing Act by the Trusts Act 2019 that was inconsistent with a previous High Court judgment. The Bill will correct this error. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut before I address the bill in some detail, I wish to provide some historical background. The Cawthron Institute is New Zealand\u2019s largest independent science and research institute and has operated for over 100 years. It plays a special role in the life of Nelsonians in Aotearoa New Zealand and on the world stage. Cawthron Institute is a taonga and a jewel in the Crown of the Te Tau Ihu top of the South region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe Cawthron Institute is named after its benefactor, Thomas Cawthron, a name that has resounded in Nelson for over a century. Cawthron was one of New Zealand\u2019s earliest philanthropists and a pioneering businessman. His contributions have had a lasting impact on Aotearoa and the city of Nelson. Born in London in 1833, Cawthron lived in Nelson from 1849. He recognised the importance of enriching life with music and beauty, as demonstrated by his donations to the Nelson School of Music, Nelson\u2019s public hospital, the chains on Rocks Road, and his gift of the granite steps leading to Nelson\u2019s iconic Christ Church Cathedral. After his death in 1915, Cawthron\u2019s will provided for \u00A3230,000\u2014about $127 million in today\u2019s terms\u2014to establish an industrial and technical school, institute, and museum to be called the Cawthron Institute. Cawthron envisioned an education institute that would address the problems facing our agricultural industries in order to further our country\u2019s economic, social, and environmental development. Cawthron\u2019s will was made while he was in London in 1902 and resulted in the need for clarification of his bequest by scientific advisory committee by the then Supreme Court in 1919, and ultimately by way of the Thomas Cawthron Trust Act 1924. It wasn\u2019t long before the institute, guided by some of the country\u2019s leading scientists, gained a strong reputation for providing the research needed to support New Zealand\u2019s primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday, Cawthron is one of New Zealand\u2019s most significant scientific organisations. Not a year goes by without reports in both mainstream and scientific media in Aotearoa and overseas, highlighting progress made by the small yet world-class scientific community. In recent years, Cawthron\u2019s research focus has been on aquaculture, seafood safety, ocean and freshwater health, algae and bioactives, and food testing. The institute is currently investigating the potential of the native red seaweed Asparagopsis to reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions. The seaweed has already been proven in trials overseas to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in livestock by up to 80 percent. Cawthron has recently partnered with Westpac, Port Nelson, and forestry company OneFortyOne to launch a national seagrass restoration project that aims to fight climate change and improve ecosystem health. Cawthron is also part of an international collaboration with Boston Children\u2019s Hospital to develop the world\u2019s first algae-based local anaesthetic using shellfish toxin: neosaxitoxin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ELast year, the Cawthron Institute celebrated its centenary, albeit with the impediment of COVID. I was proud as the MP for Nelson to mark the occasion here at Parliament and pay tribute to this world-class Nelson institution. One hundred years of Cawthron can be attributed to the many people who have worked for, guided, and supported the institution through its ups and downs, and is testimony to the pioneering vision of Thomas Cawthron.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow, to the bill. Clause 5 of this bill is the first key provision. It will inject an objects clause that states the charitable objects of the trust board. The clause represents the objects set out in the will of Thomas Cawthron and the judgment of the then Supreme Court in 1919. The proposed wording is that the objects: \u201Care the advancement of science to benefit Te Tauihu and Aotearoa New Zealand, with a focus on natural resources.\u201D Clause 5 also contains an interpretation provision proposed section 2B that includes definitions of \u201CTe Tauihu Iwi Bodies\u201D and \u201CTe Tauihu Iwi Chairs Forum\u201D. Clause 6 will then provide for the appointment of \u201Cthe Te Tauihu Iwi member by the Te Tauihu Iwi Chairs Forum, acting on behalf of Te Tauihu Iwi Bodies.\u201D These two clauses will ensure that local iwi can appoint a statutory trustee to join the four existing trustees: the MP for Nelson, Mayor of Nelson, Mayor of Tasman, and Anglican Bishop of Nelson. Some might say that this could be achieved by way of an application to the High Court. However, that would not be honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi as the Te Tau Ihu iwi member would not then be one of the statutory trustees identified in the Thomas Cawthron Trust Act 1924. In order to create a statutory trustee, the Act must be amended, and this is what this private bill seeks to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EPrior to the introduction of this bill, our trust board chair, John Palmer, has spent significant time engaging with local iwi to ensure they are supportive of the changes we are making to the bill. It is clear that Thomas Cawthron\u2019s intention was for local community leaders to have governance oversight of the institute in order to ensure its charitable status for the good of the people of the region was maintained. The trust board is of a clear mind that adding a statutory trustee nominated by iwi is in keeping with the will and intention of Thomas Cawthron.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI now wish to highlight the recent High Court orders made under the Charitable Trusts Act 1957 by what that Act terms a \u201Ccharitable scheme\u201D. In February 2003, High Court orders were made by Justice Wild that included an order that section 17 be deleted and replaced. Further orders were made in 2011. Those orders affect the trust instrument but have not been recorded in legislation. The Trusts Act 2019, the amended section of the Act rather than the Act, was changed by the court orders. In essence, the amendments to the Thomas Cawthron Act via the Trusts Act gave some of the responsibilities that the trust\u2019s board had passed to the institute\u2019s commercial board of directors through the 2003 High Court judgment back to the trust board. The trust board was not consulted, and the error was made that needs reversing. As I have already said, that error cannot be amended again by the High Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe last main change is that the liability of the trustees ought to be limited in a manner that is permitted by the Trusts Act, rather than the trustees having completely unlimited liability. This change is contained in clause 12 of the bill that will enact a new section 17A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI thank everyone for their work in getting the bill to this stage. I am confident that members here will support this bill through to select committee where it can receive careful consideration. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8610ba0956f4d4a89100bf7e8444f9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8610ba0956f4d4a89100bf7e8444f9b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022db4a3b2616714eca8a5e696d47825d39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db4a3b2616714eca8a5e696d47825d39\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill in 2022. The bill has been brought to the House on behalf of the Thomas Cawthron Trust by the member for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, who\u2019s also a statutory trustee and I\u2019ll get into that part of it in a little while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t often get private bills through Parliament, so it\u2019s quite interesting, and it will be very interesting to see it go to the select committee. Unfortunately, it\u2019s not coming to the best select committee in the House; I understand it\u2019s going elsewhere, and I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing speaking on it, but I\u2019m here\u2014because I really only speak on things that concern the Governance and Administration Committee, the best select committee in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223112a002830a453999014b7e86c3436d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps by popular demand, Mr McKelvie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227563b3f4b3d24b68b88d1d50a3692d65\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. When one visits Nelson, one immediately knows you\u2019re in a place that\u2019s different than just about anywhere else in New Zealand. I\u2019m not going to comment on the quality of it, but it certainly is a nice place to go to. But the thing that\u2019s so different about Nelson is that once you get past the apples, the wine, the grapes, the hops, and a little bit of dairy and sheep, you get to a lot of forestry and a lot of fishing\u2014both topics that I\u2019ve had interests in in my time in the House, and both very fascinating things. Certainly, Nelson was the largest fishing town\u2014or port or city\u2014in New Zealand and contains branches of all the largest fishing companies in New Zealand and certainly is the home base to at least two of those large fishing companies. It has by far the largest fishing fleet in New Zealand, and it\u2019s a very important industry to Nelson\u2014and I\u2019ll tell you what that\u2019s got to do with the Cawthron Trust in a minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EA little down the road, one comes across a very special entity, the Cawthron Institute. The Cawthron Institute, as the previous speaker, Rachel Boyack, said, was started as a result of what can only be described as an extraordinarily generous gift by a benefactor of some \u00A3230,000. Now, there\u2019s not many of us in the House that can remember pounds; I can. I\u2019m not saying you can, Mr Speaker, but I can. And I could tell you that\u2019s a lot of money, and that was in the year, I think, round about 1905 or something like that. It was an awful lot of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae68b8caaea4f4c95ba5c0ccf284d5d\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: What was that like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb0cf8edcd9449c9381d7508826388b\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t remember that. None the less, the Cawthron Institute is a very special entity, and it was formed as a result of that gift. It was formed, really, to, I guess, help the New Zealand agriculture industry at the time and to provide scientific backing to that industry. But, of course, Nelson\u2019s changed a lot since then, and the institute has certainly changed its emphasis too to be much more concerned with things that are connected to the Nelson community and to the Nelson population. Now, it spends a lot of its time addressing issues related to the oceans, to fishing, to the vast seafood industry that includes the salmon industry and the mussel industry. And, particularly, Cawthron\u2019s had a great impact on the mussel industry over the years with their research into spat and things like that, so they\u2019ve had a very significant impact in the community that they operate in. The Cawthron Institute employs some 300 scientists, and it\u2019s really quite interesting when you look through the list of them. There\u2019s a lot of scientists there\u2014and I don\u2019t know whether scientists get paid better than MPs; they probably do\u2014so they would add a significant amount to the Nelson economy, those scientists that are employed in Nelson. No doubt there are some employed elsewhere in the country and the world as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo it is a very significant organisation for Nelson, and to bring a bill to the House to change an entity that has been around for over 100 years and to change it in a manner that maintains its relevance today is pretty important. One of the things that really interests me about this, reading through the notes that we were provided by Rachel, is that it has a statutory board effectively set up. It\u2019s probably quite unusual in New Zealand, now, to have a board set up for a start with an Anglican bishop on it\u2014sorry, Mr Speaker\u2014but it also has the Mayor of Nelson, the local MP, and it has community leaders on that board. And whilst that trust board operates the trust, it doesn\u2019t operate the business of Cawthron, I don\u2019t imagine, for a minute. None the less, it sets the parameters for the CEO, and the CEO and the board operate the Cawthron Institute from there and direct what it does. So it\u2019s probably a very stable organisation and set up very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd so the bills come to the House, effectively, to change some of those things that, after a hundred years, clearly need changing. And as the previous speaker said, some of those issues have been created by rulings of the courts over the years, and I think it\u2019s typical of New Zealand and, I suppose, our penchant for trusts, because there are an awful lot of trust in New Zealand and many of them date quite quickly\u2014in spite of the fact that we think they\u2019re going to see us out. And so the fact that they date means they need to be resurrected and altered quite frequently. And so what this bill sets out to do is to modernise some of those issues, to ensure the stability of the Cawthron Trust, to ensure the trustees are protected within the role they\u2019re expected to do, and also to appoint a new trustee from the Te Tauihu iwi. That just adds, I guess, another statutory trustee and gives them a place on that trust. And I understand that the chairman, John Palmer, has spent a lot of time making sure that that negotiation is satisfactory and that it works well for both parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd as I said before, it contains the MP for Nelson, the Mayor of Nelson, the Mayor of the Tasman District, and the Anglican Bishop of Nelson. And I think a previous Mayor of the Tasman District may also be on the board of the entity itself. So it is an interesting organisation. It\u2019s an interesting thing that we\u2019ve got to bring a private bill to Parliament to alter it. But, I think, when you see the magnitude of that organisation and the contribution it makes to New Zealand as well, it\u2019s well worth this Parliament\u2019s time, investigating further through the select committee process where it gets to and ensuring that this bill goes back in the form that both the trust, the community, and the Parliament want it to be presented back in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t resist the opportunity to talk very briefly about, I suppose, the establishment that, I think, succeeded Cawthron as an agricultural institute in New Zealand and provided the research and development for agriculture, of course, which is in the Rangit\u012Bkei electorate in the Massey University. And Massey University, of course, is a very important part of our agricultural and productive sector in New Zealand as we speak today. That was one of the reasons that Thomas Cawthron set this institute up, of course. It was to do the things that are now to some extent carried out by other entities in New Zealand. But they have found not quite a niche, because they\u2019re pretty broadly spread and they\u2019re even into growing such things as algae for many, many years, trying to find ways of growing algae in a more efficient manner, because algae historically has been a pretty inefficient\u2014well, we\u2019d imagine it\u2019s inefficient because you need such a vast lot of water and such a vast lot of sunlight, and, of course, Nelson would tell you they have sunlight, but we have sunlight in the Manawat\u016B too. Even in Wellington, there\u2019s sunlight. But you need a lot of sunlight and a lot of water to grow algae effectively, and it\u2019s, I suppose, an onerous process. They are going through that process and they\u2019re looking at alternative forms of that, and, of course, some of those\u2014[Baby cries] Point of order, Mr Speaker. I didn\u2019t know I had that effect on people!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7290069dd64b28a1844f49dd490e60\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It aroused some in the House, Mr McKelvie!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223507fd31f2db496b8ad7e718a15cbeeb\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously not everyone\u2019s asleep. So I suppose I\u2019ve probably got almost to the end of where I wanted to be, but I just want to talk about one or two other Nelson entities that Cawthron has a significant impact on: one of those being King Salmon. When you look around the world, the salmon industry around the world is moving at a great pace. We have some challenges in New Zealand with it because we\u2019re, I guess, a little more challenged as to where we can locate these things from an environmental perspective. But, certainly, that company has benefited from research done by Cawthron. It certainly looks around the world for opportunity, and, again, the fishing industry as a whole, and the industries that Cawthron service, really rely on us having a decent set of environmental laws that enable people to do what they want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, from the National Party\u2019s perspective, we totally support it. We\u2019d be very interested to see where it gets to in the select committee. It\u2019s a shame it\u2019s not coming to a good select committee, but, none the less, they\u2019ll manage it well, I\u2019m sure. And that\u2019s probably my lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00221fb272df4b3643118605efb64990eb64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fb272df4b3643118605efb64990eb64\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak in support of the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill. Can I firstly acknowledge the member in charge of the bill, the wonderful MP for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, who is also a statutory trustee on the Cawthron Institute Trust Board. I thank her for her work in bringing this bill to the House and also working very closely with her fellow trust board members and wider stakeholders and advisers. I believe this a private bill, which is quite rare for this House. So Rachel has now successfully brought a member\u2019s bill through Parliament and now she\u2019s bringing a private bill, and, to top the trifecta off, I guess all that awaits is a local bill. So a very effective MP for Nelson and I want to acknowledge her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a really important bill. As has been mentioned, the Cawthron Institute is a taonga, is a jewel in the Nelson, top of the South region. I particularly want to acknowledge, among all of the amendments that are being made to modernise the operations and the workings of the trust, the inclusion of the iwi of Te Tau Ihu o Te Waka-a-M\u0101ui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ENow, for those folks who don\u2019t know, Te Tau Ihu means \u201CThe prow of the canoe\u201D Te Waka-a-M\u0101ui. So Te Tau Ihu is a special name and it encompasses the eight iwi of Te Tau Ihu. If the House would indulge me, I\u2019d like to mention all of those iwi who now have a direct route through the Te Tauihu Iwi Chairs Forum to be able to appoint a representative on to this esteemed organisation. They are: Rangit\u0101ne o Wairau Settlement Trust, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Kuia Trust, Ng\u0101ti Apa ki te R\u0101 T\u014D Trust, Te R\u016Bnanga o Toa Rangatira Incorporated, Te P\u0101taka a Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data, Ng\u0101ti R\u0101rua Settlement Trust, Ng\u0101ti Tama ki Te Waipounamu Trust, and Te \u0100tiawa o Te Waka-a-M\u0101ui Trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI know that this is a private entity, this is a private organisation, but it has deep roots into the community, it has a very proud history of over a hundred years, and to be able to have that direct connection now with the iwi of Te Tau Ihu is a wonderful action on behalf of the trust board. I especially endorse these elements of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s more to it, because the Cawthron Institute is a world-class scientific organisation and the work that they do has helped lift the productivity and the profitability for our world-class industries and, in particular, in recent years, our agriculture industry, and our seafood industries. But also it goes beyond that: shellfish farming, finfish farming, and seaweed farming. And also a range of other areas: algae and bioactives, freshwater health, ocean health, and seafood safety\u2014all of these are critical aspects in the supply chain, in product production, and also in the export and, ultimately, the trade of our goods, which is so vital for our nation but also our regions, especially the top of the South region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo I want to commend the work that the Cawthron Institute does. In addition to the work about strengthening connections with iwi, the Cawthron Institute has a M\u0101ori team, Te K\u0101hui \u0100io, and they are doing great work building connections with M\u0101ori across all of the different work areas that they are involved in. It\u2019s really important that research that affects M\u0101ori also benefits them, and that is a key part of what that team does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo this is a really welcome bill. I am so pleased that we are able to modernise and update the key documents that will help the Cawthron Trust continue its great work. I want to acknowledge all those involved once again, including the member in charge, Rachel Boyack, and I commend the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee in their task ahead. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00222f97b11f25d9442ab59cb78a9067f31b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f97b11f25d9442ab59cb78a9067f31b\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. The Green Party is pleased to support the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill. I congratulate Rachel Boyack and everyone in the Parliamentary Counsel Office and the Cawthron Institute for all of the work that they have done in developing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m grateful to the Cawthron Institute, because I came face to face with a scampi there. One of the many aquaculture research projects that the institute has done involves being the first agency in the world to captive-rear scampi, which are a species of clawed lobster. They live in deep waters. We\u2019ve got species that are endemic to Aotearoa. They\u2019re quite a substantial fishery in the Southern Ocean, but the Cawthron Institute\u2019s work here was aiming to establish captive-rearing so that scampi could be taken at peak condition and avoid pressure on the wild fishery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs Rino Tirikatene has noted, the institute works across a range of sectors to benefit primary industries in Aotearoa, particularly in fresh water, in aquaculture, and their base at Nelson and their research facilities on the Boulder Bank does enable and make sure that they\u2019re close to a really diverse community of interests in Nelson and Marlborough, particularly in the aquaculture space. There are more than 300 staff and I noted, too, that they\u2019ve got quite a programme of having guest workers where they invite others from other institutes and universities to come in and do research for a period of time, and that helps encourage collaboration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is important particularly because of the provision not just for modernising the principal Act but also for enabling Te Tau Ihu to appoint a statutory trustee to Te Tau Ihu\u2019s chairs forum, to appoint that statutory trustee to join the Mayor of Nelson, the MP for Nelson\u2014in this case, Rachel Boyack working alongside the Hon Dr Nick Smith in his new role on the trust board. That representation for Te Tau Ihu is really important because of the increasing work which the Cawthron Institute is doing in terms of Te Ao M\u0101ori and Te Ao P\u0101keh\u0101 perspectives on issues like aquaculture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EJust some of their research projects: I discovered something called oxygen nanotechnology, which involves small bubbles of oxygen seeking to trap nutrients in the sediment of some of our eutrophic lakes. And it was the New Zealand M\u0101ori Centre for Research Excellence, Ng\u0101 Pae o te M\u0101ramatanga, which commissioned the Cawthron Institute to do this research to look at how we could have other techniques other than geoengineering some of these polystyrene rafts that are being put into lakes to absorb nutrients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnd another really interesting project, which again provided that bridge between Te Ao M\u0101ori and Te Ao P\u0101keh\u0101 and m\u0101ramatanga and just the M\u0101ori knowledge and more traditional knowledge, was looking at the impacts of trout and people\u2019s different views around trout in our rivers and lakes in Aotearoa. Of course, Fish \u0026amp; Game has done a lot with trout advocacy, which is aimed at improving river water quality, lake water quality, and getting water conservation orders. Others perceive trout\u2014as T\u0101 Tipene O\u2019Regan called them, opossums of our rivers\u2014as a pest. So it\u2019s how do we get some shared objectives here, and the Cawthron Institute\u2019s research was looking at where is there a shared goal: restoring native fish habitat, removing trout where rare species are threatened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill, in modernising the work of the trust board and providing for more diverse representation, ensuring that there is a strong representative there for Te Tau Ihu iwi, will take the institute further and build on its very good work, particularly across our water spaces and the work that its staff and the board do. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022088f7a6694be4fbf9039c939057e9ede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022088f7a6694be4fbf9039c939057e9ede\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise as probably one of the first members of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014a great select committee\u2014and as its deputy chairperson to say a huge thankyou to the member for Nelson, my good colleague Rachel Boyack, for sending this bill to our select committee. We will look after it well and I\u2019m sure that there will be lots and lots of great conversations had about this wonderful institute as we pass this bill, and it\u2019s great to hear that there has been support garnered from both sides of the House as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI think\u2014I\u2019m just looking at the Order Paper really quickly\u2014that there will be a bit of a theme of good governance coming through this afternoon, with lots and lots of great members from this side from electorates who are doing their thing for their communities, and this one is no exception. The Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill is looking at strengthening the constitution and, therefore, the statutory arrangements for this organisation in terms of their board and in terms of clearly articulating the objects of the institute and making sure that we have a good governance structure that honours Te Tiriti, and making sure that we have that iwi representation on that board as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI often say that governance is not an end in itself, or good governance or the practice of good governance, but the practice of good governance is the guardianship of the entity or the business organisation which we try to guard and make sure that it goes further on to do better things than what it was established for. Throughout today\u2019s debate, members will have heard many, many things mentioned about the good work of the Cawthron Institute. For me, some of the things have actually been like what happened on my research trip to Australia, where we sat down in a meeting with the Aussies, and I\u2019m trying to think\u2014I know my good colleague here is now trying to think, as well. We had a conversation about farming and agriculture, and the minute that Rachel Boyack mentioned Asparagopsis, the Aussies across the table\u2014their eyes lit up and they knew exactly what we were talking about. They knew that this was a Kiwi technology and innovation from the Cawthron Institute. So we really know that this institute is exporting technology ideas throughout the world, but it is also helping as we try and tackle climate change and our farting cows, as well, by lowering those emissions through, obviously, the algae which we could feed to animals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EBut upon a deeper dive into the organisation, I do know that this is a wonderful organisation as well. One of the statistics that I was particularly pleasantly surprised by was the diversity of its staff. I think my good colleague Mr Ian McKelvie had already mentioned that it employs a huge workforce and the precise numbers\u2014actually, I\u2019m just about to say that it\u2019s around 300 people. So over 300 people are employed in Nelson by the Cawthron Institute, and they are lots and lots of high-level or high-paying jobs as well, but they range from 35 different countries. So you will see a lot of diversity at the Cawthron Institute\u2014people from China, Poland, the United States, France, Fiji, Australia, Germany, Sri Lanka, England, Italy, and many, many, many more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWhen we see that diversity and bring that expertise into New Zealand, the fact that these people, who are leaders in our science community, actually want to come and work in New Zealand and want to contribute to tackling some of the bigger problems that we\u2019re facing at this moment through science and innovation, I think that this institute is one that we must protect and we must support as well, and support we have. The Government has given many different funds and grants to this institute so that they can continue their research, and I know that my colleagues will pick up on that point later on as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWhen we look at gender diversity, we often know that girls are under-represented in STEM subjects. However, at the Cawthron Institute, over 53 percent of their staff are female, 1 percent is gender-diverse, and 46 percent are male. So we\u2019ve got not only a great balance but an overrepresentation, you could almost say, of our female scientists and innovators at Cawthron. As well, they have this very young workforce, where the majority of their workforce is aged between 30 and 39, with that being one of the average age groups of those working there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EThis has been a great employer within the great city and district of Nelson, with a great MP that represents that area and who is bringing this bill to this House. So, on behalf of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, we look forward to shepherding this bill through the House, and we welcome all of the submitters and welcome engaging with you in the select committee process, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u002279ffcdb470a0465ba574c5dc9760317f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279ffcdb470a0465ba574c5dc9760317f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure also to rise on behalf of ACT to take a call on the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill, a name which I\u2019ve been familiar with all my life, and, unfortunately, I won\u2019t be in the select committee that it gets sent to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EEvery day, I\u2019d have to walk past Cawthron Crescent on my way to and from primary school. The Cawthron Institute was always this mysterious, big, old building in town that, as kids, we weren\u2019t sure what exactly went on inside, we just knew that it was good stuff that was coming out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThomas Cawthron, as was mentioned before, arrived in New Zealand when he was very young, aged 15, and went off\u2014took off\u2014when he was young, went over to Wellington and then over to Victoria to make some money. He came back when he was 22. When he was 23, he was involved in developing a copper mine on Dun Mountain in central Nelson and coalmining at Enner Glynn. I went to Enner Glynn School and Enner Glynn valley is just up the road. We used to spend a lot of time up there. He also developed financial skills, lending money to workmates. He was interested in Port Nelson, as well, over the coming years. He had a considerable skill as a trader, particularly in coal from Australia, but it was through his wide-ranging investments from 1960 in property, in mortgages, etc., that he made his fortune.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EHe was 32 when he started really spreading his wealth around: relief funds; church organisations; the Rocks Road chains, which are quite a feature still today; cathedral steps; and the Nelson School of Music, which was mentioned before. So he was quite a character. But the Cawthron Institute is how he will be remembered and, as Rachel Boyack mentioned earlier on, his will was drawn up in London, where bequeathed all of that money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EHe had a hard start to life. His mother died when he was 12 years of age, and he went to a charity school in London. Through hard work and ability, he became a successful and charitable man. It is really awful to think that if he was around today, his success would be condemned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe Thomas Cawthron Trust Act 1924 is a pretty substantial piece of legislation and has been amended a couple of times over the last 98 years. The Act explains pretty much everything you need to know: who makes up the board; what the board\u2019s responsibilities and expectations are; what happens when a position becomes vacant; when meetings are; what contracts they\u2019re allowed to do; additional powers, like borrowing money, lending money etc.; a guarantee to have put in balance sheets; and section 17 talks about remuneration of the board up to $6,000\u2014I\u2019m not sure whether I missed something because the preamble of the amendment says there was no remuneration, so I\u2019m not sure about that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThen we get to the amendment bill, which, you sort of wonder if everything seems to be covered\u2014the direction and all of those things. We wonder what the point is. There are four main objectives: clearly articulate the objects of the trust board and the powers conferred, which is pretty obvious; appointment of a member from the Te Tau Ihu iwi; specify the legal liability of the members of the trust board, which absolutely makes sense; and to modernise the governance arrangements, and from what I can read, that means changing it from board to trust board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe Cawthron Institute has been a fantastic asset to Nelson and New Zealand for 98 years. Some of the stated objects make sense, we won\u2019t be supporting the bill. The board don\u2019t need to be directed to achieve the social and cultural benefits that the current CEO has mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to end with a quote from Thomas Cawthron\u2014it reminds me of the Labour Party\u2014after he bequeathed all his money, he said to his sister\u2019s friend Maria, \u201Cif the said Minnie Palmer gets married or has sexual intercourse with any man then this last payment shall \u2026 cease for ever\u201D, which reminded me of the current entrenchment clause. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022031e921d0a0546b1b3ede753c378e967\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022031e921d0a0546b1b3ede753c378e967\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand here and support this private bill brought to us this afternoon by the MP for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, and, again, being the follow-on from my colleague Naisi Chen, being another member of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740fe429588347fcad46ab56a4d6207c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can you mention the rest of the caucus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585d97f537dc450dbb66f69dd2ba9802\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll work our way through over the next five minutes. So it\u2019s a pleasure, I think, to bring this to our committee, although we\u2019re a very busy, hard-working committee so it\u2019s going to be a long summer without a break. But that\u2019s OK because this is important work to be done. The Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill is something that is needed, something that the trustees themselves have worked on and are all in agreeance that this must be done and needs to be done. And so it\u2019s disappointing to have the previous speaker, Chris Baillie, who has a wonderful, articulate history of growing up around this institute, and then choosing at the last moment to not support this piece of legislation. But that\u2019s OK because it\u2019s good to have the rest of the House backing what this is all about and what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I was thinking about philanthropy as I was listening, which is something that I know does get thrown around occasionally, but not as much as it used to. And to think, more than 100 years ago, of this this man and this property, to actually be gifted, then the act of philanthropy is significant and something that I hope and would wish that\u2014maybe through the course of select committees, through the course of the readings\u2014people consider what it means to gift and to pass things on for future generations. Because as we\u2019ve heard around the House this afternoon, the impact that this institute has, the impact that the research has, is generational, has been going for more than 100 years, or almost 100 years, and will continue to keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhen I look at philanthropy, it\u2019s obviously about promoting the welfare of others. It\u2019s around being generous in terms of whether it be giving money, giving land, giving goods for the betterment of our communities and for good causes. And so it is nice to be sitting here and reading a bit about Thomas Cawthron and the history that he brings and the fact that 100 years later we\u2019re not only talking about him and his legacy but we\u2019re talking about the innovation and the wonderful things that this institute and the act of philanthropy has done, not only for Nelson, not only for New Zealand, but for the rest of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to look at what they\u2019re all about. It\u2019s interesting to see that they are New Zealand\u2019s largest independent science organisation based in the little old Nelson. I know they\u2019re sort of the centre of the universe, or centre of New Zealand or something like that, they\u2019re up the hill of Nelson, but it is a lovely place. I visited there once; it was OK. I\u2019ve been there several times, actually. But I was curious as I was looking at the achievements and the work that is done through the trust and the institute, and, you know, we look at our climate change lens in 2022, we look at our challenges within our environment, and, I think, 100 years ago they were discussing these things and they were looking at world-class research and science innovation; how do they grow the primary industries and how do they protect the marine and freshwater environment around New Zealand and the world. And the fact that it\u2019s around producing research\u2014around aquaculture, around seafood safety, algae, bioactivities, freshwater health, and ocean health\u2014it is a good thing. And so that\u2019s why it is great that we can, as a House, have this legislation, this private bill here that we can take through and ensure that the trust is set for another 100 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EYou know, when it was created back in 1924, they were different times. So to tighten the parameters in this piece, to also add iwi, which, again, all members of the current trust board wanted and have fought for, and I\u2019m grateful that they have done that\u2014I mean, you have a bishop there, you have a mayor or two there, you have an MP; so it\u2019s only right to ensure that we have iwi at the table bringing their experience and history. And, as for Thomas Cawthron and the legacy and the good ancestor he is, it\u2019s great to know that we have iwi at the table, as we move forward, because there\u2019s another hundred years or more of this institute to go and there\u2019s more innovation, and I am grateful to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022814fff0aff6a49a881ba5e5e6cc141ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022814fff0aff6a49a881ba5e5e6cc141ae\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m just going to come right out and say it: Asparagopsis and neosaxitoxin. I will circle back around and explain, but there was a suggestion earlier today that if someone was to inculcate those two words into their contributions, they would earn a chocolate fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251945603f846405ba9fcdaee8c00d33d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take your word that they are parliamentary terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218da7f620c67493bb2bd30d181ff332b\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: They are parliamentary terms. And, later on, I will attempt to use them in a sentence just to shore up that chocolate fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EBut in all seriousness, it is a pleasure to take a call and make a contribution on the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill at its first reading. I too, like many people, would like to commend my colleague the MP for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, for shepherding this bill through, and also acknowledge the fact that it will be the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee who will be no doubt providing a huge amount of rigour at looking at this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWhen I think about everything I know about the Cawthron Trust itself, I have to acknowledge the fact that I\u2019ve had to do a little bit of research. And it\u2019s not for the lack of bravado or the lack of promotion that the local MP has given it, because it would be probably an exaggeration to say that she goes on and on and on about this particular trust, but she does mention it quite frequently. And it has prompted several of us, I think, to make visits, several of us to attend presentations when they\u2019ve been here in Parliament, specifically to sort of catch up with what it is that they do. This particular bill and why we\u2019re here today is that we need to support what is, essentially, a functional private bill, and that\u2019s the reason that we\u2019re here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Glen Bennett has just said, it\u2019s a very straightforward way and a means by which to modernise the governance arrangements of the Cawthron Institute Trust Board and to allow for an additional trustee nominated by local iwi to join the trust board. In that sense, I think that we should follow not only the lead of the institution itself but certainly the lead of the people that advocate for that. And when we think about the Cawthron Institute, as we\u2019ve acknowledged, it\u2019s New Zealand\u2019s largest independent science organisation, as we\u2019ve heard on several occasions, not just today but over and over and over again, it\u2019s based in Nelson, it was established about 100 years ago, and it focuses on what can only be described as world-class science that supports the growth of New Zealand\u2019s primary industries and the protection of our marine and freshwater environments in particular. And it does that by concentrating its scientific research and its rigour and its main endeavours over five mains themes: and that\u2019s aquaculture, seafood safety, algae and bioactive, freshwater health, and also ocean health. As we\u2019ve also heard, Cawthron is one of Nelson\u2019s largest employers, with a workforce of around about 300 highly skilled staff from all over the world. I think my colleague Naisi Chen listed all of the countries that many of those people are from, which goes to show that there\u2019s a real understanding of the deep cultural significance of having a real melting pot of expertise and people, and that, no doubt, contributes to the fact that they want to make sure that their governance and relationships reflect a more modern way of thinking about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere are two things in particular that caught my mind when I looked up and did a bit of a Google search about what this particular institute does. And the first thing was that the Cawthron Institute\u2014there\u2019s a piece of media that says, \u201CKaimoana, but not as you know it\u201D, 16 November 2022. The Cawthron Institute has contributed to the development of what is called a \u201Cp\u0101ua saucisson\u201D\u2014I\u2019m going to call it that\u2014in collaboration with a company called NewFish. And it caught my attention because NewFish has created this high-end product which combines Akaroa kelp\u2014of course, Akaroa, being from the beautiful Banks Peninsula electorate, particularly caught my eye. And what they\u2019ve done is pretty fascinating and I certainly can\u2019t do it justice in the small amount of time I\u2019ve got to talk today. But I would really encourage people who are interested in science and who are interested in primary industries and the future of primary industries to go and to really research what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EBefore I finish, let me go back to Asparagopsis. Asparagopsis research\u2014and the only sentence I can put it in is that Asparagopsis research reduces methane emissions from cattle. I\u2019m sure someone will have a much more working knowledge of it than me, but it is one example of the pretty cool things that this institute does. So I have no hesitation to commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00228b20d968f0f4401795f95d9c29c20e75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b20d968f0f4401795f95d9c29c20e75\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E That description of Asparagopsis was said with such ratiocination, I have to say, so I commend that member for her diligent description. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBefore this bill was being discussed by Rachel Boyack in the Governance and Administration Committee sidelines, I\u2019d never heard of Cawthron\u2014and I feel a little bit embarrassed about that, given the journey that I\u2019ve gone on now to see quite how much they have contributed. My friend the Hon Gerry Brownlee tells me that lovers of mussels in this country have a lot to thank Cawthron for because of their research endeavours into that and many other seafoods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I want to touch on something that Glen Bennett\u2014accidentally, I think\u2014applauded, and that is the importance of private wealth, because this fantastic institution exists because of the generosity of a gentleman who donated the equivalent of $127 million in today\u2019s dollars for research. He didn\u2019t steal it; he gave it away. He earned it from his own endeavours, and then he became a benefactor for a very good cause. And I think there are a number of people in this House who risk demonising success\u2014clearly this gentleman was a very successful business person, and he turned those creative and entrepreneurial endeavours into generosity that this country benefits from over 100 years later. I think we owe a great debt to people like Mr Cawthron and many, many others, over the generations, who have made this country better for their generosity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo, in considering this bill, a very sensible bill that is appropriate\u2014it\u2019s not going to the Governance and Administration Committee, is it, Ms Boyack? It\u2019s going to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, and I\u2019m sure they\u2019ll give it due consideration. But let we not forget that enterprise, endeavour, entrepreneurialism, and professional success created the conditions for the benefit that we see over 100 years later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u002221f7e31bd19e46f9b29f7ecad6a3a752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f7e31bd19e46f9b29f7ecad6a3a752\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, kia ora. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill and I just want to thank the member for Nelson, the formidable member for Nelson with an extremely high work rate, for bringing this bill before the House and also for her work with the Cawthron Institute as a trustee on their board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThis private bill will make it easier for the Cawthron Institute to operate in a proper manner without needing High Court or parliamentary approval. It will clarify administrative and governance matters such as the responsibilities and powers of the board of directors and also remuneration. And this bill helps modernise the governance of the Cawthron Institute Trust Board so it is fit to continue its important work effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EA most important aspect of this bill for me is that it allows for additional representation of the iwi voice. Until now, the Thomas Cawthron Trust Act of 1924 only allowed the board to have three statutory members: the MP for Nelson, the Mayor of Nelson, and the Anglican Bishop of Nelson. To better represent and support the people of Nelson and New Zealand, it\u2019s important that local iwi can participate in structures like the Cawthron Institute, and, with this private bill, Te Tau Ihu iwi now have a seat on this board. This will be a huge benefit to the work of this leading science institution in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThe Cawthron Institute has been an important part of research and scientific progress in New Zealand history for more than 100 years now, and, since 1921, the institute has helped advance science to the benefit of all New Zealanders in many different fields, from agriculture and forestry to marine and freshwater systems. Recently, the member for Nelson and I, along with a couple of other colleagues, went and visited the Cawthron National Algae Centre to see some of the innovative research that they\u2019re doing, and it was absolutely fantastic, once we could figure out how to get into the gate\u2014we parked up there. It\u2019s a low-lying piece of real estate. It was actually devastated by the floods, so they had to do a lot of work and remediation to sort that out. But then we went and met some people in some white coats and they were so excited about the seaweed. I only thought there were really, you know, two types of seaweed, but, funnily enough, there\u2019s a whole lot of other different types, and they gave us the rundown on the different things and the different properties that these different bits of seaweed have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EAnd then also we got to see their salmon farm. They did a lot of research in the salmon space, so they can breed in warmer water and also deeper water, the help counter the effects of climate change. So the first stage of that centre was officially opened by the Prime Minister in May last year and we also were able to commit some funding\u2014$6 million worth out of the Provincial Growth Fund\u2014and Cawthron also contributed $2 million towards the centre. That centre will enable Cawthron researchers to build on their existing expertise to meet growing global demand for algae-based products and solutions. Seaweed\u2014you know, the cultivation, is one of the world\u2019s fastest growing in the aquaculture sector, with the global seaweed industry worth more than $6 billion per year. And there are many species that have the potential to be transformed into a range of commercial products, as well as offering environmental benefits to counteract climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThere are also other initiatives like the Cawthron New Zealand River Awards to celebrate the achievements of people committed to improving freshwater health and show the institute\u2019s contribution to the development of healthy ecosystems in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThis private bill will help the Cawthron Institute modernise its governance and proceed with its research to the highest international standards and advance science in New Zealand. So I look forward to the future contributions of the Cawthron Institute and I have no doubt that integrating m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and iwi voices will only strengthen it. I look forward to the work that the select committee will do on this bill and I look forward to how they will further integrate iwi and local voices into the structure of the Cawthron Institute Trust Board. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002253d39a12dd444638963ed9aafde95cff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253d39a12dd444638963ed9aafde95cff\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Boyack\u2014five minutes in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022c007263a5a724effb118d207e6f4fe78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c007263a5a724effb118d207e6f4fe78\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to have the opportunity to take five minutes to reply to my colleagues from across the House for what I think has been a really informative debate about the role of the Cawthron Institute and the importance of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just going to respond to some of the comments, and I\u2019d like to start with my colleague Michael Woodhouse, who made a very useful observation, at the beginning of his speech, that is very important, and very important to the trust board, which is that a lot people don\u2019t actually know about the work of Cawthron. It\u2019s a particular issue that we at the trust board discuss at every meeting: the importance of ensuring not only does the Nelson community know about the work that we do but that the people of Aotearoa New Zealand need to know. It\u2019s one of the reasons why, during the 100 years of Cawthron, I ensured we had a parliamentary function here so that my fellow parliamentarians could learn more about the incredible work of the Cawthron Institute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOn that note, I\u2019m really grateful to the number of MPs from across the House, and there are MPs certainly from the Labour Party, from the Green Party, and I know, in the past, from the National Party, who visit the Cawthron Institute\u2014they really enjoy having visitors. The most recent visitor I took through was the climate change Minister, James Shaw. They really enjoy having visitors. I would really encourage any member to reach out to me, as both the local MP and as a trustee, if they want to learn more about Cawthron or have a visit. And I\u2019m putting that invitation first out to my colleague Mr Baillie because you and I are both from Nelson, Mr Baillie, and, I must say, I am somewhat disappointed that ACT aren\u2019t supporting this bill through to first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of comments I want to make on that. The first is around your reference to remuneration. Actually, currently the trust board members can\u2019t be remunerated. The legislation has actually been updated since the legislation you referred to, and that explains exactly why we actually need a clean piece of legislation. We have multiple pieces of legislation. We had the Thomas Cawthron Trust Act made in error when it amended the principle Act, and we have two High Court judgments. So for those of us who sit around the governance table of Cawthron, for anybody seeking to interpret that for legal purposes, it\u2019s very important that we tidy this up because currently we\u2019re actually presenting a lot of legal risk to Cawthron. So we have met the test of the Standing Orders, as advised by the Clerk, to ensure that we can actually put this bill into the House. There is a very high threshold for having a private bill. So I am somewhat disappointed and would really welcome the opportunity to take Mr Baillie to a meeting with some fellow Cawthron trustees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI just want to respond to my colleague Mr McKelvie. I\u2019m very sorry that we\u2019re not sending this to the Governance and Administration Committee, the best committee in Parliament, but we are sending it to my new, second-best committee: the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. I note he made some very worthwhile contributions about the role of Cawthron\u2019s work in researching in primary industries. The original focus was very much focused on agriculture and horticulture. We still do a lot of that, but, in today\u2019s climate\u2014\u201Cclimate\u201D is probably the appropriate word\u2014a lot of the focus is now on aquaculture, on seafood, on oceans, on water, on climate change, and on soil research, which is incredibly important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo, as my colleague Dan Rosewarne noted, one of the organisations that we do research for is King Salmon, and some of that research has been very important. King\u00A0Salmon locally, in Nelson, has lost a lot of money because of fish death, because of warming waters. It\u2019s a very significant and serious issue for one of the largest companies in my electorate. So one of the things that Cawthron have been doing is stress testing particular genetic lines of salmon to see which ones can survive in warmer waters. It\u2019s important that we do that work so that King Salmon can continue to provide some of the best protein to the world and provide a large number of good quality jobs in Nelson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy last thanks is to my colleague Rino Tirikatene, who\u2019s worked closely with me on this bill. There\u2019s one particular piece that the select committee will need to look at, and that is the spelling of Te Tau Ihu. Te Tauihu Iwi Chairs want it to be two words, and I know there are some who would like three words. While it might seem like a small issue, it will be something important for the select committee to grapple with. I wish them well; I look forward to joining them at committee for considering the bill. Finally, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ded702f6d6c47918ea13a566207e783\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 104\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 30; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 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class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrooking R\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002227e605d1849e43968b7a50ba66429e35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e605d1849e43968b7a50ba66429e35\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e4e7b39289f40e0aae18651218c1ec7\u0022\u003ENew Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002245f6a48af494444e9918bdb109ddec4f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002233f6a16095f947118bf8c2804c67d903\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233f6a16095f947118bf8c2804c67d903\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I move, That the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill protects one of New Plymouth District\u2019s key financial assets: the Perpetual Investment Fund\u2014or as we locally call it, PIF, which I will refer to it as from now on. The protections in the bill ensure the perpetual nature of this fund continues for benefit of the New Plymouth district community into the future. This is about generational investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the New Plymouth District Council, particularly Mayor Neil Holdom and his team, who have brought this bill to Parliament today. I also want to acknowledge the people of the New Plymouth district, and thank those who have already engaged on this so that we can be here today in this first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the background of this bill shows why the council is asking that this Parliament puts in place a more sustainable legal arrangement for our PIF. The PIF was formed back in 2004\u2014I remember it well\u2014when the council sold off its share in Powerco. The initial value that we received was $259 million. The PIF was formed as a more diversified investment, with an active investment approach taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the global financial crisis of 2007-2008 hit the PIF hard, as it did many other large investment funds around the world. The value of the PIF decreased. However, the council of the day was concerned about maintaining the release, and it took from the PIF to subsidise rates to avoid a large shock to ratepayers. What this meant, though, was that the PIF continued to drop in its value. It was not until 2011 that the council began a programme to reduce the release to a more sustainable level without causing too great of a shock to ratepayers of New Plymouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the council finished its programme in 2015, and, in the following year, put in place a new governance model to a more sustainable management of the PIF. This included establishing the New Plymouth PIF Guardians Limited\u2014get my tongue around that one\u2014to set the investment principles around its annual release, rather than the council doing this. This insulates the PIF from direct political pressure, which is good. The council and the PIF Guardians also have a governance deed that clearly outlines their role. This governance deed is embedded through requiring a 75 percent majority vote by councillors in order to amend, terminate, or waiver it. This sets a high political threshold and requires a degree of political consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs history shows, New Plymouth District Council has had some hard lessons on how to ensure that PIF is used in a sustainable manner. The council has already put in place a range of measures for this, particularly with the PIF Guardian mode and model, which follows best practice. The PIF Guardians provide well-diversified investment strategy. The release to the council each year is set at a sustainable level and has been growing slowly. This financial year, the release was $10.4 million and will reduce the average residential rates by $163. However, the balance, as of 30 June 2020, was $339 million\u2014about $50 million below the inflation-adjusted opening balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhile the council has done what it can to protect the PIF, the council could only go so far on its own. The council has asked this Parliament to put in place a more enduring legal arrangement that will ensure the mahi will not be undone by a short-sighted future council. To do this, the bill will ensure that the council always considers the long-term nature of the PIF whenever it makes decisions. It ensures that the council is always seeking to maintain or increase the real value of the PIF\u2019s capital. While there is an exception provided for this, it is deliberately set high so that it only applies in things such as natural disasters or other crises, when sufficient funding may be required to rebuild the district.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the bill also has the exemption, which works alongside existing protections that the council has put in place. It does not replace the 75 percent majority requirement in council\u2019s standing orders to amend the PIF governance deed. Instead, it sets out a legal test that must meet before council can begin the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe bill also sets out some requirements for investment decisions that help to future embed the PIF as a long-term investment for the community. Investments need to be made independently from the elected council, just as things we have in this House\u2014such as the Superannuation Fund and ACC investments, which are made separately, independently\u2014so this will happen for our PIF in New Plymouth. Investment decisions will need to be made on a prudent commercial basis that maximises return without undue risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe council is also seeking a small exemption from the standard Local Government Act 2002 obligations so that the PIF can be invested into any listed airport or port within New Zealand without having to go through long-term plan processes. Now, this isn\u2019t around seeking a loophole for the council to purchase assets to gain control, because, as I said moments ago, the bill requires decisions to be made independently of the elected council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the future aspect of this bill, and looking further at this bill, is that it sets in stone that the PIF is only to be used for the benefit of the New Plymouth district community as it exists today. This means that the beneficiary that benefits from the community of the PIF remains and begins as being the same community that is which contributed to its establishment all those years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, this has been done before. An example of that is not far from home for me, in South Taranaki. They took a very similar approach back in 1999, where they created the South Taranaki District Council, had their long-term investment fund through their 1999 local Act, and therefore provides balance to the two big local government investment funds in Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EUltimately, this bill is about assisting New Plymouth District Council to help protect its Perpetual Investment Fund from short-term thinking, which is important, and, therefore, ensuring that this fund continues to benefit the district\u2019s community well into the future. This is a long-term plan. The bill permanently etches into the council\u2019s legal obligations many of the principles that sit behind its current arrangements. This allows the council to change the arrangements if this Parliament changes the Local Government Act to allow new organisations to be formed and other options, while ensuring that any changes still meet the fundamental objectives of a long-term fund that looks beyond the current political issues. This is a long-term investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis bill is the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle to ensure that the Perpetual Investment Fund can achieve its name for the New Plymouth district community. This is a Perpetual Investment Fund. This is looking long-term. This is ensuring that ratepayers and members within the New Plymouth district have certainty and security into the future. On that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d921d6d64e8840c19c0ba818d4790ada\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d921d6d64e8840c19c0ba818d4790ada\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226a61b4a0d1124297b269ff60794554c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a61b4a0d1124297b269ff60794554c5\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to speak on the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill first reading. I want to acknowledge the member of Parliament for New Plymouth, Glen Bennett, who has brought this bill to the House on behalf of the New Plymouth District Council. National will be supporting this bill through to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAs the member Glen Bennett has noted, I also want to recognise Mayor Neil Holdom for his contribution, along with his deputy mayor and councillors in regards to this process. What we are dealing with here is a bill and a local bill that, in effect, provides additional protections to protect a capital fund that results from the sale of Powerco, a power entity, by this community in the past. This perpetual fund has grown in size from around $249 million to now in the region of $346 million. And that fund provides revenue which is used to mitigate the costs that are incurred by that local council and, in effect, provide a revenue stream to maintain rates at a level of which is appropriate for that community. It\u2019s a really good example of local communities taking responsibility for local issues, and that is a principle that on this side of the House we very much support, and hence why we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhat has been done here by New Plymouth District Council in the past was to create this fund and there were, as the member articulated, some challenges and issues, post the 2008 global financial crisis, in which the way in which the fund was managed would lead to the fact that the capital amount did drop to levels that were deemed unsustainable. As a result of changes within that council, that amount of investment fund has now been rebuilt and built back up to the amount that it is today. I think no one can underestimate the scale of that investment fund and the benefits that are at play. It\u2019s also good to see that this Government are supporting asset recycling and the concept of recycling of assets and using that capital investment in order to benefit local communities. Because, in effect, this is what this investment fund does. The provisions around the changes in this bill, ring-fencing it to ensure that it stays very much in the bounds of the boundary of the New Plymouth community, is one that is sensible\u2014it is their asset and that asset should remain in community control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other changes that have been outlined in the bill, I think, in particular, are reasonably administrative. But in terms of the concept, in terms of supporting that capital for the New Plymouth community into the future, it is something that we very much support and we look forward to this going through the select committee process. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022abc0caf8a2ec4826a6084b741cb6e44c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abc0caf8a2ec4826a6084b741cb6e44c\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to take a call on the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill. Can I begin by just commending my colleague Glen Bennett. We often have a little bit of healthy competition between ourselves around sunshine\u2014it looks like Marlborough, close to Nelson, is doing quite well this year, so I might claim that. But, look, I just want to congratulate the member because it\u2019s been a useful day today; we\u2019ve got three private and local bills coming before the House which is very unusual on a members\u2019 day. I do want to acknowledge that for the three of us who have had bills today, it means that members\u2019 bills that would otherwise have been towards the top of the Order Paper do get bumped down a little. I do want to acknowledge that for those members, it must be somewhat frustrating. But there is an important process in these bills\u2014for local bills, it\u2019s very important that councils are able to come to the Parliament and have legislation put through that is going to improve their communities in a way that they may not be able to do through their own policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I thank the member Glen Bennett for the explanation of what has come about, what has led to this bill, and also the PIF fund\u2014the Perpetual Investment Fund\u2014as he called it. It\u2019s always good to have a good acronym for a financial mechanism; one of my favourite things is to have a good acronym. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo Mr Bennett has explained that, a while ago, the council chose to sell its shareholdings in Powerco and that the intention of doing that was to be able to bring down the rates that people in New Plymouth pay to the council, and that the fund was supposed to be sustainable and be able to last in perpetuity so that it wouldn\u2019t run down. And we can see that that is not what occurred and that there was a time when the fund dropped down to quite seriously low levels and the council has had to do a very good rescue job, I must say, of getting that back up to the levels that it is today\u2014but still lower than where it would be if it had been inflation adjusted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo what I think is good about this bill, and where I do commend the council, is putting in place a process to come to Parliament so that that fund can be treated in a sustainable way. It\u2019s important that, with governance, part of good governance is ensuring that when people change roles\u2014when you have people elected into new roles\u2014that you don\u2019t necessarily lose the important principles that you\u2019ve placed around a fund such as this. And I think what is very, very sensible is to ensure that, through this bill, the council will be able to satisfy the need for this fund to be used in a sustainable way. I note that, in the past, it\u2019s been used for a couple of particular purposes. One is, as I mentioned, to reduce rates for ratepayers, but, also, the potential to invest in community assets and funding for the development of things like walkways, things that are going to benefit the New Plymouth community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Mr Watts, noted, the bill also does another very good thing, which is to ring-fence this for the local community should there be an amalgamation at some point in the future. I\u2019m not aware of what the discussions are in the area about potential amalgamations\u2014I know in my area we sometimes have those conversations\u2014but it is important that an asset that has been built up by those people will be able to be ring-fenced for that purpose, and so I can see that being a very good part of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI do note that the council has also gone through the process of considering some other options, and I think that\u2019s wise before bringing something to the Parliament to see whether there is something else that can be done. So one of the things was to do nothing and retain the status quo or an enhanced version, by taking measures such as listing the PIF as a strategic asset, or to establish an entire new trust. Having said that, the council determined that they would proceed with a bill before Parliament. I think this is a good local bill that will go before the scrutiny of a select committee, which is where it will get further consideration, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00227ecd884007d249c6be952aa0300d721f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ecd884007d249c6be952aa0300d721f\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Thank you. The Green Party is pleased to support the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill, and congratulates Glen Bennett for his work with the council and others on bringing it to the House. As others have said\u2014and I won\u2019t take a long call\u2014this bill is because of the issues during the global financial crisis, when the money that the fund paid to the council to offset against rates and reduce the rates cost was too much, given the returns that the fund was making, and so it didn\u2019t continue to grow the capital of the fund. So the bill seeks to redress that, and it is certainly also ensuring that any of the benefits of the spending of the money is ring-fenced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI notice that the council did do community consultation and has invited people to have their say on what was being planned, and there has been some debate locally, because at the moment the fund does help the council reduce its rates, but it does mean that renters and others potentially don\u2019t get benefits from the fund revenue and the way that it is invested. So there was a strong call for things like social housing to be invested in by the council to ensure that the wider community benefits. The bill is good because in terms of the purposes for which the funds can be applied for, it does provide for \u201Cthe social, economic, environmental, and cultural well-being of current and future communities of the New Plymouth District.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI think there will also be a debate, potentially, in submissions about some wanting any depletion of the fund below what is provided in investment revenue to only be in emergencies. The bill provides a more generous ground where the council \u201Cconsiders, on reasonable grounds,\u201D that it will benefit the wellbeing of current and future communities more than \u201Cmaintaining the real value of the capital\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, obviously, submissions on that may improve the bill, but it does seem to have been through quite a thorough process by the New Plymouth District Council in looking out for the welfare of its current and future communities in how these funds, which resulted from the sale of its shareholding in Powerco back in 2004, are best invested. The Greens are pleased to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u00225ef0eb0450cb4136b004c84034120b5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ef0eb0450cb4136b004c84034120b5b\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a great pleasure to rise and take a call on this wonderful bill shepherded to this House by a wonderful MP for New Plymouth, my good colleague Glen Bennett. It\u2019s great to have an equally good select committee\u2014the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014to have this bill come through our select committee as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWhen I first started reading the background notes to the Perpetual Investment Fund (PIF) for the New Plymouth District Council, I was brought back to my days when I sat on the board of Foundation North. Of course, spot the similarities, I guess, as both of these organisations administer what we call a perpetual investment fund. So in terms of perpetuality when we talk about investment funds, it\u2019s making sure that the earnings that we get, we don\u2019t just spend it, we don\u2019t spend the base money, but we also invest it back into the fund so that that money can be reinvested. We used to use financial instruments like the stock exchange, we used to go on to Wall Street and buy all the shares, and any sort of way that we can get profit from, we get it back into the actual starting pot of the money so that there is actually money for the future. And that\u2019s actually geared for inflation as well so that inflation doesn\u2019t rot into the actual value of the starting-out fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo being able to responsibly look after the money that is on behalf of the benefactors\u2014in this case, it\u2019s the people in the New Plymouth district, and so it\u2019s really important. I\u2019m really pleased that this bill actually safeguards a lot of the perimeters that we have in that respect in just making sure that all the fund that is gained from PIF is actually used for current and future communities of New Plymouth as defined by the actual physical boundaries, but also making sure that the financial managers, which they can, from time to time or continuously, engage with, actually have best-practice investment decisions. So making sure that there is due diligence being done on those who actually manage the fund, those who do the investment, and the way that they actually look after the money is all in the best interests of the people of New Plymouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really great to also see just once again that good governance theme come through this afternoon in making sure not only is the money there, and it was through the sale of Powerco, but also making sure that those who look after it go through the right steps. So we\u2019ve strengthened it through this bill, but also making sure that in the future, as people come in as guardianship of this p\u016Btea, that they will continue to enable this p\u016Btea to do good things for their communities and for the purpose in which this fund was set up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI was also just reading a little bit more into the organisation and I guess you could say the ambition that the New Plymouth District Council had for this fund. Not only can we see that it\u2019s already benefited the taxpayers by forking up a percentage of their taxpayers\u2019 bill, but also making sure that if in the future they want to look at other different projects, to invest in the community, to make sure that it truly delivers for the region around New Plymouth and making sure that there are actually benefits, tangible benefits, that this fund will bring. In order for the people of New Plymouth to actually enjoy these tangible benefits, we have to make sure it\u2019s a long-term focus\u2014that it\u2019s a future-looking fund as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo today, here in this House, we set strengthened the perimeters of those rules in making sure that we prevent from things like the global financial crisis (GFC)\u2014and reading back into the history of this fund, we know that there were a couple of tricky years in the GFC where investments were being sold off and the actual the pot of money was being slowly eroded away. I think back once again to my days on the Foundation North board as well, where we were told to sit tight. So good financial advisers will give you great strategy to weather those storms in the financial market. And so by having the strength that we have right now in this bill\u2014that will no doubt come into force, because I think we\u2019ve got the support of both sides of the House\u2014we\u2019ll be able to ride those storms and we\u2019ll be able to see that future generations all benefit from this p\u016Btea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo, once again, congratulations to my colleague Glen Bennett for bringing this bill to the House, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002262e2e02d695c447ba55977ce45687bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262e2e02d695c447ba55977ce45687bd8\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Look, it gives me great pleasure to let the House know, to let the people of New Plymouth know, and the New Plymouth District Council know, that the ACT Party will support this bill, because the ACT Party believes that local government, councils like the New Plymouth District Council, should be able to say what happens to their assets, they should be able to control them, they should be able to decide whether they sell them, how they use them, what dividends they seek to recover, and so on. Imagine that: local government gets to decide whether they sell their assets and put the money into an investment fund\u2014that\u2019s what New Plymouth District Council did with Powerco all those years ago. They sold their electricity infrastructure assets\u2014the local lines company\u2014because they thought they\u2019d be able to do something better with the money. And what they did was they invested in this capitalist concept called equities and stocks, which the fund trades on stock markets, long-term institutional investments. That\u2019s a concept which might be alien to our comrades in the Labour Party, that if you invest money wisely in things that produce a profit, then that profit can be used to do other things with\u2014that\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo the ACT Party supports the concept behind this bill that councils should be able to use their assets or dispose of them as long as they have a democratic mandate to do so\u2014that\u2019s right. They don\u2019t want their assets flogged by central government like the three waters assets will be flogged\u2014those billions and billions of dollars\u2019 worth of assets that we\u2019ve heard that Minister Nanaia Mahuta believes should actually sit with a State corporation rather than local government. They don\u2019t want Governments to tell them what they should and shouldn\u2019t be allowed to sell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo the ACT Party will support this bill. We think that the New Plymouth District Council, through its proposed amendment to the deed, to the guardianship of these assets in the fund, actually, is setting itself up for a successful future, because there was a problem when successive councils decided to draw down heavily on the fund\u2019s capital, rather than rely solely on the profits of the fund to fund the things that council wanted to do. And that shows you, actually, some of the problems that Governments that spend beyond their means can get into, like this current lot\u2014this current Labour Government: spending, spending, spending beyond their means; borrowing, borrowing, borrowing to hand out cash like a drunken\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253dee36805c245acb748c9e9bc447e5d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will come back to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289d04b6ce6ac4c14acb4f2808c51a2cc\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your direction. So it shows you that if you spend unwisely, if you draw down the capital of your fund faster than it can be replenished, then in the end you\u2019ll have less money at the end to make a profit from. So what New Plymouth District Council have worked out is that if they maintain the fund, if they keep money in it, it keeps generating profits; if they keep investing in things that make a profit, then they will have more money to allocate back to the people of New Plymouth. So the ACT Party thinks that\u2019s a great idea, but there are certainly lessons to be learnt. I hope that the member sponsoring this bill, Glen Bennett from New Plymouth, advocates strongly for the position that the New Plymouth District Council has taken with respect to their assets\u2014capitalism, investing in things that make a profit\u2014with his caucus and with the Ministers who are responsible: say, the Minister of Finance, who\u2019s responsible for working out how much Government should spend; or the Minister of Revenue, David Parker, how much the Government needs to take in tax\u2014I\u2019ll say the Minister of Transport, Michael Wood, who\u2019s responsible for working out how much needs to be spent on the roads in New Zealand, including in New Plymouth and Taranaki, which are full of potholes, versus how much revenue is collected from different revenue streams like fuel excise duty and road-user charges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo lots of valuable lessons in this bill for this Labour Government, and particularly for the Labour caucus when they go back into caucus to work out how they\u2019re going to come up with the money for all of next year\u2019s election promises. The New Plymouth District Council doesn\u2019t have that problem because they\u2019re taking a responsible attitude to managing their assets for the greater good of their people. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u002270e3f2e7715b4793a157b1025f15d05b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270e3f2e7715b4793a157b1025f15d05b\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my pleasure to take a call on this bill. I\u2019m really pleased that I\u2019m able to make a contribution, and I want to acknowledge my colleague\u2014member Glen Bennett\u2014for bringing this private bill to the House and specifically to highlight the importance of this bill for the residents, current and future, living in the New Plymouth district, and the Perpetual Investment Fund, and why it is important that there is protection and preservation of this Perpetual Investment Fund. So I\u2019ll just call it PIF, because it\u2019s a little bit of a long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really pleased that across the House other representatives can see the benefit of the PIF for the community that it has been derived from. We know that as a result of investment decisions back in the 1980s and the closing of the Powerco company, there was the enablement and the commencement of the New Plymouth PIF Guardians, in terms of securing in the continuity of the benefit in the New Plymouth District Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI just want to quickly highlight in my contribution that the principles for this fund are really important: that the community have got the supports, because these funds are for local ratepayers and local purpose of community activities. You could somewhat call it a nest egg, in that the current residents in the New Plymouth district know that the guardians that are appointed to the governance of the group know the local residents understand the local community and can also weigh up in their governance decisions why this fund is protected and preserved for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo just as I wrap up: it provides the sustainable future, good principles on collaboration, the understanding of the council to the local New Plymouth PIF Guardians who will make good decisions. It is important that when you do have a governance group who very quickly do understand local activity and local communities, that they see the benefit for future populations. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00223ef63fd6f11d4bf1800ca578e1bb9809\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ef63fd6f11d4bf1800ca578e1bb9809\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a brief call on the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill. I have sat through the debate. I want to also congratulate my colleague Glen Bennett who has introduced this bill\u2014is sponsoring this local bill\u2014and for him giving some background to why we have this here today. As somebody who doesn\u2019t come from that area, it was really helpful for me to know, and I was actually thinking about how, unfortunately, I think, in my area we don\u2019t have something like this. So how fortunate the residents and ratepayers of New Plymouth are to have this fund. You can see why it is that they have brought the bill here, the remedy that they are seeking, and this being the avenue to be able to provide them with the ability to do the things that it is that they want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWhat I wanted to particularly highlight this afternoon was that the council considered a number of options, but the points that I wanted to raise were really about having considered all of its options, including its experience with the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Act 2018. The council resolved on 8 March to develop this draft and draft this local bill and use the special consultative procedure under the Local Government Act to engage with its communities on the draft local bill. So they\u2019ve already done some consultation around this. It is being referred to a select committee to hear further submissions and do further work on it. But through that process, through the community consultation, which opened on 13 May and closed on 17 June, 52 submissions were received. Following consideration of the written submissions, the council determined on 26 July 2022 to proceed with a local bill to regulate the Perpetual Investment Fund (PIF). When I was listening to \u201CPIF\u201D I was thinking of \u201CTIF\u201D which is another fund which we do benefit from up north, that is the Tourism Infrastructure Fund, but that is not what this is; this is the PIF and it is specifically for New Plymouth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAnd so the council considered that the draft bill should require the council to consider the following principles when dealing with the PIF: that it should be used in a perpetual manner; that the capital base may be used if circumstances arise warranting it; and that investments should be independently managed, on a prudent commercial basis, and to avoid prejudicing the council\u2019s reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo I want to commend the council for going through that process and then bringing it here, also to the member Glen Bennett who has brought it here this afternoon, and I wish the select committee well in working through their submission process and coming back with the legislation in the best form that it can be. And with that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00220614c60cd3bc417c8b4c65059ab792e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220614c60cd3bc417c8b4c65059ab792e2\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The National Party is supporting this bill, the New Plymouth District Council (Perpetual Investment Fund) Bill, in its first reading today. The National Party recognises that the shares that were sold that have built up this fund are tagged for the benefit of the New Plymouth ratepayers and the New Plymouth District Council boundaries, and understands the need to ring-fence that and futureproof it in case of any further or future amalgamations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe National Party is very keen to see the assets that belong to ratepayers secured for those ratepayers if it is a perpetual fund like this or their water assets. The National Party believes they should stay in ratepayer control and ownership and so the benefit of that fund is also, by the virtue of this bill, secured for the people of New Plymouth. So we support the bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00224455bc4b96ba4139980caa84c46f5dfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224455bc4b96ba4139980caa84c46f5dfc\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak in support of this bill, and I again congratulate my friend and colleague Glen Bennett for bringing the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI just wanted to comment briefly on the comments made by my friend in ACT Simon Court because from that recount, one listening at home would think that this was an enormous success. Powerco was one of the groups that bought up a whole lot of council assets when they were sold, and, as a consequence the Queensland Government, now own Powerco; alongside AMP Limited. So the Australians now own our major asset, in that way\u2014and that\u2019s a really sad thing from my point of view. Nevertheless, we are here to make things as right as we can, and this bill seems to be doing exactly that. This bill will actually support the investment, in this community, of the money that came out of that; after what sounds like a very rocky time with that money. So it\u2019s a way of securing it for that community. And thus, I am commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002215e85890ef33471d84a0d0ee6eba39f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215e85890ef33471d84a0d0ee6eba39f8\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Thank you very much to all members and parties that have contributed this afternoon to this debate. I\u2019m glad\u2014well, hopeful. Promises have been made that everybody supports it. I look forward to the vote and it making it to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWell, I actually want to follow on from what my colleague Helen White said around the fund, because if we look back even before Powerco, it was the energy reforms of the 1990s that basically started the chain reaction to Powerco being sold off to an Australian company. It was the Taranaki Electric Power Board, which was owned, obviously, by the council. Then, obviously reform happened and the assets were sold off, but, that\u2019s right, let\u2019s not talk about protecting the assets, because that\u2019s a whole \u2018nother kettle of fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just want to say thank you to everyone this afternoon for your contribution and also for the fact that I don\u2019t know how many times I\u2019ve heard PIF said in this House before, but it was a lot. I also want to say that for some of you who were far more elegant than me, my PIFs were sort of pff whereas, actually, Lemauga Lydia Sosene, I think, had the most elegant and articulate PIF, which I won\u2019t even be able to articulate as she did. But obviously it is the Perpetual Investment Fund, and I\u2019m grateful that we will be supporting it this afternoon. I want to acknowledge my Green Party colleague the Hon Eugenie Sage, who talks about the New Plymouth District Council and their due diligence and also the concerns, because there are some concerns that were raised in that process in the due jiligence\u2014do jili\u2014do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cdd0532ba534dccb2c053ff1eb309f7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Due diligence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269e638b9e6a4106a567d15e85abf230\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Due diligence. It\u2019s all the Ps and the Ds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI hear that and have had conversations back in the electorate of New Plymouth about that. So that\u2019s why going to select committee and having those conversations and having more submissions made on this will be helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI also would like to acknowledge Simon Watts in terms of him talking about the additional protections, which is why we\u2019re here today, because the council is asking for those additional protections around this piece of legislation. I am grateful that people are supporting this. This bill is about paying it forward. This bill is around legacy work in terms of looking to the future. It\u2019s around making sure that the benefits received today from our history are passed on to our future. It\u2019s providing an intergenerational equity, ensuring that future generations do not lose out on the benefits due to short-term thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation is important, and I know that the New Plymouth District Council is looking forward to it\u2019s going through all stages in this House and to help the council to be able to continue to run services. You know, we mentioned earlier, my colleague Rachel Boyack, around things like the Festival of Lights and investing in new services, such as the extension of our coastal walkway all the way to Waitara, but ensuring that investment into our rates to ensure that people can live, yes, in the sunniest city in New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s a true story; three years in a row, I believe. I\u2019m sorry, Rachel Boyack, it\u2019s not Nelson. I am grateful that we are here about to vote, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d40eda61824467abd19037f08800d24\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b79e59109b004cc4a5a8fe5ca454c17d\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2bb518488ad4b30a227ef16d09fcda2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2bb518488ad4b30a227ef16d09fcda2\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Hon Meka Whaitiri (Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti): I move, That the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 11 April 2023. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI am presenting this on behalf of my colleague Meka Whaitiri, who is attending her son\u2019s graduation. This is her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThis is a simple and practical piece of legislation which will enable the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Association to sell its interests in the Tomoana Showgrounds without being required to invest the money from the sale in the purchase of other land. The society has entered into an unconditional agreement to sell the showgrounds to Hastings District Council under arrangements which will give the grounds reserve status, ensuring it is protected for the community. The council also has plans to prepare a reserve management plan and, with the community, to determine how the showgrounds are looked after and create opportunities for events in the years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EImportantly, this will still allow the society 10 days of annual fee use of the showgrounds in perpetuity, which means it can continue to host four key regional events: the annual Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P show, horticultural field days, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Wine Awards, and the Primary Sector Awards, which celebrate the region\u2019s food and fibre industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI grew up in Whakat\u016B, a short drive from the Tomoana Showgrounds, and can remember attending field days and the A \u0026amp; P show when I was younger. Only a few weeks ago, I was there at the Hawke\u2019s Bay anniversary day, along with colleagues Stuart Nash and myself\u2014Anna Lorck\u2014enjoying the latest edition of the Hawke\u2019s Bay show and chatting with locals. These are crucial events for the local economy, great fun for families, and the key thing is it will not change under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThe reason the bill is needed is because currently the provisions of the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act 1908 require the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society to invest the money received from the sale of land in purchasing other land suitable for the purchasers of the society. The Act controls how the sales must be handled and what can be done with the proceeds, but this may not be the best financial use for the society. The society is seeking to change these requirements as it considers they prevent it from achieving optimal profit in the short and long term, whether that be through term deposit, investment, land purchase, or other means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAmending the bill will allow the society to achieve optimal profit to continue promoting its primary sector to a wide audience, facilitating events, acknowledging local history and heritage, developing educational programmes, awarding scholarships, and helping its sector and region to continue to develop, grow, and prosper. To achieve the purpose of allowing the society to apply the money received from the sale of land towards the purposes that are consistent with the objectives of the society, the bill treats certain provisions of the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act 1908, the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Amendment Act 1912, and the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Amendment Act 1920 as never having applied to the society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIf the land was sold, the society must apply the money received from the sale towards the purposes that are consistent with the objects of the society. It is important to note that under the agreements of their sale to the Hastings District Council, the society is still able to host all their key events at Tomoana Showgrounds. They do not need to purchase additional land to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAs mentioned in my opening remarks, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Association Empowering Bill is a simple and practical piece of legislation that would allow the society to sell its interests in Tomoana Showgrounds without being required to invest the money from the sale in the purchase of other land, and it will ensure these fantastic events will continue at the Hawke\u2019s Bay Showgrounds. It is preferable that this bill is passed in time for the settlement of the sale on 31 March 2023. But in light of the tight time frames at hand, there is some flexibility with both the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society and the Hastings District Council, who are two parties to the sale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAs mentioned earlier, the intention of Meka Whaitiri is for the bill to spend four months in select committee and she has spoken with the chair and deputy chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, who are happy to take this bill on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI can assure members that this bill has strong community support. Hastings District Council, which is purchasing the showgrounds, have written a letter of support, as has Waipatu Marae. Society members voted in favour of the sale. I am also grateful for the interest and support of the member for Taranaki - King Country, Barbara Kuriger. The society has also fulfilled all of its requirements under Appendix C, including advertising notices of the proposed bill in local newspapers in Hawke\u2019s Bay and each of the other cities in Aotearoa, being Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIt might also be helpful for members to know that this is not the first time a bill of this kind has gone through the House. The Southland Agricultural and Pastoral Association Empowering Bill was passed in 2006, which empowered the association to sell its fee simple and lease interests in the Invercargill Showgrounds and any other land it may require, without having to apply the money received from the sale to purchase other land suitable for the purposes of the society, as required by the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act 1908. On that occasion, there was less than five weeks between the bill\u2019s first reading in the House and its passing a third reading. I note my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor was amongst those to speak in support of that bill during the House debate some 16 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThis bill enables a sensible and practical outcome for the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society and means our region will be able to continue celebrating and promoting the successes of our local food and fibre sector. It is supported by the local community and I look forward to the House expediting this bill at its earliest opportunity. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002222802000ea2f4679a3bc66978bf9dbcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222802000ea2f4679a3bc66978bf9dbcc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis debate is interrupted until after the dinner break at 7 p.m., when I will resume the Chair. Ka kite an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.58 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224db79ea76f444ed78068a6e7b63fdb18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224db79ea76f444ed78068a6e7b63fdb18\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to open this debate on behalf of the National Party. For those of you who have just tuned in, this is the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill in the first reading. It is a private bill that is very much focused on the showgrounds in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and it is in the name of the Hon Meka Whaitiri. This is a piece of legislation that National will, of course, be supporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve had the fortunate opportunity to spend a reasonable amount of time in the Hawke\u2019s Bay over the last couple of years, and attending, actually, the A \u0026amp; P show recently just reminds us how important these A \u0026amp; P societies are, but also how different times are from the original legislation, or the legislation that currently guides the sale and use of any proceeds, because it goes back to 1908. So, of course, the activity of the society is very different, and what we don\u2019t want to see is the proceeds of the agreed sale of the 42.8 hectares\u2014or under agreement, I should say, to the Hastings District Council; that\u2019s an unconditional sale\u2014being restricted so it can only be used for another land purchase, as that doesn\u2019t make sense in this day and age. Instead, the society need to have the opportunity to use those proceeds for other purposes that mean the society is able to function, and function well, in the modern environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOf course, part of the legislation or the agreement would protect 10 days of use of the land for the A \u0026amp; P society for four very significant shows\u2014of course, the annual A \u0026amp; P show, which I was fortunate to take leader Christopher Luxon to recently, and I think it\u2019s always fantastic to see that our rural communities are in very strong heart. Of course, I saw parliamentary colleagues from across the House. Everybody recognises how fundamental A \u0026amp; P societies are and how important those major agricultural events are to our communities. Actually, I look at other parts of New Zealand where they have disappeared, so it is really important that we are able to do our bit through legislation to enable them, and this is absolutely enabling legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI just want to backtrack through some of the history to make sure that those listening to this debate understand there is widespread agreement to this piece of legislation. When the Hastings District Council first proposed this arrangement, ahead of the $7.5 million unconditional purchase price, they did go out to the community, and 93 percent of the submitters were supportive. So, yes, this piece of legislation will go through a full select committee process. I\u2019d encourage anyone who has a view\u2014for, against, or indifferent\u2014to submit. That\u2019s a really important way of the community being satisfied that it is with their wishes. The member who led off the first reading on behalf of the Hon Meka Whaitiri did indicate that it would be a shorter report back, but it is not a truncated process in terms of triggering certain procedures. So we are anticipating there\u2019ll be submissions, but because the Hastings District Council have already done a significant amount of consultation with 93 percent in support, I don\u2019t expect that there\u2019ll be much contention as it works its way through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ENational members will, of course, be supportive of progressing this legislation, just as we did with the most similar example to this in Southland back in 2006. There was a similar piece of legislation back then that was in the name of National MP Eric Roy, the Southland Agricultural and Pastoral Association Empowering Bill. This is mirroring it very, very closely. National members don\u2019t have any concerns about it. We want to make sure that the proceeds of the sale are able to be used more flexibly for the society to make sure that the advantages\u2014and they can proceed with ensuring that the purposes and objectives of the society are met without the constraint that the proceeds have to mean purchasing land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOf course, the land that is going to be transferred into the ownership of the Hastings District Council, the 40 hectares, will be then converted into a reserve and managed like every other council reserve under a reserves management plan. Of course, the community will be consulted on that. The other party that will be involved with that will be the Waipatu Marae, and they have, of course, written supporting letters in support of this legislation, which is really important. So the letters of support that accompany this bill are from the society themselves, from the Hastings District Council, and from Waipatu Marae, as I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo National\u2019s very happy to support this legislation to enable the society to fulfil its purposes and functions, but recognise in this day and age it doesn\u2019t need the land holding that it has currently and it can use the proceeds for other purposes. So I\u2019m pleased to support this bill and indicate National\u2019s support in its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002271a3dcafce8f464d91b5225e95b2ec02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271a3dcafce8f464d91b5225e95b2ec02\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00226302e51e1da04821a968f20a97d1d176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226302e51e1da04821a968f20a97d1d176\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill. Can I first of all acknowledge my colleagues who hail from the region; the sponsor of the bill, the Hon Meka Whaitiri; and also my colleagues Anna Lorck and Stuart Nash, who I know will have a lot of interest in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs previous members have talked about, the bill is a private bill taken on behalf of the Hawkes Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society (A \u0026amp; P society), and it specifically allows the society to use the proceeds of the sale of land for purposes that are in line with the objects of the society and its charitable status. There has been a lot of history around this particular piece of land. Having spoken briefly to my colleague Anna Lorck about this, there was a proposal at one point for the land to be sold for housing, but there was some pushback from the community about that because it is land that has the ability to be very productive. That is an issue that has actually cropped up around the country, including in my own electorate, where housing has been built on productive land\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4524fe15e3644b2a1b613093fbd6299\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your electorate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa62366f9d84a218002d9da67b29de8\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: My electorate of Nelson. So in the suburb of Richmond, there has been a lot of housing built on productive land, and it\u2019s challenging at times when it\u2019s difficult to acquire the amount of land that we do need for housing. One of the things this Government has done is put legislation in place to ensure that that is done in a much more careful way to ensure we protect the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the things I really like about this bill on reading about it is that the council has agreed a sale and purchase agreement with the society, and the land can continue to be used by the A \u0026amp; P Society for the purpose of events and running its show. We all know the importance of\u2014well, certainly those of us who are in provincial and rural and regional parts of New Zealand understand the importance of A \u0026amp; P shows for bringing people together. We\u2019ve finally been able to hold ours in Nelson recently. Unfortunately, we had a bit of rain on the second day, but it was very wonderful to be able to have everyone back together. The shows do a significant amount in promoting the work of our rural communities in allowing people who live in the towns and cities nearby who interact with those communities to be able to work together and learn about each other. I always really enjoy going to our local show. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I was very pleased to see that the council will, as part of this agreement\u2014and it will, I\u2019m sure, be referenced in this bill\u2014allow the possibility for the A \u0026amp; P society to continue to run their shows, because it obviously wouldn\u2019t be good for that to not continue in the mighty Hawke\u2019s Bay region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why this bill is needed is, as previous speakers have mentioned, that the current arrangements would require the A \u0026amp; P society to have to purchase land, and that actually doesn\u2019t help the society to achieve the objectives of selling the land in the first place. I think this is a very practical solution to bring this bill to the Parliament so that the A \u0026amp; P society can actually move forward, can receive the funds from the sale, and can actually then invest it in ensuring that it can continue to achieve its objectives for the community. And I think that that is a very wise and practical suggestion. And, actually, just a shout-out to Mark Cameron from the ACT Party, who came to the Nelson A \u0026amp; P show\u2014just to give you a shout-out, it was good to see you there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut what I\u2019m really pleased about as well is that this bill will come to the select committee I sit on: the Governance and Administration Committee. And I know there has been, I think, a few members from around the House who are disappointed I didn\u2019t send my bill to the mighty Governance and Administration Committee, but this bill will be going to our committee. It does look like the council and the society have done a significant amount of work leading up to the bill. And I think that whenever we do see private and local bills coming forward, it is always really helpful when that work has gone on ahead; it makes the work of the select committee far more straightforward in terms of hearing submitters. So I do encourage people to submit to us. We\u2019ll be very interested to hear submissions from people. This is an excellent piece of work. I do commend my colleague Meka Whaitiri for bringing this bill to the House and I look forward to seeing it progress. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00229292fed2ae3d46c690fb6ce44c4c4225\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229292fed2ae3d46c690fb6ce44c4c4225\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EPrevious speakers have explained very clearly what the bill does. The Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society (A \u0026amp; P society), owns showgrounds. They want to be able to sell the property without being required to acquire other land, so this bill makes a lot of sense. Obviously, this provision goes way, way back, and it does limit some of the activities that the society is able to invest in in order to achieve the objectives that are set out as a charitable society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe objectives to promote agricultural, pastoral, horticulture, viticulture, forestry resources through its various channels are not too dissimilar to the objectives that sit alongside the Green Party\u2019s agriculture and rural affairs policy. Very similar points\u2014probably with the Green Party having a slightly bigger focus on environmental protection and regenerative practice, but still very much aligned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe showgrounds are to be sold to the Hastings District Council, so will stay in public ownership designated as a reserve to be managed by a trust with representatives of the A \u0026amp; P society, the council and the nearby marae, which is obviously an excellent outcome\u2014but only if this bill passes. It sounds like it\u2019s not going to have any difficulty passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, yep. There\u2019s not that much more to say about it. The Green Party supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4185ae7b80047a283f419474054f467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4185ae7b80047a283f419474054f467\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t quite prepared for the Green Party to take such a short call on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EThis is a great bill. Honestly, it\u2019s great to see our colleague the Hon Meka Whaitiri bring such a good bill. Today, we\u2019re debating the content of this bill, which is just, I think, a very simple change to the legislation that governs the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society. It\u2019s just making sure that once they sell their piece of land\u2014right now, they don\u2019t have to reinvest the money, and I\u2019ll speak a little bit more on that further on into my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI know that when this bill first came to this House\u2014actually, before it arrived at this House\u2014the Hon Meka Whaitiri, along with her colleagues in the Hawke\u2019s Bay Region, Anna Lorck and the Hon Stuart Nash, had done a lot of work in that region in terms of getting support, getting it to where it is, and making sure that everyone in the Hawke\u2019s Bay region is happy and satisfied with the current arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI started today\u2019s contribution\u2014and I think three is the lucky number for me today\u2014thinking that this would be an afternoon and evening of themes around governance. I think this is probably another one where we\u2019re looking at the funds of a sale of a piece of land\u2014this time, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society\u2019s piece of land, namely the Tomoana Showgrounds\u2014and the proceeds of that and how that could actually be better used to fulfil the purpose for which the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society has been established, and how it fulfils its vision and mission statement, which is, I think\u2014I had read somewhere\u2014is it to bring town and rural together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf601620588b46bf80d03a28463d275e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Town and country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298aea881cc8c4ee388a79631ff166ed3\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN\u003C/span\u003E: Town and country. Sorry\u2014town and country, I had read that somewhere in my notes, and I think that\u2019s a great mission statement to have. I think for those of us who have grown up in urban areas, events such as A \u0026amp; P shows, such as Fieldays, which I have just been to over the last week, have actually been really, really interesting and formative, and for me, as an MP as well, allowed me to gain that actual full understanding of what is really the foundation and a really strong pillar of our New Zealand economy. I\u2019m sure that Hawke\u2019s Bay Agriculture and Pastoral Society does exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve talked about, even in the last bill that had come to the House, investing in different types of financial instruments, different ways of investing, whether it\u2019s with shares or it\u2019s with other ways\u2014that, actually, there are better ways than just investing in land, I guess, more productive ways than just investing in land, to make sure that the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society actually gets the benefit of the cash and the equity they had realised from selling their land and making sure that that cash and equity actually is put and injected into their day-to-day running, into their business, into making sure that they actually can deliver the projects that they want to for their members, for their local community, and for New Zealanders in general as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo I love how we\u2019ve talked about having that long-term perspective in terms of that financial planning. This bill will just empower and enable them just to do exactly that in terms of making sure they have the freedom to plan according to the market conditions, according to the market price of land at the current time, and also relative price to other things such as I\u2019ve mentioned, shares and bonds and all of the other financial instruments, which they can perhaps get a better income or get a better dividend from, but also things that will help them to weather storms as well. We all know that the market goes up and it goes down. So if we\u2019re ever faced with another\u2014God forbid\u2014financial crisis, like the global financial crisis we saw earlier on, then at least they would have a diverse investment portfolio to actually help them get through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EBut what I\u2019m also really pleased to see is that they\u2019ve negotiated the use of the showgrounds, even after selling it. I think there must have been some really smart negotiations in the process, so I commend them for that result as well. As we\u2019ve already traversed, this will come to another great select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4d5f321c77429aa4d86379c838f13c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e610e2162a9541ca919fc27a966ea607\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes; I see my good colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse over there\u2014the Governance and Administration Committee. We do look forward to shepherding this bill through the process, and we do look forward to hearing some submissions\u2014show and tell, please. We\u2019d love to see some of the products that you guys offer as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo, on that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022a85f3a1a262d48cc9bcf517a2efd1323\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a85f3a1a262d48cc9bcf517a2efd1323\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e50f3b8ccd6b4af2a89f0e4774f28067\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: This will be a cracker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c13962ccbec040c0a4325c54c02e0834\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure it will be! Thank you very much. As you well know, I\u2019m a farmer, and I absolutely love going to A \u0026amp; P shows. I have been going to them for almost 30 years\u2014absolutely love them. It\u2019s all things rural, and it\u2019s all things rural community\u2014and the A \u0026amp; P shows that I have been to just this year alone speak to this very reality. I\u2019ve been to the Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014the Napier\u2014A \u0026amp; P show, I\u2019ve been to the Waimate North A \u0026amp; P show, Manawat\u016B, and the list goes on. This is so rural New Zealand; this is a really cool story and it\u2019s a great piece of legislation. It speaks to the Hawke\u2019s Bay region having certainty about not only the history but taking their A \u0026amp; P further by virtue of this legislation, and how the legal framework will give them certainty in terms of the liquidation of the land\u2014but equally, the continuation of the use of the land for A \u0026amp; P shows. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThis is an integral part of what we do in rural New Zealand\u2014it brings communities together. And there are a couple of anecdotes I just wanted to share with the House, because it\u2019s been well canvassed this evening about the importance of this legislation to give the community certainty. The A \u0026amp; P society, it says, will retain ownership of the Tomoana Showgrounds until 31 March 2023. From 1 April 2023 on, 40 hectares of the Tomoana Showgrounds will move to the Hastings District Council. Still great outcomes\u2014the land gets sold, but the use has been well articulated, for that 10-day period can speak to all things rural and the coming together\u2014the previous speaker, Naisi Chen, spoke on it\u2014the coming together of rural and urban New Zealand at an A \u0026amp; P show. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ESome of the other anecdotes that were shared about how this would actually give the community\u2014and this was well encapsulated by the Hastings mayor, Sandra Hazlehurst. She says, \u201Ctruly fantastic for our community\u201D. All things community; what a wonderful, quick summation of the certainty that this piece of legislation will give to the community. The council will immediately start the process and have the showgrounds vested as a reserve. A great outcome for iwi, for community, and for the continuation of the A \u0026amp; P. The 40 hectares will move over to the Hastings District Council\u2014good outcomes for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI know there\u2019s a propensity for politicians to pontificate for the sake of hearing their own voice, and I certainly won\u2019t. This is a great piece of legislation. We absolutely support this and look forward to the Governance and Administration Committee reconciling the small amount of controversy that it may bring; although I don\u2019t think it will do. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022841a6bb22cf747099de96e869abbbc59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841a6bb22cf747099de96e869abbbc59\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call on this private bill. I think perhaps\u2014I haven\u2019t double-checked this\u2014it\u2019s possibly the first private bill that I have had the pleasure of speaking on in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3af0714d3e246cfa6738def4a6b84bb\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the first of many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0ae5061e0f4731b4c6839b3b4dcc5c\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps. Anyway, I found this matter particularly interesting as someone who doesn\u2019t live in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and I wanted to pay tribute to Meka Whaitiri, the member who has brought this bill to the House, and also to Anna Lorck, who introduced the bill today. We also have other members in our caucus with connections to Hawke\u2019s Bay: Stuart Nash, who\u2019s the member for Napier, which is also in Hawke\u2019s Bay; and Shanan Halbert is also a son of Hawke\u2019s Bay, now living in Northcote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is a very interesting piece of legislation, and I thought I would go through exactly how I have understood that it works, for the benefit of anyone watching at home. As I understand it, this bill will allow the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society to sell the Tomoana Showgrounds. Now, the Tomoana Showgrounds\u2014I have actually been to the Tomoana Showgrounds many times, mainly to attend the very, very good farmers markets that they have at the Tomoana Showgrounds. I do believe I heard a previous speaker state that they were one of the largest farmers markets in New Zealand. They\u2019re certainly very, very good for bringing town and country together, which, as my colleague Naisi Chen has said, is one of the objectives of the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society, which is the subject of this bill. The other things that they have at the Tomoana Showgrounds are the Fiesta of Lights and, interestingly, the Land Rover Horse of the Year competition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s my understanding that these excellent community activities will continue once this land is sold to the Hastings District Council, and I think that the sale is due to go through on 31 March next year. It\u2019s kind of a win-win situation, really. The council gets to allow the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society to continue with its good work and the events that it holds, including the very popular show that they do, the first of which I understand was in 1863, some years after the society was first established in 1858. That is 164 years ago, so it\u2019s certainly a responsible society, which I think this House can trust with the ability to sell their own land and invest the money that they\u2019ll gain from the sale of that land into responsible endeavours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, this bill does allow, as I said, the sale of land. It is subject to some conditions. The conditions are outlined in Part 2 of the bill, in clause 5(2), and you can see those listed out there. Obviously, it has to be advantageous to the society, two-thirds of the members have to agree to the sale, and they have to have a general meeting with sufficient notice as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBut that is not all: once the sale has gone through, the money then has to be\u2014as with most other societies\u2014used for the purposes and objectives of that society, and you might ask and wonder what the purposes and objectives of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society are. I did google this prior to coming to the House, and I can inform the House that the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society is paving the way for initiatives and forward thinking in the rural sector. They have several objectives: to advance the primary sector, promote growth, celebrate excellence, provide educational opportunities, highlight careers across the primary sector, and honour the heritage and continue the legacy of the foundation members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo I think that this bill, as I\u2019ve said, seems to be a win-win situation. The wonderful showgrounds that we have there in Hastings can continue to be used. The money can go to these excellent causes, which I have just read out, of a very well-thought-of society that has very, very positive and community-minded objectives. So I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1d74b89fd6e4147af4aeb9c5f64ca24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1d74b89fd6e4147af4aeb9c5f64ca24\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a great privilege to rise as a member of the House who lives in a rural community to support the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve already heard, this is an enabling bill that will support the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society to remain flexible, nimble, and responsive\u2014and progressive, which is why it\u2019s been around for more than 150 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about the intent of the society to bring town and country together\u2014a very wonderful ambition that hasn\u2019t changed in 150 years. But time has moved on and the ability of the society to succeed in its endeavours it believes, of course, is hampered by the fact that until, hopefully, this bill gets passed, they will be able to do other things with their capital assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI have yet to take up Anna Lorck\u2019s generous invitation to attend the prestigious event that is the Hawke\u2019s Bay show. I will obviously have to do it soon, but\u2014maybe it\u2019s because I\u2019ve been very satisfied what happens down the road from my place in Stratford. I suspect there may be a little bit more rain at ours, but I know from our magnificent Stratford Agricultural and Pastoral Society show that this is an event where deals are made, townies get educated, rural living and the rural economy is celebrated, and there is a little bit of joy\u2014and that makes me happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard that they have 30,000 visitors to the show and we know what happens\u2014the same things as the A \u0026amp; P shows around the country: we get to educate those townies. I can remember queuing up for tickets a while ago in Stratford and somebody was going\u2014they must have come from New Plymouth; you know, the big smoke\u2014\u201CThe A \u0026amp; P. What does the A \u0026amp; P stand for?\u201D \u201COh, it stands for agriculture and produce.\u201D So, you know, luckily we got to correct them on that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239fd4074a114cb5995f2048f4c44255\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Pastoral!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d56cb124fad34d818b3dc2631575951e\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS\u003C/span\u003E: I know that, but they didn\u2019t. So there was a good learning opportunity there for the townies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great chance to go and kick some tractor tires and watch the kids having conversations with their dads about whether or not they\u2019re allowed to buy a new tractor\u2014especially interesting when they do live in town.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe know that there\u2019s fantastic livestock events and equestrian events, and it is a place where we grow world-class livestock and shearers and wood choppers\u2014and actually world champion livestock and shearers and wood choppers. Just need to do a little shout-out to our world champion timber man, the wonderful Jack Jordan, who attended Stratford High School\u2014just saying\u2014and a brilliant young leader internationally. I spent many years watching that young man chop wood at the Stratford show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo we know it\u2019s a magnificent event around the country, and it\u2019s great to know that the Hawke\u2019s Bay A \u0026amp; P Society will be able to continue with that work. The A \u0026amp; P show, of course, is all about fun as well. And fun is a serious thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s the Ferris wheel; I\u2019m sure that they have the equivalent of McDonald\u2019s farm\u2014the petting zoo\u2014over in Hawke\u2019s Bay, but there is nothing quite like sitting around on the hay bales and making sure that your toddlers learn to gently pick up a chick without squishing it. And again, educating our own children and the townies. But having fun is really important for our rural communities, because it helps us to connect with each other and it\u2019s so good for our wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a really important occasion for us to come together and to feel really good about the places that we live in, and remind the rest of the country that rural New Zealand is such an important part of our economy and a really important community to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis bill will enable the very progressive society in Hawke\u2019s Bay to continue with their innovations such as scholarships and things that will support innovation and investment. It\u2019s a really exciting bill, it\u2019s a simple bill, and it\u2019s wonderful to see something so sensible and practical passing through this House that does something very real to support our rural communities around the country. We know it\u2019s happened before, and it will happen again if necessary, and it is because of this that I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002289ecee2c3d0740a784092839dec0f08b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289ecee2c3d0740a784092839dec0f08b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to add a small contribution in support of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill. I say to Angela Roberts, if she wants to go to the Hastings A \u0026amp; P show, don\u2019t wait till 2024 if she wants to be there as a Labour MP. So I think Anna Lorck should extend the invitation with all haste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I have now got over the crushing disappointment of the Thomas Cawthron Trust Amendment Bill not going to the Governance and Administration Committee, the best and most collegial committee of all of them, with due deference to my colleagues, and I have every confidence that the Governance and Administration Committee will discharge its duties well on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI love getting a little bit of the history of how some of these pieces of land are vested, and I was interested to learn that this was actually initially owned by Robert Wellwood, who was Hastings\u2019 first mayor. The land around what is being considered here was actually a boiling down plant\u2014which is a rendering plant\u2014a railway siding, and a number of other things. When the railway siding went in the railway authority gave it the name of Karam\u016B, but local iwi decided that they didn\u2019t like that name, good old Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu I would expect, and a week later they took that sign down and put the sign Tomoana up, after which the Hawke\u2019s Bay Herald reported that the board intimated as much to passengers that it would be Karam\u016B but \u201Cthe board remained for some days when the M\u0101oris took it down and put up another name bearing the name of Tomoana. And Tomoana it remains.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a fascinating sort of local history of this, and there\u2019s a real provenance around a lot of our A \u0026amp; P show land which for very good reason cannot be divested without a legislative oversight. But that said, this is a good thing to do, the proceeds will remain with the trust for the discharging of similar benefits, and I know the Governance and Administration Committee will do a good job. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a26c5fb0c20d432eae54d56e7960c1ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a26c5fb0c20d432eae54d56e7960c1ea\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker, thank you. There is only one original agricultural and pastoral society, and it\u2019s the Canterbury Agricultural and Pastoral Association, which held its first meeting in 1852 in Hagley Park, right at the heart of Christchurch Central. However, I will not hold that against the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society, who needs a hand to get around what is, it must be said if you look at the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act of 1908, a relatively arcane piece of legislation. It may well be that in the next term or the term after that the Labour Government will have a look at updating that legislation to make it a little bit more amenable to the kind of innovative things that the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society are looking to do in this empowering bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a funny thing that agricultural and pastoral societies are, in fact, incorporated not by registration but by incorporation by Order in Council by the Governor-General. So it\u2019s a somewhat different arrangement. And to find the constitution of the association, we need to go actually to the Gazette to find its incorporating documents there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut this is a sensible piece of legislation because section 7 of the original Act constrains the society to only apply the proceeds of any sale of land to other land which is suitable for the purchasers of the society. And we know in today\u2019s age, we can be a bit more flexible with land holdings. It is perhaps a little unusual to own a large piece of land for 365 days a year, simply to conduct a show for five or six days a year. So it\u2019s entirely reasonable for this transaction to be entered into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI understand that there\u2019s been a fair bit of discussion in Hawke\u2019s Bay, as they\u2019re wont to do over in that part of the country, around the proper use of the land. But I understand that the parties have come to an agreement that the land itself will be held in perpetuity as a reserve but that the society will still be able to use the land for A \u0026amp; P shows into the future. And that seems to be a pretty good solution to me, because we do know\u2014and I do accept that the land, which I understand is situated at the heart of the Tukituki electorate\u2014that the show\u2019s quite an event. It\u2019s something where town and country come together, and, in fact, it\u2019s really quite a fantastic event that people from around the country go to to enjoy the hospitality and produce of the Hawke\u2019s Bay, and, of course, to see the fine pastoral animals that are produced there, and no doubt to take them back to Canterbury, where they can eat proper grass and grow even larger and flourish better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E I do note, though, that it appears from the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act 1908 that the lands held by most A \u0026amp; P societies were held by Crown grant. So it is important, I think, to note that the funds do need to stay within the purview of these societies, because, essentially, these are lands and now assets held in trust for the purposes of agricultural and pastoral societies. I do want to just pause on that and recognise the really important part that agricultural and pastoral societies play, not only as a festival, not only as a kind of industrial show where people in the industry can go and look at new machinery or innovations, but also in actually bringing parties together so that townies can go and have a look at animals, go and see the sheep, pet the ducks, whatever you want to do, and understand that what goes on in our rural communities is an important part of New Zealand society. And I know that the catchcry of bringing town and country together of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society is actually exactly what they should be doing, so that we are one society, we understand each other, we understand the roles we have to play, and so that we build a stronger community together and recognise the important place that both agricultural and pastoral farming play in New Zealand\u2019s society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo this is an absolutely fantastic bill. Perhaps could do with a tidy up of those old Acts in the long run, but at the time this is a really good piece of legislation to take it forward. Kia ora, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcf268ecb0244a458b25152492dc721b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcf268ecb0244a458b25152492dc721b\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to do a closing speech on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agriculture and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill. Can I just acknowledge the member, the local member for Tukituki, for introducing the bill. Alternatively, I would have done it, but I know she\u2019s done a fine job\u2014living not far from the very grounds that we are talking about here, and me living not very far from where she\u2019s living. It is a local bill. Thank you to all the members who have got up in support of what is just a straightforward bill. I have nothing more to add other than to acknowledge those that have contributed tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge all our graduates around the country. And that\u2019s where I\u2019ve been\u2014my own son has graduated tonight as part of the M\u0101ori graduation at Michael Fowler so, as you do, you\u2019ve got to be in two places at once. So I just want to send congratulations, not just to him but to all the recipients in honouring them tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut back to the bill, all those that have spoken, and my connection to Tomoana Showgrounds. Not only is it the place of the best farmers markets in New Zealand and not only is it the place where we have one of the best A \u0026amp; P shows but it\u2019s also one of the places that we first welcomed the Queen, the late Queen, and her husband Prince Philip, back in the early 1970s. And we had over 2,500 Kahungunu warriors that participated in that po\u2019hiri at the very ground that we\u2019re talking about here. So it is embedded not only in the Hastings psyche but it\u2019s built in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and wider region, this Tomoana Showground and what it means for our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo it is a straightforward bill. I do appreciate those members that have taken a call on it, and I am looking forward to it going to the Governance and Administration Committee. I hear it\u2019s a very hard-working select committee, very collegial. This bill, like we\u2019ve all said, is non-controversial, but it does enable the A \u0026amp; P society to not just sell the land and get the proceeds\u2014and that may be something at select committee, in my support of this bill, that we need to be very clear on the society\u2019s objectives, so that people have confidence that once the land is sold they know that those funds are going to be used again for the purposes behind the society and the trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut what\u2019s exciting is that the Hastings District Council has put up their hand to not only buy the land but also ensure that its use continues, because it\u2019s an important part of the Hawke\u2019s Bay fabric and society. But what excites me, yet again, about this bill is the involvement of the local marae, Waipatu, which is just seriously a stone\u2019s throw across from the Tomoana Showgrounds. In fact, the name comes from the very descendants\u2014H\u0113nare Tomoana, right up to the Tomoana wh\u0101nau today, who very much live around that marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo I know that this purchase, or this bill, will usher not only the sale to the council but it will enable the Hastings District Council to have a very close relationship with the marae and the whakapapa that connects this particular ground to that Waipatu marae, Ng\u0101ti H\u0101wea, and also the Tomoana wh\u0101nau. So, Mr Speaker, with those few words, thank you again for this opportunity to speak to this motion. Thank you to all the members who have spoken in support. I look forward to it going and getting properly scrutinised through the select committee, and its ushering back so we can allow that trust and the society to carry on, and for that land to stay in public hands in Hastings, Hawke\u2019s Bay. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229b4f97896ae44c4abbd9b4e4bea50f8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b4f97896ae44c4abbd9b4e4bea50f8c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Hawke\u2019s Bay Agriculture and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022424335c351484efc9f3c59181d74a678\u0022\u003EInstruction to Governance and Administration Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00221e992de275ac47558e059def1765b7a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e992de275ac47558e059def1765b7a7\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That Hawke\u2019s Bay Agricultural and Pastoral Society Empowering Bill be reported to the House by 11 April 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b43d25a2ce704591b07bcd4f6976aea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b43d25a2ce704591b07bcd4f6976aea5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Crimes (Child Exploitation Offences) Amendment Bill and the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fde38427f02a47739dfd5b41c4c3b699\u0022\u003EHOUSE IN COMMITTEE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022107b8e6872264cfd8f5210a2de311bac\u0022\u003EHOUSE IN COMMITTEE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d77767940c8c45dc8ee6572ea5ac6a56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d77767940c8c45dc8ee6572ea5ac6a56\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Crimes (Child Exploitation Offences) Amendment Bill and the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab5f883c1a2f42e69d84154a324d86b4\u0022\u003ECrimes (Child Exploitation Offences) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d802571ca3242df8f93718497d0ebaa\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b0f118c68844258a0dd1425ddc1369c\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b998d7e1072143779a0b4fdbc83a5c80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b998d7e1072143779a0b4fdbc83a5c80\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Crimes (Child Exploitation Offences) Amendment Bill and we begin with the debate on clause 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228741b4b9d7b24f539e0e5b419024d54f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228741b4b9d7b24f539e0e5b419024d54f\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. Sorry, I didn\u2019t want to interrupt, but I seek leave for all questions to be taken as one debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224bb592b0a33b43fabafd5513786e8bf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bb592b0a33b43fabafd5513786e8bf5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. The question is that clauses 1 to 4 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00228dc39fb851f8434cb475ff02146966d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dc39fb851f8434cb475ff02146966d9\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to take a short call just to outline where this bill got to at select committee, and also where we\u2019ve arrived in terms of trying to crystallise the law in this area. The law in terms of, particularly, child grooming and child sex offences is a complex area. It\u2019s one that is carried in a number of different pieces of legislation. What this bill has attempted to achieve is to bring things into one place and to also acknowledge the fact that the grooming of children happens both online and in real life as well, and sometimes those two instances can be occurring simultaneously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo, in the past, we had one offence that sat in the Crimes Act, and that required the perpetrator to travel to and to meet up at a designated location in order for it to qualify in the Crimes Act as sexual grooming. There needed to be a travelling to a point, which seemed quite antiquated. The other part of legislation was in the digital harms space when there was posting of online content, and so what this bill does is it brings together both the online offences and also the in-real-life offences into one space to say that if there are actions from someone over the age of 18 towards someone under the age of 16 that are sexual in their intent and there is harm in that intent and it can be proved before a court of law, then that is a simpler way of trying to describe what is going on as sexual grooming. The intent here is to make it more straightforward to bring a prosecution if possible, and in saying so, it\u2019ll always need to be proven in a court of law for that to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe submissions we heard on this bill changed the direction of the bill quite significantly. When we heard from those non-governmental organisations who work at the coalface of dealing with child sexual abuse, a lot of their comments in the submissions were that the bill needed to change in order to respond to the fact that grooming happened in real life and, more often than not, from those known to the child\u2014known to the victim. So this bill has taken on board all of those submissions. We have taken advice from officials from the Ministry of Justice, and we have also worked collegially across all those members in the committee\u2014who I\u2019d like to thank for their contribution\u2014to arrive at a bill that we hope strengthens the law and, hopefully, makes our country safer for young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00228135819f1e734eb18843764ae4226104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228135819f1e734eb18843764ae4226104\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clauses 1 to 4 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022c653093501b04c32b43df954c8448cd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c653093501b04c32b43df954c8448cd0\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I\u2019m happy to take a short call. Can I start, if I might, by acknowledging the member who is in the chair. Ginny Andersen has done, actually, a really sterling job of ushering this through. It is, I think, a good policy intention. Also, as she acknowledged, it has changed quite a bit, and those who look at the bill will see that, actually, a good part of it has been struck out\u2014but I think it might be a mistake, and the member in the chair is welcome to comment on this\u2014but even though a vast majority of the bill has been struck out, the core intention remains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo my questions to the member are relatively simple. It\u2019s just really seeking an opportunity for her to respond to what this is able to give, this particular bill\u2014what\u2019s it adding on top of existing legislation, because a lot of what we heard was that the likes of the digital harm and harmful communications bill covered a lot of this, and other elements of our criminal Acts. I would appreciate it if she would be able to just elaborate a little bit about what this is achieving beyond what we already have within existing legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022623ce0a487af40719b9af94b611183f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022623ce0a487af40719b9af94b611183f4\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The new section 126B would make it an offence for someone over the age of 18 to digitally communicate with a person under the age of 16, intending to cause harm to the young person or being reckless as to whether the young person is harmed\u2014so it replaces that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn the past, in the previous offence that sat in the Crimes Act, there was an explicit requirement in the Crimes Act for the perpetrator to travel to, and so it, basically, excluded any ability for online harm to be included and it also made it really difficult for a prosecution to be brought when there was an ongoing relationship with the child and the perpetrator. So if they had not made arrangements to travel to an area but yet there was still sexual grooming occurring, that\u2014from police information that was provided to the committee\u2014made it quite difficult to demonstrate before a court of law that there had been sexual grooming. So I think the most significant change that this bill does is it brings both online and in real life into the same space, and it removes that requirement for travelling to a point or a place or a park in order for sexual grooming to be deemed to have occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022518d430c7ecd49eda16a00c302e976cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022518d430c7ecd49eda16a00c302e976cb\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to just say a few words on this bill, which, as the member in charge, Ginny Andersen, acknowledges, is a modest bill in the sense that it makes a small change to an area which is of obviously great concern to, particularly, parents of teenage children, fearful of the possibility of harm being done to them online and through grooming. Ultimately, after going around and around a bit through the select committee process, we\u2019ve landed on this area where it removes the requirement just to actually physically meet, but it still has an offence in terms of online grooming, and in so far as that may make it easier for the police to deal with people who have evil intent in this area\u2014to hold them to account and to keep people safe\u2014we support it in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe only point I would make is that there is some irony, I suppose, where we are contemplating a bill which relates to child exploitation offences and introduces penalties of up to two years\u2019 imprisonment for doing this, and I think a lot of us will be conscious of the fact that this year a young man was convicted of four rapes against young women and ended up with nine months\u2019 home detention. So I suppose there are broader issues around child exploitation and crimes against young children in the sexual sense in the justice system that I don\u2019t think we manage effectively and the justice system doesn\u2019t manage effectively, in coming up with what we would think would be perverse outcomes as a justice system in that respect, where those convicted of heinous crimes are ending up with very modest sentences, yet at the same time we\u2019re passing a bill introducing two-year prison sentences for grooming activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EMy only question, I suppose, I have to the member is\u2014she clearly sees the significance of the crime involved in this legislation and seeks to denounce that act through this legislation. I suppose the only point is what reflections, if any, she has on the broader context of our justice system, and does it send an equally clear message for more serious sexual crimes as well? It\u2019s certainly our view on this side of the House that we do need to send a clearer message\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c518da8209964b9599dd9371871aa913\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfae0d9c277b41d9854a464c23dde941\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and get that through, and I think it is relevant in the context of this debate to make that point, Mr Webb. So, with those final thoughts, I will end my contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022b16edf24ffa74431a3dda403bbe54aec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b16edf24ffa74431a3dda403bbe54aec\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much to the member Paul Goldsmith for that substantial contribution, which I will try to respond to. Look, I don\u2019t take lightly at all the seriousness of online harm to young children. As a parent, I am fearful for my own children in terms of what they are exposed to online. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe know for a fact that paedophiles and that predators prey online and impersonate other children in order to gain access to communicating with our children. If we can strengthen our law, if we can increase penalties, and if we can make it incredibly clear that there will be police who will be watching and looking to make sure our online spaces are as safe as possible, that\u2019s got to be a good thing for our general justice system. The more that we see the prevalence of different online platforms popping up, and how difficult it is to monitor what type of communication and how we can make sure that children remain safe when they\u2019re communicating when they think it\u2019s with people who they can trust, I think it\u2019s incredibly important that we consistently review our legislation and make sure that it\u2019s robust enough to act, where possible, as a deterrent to those who seek to prey upon the vulnerable in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b44785f4b5492593e53338551da3b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b44785f4b5492593e53338551da3b4\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, a very quick question. Again, I think the member responsible has done a very good bill, a good tweak. At the moment, there\u2019s a lot of discussion, broader than this bill, around age\u201418, 17, 16\u2014for various jurisdictions. I just wonder if the member might like to comment that if there were changes to the likes of\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014the voting age to 16\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df963fae583b485b82056a761883349c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06c4975d43b4ee48ce6381d7d367885\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, it is relevant to what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc715a2932845b19df7183302c661e7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no\u2014oh, unless the member can convince me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e59136bd144fb79794750ad9ad6638\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, because in clause 4, new section 131AB, \u201CGrooming for sexual conduct with young person\u201D, states in subclause (1) that \u201CA person aged 18 years or over is liable\u201D. The question following is whether or not we see change to ages such as the voting age\u2014will that change consequently? It is a stretch at one level, Madam Chair, I\u2019d acknowledge, but, actually, it is just trying to get a bit of an indication of whether the member would see some wider changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d937145df0c141719a836d7edef9ae5a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah, thank you. Before I go on, thank you for that. I think it\u2019s on the margins, but if the member in charge of the bill wishes to reply, then it is up to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9defa26e3b24dbb82efca28727896ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9defa26e3b24dbb82efca28727896ec\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I probably would say that if the member had been paying attention in committee, he might have known the answer to that, but I recall that we were having quite a good discussion around what we wanted to capture and where to set those ages. So the idea would be that we didn\u2019t want to capture, essentially\u2014and this was after, I remember, Louisa Wall\u2019s bill, where we discussed the same issue\u2014young people exchanging nude photographs with each other, which occurs quite frequently, so I\u2019m told. If you had everything at 16, you would then be potentially criminalising that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere was a discussion, I remember, that we wanted to set the bar where there was a clear difference. If someone over 18 was having an ongoing communication with someone under 16 and there was sexual content, then those would be the grounds or the sphere to take a look at whether there was inappropriate conduct going on in that space. So that was my recollection of that discussion as to where to set those ages, and I would not see the voting age having an impact upon that. Maybe the change for lawful sex, which is 16\u2014if you wanted to talk about changing that, that may have an impact, but I couldn\u2019t see how the voting age would have an impact upon those ages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022f546ee19c9004a9782b05f06b89d5541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f546ee19c9004a9782b05f06b89d5541\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Can I thank the member in the chair, Ginny Andersen, for that. I would just like to put on the record that I do have an excellent recollection; I just don\u2019t have a recollection\u2014which is now, happily, on Hansard\u2014where both of us can agree on what was discussed. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202f990b75ccc47c2a746cf8496b9e471\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d45b72ae409c4489ae0b5a8c3c4e0d16\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022917b958bc6dc4b4895fee8628a66816f\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 8 and the Schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002205b96f5b74414e208308c081df8fc8ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b96f5b74414e208308c081df8fc8ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill. We begin with the debate on clause 1, with clause 1 being the title of the bill. The question is that clause 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00220af6104001284dd9889d418ccaa31f1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220af6104001284dd9889d418ccaa31f1e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. I move that the debate be heard as one part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb6917bea4c043b9b09ba41e631d9523\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: One question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d2b4afc6a3437eb5cb4c43bada6618\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that the question should be considered as one part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221245e0e5393945bfab00a387f9a5471a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221245e0e5393945bfab00a387f9a5471a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. The question is that clauses 1 to 8 and the Schedule stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022a611d7c736bd4415aa81e8281b6a2b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a611d7c736bd4415aa81e8281b6a2b37\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, if I may, I begin with my thanks to Mr Goldsmith. Just a few remarks to start the discussion: the object of this bill is to extend the time in which a person may make a personal grievance claim in respect of sexual harassment from 90 days to a year, so it extends the time in which the person can make the claim. The reason for doing this is because of the nature of sexual harassment. It is the sort of offence that can floor a person. It can render them unable to act. It can put them in such a position that they really don\u2019t feel capable of facing, in this instance, their employer, so it can take longer than 90 days to have the capacity to make a complaint of sexual harassment. That is why we have asked for the time to be extended to one year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, the bill has come back from the select committee virtually unchanged in its essence, so that central premise of the bill remains as is\u2014the extension from 90 days to a whole year. The changes that members will see in the bill as it has come back from the committee are matters of clarification, or matters where they are ensuring that the bill stacks up with other parts of the Employment Relations Act, just to make sure that there\u2019s no confusion. So the original premise of the bill is unamended by the select committee, but there are matters of clarification. However, I\u2019m happy to speak to those matters of clarification and the matters where we\u2019re linking the bill up with other parts of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut just before I sit down, I do just want to take this opportunity to thank the submitters on the bill, and the officials from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment for their extensive knowledge and expertise. My thanks go to the Education and Workforce Committee, ably chaired by Marja Lubeck; my intern from Victoria University of Wellington, Rowan Selwood-Isles, who helped with this bill; and lawyer Zo\u00EB Lawton, who raised the matter in the first place. And one slightly unusual last thank-you\u2014that\u2019s to my dad, who rang me today to say, \u201CDeborah, your bill is up today, isn\u2019t it?\u201D, and I said, \u201CWell, yes, it is.\u201D He said, \u201CI\u2019ll be watching.\u201D So, Dad, thank you for your support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a19d17fd4cde4b3d9d27aa9a5cb5a7d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a19d17fd4cde4b3d9d27aa9a5cb5a7d6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: No pressure! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbc8287ea3734eeabe147c3f6ae2608a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbc8287ea3734eeabe147c3f6ae2608a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and to Deborah Russell, who has brought in this bill, and to her parents. One can always rely on the support of one\u2019s parents, hopefully, and that\u2019s good to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the basic question that we had\u2014the National Party supports this bill, focused, as it is, on extending the period for raising personal grievances only to matters which relate to sexual harassment. People might ask, \u201CWell, why do you limit it to 90 days in the first place?\u201D, and that is because the vast majority of businesses in this country are small businesses. They have maybe five or three or eight or 12 employees, and the uncertainty that\u2019s created by having an extended period where general personal grievances can be held and then raised with the employers 11 months later would create a very difficult situation, particularly for small businesses. So that\u2019s why it\u2019s limited to 90 days. But the argument put forward by the member in this bill is that sexual harassment is of a different category because of the impact that it has on those who are affected by it and the fact that it sometimes takes quite a long period of time for people to come to terms with it, in so far as they would raise it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no question that sexual harassment has been for a very long time and will continue to be and it is currently an issue that can have enormous impact on the lives of workers up and down the country, and many of us will have experienced it or would have known people who have experienced it, and so we were supportive of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut the thing that I want to clarify from the member responsible for the bill is this. I want to clarify on the record here in Hansard that it is clearly her intention that it is only personal grievances relating to sexual harassment that will be given this extended period and not other sorts of personal grievances, and that by doing this, she isn\u2019t sort of trying to create some sort of loophole for the system that a personal grievance that may have a tangential element of it that may\u2014well, I suppose that\u2019s the question I have for her: how is it that she is going to ensure that this isn\u2019t used as a way to extend virtually all personal grievances to 12 months, which would have a very different impact on the working environment, particularly for those small businesses that are affected? So the first question is: can she reassure the committee that it is her intention that this should be focused purely on those matters which are particularly sexual harassment claims? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1563d65962042d4bc8174a6224ea34a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1563d65962042d4bc8174a6224ea34a\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I want to take a call on this because I wanted to ask you about quite similar things to my friend across the floor. I want to know a little bit more about what the submitters said in terms of their experience of sexual harassment and that necessary time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIn my practice I had, often, young women who were not necessarily identifying this behaviour as being as problematic as it was and minimising it, and that does tend to be a feature of it. I note that people could take such matters under the Human Rights Act. Can you tell me about the actual experiences that you\u2019ve heard about that prompted\u2014sorry, Madam Chair\u2014the experiences that the member Dr Russell heard about that made her consider it appropriate to look at a different time frame, and what kinds of people may access this system, and, particularly, the Employment Relations Authority rather than the Human Rights Commission as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebdd366d96d44e1e8c037c541dc5d1bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebdd366d96d44e1e8c037c541dc5d1bb\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to ask the member in charge of this bill a few questions about it at this committee stage. I was delighted to be part of the select committee that considered this bill and has now reported it back to the House with, as the member has said, not a great deal of amendment but, I would say from the select committee side, some valuable clarifications in terms of the way that this bill works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe matters that I really wanted to ask the member in charge about are the key changes that did come up at the Education and Workforce Committee. There\u2019s a clear part where it\u2019s made very clear that this bill is not retrospective, so it only has effect from when it comes into force in relation to the longer period, which is, obviously, 90 days to one year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI wanted to also just note, as some members have around the Chamber, that this bill would make sexual harassment complaint time frames consistent in the Human Rights Commission jurisdiction and also in the employment relations jurisdiction. I just wanted to ask her about the benefits, perhaps, of that simplicity in relation to human rights claims and employment relations claims, and how that might make the choice of jurisdiction in which to take a sexual harassment claim somewhat simpler by not having that longer period of time in one jurisdiction. I think that, in the past, it might have been the case that people were perhaps forced to choose the area with the longer jurisdiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also wanted to just touch on something that was said by a colleague across the Chamber in relation to the narrow nature of this bill, and how the select committee did, in fact, look at making sure that this only relates to personal grievances for sexual harassment and not other personal grievances. It was something specifically that was looked at in select committee: whether it would be possible to subsequently extend additional claims. Those of us who\u2019ve practiced in employment law and discrimination law know that often it\u2019s not just one grievance that people bring up; it\u2019s perhaps a few different grievances. So the work that the select committee did and the clarification which is now in the bill before the committee is to ensure that it is a narrow bill that affects the particular grievance of sexual harassment and the clarity that brings. So I\u2019d be grateful if the member could elucidate some thoughts on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002268a830abd46b47a8b9d4f94dd1937d4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268a830abd46b47a8b9d4f94dd1937d4d\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E If I may, I\u2019ll just deal with the three speakers and respond to each of them in turn. So thank you for the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Hon Paul Goldsmith talked about the uncertainty for small employers and small business. I agree that that 90-day period does raise a period of uncertainty for employers, and that can be very difficult for small businesses in particular. The cheap answer to this, we\u2019ll say, is don\u2019t engage in sexual harassment then\u2014all right? So that\u2019s the cheap answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think the rather better answer is to say that this does create an opportunity to ensure that those businesses do have good policies and practices in place. It\u2019s always possible, if an employee comes with a claim of sexual harassment, to actually deal with it properly. So that would obviate the need for a grievance in the first place, and, of course, if the employer themselves is committing the sexual harassment, I\u2019m not quite sure why they should be relieved of responsibility for that after a mere 90 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I see an opportunity sitting in there as well for small business, because it should, I hope, prompt the need to put in place good policies and to put in place good workplace procedures, so that it does actually assist businesses to develop those really good workplaces. So there is that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMr Goldsmith spoke of\u2014and my colleague Camilla Belich also mentioned this\u2014whether or not the extension of time related only to sexual harassment, or whether someone could perhaps take the one-year period to make a claim of sexual harassment and then use that to pull other matters into contention as well. As Ms Belich said, that was discussed by the Education and Workforce Committee, and it has been explicitly dealt with in new section 114(7) in clause 6 of the bill, where there have been a couple of clauses introduced which very specifically name section 103(1)(d) of the Employment Relations Act. Now, that is the clause that specifies that someone may bring a claim of sexual harassment. So you\u2019ll see there\u2019s subclause (7)(a) and (b) and it says that for a personal grievance under section 103(1)(d), it\u2019s a period of one year, and in respect of any other personal grievance, the claim has to be brought within 90 days. So that is dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThough I agree it\u2019s a very important matter to deal with, when I said that this bill is very narrow, it is indeed very narrow, and I think we need to keep it that way. There are certainly other areas that could be considered for an extended time, but perhaps in the subject of a separate bill rather than doing it in this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e5c406acd24463acdc4b3f7f15f3f7\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What areas in particular?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d3d53b361742c1ab79aefd08937a6f\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, for example, perhaps we might consider bullying or something like that. But I would like it be considered under a separate bill where the issues could be discussed separately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMy colleague Helen White wanted to know about some of the submissions on the bill. I haven\u2019t brought them with me, unfortunately, or I could have read some of them to you, though we have traversed them at some stages. But I was rereading some of them today. They came from a law blog set up by Zo\u00EB Lawton, called under the influence of the\u2014oh, I can\u2019t remember what it\u2019s called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a31e2c78fa645f68c560c34e380c9ec\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: The Me Too movement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167621ed62d04df69d367b4bec9424b9\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the Me Too movement. I was going to say the \u201CWhat, me?\u201D movement, but it\u2019s the Me Too movement\u2014thank you. Under that, a number of the submitters there talked about the experiences they\u2019d had in law firms of senior employees pressuring them of them being pressured to drink and to engage in various activities which then led to sexual harassment, and the impact that it had on their careers. However, I think the one that I read just today was a different one. It came in as an anonymous submission to the committee and was accepted, and it was from a person who had worked in the hospitality industry for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn the hospitality industry, employees\u2014waiters, wait staff, bar staff\u2014are routinely subjected to sexual harassment from customers, so not just from their employers and not just from their fellow employees but from customers who think it\u2019s quite OK to pat a waitress\u2019 bottom or to pinch her or to make a sexual suggestion. Frankly, people should be do their jobs without having to be sexually harassed, and she talked of the impact that that had had on her. So this is going to be an interesting problem, too, or it should be an interesting problem within the hospitality industry, as to how to ensure that customers behave appropriately as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThank you\u2014we\u2019ve addressed the idea of retrospectivity, but Ms Belich wanted to have a little bit of a think about the consistency with the Human Rights Act. Under the Human Rights Act, of course, a person can bring a claim for gender discrimination. Sexual harassment is one of those things sitting in that space, and it is a 365-day period. So, yes, this 365-day period does now align with the procedures that are available under the Human Rights Act. I think it is good to align the two, and, again, it does raise the issue as to whether there should be other matters that should be extended out to this 365-day period to enable that consistency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think it is useful that an employee can go to the most obvious solution for an employee in respect of sexual harassment, and that is the Employment Relations Act, because that\u2019s the context in which it has occurred. I don\u2019t know that I had that intention with this bill, but it turns out to be one of the happy accidents that make it a better bill for that matter. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad7dc55cbfae4f35b2b124310a795062\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad7dc55cbfae4f35b2b124310a795062\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Firstly, I just want to offer my congratulations to Dr Deborah Russell for what is a good bill, and it was a good process and it was good being on the select committee that scrutinised the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI just want to talk about retrospectivity as well, and ask the member in charge of the bill if she thinks there might be a potential grey area or problem in the way that we have set out this retrospectivity clause, where we say that the sexual harassment action had to have occurred after the commencement of this bill, or it had to come to the notice of the person who was enduring the sexual harassment. Now, the reason I ask this is because there is a potential situation where someone has been sexually harassed for some time before the commencement of this bill and then again after the commencement of this bill, and that person could argue that it only came to their attention because they only realised that it was sexual harassment after the commencement of the bill to bring into line so that they could then work around the retrospectivity clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ELook, it may happen or it may not happen, but I\u2019m just wanting to know whether or not the member in charge of the bill had thought about that, and whether or not, taking that a step further, it\u2019s potentially something for the employer to use against the person to say, \u201CWell, actually, the victim is claiming that this happened before. Therefore, she knew it was before, therefore it is retrospective and, therefore, the claim can\u2019t be brought.\u201D, and potentially use that as a way out. Has the member thought about that? Is there a potential grey area, and are there potential problems? Has she thought that through, and how does she think that that might play out? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022b919d1bbed0845bdaa51e6ae0d666072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b919d1bbed0845bdaa51e6ae0d666072\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank her for the questions. They\u2019re really good ones, and they\u2019re interesting issues to grapple with. There\u2019s a couple of sorts of retrospectivity that the member Erica Stanford has sort of covered in what she\u2019s asked. The first is where there is a pattern of behaviour\u2014so, a series of events, with some of them occurring before the date of the commencement of this bill, and some of them occurring afterwards. Now, in terms of sexual harassment\u2014claiming and then proving sexual harassment\u2014if there was an incident that happened after the commencement of the bill, then that would constitute sexual harassment. The previous events before the commencement of the bill might be evidence to support the claim, but the claim itself comes from the very last incident of sexual harassment. So that\u2019s the first sort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut the next sort of retrospectivity that might be problematic is where the sexual harassment comes to the notice of a person. This is interesting, because we\u2019ve talked about how with sexual harassment, it might sometimes be the case that a person only realises later that it was sexual harassment, and it\u2019s contemplated in the 365-day nature of this that the pattern really does matter. That\u2019s where one off-colour joke probably doesn\u2019t matter too much, but an off-colour joke every day possibly does, or an off-colour joke consistently all the time might constitute sexual harassment of a person\u2014you know, it\u2019s that sort of thing. The pattern of behaviour does matter, and we\u2019ve talked about how someone can be subject to a pattern of behaviour that they only realise with the passage of time constitutes sexual harassment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s not what coming to the notice of a person means\u2014all right? It\u2019s not that someone has a road to Damascus moment and suddenly realises that it was sexual harassment. Coming to the notice of a person is when a person is made aware that this sexual harassment has been occurring. I know that that sounds a little odd, but think about it this way. It turns out that a person\u2019s fellow employees have been sending emails to each other on an ongoing basis discussing the size of her breasts, the nature of the clothes she\u2019s wearing, or whether or not she would be good in bed\u2014all those sorts of things that are sexual harassment. The employee might know that she\u2019s terribly uncomfortable in the workplace, but not really know why until later it comes to her notice that this series of emails was being passed about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s what coming to the notice of a person means. It doesn\u2019t mean that they suddenly understand it; it means that the actual events are brought to their attention. So that\u2019s the sort of retrospectivity there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn that case, they\u2019ve got to make the complaint within 365 days of when it came to their notice. So that would be perhaps\u2014and I can see how this might happen, and it will be for the Employment Relations Authority to sort it out, I suppose. But I can see how it could be the case that a person might have been deeply uncomfortable at work and didn\u2019t understand what was going on, couldn\u2019t quite cope, left, and, a while later, one of her fellow employees\u2014ex-employees now\u2014contacted her and said, \u201CDid you know that there was this series of emails?\u201D That\u2019s coming to their notice, and that would constitute the sexual harassment that sort of kicked off a series of events. But I\u2019m sure that that\u2019s the sort of thing\u2014if that\u2019s what\u2019s intended\u2014that coming to the notice of a person means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo you can see the two different sorts of retrospectivity and how the bill tries to deal with them. Just in terms of the retrospectivity too, we\u2019ve tried to be very, very careful with specifying in the Schedule to the Act as to exactly when the Act takes effect. So it is sexual harassment that occurs or is brought to the notice of a person after the commencement of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002281ed31bbba434b1b87c67229bbde870c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ed31bbba434b1b87c67229bbde870c\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to follow up on that. The act that has to happen, or the sexual harassment act that needs to occur after the bill has come into force\u2014if it is a relatively minor offence and then the worker, say, quits, but all of the sexual harassment up until the point that the bill has passed was very serious, is it the same, bar for that one act after the bill has passed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m trying to explain is that if the act is relatively minor, is it exactly the same test as to whether or not that is sexual harassment, or will they take into account all of the events prior to the bill commencing, which may have been far more serious? Or is it just the same test as it always is to ascertain whether or not that one act did constitute sexual harassment, or will there be a different test for that, given that there were a lot more serious acts going on beforehand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab603ab866ab4bcf8e4dd4b29f328f5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab603ab866ab4bcf8e4dd4b29f328f5a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. That will, in part, be something for the Employment Relations Authority to sort out, based on their previous judgments that they\u2019ve made around what constitutes sexual harassment and what doesn\u2019t. But I can understand the point the member is making, which is: serious event, serious event, serious event, serious event\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250e2f78e584446f19de5f3821b97f31a\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Bill passes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de358e2acb784875821b523c7440c156\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the bill passes, not so serious event, out of the door. That one not so serious event perhaps might not be so serious in itself, but, as we\u2019ve discussed previously\u2014and I can\u2019t tell how the Employment Relations Authority will take this. But the previous events can constitute a pattern of behaviour which would go to the evidence to support that that last event was itself an act of sexual harassment as well. However, that would also be a matter for the Employment Relations Authority to sort out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 8 and the Schedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e261910765e845048fcb26ea76d7dc60\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfc54328ac9e4e1d8d8607bc1a6d5d25\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002282a46433136e4ac5974ab25acf381287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282a46433136e4ac5974ab25acf381287\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Crimes (Child Exploitation Offences) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. The committee has also considered the Employment Relations (Extended Time for Personal Grievance for Sexual Harassment) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c78c0b857f0d42b0a3e64d6f8125eb75\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022562060299b924e02b5f13f8aadd2fd99\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00229a7aa22712aa4dbfb3d89b94387bdf5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a7aa22712aa4dbfb3d89b94387bdf5a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of Ian McKelvie (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei): I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThis is a bill in the name of my colleague and friend Ian McKelvie, and I\u2019m pleased to take the first call in the second reading on his behalf. The bill amends section 235 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhen this bill was considered at first reading it was deemed to be a conscience issue and therefore there was a personal vote. I know Mr McKelvie was pleased that the bill did pass that first reading in order that the Governance and Administration Committee could have a good look at it. While the committee in its report back did not make a recommendation that the bill proceed, because it was a conscience vote, I hope I\u2019m able through this contribution to convince those that were confident enough at first reading that the bill should pass through further stages. And I\u2019ll explain what the committee heard and did as a consequence of that deliberation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, section 235 is the \u201CUse of unlicensed premises as place of resort for [the] consumption of alcohol\u201D; drinking dens, effectively, although \u201Cplace of resort\u201D isn\u2019t defined further in the Act. The need for this bill arose because a number of small race meetings that have been a great tradition of New Zealand\u2014often, summer\u2014life were perceived to be under threat because of the way police and the licensing authorities were deeming them, relative to section 235. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f97bb5fc99ab498a998c9ad1715e0500\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Wowsers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2458fdfea64729827036f3050e2a4b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you may very well say that, Mr Court, but I wouldn\u2019t possibly comment. We heard 22 submissions, and they were pretty much divided between the sort of alcohol health watch - type authorities who were opposed to this bill, and people in the local communities and the racing industry who supported the bill. Now, I want to say from the outset that those who opposed the bill\u2014I and other members of the committee absolutely agree with them that there is a risk of harm from inappropriate and excessive consumption of alcohol. But I submit that in order to reduce that harm one needs to make sure that the risk is managed where it occurs. And my interpretation of the submissions that we heard in support of this bill was that wherever that risk may occur, it is not at our country race meetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, ever since I was a child\u2014certainly for most of the last 20 years\u2014I\u2019ve been a regular attender at the Central Otago Trotting Club\u2019s annual race meeting in the beautiful town of \u014Cm\u0101kau in the Matakanui Valley. Now, \u014Cm\u0101kau only has about 250 people but the population swells to about 7,000 on the day of the trotting meeting. I go every year with my family, we sit under a tree with a picnic blanket, chairs, and a chilly bin, a couple of beers, you know, a wine or two, and we catch up with friends and family. The racing is almost incidental. Certainly having a glass of wine with our lunch is incidental. And for nearly 100 years, that went without a hitch, until about 2016 in the wake of a court case around place of resort definition that had nothing to do with racing. But as a consequence, the police then started to become more active in opposing licences where BYO at race meetings would be enabled. And it really was prompted by the Central Otago Trotting Club and others like it that Mr McKelvie introduced this bill. So I want to commend them and Graham Sinnamon, who came to present on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to just elaborate on harm or the absence of it at the race meeting that I attend and love every January. The trotting club provided evidence from St John and the local GP practice of the typical event. I was there in January 2016 where St John, at the event, recorded six casualties, amongst which were two headaches, one sunburn, two other skin injuries, and one fainting. The local GP practice reported seeing 27 patients on that day, none of which presented after having been at the \u014Cm\u0101kau races. Centennial Health in Tarbert St in Alexandra also saw a number of patients that day, one of which came from the \u014Cm\u0101kau races, and that was a muscle strain in a lady who raced in the family fun race day. Now, police also told me when I was the Minister of Police in 2015 that in the 15 years since they have had alcohol breath testing, screening testing at the exit to the \u014Cm\u0101kau races, in those 15 years with, who knows, maybe 50,000 cars having gone through breath tests, one failed. There was no conviction because it was actually tested on a private part of the land and therefore wasn\u2019t on a public road at the time. It was more a prevention issue. One failure out of 50,000 cars in 15 years. That says to me that BYO at small races is not a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, there was an element of the bill that did need tightening up because the way the bill was introduced, it had a much broader definition of a race meeting than the Governance and Administration Committee were comfortable with. So in essence we\u2019d be giving a pass to the Riccartons and the Addingtons, and so on. That was not the intention. The intention was to enable BYO at the smaller race meetings, so we\u2019ve changed the definition to make it very clear that what we\u2019re talking about is race meetings. I think there has to be no more than three a year at the club, and that\u2019s appropriate because it\u2019s not broader than that. That\u2019s not the problem we\u2019re trying to solve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, police were very helpful and provided good testimony about how they determine a place of resort. And on their website, they have three features that need to exist, all three of which need to exist in order for place of resort to be considered. They are people gathering specifically to drink, rather than just incidental; drinking that reaches a certain threshold of intensity involving more than isolated or casual consumption; and the BYO aspect being \u201Cactively facilitated.\u201D Now, all three of those things need to be present, according to police, before they would take action or oppose a licence application. Unfortunately, that\u2019s not been\u2014well, the submissions that we got from racing clubs suggested that what police were doing seemed to be at odds with their own guidance on place of resort. And I\u2019m not being critical of police. They are taking a harm minimisation approach and I understand that. But the important thing, as I see it, is to make sure that risk is managed where it occurs. It\u2019s not occurring at the \u014Cm\u0101kau or Wairoa or Mataura or Roxburgh racing clubs and therefore this very, very longstanding tradition of summer carnival races where people go along to go in the family fun race, to do the fashion in the field and the other\u2014you know, the tombola and the rides around the volunteer fire engine that the kids will do, and maybe have a glass of wine under the tree with their lunch\u2014should continue because that is not where the harm occurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo, despite my support for this concept, I did take an objective look at the risk to make sure that we weren\u2019t creating unintended consequences. And with the exception of the definition of which race meetings we were talking about, which we fixed, I\u2019m satisfied that this bill can proceed without there being an increase in harm from alcohol consumption. And I think it behoves us as a House to make sure that we do put our efforts towards identifying that risk and reducing it where it occurs. This is not where it occurs. So I\u2019m glad that those members of the House took the step to refer this bill to the select committee. I want to give them the confidence that the committee, having considered it carefully, was satisfied that the risks of harm are low and that there is merit in the bill proceeding so that this summer, and every summer, we can continue\u2014those who do\u2014to enjoy our summer carnivals under the tree in those beautiful spots right around the country, and have a glass of wine or a beer incidental to our picnic, as we always have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00224c0fed53a28a4e66a233a0dd5f68b506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c0fed53a28a4e66a233a0dd5f68b506\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI had the pleasure of sitting on the select committee that considered the bill, and I do want to acknowledge my colleague Ian McKelvie, who is a very fair chair of our committee, and whose bill this is. And so I do want to acknowledge him and the work that he has done on the bill, and we did consider it throughout the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is treating this bill as a conscience issue and just as we did in the first reading, members will be exercising their vote according to their conscience. I voted in favour of the bill going to the select committee. I wanted to hear submissions and advice from officials before making a decision on whether I would support it further. And before I make some comments on how I\u2019ll be voting tonight, I wanted to make some comments about the Governance and Administration Committee report that I felt was quite important we put on the record tonight in this second reading, because it actually speaks more broadly to conscience issues and the role of the select committee in that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhen it came to the time of adopting our report, we actually had some to-ing and fro-ing as a committee in terms of what we would put into the bill about a recommendation. When select committees consider bills, one of the requirements of the committee is to consider and make a recommendation about whether the bill should pass. We had quite a conversation about this at select committee because a number of us felt very strongly that it wasn\u2019t necessarily the role of the select committee to make a recommendation to the House about how the House should treat a bill, given that it was a matter of conscience. So in the end we elected\u2014and I might just read out what we wrote into the commentary. The five of us that sit on this committee were all of a shared view, the National and Labour members on the committee. What we noted here was: \u201CWe note that the vote on the first reading of the bill was treated as a conscience issue. We have therefore made recommendations for amendments to improve the bill\u2019s workability, but leave broader consideration of the bill\u2019s merits to the full membership of the House. We do not consider that it is appropriate for us to make a recommendation to the House about the bill passing, given the bill is a conscience issue. We encourage all members of the House to consider the bill, and our amendments, and form their own conclusions about the bill\u2019s passing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOn that note, we have also written to the Standing Orders Committee, as a select committee, about this issue more generally. So I did want to give that explanation to the House tonight as to why we hadn\u2019t got to a point of making a recommendation in the select committee report. It is ultimately up to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll just talk a little bit about some of the work that we did do, and what we did hear while considering this bill. Mr Woodhouse has already made some comments about restricting some of the work that we did do, and that we did hear while considering this bill, and Mr Woodhouse has already made some comments about restricting the clubs that this applies to, to those that have three or more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699ac7acbb4345eeb38d206bc0d37d26\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288764f791c814f6fa9a9c6272c23673c\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Three or fewer! Thank you, Mr Woodhouse\u2014three or fewer race meetings a year, and that we use the definition of \u201Csmall racing club\u201D. One of the questions I had during this process is that a club may be small by that definition of the Act in terms of the number of meetings it holds a year, but those meetings in and of themselves may be large in number, in the number of people who attend, and therefore there is the ability for there to be harm caused by alcohol. Because if you have a very large number of people at an event, the potential for harm to be caused does start to be increased somewhat. And so we did ask officials about whether this was an issue that we could rectify, but we were having to work within the definitions of the Act and, unfortunately, we would probably need to have done some further amendments to the Act around the size of the event as well, and that proved somewhat difficult at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThat is one of the reasons that I won\u2019t be able to support this bill further. I want to note that I have, in my time, attended racing events, and do enjoy the social aspect of attending racing events. But for me, I\u2019m not convinced\u2014having sat in the select committee\u2014that this bill is actually needed. Clubs that are looking to have a bring-your-own alcohol element are able to apply for a licence for that purpose, so there is already a process existing within the law that allows for that. We did hear from the Police and from the Ministry of Health, and my understanding is that there are concerns about the potential for more alcohol harm to be caused from allowing people to bring their own alcohol without having some level of oversight in place through the provision of a special licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI also note that some of the clubs have also told us that they actually rely on bar sales in order to make revenue at their events, and that they would be concerned at revenue loss if they saw some form of bring-your-own without that oversight. So I look forward to hearing the rest of the debate tonight, and I have enjoyed hearing submissions on this bill, I\u2019ve enjoyed working alongside my colleagues on the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014we did give this bill due consideration and, as I note, the committee did get to a point where we felt it was up to the House to make the final decision on whether this bill should proceed. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00227a5e3900433c42a8958243ac0ff385a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a5e3900433c42a8958243ac0ff385a8\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this matter, and it\u2019s my first call on a conscience vote. I thought very, very carefully about this bill, and I wasn\u2019t at all decided at the beginning, because things do pull in different directions. I\u2019d probably be what Mr Woodhouse called an alcohol watch - type, but I\u2019m going to vote in support of the bill, and I\u2019d just like to explain why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI think that alcohol does an enormous amount of harm, but I have real issues with prohibition of any of these substances, and I voted for the legalisation of marijuana because I don\u2019t think that these kinds of prohibitions work. I think that Government has a really strong role, but it should focus on things where it can\u2014by evidence\u2014actually reduce harm. And I think that\u2019s an incredibly important principle in this area. So I want the law to have a light touch. I\u2019m not at all convinced there won\u2019t be people who drink to excess at such events, and I\u2019m not actually a particular fan of gambling, either. But I do appreciate that the problem of alcohol can live in your own home, it can live absolutely everywhere, and that it\u2019s not particularly associated with picnics at racing events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI think that it\u2019s really important that we do simplify people\u2019s lives as much as we can. So I don\u2019t think it\u2019s been that hard to make a decision in support of this bill. I think it\u2019s important that these local events are encouraged. I don\u2019t particularly want bars to make money out of such events, and I really do want those events to happen, because we have been a little disconnected over the last couple of years, and it would be nice if we can be reconnected. I hope that isn\u2019t through alcohol, but I don\u2019t think that that\u2019s the purpose of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m going to vote in support of this bill, and I\u2019m going to vote in support of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s bill later when it comes up, because I see that bill as very much targeted at where the harm is occurring with alcohol. So I hope that the consistency of that position can be seen by the explanation I\u2019ve given now. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe1afdd5bf864e5db06361b1f15edfa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe1afdd5bf864e5db06361b1f15edfa4\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, the ACT Party will support Mr McKelvie\u2019s proposal. We believe that people attending race meetings in their communities should have the right to responsibly drink with friends, with family, with club members. And that\u2019s because the ACT Party trusts New Zealanders; we believe in personal responsibility; we believe that Kiwis should be trusted to take a beer, a bottle of wine, a cider, even\u2014if it was a race meeting in West Auckland\u2014a four-pack of Woodstock (Woodies) and drink that out of the back of the ute while they wait for the horse race to start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, apart from the Avondale Racecourse, which is more than likely to end up becoming a property development than seeing another horse race any time soon\u2014I\u2019m not sure where in West Auckland that\u2019s likely to happen. But when we\u2019re thinking about it means to live in a small community, to not have all of those country pubs, all of those cosmopolitan clubs that we used to have in New Zealand, because as New Zealanders are drinking much, much less than they used to\u2014both in volume and in concentration\u2014the sale of alcohol through retail premises has actually declined significantly in the past few decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, when I was at university, it was common for a beer tanker to be driven onto the university campus and for all the students to grab a milkshake cup which had a giraffe on the side of it, and that said \u201CThe longest drink in town\u201D, and to drink as many of those cups as they could until they drank the tanker dry. And that was a great fund-raising activity for the student union.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, some people these days might think that\u2019s irresponsible drinking. But when I was a student, and many of the students of that time\u2014including no doubt Young Labour, Young Nationals; can\u2019t remember Young Greens being there\u2014would have enjoyed a \u201Clongest drink in town\u201D to drink the tanker dry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s not common these days; New Zealanders drink far less and they tend to drink far higher-quality drinks, such as all of those fantastic craft beers brewed by micro brewers in places like Wellington, Auckland, and around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo if we\u2019re thinking about what it means to drive\u2014because it\u2019s unlikely there\u2019s public transport to a lot of these small rural race meets, simply because it\u2019s not possible to deliver public transport services to every small town in every region, all of the time\u2014it\u2019s more than likely that the people going to these events will have a driver. I\u2019m sure they will nominate a sober driver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure they\u2019ll take food\u2014a picnic\u2014because they\u2019ll be going for the day. So not only will they have a sober driver, but a picnic, lots of things to eat, probably a range of non-alcoholic drinks, bottled water, dare I say. They\u2019ll have a few beers, wines, ciders, or\u2014if this was that mythical race meeting in West Auckland\u2014some Woodies, some pre-mixed bourbon and colas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAnd I trust the Kiwis going to that race meeting\u2014that they will drink responsibly, they will pick up their cans and bottles, they\u2019ll put them in the recycling, and that at the end of the day, when the race meeting\u2019s over, the carpark or the grass parking area will be left clean and tidy and that everybody who leaves there will go home, cared for by a sober driver\u2014and that the chance of harm coming to Kiwis going to this kind of thing is very, very minimal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAnd yet, we have heard members, including the fearful Rachel Boyack\u2014who\u2019s heard from different health groups and others that this could cause alcohol harm\u2014that that member is so fearful of this risk of people drinking a couple of ciders or a craft beer and harm might come to a group of people. So as a result, that member\u2019s stated that she will exercise her conscience and vote against the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, what has New Zealand come to, where we can\u2019t accept, or some of us can\u2019t accept, the small risk that somebody might make a mistake and they might drink a little bit too much and then, I don\u2019t know, they might say something to a family member or they might say something to a friend that they regret in the morning\u2014or who knows? They might decide that, actually, they don\u2019t like racing after all and they\u2019d rather be at a motor sport event. Who knows what kind of mistake they might make?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut thinking this is only exempting small racing clubs and that, as introduced, the bill would provide for all racing clubs to be exempted\u2014but not all racing clubs need or want the exemption. That\u2019s because larger clubs often have the resources and staff to provide hospitality services and do not want attendees to bring alcohol on to the premises. So the recommendation back from the committee is that this exemption for race meetings really should only apply to small clubs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo then we\u2019re thinking about how much harm could possibly be caused by allowing for this exemption. Yet, apparently, for some members of this House, they are afraid of any harm. And isn\u2019t it that \u201Cafraid of any harm\u201D approach which has really led New Zealand to where we are today\u2014where, for over 104 days in Auckland last year, the city was locked down after one case of COVID was reported; one case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a453b88cb34330b0d5052522137ea5\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: How much harm was caused by that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeaa058ccb3842239edeef477a6ea127\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: The harm from COVID became the one thing that this Government was worried about. When for Aucklanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b485f18183f49bdb7c6fc4d0ece342e\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: My daughter is still afraid of talking to other people. It\u2019s terrible what the lockdown did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022718f5f8fd5c14c0f96c116f927b33707\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that\u2019s right\u2014for 1.7 million Aucklanders, the harm we were worried about was the fact that people who were stuck at home were young people locked out of education, and then having police sent to the regional border to check truck drivers\u2019 papers, that there might be this other harm called out-of-control crime. But apparently, the harm that a couple of people might accidentally do to themselves in the carpark of a small horse racing club in a small town is so significant that some members believe they should vote against the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWell, the ACT Party says, \u201CWe trust Kiwis.\u201D We think that Kiwis should be able to make the odd mistake and that if they trip over on the wet grass at the racing club or at the trotting club after having an accidental tip over\u2014and whether that\u2019s because the ground was slippery and there was no warning sign to say, \u201CBe careful, slippery wet grass\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaaaecda72274460b5817b2de2d5df7e\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Where was the road cone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c44a62159b424157957e9a39b5e27b68\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Or, as the member said, there were no road cones there to identify where the pothole was in the carpark\u2014or potentially they drank one too many Woodies and then they fell over! Well, the ACT Party says that the risk of that kind of harm happening is so minimal that the members of this House should all unilaterally support this wonderful exemption that would allow small racing clubs to sell and supply alcohol to members and visitors\u2014those attending race days. It\u2019s part of our culture. We are responsible people in New Zealand; we are responsible drinkers, far more responsible than we used to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIn fact, some of us consider that we\u2019re responsible enough that Kiwis should also even be allowed to smoke cannabis, for example, which is why I personally voted \u201CYes\u201D in that referendum. Because personal responsibility should extend to all aspects of our life. So I do appreciate the Green member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s offer to take her call on this bill because she felt that her contribution would be made at the time of voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut as an ACT member representing New Zealanders up and down the country, people who like to have a drink, go to the horse racing, and trust someone to get them home safely afterwards\u2014ACT says, \u201CWe\u2019ll be supporting this bill and we urge all the other members of the House to get up and do so.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00226b36f8e91f164466be29cf0fd34d57fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b36f8e91f164466be29cf0fd34d57fd\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I am glad to be able to take a short call on this bill tonight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223096fd8ff28d4a11982a2ed5373cdfa0\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re all merry\u2014a very merry Christmas!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a6c6fc9de1741a1970a5f2e0da7bfc2\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you\u2019re feeling very merry about it, Simeon Brown\u2014and part of the reason for that is actually just to address the actual content of the legislation, which pertains to the ability to bring your own, not, as the previous speaker, Simon Court, was referring to, with regard to sale and supply. It is, of course, an amendment to the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, but it does not enable more sale and supply at the place that these horse racing events are occurring; it enables people to bring their own alcohol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, in a nutshell, as was already expressed by the member for Nelson very ably, in canvassing the select committee process here, a licensing regime for events like this already exists. And it was really fascinating just listening to the contribution before and some of the heckling that was going back and forth. The speaker prior to me, Simon Court, was saying that people should be able to make a mistake, and the same member, who is now heckling, was saying that that\u2019s a revolutionary notion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe were also hearing from the speaker prior about the equivalence between alcohol and cannabis. So let\u2019s talk about those equivalences, because, if we were to take the same logically consistent approach to cannabis as we do to alcohol, for example\u2014as was proposed in the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill\u2014we would be looking at placing far more restrictions on the way that we currently offer the sale and supply of alcohol in this country. I\u2019d ask the member heckling before, Simeon Brown, whether he\u2019s comfortable with those 120,000 New Zealanders who made the mistake of personally possessing cannabis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c66497259564760bd7f4a268a179634\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the member\u2019s consistency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e87d1cec514e9da742f132da0e9d8a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who went on to get convictions, since the 1980s. The consistency, Simeon Brown, has been laid out for you many times before, including when I offered to meet with you about this many times, which is that there is a spectrum of approaches that we can take to substances in this country, whether they be alcohol or tobacco or cannabis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, if I may, we have heard wide-ranging debate on the equivalence of cannabis, prior, from other speakers, and I think that it\u2019s really important that we do address this, because we are talking about consistency of approaches to drug-harm reduction. Alcohol, of course, is the drug which has the highest amount of macro harm in this country. A quarter of New Zealanders who engage in drinking do so to harmful ends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c211fa02defa45fc9d3a95595ee7e9ba\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And let\u2019s just do it in the context of the bill, which other speakers have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973c2e8a63ce4cab91cd2bc5c6453018\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and so have I, Mr Speaker. A licensing regime already exists\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e4111d84b748549721651ddc5abc0a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c2706f87364157bb1c795c4f69b7b3\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is therefore not necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00228d863537549a413b9dd637742b9c3cf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d863537549a413b9dd637742b9c3cf5\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the contribution from my colleague. The crux of the matter of this bill, the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill\u2014and I like the collegial nature of the debate. I live in rural New Zealand, and this speaks to all things rural. And we\u2019ve canvassed it previously tonight. Going to enjoy the carnival reality of small races in and around provincial New Zealand\u2014it happens all the time, although it\u2019s a diminishing reality\u2014and sharing in a lovely meal, a lunchtime meal, and perhaps a bottle of wine with family and maybe one or two beers; this is not an environment that perhaps the previous member articulated, which is an environment that would purport to create an environment of binge drinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been to several race meetings in my 30-plus years living in rural New Zealand. These are usually small gatherings, and this bill has spoken to that very reality by virtue of putting a caveat in it, which said that this applies to the small race meetings in these venues that gather no more than three times per year. I mean, suffice it to say\u2014and I think we\u2019ve got to just go over this\u2014this is another slow decline or degradation of rural New Zealand. This is not just an environment you give a whole lot of country people an excuse to drink. This is a simple reality that people go to rural New Zealand events. Somebody in the country happens to be horse racing, why shouldn\u2019t they enjoy in a licensed environment the ability to share one or two beers with a few friends and drink?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f933483c960540ee86f2416288069c93\u0022\u003EHon Member:\u003C/span\u003E They can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d2fa4c8e644faea936ec7c18e05a4d\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: No, not in this instance, they can\u2019t, and this is the point. This is the point. This creates an environment\u2014I\u2019m sorry to the member over there. I\u2019m not sure if she actually lives in a rural community like I do, but it is a reality that without BYO, a lot of these people and their patrons don\u2019t attend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAnd in the free marketplace of ideas and debate which is this House, I\u2019m sorry to the member on the other side of the House. You\u2019ve actually got it fundamentally wrong. This bill seeks to balance that reality. The ACT Party does support that rationale. And to the previous member of the ACT Party that spoke this evening, New Zealanders are becoming more conscious of alcohol and the potential harm and abuse that it can cause in urban and rural New Zealand. That notwithstanding, New Zealanders are now much more cognisant of it. We see routinely young people more cognisant of the damage that\u2019s happening to themselves and their surrounding persons and community. We maintain this is a balanced view. It balances up the wellbeing of small rural communities and those that go to race meetings and the potentiality for any harm. We support this legislation. Thanks very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022592f5f3c6b9f4a3c87c2a9a8ce0e5351\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022592f5f3c6b9f4a3c87c2a9a8ce0e5351\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh look, it would be lacking if an O\u2019Connor didn\u2019t stand up and actually speak on an alcohol bill. I probably just impugned a pile of O\u2019Connors across the country, but anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m actually happy to support this. I think, whenever there are competing issues, rights, goods, values, whatever you want to say, there\u2019s always a bit of a competition. And some of the debate and discussion rightly tonight is on alcohol harm. It\u2019s one of, if not the worst drug, if you will, that exists in this country, and causes enormous, enormous amounts of harm. I suppose the counterfactual is that it\u2019s something that\u2019s been socialised into human history for at least 6,000 years of recorded history, which for me begins to knock out a whole lot of the other drugs which people try to compare things with. Tonight\u2019s not for us to discuss, I would say, everything from fentanyl to methamphetamine\u2014get my tongue around that\u2014through to cannabis and others, which is just a new harm. We\u2019ve got the smarter approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, really, just what I want to draw attention to is this is a very good particular bill. I think Ian McKelvie, as an electorate member of this House, is responding to a need which he has seen in his community and across New Zealand, which is ultimately that small racing clubs with moderate means are just wanting a little bit of flexibility around alcohol laws. And understandably, when this Parliament passes the overarching laws which we do around, well, anything to be honest, but in this case alcohol, it doesn\u2019t always fit every circumstance. We try as best we can, but it doesn\u2019t always fit. And so this is just a very simple tweak tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOthers have referenced why there\u2019s a difference between, say, small and large racing facilities. Quite simply, the larger ones\u2014in the likes of my electorate\u2014they are well managed, they are huge, large incomes, they\u2019ve got plenty of staff, it\u2019s easy to manage in this space. Much, much smaller racecourses struggle. So I think this is, for me, quite sensible. But I think, again, it\u2019s prudent that there\u2019s discussion and debate around harm. But personally, as someone who has gone to the races, as an Irish Catholic family, it\u2019s very much part of our\u2014I don\u2019t know what you\u2019d call it\u2014tradition. By and large, if not most of the time\u2014I\u2019m not talking about my family here\u2014for those going to the races, it\u2019s well respectful for what they\u2019re doing. I\u2019m not actually particularly worried about any particular harm or harms that is going to come from this. I think it\u2019s a sensible move. I think it\u2019s a good, proactive\u2014actually, it\u2019s not proactive; it\u2019s a reactive move, strictly. As I say, Ian McKelvie is responding to what he\u2019s heard from his constituents. And if our Parliament is to do anything proper and right, it is to respond to the people on the ground saying, \u201CHey, we want this law change.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, it\u2019s clear, listening to the contributions tonight and reading the select committee report, there\u2019s been a lot of discussion and debate around how this could be improved or changed\u2014is it necessary or not? Again, I\u2019ll be supporting this time, because I think it is in the right space. And look, I can\u2019t speak\u2014I come from the great electorate of T\u0101maki in the heart of urban Auckland. We\u2019ve got the likes of the Ellerslie Racecourse there and just across the ball at Alexandra Park. It\u2019s not going to affect these guys. They already do an amazing job. But when I think of some of the smaller racecourses that I visited over the years, and different members will have gone around\u2014I think my dad, if he goes up to the likes of, I don\u2019t know, Dargaville or Ruak\u0101k\u0101, they need a little bit more help and support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I think this is a sensible move. Look, for those who are concerned\u2014and rightly so. I think there\u2019s been discussion and debate tonight. I don\u2019t think anyone\u2019s actually wrong. This is the nature of any of these sorts of conscience votes\u2014anything that\u2019s particularly ethical. I don\u2019t think anyone\u2019s wrong. If, for some reason, we find in six months or six years that this change in legislation has increased harm, I\u2019ll be one of the first to stand in support to repeal it\u2014to pull it back. But I think this is quite sensible. And realistically, it\u2019s very particular and also it\u2019s relying on Kiwis, particularly those that we know in the rural provincial areas, who actually are quite responsible. That\u2019s a really important starting point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe next point I want to make is there\u2019s always a lot of debate, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll have it later in the House or in the coming weeks\u2014it\u2019s always around the phrase \u201Charm minimisation\u201D. And it\u2019s an appropriate phrase to use. But as I pointed out before to media and other outlets or other points of debate: where do you want to put the emphasis on that little phrase\u2014harm minimisation? Some people will always put their focus on the word \u201Cminimisation\u201D; that\u2019s fine. I put the focus on harm. Ultimately, I don\u2019t think this is going to create the wave of harm which some are concerned about. But I just again want to stress, for those who vote against this bill, it\u2019s the absolute, for them, right thing to do, and I think there\u2019s a nuance in this debate. I think it\u2019s one of those little ethical issues which is not, if you will, black and white. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd on that, I want to finish with one thought coming out of this second reading, and it\u2019s related to this bill specifically, but it\u2019s also broader. I am concerned with this House that we\u2019re having select committee reports coming back from, well, strangely enough, the select committee that do not take positions, and I think that\u2019s unfortunate. I want to be really, really clear to the select committee responsible for this that I do understand. I\u2019ve sat on many select committees\u2014arguably a select committee that\u2019s dealt with probably the most contentious, or, actually, one of the most contentious issues, and it too chose to go down the route of \u201CWe as a select committee should not give an opinion.\u201D I think that\u2019s a valid argument. I think the idea of the select committee taking a fairly neutral approach, reporting back to the House, allowing this whole Chamber to make a decision, is a consistent position, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the right one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EFor me personally, I actually trust my colleagues across the House. It doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re left, right, blue, green, red, it doesn\u2019t really matter. When we send these bills to the select committee, I\u2019m wanting my colleagues, as with this bill, to examine it and to tell me what their conscience, what their beliefs, what their mind thinks. I\u2019m grown up enough, old enough, grumpy enough to be able to\u2014I was hoping, actually, someone would call me out there to say I\u2019d misled the House, but anyway. I am grumpy enough that I can actually look at what other people say and make my own decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I suppose what I\u2019m trying to say, and in closing, is I really hope that select committees, including the ones that I am on, for conscience votes and for personal votes to be strictly correct in the future, do actually make an opinion, like they should have on this Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill. Use their reason, use their conscience, use their beliefs, and report that back to the House. I actually think that\u2019s going to enrich the debate when we see the different views, because, actually, all 119 of us currently can exercise our judgments. We\u2019re not going to be misled, misguided in any way when we get to a second reading. So it\u2019s just a plea from me to have that happen. I think it\u2019s becoming a little bit of an unfortunate norm in this House that we come back with these, \u201COh, we can\u2019t really say much about the bill. We\u2019ll just leave it to the whole House.\u201D No. Guide us. Give us your thoughts, give us your opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn fact, the more robust that the report could have been out of the select committee on this Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill, that will actually spur thought. And in a bizarre way, this is happening now tonight. This has actually been one of the better debates, personally, all day. As different people have shared their thoughts and nuances, it\u2019s created reactions and counter-reactions\u2014that\u2019s a great thing. And I personally feel, had we got to this second reading with a better report, a more personal conscience-led report from the select committee, we\u2019d be in a better place. But I do want to finish by saying this: this is no reflection on that particular committee or the work that\u2019s been done. I\u2019ve sat on many committees that have come to a similar position, and I think that\u2019s not quite the right space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut anyway, as I say, I will be supporting this bill tonight. I am looking forward\u2014I think one person mentioned earlier that this could be their first conscience or personal vote. Fantastic. It\u2019s a great moment. Make sure you point very clearly at your name as you move on through. It\u2019s a great moment. It\u2019ll confuse a number of our colleagues that the bells keep ringing before 10 o\u2019clock, but, actually, these are important moments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnyway, I\u2019m just going to pause because I suspect someone else who\u2019s probably quite important around this bill might want to take a call, not only because he\u2019s here, it\u2019s also because his wife, I suspect, is in the gallery. And it\u2019ll be really important for him to take a call at some point. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbe48e14f2ce4b93a4c43a274281edc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbe48e14f2ce4b93a4c43a274281edc1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just indicate to members at the moment that there are now five speaking slots left, and that they will be allocated by way of calls, since we actually seem to be out of proportionality right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae9a3e57a022493887340c3ab33c42fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae9a3e57a022493887340c3ab33c42fc\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E OK, Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just wanted to take a short call to go on record just to put my own local racing club, which I imagine that my friend and colleague Ian McKelvie was actually considering when he put this bill together\u2014small-country racing clubs that are the heart of some little communities, and especially in the racing circuit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI was the clerk of scales for many years on the West Coast, and I did the whole West Coast circuit over the summer. I can tell you that those little community events are very important to community connectedness. They\u2019re run by volunteers who work all year to provide a day out for one or maybe two days a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve gone through some hard times in the past. A lot of them are aged facilities so they rely on fund-raising and they rely on the income that they derive from their race meetings to maintain those facilities and keep up with the constant changes of rules, health and safety regulations, etc. that they have to implement on the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESecurity has played a big part in sucking some of the revenue out of those small organisations. The last thing we need is the fun police to come along and shut down one of the main sources of income on race day. I can tell you that the security is so tight that if you trip over a rock, the police will deem you intoxicated and remove you from the track. There is no way that people are going to be able to abuse the system on race days because of the tight rules that are now around, in terms of security and watching for people who do abuse the alcohol intake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI\u2019m standing in support of this piece of legislation that I hope will go through tonight, or at least\u2014yes, it is its third reading tonight, because I think it\u2019s really sensible that we include small race meetings in a different category than we do to others. I totally commend my colleague Ian McKelvie for raising this issue in defence of these small clubs around New Zealand. We\u2019ve even lost clubs on the West Coast due to some of the retrenchment that happened under the former Labour coalition Government. That was a real disaster for some of our small clubs that have been around for over 100 years, and now those places are abandoned. It\u2019s a real tragedy and a dishonour to the people who maintained them for many, many years. So I speak in support of this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002237bc109312eb4d2493e22fd4f559e264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237bc109312eb4d2493e22fd4f559e264\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just indicate there are two five-minute calls available in call nine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00225d103a9d5c6b4ebd91c151e1194471b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d103a9d5c6b4ebd91c151e1194471b2\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E May I take both of them, Mr Speaker? It\u2019s been an interesting conversation this evening, and also an interesting evening when we have two bills around alcohol: the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill and, of course, the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill. As I listened intently\u2014mostly\u2014this evening, I feel like there\u2019s sort of a \u201Cwe\u2019re responsible drinkers\u201D and \u201Cshe\u2019ll be right\u201D and, you know, we\u2019re going to be party poopers and that type of thing for those of us who voted against this. I mean, personally, I know I\u2019d love to have a greater conversation around the review of looking at the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, but that\u2019s not for tonight\u2019s debate\u2014that is around the exemption for race meetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just find it interesting that we would pick a certain sector, and then also that we would pick a certain sector and say if we don\u2019t do this\u2014some of the bits I picked up this evening\u2014it\u2019s all going to shut down. It\u2019s these small, rural clubs, which I have in my own electorate\u2014you know, I\u2019m part of that rural community. If they\u2019re going to close down because they can\u2019t drink alcohol there, then so be it. I mean, it\u2019s around the racing, right? It\u2019s around the experience. So it really does surprise me that people feel that if we can\u2019t have a drink\u2014I really question that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a174028f04f47d2813177476bdff72e\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: No one said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb31b4c62ba84d1a855fa7b015a0e134\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve heard comments along those lines. If this is the reason\u2014if you can go to the races and not have a drink and you can go to the races and there are no drinks provided, then that\u2019s OK, or you can go to those bigger events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut when I look and listen and, again, think, as Simon O\u2019Connor said in this conversation often, around harm minimisation\u2014but there are some real issues, and for me, when I\u2019m at home and I get an opportunity on a Wednesday night, which isn\u2019t often, because I\u2019m here regularly, I will go to the Salvation Army Bridge programme on a Wednesday night and be part of their recovery programme. I\u2019ve been an attender of that for many, many years, and to sit there and to listen to stories, that I can\u2019t disclose in this space, but to listen and hear the impacts and effects\u2014and I know that, you know, people say, \u201CWell, it\u2019s just one drink.\u201D or that everyone\u2019s responsible in these spaces. That can be true, but also that can be not true, as well. If you look at the fact that in New Zealand we are a heavy drinking society\u2014we are a heavy drinking society. So, for me, I will do all I can to ensure that we do ensure that our communities are kept safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the numbers, they say around\u2014and they can\u2019t identify it completely, but the average number they say is around 600 to 800 people a year die of alcohol-related impacts. So when we look at this and the exemption for race meetings, again, I come back to: what harm would be done if\u2014for example, the police have obviously been participating and have been turning up to race meetings, and they don\u2019t just turn up for the sake of it; they have a role to play and something to do. I look in terms of what is through the select committee process and I look at the Ministry of Justice as they considered the bill; I look also at the Ministry of Justice and the New Zealand Police and the Health Promotion Agency, who all advised that it\u2019s likely that there is potential harm that is caused in these spaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAlso, I come back to the fact that they talked about the context in the relation of a wider review. So, again, I find it interesting that we\u2019re talking on this bill right now and shortly we\u2019re talking on harm minimisation when it comes to the sale and supply of alcohol. I\u2019m really open and I really want to listen and understand, and I have, but I come back to the people that I know. Yes, maybe everyone in this House are responsible drinkers. Does that mean that we have to shut it down for those who aren\u2019t? Well, I don\u2019t know, but I know I want to make sure that I keep my community safe. I know that I want to make sure that we live in a country that is empowering and open but also is responsible and is to care for all people and to make sure that we do the right thing. So I won\u2019t be supporting the bill, but I have appreciated the debate this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee6da9db5c5643ef9fc11ac8b005da6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee6da9db5c5643ef9fc11ac8b005da6e\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Noting that this is a five-minute call, I\u2019ll take this in the hope that Mr McKelvie, as the person whose name this bill is in, may wish to speak a little bit longer than five minutes. So can I, firstly, acknowledge my parliamentary neighbour Mr McKelvie, in terms of him having the bill drawn and working through the select committee process, along with the members of the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI probably adopt a different view to that of Mr O\u2019Connor in terms of the report that has come back to the House, because I think what the select committee has done\u2014and I know the Governance and Administration Committee is a hard-working one\u2014is that they have made the bill, in their mind, a more workable one. And given that this is a matter of conscience, they\u2019ve landed at a point where they have sent it back to the House so that members can continue to exercise their own conscience without having a particular view expressed. So, having said that, that is a point of difference between myself and Mr O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI probably, in terms of my experience, have a bob each way on this. I spent four or five years as a deputy chair of my local district licensing committee, so I know the elements of risk, the various statutory reports that medical officers of health, that liquor licensing inspectors, and that the police do as part of that process. But I also spent more than 10 years working for the Judicial Control Authority for Racing, which meant that I basically have visited every single racecourse throughout New Zealand including, actually, Maureen Pugh\u2019s one on the West Coast in K\u016Bmara, alongside Gore, Winton, Waimate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d35030aead84a19a94c395126a5c65a\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Waimate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f44f2f3a9cd4e2ebfe330a44b467324\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Waimate\u2014well, I did see Ms Pugh at the K\u016Bmara races when I was there\u2014not as clerk of the scales, however, I think. But it means that I am familiar with a number of our rural and country racecourses. I think of places like Wairoa and Gisborne, Waipukurau, Gore, and others, and when I look at the submitters that have submitted in support, I note that it also includes my own local harness racing club, that of Manawat\u016B. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo this bill, as I understand it, makes clear that the clubs that would be eligible for this discretion to be exercised are not the intended target of section 235 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, and that while these changes may not be necessarily welcomed by metropolitan clubs such as the Race Group, which, as Mr McKelvie knows, represents a number of different clubs from Ashhurst Pohangina through to Fielding, Manawat\u016B, and Marton, and actually Wellington here at Trentham, the changes that the select committee have put forward do limit it quite significantly, in my mind, to the number that is at a singular level. And so I don\u2019t see this as a move around the degradation of rural New Zealand. I see it as an acknowledgment that rural communities can come together and that race meetings are community opportunities for those communities to come together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo like my colleague Helen White, this is my first contribution within a conscience debate. And having considered all of those factors, I intend to support this bill this evening, because I do know that rural communities who are involved in the running of race meetings up and down this country, in my mind, go a little bit the extra mile in terms of making sure that the arrangements are safe, making sure that things are all sorted, as opposed to metropolitan clubs who often they do a good job, but they don\u2019t rely on that element of goodwill of volunteers. A number of the individuals are often paid, so that is a point of difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo I congratulate Mr McKelvie and I\u2019m happy, having considered all those things, to lend my support to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00223af5fad1457f497d92c1d89e6ca4ce9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223af5fad1457f497d92c1d89e6ca4ce9e\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, I want to thank the House for their tolerance tonight. Interestingly, I had my whole team in Parliament today, and we\u2019d decided we\u2019d have our Christmas party tonight, so that\u2019s why I was absent at the beginning of it, and I felt that my team are more important than my bill. But, none the less, this piece of legislation is a very important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pleasure to take a call late in the debate on what I think is quite a good little bill. I want to thank Michael Woodhouse in particular for leading the debate, on my behalf, on this bill. He also sat on the Governance and Administration Committee, as did a number of other people in the House, Rachel Boyack in particular, who\u2019s the deputy chair of the select committee that heard this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe bill came about as a result of a discussion the Rt Hon Winston Peters was having with himself one day, as he often did, and Chris Bishop happened to overhear it. He then drew this bill up, actually, as a result of the comments that Mr Peters had made about the fact that he felt the racing industry was, to some extent, I guess, being victimised by the way the licences were interpreted, and particularly relating to what\u2019s turned out now to be the small racing clubs in New Zealand. When the bill was entered in the ballot, it didn\u2019t relate to the small racing clubs; it related to all racing clubs. I think the select committee have done a very good job of tidying that bit of it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI guess that my point with this bill was that, and I go back quite a long way, when I started off going to the races when I was extremely young, we used to go along in the back of the car and sit around the racecourse and have a nice time\u2014actually, picking up the wasted tickets a lot and seeing if we couldn\u2019t find a ticket that was still live, and sometimes we did, and cashing them in. But, besides that, it was a family outing, basically, and, I think, for a lot of people, it still is a family outing, but only once or twice a year. So that\u2019s what appealed to me about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAs we discussed in the select committee, quite a lot of issues arose with respect to\u2014we had submitters who talked a lot about the damage that alcohol does. I think we all accept that excesses of everything do damage. This bill\u2019s not actually about the consumption of alcohol; this bill is about getting people to race meetings, particularly in our small rural areas, enabling us to have a nice day out, and go home at night safe and having had a rewarding day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, in my view, there\u2019s a big difference between what the alcohol watch groups and those people concerned with alcohol consumption\u2014there\u2019s a lot of them, and I\u2019ve got no problem with them\u2014felt was a challenge and what the bill was designed to deal with, which was nothing to do with the consumption of large amounts of alcohol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, having got through that point, we had quite a number of submissions from small racing clubs who really felt the bill, in the form we introduced it, would add quite a lot of value to their opportunity to, I guess, make things easier for them, to enable them to do what they wanted to do with their race days without having to provide a massive facility to achieve it. The problem with the facility is that to achieve alcohol licences, there\u2019s quite a lot of facilities required. Many of these small racing clubs don\u2019t have those facilities and aren\u2019t able to provide them, so to be able to offer a BYO opportunity at the races is quite a significant advantage to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ve talked about the submissions from the smaller racing clubs who were extremely supportive of it. What I found very disappointing was there were two submissions, one from New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing and one from the Waikato Racing Club, opposing the bill. I must say, I wondered what they were thinking, because they both occupy very important spaces in the racing industry\u2014an industry that\u2019s struggling for owners, for jockeys, for participants, and for support. I think that, historically, that support has come from rural New Zealand. Rural and provincial New Zealand have provided a large number of race horse owners, a large number of jockeys, a large number of trainers, and a large number of people interested in the industry. Many of them have come out of small towns. I myself would probably have never got in the racing industry if I hadn\u2019t been involved at a very young age with a two licence-day racing club, where I later trained horses. And today, I still race a quite a number of horses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd I think I\u2019m an example of someone who may never have gotten involved in racing if it hadn\u2019t been for those small racing clubs\u2014those small, isolated, to some extent, racing clubs\u2014and Tangi Utikere talked about the race clubs, and the club I was part of was one of those: the Rangitikei Racing Club. It hosts two race meetings a year\u2014it wouldn\u2019t qualify for this because it\u2019s part of the race group. But there\u2019s a large number of small clubs, particularly in the South Island, that will qualify for this, and I think will be very interested in the potential to use this bill to enable them to run a race meeting in a much easier form than they otherwise could\u2019ve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just wanted to turn to the select committee report\u2014and I heard some discussion, I think, from Rachel Boyack particularly on this, earlier on. We had quite a debate on this issue in the select committee, because I think we all felt\u2014and an interesting point about this: all of the select committee, interestingly, voted for this bill to go to select committee, which is quite interesting. So we all voted for it to go to select committee, and we didn\u2019t feel it was our role to then recommend a course of action to the House. We felt, despite our own feelings, that our role was to put this bill in as good of a space as we could and send it back to the House for a debate to be taken by the Parliament as a whole. And that\u2019s where we got to as a select committee. As a consequence of that, we\u2019ve written to the Standing Orders Committee and suggested that they change the rules, with respect to these sorts of members\u2019 bills, and bills that relate to conscience. I think there\u2019s been about three or four of them, in my time in the House, that have come back, and they have, with one exception, had recommendations back to the House. The one exception was the euthanasia bill; it had some special conditions around it and so I\u2019d be interested to see where we get to with respect to the Standing Orders Committee and what they recommend back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo we made three very small changes to the bill: we updated references to the Racing Industry Act 2020, as when the bill was written, it referred to the Racing Act 2003. We amended Section 235A(1)(a) to insert the word \u201Csmall\u201D into the bill to ensure the bill would only apply to those clubs described as small in the Racing Industry Act 2020, so the effect of the definition comes from the Racing Act 2020, and I think it\u2019s most appropriate. We also recommended replacing \u201Cracing club\u201D with \u201Csmall racing club\u201D and proposed Section 235A(2)(b).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThis industry has struggled in New Zealand in recent years, and any little glimmer of hope that we can give it by making things easier for our small racing clubs to involve local people in an industry that, ah\u2014whatever we think of it, contributes significantly to the New Zealand economy and contributes significantly to rural and provincial New Zealand. Whatever glimmer of hope we can give them, in the course of that, I think is of huge value to the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think we\u2019ve got this bill in as good of a space as we can; I\u2019d urge members to support the bill at second reading, and hope that we can make some progress, and obviously if we get through second reading we can sort out any further issues that members have with respect to the bill in the committee stage. But I do want to thank the select committee for the work they\u2019ve put into it; I want to thank all the members of the House, really, for the consideration they\u2019ve given me tonight, and also, I guess, to a large extent at first reading, and we\u2019ll see where it gets to tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s probably all I need to say; I think everything\u2019s been said by the many members who have spoken on it, so thank you for the opportunity; and obviously I commend this bill to the House and hope that it gets some support. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002296d341530e8d4410912577ce8184804f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296d341530e8d4410912577ce8184804f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have determined that the subject of this vote will be treated as a conscience issue. In this case, I know that there are members who want a personal vote, and I am prepared to accept one. This is the process we are going to follow: I\u2019m going to put the question, I\u2019m going to announce the result. At that stage, any member can ask for a personal vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000762\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000763\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 61, Noes 49, Abstentions 1.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4a9ce2fd6644b0f888e23856aaf8e5b\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e4b1dc5cb674043b26fc36f883a60ae\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00224844b2f307014421aa605a06862b5a54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224844b2f307014421aa605a06862b5a54\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Health Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAnd a timely bill it is. We would not be here without advocates and organisers like H\u0101pai te Hauora\u2019s Selah Hart or Alcohol Healthwatch\u2019s indomitable Dr Nicki Jackson. We wouldn\u2019t be here without the community leaders and organisations who fought these battles street corner by street corner: our M\u0101ori Wardens and battlers like Communities Against Alcohol Harm. We wouldn\u2019t be here without the researchers like Dr Tim Chambers and Dr Louise Signal. We wouldn\u2019t be here without the leadership of councils up and down this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut here we are. What if I told you that we\u2019ve identified a drug that is the leading cause of preventable death and morbidity globally and here in Aotearoa? Leading economists estimate that this drug\u2019s harm costs our country up to $7.85 billion annually. It features significantly in emergency services callouts, often where violence and aggression are found. It\u2019s a leading cause of car crashes. It\u2019s a group 1 carcinogen, substantially increasing the risk of cancer. But we shouldn\u2019t prohibit this drug, because prohibition would not get rid of it. Prohibition has failed miserably at getting rid of any drug, tending only to make those drugs and their consumption far more harmful. Whether it is an unfettered legal free market or criminal prohibition, you\u2019ve got either corporations or criminal organisations doing their best to shift as much of their product as possible, largely comfortable exploiting vulnerable communities to make a fortune. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis drug, our nation\u2019s most harmful, is, of course, alcohol. Like cannabis, it will exist, regardless of whether it is legal or not. It always has. The question before us is whether we want to deal with the evidence sensibly to reduce that harm. Throughout the cannabis referendum debate, opponents told me that alcohol was a failure of drug regulation and that we couldn\u2019t risk dragging another drug out of the shadows and into regulation because alcohol was so poorly regulated. I found, though, that they never really actually wanted to talk about regulating alcohol better, prompting the question of whether those opponents to evidence-based drug regulation actually cared about drug-harm reduction in the first place or just whataboutism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThat whataboutism ends today. We have forced the uncomfortable debate. More than that, evidence is starting to win it. That uncomfortable debate is about how we treat and think about our country\u2019s favourite drug. Alcohol is consumed by around 80 percent of New Zealanders. And of the adults who drank last year, 25.4 percent of us did so hazardously. That is 825,000 New Zealanders drinking harmfully. This isn\u2019t just an issue of physical health but also one of profound mental health. Otago University researchers scoured coronial data from 2007 to 2020, finding that in Aotearoa New Zealand, 26 percent of deaths by suicide involved alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe drafted this bill to reduce that drug harm. The bill does that with mechanisms long researched and recommended to Governments of both stripes over the past 10 years. Firstly, the bill seeks to restore local democracy to the local alcohol policy process by removing the special appeals process. This process, unique to alcohol regulation alone, has been abused by corporations to steamroll over communities and enable the mushrooming of bottle shops\u2014particularly in our poorer and more structurally marginalised communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAround six weeks ago now, four months after this alcohol harm minimisation bill was drawn, the Government announced that it was introducing its own, adopting the first half of this bill. And the Greens are not precious about this stuff. If it takes the Government picking up this as their idea to get it through, we will back it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Minister Kiritapu Allan for her ongoing collaboration on this kaupapa. The Minister fully understands, and, I daresay, expects me to continue to hold her and the Government to account on the second critical part of this alcohol harm minimisation bill, which the Government has not yet adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EPart 2 of this bill seeks to tackle the strong tie between alcohol and sports in this country. It does so by implementing three of the many and numerous recommendations of the 2014 ministerial forum, commissioned by the former National Government and chaired by none other than Sir Graham Lowe. It was, however, subsequently ignored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhile the forum ultimately recommended ending all alcohol advertising and sponsorship in sports, I recognised when drafting this member\u2019s bill that the best that we could hope for was the thin end of the wedge. As we all know here, a member\u2019s bill can only hope to do so much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I chose to do what I thought would be the last controversial components of that report: namely, ending product-only advertising and sponsorship of alcohol in broadcast sports. Our kids are exposed to alcohol marketing 1.4 times per day via sports sponsorship. Obviously, that\u2019s not just when they are watching the games; it\u2019s the logos on their posters and clothing. Alcohol marketing can be found in classrooms and bedrooms and playgrounds across this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWatching broadcast sports, though, viewers are exposed to alcohol marketing between 1.6 and 3.8 times per minute. The alcohol industry gets all of this exposure, all of this saturation of our environment, all of this normalisation and glamorisation for, at 2014 estimates, just $20.1 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, I tried to get the most up-to-date figures from the alcohol industry, from the advertising industry, and even from the sports sector, but they tell me that they cannot\u2014and perhaps it\u2019s simply a matter of they will not\u2014provide that new estimate. Of those who were willing to engage in the conversation, however, they say it\u2019s now worth a lot less than that $20 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ERegardless, we\u2019ve known how to fill that funding gap since Sir Graham Lowe and his ministerial forum told us to do so in 2014. We did it back in 1990s with the Smokefree transition fund for our sporting clubs. Other researchers have pointed to the pre-existing levy on alcohol, which could be ratcheted up a whole 2c on a can of beer to end alcohol sponsorship and advertising in sports overnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, the National Party argue that their opposition to this bill is that we won\u2019t extend this to arts and cultural events, which, of course, we could if we wanted to\u2014the Hon Paul Goldsmith\u2014but they don\u2019t, so this is not a good-faith nor a logical argument. If the National Party do want logically consistent, evidence-based policy approaches to drugs, they, of course, are always welcome to nick Green Party policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EMy final remarks tonight are for the Government. I know that with the Minister\u2019s announcement to see the adoption of the first part of this bill, many Labour members, now, have decided to change their vote to oppose the progress of this law. I don\u2019t believe that those who have decided to shift their votes have done so in bad faith; in fact, I believe it is completely in good faith and believing the Government\u2019s publicly committed to a work programme to address marketing in the second tranche of reforms, and, indeed, we are working on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut what worries me in this potential, in this good faith, is that best intentions can result in some d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu. Back in my first months in this place, five years ago, I\u2019d inherited a medicinal cannabis bill from the Hon Julie Anne Genter, who couldn\u2019t progress the member\u2019s bill, of course, as a Minister. This bill sought to put in place a green card type of system which would standardise and professionalise the pre-existing green fairy network and end the persecution of the quarter of a million medicinal cannabis users in this country. But the Government decided to draft their own bill, far narrower, and as a result, we ended up with a situation where too many Labour members ended up voting against the Greens\u2019 medicinal cannabis bill, banking on the promises of that Government bill. Five years on, as warned then, 94 percent of medicinal cannabis users continue to be made criminals, forced to get their medicine from the black market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe cannot risk the same intractable mess by turning down the opportunity presented with this bill\u2014to vote for something that is immediately in front of us, not to wait in hope. We have wasted decades waiting in hope, kicking the can proverbially\u2014and literally\u2014down the road. We will hold the Government to account, as I actually hope my Labour colleagues will as well, and the opportunity our 1\u00BD-year campaign with this bill has presented. The Government can tackle alcohol marketing, like we did with tobacco 30 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d encourage the Government to just copy and paste section 35(1) of the cannabis legalisation and control bill, exchanging that drug\u2019s name for this one: alcohol. That would be a logically consistent approach to drug harm in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225fdf72ac8eac45908ad4df4f9e2cba2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fdf72ac8eac45908ad4df4f9e2cba2a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is suspended. I will resume the Chair at 9 a.m. tomorrow for the extended sitting. Sleep well, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20221207bb931b855d7940208baeb6d2f46249f1000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10.01 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022296f172a4f144cffaa1bb20cc1e20ee4\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc65274eef7c4ce9917d6745fdbf3b22\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 8 December 2022)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022632ff3ee154a4319baee09ddd805c675\u0022\u003EWater Services Entities Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ea23d204e2f42caa0d7de1d5b1ab26d\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002209534040fcab4445ab393377752d1a8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209534040fcab4445ab393377752d1a8d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ata m\u0101rie. The House is resumed for the extended sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb49d1bf9faa4a4b807c806d4a70de6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb49d1bf9faa4a4b807c806d4a70de6d\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Water Services Entities Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb6ffd3f0d144e1b34ded16aac5612d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223748d669bb194169bf84942d59179c23\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Water Services Entities Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EKa t\u016B he manawa \u0101-rangi, ka t\u016B he manawa \u0101-whenua, ka t\u016B he manawa a ng\u0101 wai katoa hei \u0101kina kumu m\u014D Hine-Tapu-i-te-Papa. Awhitia paitia ia, \u0101whitia purutia te mana, te mauri, te tapu, haumi e, hui e, taiki e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[A spring in the sky, a spring on earth, indeed there is spring of all water that acts as a seat for The Sacred-Maiden-of-the-Land. Care for her, and care for the mana, the mauri, the tapu, bind it tightly. All in agreeance.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI am pleased to reach this point in a significant set of decisions that will prepare New Zealand for a better future for looking after our most precious resource, ng\u0101 wai\u2014water\u2014people, communities and our environment. We cannot have a future in a country like ours where boil water notices in communities like Te Kao happen; where no swim notices at local beach spots, like Auckland, happen; where burst pipes, like what we\u2019ve seen in our capital city, happen; where seeping sewage into our pristine lakes, like Lake Taup\u014D, happens; and where waste-water spills are frequently experienced after heavy weather events across many communities\u2014it plagues our headlines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn a country like ours, this is just not good enough, so we\u2019re going to take action, do the right thing, and fix a problem that has been left to languish for the last two decades. New Zealand is facing a cost of living crisis. It is vital that we keep a lid on rates rises. The approach we\u2019re taking will make a more affordable solution for ratepayers going forward into the future to support the financing of water infrastructure and improve water services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI find it disingenuous of the Opposition to talk about a cost of living crisis and in the same breath promise to repeal this legislation. We know that if we do nothing, the significant cost of fixing this mess of water infrastructure will fall on future ratepayers\u2014our kids, your kids, and the next generation. We know that New Zealanders can\u2019t afford that. I want the burden to fall on our kids. Do you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis is the third time I\u2019ve stood to support this bill in this House, and yet I don\u2019t find myself short of statistics backing up the need to significantly change the way that water is managed in New Zealand. Just this morning, we heard of the water contamination issues in Waimate. Just last week in the Matamata-Piako district, we heard of a community on a boil water notice, and they are not isolated events. But, sadly, no one is outraged because it\u2019s a common experience and all communities want the problem to be fixed. In one six-week period, Taumata Arowai received 209 notifications from water suppliers that their water was not, or may not be, compliant with the drinking-water standards, including from 31 different councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ENow, I understand that there are those who want to believe nothing is wrong with our water network, but, sadly, all too often\u2014because we\u2019re talking for the most part about pipes under the ground\u2014this critical infrastructure is out of sight and out of mind. It is not until something goes wrong that people realise just how big the problem is. Pipes across the country are in such bad condition that in 2020 and 2021 over 107 million cubic metres of water was lost due to pipe leaks. That is more than a fifth of all water supplied in New Zealand and is equivalent to the volume of water supplied to Hamilton, Rotorua, Dunedin, and Christchurch combined. Climate change forces us to treat water as a precious resource. We cannot waste it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI have not spoken about how, following its 2016-17 local government audits, the Office of the Auditor-General reported that relevant and reliable information about water assets was a challenge for territorial authorities, and that 45 percent of potable and waste water networks and 52 percent of stormwater networks are categorised as ungraded. In a country like ours, how can that be? In other words, there is a lot we do not know about the quality of our water infrastructure in this country, but what we do know makes for some dire reading. Unlike the Opposition, we will not bury our heads in the sand or kick the can down the road. Their alternative is to repeal the most viable solution on the table, and, quite frankly, we don\u2019t need National and ACT to gaslight issues like co-governance\u2014which, in this instance, is really about joint decision-making\u2014or whitewashing issues such as ownership when they know very well that councils will continue to collectively own water assets under this model. The Opposition want to repeal the only solution on the table and take New Zealand back to the status quo, which is not a solution. In fact, repeal, repeal, repeal is not a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn the time since I introduced this bill into the House, the situation has changed. I want to take some time to address the concerns people have about this bill. People have said that having a few large entities inevitably mean less community voice and influence over water services, but we know that having any more entities will result in unequitable outcomes for ratepayers, and increased costs. Four entities will ensure that costs and levels of service are equitable across the country. I don\u2019t want to see residents in Northland, the West Coast, Otago, and Southland paying significantly more for their water services while receiving, actually, the worst service under the current model. But that is what the modelling shows will happen if we have more than four entities, which is what that side of the House wants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETo address concerns about the loss of community voice, we established a working group on representation, governance, and accountability. They did a significant amount of work to improve local voice, and this was strengthened through the select committee process, and I thank the members on the committee. I make this promise to New Zealanders: public ownership is and remains a bottom line for the Government, and you will still have the same influence over your water services once this bill passes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere was some concern the entities would be less accountable to the public than local government. My officials undertook significant work with the Office of the Auditor-General during the select committee process to improve the accountability mechanisms in the bill. The Auditor-General has confirmed that the current bill will provide for stronger and more effective public accountability over water services delivered to New Zealanders than when the bill was introduced. I want to thank the Office of the Auditor-General for their constructive contribution to this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAnother claim is that the reform will lead to higher costs for consumers. This is unsubstantiated and, quite frankly, untrue. We know that if we do not proceed with this reform, costs will go up to levels that are unsustainable for New Zealanders. We know this because extensive economic modelling has been undertaken and peer-reviewed by world-leading experts. Ours is a Government that will not watch rates spiral out of control when we know something can be done, and we\u2019re going to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere have been claims that the Government is stealing assets, but assets will continue to be owned by the communities who currently own them. We have ensured their continued public ownership by embedding significant protections against privatisation in this bill, unlike the Opposition or the ACT Party. We don\u2019t need to look very far into the past to understand why protections are so important. The previous National-ACT Government sold off and privatised many publicly owned assets. This Government is 100 percent committed to ensuring our water assets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a229f96b378e4d74b39ba59a11d03b17\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I don\u2019t want to hear applause. The volume of interjections is far too loud and I want\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d16601ed91443d8acbf6b0ca7b50060\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Clapping was a good joke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298142e6c3b354127807e2e32cf3ddbb1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m on my feet, so Matt Doocey will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220280dda129494e008ec8dc2ea108a239\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e425455e590430092d271d882fefc79\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: As I say, this Government is 100 percent committed to ensuring our water assets remain in public ownership, and we call on the Opposition to make the same commitment to New Zealanders. [Interruption] Oh, they will not. I would like to thank everyone that has engaged in the passage of this bill\u2014the submitters, councils, mana whenua across the country, the Finance and Expenditure Committee members, amongst others, and also officials from the Department of Internal Affairs, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office. Your contributions have resulted in significant improvements to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Opposition likes to stand in this House and ask Ministers whether we stand by our statements and actions. I do\u2014every one of them. I stand by the decision to undertake this reform. I stand by the financial modelling which has led us to this point. I stand by the entities this bill establishes. I stand by the fact that we are looking for solutions, not a repeal, cancel culture. I stand by all those things because I will not stand by and watch New Zealanders face thousands of dollars in rates hikes if we do nothing. I will not stand by while New Zealanders continue to get sick from drinking tap water\u2014tap water\u2014and our tamariki cannot safely swim at their local beach, rivers, or lakes. I will not stand by and see our cities and towns stall because they cannot pay for vital infrastructure that they require to grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that will not stand by and let this problem languish. It\u2019s been kicked down the road by the other side for far too long. We\u2019ve got to do something about it, and this bill will improve the future. I\u2019m pleased to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002260fd2451bf14424a88c0ac9abf9a62a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260fd2451bf14424a88c0ac9abf9a62a0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce5d7976b8d94d0586d8372873c784a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d7976b8d94d0586d8372873c784a5\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the National Party as the member of Parliament for North Shore and their local government spokesperson, at the third reading of the Water Services Entities Bill. National strongly opposes this bill. National will repeal and replace this bill if elected in 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill gives effect to the Government\u2019s three-waters reforms and establishes the four-entities model for water services management. This is part of a series of bills of which we will see economic regulation and asset transfer bills follow through and introduced in 2023. Be under no illusion: this is not the last time you will hear of three waters. Today, the Government, unless they make a mistake, will use its majority to pass this bill, one of the most controversial aspects of public policy in this term of Government\u2014controversial because over 88,000 people made a submission on this bill, the majority in opposition. This overwhelming opposition is further evidenced by multiple public polls. The latest published poll, just a few weeks ago, said 60 percent of Kiwis are opposed, while less than one in five\u2014just 19 percent\u2014supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt is important to acknowledge that most mayors and councils across this country support the need for reform, to improve water infrastructure, but strongly oppose this bill as a means to achieve those ends. National believes, alongside our local communities, that water services in New Zealand should be safe, resilient, reliable, and customer responsive at least cost. This will lead to, and we need to focus on, fixing problems where they exist. This is what a National-led Government will do and deliver for New Zealanders. The National Party has developed an alternative solution and will continue to develop this New Zealand water infrastructure solution. It will replace this bill. Our solution will achieve the desired outcomes for our communities without the loss of control and complexity that this Labour water services entities model brings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe Government has engaged in a deceptive media campaign that has blamed local councils for the issues with New Zealand\u2019s water quality, spending millions of dollars of taxpayer funds on spin and nothing on delivery. Water assets should remain in local community control and ownership, and governed by democratically accountable individuals. This is a bottom line for National. Under these reforms, communities will no longer own their assets. As detailed in clause 166, territorial authorities possess none of their usual rights and responsibilities associated with ownership of assets. This lack of ownership is particularly concerning for communities that have paid for their assets over generations and generations and prefer the ownership to be vested in democratically accountable authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWater assets should, also, not be subject to 50:50 co-governance. Removal of co-governance from public services is a bottom line for National. The bill contains co-governance at every level of representation\u2014both representative boards and regional authority groups\u2014which have equal sets of mana whenua and territorial authorities around the table. The National Party believes that co-governance of public services like water does not improve service delivery and cannot be justified otherwise. National recognises the role of mana whenua as a group alongside others with views on water, and with some interests in cultural assets previously expressed in the Treaty settlement process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESubmitters provided a number of viable alternative models. Communities 4 Local Democracy, a group that represents over 30 councils, presented an independently reviewed alternative model. The mayors of Auckland, Christchurch, and Waimakariri have presented an alternative model. Auckland has the Watercare council-controlled organisation (CCO) model, and some councils, including Hawke\u2019s Bay, have tabled alternative CCO models. These models show you can match the capital expenditure of Labour\u2019s reforms and keep assets in local ownership without raising water prices and council debt limits. Still, the Government has ignored, and continues to ignore, this and says that no alternative options or models exist. This is simply not accurate. The shape of the bill and the bottom lines of this Government, which restricted it to four co-governed mega entities, have meant that consideration of alternative models has not been possible during the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis bill now also includes five waters\u2014geothermal and coastal waters\u2014for the purpose of Te Mana o te Wai, giving iwi binding powers over these waters, through the water services entities; iwi alone. This was a late amendment and was not part of the select committee process, in which public submissions could have been received on that aspect. That is another example of this Government ramming through amendments at a late stage and not listening to New Zealanders. The National Party had tabled an amendment to have these provisions for Te Mana o te Wai extended to all New Zealanders, yet these were voted down by Labour in the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd, in the last week, Labour was caught red-handed trying to entrench part of the bill, which has forced them as a party into an embarrassing backtrack. This was supported by Labour and the Minister the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, despite Cabinet agreeing on 30 May that no part of the bill would be entrenched and knowing this amendment would be \u201Ca novel approach\u201D and not meeting\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cconstitutional thresholds\u201D. This action has given insight into the inner thinking of parts of the Labour caucus: a willingness to dangerously try to change our democracy for their own means. National has called for the Prime Minister to remove her local government Minister for this deliberate violation of the Cabinet Manual. \u201CWho is running the Labour Cabinet?\u201D, you may ask. The Prime Minister refused to go into how this has happened. That leaves her and the Government wide open to accusations that this was a deliberate move\u2014that they wanted to undertake this entrenchment, that they got found out, and that this mistake was not a policy mistake, it was a political one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe three waters reform assumes that the new mega entities will be able to achieve 62 percent operational efficiency, without any reduction in headcount, and a 50 percent capital spend efficiency compared to existing systems. This is not possible. Independent assessments have noted the economies of scale and capital spend are not available in New Zealand water services. There are issues with water infrastructure management that this bill has said it is going to try to attempt. Given the existence of Taumata Arowai as the water quality regulator, which has already been established, it is our belief that a number of issues around water quality will be resolved through this governance model\u2014in addition, with appropriately targeted funding and financing mechanisms. Three waters has attracted a storm of controversy because this bill, right from the start, was dead in the water. Before it even started, this Government set out, right from the outset, with bottom lines within this reform that they did not have a willingness to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI want to speak directly to all those people who work in local government across this country who are involved with the delivery of water infrastructure. The next 12 months will be unsettling and challenging but be forewarned: National will repeal this bill, undo the other statutory amendments, and dissolve any obligations created by this bill in regards to employment funding and financing. National will work with you, not against you, to implement a sustainable water model\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229ea4dcba84884115bed476e9da43f161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ea4dcba84884115bed476e9da43f161\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002272e70fc7edc047ba994142ebb7d80f27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e70fc7edc047ba994142ebb7d80f27\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I deliberately waited to the end of the speech out of courtesy to the member, but I just wanted to ask for clarification around Speakers\u2019 Ruling 128/5 and the definition of a passing reference to debate on Supplementary Order Papers which were resolved the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a863795b9ae14e829134809aa05a5d69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a863795b9ae14e829134809aa05a5d69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I contemplated interrupting the member\u2014actually, not particularly on that. Members can mention that in passing, but that was quite a detailed passing comment is what I\u2019d say. The issue that I was going to raise was the inferences made from it. In the end, I decided not to, but it\u2019s a general warning. I know this is a controversial issue, and I will listen very carefully. I\u2019m obviously going to give some latitude on the extensive debate so far, but that\u2019s not a licence for members to break the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280abfe010571415da0bab930b2e1a5b4\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not going away, Kieran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0b500098434c31b5f55289cc4b6386\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that? No. One could describe that immediately after a ruling as a comment on the ruling. You shouldn\u2019t do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00226b701336d6ba43e5a965dd25bb353eb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b701336d6ba43e5a965dd25bb353eb5\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Water Services Entities Bill. There are many times in this House where one prepares a speech, and this is one of the times where I didn\u2019t prepare a speech. It is easy for me to be able to sit at my desk, write a 10-minute speech, have a good read of it, and basically push out the slogans that we\u2019ve heard time and time and time again in this House in relation to this bill. But I\u2019m not going to be speaking about the slogans that are being sent from across the other side of the House. Instead, I\u2019m going to stand here and go back to why we need this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI was speaking to the chairman of our local iwi, who was basically talking about how the nannies used to be able to go down to our local harbour, used to be able to pick pipis, used to be able to fish, used to be able to swim in those waters. I talk a lot within my local community about, only 500 metres from my home, a local beach which has regular discharge of sewage\u2014regular discharge of sewage. That CEO and chairman of that iwi sent me a text and said to me to go hard in relation to this bill. He said, \u201CJust remember: it\u2019s not just about assets; it\u2019s about people.\u201D And that\u2019s exactly what this bill is about\u2014it\u2019s about providing our children and our children\u2019s children an ability to go down to their local harbour, to pick pipis from the harbour, to fish in it, and to be able to swim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe member from the opposite side of the House, Simon Watts, represents the North Shore, the area that I was brought up in. You can\u2019t even go down to the local beach to swim in those beaches. And what do you say is the solution to your local community in Takapuna? What is the solution? Went through one solution from the communities for local democracy, went through another solution from another local council, went through a solution from the Auckland City Council and a couple of other mayors. Talked about a solution on the other side of the House, but there was still no alternative from the other side of the House. There was nothing in that speech that actually committed to what they were going to do other than to repeal a bill, which leaves them with absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, I want to go to the people. The health of our people is so important. So, Mr Speaker, if you\u2019ll indulge me, I want to quote a really important article from the New Zealand Medical Journal that was released last week. It says, \u201CIn 2016, drinking water contaminated with animal faeces made much of an entire town sick \u2026 with 58 hospitalisations and four deaths, costing an estimated NZ$21 million.\u201D The outbreak was an outcome of systematic flaws in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s regulatory system for drinking water, which were highlighted in the ensuing Government inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, these medical professionals conclude this very detailed New Zealand Medical Journal article by saying that \u201CGood quality drinking water that is free of hazardous contaminants is a fundamental human right and a key element of the Sustainable Development Goals. \u2026 Water contamination in New Zealand has had severe consequences for human health and is an ongoing public health threat. \u2026 Consequences are borne disproportionately by smaller and the most deprived communities, with M\u0101ori disproportionately comprising the latter. The current regulatory arrangements for water services are inadequate, are economically unsustainable, and are inefficient. The amalgamation proposed in the Water Services Entities Bill provides an opportunity to resolve previous systemic flaws outlined in the Government Inquiry into Havelock North and to future proof the country\u2019s Three Waters. Most importantly, the proposed new legislation is likely to more robustly, and efficiently, improve the protection of public health and uphold the right to clean, safe water.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe other side of the House may not agree with those medical experts, but councils across the country absolutely agree there is a problem that needs to be solved. We have a solution on this side of the House that is in the bill, which provides for new entities that are still owned by the taxpayers of New Zealand\u2014still owned by the taxpayers of New Zealand, with some safeguards in there to ensure that if, for any reason, these entities decide to sell them overseas, there are strong safeguards in that bill. They\u2019re the same safeguards that apply today to local government assets. Anybody who picks up that bill and actually reads it\u2014takes the time to go through it clause by clause, as the Finance and Expenditure Committee members from the Labour Party and the Green Party did\u2014will understand why you have to support this bill. Because, again, the bottom line is the health of the people of our country. We cannot kick this problem down to future generations. We cannot let our children have to have higher rates as a result of doing nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EWe heard a number of submitters, and, yes, a number of them were not in agreement with the bill in the way that it was structured. However, the experts said that if we don\u2019t do anything about this, the increases in rates were disproportionate. It was already disproportionate in how much people were paying in rates for the water services that we were receiving. But what was going to happen was a $185 billion problem, and, if you kick that problem down the road, who is going to pay for it? Again, it is our future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EMembers across the House might want to be able to interject and provide different options to that\u2014take a speech, take your time, but, actually, maybe use your speeches for what the solution is that you\u2019d actually provide, other than repealing this bill. Provide the solution, but, in the meantime, this is a Government that is making hard decisions for the future of our children and our children\u2019s children. We want our children to be able to go down to the local harbour to pick pipis and fish. We want them to be able to walk along the beach and have a swim in the sea. We want them to be able to turn on the tap water and be able to drink from it. Too many boil notices, and too many sewage discharges\u2014unaffordable. That is basically what this bill is trying to address. I want to leave the House with one last quote from a submitter who came to Hawke\u2019s Bay, who actually experienced the Hawke\u2019s Bay contamination. She said, \u201CThe Three Waters\u2019 reform is looking to do the right thing for communities. It\u2019s looking at health and science, and putting it in the hands of experts. It\u2019s taking it out of the hands of the politicians. We have a problem, New Zealand, and this bill is going to solve it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00227887668f647c4f4c8916827ef3817d99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227887668f647c4f4c8916827ef3817d99\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. This Water Services Entities Bill has been a debacle for the Government from start to finish. I want to make very clear for the House that the National Party will campaign at the next election in a year or so\u2019s time on repealing and replacing this legislation, and if we win the election we will consider ourselves to have a mandate to repeal and replace, and we will do so forthwith. Because the Government\u2019s position is that it\u2019s their way or the highway; that there\u2019s a problem with water infrastructure in New Zealand and they\u2019ve got the solution. And right the way through they have been unwilling to listen to the voices of communities around the country, the voices of local councils, the voices of local authorities, the voices of local ratepayers who\u2019ve said, \u201CYep, we acknowledge there\u2019s a problem, we\u2019re up for a solution, we just don\u2019t like what you as a Government are proposing.\u201D There\u2019s no dispute that we need to upgrade water infrastructure in this country. There\u2019s no disagreement about that. What there is a disagreement about is this legislated all-in solution that confiscates local assets and puts them into four unaccountable mega-entities with 50:50 co-governance that gives extraordinary powers to mana whenua through Te Mana o te Wai statements to control those entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnd right from the start the Government has been unwilling to buckle on its bottom lines. They\u2019ve been unwilling to change their minds about the four mega-entities, they\u2019ve been unwilling to change their minds about the 50:50 co-governance proposals, and they\u2019ve been unwilling to change their mind about local accountably. Because this is the tragedy of the whole situation\u2014there\u2019s a third way through here. It does not need to be the Government\u2019s dumb solution. There is a pathway here. There are people of good faith in local communities around the country, people of good conscience and good faith who want to do the right thing for New Zealand. And, actually, I believe there\u2019s a consensus in the Parliament around that. But the Government has used its arrogant, absolute majority gifted to them in the 2020 election to ram this through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s run through the stuff-up. First of all, the media campaign right from the start\u2014what a shemozzle. The Government spent all its time telling local councils they were useless. That led to an upsurge of anger in local communities. Then we had the voluntary option: councils thought they were going to be able to come to some sort of consensus with the Government. In fact, some still hold that hope, and we had to go through the charade of the Government saying, \u201CYep, we\u2019re open to that\u201D, and as it turned out they had already agreed, as my colleague Simon Watts found out and demonstrated to the House\u2014in October 2021 the Government said, \u201CNo, no, it has to be mandatory. We have to legislate. We have to go all in\u201D. Councils felt betrayed. Communities felt betrayed, because they thought they were dealing with a Government that was open to change and open to some form of consensus. Turns out they weren\u2019t. Then we had the refusal to listen: 88,000 people submitted to the select committee process. Just 227 submissions were heard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be97d27563a2484f9e4fcad3d5eb1f39\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Selected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a28133786c34cb5af65e652c717b76d\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Selected to be heard. Now, I sat on the Justice Committee when we did the euthanasia legislation, the End of Life Choice Bill\u2014equally highly contentious. We went up and down the country. I went to Gisborne\u2014oh, not Gisborne, sorry, I went to Napier, I went to Blenheim, I went to Whanganui, I went all over the show, and we went around the country to try and listen to people, let them ventilate their concerns. And I actually think that helped navigate the Parliament through a very contentious process. But no, no, no, the Finance and Expenditure Committee did not do that. I think that was a mistake. And then we get to the entrenchment debacle of last week, of which no more need be said. But what a shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat are the five objectionable bits in this legislation? First of all is the confiscation of local assets, and the Government scoffs and says \u201COh no, no, no\u201D, but that is just the reality. There is no getting around that. It\u2019s in the legislation. The legislation takes assets that have been built up by ratepayers over many years, takes them off local council hands, and gives them to these new four water service entities, which are a new creation. The legislation creates these new bodies. These are bodies that have not been seen in legislation before. They are created by the bill. They\u2019re a completely new corporate entity\u2014and I use corporate in its most general sense\u2014created by the legislation. These are new entities and they will own the water assets; that is as simple as that. And the traditional rights of ownership\u2014as has been extensively ventilated in the public commentary and in this House\u2014do not go with local councils. It is a Claytons form of ownership: it is not ownership. So it is a confiscation, and that is how local councils and local communities see it, and they are right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point: the accountability of these new entities, these new water service entities, four of them\u2014just four\u2014around the country, they will be less accountable than what we have now. And again, it is very difficult to dispute this because the Auditor-General\u2014who doesn\u2019t have a dog in this fight; he\u2019s the independent officer of Parliament whose job it is to examine these things, turned up at the committee and gave a scathing submission to the Water Services Entities Bill about how they will be unaccountable. And the select committee has made no substantive changes to fix that lack of accountability, and, again, communities around the country know this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThirdly, 50:50 co-governance. The community has made it clear what they think about this and they have rejected it. But the Government refuses to buckle. Now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cccae6155acc4feea5752ded72d177a3\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori are part of the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de92fb2f7467413b99c305a73481fe31\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori, of course, are part of the community, and I\u2019m just about to say, the Hon Peeni Henare, do M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water? Absolutely they do. The Crown accepted that in the Supreme Court case that led to the mixed-ownership model. There was a judicial review, there was a court case to try and stymie that, and the Crown accepted and it\u2019s in accordance with longstanding policy that M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water. That was the position of the last National Government 10 years ago, and it remains the position of the National Party today. But does the acceptance that M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water\u2014legitimate rights and interests\u2014mean that we have to have a 50:50 co-governance proposal? It does not. Does it mean that only mana whenua can issue Te Mana o te Wai statements that the water services entities have to give effect to? In our considered view, that is not what that acceptance of M\u0101ori rights and interests requires. Our view is that it will lead to discord and disharmony and you are seeing that in communities around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the third objectionable proposal, and the fourth is the exclusivity of Te Mana o te Wai statements. Now, let\u2019s be really clear: the legislation obliges the new water services entities to give effect to these statements. These are broad and unbridled statements. The breadth of what these statements can contain is enormous. The entities will have to pay mana whenua to participate in this process to give effect to them. There is nothing in the bill around how these statements will be reconciled. If there are different iwi and different groupings that put these Te Mana o te Wai statements to the water services entities bill, there is nothing in the legislation\u2014we\u2019ve had no guidance from the Government so far\u2014about how they will be reconciled. We may well end up in a situation where there are differing statements that have completely irreconcilable objectives and there are, according to Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, 1,200 iwi around the country who could potentially issue these statements to these new water services entities. So the potential for chaos is very, very real. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EFifth point: the \u201Cfive waters\u201D, not the \u201Cthree\u201D. Because this is not actually the three waters bill any more; the water services is now five and the select committee extended the scope of the bill out to geothermal water and coastal water. And we are yet to hear an adequate explanation from the Government as to why that is the case and what exactly the rationale for that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI finish by dealing with this privatisation furphy that the Government insists on talking about. The only people talking about privatisation of water assets are the Labour Party and the Green Party. They\u2019re the only people talking about it. What the Government is doing is taking assets off councils and giving them to water services entities\u2014so in other words, outside of local council control, and then using the private debt markets through balance-sheet separation to fund them. So who\u2019s the people dealing with private money and private capital and private ownership here? It\u2019s certainly not the National Party. So we need to put this furphy of privatisation to bed. National opposes this legislation. We will repeal and replace it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220549feeebe3f4b828973a490b61def8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220549feeebe3f4b828973a490b61def8f\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I will never forget the day during the Havelock North water crisis where I met a family in Camberley where a young boy was suffering from severe eczema completely covering his body, simply from having a shower in his home where, unaware, he hadn\u2019t been told, nor his family been told, that the Hastings District Council was having to pump and pump and pump chlorine into the water to try and protect our community from a campylobacter outbreak so severe that between 6,000 and 8,000 people across the community got sick, nearly a thousand people went to the doctor about the suffering that they were having, 58 people were hospitalised, and it caused four deaths. Nor will I forget the hours that my young daughter screamed in agony from vomiting so severely that I rang for urgent medical treatment, only to be told that they thought it was a tummy bug\u2014little did I know that she was one of the first of, as I said, thousands to get sick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAs the MP for Tukituki, I know that the ratepayers and residents of Hastings have paid severely from a lack of investment in our water infrastructure where the council ignored warnings after warnings to invest in the infrastructure but instead chose to keep rates low. The economic cost to the community was $21 million from that Havelock North water crisis, and all they got from the National Government was $100,000 to help Havelock North re-market itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e495dc05a544a1b5bcb6dc4134289e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s their funding model, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281de9f9f97d44f0abeb4f0ecbcdace59\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: That was their funding model. No local in National; no care for the local community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EHastings and Havelock North have been the catalyst for this bill, but we are also an example of the future, because next year we will finally turn the tap on our new drinking-water system, that will supply over 65,000 people with a world-class drinking-water infrastructure. Now, I want to make clear to the ratepayers of Hastings that you have not already paid for fixing this but borrowed $82 million, and now another $8.7 million on top of the $15 million this Government gave towards fixing that water infrastructure. Under this bill, that loan will be transferred to the water entity and the debt wiped off the Hastings District Council balance sheet. The Government will also give Hastings another $35 million to spend as it pleases under the \u201Cno worse off\u201D funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EUnder the entity model, the cost of no reform to Hawke\u2019s Bay would be an average of $2,870 compared to the collective Entity C, which is projected to be $1,260. Now, that shows how much this is about keeping the lid on rates. Only this week, the Central Hawke\u2019s Bay District Council announced a 20 percent increase ahead of them on rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate for me to again acknowledge the work and experience of what has been learnt through the Havelock North water crisis. Hastings has also led the councils working together to put forward a regional solution, and I do want to say publicly that I commend Hawke\u2019s Bay for doing so, but as the local MP who also went out and heard submissions, other councils couldn\u2019t agree on what was the right number, how many entities. We just couldn\u2019t get the response from them. It showed there was such a mixed reaction to what councils wanted across the country. But one thing was for sure: reform was necessary, and we cannot wait. We cannot wait a day longer to get this work under way. Yes, Hawke\u2019s Bay is regionally parochial, but I also know that as a region we look outward and have significant leadership to contribute to how the entities move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to make really clear today that this is about the entities being doers, doing the work. This is about delivering for provincial and rural areas. And, again, this is where a region like mine can show and bring their experience forward like no other place in the country can. Water entities are plan takers; they are not plan makers. What we will see happen across this country is regional water operations employing staff to deliver the work to get the pipes in the ground, to get the water infrastructure delivered that we need, because I don\u2019t want to see another region, another community, have to go through ever again what Havelock North went through. We cannot afford to stop doing what needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t believe at all that the National Government would have any intention on repealing three waters. They have only been making it about politics. They have no local in them. They have never focused on regional New Zealand\u2014$100,000 is all they gave Havelock North. This Government has committed millions to Hastings to fix up the water\u2014millions of dollars to invest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI want to say again: we cannot have anyone go through what that young boy in Camberley did. We need to have assurances that when people turn their tap on, the drinking water is safe to drink. We need to know when people shower that they will not have their skin being burnt with chlorine simply because the councils ignored investment in infrastructure despite warnings. Despite the warnings that were given to councils, they did not invest, because there has been so much focus on not investing. We have to invest, we have to get on with this, we need to make sure that the drinking water in this country is safe. We should be able to swim in the waterways and be safe for ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI know beyond doubt that this bill is the start, and I want to see us get on with the business of delivering the water infrastructure across this country. It will grow jobs, it will see investment, there\u2019ll be work on the ground, it will keep us moving forward, knowing that every time we turn on that tap, the water will be safe to drink. I commend it, very proudly, with the work that everybody has done on this bill, and I acknowledge the incredible work of the Minister Nanaia Mahuta. She has done us proud, and I am so proud to be able to stand here with the fellow colleagues of mine and actually say we\u2019re getting on, we\u2019re going to do it\u2014let\u2019s get it done. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9b5fdebaa3d4db2b8b20cba8151709e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9b5fdebaa3d4db2b8b20cba8151709e\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you, Mr Speaker. When we come into this Chamber and when we pick up glasses like this, we take it for granted that the water in it is pure, it is healthy, and it doesn\u2019t make us sick, and I thank the previous speaker, Anna Lorck, for outlining, in Havelock North, where the Water Services Entities Bill all started, with that inquiry into the contamination and with the fact that 5,000 people got sick. That inquiry happened under the National Government. The Green Party did a submission. We had an expert give evidence in submission that people got sick party because of the land use around that bore, and the failure to cap the bore properly so that you got animal effluent getting into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EPeople take it for granted that human waste is flushed away to this magic place called away when they go to the toilet. People take it for granted, and yet if you\u2019ve been through the Canterbury earthquake series, where people had long drops in their gardens, or if you\u2019ve been on a marae that councils have neglected for too long, you don\u2019t take clean drinking water for granted, nor do you take it for granted in Canterbury, where we\u2019ve had huge agricultural intensification and contamination of drinking-water sources in areas like South Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe all need to care more for our water because it is essential for life, and we need to look after it when it is delivered to us. People who use wet wipes should put them in the bin and not flush them down the toilet. They can save their community and they can save councils thousands of dollars each year by doing the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about improving three-waters infrastructure: stormwater, waste water, and drinking water. But there seems to be a view that if you separate out balance sheets and that if you establish the entities, rates won\u2019t rise and there\u2019ll be an ability for the entities to borrow more and meet that huge infrastructure deficit of over $100 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut I think care is needed here. We have seen small councils refuse to invest. We\u2019ve seen a lot of deferred investment. We\u2019ve seen rates money going into civic buildings instead of into pipes under the ground. We\u2019ve seen councils like Kaipara get itself into financial strife because it has relied on expert consultants and they haven\u2019t provided affordable solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThese bigger entities will certainly have the technical capacity to manage water services, but there\u2019s no magic money tree to provide for that infrastructure deficit. The credit rating agencies will be looking very carefully at how much the Government will impliedly support the entities when they go out to borrow, and we\u2019ve seen overseas big private equity firms investing in companies in the UK which have been privatised creating debt mountains because of the large degree of profit that goes back to their shareholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere are protections in the bill against the entities privatising themselves\u2014and I\u2019ll come to that later\u2014but the Green Party won\u2019t be voting for this bill, because it doesn\u2019t contain the protections for ongoing public ownership and operation of the water services entities. It doesn\u2019t contain those protections because the amendment on Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 285 that we put forward was removed from the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBecause we know that the current Government is committed to public ownership of three-waters entities, there are protections in the bill to prevent the water entities themselves divesting infrastructure assets without a very robust process and the support of territorial authorities\u201475 percent support on the regional representative group\u2014but we don\u2019t trust further Governments. We think there can quite easily be a law change, because National is saying that it will repeal this bill. We think it would be quite easy for a future National-ACT Government not to repeal the bill but to simply change the law, potentially, to get rid of regional representative groups or to get rid of the protections in Schedule 4 which require that poll of electors and which require the 75 percent support on the regional representative group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe know that National wants long-term contracts. We know that members of the National Party like the Papakura situation, where Veolia has got a long-term contract to provide water services in Papakura. So it would be quite easy for a future National-ACT Government, because they\u2019ve made absolutely no commitment to retain water services entities in public ownership, to simply tweak this bill to keep with the corporate water services entities model and remove any of those protections that the water services entities currently have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo that is the major difference between the Green Party and the other parties in this House. We strongly believe in public ownership and operation of three waters assets because they are critical to the health of our communities, they\u2019re critical to human wellbeing, and they\u2019re critical to environmental outcomes. What National has done has spread misinformation about co-governance, misinformation about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224847c4a9867049809b34d91ef57dcde8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You can\u2019t accuse another party of that. You need to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ff92d24bae4e549067227f2e67a29c\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210c451b83fd4e9290074cee8e48d793\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf39e9d19ae24713ab9f483d0008e230\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhat National has done has highlighted that co-governance and has not properly characterised that. What co-governance will do is it will ensure that iwi and hap\u016B have a seat at the table and are contributing to decisions. What Te Mana o te Wai means is much more integrated water management. Those are aspects of the bill that we support, but it is our fear that a future Government, having had the entities established and with them having no protection in the legislation for ongoing public ownership and operation of these assets against a future Government changing the law\u2014that is the reason that the Green Party will be voting against the bill. But there are many elements where we recognise the major work that Minister Mahuta has done, such as her courage in tackling this issue and not just having an inquiry at Havelock North but actually seeking a solution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t see anything that the National Party has proposed as being part of the answer. It has been critique, critique, critique, criticise, criticise, criticise, attack, attack, attack, but there is no real plan. Instead, they have wound up concern around the country, and that is where we think that the Department of Internal Affairs has got quite a lot of work to do in developing much more participatory arrangements around how people can get involved in water services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had the author John Alexander suggesting that we have got quite significant polarisation on water issues, with that being a symptom of a deeper democracy and legitimacy problem, and suggesting much greater use of systems like Watercare is using in Auckland, where you pick people at random in a type of citizens\u2019 assembly and have them debate these challenges, because this infrastructure deficit isn\u2019t going to be met from a magical money tree. It needs communities to engage in how we ensure that everyone has clean drinking water and how we ensure that we\u2019re not discharging sewage of a poor standard into our rivers, estuaries, and oceans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EPeople all need to participate in finding the solution to this. Simply attacking the current entity issue is not the answer. We\u2019ve all got a responsibility because we all drink water and we all produce waste. It\u2019s the entities themselves that need to invest, and communities need to be engaged in determining how the funding will be spread over generations without burdening the entities with unbearable debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe want good services. The Green Party believes that public ownership and operation of three waters is absolutely critical, and that is why, without the protection that our SOP would have provided, we cannot support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u002276153ccd3122422e87568ff7a6f2cba0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276153ccd3122422e87568ff7a6f2cba0\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The ACT Party will not be supporting the Water Services Entities Bill. In fact, should ACT form part of a future Government, then we will work to repeal the bill and replace it with ACT\u2019s water infrastructure plan. That\u2019s a plan that I consulted on with 67 councils, before developing the plan, and drew on the knowledge and experience of organisations who deliver water services, who build water infrastructure, and who manage the environmental impacts of discharges to water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, it turns out that it\u2019s a very, very simple fix to fix the three waters problems, which are drinking water not fit for human consumption in some places, at some times, around New Zealand, particularly in smaller communities where their water supplies are vulnerable to flooding and vulnerable to damage; and waste-water treatment plants unable to keep up with the growth that New Zealand\u2019s experienced while our population\u2019s grown from 3 million or so since 1990 to over 5 million now. If you look at projections from Canterbury, from Auckland, and from the Wellington region, we\u2019re heading for a population of 6 to 7 million people by 2050, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why we need to build the infrastructure and upgrade the waste-water treatment plants to deal with that growth, as well as all the issues with the assets that haven\u2019t been adequately maintained in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut it is a simple fix, and I\u2019ll outline it for you. Firstly, you let these organisations that own the assets, which are local government democratically elected councils, continue to own the assets. But what you do is you provide a regulator over them that says, \u201CHow will you actually perform your obligations\u201D to deliver safe drinking water and to make sure that you\u2019re not discharging waste water and sewage into your local rivers and streams, to meet your environmental commitments\u2014that\u2019s called Taumata Arowai, the regulator that the Water Services Act set up, and it was created last year in 2021. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, I spoke to the Taumata Arowai staff at Fieldays. They say they\u2019re on track to meet their commitments. They\u2019ll be checking up on all the local councils and their drinking-water supplies, and then they\u2019re going to move on to checking up on all councils\u2019 commitments around discharges of waste water and stormwater to the receiving environment. There\u2014tick, job done, regulator in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, we need to think about how we actually get the investment in the networks, for maintenance and renewal of existing assets and for growth. What ACT would say is that there are billions of dollars in private and institutional capital looking for a home right now. It\u2019s not just this Government, which blew up the Reserve Bank and started printing money and handing it out hand over fist, there is so much private institutional capital\u2014in KiwiSaver funds, ACC, and superannuation funds\u2014floating around the world, right now, that is looking for a place to invest. It turns out that infrastructure, which includes big subdivision developments, waste water and stormwater networks, and drinking-water treatment plants, is the perfect place for long-term institutional investors to invest. They know that if they got a billion dollars and they put it into a waste-water treatment plant, then the city that operates that plant will be able to pay it back over 30 or 40 years. That means that the city, instead of having to come up with a billion dollars\u2019 worth of ratepayer funds to pay the contractor on the day that the waste-water treatment plant is opened, can pay it off over 25, 35, or 40 years. That\u2019s what they do in other countries I\u2019ve recently visited, like the United States and Canada, but it appears in New Zealand, this Government thinks that only ratepayers and taxpayers can pay for stuff. Well, that\u2019s what the Minister of Local Government said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ELook, the ACT Party thinks that there is a problem with three waters infrastructure. It can be solved with the water regulator which already exists\u2014that\u2019s Taumata Arowai\u2014and if we get the funding and financing model right and let local councils retain ownership but make sure they\u2019re subject to the kind of regulation that will force them to meet their environmental and human health obligations around drinking-water quality, then job done, three waters reform not needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThen I want to come to the problems with this bill and why it is not needed. Well, this bill appears to be an improvised Treaty settlement dressed up as an infrastructure reform. And I want to bring the attention of the House and of New Zealanders watching this at home and listening on 882 AM, that wonderful frequency that broadcasts Parliament out over the airwaves, to the reasons why the ACT Party believes this is an improvised Treaty settlement dressed up as an infrastructure reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI asked Minister Mahuta in a written question, \u201CMinister, what justification is there, or what special interest, what special right, do iwi and hap\u016B have in three waters assets built after 1840?\u201D And the Minister replied directly: \u201CNone above that of normal ratepayers.\u201D And yet this bill contains a number of provisions that allocate iwi and hap\u016B, those organisations, special rights, special privileges. Firstly, co-governance of the regional representation groups\u201450 percent of the seats on the regional representation groups which will direct the strategy for the four water services entities. And I asked the Minister, \u201CWhy is this necessary?\u201D Well, apparently these iwi and hap\u016B have special rights and interests because of the Treaty of Waitangi, and that, in order to give effect to the Treaty of Waitangi, they must be given these seats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWell, while the Waitangi Tribunal might say that, that\u2019s not necessarily the case. Parliament makes laws\u2014Parliament makes laws\u2014and Parliament can acknowledge decisions by courts, but it makes laws that actually treat New Zealanders fairly and give them equal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThen I want to come to Te Mana o Te Wai. Te Mana o Te Wai means, I understand, \u201CThe strength of the water.\u201D It\u2019s a concept rooted in what I understand to be the spiritual connection that many people of M\u0101ori descent feel between water and themselves. That\u2019s a wonderful concept. In New Zealand, we\u2019re free to practice our religious and spiritual beliefs in any way that we want. That\u2019s one of the wonderful things about living in a liberal democracy. And yet when we consider what Te Mana o Te Wai statements in the Water Services Entities Bill require, it gives iwi and hap\u016B in a region the exclusive right to submit a statement directing these new water corporations, set up at the direction of Minister Nanaia Mahuta. It gives these iwi and hap\u016B the exclusive right to say how the water will be allocated, who will get it, and what should happen to the water. That also now includes geothermal water resources, geothermal energy resources\u2014which power electricity power stations, for example\u2014and coastal waters. And yet no other group is afforded these rights in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party says, \u201CLook, there is a problem with the delivery and the operation of three waters infrastructure\u201D in terms of providing for growth and allowing for renewal and maintenance costs, but, actually, this bizarre attempt to improvise a Treaty settlement, dressed up as an infrastructure reform, is a completely flawed way to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat we saw a couple of weeks ago in the House with the addition of an entrenchment clause in the bill\u2014which would apparently protect the assets in the water services corporations, these new entities the Minister wants to establish, from ever being privatised. And that was introduced to the House by a Green Party member, supported by Minister Nanaia Mahuta, who claims it was a mistake and then also claims, at the same time, she actually did mean to support it. That was apparently intended to protect the assets from privatisation. But what we know is that taking assets off democratically elected councils, billions and billions of dollars\u2019 worth\u2014nearly $11 billion worth in the case of Auckland\u2019s water care\u2014and putting them in a corporation and then telling New Zealanders that future Governments won\u2019t be allowed to return those assets to democratic control isn\u2019t an attempt to stop privatisation. It\u2019s just an attempt to stop future Governments, democratically elected Governments, actually putting into place their own policies and agendas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why the entrenchment provision was repealed, and, again, that\u2019s why the three waters reform proposed by this Government and Minister Mahuta will fail\u2014because nobody wants it; nobody voted for it. The ACT Party will repeal it and replace it with a better policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00229389d89014bb4138aa83c5533062fac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229389d89014bb4138aa83c5533062fac2\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ko wai ko au; ko au ko wai. I am water; water is me. Now, water is both life giving, but it can also be life destroying. And we\u2019ve heard examples of that already this morning in this debate. In fact, right through the process of this legislation going through the House, we have heard many stories of the challenges that we have faced, not only for our people but also for our environment. Today, the purity of our water sources is becoming more and more threatened. There are the challenges of our infrastructure, but there are also the challenges of climate change, of sea-level rises. And these threats impact on us in a range of ways. This is both for us locally but it\u2019s also on a global scale. Water has become economically, environmentally, ecologically, culturally, spiritually, and politically one of the most significant issues of our time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, \u201Cclean green\u201D, that we love to talk about here in Aotearoa, has been something that we have been challenged by in recent years\u2014in making sure that the label that\u2019s on the box is what\u2019s inside and making sure that we are those people. Now, this bill is simple. This bill is about clean and affordable water for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ba6386763847f28da06f4f2ab54134\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d19dfe36bff412ca82273c1988ee12f\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Clean and affordable water for all New Zealanders. Now, which part of that don\u2019t you like? Is it the clean bit, or is it the affordable bit? Make up your mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, in 2020, I was privileged to be part of the New Zealand Leadership programme, which had people from all sectors\u2014[Interruption]\u2014yes, my colleague was on it as well\u2014from business to the community, from sports to the arts, and everything in between. Now, I remember, throughout that year in 2010, a key message came out for me as many of the international and local speakers shared their stories in their life of leadership, and this was that the wars of our future are going to be different to the wars from the past. Our wars of the future will be fought over energy, over food, and over water. So it shows the importance of us protecting this taonga\u2014this thing that is life, that is us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Hon Nanaia Mahuta for her courage, for her tenacity, for her resolute passion to ensure that our three waters here in New Zealand are fit for purpose, not only for this generation but the next generation and the generations to come. To the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, I want to thank you for putting yourself out there and for taking many of those jabs and attacks that have been on you for doing what is right for the future of our nation, which is about protecting our people and about protecting our environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, as she spoke just earlier in the House, there was a number that really stuck out to me, and that was 107 million cubic metres of water are lost each year through leakage throughout our nation\u2014107 million cubic metres. Now, this is a lot of water, and this shows that there are many challenges facing our councils and many challenges facing our infrastructure. And I want to say there have been a few things thrown around the House this morning. Someone from the other side of the House called out, \u201CStop insulting councils.\u201D For me, it\u2019s not about insulting councils or telling them they\u2019re bad or they\u2019re wrong; it\u2019s around how do we actually enable our future, because reforms occur throughout history and throughout time, and they\u2019re hard; they\u2019re not easy. Reform isn\u2019t easy, because often it feels like we might be losing something or it might be that it\u2019s something I\u2019ve always known and I have to change. But this isn\u2019t about telling councils they\u2019re bad or they\u2019re terrible; this is actually about how do we actually get it right for all New Zealanders. When the public wake up the next day once this bill becomes law, we will still be able to turn our taps on, and water will flow. When we wake up once this legislation is passed, we\u2019ll still be able to flush our toilets and trust where they go. When we wake up the day after this bill becomes legislation, our stormwater systems will still be operating. They will not be stolen or removed or taken away. These are the assets of our people and of our citizens. What I want to say is, when we wake up, the future is brighter because we can trust and work hard to know that when you turn on the tap, that water is safe to drink, and that you can trust where the toilet flush goes and where the stormwater flows and that it isn\u2019t ending up in our streams or our rivers or our ocean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIn New Plymouth and in Taranaki, we\u2019ve had many challenges with our water systems. An example of that was Port Taranaki recently. Because of high levels of E. Coli and bacteria, we were unable to have our secondary schools triathlon\u2014because it was just too high in Ng\u0101motu Beach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s about the people. It\u2019s around ensuring there are good assets to ensure that our people are cared for. Now, the other thing I just want to push back on this morning is the notion of co-governance and how that seems to trigger a lot of response and how co-governance seems to trigger a lot of push-back. I\u2019m not sure what you\u2019re afraid of. I\u2019m not sure what you\u2019re concerned of when it comes to that. And it does grieve me when I hear the word \u201Cconfiscation\u201D used in this House when we talk about our water services. I come from Taranaki, and I can tell you about confiscation. My colleague across the floor there, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, can tell you about what confiscation really is. Confiscation is not about being able to turn the tap on the next morning and knowing the pipes are still there and you still have 100 percent access to those pipes. In our region in Taranaki, we had thousands and thousands and thousands of hectares confiscated. Our iwi and our hap\u016B were landless. They became landless in their own land because of confiscation, so please don\u2019t throw \u201Cconfiscation\u201D around in this House when we\u2019re talking about pipes and when we\u2019re talking about infrastructure that will remain for the future and for the good of our generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIn closing, I again want to thank the Hon Nanaia Mahuta and I want to thank the officials, who have worked hard, who have been challenged, and who were able to work to get this to a place where I can confidently support this bill to the House this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut I want to finish as I began, and that\u2019s a quote from Jacques Cousteau, and he said, \u201CWe forget that the water cycle and the life cycle are one.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215b4d043e6a1461790ae48997039d274\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re adrift.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9200f9f5d824e21807024b3ca386f95\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Please listen up: \u201CWe forget that the water cycle and the life cycle are one.\u201D We need to protect our water. We need to protect our future. We need to protect our planet. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002229e17e64b7a14b19a6da3b4a616d5db9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229e17e64b7a14b19a6da3b4a616d5db9\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the National Party to oppose this bill today. I also rise on behalf of the people of Waimakariri, who I serve: the 95 percent of Waimakariri residents who chose to opt out of this bill. That was at the time that the Government promised them that they could opt out. Yet what we found with the release of ministerial documents, that decision to legislate all in had already been made when the Waimakariri District Council was consulting their residents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThey believe that this bill comes into the House today in good faith; it comes in in bad blood. This Government has misled New Zealanders; it has no mandate. That\u2019s why when we are in Government in 12 months\u2019 time, we will repeal and replace this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen you listen to the Labour speakers this morning, the absolute arrogance. We\u2019ve heard comments, \u201CIf the public just bothered to read the bill\u201D\u2014well they have read the bill. That\u2019s why they oppose this bill that you have rammed through under urgency and extended sitting before Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe public will not forget what you have done to them. They will remember that you do not have a mandate. My observation of the firestorm with the entrenchment Supplementary Order Paper is that, maybe in the first term, at the height of \u201CJacindamania\u201D, the media and the public would have not delved into that issue that they have in the last week. Maybe under the guise of COVID, the public and the media would have not had the time. It is interesting now, though, that the voracity that the media and the public took to the arrogance of entrenchment says a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIn my view, it said the public have lost confidence in this Government. They have lost trust in this Government. This Government has no credibility. Look at the talking points that they\u2019re using today. Look at that last speaker\u2014\u201Cthis bill is about clean water.\u201D No, it\u2019s not. This bill is about the establishment of four mega-entities that will take control of ratepayer-owned assets. This is State theft-by-stealth. Ratepayers will not have control of their water assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThey know, when they first pitched this idea\u2014remember the ads\u2014it was about green sludge coming out of pipes. They don\u2019t mention that any more because they know it was misleading\u2014like everything they\u2019ve said over the last 18 months\u2014misinformation. That\u2019s what this Government is now known as: the Government of spin, the Government of misinformation. And because the polls are now tanking and they\u2019ve finally owned up to the cost of living crisis, now they\u2019re like, \u201COh, this is a cost of living crisis solution.\u201D Could you believe it? What a backflip that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s no surprise that I\u2019m the first Canterbury MP to get up today, because you won\u2019t hear a Labour Canterbury MP get up and speak on this bill. They have been silent in Canterbury the whole year. Cantabrians do not want this bill. It\u2019s gone down like a cup of cold sick. They know they will be judged in 12 months\u2019 time on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI must say, a picture paints a thousand words, and to watch the Labour Government backbenchers pile in this morning, it was clear they had been whipped to sit in this House for the first reading by the Minister. To look at them and the look on their face as they swallowed that dead rat\u2014they did not want to be here. Not only were they swallowing on that dead rat but they were choking on that dead rat as they were whipped into being in here. Welcome to being a backbencher in an unpopular Government, where those Government backbenchers are marching to defeat in 12 months\u2019 time, for ever known as the Government of three waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022eda76e921e324dc993cf23e6769bc6ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eda76e921e324dc993cf23e6769bc6ee\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I rise to speak on the third reading of the Water Services Entities Bill. Te Paati M\u0101ori will not be supporting this bill at third reading. We are opposing this legislation because despite claims from both sides of the House, it does not implement co-governance, it doesn\u2019t implement self-governance, and our belief is our tino rangatiratanga as tangata whenua is being ignored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI guess the debate in this place, for us, has missed the central point entirely. Public water infrastructure absolutely should not be sold off, but it also doesn\u2019t need to be entrenched. It needs to be returned to its rightful kaitiaki\u2014its owners; tangata whenua\u2014who, as many hap\u016B and iwi remind today, would have ensured that we could still drink, collect kai, and swim in the wai. What\u2019s missing in successive Governments is the leadership and the will to implement the inherent customary, proprietary, and decision-making rights of tangata whenua over fresh water\u2014the customary kaitiaki who, today, are protesting to protect and are standing by their lakes and their rivers to clean up their wai, awa, lakes, and moana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe conservative race-baiting campaign run by right-wing extremists and misinformation has been successful so far in whipping up opposition to any increase of M\u0101ori decision-making on water rights, and people don\u2019t even understand what these reforms are proposing. They do not even guarantee M\u0101ori representation, let alone iwi representation, on the actual governance entities. While iwi and councils will both appoint a body that then appoints the entities, these degrees of separation are designed to limit M\u0101ori power through not creating precedents or co-governance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo there is no doubt, I will say, that there will be improvements to the ability of mana whenua, particularly larger iwi, but our concerns are that this will have a cost, particularly for those smaller iwi and hap\u016B. There is the reality that until the Crown implements our customary and decision-making rights on fresh water, reform of this scale is dangerous. The ongoing Crown position that everyone owns the water or no one owns the water\u2014which is it? We can\u2019t keep up\u2014is, effectively, designed to do what we saw happen in 1983, which is extinguish the rights of tangata whenua, as they did with our rights to foreshore and seabed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo three waters is one thing, and there are elements of this bill that we can support, but what actually needs to happen is to go the full scale, not half-pie, ka pai, and that is to bring about protection and restoration of our water through the absolute recognition and legal implementation of M\u0101ori ownership rights. Te Paati M\u0101ori would overturn the Crown\u2019s position that everyone owns water and, instead, adopt a position that acknowledges M\u0101ori rights to fresh water and kaitiakitanga. We acknowledge the intrinsic w\u2019akapapa of fresh water and support hap\u016B and iwi to negotiate for those w\u2019akapapa rights to be acknowledged in law, as Te Tiriti proposed. The w\u2019akapapa connection between tangata whenua and wai m\u0101ori is intrinsic, and I guess what we have seen is 150-plus years of Government\u2014local government, regional government\u2014and they\u2019ve all failed in Te Mana o Te Wai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo we want to see negotiations between Government and hap\u016B and iwi which need to be re-established to develop a policy framework on how M\u0101ori rights and interests are implemented in freshwater management and allocation. The Waitangi Tribunal said that the Crown should be doing this and it should be working directly with hap\u016B and iwi to create a standard process for addressing these rights and interests. Instead, we have the Crown currently deciding to stop negotiation with iwi leaders and shamefully, instead, has established its own M\u0101ori advisory group, te K\u0101hui Wai M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EAnd close to our hearts in Te Tai Hau\u0101uru right now, within W\u2019anganui, we need to put a moratorium on new consents for water bottling plants. We see the same in Lake Horowhenua. Until we can guarantee the safety of our aquifers and the life-sustaining mauri of our wai m\u0101ori, not one more drop. I guess we are concerned that the Crown has been in charge of our wai, environmentally, socially, politically, and has continued to fail future generations. We will prioritise these protections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we see now is reform that is weak. Our wai is in crisis, and we need transformation, not tinkering. We will accept nothing less than our rights, our interests being honoured and implemented. Ko te mana o te moana, ko te mana o te wai i ahu mai i te mana o Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, n\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E[The spiritual state of the sea and of water stems from the spiritual state of the Earth Mother and so, greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b12a050cd5e84d0b89650bce69a98b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b12a050cd5e84d0b89650bce69a98b79\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity to talk about stormwater, waste water, and drinking water. Those are the three waters. We\u2019re not talking about coastal water or thermal water\u2014different types: fresh vs coastal. We\u2019re not talking about different states of water. We\u2019re not talking about water ownership. What this bill is is all the water in pipes and treatment stations, and what happens to that water once we\u2019ve used it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThose pipes and those treatment stations are owned and operated and organised by 67 different territorial councils around the country. We\u2019ve heard from around the House today that there is a problem with the lack of investment in that infrastructure. When you do not invest in infrastructure that deals with waste water, we have problems. We had some vivid images of it in the first reading, and I won\u2019t go into them, but we have problems. How do councils fund that infrastructure? Most of it is through rates. It turns out that most ratepayers don\u2019t find that voting for an increase in rates, on that infrastructure\u2014those pipes; those treatment stations\u2014is something that they\u2019re particularly interested in doing. And, of course, there are 67 of those councils\u2014so, many of those councils are small entities. Obviously, Auckland Council is a giant one, but there are little places, little places like Waimate, that are not well resourced to make big infrastructure investments. So that is one of the reasons why we have this bill and a suite of bills. It is because Minister Nanaia Mahuta, in the Helen Clark Government, realised, as a Minister, that we have a problem in New Zealand with that investment in those very boring pipes and treatment stations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also have a secondary problem that the ACT member spoke about, and that is the regulation of that water. Nanaia Mahuta, as a Minister, in this Jacinda Ardern - led Government, has already put through the legislation establishing that water regulator so that councils\u2014and it will be entities\u2014are checked. Is this water safe; is it not? That regulation was largely missing in the past, so we\u2019ve fixed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does\u2014and it\u2019s important to note, here, as well, that this is part of a package, so that there are other bills coming\u2014is it establishes these four entities that we\u2019ve heard about. What it doesn\u2019t do is change the Resource Management Act. Water allocation is an issue under the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s interesting, at the moment, submissions are open on the Natural and Built Environment Bill, which does deal with water allocation and, you know, water generally, because when you need to take water or to discharge something to water, you need a resource management consent. That\u2019s not what this bill is about; this bill is about when you\u2019ve got the water or when you\u2019re discharging your waste water or stormwater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EHowever, we do know that, of course, there is a relationship between the decision makers who are deciding what sort of treatment station they want with that Resource Management Act function of the safety of our environment. So that is why there\u2019s this concept of Te Mana o te Wai in this Water Services Entities Bill, because there is a relationship there, and it may be that a Te Mana o te Wai statement will say something like: \u201CWe, mana whenua, have a preference for waste water being discharged to land; we don\u2019t want it to go to the ocean.\u201D That is the sort of thing that is relevant, then, for the owners, for the entity, to decide, \u201CWell, how do we invest in our waste-water treatment? What are our decisions going to be?\u201D That is how they interlink, and it\u2019s really important that we think about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat else the bill does, of course, is we know that it sets up the regional representative groups, and that is where the mana whenua representation is at. It\u2019s equal with the territorial authorities. That\u2019s at clause 27(3) of the bill. That body, that regional representative group, appoints the board. The \u201CMembership of the board\u201D is at clause 57. The Finance and Expenditure Committee thought really carefully about the skill set that that board needs to have. There\u2019s a lot of things listed in clause 57. The board has a constitution. At clause 91, you can look at what that constitution needs to contain. Then, the board, at clause 141, responds to the Te Mana o te Wai statement, or statements, that have come from the mana whenua in the entity\u2019s rohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat I want to say is that I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is clear and tackling difficult, complicated problems that are not a quick fix; that are going: \u201CWell, how do we invest sensibly into the future of this country? How do we do it in a way that we don\u2019t just privatise all of the assets?\u201D We just heard from the member Simon Court about exactly what ACT would do in that role, and that\u2019s not something that I want to be part of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo I want to say thank you to our brave and courageous Minister Nanaia Mahuta. I want to say thank you to all of the local government representatives who were on the various working groups as this legislation has progressed, as the policy has progressed, and as the policy and the legislation progresses on the bills that are to come. I want to thank the Attorney-General\u2014not the Attorney-General, the Auditor-General; wrong AG!\u2014for considering the changes that the select committee made to really amplify the accountability mechanisms. I want to thank the submitters around the country, especially those councils that came and gave their submissions and spoke about their important relationships\u2014highly valued relationships\u2014with mana whenua. Lastly, I want to thank the Standing Orders Committee, which has now opened submissions for the process of entrenchment. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022197ee5d00cc34a20ade1e42b2edd8f39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022197ee5d00cc34a20ade1e42b2edd8f39\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, well, well, we now know the parties of the left have abandoned the ship of State and, at the 11th hour on the Water Services Entities Bill, not a single party other than Labour is going to be supporting this: not National; not ACT\u2014we knew that; not the M\u0101ori Party, after the second reading; and now not the Greens. The only party that thinks this is a good idea, in this House, is Labour. But don\u2019t they look glum about it? I know those backbenchers don\u2019t think this is a good idea, because they\u2019re having a look at the polls and thinking, \u201CThis is going to be curtains for me.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about one of them for whom it may be curtains. Anna Lorck said, in her contribution, that Havelock North is the reason for this bill. Well, I don\u2019t agree. Let me tell you what the reason for this bill is: blind political ideology\u2014no more, no less. The reason for Te Mana o Te Wai was Havelock\u2014that\u2019s true\u2014and nobody wants to see a repeat of that, but this Government has spent two years catastrophising the situation with our water, demonising councils, and candy-coating the benefits of the water services entities. But I said it at the start of this process, and I\u2019ll continue to say it: this is nothing more than State-sponsored theft of community assets. And I found Glen Bennett\u2019s contribution quite ironic\u2014that he was talking about theft, and iwi knowing about that. Well, this is the water equivalent of a really bad Treaty settlement: taking hundreds of billions of dollars of assets away from councils and throwing crumbs at them\u2014you know, a little bit of compensation here, a bit of debt forgiveness there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221727306902134f4aa1e62267d00251b2\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still there to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282cc0e9e93684923ad8accd5c490bb46\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258eb5069388241c7ab238213228d1682\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still there, and it\u2019ll still be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223427e06293464eaa91c9259bd28d7a3a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s still there! So was the land that was confiscated from iwi. It\u2019s a very good analogy, and it\u2019s fundamentally wrong. The member knows it\u2019s wrong and he\u2019s trying to put a polish on it. Well, he can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe catastrophising of the situation has been, I think, underpinning every single speech from a Labour member since this started. The Minister continued it, Anna Lorck continued it, all members have continued it, and nobody\u2019s arguing that\u2014we need to have clean water. We need to have good foul water and stormwater management, but Barbara Edmonds, talking about Auckland, fails to recognise that the problem is already being fixed with the central interceptor that\u2019s being run by Watercare. Anna Lorck did admit that Havelock North have just spent millions of dollars fixing their water. They didn\u2019t need the Government to come along and tell them what to do. They knew what the problem was, they knew what the solution was, and this is State-sponsored theft\u2014nothing less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I want to go into the issue of co-governance. I think it\u2019s really important. In my city of Dunedin, we will be part of Entity D. There are 1.1 million people who live in the South Island and most of them\u2014but not all of them\u2014are going to be in Entity D. If they came along and said, \u201CWell, OK, we\u2019re going to have this board of representatives for the territorial authorities\u201D, Invercargill is going to have six members on that board and the rest of the South Island is going to have six. Those other 23 territorial authorities would be up in arms. Now, one thing that Entity D does have is one really good iwi, not several iwi. Ng\u0101i Tahu, with the same population as Invercargill, is going to have six members on the board, and the rest of the 24 territorial authorities are going to have another six. How is that representation for the 1.1 million people, nearly, that will be part of Entity D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f63fb77ac9ce4b928944ab3827c605e8\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6cea580fbf4d428bbc81df755da070\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It isn\u2019t\u2014that\u2019s right, Mr Smith. And not only that, but those representatives\u2014it would be great if they had consensus\u2014need a 75 percent majority in order to get anything done. Where have we heard about 75 percent? Sounds a lot like entrenchment, doesn\u2019t it? Well, it\u2019s going to be there in another way, and so we haven\u2019t heard the last of questions about entrenchment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow I want to go to the financial case for change. Simon Watts is a very good chartered accountant, as is my humble self. What we know is that when financial forecasts are done 30 years out, they\u2019re not worth the paper they\u2019re written on. The benefits-realisation estimates that actually came out of Scotland\u2014a flawed methodology in my view, because, while Scotland has 5 million people, half of them live along the Forth and Clyde rivers, in a very concentrated situation. They are not distributed across\u2014and Scotland itself is no bigger than Otago and Southland. We have five million people distributed right across the length and breadth of a long, skinny country, and the synergies that Scotland was able to achieve simply can\u2019t be done here. Pipes are pipes. A pipe in Westport is going to be needed just as much as a pipe in Balclutha, and the idea that, according to the modelling, there would be capital reductions of 50 percent in cost is just pie in the sky. The operational reductions of 65 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc585d0772e401dabc1fc361fc64f65\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea7c184ccc4400a965277f816870aeb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re quite right, Joseph Mooney. Absolutely impossible\u2014particularly when there is going to be no reduction in headcount, apparently. And, of course, staffing is a very big part of managing water, and certainly engineers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think back to the Auckland super-city. Now, that was my Government that did that, but the benefits realisation for the taxpayer was going to be significant by merging the seven councils up there\u2014or six councils; whatever it was. I wonder whether the Auckland ratepayer, 10 years later, thinks, since they\u2019re listening to this debate, \u201CThank goodness my rates are lower because of the Auckland super-city merger.\u201D\u2014said no one ever. So I say that about this. I will be in my rocking chair\u2014in fact, I\u2019m determined to live long enough to be there in 30 years\u2019 time and be proven right. The benefits realisation is pie in the sky, and it\u2019s not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI talked about co-governance and the potential for division, but that\u2019s actually not my greatest concern. My greatest concern is the division that will occur between our communities. I think about Entity D. Dunedin, for the first time in about 30 years, is actually growing in population, and it needs the infrastructure base to support it. It has the prerogative now, and the autonomy, to go and rate the community and consult on its long-term plan and build the water services infrastructure it needs, as they\u2019ve done for the last 20 years, in upgrading it, and a pretty good job it\u2019s done so far. Now they\u2019re going to have to go to Christchurch, or wherever the head office of Entity D is going to be, and say, \u201CWe need infrastructure.\u201D Christchurch could easily turn around and say, \u201COh I don\u2019t know about that. Selwyn is growing a bit faster than you. And Invercargill\u2019s pipes are a bit rustier than yours. So you\u2019re going to have to wait.\u201D All of that autonomy has gone. And I\u2019m sorry, six members of a representative board fighting for 24 territorial authorities is not going to give the representation and the lobbying that cities like Dunedin and towns like Balclutha will need in order to get what they have done. So it\u2019s going to pit communities against each other. I absolutely believe that. That is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOf course, we\u2019ve already talked about the taxation without representation. There is more legislation to come to work out how on earth the revenue is going to be collected from the water services users. So that will be the first litmus test. I go back to the question of the financial modelling. I think it\u2019s ironic that Grant Robertson can\u2019t even stick to a Budget Policy Statement four months before he issues the Budget. How on earth are we going to have confidence in financial modelling that goes out 30 years? I think it\u2019s going to be completely, completely undermined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to finish with the biggest false flag of this week: that is the question of privatisation. It\u2019s a false flag, because it\u2019s been raised as a risk that National would privatise, and there were attempts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a5c706dc12415eb3bf2c8d39237c2b\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Did you listen to ACT\u2019s speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c7a9c8f7226404db4efccf421c5c784\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Listen up. It\u2019s a false flag, because National wouldn\u2019t have stolen the assets in the first place. The biggest thing that the ratepayer and the taxpayer have to fear is this Government\u2019s theft of these assets. There will never be the privatisation by a central government under a National-led Government, because the assets wouldn\u2019t be in central government control. They are going back to the local authorities from whence they were stolen, so that there is taxation and representation aligned, and they can manage their own needs, the way they have for 150 years. One thing a National Government will not do is catastrophise the situation, the way those ads and every single speech from Labour Party members have done. I did refer to taxation without representation\u2014that is, if they don\u2019t like the quality of their local assets, they can vote out the council. Well, they won\u2019t be able to do that when this bill is passed, but they do have another vote. They can vote against the people who stole these assets and centralised in a Wellington-knows-best way, and I think that vote is less than a year away. No wonder Labour are worried.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022473e29b6f9434a9d80d2f1589538bc6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022473e29b6f9434a9d80d2f1589538bc6b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Associate Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This country faces a $180 billion problem. That is how much this country needs to find over the next 30 years to fund water infrastructure in this country. If it doesn\u2019t, then people will get sick. If it doesn\u2019t, then development will not happen. We heard numerous times that the National Party MPs dispute that figure but provide nothing to the counter. They can point to their own individual qualifications, as Michael Woodhouse just did\u2014but he didn\u2019t provide any counter argument other than he disagrees with the figures that have been provided by the Water Industry Commission for Scotland and peer-reviewed by Beca, and peer-reviewed by Farrierswier. But doesn\u2019t that sum up the National Party\u2019s position on this very issue? They have walked a very interesting line throughout this debate, and I\u2019m very interested indeed to see that yet again the National Party have changed their position on the issue of water services reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt seems now, today, that the National Party have always agreed that something needs to be done. I had a little read through the first reading speeches. Simon Watts started his speech and finished his speech with a very clear message: they will repeal three waters\u2014full stop. There was nothing about replacing it. It was, \u201CWe will repeal.\u201D If anybody here wants to go over to Wairarapa, as soon as they drive through Featherston they will see a massive billboard that says the National Party will repeal and reverse three waters. So that\u2019s the second position. The second position was not just repeal; it was repeal and reverse, and now they\u2019re trying to say they will repeal and replace what is in this bill. So there are three positions, and I think what that says to the people of New Zealand and to Parliament is that they are trying to position themselves as the ones that have the solutions, without offering anything at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis bill deals with a very serious problem\u2014an issue of the tune of $180 billion that at the moment every single community in New Zealand is facing. And when every single community in New Zealand is facing that, it means ratepayers are facing that. Councils themselves say they cannot afford to do it by themselves. They either have to increase rates to an extent where the community can\u2019t afford it or they don\u2019t do the work they know they need to do. Councils aren\u2019t the villains in this issue. Councillors are hard-working and dedicated elected representatives. There are people that work at the councils that have dedicated many years of hard service to their communities. Over successive generations, the councils that currently represent our communities face an issue that they have inherited. It is not their fault but they cannot fix it by themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf we take the Tararua district, for example, they need to find $600 million over the next 30 years\u2014a figure they do not dispute. They have one of the largest roading networks in the country, a huge geographical area, and a very small population that simply cannot find that type of money over the next 30 years, 50 years, or probably even over the next 100 years. They just can\u2019t do it, and the National Party\u2019s solution is to leave them on their own and say they\u2019ll be all right, because National is going to repeal the legislation\u2014or is it repeal and reverse, or is it repeal and replace?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s take their point of view that was stated today\u2014that they\u2019re going to repeal and replace. With what? It\u2019s a very simple question\u2014a question that has been posed for four years. What are they going to replace it with? They have no ideas. They have no policies. That is not a debating point, Mr Speaker; that is a matter of fact. As I was going through the first reading speeches, I came up with an absolute doozy from Matt Doocey\u2014a Doocey doozy. He promised in his first reading speech that the National Party will co-fund this required investment. He said it once and once only. He contributed to the second reading debate, he contributed to the committee of the whole House, and he contributed again today. Did he say it? Did he say it\u2014my foot. Someone got in his ear and said that what he had just committed the National Party to was a $92.5 billion dollar bill, while, at the time, they were proposing $11 billion worth of tax cuts. Even Paul Goldsmith knows that one doesn\u2019t add up. The fact of the matter here is that the National Party are left wanting. I\u2019ll take the opportunity to give the ACT Party credit. I don\u2019t agree with them ever but at least they come up with policies. At least they come to the table with an alternative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EYou will note that Simon Watts has tried a real trick that he tried at the second reading as well. He says that the Government says that there are no alternatives. No, we don\u2019t; we say that they have no alternatives. Communities 4 Local Democracy had an alternative. They presented it to the Government. The Minister Nanaia Mahuta and her officials reviewed it. They discussed it with them, and they appreciate the fact that they actually came up with an alternative, but it didn\u2019t achieve what is needed to be achieved because it doesn\u2019t achieve the balance sheet separation. Simon Watts will scoff, but I\u2019ll make this very simple point. On two occasions in this House he has listed a long list of alternatives\u2014none of them are his\u2014and none of them has he or his party committed to. Make no mistake\u2014the National Party have one policy on this matter and one policy alone, and that is the status quo. They want to leave communities\u2014that can\u2019t afford to do this work\u2014on their own. It is the free market, user-pays mentality that is rife amongst the National Party that is going to leave ratepayers with bills that they simply cannot afford. Even now we are seeing rates rises across the country that people can\u2019t afford, and that doesn\u2019t even take into account the amount of work that is required, which is being outlined by councils day in and day out. And let\u2019s not forget: while some councils agree with three waters proposals and some councils don\u2019t agree with three waters proposals by this Government, every single one of them agrees that the status quo is unsustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo when the National Party members stand up today and paint themselves as the saviour of local government, and, ironically, promote the one thing that the local government sector do not want when it comes to water services, that is called dancing on a pin. That is trying to present an argument and distract from the core issue here\u2014that they have no solution to a problem that is facing this country and is going to cost, over 30 years, $180 billion. At least the ACT Party came up with a solution. Their solution is that they will share the GST from new developments from councils to allow them to invest in water services. Fine, good as gold\u2014a billion a year. It\u2019s a $180 billion problem, and a billion dollars a year is going to take a very long time to solve the issue. So it doesn\u2019t add up, but good on them for coming up with a solution. I don\u2019t agree with the Green Party\u2019s position. They agree with the need for reform, but for particular issues, they\u2019re voting against it, and so too are Te Paati M\u0101ori. But I appreciate and respect that view. At least they\u2019ve got one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAll we\u2019ve heard from the National Party throughout this debate is \u201CNo.\u201D They change their position because they pick up the sentiment in the public. Once they realise that the public recognises that there needs to be reform in water services, they think that the public won\u2019t realise when they change their billboards across the country, except for forgetting to do a few. So if you drive for two hours on State Highway 2 you\u2019ll see a mix of billboards: \u201CWe will repeal and reverse\u201D, \u201CWe will repeal and replace\u201D, advertising to this country that over this whole debate they have changed their view without coming up with a policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EFor four years this issue has been debated. The Government, through the leadership of Nanaia Mahuta\u2014and I take the opportunity to acknowledge her today. She has taken all the rubbish that the National Party has thrown at her, and all the rubbish they have stirred up in our communities, and some that has gone towards the Minister has been incredibly nasty. She has stood strong and stood proud and focused on the issues. She has focused on a solution\u2014the one thing where the National Party refuses to front up. So by all means, run around the country with your slogans, but I implore the National Party to answer one thing when they go and talk to the communities. Justify to their faces how they are happy to leave them with unaffordable rates rises and unsustainable water services in this country when they had an opportunity to engage and had an opportunity to come up with a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b6903859ce1491c93b684608a6bebe9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Water Services Entities Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000175\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f88f570d01d477c97ce8af1a039e7aa\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a416f60413fc454fbd9a657348bcb7b5\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022286d5a3f65ce4b8e9b3a9ad996731130\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022286d5a3f65ce4b8e9b3a9ad996731130\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to cast a proxy vote that was missed last night on the second reading of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Exemption for Race Meetings) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a76b3bd780184c1893eaafeff69b4300\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041ab033d42349f292904bff4af53f3d\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Jo Luxton votes \u201CNo\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f67a3b7fc24fd59151f5b2d98afb52\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The record will be corrected. Therefore, the Ayes are 61, the Noes are 50, Abstentions are 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for consideration of the Electoral Amendment Bill, the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill, and the Natural Hazards Insurance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002220fb951f450e439ea31ccdecc6c5b5a7\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b74af438618f4ad1bba9b064b310f74f\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a700c8e687b240cc84376b65055a107a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a700c8e687b240cc84376b65055a107a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Electoral Amendment Bill, the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill, and the Natural Hazards Insurance Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229509ddc360db483e8fdad86a94c85ceb\u0022\u003EElectoral Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203c0eef17057427586c12c3adac9f4e0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b26d1762d2a4d74b467dc8363feb960\u0022\u003EPart 1  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000189\u0022\u003EAmendments relating to donations and loans\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b83dfe6db80043eba18c9ecae50bcb84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b83dfe6db80043eba18c9ecae50bcb84\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come first to the Electoral Amendment Bill. We come now to Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3A to 18, \u201CAmendments relating to donations and loans\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022786ee644d42a40e0a42de4b79a6763f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022786ee644d42a40e0a42de4b79a6763f6\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on the committee stage of this, the Electoral Amendment Bill, which the National Party is not supporting. The context, for those tuning in to this debate, is that the Government in its wisdom has set up an independent panel to consider a range of things relating to the electoral bill and the way that we run our elections, and that was supposed to be bipartisan\u2014it was claimed to be bipartisan, although we in the National Party on the other side didn\u2019t have any great engagement in the appointment of that panel. Nevertheless, in the meantime, before that panel is supposed to report back after the next election, the Government has brought through this legislation, changing some elements of the electoral law before that group have had their chance to have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe primary change in this legislation in clause 4 is reducing the amount of money\u2014or lowering the threshold\u2014before party donations have to be declared, or the people who make the donation need to be declared, from $15,000 where it has been for nearly 20 years to $5,000. The original proposal was $1,500. So the first question I have for the Minister is what is the issue she\u2019s trying to deal with here? Because the context is there are two thresholds in the electoral bill. One is a $1,500 threshold before people\u2019s names need to be published in relation to donations for candidates. Bearing in mind that under the rules\u2014the electoral rules\u2014candidates can only spend $30,000 in the electoral period, a $1,500 donation would represent about 5 percent of the amount that they are entitled to spend, and the sense was that there\u2019s a certain logic about a relatively significant donation within the context of what a candidate can spend being made public for transparency purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhen we come to the party vote, a party standing in a large number of electorates can spend up to $3 million or more than $3 million in the regulated period. And so a donation of less than $15,000, you know, $14,000, for example, would represent a very tiny fraction of that overall spend. So I wonder whether the Minister might clarify for us: does she think that it\u2019s possible that a party\u2019s policies would be altered in such a way because of such a donation, and what is she concerned about? And secondly, I\u2019d like to know whether she sort of understands the desire of some people to donate to a party without necessarily having their name published\u2014at a reasonable level, because obviously one has to draw a line somewhere and for 20-odd years, or nearly 20 years, $15,000 has been a threshold that people have understood. There are plenty of people around the country who, for good reason, don\u2019t want to have their names published. They might be concerned that they may attract attention from people, they may be worried about future contracts, they may be worried about all sorts of things. I\u2019d be interested to know from the Minister what she thinks about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd then, the broader issue is how does she think parties should be funded, because the natural sort of consequence of this legislation is it in essence makes it more difficult for political parties to raise funds given the reality that some people don\u2019t want to have their names published widely, and so what alternative funding does she have in mind for political parties? Some questions to open up the debate for this clause. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00222a233232a06449bbbfd7bc1c839dbc4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a233232a06449bbbfd7bc1c839dbc4d\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I just acknowledge my colleague the Hon Paul Goldsmith for his questions\u2014and also all of the colleagues who have spent the last period of time engaged on this bill through the select committee process, and those who that have provided their submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EJust coming to the three questions that the honourable member just raised, in terms of the issues that we\u2019re trying to deal with, broadly, the proposed changes are multifaceted: lowering the threshold for publicly disclosing donations and contributions from two parties from $15,000 to $5,000, as Mr Goldsmith rightly identified; amending the reporting requirements for party donations by reducing the threshold from $30,000 to $20,000 and requiring disclosure of donations above the threshold within 10 working days only within a general election year; requiring parties to report non-anonymous donations under $15,000; requiring parties to disclose their annual financial statements; and requiring candidates to publicly report on loans from unregistered lenders to support their campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe issues that we are trying to deal with collectively is enhancing the public\u2019s trust and confidence in our electoral donation system. Recent surveys have shown us that over 70 percent of those that have participated do not have trust or confidence in our electoral donation system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe rationale for splitting out the difference or the variation for candidates and what\u2019s required to be disclosed and the variable thresholds for party donations is based on, first, the current model, to which we are making amendments. But also, when we\u2019ve come to consider the $5,000 threshold\u2014I think that\u2019s the one that my colleague focused on in particular\u2014why that $5,000 threshold? What evidence is there to support that this would be appropriate, and what evidence have we seen that this might work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI think that what we\u2019ve tried to do, and the member will be aware that when we initially tabled these proposals, the threshold that we had proposed to set was at $1,500. Officials during that period of time engaged with all political parties\u2019 secretaries to try to get a real understanding of the practical implications as well as the actual objective that we\u2019re trying to achieve, which is enhancing that trust and confidence of the general public that you don\u2019t by access to political decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe advice and feedback that came back through that process was that the $5,000 threshold strikes the appropriate balance between transparency, privacy, the compliance burden placed on parties, the right to freedom of expression, and sufficient donation revenues for parties. The existing threshold of $15,000 is also, arguably, an arbitrary threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWhat we sought to do then was to look at the thresholds for disclosing the identity of political donors in comparable jurisdictions. We looked to Australia in terms of what the disclosure thresholds were there. In the Australian Capital Territory, their threshold was $1,000, same as in New South Wales and Queensland. We looked to Victoria; again, just over $1,000 was their threshold. We looked over to Canada at a very relatively low threshold; it\u2019s $200 in Ontario, $250 in Alberta and British Columbia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019ve tried to do here is to approach the issues\u2014the thesis that we were trying address: enhance that trust and confidence in our political donation system and then look at the evidence that would support a reduction, but also doing that in quite a practical way. We\u2019re all politicians in this House and we all understand what it is to work with small community\u2014often heavy voluntary basis within the communities. I always think about my own organising committee and think, practically, what will the onus be and the obligations be on those that are members within the political parties and what will the compliance measures mean for them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe addressed that in quite a substantive way, and that was, indeed, the work that the officials had done prior to the bill coming into the House, making sure that the amendments would be workable and practical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI come to that third question that the honourable member put to me. It was, how do we think political parties should be funded? Well, we\u2019re comfortable with the way in which political parties are funded, that we seek donations from those that seek to support us. We\u2019re comfortable with those that seek to support us being required to disclose their identities. We\u2019re comfortable as decision makers to attest to the public, to the general public at large, that whilst we graciously accept support\u2014and fiscal support at that\u2014we don\u2019t have any expectation, or we never purport, that that support for our political party ideology results in tangible power to impact our decisions as decision makers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo at the member also rightly pointed out, we have established an independent electoral panel. They make choose to delve into these issues as to the way political parties are funded in the future, but it\u2019s certainly not something I\u2019m currently considering now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00220751aa8cd4ae45f99ba8b92bc721378b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220751aa8cd4ae45f99ba8b92bc721378b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you to the Minister in the chair, Kiritapu Allan, for the answers to those questions, and a couple of things come out of that. First is the reference to a survey. Yes, a survey was done, I think by Victoria University, on this issue which does seem to point to a sense of public concern around electoral finance. I suppose the obvious question is: well, how is she clear that the concern isn\u2019t around examples of parties allegedly breaking the rules and examples where large donations have been split up, against what the current will rules are. That might be the primary concern and cause of public concern rather than the particular threshold, which is not being altered by this legislation in any way. To split up donations was against the law previously and will be against the law afterwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m not quite clear what the Minister is saying is in the sense that there is a broad concern around electoral finance and therefore we need to make these changes. Drawing that logic would be interesting. It may well be that a general lack of confidence may be related to a general lack of confidence in Government generally and the gap between promises and delivery. That may be a broader challenge for all politicians, that, ultimately, the task of all politicians is to win the confidence of the electorate and to fight for it. So it\u2019s not clear to me from what the Minister says, and just because there are concerns out in the community around electoral finance\u2014my guess is primarily because there have been cases involving allegations of people breaking the rules\u2014doesn\u2019t mean that this change is necessarily justified or required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other key question for the Minister is: does she not think a measure of bipartisan support for electoral law changes is desirable? This is clearly changing the electoral finance rules in a manner which we on this side of the Chamber claim, or are concerned, is skewing the system in favour of some parties over other parties given the history of funding and the way funding operates. We\u2019ve heard quite a lot about the need for bipartisan support around constitutional changes and entrenchment and for changing the voting age, but when it comes to this area, which is an equally important part of how the rules are drawn up for how we conduct elections, how we finance them, this Government is just using its bare majority to change the system, arguably in its favour. I\u2019d like to hear a justification from the Minister for doing that and how she thinks that that is appropriate, if she does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other, sort of, issues raised around how she thinks it will operate, because I think all New Zealanders are absolutely concerned to ensure that our system has integrity and that there is transparency. There\u2019s no question around that; it\u2019s just that the argument that we\u2019re having here is what is the appropriate threshold. The Minister referred to other countries, and, again, I\u2019d like her to tease out the difference between Australian states, for example, where they don\u2019t have an MMP system, they don\u2019t have a party vote system, which is the reason for the two different thresholds in this country. A lower threshold is appropriate in an electoral context where there\u2019s relatively smaller funds being raised and a donation would have a relative significance, whereas the New Zealand context of the party vote is one electorate for the whole country, and therefore a donation, even of $10,000, is very small within the big scheme of things in terms of a party\u2019s overall fund-raising. But those sorts of donations are significant, and, ultimately, it comes back to the need for parties to be funded somehow, and if this legislation makes it more difficult for parties to fund themselves, the logical conclusion is taxpayer funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9917e06d7934fcea51b2156d690552e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9917e06d7934fcea51b2156d690552e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, can I just make this general observation to all members, as you\u2019re thinking of your debate notes. This is Speakers\u2019 ruling 52/4: \u201CA member may not (1) impute improper motives to the Government; (2) suggest that the Government has received orders to put a bill through; (3) impute dishonesty to the Government; [and] (4) suggest domination by outside bodies.\u201D There were several sentences there where it sailed close to some of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022657cccc5d6854f1c890943619ae236ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022657cccc5d6854f1c890943619ae236ca\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in this discussion. I want to pick up on one of the themes that was touched on by the Hon Paul Goldsmith in his comments. He asked what I think is a legitimate question, which is, effectively, the link between the rules and the thresholds that are expressed in Part 1 of the bill and public confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI want to come right to the heart of what I think is one of the main and most important changes that is in this bill, and that is, effectively, the shrinking of the difference between thresholds for local donations and party donations, and I have a question for the Minister as part of this. The question, effectively, is this: is the Minister aware of the fact that the current threshold difference that we have\u2014that is, the difference between $1,500 at the local level and $15,000 for direct declaration\u2014potentially creates a significant arbitrage incentive? And that is that there is a practice, that has been quite widely reported on in the media, of some local candidates being approached for donations that are above the $1,500 level that would have to be reported at the local level, sending them to the party head office where the threshold is $15,000\u2014so these are donations between $1,500 and $15,000\u2014and that the party head office then, effectively, bundles up the total amount of money that is received from that and donates it back to the local campaign as a global figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve seen\u2014and this has come through public reporting, particularly through the National Party\u2019s reporting\u2014that a number of local campaigns receive back donations from the National Party head office, sometimes in the order of $30,000 to $40,000 that have come through donations that are between the $1,500 and $15,000 level, and I wonder whether the Minister thinks that that practice might have some impact on public confidence in the integrity of the current system, and whether she believes that, effectively, the closing of the arbitrage gap\u2014which is currently $1,500 to $15,000, to $1,500 and $5,000\u2014might help to mitigate against that practice, which I consider to be abuse, and I think might bring the current system into disrepute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00223f0119997d6f423cbafa84d03a78dcc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f0119997d6f423cbafa84d03a78dcc1\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the committee in advance. I think it\u2019s easier if I just respond to questions as they come in. That means I won\u2019t have too many bits of paper floating around. I know the member over there has a few questions as well. Look, I\u2019ll start with the last one and then work my way through. I think that Minister Wood\u2019s question goes to the heart of these reforms in the first instance. It was around closing the gap that had been identified, rightly, by multiple observations. And as we\u2019ve been able to see through the public disclosure of campaign funding, where you could see that practice had meant that work-arounds had been pursued. That was indeed why we went to political parties with having the same like-for-like $1,500 dollars for individual campaigns and $1,500 dollars for party campaigns, because we wanted to make sure that those types of practices couldn\u2019t be worked around in the way that the member has correctly identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo to the overarching question: are we satisfied that there is at least a closing of the gap? Yes. The reason that we didn\u2019t expand or maintain the original proposal to have the like-for-like $1,500 disclosure at both candidate and party level was because of the feedback that we received, particularly, from all party secretaries talking about the administrative and procedural implications, which officials advised me on and we subsequently made decisions. So we have sought to close the gap by which exploitations of the system could be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIf I come to the question by the member the Hon Paul Goldsmith with respect to the splitting of donations, it\u2019s like and like in some sense, but the issue has been correctly identified by both sides of the Chamber. The bill doesn\u2019t directly deal with splitting of donations to avoid that closure. That was one of the original intents, as I\u2019ve just walked through. But, yeah, to that more fulsome point, the lower threshold makes it harder to circumvent those disclosure requirements by the splitting of a donation, and so the advice is that more people are likely to fall within the scope of that reduced threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe more political question there was whether there is an attempt to screw the scrum, I think was the k\u012Bwaha. Was it \u201Cscrew the scrum\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe1ee56843b4be9bb4d692751e29f3b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Skew.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3300ca468b4bdcaf5431aae81efa02\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Skew. Screw the scrum\u2014yeah, that would be a bit odd, wouldn\u2019t it? Skew. So whether\u2014[Interruption] I\u2019d better not get into that today\u2014the bill would advantage one political party over another, in short, the response is no. All registered political parties would be required to follow the requirements set out in the bill, if enacted, in the same way all registered parties must comply with all of the existing requirements in the Act. The bill contains flexibility to respond to the differing impacts of the proposals on smaller and larger parties, and, for example, the bill proposes that parties receiving less than $50,000 in donations and that also have no loans within a calendar year would not be required to obtain auditors\u2019 reports for their returns. We\u2019ve thought through those issues in some substantive detail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe member also raised questions about whether that general sense of trust and confidence in our political party donation regime has been caused by party practices and particularly issues that have been evident in the media and also the subject of litigation. I want to get probably to one of the amendments that we\u2019ve decided to introduce as a Supplementary Order Paper, whilst the committee was considering the bill, that responded to the New Zealand First Foundation case in particular. What we could see there and what was highlighted in the High Court\u2019s ruling there was that the court raised a risk that parties may structure their financial affairs in a way that legally avoids Parliament\u2019s intentions for the disclosure of donations and, further, that risk undermining the public trust in the integrity of our political donations regime, and it was something that went to the heart of why we\u2019re introducing these reforms in the first instance, and it was something that we considered that needed to be addressed in advance of the next general election. In absence of doing so, it would completely undermine our political party donation regime. I won\u2019t get into that in any length right now but to say\u2014I think it was well traversed during the Justice Committee inquiry and I\u2019m happy to take questions if there are more on it\u2014we amended the existing definition of \u201Cparty donation\u201D, in particular, to make sure that the work-arounds that had been seen in the particular case and explored by the High Court in their determinations would no longer provide that work-around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EFinally, I think there was one question there just in terms of the way in which we seek to get support for these types of amendments. I think and I hope that it\u2019s seen that we actively do try to get bipartisan support where it\u2019s possible on these types of reforms. I know that the views were sought by the Ministry of Justice from all registered political parties, both in and outside of Parliament. I\u2019ve obviously had discussions with political parties. The former Minister of Justice wrote to all political parliamentary parties, seeking their views on the proposals, and the concerns raised have certainly been things that we have taken into consideration when reworking the amendments. The best example of that, of course, is the raising of the original proposal of the $1,500 donation threshold for party donations and increasing that to $5,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI understand changes were made to the bill during the select committee process as a result of the submission from the National Party, which we acknowledge and thank you for your efforts there. One of those changes that we made was that the bill was clarified to ensure it didn\u2019t impose any retrospective obligations on parties, and that\u2019s something that we really have tried to do. But the overarching principle as to why this bill is in the ballot in the first instance is because there is evidence that says that New Zealanders did not trust the way in which political parties were receiving political donations. The public has the right to know who butters our bread, and these reforms in the round are intended to address exactly those issues that have been raised with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022abfa4db8d48f48dd8721928bf8646ef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abfa4db8d48f48dd8721928bf8646ef0\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to acknowledge the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kiritapu Allan, for her replies and, firstly, as well, that she wrote to all parties\u2014it\u2019s great. There\u2019s a bit of a habit of other Ministers of only writing to one side of the House. I really appreciate that. I think she\u2019s mostly answered my questions around why this is happening now. The initial questions are that bipartisanship has been a little bit broken in this regard. I am still not clear of the urgency, and she has somewhat explained that. I suppose it\u2019s as much a rhetorical question as an actual question to her: is that lack of trust and transparency that\u2019s out in the community\u2014which I\u2019d probably actually agree with\u2014actually related to donations, or is it constitutional overreach and other activities of any political party or Government of the day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EA second question is: why is this coming through now when there is also a review happening? If she wants to talk about trust and transparency, is there any desire within her ministry to finally release the submissions of political parties? I know the National Party\u2019s position is already public. Is there any desire to release that from the likes of the Labour Party and others, simply because we are talking about trust and transparency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EShe referenced, in the plural, that there\u2019s been surveys indicating the need for this legislation. I\u2019m aware of one survey. Now, it could just be a slip of a tongue, a solecism, but if there are surveys, I wouldn\u2019t mind the Minister telling the committee what they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe final two questions\u2014because I don\u2019t want to waste the Minister\u2019s time\u2014is: what consideration was given to the right to privacy? She\u2019s referenced, at least once\u2014perhaps twice\u2014the right to the freedom of expression, and I personally think that\u2019s being challenged here. But what extent was the right of privacy explored by her and her officials? Under clause 4, as we drop the threshold arbitrarily\u2014I think everyone\u2019s agreeing with that; it is in an arbitrary drop\u2014from $15,000 to $5,000, the right to privacy has been undermined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe last question is around the question that the Hon Michael Wood raised\u2014he was talking about arbitrage and systems that might go around. I\u2019m just wondering: is she aware of, effectively, groups of people who unite together? It often happens, not just in the civil service, but often people, if I could use that as an example, in the civil service, paid by the Crown, paid by taxpayers, they, in turn, somewhat voluntarily, give money, over usually a yearly subscription to a group that they feel some unified understanding with. That group, in turn, often generously gives money\u2014very generously gives money\u2014every three years\u2014whopping amounts of money, actually. To people like myself, it seems like a giant circle, because often, this group of people who unite together want a certain Government to remain in power. I\u2019m just wondering, in that line of what Michael Wood was referencing: has she come across any reports of such groups where people pool their money together into this group, and that group, over the years, but often election time, gives whopping donations? I think\u2014and I\u2019m happy to stand corrected\u2014if I\u2019ve got the word right, they\u2019re called \u201Cunions\u201D, but I\u2019d be happy to be corrected on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00228c5c95a3a1994a21a5b27af9459317b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c5c95a3a1994a21a5b27af9459317b8\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E To the last question: no, I haven\u2019t received any concerns, because all of those donations are declared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo the second question that came before: look, I know that there\u2019s been much reference to the Victoria University survey that was done that highlighted the issues that we were seeing play out both in this House, in the courts, in the media, that affirmed the sentiment that there was a dis-ease amongst New Zealanders about the way in which the finances of political parties were managed in an environment where trust and confidence is always at the forefront of our minds when we should be seeking to ensure that Government support its legitimacy. This is one area that we knew that we could address, it\u2019s not an issue that reared its head overnight, and it was something that could be addressed and addressed relatively swiftly. That is why we are making these amendments. We\u2019re making these amendments because they are simply the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve also seen over the last few weeks that there\u2019s been the findings of research conducted over the past year. I\u2019ve just forgotten the authors\u2019 names right now. Max\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224293913add9546c6ab084e3ecb88e987\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Rashbrooke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226516cdbbfb9e46eab325d8e61f5fc72a\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Rashbrooke and others have been looking into political party donations for the period over the last couple of years. It\u2019s probably a crude synopsis, but, I think, their findings and through their extensive engagement with parties up and down the country, all political parties, civil group societies, etc., agree that this is a good first step but there is a lot more work that should be done to ensure that there is the requisite transparency that New Zealanders can rightly expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo why are we doing this now? It\u2019s because New Zealanders deserve to know who is buttering our bread.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThird, there was one\u2014I don\u2019t know whether to respond or not; maybe it\u2019s more in the realm of the political\u2014comment about lack of trust and confidence, as a consequence of constitutional overreach. Look, I don\u2019t think that this is at all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfb3f4331f654f48abca93a3840a65c3\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Take the bait!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ab15966dfd4030aa224b4e3c4043c2\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CTake the bait!\u201D Ha, ha! I\u2019m not in the mood. Look, I genuinely think that if we are concerned about the state of our constitutional arrangements in New Zealand, the biggest thing that we can do is take New Zealanders with us. They want to understand how we give our time, our energy, to stakeholders. They want to know whether money carries weight and buys access. We as a Government want to dissipate that perception, and, therefore, as a consequence, these amendments that we are making to the political donation scheme right now are the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc17bde6dc5942f088c3a4df036b5b14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc17bde6dc5942f088c3a4df036b5b14\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next caller, I do want to say this\u2014especially to the last member who made his comments before he sat down and the Minister took over\u2014I want to remind everyone in this Chamber of the Speakers\u2019 ruling 52/4, \u201CA member may not \u2026 (4) suggest domination by other bodies.\u201D I would like the member Simon O\u2019Connor to withdraw and apologise, because he did, towards the end, make a suggestion about domination and named a body, which I\u2019m not going to name again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49aa4c56e95439995a32af5ec0882c1\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8710c5780e240e28a36b8ec77bbad08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8710c5780e240e28a36b8ec77bbad08\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to start off my contribution, first of all, to thank the Minister for coming to the Justice Committee for a hearing and to answer questions. That was a new approach for us, and one that managed to get us all through the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper and to support it, even though we don\u2019t support the bill itself. So I just wanted to thank you and acknowledge you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMinister, within the bill, in Part 1, there are a couple of things I\u2019d just like to pick up on. One is where you\u2019ve talked about the transparency and trust and confidence. You know, we\u2019ve had the Victoria University survey, and Max Rashbrooke has written his article about it as well. One of the concerns that I\u2019ve had\u2014and my colleagues next to me have addressed this as well\u2014is about whether or not it is about political donation, monetary donation, or whether it\u2019s actually about the trust and confidence of what\u2019s happening in the day, not only in New Zealand, but, of course, when we are looking at what\u2019s happening across the world, and the way that other political parties have been operating, especially in areas like the United States, for example, and whether or not that has discouraged the trust and confidence of Kiwis in the way that our own political system may work. And then I ask the Minister whether it\u2019s actually just about the political donations, or just whether it\u2019s the way that Governments as a whole, worldwide, are working and operating at the moment that causes that decrease in trust and confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMinister, when we\u2019re looking at the support that the parties need to be able to operate during an election year, one of the issues that my colleague next to me raised is one that you may have missed, because you were talking to an official. It was about that right of freedom of expression for those that do give political donations, and being able to ensure that privacy is attained, in some way, for some people who just want to be able to express financial support for the political party of their choice, and whether or not we actually cease people feeling that they are able to financially contribute because of the fear of being named and shamed for doing so, and whether we have any ability to be able to protect some individuals\u2014not necessarily companies, but the individuals who wish to financially support a party\u2019s policies and then feel that they may be cancelled, named, or shamed, because of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMinister, while I\u2019m on my feet, I\u2019d also like to ask about the $40,000 fine that could be attributed to those parties who fail, within a reasonable time, to comply with section 207B of the Act\u2014$40,000 is a lot of money, Minister. When we\u2019re looking at the start-up of quite a few smaller parties that are wanting to come through, this is actually big bucks for them. My concern, Minister, is that it will potentially stop new political parties from arising and wanting to represent others within their community as well, because we are putting excessive rules and regulations upon them that they would have to comply with when they\u2019re just trying to start out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhen I look at clause 4(3), Minister, I can see some of the work that will be involved by volunteers in having to comply with these massive amounts of reporting. It\u2019s almost so bureaucratic it makes it untenable for some to be able to actually work their way through it all. I wonder, Minister, what your thoughts are this particular part, especially clause 4(2) and (3) and whether it would have a detrimental effect on others wanting to come to this House and represent people of our community as well, and whether we\u2019re actually just keeping this for the bigger parties and the bigger minority parties instead of allowing everyone in New Zealand to have the opportunity to be represented in this House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9b41c8e6ec7459095f9610f3517ffda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9b41c8e6ec7459095f9610f3517ffda\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member from the ACT Party for her considered contribution. You are right; I did miss that question with respect to the balance between privacy and that freedom of expression to be able to contribute. So turning to that question first, one of the things that we did closely through the development and evolution of the bill was to work with the Privacy Commissioner to ensure that we were striking the right balance. One of the caveats, I guess, or one of the safeguards that we also have available to us is that within the Electoral Act, there is the donations protected from disclosures scheme to address exactly some of those issues, where people can make donations up to $50,000 if they have a reason or rationale for not wanting to be disclosed. Those contributions go to the Electoral Commission and then are filtered out to the requisite party. But there are some checks and balances on that, and that\u2019s one of the ways that we\u2019ve sought to be able to strike that balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETurning to the second issue, just around the $40,000 fine if found guilty upon conviction. What we did there, I looked at a range of different thresholds to find schemes within the Electoral Act. What I did is I, essentially, pulled over what was already the existing fines schemes within the Act, noting that it cannot exceed that amount. It\u2019s not a base amount of $40,000. We certainly wouldn\u2019t want that to be seen as a barrier for participation in our democratic institutions. I guess the only real risk there that one would come up against is if they weren\u2019t administering their affairs appropriately. A court would exercise their discretion if they were right at the egregious end of a breach that would warrant that type of magnitude of a penalty, but that would certainly be at their discretion. But, yeah, I didn\u2019t want to introduce a new type of threshold into the Act, given we already had thresholds that had been tested and proven.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00224d567b751f454fa58fae6cc697ca2910\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d567b751f454fa58fae6cc697ca2910\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There\u2019s been a comment made by the Minister of Justice this morning about New Zealanders deserving to know who was buttering our bread, and there\u2019s been a number of food references, and there have been a number of kaik\u014Drero in the House\u2014speakers in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo it brings me to clause 3A, the amended interpretation of the definition of \u201Cparty donation\u201D. So I\u2019ve lead into this k\u014Drero, this discussion, with reference to food. Many of our M\u0101ori communities koha kai by way of a donation. So Minister, I\u2019ve made inquiries with my colleagues who did sit on the Justice Committee\u2014I didn\u2019t sit on it\u2014but in my eye and my whakaaro, my mind and my thoughts, looking at this legislation, I know that, in many M\u0101ori communities\u2014and this would have bearing and relevance not just to the M\u0101ori electorates but also the general electorates and the candidates\u2014a koha or a donation is not always in monetary terms. It\u2019s often, for many of our communities, by way of kai. But also it\u2019s been identified that the definition of \u201Cparty donation\u201D means a donation, \u201Cwhether of money or of the equivalent of money or of goods or services or of a combination of those\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo Minister, how is this legislation going to address koha by way of donation to a candidate or to the party? Many of us have feasted at h\u0101kari when we\u2019re at the marae or at a gathering of a public place, and that is a means of a koha or a donation in many instances. So I note, Minister, that there\u2019s been no interpretation. It appears that there\u2019s been no consideration as to how to define \u201Ckoha\u201D in a cultural context and whether advice was provided in terms of the information and the definition that\u2019s supplied by the Inland Revenue Department, in terms of quantifying and also qualifying koha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002286b5a04870004b65be4c4c027ef42e93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286b5a04870004b65be4c4c027ef42e93\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I can assure the member that we are not making any changes to the equivalency functions, and that unless any of us indulge in kai that exceeds the value of $1,500, then we should all be absolutely fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ELook, if somebody wants to koha the equivalent of\u2014oh gosh, what would that be these days?\u2014maybe four pigs or four, eight, or 16 maybe, you\u2019d be getting up to about that value where you\u2019d want to note that that is the fiscal equivalent of a $1,500 donation to a candidate. So like you ordinarily would in any context, when you receive a koha at the marae, you note what it is, you look to its value because you know you\u2019ll have to disclose that in your ordinary accounts\u2014the same applies for parliamentarians and politicians, and nothing there changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cec0cd89c72a4b3fba9b51d19937a264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cec0cd89c72a4b3fba9b51d19937a264\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of questions: the Minister did very often refer to the fact that the people in New Zealand need to know who\u2019s buttering the bread of politicians, and, of course, the obvious point to make is that there are a number of ways in which an individual can help a political party, and giving them some money is one way. The obvious other primary way is to volunteer and offer one\u2019s services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df58d7b93b894fbba5bad0b3e10aa6c9\u0022\u003ENicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Kaimahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e37681eaa94adfaaef4e2b0fa700d9\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: To work, that\u2019s right. So I\u2019m sort of just wondering what the Minister\u2019s not proposing in this bill\u2014it doesn\u2019t propose any changes to that, but, I mean, if somebody was to volunteer their time full-time, that would be worth a hang of a lot more than $15,000 or $5,000 or $1,500, but it\u2019s not something that she and the Government regards as something that the people of New Zealand need to know from a transparency point of view. And so I\u2019m just interested in the logic there behind her thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESecondly, I heard the comments of the Hon Michael Wood around the gap between the party threshold and the electorate threshold and whether this opens a back door for donations from the party to electorates in order to confound the thresholds. And I suppose, again, the obvious point is, well, if people were worried about that there are different ways in which to remedy that. One simple option would be to limit the amount\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffdf28d196a04a69b4d5cffda01509ab\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Stop your National Party laundering, that would be one way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d681f911baa9467ebc441e68fc6deb3f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227728354c4dba41d6bae4777a0613c4b2\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e1a093e5a648a88eac474124ff0a76\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. So, I mean, the obvious point would be to say that another alternative would be to limit the amount that a party could donate to an electorate contest. That\u2019s another way of doing it. So did the Minister consider other options, and isn\u2019t that precisely one of the things that the independent panel that she pulled together is supposed to be considering? Minister Wood raises a potential problem, and so the question I have for the Minister is, well, did she consider other alternatives to rectifying that problem, of which there are many, aside from lowering the threshold which happens to have other consequences?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second point I wanted to make was the Minister referred, very often, to the public polls and the concerns that the public apparently have in some of these polls around the electoral finance regime. I\u2019d like her to comment also on other polls which show a very clear majority of New Zealanders do not favour a switch to taxpayer funding of political parties. And the point I\u2019m making, the fundamental objection we have to this legislation, is by making it more difficult for parties to raise funds there is a logical sort of push or direction towards more taxpayer funding of political parties because parties have to be funded in some way or other. And she referred to Max Rashbrooke, who is clearly in favour of taxpayer funding of political parties rather than fundraising. So given the very strong public poll indications that people don\u2019t favour that, I\u2019d like her to comment on why she thinks some polls are relevant or helpful to her argument and others aren\u2019t, and if she could give some comment on that, I\u2019d be grateful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022433ef012bbe84e508c5c6f35244f01a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022433ef012bbe84e508c5c6f35244f01a5\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, very clear: this bill does not contemplate taxpayer funding of elections, so it\u2019s outside the scope and it\u2019s not something I\u2019m considering. Secondly, to the issue raised around the way in which services by individuals are quantified, so currently in these provisions that we aren\u2019t changing, where a person volunteers their services that they would ordinarily charge for, those are considered political donations and need to be disclosed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00223f1b623bf4c04fa685e0517c4ab33f65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f1b623bf4c04fa685e0517c4ab33f65\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00222da63fc3bd544b3f8d95d177ebab74ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222da63fc3bd544b3f8d95d177ebab74ef\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, my question here is on clause 8, which will be amending section 212. I\u2019m going to be a little bit mischief here because I think, you know, if we\u2019re worried about political donations, then we\u2019ve got to think of the mischievousness that could evolve from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMinister, it\u2019s about the loans in clause 8(1), and it\u2019s about loans to candidates and loans to a party. In section 212, new paragraph (a)(i), talks about a loan for the use of a candidate\u2019s campaign needs to be divulged unless it comes from a registered lender\u2014in other words, like a bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo my question\u2014the mischief question, Minister\u2014is, what happens then if a candidate or a party then gets a bank loan but a potential donor pays off that bank loan, rather than giving their money to the political party? I just wonder whether or not that had been considered. What are your thoughts on that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002221f907a897e04f7c8cfd62249906e384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f907a897e04f7c8cfd62249906e384\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, that\u2019s a mischievous question. I can confirm\u2014I\u2019ve just confirmed with my official\u2014that that is something that they contemplated, and it would be considered a political donation, by which it would need to be disclosed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b5d197df3fe4d3889afe939587246c7\u0022\u003EPart 2  Other amendments \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13ccdd76b104af0a6222cefaff802fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13ccdd76b104af0a6222cefaff802fb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 19 to 42 and the Schedule\u2014other amendments. The question is that Part 2 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022520fc65b69d844e983fea126259fa1bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022520fc65b69d844e983fea126259fa1bb\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a question for the Minister and the officials. I\u2019m a little confused at clauses 19 and 20, which amend the same section. Clause 19 looks to amend section 80(1)(a) by replacing \u201C3 years\u201D with \u201C6 years\u201D, and to amend section 80(1)(b) by replacing \u201C12 months\u201D with \u201C4 years\u201D, but then clause 20 reverses them back again. I\u2019m a little confused about that, and I wonder, Minister, whether or not you could explain what\u2019s going on there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022155107db03094b0ca6b305ffab8af3ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022155107db03094b0ca6b305ffab8af3ea\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I can see why that would raise questions for the member. In brief, the summary is that clause 19 deals with the extensions out to the 2023 election, and in clause 20, those amendments extend the provisions out to the 2026 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266663f1632bd4d3f818d3e1dd3346e2a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002209245726b41c4b83afd43b4f0b6a3723\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d54e0386759e4b39afc9f87591ec0e2e\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00223508b6338416416fa18867ed4b140f68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223508b6338416416fa18867ed4b140f68\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to our final debate. This is the debate on clauses 1 to 3, the debate on the title, commencement, and the principal Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb2cbb24e40a4bf59f1f01fb2c7ab05c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb2cbb24e40a4bf59f1f01fb2c7ab05c\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to speak to Supplementary Order Paper 316 in my name. It amends the start date\u2014the commencement date\u2014of this bill by changing it from January 2023 to 31 December 2023. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMy reasoning for this is because election year is upon us. And while we understand that the Minister and the Government is looking for some transparency, we also need to be able to have time for political parties to be able to get themselves in order for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI would have thought\u2014the ACT Party would have thought\u2014that being able to implement a new regime, especially in an election year, which is upon us, is rushed and unnecessary; that looking at the transparency that we need should be looked at for the 2026 election; and, in fact, that if we amend the date to 31 December 2023, we would allow all political parties a just way to be able to participate in the 2023 election without fear of fine or consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo Minister, I\u2019d like to know whether or not the Government would support my Supplementary Order Paper to extend the commencement date to 31 December 2023. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00220181e8b37981417799b2efbc5a7891bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220181e8b37981417799b2efbc5a7891bd\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Just to acknowledge the member for her thoughts and considerations that have gone into preparing Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 316. Two parts, probably, in my response before I inevitably let you down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EFirst is that when we\u2019ve thought about the design of this as the scheme for next year and how it might practically work, I have confidence in the fact that in terms of the actual reporting\u2014the system that\u2019s currently in place\u2014there are very minor amendments that will be required to be understood by political parties, I understand, in terms of the way that the reporting is conducted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThen the actual returns for next year\u2019s general election won\u2019t be required until 2024. So there\u2019s certainly a sufficient amount of time to make sure that any of our political parties won\u2019t have to have fear of any negative ramifications as a consequence of stuffing up reporting. Got some confidence there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIn terms of the way that really structured my views here, the problem we\u2019ve got is that if we were to adopt this type of approach, it would be a two-stage commencement process for these political donations. In terms of what we\u2019re trying to do here, I guess, is enhance the public\u2019s confidence in the transparency of our system. This, of course, would create further ambiguity and probably would be counterproductive to the ultimate purpose that we seek to embed with these amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo we won\u2019t be supporting the SOP, but we do have confidence that there will be enough time for political parties to be able to understand how to report and adequate timing by the time those annual returns are required to be in in 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022738763a4dd4b4dd590909c0256c276f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64, Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226e74f3de8ec24c8489ddb1256faf5689\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e74f3de8ec24c8489ddb1256faf5689\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Nicole McKee\u2019s amendments to clause 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 316 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a3f28945a3914ef3aa80bc3f2b2118eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eedc4bdbadba43048ec331c19d4aff3f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002219ccb898fc5c488c862f559a47618767\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 28; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000283\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222faeb50293214981b3bee604806c2383\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022036aaf69042e41f39e985e4e7fabe25b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279b95a1925a049f4ab80c2fd6c79c821\u0022\u003EPart 1  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000287\u0022\u003EAmendments to principal Act\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002282215a239d304f4b947f6fbed80c7f22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282215a239d304f4b947f6fbed80c7f22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill. We begin now with the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 4 to 53, and the Schedule, which are the amendments to the principal Act. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1a71f88664b46c98adee13e1134d382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1a71f88664b46c98adee13e1134d382\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227d07cef8364340ce811af6e79619670b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d07cef8364340ce811af6e79619670b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2bb0d3270c948be94fe70a6b1a2795c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2bb0d3270c948be94fe70a6b1a2795c\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in New Zealand. It is responsible for 15 percent of all deaths in New Zealand at the moment. This Government is determined to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00224f21b8fbda034ec2acb85c638c9425ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f21b8fbda034ec2acb85c638c9425ad\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this bill and to speak to Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in my name, on behalf of the National Party, that seek to improve the proposal that\u2019s on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to speak to the SOP 312 first of all, which seeks to take into account the proximity of specialist vape retailers when new licenses are announced. This Supplementary Order Paper amends the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill. It addresses concerns about large numbers of specialist vaping retailers clustering together in close proximity to each other and their potential impact on under-age vaping especially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn July 2022, Local Government New Zealand member councils passed a remit proposed by the Kaipara District Council that called for the retail availability of vapes to be limited to specialist stores and for proximity restrictions. At that time, Kaipara Mayor Dr Jason Smith said, \u201CWithout these measures in place, we could end up with more situations like the one in Dargaville, whose main street has 13 places where people can buy vapes. This includes 3 specialist vape stores within 150 metres of each other\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EVaping is an important vehicle for smoking reduction. However, there are widespread community concerns, including from parents and schools, around the significant increase in under-age vaping. The concern is that large numbers of specialist vape stores in close proximity unnecessarily contribute to under-age vaping, and that the same overall smoking reduction benefits could be achieved without proximity clustering. To date, there is little evidence for market-forces correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThis SOP provides a mechanism for the Director-General of Health to have regard to the proximity of other specialist vape retailers when granting approval to new specialist retailers. It addresses the concerns of local bodies for greater regulatory control, as well as the concerns of parents, schools, and the community to better manage the significant increase in under-age vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ELocal Government New Zealand, when they passed this, said this: \u201CNew Zealand was late to the party passing laws regulating the sale of vape products and that\u2019s left our communities playing catch up \u2026 Between 2018 and 2021, daily vaping rose from 2 percent to nearly 10 percent amongst 14- to 15-year-olds. We can\u2019t afford this trend to continue. While we support the supply of vapes to people wanting to stop smoking, we don\u2019t want to see young people who\u2019ve never smoked in their life taking it up. That means we must stop vapes from being [as] readily available in our dairies, supermarkets, and service stations. We need to get the balance right because even though vaping is less harmful than smoking, we don\u2019t know what the long-term effects are. Councils play a major role in promoting the wellbeing of their communities. Concerns around youth vaping is one issue mayors and councillors hear about time and time again from worried parents.\u201D They then go on to talk about the situation in Dargaville.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThis SOP makes a sensible addition to what is already on the table. It is a community-led initiative recommended by Local Government New Zealand. So let\u2019s be clear, then: to vote this down is to vote down a community request that will send a signal that confirms this Labour Government\u2019s ideology of \u201CGovernment knows best; Wellington knows best\u201D and that they don\u2019t listen or care for the local voice of councils and ratepayers. This SOP improves the vaping environment and we ask the Government and other parties to consider supporting this as part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI have two other SOPs, the second of which I\u2019ll talk to. It talks to a schedule change, which was raised in the second reading, that achieves, in my view and in our view, the same goals we all want\u2014we don\u2019t disagree in the goals, but we do disagree in the scheduling. We think what we want to do is we want to be able to achieve those goals with the least harm possible. To do that, we\u2019re proposing that denicotinisation be the first action that kicks off in this bill, and that we give it, roughly, over two years so that we can watch and observe if this is effective or not. Certainly, the modelling suggests it will be, but we should put this to the test before we reduce our hard-working small retailers, businesses, and local dairies, before we eviscerate them from 6,000 down to 600 being able to retail smoke products. We should put this to the test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThis SOP suggests exactly that with a proposal that suggests denicotinisation within 18 months of commencement of the bill, a review period 30 months after commencement so that we can see if denicotinisation has worked or not. If it\u2019s already been successful and mostly achieved, like the modelling suggests it would, the targets we\u2019re looking for, then there is nothing more to do, we don\u2019t need to do any further damage. If not, then we would need to entertain the other two options in this bill: retail reduction and the smoke-free generation. We think this heads us in the direction we want to go and does the least harm possible, particularly to those small retailers and dairy owners who are already severely hurting from ram raids and burglaries and other items. So I\u2019ll come to my other\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002241db8a76238c4654b52eee6923970db4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241db8a76238c4654b52eee6923970db4\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just want to acknowledge my learned colleague Dr Shane Reti, the future health Minister of New Zealand, who once again rides to the rescue of this Government. Let\u2019s remember when Dr Shane Reti went off round the world and came back with a medicinal cannabis framework that was better than the Government, with their thousands of bureaucrats, could put together. This is quite rightly, Dr Shane Reti, focusing in on vaping. And I agree with Dr Shane Reti that there is evidence that vaping can help those adults who are addicted smokers to transition to something that is not safe but less harmful, and we welcome that. That gives smokers tools in their tool box to make choices for healthier lifestyles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhere we are very concerned is the number of young people who are taking up vaping and who have not been smoking traditional cigarettes before. Now, this rings quite closely home to me. I had a constituent appointment recently with two mums who came to talk about their sons, who were being sold vapes at an age they should not have been sold them. At their request, I followed up with the local police, who said this was not on their radar, nor would they follow up on it\u2014the selling of vapes to the under age. So I think this is very timely. It\u2019s come at a time when there does need to be some oversight. I\u2019d ask the Minister whether she will support these two Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) around proximity and ensuring those who should not be accessing vapes don\u2019t get access to them. So I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister whether she and her Government will support these very good SOPs from Dr Shane Reti, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022eae24b6abdad4c2da2d0314f24859787\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eae24b6abdad4c2da2d0314f24859787\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you, Madam Chair. A very interesting debate that we\u2019re having about the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in the name of Dr Shane Reti. So I thought it would be worthwhile to add some Green contributions and perspective to this one, and also just to ground what we\u2019re actually talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think that, actually, in the bill as presented by the Minister, there are new regulations proposed for vaping and for vaping retailers, and there are new considerations for the Director-General of Health\u2014for example, as in the parts that Dr Reti\u2019s SOP 312 proposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ECurrently already in the Minister\u2019s proposal, there is a requirement for the director-general to take into account the geographic location of the retail premises and, secondly, the population in relation to which the retailer carries out their business and, thirdly, any criteria prescribed in regulation. I think it\u2019s important to note that what we\u2019re debating could potentially come out in the regulation process, but also that there already is consideration of the geography and of the population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI do want to take on board, however, the points that have been made by Dr Reti about the fact that there is the opportunity to consider, particularly proximity of other retail premises already selling these goods. To that effect, I just challenge the logical consistency of the National Party here, because just last night we were talking about local voice\u2014we were talking about that in relation to another drug that causes quite a bit of harm in this country, and we were talking about that in the context of removing special appeals processes for local alcohol policies, which have, of course, allowed massive corporations to stymy local voice in the establishment of local alcohol policies. So I\u2019m just asking for a little bit of logical consistency from the National Party there\u2014hopefully not all too much to ask for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENone the less, I think that this is a question that still goes to the core of the Minister\u2019s contributions, which I hope she\u2019ll soon stand and take a call, which is just to really flesh out the concerns that have been raised by Dr Reti. I\u2019m of two minds\u2014I do feel as though making it explicit could be beneficial, but I also feel as though it could potentially already be encapsulated by virtue of the drafting that\u2019s come to the Chamber today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00229c96223151d14056a06d468293b985d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c96223151d14056a06d468293b985d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank members for those contributions. So the Government will not be supporting Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 312. The reason for that is that I don\u2019t believe it achieves what the purpose statement sets out to, and therefore it is ineffective. So the SOP proposes a new section 20P(3), after paragraph (b). So that means that the Director-General of Health would only need to give regard to proximity when the lower total vape sales threshold is. So, I think, due to the technicalities of how it\u2019s been written up, it wouldn\u2019t have the policy intent that the members proposes. There is still the ability for regulations to be passed about the location of vape stores, so the ability to take that into account is a power that the director-general has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EHowever, I would just note that it is interesting to hear a discussion about the desires of communities to remove vape stores, when we have heard in the debate on this bill previously that the desires of communities to have tobacco\u2014which is far more harmful\u2014removed from their communities through retail reduction is not supported by all members of the House. So I do think, both for the technical way that it is drafted and the lack of consistency and the being tougher on a substance that is less harmful than tobacco, that is why we won\u2019t be supporting SOP 312.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe4fcf41f8c9477d87ef5cda990b18c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe4fcf41f8c9477d87ef5cda990b18c5\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister, the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall, for that offering. Can I comment that the policy intent is correct; it was drawn up not by myself but with expertise from the Table Office. So we have that assurance that it is a correct policy intent. I\u2019d like to put that to rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESecondly, if she wants to say that the geography component\u2014the descriptor\u2014in this bill does take into account proximity and put that on the Hansard record, that goes some way to alleviating the concerns that we\u2019re bringing to this Table. I agree with the Green member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick that, for removal of doubt, we believe it is useful to explicitly put it there. But, if the member says it is taken into account, put it on the Table; say the geography descriptor in this bill takes into account proximity, and that does make some progress towards that end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe other Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) I want to talk to is an SOP that further progresses this discussion around under-age vaping. This is a Supplementary Order Paper in my name, on behalf of the National Party, that, again, amends the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill. It addresses the widespread community concerns from parents and schools particularly, which my colleague Matt Doocey has talked about as well, around the significant increase in under-age vaping. This SOP remedies this by emphasising the importance of monitoring under-age access to, and the use of, vaping products. This includes legislative compliance with activities such as vaping acquisition, as well as support for local policies preventing under-age vape use in controlled environments such as schools and community facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENational supports vaping and the desirable impact it has had for adult smokers; however, we share the concerns of parents, communities, and schools about the increase in under-age vaping\u2014a tripling, in fact. We should be cautious about the nicotine in vaping products and young people. If we look at some of the recent headlines, two months ago, \u201CChristchurch vape retailers fined over under age sales. Seven Christchurch vape retailers fined after selling products to minors.\u201D About a week ago, another article\u2014actually, I\u2019ll come to one from a little bit further back: \u201CA vaping problem of almost epidemic proportions has arrived in Christchurch after first hitting Auckland schools two years ago.\u201D This is from a principal. Principals are alarmed at the growing number of students who vape, with one saying children as young as 13 are using the cigarette substitutes\u2014principal after principal expressing what parents have concern with as well. And then, about a month ago, \u201CStudents ripping down vaping detectors in schools as New Zealand battles a teen vaping epidemic.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ETime after time, we\u2019re seeing schools particularly, and concerned parents, saying we are concerned about under-age vaping\u2014and I believe we all are as well. So we are of the view that we need to increase that compliance, increase that monitoring in a safe way around the acquisition of under-age vaping products. This bill does do some things around identification, for example, of online acquisition. We think we should be doing more\u2014that is clearly wrong\u2014and also providing visible support to schools and to parents, saying, \u201CYes, we agree with you. Under-age vaping is not a good thing. How can we help you? What resources can we bring? What other policies can we bring that say especially the Director-General of Health needs to take this into account? We consider it a problem.\u201D Everyone considers it a problem. We are supporting the voice of schools and communities in asking for further compliance monitoring of under-age vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAnd, again, to turn this down would be to turn down that voice, to say one hasn\u2019t listened, to say that, no, we know best; we think it\u2019s all going to make its way out in the wash. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s correct. I think we all have concerns for under-age vaping. Let\u2019s make it explicit. Let\u2019s put a flag in the sand and say, \u201CHere\u2019s what we will do to support parents, support schools, and support communities.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022011381381fd1469f985c10eea4628205\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022011381381fd1469f985c10eea4628205\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s good to hear that statement on the concerns we all share about under-age vaping. Indeed, it is under age. Specialist vape stores are R18, and vaping is not permitted in schools. I can reassure the member Dr Shane Reti that section 20P(2) enables the Director-General of Health to make other requirements that are in regulation a criteria for the granting of a specialist vape store. So that power sought through Supplementary Order Paper 312 is available were those regulations to be in place. So that\u2019s already a possibility if regulations are made on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ETo pick up the member\u2019s other concerns about monitoring, indeed we\u2019re lucky to have good surveys of youth vaping use in New Zealand. So that has meant we have got a timely alert about the increasing youth vaping rates. We have some survey data on the ways in which young people come to access vapes, which is invariably through friends, more so than through stores. Those types of information that the Ministry of Health collect are very helpful in formulating other control measures that can be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00229873a7317e604997a3ab8451320b7558\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229873a7317e604997a3ab8451320b7558\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E In a previous offering, I put to the Minister, the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall, that if she believed the geographic descriptor in the bill covered the proximity issue that Local Government New Zealand and the National Party have brought to the Table, put it on the Hansard record here now. Say it is\u2014that it takes proximity into account\u2014and that then sort of alleviates some of the concerns we have. We think it should be more explicit. But, if that is your view and the advice you\u2019re getting, put it on the record here today so that legislative avenues and other policy makers can see that, yes, that is correct; it is already covered with that descriptor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002218a763397d904b669054887a27cac03c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218a763397d904b669054887a27cac03c\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I would like to go back to the Minister in the chair\u2019s comments around drawing a parallel to Dr Shane Reti\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) around proximity and how inconsistent that is with the primary bill before the committee, retrospectively wanting to reduce the number of tobacco retailers from 6,000 to 600. Because what this Government\u2019s got form on is that when the Opposition is right, they start muddying the waters. So, of course, the bill we\u2019re discussing today is retrospective of reducing the amount of tobacco sellers from 6,000 to 600. But, of course, Dr Shane Reti\u2019s SOP is proximity for future growth, so it won\u2019t actually be reducing the number of vapes; all it will be doing is taking into consideration proximity for future growth. So I would ask the Minister how she draws a parallel between the SOP around proximity and a key part of the bill we\u2019re debating today around reducing from 6,000 to 600. And is that a correct comparison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00224d59b8fc8b7448beba50d5eea4581a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d59b8fc8b7448beba50d5eea4581a50\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d also note a little bit further around the removal or reduction of retailers from 6,000 to 600\u2014the industry has come back and said they would like more time on that. What engagement has the Minister had with small businesses in that regard and is she is open to any means to potentially extend that? I think they asked for a two-year runway just to give them a chance to adjust their business model. We know a lot of small retailers in New Zealand have taken a real pounding over the past couple of years, and we certainly don\u2019t want to see another whole lot go down the gurgler. We obviously don\u2019t want their business model supported by tobacco, but we have to be realistic. That\u2019s the situation we\u2019re in. I ask whether the Minister will be open to affording them a bit more time\u2014two years\u2014to adjust that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EAnother thing is around the proximity of vape stores, which has come up, and I speak here as someone who has smoked cigarettes and vapes\u2014I think they\u2019re extremely addictive. I\u2019ve personally found vapes to be a lot more addictive than cigarettes. They have disposable ones out now. They\u2019re $10. They\u2019re very cheap and very accessible. I went to a pharmacy the other day because I\u2019m a healthy boy and I wanted to buy some vitamins to boost my immune system. And, blow me down! Behind the counter, there were vapes. They were selling vapes in a pharmacy and I was pretty shocked to see that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to know what the Minister would do to limit the number of vape stores. The impression I got from that was that anyone could just kind of\u2014it didn\u2019t seem to me that a pharmacy should be selling vapes; pharmacies are meant to be about health and there they were selling these products. I found that pretty concerning. So what limits, as far as retailers or different sorts of retailers, would the Minister look at in regards to who can supply vapes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also echo the comments that my colleagues have made around what is really a vaping epidemic in our youth. For people who are elderly, like myself and want to transition, cool\u2014quite good in that regard. But the uptake from young people, they don\u2019t have to go through the punishment that smokers do with the smell and people looking at you like you\u2019re a bit of a social leper; they can sneak it in there and do it inside. I think there\u2019s a real issue there. And I just want to reiterate that the good points that Dr Reti has raised in his Supplementary Order Paper. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3890d3af4924a31983c719098f4aadd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3890d3af4924a31983c719098f4aadd\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Let me, perhaps, just help the committee with clarity on the two different requirements for retailers. This bill introduces new requirements for tobacco retailers that include criteria on where smoke product retailers should be and include a specific requirement for the Director-General of Health in saying where tobacco retailers are to take into account geography. My reference to section 20P(2) is with respect to vaping store location. The director-general has the power to be able to act on other regulation to specify where specialist vape retailers are. So it is different in keeping with the desire to have risk-proportionate regulation, given that tobacco is the product that has the highest risk to health. In fact, it is New Zealand\u2019s leading cause of preventable death. That is why there is greater restriction on the sale of tobacco than on vapes, but the power to do both vaping and tobacco store geographic restrictions, if they\u2019re supported by regulations, are present in the bill for both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EReturning to some of the other comments around the number of retailers and the time to transition, it is perhaps worth just taking the big picture here. The smoke-free goal was set in 2011, following the report of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee into tobacco harm. Parties on all sides of the House have supported that goal since that time, and we have as a country achieved a great deal of progress. The smoking rate\u2014the only data point I have\u2014is from 2016. Our smoking rate was 16 percent 10 years ago, and it has now come down to 8 percent. So the point is that demand for this product has been going down over time, and what we seek to do, in achieving the smoke-free aim, is go that final bit of the distance to get the smoking rate down beneath 5 percent for all population groups. So in the big picture, this has been a long-term trend in this market, the reduction of demand for tobacco. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn addition to the warning that the setting of the goal in 2011 was to the industry, there has been consultation on this bill. In 2021, we had a discussion document out. We received a wide range of feedback, including from communities impacted by tobacco as well as retailers. This has been a measure that has been signalled, really, for more than decade, and that is the reason why the time to introduce these measures and change is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00224e858e07d479460ea3d2df1bc996f734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e858e07d479460ea3d2df1bc996f734\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m pleased to take a call in this committee of the whole House stage. It was nice to hear from the Minister about the reduced rates of smoking. They have been declining for some time and, as we know, the young people don\u2019t view smoking as cool any more. They see it as something disgusting that older people do that they don\u2019t want to partake in. But what hasn\u2019t been mentioned is the rapid escalation in vaping. We have replaced smoking\u2014which we\u2019ve done such a great job on\u2014with vaping. It is a massively widespread, colourfully packaged, lovely smelling product that\u2014let\u2019s be frank\u2014is aimed at kids, and that is why these two Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) proposed by my good colleague Dr Shane Reti are so important today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOne of the things that\u2019s really important is his Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 315, especially the insertion of new section 99A(1)(b): \u201Csupport policies preventing the use of vaping products by people under the age of 18 years\u201D. I wanted to give the Minister\u2014and I\u2019m sure she will have heard these stories as well\u2014this story from my local high school, who have vaping levels at epidemic levels and who are unable to combat the problem because they don\u2019t have any supports. They go to Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), who do a wonderful job in their lane, and ASH say to them, \u201CLook, it\u2019s difficult for us.\u201D\u2014and this was about a year ago, so they may have ramped it up a bit since then. But ASH say, \u201CLook, with vaping, we don\u2019t have enough statistics on it. We don\u2019t have enough interventions. We find it really difficult to go into the schools.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis is what the local principals are telling me, which is that ASH haven\u2019t been able to provide them with the solutions to get kids to kick the nicotine habit. They don\u2019t have any tools. They don\u2019t have any supports. They are, basically, saying to kids who are coming to them saying, \u201CYes, I was caught at school with my vape, but I am massively addicted because of the high level of nicotine in these products.\u201D\u2014and I can tell this committee that parents have got no idea of the level of nicotine that their children are ingesting when they smoke these vape products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThey have no idea of how much more nicotine is included in these products than there would be in a normal cigarette, and parents are being sold this view that it\u2019s healthy and it\u2019s fine and it\u2019s a healthy alternative to smoking, and this is being relayed to children as well. It\u2019s really important that under SOP 315, the support policies preventing the use of vape products is introduced so that we\u2019re giving schools more tools, more knowledge, and more help to get kids to kick the product but also giving more knowledge to parents and children that these are not safe products\u2014that these do harm your health; they\u2019re not cool\u2014and also giving them more supports around helping them to kick the habit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, the other problem that we\u2019ve got is that if you\u2019re a child walking to school, you\u2019ll pass many vape products on your way\u2014not just specialist vape stores but dairies and now, we\u2019ve heard today, pharmacies as well. Colourful products are right there in front of the store. It\u2019s like we\u2019ve never learnt our lesson from smoking in the first place and here we are again, and that\u2019s why SOP 312 is so very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister just talked about new section 20P in clause 13 in the bill, and she mentioned new section 20P(2)(c), so that\u2019s \u201Cany requirements in regulations have been met.\u201D So I guess my question to the Minister is: will the Director-General of Health have a direction about the proximity of vape stores to schools? At the moment in my electorate, if you\u2019re a student walking to school, you pass three or four dairies, three or four vape stores, and a pharmacy, who are all selling vape products. It\u2019s in their face when they go in the dairy to buy a drink or some food on the way to school\u2014it\u2019s right there. It\u2019s right in their face, and it\u2019s obviously now in the pharmacies, as well, and it\u2019s also in these special vapes stores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ELook, I support Shane Reti\u2019s SOP around the clustering of these and the amount and the proliferation and the fact that there are so many together, but I specifically want to ask the Minister what regulations will need to be met for the director-general to have a say on where these premises will be, and will that be in locations around schools and the clustering of them on school walking routes, because that is the problem at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThey are being sold to every single day as they walk past all of these schools. They\u2019ve got wrong information that it\u2019s some sort of healthy product that\u2019s a good alternative to smoking. It\u2019s packaged in such a way that it\u2019s attracting them. It smells nice, it looks good, and it\u2019s everywhere in their faces. These are two really good SOPs that, in my mind, will go some way to reducing that risk and provide schools with the tools that they need to reduce the number of students that they\u2019ve got that are vaping, but it will also provide information to parents that this is highly addictive\u2014much more than cigarettes\u2014and that it actually does have a number of health risks. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022baeb2471ccf34831bb4a4ab0e983dd4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baeb2471ccf34831bb4a4ab0e983dd4a\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 315, the Government will be voting against it. The measures contained in it are not required and reflect business-as-usual compliance activities that the Ministry of Health and others already do. I mentioned in my previous remarks the survey of youth vaping, and then the Director-General of Health also has a duty to enforce the Act and make sure that under-18s are not supplied with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680a72a62fed477490f8441698e39d28\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s that going? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cbb827489f4c12bcb890ab03111c63\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014vaping products\u2014well, we\u2019re here to discuss the bill\u2014but compliance activities are under way with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to the member\u2019s other question, I think the difference between the member\u2019s points and the author of the SOP\u2019s points perhaps just points to areas where further thought and policy work is required, because the member raises a concern I have heard frequently from communities about the proximity of vape stores to schools. The SOP, of course, deals with the proximity of vape stores to each other. These are two different issues, and clarity on what the policy goal we are trying to seek through it is required, particularly when there might be legal risk incurred from taking either move. So the reason for not supporting the vaping proximity SOP is because the powers to set that regulation are already there, and for the director-general to make decisions on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00228283d2c9172b46f093d5f4b98841599e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228283d2c9172b46f093d5f4b98841599e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. It\u2019s good to hear from all in the Chamber that there is an ongoing concern about the need for greater vaping regulation. I think it is really important to unpack, as we all have been doing throughout this debate on the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in the name of, particularly, Dr Shane Reti, but also in the Associate Minister of Health\u2019s responses, whether some of these SOPs do what they say on the tin. Because that is, of course, the core thing that we, as legislators, should really be trying to pull apart, to road test, and to make sure that we\u2019re actually doing our job here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, again, I just want to really pull this back to the fact that right now, inside new section 20P, inserted by clause 13, we have a requirement, under subsection (3) for the director-general to take into account the geographic location of retail premises, the population of that geographic area, and any other criteria that ends up being prescribed in regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve already spoken about with regard to SOP 312, I do think that there is some validity in having some explicit requirement to consider proximity of other retail premises to each other, as the Minister has made really clear, but I am quite challenged by some of the things that are laid out in the explanatory note for SOP 315, but then actually looking through the clauses themselves, as proposed, to see whether they will do what, again, the kind of rhetoric that we\u2019ve been hearing and debating today actually outlines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, there is kind of a bit of a difference between enforcement and monitoring, and, as the Minister has already outlined, business as usual is compliance monitoring. I think what would have beefed this up is actually the requirement for funding, for example, or for resourcing for that compliance monitoring. If we had that budgetary requirement inside of that SOP, then I might be of a different mind and the Greens may be of a different mind, because in lieu of that, we are kind of confronted with just another new clause which continues to outline what should already be being done, and, as the Minister has already said, is currently being done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also point to the contributions made by other members, particularly around some of the more colourful vapes, some of the disposable vapes, and some of the cheaper vapes. To that effect, I guess I\u2019m wondering if I could test the committee\u2019s interest in, perhaps, supporting an SOP that we could all draft on the fly to get rid of disposable vapes, because they, of course, tend to be precisely those which are cheaper, which are easier to access, which are colourful, and, therefore, more attractive to younger people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOn that point around attractiveness to younger people, in particular, I think it is really important, in reference to some contributions made by my learned colleague Erica Stanford, to state that it is currently illegal to provide or to sell vaping products to under-18s. That is the baseline law. It is illegal to do that and it has been illegal to do that, actually only since we went about introducing new regulation legislation last term. Prior to that, again, as I said on Tuesday night as we were debating the second reading of this bill, it was entirely self-regulated, and that is perhaps why we\u2019ve seen such a problem with the proliferation of these vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAll of that said, I think it really boils down to the reality that all of us can accept the health advice that a substance or the way in which we administer a substance can cause harm. The next step from that has to be how do we, as, kind of, responsible regulators, in keeping with the evidence, and talking to the experts that are out there, take a public health approach to think about the entire ramifications of whatever legislative response we may be putting in place. For example, we know that criminal prohibition of substances pushes them underground. We had a very similar experience with knee-jerk responses with the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill, which pushed substances that were temporarily licensed underground, and, as a result, we saw immense harm in the form of at least 50 New Zealanders consuming, particularly, synthetic cannabinoids, and dying as a result of consuming those substances which did not go away, which did not get rid of the addiction, but only pushed them to get that supply underground, because the demand did not go away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAfter we take that kind of public health approach and thinking about the whole sociological environment, it\u2019s then a matter of how we legislate and regulate effectively to get those outcomes that we\u2019ve said that we want to get per the public health, which, obviously, builds on the medical reality. To that effect, again, I think that we are getting the balance largely right in this legislation, but I am hearing that there is a greater need to focus on vaping. I\u2019m hearing from the Minister that there is also a focus to that effect, but, again, I just say, particularly, in response to the ideas that have been put forward by Dr Reti, that we really do, and the Greens appreciate some of the thinking that\u2019s gone into it, but we do hold some concerns that these, as they\u2019ve been drafted, do not do what they say on the tin. I want to kind of say that I\u2019m hearing across the committee that we\u2019re all largely in agreement, and if we want to, we can draft that SOP on banning disposable vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3732cd3509b4ddfa88a6c18e7350cb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3732cd3509b4ddfa88a6c18e7350cb2\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to put a couple of questions to the Minister in the chair, Ayesha Verrall. But before I do, I note the Supplementary Order Paper 313 in her name, which seeks to amend clause 15A, which I think ties in quite nicely with one of the issues that the Health Committee grappled with in terms of the internet connectivity to a particular site rather than it being a little bit ambiguous. So that seems like a sensible suggestion that the Minister has put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge that the Minister has given similar responses to what appear to be the same questions that have been put to her. I would, however, like her to reflect on new section 20M, inserted by clause 13, and it relates to the retail premises. One of the changes in the bill is one where it moves the specified number in terms of the limit from regulation through to being specified specifically in the legislation. So I was interested in whether the Minister was comfortable with that particular change, given that submitters had referred to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is just the level of cap being set at 600 whereas the regulatory impact statement actually went a little bit more conservatively around that and went at a lower level, from what I understand\u2014so, seeking a lower threshold. So I really, in terms of perhaps when the Minister takes her call to answer the next batch of questions\u2014if she could just reflect perhaps on the level of comfort around those changes in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf5423a3877498e9eb4330a97a9777f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf5423a3877498e9eb4330a97a9777f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, a very quick contribution. One is to ask the Minister\u2019s reconsideration around the proximity argument around vaping stores. I do appreciate the distinction that she\u2019s making, but what I think unites it all is what I would term as \u201Cubiquity\u201D, and Dr Reti and others have well talked about it and she knows\u2014the Minister, that is\u2014herself just the sheer ubiquity of these stores now. I think, in my own electorate in T\u0101maki, of the number of little dairies which are dividing off spaces to, basically, turn them into vaping stores\u2014it is ubiquitous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe reason why I think we need to support Supplementary Order Paper 315 in particular is that we cannot simply rely on the advice coming out of the Ministry of Health\u2014and that\u2019s no disrespect to the individual advisers, but I personally feel we need to have it quite explicitly written into legislation. The reason I say that, Minister, is I was chair of the Health Committee when vaping was coming on board. There was a great push at the time that this was going to be the replacement for cigarettes and nicotine in particular, and a number of us on that committee, myself included, were saying, \u201CWell, what is the evidence around the use of vaping? What is the harm here, as laymen or laypeople?\u201D There was a concern that this was going to become ubiquitous, this was going to become the new fad, and we were told there\u2019s no evidence. Now, at one level, that\u2019s true because it was new, but at another sign\u2014and, again, it\u2019s hard for me to phrase this without trying to throw aspersions at the ministry, that does a good job, but, in effect, they said, \u201CNo, this should be OK.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s demonstrably not OK\u2014it\u2019s demonstrably not OK. This has become the \u201Ccool thing\u201D, for want of a pretty old phrase, for young people to use it everywhere. Parents in my electorate are almost literally pulling their hair out. There was a public meeting recently where hundreds of parents turned up to hear about the harms of vaping, from the experts but, obviously, reflecting what they\u2019re seeing in their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think the reason we need to support the likes of Supplementary Order Papers 315 and 312 is that some of the suggestions at the moment to put detectors into schools and so forth are just not going to work. As principals and parents have pointed out to me, as soon as the alarm goes off, the vapes are hidden in a whole range of places. It\u2019s just not helpful. We need to be getting in first and foremost on that educative front. Secondly, we need to address it by reducing that\u2014I\u2019m sorry to keep using the word, Minister, but I think it\u2019s critical to the argument and the question I\u2019m trying to put to you: it is just so ubiquitous we have to pull it back, and a part of that is, I think, the ministry accepting, I would suggest, and others, myself included\u2014actually, not myself included, I think for others who said, \u201CThis will be fine. This is just a great anti-tobacco smoking product; all else will be fine.\u201D Well, it\u2019s turned out to be demonstrably the opposite, and particularly parents in my electorate, what I\u2019m hearing, and, I\u2019m sure, all MPs, they\u2019re crying out for some assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo if proximity is based on schools or proximity\u2019s based on just how frequent businesses around\u2014I don\u2019t, in some ways, particularly care; we have to pull this back. So the two questions\u2014well, actually, the last observation is, ultimately, you can take nicotine out. Well, some will make the argument that there\u2019s no nicotine in vapes. Well, that\u2019s true until you get some liquid nicotine and just mix it in. That\u2019s pretty simple and easy to do. So we\u2019ve got wider, wider problems here, which then feed back into our smoke-free approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI suppose that the fundamental question is: can she see, with the erroneous advice, if you will, given to us\u2014granted, five, six years ago\u2014there is a need to move into very strict primary legislation for what the ministry must do, so that there\u2019s no wiggle room or mistakes. And, secondly, and I think I do know the answer: does she appreciate the urgency by which we need to address this growing\u2014I don\u2019t want to use the word \u201Cpandemic\u201D; we\u2019ve used it far too much, but, you know, there is an urgency here. It\u2019s only my opinion, Minister, but the window\u2019s closing for us to be able to nip this in the bud, which is probably a very bad cannabis pun or something, I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002252f9fcb07562462aabe55e39eadc34c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252f9fcb07562462aabe55e39eadc34c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It\u2019s good to hear the comments of concern around vaping, from across the committee. I\u2019m going to keep my comments with respect to the bill, but I am very happy to talk in other fora about education that the Ministry of Health has under way on vaping and its monitoring and compliance work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to advice on vaping, I think two things. One, it is true, and advice has been correct\u2014and we\u2019ve heard statements to this effect in the Chamber today\u2014that vaping is less harmful than tobacco, but there have not been long-term studies because there has not been long-term experience with vapes. None the less, the fact that vaping is addictive and that that changes the behaviour of young people in terms of seeking it out\u2014we\u2019ve heard from school principal that they\u2019re concerned about the behaviour of children and their ability to concentrate in class because of addiction. So I think that is the basis on which we can continue to work to address vaping-related harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI want to come to Mr Utikere\u2019s comments about section 20M. Indeed, that\u2019s correct that that was the recommendation of the Health Committee\u2014as he would know, he chaired the select committee\u2014which was to reduce the retail reduction number which was initially proposed. The bill as originally drafted said that that should be done by regulation. This is now in the primary legislation as 600. That 600 number is one that, I think, reflects the intent when the bill was drafted, but I believe some of the modelling supported an even lower figure than 600. I think one of the things in moving the number into primary legislation is that it\u2019s clearly less flexible, it\u2019s a bigger deal to go back and fix it once it\u2019s in primary legislation. So the number of 600 being in there reflects the fact that one wouldn\u2019t want to overshoot and make it overly onerous, so that\u2019s why the 600 has been moved into primary legislation. Indeed, I am comfortable with the committee\u2019s recommendation on that. That is why it\u2019s reflected in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed5f5c86af164a738be622cc25bd23e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed5f5c86af164a738be622cc25bd23e4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to take Dr Shane Reti, but I warn him that I will have to interrupt his speech, if he\u2019s still speaking, to report progress at 5 minutes to 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228c43de78f8fc4e438deb642b01cbd4d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c43de78f8fc4e438deb642b01cbd4d9\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sure. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to address\u2014the Minister has said that Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 315 is unnecessary because it is primarily just part of the ordinary business for the ministry. The simple response is: how\u2019s that going for us? Clearly, not doing so well. And to address what my colleague was saying around the SOP not specifically mentioning funding, my intention was for it to be inherent that, of course, there would need to be funding and resources to support the increased monitoring. But I take her point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ECan I point for the first time to the Minister\u2019s SOP 313, which came into the Order Paper\u2014gosh, the ink was still drying on the second reading. On the website it\u2019s declared \u201CProposed amendments\u201D, and I ask her to talk to that\u2014why she felt this wasn\u2019t well covered in the Health Committee, the changes that are there in SOP 313; particularly the commentary around the change to commencement for herbal cigarettes\u2014where did that come from? I don\u2019t recall deep discussions in select committee, yet, suddenly, mysteriously, 24 to 48 hours after we\u2019ve just had the second reading, it is suddenly in her SOP 313. So can she talk to that, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224befa542c2cd466d99a8f3645df5a6f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224befa542c2cd466d99a8f3645df5a6f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Matt Doocey\u2014two minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022a59dcc4e2c324ab4803cfa1ceaf146cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a59dcc4e2c324ab4803cfa1ceaf146cb\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, that\u2019s a great choice. Thank you very much. Look, I want to talk to Dr Shane Reti\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 314. Once again, you\u2019ve got a hard-working Opposition MP who\u2019s doing all the heavy lifting around proposed legislation. You know, it just beggars belief when we\u2019ve just got a bloated bureaucracy of armies of officials that couldn\u2019t write the succinct drafting that Dr Shane Reti has. So when you look at SOP 314, it\u2019s looking at what we do first on that next step for Smokefree 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ENow, in the Government\u2019s view, they want to reduce the number of tobacco suppliers through dairies from 6,000 to 600 first. The reality is, with this Government\u2019s soft on crime approach, there\u2019s dairies closing down every day without this legislation because they just do not feel safe in their workplaces, and that\u2019s an absolute blight on this current Government. But I would like to hear from the Minister why she would not look at and have interest in Dr Shane Reti\u2019s proposal in SOP 314, because I would argue it\u2019s actually a very pragmatic way forward. If we can look at reducing nicotine in cigarettes and use that as the heavy lifting of this tool to move forward for Smokefree 2025, then why would we not look at that for a period that Dr Shane Reti says, for a number of months, and then, after that, have a review around the implementation? Dr Shane Reti has very clearly said if denicotisation does not work, then we would pragmatically look at the reduction of outlets for tobacco sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut, I think, at a time when there is a lot of pressure on our dairy outlets and our small retailers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1515d63a0a4642aa5e6b5d3ac4674a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for me to for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2e3633d0c934a169ff5aa87f864059d\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276b7f7a77cd0411aa646d76bed0835dd\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b329219d1ba741c887bcf4c7c5771758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b329219d1ba741c887bcf4c7c5771758\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Electoral Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. The committee has also considered the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill and reports no progress\u2014hang on; yes. I move that the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209b34afad8134e3e8f5a8fc99afad32c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, the question\u2014sorry, did we get two bills? There should be three altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca82857191844078453fb40a89952cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Mr Speaker and to the House. I will go back. The committee has considered the Electoral Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. The committee has also considered the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Bill and reports progress. The committee has also considered the Natural Hazards Insurance Bill and reports no progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224b454655f4ee445bb4eae3eeab1ae1ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b454655f4ee445bb4eae3eeab1ae1ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.58 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202212071b1fc5a2439447bb964e98e2b62e6b1a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"