"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6d6aefac0da4032a3dc8821af3bccba\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 30 MARCH 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1dc44464e2f4be99c2f655ba55c7a46\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 30 MARCH 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022034abc2724764d0ab0395e811abeba16\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227bab4b5bc0834b539fedfe12b00a5365\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002296e93b0d716046409edee82a32312ed2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296e93b0d716046409edee82a32312ed2\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f420e543b56240df9d57f5e2be48be65\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d4f2f1fb5004e97a91a8b5f82d9a60e\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022451a9b725e104daab4d3d24a0b776ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022451a9b725e104daab4d3d24a0b776ad5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the committee stage of Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u2014the annual review debate\u2014will begin with star appearances by the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Agriculture. Legislation to be considered next week will include the remaining stages of the Severe Weather Emergency Recovery Legislation Bill, the first reading of the all-important Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill, the second reading of the Grocery Industry Competition Bill, and the committee stage of the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. The first general debate of the year will take place on Wednesday, which will also be a members\u2019 day. At 5.30 p.m. on that day, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern will deliver her valedictory statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb8bfe6eda664fdb8cc9743f4c6ecde4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb8bfe6eda664fdb8cc9743f4c6ecde4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I thank the Leader of the House for that very fulsome update on what\u2019s going to happen next week. Can I also point out that Government order of the day No. 5 is in the name of an individual that I think you\u2019ll find is neither a Minister nor responsible at least for that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00227875cdd005844234b58f60e8fa0f9f0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227875cdd005844234b58f60e8fa0f9f0a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I note that point, and I\u2019m sure that by the time we get to Government order of the day No. 5, that will have changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022220fbb7b22e0441d9e10c6c7d147b960\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250c714c4862f41f2996869057473a85b\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002227b959d98bba4755a51677d7abdc5bb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227b959d98bba4755a51677d7abdc5bb7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022266bc9f712db4811b1cafed86ba49811\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022266bc9f712db4811b1cafed86ba49811\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Sabah Deniz Gulensoy requesting that the House ask the Government to grant temporary work visas to family and loved ones affected by the earthquakes in T\u00FCrkiye\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Marina Stewart requesting that the House counsel the New Zealand Police to station a police officer permanently in the twin townships of Opononi and \u014Cm\u0101pere\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Jodie Winterburn requesting that the House urge the Government to fund Gumboot Friday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a68f4b81a6b249f1aa2ab9c916a2d684\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a68f4b81a6b249f1aa2ab9c916a2d684\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00220688c1ead116498f94efc045f62afe53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220688c1ead116498f94efc045f62afe53\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2021-22 annual reports for the New Zealand Blood Service and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDepartment of Conservation, Land Information New Zealand, Long-term Insights Briefing March 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EController and Auditor-General, the Auditor-General\u2019s auditing standards 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002208ab152a9c904f1faa06cfbce04e4267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ab152a9c904f1faa06cfbce04e4267\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled New Zealand Defence Force: Resetting efforts to reduce harmful behaviour. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00225e53c3bbfc0e4b1dab82f8aa4bef1ef2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e53c3bbfc0e4b1dab82f8aa4bef1ef2\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECallaghan Innovation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECrown Infrastructure Partners Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EKordia Group Ltd, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Post Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Education and Workforce Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation, WorkSafe New Zealand, and on the report of the Ombudsman on Official Information Act (OIA) compliance and practice with the Accident Compensation Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Education, Education Review Office, New Zealand Qualifications Authority, Tertiary Education Commission, Education New Zealand, Education Payroll Ltd, Network for Learning Ltd, and on the report of the Ombudsman report on OIA compliance and practice in the Ministry of Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Environment Committee on the 2021-22 annual review of the Department of Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Productivity Commission, and briefing on the 2021-22 annual review of the Productivity Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Governance and Administration Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EFire and Emergency New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETaumata Arowai\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENational Emergency Management Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EOffice of Film and Literature Classification\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPublic Service Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EOffice of the Clerk of the House of Representatives, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EParliamentary Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECrown Law Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDepartment of Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EElectoral Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EJudicial Conduct Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ELaw Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EParliamentary Counsel Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPublic Trust, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESerious Fraud Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the 2021-22 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ERadio New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETelevision New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EBroadcasting Commission and New Zealand On Air\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry for Culture and Heritage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EArts Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EHeritage New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Film Commission, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe briefing on the 2021-22 financial performance of the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa Board, and the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ebriefing on the 2021-22 financial performance of the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c081492b5e75464c83aa539f28f364e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c081492b5e75464c83aa539f28f364e0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb4e6f8ac8ac4255a15c9d2c7c4df2a9\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267f11c73ed054acfa0d51278d6582ba3\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8c6ec818461481d985add458dddb50d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u002274e4a880bebd4a6a950f17ce27e4a7cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274e4a880bebd4a6a950f17ce27e4a7cc\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What additional support will be available for New Zealanders and their families from 1 April? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00226974d2e68acd4f2aabad99fa26d7c248\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226974d2e68acd4f2aabad99fa26d7c248\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Good news: I\u2019m pleased to advise the House that, from 1 April, 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive increased financial assistance. This includes those receiving a main benefit. This Government has made the largest increases in main benefits since the 1940s, including in Budget 2021, when we took the step of reversing the 1991 cuts to benefits. On 1 April, we will lift them again by the rate of inflation. This will mean a couple with children, on jobseeker support, will receive an extra $40.86 per week, and a sole parent will receive $31.83 through their main benefit. On average, since 2017, couples receiving a main benefit and raising children are better off by $256 per week under this Government, while a sole parent is $180 per week better off. I\u2019m proud of the work we\u2019ve done, but, as we\u2019ve always said, there\u2019s more to do, and we are laser-focused on delivering for all New Zealanders and getting the job done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e777a580320412b8974330141e815f4\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What will be available for older New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d34e6e4272746c0a5a14d4adb64a885\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not just main benefits that are rising; superannuation will be lifted by the rate of inflation as well, ensuring our older New Zealanders are not left behind. If you are a couple on superannuation, you will receive an extra $102.84 per fortnight. If you are single, living alone, and receiving superannuation, you\u2019ll receive $66.86 more per fortnight. These lifts to the incomes of our seniors will go a long way to combatting the global cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222caf3aa6646148d499cc8582743e979a\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What will working New Zealanders receive from 1 April?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d905cd4de2740f19f24f9b7b3ad4cf7\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yet more good news: the 59,500 workers earning minimum wage will all receive a wage rise from $21.20 per hour to $22.70 per hour. But that\u2019s not all: Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment research shows 222,900 workers will receive a pay rise as a direct result of the shift in minimum wage. This is especially important for M\u0101ori and young people\u201419 percent of people earning the minimum wage are M\u0101ori, while 61 percent are workers aged 16 to 24 years old. Alongside this, Working for Families will rise, meaning many working families will receive more each week, and the Government\u2019s pay equity agreement with community nurses will also come into force, meaning 8,000 community nurses will receive more from 1 April. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf8fbd3bdec4edd9011259a28ba6446\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be any more help available for main beneficiaries and superannuants? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc5995e0b5984e56817abd5d8ddf2415\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there will be. I\u2019m pleased to remind the House that the winter energy payment will come into force on 1 May. When we first came into Government, we recognised that older people and beneficiaries can sometimes have issues with the increased power costs during winter. This is why we introduced the payment. Also, yesterday in the House, we read the Child Support (Pass On) Acts Amendment Bill for the first time. We are on track to have this implemented by 1 July, and it will put more money in the pockets of over 41,000 sole parents. This is a Government which is delivering on our promise to lift incomes, reduce poverty, and tackle the cost of living crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224c35d50c6db4578b616ab3f011f3967\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that further interest deductibility changes also come into effect on 1 April, thus raising costs for landlords and putting more pressure on tenants, who are the collateral damage in this Government\u2019s war on landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235bd9ee767444e53990f81df7294494c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly can\u2019t confirm that, mostly because I don\u2019t have responsibility for that as the Minister for social development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d0305345cd74a0898339ed3bab00b93\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00220b0c222318484d8989f2a20d753558b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b0c222318484d8989f2a20d753558b7\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How many additional permanent and fixed-term full-time equivalent staff were employed by K\u0101inga Ora in December 2022 as compared with December 2019, and how many additional homes did K\u0101inga Ora manage in December 2022 as compared with December 2019?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002281556e944058496dbd8290546b2afa1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281556e944058496dbd8290546b2afa1c\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Associate Minister of Housing)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: On behalf of the Minister, I\u2019m advised that there were 1,361 additional staff and 4,628 additional homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eb84b5b0b274e018eba81f8f6a304ed\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify K\u0101inga Ora increasing its staff count by over 1,350 fulltime-equivalent staff in three years, an increase of 74 percent, when the number of homes managed in the same time period only increased by 7 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022135afe0217694080ae3f7e6168cc8f23\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0101inga Ora has been given a much broader mandate to help meet the Government\u2019s housing priorities. K\u0101inga Ora has transformed from a State house seller to a State house builder, to leading the largest urban regeneration ever undertaken in New Zealand. K\u0101inga Ora staff costs have been very stable as a proportion of total spend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b970b495b3544ee5bb69b08d0f242f38\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: How is K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s establishment of an additional 455 management positions between October 2019 and January 2023 not representative of a bureaucracy out of control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af84283703e843d4957e20f94fef3b5e\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: The increase in staff matches its vastly increased work programmes. The majority of the growth in staff has been in front-line teams that support customers and in the construction and urban development and planning areas. It is also delivering a range of new functions and accountabilities under the legislation. These include the teams which are helping drive the increase in housing supply and the large-scale urban regeneration of large-scale projects which will deliver up to 40,000 homes over the next 15 to 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6130a5ee0414791ac4680153c370593\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: When will her Government stop trying to compete with more efficient private developers by creating a bulging K\u0101inga Ora bureaucracy at the taxpayer\u2019s expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6073f06c9d43d0940cd775add11e7c\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my previous answers, and, I also add, K\u0101inga Ora people costs as a proportion of overall expenditure are declining and will continue to decrease over the next few years when balanced against the continued growth in houses built and developments completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa18939ddcfa45babb71b8ef14773d42\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002283a67025ca7e40f28f1779a65ee1b488\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283a67025ca7e40f28f1779a65ee1b488\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cin 2021, Stuart Nash\u2019s then ministerial office consulted the office of the then Prime Minister on an Official Information Act request release where that email had been identified as part of that release\u201D; if so, why was that request release escalated to the Prime Minister\u2019s office for consultation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00222215a2965d3c49b09c2070d2a53546d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222215a2965d3c49b09c2070d2a53546d3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Prime Minister: On behalf of the Prime Minister, to the first part of the question: yes. To the second part of the question: on occasion, ministerial staff provide information relating to Official Information Act requests to the Prime Minister\u2019s office on a no-surprises basis. I\u2019ve accepted the apology of the staff involved and believe this was an oversight. Staff in the Prime Minister\u2019s office deal with large volumes of information every day, and errors of judgment do occur. However, on behalf of the Prime Minister, I\u2019ve made my expectation clear and don\u2019t expect such an error to occur again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c97c851320a47c1a29401aa855e7df0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister really expect New Zealanders to believe that one of the most highly ranked members of staff in the Beehive was that ignorant of Cabinet rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562be2eecc014a04a1d1dbe3a78f9436\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Human error is something that occurs everywhere, including in the Beehive. The advisers receive significant amounts of documents that they need to wade through. Clearly a mistake was here\u2014they underestimated what was in front of them\u2014but it was an honest mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a193f2065232435097b9b628056d3261\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it, in fact, the case that this was not one bad decision by one staff member but part of a culture of cover-up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204753670dd484e49aa34f0fe34f84733\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb63c715927d409d9fa0bb5e5fb3bd50\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t the staff member involved\u2014with knowledge of the email\u2014come forward with it two weeks ago, when the Prime Minister sought assurances that there were no further breaches of the Cabinet Manual by Minister Nash?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfea097cd9a24886b4ed4de1bbf940d0\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I would be speculating with regards to answering that question. I can only assume that given the copious amounts of documents they\u2019ve had come through that it wasn\u2019t front of mind that that was an issue. They underestimated, at the time, the significance of what was in front of them. But it was an honest mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214f64d43f16041c5b1e0c4a3811ab89d\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it actually the case that the Prime Minister\u2019s office saw the email and, instead of doing the right thing, actively chose to cover it up by refusing to release it under the Official Information Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f9e7adf7ed1476c889c0d09adc04ab3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s absolutely not the case. I also will say that, ultimately, all Ministers have responsibility for signing off Official Information Act requests. We receive advice from advisers, but ultimately it is the Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef926251d8cb44f38030bb12c3d4971c\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Official Information Act request in question one from Newsroom that, on 8 June, requested all correspondence since 2020 between Minister Nash and his political donors, and, if so, why wasn\u2019t the email released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d6a02f1e96f4b90affad2c7a1124f9a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I believe, in response to the first part of the question, yes. In response to the second part of the question: ultimately, Ministers have to sign off Official Information Act requests, and that Minister at the time made the decision that it wasn\u2019t within scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808386aea95f46f49698c614795ceaf7\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Who decided it was out of scope: the Prime Minister\u2019s deputy chief of staff or Minister Nash?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022028f6146673340e888a49643598b1207\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers ultimately are responsible for signing off Official Information Act requests. That member knows that is the case. You can get advice from advisers, but ultimately it is the Minister\u2019s signature on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbd62f3c25047a3b7f86456945a7afc\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of consulting the Prime Minister\u2019s office if they don\u2019t have the ethics and understanding of Cabinet rules to urge Ministers to release information in compliance with the Official Information Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239b104179c48474f87341380c8a1d129\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of that question. The staff involved made a mistake and ultimately the Minister is responsible for signing off on Official Information Act requests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243e1183b8cd74553a16df6be6274f584\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t the Prime Minister taking this opportunity to front up and make it clear that this was an egregious breach of the Official Information Act which involved a conspiracy between a Minister\u2019s office and the Prime Minister\u2019s office to decide to hide information from the New Zealand public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7574952e094318894122eb56251a1d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A couple of things. I reminded members yesterday, and I\u2019ll remind them today, members might not like the question being asked but they are asked in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9f1c7e725cc4e12ae6043a177fd1846\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The member used the word \u201Cconspiracy\u201D. Speaker\u2019s Ruling 177/2 says that \u201CMembers can\u2019t make implications or imputations in questions that go to matters that could be interpreted as misconduct or corruption\u201D, and that seems to meet that test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da19e5b33eaa4ed18691bf155c93121f\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. My knowledge of the dictionary is such that I think a conspiracy is when people work together on an agreed strategy, and I did not use or imply corruption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237de1127861c4cb2abe92647afef0bee\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Mr Speaker, yesterday you admonished me and others in the House around interjecting and so on, and you made the point in doing so that you operate a different approach to questions, which I accept and understand that you allow questions to be asked, and if they\u2019re out of order or not within responsibility, then a person can get up and say that. What you saw from us was a reaction to that being taken to a series of questions involving unparliamentary language that also goes to the integrity of both MPs and also members of staff who cannot answer. I appreciate the style of chairing that you have, but I think what you saw was a response to the fact that we believe there has to be a limit, even for that, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b554c083ef03467a96a0932abdd135f3\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. Just to be helpful: \u201Cconspiracy\u201D, according to the Oxford Dictionary, is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa5818e6f014f5c85af04ae0b3026df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Any time the House is ready, when the Speaker is on his feet\u2014that would be very helpful, thank you. The Hon Grant Robertson is correct, and I have let things go. I think I\u2019m going to make a new alteration to the way that I have presided over question time. At least one part of the question should be in order for it to be valid. That question contained an imputation, and I am ruling it out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022559915b0e6884181a1cf2351d8ed2c3e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00221d48c631c6814aacb3be68f190a3d1d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d48c631c6814aacb3be68f190a3d1d4\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002245b12db53e3f4d1ba9b36317f9b2596b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245b12db53e3f4d1ba9b36317f9b2596b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Statistics New Zealand reported yesterday that labour productivity rose 2.2 percent in the year ending March 2022. That represents the largest growth since 2010. Labour productivity measures the quantity of goods or services or output produced per hour of labour. The rise in labour productivity reflects that output rose 5.4 percent, a faster rate than the 3.1 percent increase in labour inputs. As I\u2019ve previously said in the House, we know that 2023 is a difficult and challenging year for many New Zealanders, but this data is further evidence of the fact that New Zealand faces these challenges in a strong position, with a more productive economy and near record low unemployment that will help New Zealanders deal with cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5936d689ff64e1e8139bef69505c387\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: How important is the impact of productivity on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3a44abe4c74a26b0abd67fcbbf7e21\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The challenge of higher productivity is a long-term one for New Zealand and other countries, and, despite this positive report, we know that it is an ongoing challenge. But the Government\u2019s strong commitment and investment in skills and training, research and development, industry development plans, the signing of free-trade agreements, and other efforts are important factors in helping lift our productivity over time, which, in turn, delivers higher-skilled, higher-wage jobs and builds a more inclusive, sustainable, and resilient economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d38b232f2b044c49e743129959af557\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227151900413584896bc61e5d04b39a90e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The jobs market continues to support the economy. Statistics New Zealand reported that employment rose in February 2023, with filled jobs up 0.4 percent, or 8,391, to 2.34 million compared to January 2023. The majority of gains were in the services industries, followed by the goods-producing industries. On an annual basis, the biggest gains were in accommodation and food services, followed by transport, postal and warehousing, and professional services. There were gains in nearly all age groups, and this was also led by the number in the 15- to 19-year-old age group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51b64670a5243ca80f0424211add62a\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on confidence in the labour market and its impact on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8d6975b2ae40f3a2102155028e7644\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Confidence in the employment market has improved. The Westpac McDermott Miller Employment Confidence Index rose 1.5 points, to 109.5, in the March quarter. A number above 100 represents optimism. Confidence improved in most regions, including in the cyclone-affected regions of Tair\u0101whiti and Hawke\u2019s Bay, where it has been driven by perceptions of upcoming job opportunities. We continue to see opportunities in regions across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b63eacc941ec47e0a5d114ad8ce57516\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a52215dfd3e4ae68657e6ca5c51e214\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The latest OECD Economic Outlook report projects that global growth will slow from 3.2 percent to 2.6 percent in 2023. These are below-trend rates for global growth, and the OECD warns that the outlook remains fragile. New Zealand\u2019s prospects will not be immune to what happens overseas, but we are well positioned to face the challenges ahead, and it is worth noting that our economy is 6.7 percent bigger than it was before COVID. This is not something all other countries can say. We have a solid set of Government books, low unemployment, growing exports, and a rising number of tourists. We must continue to take a balanced approach to support New Zealanders and invest in strong public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253612a7f3f3244e99d42b1a98d898661\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1c17402e044c24a6fa333b8d27e08b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1c17402e044c24a6fa333b8d27e08b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he agree with the Cabinet minute that stated \u201Cnow is not the time for regulatory uncertainty \u2026 or to impose new costs on businesses and households\u201D, and is he confident that the Natural and Built Environment and Spatial Planning Bills are consistent with that statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002261e8c0f41bd94e2d8178688b661665d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261e8c0f41bd94e2d8178688b661665d2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes and yes. The repeal and the replacement of the Resource Management Act (RMA) will make the planning system better, faster, and cheaper for businesses and households. There is much more cost and uncertainty under the existing RMA than there will be under the new system. The regulatory analysis which was independently prepared and tabled in the House with the bill shows savings for businesses and households of 19 percent per annum compared to the status quo. This is around $150 million per annum, and billions over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a6912f2cd9400eb6ec79565f44c324\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he pushing ahead with bills that will make it more difficult to build wind farms, as stated by the Wind Energy Association, and are the biggest single barrier to decarbonising our economy, as stated by Contact Energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed4ef131d1b40e5922a3c28269855ae\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are some fair, detailed points in those submissions that I\u2019m sure will be considered by the select committee, but many years of work have gone into these reforms. There have been reviews by the Property Council, Infrastructure New Zealand, the Northern Employers and Manufacturers Association, the Waitangi Tribunal, Local Government New Zealand, the Randerson review, the select committee inquiry on core provisions, the efficiency review by independent experts, plus the current select committee process. Everyone\u2019s working hard to take into account the likes of those submissions and further improve the bills based on the very detailed and thorough submissions received. But it is time to finish the job and drive it through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c42b3e0631845f5bb0616db4e2681c9\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How will the inclusion of everything consented under the new RMA having to uphold and protect \u201Cte Oranga o te Taiao\u201D, an entirely new legal term, contribute to regulatory certainty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2a67ce9916416b847864d95c24f51e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The new purpose statement makes it clear that after natural biophysical limits are achieved, development is enabled. We\u2019ve stripped out amenity, matters of subjective taste as opposed to biophysical outcomes, from the purpose of the Act, and we are both better enabling development as well as adequately protecting the environment. The definition makes that clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226663991be24e4cc7905834b2e1ea91f8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to submitters on the RMA 2.0 that have warned, like the Chief Justice, of \u201Cextensive litigation following the reforms\u201D, and how on earth will this help make it easier to get things done in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece455fd816740c5990a3fb750ce5273\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The legislation is taking care to carry forward the most important court decisions that arose out of controversies in Marlborough Sounds, where the King Salmon decision in the end, after many decades of uncertainty under the RMA, found that there is a hierarchy: the Act; then national direction, the planning framework; then plans. That hierarchy is both preserved and made clearer under the new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219306b06ce47452cb5da39601f54f7d1\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister think that after six years he will be able to show a reform of the RMA, whereas a previous Government had nine years and wasn\u2019t able to do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c71f4e35e4458e8d66f8f02aa9b4e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I rule that out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ca17aedebe64acf92ef4e30055c8f81\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Veterans\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12d5cfa656f4aa2a792e586d80a1be7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12d5cfa656f4aa2a792e586d80a1be7\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Veterans: What is the Government doing to support veterans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00224fa3b54f568848f4a4c20e4a0de0ff1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fa3b54f568848f4a4c20e4a0de0ff1c\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E With the indulgence of the House, may I welcome students from Hukarere Girls\u2019 College, whose Eskdale-based college was completely devastated in the recent floods. In response to the question: tomorrow, the Government\u2019s 1 April adjustments will come into effect, and this will see the New Zealand superannuation increase by over $100 for a couple per fortnight, and nearly $70 for individuals. What this means for our veterans and their wh\u0101nau is an increase for those on the veteran\u2019s pension. Tomorrow\u2019s adjustments will help 880,000 people receiving New Zealand\u2019s superannuation, and more than 5,500 on the veteran\u2019s pension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3b0475966ff490080aa5c98104ab961\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: What else have we done to support the RSA veterans and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226beff23c4443496c905c24fdd9040f40\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government recognises the value of the services the RSA provides and, for the past four years, with a grant of $250,000 annually, we have supported the RSA to help them do what they do best: provide welfare and support for our servicemen and servicewomen and their wh\u0101nau. Recently I made the decision that this funding will continue for the next three years. In addition, in 2020, during COVID, the Government supported the RSA with a one-off grant of $2.53 million so they could continue to provide welfare support to veterans and wh\u0101nau during the pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d16a8f2b3c40948fe48214ca79878f\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: What have we done to support the wellbeing of our veterans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3186cc6801d4f2ab5fb9d3ecf3253e7\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Many veterans leave service and transition into civilian life successfully, but others experience mental health and/or addiction issues. He Ara Oranga, a 2018 report to our Government\u2019s inquiry into mental health and addiction, identified veterans as a vulnerable group. However, a framework was never developed to address their needs. In 2021, the ministry for veterans\u2019 affairs began the process of building a framework that brought together key defence and health organisations, veteran advocacy groups, health practitioners, and veterans to focus on the mental health and wellbeing of veterans and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518f080602c340829543bb6f65991c06\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: How did the Government respond to the He Ara Oranga report to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f30fb41d8d4bce86c383d35ab0758b\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: In 2022, we launched a new framework to address mental health and wellbeing for our veterans called Te Arataki m\u014D te Hauora Ng\u0101kau m\u014D ng\u0101 M\u014Drehu a T\u016B me \u014D r\u0101tou Wh\u0101nau, The Veteran, Family and Wh\u0101nau Mental Health and Wellbeing Policy Framework. This framework identified what was needed and, just as importantly, it looked at the evidence about need and responses. It also identified where work needed to be done and what are the sorts of interventions that actually do make a difference for our veterans. This framework, along with the increased amounts to superannuation and veteran\u2019s pension, is just another step by this Government to improving the quality of life for our veterans and all those that serve our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278966e2e866d45e28cc1923f8d3c1007\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022a924f93959564682bec6d570048ecfb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a924f93959564682bec6d570048ecfb1\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Has she seen St John Ambulance data released this week showing that the amount of time ambulances are ramped while waiting to admit patients to hospital emergency departments has more than trebled since 2019, and are ambulances being used as ED waiting rooms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb150bc3c2643d5994815b682559f88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb150bc3c2643d5994815b682559f88\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question: yes. In answer to the second part: no, although ambulance handover delay does happen when it is determined to be clinically necessary, and work is under way to reduce emergency department (ED) pressures and address this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e6c9c54fb4349f1b2de17f2cf052770\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What responsibility does she take, if any, for Auckland Hospital on 6\u00A0March diverting six ambulances to other hospitals because its ED was full, with ED doctors saying that every bit of corridor and recreational space was full of people still on their ambulance stretchers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e1fba7ee684a7fa4213f4e4fbbfc08\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Since I have been Minister of Health, I have established the winter preparedness, or the response to the acute demand in our hospitals, as a priority. There are a number of measures under way to address the demand that is in our hospitals following on from COVID. As I\u2019ve already said in the House, that includes comprehensive flu and COVID vaccination programmes, measures within our hospitals to make sure flow of patients in and out of them are maintained, plus collaborative work with community partners, including St John and primary care, to make sure that all opportunities to keep people out of hospital are maximised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70399e36deb46bea37899a7fa43468b\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How was her inability to know how many staff vacancies there are at each emergency department contributing to EDs saying that they are under-resourced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223548522653bc40eda60a2313207db60b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe that is the response to the written parliamentary questions that member has submitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d49c771ed948dc9d3ae2b38a824552\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the number of people waiting more than 24 hours in emergency departments trebled since Health New Zealand was formed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222316ad3dbf90478b96cf56de1a39860f\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: The relevant trends in interpreting that data is that there has been an increase in acute demand since the pandemic. This has been seen in a number of countries\u2014for example, the relevant stats for ambulance ramping in the UK are five times worse than they were pre-pandemic. This is a global trend with increased demand for healthcare, and we are determined to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544d9396c389482f9b259666d9e73cfb\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Have the international countries she has just referenced also undertaken major structural change of their health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bea817b0364fa5a94f8c5e24da019d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: The opportunity to address acute demand in our health system is maximised by having a single national service, and the member will see a number of initiatives that were developed at a local level be rolled out nationally because of our new joined-up health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aea0671272714624891c9eaf524e89b4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Youth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u00225b6c370cb73e404f98acac03f265224d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b6c370cb73e404f98acac03f265224d\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Youth: What recent reports has she seen evaluating the outcomes of programmes designed to support and empower rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00229e4b25e3a3194fd0acc9653811bc852a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e4b25e3a3194fd0acc9653811bc852a\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Minister for Youth):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, and I mihi to all of the rangatahi that are in the audience today. I have recently received the term 4, 2022 update on the \u0100konga Youth Development Community Fund, which builds on previous pleasing progress reports. The \u0100konga Fund was set up to help mitigate the risks of disengagement from education for at-risk \u0101konga, and it\u2019s designed to support and empower those who have had their education impacted by COVID-19, and who have had no pathway into further training or employment. As has been previously reported, as at the end of term 3, 2022, over 6,200 \u0101konga had engaged with funded programmes, and that had exceeded our original goal of 5,500 \u0101konga engaging with the programme by the end of 2022. Today, I am pleased to inform the House that the success of the \u0100konga Fund is further highlighted in the term 4 report, with 6,743 \u0101konga having engaged with the programme at the end of 2022. Two key themes emerged: showing increased support for rainbow \u0101konga and promoting wh\u0101nau and community connection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd82c3ce33c54e15ad420fb757273b93\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What examples did the report show regarding the theme of promoting wh\u0101nau and community connection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f4e7d00b6543819079dc7ef175b0d9\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Of those who exited an \u0100konga Fund programme, 96 percent developed stronger connections with their community. The recent activities of three providers show how this has been done in really creative ways\u2014for example, here in the Wellington region, alongside Upper Hutt Community Youth Trust, \u0101konga worked with Forest \u0026amp; Bird to plant more than 60 new trees in Upper Hutt. Another great initiative, which I personally love, was from the Southern Youth Development Trust in Dunedin, who ran a bike recycling programme with \u0101konga. They recycled around 200 bikes, and the money was used to buy helmets for people who are unable to afford them. And the Matapuna Trust ran a community painting project with \u0101konga, where they helped clean up graffiti in the community while also meeting their planned post-family group conference, and allowing them to be discharged from the court or youth justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699dba926d9c40f7916f55537ad4a2af\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How did the report show that \u0100konga Youth Development Community Fund providers supported rainbow \u0101konga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf57fab8ced445d96d19656a34c3163\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Members of the rainbow community in Aotearoa New Zealand often face a range of complex issues and are overrepresented in statistics around mental health and discrimination. In term 4, 2022, three \u0100konga Youth Development Community Fund providers highlighted their work to support and connect this cohort. Triple Summits Services Ltd brought together a small group of rainbow \u0101konga to explore the rainbow community, building confidence and connections, and supporting them to feel heard. Te Ora Hou \u014Ctautahi Inc ran a group named Kanorau R\u014Dp\u016B to support rainbow \u0101konga in its community. And the Horowhenua Learning Centre Trust ran a rainbow-specific programme, which was met with the enthusiasm and positive feedback from \u0101konga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d3c349930524720b02b8fcf65c93ff6\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback did the report contain from those who took part in the \u0100konga Fund programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222846c417f59545e38ee4bab9406dd73f\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Through this report, we have heard from kaimahi, from \u0101konga, and from teachers who all support the positive difference the \u0100konga Fund programmes have been making in the lives of our young people. One \u0101konga told us that they \u201Clearnt skills which I needed for job interviews, and how to communicate well. My mentor was amazing and set up the interview for me where I got my first job.\u201D One kaimahi said, \u201CWe have completed an incredible year of w\u0101nanga,\u201D and, in the words of some of the rangatahi, it has not been just life changing but a lifesaving one. As the House can see, the \u0100konga Fund has resulted in our rangatahi having an increased level of engagement in their learning and aspiration for their future, and having transitioned to further training or employment; outcomes I think we can all be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257357b32b7bc4ab794b1c0d7a5a6783a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022391a15e555f04cffa6a85f9cbaabc7e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391a15e555f04cffa6a85f9cbaabc7e4\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement when asked if she could explain how it is fair for one child in one school to get an hour of maths a day, as recommended by the Royal Society, while a child in another school the same age gets far less, \u201COh yes, absolutely I can\u201D; if so, does she accept this variation has contributed to the widening gap in maths achievement for New Zealand students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002205867ff54a55450aa931d02b71e37968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205867ff54a55450aa931d02b71e37968\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221616e8756f542c3b616088f4a7ddd64\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she say on Tuesday that some teachers will have an approach to teaching maths that will mean they don\u2019t need to teach an hour a day, when the Royal Society experts recommended an hour of maths a day regardless of the way in which maths is being taught?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298086ca7c1124db6b88784700af24688\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: The Royal Society, in their report\u2014and it was a Government-commissioned report\u2014made 14 recommendations, and this Government, instead of being focused on one, is focused on all 14 of them. I made the statement on Tuesday because of research that shows that\u2014and I will quote Dr Sarah Aiono\u2019s research that says\u2014\u201COne hour per day of focused teaching for each core subject is developmentally inappropriate for most children in the primary school sector.\u201D The research shows giving students information in small chunks at a time gives the brain time to process the information and continue to practise it. Accumulatively, that could add up to an hour of maths a day, or even more. That is why National\u2019s outdated policy of sitting kids down with a pen and paper for an hour isn\u2019t an effective way to teach maths. The science has moved on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58414deb2ca442c849361c8ec125e32\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: How will she guarantee that every primary and intermediate school child across New Zealand will get the same amount of time learning maths every day to ensure that they are mastering the basics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022058d89dd38434fb1b6b6eadd644e311c\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: The Royal Society, in the report that the member keeps referencing, notes that most teachers are already teaching three to five hours of maths a week, and 20 percent are actually teaching seven hours of maths a week. But the point that the member is missing is that lifting maths is not about clock-watching; it\u2019s about quality teaching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fbe6ff6bd4477bab4e13d08edab0af\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: If a teacher follows the recommended maths teaching methods in her proposed Common Practice Model, which includes supporting student relationships with maths, which encompasses feelings and emotions related to maths, and addressing issues of power, social justice, and equity, will this method require less than an hour of maths per day for all students, as she suggested on Tuesday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cbb0f2a77514eb4ae40dead65d55eb4\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: The Common Practice Model will be in place from next year and will ensure that maths is taught consistently from Kait\u0101ia to Invercargill. What the Common Practice Model might actually do is actually show that the amount of teaching will be prescribed as well, but we are not at the point of making those policy decisions at this point in time. We are concentrating on quality teaching, not clock-watching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277335250bad6409ba035d0b639267d31\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00224be37094b6a04d038299b29726181b74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224be37094b6a04d038299b29726181b74\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he agree with advice from Waka Kotahi that providing an additional Waitemat\u0101 road crossing would result in over 3,000 additional vehicles entering the city centre, compared to a light rail - only crossing; if so, will any of the options proposed, which all include additional road lanes, reduce congestion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fca70b138a9c4ea0ab40b4ed99d9b003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fca70b138a9c4ea0ab40b4ed99d9b003\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: On behalf of the Minister, the Waitemat\u0101 Harbour Connections programme is focused on delivering, as quickly as possible, a futureproof solution for people wanting to travel across the Waitemat\u0101 by car, bus, light rail, walking, cycling, or truck. The scenarios released today consider both the needs of Aucklanders to get into the city centre and also through the city. It is correct that Waka Kotahi\u2019s advice on one of the five options is, as the member states, with respect to the number of vehicles entering the city at the a.m. peak, but they also advise that there will be a reduction in congestion in that option. In answer to the second part of the member\u2019s question, updated private vehicle demand projections will be provided when the preferred option is confirmed in mid-2023. However, as I say, the indicative work on the option the member has raised shows that congestion will be reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249ec5b24e07242d5b35cd505e72e22bf\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How will congestion be reduced if there are additional cars on the roads at peak time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302d02f732f4400b840f62c1d99116a9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not just a peak-time analysis, as I\u2019m sure the member well knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de9df81efa4d4086bbd21ccc7bd00899\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with advice from Waka Kotahi that the road connections either side of the Auckland Harbour Bridge cannot carry any more private vehicle trips in the peak periods; if so, how will adding further car lanes and introducing more vehicles into those roads help congestion in the city centre?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241453458afb3459b95dcecb9e726a8d7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, the focus here is on the resilience of the entire network in the Auckland area. Obviously, as I\u2019ve already stated, the focus is not just on people coming into the city; it is also on people going through the city. Also, Auckland has seen, in recent times, the importance of resilience in the network, including with regards to the harbour bridge itself, which requires support to be able to continue to play its role. So it has to be an integrated solution that is adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b6ee93f8fe04dccabf0dcfc41881d08\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public meaningfully engage on the options proposed, without seeing their projected impact on tail-pipe emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc5fd68fa374150b9d708f9b911cdeb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: These are scenarios that the public can engage upon. There are frank assessments of them already, both the pros and the cons of various options, that people can engage with\u2014and I\u2019m sure Aucklanders will be keen to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae12f9d175ae415f822e0303b93b2444\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is such an outrageously expensive, complex project with such a poor economic case\u2014a benefit-cost ratio well below 0.5\u2014a priority, when we need to be investing urgently in projects that actually give New Zealanders low-carbon transport options right around the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b10e019b8f4b129de1af3014eb8692\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject various assertions in that question. What\u2019s attempting to be done here is to make sure that we have an integrated transport plan for Aucklanders; one that will give certainty to them and those that will help construct it, and one that does support the Government\u2019s overall goals that include the work around climate action but also include making sure that we provide resilient cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a9dcc383dc47148387d679f95f0c1d\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave to table the most recent benefit-cost analysis for these options, which is 0.2 and 0.3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022222c0b50f3f2465db94a0ec7947a4ddd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is that publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108778a761dc48df9656e1a54a5cb707\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t seem like the Ministers have read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022651781a2c2794f1e8e1296c1bd3884e1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6dc697d9c44a82a008399cb8eccee6\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Stand, withdraw, and apologise for presenting facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02af391c33c4fcabc2863f0fdbbb725\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m considering what I\u2019m going to do. That was deliberate. The member will leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0d2ff3fdd18490a9cbd23342a02df73\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Courts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022bec463010e7c448e8de2fbc4e028f1f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bec463010e7c448e8de2fbc4e028f1f1\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Courts: What progress has been made to reduce delays in the coronial system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00225e5651f7326647b19f9e75c705688c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e5651f7326647b19f9e75c705688c02\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday saw the passing of the third reading of the Coroners Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to thank my colleagues across the House for their unanimous support. The Government is committed to improving the coronial system and the experience of families who engage with it. The new law will reduce delays for a number of measures, including the establishment of a new coronial position known as the associate coroner. The associate coroner will help to ensure that coronial cases are, where possible, dealt with promptly and efficiently while not adversely affecting the quality of coronial findings, the judicial independence of coroners, and adherence to law. Since 2014, there has been a significant increase in the number of active coronial cases and time taken to conclude them. The measures in the bill will address these delays for grieving families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a251e71816744339b850c8e97bcf2e4d\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: How will this bill support coroners in their work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022038cadc4ea8949fca1e50aadaee0b193\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Associate coroners are able to exercise almost all of the duties, functions, and powers of a permanent coroner. In practice, associate coroners will primarily undertake duty coroner work within the first 48 hours after death and will be responsible for some of the more straightforward coronial investigations. This will free up coroner time to be utilised for more complex cases\u2014in particular, cases requiring an inquiry to be opened and cases where it is in the public interest for a coroner to make recommendations to avoid similar deaths in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc3fa50e10f4ef1a995d81d16ab005d\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Have any other positions been established to support coroners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d110b254ba24d4d9607f08cdb44483b\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there have. Budget 2022 saw a package of investment to improve the coronial system, including the establishment of the clinical advisers team. Clinical advisers will work alongside coroners and pathologists to ensure coroners have high-quality clinical information to support their decisions. This will contribute to improving efficiency of coronial cases. This month has seen the appointment of the first Chief Clinical Advisor working with the coroner\u2019s court, and a full team of clinical advisers will shortly follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226af361dc56c14fc6b493c0c9f8fda1bc\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What other work is being undertaken to improve the coronial system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a5a11e2931418eb664b08b97c1c83f\u0022\u003EHon RINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the bill, the Ministry of Justice has a broader work programme under way to further improve timeliness of coronial processes and the coronial experience for families. These work streams include responsiveness with respect to tikanga M\u0101ori, and improving the ministry\u2019s case management system. The improving coronial system Budget 2022 initiative provided $28.4 million in funding, which is funding new permanent coroners, associate coroners, and clinical advisers. All this work is aimed towards achieving, where possible, more timely completion of coronial findings while ensuring the public interest continues to be well served across the coronial system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227c11b88c1e84950b1d0c0d3141eaaef\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022a373e2ec6ca8425aa02cd7ba6d28de9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a373e2ec6ca8425aa02cd7ba6d28de9f\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Why has the year three stocktake of the Budget 2019 Mental Health and Addiction package found the delivery status of the mental health infrastructure programme has \u201Cnot meaningfully improved\u201D since the previous Health Minister, Andrew Little, said he was \u201Cextraordinarily frustrated \u2026 we seem to be a long way behind actually getting a shovel in the ground\u201D, and why did the $30 million allocated to support delivery result in a finding that the programme has not accelerated and estimated completion dates are unlikely to be met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00222eb9d115b3bf4c88a5c1f6740b59a1b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eb9d115b3bf4c88a5c1f6740b59a1b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part of the question, the report was written in June 2022 and, since then, solid progress has been made. I\u2019m advised by Te Whatu Ora that many of the recommendations in the report have been implemented or are well under way. I\u2019m advised that of the 16 mental health infrastructure projects, two are complete, eight are in construction, four are in planning, and two are in the business case stage. I understand my colleague Minister Little\u2019s frustration. COVID has been disruptive to project delivery. Inflation, demand for skilled workers, and supply chain disruptions have had flow-on effects to Government infrastructure projects. In response to the second part of the question: $30 million was ring-fenced to accelerate projects. Some of this money has been spent where it was able to be used to materially progress delivery. For projects in later stages, such as detailed design or reaching the point of contractor procurement, there is limited scope for acceleration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b71f9a21347245bfa3064e3f9a178c89\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Which of the following from the report has contributed most to delays: the mental health project with incorrect costs due to the wrong number of beds, the project with the wrong site, or the one with a business case with no plan or time line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b005b15c8f41ecb3245679ff265985\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to seismic issues that have been discovered in one of the sites, I think that is a very legitimate reason to readjust a project. There are a number of reasons for those delays, some of which were outlined in my primary answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0d27e8f01749ebb0a077970eff8e8d\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to the report\u2019s findings that \u201CA light touch approach by consultants resulted in unrealistic costings, budget escalation, and over-optimistic schedules.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b4aeda99b0d4b6eab260445f80bee20\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would characterise one of the themes of the report as identifying in our disseminated health system a lack of capacity for infrastructure projects, which has been addressed through the centralisation of oversight of infrastructure in Te Whatu Ora. The visibility of projects, their risks, and the capability for leading them has been substantially improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf77d6e00e24b0fb9de976ac6d4c6d5\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question I asked was about the consultant\u2019s work. That wasn\u2019t answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689c161cefb54d769231e13d45fae103\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was definitely addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227326dacc73374c43ada5b653ac6e6ad3\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the implementation unit, nearly two years since being tasked with reviewing mental health projects, admitted they don\u2019t have the appropriate expertise by calling in the Infrastructure Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022046e6f33d1084f40a8b96bb97e98be9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: We have substantially improved the expertise dedicated to supervising these projects, and, as I said in my primary answer, a number of them are being built now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a1e80faed344df8836dc0d3e3513f7\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c0621ddcd04ea4aa15d95bca5e232c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, no more supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4201c3b038c43859f620d8f59906fb2\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022868a1daee25d4396945237c7aa7144d2\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u2014Dismissal as Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7205fdd48a54df0af0548e97cca4d53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7205fdd48a54df0af0548e97cca4d53\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from Christopher Luxon seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the decision by the Prime Minister to dismiss Stuart Nash as a Minister. The application was received on Tuesday, 28 March, but because of urgency, this is the first opportunity to consider it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The dismissal of a Minister is a significant matter. After weighing up the circumstances and the public interest in ministerial probity, I have decided to grant the application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBefore proceeding, I would like the House to consider the fact that the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition do not generally attend Thursday sittings. While Ministers can act for each other, the dismissal of a Minister is something only the Prime Minister can do. It may be more difficult for another Minister to have the knowledge to act for the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIn this instance, therefore, I am going to seek leave of the House to hold the urgent debate on Tuesday, 6 April. It is entirely up to this House to decide whether it does or not. Any one member can object to this, but, having outlined my intention to seek that leave, I do so now. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI call on a member to move on behalf of Christopher Luxon that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002222222739c26647d6a89fba9c169b2a23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222222739c26647d6a89fba9c169b2a23\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Leader of the Opposition: I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere they are, ducking for cover yet again. They don\u2019t want Prime Minister Hipkins here to hear this debate, do they? They don\u2019t want him associated with the stench swirling around the Government. It is a stench that is swirling around the Labour Party, the Prime Minister\u2019s office, and the conventions of our democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is very proud of our reputation as a country that is consistently ranked as one of the least corrupt in the world. The international transparency index puts us at number two because of our perceived levels of lack of public sector corruption, and we must guard that very carefully. What we have experienced in recent days with a series of revelations reminds us that there is a grey area that Governments can stray into too easily that could put that reputation at risk. The grey bits matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to step through for the House what has actually gone on here, because this is not a matter about one man, Stuart Nash. This is not a matter about one decision. This is about Ministers in a Government being part of a culture that thinks that if you don\u2019t want the public to know, you work out how to cover it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe have witnessed an egregious breach of Cabinet confidentiality in which a Minister shared information with his personal donors for reasons that have not been explained, but reasons that leave us all wondering. We have one group of privileged New Zealanders accessing information that is never available to everyday people. We now know for sure that it wasn\u2019t just Minister Nash and his staff who knew about this; the Prime Minister\u2019s office knew all about it too. They knew about it last year. They were actively consulted about how it should be managed, and they were complicit in the decision to cover it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s go through what happened. What we know is that back in June last year, there was argy-bargy about how landlords and tenants should deal with commercial lease issues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022710206648f0f4483a4aa3ee2b1dcf350\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s got her dates completely wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de60615ffe14dff99b6abd2f4ab549e\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In 2020; that is not last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022656fe4dd13284a4a94355929906e9cbf\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014resulting from COVID-19. The members opposite, including Minister Andrew Little and Minister Grant Robertson\u2014sorry, in 2020; the Minister is correct. In 2020, they decided that they would take action, and there was a Cabinet decision. It was a decision that was made with power to act from Cabinet by the committee. They decided that they would intervene, they would change the law to change the obligations of commercial landlords. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow we learn that Stuart Nash did not like that decision, so two days after\u2014two days after\u2014Cabinet made that decision, he got into his email and he wrote an email to two of his mates and he gave them the low-down on what had happened. He gave the low-down on David Parker\u2019s views. He gave the low-down on why the decision had been made and why it was a bad decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo we ask what happened next. Well, the interesting thing is that, actually, that law never got written. That law never got introduced. That law never got passed. Actually, the Cabinet resiled from the positions held in that Cabinet paper. At the time, they explained it saying, \u201COh, well, that\u2019s because New Zealand First don\u2019t support it.\u201D Well, we now have a very real question to ask: why was that? Who was involved in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat we need to understand is: was there improper influence of Cabinet deliberations? Because what is at stake here is not simply the breaking of the rule that you don\u2019t talk about what happens in Cabinet with your donor mates. The other thing at stake here is the integrity of the decision-making process of Cabinet, something that is set out in great detail in the Cabinet Manual. What that involves is a high level of personal conduct for Ministers and them identifying personal interests that may be seen to influence their decision making. Here we have a case where decisions were changed, and where it certainly seems that something influenced their decision making. We cannot be clear whether or not that was proper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut then let\u2019s take us to the next bit, because this is where it gets incredibly stinky. Stuart Nash\u2019s office received an Official Information Act request on 8 June asking for all written correspondence between him and his donors. Now, clearly, the alarm bells went off in his office. They went, \u201CUh, oh! We\u2019ve got a really bad stinky one here that now we\u2019re going to have to release.\u201D So what did they do? They thought, \u201CWe better kick this upstairs.\u201D They rang the Prime Minister\u2019s office, not once; three times they engaged with the Prime Minister\u2019s office about this Official Information Act request, so seriously were they taking it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister\u2019s office, at that moment, had a choice. They had a choice where they could look at that email, and they could say, \u201CWe need to do the right thing here. There has been an egregious breach of the Cabinet Manual. This Minister is acting defiantly and arrogantly outside of the rules. We\u2019re kicking it up to the Prime Minister. Action must be taken.\u201D That\u2019s what they should have done. That\u2019s what a National Party Prime Minister\u2019s office would have done. That\u2019s what, actually, successive Prime Ministers\u2019 offices would have done, because we respect the Official Information Act. What is actually clear is that over on the other side of the House, the promises of transparency have eroded into a reality of contempt for the Official Information Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo what did the Prime Minister\u2019s office do next? They said, \u201COh yeah, you\u2019ve said it\u2019s out of scope.\u201D\u2014Clever! That\u2019s pretty clever, isn\u2019t it?\u2014\u201CWe\u2019ll just say it\u2019s out of scope.\u201D And they replied to the Official Information Act request without releasing that letter. They knew about it. They did nothing. They are complicit in a cover-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, where does this lead us? Because my concern here is about longstanding conventions in New Zealand about the standards we have, about how Cabinet runs, about how Governments run, and about who has influence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd it seems to me that there are clear implications here, not only for Minister Nash but for the Prime Minister today. In order to clear the stench that is now swirling around the Government, we need assurances that they actually understand their obligations under the Official Information Act, that they actually read the Cabinet Manual, and that they think those rules matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to highlight here is that the former Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has said, \u201CHey, this isn\u2019t a big deal, this went on all the time. This went on all the time when I was in that Cabinet. Members of that Cabinet were constantly leaking about Cabinet discussions.\u201D Well, if that is the case, then that is a severe corrosion of standards in our Government. And if that is the case, the Prime Minister needs to take action to ensure that we actually return to standards that mean that Ministers don\u2019t do that sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut the other issue that we have here is that we have a Minister who says, \u201COh, look, I stuffed up a little bit.\u201D, and he\u2019s resigned, but we have had no action taken by the Prime Minister\u2019s office who were completely complicit in this action. They knew about it. They didn\u2019t act on it. And then they worked with him to withhold the email.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo National\u2019s view is this: New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a country known for its transparency, for its good ethics, and for its freedom from corruption is one that is too important to put at risk. We uphold that reputation by maintaining and enforcing high standards. There are several things that need to happen now. There needs to be a full investigation, not just into Minister Nash\u2019s correspondence during this period but into exactly what influence he was having and the donors were having over him, if at all; there needs to be an investigation into how many times he leaked from the Cabinet. There needs to be clarity around whether this is, as Winston Peters has suggested, accepted practice under Labour. There needs to be an urgent investigation by the Ombudsman. I understand that the Ombudsman previously received a redacted version of the email in question, and I wonder whether that has influenced the attitude of that office to this. There needs to be a coming to transparency by the Prime Minister\u2019s office. They must release not only all of the correspondence relating to this Official Information Act request but actually document how many times they were consulting with Minister Nash\u2019s office about what he should withhold from Official Information Act requests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENational will continue to prosecute what has gone on here. I fear that there may be a lot more to this. I have been very careful today not to make allegations that can\u2019t yet be proved, but we will be examining the evidence very carefully. And Ministers opposite can ask themselves this: when you take your ministerial oath\u2014and every day when we stand in this House and we make that prayer and commit to put aside personal interests, we must uphold it, and we must uphold it not just by walking past bad behaviour. And if it is the case that staff in the Prime Minister\u2019s office were so ignorant of the Cabinet Manual and the Official Information Act that they made an error and didn\u2019t release this information, then ask yourself what sort of ethical standards exist within your staff, and set some. I don\u2019t blame the individual staff members; I blame a culture in the Beehive that comes straight from the top. They are only acting on the guidance and culture that has been set from the very top down to the very bottom. That culture is one where if you don\u2019t want the public to know, you cover it up\u2014until, of course, the media ask questions. When the media ask questions, you better do some performative ethical behaviour. But that\u2019s actually not good enough. You need to act in advance of those queries. You need to enforce the standards at all times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a sad day\u2014it is a sad day\u2014because New Zealand is a country that should be free from this sort of stench, it should be free from this sort of erosion of clear standards, and it should be a country where the Prime Minister\u2019s office doesn\u2019t make excuses in the way that we saw today. There is an urgent need for this Government to clear the rot, to make it clear that they will be instructing not only Ministers but their staff on what the Cabinet Manual requires of them, on what the Official Information Act requires of them, and that they will be acting with the integrity that New Zealanders expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis is not a matter just about Minister Nash. It\u2019s about what has become acceptable under this Labour-led administration\u2014an administration more influenced by lobbyists than any I can recall in previous history, an administration which has loosened the rules around Cabinet to a worrying extent, an administration that has been party to a significant cover-up. It is a day of disgrace for the Ministers opposite, and National has one job to do, and that is to make it clear to the New Zealand public that if they vote for us in October and we enter that Beehive, we will come in and we will clean it up. We will enforce the Cabinet Manual. We will enforce the Official Information Act. We will bring standards and ethics back to the heart of Government where they belong. We will protect New Zealand\u2019s international reputation, and we won\u2019t sit back and make excuses when such egregious actions are taken. They should bow their heads in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226854d9ed438848359b3eb4107692a715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226854d9ed438848359b3eb4107692a715\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I want to begin by noting that, obviously, the dismissal of a Minister by the Prime Minister is indeed an extremely serious matter. As the Prime Minister indicated, when he did dismiss Minister Nash from Cabinet, what had happened\u2014his behaviour\u2014was utterly unacceptable. None of us take any pleasure, I imagine, in any part of the House, in fact, with this happening to a member of this House, but it is clear that the behaviour involved was completely unacceptable. As the Prime Minister said at the time, this was not a matter that was a three-strikes matter in terms of the other two things that the Minister had been brought forward for. This on its own was the reason that Minister Nash was dismissed, because what had happened was completely unacceptable. Minister Nash\u2019s actions were a clear breach of collective responsibility and Cabinet confidentiality. He fundamentally breached the trust of his Cabinet colleagues and his conduct was wrong, and that is why the Prime Minister acted in the way that he did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe principles within the Cabinet Manual are well understood by Ministers. Ministers understand that the decisions we are making are serious ones. They are ones that we do hold collective responsibility for; and our ability to work together requires us to have the level of trust that one would expect in a Cabinet. That is not what occurred here. Mr Nash himself has spoken of how remorseful he is about this, but he has paid the ultimate price in terms of his career as a Minister in losing his role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms of the actions that the Prime Minister has taken in response to this, he has of course dismissed the Minister. In addition to that, he has asked the Cabinet secretary to conduct a review into communications between Stuart Nash and his donors. That review will take place over the next two months. The review will look at whether there have been any other breaches of Cabinet collective responsibility or confidentiality where there has been perceived or actual conflicts of interest in the communications that Stuart Nash has had with those donors. The scope of this review is focused around the emails, texts, and other messages between Stuart Nash and any declared donor to his campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe do expect a high level of conduct from Ministers and MPs, and the Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear to his colleagues\u2014and indeed to New Zealanders\u2014that he does not accept what has happened here, that he believes we must uphold standards far higher than those that Minister Nash exhibited, and, as a result, Minister Nash is no longer with us. In terms of the issues around whether or not\u2014oh, sorry. I should also just say it is actually important to note that Minister Nash has said he will cooperate fully with the inquiry, and we will certainly be able to have an outcome that will be released to the public prior to the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI do want to turn to the other matters that have been raised in the speech from the member Nicola Willis, who moved the motion, and that is around the issue of the email that was put into the media and then has subsequently now, obviously, been released to the public. I want to note two things at the outset. The first of those is that both the member who has just spoken and myself have worked in offices\u2014the Prime Minister\u2019s office in particular, but other offices in the building. Once upon a time, I was the person in the Prime Minister\u2019s office who had responsibility for looking at Official Information Act (OIA) requests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat the member knows, and what I know is that that has been a feature of the work of the Beehive under administrations of all shades\u2014that the Prime Minister\u2019s office is involved with Official Information Act requests. It\u2019s called a no-surprises policy. It\u2019s exactly the kind of thing that we would expect, and it is no different in terms of how we\u2019re dealing with it as to how it has been dealt with in the past\u2014that is part of the way it works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOnce upon a time, Official Information Act requests actually never went to agencies. They all came into ministerial offices. Over time, the practice changed, and particularly Opposition members\u2014again, of both shades\u2014have gone ahead and made requests directly to departments. As a result of that, there are now no-surprises policies between departments and ministerial offices, and there are no-surprises policies within the ministerial offices, up to the Prime Minister\u2019s office. It is simply a part of the system that we now have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms of the time line of what happened, that\u2019s been publicly released today by the Prime Minister\u2019s office to make sure that people are absolutely clear about what occurred. If I can just work my way through that chronologically and pick up a number of the points that were made by the member, the first of those is that it is true that Cabinet committee agreed to amend the Property Law Act to imply a clause into leases with criteria, including businesses having 20 or fewer fulltime-equivalents for the lease site, and also to agree to Government support for arbitration. It is also true that, obviously\u2014as the member said\u2014that law never went ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, at the risk of doing the very thing that Minister Nash did, I have to limit my comments. But at the time it was made public by members of the coalition that we were in that there was a difference of view between coalition partners around that matter. For those who\u2019ve been in coalition Governments\u2014and there\u2019s not probably any left from the other side of the House who were in one; or maybe a few who were there\u2014they will know that coalition Governments have to operate on the basis that it is relatively flexible because coalition partners don\u2019t always agree on matters. Equally, something changing between a Cabinet committee and Cabinet is actually not that unusual more generally, but particularly so when one is dealing with coalition arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo, obviously, we take that into account, and I believe that yesterday, the Minister of Justice ran through a large amount of advice that was provided to the then Minister of Justice around this particular matter. So it was a creature of the particular situation and the particular time that we were in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI know that the member who gave the speech offered us earlier on today a definition of \u201Cconspiracy\u201D, which she said was people getting together to work on something. Now, the member\u2019s got a lot of experience in conspiracies to roll Opposition leaders, so I understand that she simply sees it as a plan where two or three people get together, but, actually, the member is jumping at shadows in that regard with this particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen we come to the matter of the email and its arrival in the Prime Minister\u2019s office. As I\u2019ve said earlier today, the Prime Minister has been absolutely clear that he does not find acceptable what occurred here. The staff members in question have apologised. They acknowledged that this was an error of judgment in not recognising the significance of the email and escalating it at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs the Deputy Prime Minister has said today, answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, errors of judgment\u2014human error\u2014are a fact of life. They are a fact of life in every workplace in every building around New Zealand, and I want to take a moment to acknowledge the staff who work for us in these buildings here. They work in one of the most stressful environments that it is possible to work in. They provide extraordinary service to all of us. We\u2019ve just been in a period of urgency, and I have no doubt that in the Opposition as much as in the Government, there were staff who were here until midnight last night, working to make sure that they support us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis particular exercise all happened during the COVID period, when people were under a huge amount of stress, where they were working from home more often than not. None of that is an excuse; it\u2019s simply a reason for why errors of judgment get made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut, more than that, I felt today in question time possibly the angriest I\u2019ve felt in the whole time I have been in Government. To have the deputy leader of the National Party call into question the integrity of staff members, who have no ability to defend themselves\u2014and for many years in this House, it has been a strong convention that we would not do that. We would not drag those staff members in. I think it\u2019s appalling behaviour from the deputy leader of the National Party to do that\u2014and, Mr Speaker, I want to actually apologise to you, because I was one of the members yelling out and you were on your feet, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s right. But there comes a time in this House when I think we go beyond things that are about political debate or political theatre\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e982aedb99f481bb761e0ed59e72b1f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Campbell named them. Andrew Campbell fed their names to the media. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fcbef9c5fbe4d27b167540c42fba59a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: So Mr Bishop is saying that Andrew Campbell fed their names to the media. Mr Bishop is correct about that, and we\u2019ve been transparent about this. What Andrew Campbell didn\u2019t do, Mr Bishop, was accuse those people of being unethical or indulging in a conspiracy, Mr Bishop. That\u2019s not what Andrew Campbell did; that\u2019s what Nicola Willis did. Nicola Willis stood up in this House and impugned the integrity of people who cannot answer back. Mr Bishop, that is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms of the way in which this situation then rolled out, there is, as I\u2019ve noted, a long history of the Prime Minister\u2019s office being involved with the Ministers\u2019 offices in the way that Official Information Act requests get handled. We\u2019ve gone through the process that happened. Those in the Prime Minister\u2019s office have acknowledged their error of judgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat then happens is that an Official Information Act release goes back to a Minister\u2019s office and it is a Minister who signs that out. At that point\u2014and it\u2019s something that we all, as Ministers, know and understand\u2014it\u2019s up to us. At that point, we are the ones who take responsibility for what goes out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not sure what the processes were in Minister Nash\u2019s office, but I can tell colleagues in the House what the processes are in my office, and that is that I do spend a significant amount of time, usually on a Sunday afternoon, going through numerous OIA requests to make sure that I\u2019m confident about what I am putting my name to. That is true, and I am sure that if Minister Nash were here today, he would also acknowledge exactly that point\u2014that he is the person who signed out that OIA request. He is the person who is ultimately responsible for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo while I know that the Opposition over there are intent on hanging out to dry staff members who cannot answer back, the reality is that they themselves have acknowledged an error of judgment, and that is why we are in the position that we are. It is quite true that on this side of the House, we have been through a situation here that none of us are happy about in terms of both Minister Nash having to be dismissed and, indeed, with the process around this email, which the Prime Minister has declared is unacceptable and, certainly, he does not want it to happen again. But I\u2019ve been here a while and I\u2019ve seen a lot, and some of the things that I have heard in this House today just beggar belief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI\u2019m only going to give a handful of things as examples here. I sat over there, I think possibly in the chair that Mr Bishop is in right now, when we were discussing what happened with the deal around the SkyCity convention centre. To summarise that for members, there was an open tender process about who was going to deliver the SkyCity convention centre, Steven Joyce had dinner with them, and then all of a sudden the process changed and it was a direct deal with them. Is that upholding the highest ethical standards, Mr Bishop? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got the issues around the Saudi sheep deal, which are in fact so many it\u2019s almost impossible to mention, but the Auditor-General had a good look at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75cf7aeacfc4feca9991476e25115b6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Steven never had dinner with them. You\u2019re going to have to correct this\u2014it\u2019s wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d4b75a848e41e3b9b53e1cd19d43d4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Bishop might be right: it mightn\u2019t have been Steven Joyce who had the dinner, but it was certainly a Government Minister. Then I do want to mention in addition to that the issues around Oravida, and they\u2019re ones that I am extremely familiar with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn those situations, be it the Saudi sheep deal, be it the SkyCity convention centre deal, be it the Oravida situation, there is a long history on the other side of the House of behaviour that I don\u2019t believe met ethical standards. It does not make right what Minister Nash did by any means, but what it does point to is the fact that getting up on their high horses over there and telling us that they\u2019re the ones who understand what it means to have ethical standards, I believe, is absolutely outrageous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo where does this leave us now? It leaves us in a situation where Stuart Nash, a member of Parliament who came in in 2008, at the same time that I did, who around the House has many people on all sides of the House who would regard him as a friend and somebody that they like, is gone. He\u2019s lost his political career as a Minister. He\u2019s no longer exercising the warrant that I know made him so proud, and, unfortunately, that\u2019s the right decision. The decision taken by the Prime Minister\u2014which is the subject of this motion\u2014to dismiss Stuart Nash is the right decision. It gives me absolutely no joy that that decision had to be taken, but it was undoubtedly the right one. The conduct was utterly unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe now have a situation where the Opposition are determined to carry on and prosecute\u2014as the member opposite said\u2014an issue around the email. That is entirely their right to do that. But from the perspective of the Government and the perspective, indeed, of the motion that\u2019s been moved here, the dismissal of Stuart Nash has occurred as a result of the Prime Minister\u2019s decision. It was the right one, but it is not something I take any comfort or joy in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00223ea0839528634e299f48d124447f70b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ea0839528634e299f48d124447f70b3\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As others have said, I\u2014on behalf of the Green Party\u2014say that this is a sad day for us as a House of Representatives and as a nation who prides itself in its democracy. This is a nation that has had many firsts when it comes to representation. We\u2019ve got one of the longest-standing Houses of Representatives in the democratic world. We are the nation that gave women the vote first. But it seems like we have a long way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had two speeches representing two major political parties who have been fortunate enough\u2014and it is a privilege\u2014to have formed and led Governments in this country, each naming each other for breaches of the Cabinet Manual, and those breaches are terrifying in this context because they relate back to the interaction of Government Ministers\u2014decision makers who are meant to represent the people of New Zealand\u2014and big-money funders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve had the SkyCity deal the Saudi sheep scandal; Oravida; last term, we had cameras on boats delayed, and that was another leaked email scandal of a Minister. We\u2019ve had, just over the past week, the logging lobby and landlords as just a few of the big-money donors that we as members of Parliament can remember within our political life having had a greater influence on decisions of Government, allegedly, than ordinary people who have just one vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c59d646896044f68fa02e8251cde671\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Careful about your privilege here. SkyCity did not donate in relation to what you\u2019re talking about. You should be careful of what you say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4182602384d4a0ab3712f67c8f278af\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Cool. So moving on, ha, ha! We actually do have now\u2014fortunate and privileged as a nation\u2014a New Zealand - based study for the first time done at Victoria University, just across the road, by Lisa Marriott and Max Rashbrooke into the way that political lobbies and political donations work in this country. They interviewed, as academics, hundreds of people who\u2019ve had interactions with all of us\u2014in terms of our political parties, and not individuals\u2014and ex-MPs and ex-Ministers. To quote Max Rashbrooke, in his findings, he says\u2014and this is not my opinion; this is a quote of one of the researchers who\u2019s done this seminal piece of work for the first time into how lobbyists and donations work in this county\u2014\u201CIt gives a remarkable level of access to political donors with their money.\u201D\u2014remarkable access. That is based on what is detailed in the report as lunches, conversations, being able to pick up the phone, having personal relationships with Ministers\u2014it doesn\u2019t go into ordinary members of Parliament, because we don\u2019t make those decisions per se, but I imagine that probably happens also. The scary bit is Cabinet Ministers, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we as Greens say that since we know that this seems to happen, we all agree, across this House, that it\u2019s terrible if it happens, that we all hate it, that we all know that it undermines democracy and that democracy is a fundamental human right, it\u2019s one that underpins all the other rights, all the other interests, as members of the public. Whether it\u2019s workers\u2019 rights, indigenous rights, women\u2019s rights, or environmental protections, democracy is the one that we are meant to uphold in order to know that all of those interests are, in fact, represented. So why are we still working within a system that is so weak, that lacks transparency and proper regulation that would guarantee that our democracy is not dependent on the character of the particular Minister who happens to be holding that position at the time, or human error per se, but has the kind of strong protections and regulations around it that we see elsewhere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe Money for Something report that I\u2019ve been quoting from actually found that \u201CNew Zealand is increasingly an outlier among developed countries\u201D due to our weak regulations of political donations. There is little transparency. They recommended $1,500\u2014that was in my strengthening democracy member\u2019s bill. I am happy to say that after political donations were said not to be a priority last term, this term we did get to a point where we did limit them to at least a lower amount than $15,000, which they were, but $1,500 is where these guys landed and it\u2019s where the Green Party landed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ETwo-thirds of developed nations limit large donations; we don\u2019t have any limit. Given that big donations gain remarkable levels of access, shouldn\u2019t we limit big donations and therefore that access that we\u2019re all so worried about in this House and that we\u2019ve so condemned Stuart Nash for, rightly? Three-quarters, almost, of New Zealanders distrust our political system, based on our political donations rules. Two-thirds of New Zealanders want donations capped at $10,000 to $15,000. And in the research it was found that all things being equal, more money, more donations did result in more votes. So the one-vote-per-person democracy that we pride ourselves on is under threat by this kind of conduct and it seems like its protections are just based on some kind of gentlemen\u2019s agreement right now. We\u2019re an outlier and we can do more. There\u2019s research here and elsewhere in the world that says we should be doing more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMy concern is that, substantively, we can see clearly today that our democracy has been undermined, but that also there\u2019s that intangible harm that every time there\u2019s a scandal like this, whether it\u2019s true or not, people lose interest and trust in democracy. They stop paying attention. They stop feeling heard or represented or included. They don\u2019t feel like there\u2019s any point. And when that happens, they stop voting. And when that happens, can we proclaim a democracy if we\u2019re not only excluding people based on their ability to buy influence on the free market but also just their interest because they don\u2019t trust the system anymore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIf they don\u2019t trust the system anymore, because every second week we\u2019ve got a scandal that we all stand up and admonish, it doesn\u2019t matter anymore whether we fire the Minister or not. Because those fundamental rights of those who can\u2019t afford to donate big money, their votes are gone too\u2014their interests, in terms of being renters, being workers, being indigenous, being from other marginalised communities that we know have a lower ability to donate. It does mean that it\u2019s a sad day for our democracy whether or not any of what\u2019s been hurled across the House today is true. But we as Greens point to systems change to restore that trust, to restore transparency, and to protect the fundamental right of every New Zealander to a functioning, inclusive democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00229dfa3c83cae14e98bc350b39929d4300\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dfa3c83cae14e98bc350b39929d4300\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not sure it\u2019s a pleasure to rise as part of this urgent debate on the dismissal of the Hon Stuart Nash as a Minister. The fact is he has been dismissed. The Prime Minister dismissed him within two hours of being notified of what is clearly an egregious breach of the Cabinet Manual and the standards expected of Cabinet Ministers in New Zealand. I say, as much in sadness as in anger, that what Stuart Nash did was wholly and utterly wrong, and the decision of the Prime Minister to dismiss him was the right decision. We do have standards, and we should be very proud in this country of the standards that we maintain in this country. They stem from a range of sources: from the Cabinet Manual, from the transparency arrangements that we have, from the Official Information Act, through written parliamentary questions, through an extraordinary network of advocacy groups and interest groups\u2014and, yes, would you believe, lobbyists and others\u2014who bring their advocacy and bring their issues to this House, and it now being more accessible in terms of bringing petitions and issues to this House. So we have a lot going for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI respect what the member Golriz Ghahraman has just been saying in her words to the House, but I do just point out, in terms of electoral transparency, the way our rules in the Electoral Act are currently framed is that, basically, the higher the donation, the more transparency there is. It is true that there\u2019s a level of non-disclosure of details behind donations, but for very significant donations there\u2019s not only a disclosure requirement but a timeliness requirement on that disclosure as well. But it is a matter of fair debate about whether that is adequate anymore in the environment that we\u2019ve got. We know that we live in political systems now, in this country and many others, where money sloshes around and it can be pretty easy, not just within political parties but within the broader political firmament. You look at the amount of money that was being pumped in to, for example, the occupation on the grass in front of Parliament last year, that was funded by all sorts of sources, and that was intended to have a political influence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI want to talk just a little about the circumstances in which the origins of Stuart Nash\u2019s ultimate dismissal arose back in 2020, in spite of the members opposite\u2019s desperate bid to create some sort of conspiracy theory out of it. We were faced with, in the middle of the lockout, the first lockout, many businesses, small businesses, who\u2019d completely lost their revenue, struggling to meet their overheads and specifically their rental outgoings, the payments for their leases. I was Minister of Justice at the time. We got much correspondence and much representation, and we made the decision that we would do something about it and that those small businesses, as so many other businesses had, should get some sort of assistance to get them through what was an extraordinarily difficult time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe made the judgment that a potential policy remedy lay in the Property Law Act, which is the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice and, therefore, the Minister of Justice. We looked at the provisions there that allow interventions into lease agreements in particular circumstances, and we thought we would devise a temporary remedy to give some relief to small businesses, bearing in mind that, actually, for some small businesses\u2014and I would say, actually, many small businesses\u2014their landlords had already come to the party. There were many landlords who were sympathetic to their tenants who had lost their revenue, either all or most of it, over a reasonably significant period of time. But there was a number of landlords who just thought, \u201CI\u2019ve got my lease agreement, you have this obligation; you must pay me those lease payments as per our lease agreement.\u201D, even though in the circumstances beyond everybody\u2019s control, it was manifestly unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere was some concern, because we were a coalition Government and New Zealand First Cabinet Ministers\u2014or one in particular, Winston Peters, was concerned about what he called the erosion of the sanctity of contract. He was most exercised by this, and he was concerned about it. Nevertheless\u2014and I was involved in many discussions with New Zealand First MPs and their Ministers to try to get to a mutually acceptable solution, mutually acceptable between the coalition partners. Well, we got to one, and our Cabinet committee made a decision but then, even after that decision was made\u2014effectively a Cabinet decision because it was a Cabinet committee with a power to act\u2014New Zealand First then withdrew their support, and they indicated they would not vote for it. I can say, for the record, too, there was another party in this House\u2014well, there\u2019s two other parties in this House who also indicated they wouldn\u2019t vote for it: it was the ACT Party and it was the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo the crocodile tears that were being wept early this week by members in the National Party about the plight of small business at that time\u2014they were completely meaningless. The National Party didn\u2019t care, and I doubt whether they care even now. But we did, and we tried to find a solution. It\u2019s interesting, when I go back, there was an interview, for example, involving Winston Peters with one of our top broadcasters, Mike Hosking, and Mike Hosking asked Winston Peters about this issue\u2014the lease issue that has led to Stuart Nash\u2019s dismissal\u2014and said, \u201CAre you holding up Andrew Little\u2019s plan with the rents around landlords and commercial operations?\u201D Winston Peters answers \u201CWhy do you ask that question?\u201D Then Mike Hosking says, \u201CBecause I\u2019ve heard it.\u201D and Winston Peters says, \u201CFrom who?\u201D and Mike Hosking says, \u201CPeople I talk to.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s a bit of exchange and Mr Peters then goes on to say, \u201CI don\u2019t cause trouble, but I\u2019ve got an understanding of how business operates and how landlords and tenants operate, and they are people where one size fits all and it\u2019s very complex and he\u2019s not prepared to do anything about it.\u201D is essentially what the rest of his answer amounts to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo we were up against a difficult situation and I can say, dealing with that issue and dealing with all Ministers\u2014and including Stuart Nash at the time\u2014there was difficulty; there was resistance. Nobody would have expected that a Cabinet Minister of whichever party in the coalition would have breached Cabinet confidentiality and started disclosing to members of the public what individual Cabinet members had said, either in a Cabinet committee or around the Cabinet table. That was simply not something that was ever expected in the Government under Jacinda Ardern, and nor is it expected under Chris Hipkins. They are two people who uphold the highest standards of integrity and conduct, and they have both made it very clear during their tenure of the office of the Prime Minister that they expect nothing less of Cabinet Ministers of whichever party they are in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo that is what has happened, and I have to say when the facts came out this week of an email from Stuart Nash to supporters of his, including donors of his, where he had disclosed that information\u2014disclosed deliberations of Cabinet\u2014I can tell you that I, like many, many people who know the rules, who strive to observe them, was crestfallen and just extremely, extremely disappointed. Now, the benefit of all of this, of course, is that, to a large extent, what we see is the standards that we have set and the system that we have for dealing with lapses of integrity and acts of dishonour are dealt with. So, literally within a couple of hours of this becoming apparent to the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister took the only action he could take, which was to dismiss the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere was an Official Information Act (OIA) request and that has been the subject of members opposite\u2019s discussion but that Official Information Act request was processed in the way you would expect it to be processed. When there was a challenge about non-disclosure, as I understand it, by the requester to the Ombudsman, ultimately the Ombudsman made no ruling and it wasn\u2019t pursued any further. But the system kicked into action; somebody who was interested did make a request under the OIA. That process was followed and when the requester wasn\u2019t satisfied, appealed it to the Ombudsman, but no different outcome was achieved. That is all that has happened and where there has been a lack of integrity, where there has been a breach, the system has kicked in and the stabilisers have worked, and we should be thankful for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat I can say, on this side of the House, and all of the colleagues I have worked with and work with now, all of them display and carry out and sincerely uphold the obligations and responsibilities they know they have to maintain their integrity and the confidentiality of the Cabinet processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00222687ed4470c04f3292e999e35ff1a365\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222687ed4470c04f3292e999e35ff1a365\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of my ACT Party colleagues to take a call in the urgent debate about the dismissal of Stuart Nash from Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister, Chris Hipkins, is now paying the price for having low ministerial standards and weak leadership. Stuart Nash is finally being dismissed from Cabinet\u2014but not after one strike or two strikes or three strikes; it\u2019s after four strikes. The Prime Minister has now shown that he didn\u2019t have the backbone to dismiss a Cabinet Minister when he should have, and he doesn\u2019t have the backbone required for the leadership of being the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EHe should have followed ACT\u2019s advice on day one and sacked Stuart Nash on day one, when we knew that he did not have the ethical standards required to be a Minister in Cabinet, and he breached his own rules, the rules of the Cabinet Manual\u2014very important rules that all people in Cabinet should follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EStuart Nash, on day one, attempted to interfere in a Police prosecution. It\u2019s a pretty serious matter. Not only did he call up the Police Commissioner, he then went on radio and boasted about it. Then, when he was confronted about whether he\u2019d done anything wrong, he didn\u2019t apologise or admit that he\u2019d made a mistake; he doubled down. He didn\u2019t even recognise that anything he had done was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EStuart Nash didn\u2019t follow the rules that he had signed up to as a Cabinet Minister. If he didn\u2019t know the rules and he couldn\u2019t follow the rules, he shouldn\u2019t be able to make the rules and he should have been removed from Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins then went on to say that he\u2019d asked for assurance that Stuart Nash had done nothing else that would breach the Cabinet Manual, and he got that assurance from Stuart Nash. Well, clearly, he did a poor job of seeking that assurance, because only within a matter of days, more information had come to light: that wasn\u2019t the only time Stuart Nash had breached the Cabinet Manual by commenting on an individual Police prosecution\u2014he had done it before. It turns out he had failed to inform Chris Hipkins about an earlier incident in 2020, when Crown Law investigated Stuart Nash for inappropriate comments around the handling of a Police case and encouraged David Parker, the Attorney-General, to get involved about his conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, Stuart Nash was either, at that time, telling his boss porkies or he was being cute with the truth. Now, either way, at that point in time, he had completely embarrassed Chris Hipkins. And surely\u2014surely\u2014then he had to go. How is it possible that the Prime Minister could have confidence in one of his own Cabinet colleagues who not only had once but twice interfered in a Police prosecution matter and somebody who had twice breached the Cabinet Manual but then had gone and bragged about it publicly, didn\u2019t learn from his mistakes, and obfuscated about the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EHe didn\u2019t have the ethical standards required on strike one or strike two. Because the Cabinet Manual says that, at all times, Ministers are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds and is seen to uphold the highest ethical standards. Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo at this point, it then raised a question in ACT about what more does Stuart Nash need to do to get sacked? Well, it wasn\u2019t the third strike that then came out. It then turns out he was found to have contacted a senior Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment official over an immigration case, rather than following the process that Cabinet Ministers should follow for an established procedure on immigration cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThat wasn\u2019t enough to remove him from Cabinet. He was bumped down to the lowest rank within Cabinet, but, somehow, the Prime Minister still stood up in front of all New Zealanders\u2014in front of everybody who pays these guys\u2019 jobs\u2014and said, \u201CYes, I still have the faith to have Stuart Nash in my Cabinet.\u201D So then it raised a question of, well, what possibly could Stuart Nash need to do more to lose the faith of Chris Hipkins and to be sacked from Cabinet? Chris Hipkins was forced to answer that question when Stuart Nash appeared to breach Cabinet rules again by sending an email that showed he breached Cabinet confidence and collective responsibility. He leaked information from his own Cabinet colleagues outside of Cabinet and spoke out against them to his own interests, to people he knew in the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, Kiwis deserve better from our Government Ministers. We expect and deserve Ministers to have high standards. Every day, up and down New Zealand, taxpayers hand over their money to Government Ministers, hoping that they will use that money wisely, to spend it in the best interests of other New Zealanders. They vote for people to be representatives in this House for them, to make the rules that everybody else must follow. They give up their trust and their faith, believing that Cabinet Ministers will hold themselves to a high standard and they will hold their own colleagues to a high standard. And what we have seen in this instance is a Prime Minister who has extremely low standards. If this is what he would have allowed Stuart Nash to get away with, what else does he allow his Cabinet colleagues to get away with? The standards are so low. He only removed Stuart Nash after his fourth strike\u2014not his first strike, his second strike, or his third strike; his fourth one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo all of these turns of events have finally led to the sacking of Stuart Nash, but they have led to the truth of Chris Hipkins\u2014that he has low standards and he can\u2019t make the hard decisions that New Zealanders should expect of our Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EACT is here in Parliament to put forward better ideas on how to make New Zealand a better place for everybody, but we\u2019re also here to hold the Government to account. If it wasn\u2019t for David Seymour listening to Newstalk ZB and choking on his cornflakes, that he had heard a Minister admit and boast that he had tried to interfere in a Police prosecution, we may never be having this debate. But we are having this debate now because we have members of this House in the ACT Party listening to the Government, watching the Government, and making sure that we\u2019re holding them to account, because New Zealanders expect a high standard of their Ministers and ACT expects that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s possible that something more may have ended up having Stuart Nash sacked. I mean, he did have four strikes after all; there might be more to come\u2014something was bound to happen. But ACT is here to hold the Government to account, and we\u2019re sorry to see that this is the state of affairs that it\u2019s come to. But we expect more from our Government and we expect more from our Prime Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7de39762b0841e49246cb3c7c5df39c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7de39762b0841e49246cb3c7c5df39c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Some of the comments that were made by the speaker who\u2019s just taken her seat, Brooke van Velden, I agree with. I think New Zealanders do expect high standards of their politicians and their Ministers, particularly, in a Government, and they are rightly disappointed when those high standards are not upheld. This is a clear case of where that has occurred. The Minister concerned, Stuart Nash, most clearly breached the duty of confidence that he owed to his Cabinet, in breach of the Cabinet Manual\u2014although you don\u2019t really need a Cabinet manual to know what \u201Cduties of confidence\u201D mean\u2014and that breach of that duty means that he breached the trust of the Cabinet and the Government and the Prime Minister, and therefore the Prime Minister was quite right to dismiss him in his role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI heard David Seymour in an interview earlier in the week describe Stuart Nash as hapless, and I thought it was quite a good adjective to use because it\u2019s almost unbelievable that one would do this. And it\u2019s also incredibly naive that if one was going to do this, you\u2019d do it in an email that left a written trail. Brooke van Velden\u2019s comments that he was boastful in respect of his errors of judgment in respect of the interference and criticism of the judiciary and contacting the Commissioner of Police, it\u2019s of a similar vein, and it is incredibly disappointing to me and I\u2019m sure all of my ministerial and parliamentary colleagues, actually, across the House that he could be so cavalier, and so obviously breached the standards that a Minister owes. I think that the standards that are expected by members of the public are being reflected in the Prime Minister\u2019s decision not just to dismiss Stuart Nash but to cause the Secretary of the Cabinet to inquire into his communications with his donors more broadly and see if there is a pattern of conduct broader than this individual event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the assertions that were made earlier in this week that it was Stuart Nash that somehow intervened to prevent there being a change to the law to provide relief to tenants during COVID, I know that that is incorrect, as the Hon Andrew Little has said, using sources that are public, quoting interviews with the Rt Hon Winston Peters. The change of position between the Cabinet committee that he reported on in his email exchange that was inappropriate, and the eventual Cabinet decision\u2014what happened was that the coalition partner within the then Government decided that from their point of view it wasn\u2019t a wise thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Andrew Little has said, the reasoning that the Labour Party had applied to the situation was that although a lot of leases had a term\u2014if they used the standard Auckland District Law Society form of lease that said that when you can\u2019t use the premises you don\u2019t have to pay rent, and you couldn\u2019t use the premises during COVID because of lockdown rules. There were a number of lease arrangements on other terms that weren\u2019t using the Auckland District Law Society form of lease, particularly quite a few of the malls where they had their own leases that didn\u2019t have that standard form clause. Now, from the point of view of the Government, a lot of the subsidies that were being paid\u2014that were keeping people attached to their work\u2014were in danger of not working, because the money was having to be applied to pay 100 percent of a rental bill rather than there being some compromise with the landlord during that period when the premises couldn\u2019t be used, and that\u2019s why we wanted to make a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIndeed, eventually, post the change of Government, we did make the change that was required to imply the term into leases, similar to that of the Auckland District Law Society standard form of lease. So it is incorrect to say that it was Stuart Nash that caused that change of position. Indeed, I know that Stuart Nash wanted there to be an intervention for the benefit of small-business owners who were facing unreasonable landlords in the context of COVID. That doesn\u2019t forgive in any way the poor practice, the lapse of judgment, the breach of the Cabinet Manual, the breach of confidence, and the loss of trust that follows that sort of egregious conduct from Stuart Nash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of allegations from the National Party and other parties that this is somehow evidence of some broad conspiracy on the part of the Government and that we\u2019ve got lower standards than prior Governments, I would put on record a number of historical events that suggest otherwise. I\u2019m actually not going to name individuals within the then National Government who were working in the National Party offices, but, you know, a shameful period of the National Party\u2019s time in Government is recorded in the book Dirty Politics. I\u2019ve got a copy of it here with me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61b585874a640bf88fb663a61a3efb0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it\u2019s fiction. It\u2019s largely fiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225341a4bc05ea42549def5cfd3eeecfe2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CIt\u2019s largely fiction.\u201D, says\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022321c6308ea5b44a392c1b49589f79269\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022254c1ea03e624e2da5343edeaf3713b5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Chris Bishop. There was a dump of emails, of course, that were obtained by Rawshark\u2014who we don\u2019t know to this day\u2014from the Cameron Slater computer, which showed activities between the Prime Minister\u2019s office of the day and Cameron Slater doing very disreputable things\u2014manipulating the Official Information Act\u2014in order to avoid political controversies that were befalling the National Party, absolutely proven by Dirty Politics, and led to the resignation of the person in the Prime Minister\u2019s department. I\u2019m not going to name them\u2014sort of a little bit ancient history here\u2014but at the time it led to his being forced out of that office and sent somewhere else for a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere was also collusion between Cameron Slater and a then Minister of the National Party. Again, I\u2019m not going to name her\u2014I don\u2019t need to be quite that personal. The same person that was involved in Oravida was providing confidential information to Cameron Slater in order to attack public servants, who, in the end, received death threats. So a terrible thing happened. Then, in respect of Oravida\u2014terrible events that the Hon Grant Robertson actually prosecuted in this House and which led, after a long period of time, to the dismissal by John Key of the relevant Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI myself prosecuted for a number of years the Saudi sheep scandal. I was frustrated at every turn by refusals to make public information that should have been disclosed under the Official Information Act. There were also breaches of the Cabinet Manual by the relevant Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time, who used misused conventions to stop old Cabinet papers being disclosed to the media. And those old Cabinet papers weren\u2019t disclosed to the media, because they disproved the excuses that the Minister was using in order to deflect responsibility for that Saudi sheep farm that was paid for by New Zealand taxpayers\u2014literally in a Saudi desert\u2014in order to influence someone over there who was blocking a trade deal in New Zealand. It was a terrible, unprincipled deal, and it was frustrated\u2014getting to the bottom of that\u2014through misuses of the Official Information Act and other conventions relating to old Cabinet papers. In the end, there was an inquiry by the Auditor-General, but it took years for us to get to that point, and of course that money was wasted. But, more importantly, that was an unprincipled thing to do, and that same Minister, through Cameron Slater again, provided information on critics of his reforms to the Foreign Affairs department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENone the less, this is a shameful day for Stuart Nash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d221c06da0e54e3b9ab0c848ed48ba01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d221c06da0e54e3b9ab0c848ed48ba01\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The crocodile tears being cried by the Government are ludicrous and shameful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson spent five minutes of his contribution on this shameful episode\u2014tawdry episode\u2014in New Zealand\u2019s constitutional and political history, going on about how it was wrong for the National Party to mention, in question time, staff members in the then Prime Minister\u2019s office, who made, in his words, a mistake. He said\u2014I can\u2019t believe he actually said this, but this is what he said\u2014that it was the worst thing he\u2019s ever heard in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWell, Grant Robertson should look in a mirror, because when he was in Opposition, sitting, as he said, where I am sitting today, as a senior member of the Labour Opposition, it was him and his mates in Opposition who repeatedly, over and over again, named members of the National Government staff from 2008 to 2017. I\u2019m not going to make the mistakes that he did at that time, which was to trawl through the various senior advisers and chief advisers to Ministers, but a cursory glance at Hansard will reveal that on more than one occasion\u2014in fact, repeated occasions\u2014Grant Robertson and other members of the Opposition named staff members in Parliament, over and over again. In fact, in relation to the chief of staff of the then Prime Minister, he was dragged to the Privileges Committee by Labour for questioning. So not only was he named in Parliament but he was dragged to the Privileges Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI remember being a junior staff member\u2014and I\u2019m loathe to bring myself into it, but I may as well, given we\u2019re here\u2014working for the Hon Gerry Brownlee, looking up at question time one day, and being shocked to discover Charles Chauvel\u2014the departure of whom from this House we do not lament; both Labour and National, I suspect\u2014making mention of something that I had put on Facebook, on my personal Facebook account. Charles Chauvel got up in Parliament and asked the Hon Gerry Brownlee about something that I had put on my personal Facebook account, and held him to account for that. And then he issued a press release about something that I had done as a junior 23-year-old staff member on my personal Facebook account. So Labour can come down here and say to the National Party, \u201COh, you can\u2019t ask questions about what senior staff in the Prime Minister\u2019s office do.\u201D\u2014to quote Grant Robertson, it\u2019s the worst thing he\u2019s ever seen in Parliament. Well, that is just ludicrous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe reason it\u2019s ludicrous is, firstly, the only people who named the relevant people that we\u2019re talking about were the Government. We\u2019ve never mentioned their names; it was the chief press secretary\u2014who, you might note, I\u2019m not naming\u2014to the Prime Minister who voluntarily came down and disclosed that information on the tiles, or, at least, a bit earlier before, on the way to the House. We\u2019ve never named them. But is it legitimate to ask questions about what happened in relation to these matters? Of course it is\u2014of course it is\u2014because we are dealing with serious matters here. We\u2019re not naming their names, but it is important to get to the bottom of what happened. Ministers are responsible for their staff in the exercise of their ministerial responsibilities; that is important, and it goes to culture. We\u2019re not dealing with junior staff here; we\u2019re talking about the deputy chief of staff to the Prime Minister\u2014the deputy chief of staff\u2014and it goes to the culture that is created in the prime ministerial office\u2014the former Prime Minister: in this case, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern. So these questions are well within scope\u2014they are well within scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat was also in scope was the email that was not released, and I think we all agree on that. And there\u2019s a bit of a question that we need to get to the bottom of, and there needs to be an inquiry into, as to why it was not released, because here\u2019s what happened\u2014and it\u2019s worth recounting the facts. Stuart Nash sits in Cabinet, and Cabinet makes decisions in relation to commercial rent relief, and other members have canvassed exactly what happened there, and David Parker\u2019s just referred to it. Controversial issue, interesting issue being dealt with at the time. Stuart Nash then emails a blow-by-blow account of what happened in Cabinet, to someone outside of Cabinet. Now, that\u2019s bad in and of itself\u2014that is a gross breach of the Cabinet Manual, I think everyone agrees on that. What makes it worse is that the people he emailed were donors to him and to the Labour Party. Double error, double mistake, and that is ultimately why he has been sacked as a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat has been revealed in the last 24 hours or so is that the Prime Minister\u2019s office (PMO) knew about that email. And the reason they knew about that email is because when an Official Information Act request came in from Newsroom a year or so later, specifically naming the donors\u2014it wasn\u2019t a kind of fishing expedition, a bit of a trawl with huge quantities of information\u2014it was quite specific, quite a specific request from Newsroom. It comes in, and Stuart Nash\u2019s office sits down there and goes, \u201CRighty-o, what have we got here?\u201D And at some point this email gets identified, and at some point they decide, better check with the PMO about this. First red flag. And not only did they consult the PMO once, not twice, but thrice\u2014three times there was consultation. This is all on the record. This has all been voluntarily disclosed by the Prime Minister\u2019s office. Three times they consult the Prime Minister\u2019s office, and in the end the email is not released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, is it within the scope of the request? Well, I\u2019ve seen the request now, and I\u2019ve seen the email, and it says basically: all correspondence from Minister Nash, with donors, to Mr Nash and then names the 19 people. Now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5ae0672884404d855d9d75b5fcf669\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Couldn\u2019t be clearer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207405c3fc31b4c6db1e943308f9bc0b6\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It could not be clearer\u2014that\u2019s right, Mr Penk\u2014it could not be clearer. Mr Nash\u2019s email to his donors specifically says, \u201CHere\u2019s what happened in Cabinet.\u201D The only way he could know about that is because he was a Cabinet Minister. So the idea that he did this in his parliamentary capacity is frankly laughable. It is a ludicrous proposition. And what we now know, again\u2014this is all voluntarily disclosed by the Prime Minister\u2019s office. Well done. Bit late, but well done. What we now know is that the Ombudsman\u2019s office only saw a redacted copy of the email\u2014so it was redacted. So presumably it was sent to the Ombudsman\u2014because the complaint was made\u2014who is the sort of arbiter of this, and presumably they said that the information was actually redacted, and I have enough respect for the Ombudsmen\u2019s office to know that if, in fact, Mr Boshier and his staff had seen that they would have said, \u201CUm, no, hang on a minute; excuse me, office of Mr Nash\u2014unnamed public servant.\u201D An email to a donor that goes through a blow-by-blow account of what specific Ministers said in Cabinet that only you and the 19 other members of the Cabinet\u2014plus the Cabinet secretary, I guess, so the 21 people in the room\u2014could know about; that is ministerial correspondence. It doesn\u2019t get much clearer. You know, it is harder to think of an example of something done in your ministerial capacity than information that you relay to someone outside the Cabinet that only you know about because you\u2019re a Minister. It\u2019s a slam dunk. It\u2019s an open and shut case. And that information was redacted. And so the Ombudsman presumably said, \u201COh, well, it\u2019s out of scope. All good, fair enough, move on.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow we get to the nub of the issue. What went on between Mr Nash\u2019s office and the Prime Minister\u2019s office? And it goes to culture, because the staff that saw the email must have known that it was within scope, and they must have known that it should have been disclosed, and they must have known it had a stench about it. And they should have gone up the food chain and said, \u201CHang on a minute, something\u2019s going on here\u2014something is going on here.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo there is an ethical hole at the heart of this Government. There\u2019s been a breach of the Cabinet Manual. There has been a potential breach of the Official Information Act 1982, and there has certainly been a breach of the precepts of good government. That is just absolutely fundamental. And, frankly, we in the National Opposition would far rather be talking about things like education, and infrastructure, and the cost of living. We would. No one actually comes to Parliament to prosecute issues like we are talking about today. But at some level, you have to make a stand. Like we did on the entrenchment stuff at the end of last year; at some level you have to stand up for good government in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is a debating chamber which holds the executive to account. We want to talk about policy. We want to talk about the things we want to do to take New Zealand forward. But, actually, when push comes to shove, you have to stand up for principle. You have to stand up for what matters. You have to stand up for good government, and the rule of law, and ministerial accountability. Stuart Nash should have gone as a Minister, and he has gone. But there are unanswered questions about exactly what went on here, and we are not going to let this drop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022d94c924105ea4cf1bb3568c14b6b9a78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d94c924105ea4cf1bb3568c14b6b9a78\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I think one thing that we can collectively agree on in this House this afternoon is that New Zealanders can expect to have high expectations of those that have been privileged to be put into this role and hold ministerial warrants. What we\u2019ve had this week, it\u2019s not an occasion that you want to rise in this House to speak to\u2014the dismissal of one of your colleagues\u2014but Minister Nash\u2019s actions, they were serious. They were a fundamental breach of the Prime Minister\u2019s trust, of Cabinet\u2019s trust, and, indeed, of the Parliament\u2019s trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe Cabinet Manual clearly expresses the nature and the role of collective responsibility. Indeed, it goes so far as to say it underpins the system of our Cabinet Government. It reflects the democratic principle that the House expresses its confidence in the collective whole of Government rather than in individual Ministers, and we\u2019ve seen over the course of this week where that principle of collective responsibility and, further, that principle of confidentiality have been undermined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo that point, the actions of the Prime Minister were swift. He acted within two hours of knowing, of having that knowledge of that breach of those two fundamental Cabinet Manual responsibilities, those actions of Stuart Nash. Swiftly thereafter, he directed the Cabinet secretary to undertake a review of all of the former Minister\u2019s correspondence with donors to be able to assure the New Zealand public that, yes, you are entitled to have those high expectations and standards upon us, and that he will ensure that whatever further steps need to be taken shall be done through that review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been an interesting afternoon in this House. Actually, I started earlier this morning with the member opposite, Christopher Bishop, speaking probably as the last parliamentarians on the show that was Today FM, with the host that was Tova O\u2019Brien. We had a discussion about these issues that arose with respect to the former Minister. One of the words that arose that struck me this morning was when the member inferred that there was perhaps some conspiracy. We heard that again today in the deputy leader of the National Party during question time, and allegations were put to this House around a conspiracy to cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI find it so appalling that a substantive allegation such as that was made in a House such as this, in absence of any evidence, because what it does is it undermines the trust and confidence that New Zealanders should, rightly, have in this House. We have a series of events that the Prime Minister\u2019s office recorded that\u2019s been put out into the public domain because there simply is nothing to hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIn the course of that disclosure of all of the correspondence and the actions taken by those individuals to give New Zealanders the confidence of what happened, we had a person who cannot and does not have the right or the privilege to speak in this House, because they are a staff member\u2014a person was named; she had to take responsibility for an error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe thing about this particular individual, for those that have had the opportunity to work with her, she\u2019s one of the most humble and honest people you\u2019ll ever have the chance to meet\u2014a really good, good person\u2014and I hate that her name has been tarred in this House by allegations that she was somehow imbued within a conspiracy. It makes me disdain politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E I pray that New Zealanders see through the dog-whistling to a constituency that seeks to find conspiracy in anything and everything. Let\u2019s reflect, all, on our own individual actions. We make mistakes. Sometimes they carry more weight than others, but we\u2019ve all done it, and at the end of the day, we that are Ministers hold the warrant\u2014we that are Ministers have the responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIn this instance, it was Minister Nash that had the responsibility to own those actions for breaching that Cabinet Manual\u2014not anybody else. As a consequence, on finding out that information, the Prime Minister dismissed him. That is a sad day, no doubt, for his family, but it was the right thing to do, and that is all that happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022741381f7cf25463fa2df95018ec4ed0a\u0022\u003ECounter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe522f78ffc54bcdb50fc49f5a4e7028\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc0a6b8e63524dc19c69e87fffd40d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc0a6b8e63524dc19c69e87fffd40d64\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9fd3c3b68c042df8150046e6bbca845\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b75180c9a644fc8f6791e3759cc89b\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe have seen the horrific impact that terrorist attacks have had here in Aotearoa. Four years on from the terror attack on the Christchurch mosques, I want to acknowledge the enduring harm of terror attacks on victims in the broader Muslim community. The evolving threat of terrorism means that our counter-terrorism legislation must be kept up to date to protect our communities. The bill before us is part of the Government\u2019s wider response to the recommendation made by the royal commission of inquiry into the terror attack on Christchurch. It enhances our counter-terrorism legislation by clarifying and strengthening our protections against high-risk individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of the Justice Committee for its diligent consideration of the bill. The committee received 210 submissions of whom four presented an oral submission. I thank those who took the time to provide a submission to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to highlight the key changes the committee made that warrant closer examination. The first part of the bill makes changes to the designation scheme of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 to clarify its application to imprisoned individuals. The second makes amendments to strengthen the control orders regime in the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. These amendments expand the eligibility criteria for a control order, give the courts more discretion when imposing conditions, and adjust the settings related to name suppression. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to start by discussing the first part of the bill\u2014and particularly the role that the Prime Minister has\u2014with its powers to designate a group or individual that has carried out or participated in a terrorist act as a terrorist entity. A designation places restrictions on that group or individual, aimed at preventing them from funding or receiving funds to support further terrorist activities. The bill clarifies the application of the Prime Minister\u2019s power in relation to renewal of a designation of an individual who is imprisoned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EUnder the current law, a prisoner must have their designation removed after three years if it cannot be demonstrated that they present an ongoing risk of terrorist activity. However, when a person is in prison, it is the restrictions placed on them by their designation and incarceration that may prevent them from posing a risk. Were their designation to be removed, they could financially support others in carrying out terrorist acts. So to address this, the bill pauses the expiration of a designation whilst that person is in prison. Instead, a review process is used to ensure the designation is removed if and when it is no longer necessary to prevent them from being able to support terrorism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that many submitters were concerned that the bill gives the Prime Minister too much power in designating entities. It\u2019s important to note that the bill does not change how designations are made\u2014the Prime Minister already has that power to designate\u2014and that there are significant safeguards on how that power is exercised. The bill is focused on clarifying the Prime Minister\u2019s powers in respect of prisoners who are already designated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo I want to acknowledge the changes made to the application of the bill to youth offenders. We know that young people are increasingly targets of extremist groups and subject to radicalisation online. It\u2019s important to ensure we are safeguarding the rights of young people while reducing the risk of terrorist activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe bill originally applied to young people designated as terrorists serving a sentence of imprisonment in a youth justice residence. This was on the basis that youth justice residences have similar restrictions to adult custodial sentencing. The committee received additional advice from officials demonstrating that youth justice residences are more open environments. This means the Prime Minister would be able to more accurately assess whether a designated young person continued to pose a risk of carrying out terrorist acts. As such, the select committee has recommended that the bill should only apply to young people who are in a correctional facility or police custody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESince the bill was introduced in October, the Security Information in Proceedings Act has been passed, and that will come into effect later this year. These Acts provide designated persons with the right to request a summary of classified information when it is used to inform a decision about them. The committee has recommended changes to align the bill with this legislation, as it will commence prior to those Acts coming into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWith respect to the second part of the bill, it amends the control orders regime. Control orders are civil orders made on application by the Police Commissioner and granted by the High Court. The purpose of the control orders is to ensure public safety by imposing requirements on high-risk individuals to minimise their risk of engaging in terrorism. The bill proposes targeted changes that respond to the changing nature of terrorism risk, as well as the lessons learnt from Aotearoa\u2019s first ever control order. These changes include a modest extension of the eligibility criteria for control orders, the removal of automatic name suppression, and giving greater direction to the courts in setting control order requirements in line with similar post-detention orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe committee has not recommended substantive changes to the bill in relation to control orders. I do want to just acknowledge briefly, though, that there is the expansion of the eligibility test with respect to these control orders. I note that this expansion is necessary, given the way that we\u2019ve seen the evolving nature of terrorism, both domestically and internationally. Law enforcement agencies have advised that use of these types of objectionable publications depicting extreme violence and cruelty are markers of terrorism risk. This behaviour and activity has been identified in people who have either been investigated for violent extremism or have committed a terrorist act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo, to reassure the public that there are several protections in the law to ensure control orders are granted only in appropriate circumstances, I provide the example of where a control order can only be granted where an individual has been sentenced for a qualifying offence, and, in addition, is shown to pose a real risk of engaging in terrorism-related activity. This means a control order cannot be sought or granted simply because an individual possesses or distributes an objectionable publication. As such, I consider that this bill strikes the right balance of protecting the public from terrorism and safeguarding those rights to freedom of speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EFinally, the minor technical changes were made to provisions that relate to electronic monitoring requirements as part of the control order, which I won\u2019t get into in much substance this afternoon. I want to again just acknowledge the work of the committee and those that have submitted. I\u2019m confident that this bill will strengthen New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism legislation and enable us to better prevent and respond to terrorism. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022550db2ab389342319eda37094b610595\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022550db2ab389342319eda37094b610595\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Counter-Terrorism Act (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. Can I just acknowledge the Minister; I think that when it comes to national security, this Parliament\u2014certainly since I\u2019ve been in it\u2014has got a history of a very bipartisan approach, certainly amongst the two biggest parties, in terms of making sure that we work constructively on bills that strengthen our national security and deal especially with threats in relation to terrorism. So the Minister, without a doubt, as the incoming justice Minister, embraced that, and I want to acknowledge her and the work that she\u2019s done with our side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt is a good bill. One of the main issues was the fact that a designation could expire while a terrorist was in prison, and without a doubt, from a very pragmatic and common-sense point of view, that had to be fixed and dealt with, and this bill does that. It quite simply means that with that designation, the pause button is hit while that person is in jail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe only other point that I do want to quickly make is, in her opening comments, the Minister alluded to the royal commission of inquiry in response to the tragedy that we had with the Christchurch mosques. I want to acknowledge that there is good work going on in that area, but there were 44 recommendations that came out from the royal commission. To date, there\u2019s only eight of them that have been completed\u2014I do want to recognise that there is work under way on the other ones. But certainly, from my position as being the portfolio holder for counter-terrorism\u2014we don\u2019t talk about it much in this country until we actually have an event, and we\u2019re not immune to them; we\u2019ve had two in the last five years. So I just want to remind the Government to stay focused on this and stay focused on these recommendations and let\u2019s try and get as many of them delivered and complete before the end of the year. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4d14e22f0aa422e812920e8b3911ed6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4d14e22f0aa422e812920e8b3911ed6\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a very complex area of the law that does require a lot of care. So like the previous speaker, the Hon Mark Mitchell, I would like to thank the Minister for bringing it to the floor and through the House; but also the Justice Committee for their work on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI want to speak briefly to one of the tensions that the select committee grappled with as we sought to strike the right balance. It was a concern expressed by submitters about the inclusion of two additional grounds under which a publication may be deemed as \u201Cobjectionable\u201D for the purposes of eligibility. That was seen by some as overreach. Committee members may correct me in later speeches, but my sense was that we over-focused on that issue alone in isolation, when in fact getting to a control order being imposed is a three-door test and the first two doors are about eligibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo door one is really where this bill is widening the eligibility by adding two other types of \u201Cobjectionable\u201D material that don\u2019t directly touch on terrorism. Door two stays the same\u2014and that requires that the Police Commissioner must prove that an individual continues to pose a real risk in terms of engaging in terrorist offences. We needed to see those two doors together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EDoor three is where our judiciary exercises discretion; that\u2019s where they consider the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act; that\u2019s where they consider the appropriate conditions to impose. I think while this is an incredibly hard balance to get right, as the committee started to see all three doors together, we understood that the settings were appropriate for the risks we currently face. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022875fe436db36430ba55531abe4adf6e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022875fe436db36430ba55531abe4adf6e1\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker\u2014I just got tied up in another matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo speaking to the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill, I think that the points that the Minister has made, first of all\u2014and then others, speaking to it\u2014have been well made. I think at this, the second reading, it\u2019s worth reflecting a little bit on the treatment of the subject at the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI note the chair of the Justice Committee, Vanushi Walters, has now resumed her seat, although this was a matter that was discussed at earlier stages within this Parliament. So while she and other members\u2014including, I see, Dr Emily Henderson, among others\u2014considered the bill, I think, for the part that I was able to observe from the outside, so to speak, it seemed to be a good process. It seemed to be one of careful and good-faith consideration of some pretty important issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to step through a couple of those issues, but I\u2019d be remiss if I didn\u2019t begin with an acknowledgment of the fact that in this country, as my colleague and friend Mark Mitchell has said, we are not immune to terrorist attacks. While they are mercifully rare, they are, on the other hand, extremely serious in nature when they occur\u2014most obviously and most tragically, in terms of number of lives lost, of course, we think of the March 15 atrocity at the mosques in Christchurch and we think particularly of those who lost their lives that day, those who live still with the memory of that tragedy, and also those who quickly leapt into action to try to physically defeat the actions of the terrorist and who, no doubt, live still with the memory of that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI emphasise this not to take us far away from the content of the bill, but it\u2019s important context. The reason that it\u2019s important is because Parliament must, as a responsible lawmaking body\u2014if that\u2019s what we are, at least some of the time\u2014consider situations that are extreme, that are unusual, as I said before, mercifully so, but in respect of which there is a risk that is not trivial. And so while we are weighing the restriction on rights that we impose as a State on individuals whom we incarcerate and otherwise deal with in a criminal justice manner, we must be mindful of the huge stakes that are involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThis is, of course, not to say that we should be blas\u00E9 about the human rights involved, but it does go to a weighing exercise. Of course, whenever you\u2019re talking about human rights\u2014and we are talking about human rights, human rights of different parties\u2014it\u2019s important to weigh, in the balance, those competing rights and considerations. And also because the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act specifically invites us\u2014indeed, requires us\u2014to make that consideration when it talks about \u201Cjustified limitations\u201D on the rights contained in that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo in this bill, we see that it\u2019s possible to amend, or that the bill will, in fact, amend the regime that currently exists in relation to designations and control orders for those who have been deemed \u201Cterrorist\u201D. And that\u2019s not a sort of mere use of vernacular to indicate disapprobation; in fact, it\u2019s a technical term. It\u2019s a particular definition or, indeed, designation that is made. So what we\u2019re really grappling with now as a Parliament is the extent to which we can say that a person who already has that designation attached to them can be required to remain in that state for the benefit of the community whose safety will be improved while that person remains in that state and with all the monitoring and restrictions that go along with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOf course, the flip side is that a person who has their liberty deprived\u2014albeit for very, very, very good reasons\u2014nevertheless might say, if they were here, that their rights are being breached. One doesn\u2019t have to be too much of a bleeding-heart liberal to say, \u201CWell, actually, even approaching the matter from, say, a libertarian perspective, the State shouldn\u2019t exercise its considerable power against individuals in a reckless or irresponsible way.\u201D So we say, well, is it reasonable to do as this legislation is doing: restricting a person\u2019s liberty to the extent that we are saying that the designation that they have as a terrorist will continue for longer as a result of this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a retrospective element to some extent, and, as a starting point, no Parliament should actually want to be engaged in retrospective lawmaking, except that sometimes it\u2019s justified. I think it\u2019s important that we do justify it, if we\u2019re engaging in changing of the law in a way that, effectively, looks backwards. We had, as recently as last night, some retrospective or retroactive lawmaking\u2014I can never remember the difference between those, got a number of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281dcf7c2ccf84e01b4ce336fd744d4bf\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Retrospective, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6c2d1bac674687a32fb6ae496ea800\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CRetrospective\u201D, I hear from Marja Lubeck. Do I have any further bids? I\u2019m looking at Duncan Webb, I\u2019m looking to my right, I think I see a wave of the hand. If this were an auction, Arena Williams, you would have just bought a house! But I think you\u2019re probably not engaging in my little game\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd25d24b060494fb30520a592fc6472\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Wrap it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243c880cf35964dbfb39465c4c32a678a\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon me. We should wrap it. Well, I don\u2019t want to look too far backwards, but we\u2019ve had, I think, a pretty good debate on that, actually, so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut retrospective or retroactive, as the case may be, we are saying that the person who\u2019s deprived of their liberty is going to be subject to that designation as a \u201Cterrorist\u201D for longer. So how or why is that the case? Well, the answer is that if a person wants to apply to have that designation revoked, then they can\u2019t say, in effect, that they\u2019re no longer involved in acts that led to or would lead to designation as a terrorist. Well, if they\u2019re in prison, then of course they can\u2019t\u2014or at least they shouldn\u2019t be able to. It would be illogical if we were to say, \u201COh well, you\u2019re not a terrorist any more, you know\u2014by the way, I hope you\u2019re enjoying His Majesty\u2019s accommodation\u2014and therefore we consider you to be a reformed person.\u201D Of course we want a terrorist to be reformed to the extent that they might be rehabilitated and maybe de-radicalised and encouraged and otherwise persuaded not to engage in such evil acts. But the mere fact of them not being able to undertake those acts while they are in prison shouldn\u2019t count to their credit in the determination of whether they are still a terrorist at heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also seeing that the expiry of the designation would be paused. So a designation as a terrorist isn\u2019t indefinite; it\u2019s for a certain period of time, but you don\u2019t get to run out the clock on that designation simply because you\u2019re behind bars for having committed an atrocity\u2014for example, and actually specifically and explicitly, in the case of the March 15 terrorist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe also see here that, as a result of this bill, it will be the case that while a person\u2019s imprisoned, the Prime Minister, no less\u2014he or she at the time\u2014would be required to review every three years whether the designation is no longer justified. I know I\u2019ve engaged in a double negative, and I\u2019m probably far too prone to do that, but the wording, I think, is quite deliberate coming out of the select committee, whereby they\u2019re using the language of the statute to say that the test is whether or not the designation is no longer justified. So that would be on the basis on which the designation as a terrorist would continue to hold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo all of that\u2019s to do with the designation. And then you\u2019ve got control orders. We won\u2019t get through all of those in the available time, but we\u2019ve got, basically, a broader range of objectionable publications, if we\u2019re thinking about what would make a person eligible to be subject to a control order, and also to allow a control order to cover individuals who have been sentenced to home detention or a community-based sentence. So if someone who commits an act that leads them to be designated as a terrorist should have the relative good fortune of being sentenced only to home detention or a community-based sentence, as opposed to being imprisoned in a traditional manner, then they shouldn\u2019t have the benefit also of avoiding a control order, if a control order would be appropriate, given what they\u2019ve done. A control order, in sentence conditions, would be able to apply concurrently, and I don\u2019t have the time to state my own view on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut suffice to say, for the reasons that the Minister has set out and as my colleague Mark Mitchell has emphasised in support, and including the fact that the Minister has engaged diligently in a nonpartisan basis on this, we do support this bill and its continued passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0788b2f481641549d950c7c1ca55590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0788b2f481641549d950c7c1ca55590\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. This is part of the work the Government is doing to boost our counter-terrorism laws to make it harder for people who pose serious threats to New Zealanders or need to unleash terror attacks, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister for bringing this bill to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ENow the terrorism landscape is evolving, and our laws need to reflect this reality as well. So the designations and control orders schemes which are in line with this Government\u2019s commitment to implementing the recommendations of the royal commission of inquiry into the Christchurch terror attacks in Christchurch masjidain is specifically in line with recommendation 18 which is related to counter-terrorism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the regime for imposing control orders in the terrorism suppression Act of 2019. The horrific attacks in Christchurch and LynnMall is a continuous reminder of the devastating consequence of terrorism on our communities and individuals, and these are very important amendments that look to keep Aotearoa New Zealand as safe as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAs young people are active more online, and terror groups are relentlessly looking online to radicalise the young people, we need to futureproof our legislation to make sure that our country is being safe, and this is going to contribute to that as well. I\u2019d like to thank the select committee for the work they have done to scrutinise this bill. I\u2019d like to thank the submitters and the Minister for all their work to actually get this bill today in this House, and I\u2019d also like to thank the contributors from across the House who positively contributed to this. So it\u2019s a good bill; I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00223ea67b85f72b4dc382bf6bb7faa880df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ea67b85f72b4dc382bf6bb7faa880df\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise this afternoon on behalf of my ACT Party colleague Nicole McKee, who sits on the Justice Committee and who has done a lot of good, diligent work on this bill, but wasn\u2019t able to be here this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI\u2019m rising on behalf of ACT to support the second reading of the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. This bill went to select committee in October last year and was reported back in November last year, and it was unfortunate that it was a much shorter select committee than was necessary\u2014it was only four weeks\u2014but it\u2019s great to see that even within that amount of time, over 200 people submitted on this piece of legislation. I\u2019m glad to see that it did get some debate, and I know that the select committee itself was very thorough in its deliberation on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very serious matter. It deals with terrorism in our country and how to counter it. There are two parts to this bill, because it\u2019s trying to seek to clarify and strengthen our counter-terrorism legislation to better prevent and respond to terrorism within New Zealand and any associated activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo the first part of this bill, which it\u2019s hoping to change, is to change the designation regime within the Terrorism Suppression Act to allow the Prime Minister to designate an individual as well as a group as a terrorist entity. That is a very important change, because currently, only groups can be considered terrorist, rather than individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very important change to be made, because as I was reading through the debate pack prepared by the Parliamentary Library, I noted that there have been instances since we first put in place the counter-terrorism laws where we finally have individuals in prison for terrorism offences, but, importantly, we have had tragedies in our own society where individuals rather than groups have been responsible for terrorism. There are two instances of note: those that occurred in Christchurch\u2014the terrible, terrible events in Christchurch\u2014and also a man in New Lynn, and my thoughts go out to all of the families and communities that are still suffering from the ongoing effects of these terrorist activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe bill then tries to clarify what it then means to designate an individual to be part of this law. That\u2019s very important because we finally have people imprisoned, who are individuals, and so we\u2019ve had to define under this law what it means to be imprisoned, and have included people aged between 14 and 17 years in the custody of the Department of Corrections or the New Zealand Police, as well as people who might be locked up in our normal justice system, or what people understand to be in prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThat is very important in order to make sure that we are truly grappling with the proper problem. It\u2019s also very important because the Minister herself has said that \u201CThe terrorist designation scheme was initially brought in to stop New Zealanders from providing financial support to overseas terrorist groups in the wake of the September 11 attacks. Now, as the terrorism landscape has evolved, our laws need to also.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EAnd so we do have people designated as terrorist entities imprisoned, but they still seek to attempt to influence and incite others from behind bars overseas. That could be our reality here in the future. So these laws look at what it means to designate a person, rather than an entity, as a terrorist, and also how that will work for people behind bars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, that also becomes very important because the second part of this bill seeks to change the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act. It allows for a larger range of objectionable publications to be included in the eligibility test for a control order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENow, we know that this has had some concern within the committee because there were submitters who suggested, you know, this could mean that people who might have an illegal online video game but don\u2019t realise that it\u2019s banned could in fact be in breach of a control order. But the officials during the select committee process clarified that being in possession of a banned game would not be enough in itself to warrant a control order on an individual, but a whole set of other criteria also had to be made for that individual to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESo the control orders, through the select committee process, have been extended to cover individuals that have been sentenced to home detention or to community-based sentences, and they\u2019ve allowed the judges more discretion on deciding what the requirements of those control orders should be. So it\u2019s taking into account the fact that every person who may have a control order placed upon them is different, and everyone will have different unique situations and different circumstances that might need to be controlled. So there will be also new protocols for managing electronic monitoring of an individual subject to a control order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThroughout the select committee process, they tidied up the bill a little way to represent some pending enactments in other Acts that they worked on last year. That included changes that were made to the Security Information in Proceedings Act, and aligned those legislative pieces with this bill so that when they all come into force, they will all work together. I think it\u2019s really important that when we are changing our laws, we\u2019re making sure that they work for New Zealanders and they are comprehensive and they work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe committee felt the need to clarify some electronic monitoring requirements. They removed some of the provisions from a schedule and put it into the main body of the bill to insert new clause 19A, which would outline where the limits on the use of electronic monitoring would have been inserted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFinally, when they went through the select committee process, they noted that the Commissioner of Police was the sole and current authority for electronic monitoring. The Department of Corrections also had a major part to play and responsibility for electronic monitoring, so they have been referenced throughout the bill to allow them the authority, as with the New Zealand Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis is a very serious bill in reference to a very serious matter. The ACT Party commends it to the House, and we want to see New Zealand be a safe society where we can suppress terrorism so that all New Zealanders are safe and our laws reflect a way of helping people become rehabilitated while we are keeping New Zealanders safe and we are removing threats of terrorism. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002220b5af05e458453f8ab410bffb97bfd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220b5af05e458453f8ab410bffb97bfd9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption on the next sitting day. This House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday. Can I thank members for their sterling efforts over the last three days. Have a good weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202303303366b92999e94be3ac75559d39f93b5b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"