"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0d9294963164c3fb2e4fa6d1f817a76\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb20550028744faa8f10fda5303c2467\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223992d6a0196441d795f8608dbe91d215\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e88cd1911044678a6840043f16ab229\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221256983996c8448f91427f2c691c9a5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221256983996c8448f91427f2c691c9a5b\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Deputy Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility, for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270797a0e89504e0d8d8375afed8e63a9\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7d9737c707048b09a4b3c35e35a533a\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc17614f916a47fe8bacb8ec4bb3221d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc17614f916a47fe8bacb8ec4bb3221d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, legislation to be considered will include the first readings of the Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill and the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2023 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill; the second reading of the Deposit Takers Bill; and the third readings of the Child Support (Pass On) Acts Amendment Bill and the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day, and on Thursday there will be a debate on local issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d9df7a6dd324366a0d746e687334502\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f46e7a2ccbe94fbbaee8ee96456e8279\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022096a82c9d4774058884f45ba40e815c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096a82c9d4774058884f45ba40e815c9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022305e1124ee5f4eb69b99da71d66975fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022305e1124ee5f4eb69b99da71d66975fe\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of SAFE requesting that the House ban the use of colony cages for hens\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Josiah Tualamali\u0027i requesting that the House conduct an inquiry into best practice for justice interventions to support young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002239263342d94d470fb203b767608e7478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239263342d94d470fb203b767608e7478\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Four initiatives supporting improved outcomes for M\u0101ori. That paper is published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7cd18a019584252bac8dabc503ff870\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7cd18a019584252bac8dabc503ff870\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Auditor-General\u2019s draft annual plan 2023-24\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Health Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2021-22 annual reviews of the South Canterbury and Waitemat\u0101 District Health Boards, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Marion Maw: Ensure access to ERP therapy for people living with OCD\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Social Services and Community Committee on the 2021-22 annual review of the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b387c9f03db04988928cba88143f3055\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b387c9f03db04988928cba88143f3055\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The draft annual plan is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002215ca5e83606a4c929bdfa3397363af40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215ca5e83606a4c929bdfa3397363af40\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002268d4e7a730704ef09920c9693f259387\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268d4e7a730704ef09920c9693f259387\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022034e467c01ad40b489add42b150831f6\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259b7ba5bf61d488397aaf60cc6cff94e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3af4683db8f4260be44b94f769fe506\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002243c368b59a074b24a06391109c5396d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c368b59a074b24a06391109c5396d5\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he received any advice from Government officials in the past year that included proposals for reducing the income tax paid by New Zealanders; if so, has Cabinet given consideration to any of those proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022cab425ce479f4830b1f97e455a1ef51b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cab425ce479f4830b1f97e455a1ef51b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part of the question, as I have previously said, the Government receives a range of tax policy advice during the parliamentary term, and that includes ideas for both reducing and increasing taxes. For the second part of the question, as the member knows, Cabinet discussions are confidential until such time as announcements are made or material is otherwise released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdb46738fa04ed2becdf1ef2bde7107\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consider including income tax relief in Budget 2023, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff5b87932cd4f0f9af8cc65d9f69f77\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government gave consideration to a wide range of policies in Budget 2023, but, as the member well knows, the Government\u2019s conclusion was that now is not the right time for tax cuts when there is so much pressure on delivering the public services that New Zealanders need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b509e769d664fff8c1ff8b48727aa4a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Have Government officials in the past year provided advice on possible new taxes, such as, for example, a tax on unrealised capital gains?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b0c46493044593907c7d48e3c3c9ec\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in answer to my primary question, officials provide a wide range of advice across the parliamentary term about a wide range of taxation issues. Any announcements about those would be made by the Government, as the member knows. In the Budget, we made an announcement about the trustee tax rate, and we also have made very clear that there will be no other tax changes in this term of Parliament, beyond those that we campaigned on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229121978c28eb44cd8ee9d49bcbbc3f42\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it would be appropriate for Government officials to be asked to work on tax policy for the Labour Party manifesto?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249521b99060140068c79be4d8b4d630f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that would be appropriate. Any advice that I have sought or have received in my time as Minister is in my role as Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de9f06c11a04441a683bb2ec702e9ed\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm no tax proposals were prepared by IRD and taken to Cabinet that will form a part of the Labour Party\u2019s election year manifesto?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a717add3b90d4350a260aa6ba1a147ff\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat the answer that I\u2019ve just given: any and all advice received by the Government is received by the Government and us as Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2aad0ac5bc641e293840535736b6cb3\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Well, then can he assure New Zealanders the Government has not weaponised the Public Service to prepare Labour\u2019s election year tax policy to avoid paying for their own research and policy advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223260bdb49a5d4363820c6af07ce62be0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat the answers I\u2019ve just given to the previous two supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9bc844e75c42f6b1580cefcba6410b\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Given he won\u2019t give a straight answer, can New Zealanders conclude\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cd2046f9ee4143b12a413d281d5b39\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That statement is completely out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955b7bcfedb04608a0cd2f9d30887594\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what? And none of the comments you make are? Dear Lord!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275323d7f5b1c44be9d3b68de6aa77391\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When you\u2019re ready, Mr Brownlee, thank you. Starting off a question like that is never helpful. I\u2019m going to rule that question out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744b6bc83aba4305a2aa5605ee558c38\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he just be clear and tell New Zealanders that he is considering adding a new tax but that he doesn\u2019t want to tell them until much closer to the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d885e207b6694dec910ecdc95078223a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We have been very clear that the taxation policy we took to the 2020 election is what the Government is implementing. We were clear in the Budget about what we\u2019re doing on taxation. There is no proposal to do anything beyond that by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd443b4b6fca4bc2b1261f98b26979bf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Cyclone Recovery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc02c45ade1043909fc45af20036be62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc02c45ade1043909fc45af20036be62\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: What announcements has the Government made about support for severely affected locations in the wake of the Auckland Anniversary weekend floods and Cyclone Gabrielle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1be1c794fd4faa8d154e07692d3ed5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1be1c794fd4faa8d154e07692d3ed5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister for Cyclone Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is continuing to support those communities and regions affected with the recovery and rebuild from the recent extreme weather events. Today, we announced that the Government will enter into a funding arrangement with councils in cyclone and flood affected regions to support them to offer a voluntary buy-out for owners of category 3 designated residential properties. We will also co-fund work needed to protect category 2 designated properties. This will help councils get the right solution in the right place and avoid significant financial hardship for property owners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d731d0154c849bd9c691106b270aa9f\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What else did the announcement say about support for severely affected locations following the recent extreme weather events?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e40376d7adf4a379f3f15c3cc94f07c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What we announced today is that we will work through the details with councils on how the funding of buy-outs for category 3 properties, and support for areas where category 2 properties are, over the coming weeks. We expect to have those details resolved later this month. For properties designated category 2, where community and or property-level interventions are possible to manage future severe weather event risk, the Government will work with councils to help them build flood protection and other resilience measures. The initial support for this is already in place, with $100 million initial funding announced in Budget 2023. People in homes designated as category 3 properties, where future severe weather event risk cannot be mitigated, will be offered a voluntary buy-out by councils, the cost of which will be shared between the Government and councils. Decisions on the details of how the voluntary buy-out process will work will be made in the coming weeks. Issues to consider include the criteria for valuation of category 3 properties, the split of cost between councils and central government, and the treatment of uninsured properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a94388dc49354fc4ad8df1ce9f71f02e\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: What other work is the Government doing to support those affected by the recent weather events?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb965dd74a924c23a210bb70ff98ae5a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Today\u2019s announcement was about residential properties. We are, of course, continuing to work with sectors, such as the horticulture sector, on possible support for commercial operators, and also on regional plans that will provide overall support for recovery and rebuild. A parallel process is also under way to engage with M\u0101ori, including on appropriate processes for whenua M\u0101ori. Engagement with those communities will be led by Te Arawhiti, the Cyclone Response Unit, and local councils. This process will ensure that there are equitable outcomes for those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522e185e24c74867a9c99c683bbe15b8\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. With key details not advised today, such as residential housing outside the Hawke\u2019s Bay, how to treat uninsured properties, and the split of costs between councils and central government, aren\u2019t these statements in the nature of an announcement about announcements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d0bcce04309449da86d9dfda992252f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. And to pick up one of the member\u2019s points, the announcements today apply to every region affected. That announcement is that there will be a voluntary buy-out programme led by local councils and financially supported by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd87097b3b3f43419b555bb9cee4acc7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022eee120ef42ab487eae9123d85dd8a082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eee120ef42ab487eae9123d85dd8a082\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Is she satisfied with the performance of K\u0101inga Ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00226ae963bad54842acb72f524e1a6503e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ae963bad54842acb72f524e1a6503e8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I am particularly satisfied with how K\u0101inga Ora has turned around what was, essentially, a sales unit six years ago into an agency that not only builds thousands of public houses but also has a national urban development function, to ensure that housing is enabled across the housing continuum. K\u0101inga Ora has built or enabled a gross number of 14,000 houses since October 2017, across public and transitional housing, KiwiBuild, and large-scale projects. Based on current staffing levels, this is one staff member per two houses built or under construction, compared to two staff members per home under construction under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022835c741deae948559b45b697d25097cb\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: With reference to that answer to the primary, and particularly the reference to KiwiBuild, is she saying that the Government\u2019s success in building 2,000 KiwiBuild homes in the last six years is actually a success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220461b160ae4b43c1a567e2dc0041af1f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: What I pointed out to that member is that K\u0101inga Ora is an agency that has turned around from being a sales unit for flogging off State housing to building a Government housing programme that not only contains the record number of State houses built since the 1970s but that also contains market houses and KiwiBuild houses. This is a Government that builds houses, and we are proud of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341bd0843d6243dbb0a38001a15ea662\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why does Budget 2023 allocate $3 billion to K\u0101inga Ora and forecast that to build 3,000 houses, at an average cost of $1 million a house?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f79fdfda8bd4ba1aa3556c059771a15\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is simply incorrect in his calculations. What Budget 2023 does is allow a borrowing facility of up to that amount. Of course, if K\u0101inga Ora were to build 3,000 houses\u2014which it won\u2019t, because the community housing providers will be building some of those\u2014that would be a net number. In order for K\u0101inga Ora to deliver, say, net 2,000 houses, it actually has to build around 1,000 houses. I compared, before I came down, the construction cost of our community housing providers compared to K\u0101inga Ora, and, actually, K\u0101inga Ora has, in the last financial year, delivered two bedroom units at a lower cost than all of our providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cbacbd3a13c465bacc3d1ed2737885f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she have any confidence K\u0101inga Ora will deliver these extra houses on budget when Budget 2023 allocates an extra $7 billion to the agency, which is more than is being allocated for the national resilience plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b2e14557c64e95bf5c5d197068cab4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I have confidence because the operational funding that was allocated in the Budget is for just that: operations. It is the money that is required for the operating supplement and the income-related rent subsidy\u2014something that member is going to have to get his head around, in terms of what a real commitment to public housing looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d510dc9dadc3433f8396ba25981984ac\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s more of a failure: spending $2 billion on KiwiBuild for 2,000 houses or spending $3 billion on K\u0101inga Ora to deliver just 3,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75ecb9fac134e92bfbb4c32a857822f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is incorrect in both instances. KiwiBuild has not had to exercise the discounted underwrite on any of the properties. There are 1,700 New Zealanders that are in affordable first homes over six years under our Government, compared to less than 100 under National over nine years. So I will put that record next to theirs any day of the week. And, as I pointed out in previous answers, the member has simply got his mathematics wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417413f0ce6948b398e5632a36858ffc\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is she comfortable with the billions of dollars that K\u0101inga Ora has borrowed in the last six years, relative to a State house waiting list that has quintupled under her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b25df5b7ca4f491fb93883a85e148ddd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I am more than comfortable, because it\u2019s to fix the decimation of a housing programme that happened under nine years of National. Not only did they end up with 1,500 fewer public houses held by either Housing New Zealand or community housing providers than when they started, they failed to deliver. If they had delivered at the rate that we are, we would have 20,000 more State houses in this country. But not only did they sell them off and fail to deliver; they also raided the coffers of Housing New Zealand and took out over half a billion dollars rather than building houses with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a11f5a2b73f34cc5ab669b2383e066fb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u00221c1c324c498d4acba14fc19275311ed8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c1c324c498d4acba14fc19275311ed8\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. What progress has been made on the Government\u2019s target of 1,800 additional police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022f02279ad509d4009a14cfb86a426ec71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f02279ad509d4009a14cfb86a426ec71\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E In 2017, the newly elected Labour Government committed to a target of 1,800 additional police on the front line. New Zealanders told us that they wanted more police in our communities, and we committed to delivering that. So it was with great pride today that I attended the graduation, along with the Prime Minister, of Wing 366, this morning, which now sees police with 10,700 officers\u2014an increase of 21 percent since 2017. With the recent commitment to maintaining an ongoing ratio of one police officer to every 480 New Zealanders, the public can be assured that under a Labour Government, there won\u2019t be a cut to the number of officers keeping our communities safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5efdb1f9c641709a47eab2c556d9b8\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, where are these additional police being deployed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0cf15c03b66454c9d890cc04f8bb2e9\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me be clear: every single one of our 12 police districts in New Zealand is better resourced and better staffed today than when we came into office in 2017. The most significant increases in police numbers have been in Eastern District, with 24 percent; Northland, 23 percent increase; Bay of Plenty with a 20 percent increase; and with other districts right around the country receiving, at a minimum, an 11 percent increase in front-line staff. We\u2019ve also significantly bolstered the number of cops working to fight organised crime and gangs, which includes both centralised and specialist ability that can be readily deployed to other districts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4eb16a479b445787cc2873614bd76a\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: And how has the diversity of the constabulary changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224510c8717c69476596f028571712dd74\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: More good news: we knew it wasn\u2019t just enough to increase the number of police; we needed to work hard to ensure our police service reflected those communities they serve. That\u2019s why I\u2019m incredibly proud that we\u2019ve had a thousand additional policewomen join, which represents an increase of 61 percent since 2017. We\u2019ve seen more M\u0101ori officers increase by 40 percent since 2017, Pasifika officers increase by 83 percent, and Asian officers increase by 157 percent since 2017. I want to thank every single member of our police service for their commitment to their country, and especially to welcome those new recruits who have joined since 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022776d1759f6da423d894603144a25e549\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, what other work is supporting the police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224683c85f30e641fc883aea2fe8da38e8\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: We know it\u2019s not enough to simply have more police on the ground in the communities; we need the right rules and the right tools in order to do their jobs well. That\u2019s exactly why, alongside the 1,800 additional police, we\u2019ve also invested in the tactical response model rolled out nationally. We\u2019ve also invested an additional $94 million into tackling gangs and organised crime, and we\u2019ve changed the law to crack down on gang profits, seize and impound vehicles, and enable targeted powers during gang conflicts. This Government is committed to supporting our police; unlike the austerity of the last Government that saw a decline under real police numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa585b12fdd540b7a6eccf6214b18eeb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022222cb664ed4c4839b9ba80c19832045f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022222cb664ed4c4839b9ba80c19832045f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 5, the Hon Michael Woodhouse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214897d14e0b145aa9b4e91d9e9ff1aa1\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: No supp, Mr Mitchell? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9b4a6ce816a477a96b460a00ea34728\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9b4a6ce816a477a96b460a00ea34728\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae99577679184192ac84700e97d14d1d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, be quiet, Marja Lubeck. Sorry about that\u2014the Hon Michael Woodhouse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00223661189a77ed4fd48d59231073621c28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223661189a77ed4fd48d59231073621c28\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: How much money, if any, has been spent on consultants and contractors working on the Government\u2019s Industry Transformation Plans since 1 July 2020, and how much is expected to be spent on consultants and contractors in the next financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00225c37dc9a802744d69139cca0b2b2a3a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c37dc9a802744d69139cca0b2b2a3a4\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. Fa\u2018afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. Industry transformation plans (ITPs) allow the Government, with businesses, workers, and iwi, to help industries become part of a high-wage, low-emission economy. ITPs reflect our strategy in Budget 2023 to strengthen the economy by investing in the basics for growth, skills, better infrastructure, and science and technology. Responsibility for development and delivery of industry transformation plans rests across multiple agencies. For the five ITPs that fall within Vote Business, Science and Innovation, for which I am responsible, approximately $4.6 million has been spent on consultancy services from 1 July 2020 to the beginning of May 2023. Scoping work to deliver on the ITPs over the next financial year is still in progress, so no estimate is available for the second part of his question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224433d08fe43d436e93ee6538b89b4e69\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that that $4.6 million is part of more than $200 million the Government plans to spend on industry transformation plans, and, at a current cost of $75,000 per page, how on earth does this represent good value for money? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229399e4830ace4dc09ad0c07695b30540\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that good value for money is lifting the productivity of the labour market and the environmental performances of key industries, which is essential to underpin higher living standards in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e8403ed2a04c0c9a5e3e4a7e19714a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in that case, does she agree with the chair of the Productivity Commission, Ganesh Nana, who said that ITPs were \u201Cvery small, not attracting any non-government dollars, and don\u2019t have connections to the researchers\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a91d601167947799042bf995e92eed7\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: What I do agree with is that six of the eight ITPs that have been developed and launched have actions already under way, including through Budget 2023, where $29 million has been invested as a result of the ITP in the agritech catalyst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022944b519f6b38452d97a41743d7b79391\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the ITP development was done with the sector, the community, the workers, and also M\u0101ori and unions to make sure that the planning process was done with sound research and sound information? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4572014c504a8590f02bb7c6430442\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, I can confirm that industry transformation plans are a partnership both with business, workers, and iwi to help our industries become part of a high-wage, low-emission economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca28213ea9f4a72870dd8a04b14ef6a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with BusinessDesk\u2019s Pattrick Smellie, who said, \u201CIf a listed company were to spend whatever has been spent so far on the ITPs to produce as little as they have, shareholders sure as hell wouldn\u2019t be voting them a few tens of millions of dollars to keep going.\u201D, and why did the Government vote itself tens of millions more in Budget 2023 to keep them going? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f17e2366784578a3da2850ea833bdb\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in my previous answer, ITPs provide a way for the Government and industries to partner to transform industries for the future. You must have a plan in order to plan for the future, as opposed to policy on the hoof. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edbc851dc764d41a3ccf9f101b2036d\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the head of the Employers and Manufacturers Association, Brett O\u2019Reilly, who said in respect of the advanced manufacturing ITP, \u201CWe know through COVID there was a fresh appreciation of the contribution that advanced manufacturing makes to the New Zealand economy and people\u2019s livelihoods. We need to build on that, and the ITP sets a clear path to achieving the growth and productivity gains our country needs to compete.\u201D? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb8b032b7bb4047914af34fa65336bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to give Government members a warning. Simply standing up and asking a question such as that, and we\u2019ve had two so far, basically almost giving a narrative at the end of them and they\u2019re clearly over\u2014giving the answer to the Minister really is out of order. So I\u2019m going to rule that one out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9cd73fa821641a6a8ae43b7240f24c9\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t she agree that with millions being spent on consultants and plans at a cost of $75,000 per page, the only industry this Government is transforming is the consultancy industry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29a3b37595342e4aa77d34cfd580f50\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said previously, ITPs reflect our strategy to strengthen the industries for the future. Consultancy investment has been crucial to the development of ITPs\u2014for example, research to enable evidence-based decision-making, market reports to provide baseline information and sector insight, and business case development to support large investment initiatives such as the $29 million in Budget 2023 for the agritech catalyst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285a5aff0f014470e85431b8b118b1cf0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022b32f37a93fd040f3992d8e4516cd43bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b32f37a93fd040f3992d8e4516cd43bd\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What announcement has the Government recently made about reducing pay disparity between community and hospital nurses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00226983e52efbd1466e94501f08ac30d561\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226983e52efbd1466e94501f08ac30d561\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I was pleased to announce that approximately 6,100 more GP community nurses and kai\u0101whina will be eligible for pay rises of an average of 8 percent. This will go a long way to addressing pay disparity between hospital nurses and nurses in the community, including GP nurses. This will also lift pay rates for about 1,300 nurses and kai\u0101whina who work in Family Planning, Plunket, Well Child Tamariki Ora, school nursing services, mental health and addition, rural hospitals, telehealth, community care services, and the youth one stop shops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222089839ad1f24562b1769cd4b05a2c10\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: How will this support GP community nurses and kai\u0101whina with the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b645e20978f14ff390510181b973d422\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: This significant investment is a major step towards tackling longstanding issues of pay gaps between nurses who work in the community and those who work in hospitals. This incentivises nurses to work in parts of the sector that keep people well in their homes and communities and supports those nurses with the rising cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402db824174a4a20a9bc82f43e9cae53\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: When will these increases come into effect for these nurses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e83987ce014b2d888d305ba5804b64\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: This group of hard-working nurses will benefit from this pay boost from July this year. This payment is in addition to the payment that 8,160 nurses and kai\u0101whina received under this initiative from the start of April.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dce386887f74f47ad264bea1f548367\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: How many nurses will benefit from this programme of work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a48f25854dd4e059eb2cca14675d773\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: In total, this pay disparity programme has increased the pay of 14,250 nurses and kai\u0101whina across New Zealand. I am proud of this Government\u2019s record on valuing this vital workforce. Nurses play a critical role in caring for the health and wellbeing of our community. This is in addition to our action for nurses employed by Te Whatu Ora in hospitals. Since we became Government, graduate nurse base salaries have risen 35 percent from $49,000 to $66,000, and the top base salary for registered nurses has risen 43 percent from $66,000 to $95,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e875e562e5a451f86379f3e83cd3282\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u00226b2a5da585de44ca953c1ba843621435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b2a5da585de44ca953c1ba843621435\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: How many people earning less than $180,000 a year with a family trust will pay the 39 percent rate of tax on any income they earn from that trust, and does he think it is fair for someone earning $80,000, such as a hairdresser, mechanic, or butcher, to be subject to the top tax rate if their business is held in a trust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb47935cc0d044708dc8599ffd2febee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb47935cc0d044708dc8599ffd2febee\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Associate Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Revenue: I am advised that Inland Revenue does not hold the information requested by the member, because it is dependent on how the trust operating the business treats the income\u2014in particular, whether the income of the trust is taxed as trustee income and therefore taxed at the trustee rate, or beneficiary income taxed at the beneficiary\u2019s personal tax rate. Regarding the second part of the question, under both the current law and the proposed changes, trustees have the ability to distribute the income of the trust to the beneficiary to be taxed at their personal tax rate. In the example in the member\u2019s question, the effective income tax rate for someone earning $80,000 is approximately 22 percent, which is lower than the current trust rate of 33 percent. Accordingly, currently the trust would normally distribute the business income to such a beneficiary of the trust to be taxed at their lower personal tax rate. This can continue, in which case the tax change will have no impact on their tax position. Alternative methods to the same effect include payment out by way of salary if the butcher works in her or his business. The substantial effect of the change is to reduce tax avoidance by the wealthy, high-income New Zealanders who do earn more than $180,000 and who otherwise could avoid tax via trusts. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d50766e0efd43f3ae3f476ee5730575\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We\u2019ll hear the supplementary in silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d9aecb82c04fac9c956f1ff72eb6ad\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that in the 2021 financial year, 92 percent of trusts in New Zealand earned less than $180,000, and is he concerned about how middle-income families, small-business owners, and retirees with trusts will be impacted by these proposed tax changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf808c9307f414cb185c956be084662\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, yes, I am aware of the number of small-earning trusts. In fact, it\u2019s really interesting to know exactly how trustee income is distributed in this country. The top 5 percent of trusts with some taxable income in the 2021 tax year accounted for 78 percent of all trustee income. In fact, most trusts have relatively small amounts of trustee income. The lower 75 percent of trusts with taxable income accounted for only 2.5 percent of trustee income. In fact, of course, with that lower amount of trustee income, if it is distributed to the beneficiaries, then it is taxed at the beneficiaries\u2019 marginal tax rates. It is a fairly straightforward matter to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03ab0048d2646c8bae8ce9b97566ddf\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recognise that many families put their assets into trusts to protect them from relationship breakdowns or the event of a remarriage, and does he think it\u2019s fair for these families to pay an extra 6 percent or even 9 percent tax for protecting their assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110953cb54534f6c96515cb681f4596e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, of course, in order for trustee tax to be paid on income earned by a trust, that trust would have to earn income in the first place. If assets are being placed into a family trust, it is for the protection of the asset, not in order to earn income. Such family trusts, we think, earn very little income. However, it is impossible to tell how much income family trusts earn, because tax law does not make a distinction between family trusts, trusts that are used for business, or trusts that are used for investments and so on. They are all just trusts for the purposes of tax law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228138e043f689481583246808f3175ab4\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5b087c8db34558b4968c73f90beef3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the member has run out of supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7b250e6518c4a9cb2be64f15781cc6d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Wh\u0101nau Ora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022 data-id=\u00229f4308f012a548baa9196db8d88e06a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f4308f012a548baa9196db8d88e06a6\u0022\u003ESORAYA PEKE-MASON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora: How is Budget 2023 supporting the kaupapa of Wh\u0101nau Ora to improve wh\u0101nau wellbeing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00224cd9978444c74971a6875616e6b81f9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cd9978444c74971a6875616e6b81f9d\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E Wh\u0101nau Ora has supported our wh\u0101nau from crisis to crisis, from COVID-19, recent weather events, and currently through tough economic times. The success of Wh\u0101nau Ora comes down to Government working together with our wh\u0101nau and community to determine their own wellbeing. Since 2018, this Government has increased the Wh\u0101nau Ora budget by 145 percent to invest in the kaupapa that lifts wh\u0101nau wellbeing. This year, we have invested $168.1 million for the next four years. With this funding, we will ensure the Wh\u0101nau Ora workforce, including our M\u0101ori and Pacific providers, are well looked after. We will also ensure we can continue to rise to the increasing demands in the current economic context, supporting thousands more wh\u0101nau each year to access the support they need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063427bb195b4014ad256eb827cb0408\u0022\u003ESoraya Peke-Mason\u003C/span\u003E: How will Wh\u0101nau Ora support m\u0101m\u0101, their p\u0113pi, and their wh\u0101nau through the funding provided in this year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474c4da2530f4c45b426ab733145354b\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: This year, the Government announced $64.4 million over four years for the Ng\u0101 Tini Whet\u016B initiative for delivery across the North Island. This funding is focused on supporting m\u0101m\u0101, p\u0113pi, and wh\u0101nau through the first 1,000 days\u2019 period\u2014a period we know is a pivotal time for wh\u0101nau, parents, and their child. The first 1,000 days is often determinative of future wellbeing outcomes for wh\u0101nau, and the initial prototype of Ng\u0101 Tini Whet\u016B was a great success. Recently, I attended the launch of reports evidencing this success, which speaks to the power of wh\u0101nau-led service delivery. This funding allows Wh\u0101nau Ora to test the Ng\u0101 Tini Whet\u016B model with a specific kaupapa of huge importance to wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c08bf75fe35e40a29474351a4b757a96\u0022\u003ESoraya Peke-Mason\u003C/span\u003E: How will Budget 2023 support the Wh\u0101nau Ora workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd5be52a5012405789e763102ba4ec12\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: This year\u2019s Budget will provide $35 million over four years to ensure Wh\u0101nau Ora providers can continue their support for wh\u0101nau and continue to develop their skills. I\u2019ve seen firsthand the work Wh\u0101nau Ora kaimahi do across Aotearoa New Zealand, and I am proud to see funding that recognises this extraordinary work. The funding increases will ensure staff wages can reflect performance and living costs. Pasifika Futures, one of the three commissioning agencies, have told me that this recognises the considerable cost pressures that they are currently under, but allows them to continue the important work that their wh\u0101nau need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed9f7e2a-8a0b-4bd9-a526-13450770b2db\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d5a48b75764796ae38a2651a4e1688\u0022\u003ESoraya Peke-Mason\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback is the Minister hearing about the announcements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce0df1162df84b43b5f0f41d6b0c68bc\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Hugely positive\u2014with the exception of the other side of the House. The Wh\u0101nau Ora Budget announcement has been well received. My colleagues and I travelled the motu\u2014which means country\u2014last week and here is some of the feedback. Pasifika Futures say they are pleased to have the amazing work our families and partners have recognised in Budget 2023. Tair\u0101whiti region says, \u201CKa nui te mihi, Minita.\u201D These are huge investments for M\u0101ori that I believe will only strengthen us as a people and as a community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ea58aba7e2146df8b44d32c6b7d677c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002255f79fe72e744e73af763cd8a9bb4e3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255f79fe72e744e73af763cd8a9bb4e3f\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that the tone of the Government\u2019s campaign suggesting New Zealanders take shorter showers is \u201Ca bit off\u201D; if so, does she think spending $2.8 million on that campaign is acceptable during a cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002273d254a24f2e43f79f607dcd045e98a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273d254a24f2e43f79f607dcd045e98a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the Prime Minister. As I said last week, the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA) are reviewing the material of their regular energy efficiency campaign to make sure the tone is right, particularly during a cost of living crisis. While it is EECA\u2019s job to provide information to the public about energy efficiency, and it does that on a regular basis, I acknowledge that releasing the campaign on the same day as the official cash rate was poorly timed. I note that this energy efficiency campaign happens regularly, and the Energy Spot goes back to 2009, when it was launched by the previous National Government, by then energy Minister Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a76b5576f1428ab3d7705eb6b3f9df\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that when former Minister of Energy and Resources the Hon Gerry Brownlee ran an energy saving campaign, inflation was as low as 1.7 percent, and can she confirm that when she announced the \u201CFinding Money in Weird Places\u201D campaign, inflation was at a staggering 6.7 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a035f558a6345878e2d3197c298fab8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that in 2009, when the Energy Spot campaign was launched, of course this was the year that New Zealand went into recession for the first time in a decade, in the wake of the global financial crisis, and GDP fell by 4.3 percent in that year. But I\u2019ve always thought that Gerry Brownlee and I agree on most things, and when it comes to times when households are finding it tough, there can actually be some merit in our agency, which is tasked with educating people on how it is they can save money on their power bills\u2014we are giving just that information on how to save money on power bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe27621e61a42dd9694c309fe69f2ad\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How much money will the average household save by having a shorter shower, and is that more or less than the extra $760 that New Zealanders are forking out in mortgage repayments over the last two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294de71c1ce154ca4ac6cd942f068466c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: As the member has probably seen, households can save up to $500 across all of the tips that are there. But I do notice\u2014I hold this example from 2009, headed, \u201CGetting out of hot water\u201D, where there was advice for people to reduce their shower time in a household of three\u2014that each minute you add to your shower is about $70 a year. It also told people to wash their clothes in cold water, fix dripping hot taps, and to check the shower floor. The information that was released is very much a continuation of the information that was pioneered by that innovator Gerry Brownlee in his time as the Minister of energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca799023f8494cc08c78a1f9cbd199b1\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does she seriously think that the solution to solving this country\u2019s prolonged cost of living crisis is to lecture New Zealanders about having shorter showers and using their slow cooker more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53e05df5e344388893eba7689960768\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: In 2023, the advice that was issued was for people to change the washing machine settings to cold water to save up to about $50 a year. I think this was a little less prescriptive than 2012, when the National Government told people to save energy by using cold water to wash their clothes and other lightly soiled loads. Our Government does not take a position on how soiled people\u2019s washing is. I seek leave to table this example from the 2009 Energy-wise campaign. It is not publicly available. I had to reach deep into the archives of EECA to retrieve this information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2859ad11ea149a8a62f14f12bd5bdb0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Obviously, we can\u2019t table things that are already publicly available. I\u2019m wondering if that, like the Minister\u2019s brochure, was sent to 600,000 people in full colour, at taxpayer expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a46c0ea576a740c6b2609e5c23d6f767\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022058acc4b9bdf4d7b9cfc5618e235704e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014no, you\u2019re not! And that wasn\u2019t a point of order either. We\u2019ll just call that one all and leave it there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f47679d3f8bd4ea4a00342cafc5e953d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f549720e44454f36987c2dfb3cebd302\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f549720e44454f36987c2dfb3cebd302\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Is she committed to ensuring the K\u0101inga Ora build programme will deliver enough housing for everyone currently on the waiting list and for projected future needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022467889a005bb44aca44e456c3d017ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022467889a005bb44aca44e456c3d017ab7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m proud of our Government\u2019s record, adding a record number of homes through K\u0101inga Ora and community housing providers (CHPs) since 2017\u2014more than any other Government since the 1970s. Through Budget 2023, we have also committed both operating and capital funding to deliver an additional 3,000 public homes by June 2025. This commitment provides certainty for K\u0101inga Ora and CHPs to maintain the momentum that they have built up. As I have previously said, each political party will need to show New Zealand what their delivery plans are ahead of the election and how it fits within their prioritised manifesto commitments. But public housing alone will not solve New Zealand\u2019s housing crisis, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve invested a massive $3.8 billion in the Housing Acceleration Fund to fund essential infrastructure like roads and pipes, as well as investing $350 million into the Affordable Housing Fund to deliver more affordable rentals, which will also help to reduce the wait-list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225c0f2e27c064ad58d7704d3e5bf61ca\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is fair to not commit to adequately funding the K\u0101inga Ora build programme so that everyone on the housing waiting list has a warm, dry, affordable home to live in so she can turn it into an election year political football?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201793a39fab94dd58917ba00ac0f4390\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s characterisation is simply not correct. Our Government, at each Budget, has put additional funding into the operational funding that is required to build State houses. When we came into Government, there was only income-related rent subsidy funding or operational funding for around a thousand additional places. In the time that we have been in Government, we have increased the Budget each and every year to fund increased commitments. I am proud to stand here as a Labour Minister of Housing and say that one in seven of every public houses in this country was built by our Government in the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d12f1a9377c344b5bf93450126b0790e\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that it is essential to have a long-term build programme for K\u0101inga Ora to clear the public housing waiting list, and, if so, why was that not present in the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226259b1e807464e09b64d434d0f1289ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree, and that is why our Government, at each and every Budget, has put funding in to ensure that momentum can be maintained. When I spend time with both our community housing providers and with K\u0101inga Ora, in order for them to do the contracting that is required to maintain momentum of the largest State house build in a generation, they need the ability to contract out to 2025. That is exactly what our Government has delivered. Our Government has delivered operational funding for an additional 21,000 public and transitional houses over the last six years in Government. A decade before that, across both our community housing providers and our State house provider, we ended up with 1,500 fewer houses over that decade. What we have done is something I am proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228026b508e304e4d8737aec0977249d2\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister commit to changing the ratio of public versus private homes that are being built as part of redevelopments so that we can clear the public housing wait sooner and ensure that everyone has a warm, dry home to live in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281860b1889454f0e800090d60e250757\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: One of the things that I spoke about when I spoke at the Community Housing Aotearoa Conference last week was actually about the fact that what I want to see us do in the year that we\u2019ve just funded of the public housing plan is build in those very difficult places, those places where we haven\u2019t built for decades because we do not own the land. It is about rebuilding our public housing infrastructure outside of our main centres. So, no, I won\u2019t commit to that, because I want to see Gisborne have State housing again. I want to see Rotorua have State housing again. I want to see Timaru have State housing again. I want to see Ashburton have State housing again. Making a simple commitment like the member is asking me to do would be short-changing the people in regional New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223cc9b411bb954782a2af87b3d02a5225\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d22768d827c2407dbf95d7099d8b4772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d22768d827c2407dbf95d7099d8b4772\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: Talofa lava lau afioga le Fofoga Fetalai. What announcements has he made about supporting competition and better deals for consumers across the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022189335740a3142e69c5ff933e923cc4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022189335740a3142e69c5ff933e923cc4a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Three market studies by the Commerce Commission have found concerning use of land covenants: building supplies, fuel, and groceries. Large players in these sectors use land agreements to make sure their competitors can\u2019t locate close by. This tactic obviously has a chilling effect on competition. Using land agreements that dampen down competition for consumers isn\u2019t good enough. So that\u2019s why I\u2019m undertaking a review of anti-competitive land agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202d4487d499749b1857e5fcfede0013f\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: What are anti-competitive land agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344d19fb817e4199893c34864c1747eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: These are agreements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221905cfffe47d4ce9bfc8de84cfcaab46\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Google it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248b1d016add74a5192f01d6b2090bcce\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014such as land covenants or lease agreements\u2014this is for you, Mr Woodhouse\u2014that make it harder for an existing or potential competitor to do business. For example, a company selling a gas station might prohibit the land ever being used for another gas station. Another example is where a land purchase agreement requires only building materials from a certain supplier to be used. These agreements suppress competition, and this Government is doing something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ee8c7741a0340f1996811da46b6addb\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Why do they matter to Kiwi consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233158f6836324f9ba5c78169a8e78cc7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Kiwi consumers win when existing businesses compete and when new businesses are able to get off the ground. A competitive market sees different players vying for customers with the best deals on price or the most innovation and products, services, and variety. This Government knows Kiwi consumers deserve the best, and that\u2019s why we will unearth what\u2019s going on in these arrangements and act to ensure the most competitive markets\u2014not just in fuel, groceries, and building supplies but wherever they\u2019re needed in the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a4c44dbf4448f6bacb27308a7a65c9\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: How can Kiwis get involved in the next phase of the work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ea5ea3239e4b7b970d01e1dd3d098a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s time for Kiwi businesses that have experience in anti-competitive land agreements to start thinking about how the system could work best. Shortly, the Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment will be seeking feedback from anyone with experience and insights into how these agreements are working. With input from businesses small and large, we can determine what arrangements are out there and whether they\u2019re working for New Zealand consumers. Then, unlike the last Government, we can get cracking to get these markets working for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0ce7dcdc13b43a79ab070ce2245f22c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Cyclone Recovery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002262bbbe8f8ad84e6391ac3f966956158d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262bbbe8f8ad84e6391ac3f966956158d\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: How much of the cyclone recovery funding provided to the Hawke\u2019s Bay region for business support grants has been allocated to date, and can he confirm whether any funding that has not been paid out in grants will be returned to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00225641cf7b358947d8ba16e2522400f6e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225641cf7b358947d8ba16e2522400f6e8\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Associate Minister for Cyclone Recovery)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: Fa\u2018afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. On behalf of the Minister, the business support package to help businesses in cyclone-affected regions is led by the local delivery partners, who know the region best, supported by central government through the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE). The response in each area will be different, and this regionally led approach means the decisions made by the local agencies will be driven by the local needs in their communities. All applicants who have met the criteria have been or will be paid out. I am advised that, for the Hawke\u2019s Bay, $21.6 million of the allocated funding of $30.4 million available to support businesses in the region has so far been paid out to help with clean-up costs from the impact of the cyclone. The grants have been paid to around 1,500 businesses. These figures have not been finalised, with some outstanding grants yet to be fully processed. The policy, as we announced it when we released it, was that any remaining funding that has not been allocated will be returned to MBIE.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f3b222a1c044d3ac8afc8fdbe53910\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government seriously believe that the needs of businesses hit hard by Cyclone Gabrielle have been met by the regime they established, and, if not, what is the Government going to do about it, in particular that additional $8.8 million that has not yet been distributed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226124bf7ac604c28b3c527862907ad20\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government absolutely acknowledges that it is a tough time for our affected businesses right throughout the North Island who have been severely affected by these weather events. The distribution of business support grants is made by the local delivery partners and the criteria that was set by MBIE. We will ensure that we are supporting these businesses right throughout the recovery phase of the cyclone, and we will continue to keep a watching brief on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f717e6206743bba0e26d88609fb205\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the comments of the Hon Kieran McAnulty that among key factors contributing to the lack of funding delivery is \u201Cpeople\u2019s emotional capacity\u201D, and, if so, does the Minister believe that people\u2019s emotional capacity will be helped or hindered by the lack of distribution of these funds earmarked to support them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248663c945db8465a8f0d629d2a6b8f28\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I always agree with my ministerial colleagues, particularly when their comments are made in the context around communicating the support that\u2019s available to them. Right at the beginning of the cyclone, it was a difficult time for a lot of those businesses, and we had a role to play, through local delivery partners, to ensure that we communicated to them how they could access that business support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6de50b0a49647debf9131ce0c4eee3b\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4add3ec7eef40edbd9e01e0667f7d7f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000165\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d029c69b1f654b4790093246796628d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d029c69b1f654b4790093246796628d3\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s been a bit of a theme in politics over the last week. It\u2019s been a theme of the \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D versus the must-haves. For example, on that side of the House, access to medicine is a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D; on this side of the House, it\u2019s a must-have. On that side of the House, access to contraception is a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D\u2014let that sink in\u2014on this side of the House, it is a must-have. Listening to the debate on this bill on Tuesday evening, it sounded like the Opposition members were saying that the data on who is and who isn\u2019t accessing ACC is just a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D\u2014put out a request and see what you get. On this side of the House, we say that it is a must-have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI wanted to respond to some of the tensions that I heard in the House on that Tuesday night. The first is: request or require. There\u2019s a core question about whether data is a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D or whether it is a must-have. It\u2019s true that we will not be requiring, through legislation, data about every single aspect of Government, but there are issues where we must know the data, which is why we\u2019re requiring, as legislative directive, for data to be provided in relation to ACC access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe second question is what sort of data you are requiring and how you require it. Now, what we heard on Tuesday night was that we already have the information; that\u2019s what the Opposition was telling us: \u201CJust request it. Just put it out in your letter of expectation.\u201D But Jan Logie actually responded to this really well. She said that there\u2019s not information about access to all parts of the ACC scheme; there is more research needed. She also pointed out that it is different to require reporting to the House. In short, it is about broadening the content of data that\u2019s coming to us, and strengthening the weight of that data by ensuring reporting to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to talk about operationalising the data collection and reporting. I think it\u2019s very easy for us as parliamentarians here to request a variety of information. What we very rarely think about is how that lands with agency managers on the other side. It is very different, asking a manager for a snapshot or even a period of review, as opposed to creating systems that collect enduring data. There is a very valid reason for putting it within legislation. It allows greater reach and an investment in a robust data set. Data in this area is a must-have. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022605a8c3c792f4016bff9c67e1feee230\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022605a8c3c792f4016bff9c67e1feee230\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on Tama Potaka\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3986f7cb0b44d51b574ff70e9c6327e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3986f7cb0b44d51b574ff70e9c6327e\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Hine t\u016B, hine ora; hine noho, hine mate. Talofa lafa. Taeao manuia aiga. Happy Samoan Language Week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ELook, there have been a few winners this week. Speakers have reincarnated themselves using wondrous fiction and weird hashtag bluster to persuade us of unconvincing statute making - based whakapapa profiling. Aotearoa New Zealand is not built on unbalanced leanings, which the Government seeks to reshape currently using cultural orthodoxy through legislation. No, wh\u0101nau, it is built on personal responsibility and an absolute aspiration for safety, prosperity, and success\u2014including around accident prevention. Requiring agencies to, and letting departments, pick a specific group in society based on one whakapapa profile and then report on it, no matter how worthy that group is, seems to be a step\u2014nay, a stumble\u2014too far at this point of our young country\u2019s catharsis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThanks to my taokete Minita Henare for presenting this bill, which the National Party and I continue to respectfully oppose. Since my last comments on this matter, I\u2019ve been lucky enough not to be involved in any accidents and complete more ACC claims\u2014no injury visits to Peter Hunt, physio, at Central Physiotherapy Clinic on Pembroke Street in Hamilton West; no acupuncture treatment over madam Su\u2019s in my Chiefs brother Jamie Strange\u2019s electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThis run of good luck has been enhanced with me declining the recent parliamentary rugby team\u2019s invitation to play the South African Buffalos, or avoiding buffaloes and potholes laced across Whatawhata Road in Dinsdale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272adf1ce04f246a1a8633d10fce2e6e0\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Hard to avoid the potholes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f81b96d95444c2a9dbc484016a8021a\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. The bill seeks to legislatively require the ACC to report annually\u2014yes, annually\u2014on how M\u0101ori and other populations are accessing the scheme, and on identified disparities and barriers to access. Why? Why not trust the ACC management team, or do it by ministerial directive or good governance rather than legislation? We could even match it up with the census\u2014if it was reliable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI wonder how much resource is required\u2014how many more bureaucrats are needed\u2014to run this work stream. Maybe we get one of the big four to provide a framework, a recruitment agency to find more staffers, and a PR company to run a barbecue down at Mount Smart to ask accident questions of M\u0101ori punters attending the next Warriors game. The resource implications of the proposed legislation are unclear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAs you know, as one of the few M\u0101ori here in the House today\u2014I see Soraya over there; e mihi ana ki a koe te tuahine\u2014I feel like the last butter chicken pie sitting in the BP warmer on a beautiful Te K\u016Biti afternoon. Everyone\u2019s looking to me to see if I\u2019ve got enough pastry; enough chicken. Or am I dry and pasty instead? Is there something wrong with me? Why force an agency or department to legislatively report on something they\u2019ve previously reported on, voluntarily, between 1982 and 2006 and can do so again with ministerial directives or trust in the actual ACC governance team to do the right thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIt goes against limited government, it goes against the principle of free and frank advice, and it demands further resource across the whole of Government that is now carrying a very growing and heavy debt burden. Demographic projections reinforce that that debt will be borne disproportionately by the very M\u0101ori and their mokopuna who apparently this legislation seeks to protect. Every fanciful idea like this costs money that is funded by more debt or tax that the Government is scheduling\u2014say, a levy on wh\u0101nau trusts and the very iwi trusts who woke up last week; they\u2019re facing 39 cents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EFolks, I won\u2019t repeat but can reiterate: I don\u2019t need another statistics inquiry about my life when I get injured or about how long my showers are taking\u2014albeit I did have a cat wash last night in the parliamentary gym and missed all the hazardous moments drifting in through that facility. Uncles Woodhouse and Watts refer to this being a well-meaning waste of House time, and I can\u2019t do anything but tautoko that view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s yet to be evidenced that we require a special report, but apparently we need one. Yet women, transgender people, and other population groups do not need a special demographic inquiry and reporting through this legislation. But M\u0101ori? Yes, we need a new report. I feel like I\u2019m starting to be a caged animal at the Hamilton Zoo in Rotokauri\u2014studied, researched, and assessed on a regular basis by bureaucrats and perhaps more consultants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAt this moment\u2014in the year of our multi-lingual atua, 2023\u2014spending more money on gathering statistics for statistics\u2019 sake is not good enough. We don\u2019t need another clunky effort to count M\u0101ori. What we need are better outcomes by encouraging community-driven efforts through Wh\u0101nau Ora and other programmes originated through National, or events like Iron M\u0101ori or the national Waka Ama Championships, or ACC\u2019s investment arm looking at social bonds based around injury prevention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI honour my admired and esteemed peer, the Minister for ACC, the Hon Peeni Henare, for his dynamic and honourable vigour in presenting this bill\u2014but oppose it today. As Scribe would say,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EYou pick me up every time that I fell\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EWhen I was going through hell, you told me that I would prevail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn a world of slip, trip, and fall, we don\u2019t need whakapapa profiling legislation to make us better; we need good investment and good governance to prevail. T\u014Df\u0101 soifua. Ka kite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u002209f5d90e3e224c6eb96c87cc6ebdc23b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209f5d90e3e224c6eb96c87cc6ebdc23b\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s great to speak in the House this afternoon. I was enlightened by\u2014I just heard one phrase there: butter chicken pie. That got me excited! It made me think I need to avoid some of those pie shops down The Parade in Island Bay. Thanks to the previous speaker, Tama Potaka, for highlighting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m taking a short call on this bill by the Hon Peeni Henare in Samoan Language Week. That made me think\u2014one thing I did do yesterday was I had chat with a good friend of mine Taulalo Fiso, who was in the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2014ACC\u2014prior to 2010. We had a good chat about this. We weren\u2019t there to talk about this, but I knew that I might be talking about this today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ESo, look, I just want to reiterate a couple of things for the House in terms of what this bill is going to achieve, and that is to really improve the focus on and the understanding of how people with personal injuries are accessing the ACC scheme and, secondly, to increase the transparency of the levels of access to the scheme\u2014the key point here is to look at, or include, any disparities in accessing the scheme by M\u0101ori and identified population groups\u2014and, number three, to give better effect to the purpose of weekly compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s something that Taulalo and I had a good chat about, because that\u2019s the key thing in this: it will bringing forward the eligibility for the minimum rate of weekly compensation from that sixth week to the second week of the claimant\u2019s incapacity to work. I think that\u2019s key to this, and it will impact 10,000 New Zealanders. I think that that\u2019s an amazing contribution that this bill will achieve. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3833236ec9449c6a0d19cf36d6e0f5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3833236ec9449c6a0d19cf36d6e0f5c\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real pleasure to be speaking on this bill, the Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I want to acknowledge that at the time of the drafting of the bill I was not a member of the Education and Workforce Committee, so I do thank the committee for their work and especially the submitters, who took the time to put their views forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the purpose of the bill is to improve the focus of and the understanding of how people with those personal injuries can get access to the ACC scheme and have help earlier, but also to improve the transparency and the levels of access to the scheme, because sometimes the very schemes that are there are not clearly understood by many people in our community\u2014because of the languages and the understanding, sometimes, of what they are entitled to. There are disparities in the access to the ACC scheme, specifically for M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and other groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe amendment bill will give better effect, specifically to the weekly compensation. It is not about the Government being noble\u2014as I heard from other speakers the other evening\u2014but it is the right thing to do to especially allow for those who need compensation earlier, down from the six weeks and that long wait of another four weeks. They can actually receive it in the second week. That is the main change. So it is an important bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022e083e629e74e44c5a942af6d1aaf3630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e083e629e74e44c5a942af6d1aaf3630\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I always love it when the Speaker pronounces my difficult last name correctly, so thank you for that. All this talk of pies has got me quite excited! I know people say the Prime Minister\u2019s a real pie man. He might be the sausage-roll man, but I love my pies. Paul Eagle and Tama Potaka were talking about them. I just want to admit that I had another one for lunch today, and it was fantastic. On this bill, the Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, at its third reading, I\u2019m very glad that I didn\u2019t burn myself with the pie, which is quite fortunate. It was a bacon and egg one. If it had been mince and cheese, it could have been a little bit different!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7f072b39b546279d2bc69b31b7b9e6\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CAlways blow on the pie.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e11e5352bde41baa11cdbcfaebdc525\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Eagle, for the advice to always blow on it. I usually do. Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWe stand here talking about this bill, and I am just wondering whether there are other things that we could be talking about except for a bill which probably doesn\u2019t need legislation to deal with it. We do note that previously this reporting had been done from 1982 to 2006, when the then Clark Government stopped that. If the idea was to gather statistics, potentially just doing what is necessary to turn that back on could have been the more appropriate way to go about it. We do work through this, though. I note that there is a provision in here to move the compensation back from starting in the sixth week to the second week. In principle, I think that\u2019s probably a fairly reasonable step to take, because, if you\u2019ve injured yourself, whether you\u2019ve burnt yourself with a pie or you\u2019ve twisted your ankle in a pothole and can\u2019t go to work, or you\u2019ve spent too long in a hot shower\u2014six minutes potentially; you\u2019ve got a bit of scalding and you need to take time off work\u2014it\u2019s probably good that you do get those earnings sooner rather than later, especially in the middle of a cost of living crisis, when people are really struggling to pay the rent or pay their new mortgage rates which they have just switched on to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo I think that is probably a good step in that regard, but I do question why we are here debating something which, as I have mentioned before\u2014whether it really did need a bill to adjust and whether it\u2019s something that could have been adjusted some other way. My colleague, the very astute and always entertaining Tama Potaka, talked about why his whakapapa is the thing that is being looked at and how he feels a little bit affronted about why he\u2019s being treated as another statistic. I won\u2019t comment any further on that other than to recognise what Tama has said. I don\u2019t know if people ever do statistics about me\u2014probably not\u2014but, if they did, I would just like to think that you could collect that information through the channels that were already established. Also, what are you then using that information for? It hasn\u2019t really been shown through this bill that there will be any definitive outcomes through that. There is nothing to show that certain whakapapa have more difficulties accessing ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m at a bit of a loss, and I would think, if you wanted to improve the functioning of ACC, there are probably better ways and better use of the House\u2019s time as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fac82e2aa704c608112d25144a21018\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Such as?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aced23ea5ece472eb52a3ef03c66db4a\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as opposed to pushing through this bill\u2014such as speeding up the bureaucratic process, because we do know that people do spend a lot of time. They call up, they get caught in bureaucratic tangles, they get bounced around on phones, backwards and forwards to Wellington, back to the ACC office. For people who are sitting there, who have recently been injured, and who are looking at a loss of their income, for what would have been up to six weeks, now looking like that will come down to two\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1ec7c662225457abb4cddae61f04939\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Stick to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4412b3801864c278e42dfd7ab9b08cf\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Stick to the bill? That is actually in the bill, thank you. It does go from six to two. I appreciate the kind suggestion, but it is here. It\u2019s also in my bill notes; so there you go! For the people there, you could speed it up; there are other ways that we could have used this time, as opposed to producing this. I would really be focusing on the bureaucracy and the operational processes within ACC to make sure that that is being sped up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThese are vulnerable people that we\u2019re dealing with. These are people who have injured themselves. They most likely have dependants or family to look after. They probably don\u2019t have income-continuity insurance, and they are faced with a potential loss of livelihood and all of the negative consequences that come with that. How are they going to put food on the table? How are they going to pay the rent? How are they going to buy the kids\u2019 footy boots? How are they going to do all of those things that they used to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211df1500d43e4364abb4b1d775236caa\u0022\u003ETama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: And inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204d74c11af914af096c45a461e4b0c4e\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: And they are also suffering with inflation. Tama, that is right. Is it not better that we speed up that process instead of wasting all of the parliamentarians\u2019 time\u2014and, no doubt, all of the hard-working officials\u2019 time in ACC, drafting and coming up with legislation that isn\u2019t necessarily required? Shouldn\u2019t we have said to them, \u201CLook, this is what the issue is: it takes far too long to work through stuff. Can you have a look at your operational processes, look at where there\u2019s a bit of wastage, look at where there\u2019s duplication, look at where we could speed things up, and let\u2019s focus on that.\u201D? You know what would also be a really good idea? Let\u2019s look: you\u2019ve got six steps here, for instance\u2014just being hypothetical, Madam Speaker. Shall we look at what\u2019s involved in each of those and then set time targets around that? OK. Do we then want to put some sort of compliance process on top of that? That would then make sure that everyone is hitting those benchmarks, and if they aren\u2019t, what are the remedial processes that we need to implement to make sure that people are working a little bit faster? And, ultimately, the person who\u2019s had the injury is then getting the payment faster, and they\u2019re also not stuck with the uncertainty and stress that they already have by having to spend hours on the telephone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E So I would have liked to see us focus more on that. I note that we haven\u2019t. Our position, on this side of the House, is that we see this bill as unnecessary. We think there are better things that we could have focused on and that we should be prioritising. As a result, we will oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb5b2525ed24b9e930fb589edf2476c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb5b2525ed24b9e930fb589edf2476c\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a real pleasure to stand and take the last of the last calls on the Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. There\u2019s something very circular about this conversation in that there\u2019s a feeling of completedness when you can come back to an election manifesto promise and say to the electorate that we have delivered upon it. That\u2019s really important that we can do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAnd it\u2019s really interesting: over the last few days, we\u2019ve started to talk about what we will restore or what we will cut and how things might look. And so it\u2019s really great that this bill is a really good example of how we\u2019ve had\u2014one aspect of this bill is about restoring and replenishing entitlements that have been taken away. And we hear the Opposition talk every day about recommitting to cutting things, and then we have to come along and restore them. And, you know, that\u2019s the tiring and wasteful bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the confusion, I guess, about the intent of the data that we are requiring ACC to gather now and the discipline that comes with that requirement. The interesting thing is it was suggested that we should just trust the officials to get on with it. Well, that would be great, except the politicians\u2014it doesn\u2019t matter which side of the House we\u2019re talking about\u2014interfere, and that means that we have had interruptions to what is a really important aspect of data gathering and evidence, which is about it being longitudinal. And so, actually, the really important thing is this helps the officials to start to build a really strong database and it gets the politics out of it. And what it means is that we can return ACC to its original purpose of assisting all New Zealanders who have had an injury, not just claimants. I wish to thank the two Ministers who had helped to shepherd this bill through the House, and I\u2019m very proud to commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002245420532a6164b908db7c6d7e3b10503\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245420532a6164b908db7c6d7e3b10503\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Fa\u2018afetai tele lava. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226be06e40d2224e6e98f50cc2713b1a69\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 41\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 31; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000212\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f2b12a8134c44f4b7c2cbee4e759c4a\u0022\u003EBusiness Payment Practices Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022065d0d7916ee40f7bff23dffa594241f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227998aeb5269446b0af67bac844b74aa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227998aeb5269446b0af67bac844b74aa6\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister for Small Business): \u003C/span\u003EI present a legislative statement on the Business Payment Practices Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f92bf362d74a44e0b595dd69ced15a89\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c686d2a3344f44aad1d9ff2fe0c7d9\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Business Payment Practices Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker. As the New Zealand economy recovers from COVID-19 and the recent extreme weather events that we\u2019ve seen, particularly on the East Coast, it is more important than ever that we support small-business owners and operators, who are the bedrock of our country\u2019s economy and also so ingrained within our local communities. Timely payment for goods and services delivered is crucial for the financial health of any business, and especially New Zealand\u2019s small businesses. Recent years have seen some improvements in business payment times, but this movement, while positive, is marginal and low. Since taking on the small business portfolio, I\u2019ve heard from many small businesses right across New Zealand that delays in receiving payment are hurting their cash flow, increasing their stress, and inhibiting their business growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELarger firms are often set in a position to take it or leave it when making payments and are making use of the advantage of their size. That advantages themselves at the expense of those smaller suppliers. When this happens, small suppliers often feel unable to ask for more reasonable terms, powerless for fear of losing their income. Furthermore, when the bill payer doesn\u2019t meet the terms they\u2019ve agreed to, the small business affected may not be able to do much about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EResearch from Xero is interesting. It says that almost half of all invoices are paid late in New Zealand. Again, the perception of a power imbalance often is too great for the small-business owner to risk upsetting their large customer. If small businesses rely on large payers for a lot of their revenue, they will be anxious not to rock the boat as their livelihood may well be at stake. This is preventing a significant segment of our business ecosystem from realising their full potential. The effects of poor payment behaviours can run through supply chains and have consequences for the broader economy\u2014for example, higher cost on capital or unnecessary insolvencies. In 2019, the Small Business Council reported that, among the big issues facing small businesses, it considered timely payments was top of that list. The council said it had problems with payment practices, and they found that they were particularly difficult to deal with given the current tools available to them and a new approach was needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe bill being debated today will deliver that change. The Business Payment Practices Bill will establish a disclosure regime that brings transparency to business, to business payments and practices in New Zealand. Small businesses will have better information to inform their decision making when engaging in new customers. They will be able to decide who they wish to do business with. Large businesses who care about their reputations will want to ensure that their business practices stand up to scrutiny. The bill requires entities with more than $33 million in revenue and $10 million in third-party expenditure to have to disclose information about their payment practices twice each year. The Government needs to lead by example, so the bill will also apply to Government entities just as much as the private sector. Disclosed information will include information relating to payment times, reporting entities, payment terms, and conditions. This information will be submitted and stored on a publicly available, searchable register administered by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE). The register will be free for users to access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to take a moment to thank the people and organisations that took their time to submit on this piece of legislation, and the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee for their work that they did on this bill. I am pleased that the committee has unanimously recommended some important changes to make this legislation more effective. These include more clarity on what counts as payment information, more specificity around which reporting entities the new transparency regime will apply to, measures to minimise compliance costs, and a range of technical improvements. I thank them for their work, and those officials that have supported their work to happen as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne other important change the committee has recommended was to provide a six-month transitional period before reporting entities must start reporting and collecting this information. I acknowledge that many reporting entities will need to make changes, some of them quite technical, to their payment systems to be able to adapt to the new transparency requirements. This is unavoidable. To make it easier for reporting entities to provide the required transparency, the select committee has suggested that initially only reporting entities with $100 million of annual revenue will need to report. Many of these companies will already be reporting in Australia, which has a similar requirement in place. So they will need to be well placed to extend this transparency to their New Zealand operators, and, to be quite frank, that\u2019s only fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for the appointment of a registrar who will be responsible for establishing and maintaining the register and the associated compliance and enforcement functions. It will also provide infringements, penalties, and criminal offences for any contraventions of its obligations. The bill\u2019s penalties would, of course, only apply to the most wilful and problematic offending. In Australia, which operates a similar regime, reporting entities were provided with a 12-month compliance holiday before its regime\u2019s compliance tools came into effect. We are not proposing that here, but, none the less, the primary compliance lever will still be reporting entities\u2019 desire to enhance their reputation as good business operators who pay fair terms. Reporting entities that offer good payment terms will want to shout this out from the rooftops, no doubt. The transparency this regime requires will enable them to be able to do that. Favourable comparisons will be made against reporting entities that offer less desirable payment terms or are slow to provide the required transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EImportant details of the bill will be determined through secondary legislation. Most importantly, the bill\u2019s regulations will specify the exact information reporting entities will need to disclose. MBIE officials are working on those draft regulations now and, to this end, are consulting with stakeholders, subject matter experts in both New Zealand and Australia, where a similar regime is already in place. I\u2019m confident that the regulations will achieve the right balance, making sure that useful information is made available to small businesses while also keeping in mind minimising compliance costs for large ones and enabling the smoothest possible implementation phase. I intend to publish the regulations as soon as possible after the bill receives Royal assent. This will ensure that reporting entities have as long as possible to get to grips with the new requirements and make any required systems or process changes that they need to do to IT systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to conclude by acknowledging the select committee, the department officials, the select committee staff for their hard work, and for all those who took the time to submit on this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00229fa4ca77907049f9b0cebe2d7fafd5f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fa4ca77907049f9b0cebe2d7fafd5f6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002263ea66b1cd13458497120017305619cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263ea66b1cd13458497120017305619cc\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be talking on the Business Payment Practices Bill in its second reading. This is an interesting bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I\u2019ve just got to congratulate the Minister, because this is her first piece of legislation that she\u2019s had to talk about in respect of small businesses. Newly minted, and here she is, up today, little bloop at the start that mucked it up a little bit, but, none the less, trying to put forward a bill for supporting small businesses. And, of course, it wasn\u2019t her idea; this came from her predecessor, the Hon Stuart Nash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f59bba01c8ac4423b72e781db39a598a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3b18f629204101a0d813e1d6e78832\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Nash, that\u2019s right. So, anyway, the Minister\u2019s got the wonderful opportunity of actually trying to put through a bill that might support small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, this is a Government that has just set about killing small businesses. How many things have they done to add compliance costs, to make it harder? Last night, we did the WorkSafe rule: now anyone, even if you\u2019ve got a business with one person, can request a business to set up a health and safety committee and have a representative\u2014one person. So, rather than talk to a boss or something, we\u2019ve now got this situation. And this is just the cascade. We\u2019ve just done the ACC one. There is a cascade of legislation that this Government has set about for the last six years to make it so much harder for small business. And that is the issue. If the Minister actually got out and talked to people, rather than saying she\u2019s been in contact, or whatever, that is the single-biggest issue for small-business owners. They just feel like they\u2019re getting socked all the time. The issue is that they believe that the Government thinks they are just a pile of cash for the Government to go and raid, to take a whole lot of money off them and spend it on a whole load of rubbishy projects, and that\u2019s what\u2019s happened over the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f376d90fd9a74bcb91ef59f5587a0fdb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: On that note, can the member come back to the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a552a99b744da0b7ff8309d0dbc002\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m very happy to, Madam Speaker. This bill is all about intent, it\u2019s all about being seen to do something for small businesses at the end of a six-year-long period, and it is about trying to work out and assist businesses around business payment systems. The issue is that the bill doesn\u2019t actually deal with the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe are opposed to this bill because, on a number of counts\u2014and it really is a bad piece of legislation to try and deal with the issue of poor payments. We recognise that businesses need to have prompt payments, but this is not the solution to it. We\u2019ve done our best in the select committee to improve it, because we know that this bill will go through the House because Labour dominate Parliament. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve worked very proactively in the committee, and a number of the amendments that the Minister spoke of were generated by National Party members. That\u2019s because, if this thing is to go through, we want to make sure it at least has some reasonable conditions to it to make it try and actually get to some point of being useful. But it will not solve the big issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe biggest issue is its focus on large companies. Perhaps, the worst-paying group in New Zealand is actually Government departments. We spend $42 billion as a Government, and if you talk to anyone who has dealings with the Government, actually, Government departments, in the main, are often slow payers. All it would take is for the affected Ministers to tell their departments to make payments on time, and you wouldn\u2019t need a piece of legislation to do that. That\u2019s the first bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that it\u2019s focused on large businesses. For instance, there are certain agencies that are slow payers, and one of those particularly is the building and construction sector. That is why the National Government changed the rules and implemented some new rules to make sure that contractors particularly were protected when it came to liquidations and those types of events, because that\u2019s really dealing with the nub of the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat this bill requires is large companies\u2014and, often, they are good-paying companies; it\u2019s actually the smaller companies that have got cash-flow problems that are the ones that are slow-paying. It is focused on the large ones, and it requires them, every six months, to send some information in to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), and MBIE are then going to set up a register. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, I start to get a little bit worried at this point, because the reality is, first of all, that such a system has been in place in England and Australia. The Australians put it in place about three years ago and are currently reviewing it because it is not working. In fact, the evidence from Australia that having put this regime in place, which is what this is modelled on, has actually led, on some occasions, to even slower payments occurring to smaller businesses\u2014slower payments; it actually resulted in a worse outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons for that\u2014and I think we\u2019ll find out, in time, from the Australian review of it\u2014is that there\u2019s an assumption, because many MPs from Labour don\u2019t actually come from a business background, that every business person sits around in their office in Howick, in Eket\u0101huna, and in Mataura in the South Island, thinking, \u201CYou know, I\u2019m very worried about my business; I\u2019m very worried about how I\u2019m going to get paid. Oh, guess what I\u2019m going to do! I\u2019m going to go on to an MBIE website and have a check as to whether someone is going to pay me on time.\u201D I say to you that the register will be out of date immediately as soon as it\u2019s published. So that\u2019s the first thing: the reliance on data that will be out of date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that business owners don\u2019t sit there waiting to go on an MBIE website to see whether, in fact, that\u2019s the source of truth in New Zealand, because, normally, business people are a lot more busy than that. If you do want to get a credit assessment, guess what, you ring up one of the four credit assessment firms in New Zealand that have been operating for years and that have history of doing it. Centrix put out a survey this morning, and guess what! To get an up-to-date, comprehensive assessment on a business, as of today, is 33 bucks\u2014$33. That\u2019s all it costs, right? But hey presto, MBIE now\u2014and this is what really scared us in the select committee\u2014rather than going and saying to one of those four providers, \u201CGuess what! You\u2019ve got a good service, you\u2019ve been doing it for years, and, actually, you know what you do, because you\u2019re in the business of providing independent credit assessments. Why don\u2019t we contract with you and we might even post some of the data on our website?\u201D\u2014even if they want to run their own website; I\u2019m talking about MBIE\u2014what they want to do is set up their own system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo we asked some of the own-credit places, \u201CWhat would it cost to set up a system to do this?\u201D The estimate was $3 million to $5 million. And guess what! IT projects\u2014hmm, yeah, they have a bit of risk and Governments are not particularly good at it, so you could probably assume at least at the top of that spectrum. And then the ongoing costs are about $1.5 million to $2 million. On top of that, MBIE are going to go out and hire a whole lot of people\u2014a big swag of them\u2014because, of course, they\u2019ve got to report every six months; put it on the website. So we\u2019re going to create a new department at MBIE. Why wouldn\u2019t you just go and get the 33 bucks? I think the biggest thing MBIE could do is to tell people where they could go and get an up-to-date assessment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the prime stuff. It didn\u2019t work in Australia particularly, and it\u2019s a system that\u2019s going to be Government-run, and, of course, no one follows what Government does when you\u2019re in business, because if you want to go and get something, you go and get the source of truth from the right people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the issue with this whole thing is that we are trying to solve something. What we should have been doing is focusing on is those companies, those industries that have specific issues and dealing with it. I would suggest to you that the Government agencies are the number one that Ministers should have dealt with. But we should also deal with specific sectors. This is a poor outcome. I\u2019ve spoken to a number of the business agencies, and when they start to hear this is going to cost a couple of thousand dollars for small businesses to operate and to do this\u2014this is a poor outcome. That is the reason why we\u2019re opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc0ae34609a4d859eb9a8c1bb6f286e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc0ae34609a4d859eb9a8c1bb6f286e\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. There is nothing more than that speech by Andrew Bayly that tells us who the National Party really cares about. Their interests are in the big players in our economy, in the larger companies, and they don\u2019t want to look after the small businesses that are actually propping up middle New Zealand. They don\u2019t want to look after the interests of our mum and pop businesses; they just want to look after the interests of all big companies, the ones with over $100 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI think this bill goes to the heart of the difference in values of the two parties. This is a bill that makes sure that we protect our small companies and businesses, the ones that make up 80 percent of New Zealand companies. It is making sure that they can go to a publicly available register to make sure that, if they\u2019re going to engage with a bigger company, they can see their business payment practices and whether they\u2019ve paid their suppliers on time, and whether they have a good track record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI do want to thank the select committee as well\u2014the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, the best select committee around here\u2014for making sure that we have worked in the detail during the select committee process as well. As the Minister has already mentioned, we\u2019ve now implemented a six-month transitional period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EBut one thing I really wanted to talk about was that $10 million in expenditure threshold to make sure that the big companies that we do see and that have to come in and declare their payment-practice time lines on this register are the ones who actually have a big market share in spending here in New Zealand. We were given some of those examples, in select committee, where it could be a digital company where the majority of their so-called bills will go towards paying people\u2019s wages or paying Government taxes or paying other things, and we wanted to make sure that their suppliers were actually a significant part of the business\u2019s expenditure as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003ESo this is a very sensible bill. We\u2019ve made the relevant changes. We\u2019ve listened to submitters, and we\u2019ve listened to small businesses\u2014it was actually their idea\u2014who wanted the bill in the first place. That\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002222c2ac4ee21740f798a4f9ccf2108ce3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222c2ac4ee21740f798a4f9ccf2108ce3\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Madam Speaker. Well, I must say I\u2019m surprised and somewhat disappointed by the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. I have watched Naisi Chen as the chair of that committee, and I thought she was better than that speech, and one of the disappointing aspects of that\u2014and, typically, in a gaslighting sort of theme\u2014is that because somebody doesn\u2019t agree with the solution that is being proposed, they either don\u2019t understand the problem or they\u2019re in the pockets of fat cat business people. I think that\u2019s the most disappointing aspect of what Naisi Chen has just told us, because, actually, the committee worked extremely constructively through this process, and certainly better than was described by that speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe select committee now has an even, three-three split on it of three Government members and three Opposition members. Therefore, if some consensus can\u2019t be reached, bills being considered by that committee would be reported back unamended, and, actually, that\u2019s not what we want to do. We want to make sure that we are constructive, even if we don\u2019t support legislation. So the committee has reported back to say that we couldn\u2019t agree on whether the bill should pass, but we bring the bill back in an improved form to allow this place to consider it on its merits, and, as Mr Bayly said, it will pass because the Government has a majority. But we have worked extremely constructively even though we didn\u2019t support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I will agree with the Minister on the case for change, and this is the point: we understand the problem. I want to quote or paraphrase from the submission that we received from Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, an organisation of which I\u2019m a member. They did survey their members and they said that extended payment terms for members\u2019 clients do \u201Cexacerbate cash flow issues, place strain on business relationships and, in some cases, impact business solvency.\u201D Members told them that the power in the relationship tends to reside with the large businesses and their payment practices, despite that, \u201Care unlikely to impact a decision to do business with them.\u201D And that\u2019s inherently the problem: smaller businesses may be aware from their past experience that larger businesses are not good payers, but nevertheless they rely heavily on them for their business and are caught in a\u2014it almost sounds like an unhealthy relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo there is a problem\u2014there\u2019s no doubt about that\u2014and it\u2019s appropriate, I think, that we should be debating this bill hard on the heels of the ACC bill that\u2019s just passed into law, which I described as a well-meaning waste of time. So is this, because it will not achieve the goal it purports to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EChartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand did cite the international evidence for that very purpose, because they presented that since Australia had put in place a regime\u2014and the Minister describes this as similar to Australia\u2019s. Well, it\u2019s not, really, because the threshold for reporting is much, much higher and their problem was much, much greater. One in four big businesses in Australia is taking more than 120 days to pay their small-business suppliers. They didn\u2019t find that out; they already knew that when they put that regime in place. But the evidence from both Australia and the United Kingdom, who have a similar regime, is that it hasn\u2019t worked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIf the goal was to improve payment timeliness by big businesses, it\u2019s failed; not only that, but in Australia, it\u2019s got slightly worse. So the idea that transparency would be some kind of cash-flow disinfectant for larger businesses so that they might be named and shamed into compliance is actually not borne out by the international evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a bit of a pragmatist: frankly, if it works, do it; if it doesn\u2019t, don\u2019t\u2014particularly when it comes at a cost. As Mr Bayly mentioned, there are significant costs, firstly, on the Crown for the establishment of the regime, the IT platform, and the reporting networks that are required to be got along with that, and, again, we\u2019re not sure exactly what it is because we haven\u2019t seen what the regulations will look like. We certainly have better guidance from the bill coming out of select committee than when it went in, but that\u2019s not the full cost by a long chalk. In fact, the vast bulk of the effort and cost is going to fall on businesses, as usual. Now, one might think that was appropriate if, indeed, it was going to improve things. The international evidence, and my prediction for New Zealand, is that it won\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, $33 million is the threshold in New Zealand, but, as Mr Bayly said, 33 is a very pertinent number in this regard, because that\u2019s all it takes to get a credit report in New Zealand\u2014$33. For that amount, a small business, who perhaps has not had a trading history with a larger organisation, can get a credit score, company information, credit default information, and any insolvencies and judgments that have been entered against the company or its directors, and it can make credit inquiries\u2014for $33. That is already in place\u2014that\u2019s all this needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI would also add that, actually, the problem that we have in this country isn\u2019t as great as Australia\u2019s. The information provided to the select committee was that, while there are problems with credit payment timeliness, it is the Government that is one of the worst offenders, but our average days to pay is actually pretty good. It\u2019s under 30 days\u2014that\u2019s the average. Obviously, there are outliers, but there are also reasons for doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOne of the things that the National members on the committee worked hard to do was to make it a little bit more sensible, and we\u2019ve got three concessions that I think are quite important to mention. Firstly, we\u2019re talking about trade supply. The bill wasn\u2019t clear about what on earth we should be asking large businesses to provide in respect of payments, but for a service organisation\u2014take a hospital, for example\u2014about 75 percent of that cost base is going to be staff. If one includes those payments in the calculation, the days to pay are, basically, zero\u2014you\u2019re paid on pay day\u2014and that could materially skew the average credit timeliness data. So wages and salaries had to be taken out. Rent, bank fees, and utility bills\u2014which are always paid, effectively, often by direct debit\u2014could also skew timeliness data. They are now going to be left out. So we\u2019re talking about credit terms on trade only, because that\u2019s really what we want to know: how good is an organisation doing on that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EDisputed invoices: it\u2019s not unusual, and sometimes they can be quite prolonged. Even moderately sized invoices\u2014if they\u2019re taking months to resolve because of concerns about the quality of the work being provided, or whether the service or good has been provided at all, again, it could affect payment term calculations. So they are also being excluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe had, as Naisi Chen mentioned\u2014and, in fact, was claiming credit for it in a way\u2014this minimum threshold of when companies are required to report. The original bill specified a minimum of $5\u00A0million for all creditor accounts. We got\u2014finally\u2014the committee to agree to go to $10 million for that, because that\u2019s a much better proxy for the trade creditor\u2019s proportion of a company with $33\u00A0million of turnover. But I can tell you that it was like pulling teeth to get the Labour members\u2014and, indeed, it needed the perhaps less than idle threat of returning the bill back unamended had this very sensible change not been made, and it was made and suggested because the National members of the committee are accountants and merchant bankers and business owners, not unionists and lecturers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe did get it in a better shape, so we are bringing it back to this House for its consideration. I thank the submitters, many of whom agree with me that this is a well-meaning waste of time, and we won\u2019t support it. We\u2019ll continue to oppose it. But I can also tell the House that, when the National Government comes into office at the end of the year and it is established that the process won\u2019t work, we will be removing the burdens on small and large businesses that are dead-weight costs on our economy where the costs of doing business far outweigh the benefits to it\u2014and that\u2019s coming very soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00228d79f82d8572471380cad5a290fb1a0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d79f82d8572471380cad5a290fb1a0d\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E This change will be good for small business. I\u2019ve been a small-business owner, where I had staff and contractors, between five and 25 people at any one time, and a turnover, occasionally, of more than a million dollars. I learnt very quickly that cash flow is incredibly important to small business, and being across my cash flow was a way, at precarious times, to stay afloat. It was the number one discipline in running a small business. I would have welcomed a scheme like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI also worked for an international organisation that quite callously changed its payment terms from one week or two weeks to the four- to six-week minimum\u2014whatever it could get away with. It didn\u2019t matter how that impacted on the trade suppliers; those trade suppliers were a widget in the system when it came to that international organisation, and it made life very, very difficult for them. So I\u2019ve seen the impact from both ends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI think the National Party missed the point, really, that this is not about small businesses paying money to go and get a credit check; it is about incentivising the right behaviours from big business. What this bill does is it rewards good payment terms. That, in itself, drives good behaviours\u2014that\u2019s the point of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other change, actually, that I don\u2019t think National can take full credit for is the change to the $10 million threshold on expenditure. That was something agreed to by all of us as a committee, and, certainly, as a small-business owner, I understood that making this change and making this scheme proportionate so that it didn\u2019t cast a net a too widely was really important. So we worked very collegially with the members of the other side of the House to make sure that we did have a fit for purpose scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo this is great for small business. I\u2019m not sure why the National Party don\u2019t want to back small business. I\u2019ve been a small-business owner, I know how important cash flow is, and this will make a real difference to small business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaf3699914b64729aceb4711b715e7ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaf3699914b64729aceb4711b715e7ba\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to speak to the second reading of the Business Payment Practices Bill. I wasn\u2019t in the select committee, but I don\u2019t think it takes much to look through the bill and to see how silly it really is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s intention is to improve transparency about business-to-business payment terms and practices, such as the amount of time it takes for entities to pay their suppliers. The bill would require entities to report on their payment practices twice a year if they have revenue over $33 million. And this is where the silliness of the Government is visible to see: revenue over $33 million. Most small businesses employ up to 20 staff, and this bill won\u2019t help them one little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI talk to small-business owners every day and ask them how they have felt they\u2019ve been treated over the last five or six years, and they are hurting; they think that they\u2019ve been treated with utter contempt. And then you ask them, \u201CWhat about this Business Payment Practices Bill?\u201D and explain it to them, and they just shake their head and laugh. I listened to Mr Bayly before and he had the temerity to mention that very few Labour people have owned businesses. And I heard the outcry\u2014I heard the outcry\u2014but the outcry was all in the past tense: \u201CI used to own a business.\u201D \u201CI owned a business.\u201D\u2014\u201CI owned a business.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226acfdc494fce4f41a4b48ea61a54310c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because we are MPs. Our job is here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222681a6372cb42e8aa1542d8f482ae8d\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE\u003C/span\u003E: Try and do it\u2014well, you might need to go back to the business in October, because it is a lot harder\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227230c44b7a72452dbb8103220ba79011\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236563b1748374c93a08a49ab496a6d39\u0022\u003ECHRIS BAILLIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to do business now than in the old days. The fact that similar schemes introduced in Australia and the UK have shown no noticeable improvement in payment practices should raise concern, and Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have admitted that they don\u2019t know the scale of what the issue is. So there might be a chance that business owners actually don\u2019t really want to do this\u2014hurt other businesses and their staff on purpose. The bill is designed to keep up the appearance that the Government cares about small business, but it is actually doing nothing to help. Once again, it is a solution looking for a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EWhen introducing the bill to the House, Stuart Nash stated, \u201CSmall-business owners in New Zealand continue to report that delays receiving payments are hurting cash flow, increasing stress levels, and inhibiting their business growth.\u201D It was as if the biggest problem that small business is facing is payment from big business, and it just showed a complete ignorance of what businesses are facing. Small businesses do have cash-flow problems, they have ever increasing stress levels, and they do have many things that are inhibiting their business growth. All of these things have been caused by this Labour Government\u2014a Government that doesn\u2019t understand or care about business and what is required to make this country thrive and so workers can be rewarded for their efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EI listened to Minister Andersen\u2019s disingenuous introduction alluding to really caring about business, but we look at the absolute nonsensical wage rises: 44 percent increase in minimum wage and a 7 percent increase in productivity. Extra stat holidays: $450 million to businesses. Extra sick leave: almost $2 billion to business, and where Andrew Little just said, \u201COh, it won\u2019t hurt them very much; that\u2019s OK.\u201D The list can go on. All of these additional costs are being sucked up by businesses who have had to continue to try and make a profit to pay their staff. They\u2019ve contributed to our high inflation and the struggle with the cost of living that New Zealanders are dealing with at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223e43c957-a2f1-43cf-baf7-5b77358e038b\u0022\u003EThis bill won\u2019t help small businesses a bit. What will help is some common sense and genuine support for those hard-working employers by voting ACT on 14 October, and we don\u2019t support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002239e68cbda5114678940a50750c9e5505\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239e68cbda5114678940a50750c9e5505\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to make a quick reflection, listening to previous speakers on this bill, that it is often those politicians that deride so-called identity politics that will start their statements saying things like \u201Cas a merchant\u201D or \u201Cas a business owner\u201D and then go and talk about the \u201Cwoke reign of terror of identity politics\u201D. I don\u2019t really care whether anyone was a previous business owner if they\u2019re perpetuating systems that drive inequities. And I think it\u2019s important to ground our debates in this bill and what this is trying to achieve, which is greater transparency in terms of business-to-business payments, with an attempt to even the scales between big and smaller players.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Green Party does support the intent of this bill and particularly its attempt to bring forward greater transparency when it comes to this. In terms of alleviating unethical practices from bigger players, I don\u2019t think anyone has said in their speech that this is some form of silver bullet, and when it comes to the practices of the big players, there are many other levers this Government could be using, such as an excess-profits tax, which would actually even the scales even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut when it comes to the comments made regarding the select committee, I do want to acknowledge that there obviously were challenges with an even number of people from Government and Opposition when it came to recommending whether this bill would go through or otherwise. But, from what I can understand, both parties were engaging with submitters in good faith, and that ultimately, I think, was one of the key things that needed to happen. So, as I said previously, the Green Party does support greater transparency in business practices and will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00229be9f6be9fd14e0c9c6dc38ce53f9e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229be9f6be9fd14e0c9c6dc38ce53f9e5e\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my privilege to speak on the Business Payment Practices Bill, second reading, this afternoon. Like any good local MP, and there are very many across the House, we all worked hard to engage well with businesses in our electorate. We know that the majority of businesses in our electorates are small businesses, and I\u2019m very proud of the work that this Government has done to support small businesses over what has been a very difficult period and challenging time in the last few years, particularly over the pandemic. But those of us who would have spoken to their small-business owners will know that delays receiving payment are hurting their cash flow, increasing their stress in their business in already difficult times, and inhibiting their business growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThis bill is about disclosing practices like the amount of time it takes for entities to pay their suppliers. It requires large firms\u2014and we are talking large firms; those with an excess of $33 million annual revenue\u2014as well as Government departments and other large entities, to publicly disclose information about their payment practices. They will need to report on their payment practices twice a year if they have that level of revenue, and that data would be stored and made publicly searchable by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI said that I\u2019m proud of the work I do as the local MP working with my local businesses, ensuring that they get the resources and support from not only our Government but I encourage future Governments to do the same. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00221d80453068a945509a60841295109c5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d80453068a945509a60841295109c5e\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Manuia le aoauli. Thank you for the chance to pass comment on this bill. It\u2019s suggested this bill will lead to businesses mitigating reputational risk by improving their business payment practices. We know that New Zealand Aotearoa is a nation of small to medium sized enterprises\u201497 percent of our companies. They\u2019re doing it tough, coming out of COVID\u2014that lockdown for years in Auckland\u2014coming out of the regulatory chill but getting frozen along the way, finding it tough to get staff with all the immigration bottlenecks in arcane, Orwellian employment legislation. Unless you\u2019re a recruitment or consultancy practice in Wellington, waiting for a call from your local bureaucrat, business can be a tough gig right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThis piece of proposed legislation is out of touch, out of mind, out of control, and demonstrates the wrong Kiwi SMEs. Apprentices paying for ute taxes for more Tesla subsidies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225452f3dbce1749e38e350457f8c7a640\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re going to cut those credits too, aren\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2d95613bee547519a46068de2e10b3e\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014especially in Central Auckland, Helen. More tax for SMEs running their affairs through trusts. Now more compliance for business\u2014effectively, a new tax; what I\u2019ll call the \u201CB2B\u201D tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe real undercurrent of this bill, however, wh\u0101nau, is more control. Not only does this Government want us to suppress education aspirations or raise more tax from the hard-working people of Hamilton West, it wants to take more charge on business payment practices in a potentially parasitic manner. Our various respective committee members have feverishly paddled the parliamentary waka in a multi-partisan manner, and I appreciate there were some changes made at the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014kei te mihi ki a koutou; massive thanks\u2014but increasing the minimum threshold when companies are required to report was a great idea. I wish you all took it up further\u2014to, say, $100 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMore compliance for SMEs is just not right, and definitely not right, right now. We could have just amended the Financial Reporting Act. Instead, we\u2019ve sent the destroyer to sink business with the omnipotence of the current Government\u2019s regulatory wave. With the power of majority Government\u2014with 62 members\u2014comes responsibility to be careful with overregulating everything in business. That responsibility, and this piece of legislation, has been wielded in an imbalanced manner and deserves more caution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMembers, if this bill turns into legislation, it will worsen the cost of living crisis. The hard-working people of Hamilton West know it; ditto the people of Papakura, whaea Judith; ditto Tauranga Moana, Master Uffindell\u2014two areas often referred as \u201CHamilton North\u201D and \u201CHamilton Far East\u201D, respectively! And I caution the Government around going too far with the dictates of what is right and left\u2014I mean wrong\u2014with business. We\u2019ve seen this in the environmental space, the immigration space, and the collection of injury information around M\u0101ori, and, ad nauseum, we see it right down there in the weeds of business payments practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMy friends and peers, hear ye, hear me, we\u2019re going too far yet again in telling business how to run business. The value of big Government is one that the current Government lives by. And I remind listeners this afternoon that limited Government is something to cherish and behold. But, when you get an imbalance of K\u0101wanatanga with community and business, when K\u0101wanatanga, like the factory in The Lorax, just keeps biggering and biggering, we end up in a stylishly squishy and opaque situation never contemplated by my ancestors who signed up to the Treaty of Waitangi. Kao, kei te h\u0113. [No, that\u2019s wrong.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EOf all the problems that face SMEs, this was not one to pick today. We believe SMEs need to be paid on time, but we don\u2019t believe that this bill will achieve its objectives. We\u2019ve seen recent international examples\u2014Australia, UK\u2014where there\u2019s been no discernible improvement in payment terms by big business despite similarities in the regulatory impositions that are proposed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe cost for firms, $2,000 or $3,000 over in Aussie. Imagine putting those costs back on SMEs today, here in Aotearoa\u2014another cost; effectively, another tax; I repeat, the \u201CB2B\u201D tax. It would be a lot easier to use one of the credit assessment companies, like Centrix, to assess it in real time\u201433 bucks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau, big business should be allowed to run big business. Legislation and .govt.nz should not run big business. The Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) have stated they don\u2019t know the prevalence of the issue of delayed payment and whether practices are intentionally exploitative. I propose the question: should we be legislating without evidence of the benefits of legislation, or whether the relevant agency is not aware of the scale of the issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe MBIE proposal to build its own IT platform to employ people to collate data sounds like another recommendation from a consultant. Was it from one of the big four, an IT consultant? Folks, we can\u2019t even count the number of people in New Zealand on any given night, let alone create another IT ether\u2014like springing a leak in our multi-partisan waka and curtailing any ballast it might have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s get New Zealand back on track, people\u2014back on track. Let SMEs use the funds directly and in areas like e-invoicing and technology solutions. Let\u2019s reduce the red tape. And, as I said, way back then in the days of Victoria University law school, when my friend and colleague over there on the other side\u2014I repeat to him today: stop the war on mums and dads, stop the war on communities, and stop the war on business. K\u0101ti r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Kia ora! [Well, greetings to all of us. Thanks!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00223505bfe385a74903b16d814db60a61ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223505bfe385a74903b16d814db60a61ef\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Business Payment Practices Bill, which is a bill that will provide for hard-working business owners and will provide for an increased level of transparency. I was sitting here listening to the ACT member Chris Baillie, before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd3276c54ef94a16bff2d879d5193c03\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you poor thing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb35fcf6d0974001af2d634b98573dad\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who talked about\u2014yes, it was rather unfortunate, but he talked about the fact that members on this side of the House talk about how they used to be a small-business owner, how they used to be this, and how they used to be that. Well, unlike the ACT Party, we\u2019re not part-time members of Parliament on this side of the House. We prefer to put all of our focus into supporting our communities rather than the ACT Party, who seem to have adopted a part-time approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut that to one side, I want to acknowledge the work of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee for the work that they\u2019ve done in bringing some of the changes to the House, changes that look quite sensible: locking in a transition period for this piece of legislation to apply, looking at that first reporting period applying to those entities for which the threshold is a minimum of more than $100 million over a two-year period\u2014actually a two-year consecutive period, according to the select committee\u2019s report. But it also introduces other provisions that make a lot of sense\u2014for example, the entities\u2019 ability to separate or distinguish those invoices that might be in dispute vis-\u00E0-vis those that might be paid late. So those are just some examples of some good changes of a hard-working select committee that will make a difference to small businesses and other businesses. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3df97d850b24ef49c92d3a57aebbcf1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3df97d850b24ef49c92d3a57aebbcf1\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s lovely to be here talking about the Business Payment Practices Bill today. As we continue the theme of small-business owners, I was one also. Many years ago, I owned a small coffee business, back before coffee carts were cool. I led the way\u2014don\u2019t take that as a complete fact! For three years, I ran a small coffee cart. It was part of a lot of the other work I was doing, and it was always a challenge in terms of payment, in terms of ensuring that I got through. I would often run events for companies or they\u2019d put on a breakfast and you\u2019d turn up and you\u2019d make them the coffees. It really was a challenge. I wasn\u2019t out to make a lot of money. I was doing other work and also running a social enterprise at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhen you look at companies that are slow to pay, I was looking at the facts from Xero saying that almost half of invoices are paid late. That creates stress. That creates uncertainty. If you\u2019re financially on a knife edge, that can make or break things for you, and we don\u2019t want that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation. I was surprised to hear Tama Potaka telling us to stop telling businesses how to run businesses. Well, I would happily do that if they actually paid their bills on time, if they actually did what was right. I\u2019m not sure what this \u201Cwar on mum and dads\u201D is all about, but I think it\u2019s a war on my vocal chords and my ears, actually, when Tama Potaka was talking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis is what we are doing. It has been good to be a part of the select committee to work through this, to explore some of the options, to make some changes to ensure that we\u2019ve got it right for the sake of small business and for the sake of all business in New Zealand. Of all businesses in New Zealand, 97 percent are small. They need support, they need us to walk alongside them, and we walk alongside them with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2cfe49f0ef94b96a43a1eb6e8660f76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2cfe49f0ef94b96a43a1eb6e8660f76\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Great to rise on a Friday afternoon to speak. I can see the excitement on the other side of the House. I might need a coffee, though, soon, Mr Bennett. I hope you would bring your small business back to Parliament. I\u2019d be very keen to entertain that. I\u2019m not sure whether this bill would\u2019ve actually benefited you, because I\u2019m assuming that the people that came along and paid probably\u2014I don\u2019t know whether any of them would\u2019ve been people that would\u2019ve been captured by this. Whether that would\u2019ve picked up on that, I\u2019m not too sure, mate. But this is targeted at business above $33 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just go back on a comment I heard from Naisi Chen, the third speaker today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f901adcedafe47c2a7a06b19c335461c\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: Naisi\u2014it\u2019s Naisi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea516a5d3ba4e5391d4bee11e8104ae\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Naisi, sorry; it\u2019s Uffindell as well, I\u2019ll add that in there\u2014saying that this side of the House doesn\u2019t care for small businesses; we only care for big businesses. I would totally refute that, and I think that\u2019s just another example of gaslighting by this Government. There\u2019s a lot of wastage of gas. You know, you\u2019ve closed the gas searching, but you\u2019re using up a lot of it, and I think this is another example of it, because on this side of the House, we really do care about small businesses, because we understand and recognise that they are the engine of this country. As for saying we only care about the big end of town, I would like to mention that just last week you allocated $140 million to a very big Australian company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022149d62c04301425f8ffef05913f7ab6f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t allocate anything, Mr Uffindell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b38f14159999456ba1dd27e94ce1de71\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: In going back to this bill, for a moment there, you know, we\u2019ve heard the comments that this is not going to solve the problems that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) has defined, and it is noted that it will add substantial compliance costs. That\u2019s one of the reasons that companies out there, small businesses, are doing it so hard at the moment, that they have had an avalanche of costs put on to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThere have been significant costs, and we could look at the cost of living crisis. People out there\u2014you know, the retail, hospo, tourism businesses\u2014they\u2019re not getting the customers coming through. When I go out there and talk to people, and I do that every time I\u2019m back in my electorate\u2014I go around and visit the small businesses around the great electorate of Tauranga\u2014they tell me that since about March this year, there\u2019s been a real decline in people coming through their doors, and a lot of them are wondering whether it\u2019s even worthwhile going on. That flows on: so they\u2019re not getting the money to pay their suppliers, their suppliers aren\u2019t getting the money to pay whoever it is or whatever their costs are, and it\u2019s just an onward flow that we are seeing under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s before you take into account the significant pressures that small businesses are being placed under. They endured a significant amount of time in lockdown\u2014for my colleagues in Auckland, where I am heading tonight. My mother spent a long time in lockdown\u2014fortunately, she\u2019s not a small-business owner, because if she was, she would\u2019ve really felt the pinch, as a lot of them did. Then you add on to that the other costs they\u2019ve faced around public holidays and additional sick leave, the minimum wage constantly rising, and looking at small businesses like they\u2019re just people who have got endless pits of money and thinking that their job is to deny it from people. I totally refute that, because small-business owners aren\u2019t rolling in cash. They don\u2019t have an additional $2,000 or $3,000 a year to pay to meet the compliance under this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EAnd you look at what this compliance is going to do. Is it actually going to achieve what the intention of this is? I would significantly question that, I really would, because what you\u2019re getting here is a snapshot. You\u2019re getting two snapshots a year. People were looking at, what, accounts payable or receivable\u2014and I think my colleague Andrew Bayly put it pretty well: are they going to go on to the MBIE website and look at a snapshot in time, which may have been 5\u00BD months ago, and say, \u201COh, that\u2019s good. I\u2019ve got a really good understanding of where my business is at and where my creditors are at, or the people that owe me money or whatever it may be\u2014my suppliers.\u201D I\u2019m not sure that it will. In fact, I\u2019d actually be pretty certain that it wouldn\u2019t. An MBIE website that offers a snapshot in time from six months ago is probably not going to be the place that people will go to. In fact, I think Mr Bayly put it pretty well: there are other avenues out there that businesses can already exercise for $33 to get the information that they need, or they may just go and have a look at their own accounting software or, you know what? They might pick up the phone and just communicate to that supplier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m challenged to understand how this is actually going to improve the lot of small businesses. I\u2019d actually say, as I already have, it\u2019s going to make it a little bit harder for them, because they\u2019ve got another regulatory regime that they need to comply with, several more thousand dollars a year. You know, you\u2019ve got to allocate more time, more cost, and very little output at the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWe note that Australia and the UK have recently implemented schemes like this. Australia did it with a higher threshold of $100 million\u2014ours is $33 million\u2014and Australia is now looking to walk that back, because they are finding out that it isn\u2019t actually achieving what it intended to achieve. Actually, as Andrew Bayly said in his speech, on a lot of occasions it\u2019s leading to slower payments. So, well-intended; worse outcomes. When you see that, you leave me with no option but to oppose this, and I\u2019m glad all the rest of my colleagues have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWe also look at the operational issues around this. I mean, this doesn\u2019t just spring up in a void; you\u2019ve got to set up a new IT platform, you\u2019ve got to hire staffers, you\u2019ve got to keep the operational costs running. I think the initial start-up costs are about $3.5 million, and then you\u2019ve got ongoing maintenance costs of this regime at anywhere between $1.4 million to $2 million a year\u2014just more money dribbling out of this Government and more costs being piled on to businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221307b1e168c4481f88292f6c4cb26759\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s dribbling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022912fac8694164f7aa87863ab636144ee\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Very good question. I didn\u2019t bring a bib, but we could all get one soon. I will keep going, though. You\u2019re not encouraging me to sit down when you make comments like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019re a nation of small businesses: 97 percent of our employees are hired by small businesses, and I think it\u2019s really important that we enable small businesses to keep hiring these people. One way that you do that is that you don\u2019t keep lumping them with additional costs. That\u2019s, ultimately, what this bill is going to do, and it\u2019s going to achieve very little to no positive benefits for speeding up the payments to these people. There are far better ways to do it. We have made our case pretty strong today. This reading will be passed through; we understand that, but the National Party will oppose it\u2014so do I. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9e41e25b1eb4d8481dbbd8750c82da9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9e41e25b1eb4d8481dbbd8750c82da9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Mr Speaker, you\u2019d have to be in a pretty dark place to oppose this bill, I think\u2014especially if you believe in markets, because markets are about the provision of information. That\u2019s exactly what this bill does. This bill provides transparency. It gives the market an understanding of who pays their bills on time and who does not. You\u2019d have to be in favour of opacity and against the disinfectant of sunlight to oppose this bill, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe know, from the last speaker, in fact, that the UK and Australia have already done this; the sky did not fall in. I think it\u2019s kind of embarrassing to be from a party that speaks about the market and economics and to be opposed to something that creates good information so that businesses can make good decisions about who they choose to partner with. On this side of the House, we support the bill, we support transparency, and we\u2019re against the kind of opacity that is being argued from the other side. I\u2019m very pleased to support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223abf3dd15bd04d69aeb402618fafa456\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Business Payment Practices Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 39\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 29; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000322\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002226f184a81f07488681c7699657b44392\u0022\u003EFuel Industry Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223626eb157422499ca005ab3fbbb19f96\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022228e75aa48524a119cf21bdf8e8f8951\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022228e75aa48524a119cf21bdf8e8f8951\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: I present a legislative statement on the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247788eea02d14b96899454f3dc3fa727\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af5173ccedf0485480fa178e1556e4c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EEnsuring we get our regulatory settings right for our engine fuel markets is a key focus for the Minister\u2019s work programme. As a country, we are currently experiencing higher than usual engine fuel prices driven by the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Although these are beyond our control, we can do more to promote competition. In 2019, the Commerce Commission released its retail fuel market study. The commission\u2019s report indicated that fuel companies had been making persistently higher profits over the previous decade than would be expected in a competitive market; that there is limited competition in the wholesale markets; and that that flows through to the retail market. One of the commission\u2019s key recommendations in that report was to create greater transparency by requiring fuel companies to publish wholesale spot prices at fuel terminals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Government implemented that recommendation, and the passing of the Fuel Industry Act 2020 saw the introduction of terminal gate pricing for wholesale suppliers to make easier entry at a wholesale level. However, the commission also recommended that a regulatory backstop be introduced to deal with the risk that fuel companies use the terminal gate pricing regime to coordinate prices. The backstop could also address situations where a fuel company could exert market power at a terminal\u2014for example, where the terminal is isolated. The development of the backstop was put on a slower track to avoid holding up the other fuel industry reforms, as there are some complexities in developing an effective backstop. After experiencing high price volatility in 2022, now is the right time to introduce this regulatory backstop to give consumers confidence that increases in fuel prices are not being driven by unreasonably high margins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Fuel Industry Act has already contributed to more competition in New Zealand. The terminal gate pricing regime has supported expansion into new areas by low-price retailers such as Gull, NPD, and Waitomo. Gull has publicly stated that, without the Act, it would not be able to competitively source fuel to operate its South Island outlets and to provide competitive tension. The bill supports these trends by providing strong incentives for fuel companies to ensure that terminal gate prices are competitive and by providing insurance against commercial behaviour which chills competition and contributes to higher fuel prices. So, on behalf of the Minister, I want to thank the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee for their work and consideration of this bill, and I also want to thank those who took time to submit and provide their feedback.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis bill provides an incentive for wholesale engine fuel suppliers to offer competitive terminal gate prices. It does this by providing a process by which these prices could be regulated by the Commerce Commission after an inquiry and recommendation to the Minister. The Minister could then recommend to the Governor-General that an Order in Council be made declaring a particular terminal gate price subject to price regulation. The Commerce Commission would then be responsible for setting and enforcing a form of the price regulation. This would deter misuse of market power and ensure better competition in the wholesale market, which is expected to flow through to consumers at the pump in the medium to long term. This is a well calibrated process. It is not a return to the price regulation that was seen in days past. This is a new power for the Commerce Commission, and if the market works as it should and in line with what we expect, fuel companies should have every incentive to compete hard and avoid being regulated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe bill was referred to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on 22\u00A0November 2022. The committee received six written submissions and heard two oral submissions, and I want to thank the select committee for their work on this bill and thank those who submitted. Six amendments to the bill have been recommended by the committee to address matters raised by submitters and advisers and also the excellent Regulations Review Committee. The first was to amend the test for price regulation. The bill currently states that the commission may make a recommendation that price regulation should be imposed on terminal gate prices only if it is satisfied that the relevant wholesale supplier has posted terminal gate prices that were not consistent with what would be expected in a competitive market. To make this test clearer, it has been recommended that the text be amended from \u201Cnot consistent\u201D to \u201Cabove\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe second is to reduce the maximum period of regulation from 10 to five years\u2014this is a recommendation that\u2019s been made\u2014so that it will balance wholesale suppliers\u2019 concern regarding future market conditions while ensuring the regime is effective in terms of improved competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThird: to make clearer that the Commerce Commission must consider investment incentives. This change has also been recommended, and it would make it clearer that, when the Commerce Commission sets the price regulation, in considering whether the Act\u2019s purpose is promoted, in making that determination, consideration should be given to determining that the wholesale suppliers\u2019 incentives to invest and meet end-user demands are taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EFourth: better information-gathering powers for the Commerce Commission. It\u2019s been recommended that one of the Commerce Commission\u2019s information-gathering powers from the Commerce Act should be more broadly incorporated into the Fuel Industry Act. This will allow the Commerce Commission to require comparative information from wholesale suppliers that are not subject to the inquiry and price-setting process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAlso, some better process requirements: two recommendations have been made in that regard\u2014the first, to add a requirement for the Minister to specify a time frame by which the Commerce Commission must make a recommendation after an inquiry is triggered; the second, to clarify a requirement for the Commerce Commission to consult on draft price regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo that was a great select committee process, as always\u2014another great step to a competitive market for fuel in New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022204d1c2ffc914ccc81f098e90271d5db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022204d1c2ffc914ccc81f098e90271d5db\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00221a5217ace86843f796e0a5213f3e5c6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a5217ace86843f796e0a5213f3e5c6a\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Well, what a load of blah, blah, blah we have just listened to this afternoon. I mean, really. I mean, what are we doing having a conversation in this House about additional powers for the Commerce Commission to regulate petrol prices? We have already had a Commerce Commission review that occurred in 2018 and 2019. There are recommendations. The key recommendation that came from that was this requirement to ensure that petrol companies had to advertise the daily price at which they sell petrol to competing retailers, because that was the piece that was missing in terms of forced transparency. So that got passed. We all supported it in the House. And guess what? Since that passed in 2020, there has been improvement in competition. There has been greater price disclosure. In fact, there has been significant growth of NPD and Waitomo around the country. There is not a problem here in terms of no competition; there is more competition, and there is more price disclosure and discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYou would think that the Government might actually say, \u201CWell, actually, we\u2019ve done that job; we\u2019ll now turn our attention to\u201D\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014\u201Cbuilding a road, perhaps, or building a house.\u201D It might actually fix law and order or do something that the rest of the country is actually screaming out for. Oh, no. Now, what we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to have another process in which we\u2019re going to tie up Parliament time and tie up select committee time to see if there is an opportunity for the Commerce Commission to have powers under law to set petrol prices. What absolute nonsense. We had six submitters\u2014six submitters\u2014[Interruption] And here they are screaming at the back, going, \u201COh, but the petrol prices are too high.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYes. Let\u2019s talk about why petrol prices are high. Half of it is product cost. Forty percent of it is your\u2014not your taxes, Mr Speaker, although I\u2019m sure you, like me, find it very, very irksome when you have to pay such a high petrol price. Half of it is product cost; the rest is excise tax and the carbon emissions trading scheme price. But this is their logic of it, right? You cannot argue on one hand, saying, \u201COh, the reason we\u2019re doing this is because the petrol prices are high.\u201D Well, the reason for that is because the product cost is high and we have a very high tax regime, including 11c a litre more for those who have the privilege of crawling around in Auckland. But instead of actually acknowledging that that\u2019s the reason for the petrol price hikes, this Government, of course, decides that what\u2019s actually required is even more process, even more bureaucracy, and actually creating the power for setting prices, because regulating prices has always worked in this country! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe have this long history of Governments and products that have worked so well when some Minister and bureaucrat somewhere says, \u201COh, I know the better market price than what the market\u2019s showing; let me have a bit of that.\u201D! I mean, sometimes I wonder: where did these guys go to school, Mr Bennett? Where do these guys actually get some understanding around how the market works and how it\u2019s actually structured in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef52dc252ffd4ad28b5d6399bfec0219\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve had a lecture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da832b35be81461693819a0cf1cc6730\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, we\u2019ve already had a lecture\u2014it was Deborah Russell before, and I thought that tax response was fantastic! We\u2019re all far more elucidated because of that response earlier! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EBut, in all seriousness, we have spent a huge amount of time on this in the House. It goes to select committee\u2014we can\u2019t even agree; it\u2019s three all. We come back and the Minister gives\u2014you know, if you were listening, you would try to follow\u2014a sort of a broad assessment of why we\u2019re doing it. We do not need to do it. The competition is clear. NPD and Waitomo have been significantly spreading throughout the country. The Fuel Industry Act 2020 sorted the issue and got the disclosure that was necessary. This is just a Government who doesn\u2019t actually know how to get real things done but instead just obsesses and focuses on process and bureaucracy, because it makes them feel good when they\u2019re in the middle of a bureaucratic process because it gives them a sense of progress. Well, the rest of the country knows that, on the things that matter, they are a failure, and in 140 days\u2019 time, finally, we can chuck this lot out and get some decent Government. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f131d428d04d4289e547b2e992144a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f131d428d04d4289e547b2e992144a\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. New Zealand is a country of 5 million people. To put that into context, it is the size of New South Wales, across the Ditch, our neighbour state. It is 1.5 percent of the population of the United States of America. It is 0.3 percent of the population of China and 0.4 percent of the population of India. Our population of 5 million means that we have a very small market and that often competition doesn\u2019t happen, because of the sheer size of our market. And that is exactly what this study in 2019 by the Commerce Commission has found. Because we\u2019re such a small market, industries such as the fuel industry, such as the building supply industry, such as the grocery sector industry don\u2019t have a lot of competition in New Zealand. So that is why, when we implemented our first bill, the Fuel Industry Bill, we needed to make sure that there was fuel gate pricing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EWhat this bill has done here today is make the recommendations by the commission\u2014those who actually go out there and do the market studies; they can actually recommend to the Minister whether or not our market is working, whether or not there is competition, and whether or not New Zealanders ultimately get a fair deal at the pump. This comes after this Government has reduced our fuel tax, reduced our road user charges, reduced public transport charges, and we need to be making sure that all Kiwis get a fair deal at the pump. That is why the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee has been working very hard and making sure that this bill has all the details we need to make sure there is competition in our fuel industry. That\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002258bcf235ff7e49b7b8c5bcfb7bb4d561\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258bcf235ff7e49b7b8c5bcfb7bb4d561\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. That last speaker, Naisi Chen, said that she wanted to bring competition to the market, and at the same time she\u2019s saying that we\u2019re too small a market and the Government has to dictate what the price is. So how does that work? How do you bring competition to the market if you, as the Government, dictate the price?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78fe8784b604e488e7e307777058124\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what it says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2f3a0c8d974996a43a945057d41961\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s not how it works. That\u2019s what they\u2019re saying. Those were her exact words. Her last sentence was, \u201CWe need competition in the market.\u201D Yet, at the same time, they\u2019re passing a bill in which they dictate the price. So how does that work? How does it work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, the Commerce Commission is one of the evils that we see in this country. The Commerce Commission has got everything wrong it\u2019s ever done in the last 20 years. There has been no decision that that Commerce Commission has made that has been right. They will go and get huge budgets from the Government; they go off and do these silly tricks where they go down and look at things. They never actually come up with anything sensible, and the only times they do something is when they try and block business getting ahead in New Zealand. That is the history of the Commerce Commission in New Zealand. We should not be trusting them with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Commission need a good shake up. They need it and they haven\u2019t had it for 20 or 30 years, and they definitely need it. I don\u2019t believe we should be empowering them any more than they are empowered now. They are a body that has not been shown to have any economic sense in the last 20 or 30 years. They have stopped many mergers and acquisitions that actually would have been good for New Zealand. They have actually stopped a lot of things that have been in the best interest of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we need them to actually act on something, they don\u2019t do it. They walk away; they write a report and say, \u201CThis is too hard.\u201D That\u2019s the Commerce Commission in New Zealand. And bless their socks. You know, I don\u2019t even know who\u2019s in there now, but they need a bullet and they need to be sorted out and they need to be put into their place because the Commerce Commission has had a really bad history in New Zealand. I believe that this legislation is another attempt to do what is happening in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d09910d7a744bda4db515bc5bec914\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Your face says it all, Penk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253982f85769249a88aaf6527b94c02f9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can talk about that Minister over there that\u2019s just signed off the racing legislation, hasn\u2019t he? Yeah. It was metaphorical, too, and I apologise if anyone takes it the wrong way. But that member has signed off the racing legislation in the last week. We haven\u2019t had an explanation, we haven\u2019t seen that come to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fde949ab45b476ab45f1553b994ac75\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s have an explanation of the bill then, shall we, Mr Bennett?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6edfbcded8a488eb8878724e5410277\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This is a bill where the Government will have total control, effectively, in setting the price. If it wants to have competition, it doesn\u2019t have total control on setting the price. It should enable competition to actually happen, and that\u2019s one of the things that isn\u2019t in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo, if the Minister promoting it, and the members of Parliament on the other side, want to push it forward, then they should actually do something about enabling competition in this bill. I\u2019m sorry if I went too far in my comments earlier, but the reality is the Commerce Commission is not the body to do this. But, at the same time, Government regulation like this is not the right approach, either. So the National Party does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022292cb13d667d4884916a5cb29968a141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022292cb13d667d4884916a5cb29968a141\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m rising to support this second reading of the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill this afternoon. As someone who sat on the select committee and so was able to listen and learn and know a bit more about the legislation than the other Mr Bennett in the room, I\u2019d just like to highlight, I guess, that for Gull, in terms of for them and the conversation that was had, they\u2019re saying that without this Act it would be completely impossible for them to source and to operate their services in the South Island and to provide that competitive tension down there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo, if a company like Gull is saying, \u201CWe need this\u201D, I\u2019m willing to sit up and listen. They have been disrupters in the market as we\u2019ve seen Gull move its way around Aotearoa New Zealand over the last two decades. When they have moved into places and spaces\u2014for example, New Plymouth several years ago\u2014we see that it did challenge the fuel price within the New Plymouth market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBeing a member of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014it was a pleasure to be on it\u2014I mean, it was so controversial that we had six written submissions and two oral submissions! Good legislation. No need to talk more on it. It\u2019s clear. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bea4541ec894578a5c40f150ba254c7\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: [Walking into Chamber] Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5ecbff04fd485c952f7b2bf39e60fe\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll indulge you, Mr Court, because it\u2019s Thursday afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022793fd49624374486b6d04cc9407740f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022793fd49624374486b6d04cc9407740f7\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do appreciate your indulgence. One of the things about being an ACT MP is that there\u2019s only 10 of us, and so that means we have to work much, much harder than any of the other people representing Kiwis. So, if I was late to the House here this afternoon to speak on behalf of ACT on this Fuel Industry Amendment Bill, you must forgive me. But I promise you I do come well prepared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOne of the problems that we have in New Zealand is that we\u2019re a very small country of 5 million consumers at the end of a very, very long supply chain\u2014very, very long supply chain. What that means is that, when we need petrol, diesel, or other liquid fuels like jet fuel, we\u2019re dependent. At one point, it was the Marsden Point Oil Refinery, but now we\u2019re dependent on imports. So we have to look at what is important to New Zealand\u2014affordability of fuels; security of supply, of course\u2014but also, what is the opportunity for businesses that supply into New Zealand to come to their own arrangements with customers so that they get the best value?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, when I drive around Auckland, I use an app called PriceSpy. What that tells me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70d90fde6fb4471913ad68fc375eeec\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Gaspy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a4ba71213a48ecbd1561c6294cef95\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Gaspy. PriceSpy is another tool that you can use to compare the price of consumer goods on the internet. And what Gaspy, or \u201CGasp-eye\u201D\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d56a348e5394bac819d0405377adce6\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Gaspy, it\u2019s called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114bf03af426499db04a4051f7e55689\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Gaspy, I\u2019m told\u2014tells you is that across Auckland, there is a difference of around 40c a litre between retailers supplying petrol into the Auckland market. What that tells you is there is competition and that consumers who shop around can find a good deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, what this bill proposes to do is, essentially, establish a regulatory mechanism that would require those who wholesale fuel to New Zealand\u2014so that is, the fuel comes in ships, it\u2019s offloaded, either into fuel storage tanks or maybe taken by truck and trailer to fuel storage depots in other parts of the country\u2014like Hamilton, for example; you know, a bit further away from the ports\u2014and from there, it is distributed to retailers. What this bill proposes to do is to put up a sign outside the fuel depot where all the storage tanks are saying how much the petrol will cost that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIf I was running a big construction business and I thought, \u201CCrikey, there\u2019s a depot down the road with some storage tanks where I can go and buy diesel at a certain price\u201D, where else could I go and compare that? Well, in Auckland we have the Wiri oil storage terminal; that\u2019s where fuel is stored in Auckland. There\u2019s a few tanks scattered around in other places, like up the T\u0101maki River. There\u2019s no more fuel storage tanks down at the Port of Auckland anymore\u2014they\u2019ve all gone from Winyard wharf. So where is the competition in the wholesale market? Where is this practically able to be achieved if there\u2019s only one place in town I can go and pick up diesel if I have a tanker? It doesn\u2019t make any sense to introduce a wholesale regulatory system\u2014or, potentially, force these businesses to publish wholesale prices\u2014when there is no practical way of going and accessing a competitor\u2019s product at a certain price. There is only one Wiri oil storage terminal in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThen we think: well, how do businesses and consumers get the best price? Well, if you\u2019re using a very large volume of fuel, if you\u2019re running a commercial trucking business, if you\u2019re running a construction business and you\u2019re putting 200 or 400 litres of diesel into a whole fleet of diggers and bulldozers every day, then you can go to your fuel supplier, whether it be an ExxonMobil or an Ampol, Z, Chevron, Texaco, Waitomo fuels\u2014whoever operates in New Zealand\u2014and you can organise for bulk supply of fuel to your yards, to your depots, and use that in your machines. And I guarantee, if you\u2019re buying $1 million a week, you\u2019re going to get a much better price than if you\u2019re buying 100 litres a month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat ACT would say is: look, if there is a problem in terms of how much petrol and diesel costs when it\u2019s imported into New Zealand, and if the Government thinks there is an excessive amount of profit being made by these fuel suppliers\u2014when you look at, well, crikey, it can come into New Zealand at about a dollar something a litre but it\u2019s being sold at $2.80\u2014ACT would say the Government needs to look at itself, needs to look long and hard in the mirror, because almost half the cost of petrol at the pump is fuel excise duties, GST, and, of course, charges under the emissions trading scheme (ETS). Everybody who fuels up in New Zealand pays for their emissions\u2014on diesel, petrol, whatever else they choose to use. Jet fuel\u2014I don\u2019t know if they use that in cars; maybe in places like Hamilton and West Auckland, where I\u2019m from! They pay for their emissions\u2014right?\u2014under the emissions trading scheme. It\u2019s somewhere around 18c, 19c, 20c a litre. It might be a bit less now because New Zealanders have found a way to reduce their emissions at a lower price and the ETS price has come down. But almost half the cost at the pump is actually cost imposed through regulation: fuel excise duty\u2014that money taken from motorists at the pump\u2014that\u2019s supposed to be spent on roads, although only about a third of it is spent on capital projects, actually building new bridges and new capacity, new motorways. About a third is spent on operational expenditure, or maintenance of roads, and about a third is shandied off to spend on KiwiRail and bike bridges and all kinds of other things that our Green and Labour politicians like to boast about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo, look, what ACT would say\u2014it\u2019s quite simple\u2014if the Government was concerned about reducing the price of fuel and making it more affordable, it could do a couple of things. It could stop making stupid regulations that force companies to hold more fuel storage onshore and impose all of those additional costs on them\u2014that are coming through another bill that\u2019s been introduced to the House today: the Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill\u2014which could require these companies to build tank storage all around New Zealand, even though I\u2019m not sure if Labour realises we\u2019re only a few days\u2019 sail away from Queensland and other big refineries in Australia. It could stop punishing Kiwis by spending a whole lot of money on stuff like bike bridges over the Auckland Harbour\u2014$100 million spent on designing and planning a bridge that will never be built. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868ca0328f75443681b257521bfc3ad3\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not $100 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc62269559594928b5beeceb715030ef\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not $100 million my colleague and transport planner Julie Anne Genter says, and she does agree with me, it is a total waste of money. We can differ on the nickels and dimes, but it\u2019s a lot of money\u2014it\u2019s a lot of money. If they were to reduce their wasteful spending on transport projects that no one asked for and that aren\u2019t needed, then maybe they could liberate us from the crushing burden of fuel excise duty\u2014and maybe, if we take it one step further and we think about what it would look like to transform the road funding and financing system. In fact, it\u2019s interesting: Julie Anne Genter and I have been getting on so well at public debates that I think it\u2019s probably a good time to start an ACT-Green cross-party alliance on transportation planning! I\u2019m pretty sure that we could do a deal. I\u2019ll give Aucklanders two or four more lanes, and we\u2019ll create an extra lane for Julie Anne to ride her bike when she comes to Auckland. I reckon that\u2019s a pretty good deal! Even Chris Penk, who lives out west, where I\u2019m from, agrees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EBut here\u2019s the opportunity: instead of beating up the fuel companies and telling them that they\u2019re overcharging, and threatening to set prices, what the Government could do is say, \u201CLook, we\u2019re going to actually transition from collecting fuel excise duties at the pump to a road pricing system that\u2019s fair, where users of the road network pay per kilometre and per tonnage and how much they\u2019re actually doing damage to the roads if they\u2019re running heavy trucks. We get rid of fuel excise duty altogether, except for the bare minimum. We transition to a system like that over five or six years.\u201D That would give Kiwis time to adapt. That would also reveal the fact that a lot of the money being taken by the Government on fuel excise duty isn\u2019t being spent on roads. ACT would show how you can actually reallocate funds from kilometres travelled back to the roads that need it. We think that\u2019s a much better way. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00224613fb3de503494db0868145138f837c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224613fb3de503494db0868145138f837c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is supporting this bill. I, unfortunately, was not on the select committee that heard the submissions, and we don\u2019t have a member on that select committee, but we did read through the report and the submissions. It was quite interesting to hear that fuel companies, like Gull, are supportive and think these are really important changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EJust in reference to the debate that\u2019s happening here in the Chamber this afternoon, I do think it\u2019s worth covering some of the territory that the National and ACT parties covered in their speeches, because, I guess, they\u2019re showing their true colours, which is that they\u2019re quite happy to protect corporates profiteering and they want to blame the Government for price rises, even though the Government, basically, invests in things that benefit all of us. So, really, it\u2019s a case of wanting to maximise private profit, in their case, and not social good and public good. They use this mask of pretending to understand economics, and claiming that economics is in favour of the approach that they\u2019re talking about, when, of course, it\u2019s not, because anyone who\u2019s studied economics knows that one of the challenges for a market economy is monopolies, duopolies, and oligopolies. That\u2019s exactly the reason why we need regulation and things like the Commerce Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn fact, if you go way back in time to Standard Oil, it was broken up into multiple oil companies. They\u2019re still able to profiteer and they\u2019re still actually having excess profits at a time when their actions are directly responsible for the catastrophic climate events that are hitting many nations across the world, and that\u2019s something that we need to change. And that\u2019s something that, if you get outside of New Zealand\u2014and I know those members have probably never been outside of New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s, basically, mainstream that people think that it\u2019s not right that big corporates should be making massive profits for trashing the planet. That\u2019s not good for the economy. We need a planet, to have an economy; we need a civilisation. All of that\u2019s under threat from climate change. I guess that their world view is just so limited, but they\u2019re, basically, on the side of big corporate profits and against ordinary people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo why shouldn\u2019t we cut petrol tax? Petrol tax is what we use to build our public infrastructure and to maintain it. So of course we think it\u2019s OK\u2014if the price of carbon is reflected truly in the price of oil, then the price of oil at the pump will rise, but if it\u2019s going towards a public good, which means that people know that the Government is investing in alternatives that are going to make it possible to get around their community without having to rely on a car and oil, then that\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s precisely why it makes sense to use the National Land Transport Fund to invest in things like the lower North Island rail improvements, where there was a business case that the benefit-to-cost ratio was well above one; it was almost two. So you get a benefit from that. The majority of the benefits were to people using the roads. So I know it\u2019s hard to understand a system where you don\u2019t need to use the train to benefit from it. In fact, there were greater benefits happening for the people who use the roads, because other people were, then, not using the roads; they were using the train. The single-biggest imposition on people trying to drive a car is other people driving cars. So, if you can reduce the other cars on the road, that\u2019s how you\u2019re going to make the biggest difference to people who need to use a truck or a car to get somewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, yeah, to bring it back to this bill, this is an important role for the Government and for the public to take, to make sure that people aren\u2019t being price gouged. We should be proud and happy to invest in our public infrastructure and taxes, so that\u2019s why I was surprised to hear the National Party member being against the idea of\u2014he\u2019s for the fuel companies making excess profits, which, of course, we know they were, but he\u2019s not for investing in our roads, in our road maintenance, and in our road safety; or better yet our rail network, which provides benefits to the road network and to the climate and to the people who use it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I think that\u2019s fundamentally the difference. We need to call out the fact that the language of economics that\u2019s being used to defend an approach that\u2019s really about letting a small number of people make excess wealth and excess profit and get more than their fair share, rather than all of us working together for things that benefit us all. That is the fundamental difference. I hope that those watching this debate at home can see through the very shallow lines from National and ACT. Like, if they get into Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022088e938a243241f4868ff2dfac471863\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s just let the people at home know what\u2019s in the bill, shall we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258aea44a27674ade99e9fb1d85fb765d\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Well, what is in the bill, Mr Speaker, as we\u2019ve been talking about, is some really important implementation of recommendations from the Commerce Commission that\u2019s going to result in, hopefully, fairer fuel prices. But it\u2019s important to acknowledge that, yes, some of the fuel price is fuel excise duty and tax, and that\u2019s a good thing because that\u2019s what enables us to fix the safety of the roads, to maintain the roads, and to build new transport infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s good when you\u2019re paying the fuel price and you know it\u2019s going towards something you will use or that may well benefit your community; that\u2019s good. But do you want to pay it to offshore shareholders? No. You don\u2019t want to have to pay more than you have to to offshore shareholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe whole point of the Commerce Commission is to try and make sure that we do have fair pricing. But the National Party, of course, are the defenders of the monopolists and the corporate raiders and they\u2019re all for excess profit going into private hands. Privatise the benefit, socialise the losses\u2014that is the approach of the right, and they will use an excuse of economics to defend it, when they do not understand economics in the least. They don\u2019t share the values of public benefit, public good, all of us pitching in together, all of us working together to solve the climate challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022 data-id=\u00226ac2f0aae4474bd0bfc0cab0d5839c13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ac2f0aae4474bd0bfc0cab0d5839c13\u0022\u003ESTEPH LEWIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is my pleasure to rise and take a call on the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a bit confused. Does the National Party support transparency and want transparency, or do they not want transparency? Because surely if they were genuine about wanting transparency, they would support this bill\u2014but they\u2019re not. So I want to put it on record to the small-business owners and business owners, to the individual families struggling in Whanganui right now, that National are voting against a bill which would introduce greater transparency to the fuel market; which would mean that we would finally have an answer as to why we are having to pay 30c to 40c a litre more at the pump than towns 20 minutes down the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003EBecause, to date, nobody can answer that. It\u2019s not due to fuel excise and it\u2019s not due to transport cost. It does not cost 30c to 40c a litre more to transport fuel to Whanganui than it does to Marton, to Turakina, or to Sanson. This bill will introduce transparency, which will finally require the companies to explain the differences and the variations in price between regions. Can you tell me: why does fuel cost more in Whang\u0101rei than it costs in Northland, yet the tankers go straight through Whang\u0101rei to get to Northland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003EThe answers that we are being given do not add up. That is why we need this bill to ensure that we have a competitive and transparent fuel market\u2014where competition is failing in the market. Then we will finally have a mechanism to intervene. On behalf of my constituents in the Whanganui electorate, who are frustrated and fed up with paying high fuel prices with no reasons for it, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002206ae40d0366846258bb43bbcdd23533d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ae40d0366846258bb43bbcdd23533d\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s been very hard to understand and follow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5374599174d40c3a153a74ebb0c812d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014a five-minute split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d05ff25b2d42858b79f99d8c758e91\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I can assure you that it won\u2019t be all of that. It\u2019s been hard to understand all the arguments being made across the House by the left-wing parliamentary colleagues of ours today. I\u2019m not sure if that\u2019s because I\u2019m too dumb or too smart to understand them. But, in any case, it seems there\u2019s a real lack of clarity between such basic concepts as profiteering or simply making a profit, which, funnily enough, is similar to the distinction between those who are merely politicking and those who are engaging in the relatively respectable profession of politics. Those who are interested, from a policy point of view, want to understand what the unintended consequences are of policy that might be well-intentioned\u2014and I don\u2019t doubt that it is\u2014but which nevertheless will have negative effects for those, whether it\u2019s in Whang\u0101rei or Whanganui, or Whangateau for that matter\u2014completing my little alliterative triplet, and finishing in my own electorate, which is always a good place to be, and to which I look forward to returning very, very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe concept of a command and control economy whereby people in this House\u2014again, with the best of intentions\u2014wish to make life easier by dictating things from Wellington but nevertheless end up undermining even their own arguments in respect of the value of competition\u2014and, of course, freedom to compete between private market entities is important. Government does have an important role to play in some aspects of our national life, but setting the price where there is a competitive market that should, in the absence of pitfalls and barriers\u2014and I mix my metaphors, I know\u2014but with Government not interfering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221167b08072d748c395a6175196a35fa2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Genter, without commenting on the previous speaker, about the coming together of ACT and Greens, could I suggest that, if you want to carry on this conversation, you do get a little bit closer together, so that it\u2019s not quite as distracting to the rest of the House. Sorry, Mr Penk. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c003f5014ca40649f095abaa78fa3d7\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. No need to apologise whatsoever. I thought we were going to have some sort of telegraph system. I wasn\u2019t sure if it was going to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b4b9ecd87e44698affe1e78fc5e2ae5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I could see it was putting you off, Mr Penk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab50096e58284e76907b1bfec16ccf18\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: It was putting me off\u2014that explains it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf2ee130ec44fe189c9ed31b6af3fe5\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re pretty off-putting!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e66c4b178734e72a47d2aa025550dd3\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5136394d8ed4934b0618fa526e67c45\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Green and ACT\u2014we\u2019ve heard it today!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b83ea50a7d4460dbb8b782c6e5d693b\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828bb30bb5d949f6a15b2535efd13069\u0022\u003EAnna Lorck\u003C/span\u003E: Green and ACT\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df6ec5aa2334df2a71b4cba62bad4df\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Green and ACT? Well, I wouldn\u2019t like to comment on any \u201Ccoalitions of chaos\u201D with which we are not involved, but that\u2019s for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnyway, suffice to say, that at this very moment, the geniuses that brought us the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act and the unintended and adverse consequences associated with that are now telling us to trust them. It\u2019s all good, they know what they\u2019re doing, they\u2019re from the Government, and they\u2019re here to help! And, in the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, those are some of the scariest words in the English language. The bill, therefore, is to be resisted\u2014opposed\u2014and therefore I cannot commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fed1127013d24669b5dc5617db6bf104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fed1127013d24669b5dc5617db6bf104\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 June. Thank you for your work this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230601a476e4668c7245a2a9c5550a18850472000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"