"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220eae4d08ed204df3937a4b4baee1bd22\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 4 APRIL 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdc5a2bb58f944f9ac1d7e6093c0b869\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 4 APRIL 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3df992831b3469093df76e1c5c1568c\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e7f85ae6de04c42a9182ddc9ada2c5e\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9b833fcc37a443f8aeb078d83baa90b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9b833fcc37a443f8aeb078d83baa90b\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ce4507b7f504c49b8950b0aaa0ee87e\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db8907e3a48240aeb8ec68dbd4e84061\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002234ad9443bbee44f9911b57876b5a745b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234ad9443bbee44f9911b57876b5a745b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022102b53b2a66c4ba8b803978070146547\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022102b53b2a66c4ba8b803978070146547\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Ian Young requesting that the House abolish tolls on all New Zealand public highways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002266a4b94fe4f142f79e24d9026db1168f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a4b94fe4f142f79e24d9026db1168f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00222ca5db4024234b82857b959846d7709e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ca5db4024234b82857b959846d7709e\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPrivacy Commissioner annual report for 2021/22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMinistry of Housing and Urban Development Long-term Insights Briefing, March 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d842631c53ee4f099cff9da88ce0a59e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d842631c53ee4f099cff9da88ce0a59e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba30ccb1468b43e7a32b3337b435af62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba30ccb1468b43e7a32b3337b435af62\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Greg Rzesniowiecki requesting that the House undertake a public inquiry into the national COVID-19 response; report of the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228f02b42e798a48aca4bbb621532f3847\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f02b42e798a48aca4bbb621532f3847\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022833338cd96b94cb79fed3f578d8f67d8\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa9378c474f34ddd9a817e776853faaf\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221df4d4b7c4be4ac3aeb6d88b5f571290\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022424a4437f2f54ca4a26fa0295e03ca89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022424a4437f2f54ca4a26fa0295e03ca89\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b684cc9282b64c65bbc51ddd98aac59e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b684cc9282b64c65bbc51ddd98aac59e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the changes that came into effect on 1 April that mean that 1.4 million New Zealanders are receiving a little bit of extra help with the cost of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf5b5e2b45443c983c991765bb0524f\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement from February that \u201CWe ended last year with strong economic growth.\u201D with the fact that the economy actually shrank at the end of last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb79bcf28c934d07a2805d140775453b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, the numbers have been updated since I made that comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022154e4590d1304058ac83b783168b6cf4\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why has New Zealand just recorded its largest current account deficit on record? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fe58197b237498bb0de3932e3bac938\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, the current account deficit has been a challenge for New Zealand over a longer period of time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428026d088314030a824c1a1eed9deed\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223748b4b3a8604c9588c348567892a731\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Decades, in fact. I recall when we were sitting over there asking questions of the Government of the day over here on a similar issue around the current account deficit. It has been a challenge for New Zealand for some time, but, clearly, global economic conditions are having an impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e941bd2e6c044b2281df6e19c7e7b9c3\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: If it\u2019s all global factors, then why have Kiwi exports grown at less than half the rate of Australia\u2019s over the last two years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7551bf32b3451a929c64c8ad9eb6e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: There are a range of things that have an impact on New Zealand\u2019s exports. One of the things I\u2019m very proud of about this Government is the work that we\u2019ve done around trade, and, for example, the number of our exports covered by trade agreements that have been entered into by this Government has increased significantly. I think we\u2019ve got a pretty proud track record when it comes to improving the trading conditions for New Zealand exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f69f852b8c49539bf7061e73c8e227\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is he taking to turn the current account deficit around, given warnings Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s is considering a credit rating downgrade if the current account deficit and the economy doesn\u2019t recover? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2b37fd7d714bc58796bbfbcd69c49b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the member should have listened to my last question. I\u2019m very proud of the track record of this Government when it comes to improving the conditions for our exporters. Unlike members on the other side who talk a big game when it comes to trade, this Government actually delivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022956114e20b0f4378ba7fbdc3b60a9013\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, has Australia hit peak inflation later and then retreated faster than New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dea3e3e62dc4c17bbd4dc7e3799b3cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand and Australian economies\u2014whilst there are many similarities, there\u2019s also many differences to it. When inflation was lower in Australia, they were decrying the fact that the Australians weren\u2019t going to have the level of inflation that we had, and then their inflation peaked at a higher level than New Zealand\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022597e54d57cf14234ab423888927ba45c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well, where was the answer in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b2eeb65294c4c70aab6b22be9b75ab0\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. How are Kiwis supposed to get ahead when, under his Government, food prices have increased by 26 percent, so a $200 grocery shop now costs more than $250? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cca48e81d70148519778361002956e27\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that New Zealand families are finding it tough and that inflation is biting into household budgets. That is the reason that we put cost of living front and centre of the Government\u2019s priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc7230d87c847d6b78a83fd5379677b\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Hasn\u2019t his Government\u2019s decision to increase spending by $1\u00A0billion a week ensured inflation has remained higher for longer, crushing Kiwis with a prolonged cost of living crisis? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba19ae15fdfd4454abf327c04e15b5da\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there he goes again. He\u2019s saying that teachers don\u2019t deserve a pay rise, nurses don\u2019t deserve a pay rise, and police officers don\u2019t deserve a pay rise and that we shouldn\u2019t expand our health services to keep up with population growth. I note that in almost every policy announcement that he\u2019s made so far, he wants to spend more money on something, but he doesn\u2019t seem to be very clear about exactly how much more he wants to spend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b9b9ce21994470b02cbadbf927bc93\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take any responsibility for rising interest rates that mean a family re-fixing a $400,000 mortgage fixed just two years ago is now on the hook for $300 extra a week in interest? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11059cdea564d2ca30ca49841a6449e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I do note that rising interest rates bite into household incomes. That is one of the reasons why the Government is very focused on the cost of living. Clearly, high levels of inflation are having an impact on interest rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f9e84d73ff4d15a2863927454ae9f8\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s statement made on his behalf last week relating to the email that got Stuart Nash fired in two hours: \u201CMinisters have to sign off Official Information Act requests, and that Minister at the time made the decision that it wasn\u2019t within scope.\u201D, and, if so, what was the purpose of his office being involved in responding to that Official Information Act (OIA) request? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c502ee4aa2794fd8b820b9643296deaf\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the last part of the question, my office wasn\u2019t involved; my predecessor\u2019s office was involved in that particular request. In answer to the first part of the question, yes, I expect all Ministers, when they are signing off OIA requests, to take responsibility for what they are signing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801258f5bd3a4346893883ec8ea90beb\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Surely the Prime Minister\u2019s office is continuous throughout the Government, rather than changed each time there\u2019s a new person in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1276dbf6764f16997921fdd1b06392\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That had at least two legs to it, and the Prime Minister did address at least one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b98312c19de47baa621a514a08661f4\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817a39accbc84d0c8ba0e640077cf673\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In what way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d627cebeb51a49058e28464780c4a2e6\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re absolutely right, but having addressed the second leg of the question, the answer does have to be within the Standing Orders, and, indeed, consistent with your ruling of a couple of weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221734738de6e84795b02b7d301e0aca9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: My original ruling stands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f3f79ce8ff14ecea169bd0d1a2de9bf\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How will any new rules for lobbyists work if Ministers just refuse to release official information for two years, even when the Prime Minister\u2019s office knew all about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c55fac2ee94b27940b4a0d4b3a1eb8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The rules around increased transparency around lobbying are something that I hope we can reach a greater degree of bipartisan consensus about. There has not been support across the House for increased transparency around lobbying in the past. It would appear that there is now, and, therefore, I think we can make a lot of progress on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a778b07f98a14456b12acf2443a23809\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister confirm today that he will join other leaders in a cross-party effort to amend the Official Information Act by adding penalties for deliberate breaches of it, like 72 other countries have, as I wrote to him and requested just today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d620632182784ad4bd99d217c583527f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to read the member\u2019s letter and come back to him in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8046059e73743ddb9afd1f9ea4810f0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister confirm that he will work with other parties to add penalties for deliberate frustration of the Official Information Act or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa951fb2b7b484e9791fd4e2d2ff4cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not something that the Government has made decisions on. In terms of our work around the Official Information Act, our priority has been to increase compliance with the Official Information Act, and the record will show that timeliness of OIA responses has improved under this Government, proactive publishing of Official Information Act requests has improved under this Government, and proactive release of information has improved\u2014in fact, been put in place\u2014under this Government, and continues to improve. The proactive release of ministerial diaries, something the previous Government never did, has been put in place under this Government. I think our track record is a good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c709124c50441d88637556d1d8b7a03\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the problem that his Government is guilty of not complying with the OIA, such as when Minister Kiri Allan texted Labour MPs asking them not to email Ministers in case it became discoverable under the OIA, and then ran special sessions to help people get around it; and is that not the reason why he\u2019s talking about lobbying, because the real smoking gun is his own office\u2019s interference with and non-compliance in the Official Information Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0034e76ade245b48fb34bc55609c928\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022428d5dbc49954fd5acd89d289d4b9947\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u002240a9b218c9e64eb99c966d56e6c40753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240a9b218c9e64eb99c966d56e6c40753\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What action is the Government taking to decarbonise New Zealand\u2019s economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb6f3882a80b4bb2992a61ffbdcb9d7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb6f3882a80b4bb2992a61ffbdcb9d7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is working hard to decarbonise New Zealand\u2019s economy, to reduce costs for consumers and businesses, and to meet our climate goals. This requires an integrated policy response from the Government, from partnering with businesses to electrify their operations through the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund (GIDI) to boosting the number of electric vehicles. And we\u2019re making it easier to build the generation needed to power our electrified economy by removing consenting barriers through the reform of the Resource Management Act and the national policy statement (NPS) on renewable electricity generation. The NPS work is all but complete, and I\u2019m pleased to say it will be released within the month. There\u2019s plenty more work to do, but we\u2019ve made good progress and we\u2019ll continue to make the real action to decarbonise New Zealand through electrification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225055be1403c84d05a0407e7f2f739987\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government supporting the energy sector to deliver more renewable electricity generation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb875754cb84bf28d69ed74b8ff95eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Today, New Zealand\u2019s electricity is 88 percent renewable, with a peak of 94.7 percent. According to the Electricity Authority, there are 2,609 gigawatt hours of new generation committed to in 2022. Transpower has received a record number of inquiries for connection: a total of 124 for this financial year. That\u2019s double the previous year, and\u2014for comparison\u2014they received just five inquiries in 2018-19. However, we simply cannot just add more intermittent generations, such as wind and solar, without adding firming or baseload. To do so would not only show a complete lack of understanding of the energy sector but also would be a plan without a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a556d6c9d31425e9de8220734fbaf92\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government stimulating demand for electricity as part of its plan to decarbonise the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022392b8f74e5aa4163b3a12d8efda552b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: We all know that to electrify New Zealand, there must be both the supply and demand for renewable electricity. With thousands of megawatts of new renewable electricity generation in the pipeline, we need to give the private sector the confidence to progress these projects. That\u2019s why we\u2014this Government\u2014is working with businesses to electrify their operations. From food processors to building product manufacturers, our partnerships through the GIDI fund will accelerate their decarbonisation journey through electrification. Industrial and process heat make up roughly a third of our energy emissions. Over the first three rounds, $63 million of GIDI funding has been allocated across 51 major industrial decarbonisation projects. This has catalysed over $100 million in private funding. These projects will increase demand for electricity while reducing emissions\u2014the equivalent of taking 130,500 cars off the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e1208d6aa546f8bb47c0ce163ab91a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That answer was far too long. I expect the next one to not be as long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d02315ae48a4877a888f0d11bb1616d\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s plan for a dry year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290145edc4f5f49a792a7e7cb5b34933b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In order to electrify New Zealand, you have to have a means of storing energy. If you were not to do so\u2014as the recent Boston Consulting Group report has shown\u2014the cost by 2050 would be $60 billion. That is why our Government is undertaking the New Zealand Battery Project to look at how we can do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224725330636a2441f9cf732828dc4c457\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the comments of Contact Energy, that the single biggest threat to new renewables is the Government\u2019s Resource Management Act reforms and, quote, \u201CWe could kiss goodbye our decarbonisation goals if they proceed\u201D, and will the Minister legislate to make sure that renewable projects are consented within one year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022335335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228057ffa045f944beb5ac22cd0c419b7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I did see those comments, and of course, those comments were on an early stage of the bill. Our Government has been working constructively with the electricity and the energy sector to ensure we have been working through what issues need to be addressed in the forthcoming legislation. I suggest the member talks to some of his caucus members who are on the relevant select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022118443fde4bf46e78fe0bf494a07302c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Oceans and Fisheries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb04854ed9cb4c42b1e460347e09479f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb04854ed9cb4c42b1e460347e09479f\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he think that fisheries management is ensuring sustainable fisheries and healthy and abundant marine life in New Zealand waters; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229794b4afa31b47cb8120716d31f19f4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229794b4afa31b47cb8120716d31f19f4a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Acting Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yes, I am confident New Zealand\u2019s fisheries management supports the sustainable use of our fisheries resources and effectively manages the impacts of fishing. Our fish stocks are generally in good shape and we are progressing an extensive work programme to protect the health of our marine environment. However, there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269fea4aa88384a689ced413f8899fa39\u0022\u003EHon Eugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Are single stock assessments fit for purpose when fish are part of an ecosystem and Aotearoa New Zealand has agreed to the Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework, which calls for the reversal of biodiversity decline?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e238d8b4bc9e4861bd9d2b6c4344e032\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Single species stock assessments aren\u2019t the be-all and end-all but they are an important part of the system because when\u2014if you do one of those assessments\u2014you find a stock is depleted, you most certainly have to move to restore its abundance. None the less, there are other more ecosystem-wide issues such as maintaining the likes of lobster or crayfish stocks to ensure that you don\u2019t have kina barrens, which have become unfortunately common off the East Coast of the upper North Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276fee8df3c814ba49ef9f893ad495873\u0022\u003EHon Eugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the numbers of New Zealand sea lion\u2014the world\u2019s rarest sea lion\u2014are falling, with trawl fishing for squid; if so, does he agree that an ecosystem approach is needed for future decisions on squid catch in New Zealand waters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228823a8e9630a4c58a1b5285091691be0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of sea lion captures, there have been improved technologies deployed in recent years which have enabled sea lion captures to be largely avoided through exit routes for sea lions that get caught in a trawl. That has significantly reduced the number of sea lions which have been caught as bycatch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b96010aeff774bf29bcc8f31d19d7a33\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe the Government\u2019s roll-out of cameras on fishing vessels, which has imposed a $10 million cost on the fishing industry and a $68 million cost on taxpayers to install just 35 cameras since 2019, has been a success from the point of view of taxpayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bf2ce278c884abebdd2064105ac360f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The initial cameras on boats that were rolled out were put in the area where there were most likely to be captures of M\u0101ui dolphins, and that was appropriate. The Government has let a contract with, amongst others, Spark, to roll out cameras on boats more widely. There have been some delays in the implementation of that, but those issues are being worked through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f39fd0197eae49a1b4daaa07745c4bd0\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What advice, if any, has he received about the continued decline in the health of T\u012Bkapa Moana, the Hauraki Gulf, and its potential contribution to widespread starvation amongst snapper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297aa8adfd47d493da7189af19224f92c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the milky snapper issue that\u2019s currently in the media, the fisheries division of the Ministry for Primary Industries are likely to conduct some research through the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research to try and establish what is the cause of that. In respect of the health of the Hauraki Gulf, it is true that there has been a long-term decline in the health of the Hauraki Gulf, which of course is situated next to New Zealand\u2019s largest city, Auckland. The Sea Change or Hauraki Gulf plan is intended to remedy that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226067e135bdd34201b1647e7759fe6943\u0022\u003EHon Eugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: What role does he see for a precautionary approach in helping restore the health of the Hauraki Gulf T\u012Bkapa Moana and its snapper populations, and would such an approach involve phasing out bottom trawling and other bottom contact methods to protect the shellfish beds that are part of what snapper eat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c941d430204436b41f2c514f0e3a29\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be aware that when she was the Minister of Conservation in the last Labour - Green - New Zealand First Government, she approved of the Sea Change proposals, which did have the continuation of trawl corridors in parts of the Hauraki Gulf. The consultation that is now taking place is not as to whether or not there should be trawl corridors\u2014that was dealt with in the member\u2019s consultation\u2014it\u2019s where they should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e0a1f89e994476ab5270e1cdc6cbae\u0022\u003EHon Eugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider fast tracking work on proposed new marine protected areas in the Hauraki Gulf as a precautionary response to crayfish being functionally extinct, scallop populations collapsing, and widespread reports of snapper starving; and, if so, will he raise the level of marine protection to 30 percent of the marine park?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc6db8c16f748bcb16c15c17059a69c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the scallop point, the member will be aware that I actually led the closure of those fisheries around New Zealand, sadly, because the scallop fishery has collapsed. In respect of crayfish issues off the East Coast of the North Island, I\u2019ve already referenced that. But, no, we don\u2019t have a plan to lift the marine protected areas to the percentage the member recommended in the Hauraki Gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9fe5913aef44b51a623424f245732be\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1e86de8f8e045218e40b4fb9334fe4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1e86de8f8e045218e40b4fb9334fe4e\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What impact, if any, is the rising cost of living and rising interest rates having on New Zealanders and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226d145e5aeba44e39a05403c1ef85e573\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d145e5aeba44e39a05403c1ef85e573\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The cost of living and associated impacts have been tough on many New Zealand families. These impacts will differ from person to person and family to family. That\u2019s why this Government has taken significant steps to continue helping them out. This includes the changes on 1 April that will assist 880,000 pensioners, who get a boost to their super, including: 5,000 veterans; 52,000 students seeing an increase in their allowance or loan living costs; a quarter of a million workers receiving a wage rise as the minimum wage is increased to $22.70; and 345,000 families better off through Working for Families. The year 2023 is a tough time for many New Zealand families, but all of these are meaningful improvements which will help them, and all of which the Opposition voted against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df64f4ec6d08464f93fdc0834c9315ec\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister considered that a New Zealander with an average outstanding mortgage balance of $482,000 who is re-fixing their mortgage this year to an interest rate roughly double what it was will need to find an extra $630 to service their mortgage every fortnight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12c4ac3c6c44ceba49b882fc2c424e9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Circumstances will differ from case to case, depending on the type of loan that\u2019s been taken out, but absolutely; there are people who are re-fixing their mortgages for whom there is a significant additional cost. That\u2019s the reason why I am both proud of the things that we\u2019ve done to support low and middle income families and also note that the average annual household income from wages and salaries increased by 8.7 percent in the year ending June 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef783bca475496e89f588f39848f3d8\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that a growing number of New Zealanders are unable to meet their mortgage payments, with those in arrears up 23 percent in the past year alone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2494ff41b734f5dbdd6edd99c32d5ce\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m always concerned about whether or not New Zealanders have got the resources they need to make ends meet. That\u2019s why I\u2019m pleased that wages have been keeping up with inflation and why I\u2019m pleased that the Government has put more resources into supporting New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9cad5934424cdb8cd0f82ea1411395\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What is his explanation for why Australia\u2019s inflation and interest rates are lower than New Zealand\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266be269a1b724652b28f440d1e0dbb79\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: This has already been covered in the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be8c930c8874050ac03d8ba91acbd75\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, it wasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e654c340940407897893afac680db23\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014answered by the Prime Minister\u2014well, it was\u2014but, clearly, Australia\u2019s inflation rate actually peaked higher than New Zealand\u2019s. The economic cycle in Australia and New Zealand are in different places, but New Zealand\u2019s economy is very well placed to deal with the situation we\u2019re in. I would note that, as at December 2022, New Zealand had the 11th lowest inflation rate out of 38 OECD countries. That doesn\u2019t make it any easier for people who are facing increased costs, but this is a global phenomenon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1728a402d284cfb847f5e1d12dbd276\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think the explanation he just gave will satisfy 5,000 nurses signing to work in Australia or the many patients missing them in their hospitals and GP clinics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9b4136bd5b74dbfad0b25831569268a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: You better ask the Prime Minister that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230970b3fbf94d26bc7d9f8418c592fc\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t see how it\u2019s addressing a question to say that \u201CYou should ask someone else that question.\u201D I mean, if that\u2019s addressing a question, then no one\u2019s going to have to answer anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df804867cb54b3eab0608a4459bcb5a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When you go back and read Hansard, you\u2019ll see why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7d1c998dbd486ba7134b046c258660\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that in addition to Australia\u2019s inflation rate being lower than New Zealand\u2019s today, it was also lower than New Zealand for nine out of 12 months last year; and isn\u2019t it an indictment on his economic management when two-thirds of small and medium sized businesses polled in the most recent business monitor by MYOB say they are \u201Cdissatisfied\u201D with his Government\u2019s performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7bdf97d6644d69815978680de54008\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s been a history of that particular monitor that the member might like to go over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e596cde3d94713bf0a4e41835a60c1\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, they don\u2019t like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a466521ad41e4722aa257118fa2f870b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and have a look at relative performances. But, Mr Goldsmith, the only time I went in front was when you were the finance spokesperson. [Laughter]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f070638d18a04607bdeddf2f7a5060e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b517e60605464359bdca5c41d63e1519\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned by statements made by Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s recently saying that New Zealand was \u201Ccatching our attention\u201D because of the \u201Cpersistently weak and worsening current account position of the New Zealand sovereign, particularly given that it has been quite weak the last year or two\u2026\u201D, and the rating could come under pressure, and what urgent steps is the Minister taking to address this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ef1aade4a5f4b9eb275bcf38aad1296\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would note\u2014yes, I did see those comments\u2014is that New Zealand is one of the few countries that during the COVID period had our credit rating increased. We will always continue to monitor New Zealand\u2019s economy to ensure that we get the balance right. But I think you can see by the ratings that we have earned over recent years that New Zealand\u2019s economy is seen in the world as well managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b4b1ea396b14fcfbb4e9b33c55576f9\u0022\u003EHon Eugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order. Thank you. Mr Speaker. In Minister Parker\u2019s answer to my previous questions, he said that I was part of the Government involved in releasing Revitalising the Gulf\u2014Government action on the Sea Change Plan. That strategy, in response to the Sea Change - Tai Timu Tai Pari Hauraki Gulf Marine Spatial Plan was released in June 2021. It was during the term of the current Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f90a4a2916443dac41eb2e12c1ceea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not really a point of order, but however.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b932f35ffeb41f8a7ecd371b69a8246\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that after-tax incomes grew by an average of 6.2 percent last year compared with inflation that grew at 7.2 percent, and when will he do the obvious thing and cut taxes on working families so they can keep more of their own hard-earned money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba44c9e4ad244c50a5333f09577591e0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said in my earlier answer, there\u2019s a number of ways that we can measure where people are at in terms of their income, and the average annual household incomes from wages and salaries actually grew by 8.7 percent. When it comes to the second part of the question around the member\u2019s policy on tax cuts, he\u2019s utterly entitled to those ideas. On this side of the House, we know that it\u2019s important to keep a balance here and make sure we actually look after our low and middle income New Zealanders. I know the member doesn\u2019t think the people who earn the minimum wage count, but we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15db20df4ea4984b3f1a629055c5272\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that income taxes average 22 percent of all income earned, up from 20 percent when he first became finance Minister, and when will he do the obvious thing and cut taxes so families can keep more of their hard-earned money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f951c18271bb4a28838bbf6d14e54762\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: When it comes to the way we compare taxes, I invite the member to take a look at the OECD\u2019s tax wedge, which actually takes into account overall tax burden\u2014in which situation New Zealand compares very well to the rest of the world. In answer to the second part of the question, what I said before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022464f88d272a84d55918a82c80f558306\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6671569ff1d42619a22f4fd855f28ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6671569ff1d42619a22f4fd855f28ac\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What reports has she seen on how the Government\u2019s tutoring package is delivering for M\u0101ori and Pacific students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00222782ce588f654d82a39e7f1847e73a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222782ce588f654d82a39e7f1847e73a3b\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E We know the disruptions caused by COVID-19 have had a huge impact on the education of our young people, and that is why we have funded $20 million towards tutoring programmes to support students whose learning has been disrupted due to the pandemic. This included targeted programmes for M\u0101ori and Pacific students, and we are getting results. With hundreds of M\u0101ori and Pacific learners supported, each learner has gained an additional 22 to 25 credits on average as a result of these programmes. The programmes are based on research from the past two decades that tells us of the optimum learning environments for M\u0101ori and Pacific learners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a54e0fa04d64298a16185c891cce830\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: How were the tutoring programmes run, and what was delivered for M\u0101ori and Pacific students specifically?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0be3bb185f44fbb8294f01f8d29d21f\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: A range of academic support was provided, including w\u0101nanga, noho marae, exam revision, one-on-one mentoring, tutoring, and homework centres. The \u0101konga support programme consisted of seven iwi-led initiatives focused on year 10 to 13 students and supported 1,143 M\u0101ori learners to progress in their NCEA aspirations. The Pacific learners support programme delivery to date has supported 863 Pacific learners through eight intensive support programmes and 20 weekly support programmes across Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e077ab021e4d69b9eb4e1884da49cb\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: How has the tutoring package helped M\u0101ori and Pacific students attain NCEA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2863a1325e34827a0f0df8a13a1a54e\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: For M\u0101ori students, a total of 19,297 credits have been gained by the students participating. For the Pacific learners support programme, 9,138 credits have been gained. And I\u2019d like to note that, on average, Pacific learners had more than doubled their initial credits by the end of the programme\u2014an amazing result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf14eb550c7b4b7ba8de4504103ad941\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has been received by participants of the programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0d863eec3c54c2f92c40b3769e005ec\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We have had some wonderful feedback come through from students who have been part of the tutoring programmes. One participant stated, \u201CI am very confident and have learnt more with NCEA, and I\u2019m proud to be coming back.\u201D The parent of another stated, \u201CMy daughter put down her success to these aspects of the programme: a relaxed environment, Pacific teachers were around to give her confidence.\u201D Te Pou Oranga o Whakat\u014Dhea reported 85 percent of their students achieved NCEA level 1\u2014the best result the college has had in years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d23e0110922a4e7db5519b6547568b9d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4418839480c463d856a1a17c1e583a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4418839480c463d856a1a17c1e583a9\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does she agree with Rob Campbell, former chair of Health NZ, that the health reforms are \u201Chalf-baked\u201D and that the Government should declare a \u201Chealth crisis worthy of a crisis response\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00228d448014adca4846b228c375c68d077f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d448014adca4846b228c375c68d077f\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E No, a new national health system will help more people get better services closer to home, tackle health inequalities by working in partnership with M\u0101ori, and help New Zealanders live longer, healthier lives. The need for reform is clear. Turning around under-resourcing and inequities will take years, but we make progress every day. Our health system has been through a crisis\u2014it\u2019s called a pandemic\u2014and has delivered some of the best outcomes in the world. However, I acknowledge it continues to face significant pressures, and that\u2019s why I\u2019ve set priorities for Te Whatu Ora around winter preparedness, workforce, and wait-lists. Our national health system has the power to tackle the complex problems our system faces, and there is urgent work under way to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bdb2ece73e14eb59783daed8a0bed6d\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister who, when asked, in response to Rob Campbell\u2019s speech, \u201CWhat part of the health reforms are actually working?\u201D, gave elective surgery as an example, stating that elective surgery was working in a more productive way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817ac84c34fa481a864289a9e389c702\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with that comment. Elective surgery is working in a more productive way. For example, we are no longer tolerating the way in which M\u0101ori would be bumped off waiting lists because of the systemic way in which they were ignored by our health system. We have a number of responses to the reset and restore task force that is under way, that it will deliver improved care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c908de5752c483da2e4eadb38c6054d\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to a Dunedin Hospital radiation oncologist who is reported as saying, \u201CDon\u2019t get cancer in Dunedin.\u201D because the staffing crisis has forced the hospital to suspend services for people with brain tumours and gynaecological cancers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddff054d78614726a5b971cae3fcd2da\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am concerned about the situation for radiation oncology and what I can say is that whereas that DHB might have been left, in the past, to deal with that situation individually, we now have a national health service that is coordinating across specialists around the country to make sure those people get the care they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220313ce73b05a44b2a1a7969ec8419dbb\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the previous chair of Health New Zealand, Rob Campbell, absolutely right when he says that the health reforms have been excessively focused on Wellington, who turned their backs on the citizens they serve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dd90fbc072b4704ad85549d201cac63\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not, and I look at the Pae Ora legislation and the numerous avenues we are giving to community voice in the health system\u2014for example, through the rural health strategy; for example, through iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards and the work of localities. It will be a better system for community and patient voice than we ever had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b452b8c17a34c3290456b2662bbfc40\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a good outcome for New Zealanders that after spending tens of millions of dollars on consultants to reform a health system that now has the most number of people ever on wait-lists, the previous chair states that the health reforms are half-baked and that the interim health plan is \u201Chighly compromised\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c565d7ed8b8b45a59f8e3de447b44816\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, that member was criticising the reforms for existing at all; this week he is on the side of someone who says they don\u2019t go far enough. He should make up his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226befb9408a00431f870b4041f093dca8\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to Rob Campbell\u2019s statement that Health New Zealand \u201Cin its current form cannot deliver the level of radical change which is required\u201D and \u201CInadequacy and things which are just plain wrong will persist\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b78be38a28f442e9c686c52045c8f27\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: If we want to go into all of Rob Campbell\u2019s statements, then I think the matter that led to Mr Campbell\u2019s having to leave his role\u2014if I remind the member of that\u2014was because he was taking pot-shots at that party. So, no, I do not believe that is the case at all. There needs to be a clear plan. I have set expectations as Minister that Te Whatu Ora is focused on winter, workforce, and wait-lists\u2014the things that matter to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220cf0081363084b2f93c82c19be3f32a8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u002224b14b1245b5434aa415aebc52dd8441\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224b14b1245b5434aa415aebc52dd8441\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made about building a futureproofed transport network for Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022947f1fb863d64bfcb0d6d4ee8ee91cda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022947f1fb863d64bfcb0d6d4ee8ee91cda\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the Prime Minister and I released five scenarios for a second Auckland Harbour crossing, including both bridge and tunnel options. Aucklanders and businesses have made it clear that the biggest barrier to the success of Auckland is persistent congestion after years of inaction. We\u2019re on track to fix that. It\u2019s vital that we have a harbour crossing that works for Aucklanders, reducing congestion and emissions by providing more transport choices for Auckland commuters. Additionally, on Saturday, I turned the first sod\u2014along with the mayor\u2014on the Eastern Busway, which will see massive savings in travel times between Botany and the central city. Together, these projects show that the Government is serious about delivering a linked-up, low-carbon transport network for the people of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8b059e91944025a5ea960378f23823\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What are the five scenarios that are being consulted on publicly for the second harbour crossing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33d0c7c7b524e8099f30d5ba5c58f8b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The five scenarios cater for all modes of travel. Each scenario will include a new walking and cycling link across the Waitemat\u0101, a new light-rail link that will connect Auckland light rail in the city centre and will build generations of resilience into State Highway 1. Some of the scenarios include new tunnels across the harbour through Northcote, Devonport, or the central motorway junction to Esmonde Road, and others include new bridges; some include a combination of both. The scenarios also include ways to connect growing residential and business hubs on the North Shore. I encourage all Aucklanders who are serious about these issues to look at the scenarios online and have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823540db2ad64f78ad369218f60363ea\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: How will Aucklanders benefit from the Government bringing forward the delivery of a second harbour crossing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299540ac4d2fa4b469531180d5817b7dd\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The previous version of the Auckland Transport Alignment Plan that was put in place in 2016 planned for a second crossing in the 2040s. We don\u2019t think that\u2019s good enough for Aucklanders and we\u2019re bringing work forward on the crossing so that construction can begin in 2029. Benefits of the project will include more transport choices for commuters, faster travel times, and increased resilience during extreme weather events. A new rapid transit connection from the city centre to the North Shore will fully integrate with other projects, including Auckland light rail and rapid transit to the north-west, to allow people to travel seamlessly across Auckland. Once we\u2019ve received Aucklanders\u2019 feedback, we\u2019ll be confirming a preferred option by the middle of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226552607a537f4fce8345126ad5d4c171\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will the Eastern Busway deliver for Aucklanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc0e1fa9aa94c4b8b85a9b65c6207bb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I was very pleased to help dig the first sod on the next stage of the Eastern Busway between Pakuranga and Botany on Sunday of this weekend. The project will deliver five kilometres of a new separated busway, five new bus stations, 20 minutes of commuter savings between Botany, town centre, and Britomart, and 12 kilometres of safe and separated walking and cycling routes. Overall, it will provide faster travel times and more reliable bus services for Auckland\u2019s eastern suburbs. Along with our other investments, like Auckland light rail and the second harbour crossing, our investment in the Eastern Busway shows that our Government is committed to building a linked-up, low-carbon transport system for all Aucklanders, and it\u2019s been very much welcomed by the good people of Pakuranga and Botany.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f8b9ee97ad24b13a19eaceb07b64203\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00221f039401fa50493c857bc6375e7cd0a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f039401fa50493c857bc6375e7cd0a2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201Cmy number one focus is to make sure New Zealanders feel safe\u201D, and what percentage of youths who commit retail crime face court action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227ba63af0889e4ca9b10e1a57389a46c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ba63af0889e4ca9b10e1a57389a46c4\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. As Minister of Police, I want to ensure that every New Zealander feels safe. Of the 481 youth or under-18s who\u2019ve had proceedings against them for burglary offences in retail locations between February and October 2022, 234 have faced court action, 112 have had a family group conference, five have been referred to youth aid, 35 have had warnings, two have been referred to Te Pae Oranga, and 94 have not had further action taken against them. This highlights that our youth justice system aims to keep children and young people out of the formal criminal justice system. Steering young people away from a life of crime and ensuring that they don\u2019t get caught up in the justice system increases the chances they will reach their full potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1200866624241d2ba6a00314ccd5901\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Were Police too slow to roll out the retail crime prevention fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8c0f6a114a4de6bb41350860e8c22c\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Police have gone a good job in terms of the retail crime prevention fund, and it has been promising to see that the uptake is now over 2,000 of those interventions that have taken place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022776dad35b63043baacafcecec1487564\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question was very clear, short, and concise: were Police too slow to roll out the retail crime prevention fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacc40817a3c40998e03b5901c79a40a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pretty sure the Minister said no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f73c193f644efa846679a21dbe98e7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister said no, then does she agree with the Prime Minister, who said in response to a question around the retail crime prevention fund, \u201Cpolice could have been faster [in] rolling that out,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efea19ad5f31413493ab1fd93f012b11\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: To be clear, what I said was that Police have rolled out 2,352, to be precise. Of the eligible stores across both programmes, which is the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment fog cannon scheme, there have been a large number of interventions in that space. As of 30 March 2023, there\u2019s been a whole range of interventions provided, and I am pleased with the speed of the roll-out in both of those schemes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d922820da714e3aac81100cfd7ac790\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m just seeking your guidance. Both the police Minister and the Prime Minister have been critical of the Police and their roll-out of the retail crime prevention fund. I have asked a question on notice, and then I\u2019ve asked a very clear, succinct question to the Minister. They said that she answered that\u2014I didn\u2019t hear any answer to either of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e4468fddee466ab3a0fc61ec1fac10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was my interpretation of what I heard\u2014I possibly should have said it had been addressed. But, in the way the Minister addressed it, it sounded like \u201Cno\u201D to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808181153dc0444ead5ad044fb1cc97f\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Could Police have been faster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d275933744da4e08b51dbe34478ab62d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has noted that the initial roll-out was slow, and I tend to agree with that. But, now, as Minister of Police, in the time I have been in place, I am happy with the fact that 2,352 have been rolled out across New Zealand in addition to the fog cannon scheme, which has been rolling out incredibly well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22350b7db4641908dee2e7583151832\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair for Labour politicians to blame the Police for the slow roll-out and the knee-jerk political reaction to a tsunami of retail offending, given that Police warned that it would take several months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b0ea90a06e4981a21f755a355ad06d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s not responsible for addressing what other members of Parliament say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfd9352417c84766be6f1fcaee21a44b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00222515c4752a84415c8e9999a7f4f0c9a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222515c4752a84415c8e9999a7f4f0c9a1\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: How much money has been spent in total on transport policies that have been cancelled or re-scoped by this Government, and how much of this, if any, has been spent on consultants and contractors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfd3677529f84a6d965a670bbce12606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfd3677529f84a6d965a670bbce12606\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised that across the four transport policies that were cancelled or re-scoped as part of the reprioritisation of the Government\u2019s work programme in March, approximately $4,040,000 was spent, of which approximately $1,807,000 was contractor or consultant spend. This reprioritisation has enabled approximately $600 million of savings to be realised, which have the potential to be invested in other priorities, particularly carbon emission reduction projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800e0bd01b2a44b195d519924f38da85\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that as at 28 February 2023, $726,000 had been spent on the cancelled clean car upgrade programme with not a single car upgraded, and that\u2019s $287,000 more than what was reported in Stuff this morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022521f40c2761a487d9e1f1a3edbc0dbb8\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I can refer the member back to my primary answer, which gave an overall cost for the programmes that we reprioritised. If the member wants confirmation of individual projects and he wants to approach my office, I\u2019m happy to provide that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa7f45b6a587439082209d00d8fb98fb\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that \u201CWaka Kotahi expects further costs to be incurred over the coming months as the clean car upgrade programme is closed down.\u201D and, if so, what is the total estimated amount to close down this programme which has delivered nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddeb6386d12417c96a7990cdbcb8e35\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: When programmes and projects are reprioritised there sometimes will be closing-out costs which have to be incurred; that will be worked through in the coming period in respect to this one. Overall, New Zealanders appreciate the fact that our Government took a hard-nosed look at our programme and has made reprioritisations in order to ensure that we get the best benefits for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c585b7fb46d44057b7f1e40d78adc947\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t consider the Minister has addressed the question sufficiently. It was a question about how much will it cost to wind down the programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eff5872079d448c0bfb5f42ed12a09e0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e7d8f6c9ea4e248f8241a457c4baa6\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, as at 31 October 2002, he had spent $38\u00A0million on the now cancelled speed-limit reduction programme which less than a third of Kiwis supported; and what is the estimated amount to wind down this programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c318746dda9a436ebba83b4556a20eba\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Waka Kotahi and local government are the agencies which are responsible for managing speed limits across the State highway and local roading network. They continue to have that role under statute. The Government has confirmed that there will be a focus on the 1 percent of roads where the highest level of harm occurs in Waka Kotahi\u2019s future works. So it is wrong to say that that work is not continuing at all. As I said earlier on, the Government does believe that reprioritising\u2014looking closely at our spending\u2014is a valuable thing to do. Had the previous National-ACT Government done that a bit earlier they might not have spent $30 million building a sheep farm in the Saudi desert. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298fcab1f914248139701f8b03e47b813\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. There were two legs to the question: can he confirm $38 million spent and what will be the remaining expenditure to be wound up? He didn\u2019t come close to addressing either of those; he just gave generalities about who is responsible for speed limits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f758d6a06ef48509c07d87a073bced7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019ll give the member two extra questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed280efb581844708c429deccb56e2bd\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister think that spending $569 million on a \u201Ccash for clunkers\u201D scheme to reduce emissions at a cost of up to $1.138 million a tonne\u201421,000 times more expensive than the emissions trading scheme\u2014was a good idea in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8e7b8da06949f18e3237e2c5575d25\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made investments and policy decisions to clean up New Zealand\u2019s dirty vehicle fleet. We have made exceptional progress in that area and we have turned vehicles coming into New Zealand\u2019s fleet from being some of the dirtiest vehicles on average in the world to being some of the cleanest vehicles in the world, on average, through our Clean Car Programme. The clean car upgrade that the member refers to was designed to ensure that lower-income New Zealanders were able to access the benefits of cleaner vehicles, but we\u2019ve decided that there are better ways of achieving that outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd740a07dc448248f431f1c8e17cf47\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Would spending tens of millions of dollars on cancelled speed limit projects, social car leasing schemes, and \u201Ccash for clunkers\u201D have been avoided if the Minister had listened to the sensible opposition from ACT to those policies in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0c7e5c1c11420eb4cb5ee255420bbd\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: No. In formulating the Government\u2019s policy to reduce transport emissions, I don\u2019t listen to modern-day climate deniers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2225970d8a44844b545b239c960a604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2225970d8a44844b545b239c960a604\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 10, Dr Anae Neru Leavasa\u2014Oh, sorry. Point of order, David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227574520b2ca54c7a9dadd97833f065d8\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has completely failed to address the question. He spoke of \u201Cmodern-day climate deniers\u201D, but ACT actually has the most sensible climate policy in the whole Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368ec71ac2854566bcaff6433b2f4124\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014no, we\u2019ll call that one all, shall we, because the first word the Minister said was \u201CNo.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f890fc4d8fb94a36a7116724f2165ffc\u0022\u003E Question No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3a973f4f6e14e65bfb1f24309de7862\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3a973f4f6e14e65bfb1f24309de7862\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What progress is being made in vaccinating New Zealanders against COVID-19 and the flu?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d744bc65e9554312a7b2d83b30e2e6c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d744bc65e9554312a7b2d83b30e2e6c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E On Saturday, we launched the latest phase of our COVID-19 and winter influenza vaccination campaign. Since 1 March, 45,269 COVID-19 booster vaccinations have gone ahead, with 24,588 more booked to happen. Since Saturday, 1 April, 11,733 people have already received their influenza vaccination. We know that vaccination is the best protection against the virus, and we can all play our part in staying well this winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c84ac2469db845009a95a03614de1580\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important that New Zealanders get vaccinated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b68cb805c7a948d5834735cbc3a10eb5\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: We know that influenza can be a particularly serious disease for people with weakened immunity and older people, and around 500 New Zealanders die from flu annually. The flu vaccine reduces the likelihood of ending up in hospital if you get sick this winter, and vaccination against COVID-19 continues to be the best protection against the virus. We can all play a part in staying well this winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87334f80bb44c23a06f188d0d495de0\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: How will communities be involved in the vaccination campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024612a187ca47a89767a1260300d83b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Involving our communities in the programme is critical for success. In Northland today, Hauora Hokianga is having an event for tamariki and wh\u0101nau where flu; measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR); and COVID-19 boosters will be available. Manurewa Marae will be at the ASB Polyfest this week doing checks and offering COVID-19 and MMR vaccinations. And on Saturday, the Prime Minister and I were lucky enough to be at Queen Street Medical Centre in Upper Hutt, where the Prime Minister enjoyed the sausage sizzle, and I learnt that Elvis still lives. Te Whatu Ora is working with communities to scale up the vaccination campaign, including pop-up events, targeted activities to priority groups, and outreach to those who are eligible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17637040f1f4202a000df959da90050\u0022\u003EDr Anae Neru Leavasa\u003C/span\u003E: How are people able to book their vaccinations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244eaddb914dc4c3597be712ebc77006d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Booking your vaccination is easy, and the COVID19 bivalent remains free. We are running a comprehensive programme to encourage vaccination protection against both influenza and COVID, and targeting those audiences most at risk in the lead-up to winter. You can visit www.bookmyvaccine.nz or call 0800 28 29 26, or talk to your GP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002211aad25de8414578b7c78709a95ffed8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health (M\u0101ori Health)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00222ddb8a095dd04aee80c6a8ce5eeffef3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ddb8a095dd04aee80c6a8ce5eeffef3\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health (M\u0101ori Health): Does he stand by his statement on the Therapeutic Products Bill that \u201CUnder Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Crown has an obligation to actively protect rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c34a8c119bf344e8bf5edcfb3eda6359\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c34a8c119bf344e8bf5edcfb3eda6359\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister of Health (M\u0101ori Health)):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f3cb2376f043df88688228fd22bbf3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister hasn\u2019t addressed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c25aa2ddb343fba6ed6979ffab8299\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by my statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a89a42e6df24b3c82cc74eb372d86f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014my mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d726412dcf4fa9a62c954621bdc365\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, point of order. Do I get another question for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de0bc4003bd347bc97fe17884eda958a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229425f10d0c1547398e5ec9f632f9a311\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, gosh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eefd39456527451ebada0ecbbb9abaa1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was my mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227670bcfe863d4296ac5c8978eaef8b15\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: I tried. Does he agree with submissions made by M\u0101ori at the Health Committee that the Therapeutic Products Bill, and particularly clause 29, captures rongo\u0101, and, if so, how will the rights and interests of M\u0101ori be protected in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc7c9ed785e45e99df9c4a148567093\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is under active consideration still by the committee. The Ministry of Health, Te Manat\u016B Hauora, is yet to deliver their departmental report on that particular bill, and it is still under active consideration by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a4867b5db84040ba19a33bab05d7cf\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, e te M\u0101ngai. I don\u2019t think the question was answered. The question was: does the Minister think that the Crown has actively protected rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d97cefc5645d4d4d9f4e82aa68f8d19b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll let the member ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022505bfc0a077a41f18d254c7736928381\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Does he agree with submissions made by M\u0101ori at the Health Committee that the Therapeutic Products Bill, in particular clause 29, captures rongo\u0101, and, if so, how will the rights and interests of M\u0101ori be protected in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022811d24ccdc5e47e89b490d2508e940b0\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: We encouraged many to submit on this particular bill, and there were lots of submissions made on this bill. This bill is still being actively considered by the select committee and also by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a024150809f746ffb9072d18f88fafdb\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister, then, in his considering, exclude rongo\u0101 from clause 29 until the work stream has been completed and the Crown has actively protected rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c9c1ec77a14a7e9160dcb02f072e10\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: That is why we started the work stream on rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori announced last year in November, and we continue to support that particular work stream. I\u2019ll continue to reiterate to the member and to this House that that particular bill is still under active consideration by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2d8e88eb804c82a7684e8514fe7ea2\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say in his statement that the rongo\u0101 work stream will \u201Cexplore the interface of the Therapeutic Products Bill\u201D to \u201Cidentify any gaps and opportunities to protect rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori\u201D if he is already guaranteeing to the House that the bill does not capture rongo\u0101 through the work streams?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e841d2222fc44a00b06898c745dfe55c\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to make this very clear to the member and to the House: when we announced the work stream for rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori, what we did was we wanted to make sure that those who are engaged in the sector, those who work in the sector, are able to create that pathway forward for themselves. I do want to reiterate, though, to this House and to the member that the Therapeutic Products Bill in its entirety is a bill that must pass. It does a number of other things that are making our health sector and the medicines fit for purpose\u2014the legislation fit for purpose, today. So I stand by the commitment to support the rongo\u0101 work stream and continue to reiterate that this bill is under active consideration by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9011b798d54fbf9ebd41445876e146\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What specific changes will he make to the Therapeutic Products Bill to address the overwhelming concern from rongo\u0101 M\u0101ori practitioners, tohunga, and tangata w\u2019enua across the board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6c2bec9143744db83aa73bd950b90e0\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, this bill is under active consideration by this Government. The committee will do the process that it\u2019s been assigned to do and then Ministers and the Cabinet will continue to consider this particular bill, and we look forward to reporting back on that when that process is over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b2e0c14aefc4cf99f94c4c0ebf1078d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, e te M\u0101ngai. So I just want to be clear of the answer to \u201Cwhat specific changes will you make to the therapeutics bill?\u201D Was the answer, for clarity, nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab5291693d194c0fada2bedb7c5722d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll have to check Hansard, but from my memory the question was definitely addressed, so there is no point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0fac05ca98349b184a4ed832b7f60d9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Rural Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022adab5f2dacab44f1894f12c474d96bdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adab5f2dacab44f1894f12c474d96bdc\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rural Communities: What recent reports has he seen on targeted support to rural communities to help them recover from Cyclone Gabrielle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220d9a106455774b00b4ff2ed054ccaf84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d9a106455774b00b4ff2ed054ccaf84\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Cyclone Gabrielle\u2019s impact on rural communities has been severe. Rural communities bore the brunt of the cyclone and the Government recognises this. There has been an extensive effort to reconnect isolated rural communities; however, there remain 43 farms with restricted access in Hawke\u2019s Bay and Tair\u0101whiti. The Ministry for Primary Industries are maintaining contact with these farms and households, and work continues to return them to full access. I acknowledge these communities continue to do it tough. It is also important to acknowledge the hard work under way to provide support. The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) have reported to me that Government support includes $51 million for recovery grants to help farmers, growers, and M\u0101ori land owners. MPI has received more than 5,900 applications for grants, with 3,249 applications having already been paid\u2014a total of $36.5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf09f6ecec1044699c436f5ce7c6c6ef\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government helping ensure farmers get the supplies they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224253fefcca7344a9a8224ecb6887c425\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been advised that 105 tonnes of fencing and equipment have been delivered to cut-off rural communities through Operation Reach. Ten thousand bales of feed and more than 3,000 hectares of grazing have been donated through the National Feed Coordination Service since mid-February. This service was established alongside Federated Farmers. Six thousand and two hundred cattle and sheep have been moved off cut-off farms in Patoka and T\u016Btira in Hawke\u2019s Bay as part of Operation Muster. A further 6,000 are booked in for the meat works and sale yards over the coming week, and three sets of portable cattle yards have been set up in northern Hawke\u2019s Bay to help the cut-off farms reduce livestock numbers ahead of winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237f8da68648d4aa5a11ff419a00e4fa4\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What support has been provided to rural support trusts in affected areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022932e3597f5374098a228938674102e08\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has provided $920,000 for rural support trusts for their work in response to Cyclone Gabrielle. Rural support trusts in Northland, North Auckland, Waikato, Coromandel, Bay of Plenty, Gisborne, Hawke\u2019s Bay, the Tararua District and Wairarapa all received funding to provide support to help people access relevant services such as mental health and recovery grants, and co-ordinate local clean-up efforts. The work of rural support trusts is critical to the wellbeing of people in rural communities, and therefore I take this opportunity to thank them for all the work that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d12fa61348ea422b9ae1924469eff208\u0022\u003EAppointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002231c885f8a26b4315a9c946f306eb1aae\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority, Chairperson\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022e149e07ad4b34acc99d2a9a45d0fc577\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e149e07ad4b34acc99d2a9a45d0fc577\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That under sections 5 and 5A of the Independent Police Conduct Authority Act 1988 and section 32 of the Crown Entities Act 2004, this House recommend to Her Excellency the Governor-General the appointment of Associate High Court Judge Kenneth Johnston KC as Chairperson of the Independent Police Conduct Authority for a term of five years commencing on 1 May 2023. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe Independent Police Conduct Authority\u2019s important function is to investigate complaints alleging any misconduct or neglect of duty by a member of the police or concerning any practice, policy, or procedure of the police affecting the complainant. The authority is also responsible for investigating any incident involving serious bodily harm or death notification to the authority by the Commissioner of Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe Independent Police Conduct Authority is the only official New Zealand Police oversight body and, as such, it\u2019s important that its work is led by the people of the highest calibre. The term of the authority\u2019s present chairperson, Judge Colin Doherty, expired on 29 August 2022. However, his appointment remained in force under carry-over provisions. Judge Doherty did not seek reappointment for a further term, but agreed to continue in office to oversee the completion of several high-profile investigations. I want to take this opportunity to sincerely thank him for his work over a significant period of time. His contribution was certainly received gratefully by us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis brings me to the appointment of Associate Judge Kenneth Johnston KC. Associate Judge Johnston was appointed to the High Court bench in early 2018. He practised as a barrister from 2007 to 2018, and was made King\u2019s Counsel in 2016. The majority of his early career was with MinterEllisonRuddWatts, including seven years as managing partner. He has experience as chair of the Teachers Disciplinary Tribunal and deputy chair of the Health Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAssociate Judge Johnston has experience in criminal work as both a prosecutor and defence counsel in jury and appellate trials and in civil work, including general civil and commercial litigation, trusts and estates, construction, employment, family, and professional disciplinary litigation. His overall experience in governance, investigatory, disciplinary, and criminal work gives him the requisite experience and ability to undertake the work of the chair of the Independent Police Conduct Authority. Therefore, it is with great pleasure that I commend to the House Associate Judge Johnston for this very important role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002255a95b52d24d48d6a6d7d74be3466963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255a95b52d24d48d6a6d7d74be3466963\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002212d9ae32d3794a3892d69eccddeff28e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212d9ae32d3794a3892d69eccddeff28e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The National Party does agree to this motion, the appointment of Associate High Court Judge Kenneth Johnston, King\u2019s Counsel, as chairperson of the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) for five years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis is obviously a very important institution in the wider judicial system of this country. We New Zealanders sometimes take for granted these institutions, but it\u2019s very important in any free and open country to ensure that the police whose job it is to maintain public safety and to look after us and deal with criminals and things that put them in harm\u2019s way\u2014but it\u2019s also very important to know that their conduct is also held to account and monitored. Obviously, any lawbreaking involves the court system, but the IPCA is an important part of the process in order to investigate complaints against any misconduct or neglect of duty by a member of the police or any practice, policy, or procedure of the police affecting the complainant, as the Minister outlined. The authority also is responsible for investigating any incident involving serious bodily harm notified to the authority by the Commissioner of Police. So it\u2019s an important agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe support the work that they do. We acknowledge, like the Minister did, the hard work of the retiring chairperson, Judge Colin Doherty, who has worked hard on behalf of the community. He\u2019s had a very busy time, and indeed the IPCA is having a very busy time at the moment, particularly dealing with the multitude of issues raised by the occupation of Parliament last year, which does need thorough investigation. We were quite critical of the Government\u2019s decisions around that\u2014not any criticism directed at the IPCA, but the fact that we believe there should also have been a wider investigation involving not just the actions of the police but the Speaker and many other people. But I just say that in passing to make it absolutely and abundantly clear that the National Party strongly supports the work of the IPCA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge the effort and contribution that Judge Colin Doherty has made, and we wish the new chairperson, and current Associate High Court Judge Kenneth Johnston, King\u2019s Counsel, all the best in the job. We have high hopes and expectations that he will maintain the strong traditions that the authority has in terms of standing strongly in order to maintain the integrity of the broader system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI also just want to thank the Minister of Justice for the way that she consulted us on this side of the House over this appointment. It is important that these kinds of roles have bipartisan support and we welcomed the opportunity to comment on it, as expected, but it\u2019s important that these practices continue. So without any further ado, the National Party supports this appointment and wishes the new chairperson, Judge Kenneth Johnston, all the very best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u002228560f49d4b74dc99278c734d90591b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228560f49d4b74dc99278c734d90591b2\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise, too, as others have done, to support the appointment of Judge Kenneth Johnston KC to head the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA). It is an essential function of our democracy that we have independent, transparent mechanisms for accountability, particularly where uses of force are exercised by the State against members of the public. Obviously, the work of the police is important. But also, obviously, in terms of our human rights-based framework: to be free from unjust or unreasonable search and seizure, unlawful and arbitrary detention, and the very serious uses of force that police may also exercise when it comes to gun violence for example, are some of the most essential rights that we have in our system. So I do want to commend the appointment of someone who has acted as both prosecutor and defence counsel, who knows the frameworks within which police exercise these powers, and understands the rights\u2014in particular in the criminal justice arena\u2014and understands and knows very well the significance that we as a society, and in particular our courts and justice system, rightly place on our rights and our liberties being protected against, as we say in the courts, \u201CThe mighty force of the State\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut I do want to also say that while we are commending ourselves and the Government in this appointment and we are underlining and reflecting on the significance of the work of the Independent Police Conduct Authority, that we have to look at the structures within which Ken Johnston KC will be operating. We have to reflect on the fact that just last year it was found in an independent report that police only very rarely refer complaints to the IPCA when they come to police\u2014and that due to a lack of funding only 2 percent of cases, when they are referred by police, are able to be investigated by the IPCA. So to say that it\u2019s a significant institution in upholding our rights and our freedoms, but to only fund 2 percent of cases to be investigated, is really tying the hands of this new appointee that we\u2019re all commending today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe also know that this is an office that has, throughout time and in its own reports, been found to lack the appropriate powers because it can\u2019t prosecute. And we know that transparency is lacking because the IPCA can\u2019t make public witness testimonies to it within its investigations. We know that most members of the public know very little about the work of the IPCA, and, certainly, because of a lack of legal aid when it comes to accessing investigations and complaints, it can\u2019t in fact report what we might think are quite significant breaches of power by the police. And I only point now because I think it is important for us as a House to ground this debate on the motion in the very real issues that the IPCA grapples with, by saying that it was, again, only last year that our police force was found to use force lethally\u2014that is, take lives of members of the public\u2014at 11 times the rate of police in England or Wales. And I want us to hold that when the IPCA has\u2014somehow, with the tiny resource it has\u2014made recommendations on systemic change, that successive Governments have often ignored those recommendations. And I note that in relation to the use of force, that is incredibly high, that it was seven years ago that a previous IPCA head recommended that the Government introduce law or regulation to say that the Armed Offenders Squad actually can\u2019t send its recruits out without formal qualifications, because it was found that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo these are the types of issues that we\u2019re dealing with: it\u2019s life or death, it\u2019s the most fundamental human rights. And we\u2019re dealing with an office that\u2019s so under-resourced and whose recommendations are so easily ignored, that has so few actual powers\u2014that I\u2019m not sure we can really commend ourselves as a society for holding police accountable. And I want to also hold, because it\u2019s often disputed in this House, that M\u0101ori\u2014within that same report\u2014were found to be seven times more likely to suffer uses of force by police. And I will finish by quoting\u2014on gun violence and the important work of the IPCA\u2014the former IPCA head, when he found that police were routinely escalating situations and \u201Cput themselves in positions where firearms were the only option.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E So while in this House, as we go forward, we debate crime and punishment, we debate safety of our communities and we debate whether or not our rights are in fact protected, transparency is upheld, and accountability is applied to our State apparatus, I want us to also resolve to take notice of the independent work that these expert agencies do where prejudice is found and where safety issues of the public are highlighted\u2014not by those that we routinely villainise here, but actually by police themselves. I want us to please\u2014and this is imploring upon Governments to come also, because this is a five-year appointment\u2014take more seriously the work of the appointee that we are celebrating today. I want us to respond as a lawmaking body, as the Government should when we are told that our regulations and our safety mechanisms for human rights in New Zealand are not working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo with that\u2014and a little bit of grim news on gun violence and the police\u2014I do commend this appointment and I do appreciate the work of the IPCA. I only hope that these powers are strengthened and we take note of the recommendations as they come. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00226d6f784627434eba9db3e19eed998d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d6f784627434eba9db3e19eed998d64\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call to support the appointment of Kenneth Johnston KC as chairperson of the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start off by thanking outgoing chairperson Judge Colin Doherty, who\u2019s done a great job over the last five years. He presided over a pretty turbulent period for police, with the number of complaints increasing 61 percent in the last four years, and doubling in the last 10 years. Even taking COVID issues into account, that\u2019s a huge increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EIt can be a thankless task, with one party always being unhappy with the result of any investigation. With so many keyboard warriors out there, and ignorant commentary on specific incidents, making rational and informed decisions can often be a difficult process. Unfortunately, some of that ignorant commentary does come from inside this House. Sifting through frivolous and vexatious complaints is also part of that job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EPolicing is a tough job, and it always has been, but circumstances have changed. Examples like the use of cellphones, the huge increase in mental health issues, the demand for accountability, and a renewed sense of entitlement has meant there is a lot more scrutiny given to police behaviour and actions. Most police would tell you that if they had a dollar for every time that they were told \u201CI pay your wages\u201D, they\u2019d be pretty rich. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EIn my time in the police, I had only had one occasion dealing with the IPCA, and it was as a witness. A young man didn\u2019t think the rules applied to him and he didn\u2019t need to follow instructions because his dad was a lawyer. The IPCA agreed that he actually did need to follow instructions, and trust and accountability in the police was upheld. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has the best police service in the world, and we should be very proud. The IPCA ensures that accountability and transparency is maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E ACT welcomes the appointment of Kenneth Johnston KC. He\u2019s a vastly experienced practitioner, arbitrator, adjudicator, and mediator, having spent time\u2014as was mentioned\u2014as the chair of the New Zealand Teachers Council Disciplinary Tribunal and deputy chair of the Health Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal. I\u2019m sure he will continue to uphold the high standards that the IPCA is known for. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55d11e102a549c88fe05dd9edcca777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55d11e102a549c88fe05dd9edcca777\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I rise on behalf of Te Paati M\u0101ori to speak to this motion nominating Associate High Court Judge Kenneth Johnston KC as chairperson of the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA). We acknowledge the experience and qualifications of Kenneth Johnston KC; however, we believe this appointment represents a missed opportunity from the Government to have appointed a tangata whenua leader to chair the IPCA. And so we will not be supporting this motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThroughout history, since the inception of the New Zealand Police and its predecessor, the armed constabulary, tangata whenua have been disproportionately impacted by abuse of police power and inappropriate conduct. From the armed constabulary invading the peaceful settlement of Parihaka, to the police invasions of T\u016Bhoe in 1916 and in 2007 in the valley of Ru\u0101toki, right through to just last year when the police illegally photographed rangatahi M\u0101ori without cause, and all painful injustices in between, this reality\u2014our reality, as tangata whenua\u2014is well known and indisputable. Like the Greens MP Golriz Ghahraman talked about, M\u0101ori are seven times more likely to have violent force used against them by the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Police is undeniably a systemically racist institution. Research is clear that our people are disproportionately stopped, searched, and charged. Follow the signs. Even the current Police Commissioner acknowledges the unconscious bias that they act with while dealing with our people. We need a police watchdog who understands this reality at a deep cultural level and has the unique qualifications that come with surviving as M\u0101ori in this country. We now have M\u0101ori across all levels of the legal and justice professions, including the Supreme Court. There is no shortage of qualified M\u0101ori people to choose from who would bring their considerable skills and experience to the leadership of the IPCA. We wish Kenneth Johnston KC well and challenge him to act with the rights and interests of tangata whenua at the forefront of his work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f85029498324dff87ac4c6a612c73b7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe he could change his race. Would that help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220620eadbacae46d5aa553af5e8809b15\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe you should change yours. Tangata whenua must no longer be treated as second-class citizens on our own land. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022419b082006624e95881c565326f7594f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That under sections 5 and 5A of the Independent Police Conduct Authority Act 1988 and section 32 of the Crown Entities Act 2004, this House recommend to Her Excellency the Governor-General the appointment of Associate High Court Judge Kenneth Johnston KC as Chairperson of the Independent Police Conduct Authority for a term of five years commencing on 1 May 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 118\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022925b641252cd4c70936db8ac7454732d\u0022\u003EDeputy Controller and Auditor-General \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b453e9e220ff4a9aa659e796c69c0ca9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b453e9e220ff4a9aa659e796c69c0ca9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That, pursuant to section 11(2) and clause 2 of Schedule 3 of the Public Audit Act 2001, the House recommend to the Governor-General that Andrew William McConnell of Wellington be appointed as the Deputy Controller and Auditor-General for a term not exceeding five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c53b5c0be8da48e9b1e9058bd43fa177\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c53b5c0be8da48e9b1e9058bd43fa177\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b6d8536b98646bfa2624b8111700af9\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed09193a44a04f8988403e0a09667aa7\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022415f4263999a4094a6e59da30123636d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022415f4263999a4094a6e59da30123636d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. This is the debate on the financial position of the Government and the annual reviews of departments, Offices of Parliament, Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises, as reported on by select committees. The time allocated for this debate is 10 hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EStanding Orders 356(2) and (3) have been set aside, so there will be no sector-specific debates. Instead, specific Ministers will be available each day to respond to specific portfolios. The Government has indicated that the Minister of Finance will be available for one hour today to respond to members\u2019 questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe time for this debate has been allocated to parties on a proportional basis. Each debate will be led off by the chairperson or another member of the committee that considered annual reviews most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the annual financial statements of the Government for the 2021-22 financial year be noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c77d0915494a45a490fb265b4611c143\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002214768dd54b274ba2b8c1ff872da6e20c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214768dd54b274ba2b8c1ff872da6e20c\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I was so eager to get up, as the chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, to speak about the annual reviews that we undertook.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBefore I start with that, I would very much like to thank the staff who do these report backs to Parliament, which can be found in this volume. They do a great job, and if anybody is spending their Tuesday afternoon watching the House, then I would very much recommend\u2014if you\u2019re ever interested in what any different agency does\u2014that you go and have a look at the select committee\u2019s annual report back on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc17a992b56f4d12956e655c19e001e8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Great read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c1da11e2af445938991523d4dc6212f\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CGreat read\u201D, we\u2019re hearing\u2014they are, they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo there were a number of entities that we did a very quick report back on. There were no matters to bring to the attention of the House for Kiwi Group Holdings Ltd, \u014Ct\u0101karo Ltd, Southern Response Earthquake Services Ltd, and the Government Superannuation Fund Authority. But we did have hearings and reported on the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, Inland Revenue Department, New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd, New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, New Zealand Productivity Commission, Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, Pike River Recovery, Reserve Bank of New Zealand, and Treasury. And, of course, we did the Financial Statements of the Government of New Zealand for the Year Ended 30 June 2022\u2014that is different from the sector reports and found at the front of the volume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to focus on the Treasury review and some themes that came through throughout all of our reviews. For me, one of them that was brought to our attention was the issue of improving accountability and transparency of public finances, and particularly with the issue that the Public Finance Act focuses on vertical as opposed to horizontal reporting. I will go briefly to the Treasury, who commented on this when we were asking questions about it. And we were asking particular questions because the Auditor-General has raised this in a number of different reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo the current legislative arrangements in the system are focused on reporting at an appropriation level. The Secretary to the Treasury explained that it would be useful to enable reporting initiatives that span multiple appropriations, involving different agencies working together, or initiatives at a sub-appropriation level. We heard that this is a complex challenge because the Treasury is operating in a system where the legislative foundations, IT systems, and capabilities across agencies are not structured consistently. Despite this, we heard that the Treasury is always looking to improve the quality and information within the public finance system to create stronger accountability and transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll pause here to note that the committee remains interested in this topic, and that we\u2019ve also\u2014separately to this annual review process\u2014heard from both the Auditor-General and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, which, probably, you wouldn\u2019t necessarily expect the Finance and Expenditure Committee to be talking to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also, of course, heard about how this topic of accountability and transparency does relate to the Wellbeing Budget and how that\u2019s worked through, the Living Standards Framework, and He Ara Waiora. Also related to this transparency theme, there was discussion around the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, and we heard that lessons had been learnt from that and that those are now being applied to the Climate Emergency Response Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ETreasury also noted that the clusters that we have now in justice and natural resources now have quarterly reporting, and there\u2019s work on how to make those programmes work as well as they can. Some other themes included the liability for entitlements under the Holidays Act 2003, and we heard that both Treasury and the Auditor-General are committed to assisting with this issue. Other issues that were traversed, or themes that reoccurred throughout reports, were the tax revenue increasing, and also issues around workforce\u2014specifically within the different agencies having turnover issues but also for the country as a whole. And some of that, of course, relates to productivity, which was another theme. We also heard about inflation a number of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll skip now to cyclone and storm recovery. Of course, this is outside of the period that we were discussing, but we did still have very good interactions with the Minister for Cyclone Recovery, with Treasury, and with other officials about the impacts of those events on both our economy and, of course, those communities involved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55637b6834240f6806707e19695712a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55637b6834240f6806707e19695712a\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E The context in which we reviewed the Government\u2019s finances was a year in which New Zealand is experiencing extremely high levels of inflation, which have now persisted for 21 months. This sustained period of high inflation has led to a cost of living crisis and an extremely rapid rise in interest rates, which is affecting New Zealanders, mortgage holders, and businesses across the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn that context, I think there has been discussion from both sides of politics about the need for spending by the Crown to be disciplined. I note the Minister of Finance has repeatedly committed that the Government would be moving to reduce the volume of Government spending following a very significant level of fiscal stimulus during COVID lockdown years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHowever, in reviewing the Government finances, it is really clear that, in fact, Government spending continued to increase in the 2022-23 year, hitting an all-time high of $129 billion a year. So my first question to the Minister of Finance is simply: when will Government spending come down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00220c89c7783d094710aee4e8d547f80d14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c89c7783d094710aee4e8d547f80d14\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her contribution and also acknowledge the chair of Finance and Expenditure Committee, and other members of the committee for the work that they\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member who asked the question will be well aware that in the statements we\u2019ve been looking at and the forecasts going ahead in them, our Government spending as a percentage of GDP trends down over the forecast period and ends up at around about the long-run average of 30 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClearly the period of time, in particular the financial statements that end on 30 June 2022 that are the focus of this particular hearing, covered a period in which there was significant expenditure on behalf of the Crown. For the record, for one of many, many times that I\u2019ve said it, I stand by the fact that New Zealand needed to move hard and early against COVID-19; I stand by the fact that we made our priorities cash flow and confidence. Many times over the course of the last few years, I have met New Zealanders who were in receipt of the support of the Government through COVID-19, from businesses through to individuals who credit the fact that they got that support for their business still being able to operate or for the fact that their friends and family are still with us today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI accept that the Government has had to spend more in recent times than we might have otherwise. I would note that is a relatively similar percentage, as a percentage of GDP, to that which previous Governments have spent in the wake of, for example, the Canterbury earthquakes or the global financial crisis. It is a reality that when a rainy day arrives, the Government comes along and puts up the umbrella; that is the purpose of the way in which Governments work, but clearly the Government has a plan to see Government spending reduce. Not only is that reflected in the percentages of GDP but it is also reflected in the commentary within recent work by both the Reserve Bank and the Treasury that indicate that, actually, the Government\u2019s fiscal stance is a contractionary one, and so going forward from here we will be reducing that spending, whilst always keeping a balance to make sure that we do look after people with the spending that we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022615fca595b7b46f19d5c72d128ba3a47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022615fca595b7b46f19d5c72d128ba3a47\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E None the less, the reality is that, in the period under review, Government spending had increased significantly, up from $108\u00A0billion in the 2020-21 year, to $126 billion in the 2021-22 year. Now, this comes also in the context of increasing Government expenditure for every year this administration has been in power, such that New Zealand will be spending $1 billion more every week compared to when the Government came to office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo, against that backdrop, I want to turn now to the concerns of the Controller and Auditor-General, and the Minister of Finance will recall that in this same debate a year ago I put to you the serious concerns that the Auditor-General had raised about the quality of information and reporting about the sheer volume of Government expenditure. He noted, for example, that with the cost of living payment, the significant \u201Cimpact of prioritising speed and expediency over accuracy and quality.\u201D The Minister will recall that payment ended up seeing that millions of dollars went to well-paid New Zealanders overseas and, again, millions of dollars went to households with very high incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut the Auditor-General has again stated\u2014and I think that these concerns have become more and more elevated\u2014that he is simply \u201Cnot getting the information that allows us to understand the performance of the Government at multiple levels or that enables Parliament and the public to hold Government to account for that performance.\u201D My concern is simple; it is, when we have such a huge increase in Government spending, such that New Zealanders are being taxed at a higher rate than ever, fuelling very elevated levels of spending relative to the size of our economy, what has the Minister of Finance done to ensure that New Zealanders are getting performance and good outcomes from that spending? We need a little bit more than the wellbeing framework. As a relatively senior public servant raised with me the other day, the wellbeing framework\u2014yes, it relates to which Budget bids might come through the Treasury process, but there is almost nothing done to then report on which of those initiatives actually had medium to long term impact that measured up with what was promised in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt has been a theme of this Government that there are big promises made\u2014whether it\u2019s about mental health or KiwiBuild\u2014and the spending fires out the door but we don\u2019t see the delivery at the other end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo two points there for the Minister of Finance to address. First, have you done anything about the Auditor-General\u2019s increasing alarm\u2014and I note in particular the letter written to the Finance and Expenditure Committee in November last year, raising and escalating these concerns yet again. What\u2019s the Government doing about it? And second, how can New Zealanders be confident that we are getting value for every dollar the Government takes from their back pocket?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022e33387fccba8458bbafbadf858ea3453\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e33387fccba8458bbafbadf858ea3453\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for raising this matter and, as the committee is aware, and the Auditor-General and Treasury are very well aware, there are ongoing conversations about this. I share many of both the member\u2019s concerns and the Auditor-General\u2019s concerns about the way in which parliamentarians and the general public get the information that they need about programme- and project-level spending within the Government system. I\u2019m conscious of the time so I won\u2019t go too far back into history, but the reforms that were made that created the Public Finance Act did create the appropriation structure, which is, in fact, what\u2019s guiding the very debate that we\u2019re having. That appropriation structure, by design, aggregates up, and the Treasury in particular operates at that aggregated level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is clear that over recent times, all of us are frustrated that perhaps we don\u2019t get as much information as we should beneath that aggregated level. The actual exercise of annual reviews and estimates is the opportunity for Parliament\u2014through the select committees, supported by the Auditor-General\u2014to actually go through at a much more granular level what\u2019s happening and undertake that deeper examination. So that would be my first response, and I continue to believe that is an important role for select committees, and one that I know the Auditor-General supports\u2014and one where there could be changes and enhancements, where, in fact, select committees decide rather than looking across the Vote to actually look very specifically at programmes or projects within the Vote as their focus for a particular annual review or estimates process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think that would be important. It would require\u2014and I\u2019m not having a go at the Opposition because we certainly did this when we were in Opposition as well\u2014quite a different approach to the actual hearings because they tend to be a bit more political theatre than they do substantive examination. But there could be a way that, you know, both could be created within it. So on that point, I think there is some work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETo specifically answer the member\u2019s question about what\u2019s happened, the Treasury\u2019s been working closely with the Office of the Auditor-General around the concerns about transparency and traceability of performance reporting provided to Parliament. A number of initiatives have been undertaken. Firstly, we do produce a wellbeing report; this is to partly answer the second part of the member\u2019s question about how the wellbeing budgeting process can support better examination of the success of our work. Obviously during this period of time we had the COVID Response and Recovery Fund, and specifically in response to that we have now much more regular and more detailed reporting of expenditure within that fund, below the broad appropriation level. That is a big change; it\u2019s required and it\u2019s highlighted the system changes that are required to be able to draw that information out from agencies and put it up so that it can be understood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAlso, with respect to COVID, I highlighted another issue which we have to resolve\u2014and I believe is resolvable\u2014but, for example, some of what we funded in COVID, for example providing devices to schoolchildren when schools were closed during COVID, actually added to an existing appropriation. So disaggregating out the COVID bit of that funding from the rest of that funding was quite challenging. So that\u2019s the kind of thing that we have been continuing to work on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are now working with the Office of the Auditor-General on developing options for improving the content of Estimates to make sure that, within the structures that we\u2019ve got, we are getting better information. As I say, that could lead to, I think, far better discussions at select committee. We are looking through key initiatives for Budget 2023 to provide better performance indicators alongside those. That is something, of course, that\u2019s driven by agencies so we have to get alongside the agencies, but we are looking to do that, particularly for key initiatives in Budget 2023. We have started to scope options for approving reporting below appropriation level, including benefits, costs, and implementation requirements of such options. As I said, we\u2019ve already made the changes around the COVID Response and Recovery Fund, and we\u2019re looking to see how we can take that and use that in other similar types of funds. As I say, we\u2019ve already published that reporting on the COVID fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI have continued to reinforce with my colleagues the importance of their work in, alongside their agencies, being transparent\u2014providing information about implementation, monitoring, evaluation, and performance reporting, and they are well aware of that. I continue to work on things like the cluster approach and so on, which focuses much more on outcomes than it does on the individual agencies and the work that they\u2019ve done. We will continue to work with the Office of Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also would note, at this point, the role of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and the work that he has been doing in this space. I would say the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has been doing some excellent work in this space around environmental reporting and understanding the extent to which we know what we\u2019re getting in that space. That very specifically relates to the member\u2019s second question around how we know more about what wellbeing does. Again, I agree with her, it\u2019s a new thing. We\u2019ve brought it in; we are obliged to be able to report on it. We report on that through the wellbeing report, but what the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has highlighted is that we can drill down into what were called the Four Capitals, to be able to say a lot more about what we\u2019re investing in there and what we\u2019re getting for that. He\u2019s provided some very constructive suggestions in that regard, which we\u2019re working on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen finally, in answer to the second of the member\u2019s questions, I would refer her to the detail of the wellbeing report that Treasury have published. It actually does give some really interesting information and links up across the indicators that we use within the Living Standards Framework for whether the things that we\u2019re doing are contributing to overall wellbeing. We can continue to refine that report\u2014I think we should\u2014but we have made a start on all of the matters that the member\u2019s raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6af97f1fbb4373a5909b3f241d5a2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6af97f1fbb4373a5909b3f241d5a2a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to take the Minister up on an answer he gave earlier where he said that Government spending as a share of the economy, as a percentage of GDP, is high now\u2014it\u2019s about 35 percent in this forecast period\u2014but it will return to the long-term average of around 30. And I\u2019d like to challenge that because, while it was high after the Canterbury earthquakes, for the five years or so pre-COVID, it was actually 27 or 28 percent of GDP. Now 35, it\u2019s going to be 32 next year and there\u2019s no COVID, and it\u2019s going to be 31 in 2027 when COVID, we hope, is a distant memory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I question the Minister\u2019s claim that he is going to return spending to normal levels. He seems to have established it at disaster levels on a permanent basis, several percentage points of GDP higher than what it is in good times normally. And I want to ask where some of that money is going because I\u2019ve drilled down into some of the reports, and this report that we\u2019re talking about. I look at healthcare expenses: pre-COVID, 2019, $18\u00A0billion spent on healthcare in 2019. During the height of COVID, $27.8 billion. Next year, 2023, the year after we\u2019re debating, it\u2019s going to be $28.8 billion. Now, at what point do we stop blaming COVID, and how do you increase healthcare expenditure by $10 billion, and yet the waiting lists get longer, the nurses and doctors get more dissatisfied. I wonder if the Minister doesn\u2019t think it may have been a mistake to try and restructure the healthcare system in the middle of a pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI also want to ask the same question about education. Again, pre-COVID, it was about $14 billion a year. Then we get to 2023, up to $18.7 billion. So, you know, they\u2019ve put up\u2014well, maths is not strong in this country thanks to education, but they put up expenditure by 30 percent in a few years. That can\u2019t all be for buying laptops for kids in COVID. And yet somehow we have teachers on strike, attendance rates dropping, parents noticed that this month, due to the strange kaleidoscope of holidays, kids are barely going to school in April, and yet somehow the Minister has managed to put another $4 billion in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister of Finance: you say that you\u2019re returning spending to normal levels\u2014I don\u2019t think that\u2019s true. I think normal levels are 28, 29 percent of GDP, you\u2019re getting it down to 31 in five years if you\u2019re lucky. And I wonder where all that extra money goes, because a percent of GDP is a lot of money, $10 billion extra on healthcare is a lot of money, four billion extra on education is a lot of money. And I don\u2019t think New Zealanders mind paying taxes if they\u2019re getting value for money. But how do you show that you\u2019re getting value for money for these billions of additional taxes that you\u2019re taking from people? How can people be sure that it\u2019s money well spent when they look at health and education today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002230214d195809464b8172c11e78fa5ebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230214d195809464b8172c11e78fa5ebb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, obviously the percentage numbers are the percentage numbers. I understand the point that the member\u2019s making that 31 is higher than 27\u201430 is higher than 27. My point would be that the long-run average for New Zealand is around 30 percent. I happen to believe that when we were down at those levels of 26, 27 percent, which we were at times under the previous National Government, that is the reason why our health system found itself in trouble, because we weren\u2019t putting adequate resources into some of those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo while I absolutely support and commit to reducing the level of Government spending down, two things: firstly, I\u2019m not going to do it on a dime, because that is the kind of austerity approach that has caused significant issues in other countries around the world. We are reducing it down in a responsible manner while still supporting the provision of the public services that New Zealanders need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESecondly, I would say to the member that, yeah, if we were to get it down to the levels that I know the member prefers, I believe that ultimately means that we can\u2019t run the kinds of public services that we need. So it\u2019s a fine balance. We\u2019ve always got to be looking for ways in which we can be more effective, more efficient with our spending. But the fact that we\u2019ve increased health spending is a result of the fact that we are coming from way behind when it comes to where our health system was when we came into Government, and, you know, the kinds of expenditure we put in place has allowed us to employ significantly more nurses, has allowed us to employ significantly more doctors. It means that there are significantly more people getting mental health consultations in primary care\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288144b6710d54a8e8d6e1321593e3606\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, cut it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f8dc961f18949f0b9ea3012c44f4bc9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they are, Mr Bayly\u2014getting more consultations in primary care. It\u2019s the reason why we can invest in paying teachers more when it comes to the education budget that the Minister has raised. So these things do cost money, making sure that we provide the quality of services that New Zealanders need is important to me, but we will strike a balance. We will continue to see the emergency COVID expenditure come out of our Budget, and we will be closer to that long-run average of 30 percent of GDP. But I\u2019m not going to do it in a way that has the hallmarks of austerity and all of the collateral social damage that causes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002224a4a1e2d72144bcb2e294e7a28d24c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224a4a1e2d72144bcb2e294e7a28d24c7\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Does the Minister accept what the Reserve Bank Governor has said: \u201CMonetary policy needs friends.\u201D? So, yes, there might be collateral damage if he was to reduce expenditure, but the Reserve Bank having to put up people\u2019s mortgages because he keeps spending is doing exactly the same thing. Does he accept the complementarity between the monetary policy of the Reserve Bank and the policy that he has in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOn a technical note, the Minister is trying to claim the long-run average of New Zealand\u2019s Government expenditure is 30 percent. That may be true if he counts the bad times\u2014if he counts the global financial crisis, if he counts the Canterbury earthquakes, if he counts the COVID period. However, what is the long-run average in good times, and when do we get back to that? I don\u2019t think it\u2019s 30 percent. He\u2019s being cute with an average. We don\u2019t want to get back to the average; we want to get back to the level of Government spending that we have when there\u2019s not a crisis on, and that is closer to 27 or 28 percent, not 30 percent and certainly not 31, 32, or 35. This Government is spending too much, and he can\u2019t say what we\u2019re getting back in return. He said we\u2019re getting more mental health sessions\u2014is he for real? He said teachers are happy they\u2019re being paid more. Really? Nurses? I mean, if I was in Government, I don\u2019t think I\u2019d bring up those things right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut I want to bring up something the Minister said about COVID. He said it was the cost of COVID and everybody is happy that they got given money by the Government\u2014of course they are. Does the Minister know anyone who\u2019s not happy to be given money for free? The question is: was it necessary to spend that money? Yes, it was. Why? Because the Government shut them down. My question is: does he believe, as the Minister of Finance, that New Zealand made the right choices? For example, there was a long period through the end of 2021, the start of 2022, when the borders were shut, people had to go on the misery of human lottery and try and get a managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) space, and yet if a person actually had COVID, they were allowed to isolate at home. So if you had a negative test overseas and flew to New Zealand, you had to go into MIQ\u2014if you could get a space\u2014but people that were testing positive and actually had it, they could isolate at home; just not people returning home. There was a period where people could use rapid antigen tests but the Government actively banned them and then it confiscated them off the people that had imported them. All of this is in the period that the select committee is reporting on, from the 2021-22 financial statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI just wonder if the Minister doesn\u2019t think if only we had ordered the vaccines a little earlier and got the roll-out done, if we\u2019d asked GPs and pharmacies to be part of it earlier, if we\u2019d been able to not lock Auckland down for three months at the end of 2021, then perhaps not so much expenditure would\u2019ve been necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo we accept what the Minister says, given the Government shut the country down, shut the border, made Aucklanders stay home, banned us from going to Whang\u0101rei\u2014at one point, the Prime Minister of New Zealand even said, \u201CYou can go round to your neighbour\u2019s house and sit in the garden, but you\u2019re not allowed to use their toilet.\u201D I mean, it\u2019s difficult to take yourself back there, but that\u2019s where we were. Does the Minister think that perhaps, maybe, if it wasn\u2019t for the Government\u2019s overly stringent and ineffective management of COVID, which had very little health benefit, then maybe he wouldn\u2019t have had to borrow and spend so much money and maybe there wouldn\u2019t be so much inflation, there wouldn\u2019t be so much debt\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efd96816782a4d4bbc802a0ea0cb3555\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe more people would be dead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d5d4e718642433cbb267f798dd91fcf\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and maybe New Zealanders would be in a much better space. Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick says, \u201CMaybe more people would be dead.\u201D Well, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, answer this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226af259f947c447e08f1d828665ba71b4\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not \u201Cmaybe\u201D; it\u2019s a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241c58bd333534dc4b85793a4420f28a3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m very sorry, I don\u2019t have eyes in the back of my head. So Julie Anne Genter is heckling here\u2014Julie Anne Genter, tell me: how would it have helped to make people stay out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a635cc41955484590a225427fa72e07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Seymour, could you direct your questions towards the Minister, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ef77fa56fa42369c78b57b109ffa4c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no, fair enough\u2014fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022383383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db496c6ff476439abee8985e76d10472\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s good to have a conversation down the back, but we\u2019d like to be part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249a028e2aa494f40a55b29aa402981d2\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no, that\u2019s OK, Mr Chair. I was bluffing\u2014she doesn\u2019t know the answer anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut I leave the question to the Minister: does he believe that the Government\u2019s COVID response\u2014its lockdowns, its slow vaccine roll-out, its ban on rapid antigen tests, its insistence on MIQ when people with COVID could isolate at home, its Auckland lockdown. Does he really think that all of those things were justified as the reason why he\u2019s had to borrow so much money and people now face so much inflation? Because all those people seeing their interest rates going up because he\u2019s spending so much, all those people seeing their prices go up, all those people watching job losses starting to mount, they might be forgiven for asking themselves, \u201CMaybe the Minister\u2019s right that he had to borrow so much money because the Government policies locked down businesses, but was it right that the Government policy locked down those businesses, or are there possibly ways that we could\u2019ve kept safe in a much smarter way and not be so indebted and inflated now?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d755d625c49a4c39a327c92c769a0c1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d755d625c49a4c39a327c92c769a0c1f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first of the questions that the member put to me around the question of monetary and fiscal policy needing to be friends, absolutely agree with that. I point the member to statements both within the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update and statements made in Monetary Policy Statements by the Reserve Bank that they see the Government\u2019s stance as supportive of them. We have a contractionary fiscal stance outlined in the financial statements that are the subject of this debate; that has been recognised. I can\u2019t recall verbatim, but bits of the Reserve Bank Governor\u2019s evidence that he gave in front of the Finance and Expenditure Committee where he was asked this direct question\u2014he said that fiscal and monetary policy were working together, as they did during COVID, I might say, but also as they are doing now. So I do believe, by actions that we have taken, the results that are in front of us, and statements that others have made, that we continue to understand both the differences between monetary and fiscal policy and the fact that they are and should be friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn answer to the second set of comments, questions, that the member put to me around COVID, can I say once again I am extremely proud of the record of this Government through the COVID-19 pandemic. Around the world, we saw countries where thousands and thousands of people were dying, where they were needing to put up emergency morgues all around. I can recall talking to friends and relatives in the United States, one of whom was staring out their window at the temporary morgue set up in the car park where thousands of people were going because they were dying. Mr Seymour, what we did saved tens of thousands of lives. You might not think that\u2019s important, Mr Seymour; I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAlongside that, we know that the actions that we took also saved thousands of businesses, Mr Seymour, and I\u2019m interested to see now that the National Party has joined with the ACT Party in deciding that it\u2019s all, in hindsight, wrong, that we shouldn\u2019t have put the money and the resources. Mr Bayly used to ask me to put more money in to make sure that we did more for businesses in the COVID period. I am proud of what we did. It saved lives; it saved livelihoods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt was also a pandemic where every Government in the world was operating without a playbook, where we went into this not knowing what was going to happen. So was every single decision that we took at every moment perfect? No, it wasn\u2019t, Mr Seymour, but, in total, did it save thousands of lives? Yes, it did. And did it save businesses? Yes, it did, Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMr Seymour, I think it\u2019s interesting today that you\u2019ve taken the stance that you have here, and I\u2019m going to offer you something, Mr Seymour, because it was extremely hard governing through COVID. I think if you talk to any leader in the world, the kinds of life and death decisions that needed to be made, the kind of support that needed to be provided, the kind of understanding to predict the future when we didn\u2019t have the modelling, all of that was extremely challenging work. I wonder whether Mr Seymour might want to reflect on the comments that he has made today, or have been reported today, where he described Jacinda Ardern as being too dumb to be the Prime Minister. That\u2019s the kind of man you are, Mr Seymour, and I don\u2019t want to give you any more airtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c1e9f6d1f940b39ad8df8e7c59a7a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c1e9f6d1f940b39ad8df8e7c59a7a9\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E A point of order, Mr Chairperson. I\u2019d just like to first of all point out that Grant Robertson\u2019s imputation that we don\u2019t care if people die is not found anywhere in anything I said; in fact, the opposite. Second of all, while\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b948081f408848f09acfedc28cde5a08\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Seymour, that will be a matter for those listening to make up their minds. Secondly? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce927203d8f46fd808c03f78db8a200\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Second of all, I actually said that she was too dumb to participate in a global conspiracy, and it\u2019s wrong for the finance Minister to mislead people about my comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec9202d1bd9a4d0c8fa9f1b2b70c152b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec9202d1bd9a4d0c8fa9f1b2b70c152b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002241bc4b06f48a43e18093630f78757efa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241bc4b06f48a43e18093630f78757efa\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, if I may bring this debate back to the annual reviews. So we, of course, are looking at matters of monetary and fiscal policy here. For those who are following along at home, what we are talking about when we talk about monetary policy is, of course, of the refrain of the Reserve Bank, our central bank which, primarily, has the ability to use the leverage of the official cash rate (OCR). But, as we saw, and as has been discussed plentifully throughout this debate this afternoon, there has also been substantive utilisation of what is called unconventional monetary policy, particularly large-scale asset purchases and funding for lending. As the Minister himself was just outlining, he believes that this worked kind of hand in glove, or at the very least collaboratively, with what is called fiscal policy\u2014that is, what the Government does: that is, taxing and spending, something that Governments of all stripes, by the way, undertake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo as we\u2019ve heard from members of the Opposition, obviously what we\u2019re facing at present is inflation\u2014quite high inflation. And we\u2019re hearing from members of the Opposition that that inflation is apparently hitting everybody equally. They are characterising this as a cost of living crisis. However, if we dig in to these annual reviews\u2014and members of the public, if they would like to, can go on to Parliament\u2019s website and look it up themselves\u2014what we see is that inflation is not in fact hitting everybody equally. And that\u2019s because, of course, the baseline fact, Mr Bayly, is that those who are on lower incomes have to spend more of that income on essentials and therefore are paying those higher costs disproportionately. We also see, as reflected here, that in fact throughout the 2021 to 2022 period, the corporate tax revenue increased by 26.2 percent\u2014that is, to a tune of $4.1 billion. That means that economic activity as benefiting those companies was of course in a fortuitous direction. However, as we also see reflected in that same annual review, household debt levels are trending upwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAnd here I would like to reflect on the sentiments that the Minister himself stated at committee, but also as reflected in the annual review, that of course there is an inherent relationship here with Government spending and Government debt levels. To that effect, he himself drew attention to the fact that there are three groups who are facing particular financial pressure at the moment. Those, firstly, who purchased homes in 2021, 2022; secondly, those who are refixing their mortgages at higher interest rates; and, thirdly, those on low incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI just really want to go to that point of those on low incomes in that third group, because, as also is reflected in this annual review, we can see that debt levels for beneficiaries are in excess of $2 billion\u2014at historic levels. The Minister said at that review hearing that he would need to do more analysis on the matter by examining beneficiary debt within the 2021-2022 financial year. That\u2019s at page 6 of these annual reviews. So a question for the Minister in a minute, when he responds to this call\u2014because the Greens only have five minutes in this debate\u2014is whether he has done that analysis on beneficiary debt and the impact of Government fiscal policy decisions particularly, and not potentially supporting lower-income New Zealanders as much as they perhaps should have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe second part that I\u2019d really like to highlight here is that while not necessarily inherently contained within the annual reviews debate, it was of course raised at the Monetary Policy Statement hearing with the Reserve Bank, where the Governor said in response to my questions that the Reserve Bank was undertaking or in fact seeking to engineer a recession. Now, while we\u2019ve been talking about how the impacts of, particularly, the disproportionate overreliance on unconventional monetary policy has resulted in deepening inequality in this country\u2014which is not a natural phenomena; it is a political decision because of the way that it works hand-in-glove with fiscal policy\u2014what we are also seeing here is the Reserve Bank, in utilising monetary policy, particularly the OCR, go about manufacturing this recession. We know that recessions disproportionately also impact lowest-income New Zealanders. So to that question, I really would like the Minister to answer how he seeks to support lowest-income New Zealanders who are hit hardest and worst by that COVID economic response, which, notably, we tried for over a year to try and get a Finance and Expenditure Committee inquiry into\u2014it was blocked by Labour majority. But now, none the less, the Government is progressing with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut also, secondly, how is it that he will go about supporting and preventing lowest-income New Zealanders from disproportionately bearing the brunt of the harm that comes with those recessionary headwinds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022596f894790a04151a7b9db0e1b15546f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022596f894790a04151a7b9db0e1b15546f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for using her time well during that question. In answer to the very specific question of debt, there is a Government programme of work on that. We haven\u2019t completed it, but there is a programme of work around, particularly, the debt held by beneficiaries to the Government so that we can understand that more. I\u2019m not leading that work, but it is under way but not completed\u2014to the member\u2019s specific question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms, more broadly\u2014it\u2019s material we have covered a few times, but there is a reason why the Government has invested significantly in lifting the incomes of those on main benefits, those receiving Working for Families, those who receive superannuation, students, and so on. It is because we do recognise that there\u2019s been a very significant impact there. That\u2019s why we increased benefits in 2020, 2021, and 2022. I respect the fact that the member has a view around the scale of that, but it is a recognition from us that actually, yes, during a time of crisis like this, it is certainly true that fiscal policy should be used to support those on the lowest incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWith respect to the member\u2019s second question, I\u2019m not responsible for the comments of the Reserve Bank Governor. The perspective I have on that is it is the Reserve Bank\u2019s job to reduce inflation back down to the target band of 1 to 3 percent. They have a tool which they use to do that, the official cash rate, and that is the tool that they have and that they have utilised. So it is their job in that sense, when they see what they determine to be an overheated economy, that they act in the way that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMy perspective is that fiscal policy, as I\u2019ve noted before to Mr Seymour, needs to be friends with monetary policy, but also acts sometimes to be able to target our support to those people who need it the most. And so while I understand the member was there in the exchange that occurred, I\u2019m clear on what I believe to be the Reserve Bank\u2019s job. They are doing that job to return inflation to 1 to 3 percent. Fiscal policy will work alongside that, but we will always seek to look after the lowest income New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbd9728ae6154eb7ae5ad4101d727c31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbd9728ae6154eb7ae5ad4101d727c31\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there\u2019s a bit that\u2019s come up in the debate already, but I am very impressed with the Minister of Finance\u2019s ability to bluff it out brazenly. Some of his comments\u2014particularly, I just want to return to the comment about how the quality of spend has been so fantastic and delivered so much. I just think to myself\u2014you know, I\u2019m sitting here listening to him: \u201C$5 billion extra in education\u201D, and what have we got out of that? Well, half our kids are not going to school, and, of course, the exam results that they\u2019re delivering\u2014well, let\u2019s not go there. I\u2019m sure that the standard of education wasn\u2019t as good as when the Minister was at school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen I think about the health spending, and, of course, billions have gone into that. And, of course, we\u2019ve got 80,000 extra people on the waiting lists. We\u2019ve got the ticking time bomb of many people who do not know that they\u2019ve got illnesses\u2014particularly women\u2014and all those sort of things, and yet the Minister just said before how much more was being delivered for New Zealanders. I\u2019d think that is a long-running dispute, because many New Zealanders are not seeing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing: I just want to get back to the earlier debate, and the Minister is very good at using monetary values and percentages when he\u2019s ready to use them. Of course, in terms of spending, which is, of course, what we\u2019re talking about here, core Crown expenses are projected to increase in monetary value. They will go from $126 billion to about $150 billion over the next five, six years. Of course, from a percentage term, it looks like there\u2019s a decrease. And, of course, we all know what that\u2019s about, and that\u2019s not because Government expenditure is decreasing; it is increasing in monetary value. If I said to Mr Robertson, \u201CWould you like $125 billion to spend or would you like $150\u00A0billion to spend?\u201D, I know what the answer would be for Mr Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut what is happening, partly through inflation, of course\u2014because that\u2019s what\u2019s driving a lot of this issue\u2014is that the economy grows and the GDP is growing\u2014some of it counter to all the efforts of the Government to try and stilt that with small businesses, because they\u2019ve thrust so much additional costs on them. So I just want to make that point. But the Government spend is still increasing in monetary terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe exact quote, or one of the quotes, from Adrian Orr, the Reserve Bank Governor, which is, actually, just slightly different from what the Minister said before, is \u201CReprioritisation of current spending and revenue arising through other alternatives makes the job of monetary policy easier\u201D\u2014i.e., for the Reserve Bank\u2014\u201Cbecause it is redirecting current income rather than creating new cash in the economy.\u201D Read into that last bit: creating inflation. And, of course, Mr Adrian Orr was quite clear in at least two of the hearings before the Finance and Expenditure Committee that fiscal policy\u2014i.e., the policy run by the Minister of Finance\u2014was contributing significantly to his job of taming inflation; that is why we\u2019ve got such rapid rises on inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENeed I remind you that only in 2021 the official cash rate was at 0.25 percent and here we are at 4.75 percent and highly likely to be at 5 percent tomorrow. For every percent increase in debt\u2014and the average value of New Zealand debt is about $487,000 per house\u2014that equates to $5,000, or over that period roughly $20,000 of additional spending\u2014so that\u2019s $30,000 pre-tax\u2014that households have got to find to pay their debt, pay their interest on their mortgages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, I now turn to the Mind Your Own Business summary that came out yesterday. What we\u2019re seeing now is the dangerous impact on both households and on small businesses. And just for Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s benefit, financial hardship is now up 60 percent for people making house loan repayments\u2014that\u2019s part of it\u2014but for small businesses we have now got 30 percent of businesses who have got less than six months, if current interest rates stay where they are. And, actually, one in five\u201419 percent\u2014businesses are saying if the interest rates continue to go up, they will need to close their business. That is a result of that Minister, the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022110f643c9ec045918da43eed1ea1e4fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022110f643c9ec045918da43eed1ea1e4fe\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E It would be remiss of me, given that the Minister raised the topic of students, to not put this to him. So does the Minister then agree with this quote from former Otago University Students\u2019 Association president, who then went on to become president of the New Zealand Union of Students\u2019 Associations (NZUSA) in 1996\u2014of course, named Grant Robertson\u2014who said, and I quote, \u201COnly 37 percent of full-time students get any kind of allowance. The main culprit here is the National Government\u2019s absurd means-testing programme.\u201D? And, if he does, then is he not blown away by the fact that while he\u2014or, the president of NZUSA\u2014back in 1996 was frustrated at only 37 percent of students getting access to the student allowance, it\u2019s now even fewer at just 27 percent, and, in fact, his majority Government keeps in place that exact same means-testing rule that he was frustrated about over 10, 20 years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022551fcbc37dde46c68f8d1269c5187bd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022551fcbc37dde46c68f8d1269c5187bd4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a lot more than 20 years ago, I can tell the member! Look, that idealistic, better-looking man back in 1996 certainly was making some interesting and quite good points. Look, in all seriousness, I do think that over the course of the time that we\u2019ve been in Government, we have attempted to improve significantly the lot of tertiary students. In particular, if I even go back a little further to the time between when those comments were made and now, we have got significant resources invested in things like the interest-free student loan programme and making sure that we do support students through a number of different means. But, in the end, when it came to this particular term of Government, we prioritised not only keeping our fees-free programme\u2014which, of course, also didn\u2019t exist in those days\u2014but actually re-orientating some of the expenditure that would have been spent more in that area, around apprenticeships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI stand by that decision, because I think what the 1996 version of me perhaps didn\u2019t have in my head was the importance of us investing across the whole trade training space, as well as within universities and other degree programme providers\u2014we\u2019ve got to get that balance right. We\u2019ve put a significant amount of resources into supporting apprenticeships: we\u2019ve got over 200,000 people who have benefitted from either free trade training or free apprenticeships, so we have redirected some of that money. We continue to look for ways that we can support students, most recently with the increases on 1 April to loan and living cost requirements, and we will keep continuing to do that as resources allow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbe310e554e445fbb7044cd9fad53fb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbe310e554e445fbb7044cd9fad53fb9\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. I just had a few questions for the Minister, particularly focused on infrastructure spending priorities. Now that a much greater share of transport infrastructure is being funded by Crown funding and not the National Land Transport Fund, I would expect the Minister of Finance to have even more an interest in the economic case for infrastructure investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen a number of projects that have been announced or are being worked on by the Government, like projects in the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, totally Crown funded; the Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving programme options and preferred options; and now Auckland harbour crossing and Auckland Light Rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn many of these cases, where there are public benefit-cost ratios, which represent the ratio between the overall expected wider socio-economic benefits of the project and the costs, many of them fall to well below 1. At the same time, we\u2019ve seen the Government has received a business case for the Lower North Island regional trains, which has a benefit-cost ratio of over 1. They\u2019re requesting, most recently, $350 million\u2014I accept that might have increased a bit\u2014but it\u2019s a very small amount of money compared to what\u2019s being spent on projects in the New Zealand Upgrade Programme or that is proposed for some of these larger programmes in Auckland and Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just wondering, is the Government committed to investing in projects that have a good return on investment, and will the Government be resourcing the Infrastructure Commission to do the work on an infrastructure priorities list that could help improve the business case process, the optioneering process, and maybe improve the overall public debate on where we should be spending money in order to make it easier for people and goods to move around the country at lower cost but also at lower carbon cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022115a58291b9346919a68279cafbacb7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022115a58291b9346919a68279cafbacb7f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member very much for her question and acknowledge the work that she\u2019s done in this area, both before coming into Parliament and in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is an area where I think\u2014the phrase you used around \u201Cbusiness case\u201D has triggered me, because it is one of the areas where I think we can do much better. I think that\u2019s probably acknowledged across the infrastructure system as well that in an effort to make sure that we are considering options, we are considering all costs, lifetime costs, and that we are making sure that we are driving value for money. I suspect we\u2019ve overburdened the system when it comes to business cases. So that is an issue that I share with the member as something that I think we can do a bit better on. We still need to make sure that we go through the proper analysis, we consider the options, but I think that there are ways that we could do that better. I know that Te Waihanga, the Infrastructure Commission, does also consider those matters as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn answer to the question she raised about the priority list, yes. The Infrastructure Commission, having produced what I regard as a very good document, the infrastructure strategy, they have a Government response to that. Part of that then flows on to how we get a priorities list. It will be extremely hard, but something that I would like to think we could do, and that that could have a level support across Parliament and across our society so that we all understand where we\u2019re going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat I can say to the member is that the infrastructure strategy highlights very much the issues that she raises around carbon emissions and around the importance of the infrastructure projects that we now do, understanding their impact on emissions and being able to do them in a way that helps reduce emissions for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member raised the specific issue about benefit-cost ratios (BCRs) and the harbour crossing. When I was answering on behalf of the Minister of Transport to her the other day, one thing I didn\u2019t quite get to say was the fact that obviously, when we\u2019re looking at BCRs for the options there, we\u2019re working on ones that were from last year rather than ones from this year. I guess that points to the fact that BCRs can change as a process goes forward and goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms of the broader comments that the member is making, I support the fact that our infrastructure needs to be efficient and effective, but also, at the same time, support our emissions reductions goals. We\u2019ve invested significantly as a Government in public transport and in rail, and we will continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002225d99d130d0e4b82b9b6937d97c433c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225d99d130d0e4b82b9b6937d97c433c6\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I was particularly struck by the comment from the Minister of Finance in which he held up the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund as an example of the transparency in the way the Government spends. The Minister of Finance will acknowledge that he raided that fund for the purpose of consultants to work on three waters reform. The gap between spending money to help people through a health crisis and paying people from consultancy firms to tell the Government how to reform the governance of three waters assets could not be wider. So if that\u2019s the Minister of Finance\u2019s example of transparent reporting, I suggest he find a better one, because the facts are stark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EGovernment spending in the year we are reviewing was the highest as a proportion of GDP as it has been in at least 17 years; more in the last year than during the other COVID19 lockdown years. The question that we have asked on this side of the House is: where is the value for that spending? Because let\u2019s think back to 2017, when Crown spending was 27.7 percent of GDP. It\u2019s now 35 percent. In that year, the State house waiting list was at least a quarter of what it is today. There were not thousands of children sleeping in motel rooms. In fact, the health waiting lists were shorter. Here in Wellington today, if you want to go to the emergency department, well, good luck, because around two out of five times, you\u2019ll be waiting more than six hours for care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister of Finance is this: what good is the wellbeing framework and the pages and pages of faff about how nice the intentions are, and how hard everyone\u2019s trying, and how we\u2019ve all wrung our hands and said we cared about it, if the result is that you\u2019re spending so much money that we have a higher inflation rate than Australia, the US, other countries around the world that we like to compare ourselves to; that our cost of living is completely out of control; interest rates have spiked higher faster than at any point in the history of the official cash rate; and we\u2019re not seeing the social results for it. The Minister has poured billions into K\u0101inga Ora, yet the State house waiting list is the longest it\u2019s ever been in New Zealand\u2019s history. We have literally thousands of kids in motel rooms. The hospital system is, in the words of the man who used to be in charge of it until very recently, \u201Cin crisis\u201D. Our educational achievement has declined in real terms. Yet the Minister of Finance says, \u201CTrust me. Look how transparent the COVID fund was. Look how well we did with all of those billions. And I\u2019ve got a wellbeing report. So, look, it\u2019s all going to be fine.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWell, my question to the Minister of Finance is pretty simple: why should New Zealanders trust you to spend more of their hard-earned money, with the tax you take from them, when you have failed to date to provide the results they have a right to expect for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8e5c45f08d447128893a54fc314aa8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8e5c45f08d447128893a54fc314aa8d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. Perhaps a history lesson might be helpful at this moment\u2014in response to the member\u2019s question\u2014covering the period which we are assessing through these statements, and trying to answer the member\u2019s question around the influence of Government spending on inflation. On 6 October 2021\u2014in the period in which we are covering here\u2014the Reserve Bank raised the official cash rate (OCR). On 21 October that year, the National Party called for a multibillion-dollar stimulus package of tax cuts and more spending, including increasing the wage subsidy, which would have cost $70-80 million a week; continuing the wage subsidy further, which would have cost another $70-80 million a week; implementing rental support for small businesses, which would have cost $100-180 million a week; and extending the loss carry back by $100 million per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbe9abd6ba246a691a790a507190c37\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this got to do with your financial accounts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced0cbe5db9f45d9931564df783f075e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What this has got to do with it is that the question that the member asked me was about the role of one of them\u2014her question was about the role of Government spending in increasing inflation. The point I\u2019m making to the member is that had we followed her prescription in the period that was being covered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06efb10543d45498c9655ad80046ad9\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t my prescription.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5c74d7ec564a869591dfc622276457\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member says it wasn\u2019t her prescription. Well, it was certainly the National Party\u2019s prescription. In the period that the member is concerned about, they were looking for a multibillion-dollar stimulus package of tax cuts and spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo if the member thinks that it\u2019s Government spending that increases inflation, imagine what would have happened if we had followed on from the member. I might say that the National Party carried that on\u2014after the November OCR increase, Christopher Luxon called for more stimulus. After the February 2022 OCR increase\u2014also covered in this period that we\u2019re looking at here\u2014the Reserve Bank raised the OCR for the third time. And National\u2019s response? An $11 billion tax cut policy that would have exacerbated inflation even more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603190e9c94a4772aa4c18529d86560a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. Look, the Minister of Finance has used his floor in the House to misrepresent National\u2019s position in tax policy. The number he has used to characterise our tax policy is, I think, false. I don\u2019t want to accuse him of misleading the committee wilfully, but I do want to give him the opportunity to withdraw that characterisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb1ca2f8afd40768a2adda76b5bd399\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, am I back on? No, it was an $11 billion tax cut policy announced on 6 March 2022. It included increasing tax thresholds by 11.5 percent; removing the 39 percent tax rate\u2014the top tax rate; restoring the property investor interest deductions; repealing loss ring-fencing and returning the brightline test to two years: $11 billion estimated at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd2e983046c4231b9666bf1729ef7cd\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Ring-fencing is not even in our policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f45598368141df8df564dc0ae22c31\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: But it was; it was in the policy that you announced on 6 March 2022. Anyway, regardless of whether we want to debate whether it was $11\u00A0billion or $10 billion or $9 billion, the point is that the kinds of things the member has been proposing would have exacerbated inflation even more than the necessary spending that we had to do when it came to COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am proud of the Government\u2019s record in this regard. I think that the Government has done as good a job as almost any other Government around the world in the face of COVID. The member might like to join Mr Seymour in the pursuit of a PhD in \u201CHindsight Economics\u201D. That is not actually what it means when you have to govern. When you have to govern, you have to govern in the here and now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESometimes, we don\u2019t get every decision right. But overall, what the Government did during that period, I believe, was invest to support New Zealanders to stay in jobs, to support New Zealanders to say well and healthy. When I look at that, and compare that to the rest of the world, I believe that we have a record that we can be proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022794cce66ce824f2e8f483b1d801d0915\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022794cce66ce824f2e8f483b1d801d0915\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a31f5002794122b56ae2b13977dd74\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair? Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00224a66cabb2392482eb1eeedf03e790448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a66cabb2392482eb1eeedf03e790448\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could just explain, the Business Committee has already made a ruling that the time for this debate is only one hour. That one hour is now over at 4.23. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022402d6500f10c43dda971e373ef4d4c5c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002299fbf81637fc4c1d934a311b0131232e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299fbf81637fc4c1d934a311b0131232e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I will report progress on this bill, but if I can also say that the decision to have just one hour was made in the Business Committee, which all parties agreed to, so it was a bit unnecessary to take a vote on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a316555ef1684cab8049b57a3981f262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a316555ef1684cab8049b57a3981f262\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill, and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002231cf3329e3434bed90edbb72cc8ef10d\u0022\u003EIntegrity Sport and Recreation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d10be4749f2943b2a12fb48338ac6f31\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221183fe9901744c5fb61c2084e5a90d6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221183fe9901744c5fb61c2084e5a90d6c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e27f9d95ed406d9d78e75e10c9b627\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f9eea624f2d4eda9203bdbbbe0a0ced\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 10 August 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour to be able to bring this bill to the House. It is the end result of a significant amount of work in the sport and recreation sector over the last few years, and I want to pay a special acknowledgment to all of those who have been involved in that work\u2014in particular, the Play, Active Recreation and Sport Integrity Working Group. That working group has spent a lot of time over the last couple of years consulting widely across New Zealand to be able to come up with the recommendations that are what fills up this piece of legislation today, and I want to thank them for their work, and the transition group that has also been working most recently and those who will continue to support us in this important endeavour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EParticipating and competing in sport and recreation is fundamental to the wellbeing of New Zealanders. From grassroots to the elite level, sport and recreation positively impacts health and wellbeing, it strengthens our social connections in our communities, and it is an expression of cultural and personal identity. For children and young people in particular, physical activity is essential to wellbeing and development, and as we all watch our elite athletes compete on the world stage, it\u2019s also an immense source of pride for New Zealanders and also one that draws our communities together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the benefits of sport and recreation are only truly realised if those activities are safe, inclusive, and fair. Both here in Aotearoa New Zealand and around the world, reviews of sport and recreation environments have shown that more needs to be done to protect athletes and participants at all levels from harm and to ensure a level playing field. Athletes at all levels have spoken up about how difficult and isolating it can be to raise integrity issues. This can be exacerbated by complex processes which lack transparency and independence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand in recent times, we have seen, sadly, a number of sports where reviews have needed to be undertaken into areas such as athlete welfare, bullying, abuse, and inappropriate behaviour. All of these are regrettable, but it has been across a number of sports and also, sadly, not just at the elite level. We have also seen inquiries undertaken where there have been concerns about bullying and abuse at grassroots sports level as well. We need to do better to ensure that our people can participate but also, in doing so, ensure that they are treated fairly and they are kept safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill in front of us today will help protect the wellbeing of participants and the fairness of competition by establishing a new independent Crown entity, the Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission, to lead a strengthened and more participant-focused integrity system for the sport and recreation sector. The commission\u2019s independence is important. This was raised with us numerous times over the consultation period. While I applaud the work that Sport New Zealand, High Performance Sport New Zealand, and other sporting organisations do to support athlete wellbeing, it is clear that for athletes and participants to be able to raise integrity issues without fear that their funding selection or participation will be impacted, we need an independent body. Integrity in the context of this Act refers to how we keep sport safe and recreation safe, fair, and inclusive for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETo that end, the bill empowers the commission to target behaviours and practices that threaten integrity, including competition manipulation and match fixing, the use of prohibited substances and doping methods, bullying, abuse, harassment, sexual misconduct, violence, intimidation, racism and other discrimination, and the failure to safeguard children. The use of prohibited substances and doping methods in sports will be addressed through the current sports anti-doping regime, which gives effect to New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the World Anti-Doping Code. All other threats to integrity will be addressed through a new integrity framework introduced in this bill. The commission will have a comprehensive role to provide education, advice, and independent dispute resolution processes to set integrity standards for the sector, and to investigate and resolve integrity issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe commission will also become New Zealand\u2019s national anti-doping organisation, taking on the functions of Drug Free Sport New Zealand, and will be responsible for ensuring we continue to meet our obligations under the World Anti-Doping Code. The bill disestablishes Drug Free Sport New Zealand and transfers its powers and functions to the new commission. I want to ensure that the anti-doping regime can continue uninterrupted during this transition and that the commission retains the expertise and knowledge that currently sits within Drug Free Sport New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to make a special point of noting the excellent work done by Drug Free Sport New Zealand, and the approach being taken in this bill in no way speaks to any concerns that we have with the operations of Drug Free Sport New Zealand. We are disestablishing it because we want it to be part of a wider integrity body, but the skills and knowledge and expertise that have been built up will be utilised and I thank Drug Free Sport New Zealand for their cooperation in the work that we have done to put this bill together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill requires that the commission will have a strong Te Ao M\u0101ori capability and M\u0101ori representation on the board. This will help ensure that M\u0101ori perspectives are understood and represented at a governance level and that the commission can provide culturally appropriate services. Its processes will also need to respect human rights, promote the best interests of children, and be responsive to the needs and participation of participants, including disability needs and the needs of rainbow communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ECurrently, the quality of response participants receive varies tremendously depending on the resources and capability in their sport or activity. Grassroots organisations and administrators, who are mostly volunteers, often lack the time and expertise to prevent and resolve complex integrity matters. Organisations will still have the primary responsibility for resolving integrity issues. However, the commission will provide expert advice and support to raise the capability of the sector to deal with integrity matters. It will also provide independent pathways for resolving issues when they cannot be dealt with by the relevant organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhile sports doping is governed by an international framework, there is no similar approach for other broader integrity issues. Standards vary considerably across the sector, as does awareness of those standards. To address this, the bill establishes a new integrity framework. The commission will issue integrity codes that set minimum standards for conduct for participants and organisations and will prescribe the policies and processes that organisations must have to protect participants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELike the anti-doping regime, the integrity framework will be based on sport and recreation organisations adopting an integrity code. We will take a collaborative approach to both the adoption of integrity codes and building capability. Careful consideration has been given to what protections are required for people that make a complaint or provide information to the commission. This is particularly important as athletes and other participants have told us they have been reluctant to raise issues for fear of retaliation. The bill requires the commission to keep the identity of complainants confidential, with some exceptions, including where disclosure is required to enable the investigation to proceed. Additionally, if an organisational person retaliates against a participant for making a complaint or providing information to the commission, then this will constitute a breach of an integrity code that could be sanctioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EImportantly, the bill gives the commission powers to investigate integrity issues either in response to a complaint or on its own initiative. The commission can also investigate integrity issues involving New Zealand organisations that occur outside New Zealand, and this reflects the international nature of sport and recreation, particularly at the high-performance level. Consent and cooperation will be the preferred means of information gathering for investigations, and where information cannot be obtained by consent from the organisation the bill provides reasonable and proportionate information-gathering powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill provides that the commission can establish an independent disciplinary panel to determine and apply sanctions for the breach of an integrity code. The commission will also be able to hold organisations accountable, including through making public its findings and recommendations and requiring an organisation to take remedial action, such as making an apology or improving its processes and policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI expect the new integrity framework and the commission\u2019s function and powers will be of significant interest to submitters, and I am particularly interested in hearing from submitters whether or not we are targeting the right behaviour and conduct through the definition of threats to integrity, and whether we have struck the right balance in terms of investigative and disciplinary powers for the protection of participants. Overall, I believe that this bill does respond to what we have heard time and time again from athletes: that they want their wellbeing to be upheld, that they need to be comfortable, that they are safe when they are involved in sport and recreation, and that they are involved in a fair sport and recreation system. I believe that this bill takes significant steps forwards to ensuring we achieve all of those goals, and I look forward to its passage through the House and to hearing the submissions that we get. I commend the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00228e03b0e22b604e5e8dd592c212fe4b25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e03b0e22b604e5e8dd592c212fe4b25\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00229cc7921c0caf403197b2886ae7013aa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cc7921c0caf403197b2886ae7013aa5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like the Minister and a vast number of New Zealanders, I am a sports nut. I absolutely love my sport, and Sunday afternoon was spent channel surfing between Melbourne\u2019s Formula One racing event and that spectacular come-from-behind victory by the Warriors over the Sharks, and we really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b65aacfc39c4d19b61243fadf441cb1\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You missed the Chiefs, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220bf6b842591469a8538fe86c3da99cf\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, we won\u2019t get into the Chiefs. I was trying not to be too parochial by picking a sport that the House knew I wasn\u2019t particularly enamoured with, but now that you\u2019ve mentioned it, the Highlanders did have a cracking good win, despite their injury list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut we also know sport is actually really big business. You know, if you think about those sports\u2014rugby union, rugby league, and certainly Formula One\u2014there\u2019s a significant amount of money involved by the athletes, by the sponsors, by the organisers, and at the elite level, at least, and certainly at pre-elite and elite level. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on all of the stakeholders in sport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIn their introduction to the report of the Play, Active Recreation, and Sport Integrity Working Group, which was released nearly a year ago, there was a disturbing list of anecdotes about how that kind of pressure manifests in terms of bullying, athletes quitting, the mental health struggles of certain athletes, abuse being normalised, players being offended, humiliated, or intimidated, sexual abuse, allegations of homophobia, and sexism. Now, I think they are quite minor in their incidence, but they\u2019re incredibly serious when they occur and they risk reputational risk for those sports and our country. But also there is a tremendous burden and pressure on those who are victims of that sort of behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, of course, things came to a head with the tragedy that was the death of Olivia Podmore, and the subsequent second\u2014sadly\u2014inquiry by Mike Heron KC into Cycling New Zealand, and I\u2019m pleased to note that things are improving significantly and the results bear that out. But it shouldn\u2019t come to a tragedy for us to collectively respond to the risks, to the integrity, of those sports events. So we strongly support the principle of an independent body being established to, firstly, set standards so that these things are reduced and prevented but also, if they do occur, that there is a safe, appropriate, and timely mechanism for people to have complaints investigated and to be resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI personally think it\u2019s a good idea to keep that entity separate from Sport NZ and High Performance Sport NZ. We\u2019re a relatively small ecosystem in this country, and the perceptions of independence could be undermined if this new entity isn\u2019t going to be wholly independent from the ecosystem that we have. I also want to associate myself with the comments of the Minister in the confidence that Drug Free Sport New Zealand has had a very, very good track record in keeping New Zealand athletes overwhelmingly clean, and preventing and detecting\u2014sadly, we had one quite recently where there was an eight-year ban handed down to an athlete, but that\u2019s a very rare thing in a world where competitive pressures may tempt athletes to take performance enhancing substances. They\u2019ve done a terrific job, and it does make sense to fold Drug Free Sport New Zealand into the new entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere are some questions, though, that I look forward to\u2014I hope\u2014participating in, but certainly I have confidence that members of the Social Services and Community Committee will explore these in detail. The cost of the body is not identified in the regulatory impact statement. It talks about the overall cost\u2014well, I\u2019m not even sure if it\u2019s the overall cost\u2014of about $9.6 million, of which $5.1 million is the existing cost of running Drug Free Sport New Zealand, but it does go on to talk about additional costs which are then redacted from the regulatory impact statement. I think we do need to know what the costs of the new entity are. I\u2019m sure that\u2014well, I\u2019m confident that\u2014value for money can be established, but we are in straitened times and it\u2019s important to make sure that those costs are fair and reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOne of the unusual aspects of the bill, which was actually set out in paragraph 4.9 of the departmental disclosure statement, was on the voluntary nature of the integrity codes. They\u2019re not going to be mandatory, and organisations then get to opt-in to these integrity codes for them to apply. I do worry about that. I think that if this is important, then there needs to be some expectation that codes, particularly at the pre-elite and elite level, do comply with them. So I think that\u2019s something that the committee can interrogate; officials and submitters will have a view on that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe third thing is that there has been some anecdotes provided to me about the draft codes and integrity body perhaps not being sufficiently robust to cover very young athletes. There are a couple of sports organisations that have highlighted to me that the integrity body may not have the nimbleness that it needs to deal with not only pre-elite but pre-adolescent athletes, and we have certainly seen some quite disturbing anecdotes from around the world of both parental pressure and sexual abuse in a couple of those sports. So I want to hear from those sports organisations as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut, broadly speaking, I agree with the Minister. I think the process has been a thorough one, the outcome looks promising, and National is pleased to support it at first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere was one other thing that I think the select committee could have a look at, and that is at clause 51: the commission\u2019s power to require information to be provided. That gives it some kind of quasi-investigative powers, and I want to make sure that the commission is, firstly, armed but that there are the usual controls, I think, around reasonable cause if a commission has the power to require information or documents to be released, because if they are too onerous, then the likelihood that a sports body may opt out of the integrity codes is increased. I think this will work only when, well, frankly, all of the national sports organisations subject themselves and abide by integrity codes for their sports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019re starting from a pretty good place. I think it\u2019s gone through a thorough process and the bill looks in pretty good shape at first reading. I look forward to hearing from as many of the sports organisations as we can, even if they agree with it and they don\u2019t have too many suggestions for improvement. That\u2019s an endorsement too of the fact that we\u2019re on the right track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe have a shortened report-back date. I don\u2019t like them generally, but I think we are seeing a Government that wants to get a lot of business done before it gets thrown out in October. I don\u2019t think this is one of those ones that would be put aside or put down the list of priorities should a National-led Government be in place, and I look forward, actually, to moving the second and subsequent readings as the Minister for Sport and Recreation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00225498716d203e49a58dfa83db1d5cf648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225498716d203e49a58dfa83db1d5cf648\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the previous speaker, Michael Woodhouse, who just about did a brilliant speech, except for that last little bit\u2014didn\u2019t agree with that. However, it was a very reasonable conversation that you had with us. Your speech hit some notes that I think were really appropriate, and, as the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, I think we will have a robust and useful discussion about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really delighted that this bill has come to this House, and I have to acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Grant Robertson, for bringing it to the House. I want to just acknowledge him for a couple of other things about this particular bill. Despite a lot of other headwinds in his other ministerial duties, our Minister has continued to champion this work across two terms, and it is important work. I know in 2018 we had a year of reckoning, really\u2014we had a year of reckoning with our cycling, our football, our hockey, and our rowing, and we had a number of reviews and it wasn\u2019t good. It wasn\u2019t good, and we can all admit to that. There seemed to be a lack of a genuine focus on athletes\u2019 rights and welfare, and there seemed to be a bullying culture, and the Minister has taken the ball and run with it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef6197999dc4044aff78bb74cd5c6bd\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Nice analogy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc35a24974134701bb6cb2a57dc3a23f\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in order to get us here today. So\u2014OK, OK, that was a bad joke, I know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI was going to talk about some of my previous sporting prowess as a rep for hockey and a whole pile of things like that, but let\u2019s talk to the bill. I think it\u2019s much more important than me telling you about how good I was at hockey back in the day\u2014or surfing, or diving, or any of the other things, just saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263b3f2b49a954231951b5fef1fa7db1a\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: And modest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca382dc0439a4142922d3bd45486629a\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: And modest. So in 2018, the Integrity Working Group was set up, and they\u2019ve worked consistently for a long time to bring us to this bill today. They came up with 22 recommendations and those recommendations have been folded into this bill. And what\u2019s important about this bill, I think, is that everyone in this country wants to know that our grassroots sports\u2014right through to our little nippers, right through to our elite athletes\u2014are safe and are taken care of and they\u2019re included. So, safe, inclusive, and fair sports is what we\u2019re about, and this piece of legislation creates this wonderful independent body which sits there quite clearly in order to do a whole series of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI recommend you look at clause 5, the \u201CMeaning of the threat to integrity\u201D\u2014the bill speaks to that. I\u2019m not going to read it off, but it is a very useful interpretation. One of the things is around looking at competition, manipulation, and match-fixing. We all know some of the cricket stories back in the pre-2000s about match-fixing. That was a worldwide scandal, and something that we want to make sure doesn\u2019t happen here in New Zealand. The use of prohibited substances and doping methods\u2014nobody wants to see someone who is a cheat achieving and then losing. We want to know that our athletes are clean. We want to know that they are using all of their skills in order to achieve greatness. We don\u2019t want them to be cheats. We as a country need to know and be satisfied with their status, and that talks as well to the World Anti-Doping strategy. So we, as well, need to make sure that we abide by that, and this Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission will do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EIt also talks about bullying, abuse, harassment, sexual misconduct, violence, intimidation, racism, and other discrimination, and the failure to safeguard children. We all know that children in sports clubs who go away, who do things with their sports clubs, can be held to be vulnerable. This bill creates integrity. It creates a system to support our children, our grassroots right through. There is so much more I want to say, but I just think it\u2019s important to say that I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002216715829115f4a9abf46ba838529ad15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216715829115f4a9abf46ba838529ad15\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call on this, the first reading of the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill. I was looking around the House and trying to see if we had any elite athletes in the House here today that I could refer to. There is one: there\u2019s Meka Whaitiri, who is sitting on the front bench, not because she plays in the parliamentary netball team with Barbara Edmonds but because she actually played at national level in softball and, of course, was selected for the Silver Ferns as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI also want to just mention\u2014and the reason why I\u2019m mentioning this is because my own daughter was selected to represent New Zealand, which I was extremely proud of as a father, in surf boat rowing in the New Zealand surf boat team. I went with the team to Australia, where she was competing. But it highlighted for me\u2014and we often hear the stories about it in this country\u2014the fact that there is a big disparity in terms of what we can afford to invest into our elite athletes here in New Zealand and what these bigger countries do in terms of the money that they have available, the facilities that they\u2019ve got, and the resources that they can put into their elite and top athletes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo I want to acknowledge us as a country and the outstanding results that we deliver. We punch above our weight without that same funding, whether the class of our coaches and sports administration is world-class. But\u2014there is a \u201Cbut\u201D\u2014I actually held the portfolio, the sport and recreation portfolio, in Opposition for a year. I have to say that on taking up the portfolio, very quickly\u2014literally within weeks\u2014I was being approached by some of our elite athletes and they were highlighting a lot of the concerns and issues that are being raised in this bill. I was working very closely with the Minister for Sport and Recreation\u2014Grant Robertson, at the time\u2014in his role, and I have to say that he was very, very good in terms of trying to get bipartisan agreement and some sort of focus on what we needed to do to make sure that we protected the integrity of our sports and our sportspeople, coaches, and administrators in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s very easy to support this bill. If I hadn\u2019t been in that role, then my natural, default setting would have been to say \u201CThis is just more cost. It\u2019s more taxpayers\u2019 money to form another agency and have another commissioner.\u201D But I think that, actually, the investment in this is the right investment. I think that one of the things that we really need to do, and I can see this bill creating that, is try and unlock the tension that comes when there\u2019s a dispute between an athlete and either Sport New Zealand or High Performance Sport New Zealand. It\u2019s only natural; we\u2019re all human. When you\u2019re dealing with elite sportspeople, they are giving it everything that they have got; they are training as hard as they can, often on a semi-professional basis. Of course, then you\u2019ve got coaching and administration that are trying to support and extract the best from that athlete as well, and not always is there agreement on how to get that done and how to make that happen. Like the previous speaker, Angie Warren-Clark, highlighted, sadly, we have seen very public examples within sports of bullying and poor behaviour, which leads, of course, to serious mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo I think that the spirit of the bill is absolutely correct in terms of what it\u2019s trying to achieve. Like the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who is now the portfolio holder, said, I would like to see our sporting bodies and our codes actually making submissions and coming in front of the Social Services and Community Committee and highlighting if there needs to be any fine tuning, if there are any issues, if there\u2019s anything that they\u2019re concerned or worried about. I have the feeling that the committee will work in a bipartisan way on this bill to try and identify those in a genuine manner. Any changes that need to be made to the bill can be made through that process and brought back into the House. I can\u2019t see why we wouldn\u2019t continue to support this bill. I do think that it\u2019s a good one, and I wish the committee\u2014I don\u2019t sit on the committee myself\u2014all the best in working through this bill in a positive way. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228f636091533646aa800afe786364398e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f636091533646aa800afe786364398e\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for this opportunity to speak on the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill that establishes a new Crown entity, being the independent Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission. This is a board that will have seven to nine members and we\u2019ve heard some of the different roles that they\u2019ll play. I am aware that I\u2019m standing after, and right next to, a former high-performance athlete\u2014I don\u2019t know if just former, probably current as well. And this is something that\u2019s certainly not been a part of my life. But I have heard, as we all have, in the news, of those high-performance athletes in the past number of years\u2014Angie Warren-Clark said particularly in 2018\u2014where there have been distressing situations and there has been bullying, and it\u2019s very good to hear the bipartisan support today for this bill and the rejection of those negative situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve heard, as well, that there\u2019s been a number of reviews undertaken and that there\u2019s been work going on internationally, as well, that demonstrate that there is a need to better protect our athletes\u2014and others who participate\u2014from harm. I think this is interesting\u2014that the bill isn\u2019t just about sporting bodies; that it\u2019s also about wider recreation. Of course, it\u2019s not just about high-performance sport, where we\u2019re talking about sport; we\u2019re focusing as well on grassroots organisations. Talking of grass, I do spend a lot of my winter Saturday mornings on the grass watching one of my children play football and it is amazing and always never ceases to amaze me how many volunteers give their time for those children\u2019s sports, and, of course, adult sport as well. He\u2019s coached by somebody who doesn\u2019t have any children in that age range and he gives up his Saturday mornings and Wednesday nights to coach the team, and it\u2019s amazing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo a lot of these grassroots organisations don\u2019t have a whole lot of time and money to implement codes. So the commission will be helping with expert advice and also\u2014we heard from the Minister\u2014pathways for resolution. It\u2019s optional to sign up to the codes, and the optional nature of that is found in clause 21 where the word \u201Cmay\u201D is used. Clause 21 is headed up: \u201CWho is bound by integrity code\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also interesting to look at the functions of the commission and these are at clause 13. If we are looking at the code parts of that, it includes \u201Cto provide mechanisms for complaints\u201D and \u201Cto provide accessible and culturally responsive mechanisms for resolution of disputes relating to integrity between persons or organisations involved in sport and organised physical recreation\u201D, also to \u201Cinvestigate matters relating to integrity\u201D and to provide a disciplinary process for breaches of the integrity code. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThere are some other pieces of this bill that I thought was interesting, as somebody who, I think\u2014I don\u2019t watch as much sport as other members of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b919c6fcc0424cae8462816d4335c48a\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got no time; you work too hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c164e3d9ad04fe0a759698cd215aa45\u0022\u003ERACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I do. So some other interesting provisions are at clause 54, where there\u2019s a compulsory review within five years, by the Minister, of \u201Chow widely and effectively integrity codes have been implemented\u201D. The Minister must report that review to this House. Also interesting, at clause 14 there are the requirements for the commission\u2019s procedures, and in 14(1)(d) one of them is to \u201Cpromote the best interests of children and young people\u201D. I\u2019m very pleased to see that because, of course, it is a lot of children and young people who grow up in sports often in this wonderful\u2014these amazing volunteers that I was talking about before, but also it\u2019s those younger people that go on to become elite athletes. This really matters for them; we don\u2019t want our young people being bullied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo I want to acknowledge the work of the Minister and his real commitment to this issue. It\u2019s clearly very important to him, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221241fb1016564e9e8d3715c13ee1b4a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221241fb1016564e9e8d3715c13ee1b4a7\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m rising on behalf of the Greens to speak to the first reading of the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill. We support this bill and we\u2019ve appreciated the collaborative contributions that have come into this debate so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe bill will establish a new Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission, which will have different duties such as investigating threats to integrity such as competition manipulation, corruption, or fraud; use of prohibited substances, abuse, including the abuse of children, bullying, harassment, intimidation, and racism; creating integrity codes for the sports and recreation sector as well as carrying out current Government functions including the implementation, compliance, mediation etc. that relates to anti-doping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to particularly, in terms of the comments, in terms of the threats to integrity in relationship to the racism, give a shout-out to Manukau United, who actually recently released a report on racism in football. They themselves identified that racism in football was a major issue that our communities were experiencing and they called on Government to take this into account and to put in place different policy interventions\u2014some of them focused around, say, equitable funding. I reckon this bill has the potential to address some of the concerns that have been raised by Manukau United.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ELike others, I want to acknowledge that the journey of coming into this place with this bill comes after several athletes at a community and a high performance level have highlighted the abuse that they have experienced, the toxic culture that they experienced, and so I hope that we honour those voices and contributions that have created the space for this bill to come into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs this bill goes through select committee, there are some specific clauses we want to pay some close attention to. So while we welcome that\u2014for example, clause 16 establishes that the commission must have effective means of seeking views of the rainbow communities, which we really welcome, and in clause 20 it also states that rainbow communities can be included in consultation when it comes to the creation of the integrity code\u2014we do find it odd that in clause 11, when it talks about the appointment of board members to the commission, there\u2019s sort of a range of expertise that is kind of being required or expected. And while human rights is included, it then goes and specifies particularly the rights of children and young people\u2014it does feel odd to then, for example, exclude the rights of our rainbow community there, in terms of the competencies that we would like of those board members, as well as some competencies around anti-racism. I think, particularly when we see the vitriol that members of the rainbow communities experience, whether they\u2019re the trans community or homophobia in sports, it\u2019s important that we proactively seek that level of competency on the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOther stuff that we hope to pay attention to is feedback we received around the minimum number required of M\u0101ori members of the board and whether that number is correct. So we\u2019ll be paying close attention to that. But, overall, we do think this is a step in the right direction to improving the wellbeing of our athletes, whether it\u2019s a high performance or community level. So we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad784171ed6d40ab8a07d90da312f9f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad784171ed6d40ab8a07d90da312f9f7\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to talk about the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill, and it falls to ACT once again to challenge this piece of legislation. It seems to be, across the House, that people haven\u2019t really looked at what\u2019s happening in the UK or Australia with regards to this type of legislation. It doesn\u2019t matter whether there\u2019s several Ministers of sport and recreation in the National Party or one in the Labour Party; this bill demonstrates that, in terms of a stand-alone integrity sport solution, there\u2019s a lot to be desired. It\u2019s not a step in the right direction, and to retain the skills of these independent bodies while supporting their capacity, the transition committee that is contemplated in this bill requires a commission, and this will involve tens of millions of dollars, of people running around in black suits with blazers pretending to monitor sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EACT believes that this will take away valuable resources from the anti-doping and match-fixing legislation that is required at the core of this bill. Everybody wants to play hard and win hard but I can\u2019t see what this does for the high performance sports athletes in New Zealand. In terms of the bill itself, there is another way to look at this, where people can get their day in court with a QC-based commission which thoroughly investigates a body like Racing New Zealand, which this bill will never be able to grasp or do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EThe bill contemplates a new Crown entity called the Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission, and Sir Don McKinnon has said he wants to look at what\u2019s happening around the world and to fit it to what works for New Zealand. Now, that has clearly not been defined here, and so that would flag up early concerns for the ACT Party over the independence of the new agency and how it would actually investigate Sport New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of points that need to be raised about the bill; why the status quo has not been considered. This seems to be like a massive leap into the unknown where, if you look at the information pack that\u2019s been supplied, there is actually a body that exists that, if it was enhanced, would allow us to actually deal with this, and that would be by extending the powers of the Sport and Recreation Complaints and Mediation Service to actually deal with options that are independent, based on sports integrity with pure focus, and it\u2019s not a status quo arrangement. It could be enhanced with some legal mechanisms to involve QCs in very serious misconduct, or local authorities and local representative sports organisations in communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EThe other aspect is, just on the cost of this bill, there is no clear mechanism for defining that in terms of the values and benefits that it produces. Now, it\u2019s easy to say on face value that it all looks great but, actually, what does it do for New Zealand sport? What does it actually do for the recreational sportsperson? What does it do for the high-performance sportsperson, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297e8a4b794a44a0aa0dccc747e6a74d\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: It keeps them safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212731a565af74c0b92026edc8033d3e9\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Keeping them safe\u2014well, that is obviously part of a code of conduct that exists at the moment. That\u2019s one of the other worries we have about the bill\u2014it\u2019s all optional in terms of codes of conduct, and everybody else will have the ability to write their own codes of conduct, which means there\u2019s a plethora of scenarios that could emerge. Now, that, to me, doesn\u2019t make sense. It\u2019s not binding. It doesn\u2019t actually commit sports authorities to administer any set of rules that are actually universal and across the board. So keeping people safe is important but it isn\u2019t the total requisite for a bill of this nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EIf you look at the Australian system, they have clearly been down the road further than us and they\u2019re getting hammered by athlete welfare complaints, especially in the first couple of years of operations, but then they run out of resources for anti-doping and the match-fixing investigations. So you can see that there are unintended consequences of this. So they changed a model earlier this year and the Dutch people have changed the model to place sports management investigations outside and away from Government control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EWhy is the Government actually doing this when it should be independent bodies that actually get them truly accountable in the courts and the administration of those sports? So why do we need a commission? Why do we need a sports commission as contemplated by the bill? What is the function of it? The same people are going to be running this. The two sports organisations are going to be welded into one, and it\u2019s still going to be the same people with a wider mandate to do things that are actually getting done at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESo, to me, we should look overseas to what is a sensible approach, where sport and the legal aspects of funding, the legal aspects of behaviour, are actually carved out and very well understood. You\u2019d need a matrix here of about eight boxes to actually get what is going on, and I hope, with the select committee process, we will get to the bottom of that. I\u2019d like to see Sir Don McKinnon\u2019s views sooner rather than later, given the truncated version of the select committee process. So, for that purpose, we cannot support the bill at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00226e52be18738e43f3b2b576d3982893ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e52be18738e43f3b2b576d3982893ec\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E After five and a half years in this House, I finally have the opportunity to speak on my favourite subject: sport. I\u2019d like to thank the Hon Grant Robertson for that opportunity to do so. Like many in this House, I\u2019m a big sports fan. In fact, many New Zealanders are\u2014it is very much intrinsically part of our culture as New Zealanders, the aspect around playing sports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been exciting over the years seeing the development of sport in New Zealand. I remember when I grew up in rural New Zealand, in the winter it was rugby and netball, and in the summer it was cricket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca810f807ddf4541bd8e58da215c5272\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: There might have been hockey, though, come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd978c8b344f4dc7a658035198b9ce4c\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: That was it\u2014nah, nah. In rural New Zealand, where I grew up, the options were very limited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228569b14bd6b5418aa0678aed536c8563\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Pirongia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b87c98e065b64843865e0e4dd48f4bd7\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: It was Pirongia. The Hon David Bennett mentioned that\u2014he knows my history well. So I ended up playing rugby for Pirongia and playing cricket for Pirongia. I went to Hamilton Boys\u2019 High School: I tried to make rugby teams; couldn\u2019t make it. In the seventh form, I finally switched to football and made the first XI. So since then I\u2019ve loved football, and I know we\u2019ve all got stories about the sports that we love.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EBut, look, it\u2019s great to have a bill on sport and it\u2019s a very important bill, and I will get into that. Most of my early memories in terms of watching sport have been just trying to see us beat Australia. It didn\u2019t matter what the sport was\u2014it was as long as we beat Australia. And if we didn\u2019t beat Australia, as long as someone else beat Australia. Now, I hope that doesn\u2019t cause any offence to our Australian friends, who we love dearly, but we do have that rivalry there with Australia. And I\u2019ll give a brief shout-out: the women\u2019s world cup is coming this year and all the best to our Football Ferns in the women\u2019s world cup here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESport is important for connection, belonging, and health. If I could touch on those three points, the first one is in terms of connection: sport brings people together. Now, there\u2019s plenty of other things in society that do that\u2014you know, music, the arts, etc.\u2014but sport is one example of bringing people together. It\u2019s so important as a society that we have a strong community. If we don\u2019t have community, really we have nothing. We\u2019re not, as Margaret Thatcher once said, an isolated group of individual individuals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9c05b71669460f8f5737103773ea8b\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Are you quoting Margaret Thatcher? Excellent!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae815b01807446bbb48a24e0a9bf473\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! We\u2019re not an isolated group of individuals each with their own purposes. We are connected; we\u2019re are a community\u2014that\u2019s who we are, and sport very much brings people together. I remember my grandfather was president of the New Zealand Rugby Union back in 1984, from the small town of Collingwood. My grandma\u2014before she passed away, I remember interviewing her and asking her about community. She was on a dairy farm and she spoke about the fact that in the 1950s and 1960s, before refrigeration, people relied on community for their survival. With technology, we don\u2019t need community for survival; we can survive on our own, but we need community to thrive, and sport is one of the key aspects that facilitates community and a thriving society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spent a lot of time on the sidelines of sport\u2014of football, basketball, and other pitches while my children have been growing up. I think it\u2019s fair to say that I\u2019ve seen a variety of interactions\u2014some positive; some not so positive. Often, at times, unfortunately, parents are trying to achieve their dreams through their children and, you know, often the children become pawns in a bigger game, and it\u2019s not helpful for those children. So it\u2019s important that we do have some strong guidelines. The aspect around education is as important here, in terms of educating not just our own children, and then moving into adults who are playing, but also those who are supporting. I think that parents play an absolutely key role in terms of instilling those values, working alongside coaches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI see I\u2019m sort of running out of time here, but in the last sort of 30 seconds: the bill promotes, advises, and educates on integrity issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc1514da922e46b6a26d04afcd4d39b7\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got another 5 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286740cb52ca64ff68f3b44b65e260076\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I like to be succinct\u2014I like to be succinct. Short and sweet. I\u2019m sure the members opposite will as well. So we did hear from the Minister, particularly around what the bill does. I endorse the bill and I encourage people to make a submission. And keep playing sport, New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002283c88cf60ae645ffaffa556fd3a37c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283c88cf60ae645ffaffa556fd3a37c5f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Hon David Bennett, five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbd354636c244e2584837aa132a30a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbd354636c244e2584837aa132a30a3a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, I\u2019ll just have to follow up that speech. Jamie Strange is a good sportsman and he\u2019s co-captain of the parliamentary football team\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a108c30739444a909bba5ded7dfa24\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Is there one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f873e3565a44458bd0e507aceeb6468\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and we are supporting women\u2019s football in the World Cup, and a big shout-out to our women\u2019s footballers who are one of the best teams in the world and are going to do brilliantly. Jamie actually plays for the red team in Hamilton called Melville, and I\u2019m a supporter of the blue team in Hamilton called Wanderers, and they\u2019re on either side of the river. But in, I guess, the nature of sport, we\u2019ve actually come together and we\u2019re working very well together to get some artificial turf in the city, so it\u2019s working well. It\u2019s good to see sport can bring two different political parties and adversaries together for the betterment of our communities, and that\u2019s what it\u2019s all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn this place here, we talk a lot about social welfare, how we help people, Government investment, and those kind of things\u2014mental health and all those issues\u2014but we never really talk about sport, one of the most practical things that people engage in. If we\u2019re talking about youth and getting them on to the right path, sport\u2019s a crucial part of that. It takes up time after school, it enables young men and women to pursue some energetic pursuits, it\u2019s good for physical fitness, it\u2019s good for mental health, and it\u2019s good in so many ways, and yet we don\u2019t actually fund it in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EJamie\u2019s right, and it\u2019s his first time that he\u2019s spoken on a bill in this area, and yet sport actually would achieve a lot more social goals than what we spend a lot of money on in this country, to be honest, and we just think it\u2019s something up to the community to do. How many community groups struggle day by day trying to raise money, trying to have the people that run the facilities, to actually get sport off the ground? You compare it with countries like Australia, which do put a lot of Government money into sport, and they get the results at a national level but also those underlying results in their community as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo bills like this are important\u2014that we actually support the network of sport\u2014but it\u2019s only a really small part of what we could do. If we actually had a programme that enabled some Government money to go into some artificial turf in Hamilton, it wouldn\u2019t be a bad idea. It would probably do more to keep some of the young kids out of the gangs than anything else you could do at the moment in that city. It actually would probably be one of the best things you could do at dealing with that. It\u2019d keep kids in school, it\u2019d keep kids associated with their friends, and people of different communities coming together and playing on the same field. We\u2019ve lost that in our country a lot. We\u2019ve lost that ability to come together\u2014town and country\u2014in sport, and to be able to acknowledge our differences but also come together in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOur sport\u2019s also getting divided, I think, along the lines of capability and communities. Some communities in Hamilton are great at rugby league\u2014Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia, for example\u2014and yet we don\u2019t have, actually, that ability for other communities to come together and play that same sport and understand each other, and, yet, some other communities are really focused on rowing and rugby and those kids could be great rugby league players. People like Sport Waikato have done a great job at just making sure kids play something and enjoy something and learn the fundamentals of it. I think it\u2019s one of those things that gives a balance to our youth in sport, and this bill is a starting point, but it really just highlights how deficient we are as a Parliament in actually supporting this part of our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe people that go out there, the grassroots people that run those organisations, get nothing from this place. The kids that are going to benefit from it get nothing from this place. We all enjoyed sport because we\u2019re all successful people that have had a balanced life. Many kids don\u2019t have that chance, and this is their opportunity to get a chance to have a bit of a start. I think that Jamie should be speaking two or three times on sport before the end of his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c76654a657e74fcc86fadaa6a063d639\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fbd18f429a4b9ea2dd29e29f3fccd8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014political career, and we should have some bills in there supporting infrastructure in our sports in our communities, and it would probably do a lot better than some of the other social spending that this place passed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002270a779b0487d478eb4ea8ceee74a0ad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270a779b0487d478eb4ea8ceee74a0ad8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time\u2014he was going so well, so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00229a9299228ae64e339f5b9b9caf6ee192\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a9299228ae64e339f5b9b9caf6ee192\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to take call on the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill, and I want to commend all those that have spoken on this bill for their love and passion for sport, and also those who may not have the love and passion for sport. It does not matter, because we are all New Zealanders, and we descend from a long line of navigators and of explorers\u2014it\u2019s in our DNA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to commend the Hon Grant Robertson for bringing this Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill. Obviously, we\u2019ve traversed that it will enable the establishment of an independent integrity commission. It will then identify a lot of the concepts and codes that the commission should do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut I want to commend those who referenced their own upbringing with sports. I want to add that as a young child, many, many years ago, I remember actually being chased back into the home by our parents when it was dark, because we were out playing. You know, those were the days where it was safe to stay out in your communities and play. This was after six hours at school. When you weren\u2019t in the classroom, you were out on the playground playing, whether it was bullrush or tag or whatever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204c03705611e4562a72ff3c7d4a39005\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Bullrush\u2014bring back bullrush.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc841e6a66c4361b337a94249a2f8bf\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Bullrush\u2014yes, bullrush. There you go\u2014there you go. But the point being is that as New Zealanders, the importance of physical activity is really in how we\u2019ve been shaped as we are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis bill is not just about the faults in the sport sector, but how we can get back to the days where we\u2019re attracting young people into the sector and, when they are coming into the sector, how we nurture and manaaki them in their journey in that sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOf course, in my observation, elite and professional sport has only come to New Zealand in very recent times. I\u2019m only talking about decades ago when many of our top athletes would actually travel overseas, fully paid, with a stipend. But now, as we\u2019ve morphed and we\u2019ve evolved into elite and very highly professional sports, there is a lot at stake here for many of those athletes or teams that choose to participate in elite, professional sport\u2014the enormous sacrifice they make and the hours and hours of training that these top athletes do. Then they\u2019re subjected to the selection and they either get in or they don\u2019t get in, and the heartbreak, and we\u2019ve seen many of those stories in our recent time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis commission and this bill is trying to address that, as you make those decisions as young people, or not so young people, because, you\u2019ve got to remember, we\u2019ve got bowls. We\u2019ve got very, very good bowlers in New Zealand that represent us well at the Olympics. So it\u2019s not an ageism thing; it\u2019s a recognition that when we enter into a sporting sector, we look after them so that people feel that their energies and their commitment to their sport is well considered when decisions are made, and when things don\u2019t go right, we will then have an agreed set of codes that holds everybody to account. Goodness helps the commission and those that are appointed to this board, because its focus is on integrity, and so those members are going to have to demonstrate a higher level of integrity themselves if they are then going to proceed over all the sporting bodies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to make a distinction between elite and professional sports and then our amateur grassroots sports, because I really back our amateur and grassroots sports. They are the bread and butter of many of our communities. They do a fantastic job, and they are based on volunteers and all the aunties and uncles that turn up at the clubrooms and do the meal after the rugby game or the netball game, and do the speeches or put down the h\u0101ng\u012B, because they are doing an amazing job to keep that particular sport, but, more importantly, the mana of their community is at the heart of what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation that we\u2019re reading for the first time is to ensure that our sporting sector, the one that we know as proud New Zealanders\u2014we respect the opportunity for those that go into elite and professional sport. But we will also be a beacon of hope for our grassroots amateur sports, and we recognise that enormous voluntary support that they give in ensuring that we\u2019ve got strong communities throughout the country, so that when you enter the sport, you\u2019re looked after, you\u2019re manaaki-ed, and your time in that sport enables you to then turn around and go back and give back to the very community that looked after you. Therefore, I support this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u00225e68ab4876ba458b8062b4fffdeee9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e68ab4876ba458b8062b4fffdeee9ff\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yeah, I\u2019m also really excited to be able to talk about sport in the House, just like Jamie Strange talked about\u2014really excited to see this piece of legislation that will support what Meka Whaitiri was talking about in terms of our grassroots sports. But I can\u2019t believe I almost entirely agree with David Bennett and his speech\u2014probably a first, eh, especially when I think that\u2014[Interruption] Absolutely, absolutely. Sports\u2014absolutely, sports is\u2014[Interruption] Well, absolutely, sports is, as we know, something that does bring people together. It is about looking after\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e82c7b16d3941158953ac6f66943a0d\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: David, come across!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e355fefbf9ca4165a4454d636f9bf0f0\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, come over this side, because I heard you talking about wellbeing and social inclusion, and I was like, \u201CAre you all right today, David Bennett?\u201D No, great to hear it\u2014great to hear it. But that speaks to the point, right? Sports bring people together regardless of your code or regardless of your colour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022958b76698b454370961cf7771e5a15d5\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re going to get me embarrassed now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283485cb2efbe4b8dbf2774643d9aab9e\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI\u003C/span\u003E: It brings people together. Oh, I don\u2019t mean to embarrass you; I just think it\u2019s good to bring out that social part of you, David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo, really good to be able to speak on this bill. That is what it\u2019s about, as well: it is about making sure that\u2014like many others have talked about, I also played sports; loved it. I remember I played union, I played volleyball, netball, all the really cool things, and one of the things that we did do was we were able to travel for reps and whatever it was. As a rural, regional community, we were able to meet with other regional communities, and after the game, you know, whakawhanaungatanga\u2014come together. It is that social inclusion, like Meka Whaitiri talked about. It was the nannies that were there with the cups of tea and the waters and whatever else we were able to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EI played rugby as an older person, so I am a Wanderers old-timer\u2014shout-out to all my Wandies people\u2014and we might not have had the cups of tea, but we were still able to have, you know, after your game, that family time where you are able to bring your children along and there\u2019s that encouragement of getting our youth and our young people to look at sports. My children, I have three of them, and they all play league, basketball, union, and they swim. It is good because every single day they\u2019re spending time socially with their friends. It is that grassroots where they\u2019re aspiring, especially my big boys, to become, hopefully, an elite or a professional sportsperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EThat is why this bill is important. It supports people in that space as well, makes sure that there is somewhere that people can go to if they do have any complaints, whether it is the elite or professional sports player or whether it is that grassroots rugby team that needs both guidance and standards. So that\u2019s why it is important to have a piece of legislation like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EI think, just going back to my children, they play many sports. Right throughout the week, they\u2019re training; their weekend they\u2019re actually playing the sports. Going back to talking about my big boy, his dream one day is to\u2014he\u2019s already planned it out that he\u2019s going to hopefully make the under-15 Warriors, and he\u2019s already asked all my family\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7dca5898a4343d4bbc720a9fba68ae8\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, South Sydney Rabbitohs!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221785e893a7604f78b13928b2953c5081\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I don\u2019t know; I like Moana Pasifika, so I don\u2019t know how I can get him to switch, but that\u2019s his dream, and he\u2019s already asked all my family in Auckland, \u201CWho am I going to stay with when I make the under-15s?\u201D He\u2019s got that dream. He looks at those professional and elite athletes and he\u2019s like, \u201CThis is my dream.\u201D But he also sees some of the athletes that might not be fully supported, and what does that look like for him? So, again, a bill like this, where we are looking at making sure that we\u2019re establishing a commission that is independent, that can hear the concerns from not just, like I said before, the elite and the professionals but from our grassroots people as well. It\u2019ll show people like my son that a sports career can be a safe space, that there are those standards in place to be able to support him\u2014hopefully, that he gets those dreams for himself and others. But that\u2019s what this is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo we had that consultation. We went out and we spoke to a wide range of organisations and people in this space; they all wanted, and the key\u2014and I think Minister Grant Robertson talked about how the key was having an independent commission for this. So we talked to all those people in 2018. The recommendation came back last year that this would be a great idea to establish this commission, make sure that it\u2019s independent, make sure it\u2019s accessible for not just the elite and the professionals but for our grassroots, have those standards in place for everyone to make sure that they feel supported and safe in their sports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBut, again, great piece of legislation, and just like everyone else in the last few speeches, I encourage people to uptake sport. It\u2019s a great thing for New Zealand. And, also, my wishes also go to our women footies as well\u2014go the girls!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6a47789f2b4ff69c704b0711b949b4\u0022\u003ETama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora t\u0101tou. Kia ora e te kai\u0101rahi, te Kaik\u014Drero o te Whare\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00228654966adc0446d495c7d1d5892d8613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228654966adc0446d495c7d1d5892d8613\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Tama Potaka needs to seek the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be997f54332c4ff5ae2cf3ff234fa450\u0022\u003ETama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451ebf7ad94d44bf81a351e2629405f3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Tama Potaka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdb8e2df974a435d9a0880a73a624037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdb8e2df974a435d9a0880a73a624037\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to comment\u2014in a healthy manner\u2014on the first reading of the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill. I\u2019m pretty mindful that this bill is in the name of the Hon Grant Robertson, and willingly admit that he and I were involved in a lot of recreation\u2014but not recreational matters\u2014for several years in New York City. It was there that I heard one of the biggest patsy questions, asked by an Australian to Nelson Mandela: \u201CHow does sport unify people?\u201D It was a very interesting question, given that the great man Nelson Mandela had just emerged from prison in South Africa and was doing a tour of the world, talking about unifying people. And in rural New Zealand\u2014it was inspiring to hear my colleague and fellow Hamiltonian, Jamie Strange; and almost for the first time, three Hamiltonians in a row, with David Bennett nearly imitating the Chiefs rugby team, which at this stage is six for six. And I wanted to acknowledge the recent Aupiki women\u2019s rugby final: absolutely fantastic\u2014sadly, Manawa lost to Matat\u016B, but the fact is, women, rugby, and sports were the winners on the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EUnlike my urban friends\u2014some of which are here today\u2014I grew up playing some genuine rural sports, like spotlight, long ball, tee ball, go home, stay home\u2014and the occasional game of chains, which only people from Taihape like my whanaunga Shanan Halbert and I actually know about. K\u012B-o-rahi and triathlon\u2014they actually didn\u2019t exist in Hunterville at the time, but rugby really dominated my life. I spent many a moment at the Hunterville Rugby Club waiting for my father and driving him home, and, subsequently, the Te Aute College first XV, which Minister Whaitiri will recall with fondness, her brothers\u2019 faces adorning the walls of the Te Aute wharekai\u2014all three of them, actually. There were three sports available at Te Aute: rugby, rugby, and rugby\u2014and I was lucky enough to be on the 1990 Te Aute College softball team when we toured Australia; I was the scorer. Then I was lucky enough to participate in events like the national touch championships in Auckland\u2014and, actually, 1998, when I was the Wellington team\u2019s masseuse. Later in life, I tried to be the next Cameron Brown by training over in Iron M\u0101ori half Ironman, and I wanted to pay a special acknowledgment to my whanaunga Heather and Wayne Skipworth for the magnificent work that they\u2019ve been doing in Te Matau-a-M\u0101ui and throughout Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EBut participating in Ironman and Ironwoman New Zealand\u2014I always say Ironman and Ironwoman New Zealand\u2014was somewhat challenging, perhaps embarrassing, actually, to me, because often I\u2019d be coming in on the bike, and Cameron Brown at the age of 42 would be finishing the run. And it was a bit daunting to me to know that I still had a marathon to go after the folks at the end had finished their race, but the lakefront in Taup\u014D is just about as beautiful as the Rangit\u012Bkei river valley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ESo organising TriM\u0101ori with my wife, with the kaupapa, \u201CFor the Wh\u0101nau\u201D, was an inspiring and motivating part of my life. To engage with people, to invite them to participate in health and wellbeing, and to bring them to the mighty Waikato river at Karapiro and the whenua, to reconnect them in sport\u2014actually enables that, and enables people not only to connect with one another but also to connect with our taiao and with our rivers, with our lakes\u2014with our iced-up lakes; curling in the South Island\u2014and the hills and the mountains of our t\u012Bpuna. But what an absolutely inspiring moment for me to see during those TriM\u0101ori events that we used to run, my peers coming together\u2014three of them good friends of mine, each being over 250 kilograms, to be swimming, cycling and run-walk-running their way to good health. Since then, I\u2019ve had the great fortune of having children with my wife and seeing them participate in various sporting activities, whether or not it\u2019s rugby down at the Grammar TEC clubrooms or the Hamilton Boys\u2019 High clubrooms; my daughter playing rugby for the Waikato Diocesan School and hockey, basketball, judo, karate, and all the other activities that I\u2019ve become a professional Uber driver in participating in. But at the outset, I affirm National\u2019s support for this bill and forward to discussions on how to better strengthen and protect the integrity of the sport and recreation sector by establishing the independent Crown entity known as the Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EOver the years, our nightly intake of nutritious and sometimes gluten-light meals in the evenings have been interrupted by various news reports alleging breaches of integrity and breaches of mana tangata across professional sports organisations, with cycling being particularly topical. Now, these stories were sometimes very gutting and wrenching to hear about, particularly given the incursion of mana tangata amongst these athletes who have dedicated their lives\u2014and sometimes their wh\u0101nau members\u2019 lives\u2014to achieving at the apex of their chosen sports. Now, National gives tautoko to the proposal to set up a commission to handle integrity issues in the sports sector, and particularly helpful that the commission is independent from Sport New Zealand and High Performance Sport New Zealand. I\u2019m mindful about the reports that Mike Heron KC and others undertook and delivered into high performance cycling, which noted some distressing matters around aggressive texting, coach-athlete relationships, the bullying and belittling of athletes by coaches for the athletes raising concerns, shaming on various matters, and other related toxic behaviour. But that lack of accountability, effective leadership, human resources, culture\u2014and for want of a better term\u2014rangatiratanga, leadership, worried Heron and others, and led to what I would describe as real, genuine mana tangata issues. So this bill is something that we would commend for further discussion. Heron\u2019s and others recommendations to address those issues and athlete safeguarding and to reconsider the funding model were insightful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of issues that we would like to see addressed: the high level of power proposed for the commission to require organisations to supply documents or information during an investigation\u2014that might need a bit better balancing, a bit better checking, and to be a bit better justified\u2014and the optionality that the commission may publish reports upon its investigations. That\u2019s something that we want to see a bit more action, a bit more inquisition, and a bit more debate around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ESo, sport: it\u2019s a platform for success, a platform for health and wellbeing, and a platform for kotahitanga across our country. How does sport unify people? It unites through mana tangata; it unites the country; and I hope, and I pray, and I recommend that all of us in this House today unite behind the Chiefs for the Super Rugby finals. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022447658f60b9542c5b44aeacbf83beb0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022447658f60b9542c5b44aeacbf83beb0c\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s an absolute honour and a privilege to speak on the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI know we\u2019ve heard members in the House talk about sport, but I remember when the last time Tonga played the All Blacks, and Tonga, the \u2018Ikale Tahi, actually, they lost, but they scored the last try. I then said to the Speaker\u2014then Speaker Trevor Mallard\u2014that the last score wins. So that\u2019s what I\u2019m just saying about this speech here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Hon Grant Robertson for bringing this into the House. But before I get on to the bill, I\u2019m not sure whether anyone really knows there\u2019s a game called futsal, which plays five-a-side. FIFA is that sport\u2019s governing body. So I want to congratulate the Papakura City futsal women\u2019s team. Yesterday, they beat the Bay of Plenty - Waikato team, so Papakura City retain their national women\u2019s futsal title. So congratulations to the women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to talk about two areas of this bill because I think it\u2019s important. If people are listening in who are involved in sports, it\u2019s important that the public understands what it is. In clause 4, under interpretation, it talks about the interpretation of national recreational organisation. So it defines it as meaning organisations that represent members in a particular type of organised physical event or activity in New Zealand, but does not include a local, regional, or other recreational organisations not operating at a national level. So this talks about operating at the national level, but also it has to have all those levels that I spoke about. Also, it defines what a \u201Cnational sporting organisation\u201D means. It means members involved in a particular type of sporting event or activity in New Zealand and, if a national organisation does not exist for sport, includes local, regional, and or other sporting organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to bring that to the debate because I\u2019d like to ask people, as the Minister for Sport and Recreation said before, to please put in a submission at select committee. Put in a submission because the Minister would like to hear and, of course, the Social Services and Community Committee, which I\u2019m part of, would also love to hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EThe title of the bill talks about integrity in sport and recreation. In clause 5, it talks about the meaning of threat to integrity, so it defines it there. One of the things that I want to really speak about is about manipulation of the result of sport competition\u2014that\u2019s about sport betting. People in the House have spoken about their children being involved in sports, and future athletes. Paragraph (c) talks about bullying. It defines threats to integrity as \u201Cbullying, violence, abuse, sexual misconduct, intimidation, harassment, or racism or other discrimination in sport or organised physical recreation:\u201D. If you\u2019re listening in and you\u2019d like to contribute, if the members of the public think there is something else that we should include in that, then this is an opportunity to put in a submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the people who manage the sport. Most people have talked about their sports prowess as players, but, as a manager, I managed the four Tonga touch teams that went and competed in Australia in 1999. We went there 20th rating; we came back seventh, so I think that\u2019s a success on the tour manager\u2019s behalf, and that\u2019s myself. These rules\u2014actually putting this independent body\u2014are about looking after those athletes, and not just that but also supporters within the game as well, so that if they have a complaint, if it\u2019s not resolved at the level that they\u2019re at, actually, this new body would provide that support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge my other management title. I also managed the first Tonga rugby team. I do have a metal plate in my right foot\u2014I was a player-manager. I want to say kia ora to all the props out there. So that\u2019s why I walk with a limp\u2014because of that. I want to acknowledge that it is the passion that people put into sports. This bill will definitely protect every person who is involved in the area of sports. On that note, I commend the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill to the House. M\u0101l\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002233bca6fc61974703927cc93a4247219c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000522\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022692648da3dfe495689fbc369eaab8239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022692648da3dfe495689fbc369eaab8239\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db1b1c72996046b7ae021680a0777614\u0022\u003EInstruction to Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022014632b1db0a49c1a21c7b34c0769632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022014632b1db0a49c1a21c7b34c0769632\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Minister of Internal Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Sport and Recreation: I move, That the Integrity Sport and Recreation Bill be reported to the House by 10\u00A0August 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284abbf48657544959ed39ec225a02163\u0022\u003ECounter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224297894d3a124ef9a49d0846ca6a484e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000531\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef7ce3df252a4a66be250342d00407be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef7ce3df252a4a66be250342d00407be\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a bill that addresses, I think we all agree, a very significant issue, which is the way that our nation responds to the very present threat, and now we have learnt since March 15th, 2019 of the present threat of very real violence on our soil posed by extremism and terrorism globally and domestically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe Green Party of Aotearoa initially supported this bill to select committee because we were interested in the way that the Justice Committee\u2019s engagement would inform and benefit the drafting. It was important to us to say that, actually, if a Government does realise that counter-terrorism law is not working to both uphold people\u2019s rights but also to respond effectively to new and changing threats of counter-terrorism, we do, in fact, bring changes to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThis bill and our approach to counter-terrorism comes to us in the context of the decades-long war on terror\u2014the so-called war on terror\u2014where we saw New Zealand follow our so-called allies and security partners into more and more opaque and far-reaching amorphous counter-terrorism policy and law that wasn\u2019t necessarily effective, and, as we learnt on March 15th, had, in fact, such gaping holes in both operation and policy as to be impotent in the face of very real threat that was, in fact, foreseeable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we were interested to see what the select committee would do, and there have been some changes. What has happened is the provision defining \u201Cimprisonment\u201D in this bill seeks to change the control orders regime to include application to those in prison to include home detention. So that\u2019s an expansion, but it also excludes youth in Oranga Tamariki residencies, and it amends the security proceedings Act to provide the same right to a designated person to request a summary of the information that\u2019s been used in the designation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESome of the types of concerns that the Green Party has had throughout time, and in particular around the application of the control orders regime, have been about that ability to challenge effectively and fairly when these quite restrictive orders are being applied to an individual. And we know that throughout that kind of era of the war on terror, we\u2019ve had security agencies withholding information to such a degree as to result in people being held in criminal detention without charge or trial or even access to the information upon which their detention was based. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI note, prominently, the asylum seeker Ahmed Zaoui, who was then freed through court proceedings that had to initiate totally new, novel rights and pierce that veil of the security agencies within the safe context of judges and lawyers who could handle that material that was held against him and find that, in fact, there was no threat. So that\u2019s a real concern for us when we talk about control orders. I note that the expansion of application didn\u2019t come with an alleviation of what we saw as a potential problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI just want to focus on some of the civil society and human rights - based submitters and some of the issues that they raised that we share. So, for example, Amnesty International New Zealand had a real problem\u2014as do we\u2014with the retrospective application of the provisions here. We know that as a House and a legislative body, we have an obligation to uphold the principle of legality, which says that the law has to be knowable and transparent if it is to sanction conduct of anyone that it applies to. So to retrospectively sanction breaches that principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThere was a lack of Crown-M\u0101ori consultation, which the Law Society raised, and that is always important as a Te Tiriti issue. But in the forum of counter-terrorism, it becomes galling to say that we\u2019re changing counter-terrorism laws again without that partnership consultation, because we know\u2014and because the royal commission into the Christchurch terror attack told us\u2014very clearly, as communities had been telling us and as courts had been telling us, that, actually, our security agencies, when it comes to counter-terrorism, do focus on and unduly prejudice certain communities who are not, in fact, engaged in terror activities or pose a threat in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIn applying restrictive burdens to those communities, in fact, our security agencies become less effective and less able to respond to see the real threat in our systems, and in terms of the royal commission\u2019s report, of course, that was the threat of white nationalism that they had missed. M\u0101ori have been\u2014and we know through the history of the application of our surveillance laws, both by police and our national security agencies\u2014the target of that unfair application. So that consultation would have been, in fact, both very timely and would have contributed to the efficacy of what this bill seeks to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe other issue that doesn\u2019t seem to be addressed properly here by the Minister or in the context of this bill is that, in fact\u2014and this was something that the Green Party actually negotiated last term in the initial control orders regime\u2014next year, there is to be a proper review of the regime, with recommendations of what legislative and policy changes it may need. So this was really important to us, as I said at the start of my contribution, because we want Governments to be ready to review and respond appropriately to the different and evolving threat of terrorism and be willing to say, \u201CActually, we didn\u2019t do it quite right. Maybe we breached some very fundamental rights.\u201D, or \u201CMaybe we weren\u2019t looking carefully enough at the pervasive threats of our time.\u201D That was really important for us, but that needs to be done in the context of a proper review so that when changes come to this House, they are comprehensive and they are reflective of what, in fact, needs to be done in the counter-terrorism space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo to have a piecemeal approach to that review process in legislative terms seems odd, and, of course, given, in this year, our precious legislative time that this House has left, it seems odd to bring this bill, especially not addressing some of the really significant civil society concerns ahead of that proper comprehensive review. Again, things like recommendations around having an independent body that would make those recommendations\u2014as the United Kingdom has\u2014and how to better actually approach counter-terrorism and modern extremism as a threat is kind of undermined by the bringing of this bill in an untimely and rushed way, because it proceeds that proper review that the Government has promised and has built into the control orders regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we have concerns about the designation framework. We have concerns that the provisions around those in prison, and now on home detention, are not subject to a judicial process within the secure confines of a court or, with appointment of a judicial officer, the person can effectively challenge control orders that are, again, very restrictive in nature, in some cases. We are concerned that there wasn\u2019t proper consultation with communities that are most impacted by counter-terrorism, and, in particular, the application of restrictive measures, surveillance, and other measures that Governments say are to do with counter-terrorism but often are prejudice based.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe are concerned that this piece of legislation falls outside of a comprehensive process that would better inform our work as a Parliament passing counter-terrorism legislation. I don\u2019t commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ba4a3ebd8040438d3f4fbbe30166ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ba4a3ebd8040438d3f4fbbe30166ce\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I rise today to take a call on the counter-terrorism bill and I do so as a member of the Justice Committee that actually heard the inquiry into this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI first want to acknowledge the legitimate concerns that have been raised by my friend across the House Ms Ghahraman, because this is a weighty bill and it is right that we should think carefully about the things that we are doing. It is therefore really relevant that Ms Ghahraman mentioned the fact that we are coming up on a thorough review of this regime as set out in the legislation. But while we have that care to take\u2014and we must take it because we are dealing with people\u2019s fundamental rights and it is their liberties and those are not things to be trespassed lightly. While it is hugely important that we take that care, while I am sure that all of us look toward the review process that will happen in due course to ensure that we are tightening and getting the regime right for both sides of the spectrum\u2014both the affected people or entities, and also for the safety of the ordinary Kiwi citizen\u2014it is also important sometimes that we move fast to adapt to changing circumstances and to gaps we find in our legislation that emerge as events transpire. One of these has brought us the need for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWe all are aware of the appalling LynnMall attacks and we all are aware that when we looked at that particular person, the regime as it stood was simply not sufficient. So it was necessary to bring something to this House which will ensure that until we have that chance to do the longer review, we are covering those gaps in the system that we know about. That is our basic responsibility to Kiwi citizens: to not leave citizens at risk where we know that there is a risk to them, theoretically, in existence and we know that we have not got the powers to deal with that situation should it arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI do, however, want to speak to the 210 submitters who we had write in on this bill, many of whom were concerned that the bill is in some way an arbitrary power of the Prime Minister to designate entities and people as terrorists and then to slap restrictive control orders upon them. There was a lot of concern that somehow this was an authoritarian and arbitrary power given to the Prime Minister personally. That is not so. When you actually understand the bill and you go through the bill here, there is a careful, considered, and quite difficult series of stages that must be gone through before anyone can either be designated or can be the subject of a control order. So I would just caution anyone who is concerned and sees this bill as a major step towards the sort of State that we would never wish to see New Zealand become: it is not. This is quite targeted, it is quite careful, and, hopefully, will rarely be applied because it will rarely be necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut I do now just want to step very briefly through what it will do. So it covers two things: the first bit is that we have tightened up the designation scheme, which is the scheme that allows us to talk to what is a terrorist entity. It\u2019s pointed out that if one of those people is in jail so that they are no longer a present threat, we\u2019re still going to be able to keep their designation there because they will become a risk when they come out. The other one is to make the control order regime more workable and to enable it to cover those who are not in prison but who are sentenced to a broader range of sentences such as home detention or electronic bail monitoring. It also enables judges to have more discretion to tailor control regimes so that they are effective and not too onerous, and it also involves a wider range of objectionable publications in the test for eligibility. It has gone from merely objectionable publications that are terrorist events to also extreme violent events, because, as we will explain, there is a link. On that basis. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69f3b61542b49598f16cedb0f0bdeb6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave to the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00228ba6c78cbbb84ab8b2cefcb187a2e45f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ba6c78cbbb84ab8b2cefcb187a2e45f\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise this evening to speak on the second reading of the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. I wasn\u2019t fortunate enough to have been on the Justice Committee that considered this, but I have taken a look at the report and I see there\u2019s some good members on that committee who I\u2019m sure would have considered this carefully, and I thank them for the work they have done on it. I note that they received written submissions from 210 interested groups and individuals, and heard oral evidence from four submitters via video conference, also receiving advice from the Ministry of Justice, and the Office of the Clerk provided advice on the bill\u2019s legislative quality, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office assisted with legal drafting. So thank you to all of them for the work that has gone into trying to ensure this is a good bill that will stand the test of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThis bill clarifies and strengthens New Zealand\u2019s counter-terrorism legislation to better prevent and respond to terrorism and associated activities. The amendments in the bill implement a single broad policy by amending the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 and the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act 2019. National will be supporting this bill continuing through the second reading and onwards\u2014after being consulted by the Government\u2014and does acknowledge that the Government consulted the National Party on this important national security matter. It\u2019s important that there\u2019s cross-party consensus on matters of national security and we do thank the Government for taking on board our feedback.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe bill tightens a gap in the law that does not explicitly outline the circumstances of a designated person imprisoned in New Zealand and makes clear what they are. It also broadens the definition of offence and eligibility to be subject to a control order, and that is a sensible change. It is important that the State uses the tools at its disposal to respond to known terrorist threats with appropriate oversight that protects our civil liberties, and we believe that this bill does strike the right balance. It is important the State is able to proactively mitigate and manage terrorist risks before they occur, which this bill endeavours to help with that objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, New Zealand is no longer immune to threats of terrorism, as we may have once considered that we were; unfortunately, the New Lynn attack and the Christchurch attack have made that clear. Therefore, it is important that the framework that we have to respond to terrorism responds proportionately to that level of risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI see that the select committee recommended that there is a clarification of the meaning of \u201Cimprisonment\u201D, with the replacement section 35G(1), inserted by clause 8, defining the term \u201Cimprisoned\u201D for an individual designated as a terrorist entity. That would include young people aged 14 to 17 serving a sentence of imprisonment in an Oranga Tamariki residence or in a prison. And the select committee believe that the definition of \u201Cimprisonment\u201D in the bill should apply only to young people in the custody of the Department of Corrections or the police. The select committee noted that the provisions of the bill were intended to apply to individuals whose actions are sufficiently limited by imprisonment, that it would be difficult for the Prime Minister to gauge whether their designation remained necessary to prevent further terrorist acts, and noted that youth in Oranga Tamariki residences have greater access to unmonitored phone calls, letters, and visits, and greater scope to visit wh\u0101nau outside than those in a prison. So, therefore, the select committee was of the view that the Oranga Tamariki youth justice residences were not so restricted as to pose challenges for the Prime Minister in considering whether an individual\u2019s designation remained necessary to prevent further terrorist acts, and, therefore, made some recommendations on amendments that would make it clear that young people are only covered by the provisions of this bill if they are detained by the Department of Corrections or the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThere was some clarification, as well, around the electronic monitoring requirements. Schedule 2 of the bill would insert a new Schedule 3 into the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act and Schedule 3 would establish provisions relating to the electronic monitoring of an individual who has had a requirement for electronic monitoring imposed as a condition of a control order. That is certainly a sensible piece of this bill, as I certainly have seen in my previous career the value of electronic monitoring. It, unfortunately, doesn\u2019t always work, it is subject to the individual complying with those provisions, but it certainly alerts the authorities very quickly when that person doesn\u2019t comply. So, with that, I recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00226a42a1911bb84f4998d4f2e7c43a8426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a42a1911bb84f4998d4f2e7c43a8426\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Speaker. Thank you. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a brief call on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill this evening. In doing so, I want to acknowledge the work that the Justice Committee has undertaken in getting this bill to this point in the House this evening. I\u2019m not a member of the Justice Committee, but I have had an opportunity from time to time to sub in on that committee and I know they\u2019re very diligent. In their report they note that they received 210 submissions on this. They heard from a handful of oral submitters and have taken on board, it seems, the feedback that they garnered as part of that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis bill is the next step in the Government\u2019s journey around ensuring that we have in this country counter-terrorism legislation that is appropriate, is able to suit the context, and is fit for purpose, and the strengthening of those particular laws in the counter-terrorism space is exactly what this bill seeks to deliver. In fact, it seeks to make it more difficult or harder for individuals\u2014who are known as individuals who are threats\u2014to undertake acts of terrorism. The strengthening of this designation scheme that would exist seems to make it more explicit to cover individuals who are incarcerated, who are imprisoned, here in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe monitoring functions that are currently undertaken by Corrections staff in New Zealand is something that I have, prior to Parliament, had an opportunity to be a part of, as a visiting justice in prisons here in New Zealand. So I know that the staff in Corrections and others who would be involved as part of that monitoring process will appreciate, as Mr Mooney has already indicated in his contribution this evening, the additional tools that the State has at its disposal to seek to deliver on what the intention of this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen we look at some of the amendments that have been suggested by the select committee, one actually seeks to strengthen the control orders regime within the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Act of 2019 by expanding the eligibility criteria, or the criteria within which eligibility would be considered, by giving courts more discretion. Those who are members of this House who have had some involvement with the justice system here in New Zealand, who\u2019ve had involvement in courts, will appreciate that from time to time it is extremely important that courts do have available to them discretion. And so this is a piece of legislation that will allow for that to exist in courtrooms and for courts here in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI was interested to see that one of the considerations around where that discretion exists is in the imposition of conditions. It would seem to me in my assessment that when a court is looking to impose conditions, the context is extremely important. When we look at the context of the origin of this change around New Lynn, but also the events of Christchurch, courts need to have at their disposal flexibility and discretion when it comes to imposing conditions, but also when it relates to the various settings that exist for name suppression. Again, in the bail court jurisdiction I\u2019ve had experience prior to Parliament of making decisions around where the name suppression should be\u2014well, not just considered but imposed. So there are very clear guidelines around that in courts and this is a piece of legislation that will assist that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve talked a wee bit around context, and context continues to be important. What this bill does is it provides an ability for the scheme around designating terrorist entities within the Act to be one that is responsive, one that is to be well considered, but also, actually, fundamentally, one that aligns itself with considerations of natural justice. This is something that those who are making those decisions, whether they be in courtrooms or whether they be decisions that are to be taken by the Prime Minister around considering particular aspects\u2014that elements of natural justice and elements of fairness will be considered as part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo, again, I congratulate and thank the hard-working members of the Justice Committee for their diligence around this, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf354b3908364fa7b2a9f32ee14ece72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf354b3908364fa7b2a9f32ee14ece72\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. It is very clear from the speeches that we\u2019ve heard through the House\u2014this debate started off last week already\u2014that there has been a very collaborative approach to getting this bill back to the House. So I would like to start where the previous speaker left off by thanking my colleagues on the Justice Committee for their mahi on the control order regime and how it could be strengthened. The select committee received 210 submissions, and a previous speaker, Emily Henderson, already spoke about some of the issues that were raised during that particular process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo responding to the threats that we are seeing, the Government is strengthening the counter-terrorism laws to make it harder for people who are known threats to actually undertake terrorist acts. It was in a previous speech by the awesome chair of the Justice Committee, Vanushi Walters\u2014it outlined in great detail how those amendments very carefully balance the rights and freedoms of those individuals that they may apply to. And we\u2019ve heard that it is very important that we take care in that balancing because, of course, we are dealing with people\u2019s rights and liberties. Prior to the dinner break, my awesome colleague, Emily Henderson, already spoke about that particular issue. It\u2019s also important to note that we are coming up\u2014as she actually mentioned\u2014to a thorough review of this regime as it is set out in legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo this bill amends the current designation scheme to clarify matters relating to the expiry, renewal, and revocation of designations. That is because the current designation scheme doesn\u2019t specifically address the circumstance of a designated person being imprisoned in New Zealand. And so, as a result, there is ambiguity in how the designation scheme applies to such persons. And ambiguity, of course, in legislation is never a good thing. But particularly in this instance, given the devastating consequences of a terrorist attack, it is crucial that the Prime Minister\u2019s powers to prevent and suppress terrorism in the evolved global terrorism landscape are entirely clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, the previous speaker, Tangi Utikere, already spoke on the expansion of the eligibility criteria. I was going to run through those, but he very eloquently spoke on those\u2014the greater judicial discretion and the importance for courts to have this discretion\u2014so I will leave it at that. But the bill makes several of those targeted changes to improve the current control orders regime, and it does so by incorporating some of the lessons that we\u2019ve learnt from the granting of New Zealand\u2019s first and only control order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo several speakers have discussed those targeted changes in detail. The changes will improve the effectiveness of the control orders Act and expand the criteria for high-risk individuals who can be covered by the restrictions. That, as I said previously, will limit their ability to undertake any attack. So our goal, obviously, must always be to ensure we can effectively manage and respond to the specific threats that we are seeing in Aotearoa New Zealand, and, therefore, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u002243c5697d3de14f1d95ddb4d92c1f6da9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c5697d3de14f1d95ddb4d92c1f6da9\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, I\u2019m happy to take a call here in the second reading of the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill. Look, I think it\u2019s been reasonably well covered by previous speakers in terms of the content of the bill, but I do want to make a few points, specifically, as we pass this through its next stage\u2014and I\u2019m confident it will; we will be supporting it, as we have so far. I think it\u2019s important, on a piece of legislation such as this, that there is bipartisan support, acknowledging the seriousness of the legislation we\u2019re putting in place to try and prevent or reduce that risk, and, indeed, the fact that that threat environment can evolve quite rapidly and increase or decrease over time and do so on any number of occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EIndeed, I think we\u2019ve got to the point now where we\u2019re realising that we need this sort of legislation. It\u2019s not something we\u2019ve had to have through our history, and that\u2019s something we should be proud of. But, unfortunately, the sad reality now is that we need to be more cognisant of these sorts of threats, from a terrorism perspective, in particular, and responding appropriately to that is critical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI do want to just pick up on the comments made by a couple of members now\u2014Emily Henderson, as the previous speaker alluded to, but also the Green Party member Golriz Ghahraman, who touched on the upcoming review. That is an important step, but, actually, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s appropriate, unlike the Green member, to wait for that review to happen. There is a level of risk right now, and we need to make sure that we\u2019re able to respond effectively to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation helps to tighten up some of the criteria around the control orders and designations that can be put in place, and, indeed, more appropriately reflects the fact that someone, whilst they may be imprisoned, may or may not continue to hold a certain set of beliefs. So pausing that designation whilst they are incarcerated is appropriate, and, of course, having the Prime Minister review that on a three-yearly basis as well, I think, is an appropriate counter to leaving it in place or, effectively, pausing the designation, as it were, whilst they\u2019re incarcerated. Indeed, it can be difficult to understand, from that context, whether or not they are still firmly of the belief that may have led to them being there or to the designation being put in place, as the case may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, on that basis, those particular aspects, I think, are an appropriate, practical closing of a loophole there that potentially could have caused some issues. That also is why I think it\u2019s appropriate to have the retrospective element in the legislation, which normally is not good practice in lawmaking, to have retrospective elements, but, in this case, again, it\u2019s appropriate because of the nature of what we\u2019re trying to do here, to fix some loopholes that were in place in the existing legislation. So, therefore, this applies to anyone currently subject to one of those designations who may be in prison and then subject to the pause being put in place on their designation, and, indeed, the subsequent review by the Prime Minister as well. So those are practical changes to be made there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EOn the control orders as well, again, it\u2019s important to be able to adapt to the lessons that we have taken through this journey. Having only put one control order in place so far, there have been some lessons learnt from what is or isn\u2019t fit for purpose in that context. So being able to tighten that up through this legislation as well is an appropriate response to ensure that we have that flexibility and, indeed, the ability to, have, I guess, some discretion, as Mr Utikere mentioned as well, to better reflect individual circumstances. Those individual circumstances can be extremely varied and it can be difficult to capture that appropriately, and so having a level of discretion is a good measure to help support the right outcome, ultimately, with this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, look, we\u2019re comfortable that this has landed in the right place, acknowledging some of the concerns raised through the Justice Committee by the 210-odd submitters, I believe it was, who took the time to share their views. Again, it just highlights that even though we think we have a great piece of legislation, there\u2019s always opportunity to refine that, which speaks to the benefit of the select committee process, which has far too often been truncated under this Government. But we have got to a good outcome here on this piece of legislation, and so we are happy to continue supporting it at the second reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022efdec02b7f63473fb6f021fa687a9395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efdec02b7f63473fb6f021fa687a9395\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E This time, Madam Speaker. Thank very much for the opportunity to speak tonight. The Government is strengthening counter-terrorism laws to make it harder for people who are known threats to undertake terrorist acts. This bill is an important part of the wider work programme that the Government has undertaken to make sure our laws are fit for purpose. That is why I was very enthusiastic and tried to jump the speaking order, and I do apologise for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI have spoken in this House about the Government\u2019s changes to our counter-terrorism framework many times and have outlined for the House my views on striking the balance correctly between the rights of individuals and the need for community safety. I think that this bill does that and so I\u2019m not going to spend a long time on that tonight. What I do want to focus on is just a clarification. Now, many speakers in this House, in this debate, have spoken about the changes that the select committee made about young offenders, and I want to just clarify what the iterative changes were at the select committee level before we close off this debate at second reading, because it is important that the House is aware of the changes that were proposed and the advice that the Justice Committee took on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo if we look to the first departmental report which has been released along with these documents, we find that the Justice Committee considered the ministry\u2019s advice that it had identified that the current definition of \u201Cimprisonment\u201D in replacement section 35G(1), inserted by clause 8\u2014which the earlier speaker Joseph Mooney spoke about\u2014covered adults held on remand, awaiting trial or sentence, and young people and adults serving a sentence of imprisonment, no matter where they are held. But it did not cover young people held on remand, pending trial or sentence, or other young people held in an Oranga Tamariki youth justice residence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe reason I read that part of the departmental report is because it gave the committee an opportunity to discuss amongst ourselves and with our advisers what the nature of a control order was in this context\u2014what sort of behaviour we were trying to control and what sort of behaviour would need to be demonstrated by somebody who was subject to one of these orders\u2014and then whether a young person in the situation, where they were detained at a youth justice residence or a youth justice facility, would be able to demonstrate through their behaviour whether they would meet the criteria for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo to give you a little bit of context in this, a youth justice residence might be an Oranga Tamariki facility like Whakatakapokai in the Manurewa electorate, where young people are under Oranga Tamariki care. There may not be another place for them to go. They may be facing charges; they may have been sentenced. There\u2019s a range of reasons why they will be in a facility like that. A youth justice and a corrections facility is like Korowai Manaaki, which is also in the Manurewa electorate, which is, by all intents and purposes, a prison for young offenders. They have quite different standards of how young people are held in those facilities, and young people within those facilities are able to do quite different things. The committee had to consider whether a young person who is held in an Oranga Tamariki residence had the sort of freedoms where a decision maker like the Prime Minister would be able to gauge whether they were a significant risk to the community and whether they needed to have a control order in place to monitor their behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo, at first, where the ministry was providing advice that there was a discrepancy there, the committee was able to test with officials whether that was a change that we needed to make, given that in Oranga Tamariki facilities, young people are able to do more; they\u2019re able to communicate with their families, they\u2019re able to have different sorts of visits. In the end, the Justice Committee tested that quite strongly, and we were able to come to a position which was then supported by the officials where they were able to come back to us and say, actually, there are freedoms that exist for young people in those kinds of facilities, so the Prime Minister would be able to gauge whether they were someone who needed a control order in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt gave the committee a good reason to also test what kinds of conditions would be imposed by these control orders. We have taken good advice on other examples, particularly in the UK where control orders have been challenged and where excessive control orders have not stood up in the courts, and the committee arrived at what is a sensible balance with sensible controls in place to ensure that these meet our expectations of the rights and freedoms that individuals would expect\u2014but where the community can have confidence that they are safe because of this legislation. That\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002209df947a8e414187a2b046aef641070e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Counter-Terrorism Acts (Designations and Control Orders) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; New Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000584\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdd9646990a848c5b41b60b83b5ebad4\u0022\u003ELocal Government Electoral Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294cf7a6c18444d83885e81728e8fc4e2\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022b784c1c7289f4797aad2d1de14fd714c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b784c1c7289f4797aad2d1de14fd714c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab4850d2ea6d4130b54e9a33f08beff8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248dcf19c3d144af89ab8b2339a74de5a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI wish to start today by acknowledging the previous Minister of Local Government, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, who oversaw the initial work of this bill and whose vision for a stronger local government system and a fairer local electoral system takes another step forward today. To put it plainly, the local electoral system is the tool we use to find people who will make important decisions on behalf of their local communities. Like any tool, it needs the occasional tune-up. This bill makes changes to several Acts that will improve the way that individuals and communities are represented by, and can participate in, local government actions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe bill does this by establishing a fit for purpose process for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation, providing for more flexibility for different representation arrangements at Auckland Council, and updating the recount rules for local elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with M\u0101ori wards. This Government took a first step to change this in 2021, when we amended the poll provisions in relation to the creation of M\u0101ori wards. The polls against M\u0101ori wards were discriminatory. No other type of ward was subject to the same poll. Even the possibility of a poll was a bigger barrier to M\u0101ori representation than most people had thought. The first stage of changes was necessary to help councils get ready for the 2022 elections. Almost overnight, Aotearoa went from having just three councils with M\u0101ori wards to 34. Last October, 66 councillors were elected to represent M\u0101ori communities. The perspectives they bring will make a real impact on local governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow we are looking towards the future. This bill sets out an enduring process for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation. New Zealanders will be able to have their say on the issues in a new engagement process that will be run by councils. This process will ask, \u201CWhat value can M\u0101ori representation add in your area?\u201D Representation decisions cannot happen in a vacuum or be swept under the rug. There must be a conversation, and this bill ensures that will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does not do is require councils to have M\u0101ori wards. These are important, local decisions. M\u0101ori wards might not work everywhere, and that\u2019s OK. There are lots of other ways to improve M\u0101ori representation, and I saw different approaches to M\u0101ori representation around the country when I visited the 55 rural and provincial councils last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ECouncils and the Local Government Commission will be pleased to hear that this bill changes some of the time frames of the representation review process. Officials in the Governance and Administration Committee heard that representation review time frames have been too tight, and I appreciate that feedback. We have made a change so that everyone gets a bit more time going forward. This means that we will have a fairer representation review process that works for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs we all know, the North Island severe weather events have caused extensive damage to many communities and councils\u2019 assets and infrastructure. Recovery from these events will require a substantial amount of councils\u2019 resources, and will continue to be the councils\u2019 focus for some years to come. At the committee of the whole House stage, I will be introducing a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to delay the commencement of provisions relating to the requirement for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs mentioned, the bill puts in place a new requirement for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation. Councils who are required to do a representation review this year would be required to consider M\u0101ori representation if they don\u2019t already have M\u0101ori wards. Councils would have to familiarise themselves with this process and put it into practice from April 2023. However, several councils who are required to undertake a representation review this year have also been severely impacted by recent weather events. Several other councils are also under the pump on many other fronts, as councils told me last year when I visited them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI think it is important to reduce the impact of new regulatory requirements on the sector at the current time, especially those councils affected by the extreme weather events who need to focus on recovery. Considering M\u0101ori representation remains important, and we encourage all councils to have these conversations with their communities. However, in the context of the massive impact of the extreme weather events, we need to offer affected councils some regulatory relief and some flexibility to determine what is manageable. Councils who are required to do a representation review this year can still optionally decide to consider M\u0101ori representation. The new requirements for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation will not come into force until the day after the 2025 local election. This is when councils start thinking about their representation process, and the type of representation they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI stand by these changes which will strengthen council governance in the future, but we need to be reasonable when implementing new requirements on councils during an emergency response and recovery phase. Announcing this SOP now provides clarity and certainty for councils on when the new requirement will take effect from, and what it means for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENext, I want to talk about Auckland. Unlike all other councils, who have the right to set their own membership size, Auckland Council has been constrained. In 2010, when Auckland Council was set up, it was limited to only 20 councillors. Auckland\u2019s growth means that each councillor now represents almost 86,000 residents. For reference, that\u2019s about the same population as the New Plymouth district. The bill gives Auckland Council the flexibility to determine its own representation arrangements, just like anywhere else in the country. The bill also establishes a streamlined process for Auckland Council to review its local board boundaries. To be clear, this bill doesn\u2019t change anything overnight for Auckland. What it does do is give Auckland Council more leeway when it comes to considering whether it fairly and effectively represents its local communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to talk about recounts. In 2009, we had some very tight elections, where council seats were decided through a coin toss. Sometimes a coin toss is the best and fairest way to settle a tie. But I think it pays to make sure you\u2019ve got the right result by doing a judicial recount before you toss the coin. Unfortunately, the current legislation says that the coin toss comes before the recount. That seems a bit backwards to me. So in 2019, it meant that people who had been told they were elected, either by a close margin or by a coin toss, were then told they were out of a job after a recount. We\u2019re changing the law to make sure that election outcomes are fair, understandable, and mana-enhancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe bill makes three changes to put the system right, including an automatic judicial recount for tight election results\u2014this aligns local government elections with parliamentary elections\u2014a new ability for candidates to withdraw from the election after a judicial recount if there is still a tie\u2014this is for candidates who don\u2019t want to seal their fate by a coin toss\u2014and, finally, the bill requires councils to wait to have their first meeting until any recounts are complete, the exception being for urgent business that can be conducted without the involvement of any candidate affected by a recount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis is a highly technical piece of legislation, and I would like to thank the Governance and Administration Committee for its work on the bill. I want to acknowledge all the submissions on the bill from local authorities, organisations, and individuals. The committee received 49 written submissions, with the majority supporting the intent of the bill. I would also like to acknowledge the 19 local boards in Auckland who provided feedback. Many submitters provided helpful suggestions that have been incorporated into this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe committee has recommended several simple changes to the bill that help clarify its intended effect. These include clarifying the rules of engagement for councils to follow when they consider M\u0101ori representation. For the record, there is not a requirement for councils to use the special consultative procedure. Councils know their communities best, and they should engage with them however they think is right. The committee also recommended some changes to the timing of the review process, which I hope councils will be pleased with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a representative democracy. Local government is an important part of the democratic system. This bill strengthens our local democracy, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4e1db34ee5a4b74906f13b29b93df3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4e1db34ee5a4b74906f13b29b93df3b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022571a72ff56f7456eb54b9af8377e11ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022571a72ff56f7456eb54b9af8377e11ef\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of National, as the member of Parliament for North Shore, to talk on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill, second reading. I acknowledge the comments made by the Minister of Local Government in regards to this bill; it\u2019s just a shame that I, basically, don\u2019t agree with the large majority of them, and, on that basis, National are opposing this bill. We\u2019re opposing this bill for no surprise, really. When you think about the work of local government across this country, and particularly in the way in which they\u2019ve dealt with the disaster relief that we\u2019ve faced, do you think they\u2019re sitting around at the moment going, \u201CWell, great, we\u2019ve now got a bit of legislation that\u2019s going to introduce more regulation into what is already a hugely busy space for local government.\u201D? It really epitomises a Minister that is very much out of touch with the local government community across this country. While he may have visited 55 of those councils, this bill reflects that he has not done much listening in terms of the key issues that local government face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s walk through a few of those, because I don\u2019t see any of them in this legislation that\u2019s on the Table tonight, and that\u2019s a great shame, because it\u2019s another example of Government legislation that is a wasted opportunity\u2014a wasted opportunity in terms of actually dealing with some of the core issues that Kiwis are facing at the moment. But oh, no, no, let\u2019s put in place some regulation which feels good but which isn\u2019t going to deal with the underlying matter!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with Auckland Council and we\u2019ll work backwards for reasons that\u2014why not? Auckland Council\u2019s got, currently, 20 councillors. I\u2019m not sure how many ratepayers that members on this side of the House\u2014how many emails they\u2019ve had from ratepayers saying, \u201CCan you please, please, please pass legislation to increase the number of councillors in Auckland?\u201D Right? I don\u2019t think\u2014well, I can be clear on that: I have not received one email in regards to requests to increase the number of councillors in Auckland. Actually, to the contrary, I think most ratepayers are happy that we\u2019ve got 20 and that is enough, thank you very much, Minister. But this desire to increase that by nearly an additional third, to take it up to around 29 just so that it\u2019s in line with everywhere else in the country, is idiotic at first principle, and it\u2019s not driven by a desire by those that pay our rates across this country; it is driven by a desire of others to have some form of consistency to solve a problem. It is a solution looking for a problem; it is not necessary or required, and all it is going to do is increase the bureaucratic burden on ratepayers across this country. Nine more councillors\u2014that\u2019s probably going to result in about 100-plus-plus more bureaucrats in the background supporting those roles. The Minister references representation\u2014well, I\u2019m sorry, I think it is fair to say that there is an adequate number of those councillors in place, doing an already challenging role, but this isn\u2019t going to bring much to the party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk a little bit about the other key aspect of this bill, which is in regards to M\u0101ori wards. The key element of this bill is that it actually places the requirement on councils to require councils to decide not to implement M\u0101ori wards, right? It\u2019s a regulatory requirement by central government. So this is, again, a Government where Wellington knows best, Wellington knows what our local communities need and should do, and in their wisdom they have decided that, actually, what we\u2019re going to do\u2014and, you know, they probably thought, \u201CWell, this sounds quite smart.\u201D, but it\u2019s not really. It\u2019s not smart. It\u2019s \u201CLet\u2019s actually make them pass a motion and do a whole lot of consultation around actually considering that we\u2019re not going to implement M\u0101ori wards.\u201D Well, for what purpose is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis side of the House has not opposed the concept of M\u0101ori wards, but what we do oppose is more forcing by central government upon our democratically elected individuals across our councils, who are democratically elected by their ratepayers to undertake the work that they do\u2014and they undertake very good work, in the main, across this country for their communities. But now central government comes in over the top and says, \u201CWell, no, no, we don\u2019t, sort of, trust what you\u2019re doing.\u201D, because that side of the House do not trust local government. They do not trust what those individuals across the country do. They pay lip service to the good work which local government undertake, and the reform and regulation that they are pumping through this House day in, day out\u2014and I won\u2019t talk about three waters, but it is a good example of where they believe that big government and centralisation trumps local communities and local decision-making. The clear contrast between that side of the House and this side of the House is that we trust local government. We will work with local government, not against them. We believe and understand and respect democratically elected individuals in local government. We don\u2019t need regulation like this that comes in and places requirements on our councils around their community table to make decisions around things that they\u2019re not going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt is a shame that, in the contrast of all of the challenges that we face as a country, this is as good as it gets from a Government that is obviously under a lot of\u2014and my colleague Maureen Pugh made a comment, and I agree with you: this is a joke, but it\u2019s a shame that this isn\u2019t a joke. This is real, and this is a Government that believes the best piece of legislation that they can put through to empower our communities, to empower local government, to improve the way in which local government impacts Kiwi households across this country is to implement more regulation to make them ensure that when they\u2019re making a decision around M\u0101ori wards, they need to consider when they\u2019re not going to do it. And that is as good as it gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo, look, we\u2019ve summarised, I think, the two key components of this piece of legislation. I don\u2019t see anything around providing the support to local government, around funding and financing. I don\u2019t see anything in here about infrastructure and dealing with the infrastructure deficits. I don\u2019t see anything in here around actually helping councils around capability and competence. I don\u2019t see anything in here, actually, around workforce. I mean, workforce, I hear, is quite a significant issue in local government, is it not? Well, maybe on this side of the House we just haven\u2019t caught up with what is in vogue, but what I can tell you is what is in this bill is not in vogue. This is not going to make any material impact or benefit on our communities, and that is a great shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe one and only element of this bill\u2014and we said in our minority view, and I think we were quite generous, actually, when I read the statement that says while there are positive elements of this bill; I think we probably could\u2019ve said, well, there is one positive element. It is in regards to the coin toss. You go back and you think, \u201CCrikey, is that the biggest issue that New Zealand is facing, around legislation around how we do a coin toss when an election is tight?\u201D Well, ladies and gentlemen, for those of you at home watching this at 7.44\u2014of course, daylight saving is now in play, so it\u2019s 7.44, for those who haven\u2019t changed their clocks\u2014yeah, this is the biggest factor that this Government believe is a priority in this country for local government, a little bit of legislation on how we do a coin toss when the vote is tight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThat is a disgrace\u2014that is an absolute disgrace, because it shows that this Government are out of ideas. This is as good as it gets, ladies and gentlemen, in regards to legislation to improve this country\u2019s issues, of which there are many. An opportunity is forgone this evening in which tangible and positive change could\u2019ve been put through that would deal with the core issues facing our communities: unblocking the pipe, reducing the regulation, reducing the bureaucracy, getting our local governments focused on core services, and getting them away from the distraction of non-core services. All of those elements\u2014a forgone and missed opportunity. On that basis, we\u2019ll be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6137ec98f234029a50e52d18e539759\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6137ec98f234029a50e52d18e539759\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. Can I first just acknowledge those who submitted on the bill, the other members of the Governance and Administration Committee, and the officials who worked tirelessly on the bill. As the Minister said earlier, I also want to acknowledge the former Minister of Local Government who introduced this bill into the House, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to just correct some of the odd comments from the speaker prior to me, Simon Watts, particularly regarding M\u0101ori wards, and the comments that this bill would somehow force councils to have to reject M\u0101ori wards. It\u2019s quite wrong. What we\u2019re doing is ensuring some consistency with other matters that come up every time there is a representation review at a council. When we introduced legislation in 2021 around M\u0101ori wards at the time, the then Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, said we would be bringing enduring legislation back to the House, and this is what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOur councils, every few years, have to undertake a representation review, and in that they consider other decisions, such as whether they have wards, how many wards they have, the boundaries of those wards, the number of councillors they have, which voting system they use\u2014whether they use first past the post or STV. They have to consider those matters every time as part of their representation review, and that includes consultation with their communities, so it\u2019s entirely consistent for us to be adding into our legislation that M\u0101ori wards also need to be considered. That is all this bill is doing. I note that around half or so of the councils that had the opportunity prior to the last local election chose to add M\u0101ori wards to their councils. We\u2019ve have had very good feedback on how that is running. On one of the councils in my electorate of Nelson, we have an excellent M\u0101ori ward councillor, Kahu Paki Paki, who\u2019s doing an excellent job, and I want to mihi to him tonight for the work that he is doing in our community to ensure that, for the first time, we actually have a M\u0101ori councillor on our council representing an important part of our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs previous speakers have also mentioned, there are other things that this bill does, such as increasing the number of potential councillors at Auckland Council, to be, again, consistent with other councils that can also have up to 29 councillors. So from a consistency point of view, it doesn\u2019t make sense for a small council to be able to have up to 29, and then for a large council like Auckland, with its larger population base, not to have the same opportunity to have that level of representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo before I finish, I do just want to acknowledge my good friend Tasman Mayor Tim King in the gallery today. And just to acknowledge that, yes, Madam Speaker, I do trust my councils and mayors like Tim King. This Government backs the local government; it\u2019s why we\u2019ve been putting so much energy into ensuring they have the right systems in place to deliver for our communities. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00229826a65e39ce46d4a296455da6d6ac6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229826a65e39ce46d4a296455da6d6ac6b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I love the \u201Cbutter wouldn\u2019t melt in her mouth\u201D irony of the previous speaker Rachel Boyack, who said this Government backs local government, when they\u2019re passing legislation after legislation, taking roles away from local government and centralising it against their will such as in the Water Services Act, and under the Resource Management Act they\u2019ll be setting up these new agencies. Unfortunately, words might be fine; it\u2019s what you do that actually matters. And this Government unfortunately has made a track record of great theatrics, great talking, great announcements, great ambitions, and extremely poor follow-through and confusion on what they\u2019re actually doing on the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard from the Prime Minister that this is a Government that\u2019s going to focus on the bread and butter. We hear the \u201Cbread and butter\u201D on many occasions. They\u2019re going to focus on bread and butter and drop distractions and get to priorities. And then, lo and behold, we get a chance to speak on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill, second reading, which is all about the real important issues of local government, which is ensuring that people do not get a chance to have a referendum on whether they should introduce M\u0101ori wards into their electorate, which is fundamentally what this is about. It strikes me as a strange priority and indicative of a Government that has got muddled and confused about what is important to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhen they look at local government generally in New Zealand\u2014and we all are under the bailiwick of some council somewhere\u2014I think most New Zealanders look and see real pressure on local governments. They see pressure to deliver good quality services, and to actually make sure\u2014well, I get emails from constituents today, for people in the Epsom electorate, complaining about the fact that nobody ever sweeps the leaves out of the gutters any more and that contributes to flooding. It is all the basic stuff about local government. There\u2019s a lot of pressure\u2014a lot of pressure about getting the roads open and moving and not having cones everywhere. A lot of pressure around water services, getting the sewerage stuff\u2014all the basics of local government\u2014and a huge amount of work that needs to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd what is this Government focused on? It\u2019s only ever focused on the electoral sort of stuff. So what did they do? I remember it was only a couple of years ago that they rammed through, under urgency, urgent legislation to change the way that local government operated in terms of M\u0101ori wards. And just a reprise on that, because this legislation confirms all that and sets it in stone for the short time that this Government will remain in office, at least\u2014where in the past if a local council wanted to introduce M\u0101ori wards into the council, they had to ask the people. When they did, in most cases\u2014overwhelmingly\u2014when they asked that question, people said, \u201CNo, we don\u2019t want it.\u201D Why don\u2019t they want it? Well, there\u2019d be a host of reasons why they didn\u2019t want it. But primarily I think most people just don\u2019t want to divide New Zealanders into different groups; we all regard ourselves as equal New Zealanders and we don\u2019t want to focus on difference so much as what unites us. There\u2019ll be a whole host of reasons why people opposed it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut when they did, that wasn\u2019t good enough for this Government. So the people, when they were asked, said no, and so the Government said, \u201CWell, we\u2019re not going to ask you any more and we\u2019ll just get local councils to just introduce these wards and not ask the people.\u201D So that\u2019s what happened last year. Lo and behold, a whole lot of councils did introduce these wards and we\u2019ve just heard from the previous speaker saying that it\u2019s been a great outcome. I haven\u2019t seen great evidence of that. But, you know, time will tell. Time will tell whether, as a country, we\u2019re better off for it or not. But we think, on this side of the House, that people should have a say on these matters. And the logical thing, if you\u2019re going to change the way that we organise our electoral arrangements, is you should ask the people, not just do it on the basis of a bare majority under a Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhy do we worry about these things? We\u2019ve got good reason to worry about it, because this is also the Government that has fundamentally changed the way that local democracy works in New Zealand by passing the Canterbury regional council bill, which moved away from two basic democratic principles: one, equal voting rights for all New Zealanders\u2014and I hear sort of moans and groans from the other side as if this doesn\u2019t matter. Equal voting rights for all New Zealanders\u2014a pretty important basic constitutional principle that this Government moved away from in the Canterbury bill. Because what happens in Canterbury under that legislation is that everybody gets a vote\u2014one person, one vote\u2014for 14 councillors, and then after that, everybody having had a vote, including M\u0101ori, Ng\u0101i Tahu get to appoint two more. So it is unequal voting rights depending on ethnicity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut the second principle that it offended against was the idea that councillors should be accountable to the electorate. The one thing that keeps Kiri Allan on the straight and narrow as an MP is she knows that if she does a good job she will remain in office. If she does a bad job, people will throw her out. That\u2019s the same principle that applies to all of us: we face the ballot box and if we\u2019re no good, we get chucked out. Governments have come and gone over the years. But under the Canterbury legislation, the Ng\u0101i Tahu appointments can never be thrown out, because they\u2019re appointments as of right. So two fundamental constitutional principles thrown out the door by this Government on a bare majority with no consultation with the people and with no consultation across the House. So we\u2019re pretty concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo when it comes to the approach that the Government has taken in terms of local government democracy, we\u2019re not impressed one iota and we certainly won\u2019t be supporting this bill, which is not as heinous as the Canterbury regional council bill, but it is still one that offends that basic principle. When we\u2019re going to make changes at how we organise our electoral arrangements at local government, we should ask the people through a referendum, and this bill doesn\u2019t allow for that. In fact, it moves away from that. It does a few other minor things which may be of interest to some people, probably not to most people. But on that score I think it\u2019s more a missed opportunity bill than a constructive bill, given all the challenges that we face at local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that we won\u2019t be supporting and we don\u2019t support, and we don\u2019t hope that it passes. We call upon the Government to reconsider and maybe at the last moment change their mind and go back to a principle where if a local council decides it wants to change and set up M\u0101ori wards, which they\u2019re perfectly entitled to do, they should first ask the people and, if the people want it, then it will go ahead. If they don\u2019t want it, then it won\u2019t go ahead. That\u2019s a fairly simple thing, it\u2019s not hard to understand, and it\u2019s where we were for most of our history and where we should return to. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u002273dd4339d5874b15ae199d82deb494e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273dd4339d5874b15ae199d82deb494e6\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, echo the words of my colleague and thank our Governance and Administration Committee for a really good time going through this bill. We thank all the submitters, especially all of the city councils who came in and made their views heard during the select committee process. We did a bit of a split between me and my colleague Rachel Boyack in terms of\u2014I\u2019m just going to take the Auckland part in my speech today and explain some of the intricacies there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ENow, Auckland is New Zealand\u2019s largest city. It is now up to 33 percent of the population in New Zealand. Right now, currently in Auckland, one councillor has to represent 86,000 constituents or residents. Let me repeat that again: one councillor has to represent 86,000 constituents, whereas members in the House probably represent around 60,000, I think is how the Electoral Commission divides up electorates in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI know, for instance, in my home area of East Auckland, we have one councillor in the Howick ward that actually cuts across three different electorates. Their job is to liaise with the MPs in Pakuranga, the MPs in Botany, and the MPs in Takanini as well. Therefore, that also echoes the local board boundaries as well. That job is very immense, and it doesn\u2019t naturally actually fall into communities of interest. You can imagine, just by the three electorates I\u2019ve just described to you, whether it\u2019s from Pakuranga\u2014we\u2019ve got the Howick community there. In Takanini, and even in Flat Bush and Botany, it is a very diverse Asian community, whereas in Howick and Pakuranga it\u2019s a long-settled predominantly European community, and then you\u2019ve got in Takanini a really large Indian but also Pacific community as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo having a ward councillor that has to cross that whole entire boundary is actually a really demanding job. What this bill will actually do is streamline the process to review how these boundaries are set in the local boards and also in the wards within Auckland Council as well, to be able to increase the numbers of councillors to the Auckland Council according to the growth rate of our population and the demands of our population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EA fact that has been often talked about in this House is that from 3 million to 4 million, it took this nation 30 years to get there, in terms of population growth. But from 4 million to 5 million\u2014so the last million of growth that we\u2019ve had in our population\u2014only took us 16 years, which is about half the time it took for the previous 1 million of population growth. So with a changing demographic in New Zealand, with a changing landscape of Auckland, we need to have a political and a local democracy that actually reflects the way that that city is now shaping up to be and changing. So, therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00227edeb9a27c0145bf920050b0f6f358c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227edeb9a27c0145bf920050b0f6f358c7\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to take a short call on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. The Greens are not represented on the Governance and Administration Committee, so we weren\u2019t involved in the hearings on the bill, but we strongly support the bill and its purpose to improve the processes by which individuals and communities are represented through, and can participate in, local government elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill doesn\u2019t go nearly far enough. The Greens would like to see much more sweeping electoral reform to ensure that 16- and 17-year-olds have the vote in local authority elections so they can help chart their future and so that we improve representation in councils across the country through using a proportional voting system, in the same way that this Parliament has become much more representative and much more diverse through MMP. The Greens think that STV should be enabled at local authorities throughout the country. That\u2019s why there are two Supplementary Order Papers in the name of Golriz Ghahraman which the House will consider in the committee stages, to put in place voting for 16- and 17-year-olds, and to ensure that the electoral system does cover that single transferable vote system so that voting is proportional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill is much more modest in its ambitions in terms of providing a revised process for councils to decide their representation arrangements and to make sure that they consider M\u0101ori representation as a fundamental step in that process, and to also simplify the process that unitary councils, such as Auckland Council, can go through to adjust local board boundaries, as well as the coin-toss issue and making a fairer decision when an election result is tied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut I really must take issue with National\u2019s comments on this bill. They are really forgetting history. We heard from Mr Goldsmith that it offends the fundamental principles of democracy. When he started talking about the Canterbury regional council legislation\u2014it was, of course, the National Government which completely removed the ability of Canterbury electors to vote for a regional council for a whole nine years. It totally threw out the ability to use the ballot box. So it is very rich for the National Party to be opposing this bill. It simply ensures that when councils are considering M\u0101ori representation, there is not that extra barrier that they have at the moment of having to have a poll of electors. If councils want to establish an additional general ward, there is no requirement that there is a poll of electors. So why would we have a differential rule in relation to the establishment of M\u0101ori wards? So this bill makes it fairer by removing that requirement for a referendum. I hope that Mr Goldsmith looks at National\u2019s initiatives in the local electoral law\u2014getting rid of a whole regional council for nine years is getting rid of the fundamental principles of democracy. This bill is actually seeking to improve them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn terms of what happens in Auckland, as the previous speaker, Naisi Chen, noted, there is the ability to increase the number of councillors to up to 29 councillors to ensure better representation in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, and the ability, through the bill, for the council to amend the boundaries of local boards without having to go through that multi-step process with the Local Government Commission in terms of doing a whole restructuring of local government\u2014the process for amending board boundaries at the moment is far too complicated. I really acknowledge the values of the Auckland boards. In virtually every bill concerning the Resource Management Act, the local boards in Auckland have individually provided submissions to the Environment Committee, for example, and brought the perspectives about their local area into focus. So it\u2019s a very good initiative to ensure that their boundaries better fit their communities of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne concern the Green Party has about the proposals around Auckland is that the regulatory impact statement says that the Remuneration Authority has advised that it\u2019s unlikely that they will increase the size of the governance pool that council uses to fund councillor salaries, which, effectively, means that if Auckland Council decides to increase the number of councillors, the salaries will reduce because they\u2019ll be having to spread the same pool over more people. That problem isn\u2019t unique to Auckland, but to ensure that we have transparent local government and we avoid the risk of corruption, we need adequate salaries for councillors to encourage a wide variety of people to stand so that it\u2019s not just those who can afford it and so that there\u2019s no risk of people taking bribes, essentially, because their income is very low. So that issue of the governance pool is something I think that does need to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party strongly supports the bill and think that the National Party doth protest rather too much and that it has obstructed M\u0101ori wards virtually every step of the way. That makes no sense at all because we want local government to be representative of everyone in Aotearoa, and that ensures increasing the amount of M\u0101ori representation at councils around the motu. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022afc196ef4e45481c9721db960ec551db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afc196ef4e45481c9721db960ec551db\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It will be no surprise to people watching at home or listening to Parliament that ACT will not support this bill. But I just want to lay out some of our concerns. Firstly, this bill was introduced by a Minister who is no longer in the portfolio and, in fact, became so unpopular for her co-governance agenda that she appears to have been exiled to a small country in northern Europe. It\u2019s still winter there\u2014it\u2019s still winter there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAs the Minister, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, stated, \u201CLike any tool, this bill needs much more than a tune-up.\u201D The Minister has stated he will introduce a Supplementary Order Paper to delay the time for commencement of this bill, and you\u2019d have to ask why it was so urgent and so imperative that the allowance for councils to introduce M\u0101ori wards without consulting their communities prior to the last general election was so urgent\u2014according to the former Minister of Local Government, Nanaia Mahuta\u2014that it must happen straight away. And yet this legislation is going to be delayed out for a year or more\u2014which is quite convenient, because it will take the issue off the agenda, as far as this Government believes, during an election year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut the reason that the Minister Kieran McAnulty gave for delay is that he couldn\u2019t possibly impose such a bill\u2014all of the administration, all of the regulatory shenanigans and paperwork\u2014on local government affected by the severe weather in the first few months of this year. It\u2019s the most remarkable admission. Because imagine that the Minister didn\u2019t want to impose electoral regulatory red tape on councils but he\u2019s more than happy to continue with the three waters reform that is incredibly disruptive to local government, particularly those who are trying to repair their assets damaged by cyclones and floods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister mentioned that this bill is highly technical. Well, I\u2019ve got to tell the Minister this is a teeny-weeny baby little bill compared to some of the other bills this Government\u2019s dropped on this House, such as the 800-plus Resource Management Act or the 700-odd page three waters legislation currently before the Finance and Expenditure Committee. This is a teeny, teeny-weeny bill. It doesn\u2019t make it any better. Rather than highly technical, I think the ACT Party would categorise this bill as slightly sneaky, and I want to describe why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat are the problems with this bill? Well, instead of addressing the problems that local government has brought to the attention of select committees of this House that three waters reform are going to cause them\u2014having their assets stripped of them and centralised in four new entities, having all of the staff who they rely on planning, engineering, all of those community engagement staff taken off them, taken off them, patched over, put into a water service entity\u2014what they\u2019ve asked for is to be allowed to continue managing their water assets and also managing the effects of land use in stormwater in a coherent and integrated way. That is at odds with what this Government\u2019s local government agenda is seeking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ELocal councils have also come to select committee\u2014the Environment Committee\u2014more recently and asked that the resource management reforms be amended or dropped because they\u2019re going to take local decision-making by elected members on planning and land use away from councils and hand it over to an unelected centralised body called a regional planning committee, that local people and their elected representatives will have no control over. And, of course, the future of local government review: that interim report suggests that councils focusing on wellbeing and co-governance should be the objective of local government in the future. That is certainly not what the select committees hearing about the three waters resource management reforms have heard. And when we look at the submissions on this piece of legislation, it\u2019s quite clear that there were very, very few submitters. I\u2019m assuming if I was to ask the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, Mr Ian McKelvie, why that was, I would assume that\u2019s because of the extremely limited time submitters were given to make submissions on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIn fact, my parliamentary colleague Ian McKelvie was so disappointed at the time with the process that he was offered, he stated on the first reading\u2014and I just want to acknowledge this. I mean, if he can honestly say he was looking forward to this bill coming to select committee because they could make some constructive changes, he would, but he can\u2019t because he\u2019s never seen the select committees change anything that a Minister has sent us yet. And apparently the member\u2019s been here a little while. Well, look, I just want to offer this perspective. I\u2019ve had the benefit of working alongside Ian McKelvie in the Governance and Administration Committee on another bill dealing with severe weather recently, and I know he tried hard\u2014I know he tried hard. But what we have here today, this bill presented here at second reading, does little to assuage the fears of submitters. As one of them put it, and I\u2019m going to read it out because it\u2019s a very short submission, from a Karen Manson: \u201CI oppose this bill.\u201D According to Karen, the purpose of the bill appeared to \u201Ccontinue with Labour\u2019s hidden agenda of co-governance a divisive agenda allocating different rights to different groups in New Zealand by virtue of their ethnicity\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223617c253599e47ecb998eb1611777380\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s sad. What a sad excuse for an argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d628583a6043403e8fe383d69c893a4a\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cwith vague reference to Treaty principles \u2026 that are not written down anywhere in this Bill.\u201D Dr Duncan Webb, that\u2019s from a submitter who can see clearly through the agenda of Labour and the former Minister who brought this bill to the House. Labour clearly are going to press on with their co-governance agenda; it\u2019s right here in this bill. Submitters aren\u2019t silly, New Zealanders aren\u2019t silly; they saw right through this attempt, Dr Duncan Webb. Then there\u2019s the submission, actually, from a community group, the Newmarket and Parnell Business Associations, which submitted that what they\u2019d like to do is to be able to get more alignment between their local boards and the areas that they operate in. And that seems perfectly reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo I just want to come to some comments that another parliamentary colleague\u2014Naisi Chen\u2014made about representation. Well, look, Auckland has around 1.65 million people, 20 councillors on the full council. According to Naisi Chen\u2019s calculation, that means we\u2019ve only got one councillor for every 82,000 people in Auckland. But what that member omitted to point out was we also have 21 local boards with 149 local board members. That adds up to 169 representatives, which means for Auckland\u2019s population that gives us a representation of just under one elected member per 10,000 people. That sounds pretty reasonable. For that reason, there\u2019s no need to increase the level of representation. What it would be helpful to do for councils for local government, instead of messing around with co-governance and trying to sneak in more of that Government\u2019s divisive agenda through the back door and under urgency and all the different ways this Government\u2019s found to do it, what ACT would propose is, in fact, you give local government more power, more control over how they use their assets, how their communities develop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EImagine, instead of central government taking all of the revenue that it collects from residential building, the GST on residential building, all of those invoices which add up to over $2 billion a year\u2014instead of taking it all for itself, imagine if central government shared half the revenue from all of that GST with local government. Auckland Council, for example, would get $400 million a year to build infrastructure, develop community services and community assets and community facilities. That\u2019s what ACT would do. If the Government really cared about increasing representation and getting more people enthusiastic about their local government, why not give them more power and control? Why not devolve to local elected members the ability to set their social and their economic direction for their community and to choose their own representation arrangements, not have them forced down their throat by this Labour Government. ACT will oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022 data-id=\u002289d296eddbc2440a8bb9ab79b22edbe2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289d296eddbc2440a8bb9ab79b22edbe2\u0022\u003ESORAYA PEKE-MASON (Labour): \u003C/span\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou ng\u0101 iwi o te motu, e mihi ana ki a koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker. Greetings to the people of the nation. I acknowledge you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EGood evening, everyone. I stand to speak on the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. Firstly, I stand in awe of the former local government Minister Nanaia Mahuta for her courage, for her perseverance, her boldness, and her humility and grace she has shown as a former Minister of Local Government, and in particular over the last recent years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Wards: as a former district councillor\u2014over 12 years\u2014what I can say is I wholeheartedly support this bill. M\u0101ori representation is a change I have longed for, not knowing I would be here today to speak to it myself. I reflect\u2014I reflect, back in the days, what a lonely place local government would be if you were M\u0101ori. Even more shameful was having to endure six-yearly representation reviews, and M\u0101ori ward considerations could be vetoed just like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EBut you know what? My council, the Rangit\u012Bkei District Council, one of the most conservative at the time, broke the mould of conservatism and supported M\u0101ori wards, whilst, at the same time, an opposition group would be sitting in the gallery waiting to pounce with their polls. Guess what! Iwi at the time did not want them, to the disappointment of that opposing group. The Government took a first step to change this in 2021, amending the polls provisions to help councils to get ready for 2022 elections, removing discrimination. Hallelujah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EThis bill sets out an enduring process\u2014an enduring process for councils to consider M\u0101ori representation through a fit for purpose process. It gives the mana motuhake to the council. Whilst the new requirements will not come into force till 2025, it\u2019s OK\u2014it\u2019s OK. We must consider those councils severely impacted by recent weather events along with others. Our Minister has heard the calling: good things take time. I wish to commend him, our Hon Minister McAnulty, for taking the time to visit 55 rural provincial councils last year and giving consideration to their feedback. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EAuckland Council: Auckland Council has been hamstrung with a limitation of 20 councillors. It has grown and will continue\u2014it will continue. Each councillor representing 86,000 residents\u2014it doesn\u2019t cut it. In my ward days, I thought that 1,500 was too much and onerous. Auckland needs to determine its own representation arrangements. Who knows better than themselves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EThe recount and coin tosses: Well, I remember a time when the deputy mayor was appointed by the councillors. This particular year, there were two nominations. There was a tie. The mayor pulls out his coin and says, \u201CHeads or tails?\u201D and I thought, \u201CWhat?\u201D\u2014that it was a joke. No, it wasn\u2019t a joke. A very strange action in such an official capacity, mandated by the highest level of legislation: our Parliament. In this instance, it makes absolute sense to have a judicial recount before, at least, a toss of a coin. That is why I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfafe6a9ca744aa69f688c3352c08a75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfafe6a9ca744aa69f688c3352c08a75\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on the Hon David Bennett for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022402459d553064bd9901252d3fa3833d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022402459d553064bd9901252d3fa3833d5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. In the Waikato, the event of M\u0101ori representation on council has been probably quite late compared with what you probably expect in an area that is so dominated by Tainui in many ways, and it has actually proven to be quite an effective role that has been taken by M\u0101ori on boards and on councils. For many people that may have had a lot of apprehension prior to that, it has been proven that there was no need for such apprehension. In fact, some of the M\u0101ori members of our councils show a lot more economic nous than some of the greener members of our councils that take quite a different philosophy on growth. The long-term ambitions of our M\u0101ori communities is something that councils, as the Government, need to take as well\u2014however, we don\u2019t need to dictate that to councils, and that\u2019s what this bill does. Councils are quite willing to get to that point themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe actual point we should be going for is that we don\u2019t actually need to dictate anything. A true partnership or relationship under the Treaty wouldn\u2019t need dictation from this House. It would evolve, and it will evolve to that point in our lifetime\u2014I\u2019m pretty sure of that. We don\u2019t need legislation like this to actually get to that point. That\u2019s the fundamental issue I guess many of us have. You know, we don\u2019t actually have any opposition to M\u0101ori council positions; we actually see that they\u2019re quite valuable and quite effective in many cases, like in our local communities. However, we don\u2019t need that community to be dictated to by this House on how it should determine its representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EYou know, in the Waikato, it may be that more than two seats might be actually appropriate, but in the end, that\u2019s up to the council, the community, to decide; it\u2019s not up for this House to decide. I can see the day when in the Waikato we won\u2019t need any seats\u2014and that day isn\u2019t far away\u2014because the representation is organic. We\u2019re getting to a stage now where councils are getting into that long-term vision. You have to look at the Waikato Regional Council\u2014we were there yesterday. What you see there about their long-term vision around water and other issues is very consistent with M\u0101ori views of the world and where we want to go, and it\u2019s consistent with the wider community\u2019s views of the world and where we want to go. I don\u2019t think that is an inconsistency that this Parliament needs to then, you know, dictate how that will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn the end, the end goal of local government should be to represent and do the best for their community and to work with central government\u2014and central government\u2019s role is to work with local government as well. To achieve that does not require dictation from here. What it requires is an understanding of the long-term goals that we all want to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo we oppose this bill, but we see value in much M\u0101ori representation in our area, for example. But it\u2019s the necessary representation that has come through things like Treaty settlements and that; it doesn\u2019t need to be dictated through legislation. It\u2019s been organic, it has happened, and the next stage of that will actually be to take that away. The next stage of organic growth will be to remove that and actually have councils that have long-term visions that represent everybody in their community. That is the long-term view that Government and council should have. It\u2019s probably something that\u2019s beyond this bill, but, you know, the reality is we take a very three-year cycle, or, as the last speaker said, a six-year cycle, she felt she was under\u2014and that is part of the problem. You know, we need to take a longer-term vision in this House and in local government to achieve the goals the communities want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002263d961a9c2f046eb9f736d363794357c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263d961a9c2f046eb9f736d363794357c\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to speak on this bill this evening because, for someone who has had a background in local government for a number of years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb464bc00774d8b800a5e76090cac5c\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Deputy mayor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e78386e20ab4d6a96fc685bbdc99b86\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Deputy mayor, previously, yes. I know that local government is vital for our community, and what this piece of legislation does\u2014as much as the Opposition would like to belittle it\u2014is empower local decision-makers to continue to provide democracy for their local communities. Because this is a bill that gives local councils choice. Much has been said about the situation for Auckland, and if we look at Auckland, current legislation caps the number of councillors for Auckland Council at 20. That means if that council wishes to engage in a conversation around their council table about whether or not it should or could introduce M\u0101ori representation in the form of M\u0101ori wards, it currently is prevented or limited from doing so. This legislative change will align Auckland Council with the same approach that other councils have around New Zealand. If they choose to have 20 elected members, including the mayor, that is a matter for them. The choice is theirs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat I like about this piece of legislation is that it would be mandatory for councils to consider how M\u0101ori would be included in local decision-making and local elections. When I reflect on the fact that in Palmerston North we had at the last local body election the introduction of a M\u0101ori ward that delivered us two representatives for Rangit\u0101ne: Councillor Roly Fitzgerald and the new deputy mayor, Debi Marshall-Lobb\u2014they have added so much value to that decision-making process already. It is a wonderful thing that Palmerston North and its community has been able to benefit from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve had the opportunity to be a six-time candidate in local body elections, and so I would just hate to think that a process of flipping a coin to determine whether someone is successful or not, and then actually going through a judicial recount and finding out, actually, the original decision was inaccurate\u2014that is just a complete waste of time, let alone the mental anguish that you would put both of those individuals in that particular position through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a fantastic piece of legislation. It is about delivering for local democracy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00225c547672fbad41e08bb88a8f8c06b387\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c547672fbad41e08bb88a8f8c06b387\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to take a brief call on this bill, the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. As a member of the Governance and Administration Committee, with an excellent chair\u2014who I see opposite\u2014and other members in the House, it was an honour to shepherd this bill through. I\u2019d like to thank all of the submitters. We had around 40 submitters who made very thoughtful submissions on this bill. We had a number of councils who submitted. We always appreciate that process, and us and the officials genuinely listen to the submitters as they make their submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to pick up on something the previous speaker just mentioned around the coin toss. I\u2019m very pleased that we have tidied up this area because members may not know that the example that the member cited happened in Whakat\u0101ne\u20142019 elections\u2014where there were two candidates who, basically, landed on the same amount of votes. There was a coin toss undertaken, and one of those went into council\u2014they actually got sworn in to council; unfortunately, they were actually on council. Then there was a judicial recount and they found out that it was wrong and they had to get taken off council\u2014I mean, that\u2019s just outrageous; it really is on many, many levels. So it\u2019s certainly very good that we\u2019ve tidied that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing that the Opposition parties are not supporting this bill. At the Hamilton City Council\u2014I\u2019m the member for Hamilton East\u2014we have two M\u0101ori councillors on the M\u0101ori wards. We voted for that, as a city, and brought them in and it\u2019s working very well. The previous member said that it\u2019ll happen organically, and it may do, but, look, there is no harm in giving the opportunity, which is, basically, what we\u2019re doing, for councils to be proactive in this space. It is an excellent piece of legislation. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002209ddd9ed98474a4390f14fb9ba13a749\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209ddd9ed98474a4390f14fb9ba13a749\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I learnt something from Simon Watts when he spoke earlier, and that\u2019s to point out to the House that I come from Rangit\u012Bkei, in case they didn\u2019t know. He made that point, I thought I\u2019d just remind you. Interestingly, the Rangit\u012Bkei electorate has bits, parts, or part of, seven different councils, and so consequently we have quite a few differences of opinion amongst those councils, and some very different ways of doing things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EOne of the objectives of this piece of legislation, and I\u2019ll read it out, is: \u201CThe broad single policy and purpose of this bill is to improve processes by which individuals and communities are represented through, and can participate in, local government elections.\u201D And we\u2019ve got, frankly, a pretty dismal record of getting people to participate in local government elections. There are a number of reasons for that. One, in my view, has been the very divisive nature in which M\u0101ori wards have been established, or not established, since 2002. So, in other words, the process has always been flawed, and I guess this Government\u2019s had a bit of a crack at tidying that up. I don\u2019t know whether they have tidied it up, but we do have at least some consistency around the introduction of M\u0101ori wards now, because running a referendum to establish a M\u0101ori ward was complete nonsense when you think about it. That was brought in, of course, by the 2002 Act, which was instigated by a Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think the issue of M\u0101ori representation has been well canvassed in the House tonight, and the issue of how those are established and the rules around them are also well discussed in the House tonight. So I won\u2019t go into that any further other than to say I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve got on top of this issue yet, and I think there\u2019s some work to do on it. I do support Tangi Utikere and his comments about the Palmerston North City Council, because having observed that in action over many years, I\u2019d have to say it\u2019s in the best state I\u2019ve seen it in, perhaps, forever, as a result of where they\u2019ve got to with this last election. And they do have an outstanding deputy mayor who was appointed through this system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EA bit has been said about the Auckland Council tonight, and the truth of the matter is that unless alterations were made to this piece of legislation, the Auckland Council wasn\u2019t on the same footing as every other council when it came to appointing M\u0101ori wards, for instance. But also their number of councillors didn\u2019t enable them to do what other councils can do in that respect. We were assured, actually, during the select committee stage process, by the Auckland Council that it was highly unlikely they\u2019d get to 29 councillors. I hope it is, because imagine a council meeting starting on a Monday and getting through to about Friday afternoon and they haven\u2019t all spoken. Wouldn\u2019t be much good to Auckland I don\u2019t think. I think that was the point made by one or two of the earlier speakers. So there is a risk that you end up with an Auckland Council of 29 councillors and, frankly, it would be very hard to manage, I would have thought. But, none the less, I think the reasons behind the Auckland Council\u2014other than the fact it takes it out too far\u2014were relatively logical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe issue of recounts is quite an interesting one. Again, tonight, many people have talked about the fact that the toss of a coin decides who ends up on a council and who doesn\u2019t. I think there was some logic in trying to ameliorate that situation, because it certainly isn\u2019t practical and wasn\u2019t a constructive way or a tidy way of getting through what could be a difficult situation in the event of a tie. Of course, those ties, under the old legislation, went to a toss of the coin, and then you could get a recount if you needed to, if you wished to, or if you were going to pay for it, actually. That\u2019s no way to do something. So this is a better method of doing it than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI guess I\u2019ll just touch quickly on the flexible electronic nominations, which I think is also a pretty sensible move, particularly in rural parts of New Zealand, because it\u2019s not always so easy to get into the council to do what you need to do. One of my mayors, in fact, did attempt to put an electronic nomination in, only to be told it\u2019s not legal. So it just shows that there were some grey areas in that piece of the legislation which, frankly, are pretty untidy. So that\u2019s been tidied up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe National Party can\u2019t support this piece of legislation. I think the reason we can\u2019t support it, aside from the issues raised by both Paul Goldsmith and Simon Watts earlier on, is the fact that local government in New Zealand has some massively challenging problems; these weren\u2019t among them. I think the real problems that we\u2019re going to have to assist Local Government New Zealand in addressing are issues around funding, the infrastructure deficit that we face in some parts of New Zealand\u2014not all of them\u2014and that relates to the history of how those councils are being run. So you get vast differences in the way councils are run in different parts of New Zealand. In fact, if you looked, as I said earlier, at the Rangit\u012Bkei, I have seven different mayors in one form or another\u2014by one form or another, I mean either large bits or little bits, all of those council areas\u2014and vastly different performance around their three waters infrastructure, for example, where some of them are completely established and in good order, some are not. So that\u2019s one of the big challenges local government faces, and this bill does nothing to address that sort of a challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, the other challenge that local government faces, and in fact we might well face it in central government too, in the future, is the lethargy\u2014there\u2019s probably a better word for it than that\u2014of the voting population. The fact that we have several different methods of voting, different systems of counting the votes is very confusing. So whether it\u2019s single transferable voting, or first past the post, or MMP, or whatever else we might want to invent, it\u2019s very confusing for the average punter when they go to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that needs to be tied up with respect to voting is\u2014I think if people know they\u2019ve got to go to a polling booth, they\u2019re going to vote. Anyone who\u2019s spent time, like most politicians have, delivering mail around mailboxes in town will know about a third of those mailboxes never get opened, and if they do, they\u2019re set on fire, or the stuff in them\u2019s burnt. So, frankly, about two-thirds of people get their ballot, the other third don\u2019t, and that\u2019ll be a fact. And actually there\u2019s quite a chance that the third that don\u2019t, a third of them are nicked as well and then filled in by someone else. So the whole system is fraught\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a80abba0f04d7698d7f6c6f9594a93\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t happen in New Plymouth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d11256821bd422580c764e1610286b9\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t happen in New Plymouth; it absolutely, definitely wouldn\u2019t. But the whole system is fraught. I think that these are issues that we should be addressing in this Parliament around local government; not so much some of the issues that are addressed in the course of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWhen you think of the time we spent in the Governance and Administration Committee on this bill, which fiddles around the edges of some things, and then think of the time we spent on the bill that\u2019s about to come back to the House on Thursday\u2014which is immensely important to a large part of New Zealand\u2014we spent something like 24 hours on it, and we\u2019re rushing it back through the House. So this thing has taken about a month or two months to get through the select committee stage and does very little. So you have to wonder whether we\u2019ve got our priorities right in a lot of these areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAs I said, the National Party can\u2019t support this bill for reasons that at least two of my previous speakers have talked about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221324d9a6c38e476a89644c7beee882ce\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Cross the floor. Cross the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b32a9987eb24a699fc9287d415d2121\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t\u2014to be fair, I can\u2019t walk that far. You\u2019ll get to that stage too. For various reasons that the two previous speakers have spoken about, we can\u2019t support this bill, and, obviously, I support that or I wouldn\u2019t be standing here speaking. Bad luck. But I do think that that there\u2019s some serious challenges in local government, and as a Parliament they\u2019re going to have to be addressed in the next year or so, and if they\u2019re not, then I think we\u2019re going to see the malaise around local government and the participation of our communities in it decrease as we go along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s my little contribution to this bill, and, finally, I\u2019ll just thank the Governance and Administration Committee and all those people who helped us to get the bill to this point, and I wish for good luck. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022555f216181224df79612b635c8249687\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022555f216181224df79612b635c8249687\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I do agree on one point of the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, and that is that there is a lot of work to be done in local government to get it right, and I\u2019m glad that we are doing things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI reflect back, about a decade ago, and I never imagined that I\u2019d be standing in this place speaking on legislation that impacts local government in the way it does, particularly around M\u0101ori wards. Because a decade ago, I was deeply involved in New Plymouth, in terms of our challenge and our push to ensure inclusion, to ensure that we had M\u0101ori wards\u2014and we won and we succeeded and we fought. Then we lost and it was taken away. And then we won and we fought, and, thankfully, this Government\u2014and I was very proud, in 2021, to sit in the council chamber in New Plymouth as the Hon Nanaia Mahuta announced the work that was being done around M\u0101ori wards, that it was going to be something that was far easier and far more inclusive, in terms of the equality which fitted in other systems when it came to representation on our councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m sad that we\u2019re not getting full support this evening across the floor, in terms of this Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill. I hope that we can draw more people in\u2014people like Ian McKelvie who could maybe hobble across the floor with his Zimmer frame or whatever he has, what he needs. I\u2019m sure he could do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to finish because we\u2019ve talked and, I guess, traversed most of this this evening, so I don\u2019t need to say a lot. But I have in my hot little hand\u2014I raided my wallet\u2014a $1 New Zealand coin. It does seem really unfair that, at the toss of this coin, which I\u2019m going to demonstrate now and hopefully not muck up, that would signal a decision that would be made for an elected member, whereas, actually, if we went back and did the count properly, we might have got it right, as mentioned earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo I won\u2019t bore the House with any more amazing stories or analogies, because this is good legislation, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c026d6304fe845ccbc7dacd8e77ecf26\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Local Government Electoral Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 76\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 64; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000697\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000698\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a636185c7e940f9a348275fdd815148\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb8cb45da9774beca03de8a476649fa9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000701\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 9 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002256ed9da80fef48e8b208ee4e81bf4b55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256ed9da80fef48e8b208ee4e81bf4b55\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on this legislation, the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. I just acknowledge that the National Party supports this legislation, which is designed to improve outcomes for people participating in Family Court proceedings\u2014particularly children\u2014by creating the new role of the Family Court Associate, who will be empowered to take on some of the Family Court judges\u2019 workload in order to try and reduce delays. So this particular role, as a recognised judicial officer, will have the additional powers above that of a registrar but less than a Family Court judge, but will be able to take on some of the duties currently undertaken by judges, including some of the decisions in the early stage of proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, if we were to step back and think about the justice sector generally in the country, what are the real challenges that we face? Where should the Government be prioritising its efforts? I would suggest in three areas: one, the growth in violent crime and how we\u2019re going to deal with that; secondly, real issues around youth crime and the ram raids and the sense of imperviousness in that space; and the third area is definitely in this broad area of access to justice and the slow court processes and the delays in the court processes which are putting people\u2019s lives on hold for a long time. And we\u2019ve been, frankly, a bit critical of the Government\u2019s priorities in justice\u2014generally not being focused on the big issues. This bill does, in a small way, address that third area around the delays in the court processes that are putting people\u2019s lives on hold and dragging things out. And I think all MPs will be aware of many stories from many constituents and local people who have horror stories about the delays and the slowness and the cost and the aggravation and the general dysfunction, frankly, on elements of the Family Court, as well as many other court processes, which, in the hands of a determined party on either side, can be dragged out a very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, as we\u2019ve seen in this House, the House has come together on many occasions to try and streamline processes and improve it, and sometimes that hasn\u2019t worked as well as we would have hoped, because it\u2019s a very complex area dealing with human behaviour, which is not always, frankly, rational or seeing straight. It\u2019s times of great emotion, so it\u2019s a very delicate and difficult area. So this is, I suppose, a modest step in the sense of saying, \u201CWell, what\u2019s one bottleneck in the system?\u201D Well, one of the bottlenecks in the system is the time of judges, and there are a whole lot of stages along the way through the process of cases, not all of which need a full Family Court judge. Are there some tasks that we can pass on to another category, I suppose, of judicial officers? That\u2019s where the Family Court Associate comes in. Time will tell whether this is a more successful intervention than some of the others, but we fundamentally think it is worth a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe select committee process was interesting. We heard quite a few submissions from a number of groups, generally supportive but not entirely so. There have been some changes that have been made, such as giving these Family Court Associates the ability to direct a registrar, to appoint a lawyer, for example, to allow them to convene a settlement conference, and to direct a registrar to convene one, and to reduce the powers to declare paternity to cases where paternity is undefended only\u2014various tweaks that were made during the process, which may or may not help. And I hope they will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, look, the main point I would make is when you\u2019re looking at the big challenges that we face in justice, there\u2019s no doubt that the slowness of the court proceedings and the time delays to getting an outcome is a massive challenge. The Family Court is one example. Everywhere you look, unfortunately\u2014whether it goes through to the tribunals, whether it\u2019s to the employment tribunal, as well as the criminal, as well as civil cases in terms of commercial cases\u2014people\u2019s lives are on hold, waiting for outcomes. And so the Government should be focused on this area. I wish they were more focused on this area in the broader justice space. I mean, there\u2019s a lot of workshops and a lot of committees and a lot of programmes under way to try and do it, but workshops and committees and plans are all well and good, but it\u2019s the outcomes that we want to see, and at the moment the delays are still unsatisfactory. But this legislation will make some difference. In so far as it does, we support it and will be looking forward to the next stage, the committee of the whole House. In the meantime, I think that is all I need to say on the topic. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u002203740e97e76f4422bc6e9cdd8d9bf02a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203740e97e76f4422bc6e9cdd8d9bf02a\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to make some brief remarks in relation to this significant bill that really does go to addressing access to justice needs. This is an area that this Government is extremely focused on. This is not the first bill in this space. Last week, we saw the Coroners Amendment Bill go through its third reading, which will also give significant capacity to the coronial space as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI would just like to thank the Justice Committee for their work in this space. We received 31 submissions and listened to 14 oral submissions, and I think committee members would agree with me that we owe a real thanks to Dr Emily Henderson, who was very much the expert in the room and lent her expertise to us as we grappled with many of the issues in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll speak to a set of issues that the select committee recommended some changes on, and I would call them alignment amendments, because they were all about ensuring that with these new associate powers they are aligned with either some of the duties or some of the protections that sit for judges who are exercising powers in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EOne of them is the grounds for removal. So the select committee recommended a narrowing of the criteria here to inability and misbehaviour, which aligns with the ability to remove judges in the Family Court space. The second was the provisions around immunity for decisions made specific to their jurisdiction, and the third was the ability for these associates to appoint specialist lawyers to provide advice as they hear evidence as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo there were some of those more technical alignment amendments that we recommended, but we did also grapple with trickier areas, which were areas about whether associates should be granted power to make decisions in relation to and fairly key access-to-justice matters. One of those was determining whether an individual was a vexatious litigant, and the committee ended up recommending that the associates shouldn\u2019t hold that power. So, again, this is another example of a bill that was complex, that required careful balance. I do believe we got that balance correct, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8769efd56164365b0fb0da52a650283\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8769efd56164365b0fb0da52a650283\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to prefix my comments to say that we are supporting this bill, as we actually have done pretty much most of the justice bills in the most recent sitting of the House, and I\u2019ll come back to that a little bit, within the scope, of course, of this debate. But to acknowledge the member Vanushi Walters, who has just resumed her seat and who chairs the Justice Committee, it was an important piece of work, and it\u2019s one of those moments when we\u2019re actually working with colleagues across the House\u2014also acknowledging Dr Emily Henderson and her view and expertise\u2014really teasing out some of the difficult issues and, I think, coming to a good conclusion in and of itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, again, I want to say quite clearly that we support this bill, but the caveat is, like it was last week, that we feel on this side of the House that it\u2019s a little bit of window dressing. If you wanted to use a very poor analogy of running a half marathon, this is like a 100-metre dash at the moment. It doesn\u2019t go far enough. We have a fundamental set of problems within the court system, and I\u2019m not referring to judicial activism; I\u2019m just referring to the structure of the courts and the delays that we see. At the moment there are fundamental and systemic problems which need to be addressed. Yes, this bill goes a little way to assist. It\u2019s certainly not going to make things worse, but I would argue it\u2019s not going to make them exceptionally better either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat this, in effect, does, this Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, is it creates a new role of Family Court Associate (FCA). They sit with a little bit more powers than the registrar, but not the same powers as a Family Court judge. Now, I\u2019m not going to disambiguate that, but you do have to ask the question: the fact that it\u2019s just sort of blending roles, you go, \u201CWell, why not just appoint more judges?\u201D What is the problem that we have here? Or do we need more registrars? Why are we just sort of going down the middle now? I\u2019m not arguing against these again. I think they will hold a particularly good role. As I said, the previous speakers touched on some of the elements which are a debate about what this associate could or could not do. But there\u2019s just a hint to me of just that little bit of bureaucracy, just that little bit\u2014I\u2019m sort of not so much struggling as trying to find the right words, just to articulate that we aren\u2019t quite nailing this. Because, fundamentally it\u2019s sidestepping some of the key issues within our court and certainly in the Family Court system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to play one court off the other, but as a constituent MP\u2014and it doesn\u2019t actually matter if we\u2019re a constituent or a list MP, as most of us know what it\u2019s like, having to deal with people who are struggling with the Family Court and the huge delays there and that emotional pressure it\u2019s putting on families and children. So, again, it\u2019s positive\u2014it\u2019s positive to a degree that there is this piece of legislation, but as we continue to say, it really isn\u2019t the solution required. And the encouragement from this side of the House is for the Government to do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAn example of that is utilise technology more often and better. Yep, let\u2019s create this Family Court Associate, which sort of is not quite a judge, but a little bit more powerful than a court registrar. Well, why not actually look at ways that we can speed up the process? We\u2019re not really sure that even with these new associates in play, we\u2019re going to see much change in the timing. So we\u2019ll wait and see and I\u2019ll be very happy to be proven wrong if these FCAs, these associates, see a real increase in speed in the Family Court. Well, you know, figuratively speaking, I\u2019ll eat my hat, and gladly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut I just want to repeat, particularly for those at home, that we support the bill, but it\u2019s a little bit like the bills we had last week around criminal proceeds and around some targeting gangs. Again, they in themselves were not bad pieces of legislation and I and the National Party were happy to support them. They just really aren\u2019t going far enough when we have a whole series of situations that we do. I don\u2019t wish to take up more time in the House than is necessary and I end, therefore, where I started: National is pleased to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u002257204d1b32a44489a0c6e6efda9c98cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257204d1b32a44489a0c6e6efda9c98cf\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E As I set down my knitting, I am pleased to take up what one might call my other knitting. I think it is understood that the Family Court is a forum where it is so complex, it is so difficult\u2014the human issues that are involved are so intense\u2014and it is an area that we really ought to pay greater attention to, in my personal opinion. In my role as the deputy chair of the Justice Committee, it was a real passion project for me to watch the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill work through its stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo what this bill will do, as previous speakers have said, is put in some associate judges who are, essentially, going to deputise for the senior judges when it comes to administrative tasks, and they are going to take these administrative tasks off the hands of the main judges, who will then be able to get through the workload. The workload is extreme. At the moment, if I were to take a case in Whang\u0101rei court where I used to work, if I were to take on a serious case\u2014a child custody matter with some violence thrown in there\u2014I would not anticipate being able to get to a proper full hearing and a decision in under two years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThat is an appalling indictment of our system and it is why we need to bring this role in, so that we can cut some of that administrative backlog\u2014administrative backlog, I might add, which was hugely worsened by the Judith Collins reforms of 2012 which are, I have to say, pretty much universally reviled by Family Court practitioners throughout the land. It was those reforms which were aimed at cost cutting, which thought that the way to do it was to strip back legal representation from people and force them to self-represent, which, instead, have added hugely to the backlog because people cannot self-represent effectively in the Family Court. So all sorts of delays and misunderstandings have eventuated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EOn top of that, where lawyers were so anxious that a client would really do themselves a damage self-representing, they then have exploited the loophole which was to make an emergency or an ex parte application, and ex parte applications became 70 percent\u2014they became the norm as opposed to the 30 percent of applications previously\u2014because if you do an emergency order, then you can get a lawyer automatically. That completely skewed the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo we are bringing in system busters for a system that was strained and, essentially, broken by a previous National Party policy. I am pleased to see us repealing all of those policies, and I am thrilled to see us bringing in Family Court Associates. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b10463c4d4734746a4ae6a9a3687cbee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b10463c4d4734746a4ae6a9a3687cbee\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to commend this bill to the House. I come at this from a previous life working in part for Action for Children and Youth Aotearoa (ACYA), which was\u2014it continues to be, without me\u2014the organisation that submits the shadow report, or the non-governmental report, to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child. So the Government gets to submit its report, and we also get a non-governmental report, which means that that umbrella organisation\u2014with member organisations as far-reaching as nurses unions and the Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association as well as Unicef\u2014gets to present a detailed research report that we used to put together over three years with consultation and with a human rights - based lens, to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child. And I can say this: throughout the last two terms of the National Party Government when I was the policy consultant for ACYA, youth justice and the Family Court system were the main breach areas that we would raise again and again, based on sector consultation with the United Nations body, so that they could put that to successive Ministers. And our focus was the rights and wellbeing of children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo I commend this bill with a mind to the kind of work that the Family Court does, which very intimately\u2014and, in some cases, in very desperate situations\u2014impacts the rights and wellbeing of New Zealand children and young people. So we\u2019re dealing with custody and access, we\u2019re dealing with abuse, we\u2019re dealing with serious, serious issues. I can say that the bill does go some way to solving those problems and that I am shocked and surprised by the last National Party speaker, Simon O\u2019Connor, who said that this doesn\u2019t go far enough\u2014because all it does is really kind of fix the damage that was done back then: the things that slowed down the Family Court system, the things that took away the child rights expertise, the youth advocacy, and, essentially, the access to justice that we want to see in all of our courts and justice system institutions. So, yes, it goes some way to upgrade the efficacy and the efficiency and the timeliness of decisions and processes in the Family Court. That\u2019s good; we need to do that. We need to better resource all institutions, all processes that touch upon New Zealanders\u2019 rights and ability to access decisions that impact on their wellbeing and their rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe have a saying in the rights-based system that \u201CJustice delayed is justice denied\u201D, and certainly for very young people who are in large part accessing the Family Court system, that\u2019s redoubled, because we know that time means a lot more when you are a wee young person. If you have a decision delayed in terms of access to a primary caregiver\u2014or any caregiver\u2014if you have a decision that\u2019s wrongfully made without your input, perspective, or wellbeing taken into account and you\u2019re waiting for an appeal or hearing, and you are a small person of four years old and you have to wait two years, then you\u2019re six; that\u2019s actually quite a long time in developmental time, and it\u2019s quite a long time for those wh\u0101nau to wait. So efficiency is a big, big deal. And it\u2019s a big, big deal in terms of our ability as a nation to say that we actually serve the rights of the child, but also that we serve families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do want to say that far, far more needs to be done. And I do want to say that, actually, the Opposition needs to come to the table with not just a little bit supporting this but acknowledging the absolute wrong that was done. So this is a good bill, but we need this House of Representatives to come to the table and talk about resourcing the Family Court, resourcing youth advocates, and to acknowledge that we need an expert body with the training and the focus on the rights and wellbeing of children and young people but also on processes that serve our families, society, and communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe need it to acknowledge that, much as we don\u2019t want to acknowledge it, we live in a society in Aotearoa New Zealand that deals with a disproportionate rate of family and domestic and gender-based violence, for example. And so delay is not OK. A lack of partnership with community-based organisations that speak to those issues is not OK, and that takes resource; that takes a willingness to listen to the sector, and it takes a willingness to prioritise the work of our very first Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, the Hon Marama Davidson. So when those really difficult truths come to light, we need to have courage, as a society, to shine the light into the little dark corners of our culture and our society that we don\u2019t want to look at but do exist and say we\u2019re going to solve this problem. We\u2019re going to do that with resource, we\u2019re going to do that with legislation, and we\u2019re going to do that by acknowledging the truth that it\u2019s been delayed for too long and that we need to partner with organisations that have been telling us what we need to do for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAnd we need to acknowledge, whether we are in the National Party or in the Government party\u2014which is Labour right now\u2014that sometimes mistakes have been made. That\u2019s what this bill does, which I commend, but I do want us to do far more, and that takes a moment of listening, acknowledging, and in fact prioritising the work of the Family Court, which, in some cases, is some of the most essential work that will be done in a child\u2019s or a young person\u2019s life. So I commend the bill, but I implore us, as a lawmaking body, to do far more and to have the courage it takes to make systems change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022eebc1ab5d49f407daa69d5a016a7c093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eebc1ab5d49f407daa69d5a016a7c093\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand on behalf of the ACT Party in support of the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. There were 31 submissions received on this bill, and 14 of those submitters had an oral hearing. I\u2019d like to acknowledge and thank the Ministry of Justice for their support and help in understanding this piece of legislation as it worked its way through the Justice Committee. We know that the delays in the entire justice system are so bad now that we have families caught within the system who are at breaking point. None of this is good for any child or children that are caught within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to reduce those delays by creating a new role within the Family Court\u2014that of a Family Court Associate. Their job is to take on some of the minor and administrative tasks of a Family Court judge so that proceedings can start to move at a faster yet reliable pace. The Family Court Associates will be judicial officers, and they will have some but not all of the powers of a Family Court judge, and extra powers additional to that of a registrar of the Family Court. More importantly, they will have the ability to use some of the functions that a Family Court judge uses that allow some minor determinations to occur, hence getting the Family Court process moving and actually considering some cases. It means that the Family Court Associates can assist with decision-making needs as each case works its way through the Family Court system. This will benefit those that are caught in a waiting game within this system, and those that are about to enter it. It is unfortunate to note that it isn\u2019t unusual for Family Court proceedings to increase after the summer holidays, so the timing of this bill, unfortunately, is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EHaving the Commissioner of Police telling us that domestic violence is on the rise by as much as 60 percent in areas like the East Coast and Hawke\u2019s Bay is not actually surprising after the sort of natural disaster that these communities have experienced. Sadly, we will see an increase in Family Court proceedings just because of that. The timing of this bill will, therefore, be beneficial for families wishing to sort out their issues, and those that are seeking help in a timely manner for those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOnce implemented, the role of the Family Court Associate will be mainly administrative, and this should free up a Family Court judge\u2019s time to work on the more substantive matters that he faces within the cases that come before him. A Family Court Associate will be appointed for seven years, and can be reappointed only once more after that term. On the flip side, though, they can resign at any time as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill inserts new section 7B(2), in clause 4, which provides that the Governor-General can remove a Family Court Associate, on advice from the Attorney-General, if the Family Court Associate becomes bankrupt, is found guilty of misconduct, is neglectful, or simply just can\u2019t do the job. We had to think about this role and how to effect removal. This is new\u2014the creation of this role. There is no other role that directly compares to it. The Family Court Associate is not a judge, so doesn\u2019t have their full responsibility, but does have more responsibility than that of a court registrar. So we considered that, really, the removal of a Family Court Associate should align with the same reasoning behind the removal of a Family Court judge. This means that they need to come under the same removal regime, which is actually prescribed and for which there is a commissioner, the Judicial Conduct Commissioner. So we\u2019ve inserted a clause that means the Judicial Conduct Commissioner would need to get involved, and the Family Court Associate could come under the Judicial Conduct Commissioner and Judicial Conduct Panel Act 2004. The commissioner\u2019s report would then go to the Attorney-General to remove the Family Court Associate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe also carefully considered what immunity we should give a Family Court Associate. Originally, we said that no proceeding could be commenced against a Family Court Associate unless that associate had exceeded their jurisdiction or acted outside of it. In light of the changes we made to how a Family Court Associate can be removed, we decided to ensure that the Family Court Associate actually has the same immunities as the Family Court judge. To keep that balance and that fairness, that had to be there for this new role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended a review clause be added to this bill. So we have instructed the Parliamentary Counsel Office to include replacement section 7K, set out in clause 4, stating that a review must be held within five years of the commencement of the Act and reported to the Ministry of Justice. The review is to determine whether or not the establishment of the Family Court Associate has reduced the delays that we are seeing in the Family Court and also whether or not any changes need to be made to the Act as to the Family Court Associate appointment process. We need to question whether the functions, the duties, and the powers of the associate are adequate enough, and what else the associate can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EClause 6 of this bill introduces a new Schedule 2 into the Act, which sets out the powers that they have. The Family Court Associate can appoint a lawyer to assist them under eight different Acts. These are listed on page 4 of the commentary on the bill, in the footnote. The committee could see that under seven of those eight Acts, a Family Court judge can direct a registrar to appoint a lawyer to assist the court. The Family Violence Act is an exception to that. So we\u2019ve asked for the same conditions to be available to the Family Court Associate, and, as a result, clause 1(ga) has been added to Schedule 2 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are making changes to other Acts as well, including making amendments to the Care of Children Act 2004, where, currently, a judge can direct a registrar to convene a settlement conference before a proceeding is heard. The committee concluded that a Family Court Associate should be able to do the same, and they have asked for that to be added to the bill in clause 18, which inserts section 46Q(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESection 141 of the Care of Children Act is about vexatious proceedings. If the court is satisfied that a person is persistently bringing vexatious proceedings before them, then they can order that any proceedings can commence only with the leave of a Family Court judge. The bill as drafted would have given a Family Court Associate the same power, but the committee were worried about this because denying someone the ability to bring a case before the Family Court has the potential for the court to be accused of denying access to justice, and this is quite serious. We were not confident that we should be putting a Family Court Associate into that position where they deny a case to be heard. So we asked for that to be removed from the bill. The flip side of that is that we do want the Family Court Associate to be able to commence proceedings for a person who\u2019s deemed to be vexatious if they feel this is a relevant case to be heard without taking up a Family Court judge\u2019s time. So we\u2019ve asked for section 141(2) to be amended to reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThere are changes to the Status of Children Act 1969, where there is a question over paternity. The bill as drafted initially gave a Family Court Associate the same power as the judge to make declarations of paternity or non-paternity. As drafted, it would allow the associate to make these declarations on both defended and non-defended applications. The committee agreed that a defended application would be more complex, and because of that we did not want an associate to preside over such complexities. So we\u2019ve asked for an amendment so that the associate can make needed declarations as to paternity only in undefended cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also a piece, near the end of the commentary on the bill, about the Family Court panels that three submitters discussed and said were urgently needed. However, it was outside of the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank those particular submitters for bringing fresh ideas. The bill has a review scheduled, and we believe it\u2019s good that the select committee report has mentioned the proposals from submitters, as there may be a case to include this at that time. This initiative, along with similar initiatives for the coroner\u2019s courts, will help to immediately address the backlog that these courts are facing, backlogs that are essentially denying\u2014by delaying\u2014justice to the people. We on this side of the House support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce884b6da42648259f1c528f1ca2f613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce884b6da42648259f1c528f1ca2f613\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker; a pleasure to take a call on the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill in its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard from the previous speakers, the bill is about improving outcomes for people who participate in Family Court proceedings, and especially the children, by reducing the delays involved. We\u2019ve heard many examples of how the delays have wide-ranging effects, especially on children. Someone mentioned that justice delayed is justice denied, and I think that is a very clear maxim to go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E So I would also like to put my acknowledgment to everybody who submitted on this bill. We heard there were 31 submitters, and the Justice Committee heard 14 of those in oral submissions. They included the judiciary, professional organisations, iwi and their representatives, and interested groups and individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo what the bill does is respond to specific issues that were identified by the independent panel which was established in 2018 by our Government. Among the findings was that there was a high administrative burden that was placed on judges, which then in turn contributed to some of those delays. The panel subsequently recommended that a new position be established in the Family Court. So we\u2019ve heard people talk about this new position being the Family Court Associate, which would be a judicial officer enabled to take some of that work away from the judges\u2014for example, making decisions in the early stages of proceedings. That means that judges can make more effective use of their time, and in return it will reduce delays and assist in improving the process and experience of people who participate in Family Court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, it was really a pleasure to hear our expert in this field on our select committee, Emily Henderson, speak on particular experiences that she\u2019s had when she was working in this field. She\u2019s always very generous in sharing those experiences, and I find that very helpful. So, again, she spoke about the reforms in 2014 that resulted in significant delays. In fact, without notice applications saw a rise from 30 percent in 2014 to what became\u2014what she referred to as\u2014a new norm: 70 percent. That is why, as I mentioned before, an independent panel was put in place to examine those changes, and make recommendations on how we could further improve the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThe select committee has recommended some refinements to the bill to assist in reducing delays in the Family Court. I won\u2019t go over those again. I think the previous speaker, in particular, Nicole McKee, gave a really good, detailed overview of what those particular recommendations are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EShe also spoke about the review that is going to be put in place\u2014in five years after the commencement of the bill\u2014to make sure that the Family Court Associate role would actually have assisted in reducing delays in the Family Court. So as the Minister said previously, introducing this new Family Court Associate role is just one part of the long-term programme of change in the family justice system, and one more step towards a system that is ensuring timely access to justice, as well as being responsive to the needs of wh\u0101nau. I would recommend and commend it to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002286ace83d537047479b380f2b4fd5c344\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ace83d537047479b380f2b4fd5c344\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Tama Potaka\u2014a five-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd6908d236084e28b6962842255d260d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd6908d236084e28b6962842255d260d\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai e te Whare taukumekume nei. He rangi whakamiharo t\u0113nei. Maringa nui au ki te k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei pire, ar\u0101 te Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. Te tuahine, Minita Kiritapu, tuki roa o te m\u0101ipi ture me te m\u0101ngai m\u014D te tangata, kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is an amazing day. I am fortunate to speak on this bill, the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. To my sister, Minister Kiritapu, mouthpiece of the legislative taiaha and spokesperson for humanity, hello there.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EImproving outcomes for people participating in the Family Court proceedings\u2014children, wh\u0101nau, and, of course, the judges\u2014is critical. The judges, in particular, are often overwhelmed by many challenges, sheer workload, multiple expectations\u2014particularly to keep criminals out of prison\u2014and demands to attend various invitations to well-provisioned hui and speaking engagements throughout the country and offshore. Establishing a new type of judicial officer to take on some of this mahi, carried out by the judges, should make it easier to efficiently progress diverse lower-level matters. We hope to see this legislation better enable core values of our party: strong wh\u0101nau, strong families, strong communities, and personal security. As a result, e tautoko ana te P\u0101ti N\u0101hinara haki kahurangi nei i t\u014D te pire anga whakamua i t\u0113nei w\u0101 [the blue flag National Party supports the progress of the bill at this stage.] We will support the bill at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ENow, amending various pieces of family law legislation reminds me of spending quality time, about 500 metres from here, sitting quietly under the careful and often monotone instruction of our family law lecturer Bill Atkin. The Minister of Justice herself and also the Hon Duncan Webb would both recall the dulcet vibes of Bill Atkin and the entire teaching cohort of our alma mater and the significant munificence given for freedom of expression therein. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ESure, this bill is a mechanism to combat unacceptable court delays and wait-lists, which have increased significantly over the past few years. But establishing more roles, like establishing more bureaucracy, will not necessarily address the root causes of the issues: an inefficient court system that\u2019s sometimes focused on unusual priorities, as my colleague Mark Mitchell understands. The bill seeks to reduce waiting times. We would implore, for various reasons\u2014or take, as I\u2019d like to describe them\u2014that there are systemic issues within the courts\u2014e.g., technology utilisation, and I won\u2019t go into how inefficient M\u0101ori Land Online has been over the many years that it\u2019s been in force\u2014the lack of evidence regarding the expected or intended effect on courts\u2019 processing times, and the time it will take to recruit, train, induct, and take on board Family Court Associates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ERecruiting these associate candidates with suitable experience will also be difficult due to the limited pool of qualified candidates. Everyone seems to be getting into judicial positions these days. I actually acknowledge the new judges Tahana and Williams at this time, and also there is limited space at the courts for Family Court Associates and judges to do work at the same time. So there will be some capital expenditure costs associated with these great, bright ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EHowever, my late-night murmurings and rumblings are exhausted, and I\u2019d boldly recommend to cautiously proceed so we can see some light through the select committee process, and members therein can paddle this waka forward so it doesn\u2019t come foul in choppy oral seas or the whirlpool of verbal posturing that sometimes takes place in this Whare and also in select committees. So I hark back to the k\u014Drero of one of our most well-known leaders and Business Hall of Fame admittees, Te Puea H\u0113rangi, \u201CMahia te mahi hei painga m\u014D te iwi.\u201D\u2014if it\u2019s good for the people, get on with it. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4dc935f46204f4db5e9cd330a6e9dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4dc935f46204f4db5e9cd330a6e9dcd\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mahia te mahi, said Tama Potaka, the previous speaker, and I\u2019m into that as well. I\u2019m here to support this bill and to also acknowledge the submitters that came before the Justice Committee and put their thoughts forward to try and make this the most robust piece of legislation that we can as we look to reform small parts of the Family Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge the contribution from Te Hunga R\u014Dia M\u0101ori o Aotearoa: Stormie Waapu, Luke Fitzmaurice, who put together their submission on behalf of the association, really looking for that aspirational, transformational change. They, in their submission, told the committee that they didn\u2019t think that this was transformational enough. They were looking for more joined-up systems and processes across the Family Court system, and I want to acknowledge them for that. This is a small piece of legislative change that will help the overall picture, help to deal with those delays, but I want to acknowledge the effort that they put into their submission. These are people that practise inside the system and represent people that are working inside the system day in, day out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhilst they didn\u2019t think that this bill went far enough, there is a general consensus around the House today that, actually, we are moving in the right direction. There\u2019s still a lot more work that needs to be done to ensure that our Family Court system adheres to the principle in article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi to ensure that our M\u0101ori people get to have the tino rangatiratanga over our taonga, of which our tamariki and our wh\u0101nau are absolutely central to that. So I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaa6b0d378d64262ad83985c6bc09215\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaa6b0d378d64262ad83985c6bc09215\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s an honour to speak on the second reading of the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. This bill is based on the recommendation from the 2019 report Te Korowai Ture \u0101-Wh\u0101nau, which found that judges had a high admin workload as a contributor to the delays in the Family Court. I myself have navigated through the Family Court system, going through custodial disputes, and I know what it\u2019s like to have a delay in the Family Court as someone who has actually been a client through the Family Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to spend more time to talk about my experiences as a social worker or as a supervisor writing reports to the courts on my professional recommendations for Family Court cases, but what I like about this report is that it does have a review date. Without further delay, I commend this bill, the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, to the House. M\u0101l\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u002265cccca073a04a9f94f81140a10ba790\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265cccca073a04a9f94f81140a10ba790\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I take a call at the second reading of the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. I addressed the House at the first reading of this bill. During that first reading debate, I reiterate again this evening, I said that this bill, despite its good intentions and the purpose to reduce delays in Family Court proceedings so the court process works better for participants, particularly children\u2014this is just somewhat a bit of a patch it, hatchet, band-aid job, with respect. I say that because the appointment of a Family Court Associate will help alleviate those delays only in part. The alleviation will be to do with the administrative workload of Family Court judges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAt the first reading speech I gave in this House, I talked about the solution as one that would need to be multi-layered and multi-tiered. The appointment of Family Court Associates is just band-aiding, or assisting the burden of the paperwork in the administration of the court process and system. That is not going to remedy the overall efficiency that\u2019s required for the Family Court, and with the review that has been recommended by the select committee for this to come back in a couple of years\u2019 time to see the efficacy and the impact of this legislation\u2014time will tell. But the whole essence of the Family Court proceedings with our children who are, in the main, the subject of those proceedings\u2014the time frames of proceedings have impacts on children. Those of us who have children and those of us who have worked in the area with children know that the concept of a child\u2019s time sense is very different to that of the adult world. So time is so critical and important, particularly with children who are the subject of Family Court proceedings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAt this second reading, it\u2019s a case where the Justice Committee has, with a keen ear, hopefully, applied what they have listened to from these submitters. There were submissions from 31 interest groups and individuals, with oral evidence heard from 14 submitters. The committee, with a keen ear from listening to those submissions from people who know better than most of the politicians in this House because they work in the sector, and then applying through the eye in detail of the written proposed legislation\u2014hopefully, this bill before the House may be improved as a result of those submissions. It\u2019s noted in the Justice Committee report returned back to this House that there have been a number of recommendations to amend the bill, and that will be addressed at the third reading with those amendments factored in and taken into account. There have been a number of amendments as a result of listening with a keen ear and applying that with a keen eye to the amendments at the committee of the whole House\u2014it would be considered to be done with prudence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the amendments have been detailed in the Justice Committee. I wasn\u2019t a member of that committee. My colleagues the Hon Paul Goldsmith, the Hon Mark Mitchell, and Simon O\u2019Connor, with my colleague Chris Penk taking part in consideration because he is our spokesperson for courts\u2014the bill will be improved as a result of submissions that have been made. But, as I say, and I again reiterate from my first reading contribution, this bill does nothing to address the root cause of the issues, which is an inefficient court system. The appointment of Family Court Associates is only going to in part address some of the workload of judges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI have also iterated in this House before that there are more proceedings coming before the court because we are living in a society that is becoming, regrettably, more dysfunctional with the complexity of issues that are weighted and burdened, and to be borne and carried by families. In this time of crises\u2014a cost of living crisis\u2014the flow-on effect will be to the family units. The flow-on effect will be bearing out with the impact, as it is, on our children and childcare and protection issues. Again, that will all wait and come back to the Family Court\u2014domestic violence, family violence. That\u2019s been proven with what the fallout of COVID has been, and now we\u2019re going to just await the hit and the fallout of the cost of living crisis, which comes back to our families, and then it will come back to be borne evidence with proceedings in the Family Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe other concern is that, essentially, this role of a Family Court Associate is one of a junior role. I\u2019ve talked before and reiterated the importance of the appointment of more Family Court judges. Mention has been made in the House, and I do acknowledge Judges Tahana and Williams, both appointed to the Family Court. I served with Tanya Blyth Williams\u2014she is now a judge; Judge Williams\u2014who was a Family Court lawyer, and we\u2019ve both practised and specialised in child advocacy as counsel for children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s critical that we have people who are experienced and have practised in the field, but, importantly, that we listen to what they do convey to us as parliamentarians, politicians, in our role and service as public servants and listen to what they share with us as to how things could be better addressed, solutions, and remedies. Despite the good intent and purpose of this legislation, it really is just band-aiding a very complex, multi-tiered, multi-layered system. It\u2019s not just in the Family Court, but we see it in the District Court, the criminal court, the Youth Court, our M\u0101ori Land Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EReference and mention has been made to attempts to improve and make better, but the fallout and the offshoot of that is if we\u2019re just going to slap on a band-aid and address just a part of that system, we\u2019re going to soon see that band-aid being torn off and the festering of that wound underneath because it hasn\u2019t been properly excised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo it sounds all rather grim. The whole point and purpose and intent is to make this better, but the message that\u2019s being conveyed, loud and clear, is if we\u2019re going to do a job\u2014if the Government is going to do a job\u2014do the job properly, and make sure that it\u2019s not just piecemeal. This is an overall complex system that requires that overall complexity of experience, and taking into account that we are not just dealing with judges; we are dealing with judges who are working within an infrastructure that is inappropriate. The configuration of the courts, the use of technology is not being efficient-sized\u2014it\u2019s not being used as well as it ought to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the appointment of Family Court Associates may seem all well and good. As I say, time will tell. With that, at the second reading, the National Party is supporting this bill, and at the committee of the whole House, the amendments proposed under the select committee report after submissions have been factored in\u2014to be duly done so at that stage. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf6205fcd58149df988aaff49bdba0ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf6205fcd58149df988aaff49bdba0ac\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, it is a pleasure to take a call on the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, and I want to say to the previous speaker, Harete Hipango, that while I acknowledge her significant experience in this area, I think this is a very good bill and I think it will do a lot to unclog some of the delays that we do have in the Family Court. In fact, one of the predictions is that it will save about 25 percent of judicial time, which I think is extremely significant when you think about the really important matters that Family Court judges are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn essence, this is a very pragmatic piece of legislation but will aid in a very important and noble aim, which I think we share across the House, which is access to justice. We do have a significant amount of work undertaken by our Family Court judges and we do know that it is better for all participants if it\u2019s done more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETherefore, after a significant review undertaken by three independent experts, Te Korowai Ture \u0101-Wh\u0101nau, one of their recommendations was to introduce these Family Court Associates in order to speed things up. Now, they do the administrative side of things. The Family Court judges are left, then, with the very important work like guardianship. Decisions that materially affect children still stay with the Family Court judges. The work that these Family Court Associates do is simply to allow the important work of the Family Court to continue, which I think, on the whole, will make a better experience for the people involved in the Family Court, and will alleviate some of the stress that judges have. It is a very pragmatic solution, as I said, recommended by an independent panel, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b58fef61e670409ca75f7b937bb2f639\u0022\u003ESelf-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227afec591d80345b4bb4356926b47b843\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2cf3f28e2a48608ae9180d8956ba08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2cf3f28e2a48608ae9180d8956ba08\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab2acdc30454c11886251b8f954b046\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c86079d5d246efa3c008840ab410ef\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to read this bill for the second time. This bill amends both the Freedom Camping Act 2011 and the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006. The bill was introduced in August 2022 and referred to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFreedom camping is important to Aotearoa New Zealand for both our people and our visitors, with many freedom campers travelling widely to experience our wonderful te taiao and spend money in our communities. However, while the number of freedom campers has been steadily increasing over the last decade, so too have the negative environmental and social impacts. A particular concern is those who freedom camp in vehicles that do not contain fixed toilets and are disposing of human waste inappropriately, polluting our environment and angering our communities. [Interruption] I can say to the two members opposite interjecting that even their councils support the moves that we are making in this legislation, and I recommend to them to strap into their toilet seats as we flush out the people who are misbehaving in this space, and I encourage them to start seeing the light on this matter and support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKaitiakitanga is a responsibility that we all have. Whether you\u2019re an overseas visitor, whether you\u2019re a Kiwi, whether you like exploring our backyard, or you\u2019re on holiday, we must all respect the whenua and preserve it for future generations to enjoy. Concerns about irresponsible freedom campers were raised in the 2021 Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment report, which noted the negative impact to our environment occurring under the current system. This followed years of calls for regulatory reform, particularly from local authorities and communities, and this Government has responded with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe bill will improve the management of vehicle-based freedom camping by creating a robust regulatory system that local government can rely on to reduce the negative effects of freedom camping. The bill ensures that vehicle certification is consistent and to a high standard, while giving a robust regulatory system that local government can rely on to reduce the negative effects of freedom camping. The certification is consistent and to a high standard, while giving local government more tools to address the specific issues to their regions. It will also give our communities confidence in our freedom camping system, and the bill supports our visitors in following the Tiaki Promise to protect nature, keep New Zealand clean, and show respect to others and the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis bill does not stop people enjoying the activity of freedom camping, nor does it change the quintessential backcountry experience that no doubt many of us grew up with. It is about protecting our environment and improving things for our communities, and not preventing people from freedom camping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to thank everybody who made a submission on this bill, especially those who took the time to speak to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee in person. I also want to thank the members of the committee for their consideration of the bill, and can I, at this point in time, also thank the hard-working officials. Even before the select committee process, the Government had undertaken extensive consultation, receiving over 5,000 submissions in response to the discussion document that informed the bill. Throughout the preparation of the bill, officials worked closely with representatives from key freedom camping groups and local authorities. Their input has provided an important practical perspective in the development of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe select committee heard from around 750 submitters, many of whom opposed the bill because it will require self-contained vehicles like freedom campers to have a fixed toilet. However, the views of this minority of less than 1 percent of self-contained vehicle owners should not be blown out of proportion, and Mr Mooney should listen up, because the councils in his electorate actually pushed for this legislation. I can tell him, on a recent visit, having visited one of the gems of tourism in his electorate, there were people freedom camping there, and that is an issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EHowever, the Government has heard time and time again from local authorities, in some of those members\u2019 electorates, and the communities that they represent, about the challenges they face as a result of freedom camping, citing the fact that human waste, litter, and other antisocial behaviour has been found in their regions, and, in fact, in some of the most beautiful places in this country. As such, we saw the majority of local authorities support the bill on behalf of their communities. They are the ones currently picking up the tab for irresponsible freedom campers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFixed toilets are a key aspect of building confidence in the freedom camping system and reducing the environmental impacts and costs caused by irresponsible freedom campers. It\u2019s estimated that there are 73,000 self-contained vehicles in New Zealand, and the research shows that for domestic freedom campers, 85 percent of those already have a fixed or fitted toilet. Those who don\u2019t and who are not able to fit one will still be able to stay at any of the hundreds of private or Department of Conservation campsites around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESome have argued that portable toilets are sufficient, but the research shows that fixed toilets are approximately twice as likely to be used by freedom campers as portable toilets. For domestic freedom campers, over 98 percent of those with fixed toilets use them. The fixed toilet requirement is not designed to stop people from freedom camping, but rather ensure that it is done responsibly. Requiring fixed toilets will encourage increased usage and help reduce the improper disposal of waste, which currently incurs a cost borne by local communities to repair the harm done to the natural environment by irresponsible freedom campers. [Interruption] Well, I mean, if the other side doubts it, they can always ask Simeon Brown to get out in his gumboots with a shovel to fix it. It will also help to build trust in the regulatory system, as these toilets can\u2019t be easily removed from their vehicles after certification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFreedom camping has never been free, and it is often ratepayers and taxpayers footing the bill. The Government has already provided $90 million of funding for tourism-related infrastructure since 2017 through the Tourism Infrastructure Fund, and a further $24.5 million on freedom camping projects since 2018 through the Responsible Camping Fund. Despite this funding, our communities are still paying for the actions of a minority of those who behave irresponsibly. That is why we\u2019ve chosen to take a regulation-based approach, along with providing funding for local authorities to implement the new system. It is time that the cost of freedom camping is shifted from our communities to those who choose to enjoy our beautiful environment in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI understand there were concerns raised about the impact of the bill on homelessness. The intent of the bill is not to penalise those experiencing homelessness, and I will look to ensure the legislation reflects this intent. I have listened to feedback from submitters, the Regulations Review Committee, and recommendations from officials published in their departmental report. As the committee did not report back on the bill, I am intending to take forward a comprehensive Supplementary Order Paper at the committee of the whole House stage to improve the bill\u2019s overall operation. Some of the changes I intend to progress through this Supplementary Order Paper include lowering the default infringement fee, amending the definition of a motor vehicle, and minor technical amendments to enhance the operation of bylaws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, let me commend this bill to the House. It implements urgently required reforms that will create confidence in the freedom camping system. We can no longer ignore the costs that irresponsible freedom campers impose on our environment and our communities. Now is the time to respond to the calls for change from local government and make these changes while our international visitor numbers start to build back. To do nothing will only lead to more concern, more pressure on our local communities and environment, and, sadly, a loss of social licence. In this vein, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00227c552127716d422f84b725cee8aff432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c552127716d422f84b725cee8aff432\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6454358da54c248bb31affaf09e43c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6454358da54c248bb31affaf09e43c\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill at the second reading. I\u2019m sure that the Minister felt that that was a highlight of his career, as he spent nine minutes talking about toilets; but I now have a few minutes where I need to speak about the same subject. I do note that the previous Tourism Minister, the Hon Stuart Nash, said at the first reading of this bill that \u201CThe days of the dodgy vehicle are now numbered\u201D\u2014interesting words, and I think those words really articulate where this probably has gone wrong, because there\u2019s been a focus on vehicles, rather than the behaviour of campers. National agrees that stronger regulations for freedom camping are needed, but the Government\u2019s Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill is too restrictive and pushes unreasonable costs on to Kiwis, forcing us to oppose the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe requirement for vehicles to have a fixed toilet punishes the nearly 70,000 responsible New Zealanders who have suitable portable toilets in their vehicles and use them. Under this proposed law, a camper with a fixed toilet who doesn\u2019t use it will not be breaking the law, but a camper who uses a non-fixed toilet will be subject to a fine; that should be reversed. National want to see all freedom campers treated equally and fairly by the Government. The Government had a chance to listen to New Zealand at the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee and make key changes, and, as the Minister noted, most of the submitters opposed the bill. Unfortunately, the Government didn\u2019t make any changes, forcing National to oppose the bill. National was wanting to propose some sensible changes to make this a workable bill, and hoped the Government would support them; unfortunately, that did not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo law-abiding, responsible Kiwis enjoying themselves and the outdoors will be punished potentially by this. So someone with a portable toilet could use it responsibly, while someone with a fixed toilet could decide not to use it\u2014but only one of them would be breaking the law. I note that the Responsible Campers Association founder, Rob Osborne, told the committee that imposing fitted toilets and all this stuff isn\u2019t going to guarantee people use them. How does having larger campervans meet the Government\u2019s long-term goals of sustainability and becoming carbon-neutral and all that stuff as well? That was the question posed by Bob Osborne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b5136d875843dca0069f6bdb41947c\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c362a099f54ce2a5ffb4f77634ab3a\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY\u003C/span\u003E: So I think that is a good question, Mr Mitchell, and one well-posed\u2014and one not answered by this Government. I also note that it\u2019s estimated that converting a van would cost somewhere between $1,200 and $5,000 now. To put that in context, we are in a cost of living crisis right now; there are ongoing supply chain issues and significant labour shortages. Firstly, how are people going to be able to afford this, and, secondly, be able to get the resources to actually install these into their campervans? It\u2019s a real problem; and I note that the Minister made brief reference to people who are homeless, and, unfortunately, right now in Queenstown, there are people who are living in tents and vans and cars, and this bill is certainly not going to help them. So I suggest the Government is focused on the wrong thing here and is not looking at actually how to solve the real issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI note that it\u2019s not just the 70,000 responsible New Zealanders who have suitable portable toilets in their vehicles\u2014and use them\u2014who will be punished by this bill. A large tourism company made a submission to the bill as well, and noted that they operate over a thousand motorhomes in the country. They\u2019ll only have 18 months to transition to bring their whole fleet up to standard, and as motorhomes are relatively long-lived assets, they\u2019ll need to retrofit them all. They have the resources to do that, but will still face those supply chain issues and labour shortages in retrofitting a significant number of the thousand-motorhome fleet. They did point out that others will struggle, however, because \u201CThis requires capital expenditure [that] for many operators, [has been] carefully managed following the effects of COVID-19\u201D, and I really do not think the Government has turned their mind to this. So this is not only impacting the 70,000 responsible Kiwis who have suitable portable toilets in their vehicles and use them but it also will be punishing these companies who are just trying to trade their way out of the last, incredibly difficult, three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo, again, the Government has focused on vehicles as opposed to focusing on the behaviour of campers, and that\u2019s where this has gone wrong, so we will be proposing changes to this bill at the committee of the whole House stage. I certainly hope that the Minister will support that and we can actually look at having a useable bill that is actually going to address the real issue. With that, I\u2019ll say, regrettably, I cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u00227deb142e98194eddb78a99d92bf4a8e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227deb142e98194eddb78a99d92bf4a8e0\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just thank, first of all, the advisers of the House on all their work on this bill with us together. Can I just also thank our out-going chair as well, Jamie Strange, for shepherding the first half of this bill, and here we are at the second reading of the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill, better known as the freedom camping bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EThis bill, I think, has brought a lot of emotions to the select committee process, and you can probably see, here in the House here today. It is because I think being able to camp and enjoy the great outdoors in New Zealand always has been part of the Kiwi lifestyle. And I definitely know that when my friends and family come to Aotearoa New Zealand, they appreciate what nature has to offer to everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s where I want to start my contribution tonight. The precise reason why we have this bill in this House today is that we need to protect New Zealand\u2019s nature. We trade on the international stage as 100% Pure New Zealand. By having that branding, we actually need to do the work behind it. It\u2019s not enough just to say that as a slogan all across the world and not actually deliver the goods of a clean, green New Zealand. This is the bill where we have to make sure that everyone who comes to our country\u2014including those who live in our country\u2014and enjoys freedom camping, does so responsibly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI still remember during the select committee process, vividly, where lots and lots of submitters had actually made their submissions via audiovisual link from their own campervan. Probably one of the most interesting things was seeing the different size, the different styles, and the different settings they had, and just them being absolutely proud of their own motor vehicles. Then I realised, as those who opposed the bill started saying that this is their right\u2014you know, they wanted to be able to keep enjoying that freedom\u2014and as we started to push back and say that, \u201CWell, so where are you calling us from at the moment?\u201D, they said, \u201CWell I\u2019m on council land right now.\u201D I said, \u201CWell, is there a toilet there?\u201D They said, \u201CYes.\u201D \u201CIs there a shower facility?\u201D \u201CYes.\u201D \u201CAre there cooking facilities?\u201D \u201CYes.\u201D Then I said back to them, \u201CWell, you are not going to get affected by this bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo I have been concerned by the amount of information out there that is not actually correct. This bill actually only regulates those places that have no shower and no toilet facilities. Actually, the majority of New Zealand campers\u2014in fact, the majority of all the submitters who actually submitted to us\u2014they\u2019re not technically freedom campers in terms of the way that we want to actually legislate in this bill. They might be parked on the driveways of their relatives and their friends, they might be in a caravan park\u2014those still will not be affected by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI just want to use the last few minutes of my speech to talk about the issue of homelessness. That was actually one of the issues that the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee had grappled with over and over again, and also with a lot of contribution from our colleagues from the Green Party as well. So I think we\u2019re at this point where we want to make sure that the local authorities have discretion over who they prosecute and to make sure that they have the responsibility to check that the person who\u2019s in the vehicle at that time\u2014that they\u2019re not just there because they\u2019re homeless\u2014so to be able to have regard for that community and to look after all of the New Zealanders who needs a home and a place to live as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo this is a bill that I think has come at the right time\u2014as New Zealand opens up our doors to the rest of the world, as tourism starts to come back to our shores. We really need to deliver the goods. We need to make sure that we keep up our reputation and that everyone who comes to our shores really has the responsibility of keeping this piece of land clean and green. So, therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002241609b7cb4374174bece83af54ee9e3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241609b7cb4374174bece83af54ee9e3a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. This House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. Good evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2023040427ed3ea6daa449b4affbd01ef090534b000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"