"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247a56b13fb524f75a795510fe2796e4b\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 9 MARCH 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d775088d170440eb94f8ef2e16d729d8\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 9 MARCH 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3a251adedc14fc586c8847951f121f0\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225304b00d24264f8abf60b098ccdd4dcb\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00227d4646cbdfe34c8e8d7919949f3af223\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d4646cbdfe34c8e8d7919949f3af223\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266b3f260c1014e4cbfce12bf27d33170\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022851f2c78e707490aa8ada328b24546db\u0022\u003EMinisterial Responsibility\u2014Clarification\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022872fdb58a9e2413eac5e1f3548c2f3e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022872fdb58a9e2413eac5e1f3548c2f3e1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members have raised with me the responsibility of new Ministers for their portfolios prior to the time they were appointed to the portfolios. I wish to draw members\u2019 attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 163/4-5. Speaker Smith ruled on this matter when a Minister was asked about a decision that occurred in his portfolio before he became a Minister. Dr Smith ruled that \u201CJust because a Minister may not have been present at the time does not relieve them of being answerable for what took place.\u201D Speaker Carter ruled in 2016 that questions relate to a portfolio and not to an individual person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EMinisters are answerable for the portfolio they currently hold and for activities in the portfolio, even before they were appointed to it. Of course, this responsibility does not go back in time indefinitely. Ministers are not responsible for the activities of a previous administration. \u201CThe defeat of a Government in an election marks the end of one administration and the commencement of another.\u201D\u2014Speaker\u2019s ruling 164/7. So current Ministers are answerable to the House for decisions taken in their portfolios since the commencement of the Labour-led Government in 2017. They are only answerable for activities prior to that time if they have had to take some action in respect of them during the current administration\u2014Speaker\u2019s ruling 167/3. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afa4bfc628df4074b69bda6f6651d81e\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022166d867b8ee149f8ab59ed4dd6cb47fa\u0022\u003EHouse Bells\u2014Failure to Ring\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002291ad6b1db15547b082c19f2582372de5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291ad6b1db15547b082c19f2582372de5\u0022\u003ETTANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you Mr Speaker. I think members will be aware that the bells which usually ring to allow members to make their way to the House did not occur this afternoon. In light of that, I wonder whether there were other provisions that had been put in place to ensure that members\u2014even though most members should know that the House sits at 2 p.m.\u2014whether there are any other mitigation aspects that have been put in place to address that concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a16e31a5560945bdad08d30d8bc87f4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a16e31a5560945bdad08d30d8bc87f4f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Office of the Clerk only found out at the time that they didn\u2019t ring, and myself also, so we will have to come back to the House and find out what has gone wrong. Apparently, this has not happened in anyone\u2019s memory so there\u2019s very little we can do right now, but I see the number of members in the House right now is similar to a usual Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d7fa003f12f4a48967be52405c4044f\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u2014Ministerial Responsibility, Clarification\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0a36672cfac4e96b0142991473fa4f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0a36672cfac4e96b0142991473fa4f3\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Just in relation to the ruling that you just gave about when an administration started and finished, I just wanted to check my understanding of it, because you did say, in one of those rulings, that an administration was essential between elections, but then, later, you said that current Ministers would be responsible for things not just from the last election but actually from the election before, which\u2014from the 2017 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo is it per Parliament or is it essentially between a change between, say, a National-led Government to a Labour-led Government? Because that would mean the difference between three years, six years, or nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8fe41e90b9245459465e9f4d8d997f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8fe41e90b9245459465e9f4d8d997f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, as I mentioned in the ruling, current Ministers are responsible for actions taken since 2017, at the beginning of the 52nd Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002225fc46e1c97f427c8ea207bff73a27a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225fc46e1c97f427c8ea207bff73a27a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Minister of Statistics):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I just wonder if we could clarify a little further on that, where the particular portfolio has changed from one party to another even though there has been no change of administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5cdda35a1a48f8a90f216fa10fa312\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What? How would that work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022887dd1cf6c2e426783eeb1efc2b64117\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s why I\u2019m asking for the clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb851c588dd4a1d857009669992ebf3\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I could come up with a whole pile of hypotheticals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6d80ac457554c62a4ff8fcd2c9606dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6d80ac457554c62a4ff8fcd2c9606dd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Two things: points of order\u2014speaking to them are held in silence, and I\u2019m on my feet, so I really would like to answer the point of order. That doesn\u2019t matter. As Speaker Carter said, you\u2019re responsible for the portfolio and what happens in that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eac7367fd56e4d6ca02ddd62f40b8c64\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bb71390d4114b5998a3fcaccbbe25f8\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022385cf4e202dd4eee843eaa8598a54668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022385cf4e202dd4eee843eaa8598a54668\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the House will consider urgent legislation relating to the cyclone recovery. The Business Committee will discuss how the bill will progress through its stages. Other legislation to be considered will include the committee stages of the Criminal Activity Intervention Legislation Bill, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Amendment Bill, and the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2022-23, Platform Economy, and Remedial Matters) Bill (No 2). There will also be a debate on the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement on Wednesday, which will also be the first members\u2019 day of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022afea1e32115d4ed996ae40e2eca6f06d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afea1e32115d4ed996ae40e2eca6f06d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Leader of the House for the update, and I\u2019m very pleased to note that the first members\u2019 day for 2023 will be next Wednesday. By my calculations, given that there had been a members\u2019 day missed at the end of last year, which was intended to be caught up through extended hours in February, we\u2019re now two members\u2019 days behind, even with next week\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ECan he confirm that it\u2019s the Government\u2019s intention to ensure that those two members\u2019 days are caught up in the normal programme, without extended hours? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc06325514db479ba786dcc083ab5ea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc06325514db479ba786dcc083ab5ea5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E It is certainly the intention of the Government that those members\u2019 days are caught up. The matter of whether extended sitting hours will be used for that is something the Business Committee may discuss in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00224e111a9320784d89b939860e97f57cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e111a9320784d89b939860e97f57cc1\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for that clarification. I just note that extended hours are not as long as a full members\u2019 day, so that\u2019s an issue to be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022991ac8c76bc444c892ae5bc1d7c0f7c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991ac8c76bc444c892ae5bc1d7c0f7c8\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you to the Leader of the House. I just wanted to ask that having almost managed to get through it in the rush before Christmas, I notice that the Organic Products Bill has dropped to No. 13 on the Order Paper, and I just was wondering what his time frame is for the introduction of the final parts of that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022691921d8a8314f099fe820b768f681c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022691921d8a8314f099fe820b768f681c5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, I think on this occasion, 13 is not an unlucky number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa2263c3e3564b8f9fdf0a6e78a20c46\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b974567ff8b4aa29b6b2dc9864d3a3b\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae640bc3baac42b89ff1498c5fa2b206\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae640bc3baac42b89ff1498c5fa2b206\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. No papers have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022f279f6417d534d31a47e564ebbc0ba3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f279f6417d534d31a47e564ebbc0ba3e\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Governance and Administration Committee on the 2021-22 annual review of the Office of the Ombudsman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022870f9295e5f84d3d8d24b06bc9eb500e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022870f9295e5f84d3d8d24b06bc9eb500e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aad205787335457f87fc71c844c0bd29\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf6111d6c93b45deb393998b7e2e4b3b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9f73953576b445387986ee8777accb2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u002218327215c79842bb99194b52f3c22b03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218327215c79842bb99194b52f3c22b03\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022df1255bf112c4232a0e576efd53feb23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df1255bf112c4232a0e576efd53feb23\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the question. The resilience of the economy has been reflected in the Crown accounts. For the seven months to the end of January, the operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) recorded a deficit of $2.4 billion. This was close to the forecast at December\u2019s Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update and $5.6 billion lower than for the same period a year ago. The Government\u2019s sound management of our finances shows that we are well placed to respond to the cost of living pressures and the impact of Cyclone Gabrielle and the flooding in January.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a6165f9b064e4a82b6d7459f4eb534\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What else did the report say about the impact of the economy on the Government\u2019s books?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0bf457c8104bd3bfce4572ecceb93f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Core Crown tax revenue was $430 million, or 0.7 percent, below forecast, at $64.7 billion. This was mainly due to lower-than-forecast GST returns. Core Crown expenses were $164 million, or 0.2 percent, below forecasts, at $71.7 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c0d26f3cbb4f04a87c7c71204ebb6b\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What did the report say about the Government\u2019s debt position and its impact on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b5523968f44a17945d8daa2a0289a4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Net debt stood at 18.9 percent of GDP, below the forecast of 19.8 percent of GDP, mainly due to market conditions affecting the financial portfolio of entities such as the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. Our debt levels are among the lowest in the OECD and well below the Government\u2019s debt ceiling of 30 percent of GDP. This ensures we are well positioned to handle the impacts of Cyclone Gabrielle and future economic shocks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218f3c926cd5c4528b25193cb0eb80001\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6f3b4481ee4eab9f5e9f9d92bedd93\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The International Monetary Fund\u2019s World Economic Outlook updates projects that global growth will slow from 3.4 percent in 2022 to 2.9 percent in 2023 and 3.1 percent in 2024. These are well below the historic averages for global growth. New Zealand is well positioned to face these global challenges and the recent extreme weather events with a solid balance sheet, near-record low unemployment, growing exports, rising tourist numbers, and an increasing number of overseas workers arriving to fill vacancies. The Government will continue to take a balanced and responsible approach in managing our finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284741b71aeb64c279bdb1a2e3b22ec65\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022263b4e7053b447c3ad838538b63f0ecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022263b4e7053b447c3ad838538b63f0ecf\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: Does she expect that building and construction costs will continue to increase this year beyond the 10.4 percent seen in 2022, and does she expect the supply of building and construction materials will be able to meet the demand for new buildings and repairs following recent extreme weather events?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00225624d946c8eb4e429ad302ad0a21d6da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225624d946c8eb4e429ad302ad0a21d6da\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Defence) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: It\u2019s well known that there have been cost increases over the past couple of years due to supply chain constraints relating largely to COVID. While it is too early to speculate on the impact recent extreme weather events will have on prices and supply of materials, I continue to monitor the situation closely. Since January, we\u2019ve been engaging with the sector to assess supply chain constraints following extreme weather events, to identify where there may be blockages and what needs to be done. My officials continue to engage with the Construction Sector Accord, building merchants, and the Critical Materials Taskforce to ensure we\u2019re responding to any immediate material shortages. I\u2019m also a member of the newly established Cabinet Extreme Weather Recovery Committee, which has been set up to coordinate and direct the Government\u2019s response to recent weather events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aed0011aa4dd45c4837ffe46fd3726a8\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It wasn\u2019t clear that the question was addressed about whether the Minister expected that the costs would increase. We heard about costs due to COVID, but not whether they\u2019ll increase this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac604722c3974bea81e6459a39b84abf\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, my answer said, while it is too early to speculate on the impact recent extreme weather events will have, I continue to monitor the situation closely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09048965f8d4e56a9921b224e6762a6\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that some building merchants have already contacted their clients noting supplier price increases of up to 10.5 percent for Pink Batts, 16.5 percent for cement board, and 16 percent for framing connectors and brackets by the end of April this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ec048ace9f4d1f8b261cbebd291347\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, the advice I\u2019ve had from officials is they have not yet seen any material price increases as a result of the extreme weather events, and they keep the matter under close monitoring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59ec9a2eed2462ab601365230e93850\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government progressing with new H1 building standards, which will add an estimated $15,000 of additional costs on to a new residential build when a report from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment on the new standards noted that \u201Cconsumers are already under financial pressure in light of cost of living increases\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bed3793bf384b5983dfdb5c1c229154\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, our country\u2019s history is littered with times when we relaxed standards or abandoned standards altogether, and the consequence of that in the building sector was low-quality buildings. We don\u2019t intend to repeat that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba051c94c044d40ac887e2b1fe07ab9\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Critical Materials Taskforce identified any equivalent materials that could be made available in New Zealand to mitigate any artificial shortages in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle, excluding plaster board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022963bdba7fc6545c188c3c766c5440e4a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, the role of the Critical Materials Taskforce is to monitor the availability of materials to support our construction activity, both in relation to responding to the extreme weather events we\u2019ve had recently and just to continue the programme of work that this Government has promoted and encouraged to increase housing supply. They don\u2019t deal in particular policy areas; that is a matter for the relevant ministry, and they keep abreast of what the sector needs from time to time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277484d508caf47c69832af4d592a3119\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8efdcba5d6940448ac0ebbeb2372df9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8efdcba5d6940448ac0ebbeb2372df9\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcement has she made regarding pay increases for nurses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002238d01426609b4b48ba891988870c25a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d01426609b4b48ba891988870c25a7\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced a historic $540 million bump in pay for nurses. Backdated interim payments have now been completed across the Auckland region, and nurses throughout the country have received a much deserved increase. Although how much extra each nurse has received depends on their current rates, the increases range from 4.5 percent to 17 percent, but a large proportion of registered nurses are receiving an increase in base pay of around $12,000. This Government backs our nurses and has delivered a significant pay increase for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b67733dbadf421ca6df94867919e0ed\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for a nurse just starting out in the profession, and how has that changed since 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022032a1a5957e74c55bca19450dab42422\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Newly qualified nurses in 2017 started work on $49,449 a year before overtime and allowances. This figure is now $66,570 a year. That is a considerable increase for our workforce, overwhelmingly female, that has traditionally been undervalued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dea3ece8ef2450fb7901c2f432d1b35\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What does the payment mean for nurses represented by the New Zealand Nurses Organisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e77620735584692b52bb104a8168162\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Although further litigation has arisen, it was sensible that the Employment Relations Authority allowed Te Whatu Ora the ability to make interim pay equity payments while still awaiting a final result. This means nurses are able to have that money in their pockets now. I continue to urge parties to resolve the outstanding issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d722a222644e4875b3fe08d40a859c76\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How do these interim payments deliver on the Government\u2019s commitment to pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974c7f098e5747f791dfc0a705970086\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: What this payment does is ensure that nurses are getting more money in their pockets while they are feeling the pinch of the cost of living. While there is still more work to do in negotiating further on pay equity, this is an important step in showing our Government\u2019s commitment to valuing nurses and paying a female-dominated workforce what they\u2019re worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f97e7f42462640f98719a3990d7fa100\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022295f25b8264e4685b1d2317c77e8cd3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022295f25b8264e4685b1d2317c77e8cd3d\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: When does he anticipate the economic conditions will be right for the introduction of an income insurance scheme, and what ongoing work, if any, is being done to develop such a scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6ae683d94c14dd8a365fb9141119cb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6ae683d94c14dd8a365fb9141119cb5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E To the member\u2019s first question, we\u2019ve been clear that there is a gap in looking after New Zealanders who lose their job through no fault of their own, but we would need to see a significant improvement in economic conditions before it is further advanced. While it\u2019s not possible to put a date to that, we would need to see several matters resolved or improved, including a return to surplus and cost of living pressures significantly eased. To the second question, we have already announced that the New Zealand income insurance scheme will not proceed in its current form and that we have delayed the planned legislation and wound down implementation activity. As the Prime Minister indicated at the time of the announcement of this, there would be ongoing policy work to explore the best ways to address inequities in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565a77ea1a09463cab47ca6c7d0a5e68\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are still employed either directly or via consultancies or contractors to work on the matters just raised by the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c321165bcd4517aa4c6d0ba368efee\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That work is being undertaken at the moment. I\u2019m advised, and, indeed, written questions and answers have advised members of the Opposition, that the agencies expect that a considerable proportion of the funding that has been set aside will be returned but that a small team will continue this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759053ab234d40c385d7d2c00f86aee0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was quite precise in asking for a number and there was no address of the request for a number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ccf901a33c4a5da333c64aa0f5decc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, that wasn\u2019t the question that was put on notice, and I think the member will be well aware that matters relating to staffing within ACC would probably be best addressed to the Minister for ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510329ffbe9a4121beeabf47d81cc9a0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll make a ruling on the point of order: the question was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcfbcffc012641d3b6277648227a725d\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the Government\u2019s recent Cabinet paper on income insurance concluded that such schemes can increase unemployment, and, if so, will he keep pursuing this policy even if he is told it will mean fewer Kiwis in work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca4e65c40eb4d509448cf26ca357f04\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is one of the criticisms of social insurance schemes around the world. The actual facts of the matter don\u2019t tend to bear that out around the world. What I can guarantee for the member is that, at this time, the implementation of an income insurance scheme has been paused, but there is ongoing work to see how we can fill the gap in our social security scheme that she seems to care so little about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b20b2c8449c4babaa1371eb4947ffd9\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: If the work, as he has claimed, has been paused, why is it that there are still people working on it being paid for by New Zealand taxpayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ad265e77ca4ac29fda1fd383b6a072\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I noted, the pausing is about the legislation and the implementation of the scheme. It seems that the member is struggling a little bit on the difference between something being cancelled and something being paused, so I\u2019ll try and put it in terms that she will understand. Her leadership ambitions have not been cancelled; they\u2019ve just been paused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bc82f7693444b3b7a2c0d09ed3e4f0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment concluded that a proposed income insurance scheme would place additional financial stress on some families, especially but not only on low-income families, meaning that many low-income workers would struggle to meet the cost of the proposed new levy; and why, with that advice, is it just on pause and hasn\u2019t been killed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f7add31e0243f5b5d230831a941913\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, it is the job of Government agencies to provide the pros and cons of any given policy. In terms of the way in which the Government views this, New Zealanders who lose their job through no fault of their own\u2014sometimes because they might have got cancer or sometimes because they\u2019ve been made redundant\u2014deserve at least the consideration that a Government might think about how we can support them. Now is not the right time to do that because of the economic conditions that we are in, and that is the reason why the implementation of the scheme has been paused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356ce16b7a704b9f9ed381babb6bcd3c\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that he was also advised that his proposed scheme would impose massive costs on New Zealand small business, with the extra tax costing a typical small business $13,617 more a year; and what is it that makes him think there will ever be a time when New Zealand small businesses will welcome that cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227113d55b1a5045bf87df029b7f921fa2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the latter part of that question, the member might want to recall that this proposal in fact came forward to the Government from Business New Zealand and the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions in a joint approach to the Government. That is because, among other things, social insurance schemes around the world, including the one that we had been working on, are designed to support the ability of businesses to find workers\u2014workers who can be retrained, workers who can quickly move from one business to another. The Business New Zealand organisation might like to answer the question for the member about how they feel about that. We understand that there\u2019s a variety of needs for small businesses\u2014one of them is access to staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235eda64f14b44f14b2a58a41afb18819\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government keeping this fatally flawed policy in zombie mode, when no matter the economic conditions, he knows it will drive up unemployment, cost a fortune, and take yet more hard-earned money away from working Kiwis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920d1bbdcca04539a88f3b5ecee25914\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Apart from all the various assertions that were included in that question, the member might want to reflect on the number of countries around the world who have social insurance schemes. In fact, within the OECD there\u2019s only a very small handful of countries who don\u2019t have some form of social insurance scheme. We continue to believe that there are gaps in our social security framework, and we will continue to look for ways that we can fill those when economic conditions are right. When it comes to the member\u2019s concern for low and middle income families that she\u2019s discovered today, I would invite her to reflect on her failure to support lifts to the minimum wage, and her failure to support increases in benefits, increases in the family tax credit, and increases to the Best Start payment\u2014all of the initiatives proposed by this Government which help low and middle income families, which the National Party oppose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc2cef3712b545c2b7c4b86c512c6723\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a series of documents. I\u2019ve checked\u2014they\u2019re not publicly available; they\u2019ve only been released to National under the Official Information Act. They include verification of claims I\u2019ve made in the House, including, also, that the proposed unemployment insurance scheme would also place additional burdens on the health system, likely causing longer wait times for GPs and operations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7d635e40a54a838077f82d656f979d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection to that? There is none. It may be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a339ed6b46244d9b0e4688365321457\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u00222e71b6836a87494d83247c7b02ebef29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e71b6836a87494d83247c7b02ebef29\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What support has the Government given to Vanuatu following Cyclone Judy and Cyclone Kevin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022f81a22fbd7c34eeaabdb324bb40c2396\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f81a22fbd7c34eeaabdb324bb40c2396\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E In response to requests from Vanuatu, we deployed a C-130 aircraft on Sunday, carrying relief supplies and a team of seven personnel from the New Zealand Defence Force, Fire and Emergency New Zealand, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, to help with damage assessments and inform a necessary response. The second C-130 flight left Whenuapai on Tuesday with further urgently needed relief supplies in the form of shelter tool kits, mother and infant kits, family hygiene kits, and agricultural kits. A third flight is due to leave today. In addition to relief supplies, it will also carry personnel and communications equipment from the New Zealand Red Cross. New Zealand has also made available $150,000 to rapidly support Vanuatu\u2019s response, and that will be delivered through the New Zealand High Commission in Port Vila. We are also supporting NGO partner Adventist Development and Relief Agency to release humanitarian supplies that have been funded by our Government to the value of $340,000. We\u2019re working closely with the Government of Vanuatu and our FRANZ humanitarian partners\u2014Australia and France\u2014to coordinate support. Any New Zealand assistance will not draw resources away from the Government\u2019s domestic response efforts to Cyclone Gabrielle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1f900a38ff4c4891d21454cc2f2fd5\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: What information will Aotearoa New Zealand consider to assess its next contribution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994287b26f6c486b89b40b71e38c82a7\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll consider the needs assessment based on aerial and on-the-ground assessments of the personnel that we have sent alongside Australia and France, and then we will consider the requests of the Government of Vanuatu, coordinate our efforts with Australia and France, and then respond accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b9d59fc027147e9ab29ec263542bf24\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: What coordination is currently in place to ensure that relief efforts and a recovery response is not duplicated, as well as coordinated and aligned to other international partners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022164cf21b523642c2a4d45c7e65b58127\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: All relief activity is coordinated through the Vanuatu National Disaster Management Office (VNDMO). The New Zealand High Commission in Vanuatu has a longstanding relationship with the VNDMO. FRANZ partners are coordinating closely on the ground and between capitals. Daily calls and meetings ensure the most efficient use of military and civilian assets, appropriate provision of supplies, and close coordination with the Government of Vanuatu. The FRANZ partnership has operated for over 13 years, and we continue to coordinate our activities like that for Vanuatu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ea625ee5e9249c0aef76f7cdafc4b49\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: Given the likelihood of more regular significant weather events and storms impacting on livelihoods in places such as Vanuatu and the Pacific, what steps is Aotearoa New Zealand taking to support the resilience of the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f44ea9b4e35431faccdbfdd0dbcbf31\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: In October 2021, Aotearoa New Zealand announced its international climate finance commitment of $1.3 billion for the 2022-25 period. At least 50 percent of the commitment will support Pacific Island countries, and at least 50 percent will target adaptation and building resilience to the impacts of climate change. The International Climate Finance Strategy, Tuia te Waka a Kiwa, will guide the delivery of this commitment. Initiatives supported with this finance include early warning systems, disaster insurance, and efforts to improve water and food security in the face of climate change. New Zealand is supporting national disaster management officers and other first responders to strengthen their disaster preparedness and response capabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222749992dbbc341af9e0246b3daddacd4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00220c5a756400244abc9b5d9ce0de3fa0dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c5a756400244abc9b5d9ce0de3fa0dc\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Are the current shorter stays in emergency department performance metrics published on the Health New Zealand website accurate, and what were the figures for Northland in November 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b05b5e0020e3419dbecd4d34c065a544\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b05b5e0020e3419dbecd4d34c065a544\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E This morning, I was made aware of incorrect data on the Te Whatu Ora website for November and December 2022. On receipt of this information, I called Te Whatu Ora officials into my office this morning for an explanation, where they advised me of a publication error in their data. Te Whatu Ora apologised to me for this mistake, with an assurance that the underlying data collection, collation, and assessment is robust, and that its pre-publication assurance processes will be strengthened. Officials have informed me that the updated report will be on their website tomorrow. In regards to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I am advised that the current short stay emergency department performance metric in Northland District in November 2022 was 78.7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f42a98163d6470097d4446ac8c37025\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why, earlier this week, did she use inaccurate data to say that there was a large improvement in emergency department (ED) wait times in Northland when there was not; and had she even seen the data when she made that comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0b8f477b6a84ef08693941a5753bda5\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I did not make that comment, and media have updated their reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbc204c203149739fd69bf1a120cc16\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to Health New Zealand medical director Pete Watson, who stated earlier today that the figures were \u201Cas accurate as we\u2019ve got them at the moment\u201D but \u201Cclearly [are] not accurate\u201D; and has every single performance measure, including cancer and surgical wait times, been removed from the Health New Zealand website today because of concerns that all of it is inaccurate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852b67d33d234dce9f3a5253ef63b50c\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of those comments, and no. As I said in my primary answer, the issue with the short stay emergency department target is that there was an error in the publication of the data, and that the underlying data used by decision makers in the districts, at the national level, and by the board, was accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200daa66695684c3097e67f8bd34b6776\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Then why have all of the performance metrics been taken down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b54dbeea8943d1b1242a8bd8f974d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have sought Te Whatu Ora to provide an assurance that their underlying quality-assurance processes are correct. They need to go through that process. They have assured me that they will have the updated shorter stay in emergency department figures available by the end of the day tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f08d760ec26d49eba7e1c894052038a9\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is she deliberately inflating the figures to obscure deteriorating ED wait times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e07b9cefd794bb6966fc6360d5c37f8\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. While I know you adopt a fairly flexible approach with questions, that is calling in to question the character of a member and is outside of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fdaa4b1a5174939bd6e86dc36b702aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s not the best way to phrase it. One, a reasonable New Zealander would take that as meaning that the Minister\u2019s making it up, so you might want to rephrase the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d285bf7c3b23493db923814a04a2cfd1\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: They already think that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5b496bff9a4e63aeed3db1c183c997\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that? You did. You know what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227edff4125a224ceda5ce331011936f93\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f1e54933f545c198f749fb0ac9ac5e\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want me to rephrase the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c66e4f0a5001426b8597e996ed909069\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288356656dfdd496badc4b6450ba493dd\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Are the ED wait time figures being obscured to make them look better than they actually are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ff0523b7724f4082695cf6d13c54d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, there was a publication error and that the underlying data that has been available throughout to decision makers will be made available shortly, and Te Whatu Ora has apologised for that error. I have not at all tried to sugar-coat the situations in emergency departments. I have visited three departments since I came into this role. I\u2019ve seen my former colleagues and the circumstances that they are working in, and I want them to know that the Government understands they are under pressure, and they were rightfully, quite reasonably, disappointed by the incorrect reporting of those statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e625425cb5a40b4b1d3486d505a7a7d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Emergency Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebc699eee2254403afc15bbc7a893c8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebc699eee2254403afc15bbc7a893c8e\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Emergency Management: What announcement has he made on further support for the cyclone and flooding recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7e3b5b148ad4b6baf294203ec20f6a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7e3b5b148ad4b6baf294203ec20f6a7\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the Government announced a contribution of $15 million to help local councils remove rubbish from cyclone-affected areas. Local authorities need to make urgent rubbish collections from residential properties. We\u2019ve heard from some that they don\u2019t have the financial capacity to deal with the issue, given the scale, so it\u2019s important we support them to take immediate action. I note from my regular conversations with affected councils that further support will be required, but this funding is a welcome relief to those communities that are heading towards recovery. Local councils are having to face unprecedented damage from the cyclone, so I\u2019m glad that we\u2019re able to contribute funds that will enable them to help their communities as fast as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e67b9d64e1b4b6caea0e249f2caf186\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How will this support work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b648ee627dac4b5bb081e76fbd0a61c7\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: This funding will provide immediate financial support to the councils for the rubbish collections caused by cyclone damage. Councils are best placed to determine priority based on the worst affected areas and those that pose a higher public health risk. The funding also covers transport and disposal. This support is provided as an addition to the council\u2019s own waste management funding streams, as well as insurance and Earthquake Commission arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca7a60937e44221879aea89538340b5\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government support the affected communities to deal with silt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7eb39d116642748f64e0d9679f4729\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve announced a $55 million primary sector support package that will help farmers and growers remove silt, but we\u2019ve also directed officials to urgently provide advice on a long-term plan for the silt clean-up. This plan has been based on the most up-to-date environmental science so that our efforts are effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e6c116ce2564d37b932a15245b4560c\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements has the Government made to support cyclone recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d061428a7fa407e97410d0a6f63d812\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Today, the Minister for Social Development and the Associate Minister for Cyclone Recovery announced a $15 million reimbursement package for marae, iwi, and recognised rural and community groups. These groups have used their own resources to provide welfare support to people affected by the cyclone. There is existing provision in the emergency management system for this kind of support, but it can take time to distribute and normally doesn\u2019t extend to the community groups who have stepped up in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle. We\u2019ve streamlined this process and made more groups eligible so that they can be appropriately reimbursed for essential support that they have provided people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e715c1581cfd41389211b96ecdb69482\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b497691d12f74737acd2d5e3577fad54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b497691d12f74737acd2d5e3577fad54\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does she stand by all of her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002266a15ab0e5e24f238eaad4845b59523a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a15ab0e5e24f238eaad4845b59523a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: Yes, in the context in which they were given and taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c7765d3a344fbfbbee8ddb4120b14d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How does she stand by her statement last October on TVNZ regarding hate speech: \u201CI guarantee that I\u2019ll be introducing a law that I intend to have concluded and put into law by the next election.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8390562b5074b078991ee63ba1971f3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that confirms that these matters must be taken within the context in which they are given. Of course, the Government has since said that all of those issues are now going to be considered by the Law Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d756dc1e76b94739b673b2464bc1faed\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it\u2019s a good look for the country when guarantees given by its justice Minister aren\u2019t worth anything and cannot be relied upon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222af03cf8d384902b63f2bd12923ef61\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, but that\u2019s just not correct, as I have already explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a10e062eb58497fab1e97b542b18af0\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that her proposed hate speech legislation \u201Cwould have consumed the government\u2019s time and energy at a time when it needed to focus\u201D and that, in justice, the Government should be focused on combating the 33 percent increase in violent crime, the 500 percent increase in ram raids, and long delays to the courts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf99ef978244141b41b4705849201e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm for the member that ram raids are down by two-thirds, which is very good news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da77da537e034200ac4d3da99575abf1\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the people of Long Drive. Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c946f82f4aa4db28e55d5f11aa95cbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9d431e2c1f4e519b4ba801ea814b4a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206486d2236cc420995efacc023f879e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Was that your supplementary, that comment that you made, because really\u2014you know, I think the member has been here long enough to know that you don\u2019t start off a supplementary by giving a narrative on the previous answer; you ask a question. I\u2019m just considering whether I should count that as the question. I think that, in this case, I\u2019ll let you ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df94543d9f6c4c9aab267e2c190082aa\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. My supplementary question is: why, when the Government still hasn\u2019t effectively addressed the 33 percent increase in violent crime, is her Government still devoting the Government\u2019s time and energy to introducing legislation to lower the voting age to 16?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3d900517c645ed8cd3c125d08c5283\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014as followers of the cricket might appreciate\u2014in the style of Geoffrey Boycott and Mark Richardson, I can confirm that Cabinet has taken no such decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204725a6c21294ff8829f56e20c186c37\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Small Business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022e87219c477a646c7889b05daaf6739fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e87219c477a646c7889b05daaf6739fa\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business: What recent progress has been made on the roll-out of the Government\u2019s fog cannon subsidy scheme for New Zealand small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8da171d23704f9b94662a2528ac5403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8da171d23704f9b94662a2528ac5403\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last week, I visited the One Stop Shop convenience store in central Wellington to see a fog cannon installed and tested, after having received a voucher from the Government\u2019s subsidy scheme. The scheme, which went live on 1 February of this year, has already seen over 500 applications approved across the country. I\u2019m advised that 88 fog cannons have already been installed, with another 168 booked in for installation over the coming months. People deserve to feel safe in their workplace, and the Minister of Police and I are determined to make it as easy as possible for small businesses to take part in this scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf32afe6dae4b888e6b786a82d0bfdc\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What is the criteria of the scheme, and how many small businesses are likely to receive support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270ac3fe3b1504647b6b0c2f40f5f4ccc\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: To qualify for this scheme, the retail business\u2019 main purpose must be to sell finished goods to the public, such as a dairy, bottle store, jeweller, clothes shop, or service station. Retailers will need to meet certain criteria to be eligible, including having no more than two outlets, five or fewer paid staff, and a street frontage. While it is difficult to accurately estimate the demand, for the rest of the financial year we are forecasting up to 1,500 vouchers being issued to small businesses around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223217f90ad8334556882d7c8b99983b85\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the regional distribution of vouchers and installations to small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229892a7b65d254101baab0641632d10bb\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Auckland and Christchurch have been in the majority of the approved applications to date, but there have been a regionally diverse range of installations, including 21 in Waikato, 13 in Auckland, 19 in Canterbury, four in Whanganui-Manawat\u016B, seven in the Bay of Plenty, and 18 in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245656dc2abf1414fbc09c68ce395ddd6\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Is it too late for small businesses to participate in the scheme; if not, how can they do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670bf0dcf26140f2af7674819d8bfe1f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. For small-business owners to participate in the scheme\u2014not at all. It takes approximately 15 minutes to complete an online application, and if the applicant provides all of the eligibility and declaration information, the approval is instantaneous. To date, 70 percent of applications have been automatically approved. The business will immediately be emailed a voucher and a contact list of one of the 18 approved providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220121aa8aca164bfd9f1b9aaf6adf9373\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002228028b7e62304b73978d0b046321bd6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228028b7e62304b73978d0b046321bd6e\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does he stand by his statement, \u201Cwe now engage in active monitoring of the Public Service\u2019s use of contractors and consultants\u201D; if so, when did the active monitoring begin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00222926bab51182408482d350d30c871df4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222926bab51182408482d350d30c871df4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I refer the member to my primary answer to his question yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66231185ce645a8b85561046e56ebc1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his active monitoring of the Public Service\u2019s use of contractors and consultants, will he be sending a memo to the Minister of Transport, who spent over $51 million on contractors and consultants on the now cancelled Auckland cycle bridge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4244532d075480fbba52ee0a900b39c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to the answer to the supplementary question along the same lines that the member asked yesterday, and I invite him to listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240930e5c6a3e4cdca76fef791397bad1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his active monitoring of the Public Service\u2019s use of contractors and consultants, will he be sending a memo to the Minister for Broadcasting and Media, who has so far spent $10 million on contractors and consultants on the failed TVNZ-RNZ merger, which he still says he wants to progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7da02dfc5ec45c284593c0548e233d8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I am satisfied in the work of the Public Service Commission in continuing to monitor the use of contractors and consultants, including in the field of broadcasting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3b4b7932d84595ab7a0020b23f1dfd\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his monitoring of contractors and consultants, will he be sending a memo to the Leader of the Opposition about their use of consultants in their first\u2014oh, sorry, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f59e3571ca0540c782f072e0b1e05965\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s completely out of order\u2014I think the member knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179ab99a40854041b90afa02e9fed8e0\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his active monitoring of the Public Service\u2019s use of contractors and consultants, will he be sending a memo to the Minister for the Public Service, whose department\u2019s spend on contractors and consultants increased from $1.4 million in 2018 to $3.4 million last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201dc85d49ad643d98e7b66f36af9fc3d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to his media release of Sunday just gone, where he acknowledged that it is appropriate for all Government departments at some point to use contractors and consultants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d96ea388737b4670931b4dec2b3d2984\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: As part of his active monitoring of the Public Service\u2019s use of contractors and consultants, will he be sending a memo to the Minister of Education, where expenditure on contractors and consultants was over $600,000 per day last year, up from $100,000 a day when Chris Hipkins used to complain about that in Opposition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200afe5c9cb2545c3aa7c6b8aa833c636\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I remain satisfied in the work of the Public Service Commission in its monitoring function of the use of consultants and contractors, and I\u2019m pleased to see the member is taking good use of the information that that is yielding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f726dc4cd27f4d8ba5a6f0b28c99d3dd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022564f007b7ace4f4da4d0118a2db0863e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022564f007b7ace4f4da4d0118a2db0863e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he think that banks have unfairly profited from economic circumstances during the COVID-19 pandemic while ordinary people in Aotearoa are doing it tough; if so, what actions is he taking to redress the balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0ec222c3e6c4cb792309b90584ee6da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0ec222c3e6c4cb792309b90584ee6da\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, as the member and I have discussed several times before, banks in New Zealand have made large profits since well before the COVID-19 pandemic. In terms of the question of unfair profit, I would note, in terms of the pandemic, the approach taken by the Reserve Bank has mirrored most other countries in the face of enormous uncertainty about the volatility of bond markets and liquidity. In answer to the second part of the question, the Government acknowledges that many New Zealanders have been, and are, doing it tough. That\u2019s why we have taken a number of actions to help ordinary people in Aotearoa, including increasing benefits, superannuation, the family tax credit, student allowances, and lifting the minimum wage. We\u2019ve also provided a temporary cost of living payment, cut fuel excise tax and road-user charges, and halved the cost of public transport. We\u2019ve increased access to subsidised childcare, made doctors visits cheaper, provided free lunches in schools, and introduced a winter energy payment. The Government is focused on easing the cost of living pressures on ordinary New Zealanders while also managing the books in a careful and responsible manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b029fb7d8d542018d47c1d60516b252\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware if Adrian Orr\u2019s recent comments that \u201Crevenue raising through other alternatives makes the job of monetary policy easier.\u201D; if so, what fiscal initiatives is he considering to make the job of monetary policy easier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b09985a63734747820356e70e851eb7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of that question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf9cacdad96e4a44b3dbb28f537f897c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, who said last year that bank profits are unjustifiable; or does he agree with current Prime Minister Chris Hipkins, who has said, \u201CThere are some New Zealanders who perhaps aren\u2019t contributing their fair share.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8a8b4d31c784aef918de8c0fc5c8221\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b903af9fc348ee80182ee8da627a80\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that a levy on excess profits in the banking sector would be an effective way to fund the recovery from Cyclone Gabrielle because it would avoid exacerbating inflation; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228fb072e58de48ab8342576721bb180d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve noted in this House, the Government is doing as the previous Government did in the wake of Canterbury earthquakes, taking our time to work through possible ways of funding the costs that inevitably come with the significant recovery and rebuild programmes. No final decisions have been made on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214fc0b15089d4244a48c132d664f5db7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What genuine obstacles are there to the Government implementing an excess-profit tax on banks whose massive profits can be seen as linked to the unique economic circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic economic response?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fc8868fd3c9456e834f1425b3e109e4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think there are particular obstacles other than going through the process of thinking about how to make a decision like that. As I noted in my primary answer, bank profits in New Zealand have been high for a long period of time, so I don\u2019t necessarily buy that part of the member\u2019s argument with respect to COVID-19. As I\u2019ve also said in the past, banks have to have an eye to their social licence. The way that they operate\u2014for example, in response to a cyclone\u2014is a way that both the Government and members of the public may judge their social licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c4e234066d49ab8c0ef98ee5f08bfc\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that urgent economic decisions made during the COVID-19 pandemic have resulted in a significant transfer of wealth to the richest few in Aotearoa; and if so, does he think that it is incumbent on a Labour Minister of Finance to redress that balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca68e66e4d4d4175aaccc6ff09bacd3c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member and I have discussed this matter before as well. The only way that the number that I\u2019ve heard about, which I noticed she chose not to use in the question, could be justified\u2014$20 billion or something\u2014would be by including every single transfer to a small-business owner in New Zealand. Not all small-business owners in New Zealand would be regarded as extremely wealthy. In fact, many of them do it very tough every day, just getting through. So I understand the point the member\u2019s making, but I don\u2019t think the way that it\u2019s been expressed is entirely accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a995a2a9536541da9683624686f20453\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can he look the people of Aotearoa in the eye and tell them that everyone is paying their fair share of tax; and if not, when will he sort it out and tax the rich?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff723381e3ff43a5a1cd2bc3f33e67eb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, we always have to strive to make sure that all New Zealanders are paying their fair share, and, in fact, I think it was in the House last week that I expressed the view that we are not there yet, and I made particular reference then to the taxation of multinationals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279e27ecec4674671b2332a48b8e08c22\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Broadcasting and Media\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2d7b18c14dc4844940d44803549ad71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2d7b18c14dc4844940d44803549ad71\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Broadcasting and Media: Does he stand by all of the Government\u2019s views and actions regarding the proposals to merge RNZ and TVNZ into Aotearoa New Zealand Public Media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00229239a6a0951c4a0e81ede1106de6dfb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229239a6a0951c4a0e81ede1106de6dfb5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for Broadcasting and Media):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, at the time they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262cba32902564f9ebc9ffab8f7697141\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement, \u201CWhen we don\u2019t have a cyclone and we don\u2019t have the floods of the century, [who knows] we might be able to roll that merger out.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221172eeaa183c4b6397fdf2b0fa06048a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the member needs to put that in context in terms of the merger. The merger is well and truly over and yesterday we were talking in a different environment. The reality is that the merger is finished; the merger is over. We will not be bringing it back, not now and not in the future and not in the upcoming campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be408c1ba4f4cbaa305b946119c790c\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the Government is paying on the $1.19 million lease for empty office spaces in Wellington for the cancelled RNZ-TVNZ merger while overly generously paid consultants continue to assist his $8,000-a-day board for a wash-out report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5f3827614ab49c881c41e05251752d5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The establishment board has met 1\u00BD times in the last month. We have to get a report; that\u2019s the professional thing to do. And when you enter into lease agreements, the New Zealand law is you must pay them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23dab9f37b34a75b1919f352a696b1d\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason the Minister only found out the RNZ-TVNZ merger \u201Cwill stop on the day of the announcement, which is 8 February 2023\u201D, because he hadn\u2019t read his Cabinet papers or that the Cabinet paper was only tabled at the meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d4ace0278348a9a2ffc79011a5d60e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022476a5ea70688469493fee69649997719\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the Prime Minister saying the merger will stop or the broadcasting Minister saying that \u201CWell, we might be able to roll out the merger.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229123080977a24b42a6e62ef9ae801012\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I 100 percent support the Prime Minister. The reality is that the merger is over. I\u2019m not sure how many times we need to say that. The Prime Minister announced that on 8 February and I\u2019ll announce it now just for that member: the merger is over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfc45e65fecd4539b429df91e0ad5448\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fae7b5ca8e8948b6ac24ec8dcf168c8b\u0022\u003EPublic Sector Leaders\u2014Code of Conduct for Crown Entity Board Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb3fe327e456407d8fcaece8a776027f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb3fe327e456407d8fcaece8a776027f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from Simeon Brown seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the conduct of some public sector leaders, in respect of the Code of Conduct for Crown Entity Board Members. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The test of whether a particular case requires the immediate attention of the House is a high one. I am not convinced that this matter warrants setting aside the business of the House today. Therefore, the application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e3dfdedc4a5406782d51d6370f89de1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022817589971e6643d286642032aa256bb7\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002257f215ece35a4756b501c21c9668eff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257f215ece35a4756b501c21c9668eff6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474c81bf707d4395992f3b8fa5f58136\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. And I would ask members leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f83f446ccd432080b1e320fbb496b9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am pleased to be able to bring this legislation to the House. It marks a moment of the maturing of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, or the way in which it operates. When the fund was established, it was established deliberately to not allow the Guardians of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to take a controlling interest in an entity. This was done at the time because the establishment of the fund was obviously taking place and also because, at that point in history, sovereign wealth funds across the world weren\u2019t tending to take controlling interests in their work. Over time that has changed, both in terms of the maturing of the fund here in New Zealand and the approach that is taken internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe undertook, through the Treasury, to do a review of section 59, which prevents the New Zealand Superannuation Fund from taking a controlling interest in the entity, and that piece of work was completed in 2021. What that piece of work told us was that there was a pathway through for the fund to be able to move into this direction. The purpose of the legislation that is in front of us now is to take forward what was said in that report and put it in front of the House for debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen I was assessing whether or not it was a good idea to go ahead with this idea, I did speak to the late Sir Michael Cullen as the architect of this fund, and I was reassured in doing so that Dr Cullen thought that the time had come for this move, as he noted to me, as the fund grew in the size of its assets but also in the way that it invested. He had always felt that this would be a course of action that would make sense and he felt that the time for doing this was right. So today we come to the House with the bill that, as I say, amends section 59 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act to allow the guardians to take a controlling interest in an entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes a number of other amendments to ensure that the investment by the fund does not result in an entity being treated as part of the Crown, which was one of the concerns at the initiation of the original Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the Act makes some consequential amendments to the Ombudsman Act and the Official Information Act to make sure that a private sector subsidiary of the fund would not have the Act applied to them\u2014however, the guardians themselves, of course, remain subject to the Act\u2014and some changes to the Income Tax Act to address the removal of references to fund investment vehicles and to preserve the current tax treatment of New Zealand Superannuation Fund investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is part of the rules of the Act that I consult with other parties about any changes to the Act. I did that across Parliament, and without wanting to put words into the mouths of any of my colleagues in the House, the feedback I received was broadly positive, although I\u2019m sure we will hear from some members about some of the issues they have, and those issues I am confident will be able to be resolved at the select committee when we reach that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs the fund has grown and matured, it has increasingly developed the capability to take on a lead investor role with the ability to own businesses. The New Zealand Superannuation Fund wants this ability, and I do think it will provide a significant support to New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. It also will allow the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, as I said before, to bring itself in line with global peers, who, of course, at this point, are in a different place than they were when the Act was passed some 20 or so years ago. Those global peers have shown that sovereign wealth funds can in fact play a significant role in not only the capital markets of their own countries but also in others when they do do this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ERemoving the control that is currently in section 59 will enable the fund to access a wider group of viable investment partners and opportunities, especially in strategic infrastructure. It will, according both to the report done through the Treasury but also to the experience of other countries, attract institutional investors who are comfortable with the guardians\u2019 due diligence practices and, as I say, therefore deepening capital markets for domestic transactions. It does also provide an opportunity set for New Zealand investments and the potential to increase the risk-adjusted return of the fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe guardians\u2019 flexibility around their investment strategy that will be enabled by this Act should enable the portfolio to realise a greater return after costs for the level of risk taken. That is exactly the position I think New Zealanders would want the fund to be in coming up to a couple of decades past the institution of the fund. It continues to play an important role as a partner in a number of businesses both here in New Zealand and offshore, but this opens up a new pathway and a new strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe guardians, through the amendments that we are making to section 59, may have controlling interests in a number of different ways. These include controlling an entity through ownership of shares, controlling a holding company, controlling their other ownership rights under a trust, contractual rights, or rights to appoint directors\u2014and entities that are so controlled may in turn control other entities in different ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI understand that people will want to make sure that there are some checks and balances upon this approach. The bill provides for a review of these changes within 10 years as part of one of the regular five-year statutory reviews of the fund. It is important to note that this bill does not alter the statutory independence of the guardians from political influence in relation to investment decisions, which is provided for in section 64(2) of the Act. That independence is vital. This is simply a mechanism to enable a different form of investment through taking a controlling interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnother matter that was in fact raised in the Treasury\u2019s review of section 59 was the question of how to create a framework that would be transparent for New Zealanders to understand the way in which the guardians will go about their work. So they will be including in the statement of investment policies, standards, and procedures the details of a governance framework for the operation and implementation of controlled entities. So I do think it is important that that provision exists so that New Zealanders can understand the way in which the Reserve Bank is going about its work and understand where that fits in. This was a particular matter that was raised in the review and I\u2019m pleased that we\u2019ve been able to pick that up and put it into the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo, from my perspective, this is a good piece of legislation that marks the further maturing of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. It gives an opportunity for New Zealanders to know that greater returns will be made, which will enable the Superannuation Fund to grow and play its part in contributing to the future costs of New Zealanders\u2019 superannuation. As a Government, I am especially proud of the fact that we reinstated contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, on coming into office, and that has seen the fund grow at a rate that unfortunately it missed out on for a few years. This bill will make sure that there is an additional incentive and opportunity for the Guardians of the Superannuation Fund to grow the wealth that we need to support New Zealanders having dignity in their retirement. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6fedf8f3b74bc1b9e463f6d8e56ca9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002228eceef9a23147cbbf258d1434336016\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228eceef9a23147cbbf258d1434336016\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E National is offering our cautious support for this bill to progress to select committee. I want to acknowledge the letter we received from the Minister of Finance in November under section 73 of the 2001 Act. He fulfilled his duty to consult with us before proposing amendments to the Superannuation Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to just talk in these remarks about the history of the Superannuation Fund and the changes that have occurred during the time it has been in place, and to highlight some of the risks we can see with this approach that we think it\u2019s very important that the select committee examine carefully. I think the first thing to say is that we acknowledge the desire from many to see deeper domestic capital markets in New Zealand, and we acknowledge also the need to see investment in strategic infrastructure through those capital markets. Those are both things that we support and that we think are good. We also acknowledge that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund has matured and grown a lot since its inception in 2001, and so it is logical that there will, from time to time, be the need to modernise the legislative framework in which it operates\u2014particularly to ensure it is up to international best practice. And it\u2019s clear when we look across the world that direct investment into entities has become a much more common feature of best practice portfolio management, whether that be by sovereign wealth funds or other such funds. That has been a clear change that has occurred over the past 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENational starts from the position that we want to see the Superannuation Fund delivering good returns to New Zealanders and to be performing well. However, what we don\u2019t want to see is the Superannuation Fund potentially crowding out other investors in this market, and we\u2019re particularly conscious that the New Zealand market is a small one and that the Superannuation Fund is relatively large within that context. So it\u2019s our view that the select committee should be looking at not only what is best practice overseas, but what potential implications those practices would have in the smaller domestic context of New Zealand, and that is something worthy of examination and expert input. So we will be carefully listening to those who submit to the select committee and I will be encouraging a broad range of people to share their views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo as I said, I want to talk a little bit about the history, because if we go back to the original restriction on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund from holding a controlling interest in entities, that was there right from the beginning, in 2001, and, actually, it was quite an important feature of the Act and of the creation of the fund. That was because the Superannuation Fund was conceived of as a portfolio of financial investments and not actually a direct operator of businesses, which are two quite different functions. It has been, in the past, as I said, normal practice for private investment funds to avoid controlling interests. There were good reasons for why the Crown would want to restrict that, particularly because there could be an implied guarantee by the Crown of the entities\u2019 liabilities in the case of financial difficulty. To put it plainly, there is a risk that if there\u2019s a situation where the Superannuation Fund chooses not to support a company that it has invested in that\u2019s now failing due to commercial reasons: if it\u2019s the company that\u2019s not doing well, but the Superannuation Fund has that majority stake\u2014but potentially that involves people losing their jobs; bad implications that none of us want to see\u2014then the Government and the Superannuation Fund itself face significant political pressure to do a bail out. That creates risks for the way those investments are both selected and managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge that we\u2019ve had evolution in this space already. In 2015, the then National Government passed the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill, and that allowed the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to hold a controlling interest in entities formed for the purpose of holding, facilitating, or managing the investments of the fund\u2014so fund investment vehicles. And there was an exception to the restriction that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund does not hold controlling interests in entities. So there is some precedent here, although of course this bill takes it a step further. When the Superannuation Fund brought this to the attention of the Minister\u2014and I understand it was there in black and white in their briefing to the Minister in 2020\u2014they felt that this constraint meant that they had limits on their potential investment opportunities, particularly in markets like New Zealand, where investments tend to be smaller scale, and they felt that the constraint was unnecessary. I\u2019d note that in response to that claim from the Superannuation Fund, Treasury undertook a review of the restriction, and as I\u2019ve noted in my earlier remarks, they shared the view that direct investment has become a much more common feature of best practice portfolio management internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHowever, there are still a couple of things we need to really watch for here. The first is, when we repeal section 59 of the Act, we do open up the potential for political pressure on the Superannuation Fund about the kinds of investments that it makes. Now, officials have made that warning clearly: they\u2019ve said that they are concerned that removing the restriction on the Superannuation Fund from acquiring a controlling interest might lead to a crossover with ministerial interests, and that creates a risk of lobbying from other portfolio ministers. If I can just spell this out in black and white: imagine a scenario where Michael Wood really wants to get light rail across the line\u2014there really isn\u2019t the money in New Zealand to fund it, and it doesn\u2019t fit within transport priorities for the Crown\u2014and he decides that the way to make that happen is to put pressure on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to instead make that investment where the Minister of Finance chooses; he won\u2019t make it directly. Now those are the sorts of issues we as a select committee must confront, because I know it will be tempting for members opposite to say and think, \u201CWell, nothing like that would ever happen. No, no, it won\u2019t happen\u201D, but it is our job to foresee things that may happen in the future and to ensure there are appropriate guards against it. So that is an issue that we National members on the select committee will be exploring in some detail because we think the risk of New Zealanders\u2019 retirement savings fund being used for political purposes, for pet projects, is one that we can\u2019t tolerate. So we need to guard against that risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe second issue that we think is very important for the select committee to look at in some detail is that issue of bailout expectations: ensuring that the Superannuation Fund is in some way controlled off from the expectation that the Crown will be bailing out companies where, in a normal commercial transaction, that wouldn\u2019t occur. The third risk that I\u2019d highlight is the issue of reputational risk to the Crown, and this is something that officials have seized on, where they\u2019ve said there is potential that, where the Superannuation Fund is gaining controlling interests in an entity, then, from an offshore perspective\u2014or even actually from the perspective of New Zealanders\u2014that is seen then as a Government company and therefore all of its actions reflect on the frameworks of the Crown; reflect on what the Crown thinks is good, bad, or indifferent. I note that Treasury say there are some ways that that could be mitigated, but I think we need to explore that at the committee, because the separation between the Superannuation Fund and the Government is important and we are very conscious of the need to protect that separation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, I would say that National\u2019s attitude to this bill is an example of our desire to be constructive about the way financial frameworks are formed in New Zealand. We want to see the Superannuation Fund performing well. We do think that there is a case for deepening capital markets, we do think that there is potential that the Superannuation Fund could both create value for New Zealanders and create value for the fund through these sorts of controlling interests. However, as I\u2019ve said, we must proceed with caution, and we will be taking our roles on the select committee very seriously. This bill is a big change and we need to scrutinise it appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f45745d0be11450ab95d08b353471bbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f45745d0be11450ab95d08b353471bbe\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity to speak on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. As we\u2019ve heard from the previous two speakers, the New Zealand super fund is a very important part of our financial system and, as the Minister said, it supports people having dignity in their retirement. So it is very important that any changes to the system\u2014that we get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re wanting to do here is to improve the settings of the fund to make it more sustainable. As we\u2019ve heard from the previous two speakers, the fund has matured so that\u2014and we will investigate this at the select committee\u2014that avoidance of a controlling interest is no longer needed and, in fact, it\u2019s unhelpful and limits what the super fund can invest in. I appreciate, from across the House there, that everybody is wanting to support New Zealand\u2019s capital markets, growing those, and this is intended to be one way that will, hopefully, provide comfort for other investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EOn to the bill itself, it\u2019s a very small bill and it\u2019s amending the primary legislation. So, really, you need to look at both the Act and the bill together. The purpose of the Act is to establish this fund and to provide for Government contributions to the fund, and that doesn\u2019t change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe main part of the Act that is changing relates to the section headed, \u201CInvestment of Fund\u201D and that starts at section 58(1), which includes that \u201CThe Guardians are responsible for investing the Fund.\u201D, and \u201C(2) must invest the Fund on a prudent, commercial basis and, in doing so, must manage and administer the Fund in a manner consistent with\u2014(a) best-practice portfolio management; and (b) maximising return without undue risk to the Fund as a whole; and (c) avoiding prejudice to New Zealand\u2019s reputation\u201D. So that\u2019s not changing either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut then we get to section 59, \u201CNo controlling interests\u201D, and section 59A, \u201CFund investment vehicles\u201D\u2014and the previous speaker, Nicola Willis, was talking about that section earlier and amendments made under the previous Government; and section 59B, \u201CFund investment vehicles not required to prepare statements or annual reports\u201D. So these three sections get replaced by section 59, in clause 6 of the bill, which allows for this change. So they will be replaced with new section 59, \u201CStatus of certain entities\u201D, and it goes through what the other speakers have already spoken about, there. There\u2019s also a change to section 61, in terms of \u201CContents of statements\u201D, and the Minister spoke about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI think what is important to speak about, as well, in terms of the previous speech, is section 64. This is around \u201CMinisterial directions\u201D and is not changed by the bill. Hopefully, it will give some comfort to the previous speaker, but I do take her points that this is something that we do not want to get into ministerial interference. So section 64(1) says that \u201CThe Minister may, after consultation with the Guardians, give directions to the Guardians regarding the Government\u2019s expectations as to the Fund\u2019s performance, including the Government\u2019s expectations as to risk and return.\u201D But then it says at subsection (2), \u201CDespite anything to the contrary in the Crown Entities Act 2004, the Minister\u2014(a) must not give a direction that is inconsistent with the Guardians\u2019 duty to invest the Fund on a prudent, commercial basis, in accordance with section 58; and (b) must not give a direction to the Guardians in respect of the Fund except in accordance with this section.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to just reflect on the slightly unusual process that happens with amendments to this Act, in that the Minister has to consult with the other parties. We\u2019ve heard from the previous speaker that National is very interested in this bill and will be very engaged in the select committee, and I welcome that we will have a very good discussion around this bill and, I\u2019m sure, welcome submissions on it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to say that it\u2019s interesting that not only did the Minister have to consult with the members in this House, with the other parties, but he was also able to consult the late Sir Michael Cullen about it. It gives me some comfort that he approved of this process. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00223f59d1e616ca46d6910585369dea5e33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f59d1e616ca46d6910585369dea5e33\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think, in this country, we are well served by the two major sovereign investment funds that we have, the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation and the investment arm of ACC, both of whom manage somewhere in the region of $55 billion to $60 billion. I\u2019ve had a 27-year history with ACC\u2014firstly as a manager, and more recently as the Minister for ACC and the ACC spokesperson. So I\u2019ve got a reasonably deep understanding and admiration for the way in which their investment managers have been able to enjoy returns, on behalf of the New Zealand taxpayer, pretty significantly above the market rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation have an excellent team with whom I had developed quite a good relationship in my time as finance spokesperson, and I still keep in touch with them from time to time\u2014they are really, really canny people. We often have some political t\u00EAte-\u00E0-t\u00EAtes over the level of remuneration and bonuses for people in those teams. Well, the reality is they could earn a huge amount more in other wealth funds, here in New Zealand and around the world, if they didn\u2019t choose this form of\u2014albeit highly paying\u2014public service. So I just want to commend them for the work they do on behalf of the New Zealand taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I do share the concerns that were expressed by my colleague and friend Nicola Willis in our cautious support for this bill, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill, at first reading, and I encourage those with views on both sides of the argument to come along and give the Finance and Expenditure Committee as good advice as we can get, because there are very strong pros and cons on the degree to which big levels of institutional ownership in a stock is a positive or a negative thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, institutions like this have access to the best analysis and the best sort of insight into whether or not holding majority or controlling interests in companies is a good thing for them. So what it tends to do is that people will follow those institutional investors. And so the naive investor or the common stockholder often looks to those institutional investors to see what they\u2019re doing because they\u2019ve obviously got a track record of getting returns above the market average. So they\u2019re going to be drawn to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a double whammy in terms of that in respect to the fact that this is a Crown-owned wealth fund and, therefore, there\u2019s this almost implied sort of Government guarantee to it. Now, we know that\u2019s not the case, but that is a risk, and it\u2019s actually, I think, a risk that was identified by Treasury in their advice on the bill. Conversely, there is\u2014regardless of whether the wealth fund is sovereign or not\u2014always this kind of drag when an institution sells large parcels and or the controlling interest in an organisation. Research that I\u2019ve had a look at suggests that the stock price could drop by as much as 5 percent below its real value simply because an institutional investor has decided to sell down a large portion of its stock. It\u2019s not appropriate to assign the blame or the cause of the drop in the stock\u2019s value simply to an institutional investor\u2019s sale of them, but it does highlight the fact that large controlling interests, in any event, can carry some value risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I think that\u2019s probably why, in 2001, when the scheme was set up, there was this control. Obviously, it was a risk management issue as well, because, you know, if you\u2019re exposed to large parcels and things go bad, then that can be quite a big hit on what was then a relatively immature sovereign fund. Now, it\u2019s had 22 years to mature. So it has been\u2014in the past\u2014normal practice to control a private investment fund\u2019s controlling interests. I\u2019m not sure that the case yet has been made that that restriction should be relaxed for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, but we\u2019ll keep an open mind on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis also raised\u2014and, perhaps, to some quiet derision from the other side\u2014the possibility that there could be political influence on and the use of these funds to substitute for borrowing\u2014and to use an example of Michael Wood, as the Minister of Transport, wanting to dip into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, actually, Treasury also talked about the possibility that that pressure could be applied. Interesting to see that they warned that the risk of lobbying from other portfolio Ministers \u201Ccould become more pronounced\u201D. Implicit in that is the fact that they believe that exists now and needs to be resisted. But I think what she described is a sort of an odd form of public-public partnership. Now, I, in principle, quite strongly support the idea of public-private partnerships, actually. And it was a shame that things like Dunedin Hospital and one or two others weren\u2019t actually actively pursued by this Government. But, actually, in the advice given to Ministers when we came to office in 2008\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9fbd091b2b0445ba798ea1ba21bbc7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, they want to privatise health. The agenda\u2019s coming out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec041ceb2d4497396b096fd3e13499a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: See, there we go\u2014see, there we go. Ideological blinkers\u2014ideological blinkers\u2014are staying on all the way to that member\u2019s exit from the House. Well, that\u2019s the point about a public-public partnership: the money is New Zealanders\u2019, whether it\u2019s borrowed or diverted from the super fund into those assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I actually don\u2019t think that\u2019s the worst thing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund could invest in. But I do think there are serious, serious concerns about the extent to which they should be investing in those sorts of infrastructure assets. They have to be long run, but I don\u2019t think they should be the sole investor or owner of them, because I think that\u2019s a risk too big for them to carry. But what Nicola Willis was talking about and what Treasury advised could happen is the degree to which there is political pressure to draw on those funds to fund infrastructure assets into the future. I expect there to be some belt and braces controls around that sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe other risk that was highlighted was the sort of bailout expectation\u2014if a company does go bad because it fails due to commercial reasons, and the Government is pressured to support or bailout the company. Now, we saw that with Air New Zealand, actually. So it does happen. But the question is: if you take the politics one step removed\u2014and the whole essence of the Superannuation Fund is that politicians and Ministers are not influencing their investments\u2014then the risk that that could happen in a bailout situation is also quite real. It\u2019s much, much lower-risk if the Superannuation Fund was prevented from having the controlling interest\u2014then that pressure would never be brought to bear because they couldn\u2019t increase the interest above 50 percent. Now, they could. So, yes, there are pros to this, but there are also some significant risks that need to be managed, particularly while there is a Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just got to finish by the ridiculous continuation of the mantra that because the Key-English Government suspended contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, somehow New Zealanders were better off. Well, I would encourage Grant Robertson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed65c672b574e7c9687f03f64c0df96\u0022\u003EHon Dr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: $29 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e6ae12dd15448ab72f651fdd1ceffc\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or Dr David Clark to go along to their bank. Let\u2019s say he goes along to his bank and he says, \u201CI\u2019ve got a great idea for investment in these shares but I haven\u2019t got any money, so I\u2019m going to borrow it. Please give me all that money and I\u2019ll give you the shares as backing.\u201D He would be laughed out of the bank. But that was exactly what David Cunliffe expected Bill English to do in about 2013, so confident was he that the stock market would go up. Now, had we been in the investment curve we\u2019re in now, instead of whatever number Dr Clark called out, we could have been billions and billions of dollars in the red. And if the member doesn\u2019t think that can happen, he should just go along to the Reserve Bank Governor and ask him what\u2019s happened to the Crown balance sheet after the funding for the Large Scale Asset Purchase programme, which so far has cost this country $8 billion and counting. But you don\u2019t hear the Labour Government talking about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI look forward to the select committee process, which should be a bit pointy-headed, but, actually, it will be a very interesting journey as we explore this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022d940ba4f47734687afada0c038d4300b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d940ba4f47734687afada0c038d4300b\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to take a call on this bill, and I\u2019m quite interested in the process, but I think that the average public member probably doesn\u2019t know why I would be, so I\u2019m going to try and explain it. The first thing about the Superannuation Fund to get a hold of, if you aren\u2019t familiar with it, is that there\u2019s this thing that is called the \u201Cguardians\u201D. The guardians are people who are a board and they\u2019re independent from the Government, and they manage funds. They manage two funds: one is a super fund that is big and broad and it\u2019s meant to really make sure that everybody has investments across the board, and then there\u2019s another fund which is called Elevate, and it actually invests in all the little enterprises which have been funded a little bit, but just need that bit more to become bigger and become more thriving companies. So it\u2019s a really interesting job that those people do, and they\u2019re extremely skilled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the things that\u2019s really important about them is that they\u2019re independent, and so here I totally agree with the Opposition. It\u2019s incredibly important that if we\u2019re going to change the nature of that investment, we change it so that we are entrenching that independence of those groups, so they\u2019re not doing the bidding of the Labour Government or the National Government one day. That\u2019s not going to happen, because those people are going to look after the interests of the investors\u2014that\u2019s all Kiwis\u2014and they\u2019re not going to be influenced. So, absolutely, that\u2019s something that we should all keep an eye on. As my friend Rachel Brooking\u2014who\u2019s the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee and cares deeply about these things\u2014says, it\u2019s already kind of entrenched in the legislation that that won\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s an important step that people have thought about before, but by all means it\u2019s something that we should talk about at the select committee and make sure it can\u2019t happen. I certainly don\u2019t want it going into a hospital, because the suggestion would be it would be like a profit-making thing, and I don\u2019t want that to happen, because the investment is not for that purpose. What I would like to see happen with such money, if there is a controlling interest ability, which is the change, is that the Superannuation Fund does invest in some of those big projects in New Zealand that need doing that probably aren\u2019t suitable for the Government but they might be suitable for a big super fund\u2014things like, perhaps, long-term rental. Overseas, we have super funds that build big apartments in places like Belgium, and those apartments are actually privately run, but they\u2019re run by the big super funds. So they\u2019ve got these big institutional investors going that really care about things like long-term rentals and having homes, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat is happening here is the legislation\u2019s been through one stage where it\u2019s been guarded against a big investment in one thing, and we\u2019ve got to the point where the guardians themselves and the way they\u2019ve conducted themselves are so good that, actually, if the guardians took a controlling interest, we\u2019d probably see investments from other super funds come alongside it, because they\u2019d know this was a well-managed project. So, actually, we\u2019re hopefully encouraging a whole other layer of investment that we need in this country, super fund to super fund or other big investor. I think we\u2019re all agreed that this is the time for this to happen, because the fund\u2019s got to that point where it\u2019s mature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also point out that, actually, one of the things that is in this legislation is that the guardians are going to have to establish a statement of policies and standards and procedures. So they\u2019re not just going to do whatever they want without anyone knowing; there\u2019d be a thoughtful and transparent process that says, \u201CThese are the kinds of things we decided to invest in.\u201D I\u2019m particularly keen on someone investing in a dry dock up north, because if they do that\u2014it\u2019s a big investment and not many can, but if they did something like that, well, actually, that would be really good for Auckland because we\u2019d get rid of all the big boats that clean themselves in Auckland harbour and they\u2019d go to a place where they could be actually environmentally friendly and cleaned, and we\u2019d have a better and prettier harbour. And it would help, obviously, my friend Emily Henderson up in Whang\u0101rei, because there is an opportunity for work, etc., there. So that\u2019s the kind of potential I can see in this legislation. I can see it doing good things, and I can see the actual obligation to consult with the other parties being part of, really, that entrenchment of this as an independent thing, as a good thing to do, but not necessarily something that we should have as a party political point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo, yes, I\u2019m absolutely mindful. This would be the guardians being able to make those decisions, not with my choice\u2014I couldn\u2019t necessarily lobby for a dry dock\u2014not with Mr Woodhouse\u2019s choice; he couldn\u2019t lobby for a hospital, but, actually, they will make rules and they will apply them and they will make good investments in this country. So I support this legislation going to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002241a8229e35e4486caefabd27622449f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241a8229e35e4486caefabd27622449f4\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Greens to offer our support on the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to start off by acknowledging that I think everyone in this House is interested in our senior citizens having a safety net. We may have differences about what that looks like and what people can access it, whether it is their retirement age or even residency settings, but the super fund is one of the mechanisms in which we, at the moment, have to maintain the sustainability of that safety net.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is aiming to do is, effectively, make changes so that the Superannuation Fund can take a controlling interest in an entity, and I note that speakers were talking about how the fund has matured and may be ready to do this. I also wanted to acknowledge previous comments around how this fund and decisions regarding this fund operate separate to the politicians. I\u2019ve noted that it\u2019s been described, on one hand, as apolitical, but I much prefer the sentiments by the previous speakers who spoke more about the separation of politicians and the decisions around the fund. Because everything is political and we can\u2019t pretend, actually, that the guardians don\u2019t have any sort of politics and are devoid of any ideology when it comes to making these decisions. So I would prefer for us to actually speak truth to the reality that you can\u2019t actually be apolitical in how you act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThese changes to the Superannuation Fund do represent an opportunity to require the guardians, through legislation, to undertake more ethical investment practices. The Greens have been really clear that we have had historic concerns about the unethical nature of some of these investments, and the fact that, right now, they are not strong enough. Rather than just relying on behaviour, we should legislate to ensure that we can both protect that safety net and contribute to economic progress, while not investing in things like fossil fuels and other emissions-intensive, environmentally or socially harmful investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe would, ideally, be keen to ensure that there is a requirement that a portion of these funds be targeted towards social-impact investments, including emissions reductions\u2014which would actually more broadly align with the Government\u2019s goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050. So we do think that there are improvements that we could be making and we do think that the process of this bill could enable for a rich discussion of how we do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI just, finally, would like to note that, ultimately, there is that broader conversation to be had about what kind of tax system we want to have that enables for enough revenue to be raised so that we\u2019re also not just relying on this fund to continue having that safety net for our ageing population. So we look forward to conversations at a select committee stage and further debates regarding this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002241e3f89152b94533818d71634deaf0df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241e3f89152b94533818d71634deaf0df\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to oppose, at first reading, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. However, I do look forward to seeing this bill go through select committee, where it will be challenged by my colleague Damien Smith, who sits on the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWhile the ACT Party was in consultation with the Minister of Finance about this particular bill, we wrote back to the Minister to suggest that, in principle, we were not opposed to the fund taking controlling interests in investments and in stocks, because it\u2019s obviously a new level of sophistication that the Superannuation Fund has managed to mature and reach, and in doing so, a public entity will need additional oversight. So it\u2019s important that the law is changed and it\u2019s scrutinised heavily, in doing so, to allow for the maturity of the Superannuation Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut where the ACT Party differs and why we won\u2019t be supporting this bill\u2014even though in principle we agree with the changes set out in it\u2014is because we don\u2019t believe that the Superannuation Fund should be contributing to investments in New Zealand or internationally. Essentially, what the Government is doing by continuing to invest is taking New Zealand taxpayers\u2019 money and making a decision about what to do with it and investing on behalf of New Zealanders. Well, in the ACT Party, we believe that the best decision-making for investment can happen by taxpayers themselves rather than by their Government. And I think the perfect example was made by my Green Party colleague Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March standing before and saying, \u201CWell, if we are going to invest in the Superannuation Fund, these are the types of investments we would like to see.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo if you start to believe that the New Zealand taxpayers should have the Government spending their money to invest in the stock market, you then raise the question of, well, what is a sensible investment? And you start to get a lot of people having their own political ideas of what a good investment would be. I believe the New Zealand taxpayer knows what sort of investments they believe will be best for themselves. And so that\u2019s why we believe that we would like to see capital markets in New Zealand grow. That means having a good regulatory system that enables people to be able to make those decisions for themselves and to have the confidence to invest in New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. And this is not the correct debate for it, but I am very interested in how we can change our regulatory systems to enable more New Zealanders to further invest in our New Zealand capital markets, especially a lot of younger people. You know, the next generation are investing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b793668c0e0f406c91eae8af9b585f34\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: Sharesies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91229fefb4f419499907afd176d5706\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014like my colleague across the House, Angela Roberts, says, in Sharesies. There are a number of other platforms. But we could particularly look at the technology side of these investments in online applications to ensure that younger people coming through have the knowledge and also have the ability with custodian rights under our New Zealand capital markets to make the best decisions and be actively involved in the sharemarkets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut we do not believe that we should be, as taxpayers, pooling our money through the Government to have this money used for investments. So we do not believe in continuing the contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. But we do believe in paying down debt. You know, this Government spends an awful lot of money on wasteful spending. The Government wastes our money. There\u2019s a lot that we could cut back on. But it\u2019s also very important that we pay down our debts so the next generation are not facing ongoing taxes and increased taxes down the line. I think it\u2019s very important that we keep our spending under check, that we stop the contributions to the Superannuation Fund, that we pay down our debts, and that we also remove wasteful spending where we can see it. That will keep costs of living under control. But it doesn\u2019t make sense to take New Zealand\u2019s taxpayer money and spend it on a bet. We\u2019re betting other people\u2019s money, and that money could be used better by New Zealanders themselves to invest where they think they can make a good decision, rather than where the Government thinks it can make a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo we are not supporting this bill. We are, in principle, supporting the idea of changing the controlling-interests part of the Superannuation Fund and allowing for more accountability through the changes to these laws, and we look forward to working through that at the select committee, but we are opposed to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and we believe it would be better for the Government to be paying down its debts rather than borrowing and spending and using New Zealanders\u2019 taxpayer money on the stock market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00227536ff6313904e51a6ade2cab0b947e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227536ff6313904e51a6ade2cab0b947e5\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can I just open this afternoon, albeit at the end of the week, just to acknowledge Tama Potaka in the House, a tuakana of mine and part of the ever-increasing representation of ng\u0101 iwi roa o [the confederated tribes of] M\u014Dkai P\u0101tea in Parliament. So, mihi atu ki a koe, te tuakana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to speak on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill this afternoon. This bill further strengthens Labour\u2019s commitment to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to ensure the sustainability of the New Zealand superannuation scheme into the future. We\u2019ve heard that this bill will allow the Superannuation Fund to take a controlling interest in an entity by amending section 59 of the Act to do so; that\u2019s in Part 1. So the fund can now take a controlling interest in a business or investment vehicle if the fund\u2019s guardians wish to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThis bill strengthens the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to ensure the sustainability of the New Zealand superannuation scheme into the future. It\u2019s a sensible change that would allow the fund to access a wider base of investment partners and opportunities, particularly from Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThe fund is mature now, of course, more than two decades on, with assets approaching $60 billion. It\u2019s quite a legacy from the late Sir Michael Cullen and the fifth Labour Government. It is a sovereign wealth fund and this change doesn\u2019t affect sovereignty, not for the fund and not for the Government. The bill does not affect the guardians\u2019 independence from the political influence in relation to investment decisions, and the fund can maintain its exclusion list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EA reminder of some of the areas that the fund does not invest in: companies in the tobacco industry; companies involved in the production of nuclear weapons, cluster munitions, and anti-personnel mines; companies involved in the processing of whale meat; companies involved in the manufacture of civilian automatic and semi-automatic firearms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the bill makes consequential amendments to the Ombudsmen Act so that the Act and Official Information Act do not apply to any private sector subsidiaries in which the guardians may hold a controlling interest, while preserving those Acts\u2019 application to the guardians itself, and the Income Tax Act, to address the removal of references to the fund\u2019s investment, vehicles, and to preserve the current tax treatment of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund investments. Allowing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to hold controlling interests will have a limited impact on competition with other market investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EAs part of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I think in the discussions that we have heard in the debating chamber this afternoon, it is important to offer the opportunity to the public and to key stakeholders to have their input into this bill, but as we know and as we\u2019ve heard from the majority of the House, we do support this bill, we do support the progress of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c018350d660e4ac79c41fea0e5ea00ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c018350d660e4ac79c41fea0e5ea00ed\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY SPEAKER (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5e02732121941a9891e37cf691d4be3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5e02732121941a9891e37cf691d4be3\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa and kia orana koutou katoatoa. E te tuakana, Shanan, e mihi ana ki a koe. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this bill. The Minister is at the intergenerational edge of responsible investment, and the purpose of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is aspirational and pragmatic\u2014sustainable investment delivering strong returns for all New Zealanders. Kia toit\u016B te haumi hei hua m\u0101 ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa o Aotearoa. [Let the investment be sustainable to provide for all people in New Zealand.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill, to allow the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to take a controlling interest in an entity, matches many of the murmurings of Friday night kombucha and sushi sessions I enjoyed as a minor staffer at the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe National Party gives tautoko to this amendment, albeit at the first reading, and as my learned colleagues Willis and Woodhouse observed, there is some caution associated with this support. Political pressure and the risk of lobbying from other portfolio Ministers is real over time, particularly those with scale infrastructure responsibilities that have some poor yield and other return characteristics, and it could become more pronounced through the proposed pathway, so transparency around inter-ministerial communications is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ERaiding of the MallowPuff jar should not be encouraged\u2014using the Superannuation Fund as merely trigger capital for pet projects or life-saver capital for failed projects. Whilst spending quality time as a seeker, \u00E0 la Harry Potter and the golden snitches at the Guardians of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund in the Zurich building in downtown Auckland, I had the phenomenal opportunity to meet some exemplary and sometimes quirky people. It is the likes of Matt Whineray, who now leads the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation Fund, that this amendment eloquently\u2014very eloquently\u2014speaks to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ELook, the risk of bailout expectations is an important concern that we\u2019ve referred to and alluded to, particularly on reputational grounds. From my own experience in observing the Superannuation Fund over time, it is acutely aware of those responsibilities of preserving the international and the domestic reputation of the Guardians of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund across the investor landscape, but I implore all members to be cautious around this and also demonstrate an ultimate curiosity for the potential that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund brings to our direct investment landscape, and that, as my role as a curator of deals that didn\u2019t exist, was particularly a focus of mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI\u2019m mindful also of the legendary Minister of Finance Bill English and his ministerial directive to the guardians many years ago\u2014when I was a young man in T\u0101maki-makau-rau\u2014to identify and consider opportunities to increase the allocation of New Zealand assets in the fund, but not to be inconsistent with the duty, that important fundamental duty of the guardians, to invest in a prudent and commercial manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThose parameters, as articulated so brilliantly by the former Prime Minister Bill English as the Minister of Finance at the time, continue to be extant in our environment today. Those New Zealand opportunities will likely expand if this type of amendment carries through to the other side, and I would have thoroughly enjoyed\u2014in my time at the Guardians of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014the opportunity to interrogate and understand the Dunedin Hospital investment. That would have been absolutely marvellous and I could have attended Dunedin far more often, running up Baldwin Street and enjoying the cooler weather of Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, my rumblings are exhausted here; my murmurings are over. However, let\u2019s cautiously proceed so that the select committees can see the sunlight and not get caught in the verbal shadows. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a69d46001dda48d4bb29c3cfd6fd92e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a69d46001dda48d4bb29c3cfd6fd92e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m enjoying the tone of this debate, the references to Baldwin Street, Dunedin Hospital, and, of course, the Superannuation Fund. It is good to debate with members and I look forward to hearing around the House how different parties approach this. It\u2019s good to see the tentative support from across the House, at least to the select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI am very confident that the concern expressed by members opposite around independence is covered off in this bill quite explicitly, and appropriately so. It is incredibly important that this fund acts independently, that it is independent from political influence, and when that\u2019s laid down in statute, it becomes incredibly clear and sacrosanct. So the bill itself does not alter the guardians\u2019 independence from political influence in relation to investment decisions. I just think that needs to be stated clearly and on record. That\u2019s provided for in section 64(2) of the Act, for any members that want to check that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s very much a story of then and now that we\u2019re looking at today. When the fund was established in 2001, the rationale for the control restriction was that the fund\u2019s purpose was to get exposure to investments and not to own businesses for itself. And, of course, it has been very successful in that regard. It has won numerous international awards, and one only has to go and visit the guardians\u2019 website to see the lists of awards that it\u2019s won, including a lot of global recognition for outstripping the performance of other sovereign wealth funds around the world. It\u2019s done extraordinarily well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut when it was established, it hadn\u2019t, of course, established that track record of performance. That only came over time as it invested, did so successfully, and demonstrated its ability to do that year after year. It\u2019s also true that the environment\u2019s changed. When the fund was established originally, it was very uncommon for sovereign wealth funds to take a direct controlling interest in investments. But that\u2019s changed\u2014the practice around that has changed. And, of course, as the fund itself has matured in size, in capacity, it\u2019s grown, it\u2019s shown itself to be a very prudent investor, has got those returns that will ensure New Zealand\u2019s future superannuation is provided for as was intended, and has done that, I think, in a way that has outstripped all expectations, and we need to acknowledge that in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EInterestingly, Michael Woodhouse brought this up earlier in the debate, anticipating that it would be spoken about\u2014the very fact that National in 2009 suspended payments to this fund. On the guardians\u2019 website, they have done the calculation of how much bigger this fund would have been had the National Party invested through their time as Labour Governments had, and the fund itself would be $28.6 billion larger if the National Party had continued to make contributions, such is the extraordinary return that they\u2019ve made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a426e97bea4646e18e434148e78a161f\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b2ab9f134ae4da0822a76fdd71b9f6d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: $28.6 billion larger had the National Party continued to contribute. But that\u2019s the kind of thing that makes them nervous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAnd we heard it from ACT over there, who were very much of a view that we shouldn\u2019t be investing on behalf of New Zealanders; we should be only investing as individuals, despite all evidence to the contrary in terms of the value of the investment and the returns that have been achieved. I think, certainly in the ACT Party\u2019s case, we can see that that\u2019s just ideological claptrap\u2014don\u2019t let the facts get in the way of a good story!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut I am pleased to see National tentatively supporting this. I encourage them to support it right the way through, because it is a policy that benefits all New Zealanders and it is a good thing when a bill like this gets support across the House. We want that long-term investment. We want our citizens to benefit from the provisions that are made and from the extraordinary returns that the Superannuation Fund has secured over the years and, I\u2019m confident, will continue to secure in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other points to make before I close. The beauty of having a controlling stake in organisations such as is proposed in this bill is that the fund will have more flexibility, thus giving it the propensity to have even greater returns and also to influence ESG factors as well in their reporting\u2014they can influence environmental, social, and governance things that are in the wider national interest too, and that would be terrific to see. There are many more reasons to support this bill, but my time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u002216b59d62f8834a1eafbdbd76b630a9fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b59d62f8834a1eafbdbd76b630a9fe\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise and\u2014I\u2019m not going to turn this into an economics lesson, I promise\u2014speak in support of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. Actually, maybe it is an economics lesson, because I\u2019ve been listening to the debate and I was really heartened as somebody who, hopefully, is around long enough to take advantage of the wise investment decisions made by the guardians in years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI was really pleased to hear about the curiosity and engagement across the House as we recognise the maturity of the guardians and their governance capability, and how we can best enable the opportunities that arise from that as well as mitigating any potential risks. As we\u2019ve heard earlier, we believe that both sides of that coin are very much addressed in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI was heartened, and then I was gobsmacked to hear that the ACT Party not only want to stop contributions\u2014which will cost, potentially, billions and billions of dollars\u2014but actually they quite clearly state that they oppose the existence of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and just \u201CGood luck, everybody.\u201D I think it speaks volumes about their commitment, or lack of, to looking after the way we do our social contracts with each other in order to look after each other in our retirement. So I\u2019m very proud to be able to speak in support of this legislation, because we believe, on this side of the House\u2014and, I believe, on the other side of the House\u2014that this is a really, really important part of our social fabric and how we look after each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about the why, now. As Treasury has noted, the guardians\u2019 governance has evolved in line with the super fund investment capability over the years to provide effective oversight of really complex investment strategies, and that\u2019s been recognised recently in an independent review done by Willis Towers Watson. So we\u2019re really, really clear about the why. Things are very, very different from when the Superannuation Fund was established and the guardians first set off on their journey to do what they do\u2014as we see now\u2014quite, quite well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis expansion\u2014so why? This expansion of their tool kit enables a lot of opportunities. Their value proposition is quite unique. Their endowments, long-term investment horizon\u2014which does open up different opportunities\u2014their ability to tolerate a liquidity crunch, and the fund\u2019s sovereign status means that their opportunities are much greater, and this bill will enable those opportunities to be taken. I look forward to seeing it progress to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed8e69a4446f4a12bca70cde8aefa980\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed8e69a4446f4a12bca70cde8aefa980\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Speaker. An absolute pleasure to rise to speak on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill first reading. We\u2019ve heard a range of comments this afternoon in regards to this bill, and I\u2019m going to spend a little bit of time outlining a few of the areas that we\u2019ve observed will need to be explored as this progresses through the select committee process. As our shadow finance spokesperson and deputy leader, Nicola Willis, has articulated, National are supporting this bill cautiously through to select committee. That is for a variety of reasons that we will canvas as we go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere was one reference from a prior speaker that did rise my eyebrows, and that was that \u201Cone can\u2019t be apolitical in regards to the management of investments\u201D. How timely that comment is\u2014quite an insight into the context that, actually, it\u2019s impossible for someone to be apolitical. Well, we\u2019ll just leave that for Kiwis to have a think about whether they believe that or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to this legislation, it\u2019s quite interesting in terms of that fact that we\u2019ll need to provide the ability for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to be able to take a controlling interest in regards to investments. This is a long-term investment fund\u2014primarily, in the nature; in terms of its investments, it\u2019s passive. The reality of what we\u2019re looking at here is for the Superannuation Fund to be able to take primarily more active fund investments and controlling interests, which basically means that they have the power and the ability to influence that and decisions through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI think the question and the issue that this particularly raises is in regards to having a clear governance situation. What I mean by that is that one of the challenges\u2014and I\u2019m sure that this will be thought through in the select committee phase\u2014is how do we ensure that the impartiality that is implied in regards to investments where the Superannuation Fund does have a controlling interest, because that impartiality is one of the key pillars of good, strong corporate governance. One of the concerns, rightly so, by Kiwis is that when the Crown has the ability to have a controlling influence, then impartiality is very much a real risk and real issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESome of the considerations around how to mitigate that\u2014whether that is through having no management roles on the entities in which the Superannuation Fund invest in, having no management influence, or even going to the point where the Superannuation Fund ensures there are independent board members that are in there or actually an independent majority on the board. I think all of those considerations around governance separation do need to be considered through this, and I\u2019m confident the select committee, through feedback from experts and across the sector, will take into account some of those key components.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E Because it is important, and political influence is real. I mean, if you give a scenario of, say, the Superannuation Fund was looking at undertaking an offshore wind farm investment, for example, and the Minister for the Environment came along and said, \u201CWell, you know, I really want this to tick a couple of boxes on my priorities and promises.\u201D\u2014I mean, hypothetical, of course, but you can see where the element of political influence may drive a decision. And the prior speaker over there referred to it before. He said, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, it\u2019s in the legislation that there needs to be prudent commercial basis.\u201D Well, the challenge with the word \u201Ccommercial\u201D, when you\u2019ve got 100 percent Crown ownership, is there\u2019s a little bit of a contradiction between those two points, you see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe point that, actually, the Crown is commercial is a long bow\u2014it\u2019s a long bow to draw. So prudent commercial basis when the Crown has a 100 percent stake is where there is an issue, and I think the select committee needs to work through that and ensure that we have confidence that those safeguards that have been highlighted by the other side of the House actually in reality will result in ensuring that that impartiality is maintained in terms of clear separation between the investment vehicle, which is a New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and the management and the board that actually executes the strategic direction of the company in which the Superannuation Fund will hold a controlling interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI think the other aspect which is interesting is if you look at significant sovereign wealth funds globally, it is right that many of those globally have the ability to take controlling interests within investments. The legislation that surrounds a number of those sovereign wealth funds is different, and I think part of the job of the select committee is going to be undertaking a bit of a scan globally and internationally in terms of the safeguards around the same type of funds in other jurisdictions to ensure that we\u2019ve got the right, I guess, riverbanks in place to avoid the boat getting grounded. But that is important because having the right controls in place there is going to mitigate a lot of the risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe point around what you\u2019re seeing with these sovereign wealth funds is quite a significant flow in terms of the ratio of investments that are under active investment. So that\u2019s basically those that have fund managers that are making more active day-to-day decision-making in terms of those investments versus those that are passive. And you\u2019re seeing very much a flow from active to passive. So while this aspect is looking more at the active side of that, there is a bit of an element and it\u2019s probably not drawing too far out of piece to say that, actually, there is a potential for a little bit of distraction within the Superannuation Fund\u2014that shiny investment, that shiny business over there; let\u2019s get involved and let\u2019s invest in that, and let\u2019s chase that car for a while, when, actually, the reality of this sovereign wealth fund is it is a long-term passive fund and it takes a minimum of a 30-year investment horizon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t want the fund to get distracted by the shiny car driving past and chase that, because we know already, as was highlighted when the Superannuation Fund came to the select committee, that they paid out about $16.2 million of performance bonuses last year when the fund dropped in value by 7 percent. Don\u2019t get me wrong, performance bonuses for high performance are appropriate in a commercial environment, but when you pay every single one of your staff members\u2014100 percent of the staff got a bonus for performance when the fund went backwards by 7 percent, and it actually went from $16.2 million, and the prior year was $9.4 million, and the average between the last four years was $26.4 million and $9.4 million. It went from $9.4 million to $16 million in one year and the CEO got a 40 percent pay rise in 12 months. Maybe I\u2019m the only one that\u2019s thinking, \u201CWell, we just need to be a little bit cautious in terms of giving these guys a little bit more rope.\u201D, because what that indicates to me is when you give them rope, they are quite willing to use that in a way in which it derives benefits. So I think that\u2019s just a little bit of context that adds to that conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other aspect in the time that we\u2019ve got\u2014gee, there\u2019s not much time to go, Mr Speaker. Maybe we have a little bit longer, but maybe we\u2019re not going back to the second reading today. The other aspect that we want to\u2014I think it was raised by the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who raised a good point. It was in terms of having a look at this in the context of ACC\u2014because ACC, of course, is our other investment fund, with a long-term investment horizon. And I would expect that the select committee will also look at other similar legislations. That will be the Crown Entities Act 2004, section 100, for those that are reading the legislation at home while they\u2019re watching the speech. But let\u2019s see where the select committee goes. And, as I say, we\u2019ll be cautiously supporting this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022aadcf81c8cdb4146becb7621ca8185dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aadcf81c8cdb4146becb7621ca8185dd\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to be the final speaker for the Government in support of this very important bill, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. In my short contribution, we have heard from across the House support for this bill at the first reading, and we\u2019ve also heard from our Minister of Finance, who has outlined this New Zealand Superannuation Fund (NZSF), and the New Zealand Superannuation Fund has significantly matured in size and capability in the operating model. What this bill does, is Part 1 of the bill amends section 59 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 to allow the Guardians of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to take a controlling interest in an entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes a number of other amendments to ensure that an investment by the fund does not result in any entity being treated as part of the Crown and subject to obligations that were designed for public-sector organisations. In Part 2, it also makes consequential amendments to the Ombudsmen Act so that the Act and the Official Information Act do not apply to any private-sector subsidiaries in which the guardians may hold a controlling interest, while preserving those Acts\u2019 application to the guardians itself and the Income Tax Act to address the removal of references to fund investment vehicles and to preserve the current tax treatment of the NZSF investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EAnd we\u2019ve heard that the guardians\u2019 governance\u2014who have been entrusted with this role, who are skilled individuals with business acumen, and who are independent of the Government and politicians\u2014have followed due diligence in the operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ENow, just to end off, I am not a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, but I have every confidence that the members will initiate a transparent process in terms of hearing from the public and in terms of the submissions that are put forward, and they will be able to hear the recommendations by the different contributions to carry out the work, because we want good returns for the long-term investments for New Zealanders with this fund. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022875bf7395ca34f178f28293b6ca2fb18\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000311\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022377262cc66f0476d91502539cceed996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022377262cc66f0476d91502539cceed996\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c520591cdde47fcbc4c6b5f96467260\u0022\u003EForests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b80ed97cd491422cb9ca51fdb6aa0712\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000317\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 8 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022860601792eee4141ac74896ea5cd4128\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022860601792eee4141ac74896ea5cd4128\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill. Can I begin by congratulating the Primary Production Committee and their former chair Jo Luxton for their excellent work on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe objective of the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill is to establish a legal harvest system to assist in combatting global trade in illegally harvested timber, to safeguard and enhance market access for New Zealand timber exporters, and to assure the legality of the source of timber imported into New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs the member for Nelson, I just want to make the point that forestry is a very large part of the Nelson economy. It is important that it is protected for those who work in the industry in my region. This bill is also the right thing to do. Illegally harvested timber has an enormous impact on the environment. It has an impact on our biodiversity. It has a big impact on species who lose their homes when forestry is illegally harvested, meaning that species often lose the places where they have established themselves, and that can have an enormous impact on species loss across the world. It also has an impact on communities. There are human rights issues. There are issues in terms of access to economic development that occur in those areas. And one in particular that is important to my community is the community of Myanmar, where I visited, and where there is illegally harvested teak timber. And I know that it is an issue that people in Nelson, former refugees from Myanmar, care deeply about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is an excellent bill. It has been well looked at by the select committee with some excellent changes made to it, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022620a7a92d5ca4a8dab6019f9cf8c26b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022620a7a92d5ca4a8dab6019f9cf8c26b6\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill, and it is what it says on the tin. It provides a legal harvest assurance system for forestry and the wood-processing sector, and it\u2019s supposed to strengthen the integrity and resilience of the commercial supply chain. The Green Party is supporting it, but, as I said in the first reading, the bill is a lost opportunity because of its very limited scope, its narrow focus on timber products, and its lack of ambition in protecting the diversity of life in our forests from the scourge of deforestation and illegal logging, whether that is for timber or for other products like palm kernel expeller, or to convert those tropical forests into palm oil plantations, or whether it is to deforest to convert them into soya plantations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is not represented on the Primary Production Committee, and this bill is a real representation of why we need more Green MPs, so that we can cover all select committees fully and so that we can improve on legislation, because this bill is outdated. It was first promoted by a former Labour Minister\u2014Pete Hodgson\u201418 years ago, under the fifth Labour Government. The world has moved on since then, and both the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) and the Government policy which is expressed in this bill haven\u2019t caught up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is far too timid, given the huge scale of deforestation in tropical and temperate forests and the urgent need for action. As in 2021, a mere 9 percent of the world\u2019s forests remained intact\u2014just 9 percent. So, as others have said, the scale of illegal logging is enormous, and it\u2019s doing immense harm to the lungs of the planet in places like the Amazon, to forests themselves, to plants, to wildlife, and to the indigenous communities that depend on forests for food and for their livelihoods, and as their home. It\u2019s destroying the planet\u2019s lungs and it\u2019s destabilising our climate, and illegal logging contributes to corruption and criminal activity, it helps support corrupt Governments, and it means humans suffer and nature suffers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe have in Aotearoa a history of forest destruction and loss, and maybe because of that we are late to regulate illegal logging. In terms of the United States, it has had law banning illegal timber and the trading in it since 1900. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill could have looked at what the European Union is doing. The European Union has recently had its environment Ministers pass regulation which both prohibits the placing of illegally logged timber products in the market, and is much more extensive in addressing legal and illegal deforestation and is much more expansive in the scope of the product that it requires to be legally harvested. This bill should include things like soya, cocoa, chocolate, beef, leather\u2014all commodities which can lead to deforestation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe departmental disclosure statement said that MPI consulted with environmental NGOs. They raised these concerns. The Green Party raised these concerns last term, in 2019-20, when the bill and legislation was being discussed. Those concerns and the need to widen it to these other products which cause deforestation were not heeded, nor were they heeded in submissions. We had submissions from Environment and Conservation Organisations of Aotearoa, Greenpeace, and our Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society, all highlighting the need for having a more expansive bill for it to do anything serious about deforestation. While the select committee did make a number of changes, it has kept the bill firmly focused on timber products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other issues with the bill is that the definition of legality is too narrow. There is no recognition and requirement in terms of the definition of legality that the indigenous people and local communities should have provided free and prior informed consent to any logging. It does refer to property rights in clause 77, I think, but it doesn\u2019t provide that assurance that there has been consent by indigenous peoples and local communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill relies quite heavily on a due diligence system for an assurance that timber has been legally logged. One of the issues with these due diligence systems and requiring those that are doing the logging to have such a system in place is that they often rely on certification systems such as the Forest Stewardship Council system\u2014they potentially allow illegal timber to be mixed with timber that\u2019s been legally logged. So it\u2019s not going to be totally watertight in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut one of the big issues is that the variety of life on the planet depends on healthy nature. Healthy forests are our lungs, and yet this bill is only focusing on timber, not the variety of other commodities\u2014palm oil, soya beans, cocoa, chocolate, coffee, rubber\u2014that we need to regulate to ensure that they are being legally managed and that they are not coming from areas that have been deforested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, yes, it\u2019s good that Pete Hodgson\u2019s original ideas are finally being implemented, but we could have followed international practice in the EU, could have been much more expansive, and could have done something serious to really restrain and prevent deforestation of our tropical and temperate forests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill also covers log exports. How can we, when we\u2019ve had such extensive damage being caused by forestry in Aotearoa, in Tai R\u0101whiti, with all of that slash that has ended up on beaches, on farms and crops that at this moment is legally allowed\u2014this bill doesn\u2019t do anything to actually improve the regulation of forest management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddc31b7ef2114cfa941debf83752f6a9\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not meant to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b2c5fdea0c4a9995564f98f54ce29d\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr McClay says it\u2019s not meant to, but it\u2019s just showing how weak the legislation is that we can export those logs. The system can provide an assurance to importers overseas like China, where the bulk of our export logs go, that they\u2019ve all been legally harvested. Yet, there is huge devastation that has been caused to communities throughout Tair\u0101whiti, from poorly managed harvested logs where you\u2019ve had whole hillsides that are cleared, slash left behind in huge quantities, and that is still legal and they can be exported with the assurance that this is all being done legally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s an urgent need to improve our own forest management and regulation under the National Environmental Standards for Plantation Forestry and under the Resource Management Act because, at the moment, the damage that that slash causes is legal and it doesn\u2019t face any penalties under this proposed regime. So the bill is a slight improvement on the status quo, but it won\u2019t do anything serious to actually prevent deforestation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00224b07074d7cb0431bb92025631fec869d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b07074d7cb0431bb92025631fec869d\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I\u2019m speaking here this afternoon on behalf of ACT MP Mr Mark Cameron, who sits on our Primary Production Committee. The ACT Party will be supporting this bill. We\u2019ve heard from submitters who have pointed out some flaws, some potential issues that need to be resolved, and so when this bill gets to the committee of the whole House stage, we\u2019ll have questions for the Minister and we\u2019ll be seeking further answers from officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand\u2019s forestry industry is our fourth-largest primary sector export earner, creating over $6 billion in revenues for the fiscal year 2020-21. The operational certainty, the integrity of the supply chain for forestry operators, for investors, and for their customers, both domestically and internationally, is vitally important to New Zealand, to our economy, and to those communities which absolutely depend on forestry for their income as well as for other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAs noted by previous speakers, such as the Hon Eugenie Sage, this bill does create a legal framework to help futureproof the legal harvest of timber products, although this bill has taken a long time to get to this stage. However, the original problem that the bill was designed to solve\u2014how can we be confident that the timber products that we purchase from the local merchant or that a builder supplies on to our project or into our home have been harvested in a way, and from a place, which meets a minimum level of environmental and socially responsible outcomes? So the ACT Party supports this bill, but we also want to raise some of the issues that submitters identified. There is an overlap with other regulation, such as the log traders regulation, which was introduced through the forest advisers amendment bill last year, and that may create some confusions between those administering the bill and all of those involved in the forestry industry who are tasked with submitting to the regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s where the ACT Party differs from the Green Party in many ways. We heard from the Hon Eugenie Sage a very passionate articulation of the concerns that many of us have about the way timber is harvested, particularly in developing countries. If we think about the Asia-Pacific region, where large trees are taken from environments where threatened species live like Borneo, where I recently travelled, where species like sun bear, like orang-utan, like pygmy elephants\u2014habitats are threatened by the removal of forest and the conversion of that land to other uses. So it is vitally important that we do have a regime which protects the habitat of places that those communities identify as special to them in the same way as in New Zealand we identify those habitats like national parks, for example, those places that are so special to us that we wouldn\u2019t allow the trees to be harvested from those places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut where ACT differs from parties like the Green Party is that we don\u2019t think the regulation that applies to dealing with a specific problem like harvesting trees from tropical places should also be applied to drinking cocoa, for example, or the oil that ends up in our two-minute noodles. There is such a thing as regulatory overreach and an excess of red tape, and I think we heard the Hon Eugenie Sage articulate a vision that the Green Party has that the ACT Party fundamentally disagrees with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut there are some economic issues that are raised by illegal forest harvesting, particularly in developing countries, that we don\u2019t necessarily face here in New Zealand, and it\u2019s where communities are forced to make terrible choices, where they\u2019re faced with wicked problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt may well be because they have a less transparent democracy than New Zealand has, where the incentives to do bad things are much greater than the incentive to do good. So if a community is faced with choices between \u201CWell, there\u2019s some illegal logging going on, but that provides income; that provides resources for other things that we do, like building homes, for example, in our community, and maybe some of that timber is exported and we get cash for it\u201D, but the alternative is \u201CWell, imagine if we could actually exploit our natural resources, like through mining, for example, or oil and gas\u201D\u2014that many countries like the province of Sabah in Malaysian Borneo, where I visited recently, do have access to. If the option was to say, \u201CWell, we could exploit those resources and generate wealth from those activities, then instead of this incentive to cut down old-growth forest and destroy the habitat of those threatened species, we could actually use the money we earn from developing our other natural resources, to protect that land and to give better economic and social opportunities to our people\u201D\u2014so, while the legislation we\u2019re debating today provides for certification of timber, particularly from places where we might be concerned it\u2019s not sustainably harvested, causing severe damage to the environment through those practices, the fundamental problem that this bill attempts to address is that, in those countries, the economic incentives are skewed, because, in many cases, local people cannot benefit from the development of their natural resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why, when we think about New Zealand, the great opportunities that we have through our natural resources, whether it\u2019s minerals that lie under the conservation estate, in what\u2019s called the Schedule 4 lands, or those lands that were dumped into the conservation estate in 1987, during the reform of the State-owned enterprises, those lands that should be available for development of our natural resources\u2014or whether it\u2019s our oil and gas resources, which New Zealand has a bounty of but which the current Government has decided to make off limits through banning exploration offshore for oil and gas and, more recently, stopping the issuing of any more onshore permits. So, while this bill addresses a significant and real problem of where timber is harvested and how do we know that it\u2019s been harvested in a way that is sustainable and protects the economic and social interests of the communities where that timber is taken from, also this bill underlines that there is a much more significant problem, not just for developing countries that have orang-utans but also for countries that still would like to consider themselves First World, like New Zealand, must address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EConcerns were raised by submitters about the size and the scale of the bureaucracy\u2014the red tape this would impose on their industry\u2014particularly for small forestry plot holders, who might have invested in a forestry block potentially as a future retirement income or a nest egg. They are not typically managing the forest on a daily basis; they\u2019re certainly not involved in its logging and its marketing. They leave that to independent forest managers, and many of them pointed out that, by the time they have paid for certification for their small forestry block, they may well be barely in a break-even position. So any legislation that this House passes must also take account of the red tape and the cost on small business and small land owners. There\u2019s about 14,000 of those small forest owners in New Zealand, whose economic sustainability may be put at risk through excessive red tape and regulation. So ACT will be continuing to focus on that when we consider the subsequent stages of the bill. However, other submitters have pointed out, in fact, that there are many jurisdictions we supply timber to, like Japan and others, which have a range of regulatory standards that we are required to meet in order satisfy the demands of that market, and so we should be prepared to accept some additional certification and controls so that they can be sure that timber harvested in New Zealand has not come from a place that it was not lawfully taken from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo, look, this bill appears to be complex, but it certainly has a fundamental rationale\u2014a problem-solving piece of legislation that ACT will get behind and support. ACT will support this bill. We will be voting for its second reading. We\u2019ll have plenty of questions for the Minister and officials at the committee of the whole House stage, but we do support its intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6d03589503841cea1f537a33b1193b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6d03589503841cea1f537a33b1193b1\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill, not least because I spent many, many summers in the Rai Valley and in Havelock on my grandfather\u2019s sawmill. There\u2019s a long history with distant relatives, who may be Brownlees, who have, for generations, worked really hard in the forestry sector in the Pelorus and Rai Valleys. I acknowledge those pioneers who worked so hard. It is really interesting to be in the House today and continue to do what we can to support our forestry industry, which we\u2019ve already heard about being so important and so valuable, to be progressive and continue to be world-leading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is important for two reasons. It is about ensuring that our trade agreements and our trading partners\u2014we keep up and we make sure that we can hold our heads high on the international stage. But it also means that we are contributing to that global network and the attempts globally to do better\u2014as we\u2019ve heard, we must do much better to protect our planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about the Primary Production Committee submissions. It was a great process to be a part of. We got expertise at the table and they really helped us to grapple with the complexities and make sure that we could look to those global challenges, but also make sure that we didn\u2019t forget the implications for our local forestry sector. They helped us to streamline, to strengthen, and to give some coherence to the issues in front of us and the bill. We heard about the need to align with other pieces of legislation, and I believe we managed to do that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00229868dda1dba14057a4579c6b06e55898\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229868dda1dba14057a4579c6b06e55898\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and a happy Thursday afternoon to everyone in this House. I rise to stand and speak in support of the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill at the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a9a29215e34f7bbe76a7670a9594c6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, reading\u2019s getting better!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f664cacf93944ad68e0fe22f81a7e6c1\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Now, we know\u2014I just wanted to get the bill right, Kieran. I think I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2cf520d2bf74f67a0a8ea01665605a9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You nailed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea07372d35ea499b9cba824f9ed27671\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c373327b7c4f5b9e06122602488db8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We use full names in the House, please, Mr Uffindell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376a28149f4a452993b09af4f63e677d\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly\u2014the Hon Kieran McAnulty. I wanted to make sure I got the bill right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ENow, we know that illegal harvesting\u2019s been a problem and we\u2019ve seen the degradation that\u2019s occurred in many parts of the world. Simon Court, before, was talking about his wonderful trip to Borneo and all of the issues he\u2019d seen there. We all would have seen and heard stories about rainforests and forests which have been felled, causing significant devastation to the ecosystems and the cultural and societal aspects there. New Zealand is not immune from that. We have a significant forestry sector here in New Zealand. I think it\u2019s our fourth-biggest exporter, about $6.3 billion, and we do import a considerable amount of timber as well\u2014if my memory serves me correctly, 2.35 billion from June 2021. So the thing to note there is that it is sizable and that does increase the risks that we face. So it is good that we are in agreement on this, in that we are wanting to put in safeguards to ensure that harvesting of timber products is done in an ethical manner, and ensuring that the supply chains involved are all acting appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Forests Act 1949 to establish a new regulatory system, which assists in the prevention of international trade in internationally illegally harvested timber, and strengthens the international reputation through doing so. We need to safeguard and enhance our market aspect. As we have kept talking about on a number of different things, it is important for New Zealand to make sure that it\u2019s doing its part to uphold ethics and make sure that supply chains are fair and equitable, to make sure that illegally sourced timber is not exported from New Zealand, and, just as importantly, is not imported into New Zealand. So this amendment to the bill will help address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EForestry, as I\u2019ve noted, is a key part of the New Zealand economy, and this bill will help reinforce the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s timber as a legally sourced product on the international market. The National Party supports this. We abhor illegal forestry activities. We worked and we did support this through to the Primary Production Committee. I wasn\u2019t on that select committee, but I understand that it did work well and everyone noted the key points and we did support it through, and that\u2019s why we are supporting it at the second reading. That is all I have to say on this matter. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00220e0c84494f3f4bf2a8ae55be8467f7da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e0c84494f3f4bf2a8ae55be8467f7da\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to take a call in support of this piece of legislation that we seem to have a lot of collegial support across the House for\u2014for very good reasons. This is something that\u2019s really appalling that we have put up with for so long\u2014the bringing in of wood and the sending out of wood, without really any restrictions. And we will be in line with a whole lot of APEC economies\u2014Australia, the United States, Indonesia, the Republic of Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and China\u2014when we do this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re bringing in is the introduction of a legal harvest assurance system, and so everybody will know where that outdoor table comes from. And Simon Court\u2019s quite right: it\u2019s going to protect a lot of wildlife, it\u2019s going to be a better option for people, and it\u2019s going to be a big step towards making sure that we are environmentally sound in our choice of products. And I for one will be greatly relieved for that, because it is, as Simon Court has said, a pressure on people in other economies if this is a source of funding for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s very important that we actually support these kinds of standards so it is actually something that becomes a brand issue for people so that they\u2019re actually supporting the harvesting of wood in a proper way in those economies and, in fact, in our own, because it\u2019s going to be important to our brand, too, that we are actually abiding by these kinds of systems ourselves. So, with that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u002216a4b2d6e1fd498aa5857aa9f33c6ae3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216a4b2d6e1fd498aa5857aa9f33c6ae3\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Fakaalofa lahi atu, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a call, albeit a short call, on this, the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill\u2014I also wanted to make sure I got that right. It is a short call because this is a no-brainer\u2014really good to get agreement across the House that this is a no-brainer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EEssentially, this bill is about ensuring Aotearoa New Zealand only trades in legally harvested timber. That\u2019s it in essence, right? This is also about supporting the international efforts to kerb the trade in illegally harvested timber. This bill does that in a few ways, and we\u2019ve heard a few of those today, but I will go through it again. One of those is having that registration system for exported, primary processors, importers, and log traders. This is also about providing thresholds and exemptions, especially for those smaller entities as well. This is about requiring registered parties to have due diligence systems to check that timber has been legally harvested. This is also about making sure that we have people\u2014that our forest owners and their agents make sure that they have the right paperwork, so providing those harvest information statements to those buyers and keeping good records.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EThis is a no-brainer. We\u2019ve heard from many others\u2014who doesn\u2019t want to make sure that we\u2019re saving our forests? So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00223115eeac1c9e46e4b3a9412cd876331c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223115eeac1c9e46e4b3a9412cd876331c\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E The forestry industry in New Zealand is extremely important to us. In my area, and indeed around Taup\u014D where I grew up, forestry was such an important part of the local economy and remains so throughout New Zealand. It provides a huge number of jobs and investment for various people around the country, but also provides wood to our sawmills to add value so we can use it in New Zealand to build some of the houses the Government fails to build, but, at the same time, to export products with value added to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI just want to say, before I come directly to the bill, to the forestry sector that, actually, although there is an inquiry the Government has put in place, which I think is important, into what\u2019s happened along the Gisborne area, the coast, and down towards Napier, they remain important to us and we want to look constructively at how we can give assurance to those that live in those areas and elsewhere where there\u2019s forestry and, at the same time, make sure that the forestry sector knows they have a future in New Zealand and they remain important to us and they remain valued. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis legislation has much less to do with New Zealand and more to do with setting international standards. For a long time, it has been illegal to illegally harvest wood products in New Zealand native forests and so on, and our officials pay a lot of attention to this. So I don\u2019t think we do have a problem in New Zealand in respect of this, but that can\u2019t be said for every other part of the world\u2014countries that don\u2019t have the same regulatory regime or approach to sustainability of natural forests or native forests as we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat it does do for our forest owners or wood exporters is it gives them certainty that they won\u2019t face barriers or delays when their products are exported to other parts of the world, because, for them to leave these shores, they must be certified as sustainable and sustainable practices, as under this piece of legislation. We don\u2019t import a lot of wood into New Zealand that one might argue could fall within what is not allowed through this legislation, although there will be occasions or times when people want to add things to their decks or houses, where we could ask the question, \u201CHow do we know that the harvesting of this wood is sustainable and it hasn\u2019t harmed a natural environment?\u201D Well, a certificate would need to be produced for it to come to the country, so it gives us certainty, and that is an important thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not that long ago in this House where we came together and passed legislation\u2014well, actually, a previous Government\u2014when there was a great wood fall in the West Coast of the South Island following a storm event. Rather than it sit there and rot, the House passed a law to allow it to be harvested and to be used rather than to be wasted. In that case, it\u2019s important that this legislation recognises that there will be an occasion in time when a protected natural resource might well be used\u2014not cut down to be used, but used rather than being wasted, and whether or not under such circumstances that product can be exported or it must remain in New Zealand, and in the case that it must remain in New Zealand, that the practices of felling trees in New Zealand is not called into question as a result of that. You know, it\u2019s not sustainable for us to say if wood has fallen as a result of a natural event, that we can\u2019t use it because it\u2019s no longer planted. We should be able to use it where we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe support this legislation. It\u2019s an important step forward and tells our foresters we value the work that they do. Although, the inquiry will look at how we can better work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4e13132e2dd4cd8b663e64f0ba7610d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4e13132e2dd4cd8b663e64f0ba7610d\u0022\u003ESORAYA PEKE-MASON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is a short call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill. Interpol estimates the international trade in illicitly harvested timber is valued at between US$51 billion to $152 billion annually. It accounts for 15 to 30 percent of all timber traded globally. M\u0101ori own over 400,000 hectares of indigenous forest and some 238,000 hectares of planted exotic forest. These forests contribute significantly to M\u0101ori socio-economic development. M\u0101ori involvement in commercial forestry commenced over 50 years ago with the planting of pine forests under forestry leases involving the Crown, companies, and M\u0101ori landowners. Many of these forests are at a second rotation. M\u0101ori participation is moving from being principally a source of labour, to stronger commercial involvement. This is the reason why I support this bill in its second reading to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac1d2f7628c04368a64fedd1d4f3e4d1\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff59e81554bd4dfc80d3fbd1598413e9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1e9b12bde204fb9a2d74680f224be1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1e9b12bde204fb9a2d74680f224be1b\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE (Minister for Courts) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Justice: I present a legislative statement on the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d61db1dc87c344258df0d4f566d00fc8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09603e50d6042feb7f608a590a423ef\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Justice Committee for their work in considering this bill. They have recommended that it be passed with several amendments that I support in full. The committee received written submissions from 31 submitters, of whom 14 presented an oral submission. The submitters included the judiciary, professional organisations, iwi and their representatives, and interested groups and individuals. I want to thank those that made the effort to submit to the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to strengthening the family justice system, and this bill forms part of a long-term programme of change. An accessible Family Court that operates without undue delay is core to a functioning family justice system. In 2019, the independent panel examining the 2014 family justice sector reforms reported that the family justice system was not performing as it should, and that delay of resolution of cases in the Family Court was widespread. The Family Court deals with diverse issues, including family violence, relationship, property, and the care and protection of children. The effect of delays in the Family Court can therefore be wide-ranging and intersectional. In care of children proceedings, delay can mean that children do not have contact with non-custodial wh\u0101nau for significant periods of time, which can be detrimental to the wellbeing of tamariki and wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill responds to a specific issue identified by the independent panel: that the high administrative workload of judges contributes to delay. The panel subsequently recommended that a new position be established in the Family Court. This bill establishes the Family Court Associate to take some of the workload off the Family Court judges. By making more effective use of judges\u2019 time, this bill will reduce delay and assist in improving the process and experience of people participating in Family Court proceedings. A key feature of the role is that the Family Court Associate is a judicial officer who is independent from the executive. The bill already has some protections to ensure that the role is independent\u2014for example, they\u2019re appointed in the same way as judges, and their remuneration is independently set. The Justice Committee has recommended some changes to further protect their independence, which I\u2019ll discuss in more detail shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Family Court Associate will be able to undertake both tasks currently performed by registrars and some Family Court judges\u2019 workloads, including decisions made at the early stage of proceedings in interlocutory matters\u2014such as directing parties to undertake dispute resolution, making orders by consent, appointing lawyers, and convening settlement conferences. The role is balanced to ensure that matters that are complex\u2014or have a significant impact on people or human rights\u2014will remain with judges, including final decisions on guardianship and those that materially affect children. We want Family Court judges to have the ability to concentrate on progressing cases that can be traumatic for children through the court system, instead of focusing on administrative matters. The Family Court Associate will enable them to do just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee has recommended some refinements to the bill to assist in reducing delay and to ensure the powers held by the Family Court Associate are appropriately delegated and maintain the independence of the role. The revised bill strengthens the independence of the Family Court Associate by requiring the role to fall under the jurisdiction of the Judicial Conduct Commissioner and Judicial Conduct Panel Act. This will provide a more transparent process for complaints regarding the conduct of a Family Court Associate. In line with judges and coroners who are subject to the Act, Family Court Associates will have narrower grounds for removal. This means that a Family Court Associate could be removed by the Governor-General on the grounds of inability or misbehaviour or in accordance with the Judicial Conduct Commissioner and the Judicial Conduct Panel Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe revised bill also expands the immunity of a Family Court Associate to be the same as that of a judge. The purpose of judicial immunity is to promote the independence of the judiciary in decision making and ensure that any judicial powers can be fairly and efficiently exercised without the fear of sanction. This immunity is not defined in legislation but is generally understood to be broad immunity from civil and criminal proceedings when acting in their judicial role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBoth these changes preserve the independence of the court and enable Family Court Associates to exercise their power without fear or favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAlso included in the revised bill is a new clause requiring the Ministry of Justice to review whether the Family Court Associate role has assisted in reducing delays in the Family Court, and consider whether any amendments are desirable. This review will be undertaken five years after the commencement of the bill. I expect this review would also consider how the role has impacted on participants in the Family Court, including M\u0101ori, and this will ensure that we can assess whether the role is operating as intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESeveral more minor amendments have also been included in the revised bill. These amendments make small changes that will support the purpose and efficient operation of the role. They also ensure that tasks allocated to Family Court Associates are appropriate and that more significant or complex matters remain with a judge. Again, I\u2019d like to express thanks to the select committee for their amendments to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, introducing the Family Court Associate role is just one part of a long-term programme of change in the family justice system and one more step towards a system that is responsive to the needs of wh\u0101nau and ensures timely access to justice. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7045be13ef24ebfbeb790582ba55cf1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7045be13ef24ebfbeb790582ba55cf1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Penk, you were to take a call, but I think, given the time, we could leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de7fa8ab2a748e199b3a3c4e2f930f9\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was just wondering if we can get your guidance on a scenario in which the House would benefit from a full 10 minutes\u2019 worth of dissertation from me, but this is probably not the time of the week to hear it\u2014so I wonder, in such a situation, if you might consider looking to check in case it\u2019s ticked over to 4.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022674e998528ac4ac489b1456e38692bdf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Penk, I\u2019m sure that that would be a unanimous vote for the 10 minutes, were I to put it. However, to save the House the trouble, I will actually make a decision that we will avoid that and that I will now declare that the debate be interrupted and set down for resumption the next sitting day. So the House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 14 March 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230309e1a555e775ad48f38fe48eaa990b94bf000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"