"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b73eba81749400f85e6c744b4f2277f\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 17 MAY 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022170fbdab31734a0ba4062519de4e96ce\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 17 MAY 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ef1a6dda51449afa90d7fe3a50a6357\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293344ba14df743d0a0214690457fba63\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00222816122b898341f49a53d7911076db0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222816122b898341f49a53d7911076db0b\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb15d609a0074751bfb93c36abe019d3\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e55563441bb847d4bf363f9d8c6de2bc\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc2ba4fcff60432ab723af7b0c96c541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc2ba4fcff60432ab723af7b0c96c541\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe978d2f35004520b27e62f86c222bd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe978d2f35004520b27e62f86c222bd9\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Social Justice Aotearoa requesting that the House amend section 52 of the Corrections Act to require rehabilitation programmes for prison inmates be established within 12 months of imprisonment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Kate Stone requesting that the House pass a motion formally recognising the State of Palestine and urge the Government to formally recognise the State of Palestine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022badaf851a3d647c89ad9860d6a7603ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022badaf851a3d647c89ad9860d6a7603ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002209366365dcc0446a81962dff5aa3d7b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209366365dcc0446a81962dff5aa3d7b1\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMuseum of New Zealand, Te Papa Tongarewa, annual report 2021-22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMuseum of New Zealand, Te Papa Tongarewa, statement of performance expectations 2022-23.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b307dfa89b0a4756b674406db015283d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b307dfa89b0a4756b674406db015283d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00228d0cc6e101ec4f2e951f41a42004969c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d0cc6e101ec4f2e951f41a42004969c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Justice Committee on the petition of H\u0101pai te Hauora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Petitions Committee on the petition of Hayley Liu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f4f11b0e1f4a8db8adaeea03003273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f4f11b0e1f4a8db8adaeea03003273\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e670f1f71c9f4678b232924fcd934099\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f624bfccbf1846988b260157ae2319d0\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcd076abe8f14d2396c0e47be5f2e761\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00221d7a9c3f8285493eb566a140e756755f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d7a9c3f8285493eb566a140e756755f\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the priorities for Budget 2023? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229de5304577a7495892f44a9a8abd7ba7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229de5304577a7495892f44a9a8abd7ba7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2023 has been put together under another set of challenging circumstances, including cost of living pressures, extreme weather events, and a difficult global environment. The Government has four priorities in tomorrow\u2019s Budget as we navigate a pathway through this testing time. They are supporting New Zealanders with the cost of living, delivering the services New Zealanders rely on, recovery and resilience, and fiscal sustainability. Budgets are always a balancing act. Budget 2023 recognises that we need to look after people while at the same time moving back to a more sustainable fiscal position after the emergency spending required to get us through COVID. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c16c45f5f14d2bac6a834f8489cb4a\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government meeting its priorities in Budget 2023? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227409f9bc213848c981c0d5add9c078e1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Budget 2023 is striking a careful balance to support New Zealanders with the costs they are facing in the here and now while charting a course for a more productive and resilient economy. We are carefully considering our spending and have made trade-offs to keep our balanced approach. The ongoing costs of the recovery from weather events will be met within Budget allowances. This means we have put responding to the cyclone ahead of some other areas Ministers would have liked to focus on. Budget 2023 will continue to invest in essential public services and building a resilient infrastructure network while carefully managing our resources to ensure the long-term sustainability of our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f17e4bcd7248c791ad9e242d2816f8\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government announced to support the priorities in Budget 2023? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223564c70b0fb049b2a714b4e35a451f33\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has already announced a $1 billion flood and cyclone recovery package as part of Budget 2023. It covers issues such as rebuilding roads, rails, and schools, and also support for mental health, while preparing for future events with a big investment in flood protection measures. These investments will help ease the pressure on local communities already struggling with the cost of living from having to foot the full recovery build. We\u2019re partnering with local government to make sure cost isn\u2019t a barrier to getting recovery work done, and the package adds to the $800 million already provided in support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221500e47f0e64508bb02640be0133286\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements have been made to support the priorities in Budget 2023? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e3a0ea19244218b66fb7b443c74690\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: One announcement that has been made in advance of the Budget is that we will be continuing to invest in addressing climate change. Budget 2023 will support funding for emissions reductions with a $300 million boost to New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd (NZGIF) to develop low-carbon projects, drive down emissions, and create jobs. This takes the NZGIF\u2019s pool of capital to $700 million, making it one of the largest direct investors in New Zealand focused on climate change. Budget 2023 is a wellbeing Budget. It is about doing the right thing by New Zealanders facing cost of living pressures but also looking ahead to what we need to do to deliver higher-wage jobs with low emissions and economic security for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8a180da87ab4cc5a3b250d49705ae5f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa26c16dacad4a4f96152d7acda9658b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa26c16dacad4a4f96152d7acda9658b\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Is he satisfied with the outcomes taxpayers are getting from the increase in Government spending from $76 billion in 2017 to $129 billion in the current financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00221f48c57b4db2475aa5d5a5633a85d8ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f48c57b4db2475aa5d5a5633a85d8ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the following: 70,000 fewer children in poverty than when we took office; record levels of R \u0026amp; D expenditure incentivised by the R \u0026amp; D tax credit; an economy that\u2019s added 22,000 new jobs in the first three months of this year and average hourly wages rising by 7.6 percent; unemployment that\u2019s been below 4 percent for seven consecutive quarters\u2014a feat National didn\u2019t achieve in even one quarter\u2014a 61 percent increase in the number of apprentices in a 2\u00BD-year period; Pharmac providing 75 new medicines and widening the access to 137 different treatments; nearly 3,000 more teachers and an increase in the maximum base salary rate for secondary teachers of nearly 20 percent\u2014twice the increase that they got under the nine years of National\u2014reduced class sizes in years 4 to 8; 10,000 more children receiving specialist learning support than when we took office; 1,300 more classrooms; 63 million free, healthy school lunches that have been served to our children; reversing National\u2019s cuts to the childcare assistance; 2.8 million New Zealanders now having access to primary mental health care; the reduced cost of seeing a doctor through the extension of low-cost doctors visits to children under the age of 14; more than 4,000 more nurses; 20 percent more doctors; graduate nurse salaries increasing 35 percent since 2017; a 50 percent increase in road maintenance funding, repairing more than 54,000 potholes. The list could go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230adb4c6ffac4e3f88502035825e20ce\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: So why, despite spending $5 billion on education, are only half of our children going to school regularly, and why has academic achievement gone backwards? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022825982f60d6a42019d66ec8b45af24e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I think the member needs to be careful when he talks about regular attendance measures, given that the regular attendance measures last year were severely impacted by the number of children at home because they had to be because they were isolating with COVID-19. In terms of the most recent performance measures in terms of student achievement, he could refer to the Programme for International Student Assessment study, for example, that refers to 15-year-olds who did their formative years of schooling when they got their foundation literacy and numeracy skills during the reign of national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b1e7f0642d4a68b912b9dc18ffd9ec\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why, despite spending $12.6 billion more on health, has every single health measure of performance, including emergency department wait times, specialist wait times, and immunisations, got worse? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9a0c923912484b9f69f952d19e3553\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member might like to forget the fact that we\u2019ve had a global pandemic that has put our health system under significant pressure, but, actually, it does reflect the rundown state of the health system when we became the Government and the work that we have had to do to fix that. For example, we have had a shortage of doctors\u2014we have had shortages in the health workforce that we have been focused on turning around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238bda5a664384e2ab1f2edf39f7121c9\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why, despite spending $2.3 billion more on law and order, is violent crime up 33 percent, retail crime up 103 percent, and it\u2019s quite OK to have a ram raid every 15 hours in this country now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4cf01b09154d65bacdb7fd5d49b381\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Ram raids are a disgrace and they are absolutely not acceptable. That\u2019s why we\u2019re backing the police to tackle that, it\u2019s why we\u2019re putting 1,800 extra police on the beat, and if the ratio of police to population hadn\u2019t declined as it did under National, perhaps we wouldn\u2019t have inherited such a bad situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cca00c30826a4265b549c378d9b42c32\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How is it possible that despite widespread worker shortages, there are almost 50,000 more people on jobseeker unemployment benefit and there are 36,000 more kids growing up in benefit-dependent homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229976139dd834b4fa85f4c1fc382e289\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member chooses to ignore the fact that we\u2019ve got record numbers of people in employment when he\u2019s talking about unemployment numbers. We have record numbers of people in employment. It\u2019s no wonder that Nicola Willis is doing so well in Auckland business circles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a56a69fb8cd454196d187b45e299b26\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s decision to spend $51 million on a cancelled bike bridge, over $70 million on light rail that will never be built, and tens of millions of dollars reducing speed limits to literally slow Kiwis down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022615ec977060141fca0ab94bf0639683f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I note that the member refers to all things where money has been spent in order to explain how he\u2019s going to pay for his future spending commitments. Is he going to go and ask for that money back again, because he still hasn\u2019t outlined how he is going to pay for any of the commitments that he has made, where the National Party seems to think you can both increase spending and decrease spending at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225230ea82773945c8bad8cb0b4193f349\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable that his Government is spending a billion dollars more each and every week, and yet delivering lower immunisation rates, longer health wait times, higher rents, more kids in benefit-dependent homes, and fewer kids going to school regularly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1e69676f05a4827b88e626bd3c388ab\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I note that one of the biggest drivers of increases in Government spending have been increased wages\u2014money that is being spent on people. And I want to know, from his public comments, why he does not regard teachers, nurses, police, and firefighters as everyday New Zealanders\u2014why does he not think that those people who go to work every day in the service of New Zealand are not everyday New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dde5872e46ee402ab468f598f7f0f6d0\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: When will he finally understand that just spending more money doesn\u2019t mean anything if outcomes keep going backwards and life keeps getting harder for Kiwis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64ae0eeb6484150920c208d11a2379a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member clearly didn\u2019t listen to the primary answer I gave to the question. He might not like to hear the evidence of the change that that spending is making to the lives of New Zealanders. The 70,000 fewer kids who are living in poverty under this Government don\u2019t think that that\u2019s a waste of money\u2014like he seems to think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dfb2868cb0d419a813a1dad4a3a8f4e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why can\u2019t the Prime Minister defend his Government\u2019s record on healthcare waiting lists, school attendance, or safety on the streets without mentioning the word \u201CCOVID\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcb4e4bd1da4b07992e6e4e66a66674\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pleased the member raised the issue of healthcare waiting lists, because, as a local member of Parliament, I recall the number of constituents who came into my office with a letter that said they had been referred by their GP to get a first specialist assessment, but because the waiting lists required that people who were put on the waiting list had to be seen within six months and the waiting list was full, they simply couldn\u2019t be put on the waiting list in the first place. Unlike the tactics employed by the previous Government that stopped people getting on to the waiting list in the first place, we are actually focused on making sure people get the healthcare that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e19e5157ac844a048552a81062e3ed43\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that the number of operations actually taking place across the healthcare system has plummeted in recent years, and does that mean this Government\u2019s real innovation is to start being honest that people aren\u2019t going to get an operation under them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6102e4370c84a1a9f57f6dfbf137445\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We have to acknowledge the fact that our healthcare workforce on the front lines were the people that experienced some of the worst effects of COVID-19. They were more exposed to COVID-19 last year when it arrived into the country, and probably a greater proportion of them ended up being at home. That did have a disruptive effect on the overall health system. I think we should be grateful to our health workforce for the fact that they were on the front lines of the COVID-19 response and we should acknowledge that, rather than trying to pretend, as the member does now, that the global pandemic never happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ac78d1c9d77454bbb97467229391c57\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00221409b3c086bc4b33aac65112d70728bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221409b3c086bc4b33aac65112d70728bc\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti: What recent announcement has the Government made regarding Matariki celebrations? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00221b2e689428944ff7a3ff7e451cd6a2a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b2e689428944ff7a3ff7e451cd6a2a9\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the Government launched the Matariki karakia booklet at the dark sky sanctuary in Takap\u014D/Lake Tekapo. The Matariki booklet contains karakia for each of the nine stars of Matariki, and will be distributed across the country to kura and communities as Aotearoa continues to embrace the occasion. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d0f29ff33e140ebbef5bb650afd0fdc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I\u2019m on my feet. Be quiet. Simeon Brown will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c874873fca84ecfa89a99d781c30e6c\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a27d67a4fbd4e1a85fa109ae8013c3a\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I start again? It contains karakia\u2014and maybe Simeon Brown needs a few karakia to help him out with his problems\u2014for each of the nine stars of Matariki, and will be distributed across the country to kura and communities as Aotearoa continues to embrace the occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6be3f2156948c3b971a1cb3b6173ae\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: So all the big issues are being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a9f223ec9ab4fd5868173442eb7bf75\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s great to see that the Leader of the Opposition embraces Matariki. The booklet presents the karakia in a way that is accessible for wh\u0101nau and communities wishing to conduct their own Matariki ceremonies this year\u201498 percent of New Zealanders have heard of Matariki, and 87 percent have an understanding of what Matariki is about. [Interruption] Obviously, there\u2019s the 13 percent that don\u2019t have an understanding of what Matariki is about. I think that\u2019s incredible, and this booklet will help cement the occasion and build on the success of last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7cd01c406c4a9bab4a4d5618e5dc86\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What is the significance of the booklet which was used in the proceedings of Parliament\u2019s M\u0101ori Affairs Committee today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c539156942a4adfa20373468eba46ea\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Last year, the inaugural Matariki public holiday was officially launched through a wh\u0101ngai i te hautapu ceremony at Te Papa Tongarewa\u2014[Gestures towards the National Opposition benches]\u2014or Te Papa to you guys. Te Arawhiti worked with the Chief Advisor M\u0101tauranga Matariki, Professor Rangi M\u0101t\u0101mua, around the gifting of the karakia that were recited during the ceremony at Te Papa. The karakia in the booklet were penned by Sir Pou Temara and Professor M\u0101t\u0101mua. This is an invaluable resource that they have gifted to Aotearoa New Zealand, and it helps to make some of the m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori underpinning Matariki accessible to us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdffddf2533f4cccbfb276da5564a079\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How will the booklet help New Zealanders celebrate Matariki? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224514176b7312411591886785b0044fcf\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I can see the enthusiasm from \u201CNegative National\u201D. The job now is to embed the day into our calendar while ensuring it remains grounded in m\u0101tauranga Maori and upholds the key principles and values associated with Matariki. Nearly half of New Zealanders have said they would like to do more to celebrate Matariki in 2023, and this booklet will help them to do just that. This booklet, along with a range of other resources, is free to access online, making Matariki an occasion truly everyone can commemorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242048491a35e4ebc8973085895bd8c7a\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What kind of engagement did New Zealanders have with Matariki last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022291a96f57ddf4cd585f3680b100ee424\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Last year, New Zealanders wholeheartedly\u2014wholeheartedly\u2014embraced Matariki. Let me share some insights with the House: just over half of the country did something to celebrate Matariki last year, with the most popular activity being viewing the Matariki cluster; 385,000 New Zealanders tuned into the live broadcast last year; Matariki content received 4.4 million views across social media platforms; and the potential economic benefits for the domestic tourism industry have been estimated at up to $160 million. Matariki is a time to commemorate a uniquely New Zealand public holiday. Together, we can all embed the occasion for years and generations to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228dcb825b25294af8a73ce479b7730227\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022dae29106b7a94a85aebf17e227f256f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dae29106b7a94a85aebf17e227f256f5\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with Labour MP Grant Robertson, who said in 2014, \u201CWe will ensure that all New Zealanders get a fair go by reforming monetary policy and by ensuring that everybody pays their fair share with a tax policy where higher-income earners actually pay their tax and actually pay their fair share\u201D; if so, is that what we can expect tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002200470a518c3049cf85d4f8e93c7c06d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200470a518c3049cf85d4f8e93c7c06d2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I do agree with the earlier quote from the then young, handsome Labour Party associate spokesperson for arts, culture, and heritage. I also agree with the spirited, youthful optimism with which that comment was made. However, I would note that my full quote includes reference to a capital gains tax, which was Labour Party policy at the time. That has already been ruled out for this Budget by both me and the Prime Minister. In terms of what we can expect tomorrow, we can expect that the sun will rise, that there will be a Budget, and that the National Party\u2019s response will be written by AI.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba795d2310548e692588f69d5412562\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile retaining a tax system that his own Government\u2019s research has proven privileges the wealthy few with the 2014 statement of Grant Robertson, Labour MP, that\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe will be a Government that puts people at the centre of the economy. Not speculators, not big interests, not the wealthy few\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be8340e753f4257b1fb7918be8a42c8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do believe that our Government has made significant progress, including through the tax system in increasing the top rate, but also making changes\u2014which I know are widely popular in the House\u2014around interest deductibility, for example, for speculators and investors. We have made good progress on making our system fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b24c55d8d8348b187265f93673497b3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that Governments make considered, deliberate choices on revenue and spending settings, and, if so, is choosing not to fairly tax the wealthy\u2014who currently pay less than half the effective tax rate of the average New Zealander\u2014a considered and deliberate choice for the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a5db808884746bf9349b85e234177e6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister and myself have indicated in the build-up to the Budget, it is correct that in the economic circumstances that we are in at this time, we do not believe that major tax changes are appropriate. We have made the tax reform that we\u2019d promised to make at the 2020 election. Future policies are for political parties to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0acb3451b54106915d348afd77a284\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government, then, choose to end poverty in tomorrow\u2019s Budget by reforming Working for Families and raising benefits so that no children in this country go without?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022564b69d17a71403dbf274ea6788d8fc6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am extremely proud of the record of this Government when it comes to lifting children out of poverty: 77,000 people, as the Prime Minister has indicated. I\u2019m also extremely proud of the increases that we have made to Working for Families over the time that we have been in Government, and the support that we have given to low and middle income New Zealanders as we\u2019ve found our way through COVID. This is a Budget where we have had to strike a difficult balance, but it will continue to support the most vulnerable in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eac6abb128c40508b6ba73d7eed79c7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government choose to boost teachers\u2019, nurses\u2019, midwives\u2019, and emergency service workers\u2019 wages and conditions to rival Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9376ae820c1404bbd1dde651603d596\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said many times in the House, that\u2019s something that this Government has been working towards to lift the wages of exactly those people. As we\u2019ve stated before, there is a careful balance to be struck here. But I do take the member\u2019s overall point, which is, actually, there are choices to be made about what we invest in. It does not automatically occur that money goes into our education and our health system to support the people that she is talking about. We have made the choices in previous Budgets to invest there. There are other parties in this House who like to think it\u2019s some magic thing that that happens. It\u2019s not; it\u2019s because the Government chooses to invest in public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc96d8ed0c24171ad43842e06733562\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister acknowledge that all Budget decisions are therefore political choices, and is his Government\u2019s choice tomorrow whether to end poverty and commit now to the necessary radical climate action to keep us below 1.5 degrees Celsius of warming, or continue tinkering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e229691957c4df99cbcb158c945422a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that all Budgets are about getting a balance between the many, many different things that are the responsibility of the Government and the many things that we want to do for the future of New Zealand. I am proud of what we\u2019ve done over the last six years, facing, as we have, COVID; facing, as we have, a difficult economic circumstance; and, now, an extreme weather event. All of those things factor into what we do in the Budget, but this will be another Budget from a Government that cares about people and invests in them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aba17263d22c48a7960ad6c09a60adea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002248ae2850e676498486bbd643d63e4a4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248ae2850e676498486bbd643d63e4a4d\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What action is the Government taking to increase the supply of public housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef0d1e3b9f7411a9f59e0b46025ef36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef0d1e3b9f7411a9f59e0b46025ef36\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is undertaking the biggest State house building programme since the 1970s, adding more than 11,800 net new public homes since 2017, including over 9,000 brand new builds. To put this in perspective, of the public homes in New Zealand today, one in seven has been added in the last five years. This is a significant achievement when you consider that we have been building State houses since 1937. There is a continued focus on delivery in the regions, new build supply, and partnership with community housing providers, M\u0101ori, and iwi. We have made a good start, but we know there is more work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2e24bc00cc416c8639c8c5744c6988\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the Government\u2019s new public houses are in Rotorua?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226667059643e643449d80e97d837f7442\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has added 261 additional public homes in Rotorua since 2017. This is in stark contrast, if we compare the 2008 to 2017 period, to where the number of Housing New Zealand houses fell by 42 places. I\u2019m also happy to report that over 370 new homes are currently in the pipeline and due to be completed in the next few years. This is helped by innovative solutions like off-site manufacturing, where K\u0101inga Ora has delivered 25 homes in Ranolf Street and Malfroy Road, and has another 42 public homes due for completion this year in Quartz Avenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e2469dbeb3433dbde1a9eef0ae4175\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: How is Lower Hutt benefiting from the Government\u2019s new public homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022729c7e91d411495ea4c4471ab62b52cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to report that the Government is making good progress rebuilding public housing in Lower Hutt. We\u2019ve delivered 215 new public houses in Lower Hutt over the past five years, and another 500 are in the pipeline. Under the previous Government, there was a net loss of 314 homes between 2008 and 2017. Over 650 Lower Hutt homes have also undergone the retrofit programme and improved to make them warmer and drier, with more planned to be retrofitted this financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ea3b914481416b9589e60094656c2b\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: Why has there been an increase in delivery of public homes in regional New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022034b8411969a4a28a02fb05cd99c0cd0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Housing providers build public housing when it is financially viable to do so. Prior to 2018, funding for the operating supplement was only available in Auckland and was capped at 50 percent of market rents. In order to increase delivery in regional New Zealand, we made changes to ensure that that operating supplement is available in all regions and is up to 100 percent in regional New Zealand. This means it is once again financially viable for both K\u0101inga Ora and our partners to build outside of our main centres. This has enabled delivery of new, warm, dry public homes in the likes of Nelson and Waimakariri, both with a 27 percent increase in public housing stock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285d46e96adc24eb8a4089a60bb855edb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a909678a8cfa41cead843602986d4bfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a909678a8cfa41cead843602986d4bfd\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that savings and reprioritisations in Budget 2023 will, for the most part, go \u201Ctoward funding agencies\u2019 existing cost pressures\u201D, and what steps, if any, will the Budget include to reduce cost pressures for everyday taxpayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00223617dd33f9ed4c8380b9587310de7d7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223617dd33f9ed4c8380b9587310de7d7f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E For the first part of the question, yes, and for the second part of the question, the member will just have to wait one more sleep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5e1a39f322b4c1d9906ffa291705956\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he more concerned with the cost pressures facing Government departments than he is with the cost pressures facing Kiwi households?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224126519cfc664761bc99e56aca42779d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m absolutely not. I\u2019m extremely concerned with making sure that we support New Zealanders to get through the cost of living crisis that we have. One of the ways we do that is by making sure that there are public services available to support them through that\u2014public services which the member, on her current policy, will not be able to afford to invest in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022158610ae38a84752bb2784480a9934b3\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Have average effective tax rates paid by average-wage earners risen in the past six years, and, if so, by how much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497e0f526d7d4bc784b8ea5a62e89616\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is correct that, as a result of inflation, that has occurred. It has occurred differently for different taxpayers, obviously, but, at an overall level, the Government is in receipt, I believe\u2014last year, I think it was about $600 million more as a result of that. Equally, the tax take has increased significantly more than that because more New Zealanders are in work, more New Zealanders are earning more, and companies in New Zealand are making more money. The Government is making sure that we deliver to New Zealanders through a very difficult period of time, and that includes paying for essential public services. I\u2019m sure the member will have heard in Auckland business circles that those people also want to make sure we invest in public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229129007721f94f27a328560e712af26b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it true that New Zealanders are being hit by higher tax rates, higher prices, higher interest rates, and yet he still refuses to adjust their tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85991e3d8134bc6966d63ac129a8757\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The economic conditions that New Zealanders are in today are a result of many different factors, which the member knows. We also know that it is the responsibility of the Government\u2014as we have shown over the last five years\u2014to support New Zealanders through difficult periods of time. I\u2019m proud of the Government\u2019s record in doing that. It does require a difficult balancing act. The member will know from the conversations she\u2019s been having with Auckland business leaders that they too understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4e45c650cc64d328128fd722af9b996\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Auckland business leaders are concerned that the economy is going downhill fast\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c4ab727c344d06b8afde9579dd6c0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Silence, please. I ask the member to ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a8473c055ea4410bc36c140329b2db9\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the economy is going downhill fast, that New Zealand has the biggest current account deficit in the developed world, he\u2019s run the books into the red, inflation is out of control, and interest rates have climbed higher and faster than in our history?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270a20b6609c46bb81bc7586a7c9da33\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do spend a bit of my time with Auckland business leaders\u2014possibly not quite as much as the member does\u2014and they have expressed some concerns to me. One of those concerns was about the leadership of the National Party; I do admit that. I presume that\u2019s the same concern they express to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f93d1e613a5346419c25e9ac59199d9b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Which result does he think best characterises his wellbeing approach: New Zealanders having to wait longer for health services, increasing violent crime, the longest State house waiting list on record, thousands of children growing up in motel rooms, or New Zealanders enduring a prolonged cost of living crisis for two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd1a1b3360ee4aab8a8dc5d013d7294a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the things that best reflect our wellbeing approach are the fact that 77,000 children have been lifted out of poverty, that we have built more than 10,000 public houses, that we\u2019ve increased Pharmac\u2019s funding by 43 percent, that we\u2019ve extended free and low-cost doctors visits to children under 14, that we\u2019ve expanded school-based health services to over 96,170 students, and that we\u2019ve had 745,000 sessions for mental health within general practice sites. I think our wellbeing approach is shown by the winter energy payment and the Best Start payment. I think it\u2019s shown by the lifts we\u2019ve made to the family tax credit and that we\u2019ve made to main benefits. I think it\u2019s shown by the free-trade agreements we\u2019ve signed that are helping deliver jobs. I think it\u2019s shown by the 62 percent increase that we\u2019ve seen in new entry to specialist practice for nurses, occupational therapy, and social workers. I think it\u2019s shown by the doubling of Pacific scholarships that we\u2019ve had in our time in office. I think it\u2019s shown by the extension of Mana Ake across different regions of New Zealand. I think it\u2019s shown by what we\u2019ve done through the Warmer Kiwi Homes programme\u2014this insulated more than 100,000 homes. There are numerous examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2ea49857894b6ebef3c4e301d1a8f1\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the finance Minister appreciate that, while he can stand there reading out a long list, the reality for everyday New Zealanders, who others in this Parliament are in touch with, is a prolonged cost of living crisis, real wages going backwards, mortgage payments that in many cases have doubled, a struggling economy, and a bleak outlook? That is what his economic policies have delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de2b62f254f14ea48c92a7ca70750799\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely understand and appreciate what New Zealanders are going through. But the negative mind-set of the National Party means they don\u2019t appreciate the hard work New Zealanders have done to get us through COVID, and the fact is that there is a Government that stands alongside those New Zealanders and doesn\u2019t run them down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022299b1eb5fd364fc29098291d196e51bf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Digital Economy and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u00223bfb385750fa42d68baf753d7dbde395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bfb385750fa42d68baf753d7dbde395\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications: What recent announcements has the Government made on expanding provincial connectivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002202cd4a3d24f14a6183cf13b9fc3bf8cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202cd4a3d24f14a6183cf13b9fc3bf8cc\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications):\u003C/span\u003E It was my pleasure to announce, last Friday, that the Government has struck a significant deal with major telecommunications networks to speed up the roll-out of 5G to regional towns right across New Zealand. Through these agreements with Spark, 2degrees, and One NZ, 55 rural and regional towns will receive expedited 5G services to help with economic growth and recovery for our provinces. This is in exchange for long-term access to 3.5 GHz spectrum band, allowing these companies to operate their 5G networks nationwide. From Oamaru to \u014Ctorohanga, Motueka to Murupara, this deal means that 5G connectivity is one step closer for more New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58ca949c58a4be99d357e31a53d561b\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government choose not to auction this spectrum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641d4352df3445d99734fa15b7658cf2\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very simple: we had something the networks wanted\u2014radio spectrum\u2014and they had something we wanted\u2014faster roll-out of 5G to provinces. That puts us in a unique position to negotiate an allocation and hit two birds with one stone. In exchange for commitments made by the major network operators, the Government will provide each of the three major operators with sufficient spectrum to operate their 5G networks nationwide. That\u2019s great news, no matter where you are\u2014Te Awamutu, Te Aroha, Taumarunui, or Te Puke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8b395ed808c4379a99364c20167e1b6\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: What else does this deal include?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624bfaa41124475cb26e2fa304f38fc6\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Interim M\u0101ori Spectrum Commission will receive 100 MHz of spectrum, in line with the previous agreement achieved with M\u0101ori. They will manage this spectrum on behalf of all M\u0101ori, ensuring equitable access and the benefits of 5G technology. To support rural connectivity, Spark, One NZ, and 2degrees will each contribute $24 million to the Government between 2023 and 2025. This funding will be utilised by the Rural Connectivity Group to expand mobile coverage into rural areas that would not have been otherwise commercially viable, bringing mobile blackspots down and ensuring comprehensive coverage. That\u2019s more good news, from Greymouth to Greytown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f709c39fbd4ad5816f912d377b488a\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How does this build on existing initiatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b318dbf2d55c4cafa1de671580e779cb\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has continued to invest in connectivity for all of New Zealand. The agreement builds upon previous Government investment, including the allocation of $60 million through Budget 2022 for rural connectivity improvements. Additionally, $47 million has been invested in rural capacity upgrades which began in February of last year. With fibre and wireless now covering almost all New Zealanders, we know New Zealanders are getting connected faster in regions like Waitara, Wellsford, Wairoa, or any of the 42 towns I haven\u2019t already mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2cdd1595d06424199002802ac611ff7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022e72375bd6eb540809279cf10ee60fd85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e72375bd6eb540809279cf10ee60fd85\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: Does he stand by his recent statement, \u201CWe have hard data confirming fundamental unfairness in our tax system\u201D; if so, what specific policies, if any, has he proposed to Cabinet to address unfairness in the tax system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb1b064fe8cb4f86b31077288602dece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb1b064fe8cb4f86b31077288602dece\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the first part of the member\u2019s question, yes. For the first time ever, we have concrete data that indisputably shows that the effective tax rate paid by middle-income New Zealanders is much, much higher than that paid by our wealthiest citizens. Recent research from Inland Revenue has shone a light on the wealth, income, and tax paid by 311 of New Zealand\u2019s high-wealth individuals, their life partners, and dependent children. They had an average of $276 million in net assets, totalling $85 billion for that group. The study showed that 93 percent of that group\u2019s income comes from investment returns and that their effective tax rate, including the GST they pay in their expenditure, was 9.5 percent. In response to the second part of the member\u2019s question: as always, Cabinet discussions are confidential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a98631b9ae9400f83b02519bbe8ab8e\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: What is he doing to respond to the recent report, which estimates $7 billion per year is being stolen from Aotearoa taxpayers in tax evasion and tax avoidance enabled by a tax system that allows the rich to evade tax, further placing the burden on wage and salary earners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489515feef97441c98ef8b4708d434d5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The study didn\u2019t show that there was illegal behaviour by anyone; it just showed that the incidence of taxation falls much more on people who earn their living from their labour and wages and salaries than it does on those who earn their money by returns on investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b20df244884b4db8177e0369fc38a9\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Will he significantly raise the budget of the Serious Fraud Office to enable them to properly investigate white-collar criminals who use lawyers, bankers, and accountants to get around paying their fair share of tax; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a448eb6899a4b58bde844309c09f2a0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, there is no evidence of illegal behaviour here on any great scale. But what this study does show is that it is necessary for Inland Revenue to have the proper powers to investigate who\u2019s paying what in the tax system, and this report shines a light on what we think are unfairnesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ba10649be674f939e2379848f0cb391\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was would the Government invest in the Serious Fraud Office. I don\u2019t think the Minister came anywhere near\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016f59f2c146468080230369a2744a0a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s definitely addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022936470aa978e489f84580bd3b0748ca3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u00220d518589e05a4ee983d211ef608a3251\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d518589e05a4ee983d211ef608a3251\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What progress can he report on the work he is doing on the pricing of groceries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224b76692b4f434d75a49d9d848542f1f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b76692b4f434d75a49d9d848542f1f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Heaps is what we can do and what we\u2019ve done. We\u2019re taking actions to get Kiwis the best possible deal for their groceries at the checkout. This follows the market study into groceries that showed super-profits being made by the New Zealand supermarket duopoly. We are letting the little guys buy from the supermarket warehouses, putting an end to anti-competitive land agreements that shut competitors out, making a code for how supermarkets must deal with suppliers and we\u2019ve established a groceries commissioner as a permanent watchdog for the sector, and more: last week, we closed consultation on a new unit-pricing requirement. This will empower shoppers to compare the prices of similar products much more easily, helping Kiwis get the best out of their budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ca951c5caa4a1f97a7831712808eb3\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: How does unit pricing work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b500144629db47519c0d8c5a1e96af88\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Unit pricing helps consumers choose the best deal for their needs by comparing value and price. It\u2019s particularly helpful where products are sold in different-sized packaging and by different brands. New rules will require supermarkets and other large grocery retailers to clearly and consistently display the price per unit of product so they can be compared more easily\u2014for example, the price per 100 grams or by litre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0f26f02a3642fab455f6413280ac9e\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: Will unit pricing bring prices down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d8cf85abad4a898baf439b73db0216\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c00b0952784d50acaa8742fa3922eb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205510cdba1b4200b5b4921b1e1fb29c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Funny you should ask that. We know that consumers exercising more power with their product choices is likely to have an impact on the prices themselves. That\u2019s because it keeps supermarkets and their suppliers in check on any prices that might be confusing or unfair. It makes prices more transparent, including price hikes. Unit pricing stimulates different brands to compete on value, and that\u2019s great for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeffc86e9e974809bc84a058d6ae529b\u0022\u003EDan Rosewarne\u003C/span\u003E: What can Kiwis expect to see in the difference in their grocery bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022284fca6d80344e53a425e35b5b25ad78\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: The super-profits in the grocery sector have been many years in the making, and that is why we take bold, concerted, and consistent action. We\u2019re committed to see that work in the many steps we\u2019re taking. We expect unit pricing to be immediately helpful to Kiwis on tight budgets, and also helpful over time for everyone wanting to see their supermarket brands competing on value. We know budgets are tight right now, but we\u2019re here to back Kiwi consumers to get the best deal possible, whatever it takes, not like the ACT Party and their National Party mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202002699b6cc4808b731a5bc2e557bb9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How much is 2 litres of milk and a loaf of bread?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eafef308e7744ba1a99e97a65cee58f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Seymour, it depends where you go. If you go to The Warehouse, you can get 2 litres of milk for $3, the same milk is $3.50 at the supermarket, but if you buy Meadow Fresh, it\u2019s about $5.70. So my message to you is shop around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e5968b33cd34be59fb50a0d0d1a6970\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, question No. 10, Erica Stanford. [Interruption] Order! Settle down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226af5e5f935994e22a97a2687a75e327c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7bec3f5c497425fb5ec7ca368260c28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7bec3f5c497425fb5ec7ca368260c28\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by all her statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcfa35a2144a4d5eb6af0797047ee4ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcfa35a2144a4d5eb6af0797047ee4ec\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d018a6193bd84a88b16a42e30a950c1a\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Are the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS) reading results released last night, showing New Zealand\u2019s score in reading has fallen to its lowest ever, consistent with her statement in this House that \u201Cprogress has remained constant\u201D since 2017\u2014meaning no significant change has been shown? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65530d4f0cc4334b84b5d35d0c35175\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: The member continues to be fixated on generating a negative story, but the facts are much more promising. New Zealand\u2019s year 5 students\u2019 performance is above the international mean in this international assessment of reading literacy. In PIRLS 2021, New Zealand recorded an average reading literacy score of 521, which is significantly higher than the international average of 500 and consistent with our score in PIRLS 2016. But that doesn\u2019t mean there isn\u2019t more work to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218cb9b0154bb493ea93e881959c4be4d\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that under her Government, according to these PIRLS reading results released last night, the results of the lowest quartile of our students are performing much worse than the lowest quartile of students who rank much lower than New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e24d826583674357aeeb2f91f9bb46c0\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve always been very open about the fact that there is a big discrepancy in our reading achievement\u2014it is not new. The difference this time is that this Government is doing something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228172a7bd5b1f453b9df5f8fea09fc4e4\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Given these results, why is it that the young people who are most disadvantaged in New Zealand, who stand to benefit the most from being able to read, aren\u2019t on track to benefit from a good education to break cycles of intergenerational poverty under her Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224282a2d0b542424e94e9680871a99a65\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is doing something about lifting achievement levels in this country. We have introduced the common practice model, which is the work that we\u2019re doing that will come into play from 2024, and it will lift reading and literacy achievement levels in this country. But, first and foremost, this Government has acted on lifting achievement levels by getting rid of national standards. We have put in place a literacy plan to lift literacy teaching and learning, we have implemented progress steps to indicate essential time-sensitive aspects of literacy at each phase of learning, we have funded tutoring sessions for secondary school students whose learning was impacted by COVID-19, we\u2019ve rolled out the Better Start Literacy Approach, and we have introduced ready to read phonics. We know that there is way more to do. We know that these result indicate action, and that\u2019s exactly what this Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca760a1b07148ef916a0f6456871b87\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Can she explain how these international PIRLS reading results for our lowest quartile of students doesn\u2019t just confirm that this Government is failing our most disadvantaged students, where less than a third of decile 1 students attend school regularly and only 10 percent of decile 1 students can pass a basic literacy and numeracy NCEA assessment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9dc7b39d3e4b51b93f8e3cd181f081\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in this House before, that is part of a pilot programme. I disagree with that speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bded0573da44de8990180c307eaa371\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 11\u2014oh, a further supplementary, sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12639546b8b438f9b1d98630a755a84\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Final question, Mr Speaker. To the Minister: can she explain how 70 percent of New Zealanders surveyed do not believe her Government has done enough to address failing literacy and numeracy results, despite all of the previous answers she\u2019s given us today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022427eb0b8f78d49339f43f1d80c188f81\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I know that that member is very, very interested in poll results, but New Zealanders can be assured that the Government is taking urgent action to address maths and literacy, and I absolutely acknowledge that there is more to do. The results won\u2019t turn around overnight, but we have laid the foundations by investing heavily in medium to long term curriculum development that is evidence-based and world leading. This is on the back of little investment in the previous years prior to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc276a7218f444c8556e6f9753c50a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the decision taken by the previous Government to make it easier for secondary school students to achieve the literacy and numeracy requirements of NCEA improved or diminished literacy and numeracy levels in New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba4b5b2f361244b89f04ef6b9618b94d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I found that really difficult to hear. There were interjections through it, and now you\u2019re\u2014[Interruption] I\u2019m on my feet. I\u2019m about to make a ruling. I\u2019m ruling that question out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2a5e6647db045349a888c8a72586e90\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c838d8bfb2b04840b311802e954f9423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c838d8bfb2b04840b311802e954f9423\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is she confident that New Zealanders are able to see their GP when they need to, or enrol with a GP at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfe44c78adb4442db3e78b4e8e9e08b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfe44c78adb4442db3e78b4e8e9e08b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that in New Zealand, as of 1\u00A0May 2023, 4,882,883 individuals\u2014or approximately 94 percent of the population\u2014are enrolled in general practices. There are also a number of initiatives under way to address the pressures on GPs and improve access to primary care, improving providing alternative avenues to good care, providing staff and funding for general practices, and increasing the number of general practitioners practising in New Zealand. We know there are challenges in the primary care sector and there is always more work to do, and we\u2019re getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d69cd0911d4c258eae469f243c5caf\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: What are the consequences of New Zealand having only one GP for every 820 people, compared to Australia having one GP for every 575 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022591db1c76c4d4c5d979dd372f715a412\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is important that we improve access to primary care, and one of the goals of the health reforms is to re-orientate ourselves in that direction. There is a number of initiatives under way to that end after the pandemic. That includes making sure that we have our immigration settings right to get general practitioners, including working with the Medical Council to see regulation for overseas-trained doctors to train directly in primary care, raising the number of general practice training positions, and making sure that those general practice registrars are appropriately remunerated for their training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227041466060af4b84a8f36dcb2231a849\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to people who find it unacceptable that GP capitation levels increased by only 3 percent last year, when inflation increased by 7 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb27aca698e84b67aae122455af2d8e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I say to those people that if you want to see the track record of Government funding for primary care, then that party over there supported a Government that raised primary care funding by 1.2 percent. This Government is offering a 5 percent increase to primary care this year\u2014the highest ever. I know general practitioners are far too smart to buy the empty promises of the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210198cd78268404fabb0e985a8989165\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Will her Government commit to adopting ACT\u2019s policy of increasing GP capitation levels by 13 percent\u2014enough to subsidise an additional 2.5 million extra GP visits\u2014to ensure accessible healthcare for everyday Kiwis, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226476ef850578497597915be30c5cc225\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I believe we\u2019ve covered the major creditability gap with a party that has only supported a Government that led to a 1.2 percent annual increase in funding for primary care, compared to the increases we are and have overseen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa9a60ca2b84b80ac9cd61c3e4cec4a\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister raised with the Minister of Finance an increase to GP capitation, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed26576ac09a4cc58865dcaaa9787961\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have a number of discussions with the Minister of Finance of this Government\u2019s vision for an inclusive, accessible, and successful primary-care sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ab4a76757a4fc39746f1465246854b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 12, the Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a41e69dbeab4452983c1ad87d03bd265\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a very specific question\u2014has she discussed with the Minister of Finance an increase to GP capitation levels\u2014and she did not address that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10c6178d915483a8f3dbf36506cfcd0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, she did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2ae13a555cf410dbb7562572ac1f852\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00222f724e525fca4cc689bd094333937e08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f724e525fca4cc689bd094333937e08\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CIt is my view that New Zealanders feel safer\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022cccb4484481746efb1adc7c8b5c37ee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cccb4484481746efb1adc7c8b5c37ee2\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. For the third time, I stand by my full statement that it is my view that New Zealanders feel safer with a Government on track to deliver 1,800 extra police. As the Minister of Police, I remain committed to making New Zealanders feel safer through the actions this Government is taking, including the delivery of 1,800 additional police, the roll-out of the Tactical Response Model, and also establishing a firearms registry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222166725b469946bea600140bdfd60fea\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that New Zealanders feel safer when the Government\u2019s firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) have only been used twice in nine months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd87a3807cfa46cea9e6c8ed98509e0a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The reality of a firearms prohibition order is that when it is issued, it is done at sentencing by a judge. It is a tool that this Government developed in legislation to enable the judiciary to enable an extra tool. I find it rich from that member, when they talked about and read Cabinet papers about firearm prohibition orders for nine years and failed to deliver one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac583b3bb39648248e2e0868550d636a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government vote down firearms prohibition orders that the Opposition brought to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022959978c4ba4f4dcdb8ae43c7b9e9b60d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: This Government brought a fit for purpose rule that did not breach the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and we passed that legislation and it\u2019s now enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022126445bb7c88494ca1d833bfe3a22563\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government bring a bill to this House that has only been used twice in nine months, with a rising incidence of gang members carrying firearms and using them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222debc6c2099c4c099c3ee15a52882824\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to talk the member through the process of a firearms prohibition order so he understands how the court process works. The orders empower judges to prohibit anyone convicted of a firearms-related offence and other offences, including murder and serious violent offences, from accessing or using guns. Following a full police investigation, police charge a defendant with a qualifying offence. The defendant appears in court. The ordinary prosecution process takes place. Due to the nature of criminal proceedings, there is no onesizefitsall model for what the prosecution process or for what the qualifying offence looks like. The defendant then either pleads or is found guilty of the qualifying offence, and they will appear for sentencing in respect of that offence, at which time the court may make an FPO as part of the sentencing process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e70d1109104443ab8cccc8045a50cc\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government pass a weak bill when they were warned by the Police Association that if they did, it wouldn\u2019t be used, and nine months later, it\u2019s been used twice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022217f82f118f7425dba09b6b071cdb01f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d be wary of quoting the Police Association, given that member\u2019s current stance on the firearms registry. The current bill passed and enacted by this Government provides the courts with a good tool that is utilised to enable those dangerous people who have access to firearms to have prohibition orders put over them, just as the firearms registry, when live, will do the same process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f2f0e424524958bbf670a4aeae3795\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any party in this House that voted against Government legislation that made it harder for gangs to get firearms and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f070f04e194514a2082583b8e6bb0a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s out of order. That concludes oral questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6bf7f01435547b2891fd9e8e523d01b\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022820c624965784e58ba88e656d9548867\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd6f9b2a29cb4acfa687d781326ab497\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd6f9b2a29cb4acfa687d781326ab497\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ll just hold up the M\u0101nawatia a Matariki again. [Applause] Thank you, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere are only 11 weeks until the House rises for the election, and tomorrow the Minister of Finance delivers his sixth Budget. Even in the difficult circumstances that the country faces, he will be able to deliver a Budget that is appropriate for the circumstances and the times. On this side of the House, we look forward to the delivery of that Budget with some anticipation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EBut compare that to the negativity that emanates from the other side of the House. That negativity started in 2017 under Simon Bridges, it ramped up under Judith Collins, and it\u2019s just continued on under the negative National Party\u2019s current manager. Negative Chris Luxon constantly talks down New Zealand. You see, he called beneficiaries \u201Cbottom feeders\u201D. What a term to use to describe New Zealanders who are having difficulties. He heads over to the UK to some right-wing thinktank and talks to businesses over there, and he says that New Zealand\u2019s businesses are soft. His social media is always attacking others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just say, lighten up, Chris\u2014lighten up. Things are tough at the moment, but we will get through this time by being pragmatic and by being focused. And I just say, bro, your negativity is dragging you down, and then tell that to all your other negative National sidekicks over there. Even on a sunny Wellington day like today, a dark cloud just hovers over the top of them. It just hangs there. I hear they have even set up their own civil defence emergency management group to deal with the flood of negativity that emanates from their party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, though, we aren\u2019t wasting time complaining; we\u2019re getting on with the job, supporting Kiwis today and building for tomorrow. While the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D over there plots to slash our public services and send New Zealand backwards, we\u2019re investing in Kiwis through things like our cyclone recovery package, which will fix roads, it will rebuild schools, and it\u2019ll support our mental health in cyclone-impacted regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E And while the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D sticks their heads in the sand over climate change, we\u2019re taking action through things like the Clean Car Discount. You know, they go on about the utes\u2014having to pay more for those high-polluting things\u2014and yet, at the same time, they complain about the cost to farmers when the farm gets washed out, when the fences get flooded, and all that sort of stuff. But they complain about the things that we\u2019re doing to mitigate climate change. We\u2019re also phasing out things like coal boilers in schools and partnering with businesses to stop burning fossil fuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAs New Zealand heads towards a general election, it couldn\u2019t be clearer what is at stake. And what is at stake is equity, what is at stake is investment in wellbeing, and what\u2019s at stake is the focus on supporting New Zealanders, not tearing them down. We\u2019ve supported low-income New Zealanders and families and brought 77,000 children out of poverty. We heard both the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister talk about the raft of things that we have done to help New Zealanders. We\u2019ve built more public housing, as the Minister of Housing, Megan Woods, said. We\u2019re building new hospitals and we\u2019re building more schools, as the Minister of Education has told us. We\u2019ve introduced fair pay agreements and pay equity. Imagine that, pay equity: paying people what they\u2019re worth. We\u2019ve introduced that legislation to make sure Kiwis get a fair pay for a fair day\u2019s work. We\u2019ve introduced the first uniquely\u2014let me find it again\u2014New Zealand public holiday in Matariki; and, again, look at the negativity that emanated from the other side of the House towards something that is so positive and so inclusive. It\u2019s a holiday, and they\u2019re upset about having a day off\u2014well, mind you, maybe between a holiday and a day at work, they can\u2019t tell the difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo these projects are all at stake under a Government led by the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D. We don\u2019t know what National\u2019s financial plan looks like; we\u2019d like to know what National\u2019s financial plan looks like. But if it\u2019s anything like ACT\u2019s, it\u2019ll include a plan to slash taxes for the rich while cutting essential services which everyday Kiwis rely on. Also what\u2019s going to go is Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, Te Arawhiti, the Ministry for Women, the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the Ministry for Pacific Peoples, and the Human Rights Commission. It\u2019s disgraceful what\u2019s at stake with the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddabc3ba2e4e4fa28560ffe49422583f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddabc3ba2e4e4fa28560ffe49422583f\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E What if Aotearoa was a country where we held up housing as a human right, as a place for people to put down roots, to live in as homes, and not just a way to make a few uber-wealthy? What if Aotearoa committed to upholding the mana of all people, the way that all people deserve? What if we had a country where people could access the healthcare they need, the housing they need, the incomes they need, the education that will uplift everyone? What if that was the Aotearoa that we would all commit to in this House? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to offer my aroha ki ng\u0101 mate kua haere ki te p\u014D\u00A0[compassion to the casualties that have passed on into the night]. Those who lost their lives and wellbeing at Loafers Lodge yesterday; those who are connected to those people whose lives were lost; those who helped to try and save, and did indeed rescue, and now also have their own trauma, loss, and grief to deal with, including the first responders and also the broader community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe loss of lives and wellbeing from yesterday could have been prevented. And that\u2019s what I want to say clearly today. These are about political choices that led us to the situation yesterday, which is tragic, unacceptable, and did not need to happen. Political choices have prevented us all from having the Aotearoa that I laid out at the start\u2014an Aotearoa that we all deserve. Political will\u2014and lack of it\u2014has been in the way of something that isn\u2019t that radical, if we have a think about it; some decent, dignified lives for everybody and not just for the few. Collective responsibility should be here to be able to change all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe tragedy yesterday asks\u2014and begs us to ask\u2014what do we value the most? What are the choices where people can have housing as a human right, where we have a comprehensive warrant of fitness, a health system that works for everyone, rent controls, things that are for the public good, income support for people who really need it, better wages and conditions? Those are public-good concepts. Those will do us all well. And where first responders, including firefighters, have what they need to do what they want to do, which is to care for everyone and save all of the lives they can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe problems, many of them, which resulted in yesterday also include boarding houses and accommodation that had been unsafe and unacceptable before one of the houses burnt down yesterday. So many of us\u2014and I mihi to my Green Party colleagues\u2014have been highlighting this before the house burnt down and took lives yesterday. We will continue to raise that space in here about who and what do we value the most. The Greens are constantly asking for a warrant of fitness; scaling-up public council housing, public housing, State housing, community housing\u2014affordable, good housing. Not a radical ask, I would think\u2014especially in this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe profit off misery\u2014the profit off misery\u2014that this place has allowed to happen is completely scandalous. The way that we have over 40 years\u2014over 40 years, at least\u2014in this House led an economic model that is today seeing people profit off misery. The people who have so little choice. Would any of us be content with any of our wh\u0101nau\u2014people we love and care for\u2014living with such little choice? The people without the resources and power and influence to be able to stand in this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThis place is supposed to be a House of Representatives. Just today, we have had more information; this place is not representative. Not all of us own multiple houses and are going to make rules to change the system, are going to make the choices so that everyone can have a good place to live. How can we trust this House when it is not representative? I would like to think, no matter how many houses people owned, we could still come to a contractual agreement for social good; for public good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EYesterday was unacceptable. We have solutions here that the Greens have been laying out for decades and I urge us all to pick those up and value people who have long been asking to be valued, who have long been accepting unacceptable standards as if that\u2019s all they deserve. We can do better. We\u2019ve got the solutions here. It\u2019s political will. It\u2019s political choice. I urge people to pay responsibility to everyone having dignity and not just building up the wealth for the few. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6942ccb3aa4ce08649855dc2d14443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6942ccb3aa4ce08649855dc2d14443\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I too want to express my sympathies to those affected by the fire in Loafers Lodge in Newtown. When I was a junior doctor, it was my neighbourhood. I made a point of living two minutes from the emergency department, and living there and working there, I saw some of the people with complex conditions who came and went from the hospital; who were also the familiar faces we\u2019d see on the streets of Newtown. Sadly, one of those is among those reported as unaccounted for from the fire. I want to express my deepest thanks to the first responders, including paramedics and those who cared and those who continue to care for people affected by the fire in the emergency department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn reflecting on this urgent debate today, I want to say what an important and great opportunity we have through our reformed health system to create a truly equitable, high-quality, and patient-centred system. We know that our system has not been fair for everyone. It was too complex and fragmented, it was orientated around the convenience of providers rather than that of patients, and healthcare became dependent on where you live. On this side of the House, we believe that that\u2019s not good enough. We are focused on reforms to create a more equitable system, where all people and wh\u0101nau and their communities are supported in their health and wellbeing aspirations. So I see this opportunity as the greatest in a generation, but the difficulty and complexity of our task cannot be overestimated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ETransformational change like this doesn\u2019t happen overnight, and it will take time for deeper issues, like resourcing and inequality, to start to improve. But I want to talk about the way that we are doing it, and one example is through our winter plan, where we are using the power of our one national health system to commission services closer to people\u2019s homes, and where we are making the best use of our talented professionals to mean that pharmacists and general practitioners and others can practise at the top of their scope and be empowered to help people in their communities more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EOur health sector needs a change to do more like this, and I am determined to support it to do so. Services need to work for everyone and for the wellbeing of their communities, and there is a positive vision of our health system that we can realise through the reforms. But what do we hear from the other side of the House? Nothing but constant negativity, white-anting, and the failed policies of the 1990s that got us into this mess. New Zealanders need to know that a vote for the Opposition is a vote that puts their health services at risk. It\u2019s clear that National\u2019s tax plan\u2014tax cuts for the highest-earning New Zealanders\u2014means massive cuts to health, to education, to housing, and to all the social services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENational will try and tell New Zealanders they won\u2019t make cuts, but without cuts their tax plan does not add up. A National-ACT coalition will cut taxes, but that means cuts to essential services, whereas we have increased funding to Pharmac by 51 percent since 2017, which has enabled them to purchase drugs like Trikafta for cystic fibrosis. A vote for the Opposition puts that at risk. We have increased the base rate for registered nurses by 43 percent since 2017, and we remain committed to settling pay equity claims. A vote for the Opposition puts that at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe have funded and developed services like Decide, the national free abortion telehealth service. A vote for the Opposition puts that service at risk. We have created the M\u0101ori Health Authority. We are supporting by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori services to reduce the life expectancy gap. A vote for the Opposition puts that progress at risk. We have funded the roll-out of primary mental health services that are available in communities up and down the country. A vote for the Opposition puts that at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EUnder this Government, health infrastructure spending has increased substantially since 2017, compared to the many years of austerity with no funding of health capital infrastructure under National. That has allowed us to get on and build improved services across the country, fixing and building hospitals. That is at risk with a vote for the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThere is too much at risk in this election\u2014too much at stake\u2014and we cannot afford to go backwards. There is no doubt we are living in challenging times, but we have a plan to create a more equitable health system that\u2019s focused on the needs of New Zealanders, and we\u2019re getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea34bc4a41154952b2667c32f3917fe4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea34bc4a41154952b2667c32f3917fe4\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand is going backwards under Labour, and it is causing great fear for many Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI spoke to a woman in Birkenhead recently who said to me, with tears in her eyes and anguish on her face, \u201CHow will I convince my daughter to stay here in New Zealand when it is getting so much harder to get ahead; when the cost of living is so high; when people feel unsafe; when there are ram raids every day; when the health system is falling apart, with longer waiting lists; when education standards are falling?\u201D She said to me, \u201CThey all want to leave for Australia, because it looks better over there right now, doesn\u2019t it? The Government books are in surplus. The economy grew last year, at the end, while ours shrank. They\u2019re delivering tax cuts to middle-income earners. There are lower interest rates. What I want is a Government that will fight to keep New Zealanders here at home, that will fight to show them that this is a country that can deliver them a better future, a country where there will be a lower cost of living, where a Government will bring discipline to spending, where it will let people keep more of what they earn, and where it will grow the economy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut the members opposite have given up on that. They have completely and utterly given up, and it is deeply sad to see that not only has Labour given up on giving people reasons to stay here in New Zealand; they are now actively encouraging New Zealanders to stay in Australia and not come home. I\u2019m holding, in my hand, two advertisements that the New Zealand Labour Party has paid for with $10,000 of taxpayer money\u2014advertisements paid for by Parliamentary Service and authorised by Chris Hipkins. What these ads do is target some of those bright, talented, hard-working New Zealanders currently living in Australia and they say to them, \u201CHere\u2019s how you become an Australian citizen.\u201D Well, I find it sad. Because here is the news, if you\u2019ll stop and listen: it is not your job to convince people to leave; it\u2019s your job to convince them to come home. So what kind of a Government prioritises using $10,000 of taxpayers\u2019 money\u2014hard-earned\u2014to advertise to Kiwis that they should stay away, they should become Australian citizens? That is how upside-down things have got in that Labour Government, and Chris Hipkins has signed off on it. As if the current brain drain isn\u2019t enough; as if it isn\u2019t enough that we\u2019ve got 4,000 nurses short in our hospitals; as if it isn\u2019t enough that New Zealanders feel so oppressed by inflation, by rising interest rates, by their wages falling behind, the Labour Government says, \u201CWell, actually, we\u2019re going to use your money that we\u2019ve been overtaxing you with, to tell the Kiwis who have jumped the Ditch to stay right there.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThat is how badly Labour has given up, and you can see it. You can see it when Grant Robertson is sitting here in this Parliament making excuses for why New Zealanders should simply tolerate the fact that their real wages have gone backwards; they should simply tolerate the fact that the Government is spending at record levels and yet isn\u2019t delivering better outcomes; they should simply tolerate paying more tax, paying higher prices, paying higher interest rates\u2014because, in the finance Minister\u2019s world, it\u2019s all too hard!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWell, I say it is time for a National Government, who will have, as a driving mission, our desire to make this a country that more New Zealanders want to stay in. We want to say to that mother, \u201CWe\u2019ll give your daughter a reason to stay here, because she will see a growing economy where she can get ahead, with safer communities, with better health services, and with education standards that are climbing not falling.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis country is better than Australia. The only people who don\u2019t think that are the members opposite, who are telling New Zealanders that they should make their life there. Well, I\u2019ll tell you the difference between Chris Hipkins and Chris Luxon: Chris Luxon won\u2019t be advertising to New Zealanders telling them to leave; he will be giving them reasons to stay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022d62fb3a4b8af4b308e6c04c419f0b311\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d62fb3a4b8af4b308e6c04c419f0b311\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E If that is not the most negative speech I have almost ever heard\u2014it\u2019s almost anti - New Zealand, what we just heard from negative Nicola. Now, I\u2019m not sure what the rumours are up in those Auckland chambers of commerce, but we might have just heard from somebody believed to be New Zealand\u2019s next Prime Minister. My goodness me, New Zealand, if this negative vision for Aotearoa is what\u2019s on offer, then this country is in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EBut fear not\u2014fear not, New Zealand\u2014because we have at the helm Christopher Hipkins, aka Chippy. This is a man that is focused on the bread and butter issues. He\u2019s out there on the streets, born and raised in Upper Hutt. He has worked diligently for a New Zealand that we can all be proud of. On top of that, he\u2019s just been named as one of the best dressers in the world. Kudos to Barkers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EBut that aside, I want to talk about what we have done. This Government has invested in our regions. Just last week, I traipsed up and down the East Coast region looking at the people we had invested in, looking at the roads that we had invested in, looking at the businesses up and down. All throughout Aotearoa, our regions are filled with New Zealanders committed to staying in their regions, because our Government has invested in this place here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, though, we\u2019ve heard from the Opposition. We\u2019ve heard that they want to bring about cut, cut, cut, cut. They want a \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D\u2014that\u2019s all we\u2019ve heard. I just want to remind New Zealand of the last time that the National and the ACT Party\u2014the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D\u2014were in and what they did to New Zealand\u2019s justice system. If you remember, they closed police stations. They didn\u2019t fund the police. They froze the police budget year on year\u2014that\u2019s right. They tried and they failed to get firearms prohibition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1bc868e8c7f4e2da2d3fae8b4a2a3ac\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand was much safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170a8fe1ab9246fe9481d72cc7a3ad0f\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014orders over the line. Well, if Mr Mitchell thought New Zealand was safer then, either (a) his memory\u2019s a little foggy, or (b) he just doesn\u2019t read the stats. New Zealand was not safer back then, but he can plead all he likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOne thing, though: whilst we\u2019re on a little bit of history reflection, let\u2019s reflect on the ghosts of the past. Oh, that\u2019s right. One thing about this current iteration of the National Party: they clearly aren\u2019t the party that was the John Key and Bill English Government\u2014I\u2019ll tell you that. That was with a Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance that denounced prisons as a moral and fiscal failure. That was a Government that said, \u201CWe know that a key to reducing crime in the long term is to stop young people entering the justice system in the first place.\u201D This approach is also a central principle of New Zealand and international laws and guidelines\u2014steering young people away from a life of crime and ensuring they don\u2019t get caught up in the justice system increases the chance that they will reach their full potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, that was the basis of the John Key, of the Bill English, justice policy. However, the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D is now promoting a half-a-billion - dollar investment. That is what the National Party is supporting: a half-a-billion - dollar investment into kiddie prisons\u2014kiddie prisons. This is the one thing that I think the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D has done that the Mongrel Mob will actually like. You are literally creating a kiddie kindergarten for criminals and gangs. That\u2019s a half-a-billion-dollar investment. That is the National-ACT justice policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we take an evidence-based approach. The things that we do: we put an extra 1,600 police on the front lines. That\u2019s what this Government has done; one that takes law and order seriously. We\u2019ve increased the police budget every single year. Now, how\u2019s the \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D going to pay for extra police? No, no\u2014that\u2019s right. They\u2019re going to find some more money to invest in kiddie prisons\u2014kindergarten prisons. This is a Government focused on New Zealand, and we are so proud of the work we have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022de01fddc02da43c5bafa1c36528f6cea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de01fddc02da43c5bafa1c36528f6cea\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to be talking today, and I just want to start out by saying that I listened to the deputy leader of the Labour Party, the Hon Kelvin Davis, talk about something really, really important today: Matariki. Basically, we were talking about another holiday, and I thought that that was the most important thing that the Minister could talk about with all the goings on in New Zealand at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFirstly, I want to talk about something that I think is actually much more important. I want to talk about the business community, the lifeblood of New Zealand in terms of driving this economy forward, funding the wasteful spending that that Government has embarked upon over the last six years. What I wanted to bring to the attention of the House is a raft of very important surveys that have come out\u2014three very important surveys\u2014and what they paint is a poor picture. They paint a dreadful picture of the ordinary mum and dad out there who are trying to live, trying to create a business, and trying to earn a wage, who are supporting their employees and working alongside them, and how difficult things have become. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut don\u2019t worry, we\u2019ve got the saviour, we\u2019ve got the business specialists, we\u2019ve got the business owner\u2014not. We have got the new Minister for Small Business, the Hon Ginny Andersen, because I know she\u2019s absolutely razor-focused on this issue. I just did notice, though, that since she has become the Minister, she\u2019s issued two press releases\u2014one relating to fog cannons and one relating to the flood victims\u2014but she has taken no Cabinet papers at all since she\u2019s become the Minister for Small Business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ELook, these surveys paint a dreadful picture, as I said: 70 percent of business owners now believe that the economy is going to get worse\u201470 percent; that\u2019s a staggering amount of people\u2014and a lot of it\u2019s due to slowing sales. That means\u2014read another term\u2014there is a cost of living crisis, which means that anyone on New Zealand has less money now to go out and buy stuff in the shops and go and buy things for their family, because they have less money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, this is all leading to this dramatic loss in business confidence. Again, 70 percent believe that things are going to get worse, and that is really bad metrics, because when business owners lose confidence, what do they do? They stop investing, they stop new buying new plant, and they stop hiring new people. Worse than that, if they think it\u2019s going to get worse\u2014which they will under Labour\u2014they will start firing staff, and that is the worst outcome that we could have in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, what are the issues that they highlight? Well, a shortage of skilled staff\u2014of course, we\u2019ve heard about that. In every business I go to, what is the issue? The first issue is, \u201CI can\u2019t get enough staff.\u201D But, of course, it\u2019s rising inflation, it\u2019s rising fuel and transport costs, and it\u2019s rising interest costs. Why has that happened? Why are our interest rates going up? It\u2019s because we\u2019ve had a Government that just loves spending money and wasting money, and, of course, the Reserve Bank Governor, who has said it outright, explicitly\u2014he\u2019s had to raise the official cash rate, the Reserve Bank rate, because the Government can\u2019t control itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo what does all this mean going forward? It is a time where business owners have had to now stretch deep into their own pockets to fund their own businesses, and, of course, many of them are now turning to their credit cards. This is one of the things that came out in the surveys. Of course, credit cards are really expensive. Forty percent of small and medium-sized enterprises have said that they have been unsuccessful in getting further credit from their banks over the last 12 months\u2014that\u2019s a staggeringly high figure\u2014and so they are financially strained. That is the worst thing, and with interest rates driving up, that\u2019s when you need money, because your interest cost on your debt is going to mean that you\u2019ve got to find more revenue to cover those costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAll of that means that we have got a problem in our business sector, and it\u2019s not surprising that 40 percent, or two out of five business owners have said that they have got mental illness, and a staggering one out of five have self-diagnosed that they\u2019ve been depressed at some point in time. That\u2019s not the country that we want. That\u2019s not the environment we want for our business owners, because they\u2019re the lifeblood force of our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002286c7f566f9704367b777739808356524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286c7f566f9704367b777739808356524\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Well, look, when we think about it, we\u2019ve got a big decision coming up this year and people are going to be out there shopping for policies, and I want to think about where they\u2019re going to shop. Because on this side of the House\u2014think of us like a supermarket\u2014we\u2019ve got \u201CLabour Mart\u201D, we\u2019ve got a good supermarket. The car park might not be full, but that\u2019s because a lot of people would\u2019ve walked there, would\u2019ve caught the bus, would\u2019ve caught the train.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen you\u2019ve got another supermarket. It\u2019s called the \u201CNational/ACT Mart\u201D\u2014the \u201CNACT Mart\u201D, the \u201CNick-knack Mart\u201D because they nick off the poor to give it to the rich. You know what that supermarket looks like? The car park\u2019s crammed\u2014crammed full of flash cars\u2014but you know what? There\u2019s no access ramp to get into it. If you go to Labour Mart, you get some good policies, good policies which are addressing the meaty issues. We put a \u201Csteak\u201D in the ground on what matters. But what do you get if you go to NACT Mart? They\u2019re off their trolley. Their policies are a basket case. They\u2019re whipped into a frenzy, like Mr Bayly was, but, you know, they\u2019ve got no answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EYou go to the fruit and vegetable section, and \u201Clettuce\u201D tell you what you see there. You see politicians who turn up, turn up to do the mahi, to attack the big problems. Go to the delicatessen at NACT Mart, what do you get? Cuts. Lots of fine delicatessen cuts: tax cuts, service cuts, cuts to nurses, cuts to teachers. You get a problem. You get an economy that would be in a tailspin as they give tax cuts to the rich in an inflationary manner, and yet here we are in a situation where we are today when we\u2019ve got to address the cost of living. Over in NACT Mart, you\u2019ve got some real problems. You\u2019ve got a \u201Ccereal\u201D failure in the breakfast aisle, I\u2019ll tell you that. Their policies, frankly, are dog tucker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, look, what we need to do is address the big issues that we\u2019ve got. In just a \u201CJif\u201D, you know, Mr Bayly over there needs to think about what he\u2019s saying about business confidence, because he\u2019s not \u201CHandy Andy\u201D when it comes to how business confidence really works. A Government needs to work on the economy as a whole, and the spending that we\u2019re doing in things like infrastructure, the huge amount we\u2019ve put into rail\u2014and I know we put a huge amount in disaster response into the Hawke\u2019s Bay, and you\u2019ll hear about that soon, because we can\u2019t hang people out to dry. That\u2019s not what this Government is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo use your noodle. Think about what we\u2019re going to do here. We\u2019ve really got to get into\u2014while you\u2019re scrambling around, we\u2019re going to crack the big issues with some \u201Cegg-cellent\u201D policies\u2014you\u2019ll be hearing those tomorrow\u2014and we\u2019ll keep doing the hard work here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo when you think about it, in terms of supermarkets, we\u2019ve got no beef with their profits, but a competitive market is a rare thing well done. So that\u2019s why we\u2019re addressing those supermarket issues, and, in my portfolio, I\u2019m very, very proud to do that, because what matters to New Zealanders is what happens at the checkout, and what have we got from them? Nothing. What we would see is falling wages. Every time we have put the minimum wage up\u2014I\u2019m very proud of our policy on minimum wage and living wage. What would we hear from them? Suppressed wages. What would suppressing wages do? It would flatten the economy. So it\u2019s all very nice to, say, give tax cuts to your mates, in service cuts to the public sector, but all that would happen would be a problem in the economy where the wealthy have lots to spend and there are people on the streets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe are putting funding into housing, police, schools, nursing, mental health. We\u2019re addressing those big, long-term issues. We\u2019ve made more progress on climate change than the National Government did in nine years. What did they do in nine years? Nothing. What policies do they have now? None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe only policies the National Party\u2019s got are the ones David Seymour gives them. Yeah, so think about that. I\u2019m yet to hear a National Party policy. David Seymour at least is upfront about his crazy policies. Good on him\u2014I give him credit for that. He wants to deregulate everything, but at least he\u2019s honest and has the decency to stand up and tell us what his policies are, whereas the National Party is going to be told by their new Minister of Finance, David Seymour\u2014should they ever get into Government\u2014what to do. And what are the chances of that? Very, very slim. October 14\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022baac53e6e3c6403ab11a40016fd256a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baac53e6e3c6403ab11a40016fd256a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00226f70165042934d30ad0f2e5dc419973e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f70165042934d30ad0f2e5dc419973e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Many times in this House, I have seen a hapless member fail to fill a 10-minute slot, but Duncan Webb couldn\u2019t fill five minutes, and I feel truly sorry for the people of Christchurch Central, who have to have him as a representative. But there are more serious matters than Duncan Webb to be discussed this week, because it\u2019s Budget week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn particular, this week, we have seen some really interesting political theatre. We\u2019ve seen Grant Robertson, the finance Minister, say he would cut spending by $4 billion, and people said, \u201CWow!\u201D\u2014except they forgot it\u2019s $4 billion over four years; it\u2019s only $1 billion a year. People forgot that Grant Robertson has increased Government spending by $49 billion a year. So his $1 billion a year saving is really 2 percent of all the extra spending that Grant Robertson does over and above his predecessor. What he\u2019s really saying is that he\u2019s going to keep going with 98 percent of the new spending he\u2019s introduced. In other words, there is no change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAlong comes the National Party, and they don\u2019t say how much they\u2019d reduce wasteful spending by, but they do say they will give you a letter to tell you how much wasteful spending has happened and how much tax you\u2019ve paid for it\u2014an idea that, ironically, ACT introduced in 1997, when people still relied on letters to get information, before the internet became commonplace, and even then the National Party vetoed it, stopping it from happening when it was more relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EACT, on the other hand, has produced an alternative budget\u2014A Time For Truth\u2014the only fully costed alternative budget that is produced in this Parliament year in, year out by ACT, showing New Zealanders the real choice for real change, not Tweedledee-Tweedledum; the same policies, different slogans; because New Zealand has had enough of that. This country is in a state of decline. We must choose on a spectrum between Australia and Fiji. Is New Zealand going to become a big Fiji\u2014a nice place to visit but without the First World healthcare and education and transport infrastructure and services that people expect? Well, that is the trajectory this country is on when we have two parties that don\u2019t give you a real choice. A Time For Truth is about telling the truth about where this country is up to and taking action to make it better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis alternative budget\u2014and people can download it from ACT\u2019s website and go through it\u2014reduces wasteful spending by $38 billion in four years, or around $8.5 billion a year. What that means is that we don\u2019t touch a single front-line service\u2014not one cop, one nurse, one teacher. Actually, we\u2019re going to pay the teachers $5,000 more each. Actually, we\u2019re going to bring defence spending up by 2 percent, to 2 percent of GDP. Actually, we are going to make 200 secure beds for youth offenders, so the police don\u2019t play tag-and-release and so that the worst, most-hardened youth criminals get the mental health support, the education, the physical safety, the nutrition, and the discipline and security that they\u2019ve never had in their life. We\u2019re not going to touch any services; we\u2019re actually going to boost Government services where they need to be, and we\u2019re going to do that by reducing Government waste by the billion that has grown up under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOnce we have boosted security to make the streets safe, defence to keep the South Pacific safe, and doctors fees so that you can actually get into your GP, and once we have shared half the GST with the local councils so that you can afford the infrastructure to build new homes\u2014once we\u2019ve solved those problems\u2014we still have room to reduce your taxes, so that someone on $70,000 a year would keep just about $50 a week extra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn fact, every single earner would be better off under ACT\u2019s alternative budget. Everybody would get a tax cut or a credit, meaning they would take home more money because the Government would be wasting less, and yet, in the areas where we really need it, we would spend more on a Government that needs to deliver the security, the healthcare, the education, and the infrastructure for Kiwis to live good lives. That is the difference. The ACT Party provides the real choice and tells the truth in our alternative budget. It is a time for truth. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00220684e7e879c34a7d95b40a243b41aefe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220684e7e879c34a7d95b40a243b41aefe\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Negative Chris Luxon constantly talks down New Zealand, negative Nicola constantly talks down New Zealand, negative National constantly talks down New Zealand, and now David Seymour delivers us a fanciful plan to cut taxes for the wealthiest New Zealanders but keep delivering all of the services we love\u2014just look away at the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not believable, because when we speak negatively about our country, we discount all of the hard work; that New Zealanders have been going through some of these toughest times. Because these are tough times, but I know that we can get through them by working together and by being pragmatic\u2014and tomorrow we\u2019ll see a pragmatic Budget which does the things that we need to do well and makes an impact on people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EYou know, I\u2019m backing Aotearoa, and I\u2019m backing the South Aucklanders who put me here. Negative Chris Luxon says that South Aucklanders are cooking up crimes in their South Auckland garages. He\u2019s calling my people \u201Cbeneficiaries\u201D and \u201Cbottom feeders\u201D. He could not tell me more clearly who he\u2019s for, which is the wealthiest New Zealanders who do not look like me, who do not live in my community, who do not get up every day to work hard to put food on the family dinner table, who don\u2019t go to work to serve their communities, who don\u2019t go to church on a Sunday to make their lives better, who don\u2019t send their kids to education because they want more. These are people who are working hard in our communities, and Labour is the Government that will be delivering for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI ask those people to watch what\u2019s being said today here, to watch the ACT Party deliver a speech today in this House where they don\u2019t talk about National and ACT\u2019s cuts that will benefit the wealthiest New Zealanders by thousands of dollars a year and, in some cases, would mean the CEO of Air New Zealand would get over $100,000 a year in tax cuts. The gumption of the leader of the ACT Party to say that everyone would be better off when minimum wage earners in my electorate will be a whole 39c better off per week. Shame. Approximately $20 better off per year, but they would lose those advances in their healthcare, their advances in their education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re at a really important moment in our history. My generation is at a precipice where the COVID-19 pandemic has pushed Governments around the world, and our Government too, to invest in transformational change in our healthcare systems. There is so much momentum at this moment right now, where the New Zealand Government has made a change that we have never seen in my lifetime: M\u0101ori healthcare is improving at a rate which it never has. We have a say in our healthcare system which will mean that the lives of M\u0101ori people will change, that people who have always been left out of a health system which has not addressed their needs will be able to get the care that they need on a daily basis, that primary health care is for the first time designed for them. It\u2019s so important that we continue that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s so important that we continue the work of this Government on our climate. And I don\u2019t mean big, high-level ideas about climate change around the world; I mean our local streams, our local ngahere. The way that New Zealanders experience our environment will change in my lifetime in a way that it hasn\u2019t for any other New Zealanders who have ever lived before. This is the time that the Government must invest in the way that we reduce emissions and that we live our lives so that we have stopbanks which stop the flooding in our towns\u2014people in Manurewa and in M\u0101ngere are still out of their houses since the Auckland floods. We must invest now to make sure that we are properly protected and that we have adapted to the climate change which is barrelling down at us faster than any other Government around the world has managed to take on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is our challenges of a generation now. We are making progress. Labour has always been the Government of progress for the people. We have the ideas which are needed now to address these huge challenges that the world is facing. We are the party of change for the better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EPeople have a choice now. People have a choice later this year about whether one of the most regressive\u2014regressive\u2014Governments is elected with a \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D that makes cuts to education, our health, our public services, core public spending, those police officers that we have on the ground now looking after our people; or a Government that has advanced more than any other Government before it with priorities around climate change, around looking after our people, around our people, around our local streams, our ngahere, and our health. That\u2019s the choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220b41c7aabc3048cdbbc90475ff8414b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b41c7aabc3048cdbbc90475ff8414b4\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E There are those of us who are focused on supporting each other, on backing each other, and helping each other. When the going gets tough, the tough keep it together and keep working together. Never have we seen that more than in Hawke\u2019s Bay over the past 12 weeks\u2014it\u2019s only been 12 weeks; it can feel like a year sometimes. But in 12 weeks, we have seen such an incredible amount of spirit, grit, and determination from our region to work together. It is times like this that we see the best in people, where people dig deep and support and work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EAnd yet, right now, all I have heard from that other side of this House for the last three-quarters of an hour are negative stories; negative pulling down of people over and over again. We\u2019ve heard negative National Party Nicola Willis go on and on and on about how terrible it is in New Zealand, dragging down\u2014dragging down\u2014the economy, where, back on this side of the House, in Government, we fight. We fight for the people of New Zealand, we fight for the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014we back the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay and we back this country to go forward and be proud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThe only thing that\u2019s going up in the National Party right now is the pension age. That\u2019s right, they want to raise the pension age\u2014pension age is going up from 65 to 67. That\u2019s what the National Party want to do\u2014not on this side of the House\u2014and so does the ACT Party. They want to make hard-working New Zealanders who pay their taxes for years and years and years\u2014when you get to 65, when you get to 66 under the National Party and the ACT Party, they\u2019re going to cut it from you. They\u2019re going to cut your super. You\u2019ve heard it here: the National Party\u2014the only thing they\u2019re going up on is the pension age. Everything else\u2014everything else\u2014they have no plan. They don\u2019t want to help New Zealand. They don\u2019t want to help Hawke\u2019s Bay either. I can tell you that the National Party has shown absolutely nothing that they would give to Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014not like this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s where we\u2019re delivering: in the last 12 weeks, this Government has provided $230 million to Hawke\u2019s Bay as part of our recovery response. That\u2019s $10.15 million to clean up the slash. That\u2019s $133 million to clean up debris and silt. That\u2019s $3.25 million for mental health. That\u2019s $31.2 million to help businesses in their immediate response and recovery. I can go on and on around the amount of investment and backing that this Government is supporting and helping Hawke\u2019s Bay with. We\u2019ve seen over $50 million going into our immediate response to getting roads open. We\u2019ve had Bailey bridges been built. And, yes, the thing I can commit to here, right now, is we will continue to back business, we will back our horticultural industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EWe are in this for a partnership\u2014a partnership with Hawke\u2019s Bay. That\u2019s what\u2019s wanted: where people work together. People need to work together, stand together, and be united. That\u2019s how we get through this. That\u2019s what you see on this side of the Government\u2014a Government who cares, and a Government that will continue to work and back the Bay, through and through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022b57c39c67fd7441faf1b143ba17aebed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b57c39c67fd7441faf1b143ba17aebed\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, there is only one more sleep until Budget 2023. It\u2019s going to be a comprehensive Budget; a forward-looking Budget. It\u2019s our plan that sets the stage for New Zealand\u2019s continued progress and prosperity. This Budget will be a testament to the dedication and vision of our Government, which has tirelessly worked to address the challenges facing our nation to create a brighter future for all. I know that Budget 2023 is going to be testament to the Government\u2019s commitment to building a resilient and inclusive society. It prioritises investments into skills, into science, and into infrastructure\u2014all of which are critical for driving economic growth and improving the wellbeing of our citizens. With a focus on sustainable practices and forward-thinking policies, this Budget sets us on a path towards a greener, fairer, and more prosperous future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, let us not forget the Opposition\u2014specifically the National Party. While they might present themselves as an alternative, their track record in similar circumstances raises questions about their ability to effectively govern and to address the needs of New Zealanders. The National Party struggles to present a cohesive vision for the future, and their policies often lack the innovative and progressive approaches needed to navigate the challenges of the modern world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a confession to make. I didn\u2019t write that speech; ChatGPT wrote that speech. Even ChatGPT knows the negativity and the fact that National is not fit to govern. All the negativity that we\u2019ve heard from the other side of this \u201Ccoalition of cuts\u201D has come through online. It\u2019s come through to the fact that even an AI generic robot knows that they don\u2019t have a vision for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI am so proud of the track record of our Government. I\u2019m so proud of the fundamental investment we\u2019ve done to make sure people, like myself, my generation, people from my background\u2014who are children of migrant families\u2014get the support to have a chance at thriving here in New Zealand. We stare down two very different futures for New Zealand at the coming election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWe know that there is one side of the House\u2014our Government\u2014making sure that we truly invest in every single New Zealander, and making sure that everyone who comes on to this land has equal opportunities to thrive in life. I\u2019m so proud of making sure that we have given investment into our mothers; into children, through our paid parental leave. I\u2019m so proud of making sure that we\u2019ve raised the wages of teachers, nurses, and all healthcare workers. I\u2019m so proud of the fact that our Government has prioritised those who are on the lowest wages to make sure that their work actually earns them a dignified living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EThere is huge contrast to be made with the other side of the House. Those on the other side, the National Party, have been talking about the people who live in South Auckland garages. Those are human beings. Those are people who have a dream and have multiple talents. When I was meeting with the decision makers of Auckland City a couple of weeks back, I was telling a member, \u201CDo you know who are the up-and-coming talent in our classical music world, our opera, our orchestras?\u201D Those are the South Auckland kids who were given a chance. They were taken by buses to come into Auckland City to listen to those classical music performances, to be truly believers that they can make something of their lives and to make something of their talents. Those are the people that our Government will continually support. We\u2019re not going to talk them down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EOne of the privileges of being able to visit some of the businesses around New Zealand is to see the young entrepreneurs. This Government backs them. We\u2019ve started more business loans. We\u2019ve started our Business Payment Practices Bill, to make sure that those who are actually growing our economy\u2014and not just the large businesses that negative Nicola is meeting with every day\u2014have their voices heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo there is one more sleep until Budget day. We all know that this is going to be a great, back to basics, bread and butter Budget to truly look after every single New Zealander, and I know I\u2019ll be proud of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002212c6212bb30a46209c6f392989c61c7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212c6212bb30a46209c6f392989c61c7e\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to rise in this general debate to talk about a topic that we have not heard much about today, have we ladies and gentlemen? That is the topic of increasing economic growth. For those on the other side of the House that require a translation of what those words mean\u2014because I do expect and understand that many on that side of the House would not have a clue what we mean when we say \u201Cincreasing economic growth\u201D\u2014I\u2019m going to give a little bit of a lesson around where we need to be focused as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EOne of the areas that you are not going to hear much from that side of the House on tomorrow is what actually drives this country; pays for our education and health services; and makes us\u2014and should make us\u2014the envy of the world in terms of a place to live, raise a family, retire, and that is around the elements that drive economic growth. Infrastructure investment drives economic growth. You hardly ever hear conversations around infrastructure from that side of the House unless we are dealing with the tidy up following a natural disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBefore the natural disasters that we saw this year, did you ever hear of any announcements from that side of the House around large-scale infrastructure investment programmes that they would undertake to increase economic growth, increase jobs, and increase productivity? The answer is no, because they do not understand the reality of what is required in this country to get us to turn around the situation which faces us right now and get us back on track and get us successful in this world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EOne of the issues around infrastructure investment is the need for certainty. The private sector requires certainty of pipeline, of what are those large infrastructure projects that the Government will partner with local government and the private sector to invest in over the next 10, 20, 30 years, and beyond. These infrastructure projects are critical in order to unlock the economic growth and potential within our regions, our provinces, and our cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ERight now, this country is stuck at the stoplights, at the traffic lights, stuck on a red light, and it\u2019s a red light from that side of the House that means this country is not going ahead. We need real leadership, leadership that understands the fundamentals\u2014that economic growth is our pathway in this country to drive us from where we are today to where we need to be in the future. It beggars belief that on this side of the House there is a complete understanding of that, yet on the other side of the House they simply do not understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ERecently we put out, at the beginning of this year, the National Party\u2019s policy around \u201Clocal water done well\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4344413893d41748db58a812b11b097\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t like that anymore!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204051eb75d194c1d9dfb0cedec453e04\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014our solution in regards to long-term infrastructure investment in water across this country. And you hear the member from Hawke\u2019s Bay, yapping on on the other side, because their plan will not deliver sustainable change for her communities, and her communities will tell her that on 14 October and it\u2019s lights out, time for a new MP in that region. Rightly so, because this Government has failed to take the action required to turn this ship around and we are now, under this Labour Government, destined for that ship becoming grounded, and grounded pretty swiftly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe need to unlock that economic potential through infrastructure growth. We need to get on and start building this country back. We need to start giving certainty to our private sector, to employ the workforce, to train apprentices, to get people out there and start building this country. That is the certainty that comes with long-term infrastructure investment. That is what\u2019s not happening from the other side of this House. That is what is going to change 154 days from now. I am looking forward\u2014under a Christopher Luxon - led National Government\u2014that we are going to turn this country around, get this country back on track, and that is critical for New Zealand success and I\u2019m looking forward to being part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022266381267ef7440d9994d6cf8b94248e\u0022\u003EForests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002204c4337443bf4403a4d51d25c1e4c9d2\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000281\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 11 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2020d17ea8543a3856a00e2a7074d70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2020d17ea8543a3856a00e2a7074d70\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the third and final reading of the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIt has been a pleasure to be part of the Primary Production Committee that had helped, in part, progress this bill through all stages in the House, now to be debated in its third and final reading. The bill as introduced would amend the Forests Act 1949, addressing the growing concerns around the international trade and the illegal harvest of timber and associated processed wood products, both here and from around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFor New Zealand, this bill means giving surety to those in New Zealand of both domestic and export products of timber, and an assurance scheme that New Zealand timber products are from legally harvested practices here in New Zealand; equally of the wood products, as we are a country that imports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe bill would create a new regulatory system that enables the forestry and wood processing sector to provide domestic consumers and export markets with greater assurance that those timber products are sourced by legal means. The bill provides for the role of registered advisers and assessors, which frames their legal responsibility and obligations when working alongside industry to certify and equally give certainty to harvesters and consumers over information requirements when selling processed products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe select committee listened to over 30 submissions\u2014some written and many were oral. The issues raised were canvassed and addressed in further second stage reading in the House and at the committee of the whole House stage. The premise of the bill was well articulated, that New Zealand needed to respond to the calls for further consumer confidence in this trade. We know we would be impacted should such a legal framework not be put in place, damaging our reputational brand. It was well acknowledged that illegal logging is a massive problem. By Interpol estimates, illegal harvesting and processing amounted to $150 billion globally, as was surmised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAs previously mentioned in my first speech, I attended, several times, in travel across the likes of South America and Latin America, and this is a profound problem found in cities like S\u00E3o Paulo, Rio, Belo Horizonte, Santiago, and others. The profound knock-on effects to traders is well canvassed and articulated in those countries, displacing indigenous people and destroying the country\u2019s natural flora and fauna in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ECountries around the world are embracing the need to address this significant and ongoing issue, with multiple jurisdictions seeking to legislate against the illegal timber trade. The World Bank estimates the global market loss of value from illegal cut forest products is over $10 billion per year, amounting to a sum total of nearly 30 percent of the global timber trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a substantial timber export market, but equally has a substantial import market\u2014an import market of nearly $2.4 billion in processed timber products was imported in the years 2021 through to 2022. Suffice it to say, bringing New Zealand in line with our major trading partners and other trading nations for the protections and assurances needed over timber products is imperative to give surety to New Zealand\u2019s forestry industry, which contributes some total of $6.7 billion annually to our economy and employs near on 35,000 people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ERecently, the new Minister presiding over this bill ushered in Supplementary Order Paper 349 that addressed many of the concerns laid out by previous speakers and submitters in the submission process at select committee. I was gratified to hear, when I pressed the Minister on the potential of access issues culminated with ownership structures and existing agreements between harvesters and landowners, it was addressed, ameliorating my concerns and I am sure many of those raised by submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWhilst the ACT Party acknowledges some individuals in the submission process raised concerns that were partially addressed\u2014the likes of the credibility of weights and measures, definitions of legal harvest, and previously mentioned access issues\u2014on balance, we feel that these issues have largely been addressed through the latter stages of the bill as it progressed through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIn such, it\u2019s imperative that New Zealand continues to play a role\u2014a very important role\u2014as an international player at addressing this very salient issue, giving clarity to timber production, exports, and imports. ACT will support this bill at its third and final stage through this Parliament, and we look forward to seeing the certainty it brings to our wood and processing industries, both here domestically and abroad. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00228cf83970616740c6ac784a6976a99fd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cf83970616740c6ac784a6976a99fd7\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a short call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill. The scale of illegal logging internationally is enormous. It\u2019s doing immense damage to forests, to plants, to wildlife, to indigenous communities who depend on and live in those forests, to rivers, to streams, to wetlands, and to the climate by destroying the planet\u2019s lungs and the web of life which sustains us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn 2021, just 9 percent of the world\u2019s natural forests remained intact. So we need to be much more ambitious in protecting what remains from the scourge of deforestation, illegal logging, and other activities like illegal mining and the ecological collapse that goes with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also because the proceeds of illegal logging support criminal activity, political corruption, and they strip indigenous communities of both their livelihoods and their rights. As Mark Cameron noted, the scale of the international trade is billions of dollars annually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill is well-intentioned, but it\u2019s inadequate, given the scale of the crisis and the scale of action that\u2019s needed. Where you have illegal logging, like illegal mining, short-term profits tend to trump everything else and you see some of the worst aspects of human behaviour and human exploitation of nature and a total failure to recognise the fragility of the web of life and our dependence on nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is supporting this bill because it does improve on the status quo, but it could be so much better. It would have been much better if it had tackled the other commodities which lead to illegal logging and deforestation; not just wood and timber products but things like cocoa, palm kernel expeller (PKE), chocolate, palm kernel, palm oil\u2014all of these products which also lead to illegal logging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill certainly does provide a legal harvest assurance system for the forestry and the wood processing sector. It helps safeguard exports from Aotearoa New Zealand, enables market access, and protects our reputation as a safe trading partner. But that is just for imported timber and wood products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt does take steps to improve the integrity of the supply chain, but this bill was promised 18 years ago by former forest Minister the Hon Pete Hodgson. The Green Party is disappointed that the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) did not use the intervening 18 years to have a system that is more like the European Union\u2014with recent regulations there, which cover a much wider variety of forest products\u2014and that we are stuck with something that just deals with timber and wood products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EGiven that Aotearoa New Zealand is the world\u2019s largest importer of palm kernel expeller\u2014around 2 million tonnes annually to feed dairy cows and agricultural intensification\u2014if this bill had dealt with palm oil and PKE, we would be contributing significantly to avoiding deforestation and protecting the original forest cover, which is burnt and logged in order to establish palm oil plantations, and the breach of the human rights of the indigenous communities that that involves. If this bill had been more ambitious, it would really help protect that habitats of orang-utans, tigers, and elephants, and it would really help to reduce climate pollution and protect the lungs of the world in the forests of the Amazon and South-east Asia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really disappointing that the EU\u2019s efforts since 2013 did not inspire MPI to provide much more ambitious advice and legislation. So there\u2019s a shortcoming with the limited range of commodities\u2014only wood and timber\u2014that it applies to. It\u2019s also got a very narrow definition of what is legal, which relies on the concept of \u201Clegal harvest\u201D and requires logging companies to comply with the national laws. That\u2019s problematic, because in countries like Brazil and Indonesia, we\u2019ve had significant deforestation which has been seen to be legal, in terms of the national laws of those countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs Greenpeace Aotearoa noted in their submission, the Indonesian Government scheme for wood and logging \u201Cignores international laws and agreements such as CITES [and the] International Labour Organization and [it] does not deal\u201D\u2014really fundamentally\u2014\u201Cwith the illegal trade of wood and wood products.\u201D The Indonesian Government has undertaken very few prosecutions against businesses operating illegally in the forest estate, even when well-resourced organisations, like Greenpeace International, are reporting those breaches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAlso, the wood that complies with the Indonesian Government\u2019s regime is OK to be imported into New Zealand. So that very narrow definition of \u201Clegal harvest\u201D, which relies on national laws, is too limited. We would have preferred to have seen a much more comprehensive standard where legality included a requirement that the rights of indigenous peoples were honoured and that their consent and the consent of local communities was obtained before any logging occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also no full traceability for wood and timber products, because the bill focuses on \u201Clegal harvest\u201D and doesn\u2019t really recognise that the timber supply chain often involves the mixing of illegally logged wood with legally harvested wood. It relies quite heavily on international schemes such as the Forest Stewardship Council, which doesn\u2019t require full traceability of products in the timber supply chain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo as Grant Rosoman from Greenpeace says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe bill will have a very limited impact\u201D because of its narrow scope and these shortcomings and because 80 to 90 percent of the imported timber trade in New Zealand is already providing evidence of legality and sustainability through the requirements of the international tropical timber group. So there\u2019s some added value, because it refers to \u201Cspecified timber products\u201D, which potentially includes things like paper and tissue, but it\u2019s not clear in the bill what those specified timber products are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe need stronger, more ambitious legislation. We need more Green MPs, because the Green Party hasn\u2019t got the numbers to have a permanent member on the Primary Production Committee. This legislation could have been more ambitious and really tackled the issue of forest deforestation by focusing not just on wood and timber but also the range of other products like palm kernel expeller and palm oil. So the Green Party is supporting it, but it is an opportunity lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1d9cab091304693a156cb57e436ad58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1d9cab091304693a156cb57e436ad58\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise as a member of the Primary Production Committee in the third reading debate on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s been a lot of work that the Primary Production Committee has been doing on forestry, as has the Government, and this particular bill is about making sure that we establish a legal harvest system, which would require log traders, primary processors, importers, and exporters to be registered and do due diligence on the timber they are dealing with to ensure it is not being illegally harvested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I can say, having sat through the select committee process and as part of the select committee, is that there has been a lot of collegial support, including industry, to work in partnership and work together on ensuring that we do have a legal harvest protection mechanism in New Zealand. Now, this is something that the industry has been focusing on for over a decade, and it\u2019s also something that\u2019s in line with many other export trading partners, so it gives me pleasure to stand and take a call and to see this bill go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also probably worth a mention, when we talk about forestry, that we\u2019ve just completed our forestry slash inquiry report into what was happening in Wairoa and Tair\u0101whiti. Through that, the Minister of Forestry\u2014as we go through and look at how we are harvesting our forestry\u2014has also just announced $10.5 million in Budget 2023 to provide to local government to support the clean-up of slash and debris in Hawke\u2019s Bay and Tair\u0101whiti and implement short-term, medium-term solutions around how we do that, and also looking at $25.2 million for the next four years to protect 21,000 hectares of hill-country farmland across Aotearoa and New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ESo, on top of the bill that we\u2019re putting through today, there is much more work to do in the forestry space. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022efc1c398c7424ed8874b49746cf91f56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efc1c398c7424ed8874b49746cf91f56\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute call\u2014Nicola Grigg.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee7b0573d36a4abeb7b5d3e9733e39e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee7b0573d36a4abeb7b5d3e9733e39e0\u0022\u003ENICOLA GRIGG (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I can assure you, Mr Speaker, it\u2019ll likely be two minutes, but I\u2019ll give it my very best shot. Like my colleagues across the House, I too rise in support of the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill at its third reading. And like the previous speaker, Anna Lorck, I also sit on the Primary Production Committee and have had the privilege of seeing this pass on through the various stages, and now, hopefully, into law today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI think, as has been broadly canvased across all sides of the House, illegal trade of wood products and timber around the world is a grave concern, and I think that anyone in this House, where possible and where we can, will do what we can to mitigate illegal activity and illegal trade and, of course, the impact that that has on various communities and societies and, of course, ecologies around the world. Illegal harvesting\u2014as the member for the Green Party pointed out\u2014is an enormous problem globally, and I think is continuing to grow. But on saying that, the select committee saw no evidence that illegal harvest was occurring here in New Zealand. So this is the kind of bill\u2014it\u2019s a belts and braces bill\u2014that will at least start to implement some form of framework to start to measure. And, as we say, if you don\u2019t measure, you can\u2019t fix. So this is why we have chosen to support it through all stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is a very real problem and, as has been rightly pointed out, the vast majority of these problems are occurring in the likes of the Amazon basin. We do see issues with deforestation over there that is severely impacting native wildlife, flora, fauna, and, of course, indigenous communities. We will do what we can to support prevention of illegal harvesting of these sorts of timbers, especially through trade mechanisms where we can. So we do encourage strengthening of our international trading reputation and relationships, with particular regard to market access, and we do think that this bill will achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons that we think it is an imperative to take this stance today is to protect our own industry as much as anything from illegal trade, and particularly safeguarding the New Zealand reputation as well. So we have put various mechanisms in place to ensure that. And of those 21-odd submissions that we did hear through select committee, I think the seven key themes that emerged from all of those submissions were\u2014the majority of the concern was around complexity and cost of compliance\u2014the breadth of the regulatory powers that have been installed under this bill, the scope of the legal harvest system, looking at sustainability, rights of indigenous peoples, products, and the partial exclusion of indigenous timbers, and, of course, enforcement and compliance. And I think what\u2019s key to this is the log trader registration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo, ultimately, it has passed through select committee with some amendments, some of which were quite necessary. And that is why we in the National Party will stand up here today and support it. We do want to ensure that we as a collective pass legislation that will promote good New Zealand trade practices and remove the impact caused by any illegal and illicit trading. And that is why we\u2019re happy to support this bill in the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022581a57e4db134020b1672952ec807ae3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022581a57e4db134020b1672952ec807ae3\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Forestry and wood products will play an increasingly important role in the New Zealand economy, across our varied and many communities, especially rural and provincial communities\u2014this is the growing, the harvesting, the processing, and the trading, of course, of lumber and logs\u2014so maintaining or enhancing the fragile social licence to operate is vital. This Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill provides this in the domestic and international trade space both to importers and exporters, so those who are buying timber through stores or who are exporting it know that the timber they are buying is legitimate, is from sustainable sources, and can be trusted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe know that our global reputation as a country of integrity is vitally important. If we don\u2019t get this right and work to meet, if not exceed, the expectations of global markets and international consumers, then we run the risk of becoming just another small economy at the bottom of the world, importing and trading in exporting commodities, and we don\u2019t want that. This bill addresses international concerns around integrity of imports and exports, and that\u2019s the reason why a number of other jurisdictions are also implementing similar regimes. It\u2019s not to say that our current system or forest owners or importers and exporters lack integrity at all\u2014far from it\u2014but this just ensures we are meeting global best-practice codes of compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a lot of work across the forest and timber industry to make sure we get this right and workable to ensure that the benefits far outweigh the costs. In fact, it\u2019s my experience that anything that increases compliance and the integrity of a process and that weeds out cowboys is actually welcomed by the industry, because, as mentioned, it brings a level of integrity that is vitally important to the successful operation of our trade practices and our forestry business up and down this country. It\u2019s the reason why we\u2019ve supported this bill, it\u2019s the reason why it\u2019s important for our forestry sector, it\u2019s the reason why it\u2019s important for our international trading sector, and it\u2019s the reason why it is supported by the vast majority in the industry and right across this House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022 data-id=\u0022f417f96566584bd682f91407e6bd0131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f417f96566584bd682f91407e6bd0131\u0022\u003ESORAYA PEKE-MASON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s good to take a call on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill, third reading. When I spoke on this bill during the second reading, I reflected on the 400,000 hectares of indigenous forest and some 238,000 hectares on M\u0101ori land. These lands contribute significantly to M\u0101ori socio-economic development. When I hear the word \u201Cforestry\u201D, I think of my wh\u0101nau. I think of my wh\u0101nau, because this sector provides bread and butter\u2014yes, bread and butter\u2014for some of my wh\u0101nau to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EIn the 1960s, thousands of hectares of what was left of inaccessible, undeveloped M\u0101ori land were put into forestry leases, encouraged by Government at the time. I want to talk about one of those lands: Ng\u0101poro Waimarino Forest Trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EBut before I do, I want to acknowledge, last Thursday, the passing of one of my whanaunga Robert Cribb, known back home as \u201CBoy\u201D, a humble, caring, soft, persistent man and leader committed to M\u0101ori land development from K\u0101hui Maunga ki Tangaroa, Te Awa Tupua o Whanganui [the Assembly of Mountains to the sea, the mystical river of Whanganui]. He dedicated his life to achieving the aspirations of his wh\u0101nau, his marae, his hap\u016B, and his iwi, and that was in land development through forestry and environmental conservation. This was always for the greater good of not just M\u0101ori but for the wider community that he lived in. E moe, e moe mai r\u0101 t\u014Dku kaihana. [Sleep, rest in peace, my cousin.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EThis trust has 43 M\u0101ori land blocks located next to the Whanganui River. You can imagine, back in the 1960s, my kaum\u0101tua and kuia hearing about \u201COh, you better do something about your land, because this is what might happen or what might not happen.\u201D But, nevertheless, they got themselves together and they entered into lease arrangements. Half of the lands in this block, this trust, are in pine, and the remainder is in beautiful, plush, untouched, natural ngahere. I remember the stories of a time\u2014actually, not too long ago\u2014where blocks were stripped of their natural native trees, logs helicoptered out, tree poaching, illegal forest harvesting activities, and persistent contractors seeking harvesting permits to take our trees, to take our taonga, without permission. As the Minister said, illegal harvested timber has been debated in this House for over 10 years, and it seems even more. It is good to see this progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003EA newcomer to the Primary Production Committee, I acknowledge the culmination of a lot of the hard work that\u2019s gone on, the former chair Jo Luxton and the committee at the time, and the committee now led by Steph Lewis, and also the Ministers involved over those times and years. I am grateful to them all for the hard work, for the diligence, and to see this bill commended to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00224f1212eec0fd426e8f8f5f21354e584e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f1212eec0fd426e8f8f5f21354e584e\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill at its third reading, and it\u2019s one that the National Party supports passing into law. the illegal harvesting of timber is a significant problem globally, contributing to deforestation and ecosystem degradation, with wide-reaching environmental, economic, and social impacts on affected communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe question is: how does this relate to New Zealand? Well, forestry is New Zealand\u2019s third-largest exporter. Its value at the year ending June 2021 was $6.3 billion; it\u2019s anticipated that will be $6.7 billion by the year ending June 2023\u2014this year. It employs around 35,000 people, and it\u2019s a critical part of our economy. At a time when we have a balance of payments deficit that is the greatest in the developed world, it\u2019s more important than ever that we are selling goods and services and products to the world and earning that foreign exchange. Forestry is a very, very important part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo this bill is something we support as improving global confidence in the logs and the wood coming from New Zealand\u2014having confidence in the integrity of the supply chain and the operators when the system is critical for both domestic processing and New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a timber exporter to the world, and that important part it plays as the third-largest export earner for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EWe also have a rising volume and diversity of imports into New Zealand, which increases the risk of New Zealand being seen as a conduit for the illegal timber trade due to a lack of mandatory assurance measures, something that this bill seeks to address and something that we support. And I should note that, globally, the world deforests around 10 million hectares of forest each and every year\u201410 million hectares; that\u2019s an area the size of Portugal. Around half of that deforestation is offset by regrowing forests. So, overall, the world loses around 5 million hectares of forest each and every single year. In fact, 95 percent of that deforestation occurs in the tropics, something that New Zealand wants to make very clear that we want to have no part of and that our industry is not part of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo while New Zealand has had voluntary measures in place since the early 2000s and there have been proactive initiatives by importers, the coverage has not been complete. New Zealand has historically relied on its reputation of being a low-risk producer of illegal timber products to ensure we have the market access to sell our timber into globally. However, more recently, New Zealand exporters have been required to demonstrate the legality of their timber products in a growing number of export markets. This bill, which shortly will become law, is something that can assure those markets globally that New Zealand is taking this seriously and does have an assurance programme in place to make sure that we are not exporting illegal timber to the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo I would just make the point, also, that the plantation forest area in New Zealand peaked in 2003 at 1.83 million hectares. It declined for the next 16 years, at just under 1.69 million hectares. Over the past two years, the area has increased by 43,000 hectares to 1.7 million hectares, and it would take roughly another two years of forestation at current rates for the estate to recover to the area of the early 2000s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EBut as my colleague across the House Soraya Peke-Mason said, forestry is also very important for the M\u0101ori economy and M\u0101ori communities, providing both employment opportunities for rangatahi and to provide economic opportunities in our regions. So this is a very important\u2014very important\u2014industry for New Zealand, for M\u0101ori, for all New Zealanders. So this is a bill that we do support, and we\u2019ll be pleased to see it shortly passed into law. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u00228be2192dd1274aed8a0e1b6f7fe54bfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228be2192dd1274aed8a0e1b6f7fe54bfb\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Ni sa bula vinaka, Mr Speaker. As always, it\u2019s an honour and a privilege to take a call in this House of change, as the member of Parliament for the \u014Ctaki electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EWhile I wasn\u2019t on the select committee who heard the submissions and worked on this bill, I do want to thank the Primary Production Committee for their mahi on the Forests (Legal Harvest Assurance) Amendment Bill as we come to the third reading today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EOur Government has been working and focused on addressing the issue of illegally logged wood for over a decade now. Under this bill, Aotearoa New Zealand is committed to trading only in legally harvested timber. This bill will establish a legal harvest system that will require the log traders, the importers, and the exporters to register and to ensure the timber that they are dealing with is legally harvested only. This bill brings us into line with other trading partners in other countries\u2014for example, Australia, the US, Indonesia, the Republic of Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EWhen countries around the world trade with us here in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014particularly in the timber industry\u2014they will know that they are trading with a country that is doing the right thing, that is ethically right in the way that we harvest and trade in terms of our legal timber. Like the member Stuart Nash talked about earlier, that is really important for the way people perceive us overseas and for our import and export business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo just a short call today. This is a great piece of legislation and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221999fe56daed4177b6c17acd752d5f4c\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2ba39a79974433bad49b4a26ccc0ec7\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002281dcb5b315fa424fb8d49bab9d6c8fec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281dcb5b315fa424fb8d49bab9d6c8fec\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfdaa059f9ee4a0c923c8db81a6e6d6e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d370c328374108b2d5d24f18b65351\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMr Speaker and colleagues, I am very pleased to be able to return to the House for the second reading of the bill, after the Education and Workforce Committee has completed its consideration and returned its report to the House. I wish to start by thanking the select committee for their hard work on this bill; thanking the, I think it was, 21 submitters who took the time to give their views and assist us in improving this piece of legislation; and also to thank the officials who supported the select committee with their consideration of the legislation. That is certainly valued. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased, also, to be able to return for the next stage of this bill because it is another Labour Party manifesto commitment that we are fulfilling with the passage of this piece of legislation. It\u2019s very important for me, as Minister in the workplace relations and safety portfolio, as it is in other portfolios, that we follow through on those things that we said we would do when elected. This was one of those specific things that we identified in our manifesto and received a clear vote of support at the election and an endorsement to move through with this policy. So it\u2019s good to be able to move forward and follow through on that commitment. And it is an important one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think any member of this House would feel satisfied with the level of harm that continues to occur in New Zealand workplaces, from the North to the South, the East, and the West. Overall levels of harm in New Zealand workplaces, be it acute injuries and fatalities, lesser levels of injury that none the less have significant impacts on individuals and significant impacts on productivity, or, in fact, the biggest area of them all\u2014workplace-based health and poor health outcomes that flow from people\u2019s working conditions\u2014we would all want our country to do better and cannot feel good about the fact that, generally, we cause higher rates of harm in our workplaces than nearly any other developed country that we compare ourselves to. Rates of harm, across fatalities and serious injuries, are around about twice the rate of Australia and around about four times the rate of the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ENow, we have made some good progress. The Pike River tragedy was a wake-up call for our system. There was a widespread view that things needed to change. It led to the Health and Safety at Work Act, greater clarity about obligations within the system, a new regulator, and a new and strong focus, supported by a strong strategy that WorkSafe oversees. And we shouldn\u2019t lose sight of the fact that we have made progress. We met the key targets around reducing fatalities and serious injuries, but they\u2019re still too high, and we need to keep doing more work and keep moving forward if we want to shift them down. This bill speaks to the fact that we know\u2014we know, without a shadow of a doubt, based on the experience of workers and businesses and based on the clear international academic research\u2014that having an empowered workforce, with workers directly able to represent through their concerns and issues, to engage in problem-solving around health and safety, and sometimes to say, \u201CNo, that is not safe\u201D, to receive appropriate training and support in that role, that having worker representatives in those roles makes a very significant difference to health and safety outcomes within our workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, we do have a system, under the existing Health and Safety at Work Act, that allows many workers to be able to have a representative in their workplace who has those rights, duties, and abilities under the Act, who is able to access education, and who has that formal role within the system. But, at the time that the legislation made its way through the House in 2015, the then National Government, which had originally proposed that as a universal right for workers\u2014to have a representative\u2014made a change during the legislative process to, effectively, carve out smaller workplaces of less than 20. It is true that, within the existing legislation, workers in smaller workplaces which are deemed to be high risk can continue to have the right to have a health and safety representative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat are the problems with that that we\u2019re trying to solve with this piece of legislation? Well, the primary one is that the size of the workplace does not mean that there is necessarily less risk to the workers who are there. It can equally be the case in a workplace of 80 people as it is in a workplace of 25 people that there are risks that might apply to those workers. And, on an evidential basis, we know that having a representative in place who is suitably educated and supported can help to reduce those risks and the possibility that those risks might play out in harm to their fellow workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere is also quite an important moral component, in my view, here as well. The people who bear the burden of harm in our workplaces are workers. They are the ones who get hurt, who become sick, who are injured, and who are killed. They are the ones who bear the burden of the harm, and so it is only important\u2014in my view, just and reasonable\u2014that they have a seat at the table in a formal sense to be able to represent concerns, to resolve issues, and to make our workplaces safer. So, effectively, this piece of legislation removes that carve-out that came midstream in the previous legislative process and ensures that workers in these smaller workplaces do have that ability to be able to request a health and safety representative or a health and safety committee, in the same way as workers in larger businesses do as well. That is the case for why we think it is important for this legislation to move through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAt the same time, I don\u2019t overstate the impact of this piece of legislation. It is a modest but useful contribution to the health and safety landscape. It won\u2019t fix everything on its own, by any stretch, but that fundamental right of workers to be able to have a rep, we think, is an important one. But, in noting that it is not a huge change, I do want to turn to some of the opposition and some of the arguments that we have heard against this, which I think, frankly, have just sort of overblown the potential impact of this change on workplaces up and down the country. The first thing to be clear about is that it doesn\u2019t actually make it compulsory that every workplace have a health and safety representative or a health and safety committee; it simply means that workers in those workplaces of fewer than 20 employees have the legal right to request a health and safety representative and committee, and that the employer then has a legal duty to respond to that and facilitate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo what is my expectation here? It is that some of our smaller workplaces\u2014workers there\u2014will see the value in having a health and safety representative or a health and safety committee, and they will make that request, and the employers will need to respond to it and support it. But, actually, it\u2019s my expectation that, quite probably, in many of our smaller workplaces, workers may not see that need. They may be satisfied to work within existing, less formal ways of raising issues, and that\u2019s just fine if that works for them. But in those workplaces where those workers are the ones on the front line who face the risk, who are most exposed to and, therefore, most aware of the risks and what can be done, where in their judgment they would be safer and feel safer for having a health and safety representative or committee, I think it is quite appropriate that they have the ability to request that and for that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn the Australian experience, where there is no such exemption below 20\u2014remembering that we based our Health and Safety at Work Act on the Australian model, law, and regulations\u2014it has been a mix. Some smaller businesses have ended up with reps and committees, and some haven\u2019t. So I think that is where we will land as well. I just put that on record, just so that we have a proportionate debate in this House. As I say, I think this is a useful change, but I think that some of the criticisms that this will be a significant burden across the economy simply aren\u2019t borne out by the evidence and simply aren\u2019t borne out by a reasonable set of assumptions about how this legislation will move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI note that the select committee has made one change to the legislation that it received, and that was a change to some of the language, changing the language around workers having the ability to \u201Cmay notify\u201D an employer of their desire to have a rep or a committee\u2014changing that to \u201Cmay request\u201D, which is then linked to the legal duty of the employer to respond to that request. The reason the select committee made that change is that it made the language more consistent with language in the rest of the Health and Safety at Work Act and, therefore, meant that there is a greater simplicity for people being able to engage with the legislation. And the advice that the committee received was that, if there was a different form of language, it might imply that Parliament meant something different by way of how that process should operate, which is not the intention. So I think the select committee has done a good job there of scrutinising the legislation and making sure that it\u2019s as easy and efficacious to utilise for all concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn concluding, health and safety is enormously important. Every Kiwi deserves to go home safe. Having a WorkSafe rep makes Kiwis safer, and this legislation will make sure that more workers have access to that. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00225862c9ace6c44252b8a99a2551083055\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225862c9ace6c44252b8a99a2551083055\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on the second reading of the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. I note the speech by the Minister around this legislation and what it fundamentally does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAbout 10 years ago, or coming up to 10 years ago, a National Government brought in the health and safety legislation to try to improve the workplaces of New Zealand, the safety rates, following the Pike River disaster. And everybody in this Parliament\u2014and, I\u2019m sure, New Zealanders\u2014agree with the basic premise that we should do what we can to ensure that people return home from work safe to their families, to their loved ones, so that they can continue to enjoy life as a New Zealand citizen and do well. And so there\u2019s been enormous resources put in by Governments but also by businesses up and down the country to try and improve our safety record. There was a significant improvement in the first few years. That level of improvement has tailed off in recent years, notwithstanding continued large further investment. And that is a real challenge that we face as a country and one that we want to see improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe original legislation when it came to health and safety committees and representatives within workplaces put a cap on 20 employees for larger businesses. Yes, that all makes sense and it works, but we spared small businesses from having to have these arrangements, because we were concerned about the costs imposed on what are small businesses and the pressure that they are under. This bill removes that and says that even if you\u2019re a tiny business with only five part-time employees, you may be required to have a committee and have a health and safety rep. They need to go off and do training for a day or two, and that\u2019s just what has to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe in the National Party don\u2019t agree with this amendment. We think the original arrangement limiting it to businesses with more than 20 employees was appropriate. I heard the Minister say he had the moral case for this, and the moral case was that it is the workers that bear the burden of harm. And, yes, that is something we should be absolutely focused on in order to keep New Zealand workers safe. But one thing he sort of neglected to mention was that it\u2019s not just workers that bear the burden of harm when it comes to trying to operate a small business successfully. We in Parliament go up and down the country meeting small-business owners, many of whom, as all the surveys will demonstrate, have very high levels of anxiety and depression. And there is a sense of hopelessness on the part of many small-business operators in this country who feel overwhelmed and overburdened with the pressures that they face not just from a from a trading perspective\u2014that is part and parcel of trying to run a small business; you have to compete to survive\u2014but they are also overwhelmed by the level of costs and regulations being imposed on them that they are not able necessarily to cope with or pass on to customers, and so the pressure is on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIf you go to Retail NZ, if you go to the small-business agencies, you will see the real burden that falls upon them, as well\u2014notwithstanding, of course, the law and order concerns if you\u2019re a small retailer worried about ram raids or many other law and order type issues, which is a separate\u2014well, it\u2019s not unrelated when it comes to health and safety. For many of the small businesses I mentioned, particularly small retail operators, little dairies, the number one health and safety issue they face is crime and people attacking them. So a Government that\u2019s really focused on them will be focused on actually restoring law and order in this country and doing that effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOur concern more generally is to ask how we ensure that we continue to improve our health and safety outcomes as a country but also be mindful of the practicalities of those small-business operators who over the last few years under this Government have faced one thing after the other in terms of additional costs. We\u2019ve seen very, very significant increases in the minimum wage, above the rate of inflation. And everybody wants to have higher incomes. Absolutely. But if the Government\u2019s response is just to legislate for higher incomes and just assume that small businesses can afford to pay it, or their customers can afford to pay it, well, that\u2019s fine, but most practical people will recognise that it\u2019s only a more productive business that can sustainably pay higher incomes. That\u2019s what you need. If you want to have higher incomes, you need a sustainably more productive and competitive business. Otherwise, higher incomes, in the absence of that, will inevitably lead either to higher prices or to that business struggling to survive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd so they\u2019ve had all those increases. They\u2019ve also had a doubling of the sick leave entitlement. And, again, if you talk to most small-business operators, the amazing thing about the sick leave entitlements is they\u2019re not pro rata-ed in the sense that if you have a person who works one day a week, they were entitled to five days\u2019 sick leave; now they are entitled to 10 days\u2019 sick leave. And so if you\u2019re working one day a week, then all, of a sudden, 20 percent of your days could be sick leave days. And you\u2019ll hear many small-business operators saying that the workforce does tend to fall into two camps: those who very rarely take sick leave and those who take the full entitlement. If you double the entitlement, then that has an impact. Then you\u2019ve had an extra public holiday. Then you\u2019ve had the imposition of fair pay agreements that are coming down the line, which will lead to a whole lot more additional costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s this one here, this bill, where a small operator with a handful of employees may have the obligation of sending one of them off for two days of health and safety. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment estimated it might cost $1,355 to provide the two days of training that\u2019s required. Of course, they have to be put up somewhere else and there\u2019s travel associated with it. And then there\u2019s the small problem of: well, who actually does the job while they are away for two days? So you need an extra person coming in. So it all might add up to $2,000 or $3,000 that a small business has to find. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, Minister Wood, sitting here in Wellington, says, \u201CWell, that\u2019s no big deal, nothing to worry about; everything will be fine.\u201D But if you\u2019re on the edge, a small trader who\u2019s under pressure, it all adds up. And as the Minister said, yes, the end of the world is not going to arrive because of this bill. This is not a major piece of legislation that\u2019s going to be the end of the world for small businesses. It\u2019s just another\u2014another\u2014thing that they need to concerned about; just another thing that that comes on top of all the other things that have come down the line. And so our overall perspective is that this is another burden that they don\u2019t need at this time. And the idea is that a small business with a small group of people who sit down around the table at morning tea together over their sausage rolls and their cup of tea can sort out these issues informally and be very focused on a health and safety culture, because the obligations of an employer in terms of providing a safe employment operation don\u2019t change if you\u2019re a small business or a big business; the obligations still lie on the owners of those businesses. And so that is how we think it should be carried out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House stand very much for a culture of improving our health and safety in this country. We believe the existing legislation with regard to health and safety representatives and health and safety committees is appropriate\u2014that is to say that larger businesses with more than 20 employees should have them, and those smaller businesses should be able to deal with these things as they have over the last few years. And with that, I\u2019ll leave my comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022645e7c37c76f4428b9188f6bc97ab25e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022645e7c37c76f4428b9188f6bc97ab25e\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is good to be standing here and taking a call on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. The reason it is good is because looking after workers means we look after businesses. Looking after workers means we look after the economy. When we talk about sustainability, it is as much about the people in our economy as any other input. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI just want to reflect for a moment on some of the submissions and valid concerns that were raised in the select committee. One of them was from Business New Zealand, who suggested that smaller persons conducting a business or undertaking would know their workers and would know each other and that informal supervision would be effective. Well, if that is the case, and a firm already has great health and safety systems and great relationships with their workers, the workers may not need or feel the need to go down this road. But it is their option\u2014their right\u2014that we are giving to the 500,000 workers who work in these smaller enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThey were concerned that the existence of official appointees sends a signal that health and safety is that person\u2019s responsibility and not that of every worker. It\u2019s not true; it\u2019s the opposite. In having workers who are well-trained, they take up the responsibility to look after each other and they will improve things in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe keep hearing about the cost of workers. Actually, workers are an investment, and we know that when we invest in these workers and their education, health and safety improves, productivity improves, and staff turnover reduces. Sometimes the most costly investment that a small business makes is in its team and its workers, and this investment is impactful. It is really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EWe heard about the cost of sending them off for two days\u2019 training. Well, I think, now, that\u2019s a great thing\u2014a grand incentive to have that on your CV. Imagine valuing a worker who\u2019s got really good skills when it comes to health and safety, and working collegially with their workmates to make their workplace safer and thus more productive\u2014imagine valuing that. \u201CI\u2019ve got this on my CV, employ me.\u201D\u2014what a wonderful conversation to be having. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis is about enabling workplaces to be great; this isn\u2019t about clamping down. This is a great piece of legislation, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfcc7129f4e2468787f026b50bf35983\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfcc7129f4e2468787f026b50bf35983\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m happy to take a call on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just pick up on a couple of the comments made by the last speaker, Angela Roberts. Firstly, her point that we keep hearing about costs, the point I would make to that speaker is, yes, and you continually don\u2019t listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to give the House a case of a small-business owner who I had a conversation with about this bill, who was echoing many of the sentiments of the submitters who came to speak on the bill, because she was saying to me, \u201CErica, my business is barely viable because of all of the increased costs.\u201D And some of the costs are those that the previous speaker from the National Party side spoke of, about the increase in extra leave\u2014sick leave, public holidays\u2014wage increases, general cost increases. She said, \u201CMy business is squeezed.\u201D I said to her, \u201CWell, here\u2019s something that\u2019s coming down the pipeline in this bill.\u201D When I explained it to her, she just threw her hands up and said, \u201CWhen will the assault on small businesses in this country stop?\u201D She said, \u201CMy business is barely viable as it is with all of the additional costs over the last few years and this is just another thing on top of another thing that we don\u2019t need.\u201D So when the previous speaker says, \u201CWe keep hearing about the costs.\u201D, well, this is a business owner who is in the eye of the storm of these costs and she just wants this Government to listen and say, \u201CActually, stop putting all of these burdens on us, because we are sinking rather than swimming, and that\u2019s what we want for our businesses.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe other thing that the last speaker mentioned was, \u201CLook, I\u2019ve got this on my CV, employ me.\u201D, and that\u2019s one of the points that I was going to make in my contribution, around the fact that, regardless of the need, the requirement, for a health and safety representative, committee, and formal process for these small businesses, regardless of whether or not there have been health and safety breaches or it\u2019s an unsafe workplace, regardless of the fact that it might be the safest workplace with no breaches and everything\u2019s been working fine, if an employee decides that they want to go down this track and make a request of the employer, then the employer has no choice: they must oblige. And so in the case of a business where there have been no breaches, where there is a perfect safety record, they still have to\u2014regardless of all of that\u2014say yes to the worker so that, in response to the last speaker, yes, that employee can have it on their CV and have it as a great thing to say to the next employer: \u201CLook what I\u2019ve got on my CV.\u201D, at the cost of the last employer, who had no choice, regardless of the fact that his business was actually perfectly safe and he only had two employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe spent hours\u2014it\u2019s almost to the point of being amusing\u2014in select committee talking about two words. I want to just turn now to the fact that there was one small change made to the bill and there were hours of deliberation over this, around the fact that replacement section 62, inserted by clause 4, said a worker \u201Cmay notify\u201D and section 62(2) said if a person conducting the business or undertaking (PCBU) \u201Creceives notification\u201D. The majority of the committee decided that that was in contrast with replacement section 66, inserted by clause 5, which says workers \u201Cmay request\u201D the PCBU to establish a health and safety committee and then the PCBU must establish a committee after receiving a request. So using the terms, apparently, \u201Cnotify\u201D and \u201Cnotification\u201D and then \u201Crequest\u201D may well have been confusing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe committee decided, by majority, about the different actions that are required because of these two different words and decided that \u201Cnotify\u201D might mean a more formal process. So we had to make it very clear in our select committee report that that was not the intent\u2014that it\u2019s not around a super formal process that has to be in writing, for example. So we went down the track of changing everything so it all lined up to say \u201Crequest\u201D, but we have said in our deliberations that that does not imply that the PCBU can decline, because when you think about the word \u201Crequest\u201D it indicates that there could be a declining of that request; we have made it very clear in our select committee report that action must be taken. So, many hours spent poring over the words \u201Cnotify\u201D and \u201Crequest\u201D and then ending up with \u201Crequest\u201D but making the note that request cannot be declined. So that was the only change that was made to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe won\u2019t be supporting this bill, as my colleague Paul Goldsmith has already given many reasons for. But I think, in the end, it comes down to a balance. You know, the National Government that put in place these rules realised the cost\u2014the enormous cost on small businesses\u2014and set that level of 20 employees. We don\u2019t believe that the balance needs to be shifted in this case. And, actually, this bill, we think, goes too far in that it forces employers, once a request is made, to put in place a health and safety representative and committee, regardless of their track record and regardless of the health and safety potential problems in that business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo, for that reason and for the all of the additional costs that have been piling up on our small businesses, we will be voting against this bill. And I say to the woman that I was in the car with the other day, who was talking about all of these additional costs and the fact that she\u2019s barely holding her head above water and that this would just be another thing that would potentially mean that her business wasn\u2019t viable\u2014I say to her that the National Party will continue to stand up for the 105,000 small businesses around the country that will be impacted by this law, and vote against this and other similar legislation which just puts more and more costs on our small businesses who, actually, in these times, we need to fire up. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022097d2941f25d4d3aaaee9cad8b8c7549\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022097d2941f25d4d3aaaee9cad8b8c7549\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my pleasure to take a short call on the second reading of this bill. It is the first time I\u2019ve been able to speak in this House, and I just want to acknowledge the terrible devastation that happened in Wellington\u2014in Newtown, particularly\u2014yesterday at the Loafers Lodge. Six people, incidentally, lost their lives, and that is a tragedy and it\u2019s unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI stand here in this House today talking about health and safety. I listened to the other side of the House and I listened to their arguments about not supporting this bill, about not supporting the rights of the workers in companies to be able to elect a health and safety representative or even a health and safety committee, and I think about the unfolding situation as the police go in and do their investigation at the Loafers Lodge and I think about the health and safety surrounding that particular building. I wonder and I care for the workers who worked inside that building and, potentially, some of the health and safety concerns that they may have wanted to raise but maybe didn\u2019t have the opportunity to raise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis bill will, from the time that it passes in this House\u2014and this bill will pass\u2014give workers the opportunity to be able to elect a health and safety representative and a health and safety committee, if they choose to, to be able to request information from the business itself and to be able to inspect a workplace. Trained health and safety representatives may be able to issue a provisional improvement notice to address a health or safety problem or to direct a worker to cease unsafe work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWorkers inside any company see things at the front line, and it\u2019s incredibly important to be able to give those workers the opportunity to be able to raise problems when they see them. I know that because, as of the middle of last year, I was a hospitality business owner. We had a bar and a restaurant, and we had many health and safety issues that would come forward. Often it was staff raising it, but I also understand how I was an open-minded business owner and I would listen to my staff, how I knew that there were some operators that actually didn\u2019t and/or wouldn\u2019t listen to their workers, because they had other pressing priorities. It is a shame, and I think that what we\u2019re attempting to do here, to give voice to those workers, is incredibly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI heard the previous member talk about the imposition of potential cost and the assault on businesses. This is not an assault on businesses. This is an incredibly rational piece of legislation which is going to give voice to workers and, hopefully, those workers and business owners\u2014small-business owners\u2014will be able to work constructively together on the issues that are raised. This is 100 percent not part of an assault on business owners, as was previously suggested. This is a great piece of legislation that workers up and down the country will, hopefully, breathe a sigh of relief from, and I hope that we start seeing them pop up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EAnd it\u2019s not compulsory\u2014this is not compulsory; this is an option. It is absolutely just an option for workers to be able to take this up if they so feel as though their voice isn\u2019t being heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, the Labour Party have always been about looking after the voice of workers, and this bill demonstrates that 100 percent. The contribution from the other side of the House represents their interests and who they represent. On this side of the House, we\u2019re doing the right thing. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022367ee5f664854240a2fc08c76c381b8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022367ee5f664854240a2fc08c76c381b8a\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. It\u2019ll come as no surprise to anyone that ACT opposes this bill. Listening to the arguments from the Opposition, it is really quite sad. I\u2019m really pleased that the last speaker, T\u0101mati Coffey, is one of the only good ex-employers around, but he might be really interested to know that most employers\u2014most of them\u2014are actually good people just like you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe name of the bill is comical, even. It\u2019s lots of words needed just to set up a committee that, in itself, isn\u2019t needed. And it really does show how out of touch the Government is when it comes to doing small businesses working in New Zealand. Like the Plain Language Act, the fair pay agreements, last night I listened to the Grocery Industry Competition Bill\u2014just solutions looking for a problem and just make it harder to do business in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Health and Safety at Work Act 2015 to reduce the size of the persons conducting business as usual from 20 down to with no limit, health and safety representative or five or more workers \u201Cmay establish a health and safety committee\u201D. It\u2019s not going to be compulsory, as was mentioned, and workers may prefer to engage in less formal ways through regular health and safety meetings, like they do now; like almost every business that I know\u2014small business\u2014does now, quite happily; they don\u2019t need this. Again, it\u2019s the lack of consideration of the imposition on businesses, and the fact that there is no evidence that there\u2019s anything to solve and to acknowledge that productivity must be a major consideration in any legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the submitters, and obviously they did fall into two separate groups. The Employers and Manufacturers Association pointed out there was no evidence to support the bill that would justify the cost and disruption to business, As was mentioned before, it\u2019s going to take two days training per year, 105,000 businesses: that\u2019s 210,000 training days. Fees are paid for by the business, plus you\u2019ve got to replace the person who\u2019s out being trained. The lack of productivity is just immense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI heard the Government members scoffing when one of the National speakers started talking about minimum wage and the sick leave, and scoffing as if, \u201CHere we go again.\u201D Absolutely no understanding of the effect that these policies are having on small businesses at all. Business New Zealand said that to impose additional and unwarranted obligations on smaller businesses at a time when many are already facing difficult economic conditions\u2014and, again, it\u2019s a solution looking for a problem that doesn\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EOf course, we also heard from supporters of the bill. Guess who! The unions, those groups who represent 14 percent of workers. Unite Union said employers \u201Chave no interest in workers\u2019 views on their [health and safety] and actively prevent effective [worker engagement, participation, and representation].\u201D They forget to put any evidence at all for that statement. The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions said evidence would indicate that, in the long run, the change is likely to \u201Cbenefit the balance sheets of small business.\u201D I don\u2019t know where they get that from; there\u2019s no evidence attached at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EOn Monday, I met with a workplace compliance officer to inspect the LPG tanks in my business. We went round, we had a look\u2014looked at the safety valves, checked out the fire extinguishers, made sure the folder was all up to date of staff training, and doing what we\u2019ve done every year once a year. This sort of stuff already happens\u2014it already happens\u2014and it\u2019s a real shame that the Government doesn\u2019t know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EMost employers and employees who I speak to think that sections 45 and 46 are the most important of the Health and Safety at Work Act. It reads: the \u201CDuties of workers while at work\u201D and 46, the \u201CDuties of other persons at a workplace\u201D must \u201Ctake reasonable care for his or her own health and safety; and take reasonable care that his or her acts or omissions do not adversely affect the health and safety of other persons.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the common-sense rule, the personal responsibility rule that, unfortunately, just doesn\u2019t equate with the current regime. Whether it\u2019s education or committing crimes, it\u2019s always someone else\u2019s fault or someone else\u2019s responsibility. One submitter who owns a small business said, \u201CThis will introduce unnecessary additional compliance for small business, add cost, and in turn drive further price increases and inflation. There should be more responsibility and liability attached to individuals to encourage them to take responsibility for their own actions.\u201D Just so much common sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe constant assumption from the Government that \u201Cemployers are bad; employees and good\u201D is really quite offensive. The division that they intentionally try and create is very unhelpful for business in New Zealand. Employers are good people; they care about their employees, their conditions, their pay, their welfare, and their future. Like farmers looking after their land, it\u2019s in their best interests. ACT opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4ad0980c41340e1967849c418eb5bc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4ad0980c41340e1967849c418eb5bc5\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019m pleased to rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it removes the ability for a person conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU) with fewer than 20 staff that are not in the high-risk designated area of employment to decline the request for an election for a health and safety rep, and also the ability for any PCBU to refuse a request to establish a health and safety committee where the PCBU is satisfied existing practices sufficiently meet their requirements. Basically, it\u2019s about making sure that more of our businesses have the ability, when requested, to have worker voice to improve the health and safety. What this will result in is, hopefully, appropriately trained health and safety reps who can meet with the employer and pass on information from other colleagues who may be struggling to articulate their concerns about what they\u2019re seeing in a workplace, who might be a bit nervous or not that confident in communicating or have had negative experiences with an employer previously. It enables that trained health and safety rep to do an inspection in a workplace and to be able to issue\u2014if they\u2019re appropriately trained\u2014provisional improvement notices (PINs) to get a change to ensure that the workplace hazard is removed and people can be safe in their workplace, and that they can direct workers not to undertake unsafe work until fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ENow, these provisions\u2014in effect, we are following through on a recommendation of an independent task force that was set up in the wake of Pike River, where they noted that worker participation was a crucial weak link in the New Zealand health and safety system, and they recommended that all workplaces have access to reps and health and safety committees. That was in the wake of what I think everybody around this House surely recognises as a day of absolute shame for our country, where the just running down and hands-off approach to health and safety came home to roost in the death of 29 men in their workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI hear the discussion from National and ACT saying, \u201CThis is a solution looking for a problem. There is no evidence of a problem.\u201D I want to just speak back to that and say that, last year, 64 people died at work. More than one person a week died at work in this country, and they are saying that there is no problem. We have a rate of workplace fatalities double that of Australia per capita; death in our workplaces is four times that of the UK. And this National and ACT Party are saying there is no problem. They are happy with that status quo. They are happy and willing to accept that number of people not coming home from work, that number of families who lose a member close to them. That is what they are accepting when they stand up in this House and say, \u201CEverything is fine. The cost on business is balanced equal to the cost of those lives.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbe5d560ec9345ccbac760940cb186fe\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely disgraceful. What a disgrace\u2014what a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e17b3d57ece548099306eba698fcbbd6\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: That is what those members are saying, and I think that is disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also note where they\u2019re saying\u2014it\u2019s nothing to do with this bill, maybe, but we have to recognise that, actually, the data we do have in terms of injuries, the now workplace, not even the fatalities show that the smaller businesses have much higher rates of injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9528f56cfb341f88b20143c4814445e\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: Can you show that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4e12cba7f344653adbe4f90f5b66f87\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the ACC data showed that workplaces and firms of around 20 workers or less were 57 percent more likely to suffer an injury than larger businesses, and 23 percent more likely to suffer severe injuries than workers in a larger firm. But that side of the House is saying, \u201CThat is not a problem; nothing to see here.\u201D The international evidence is unequivocal: it is absolutely clear that health and safety reps, that workers\u2019 voice, and that those committees make a difference. They make our workplaces safer because, actually, those people doing the work, see the problems. Sometimes it just needs support structurally\u2014it\u2019s not about the intention of the employer, but just the structure for that voice to be heard, to be able to address the problems, and to ensure the safety of people. I see somebody in National theatrically yawning at this conversation about the safety and death of workers and our country, and I just have to say that I find that deeply offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f502d3556e472f82d5144e950d61e0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Deeply offensive!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def7d2ace0dc47d0846b1f3bf0e7124e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: So they find my speech offensive\u2014so offensive to actually be bringing into this House the reality of workplaces in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d70e1a9543f0468c86fc0bc46c1b3015\u0022\u003EChris Baillie\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re abusing employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341100bdba5c4d1ebaf67dcf9bd161cc\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it\u2019s seen as an attack on employers to be talking about the deaths of people in their employ. How is that the case? Why is that adversarial? I\u2019m not making it adversarial. I am saying that that status quo is unacceptable, those deaths are unacceptable, and we have a choice in this House to make a difference based on evidence to save some lives, and to prevent people from further serious injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would say that in this bill that a lot of the submissions\u2014I do want to speak briefly on those. That, actually, there were a lot of other issues raised around this, and I do think that this bill is a first step. I think there is clearly, from the submissions that came to us, more work that needs to be done. Significant concern was raised about the way the legislation is currently being interpreted in terms of the training available, and there was a call for the legislation to ensure that the initial training of two days enables health and safety reps to achieve the New Zealand Qualifications Authority standard that would enable them to take action and issue a PIN. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would note that I was deeply disappointed in one of the employer groups that came to the committee: they offer a two-day training\u2014two days is prescribed in legislation\u2014but it does not include the assessment for that qualification to enable the workers who do that training to issue PINs. So if they want to be able to have that intervention, they have to do additional training in their own time, at their own cost, to be able to play the role that was intended by the legislation. I don\u2019t believe that that necessarily needs a legislative change, but it absolutely needs intervention to change it because it is, I think, an appalling abdication of responsibility and working around the legislation as it is not intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAlso, there was the call for union reps to be able to issue PINs and therefore being roving reps. Also, the Disabled Persons Assembly had a great contribution at the Education and Workforce Committee, noting the concern for disabled people being able to access some of the health and safety measures in their workplace and that there was systemic discrimination. There is a fund through the Ministry of Social Development to support people in the workplace, but recent research from the Disabled Persons Assembly shows that, actually, people are not accessing that as they need to. It\u2019s very clear to me that we need to have more promotion of that and a review of those rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to call out for the petition that was launched on Workers\u2019 Memorial Day for there to be legislation to introduce corporate manslaughter to actually hold people accountable for the failures to keep people safe at work and to recognise that as a profound duty, which it is not currently, properly, I believe, recognised as.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u00221336925e28394b80ab7a8103fb5e00af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221336925e28394b80ab7a8103fb5e00af\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to take a call on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221582442a2cca49709897a0f180dbcd54\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what about the rest of us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022547dabba1c684297987be290f63d3c3d\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Committees) Amendment Bill. Mr Brownlee\u2019s woken up over there. Now, during the committee stage of the bill and today, you know, the Opposition have focused the debate around productivity. They say the two days\u2019 training per year for small businesses would equate to too much lost productivity, but it doesn\u2019t appear that they have considered the lost days of productivity across those businesses due to preventable workplace injuries, and I want to point out that according to ACC, the average care hours per serious injury claim is 58 days. That\u2019s 58 days where that worker would be away from work, which will be at significant cost\u2014not only for the businesses but also the workers\u2019 families and the workers themselves. Now, if that serious injury was prevented by a trained health and safety rep, I would argue that investment in that two-day course is money well spent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003ESo I suppose my question for the Opposition is: what would be the Opposition\u2019s message for the family of an employee who has suffered a life-changing injury at work in a small business? That could be entirely preventable had that employer invested in that two-day course for that health and safety rep. On all injury claims in New Zealand, 36 percent are still not back working after 10 weeks. So if that trained health and safety rep prevents one serious injury in the workplace or, in other words, if a serious injury is prevented in 5,000 of those businesses with under 20 employees, you\u2019re saving around 250,000 days in lost productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThe point I\u2019m making is that injuries arising from accidents demand an attack on three fronts. The most important is obviously prevention. Yes, the employee has a role in that, but so does the employer. Next in importance is the obligation to rehabilitate the injured. Thirdly, there is the duty to compensate them for their losses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003ENow, to ensure the longevity of our world-renowned ACC scheme, we need the likes of the Opposition to consider the financial sustainability of the scheme, and to consider the potential burden that preventable injuries place on future levy payers, including the Government. And given that around 575,000 small businesses exist in New Zealand, making up 97 percent of the total firms and 29.3 percent of our workforce, small businesses play a valuable role in contributing to the improved health and safety outcomes of New Zealand workplaces. This legislation will help small businesses do just that. So I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa50fea7980c4741ad26df147a6f23e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa50fea7980c4741ad26df147a6f23e8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Sam Uffindell\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002285b81e58f736485ca5428b6c765a7634\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b81e58f736485ca5428b6c765a7634\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s very good to rise and follow on from my friend Dan Rosewarne over the side of the aisle. It\u2019s good to see you back here in New Zealand, my friend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI rise to speak on the health and safety at work amendment bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278072b74f3844085b26c3471a48fcb96\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Right, stop this speech now\u2014stop it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221265eccae05c47fcbf0d765f22e06a9e\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014terrible speech, isn\u2019t it?\u2014and I am going to oppose it. I see Minister Michael Wood is over there. We are definitely going to oppose this one. I mean, this is just a classic\u2014more regulation, more costs\u2014and what is the problem we\u2019re trying to solve? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ELook, it\u2019s probably a good endeavour\u2014you know, you see something there and you\u2019re like \u201COh, if we have a health and safety person, that\u2019s going to really stop all the bad things from happening.\u201D But I\u2019m not sure how much risk assessment has been done around whether this is a high-risk situation. You\u2019ve got a small business and you\u2019ve got one person who says, \u201COh, I want a health and safety inspector.\u201D Is it actually closing any risk? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EAlso, are we just going to play the game where we look to minimise risk at any cost, irrespective of what it may be? That\u2019s why I asked at the start whether there has been any cost-benefit analysis done on this one, and I\u2019m not necessarily sure that there would have been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI also note that there wasn\u2019t a lot of consultation that was done with the small retailers and businesses involved, and I find that pretty disappointing. I think that if you are going to go out of your way to impose costs on people, then you need to engage with them in some sort of discussion to understand what their circumstances are and understand whether they\u2019ve got the ability to cope with it and whether it\u2019s actually going to move the needle and make things safer for people. I mean, I don\u2019t mean to be rude, but this is typical of this Government, which just continues to not really consult and continues to add costs on to businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EBusinesses have had a real hard time under this Government in the past few years: consistent minimum wage increases, consistent additions of compliance, worker shortages\u2014there are a lot of things that keep getting piled up on this. On top of that, you get the wider economic issues that we\u2019re all facing: inflation; additional regulations, wherever it may be; and chronic worker shortages, adding to more worker inflation. So my suggestion to the Government would be: instead of adding continual burdens to small businesses, it would actually be better off considering giving the regulator WorkSafe New Zealand a clear set of objectives to work to, rather than the vague measures that have recently been released. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThere are some reasonable costs here. It\u2019s approximately $1,300 a year for people to make sure that they are training up or providing that training to that mandated health and safety person, who may not necessarily make much of a difference. That might not be a one-off cost either, because you might get the situation in a few small businesses you may have a bit of a turnover happening there and these people may be having to face that cost every year, and so why have we really done it? That cost also doesn\u2019t take any account of any potential lost productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo it seems that every time I rise to speak on any bill that this Minister has introduced, I, unfortunately, have to rise to oppose it, and this is going to be no different. He hasn\u2019t looked up at me yet. I keep trying to bait him, but there he is. He\u2019s working away on the next piece of legislation that I\u2019ll get to rise and speak against, no doubt, before this Parliament is out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5cc5a532b4745a9a96f69e638f32149\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Say something useful and you might get a response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266fd997b16554d56a4bd3264d61fe794\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s chirped up now\u2014there he goes. That\u2019s good. I\u2019m glad I got your attention, Minister. The \u201CMinister for Potholes\u201D, the \u201CMinister for Auckland Light Rail\u201D, the \u201CMinister for Nurse Shortages\u201D\u2014he\u2019s lit up. But no, no, it\u2019s very good to have you here, Minister. I do admire a Minister who actually sits through the duration of the readings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220039001eadc946038f0aeeb262443c6b\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, he\u2019s on duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a66a64381ab74cbcbbef1f487fb625ab\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s on duty. Well, there you go. I mean, one day, maybe when you\u2019re the leader of the Labour Party in six months\u2019 time, you might not have to do House duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EBut I will wrap this up there\u2014all tongue in cheek here\u2014and just say that we will of course oppose this bill, and I will leave it there. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224ec82fc9b1f14470af437e560e30d0d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ec82fc9b1f14470af437e560e30d0d8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Marja Lubeck\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u00223bf1dd80748044b0b8bd11159d83ef0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bf1dd80748044b0b8bd11159d83ef0b\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. Unlike the previous speaker, Sam Uffindell, who was smiling all through a very serious issue of people getting seriously injured, hurt, and even killed in our workplaces, I would like to talk a little bit about what the bill actually does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI also want to make a comment on the words that the ACT member used a few times during his speech, which was the word \u201Coffensive\u201D. But what I find terribly offensive is referring to this bill and the measures that it takes to keep our workers safe as an \u201Cimposition\u201D. I also take offence to the previous speaker talking about \u201Cplaying games\u201D, when it has been pointed out by the Green Party member very eloquently that we still have hideous rates of injury at our New Zealand workplaces: 64 people die a year in their workplaces. And that member called it playing games. Now, that is offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENobody on this side of the House is saying that employers are bad, but our levels of harm need to reduce because the rates of injuries and killing of workers is too high in comparison to other countries. We have made good progress, as the Minister pointed out previously, but we need to keep doing that work to reduce the harm done to New Zealand workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, the previous speaker and others have also mentioned: what is the problem we\u2019re trying to solve? It is serious injuries of so many workers in our New Zealand workplaces; it\u2019s 64 workers not returning home to their families from a day\u2019s work\u2014now, that is the problem we\u2019re trying to resolve, and I commend the Minister for bringing this bill to the House and not kicking the can down the road, because this Government actually does tackle the long-term challenges we see in this country. It is international research. So I say to the people that are saying we don\u2019t know what a risk assessment is and a cost-benefit ratio, read the international research. The evidence is really clear that worker representations make a real significant difference to the health and safety outcomes in a workplace, and that is why this bill is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, it is no surprise to me that ACT or National advocate for the status quo, because that is what they do. But \u201Cstatus quo\u201D in this case means that the rates of fatalities per 100,000 workers are, roughly, double what we see in Australia and they\u2019re four times what we see in the UK. Now, our Government doesn\u2019t think that\u2019s good enough, so our Government is taking measures to change that with this bill\u2014this very good bill that the Education and Workforce Committee, chaired by the excellent Camilla Belich, has tackled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI thank the committee for their work. I thank the Minister for having the courage to bring so many good bills to this House addressing some of those long-term challenges, addressing the gaps that the National Government left us, and I commend it to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022882c93896d6b4c5a90e456ae6bba0f9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022882c93896d6b4c5a90e456ae6bba0f9c\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Before I begin, can I please acknowledge the tragic deaths at Loafers Lodge, and specifically the families that have now been displaced. I do want to acknowledge the firefighters and the first responders, and, as we move forward, specifically the Wellington community. May those who lost their lives rest in peace; manuia lau malaga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI rise to make a short contribution. On this side of the House, we have heard our Minister speak that the reason why this amendment bill must come to the House\u2014must be passed\u2014is it\u2019s about honouring the Labour manifesto, the election promise that we made in 2020, to support and protect our workers, because, currently, the health and safety of many workers across the motu\u2014there are decisions being made for them that they don\u2019t understand\u2014specifically those employees in small firms where the workers are only totalling 20 or under. This bill, the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill, will help those workers to be formally engaged to request that, when they require some good advice for health and safety requirements, they are able to participate and they are able to use this mechanism, because currently they don\u2019t feel safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EA person who is labelled as a \u201Cperson conducting a business or undertaking\u201D can make the decision, if they are working for an employer with under 20 workers, to refuse to establish a health and safety representative or a health and safety committee, because, in their view, the current practice meets the requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThis amendment bill was introduced and referred to the Education and Workforce Committee and was reported back to the House on 5 May. I want to acknowledge the officials and the 24 submitters who provided further recommendations for the Education and Workforce Committee, and I thank them for their work, and I am very pleased that I am now a member of the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe intent and the objectives of this bill are very clear, because we want our workers to be safe, we want them to understand their rights and their obligations, and we want to reduce the harm in terms of some of those workplaces where they don\u2019t feel safe. So we\u2019ve heard what the other side have said, and they say there\u2019s no problem\u2014they are the problem: the National Party and ACT. Labour is delivering on its election promise. We want this bill to go through to reduce the risks for our workers. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022920ea0b3864a4486bd8a4ff6272c64ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022920ea0b3864a4486bd8a4ff6272c64ae\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak in opposition to the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill in this, its second reading. I speak in opposition to it because this is just another burden being added on to small businesses. The bill removes the threshold where persons conducting a business or undertaking are only required to have a health and safety representative or establish a health and safety committee if they employ more than 20 employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESome of the banter that\u2019s been going on in the House today has been fairly unpleasant around employers showing disregard for their staff members. I have never seen, in my time as an employer and liaising with a range of industry employers, that they are not absolutely committed to ensuring that their staff are safe and are not in situations where they are hurt or worse. But this legislation has no risk assessment, so it\u2019s another one of this Government\u2019s one-size-fits-all. It doesn\u2019t matter whether a small business is low risk, they will be required to elect a health and safety representative and pay for their training if just one person within their employment requests that, regardless of what the risk of that small business is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWhen the National Government previously brought in the health and safety legislation, that limit of 20 employees was set because many small businesses are low risk, and the cost of putting in and training health and safety representatives was too great, and there were more informal ways in which those small businesses could address health and safety issues in their business. Many small businesses have a range of ways in which they support their staff. Many of these small businesses are family-type businesses; they look after their staff as if they are family. I\u2019ve been to a number of industry small businesses, particularly, where they\u2019ve put in place a range of health and safety measures\u2014things like tool box talks at the start of the day to go over risk assessment, sensible things that are going to work to keep their staff safe. So this takes away from the employers doing those sensible things with their staff and, instead, requires them to set up processes that are more appropriate for larger businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disappointing that the regulatory impact statement notes that there was no particular consultation with small businesses, which, again, speaks to this Government just going ahead and doing things without asking the small businesses: what is the impact? How could this be done better? Is there another way to do it? \u201CNo. We know best. We are Government; we know best here in Wellington. This is how you will do it.\u201D So it\u2019s not surprising that they didn\u2019t undertake that consultation, because I\u2019m pretty sure they would know that the feedback would be that it is not welcome\u2014another potential cost and more regulation, and it would not be welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EMonth after month, we see this Government passing new legislation and more regulations that add further to the cost of running a small business. We know that small businesses in this country are already struggling with a number of other factors. They\u2019re struggling to get back on their feet after COVID-19. They\u2019re struggling with rapid and rampant inflation. They\u2019re struggling with chronic worker shortages, ram raids, crime\u2014things that are impacting on the viability of their businesses. You might\u2014sorry, not you, Madam Speaker; the Government might think that just adding another thing on isn\u2019t a lot, but it\u2019s the final straw that breaks the camel\u2019s back, in many cases. The smallbusiness owners and the farmers feel like they are just facing a deluge of regulations and legislation, and it is impacting on their confidence. We see that regularly in the surveys that are done and the polls that are done around confidence levels. It impacts on their innovation and their desire to grow their businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo this bill does nothing but impose additional costs on at a time that our small businesses are being absolutely hammered by enough costs already. This Government is very good at sheeting back inflation to things that are happening overseas, but this Government needs to realise that every time they add on another regulation, another piece of legislation with a burden on small businesses, it has to go somewhere. It has to be passed on somewhere, and that somewhere is on to rising costs of products and services that those small businesses are responsible for. So this Government doesn\u2019t seem to get that there is a correlation between their actions and the inflation that this country is experiencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThere might have been noble reasons stated today on the other side of the House of why this legislation has been put up, but let\u2019s remember, this was part\u2014and, in fact, the previous speaker, Lemauga Lydia Sosene, said it; this was honouring the manifesto of the Labour Party in the 2020 election. This was payback for the unions. So this is something that they have promised the unions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894d992f93494bb0b7228e78f5c2bfdf\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order. It is a longstanding Speaker\u2019s ruling that implying that a member or a party is doing something as payback for an external organisation is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022643b0b038f9d4a41ba79b6aa38661171\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022643b0b038f9d4a41ba79b6aa38661171\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member and with apologies. I hadn\u2019t picked that up. The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c53bbc12c654dbf96efaca7ea638c04\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The previous speaker noted that this was honouring their manifesto\u2014the Labour Party\u2019s 2020 election manifesto. It was honouring a promise to the unions. So the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has calculated what this will cost small businesses\u2014and, again, the other side of the House might say $1,300 or $1,400 is small change, but, in these small businesses, that\u2019s actually a significant cost to them. It becomes more significant when there is turnover of staff, and often these small businesses have high turnover of staff. They may well have a number of staff coming in for a short period of time, and so this actually could become quite a consistent burden for that small business that they are constantly having to train their staff and have their staff away from the small business during that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESmall businesses have had to absorb so many additional costs over a short period of time from this Government, and I\u2019ve gone over a number of those already, but the small businesses cannot keep absorbing this cost. They must pass those costs on eventually, and that does impact on inflation. It does impact on the cost of living crisis. This Government really needs to start joining the dots and seeing what they are contributing to this cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis is not a bill with only narrow impact\u2014105,000 businesses in New Zealand fall under that 20-staff threshold. So this is a piece of legislation that is going to potentially impact widely across New Zealand on small businesses. So we can expect to see the products and services that small businesses, supply going up as a result of this piece of legislation that this Government has put in place. Therefore, this Government will have to take responsibility for the impact that has on inflation. This Government will have to stop saying that everything that contributes to inflation is external to New Zealand. It is not; it is the things that this Government is doing, the spending that this Government is undertaking, and the burdens of legislation and regulations that this Government is putting on to the productive part of our economy that are contributing to inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis implies that our small-business owners are not doing everything they can at the moment for the health and safety of their employees. It is an unnecessary piece of legislation. Our employers are committed to keeping safe their most valuable assets: their staff. We oppose this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u002202eed4feab4f46aba8819ba19d35144d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202eed4feab4f46aba8819ba19d35144d\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI also want to start with my acknowledgment of yesterday\u2019s tragedy in Newtown. This incident happened about 300 metres from where I live\u2014just down the road from me. A lot of people who have been caught in this tragedy are people that I know very well. Specifically, I want to acknowledge Liam Hockings; today, we found out that he is missing. Liam was my neighbour in 2011 when I lived in one of the apartments in Wellington Central. Then we both ended up moving to Newtown. Every day, I\u2019d see him walking down the street and buying stuff from Countdown in Newtown. It would be only a few days ago that I spoke to him, and he looked very happy. I want to acknowledge his family and that this is very devastating news to all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EHealth and safety issues in New Zealand is\u2014at some point, something needed to be done about it. I actually want to acknowledge the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety\u2014who unapologetically has been standing up for working people, for vulnerable people\u2014and the Education and Workforce Committee for their work on this bill. The situation around health and safety needs to be improved, and this bill is going to do just that. It\u2019s a step in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWorkers in New Zealand are exposed to a higher risk of work-related harm than other countries, like the UK, US, Australia. Only in 2022, about 60 people have lost their lives. If this incident, if this fatality doesn\u2019t wake us up, then what\u2019s going to wake us up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI hear the argument that \u201Cthis is going to cause more monetary loss for businesses.\u201D What about the lives that are being lost? Those lives, by simple legislation, can be saved. But the fact that people\u2019s lives are being ignored, that the monetary benefits are being put before people\u2019s lives\u2014I just can\u2019t understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWe are a First World country in many ways, but our health and safety issues or problems need to improve. I have worked as a cleaner, I have worked in farms, and I have seen vacuums blowing up on people\u2019s backs, and I\u2019ve seen people being hospitalised by accidents that could have been prevented if we had legislation like this in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWe do have a legislation\u2014we do have a health and safety legislation. For example, setting up health and safety committees brings workers and the employers together, and they can cooperate on improving health and safety. This legislation that we have now only applies to employers who have more than 20 employees. It doesn\u2019t go far enough in protecting people and saving people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003ESo this is a very simple legislation that\u2019s going to make a difference in people\u2019s lives. It does really concern me that members on the other side are really standing up on this bill, opposing this bill, but without even giving enough reasons, except the monetary loss to employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis is sensible legislation that\u2019s going to change people\u2019s lives. It\u2019s the right one. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f4f48bb2972b414caf5f5da1d66a37a3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000470\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000471\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000472\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced Ayes 74, Noes 44.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8c7fb9a8db24a12971eeda6de63bcb5\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022373f4d043d4d46ae900033d72175bdc3\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e80f491d96de409caf52b4289d4d0569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e80f491d96de409caf52b4289d4d0569\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022360e958fc0b44767a3dd6117d58167bc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a2ff3773f94b1887a362ec485195ae\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018 to provide for clearer arrival information obligations to help with Customs-related border management matters. This includes things such as collection of revenue and detection of restricted or prohibited goods. This bill also aims to improve the collection of arrival information by introducing new offences to enforce the system. This bill will support the digitising of the paper passenger arrival card. The New Zealand traveller declaration is part of work towards a safer and smarter border using technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe already have a smart and safe border by international comparisons, but it\u2019s important that we continually work to improve this. Moving to a digital system for collection of arrival information has a number of benefits, such as improving risk assessment at the border. It will allow quicker assessment of information against risk factors. It will also help cut down unnecessary referrals to border officers. When the digital arrival card is in place, only some people will be referred to a Customs officer if their digital arrival card identifies a potential risk or issue. This frees up the Customs officer to concentrate on those where a potential risk is identified and to look out for persons who might display suspicious behaviour. Those travellers who voluntarily complete their New Zealand traveller declaration prior to arrival will be able to experience a more streamlined process on arrival in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis bill does not include specific stand-alone provisions relating to the sharing and protection of this information. This is because the bill links to the existing robust information-sharing framework and protections in the Customs and Excise Act. Also, the Privacy Act will apply on the arrival information requirement provisions in the bill. The bill also introduces two new offences to encourage compliance by travellers. Most travellers provide arrival information. I expect these offences will only apply to a small group who do not provide their information or do not provide it in the way or timing required, or provide false information. The two offences are: failing to provide the required information and providing information that is erroneous in a material particular. That second offence is not meant to capture minor accidental errors that have no harmful consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EOther changes include regulation-making powers to set the timing for when arrival information can be required and to exempt categories of travellers from providing arrival information. It also provides for Customs to verify information on behalf of other agencies, which is set out in other statutes. This bill does not add new requirements to provide arrival information. Travellers to Aotearoa are already required to complete an arrival card, which includes personal details and questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESection 56 of the Customs and Excise Act sets out the broad purposes for which Customs can collect arrival information such as border security. Customs needs information from a range of sources to undertake its role. The information provided through the digital arrival card is provided from the individual. The traveller states if they are carrying anything that needs to be declared and they provide information that is not provided to airlines, such as whether they are carrying any prohibited items in their baggage. The arrival information questions, particularly those on concessions and prohibited goods, provides an individual the opportunity to do the right thing and declare if they are carrying something prohibited or if a person has quantities over the duty free limit, such as tobacco or alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThe bill was referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which considered several public submissions on the bill. I would like to once again thank the committee for its valuable consideration of the bill, in particular the scrutiny of collection of personal information and information sharing. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee recommended some amendments to the bill unanimously, which were incorporated into the bill following second reading. These changes allowed for the phased implementation of the arrival card obligations in the maritime space and made some minor enhancements to improve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ETo summarise: this bill clarifies arrival information requirements, improves the functionality of the system by providing for regulation making to set when arrival information is required and who is exempt from arrival information. The bill also improves the enforcement of those requirements. The amendments will ensure Customs can fulfil its important border management role and support the shift to digital collection of arrival information through the New Zealand traveller declaration. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1b48579f3564caca374356ebb1bef60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1b48579f3564caca374356ebb1bef60\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5bccf8a39c647cf89a37de351935e8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5bccf8a39c647cf89a37de351935e8c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to congratulate the Minister of Customs, Jo Luxton, one of the finer Ministers in the Labour Government, I would imagine, and who has been, I must admit, a very good friend on the Primary Production Committee and somebody who it\u2019s great to see as a Minister. Well done, and congratulations. It\u2019s a good thing that you\u2019re bringing this bill through the House. So, well done to Jo Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe National Party will be supporting this. This is a simple and necessary bill for travellers coming into New Zealand. I guess the only thing is to make sure that somebody that may not be technologically savvy, like myself, still has the ability to get back to New Zealand, if we wanted to, just in case we can\u2019t operate our phone or whatever device properly. So there\u2019s probably just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a09d01c636541c691d1dfd69d69b53a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Your daughter will do it for you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022877522b6b0f6479e8b6ab122407a8c30\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Thank you, thank you. Well actually, in saying that, she did buy a movie yesterday, at 10 months old, and it wasn\u2019t a great movie, and now we have to watch it. But, yes, I\u2019m sure she\u2019ll be more help than I would at doing these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s probably the only real issue. You know, we can see that these things need to change with time and technology. When people come into the country, they probably wonder what that information is actually used for and whether it is collated properly and, if it is digitised, then it probably does have more reason to do it. All those arrival cards just didn\u2019t make much sense as to what actually happened with them. They were cumbersome, and people would have wondered why they had to fill in something in writing and then not actually know what happened with it. So at least that data would be accessible and would be retained and could be of some benefit at some point. So the National Party supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe only other thing I\u2019d say is that our airports\u2014especially Auckland\u2014are terrible at the moment. Effectively, anybody coming in would think they\u2019re coming into a Third World country, which, effectively, the economy is at the moment. But Auckland Airport really needs to be a lot more efficient. We don\u2019t want to give up our biosecurity and our customs roles, but we need to have efficiency at airports for the traveller experience and also just for the nature of travel if we are a country that wants to be productive and encourage people to come and visit this country. So that would be one thing that\u2014not quite on the bill, but, you know, is part of a package of someone coming into New Zealand. If it is digitised, if it is a bit easier\u2014we don\u2019t want them held up at the airport for three hours while there\u2019s something else that\u2019s happening there. That\u2019s inefficient. National supports the bill, and we look forward to passing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002218f3caf6bd3e465ab0a7ea95c742faf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218f3caf6bd3e465ab0a7ea95c742faf5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.58 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d3aba726a6e4c308c18d7127fc4473a\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229939b53ed9d94b14827c1be0adb4d875\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223ca0f72db1e3462fb1d1beaa7688ea7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ca0f72db1e3462fb1d1beaa7688ea7d\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to seek leave of the House to correct a vote on the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c5ec64751647cdb4c7ab5ddc3b6b06\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the votes to be corrected. Are there any objections? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a2125fe6a884950bf9088feb7d6b714\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s one vote in favour for Meka Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00221f8c584e932248a68df684c175b39148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f8c584e932248a68df684c175b39148\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The record will be corrected accordingly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcaa5b9397b84dba908c2a721883f275\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b8c56f83cd34f319202c4c98e1efb63\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000502\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022254fff41dd63417b9a7e4ef3fcfae87c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022254fff41dd63417b9a7e4ef3fcfae87c\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill, third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very simple bill. It just amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018, and in doing so it provides for clearer arrival information obligations and improves the enforcement and functionality of the system. The bill will enhance border management and the passenger experience by supporting a safer and smarter border. We live in a digitalised world, and we have to update our system accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWhy we support this bill is simple. It\u2019s necessary to support the implementation of digital arrival cards. While the digital arrival card can be implemented under the existing legislation, the bill only improves how the arrival information system works. And that is where there are a lot of changes to the time when information can be provided, and it provides for officers to enforce the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EWe had a few submitters\u2014about five of them. There\u2019s a few different views from the submitters. Some obviously agreed that we need to digitalise our systems; some expressed their concern. None the less, the vast majority were in favour of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to commend the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, who worked collegially on this bill. As a committee, we collectively examined the bill and recommended that the bill be passed with amendments unanimously. And while a simple bill, it does make a difference, and it\u2019s a good bill. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2a78f67838a4a7ebee166f0283dff64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2a78f67838a4a7ebee166f0283dff64\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Can I start by agreeing\u2014that I think the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which considered this bill, is exceptionally good. The chair\u2014I don\u2019t know exactly how to articulate it, but she\u2019s great, she does an excellent job, and has moved this piece of legislation through very positively in the House. So, Madam Speaker, if you get the opportunity, please pass on my thanks to her\u2014I\u2019m sure she will appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4e3b56341c46f6b15b8249bfbbee2e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c07f3227c474afdb8ea99011ee80e4f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Does that get me an extra five minutes? No, I\u2019m only kidding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, National continues to be very pleased to support this Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill, as we now move into its third and final reading. As I did at the committee stage, I want to acknowledge the new Minister of Customs, Jo Luxton, who is in this role and has picked it up at a very, very late stage. Fortunately for her, I would say\u2014and not a reflection on her, but fortunately as a new Minister\u2014it\u2019s a bill that is relatively without controversy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, seeing we\u2019re in the third reading, I\u2019ll traverse a few of the aspects, to make sure it\u2019s well recorded and for those at home to understand what this is all about. Fundamentally, we\u2019re moving away from those little, DLE-size blue arrival cards that we are all familiar with, on to a digital asset. So for New Zealanders and others visiting New Zealand\u2014actually, sorry, I\u2019d better back that up: a New Zealander can\u2019t, strictly, visit New Zealand. So for New Zealanders returning home, and others within the Realm, and for those visiting, they are now, from late June, going to use an online system. For many Kiwis, they\u2019ll be somewhat familiar with the system, if, like me, you had to use the New Zealand traveller declaration. It\u2019s going to be a similar system. Can I stress the word \u201Csimilar\u201D\u2014it\u2019s not a health declaration. It\u2019s, in effect, the same questions that we are familiar with when we return to the country, and those questions are actually a mixture of Customs and Ministry for Primary Industry questions that are put to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s going to a digital format. This is a prudent way forward, which is one of the reasons this side of the House supports it. We are becoming a much more technologically driven country, and, for me, personally, I\u2019m hopeful that because this information will be swiftly available\u2014obviously, Customs and our other agencies will be able to use and deploy it. But it\u2019ll also be of use\u2014and we had the likes of the tourism industry come in and speak to us to say they would really appreciate being able to get quick access to that arrival data; it assists with their planning. I should again put for the record: the systems in place with Customs are already pretty good, if not excellent, actually. As the shadow Minister of Customs, I have to say they\u2019re a remarkable agency. As many in this House know, they do an exceptionally good job. And so these aspects are tinkering, if you will, or are subtle changes around the edges. They already share information very strongly and positively with the likes of the tourism industry\u2014at a high level; better be clear to the House and others. They\u2019re not sharing particular and personal data. It\u2019s high-level data. But if this is now coming through a digital means, that\u2019s a positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs I say, it\u2019s now going to a digital format. One of the elements that exercised quite a bit of time within the select committee was the question of whether there would be new questions. For those who have taken the time\u2014as I am sure everyone in this House, as I look around, has studiously studied the bill; it\u2019s only four pages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751f1d8742db4fda8b57833f8a7ebcc3\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e756799044848aa9c611a1dfddcf96c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Twice, says one of my colleagues here: the Hon Michael Woodhouse. Long and short, the legislation does not\u2014repeat: does not\u2014prescribe the questions which should be on the arrival card. And the committee was a little concerned about that, primarily because we did not want to see a host of new questions appear that some of us would feel were intrusive or frivolous or unnecessary. Why I\u2019m sharing this is I think it\u2019s really important to put on the Hansard, as we were given very good and clear advice that the existing Customs and Excise Act makes it very, very clear the scope of what the chief executive or the Comptroller of Customs can put within the arrival card\u2014and that applies to other agencies as well. It was therefore thought that it\u2019s better to empower, as this piece of legislation does, the chief executive or the Comptroller of Customs to prescribe those questions by regulation. There\u2019s always a chance\u2014well, there\u2019s not always a chance. There will be a chance in the future that we have to update those questions, and it\u2019s better done by regulation rather than literally another amendment bill has to be created and we have to come back into this House and go through a first, second, third reading\u2014obviously, a committee stage and select committee as well. So it\u2019s prudent to leave that to the comptroller or to the chief executive of Customs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe other element which exercised us a little bit was around data security, and particularly around the sharing of information. We were given very good and strong assurances that there are already positive, if you will, memorandums of understanding between the likes of Customs and the Ministry of Social Development, our intelligence agencies, Police, and others, to make sure that that data is appropriately used. And, really importantly for those at home, this bill does not change any of that. It doesn\u2019t change any of that, whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not so much a question; it\u2019s an encouragement to the Government, that, again, while we support this to make sure the support systems are in place\u2014we\u2019ll all know, possibly in our own families, those who are not particularly tech savvy; they will find it a challenge to log on to any system and do this digitally\u2014to make sure there are systems in place to assist those people at the border whether it is through an online system or whether they still have access to paper. It\u2019s my understanding, from a comment from the Minister, I think in the second reading but perhaps in the committee stage as well, that a paper option will still be available. But, as I say, it\u2019s not just about the systems; it\u2019s making sure we have people in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI just want to end with a couple of last thoughts, if I might. One is around the maritime vector. It\u2019s something which the chair of the select committee in foreign affairs has heard me speak about before, perhaps. We are really, really good at policing, for want of a better word\u2014despite we\u2019re talking about Customs\u2014policing the airport vector of people arriving. We are not, in my opinion, as good or as strong or as consistent as we could be within the maritime vector. I\u2019m not talking about defence forces. I\u2019m aware that there\u2019s a delay of a few months via this bill for them to implement the system. I\u2019m talking about the cruise ships, and so forth. Personally, I think we just need to tighten up a little bit there, to make sure that those arriving into New Zealand via the likes of cruise ships go through the same or very close to the same rigour which we have at our airports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd the second thing is\u2014and I mentioned earlier about changing the questions. One\u2014it\u2019s only a suggestion. I\u2019m big into modern slavery\u2014or, sorry, I\u2019d better rescind. I\u2019m not into modern slavery; I\u2019m against being, you know, a modern slaver. Let\u2019s be really clear about this. This is the problem with our nomenclature in this Parliament. I would love to see a more robust approach in our questioning, to ensure that we\u2019re capturing elements of modern slavery. And also\u2014and it\u2019s a very particular issue, but it might be surprising to some people both in this House but certainly at home\u2014around forced organ transplantations, which, sadly, happen around the world. And New Zealand is a bit of a laggard in this space. We are not asking the appropriate questions to flush these behaviours and actions out. And so it\u2019s just an example of how we may change, through Order in Council or regulation, our questions coming into the country. It\u2019s a much longer and wider debate, but those of us from across the House who are interested in human rights see there are issues around organ transplantation. We see issues around modern slavery. And as with an event last night, we see issues around our Magnitsky sanctions. All three of them are areas we do not\u2014again, do not\u2014have adequately in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo an encouragement with this new bill, which I am confident will pass tonight, that not only we set these systems well into place but we apply them appropriately, not only to protect the Realm but also to make sure that New Zealand continues to enhance its human rights framework. And with that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u00225cf5832e948d4530bce5270e861d32c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cf5832e948d4530bce5270e861d32c0\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to take a call on the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill. This bill amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018 to improve and modernise the processes at our border. The bill provides an explicit obligation on arriving passengers to provide prescribed arrival information and creates new regulation-making powers to set the time by which our arrival information must be provided to Customs. The bill also creates new offences for failing to provide described arrival information and for providing false arrival information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EThese new changes mean that the bill allows the creation of a digital arrival card that will make arrivals more efficient and easier to handle. The digital arrival card will make arrival to New Zealand a better experience, for those of us that have travelled recently and for visitors, and free up border officers from unnecessary referrals and allow them to concentrate on identified risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019d like to thank my colleagues in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for their work on this bill, because the select committee has only had to make minor changes to make sure that the bill works effectively and provides extra time for the Defence Force and cruise ships to adapt to the new regulations. The committee also made sure that the bill was held to the highest standards on privacy and data collection, as the previous member mentioned, and consultation with the Privacy Commissioner has shown that this change would not expand the range of personal information that the visitors provide beyond what is already provided for in the Customs and Excise Act. So it\u2019s a good bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022daf58d03033b4774b26558c3a45326cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daf58d03033b4774b26558c3a45326cb\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a short call on the third reading of this bill, and there isn\u2019t a great deal to add. Customs obviously do an incredibly important job protecting our border, and this bill enables the enforcement of border regulations to work much more efficiently, we hope, by digitising the arrival declaration. And whilst sophisticated systems exist throughout a traveller\u2019s journey, with all sorts of things updated, this is one area that\u2019s remained rather old school. The benefits have been well canvassed, ranging from improved risk management to faster assessments of travellers, we hope, and ideally fewer people being referred to border officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EI appreciate that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has looked into a few issues I raised in the first reading, and I believe they have adequately addressed them. A few questions remain outstanding following the committee of the whole House stage, but they are relatively minor and not a problem for our ongoing support. I do appreciate the nature of the roll-out, the fall-back\u2014having the paper cards still available and remaining in place\u2014and the way that this has been trialled to do so. Concerns I raised around changing circumstances, in previous readings and the committee stage, have been, I think, mostly addressed, and I thank the Minister for that. I do agree that having a more agile system in place here makes perfectly good sense, though I do hope it doesn\u2019t open the door to a river of constantly changing regulations that could become very confusing for travellers, so I\u2019ll just note that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EWhile an early declaration may present some challenges, in theory, with circumstances changing as I just mentioned, I think the benefits outweigh this, especially as an early declaration allows for better education\u2014they get presented with it, what people can and cannot bring in, and how much and so on\u2014and I think this will result in fewer mistakes and, hopefully, not too many offences, which have obviously been introduced by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, that\u2019s all we really need to say on this bill. The modernisation enabled is probably very well overdue, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32bd99e04b84e779ec3701ed95704b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32bd99e04b84e779ec3701ed95704b8\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Greens to support this third reading of the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill. This bill aims to improve customer-related border management by introducing clear arrival information obligations and digitising the New Zealand Passenger Arrival Card\u2014something that we support; it\u2019s 2023, so moving things to a digitised platform completely makes sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for moving this through the select committee but also engaging in some of those concerns\u2014valid concerns\u2014that people have around data protection and privacy. And I note the discussions that happened during the committee of the whole House and, actually, during this first and second reading as well, where members sought assurance that the bill would not compromise existing memorandums of understanding between, like, Customs and other agencies, between Inland Revenue and the Ministry of Social Development\u2014so not getting in the way of that but finding a way to use all the advantages that you get from a digitised system as well. And also noting some of the concerns around\u2014and the rationale, after hearing it from various members from around the House\u2014the rationale for enabling a CEO to set those regulations; that if there does need to be a different set of questions that need to be canvassed within the digitised arrival card, they are empowered to do that, and also to acknowledge that members want to have better clarifications around that, which is totally appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI think about this in terms of the last three years as we moved through COVID and how\u2014coming through the border\u2014we needed to have a system that actually was a lot more agile and a lot more flexible, so, sort of, making sure that we have the systems in place if, God forbid, something else happens, so that we can have that flexibility that you don\u2019t actually get with a paper system as well. But also acknowledging that some of our wh\u0101nau aren\u2019t the most tech savvy, and so having that paper option is also about ensuring that there is that accessibility as well. And also noting\u2014because I live in a rural community out in the provinces\u2014that sometimes the power goes out, so having the paper option can be quite helpful. Hopefully, that never happens at the border with our airports, and so on and so forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s all I have. I don\u2019t have more to add to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f74f9ed956a450084c00e3579f506b6\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Keep going!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6363e186e4c44b48bc5d79203cf5d41\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO\u003C/span\u003E: You want me to keep going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe61b8059324b0f81ecb787c4695eb5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b759ce7f87f4e86b6842e145683be6f\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO\u003C/span\u003E: Nah, he doesn\u2019t. He doesn\u2019t want me to keep going, because he\u2019s had enough. So the Greens support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002272e445189f30413eb3e1f83e4e19cc77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e445189f30413eb3e1f83e4e19cc77\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E One of the reasons I haven\u2019t heard for replacing the paper cards with digital arrival cards is people like me with really bad eyesight\u2014those cards are tiny and there\u2019s tiny little spaces\u2014and then really, really bad handwriting. I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be a lot of Customs officers out there who not only will be freed up to manage risk but will actually heave a sigh of relief that they\u2019re not wading their way through all these illegible paper cards. But I have to say, like the previous speaker, Teanau Tuiono, I really welcome the fact that paper cards will be available for those who, for whatever reason, will never be able to move into the digital space. And so I think that\u2019s a really good part of the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAs far as what this is intended to do, many other speakers have already said. I just want to focus really on the clearer obligations that this bill makes around when the information is provided and the way it\u2019s provided. And I note that because it\u2019s a strict liability offence, there are really good defences in the bill, particularly in clause 6 around providing erroneous material, if it\u2019s just putting a slight number wrong, something that is not intentionally material and doesn\u2019t have a material effect that that will serve as a good defence. So that\u2019s heartening too when it comes to natural justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, as other speakers have said, it will make the border safer and smarter. It\u2019s clarifying our obligations at the border, it\u2019s making enforcement and functionality better, but, most of all, in my view, it\u2019s going to make life much better for Customs officers who don\u2019t have to deal with bad handwriting and those tiny little cards that are quite difficult to fill out. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b23b4ce51ede486baeeab4471b1e6aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b23b4ce51ede486baeeab4471b1e6aa3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, this is a sensible bill for the time that we live in, but it does have the potential for a little bit of disruption on the way through, and I think it\u2019s good to hear that others in the House have expressed a concern that those who perhaps don\u2019t have access to the digital platform will still be able to use the paper system, at least for a time, because we do give the comptroller the opportunity to actually end that in this bill, as well. I think, in that regard, because there is a lot of authority confirmed for the Comptroller of Customs, there is a need to make sure that this House does express its desire for this to be a successful implementation of a 2023 experience that people should be able to have. But there are circumstances where people won\u2019t, and so that should be covered off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is a little unclear is the time lines that might be involved and the circumstances that would arise if someone, for example, comes through duty free and inadvertently buys a little bit more than their allowance. How is all that going to be handled? How is it worked out? And I think the other thing is\u2014Madam Speaker, you would know, and most in this House would know\u2014that sometimes we find ourselves in jurisdictions where it\u2019s not advisable to switch on your electronic device. So what would happen in that circumstance? Will there be facility on aeroplanes, etc., to be able to access those declarations and make them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the point that Ingrid Leary made is a good one: that a lot of the information that is on these cards is often scruffily put down and very much a challenge to work out exactly what\u2019s said. I suspect that most of those cards never get entered into the system. If there is someone there who\u2019s taking each of the arrival cards and punching in what\u2019s there, it hasn\u2019t been evident in discussions with Customs and with the Ministry for Primary Industries to this point. So this is obviously going to give the system a lot more information\u2014a lot more accessible information\u2014and, from that point of view, and given that we\u2019re a country that does need to protect our borders, we\u2019re not so much worried about someone turning up with an extra bottle of spirits or something, but we are definitely worried if they turn up with food items that might be contaminated and could have a very adverse effect on whole industries in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo, with that, can I say it was an interesting exercise. Our committee, the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, is, of course, extremely well chaired, by a most competent chairperson, who, interestingly, survives with only minimal advice from her co-chair! But it\u2019s always, I\u2019d have to say, extremely valuable, and I appreciate the way she receives that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0e2ec9faadc4b6e940b46a3bbf4ef04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0e2ec9faadc4b6e940b46a3bbf4ef04\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m not privileged to sit on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, although having heard the wonderful words about how enjoyable the committee is and how ably it\u2019s chaired, I\u2019m slightly jealous of my colleagues in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation. Our borders are significant and it\u2019s important for the security of our country and also for our very dedicated Customs officials to be able to do their job properly. This relatively straightforward piece of legislation moves New Zealand forward to what many other countries do in relation to the collection of information at the border. I\u2019ve travelled recently twice overseas after not travelling at all over a period of time due to COVID, and it became clear that most jurisdictions are moving towards this electronic collection of information. This is not merely to move with the times but also to allow the people who are assessing risk at the border to be able to do their job more competently, and I understand from reading the legislation that this will assist them to be able to more ably do their job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt also creates two new offences, which, of course, are necessary in any regime to make sure that there\u2019s compliance with that. I understand from reading the legislation that it\u2019s unlikely that those will be necessary for the majority of the time, but obviously they\u2019re needed for a new system and to ensure that we do have the compliance that we need for our borders. So, along with colleagues from around the House, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00228e7f1510d4cf484d88a14b13cef46d04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e7f1510d4cf484d88a14b13cef46d04\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this important bill tonight. It\u2019s also a pleasure to speak after the Hon Gerry Brownlee, who is a well-respected member of this House, who knows this area well, and who has acknowledged the chair of the committee that considered this bill\u2014the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014as one of our finest committee chairs in our Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, can I speak to the importance of this bill for introducing a digital arrival card. That will make a significant impact for the workers of our Customs Service\u2014those are workers who are really important to our economy. We\u2019ve heard from members around this House about the importance of our biosecurity systems and the safety net that protects our exports and our primary production sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut those workers, they are South Aucklanders around the Auckland Airport; they are workers on the front lines of our airport; they are people who look out for our community; they are people who put themselves on the front lines of COVID during the global pandemic, protecting our borders; and they are the people who we stand in solidarity with every day around the Auckland Airport and, indeed, around the other international airports in the country, who my colleagues on the other side of the House are giving a shout-out to now in this late stage of the debate\u2014in this late stage, because it is the Manurewa MP who has given a shout-out to her Manurewa workers and the workers of South Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to make sure that we are updating our technology so that our workers are doing the most efficient jobs that they can and that we are supporting them through these times when there are shortages at our airports. That workforce is under pressure, and everything we can do to support them is good work in my books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00229a70a10fcb4140a59bada5af02bdb857\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a70a10fcb4140a59bada5af02bdb857\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I was just enjoying that little discussion there, but it\u2019s my pleasure to rise and take a call on the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill, which will soon become law. This bill amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018 to provide clearer arrival information obligations, to improve the enforcement and functionality of the system, to improve border management and passenger experience by supporting a safer and smarter border, and to support modernising our border by making improvements to support the implementation of a digital arrival card. I trust that the focus will very much be on what those intentions are, noting that we want to ensure that those who come here and don\u2019t have maybe as great an access to the digital tools that others might are still able to take advantage of what\u2019s intended by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI also was pleased to hear South Auckland customs workers getting a call-out. Look, I\u2019ve lived and worked in that region in the past myself, but I should say the border certainly doesn\u2019t end there. We\u2019re here in Wellington tonight, and I need to make a shout-out to those who are working here in Wellington. I need to make a shout-out to those in Christchurch who are doing the hard work, and in my home town of Queenstown\u2014make a shout-out to all those workers who are doing that work to make sure that we protect our border and look after our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI should just say that this is an arrival bill we have. I\u2019m pleased to say we have been seeing a strong growth again in tourism. It\u2019s certainly not back to anywhere near what it was, but it is coming back and that is very, very good to see. It\u2019s very important for our country and our economy. At a time when we have a balance of payment deficit that is the highest in the developed world, it\u2019s really important that we have this foreign exchange coming to the country, and it\u2019s great to have those tourists coming from overseas to share our wonderful country and that we can share with them. Also, this bill is to make sure we protect that other part of our economy, the primary sector, which is so important, and that we make sure we don\u2019t get any foreign organisms that could severely damage that sector. So this bill is a good one to address that and make sure we are protecting our border well in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI do have to make one light comment, and I hope it\u2019s light, but this is an arrival bill; maybe it should also be a departure bill, because I picked up the bill from the from the Table tonight and I see the Hon Meka Whaitiri is still listed there on the bill\u2014a Government bill in the name of the Hon Meka Whaitiri. So there\u2019s, you know, a little bit of an oversight there maybe, but we all have these moments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo, anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab0e3b39ac1a4807a711d19a4ee016bf\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: The first bill passed by an independent MP!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb07807e9f78425a885ea4f1e512df74\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY\u003C/span\u003E: First bill passed by an independent MP, as my colleague says. So there we are\u2014there we are. There\u2019s always a time for a first, and maybe tonight\u2019s it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EBut, look, in all seriousness, this is a good little bill. It\u2019s well-intended. We want to make sure that we continue to have people moving smoothly through our border but also protecting that border, and, with that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u00225b06966007344f00ba8744330318ca2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b06966007344f00ba8744330318ca2d\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. A pleasure to take a call on this Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill, and let\u2019s bring it back to the arrival part of the bill. So I would like to start with congratulating my friend the Hon Jo Luxton as the Minister of Customs on her new position, and she did a fabulous job, I thought, last night when she took the chair for the first time at the committee stage of this bill. It has been traversed extensively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill, necessary to support the implementation of a digital arrival card. It will support a safer and smarter border, and it\u2019s good that we had reassurances given earlier on that paper versions of this arrival card will remain available. There was, in fact\u2014talking about light moments\u2014a bit of a funny moment just before the dinner break, when some concerns were expressed by Mr Bennett, stating that he may have some trouble filling out an electronic arrival card, and the Assistant Speaker Jacqui Dean suggested that his daughter could perhaps do it for him. Now, I understand Mr Bennett\u2019s daughter is 10 months old, but apparently she is extremely talented and beautiful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, in a previous life I would have been handing out these paper-based arrival cards, and often\u2014I pick up on Mr Brownlee\u2019s comment\u2014there were issues with these cards. They were sometimes not loaded, sometimes they actually had the wrong languages on the card when they were needed in a different language, and I\u2019m also sure that airlines are pleased that they no longer have to carry these in large amounts to hand them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, the other comment that was made by Ingrid Leary I thought was excellent because I recently had to fill out one of these arrival cards when I left my wh\u0101nau in the Netherlands\u2014a shout-out to my sister, who\u2019s watching\u2014and it is extremely difficult with the small print on the cards. So moving to digital cards and to a digital border deals with a lot of these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me to not commend the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and its excellent chair for their work on getting this bill through the House. They made some amendments and some other minor changes that have been well traversed, so all that I need to do is commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00221647438bd8bf48b8bc4c9527b9d37e58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221647438bd8bf48b8bc4c9527b9d37e58\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and I do want to assure the House that the correct Minister\u2019s name will be printed on the final bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224036473a0a07470aa97e248ff73b8a0d\u0022\u003ECharities Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297dff72e1b0b4d5297165dd3351577db\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff1b63c036fc4592a6896f97e4ef5012\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff1b63c036fc4592a6896f97e4ef5012\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Charities Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663306898dc94163bd1077a8be552016\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222b79460e00a4d1289d20b5cd430e98f\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Charities Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ECharities are a core component of a well-functioning, cohesive society and support our nation\u2019s wellbeing, stability, and health. Charities deliver a number of critical services that many rely on and step in when times are particularly tough. We saw this during the COVID-19 pandemic and more recently after the severe weather events. Charities bring people together\u2014people who care about a cause and making a difference, people who want to help those less fortunate and make a positive impact on our society. To say that the work that charities do is valuable would be an understatement, and I want to take this opportunity to thank the charitable sector for their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI am sure that every member of this House has interacted with a charity at some point, as a volunteer, an officer of a charity, a donor, or even a beneficiary. The charitable sector is where I spent most of my working life before entering Parliament, and I have experienced firsthand some of the barriers that charities encounter in their day-to-day mahi. That\u2019s why I\u2019m pleased to see the Charities Amendment Bill have its second reading today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Charities Act 2005, which is a key piece of legislation for the sector. It was established to provide a voluntary registration, reporting, and monitoring regime, to ensure that entities receiving tax benefits continue to carry out their charitable purpose. The Act has been in place for almost 20 years and it was time to ensure that the legislative settings are still fit for purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EChanges to the wider operating environment have prompted the need to modernise the Act; we got this feedback loud and clear from the sector. For example, there have been changes to other legislation that charities need to comply with and also relatively low and declining rates of compliance with the Act. This bill makes practical improvements to the Act to make it easier for charities to continue with their work while balancing the need for transparency and accountability. The bill makes changes that will increase transparency, improve access to justice, and simplify financial reporting that\u2019s required from small charities. Charities should be able to focus on the valuable work that they do while enjoying the benefits of being registered. However, it is also important that the public continues to have trust and confidence in the sector. This bill seeks to strike a balance between these two goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBefore I get into the finer detail of the bill, I would like to acknowledge some people who have helped contribute to its development up until this point. Can I thank the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, Angie Warren-Clark, and committee members for their constructive consideration of the bill. I am aware that several committee members have extensive experience in the charitable sector, and I\u2019m confident that the committee has used this experience to improve the bill. I appreciate the time the committee has taken to understand this bill and the views of submitters, and I recommend that the House take note of the select committee\u2019s report and adopt the amendments recommended by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to acknowledge and thank all those who shared their views on this bill. Their submissions have improved the bill and I appreciate the time they took to prepare written submissions and to appear before the committee. One submitter succinctly noted that the kaupapa of bringing the laws governing charities into the modern era was important, and that legislation should cover all charities fairly and equitably to ensure that those who need their services receive them. I acknowledge submitters who have engaged with this work since the Act\u2019s initial review back in 2018. Submitters expressed their appreciation for the ongoing opportunity to provide input on the bill, and other submitters agreed that the resulting legislation reflects that input. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIn addition to these comments, there are some matters raised by submitters that I would like to discuss further. The bill aims to remove red tape for charities, to allow them to focus on their day-to-day work. The bill does this by enabling simpler financial reporting from small charities, to reduce the compliance burden of reporting. Charities have a duty to financially report each year, to ensure transparency and accountability in their operations. Submitters emphasised the need for simpler reporting standards due to the compliance burden created, and outlined that current reporting under the tier 4 standard is much too onerous for small charities, who typically have minimal resources at their disposal. I am pleased that this provision was met with overwhelming support by the sector. Making practical improvements to the Act is crucial to support charities to get on with their work and reduce that financial reporting that I mentioned for small charities. That\u2019s a real-life example of this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe bill aims to improve public accountability and transparency by improving the mechanisms to strengthen the governance of charities. One way that the bill does this is by amending the definition of \u201Cofficer\u201D to ensure that people with significant influence over the substantial decisions of the entity are captured in the definition. Officers of a charity are not just limited to the treasurer or the chief executive (CE) of a charity, and this change will ensure that people with influence over decision making and the direction of the charity are appropriately defined as officers. Support for this provision emphasised that stakeholders, funders, and the public are entitled to expect the highest standard of best-practice governance for those who lead charitable entities, and that amending the definition of \u201Cofficer\u201D is clearly intended to improve the accountability and governance of charities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe bill also introduces a new requirement for charities to review their governance procedures at least three-yearly, to ensure that they are current and assist the entity to achieve its charitable purpose. Submitters commented that this would improve governance practices in the charitable sector and that it aligns with good-practice guidance. Overall, the provisions aim to improve the standard of governance of charitable entities while not unduly overburdening organisations, and I consider that the amended provision reflects this intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EImproving access to justice for all charities is another key change in the bill. The bill allows more decisions to be appealed, to improve access to justice. Rather than just limiting it to the Charities Registration Board decisions, some of the more significant decisions of the chief executive of the Department of Internal Affairs can be appealed. Submitters in favour of this provision highlighted how the expansion of the appealable decisions heavily favours charities and improves their access to justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESome submitters maintained that this expansion should not be limited to just significant decisions and should include all decisions of the registration board and of the chief executive, but that would be impractical. It would be impractical to broaden this to include all decisions, as this could prevent the CE from exercising their essential compliance and enforcement functions, and that\u2019s not the intent of this bill. The amended provision includes more decisions by the CE that charities may be able to appeal and maintains the improved access to justice that is intended by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo, to sum up, so many of our charities carry out important work to support people who are struggling or going through a particularly tough time. This bill aims to make it easier for charities to operate while also maintaining public support for the sector, which is critical. This, in my view, will continue to support and strengthen the charitable sector. For that reason, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9cbf8e1737a438984767ce6376455ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9cbf8e1737a438984767ce6376455ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002227d1e8cd9c864c8bbcf0500ccf096c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227d1e8cd9c864c8bbcf0500ccf096c05\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Charities Amendment Bill in its second reading, and speak in opposition to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe objectives of the bill are to make practical changes to support charities to continue their vital contribution to community wellbeing, while ensuring that their contribution is sufficiently transparent towards its parties and the public. We contend that this amendment bill does not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ENational absolutely values the work that our wonderful charities and the volunteers undertake for our communities, right across New Zealand. And they deserve to be able to operate under legislation that\u2019s workable and enables them and their volunteers to contribute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EVolunteers contribute an enormous amount to this country\u2014around $4 billion worth of work\u2014and that keeps our communities connected, it supports those that need support, and it revitalises and enriches our communities. There are 28,000 registered charities in New Zealand and they deliver a wide range of services, and we say thank you to all our registered charities and all the wonderful volunteers that work in them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EBut because of that, they deserved much more than a tweaking of the Charities Act. Labour, in their policy in 2017, said they would carry out a first-principles independent review of the Charities Act. They have not done that, and this Government is a master. They do not understand that they should under-promise and over-deliver. They are an absolute master at specialising in over-promising and under-delivering, and we have seen that with the Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill and the transformation they promised the disabled sector. We\u2019re now seeing it again in this Charities Amendment Bill and the promises of this first-principles independent review that\u2019s now landed in just a few tweaks to the Charities Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo people are naturally disappointed in it, and that is why the majority of the submissions called for the bill to be withdrawn. They made it very, very clear that the fundamentals of the Charities Act are not sound, that the definition of \u201Ccharitable purpose\u201D is not working well, and it does not meet its stated objectives of making practical changes to support charities. So they do not support this amendment bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe bill is just another example of unnecessary and unhelpful piecemeal changes being imposed on a sector. But the bill has not been adequately thought through, and you can see that from the submissions. It has not brought in the changes that were wanted; it has put in a myriad of unintended consequences that will place further unnecessary barriers in the way of charities. Even the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) said in its own regulatory impact statement that there is inadequate consultation, inadequate problem definition, and a lack of evidence to support the proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe National Party considers that the definition\u2014let\u2019s get some specific things in here\u2014of an \u201Cofficer\u201D should be limited to governance only, the trustees of a trust and members of governing bodies. I go to a submission from one of our very, very fine charities down in Southland: Number 10 Southland Youth One Stop Shop. They say in their submission, \u201CWe oppose the following proposed changes to the Charities Amendment Bill. This definition of officer is broad, vague, and doesn\u2019t include criteria for deciding who is an officer. It confuses the governance and management relationship and is inadequate for purpose.\u201D That is the sort of submission that came in on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go to another part of the bill. The National Party considers that it\u2019s misleading to state that the bill expands the range of decisions that are able to be repealed when, in fact, the bill limits charities to a mere handful of decisions made by charity services. Many submitters called for all decisions made under the Charities Act to remain appealable, as per the original Charities Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EAgain, I return to the submission from Number 10 Southland Youth One Stop Shop. So they say in clauses 23-26 (55A): it \u201Crestricts charities to four types of appeals only, which is too closely prohibitive. Restricting appeals to only be heard by the Taxation Review Authority is unreasonable given that not all appeals will be tax-related. Charities are much more than their tax status. The choice to go to the High Court is expensive, but charitable entities must be allowed to retain their choice of appeal body.\u201D So I\u2019m sorry, again, the specifics were not supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe National Party considers that requiring three-yearly reviews of governance procedures creates an unnecessary red tape for charities, and it\u2019s contrary to the stated objectives of the bill\u2014and we heard the Minister say that it was going to simplify things. Well, it doesn\u2019t simplify things. It is a blunt, prescriptive, one-size-fits-all legislative rule that does not work in the areas of charities law because they inevitably fail to accommodate the diversity of human endeavour. An increasing array of exceptions and exemptions then becomes needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo, again, this notion of one-size-fits-all from this Government puts our charities in a situation where they will be much worse off. The National Party members believe that the bill is fundamentally flawed and it is not able to be remedied with further tinkering. We support the call by the majority of the charitable sector submitters for the bill to be withdrawn and the Labour Government to honour its manifesto commitment to carry out a proper first-principles post-implementation review of the Act and for it to be carried out independent of the DIA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis original Act was brought in and introduced in 2005 by the then Labour Government. However, at the committee stage in 2004, the bill was almost entirely rewritten and then rushed through under urgency in a single day without proper consultation. Does that sound familiar to anyone? The National Party was concerned about the process then, and we are concerned about the process again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EInterestingly, the Minister has said that she\u2019ll consider a fuller review after this bill has been implemented. Why? Why would you implement a quick bill and then do a full review? So why are we wasting this Parliament\u2019s time on legislation that could very easily be irrelevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThere is so much in here that has been opposed by the submitters. I see again that the submission from the Number 10 Southland Youth One Stop Shop says that the bill must have greater clarification on \u201Cwhat constitutes advocacy and political lobbying and what is permitted.\u201D These charities are concerned, and it is not addressed in this bill: the issue of charities being able to advocate for their charitable purpose without fear of their charitable status, their grant funding opportunities or contracts\u2014Government contracts\u2014being withdrawn. That has not been addressed. The charities, in their submissions, have identified that and yet this Government has not listened to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis bill, we have said, is another example of unnecessary and unhelpful piecemeal changes being imposed on charities against their will. It is not a full review of it. It is nothing like it, and the DIA even confirm it themselves. We oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002249f87fd1177c48878f8eb5f4f9bed654\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249f87fd1177c48878f8eb5f4f9bed654\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, before I commence my speech in regards to the Charities Amendment Bill, it\u2019s the first time I\u2019ve had the chance to rise and extend my condolences to the Newtown community for the tragic fire and loss of lives, and to also extend my thanks for the work that the emergency services have done. It\u2019s hard and it\u2019s traumatic work, and I want to acknowledge them and thank them for their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a real pleasure to rise and speak to this Charities Amendment Bill, and I want to acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan, for her shepherding of this bill. The Minister has a really long history of working in this sector, so she understands it well, and I\u2019m delighted, therefore, that she gets to progress this bill on behalf of the Government. I also want to acknowledge our Internal Affairs team who gave us the advice; the Parliamentary Counsel Office team for their drafting; and our clerks who organised the whole running of this process so that everyone was where they should be at the time, that technology worked, and that the process ran smoothly. They spent many hours facilitating this work so our submitters could be heard. And what great submitters they were\u2014and the submissions we received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EMy thanks go to the many charities, the peak bodies, and the individuals who submitted. We received 95 submissions and heard 28 oral submissions. As a result of what we had heard, we made some really significant changes to the bill as presented at first reading. I want to acknowledge those who took the time to give us their feedback, because I think this is how democracy works. We heard the feedback, and we accordingly made some significant changes. Many of us here across the House have volunteered for charities. I myself ran a charity for five years, and I\u2019ve also been in the service clubs, and many of us\u2014as the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan said\u2014on the select committee have had a history of service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI can assure the House tonight that we took this bill extremely seriously. In fact, when we talk about changes that we made, there are 28,000 charities we know in the community, and one of the changes we made directly affects tier 4 charities. Those are the charities that have less than $140,000 per annum. That\u2019s half of those charities. At the very least, 14,000 are affected by this piece of legislation, so I\u2019m really delighted to speak to this bill. We\u2019ve made some practical improvements to make it easier for charities to continue their work. It increases the transparency by improving access to justice and enables simpler financial reporting for those smaller charities. So these are the 14,000 charities that I\u2019m talking about, the 14,000 charities who will have an easier or simpler process for reporting. And that is in order to reduce the red tape, it is in order to support those charities who are run often by the smell of an oily rag and who are also having, perhaps, difficulties with retention of people who are volunteering their time. So it is one of those areas where I\u2019m particularly pleased that we were able to alter the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced\u2014we\u2019ve put in place a number of changes to that legislation. My time is running short, so I\u2019m going to quickly run through the list of the things we heard from our submitters and then changed in the bill, and basically that is as a response to the scrutiny and the feedback from the members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EClause 20 of the bill inserts new section 42G, requiring an annual review of governance procedures by charities. We removed the annual review and put it in at three-yearly. That was our response. The work still needs to be done. The review to ensure that a charity is performing its charitable function still needs to occur, but once every three years as opposed to annually. So we listened to that feedback. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EChange two: the term \u201Cofficer\u201D was too broad. We had lots of submissions that spoke to us: was a cultural adviser an officer? Was someone who was doing tasks for the charity considered an officer? So we inserted into the legislation the term \u201Csignificant influence\u201D so that we basically ensure that there is more than just significant influence. So we said they have to have significant influence and exert powers over the strategic, financial, and operational decisions of a charity. So we define the \u201Cofficer\u201D as a person who holds that significant influence, and it is important that we did that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThere are many other things that we did in this piece of legislation. I recommend the member who resumed her seat, Penny Simmonds, has a read of the legislation and actually looks to what we have changed. It is significant. It is worthy; 40,000 charities are affected. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00226fc27993bda74b8db1b86b1739997e67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fc27993bda74b8db1b86b1739997e67\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to start my address today by acknowledging the 28,000 charities across New Zealand who make New Zealand work by supporting individuals, supporting families, supporting communities, and providing social cohesion in so many, many different ways. What the charities sector deserve when they provide over $4 billion worth of value to New Zealand is to have legislation that is workable. They deserve to have legislation that makes it easier for them to provide the service to New Zealanders that they provide each and every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThey deserve to have a Labour Government who delivers on the promises it makes, and a 2017 election promise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296c9ee3c4ae94aedba1cf6264faa8706\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014they do. They deserve a Labour Government\u2014they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225778406f23f44133afc701452676f44b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Just quieten down, over there. You might want to listen to what you actually promised in 2017, because you promised the charities sector a comprehensive, first-principles review. That is why the charities sector\u2014the dozens and dozens and dozens of organisations that took the time to sit before us and submit on this legislation\u2014are frustrated. They feel let down, they feel ripped off, and they didn\u2019t get what Labour promised in 2017. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to bring the words of some of the submitters to this House. So, rather than using my words, I want to bring some of their words, because these are organisations like Age Concern, who said, \u201CAge Concern New Zealand would like to see a first principles review of the Act carried out by an independent body such as the Law Commission.\u201D What charities want to see with that first-principles review is a revisiting of the definitions of charity and charitable purpose. That\u2019s at the heart of what they are wanting to see in terms of this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Breast Cancer Foundation New Zealand\u2014which is particularly important this week, as I think of a dear friend of mine and a family member\u2014also want a first-principles review. They\u2019re concerned about the impact on charities in New Zealand of these changes. Community Housing Aotearoa: \u201CWe continue to emphasize the need for an independent review of the Charities Act. Many of the concerns our members have with regards to how the definition of charity is being interpreted has not being addressed through this amendment bill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ECharitable organisations are incredibly frustrated. On the one hand, they have the Government, which is speaking to them through the Ministry of Social Development and through the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment of a relationship model to commissioning, and yet, on the other hand, Charities Services is now being seen instead as a registrar and as a regulator. So what is it, Labour? Do we trust them, or do we not? Do we want to understand and enable them, or do we not? Do we want to put more regulations in the way that prevent them from doing their work, or do we want to support their work and support them to do more of it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis one, from Community Networks Aotearoa, represents many peak organisations such as Presbyterian Support New Zealand, the D.V. Bryant Trust, my own Taupo Council of Social Services, Neighbourhood Support, and the list goes on: \u201CWe wish to emphasise that there needs to be a first principles review of the Act. This is best done by an independent body to ensure comprehensiveness and integrity of the process and to ensure there are no conflicts of interest. We have been promised this for some years, and we believe that the majority of the Charitable Sector wish for this review.\u201D What\u2019s more disturbing, though, is a paragraph a little bit further on: \u201CWe would really appreciate a more positive view of the amazing community and voluntary sector. Where the first point of view is that all this extra regulation is not needed. But that this Sector is recognised and supported into a trusting and participatory environment with the Government.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m not quite sure why members opposite were laughing at that, because I do take the concerns that these people raise very seriously. They are the ones\u2014they are the volunteers, they are the organisations\u2014that work tirelessly up and down this country. I would challenge any member opposite to say that they don\u2019t value their work and to actually listen to the voice of the charitable organisations who are frustrated\u2014frustrated\u2014by the Government not delivering what they promised in 2017. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EActually, what they then say is that the tinkering isn\u2019t worth it, and the frustration at not having the first-principles review frustrates a sector who already operate on the smell of an oily rag. So I don\u2019t think it was too much for them to get what they were promised delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another one, from Philanthropy New Zealand\u2014again, a peak body organisation involved in significant organisations, with over 200 members who give donations and bequests to these many organisations. They \u201Csupport and advocate for the need for a first principles review of the Charities Act \u2026 as per the commitment made by the Government in its election manifesto. This would offer the chance to consider the value and purpose of the charitable sector, the value charities add to people\u2019s lives, the environment and the economy, and how the government can best support the sector in its work.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo it is frustrating, and I accept that the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee has talked about some of the tweaks that have been made as a result of the select committee process, but the fundamental issue is that this is not a first-principles review. Tinkering at the edges doesn\u2019t provide the transformational change that Labour promised them. It\u2019s one example of many, unfortunately, where what they thought they were getting is very different from reality, and many of them have actually said, \u201CLook, just take it back. Take it back, start again. We\u2019re patient. We want it to work. We don\u2019t want piecemeal change, because for our organisation, those levels of changes potentially take us backwards. There\u2019s a huge amount of work and energy and cost in implementing changes. Can we just do it properly and can we just do it right?\u201D, which is what Labour promised and hasn\u2019t delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThat is why people are so, so frustrated in the communities sector, and my colleague Maureen Pugh has been working with the community and voluntary sector for many, many years and has been hearing their frustration at the Government, because, actually, they didn\u2019t think that they were asking for much. They didn\u2019t think they were asking for much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo the National Party, clearly, are not supporting this bill. We think it\u2019s fundamentally flawed, because that is what the charitable sector have said for themselves. We\u2019ve listened, we\u2019ve reflected, and I\u2019m very deliberately bringing their voices to this Parliament tonight because they don\u2019t feel as if they\u2019ve been heard and I think it\u2019s important that they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe National Party support the call of the majority of the submitters in the charitable sector who have asked for the bill to be withdrawn, for the comprehensive review to be undertaken, and then for legislation to come before the Parliament once those issues have been surfaced by an independent review. That\u2019s another point that I do think is important: they do want it to be independent. So, at the moment, the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) is responsible for Charities Services. An independent review means that the work done on policy shouldn\u2019t be done by DIA; it should be done by someone independent. The Law Commission is one that\u2019s been suggested, and that\u2019s what the charitable sector would be expecting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe do actually see that piecemeal change like this produces more harm than good. For a sector where many of them\u2014whether it\u2019s organisations like SuperGrans, who I\u2019ve met with tonight, or whether it is organisations working with victims of family violence\u2014are working with vulnerable New Zealanders, we owe it to them to make it as easy as possible for them to do their work and to have a Government that delivers what they promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo we will be opposing this legislation. We\u2019re opposing it on behalf of the charities sector, and we bring their voice to this Parliament tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00229a31fe06c07a4b34b63f47b894c36a68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a31fe06c07a4b34b63f47b894c36a68\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to speak on the Charities Amendment Bill. I disagree with the last speaker, the Hon Louise Upston. She spoke about this bill creating more harm. Well, I totally disagree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI am a member of a charity, and I want to acknowledge the 28,000 charities and all the important work that they do, particularly the volunteers in charities. Like I said, I\u2019m involved in a charity\u2014Radio Tonga of Aotearoa\u2014and we are all volunteers. One of the changes that submitters have told us\u2014all 95 submitters told us\u2014is that they wanted to ease the burden on small charities, in terms of financial compliance. I can tell the House that I have been a treasurer of the PACIFICA women\u2019s organisation, and it takes a long time to complete all this compliance that needs to be done. So this change that we\u2019re bringing in is allowing the regulator, allowing the chief executive, to reduce very small charities\u2019 compliance, in terms of reporting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAnother change that we\u2019re bringing along: when the bill was first tabled, it required charities to review their governance procedures just to see if their charitable purpose was still according to their first charitable purpose. The bill had said \u201C1 year\u201D. Submitters said that one year was too short, and that a lot of work needed to be done to get that submitted. So we listened to submitters. In the bill as now amended, we\u2019ve amended it to \u201C3 years\u201D so that charities will now have three years to look at their governance procedures and to make amendments to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to also talk about these practical, bold changes as something that will, in my experience as a treasurer, as a secretary\u2014and I deliberately, for one of the organisations that I am in, chose not to hold a position, in terms of an officer, because I know there is a lot of paperwork that needed to be done. So, obviously, this bill also defines the word \u201Cofficer\u201D, in terms of a charity. So even though, let\u2019s just say, for myself, I am a trustee of Radio Tonga of Aotearoa\u2014even though I don\u2019t hold a position as a secretary or treasurer\u2014I am still one person that makes significant decisions in this charity. So that will encapsulate me as one of those decision makers, holding me accountable for decisions made by the trust that I currently am part of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhat the bill does is it also enables the charities to review the decisions made by the chief executive. What that means is that there is a list\u2014I can\u2019t remember it at the moment; doesn\u2019t come to mind\u2014that also identifies that, if the regulator or if the chief executive has made a decision about a charity and removes their charitable purpose, removes their status, the charity can actually\u2014it widens the scope for them to review that decision made by the chief executive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAlso one of the things that it does is look at the best-practice guidance, clearly defined. Lots has been said about what submitters have said in terms of the first principle, but what we did hear is that the submitters did agree to some of the changes that the bill had set out. I want to acknowledge the submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EOf course, I am a member the Social Services and Community Committee. I want to acknowledge our chair, Angie Warren-Clark, who does a really good job. We\u2019re a really good committee. She enables us to have a point of view, and I think that\u2019s what committee chairs need to do: allow members to voice their opinions. I want to also acknowledge the leadership of the Minister, the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan, for shepherding this bill into the House, bringing all her experiences into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAgain, I want to point to the fact that part of this bill is about empowering the regulator to ease financial reporting for very small charities, which will reduce their compliance, enabling them to continue with the much-needed work that they do. I commend the Charities Amendment Bill to the House. M\u0101l\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u00222c876594b0104056b7e8dda476196f84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c876594b0104056b7e8dda476196f84\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of ACT for the second reading of this bill. ACT supported this bill to the Social Services and Community Committee because changes in this area of law are quite infrequent, and the sector has been hoping for change, as promised six years ago. The select committee did indeed provide that opportunity for many charities and organisations and stakeholders to make submissions and to get in touch with MPs throughout the process and afterwards, and I thank those that spoke to me during and following that process; it was extremely helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EGiven changes in the sector don\u2019t come by often, many expressed a sense of excitement following Labour\u2019s 2017 policy and its manifesto to undertake a first-principles post-implementation review, which would, ultimately, lead to changes to the Charities Act, which could, in theory, be welcomed in the charities sector, and that those charities would be heard from throughout the process. As we\u2019ve heard tonight, that review has not happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAs this is seldomly looked at by Parliament, it is understandable that people will be worried that unresolved issues in this bill could be enduring and damaging to their sector. So, unfortunately, while changes do need to take place, this bill is not it, and ACT will be opposing it from here on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ESo submissions to the select committee did not give me a great deal of confidence in either the process of the drafting of the bill or the depth of consultation, nor the consideration of potential unintended consequences. Many submitters who got in touch with me spoke of their frustrations. As has been mentioned by other members, the regulatory impact statement noted inadequate consultation and evidence, which is surprising, given how long these changes, or the background of these changes, have been in the works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThe role of Charities Services was also a topic of discussion. Many expressed a concern that there\u2019s a bit too much advocacy and campaigning, perhaps even political to an extent, rather than just supporting charities with a light touch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EAnother concern is that the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) might have been a bit heavy-handed, that they might have strong-armed the process, whether that\u2019s in their advice to the Government, their advice to the select committee, or being an overall imposition on charities conducting their activities lawfully. Moreover, some stakeholders felt that DIA officials put walls up until decisions had already been made, time and time again, making it a difficult process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EThe bigger picture is that the regulatory environment is becoming more complex and more controlling, making the jobs of those in charities more and more difficult. In order to thrive and be productive, charities ultimately need less bureaucracy. They need to be able to get on with what they do best: providing essential services to the communities that depend on them\u2014often to provide systems significantly better than the Government, I might add. What they don\u2019t need is Government interfering too much, and this bill is a case of that, with agencies making decisions with little accountability to the charitable sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003ECertain concerns have not been addressed, notably the supposed benefits of the bill in the explanatory notes\u2014for example, reducing financial reporting\u2014and I just don\u2019t buy it. This idea of reducing red tape\u2014it just doesn\u2019t make sense. It appears that it is distracting from the true intentions behind the scenes. New regulations don\u2019t actually make life easier for charities, and these definition issues are still outstanding. Charities won\u2019t thrive with the heavy-handed, unelected officials calling the shots and looking at them with suspicion from the outset. Further, I feel that the three-year review process is arguably just going to pay lip service to the DIA and not be particularly effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003EWhat the sector needs is a move towards more independence, including in its oversight. If reform isn\u2019t forthcoming, then the Government should focus on the law that\u2019s already there: that everyone in a charity has a requirement to act in good faith and for the benefit of their communities. In the absence of well-consulted and well-crafted law changes, the Government should just step back, stop trying to micromanage charities, and let them get on with doing what they do best within existing regulations. So we\u2019re opposing this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002281b3ee76d4094406b01db0da7910bf64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281b3ee76d4094406b01db0da7910bf64\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call on behalf of the Green Party on the Charities Amendment Bill second reading. I\u2019m new to this piece of legislation, I have to admit. I didn\u2019t have the privilege of sitting through the Social Services and Community Committee to hear the submissions, and so I\u2019ve been trying to do catch-up. To be perfectly honest, I\u2019m not sure I\u2019m fully there yet. Hopefully I will be as the bill progresses. I do want to say I\u2019ve heard two very, very different views expressed from the Government side and the National and ACT parties. And on my reading of it, it\u2019s possibly somewhere in the middle from what I can see at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo I do just firstly want to acknowledge the important role of\u2014the language I like is\u2014community organisations. I find \u201Ccharity\u201D a bit slightly triggering of Victorian values and some model of the wealthy doing good to others, which I know is not inherent in it but that\u2019s kind of the history of that word for me that I don\u2019t like, so I tend to think of the community and voluntary sector and tangata whenua sector. They play an incredibly important role in our society. I think that has been acknowledged by everyone, and they are very, very different. It\u2019s important that they are different because that ecosystem is the best way we have of ensuring different peoples\u2019 needs are able to be met. And central government is never going to be able to form a relationship with people in the way that our community and voluntary sector and tangata whenua organisations can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen it again and again through COVID and recently through the adverse storms and the cyclones. These organisations were the people that stepped in and kept people afloat. We know from research that was launched recently around the state of the sector that they are really, really struggling at the moment. What\u2019s come through in terms of the survey is increased stress, a sense of overwhelm around the increase in demand and need of their services and help, and no increase in funding for many of those organisations or in some cases actually a reduction in funding. And the kind of complexity of the issues that people are struggling with has just changed fundamentally from what it was 20 years ago, and people are desperately trying to keep up. They are way more nimble than Government agencies can be in terms of being able to do that response, but the staff in the organisations are really anxious and stressed at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI hear from the Government members but actually leaning in on the point that this legislation provides the ability for the chief executive to offer an exemption on financial reporting for those smaller organisations. I specifically want to talk to the value of those smaller organisations, and particularly we know that M\u0101ori organisations often have struggled to build the relationships and get the funding from central government because of the compliance involved in the application process and the red tape. But yet they\u2019re the ones that hold the most precious relationships, right? I\u2019ve heard, actually, in another jurisdiction, somebody who was a commissioner overseeing all the family violence work who pointed out that in their view what they saw was that organisations who were competent and able to win tenders for funding contracts were the least competent and capable in delivering the change that was needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation, actually, is part of that puzzle, because we have professionalised our expectations of the community and voluntary sector in a way that has privileged large organisations. It\u2019s interesting, really, hearing from the National Party in terms of this bill when they have been so complicit in that process over many years of starting to privilege more and more larger organisations, wanting to deal with fewer organisations because that made Government\u2019s job cheaper and easier, and now to hear them singing the praises of the smaller organisations and the need to listen to them was kind of jarring for me, to be honest, but maybe they\u2019ve learnt\u2014maybe they\u2019ve learnt! Ha, ha! That would be nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo I do want to say: so this enabling the exemption around financial reporting is a positive thing because that helps get those organisations to be able to build that relationship and recognise the value of that work. However, giving the charities commission the ability to review, and requiring agencies to review their governance structure every 3 years\u2014I\u2019m not convinced that that helps us get to that place around enabling organisations to do things in the best way for them and not building more compliance on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge as well that from the submitters the very strong call\u2014and I suspect it\u2019s jarring for the Government members, but that point about a lot of the submitters calling for the delivery on that first-principle review, and that\u2019s because, in particular, the way our legislation is set up and its relationship with advocacy is deeply problematic. We\u2019ve increasingly had analysis coming from the community that we\u2019ve been imposing kind of business models that work in the corporate sector on to tangata whenua and community and voluntary sectors that have traditionally had very, very different ways of working that actually are not improved by imposing corporate business models.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EActually, being able to see a need and respond in partnership with others with far more flexibility\u2014and I point to, I think, an op-ed by Denis O\u2019Reilly talking about some of the experiences in the 1970s and the comparison to now for people who are wanting to think about some of those issues. I\u2019m not harking back to the 1970s, I can\u2019t remember them myself. Ha, ha! I certainly wasn\u2019t working in the sector back in that day. I may look like it some days! But I do think he makes some good points and there is an increasing kind of sense of need to critique the control from central government of community organisations and asking \u201CIs that helping them to do what they need to do or not?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAlso Social Service Providers Aotearoa\u2014to pick up from their submission. They were centring the importance of that review actually fully embedding Te Tiriti o Waitangi at the heart of legislation, governing the practices of charities in Aotearoa New Zealand and to ensure Treaty principles are integrated within charities legislation. That is something that the Green Party would really support, and it is a shame that after this time we\u2019re not at that point at the moment. I do call for the need for that work and to go back out to our communities and get to kind of the heart about how can the sector thrive and what support can we offer to ensure the sector thrives, as opposed to how do we ensure compliance and confidence in terms of people donating money. That doesn\u2019t feel to me like that\u2019s the central question. The central question for the Greens is: actually, how do we support these organisations to do the incredibly important work that they do, and that to be front and centre? So, on that note, we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220a8b4245d6a4438b9fb58c776f380a12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a8b4245d6a4438b9fb58c776f380a12\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Charities bring people together who want to make a difference, who, through a whole range of initiatives, can come together and support things that need good volunteers. Never have I seen more of this than in the past 12 weeks in Hawke\u2019s Bay, where charities have played a huge role in helping people through Cyclone Gabrielle. Just last Friday night, I went to Nourished for Nil, which is a charity that started back in 2017, where I was there the very day that they started. They repurpose all the food and give it out so it doesn\u2019t go to waste. On this Friday night, there were 300 food boxes given out\u2014a regular Friday night\u2014and there was an amazing team from the 80-strong volunteers who were working the distribution network on this Friday. It just showed what can be enabled through having a vision and a purpose and bringing a lot of people together. Now, many of these volunteers are retirees who want to be kept connected and doing something good for their community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EEarlier that week, I had another opportunity to go and visit Christian Lovelink. Christian Lovelink delivers household goods to people in need, and during Cyclone Gabrielle they have now repurposed donated household items to refurnish people who needed new homes or temporary accommodation to go into since being displaced. These are just two of examples in Hawke\u2019s Bay alone of the many, many charities who work very hard, and they need to have legislation that also enables them to do their work well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003ENow, this bill talks about getting rid of red tape, and a lot of it is practical support that can be given to smaller charities. It\u2019s those charities that sometimes can get bogged down in much of the bureaucratic stuff that can hold people back. So I think, from having listened to the many speeches tonight, that the practical changes that are being made in this bill are worth it, and I\u2019d like to again say thank you to all the charities and all the volunteers who give so much to make a real difference in the work they do for others. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3ea3215c0394691bf6d11a154115506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3ea3215c0394691bf6d11a154115506\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Watts\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022701e137388b944ea9d53482a24d3f176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022701e137388b944ea9d53482a24d3f176\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to talk on the Charities Amendment Bill second reading. We\u2019ve transcended a number of perspectives this evening in regards to this legislation, starting off with the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector, who articulated a very positive and optimistic overview in terms of the select committee process that can only be described\u2014listening to the contributions from the Hon Louise Upston and my colleague Penny Simmonds\u2014as being on another planet. Because the reality is, when you read the responses provided by the charities that made submissions on this bill, the narrative that we are hearing in the House from the other side in regards to this bill could not be further from the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd that is a great shame, because the charity sector is a significantly important sector. The member for Tukituki, who just outlined the role which they have and continue to play in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, is absolutely right: they do do that. Before coming to Parliament, I had the pleasure of sitting on the Diabetes New Zealand trustee board, overseeing Diabetes New Zealand and the role which they play across our communities, across this country\u2014and, as we know, diabetes is a significant illness that impacts a huge number of individuals, whether they\u2019re type 1 or type 2. But what I saw in that role as a trustee, at a national level but also in the Auckland branch, was the huge amount of contribution and outcomes that the charitable sector do provide to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt is without doubt that the charitable sector have the ability to open doors that no other agency, whether it\u2019s central or local government, can achieve, and they do so quite simply because they understand the people which they support. Many of the people who volunteer on these charitable organisations have a life experience or have an association, or may also have a disease or illness, for which the charity stands. And with that knowledge and understanding, they have the ability to connect with our communities in a way which derives significant value and gets better outcomes. I can only hope that we really leverage what I see as untapped potential in the charitable sector more, and actually see them alongside the delivery of core services to our communities at the same level at which we often place our central government agencies and others. I think there is a significant role for them to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe challenges, really, in this bill, which have been widely canvassed, relate to the fact that the bill as it stands is not fit for purpose. It is not going to deal with the underlying issues that the charitable sector themselves made submissions back to the Social Services and Community Committee on. It is a great shame when our democratic process does not enable the provision of the feedback being correlated and translated into an improved bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3110205484d4a798963052c2d6d7292\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Have a look at the changes we incorporated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274043f171924f73a70c89e0affc7c9c\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear some comments coming from the other side. Maybe they were part of the select committee. I doubt it, because if they were, they would know that exactly what I\u2019m saying is actually the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d288970405b467cb7c4bd7247baa402\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Have a look at the changes we\u2019ve incorporated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b595e75f46441e0b78a8b7118e90b48\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: And you can hear them continuing to talk, can\u2019t you? You can hear them continuing to talk there, can\u2019t you? Very, very interesting, when we reflect back on Hansard, what those comments were. But they will be in writing, now that I\u2019ve referenced them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo I think we need to reflect on what needs to be done, and that is a proper review of the sector, following through with what the sector has been calling for, ensuring that we do take a genuine approach in order to make improvements in regards to this bill. A future National-led Government will no doubt pick up the pieces of the failure by this Government to make meaningful change in an area and a sector that is so critically important to our country\u2019s success and which I think epitomises the best of our country in regards to the people who play in that. I think it is very disappointing that this evening we are passing a bill that will not deliver value and outcomes for our communities, but I am in hope that in 155 days we will see a change in Government and we\u2019ll have an opportunity to put this right. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u00224c90639c677349a0b2e4e2b64363555c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c90639c677349a0b2e4e2b64363555c\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Charities Amendment Bill. I hope you will indulge me if I first acknowledge the terrible hurt that is currently being felt in my community as it is the community of Newtown. As the MP for Whang\u0101rei, I want to acknowledge my people who have lived, in the last four weeks, through the loss of four of our young people. I want to acknowledge the wh\u0101nau. I want to acknowledge our extraordinary first responders. I have to say, at this moment, my town is submerged in grief. And I want to particularly acknowledge at this moment the community of Raumanga and of Ruak\u0101k\u0101. Raumanga were the first to lose a young person, and Ruak\u0101k\u0101 are the most recent, and the weight of that grief is very heavy on my people at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EAnd it is some of that grief that charities in our community will be helping to alleviate\u2014charities like the Bream Bay Coastal Care Trust, charities who, as my colleague and friend Angie Warren-Clark remarked, live on the smell of an oily rag. I grew up on the back of such a charity. My mother opened the Miriam Centre, a child abuse and family crisis centre, about 35 years ago, and I quite literally grew up between my mother\u2019s back office and my father\u2019s back office in the family law firm down the road. I know how hard it is for these small organisations to manage the regulatory responsibilities they have while they are trying to do the mahi in the community. It is not necessarily in the skill set of those running a charity, who are trying to get out and do the work of helping people and raising them up, to have to bear the weight of regulation and reporting. These are charities, and as my friends and colleagues have said, about half of them are the small ones. About 14,000 of the 28,000-odd charities we have in New Zealand are the small ones, and it is difficult for them to bear the regulatory load. And that is where this bill comes in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve heard, again and again through the night, the criticisms coming in from the Opposition. I guess when you\u2019re not in the position of having to do stuff, it\u2019s very easy to throw stones. But the point is we are trying to do something, and as a wise person once said to me, the enemy of getting anything done is trying to get it perfect. Never let the fact that something is not all-encompassing bells and whistles stand in the way of the fact that it is a darn good thing that will make multiple important changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI want to thank the officials for the work they put in\u2014as a member of the Social Services and Community Committee, I saw the blood, sweat, and tears they put into this bill\u2014and, most of all, the submitters who made so many good and helpful suggestions, which we have done our best to incorporate. I want to point out to all of them that when we did our work, we did it with a deep understanding of the difficulties, the real-life struggles of running a charity. When you have, as your chair, a woman who ran Women\u2019s Refuge for about nine-odd years, when you have Anahila, who has also been involved in charities for more years than I can count, and when your Minister herself is a member of so many charities, believe me, you have the depth of experience with which to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo the things that, very briefly, we are doing here are to remove regulation. They will reduce the reporting requirements, they make it easier to seek legal redress without having to go to the High Court, and they do a range of things that will make a real, tangible difference to the work of people who are incredibly necessary to our community, to my community. I look forward to taking Angie Warren-Clark and Minister Deb Russell to several of them next week to talk about the important work of charities in my community, and we will be able to talk to them about the improvements we have made to their work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca8164defadc4d85911662ef9c258add\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca8164defadc4d85911662ef9c258add\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve enjoyed hearing the speeches, albeit some in debate, about this particular bill before us this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003ECharities are a core component of a well-functioning society, and when I think about my community on the North Shore and Northcote and Beach Haven and Birkdale, I think about the number of voluntary, charitable organisations that do the hard work on the ground. I look back to the work that was completed over the COVID-19 pandemic, the groups that got out on the ground, delivered food to families in very difficult circumstances, and who helped vaccination sites across the country lift our immunisation rates. I think about the people in this room, and just looking at my colleagues, not only do we have people that have worked voluntarily in their church organisations, we mentioned Women\u2019s Refuge, in chairing community houses, in community justice organisations, and in local marae. We certainly have a good wealth of experience of not only people that have run charitable organisations, managed them, but also acted as volunteers for many, many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI have the privilege of chairing the Birkdale Beach Haven Community Project. Our core line of business is about running facilities that are available for community groups for free, in most circumstances\u2014for young people and children to come and host events there, for mums\u2019 groups to come and meet there, for our new migrants to share in Aotearoa New Zealand experiences. Those are the hubs of our community. We also do the outreach, of course, and I think to a major project that our organisation runs, which is Community Eats, which focuses on the redistribution of kai across the community, both in those that are giving and those that are distributing back out to the community. Those are the types of initiatives that we want to enable and we want to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EBut I know, as the chair, in a very detailed way, the heavy load that our small team carries in order to both deliver the work that they need to on the ground but also maintain the administrative and operational background that they need to and the challenges of sometimes complex situations, to manage the regulatory expectations and the compliance expectations of both funding of council, so on and so forth, not to mention the charitable responsibilities that they have under what is the current Charities Act 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003ENow, we know that the sector overall is incredibly diverse, it\u2019s nimble, and about 28,000 organisations are registered nationally. My understanding, from the information that I have read, and I wasn\u2019t a part of the select committee hearing, but of that 14,000, effectively half of that will benefit from the changes that we make through this legislation this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThis bill includes the provisions to enable reduced financial reporting requirements for very small charities, just like the ones that I spoke to this evening, to mitigate the compliance burden; to clarify who an officer is and their role; and measures to improve the governance. It is very challenging, in many small organisations, to establish good governance groups, people that are prepared to do it on a voluntary basis and able to mostly commit the time that is needed to make these organisations effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThe bill will also clarify and improve compliance and enforcement under the Act and increase the transparency and fairness of regulatory decision-making by the Chief Executive of the Department of Internal Affairs and the Charities Registration Board, and, lastly, to introduce a similar appeals mechanism by empowering the Taxation Review Authority to hear appeals under the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation makes steps to lifting some of the compliance responsibilities on 14,000 very small charitable organisations. Let\u2019s be charitable this evening to them. Let\u2019s lighten some of their workload. I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00229dcac38ba8d04279adb27f915d02e347\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dcac38ba8d04279adb27f915d02e347\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise and address the House as the last speaker for the National Party, in opposition to this Charities Amendment Bill. Before I move on to speak to the specifics of the bill in the debate this evening, it is appropriate to acknowledge the deceased of Loafers Lodge here in Wellington, their families, the first responders, Fire and Emergency New Zealand, the police, St John Ambulance, the hospital workers, and also those charitable organisations that have mobilised around that community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESecondly, I also acknowledge those acknowledgments that have been made in the House this evening in terms of tragedies that have occurred in the local communities that we all come from. Cyclone Gabrielle, the adverse weather events, the recent death of the young man up in Whang\u0101rei and the other young persons, and also acknowledging, again, the efforts and charity of our charitable organisations and communities that mobilise and wrap around in support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EMy third acknowledgment this evening, because those earlier ones have tended to address a socio-economic demographic of our most vulnerable communities\u2014I now move to acknowledge the other end of the spectrum: Dame Rosie Horton, who gave a lifetime of service and commitment in the charitable fundraising philanthropic area of her life. She died earlier this week and it is appropriate to accordingly acknowledge her for her service, because the contribution that was made there meant that there were many in those most vulnerable communities who benefited from her efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E I now turn to address the bill and the debates in the House this evening. When I spoke to this bill at the first reading on 28 September last year, I commenced my speech by stating, \u201Ccharity begins at home\u201D. It\u2019s really important that the Government take heed of it because the meaning of \u201Ccharity begins at home\u201D is that those in a position of responsibility first and foremost address the very people that they are meant to care most about. Earlier in the debate this evening, my colleague Penny Simmonds, as the first speaker for the National Party, spoke very forthrightly and robustly. However, I heard from the Government benches nothing but a rabble raucous retort of what is rational debate. Such behaviour and conduct is uncharitable. We need to focus, importantly, on the substance of the debate, and not target the debater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo I turn, now, to the bill. This bill came before the scrutiny of the Social Services and Community Committee. It was introduced into the House on 21 September last year and then referred to the select committee on 28 September. The Minister Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan was invited to provide an initial briefing to the committee on the bill, and she did so on 9 February 2023. Submissions were called for and there was only a month for those submissions to be made from a sector that represents 28,000\u201428,000\u2014registered charities. Now, those are registered charities\u2014there are numerous other charitable organisations that aren\u2019t registered, so we\u2019re looking much wider in scope. There were 95 interested groups and individuals who made submissions and oral evidence was heard from 28 submitters in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ENow, what\u2019s been very interesting is some of the contributions from the Government benches this evening. I have found it rather patronising when we hear that there is a Minister and perhaps three other members of the Labour Government sitting on this select committee who come from the experience of working in this sector. I certainly acknowledge that, but that should not displace the views and the representation of those 28,000 registered charitable organisations in this country as having lesser meaning, effect, impact, and substance\u2014and that is, effectively, what this Government has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe National Party has filed a minority view, and the substance of that minority view is premised on the views of those submitters representing the majority of those 28,000 registered charitable organisations and many non-registered charitable organisations. So the National Party, again despite some of the contributions from members in the House because of political orientations that go with it\u2014what I emphasise in this House this evening is that the National Party take heed and listen to the sector most affected and most impacted by legislation that comes before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESubmissions: written and oral. I quote Sue Barker, who is a specialist charities lawyer and member of the core reference group for the review of the Charities Act. \u201CThe Government has no mandate to pass this Bill. The Bill represents a broken manifesto promise\u201D\u2014heard that before\u2014\u201Cand does nothing to meet its stated objective to \u2018support charities to continue their vital contribution to community wellbeing\u2019 \u2026 It is a sad indictment on our democracy that policy\u201D\u2014in other words, the Government officials from the Department of Internal Affairs who have driven the shaping, the structure, the content of this Charities Amendment Bill, that their advice has been accepted \u201Cwithout critical examination\u201D. So \u201CIt is a sad indictment on our democracy that policy is effectively being set by an unelected and largely unaccountable bureaucracy, while the fundamental concerns that the vast bulk of the charitable sector are consistently ignored.\u201D So important that the public is aware of this\u2014\u201Ca sad indictment on our democracy\u201D. This is something that New Zealand has experienced time and time again from this Government, and here we have that again repeated in this Charities Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EMy colleagues have addressed those members who were on the select committee, which I wasn\u2019t on at that time\u2014have addressed the detail of the bill. There\u2019s a significant section within the Charities Act itself that is not being addressed within this amendment bill: section 5, which is the very definition of charitable organisation\u2014what is a charity? That has been totally dispensed with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the other point that I make is that not only were there those 95 written submissions, 28 oral submissions, there had been extensive public consultation in 2019 with engagement of 1,200 people at that time\u2014the online presentation was viewed 650 times and there were 364 written submissions at that time. Again, the feedback from the community: those persons representing and advocating for the 28,000 registered charities in New Zealand, their views were dispensed with because it would seem that the Minister and those members from the Labour Government sitting on the select committee\u2014where the select committee is weighted heavily in favour of the Government, who has the majority say and rule on this\u2014know better than the charities sector of our country. Disappointingly, this bill is going to be passed into law dispensing with the very views of those people who know better\u2014who know best, actually\u2014than this Government. It\u2019s on that basis that the National Party opposes this bill. In conclusion, I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00224232791354bd4789b2ab75e983f599b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224232791354bd4789b2ab75e983f599b1\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. So from budget advice, to animal rescues, to environmental clean-ups, it\u2019s really hard to imagine our communities without charities. And I think it\u2019s really important that they just get on and do what they do best. I think about the work that charitable organisations did during COVID down in Southland. I think it was the really strong connections that they had with the community that meant that they could support so many people with welfare checks, providing food parcels, and making sure that everybody was connected with the services that they needed. But being a registered charity also confers significant financial benefits, and so it\u2019s really important that transparency is retained. And so what this bill does is it makes a number of changes that will ensure that charities can get on and do what they do best, but also be still publicly accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI really want to acknowledge the people that made submissions on the bill. So the Social Services and Community Committee heard 95 submissions and 28 oral submissions, and, as a result, as a committee, we did listen to the advice that those submitters gave us, and we\u2019ve made a number of really practical changes. I just want go through maybe two or three of them. I think the first one was a lot of the submitters raised an issue with the bill, where there was a requirement that charities review their governance procedures annually. I think the point there was to make sure that those procedures meant that the charities were still able to achieve their charitable purposes. But what submitters told us was that annually was too much, and, in particular, for those that were small charities and relying on a handful of volunteers. So, basically, the committee listened, and what we recommended is that that be changed to at least once every three years to give them that time to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EOne of the other things that people talked about was the definition of \u201Cofficer\u201D in the bill, and the fact that it was too broad. So the original definition was anyone who is able to exercise significant influence over the management or administration of the entity. I think what submitters were saying there was that that was a bit too vague, and some of them were concerned that if you had people that were volunteering for the charity, they may be put off because they might have thought that they inadvertently might get caught up in the responsibilities that came with that definition. A number of people also raised that in terms of the implications for cultural advisors. So, again, as a committee, we listened to that, and we recommended changing that definition and making it much more defined and tight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what we recommended changing it to was someone who holds a position within the entity and is able to exercise significant influence over substantial decisions, but also, including in that definition those that had some delegated powers that otherwise would have fallen on the trustees, board, or governing body of the entity. I think the stance is that by making that much more tight, that would get away from a lot of those concerns that those submitters had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWe also recommended a few other changes, and one of them was expanding the range of decisions, made by the chief executive, that charities could object to or appeal, so that that was broader, so that charities, if they disagreed with something, had a wider range of options in which they could make that appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo I think what we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve made some quite practical changes there that mean that charities can get on and do their work, but making sure that they\u2019re still accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think, just before I finish, I would like to just thank charitable organisations for the work that they do. I\u2019m just thinking through the impact. Many in communities down south and across the country rely on charitable organisations at some of the most difficult points in their lives, and so charities are making sure that people can access things like food parcels, budget advice, counselling services\u2014you know, their work is absolutely vital. But I also think, from an environmental perspective, the work that some of those organisations do down in Southland, in terms of organising beach clean-ups, thinking about the predator control, so that we\u2019ve got our unique biodiversity, and all that native tree planting. There\u2019s a lot of work that charitable organisations do, so it\u2019s really important that we have legislation that\u2019s fit for purpose and that can let charitable organisations get on and do that while still being accountable. So I\u2019m very happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002271597fc24e4b4792a9aed0fb10f97ec9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments recommended by the Social Services and Community Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000695\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 74, Noes 44.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002260a15d908c4b4a31bf7d91d33cf342d1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Charities Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000696\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000697\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 74, Noes 44.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228b1f7666d5e46209c288cf27d282f43\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4d04c94b58f4920940e211e06a0482a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022f56e6dc13f024f74b09a2641b0ce0b11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f56e6dc13f024f74b09a2641b0ce0b11\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8aaa160c11043888b97cdd054995aa8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d05e3412bbe4a8e825b2d4dafbd9b42\u0022\u003EHon KIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill is one part of the Government\u2019s work to reduce delays across the entire justice system. Reducing delays in the justice system is critical to ensure New Zealanders can effectively access justice. Some of the ongoing work to address court delays includes increasing the number of judges in the Court of Appeal, the High Court, and the District Court through to 30 June 2025; establishing the Criminal Process Improvement Programme, a judicially led cross-agency programme to reduce backlog in the District Court by establishing best practice in court procedures; and establishing a joint work programme with Te Whatu Ora, the Ministry of Health, and Corrections to address issues around court-ordered forensic reports. This Government has also helped around 93,000 more people access legal aid. The costs of accessing legal aid have been removed, the repayment thresholds have been increased, and interest will no longer be accrued on unpaid legal aid debt. Together with the Family Court Associate, these initiatives aim to increase access to justice and improve the experience and process of court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EDelays in the Family Court can be particularly harmful in the family justice system because of its role in making decisions that affect children, parents, and wh\u0101nau at challenging times in their lives. I just quickly want to pivot to many of the submitters that took time to provide the Justice Committee with their wisdom, their views, their expertise, to assist in the formation of this bill. In particular, there was one gentleman by the name of Paul von Dadelszen. He was the former Deputy Chief Family Court Judge. As a baby just graduated from law school, I took up the role of judge\u2019s clerk, and I had the privilege of working with Paul von Dadelszen and some of the work that he was actually doing on some of these proposals\u2014and that was almost 20-odd years ago. But I note that Judge von Dadelszen\u2014he\u2019s retired now, but he took the time to submit on these bills, to really walk through\u2014and there\u2019s been several iterations over a long period of time\u2014the thinking that had gone in by the judiciary, by practitioners, by the courts at various stages that has resulted in this ultimate outcome, which are the Family Court Associates. But they build on\u2014I guess I just want to highlight the whakapapa by which the introduction of these Family Court Associates has been made into this House and, indeed, law, this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAn accessible Family Court that operates without undue delay is key to a fully functioning family justice system. Significant reforms were made to the Family Court system in 2014, and were intended to help people settle arrangements for the care of their children without having to appear in the Family Court. However, some of these changes led to delays across the Family Court, which had significant negative impact on children, parents, and wh\u0101nau, and exacerbated existing issues already likely in many of those family environments. In 2018, the Government established an independent panel to examine the 2014 reforms and consider the impacts on families and children. The independent panel provided its final report, Te Korowai Ture \u0101-Wh\u0101nau, in 2019, which provided 69 recommendations. The independent panel found that experiences of the family justice system were generally negative and that delay in the resolution of court cases impacts on most areas of the Family Court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe know that delay is a significant factor in undermining trust and confidence in our Family Court. It keeps parents and children in stressful and uncertain situations, and can contribute to deepening parent and wh\u0101nau conflict. There are a large number of children involved in Family Court proceedings. Children exposed to ongoing inter-parental conflict are four times more likely to have social and emotional problems than the general population. Further, some children do not have contact with non-custodial wh\u0101nau for long periods of time while proceedings continue, which can cause relationships to deteriorate and be detrimental to the wellbeing of the child and wh\u0101nau. In some cases, there are long-term, intergenerational impacts, particularly for tamariki M\u0101ori who lose connections to their wh\u0101nau and, by dint, their whakapapa. The impact of delay, of course, is not limited to children. For example, for victims of family violence, court processes can be re-traumatising, and court delays exacerbate and prolong trauma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to addressing these barriers to justice and strengthening the Family Court. The establishment of the Family Court Associate forms one part of a wider long-term programme of work to respond to the independent panel\u2019s recommendations, and are part of the Government\u2019s commitment to address court delays more generally, as I\u2019ve already set out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIn 2020, the Government began its reform based on Te Korowai Ture \u0101-Wh\u0101nau and aimed at better supporting wh\u0101nau through the family justice system. The reforms have included reinstating legal representation in the early stages of Care of Children Act 2004 proceedings in the Family Court, with legal age for eligible parties; providing quality, accessible information for children, parents, and families to help them navigate the family justice system; establishing Kai\u0101rahi\u2014Family Court Navigators\u2014to help parents and wh\u0101nau navigate the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EBriefly on that point, I just want to acknowledge some of the incredible work I\u2019ve seen by those Kai\u0101rahi. I had an experience up in the Manakau court, a couple of months ago now, where I got to meet with those Family Court Navigators, who walked me through what their day-to-day life was. In terms of working with whole family units, I was astounded by the depth and breadth of the way that they form relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EAnd, finally, as a part of this work, we\u2019ve also increased lawyer for child remuneration to incentivise the recruitment and retention of skilled practitioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill responds to one driver of delay identified by the independent panel: the high administrative workload of judges. The panel recommended that a new position be established in the Family Court. The bill establishes the Family Court Associate role to take on some of the workload of the Family Court judges. That will reduce delay up to 25 percent, it is estimated, in terms of time, and assist in improving the process and experience of people participating in Family Court proceedings. This new role will help Family Court judges to progress cases instead of undertaking time-consuming administrative tasks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe Family Court Associate will be a judicial officer with independence from the executive. As a judicial officer, the Family Court Associate can take on tasks currently performed by a registrar, but they can also take on some judicial work that does not require a judge\u2019s expertise or experience but could not be done by a court officer as well. This includes decisions made at early stages of proceedings in interlocutory matters, such as directing parties to undertake dispute resolution, making orders by consent, appointing lawyers, and convening settlement conferences. The Family Court Associate will spend most of their time doing work on the papers, but they will also appear in court for some matters as well. Matters that are complex or have a significant impact on people or human rights will remain with judges, including final decisions that materially affect children, such as guardianship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill also includes a requirement to review the Family Court Associate role to evaluate its effectiveness. Going through the submissions that were made to the select committee, I noted that there were a number of submitters that sought that very sound recommendation to undertake the review to ensure that the role has done what it was intended to do, which is to reduce those delays in the Family Court and also to see whether any amendments would be desirable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge those that worked on this piece of work: the chair of the Justice Committee, Vanushi Walters, and all of the members. And I want to acknowledge, of course, as well, the independent panel for their work, Te Korowai Ture \u0101-Wh\u0101nau, which has indeed informed the creation of the Family Court Associate role. Finally, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc7eac19ed3e447a8c6890d0043df423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc7eac19ed3e447a8c6890d0043df423\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have said all along that where, in the courts portfolio, we have a proposal from Government that we can support because it will improve the lot of those who are going through the system, we will support it. We continue to support this piece of legislation, the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, because we think it is worthwhile. We think it does something that will indeed help to reduce the delays in the court system. So I begin, on that bipartisan note, to explain to the House that National will support this bill at its final reading, and we wish well all those who will be affected by the work of the courts, including the future Family Court Associates themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s fair to place this bill in the context of the efforts that the Government has made in relation to the Family Court these past six years. If we take a step back from that, we should consider the old maxim that justice delayed is justice denied, and, of course, that means different things for different courts. In the criminal court context, we have people who should be presumed innocent until such time as they are proven guilty, held on remand. That places a great strain on the system. We have in a civil context, the perverse incentive for people to delay proceedings and to avoid going to court, in a way that would prejudice the rights of others. And in the Family Court, we have lives that are left in limbo for far too long; we have division crystallised, breakdown exacerbated, in a way that the Minister actually explained, I think, very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo it is common ground, I think, on all sides of politics, that we must speed up our courtroom processes. Sadly, that\u2019s not been the experience of the last six years. To be fair, it\u2019s been a longstanding issue in our New Zealand courts that matters take far too long to be decided. And, of course, that is to the great detriment not only of those working in the system but also, more importantly even than them, those who are innocently involved in matters that take so very long to be disposed of. So the Family Court Associate is, I think, a role that will help. As the Minister has explained, it\u2019s similar to that of a judge, and it\u2019s almost a situation of walking like a judge and quacking like a judge but not, in fact, being a judge, being a judicial officer. And I should explain that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b8266ce0b64cd39649f35696224ddc\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What are these judges up to these days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba51ec5b53a24085b21779c5c06751dd\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I might need to duck for cover, after perhaps putting my non-webbed foot in it, but you get the idea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c15059f89364859b4bb8cd1768d3789\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re getting in a flap!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c144aa3fc64b3997c3b7ada5eda6c3\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: And we don\u2019t even have a Speaker Mallard any more to appreciate these! Anyway, we\u2019ve upgraded, haven\u2019t we, ma\u2019am?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe78a8528384e579abb918995eb18ed\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1e36426e7f4a1d868f5f60c0883e1f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m being encouraged to move on, so I shall. But, actually, there are a number of different constraints that face the Family Court system at the moment, and having a Family Court Associate will help in some of those respects but not in others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESome of the constraints that currently are the cause or a contributing factor to the delays actually won\u2019t be resolved by this. For example, it\u2019s pointed out that the Family Court Associate will have the power to obtain reports such as cultural, medical, psychiatric, and psychological\u2014that\u2019s a worthwhile thing for Associates to do\u2014but, of course, the constraint at the moment exists largely in the unavailability of sufficient numbers of people who are qualified professionals who are willing and able to supply those reports. There are various things that could be done about that, probably outside the scope of this bill, so I won\u2019t traverse those now, but suffice to say that that\u2019s a constraint that isn\u2019t directly addressed by the bill. And any serious reform of the Family Court system must consider such wider factors as that and understand that the Family Court Associate will be operating in very much the same environment as the Family Court judge currently is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOther problems such as self-represented litigants: with all the best will in the world but perhaps less experience and training than qualified lawyers, they do inevitably make life difficult for those working in the system. And I say that not in a way to sound as though people do not have the right to access justice; of course, everyone has the right to access justice. If the system is such and their resources are such that they feel they are best served by self-representing, that\u2019s an indictment on the system more generally. But, again, Family Court Associates will have to deal with that issue as best they can. Again, there are things we can do, but, again, I would suggest that that\u2019s not something we had best litigate, so to speak, in the context of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThese other problems will persist, and so we have, I suppose, in the nature of a band-aid solution\u2014of course, a band-aid can be helpful if the wound is small enough that it will cover it, but I think we shouldn\u2019t pretend to ourselves that this is a more comprehensive solution than it is. And I think we should all feel challenged to provide policy solutions that will actually provide a more comprehensive approach to reforming our courts. If I were to summarise it, I would say that there is a huge administrative burden at the moment. The Family Court Associate role being established by this bill will help, because some 25 percent of the judge\u2019s workload is administrative and the Family Court Associates can do some of that work. But, of course, if we were to remove some of the administrative burden by making the processes more straightforward, more user-friendly, there would be less of that work needed in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn terms of what has happened to this bill since it\u2019s gone through, I think the Justice Committee\u2019s treatment of it was very positive. I think I\u2019m right in saying that the chairmanship passed, during the course of that bill being in front of the select committee, from the Hon Ginny Andersen, as she now is, to Vanushi Walters. May I say that I think the committee, under their leadership, has done a good job of examining what\u2019s needed in the bill, and, as the Minister, the Hon Kiritapu Allan, has rightly and graciously acknowledged, the committee had a certain amount of help from a number of very useful and informed submissions, including former judges, no less. So it\u2019s been a worthwhile exercise to improve the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe changes, which we don\u2019t need to go through in detail, were along the lines of recognising that the Family Court Associate will be a judicial officer, albeit not a judge, but it\u2019s appropriate to provide them some of the protections which, of course, protect the system as a whole, such as saying that they\u2019ll have the same immunity and they can\u2019t be removed for grounds other than the pretty narrow ones on which it\u2019s possible to remove a judge currently: inability, which is pretty tightly defined, or misbehaviour. We don\u2019t want judges or, as I say, Family Court Associates to be able to be removed on the whim of those who might simply dislike the decisions that they reach. So we thought that was appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI say \u201Cwe\u201D; I wasn\u2019t a member of the committee per se. I think I might have attended some of the consideration and the hearings and submissions, but certainly I did my best to familiarise myself with these issues that were being discussed at that level. We saw, as well, at select committee that a Family Court Associate would be able to direct a registrar to appoint a lawyer to assist the court under several Acts. That\u2019s an administrative decision; an important one, but one that\u2019s not necessarily judicial, albeit that it should be exercised in a judicious fashion. So that\u2019s, I think, helpful and, again, along the lines of performing some of those administrative tasks, will be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EEven more arcane than that are a couple of changes made in the Supplementary Order Paper put forward by the Government, which, again, we supported. We thought it was helpful to have the Oath of Allegiance, under the Oaths and Declarations Act, to be required to be taken\u2014I think one \u201Ctakes\u201D an oath\u2014by Family Court Associates, just as with judges. And also there\u2019s a quinquennial review\u2014I think I\u2019m right in saying it\u2019s every five years, but I like using that word anyway, so let\u2019s hope it\u2019s five years! And I don\u2019t know any equivalent names for other ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b8eca91c92c4f4c8e63423112113a91\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2890618d0d48e4b149360fc0f660c3\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: So the quinquennial review timing has been established by Supplementary Order Paper, which, as I say, we supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, with a minute to go, I\u2019ll summarise my comments by saying again that we support this measure. We think it\u2019s helpful in itself. Of course, the question, I suppose, is begged: why not simply appoint more judges? Because a judge can do everything that a Family Court Associate will be able to do\u2014is my understanding\u2014albeit that the reverse doesn\u2019t quite apply. It might be that there are good reasons for that. I mean, there\u2019s currently a cap on the number of judges one can have. I\u2019m not quite sure why; I think that\u2019s something we could all look at. There was actually a lifting of the cap on the number of judges in primary legislation as Budget urgency in a previous year, so perhaps we have that to look forward to in the next 24 hours or so. And I\u2019m keenly looking across the aisle to see if any Labour Party colleagues who might know what\u2019s in the Budget can give any clues with their body language, but I\u2019m getting nothing back. Indeed, I think we might need to wake one of them up before her contribution, but that\u2019s a comment on me, not on any of them. So we supported this bill. We continue to support the bill. It\u2019s a good idea as far as it goes, but more is needed. We support and commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c85589faf9f4ec7b5a2847b5e1091be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c85589faf9f4ec7b5a2847b5e1091be\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022623bfb53c7c84a39bcb67a749c04e613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022623bfb53c7c84a39bcb67a749c04e613\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call. We\u2019re wide awake on this side of the House. And I thought I might just start by responding to some of the comments made by my colleague Chris Penk, but I\u2019ll reassure him that he doesn\u2019t need to duck for cover. I did want to comment on his reference to the very well-known phrase that \u201Cjustice delayed is justice denied\u201D. And that is a very well-known phrase, and I want to begin by thanking some of our submitters, because those are words, but clearly it is felt very differently when you\u2019re going through some of those court processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EAnd whenever I come up against what I consider a key principle of legal process, I\u2019m always a little curious about its history, so I did look to see when this concept of \u201Cjustice delayed is justice denied\u201D came up in history, and it goes all the way back to the 1600s, so it is a really well-embodied piece of our justice system. It wasn\u2019t the only theme that emerged from submitters. Others were the powers of Family Court Associates, the independence of Family Court Associates, the training and experience, ensuring safety in the Family Court system, Te Tiriti o Waitangi obligations, participation, consultation, evaluation, and monitoring as well. So there were really robust submissions, and, once again, I would like to thank our submitters and the Justice Committee for its work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EIn the second reading of this bill, I did make reference to some of our submitters, who included the New Zealand Council of Victim Support. They raised a very important issue, I thought, in regards to the Family Court being used as a tool of abuse. And, of course, this is a bill that responds to that critical issue as well. It is only one part of this Government\u2019s response to this issue. Very recently, Minister Allan did announce that a new bill would be announced to prevent victims of abuse from being further abused or traumatised in the courts as well. We had a number of excellent submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe last one I wanted to acknowledge, was the Disabled Persons Assembly New Zealand for their submission, and they really spoke to the aspects of how the Family Court system doesn\u2019t, in many ways, work for disabled people, but they were also really positive about some of the changes that this bill brings into being\u2014particularly the creation of the Associates. And they submitted that, with the introduction of the newest Associates, there was an opportunity for the courts to look more broadly at disabled people\u2019s experience in the court system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I will leave my contributions there, just only to say that it is wonderful to see that there is broad support across the House for this bill. I do look forward, I hope, to seeing this bill pass this evening. But very much like the Disabled Persons Assembly New Zealand, I look forward to seeing what impact this very new role will have on our court system, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022afcaf6e92533477e9b2a3a2a854aa2d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afcaf6e92533477e9b2a3a2a854aa2d5\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is the third reading of the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill, and I\u2019ve previously spoken to the House, actually, at the first reading. As has been heard in the House this evening, justice delayed is justice denied, which is a phrase that I\u2019ve used speaking to a number of other court-associated type bills before the House. So when I did address the House at the first reading, I talked about the importance of timeliness, particularly for our children\u2014not just adults in the Family Court system but particularly and especially children, because the concept of time is so very stretched out and delayed for children. So it is so important that the court not only just makes the system more efficient and effective, but timing is everything, especially for our children but also for all those applicants and persons who are part of the Family Court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo with this legislation, there will be the appointment of Family Court Associates who will be required under law to have at least a minimum of seven years\u2019 legal practice experience as a barrister and solicitor\u2014so very important because, effectively, the Family Court Associate is taking on a judicial role, and the focus of that role is to alleviate the administrative workloading for our judges. I have raised in this House before that in terms of making the Family Court more effective, more efficient, more timely, it\u2019s going to take so much more than just the appointment of Family Court Associates, and when the National Party is in Government, my colleague Chris Penk, who is spokesperson for courts, is already looking into and is drawing on the depth and breadth of experience of practitioners in this field throughout the country by engaging and, importantly, listening\u2014something that I could commend this Government to do, and is doing on this bill, but it is a bill proposed by this Government\u2014to implement what is going to be the most effective impact system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the Family Court system needs to be technologised. In the days\u2014and it seems to have been a lifetime ago now, almost seven to eight years\u2014working in the criminal court but also the Family Court, the Mental Health Courts, coming back to the Family Court, the importance of utilising technology to be able to facilitate accessibility but also efficiencies in timeliness. This bill doesn\u2019t address that. It\u2019s about putting in place more persons. I have said in this House before that we need more Family Court judges. I just draw on Minister Allan making mention and reference to retired judge His Honour Judge Paul von Dadelszen, who I appeared in front of on a regular basis when I travelled to Hastings in my Family Court role as a court-appointed lawyer for children but also in my district inspector of mental health role, because Judge von Dadelszen was a specialist mental health judge as well as Family Court judge. So I\u2019m actually quite pleased that, for a change, the Government has listened to somebody who does know more than they do in this sector\u2014so, Judge Paul von Dadelszen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll also make mention, too, of a former Family Court\u2014and he was a Principal Family Court Judge who is now this country\u2019s Ombudsman, Judge Peter Boshier. These are people, like a number of others, who have left the profession and giving service in the Family Court. But what I have also said in terms of the appointment of Family Court Associates: we need to look at the timeliness of appointment of judges as well, because what is tending to happen with the number of judges coming to retirement age exiting\u2014and there is a number of them\u2014we are leaving a void of a wealth of practice experience on the benches. So Family Court Associates will address administrative workloading of the Family Court judges, but that does not address the case decisions that need to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAnd I do emphasise\u2014and my colleague Chris Penk looking too in terms of making more efficient the courts system and my colleague Paul Goldsmith who\u2019s our justice spokesperson\u2014we really do need to look at boosting and bolstering our resourcing of people in addition to technologising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also heartened. This is the third reading, so it\u2019s my last chance to make special mention of those special people who I served with in the Whanganui District Court covering the mental health court. Family Court Associates, actually, because the mental health jurisdiction comes within the Family Court jurisdiction, may in part be addressing this to alleviate the workload of Family Court judges to deal with that other jurisdictional work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo I make mention of those who are continuing to give service in the Whanganui Family Court: people such as Sheryl Chapman long-time service; former, now retired, Rod Newport; Tracey Butler; and then there is Marcus Vettise, who was a registrar, 30 years\u2019 service plus. I mentioned Tasi Sua in a bill about social workers last week, 40 years\u2019 service. And the reason I do this is because it\u2019s localising and taking it back to the community I come from and people who are passionate about the service that they give. Rama Brownlee is another, then there\u2019s Dale and Chris. You know who you are. So I have the privilege to stand in this House to acknowledge and to say to our people in the community on the ground who do know better than most of us here in this House, the effect and the impact that it has in terms of customer service and how we facilitate the people most in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe select committee, which I wasn\u2019t part of\u2014my colleagues the Hon Paul Goldsmith, the Hon Mark Mitchell, and I believe Chris Penk also took part in these discussions around this Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. Submissions were heard or were considered from 31 interest groups and individuals with 14 submitters that were heard. In scrutiny and taking heed of those submissions, I see that the select committee turned their mind to applying what had been submitted by way of extending some of those Family Court Associate powers. And I turn to, within the bill specifically\u2014and I\u2019m quite heartened by this, because in the days when I did practise law\u2014Schedule 2 of the bill; new Schedule 2 inserted into the Family Court Act 1980. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThere was many an occasion\u2014in fact, a lot of wasted and lost time of a judge sitting on a bench dealing with counsel before, to make appointments, as counsel to assist the court, counsel to represent children, and counsel to facilitate, either as a McKenzie friend or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo new Schedule 2 is looking at alleviating the time of judges so that they can orientate and focus more of their work into the substantive application of listening to evidence, court hearings, and then making findings and determinations by issuing decisions. And that\u2019s the fact that I emphasise, that we do need more judges, because we have a growing population. We have a country that\u2019s in crisis with a cost of living crisis, with adverse weather events, with tragedies, and, of course, that affects people who are part of that fundamental, foundational societal construct called family and wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo the Family Court Associates will now take on the power to appoint lawyers in obtaining reports as well, such as cultural reports, such as medical, psychiatric, or psychological reports. All those important administrative functions of a judge now will be passed on to a Family Court Associate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo this is practical legislation, but it does need to go further to address that very issue of concern that it is a continuum we experience and it will become more of an experience with the crises that we have in our communities. Justice delayed is justice denied, and this is but one part of a whole mechanisation of the Family Court that, with tweaking and adjustment, may just speed it a little bit, but time will tell when there\u2019s a review of this in five years\u2019 time. So 53 seconds remaining\u2014I can wrap it up in a matter of three seconds to say that we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1a8b6908016475195808371f672bfd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1a8b6908016475195808371f672bfd3\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I\u2019m going to speak very briefly, because, as has been repeated a number of times, justice delayed is justice denied, and this bill shouldn\u2019t be delayed any longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut I am going to say this: as someone who spent many years as a Family Court lawyer, many years researching the Family Court, and who spends a lot of time talking to Family Court practitioners, I really struggle when I hear members of the Opposition attempt to school this Government about the fact that it apparently is not supporting the Family Court enough. I\u2019m sorry, but I was in the court in 2012 when the party on the other side gutted us, when the party on the other side removed the right for representation in the early stages, which caused the absolute disaster of delay that we have now, which skyrocketed ex parte applications, which caused a crisis of self-represented litigants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is one of many practical, sensible changes that this Government\u2019s bringing in, because we do the darn mahi, unlike other people who, in the interests of cost saving\u2014can I just say, to hear someone talk about how they\u2019re going to spend lots of money on judges when they gutted the court in the interests of cost saving, when they refused to listen to the very judges they have mentioned tonight, I find that really difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good, simple step forward. It will give the judges, who are currently buried in paperwork, real, practical assistance. It took this Government to do it, because that Government was about phony cost savings. They stripped the lawyers from the clients where they were needed, and it decimated the court. When I talk to my colleagues and I see the stress that they are still under, when I hear them talk about how they are barely hanging on because of the delays that they see their clients having to go through because of the workload created by the absolutely pointless reforms that we knew would decimate the court, when I see them talk like that and when I hear the sort of rhetoric from the other side\u2014empty, lacking-in-responsibility rhetoric\u2014I despair. But you know what I don\u2019t despair about? This bill. I darn well commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002291f406f71c6d40edb87f990b2f0f52ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291f406f71c6d40edb87f990b2f0f52ba\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too have a speech, and I promise I won\u2019t be as passionate about it, because my thoughts are going to be about the kids within the Family Court rather than the personalities across the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EACT will continue to support this bill, but we do have concerns around the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that went through during the committee of the whole House stage. It was tabled without thorough explanation as to its contents, and through my speech I\u2019d like to reflect on some of those aspects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn the committee of the whole House stage, a Supplementary Order Paper was lodged by the Government that made fundamental changes to the way children are processed through the Family Court when Oranga Tamariki are involved. Questions to the Minister, who sat in the chair\u2014which was the Minister of Police at the time, Ginny Andersen\u2014were around the removal of the ability of a Family Court Associate to actually assist when it comes to children caught up within the Oranga Tamariki Act, and that was made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill sought submissions from the public, and I\u2019d like to thank and acknowledge all of those people who came through and spoke to us. Some of those stories were quite heartfelt, and, of course, they came looking for change. The Justice Committee completed a report and I\u2019d like to acknowledge all of those that sat on the committee, because we thought we worked really well together. All parties that were involved within the Justice Committee agreed to the report\u2019s contents and its presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut then, at the eleventh hour, an SOP was produced that makes fundamental changes only involving those kids caught up in the Oranga Tamariki process. Family Court Associates now won\u2019t be able to direct people to attend counselling, won\u2019t be able to grant people leave to make representations, they can\u2019t direct a mediation conference to be convened, and they won\u2019t even be able to adjourn proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe hear constantly that we\u2019ve got kids caught within the system\u2014some of them for eight months, some of them for a lot longer than that\u2014and that they\u2019ve been removed from their families and are currently stuck in limbo. And without discussion with the people, with the submitters, even with the select committee, the Labour Government has just removed this ability for Family Court Associates to deal with these administrative issues of a child caught within the Oranga Tamariki system. This is what Family Court Associates are meant to be dealing with; it\u2019s what they\u2019re being created to do. This removal has been made with absolutely no valid explanation or reason given at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhen inquired upon in the committee of the whole House stage, in the first explanation given by the Minister, it was stated that submitters had expressed concerns around the uplifting of children and that the Minister of Justice had considered it best to remove clauses from the bill that give a Family Court Associate the powers of a judge to uplift under the Oranga Tamariki Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut those clauses around uplift actually remained in the bill; they were not being removed. All the administration pieces have been removed, except for section 39, about the placement of safety warrants; and section 40, about the warrant to remove a child. Both of those sections have remained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESubsequent inquiries did not produce any further information, apart from the Minister\u2019s statement that these issues are weighty ones. I would have hoped that we would consider all matters that are before the Family Court as being weighty ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnd when the Minister later commented that it\u2019s important, that the delay for our children\u2014not to have contact with wh\u0101nau for significant periods of time\u2014is damaging for our community, it can be detrimental to the wellbeing of tamariki, I wholeheartedly concur with her. I firmly believe that the Minister, in fact, both Ministers\u2014the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Police\u2014who have represented on this bill, have these kids\u2019\u2014these kids caught in this fraught Family Court\u2019s system\u2014best interests at heart; their parents\u2019 ability to get their kids and themselves out of the Family Court system even more so. As the Minister of Justice actually said in her speech tonight, the court delays exacerbate and cause trauma to these kids. So I\u2019m disappointed with what I feel is a significant change, made undemocratically and without good explanation, when the comments around children\u2019s welfare are not disputed by any party in this House. It\u2019s unconscionable to those very kids that we\u2019re trying to protect and get through the Family Court system in a timely way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENevertheless, we still support this bill, because Family Court Associates are expected to reduce the workload of our overstretched, our overworked, and heavily burdened Family Court judges. There are six Family Court Associates expected to be part of the initial tranche of recruitment, with the remaining positions to be filled over the following two years. They should receive training similar to that of a judge. The New Zealand Law Society indicated that there are 173 potential practising lawyers who would be able to fill these roles. And it should make a difference to around 25 percent of the estimated administration time of judges, freeing up a quarter of the time that judges have, to enable them to be able to really look at the serious issues that are before them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI have another concern around the change in the reporting time, because it was that we had to report within five years. The report on the effectiveness on reducing delays in the Family Court no longer needs to be produced within five years of the Act being implemented. The report now only needs to be started within five years, and it can be produced at any stage afterwards. Labour has initiated a clause via a Supplementary Order Paper that delays reporting on delays. ACT won\u2019t hold this one up any longer. At this stage of this parliamentary term, we will support the introduction of Family Court Associates to help our Family Court judges. And with ACT\u2019s policies in place, and those that are coming, we look forward to helping all children caught within our Family Court system without excluding those that are caught up in the Oranga Tamariki regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo, with that, ACT continues to support this bill through its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec4a8c5eec324732833b3ead2bd0be81\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221369076187e0448cb26de3a2ab2408a7\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Charities Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00228a086cdb0127400395700c3e261f3144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a086cdb0127400395700c3e261f3144\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is with some trepidation that I seek leave of the House to correct the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8eaa0fc9aa340929901a5afa5673010\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Order! Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a90720332094cadabb8d220c90feb1a\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. At the end of the Charities Amendment Bill second reading, there were two votes held. I would just like to record the Hon Meka Whaitiri\u2019s vote on those two votes\u2014which were, in both of them, one vote in favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0569408149d4cb28e38e2f53fa7044a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b32f262616c540f2ac7f44cc370abc8e\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002258873f4985444509b6ed7c842594dd5f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000778\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f714697fe123454eaa77449a90472c4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f714697fe123454eaa77449a90472c4f\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to speak in support of the Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill. I won\u2019t say the phrase that we\u2019ve all been saying across the House repeatedly, but delay is really bad for justice, and it is a breach of justice. It is well known as being the plague of justice systems that marginalises those who to attempt access our fair and transparent systems, which this should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E The Family Court deals with some of the most difficult issues of our justice system. It deals with abuse issues, it deals with issues that sometimes spill over into the criminal jurisdiction, which is where my experience of dealing with the Family Court came in, in the criminal courts, but it also deals with really important property rights, custody and access rights to children, and helps people to traverse a period of their lives that very emotionally burdens them. And so we have a duty of care to everyone who tries to access our system of justice at that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do want to say that the delay has become a source of abuse and trauma, and I think others have said this, and it is true. So as well as being a rights breach, we are, in fact, causing further trauma and re-traumatising further those who are already in very distressed circumstances as they try to access our Family Court system. And it\u2019s for a lack of resource that that has been happening for years and years now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge, as others have done, that the Family Court system has been pointed out to us as a House of Representatives and in select committee on issues to do with this court. In particular it has been used as a source or tool of abuse in an ongoing situation where those who access the Family Court system are already involved in dynamics that have power imbalances, that have abuse issues, and that have economic imbalances that can be reflected in the way that this delay then manifests in further traumatisation of victims. It is our duty as a House of Representatives to ensure that legislation goes forward to manifest in a fair and just and transparent way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAnd as someone who has worked also in a child rights context in our system of justice, I would say that, in particular, the breaches of rights that the delay in the Family Court processes has caused have impacted on children and young people. It has meant that their rights, wellbeing, and viewpoint haven\u2019t been centred in the process, which is a legal obligation of us all\u2014pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and to legislation that we\u2019ve adopted that has said that we will, in fact, centre the rights, wellbeing, and views of children in all matters that impact them. This can\u2019t be done when delays go on and on for years on end. As we know, a young person\u2019s life magnifies that delay in time. So to be without access to a parent or to be forced to have access with a parent that isn\u2019t fit to be the caretaker of that child can cause a magnified harm that we are here to protect young people against and that this system is there to protect young people against. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do want to say\u2014because others have touched on issues with the Family Court\u2014that, yes, it was gutted years ago, and we all remember that. Those of us in the justice sector who took that Government and that Minister of Justice to court and won, remember that? I want to remind my Labour Party colleagues that the Bar Association took the then Minister of Justice, the Hon Judith Collins, to court on judicial review and won, having the finding from the Court of Appeal that the legal aid system she\u2019d instituted was unlawful for prioritising cost cutting over what was the only legislative purpose that her delegation allowed, which was to provide fair and high-quality legal services. That system is still in place, and it hasn\u2019t in fact been addressed. The court\u2019s concerns still remain. So free access to mediation through the legal aid system to prevent cases from being forced into the Family Court\u2014that still remains. A lack of access to legal aid for those who can\u2019t afford high-quality legal services in both the criminal and Family Court systems still remains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo if we did address those resourcing issues, I think we would be in a better place to say that with this bill, with the allocation of resource to the Family Court Associates, we are truly addressing not only the delay, but a fair, transparent, and accessible system of justice for all those who need to access the Family Court would be in place. So this is a good first step, but there\u2019s a lot more to go, and all of that requires resource. I do look forward to the Budget tomorrow where I hope that there is more resource for a system of justice that we can truly say does not delay or abuse justice but creates a fair, accessible, and equal system for New Zealanders. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221194f90911904a478737e2c8bbc07391\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221194f90911904a478737e2c8bbc07391\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Emily Henderson\u2014no, no. No; Helen White.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002291d29bd50b384daeb5d00af7bf5124f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d29bd50b384daeb5d00af7bf5124f1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will take a very short call and let everyone go home. What I want to say about this bill\u2014first of all, I actually commend my friend Emily Henderson, whose passion you heard and who I actually respect for that passion. It brought her to the House. It was things like the delays in the Family Court that brought her here. My ex-husband was a Family Court lawyer, and it was very distressing when that happened, so it\u2019s really nice to see something that\u2019s going through that will really look at that problem and fix it. I really like the fact that there\u2019s a review that will come in after five years, when we have five years of data, to make sure we\u2019re doing the right thing and we\u2019re getting it right, and that\u2019s good for all New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House. Good night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00222fc2c2c357624262b0594c02c4f45bf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fc2c2c357624262b0594c02c4f45bf6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the chair. The House is resumed at 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230517225e47d21176450897bb5821025f8ad4000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"