"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295a587d5712247adb78f6110b3caed06\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 9 MAY 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e142e70faf794e0f951221f6e3c2baff\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 9 MAY 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbbbb15836d14627b4f632138651a3f1\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f8a8566ec0446f5ad2149bc4692e6bf\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002271cb1872739a4b928d666ff35dbb2850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271cb1872739a4b928d666ff35dbb2850\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, in recognition of Rotuman Language Week, I\u2019ve asked Ingrid Leary to say the prayer today in Rotuman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002221e504540fe4445c855b5e2b2865ade7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221e504540fe4445c855b5e2b2865ade7\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Gagaj \u2018\u1E00itu, \u2018\u1E01mis \u2018u\u1E01\u2019u\u1E01\u2019\u1E01kia \u2018\u00E4e \u2018e reko \u1E01lalum \u2018atakoa ne \u2018\u1E01mis p\u014D \u2018e \u2018otomis m\u1E01uri. \u2018\u1E00mis \u2018u\u1E01\u2019u\u1E01\u2019\u1E01kia \u2018\u00E4e \u2018e reko m\u00E5\u00FCr \u2018on S\u1E01u F\u0101 ta Jiare ma far la \u2018\u00E4e la mu\u1E01\u2019\u1E01kia \u2018otomis h\u1E01if\u00E4egaga \u2018e ter\u1E01ni te \u2018i. La p\u014D la \u2018\u1E01mis la a\u2019sokoa \u2018amn\u00E5k t\u016Bt\u016B ne R\u012B T\u1E01un\u00E5\u2019 te\u2019is \u2018e \u2018ou poto ma \u2018inea, \u2018e h\u1E01i\u00E4f\u2019\u1E01kiga, h\u1E01ihanisiga ma hu\u1E01g v\u1E01iv\u1E01i se \u2018on lelei ne hanue te\u2019is Niu Sir\u1E01gi. \u2018Emen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E[Lord God, we thank you because of all the blessings that we receive in our lives. We thank you for the life of King Charles and ask that you guide our discussions today so that we may carry out the purposes of this House of meeting through your wisdom and knowledge, in mutual respect, mutual care and humility for the betterment of this nation New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022566ca434fc844be58a21241cf442e0c2\u0022\u003EPARLIAMENTARY MEMBERSHIP\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266880d69cbc747cc88e36845cf3c44e7\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014Dr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a37e6a6793ae4de0b7e61298e85d2ac0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a37e6a6793ae4de0b7e61298e85d2ac0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8134f7a173d416eaca1e8d6782f17b7\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0fe39edea249c5acc67b636d15f674\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014under Standing Order 36(1)(c)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c1a2fd8c0e4e048d1b2e460812e85e\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38e107486724e0e98e0a108ceb5e905\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m on my feet. Members, under Standing Order 36(1)(c), I have been advised by the Green Party that their parliamentary membership has changed and that Dr Elizabeth Kerekere is no longer a member of the Green Party for parliamentary purposes. Accordingly, under Standing Order 35(5), Dr Kerekere is, from 8 May 2023, regarded as an independent member for parliamentary purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ee4a4395b964304b0da06d997ac171c\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec66e4d391f04f2c8a3d69156f622d45\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to the Prime Minister, 8 March\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002263904a6b2edd4fd2bb58f204657ab89e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263904a6b2edd4fd2bb58f204657ab89e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct an answer to a supplementary question that I gave on Wednesday, 8 March in answer to question No. 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9642f12c924444a9c29373b0811bd10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7d95fda4aa345e1926d2993fb4fda6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In one of my answers to a supplementary question, I said that the number of ram raids had fallen by three-quarters, or 75 percent. Data to the end of February 2023 showed that the number of ram raids had fallen from their peak in August 2022 by two-thirds, or 66 percent. During that same period, the number of individuals committing ram raids fell by 83 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce6f0bd3c14d476e979ed82dcc8d2d67\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a8a8fbe152a49b2b4875764e2d5b936\u0022\u003EHis Majesty King Charles III\u2014Coronation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc7b6b219de842e2876af76c29ae906a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc7b6b219de842e2876af76c29ae906a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E A further point of order, Mr Speaker. Following a Business Committee discussion, I seek leave to move a motion without notice congratulating His Majesty, following his recent coronation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239730e51701f4a9483984aa2620586cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223121e150f47466c88b9596e21bac832\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House congratulate His Majesty the King on the occasion of his coronation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOn 6 May, I was privileged to attend the coronation of His Majesty King Charles III and Queen Camilla at Westminster Abbey. It was a rare and special event. The previous coronation, of Queen Elizabeth II, took place 70 years ago, in 1953. The world is a very different place now to what it was in 1953, and the coronation provided an opportunity to reflect on history as well as to look ahead to the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EKing Charles automatically became the King of New Zealand on 8 September last year, following the death of the late Queen. The coronation was a celebration of his accession to the throne not just of the United Kingdom but as head of State of 15 nations around the world, including our own. Those nations span across three different continents. It was a great source of pride to see New Zealand\u2019s Defence Force personnel marching in the procession and to have New Zealand represented among the guests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAttending in London and being able to meet personally with the King reinforced to me his genuine interest in our people and his awareness of our place in the world. The King and other members of the royal family have been closely following our recovery from the recent Auckland floods and Cyclone Gabrielle, and King Charles\u2019 passion around environmental issues, including climate change, was clearly very evident in our discussions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EKing Charles has visited New Zealand 10 times, and he has a strong personal commitment to Aotearoa. The themes he selected for his coronation were youth, diversity, and sustainability\u2014themes which also resonate strongly with New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhile not everyone in our nation, or even in this House, shares similar views on the role of the monarchy in a modern society\u2014and public debate will, undoubtedly, continue on that topic\u2014I\u2019m sure that everyone will join with me in congratulating His Majesty on this significant milestone. The coronation was a moment where the King publicly took oaths of service and duty. I know that he takes those oaths seriously and deeply personally. I wish King Charles well in his role, and I send the warmest wishes and congratulations to His Majesty and to the Queen for the lives of service that they have committed to, on behalf of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022171c6f0887d84586a3690868252ec598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022171c6f0887d84586a3690868252ec598\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00222ac9143002f2492faef96349810c3d59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ac9143002f2492faef96349810c3d59\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Kia ora\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223bff306dc87b4f27820229ded33a5208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bff306dc87b4f27820229ded33a5208\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I was informed this morning that all parties had agreed to that by Te Paati M\u0101ori. I was subsequently informed by a number of parties that that was not the case. Given that it happened anyway, I have limited ability to address it except Rawiri Waititi will leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c13605606b4123b277e340fd41c015\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And Debbie Ngarewa-Packer will leave the Chamber as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00228270c3e7607042d181833a6f6bd45acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228270c3e7607042d181833a6f6bd45acb\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure, on behalf of the National Party, to support this motion congratulating New Zealand\u2019s head of State, His Majesty King Charles III, on his coronation. Like the Prime Minister, last Saturday I had the privilege and honour of attending the King\u2019s coronation in Westminster Abbey, and it was a historic occasion in a very beautiful and ancient building. The coronation reminded me once again of that acknowledgment that New Zealanders so often make after watching a royal event, and that is that no one can do it quite like the British. All of it was spectacular, from the carriages and parades outside the abbey, to the magnificent choristers and flowers inside, and both inside and outside there was a real sense of joy and celebration. But I also agree with the sentiments of the Prince of Wales. Prince William said, \u201CFor all that celebrations are magnificent, at the heart of the pageantry is a simple message: service.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EAlmost all King Charles\u2019 life has been about service\u2014first, as Britain\u2019s longest-serving Prince of Wales, giving support and strength to his late mother, Queen Elizabeth II, but he has been serving Britain and the Commonwealth for a long time. In 1952, at the age of three, he became heir apparent, the next in line to the throne. At 16, he undertook his first official royal duty and he has not stopped serving since. He has been patron or president of more than 800 causes that matter to him, and the coronation also symbolised King Charles\u2019 role as head of the Church of England. His Christian faith is important to him, but the coronation included roles for all major faiths, and that message of religious acceptance and inclusion is so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EKing Charles is also a conservationist, an accomplished artist, a musician, and an equestrian, and I\u2019m sure all these interests will shape his regency. He is a husband, a father, and a grandfather, and he has stepchildren and step-grandchildren. Like with every family everywhere, things don\u2019t always run smoothly, and his family has the added burden of being unrelentingly in the public eye. But throughout it all, his service to his late mother, the Queen, and to Britain and to the Commonwealth, which he now heads, has been unwavering. He has made many visits to New Zealand, and the royal family closely follow events here. I am sure the King understands the significance of the Crown\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori as signatories to the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EI have said publicly that I believe that at some point New Zealand will become a republic, and, should we step away from the monarchy, it will not be a negative reflection of whoever is on the throne at that time; in fact, it will be a sign of the monarchy\u2019s success in having helped shape the successful, tolerant, open, and independent country that New Zealand is today. But that is not a here and now discussion. Here and now is the celebration of our new King. He is and will continue to be an important presence in all of our lives, and I feel sure he will serve New Zealand, Britain, and the Commonwealth well, as did his mother before him and her father before that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ESo, on behalf of the National Party, I offer my warmest and most sincere and heartfelt congratulations to King Charles and to Queen Camilla on their coronations. Long live the King. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262c9eb2a2b834a689d6a7fdb66f36c66\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee046caec46340af9a07bf1cfd3f19c3\u0022\u003ELeave Not Put\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002234507a83194d4973984c39bec480c9dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234507a83194d4973984c39bec480c9dd\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f76a326881ac4916885c34b588559525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f76a326881ac4916885c34b588559525\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re in the middle of a debate. The best time to do that is at the end of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec50d1e5a26a4914891cc20daa8a2199\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022730c7732e8cf46bcad6eec8bcabb7a25\u0022\u003EHis Majesty King Charles III\u2014Coronation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000049\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4c5ca4815f34022a6c5e5def1efaf52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4c5ca4815f34022a6c5e5def1efaf52\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to stand for the ACT Party to speak to the coronation of our new King, Charles Philip Arthur George Mountbatten-Windsor of the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EHe was born in Buckingham Palace on 14 November 1948, during the reign of his grandfather George VI, and was aged 74 when crowned King of the United Kingdom and 14 Commonwealth Realms over the weekend. He was three years old when he stood beside his grandmother and his aunt Margaret for his mother\u2019s coronation in 1953.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOur King was home-schooled in Buckingham Palace until just before his eighth birthday, when he was sent to school in West London, the first heir apparent to go to school instead of continuing home-schooling in the palace. He was also sent to school in Scotland\u2014where he described it as being at \u201CColditz in kilts\u201D\u2014as well as six months studying at Timbertop in Australia. He graduated from school in Berkshire as head boy, and instead of going straight into the armed forces, he went to Trinity College in Cambridge, where he studied archaeology and anthropology, followed by history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EHe extended himself further and went to the University College of Wales to study Welsh history and language for a term, the first heir apparent to earn a university degree. He said his schooling taught him a lot about himself, his own abilities and disabilities; it taught him to accept challenges and to take the initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOur King served in the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, learning to fly the Chipmunk, and was presented his Royal Air Force wings in 1971. Later, he qualified as a helicopter pilot and joined the naval air squadron. He served with the navy on the guided missile destroyer HMS Norfolk as well as the frigates HMS Minerva and HMS Jupiter, finishing his service in the navy as commander of HMS Bronington, the coastal minehunter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAs King, he succeeds Queen Elizabeth II as the patron of the National Rifle Association of the United Kingdom, and his son Prince William will become the president in his role as Prince of Wales\u2014a tradition that has spanned back to the 1800s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had a couple of King Charleses in the past. The rule of King Charles I led to a revolution and the temporary abolition of the monarchy. He was convicted of high treason and beheaded in 1625. King Charles II, son of King Charles I, took the throne in 1660 for 25 years when the monarchy was restored. This King Charles had to rule during the 1665 Great Plague and the 1666 Great Fire of London. The King Charles spaniel is named after him. Then there was the unrecognised King Charles III when, in 1745 and 1746, Charles Edward Stuart led the unsuccessful Jacobite rising, declaring himself King Charles III, but it was never acknowledged officially. He became known instead as Stuart the Pretender or Bonnie Prince Charlie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to finish up talking of some of the little-known facts about our official King Charles III. He likes eggs and chose a quiche as a signature dish. He\u2019s a fan of Emmerdale Farm. He\u2019s taken up many causes over the years, and one that he took up was for better equipment for British forces in Iraq. Another was to expand, not restrict, the availability of herbal medicines. He has a tree frog named after him, Prince Charles Magnificent Tree Frog, and The Guardian once reported that he converted his vintage Aston Martin to run on surplus English white wine and whey from the cheese process\u2014biofuel. But it was thought that this could do more harm than good if it was adopted on a wider scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EKing Charles III has spent 71 years preparing for his coronation day. His life experiences have taught him humility, understanding, and tolerance, all while his entire life has been on show to the world. Here to serve instead of being served. ACT welcomes King Charles III to the throne. Long live the King.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022be42a882636e4622945b09d1271eee7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be42a882636e4622945b09d1271eee7f\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, I would like to extend Charles, Camilla, and their respective families all the very best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296571cb3ca504feab8eac594f1b042fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; New Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori 2; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002268f9dea120e04af39a4eda6021a9a865\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214eba818c9f84b3e8fbf9a106e816046\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002207a7a613c0e3446089e7205aafc9435c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207a7a613c0e3446089e7205aafc9435c\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2a2905f09e64e2c8fcf534e5b3cec0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4787b972f2240bbb9ee1102becd3e2d\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, ko te amorangi ki mua, ko te h\u0101pai \u014D ki muri. Ko te t\u016Bturutanga mahi pono o te M\u0101ori mana motuhake. He mang\u014Dpare amohia o te waka Takitimu. Tihei mauri ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EKi a koe e te tuahine, m\u014D t\u014D karakia whakatuwhera, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare e huihui mai nei n\u0101 runga i te karanga o te r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Otir\u0101 koutou m\u0101, taku h\u0101pai \u014D, taku wh\u0101nau, aku hoa, ng\u0101 kaitautoko o t\u0113nei t\u016Bru, o t\u0113nei kaupapa, koutou kua tae mai \u0101-tinana nei mai i ng\u0101 pito katoa o te motu, koutou m\u0101 e m\u0101takitaki ana, ka nui taku aroha ki a koutou katoa e whakamana nei i t\u0113nei r\u0101 whakahirahira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ENei r\u0101 te mokopuna a Hineahuone, a T\u0101nenuiarangi, a Hinehau, a Epiha e t\u016B whakaiti nei, tihei mauri ora ki te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[Mr Speaker, the leader to the fore, the supporters follow. The honest realisation of the unique authority of the M\u0101ori people. The elevated hammerhead shark of the Takitimu canoe. The breath of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ETo you, sister, for your opening karakia, greetings and thanks. To the members of this House that have gathered here in answer to the call of the day, greetings. Indeed, to you, my supporters, my family, my friends, the supporters of this seat and this occasion, you who came here in person from all corners of the country, you who are watching, my love is enormous for you that are endorsing this important day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EHere is a grandchild of Hineahuone, T\u0101nuiarangi, Hinehau, and Epiha that humbly stands here. Vitality and wellbeing to this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe decision to cross the floor to join Te Paati M\u0101ori was not an easy decision. But, for my wh\u0101nau and I, it was the right decision. It is time to put our whakapapa first, to return to our people, to serve and work for our people\u2014the calling that comes deep from within my puku. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI come from a long line of pukumahi wh\u0101nau\u2014hard workers, boots on the ground, salt of the earth wh\u0101nau. I was raised in the shearing sheds of Te Tair\u0101whiti and shaped at the freezing works of Whakat\u016B, Hawke\u2019s Bay, where everyone worked hard and played hard. In fact, they called Whakat\u016B the university of life. I was, however, fortunate to go to university\u2014the second in my wh\u0101nau. My late grandmother instilled in me the teachings of Sir Apirana Ngata: e tipu e rea\u2014to learn the tools of the P\u0101keh\u0101\u2014or, in my case, how Wellington worked so one day I could return home and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e17a09f35c7048be957ba11984eb6e48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. Giving a personal explanation to the House is about something in the House; it\u2019s not a general debate. Ehara t\u0113nei i te w\u0101 kia t\u016B ake ki te tuku atu i te reo mihimihi ki ng\u0101 mea katoa, kia whakam\u0101rama k\u0113 he aha te take [This is not the time to stand to acknowledge everyone, but instead to explain the rationale], and I haven\u2019t heard it. I\u2019ll give the member another chance to explain exactly what it is that she is explaining to the House. It\u2019s not about giving a speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6aa1f7447d34775883c4416f0df20a1\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. This is my opportunity to explain the decision I\u2019ve made. My decision to return back to the people was based on whakapapa and the calling home\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb01405fe224ff583ab03a880626738\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5b13390ce34b14b437a7acad18d76b\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I am very pleased to stand in this House to say I have joined a party that enables the voice of w\u0101hine M\u0101ori to be heard and not censured in this House. So I stand in support of what we are doing here. It is my opportunity to say that this House and those in this House, when we talk about a 50:50 gender\u2014I want my voice to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022579b19d3b3244e3baa2861572149e186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022579b19d3b3244e3baa2861572149e186\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But now we\u2019re getting into a whole other debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022adef8109154044d089117df69d16bfaf\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7499f1902af45b5a4c92724043ecbab\u0022\u003EEmergency Management\u2014Flooding in Auckland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00223861789c18584a04bf00a9bb5725a31c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223861789c18584a04bf00a9bb5725a31c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement on flooding in Auckland today. The upper North Island is experiencing flooding caused by severe and concentrated rainfall. In Auckland, a state of local emergency has been declared by the mayor. A red severe thunderstorm warning is in place for Northland and Auckland. A line of thunderstorms is tracking across these regions and these are likely to be accompanied by torrential rain. An emergency mobile alert has been sent to the whole of the Auckland region advising people of potential impacts and suggesting they plan travel accordingly. Orange heavy rain warnings are in place for some regions, signalling significant rainfall for some areas over the next few days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe know that following the severe weather in January and Cyclone Gabrielle, many communities will be concerned, worried, or just completely over it, so we continue to stand alongside them. Whilst the response is being led by local civil defence emergency management (CDEM) groups, the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) has also activated the National Coordination Centre. This means NEMA is working closely with CDEM groups and partner agencies, coordinating requests for information and resources at a national level in support of the locally led response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI wish to remind everyone listening that this is a potentially dangerous event. Please stay safe and don\u2019t take risks. Heavy rain can cause flooding, coastal inundation, and landslides, especially where the ground is saturated from recent rainfall. Follow the instructions of emergency services and local CDEM groups, and if you feel unsafe at any time, please evacuate to higher ground. Check Waka Kotahi New Zealand Transport Agency\u2019s website for road closures before you travel, and drive to the conditions. Please never walk or drive through floodwater and don\u2019t let children play in it. Keep up to date with MetService\u2019s watches and warnings, follow your local CDEM group on their social media accounts, and stay safe out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI know that members across this House will join me in expressing our support for the affected communities and thanking everyone involved in the response as this situation unfolds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0ed9dd1b505416b8ceed4f8e04cc0bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0ed9dd1b505416b8ceed4f8e04cc0bc\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do, on behalf of the National Party, indeed join the Minister in sending our best wishes to those who are affected by the developing situation in the upper part of the North Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EEven as we acknowledge that, other areas of the country continue to seek to recover and rebuild from other severe weather emergency events earlier in this year, including some of the same areas, indeed, that have been hit again today. The updates have been coming in recently so quickly that it is difficult to keep up with them all. There is a measure of uncertainty, therefore, about the situation on the ground, but we can say with certainty that those who have stepped up before have displayed the courage and the community spirit that I\u2019m sure will be replicated again today. In anticipation, and, indeed, acknowledging the works that would already have been done in this space, we thank them, and I\u2019m sure that there is not a member of this House who would not join me in saying that we wish them well. We ask them to be safe for their own sake, even as they put themselves in the line of fire, metaphorically speaking, to support and indeed to save others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe think of the first responder groups formally designated. We also think of those within the community who group together informally, who step up as individuals to help out their fellow Kiwis in need, and we thank them all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn addition to the threat to physical life and limb today, we are cognisant as well that there will be a severe mental health toll arising from this event, including and especially where that follows similar events having taken place in similar areas before, and we hope that support will be provided in the days and weeks and months that follow for those who suffer trauma as a result of these repeated events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy final comment is just to muse\u2014and I don\u2019t put this formally to the Minister today\u2014about the possibility that this House can respond in a legislative way that will enable orders to be made quickly following such events. Of course, that took place recently, with the support of most of Parliament, as put forward by the Government. The National Party supported those moves in urgency because we thought it was the right thing to do to enable quick action to be taken. I think I\u2019m right in saying that these events fall outside the remit, technically speaking, of that legislation, but it may be possible for the response that will be needed in respect of today\u2019s events to be included in that. That\u2019s a discussion for the future, and I don\u2019t make a formal proposal along those lines. But it seems to me that, unfortunately, as a nation, and indeed as a House, these are matters to which we will need to give increasing attention in the years that come, even as we acknowledge that the danger is very much a present one. It is ongoing, and it is also expected to pose further risk today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I join with the Minister and, indeed, would encourage anyone to follow the advice that he has given on the public health basis: follow official advice, and do the things necessary to keep yourself and others safe. We will watch with interest and respond as best we can, no doubt as a Parliament as a whole, to the events of today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225429bc7672b8469d99952225386478a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225429bc7672b8469d99952225386478a1\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in acknowledgment and support of the Minister for Emergency Management\u2019s motion regarding Auckland. Can I first start by acknowledging the situation at Abbey Caves in Northland. It is developing quickly and there may have been changes since I last checked the media, but as a Whang\u0101rei boy who has, shall we say, been made to climb through Abbey Caves by his school a few times, I can\u2019t imagine the distress that people will be feeling with severe rain and flooding and one student still in the caves. I think that our thoughts and prayers should be with those people in that situation up at Abbey Caves, just north of Whang\u0101rei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI further acknowledge the situation in Auckland and particularly in the Epsom electorate. I know that there is absolute gridlock in the traffic system, surface flooding in places, and, of course, enormous concern because of the devastation that occurred only three months ago at the end of January, or the beginning of February, when many homes were flooded, many vehicles were lost. In my recent door-knocking, I\u2019ve found that the effects of that continue right up to this day. To then have another flooding event certainly brings about a large amount of trauma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn the immediacy, the mayor has declared a state of emergency locally for Auckland, delegated his responsibilities to Desley Simpson, the deputy mayor, and I know that Auckland Council will be under very good steerage with Desley. We expect heavy rains to continue, and what\u2019s important is that people stay safe, get home\u2014assuming that their home is not affected\u2014call 111 only if absolutely necessary because there is an immediate risk to people\u2019s life or their property, and take shelter with friends if necessary. I see that there is one shelter out at Te Manawa library in Westgate, but that\u2019s a long way from most Aucklanders. Many people will be relying on friends and family, and there were so many touching examples of friends and family taking each other in in the late January flood. So you may be OK, but there may be people in your street, in your neighbourhood, in your family, in your workplace, or your friendship group, who are in need of shelter and support over the 24 hours to come, or longer if these floods are bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI know that, inevitably, this too shall pass and there will be some analysis of why this keeps happening and what can be done about it, and I just make the point that in a recent survey I did, sent to 6,000 households in the Epsom electorate electronically, I got back responses where, of those who were flooded, 55 percent were aware\u2014in fact, actually, 55 percent of respondents; almost two-thirds of those who were flooded\u2014of previous complaints about the performance of stormwater systems in their street. Of those, 35 percent of respondents had previously complained to council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI know that there will be a lot of people who will make the argument that this is proof that New Zealand must reduce its emissions. Well, it certainly should, but once you break down why people, real people on the ground, are being affected by events like this right now, the overwhelming majority of homes have actually been OK. The whole of the Stonefields development\u2014well designed, well drained\u2014was not affected by flooding. Places in the Epsom electorate and beyond, where there\u2019s been a lot of intensification and not as much investment in upgrading the drainage capacity and especially drain maintenance, are facing real challenges. That is a lesson that while we need to focus on the immediate challenge, we also need to learn from incidents like this and guide our future behaviour and policy making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, I just wish safety for those affected in Abbey Caves, for those who are affected by flooding in Auckland\u2014and for those who are helping each other out, good on you. That is always the best of Auckland and New Zealand. We will get through it, because this too shall pass. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00224581acb1031644388b3802a2efc74035\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224581acb1031644388b3802a2efc74035\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou te Whare. On behalf of the Greens and as our Auckland Central MP, I stand in support of the motion from the Minister for Emergency Management, and I actually have a few questions for him, as I understand this format allows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut firstly, I just wanted to join with colleagues across the House in acknowledging the unfolding situation and the state of emergency before us, particularly the young person still lost in Northland, and their wh\u0101nau, their community, and the front-line services who are responding to that unfolding situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAs other MPs have acknowledged, in times like this we do see what is important. We see what it is that we care about and what we focus on, and that is each other. That is our community. It is those values of compassion and care and concern for each other. To that effect, I think it is really important for all who may be listening today to know that the situation is still unfolding, and as my conversations with MetService and the Auckland emergency management bunker have demonstrated, there is the chance that weather may turn for the worse this evening, so Aucklanders and those up in Northland, those in the North Island, should continue to remain in a state of vigilance to minimise travel where it is possible to stay home but also to be very aware of the potential of slips.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, I do need to reflect on some of the statements that were put out just now by the leader of the ACT Party about how now may not necessarily be the time to reflect on climate change. As we are staring down and looking at yet another one-in-100-year weather event\u2014the several that have occurred in just this year alone\u2014I think that it is, in fact, a stark reminder of the very, very important responsibility that this House has for facing the scientific reality of climate change and for responding with the emergency and urgency that it requires in mitigation and adaptation. That is our responsibility as the supposed leaders of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI move to those questions to the Minister. Late last night, I received a call from firefighters at the front line, those involved in the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union\u2014particularly those in urban search and rescue\u2014my guys of Pitt Street station. They informed me that with consultation and discussion with their geotechnical teams, and the risk of slips, and the concern about how much water had been absorbed in the ground over the first few months of this year, it would make sense for those at the front line to potentially stand up their heavy rescue team but also to make capacity available for water rescue. I know that they encountered some issues in feeding that up the food chain and trying to get that response, and the standing up of those services and those resources, and that did not occur until after a meeting was held at approximately 10.30 this morning. So, to that effect, my first question to the Minister is just about whether he is confident or comfortable with the flow of communication and the decisions that are being made with regard to, or not with enough regard to, the needs and the points as raised by those on the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe second question was about his confidence with regard to the resourcing that our front-line responders, particularly our firefighters but also our other community and volunteer services, have. I\u2019m aware, for example, that certain trucks that our firefighters are having to respond with in Northland have real limitations on their ability to enter floodwater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo those two questions, if I may. The first is around the communication with the shop floor and the feeding up of that information to make critical decisions. The second is about the Minister\u2019s confidence in resourcing and the adequate equipment to respond to these supposed one-in-100-year weather events that seem to be continuing to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed23b4cff004292bd45ceeb608d184b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed23b4cff004292bd45ceeb608d184b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and thank you to those members who contributed to that. It\u2019s one of the many examples that don\u2019t often get broadcast where the House comes together in full support of our emergency services and those that are working hard on the ground through civil defence and in their own communities. I\u2019ll do my best to address the points that were raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI share Mr Penk\u2019s concern about the wellbeing of those that are affected by this. But, of course, we know that mental health consequences from such events don\u2019t always happen immediately and can occur over a long period of time. I want to encourage those that are struggling with this\u2014or, indeed, the previous events\u2014who may find themselves in hardship moving forward to, first of all, contact their GP and seek, of course, the wellbeing support website\u2014Need to talk? 1737 is the place to call for that\u2014and, of course, we will do what we can to support those services to assist those that need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn regards to the query about Fire and Emergency, the member knows that that is a matter for the Minister of Internal Affairs, who has oversight responsibility of Fire and Emergency New Zealand. However, I do know that the Minister was in touch with the national commander and that they have assured us that, as is always case whenever urban search and rescue capacity is required, it will be dispatched. There may be a difference of opinion around when the appropriate time is or if, indeed, it is required, but we do continue to have confidence in Fire and Emergency New Zealand. It\u2019s not just the paid staff but the volunteers who step up and serve their community, quite often when they themselves have been affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002240fe19a0f47645f5863a7ed3c4755a0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240fe19a0f47645f5863a7ed3c4755a0a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, if I may, the second question to the Minister was with regard to the resourcing for front-line equipment as well, and whether that is adequate to respond to these crises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe4e3d3fb66342778b916e2ec4e204bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe4e3d3fb66342778b916e2ec4e204bc\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Government has increased the funding to Fire and Emergency New Zealand significantly over the last five years. We do know that, particularly after the merger between urban and rural, some deficiencies in utilities and equipment were identified, and that has been steadily addressed, and we will continue to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00223fafd4d7aa8a46fc819bce006b393c81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fafd4d7aa8a46fc819bce006b393c81\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E As a follow-up\u2014if I may, Mr Speaker\u2014just to that point around greater resourcing deployed to Fire and Emergency New Zealand in particular, the Minister may have heard some concerns, particularly from those on the front lines, as echoed throughout the industrial action at the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union over the past few years, about how that may potentially be filtering down to the front lines. I wonder if the Minister has any of those concerns himself; if so, how it may be that we as a House can go about addressing those potential concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002295af99b0baa04c45bf45f85596c52246\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295af99b0baa04c45bf45f85596c52246\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E Before I was elected to Parliament, I was a volunteer firefighter myself, and so I have seen significant improvement in the resourcing in that service since this Government came in. I\u2019d like to reiterate the commitment I just made\u2014that that support for the essential services will continue under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00229a49f61bdcac4574a3bce25d8dc99f08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a49f61bdcac4574a3bce25d8dc99f08\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, respectfully, that wasn\u2019t my question. My question was about how those resources filter down to the front lines. So my question to the Minister: does the Minister feel confident with how those resources that are being granted to that organisation, Fire and Emergency New Zealand, are filtering into the equipment and the front-line staff necessary to respond to these emergencies? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f98a0de4debd43c199d7c18a56f32cea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f98a0de4debd43c199d7c18a56f32cea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I will give a little bit of leeway. This is not question time or a supplementary question, and I note the member\u2019s time has concluded, but did the Minister want to respond in any way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff66d886f7914ad0afc4d35cc0e00348\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff66d886f7914ad0afc4d35cc0e00348\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister for Emergency Management):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has absolute confidence in Fire and Emergency New Zealand. Time and time again, they have responded at very short notice to assist their communities, and, again, I reiterate the commitment that this Government has to adequately resource and support our fire and emergency personnel. Any operational decisions and specifics around that is a question for them, but we continue to support them in the best way we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c05ec40cfd446bbb280d49bf5be3e65\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, and the Minister has two more minutes to respond if he wishes to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f9a0034dde440ea32558df96725c7d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdef66cbbf36444f94c2d3a0bdefc82f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdef66cbbf36444f94c2d3a0bdefc82f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022893d018b5fa247f7aac405aeab6486b5\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212f057d84f924d0ea860fc4df7663aa2\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229ae4246845bb47c2876f94a14f81e03f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ae4246845bb47c2876f94a14f81e03f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. No papers have been delivered for presentation. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002241c732b12bcc4d838051716069b0f669\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c732b12bcc4d838051716069b0f669\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the Companies (Directors Duties) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Democracy For Myanmar Working Group New Zealand, and the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Niranjan Herath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224768763eb9c74c98b0c1695c437c708c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224768763eb9c74c98b0c1695c437c708c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bills are set down for second reading. No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c710b4651a4c43eeb882655bdf669a3c\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022575c53b6aac340beaaae2dfce8bb7459\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ac3f4269945497d81a9be0097f5001d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00223e7b759f937643428c0cc0a33c714418\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e7b759f937643428c0cc0a33c714418\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement, and I quote, \u201CI think overall there are some New Zealanders who perhaps are not contributing their fair share\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00222ec9a4c4f73244f4ac49be68726b7cfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ec9a4c4f73244f4ac49be68726b7cfd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f21b18608046d7a0c9becf31c6fcdd\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered the Minister of Finance\u2019s pre-Budget statement: \u201CThe Treasury has estimated the cost of asset damage from the floods and cyclone at between $9 billion and $14.5 billion, with half of that related to infrastructure owned by central or local government such as roads.\u201D, and, if so, does he think that a higher effective tax rate on super-wealthy New Zealanders could allow Aotearoa to better recover from natural disasters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022880049d49d6f47f6a7e648304abe2f95\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75b45504e5e4a8cbcb1a963c112729b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the outcomes of our current tax system, which encourages the super-wealthy to accumulate assets such as property and hoard billions to the extent that 311 families in this country hold more wealth than the bottom 2.5 million New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8a145a25b93423a93d4d03d60893885\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party set out its tax policy very clearly at the last election. We\u2019re sticking to that tax policy. We will set out our tax policy for the next election in due course, and then we will stick to that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096adebc49b0462e87d5ef48a3a67001\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement, then: \u201CThe new Cabinet will be focused on core bread and butter issues like the cost of living, education, health, housing and keeping our communities and businesses safe,\u201D, and, if so, does he agree that a wealth or capital gains tax would enable greater investment in those bread and butter issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5960bf2391e482db91c890b4093a2a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes\u2014although perhaps slightly less dramatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ad6079250a49ecb93775e5a4705573\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is it equitable for mega-rich New Zealanders, who have a combined wealth of $85 billion, to pay less than half the effective tax rate of ordinary New Zealanders, as found in the IRD\u2019s latest tax report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b7039d83ea545b7bea38d37b07480ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealanders can make their own judgments on that. That\u2019s why the research was done, and the report has now been made public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0afaa803aeb488494c713efb3d85403\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that more tax revenue from a wealth or capital gains tax would ensure that Aotearoa had a standard of living that his Government could be proud of?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215e82fe7cf9041c1bc99cc83b0dbecee\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, it\u2019s a hypothetical question that the member is asking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e989feb838149f880a2cfa4f9fe610a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00222f6591fd64b141d7b5891dd272d47b60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f6591fd64b141d7b5891dd272d47b60\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1a09c50dec048648d39607bb966ab20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1a09c50dec048648d39607bb966ab20\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the Government\u2019s action in securing a gold-standard free-trade agreement with the United Kingdom, unlocking unprecedented access to the UK market. This is expected to boost New Zealand\u2019s goods exports to the UK by over 50 percent and add up to $1 billion to New Zealand\u2019s annual GDP. The UK is New Zealand\u2019s seventh-largest trading partner and a crucial market for some of our key exports such as wine, honey, red meat, and dairy. So this agreement will benefit our economic recovery and help to tackle the rising cost of living for New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea0d943e6c946438d443a664d6e2209\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take any responsibility for the fact that according to Treasury \u201Cthe economy is tracking weaker than forecast.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c2e4e9e0fbd4860817ab6c4613d6561\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand economy is not immune from the broader economic pressure that is being seen around the globe. I note a number of countries are experiencing a lot of economic pressure at the moment, as the member will be well aware from his recent travels to the UK, although I think he was too busy running down the New Zealand economy, perhaps, to pay any attention to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222078e5d2870e42ec9d62f1cc78b207a2\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the weakening economy have on Kiwis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f554a98b24ec4826a26d75d17513b6bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: More campaigning on the taxpayer\u2019s dime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3cd6b5f2a8b4b9b96badd7b08694bd5\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014already struggling with mortgage, food, and childcare costs, and why has he ruled out giving them tax relief at the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f7c78eb12a498085fc739418d51454\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry. Is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods interjecting during a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224116388261604f10a047392669243ce0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: It was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33295950c0040b783e9c53fc6bc2785\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was. This is becoming quite common. Yeah, I\u2019m just wondering if I should escalate it up the ladder a bit. Well, you\u2019ve been warned, so stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0c1e04b3b9404baa178430f8a9640c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dc58bf497ae4fab8e0287b26a767014\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask my question again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222288e5b950a04f2e95576c82115863d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4371dba7b42497a9d1d61468d342901\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the weakening economy have on Kiwis already struggling with mortgage, food, and childcare costs, and why has he ruled out giving them tax relief at the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b61db2d7d9e4cff919b478e48248bf7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: One of the challenges with tax relief at this point is that it has the potential to be inflationary, thus ensuring that interest rates stay higher for longer and, therefore, potentially meaning families would be worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c449076470942458ee760ce7bbe48de\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that cultural competency is a prerequisite for all senior public appointments in light of his statement on the snubbing of King T\u016Bheitia in London, that \u201CClearly there\u2019s a reminder here that we can think more carefully about how we do that in the future.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0121c4bc0a4a6fb98350c659be3a07\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely stand by the statement that the member just quoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235e9c2b27a464595a16e339dc117c74e\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Will he recall the High Commissioner for New Zealand to the United Kingdom, who demonstrated a clear lack of cultural understanding in welcoming K\u012Bngi T\u016Bheitia and the New Zealand delegation to London last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a525f9c6340440b185f6946f7d3e868a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4b4b0893c541748f3ee42f0e07c64c\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider adjusting income tax brackets to be \u201Ca major tax change\u201D, or can Kiwis actually finally expect a reduction in their income tax bill at the Budget, now that it\u2019s an election year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff62b1f6183f47da8b937301fb4715b3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I just addressed that in my last question. Significant tax reductions, at this point, would likely result in higher inflation for longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd803281ed324610bd75f0e6dfd9f69a\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the deficit blown out by $2.5 billion in just the last five months, and why is the Government continuing to spend so much more than it takes in, despite record inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d73069442394a48aea94c089778ddaa\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d encourage the member to wait and see what the Budget forecasts are saying. It\u2019s not too long to go now to when the most updated Government finances will be released, but it is fair to say that the Government finances have been affected by the broader economic situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cdf29a39644bb5b19c8a357a89eccb\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is the only reason he\u2019s flirting with a capital gains tax because he needs more of New Zealanders\u2019 money to fuel his Government\u2019s addiction to spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b157477aa69349d4a3152d07d0be0f13\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I note that the member himself, consistently in the first part of his leadership, was arguing for the Government to spend more money, even after the Reserve Bank started hiking the official cash rate. In fact, in between each of the first hikes that the Reserve Bank made to the official cash rate, he made policy announcements indicating the Government should be spending more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe017997a594b91aa24e7f2e255da96\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that, in five years, Government expenditure has increased by 61 percent, 34 percent ahead of inflation, and can he give a measurable example of any Government service that is 34 percent better today than it was five years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223606a8baca2d4ce49230f7ee977bd9ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll give the member one policy initiative: there are 220,000 children who go to school every day and receive a free and healthy lunch because of the policies introduced by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe67e3d6bce4f39a8083a50e30b4883\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Will he rule out introducing a capital gains tax, a wealth tax, or an inheritance tax while he is Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c51850cf4c4463f89d9ef5c4a2572d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve made very clear commitments that they won\u2019t be in this year\u2019s Budget. Of course, the Labour Party will set out its manifesto around tax for the next election, and, ultimately, New Zealanders will decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79a5de3a37045adbd98f62483e77f95\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that Jacinda Ardern could rule out a capital gains tax as Prime Minister, yet he can\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225031641973af4351ba13a0b6129bdbc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I note that she did that in the context of a general election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dafc36aee3044a7da50db9903507cf5a\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why can\u2019t you just stop playing politics and come clean about your plans to tax Kiwis more for his Government\u2019s wasteful addiction to spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d56e10d9a5904970aeb9d423a7260105\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I completely reject the notion that the Speaker is playing politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b42b326b5544a19aa7292c9af54adbc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Cyclone Recovery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00227b5cd716fe114a25ac61acc839d2a5d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b5cd716fe114a25ac61acc839d2a5d4\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: What actions is the Government taking to respond to Cyclone Gabrielle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002276bcb4e7ca514df7b8a5608ab8b24f8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276bcb4e7ca514df7b8a5608ab8b24f8a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister for Cyclone Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E Before I start my answer, I do want to acknowledge that many of those affected by Cyclone Gabrielle are the same people affected by the extreme weather events today, and we continue to express our sympathies and we will continue to support them. The Government is continuing to take action to provide certainty and assurance to communities and regions that have been affected by Cyclone Gabrielle. More than $860 million of additional support has been committed so far, including significant investment in our roading and rail network. It also includes $75 million to help small and medium sized businesses in the clean-up from the damage caused by Cyclone Gabrielle. More than 3,500 small businesses have been approved for grants to support their recovery. The Government is supporting our rural communities through more than $73 million in direct cyclone recovery grants and funding, and some 5,084 applications for grants have been approved, totalling $57 million in support so far. We are committed to a locally led, centrally supported response, working with communities to get them back on their feet, and regions back moving, as we move into the recovery and rebuild phases from Cyclone Gabrielle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2aef476128448ba707ebc57eb9cc1d\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to support councils and businesses with silt and debris removal in response to the cyclone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbdd914c4824d01afda4085d447992c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, the Government announced the allocation of $102 million to help councils process and dispose of the debris coming from residential properties and to deal with sediment on council land to make it available to the public again. There was also $70 million allocated for commercial properties, adding on to already granted money, including for farmers and growers to help them clean up their land and return to profit. There is also funding for debris and sediment removal from whenua M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d6fbf57a0b249d48d396a286e4ce8d5\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What recent work has been done to assess properties affected by Cyclone Gabrielle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a8f76367324448be197a5951d008f4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We know that this is a significant issue facing communities and we acknowledge the uncertainty and impact that this has on people, and we\u2019re working very hard to provide as much certainty as soon as possible. The cyclone task force is working with councils and insurance companies to assess the risk status of affected areas. Three categories have been settled on, under which the future flood- and landslide-affected properties will be assessed. The intention is to complete assessments for low-risk properties in category one quickly so that people in those homes can settle with their insurance companies and get on with their recovery. Decisions on properties under category two, where community- or property-level interventions will manage future severe weather event risk, and category three, which will identify areas that are not safe to live in because of the unacceptable risk of future flooding and loss of life, will take a little longer. No decisions on properties or communities will be made without comprehensive consultation and engagement with communities, mana whenua, and other stakeholders. This is a stressful time for those waiting to hear about the future of their properties. It is important that we make the right decisions here, and I want to assure people we\u2019re doing all we can to move this process as quickly and effectively as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6461be6ef74deebbaa6a3fd138a0d7\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: How well placed is New Zealand to deal with the consequences of extreme weather events?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf33090834ba463da4a216aced0f67fe\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Treasury has estimated the cost of asset damage from the floods and cyclone at between $9 billion and $14.5 billion, with half of that related to infrastructure owned by central or local government, such as roads and rail. This will require significant planning and sequencing of resources over the months and years ahead. But we are committed to supporting those affected through the recovery and rebuild. New Zealand is in a strong financial position to support our people through these challenging times, thanks to our careful management of the Government\u2019s books. The Government\u2019s debt level sits at 19.1 percent of GDP\u2014well below our debt ceiling, and among the lowest in the OECD. We are well placed to deal with the impact of this extreme weather and any other future shocks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002233ae94ffd5c54cb996128b7a600308de\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd3c08998b434f98803592e70fe24a94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call question No. 4, it\u2019s come to my attention that there is a typo in question No. 8. It should refer to correspondence with the Ministry of Education, not the Minister of Education. So I\u2019ve asked the member, when we come to question No. 8, that she asks as she submitted, and Speaker\u2019s ruling 180/1 allows that correction to a typo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272b1e214e6194c8aab411d160683ae73\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002296e508b5a9c64e01b713017a3d661f7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296e508b5a9c64e01b713017a3d661f7e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d976ceb1314949d7b39e6a83bb874f97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d976ceb1314949d7b39e6a83bb874f97\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes\u2014in particular, the action, through this year\u2019s Budget, to deliver the biggest pay increase in over a decade for Defence Force personnel and to build on this Government\u2019s record investments in upgrading New Zealand\u2019s military capability. We have an obligation to ensure that our soldiers, sailors, and aviators are fairly paid for the critical and often dangerous work that they do, and this Government takes that responsibility very seriously on behalf of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba9cd78b7054a3b8de5ff42e6254bca\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What percentage of GDP will be spent on defence as a result of this announcement, and how will that compare with Australia\u2019s recent announcement that they will be going beyond 2 percent of GDP as they respond to the geopolitical realities of the South Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f3c9624ed64665826d6517b3c6e309\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Our spend on defence\u2014depending on how you measure it\u2014hovers at around 1 percent of GDP. Our Government is very much focused on the capability we need, rather than a spending target. I would have thought that the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers would be more interested in what we are paying for, rather than how much we are paying for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd027c51b9f462dbc1c16c01d922885\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister seriously saying that he believes that the New Zealand Defence Force will be able to deliver the level of service expected by Australians for half their budget, and could he explain what magic they\u2019ll be using?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb0d1c5918594a148302b2123e370f8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not so much focused on the level of service expected by Australians; I\u2019m focused on the level of service expected by New Zealanders. What they are looking for is a Defence Force that is well resourced and equipped to be able to respond to the challenges in front of them. That includes being able to deploy to natural disasters, as we have seen them doing in recent times very successfully. It means contributing to the international efforts that we do currently contribute to and may wish to contribute to in the future. And it means ensuring that we have the capabilities that we need, such as, for example, for search and surveillance. I note that this Government has invested heavily in ensuring the futureproofing of those capabilities, something that the previous Government, supported by the ACT Party, never did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4fae5a37c5847aaa302c5c9e24510e2\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement: \u201CIf you look at the apprehension rate for people who have undertaken that offending, it\u2019s very high. Police have done a good job of finding those people\u201D, when the apprehension rate in question for retail burglaries was only 19 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263bb72de88dc4a06b6ca46fdb4881a0e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I made clear at the time, I wasn\u2019t referring to all burglaries; I was referring particularly to ram raids, because that was the context of the question that was being asked. So, if you look across 1,100 such offences since the beginning of last year, there have been just under 700 prosecutions, just under 300 youth referrals, and there are around 200 that remain under active investigation. I think the police have been doing very good work in following up on that offending and ensuring that those who have been doing it face the consequences for their actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022925904afa4084a93acefa9647b1ba4c7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So retail burglary offenders getting away with it 81 percent of the time is OK, because that\u2019s not what the Prime Minister was talking about\u2014right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f5f42f24dd4f2080028c227f6daee8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t claim that. I do note that the work the police have done in recent years to make it easier for retailers to report retail crime, including shoplifting, does mean that police have a fuller picture now of the true extent of that activity. I think that is a good thing, and police will continue to follow up on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce8243b83e24d10b3181ad76fb7b5c7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still stand by his statement, when there were more than 3,000 aggravated robberies but only 1,300 proceedings taken against offenders last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6ed9ec57d14c3e879a1b5de8e8040b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Whether or not a proceeding takes place does not necessarily provide the full picture of the response from police. I do want to note that, under this Government, we have nearly\u2014we\u2019ve nearly got there\u20141,800 extra police on the beat. And I note that the ACT Party voted against the funding to deliver that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec55e3884c34545a1af6481b845f6d9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his 31 January statement that \u201CThe new Cabinet will be focused on core bread and butter issues\u201D, and does he believe Stuart Nash, Kiri Allan, and Meka Whaitiri have all been focused on core bread and butter issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55e63cbe9f14087a4295eea774b0a19\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes, I absolutely do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ba8587a44e4b17b118c064436f7d9e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: And what about those three Ministers that went missing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f585e1bc2e44789ae2b3157397f6dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I dealt with all of those at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a935711246b489b9e2f8daff7ebbe1f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b427ce0698b54f43830a238789dff252\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b427ce0698b54f43830a238789dff252\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What action is the Government taking to support the residential construction sector and increase the supply of housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6eb1e75a8fd4b16b4915fdc3ad6bb70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6eb1e75a8fd4b16b4915fdc3ad6bb70\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The residential development construction sector is prone to boom and bust cycles. Following the global financial crisis, the supply of new, affordable housing dropped significantly, which pushed house prices up. To provide some counter-cyclical support, the Government is stepping in to support some build-ready developments by purchasing land or underwriting homes off the plans to reduce risk for developers, which means we can continue to build affordable homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8321faf9294f868a6c340d93da059b\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government partnering with developers to continue the delivery of affordable homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdee4a93de841b8b38aba995a52a9cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: We know that we must build our way out of our current housing crisis, so it is vital that we maintain momentum in the sector as the headwinds grow. To do this, the Government is working with developers to support stalled developments in areas where there is high need for new housing through the Build Ready Development Pathway. Through round one, we\u2019ve supported eight developments across the country, enabling 144 homes in Tauranga, Hastings, and Lower Hutt. A second round which will support more developments opens next week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039abe018e35437d91cd648ffd44645e\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What other initiatives does the Government have under way to support the delivery of more affordable homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228acca100084444ecbe388b8fcf89519c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is supporting the delivery of thousands of affordable homes across New Zealand through the Government\u2019s underwrite for residential housing. Last week, I opened Ockham Residential\u2019s 117 apartment Aroha development in Avondale. Aroha, Ockham\u2019s fourth development assisted by the Government underwrite for residential housing, KiwiBuild, and our Land for Housing programme, would not have gone ahead without Government intervention. During a downturn, the Government must be an active partner with industry to secure the delivery of affordable homes, not just a spectator, and we\u2019re getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eaa383339c744179887c4c4e13a130e\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: And what else has the Government done to enable the delivery of more affordable homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2e0290ba5c42499b87f9e50459c7d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The $1 billion Infrastructure Acceleration Fund, part of our $3.8 billion Housing Acceleration Fund, is supporting the delivery of critical infrastructure projects in 28 New Zealand cities and towns. Combined, these projects are expected to enable between 30,000 and 35,000 new homes over the next 10 to 15 years. Funding recipients have overwhelmingly reported being on track with their programmes, with two developments in Waimakariri and Lake H\u0101wea ahead of schedule with their civil works. I am encouraged to report that across the country there are 71 houses complete, 101 under construction, and 635 having building consents approved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb0bdd9f7b1643b6a1d18ba0339cd1b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b24ab4adeb5e468d8726ff315a9c21e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b24ab4adeb5e468d8726ff315a9c21e4\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is she confident that all legislation she is responsible for is working effectively; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9bd7c1e6784662899b6c2150d10794\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9bd7c1e6784662899b6c2150d10794\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The member, of course, will be well aware that that\u2019s a very broad inquiry. As the Minister of Justice, I\u2019m responsible for 155 pieces of legislation. While generally these laws are working effectively, in a portfolio this broad there will always be areas that regularly need to be reviewed and updated. For example, since I became the Minister of Justice, I have passed or introduced legislation that gives police more powers to pursue organised crime, strengthened counter-terrorism regimes, increased community participation in alcohol-licensing decisions, improved access to legal aid, reduced delays in the Family Court, expanded the M\u0101ori electoral option, and improved the transparency of the electoral donations regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225960a534ec3041ad81315657f0915df9\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe there is a problem with the Official Information Act (OIA) that is leading to the long delays in replies coming from her colleague Willie Jackson\u2019s office for OIA requests, or is it more one of the culture within her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a563e8b609ae45e38cc7a86d52a4dacb\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to the first part, my understanding is that the Hon Willie Jackson is aware that a mistake was made in his office, and it is subsequently being rectified. To the overarching efficacy and efficiency of the OIA scheme, in my mind, the law itself is generally sound, and should the status of the Official Information Act ever change, the Government would be seeking cross-party engagement on any forthcoming changes to the legislation. But what I will say is that this Government has taken a very proactive approach to transparency. In particular, I note that the Government has introduced the proactive release of Cabinet papers\u2014with three-quarters of papers being released within the policy agreed by Cabinet\u2014and introduced the monthly proactive release of ministerial diaries. I also note that, in terms of parliamentary scrutiny, the Government has answered 113,000 written parliamentary questions in the last parliamentary term, compared to 41,500 by the previous National Government in their previous term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c96f51929a4dba94226cd8637854a4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe amendments to the Ombudsmen Act are required following her colleague Willie Jackson\u2019s refusal to answer questions from the Ombudsman in a timely fashion, or is the issue more a question of culture within her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295816a448882495884f13cf4ae200065\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022390ee5da3c7347b39b1f0313403c3361\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think there\u2019s an issue with the wording of the Official Information Act that allows RNZ to use RNZ tikanga as contributing to the decision not to release a transcript of her speech to that organisation, or would she say that the problem lies with RNZ\u2019s culture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0e43e4b71a494d897909c2960d5a5c\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487e82843c444049b872f4792dc1c5b0\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe the waka jumping provisions of the Electoral Act are working effectively, when it appears all it takes for MPs to avoid it is not to send in the right letter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226542a0e2b74f4ce1b6f84589adb4232f\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I do. As the scheme was introduced at the outset, it was always intended to be an opt-in scheme. The legislation is very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4729fc0a82a4d0cb7d05eefe7e27efd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00223a357e03b383439e962c37b181d015f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a357e03b383439e962c37b181d015f1\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What action is the Government taking to ease winter pressure on the health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002270c4b3f4de8f4219b045a6370188d253\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270c4b3f4de8f4219b045a6370188d253\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced the Government\u2019s comprehensive plan to ease winter pressure on the health system. This plan is being led by Te Whatu Ora and includes 24 initiatives to help support community care and reduce hospital demand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ea88d811134615be59351cd62e1d3e\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How will our new national health system help us deliver this plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa95e2a13bc14e729d7b6c719e716fe2\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: This winter, a reformed health system is allowing us to identify successful local programmes and scale them across the country, tailoring any healthcare approach to meet unique needs. Resources will be shared across health facilities within a region, with providers working together. Coordination at a national level means the health system is better prepared to respond locally and connect people to share knowledge and deliver services this winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d8851c08a7a417ba43deb33ace3e03d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Can you tell us some of the specific actions in the plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72ae22a320d4e0bbf871bfdaf1c665e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Our plan is focused on a combination of improving access to health services for people closer to where they live, as well as measures that can help manage the demand for hospital-level care over winter. It includes support for pharmacies to treat minor ailments, hospital in the home services, increased access to radiology services in the community, and community rapid response tools to lessen hospital admissions for our most vulnerable people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d81b206499447b4953d300822a835af\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How will the plan ease pressure on the health system this winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b76745956f43da955e4ac4bf068d36\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: These initiatives are being driven by Te Whatu Ora to reinforce the message that the care at the right time, at the right place is required. They will deliver health services to people closer to where they live, ultimately alleviating additional pressure on hospitals. It\u2019s important people feel confident they can get the healthcare they need this winter, and I\u2019m fully supporting this plan to deliver it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e80d24eed51403e9b117ef7fbc76120\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00221bf1c7139d5e41e0a31bad65feb3d6a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bf1c7139d5e41e0a31bad65feb3d6a9\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What information did her staff provide her after question time on 22 February when they informed her of their correspondence with the Ministry of Education about the release of the term 3 attendance data, and when did they first show her their correspondence with the Ministry that was subsequently released to me under the Official Information Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022654a4e6480054deea48aae4bc870225d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654a4e6480054deea48aae4bc870225d\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part of the question: my staff verbally informed me after question time on 22 February that members of my staff had been in correspondence with the Ministry of Education regarding the timing of term 3 attendance data release. To the second part of the question: I first saw copies of the correspondence the member is referring to when it came to me for sign-out approval under the Official Information Act. I am aware that the member has been suggesting that information shows that my office inappropriately interfered with the release of term 3 attendance data. While I disagree with that allegation, to provide greater transparency going forward I have written to the Secretary of Education requesting the Ministry of Education consider publishing a forward-looking timeline on when attendance data will be released for each term on their website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32b4846daf94949851cd419c13d3f61\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be that she said, \u201CI can categorically tell that member that the Ministry of Education is responsible for the data. I have no say over that.\u201D and then still believe that her answers were not misleading, when her staff told her that they did play a part in releasing the data after she made those misleading comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022276768ad87c6487eae9a189907c142ca\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Because I felt that my answers reflected what I was intending them to mean at the time of the delivery, which is that the Ministry of Education is responsible for the collation and release of the term 3 data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b33792a95d94084a463bcf6d8e27bc7\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to that answer, how can she miss out the last part of her quote, which says, \u201CI have no say over that.\u201D, and still believe that her questions were not misleading, when her staff told her that they had been in contact with the ministry to delay the release of the term 3 data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b0f58dd0bf4b3686f325cf6e660dc7\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve just said, because I felt my answers reflected what I was intending to mean at the time of delivery, which is that the Ministry of Education is responsible for the collation and release of the term 3 attendance data. Mr Speaker, you wrote to me following a letter from the member regarding information that was provided to her by my office under the Official Information Act. You requested that I make a personal statement to correct my answers to supplementary questions on 22 February, which I have done. You have subsequently written to the member informing her that there was no breach of privilege. I have written to the Ministry of Education asking it to proactively publish when attendance data will be released for each term so this situation doesn\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0062b771c054c38847a81aa72a0ce6f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The problem with bringing the Speaker into the House is that I have to get up and clarify things. I did not ask you to do that; I just set out that if that was the case, then the member can come to correct it. I\u2019ll give the member an extra question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbef61bff9594989ac3bf182176125e6\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can she explain why she didn\u2019t know that she\u2019d mislead the House until 1 May when the Speaker contacted her, when she signed off an Official Information Act request prior to 11 April containing the very emails showing her staff did delay the release of the term 3 attendance data until after her political announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a8f23ac338486ca6583a69baf961c0\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, those emails did not show that. I will say that the emails themselves, under the Official Information Act, talked about the data coming forward. Secondly, what I will say to that member is that I stand by what I thought on that particular day, but I stand corrected from advice that was since given to me on 1 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a732e670904da59f66b4a49a391afd\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Can she explain to this House how she doesn\u2019t believe that her staff were deliberately delaying the release of the data, when their email states, \u201CThe plan is to release it after the announcement\u2014and that announcement is scheduled for Thursday. So Friday would be the day.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a22a1f7692b4e49a9909bac9219c9c8\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Because at the time, the Ministry of Education was talking about a much later date releasing that data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c7f12734085420aa9de8c4eca4622b8\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Did she just believe that the timing of the release of the data at the same time as her political announcement was pure coincidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3696f63f80d41ac86ebfc4d9803e297\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I actually think that the data and the political announcement on the same day was coincidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06c10f8bc2b425884cc5a91e264fe7d\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Can she assure this House that her office has not played a part in influencing the timing of the release of the attendance data on any other occasion during her time as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c9c94bc57848bba4f57da2aff70596\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to other data, yes, I can confirm that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8ea6ba49bc44c78bb8e32597e09ee43\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Defence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebf656b10cdc4e478152f48519676d3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebf656b10cdc4e478152f48519676d3f\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: What recent announcements has he made on Defence Force funding? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00221c010c51b65d4082ba92395f421e0eab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c010c51b65d4082ba92395f421e0eab\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I was happy to announce that Budget 2023 will invest $419 million over four years to deliver the biggest pay increase in over a decade to our defence personnel. A number of factors have led to a significant pressure on our Defence Force. These include high rates of staff turnover, as well as an increase in calls on the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) such as responding to Cyclone Gabrielle, training Ukrainian troops in the UK, and surveillance and patrolling in our region. Attracting and retaining more New Zealanders into our defence force means we need to ensure that wages are competitive. This investment helps achieve that. We have a moral obligation, as the Prime Minister has said, to ensure our soldiers, sailors, and aviators are fairly paid for the critical and often dangerous work that they do, and this Government takes that responsibility seriously on behalf of all New Zealanders. In addition to that, I also announced yesterday $328 million for upgrading our Defence Force assets and infrastructure to ensure that we can better work with our partners to meet our commitments here, in the Pacific, and abroad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ca34b2c10ab4228a2d18f54398e9820\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: How will this investment affect pay rates for defence personnel? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d502aff0c3a24573984154b027b3ea6a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: With this investment, the pay of many NZDF personnel, including new recruits and skilled lower-ranked service personnel, will increase by between $4,000 and $15,000 from 1 July. Ninety percent of NZDF personnel will now be paid at, or close to, market rates for comparable roles, and this will go a long way to address attrition issues and make defence a career of choice. This increase is four times greater than any previous defence remuneration boost since 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214576c2ba8bf43c58196898f465a68d4\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What will this package provide regarding defence housing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605fb4b4821a47f789fee807f2383b84\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Many personnel in the NZDF and their families are asked to move between bases to serve, and it\u2019s important that the housing provided is suitable to support them to do their jobs: $85.5 million will go towards the renovation and modernisation of 13 houses at Linton, \u014Ch\u0101kea, and Burnham, and a significant investment of 50 new houses at Wai\u014Duru to continue the Government\u2019s commitment to progress the commercial redress partnership in the Ng\u0101ti Rangi Claims Settlement Act 2019. Providing housing that is safe, futureproofed, and fit for the needs of personnel at individual camps and bases will ensure that personnel are healthy and well positioned to perform their roles effectively when and where we need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0c84c917cf4272b44c8fa76b4a7a37\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What will this package mean for upgrading defence equipment and infrastructure? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adebf733a3654fd899096c8141fa30f0\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s important that New Zealand has the personnel and equipment to play our part in supporting global peace and security. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing $90 million for a new aviation fuelling facility at \u014Ch\u0101kea to support our new P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, and $59 million to extend the life of our two Anzac class frigates through to the mid-2030s. In addition, we\u2019re also investing $93 million to provide world-class communications systems to meet the most recent international interoperability and security standards, and to ensure secure communication with our partners on our frigates and our new Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles. This will allow for the state of the art voice and data transfer on encrypted platforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225097317c7f604220ba5e5e216c7309da\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002272e66f729d544fa09baacc068c183235\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e66f729d544fa09baacc068c183235\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Why did a mental health patient wait 94 hours in the Auckland Hospital emergency department in late March, and how much has been spent of the $27.45 million announced for crisis mental health services in Budget 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022800d31977881468baf9f01ac9940a046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022800d31977881468baf9f01ac9940a046\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, the head of the hospital has apologised to these patients, and I agree that this kind of experience for patients is unacceptable. To the first part of that question, I am advised that the patient arrived at a very busy time in the emergency department and for the acute mental health inpatient service. A suitable bed was not available and the patient was not well enough to be discharged at the time. The staff of the hospital searched tirelessly for a bed until they found one. In the meantime, this patient was assessed and treated by staff in a bed in the short-stay unit. To the second part of the question, Budget 2022 included a specialist mental health and addictions services package within which is the delivery of eight community-based alternative crisis services across a mix of small, medium, and large areas of New Zealand. Of the $2.5 million available this year, the estimated spend at 30 June will be $825,000. The commencement of the spend has been slightly delayed, but I am advised that five services are due to begin in June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215e75ced634c496aa100e0ba59d92992\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister saying, on one hand, mental health patients are waiting up to 94 hours in emergency departments and, on the other hand, of the $27.5 million announced for crisis mental health services, less than $1 million of that has been spent, and can the Minister tell the House what the connection between those two is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224afeb5eb0d7d49038dea90c4f4a7a710\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not for me to tell the House what that member thinks the connection between those two things is, because, of course, it is not clear that that patient would have been suitable to move to a community setting. However, I am clear that those services were part of a budget that spending for that rolled up over time, and those services are due to start in the coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3224a1d8348457cbd019bc124505fbb\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: How will we ever know whether that patient would have qualified for that crisis mental health service, when the Minister has admitted the Government has failed to spend the money promised on that initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22631f38aaa47d798412c9b2da66340\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised the services will be stood up in June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb53b1a79904f27ab8adbc0f1cf6125\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: So how will the service that is going to be stood up in June help a patient that waited for 94 hours in an emergency department, that was described by one health professional as the longest wait time for a mental health patient ever in New Zealand\u2019s emergency department, help that person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65418c90e1749dc8b4194bb500bf597\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the member\u2019s frustration with that situation and I have also said that it is unacceptable. But that member makes an assumption about the clinical needs of that patient that neither of us are in a position to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d875849d703b4602ae243222dcf2863d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u002286733e65e7e64f43bb6368c0ec605a87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286733e65e7e64f43bb6368c0ec605a87\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What advice has the Commerce Commission issued to help reduce costs for Kiwis when shopping?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002222e8e09b7b524d9bbc07facab3d19a2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222e8e09b7b524d9bbc07facab3d19a2c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The Commerce Commission says Kiwis can take steps to avoid retailer credit card fees, and retailers should be more transparent about how consumers can do this. The commission is concerned that many people think they have no option but to pay the surcharge at the end of their transaction. Usually, this is not true. You have the option of inserting or swiping your debit or EFTPOS card rather than using the contactless function, and this should not incur a fee. The Commerce Commission believes consumers should have the informed choice of which payment method best meets their needs and budget, and it is taking action accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022579fc2f8d90047ee9f1695803a5d544b\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s going to solve the cost of living crisis!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225715140321b479eac838804aed91b4b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Bayly will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d7a390632b4509a612838f01f1da18\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw\u2014and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110cb8cf59794f57a5b6be9684be2218\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What action has the Commerce Commission taken to support consumers in this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c40de941d0704c448da7c6090ca5a887\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: The Commerce Commission is reminding businesses that any surcharges must be clearly disclosed and any reasons for the surcharge must be accurately described, to avoid breaching the Fair Trading Act. It also noted that businesses should contact their payment service provider if they do not clearly understand the costs they are paying. Most importantly, the levels of the surcharges should not be in excess of the costs of accepting the payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2a4123681654634836bd30adaa15228\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the commission taken to tackle problematic practices by retailers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d46448b19d2c4fbd8fff2a8dad75eb5b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Lots. The commission has published materials to assist merchants who are surcharging to do so appropriately and to ensure consumers know their options. The commission has also written to a number of large merchants, raising concerns about the level of their surcharges. In addition to their work with merchants, the commission has published an open letter to payment service providers to set its expectations that merchants impose surcharges only in a transparent and fair manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a3168bc81d49c3840c5c4ba729e34d\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What should Kiwis do when paying at the store if they are concerned about payment surcharges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dae7f57555d448c8bdf06d4d518edc1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Kiwi consumers should expect that their payment options at the terminal are transparent and fair. If it is unclear, they should ask what surcharges are being added to their purchase and whether there are any other payment options with lower or no surcharges. Kiwi consumers can also expect both retailers and their payment service providers to ensure fair and transparent options for payments and should speak up when they have concerns. I am also encouraging retailers and payment providers to follow the commission\u2019s guidance. When this happens, consumers should start to see some surcharges at the checkout reduced\u2014good news for Kiwi shoppers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226115b61073c4484fafaa18e54eeea587\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022eafaa1e2a68e4212928ea41ee8d93597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eafaa1e2a68e4212928ea41ee8d93597\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CIt is my view that New Zealanders feel safer\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00226b5d28b7d9f348d2a750c1bbb816e1c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b5d28b7d9f348d2a750c1bbb816e1c8\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my full statement\u2014and quote\u2014\u201CIt is my view that New Zealanders feel safer within a Government on track to deliver 1,800 extra police.\u201D The member has wilfully omitted the second half of my sentence. As Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e6d4460b2241628c5319352131edbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You cannot say that; that\u2019s tantamount to saying someone is lying. The Minister will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b75621f8f4e942bd8c1c622e0dc279ae\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abdd99814752456babe6065008167841\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I take it the answer\u2019s over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b980c55a3746aa906f556625002b19\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Can I take an extra\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222735864330f1454da37bd58dc57a3b11\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll give the member an extra two questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022690f23245c2d43ec97690d158e7e3362\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you, Mr Speaker. Does she think the 33 percent increase in violent crime makes New Zealanders feel safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e51f367d184c039bfe5a23da4139f6\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I continue to work as Minister of Police to make sure that our communities are safe in three main areas: by backing our police by having 1,800 extra police officers; by making sure we focus on retail crime by delivering fog cannons and extra security measures; and, thirdly, by addressing youth offending with specific programmes in those areas to make sure we address the underlying drivers of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0cd8edf16147fa9a36cc9965f00d1f\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that the 1,800 police are making Kiwis feel safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fda4d8ff487947b98b4cbbf648420a25\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me be clear: as Minister, I am committed to making New Zealanders feel safe by tackling crime. That is quite different from what the member said in the statement. Oddly, the member appears to be suggesting that New Zealanders feel safer with fewer members of the police on the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edba3a9f7a57400287338f711ca91fc2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think a 551 percent increase in ram raids makes shopkeepers and their employees feel safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b498dea9b4284d779ee1a520202f5f0e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: One ram raid more is always one ram raid too much. I will continue to work by resourcing our front line adequately, by making sure the retail crime prevention scheme is focused on making sure those measures are in place, and also the backing up of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment scheme which enables retail providers to have access to things like a fog cannon quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022229b5f3f2f4c411fbf333a63e4913bd6\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that a 61 percent increase in gang membership is making New Zealanders feel safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279eacb90f2424fdab626ae3be5358048\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I continue to make sure that New Zealanders feel safer by making sure our front line are resourced adequately. The 1,800 additional front-line police officers also include 700 police officers specifically dedicated to organised crime, which means operations like Cobalt can continue to deliver outcomes like 35,000 charges specific to gang members and organised crime\u2014far greater than any achieved under previous Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acde2f5ca154c3f933bb3a8f72e19c7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Have ram raids gone up or down since she became Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc0f4dec83d1434dba62cbd5cd343760\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I couldn\u2019t hear the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adafdb7a316e4898b2240959b44496f5\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Have ram raids increased or decreased since she became police Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229111aec5bdaf456b8e1316a5f347068e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Ram raids increased into August last year and they peaked at 119. That has continued to track down. As I\u2019ve said before, one ram raid is always one ram raid too much. I will continue to make sure we reduce retail crime by making sure our front line is adequately resourced and also by making sure retail owners have the security measures in place they need to keep safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe91f64c7cd4833bc820b5083b293c2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The question was very specific. It was: have ram raids increased or decreased since she has become Minister of Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fc0a4d6e9140179f2fc9db63574687\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all right. The Minister did go back to before she was Minister, but, in doing so, I believe it has been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c2031d89644caebbd07ca0781407fb\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any parties that voted against firearms legislation that would\u2019ve made it harder for gangs to get hold of guns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b64db7f23de4ab6ad019ebaa74cbf94\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am, and I\u2019d like to continue by saying we\u2019re going to work collaboratively right across this House when we have a firearm registry. I\u2019m keen to be talking with members of other parties about how we can make sure we keep firearms out of the hands of those organised criminal groups and enable our legal firearms owners to have a safe and smooth pathway on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f46014b7c1a44802b020f27186ca23bf\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d21fe82208d48c5a843672555b01694\u0022\u003ESevere Weather Event\u2014Northern Aotearoa New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022588eb512b2de42ebba67c13985b864f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022588eb512b2de42ebba67c13985b864f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the severe weather event currently unfolding in northern parts of Aotearoa. The weather is not a matter for which there is ministerial responsibility. The application is declined. I would remind members of Speakers\u2019 ruling 198/6, made by successive Speakers going back to 1984, that every statement as an urgent debate application must be authenticated. Applications received without authentication are declined on that ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0356ba884d74424bb9c6a9d8ead5642\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1abd6243c074b28afb12e1c96c80e8f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000305\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 May on the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea03133e33dc4a8183979fd85e55e29c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea03133e33dc4a8183979fd85e55e29c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. This is the debate on the financial position of the Government and the annual reviews of departments, Offices of Parliament, Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises as reported on by select committees. There are three hours, 45 minutes remaining for this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EStanding Orders 356(2) and (3) have been set aside, so there will be no sector-specific debates. Instead, specific Ministers will be available each day to respond to specific portfolios. The Government has indicated that the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Health, and the Minister of Education will be available today to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ETime for this debate has been allocated to parties on a proportional basis. Each debate will be led off by the chairperson or another member of the committee that considered annual reviews most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolios. The Minister of Justice is now available for one hour to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b70a2d3258f43e98545d43b1a2cfac7\u0022\u003EJustice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u002273efb658811946e68d16ca947d6855ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273efb658811946e68d16ca947d6855ca\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and it\u2019s a pleasure to kick off this debate on the justice annual review. Before I do, as a member of Parliament for Upper Harbour in Auckland\u2019s north-west, I do also want to acknowledge that there are many people going through what is a very difficult evening, and also to acknowledge our emergency responders, who will no doubt be busy this evening as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI do want to thank the committee members for their engagement during the annual review, to thank the clerks, and also to thank Mr Kibblewhite and his team for the robust discussion we had with the Ministry of Justice staff. I want to also recognise that this is a complex area of policy that often does require a careful balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWe heard through the review process that in April 2022, the ministry created a new sector directorate, and the aim of the directorate is to strengthen the ability of the justice sector to collaborate and align strategy, performance, and investment. The directorate is leading work on a cluster approach to Budget bids. It also supports the justice sector leadership board, which is composed of the leaders of six justice sector agencies and is chaired by the Secretary for Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWe heard in the review that in March 2022, the Government established Te Puna Aonui, which is the interdepartmental executive board for the elimination of family violence and sexual violence. The Ministry of Justice hosts Te Puna Aonui and a significant part of its work is to empower and support community groups and providers that are already working toward the goal of eliminating family and sexual violence. We look forward to seeing the outcomes framework for the programme, which will track the achievement of outcomes in June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EIn terms of access to justice, we heard how, in Budget 2022, the ministry received funding for appointing more interpreters and to support the engagement of specialists to produce medical reports, mental health assessments, and other information to support the courts. The ministry noted that these additional resources improve access to justice by helping parties to present their cases and tell their stories in court. Also, the Secretary for Justice and the Chief Justice have partnered to support the development of the national strategic framework for improving access to civil justice in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWhile we did note that there have been some delays in accessing the courts, we discussed with Mr Kibblewhite\u2019s team the Criminal Process Improvement Programme (CPIP), which is a cross-agency effort to reduce the backlog in the criminal justice jurisdiction of the District Court by establishing best-practice court procedures. The programme is led by the judiciary, the Chief District Court Judge chairs its steering committee, and it\u2019s managed by the ministry. In October 2022, several CPIP pilots began in a selection of courts, and the ministry told us about the following cross-agency priorities and initiatives to reduce delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EFirstly, they told us about the designation of liaison police prosecutors who work with duty lawyers to try to ensure that a meaningful court event takes place on the first day that a person appears in court. They also told us about checking for bail addresses more frequently and checking for multiple addresses to reduce adjournments caused by failure to identify a suitable bail address. They also told us about the focus on providing pre-sentencing reports to courts in a timely manner to avoid adjournments during the sentencing process, and they spoke about the establishment of a sentencing-ready team at the Department of Corrections that works with all parties to a proceeding to ensure that the necessary information has been prepared and is available to the court on the day of sentencing. The ministry also spoke about the goal of the judicially led Te Ao M\u0101rama model for the District Court, which is to take the best practices from therapeutic courts, such as the sexual violence and rangatahi courts and, essentially, deploy them more widely throughout the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo, once again, I would like to thank my colleagues at select committee for robust discussion at select committee, and I do look forward to the continuation of this debate here this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228c68e9553e6f4ec59ecc2eac0743bdf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c68e9553e6f4ec59ecc2eac0743bdf5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the Hon Paul Goldsmith, just for members\u2019 guidance, if they want to make a longer five-minute presentation with a number of questions, the call is more likely to go to another member. If they want to do it in short blocks of questions, I\u2019m more likely to try and stick with one member to exhaust that member\u2019s questions. So it\u2019s up to members, but that\u2019s how I intend to chair these meetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef91ca3a9aa34706b3237723bc280dfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef91ca3a9aa34706b3237723bc280dfe\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on this debate, which is focused on the annual review of the justice ministry and the justice sector more broadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe justice ministry spends around $800 million a year on its business and the courts; you\u2019ve got another $2 billion or so on Police and another $2 billion or so on Corrections. Overall, the sector is around $5 billion or $6 billion annually spent to keep us safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve had questions to the Minister of Justice in question time around legislation\u2014and she referred to the fact that she is responsible for, I think, was it, 150 pieces of legislation, roughly; a very large number. So it\u2019s a very broad sector that touches upon the lives of New Zealanders in many ways. Many people, fortunately, don\u2019t have direct dealings with the court and justice process as victims of crime, but there, sadly, are too many, but there are also many people touched, whether it\u2019s police, safety, whether it\u2019s the human rights legislation. Certainly, everybody gets an opportunity to vote for the electoral laws that we\u2019re responsible for. So any Government has to focus on what are the real burning issues that they have to deal with at a particular time. I put it to the Minister and to the Parliament today that there are, I think, four real challenges in the justice sector that I want to talk about today and ask questions of the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe first is around the very significant increase in violent crime over the past five or six years. Since we\u2019ve had a Labour Government, there\u2019s been a 33 percent increase in violent crime. At the same time, there has been only really one tangible clear target operating under this Government in the justice sector, which is to be a 30 percent reduction in the prison population. I think that all members here, and most New Zealanders, don\u2019t want to see more and more people imprisoned in this country. Prison is not a great place. But most people want to see the prison numbers reflective of what is going on in the community. Are people safer or not? What we\u2019ve seen is violent crime going up, and the number of people in prison going down. The computer says that it doesn\u2019t compute, because what we\u2019re seeing is people being made less safe and an increase in crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the first fundamental question I have to the Minister is: why is the primary focus on reducing the prison population, irrespective of what is going on in the community, even though we are seeing an increase in violent crime? And, indeed, \u201Chas the determination to keep people out of prison actually contributed to an increase in violent crime?\u201D is a related question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second area that we need to focus on is this whole increase in youth crime that we\u2019ve seen. Everybody is aware of the 550 percent increase in ram raids. They\u2019re aware of the smash and grabs. They\u2019re aware of poor old Michael Hill Jewellers being done on just about every second day, it seems, at a different place around the country. We\u2019ve all been, as members of Parliament\u2014well, certainly those on this side of the House have visited retail operators and seen the fear and frustration and despondency in their eyes, as they\u2019ve had to deal with constant harassment and smash-and-grab activities, and even ram raids, and they don\u2019t feel safe, they don\u2019t feel that their family are safe, and they\u2019re so despondent about how they can actually make a living because they have to pay for all the fixing up and the high insurance bills and all the losses that come with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the broad question in this area that I have for the Minister is: is she actually confident that the money and the legislation that we\u2019re investing and that we\u2019ve employed deal with this rise in youth crime? Is it working? Is it sufficient? My answer to her would be, no. Well, what is she going to do about it? What is she going to do about the fact that most people conclude that there are no consequences? So I\u2019m interested in some initial thoughts from the Minister on that issue, as well, and what she is going to do about that 550 percent rise in ram raids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just quickly touch on the other subject. The third big area is the massive delays in the court system, and the long delays to justice that New Zealanders are facing. So one basic stat I\u2019d ask to question is: why has there been a 42 percent increase in prisoners on remand\u2014that is, people in prison before they\u2019re sentenced\u2014because of delays in the system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022461579206dd44f6ba9b77eff7ea8ea50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022461579206dd44f6ba9b77eff7ea8ea50\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Colleagues in the House, first may I first reiterate the sentiment made by my colleague Vanushi Walters and acknowledge the serious event that is occurring in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and the outer regions right now. Our thoughts are with them all, as this is the second substantive event in a very short period of time. The collegiality in this House will mean that I know that many people will be concerned for the friends, their families, those businesses, those communities, and those that indeed just suffered immeasurable harm. Ki a m\u0101tou nei, ka whiua \u014Dku nei whakaaro, ng\u0101 whakaaro o t\u0113nei Whare ki a r\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E[To us, our thoughts, the thoughts of this House, are thrown to them.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETurning to some of the substantive questions and queries that have been put down by my colleagues this afternoon, I think\u2014as we do in an ordinary committee of the whole House\u2014what I\u2019ll do is just answer in piecemeal: as you go, I\u2019ll go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo starting with those three substantive issues that the Hon Paul Goldsmith mentioned just now. The first was with respect to the increase in violent crime and making the clear statement around that 33 percent increase in violent crime. I think there\u2019s probably a range of different things that we\u2019ve been looking at when we are tracking the data for why there is an increase in violent offending, particularly from that period between 2018 and 2023. I am on record as noting the police data has shown a 37 percent increase in the reporting of violent offences. The number of people entering the court for violent offending has also increased by 8 percent since July 2022, although I guess it\u2019s probably useful for this committee to also note that that is still lower than that in 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing, and particularly since the introduction of a range of reforms that came in to address family harm in 2018\u2014the commencement in 2019\u2014we introduced a raft of measures in this House to enable those that were victims of violent offending within their domestic situation, their familial situations, to be able to (1) report more easily, (2) we introduced different types of offending, and (3) provided more resource to ensure that family violence and family violent offending is more accounted for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve seen is that as the crime rates have lifted, the number of family violence offending has lifted. Clearly\u2014to us, on the evidence that\u2019s been provided to us through the data\u2014one of the very clear drivers is why we are seeing an uplift in that violent offending, offending that hasn\u2019t previously been able to be caught. I am pleased that this House had the foresight to introduce that range of remedies and provide police those powers\u2014of course, alongside other tools\u2014to ensure that we were adequately capturing the harm that is caused in the home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETurning briefly to youth crime, because there\u2019s an interesting corollary there. Yes, I think it\u2019s very clear that we can see\u2014whether it\u2019s through ram raids or other types of offending\u2014we\u2019ve seen a substantive increase by children and young people when it comes to particular forms of offending. I want to touch on, because the members have touched on that in this House, ram raid incidents began to increase from December 2020 and peaked to date at August 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESomething that\u2019s interesting when we start to look at that trajectory, though, of crime is that it\u2019s still lower than when we took office in 2017. What we saw over the past decade is very clear evidence that shows youth offending is tracking downwards over the past 10 years. It continues that downward trajectory until around just after COVID, and then we see that sharp increase. We\u2019re not yet up to those rates where we were in 2017 and prior to then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOne of the questions that the member asked this afternoon was whether or not we could be confident that the investment into some of the programmes and the ways that we are capturing our young people are effective. Well, I guess there\u2019s a couple of ways that we could answer that. One of the less pleasing, in my view, things that I see in the statistical evidence is that we have one of the highest incarceration rates right now for young people and children as a consequence of youth offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESecondly, what we see is that where we have trialled programmes such as the Better Pathways Package for young people\u2014which is a significant investment into whole wraparound services for young people based in their communities\u2014we are seeing a peak and then a decline in youth offending in those areas. How do we know that\u2019s the case? Because we\u2019ve got other areas where we haven\u2019t taken those same approaches and we\u2019ve seen an increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo I am confident that the measures that we are taking\u2014which provide alternatives away from kiddie kindergrounds for, ultimately, gangs and gang lifestyles and life of harm\u2014or a significant and substantial investment into young people, working with them to realise their potential. We\u2019ve seen a reduction in recidivism rates, we\u2019ve seen a more complete re-entry, we\u2019ve seen a reduction in crime, and we\u2019ve seen much more evidence that highlights that people get back into a different way\u2014a more positive way\u2014of contributing to the community. So I am confident in the ways that we have been trialling and managing ways of dealing with this incredible peak in youth crime post the back of COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOn the third issue my colleague raised\u2014it was on court delays\u2014I guess I\u2019ll just make a brief comment there, and then I\u2019ll come back and\u2014let\u2019s just answer as we go through. But a couple of things I\u2019ll note there: that as a justice sector that was funded for multiple appropriations at the last Budget, there were four key priorities for that cluster of those justice agencies: Corrections, Justice, Police, and there\u2019s a few others, including the Serious Fraud Office and Crown Law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo the four priority areas there were the reduction of delays, a real focus on remand, increasing support to victims, and then one which was more about the internal way that those agencies operated. Most of the remand increase in the last year is due to an inflow of serious cases as opposed to delays\u2014that\u2019s what the evidence is showing us\u2014but I will accept there\u2019s certainly more work to be done there and we\u2019ll engage throughout the course of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00228f365848cfe04f80a631211f50ba2273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f365848cfe04f80a631211f50ba2273\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister Allan, just in response to one statement that you\u2019ve made there in answer to Mr Goldsmith\u2019s question. You referred to the highest incarceration rate of juniors, or youth, is held by New Zealand amongst the world, and I just wonder, please, if you could explain that to me, because we don\u2019t incarcerate our youth; we put them into youth justice facilities. My understanding is that the majority of the youth are walking out the back door while police are still trying to sign over the paperwork at the front door. So if you could just explain that for me, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMy second question, Minister, is around the \u201Cstrangulation fund\u201D. In the last Budget allocation, 2022/23 financial year, $3.2 million has been allocated to a \u201Cstrangulation fund\u201D for supporting the victims of strangulation. But as at 5 April this year, only $369,697 of that $3.2 million fund has been spent. Could you please explain why there is such a shortfall? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022c08338657df34285a0dd6f2b045c7460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c08338657df34285a0dd6f2b045c7460\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. With respect to that first question from the honourable member Nicole McKee, first, let me be clear: look, I don\u2019t mean to make any insinuations about global or world data, so I\u2019m not drawing a corollary or a comparison there. What I am, though, stating is that right now we have children and young people who are remanded in custody. The statistics that we have is that currently in New Zealand there\u2019s 1,101. That\u2019s up 37.8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223baba545156749888a35d1e8c0029692\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Less than 18 years old?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8720336222480e9fa986e70ddcce48\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Children and young people, so, yes, that\u2019d be 17 years and younger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6dc516bc05143768398144b1c0fc59e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6dc516bc05143768398144b1c0fc59e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If I may, just in referring to these annual review reports out of the Justice Committee, there are two things that I\u2019d like to discuss in my contributions this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe first is around the priorities and targets for the justice sector, as has been raised by the members, particularly the discussion about reducing the prison population by 30 percent, and the second is on the prioritisation of police responses, which obviously there\u2019s been much media commentary on. To that effect, it\u2019ll come as absolutely no surprise to the Minister that I have one area where I think there could be far better policy settings and, therefore, far better outcomes and efficacy to actually have policy in place, which then results in far better investment and far better outcomes for all of it. And that is, of course, in the tweaks that are available to her to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe have a breakdown from the New Zealand Drug Foundation, which pulls apart the budget, and estimates that we spend approximately four times more money on criminal prohibition of substances than we do on harm- or health-based interventions and approaches. And to give some context to the kinds of outcomes that this results in, we know, for example, based on both police data but also the New Zealand Health Survey data, that we have continued to have increasing seizure of, for example, cannabis crops. Yet cannabis consumption in this country has continued to increase to the effect that we now have 635,000 New Zealanders per year consuming cannabis annually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThen we also have some of those harm- or health-based interventions, the likes of Te Aro Oranga, which I want to acknowledge the Government\u2014having collaborated on it last term, in particular\u2014expanded, but none the less it\u2019s not available across the whole country. It is, of course, the methamphetamine programme piloted, actually, initially in the final year of the then outgoing National Government, which we have complete and comprehensive data on, showing us that for every dollar invested, we have a $3 to $7 return, which is a 37 percent\u2014if I believe correctly, off the top of my head\u2014reduction in criminal offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, to that effect, I just wanted to reflect on some of the questions that I\u2019ve also asked the Minister through the parliamentary written questions. Here we have, despite those changes to, particularly, section 7 of the Misuse of Drugs Act, which, of course, formalised police discretion\u2014we saw that, sure, there has been a decrease in the number of people who are going through the carceral system and ending up interacting with the police as a result, but none the less those numbers and those figures do remain particularly high, particularly when we\u2019re talking about cannabis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, I think it would be useful to put on Hansard this afternoon that the number of people convicted of charges relating to possession or use of cannabis alone just last year was 1,111 New Zealanders. Obviously, I think it\u2019s really important to put that in the context, again, of the 635,000 New Zealanders who do consume cannabis annually. We also see, again related to that point around the Government\u2019s prison population aims\u2014that\u2019s in response to my written question 11595, for those following along at home\u2014that 180 New Zealanders were sentenced to imprisonment for cannabis possession alone just last year. So I guess my question to the Minister, in relation to, particularly, the annual reviews here and, as I\u2019ve reflected on, the policy settings which result in the types of investment that we make and therefore the outcomes that we get, is: when do we stop doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI totally, totally acknowledge the fact that the Government has made some moves. I\u2019ve worked with them very closely on them\u2014the likes of that section 7 police discretion change. I know that the Minister is potentially going to bring up the fact that we had the cannabis referendum. Again, we\u2019ve had this debate many times over, where we had a specific proposed regulatory regime for one substance, and I think what that debate showed us is that the status quo is actually untenable, because even those who were on the opposing side of that referendum were unwilling to say that people should continue to be ushered into the prison system, into the criminal justice system, as a result of that low-level drug consumption in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: when will we see that shift away from this expenditure, which is a waste of money? You know, every single year now, I continue to do these written parliamentary questions which show that we spend the better part of $1 million on sending out cannabis choppers into the skies. We seize more cannabis, yet we continue to have those really high consumption rates. There are far better ways to do this. I know the Minister knows it. So I\u2019m really interested to see and to hear where those priorities may lie, particularly when it comes to the allocation of police resources and time and the opportunity to decrease our prison population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0d2586c01f44cb1b92ae4892718461f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0d2586c01f44cb1b92ae4892718461f\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her questions. Probably a couple things just to note at the outset, which probably colour the way that I\u2019m about to respond. First, as the member\u2019s aware, the Misuse of Drug Act is administered by the Minister of Health, so no doubt she can answer some of those responses there. With respect to responsibilities for the police, you\u2019ll be able to direct your questions to my colleague the Hon Ginny Andersen. Remand reduction: whilst not squarely within my portfolio, I think it\u2019s useful just to touch on that, because it is part of the broader justice sector priorities, but she could probably ask a more pointed question to my colleague the Hon Kelvin Davis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThose things aside, I think, with respect to the discretion that was introduced\u2014the section 7 discretion for those in possession of cannabis\u2014as the member\u2019s rightly noted in this Chamber, as provided by us to you, we\u2019ve seen a substantive reduction in those who have been incarcerated for cannabis possession charges from 2012 through to 2022. In 2012, there were approximately\u2014well, there were 391 people who had been incarcerated for possession of cannabis. That has reduced now to, this year, being down to 180. I note the member\u2019s comments about the broader charges that relate to\u2014but as she is well aware, the outcome of those determinations, when we collectively introduced those laws, was that we would provide those front-line officers with that discretion. And we can see that being exercised with the reduction in cannabis possession offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWith respect to this annual Budget, it\u2019s suffice to say that there was not a specific stream funded through the justice portfolio dedicated to drug reform. As the member rightly notes, that was an issue that was substantively canvassed between the years 2017 and 2020, which resulted in a referendum, the outcome of which has bound this Government during this term to the work that we will commit to do on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe next point I probably think I\u2019d like to make is, however, with respect to the way that we have seen a shift in the way that those that have found themselves within the justice system as a consequence of addiction due to alcohol and drugs. I want to highlight two things. One is that we\u2019re seeing the culture within those courtrooms, as a consequence of Te Ao M\u0101rama and programmes like the alcohol and other drug treatment courts that we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adcbd300d55c4fa3b6c32c91685c1d51\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for acknowledging my work there, bringing that in. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cfb0fcc7e64073b8dbd57998a090a3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very good work. I will\u2014I will acknowledge that because, having sat through those hearings with those people that have participated, Judith Collins\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a9f64fe27e413db3c22d46317cfb71\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a6ed918f82e42c1b9e031bfa71a0686\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying. I\u2019m acknowledging you, so it\u2019s a commendation to you, because I\u2019ve seen the profound impact when I\u2019ve sat through those courts of what it is to deal with those that have needed support and to be dealt with in a way that where the health concerns of the people are at the forefront. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve seen through those courts, and particularly through the outcomes evaluation and cost-benefit analysis of the Wait\u0101kere and Auckland courts in 2019, was relatively large offending reductions within two years of entry when compared with match offenders: 23 percent less likely to re-offend for any offence; 25 percent less likely to be imprisoned as a result of their reoffending. Reoffending and re-incarceration is reduced more for graduates than early exiters, and the cost-benefit ratio average of 1.33 means they\u2019re to break even. But many other potential benefits were not able to be costed. What we are seeing, though, is a really positive outcome in these types of alternative ways of dealing with those that suffer from alcohol, drug, and other addictions and afflictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThat, I guess, sits at the nexus, or underpins the result that\u2019s been led out by the judiciary with respect to Te Ao M\u0101rama: doing things differently in that court context, bringing community to the table to play a larger role in ensuring reintegration, rehabilitation of those that come through the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd0ab098c6484104b9b4350630ee121f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd0ab098c6484104b9b4350630ee121f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We\u2019ve heard from the Green Party, and it reminded me of the fact that it is the Green Party policy that when somebody has a warrant out for their arrest and they\u2019re on the run, we should not stop paying them benefits. I\u2019d be interested to know whether the Minister thinks that that would be helpful from an overall point of public safety. You\u2019re on the run with a warrant out for your arrest for a violent crime\u2014for murder or a sexual crime, or something like that\u2014but we should still get you your benefit: I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s view on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe Minister did refer to the question of prison population. We did have the benefit of the long-term insights from the Ministry of Justice on the prison population, and it did refer to the fact that the New Zealand prison population was mainly, predominantly, in there for serious violent and sexual offences. Actually, the number of people in New Zealand prisons for drug offences was relatively low in international terms, and falling\u2014and, obviously, for property crime, it was relatively low. The vast majority in prison are in for serious violent and sexual offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut there has been a dramatic drop in the prison population from the moment of the entrance of this Government in late 2017 - early 2019, where you will see a 37 percent drop in the sentenced population in our prisons\u201437 percent. A colossal falling away of people in prison for sentenced offences since 2018, and that is being driven, so the officials said, by\u2014it reflects police and judicial practice and the greater use of community-based sentences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the question I have for the Minister is: what does she think has driven that dramatic change, with the change of Government and the 37 percent drop in prisoners, given the fact that the majority of people in New Zealand prisons are there for serious sexual and violent offences? And we know that there has been a 33 percent increase in violent crime since the Government took office in the same period. There\u2019s been a 140 percent increase in serious assaults during the same period, and there\u2019s been a 550 percent increase in ram raids. There has also been a 61 percent increase in gang membership and\u2014I\u2019ll give you one more stat\u2014a 51 percent increase in gun crimes by gang members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo you\u2019ve got these two things going on: a significant increase in violent crime, which is making people feel afraid in their homes and in their communities and is creating many, many more victims of crime, and, at the same time, we\u2019ve seen this dramatic 37 percent drop in the number of people in prisons because of a direct change in police and judicial practice. What I want to know is what\u2019s driven that change, and my hunch is that it is the single goal that this Government has, which has been to reduce the prison population, irrespective of what\u2019s going on in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to get a better sense from the Minister as to what she thinks has driven that change and what responsibility she takes for her Government\u2019s action in that, and whether she takes some responsibility for the overall increase in violent crime that she\u2019s seeing. Obviously, it\u2019s the people who are perpetuating the acts of violence who are primarily responsible, but in terms of overall justice policy, is she concerned at all about those two diverging statistics that we\u2019re seeing? Like I say, we have a 33 percent increase in violent crime, big increases in serious assaults, and a host of other gun crimes and a host of other issues but also, at the same time, from the moment this Government took office, there was a dramatic falling away in the number of people in prison for sentences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022093f00f5a471469494d66179cc52147b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022093f00f5a471469494d66179cc52147b\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Probably the first thing I would like to state just on record is that\u2014and it goes back to my primary answer when we commenced this debate and discussion this afternoon\u2014police data shows that there has been a 37 percent increase in reporting of violent offending. That\u2019s not what we\u2019re seeing flow through the system in terms of additional uplift in terms of prosecutions, but the reporting has increased. So we look to: why has the reporting increased? I mean, people can make mockery of that, but we\u2019ve invested a lot of money and time and energy into enabling people to be able to report violent crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe biggest and most substantive investment in this area, as I discussed at the outset, was with respect to violent offending within the family environment, one of those types of crimes that tends to be\u2014and has gone for far too long\u2014under-reported, and that\u2019s what was coming through from the New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey. That was one area that was always substantively under-represented. As we\u2019ve seen the level of reporting go up in violent crime, in violent offending, there is a direct correlation with the increase in reporting of family violent crime. So, I guess, just to go back to that start part, that shows that the focus that we\u2019ve had is working, because we are getting further people engaging in reporting areas that have previously been under-reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe number of people entering court for violent offences\u2014again, just for the record so that\u2019s correct\u2014has increased by 8 percent since July 2022. If we come over to the decrease in the prison population\u2014because the member\u2019s proposition is that violent offending is going up, violent offenders in prison are going down; that\u2019s the simple proposition that the member has put to this committee. However, the statistics don\u2019t reflect that. Most of the decrease in the prison population is for non-violent offences. Prison population by type of offending: if we look at it, prison population has decreased by 21 percent over the last five years. There\u2019s been a larger decrease in the number of people in prison for non-violent offences\u201430 percent\u2014than for violent offences over the past five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo, I guess, when we are trying to draw apples and oranges, I mean\u2014and this is the challenge that we have, to look at all of those drivers. What is causing the spikes that we\u2019re seeing? Is it substantively worse or better, or what is the corollary from what we saw when we took office? We can see that substantive uplift in reporting and therefore prosecutions in that family violence environment because that was a commitment we as a Government made. We see less violent offenders in prison. There is simply a lack of evidence that prison is the best place for offenders who are less violent, and therefore are there other ways that we as a society can invest in ensuring that those people and those individuals can make a more fulsome contribution, and, if so, then what is the role of the State to enable that? Those are decisions that we have made where we have seen spikes\u2014and I addressed this in the outset as well\u2014particularly around areas like youth crime coming off the back of COVID. We saw those immeasurable jumps. It still doesn\u2019t get us back to where the crime levels were in 2017, but we certainly saw a jump. So we made interventions, like I said, through Better Pathways and others, and we saw that reduction and restabilisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo, I guess, what I can assure this House is that unlike the base sum that the member is putting to this House, that there\u2019s more reporting and less violent offenders in the prison\u2014that\u2019s simply not what the evidence is showing us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00227266e6159daa4ee7a0fbffff7f405e1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227266e6159daa4ee7a0fbffff7f405e1c\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister, I will go back to my first question, and wonder whether you could answer that, about the strangulation fund\u2014$370,000 only having been spent out of $3.2 million as at 5 April. And further to that, the better outcomes for victims package\u2014that had an allocation of $3.5 million in the last Budget allocation, and only $322,643 has been spent as at 31 March 2023. So how come it\u2019s taken nearly a year before any of the large policies were announced to go with that Budget? Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaa85d1f9b474fdc9b8b053d4fefc8c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaa85d1f9b474fdc9b8b053d4fefc8c1\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, again, to the member. Look, I\u2019ll answer that first question. I slightly missed the second part, so if you could restate that\u2014actually, do you want to do that now, and I\u2019ll respond to the first part?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc7e1b2f94f3495e8bc042c221235034\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc7e1b2f94f3495e8bc042c221235034\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The second part of the question related to the better outcomes for victims package. Why was only $322,643 spent as at the end of March this year out of a $3.5 million package, and why did it take nearly a year after that announcement of $3.5 million for any large policies to be announced in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022c87aa7242d7f4e039aa29ec2bb2d6b3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c87aa7242d7f4e039aa29ec2bb2d6b3e\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Turning to the question now. I apologise to the member that I didn\u2019t answer it when I stood prior on strangulation and non-fatal strangulation. I guess that there\u2019s a couple of ways that I will answer that. Justice had a proportion and allocation of the Budget, and there is, effectively, a very streamlined way of the Ministry of Justice giving effect to the way in which expenditure for that particular appropriation was made, and that was through the legal aid system. That\u2019s a very simple response. The other part of that funding was to the Ministry of Health to provide support and additional training, and to provide ways that could operationalise\u2014or the Ministry of Health could operationalise\u2014being able to provide expert medical and forensic witnesses. So two parts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo the second part with respect to the Ministry of Health, you\u2019ll have to make your inquiries there, but with respect to the Vote that we\u2019ve received, this funding that came to Justice was made available to support experts attending court as witnesses to ensure judicial processes are leading to high-quality decisions, and that was indeed with the amendments and the package focused around family violence. This is why that additional funding was injected into this area. Of course, the prosecution of those crimes or the provision of health specialists\u2014in simple sum, those need to be directed to the Minister of Health and to the Minister of Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWith respect to the funding for the better outcomes for victims, it was always envisaged that it would be an outcome\u2014so a re-orientating\u2014of the way that the justice system and, therefore, the various agencies that engage with victims\u2014a completely different operating model, as the member will be aware, in our justice system. It\u2019s an adversarial system where the State prosecutes a defendant. The victims in that system are, effectively, not represented, for example, by the Crown\u2014they don\u2019t have their own legal counsel and their experiences are ad hoc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAnd I will acknowledge the previous Government for their leadership in appointing the Chief Victims Adviser\u2014that was a good first step. Off the back of those reports and the subsequent inquiry by the Chief Victims Adviser, which, essentially, tasked her and others to come up with the way in which we need to step through: one, we need to trial things within the justice system. It\u2019s made up of many parts\u2014Corrections, Oranga Tamariki, Police, and many other parts there. And so what we needed to do was, one, look at what legislative changes were imminent and immediate that would lead to direct outcomes; now, secondly, look at particular pilots that people like the Chief Victims Adviser, and others as well who are victims\u2019 advocates, had been saying would make a substantive difference to the way that victims could live their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWith the appropriations that were made in 2022, of course, it was a different approach for the justice sector. It was a multi-year appropriation, so the intent wasn\u2019t to spend all of the money right away; it was to sit, to do some work, to look, and to make sure that over the course of those four years to which that appropriation applied, the outcomes would start small in terms of investment, because it was about pulling things together so that we could operationalise. As the member\u2019s aware, we\u2019ve made a significant announcement and subsequent investment into not just legislative and trials but also a substantive uplift in the support that victims can receive both through Victim Support and through the Victims Assistance Scheme that are available to victims directly as well. Those trials come into force on 1 June. They will provide a 12-month leeway. And, of course, whilst those trials are in place, we will also be looking at what the other raft of measures will be. So consider this an ongoing commitment by the Government to invest in doing things quite differently for victims, because I think collectively this House would agree that that\u2019s a really important step that needs to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002257d3b65b621d498a93f8a259f11ded21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257d3b65b621d498a93f8a259f11ded21\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just briefly touching on, actually, a point the member Paul Goldsmith made regarding the warrant-to-arrest sanctions\u2014and it is one of those that has interactions between Ministry of Social Development and Ministry of Justice\u2014the Minister for Social Development and Employment has been on the record as not supporting that benefit sanction. The Welfare Expert Advisory Group recommended that it ended. I wanted to get the Minister\u2019s perspective on whether she thinks that it has been beneficial to deprive people of income, for those who are receiving a benefit, because they have a warrant to arrest. What outcomes, from a justice perspective, has she seen as a result of that, and whether she believes the sanction actually criminalises people by depriving them of legal ways to provide kai for themselves and their children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002289c339c26e404edd9ceed6dbfabb8bf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c339c26e404edd9ceed6dbfabb8bf7\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just responding to the Minister\u2019s suggestion that there was more people with less serious offences that were being thrown out of prison, as it were, in the big reduction of prison numbers\u2014not serious offences. I just quote from the long-term study by the justice officials, saying, in terms of the big decrease in the prison population since this Government took over, \u201Cthe decrease was larger for those serving long sentences than those serving short sentences\u201D. So there was those people serving long sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the question that I\u2019d raise is that\u2014the Minister has been talking about that prison hasn\u2019t worked effectively, it\u2019s not a great place, it doesn\u2019t work. The point that\u2019s raised by the victims of crimes is: of course. And the purposes in the Sentencing Act are not just to rehabilitate the offenders who have had a violent crime or created a violent crime or created terrible victims of crime; another purpose is to denounce the act\u2014to denounce the act itself. So a lot of people are left staggered, for example, that a young man who was convicted of raping four women ended up with nine months home detention and playing home station.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister can\u2019t comment on a specific case, but she is responsible for the overall sentencing framework that allows those kinds of results. People would rightly ask the question: does the home detention sentence effectively denounce the act so that all the other young men out there understand that this is something that society doesn\u2019t tolerate? And so when she\u2019s talking about whether prison works or not, is she conscious of the role that it has in denouncing the act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESecondly, in also keeping people safe, in repealing the three-strikes legislation that this Government did, there\u2019s one area that they did in the justice space\u2014the one piece of legislation that they passed in the sentencing area was to say that \u201Cwe think that our sentences are too long for our worst repeat offenders and therefore we need to shorten those sentences somehow\u201D. That was the conclusion that they draw. But the average number of offences by somebody on a third strike was around 70 offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe point I would make is that with every one of those offences, a new victim is created\u2014or multiple victims are created, quite often. So that cycle\u2014going out into prison, going out, creating a new victim, going back\u2014is what we\u2019re trying to avoid. So the other purpose of the prison population is to keep the rest of the community safe from that small group of New Zealanders who perpetrate multiple acts of violence. So the question I have for the Minister is, while she points to all manner of statistics that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ecd4ecc489413ea4f9b3a05daa9621\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7c39e4d61f4b738e62916e7c09553e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014may relate to violent crime\u2014what did she say, \u201CFacts\u201D? The fact is that the survey of crime has shown a 33 percent increase in violent crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister says, \u201COh, there\u2019s been an overall reduction in crime.\u201D Well, yes. If the police are only doing half the number of roadblocks they had for drunk-driving, there are going to be fewer people convicted of driving drunk. That\u2019s not because there are fewer people driving drunk; it\u2019s because the police are doing fewer tests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s how it works: if you change the rules so that you\u2019re not going to prosecute drug crimes, yes, there\u2019s going to be a fall in prosecution for drug crimes. It doesn\u2019t mean that anything has changed, that the country is safer; it\u2019s just that the police have had a different approach. That\u2019s the point that the justice officials were making: there\u2019s been a change in approach. But every New Zealander who walks down the street and sees the plywood on all the windows from the ram raids\u2014and they\u2019ve seen the 140 percent increase in serious assaults\u2014knows that there is a problem with safety. The question I have for the Minister is: why does she think that that is not something that ordinary New Zealanders should be concerned about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve only got a little bit of time left, but I did also want to ask the question around why is she still\u2014is it still her policy for this Government to bring in legislation around the Make It 16 campaign, for example, as priority in terms of reducing the voting age, either at general or local government? I\u2019d be keen to get a clear answer on that. Then I\u2019ve got a couple more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00224f88b50012934f0a91a8061ce7d379a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f88b50012934f0a91a8061ce7d379a1\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E There was a broad-ranging contribution from my friend there so I\u2019ll try to address it in parts. One of the things that struck me with the contribution was that there seems to be a bit of a disassociation as to what the intent of the justice system is. I acknowledge the member\u2019s contribution that said that part of the purpose of a justice system is rehabilitation, other parts are to denounce behaviours, etc. However, the part that probably made me ponder for a second is: for us, the real purpose is ensuring that there are less victims over time. And so you\u2019ve got to approach that task in two parts. So, one, there is the immediacy: we need to immediately respond to harm and reduce that. We also have to, as good governors\u2014stewards of a system\u2014look to evidence that works. What ultimately reduces recidivism, violent criminal offending? We have to look at interventions that are made. Is it prisons? Do they work? Are they the best outcome to reduce harm in the long run for victims and, therefore, New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWhat the data shows us\u2014and that\u2019s what we have to look at; not our feelings, not our reckons, but we have to look at data\u2014recidivism rates are higher for people sentenced to prison for violent offending over those people who receive a serious community sentence for violent offending. As a good governor, we have to look at these statistics, because what we are looking at is harm in the long run for New Zealanders. We have to make sure that when we invest or we change tack, it\u2019s because we ultimately want to reduce crime in the long run. And that\u2019s what we are ultimately seeing. We want to ensure that New Zealanders can report more crime and we\u2019re making it easier for them to do so and enable that participation. But as good governors, we have an obligation to ensure that we commence with a hard and firm view on facts and evidence, not just scaremongering and fear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo that next question from the member, about the Make It 16 campaign: we have introduced and we have made commitments that we will follow through with the local government component of the Make It 16 policy amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00226c5dbd3e059846e1b88b0fc5208dea0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c5dbd3e059846e1b88b0fc5208dea0e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Part of the annual review included the Human Rights Commission, where we had a 14 percent increase in the Budget, in the revenue, from 2021 to 2022. And so a simple question for the Minister is: did she recuse herself from the discussion of that increase in the Budget for the Human Rights Commission? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9f148f5148947d8b41a6e0e370ce8e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9f148f5148947d8b41a6e0e370ce8e2\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Just very briefly putting the questions regarding the intent of the warrant-to-arrest sanction policy and whether the Minister thinks that meets the goals that she may have in terms of the Government directions, seeing as the Ministry of Social Development is opposed to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3ea2368608446b0b1d3fdc8a484e9ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3ea2368608446b0b1d3fdc8a484e9ef\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I apologise, Ricardo. We have no imminent policy decisions to make any amendments with respect to that policy around the benefits and what they receive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETo my colleague the Hon Paul Goldsmith, he may or may not have been aware that in June 2022 I had no ministerial responsibilities for the Ministry of Justice or for the Human Rights Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20548a9e44a4b858eb4b4a37a34e1cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20548a9e44a4b858eb4b4a37a34e1cd\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I agree entirely with the Minister, she wasn\u2019t the Minister of Justice, but she was still in the Cabinet and so it\u2019s still a relevant question. She may or may not choose to answer it, but I still ask the question: did she recuse herself from that increase? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnother question I have is, finally, in terms of the hate speech legislation, how much has been spent on it\u2014the development of the hate speech legislation\u2014and what are the Government\u2019s plans for it currently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00229696db412be94311be878c13f868a341\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229696db412be94311be878c13f868a341\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. To the latter question, that I don\u2019t have right at hand right now but it\u2019s in excess of $800,000 that was spent on the proposals for the hate speech legislation, in pursuit of the advancements of the recommendations from the royal commission. Where that currently sits is that we\u2019ve made a referral to the Law Commission for them to be able to provide advice, based on their expertise in these relative, delicate, and complex legal matters, and therefore that matter now sits with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThere was one other matter that you asked and it\u2019s just slipped\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf30c510fcb94bc1886522dfce4fcd90\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Human Rights Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022045b9b492bac45eb9a43292dba79f0b3\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Human Rights Commission\u2014oh, yes, the Human Rights Commission. Yes, no, as I stated prior, I had no responsibilities for the Human Rights Commission in June 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022edb8a8cb2d924666bd339aa140e2e89f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edb8a8cb2d924666bd339aa140e2e89f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of the electoral law side of the equation, is it still the Minister of Justice\u2019s view that the one person, one vote principle that we have is still in place across all general and council elections, given the passage of the Canterbury Regional Council bill, which clearly moves away from that principle? The question\u2019s relevant, as the Minister of Justice, because the Ministry of Justice ultimately gave the advice on the compatibility of that and also the Rotorua bill with the human rights legislation, which is against discrimination based on race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOn the Rotoroa bill, the Ministry of Justice came to the conclusion that it breached the human rights provision because that bill would have given greater voting rights to one ethnic group. And then\u2014rather strangely, in my view; inexplicably, in my view\u2014it came to the opposite conclusion for the Canterbury bill, which, clearly, by giving Ng\u0101i Tahu the right to appoint two councillors as well as vote in the election for all the other councillors, it gives that group far greater weight than other Cantabrians. But the Ministry of Justice came to the opposite view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: has she asked the ministry what it was thinking and how it reconciles those two opposite conclusions drawn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00226d79d229fdff4fae944d1aa7d831e906\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d79d229fdff4fae944d1aa7d831e906\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m sure that the member would be relatively familiar with the nature of these discussions, given I\u2019m sure that they would have been in-depth discussions that that member would have been a part of when making the decision to introduce this particular form of voting, in structuring the initial Canterbury Regional Council bill that provided for local body representation and for those two permanent seats of the R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu. So I\u2019m sure that he\u2019s well adept at these discussions. I\u2019m sure he would have been heavily engaged in reaching the determination that the then Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThat said, for our own consideration, what we did do\u2014and, probably, in my mind, the Attorney-General is the person that ultimately has to determine whether or not something is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, with respect to the Canterbury Regional Council, for reasons\u2014as it was said there, while there appeared to be a distinction on the grounds of race or ethnic origin, it was found this distinction did not cause disadvantage to one or more classes of individuals, due to there being no comparable group with similar status in Canterbury. It went on to acknowledge the previous National Government\u2019s prior legislation that this bill was built on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWith respect to the Rotorua District Council representation agreements, as you rightly point out, the Attorney-General considered this local bill to be inconsistent with the right to freedom from discrimination in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It went on to say that it would create a difference in voting weight between those that were on the M\u0101ori roll and those that were on the general roll, which is not the same for the Canterbury Regional Council, as the member would be aware because you would have been heavily engaged in those discussions in your previous time in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002225435a17408041bcad58c4c85a230998\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225435a17408041bcad58c4c85a230998\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister of Justice has ended. Thank you. The Minister of Health is now available for one hour to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252c4c2c6e0904a4090b419a1ea19ab06\u0022\u003EHealth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f852dde7d8cf450da374b6cf8bfe71cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f852dde7d8cf450da374b6cf8bfe71cc\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Chairperson of the Health Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to lead off the debate for the annual review 2021 for health. As chair of the Health Committee, I\u2019d first like to take just a couple of moments to thank the clerks attached to the Health Committee, thank all of the officials who worked for and with the Health Committee, and to the members of the committee for all of the mahi that goes into the annual review period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EDuring the course of this annual review, we, like other select committees, held a hearing with the then Minister of Health to cover the overarching issues in the sector, and we thank the Minister for the chance to discuss the results of those appropriations. We also held individual hearings with 12 particular agencies within that health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe were reminded during the course of this annual review that there had been, in fact, significant changes to the structure of the health sector during the period under annual review. On 1 July 2022, the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Act 2022 gave effect to a fundamental reform of the health and disability system. The 20 district health boards\u2014DHBs\u2014and the Health Promotion Agency were disestablished, and two new agencies, Te Whatu Ora and Te Aka Whai Ora, were established. The functions of the Health Promotion Agency have also been incorporated into Te Whatu Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs part of this review process, when we heard from the Ministry of Health, in particular\u2014the Ministry of Health, as a little bit of background, sets out the direction and policy for the health system, it advises the Government on funding and system settings, regulates the health system, and monitors health outcomes\u2014the Auditor-General assessed many of those functions and found that the system, in general, was working at a good level. It assessed the ministry\u2019s management control environment. It assessed its financial information and supporting systems and controls environment, and the performance information and supporting systems controls environments. All of those were found to be working good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt did make some recommendations for improvements, as to be expected, with regards to procurement: in particular with regards to information technology and with regards to inventory management. The Auditor-General also recommended that it was appropriate, at least, for the ministry to consider ways in which the health system would measure its performance following these significant health reforms. Indeed, we heard that several mechanisms had been introduced to understand whether the system was heading in the intended direction. Te Pae Tata Interim New Zealand Health Plan is one such example, as were other mechanisms, including the ministerial advisory committee, who work outside, independently, who review the whole system and the processes of the reforms to ensure that the system is heading in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOther structural changes were made; in particular, the Public Health Agency\u2014within the ministry\u2014which is responsible for operation of public health policy strategy and intelligence, and which, essentially, brought together the previously 12 public health units. We also spoke about the fact that one of the challenges with public and population health is that it actually could take many, many years to see the fruits of those labours and to see the outcomes that are sought. But we were informed during the course of this review that the focus on determining the social determinants of health, such as housing and education, and working with partner agencies was an absolute priority of this group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also note that the response to COVID-19 offered some really good models of work, particularly with M\u0101ori, with Pasifika, and with other vulnerable communities. We asked during this review process to be assured that the ministry and the agencies were acknowledging that and had learnt those lessons and were inculcating those lessons into future work, which they assured us that they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWorkforce planning came up. The director-general identified it as a really critical issue, and said that it was the number one priority across the system, and gave us several examples of initiatives that were being utilised to help in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also heard about the 16 mental health infrastructure projects that had been undertaken, the trend that New Zealanders were living longer than ever before, and the fact that the gap had been narrowed, but not by enough, between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESo, with that said, the Health Committee recommends that the annual review for health 2021 be accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022834ff00fd38b424c9f25ea9d2caa5003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022834ff00fd38b424c9f25ea9d2caa5003\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today, and I want to thank the work of the Health Committee for their diligent work in the review. And I note, in future, the process that the select committee is part of\u2014that of the democratic governance of our health system\u2014should be hugely simplified by the reduced number of agencies that report to them, and clearer performance monitoring that has been outlined by the chair of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe year referred to under review is the financial year 2021 to 2022. If I reflect on that period, having lived through it, I\u2019d say that must be one of the biggest years for our health system in so many ways. The year started with the Delta outbreak in Auckland. It was followed by the biggest ever health mobilisation in the form of the vaccine campaign\u2014the vaccination roll-out. It included the widespread transmission of the novel infectious agent Omicron in February and going into winter. All of these were sources of disruption for our health system, and, as the committee will be aware, some of the consequences of that are still in our health system. However, despite it all, the amazing people that work in our health system managed to achieve the lowest death rate of any country coming out of COVID restrictions that had similar processes to us. So, yes, it was, at many times, in many ways, a tough year, but also the achievements are ones to be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIt was also, as has been noted, the first year of transition to the new health structures, and the new entities were stood up. But, of course, as all members of this House will be aware, the process of setting up the transition to a new health system is not complete just with the legal existence of the entities and the passage of the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill. And that work is work that is ongoing from July 2022 to today and beyond. It was the year we took the historic step of recognising Te Tiriti in our health system structures. It was a year of phenomenal service-level innovation, as has been pointed out by the chair of the Health Committee, in terms of much more by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori in the context of an emergency health response, and by Pacific, for Pacific services as well\u2014all achievements that we want to continue to build on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe new health entities enable us to tackle some of the long-term challenges that our health system faces, as well as tackle some of the consequences of the pandemic response. I\u2019ll leave my remarks there and welcome questions from colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228d22bd2728754cb1a14b68a1a0a44763\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d22bd2728754cb1a14b68a1a0a44763\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to all of those who did their work around the annual reviews and replied to questions and did their very best to get us the information that we require to sign off these annual reviews, and the accountability that we have to the New Zealand public to say that we held the Government and held the officers to account as appropriate and as is required in the annual review process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI have a sequence of questions, and when they\u2019re not a yes/no answer, I\u2019ll have a little bit of narrative behind them so that the Minister can either write it down or check with officials to make it easy to reply. Then I\u2019m hoping to have a riposte back to whatever the answers may be. My first question, then, looking at the year in review, is: what was the total consolidated debt across all district health boards (DHBs) in their last financial year, and did the Government subsequently absorb that debt? So it\u2019s a question around the total consolidated debt for DHBs before they ceased existence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe second question is: which of the tagged contingencies in Budget 2022 have been drawn down, and by how much? Now, there were a number of contingencies. Some of them, most of them, had, in fact, multimillion-dollar contingencies in Budget 2022 that also came into effect during the year in question. They generally required a business case and a sign off by the Minister of Finance, and significant Treasury involvement. So I am interested to know which of those tagged contingencies have been drawn down and by how much\u2014that\u2019s question two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EMy third question talks back to consultants and contractors\u2014areas that we\u2019ve been concerned about\u2014and asks: across the whole DHB sector, how many consultants and contractors were there? Now, we know that a review was done\u2014I think Jim Green led it, actually\u2014afterwards, around about October as I recall, looking at how many contractors and consultants there were in this sector, what they called the \u201Ccontingent workforce\u201D, but it only focused on those in the Ministry of Health. We\u2019re interested: how many consultants and contractors were there across the whole sector? And we know, we\u2019ve heard figures that maybe there\u2019s 200 PR people, that the vast majority were in the Ministry of Health, some in Health New Zealand now, but just looking back beyond just the Ministry of Health would be useful. As far as we can tell from that review, there were maybe a thousand in the contingent workforce, but what is that total figure? That\u2019s question three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion four asks whether the Minister will release the independent inquiry into Te Hiringa Hauora vaccination campaign, \u201CThat\u2019s Us\u201D, that occurred on her watch and under her delegation that resulted in resignations and significant funds being put at risk. Now, this was a vaccination campaign where there were allegations that by the time the campaign got under way, the vaccination need of the target M\u0101ori audience had reduced substantially. And there were also allegations of conflict of interest of significant stakeholders inside Te Hiringa Hauora employing family and boyfriends/girlfriends of family, and a range of other things. An inquiry was held, and there was no accountability and no follow up to that inquiry. So my question to the Minister, question four, is: whether she will release the results of that independent inquiry. I think we can\u2019t just leave that out there and say \u201COh, a couple of million dollars, it was all just whatever\u201D when there are significant allegations to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion five is more specific and it was partly addressed on Q \u002B A this Sunday, but the Minister has said that there is no midwifery crisis, in written parliamentary question 29465 (2022) and then went on to say when asked \u201CAre midwifery services coping in the regions that have maternity and midwifery shortages?\u201D, \u201CYes.\u201D\u201429466. I wanted to reflect on that, whether that is a correct statement over the period of time that we\u2019re looking at under this review. That\u2019s question five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion six starts by asking: over the year, did the wait-list for those waiting more than four months to see a first specialist increase or decrease? So the target and the promise for a first specialist assessment has been four months, and it\u2019s a simple question: over the year in review, did the first specialist assessment waiting list increase or decrease?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I think I\u2019ll sit here. I have four other questions, but I can see I\u2019m coming to this point in time. So I might conclude here and, hopefully, come back for another session, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002241803aea039b4c70b8774bc4d0e7601c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241803aea039b4c70b8774bc4d0e7601c\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to point to the report from the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists that details the amount that people are spending to access dental care, and the petition that they have launched. So I wanted to get an understanding as to whether the Minister had done any work or her ministry had done any work at looking at expanding free dental care for those over 18, and, if not, I guess I want to get her reflections around the state of access to dental care in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnother point that I wanted to ask was regarding the migrant workforce in the health sector and whether she was confident that migrants coming in to fill roles in the healthcare sector could be guaranteed that they could be in areas where they pay at least the median wage, and whether that was something that she had certainty upon. And then whether, for those that may not have pathways to residency that may still be working there, whether she has concerns that that may affect retention rates as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e33b32f534484d2585aaeac2a92ae792\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e33b32f534484d2585aaeac2a92ae792\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for those questions, and the earlier member Dr Shane Reti as well. Some of the first set of questions are quite technical in nature, so we\u2019re just making sure that we have the correct data to inform our response on those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to dental care, it is an incredibly important area for one\u2019s health, and a priority area for action for this Government. My belief with so many areas of health is that prevention is better than cure, and that\u2019s why this Government moved recently to enable greater action to fluoridate water supplies. We know that that halves the rate of dental caries for young children. We\u2019ve done that by enabling taking the politics out of this debate, which was one that was subject to misinformation, and by enabling the Director-General of Health to make directives to fluoridate water supplies when that is supported by good evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to the matter that the member raised around extending State-funded subsidised dental care, there is no work under way to extend that at the at the moment, but I understand that that is an important need for people, and especially when there are pressures on the cost of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe earlier question about migrants and their role in the health system\u2014firstly, one of the great pleasures of being a healthcare worker is working in a multicultural workplace where there are workers with experiences from around the world and experiences of diverse health systems. There is a lot we can learn from our migrant health workforce. The member will be aware that there has been, coming out of COVID, an immigration rebalance, and health workers have been a priority in that, and that now we have over 40 roles on the green list with a fast track to residency, securing their ability to stay in New Zealand in return for the service they give in our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI am aware that there are some parts of the health sector where an exception has been made for the wage requirements, and that is in aged residential care. The Minister of Immigration has the ability to periodically review that over time, so that the industry has a pathway to be able to raise wages over time. But the alternative, which was the huge pressure on the aged residential care workforce when migration was interrupted, would have led to there not being able to be a workforce sourced in those areas. So that is how that particular issue is addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0d270a15da42e69475b995b2ca3ac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0d270a15da42e69475b995b2ca3ac1\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. What an important day to debate the annual reviews for Vote Health, and I think nothing typifies Labour\u2019s absolute failure in mental health more than the news on the weekend that a mental health patient had waited 94 hours in the emergency department (ED). One doctor reported that it was the longest wait in the history of emergency departments in New Zealand for a mental health patient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be very clear: the Health and Disability Commissioner has called on this Labour Government for a plan. Who would have thought that six years later, after $1.9 billion, we\u2019re getting a record for how long a mental health patient will stay in an emergency department? Why this is important is because, as we heard today from the Minister herself, $27.5 million was announced a year ago, in Budget 2022. As of the end of March, no money of that $27.5 million had been spent to date, and, in the Minister\u2019s answer in question time today, potentially only about $800,000 will be spent by the end of the financial year. That is the important context of the last 12 months of mental health in New Zealand under Labour: no plan and things going backwards. Where did that $1.9 billion go? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s interesting is that in the annual review for the Ministry of Health, when we look at question 162 about full-time vacancy rates, I would say that the biggest barrier to timely mental health and addiction support in New Zealand today is our mental health and addictions workforce crisis, which this Government has had its head in the sand over. It has failed to accept the crisis, but it has done little to actually stop the exodus out of our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen you look at question 162 for the fulltime-equivalent vacancy rate for psychiatrists, in June 2021 it was 33.9. In June 2022\u2014because that is the period we\u2019re covering in today\u2019s debate\u2014it was 76.3. In the last year of this annual review debate under focus today, vacancy rates in psychiatry have increased 125 percent. That is why people are sitting in the ED department for 94 hours. That is why vulnerable Kiwis are sitting on waiting lists. That is why vulnerable Kiwis and their families cannot get the access to the care that they need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ELook at the discipline of psychology for this annual review. The full-time vacancy rate for June 2021 to June 2022 has increased from 72 fulltime-equivalents to 114.9, an increase of 58 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ERegistered nurses for mental health: the vacancy rate is 212 for the same period. At the end of this period we\u2019re reviewing, it is 407\u2014a 91 percent increase in vacancies\u2014and we wonder why people are leaving under the stress of covering multiple roles that are vacant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is the pressure on our mental health workforce, so I want to hear from the Minister today what has gone so wrong. When they announced $1.9 billion for mental health\u2014and, let\u2019s be frank, last Budget, they announced another $100 million for workforce pressures. So now we\u2019re up to $2 billion, but the vacancy rates are increasing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThere is no plan. The Health and Disability Commissioner said on the weekend that they wanted to see a plan. The Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission, in its first, damning report in 2021, said that there was no plan. Why is there no comprehensive plan for the mental health workforce crisis in New Zealand? That is the biggest barrier to timely mental health and addiction support in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022da5c12f78971428a9a34f69f7e6c649e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da5c12f78971428a9a34f69f7e6c649e\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to pick up some further questions with question seven, if I may please, and that question talks to the surgical waiting list and asks: over the year in question, did the surgical wait-list for those waiting longer than the promised four months for their surgery increase or decrease?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion eight I\u2019d like to ask the Minister is: how does she explain the 31-day faster cancer treatment times being some of the worst, if not the worst, figures reported at annual review by Bay of Plenty, Northland, Nelson-Marlborough, Lakes, and Wairarapa? How do we explain that very important faster cancer treatment time\u2014the 31-day faster cancer treatment time\u2014being some of the very worst ever reported? That\u2019s question eight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion nine is: have emergency department wait times to target increased or decreased over the past year\u2014the year in review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 10: why did health officials not progress a collaboration with Kaweka developers opposite Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital to co-develop linear accelerators? This looks like it was making progress through the district health board (DHB), and then more recently they\u2019re reporting that it has been, as they say, completely kiboshed, is what the report was\u2014what\u2019s that?\u2014four, five, maybe six days ago. I\u2019m interested, and I\u2019m sure the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay are interested, to know what happened with that collaboration over the year in review that led to that conclusion. That\u2019s question 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 11: what hospitals have had water leaks, sewage leaks, or black mould identified as problematic in hospital buildings? Now, I have a particular interest in this because Northland Base Hospital in 2021, as referred to in written parliamentary question (WPQ) 41177, had a leak which was a sewage leak in the main stack. And when we checked its progress, it was well later in 2022\u2014so almost a year later, WPQ 40832\u2014where the statement is \u201CI am advised the initial leak has now been contained however further leaks have been discovered and are being remediated.\u201D So just in that hospital alone, we have sewage for what has now been for a year. I\u2019m interested to know about water leaks, sewage leaks, or black mould. And we know, of course, some of the leaks in the emergency department in Waikato, but that\u2019s a little bit outside the scope of what we\u2019re looking for in this annual review, but which other hospitals had similar concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 12 is more general: can the Minister name any health metrics for M\u0101ori\u2014M\u0101ori health measures\u2014that have improved over the year in question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 13: did she receive any communications on the impact of any potential Australian announcements of New Zealanders being given residence and the impact of that on our health workforce, and, if so, what was that impact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 14: are answers to written parliamentary questions correct that in the first three months of establishment of the M\u0101ori Health Authority, there was no financial budget\u2014a multimillion-dollar entity had no financial budget for the first three months of its existence\u2014if that is correct, how do we explain that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 15: the Minister in one of her replies described opening the green list for health workforce. The question would have to be\u2014because we would contend that was horribly late; that the letter from Keriana Brooking 18 months to two years previously pointed out, on behalf of all DHBs, the importance of opening those immigration settings. And so my question would be: did she actively lobby the Minister of Immigration during the year in review to more quickly open up the day one fast-track to residency for nurses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 16 is: why was the cancer target removed for the first half of the year in question; why was it not one of the 12 health indicators front and centre as a measure of the health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAnd the last question I have\u2014question 17\u2014is: did those 12 health indicators, which were collaborated with the Health Quality and Safety Commission (HQSC), only last for six months before the HQSC was removed from the project and a completely new set of health metrics brought into place? Those are the questions I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002268b7527412634410a8c99ba95df56122\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268b7527412634410a8c99ba95df56122\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I understand, in a year where we have had the challenges of a pandemic, that many New Zealanders would have come out of the year under review with all of that disruption, and their mental health would have been under pressure. But I want to assure the committee that our mental health system has never been stronger. The Access and Choice Programme that is the cornerstone of the Budget 2019 mental health roll-out is really hitting its straps, and now over half of New Zealanders are enrolled in a general practice, and they can walk in and, often on the day, get mental health support in terms of their health issues and also coaching on how to address other mental health wellbeing issues. That service\u2014we designed it intentionally to address some of the equity gaps we know exist with mental health, and I am proud to say that, rather than being set up in the ways of many other services, this service is actually being used more by M\u0101ori and Pacific than you would expect as a proportion of population, because we\u2019ve set it up with their needs in mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn addition, the Government is taking action on the wider influences of wellbeing through the Mana Ake programme and the Piki programme that is being rolled out in many parts of the country. We are taking more innovative approaches, using telehealth more or mental health apps, which we know brings in people into the mental health system who might feel that an in-person consultation was too confronting for them. So this is another way in, and it\u2019s more convenient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe have set up the structures within Government to be able to coordinate with other social agencies because we know mental health issues also touch on policing issues, they also touch on housing issues, and, often, people in need of mental health support also require support from other Government agencies, including the Ministry of Social Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn addition, the work we are doing on our mental health workforce is paying off, and this is what happens when a Government shows leadership rather than brushing things under the carpet as has been done in the past. When you show leadership, work in this area becomes more desirable and that\u2019s why, for the first time that I can remember, the psychiatry training programme is oversubscribed. We are training more psychologists than ever\u2014and, yes, there is a mental health workforce plan. It is being redeveloped by the new agencies as well. But we are well on the way, in mental health, to building the workforce of the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00225e1009c98e224572bc0bae3004026b8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e1009c98e224572bc0bae3004026b8c\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just wanted to take a slightly different track, and elucidate for the many listeners and viewers today the issue we had at the Health Committee about hearing the annual reviews, because I think it\u2019s actually reflective of the reform in Pae Ora. What I mean by that, with the health restructure, is that normally the annual reviews\u2014and I\u2019m sure Dr Shane Reti will agree with me\u2014are an important time for the Opposition to ask questions of the organisations and entities and hold them to account. Normally, at that select committee, when there was a district health board (DHB) structure, the chief executives and teams of maybe up to six, eight, or 10 of those leadership teams would attend so that they could answer every question in detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe issue we had this time is, of course, when each DHB turned up, there was only one or two health professionals who could answer very little of the questions. So, in fact, the reason why some of the reports are\u2014well, in fact, to be honest, the reason why we haven\u2019t even received some information from the DHBs, and the ones we did when we wanted to drill down into the issues deeper, we had representatives from those entities who weren\u2019t over the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhy I think this is reflective of what we\u2019re going to experience going forward for the annual review process in Parliament, but also the experience of the public and constitute MPs, is that now that we have this mega-entity, there is, in fact, going to be no people who can answer questions on the ground. As a constituent MP, when I have an issue about one of my constituents who needs better healthcare, I used to be able to go to the DHB CEO; I can\u2019t do that any more\u2014in fact, I\u2019m given a generic email address to go to customer inquiries and fight my way through that bureaucratic process. That\u2019s what our experience was on the select committee. I\u2019m not sure how select committee members are going to be able to drill down to health issues in their region, when we\u2019ll have people who won\u2019t understand where Rangiora is and they won\u2019t be able to understand the pressures of North Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo it is going to be interesting to ask the Minister to take a call today and explain to us how Health New Zealand is going to be able to respond better than they did during the annual reviews that we experienced in the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002209a02a297eaa4779996dcff697b7583e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a02a297eaa4779996dcff697b7583e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I can address some of the questions posed by Dr Reti. So, firstly, question one: the unaudited deficit was $378 million across all district health boards, which is $172 million favourable to budget. The final audited result is still to come because of evaluations about the impact of Holidays Act liabilities on that number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe Te Whatu Ora Budget 2022 contingencies for operation expenditure that have been drawn down to date are $742 million. Te Whatu Ora inherited, at July 2022, as a new agency, 1,100 contingent workers, and that is reduced to 850 at the end of March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe question about consultancy, I can tell the member that the person concerned is no longer an employee at the health agency where they were working, and also that the review is under consideration for release, at the moment, by officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to question six about first specialist appointments: over 2021-22, they increased during the COVID period but now we are seeing an increase reflecting improving access to care. Of course, the member knows we continue to work very hard on those figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00221e96379f9b10475a890a8850d257a402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e96379f9b10475a890a8850d257a402\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There are further questions I would like to ask. The first would be question 18: why does the Health New Zealand website currently state that nursing wages and salaries in New Zealand are comparable to Australia, and does the Minister agree with that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EQuestion 19: I want to look back over leaked documents we had in the year in review from the Bay of Plenty District Health Board (DHB), and it was signed on behalf of every single senior medical officer (SMO), every single specialist, and they made a number of points. Two of them were particularly pertinent. One of them was about haemodialysis patients where the specialist was saying patients say to them they would rather die than travel to Hamilton for their haemodialysis. Now, I do believe there may have been some improvement in that situation with new seats at Waikato DHB, but that was a very serious statement to make. But it was followed up by the SMOs at Bay of Plenty DHB, which was what I think was as serious a statement. That is, that people who had been waiting for management of bowel cancer, who were curative at the time, had waited so long that they became palliative. That\u2019s a very serious statement for surgeons and for medical people to make, and I think there is some response required as to how we address that. It\u2019s just that one DHB\u2014and I did allude to it\u2014with the 31-day cancer treatment times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think the other question I\u2019d ask the Minister, because she did talk about holiday pay as being one of the factors why the accounts are unaudited\u2014this is getting to be a long period of time now; we\u2019re almost coming up for a year, and the accounts are still unaudited. And I don\u2019t know what the statutory requirement is, but that must be pushing the envelope. But what I would ask her is: the home-care and support workers legislation concludes on 30 June; how much has been put aside or will be appropriated, and what is the size of redoing that 30 June home-care and support workers\u2019 pay equity legislation? My understanding is it\u2019s a big number. So my question is: what is that number, and how has the Minister taken that into account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee9d9b1891a54060927b4950eec5068b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee9d9b1891a54060927b4950eec5068b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I spot amongst some of the member\u2019s questions some that also feature in my written parliamentary question list, so I can reassure the member that, no, I have not had any conversations about the impact of New Zealanders\u2019 new residency rights in Australia on the New Zealand health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe member mentioned the faster cancer waiting-times performance metric, and my comment to the member about that is this is a metric where I think it\u2019s really important to dig into the detail of what it means. So the metric applies to people who have quite a high probability of cancer at the time that they are first seen\u2014so people with visible bumps, or growths in some cases. So what that means is these are the people who are likely to have the worst outcomes from their cancer treatment. They reflect probably a fraction\u2014maybe 20 percent\u2014of the people\u2019s situation who have cancer at the time of their diagnosis. And it is desirable that the majority of people\u2014in fact, it would be great if it was all people\u2014had their cancer diagnosed at an earlier stage, because that\u2019s when you get the best outcomes for them. So that particular target applies to those who have the worst prognosis, and so I caution the member about taking that as an indication of cancer services overall, because if we were to optimise our system for that indicator, we would not be using one that would really drive the best outcomes for all of the people with cancer that we seek to look after. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI think an important thing to remember about the year under review is, around the world, cancer services were disrupted significantly, and we saw challenges in cancer system performance all around the world. And in some international comparisons, the New Zealand system really shone, because of the work that our cancer agency was able to do in a joined-up system, making sure that a similar approach to clinical care was taken by clinicians all around the country, making sure that best practice was shared in terms of how you address COVID in these really complex clinical settings. And in some ways, that\u2019s an indicator of the type of joined-up system and fast action we can take when we\u2019re in an emergency situation that is enabled by the health reforms that were brought in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EA few other measures I can tidy up for the member now. The first three months of the establishment of Te Aka Whai Ora\u2014they were yet to have their appropriations transferred at that stage, and so that is the situation for them in the first three months of the current financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022841b1cd19dd84e1883bc35abd6924f75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841b1cd19dd84e1883bc35abd6924f75\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E When I go out door-knocking and talking to Kiwis, a comment I receive often is \u201CIt feels like the Government is taking more of our money, the Government is spending more of our money, and yet we don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re getting any added benefit from it.\u201D I want to look at the core Crown expenses of health. In 2018, the Government was spending around $17 billion on the healthcare system; in 2022, it was $28 billion. We\u2019ve seen health spending increase by around 60 percent in four years, and yet it feels like our healthcare system has gone backwards. We have seen wait times increase for surgeries, for the emergency departments, for dental care. We have more and more people waiting longer for their CT scans and their MRI scans. How is it possible that this Government is spending more and more money and yet people feel like our healthcare system is moving to being Third World? What added value are we getting for all of this increased spending, and is it good enough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002289f08c5291664c53ad7138270e8342d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289f08c5291664c53ad7138270e8342d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I can reply to the question about home and care support workers that this is a negotiation that is currently ongoing, so, for obvious reasons, we won\u2019t be stating the amount that has been put aside for any settlement there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the black mould discovered in Middlemore in the year under review, the cladding has been replaced to the sewerage system joints to stop further leaking. There was a historical problem with leaky buildings, and that work has been completed in 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWith respect to Ms van Velden\u2019s questions, I see the matter very differently. I reflect on the time I worked in the health system, which was a time during the global financial crisis where, essentially, there was a policy of austerity for the health system; where we didn\u2019t get our regular uplifts in terms of wages in the health system; where we didn\u2019t get increase in spending for medicines, so our purchasing power for lifesaving treatments decreased; where there wasn\u2019t investment in capital expenditure\u2014some years, zero; absolutely zero. You think about the size of the capital that we own, and to put nothing aside for health system capital is absolute malpractice on the part of that Government that her party supported. So we have had to play catch-up in terms of raising wages, which we have done\u2014nursing wages are up 34 percent under this Government for graduate nurses; over 40 percent for senior nurses, and we\u2019ve made progress across a range of other vital clinicians in terms of addressing their very legitimate claims for pay. Medicines budgets have gone up, and that is what is giving people Trikafta and Spinraza and treatment for HIV and preventing HIV, for multiple forms of blood cancer. That Pharmac budget under our time has increased 43 percent, and that is having a very real impact on the lives of New Zealanders that those medicines are saving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWhen we came into Government, we had to reverse the effect of that austerity on our health system, and it would take time at the best of times\u2014and then there was a pandemic. So we\u2019ve backed our health system through that pandemic, we have backed our workers and kept them safe where around the world over a hundred thousand healthcare workers died in COVID\u2014we didn\u2019t have that experience here in New Zealand. I accept there is much more to do, but I heartily reject the austerity in our health system. That was the policy of the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00229efbe7a30aeb498db67f3bb87a868285\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229efbe7a30aeb498db67f3bb87a868285\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to pick up on the Minister\u2019s comments. We\u2019re talking about $11 billion of increased expenditure over four years. The Minister has talked about small increases to the pharmaceutical budget, some increases for the pay of nurses, we\u2019ve talked a little bit about an increase due to COVID, but during COVID, the expenditure was sitting around $20 billion to $23 billion. We\u2019re talking about $28 billion last year. Where is that money going? It\u2019s not going to the nurses\u2019 increased funding. It\u2019s not going to increases in pharmaceutical budgets. What added value are we getting from that money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00228cbb0efa84574ed59f5166c1bd683c81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cbb0efa84574ed59f5166c1bd683c81\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I think the member\u2019s question has been addressed. I\u2019ll turn to the early comment about comparable salary with Australia, seeing we\u2019re on the topic of nurses\u2019 salaries, which have been put up by this Government and part of the interim pay equity payment that was made just a couple of months ago to nurses who work in Te Whatu Ora brought those base pay rates. To be clear, that is what we are talking about: the base pay that you get for working a regular week in New Zealand to be on par with New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland. Subsequent to that, in April, Queensland raised its pay rates so that they are ahead of New Zealand and other states now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EBut all of us, New Zealand and the Australian states, stay in ongoing pay negotiations. So while I am sure that those numbers will bounce around from time to time, we are in a much better position than we were before, where we had a major gap between New Zealand and Australia. So it\u2019s a very important lever to making nursing an attractive profession to go into and to stay in and for other people to come from overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn addition, not just in Te Whatu Ora but in the funded sector, we\u2019ve implemented pay parity for nurses. So now we are halfway through a process of rolling out pay parity, whereby those nurses, who work in roles, say, in aged residential care, and M\u0101ori and Pacific providers, have an avenue for their pay to be increased. That\u2019s a $200 million commitment that we\u2019re rolling out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very easy to say that we need to do things about workforce, but the Government has been doing that work for some time to raise these pay rates and show that we really do value these important workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00224eb3f7d93838435eb9d7a34e11e96be7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eb3f7d93838435eb9d7a34e11e96be7\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. A couple of points that the Minister has raised; she\u2019s made the point\u2014or tried to make the point\u2014that there were some years when there was no capital expenditure. Can she identify those years then, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESecondly, she\u2019s wanted to take some issue with the 31-day cancer treatment target. Can she explain, then, why it\u2019s one of the Health New Zealand performance measures that are reported every quarter? If it wasn\u2019t so good, as we\u2019re raising the question, why is it now a health performance measure? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe third point, she sort of liked to attribute everything to COVID. Without doubt, it\u2019s had impact, and I\u2019m not saying that it hasn\u2019t. Of course it has. But what I\u2019d say is if we look back at the metrics before COVID even arrived, how were surgical wait-lists doing then? How were first specialist assessments doing, and emergency department wait times? They weren\u2019t doing so good, even before COVID hit our shores. So while I accept it\u2019s been a contributor, I\u2019m not prepared to say, \u201COh, this is all a COVID responsibility\u201D. And if you talk with people like John Bonning, who was spokesperson for the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine out of Waikato, and he was very clear: \u201CThis is not a COVID blip\u201D. So while I accept it\u2019s been a contributor, I do not accept that it\u2019s totally responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhat I also just wanted to talk to, then, was during this period in review, the Canterbury gynaecology referral pathways\u2014which were created in December 2021, and said that they would not accept gynaecology referrals unless they needed to be seen within four weeks. That is, unless they had a degree of urgency within four weeks. That went in place on 1 December 2021\u2014was due to be reviewed December 2022. At that time, it was reviewed and they\u2019ve now stayed in place, and I\u2019ve received a number of emails and communications from women in the Canterbury region saying, \u201CWhy do we have to be that urgent to get on to the gynaecology referral pathway?\u201D So maybe the Minister could talk to that as well. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022838194efabdf4509b0e2a3828467096f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022838194efabdf4509b0e2a3828467096f\u0022\u003EDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Noa\u2018ia, Madam Chair, f\u1EA1i\u0227kse\u2018ea. Minister, I just want to say thank you for answering some of our questions. You\u2019ve already answered a couple of mine. I do have two just to target, but I appreciate the work that\u2019s been done in terms of the mental health Access and Choice programme, especially what you\u2019ve mentioned about our M\u0101ori, Pacific, vulnerable, and youth-specific programmes that target these groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003EI just want to focus on the public health and the winter preparedness. I know there\u2019s work in progress being done on workforce, waiting lists, but also on the winter preparedness plan as well. When it comes to these public health initiatives, we want to make sure that equity is one of those things\u2014inequities in our community, whether it be flu, respiratory syncytial virus, COVID19, the various initiatives that we\u2019re doing in the sector to help our communities. So that\u2019s one question: what initiatives are up to plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e5576ce-ac6e-42fa-8d46-bdec9ba3ec7c\u0022\u003ENumber two is also in the year in question, about the COVID-19 response and what lessons has the ministry, the sector learnt. Again, I want to point out to the many providers that have done great work, whether it be primary care or secondary care, in order to vaccinate, treat, and manage those with COVID-19 and those with comorbidities as well\u2014the hard work from the sector in protecting our community. So what lessons have been learnt during that time? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1319f70ae8743b6bf881868e6e0495c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1319f70ae8743b6bf881868e6e0495c\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. When I think about the winter plans that we\u2019ve seen during just this term of Government, there\u2019s been successive improvements in every one and a strong focus on hospital management in the winter of 2020 and 2021, and, essentially, an emergency plan much like was part of any pandemic or flu plan, that wards would be shut down and hand care suspended in order to make space for an anticipated large volume of patients. In the end, because of the COVID response and subsequent vaccination response, those worst-case scenarios never eventuated, but it is certainly the case that there were disruptions in the system, and planned care in particular suffered as a result and we are catching up from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThis year, the stand-up of the new health entities enables a much more sophisticated approach to winter, making sure that we respond as a whole system, not as 20 different silos. That enables us to look at areas where there\u2019s been fantastic local innovation and disseminate that innovation across the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI visited an excellent service run by the pharmacists in Upper Hutt, the same ones that did mine and the Prime Minister\u2019s COVID vaccination, and they run a minor ailment service there. Children with skin infections, scabies, or lice, and children with fever can get treatment direct from the pharmacy. There\u2019s a GP available in support if that\u2019s necessary, but it\u2019s usually not, because these pharmacists are very experienced. It\u2019s just one example of the way we\u2019re working to make care more equitable, to make sure that care is delivered near your home so it\u2019s convenient, and to make sure that all of our professionals are working at the top of their scope rather than having to jump through hoops through the system, which ultimately doesn\u2019t respect them and is inconvenient for patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI do want to speak about some of the lessons learnt, and for that member, I know, the Delta outbreak was particularly impactful on his community. I think there were considerable lessons learnt by our public health teams in terms of how to work with community, how better to build trust when you\u2019re talking about illnesses, infectious diseases that are stigmatised, and when there is a lot of public interest in in those things. I could list a number of things, a number of innovations, which we are lucky to continue to benefit from. We have excellent contact-tracing infrastructure and that means that we are responding rapidly to things like measles cases in a way we haven\u2019t been able to before, all underpinned by state of the art technology that we developed for COVID. We have the tools of community mobilisation that we built up during COVID, and we\u2019re much more keen to use those to have communities mobilising themselves around their vaccination needs, knowing that harder-to-reach communities are more likely to come forward when they see familiar faces in trusted spaces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe have a much more sophisticated technology for our recall for immunisations and we\u2019re much more able to target our resources\u2014for example, we know exactly where we need to be in terms of getting the measles vaccine out in Auckland at the moment. All our hospitals\u2019 ventilation has been upgraded. We have expanded ICU capacity. Every ICU I go to looks like they have new facilities where they are able to take care of more patients and safely with safe ventilation there, which is good for COVID but good for the long-term resilience of our health system. We have tools in epidemiology like whole genome sequencing and waste-water epidemiology. That means whatever infectious diseases threats come our way, we are much better able to respond and we have an experience and knowledge of health at our border that will help us be able to deal with any international threats in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002227e740cc921245aa92877de72aaaed16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e740cc921245aa92877de72aaaed16\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Fair to say, I think, as a parent, one of your worst nightmares would be realising that your child had or was developing an eating disorder. What we\u2019ve seen under Labour since 2017-18 is that when they came into office, 49 percent of young people who needed eating disorder treatment were seen in the first three weeks. By the end of 2021-22, that had dropped down to 24 percent\u2014a decrease of 51 percent of the number of young people who are accessing lifesaving eating disorder treatment in the first three weeks. And of course when that access is constrained, it\u2019s clearly obvious what\u2019s going to happen, and we can see that in the statistics, with hospitalisations for eating disorders over that same period increasing from 542 to 802\u2014an increase of 47 percent. So the number of young people being seen under the five years of Labour go down 50 percent, and the number of young people who have to pitch up to hospital to get a level of care increases by 50 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EDespite the $1.9 billion announced for mental health, funding into eating disorders has been quite static, at about $8 million. Now, the Minister, I\u2019m sure, will get up and say that, in the last Budget, they announced a few million dollars for eating disorders, but after what we learnt today about their announcement for crisis services, and people waiting in the emergency department for 94 hours\u2014the longest in the history of New Zealand\u2014who would actually have faith that this Government spends the money that they announce? Because time and time again, we find out that money is still sitting there while the need increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo my question is to the Minister. When you speak to the eating disorder sector, they are calling for an independent review\u2014that\u2019s what they want. They say investment is good, but they don\u2019t even know, themselves, where you\u2019d put that investment\u2014until you\u2019ve had an independent review that would inform an eating disorder strategy in New Zealand and then a subsequent investment strategy. When we\u2019ve asked the last health Minister, Andrew Little, he\u2019s refused. He\u2019s said no. An independent review, that\u2019s not going to happen under his watch. He did not listen to the eating disorder sector. So I\u2019m asking the Minister today if she could get up and say whether she supports the eating disorder sector\u2019s call for an independent review into the lack of access and services for our young people who are suffering from eating disorders today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6b0efda5ba644cda4c76b302646c14c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6b0efda5ba644cda4c76b302646c14c\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am returning to an earlier question about emergency departments and also to the issue of the winter plan, because those two issues about acute demand in our system are related. In that area, we have a focus on keeping people out of the emergency department, and we\u2019ve talked previously about community initiatives to enable GPs, pharmacists, and others to do more. We can also improve the flow within the emergency department. This includes making sure that telehealth services are better available, and also, sometimes, we can provide virtual care as well. These options, some of them, have been piloted at Middlemore emergency department, and are being rolled out in other places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI think, in relation to the last question on eating disorders, if I look across the mental health system generally, there has been a considerable number of reviews and pieces of work done around what the appropriate way of structuring our mental health system is. I think it\u2019s important to get on with it and keep growing the services that we have rolled out both through the 2019 funding and 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5d432b9cc7b4ce8bd9687faa5584ab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5d432b9cc7b4ce8bd9687faa5584ab3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister of Health has ended. The Minister of Education is now available for one hour to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b041943411b54ea6a24598c5780f513d\u0022\u003EEducation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u002233ffe72c270340308f6f8821907d7651\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233ffe72c270340308f6f8821907d7651\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Acting Chairperson of the Education and Workforce Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to kick off this annual review debate as the acting chair of the Education and Workforce Committee. I\u2019d also like to thank the staff and the clerks and the officials who prepared the reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThe Education and Workforce Committee has conducted the 2021-22 annual review of the following entities: the Ministry of Education, the Education Review Office, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, the Tertiary Education Union, the Tertiary Education Commission, Education New Zealand, Education Payroll Ltd, and the Network for Learning Ltd. Alongside the annual reviews, we have also considered the reports of the Ombudsman on the Minister of Education\u2019s compliance with the Official Information Act 1982.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWe met with the Minister of Education and officials to discuss the 2021-2022 annual reviews of the education sector. The topics covered in the hearing with the Minister were the effects of COVID19 on the education sector, the emergency readiness of schools, school attendance, the Ministry of Education restructuring, student achievements in literacy and numeracy, and Te P\u016Bkenga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ENow, I do not have the time to summarise and comment on everything covered in that report but I would like to highlight some. In regards to Te P\u016Bkenga, the Minister acknowledged her disappointment at the initial slow progress of Te P\u016Bkenga. However, she noted that she was feeling more confident and much more happy with the recent progress. The Minister also noted that the Eastern Institute of Technology is very pleased, for example, with Te P\u016Bkenga, having a nationwide entity supporting them throughout the flood-recovery efforts, which is going to make a big difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EAttendance officers and attendance services: during COVID-19, the ministry started collecting weekly attendance data, rather than doing it by term. The Minister noted that attendance data collection is mandatory for schools, but it is not common knowledge, and said that more work is needed to be done on attendance data. The Minister also spoke about the new registered attendance officers and attendance service introduced into schools. More than two-thirds of this service are school-based; the remainder are NGO- and iwi-led. The select committee welcomed these changes to the design of the attendance services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EPay parity for early childhood education (ECE): the ministry officials acknowledged that ECE teachers are often paid less than their counterparts in kindergarten. We looked at the pay parity scheme. The aim is to close the gap and have access to more funding, if agreed, to pay teachers in line with the kindergarten collective agreement. The ministry informed the committee that 54 percent of ECE centres had opted in\u2014predominantly the larger centres. A pay parity advisory group had been set up to provide advice on the funding model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EIn regard to M\u0101ori and Pasifika participation rates in ECE, it is 62 percent and 65 percent, respectively, and the nationwide average is 76 percent. The ministry noted that wider access to childcare subsidies would lessen the financial barriers to participation in ECE for M\u0101ori and Pasifika children. It also noted that the more effective ECE climate also helped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ELike I said in my introductory remarks, the list is long. But I will just leave it here and I look forward to the rest of the contributions and the debates for the rest of this afternoon. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002201db03284a2f461ebde85d4531dce87a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201db03284a2f461ebde85d4531dce87a\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll start off this debate on the topic of staffing allocations, and I\u2019ve got around about five questions. So I\u2019ll give these all to the Minister in one go and let her answer afterwards, if she\u2019s able to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI guess my first question to the Minister is: what is the total value of the inquiry time funding that is allocated to k\u0101hui ako for the 2022 period? The reason that I\u2019m asking that\u2014I\u2019m sure the Minister is aware of where this is heading\u2014is that in her recent announcement to give schools some staffing allocation to the value of $130 million, or about 320 teachers, I believe, in two years\u2019 time, I\u2019m keen to see what the difference is between these two numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe reason that I\u2019m asking\u2014and there are a number of other questions I want to ask the Minister around this\u2014is that there is a plan to disestablish the inquiry time, and it\u2019s been signalled in the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) agreement. Communications from the NZEI to its members recently said, \u201CFor financial reasons, the Ministry of Education insisted that it is essential for them to disestablish inquiry time.\u201D, and \u201CTo be clear,\u201D it was the bargaining team\u2019s preference for the \u201Cinquiry time to remain.\u201D I want to ask the Minister: were these financial reasons that the NZEI speaks about the financial reasons for finding $130 million to fund the 320 teachers in two years\u2019 time in an attempt to reduce class sizes? Because what this seems to be is a sleight of hand, switching out one staffing allocation for another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMy next question to the Minister is: how does she explain it to a principal in the middle of the North Island who contacted me to say that in two years\u2019 time, he will gain 0.2 of a teacher, but lose 0.15 of a teacher for his inquiry time allocation through k\u0101hui ako for his 330 children? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMy third question to the Minister is: of the 1,942 intermediate and primary schools, 999 of those have fewer than 175 students. In her recent announcement, those schools with fewer than 175 students will not be eligible for any of the additional staffing allocations she announced, yet many of those schools, if they\u2019re in a k\u0101hui ako, will be eligible for the inquiry time. So my question to the Minister is: how many of those 999 schools that do not get any allocation from her latest announcement will lose out and be worse off because they lose their inquiry time allocation in what seems to be a switching of one staffing fund for another? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThose are the questions that I have around the switching of the inquiry time for what seems to be her latest announcement. So the questions were: what is the total value, how does she explain it to the principal who\u2019s going to be only 0.5 percent of a teacher better off, were the financial reasons the NZEI spoke about the fact that she needed to find that money for her latest announcement, and how many of the 999 schools with less than 175 students will actually be worse off because they don\u2019t qualify for anything under her announcement, and yet they lose out under the inquiry time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb1d2c3788a64c7999684027f6be7ee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb1d2c3788a64c7999684027f6be7ee2\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E So inquiry time is worked out where a school\u2019s guaranteed minimum formula staffing or assured staffing is greater than 10 full-time teacher equivalents (FTTE). We calculate the inquiry time by dividing the school staffing by 10 and multiplying that result by 0.06 to give an annual FTTE allocation. That will be how you work that out, and that\u2019s available on the website if the member would like to go and check that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227f99f1032de4c7392daace2ab320b64\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: The total values?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2fd5e8c3a3e45c2a3988561c9cb196a\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: So the\u2014well, I\u2019m just saying that the member can go and check that out on the website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EReducing class sizes, and the announcement around that\u2014it was very clear at the time when that announcement was made that this is not related to the current bargaining rounds at all. So we have heard the stressors that teachers are under, and we announced\u2014which was probably, well, I believe the more important part of the announcement was the ministerial advisory group. We had to back that up with an announcement as well. And so that announcement was made. But it is very separate to bargaining. Reduction of class sizes should never come into bargaining; it should always fit separately. But we do have to have that oversight at the ministerial advisory group level, which will let us look at all areas of the system, not just one part in isolation. However, we did make that announcement because we do know that the year 4 to 8 staffing entitlement does sit as a bit of an anomaly to the rest of the system. So we do know that it is very likely that a ministerial advisory group will come up with some sort of recommendation in that area. So we were able to lean into that in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThere is no settlement yet, so what the member is relating to and referring to as far as what was being bargained in the settlement does not exist. There is no settlement. And as far as that is concerned, as Minister\u2014and I have said this time and time again\u2014I cannot comment on that because we are in the middle of good-faith bargaining happening and I will not lean in any further other than making high-level statements around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00222db76681afa745b28b7cde41dd2ad24a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222db76681afa745b28b7cde41dd2ad24a\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E The NZ Educational Institute (NZEI) was at pains, Minister, to explain that, in fact, the loss of the inquiry time was nothing to do with the offer and the negotiations. So, in fact, the Minister can talk about it because it has nothing to do with the pay and conditions of the staff, and it\u2019s actually said to its members, \u201CIt is outside that; we just noted it in our summary agreement.\u201D but it has nothing to do with the actual bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo it sounds like the ministry has told NZEI that they are going to disestablish the inquiry time, but in fact it has nothing to do with the actual bargaining. That\u2019s what the NZEI has said to its members\u2014I\u2019ve got a copy of it in my hand. So the question that she hasn\u2019t answered remains is: if\u2014and when, I should say, because it looks like it\u2019s happening\u2014the inquiry time is being disestablished, what are the calculations that she has made of the 999 schools that have less than 175 students that will not gain anything from her recent announcement but will lose inquiry time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EFinally, I think the question that wasn\u2019t answered, which is very important\u2014which the Minister can point me to calculations on websites\u2014but in terms of the 2022 Budget year, what was the total value in millions of the inquiry time funding? So that relates to that financial year. What was the total value, in millions, of the inquiry time funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister can say, \u201CThis is how it\u2019s worked out\u201D and point me to a website, but I\u2019m asking her directly\u2014with all her officials behind her\u2014what is the total value in millions of the inquiry time funding allocated to k\u0101hui ako for the 2022 year. She\u2019s explained how it\u2019s all worked out and I can go to a website and look how it\u2019s worked out, but the fact is there\u2019s no mention anywhere on that website of the total allocation in millions, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m asking her with all the officials behind her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll move on while she gets advice on it: learning support coordinators (LSCs). The sector has been asking why the roll-outs stopped, and I guess my question to the Minister is: there was the first tranche rolled out and then in the 2022 year there was no further roll-out. Now, schools have been upset about this because the evidence has shown that schools with learning support coordinators do end up being allocated more learning support funding, and the schools that missed out in the first roll-out\u2014which I think the previous Minister did indicate was rather shambolic and not done on need at all because some schools who were higher-decile, or even were State integrated schools, got LSCs and lower-decile schools didn\u2019t get them at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: why did the roll-out stop after the first tranche, and why was nothing allocated in that financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022d30533c7b7494aff9f9f06fc09dc62cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d30533c7b7494aff9f9f06fc09dc62cf\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for questions about learning support coordinators, because this is an area that I\u2019m absolutely passionate about. As I\u2019ve been quite publicly saying for a couple of years now, part of the reason for the slower roll-out has absolutely been about the fact that we need to make certain that they are making a difference\u2014and not just anecdotally\u2014to the sector, and part of that has been around the three tranches of evaluation that did cover off different areas and do absolutely point to the difference that they are making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo it backed up what we were hearing anecdotally. It has been signalled within the Highest Needs Review; you can see that when you are reading in the Highest Needs Review about the changes in the system that we want to see to make certain that all learners are experiencing success within our system. While it might not say \u201Clearning support coordinators\u201D specifically, you can definitely see where the role sits within the results of that review. As far as future roll-outs are concerned, that is subject to future Budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b10bae8f0baf4541abc0d322d6ee5baa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b10bae8f0baf4541abc0d322d6ee5baa\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Given the dramatic increase in youth crime in terms of ram raids and the amount of children\u2014very young children\u2014that we\u2019re seeing involved in those, given the number of unenrolled children who aren\u2019t enrolled in school at all, which is, I think, sitting around 7,500 at the moment. And also, I suppose given the very high unjustified absence rate and very high chronic truancy rate that the Minister is well aware of, I know, my question to her is: in the last financial year, what was done in terms of alternative education? What additional funding, what outcomes were gained from alternative education? What improvements did she see? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMy question to her around alternative education is: does she think that the Government\u2019s efforts in the last 12 months, or in that period, made a difference in that sector? And has she heard anything to the opposite to suggest that alternative education, in fact, is creating more harm than it is doing any good?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6cef61f93bf408ebf1510a3153a1c4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6cef61f93bf408ebf1510a3153a1c4d\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Another area that I\u2019m absolutely passionate about because I believe that the education system needs to be inclusive of alternative education. And just on that, my officials know that I absolutely hate the words \u201Calternative education\u201D because it makes it sound like it sits outside the system, and we need to make certain that it is part of the system and that young people who do have alternative education as their preferred way of providing their learning pathways feel like they\u2019re very much part of the system and don\u2019t see themselves as failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo in Budget 2022, we did have an increase into the alternative education\u2014basically their operational grant\u2014just like schools, and that will mirror going forward, or that\u2019s what we had said at the time. The intention was for that to mirror what schools\u2019 increase would be. We\u2019ve also re-signed, in the alternative education space, the contracts for delivery. They were re-signed at the end of 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI know personally that there are some absolute pockets of excellence in this space. I have visited many of them, where I\u2019m seeing absolutely outstanding results and young people who are highly engaged in their learning. It has turned their life around, and they are experiencing way stronger outcomes than they have ever experienced in the past and feeling good about themselves as learners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ve just been told that it was a 2.75 percent increase in 2022, and that equates to $2.25 million over the five years. So that\u2019s quite a significant increase when you\u2019re talking about the numbers of young people that are in there. But I do acknowledge that there\u2019s more to do in this space. Again, I feel that we see too many times where people position alternative education as outside the system, and we need to always position it as part of the system so that young people feel like they are being included and that they\u2019re, as I said, not seeing themselves as failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo, again, it\u2019s subject to future Budgets. We do have an ideal state that we have developed\u2014and Cabinet has agreed upon that ideal state. That preceded me, but we\u2019re constantly looking at that about how we can bring forward that work. I also do a lot of work with the national boards in this area. I\u2019ve presented to and talked with conferences\u2014the alternative education conferences\u2014to make certain that we are keeping in contact with those people that are doing that very, very important work of really working with some of our hardest-to-reach young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBut as I said, I have seen some amazing results in this area, and I strongly believe that we are well on the path of making certain that we\u2019re getting the answers right for all our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002291746a6d36ed42e3853d2ef78516ab13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291746a6d36ed42e3853d2ef78516ab13\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just moving on to staffing issues in the secondary sector. To the Minister, I guess the question is: what have been the plans in the last financial year to address the critical staffing shortages in secondary schools? I\u2019m particularly concerned because in 2010, the University of Auckland were training 350 secondary school teachers; last year, that was 165; I hear that this year it\u2019s about 130. Waikato in 2010, 225; last year, 160. Victoria in 2010, 245; last year, 85. The Secondary Principals\u2019 Association of New Zealand and secondary school principals across the country are screaming out because they cannot get staff in any areas, not just in those usual hard to staff areas of science and maths but actually they can\u2019t find physical education teachers, English teachers, and they are very, very worried that this year but also next year it is going to get much, much worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: what planning was done to address this? What do the numbers that she knows about look like this year in terms of the overall numbers that are training and need to be training? Or she could give last year\u2019s figures if she likes. But what is the planning that the ministry have done to improve this and what plans has she got going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022168867ef3cf643e1ab54b83f5ab80427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022168867ef3cf643e1ab54b83f5ab80427\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I\u2019d just like to say that the Ministry of Education\u2019s forecasting and how they project teacher numbers shows that as a system we\u2019re not too badly off. We know that there are shortages, but the shortages are often in locations or in subject areas. Like in the primary system, for example, we have the number of teachers there because we\u2019ve had that bubble that have moved through the school. But it\u2019s around the location of where people might want to move to. So we do have to do some work around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBut what I will say is that in September 2022 we invested an additional $24 million over three years to fund initiatives to grow teacher supply. This additional investment boosted our total teacher supply spend to $64 million in 2022-23. This was used to provide funding to test new approaches to reaching new sources of potential teachers, including funding 100 places in a school-embedded initial teacher education programme. This is something that principals had been advocating and lobbying for. The Secondary Principals\u2019 Association of New Zealand had been talking to us about that for quite some time. That has proven to be very, very popular. In fact, I\u2019ve had a number of principals who have been involved in that, who have come back to me and said that this is a game-changer for them. They see that it is something that we might be able to expand upon, and those are discussions that we are having in that\u2014how we can grow some of these programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThat was also used to expand successful teacher programmes which have experienced strong demand, such as increasing the number of Te Huawhiti Career Changer scholarships from 85 to 185 and expanding the BeTTER Jobs Programme, which was previously the Beginning Teacher Vacancy Support, which I have to say that in my previous role that was something that I took advantage of as well, and it does make a difference to the numbers of teachers that you are able to recruit and sustain. That was the big part of that particular part of the programme is that teachers didn\u2019t just do a year and move on somewhere else; they actually stayed with us. I think that that\u2019s something that many of our principals are really appreciating as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBut I think the big part of this is that we can\u2019t just do it from our internal pipeline. We have to make certain that we\u2019re looking to overseas recruitment as well, and in the short term\u2014we have to grow our pipeline for the long term as well\u2014looking to overseas recruitment. So the money was used to support overseas teachers\u2019 recruitment and making it easier to move to New Zealand. And we had\u2014I think it was as of April, might have been March\u2014over 1,700 visas approved for either work visas or residence visas for teachers. Not all taking up jobs at this stage, but we have had them that have come through the borders since the borders have opened. So that has been a big part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWhat I do also want to point out in this space is that two weeks ago I was with the union presidents and vice-presidents in Washington at the International Summit of the Teaching Profession. We are absolutely not alone in this issue. In fact, we\u2019re probably one of the better-off jurisdictions that were at that particular summit. What I found really interesting in that was that as union heads and as the Minister, we were able to get together with those other countries to talk about possible solutions going forward. They were very much looking at our solutions just as much as we were looking at theirs, so we need to put into context that this is a global issue and it\u2019s something that isn\u2019t going to go away overnight, but we have definitely used that funding to make a difference in the short term while we\u2019re planning out what we\u2019re going to be doing in the longer term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002287789c1290e74d91a5bfb46b7f30ebc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287789c1290e74d91a5bfb46b7f30ebc6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break in the House, and this debate will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.01 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222482e7bfb34d47678d500fe0be32f00e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222482e7bfb34d47678d500fe0be32f00e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Right, members. We resume. We have 35 minutes left for this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeb94c8b41c1413aa83a799975361cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeb94c8b41c1413aa83a799975361cc1\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E There was a question from Ms Stanford before the break, asking about the total value of inquiry time in 2022. That is $20 million per year. As far as anything else is concerned, I cannot discuss inquiry time, because unlike what the member said, it is part of bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022d549d986ffec4467a692b03e05522c28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d549d986ffec4467a692b03e05522c28\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This Government has overseen incredible increases in the cost of early childhood education (ECE) fees. We set the highest fees in the OECD countries. This is having significant economic impact on women\u2014and on businesses, with regard to skill shortages. And we all know that women coming back late into the workforce impacts upon their confidence, their KiwiSaver amounts, and the salaries they come back into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like the Minister of Education to let us know: of the 54 percent of the sector who have opted into the pay parity\u2014and we know they are mainly larger centres\u2014what modelling has been done on how much that pay parity has been subsidised by increases in fees? Also, can the Minister, given that all the consultation with the ECE sector that carried on in 2022 and the options that were worked up for pay parity funding from that consultation\u2014will the Minister give an absolute and categorical ruling out of removing the 20 hours of free ECE for age three and over? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022397ad60291c54e4ba027f007482994aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022397ad60291c54e4ba027f007482994aa\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll begin my contribution by first of all acknowledging all of our teachers, who are on the front line supporting our children to be the best that they can be in our school situations. My question relates to the ongoing strikes that are happening. It\u2019s been with us for quite some time, the issues, and teachers have continued to highlight over this week\u2014but also previous months as well\u2014about the agreement and how it is still falling far below inflationary costs. So my question to the Minister of Education is: where is this at, at this particular point? What is the block, and what does she see as the strategy for moving forward to make sure that teachers feel supported to do the work that they need to do? I do want to acknowledge the Minister\u2019s vast experience as being a former school principal as well, so I know that she gets it, but I think this House needs some clarity as to where this is at and what the blockages are and what we can do as a House to support moving those blockages out of the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220096a2a189e542f7b91ef2c48db0d7ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220096a2a189e542f7b91ef2c48db0d7ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, in that it relates, of course, to the 2021-21 appropriations year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9b51720a8f14185bfe26f8d55ec1b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9b51720a8f14185bfe26f8d55ec1b58\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it does, because collective bargaining was part of those appropriations as well, so it does relate to that year. There\u2019s not a lot that I can say, other than the fact that at this point in time, there is an offer that is out with New Zealand Educational Institute Te Riu Roa for both their kindergarten and their primary teachers. They are looking to take that to ratification from their members, so we will know more this week. Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association are in the middle of facilitated bargaining with the Ministry of Education, and that\u2019s about as much as what I can say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI will say, though, that I am surprised that industrial action is continuing at this point in time, because we are in a process, and, as the member knows, facilitated bargaining is part of our industrial processes in this country. We have to work through that process and that\u2019s really important. It is a process that I as Minister\u2014and even before that time, as a union advocate\u2014take really, really seriously. So I really look forward to some positive outcomes that will come out of that. I think that I\u2019m waiting to see what will happen this week as far as the ratification of the other agreements are concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EOh, sorry, Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de85907962a43b8b7a589f2b8aa6ba8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on, the honourable Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dbc83f52f2f462da011870e64bd479f\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I did mean to address the questions there. I am waiting to see if there is modelling around the subsidy, the fees. I will come back to the member on that. But I also would like to let the member know that there are absolutely no plans to take the 20 free hours away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00221b5c7c59556b46af8e1b7c624fe94c03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b5c7c59556b46af8e1b7c624fe94c03\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wonder if the Minister could tell us about the modelling that has been undertaken for the pay parity, and how many early childhood education centres will be worse off by achieving pay parity through impacting other aspects of provision and operations? What vulnerability for under-twos provision has been exposed by that modelling? And also if any disincentives for employing additional inexperienced teachers and teachers in training if a weighted average of all teachers\u2019 salaries is used?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002246e93534d698491889b29a276e5fed1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246e93534d698491889b29a276e5fed1d\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the Minister, 50 percent of students did not fully attend school in term 4, 2022, and 62 percent of M\u0101ori students were not attending school in term 4, 2022\u201420 percent of which were labelled as chronically absent. What is an acceptable full attendance rate for the Minister by M\u0101ori attendance, and when does the Minister consider that such a rate would be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022581a7c20ae064b2db6e63b9a87924972\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022581a7c20ae064b2db6e63b9a87924972\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just following on that initial question, my understanding is that there are different issues with our area schools as opposed to what\u2019s happening in our secondary schools, and I wonder if the Minister could give us a sense of which set of issues is closer to meeting the satisfaction of the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAnd my second follow-up sort of question is around the early childhood education wider questions that have been canvassed around the House: how will early childhood teachers be better off if early childhood centres opt in to those pay bumps, and what would that mean for the cost of living crisis that many of our early childhood teachers are under? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022422e27d8b12a4ca69bd7abf28b612b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022422e27d8b12a4ca69bd7abf28b612b94\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E A couple of questions there, or three questions to go through. I just wanted to go back to that first one from Ms Simmonds there. We don\u2019t have the numbers of early childhood education (ECE) fees that are not regulated outside of the 20 hours\u2019 free ECE. They have not been monitored since 2015, those fees, so we can all probably have a discussion around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWe are doing some work at the moment and are out for consultation around the pay parity, and we\u2019re looking at exactly that. We don\u2019t want to incentivise one way of employing younger teachers, for example, and that\u2019s exactly why we\u2019re going out for that consultation around having a better way of delivering pay parity with our centres. It\u2019s really important that we get the sector input into this, and it\u2019s really important that we don\u2019t do to the sector but that we\u2019re working with the sector in that respect, which is why we\u2019re going out for that consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThere has been a model that has been shown to them. I\u2019m not actually going to presuppose that that\u2019s the model that we\u2019ll actually even end up with. It is a starting place for our early childhood sector to be able to look at\u2014and I\u2019m just going to jump there and come over to that one around the pay parity at the same time, and I\u2019ll come back to the attendance one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo the pay parity: we know that when people are paid more, it\u2019s going to make a difference, not just to that person but it\u2019s generations that it makes a difference to. It\u2019s not just the worker who\u2019s in the centre; it\u2019s their children and it\u2019s their wh\u0101nau, and so that is why it is absolutely important that we get this right and that we do deliver in this area. So that\u2019s exactly why we\u2019re going out for consultation on the best model for pay parity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve asked about what\u2019s going to make a difference. Again, I know that we all want to have this conversation, but there are principles of good faith in bargaining, and I know that sometimes other people that are involved in that will lean into that space and talk about that and even talk about it in the media. I\u2019m not going to break those principles of good faith. I think that that\u2019s something that I hold to very dearly, but I\u2019m always open to having those parties talk to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very open to having those parties talk to me, and I\u2019m also very open, if you have heard something as a member, to you feeding that information back to me, as well. I think that\u2019s really important that we keep those communications, because you will all have people coming to you who are teachers that will all have certain ideas. I\u2019m very open to listening to those and hearing them, just as I was open when I was in the sector to having pathways to be able to let people know what the issues were. I think that\u2019s really important. So, please, I encourage the member: if you\u2019ve got some ideas, please be in contact and we can have those discussions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EComing back to attendance, and around there, I want to see every young person attending school every single day\u2014that\u2019s the bottom line\u2014but we have set targets. We\u2019ve set targets of getting up to that 70 percent, and then getting up to 75 percent of regular attendance. Do I think the measure is absolutely perfect? No, I don\u2019t, because it\u2019s inclusive of medical absence, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWe know that our M\u0101ori students have probably some of the highest figures there. Now, there\u2019s possibly a wider issue there that we need to be investigating as well about what the schooling system is doing to meet the needs of M\u0101ori. We need to be absolutely looking into that, and when I say \u201Cwe\u201D, I\u2019m talking about all of us, and that\u2019s all of the schools, etc., as well. But we want to make certain that people feel like they belong in the schooling system and that they are engaged in the schooling system, and to do that they have to be proud of their sense of identity within the system, too. That goes for all our cultures in this country, but particularly our mana whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002297e0de69258c4cd78e4c6a6421805e6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297e0de69258c4cd78e4c6a6421805e6e\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister is expecting the early childhood education sector to give feedback within three weeks without having access to the pay parity working group calculator and, therefore, without being able to work out the actual figures for their individual centres. How does the Minister see that that\u2019s going to be reasonable consultation for the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u00223d69f16736274378b14de4a12ef89cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d69f16736274378b14de4a12ef89cb4\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, Minister. I just wonder if we could have just a brief update on how you think the curriculum refresh is going, and maybe what the cost is to date, the projected cost by the time it has been fully rolled out, and how many fulltimeequivalent staff are working on the refresh, and how long have they been working on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002228bfb6ce2ffa41a5b57a4c40440d9a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228bfb6ce2ffa41a5b57a4c40440d9a8e\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This question is around our kura kaupapa and our wharekura. I do want to acknowledge the pay bump within k\u014Dhanga reo\u2014that was very significant for many of our teachers, so I do want to acknowledge the work done there. There have been calls within kura kaupapa for greater autonomy. I wonder if the Minister of Education has heard of or has any reflections of a Harvard report which points to that when you give indigenous peoples more autonomy, rangatiratanga, that they do better, that when we have control over our own resources and our own destinies\u2014if I can put it that way\u2014that they do better. This is what kura kaupapa are calling for in terms of the latest Waitangi Tribunal hearings that are happening at the moment. What is the Minister doing to ensure that greater autonomy for our kura kaupapa, our kura, our iwi, and our wharekura?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00228bce1e29b0f74f78a2ffd894aa912ff9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bce1e29b0f74f78a2ffd894aa912ff9\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll start there, because, again, there\u2019s not a lot I can say because it is in front of the tribunal at the moment, but what I can say is that, certainly, the k\u014Dhanga reo board worked very closely with the Ministry of Education to reach their aspirations for their mokopuna and tamariki. I met a kaiako from a k\u014Dhanga reo in the Waikato on Saturday night who was absolutely fizzing about the pay increase that she was going to get. Again, it goes back to the pay parity conversation that we\u2019ve just had before of the difference that it\u2019s not only going to make in her life but her four tamariki as well. It\u2019s going to change their outcomes and what they\u2019re doing. So I\u2019m so excited about that piece of work, and I\u2019m so excited about the changes that it\u2019s going to make in their lives. As far as kura kaupapa, I will let that work through in the tribunal, but I am a huge advocate of M\u0101ori medium and huge advocate for our young people to go through that pathway, because I\u2019ve seen firsthand the difference that it makes to those young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe curriculum refresh: I haven\u2019t got the numbers\u2014and I will get them\u2014of staffing involved there, but the spend to date up to 2022-23 across all costs, just from 2022-23 to 31 March, is $5,825, 558, that I\u2019ve got in front of me. If that\u2019s not quite correct, I will correct that with you\u2014I\u2019ll get that from my officials at the back\u2014but I will say that it is progressing really well. While it\u2019s been a very stressful time for our teachers, and particularly stressful, there is a lot of excitement about the changes that the curriculum is making and the refreshes it is making to them in their settings and what it will mean for their understanding of how to teach curriculum. You, like me, will know that we do have a world-leading curriculum in this country, but it has been one that sometimes has meant inconsistency across the country. What teachers are very excited about in this refresh is that it\u2019s giving them a clearer idea of what to teach and when to teach it. Teachers throughout, teachers that I\u2019ve interacted with over the years but even new people that I\u2019m interacting with out in schools, are saying it will make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EHowever, I was very aware of the work pressures that our teaching workforce are under, which is why I\u2019ve extended out the year now for it to be gazetted and mandated that they have to be teaching the new curriculum refresh, apart from literacy and mathematics. We know that we have to get that right, and so we have not changed the time lines around that all, but it gives our schools another year to get it implemented, to get it right, which they really do appreciate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI also say, and the member might appreciate this having come out of the secondary system, that my professional advisory group, when I first took over the NCEA change programme, were very adamant that we had a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get the curriculum in front of the NCEA programme. We know that NCEA has been driving the curriculum in those senior areas of the school, and the people that are on my professional advisory group are principals and teachers, and highly regarded teachers, who said it would be really good for the curriculum to be driving the teaching and learning rather than the assessment to be driving the teaching and learning. So that is one of the other reasons why I looked to extend that date out at the other end, so that we have that opportunity to try and get the two aligned better than what they are currently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00222ecf39e28c5a49eab2954a242cd4bc02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ecf39e28c5a49eab2954a242cd4bc02\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Up until 2017, the NCEA level 2 achievement rates for M\u0101ori had risen 18 percent to 75 percent\u2014M\u0101ori 18-year-olds who had NCEA level 2. They have since dropped to 72 percent. What\u2019s the main strategy, Minister, that you have to make sure that you reverse that trend?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac06532beac04b79aa50c53dd32d023c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac06532beac04b79aa50c53dd32d023c\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Turning now to the tertiary education sector and vocational education: Te P\u016Bkenga, the mega-merger of 16 Institutes of Technology and Polytechnics of New Zealand (ITPs) and nine industry training organisations, in 2021 had a revenue of $1.17 billion. Te P\u016Bkenga were forecasting in 2022 a $58 million deficit, then they reforecast to a $110 million deficit, then they reforecast to a $63 million deficit that was premised on the sale of assets and, in particular, two pieces of land which the Minister would have to have signed off for that to have occurred. Can the Minister inform us what the actual deficit is for Te P\u016Bkenga for 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ECan the Minister also tell us whether the $8 million of savings that were identified in head office were achieved, whether all ITPs across the network that were required to make a 3 percent saving achieved that saving, and what the deficit actually was for Te P\u016Bkenga for 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221af92d94c5a34278b5d336bfda5ccc59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221af92d94c5a34278b5d336bfda5ccc59\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wonder if the Minister could give us some detail in terms of her reflections of last winter and the winter plans that were advocated for on behalf of the ministry, in terms of COVID and other winter respiratory illnesses. And given that reflection, what would she advocate putting in place today to get that support? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESome of the things that I\u2019m hearing from teachers and from school communities is that it is having an impact on teachers being able to do their jobs, because when teachers get sick they can\u2019t be at work. People may have moved on from COVID, but COVID hasn\u2019t moved on from us. So a bit of a looking back in terms of what was in place, there\u2019s been quite a lot of movement in the COVID settings. So what does it mean moving forward? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002295dcc2cf64974eed9bdbe26e8551480a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295dcc2cf64974eed9bdbe26e8551480a\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E For Ms Simmonds, I\u2019m just getting some figures for you, so I\u2019ll come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EIn part of the COVID settings and what has happened in this space, can I first acknowledge how tough it has been for our schools\u2014all our education settings, but particularly our early childhood centres and our schools. I think that most people in this House would know that kids are very good at sharing, and that includes COVID and winter illnesses as well. It has not been easy and it has not been easy for our teachers, but we have put out air monitors and air purifiers into schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ENow, I also know that this is hard for people to hear, but the research\u2014and it\u2019s very strong research\u2014shows that the best way of keeping the air clear is by opening windows. Now, I know again that people are going to say, \u201CBut winter\u2019s coming.\u201D I taught in South London winter, and I can tell you that I wouldn\u2019t have taught in my year 7 and 8 classroom in the afternoons in the middle of winter without my windows open. There are wet socks and year 7 and 8 smells that we had to deal with, and I know that you can deal with the fact of how cold it is. There are other ways to deal with that, but it is really important that people understand that that is the research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I hear what people are saying and those are things that we continue to support schools with. We\u2019ll continue to monitor the situation. We continue to give advice; the ministry will continue to give advice through their Te Mahau to individual schools that want that support, and where the best settings for those individual areas are. Because not everybody\u2019s going to need them at the same time. Just because of the way that we\u2019re dealing with COVID at the moment, you\u2019ll have one school where it might be a little bit more prevalent, and so the advice was that school or that setting is going to be different to the one down the road that doesn\u2019t have any cases in it whatsoever at that point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s just to be really mindful of that public health advice. Appropriate mask wearing is still an appropriate method to help minimise the spread, and just keep mindful of what\u2019s happening at your school, and your setting, at that particular point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa321f492c15443d991fbe8aa070e4ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa321f492c15443d991fbe8aa070e4ce\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Just regarding the Minister of Education\u2019s answer earlier about the inquiry time not being part of the NZEI negotiations, the NZEI have written to a number of principals, saying, \u201CRegarding the removal of inquiry time, members should note the following: The removal of inquiry time is a Ministry action that they notified us about during the course of negotiations. Because of the way inquiry time is provided to schools, it is not necessary for our team to agree to this action in order for the Ministry to implement it. Inquiry time is not a feature of the Primary Teachers\u2019 Collective Agreement but it is instead a staffing allocation provided for in the [Ministry of Education] Order 2022.\u201D So my question still remains: of the 999 schools who are at less than 175 students, how many of those will lose out staffing allocations because of the removal of the inquiry time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5fd7d6d281b4af796ce8553cf5c00e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5fd7d6d281b4af796ce8553cf5c00e7\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E That might be the case, but it is part of bargaining this time, and so therefore I can\u2019t actually talk about it. But I can tell the member Erica Stanford that if I get different advice, I will make certain that she gets that information back to her, and I will give her that guarantee. I have been told that it is part of bargaining, and, while it is sitting as part of bargaining, as the Minister, I will not break good-faith principles. But, as I said, if I hear different and get different advice after this session, I will make certain that the member gets that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00225b4d922f6671457e8592c628fcad8074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b4d922f6671457e8592c628fcad8074\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E The Te P\u016Bkenga\u2014the mega-merged 16 polytechnics and nine industry training organisations\u2014the Tertiary Education Commission and the Auditor-General have consistently expressed their concerns about the financial performance of Te P\u016Bkenga, and the lack of an operating model for long-term viability of Te P\u016Bkenga. The long-term operating model will determine what Te P\u016Bkenga delivers, where it delivers it, what assets, infrastructure, and capabilities it needs to deliver it. Where has the Minister got to in terms of her discussions with Te P\u016Bkenga about the operating model, their ability to forecast their surplus or deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ETe P\u016Bkenga premised their budget with a 10 percent growth in domestic students; it has been a 10 percent reduction in 2022, and a further 10 percent reduction in 2023. What monitoring is the Minister doing of Te P\u016Bkenga and where is its financial forecasting at the moment in terms of its deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00228c4e24b1f38846eab0db84d9782b79f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c4e24b1f38846eab0db84d9782b79f7\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Te P\u016Bkenga continues to be monitored through the Tertiary Education Commission. There are clear expectations that I have given\u2014and even last week when I had a meeting with the chief executive (CE) and the chair of the board\u2014that the operating model and the organisation is to be prioritised; I have said that. I am happy with the progress that has been made since the new CE and the board has had some new members on it, what has been made since that time. We have an executive leadership that are in place. There have been key appointments that have been made. But I have made it clear that we need to see that progress and see it through to the nth degree, the end\u2014and I am satisfied that we are getting there and that the progress is being made, and we can see it and everybody can see it because we can see the achievements that they have had to date, as I\u2019ve said, with the key appointments that have been made and some of the direction that has been given out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ECan I go back to the early childhood education consultation: it\u2019s high level, how to shape the funding to better align the funding to salaries, so we cannot build the calculator until we have the wages and funding data in place. So it\u2019s at a high-level stage at this point in time, and that\u2019s why the calculator can\u2019t be there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe budget\u2014there is $120 million for the full programme, and that\u2019s the NCEA and the Curriculum Refresh, and we have spent $30 million to date. But remember this is a programme that\u2019s based over a number of years. There are 40 staff on the curriculum change programme that are currently employed doing that work at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EM\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori is being built into every aspect of what we\u2019re doing in the NCEA achievement, particularly in the NCEA Change Programme. It\u2019s really important in the curriculum refresh that we are building a truly bicultural curriculum that is addressing those young people that have not been achieving well over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo there is also professional learning and development that\u2019s really focusing in on cultural capacity that we\u2019re delivering to staff members and teachers throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022586a1b034bf4452597af19fed2d8c4ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586a1b034bf4452597af19fed2d8c4ec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I remind members, just before I take the next call, that we are considering, in this debate, the financial statements of the Government for the year ended 30 June 2022. Any questions that fall outside the period of the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill time period does not need to be addressed by the Minister in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd44e424ad574ce7852da73449289134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd44e424ad574ce7852da73449289134\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to also address the question about Te P\u016Bkenga\u2019s deficit for 2022. That\u2019s something that hasn\u2019t been finalised at this point in time, or at least it\u2019s not public at this point in time, so I am unable to give that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00229e2acf5b95114b3a903dfe13a9dde2b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e2acf5b95114b3a903dfe13a9dde2b5\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Te P\u016Bkenga is an entity that, as I said before, forecast a $58 million deficit, then reforecast a $110 million deficit, then a $63 million deficit. The Tertiary Education Commission received the draft results for Te P\u016Bkenga in February of this year. The Minister herself would have to sign off any sale of land assets for Te P\u016Bkenga, therefore the Minister must know that draft figure at the very least\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5515d19e98c48daad836acab49e45b7\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: She doesn\u2019t have to give it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d0ff31aab54c1b8aebd5aa47091c0d\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the Minister\u2014no. Well, can the Minister confirm whether she doesn\u2019t want to or is not able to give the deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00222ad47e96776b46e089c67490e78b85d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ad47e96776b46e089c67490e78b85d0\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E At this point in time, I\u2019m unable to give that deficit. It\u2019s not been made public but I\u2019m also unable to give it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1d1401e453346fdaca557e4b84dbe7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1d1401e453346fdaca557e4b84dbe7c\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in relation to the NCEA level 2 question that I asked earlier that has not been responded to\u2014perhaps because of your comment, Madam Chair. Can the Minister please point to the relevant appropriation within the 2022 accounts that actually drive towards reversing the trend, the falling trend, downward trend of M\u0101ori 18-year-olds with NCEA level 2 equivalent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b288a9130d9346458bf0e903695dfadd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b288a9130d9346458bf0e903695dfadd\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Just a quick question: I was wondering if the Minister could tell us what the job description of the 82 attendance officers that she announced on 21 February this year is, and what their duties are expected to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00221ce882b77fb240b5852fd0d873dc2962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ce882b77fb240b5852fd0d873dc2962\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Minister confirm whether it\u2019s a statutory obligation for Te P\u016Bkenga to have lodged their annual report with the Minister at the beginning of May and if they lodged it at that time, and what an indicative deficit for Te P\u016Bkenga for 2022 is if she can\u2019t give the final figure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002238e3905faeef45769e9004a358d93e02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238e3905faeef45769e9004a358d93e02\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to address the attendance officers. The attendance officers\u2019 job description\u2014although I haven\u2019t got it right in front of me, but, broadly speaking, the 82 attendance officers that we announced are working with young people, or working to increase attendance in young people, who are at risk of falling into that chronic stage of non-attending. These are generally the moderate non-attenders at this stage. There are two parts to their job descriptions, so while it\u2019s not a heavy focus on the caseload, that certainly could be part of it. So I have heard that there are some people agitated that there\u2019s no caseload component; that\u2019s not right, and I\u2019ve asked officials to clarify that with Attendance Service throughout the country as well that that could be part of it. But, really, what we\u2019re looking at is around working with schools to develop their plans and identifying the resources that they need to bring those levels of attendance up. I\u2019m all for early intervention in the attendance space, but I think that sometimes we leave it to the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and I really believe that we need to get in sooner. But I also know that the Attendance Service and those that are working really well in this space are the experts in this area and that they\u2019ve already made connections and that they already have relationships with the families and many of the young people too\u2014because they might have come across them through their siblings as well. So we need to look at their expertise in this area to be able to turn some of the issues around that we\u2019re seeing in the attendance space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002203c4ee14034342d3a4ece68c26928432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c4ee14034342d3a4ece68c26928432\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to report progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5dbe8c6a25f412e88b2026b7ffdc205\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5dbe8c6a25f412e88b2026b7ffdc205\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224a70f89dfcda4f3dba0b6f046651c5b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a70f89dfcda4f3dba0b6f046651c5b5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002224862e29cbe64faeb2ac8b4dab149c5e\u0022\u003EOffices of Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fe5224d6fcb42f69e39c4e2ba07dc99\u0022\u003EAddress to Governor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3b999ce748f4c3dade0faaaf2d2f86b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3b999ce748f4c3dade0faaaf2d2f86b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That a respectful Address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor-General commending to Her Excellency the alterations to the appropriations for the 2022/23 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the Estimates and capital injection for the 2023/24 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is an annual event for the House. It concerns the appropriations for our three Offices of Parliament: the Controller and Auditor-General, the Ombudsman, and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. As is described in the motion that I\u2019ve just moved, it sets out alterations for the year that we\u2019re in now for inclusion in the Supplementary Estimates bill and sets out the main appropriations that will be included in the main appropriation bill that I will introduce on Budget day. The reason we do it this way round is to emphasise the independence of these Offices of Parliament from the executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe proposals in the address have been examined by the Officers of Parliament Committee, which has the Speaker as its chairperson. I want to thank all members of the committee for their careful consideration of these matters, which they did with some advice available to them from Treasury officials. The committee\u2019s report explains the issues behind the numbers proposed in the address, and I\u2019ve no doubt that other members of the committee may choose to address some of those matters in their contributions in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAll three Offices of Parliament are reporting an increasingly complex, changing, and demanding environment that puts additional pressure upon resources. The Auditor-General is facing larger-than-usual deficits over the next three years, which the committee informs us is due to increasing audit complexity\u2014mostly relating to COVID-19\u2014pressure on auditors\u2019 capacity and availability, and audit costs rising faster than audit fees while Audit New Zealand works to increase its staffing. The committee therefore have agreed that a non-recoverable capital injection, totalling $16 million over three years, of $2 million in this financial year, $7 million in the next, and the remainder in the following year are appropriate. Audit delays because of COVID-19 and higher staff turnover are an issue. The committee has told us that the Auditor-General is addressing these issues with approaches that include raising fees and seeking greater financial efficiencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 also continues to have a significant impact on the work of the Ombudsman, whose responsibilities have expanded in recent years, including the managed isolation and quarantine facilities, the protected disclosure Act investigations, and enhanced oversight of Oranga Tamariki. Legislation that has just come into force has also expanded the Ombudsman\u2019s jurisdiction to cover providers of care and custody under Oranga Tamariki. The Ombudsman has welcomed this change, though it will increase work for the office. The Ombudsman\u2019s also forecasting an increase in complaints driven by Cyclone Gabrielle and flooding in 2023. Again, as similar with the Auditor-General, retaining trained staff and experienced staff is also an issue, and the committee tells us that they support a one-off targeted payment for high-performing staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIssues around staffing were also raised by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who faces a growing need to source external, legal, and scientific advice as well. The Parliamentary Commissioner has not sought an increase to his appropriation in this Budget round, though he foresees a need for additional funding in a Budget round in the near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe three Officers of Parliament continue to provide excellent work on behalf of New Zealanders and make a strong contribution to our democracy. I want to reiterate that it is my job here today to move this. This is the report of the Officers of Parliament Committee. They make their decision independent of the executive, but we need to do it now, tonight, so that it gets into the Budget processes that start next week. So, on that basis, I commend this motion to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd32c07d4a2c40548c6fc215a45b57a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd32c07d4a2c40548c6fc215a45b57a0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. I just note that the motion includes the words \u201Cof expenses\u201D, which the Minister did leave out on the fourth line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002280a41db6129a4e4e8c219f7be07a9c1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280a41db6129a4e4e8c219f7be07a9c1b\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to follow the Hon Grant Robertson in speaking to the alterations of the 2022-23 appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. And at the risk of repeating almost word for word what the Hon Grant Robertson has already said, yes, the Officers of Parliament Committee did examine and receive submissions from each Officer detailing, in their words, the proposed alterations to the 2022-23 appropriations, but also their budgets, their draft budgets for 2023-24 and out-years. We did receive advice, and thank you to Treasury officials who came to the committee on three separate occasions and provided advice by way of answers to questions and also offered their expertise and assistance with the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe did recommend to the House, and do recommend that the House commend these alterations, essentially, which have been already outlined to the House and also\u2014so alterations and Estimates\u2014to the Governor-General for inclusion in the main appropriation bill for the coming financial year or, as it may be, in the appropriation bill dealing with the Supplementary Estimates for the current financial year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo turning first to the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, I will focus my comments on their draft Budget request, and a couple of comments on the context by which these requests were made. The Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, as is common with so many other Government agencies, were disrupted by COVID-19, and the Auditor-General\u2019s work programme was significantly impacted by COVID-19 restrictions. As well as that, there has consequently been an increase in public expenditure and also in the complexity of audits as a result of the pandemic, alongside that, for them, issues such as staff turnover have caused audit delays, and also they acknowledge inefficiencies in Audit New Zealand. So there are a number of deficits which Audit New Zealand and the Controller and Auditor-General are facing. And so the proposal by the Auditor-General is to increase audit fees at the rate of 8 percent per annum across all sectors and contract cycles until 2025-26 when increases will reduce, then, to 5 percent per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI was particularly concerned and I did ask the question around how that increase in audit fees will impact on local government, because all of us in this House are aware of cost pressures on everyone but also on local government. However, it is what it is and that is the proposal that was put forward to us and, perhaps, we might not like an increase in audit fees\u2014in particular, for smaller councils\u2014but, none the less, we feel compelled to support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ETurning to the Office of the Ombudsmen, I won\u2019t go into the budget transfer, I don\u2019t have time. However, I will note for the Office of the Ombudsmen that part of the response to COVID-19 included the establishment of managed isolation and quarantine facilities throughout the country. These facilities now fall within the Ombudsman\u2019s Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment oversight role. This of course consequently imposes a cost and timeliness. The Office of the Ombudsmen also seeks additional resources to maintain remuneration levels. He too, or the office as well, is experiencing a period of wage growth and the need to be competitive in today\u2019s job market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ETurning finally and briefly to the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Simon Upton told us that, no, he didn\u2019t want a budget increase, which is laudable and, quite frankly, Simon Upton is a commissioner\u2014the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2014who works within his budget and works well and produces good works. None the less, he did signal to the committee, and therefore to the Crown, that he would in future be seeking a budget expansion. Again, the committee supported this request, as do I.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022412b8355baac4c7c905b1db2108ee115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412b8355baac4c7c905b1db2108ee115\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party today to speak to the motion and the Estimates for Officers of Parliament. It\u2019s a great day for the ACT Party in the sense that we\u2019re now the third-biggest party and we get to speak in advance of other parties, so that\u2019s good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESo in terms of the three areas that we\u2019re discussing, the Auditor-General is forecasting serious deficits in the future years\u2014$8.5 million in 2022-23; $9.1 million in 2023-24. So this requires significant action by the House. We agree with the recommendation to increase funding. So for 2023-24, there will be an increase from $30 million to $38 million. Central and local government spend more time on audits. We have $170 billion worth of public money annually that has to be audited. The Office of the Auditor-General needs to be strengthened as Government prepares its agencies. It includes schools and local governments consistently that failed to deliver on public trust, and the ability of the Government to deliver basic public services has been eroded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EAlso, in 2021-22, the highest number of discretionary reports were published by the Auditor-General in its history. These publications included working on the cost of living payments, water services reforms, the central COVID-19 response, the city rail project\u2014in which the Government learnt a lot, from the Auditor-General, which it didn\u2019t know\u2014and the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme. It is vital and important that the Government programmes are being held to account by the Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the Ombudsman is under pressure, and the recommendation to increase appropriations in 2023-24 will go from $45 million to $54 million. Dealing with increasing numbers of Official Information Act complaints has been occurring in the era of what we were told was the most transparent Government ever. Over the 2021-22 year, we now have set a new record for expenditure, and it\u2019s up 31 percent on the year before. These include silly things like Mr Willie Jackson\u2019s saga over the trend of human errors when his office should have been not blaming process but blaming the Minister himself; the Stuart Nash emails; and the latest saga, which we find out today, from the Minister of Education is that the attendance figures\u2014when asked why they didn\u2019t want to reveal them, they just didn\u2019t want to release them. So this is the sort of stuff that has to be stopped by funding these organisations to do their job absolutely proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EWe note that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment (PCE) is not asking for much at all, and as my colleague said, $3.9 million to go to $4.3 million a year, which, considering the insights and leadership of the PCE, is good value and shows considerable financial discipline from the PCE that other agencies can learn from and should emulate. We don\u2019t always agree with what comes out of there, but even though it does make sense, it\u2019s an important intellectual contribution to New Zealand\u2019s environmental and climate policy, and it seems to be the agency that can do it most effectively. It is regarded as a credible and independent agency unlike any other commission. And Simon Upton has been reappointed to another five-year term, and it\u2019s very pleasing he will get to continue to guide the agency, so $4 million is very small for such an influential agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESo this expenditure has risen because of lack of Government transparency, lack of ability to cost up its projects properly, and it\u2019s called on extra resource from these agencies at a time when we have a cost of living crisis. So we\u2019re especially interested in supporting this tonight. Next year may be different, but it\u2019s important that the Government recognises that this is not just a set of agencies that can be used; it is a set of agencies that have real teeth and will hold them accountable in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002256d4eaa37b1948e48d59ae93fbd27a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256d4eaa37b1948e48d59ae93fbd27a7f\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to rise and take a call on the appropriations for the Offices of Parliament, which includes, as others have covered: Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment (PCE). And these three\u2014just for people who kind of don\u2019t get their heads around Offices of Parliament and what these agencies do\u2014are central parts in our system of scrutiny and accountability of Government to make sure that Government is using money wisely. They provide advice through the Vote Audit in terms of select committees to enable Parliament to do its job, as well as auditing in detail the agencies. They also provide advice\u2014the Ombudsman\u2014around legal accountability for Government agencies, and Ministers, indeed, about whether they are doing their job according to the law. And, of course, PCE has oversight around the environmental protections and standards across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd because some of their findings may be uncomfortable to Governments\u2014and I\u2019m not talking about this Government; I\u2019m talking about Governments generally\u2014the possibility always exists that Governments could choose to run down their funding to lessen scrutiny and accountability. The funding for these agencies, the decisions about it, go to a committee that\u2019s chaired by the Speaker and includes every party in this House. And as you\u2019ll see tonight, they came to consensus around the funding of these organisations. I think it\u2019s one of those really important moments to note, of our Parliament collectively standing by the importance of scrutiny. I look forward to the day when the funding for our Parliament also goes to that committee, because if we believe in the concept of scrutiny and the importance of de-politicising that, then I believe that the funding for this place should also go to that committee on the same principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t want to see that situation\u2014just one other point about taking it out of the normal Budget process; the importance for me is I wouldn\u2019t want to see this being put up against, you know, funding for nurses or teachers and there being a trade-off because scrutiny is not a publicly appealing idea. You talk Ombudsman, most people have no idea what the Ombudsman does\u2014sorry, Justice! But that is the reality\u2014and most people have no idea about the audit process either. But it\u2019s absolutely essential to the checks and balances of power. So it\u2019s great that we avoid that trade-off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo this\u2014and this has been canvassed a little bit, so I\u2019ll go over it fairly quickly\u2014will deliver an increase in funding for the Auditor-General, because they have been experiencing significant funding pressures in the impact of COVID. Delays and audits kind of creating a backlog, an increase in the requirement for audits with new funding streams coming on board to deal with the impacts of COVID and the challenges we\u2019re all facing, and the complexity of those audits as well. At the same time, they\u2019ve been experiencing a real pressure on auditors\u2019 capacity and availability, which has meant that more audits have needed to be contracted out to the private sector, which has an additional cost to it. So audit costs have increased faster than fees. So it was an agreement that we would cover that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAlso, the Ombudsman has had increased roles around the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, which is really important; and included roles in managed isolation and quarantine and ensuring safety of people; protected disclosures; oversight of Oranga Tamariki\u2014quite controversially, we didn\u2019t support that but we do support them being able to do the work that they\u2019ve been given well; and projected complaints related to the cyclone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd then PCE, who didn\u2019t request an increase but it is noting they will be in the future, because they\u2019re really struggling in terms of the increased complexity of the environmental regulatory system and the struggle to get the right qualified people. Really, really important work. Good to have Parliament\u2019s commitment to the continuation of this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228c4b7d18a7b64b23b6f4507ce5c64abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c4b7d18a7b64b23b6f4507ce5c64abb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02b925960f54247a380d71cabb913d1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The proposed address is available on the Table of the House. The question is, That the address be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAddress agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fba443cd0b2e4111a9fbdab7a91b94d6\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dbd3f24cb624213ae80b41386b85672\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00227ad43b8bc1b04244a449b28028556868\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ad43b8bc1b04244a449b28028556868\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker; thank you for your advice. I seek leave to correct an answer to a supplementary question that I gave in answer to question No. 8 today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbe6866b9d0438282642768b0be980b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288037f328e3b41b5befead59629211a2\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: In my answer to supplementary question No. 5 of question No. 8, I said that I did think it was a coincidence. I misinterpreted the question, and have since read the Hansard. I would like to correct my answer to: no, the information has been released under the Official Information Act that shows that it wasn\u2019t a coincidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fee72f3207f34e1c9c1609ec5dc7b882\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246c7232d37d24fbd81cede0596c720c0\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022155f92b69f9f4bcfa0739f497d9ef1fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022155f92b69f9f4bcfa0739f497d9ef1fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I present a legislative statement on the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bd2fdec75142ffbf186cfaac2b6686\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8297287fe0c49898a5d2fff65bad648\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB:\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c6934454d04a0ca909531754498db9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Hurrah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227597459503094962960003bd610b4fe9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: An excellent committee. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 24 August 2023, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill will amend the Social Workers Registration Legislation Act 2019\u2014no surprises there\u2014to extend the experience pathway for social workers\u2019 registration from 28 February 2024 to 28 February 2028. This would be an extension of the current practice for four years. Again, no surprises there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESocial workers play a critical and mana-enhancing role in their communities. They provide much-needed support for some of our most vulnerable people and wh\u0101nau. In recent years, more so than ever, social workers have been critical to supporting New Zealanders through tough times\u2014for example, through the COVID-19 response and in the weather events earlier this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we want to ensure that the social work workforce is supported and empowered to meet the needs of those they work alongside. We passed the Social Workers Registration Legislation Bill in 2019, which required every practising social worker to register with the Social Workers Registration Board under the Social Workers Registration Act 2003. Prior to February 2021, registration was voluntary for people working as social workers. The change was about giving greater protection for some of our most vulnerable people and increasing competency in the social work sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ETo be eligible for registration, applicants must have a prescribed qualification. However, section 13 of the 2003 Act provides an alternative pathway to registration for people with extensive practical experience. The Social Workers Registration Board uses the following assessment criteria for registration through the experience pathway: that the applicant has enough practical experience to compensate for not having a prescribed qualification, usually around 10 to 15 years; that they have demonstrable competence to practise as a social worker; and that they have competence in working with M\u0101ori and ethnic and cultural groups more broadly. All applicants for registration must also pass the fit and proper person test to practise as a social worker. This provides the basis for determining the safety of social workers to practise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ECurrently, this experience pathway is set to expire on 28 February 2024. This delayed repeal date was intended to support the social work sector to transition from voluntary to mandatory registration by allowing unregistered social workers time to either complete a prescribed qualification or to apply to register under section 13. Initially, this date was set based on a view that a qualification would provide the main mechanism for professionalisation of the workforce and an assumption that there would be sufficient workforce supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESince then, there have been several significant shifts in the operating environment for social workers, which contributed to the Government bringing this bill to extend the pathway. COVID-19 has exacerbated need amongst some communities, creating an increased demand for social work services which cannot be met by the current workforce. Social worker vacancies are growing nationally. Indicative data from the Social Worker Registration Board\u2019s Annual Social Work Workforce Survey 2022 suggests an estimated shortfall of around 700 social workers. This bill will therefore ensure that by retaining an experienced pathway to registration, we don\u2019t limit the pipeline for social workers into the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOn top of this, the Government recently announced a pay equity extension for social workers in the Government-funded sector, and it\u2019s estimated to lift the pay of around 5,000 employees and will help to correct disparities in access to professional development between Government and NGO employees. It also removes some of the cost barriers of maintaining registration. The extension includes payment for annual practising certificates, professional development, and supervision costs. We know that these costs can prohibit a social worker\u2019s ability to maintain their mandatory annual practising certificate. The pay equity extension is likely to create an incentive for people doing substantially similar work to social workers to apply for higher-paying social worker roles, which they need to become registered for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe heard directly from social service organisations that the pay equity settlement will be a major change for them and that they believe people working in the social sector who meet registration requirements may now register formally as social workers as a result of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EDelaying the removal of the experience pathway will therefore support the social sector to transition to this major shift in its operating environment. Another important shift is that there has been an increase in recognition of the importance of indigenous knowledge in the social sector more broadly to reflect the range of communities they serve. The Social Workers Registration Board has made changes to the experience pathway in recent years to ensure that it is more culturally responsive and inclusive of kaupapa M\u0101ori approaches, and we\u2019ve seen the number of M\u0101ori registering through the experience pathway increase since 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe have heard from sector representatives\u2014the Tangata Whenua Social Workers Association\u2014that they support an extension of the experience pathway in order to ensure that tangata whenua kaimahi, and iwi and social services have the opportunity to register as social workers, and there is more time to further consider indigenous knowledge and practices in social work training before the experience pathway is repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important to note that the experience pathway to social work registration has shown to be a useful mechanism for social worker registration without diminishing the safety or competency of the workforce. There is no evidence to suggest that experienced social workers without a prescribed qualification, who otherwise meet the registration requirements, are less safe or competent than academically qualified social workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Social Workers Registration Board and social work sector partners have identified that there\u2019s likely to be a long-term place for vocational pathways to social worker registration, but more work is needed to explore what future pathways need to look like. They are also working with education sector and social work sector partners on improving the accessibility of social worker registration, training, and qualifications. Delaying the repeal of section 13 will enable this work to be further developed before the experience pathway is removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESocial workers provide an essential front-line service to individuals, wh\u0101nau, and communities. Having a social work workforce that is responsive to increasingly complex and diverse needs is crucial. This bill ensures that the experience pathway can continue for a further four years so that we do not exacerbate workforce shortages in the coming years, can leverage benefits of the pay equity settlement, and enable better recognition of indigenous knowledge and experience in the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the social work representatives who reached out to the Government in support of this extension and advocated for their workforce. I want to end by thanking all of the social workers for doing the mahi. You undertake difficult and challenging work with people who are often highly vulnerable, and this is an incredibly valuable service for our communities. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220d60d37d0b90472cb13aca70f6a6163d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d60d37d0b90472cb13aca70f6a6163d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224c9718278296499dbfd5dd8bfa984d74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c9718278296499dbfd5dd8bfa984d74\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to thank the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, the Minister resuming his seat, for outlining some of the intent behind the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill, but what was clearly lacking in it was the explanation of why a four-year extension is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I just want to take members of the House, and those who are following the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill debate, back a bit, because improvements in social work have been something that has crossed over Governments of both persuasions over the years; in effect, starting back in 2003, when the legislation was first put in. It\u2019s all around ensuring the safety of the public and enhancing the professionalism of social workers, and then, during National\u2019s time, when Anne Tolley was the Minister in charge, it then moved towards mandatory registration. So it has been a long time in coming. The legislation introduced by Anne Tolley was introduced in 2017 and it passed in 2019. But I want to bring back to the House some of the reasons why this mandatory registration was seen to be so important, because that is a big part of my questioning around why it is an extension of four years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe do know that social workers across New Zealand work in health, work in justice, work in education, work in social services and child protection\u2014they work with some of our most vulnerable New Zealanders, and the work they do is just so critical. So part of the move to make social workers\u2019 registration mandatory was recognising that it was about lifting the skills and the professionalism of the sector. Actually, having spoken at the Social Service Providers Aotearoa conference last week, the common feedback is just the level of complexity that New Zealanders are presenting with now, and I think that reinforces why that requirement is for mandatory registration. Increasingly, social workers are dealing with children, young people, adults, and families with complex high needs. That was identified when the legislation was introduced in 2017. I think that if you roll forward from there, over the last couple of years, and now what we\u2019re seeing in recent months\u2014and this is currently being faced by some parts of the country today\u2014are weather events that are providing even greater challenges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo there is a need for social workers\u2014full stop. I accept the fact that there is a challenge in terms of the supply of social workers but also we must hold fast to continuing to increase the skills and professionalism. One of the things that was enabled by the mandatory registration process is ongoing development, and I want to also acknowledge the Social Workers Registration Board. They did significant work at the time when the kind of registration deadline approached, and that was 2021. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe law was introduced in 2017, it was passed in 2019, then the voluntary registration expired and became mandatory in 2021, and then there was the experience pathway available up until 2024, and so I haven\u2019t heard a sufficient argument yet in terms of why there is an extension of four years. I have some suspicions. One of the suspicions one of my colleagues, perhaps, wouldn\u2019t be surprised about, and that is the state of vocational education and the massive reform that\u2019s under way. I wonder if that\u2019s had an impact. I wonder if that\u2019s been a contributing factor in terms of those not taking that pathway for the qualification route. So I might keep my suspicion for another day on that way\u2014my colleague Penny Simmonds is nodding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut while we always accepted that the experience pathway is a valid and important pathway, I\u2019m not sure why\u2014even if it did require an extension\u2014it needs to be for four years. That\u2019s a very long time from now, and I think there are still multiple challenges that aren\u2019t addressed by this legislation. The pay equity, I think, will be a significant step, but it does feel as if it\u2019s taking for ever, and I know that for those who are working in the sector\u2014I think about some that I met with just last week\u2014they are tired and they are feeling very under pressure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the things that is adding extra pressure is the ongoing red tape and bureaucracy that the current Government is imposing upon them, and so I wondered if part of the conversation, instead of just pushing out the deadline for this pathway for four years, would be to actually look at some of the things that get in the way. It was a shocking figure: 55 percent of social workers\u2019 time is spent doing admin\u201455 percent. Now, if I think about it, and I\u2019m picturing a whole range of faces of social workers that I know in my electorate and across those that I come into contact with in my portfolio responsibilities\u2014man, they provide magic. They do magic in their communities. To spend 55 percent of their time doing admin does seem quite a waste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, this pathway being extended for four years is, I think, concerning. I wonder if some of it is just another element of non-delivery where the Government didn\u2019t get on and do what they needed to do, and that may well have been to encourage and support more to take the academic route or to look at a more vocationally based, blended training model for apprenticeships, which we know work so well in other areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EInstead, what we have is the request of the Government to extend it for four years, and it says, basically, that it\u2019s because of the pay equity settlement, of which we have no idea. Does that mean the pay equity settlement will be four years away? Goodness, I hope not. It\u2019s only at stage four of 10 stages, so four years does seem a long way away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe social worker workforce supply and demand pressures\u2014the comment in the statement from the Minister was that it\u2019s been exacerbated by COVID-19. I think it\u2019s fair to say that it existed before COVID-19. It\u2019s not necessarily a new problem, and even if you said, \u201COK, it\u2019s exacerbated by COVID-19.\u201D, then maybe the logical extension would be for two years. But, again, the extension that the Government want to put through today is four years. The other one is this\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the work that kaimahi do around the country, but I wouldn\u2019t have thought that it was a new issue in terms of ensuring equitable pathways for kaimahi to be registered social workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo, again, it seems as if this issue has been blown up a bit. It was an issue when the legislation was introduced in 2017. Part of having the experience pathway in place was to absolutely recognise the people that have worked in our communities not just for 10 or 15 years but for 20, 30, 40 years, in many cases, and to make sure that through the mandatory registration we didn\u2019t lose them from the social work profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut it is important also that part of that mandatory registration is having all social workers having to meet appropriate standards and undertake ongoing professional development as part of renewing their annual practising certificate. So it\u2019s not just kind of getting to the line; it\u2019s actually making sure that the social workers are supported, and, as I\u2019ve said before, given the complexity that many of the social workers are increasingly facing, I think that those elements are incredibly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I do think the four-year extension case hasn\u2019t been put to the Parliament today. We will be supporting this legislation, with reservations, and the other obvious reservation\u2014which we will get to\u2014is: why on earth, yet again, is Labour ramming through another piece of legislation with a shortened report-back? If the extension is for four years and the deadline for this expires in 2024, why is it that they insist on ramming it through and doing it without the full process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00226268c32642d34954a53049020831424a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226268c32642d34954a53049020831424a\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to stand and speak on this bill. The Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill is something that I have been really delighted to read. It\u2019s a very short bill, and it just changes the date, as we\u2019ve heard from the member the Hon Louise Upston, who has resumed her seat. It gives an extra four years for the ability to apply under section 13 using experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ENow, the reason I\u2019m delighted to stand and speak to this bill is that, no, I\u2019m not a social worker, but I have spent a large proportion of my work life working alongside social workers, and what I can say is that there is a number of extraordinary practitioners out there who do not hold qualifications. They do not hold qualifications, yet their work is lifesaving, their work is incredibly professional, and their work is absolutely strength-based and empathetic, and the thing about that is that it is also safe practice. So I\u2019m really delighted that this pathway remains for another four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually quite a difficult process to become qualified in this manner, and, in fact, I have helped and supported and mentored a number of people into this pathway, and it has taken them up to two years to do that, to gather the evidence. So I am delighted that we have a four-year window for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI just want to very quickly say, as well, today we have got some really nasty adverse weather events happening. We\u2019ll have our emergency services in there on the front line\u2014I acknowledge that\u2014but after that, it will be our social workers who are in those homes. It will be our social workers who are there in the community, in the emergency accommodation, and all of the places that they need to be in order to help and support our community. So with that very short speech, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00229a8c9d71228f4c0ca23fe7b5584948a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a8c9d71228f4c0ca23fe7b5584948a9\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in support, but with reservations, of the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill. Just to be very clear: the bill is seeking to delay that repeal of the experience pathway as a means of registering to have a qualification prescribed by the Social Workers Registration Board; repealing that to a further four years, to 2028. The current law allows for that experience pathway, and it\u2019s not an unusual thing to have that recognition of prior learning being given the recognition that it should have. The bill is seeking to have that four-year extension, which my colleague has questioned the need for it being quite that far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo the National Party actually introduced the Social Workers Registration Legislation Bill in August 2017. It was particularly important in that it did the following: made the registration for social work compulsory, protected the use of the title \u201Csocial worker\u201D, and ensured that social workers were competent and fit to practise. It was entirely appropriate for those matters to be introduced in that bill, because, as Dr Webb said earlier, our social workers are often working with the most vulnerable New Zealanders, and it\u2019s absolutely important that those vulnerable people are kept safe. It\u2019s not unusual when a profession is going through a transition period of going from unregulated to regulated to have that ability to recognise the experience of workers in that industry who may not have undertaken a formal qualification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI do at this point want to acknowledge all our social workers, whether they are formally and academically qualified or have had their registration recognised by the board because of the experience that they have amassed over many years. So I want to acknowledge those social workers and I want to acknowledge the challenges and the emotional toll that their work has on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge those in the tertiary sector who teach the social worker qualifications. Many of these qualifications are in the vocational education sector. I want to comment a little on the thoughts of my colleague the Hon Louise Upston, who was concerned that some of the upheaval in the vocational education sector may well be impacting on the numbers that are being taken into those training programmes. So I acknowledge the anxiety that many of those tutors might be feeling in those social worker qualifications now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe other point that the Hon Louise Upston made was that 55 percent of social workers\u2019 time is doing admin. I\u2019m almost certain that social workers with a passion for working with the most vulnerable, with helping people, do not have an equal amount of passion for doing administration. So that is something that I am sure must be weighing heavily on a number of social workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI think of Awarua Whanau Services, who I visited last week, who do wonderful work in Southland, and I want to acknowledge them. They have, of course, nurses and midwives and other health workers, but they also have a number of social workers who are under considerable stress and pressure at the moment. Many of their comments aligned with that fact that we just talked about before, of 55 percent of their time being spent on admin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very pleased that the Hon Duncan Webb outlined how the process is undertaken for social workers to get their registration recognised through the experience pathway, and that it is in no way inferior to a pathway of a formal qualification. For anyone who might be listening, it is quite a formal process: portfolios have to be submitted; the story of the pathway of the social worker; how they got into social work; their relevant employment history, and, often, that is of a really significant period and often actually predating when there were formal qualifications; and any other qualifications that they might hold\u2014and I\u2019m aware that many of them might hold ancillary qualifications, but qualifications that, none the less, are very important to the work that they do. I think of things like level 2, 3, and 4 in Te Ara Reo M\u0101ori\u2014qualifications that many social workers have undertaken. They must have details of professional development they have done, and also be able to demonstrate that they have the competence to work in the social work field. So it is not a simple process; it\u2019s a very complex process, and one which if they are recognised as gaining the experience pathway to being a registered social worker, that they have demonstrated considerable skills, experience, knowledge, and ability. So I just want to reinforce what the Hon Duncan Webb said about the importance of that pathway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo this extension really is largely\u2014as I can see it\u2014in part due to the Government\u2019s inability to make progress in that pay equity settlement. So it\u2019s of real concern that the length of extension that is being asked for is four years. When we have a look at the Public Service Commission website on the pay equity settlement, it\u2019s currently at the stage of data cross-checking, which is the fourth stage of 10 stages. So, unless the next six stages are incredibly quick, it does assume that that process has a long way to go. So I assume what the Government is looking for is a safety net of a time frame through this legislation. I\u2019d have to say that four years is probably pushing things, really, further than, I\u2019m sure, a number of social workers would want to see. Look, it\u2019s not unusual in that sort of transition phase of a vocation or a profession becoming more regulated, to have a period where those with experience are being recognised. But another four years seems an extraordinarily long period, and given that most social workers now would be coming to the registration process through having a qualification, it does really beg the question of why the Government feel that they need to give themselves this length of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is of concern\u2014and the Hon Louise Upston commented on it as well\u2014is: given the legislation goes through until 2024 now, the extension is for four years to 2028, why on earth ram it through with a shortened consultation period? Why not take the full consultation period and why not give respect to this vocation, this profession of social workers, to have a full consultation period, rather than trying to ram it through, given the time periods that we are looking at, 2024 and being taken out to 2028?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo we are supporting this at this first reading. We are supporting it with reservations. In doing so, though, we acknowledge the wonderful work that our social workers do out in the community\u2014both those who are formally, academically qualified, but also those who have gone through the experience pathway. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226e0888f5191945999f376b1c4a7affc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e0888f5191945999f376b1c4a7affc7\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Social workers play a mana-enhancing role within our communities. They play a transformational role within many families in our communities, and they are so necessary and continue to be necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, in my adult years working with young people, I\u2019ve experienced and worked alongside social workers in places like school classrooms and in my home or, at other times, in police cells\u2014sadly, in prison cells, at times, as well\u2014as well as down the streets, and in other parts of our society. Social workers have had to step in and work and walk alongside me and young people that we have been working with. For me, it\u2019s seeing the crucial and the important role they play, and therefore we need to get this piece of legislation through to ensure that we can extend this piece of work, that we can ensure we have good social workers working within our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s around enhancing the professionalism. It\u2019s enhancing the safety, not only for the social workers but for those they are working with, and for those within their communities. This is important legislation. I just want to say thank you to the social workers throughout Aotearoa New Zealand, who do such a coalface piece of work in terms of supporting our most vulnerable. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022990c0da4a89247f495c6a9477c0b165c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022990c0da4a89247f495c6a9477c0b165c\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand on behalf of ACT and speak to the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill. When I first read this, I was a little bit concerned. It appeared that we\u2019re just kicking the can down the road because we can\u2019t meet an obligation by a certain time frame. People have known that this time frame has been coming and we\u2019ve known that this was going to be repealed in 2024 for quite a while, and it just feels that the Government has not come to the party to make sure that we have filled this gap in the time frame that they wanted\u2014especially seeing as, since 2021, the requirement was made that it was compulsory to be registered with the Social Workers Registration Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003ESo we knew this was going to cause an issue for people who were working within the industry from 2021, who didn\u2019t have a formal qualification, and who were working with life experience\u2014which is on board with the educational process but, unfortunately, now you are required to register with the board and you must have this qualification. And so going through this experience pathway seems like quite a convoluted process. It can take a very long time, from what I\u2019ve heard. Sometimes they can get quite far through the process and can be denied anyway, and then may have to go through the education sector to become qualified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EMy concern is that according to\u2014well, how I see it is, since 2021, these people haven\u2019t been able to work within the sector, in social work practice. So that\u2019s two years already. And then we\u2019re going to extend this out to 2024, so we could have people that have not worked within the sector for up to six years. Things change very quickly within the sector. I spoke at a panel last week, the social workers\u2019 panel. The concern is that social work practice has got quite bureaucratic-al. There\u2019s a lot of processes to follow, and now a lot of red tape, and it\u2019s quite complicated. Unless you know what you\u2019re doing, you can actually get yourself into quite a bit of a pickle. They\u2019re spending a lot of time doing paperwork and doing admin, rather than actually doing their jobs. The admin side may be something that social workers who haven\u2019t practised for four or five years may not have the knowledge of, and they may need to go through their educational sector to build up their skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EI\u2019m glad that we\u2019ve been doing the pay equity within the social services sector, because these people do amazing jobs. They\u2019re out there and they\u2019re in our communities, and they\u2019re dealing with, sometimes, the most vulnerable people within our communities. But they\u2019re also dealing with some of the most volatile situations, where they can walk into quite dangerous environments and have to have the skills to know how to cope with that and how to de-escalate situations and how to work with families and with children and with the sector, and make sure that they\u2019re following all these complex rules in the background as well. So I feel we need to be making sure that they\u2019ve had this option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EBut there comes a time where kicking the can down the road isn\u2019t actually going to make much of a difference. Is the education sector ready to take on board the new people wanting to go through the social worker qualifications, and, if not, is that something we also need to acknowledge\u2014that this may be a problem, that we\u2019re not set up within the educational sector to bring on the 700 shortfall of social workers, and that by just looking at having these experience pathways coming in isn\u2019t actually going to fill the gap of the 700 shortage? I\u2019m not quite sure it will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EThe prices to actually go through this experience pathway are quite high. I was looking, and you\u2019re looking at around $3,500, and that\u2019s a lot of money coming out of someone\u2019s pocket to go through a process where there\u2019s actually no guarantee that you\u2019re going to get to the end of that process and have this qualification. So the educational sector pathway deal we need to be promoting a bit more, upskilling people a bit more. In the modern era of where social work has gone\u2014because it may not be the same as it was 10 years ago\u2014are we actually making sure that these people are prepared and ready and we\u2019re not setting them up to fail, going into an industry that they may not be able to cope with now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWe have gone through some of the hardest times in the last few years, where families have been through turmoil times. We have communities now where mental health services are not available, and social workers are going into situations that sometimes could be quite dangerous for them, could be quite dangerous for the people working alongside them. And we need to support the whole sector. In the education system, we have children that just aren\u2019t coping anymore; that are socially behind about three or four years. In the health sector, we\u2019ve got people that can\u2019t find a bed and that can\u2019t find a home. And these social workers are actually going further than what they had been for quite a while. So we need to make sure that they do have the skills to cope with these new issues that have come forward. And with the floods that are happening in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and Auckland and Northland, and just the devastation that we\u2019ve seen over the last few years, this sector really needs to be backed a lot more than what they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EThe four years just seems a long time to push this along. I\u2019m looking forward to hearing from the select committee and hearing from the sector as to why we\u2019re looking at the four years, and hearing from the sector about why this has become an issue and why it\u2019s taken so long for some of these people to actually go through the experience pathway. What were the barriers? What\u2019s going to change now that\u2019s going to make a difference, that those barriers aren\u2019t actually there anymore? And are there other things that we need to actually be looking at and hear from the social sector to hear what the problems actually are to getting registered through that experience pathway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EACT will support this bill, with reservations, but I\u2019m really looking forward to hearing from the sector and hearing from the people that were working on the ground, have had years of experience, but haven\u2019t gone through that experience pathway. I\u2019d like to know why they haven\u2019t done that and why this will make a difference for them to do that in the future. So thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00227e32aaceb89c4bdd8981d7640c7c9626\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e32aaceb89c4bdd8981d7640c7c9626\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill, which, in effect, will delay the repeal of the experience pathway for social worker registrations for four years until 2028. As has been canvassed, this pathway has existed since 2003 and it was meant to be repealed in February next year. I guess it\u2019s worth noting that this pathway was intended to provide people who have experience in relevant social work practice\u2014for them to become registered. It\u2019s important to note that there has been a huge range of benefits to this pathway in that it also has created the conditions for about 25 percent of people coming in being M\u0101ori, and increasing the number of M\u0101ori social workers that we have, where the community has given really, really strong feedback.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs somebody who, prior to being an MP, acted as a field educator training incoming social workers\u2014and shout-out to the students from Unitec and Massey University\u2014I can see why this pathway is really important, because we would have registered social workers who would often come to my previous workplace of Auckland Action Against Poverty, who themselves had very little relevant knowledge of how, for example, Work and Income worked, and yet we have members of our community working not necessarily as registered social workers but who had a depth of knowledge and experience in doing advocacy for members of their communities, who actually could become incredibly competent registered social workers, yet there was no pathway for them to be recognised prior to this. Sometimes, re-entering university was simply not a feasible option for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI take the point that previous members have made regarding some of the challenges in the sector. Those are all really worthwhile challenges for us to throw at the Government, regarding pay, regarding just general uptake of social workers, the social workers themselves feeling valued, and the cost of entering this experience pathway. But I think, at the core, what this bill is aiming to do is to protect a pathway that has had benefits, and I do also look forward to submitters then being able to unpack what else there is that we need to do to ensure that this pathway maintains its relevancy and that it continues being fit for purpose, acknowledging that it would now be 20 years old in terms of, for example, the requirements that we ask people and the sort of criteria that we set for people coming into that pathway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut it is important that we do build a valued, well-paid, and resourced social worker workforce, because they\u2019re key to ensuring that our communities are able to access their legal entitlements, to support them feeling connected, and that we have a diverse workforce as well so that our migrant communities, our Pacific and M\u0101ori communities, feel like they can access support in a way that is culturally competent. So we look forward to the submissions from the public, and the Green Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002259124c059b37440d9a62f8156dd4fce4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259124c059b37440d9a62f8156dd4fce4\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI just want to say a couple of things. Social workers are hugely important and to work with some of the most vulnerable people in our community\u2014and I know we\u2019ve got a couple of social workers in the House whose experience and knowledge will speak directly to this\u2014it\u2019s really important that we support them in their work by ensuring that they are safe to practise, and that\u2019s the whole point of registration in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EHowever, in saying that, we all know lots of people who have worked in the social work field, very competent, compassionate, and capable people, who, for one reason or another, have not gone through a formal education process but have all the skills and hallmarks of good social work practice to their core and have this opportunity through the experience pathway to then become recognised as a registered social worker. We should provide them with that opportunity, because it is important for us to have competent social workers and it is important for us to grow the pool of social workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EHowever, in saying that, at the same time we are sending a very strong message that this experience pathway will at some point no longer be available and we really want to encourage people to take the opportunity that our institutions can provide in terms of that skill set and those qualifications. They are a hugely valuable workforce to us, and I can\u2019t say more so than in recent times when we as a country have gone through some very difficult times. I support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6faf51824684149b6f1af25ced93a2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6faf51824684149b6f1af25ced93a2a\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i te p\u014D nei. E te M\u0101ngai, koutou ko ng\u0101 ruahine, ruanuku, rua rangatahi, o t\u0113nei Whare ataahua, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[Greetings to all of us tonight. To the Speaker, and also the sage-like ladies, the enlightened men, and enlightened youth of this beautiful House, greetings to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to speak briefly to the first reading of the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill. I\u2019m reminded of a great man called Taina Pohatu, who used to spend many days in the M\u0101ngere campus of Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa, down there at Canning Crescent, just around the corner from the KFC, who was a doyen of social worker methodology and pedagogy; someone who was a real visionary in the M\u0101ori education space around social work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E I acknowledge that the social workers that I\u2019ve met are huge contributors to our hapori, to our communities, and that good social workers generate very positive outcomes in health, especially mental health, family health, wh\u0101nau health. People like my wife\u2019s niece, Jannica Clark, and her colleagues in Hamilton West\u2014actually down there on Collingwood Street\u2014working in tough situations like Melville, Bader, and, my personal favourite, Fairfield.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe bill extends the time of the experience pathway as a means of registering for the Social Workers Registration Board, and the delay is sought for four years. I acknowledge the comments made about the need for this. Some of you might recall that the National Party, Te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara, introduced the Social Workers Registration Legislation Bill way back in 2017\u2014different time and place. So we support this bill\u2014tautoko. E tautoko ana te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara i t\u0113nei pire [The National Party supports this bill] at this first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ENow, the experience pathway requires the board to be satisfied of an individual\u2019s experience and whether it\u2019s sufficient, instead of having a recognised qualification. The main criteria, of course: the story of one\u2019s pathway into social work\u2014and some people have quite an intrepid journey into social work, through sports, some through culture, some through addiction. They get there with those experiences, and take those experiences with them, and are able to actively engage and listen to those people that they seek to help\u2014their employment history and herstory, other qualifications held, and competence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ERetaining the experience pathway, in my view, allows for the continued demand\u2014high demand for social work\u2014to be better met for the kaimahi that are working in this space, and credentialises those who have the clear work experience, and, actually, the life experience, in order to help those people in need, to help those people that need that tautoko, and to practise as officially registered social workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EClearly, and my colleagues may have socialised this, the issue that we have is that the context of the proposed delay is that we\u2019ve got an ongoing challenge to make progress in the pay equity settlement. Reading through the Public Service Commission\u2019s website, there is an implication that the work required to sort this matter will not be completed in the foreseeable future. So there is some mahi to be done, there is some mahi to address those outstanding pay equity issues, but it\u2019s one that I look forward\u2014ultimately\u2014to closure around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere probably aren\u2019t enough good social workers out there, given the great demand for kaimahi hauora, but we agree that a delay of four years seems safe, and, more importantly, gives the Government time to address the settlement issues that remain outstanding. I want to take my p\u014Dtae off. Ka tangohia taku p\u014Dtae ki a [I take my hat off to] Taina Pohatu me t\u014Dna momo\u2014Taina Pohatu and those members of his ilk in the academic and practice professions of social work. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad058b0e85aa4004b2c45eaf83a1b02d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad058b0e85aa4004b2c45eaf83a1b02d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Tangi Utikere\u2014five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022854ae405a89944008d23b02b75142704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022854ae405a89944008d23b02b75142704\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take what will be a brief call on this bill. I want to add to the chorus in acknowledging the work that social workers do in communities all around this country. I certainly do not disagree with any of the comments and contributions that members have made in the House this evening in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis amendment bill is about ensuring that there is some certainty for those who have a pathway to registration for social work based on the experience route. Sure, there are opportunities for qualifications to be gained\u2014that is one particular way in which a professional in this field may gain registration; ensuring that there is some certainty within the experience pathway is another. It\u2019s interesting to note that the things that are taken into account are largely based around experience\u2014for many, that\u2019s many, many years working in the sector as a social worker\u2014but also that they\u2019re able to demonstrate some competence. So it\u2019s not just about the number of years that a social worker may have been in the job or doing the role but ensuring that they maintain competence as a practitioner but also ensuring that the whole various range of different cultural competencies are there as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that is not about lowering the bar; it is about ensuring that there is certainty for a period of four years to those who currently have a route to registration within the social work field, that being experience. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002209cef97e6be2409f97a2a260bb12f677\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209cef97e6be2409f97a2a260bb12f677\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. In my time in the hospital system, social workers were a crucial part of the team, and what their role was was to work with patients and their wh\u0101nau, who were often in very difficult circumstances, and connect them through to the services that they needed, but also to make sure that they had a safe place to return to when we discharged them home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s also crucial, given the important role they play in people\u2019s lives, that social workers have the relevant training and experience. And this is why the Government passed the Social Workers Registration Legislation Bill in 2019, which required everyone practising as a social worker to register with the Social Workers Registration Board. But it also recognised that there was a number of people practising as social workers in the community who, while they didn\u2019t have the relevant academic qualifications, had had experience over a number of years. And so, basically, what this bill also recognised was the need for something like the experience pathway, which was in the original Social Workers Registration Act. And so that was retained for a period of time, which would allow people in this situation to register with the Social Workers Registration Board based on their experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut as we\u2019ve heard in the House tonight, the experience pathway is due to be repealed on 28\u00A0February 2024, and what this bill will do is extend that for another four years so that people in this situation have that pathway available to them for that period. So it\u2019s a very simple bill, but it\u2019s an important bill, and I\u2019m happy to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022273ca527ab0b406b824f3b37e68f4765\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022273ca527ab0b406b824f3b37e68f4765\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, thank you. I\u2019m the last to take a call for the National Party on the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill at the first reading. My colleague the Hon Louise Upston has expressed that the National Party does support this bill, although there\u2019s some reservation. That reservation is associated with the timing or the timeliness where the process is being expedited to take it through to select committee, and being opened up for public comment with scrutiny but being delayed in terms of the repeal being extended out by four years from 28 February 2024 to 2028.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe commentary or the debate that\u2019s been expressed in the House this evening\u2014there\u2019s a sense of rationale for that around pay parity issues for social workers. On that point, I want to do a shout-out to our social workers in Aotearoa New Zealand. I\u2019ve had the distinct privilege, in some years past in my life, of having served alongside a number of social workers in the days when we worked together in Child, Youth and Family Service. That was back in Whanganui, and I\u2019m going to do a shout-out\u2014because I often correlate relationships back to bills that I have the privilege of standing and speaking to, addressing the House and the public on\u2014to social workers back home in Whanganui. Tasi Sua, who was probably the longest-serving social worker in the history of Whanganui social work. Tasi has probably given a good 40 years of dedicated service in this space, and he\u2019s well-known in the community for the good work that he has done intergenerationally. Shout out also to Christina Gush. Christina and I, we started out together\u2014where it just happened to be in my former life as a lawyer\u2014working in Child, Youth and Family Service. I taught the legal component to the social work bachelor\u2019s programme back in Whanganui, and this bill, in part, is looking at the importance of social worker competency and registration. And that\u2019s for those who went through the institutions of a Bachelor of Social Work or social work diplomas. So I worked with social workers in that space, and we had that journey of experience towards their registration as social workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThis bill is addressing an alternative in terms of experience pathway for those social workers who come from life practice and experience of not having gone through the bachelor or the diploma or the formal tertiary education institution system for that training. And so it\u2019s very important that there is that avenue, particularly when our nation is in crisis mode with all the fallout that, effectively, social workers are having to pick up the pieces and try and band-aid or mend. And so with this bill, as has been heard in the debates before the House, there is that formal pathway, but this is recognising those social workers registered by way of an alternative experience pathway meeting or satisfying competency and requirements that are assessed by the Social Workers Registration Board. And again, the chair of that board is Shannon Pakura. Shannon was the chief social worker of Child, Youth and Family Service in the days when I served in the office back in Whanganui. Shannon whakapapas to Whanganui too, relationships. And importantly, Shannon has taken her vast lifetime of commitment and service as a social worker, as a former chief social worker with the organisation now known as Oranga Tamariki, and, applying her skill, her analysis, her experience, and her service in that role of chair of the Social Workers Registration Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe National Party does support this bill. We value social workers and the valued work and commitment that they give to our people and our communities of Aotearoa. But it seems that the reason that this bill\u2014in terms of the experience pathway that has been extended out for another four years, is because the Government has been a bit slow on the pace in picking up and addressing the pay parity issue to value our social workers. That\u2019s been done now, but it\u2019s not happening quickly enough. Like everything else, slow on delivery. Where there\u2019s value, there needs to be recognition, and the timeliness of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the issue that the National Party has is we value our social workers and valued them to the extent and the point of not dragging and delaying necessary matters that need to be put before this Government and passed into law. So, also on a final note and commentary, I did a little bit of research and I saw that on 21 March this year, which was World Social Work Day, the Social Workers Registration Board published its findings of a 2022 workforce survey. And that survey identified that the biggest challenge for the sector is recruitment and retention. Thus, the importance of the experience pathway where there haven\u2019t been enough social workers go through that formal institutionalised tertiary level - type training. And that the other challenge is followed closely by pay parity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the point is the National Party supports this, but, the Government: get on and deliver. Stop dragging the chains on this. Value the people who need to be valued, most importantly, for the contributions that are being made, particularly at this time when Aotearoa New Zealand is in a state of crisis. The National Party commends the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022dad1f505660f4670926b301b0b738b91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dad1f505660f4670926b301b0b738b91\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Noa\u2019ia e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s always a privilege to speak in this House, but particularly on this bill, the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill, because, I am a registered social worker and I know what it\u2019s like to be a social worker, to manage social workers\u2014and I know what it\u2019s like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo, before I get on to that, I want to acknowledge the weather event in Auckland, and as the Labour list MP based in Papakura, I want to thank the Papakura Marae, who have opened up their door to accept people in tonight. So, please, do go out to Papakura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESocial work is a calling, and I want to thank everyone that has chosen social work to be their calling, and, if you think about social work, I want to invite those who are interested in social work to, please, enter into social work. In 2003, the legislation came in. I was a youth justice manager in \u014Ct\u0101huhu at the time, and it took me four years to register. And that\u2019s how long it takes for someone in the field to think about registration, to fit it within their workplace, and to support others to do that. So one of the reasons why I registered as the manager was to encourage social workers to register. The year 2025 is when the Social Workers Registration Board will put in their review of the Act, so having an extension to 2028 makes sense, because if they make recommendations from the review of the social workers registration, then we can take these four years into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI would love to speak about the work carried out by social workers, but I think we\u2019ve heard enough from the House today. But I just want to say to social workers who could be probation officers, who could be working at Oranga Tamariki, who could be at the hospital, and who could serve the community and its most vulnerable people, thank you for what you do in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important one, and I commend the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill to the House. M\u0101l\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e20e140768744d93842014925e233728\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e20e140768744d93842014925e233728\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8126edf0fda447ba6f8c26e0779c826\u0022\u003EInstruction to Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00226c4233efe77d467bbbdec44c9b7cb4a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c4233efe77d467bbbdec44c9b7cb4a7\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I move that the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 24 August 2023, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill needs to be passed by 27 February 2024 to avoid the experience pathway being repealed. Having the experience pathway unavailable, even if only for a short period, may create confusion for the sector at a time of significant change. Completing the select committee process before the 2023 election will reduce the risk of a delay by allowing the bill\u2019s second and third readings to be ready to be progressed once the House begins sitting following the formation of the 54th New Zealand Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes a single change to the Social Workers Registration Legislation Act 2019 to delay the repeal of section 13 of the Social Workers Registration Act 2003 from 27 February 2024 to 28\u00A0February 2028. This change continues existing practice for four more years and will enable the sector to respond to significant changes in their operating environment, including the Government\u2019s extension of the social worker pay equity settlement that provides a financial incentive for social workers to become registered through the experience pathway, the social worker workforce supply and demand pressures that have been exacerbated by COVID-19 and increasing recognition of the value of indigenous practice in social work, and ensuring equitable pathways into the social work profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Social Development has worked closely with the Social Workers Registration Board and engaged with the social work sector to inform the developments of the bill. There is sector support for a temporary extension of the experience pathway to enable the social sector to adapt to significant changes in its operating environment. The low complexity of this change, as well as the sector support for the proposal, makes the slightly shorter select committee process appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00220380b0fa5cba4e32ac2295e0ee917374\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220380b0fa5cba4e32ac2295e0ee917374\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Here we are again. Here we are: same Minister, different bill, still a shortened report back. And I\u2019m fascinated, because the Minister who\u2019s just resumed her seat, the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2014who is not the Minister in charge of the bill; the Deputy Prime Minister is\u2014just said that the sector is happy with this temporary delay, and the temporary delay is for four years. So if a temporary delay is for four years, why is it that we are rushing yet another piece of legislation through, cutting back the time that the public have to submit, and, instead of having a six-month process, we\u2019ve got 3\u00BD? Oh, there\u2019s a simple thing; it\u2019s called an election in the middle, and they\u2019re panicking that they won\u2019t get the legislation through in time for the deadline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWell, how long has the Minister known that this extension was going to be done? An extension of four years is definitely not temporary. So I think the Minister needs to get her time line sorted out because, yet again, we\u2019re in this House debating a shortened report back of a Minister that is so arrogant she doesn\u2019t give the public the chance they are due to submit on legislation. Honestly, I\u2019ve done this speech more times than not with Minister Sepuloni when she\u2019s introducing a piece of legislation that she doesn\u2019t think the public should have the fair length of time to debate. I think that\u2019s disgraceful. I think it\u2019s absolutely disgraceful. So is it a temporary delay and is temporary four years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347f319efbce424392554df6d8db0fee\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: New democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c669a021d5f0476fad8e2b65c994bbc3\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s kind of interesting. And it was interesting because at the start of this term in Parliament, I really thought with the first time ever that there was a majority party in Government, they would be careful\u2014they would be careful and care for the public\u2019s involvement in our democratic processes. But, no. Riding roughshod yet again over the consultation process, over the process of legislation that I used to be proud of, but, under these guys, I am definitely not, because, yet again, Carmel Sepuloni, who is now also the Deputy Prime Minister, is jamming a piece of legislation through with a shortened report back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAnd why is that? Well, the Minister said it needs to be done by 20-something of February, because the date at the moment expires in March 2024 and they want to extend it to March 2028. So yet another good example of non-delivery. But if the legislation needs to be passed by February, why didn\u2019t they start this process earlier? Because they would have known. Why did they not start it earlier? Or, also, why don\u2019t they just allow the consultation process and the public submission to occur at the normal time frame, which would mean, yes, there\u2019s an election in the middle, but Parliaments, when they\u2019ve changed Government or not, have managed to deal with deadlines in a mature way without taking the time off the public? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut I think it\u2019s pretty clear this is a Minister for Social Development and Employment that actually doesn\u2019t care about the public; doesn\u2019t care about those that work with social workers. Why is it that yet again we\u2019re here in a shortened report back because, oh, the Government just didn\u2019t get themselves organised\u2014the Minister\u2019s disorganised and doesn\u2019t care about the public having their say? What is it? A temporary delay; temporary delay of four years. But yet who is it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222eaf1948cf341d4855adfb1391a0606\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A personal, nasty speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccda8ccc0df34fe8995e155f2180576f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that gets the time shaved off? It\u2019s the public. No, it\u2019s not a nasty speech. A nasty thing to do is the Deputy Prime Minister removing the opportunity of the public of New Zealand to have their say on legislation. It wouldn\u2019t have taken much\u2014wouldn\u2019t have taken much\u2014to allow four months, five months, six months. No, that\u2019s a normal process. But, no; instead we take shortcuts. The Labour Government wants to take shortcuts, take the time off the New Zealand public, ram a piece of legislation through\u2014don\u2019t allow the full accountability or scrutiny, yet again. Yes, it\u2019s boring. It\u2019s boring to do this, but it is totally and absolutely irresponsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI call on the Government to actually show some respect for the New Zealand public, to organise themselves. Do things when you\u2019re meant to, deliver for once, and don\u2019t ride roughshod over the New Zealand public by shortcutting your process at their cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022554242ac830b4f9896d0157838ae3d5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022554242ac830b4f9896d0157838ae3d5b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u00225531481562b94d5a98c13d4fbb4335da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225531481562b94d5a98c13d4fbb4335da\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, I have to kind of follow on from that. Time and time again, we\u2019ve seen processes just being trodden over. Whether it\u2019s under urgency or it\u2019s shortened report-back times, it\u2019s not allowing the public time to have their say. And, in this bill in particular, it\u2019s not allowing the social sector to come along and have their say. This could affect them quite severely, and this is a really important decision we have to make. They work in such an important sector and deserve to have their voices heard. And I\u2019m actually very, very frustrated that we\u2019ve got all these bills being shortened\u2014the time frame that we actually get to listen to the people. Isn\u2019t that our job? Our job is to represent the people. Our job is to represent those that we might be affecting by changing laws. And so how are we supposed to understand what those effects are going to be, if we don\u2019t listen to the sectors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220946a7bd5bbc435488798743b897222d\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You just said you\u2019re well connected to the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea23e222e0748a8a1f1d28dc721d3be\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I would like to listen to what the sectors have to say, and I would like to give them enough time within that shortened time frame to be able to have their say. We have all these convoluted processes that keep getting trodden over, and Labour doesn\u2019t seem to want to represent the people that they say\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c3432172664190bd2218feff1bc640\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That\u2019s enough back and forward across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8bf48cb11dd45b88e5bf62258a9ac67\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We need to be able to follow proper process so that we can make good law, so we don\u2019t end up back here amending the law again and kicking the can down the road again. The social work sector deserves better, social workers deserve better, and New Zealanders deserve better. So we need to stop doing this, and we need to stop changing the processes, and follow proper process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb967c6d3b6e40f3941dfabb2909e907\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 24 August 2023 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286fec4e460064d9eb69958f16fa0c92e\u0022\u003EWorker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022303a226a28f1495eb9544807d55ab823\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00229f7cc09bbf8d447abdd2bee1cd0fd6ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f7cc09bbf8d447abdd2bee1cd0fd6ed\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Associate Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff205529e684f0aa68ecd69e41e4bd3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f520a255c6c46c6aff594f0a3b37442\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EProtecting our migrant workers from exploitation is a priority for our Government. The contribution of migrant workers to the New Zealand economy must be valued and, equally, their vulnerabilities must be addressed. The Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill strengthens our immigration and employment system by introducing a fit for purpose offence and penalty regime to protect migrant workers in New Zealand. As immigration continues to ramp up and we have more migrant workers on the ground helping our economy across different sectors, it is important that we put in place the right measures to protect them from exploitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ELast term, this Government announced a coordinated end-to-end package of legislative policy and operational changes to reduce migrant exploitation in New Zealand. We\u2019ve already made great progress, with initiatives like new reporting tools, the migrant exploitation protection visa, and an education and information pilot being rolled out so far. This bill builds on this work to further protect migrant workers from exploitative employers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Education and Workforce Committee finished its consideration of the bill and reported back to the House on 20 March. The committee voted by a majority for the bill to be passed, and it recommended minor changes that have been incorporated to improve the clarity of drafting. They do not substantially change the bill. I thank the Education and Workforce Committee for their work and robust select committee process while considering this bill. I would also like to thank the individuals and organisations who made submissions on the bill for their time, their expertise, and their engagement. Of the 44 written submissions, 35 supported the bill either as it was reported to the Education and Workforce Committee or in principle. Community Law\u2019s submission to the select committee noted the importance of our suite of initiatives, including this bill, to prevent, expose, and investigate exploitation. They regularly see clients who don\u2019t even get their minimum employment entitlements or who have their immigration status used against them. I was heartened to see the need for further work in this area be acknowledged so broadly across the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThere are three key parts to this bill that I want to touch on. Firstly, we need to stop exploitation from occurring at any level. That\u2019s especially important in stopping the most serious examples of exploitation we\u2019ve seen in this country. This bill creates a penalty regime that will allow immigration officers to address low-level, non-compliant employer behaviour that is linked to migrant exploitation. Currently, immigration officers do not have any mechanisms outside of criminal prosecution to address low-level, non-compliant employer behaviour. Criminal prosecution is a time-consuming, expensive, and inefficient response for such low-level offences. Introducing infringement offences will ensure that even lower-level offending, like refusing to provide employment documentation, can be dealt with before it becomes more serious. Immigration New Zealand has estimated that it would issue between 500 and 1,000 infringement notices to non-compliant employers per year under this new infringement regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESecondly, we need to ensure that our immigration officers have the tools to verify that employers are complying with their obligations. This is about levelling the playing field so that employers who are trying hard to meet their commitments to migrant workers don\u2019t get undercut or disadvantaged. Once the bill commences, designated and authorised immigration officers will be able to request employment documents from employers about migrant workers whose visas they have supported. Only employers who have supported a visa application can be required to supply documents, and the documentation can only be about those who have been supported on that visa, not other employees that an employer may have. The documents that can be requested are clearly stated in the provision\u2014specifically, documents that an employer is already legally required to hold or can otherwise be expected to hold. It only applies to pre-existing documents and cannot be used to obtain a new statement or compel an employer to answer questions. These records would allow immigration officers to assess, for example, whether a migrant worker is being paid the salary stated in the employer-supported visa application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to be very clear: the document production power does not provide a power of entry or a power of search; the robust legislative and operational safeguards are there to prevent this information from being used to target overstayers or other vulnerable migrants. Although immigration officers may exercise the power without reasonable belief of non-compliance, this is justified given that it\u2019s a relatively un-intrusive power intended to enable just the auditing of employer compliance. This is a narrow scope with very carefully designed limitations. Immigration officers must also be designated and authorised to use the power and be issued a warrant of designation by the chief executive of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE). In their New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vet of the bill, the Ministry of Justice concluded that the document production power was justified and did not contravene the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe document production power is an important tool for protecting migrant workers because it means that there can be proactive checks to verify that employers are complying with their legal obligations. It supports the overall objective of the bill to deter employers from exploiting migrant workers. We know that migrant worker exploitation is under-reported; we must be proactive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThirdly, we need to hold exploitative employers to account. The bill will allow MBIE to publish certain information about employers who have committed immigration offences. Currently, employers who breach their obligations under the Employment Relations Act are published on a stand-down list. This bill will allow immigration offending to also be made public and ensure that the names of employers who breached their obligations under the Immigration Act are made available. The stand-down list is a crucial tool to allow both prospective and current migrant workers to know if an employer is compliant with New Zealand\u2019s employment law. This bill will require employers to respond to requests for information from the labour inspectorate or immigration officers within 10 working days. Currently, there are no specified time frames. We need this to create that level playing field. Immigration officers will, however, have discretion not to impose a fee where there are genuine reasons for delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill will also amend the Companies Act to allow the courts to disqualify people who are convicted of migrant exploitation, or of people trafficking, from managing or directing a company. This change will prevent people who have used company structures to exploit others from doing so again in the future. It is only appropriate that we don\u2019t allow people who commit these offences to continue managing companies and employing potentially vulnerable people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENo one stand-alone action will address migrant worker exploitation entirely. But with a suite of measures, including education and awareness raising, the provision of reporting tools for migrant workers, and these new powers and offences, we can prevent exploitation from occurring. We can protect those migrant workers who are subjected to exploitation by providing the tools enabling them to leave the exploitative situation, and we can take enforcement action to deal with employers who continue to choose not to comply with their legal obligations. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221ba22fefce864475ac3a227a2c682e95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ba22fefce864475ac3a227a2c682e95\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022879781419d924ab9bac7f3d3446d7fe2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022879781419d924ab9bac7f3d3446d7fe2\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, I\u2019m not sure that the Associate Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety will be surprised in hearing tonight that the National Party will not be supporting this bill. The bill doesn\u2019t solve the problem that the Minister believes it\u2019s going to solve, and it goes after the wrong people. It was interesting to hear her speech tonight about the coordinated, end-to-end programme, the suite of things that this Government are putting together to try to end migrant exploitation, but the real, difficult, hard, gnarly end of migrant exploitation has not even been touched by this Government. This bill is one of those things that sounds good and it sounds nice and the Minister made all the right noises, but, actually, the real big gnarly things that are actually causing migrant exploitation are not being gone after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI can tell you that the single biggest thing around migrant exploitation that this Government should be doing is going after wage recycling, because, actually, by forcing up the rate that migrants need to be paid to the median wage, which is now $29.66 an hour, all she\u2019s done, all this Government have done, is mean that migrants are now paying more in terms of wage recycling for the jobs that they were always paying for, and they\u2019re doing this by paying back their employer overseas, in bitcoin or in overseas bank accounts that are difficult to trace. This bill doesn\u2019t go anywhere near addressing that real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does, and I warned them about this in my very first speech, is it goes after super, super low-level minor infringements that actually are good employers who are trying to do the right thing who might get caught out, because, actually, when you\u2019ve got a really tight labour market and a massive labour force shortage, when companies are trying to do the right thing, but are just trying to jimmy things around to make ends meet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b840eb6379c74c089eb1e049ec3d5fea\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: Jimmy things around?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225253ac30ff7a4f24ba7674a3bc34fdc4\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so Angela Roberts doesn\u2019t like the words \u201Cjimmy things around\u201D. Let me give her an example of an aged-care facility who\u2014we all know that they\u2019re short of aged-care workers and nurses\u2014find that their nurse coming in is going to be late or that they can\u2019t bring in their next nurse because they\u2019re so short, so they ask their migrant nurse or their migrant healthcare worker to work an extra hour. Guess what? Ping, because that\u2019s against the conditions of their visa, which would be pinged under this bill. So in a really tight labour market when people are just trying to make ends meet and actually make sure that they are caring for people, in the case of an aged-care association, they would be pinged under this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI made the point in my first reading speech that we need to be more flexible in these times rather than going after these people who are just trying to do the right thing. I was in a meeting in W\u0101naka just yesterday talking to the hospitality sector, who said to me, \u201CWe are so short-staffed here that we can\u2019t open up our hotel for 100 percent capacity; it\u2019s got to be 65 percent. We\u2019ve got migrant workers working here that could be doing other jobs every now and then to try and make things work, but we can\u2019t do it.\u201D Guess what? Under this bill, they would be pinged for just trying to do the right thing in a tight labour market, which these guys created because they couldn\u2019t get the borders open early enough. They\u2019re going after the very people who are just trying to do the right thing, who have been pinged by this Government because they couldn\u2019t get their act together last year. That is not a good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhere they should have been going, as I have mentioned already, is after the wage recycling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a43f5afb864823ad08efa43d443afc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the member of Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/5: in a second reading of a bill, the comments or the debate is to be confined to matters contained within the bill and not at length matters which are not provided for in the bill. So, a comment, yes, but half a speech, not so much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c129d52d43e7472caffac4c71078fac0\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, let\u2019s move on then to some of the comments by the submitters in this bill, who were making the very points that I have been making, firstly around flexibility. Business New Zealand have basically said in their submission to us that the broad definition of an offence is just unworkable and stomps over the nature of the employment agreement and mutual agreement between the employee and the employer. An employer commits an offence now by allowing an employee to work in a way not entitled to under the Act\u2014in practice, for example, where the aged-care nurse may be required to cover that extra shift or that extra hour because a colleague is running late. This constitutes now a legal infringement, reducing the flexibility of the workforce in an environment of extreme skill shortages. Removing the ability of workers and employers to meet mutual agreement to ensure critical services and firms can operate will create backlogs and fewer services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EA second thing that was brought up in the select committee process was around the fact that many times migrant workers want to do more than their job that they\u2019re doing. And an example that I can give you, which wasn\u2019t mentioned in select committee but perfectly explains this point, was the cherry orchardist that I spoke to yesterday, who said they\u2019ve employed migrant workers to string out nets. Those migrant workers said, \u201CHey, we\u2019d really like to do more and learn more about horticulture and work in different parts of the business, and learn more and improve our skills.\u201D And that, again, under this bill, as said by Business New Zealand, will be penalised. So in an environment where we\u2019ve got workers who are here, who are wanting to do more, who are wanting to learn more, this bill penalises them. That was warned about at select committee by Business New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAgain, the real issue that was complained about in select committee was around the fact that migrant exploitation is rife and is not being investigated. This bill, as I mentioned, goes after people who are just trying to do the right thing. But, in fact, 10 percent of complaints about migrant exploitation at the serious end are actually never looked into. There was a report last year that said there are over a thousand reports about serious migrant exploitation\u2014serious migrant exploitation. Only 10 percent of those were looked into. I want to read this House a text message that I got yesterday from an immigration agent: \u201CDo you remember those exploited workers I told you about? Things with INZ are going super slow and the owner of the business is about to leave New Zealand.\u201D This is just another example of the serious nature we have in this country of serious migrant exploitation that is not investigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe worry that was brought up at select committee around this bill was that the focus of the Government is on the wrong people. It\u2019s on low-level people who are just trying to be flexible in their businesses, who actually have said in many surveys that they want to do the right thing, but they just need more education because quite often the number of rules that Immigration New Zealand keep changing is overwhelming. They want to do the right thing, yet the serious end of town are not being investigated, and the worry always was\u2014and it was at select committee, with the submitters\u2014that the focus will now be on the compliance officers, who are desk-based, making phone calls and asking for records when, actually, the serious end of town is not being investigated. There are not boots on the ground. There\u2019s no investigation going into the serious breaches, and we can see that by all of the reports, so that the comments at select committee were very much around: we are going after the wrong people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThese are people who are just trying to be flexible, who are trying to do the right thing, who are sometimes confused by the rules, who just need education. Whereas the people at the serious end, despite what the Minister came out today and said\u2014that there is a suite of policies\u2014there has been nothing. There has been nothing that this Government has put out that shows that they\u2019re going to go after wage recycling\u2014not a single piece of legislation around that, nothing at all. There\u2019s nothing in this bill around wage recycling. And there\u2019s certainly nothing in terms of more boots on the ground and more emphasis on those people who are at the serious end of town.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I mentioned in our first reading speech was that we would not support this bill if it didn\u2019t make some changes around the reasonable grounds. There was nothing done at select committee to change that. There is no requirement for a desk-based officer, when they\u2019re requiring documents from an employer, to have any reasonable grounds to ask for those documents. So as we mentioned in our first reading speeches\u2014that the officers will very likely go on fishing expeditions, when many of these companies who\u2019ve had to be accredited have already given all of this information and will have to give it again when they become re-accredited; are now going to be asked for it again, placing massive burdens on them when there are no reasonable grounds for those officers to require those documents\u2014I said that our support would hinge on that. It didn\u2019t change. And we will not be, therefore, voting for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022197f224cc44240f3b63cd1ab1cb3fd34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022197f224cc44240f3b63cd1ab1cb3fd34\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take this short call on the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill. The member who just took her seat, Erica Stanford, listed a few reasons why the National Party is not going to support this bill, which is disappointing, because it\u2019s at moments like this that this House needs to come together and address this serious issue. But then, migrant exploitation happened throughout nine years of the National Government. It was happening under their eyes; they haven\u2019t done anything about it, so we are not surprised. However, she tried to underplay these serious offences as low-level offences. Underpaying people is not a minor offence; it\u2019s a serious offence. It\u2019s a crime. Denying people their basic rights such as smoko and lunch breaks is not low level; it\u2019s actually a serious offence and a crime, and these are some of the things that this bill is trying to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI could go on and on and on, but it\u2019s quite clear, and I\u2019m sure that some of my friends who will be speaking after me will address some of these points as well. This bill implements legislative changes to help address temporary migrant worker exploitation that were announced in July 2020. The bill proposes to amend the Immigration Act 2009, the Employment Relations Act 2000, and the Companies Act 1993.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EIn 2018, Cabinet agreed to progress an action item to take serious action on migrant exploitation. This culminated in the temporary migrant worker exploitation review. The exploitation exists on a spectrum. It takes many forms. It\u2019s rampant in our country. It\u2019s happening. It\u2019s ugly, and needs to stop. I believe that this bill is going to play a significant role in doing just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI\u2019d actually like to thank the Minister for her hard work in bringing this bill in the House, because this was much-needed legislation. Every day, we see stories in the media where people are severely exploited to the point of people attempting to take their own lives because they don\u2019t see any way out of the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the members of the Education and Workforce Committee. Regardless of the member disagreeing or not supporting the bill tonight, as a committee we came together and did good work in scrutinising the bill. The officials, obviously, worked hard to report the bill back to this House. This is a serious issue. This is a very important issue to not only the migrant community but actually to us as a country. It\u2019s a bad image for our country and gives us a bad reputation. It\u2019s important for our businesses as well. So it\u2019s timely legislation. It\u2019s very important, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00227115610c702e4ebc9c5f6e76ef0637a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227115610c702e4ebc9c5f6e76ef0637a5\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to contribute in the debate on this bill, but as my colleague Erica Stanford has actually signalled, the National Party will not be supporting this bill. And I have to say, I\u2019m disappointed that we had to get to that position, because there are aspects of the bill that we do actually agree with in the sense that nobody\u2014I don\u2019t think anyone in this House\u2014wants to see migrant workers being exploited. And it is something that we need to do something about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs Erica Stanford has actually mentioned, it is really disheartening to find out that out of more than a thousand reports relating to allegations of migrant exploitation, only about 108 were investigated by Immigration New Zealand and the inspectorate. And that\u2019s sort of, I guess\u2014who\u2019s good at maths?\u2014less than 10 percent. But instead of actually investigating these complaints where migrant workers have actually laid those complaints to the authorities, we now get to a point where the Government is actually legislating for a law which basically wants Immigration New Zealand to\u2014without necessarily any cause\u2014dig into the financials of a company to find out if there is actually abuse in the system; whether there is in fact exploitation of migrant workers. As I said to start, I don\u2019t think anyone in this Chamber agrees to actually have migrant workers or any workers being exploited, because I find it really abhorrent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe do also have a process where we have minimum wage settings, we also have when people are applying for visas they have to meet a certain wage criterion for them to be granted visas. But one of the problems that a lot of migrants have\u2014migrant workers actually have\u2014is that when they\u2019re tied to a particular workplace, they can\u2019t often alter or change jobs easily. I mean, that is an aspect of the immigration rules that the Government should perhaps make more flexible so that migrant workers could easily move from, let\u2019s say, an abusive or an exploitative employer to another job that may not be exploiting them or is actually treating them better or paying them better rates, but instead they are tied to an employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe bill, basically, removes the requirement of the desk-based officer to have reasonable grounds for suspecting there is a compliance issue, essentially meaning that they can go on a fishing expedition. There are three infringement offences that workplaces can be charged with: if an employer employs a migrant they are not authorised to employ, or if the migrant the employer\u2019s authorised to employ isn\u2019t working in a way in which their visa states they must. And some of the examples that Erica Stanford actually talked about, I have come face to face with some of these issues, with constituents, migrant workers who have actually complained that they would like to increase the hours of work because they wanted to sort of do more study and actually learn about the industry that they\u2019re in and learn the New Zealand way of practices, and they are not entitled to even change the dates that they have because they were given a particular visa for certain days that they actually worked and they couldn\u2019t even change that. And if the employer doesn\u2019t supply requested documents within 10 days. So those are three factors that will actually get the employer pinged and potentially fined up to $100,000, or even jail time for serious offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe thing that really sort of bothers me is that\u2014I wasn\u2019t actually part of the select committee, but to read that Zespri New Zealand kiwifruit growers also actually had serious concern about the bill. The line I\u2019m particularly concerned about in their submission was that \u201CThis [bill] is contrary to the principles of natural justice and will permit enforcement bodies to make arbitrary requests.\u201D I think that should be something we should be concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe other one is Business New Zealand, who actually said that \u201CDuplicating the functional roles of the Labour Inspectorate and Immigration NZ without sufficient assurance of resourcing and consistent service delivery from both Departments\u201D is actually worrying. When recently I had a constituent who rang my office to assist them because their temporary work visa was expiring, they had had a job offer for a full-time job in a highly paying managerial position, and they had, in fact, gone through an immigration agent. The company needed to become an accredited employer, which took some time, and they had to do job check. It\u2019s been months. It\u2019s been months, and they still haven\u2019t got their work visa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe issue is that Immigration New Zealand does not actually have the capacity to even process visas where current workers who are already here working cannot get a work visa to continue working, and here they are on a fishing expedition to ping employers who are having difficulty finding workers. This is a bill that could have actually worked in terms of\u2014you know, in select committee there are things that different parties would actually agree to if they had perhaps worked together better. Perhaps it\u2019s a bill that maybe we could\u2019ve supported, but it did not quite fit that threshold where we can actually support it. I oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7b7c91804a146aaaba6888e10c65cfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7b7c91804a146aaaba6888e10c65cfe\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill. It has been a privilege to be on the select committee that has been shepherding this bill through its processes, the Education and Workforce Committee. I want to thank and acknowledge everyone who did submit on this bill, and those in this select committee from across the parties who did engage in good faith, even though in the end we couldn\u2019t agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI think that it\u2019s really clearly a demonstration of where our focus is and where our priorities are. This bill is about the exploitation of workers, so we\u2019re probably starting in a different place from some of the other members in the House. So we\u2019re really proud to be bringing this. This is about looking after our temporary migrant workers who are vulnerable. We need to look after them. We don\u2019t just have a moral imperative, but an economic one. We know how important these workers are to our economy and we need to make sure that we look after them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6de3bfc669421ba90960f461cf2549\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Get Immigration New Zealand doing their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e572fe8911de40d6b9b2b7eb2dde1a40\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS\u003C/span\u003E: We know that this bill sits within the wider work to combat migrant exploitation, which started with the temporary migrant worker exploitation review. It\u2019s really pleasing to be able to remind the other side of the House, who seem desperately concerned about the capacity for Immigration New Zealand and Employment New Zealand, and remind them that we have increased resources to meet those exact issues that have been raised: $50 million is not exactly nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce0b6a39083449c935740d96111203b\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Spending more, but it\u2019s doing worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022754be3c41e1c4ef18d49e90f338633b1\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS\u003C/span\u003E: So what we\u2019ve done is that we\u2019ve increased those resources, we have new reporting tools, and we also\u2014obviously somebody hasn\u2019t quite kept up with what\u2019s going on. We do actually have a Migrant Exploitation Protection Work Visa, and so it would be helpful if we were debating a bill in the House that everybody had their facts straight on and kept up with the significant progress we have made in this Government to support our migrant workers in a wide range of ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis bill means that we have a more proportionate and efficient enforcement kit for our immigration officers and labour inspectors to deal with low-level offending. This is actually about making sure we can support employers to get it right before things get really out of hand. The penalties and the exploitation are significant. And because of that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa64adea84464554b044aaf9ebb53aa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa64adea84464554b044aaf9ebb53aa6\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. At the first reading, ACT supported the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill to select committee to see whether our concerns would be sufficiently addressed and the bill\u2019s unintended or otherwise kind of obvious consequences fixed, and to hear from a wide range of stakeholders\u2014although the total submission list wasn\u2019t particularly sizable in this case. We specifically said migrants deserve a voice and an opportunity to help craft a law that directly affects them, and the select committee is an opportunity for this to take place. Now that this bill has been through the select committee process, ACT is not satisfied that meaningful improvements have been made, and the risks that we identified in the first reading have not been substantially addressed, and we will, therefore, no longer be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESince the first reading of this bill, there has been a good number of changes to the Government\u2019s immigration policy and instructions, with new pathways opening up and a seeming abandonment of the great reset, which is well overdue. There have also been more cases in the media spotlight recently\u2014or should I say a flashlight at five o\u2019clock in the morning?\u2014and more reports of nefarious, unlicensed immigration advisers charging extortionate amounts of money for things like recovery visas and Accredited Employer Work Visas, which is a perfectly foreseeable consequence of migrants having to get a job offer and their visa tied to their employer, among other factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EIf the accreditation system worked as intended, then a bill of this nature would not be required. It would be unnecessary. And while it is true that some people will always try to break immigration rules, that is a minority, and this legislation is akin to breaking a walnut with a sledgehammer, given the powers it grants immigration officers. Employers go through an accreditation process, which has been well canvassed here this evening, and again when they reapply, though I note the Government has, of course, extended the accreditation period for businesses, which is a good thing, but if that causes a problem and opens up the potential for exploitation, then that\u2019s a policy design issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESome of our earlier concerns that I raised in the first reading: granting immigration officials and labour inspectors the power to request documentation from businesses on pretty marginal grounds without reasonable cause is very problematic; further, the 10-day requirement for producing that documentation is unreasonable in the context of natural justice. These broad powers could result in officials overly targeting actually compliant businesses rather than focusing on the problematic ones. This bill unduly extends the power of the State in interfering with businesses\u2014employers\u2014and it almost assumes that businesses are all guilty. And that is a highly disruptive place to start from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAdditionally, I have a concern with the lack of focus and clarity in this bill. As it stands, it could unfairly impact migrant workers themselves. I raised concerns about the consequences for migrants if they report their employers, in the first reading. They could find themselves in a world of trouble. They could wind up being served a DLN, a deportation liability notice. If the goal of this bill is to hold unscrupulous employers accountable by imposing these fines for every unlawfully hired employee breaching rules, that could be a positive outcome. However, the potential repercussions for affected workers must also be considered. How will this infringement regime, which targets the lower end of migrant exploitation, protect migrant workers and encourage whistleblowing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll also emphasise the question I made in the first reading, because I think it\u2019s still very relevant, which is whether migrants can trust the decision-making ability of Immigration New Zealand (INZ), given that nearly half of the appeals to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal are successful, indicating INZ often makes mistakes\u2014and they\u2019ll admit that themselves\u2014in examining cases. This raises concerns about the reliability and accuracy of their decisions and is certainly not a positive reflection on INZ. Can an agency with such a track record be trusted to use the powers in this bill fairly, or will it become an enormous fishing expedition that makes life hell for business owners? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ETo address exploitation, ACT has long held the view that the Government should allow migrants the freedom to change jobs easily\u2014if their employment situation becomes untenable\u2014by way of removing the tying of visas to a single employer and job type. We would have also liked to have seen more specific protections for migrants to make it clear that this is not about punishing them. It is important to offer a bridge to a safety net that encourages whistleblowing and supports migrant workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESo, fundamentally, Government policy itself makes exploitation worse, and we would have liked to have supported this bill or efforts to improve or decrease migrant exploitation. But, ultimately, this bill needs a balance, but all we have, frankly, is Government hypocrisy at its finest. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221c43802166974ea3abceb4cded4575b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c43802166974ea3abceb4cded4575b0\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party to speak to the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill second reading. I sat through most of the submissions at the Education and Workforce Committee, and I acknowledge the work of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe bill, in and of itself, creates a kit of infringements that the Government hopes will do some work to stamp out exploitation, and we made it clear in the first reading that out of the kits, the Government or policy interventions the Government could use, we think\u2014and this is one of the areas, actually, I find myself agreeing with the ACT Party\u2014one of the most effective interventions is to decouple work visas from single employers. But, at the same time, we do acknowledge that there are unscrupulous employers who are getting away with exploiting migrants with little consequences, and so we do think there is worth in exploring a set of infringements to enable employers being held to account, and to discourage this type of behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOne of the key points that we raised during the first reading, which was then echoed by the New Zealand Law Society, as well as the Human Trafficking Research Coalition, was regarding the use of the information collected as part of this kit for the purposes of future visa applications. During the select committee, we were reassured that it could be, in theory, operationalised to prevent this from happening, but we do not think that goes far enough. We do actually think that, ideally, there should be protections in law that guarantees to migrants that whatever information Immigration New Zealand collates won\u2019t be used for the purposes of determining future visa applications. The reason for that is that often exploited migrants are finding themselves breaching their visa conditions as part of the exploitative conditions that they find themselves in and so, by not having those protections, what we are creating is a situation where migrants may not feel confident being part of that whistleblowing process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe do not think that making changes to the bill that would have enabled and entrenched those protections would have jeopardised the holding of these employers to account, and this is why we do look forward to the committee of the whole House process to explore the Supplementary Order Paper that we\u2019re going to be tabling on that. So our support will continue to be based on the possibility of making these changes and we look forward to future debates to unpack those. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022323c3f71c48c418eb2fe7d096be22e15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022323c3f71c48c418eb2fe7d096be22e15\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I must admit that I\u2019m a little bit perplexed by the contributions from National Party colleagues this evening. If the law is breached, yes, there is an obligation to ensure that there are tools and architecture to make sure that the law is complied with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI was then also confused by my colleague Melissa Lee\u2019s contributions where she lamented the non-investigation of certain breaches. However, that\u2019s exactly what this bill is there to address in terms of the production of documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI think it is really worrying when there is a dismissive approach to the experience of exploited migrants. It is not simply an academic spectrum; it\u2019s an experience of marginalisation, and if you\u2019ve spoken to migrants who are experiencing cumulative what the Opposition might call lower-end breaches, it is an experience of marginalisation, and we absolutely must do something to address that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a saying that goes \u201CDon\u2019t confuse justice with the law\u201D. Justice is about fairness; it\u2019s about just outcomes. The law is about the tools that we need to get to those just outcomes, and I think sometimes people believe that if we simply make something illegal, like paying someone less than the minimum wage, then compliance just follows. In truth, there are areas of society by which either their lack of transparency or their architecture leads them away from justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I would like to commend the Minister for introducing this piece of legislation to the law, and it\u2019s a piece of law that recognises part of what I would call the existence of keyhole employers. What I mean by that is that in certain industries where there are cumulative breaches, employers have so much control over a workplace that they can, essentially, close the door and only let you see what they want you to see through that door. The production of documents is really significant here as it does allow the opening of the doors. It is a tool that ensures that we\u2019re working towards fairness, as opposed to just setting up laws that aren\u2019t complied with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThere are other aspects of this bill which also will make it more fair in terms of workers who are facing these abuses that other members have spoken to, so I will not speak to those. I only say that I commend the Minister and the committee again for their work on this bill, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022accc09b95dc4462db803138d4ccac9dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022accc09b95dc4462db803138d4ccac9dc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230509ed0833c6c6eb42d1825c9987ffaa5ea9000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"